UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOeZ_9OMe1E

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmW0537FZ8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNckN0ygtnU

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8&feature=emb_logo

[mapuc]

Not to "paint the devil on the wall" but will it be as bad as they predict ?

Markus

[Catfish]

You have to see the people who were responsible and are now in charge of the whole mess, people like Farage, Cummings, Johnson, with a little help from US Bannon of Breitbart "fame", tell you it will be "great" and you can look forward to a beautiful future.

From the more reasonable people you will hear that "no one can know for sure".

BS! Of course you know what can and will go wrong, from most predictions to what is already happening. No one of those in charge in England even understands what the EU does, why, let alone which treaties are in effect. All we hear from Johnson has been propaganda, exagerrations and plain lies. Johnson was for staying in the EU before he smelled his opportunity to become PM.
It would have been more honest to make Farage PM, and let him take the blame and sort out what will inevitably happen now.

Like in the US the worst problem is that obviously a lot of the population believes in populistic nationalist pseudo-patriotic "Scheisshausparolen" (which b.t.w. is german and can be translated as crapper paroles. Which is far too nice a translation of what this means in german, and what is 'brexit').

But frankly, i am tired of the four-year-long good-bye, please let it end. Sit back and enjoy, if you can.

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIcn-7tX7Ng

[Catfish]

This is actually very good, or at least i did not know this or never asked those questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkBnkBT_x-M

[skidman]

^Excellent and revealing. And of course some double standards criticized here apply to other countries with a colonial past (France, Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands) as well.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZD_x2JkvyA

[Jimbuna]

The UK and EU have agreed to carry on post-Brexit trade talks after a call between leaders earlier on Sunday.

In a joint statement, Boris Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said it was "responsible at this point to go the extra mile".

The pair discussed "major unresolved topics" during their call.

The two sides had said Sunday was the deadline for a decision on whether to continue with talks, with the UK set to leave EU rules at the end of the month.

The leaders agreed to tell negotiators to carry on talks in Brussels "to see whether an agreement can even at this late stage be reached".

They did not say how long these latest talks would continue, but the ultimate deadline is 31 December, and time must be allowed for the UK and European Parliaments to vote on any deal that emerges before then.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55292890

So, on and on it goes :doh:

[mapuc]

Do you think Boris Johnson will resign if there's no agreement ?

It seems like there is a tradition among the British Prime minister to step down, when they have failed in their crusade.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I doubt it Markus, at least not whilst he leads a majority government wit a clear majority supporting Brexit.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f0bLzzCs4Q

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPvdlX194Bo

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-RJFPQES8I

[Catfish]

^, well a deal would be good for the UK, and the EU.
This kind of deal though is a lukewarm fail from a four year old beginning to the "glorious" end. I hope the undermining of EU democracy was worth the stunt.

https://i.imgur.com/CIMNWo1l.jpg

[Jimbuna]

I'm still hopeful of a deal but should that happen it will be a deal watered down by both sides imho.

[Skybird]

I'm still hopeful of a deal but should that happen it will be a deal watered down by both sides imho.
But the "deal" on the table right now already does watering things down beyond recognising the exit in Brext anymore. Access to the common market is only to be had at the price the EU sets, and I can even understand that, its a membership privilige, and it is only to be had at the cost of becoming a member and following the clubhouse's rules. This was always clear - or was it not? To me it was. And the price is compliance with EU rules and regulations and demands reachign far beyond pure trade and bartering. And that is incompatible with "exiting" from these rules.

This simple, really simple contradiction is what makes the whole theatreshow so absurd. They are negotiating to create an illusion that gets away with giving the appearance of being a success in the meaning of what Brexit originally meant. But it doesn't.

If Brexit is meant to actually mean what the term implies, there can be no "deal" then. Any deal compromises Brexit's meaning.

Lets not have the illusion that the EU is a fair trading partner if trading with it on WTO terms. It knows the keyboard of playing the full spectrum of manipulating import and export quotas by formally correct but still hurting measures, and custom regimes. And as many countries in the third world can tell, it uses them, especially when it comes to protecting agricultural interests. And after the past years, there will be plenty of emotionally driven motivations to let the UK have it especially hard in any further relations, if no deal is acchieved. Especially a French desire this is, but not only.

[Catfish]

I can do without some Johnson's shabby theatrics, thank you, and the EU can as well.

[Jimbuna]

But the "deal" on the table right now already does watering things down beyond recognising the exit in Brext anymore. Access to the common market is only to be had at the price the EU sets, and I can even understand that, its a membership privilige, and it is only to be had at the cost of becoming a member and following the clubhouse's rules. This was always clear - or was it not? To me it was. And the price is compliance with EU rules and regulations and demands reachign far beyond pure trade and bartering. And that is incompatible with "exiting" from these rules.

This simple, really simple contradiction is what makes the whole theatreshow so absurd. They are negotiating to create an illusion that gets away with giving the appearance of being a success in the meaning of what Brexit originally meant. But it doesn't.

If Brexit is meant to actually mean what the term implies, there can be no "deal" then. Any deal compromises Brexit's meaning.

Lets not have the illusion that the EU is a fair trading partner if trading with it on WTO terms. It knows the keyboard of playing the full spectrum of manipulating import and export quotas by formally correct but still hurting measures, and custom regimes. And as many countries in the third world can tell, it uses them, especially when it comes to protecting agricultural interests. And after the past years, there will be plenty of emotionally driven motivations to let the UK have it especially hard in any further relations, if no deal is acchieved. Especially a French desire this is, but not only.

I agree mainly but the British Lion will bite back if needed.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuS31oe54m8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gtTqZZ2CW8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5rsT4W3Ds

[skidman]

I agree mainly but the British Lion will bite back if needed.

The British Lion's mouth may be big, but it is toothless. So when the roaring pauses you can hear the antelopes giggling.

[Catfish]

Old, but well worth reading.
"It was never about Europe. Brexit is Britain’s reckoning with itself"
And this is very.. dommage.

" ... in truth nobody has won anything – it is a losing game all round.
For all of this is the afterlife of dead things. One of them is Brexit itself. When did Brextinction occur? On 24 June 2016. The project was driven by decades of camped-up mendacity about the tyranny of the EU, and sold in the referendum as a fantasy of national liberation. It simply could not survive contact with reality. It died the moment it became real. You cannot free yourself from imaginary oppression."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/europe-brexit-britain-state-politics-fit-for-purpose#img-1

[Jimbuna]

The British Lion's mouth may be big, but it is toothless. So when the roaring pauses you can hear the antelopes giggling.

I like that analogy :):03:

[Jimbuna]

A "narrow path" has opened up for the UK and EU to strike a post-Brexit trade deal, the president of the European Commission has said.

Ursula von der Leyen said the "next few days are going to be decisive," with just two weeks left before the UK quits EU trading rules.

She said differences over enforcing a deal are "largely being resolved," but talks over fishing remain "difficult".

PM Boris Johnson told MPs there was "every opportunity" to reach a deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55330599

Are these the first murmurs of a last minute deal and why does fishing remain such a major priority?

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHHQuF3oIDQ

[Catfish]

Well i have said i won't hold my breath with the UK leaving until december 31st, 23:59 and 59 seconds. And i did not even mention the year.

[Jimbuna]

Cabinet minister Michael Gove has said the chances of the UK and EU agreeing a post-Brexit trade deal are "less than 50%".

Earlier, the EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, tweeted "good progress" had been made on a deal.

But Mr Gove told MPs "regrettably the chances are more likely we won't secure an agreement".

Talks in Brussels are continuing on Thursday, with two weeks to go before the UK leaves EU trading rules.

European Parliament leaders have set Sunday as a deadline for them to see the text of any deal agreed by the negotiating teams.

The senior MEPs said they would "not be rushed" into approving an agreement at their end, and would have to see the text by the end of the week if they were to sign it off by 31 December.

MPs from the UK Parliament have been warned by Mr Gove they could be called back during their Christmas break to ratify any deal that emerges from talks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55347723

Perhaps best if somebody simply flips a coin.

[Jimbuna]

The UK and European Union have announced formal agreement on how the new Irish Sea border will operate in January.

Senior representatives of both sides met at the Joint Committee on Thursday.

They confirmed an agreement in principle which Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove and EU commissioner Maroš Šefčovič reached last week.

Separate negotiations to reach a post-Brexit trade deal are still taking place.

A special deal for Northern Ireland, known as the protocol, formed part of the Withdrawal Agreement which took the UK out of the EU earlier this year.

The protocol will keep Northern Ireland in the EU single market for goods even as the rest of the UK leaves it at the end of this month.

The two sides had been negotiating on how the protocol should be implemented.

Among the key features of the agreement are a trusted trader scheme which will mean the vast majority of goods being shipped from GB to NI will not be at risk of having tariffs imposed.

There was also agreement on the role of EU officials in Northern Ireland to oversee aspects of the protocol.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55354451

[Jimbuna]

There are "just a few hours left" for the UK and EU to agree a post-Brexit trade deal, says Michel Barnier.

Speaking in the European Parliament on Friday, the EU's chief negotiator said it was "the moment of truth" for the two sides to come to an agreement.

He said there was still a "chance" of a deal, but the "path is very narrow".

The comments follow a warning from Boris Johnson that a no deal scenario was "very likely" unless the EU position changed "substantially".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55358963

Please, just bring a swift end to this one way or the other.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Iftdfda1Y

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErt205ZMKU

[Catfish]

“You know you are from an Irish Catholic background when Withdrawal Agreement means something entirely different..”

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZlBPsnWZPs

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-neaW1pnk0

[Jimbuna]

Knowing how bolshy the French can be with regards to strikes and industrial unrest could mean we are in for some fun and games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T87LX7RFf-U

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBTvi0gRLdM

[mapuc]

I have an idea regarding this fishing issue which seems to be a tuff thing in this ongoing negotiation

1a UK let other EU countries like Denmark, France, Holland a.s.o. hire area(s) which belong to UK(forgot the word it starts with te and ends on water.)
1b UK gives these EU countries the right to fish a certain amount of fish(quota)

I know it's a bad idea

Markus

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XPziDIx3kA

[Catfish]

I have an idea regarding this fishing issue which seems to be a tuff thing in this ongoing negotiation
1a UK let other EU countries like Denmark, France, Holland a.s.o. hire area(s) which belong to UK(forgot the word it starts with te and ends on water.)
1b UK gives these EU countries the right to fish a certain amount of fish(quota)

This is what we have. The UK gets a certain amount of money so that ships of some EU states may fish certain quota in certain waters.

