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The big question is will Brexit happen?? :doh:
Something will have to happen the question is what that something will be? The whole situation is a gigantic mess and getting worst by the minute.
Jimbuna
12-12-18, 07:24 AM
Live updates: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-46533245
SKY News sources say 141 MP's will back MayBot.
Jimbuna
12-12-18, 07:44 AM
Pure speculation atm.
Pure speculation atm.
Sky states they have publicly said that, now 143.
Jimbuna
12-12-18, 07:54 AM
Sky states they have publicly said that, now 143.
Its all below...
Live updates: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-46533245
I have to give Jezzer credit for not calling for it, clearly seeing he would loose. If it's a big win for MayBot, Mogg and Co are finished as they will have to crawl back into the woodwork.
Jimbuna
12-12-18, 11:15 AM
At least ten more vote pledges than she needs (providing those scoundrels are being truthful) so we await 9pm tonight.
MayBot wins the vote and is safe for another year.
200 to 117 votes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547246
MayBot will still lose the Brexit vote and loose all support from the DUP, result a dead duck that can not get anything passed through parliament .
I don't know if I should write
Congratulation
or
You have my deepest sympathy
Markus
Catfish
12-13-18, 04:29 AM
It seems that the british people are divided, to say at least. Of those who are for a brexit they do not exactly know what they really want or how to do it, apart from those who want a no-deal-brexit-cut. But the latter is not what the majority of the people want, let alone industry.
The people around Rees-Mogg try to make prime minister May stumble regardless what would be best for the country, or follows the general opinion. "The EU leading England by the nose" or whatever his or Johnson's or Farage's lies are exactly, it is always the anxious try to spread fear, insecurity, divide, bedevil others, and drive wedges between people and nations, for their own personal opinion (mostly not worth much) and political benefit. This is not the fault of the EU.
An analysis in the german TV recently allleged that this whole 'process' has a lot to do with what happened to England after WW2. Winning the war, England did not get much out of it (much less than the US, or Russia), and after possessing almost 25 percent of the world's land mass for decades being able to dictating politics, rules and international trade the 'Empire' crumbled, and was gone. Instead of prospering, industry was left with 90 percent less trade, old machines, and not having enough money to invest, and then additionally there was social unrest and strikes.
I do not know whether this really is/was the main cause, apart from a general different view between young and old, between modern and conservative, between pro EU and anti EU – while all three combinations overlap or differ somehow. There are no clean fronts, and it has nothing to do with 'left' or 'right'. Opinions exist all over the spectrum.
Whatever the reason, it is time to come to terms with old wounds and the feeling of loss and betrayal, so that agitators and liars can be stopped. A bit of enlightenment May is not the reason for all this, but she has become the scapegoat for this general feeling, when the real arsonists ran away in the hour of change.
Although May has done a lot for getting the old empire nations together and dealienate them from the long-felt arrogance, while also trying to improve trade and relations, all this will not heal and happen in a few months.
So, how do you think this will go on? May has been confirmed for now, but she will most likely lose the majority for her way of a brexit. While all wonder why this will happen because - apart from Ireland - it delivers all that has been asked for.
IMHO whatever the deal may be, there will be no Empire. And there will always be the question of Northern Ireland. If England breaks the treaties and gets out with no deal, it will most probably have consequences for the UK as a political construct :hmmm:
What exactly, are the reasons to vote against Mrs May's deal, apart from the future situation of Ireland?
What do you think happens if this deal will be voted down?
I know you do not want it but we like you. But you are really making it hard, for all :yep:
Jimbuna
12-13-18, 06:02 AM
What exactly, are the reasons to vote against Mrs May's deal, apart from the future situation of Ireland?
What do you think happens if this deal will be voted down?
I know you do not want it but we like you. But you are really making it hard, for all :yep:
I'll do my best to answer the above whilst readily admitting I'm pro Brexit.....
Patience with May eventually came to an end when Parliament (who are sovereign on such matters) grew tired of her weakness and inability to negotiate an acceptable deal, furthermore giving the nation a sense of a bullying position by the EU.
The deal which would have been put before Parliament meant the UK would lose any negotiating and voting rights at the EU policy making entities, would have to abide by any decisions made by said countries and pay approx. £40 billion for the priviledge....REALLY!!
So, nothing in effect would change and the cost was far too high anyway.
May was totally intransigent of the views of her cabinet, Brexit secretaries, MP's and a majority of the nation.
The price she has paid was to meet her MP's in private asking for their vote and in return agreeing not to lead her party at the next general election and be rightly categorised as a 'dead duck' (Merkel and Macron anybody?).
All is not yet lost however because today she once again goes to Europe cap in hand to humiliate herself further and attempt to negotiate a settlement the UK can agree to and in so doing has a clear mandate and mesage to our friends and Allies.....The UK requires a legally binding agreement on the backstop or we walk and go over to WTO tarifs.
Should that happen and I sincerely hope that is not the case, there should be a clear understanding that any tarifs imposed from the EU will be matched and reciprocated by the UK (current estimate make that a profit of £13 billion in favour of the UK).
I can't help but wonder what the smaller member EU states (of whom there is a majority) will make of this because it is the larger countries who this will impact on most (all the net contributors) funnily enough.
As for the backstop, the UK will not put any physical border in place, the Irish are equally as adamant so let the EU decide how far they want to interfere with British teritorial land.
Perhaps Juncker will remain sober enough for a sufficient period to march his EU army up to the top of the hill then march it down again.
If matters deteriorate further I would like to think the UK will reconsider its position regarding security matters, NATO membership and troop deployments to the eastern section of the EU, not that I think they are actually real members other than in name and for the express benefit of self interest regarding finance and military protection.
Add the withdrawal of the UK nuclear deterrent into the equation and that will leave France as the sole provider. Germany is currently much weakened militarily (according to Sky who I am happy to believe) so that leaves Germany reliant on France....an interesting concept.The above in quotes is intended to be taken as not too serious but more a way of portraying how a growing number of people here in the UK are perceiving matters, so don't go flying off the handle in outrage.
The UK has repeatedly expressed a wish for cordial relations and fair trade but the EU are acting like control freaks who's sole aim is to control everything on behalf of everybody. Whatever happened to the EEC?
The crux of the matter is the backstop and key to the future outcome, whatever that will be. There is a fair and balanced article IMHO on the matter below.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46546295
It is imperative that the whole situation is agreed upon and put to bed as quickly as possible because neither side and I must say in particular that of the EU is not projecting a positive image of itself on the world stage.
Jimbuna
12-13-18, 10:15 AM
Brexit: Your simple guide to the UK leaving the EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46318565
Mr Quatro
12-13-18, 11:55 AM
Hope it works out for you chaps ... cheerio :up:
It sure seems like it is the right thing to do ... has the domino effect been discussed yet?
Brexit: the pros and cons of leaving the EU
https://www.theweek.co.uk/brexit-0
Pro-Brexit Labour MP Kate Hoey said at the time that the EU is ”an attempt to replace the democratic power of the people with a permanent administration in the interests of big business“. Those on the right of the Conservative party may disagree with her emphasis, but they share her view that EU institutions have drained power from the British parliament.
Skybird
12-13-18, 07:57 PM
Plenty of lukewarm words traded in Brussels. The EU so seriously reassures it wants only the best, and mutual ties, and wants to work for trade deals after Backstop, and bla and bla and bla. Nothing but warm words, nothing that could be used in a legal dispute, no legally binding stuff, nothing.
That May even said in wording that the EU must help her to change the perceptions of the deal in her parliament, shows her arrogance. To change the perception? No, Madam, its not about just perceptions, its about content, solid, legally binding content that would hold its gorund in case of a dispute before court. And regarding content, you stand as naked before your people as before. Talk about perceptions as long as you want, your new clothings are - nakedness.
"Perceptions". Pah.
Not even mentioning the many other concessions made by the UK. Practically all conflicting points were settled in the interest of the EU, not the UK. They will not let the UK off the hook over the Backstop issue.
Jimbuna
12-14-18, 08:39 AM
Not even mentioning the many other concessions made by the UK. Practically all conflicting points were settled in the interest of the EU, not the UK. They will not let the UK off the hook over the Backstop issue.
Should that be the final outcome then we will find ourselves with a stark choice.....Remain or Brexit without a deal.
MayBot is keen to wast tax payers money on wasteful visits to the EU. If I was in that band I would be very angry. I think its time to call her MayDelayBot or MDB for short as she tries to prevent the up coming blow to her Brexit bill.
Jimbuna
12-14-18, 10:57 AM
Actually, she's attempting to gain improvements in order that support for her agreement will be forthcoming.
Actually, she's attempting to gain improvements in order that support for her agreement will be forthcoming.
The EU once again has made it clear..No more talks. They have put on their iron gloves to get the message home, May clearly angry at the delayed press conference she held as she walked in.
Jimbuna
12-14-18, 11:03 AM
It's never over till it's over.
Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz - current EU Council president - says that Brexit talks had "overshadowed" all other business at the Brussels summit.
Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel: "The ball is now politically in the British court."
Clearly they are getting fed up.
Moving on..The challenge against May was badly timed if they held off until the Brexit vote failed they could have made the vote closer.
Skybird
12-14-18, 05:27 PM
For connoisseurs and aficionados. To Jim and Steed, from Germany with love. Feel blessed with this woman, you two! :yeah:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fdebatte%2Fkommentare %2Farticle185540260%2FTheresa-May-Voelker-der-Welt-schaut-auf-diese-Frau.html
Yes, there are retards like this in this mental asylum named Germany. Sad, but true.
Jimbuna
12-15-18, 06:31 AM
For connoisseurs and aficionados. To Jim and Steed, from Germany with love. Feel blessed with this woman, you two! :yeah:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fdebatte%2Fkommentare %2Farticle185540260%2FTheresa-May-Voelker-der-Welt-schaut-auf-diese-Frau.html
Yes, there are retards like this in this mental asylum named Germany. Sad, but true.
TBH Sky and despite having been a member of the Labour Party for 25 years (I left the day after Corbyn became leader) I'll never be a Tory supporter but Theresa May has earned my respect and admiration as the kind of leader one could rely on in a crisis, perhaps she modelled herself on Thatcher, who can say?
Her achilles heel IMHO is her failure to take on the advice of her advisors and tendancy to march into the eye of the storm despite alternative strategies being available.
It is now that the country should unite behind her because we are after all supposed to be a UNITED KINGDOM.
There is one thing I am steadfast about, if it is a no deal ending then not one penny of British taxpayers money should be handed over, in fact, the UK should demand a rebate towards the almost £200 billion debt we owed for many a year, the cost we paid to free Europe from some of their current allies.....a bit ironic really when you think about it.
Having said all that, I'm still optimistic some form of deal will be struck but Parliament will be the decider of the ultimate outcome.
Jimbuna
12-15-18, 06:58 AM
Juncker explains 'nebulous' remark...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46572863/juncker-explains-nebulous-remark
Today’s word is nebulous.....
Same word used by accountants when examining the EU's Annual Accounts.........................
Skybird
12-15-18, 07:22 AM
TBH Sky and despite having been a member of the Labour Party for 25 years (I left the day after Corbyn became leader) I'll never be a Tory supporter but Theresa May has earned my respect and admiration as the kind of leader one could rely on in a crisis, perhaps she modelled herself on Thatcher, who can say?
Her achilles heel IMHO is her failure to take on the advice of her advisors and tendancy to march into the eye of the storm despite alternative strategies being available.
It is now that the country should unite behind her because we are after all supposed to be a UNITED KINGDOM.
There is one thing I am steadfast about, if it is a no deal ending then not one penny of British taxpayers money should be handed over, in fact, the UK should demand a rebate towards the almost £200 billion debt we owed for many a year, the cost we paid to free Europe from some of their current allies.....a bit ironic really when you think about it.
Having said all that, I'm still optimistic some form of deal will be struck but Parliament will be the decider of the ultimate outcome.
I must disagree. As I said earlier in some post above, I doubt that any other PM could have eaccheved more inBrussel, so alteratie strategies for negotiatians imo would not have made any difference. I explained why. And I do not accuse May for having failed here, it was mission impossible for day one on. But she handed so many concessions over without getting anything in return, that one really must ask for which side she has worked: the UK, or the EU?. And then she agreed to a draft deal of which she should have known, if she had any sanity in her reasoning, that she would never, NEVER, get it through in this state and condition. She signed the deal with the EU - and this was one of her biggest mistakes, becasue this signature now is the prime alibi for the EU to not renegotiate a deal most favourable for itself where all critical issues were decided on behalf of interests and demands of the EU. It is a dictate of conditions, no mutual deal, and it makes quite some abuse of the UK's weakened position. May wasted precious time, and increased these vunerablities needlessly. I had another expectation of British politics and attitudes, but maybe I fell for some clichées there. The way May handed it all, to me looks very - German. Softy, plenty of wishy-washy, paying endlessly, and not daring to mount own threats, being led by a imperial demand for deiciding things by "consensus".
Dreamdancing it was for most of the time. And now it is wakeup time.
To celebrate her for these pityful results, like the author of that article does, is totally unrewarded. The neverending bombardment of criticism of her management and handling in my view is justified.
And as I also have said earlier, I absolutely question the honesty of her motives. And I meant that serious.
I also think that many members of the political caste will dpened their vote not so much on logic or reason or their assessment of what is best for the country, but their personal career interests. This seems to have already poisoned most of the process in the past 18 months.
May's plan:
https://s15.directupload.net/images/181215/aovvnn9u.png (https://www.directupload.net)
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................."Sooner or later they break their legs..."
Jimbuna
12-15-18, 08:29 AM
The deal as is presently on the table will never pass a Commons vote nor do I belive the politicians will allow a no deal so the options remaining will be a Norway Plus type of deal or maybe even a general election.
Skybird
12-15-18, 04:20 PM
May's precious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=158&v=Tjp5OmoDYQM
:D
MayBot was a disaster at the Home Office and as a PM is she a bloody joke! If she is the best the Tories can offer then we are on a sinking ship. Don't tell kick the can down the road as I beg for a bone from the EU MayBot. :doh:
Nice one Sky. :)
Bleiente
12-15-18, 04:46 PM
Geheime Verschlußsache.
Skybird
12-15-18, 07:52 PM
If you want to spank him, Jim, I hold him for you.
Jimbuna
12-16-18, 06:25 AM
If you want to spank him, Jim, I hold him for you.
Who?
Jimbuna
12-16-18, 06:28 AM
Now entering from left of the stage...the Lying King.
Theresa May has attacked one of her predecessors - accusing Tony Blair of "undermining" the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum.
She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46582705
Skybird
12-16-18, 07:37 AM
Who?
Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.
Jimbuna
12-16-18, 08:08 AM
Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.
Yeah, I can read edits, deletions etc. and never noticed initially but just as well common sense prevailed.
Skybird
12-16-18, 08:57 AM
Yeah, I can read edits, deletions etc. and never noticed initially but just as well common sense prevailed.
Holy cow - Jedi powers...!!! :o
Jimbuna
12-16-18, 09:00 AM
Holy cow - Jedi powers...!!! :o
No, just moderators priviledges to assist in keeping the boards within the rules :03:
Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.
