UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

EU citizens living in the UK have told of their anger after they were unable to vote in the European elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48384000

A friend here witness this when he went to vote.

Not to mention UK citizens living in the EU not be allowed to vote in the brexit referendum back then. Some (thousands) of UK citizens in Germany have asked for german passports
https://qz.com/1286099/british-applications-for-german-citizenship-have-soared-since-the-brexit-vote/,
but also some living in the UK for EU ones
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/05/the-uk-no-longer-feels-like-home-the-british-europhiles-racing-for-eu-passports :o

So May's almost gone. Anyone named June for next PM?

[STEED]

^BOJO BORIS THE FRONT RUNNER. :o :o

We are boned if he wins.

[Jimbuna]

Not to mention UK citizens living in the EU not be allowed to vote in the brexit referendum back then. Some (thousands) of UK citizens in Germany have asked for german passports, but also some living in the UK https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/05/the-uk-no-longer-feels-like-home-the-british-europhiles-racing-for-eu-passports :o

So May's almost gone. Anyone named June for next PM?

I'm reliably informed there are eighteen interested parties and whilst Boris is being touted as the favourite the list will be whittled down to two candidates so much will depend on whos said candidates turn to support.

There is much mistrust toward Boris within the party ranks and he did himself no favours with all the lies he spouted prior to the referendum.

[STEED]

^ The name is Boris, Boris Bond. No one else did a hire wire act that shows I'm a Lion and they are fodder. :03:

[Platapus]

Must be nice to have a Head of State resign when they realize they are no longer effective in that position.


Must be real nice.....

[STEED]

Must be nice to have a Head of State resign when they realize they are no longer effective in that position.


Must be real nice.....

Nah...We have a saying here, one bastard out and another bastard in. :03: :haha:

[Jimbuna]

Must be nice to have a Head of State resign when they realize they are no longer effective in that position.


Must be real nice.....

I saw what you did there :)

[STEED]

Cheer up May you have out lasted Gordon Brown that must count for something. Moving on to the candidates I wait to see the whole list before making a comment on them. And finally May took it to the wire and went just before being pushed not a good thing, she should had left after loosing the second withdraw vote.


BREAKING NEWS FROM BETH RIGBY ON SKY NEWS..

Conservative central office will speed up the process for a new PM set for July just before their summer break.

Jim would say get out of town that was not on the BBC News.



Old Jezzer seems angry wonder why? Are of course no general election now that must be it.

[Catfish]

^ Sky News. Rupert Murdoch Media.
Well i would not trust others anymore as well.

[Jimbuna]

^ Sky News. Rupert Murdoch Media.
Well i would not trust others anymore as well.

PRECISELY :yep:

[STEED]

Timeline of next steps
The Conservative Party has set out the timeline of its next steps.

Mrs May will step down as Conservative Party leader on 7 June.

After that, nominations among MPs for the next leader will close in the week beginning 10 June, the party says.

Rounds of voting will take place until the candidates are narrowed down to a final two.

"We expect that process to be concluded by the end of June, allowing for a series of hustings around the UK for members to meet and question the candidates, then cast their votes in time for the result to be announced before Parliament rises for the summer," the party statement added.

Now reported on the slow coach BBC Yawn News. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Looks like it is fast becoming political party leadership contest season.

Hookem quits as deputy UKIP leader to run for leadership
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48394651

[STEED]

^Alreday posted that jim. :haha:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2611072&postcount=10001


Amber Rudd has twitted she is not standing in the Tory contest...NOT CONFIRMED AS 100% YET.



Hard Brexit seems almost impossible to avoid - Spain government spokeswoman

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-spain/hard-brexit-seems-almost-impossible-to-avoid-spain-government-spokeswoman-idUKKCN1SU185

Parliament has other ideas about that one.

[Jimbuna]

Where :hmmm:

[STEED]

Where :hmmm: AR was reported on BBC local radio, granted the TV news has not said a thing about that yet. Updated post.

[Jimbuna]

You're looking in the wrong places then http://i65.tinypic.com/28i92jr.gif

[STEED]

You're looking in the wrong places then http://i65.tinypic.com/28i92jr.gif

Sorry jim I don't use track your browsing sites like that. :03:

Nicola Sturgeon has said Theresa May "deserves thanks for her service"

Snippet from the BBC News. At least she had better words to say than old bitter Jezzer.

[Catfish]

Must be nice to have a Head of State resign when they realize they are no longer effective in that position.

Must be real nice.....

Assumed there ever was any effectiveness.. and style.
No no, i mean Merkel here :03:

[Skybird]

Brussels honours May by putting flags on half mast - Brussel has just lost its by far best agent in the enemy's capital. She will be hard to replace. Rarely before has the EU ever owed so much to just one single person.

[Jimbuna]

Brussels honours May by putting flags on half mast - Brussel has just lost its by far best agent in the enemy's capital. She will be hard to replace. Rarely before has the EU ever owed so much to just one single person.

I can agree to a certain extent but do admit to feeling a little sympathy and empathy at the end of her resignation speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_1t-CdG5Bs

[Jimbuna]

I'm reliably informed of at least eighteen candidates eventually but so far here are thirteen of the possible contenders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

Sir Graham Brady earlier resigned as Chair of the 1922 Committee so I should imagine he will be making an announcement today or tomorrow.

[BossMark]

I'm reliably informed of at least eighteen candidates eventually but so far here are thirteen of the possible contenders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

Sir Graham Brady earlier resigned as Chair of the 1922 Committee so I should imagine he will be making an announcement today or tomorrow.


Well i can honestly say i dont trust or like any of them. But there is 3 i really cant stand and would hate them to be PM
Boris the buffon (but he is the bookies favourite)
Michael the slug Gove
And that evil bitch Esther Mcvey

[mapuc]

Are you happy now, after May have resign ?

Which Prime Minister do you prefer to take over after May ?

Markus

[MGR1]

Looking at the list of prospective contenders (LINK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611)) it's not very inspiring. I'd be inclined to say Rory Stewart would be a reasonable compromise candidate but he hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of making it as party leader.

If the unlikely event he did became party leader the Scottish Conservatives would have a better chance of electoral success up here. The rest are too bat-poo crazy or (unfortunately) viewed as "too English and not British enough" (quote/unquote) to go down well with the Scottish electorate outside the Tory party faithful.

Now, going off on something of a tangent:

As it's highly likely that Johnson or another high profile Brexiteer will become the next leader I think it's highly likely that the Scottish Tories will be forced to split from the main party if they hope to survive in the long term. There's already been grumblings about that: LINK (https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/05/andy-maciver-as-a-johnson-leadership-becomes-more-likely-scots-tories-are-mulling-going-it-alone.html). Ruth Davidson quashed that idea (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ruth-davidson-rejects-breaking-up-with-uk-tories-5kjq8vb99) (paywalled) after coming back from maternity leave - she has to as her own election as SCon leader was on a No Split platform whilst her then-leadership rival Murdo Fraser took the opposite view. These murmurings demonstrate that there's a bit of dissension within the ranks, probably centered around Fraser and his "Nationalist-Unionist (https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/09/murdo-fraser-liberal-unionism-a-model-for-scottish-conservatives.html)" supporters.:hmmm:

It's an unfortunate fact the biggest obstacle that the Scottish Tories face isn't the SNP or any of the other Scottish parties/branch offices. It's the not insubstantial number of their fellow Tories in England who, in the main, are not Unionists and are essentially English Nationalist in outlook.

As I've said to more than a few people over the years the core reason why English-style Conservatism doesn't go down well in Scotland boils down to Religion. Scottish Conservatism has it's roots in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland whilst south of the border it's counterpart is rooted deeply in the Anglicanism of the Church of England. Although religion has become (thankfully) much less of an influence, I feel that that fundamental difference has transmogrified into the political differences we now see between the two largest components of the UK.

Devolution may have recently exacerbated it, but that friction has always been simmering away in the background ever since 1707.

Mike.

[Skybird]

I can agree to a certain extent but do admit to feeling a little sympathy and empathy at the end of her resignation speech.



I admit I felt no pity at all for the almost crying at the end of her announcement. She brought herself into that situation all by herself: by her stubborness, her complete immunity to reality and denial of reality , and her underhanded handling of the issue at hand which I cannot rate any different than almost treason against the will of the British referendum majority and the rules under which that referendum was held (because, as you recall, I see her as having run a mission to turn the Brexit into an impotent, meanignless alibi action only that is no Brexit in meaning, but allows the political caste to get away with its coup of iognoring the referendum'S spirit and intention). I further admit, when I saw her almost crying, I felt anger and contempt: because in my perception of her record, she has no right to feel sadness or self-pity, and that she nevertheless does, to me indicates that she still is without any insight and understanding for her responsiblity - and that she has so fundamentally betrayed from beginning on.

Hers is the self-pity of a perpetrator. I do not know English political history that well at all, but as far as I can judge it, which is not the historically most competent judgement I readily admit, she likely is the worst PM your country has ever had. At least I have never read about or heard of any worse PM. That the whole political caste fails over Brexit in a most spectacular manner, does not free her from her own individual outstanding role and responsibility in all of it.

Before pity and forgiveness, comes confession of own guilt. Before confession of own guilt, comes remorse. Before remorse comes insight. Her pathetical words showed clearly she still has no insight, and sees herself as the victim. She fails already on the first condition: insight. Therefore, zero pity from me.

[STEED]

As a politician she was useless in the Home Office and as Prime minister she was weak and as a result the EU knew they could control her. The result she was caught running around in a no hope circle and Brexit took up all her time. She craved for power without a care in the world about the Brexit nightmare that was about to unfold, clearly at the end of her speech losing power hurt her.

As a person who will probably leave politics I hope she finds something more suited for her and she learn the lesson.

[Mr Quatro]

I wonder if this is one of those male female things with May saying she was the second female PM and that she wouldn't be the last, plus sky saying that May was EU's best friend ...

How can a new PM male or female get a better deal? She did her best and failed that's the truth.

[Skybird]

There will be no better deal, and I did not expect any deal of May at all. That has been my argument from beginning on: the EU does not want a deal with the UK that leaves the Brexit meaningful, and thus Britons must understand that Brexit from beginning on meant "hard Brexit, no deal". Its this hard Brexit - or no Brexit worth the name. Another choice Britian never has had. The EU is about executing a precedence and about intimidating any other nation considering to leave. It is not in the EU's interets to deliver a functional Brexit that leaves Britain not in agony. The EU wants a precedence exmaple that leaving the EU only means misery for him who leaves. That the UK leaves - and in the medioum or liong run shows up successfully mastering the consequences - that is a worst case scenario from the EU's POV.

My criticsm of May founds on that she assisted the EU in acchieving legally binding status for what until then was just the EU's intention. May should never have signed that treaty with the EU. Of course she also should not have told lies about how cherrypickingly it all will be, but she was not the first telling lies about this whole thing. She provided the EU the legally binding alibi that the EU now can use to always leave any change and adaptation and concessions to Britian - while the eU does not need to give anything by itself. This signature - this is May'S big failure - I say treason - that should get Britons infuriated. And I claim that messing up Brexit and turn it into somethign meaningless was her goal from first day on. It also explains why she is so stubborn, and why she sees herself as a victim, a martyr crucified by an unthankful nation. In her eyes, i think, her sabotage of brexit is a service to her country. Mind you - May was against Brexit before the referendum, and voted no.

If you see it this way, May's behaviour and policy suddenly makes an awful lot of sense.

[STEED]

How can a new PM male or female get a better deal? She did her best and failed that's the truth.

Anyone with a brain can see we are down to...

1. Leave no deal WTO rules
2. Stay
3. Referendum

May's deal is dead and if anyone thinks we can get a new deal from the EU is in for a rude awakening as the EU will say no more talks take it or leave it.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far

Boris Johnson 80%
Esther McVey 30%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%

(% is my predictions so far)

[Jimbuna]

Well i can honestly say i dont trust or like any of them. But there is 3 i really cant stand and would hate them to be PM
Boris the buffon (but he is the bookies favourite)
Michael the slug Gove
And that evil bitch Esther Mcvey

I'm not so sure the favourite will win, there is much hatred for the man in the backbenches.

[Jimbuna]

Are you happy now, after May have resign ?

Which Prime Minister do you prefer to take over after May ?

Markus

That's the million dollar question Markus but by my reckoning probably any of them are better than Steptoe (Corbyn).

[Jimbuna]

I admit I felt no pity at all for the almost crying at the end of her announcement. She brought herself into that situation all by herself: by her stubborness, her complete immunity to reality and denial of reality , and her underhanded handling of the issue at hand which I cannot rate any different than almost treason against the will of the British referendum majority and the rules under which that referendum was held (because, as you recall, I see her as having run a mission to turn the Brexit into an impotent, meanignless alibi action only that is no Brexit in meaning, but allows the political caste to get away with its coup of iognoring the referendum'S spirit and intention). I further admit, when I saw her almost crying, I felt anger and contempt: because in my perception of her record, she has no right to feel sadness or self-pity, and that she nevertheless does, to me indicates that she still is without any insight and understanding for her responsiblity - and that she has so fundamentally betrayed from beginning on.

Hers is the self-pity of a perpetrator. I do not know English political history that well at all, but as far as I can judge it, which is not the historically most competent judgement I readily admit, she likely is the worst PM your country has ever had. At least I have never read about or heard of any worse PM. That the whole political caste fails over Brexit in a most spectacular manner, does not free her from her own individual outstanding role and responsibility in all of it.

Before pity and forgiveness, comes confession of own guilt. Before confession of own guilt, comes remorse. Before remorse comes insight. Her pathetical words showed clearly she still has no insight, and sees herself as the victim. She fails already on the first condition: insight. Therefore, zero pity from me.

Your a hard man Sky :)

There have been a few worse than her according to popular opinion.

Thatcher was reviled and still is to this day, many blame her for destroying the coal mining industry amongst other things for example but choose to ignore the fact more mines were closed under Labour rule.