I have also written here that France, The Netherlands and Denmark have built fishing fleets for this prurpose, for a lot of money.

There are also laws in effect that forbid an overfishing, the latter has been introduced by the EU and has been supported and agreed to by the UK, like 99,7 percent of all EU treaties.
So those treaties you mentioned are in effect and will be broken by the UK at january, 1st 2021, while threatening EU fishing boats with "cannonboat diplomacy" from this date on.


It seems those videos Jim loves to post here are from (Impressum) "Google Ireland Limited, Gordon House, Barrow Street, Dublin 4, Irland :haha:
So Google and Elizabeth M. Cunningham and Nicholas Leeder are responsible for the content (what i doubt). There is no one responsible for this channel to be found, or better it is hiding behind "Google". I have asked Google for more information on this channel, no answer up to now.

[UglyMowgli]

Scotland want to go back to EU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn8HDMin-8E

[Jimbuna]

Hey, don't blame me for the videos, I love comedies :)

[Jimbuna]

Scotland want to go back to EU



I've absolutely no problem regarding independence for Scotland despite the fact they were told the previous referendum was a 'once in a generation' event.

However. should a referendum take place and be successful they should also take with them their fair share of the national debt which is now at an all time high as a consequence of the current pandemic.

They would also have to adopt the Euro as a currency because it is the Bank of England who underwrites/guarantees the Pound Sterling.

Upon entering the EU Scotland would be a net receiver so the likes of Germany and France would have to dig deeper into their pockets.

I believe some of the above has previously been adequately pointed out by Skybird.

[Catfish]

I take it Scotland will decide after there has been a deal or no deal brexit.
Brexit is not about reason or economical advantages as we all have learned, so all should have the freedom to make their own decisions :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Agreed but I believe certain criteria, finances and debt should be sorted beforehand could be wrong but I believe if Westminister refuses it would then need legislation to be created by the Scottish Parliament.

[UglyMowgli]

If Scotland get independence what about Faslane? UK will have to move her SSBN/SSN elsewhere, going to cost a gigatic huge amount of money unless they find a deal with the Scott.

[Jimbuna]

If Scotland get independence what about Faslane? UK will have to move her SSBN/SSN elsewhere, going to cost a gigatic huge amount of money unless they find a deal with the Scott.

True that plus Scotland won't have a navy or an air force, just a couple of army regiments.

[Skybird]

so all should have the freedom to make their own decisions :yep:
As long as everybody pays for his own bills and does not expect to get bailed out by somebody else now or in the future: sure, no objection then from me.

However, if the Scots want more money from the EU as they will pay in, they can stay where they are.

[Catfish]

What about Poland, Hungary, you name it? Not paying, not respecting basic values or international law, and blackmailing the others?
I guess Scotland could just live on Whisky export when i look around :D

[UglyMowgli]

Fisheries will be a great add to the EU.
And whiskey is less than 10% of the Scotland exports.

Scotland is the only country in the UK to have a positive export balance

[Skybird]

For the present, I am strictly against adding more weak members to the EU that just want to get fed more than they can give back, we have problems enough already, and adding more weak members does not make us stronger or better, only weaker and more vulnerable.

Regarding Poland or Hungary, they should not have been allowe din in the first, like Greece back in those days, I would not cry to loose especially Poland, their take from the budget is hilariously big, bigger than that of the next three net takers together.

A company of weak with weak, makes just a bigger company of weak, and a mixed compnany of weak and strong, makes a parasitical company. Only strong and strong, makes a strong company. Weak members are only nice to have in times of conflict, when you need cannon fodder to get sacrificed to save your better batallions from getting slaughtered.

Not nice to say that loud. But its true. The EU is a paper tiger, therefore. And it is collapsing in slow motion. I have just set up a threat with a link to a movie on the destruction of money. When that movie's last chapter materialises, the EU flies apart at all directions simultaneously. And no other nation in Europe will have lost so much values and investements and currency than stupid Germany - with nobody being there to bail us out this time.

[Skybird]

Meaningless babble. Another time limit has just been vaporized:

"It is understood there is likely to be a decision before Christmas on whether or not a deal can be reached"

Wasn't it said "this Sunday"...?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55381322

Is Johnson pushing it to the extreme so that parliament shall have no time to read the fineprint before being demanded to just nodd it off blindly? After all it is over 700 pages. If so he may have placed the bet without taking the EU parliament into account. They too said the insist of havign the time needed to actually read, digest and debate it.

[Catfish]

Wasn't that four years of time for talks?
What exactly did Johnson or his team do all this time?

[Skybird]

Wasn't that four years of time for talks?
What exactly did Johnson or his team do all this time?
Not to mention Barnier and his team!

[Catfish]

At least they were doing their homework
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations/negotiating-documents-article-50-negotiations-united-kingdom_en

[Skybird]

Nützt ihnen aber auch nix. Nützt gar nix! :O:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTJLrVRCH0

[Catfish]

Nützt ihnen aber auch nix. Nützt gar nix! :O: [...]
:haha: Well sometimes wisdom can even come from poker: "Never bluff a monkey!"

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JroWWFZuAMY


A German telling the obvious truth in the lion's cave. Not often to be seen.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JroWWFZuAMY


A German telling the obvious truth in the lion's cave. Not often to be seen.

Very brave or very stupid? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWLsSN_rHw

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7EI6HVfxY

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ2rbvjvIh8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZtcIXIqwm4

[skidman]

Very brave or very stupid? :hmmm:

Very Nazi. He's an AfD bigmouth nothing but cottonwool upstairs idiot. Claims to be a professor, but isn't. A right-wing conman and the prosecution is after him.

[Jimbuna]

Very Nazi. He's an AfD bigmouth nothing but cottonwool upstairs idiot. Claims to be a professor, but isn't. A right-wing conman and the prosecution is after him.

Ah, right, so the answer is 'stupid' :yep:

[Catfish]

Not necessarily stupid, but posting it with the intention for destabilising the EU and pushing nationalism everywhere - so the "new normal" :ping:

[Skybird]

Very Nazi. He's an AfD bigmouth nothing but cottonwool upstairs idiot. Claims to be a professor, but isn't. A right-wing conman and the prosecution is after him.
Did not know that, hes a nobody for me. evidence, links?

[Skybird]

Well, skidman is silent, still.

Lets see what I found myself.

He is emmber of the afD, but I found nothing on him being a Nazi, however, if you are not letf enough these days, the left easily defames you as a Nazi. Nazi is who is not left enough, that simple.

He lives and works in the UK. He holds a doctor's degree in philosophy from Oxford university. He is a "reader at a university in London", works as barrister-at-law, and in his party is seen as an expert for European law.

By British standards he indeed is more or less what he claims (a reader is something like a professor without fixed chair in the academic branch), a barrister-at-law is a "Rechtsanwalt". The problem is that he titulates these titles in Germany, and in German as well, and German laws are against this, since professorship in Germany exclusively is being given by a German university. Or so they claim. That until the introduction of new academic title orde rin the UK a reader equalled a professor, so far is beign ignored in Germany.

He may exaggerate a bit, but it is obvious that enemies of the AfD use the opportunity to crack down on him for anything but fully transparent, clean reaosns, but because as an AfD man he is fair game (skidman even called him a Nazi). When the immunity in the EU parliament was lifted, at the same time a call by Poland to lift immunity of Guy Verhoefsstadt for having iillegally mixed into internal affairs of Poland by demonstrating in Poland, it was blocked: Verhoefsstad is an EU bulldog, and Poland is a favourite target for the EU, so the outcome was predictable.

But all this is relatively irrelevant. Relevant is that the claimed wrong man said the right thing - and that makes the right thing that he said not any less right. If an AfD man would claim that 2 plus 2 is 4, it would be attacked, too.

Granted, however, on many occasions AfD people indeed make fools of themselves for sure.
Not having their emotions under good control, they often overshoot the rhetoric targets with their aggressive adresses, making themsleve sound like angry apes. I find them quite amusing due to this, the entertainment value is as high as with Trump.

To call everybody opposing socialism and the EU a Nazi, is typical extreme-lefty overkill-rhetoric - and the reason why the hostility towards the EU is growing and growing everywhere. Not everybody likes the continental Gleichschaltung, and there are damn good and solid reasons to not wanting it.

https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2019-05/gunnar-beck-doktortitel-europakandidat-die-gruenen


I do not know this guy any further, never heard of him before.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2BcuerKqoQ

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ydJWWaAzTo

[Catfish]

Very 'funny' to call opposition against the AfD just of all a "left Gleichschaltung", trying to turn it all around eh? You are literally quoting Mr Hoecke if this tells you something, and is typical AfD and Nazi jargon indeed, rightly cut off instantly at any university that has a reputation to keep.
"To call everybody opposing socialism and the EU a Nazi, is typical extreme-lefty overkill-rhetoric - and the reason why the hostility towards the EU is growing and growing everywhere. Not everybody likes the continental Gleichschaltung, and there are damn good and solid reasons to not wanting it."
So? And this is extreme righty overkill to denigrate treaties and doing trade together, as "Gleichschaltung" and to even compare to what Hitler did. The EU is far from a "forced integration of all social, economic, political and cultural forces into the unified organization of a dictatorship, which ideologically appropriates and controls them."
The reason for the hostility against the EU is nationalism and tribalism, and a profound lack of knowledge what the EU really does, only echoing the yellow press and rabble rousers. No one with a half pound of minced meat betwen his ears would call this a "dictatorship".
The EU has a lot of flaws and is still better than anything i currently see anywhere else.

[Skybird]

Very 'funny' to call opposition against the AfD just of all a "left Gleichschaltung",
I haven't. But the EU project is about Gleichschaltung. The recent clash of th EU court and Karslruhe just being the latest illustration, denying that constitutional courts in countries have a right to object to the eU court and come to different findings/snetences. In pricn90poe this means all such courts shall be shut down. We can follow with natiuonal apriolasients and shut them down, too, since to wide degrees they aonly can nod off EU decisionbsk, but have no right anymore to object to them.