Something about a German WW1 victory and the death of the stuck up British Empire. Not sure what that has got to do with throwing the book at MayBot but hey I don't care. When you drink great coffee who cares. :O:
Looks lke RUNAWAY MayBot is not going to hold the Brexit vote next week.
Catfish
12-16-18, 02:35 PM
Re Jim, sorry i had not enough time to react to the answer yet
I'll do my best to answer the above whilst readily admitting I'm pro Brexit.....
Who would have thunk lol
Patience with May eventually came to an end when Parliament (who are sovereign on such matters) grew tired of her weakness and inability to negotiate an acceptable deal, furthermore giving the nation a sense of a bullying position by the EU.
I see no weakness with May. What is an acceptable deal, what exactly does England want? "Nebulous" is exactly the word that describes England's "position". What is this position? The EU's position encompassing that of 26 other nations have been clear from day one. The only thing that changed is getting the demand down to 39 billions, from the former 100, as if that was nothing. Lots of projects will not be finished now because of this concession, including some in Ireland, Scotland, and England. A lot of countries are not amused at all about this concession. They will have to pay, because of your brexit.
The deal which would have been put before Parliament meant the UK would lose any negotiating and voting rights at the EU policy making entities, would have to abide by any decisions made by said countries and pay approx. £40 billion for the priviledge....REALLY!! So, nothing in effect would change and the cost was far too high anyway.
The UK leaves the EU and wants to keep voting rights. England has signed treaties for 7-year projects that will end in 2020, and this is what England has signed, officially, in those treaties. The European Union is based on the rule of law. England does not pay for a "priviledge", it pays 60 billions less than signed for, to finish projects it itself initiated, together with 27 other nations, and sure not for voting rights! That England keeps its voting rights until 2020 is ok in my book, but surely not further. And this possibility has nothing to do with paying, though the EU would be entitled to cancel the vote due to the break imho.
As i see it the english brexiters give a rat's anus about treaties and what they call friends and allies. They want to get out and do not care for consequences. If England wants to impose tariffs the EU will act accordingly. But it is not about tariffs, it is about holding back goods for days and weeks due to customs, because quality and seal is not longer guaranteed. All will be harder, all will be more expensive, and i cannot imagine to see any people benefit from that.
I can't help but wonder what the smaller member EU states (of whom there is a majority) will make of this because it is the larger countries who this will impact on most (all the net contributors) funnily enough.
This will happen when there is no deal. I take it those smaller countries will be really happy [/sarcasm] when England pulls that stunt.
As for the backstop, the UK will not put any physical border in place, the Irish are equally as adamant so let the EU decide how far they want to interfere with British teritorial land.
Now it is suddenly British territorial land, and the EU decides? Nope. It is not the EU that may erect any hard border between the Irelands, but Ireland and England. Alone. I wonder how Ireland thinks about what England wants.
You say the threat to leave NATO should not be taken too seriously? As for threatening to leave, i saw that coming since brexit. I just wonder what took them so long for this glorious idea. Maybe it is high time the EU rethinks its own military, if nations can just drop their commitment. Maybe the US is next, no one knows what can be expected from someone like Trump. Trust is being built in decades, but it takes months to destroy.
Cordial relations are good and well, just what do you think the Europeans's reaction would be when England just breaks out of a union that had become self-evident for decades for young people, for science and trade? Sympathy? Cordial relations, well. Maybe in a few years when the next generation does not remember exactly what happened?
You are right with the backstop. The Irish border has been the problem from day one, and everyone knew and knows it. the EU has made it clear from day one: "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it."
Just what is the UK's position, or better England's, on that matter? How do you intend to solve this problem? Yes, it is your problem. It is not the EU's task or even in its reach, capabilty or having a right to do that.
[...] I must say in particular that of the EU is not projecting a positive image of itself on the world stage.
Well "the EU" has mostly been portrayed in a bad light by some, and if you think about who is being served most by this portrayal you know by whom and why.
Regarding "bad light" it seems the world right now gets exactly that picture of England, or better its parliament. I still hope for "the best" (impossible after brexit), or at least for a reasonable outcome, but i have no idea how England wants to solve an impossible situation.
Good article, by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/24/eu-wont-miss-britain-after-brexit
New EU referendum would break faith with Britons, May to warn MPshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46586673
I am fed up with this women farting around ducking and diving all mouth no action!
We leave on WTO rules or we stay in the EU no half way house its do or do not.
ikalugin
12-17-18, 09:44 AM
As the recent trade history shows, WTO is not very good at promoting free trade.
Skybird
12-17-18, 10:01 AM
I see no weakness with May. What is an acceptable deal, what exactly does England want? "Nebulous" is exactly the word that describes England's "position". What is this position? The EU's position encompassing that of 26 other nations have been clear from day one. The only thing that changed is getting the demand down to 39 billions, from the former 100, as if that was nothing. Lots of projects will not be finished now because of this concession, including some in Ireland, Scotland, and England. A lot of countries are not amused at all about this concession. They will have to pay, because of your brexit.
Have you have imagined that those 100 billion maybe were exaggerated from day one on to let this settled value now appear as a big own sacrifice by the eU?
The UK now has many camps battling each other, which si their greatest handicap. But what the UK wants and offers, they have said relatvoey early on already. It just was not what the EU wanted. An in all points, the concessions were made by the UK, and I do not know of any signfivcant point where the EU made any. So much for compromise - in this draft deal, it is a one-way road only.
That some countries want one country to pay for something, does not automatically give them claim for this country. The UK agreed to plannings in the past BEFORE the maority of the referendu voters said they want to leave. That there thus must be an end to the UK payng for these things, is natural. Reason also would demand that the UK, even after a leave, keeps a say on all things it has agreed to continue paying for, since that also was part of the dcision why they earlier agreed to pay for them. You are absolutely biased and one-sided here.
If you ent a flat and then tell the landlord that you leave again some years later, you are under no obligation to endlessly pay a rent nevertheless. The transition period is limited, and has been cut even shorter by courts some years ago. Only deliveries to your old adress that you have ordered, must be paid for by yourself, even if you already have left, else they RTS.
In general you say that the UK shuld not even leave, not to mention: stop paying, becasue in the future EU states planned to have a profit from this net payer'S contributions. In my book that borders enslavement.
A people has no claim for other people. A people cannot own other people. A people does not live for the sake of having another people profiting from them.
The EU has to change its highflying plans. Well, what a shock. Many of them are wrong by their mere intention and content anyway.
The UK leaves the EU and wants to keep voting rights. England has signed treaties for 7-year projects that will end in 2020, and this is what England has signed, officially, in those treaties.
Under the premisse to have a say in them and remaining to stay in the EU. You can expect them to pay on only for things they have said yes to since the Brexit vote.
The European Union is based on the rule of law. England does not pay for a "priviledge", it pays 60 billions less than signed for,
It had not signed for that number, the EU tried to dicate it, and I remember very well how in the early months this numbers was miunted by Brussel higher and higher in a bid to scare the English away fro the Brewxit vote. Originally, Brussel wanted I think 45 billion. Then 60 billion. suddenly they talked of 79 billion, and finally they had 100 billion. Hilarious.
to finish projects it itself initiated, together with 27 other nations, and sure not for voting rights!
Again: under the premisse that they have a say in thse things and that the UK would remain to be a member of the EU.
That England keeps its voting rights until 2020 is ok in my book, but surely not further. And this possibility has nothing to do with paying, though the EU would be entitled to cancel the vote due to the break imho.
In which case the UK has the freedom to rejct any payment at all, of course. You want it all on your behalf, but you do not see that the past decisons were embedded in contexts that are n longer valid and that the deal is a give and take. So far the eU takes almsot all like it wanted it. I do not recall any of the outspoken goals of May havign been seen through by her, she had to call them off, one by one, all of them.
As i see it the english brexiters give a rat's anus about treaties and what they call friends and allies. They want to get out and do not care for consequences. If England wants to impose tariffs the EU will act accordingly. But it is not about tariffs, it is about holding back goods for days and weeks due to customs, because quality and seal is not longer guaranteed. All will be harder, all will be more expensive, and i cannot imagine to see any people benefit from that.
And that is why? Because th EU wnats to execute an exmaple on the UK, and refuses them trade conditions that the eU normally agrees to with states from outside Europe. The eU links this trade with potlical issues and fields that have nothign to do with trade in a bid to force their feet into the door again in the hope to break it wide open again later. The EU should be an economic cooperation union only, that was what the EEC was about. Today they cal themselves a community of values (whiole watering down these values by appeasement pokicy more and more and also actvely efusing to call their values they mean, and heir hisotrical roots, by their own names. I remind of the conflict abotuj even just the preambel of the dicate of Lisbon, where certain names and refernces to European history and Juaic-Christian cultural contexts were banned from being mentioned. It shoud not be like this. Own identity should not be up to negotiation, and trade should not be linked to demqanding that one can regulate the labour migration in the other'S country. These thigns have nothign to do with each other. also it is unacceptabl that a EU court that was called into existence to oversee that EU members follow their own internal EU rles and laws, shall have the right to govern intot he soveriengty of a nation that is no EU memeber at all. The eu has no problem to not do so with trade partners from abroad - but the UK is now to become the exception?
There sill is an underlying claim if Brussel for the UK. They do not accept their leave, and they do not plan to let them really go. That simpe it is. Its like with the Mafia. you do not leave the family - except with feet first.
This will happen when there is no deal. I take it those smaller countries will be really happy [/sarcasm] when England pulls that stunt.
You mean the net receivers are unlucky that one of their net payers refuses to feed them any longer? Dont worry, in the ECB panel of directors, the net payers have an always existing majority over the net payers, and an economical insignficant dwarf like Malta has the same power like the econimic heavyweight and most prominent financier of the E, Germany. And haven't they just decided to raise the eU budget anyway? The German government wastes the workers and employee'S stolen money for so many stdi things and the Germans like it, it doe snot matter that now we have to compnsate for theBritish absence as well. Its just stupid Gran money, so what is the problem? The Germans don't want it any different.
Now it is suddenly British territorial land, and the EU decides? Nope. It is not the EU that may erect any hard border between the Irelands, but Ireland and England. Alone. I wonder how Ireland thinks about what England wants.
Then fianlly accept, sinc eit was said severla time sby now, that the Northern Irelanders by huge majority wanted to stay in the UK, and in the EU, which is a contradicton. They cannot have both. It was the Northern Irish's decision, however.
You say the threat to leave NATO should not be taken too seriously? As for threatening to leave, i saw that coming since brexit. I just wonder what took them so long for this glorious idea. Maybe it is high time the EU rethinks its own military, if nations can just drop their commitment. Maybe the US is next, no one knows what can be expected from someone like Trump. Trust is being built in decades, but it takes months to destroy.
It takes two to ango, and if the EU jandles the ritish exit this brutally as we have seen so far, why shoudl the UK not be justified to pay back on equally brutla terms? The UK military is the most important one on the European continent, it has a global network of statiosn and bases, and the by far most capable intel apparatus in all Europe. Different to France the British nukes were fully committed to NATO defence and command, and the british still can maintain out of area operaiton on a scale where the French cannot compete with. All this gets so far underestmated inBrussel, and they think they an kick and bruise London without consequences. that is stupid. From a security standpoint, it is stupid to thorw the door into London's face lie this. Europe needs the British ilitary and inteol much,much more than the British military and intel needs that of Europe.
That I augh about the highflying plans for a European nified ilitary, is known by now.Natiosn that cannot even handle their own national defences and budgets, should be able to now finance even somethign bigger and more complex? BS. The experiences of insiders with the French-German brigae, teach some elssons. They are absolutely sobering.
Cordial relations are good and well, just what do you think the Europeans's reaction would be when England just breaks out of a union that had become self-evident for decades for young people, for science and trade? Sympathy? Cordial relations, well. Maybe in a few years when the next generation does not remember exactly what happened?
The Europeans have to learn that they may not be seen by others as the big shining saviors that they describe themselves as, usually. Take away the coluntariness in a relation and being-togather and you have everything taken aay already that is worth to be labelled as friendship. Force is force, nothing else.
There is no raosn why the eU and the UK should not be trading partners. The eu trades with many actors that are no EU members, without demanding them to obey EU interventions into their sovereingty. But with London they demand it? Why? Londown will not be EU memeber, so it falls not under EU legislation, end of message, live with it, period.
And if you piss this single actor too much, don'Ät be surorised that he may choose to show you a scnd stining finger then and withdrawing from the defenc eunion as well, telling you: your business, take care of it yourself, we're out of standign guard for you bullying us.
You are right with the backstop. The Irish border has been the problem from day one, and everyone knew and knows it. the EU has made it clear from day one: "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it."
Northern Ireleand is part of the UK, and so a hard border between Northern Ireland and the republic of Ireland principally does not violate the EUs single market at all. The problem lies in the potential of armed conflict due to religious sentiments between the Irish people. This indeed is an issue the Irish have to solve indeed, mainly the Northern Irish, and also London, since NI is part of the UK. Regarding the single market alone, the thing is very clear: the border between the UK and the eU after Brexit is marked by the channel - and by the border between the rEpublic and Northern Ireland. Mind you once again: the Northern Irish, so said Jim some weeks ago again, said by huge majority they want to stay with the UK, like the Falklanders and the people in Gibraltar. It may look strange to the foreigner like me, but I accept their wish, how could I not? As part of the Uk, he Irish voted on brexit, and found that the referendum by majority nevertheless voted for Brexit. In principle, there again is nothing wrong. One could as well try to make it an issue that maybe a majority in the district of Soho or Wimbledon voted against brexit, and now demands that the referendum majoirty should be overturned on behalf of the minorit yloosing it, at leats that London shuld stay in the EU while the rest of the UK leaves. That makes no sense. and is against the intention and the rules of a democratic majority decision, btw. You do not let votes repat ntil you have whyt you want, becasue then someboy else has not what he wnats and demands it to b repated once again, an as often untl, he has what he wants. An you do not hold majority votes only to have minorities telling the majority what to do.
Jimbuna
12-17-18, 10:02 AM
:salute:
Good article, by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/24/eu-wont-miss-britain-after-brexit
Yep, good article, certainly looks at matters from snother angle. I'm starting to wonder if the end game will be a UK general election snd the UK remaining in the EU :hmmm:
Bottom line: What a bloody mess.
@SKY....saved me the effort
IF...A general election is called jim I think the Conservatives will win but Labour will gain more seats. Result hung parliament and the Cons will have to work with Lab result six months down the line it will fall apart and they will hold another general election as they will not step aside for Labour off their own backs.
With luck the mighty STEED with his great ideas will change Parliament for the better, well I can hope can't I. :03: :haha:
Oh wait news just in Parliament has said no as we like the rotten system as it is.
OH BLEEPING BLEEP WE ARE BLEEPED.
BREAKING NEWS
Jeremy Corbyn tables no-confidence motion in PM
https://news.sky.com/story/live-theresa-may-to-condemn-calls-for-second-eu-referendum-11584184
well that will achieve nothing.
Jimbuna
12-17-18, 04:01 PM
Only time will terll but currently.....anything is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46599895
The gloves are off, the government has said there will be no debate and Labour has come back saying they will up the anti if they are stopped from having the debate.