Michael Foot is probably a fair example of a Labour Prime Minister who failed.

The list could go on but at the end of the day it is down to individual opinion.

There will be no better deal, and I did not expect any deal of May at all. That has been my argument from beginning on: the EU does not want a deal with the UK that leaves the Brexit meaningful, and thus Britons must understand that Brexit from beginning on meant "hard Brexit, no deal". Its this hard Brexit - or no Brexit worth the name. Another choice Britian never has had. The EU is about executing a precedence and about intimidating any other nation considering to leave. It is not in the EU's interets to deliver a functional Brexit that leaves Britain not in agony. The EU wants a precedence exmaple that leaving the EU only means misery for him who leaves. That the UK leaves - and in the medioum or liong run shows up successfully mastering the consequences - that is a worst case scenario from the EU's POV.

My criticsm of May founds on that she assisted the EU in acchieving legally binding status for what until then was just the EU's intention. May should never have signed that treaty with the EU. Of course she also should not have told lies about how cherrypickingly it all will be, but she was not the first telling lies about this whole thing. She provided the EU the legally binding alibi that the EU now can use to always leave any change and adaptation and concessions to Britian - while the eU does not need to give anything by itself. This signature - this is May'S big failure - I say treason - that should get Britons infuriated. And I claim that messing up Brexit and turn it into somethign meaningless was her goal from first day on. It also explains why she is so stubborn, and why she sees herself as a victim, a martyr crucified by an unthankful nation. In her eyes, i think, her sabotage of brexit is a service to her country. Mind you - May was against Brexit before the referendum, and voted no.

If you see it this way, May's behaviour and policy suddenly makes an awful lot of sense.

In a broad context I'd tend to agree with you on the above.

[STEED]

Amber Rudd has ruled herself out, from the horses mouth. Just saw it on the news.


MEANWHILE WE HAVE ANOTHER LEADERSHIP CONTEST..

Liberal Democrats start leadership contesthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403038

[Jimbuna]

This was always going to be the case.

The party's current leader, Sir Vince Cable, announced in March that he would step down after the local elections.

[STEED]

A mate text me drinks on him tonight celebrating May's departure yesterday and today he text me asking can I bring round to booze tonight..Cheeky sod drunk it all.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear the inevitable internal bickering has commenced.

Conservative leadership contenders have clashed over Brexit as the race to succeed Theresa May in No 10 begins.

Rory Stewart said he would not serve under rival Boris Johnson because of his backing for a no-deal exit.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock, the fifth Tory to enter the race, said Mrs May's successor must be more "brutally honest" about the "trade-offs" required to get a deal through Parliament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403705

[STEED]

It would appear the inevitable internal bickering has commenced.

Wrong...



This...

https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/main/articles/sm_peacock_free.jpg

[Moonlight]

Steve Baker MP answers #Brexit questions at European Scrutiny Committee.

What Steve Baker MP has basically said in this video is that there has been a conspiracy at the heart of Government to deliver "as little of Brexit as possible"...Leavers have feared a Brexit Betrayal was being engineered in Whitehall and his evidence to this committee has proven it.

I watched it all but the first 10 minutes is all you need to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVmSxbQwwlk

[Catfish]

Not exactly new. How can he take for granted that the people who voted for brexit wanted a "no deal" brexit ? :03:

[Mr Quatro]

Being an American I had to look up the meaning of 'Whitehall' ... plus it's pretty embarrasing that UK politics thread is more interesting than the US politics thread :yep:

Whitehall is a road in the City of Westminster, Central London, which forms the first part of the A3212 road from Trafalgar Square to Chelsea. It is the main thoroughfare running south from Trafalgar Square towards Parliament Square. The street is recognised as the centre of the Government of the United Kingdom and is lined with numerous departments and ministries, including the Ministry of Defence, Horse Guards and the Cabinet Office. Consequently, the name 'Whitehall' is used as a metonym for the British civil service and government, and as the geographic name for the surrounding area.
The name was taken from the Palace of Whitehall that was the residence of Kings Henry VIII through to William III, before its destruction by fire in 1698; only the Banqueting House survived. Whitehall was originally a wide road that led to the front of the palace; the route to the south was widened in the 18th century following the destruction of the palace.

But I still don't understand where this video is putting the blame ... Big gov against the peoples will?

[STEED]

Tory leadership: Gove becomes eighth candidate to enter racehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48411784


Tory leadership: Dominic Raab and Andrea Leadsom enter racehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48410734




Tory leadership candidates so far

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 40%
Michael Gove 50%
(% is my predictions so far)

[STEED]

Being an American-UK politics thread is more interesting than the US politics thread :yep:

Yea its those wonderful hot cross buns Jim makes. :)

And we are a bit more light-harted and relaxed here. :)

[Jimbuna]

Do you know of any real news other than that which was known with almost certainty a few days ago.

[Skybird]

Steve Baker MP answers #Brexit questions at European Scrutiny Committee.

What Steve Baker MP has basically said in this video is that there has been a conspiracy at the heart of Government to deliver "as little of Brexit as possible"...Leavers have feared a Brexit Betrayal was being engineered in Whitehall and his evidence to this committee has proven it.

I watched it all but the first 10 minutes is all you need to see.

Still need to watch it, but if that is what he said, then it is the same what I say since 2 years. May'S saw it as her job to render an exit from the eU meanignless and doing so in a way that the referendum voters would not go after the politixcal caste's throats.

May never had any intention to deliver a meaningful brexit worth the name. Never. Thats why I accuse her of treason against the referendum voters.

[Skybird]

Not exactly new. How can he take for granted that the people who voted for brexit wanted a "no deal" brexit ? :03:
Exit means exit. It does not mean a disguised stay.

Next we discuss the meaning of up and down. I "up" really meaning something libe "above down" Couldn'T it be that "down"means towards the sky, and "up" being used to indicate an intention to dive to the bottom? Lets be careful.



And is left really the side where your thumb is right, couldnt it be meant to indicate that it is exactly the other way around?

Until these important questions gets solved according to EU norms, exit means exit. Means: "leave". Still so.


:doh:

[Jimbuna]

Assuming the Brexit Party win heavily after the votes are counted tonight I think we all know the disruption that could potentially come about in the EU Parliament, especially if like-minded parties from other EU countrirs band together as is expected.

My concern is what will happen in the UK after that should there be a general election which is a possibility because Steptoe and his gallant band of lefties have already announced they will be calling for a vote of no confidence at the conclusion of the Tory leadership election.

The Brexit Party are a one trick pony with no policies regarding running the country and shoule they fare as well in a general election may well hold the balance of power in a future coalition government.

If that were to be the case, heaven help us.

[Skybird]

Heaven help you anyway. You already are in the middle of the mess. In the end, you can



- cancel brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a soft brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a hard brexit. And suffer from two wasted years that are lost for needed preparations in advance, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your poltical and constitutional order.


- vote Labour in upcoming elections, and then do a soft brexit, then betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in soceity and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


I scenarios 1, 2 and 4, the EU gains a triumphant victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenario 3 the eU gains a robust victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenarios 1,2,3 and 4, Moscos wins a strategic victory, since afert the US and parts of other EU nations, the UK as a Western key power and most robust opponent to Russia is lured into becoming exclusively busy with itself and thus beig unavailable for global matters where it could get in the way of Russian interests. Moscows investments into breeding polarization into the poltical structure of the West, heavily pays off already now.

[STEED]

There would be no Brexit Party if that deceiver May kept to her word "Brexit means Brexit" with or without a deal for better or worst it should have all been dusted back in March. Yes we all know they have done well and why? because people are fed up with the Con/Lab party's hoping it will deliver the message..GET ON WITH IT.

I know they will just go on their merry way and crap over the voters. About bloody time voters wake up! I know I have said this so many bloody times trying to get people to wake up but no they don't want to.

"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY MORE"

And who ever wins the Tory leadership contest is going to get slapped down good and hard by the EU in their vain attempt to get a new deal.

[Skybird]

In the end:


the problem is that by the rules members of parliament should follow their own rules and should base these rules on the will and should act ion behalf of the intentions of the voters who voted for them, or in a referendum (accepted to be binding by all - that was part of its rules) voiced what they want their elected politicians to do. While this is so, the elected politicians stubbornly refuse to fulfill what their voters by majority told them to do. And this is at the root of the problems.



So the basic problem is a confrontation between elected and electorate. those who got elected should be accountable, liable to those who elected them. But they behave as if it is the other way around, almost, and if they were not to beh held accountable themselves at all, and could do whatever they want, even violating the will of those who elected them.



That people who go voting every four or five years usually know almost nothign about matters they allow to form their decision (if they do not even vote by family tradition and habit, which is an argument aganst elections itself already), does not make it any better.



That is a feudal self-understanding. of the pltical caste. Those in power behave as if they have a claim for getting elected - and owning the electorate - no matter what they do themselves. I wonder whether the medieval really is out of the minds of those in power.


As is known, I am strictly against general elections and letting every clueless Peter and meritless, non-contributing Paul have a say. Still most people surrender to this understanding of how the show shoud be run. Okay then, I then call for nothing more than to follow these your own, accepted rules. But it seems even this minimum already is too much asked for. Thats why I see this whole monkey business as totally untrustworthy und unworthy and do not accept to see it as binding for my own decision of where to spend my loyalty on and why, and where better to abstain. Where I follow their rules, I do so due to their superior force. In other words, it is about the law of the jungle, and the others usually have far more clubbers and pistoleros than I have.



Its not just in Britain like this. Its everywhere, but this is the UK thread, and so I describe it under that premisse. But the prnciple of compelte arbitrariness has been installed in germany as well, by Merkel. This woman has made so many compelte u-turns on her own former claims and positons by now that one wonders why she does not fly apart at all possible directions simultaneously and disperses like a cloud of gas.


Complete arbitrariness has become the dominant dogma of the post-democratic political era that we are caught in.

[STEED]

^Agreed.

I want to see massive changes because the system we have sucks and has failed. I want to see the end of sitting MP's on safe seats. I want a half term vote on the government of the day should we allow another two years to full term or get rid of them and have a general election and you can only stand twice for parliament not go on and on and on. No more jobs for the boys and above all prosecute MP's that break the rules with long term in prison.

[Jimbuna]

Heaven help you anyway. You already are in the middle of the mess. In the end, you can



- cancel brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a soft brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a hard brexit. And suffer from two wasted years that are lost for needed preparations in advance, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your poltical and constitutional order.


- vote Labour in upcoming elections, and then do a soft brexit, then betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in soceity and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


I scenarios 1, 2 and 4, the EU gains a triumphant victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenario 3 the eU gains a robust victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenarios 1,2,3 and 4, Moscos wins a strategic victory, since afert the US and parts of other EU nations, the UK as a Western key power and most robust opponent to Russia is lured into becoming exclusively busy with itself and thus beig unavailable for global matters where it could get in the way of Russian interests. Moscows investments into breeding polarization into the poltical structure of the West, heavily pays off already now.

I doubt anyone can predict the final outcome but prospective candidates are starting to state their cases and Leadsom and Raab have already stated they are prepared to leave without a deal.

Just how you go about that with a hung Parliament is beyond my comprehension atm :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

In the end:




Well, what ya know and who ya know.

Just back from dropping the wife off at Newcastle RVI and who should be out cleaning his car?

A nearby neighbour and friend who's brother just so happens to be a very reliable and in-the-know (IMHO anyway) political source who appears on tv shows almost daily.

He informs me that there are a growing number of senior Tories who are considering withdrawing their support for Boris because of his willingness to embrace a crash-out Brexit.

Further proof that Parliament is ham strung and in need of a total shake up and an end to first past the post.

Perhaps proportional representation is the best way forward.

[Moonlight]

As I don't know enough about the inner workings of parliamentary procedures I would tend to agree with you Jimbuna, but a quick scout around the interweb and you'll come across people like Maddy Thimont Jack who do know these things.

If what she's saying in this here link is true we are going to be on a roller coaster of a ride until October 31st, this could also mean the end of the Tory party as we know it, which in my opinion is a good thing. :haha:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/new-prime-minister-intent-no-deal-brexit-cant-be-stopped-mps-0

[Jimbuna]

As I don't know enough about the inner workings of parliamentary procedures I would tend to agree with you Jimbuna, but a quick scout around the interweb and you'll come across people like Maddy Thimont Jack who do know these things.

If what she's saying in this here link is true we are going to be on a roller coaster of a ride until October 31st, this could also mean the end of the Tory party as we know it, which in my opinion is a good thing. :haha:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/new-prime-minister-intent-no-deal-brexit-cant-be-stopped-mps-0

I tend to agree with you but the alternative is even more concerning imho and I speak as a former card carrying member of Labour (until Steptoe took over).

[MGR1]

The Brexit Party are a one trick pony with no policies regarding running the country and shoule they fare as well in a general election may well hold the balance of power in a future coalition government.

If that were to be the case, heaven help us.

Not just the Brexit Party, but the Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and possibly Plaid Cymru as well.

Further proof that Parliament is ham strung and in need of a total shake up and an end to first past the post.

Perhaps proportional representation is the best way forward.

One of the biggest arguments the "big two" parties make against PR is that forming any government would be hanstrung by the whims of the smaller ones.:hmmm:

Personally I'm in favour of PR but we should all bear in mind the downsides of allowing smaller parties a government role. The Tories confidence and supply deal with the DUP acts as warning.

To explain to those outside the UK , the "Back Stop" is apparently supported by large parts the population of NI as well as the business leaders there as well. Naturally the DUP are against it as it threatens the Union, their fundamental beliefs and very raison d'être. Therefore the inclusion of the "Back Stop" in the Westminster Agreement anged the DUP, causing instability and May being unable to pass the deal in Parliament.

In short, Brexit has effectively been held hostage by the DUP and it's belief in the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is despite the fact that there's polling evidence (https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2018/06/brexit-the-border-and-the-union/) that a great many Brexit supporters (Tories mainly) would be quite happy to dump Northern Ireland (and Scotland) so as to guarantee that England itself leaves the EU.