Think of it. National parliaments in many political fields have no rights to object to EU demands and decisions and laws anymore, are only left with the only option to wave things through. So stop the national voting!

Rockstar was wrong when implying that all and evertyhign already is there. But he would be right if implying that the EU wants to get there: on that there can be no doubt. The EU is not yet unconditionally a one-super-state. But it wants to get there, and better yesterday than tomorrow.


The Euro is a Gleichschaltungs-project as well.

[Catfish]

I am not sure what this is even about, if Karlsruhe can defy the primacy of EU law, so can Warsaw or Budapest.

[mapuc]

Why is it that:

When a person support or is a member of a right wing party. This person is automatically a racist and a nazi.

When a person support or is a member of a left wing party. This person is automatically a violent person.

I have seen(read it)on several occasion among my fb-friends.

Markus

[Catfish]

A bit OT here?
Why is it that:
When a person support or is a member of a right wing party. This person is automatically a racist and a nazi.
No, he/she is not automatically, if anyone is a member of a right wing party.
On the other hand, ask yourself if you often find nazis and racists on the left side of the political spectrum? It is all about over-simplification since humans try to make sense or get a meaning out of human action. But often enough, there is none.
When a person support or is a member of a left wing party. This person is automatically a violent person.
Not necessarily. In the US, recent riots against racism were blamed exclusively on the left, but imho this is not correct. The riots took place against a perceived/felt disparity in the police behaviour towards black people vs. white people, and this is not a politically 'left' reaction, but one about injustice and perceived racist behaviour.
Again, over-simplification, about the rioters and about the police.
One individual behaving bad or wrong, can give a whole organisation a bad name.

[Skybird]

The EU court rercently attacked the german constitutional high court over its ruling that the endlessly buying of bonds is illegal state financing. Karlsruhe also said earlier that no international court can demand that the German parliamentary mechanism of budget controlling can be demanded by international courts to be bypassed, since this would violate the consttitional basic orde rof the German state and parlamentartismn. In other words the EU court implies that states have to surrender to the EU rule and effectvelöy right now have to end their idn ependent parlamentaris system. Whcih the begs to ask why people even should be asked to go vot89ng in their natiosn anymore, if all decisions are to be imposed on them via the eU court of the Eu commission. So just receb tly the EU court attacked Karsruhe and said that no natiopna high court has the right to put rules by the Eu ocurt into doubt.


The EU court always has been Brussels tools to poush its icnreaisng demands of power over domestic legitmiation of natiopnal powers through, on all levels. Thats why they alsop want to have the EU court a strong foothold in the UK. It snot about trade disagreements later on. Its about still being able to subjugate the UK later on. The eU court is neither indepenbdent, nor neutrla. It was founded with the itnention to help propagate and materialise growing EU power of national states and parliaments. Its about enforcing disempowerment at the national level and reigonal voter level, nothing else. Parliaments hall be just alibis to keep the crowd obedient.


An outrageous pressumption of power. It is BS like this that brings more and more people up into arms against this power construction named EU. In all social classes, in all countries.

Thats why I think we will see violent riots and even civil-war like regional rebellions and unrest, even inter-state military conflicts before the next 20 years are over. Trump's US also hint at that direction, both for the US and for European states alike. That kind of empotionalise dmass hysteria as he uses as a steroid drug to poush up his fans will find its way to Euroope as well sooner or later. And maybe that is what is needed to indeed overwhlem the EU tyranny. Quesiton is what this vioelknce in the imminent after time tiwll give birth to. But whatever that is, maybe we need to accept it as the price fpor transition. I dont know, but itz should be clear that the eU will nto accept to be pished aside by legal play and fair use of optiosn and rules to limit its claimed self-.legitimisation. The Brexit negotiation tactics by Brussel are revealing. Unfortunately for Brussel, the wide public notices it, too.

If we want to escape that fate of villent European decline, we need to fulfill two conditions: we must get the FIAT money desaster under control by replacing it under controlled terms and conditions and returning to a commodity currency, and we must destroy the EU completely and get rid of it, after rebuilding a healthy monetarian system we then can opt to build a free trade zone instead - and leave it to that, for heaven'S sake.

And we must keep the Chinese and the Americans out. China seeks increasingly to spread its globla powergrab anddistrubuting digital Chinese money control mechanisms and basing depending traders/other countries on it, leaving them under China'S spell and in dependency from it like the dollar controls the world in the past. And the Americans must be thrown out because they will stick to their unhealthy dollar regime, after all it were the US violating a debtors' liabilities when they destroyed Bretton Woods and told the world America no longer intends to pay back its debts in value. And we mjst learn this one lesson: wher eone Truimp has ahppened, he or somebody like hiom can easiyl happen again. I currently think it will already happen in four years. Trump himself, or somebody like him.

I think Eujrope will not do any of this. That, and Islam, is why I call it game over for Europe. I have given it up completely already years ago.


https://www.amazon.fr/Que-Faire-Vivre-d%C3%A9clin-lEurope/dp/9492161834/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&dchild=1&keywords=david+engels&qid=1608517463&sr=8-2



https://www.amazon.fr/Was-tun-Leben-Niedergang-Europas/dp/3956211421/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&dchild=1&keywords=david+engels&qid=1608517424&sr=8-4

[Skybird]

And so another deadline has just been passed, with a new deadline issued, followed by the perspective of that being rendered meaningless, too.

How could one trust and/or respect persons whose words mean so little - nothing, to be precise?

This all is beyond the meaning of the term "hilarious". A new word is in need to be invented.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rj4-nTHEow

[Jimbuna]

Ministers have ruled out extending the Brexit process into 2021 amid calls for it to be delayed due to the Covid crisis and the deadlock in trade talks.

Opposition politicians urged the post-Brexit transition period to be extended beyond 31 December, saying it would end the current uncertainty and reduce the chances of a damaging no-deal outcome.

But Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said this would "add fuel to the fire".

He urged people to prepare for the changes happening anyway on 1 January.

Post-Brexit trade talks are continuing on Monday, in Brussels, after negotiators failed to reach an agreement over the weekend.

The EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier and his UK counterpart David Frost held talks on Sunday, but key issues remain unresolved.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55390304

[Skybird]

I think its possible that Johnson tries to get everybody focussed on fisheries to distract from watering down other things for examplel regarding the socalled level playing field and EU court jurisdiction in the UK, who knows. By claiming ultimate victory over fisheries he maybe hopes to get evberybody jubilating and forgiving that EU regulations will cut deeper into UK sovereignty than could be covered under the term and meaning of "Brexit".

I have a different view on fishing rights anyway. If the UK claims sovereignty over its waters and would simply ban other fishingboats, the catching quota could be dramatically reduced if only Brititsh boats could fish and the fleet is not increased. Then the British waters could become a protected reserve where fish stocks could build up again, because fishstock across the oceans have been dramatically overfished and the fish populations are under immense pressure, and are declining fast. With the current catching quotas even increasing due to ever more aggressive Chinese fleets in the pacific region, and fishes also being under pressure from warming of the waters and shifts in the pH level that work against higher life forms, it is indeed desirable to have the first maritime protection zone near Europe worth the name.

There is practically no table fish species in the North atlantic that is not over exploited or depleted to dangerous levels. Only exception: Atlantic Herring offshore Canada, and - obviously - aqua cultures. And if every body now jumps on the herrings, its situationc could chnage within one year again, too.


Too much, too much, too much we demand.

WE ARE TOO MANY

[Jimbuna]

I think its possible that Johnson tries to get everybody focussed on fisheries to distract from watering down other things for examplel regarding the socalled level playing field and EU court jurisdiction in the UK, who knows. By claiming ultimate victory over fisheries he maybe hopes to get evberybody jubilating and forgiving that EU regulations will cut deeper into UK sovereignty than could be covered under the term and meaning of "Brexit".



I'd hate to think that was the reality of the situation but either way, any agreement has to be agreed by Parliament, not Boris and in so doing would destroy the Tories as an electable party for decades.

I'm still hoping for a fair deal and an end to the madness, stubbornness and stupidity currently being displayed by both sides but any agreement must respect UK sovereignty.

[Skybird]

If the eu would want you to get a fair deal, you already would have it since many months, or would have agreed to your signalling regardign Canadian trade conditions.

They want to bind you.

[Catfish]

It is all a conspiracy.

[Jimbuna]

Well, blame the EU :)

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMUYV4i716g

[Catfish]

The UK could try a blockade, since we are all so evil. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

You'd need a lot more than four fishery protection vessels :)

[Skybird]

I see several candidates possibly threatening to leave.

France, onc eht epopulaiton thinks its beloved socialism is driving against the wall. Actually it is driving against the wall riught now,m but the oublic perception of it is lagging behind, kind of.

Italy, once debts and possible conditions for further credit taking beocmes so unsympathetic that they think they simply dodge the obliogaiton to pay debts back by leaving tzhe Euro as well and leaving Germany and othe rnet payers alone with their claims these countries cannot enforce to get paid out.

Greece, for simliar reasons.

Spains, for similiar reasons.

Netherlands for the reasons explained in the video.

Maybe Finland, for being sick of seeing others getting thrown money at while many years ago the Finnish took it into their own hands and accepted some heavy uncomfortablities to get themselves out of their bad debts situaiton back then, and now , after their sacriices back then, they should pa yout others for free...? I could understand if the Fins one day would be seriousl pissed.

I could understand if some of the altic small satates would be oissed as well, for they also endured quite some suffering to brign their fincial management and eocnomy into shape - somehtign that france, Italy, Greece since xyears and decades refuse to do, expecting to get bailed out by Germany and others.

Who likes parasites taking free rides at the costs of the others, give a hand sign please!

What - nobody?

Its all about the remaining time of the Fiat money system. Once the core meltdown makes it imploding in all clearity, its game over for the EU. Until then, the eU will maximise the damages in an attempt to win some more strokes of breath before it dies nevertheless.

The trophy for the most stupid nation then will go - to Germany, I have no doubt.