UPDATE
Some more news from SKY
The Lib Dems, SNP, Green MP Caroline Lucas and Plaid Cymru have tabled a cross-party amendment to Corbyn's no-confidence motion in the PM.
This will alter Corbyn's motion to instead target the whole government rather than just May individually.
If passed, it would trigger the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act and lead to a general election, it is reckoned.
UPDATE
Confirmed - Government will not grant time for Labour’s no confidence motion in the PM. Downing Street source: “We are not going to allow time for a stunt.
Jimbuna
12-17-18, 04:21 PM
MPs to vote on Brexit deal on third week of January
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/may-mps-to-vote-on-brexit-deal-on-third-week-of-january/ar-BBR558z?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout
Jimbuna
12-17-18, 04:33 PM
Now entering from left of the stage...the Lying King.
Theresa May has attacked one of her predecessors - accusing Tony Blair of "undermining" the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum.
She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46582705
https://i.imgur.com/IYK4TnW.jpg
Jimbuna
12-17-18, 04:47 PM
Just had to post this, Ann being an old aquaintance of mine :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1IAVQw7zT4
Wow all that hot news yesterday fizzed away. Screw you media I'm not going the fall for it again. :O:
Jimbuna
12-18-18, 01:59 PM
Both sides are now at deadlock in this game of 'chicken' so let us see which side if any blinks first.
The cabinet has decided to "ramp up" preparations for a no-deal Brexit amid uncertainty over the fate of Theresa May's proposed EU exit deal.
It has approved £2bn to help if the PM's deal is rejected and the UK leaves on 29 March without an overall deal.
Letters will be sent to 140,000 firms updating them on what they should do while 3,500 troops will be put on standby to help government departments.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46600850
Just more evidence that our politicians are bloody awful useless wast of space......Oh man I could go on all night. :03: :)
Jimbuna
12-18-18, 02:08 PM
Yes we are all well aware of that.
Yes we are all well aware of that.
https://rlv.zcache.com.au/big_smile_happy_face_drawer_knob_srf-r95f84f7818be4b3aa45a36488e23c00d_zp2d5_540.jpg?rl vnet=1
Jimbuna
12-18-18, 02:22 PM
Brexit news latest: Theresa May dares Jeremy Corbyn to table vote of no confidence in her Government.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-dares-jeremy-corbyn-to-table-confidence-vote-as-call-for-motion-is-branded-a-stunt-a4019986.html
Jimbuna
12-18-18, 03:04 PM
Breaking News: Man United hire the perfect manager to ensure they stay in Europe.
https://i.imgur.com/RdlYCHY.jpg
Brexit news latest: Theresa May dares Jeremy Corbyn to table vote of no confidence in her Government.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-dares-jeremy-corbyn-to-table-confidence-vote-as-call-for-motion-is-branded-a-stunt-a4019986.html
I like this comment in the comments section..
It is staggering that with three months to go before Brexit day, which is currently set by default to be a crash-out, Mrs. May proposes to waste a month communing with her turkey and Mr. Crobyn proposes to engage in a pointless parliamentary war dance. How are families and businesses supposed to prepare for the future when they have been abandoned like this? Even as the Titanic was going down the crew managed to make itself useful.
Catfish
12-18-18, 04:26 PM
Corbyn and May and all others - the UK's government is more interested in slamming each other than stand united and making a reasonable proposal. The EU has been looking at that cockfight with raised eyebrows, waiting for years. Instead it seems as if the England expected the EU to solve the problem, while bashing and putting down the EU all the time.
Regarding Skybird's and Jim's 'answer' i will not waste time. A felt or perceived situation has little to do with facts. You either see it or you don't. You are either a hater or not.
“My toaster takes four attempts before bread goes brown,” tweeted the furious Ukip MEP David Coburn earlier this year. “Many thanks to EU.” (https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2016/jun/21/eu-refrendum-british-traditions-under-threat-brexit-leave-remain)
The EU has dealt with almost all nations of the world regarding taxes, trade standards and ease of hiring, producing, and whatnot, for more than 40 years.
From those 400+ treaties of what the EU initiated and signed as a bloc, the UK has signed 30 unilaterally. The 'rest' is being managed and done by the EU, with England's consent, and taking advantage of it.
This also includes landing fees for air lines on airports the world over, kerosine prices at intermediate stops or generally how to import or export goods of all kinds internationally, without fuss. The EU has received a lot of facilitation and rebate, because it represents the whole of Europe.
No single nation except maybe China or such will be granted such advantages.
For politicians, it is all a game. On the back of the people, and especially the young generation. Pride. I take more pride out of international discussion and trade and science, than of isolation and nationalism. But maybe we are indeed on a path back to the bad old times.
Jimbuna
12-19-18, 06:53 AM
EU to reveal no-deal plans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46617152
Jimbuna
12-19-18, 07:46 AM
Martin Lewis....he of Money Saving......ran a poll on his fb page over last couple of days. Completely unscientific.....but over 185,000 votes.....result 61% leave no deal, 39% remain...…
Of course, this is far less meaningful than when 1,400 people on YouGov voted 52% to remain....
:doh:
Jimbuna
12-19-18, 09:01 AM
It would appear the pantomime season is well and truly underway.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is facing calls to apologise for apparently calling Theresa May a "stupid woman" during Prime Minister's Questions.
The prime minister was mocking Mr Corbyn during heated exchanges, telling him to "look behind you" when he was caught on camera muttering words.
Mrs May hit back at Mr Corbyn, saying he had not tabled his promised no-confidence motion, and had then tabled one that was ineffective.
"I know it's the... pantomime season," she told MPs, "is he going to put a confidence vote? Oh yes he is," she said, prompting backbench Tories MPs to chant "oh no he isn't".
Continuing the pantomime theme, she told the Labour leader "look behind you - they are not impressed and neither is the country".
Mr Corbyn could be seen saying something under his breath in response.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689
Corbyn and May and all others - the UK's government is more interested in slamming each other than stand united and making a reasonable proposal.
Welcome to STEED's real world of observations. :)
Yep we got a clueless hell bent its my way and you shall follow and I shall run away Maybot. And I want a general election Jezzer who wants to be king. These two morons have been slagging each other off while the EU plays a clever hand and sits backs laughing at these two clowns. I urge everyone in the UK stop voting for these morons they have....FAILED!
There was a Police debate on the radio and you should have heard these serving and retired officers slamming this government saying crime is out of control and why? fixation on Brexit is there only focus!
It would appear the pantomime season is well and truly underway.
People should vote against Westminster....FAILED FAILED FAILED FAILED.
https://rlv.zcache.com.au/big_smile_happy_face_drawer_knob_srf-r95f84f7818be4b3aa45a36488e23c00d_zp2d5_540.jpg?rl vnet=1
I know, I'm doing it again jim. :DL
Jimbuna
12-20-18, 06:36 AM
Just to add a bit more confusion to this totally confusing matter, two of the top ministers are now suggesting different/rival Brexit 'Plan Bs' :doh:
Cabinet colleagues Andrea Leadsom and Amber Rudd have set out rival plans if Theresa May can't get her Brexit deal through Parliament.
The two ministers stressed that their top priority was securing Parliamentary backing for the prime minister's deal.
But Ms Rudd said a referendum was a "plausible" way forward if MPs were deadlocked.
Mrs Leadsom said a new referendum would be "unacceptable" and argued instead for a "managed no deal".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46631581
Nah I'm not going for it, just like Anna Soubry MP saying she will resign her seat if there is no deal Brexit. Yea sure you will. :roll:
Skybird
12-20-18, 03:20 PM
EU parliament threatens to let Brexit treaty collapse if it is not be given a greater say in Brexit things. :haha: Seems as if the English epidemia finally has reached the continent now. :har:
Jimbuna
12-21-18, 06:53 AM
The obvious splits in the Cabinet are now starting to be reported publicly.
Justice Secretary David Gauke has said he would be "very surprised" if the prime minister was prepared to back a no-deal Brexit, if her deal fails.
Mr Gauke also said he would find it "very difficult" to stay in cabinet, if that became government policy.
Cabinet splits have emerged over what should happen if the PM's withdrawal deal is rejected by MPs next month.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46639401
The Conservative Party is heading towards a "prolonged period" in opposition unless it adapts to modern Britain, George Osborne has said.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46655969
I still think the Tories will win but it will be a hung parliament.
Brexit would go ahead if Labour won snap election, says Jeremy Corbyn
The Labour leader says he would seek to secure a better deal than the one struck by Theresa May to allow Brexit on 29 March.https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-would-go-ahead-if-labour-won-snap-election-says-jeremy-corbyn-11588568
Oh look another moron who thinks the EU is open for mores talks! Get this into your thick heads you morons at Westminster the EU has said and keeps saying take it or leave it no more talks.
Jimbuna
12-22-18, 07:50 AM
https://i.imgur.com/5VMlE2E.jpg
Catfish
12-22-18, 11:22 AM
^ Hey this is why you become a politician! If all else fails ... :D
One of the very few I had respect for has passed away, Paddy Ashdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46662546
I did not agree with all he stood for but I did respect him as he did not act like that shower we have. A better class of politician whom had better standards.
Jimbuna
12-23-18, 06:35 AM
Not many like him left in Westminster.
RIP Paddy
Kettle crisps have issued a warning they could be moving aboard due to Brexit. I say good, I hope all the crisps cakes biscuits chocolate and all the rest can sod off. Britain's are to fat, the sooner we get back to a veg diet the better we all be.
Source SKY News. Sorry no links at the time of posting.
About time sugar was outlawed its a killer like cigarettes.
Jimbuna
12-24-18, 08:43 AM
May and Corbyn deliver Christmas messages.
Theresa May has used her Christmas message to praise the work of the Armed Forces, particularly in Syria and after the nerve agent attack in Salisbury.
The PM said UK forces had "continued to demonstrate why you are the finest in the world".
Meanwhile, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn paid tribute to those who emulate the Good Samaritan in his Christmas message.
He drew on the Christian parable to applaud those who help others.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46667891
Who cares, these bloody ding dongs should be sorting the bloody Brexit mess out instead of getting drunk as skunks.
STEED's end of the year message to Parliament.
GET BACK TO WORK YOU LOT BREXIT IS STILL A MESS.
It is disgraceful this lot sod off on holiday leaving the country in a mess. You lot are a sham who do not deserve our vote. This year yet again you have shown what a disgrace you are, acting like out of control kinda garden kids and spoiled little brats. You clearly do not put us the voter first who elected you as you are way to busy feathering your nests with golden eggs.
Do I see any hope for 2019?........NO I DO NOT! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
It must be Boxing Day and yes you got it its back in the news...
Labour is promising to toughen up the ban on hunting with dogs in England and Wales, saying it will consult on jailing those caught breaking the law.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46682660
Labour made a right mess of it last time, are they trying to correct their mess. :hmmm:
Jimbuna
12-26-18, 09:24 AM
Home Secretary Sajid Javid has defended highlighting the ethnicity of some grooming gangs.
The home secretary faced criticism for a tweet earlier this year referring to "sick Asian paedophiles".
But speaking on BBC Radio 4 Today, Mr Javid - who has Pakistani heritage - said that ignoring the ethnicity of abusers gives "oxygen" to extremists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46684638
Tough and brave words Sajid but in the meantime....prepare fo incoming.
The public could be put at risk if the UK leaves the EU in March without an official agreement, the UK's most senior police officer has said.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46693156
Project Fear at it again, just keep feeding the monster and forget about getting on with the job after all its far more easy to do that.
Moving on....
The 5p fee for plastic carrier bags in England will be doubled to 10p, and extended to all shops, under plans set out by the environment secretary.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46689684
You can make it £1000 for all I care, never use the bloody things. :O:
Jimbuna
12-27-18, 10:58 AM
I'd be having far greater security concerns over this...
The Defence Secretary has reportedly said he has "very deep concerns" about Chinese firm Huawei being involved in upgrading the UK's mobile network.
Gavin Williamson's comments - reported by the Times - came after some nations restricted use of the firm's products in 5G networks over security concerns.
MI6's head recently said Britain faced decisions on Chinese ownership of tech.
The UK says China is behind hackers targeting commercial secrets. Huawei denies any link to the Chinese state.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46690627
Mr Quatro
12-27-18, 12:19 PM
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48424154_10156946005742813_4728672341930803200_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=d1faf7e3a5bf2c4f9b034b7574b57f6d&oe=5CD310C9
^:haha:
We have to breakaway, the UK will be the springboard with our American friends to launch the second front against the EU after it starts WW3 with its army of darkness. :03:
I'd be having far greater security concerns over this...
Don't worry Jim Mrs May will save us all. :03:
Jimbuna
12-28-18, 08:02 AM
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48424154_10156946005742813_4728672341930803200_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=d1faf7e3a5bf2c4f9b034b7574b57f6d&oe=5CD310C9
Her's a few more...
https://i.imgur.com/Rr94gN9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TlpTYsj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EkVY5zR.jpg
Jimbuna
12-28-18, 08:14 AM
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has urged the prime minister to cut short MPs' Christmas break to allow for an earlier vote on her Brexit deal.
MPs are due back in the Commons on 7 January, and Theresa May has said the vote on the EU withdrawal agreement will take place the following week.
However, in an interview with the Independent website, Mr Corbyn said it must happen "as soon as possible".
A Downing Street source told the Press Association it was a "silly demand".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46697749
Why does he continue in this pathetic pointless manner when he doesn't have the gonads to push for a Parliamentary vote of no confidence in the government? :hmmm:
:nope:
Why does he continue in this pathetic pointless manner when he doesn't have the gonads to push for a Parliamentary vote of no confidence in the government? :hmmm:
:nope:
This lot should never had a Xmas break due to the bloody mess this lot have got us into thanks to these stupid morons. Shut your gob Jezzer I am sick and tired of you just as much as May.
SACK THESE MORONS NOW!
The home secretary has declared the rising number of migrants attempting to cross the English Channel a "major incident".https://news.sky.com/story/english-channel-migrant-crossings-a-major-incident-sajid-javid-11593555
Oh really you don't say well I be a drunken Irish man.
Home Office treat the situation as a major incident and has appointed a Gold Commander I don't give a stuff of this persons title I want action this day! Bloody committee meetings are not going to stop them you know! Bloody stupid titles are not going to stop them you know..AGAIN!
Catfish
12-28-18, 05:37 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/english-migrant-crossings-a-major-incident-sajid-javid-11593555
Oh really you don't say well I be a drunken Irish man.
So it was you who tried to migrate by swimming..
Jimbuna
12-29-18, 07:38 AM
Immigration minister Caroline Nokes is to visit Dover amid growing criticism of the government's handling of the surge in migrants crossing the Channel.
More than 220 people have tried the crossing in small boats since the start of November and Home Secretary Sajid Javid has declared a "major incident".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46706381
That's it then, everything sorted now no doubt :doh:
The UK will spend more than £100m chartering extra ferries to ease "severe congestion" at Dover, in the case of a no-deal Brexit.
Over the last few months, additional ferry contracts were awarded to French, Danish and British companies.
The contingency plans allow for almost 4,000 more lorries a week to come and go from other ports, including Plymouth, Poole, and Portsmouth.
The UK Chamber of Shipping said customs procedures were a bigger problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522
The extra capacity is all well and good but doesn't resolve the customs problem.