If Labour comes to power in a hypothetical General Election I think it's currently very unlikely that they'll get an overall majority. If that is the case they will become hostages of the smaller parties - the Lib Dems but most of all the SNP. It's then entirely possible that it'll be Sturgeon and co. holding up Brexit.

Which will go down even more poorly with a great many voters in England than the current shenanigans with the DUP have!:o

Mike.

[STEED]

Just had a great laugh reading the BBC Text News, Change UK wants to form a coalition with the LibDems and avoid standing in certain seats. So what was funny you ask? The LibDems offered the same thing to Change UK during the council and EU elections and they snubbed the LIbDems. :haha:

Vince or the new leader should say you had your chance.

[Skybird]

Me thinks Johnosn as PM - if he beocmes PM, and that is a big IF - will not live long , nor will any hard brexiteer live long as PM. Soon there would be earyl elections,a dn no matter which government then comes, I think it will declare a second referendum, which probably will be against Brexit, and so May and the EU will get what they want: the UK must stay in the EU. Its clear by now that the political caste will not let a meaningful brexit happen, nor will the EU.



In the end not just May but the majority of the Commons are Brussel's best allies. A majority of the Tories do not want a real Brexit, a majority of Labour does not want a real Brexit.



They just do not want to be held responsible for having not delivered it. Squawk loud and jump around - but don't let them call you a frog.

[ikalugin]

I am not sure I can respect a political force calling themselves cucks unironically.

[BossMark]

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

[STEED]

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

True and the normal BS will come out in the media and them. It changes nothing as they will go on their merry way.


One good laugh Batten and the boys were wiped out, UKIP is dead under his dumb leadership.


RESULTS SO FAR
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/crjeqkdevwvt/the-uks-european-elections-2019

[STEED]

Looking at the votes and % I would say if there was a second reforendrum the result would be another close result.

Change UK is finished without question and UKIP are almost dead.

[Jimbuna]

Not just the Brexit Party, but the Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and possibly Plaid Cymru as well.



One of the biggest arguments the "big two" parties make against PR is that forming any government would be hanstrung by the whims of the smaller ones.:hmmm:

Personally I'm in favour of PR but we should all bear in mind the downsides of allowing smaller parties a government role. The Tories confidence and supply deal with the DUP acts as warning.

To explain to those outside the UK , the "Back Stop" is apparently supported by large parts the population of NI as well as the business leaders there as well. Naturally the DUP are against it as it threatens the Union, their fundamental beliefs and very raison d'être. Therefore the inclusion of the "Back Stop" in the Westminster Agreement anged the DUP, causing instability and May being unable to pass the deal in Parliament.

In short, Brexit has effectively been held hostage by the DUP and it's belief in the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is despite the fact that there's polling evidence (https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2018/06/brexit-the-border-and-the-union/) that a great many Brexit supporters (Tories mainly) would be quite happy to dump Northern Ireland (and Scotland) so as to guarantee that England itself leaves the EU.

If Labour comes to power in a hypothetical General Election I think it's currently very unlikely that they'll get an overall majority. If that is the case they will become hostages of the smaller parties - the Lib Dems but most of all the SNP. It's then entirely possible that it'll be Sturgeon and co. holding up Brexit.

Which will go down even more poorly with a great many voters in England than the current shenanigans with the DUP have!:o

Mike.

Yeah, PR is probably the only way forward but the two main parties would fight tooth and nail to stop PR becoming a reality.

[Jimbuna]

See that both Labour and the tories got a good hiding but there was no surprises there.

Another way of looking at the results might tell you that the two major winners, Brexit and LD both announced their views regarding Brexit right from the off.

Taking into account one was for and one was for against shows how divided the country is on this matter.

Should this trend carry over into a general election I can see one of the above holding the balance of power in a coalition government.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear change is not only happening here in the UK.

The big centre-right and centre-left blocs in the European Parliament have lost their combined majority amid an increase in support for liberals, the Greens and nationalists.

Pro-EU parties are still expected to be in a majority but the traditional blocs will need to seek new alliances.

The liberals and Greens had a good night, while nationalists were victorious in Italy, France and the UK.

Turnout was the highest for 20 years, bucking decades of decline.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48417744

[STEED]

^Some one on the radio said this is the EU's last warning from the voters. Can not see what he was getting at. I can not speak for Europe but here in the UK the EU elections are a form of a protest vote against Westminster.



Home Secretary Sajid Javid has become the latest MP to join the race for the Conservative Party leadership.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48425441


Tory leadership candidates so far

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 65%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 35%
Michael Gove 50%
Sajid Javid 70%
(% is my predictions so far)

[MGR1]

I call the results for Scotland's six MEP seats as follows:

SNP: 3

Brexit Party: 2

Last seat could go either Green, Tory or Labour - too close to call.

Ach, weel. :oops: I was half right so a 50% success rate is better than nothing!

Actual results for the six UK MEP slots allocated to Scotland:

SNP: 3

Lib Dem: 1

Brexit: 1

Tories: 1

(Scottish) Labour loses it's MEPs altogether.

Viewed through the perspective of Brexit that's four pro-Remain MEPs vs two pro-Leave MEPs. Naturally Sturgeon has started up her usual rhetoric but, to play devils advocate, she does have something of a point.:hmmm:


Mike.

[STEED]

Lets go back to 1994..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum_Party

Interesting to note even back then this...

Support was strongest in southern and eastern England, and weakest in inner London, northern England, and Scotland.

Very little change from then up to the Referendum a few years ago. I reckon if it happen back then the vote would had be close but I feel it would have been the remain that won. So long before Nigel was a by-word James Goldsmith got the ball rolling.

[MGR1]

Aaaaand.... it looks like the Alliance Party have the third of the three UK MEP slots allocated to Northern Ireland;

DUP: 1

Sinn Fein: 1

Alliance: 1

Ulster Unionists lose their MEP.

Viewed through the Brexit impasse that's one pro-Leave and 2 pro-Remain.

If the recent election results are taken as indicative of a second EU referendum then the results would be the same:

England and Wales vote to leave the EU whilst Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to remain but the UK as whole votes to leave, but with a closer result.:hmmm:

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

Aaaaand.... it looks like the Alliance Party have the third of the three UK MEP slots allocated to Northern Ireland;

DUP: 1

Sinn Fein: 1

Alliance: 1

Ulster Unionists lose their MEP.

Viewed through the Brexit impasse that's one pro-Leave and 2 pro-Remain.

If the recent election results are taken as indicative of a second EU referendum then the results would be the same:

England and Wales vote to leave the EU whilst Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to remain but the UK as whole votes to leave, but with a closer result.:hmmm:

Mike.

Yep, quite a contrast when you see which way the four parts of the Union voted.

[Skybird]

Is there any available data on age structures in voter groups? I mean which party got how many votes from which age group? It seems we have a very clear such effect. Over here, the CDU got the less votes the younger the age group was, and got the most votes from the oldest voters. A similiar effect, though less contrast-rich, for the SPD, the Green, the big winners in both elections here, got the most votes formt he youngest, and the fewest form the oldest, the AFD got the fewest from botht ver very young and very old, and more votes form the medium age groups.

https://s17.directupload.net/images/190528/jik793kw.jpg (https://www.directupload.net)


It could mean that the young are done with allowing elder people doing policies for the eldferly at the ver yhigh cost of the young. Though I doubt that the young already interpret this in financial and economic terms and their own savings/pensions for their own future when they have turned old, but mostly consider climate and corrupt politics issues.

Some years ago I read that over 50% of the German electorate at that time already was older than 50 years.

Any age analysis for the UK, or the whole EU? I read that Greta-Land saw the Greens taking a steep dive.

[Jimbuna]

All I can find stops around 2017: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1PRFI_enGB770GB770&q=age+analysis+for+voting+in+the+UK&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEiND7_73iAhVG2KQKHWi1BQIQsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1920&bih=937

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 70%
Rory Stewart 35%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 55%
Andrea Leadsom 35%
Michael Gove 45%
Sajid Javid 70%
Kit Malthouse 50%

(% is my predictions so far)

[Jimbuna]

I'm surprised how low you rate Leadsoms and Goves chances, I'd put Malthouse well below them.

[Skybird]

All I can find stops around 2017: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1PRFI_enGB770GB770&q=age+analysis+for+voting+in+the+UK&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEiND7_73iAhVG2KQKHWi1BQIQsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1920&bih=937
Yes, I saw that, but like you I was not able to find something beyond 2017 and - on EU matters - 2018. But maybe the trend is not broken in 2019 anyway, going by the old figures. As long as Brexit boredom has not re-thrown the dice.

[Jimbuna]

Yes, I saw that, but like you I was not able to find something beyond 2017 and - on EU matters - 2018. But maybe the trend is not broken in 2019 anyway, going by the old figures. As long as Brexit boredom has not re-thrown the dice.

What with the forthcoming leadership election and possible general election, I can't honestly see Brexit boredom becoming a reality. There is a lot of mileage in this on the run up to October 31st.

In fact, I believe we are nearer to a break up of the Union than we have ever been before.

[STEED]

I'm surprised how low you rate Leadsoms and Goves chances, I'd put Malthouse well below them.


L & G have not said much at the moment as for M, i was watching a recent interview he gave. As time goes on and hearing more what they are thinking i will make changes.


I would be surprised if anyone else comes forward after this week as its getting full of runners.








I see the Labour top dogs are moving away from pushing for a general election in favor of a second referendum. Even Jezzer is, even if it is in the last line of his recent statement.

[Jimbuna]

Labour are as hopelessly split as the Tories which is the whole crux of the matter.

[Jimbuna]

I was watching the EU Election programme on Sunday evening when Alastair Campbell announced who he had voted for.

Tony Blair's former spin doctor says he has been expelled from the Labour Party after voting for the Liberal Democrats in the European elections.

Alastair Campbell, a lead campaigner for another Brexit referendum, said he was "sad and disappointed".

He said he voted Lib Dem "to try to persuade Labour to do right thing", but "always will be Labour" and appeal.

A Labour spokesman said supporting another party was "incompatible with party membership". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48434842

Now look below and get a feel for the total utter hypocrisy being dished out here.

We’ve tried to eliminate votes that were obviously free votes from this list. This should mean that the votes listed below are examples of where Mr Corbyn has rebelled against the Labour whip — but we can’t guarantee it.

During the Conservative-Liberal Democrat Coalition government
Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill — Schedule 8 — Length of Transitional Period During Which Existing Control Orders Remain In Place — 29 Nov 2011

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 246 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 203 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of three Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with John McDonnell and Dennis Skinner.
Protection of Freedoms Bill — Clause 3 — Retention of DNA and Fingerprint Information — 10 Oct 2011

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 243 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 218 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of two Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with John McDonnell.
Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill — Clause 27 — Any Additional Resources Required for Switch From Control Orders to TPIMs — 5 Sep 2011

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 256 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 208 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of two Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with John McDonnell.
Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill — New Clause 1 — Relocation of Terrorist Suspects — 5 Sep 2011

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 260 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 210 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of two Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with John McDonnell.
During the last Labour government
Deferred Divisions — Social Security — 4 Mar 2010

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 147 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 238 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of two Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with David Drew.
Fiscal Responsibility Bill — 5 Jan 2010

Mr Corbyn voted against the motion, along with 146 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly in favour, with 264 voting for the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of four Labour MPs to vote against the motion, along with Diane Abbott, Katy Clark and Linda Riordan.
Bill Presented — Fiscal Responsibility — New Clause 3 — 2010 Target — 9 Dec 2009

Mr Corbyn voted in favour of the motion, along with 145 Conservative MPs.
Labour MPs voted overwhelmingly against, with 279 voting against the motion.
Mr Corbyn was one of three Labour MPs to vote in favour of the motion, along with David Drew and Lynne Jones.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-has-jeremy-corbyn-ever-voted-with-the-conservatives-in-parliament

The above is not an exhaustive list but is a clear indicator as to why Steptoe is not fit to lead the UK and as long as he remains we will be stuck with the Tories.

[MGR1]

In fact, I believe we are nearer to a break up of the Union than we have ever been before.


Depends if Brexit is a complete disaster or not. If you take polling as gospel then a No Deal Brexit could well push enough Scottish voters into supporting independence in a "might as well screw ourselves rather than letting others do so.." type of mentality.


The same could also apply in Northern Ireland.


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

The same could also apply in Northern Ireland.


Mike.

Apologies, I meant to make reference to both Scotland and Ireland.

[Jimbuna]

Steptoe is not fit to lead the UK and as long as he remains we will be stuck with the Tories.

Just when you thought matters couldn't get any worse. This investigation is long overdue.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has launched a formal investigation into the Labour Party over allegations of anti-Semitism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48433964

[STEED]

News papers tomorrow are reporting Labour will call for a second reforendrum and back it to the hilt. This will tear them apart even more as they are about too walk over their voters who voted leave.

Meanwhile the Tories fear calling a general election and the new leader will not be able to re-negotiate the brexit deal states the EU President.

Are we witnessing the self destruction of the two main party's? Not in my book.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 60%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Rory Stewart 35%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 55%
Andrea Leadsom 35%
Michael Gove 55%
Sajid Javid 75%
Kit Malthouse 45%
James Cleverly 50%
(% is my predictions so far)



Boris Johnson is to be summonsed to court to face accusations of misconduct in a public office, over claims he made that the UK sent the EU £350m a week. https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-to-face-court-over-alleged-eu-referendum-misconduct-11730747

Please care to note BusGate had nothing to do with Nigel as Vote Leave wanted nothing to do with him so he ran his own campaign. I say this as I'm sick to death of Remainers saying it was Nigel.

[Jimbuna]

Labour's decision to expel Alastair Campbell was "spiteful", the party's deputy leader says, arguing it should be "listening rather than punishing".

Tony Blair's former spin doctor was kicked out of the party after revealing he had voted for the Liberal Democrats in the European elections.