[mapuc]

I do not know the people in those country, but if they are like people in Denmark and Sweden-Then a exit from EU is very, very far away.

Reason !? These people say one thing but put their vote on parties or politicians who at most is critical towards EU-Not against it.

Markus

[Skybird]

There is a very important thing that sets both Denmark and Sweden apart from the countries I mentioned.

Sweden's debts before Corona were around 39% of its GDP.

Denmark's debts before Corona were about 34% of its GDP.

These days, such "low" debt levels sound almost paradisic.

German debt level before Corona was around 60% of the GDP.

All before Corona:
France almost 100%, Italy: 135%, Greece: over 180%

The UK, for that matter: 86%

All debts are explicit debts only, not implicit debts (the latter being higher by several factors).

The lethal desease Europe is sufering form is that thos eocutnries with the highest debts have the loudest voice now and the decision majority in both the EU and the ECB directors board. The takers can vote down the givers any time. Guess what they do!

[Jimbuna]

More than 1,500 lorries are stranded in Kent waiting for the UK-French border to open.

Talks to reopen the crossing are ongoing, after France shut the border amid fears of a new Covid variant in the UK

Measures agreed by PM Boris Johnson and President Emmanuel Macron will be announced later and come into effect from Wednesday.

Retailers warn unless the border is opened soon there may be disruption to supplies of fresh produce by the end of the week.

[Catfish]

Meanwhile people in Europe can all look forward to what happens after january 1st, so once more thanks to brexit.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Jp0VYYjfo

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBkgilsyWI

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHy3J6aWLdI

[Catfish]

https://i.imgur.com/25C0Hs2l.jpg

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl6xwzD-h34

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUozx6Nu9WY

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uej27NokHW4

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWrTzRJX2Og

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3f--Zcr8Q

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cPrYI5GdY8

[skidman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3f--Zcr8Q


Nicolas Bay, one of Marine Le Pen's trucklers (Rassemblement National). His mouth as big as his ignorance. What a shame this ultra right-wing BS gets posted here. Really disappointing.

[Catfish]

^ Well LePen does not deviate much from Farage's rhetorics, or what you hear from Widdecombe and some other brexiters
"Amusing" how they destroy the view the world had, of Britain.
I admit i did not believe what i heard and saw in those last four years.

[Skybird]

One hour ago, first German state TV propaganda channel ARD and its main news show Tagesschau made it sound as if the UK and the EU have practically reached an agreement, saying - quoting my memory - "Apparently the EU and Great Britain have reached an agreement on the controversy of fishing rights. Reports from Brussels say that the talks could be concluded this evening."


And I sat and thought What-the...?

I hope it is wrong reporting. After all, ARD and ZDF are state propaganda channels, ennobled by calling them "public legal Radio": overpriced, enforced, biased towards the official political view and poltical correctness, and very tendentious.

( The private TV channels's news are not any better, however, but at least they do not enforce getting paid by de facto taxes raised from households. The TV programs in germany all are extremely synchronised in their opinionated news reports. A diversity like in America CNN: leftist, NBC: centrist, FOX: extreme right, plus others like CBS or ABC, in Germany is non-existent and also unimaginable. They all have the same bias. )

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55422729

Apparently its true. They do a deal even over fisheries and the level playing field.

I can see this only have become possible by Johnson once again betraying his former claims and "convictions".

If I am right, he then would have betrayed Britain three times over Brexit. First on his claims and reasons during the referendum (which were mostly lies), then for the second time over him signing the deal which mostly followed May's original draft and already was not half as much an exit as the word Brexit made people belie, and now for the third time by falling back from positions on the level playing field and fisheries that he posed with as being "non-negotiable". Because I do not believe for one minute that the EU has given significant ground on these, especially the level playing field. To get Britain following the rules the EU has explicitly designed to prevent competition, was an utmost priority for the EU. No chance the EU has given signficant grounds on this voluntarily. No chance. Challenging tax competition from right offshore the continent? Not with the EU.

Seen this way, Johnsons at least remained to be true to himself.

[Jimbuna]

^ I suspect you are right and it is being broadcast here in the UK that an announcement of the deals details may be made by lunchtime.

Any deal would still need to be voted on by Parliament so that should be a treat to behold :O:

[Jimbuna]

Right on cue as expected :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLn9_EactiI

[Catfish]

^ The annual resurrection of the Nigel :03:

[Skybird]

^ I suspect you are right and it is being broadcast here in the UK that an announcement of the deals details may be made by lunchtime.

Any deal would still need to be voted on by Parliament so that should be a treat to behold :O:
And more rendering meaningless the EU and British parliaments and declared former legal rules. They now want to bring the treaty into effect WITHOUT parliamentary approval BEFORE the treaty gets effective. So that they have all time they need to get it weaseld, cheated, corruopted through afterwards.

It starts to feel to me as if they indeed have managed what I said four years ago already: stealing Brexit by hollowing it out until its just a sound, but no meaning.

"Nobody leaves the family." At least not alive.

[Skybird]

Labour announced they will back any deal, apparently in an attitud eof "no matter what". This means that Brexiteers and rebellious Tories are very unlikely to get it stopped. There will be no battle in parliament worth to be mentioned, if some may make noise - it seems to be already decided.

With amdocument of 2000 pages relased just in time for christams I wouold claim that most will nod it off without even having properly red it.

What a shabby outcome after these years of hype and drama. Simply shabby. British politics should feel ashamed.

Johnson failed during the referendum. He failed in signing the May treaty. He failed in handling Corona appropriately . He failed in signing this "deal". There will be a lot of candy-floss and sweet cream covering the core of this deal form all sides, but if one knows the eU wel enough one can have no doubt that the EU pushed through its main demands one way or another. And the nature of the matter is such that this is irreconcilable with the meaning of exiting the EU.

[Jimbuna]

Call me biased but if Labour accept it regardless of the content it is them I will hold accountable mainly.

Hopefully this will end up being Boris swan song.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbB1HNieKE

[Jimbuna]

Deal is done...Press conference set for 15:00 GMT

Here is the government's statement: "Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal."

"We have taken back control of our money, borders, laws, trade and our fishing waters

"The deal is fantastic news for families and businesses in every part of the UK.

"We have signed the first free trade agreement based on zero tariffs and zero quotas that has ever been achieved with the EU.

"The deal is the biggest bilateral trade deal signed by either side, covering trade worth £668bn in 2019.

"The deal also guarantees that we are no longer in the lunar pull of the EU, we are not bound by EU rules, there is no role for the European Court of Justice and all of our key red lines about returning sovereignty have been achieved.

"It means that we will have full political and economic independence on 1st January 2021."

"A points-based immigration system will put us in full control of who enters the UK and free movement will end.

"We have delivered this great deal for the entire United Kingdom in record time, and under extremely challenging conditions, which protects the integrity of our internal market and Northern Ireland’s place within it.

"We have got Brexit done and we can now take full advantage of the fantastic opportunities available to us as an independent trading nation, striking trade deals with other partners around the world."

[Skybird]

You could put it in polite wishy-washy like the author in this article.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nach-der-einigung-mit-bruessel-boris-johnson-ist-londons-kaiser-ohne-kleider/26748636.html

Or you speak out the obvious truth plain and simple: Brexit got defeated, the UK wanted to jump like a tiger, but landed like a bedside carpet. It will still be bound by EU rules, but have no more say on forming them. On ly exception: the financial sector in the city of London.

Johnson pissed against the wind. Now the Union Jack has a fourth colour in it.

Victor in all this: the EU. Awful, instead of delivering it a blow, it has been strengthend. In the future it will be even more difficult to stop its accumulation of powers.

[Moonlight]

^ Boris has capitulated from what I've heard today, and the EU have given him a good rodgering over the negotiating table for all the trouble he's caused them over the last few years just to rub his nose in it.
All the minute details will come out over the next few weeks and a lot of people might not be happy about the sell out deal he's gone and done, put a flak vest on Bozo I think you might need one. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

You could put it in polite wishy-washy like the author in this article.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nach-der-einigung-mit-bruessel-boris-johnson-ist-londons-kaiser-ohne-kleider/26748636.html

Or you speak out the obvious truth plain and simple: Brexit got defeated, the UK wanted to jump like a tiger, but landed like a bedside carpet. It will still be bound by EU rules, but have no more say on forming them. On ly exception: the financial sector in the city of London.

Johnson pissed against the wind. Now the Union Jack has a fourth colour in it.

Victor in all this: the EU. Awful, instead of delivering it a blow, it has been strengthend. In the future it will be even more difficult to stop its accumulation of powers.

I'm not so sure the above is entirely correct, especially if you read the government statement above your post.

The devil will obviously be in the detail so I'm going to wait and sift through the details as they are announced in the coming weeks.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQs4vvFtEEU

[MGR1]

From initial reports it seems reasonable but, as Jim wrote, the devil will be in the details.

Although from a Scottish perspective one of the little devils has already appeared:

Have fish quotas had their chips? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-55436204)

At least one item has been left out of the deal, and deliberately so. Seed potatoes are not included, while "ware" potatoes are. Ware potatoes are the ones consumers buy and boil, or roasted with other trimmings with the Christmas turkey. Seed potatoes are sold to farmers in warmer climes, where yield on potatoes is affected by year-round bugs and disease.

With its colder, wet climate, Scotland gives potatoes a disease-free start in life, and those seed potatoes are exported to Mediterranean countries, to replenish perpetually depleting production. North Africa has the biggest customers, while 20,000 tonnes - around a fifth of the UK's total exports - have gone to the European Union.

The reason given, in a letter to the agriculture sector seen by the BBC, is that the UK has not complied with the EU's demands on "dynamic alignment".

Why is this significant? Voila:
So when it sought a product that would put pressure on the UK government, it alighted on one that is grown mostly in the counties of Perthshire, Angus, Aberdeenshire and Moray. What do they have in common politically? They are where you're most likely to find Scottish Tories. Put crudely the EU are going to use the spectre of Scottish Independence as a stick to beat the UK Government with over trade.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Skybird]

I'm not so sure the above is entirely correct, especially if you read the government statement above your post.