That's it then, everything sorted now no doubt :doh:
We can all relax the Gold Commander is doing his job keeping these illegals away. Shuffling paper committee meetings and interviews on the news while buffing up their gold bars. I feel so safe now I can get a good nights sleep knowing the Gold Commander has ordered a truck load of paper clips. :salute:
Jimbuna
12-29-18, 09:12 AM
Veteran Conservative MP John Redwood has been knighted in the New Year Honours List.
The former cabinet minister and leading Brexiteer is among a number of MPs to be recognised for their political and public service.
Sir John, who has represented the Berkshire town of Wokingham since 1987, is opposed to Theresa May's EU deal.
Tory ex-minister Gary Streeter and long-serving Labour MP Alan Campbell have also received knighthoods.
Decisions on awards for political and public service are made by a committee independent of government.
While senior Conservative and Labour figures sit on the body, and it is chaired by a Conservative peer Lord Sherbourne, it has a majority of members who are not affiliated to any political party.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46700430
For services to politics :doh:
https://media.makeameme.org/created/spock-redwoodno-way.jpg
Jimbuna
12-30-18, 07:22 AM
Home Secretary Sajid Javid is under increasing pressure to deal with the rising number of migrants crossing the Channel as he returns to the UK.
He has cut short his family Christmas break, but insisted there was "no one easy answer" as what he called a "major incident" unfolds off the south coast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46714553
I guess he must now have an inkling of how the likes of Greece and Italy must be feeling.
Brexit: Juncker tells UK to ‘get your act together’https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-juncker-tells-uk-to-get-your-act-together-1.3744406
I do agree why should the EU do all the work with stuff that clearly has nothing to do with. But they have not been 100% on the ball with us, true what did anyone expect why should they. The UK Government can not blame it all on the EU and its about time they got their act together or this country is going to the 4th world.
Jimbuna
12-30-18, 09:22 AM
https://i.imgur.com/QFYmCIC.jpg
Brexit is 50-50 if MPs reject Theresa May's deal, says Liam Foxhttps://news.sky.com/story/brexit-is-50-50-if-mps-reject-theresa-mays-deal-says-liam-fox-11594698
Better odds than I would give, time to pop down the betting office and put a tenner on..:03:
Jimbuna
12-30-18, 09:29 AM
A tenner, I thought someone of your means would put at least double that amount or even triple at thirty pence.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelcomeConventionalHydatidtapeworm-size_restricted.gif
Jimbuna
12-31-18, 05:26 AM
The issue of increasing numbers of migrants trying to cross the Channel in small boats to reach the UK has "no easy answers", the Home Secretary says.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46718366
Nothing beats stating the obvious :hmmm:
New EU rules on fishing quotas could have a "grave" impact on the UK's fishing industry, a House of Lords committee has said - just a day before the new policy is introduced.
Under previous rules, crews often discarded, into the sea, fish that took them over their quota for that species.
But under the new policy, fishers must bring the full haul back to shore. This change is to stop fish being wasted.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46718663
So?..I have to agree have you seen the amount of fish thrown back, its shocking! The extra fish should drive down the cost for fresh fish. I like fresh fish but its 99% of the time I can not pay the disgraceful shocking high prices for it.
Moving on...
Brexit is a "complete mess" and the country "cannot go on like this", Jeremy Corbyn has said in his new year's message to the country.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46721507
Must be great being in opposition where you don't have to show your cards. Let me take a shot at it...SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND BANKRUPT! :hmmm:
Jimbuna
12-31-18, 11:06 AM
Corbyn eh? :hmmm:
https://i.imgur.com/7QbymvD.jpg
Jimbuna
01-01-19, 07:28 AM
The UK can "turn a corner" and start to "put its differences aside" if Parliament backs the proposed Brexit deal, Theresa May has said.
In her new year message, the prime minister said 2019 would mark a new chapter for the country outside the EU.
Should MPs approve the exit terms later this month, she said the UK could "move forward together" and concentrate on other issues like housing and health.
Labour has said the Brexit process is a "complete mess" due to Tory divisions.
The UK is scheduled to leave the union on 29 March, but it is unclear what will happen if MPs reject the withdrawal agreement and the framework for future relations.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46721508
I'm still thinking/hoping a last minute compromise deal will be struck because I doubt the current 'deal' on offer is one that can carry a majority vote in Parliament.
Jimbuna
01-01-19, 01:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46725343
Two more cutters to be deployed with immediate effect.
I'm wondering if the French are turning a blind eye at their side of the channel despite claims they are preventing about half of those making the attempt.
I'm still thinking/hoping a last minute compromise deal will be struck because I doubt the current 'deal' on offer is one that can carry a majority vote in Parliament.
Maybot looked angry and delivered last year's New Year's Day speech again with a few extra's she copied off the back of a cereal box. :haha:
Jimbuna
01-01-19, 01:19 PM
Wasn't in the least bit impressed with any of the New Year speeches.
Wasn't in the least bit impressed with any of the New Year speeches.There all washout's jim we need a new political system and new party's and if that fails give the job to the chimps at London zoo. :)
Jimbuna
01-01-19, 01:33 PM
https://i.imgur.com/mRSzmKR.jpg
Jeff-Groves
01-01-19, 01:41 PM
we need a new political system and new party's
Try throwing a butt load of tea in a harbor!
Worked great for us!
Umm.... Well it started out good.
:hmmm:
Jimbuna
01-01-19, 01:57 PM
Try throwing a butt load of tea in a harbor!
Worked great for us!
Umm.... Well it started out good.
:hmmm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c7bswVxuKs
Jimbuna
01-02-19, 06:27 AM
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has defended the government's choice of a UK company with no ships as one of the providers of extra ferry services in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46735303
You just couldn't make this up Mr Grayling :)
Time for a sing a long..
Ding dong Mr Grayling is a nutter la la la la.
The new working year starts and the new year top story hike in train fares again...Look you stupid people stop paying and barge your way on the trains, they can not lock you all up too many of you lot too few prisons...COMMUTER PEOPLE POWER!
I'll de-lurk again and qoute these two posts I found in the TotalWar Center Political Mudpit thread on Brexit (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?761357-Brexit-Time-to-scrap-it-and-start-again&p=15718586#post15718586):
Is that not based on a misconception about what democracy is? The point is to elect people who can represent your interests better than you could ever do. Electing politicians is similar to picking the mechanic that fixes your broken car, your dentist to fix your teeth, your GP to recommend treatment for your illness. You wouldn't go to any of them either saying "this is what's wrong and here's what you're going to do to fix it. That's defeating the point.
So if there's a disconnect betwen what people say is wrong and the policies their politicians enact, then consider they may not be betraying you, but simply doing the best they can. So they should because if a hard brexit goes through and it works out badly, the same people who expressed that whish will be ready to crucify the politicians that made it happen.
So there's the problem with modern day democracy and referenda in particular: the lack of accountability on the part of voters who can gratuitously blame their politicians for the consequences of their votes. It could not be clearer in this instance: The people voted leave and at the next GE they voted to have it implemented by remainers http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/wallbashdc1.gif How was that ever going to work. And yet everyone's saying "get on with it already!"
..... Which is of course as i think we all have discovered part of the issue. The Brexit Referendum was specifically on leaving the EU- the future relationship, shape of the UK et al are all still in the prerogative of Parliament. May's deal can technically indeed be counted as 'leaving' (as is a Norway style deal, a Canada style deal etc). The issue being that brexiteers and remainers have many different groups inside these two overarching camps that all have competiting conceptions of what the future relationship will look like, both among parliament and the general public. Its why A) Brexit is toxic politically- there is no 'winning' particularly as there is no 'dominant' faction inside these groups- for instance my parents are brexiteers who despise the idea of a 'no-deal' and also hate May's deal for varying reasons. B) A lot of people (quite fairly) misunderstand the British parliamentary system and the role of referendums within it (i.e. they're horrid for it http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/tongue.gif). Once you've given your 'basic' marching orders (Leave) its entirely up to your MP's, the government and parliamentary parties how they do this. Providing the UK essentially is not listed as being 'part of the EU' everything was up for grabs the minute the referendum result was announced. Naturally many will feel betrayed or that this is unfair- they are right, but the UK does not have the mechanisms for the greater influence of direct democracy on policy beyond blunt (and kinda crap as we've seen) simple questions. What's worse is of course as the result is essentially stunted for purposes beyond the 'yes/no' for membership- and it was so close, anyone and everyone in parliament can use it- soft brexiteers, and even reamainers can and have been using it to legitimize their position, ERG style brexiteers, use it for their purposes, anyone can adopt the result as part of their platform and spin it. The referendum beyond providing a possible overall angle, is essentially useless (and indeed if somehow the Lib-dems got it, their quite clear they would overturn the whole thing- and arguably that's a legitimate position as they can point to the whole 'change mind/too hard' argument- whatever you think of that or not, the UK system allows them to do that, and again given the result with little to no parliamentary consequences of any meaningful scope as any support they'd garner to get into office, would be from remainers- thus in a GE platform they would be justified in doing so as fulfilling a manifesto promise). Again as i ranted before- the next GE can potentially see brexit overturned if a party who wins (or even gets into coalition with someone) promises in their manifesto to scrap brexit/rejoin (if its the GE shortly after).
We could be in the absolutely ridiculous situation given the perfect storm of non-sustainable result, no effort put in to 'win' the war and create a sustainable consensus post-referendum, the UK's parliamentary system and how how GE's spread the focus of issues to a broader level- where literally a year after we've left the EU, we join them again...
So i'd echo this- Anything that 'leaves' the EU as an official member fulfills the referendum. If people expected more, then we needed a reformed parliamentary system with a greater emphasis on direct democracy and not a model that actively tries to limit public opinion. The other constraints being brexit is very much 'party politics' and that again Parliamentary arithmetic favours remainers, and its highly unlikely this will change at the next GE given how constituencies work and also how the focus will probably once again (like 2017) be on the domestic front as Corbyn again shifts to the Conservatives failings here as politically its fertile ground.
Both points sum things up rather well, IMHO.
Mike.
Jimbuna
01-02-19, 10:51 AM
^ However or whichever way it eventually pans out will not change one fact....the country will remain hopelessly divided.
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has accused trade unions of driving the 3.1% increase in rail fares.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46731749
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! HAS THIS DING DONG'S CHEESE SLID OFF HIS CRACKER? YES
And now the boot is back, Osborne puts the boot in again..
Theresa May risks "destroying" the Conservatives' reputation for spending money wisely with her no-deal Brexit planning, George Osborne has warned.https://news.sky.com/story/george-osborne-warns-theresa-may-could-destroy-conservatives-economic-credibility-over-brexit-11597085
He loves putting the boot in, he clearly has not got over being sacked from the cabinet.
The government is set to launch a publicity drive to prepare the public for the possibility of a "no-deal" Brexit.https://news.sky.com/story/publicity-drive-to-prepare-public-for-possible-no-deal-brexit-11597637
Sounds to me its panic time and time to stock up in bake beans and batten the hatches down. :03:
A firm awarded a government contract to provide extra ferry services has used website terms and conditions apparently intended for a takeaway food firm.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46748193
:har: :har: :har: :har:
Moving on...
Brexit news latest: Major blow to Theresa May as EU confirms no further meetings on deal
A spokeswoman for European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the leaders of the remaining 27 countries "have been very clear" that what is on the table "will not be renegotiated".https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-major-blow-to-theresa-may-as-eu-confirms-no-further-meetings-on-brexit-deal-a4029831.html
Don' tell Maybot it will not compute.
DUP: There is no way we will vote for Theresa May's Brexit deal
The prime minister's government partners deliver a hammer blow with less than two weeks to go until the final vote.https://news.sky.com/story/dup-there-is-no-way-we-will-vote-for-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-11598488
Is it game over and run away, the clock is ticking the vote must be made for or against in days to come.
Jimbuna
01-04-19, 08:52 AM
Taoiseach (Irish PM) Leo Varadkar said he held a 40-minute phone call with German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday morning at her request.
He said they agreed to offer reassurances and guarantees to the UK, but would not change the existing deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46751274
Put them in writing then.
A petition calling for leaders' TV debates to become a "regular fixture" during general elections is to be discussed in Parliament.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46746019
No one really gives a toss about this shower. Just a wast of air time as they spout hot air and strut around like a peacock vote for me and you be free. Naff off I rather watch a good movie.
Jimbuna
01-05-19, 07:01 AM
There is "no way" the Democratic Unionist Party will back Theresa May's Brexit deal, a leading figure has said.
Sammy Wilson told the BBC he was "more alarmed" than ever about what the deal would mean for Northern Ireland.
The DUP, which props up Theresa May's government, has held talks with the PM in recent days as she tries to persuade MPs to back the deal later this month.
The PM is seeking further legal assurances from the EU but it has said negotiations will not be re-opened.
The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46757459
The vote due in less than two weeks already looks dead in the water.
So, unless there is a swift change of mind by MPs on both sides of the house and no last minute concessions from the EU it would appear the UK will leave the EU without a deal or maybe even decide to remain :hmmm:
Catfish
01-05-19, 07:07 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/03/police-reinforcements-for-northern-ireland-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit-1000-officers-training-trouble-hard-border
Please, not again :hmmm:
Jimbuna
01-05-19, 07:10 AM
^ Hopefully not Kai.
I would place my bet on staying in the EU and just to calm down a little but not much the extreme brexit mob there will be a excuse. What that will be don't ask me I'm not the government. :)
Jimbuna
01-06-19, 07:11 AM
Theresa May has said the Commons vote on her Brexit deal will "definitely" go ahead next week as she vowed to redouble her efforts to win MPs round.
She said she would set out new measures on Northern Ireland and look at giving MPs more say in shaping negotiations over future trade relations.
Warning of "uncharted" territory if MPs rejected the deal, she declined to rule out holding more than one vote.
But one Tory Brexiteer said support for a no-deal exit was "hardening".
And a poll carried out for the People's Vote campaign suggests fewer than one in four voters support the prime minister's Brexit deal.
The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46772601
@Sky...I'm beginning to come round to your earlier comments in the sense that I suspect this bugga has an alternative agenda and may (no pun intended) actually have planned this mess on purpose to satisfy her own preferred end game.
Jimbuna
01-07-19, 12:04 PM
Theresa May has said she is working on getting further assurances from the European Union so she can win the Commons vote on her Brexit deal.
The PM said that after delaying the vote last month, there was "some further movement from the EU" at December's European Council.
She said further measures would be set out ahead of the vote, which government sources say is set for 15 January.
However, the EU Commission has said there will be no renegotiation.
A spokesman said "everything on the table has been approved and... the priority now is to await events" in the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46784643
She is waisting her time and energy......wait until she loses the Commons vote on 15th and then the EU will reconsider if it so chooses.
Once again tonight the EU has stated no more nogations its over. I am getting bloody fed up with MayBot's lack of understanding what this means.
Anna Soubry: Speaker urges police to tackle MP harassmenthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46789601
I'm no fan of Soubry and find her tiresome but for a bunch of loony brexiteers to call her a Nazi they show themselves up, try reading some books on the ere you morons.
As for the Speaker it seems a bit rich coming from him as he has been in the dog house on more than one occasion for his comments.