But Tom Watson called for an "amnesty" for Labour members disillusioned by the party's lack of "clarity" on Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48443838

Tom Watson is one of the few in Labour who are level headed and still speak some sense.

I voted for him at the leadership election but now fear he will become a new target for the loony left.

[MGR1]

Sturgeon starts turning the screw (also gets the SNP's Radical wing off her back for now):

Indyref2 'framework' bill published at Holyrood (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48435198)

Legislation which could pave the way for a new Scottish independence referendum has been tabled at Holyrood.
The Scottish government wants to put the question of independence to a new public vote in the second half of 2020.
However, the Referendums (Scotland) Bill does not set a date or question, with ministers seeking agreement with the UK government
Why is Nicola Sturgeon making indyref2 plans? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48449035)

Nicola Sturgeon has no intention of going ahead with an independence referendum that has not been authorised by Westminster.
It may be very frustrating to her that the UK government need to give their consent to another vote, but she does accept that it is the reality.
The first minister also knows that it is extremely unlikely that any incoming prime minister would give their approval for another indyref.
We may not know who the next Tory leader is going to be - but you can be sure that any candidate who wants to secure the votes of Conservative members in Scotland will need to firmly rule out allowing a second referendum anytime soon.
Due to the pro-UK vote being spread out between three competing parties (SCon, SLab and SLibDem) lets just say that effective opposition to the SNP is quite poor. The SCons are hamstrung by their attachment to the UK Conservatives, SLab's almost at death's door whilst the SLibDems aren't big enough or popular enough to be much of a worry for the Nats and their Scottish Green allies (of convenience - there are ideological differences there).

Mike.

[MGR1]

Apologies, I meant to make reference to both Scotland and Ireland.


No need to Jim, I knew what you meant.:up:


Mike.

[Catfish]

From a dutch point of view, or "how i learned to loathe England" :hmmm:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/how-i-learnt-to-loathe-england

"England has turned to something you really don't want in your club."
Not my opinion, because i know there are still some who do not vote for Farage, but some more yellow press 'reports' like from Express or The Sun and i'm not sure what to think anymore.
It is Brexit-Britain who wants a hard border in Ireland, not the EU.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/brexit-is-aggressive-and-dangerously-nostalgic-the-uk-is-in-for-a-brutal-chastening-1.3841576
"No one, not the Remainers or the Leavers, voted to jump off a cliff yet this is what we’re told we must embrace or face being labelled a “traitor”."
Brexit is not about the EU or about the economy, and it seems it never was.

[skidman]

^excellent reading. Thanks for posting this.

[mapuc]

I don't envy you and those political problems you have to face in this Brexit times.

I guess we all have our own political problems in our countries.

Markus

[STEED]

Just watching the news and Old Jezzer thinks if he wins a general election he can talk to the EU and get a new deal. :doh:

Really?...:haha:

[Jimbuna]

From a dutch point of view, or "how i learned to loathe England" :hmmm:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/how-i-learnt-to-loathe-england

"England has turned to something you really don't want in your club."
Not my opinion, because i know there are still some who do not vote for Farage, but some more yellow press 'reports' like from Express or The Sun and i'm not sure what to think anymore.
It is Brexit-Britain who wants a hard border in Ireland, not the EU.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/brexit-is-aggressive-and-dangerously-nostalgic-the-uk-is-in-for-a-brutal-chastening-1.3841576
"No one, not the Remainers or the Leavers, voted to jump off a cliff yet this is what we’re told we must embrace or face being labelled a “traitor”."
Brexit is not about the EU or about the economy, and it seems it never was.

After reading those articles I'm simply thankful I only have electric ovens in the house :o

[Jimbuna]

Alastair Campbell's expulsion from the Labour Party should be reviewed, the shadow attorney general has said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48457900

Most definitely :yep:

[STEED]

Place your bets its By-Election time..

The 15 candidates battling for the Peterborough seat vacated by disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya have told the BBC why people should vote for them.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48384070

I like the look of.. Alan "Howling Laud" Hope - Official Monster Raving Loony Party




Iain Duncan Smith has called for a rethink of the Conservative leadership contest rules to avoid "chaos".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48458370

Please not more, this is getting silly.

[Reece]

Place your bets its By-Election time..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48384070

I like the look of.. Alan "Howling Laud" Hope - Official Monster Raving Loony Party


I noticed one of the candidates is Pierre Kirk, is he related to James T. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Mike Greene, the Brexit Party.

[Catfish]

After reading those articles I'm simply thankful I only have electric ovens in the house :o

:haha:

Despite economical.. challenges (i guess you are right with electric ovens, since you have cut down all the forests and wood in Scotland, and your new SSBN subs can probably make up for electrical loss if connected to the power grid :O:) i found this paragraph to be the most clear:

" [...] And how can we ever get back from this dark place? From this childish, binary way of engaging with and talking about those we disagree with? How do we live with those who have embraced this breakdown of civil society to such an extent they feel free – emboldened even – to express their racism and anti-Semitism, their misogyny and homophobia, their angry, righteous ignorance publicly and with impunity?
I really grieve for what has been so carelessly and thoughtless thrown away.

For all those carefully constructed bridges between people, communities, countries, ways of life and thought, which have been burned, or are about to be burned, down. So when I look to the future my question is; will it ever again be possible for us not to be angry all the time?"

I think this question is valid for a lot of continental countries. I ask myself whether this is a last protest of the far right seeing their influence dwindle in enlightened times, or is is it really a shift back to darker ages.

[STEED]

Lib Dems would win general election if it was held tomorrow - poll


Following impressive results in the European elections, the resurgent Lib Dems pip the Brexit Party to top spot in a YouGov poll.

https://news.sky.com/story/lib-dems-top-national-poll-for-only-second-time-ever-11731962


What a load of rubbish, this is why I don't trust polls when I see this sort of trash. People have always voted in a different way at different elections.


Let us not forget YouGov was one of those polls that told us May was going to win the general election with a landslide victory and what happen? She needed the DUP to get her across the line.

[Jimbuna]

The article below is approx. 30 minutes old but I saw her make the announcement at 22:40 on Question Time last night.

Not like the BBC to be so slow.

Jo Swinson has announced she will run to become the next leader of the Liberal Democrats.

The party's deputy leader told the BBC the country was "crying out" for a movement "to challenge the forces of nationalism and populism".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48468251

[Catfish]

LibDems would win? Smug rabble-rouser Farage will make it.

[BossMark]

https://news.sky.com/story/lib-dems-top-national-poll-for-only-second-time-ever-11731962


What a load of rubbish, this is why I don't trust polls when I see this sort of trash. People have always voted in a different way at different elections.



More chance of me becoming PM then the lib dums have winning GE :yep:

[Jimbuna]

LibDems would win? Smug rabble-rouser Farage will make it.

Most worrying aspect for me would be a hung Parliament and Farage holding the trump card in a coalition situation.

[Skybird]

:haha:

Despite economical.. challenges (i guess you are right with electric ovens, since you have cut down all the forests and wood in Scotland, and your new SSBN subs can probably make up for electrical loss if connected to the power grid :O:) i found this paragraph to be the most clear:

" [...] And how can we ever get back from this dark place? From this childish, binary way of engaging with and talking about those we disagree with? How do we live with those who have embraced this breakdown of civil society to such an extent they feel free – emboldened even – to express their racism and anti-Semitism, their misogyny and homophobia, their angry, righteous ignorance publicly and with impunity?
I really grieve for what has been so carelessly and thoughtless thrown away.

For all those carefully constructed bridges between people, communities, countries, ways of life and thought, which have been burned, or are about to be burned, down. So when I look to the future my question is; will it ever again be possible for us not to be angry all the time?"

I think this question is valid for a lot of continental countries. I ask myself whether this is a last protest of the far right seeing their influence dwindle in enlightened times, or is is it really a shift back to darker ages.
Pressure from the left provokes counter-pressure from the right. Force inflicted, inevitably returns. Liberals and progressives have pushed the envelope so far in the past 30, 40 years that now even former modest, reasonable people of the political middle grow in tolerance for equal extremists from the other side of the spectrum, just so to have them countering the extremists from the left and their policies, and just so because themselves they have the nose full of the progressives and liberals and their lefty ways.

Some claim that to be only "protest", and protest voting. I say such voices aim and precisely miss their target - and therefore will fail in finding a remedy for their decline. The good news is they are gone then. The bad news is we then have the right to deal with. I do not say the one evil is lesser or worse than the other, to me both stink with the same smell. I reject to fight against the one of the them just to see the other benefitting from that. And when they go after each other, I stay away and at best make sure that they do not get interrupted. I may not like Nazis. But I do not like EUcrats and lefties as well, I am as sick of these as I am sick of the first.

[MGR1]

The article below is approx. 30 minutes old but I saw her make the announcement at 22:40 on Question Time last night.

Not like the BBC to be so slow.


Three words:

West. Lothian. Question.

List of powers controlled by the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood:


agriculture, forestry and fisheries
education and training
environment
health and social services
housing
law and order
local government
sport and the arts
tourism and economic development
many aspects of transport

What are the powers of the Scottish Parliament? (https://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx)

She's a Scottish MP elected by a Scottish constituency. The very existence of devolution undercuts her potential leadership position when it comes to enacting any policy in England that's devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I'm a Scotsman who resides in Scotland. Even I can see that there's a problem of legitimacy here.

Until and unless there's some form of devolution for the whole of England, it's sad to say but no Scottish, Welsh or (unlikely) Northern Irish MP could ever again become Prime Minister or lead a major UK party unless they represented an English constituency.

Mike.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 45%
Michael Gove 60%
Sajid Javid 70%
Kit Malthouse 30%
James Cleverly 50%
Mark Harper 10%
(% is my predictions so far)

[STEED]

Peter Willsman: Labour suspends NEC member over anti-Semitism remarkshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48472977

What a disgrace, this vermin should have been thrown out already.

[Catfish]

Pressure from the left provokes counter-pressure from the right.

Like at the end of the Weimar Republic. If you think that the right will ever play by the rules and give back power to democratic elections you must be delusional.

Saying the right wing CDU has introduced "leftist" views or "communism" is nonsense, and you (should) know it. What i hear by you is the typical "Wutbuerger" and deny-it-all "logic".

The old german classic right-wing conservative CDU has shifted to other points of view under Mrs Merkel you are certainly right. But it has been a right wing party in Germany that has governed since decades with a short break with the SPD's Schroeder.

On the other hand Merkel does a lot in the interest of Germany, economically. She usually bases her decisions on science and german interest, sometimes hard to combine. Whether she is right about immigration is everyone's personal point of view, but i like this much more than "taking back control", vote for the far right, encourage rabble-rousers and building walls which does not solve any problem.
You prefer the likes of CDU's Merz and Koch?

If you want less refugees go to the roots, do not export weapons to immigrant countries, help those countries to improve civilian society, infrastructure and a perspective and better conditions for the young. What the US and partly the UK does breeds terrorists. "Despite much evidence to the contrary, the American foreign policy community--
and to a lesser extent, the American public—avoids (like the plague) accepting any
notion that U.S. actions overseas could result in blowback."
I do not like the Cato institue very much, but they have their merits: https://wcfia.harvard.edu/files/wcfia/files/615_eland.pdf

[Skybird]

Like at the end of the Weimar Republic. If you think that the right will ever play by the rules and give back power to democratic elections you must be delusional.
I have not said nor implied that. I said that lefties and progressives have pushed their policies so far that plenty of ordinary people in the poltical middle ground are done with them and even started to tolerate rightwingers to get rid of the lefties' polices. This happens in practically every major region in Europe now.


Saying the right wing CDU has introduced "leftist" views or "communism" is nonsense, and you (should) know it. What i hear by you is the typical "Wutbuerger" and deny-it-all "logic".I have not said nor implied that. See above. You simply get so easily emotionally engaged that your aroused emotions lead you to not pay attention to what I actually said, and then you become busy with your fantasy about what you think I should have said to justify that emotional spiking of yours. And the CDU certainly is not right nor conservative anymore. Merkel deleted these traits. The CDU are mercireless opportunists and Merkel clqueurs now. And that will beocme obvious when Merkel is no longer chancellor and has left the national stage.



On the other hand Merkel does a lot in the interest of Germany, economically. She usually bases her decisions on science and german interest, sometimes hard to combine. But you tell me >I< am delusional? She throws vital German key interests out of the window and wastes German wealth on sentimental baiting and symbolism. Germns lost hundreds of billiosn and in the end: over a trillion due to her misled policies. She has systematically increased the threats and risks for Germany, and mounte dmore and more burdens onto German taxpayer shoulders to finance her internaqtional illusions. I have wriotten off Germany in the long run, therefore, it will not be able to survive the bill once it gets put on the table. And this day will come, before the middle of this century, mark my word. At maximum another thirty years. But I dont think it will last this long anymore.



You prefer the likes of CDU's Merz and Koch?

You can know by now, after these years, that I like neither them nor anyone else there is in these gangs.


If you want less refugees go to the roots, do not export weapons to immigrant countries, help those countries to improve civilian society, infrastructure and a perspective and better conditions for the young. What the US and partly the UK does breeds terrorists. "Despite much evidence to the contrary, the American foreign policy community--
and to a lesser extent, the American public—avoids (like the plague) accepting any
notion that U.S. actions overseas could result in blowback."
I do not like the Cato institue very much, but they have their merits: https://wcfia.harvard.edu/files/wcfia/files/615_eland.pdf
I agree on banning military goods from international trade, but that makes only any effect if EVERY country exporting wepaons currently plays ball. Else customers will simply buy weapons not from us, but from the others then.



Colonization is over since decades and genberations, and still they have not come to terms ion Africa, but are busy with old tribal animosities in Africa,vote leaders they know are corrupt, and breed like rabbits and dio, beside the Siuteast asians, their huieg share to lead population explosion to new levels. It is cheap to always declare us guilty for THEIR inabilities, but a common, widespread pattrern of the politicla left over here. Its always ourt guilt. We are responsible. We must give. We must pay. We must coinfess. Becasue we are guuilty, guilty, guilty. Of everything. I am sick of hearing this opportunistic propaganda again and again and again.