What do you expect from a government to hear? "We bogged down and had to give ground, we must still obey their basic rules on labour, minimum taxes for the industry, state subsidies and environmental laws, and we must comply with their standards, while we will not have a word on formulating these in the future, and when they make them being tighter we have to obey, we must give them way more access to our national waters than we promised you we would allow"...?

No, that of course is not what they tell you. Instead they tell you a success story. And like Boris painted the future in brightest colours over the past four years, he again paints the future being bright and colourful now, two thumbs up.

But in the end, netto, all in all the UK lost more than you gained as far as your relation with the eU is concerned. You still sit with many basic obligations, while havign no rights to influence these anymore.

Macron says he is satisfied, and that Europe's strategy paid off. This alone should alarm you. There was no way possible to have an agreement that fulfills most of the UK's claims and conditions that at the same time would please the French.

Fact is the UK got defeated in fisheries, on the level playing field, border regime at Gibraltar. You got a draw on the question how to solve disputes in trade, by calling up an arbitral tribunal (how that works has not been said so far, so there might be new disputes or even hooks and traps in the fineprint).

All the time you have no more word on future ecological and economic regulations on labour, production, trade. But you must obey these rules, althoiugh they are not made by you. Seen this way, Farrage is right: you got yourself another, much more disadvantageous EU membership treaty.



Enjoy "sovereignty", Johnson style. He did what he always did: leading you astray, posing as a victor. But he is a blender, not a victor. His body height should be reduced by one head length.

[Jimbuna]

For me the most important things were to rid us of the ECJ, tariff-free trade and a return to controlling our own borders but give it a year or so to see how everything pans out after the dust has settled.

[skidman]

Funny how the deal is discussed in terms of winning and losing.

From an economical perspective both sides are losers. Especially when looking at the services sector the deal is rather spongy and open to interpretation. I'm still expecting some of the city boys to move to Belfast.

Regarding political culture and dignity the UK has delivered an outstanding example of how a country can go to the dogs in just a few years time. When talking to relatives, friends, colleagues and customers in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and France about Brexit (Starting with the lies the leave campaign was made of, the embarrassing sessions in the HoC, to BoJo's disgusting dodges) we almost never can agree to which extent the UK will suffer or benefit from leaving the EU, but we all agree the UK has lost reputation to a great extent.

A side note: BoJo has announced yesterday the UK will not longer take part in the Erasmus program for student exchange, because it is "too expensive". We see: Brexit is a poisoned gift for the older generations who erroneously believe sovereignty will make future decisions somehow easier/better and a catastrophe for the younger.

[Skybird]

In 2017 twice as many foreign students went to British universities than British students went to contientla univeisties. For British students, in net copmparison visiting British universities was more expensive thjan for foegn students to visit the same Birtish universities within the Ertasmus program. This calculates bad for the Briotish side, therefore, so it is understandable that they end it. After all, it is no European or foireng, but British univerisites. Europeans can still visit, but for the samer costs as British students.

The eu could pay compensation for European students in Britain. But already said that it will not do that. And in all seriousness - why should it in the first? If I want to study in another country - why should somebody else pay for me? I have to make sure I can pay for myself - or stay in my own country where I pay taxes.

So basically you are saying that you criticise the Birtish for no longer paying the difference for Europoean students, compared to British students.

I recall that Austria did something comparable. After years of many underqualified Germans fled to Austrian universities and "flooded" them ("Deutschenschwemme"), the Austrians have limited access for Germans to the most demanded Austrian universities. Since the education was and is in principle free in Switzerland and Austria, the more than quadrupling numbers of NC-fleeing Germans in the past 15-20 years at Austrian univeristies was a problem in so far as these Germans did not stay in Austria to work there and use their degrees for working in Austria (that way feeding tzhe costs of their acadmeic training in Austria), but returned to Germany after university. Austria had all the cost, but no profits from this.

Erasmus is a program that targets culktural desires and goals, but eocniomically it makes little sense, esoeciaoyal for tzhois eunioversities that are in hgihg demand, and thei histing nations: more costs than benefits. Economically it makes little sense - and somebody has to pay the bills. Why should the tax payer in one nation pay for the costs caused by students from another nation?

[Catfish]

I would not connect the visiting of british (english? UK? where do you get those numbers.. Kopp Verlag?) students with german or UK students.
First there are of course more german/EU students than UK students just from the population of all those countries (27:1), 2nd there are not so much english students, numbers have declined in the last years, but now are going up again in 2020. Higher education must be a real threat for the brexiters.

Just a year ago:
"Boris Johnson says the Erasmus scheme isn't under threat. Do you trust him?" Better not as we see.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jan/16/boris-johnson-says-the-erasmus-scheme-isnt-under-threat-do-you-trust-him

In the 1980ies we had a lot of english students in Göttingen, an often heard comment was that no one imagined how much better studying quality and general scientific background and discussions were in Germany, compared to hearsay in England. We were all young and had not much experience, of course.
I was in Cambridge for a short time, and while preciseness and spirit of science were on par, contact to professors and professional discussions were lacking a lot. It is much more "verschult", did no find an english term for this. There was also a bit of arrogance and distancy, never outspoken of course, all very polite, traditional, and cold.
I was not in Oxford for studies, but i guess not much people would be able to study there without financial help, at least not until they at least made their pre-doc exams and already had made themselves a name. Certain universities of course like to embellish themselves with "established" names, not only in England.
A friend of mine prefrred to go to Madrid/Spain instead of the UK via ERASMUS, but of course this all was a long time ago and only personal experience.

Just one more comment: Studying in England was and is costly, it is not anywhere "free" as we are used to here. It is or was also a lot about international understanding and get to know each other's nationality and points of view better, and while i bet the young still want it and are interested, a minority of older conservatives being in power has spoilt it for them. So this ship has now sailed, and i can only hope young people will give those a thorough bashing in the next years.

[Skybird]

The Uk has some of nthe best universitie sintb eh world, what cnanot be said abiztu for exmaple Germany, so why would you expect to see many Brits studying in Germany? Personal coaching by tutors is more more intense in the UK, than at German or Austrian universities.

The Swiss ETH Zurich and EPF Lausane are the only European uiniversitries breaking into the phalanx in this oist, as an exmaple.

The Uk has five entries.

Germany, France: none. And the Germans lose ground mpre and more.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/QS_World_University_Rankings

Not much different here:

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2020/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

There is more reason to want to visit a university in the UK, then wanting to visit any in Germany. And the language is not even the problem, Engoish evrsus German or French. Its simply is the quality, reputation, and personal coaching by tutors.

Whether the immense costs, that now leave many finished candidates in high debts, are justified by themselves, is something different, but that is a different discussion (that we already had some years ago). Its too much buying just a title form a renowned adress.

[Catfish]

^ "QS world university rankings", ah. Who is in charge of this? This is what you read, but not how it is.
From my personal point of view, with admittedly not a whole study, it was worthwhile and interesting. But "better"?
And why is that all about Germany and England? The ERASMUS project is where the whole of Europe is partaking - without the whole of the UK now. ERASMUS+ is worldwide.
A real problem is of course that especially Germany adopted this ridiculous anglo-saxon bachelor and master system, a system designed to bring out the worst; but hey why should only they do things wrong? :03:

edit just read about a "Turing scheme" being introduced by Johnson in exchange, a UK-kind of ERASMUS+ project. I hope that studying abroad will not be perceived as a "gross indecency".

[skidman]

I think you got a point here. From my experience as a junior researcher, not a student in the UK (Sheffield / Glasgow) I'd say the Anglo-Saxon way to make the most of their findings is first and foremost a very clever way of publishing them. Especially the English have refined the techniques (some would use the term 'tricks') to enlarge their scientific footprint in order to make sure they are noticed.

For the undergraduate students the university provided a very controlled and protective environment with close contact to their tutors, that much is true (and at the same time somehow weird for a German who was used to organize and plan for himself and on his own). Once they graduated some found it really hard to address tasks like time management, or not sticking to concepts that had proven unsuccessful.

I wonder what a ranking of universities is good for. It is clearly beneficial for those that depend on fees paid by foreigners or donations granted by wealthy parents in order to situate their ill-bred children. I'd like to see a ranking of universities by the share of funding that comes from applied science / cooperations with industrial initiators. And just a side note: Ugur Sahin graduated in Cologne (QS ranking 183) and Özlem Türeci graduated in Homburg, Saarland (Didn't make the QS list).

Back to Erasmus: Spending money on education is always a good investment. Spending money on the education of foreigners is an even better investment, because they will later probably return the favor and make their talents and ambitions available to their hosts. Sure, some will return to their home countries, but even those will benefit from their international network and maybe later come back to do business in the former host country.

Last but not least: The idea behind Erasmus was to offer a chance for those who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Maybe this is a strange concept for an old Etonian like Boris Johnson. Another own goal scored by BoJo, and this one was scored from a set piece.

[Skybird]

Core of the Erasmus program was and is the international exchange of students. This purpose has become synonymous with the program.

The British obviously think they do not want to subsidize foreign students in their British universities while their own students must pay more for access to the very same British universities.

In Germany, when i studied it still was free. The result was that many students did not study economically, and wasted their time, too semesters and years longer than would have been needed, broke off more often than students in other countries where it costs them money, started another branch, and took longer time. All this at the expense of the taxpayer.

Thats why I think studying should cost. Not as excessive as it is the case and that it leaves you in debts you pay back for the rest of your life. But it should cost. And better universities should cost more.

I am not against studying for twenty years if somebody wants that. But then he should come up for the costs he causes.