BREXIT
PM faces Commons defeat which could shut down her government
We have a government! :o There was I thinking it was a bunch of clowns running the country.
Senior Conservative and Labour MPs have joined forces in an attempt to stop a "no-deal" Brexit.
Tory MP Nicky Morgan and Labour's Yvette Cooper have tabled an amendment to the Finance Bill which would limit the government's spending powers in the event of the UK leaving the European Union without a deal.https://news.sky.com/story/pm-faces-commons-defeat-which-could-shut-down-her-government-11601611
Jimbuna
01-08-19, 12:18 PM
The mayor of Ostend has told the BBC the Belgian port will not be ready for a new ferry line in time for Brexit.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46799136
I'd have thought it already obvious that neither side of the Channel will be ready in time.
Jimbuna
01-08-19, 02:44 PM
MPs have backed measures designed to thwart preparations for a no-deal Brexit, by defeating the government in the House of Commons.
They backed an amendment to the Finance Bill, which would limit spending on no-deal preparations unless authorised by Parliament, by 303 to 296 votes.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46803112
The PM faces yet another Commons vote defeat and this time it was twenty of her own MP's who refused to back her.
When will this woman get the message and stop being so stubborn?
Skybird
01-08-19, 04:29 PM
Put them in writing then.
Not relevant whether reassurances are agreed on in spoken word of writing. Its legally not binding. It just does not matter.
When will this woman get the message and stop being so stubborn?
She has cornered herself and cant get out. She has no other option anymore than to stick to the drivel she started. Her last and final mistake was that she signed that agreement with the EU on the negotiated stuff. This was what finalised it from the EU's point of view, happily closing the door - the EU got all what it wanted.
On May's defence it has to be said that she never had any realistic chance to get anything more than just this what was agreed to by the EU. All this British thinklign and talking about negotiating with the EU and negotiating a deal and getting specila status and German car makers and Merkel coming to the rescue, were self-deceptions from day one on.
One could have skipped the whole negotiating part completely already two years ago. The EU wanted to execute an intimidating example, and the EU is getting what it wanted form all beginning on. May had no chance. That she additionally suffers from a serious case of reality denial nevertheless, did not make a difference, but is a note-worthy point for the hisotry books' appendices.
When will this woman get the message and stop being so stubborn?Never she be on the sea bed in denile that the ship was sinking and has now sunk!
Jimbuna
01-09-19, 07:03 AM
Theresa May is launching a fresh push to convince MPs to back her Brexit deal as they begin five days of debate.
The prime minister cancelled a vote on her deal last month at the last minute to avoid a humiliating defeat.
She is hoping new proposals on Northern Ireland will change enough MPs' minds to save the deal.
But the DUP have already rejected the plans - and rebel Tories are planning a move that could give MPs more say over what happens if her deal is rejected.
The MPs, headed by former Tory ministers Oliver Letwin and Dominic Grieve, helped inflict a defeat on the government on Tuesday on an amendment aimed at making it more difficult to leave the EU without a deal.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46805269
You just couldn't make this stuff up....
She wins a confidence vote which means she can't be challenged for a further year so remains seriously stubborn and intransigent thereby running the risk of alienating more of her core supporters yet running the risk of bringing about a general election!!
The DUP has once again rejected MayBot's new worded document that changes nothing to the agreement...WHY BOTHER!
As Brexit debate begins, PM fails to win over Northern Irish kingmakershttps://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/as-brexit-debate-begins-pm-fails-to-win-over-northern-irish-kingmakers-idUKKCN1P30MD
I now feel old Jezzer can sit back and take the keys to No.10. MayBot has failed and she will loose voters as they will punish the Tories even if that means letting Jezzer in for a term.
Its painful watching PMQ's as MayBot trys to flog her deal that no one wants. This women must be removed from office she is damaging the country with her bloody mindedness its my way or the highway!
Jimbuna
01-09-19, 07:37 AM
The highway it must be then.
Skybird
01-09-19, 07:51 AM
You just couldn't make this stuff up....
She wins a confidence vote which means she can't be challenged for a further year so remains seriously stubborn and intransigent thereby running the risk of alienating more of her core supporters yet running the risk of bringing about a general election!!
But what do you expect her to do now? There is nothing left she could do.The EU is where it wanted to be: in a position where it can mercilessly strangle the UK. May helped to achieve that position, and now cannot reverse that anymore. There will be no renegotiations- And with the recent defeat in parliament, she also cannot execute Brexit without a deal. Since she will not get another deal than the one there is now, and this deal will not pass parliament, Brexit thus can not happen.
Plain logic until here. But then, its politicians. Logic usually is the first victim in their manouvers.
Jimbuna
01-09-19, 07:54 AM
But what do you expect her to do now? There is nothing left she could do.The EU is where it wanted to be: in a position where it can mercilessly strangle the UK. May helped to achieve that position, and now cannot reverse that anymore. There will be no renegotiations- And with the recent defeat in parliament, she also cannot execute Brexit without a deal. Since she will not get another deal than the one there is now, and this deal will not pass parliament, Brexit thus can not happen.
Plain logic until here. But then, its politicians. Logic usually is the first victim in their manouvers.
One of these three outcomes...
1) A second referendum.
2) Remain.
3) General Election.
I wouldn't like to make a call on this but one thing I am confident of is the fact that relations between the UK and EU have deteriorated and will take a long time to repair.
EDIT: I should have included an extention of Article 50 in the above list but I'm wondering what point would an extension be if all parties are completely divided.
ikalugin
01-09-19, 08:44 AM
Reminds me of:
https://youtu.be/ZVYqB0uTKlE
(((BREAKING NEWS)))
The government has LOST the amendment vote to force the government to publish its plans for Plan-B within three days.
PLAN-B is that handing out suicide pills? :hmmm: :haha: :o
I agree with Beth Rigby on SKY News May has lost control of her cabinet and Parliament.
Vote Result
Yes 308
No 297
Majority 11
https://news.sky.com/story/live-brexit-deal-critics-trying-to-deny-reality-pms-deputy-11602548
One of these three outcomes...
1) A second referendum.
2) Remain.
3) General Election.
I wouldn't like to make a call on this but one thing I am confident of is the fact that relations between the UK and EU have deteriorated and will take a long time to repair.
EDIT: I should have included an extention of Article 50 in the above list but I'm wondering what point would an extension be if all parties are completely divided.
Just to add to that jim, if the government looses the vote next week Labour could call for a vote of no confidence in the government. But I suspect they will not as the DUP said in that case they would vote for the government.
Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn demands election to 'break deadlock'https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46824125
Election part aside why is he asking other party's to support vote of no confidence in the government when the LibDem's SNP Greens have been for months telling him to do it.
Jimbuna
01-10-19, 08:24 AM
Brexit debate live: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-46784460
BREAKING BREXIT NEWS
The former head of MI6 has written to Conservative chairs urging them to tell MPs not to back Theresa May's Brexit deal because it threatens "national security".https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-mays-brexit-deal-threatens-national-security-ex-mi6-chief-sir-richard-dearlove-warns-11603738
That will put the cat among the pigeons. :ping:
Jimbuna
01-10-19, 10:56 AM
Campaign Fear :yawn:
Jimbuna
01-10-19, 12:37 PM
Theresa May has spoken to the leaders of two of the biggest unions in the UK as she continues to try to build support for her Brexit deal.
The PM spoke to Unite's Len McCluskey and the GMB's Tim Roache by phone on Thursday in what her spokesman described as "constructive" calls.
He said Mrs May was undertaking "widespread engagement" about the deal.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46817503
Well she is certainly wasting her time and breathe there.
Clarkson puts the boot in on Brexit leave...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1070262/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Clarkson-UK-EU-Jaguar-Land-Rover-no-deal-vote-referendum
Jimbuna
01-11-19, 06:52 AM
Clarkson puts the boot in on Brexit leave...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1070262/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Clarkson-UK-EU-Jaguar-Land-Rover-no-deal-vote-referendum
When asked by LBC's Faye Lyons White whether he is worried about Brexit, Mr Clarkson said: “Of course, there’s nobody in Britain today who isn’t worried.
“I’ve got three children and they're in their early 20s and you look at their life and think ‘why did you not get up and vote?’
“None of them did.
“Nobody under 25 got up and voted otherwise we would be Remaining - ‘oh, I can’t be bothered’.”
So precisely who's fault is that then Jeremy?
Jimbuna
01-11-19, 07:26 AM
Meanwhile, a certain other Jeremy is not as well thought of as he would have us believe...
Jeremy Corbyn slides in approval ratings in spite of Tory schisms.
Only 25% of voters thinks Jeremy Corbyn is decisive, according to a survey, down from 31% in October. The Labour leader’s fall to his lowest score at any point since the 2017 general election came despite most voters seeing the Tory party as divided following a week of Brexit infighting.
Corbyn also recorded his lowest score for being trustworthy and someone that sticks to his principles, according to an Opinium poll of 2,016 adults online on 13 and 14 December, falling below the prime minister. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/15/jeremy-corbyn-slides-in-approval-ratings-in-spite-of-tory-schisms
Jimbuna
01-11-19, 09:37 AM
A bit of food for thought from an MEP
https://i.imgur.com/RfW1aHA.jpg
Nice one:
David Lammy MP:
Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns: the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel that they have been left behind. I say that we must not patronise them with cowardice. Let us tell them the truth. Let us tell them, “You were sold a lie. Parts of the media used your fears to sell papers and boost viewing figures. Nigel Farage and the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) exploited the same prejudice to win votes. Shame on them. Immigrants have not taken your jobs; our schools and colleges failed to give you skills.
Hospitals are crumbling not because of health tourists, but because of decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone. People cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because Mohammed down the road moved in. Wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country.
Blame us; blame Westminster: do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes. And do not be angry at us for telling you the truth; be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie.
LINK (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/aelx3t/david_lammy_i_say_we_must_not_patronise_labour/)
Mike.:hmmm:
Skybird
01-11-19, 02:44 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46798281
And this outspoken opposition [German] MP makes the striking comment that, while he says he's been lobbied by plenty of business and industry figures concerned about a no-deal Brexit, not one of them wants the German government to take a softer approach, or offer more concessions to Britain.
Neither, significantly, does the powerful German car industry. Britain is its largest export market. Manufacturers have warned that a no-deal Brexit would be profoundly damaging. Bernhard Mattes, the president of the German car manufacturers association (VDA), says that such a scenario would result in tariffs, tricky logistics, higher costs and must be avoided.
Nevertheless, when he sits down with Angela Merkel, he says, he doesn't advocate or lobby for a different approach to Britain and the negotiated Brexit deal.
"The priority for us is the remaining 27 member states, that we stay together," he says. "That has to be first priority and that we don't make concessions that would invite others to go the same way."
Say the Germans. ^
Brexit could be cancelled if MPs vote down the deal reached with Brussels, the foreign secretary has warned.https://news.sky.com/story/voting-down-brexit-deal-risks-cancelling-brexit-foreign-secretary-11604297
I am sick to death with it all and it looks like this crap is going to go on pass Tuesday vote.
In response to David Lammy MP yes some what he said I agree but as norm with that lot at Westminster they don't tell all the truth. Both Labour and the Conservatives are guilty of using the NHS as some political point scoring ball, both sides are guilty of years of neglect and under funding.
skidman
01-12-19, 08:10 AM
A voice of reason:
https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1083498634904256516
Jimbuna
01-12-19, 08:11 AM
"The priority for us is the remaining 27 member states, that we stay together," he says. "That has to be first priority and that we don't make concessions that would invite others to go the same way."
I think the last line of your quote just about says it all Sky :yep:
Let's get this straight about Labour, they are not interested in getting into power to sort MayBot's Brexit mess out. All they are interested in is being in power and nothing more. True to say they are all like that but when Labour keeps banging on about fixing it you have to ask how? All the doors are shut and bolted so there is sod all they can do.
Blocking Brexit could lead to a surge in far-right extremism in the UK, a cabinet minister has said.
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling told the Daily Mail that not leaving the EU would cause the 17 million people who voted for Brexit to feel "cheated".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46847169
I voted leave and if we stay so be, both sides told massive lies and the end product is a bloody disgraceful mess. Better off staying in at least we know what we are up against. As for this surge of right wing yea sure what ever.
Jimbuna
01-12-19, 10:46 AM
Conservative rebel Dominic Grieve has urged the prime minister to delay Brexit if her EU withdrawal deal is rejected by MPs next week.
Mr Grieve, who backs calls for another referendum, said she could remove the 29 March date from UK legislation and ask the EU for more time.
Cabinet ministers who oppose leaving the EU without a deal had a "duty to resign" if she refused to do so.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46840589
This is the guy who was sacked by Cameron when he was the PM and as far as I can ascertain represents a constituency that narrowly voted to leave the EU.
He should soon find himself persona non grata in his party and possibly face de-selection as well?
I'm beginning to think the end result will be a remain position.
A blast from the pass calls for a people's vote.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46851664
Jimbuna
01-13-19, 07:16 AM
A failure to deliver Brexit would be "a catastrophic and unforgivable breach of trust in our democracy", Prime Minister Theresa May has warned.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46853689
Trust? I wasn't aware there was any remaining :hmmm:
^Democracy!....You mean we put one of you lot into power and you go on to betray the voters.
The Sunday papers are full of Brexit and in my opinion they all point to one thing. Parliament is dysfunctional.
Jimbuna
01-13-19, 08:10 AM
https://i.imgur.com/BA0Po7O.jpg
The government has made a fresh plea to MPs to get behind Theresa May's Brexit deal in Tuesday's crucial Commons vote.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46853689
I say stuff it all its failed the whole thing was treated as a joke so lets move on and forget it. Granted that's a lot of money down the drain and leave voters will be angry.
The whole thing has been a mess from start to right up to now and beyond.
REPORT COMING IN ON THE RADIO.....The EU is preparing to delay Brexit to July.
Skybird
01-14-19, 02:56 AM
Is the cat now out of the bag?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46856149
Jimbuna
01-14-19, 05:30 AM
Is the cat now out of the bag?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46856149
Could well be Sky...
If May loses the vote as predicted and expected I'm hoping a full list of which way each MP voted will be published so they can be held to account by the electorate for their actions. In particular those who vote against it despite their constituencies voting to leave.
They should be held further accountable for making it easier for the crazy gang to get the keys to No 10.
Jimbuna
01-14-19, 05:41 AM
https://i.imgur.com/YBWaIUz.jpg
ikalugin
01-14-19, 06:23 AM
https://youtu.be/QurCB1lCHp0
I am not posting links until Wednesday due to lots of "FAKE NEWS" about like Tory MP's are flocking to May to get the vote through.
Here is how I see it, May will be defeated if its a big one I can not see her lasting six months. If its a moderate defeat she will remain in power as damaged goods. And if its a minor defeat she will go on until she steps down shortly before the next general election.
In the first two cases parliament will do its upmost to remain in the EU. In the minor case take up the extension offer from the EU.
Jimbuna
01-14-19, 12:48 PM
Watching the parliamentary debate this afternoon I got the impression in response to one of the questions she could well be gone by April :hmmm:
Jimbuna
01-14-19, 12:53 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Srt1lm4.jpg
So old Jezzer is going for it by calling for a vote of no confidence in the government, is he aware the chances are not good. Anyway I'm hearing this will change British politics for the better. What a load of dribble, this shower will continual to walk over the voters. You work for them and don't forget it.