We are severla billions too many, and that is not due to the birth rates in Europe. If you want to adress erosion of fertile grounds, desertification, epidemic diseases, corruption, and so forth, then adress the people causing these: the people living in these places where it happens. I agree in so far that organisations in the West helping in these evils blossmoing, from the catholic curch over the westenr company deforesting rain forest to build cattle industries fore export to North america, to generla financial development aid patterns as you seem to defend, should be stopped by us.



But the key issues are not our responsibilities - but theirs. Its their part to cleasn up their houses and chase their lousy masters away. Ours only is to withhold the gangsters from ourt sidetrying to widen their problems for their own profit. And this will not be done by govenrments in the Westm sicne these are integral part of the problem, and oftent he cause of these exported evils.



Ypou seme to have soime very naive, but tpyically left wordviews there. Its always the same narration form that political direction. And it never was right, and it will nto become any less wrong just becasue it gets endlessly repeated. Its 90% nonsense. But it declares the West the guilty, the enemy, the villain, and thats why it gets endlessly repeated.



You may mean your things well, I give you that. But you are under the crowd's and its masters' spell.

[em2nought]

Nationalists are Nazis, blah, blah, blah. :har:



http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Hootto/SOUPNAZI.png

[Jimbuna]

Donald Trump says Boris Johnson would be 'excellent' Tory leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48478706

Will this endorsement do him any favours though? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Tory leadership hopeful Sajid Javid has ruled out a second referendum, a general election and revoking Article 50 if he becomes the next PM.

Writing in Saturday's Daily Mail, the home secretary said another vote "would be disastrous for trust in politics".

He said he planned to negotiate an amendment to the Irish backstop "directly with Ireland" to get a deal that could pass through Parliament.

And he also said the UK "must prepare fully" for a no-deal Brexit.

In his article, he said after Tory defeats in local and European elections "the British people's frustration and the need to make good on the referendum have never been greater".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48482762

Now we have another of the 'hopeful' setting out their stall.

[MGR1]

An interesting little essay from BBC Scotland's Business and Economy Editor, Douglas Fraser:

Holyrood tax: the devil's in the data (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-48484264)

To plug looming gaps, the Scottish government has borrowing powers, but these are constrained within the terms of the new devolution arrangements. Even if they were not, they would be constrained by the operations of the bond markets - as the SNP's Sustainable Growth Commission sought to explain to gung-ho enthusiasts for winning independence and going on a borrowing spree.
The current borrowing powers are being deployed, for capital projects. They can't cover the scale of the gap in spending that results from these block grant adjustments, or consolidations.
So tough decisions lie ahead - tax increases, spending cuts, spending postponements, or a firmer push on public sector efficiency through reform.
Is this a special problem for Scotland? It's clearly new, and within the UK's financial set-up, it's got unusual dimensions. But it's more about Scotland joining the world in which governments have to make choices about taxation and to live with the consequences.
At 20 years of age, the Scottish Parliament may not have reached the independence some wish for it, but it is reaching the age of far greater maturity.
More of his recent reports: LINK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/correspondents/douglasfraser).

He's actually quite good when it comes to these sorts of analyses and he makes them easy to understand from a laymans perspective.

The biggest impression I've had is that when it comes to determining how much revenue each region of the UK actually generates, the Treasury seems to rely on an awful lot of informed guesswork rather than solid data......:hmmm:

Mike.

[Catfish]

I do not quite undrestand why Scotland's economy is as it is. Low unemployment, oil (still, yes) – or is the latter being outsourced by non-scottish companies?

[MGR1]

A more complicated question than might be expected, tbh. I don't work in the oil and gas sector so I cant give any more information than what's publicly available.

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_and_gas_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom)

Old BBC report from 2013, before the first Scottish Independence Referendum: LINK (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20042070).

In simple terms the UK Government issues licences to various consortiums so they can conduct both the exploration for and extraction of the UK's oil and gas reserves.

Very, very few of these are British in their entirety. Infact the majority of the exploitation of the UK's oil and gas reserves is carried out by non-UK based companies and consortiums.

This is becoming more pronounced as the big oil companies divest themselves of their stakes in the North Sea:

ConocoPhillips sells off UK North Sea assets for £2bn (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-47975042)

Chevron to become second firm to pull out of North Sea exploration (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-48457991)

Currently the largest company involved in the industry is China's CNOOC: LINK (https://intl.cnoocltd.com/en/operations/europe/uk).

Mike.

[em2nought]

I do not quite undrestand why Scotland's economy is as it is.


Too much rain and liquor, plus the only culinary dish of note is haggis. :03:

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Rory Stewart 45%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 45%
Michael Gove 65%
Sajid Javid 75%
Kit Malthouse 30%
James Cleverly 50%
Mark Harper 10%
Sam Gyimah 10%
(% is my predictions so far)

This is now getting silly, how many more are going to throw their hats into the ring? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

So tough decisions lie ahead - tax increases, spending cuts, spending postponements, or a firmer push on public sector efficiency through reform.

I'm certainly no authority on the matter but the above is also how I understand the position to be.

[Jimbuna]

Meanwhile, down at the ranch...

Nigel Farage should be involved in the government's Brexit negotiations and the UK should be prepared to leave the EU with no deal, Donald Trump has said.

In a Sunday Times interview, the US president was critical of government's Brexit negotiations, saying it left the EU "with all the cards."

The interview comes before his state visit to the UK begins on Monday.

On Saturday Mr Trump also said Boris Johnson would be an "excellent" Conservative Party leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48487973 :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Rory Stewart 45%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 45%
Michael Gove 65%
Sajid Javid 75%
Kit Malthouse 30%
James Cleverly 50%
Mark Harper 10%
Sam Gyimah 10%
(% is my predictions so far)

This is now getting silly, how many more are going to throw their hats into the ring? :hmmm:
The answer to your problems is Jürgen Klopp! :up: :D

[Jimbuna]

The answer to your problems is Jürgen Klopp! :up: :D

I think his brother Clippity would be a much better fit.

[STEED]

^^^Nigel Farage should be involved in the government's Brexit negotiations

What Brexit negotiations? The EU has made it so bloody clear you have to be dead not to see where they stand on the issue. The Tories hate Nigel's guts and do not want to have anything to do with him.

So President Trump please post your comment.

[Jimbuna]

This is now getting silly, how many more are going to throw their hats into the ring? :hmmm:

You'd need to go way back for an answer to that.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2611139&postcount=10022

[Catfish]

^^^
What Brexit negotiations? The EU has made it so bloody clear you have to be dead not to see where they stand on the issue. The Tories hate Nigel's guts and do not want to have anything to do with him.
So President Trump please post your comment.

Ask Trump what to do :haha: WTO rules!
"Nigel's guts"? What does he even risk? It is a game for him, and he is even paid by the EU.

Farage will hold no negotiations, he will try to get a hard brexit and this does not involve 'negotiations'.
I doubt whether Scotland or the Irelands or Wales want a 'hard brexit', or even the english people. Sure some, but not the majority. How about a referendum asking the people that?

And indeed i do not think 27 other nations with their agreed conceptions about certain values and trade laws will change their point of view. It is not England "against the EU", it is Farage and Johnson against 27 nations. A bit of a difference.

[Jimbuna]

Ask Trump what to do :haha: WTO rules!
"Nigel's guts"? What does he even risk? It is a game for him, and he is even paid by the EU.

Farage will hold no negotiations, he will try to get a hard brexit and this does not involve 'negotiations'.
I doubt whether Scotland or the Irelands or Wales want a 'hard brexit', or even the english people. Sure some, but not the majority. How about a referendum asking the people that?

And indeed i do not think 27 other nations with their agreed conceptions about certain values and trade laws will change their point of view. It is not England "against the EU", it is Farage and Johnson against 27 nations. A bit of a difference.

Certainly beginning to look that way :hmmm:

[STEED]

Jezzer snubs Trump but when it comes to meeting members of terrorist organizations its hand shacks and all the trimmings. BLOODY DISGRACE JEZZER!


Snubs the Queen and the Royals shows he is unfit to be PM.

[Catfish]

^ did Murdoch post this old news from april again..:03:
Refusing to tolerate Trump's interference in the UK's internal affairs is maybe not the worst thing to do?

Trump could not care less about what Corbyn does, i wonder if he even knows what "labour" is. I was astonished that Trump met Mrs May though, yesterday they said the date had been canceled.

[Skybird]

I was astonished that Trump met Mrs May though, yesterday they said the date had been canceled.
If you want to puke on your host's lap, you need to get that close, you know.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Rory Stewart 45%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 45%
Michael Gove 65%
Sajid Javid 75%
Kit Malthouse 30%
James Cleverly (WITHDRAWS) Early breaking news to be confirmed.
Mark Harper 10%
Sam Gyimah 10%
(% is my predictions so far)

[Jimbuna]

^ did Murdoch post this old news from april again..:03:
Refusing to tolerate Trump's interference in the UK's internal affairs is maybe not the worst thing to do?

Trump could not care less about what Corbyn does, i wonder if he even knows what "labour" is. I was astonished that Trump met Mrs May though, yesterday they said the date had been canceled.

Corbyn preferes to speak at an anti-Trump rally rather than attend a state banquet.

Regardless of ones political beliefs, Corbyn is someone that wants to lead the UK yet refuses to meet arguably the most powerful leader of the free world, a country many regard as our most important ally and one we hope to do a great deal of trade with...

I'll not make detailed reference to terrorist organisations as that fact is already widely known.

CORBYN IS NOT FIT TO GOVERN THE UK

https://i.imgur.com/BM6BVwr.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ekM18tD.jpg

[Jimbuna]

CONFIRMED

James Cleverly is first MP to pull out of Tory leadership race https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/james-cleverly-is-first-mp-to-pull-out-of-tory-leadership-race/ar-AACmRoX?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[STEED]

^Thanks Jim.


Did you see that dreadful speech by Jezzer? He has the cheek carping on about religious hatred and what is going on in his party which he has not lifted a finger to sort out?

Well we all know that one all over the news for the last two plus years and when action is taken they suspend that vile dog who has on more than one occasion spouted anti Jewish statements. His name slips me but I think I posted a link in this thread to that person.


Jezzer is not fit to be a leader of a party and totally not fit to be PM.

[Reece]

So out of all the candidates there is none that you support STEED? :hmmm:

[STEED]

So out of all the candidates there is none that you support STEED? :hmmm:


Only one who I think is suitable is not standing as to date and probably will not. As for the ones who are standing I'm keeping a eye on two of them and they are not Boris. I will tell all if they drop out or knocked out when the time comes. :03:

[Skybird]

As a former psychologist myself, I must agree with those professionals who diagnose Trump to be psychopathologically conspicious, he has a very destabilised personality and imo serious memory handicaps that indeed can be seen as symptomatic for and in combination with certain forms of personality disorder. And that is just the observation of the status quo in his personality as it displays itself in his behavuiour. A complete clinical diagnosis would necessarily include a biographical anamnesis.

In my view, he is ill, and suffers some kind of personality disorder breeding a complex syndrome of symptoms, that probably unfolded and developed from childhood on (the latter may sound like a joke, but lets face it, often these trhings indeed root in the childhood already... :) ) .


https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/25/donald-trump-applied-psychoanalysis-diagnosis/

[Jimbuna]

Change UK splits as six of 11 MPs become independents https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515505

So those who only a few months ago said they wanted to bring about a change in British politics end up changinging themselves :doh:

[Jimbuna]

^Thanks Jim.


Did you see that dreadful speech by Jezzer? He has the cheek carping on about religious hatred and what is going on in his party which he has not lifted a finger to sort out?

Well we all know that one all over the news for the last two plus years and when action is taken they suspend that vile dog who has on more than one occasion spouted anti Jewish statements. His name slips me but I think I posted a link in this thread to that person.


Jezzer is not fit to be a leader of a party and totally not fit to be PM.

Well at least on that we can both agree :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 70%
Rory Stewart 35%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 55%
Andrea Leadsom 35%
Michael Gove 45%
Sajid Javid 70%
Kit Malthouse 50%

(% is my predictions so far)

You had Malthouse as high as 50% here but he's gone now.



Well we all know that one all over the news for the last two plus years and when action is taken they suspend that vile dog who has on more than one occasion spouted anti Jewish statements.

That would be Peter Willsman https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48472977

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 75%
Esther McVey 25%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 45%
Matt Hancock 35%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 55%
Michael Gove 65%
Sajid Javid 75%
Kit Malthouse 30%(OUT) JIm as you see I dropped him down
James Cleverly (OUT)
Mark Harper 5%
Sam Gyimah 5%
(% is my predictions so far)

[Skybird]

.................................................. ..."Hereby I declare you British Prime Minister!"
https://i.postimg.cc/bNKM2h4K/Unbenannt.png (https://postimages.org/)
Der Tagesspiegel (Stuttmann und Schwalme)

[STEED]

So those who only a few months ago said they wanted to bring about a change in British politics end up changinging themselves :doh:

Oh come on they did beat UKIP and lost no MEP's granted they had none to loose. Well I knew it the rats are fleeing a sinking ship.

[Jimbuna]

The Conservatives have agreed changes designed to speed up the contest to succeed Theresa May as leader.

Under the previous rules, all the candidates would have needed only two MPs supporting them, but the new rules raise that bar to eight.

After nominations close, all 313 Tory MPs will vote for their preferred candidate in a series of secret ballots that will whittle down the contenders one by one until only two are left.

The first ballot will take place on Thursday 13 June, with further rounds of voting scheduled for 18, 19 and 20 of June.

Under the new rules, candidates will need to win the votes of at least 17 MPs in the first ballot and 33 MPs in the second to proceed.

If all the candidates exceed this threshold, the person with the fewest votes will be eliminated, a process that will continue in subsequent rounds until only two remain.