[Catfish]

Core of the Erasmus program was and is the international exchange of students. This purpose has become synonymous with the program.
What a bad idea, eh?
The British obviously think they do not want to subsidize foreign students in their British universities while their own students must pay more for access to the very same British universities.
First this is not "the British" this is Johnson alone, and maybe England. I doubt Wales, Scotland and Ireland had any say in this typical Johnson ad hoc decision.
Second, most university fees in England are of a type no one not born into a rich family can ever hope to visit it. Which means it is not the talented, but the rich who get this kind of education. Which cements and further widens the good old traditional instrument of class division.
There are ecxeptions, but of course they do not have the "reputation". Someone who believes in science and research rather than "reputation" will of course not become a Rees-Mogg, or Johnson.
Maybe the Turing program helps more talents Brits to study overseas when they have no chance in England, but i seriously doubt the underlying intention.
Third, and not the last argument but i'm tired to read this kind of bull, is that the better-known english universities get their fees anyway. If the government decides they can get through with it in the third millenium, their problem and their class society.
In Germany, when i studied it still was free. The result was that many students did not study economically, and wasted their time, too semesters and years longer than would have been needed, broke off more often than students in other countries where it costs them money, started another branch, and took longer time. All this at the expense of the taxpayer.
Studying in Germany in universities meanwhile costs money, and a lot more than in the 1980ies or 90ies, though no comparison to something like Eton of course. Politicians like Merz are of course interested in founding private universities, with their own certain "private" fees. The outcome is usually worse than what leaves the "classic" public universities.

You have usually several kinds of people who want to study, some are really interested, and maybe talented, and may or may not have the money, and then there are those entirely career-horny types with their geled hair and interest in quick money, like Guttenberg. The latter will often finish their "studies" earlier, now you tell me whether those will be the better scientists and researchers, or "valuable" for the society (including sympathy, improving international relations and such).
Young people have interests but few know whether studying, and what, is something for them. If not they will soon find out and there is no problem in letting them find out. Einstein was not a "good student", nor was Heisenberg. No government can order students to think and be brilliant, as China will find out sooner or later.

Germany stil has a federalist system, meaning each county can make its on rules regarding what and how things should be tought, which makes them more individual, which is a good thing.
"Better universities should cost more". Why exactly? Not necessarily, full/associate professors usually get the same money within a county's university/ies. There are certain posts in the university hierarchy of course like C1 or C2 professorship, but ..
Then there is the question of educational equipment, which has to be paid for alright. But why should they be more expensive for students? Education should not be primarily an economical contraption, and they should attract talented people, not rich ones.

It is funny how just of all those who pay no or few taxes have the biggest mouth about how they should be spent.

[Skybird]

You can exchange students. I have nothing against that. I just reject to foot the bill. You want to study in England, in Germany, in France, in Austria, while being a foreigner there? Fine, do it. But pay what it costs, do not expect the locals to feed you through. Even more so when afterwards you do not stay there and give back what you took: by working in their place and paying taxes, but return to your original home country. You might be surprised, but maintaining a university costs money, and money does not just rain down from the sky, even if the ECB and FED want you to believe that.

Strange, eh?

It becomes even more strange when locla students in the end are expected to pay more for their university education than some foreign guests who get it cheaper.

And if you want to calculate the mutual effect of students from two countries visiting each others universities in an exchange program, with the one country havign much better and prestigious universities than the other, and the students of the "inferior" country thus logically visiting the better country's universities in much bigger numbers, again you do not end up with a well-running calculation.

See the need to see things more differentiated. And also see that foreigners have no automatic claim for another people's assets: material or intellectual. Why should they have any moral obligaiton to educate students of other nations so that these nation bring them home and then can comepete stroinger with the first? China has done like this, sent many students to the US and Europe, gained much knowledge, and now uses it to crack down on Western economies. That was stupid that we allowed this. Not to mention that HGermans lack behind Asian in PISA scores more and more, and numbers of patents by Germans - we once held the worl drtecord for that! - are in steep declvine while South Korea have and China and Japan are on the brink of overtaking us. No good omens for the German economic competitiveness in the forseeable future.

[Catfish]

Since brexit in 2016, the numbers of foreign students in England have been declining, maybe Johnson did not consider the 200 million Euros per year from the EU as enough.

"While this year many students could not and cannot take part in the Erasmus exchange program anyway due to the coronavirus pandemic, the number of foreign students in the United Kingdom had already declined before. Brexit is cited as the reason for this.

While the UK has long been considered "the place to be", especially among young French, German and Spanish students, the former EU member state on the other side of the English Channel has apparently lost its popularity: In the 2018/2019 survey period, 11,656 foreign students were in London, Newcastle & Co. In the EU country Spain, however, there were significantly more at 15,175.

Laure Coudret-Laut, director of the Erasmus + France agency based in Bordeaux, told the AFP news agency about this change: “This topic has been with us for a long time.” The students would now prefer other destinations that also offer courses in English . “Many go to Norway, Finland and Ireland. The number of students there has increased significantly. So other exchange partners were found."

https://www.euractiv.de/section/jugend-bildung/news/erasmus-und-brexit-uk-bei-auslandsstudierenden-nicht-mehr-number-one/

[Jimbuna]

The crap keeps coming even though we are supposed to be in christmas mode :doh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6YTLnL3GOI

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7D6iCpPVwY

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ_pInEu40

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N6o2K9MAIA

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wXalD9xuM

[UglyMowgli]

Don't known where did they find all that BS about French and Irish fishermen. Did they live in an alternative universe ?

[Catfish]

^ Seems Google tracked it back to India, and from there to Russia. So propaganda for diversion is effectively spread :hmmm:
But look at the comments, seems they are from real brexiters.


From Heise, a german computer magazine, translation by Google:

"After all, there is now a "deal" between the EU and Great Britain in which both sides sigh of relief over the big or small fish compromise.
The status can still fluctuate between Great Britain, Central Britain or Little Britain, because London will not be able to veto in the future, if Scotland and its fishing zones want to be reintegrated into the EU.

Even if many details are still pending, it is clear that Great Britain is still involved in research projects such as Horizon Europa, Euratom, Copernicus and ESA's Space Surveillance and Tracking segment.

On the negative side, there is clearly the exit from the Europe-friendly Erasmus project for student exchanges. So we are no longer waiting for Santa Claus or the Christkindle, but for Boris Johnson, who has promised to turn the island into the leading solar and wind power production facility after the deal. Allegedly it was the EU that has kept hindering these projects all the time. And yes, Johnson's prognosis is also waiting to be implemented: "In the future, voice connectivity will be in every room and almost every object: your mattress will monitor your nightmares; your fridge will beep for more cheese."
:D

[Jimbuna]

More 'Propaganda'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKhGCGRL-eM

[Catfish]

I was referring to this "UK News" site, not all critical comments :D

[Jimbuna]

Oh I realised that but imho they are only worth viewing for what in the main is the 'comedy' element.

[Skybird]

There seem to be different views on in how far the levelled playing field also affects low custom harbours that the last video above mentions. The EU so far seem to m ake it appear as iof anything non-levelled in business competition, including low taxes and such such, has been banned, as it wanted.



In times of trade disputes I also predict conflicts on how to man that planned arbitratge court that is meant to settle it in place of the UK govenrment or the European court. Obviously both sides have an interest in having people seating in it who are friendly to their side's stand.



Yesterday insiders from the EU side already threatened with legal sanctions and the nevertheless activation of the EU court if London decides for especially low tax regulations to undercut the high tax standards in the EU in order to attract entrepreneurship that way.



And I am still rejecting the Scottish in the EU if they do not pay in more than they get out of it. :O: No further net receivers, please, there already are too many. By numbers they have the majority now, 17:10, without the UK, which was a net payer.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9_L_J8iqUg

[Skybird]

Its irritating how mutually contradictory the EU's and the UK's description are on details that have been achieved, if that ^ video would be right. There are comments from the EU's side and the UK's side (as claimed in the video) that simply are mutually exclusive.


I start to wonder if maybe the formulations are so wishy-washy that everybody can read just anythign into them? And after all the treaty has over 1200 pages, plus 800 pages of appendices and footnotes.



1200 pages. Plus 800 pages. Andnthe important traps and conficts I expect to be buried in theb fineprint and appendices so that members of the British and European parliament are more unlikely to find and care for them.

[Skybird]

And as I typed in the above, may eyes found this vidoe of theirs, 3 hours old.

Brexit deal bombshell as small print shows EU judges' orders WILL be enforceable in UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6yNFKAZulk
This and other similar details to emerge in the forseeable future I expect to be more believable, since the EU was ihn the stronger position all the time if the UK really wnated a deal - but the UK should have marked all its wanted little victories? That simply makes not really sense.



I think Johnson once again bluffes his people, which is what he does all the time.

[Catfish]

Some people should read and listen instead of shouting and making idiotic claims towards perceived "enemies".

[skidman]

This sums it up nicely: A German conservative's view on Brexit:

"Great Britain is out of the EU. The liars and amateurs on the island won. You are an eternal shame for all conservatives."

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/brexit-wut-statt-wehmut-kolumne-a-54834677-bd81-4335-b933-d1926aa1b25b

[Skybird]

A maggot being angry for not getting fed by a net payer anymore. What a drama.

The author is an ink pisser for Bild Zeitung and political agitator for RTL.

[skidman]

Some people should read and listen instead of shouting and making idiotic claims towards perceived "enemies".

True. And just proven once again.

[Jimbuna]

Ambassadors from the 27 EU member states have unanimously approved the EU-UK post-Brexit trade deal, paving the way for it to take effect.

The deal is likely to become law on 1 January, as the UK Parliament is expected to approve it on Wednesday.

Under EU rules it can take effect provisionally, though the European Parliament will vote on it in January.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465081

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yasljeXa1M

[Jimbuna]

I doubt many if any at all would have expected this.

Barnier to overthrow Macron EU chief reveals plot to 'spark momentum' in French politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2QWOcIgkA

[UglyMowgli]

What will change for UK with the deal:



https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/attachment/867615/EU_Membership_benefits_two_columns.pdf

[Jimbuna]

Sir Keir Starmer is facing a rebellion over his decision to back Boris Johnson's EU trade deal on Wednesday.

The Labour leader will order his MPs to vote for the deal in the Commons, ensuring it should pass into law in time for the UK's exit from EU rules.

Sir Keir has called the deal "thin" and not what the government promised, but better than no deal.

Critics led by ex-shadow Chancellor John McDonnell are urging the Labour leader not to support the "rotten" deal.

Other opposition parties, including the SNP, the Lib Dems and the DUP, have already said they will not be voting for the deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55474148

Once again Labour show the one skill they outshine all others in...ineptitude.

[Skybird]

Embarassing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55475433
Involuntarily it displays also how much can be given for that government accept such a document and acually indepth analysed it and understood what they have red. If it really were like this, shouldn't any so-called experts on behalf of EU government have brought this up and rang an alarm bell before their governments nodded it off the table...?