Catfish
01-15-19, 05:14 AM
^^ Since Landrover and Jaguar belong to Tata Motors in India, maybe a shift of production to this country would be better? :03:
Seriously does anyone who rejects May's plan at least know what is written in it? Because from what i have to read no one has the faintest idea. Boris Johnson and those 'patriots' slam May for Ireland, i just wonder what they want to do instead? Get out Ireland of the EU by force? If those have their say it will be the end of the UK.
Jimbuna
01-15-19, 05:16 AM
So old Jezzer is going for it by calling for a vote of no confidence in the government, is he aware the chances are not good. Anyway I'm hearing this will change British politics for the better. What a load of dribble, this shower will continual to walk over the voters. You work for them and don't forget it.
To win that vote he needs every member in his party plus every member of all the other opposition parties plus the ten DUP members to vote against the government.
Not gonna happen...simples.
Jimbuna
01-15-19, 05:19 AM
^^ Since Landrover and Jaguar belong to Tata Motors in India, maybe a shift of production to this country would be better? :03:
Seriously does anyone who rejects May's plan at least know what is written in it? Because from what i have to read no one has the faintest idea. Boris Johnson and those 'patriots' slam May for Ireland, i just wonder what they want to do instead? Get out Ireland of the EU by force? If those have their say it will be the end of the UK.
Tis one big pan of confusion Kai and I'm simply glad that we are coming to the end game whichever or whatever that may turn out to be.
I said a few posts ago that the tide was shifting towards a remain position and I still feel that way but heaven only knows what future relationships will be like.
Skybird
01-15-19, 06:52 AM
Mays defeat is almost certain, but the real question is what they will do after today. Stick with hard Brexit, which i doubt they will, or ignore the referndum and stay in the EU? Big humiliation, an essential display of politician'S disrespect for the referendum, and a triumphant propaganda victory for the EU: Once the EU's, forever the EU's. There is no opting out of its treaties. Long live the EU superstate.
And a second referendum? Would immensely deepüen the rifts and lead to a polarization of civil society that may be really dangegrous for the stability of it. Plus it would rape "democracy's" holy grail: the majority decision principle.
When little kids are too small to play responsibly with matches, you send them on an even bigger playground where they can play with barrels of fuel and open fire. Logical. And where adults act corrupteldy on a limited scale, and you expand their reach and freedoms for decision making, they will not grow the consequences of their corruption and their seflish basic attitude at all, because it is a sane, reasonable world where power-hungry people act good and nicely and nobody seeks to push his priviliges to the max. Dozens and dozens of different cultures and ethnicities - and we are all a happy family.
The answer is not more and more and bigger and bigger state and more and more fat cats - the answer is to cut back states and deny fat cats their playgrounds and give people back their self-responsibility.
Jimbuna
01-15-19, 11:19 AM
^ I'm not sure what will happen after May is defeated tonight (I suspect) but whatever the future holds, matters are about to become very interesting.
One outcome I certainly don't want is to see Corbyn end up with the keys to No 10.
Skybird
01-15-19, 12:32 PM
One outcome I certainly don't want is to see Corbyn end up with the keys to No 10.
So I take it this money-greedy, revisionist Nazi that you are is against social justice, freedom and equality and everyone being his brothers' keeper and emphatic servant? :hmmm:
:O:
Skybird
01-15-19, 02:45 PM
432 : 202 .
Clearer than clear.
More than two thirds against. Any PM with even just a minimum of format and character would step down now immediately.
Theresa May says it is clear MPs do not support the deal.
However, she says that "tonight's vote tells us nothing about what it does support, nothing about how or even if it intends to honour the decision that people took in a referendum".
"EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU deserve clarity as soon as possible," she says, as do businesses and ordinary people.
The focus now is confirming whether the government still has Parliament's confidence, she says, [...]
With a minimum of format and character, I said. It was not meant to imply that the minimum would be met in May's case. Not to mention reasonability, and brains.
Jimbuna
01-15-19, 06:15 PM
If she stepped down she would open the door to Corbyn.....no thanks.
Catfish
01-16-19, 05:07 AM
It took two years of negotiation, and the emerging content is outlined here:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/14/theresa-mays-brexit-deal-everything-you-need-to-know
Not bad at all except the Ireland question. And now it is all in a shambles..
So the fuss is about the irish border, nothing else. I do not see how the UK wants to solve this. The relation between the Irelands and England has never been properly cleared up and solved.
Ah i forgot.. Skybird for the rescue.
Jimbuna
01-16-19, 06:02 AM
I agree and 'shambles' is putting it mildly.
Tonight we have the confidence vote that was predicted by many and with the support of the ten DUP members May should survive this.
What she proposes next is to consult with senior members of all political parties, something her arrogance should have allowed two years ago.
Corbyn remains ever the hypocrit insisting on a customs union, a position he has argued against for a great many years so ultimately unless the EU throw in a sweetener/bone or two I doubt any consensus of agreement will be reached and the UK will remain in the EU.
Politics, don't you just love it.
I missed it all, some of us were at work you know! :stare:
The lost was not news what was news was how big it would be and it was a big one. In fact the biggest in history and that women has got the bare face cheek to remain as PM! Thanks to the fixed term Parliament act. And on the back of that mad dog Jezzer went for it, the DUP and Mogg's hard line group will back her and the rest will fall in line. Jezzer's lust for power is now showing like a junkie needing a fix fast.
All this has shown me is to back my argument up...Westminster is a den power crazed morons who lust for power and to hell with common sense and the voters. Westminster needs the biggest radical change for the better but it will never happen. They know it and love it, the voter is dumb. I am so glad I do not vote any more, I'm one of the very few who woke up.
Brexit: How did my MP vote on Theresa May's deal?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46885027
I noted my Tory MP voted against.
Jimbuna
01-16-19, 09:27 AM
My MP voted against as well which is hardly surprising because I'm amazed a little over 200 actually voted for it.
CDR DPH
01-16-19, 10:25 AM
Leave without a deal in March.
Leave tariffs and import duties at current levels to keep goods moving in and out.
Figure out exactly what the UK Govt wants to achieve from all this.
A new negotiating team goes to Brussels with a one-time offer - "for ₤39 B, the UK wants this and this and this... You can have the money or you can have the UK compromise on a negotiated settlement, but you (the EU) cannot have both - choose."
Jimbuna
01-16-19, 10:37 AM
The buggas have obviously hung on to my contact details because this email arrived less than an hour ago...
https://i.imgur.com/zlZNXby.jpg
Skybird
01-16-19, 11:46 AM
Brace yourself - Corbyn's coming: get your sit-out box now! :D
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-46814527
Well, today I have not much to say on all this, for the fifth of six builds in the Early Access program for Assetto Corsa Competizione is coming this evening, giving me access to the track of Zolder and the Jaguar GT3 car, which i have never driven before in any sim. Since Jaguar is not British anymore since 2008, Brexit debates cannot compete with the importance of this release, I admit. :O:
Jim, you will have to lay it on the line and tell them to get stuffed and go to hell while that mad dog jezzer and his vile club rule the roost.
Sky..
So-called Brexit survival kits costing almost £300 are being sold ahead of the UK leaving the EU. Here is the case of some one making a fast buck from fear and stupidity.
No confidence vote result
For the government 325
Against the government 306
Mayority 19
And MayBot tells old mad dog jezzer kiss my booty! :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46899466
Cyborg322
01-16-19, 02:38 PM
the only thing you can have confidence in is this whole debacle is this going to drag on even longer
the only thing you can have confidence in is this whole debacle is this going to drag on even longer
Bang on the money. :)
MayBot is to start talking to the leaders of the opposition tonight after shes had a few bottles of champagne.
Bleiente
01-16-19, 03:10 PM
"Great Britain" will not be dismissed from the EU unless you all want to go hungry.
Maybe you have not understood, you are the field and we are the bread. :03:
Cyborg322
01-16-19, 03:24 PM
"Great Britain" will not be dismissed from the EU unless you all want to go hungry.
Maybe you have not understood, you are the field and we are the bread. :03:
Your bread may be toast
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 05:20 AM
Brace yourself - Corbyn's coming: get your sit-out box now! :D
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-46814527
Well, today I have not much to say on all this, for the fifth of six builds in the Early Access program for Assetto Corsa Competizione is coming this evening, giving me access to the track of Zolder and the Jaguar GT3 car, which i have never driven before in any sim. Since Jaguar is not British anymore since 2008, Brexit debates cannot compete with the importance of this release, I admit. :O:
Reminds me of the same scaremongering that took place as the millenium approached.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 05:39 AM
Meeting the other party leaders is all well and good but I seriously doubt there will be any agreement everyone can sign off on.
Corbyn? Simply too embarrassing to talk about but he now finds himself stuck between a rock and a hard place so absolutely no sympathy there.
There is no Commons majority for any outcome so I'm sticking with my gut instinct that the UK will remain in the EU.
With todays announcement that Hitachi are about to halt work on the UK nuclear plant at Wylfa Newydd doesn't help either.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46900918
Mad Dog Jezzer laid his RED LINES down last night which MayBot could not agree to so he naffed off home for a cry. Today the Mad Dog is calling for a general election and making his big promises vote for me and it will be a new golden age...SOD OFF. The times I hear that rubbish from all of you lot makes me laugh.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 06:49 AM
An interesting opinion from another forum I frequent.
A second referendum with a vote to leave would finish things for good, but ain't going to happen.
People should be in no doubt that the other EU members, on a geopolitical level, don't like or care about us as a people, they just like our net contribution to their funds. There should have been no doubt from the beginning that we were going to get any kind of helpful Brexit deal- which might encourage others to follow our lead. If we leave and stop paying in, it means that the rest have either to pay in more to cover the loss, or make cutbacks- from their viewpoint detestable options that they're all spitting tacks about. None of them give 2 figs about UK jobs or our economic prospects, and if we chicken out now and go crawling back, the EU will rightly recognize that we are weak, spineless and all talk but no trousers. It will be an absolute charter to allow the EU to bully us about at make decisions that could be contrary to UK interests, because they will know without any doubt that whatever they do, however corrupt and wasteful the EU gets, we will stay as a member, put up with things and support their decisions with our on going membership and funding, no matter what.
We have no choice but to leave now. A couple of years ago we challenged them to a game of chicken, they have fought back hard as you would expect, and we have to keep our nerve to win at whatever cost as the alternative- giving in- will be even worse.
When we leave, at the very least it will force the rest to re-examine how the whole shoddy EU outfit is managed in the future.
Catfish
01-17-19, 07:05 AM
^ lol of course. It is all the fault of the EU.
"People should be in no doubt that the other EU members [...] don't like or care about us as a people, they just like our net contribution to their funds."
Oh, perfectly clear. "We" don't like you, only your money. If it helps you keep thinking that.
https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-city-exclusive/exclusive-with-six-months-to-go-before-brexit-630-finance-jobs-have-left-reuters-survey-idUKKCN1M60P4
^^I can not see us leaving without a deal in place as MayBot needs to get trade deals on WTO rules and as it stands for example..You get a new job but you have not got your P60 tax form you are placed on emergency tax until you hand over the P60. And without those deals in place we are going to get screwed for years while all this is sorted out.
Her deal gave the EU all what they wanted and scraps for us no wonder it was rejected in that landslide vote. May as well stay in and man up, make it tough on the EU sod all their fines and any regulations that will do us no good. It's time to be the bad ass country that takes no brown stuff from them.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 07:10 AM
Always interesting to learn of both sides of the debate...just a pity the politicians can't do likewise.
Catfish
01-17-19, 08:05 AM
It seems there is more hysteria than logical thinking, and a general greed for personal political advantages. The few reports i saw live from the House of Commons in our News made me sad, but of course they probably only broadcasted the most chaotic scenes.
[...]
Her deal gave the EU all what they wanted and scraps for us no wonder it was rejected in that landslide vote. May as well stay in and man up, make it tough on the EU sod all their fines and any regulations that will do us no good. It's time to be the bad ass country that takes no brown stuff from them.
If you look at statistics of how the UK economy fared since joining back then, how can anyone dispute that?
May reportedly secures 'secret' Brexit [...] killing the Irish backstop problem:
May reportedly secures 'secret' Brexit concessions to keep whole of UK in a customs union — killing the Irish backstop problem (https://www.businessinsider.de/brexit-reports-of-secret-concessions-by-eu-to-uk-in-exit-talks-2018-11?r=US&IR=T)
"While some of Prime Minister Theresa May’s critics have denounced her draft Brexit deal with the European Union as betrayal of Britain’s interests, the European Union has also given ground in the unprecedented negotiations":
Where the EU has made concessions in Brexit talks (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-concessions-factbox/factbox-where-the-eu-has-made-concessions-in-brexit-talks-idUSKCN1NL1WA)
What do brexiters expect when leaving the club, keeping all advantages while rejecting any obligation or responsibilty? Again, if you look at statistics of how the UK economy fared since joining back then how can anyone dispute that?
Border control alright, but all those bloody foreigners are then invading England via Ireland instead of Dover, and this fixes the problem? Do you think real criminals like those clans arrive via boat, as fugitives?
I guess the word for those real successful terrorists and criminals is "Invisibles", meaning they have the english citizenship and are free to move anyway. I know MI5 or whoever already targets those, but this has nothing to do with Farage's fear mongering of foreigners stealing, taking away jobs and raping innocent minors 24 hours a day.
Skybird
01-17-19, 08:17 AM
All this reminds me of a story once told by Paul Watzlawick, a famous psychologist and communication theoretician.
Illustrating how strongly people and even animals base their daily behaviour and acting routines on habits and beliefs, he told of a man writing him he had a dog, and every morning the following happens in the house: the dog had formed a love for - milk. And every morning his master went to the kitchen and the dog followed him but raced to the garden to fulfill his daily morning toilet routine at the tree, then returning enthusiastically to the kitchen and slobberng the milk that his master meanwhile had placed on the floor.
One morning, the milk was all out, and the dog returned from the garden toilet and then stood bewildered before the empty bowl. What you think the dog did?
It raced back to the garden and raised a leg at the tree (although in vain), and returned to the kitchen, assuming that now all things should be right and milk should be there. And it did it again, and then again.
Politicians are so disconnected from reality that they cannot imagine that their usual ceremonies and magical routines of endless babbling and doing backdoor deals and trades under the hand one day could not make things run in the usual fashion they got used to expect when doing the game right. And I do not even talk of Black Swan events. May reminds me of that dog that stands perplexed at the empty bowl and runs back and forth between that tree and the kitchen.
Either this outcome was her plan, as I still assume, to let the political caste get away with not being held responsible when cancelling brexit and ignoring the referendum, or she is an incredibly stupid woman. Which maybe she is additionally to the first possibility, I don't know.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 08:20 AM
May reportedly secures 'secret' Brexit concessions to keep whole of UK in a customs union — killing the Irish backstop problem (https://www.businessinsider.de/brexit-reports-of-secret-concessions-by-eu-to-uk-in-exit-talks-2018-11?r=US&IR=T)
Where the EU has made concessions in Brexit talks (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-concessions-factbox/factbox-where-the-eu-has-made-concessions-in-brexit-talks-idUSKCN1NL1WA)
Aren't both those articles a little old? :hmmm:
Catfish
01-17-19, 08:39 AM
^ November 2018. Were there major changes in the 'deal' since then?