Party members will get to question the final two candidates in a series of hustings beginning in the week of 22 June.

Then finally the entire Tory membership of 124,000 will choose the winner in a process to be overseen by the Conservative Party board, its national governing body. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48513896

This should make for a far better and representative contest. Sorting out the wheat from the chaff very early on.

[STEED]

A Tory leadership candidate says his competitors' claims they could negotiate a new Brexit deal before 31 October are "misleading".

The EU set the date for the UK's exit after MPs rejected Theresa May's deal.

Some candidates say they can agree a new plan by the deadline, but Rory Stewart said there was "not a hope".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48526999

He has a good point. :hmmm:

I just get the feeling some of them are just not...What ever.




Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 72%
Esther McVey 22%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 48%
Matt Hancock 32%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 55%
Michael Gove 68%
Sajid Javid 75%
Mark Harper 1%
Sam Gyimah 1%
(% is my predictions so far)

[Jimbuna]

Ultimately Article 50 will probably be revoked, either that or the EU will throw the UK out by offering no more time extensions.

[Jimbuna]

Today voters head to the polls in the Peterborough by-election for the seat formerly held by MP Fiona Onysanya who was removed in May following a recall petition after being sentenced to three months in January for perverting the course of justice over a speeding offence. Ms Onasanya, 35, had claimed someone else was driving her car when it was seen speeding on 24 July 2017.

There are fifteen candidates and it will be interesting to see how well the Brexit candidate will do. The seat was won by Labour in 2017, but the party only beat the Conservatives - who had held it since 2005 - by 607 votes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48540003

[Jimbuna]

Alastair Campbell says he has hired lawyers to fight against his expulsion from the Labour Party.

Good for him.

He wrote: "No acknowledgement. No reply to emails asking for one, and for details of how they intend to handle the 'review' announced by Shami Chakrabarti.

Hardly surprising.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48534589

[Catfish]

So the UK or what will be left of it gets the "best" "phenomenal" trade deal of all times and the world with the USA, but only if they obey and leave the EU.
So they get one deal with one nation while losing appx. 50 others.

And Trump generously offered to privatize the National Health Service with US health care companies.
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-takes-aim-at-the-uks-national-health-service/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-privatisation-health-secretary-contracts-companies-matt-hancock-jon-ashworth-a8857021.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/05/nhs-america-brexit-trump

A very special relationship indeed. The UK must have a lot of despa.. umm.. trust.

[Jimbuna]

So the UK or what will be left of it gets the "best" "phenomenal" trade deal of all times and the world with the USA, but only if they obey and leave the EU.
So they get one deal with one nation while losing appx. 50 others.

And Trump generously offered to privatize the National Health Service with US health care companies.
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-takes-aim-at-the-uks-national-health-service/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-privatisation-health-secretary-contracts-companies-matt-hancock-jon-ashworth-a8857021.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/05/nhs-america-brexit-trump

A very special relationship indeed. The UK must have a lot of despa.. umm.. trust.

I don't think the above is the case now.

Donald Trump has rowed back on his remarks that the NHS should form part of a future trade deal between the UK and US.

The comment, made during his state visit to the UK, prompted a backlash from Conservative leadership candidates, Labour and trade unions.

But on Wednesday, the US president told ITV's Good Morning Britain: "I don't see it being on the table."

He added that the NHS was something he would "not consider part of trade".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48525211

Not saying I trust him either, we all know of his mood swings and the changes they can bring about.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear some Tories are starting to hatch nefarious plans :hmmm:

Commons Speaker John Bercow planted himself in the way of a Tory leadership candidate’s threat to suspend Parliament to stop MPs blocking a no-deal exit from the European Union.

In a scornful intervention, the Speaker said: “Parliament will not be evacuated from the centre stage of the decision-making process on this important matter.

“That is simply not going to happen.” With a derisive tone, he added: “It’s just so blindingly obvious that it almost doesn’t need to be stated, but apparently it does.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/john-bercow-suspending-parliament-to-force-a-no-deal-brexit-not-going-to-happen/ar-AACu2SQ?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Bilge_Rat]

Not saying I trust him either, we all know of his mood swings and the changes they can bring about.

comments that NHS is on the table in the event of any USA-UK trade deal is just scare mongering.

Canada has a fully government controlled public health care. Dismantling it and/or allowing private U.S. companies to have access to it has never been on the table or part of any U.S. demands, not even in the latest round of negotiating the new USMCA (i.e. NAFTA 2.0) with the Trump admin.

Accessing the Canadian health sector by U.S. private health care providers would have been an easy fit since the Canadian-U.S. economies are already closely integrated. If it did not happen here, it will certainly not happen in the U.K.

Trump is famous for making outlandish demands but settling for a lot less, when talk of NAFTA 2.0 started, he was talking about dismantling all trade barriers. The final product, the USMCA, although it is a better deal for the USA is more a series of tweaks to the existing deal rather than a substantial revision. That is the reason why all Canadian politicians are quite happy to live with it.

[STEED]

The BBC has confirmed details of its first TV debate between Tory hopefuls vying to be the next party leader - and the country's new PM.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48547524

Pass the pop corn comedy hour is back on the beeb. :03: :haha:

[STEED]

Today voters head to the polls in the Peterborough by-election

What I can see its a two horse race between the Brexit Party and the LibDems. As for the rest they may as well go down the pub for a pint and pork pie.

[BossMark]

What I can see its a two horse race between the Brexit Party and the LibDems. As for the rest they may as well go down the pub for a pint and pork pie.


Wrong but am quite pleasentry surprised :up::D:yep:


Peterborough by-election: Labour beats Brexit Party to hold seat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

[STEED]

Wrong but am quite pleasentry surprised :up::D:yep:


Peterborough by-election: Labour beats Brexit Party to hold seat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

That was based on polls, just shows polls can not be trusted. Well the results show that this is not a safe seat and there is a possible general election any time and if we are still in the EU the main stream party's will get another hammering.

It's MayBots last day as leader the tories so the contest will be hotting up now.

[Jimbuna]

What I can see its a two horse race between the Brexit Party and the LibDems. As for the rest they may as well go down the pub for a pint and pork pie.

Hindsight can be such a wonderful thing :smug:

If the result is the beginning of a trend and I appreciate we are probably up to three years away from the next general election so far too early to predict an outcome.

I can see the Tories being wiped out and Farage having enough seats to make him the king maker.

Anything rather than letting Steptoe into No 10.

[Jimbuna]

Theresa May officially steps down as Tory leader.

Eleven Conservative MPs are vying to replace her as party leader and, ultimately, prime minister.

Anyone other than that clown Johnson.

[STEED]

Agreed Bojo would let that mad dog jezzer in the back door.

[BossMark]

https://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/rothwellwhite1001/BOB070419_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqk4bAwqv5afUjcOnA6CDEvK M3GeHGmeRPYSwAMsvPRnk_zpssx87pljl.jpg

[STEED]

I hear the by-election saw a all new lowest turn out of a new low. :haha:

As for the polls saying BoJo is on course for victory then prepare for a general election and a labour victory! :o :03: :o

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhj_79tPd-s

:up: :rotfl2::rotfl2:

[Jimbuna]

The facial expressions on Varadkars face says it all :)

[Jimbuna]

Tory leadership candidate Michael Gove has said he "deeply regrets" taking cocaine more than 20 years ago.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48564722

I wonder how many others have similar skeletons in the cupboard :hmmm:

[STEED]

I hear a book is coming out on Gove, I wonder what it will be called....:hmmm:

GOVE the Pot Years. :|\\ :haha:

[Skybird]

Over here in our media they said that never before had a favorite for the Tory party chair won . But i wonder whether Johnson will be the first - since he may be the only Tory name promising that he can keep Farange and Corbyn at bay.


Its all a British Kobayashi Maru simulation, I think.

[Jimbuna]

I doubt anyone can call the eventual result with any level of confidence till it becomes a two horse race.

[MGR1]

Apart from one or two, I suspect most of the Scottish Tory MP's will end up backing Gove. However, I doubt Gove will actually make it to the last two and even if he did I highly doubt much of Tory party grass roots in England would support him for two reasons:

1: His backstabbing of their favourite Johnson in the last leadership contest.

2: Even though he represents an English constituency, he's Scottish.

Now moving on to other things, who remembers "The Vow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Commission#The_Vow)" made by Cameron, Milliband and Clegg before votes were cast in the 2014 Scottish IndyRef? Which resulted in the Smith Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Commission)?

It seems that Lib Dem leadership contender Ed Davey has declared that it hasn't been delivered:

LibDem Edward Davey says the Vow has not been delivered (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/17692858.edward-davey-claims-vow-has-not-been-delivered/)

Looks like he's trying to appeal to those voters in Scotland who don't want independence but vote SNP because they want further devolution and more powers given to the Holyrood parliament.

Here are the Smith Commision recommendations:

The new devolved powers to be delivered were based on the recommendations of the Smith Commission, formed by David Cameron, which were:


The Scottish Parliament to have complete power to set income tax rates and bands except for the Personal Allowance and administration (which is still carried out by HMRC.)
The Scottish Parliament to receive a proportion of the VAT collected in Scotland, amounting to the first ten percent of the standard rate (so with the current standard VAT rate of 20%, Scotland would receive 50% of the receipts). However, the Scottish Parliament would not have power to influence the UK's overall VAT rate and would not be a devolved tax.
The Scottish Parliament to have increased borrowing powers to support capital investment and ensure budgetary stability. These powers are to be agreed with the UK government.
UK legislation to state that the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government are permanent institutions. The parliament will also be given powers to legislate over how it is elected and run.
The Scottish Parliament to have power to extend the vote to 16- and 17-year-olds, allowing them to vote in the Scottish Parliament general election, 2016.
The Scottish Parliament to have control over a number of benefits including disability payments, winter fuel payments and the housing elements of Universal Credit.
The Scottish Parliament to have new powers to make discretionary payments in any area of welfare.
The Scottish Parliament to have control over Air Passenger Duty charged on passengers flying from airports within Scotland.
Responsibility for the management of the Crown Estate's economic assets in Scotland, including the Crown Estate's seabed and mineral and fishing rights, and the revenue generated from these assets, to be transferred to the Scottish Parliament.
The Scottish Government will have power to allow public sector operators to bid for rail franchises funded and specified by Scottish ministers.
The block grant from the UK government to Scotland will continue to be determined via the operation of the Barnett formula. New rules to define how it will be adjusted at the point when powers are transferred and thereafter to be agreed by the Scottish and UK governments and put in place prior to the powers coming into force. These rules will ensure that neither the Scottish nor UK governments will lose or gain financially from the act of transferring a power.
MPs representing constituencies across the whole of the UK to continue to decide the UK's budget, including income tax.
The Scottish and UK governments to draw up and agree on a memorandum of understanding to ensure that devolution is not detrimental to UK-wide critical national infrastructure in relation to matters such as defence and security, immigration, trade and energy.

For those who don't like the Barnett formula or Scottish MP's voting on English affairs, this is the crucial part:

The block grant from the UK government to Scotland will continue to be determined via the operation of the Barnett formula. New rules to define how it will be adjusted at the point when powers are transferred and thereafter to be agreed by the Scottish and UK governments and put in place prior to the powers coming into force. These rules will ensure that neither the Scottish nor UK governments will lose or gain financially from the act of transferring a power.and:

MPs representing constituencies across the whole of the UK to continue to decide the UK's budget, including income tax. In short because the Barnett formula means that funding in Scotland will still be directly linked to funding levels set for England, Scottish MP's still have to have the right to vote on the Budget even when it affects those areas that are devolved to the Holyrood Parliament (and Cardiff Bay) but are still directly administered by Westminster for England.

The only way to sever that link would be either to set up an English Parliament with the same powers as Holyrood or grant full fiscal autonomy to Scotland.

Note, the block grant allocated to Scotland has decreased in real terms by almost 2bn since 2010/2011.

Discuss.

Mike.:salute:

[JU_88]

Its all up in the air at the moment, Id predict another hung parliament next GE (if one took place this year), but in whose favor -really depends on what happens between now and September.
Tories and Labour really deserve a kicking though and hope they get one.

[STEED]

Tories and Labour really deserve a kicking though and hope they get one.

More like get rid of them.


WELL WELL WELL....

Jewish Labour Movement calls on party to suspend new Peterborough MP over anti-semitism row

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/104405/jewish-labour-movement-calls-party-suspend-new

:nope:

[BossMark]

Tories really deserve a kicking though and hope they get one.
Well i certainly hope so:yep:

[MGR1]

The Boss is not..

:O:

I wrote MP's - Davidson's an MSP. She and the other Tory MSP's at Holyrood don't get to vote during the whittling down process, only the membership vote.

Apparently a few of the Scottish Tory MP's don't view her as their boss either - Ross "SNP Gain" Thomson of Aberdeen South being the most notable example.

I've had the misfortune to meet him - brown nosing toady is being very polite.....:shifty:

Mike.

[STEED]

:O:

I wrote MP's - Davidson's an MSP. She and the other Tory MSP's at Holyrood don't get to vote during the whittling down process, only the membership vote.

Nit picking, you are sounding like a politician. :03: :haha: :O:

I'm just a grumpy middle aged fart. :yeah:

[MGR1]

Your not the first person to say that to me, Steed, believe me!:O:

Besides, no one can be too young or old to be a grumpy fart!

Mike.:03:

[Jimbuna]

Its all up in the air at the moment, Id predict another hung parliament next GE (if one took place this year), but in whose favor -really depends on what happens between now and September.
Tories and Labour really deserve a kicking though and hope they get one.

Should that end up being the case I can see Farafe wringing his hands with delight at the thought of being the one who may well have the power to select which side he goes for.

My guesstimate would be the Tories.

[MGR1]

On the subject of the Honorable Member of (the UK) Parliament for Aberdeen South:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Official_portrait_of_Ross_Thomson_crop_2.jpg/220px-Official_portrait_of_Ross_Thomson_crop_2.jpg

I HAVE A FACE THAT MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO PUNCH ME!:yeah:

Even more so when you meet him in person.