I said a couple of days ago that almost all members of the UK and EU parliament will accept this document without actually having red it and understood it in full. 1280 pages. Plus 800 pages of appendices and footnotes. And then this short period of time, after which they are expected and demanded to pass it.

Absurd.

And bringing the treaty into effect BEFORE it has been ratified. Isnt that leading the whole idea of ratification absurd once more? I mean ratification is meant to to be given BEFORE a treaty becomes active, right? But now creating facts before ratification, facts that are hard to take back, so that in the end even a later non-ratification means nothign anymore? In other words ratification has been avoided and the parliamentary sovereignty and the meaning of legal principles and procedures have been avoided...?

They render the very meaning of words and terms meaningless these days. That way they never mean what they say, and never say what they mean.

But the terms truth and untruth have been murdered and left motionsless behind as well and already earlier, so why complaining about the new modern "flexibility".

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsIuMM6Wno

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lPceznuJSM

[Jimbuna]

MPs will vote shortly to approve legislation that will pass the EU-UK post-Brexit deal into UK law.

Parliament was recalled to put the agreement into UK law, one day before the UK stops following EU rules.

Proceedings in the House of Commons started at 09:30 GMT with a vote expected around 14:30 GMT

The EU (Future Relationship) Bill will then pass to the House of Lords for their approval.

Once both Houses have agreed to the bill, the Queen will be asked to give her consent, known as Royal Assent.

EU bosses officially signed the agreement in Brussels earlier - it has been flown to London by the RAF for Boris Johnson to sign.

[Jimbuna]

Lovely story on the BBC today about how Rory Bremner ( supreme UK impersonator) unknowingly thwarted a Eurosceptic coup against John Major in 1993. (even more lovely if you were a remainer....)

Bremner was wanting to see if his John Major voice was good enough to fool anyone, so he phoned up senior Tory MPs to test it- as you would. At the time the top Eurosceptic MP Sir Richard Body was planning to challenge Major's leadership at the next Tory conference, when he received a 'frantic' call from Major, begging for support, as did other MPs. Body then changed his mind and called his dogs off, not realising he had been spoofed, and history might well have been altered. 26 more years of EU membership followed, along with the Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson governments

When the mistake was realised there was a row between Westminster and Channel 4, the calls were never broadcast and Ch4 gave an undertaking that any future calls would require the permission of the C4 CEO- then Michael Grade.

Rory Bremner had no idea about this at the time, and described the calls as being like safe cracking "suddenly the doors open and you're in"

Sir Richard wrote to Major apologising for being taken in, who in turn ticked the note twice and added "Good".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55477424

[Jimbuna]

MPs have overwhelmingly approved the UK's post-Brexit trade deal with the EU in a parliamentary vote.

A bill bringing the deal into UK law was backed by the Commons by 521 to 73 votes after Parliament was recalled.

The majority of Labour MPs are thought to have voted for the agreement after leader Sir Keir Starmer said a "thin deal was better than no deal".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55478513

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RCwfW9YiOI

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFSPHcd0ZBE

I suspect Theresa has forgotten to take her medication.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3zpNJ8UZXg

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rech5h2c6jg

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfRwffFI5I

[Jimbuna]

Meanwhile far up north...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXQZMYCujc

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson's father applies for French citizenship.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55499773

[Skybird]

Welcome to EUNEUM - the European Union of Non-European Union Members. :D



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3oBDj5a3VE&feature=emb_logo

[Jimbuna]

^ :haha:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68fj1vbm0t8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziAtUQ32OEk

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziAtUQ32OEk
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pulse-fishing-brexit-boris-johnson-eu-b1781323.html


France, which very much remains a member, banned pulse fishing within its territorial waters in the summer of 2019, months after the EU reached a deal enabling member states to immediately ban the practice within their coastal waters.

The move came amid anger among French fishermen, who said the practice by their Dutch counterparts – who pioneered the practice – leads to unsustainable stock depletions.

What’s pulse fishing’s legal status in the EU?

While Britain lags behind France in banning pulse fishing, it is only marginally ahead of the EU itself, which is set to implement its own ban in July, though it will apparently allow an exemption for six boats following pressure from the Dutch fishing industry.

The bloc had previously allowed member states to equip up to five per cent of their vessels with pulse fishing equipment.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uIiaAZWP8c

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eE8_5UL9us

[Skybird]

^The arrogance of self-proclaimed aristocrats for whom a world in which they are not being admired and beloved by all is practically unimaginable. The EU often reminds of a wax puppet collection, and every puppet is Karl Lagerfeld in eccentric clothing doing some profane home work.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbwdaladFxg

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmuAW8YS-bU

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XtpLoVvqE

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson has reiterated his position that a Scottish independence referendum should be a "once-in-a-generation" vote.

Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr programme, the prime minister said the gap between referendums on Europe - the first in 1975 and the second in 2016 - was "a good sort of gap".

However, Mr Marr suggested that now "things had changed" for Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon wants to see an independent Scotland join the EU.

Andrew Marr asked the prime minister what a voter in Scotland should do if they decided that a second independence referendum was now something they wanted, and what were the "democratic tools" to now do that?

Mr Johnson replied by saying: "Referendums in my experience, direct experience, in this country are not particularly jolly events.

"They don't have a notably unifying force in the national mood, they should be only once-in-a-generation."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55521732

[Jimbuna]

I don't think I'd fancy getting crabs from Boris (0:40) :haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKy7K5EDwc

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxBHeNG21hA

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgudIG8ID3Y

[Skybird]

From an Austrian's perspective:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.andreas-unterberger.at/2021/01/and-the-winner-is-ij-boris/

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfm9pf0qEHI

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX6pHpRsY0M

[Catfish]

Your fellow countrymen like this propaganda, do you read those comments? I have to say the more i read the more i am becoming happy that those people left the EU :haha:

[Jimbuna]

Not everyone wants to leave :03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyl7grcERcA

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9CBpG79Htc

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgLPjEJbfXM

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cwCsj6rsnY

[Jimbuna]

Hold on a sec but wasn't there supposed to be a "Special place in hell" for us?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ56juMtrsY

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVffMTbbYPk

[MGR1]

Interesting article by Douglas Fraser (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/correspondents/douglasfraser)Business/economy editor for BBC Scotland:

Brexit: The reality dawns (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-55584500)



While attention has been on infection control and the Channel, it's Northern Ireland which is perhaps the most astonishing and far-reaching aspect of Brexit. So far. Its treatment suggests that it is now English nationalism that will determine whether the UK remains united.
Scottish fish exports have become the first to run into problems with paperwork required before trucks leave the country, as well as when they reach France. They're being joined by others.
The first eight days have had some allowance for change, but the "period of grace" is ending, and from hauliers to ferry firms and British suppliers of imported goods to the EU, firms are finding the new trading reality is complex and costly.

True his jibe about Brexiteers being English nationalists is rather uncalled for but it does highlight something the "Celtic Periphery" and Unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland have always thought about English Conservatives:

They're too English and not British enough. Therefore they're not to be trusted to do the right thing for whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyhXbozE7Og

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8aBtyvZkuY

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE4NEH-83lc

[Skybird]

It would be nice to have kind of independent cross-verification for all those videos' claims. The video releaser is suspicious to me cause I cannot find confirmation for all the sensations he is reporting, and I wonder what he ahs to hide when telling all this with a robot-computer-generated voice. And the mainstream media over here narrate a very different version of things. I doubt however that they have an exclusive deal with the truth either.

[mapuc]

Britain are divorced from EU. It was a though divorce and nevertheless each of these two can't live without each other.

Markus

[Catfish]

^ Yes the fat cats won. However now they really must be afraid of Scotland or Ireland breaking away.
On the other hand this kind of diversive propaganda is probably targeted to alienate all sides more, and finally indeed lead to the intended downfall, once more.

[Skybird]

That Madrid would object to Scotland joining the EU makes sense, however (Catalonia). Who knows, Paris maybe as well (the Basques).

But that is the Scots (and Xcatlonians and Basques business), and theirs exlcusively. I only insist that they are not allowed into the EU if they are not net payers, but just more hungry mouths that want to get fed.


I also do not think that a community of dwarves makes the whole stronger. The more weka member sthere are,m the weaker the whole community is. And the last thing the EU needs now is ANY more new members.

[Skybird]

This tells the story differfently than those videos, Jim. I do not say it is more true or wrong, I simply do not know anymore. I just give it as a different perspective on things. Its the perspective that is dominant here "in the EU".

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/eu/ewiges-drama-zwischen-grossbritannien-und-eu-brexit-erledigt-von-wegen-es-stehen-noch-viele-jahre-streit-ins-haus_id_12841002.html

[skidman]

I wonder why some Brits are still so obsessed with what is happening on the other side of the channel. Maybe they can't switch from hostility to cooperation mode. Maybe badmouthing the EU is just a bad habit and they are not grown up enough to get rid of it. Whatever it is, it is not helpful and it will cost them dearly.

[Skybird]

That ^ remains to be seen, but there is certainly a lot of hope on the continent that it should cost them dearly, as you just have illustrated yourself. Serves them right!

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/64244023.jpg

("Luigi, one does not turn against the family!")

[Catfish]

He did not said it should, but that it will cost them. You do not need to be Nostradamus to see this happening.

B.t.w. we can assume that those nationalist brexit videos posted here all the time are not being initiated in the UK.

[Skybird]

And I said that the continental attitude is that it should cost them, gefälligst. Punishment must be. The EU wants that it costs them. The bitterer, the more satisfying. Hopefully Brexit will not be a success, and makes them crawling back on their knees under the eU patronizing umbrella. Like the French demand, hope for, and have said.

Britain should, has to, hopefully will suffer. Thats the hope of the eU. It was never different. Its what their whole negotiation strategy was basing on: to make them suffer whereever possible.



We will see who was more successful: the eU in eforcing much desired punsihment, Britain in evading and preventing that. Covid certainly has mixed the cards new. Still, the vaccination strategy of the Brits work much better thna that of Super-Uschi, this Francophile intellectual vacuum from Germany.