It was all negotiated, and i guess no one here nor in the UK has any idea why the majority did not support this deal. Apart from gut feelings and some trying to gain personal political advantages, selling themselves as the saviours of THE UK and brexit.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 08:44 AM
^ November 2018. Were there major changes in the 'deal' since then?
My apologies, I initially thought you were revealing some sudden groundbreaking news.
Catfish
01-17-19, 08:52 AM
^ Which is what i do not understand, it was all laid out months ago. Maybe May had a communications problem? No, i do not mean this as a joke.
@Skybird what you refer to is the cargo cult? Whatever, a lot of deals are being prepared behind closed doors indeed, like it or not.
Catfish
01-17-19, 09:44 AM
Some commenting opinionated voices from Germany, for a change:
(Google translate, sometimes very badly..)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.tagesschau.de%2Fid%2F140561%2 Fbrexit-verhandlungen-rote-linien-ueberall
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 10:38 AM
May must inform the Commons on Monday in person or via a letter if she prefers, what her next plan is and the vote on said plan will take place on 29th January.
Not much time to formulate a plan byut sufficient to negotiate it.
Hopefully all sides will come up with something that can be moved forward on.
Jimbuna
01-17-19, 10:58 AM
https://i.imgur.com/1LZKS0U.jpg
CDR DPH
01-17-19, 10:59 AM
All this reminds me of a story once told by Paul Watzlawick, a famous psychologist and communication theoretician...
An amusing parable.
The people have become soft. They willfully choose to no longer exercise their democratic control over their elected politicians. The people now prefer others to think about and plan for the future and then tell them what is in their best interests. Thinking for oneself is hard and takes valuable time away from the mindless entertainment on the TV meant to keep them occupied. Citizens now follow the "leader" as long as there is no obvious apparent detrimental change in the daily status quo - free cheese from the Govt, income support, healthcare where treatment is available before one's foot falls off etc...
The politicians love it. They work day in and day to to enrich themselves, pad their pensions, squabble among themselves to appear to be principled on behalf of their constituents and at the end of the day scurry home and count their newly acquired shekels and prepare to repeat the effort the next day.
Brexit cannot be successfully negotiated by politicians who really do not wish to leave the EU. This concept should be clear to any non-comatose individual. Economic aspects of Brexit need to be worked out by business and industry leaders who are even more selfcentred than the politicians. Border controls need to be addressed by common folk who understand the concepts of cultural identity and who fear/worry about their way of life radically changing with the introduction of non-compatible cultural influences from abroad. Politicians need to be reigned in and made to work within the constraints set forth by the people, who are supposed to be the ones in charge, not the other way around.
You Brits are going to lose big time if you do not see the current events for what they really are - politicians working to advance an agenda that benefits them, not necessarily you. The foxes cannot be allowed to implement the security for the hen house nor should their input be considered when right thinking individuals need to protect their own interests. Self determination takes some work. It is a right that should not be abdicated to someone else without very careful consideration and assurances that those who you entrust are really looking out for you.
Good luck, but I fear this may be your last best change to get your country back. The political hook has been set a long time ago and without a very concerted effort to break the tether, Britons will soon find themselves flopping around on the deck of the EU long liner because that is where the current UK parliament actually wishes their citizens to be.
CDR DPH
01-17-19, 11:27 AM
I know the Monarchy stays out of internal politics. I understand the current political situation in the UK is a sticky mess of political quicksand. I get that it is easier to do nothing and remain above the fray but is this not the type of issue that a Monarch is in a perfect position to referee?
It is not the duty of the Queen to intervene at the behest of the people and the country when the political conflict of interest is so apparent? Is it not imperative for the Monarch to define the Empire, to protect the people when the politicians are incapable of doing so themselves?
Is the cultural, political and economic sovereignty of the country not worth the time and at least for the duration of this current crisis deserving of the suspension of the practice of noninterference with Parliament?
Clearly this is a time where the politicians are going to fail to protect the citizens by acts of commission and omission. If not the people or the politicians or the Monarchy, who will ensure the political and economic sovereignty and the very survival of Britain?
If the EU is such a welcome idea, why not just call that geographic block Europe and be done with all the distinct countries. You know or at least you should know that this is where the EU is headed next...
Skybird
01-17-19, 12:41 PM
^ Which is what i do not understand, it was all laid out months ago. Maybe May had a communications problem? No, i do not mean this as a joke.
@Skybird what you refer to is the cargo cult? Whatever, a lot of deals are being prepared behind closed doors indeed, like it or not.
Not really, and not tehcnically, the cargo cult phenomenon is something different, although it points at the same direction, the irrational belief in magical behaviour, so to speak. Watzlawick told the story in a speech I have on tape, to illustrate that even animals, not just humans, fall victim to this kind of cself-onstructing realties by our own definitions and then expecting them to work out as we expect them to do. The dog believed in a causal contexts that it had created in its mind on the ground of past experiences, habits. But they were never real.
Humans do this all the time. It makes our autopilots fly blind - and with us not beign aware of their activity.W e only get alarmed when there is a disruption - an empty milk bowl for example, and even then we find it difficult to give up our belief in magic. Quite some of our daily routines and activities and behaviour, is "cultist". It reaches quite far, even into science. For exmaple nutrition and health advice.
May must inform the Commons on Monday in person or via a letter if she prefers, what her next plan is and the vote on said plan will take place on 29th January.
Not much time to formulate a plan byut sufficient to negotiate it.
Hopefully all sides will come up with something that can be moved forward on.
No Plan-B time to face facts we are staying in the EU.
Jimbuna
01-18-19, 06:06 AM
Corbyn is doing himself no favours by refusing to talk with May. He insists she must drop a No Deal Brexit before he will engage but that simply tells the EU to dig in because the deal they have offered and refuse to shift on would eventually be the one settled upon.
I noticed Diane Abbott, you know, the one who would become Home Secretary in the event of a Labour Government and the true socialist who sent her child to a private school appeared on Question Time last night and managed to make a complete fool of herself judging by the reactions she got from the audience.
It pains me to see the depths my former party have sunk to and even more so when I take into consideration the fact that the Tories more or less have a free hand in how the country is governed.
Jimbuna
01-18-19, 06:49 AM
What an absolute mess :nope:
Corbyn could face string of resignations if he backs 'people's vote' https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote/ar-BBSodZG?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout
New plan to stop no deal: Now Labour MP Yvette Cooper tables draft laws to let MP seize control of Brexit - as May faces mass resignations if she tries to stop them https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/new-plan-to-stop-no-deal-now-labour-mp-yvette-cooper-tables-draft-laws-to-let-mp-seize-control-of-brexit-as-may-faces-mass-resignations-if-she-tries-to-stop-them/ar-BBSpt6p
CDR DPH
01-18-19, 08:21 AM
It's only a mess because the politicians seem to have a free hand to make it one. MP's seizing control from the sitting government and ignoring the public's orders, in the Navy that is called mutiny.
It's all about power and control, the politicians want to keep it, and the people have lost it. The problems presented by Brexit really have very little to do with Brexit and everything to do with a broken and unaccountable political system populated by sycophantic bullies.
Jimbuna
01-18-19, 11:26 AM
Yep, I reckon there is some weight in what you're saying :yep:
CDR DPH
01-18-19, 05:13 PM
Sorry can't get the embedded link to work on subsim. Right click copy & paste I guess if interested in watching it.
Some people get it, even if they are Australian. LOL!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9eHb3WUqg&feature=youtu.be (https://youtu.be/9s9eHb3WUqg)
I have said it for years politician's no longer work for us the voter and it stands out now like some one ramming dynamite up your rear end. And yet the voter is still fast asleep and will remain asleep when that fuse is lit.
STOP VOTING FOR THIS SHOWER THEY DON'T DESERVE OUR VOTES!
Gee, your politicians are nearly as bad as Australia's!! :timeout:
They're not public servants anymore, they are public masters (or dictators)!!
CDR DPH
01-18-19, 08:21 PM
It's not very often that an opportunity of such national importance comes around. The politicians are distracted determining a new pecking order at the trough.
Borrow a play from the yellow vests and mobilize Britons to come out and demand the return of their sovereignty and nothing less. Lots of unemployed hooligans these days lounging around watching the tv, put them to work generating news content to force the proper agenda on the politicians.
If you sit back and just watch, there is a good chance you'll lose your country, again.
Jimbuna
01-19-19, 06:27 AM
https://i.imgur.com/kxJ3jRx.jpg
Jimbuna
01-19-19, 06:31 AM
Meanwhile on a more serious note, Speaker Bercow could be denied a peerage for what many in Parliament consider to be his bias toward Labour plus the fact he admitted he voted to remain in the referendum and has faced repeated allegations regarding bullying.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46913477
Catfish
01-19-19, 06:44 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9eHb3WUqg&feature=youtu.be (https://youtu.be/9s9eHb3WUqg)
"And that was a totally fair and balanced party political broadcast by the foreign Rupert Murdoch owned Sky News party"
:rotfl2:
Jimbuna
01-19-19, 06:57 AM
"And that was a totally fair and balanced party political broadcast by the foreign Rupert Murdoch owned Sky News party"
:rotfl2:
So some would have us all believe :)
^Nice joke jim. :haha:
Prince Philip should take Westminster for a spin.
Nigel Farage to 'stand again as an MEP' as he warns of second Brexit referendumhttps://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-to-stand-again-as-an-mep-as-he-warns-of-second-brexit-referendum-11610551
Sorry Nigel if you do that you are a bloody hypocrite.
Jimbuna
01-19-19, 10:30 AM
In fairness to him he is the only one that has delivered thus far on what he promised and that was to bring about a referendum.
Skybird
01-19-19, 03:00 PM
Some clueless Germans have written a letter to Britain.
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Feine_de utsch_britische_korrespondenz
Sentimental, clueless and very German drivel. When I read it earlier, I felt almost ashamed. Well, almost. I may carry a German passport, but that by now is just a formality anymore, so in the end, I have not written that letter, nor was it written in my name.
Do not expect that AKK, the successor to Merkel, means a new policy. She is even worse than Merkel, and even more left and I call it "teuto-moralistic". And at least as technocratical, teflonesque, and ice-cold.
Catfish
01-19-19, 03:52 PM
^ From what the letter should have said:
"We want you back and we realize that it [the EU] needs to be reformed. Help us reform it !!!!"
That's basically what the whole thing should be about.
Skybird
01-19-19, 04:45 PM
Reform impossible by design and intention. Thus it must be destroyed, then Europe must be cleared of the rubble, and then we must build a new, purely economically- oriented trade zone - AND NOTHING MORE. To hell with all that cultural reeducation and wet wannabe-a-superstate-dream of fat cats who think a single country is too small a stage for their stellar ego to shine on.
The more space is given as a playground to the corrupt, the mentally derranged, the criminal and the ruthlessly egoist narcissists, the more corruption, the more insanity, the more crime and the more narcissim and egoism you breed and helkp to bring to power.
You want the squaring of the circle, and you ignore human nature, ignore reality. It will not work your way, never. It cannot, and never could from all beginning on.
Jimbuna
01-20-19, 06:33 AM
^ From what the letter should have said:
"We want you back and we realize that it [the EU] needs to be reformed. Help us reform it !!!!"
That's basically what the whole thing should be about.
Reform impossible by design and intention. Thus it must be destroyed, then Europe must be cleared of the rubble, and then we must build a new, purely economically- oriented trade zone - AND NOTHING MORE. To hell with all that cultural reeducation and wet wannabe-a-superstate-dream of fat cats who think a single country is too small a stage for their stellar ego to shine on.
The more space is given as a playground to the corrupt, the mentally derranged, the criminal and the ruthlessly egoist narcissists, the more corruption, the more insanity, the more crime and the more narcissim and egoism you breed and helkp to bring to power.
You want the squaring of the circle, and you ignore human nature, ignore reality. It will not work your way, never. It cannot, and never could from all beginning on.
I find it interesting to see both sides of the argument regarding the situation we are currently facing from a German perspective and IMHO you both make valid points :salute:
Jimbuna
01-20-19, 06:40 AM
Meanwhile, Downing Street warns MPs not to block Brexit.
The new bill is being presented by Labour's Yvette Cooper, the Conservative former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, and Liberal Democrat MP Norman Lamb, among others.
Another group led by Dominic Grieve wishes to pause Brexit by extending Article 50. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46936405
Two backbenchers who are willing to undermine the government and democracy by forcing changes to protocols that have existed for a great many years :nope:
Jimbuna
01-21-19, 05:03 AM
May set to reveal plan to ditch backstop to win over Brexit rebels https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/may-set-to-reveal-plan-to-ditch-backstop-to-win-over-brexit-rebels/ar-BBSvDYo?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout
A potentially wise move ig she is hoping to swing her backbenchers and the DUP onside.
Now it is Brussels who will hopefully soften their position.
Bleiente
01-21-19, 06:08 AM
Once Upon a time...
Google translater
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F 2019-01%2Fno-deal-brexit-reportage-portsmouth-wetherspoon-pub-tim-martin%2Fkomplettansicht
Original
https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-01/no-deal-brexit-reportage-portsmouth-wetherspoon-pub-tim-martin/komplettansicht
:Kaleun_Salute:
Skybird
01-21-19, 10:30 AM
A potentially wise move ig she is hoping to swing her backbenchers and the DUP onside.
Now it is Brussels who will hopefully soften their position.
"Hopefully"...? Have you not learned anything from the past two years, Jim?
Meanwhile on German TV. "Anne Will" is a weekend polit talk show.
On "Anne Will", the guests discussed Sunday night about the Brexit chaos. Guests included Greg Hands, a British conservative who is in favor of Brexit and considers the deal with Brussels too unfavorable to Britain.
In the course of the program, he pulled out a piece of paper and quoted Martin Selmayr, the Secretary General of the European Commission. According to Hands, Selmayr told the Passauer Neue Presse in November: "The power is with us. This agreement shows that this exit from the EU is not working. "
Hands accused the German civil servant of an intrigue: it was stipulated in the Treaty on European Union that a country may step out. But now those in Brussels said it would be impossible to leave the Union. This led the Conservative MPs to a harsh reproach: "They want Britain to be harmed by leaving." Above all, Hands calls for more willingness to compromise on the part of the Union. Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn in turn played the responsibility back to the British. "You know what you do not want, but we do not know what you want." Nevertheless, Asselborn stressed: "We want to see that we move in the Customs Union."
https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/bei-anne-will-britischer-konservativer-wirft-deutschland-intrige-vor_id_10211814.html
The EU has you Brits right where it wantrs you to have - in chokehold. You will suffocate yourself. The just do not need to ease their grip. And May - voluntarily put your head into that chokehold.
"Hopefully"...? Are many Brits still not tired of these self-deceptions and illusions?
Don'T mean to be personally hostile, Jim, please don'T take it as that. I just underline what it really is about - damaging Britain as severly as possible. A precedent that will scare away any other people dreaming of leaving the empire. A hard lesson beeing taught that is never to be forgotten.
They even tolerate a certain ammount of self-damage to the eU, even if it is in total higher than for Britain. The eU, so they reason, can digest such damage easier than Britain. That Britain is being made to suffer from all this - this is utmost priority. It always was.
I told that from all beginning on, two years ago. I said there cannot be a soft Brexit. The British tradition of liberty and freedom is very different from continetal Europe'S potlical reaosning, which is based on state authoritarianism and socialist planning, disguised as "social responsibility" and "solidarity". Two worlds collide here, and Britain - was a net contributor to the EU. Why could anyone assume the majorit yof net receivers would any of their blacmailed paymasters volunarily leave so easily, when the ticks live of their prey's blood?
Jimbuna
01-21-19, 12:04 PM
Don'T mean to be personally hostile, Jim, please don'T take it as that.
I never do Sky unless any such behaviour is obviously directed so.
May spoke to Parliament less than an hour ago and is looking for a collective agreement cross-party regarding the backstop. She might just get that and then she'll return to the EU and should they remain intransigent?
Then it's anyones guess where we go from here.
Bleiente
01-21-19, 12:43 PM
The EU has you Brits right where it wantrs you to have - in chokehold. You will suffocate yourself. The just do not need to ease their grip. And May - voluntarily put your head into that chokehold.
"Hopefully"...? Are many Brits still not tired of these self-deceptions and illusions?
Don'T mean to be personally hostile, Jim, please don'T take it as that. I just underline what it really is about - damaging Britain as severly as possible. A precedent that will scare away any other people dreaming of leaving the empire. A hard lesson beeing taught that is never to be forgotten.
They even tolerate a certain ammount of self-damage to the eU, even if it is in total higher than for Britain. The eU, so they reason, can digest such damage easier than Britain. That Britain is being made to suffer from all this - this is utmost priority. It always was.
I told that from all beginning on, two years ago. I said there cannot be a soft Brexit. The British tradition of liberty and freedom is very different from continetal Europe'S potlical reaosning, which is based on state authoritarianism and socialist planning, disguised as "social responsibility" and "solidarity". Two worlds collide here, and Britain - was a net contributor to the EU. Why could anyone assume the majorit yof net receivers would any of their blacmailed paymasters volunarily leave so easily, when the ticks live of their prey's blood?
A ghost is going around in Europe, that of populists and nationalists! :yep:
:Kaleun_Salute:
Skybird
01-21-19, 01:55 PM
A ghost is going around in Europe, that of populists and nationalists! :yep:
The worst populism going on in Europe today - is by the EU itself. On the way to a continental superstate run by one caste of career bureaqucrats not accountable to anyone, anbd career poltlicikans making it their living model to live at the cost of the ordinary people and lecturing them why they must accept that.
All "right wing populism" there is now nowadays - is the natural consequence of the attempt to replac "Europe" with the EU and its strawman cinstructtion of alibi instiotutions and alibi parliasments and alibi commissions. One party rule. Planned economy. Gleichschaltung of opinion, legislation, free speech.
Sounds familiar, Bleiente? Nazi-brown socialism? Stalin-red socialism? EU-blue socialism? Bejing-red socialism? Its all the same ****. Especialy us Germans should know it so much betteer than enayone else. We realyl should know it better, we had two of those within just two generations. What have we learned instead? We start building socialist desaster number three.
The Germans are a hopeless case. Impotent in their foreign political and military means, servile , nevertheless full of themselves, and their blood so saturated with lecturing others and moralising on everybody and everything that it almost qulifies as an acid.
If the ordinary German subject is not properly regulated by the state authorities once a day, well then he feels he misses something, this servile "Ducker".
Against so much state belief and submission, all reason and all love of freedom is powerless.
This too is what made the Brits wantign to leave. A completely different understand of freedom, one that is unknown her ein German, is getting looked down to as selfishness and "Krämertum", since decades and centuries.
Ever have read John Stuart Mills, or any of the Scottish moral philosphers? In Germany, the media would practically execute them under the applaus of the net-receiving plebs. Raising claim is enough, acchieving and deserving is for stupids, everybody thinks he has a right to demand free rides.
We are all one big happy socialist collective. We even speak in typical DDR-phrasing and propaganda slogans nowadays.
Thats why I have sympathies for the Brexiteers. In the end, the brits maybe never really were full members with heart and soul in the EU and its predecessors. It violates all what the English tradition of liberalism stands for. That narcissistic idiots like Johnson, Corbyn and May smear it, does not change the acchievements of this culture's history.
Bleiente
01-21-19, 02:31 PM
In the end, the brits maybe never really were full members with heart and soul in the EU and its predecessors. It violates all what the English tradition of liberalism stands for. That narcissistic idiots like Johnson, Corbyn and May smear it, does not change the acchievements of this culture's history.
Is always nice if you forget the history for your own use and conceals that GB had really begged for a membership...
Before joining the EG as a full member as well as the EU, GB was really bad, only after our acceptance, the country flourished.
But they -GB- have done it bad... but well, it's mostly the idiots who direct politics and business. :03:
:Kaleun_Salute:
Skybird
01-21-19, 04:26 PM
That simple it was not, but I think you do not really care. You may want to read the press conference held by de Gaulle on January 14th 1963. The french vetoed again st British memebership in the EEC twice. in the years after 1072, repeatedly British behaviour and political maneouvers illustrated repeatedly that tzhey were not really happy with their membership, they even helf a referendum. Afte rthat was won, the discomfort with the EEC continued nevertehless. In later treaties after the EEC had formally transformed from a purely economic union into a politically more ambitious cultural redefinition project of continental Europe (1993, Maastricht), they repeatedly enforced opt-out-clauses and stayiong-out-clauses for themselves regarding Schnegen and Euro.
Sinc elonger time they realise that the EU as of today is not what once the yhad asked for to be a member of: a purely economical joined market project. If the Eu would not enforce so much things that all lie beyond economic quesitons, but in pricnile are nothig n else biut the ambition to form a continetal, centrelaised super state, and if the migration issue would not have been so unscrupolously unlocked by the Germans and their imperial ambition to morally lecture and missionise the world, the referendum issued by Cameron probably would not have had a chance.
The growing nationalism, the growing right wing "populism" in all of Europe, the Brexit - all that are ghosts the EU itself has called to life with its megalomaniac amvbition and imperial demand to beco9me the one and only state fpor all of Europoe'S halb a billion people, no matter theirt hispotirclaly grown cultural identies, no9 matter their states, no matter their soverignty and their voted-for governments.
And this pisses more and more people across all of Europe.
With britain leaving, the net payers in the union jpoin a crucial voting majpority and can be voted down and vetoed down by net receivers in the Euro-zone. I hope you cna imagien yourself what this will mean for paying countrie slike Germany, Austria, Finland. The costs for Germany will be much bigger,m mutliuple factors as high as just the imminent raise in fees the Germans need to pay to Brussel. The whole fincial policy.making is in danger to be turned agsainst the stupid Germans. Thats what they slowly have understood in Berlin now - and thats why they have no interest to let the Brits go with just a tap on the shoulder. Britian is not only expected to pay on, its also expected to stem against the tide of financial demands from south European net receivers and ever debt-raising regimes. Its about voting power in severla European and Euro-related gremia.
The Germans. Well. They were stuoid enough to agree to structures for the Europ and the EU that over time slowly but surely would turn against them and abuse their finances increasingly. All for nothing but leaving a smile-marking in the world. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
States don't have friends, states have interests (Jack Kornblum, former US ambassador to Germany). just not germany. Germany has patronizing lectures, and romantic dreams. And this although in almost all decisive fields by now the big players have left us behind.
Mittelmaß. But wanting to save the world - easy, and en passant, of course.
The EU must go. And Germany must collapse. For the sake of freedom, and Europe. Germans do not udnerstand this, usually. Neither "Europe", nor "freedom". And certainly not "self-responsibility" and "cause and effect".
Jimbuna
01-22-19, 07:42 AM
Is always nice if you forget the history for your own use and conceals that GB had really begged for a membership...
Before joining the EG as a full member as well as the EU, GB was really bad, only after our acceptance, the country flourished.
But they -GB- have done it bad... but well, it's mostly the idiots who direct politics and business. :03:
:Kaleun_Salute:
Do you actually believe what you have written above? :nope:
I reckon Sky responds to you most admirably :yep:
Jimbuna
01-22-19, 07:45 AM
MPs are putting forward plans to change the outcome of Brexit ahead of a vote next week on the PM's amended deal.
Theresa May said on Monday she was focused on altering the backstop - the "insurance policy" designed to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.
But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the prime minister was in denial about the level of opposition to her deal.
Among the MPs' six amendments are plans to prevent a no-deal Brexit and to extend the deadline for leaving the EU.
But more amendments to change her next steps could be added in the coming days.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46955437
I fear she is flogging a dead horse...
Catfish
01-22-19, 09:40 AM
Well i am certainly not of Skybird's opinion, at least not entirely.
True that England always had its own ideas, holding back the EU's general progress while on the other hand contributing some good ideas when it comes to evaluate positions of the various members and how to still keep them together, and negotiate. Which is why a lot of England's EU workers in Brussel are less than amused that they and their country lose influence, internationally.
(b.t.w. England alone (without the UK) employs more bureaucrats than the whole EU, has to pay them, and will need a lot more now).
Skybird:
If the Eu would not enforce so much things that all lie beyond economic quesitons, but in pricnile are nothig n else biut the ambition to form a continetal, centrelaised super state, and if the migration issue would not have been so unscrupolously unlocked by the Germans and their imperial ambition to morally lecture and missionise the world, the referendum issued by Cameron probably would not have had a chance."The EU enforces". Or does it? Who exactly, dictator Juncker? And b.t.w. since this always pops up again, yes, even Juncker has been elected, along with all others working in or for the EU.
So the EU is becoming the centralised superstate, or one of its members? "Germany's imperial ambitions to lecture"? Do you also believe in the BRD being a GmbH, occupied by foreign powers?
Yes indeed, the EU is meanwhile more than a strictly economical club, it is about fighting terrorism, exchanging information, education, building, science exchange, international projects (not only economical, mind you), values and a general consent that working together has a better chance against powerful blocs like China or Russia, or recently Trump's hostility.
In short the EU is the nightmare of autocrate systems like in China, or Russia, or North Korea. And the latter are obviously very good in instrumentalising people like Skybird, and let them do the propaganda.
The growing nationalism, the growing right wing "populism" in all of Europe, the Brexit - all that are ghosts the EU itself [...] megalomaniac amvbition and imperial demand [...] the one and only state fpor all of Europoe'S halb a billion people, no matter theirt hispotirclaly grown cultural identies, no9 matter their states, no matter their soverignty and their voted-for governments.The growing right wing populism is the ghost of the hard right wing that was never to give up its goal to rule. It is the right wing and stick-in-the-mud nationalists, who see their nationalism and sometimes more or less well hidden racism vanish, in the population's minds. Romania and Poland are two good examples.
And while i guess i know what you mean with "hispotirclaly", your pessimistic sermon is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think so? The EU helps countries to keep their culture and identity, indeed it does not only finance culture and excavation, rebuilding and documentation of historical sites, but also publishes lots of literature about all kinds of cultural identities of its members. B.t.w. who exactly built up Manchester, from the rubble?
You are mistaking identity and culture with general standards for goods, food, and trade, to ease the latter.
Regarding what the EU has e.g. done for England, you might be in for a surprise:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/31/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-my-town
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/things-eu-done-for-manchester-11020085
Which are only two examples of hundreds.
And you compare "Nazi-brown socialism? Stalin-red socialism? [...] Bejing-red socialism? Its all the same ****." with the EU? You are such a fool.
Catfish
01-22-19, 09:57 AM
Seems some business is taking precautions in time against a brexit, or whatever comes of the whole mess. Not that i think this is a good sign, or idea.
Britain's P&O re-flagging its UK ships to Cyprus ahead of Brexit
(https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-p-o/britains-po-re-flagging-its-uk-ships-to-cyprus-ahead-of-brexit-idUSKCN1PG1KE)The London banks and the City of London corporation has of course already done what they thought necessary :nope:
Jimbuna
01-22-19, 11:57 AM
It is "obvious" there will be a hard border in Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the European Commission's chief spokesman has said.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982
So who precisely is going to erect this hard border because both the Irish and the British have said they won't?
Bleiente
01-22-19, 01:26 PM
Do you actually believe what you have written above? :nope:
What should be called faith here, these are actual and historically anchored facts.
I reckon Sky responds to you most admirably :yep:
What Sky had written there is simply nationalist-populist nonsense for me.
:Kaleun_Salute:
Catfish
01-22-19, 03:11 PM
So who precisely is going to erect this hard border because both the Irish and the British have said they won't?
Obviously not the EU, since it strongly rejects a hard border. Just like Ireland.
The "backstop" is the guarantee for Ireland, not to have a "hard border". And it is the EU that insists on that. As well as Ireland.
Isn't it one of England's red lines to avoid this backstop at any means? I mean that is why May's deal was rejected.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404
I guess i will just have to stop to try to understand what England even wants.
Jimbuna
01-22-19, 03:19 PM
Obviously not the EU, since it strongly rejects a hard border. Just like Ireland.
So who does Mr Schinas represent then?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46961982
skidman
01-22-19, 04:10 PM
He represents those that share the opinion rules must be obeyed. Not your cup of tea?
Catfish
01-22-19, 04:52 PM
So who does Mr Schinas represent then?
He represents reason. He does not say that the EU will build a "hard border", he points out that if there is no deal, England will most probably end up with exactly that.
And b.t.w. all parties have signed the "backstop" agreement to guarantee Ireland's open borders.
Does not anyone think by now it would be better to settle the legal status of a neighbouring Ireland once and for all. Can it be at least economically independent as part of the UK, or not. If that is the problem :hmmm:
I like the way MayBot states this Plan-A2,A3,B,B1 call it what you like so if this is important why delay the vote until next Tuesday! Clearly it can not be or shes just dragging her kitten heals.
skidman
01-22-19, 06:37 PM
Does not anyone think by now it would be better to settle the legal status of a neighbouring Ireland once and for all. Can it be at least economically independent as part of the UK, or not. If that is the problem :hmmm:
Not going to happen. The situation there is fragile like a house of cards. That is why everybody holds on so firmly to the minimal consensus (the Good Friday Agreement).
Aside from economic problems a hard border would be the best way to freeze the status quo. The GFA allows everyone in NI to get an additional passport of the republic, so they could cross that hard border without visa etc. Neither the republic nor the UK have signed the Schengen treaty, but they have established an informal "Common Travel Area" allowing people to pass the border from both sides. Keep that CTA, but control the flow of goods. That way the Brits can have their No Deal Brexit (anything else would give them the feeling they lost their face - stupid, but that's the way it is) and the Irish would not suffer that much.
Jimbuna
01-23-19, 06:56 AM
Now Liam Fox adds his opinion into the mix...
Delaying or cancelling Brexit would be a "calamitous" breach of trust with the electorate and worse than leaving the EU with no deal, Liam Fox has said.
Liam Fox said MPs should think about the "political consequences" of delaying Brexit not just the "short-term economic consequences".
"But I think the most calamitous outcome would be for Parliament, having promised to respect the result of the referendum, to turn around and say it wouldn't."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46971390
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