Meet my MP, Kirsty Blackman of the SNP - the Honorable Member of (the UK) Parliament for Aberdeen North:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Official_portrait_of_Kirsty_Blackman_crop_2.jpg/220px-Official_portrait_of_Kirsty_Blackman_crop_2.jpg

In comparison with the greasy pole climbing, brown nosing Thomson, Blackman's reasonably effective.

She still reminds me of a student activist, though.

Both suffer from the same problem - they both started out as members of Aberdeen City council so that makes both even more suspect in my opinion.

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

My favourite Scottish MP is Mhairi Black.

[MGR1]

Mhairi Black suffers from one problem that limits her appeal outside the Clyde Valley conurbation as far as the rest of Scotland is concerned. Particulalarly here in the North East.

She's a Weegie.

Mike.:hmmm:

P.S. Never call a Glaswegian a Weegie to their face - they absolutely hate it. They like Keelie (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/keelie) even less....

[JU_88]

Should that end up being the case I can see Farafe wringing his hands with delight at the thought of being the one who may well have the power to select which side he goes for.

My guesstimate would be the Tories.

Lab/Dem is equally possible. It really depends who comes out to vote.
Though i think the appetite for Corbyn is nothing like it was.

[BossMark]

Should that end up being the case I can see Farafe wringing his hands with delight at the thought of being the one who may well have the power to select which side he goes for.

My guesstimate would be the Tories.
Me too as he is more tory then the tories...

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 77%
Esther McVey 30%
Jeremy Hunt 72%
Rory Stewart 45%
Matt Hancock 30%
Dominic Raab 40%
Andrea Leadsom 55%
Michael Gove 65%
Sajid Javid 75%
Mark Harper 1%
Sam Gyimah 1%
(% is my predictions so far)

Just been watching Raab and I am not convinced by what he said, had a bad feeling he was power mad and weak at the same time. Or so watched Hunt who came across better but I feel he has a up hill struggle against the heavy weights.

I have only seen snippets of Hancock as I can not find his full speech on line so his % will remain as it is until I watch his speech in full. What I say is he has a much bigger hill to climb.

[MGR1]

To be honest this contest is a bit of a charade - the two chosen will be Boris and one other. Boris will win the membership vote by a landslide.


The Tory grassroots in England want Boris, end of story!


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

Lab/Dem is equally possible. It really depends who comes out to vote.
Though i think the appetite for Corbyn is nothing like it was.

True that.

Me too as he is more tory then the tories...

:yep:

[Jimbuna]

To be honest this contest is a bit of a charade - the two chosen will be Boris and one other. Boris will win the membership vote by a landslide.


The Tory grassroots in England want Boris, end of story!


Mike.

I'm wondering if one of each gender (for balance) will be the final contest.

I find it funny in a sad way that those with skeletons in the cupboard (drugs etc.) are coming out for fear they will get to the final two in a run-off and someone from their past will blow the whistle and scupper their chances.

[Jimbuna]

The final candidates for the Tory leadership race have been confirmed, with 10 running to become the next PM.

The candidates are:

Environment Secretary Michael Gove
Health Secretary Matt Hancock
Former Chief Whip Mark Harper
Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt
Home Secretary Sajid Javid
Former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson
Former Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom
Former Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey
Former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab
International Development Secretary Rory Stewart

No real surprises then.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48584011

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson has pledged to cut income tax bills for people earning more than £50,000 a year if he wins the race to succeed Theresa May as prime minister.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Also, free TV licences for up to 3.7m pensioners are being scrapped, the BBC has announced.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48583487

Soooo, no changes, the Tories continue to look after the rich and ignore the needs of the average citizen.

Good job Steptoe is the leader of the opposition because I blind man on a galloping horse can see that just about anyone else with a little more competence could and should be leading an effective opposition campaign.

[JU_88]

i wouldn't blame the bbc thing on the Tories. to be fair the over 75s are probably one of the biggest demographics still watching the BBC. The young have since gone to Netflix and Youtube and other on-demand streaming services etc. old broadcast tv is in decline everywhere, and bbc are probably trying to keep their numbers up.
Also doesn't help they regularly get accused of bias by more fringey partisans from both sides of the spectrum. (e.g those too far gone to remember how objectivity works)
But, To be honest even though their new coverage is still pretty fair - compared to many others, I wouldn't cough up for them. as an institution overall I don't really think they are massively worth preserving. They should just run ads if they really want to keep going.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 80%
Esther McVey 30%
Jeremy Hunt 75%
Rory Stewart 25%
Matt Hancock 10%
Dominic Raab 40%
Andrea Leadsom 55%
Michael Gove 60%
Sajid Javid 70%
Mark Harper 0%
(% is my predictions so far)

I have a feeling the final two will be Boris and Jeremy as it stands now.

If Boris wins stand by for a wreck that will result in a general election and in comes terrorist supporter steptoe.

As for the BBC they have with luck just committed suicide with that dumbass move. I would like to see that whole rotten organisation come crashing down.

[JU_88]

Oh god its going to Mr bumble isn't it.

BBC are clearly making that move as their funding is drying up.

[STEED]

BBC are clearly making that move as their funding is drying up.

Bloated Bias Crap has for far two long got away saying its a TV licence what a load of crap its a bbc fee. Well I see MayBot is disappointed in there move as she will be heading for the sofa.

[Jimbuna]

Oh god its going to Mr bumble isn't it.



Well, with the promise of tax cuts for the rich he's done exactly what he did with the promise of £350 million a week to the NHS.....stole a lead.

Either way, we should know the eventual outcome in a couple of weeks and the eventual winner being announced in the second last week of July.

The excitement is simply too much :doh:

[STEED]

I hear lynton crosby is running the Boris campaign if this is true then we are screwed. Yes that lynton crosby suspect poll rigger helped Doggy Dave to win the GE.


PLEASE DO NOT ELECT BORIS THE RESULT WILL BE A VICTORY FOR STEPTOE AT THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION.

[MGR1]

...........Also doesn't help they regularly get accused of bias by more fringey partisans from both sides of the spectrum. (e.g those too far gone to remember how objectivity works)

+1.

Bloated Bias Crap has for far two long got away saying its a TV licence what a load of crap its a bbc fee.

Well, there's no requirement to pay the licence fee if you don't use any BBC services.:03: Just avoid anything the BBC do. Besides a lot of their programming ends up on freeview anyway. And PBS America.

Well, with the promise of tax cuts for the rich he's done exactly what he did with the promise of £350 million a week to the NHS.....stole a lead.

Either way, we should know the eventual outcome in a couple of weeks and the eventual winner being announced in the second last week of July.

The excitement is simply too much :doh:

To be partially paid for by an increase in National Insurance, no less. However, his proposed cuts only apply in England, Wales and Northern Ireland as Income Tax is devolved to Holyrood.

In short, it appears that Boris is fully prepared to wage economic warfare against the SNP to force Scotland back into line....

Looks like he's been swatting up on what happened prior to the Act of Union in 1707 - let me introduce the "Alien Act of 1705": LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Act_1705).

The Alien Act provided that Scottish nationals in England were to be treated as aliens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)) (foreign nationals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_national)), and estates held by Scots would be treated as alien property, making inheritance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance) much less certain. It also included an embargo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embargo) on the import (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import) of Scottish products into England and English colonies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire) – about half of Scotland's trade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade), covering goods such as linen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linen), cattle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle) and coal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal). There was also an embargo on the export of arms, ammunition, and horses to Scotland so that they could not raise an army and invade England.


Add that to the economic hurt the ruling elites suffered after the failure of the Darien Scheme and you can see why that segment of Scottish society suddenly started supporting Union with England.....:hmmm:

Mike.

[STEED]

Well, there's no requirement to pay the licence fee if you don't use any BBC services.:03: Just avoid anything the BBC do. Besides a lot of their programming ends up on freeview anyway. And PBS America.

Mike.

Anything that can display that you can watch means you need a licence. Yes folks the BBC will be looking into smart phones and tablets as reported on the radio last night. It's about time the government of the day kicked the BBC in their money bags. I am stopping there as you all can see..I HATE THE BBC.

Back to politics. :)

[Jimbuna]

Day two of the leadership race and all the candidates are divided on what day/date we leave the EU...

God help us :doh:

[STEED]

Day two of the leadership race and all the candidates are divided on what day/date we leave the EU...

God help us :doh:

Just shows they are not fit for the job, I would not trust any of them to make me a cup of coffee. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

The coffee and tea for that matter is quite good in Parliament.

The ales in the Strangers Bar are even better though.

[Catfish]

So the quitters are back.

Was not Mr Boris J. the first to quit, when the "referendum" which wasn't one was won? After blocking and harrassing Mrs May, does he think the party or people will now stand in for him just of all?
What exactly does he intend to do now apart from wrecking the NHS, creating better conditions for the rich and trying to blackmail 27 other nations? Really..

[MGR1]

A bit more on Johnson's tax pledge from a Scottish perspective:

A Boris Johnson victory spells trouble for Ruth Davidson (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/a-boris-johnson-victory-spells-trouble-for-ruth-davidson/)

and

Scots face paying hundreds of pounds more to fund Boris Johnson plan for English income tax cut (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/10/scots-face-paying-hundreds-pounds-fund-boris-johnson-plan-english/)

The Telegraph article is paywalled, but there is a discussion about it on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/bz3vfh/scots_face_paying_hundreds_of_pounds_more_to_fund/?sort=old).

To clarify the taxation question, earned Income Tax collection (PAYE, etc) is devolved to Holyrood and it has the power to alter the rates and bands, but does not have control of the Tax Free allowance level, which is still set and controlled by Westminster. Unearned Income Tax collection (shares, bonds, savings etc) is reserved to Westminster. National Insurance is likewise still under Westminster's control.

A complicated brew, but that's what the current devolution setup is.

Ross "SNP Gain" Thomson's reasons for supporting Boris: LINK (https://www.rossthomson.org.uk/news/back-boris-so-we-can-deliver-people-scotland-and-whole-united-kingdom).

Personally, Thomson's writing guff. Boris only cares for what will get him into office, nothing else.:hmmm:

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

Personally, Thomson's writing guff. Boris only cares for what will get him into office, nothing else.

Precisely :yep:

[MGR1]

Aaaannnnddddd.... we can add generational warfare, courtesy of Reddit!

The Daily Mail (and other British right-wing newspapers) has done to our parents what our parents thought video games would do to us (https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/bza5xt/the_daily_mail_and_other_british_rightwing/?sort=new)

:doh:

Although, this post does have a point, even if you disagree with the premise:

Critical thinking skills.

The people you are describing grew up in a world very different from today. Their necessity to have critical thinking skills was not needed as they had just a couple of TV channels, journalists were noble, the news was worthy, the textbook was right, you never questioned the teacher, very few had a degree or even college education, etc. They were taught to absorb information but not to critically think about it.e.g. there are 9 planets in the solar system. FACT. Remember it. Don't question it.
The next generation grew up with 24hr information overload, hundreds of cable TV channels, the internet was born, sensationalist news crept in, amateur journalists blogged, lad mags & the Sunday sport told us fibs, and we were taught to question the teacher and challenge authority as they might be wrong. Most went to college and many ended up in University. As a result, they were taught to critically think to help decipher the right from the wrong and evaluate the evidence. The current generation can do this from primary school and in real-time.e.g. there used to be the belief by many that there were 9 planets but Pluto is a small rock and if we counted all the small rocks we could end up with lots of 'planets'. Today, it is widely accepted that there are 8 planets and lots of 'dwarf planets' like Pluto. More could be discovered in the future. Some people think the Earth is flat.
In general, the 'baby boomer' generation find all this critical thinking confusing and unnecessary. It complicates the 'facts' and distorts what they think is reality or common sense. All of these confusing viewpoints from so-called experts, all contradicting one another and totally against what they were taught in school/work/the pub. They tend to still think there is one, authoritative source of facts - the media/Government. They tend to look up towards rich, privately educated people for leadership and instructions on what to do and they tend to do it without question.
This is why the media, facebook and posh suits from Oxbridge have such influence over that particular generation - for this is what they were taught, to accept the word from authority and obey.
And the 'millennial' is the polar opposite.


Rather self centered, but it applies not just elements within the Baby Boomer Generation but ALL generational cohorts.:hmmm:

The ability to sift through a lot of information and weigh up the pros and cons for yourself does take a degree of self training that quite a few people, regardless of age, sorely lack.

Mike.

[JU_88]

Nahh, anecdotally I dont think theres too much in that, I know plenty of Boomers with excellent Critical thinking skills, they may have not had cable and internet growing up. but they are generally better read than many of us younger Genx/ Millenial whipper snappers.
Though admittedly they tend to be a little bit more oblivious to certain things related to the culture war. They might read alot of old legacy media but the generally have a good nose for what take with a pinch of salt.

My own Boomer mother is a bit of borderline Marxist, but even she can see that say Guardian's Opinion section is 90% crazy talk. (And I know a few fellow gen X'ers who almost lap up that nonsense with out question.)
Hard to speak for Staunch Right wingers as I don't meet too many down here in London.

Your average Millennial/ GenXer my read alot online, but if they never leave their media bubble or circle jerk of politically like minded mates, that reading is pretty worthless.

[BossMark]

Day two of the leadership race and all the candidates are divided on what day/date we leave the EU...

God help us :doh:


Yes its very frighting as to whats going to happen :doh:


Just shows they are not fit for the job, I would not trust any of them to make me a cup of coffee. :haha:
Or run a bath, or a you know what in a brewery...

[Jimbuna]

Johnson and Javid kick off with their leadership campaigns today and I know which one I prefer.