The videos posted by Jim and the article I recently linked, certainly illustrate the stark and contradicting contrast in perception on both sides of the channel.

[Jimbuna]

Next :03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOs-NPsltNs

[Jimbuna]

More chance of getting bit on the bottom by a cabbage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjXavM538dM

[mapuc]

I think those who are pro-EU want to see Britain going down.
And
Those who are anti-EU hopes Britain will gain from this divorce.

Markus

[skidman]

Well Markus, of course everyone is entitled to their own view. Here is mine: I'd like to see Britain and the EU establish a new form of partnership for mutual benefit. This doesn't only encompass economic aspects like those dealt with in the trade treaty. In fact the economic side of our future relationship is already predetermined: Both sides will lose, the economical weaker side will lose more and the younger generation will suffer the most.

My honest belief is that there are more things we have in common than things that separate us. The biggest problem at the moment is the loudest on both sides being those who are trying to bring us apart.

[Catfish]

I think those who are pro-EU want to see Britain going down.
And
Those who are anti-EU hopes Britain will gain from this divorce.

Markus


No one would expect much love if he got slapped in the face, called a tyranny, said goodbye with "17 million f'offs" or "We hate you"?
I take it the 27 nations have been astonishingly reluctant, most probaby because they know that despite propaganda bile and medieval nationalism the majority of England does not want a brexit.

You may know it was England that wanted to go, and Wales. Scotland voted against, as did Ireland. And in England it was the fat cats and elder, well-off who voted for brexit, not the young ones. The majority was scarce enough for such a decision, a lot of younger did not vote, it was not a refefendum and so on.

Whatever you make of all that, the "small number of issues" will not simply vanish because Farage or Rupert Murdoch, or some obscure internet site, tells you so.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-fish-rotting-eu-red-tape-b758997.html

[Catfish]

re Markus: Dominic Frisby, the comedian with the "17 million f'offs" to the EU can't explain why he voted to leave the EU :rotfl2:

From 2:00 on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nw2-2jIkPY

Comedy gold.

[skidman]

^This video brought back some sad memories. But we need to look ahead and wipe the slate clean. There is a lot of homework to be done on the EU side. The Brits will sooner or later discover sovereignty gives you a nice warm feeling but does not pay the bills. But first of all this goddamn virus has to be defeated.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m_wFpmOrK8

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7eVSQWpaT0

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9N02GHzAOM

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoASCa-ait0

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjKvy9_RQQc

[Catfish]

"After growing up in a Zimbabwe convulsed by the legacy of colonialism, when I got to Oxford I realised how many British people still failed to see how empire had shaped lives like mine – as well as their own"

Some enlightening insights i think:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jan/14/rhodes-must-fall-oxford-colonialism-zimbabwe-simukai-chigudu

[Skybird]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fisheries-minister-admits-not-reading-brexit-bill-as-she-was-at-nativity


I said that most would sign/agree to this treaty without having fully red and fully comprehend it. And I am sure that is what happened.



And in the tiem they had, that simpyl wa snot even possible, practically, even if peope, would have spend hours and hours every remaining day to read. You can read - and reflect and comprehend - stuff only to such and such ammounts in a given time.



The eu parliametaries reserve right to refusew thre treaty, said they will not acept beighn pulled over the table by pressing tables. In which case the EU would again trigger one of its infamous backroom deal stunts that it practices always when it cannot get in formal and rule-complying ways what it demands.

[Catfish]

"An Irish trawler was barred from fishing in UK waters by a patrol boat in the first post-Brexit fishing clash.

Dublin has never recognised the UK's claims of sovereignty over Rockall - sparking clashes over the fishing waters that surround it.
Skipper Adrian McClenaghan told RTE News: "They informed us we could no longer fish inside the 12 mile limit of Rockall."
The news comes as a number of EU firms refused to deliver products to the UK claiming post-Brexit tax rules make it too expensive. And some deliveries to Northern Ireland have been delayed since Christmas, with delivery operators "uncertain" of new rules post-Brexit, according to the BBC."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13594550/brexit-news-latest-travel-borders-uk-eu-sweden-spain-live/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55552455

[Moonlight]

Typical first world problems, if he had the correct licence in the first place this wouldn't have happened, another bleeding EU moron who thinks that they can go anywhere they want and whenever they want, welcome to Brexit. :haha:

One day a rather inebriated Irish ice fisherman drilled a hole in the ice and peered into the hole and a loud voice said, "There are no fish down there."
He walked several yards away and drilled another hole and peered into the hole and again the voice said, "There's no fish down there."
He then walked about 50 yards away and drilled another hole and again the voice said, "There's no fish down there."
He looked up into the sky and asked, "God, is that you?"
"No, you idiot," the voice said, "it's the ice rink manager." :D

[Catfish]

Whatever, bye.

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-reasons-uk-failed-brexit-talks/

[MGR1]

Regardless of unenlightened "Thick Paddy" jokes I do note that the Sun article doesn't mention that the British OPV was actually from Marine Scotland. Perhaps the Sun's editorial team feel that their English readership are too thick for such distinctions.

Mike.

[Moonlight]

@Catfish, Jonathan Powell was Tony Blair’s former chief of staff, whohoo, you certainly pick your sources don't you, a pro EU biased politician with a former dubious Prime Minister as leader of the UK and a tainted political party to boot, pftttt, bye bye.

@MGR1, that comes as no surprise to me as Rupert Murdoch wouldn't want to upset his senile readership while they're eating their fish and chips for breakfast now would he.

[Jimbuna]

"An Irish trawler was barred from fishing in UK waters by a patrol boat in the first post-Brexit fishing clash.

Dublin has never recognised the UK's claims of sovereignty over Rockall - sparking clashes over the fishing waters that surround it.
Skipper Adrian McClenaghan told RTE News: "They informed us we could no longer fish inside the 12 mile limit of Rockall."
The news comes as a number of EU firms refused to deliver products to the UK claiming post-Brexit tax rules make it too expensive. And some deliveries to Northern Ireland have been delayed since Christmas, with delivery operators "uncertain" of new rules post-Brexit, according to the BBC."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13594550/brexit-news-latest-travel-borders-uk-eu-sweden-spain-live/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55552455

From the above link.

A temporary licence was issued to the boat to fish in UK waters, with the stipulation that as a EU Vessel, it is not authorised to fish within 12 nautical miles of Rockall.

[Jimbuna]

What a load of bollocks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCyRCstXKME

[Jimbuna]

Perhaps everything in the garden isn't as rosy as some would have us believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnY6pNyyCTw

[Catfish]

^ all he talks about fits a hundred percent to England and its trade with and border to, the EU :03:

[Skybird]

What a load of bollocks!

Actually Fratzscher is not that unknown over here, but you cna read him frequently in national newspapers. The liabilities helkd by Germany for other EU nations due to this insane things named Target 2 saldi, is a major neck-breaker - I am saying this since many years, right?! Its at over 1 billion Euros - money the ERCB owes Germany for Germany havign done buying for other EU members and these states handing over thgeir liabilities toi the ECBm, whcih now owes Germany. We will not get back that money, we must write it off. Additional to the debts others owe us, net far more than we owe them.


Its an unsustainable system of madness and lunacy. And it cannot avoid ending brutally.

[Skybird]

Perhaps everything in the garden isn't as rosy as some would have us believe.


In the end Sturgeon is as much a populistic liar as Johnson is. They deserve each other.

[MGR1]

@MGR1, that comes as no surprise to me as Rupert Murdoch wouldn't want to upset his senile readership while they're eating their fish and chips for breakfast now would he.
The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph and Express all have separate editions for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, so even supposedly "national" newspapers aren't very. Certainly using the first two as a guide "Janus-faced (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/janus-faced)" is an apt description on their reporting when it comes to non-English matters.

Going on to the Labour Party's continuing misfortunes in Scotland it's leader up here has resigned:

Richard Leonard quits as Scottish Labour leader (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55666234)

You might ask "Who?". Don't worry, most Scots ask the same question.:har:

Mike.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Putin would be delighted if the EU was completely destroyed.

One of the things which always struck me about Brexit is that the supporters for Brexit always seemed to fall into two types: blue-blooded public school boys who seem to support it for their own selfish reasons, and what we in the United States would call "poor white trash." Those against Brexit always seemed far better educated and diverse.

[Cybermat47]

Putin would be delighted if the EU was completely destroyed.

I have to agree with that. I’ve been researching Russia’s intervention in Ukraine in 2014 for university, and one of the main causes for Russia’s aggression appears to have been Ukraine’s increasingly strong ties with the EU. I would say that Putin views the EU as a threat to Russia’s sphere of influence, so it’s collapse would certainly benefit him.

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: Five surprising consequences.

1. Ham sandwiches confiscated.
2. Deliveries to Northern Ireland suspended.
3. Tariffs charged on Ghana bananas.
4. Cannabis oil prescriptions not recognised.
5. Scottish seafood held up at borders

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55633632

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bugu0KQ0G-c

[Catfish]

Ah, Mogg "OBLITERATES".
Can someome please obliterate this FOSSIL?

[Jimbuna]

Ah, Mogg "OBLITERATES".
Can someome please obliterate this FOSSIL?

I'd be one of the first in the queue if the opportunity ever presented itself :yep:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRW9tFqb3YE

[Jimbuna]

Not sure what to make of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSlOqdeZx7E

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft2BawKgM88

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XapjYtJ64PU

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRW9tFqb3YE
That Francophile fossil is wrong. He helped to negotiater it: now both sides mjst not do anymire what the other is mcommnanding them,. or tries, to, but they must obey what they have agreed to in that heap of paper.
Hoiwever there are growing reports now thgat that heap pf paper has been more ill-specified in detials than was hoped.
Still, not wish and desire and order commands nwhat any side must do now, but what that treaty says.

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XapjYtJ64PU
Totally correct, I am saying this all myself since years.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HY53luUHDk

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-8XcNkvgZo

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0yZeepYPRI

[Catfish]

"Jacob Rees-Mogg says British fish are 'happier' because of Brexit deal"

They sure are, i guess they will soon get their blue passport. And maybe we can also build a wall against illegal fish immigration, in the north sea :arrgh!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiKmqY_RNME