[MGR1]

Nahh, anecdotally I dont think theres too much in that, I know plenty of Boomers with excellent Critical thinking skills, they may have not had cable and internet growing up. but they are generally better read than many of us younger Genx/ Millenial whipper snappers.
Though admittedly they tend to be a little bit more oblivious to certain things related to the culture war. They might read alot of old legacy media but the generally have a good nose for what take with a pinch of salt.

My own Boomer mother is a bit of borderline Marxist, but even she can see that say Guardian's Opinion section is 90% crazy talk. (And I know a few fellow gen X'ers who almost lap up that nonsense with out question.)
Hard to speak for Staunch Right wingers as I don't meet too many down here in London.

Your average Millennial/ GenXer my read alot online, but if they never leave their media bubble or circle jerk of politically like minded mates, that reading is pretty worthless.

All that's true, but my own observations are based on what I've seen here in the North East of Scotland.

There's a definite difference between those Baby Boomers who grew up in rural areas and those who did so in cities, and also between those who went to state schools and those who were educated privately.

Those who went to school out in the country are much more unquestioning of authority than their brethren from urban centres. All have said that their teachers were very prone to using the belt and other types of corporal punishment to enforce discipline.

Perhaps that says quite a bit about the Scottish Education system of the time.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson kicked off his campaign to succeed Prime Minister Theresa May on Wednesday with a pledge to lead Britain out of the European Union on Oct. 31 and a warning to his divided party that "delay means defeat".
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-bids-for-british-leadership-with-pledge-of-an-october-brexit/ar-AACLQhN?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

What an absolute load of tosh!

We are going to see a leadership change but that doesn't mean a change in the Parliamentary votes.

[STEED]

Well Boris will be pleased with this vote...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48613921

Boris sold his dream well to the dumbass who are going to put him in power.

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 85%
Esther McVey 35%
Jeremy Hunt 75%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 25%
Dominic Raab 45%
Andrea Leadsom 55%
Michael Gove 50%
Sajid Javid 72%
Mark Harper 1%
Sam Gyimah 1%
(% is my predictions so far)

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48613921

[Jimbuna]

Sam Gyimah 1%


He dropped out a couple of days ago.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48613921

It's just so laughable Sky, about two thirds of Parliament are against a no deal Brexit yet they can't even agree on measures to prevent it.

IIRC almost ten Labour votes were cast in opposing the Labour motion and about thirteen abstained.

That could all change as time draws closer and constituency influence is applied.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

ROUND 1 KNOCK OUT RESULTS

Boris Johnson 90%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 1%
Matt Hancock 1%
Dominic Raab 35%
Michael Gove 40%
Sajid Javid 25%
(% is my predictions so far)

It looks like Boris is going to storm home with victory!

Prepare for a Labour Government and a terrorist supporter as PM.

[Jimbuna]

No big surprises in the result but I'll make one obsevation.....

No female candidates remaining.

[STEED]

No big surprises in the result but I'll make one obsevation.....

No female candidates remaining.

It was bound to happen after MayBot bogged up. No more Tory women leaders for a while,it's time for a BUFFOON leader. :03:

[STEED]

Change UK has applied to the Electoral Commission to change its name following a dispute with the petitions website Change.org.

The party has written to the elections watchdog asking to be renamed The Independent Group for Change.

It says Change.org is threatening to sue its MPs unless the party alters its name by 15 June.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48629838

OH THIS IS SO....:har: :har: :har: :har:

[STEED]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48631116

Give it a week or two and Chuka will be off to the Greens next. :haha:

Meanwhile in the tory leadership race Hancock maybe pulling out.

[Jimbuna]

OH THIS IS SO....:har: :har: :har: :har:

I wonder if Anna Soubry is starting to regret leaving the Tory benches :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48631116

Give it a week or two and Chuka will be off to the Greens next. :haha:

Meanwhile in the tory leadership race Hancock maybe pulling out.

He's simply getting a feel for them all before deciding. You know, like trying on jackets in a tailors :)

Yes, Hancock has pulled out (no pun intended).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48631706

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 90%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 1%
Dominic Raab 31%
Michael Gove 42%
Sajid Javid 29%
(% is my predictions so far)


Boris Johnson has said he will take part in Tuesday's televised Tory leadership debate on the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48638758

[STEED]

THE BIG INTERVIEW

STEED interviews Boris..

PART ONE

Good evening Boris and welcome to the UK Politics Thread...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/09/boris-johnson_3_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqeo_i_u9APj8RuoebjoAHt0 k9u7HhRJvuo-ZLenGRumA.jpg?imwidth=450
ERR, ERMMM it's great to be here..HELLO.


So Boris it looks like you are going to be our next Prime Minister are you up to the job?

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8115299.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Boris-Johnson.jpg
ERRR, UMMMM,ERR...Well lets not rush into it after all its a long way to go.

Fair enough Boris..

OK the big one, how are you going to tackle the EU over Brexit?

https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/12651127_10153743881530266_8645936181417877212_n.j pg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C418&ssl=1

How do you like my new hair cut?


END OF PART ONE

[STEED]

THE BIG INTERVIEW

STEED interviews Boris..

PART TWO

What has that got to do with my question?

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/20/12/366BA58600000578-0-image-m-138_1469015172783.jpg
UMMMM, ERRMMMM, ERRRR...Its all part of my plan to give us the British the feel good factor.

Right.....:doh:

Boris please this is important, if you succeed in becoming PM how are you going to break the dead lock in Parliament?

http://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Boris-Johnson-5.jpg
WITH A CRAZY BUN FIGHT OF COURSE....HEY HEY HEY.


END OF PART TWO

[STEED]

THE BIG INTERVIEW

STEED interviews Boris..

PART THREE

So you have no idea and will make a mess of Brexit?

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/130/590x/secondary/Boris-Johnson-haircut-2019-Pictures-of-politician-s-new-hair-1779133.jpg?r=1552552945329
OF COURSE NOT, I HAVE A BLOODY PLAN YOU KNOW!

Care to share it with us all?

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R6flnYoiDIA/WqPqcc5d0aI/AAAAAAAAGzI/-Rl2DzYhEtkfsealRcEe0tRKv2mlpI0AQCLcBGAs/s1600/BORIS%2B2.jpg
No..ERRRRR, UMMMMMM, No.


Clearly you have no plan what so ever and you will be a joke of a PM and on that note thank you Boris and good night.

https://www.insidesources.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/AP_741084152991-300x300.jpg
That STEED is clearly mad and had no idea, I'm off to the BBC next...


END

[Reece]

You are a fine interviewer STEED, you handled that clown with tact. :up:

[BossMark]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 90%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 1%
Dominic Raab 31%
Michael Gove 42%
Sajid Javid 29%
(% is my predictions so far)


Choosing one of these six is like having 6 choices of how to be executed, all bad choices indeed... And in the end it will be down to just 2 and then about 160,000 idiots will more than likely choose Donald Trumps love child Boris :wah::wah::wah::wah:

[BossMark]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48631116

Give it a week or two and Chuka will be off to the Greens next. :haha:

There should be a by-election after all the people of Streatham voted for a Labour MP

[Jimbuna]

The government is in "pretty good shape" to cope with a no-deal Brexit, the head of civil service has said.

Speaking at an event organised by the Institute for Government, Cabinet Secretary Sir Mark Sedwill said there had been "a lot of preparation".

He said: "We have got the government in pretty good shape and public services in pretty good shape for it".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48631741

I'm not so sure :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Jeremy Corbyn has questioned whether the government has "credible evidence" to show Iran is behind the attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said responsibility for Thursday's attacks "almost certainly" lies with the Iranian regime.

But the Labour leader tweeted that there was no evidence for this.

Mr Hunt responded that Mr Corbyn's comments were "pathetic" and said he should back British intelligence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48645280

Good old Steptoe can always be relied on to back the terrorist side :nope:

[STEED]

There should be a by-election after all the people of Streatham voted for a Labour MP There all taking the mick these ex-lab/cons lot. I agree they should all hold by-elections.

[STEED]

Good old Steptoe can always be relied on to back the terrorist side :nope:Every so often his true colours come through. Unfit for the Labour Party, come on sensible Labour get rid of him and his gang.

[Jimbuna]

That isn't going to happen whilst Momentum are around.

[Jimbuna]

The second televised debate, the one Johnson has agreed to attend could get interesting if Rory Stewart survives the next round of voting (unlikely).

This article explains well the act of proroguing Parliament and the potential consequences.

https://news.sky.com/story/we-will-bring-him-down-tory-rival-rory-stewarts-threat-to-boris-johnson-11741160

[BossMark]

Every so often his true colours come through. Unfit for the Labour Party, come on sensible Labour get rid of him and his gang.
How true, and yes i wish so but unfortunatly it wont happen just yet.

[Catfish]

Good old Steptoe can always be relied on to back the terrorist side :nope:

Because asking for hard evidence? The UK has always been quick in being on the US side recently. I also remember some of it has been a scam.
Whatever you think of Corbyn, is it too much to request real evidence from (y)our allies before starting another war in the Middle East?
Does the UK have real hard evidence as you mentioned? :hmmm:

'We have no reason not to believe the American assessment and our instinct is to believe it because they are our closest ally'
- Jeremy Hunt, UK foreign secretary
Being an ally is obviously enough. Good they never played you before.
But maybe it helps you with the US post brexit negotiations :03:

[mapuc]

So Boris Johnson is the favorite to take over.

What I wonder is:

What does or what can he do what May couldn't do about this Brexit ?

And can he do better than the other candidate ?

Markus

[Catfish]

So Boris Johnson is the favorite to take over.
What I wonder is:
What does or what can he do what May couldn't do about this Brexit ?
And can he do better than the other candidate ?
Markus

^ It was all answered in Steed's interview ..

Love it, b.t.w. :D

[STEED]

So Boris Johnson is the favorite to take over.

What I wonder is:

What does or what can he do what May couldn't do about this Brexit ?

And can he do better than the other candidate ?

Markus

Here you go.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2614223&postcount=10216


:03: :up:

[Jimbuna]

So Boris Johnson is the favorite to take over.

What I wonder is:

What does or what can he do what May couldn't do about this Brexit ?

And can he do better than the other candidate ?

Markus

Probably absolutely nothing, the guy is deemed a clown by too many at home and on the international stage.

[Skybird]

No matter which head it will be trying to break through it, the wall said head is up against is still the same.


What I wonder is how easily politicians can get away even with saying two totally contradictory things on one and the very same day, just hours apart,with running cameras and open mikes around.

[Jimbuna]

No matter which head it will be trying to break through it, the wall said head is up against is still the same.


What I wonder is how easily politicians can get away even with saying two totally contradictory things on one and the very same day, just hours apart,with running cameras and open mikes around.

That's politics and politicians the world over these days Sky :yep:

[STEED]

Rory Stewart seems to be the only one that can see the EU is finished on the Brexit issue no more talks or deals. Clearly on the make but its not his time yet.

[Jimbuna]

Didn't even bother going to the trouble to watch last nights debate :shifty:

[STEED]

Didn't even bother going to the trouble to watch last nights debate :shifty:

No Boris no point, just as well I was watching M*A*S*H far more entertaining. I will not bother watching it on catch up or on line as said no Boris no point. :)

[Jimbuna]

I'll not bother when the clown makes his appearance either.

[BossMark]

^^^
Me neither would rather watch grass grow, thats a lot more entertaining.

[Jimbuna]

Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has described another Brexit referendum as "the least worst option" and urged his party to throw its weight behind one.

Speaking to the BBC, he said Labour should then fight for Remain, even though "we might lose some votes".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48658683

And to think I voted for you and assisted in getting you into office :nope:

[MGR1]

Good article from the NewStatesman:

The Tories would now rather face Scottish Independence than lose Brexit (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/tories-would-now-rather-face-scottish-independence-lose-brexit)

Reddit discussion: LINK (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/c1oezi/the_tories_would_now_rather_face_scottish/?sort=new).

Pretty much sums up the situation from a Scottish perspective. Take a massive economic hit from the UK leaving the EU with no deal, or take a massive economic hit by voting for independence from the UK (but only if Westminster agrees to a vote).

Conservative and Unionist Party my rear end....:down:

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

Looks like 'damned if you do' and 'damned if you don't' either way not a positive outcome :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

The Tory leadership contest will enter the next stage later when a second round of voting is held in Parliament.

Conservative MPs will vote by secret ballot in the Commons, with a result expected some time after 18:00 BST.

Any of the six remaining candidates will be eliminated from the contest if they come last or fail to secure at least 33 votes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48671048

https://i.imgur.com/9GLxBxm.gif

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 90%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 12%
Dominic Raab 15%
Michael Gove 30%
Sajid Javid 25%
(% is my predictions so far)

ROUND TWO KNOCKOUT 6PM TONIGHT..

I know jim will be on the edge of his sofa saying no beer the results are coming in, far more important. Or is that the other way around. :03:

Danger Zone for Knock out
Rory Stewart
Dominic Raab
Michael Gove
Sajid Javid

[STEED]

And to think I voted for you and assisted in getting you into office :nope:Hang on you gave him the thumbs up the other day. In the words of Trump.."What the hell is going on"

[BossMark]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 90%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 12%
Dominic Raab 15%
Michael Gove 30%
Sajid Javid 25%
(% is my predictions so far)

ROUND TWO KNOCKOUT 6PM TONIGHT..

I know jim will be on the edge of his sofa saying no beer the results are coming in, far more important. Or is that the other way around. :03:

Danger Zone for Knock out
Rory Stewart
Dominic Raab
Michael Gove
Sajid Javid


I would love to knock them all out :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Hang on you gave him the thumbs up the other day. In the words of Trump.."What the hell is going on"

That was before his statement yesterday.

[Jimbuna]

I would love to knock them all out :yep:

https://i.imgur.com/QU5Ly0W.gif

[MGR1]

Latest YouGov poll of Conservative party members: LINK (https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1140885366360203264?s=19).


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9U5GSeXsAEQ19X.jpg


And these are the people who will be choosing our next PM.......


Mike.:doh:

[Jimbuna]

Most annoying and even more so worrying :nope: