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Ruth Davidson could be going...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49502861
Of course this will not dent bojo in any way.
Nor will this...
https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-thousands-sign-petition-against-johnsons-suspension-of-parliament-11796215
Skybird
08-28-19, 02:04 PM
Furthermore The Parliament shouldn't pointing fingers at B.J. and accuse him for...(forgot the word) ´cause the way they have acted or lack of acting in the Brexit, show that they(the parliament) have the biggest fault.
100% correct.
Also, Corbyn has no point to make if meeting the Queen. In these days, its Her Majesty's government by name only - not by meaning.
Formally, Johnson, as far as I understand the British system, has practiced means of the PM's legal, formally encoded powers, with precedences of PMs before having done it, too.
A parliament that has made such a foul joke and hilarious carricature of itself in past months, has no moral ground to claim anymore. If now they get outmanouvered, the only ones they have to accuse for that, are themselves.
Johnson really sets upa a fight on all fronts, it seems. It was this kind aggressiveness that I expected from the british side from day one after the referendum on - and practiced against the EU.
This crisis comes from a disagreement on what modern "democracy" should be. Is the will of the voting majoirty of the people at its focus, or is the will of a small fraudulent wannabe-elite that creeps to and usurps power at its focus by using decepetion, bribery, fraud and lies? Both is not what the ancient Greek idea was about, so do not even try to start loooking there, ancient Greek and modern contemporary democracy are two totally different things, the one being the antagonist to the other.
Skybird
08-29-19, 04:20 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49504526
Johnson said "The candyfloss of outrage we've had over the last 24 hours, which I think is almost entirely confected, is from people who never wanted to leave the European Union," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "This is the greatest period of anger for them, or of confected anger, because after 31 October we will have left," he added.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/28/jacob-rees-mogg-accuses-mps-trying-thwart-brexit-risking-constitutional/
Reese-Moog said the only "constitutional crisis" was being caused by those who opposed the decision of the 2016 referendum. Think of him what you want, he is right with that.
So the resignations have started with some guy in the HoL's and now this..
Ruth Davidson has quit as leader of the Scottish Conservatives
Bojo has sealed his fate what that is time will tell and yet they are all a bloody disgrace acting like a load of dickheads. This bloody mess has shown these B'stards are bloody unfit the whole bloody lot of them should be sacked.
STOP VOTING FOR MORONS!
Skybird
08-29-19, 05:28 AM
STOP VOTING FOR MORONS!
Why saying it twice? Stop voting. Morons they all are. Else they would not be up for voting.
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 05:41 AM
No surprise and understandable. However these kind of situations raise one important question: if the Queen does not have power to scrutinize morally or legally questionable advice, then why such position should exist? I'm not saying, that Her Majesty should be granted power to completely overrule HM Government, but power to subject such questionalble advice to parliamentary vote, would be sensible in my opinion.
The last time that happened Parliament (Cromwell) raised an army and the monarch was executed (King Charles 1). :)
bertieck476
08-29-19, 05:43 AM
Worth listening to all of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHlfMyQbiNs
Why saying it twice? Stop voting. Morons they all are. Else they would not be up for voting.
The average voter in this county has fallen for the lies and lies and more lies with a good helping of BS.
I feel like the Omega Man hold up in my bunker surrounded by fools telling me I must vote for XYZ reason. Why!...These B'stards have taken it upon themselves not to work for me so why should I vote for these B'stards!
And the worst thing is this fact these lot will look good in 10 years time for that lot will be worst than them.
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 05:44 AM
After have following your comments in this thread and by following the news in Denmark, Sweden and a little in German
I understand why B.J. Toke this step.
Furthermore The Parliament shouldn't pointing fingers at B.J. and accuse him for...(forgot the word) ´cause the way they have acted or lack of acting in the Brexit, show that they(the parliament) have the biggest fault.
The British people voted for a Brexit-Please respect this.
Markus
100% correct.
Also, Corbyn has no point to make if meeting the Queen. In these days, its Her Majesty's government by name only - not by meaning.
Formally, Johnson, as far as I understand the British system, has practiced means of the PM's legal, formally encoded powers, with precedences of PMs before having done it, too.
A parliament that has made such a foul joke and hilarious carricature of itself in past months, has no moral ground to claim anymore. If now they get outmanouvered, the only ones they have to accuse for that, are themselves.
Johnson really sets upa a fight on all fronts, it seems. It was this kind aggressiveness that I expected from the british side from day one after the referendum on - and practiced against the EU.
This crisis comes from a disagreement on what modern "democracy" should be. Is the will of the voting majoirty of the people at its focus, or is the will of a small fraudulent wannabe-elite that creeps to and usurps power at its focus by using decepetion, bribery, fraud and lies? Both is not what the ancient Greek idea was about, so do not even try to start loooking there, ancient Greek and modern contemporary democracy are two totally different things, the one being the antagonist to the other.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49504526
Johnson said "The candyfloss of outrage we've had over the last 24 hours, which I think is almost entirely confected, is from people who never wanted to leave the European Union," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "This is the greatest period of anger for them, or of confected anger, because after 31 October we will have left," he added.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/28/jacob-rees-mogg-accuses-mps-trying-thwart-brexit-risking-constitutional/
Reese-Moog said the only "constitutional crisis" was being caused by those who opposed the decision of the 2016 referendum. Think of him what you want, he is right with that.
Agreed in entirety :yep:
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 05:48 AM
Worth listening to all of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHlfMyQbiNs
Don't have a lot of time for the guy because of the way he portrays himself but nor can I argue with what he is saying here because he is 100% correct.
Skybird
08-29-19, 06:02 AM
The average voter in this county has fallen for the lies and lies and more lies with a good helping of BS.
Of course they have. Thats what makes morons morons. Modern democracy: in plain English: clueless voter bribery and incompetent voter persuasion.
The whole dersign we have these days - it doe snot cut it. It just doe snot cut it. Its insane.
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 06:05 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/wvC8GxwB/0-t-Vg00d0q-TMUFVNv-X.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Of course they have. Thats what makes morons morons. Modern democracy: in plain English: clueless voter bribery and incompetent voter persuasion.
The whole dersign we have these days - it doe snot cut it. It just doe snot cut it. Its insane.
Is there any hope SKY or our we the very very few doomed as the Dodo? :ping:
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 06:09 AM
Is there any hope SKY or our we the very very few doomed as the Dodo? :ping:
In all seriousness I'd say your'e actually thriving on the subject.
In all seriousness I'd say your'e actually thriving on the subject.
Nah, making no money from it. :haha:
Skybird
08-29-19, 07:01 AM
Is there any hope SKY or our we the very very few doomed as the Dodo? :ping:
Its like an explosion taking place in extreme slow motion. You see the fireball, the smoke cloud, the debris in the air - all frozen still.People think they can safely work around them, avoiding them. But when you look long eno9ugh, you see its slow movement, and then you can canclude how it necessarily ends. Explosions never construct. They destroy. Or should I say: implosions, collapses. Its all the same.
That we do not feel hit by the shockwave every day does not mean it is not there, is not expanding, is not unfolding. Its real for sure.
And slomo may be switched off just any time. Thats what historians later would call "turning points of history". Then things may go very fast, quickly, faster than anyone previously imagined. The fall of the wall and German reunfication were such examples. The last outbreak of symptoms of the financial crisis back in 2007 was another. It must not all slide and go in an rush all of a sudden. But it can. We are dancing and partying on a grumbling volcano.
Add to these domestic political problems more material ones, even more direct ones. Cyber terrorism. Cyber warfare by a hostile nation. Blackout due to cyberstrikes, or collapse of the powergrid by inherent instability (thank you, Germany...). Pandemics. These are the likely and by far not unreasonable scenarios on my mind. Not to mention: collapse of FIAT money system.
All this is the reason why I have activated my personal material preparation plan earlier this year, and now am sitting on ressources that could keep me afloat for quite some time if supply lines and logistics break down: food, water, energy, fuel, heat, hygienic articles, batteries, medicine. I one day woke up and thought of how my grandparents did. And it dawned me that being prepared is not stupid or exotic or crazy - but a virtue. My scenario is limited to urban survival, however. I am too old and vunerable and weak for the wilderness stuff nowadays - not to menton that there is no wilderness in reach of the next couple of hundreds of kilometers .
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 07:35 AM
Is this you then ? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQC5paWtOcQ
Jimbuna
08-29-19, 07:43 AM
Ruth Davidson has quit as leader of the Scottish Conservatives after eight years in the job. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49509275
Well, here it is, the most predictable outcome I suppose. She never did get on with Boris and tbh she is far from being alone on the matter.
Skybird
08-29-19, 09:50 AM
Is this you then ? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQC5paWtOcQ
The guy in the video is sober to ther point of beeing boring - but he is right with all he said.
Being prepared, is reasonable. Like driving a car with a 5 or 10 l reserve canister of gas on your backseat. Or travelling a desert with that additional extra bottle of sweet water in your rucksack. Or locking your housedoor before leaving the place.
I am stored up for 90 days of comfortable life and eating and drinking, cooiking and heating and caring for sanitary needs, if rationizing, even longer. But I planned for my parents as well who are older and not as interested in doing this kind of thing anymore, so when dividing stuff by three, its enough for around 30 days, 4-5 weeks. Which is a reasonable timeframe, i would say. Neverending zombie-doomsday apocalypse is not what I had on mind.
I also have a bug out bag, a love from my travelling times in the nineties. There is an active nuzclear plant eat-northeast of Münster, Lingen, and the wind often comes from right that direction. There is a bttery of old, some very critical nuke plants in the Western plkaces of Belgium and Francer. And switched-off nuclear plants still could turn into hazards. The bag is packed with urban needs on mind, not living in the wilderness. But I can grab basic stuff and jump start for evacuation within 5 minutes and holding out by my own means for 48 hours, in urban environment or in nature.
Also, as a matter of fact, a national or continental blackout is anything but unreasonable. Since the German "Energiewende", the powergrid in Germany - once praised or being the possibly most stable one in the world - has become increasingly shaky, and there is, since years, not a single week, without critical events and incidents that are caused by too much heat, too much cold, overproduction, short: by ammounts of balancing acts needed that put enormous stress on the electric infrastrastructure of the whole continent and that pushes more and more often to the brink of collapse. Our neighbouring states are so very thankful for the stupid germans hysterically destroying their powergrid stability for surreal Angst, by that negatively influencing and compromsing the powergrid stability of the whole continent. I have to go back to my pre-school childhood to remember the last time I expoerienced a short power blackpout, it must have been in the early 70s. But since some years, micro blackouts, lasting less than a second, are back, two this year, three last year, two in the year before. The last one is just days ago. I have not seen that for around 45 years! Taken for themselves they look as harmless, singular irrelevant events. But in the bigger picture, they send a clear message of that the power supply in germany is fastly detoriating, and that the powergrid on many days of the year work on the very brink of disaster. And if we have one day of blackout, the consequences of that will be felt for WEEKS to come even if after 24 hours power is back. Thanks to globalization, disassembling of stockpiled reserve management and just-on-demand supply of ressources. The length of production and logistic chains will function like a catalysator for the negative effects of a blackout. And for itself, you cannot just switch off and on a powergrid of a nation or continent just from one hour to the next - some steps ake DAYS of preparation, and that means regions will lack electricity even days after the blackout already has '"ended". - In the ealry 00-years we had a severe winter her ein the Northwestern German region, around my hometown, electricity and heating went off for I think 2-3 days. And that already was when the grid had plenty of reserve structures and capacities - which it does not have these days anymore.
People just do not think about it, because it makes you feel the fundamental and growing insecurity we have to live in. But there is no freedom without self responsibility. If you always demand the state to care for every little detail, you just sell away both your self responsibility and your freedom. And your ability to do things yourself you sell away anyway. You become a dependant, weak lamb.
So the nameless one will try a power grab next week and if it succeeds I just like too point out no one elected you. So you the nameless one will look like a right dork after declaring the same about Bojo.
When it comes down to the bigger monster you the nameless one or brexit i have a feeling parliament would rather stop you the nameless one first.
Here we go folks that scum organisation is calling for action against bojo.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/106159/momentum-urges-supporters-shut-down-streets-protest-against-parliament
I wonder if the way the British people voted in this referendum, can tell us if they support Boris J or not in this closing the Parliament ?
Markus
I wonder if the way the British people voted in this referendum, can tell us if they support Boris J or not in this closing the Parliament ?
Markus
I voted leave as in a proper agreed agreement that was fair for both sides. Unfortunately politician's got in the way causing the bloody mess we have today. And no i don't support bojo's actions that have sealed his fate which only time will tell one way or the other.
I do agree the whole thing has been blown up by the media and the pro EU supporters which will lead to the other side of the fence hitting back....Vicious circle getting worst.:nope:
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 04:49 AM
Here we go folks that scum organisation is calling for action against bojo.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/106159/momentum-urges-supporters-shut-down-streets-protest-against-parliament
And this could well turn into the civil unrest I made mention of earlier.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 04:50 AM
I wonder if the way the British people voted in this referendum, can tell us if they support Boris J or not in this closing the Parliament ?
Markus
Highly unlikely Markus because the referendum had no connection withg Boris or the closure of Parliament.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 04:55 AM
A Scottish judge has refused to order a temporary halt to Boris Johnson's plan to shut down the UK Parliament.
A group of 75 parliamentarians were seeking an interim interdict - similar to an injunction - at the Court of Session ahead of a full hearing.
Their request was declined by Lord Doherty, who said he was not satisfied there was a "cogent need" for an interdict.
However the full hearing will now be heard next Tuesday, rather than Friday.
Lord Doherty told the court that it was in the interest of justice, and in the public interest, that the case proceeds sooner rather than later.
But he said: "I am not satisfied that it has been demonstrated that there is a need for an interim suspension or an interim interdict to be granted at this stage."
This was largely because the full case will be heard before 9 September - the first possible date that parliament can be suspended.
The judge will hear legal arguments from the parliamentarians and the UK government on Tuesday, with his final ruling potentially being delivered the following day. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49521132
A first round victory for common sense but only a temporary one until the final hearing is concluded.
And this could well turn into the civil unrest I made mention of earlier.
I agree this could spill over on to the streets and get very ugly. Riots are not the answer and achieve nothing. Politician's caused this and they damn well better get this sorted out before we see riots up and down the land.
That court case only took place in Scotland because the High Court here was closed.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 05:47 AM
I can't see the judicial system wanting to get involved if they can avoid it at all because there are no laws actually being broken.
One thing is crystal clear though, this whole sordid affair is bringing all the elected individuals opposed to the referendum result out of the shadows and I predict many of them are signing away their political futures at the next general election.
The recent EU election whilst not exactly mirroring a general election did show a clear pattern of how the UK electorate might vote and Steptoe in particular has obviously forgotten how badly that turned out for Labour.
kraznyi_oktjabr
08-30-19, 05:50 AM
That court case only took place in Scotland because the High Court here was closed.Did BoJo arrange extra holiday for people in the High Cout or what is the reason for this closure?
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 05:52 AM
The Scottish court had the quickest/nearest free slot.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 06:34 AM
Warning : Entire clip contains Politically Incorrect comments on just about everything by 21st Century standards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVol4Q6rQMk
Bilge_Rat
08-30-19, 06:49 AM
The courts wont get involved. The PMs actions are legal and Constitutional and there is precedent for it.
The only recourse is political, a vote of non confidence in the Commons.
Boris is playing hardball, but politics is not a game for gentlemen.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 07:04 AM
^ Agreed :yep:
Even if a vote of no confidence was achieved, Boris would simply ignore the fact and carry on.
Bilge_Rat
08-30-19, 07:18 AM
Btw, former Canadian PM Harper is informally advising Johnson. Harper used the same tactic in 2008 to survive a no confidence vote he was certain to lose. By the time Parliament reconvened a few months later, he had managed to peel away an opposition party and survived the no confidence vote. No doubt the idea came partly from him.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 09:19 AM
Doesn't look like Steptoes request for an audience with Her Majesty will be accepted.
https://i.postimg.cc/DySb6kSz/70207253-2415002538754548-3819059441857200128-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 09:33 AM
Undeterred he is on his way to Balmoral anyway.
https://i.postimg.cc/zB63P72g/70004465-2616991081696094-6117938496607879168-o.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Skybird
08-30-19, 10:27 AM
The courts wont get involved. The PMs actions are legal and Constitutional and there is precedent for it.
The only recourse is political, a vote of non confidence in the Commons.
Boris is playing hardball, but politics is not a game for gentlemen.
Now imagine the British PM, no matter the name, would have done so since over two years ago. And a Backstop rule never would habe been signed by this PM.
How different a ball game it would be today.
Jimbuna
08-30-19, 10:37 AM
Now imagine the British PM, no matter the name, would have done so since over two years ago. And a Backstop rule never would habe been signed by this PM.
How different a ball game it would be today.
Very true, Cameron started the ball rolling and May added to the problem.
kraznyi_oktjabr
08-30-19, 12:46 PM
Very true, Cameron started the ball rolling and May added to the problem.Agreed. Howefver I have to remind, that BoJo and his fellas contributed into this mess by giving unrealistic promises before the referendum. I still don't understand thinking behind the idea, that you could get better terms when outside the EU compared to situation as a member state. If the EU allowed such situation to exist, it would undermine it's own existence.
Skybird
08-30-19, 02:56 PM
Johnson did not expect that the Brexit referendum would be won back then. He just wanted to pose as the mad hound of parliament. When the referendum was won, he got bitten by reality.
That was almost three years ago. What his drive today is, I do not know. Maybe its just a game for him.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49523055
Oh this is so funny and why? John Major did the same thing back in 1997 "cash for questions report" trying to block a report from coming out putting him in a bad light. :haha:
Chancellor Sajid Javid "voiced his anger" to Boris Johnson over the sacking of one of his special advisers by No 10, the BBC has learned.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49532243
IF..Dominic Cummings was responsible for the sacking what power has he got to do that, after all hes just adviser himself. :hmmm:
Jimbuna
08-31-19, 04:57 AM
Johnson did not expect that the Brexit referendum would be won back then. He just wanted to pose as the mad hound of parliament. When the referendum was won, he got bitten by reality.
That was almost three years ago. What his drive today is, I do not know. Maybe its just a game for him.
Pretty much sums up my thinking :yep:
Jimbuna
08-31-19, 04:59 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49523055
Oh this is so funny and why? John Major did the same thing back in 1997 "cash for questions report" trying to block a report from coming out putting him in a bad light. :haha:
The many faces of a politician.
Jimbuna
08-31-19, 05:02 AM
IF..Dominic Cummings was responsible for the sacking what power has he got to do that, after all hes just adviser himself. :hmmm:
Here be the answer "Security clearance had been withdrawn from Ms Khan after she had been summoned to a meeting with the prime minister's senior adviser and de facto chief of staff Dominic Cummings".
I don't trust Dominic Cummings he has too much influence over Bojo. I have a bad feeling he is pulling the strings behind the scenes.
Jimbuna
08-31-19, 05:43 AM
Mays achilles heel was the fact she trusted no one to be her confidant or advisor.
Jimbuna
08-31-19, 06:46 AM
Demonstrations are taking place across the UK against Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament in the run-up to Brexit.
Thousands of protesters have taken to the streets in cities including Leeds, York and Belfast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49534940
I put the lions share of the blame for this squarely on the shoulders of Steptoe and his Momentum bunch.
I put the lions share of the blame for this squarely on the shoulders of Steptoe and his Momentum bunch.The nameless one would blame bojo for plunging the UK into this mess.
Jimbuna
09-01-19, 03:23 AM
The EU's lead Brexit negotiator has rejected Boris Johnson's demands for the Irish backstop to be scrapped.
Michel Barnier said the backstop - intended to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland - was the "maximum flexibility" the EU could offer.
Mr Johnson has previously told the EU the arrangement must be ditched if a no-deal Brexit was to be avoided.
Meanwhile, the PM has told rebel Tories they face a "fundamental choice" of siding with him or Jeremy Corbyn.
His comments come as some MPs who oppose a no-deal Brexit - including Conservatives - are planning to take action in Parliament next week.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49540681
I'll give it about a fortnight and we should know by then if there will be a snap election.
I'll give it about a fortnight and we should know by then if there will be a snap election.
Can not see it unless something big hits the fan, bigger than the big bang. :03:
Jimbuna
09-01-19, 09:54 AM
An enforced piece of legislation disallowing a brexit without a deal or a handful of Tory remainers defying the whip would suffice.
Jimbuna
09-01-19, 09:57 AM
^ Ha....just in, must mean I'm psychic.
MPs who want to stop a no-deal Brexit will seek to bring forward legislation against it this week, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer has said.
He said the plan was to prevent the PM "from taking us out of the EU without a deal" but he did not go into detail.
Cabinet minister Michael Gove refused to guarantee that the government would abide by it if it passed, saying: "Let's see what the legislation says."
The government is "not doing anything to facilitate a no deal", he said.
Mr Gove also said "some" food prices "may go up" and "other prices will come down" in the event of a no-deal Brexit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49541942
Politician's are good at one thing talking a bill down in the HoC/L. Yes it will be a interesting week but I'm not falling for mass media hype, those days for me are over.
Teflon Tony is back, Monday will see him give a Brexit speech but what caught my attention on the news old Teflon Tony will say Labour must avoid a snap general election.
The way I see that as it stands on that small snippet of news Labour are better off where they are. Why...I would say Bojo is starting to act like a mad man and the more draconian he comes the better the odds for Labour.
Of course saying that I need to hear his speech and these events unfolding our being taken over by the minute with something new. Its getting chaotic and this week coming oh heck....:doh:
Jimbuna
09-02-19, 05:12 AM
The government is trying to "purge" Tory rebels who oppose it over Brexit, ex-Justice Secretary David Gauke says.
A senior source from the whips office - which ensures MPs vote on party lines - said those who voted to block no deal would be expelled and deselected.
The threat came as opposition MPs prepared to introduce legislation in an effort to avoid no deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49543430
This should be a most pivotal and entertaining week ahead.
It looks like Boris is sticking to his 'do or die' position and in so doing is the first PM in a good while to have the gonads to carry out what he says he will.
Jimbuna
09-02-19, 05:14 AM
Former prime minister Tony Blair has warned Jeremy Corbyn that having a general election before Brexit would be an "elephant trap".
Speaking at an event hosted by the Institute for Government, Mr Blair said the "brutally clear" challenge in an election is that the opposition vote would be split and "under our system, that delivers a comfortable Tory majority".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49551843/tony-blair-election-before-brexit-is-an-elephant-trap
First piece of sensible rhetoric I have heard from him for a long time.
The nameless one has given a speech about a new radical labour government, yea momentum pulling all the strings.
Jimbuna
09-02-19, 08:31 AM
Former prime minister Tony Blair has warned Jeremy Corbyn that having a general election before Brexit would be an "elephant trap".
Speaking at an event hosted by the Institute for Government, Mr Blair said the "brutally clear" challenge in an election is that the opposition vote would be split and "under our system, that delivers a comfortable Tory majority".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...-elephant-trap
First piece of sensible rhetoric I have heard from him for a long time.
Jeremy Corbyn says the UK "needs" a general election, despite warnings from Tony Blair that such a vote would be "an elephant trap" for Labour.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49552403
Why not, he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Jimbuna
09-02-19, 08:43 AM
I reckon some treasonous people should refresh their memories.
https://www.facebook.com/ChangeBritain/videos/390083781817770/
"If we vote to leave, then we will leave."
Jimbuna
09-02-19, 02:07 PM
The government is expected to table a motion to hold a general election on 14 October if it is defeated by MPs opposed to a no-deal Brexit on Tuesday.
Boris Johnson said he did not want an election, but progress with the EU would be "impossible" if they won. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49558596
I'm not Boris biggest fan but I thought the speech he gave from outside No 10 was fair and balanced.
Substitute she for he and you got.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3PKE8uTSp8
In the mean time I will say this Bojo faces a much more up hill battle than Maybot did and here's why. With Ruth stepping down as leader in Scotland they could loose half those seats to the SNP, here in England the Brexit party will do a lot of damage to Bojo. The DUP could redraw their support from Bojo in another hung parliament if they don't get what they want.
Bojo is a great campaigner but not PM material he can not focus to long before getting bored and moving on.
The only winners will be the LibDems but they will not be the biggest party.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 04:13 AM
Philip Hammond says he is prepared for the "fight of a lifetime" in order to stand as a Conservative in the next election.
The former chancellor told Today "I am going to defend my party against incomers, entryists...people who are at the heart of this government who care nothing about the future of the Conservative party."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49563297/philip-hammond-i-am-going-to-defend-my-party
Not if you're deselected you aint.
^What rot, nothing to do with the party more like his cosy pay, holidays and all those nice trimmings that come with being a MP.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 04:21 AM
He's a millionaire actually so I suspect this is about personal pride and public face.
Well then he can set up a new conservative party with all that dosh.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 04:43 AM
Actually despite the opinions of a growing number of the public and dare I say yourself included, some, not a great many but some politicians are genuine people who are in politics because they believe in what they do for the good of the electorate.
Over the years I have met quite few and they are like a breath of fresh air, often cleansing me of pent up cynicism.
Sadly, there are a great many who are the exact opposite but when you meet them you soon suss them out and learn not to take any notice of their rantings.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 08:52 AM
The PM faces a showdown in Parliament later as MPs aim to take control of the agenda to stop a no-deal Brexit.
Ex-chancellor and Tory rebel Philip Hammond said he thought there was enough support for the bill, seeking to delay the UK's exit date, to pass.
No 10 officials warned the prime minister would push for an election on 14 October if the government lost.
Boris Johnson said he did not want an election, but progress with the EU would be "impossible" if MPs won.
Last-ditch efforts to get the Tory rebels on side have been taking place, but BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said the meeting between the prime minister and the group went "less than swimmingly" and was "less than cordial".
There are thought to be about 15 confirmed Tory rebels - set against the government's working majority of just one.
The government had hoped the threat of an election - and of deselection and expulsion from the party - would be enough to bring rebels into line.
To call an election under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, Mr Johnson would need support from Labour as he requires the backing of two-thirds of the UK's 650 MPs to trigger a poll.
But BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said the momentum inside Labour was increasingly against giving Mr Johnson support for a snap election.
"Why? Because they don't trust him not to change the date of the election to after 31 October, after we have left the EU without a deal,"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49560557
This really quite a conundrum but matters should look a little clearer after tonights vote which is scheduled to commence at 9pm.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 09:48 AM
BREAKING NEWS: Tory MP Phillip Lee defects to Lib Dems, leaving UK government with no working majority in Commons.
Please enlighten me.
Was the several voting option to those who wanted to leave EU ?
I already know the answer...
So why are the politicians in the English Parliament, many of them, mocking the English voters - Those who voted - Leave EU.
Markus
Catfish
09-03-19, 11:14 AM
^ one point being they realized they have been lied to by the brexiters; another they probably try to prevent problems and hardship for their people.
For Boris Johnson it is all a game, he'll be well off whatever happens. I guess it never dawned on him what he did.
Jimbuna
09-03-19, 11:16 AM
It would appear the defector, Phillip Lee has not voted with the whip for some time, so the mathematics haven't changed.
I'm still of the opinion we will remain in the EU.
What's all the hoo-ha, so one Tory turns yellow big deal. Wake me up when another four or five walk so I can roll over and go back to sleep.
WE ARE NOT LEAVING THE EU LIVE WITH IT. :O:
We won the vote and lost the outcome, time to move on a prepare for the day the EU falls and on that day we will be ready.
Bojo lost the vote and is now crying like a big baby and general election here we come may be. I am off to bed good night.
em2nought
09-03-19, 04:18 PM
Won't it make things easier for you if we buy Ireland off of you? I think it would make an awesome theme park. :D
Bojo lost the vote and is now crying like a big baby and general election here we come may be. I am off to bed good night.
Good Morning STEED
You have slept for a very long time. A lot have happened since last time your read or watch the news.
To make it short-Great Britain is now under EU's Control.
Steptoe won this extra election which was held on Oct. 12. Even thou there was chaos in the English Parliament. They just couldn't agree on anything regarding Brexit and the deal or no deal.
Steptoe did what he thought was necessary - handing over the key to Downing Street 10 to the leader of EU.
Markus
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 05:09 AM
Won't it make things easier for you if we buy Ireland off of you? I think it would make an awesome theme park. :D
:haha:
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 05:25 AM
Round one is defeated by 27 votes, 21 of which were by Tory defectors who now find themselves banned from the party and unable to stand at the next general election under the Tory banner.
WHAT AN ABSOLUTE MESS.
The PM is to call for a general election if he is forced to request an extension to the 31 October deadline.
MPs will now vote on the Brexit delay bill. If it passes, the vote on whether to hold an election will follow.
But unless two thirds of MPs back the move for an election it cannot be called - which looks unlikely, given Labour's opposition.
What I find totally crazy about this situation is that Steptoe, the biggest EU sceptic in Parliament is now leading the fight against a Brexit which must surely make him the biggest hypocrite in modern British politics.
Good Morning STEED
You have slept for a very long time. A lot have happened since last time your read or watch the news.
To make it short-Great Britain is now under EU's Control.
Steptoe won this extra election which was held on Oct. 12. Even thou there was chaos in the English Parliament. They just couldn't agree on anything regarding Brexit and the deal or no deal.
Steptoe did what he thought was necessary - handing over the key to Downing Street 10 to the leader of EU.
Markus
Sod it, he could not get that right. I was hoping Lary the cat got the job. :Kaleun_Wink:
So Psycho Dominick you're foul mouth goon achieved nothing but you are safe as Bojo is thick as two short planks as he can not see you for what you are. The puppet master gets to be rude and vulgar and pull Bojo's strings for another day.
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 05:54 AM
In my Inbox not two minutes ago.
This is it.
Last night's victory was a vital step in preventing a disastrous No Deal Brexit. And once that is secured, we'll head towards a General Election.
With our country on the brink of crashing out of the EU, we're doing everything in our power to stop a No Deal Brexit. And we're ready for the fight of our lives to win a Labour government. While the Tories have a war chest built by their billionaire backers, our fight will be won by donations from hundreds of thousands of people just like you.
Jim, we're ready. Labour has spent all summer organising in communities, outlining radical policies, and mobilising an army of volunteers ready for the fight that is about to begin.
Together, we're building the biggest people-driven, people-funded campaign our country has ever seen. And it'll be possible because of you.
This government is in crisis. This country is in chaos. This can't go on. We need to win a Labour government.
Thanks for all your support,
Team Labour
DELETE
Skybird
09-04-19, 05:58 AM
Sod it, he could not get that right. I was hoping Lary the cat got the job. :Kaleun_Wink:
What if
1. No no-deal Brexit law gets passed today,
2. Johnson does not get 2/3 majority for elections,
and so Johnson simply refuses to carry out the law, refuses to ask in Brussel for delay of Brexit until I think January?
If he refuses to carry out the "law" - I wonder anyhow how a singular political tactical move could be turned into a law - what would be the sanctions and consequences?
The British parliament has turned itself into a big heap of dog poo over the past 18 months or so. Hilarious. Treacherous. Disgusting. A shame and a disgrace for British history.
The only good thing is that mercilessly the always inherent deficts and flaws of the system itself get unmasked, finally.
In Bejing and Moscow I am sure they cannot stop laughing. Its so good to see the Europeans dismantling themselves, and even messing up the dismantling process. Busy with themselves, they cannot form the will and the means to seriously get in Russia'S and China'S economic and geopolitical ways.
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 06:03 AM
^ Anyones guess Sky.
It will be a miracle if this mess ever gets sorted out.
Labour aren't confident of winning a general election in light of their low standing in recent polls but would like the chance anyway.
What they really fear is the possibility that Johnson will set a date for after October 31st which as Prime Minister he is entitled to do.
Jim you sure that was your inbox and not your spam box? :03:
PMQ's is a joke today just look at them trying to out do it other, London zoo 2.
One SKY political reporter thinks Bojo will withdraw Article 50.
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 06:41 AM
Nope, definitely my Inbox because being an ex party member I havn't unsubscribed.
I enjoy the entertainment value :03:
Skybird
09-04-19, 06:45 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49568760
Legal defeat in first round for anti-prorogation activists.
Jimbuna
09-04-19, 06:48 AM
That's just the beginning, "The group of MPs and peers behind the legal challenge, who are headed by SNP MP Joanna Cherry and Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson, have said they will appeal against the ruling.
Their legal team will return to the court on Wednesday afternoon to ask judges at the Inner House to hear the appeal, potentially on Thursday."
I still say what I have written a few times earlier in this thread.
The paragraphs about a members exit from its EU - membership
Must be rewritten
A country leave on one of following two days
30th of June
or
31th of December
First after a country have left, the country and EU can discuss, further deals and agreement.
Markus
skidman
09-04-19, 03:53 PM
To make it short-Great Britain is now under EU's Control.
Markus
Sorry, but this is malodorous BS. The EU has remained very very quiet in the last days. Actually the continent is rolling the eyes in view of the unworthy farce that takes place in the motherland of democracy.
Tomorrow the Peers will filibuster through 92 modification applications to the no-no-deal-law (and there is no need for Steed, Skybird and You to get upset here: Nobody voted for them, they got their positions because of their DNA. What an advanced procedure!).
Poor BoJo: There is a German saying that fits perfectly: He jumped as a tiger and landed as a bedside carpet.
skidman
09-04-19, 04:14 PM
Just a request: Could one of the honourable members please suggest legislation to have Rees-Mogg hanged, drawn and quartered. Thank You!
Fantastic no general election woohoo they got something right in the middle of this pig swill mess.
Carry on Commons the new comedy show taking the world by storm. :har: :har:
Skybird
09-04-19, 05:45 PM
This insidious hypocrisy on display makes me puke. The past two days have taught a very, very lot about the essence and nature of politics. These lectures make puking in disgust all day long the answer to the old question of what the meaning of life is.
Boris shall, what I understand make a deal with EU, which the English parliament can agree on.
Now I wonder, as I do a lot.
EU will not change their part of this deal
The Parliament seems to be in a situation where they can't agree on anything regarding the Brexit.
So what type of deal is it the Parliament really want ?
It can't be this backstop, because even here they seems to disagree
Markus
Skybird
09-05-19, 03:45 AM
Maybe you have not understood it. Parliament does not want a Brexit at all. They only do not want to get called out when preventing it. They always wanted to steal the referendum and hollow out the meaning of Brexit - without getting held responsible for having done that. They think the parliament is more relevant than the people, and they never accepted the referendum's outcome.
Johnson cannot make a new deal with the EU. Parliament has just cut the legs under the table, as somebody put it, he is weaponless and has no pressure tools left. That was what the idea behind the past days moves were. It was about paralysing Johnson and forcing to crawl on knees to Brussel , so that he makes a joke of himself, because kneeling or not, he would not get anythign anyway, completing his own defeat by that display. They want him to be as hilarious as May acted, knowing that that way he would be too weak to reach anything.
Parliament does not want a Brexit woirth the meaning of the word "exit". It never wanted that
EU does not want a Brexit either. For them the Backstop-Brexit is the king's road to get a meaningless alibi of a pseudo-Brexit that is no Brexit but leaves the UK bound to the eU, prevents it from doing its own trade deals, and surrenders it to the customs union, the regime of the eU court, and certain other rules of the eU, it would be as if Brexit leads UK just to give up rights, while maintaining almost all its duties - and for this they should even pay a divorce bill - while additionally paying yearly fees like a member. Backstop is all the eU ever wanted: the possibility to keep the UK gagged and bound forever, without time limitation. Let the plebs in the streets think they exited from the EU - fact would be it had not, and that is what counts!
Parliament is on side of the EU. They always were by majority, they always wanted to reject or ignore or weasel around the referendum.
All sides want things that are mutually exclusive. Johnson has understood that. Thats why he tried so bitterly to break parliament. The little Matrxist and terrorist-friend on the other side of the chamber wants to weasel himself into No.10. thats why he is so underhandedly and hypocritically sneaking around on steptoes and plays the innocent.
They have to fight this out and one side has to die. There can be no compromise, and there must be no prisoners taken. Another thing that Johnson has understood, thats why he mowed down the rebels without hesitation. Scenarios where comprises are not posssble without compromising the whole cause, are possible to exist, and this is such a one.
Johnson probably calculated form beginning on to lose the four votes the past two days, he is not totally stupid. He wants elections with the wind of pro Brexit voters in his sail, who moved to Farrage and now shall return to Tories in force, giving them a strong victory and dominance in parliament. What he then wants, is unclear to me.Either he wants to get around this new no-no-deal Brexit law, or he hopes such a result would give him stronger authority against Brussel, which i doubt Brussel would be impressed by. Mind you, I think, Johnson just populistically posed as a Brexiteer before the referendum, and then was crushed like all others by that it was successful. He does want Brexit as much as most of the parliament: not at all. However, he also wants to save his face.
The little marxist however will do whatever harm and sneaking is necessary to leave Johnson no space to move at ANY direction, and will continue to play the innocent.This carricature makes me furious just by the body language of his already. Every move, every gesture, every posture, every mimic expression has "fake" written all over it. Slimey creepers like this make me furious.
Bojo made a massive mistake sacking those 21 MP's this has shocked the moderate voter and lets face facts the moderate voter is the lion share of voters.
It already coming to light in some of those constituencies of those 21 are backing them so they cou.d be Inp Con candidates splitting the vote even more if there is a general election.
Boris is a fool listening to psycho Dominick who cares not about anything apart from himself.
Anyone saw that tweet of Mogg relaxing on the benches with that bloke stroking him? Bloody funny..:haha:
Jimbuna
09-05-19, 05:05 AM
Boris shall, what I understand make a deal with EU, which the English parliament can agree on.
Now I wonder, as I do a lot.
EU will not change their part of this deal
The Parliament seems to be in a situation where they can't agree on anything regarding the Brexit.
So what type of deal is it the Parliament really want ?
It can't be this backstop, because even here they seems to disagree
Markus
The EU probably don't feel the need to make any further deal Markus, they already have one deal/surrender document signed by May.
That is sufficient for them.
Jimbuna
09-05-19, 05:18 AM
Maybe you have not understood it. Parliament does not want a Brexit at all. They only do not want to get called out when preventing it. They always wanted to steal the referendum and hollow out the meaning of Brexit - without getting held responsible for having done that. They think the parliament is more relevant than the people, and they never accepted the referendum's outcome.
Johnson cannot make a new deal with the EU. Parliament has just cut the legs under the table, as somebody put it, he is weaponless and has no pressure tools left. That was what the idea behind the past days moves were. It was about paralysing Johnson and forcing to crawl on knees to Brussel , so that he makes a joke of himself, because kneeling or not, he would not get anythign anyway, completing his own defeat by that display. They want him to be as hilarious as May acted, knowing that that way he would be too weak to reach anything.
Parliament does not want a Brexit woirth the meaning of the word "exit". It never wanted that
EU does not want a Brexit either. For them the Backstop-Brexit is the king's road to get a meaningless alibi of a pseudo-Brexit that is no Brexit but leaves the UK bound to the eU, prevents it from doing its own trade deals, and surrenders it to the customs union, the regime of the eU court, and certain other rules of the eU, it would be as if Brexit leads UK just to give up rights, while maintaining almost all its duties - and for this they should even pay a divorce bill - while additionally paying yearly fees like a member. Backstop is all the eU ever wanted: the possibility to keep the UK gagged and bound forever, without time limitation. Let the plebs in the streets think they exited from the EU - fact would be it had not, and that is what counts!
Parliament is on side of the EU. They always were by majority, they always wanted to reject or ignore or weasel around the referendum.
All sides want things that are mutually exclusive. Johnson has understood that. Thats why he tried so bitterly to break parliament. The little Matrxist and terrorist-friend on the other side of the chamber wants to weasel himself into No.10. thats why he is so underhandedly and hypocritically sneaking around on steptoes and plays the innocent.
They have to fight this out and one side has to die. There can be no compromise, and there must be no prisoners taken. Another thing that Johnson has understood, thats why he mowed down the rebels without hesitation. Scenarios where comprises are not posssble without compromising the whole cause, are possible to exist, and this is such a one.
Johnson probably calculated form beginning on to lose the four votes the past two days, he is not totally stupid. He wants elections with the wind of pro Brexit voters in his sail, who moved to Farrage and now shall return to Tories in force, giving them a strong victory and dominance in parliament. What he then wants, is unclear to me.Either he wants to get around this new no-no-deal Brexit law, or he hopes such a result would give him stronger authority against Brussel, which i doubt Brussel would be impressed by. Mind you, I think, Johnson just populistically posed as a Brexiteer before the referendum, and then was crushed like all others by that it was successful. He does want Brexit as much as most of the parliament: not at all. However, he also wants to save his face.
The little marxist however will do whatever harm and sneaking is necessary to leave Johnson no space to move at ANY direction, and will continue to play the innocent.This carricature makes me furious just by the body language of his already. Every move, every gesture, every posture, every mimic expression has "fake" written all over it. Slimey creepers like this make me furious.
You have saved me writing a wall of text by submitting the above and for that I am grateful.
Next move?
Steptoe will be enjoying his victory but I suspect it will be short lived.
Now that all the voting has taken place, the electorate now have a clear picture of who voted for what and in particular the 21 Tory traitors (my choice of words).
A no deal Brexit has been achieved so Steptoe will agree to a general election in an attempt to quench his lust for power and Boris will presumably be victorious gaining a sizeable majority and aided in a further strengthening of numbers by the addition of a handful of Brexit Party MP's.
The next phase will be the passing of new laws to aid the completion of Article 50 and Brexit will eventually be achieved.
The only way the above can be prevented by the opposition parties would be to vote to revoke Article 50 whilst they are in the ascendancy but I doubt that will happen because it is too great a gamble and could well bring about political suicide.
Only time will tell.
Jimbuna
09-05-19, 05:35 AM
BREAKING NEWS: Jo Johnson, brother of UK PM, quits as Tory MP and minister saying he is "torn between family and national interest"
ikalugin
09-05-19, 06:13 AM
Sorry, but this is malodorous BS. The EU has remained very very quiet in the last days. Actually the continent is rolling the eyes in view of the unworthy farce that takes place in the motherland of democracy.
Tomorrow the Peers will filibuster through 92 modification applications to the no-no-deal-law (and there is no need for Steed, Skybird and You to get upset here: Nobody voted for them, they got their positions because of their DNA. What an advanced procedure!).
Poor BoJo: There is a German saying that fits perfectly: He jumped as a tiger and landed as a bedside carpet.
How many Lords are herediatery? 92 out of 775?
Jimbuna
09-05-19, 06:36 AM
How many Lords are herediatery? 92 out of 775?
Given out in the main as presents of entitlement by PM's as a kind of 'thank you'.
Skybird
09-05-19, 08:13 AM
You have saved me writing a wall of text by submitting the above and for that I am grateful.
This wall is mine,
I let you in,,
I let you navigate and command,
just as long as you now
this wall is mine.
- Dido -
:D
Jimbuna
09-05-19, 08:34 AM
In my Inbox less than an hour ago.
Yesterday Boris Johnson suffered a major defeat in the Commons. And just now, we won another huge victory in legislating to prevent a disastrous No Deal Brexit.
With no mandate, no morals and now no majority, Boris Johnson is on the ropes. And we're ready for the fight of a generation to stop No Deal then push for a General Election to win a Labour government and put Jeremy Corbyn into Number 10.
Jim, are you with us?
A decade of austerity. Our public services dismantled piece by piece and sold off to big corporations and hedge funds. Attacks on our NHS, schools and wages. Our country forced into insufferable inequality. And now the threat of a disastrous No Deal Brexit.
The future of our country will be decided at the next General Election. Will you join hundreds of thousands of Labour members to fight back?
With the stakes so high, it's time to take action. Join us in this historic moment, and seize the chance to turn the tables on this government and become part of our fight to rebuild Britain.
In solidarity,
Team Labour
NO THANKS
Thanks for the input.
I hav the same feeling, when it comes to the Parliament-they aren't really interested in an exit-therefore it doesn't matter which kind of deal B.J. may come up with, the Parliament will vote against it.
Markus
Wow the ship is sinking now Jo Johnson quits his roll in government and MP.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49594793
Save the pooch next before the boat sinks.
Jim are you with us, no jim's in the hope and anchor.
The front page of the English edition of The Sun: LINK (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDprGsRXYAEzV3s?format=jpg&name=medium).
The front page of the Scottish edition of The Sun: LINK (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDpxk0YWwAUktmz.jpg:large).
I'm afraid to say the even the UK wide newspapers are different between the two largest constituents of the UK.
If there is a General Election polling indicates that the SNP will be back to 50+ MPs. :hmmm:
Mike.
Boris is a fool listening to psycho Dominick who cares not about anything apart from himself.
I hear this psycho went up to the nameless one drunk! He swears at everyone flouts his position and still Dumbo keeps him on!
If there is a General Election polling indicates that the SNP will be back to 50+ MPs. :hmmm:
Mike.
The SNP could break from the alliance as they smell victory queen is back in town. They clearly want the general election.
Jimbuna
09-06-19, 04:42 AM
Jim are you with us, no jim's in the hope and anchor.
Bereft of hope which is sinking as fast as an anchor.
Jimbuna
09-06-19, 04:46 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49568760
Legal defeat in first round for anti-prorogation activists.
That's just the beginning, "The group of MPs and peers behind the legal challenge, who are headed by SNP MP Joanna Cherry and Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson, have said they will appeal against the ruling.
Their legal team will return to the court on Wednesday afternoon to ask judges at the Inner House to hear the appeal, potentially on Thursday."
The appeal has also failed and the case brought before the High Court suffered the same but permission has been granted for an appeal.
A legal challenge over Prime Minister Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament has been rejected, High Court judges have ruled.
The case was brought by businesswoman Gina Miller, who argued the move was "an unlawful abuse of power".
Rejecting Ms Miller's case, Lord Justice Burnett said she could immediately appeal because of the important points of law at stake.
The appeal is expected to be heard at the Supreme Court on 17 September.
A similar legal challenge heard at Edinburgh's Court of Session on Wednesday also failed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584
Skybird
09-06-19, 05:17 AM
After the Scottish court, the High Court in London now also has refused to play the political ballgame of the no-no-deal faction.
Jimbuna
09-06-19, 05:30 AM
It is not over yet though, the High Court have given permission for an appeal.
Jimbuna
09-06-19, 06:14 AM
Labour and other UK opposition parties agree not to back PM’s demand for general election before October EU summit.
Skybird
09-06-19, 06:25 AM
What is the legal situation right now? Its my understanding that since quite some time the legal situation is such that if no deal gets signed until Octobre 31st, automatically a Brexit gets triggered. The no-no-deal law of two days ago however must collide with this in any way (I admit I have no read anywhere what it really says in detail). So what is the legal situation if Johnson simply refuses to obey the law and choses not to go to Brussels and asking for another delay? How could he be held responisble for this what obviously formally would be a law violation then - or is it not? And would the consequence sof such behaviour - Brexit activated, that is - be legally sustainable?
And since nothing is to be expected to happen until end of January, wouldn't they then demand another delay being asked for? And endlessly on and on and on this way?
Its all a break-or-get-broken situation. Compromise impossible.
If Johnson simply refuses to do anything, even stops governing" in any way. No asking in brussel. No complaince with the little marxist's demands. No pushing of elections. Instead: Nothing. Just sitti g in No 10, doing nothing, letting days pass. What then, from MP's POV...?
ikalugin
09-06-19, 06:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fLO7MpHO2w
You may be interested in this discussion by UKIP dude for pro-BREXIT point of view.
Jimbuna
09-06-19, 08:03 AM
What is the legal situation right now? Its my understanding that since quite some time the legal situation is such that if no deal gets signed until Octobre 31st, automatically a Brexit gets triggered. The no-no-deal law of two days ago however must collide with this in any way (I admit I have no read anywhere what it really says in detail). So what is the legal situation if Johnson simply refuses to obey the law and choses not to go to Brussels and asking for another delay? How could he be held responisble for this what obviously formally would be a law violation then - or is it not? And would the consequence sof such behaviour - Brexit activated, that is - be legally sustainable?
And since nothing is to be expected to happen until end of January, wouldn't they then demand another delay being asked for? And endlessly on and on and on this way?
Its all a break-or-get-broken situation. Compromise impossible.
If Johnson simply refuses to do anything, even stops governing" in any way. No asking in brussel. No complaince with the little marxist's demands. No pushing of elections. Instead: Nothing. Just sitti g in No 10, doing nothing, letting days pass. What then, from MP's POV...?
I'm not sure anyone really knows but if it is humanly possible to get the UK out Boris is the only one willing to do it.
You may be interested in this discussion by UKIP dude for pro-BREXIT point of view.
UKIP is a dead duck their day is long over and will have no effect on the possible general election.
Bojo will have another crack at it on Monday but his odds are worst than a exploding gas pipe. Shutting down Parliament has backfired big time on him, serve him right taking advice from a psychopath.
Skybird
09-06-19, 04:14 PM
I'm not sure anyone really knows but if it is humanly possible to get the UK out Boris is the only one willing to do it.
Is he? I am not as convinced as you seem to be. He was overrolled by the passing referendum almost three years ago, he did not really wanted it to be successful, he wanted only to gain profile by posing as a Brexiteer and a critic of remainers.
And certainly he knows how badly prepared Britian now is after the lots of wasted time. He also certainly knows that by the letters and laws and paragraphs he has ZERO chance now - at least I see none - to get elections before having gone to Brussels.
He also most certainly knew in advance that he would loose on Tuesaday and Wednesday. He must have seen all that coming.
Finally, he is a career politician, and a very power-craving one. And a gambler he is anyway.
I think the very last sentence in the very last paragraphs, the line at the very end of it all, indicates what is that is to be looked out for.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49612757
The new law tries to avoid a no-deal Brexit on 31 October, but it can't rule out a no-deal Brexit in the future.
There are only two ways to do that: pass and implement a withdrawal deal or cancel Brexit altogether.
May wanted to reach a pseudo-Brexit so that the political class would not get lynched by the plebs when not delivering Brexit by meaning and content - she wanted the parliament to steal the Brexit referendum and getting away with it by actinbg as if Brexit had been dleivered. Johnson on the other hand I think also plans to not deliver Brexit now - but he is satisfied with just himself not being lynched, instead winning the next elections after that and being the old new PM again. And the blame beeing loaded all on Labour.
I will be happy if the future events proves me to be wrong and Brexit comes, but I doubt it. I fear I will be right. Johnson'S goals now are no real Brexit, Labour being blamed by the voter, winning the elections, and himself staying as PM.
Catfish
09-06-19, 04:35 PM
T. Brex has no plan, and he is still lying as three years ago. But.. he adopted a dog.
Skybird
09-06-19, 04:43 PM
Oh, a plan he has, I am certain. The question is whether it works as intended.
I said it before and I will say it again Bojo is not PM material he is a media hyped junkie. Just look at that joke with him banging on and poor police cadets/officers dropping, they were used and now the police chief feels that.
Bojo likes playing up to the camera even if he looks like a twit, and taking advice from psycho dominic is a big mistake.
Bojo has a third option where he calls a vote of no confidence in his government and gets his MP's to abstain but I can not see that one.
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 05:52 AM
I will be happy if the future events proves me to be wrong and Brexit comes, but I doubt it. I fear I will be right. Johnson'S goals now are no real Brexit, Labour being blamed by the voter, winning the elections, and himself staying as PM.
Boris is the only one making the right noises that is for sure but one can only hope the noises he makes are truthful.
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 05:55 AM
But.. he adopted a dog.
The person responsible in my opinion is Theresa May. All this could and should have been prevented by negotiating something better than what can only be described as a 'surrender document'.
After all wasn't it she who said "No deal is better than a bad deal".
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 05:57 AM
Bojo has a third option where he calls a vote of no confidence in his government and gets his MP's to abstain but I can not see that one.
Always expect the unexpected when Boris is about.
Skybird
09-07-19, 06:37 AM
Johnson triggering a vote of confidence still leaves him at the mercy of the opposition to get properly kicked. Which they will refuse to do. So it is not an option in the meaning of that he has control over it and can enforce it.
The onyl thing he can enforce is ignroing the non-no-deal-law, and the legal actions this necessarily would cause. In all other regards he now is totally and competely helpless and incapable of anything, it seems to me.
Parliament never wanted the Brexit referendum. Parliament never wanted to obey the referendum's outcome. And it seems it will get its will as long as the legal action against Johnson if he ignores the law is without consequences.
It all will cost more time, but I started to think these days that the real action is over and the rest is just show (if it ever was anything more thna just show anyway). Both Corbyn and Johnson now already are focussed on securing No 10 for themselves in the next year. Brexit is most likely already dead.
Lame duck sighted in Londown.
The trade deal with the uS, likely is another gambit only. The Donald will abuse the British dependency to get a deal quickly by dictating terms and conditions to them., Special relationship is all nice and well, but in the end its money that talks, and the US abused Britain already in 2003 and told sweet promises about economic revenues that never materialised.
The British stand was torpedoes by treason and traiotrs from beginning on, first Johnson'S campaign lies, then May's treason. Britain started way to late to play the game the hard way and started to realise too late that it needed to prepare for a time of hardship after a Brexit, and there is still a lack of awareness that Brexit with a really sovereignty-implementing "exit" in it can only be had by a no-deal leave from beginning on. Three profound mistakes, each of them in itself already decisive enough to decide the match, but in combination: being guaranteed irresistably.
I call like summin thigns up already and giving a final conclusion. But I indeed think Brexit is over. They will waste more time to lament and to accuse and to point fingers, but I see nothing that Johnson can do by his own options anymore to enforce it.
I fear after the US the UK now will become the second heavyweight where the civil society gets deeply split and increasingly polarised, and conflicts widening gaps and trenches.
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 06:46 AM
MPs, including Tories expelled from the party, are preparing legal action in case the PM refuses to seek a delay to Brexit.
A bill requiring Boris Johnson to ask for an extension to the UK's departure date to avoid a no-deal Brexit on 31 October is set to gain royal assent.
But the PM has said he would "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask for a delay.
Now MPs have lined up a legal team and are willing to go to court to enforce the legislation, if necessary.
The cross-party bill - which requires the prime minister to extend the exit deadline until January unless Parliament agrees a deal with the EU by 19 October - was passed on Friday.
Although the government has said it will abide by the law, Mr Johnson described it as obliging him "in theory" to write to Brussels asking for a "pointless delay". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49618242
I'm wondering if and when somebody will grow a pair and suggest revoking Article 50 :hmmm:
Skybird
09-07-19, 09:15 AM
^No, because this somebody then would be accused of having ignored and stolen the referendum. What they are trying since three years - all of them - is to weasel around Brexit by staging just a meaningless fake-Brexit that is no real exit, so that they could get away with having betrayed the Brexit referendum majority by formally claiming that "Brexit got delivered".
The UK is going down hill fast, possible recession on the way and this Brexit mess goes on. I for one want this to end now today and if it means staying put in the EU I can live with that. I'm more interested in the domestic front than this on going BS. This BS has given those pigs at Westminster the excuse they have been looking for to get out of the real domestic work and fart around with this BS yes BS.
Cameron should never ever called the referendum knowing what those pigs would get up to.
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 09:54 AM
MPs, including Tories expelled from the party, are preparing legal action in case the PM refuses to seek a delay to Brexit.
A bill requiring Boris Johnson to ask for an extension to the UK's departure date to avoid a no-deal Brexit on 31 October is set to gain royal assent.
But the PM has said he would "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask for a delay.
Legal experts have warned the prime minister could go to prison if he refuses to comply with the new law. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49618242
Prison eh? :hmmm:
Prison eh? :hmmm:
Psycho Dominic would say....BLEEP them and BLEEP the BLEEPING law. :03:
Jimbuna
09-07-19, 10:11 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvyvhk9q/69262376-10156530324382966-7751863778219655168-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.6251570.1567595999!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1024/image.jpg
https://www.albawaba.com/sites/default/files/im_new/syndicationeditor/UK/18048962-7425965-image-m-10_1567581905310.jpg
Skybird
09-07-19, 10:44 AM
I for one want this to end now today and if it means staying put in the EU I can live with that.
This frustration reaction always has been a strong bet placed by the EU. And probably a bet by many remainers as well. Let the people ask themselves for getting relief from the brexit they once asked for. Problem solved!
Cameron should never ever called the referendum knowing what those pigs would get up to.
Cameron gambled. Like everyone else, including Johnson, he did not believe it would pass. They all are from the same clique.
Problem is these certain, reality-disconnected, distanced-from-ordinary-life self-proclaimed elites always gamble, and they gamble with other people's assets and money, have other people facing the risks.
And the hole gets bigger for Bojo.....
AMBER RUDD STEPS DOWN FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND WHIP
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623737
You just can not make this up...:haha:
Skybird
09-07-19, 04:42 PM
Her explanation given is revealing, because it illustrates the big problem there is: she recognises the need to make the EU believe that the UK is preparing for hard Brexit in all seriousness - but she also implies that this is only posing and not meant to be a real option, because now that she thinks Johnson means it serious, she leaves due to right this reason.
Butter-soft "determination" while playing the big game against - not "with", I say: "against" - Brussels.
The will is lacking. The spirit. The determination. It just is not there. Its all a babble game when they talk about that they want to bring about an exiting.
Bojo's next move go straight to prison boost his ratings and a general election victory is in the bag, we brits always back the under dog. :D :03:
It's not just the tories having a bad week, change uk looses three of its members to the libdems.
https://news.sky.com/story/angela-smith-becomes-third-mp-in-a-week-to-join-liberal-democrats-11804756
Jimbuna
09-08-19, 06:10 AM
Her explanation given is revealing, because it illustrates the big problem there is: she recognises the need to make the EU believe that the UK is preparing for hard Brexit in all seriousness - but she also implies that this is only posing and not meant to be a real option, because now that she thinks Johnson means it serious, she leaves due to right this reason.
Butter-soft "determination" while playing the big game against - not "with", I say: "against" - Brussels.
The will is lacking. The spirit. The determination. It just is not there. Its all a babble game when they talk about that they want to bring about an exiting.
Tis certainly beginning to look that way :yep:
Jimbuna
09-08-19, 06:14 AM
The Conservative Party plans to stand a candidate against Speaker John Bercow for his role in allowing MPs to take control of the Commons agenda.
Business secretary Andrea Leadsom accused the Speaker in the Mail on Sunday of "flagrant abuse" of process.
Breaching convention, the party plans to oppose Mr Bercow in his Buckingham constituency at the next election.
Formerly a Tory, Mr Bercow gave up his party affiliation when he took on the impartial role.
As the highest authority in the House of Commons, the Speaker chairs MPs' debates.
In order to be impartial, the Speaker resigns from their party, and - while they still stand in general elections - they are usually unopposed by the main parties, and they do not campaign on political issues.
But Ms Leadsom - who has clashed with Mr Bercow in the past - said the Tories would ignore this convention and stand against him at the next election.
She said the role of the Speaker was to be "a politically impartial, independent umpire of proceedings" and to "protect the constitution and oversee the behaviour of the House".
"But last week, the current Speaker failed us," she said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49624334
Whilst I agree with the plan I can't help but wonder if this is just a desperation move.
^Total and utter waste of time, for crying out loud this government is falling apart the country is in a mess and civil unrest is one step nearer to going over the edge. Its like watching the events in the Bunker again but this is not 1945 and not Germany it's 2019 Uk.
Jimbuna
09-08-19, 06:48 AM
Unprecedented times old chap.
Unprecedented times old chap.
One thing is for sure the last six days has been more active than all of May's time in office. :03:
Jimbuna
09-08-19, 07:06 AM
Q: What do politicians and nappies have in common?
A: Both should be changed regularly, and both for the same reason.
Catfish
09-09-19, 03:24 AM
What i find hilarious is that Johnson has been a journalist, a correspondent in the EU some time ago.
During this time he made up a lot of things about the EU and its goals as well as plain lying, and then have this bs printed.
And now he takes his own gush and quotes it to "prove" the EU is soo baad:rotfl2::har:
Some friend of him recently said that he clearly always was a liar, and the only thing you can trust him about is his name.
I am not even sure of this anymore :03:
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 04:51 AM
"There are two tasks we simply have to do - we must restore Stormont and we must come out [of the EU] on 31 October, or else permanent damage will be done in the UK to trust in our democratic system,"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49608822
Now this made me laugh. I wasn't aware there was any trust still remaining :hmmm:
Place your bets and clean up and make fortune on Bojo winning the vote on the general election today before the shut down. :03:
Catfish is down for 100 euros..:) :03:
As for this general election there is conflicting info about the result, the polls suggest bojo will win while Amber Rudd's formed advisor has said No.10 carried out research suggesting bojo will not win control. :hmmm::hmmm:
Q: What do politicians and nappies have in common?
A: Both should be changed regularly, and both for the same reason.
Just saw it jim.....:har: :har: :up:
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 06:48 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/zGkb7hM9/69846903-10157408108864098-2677715738856259584-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 06:52 AM
The five-week suspension of Parliament will begin later, after MPs are expected to again reject government calls for a snap election.
Downing Street confirmed that the expected prorogation - or suspension - of Parliament until 14 October will begin at the end of Monday's sitting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49630094
The best chance of a Brexit for Boris may well be if Macron uses his veto but I doubt that will happen.
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 10:21 AM
John Bercow says he will stand down as Commons Speaker at the next election or on 31 October, whichever comes first.
Not surprising really when you consider that the Tories were planning to put up a candidate against him at the next general election whenever that takes place.
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 10:31 AM
The prime minister was in Dublin for his first meeting with Irish PM Leo Varadkar since he entered Number 10 and after Boris spoke publicly to the press, Leo responded by saying "We'll be the Athena to your Hercules" -- this is the most Irish way to insult someone: savagely, to their face, without them even realizing it.
(Athena saved Hercules by knocking him out and restoring order after he killed his family).
Leo should be very careful about the way he uses such rhetoric in public because any reciprocol use of similar terminology could be quite embarrassing to him and I've little doubt Boris would hesitate should the opportunity arise.
Catfish
09-09-19, 01:47 PM
British Airways pilots strike
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-iag-british-airways-strike/british-airways-pilots-strike-grounds-1700-flights-in-latest-blow-to-airline-idUKKCN1VT0V7
One should think they had other problems right now (?)
Jimbuna
09-09-19, 01:54 PM
MPs vote to force government to release messages over parliament suspension and no-deal Brexit papers.
This folks is what happens when you don't command a majority.
There should be a day of wholescale reckoning one way or the other when a general election eventually takes place.
Oh heck they parliament was closed down just before the vote forcing bojo to declare he wears women's silk knickers! :03:
So the five week holiday starts and the mess goes on....
First out the blocks.....
Labour's Harriet Harman to run for Commons Speaker
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49646257
Skybird
09-10-19, 05:02 AM
They better pick Chuck Norris as speaker to handle the madhouse.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 05:55 AM
They better pick Chuck Norris as speaker to handle the madhouse.
:haha:
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 05:57 AM
First out the blocks.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49646257
I can think of many worse choices.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 05:59 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49645338
Looking at some of the shenanigans going on here leads me to question why I even bother voting :nope:
The prime minister was in Dublin for his first meeting with Irish PM Leo Varadkar since he entered Number 10 and after Boris spoke publicly to the press, Leo responded by saying "We'll be the Athena to your Hercules" -- this is the most Irish way to insult someone: savagely, to their face, without them even realizing it.
(Athena saved Hercules by knocking him out and restoring order after he killed his family).
Leo should be very careful about the way he uses such rhetoric in public because any reciprocol use of similar terminology could be quite embarrassing to him and I've little doubt Boris would hesitate should the opportunity arise.
I detect a bit of pique, there, Jim.:03:
The Irish are allowed to have their own national interests. Note also that the new EU Commisioner for Trade is an Irishman.
What we're probably seeing is Varadker and co taking the opportunity to push for Irish re-unification (the costs of which would put Ireland back into net-receiver status rather than their current modest net-contributer one) as well as strengthening their position within the EU.
Aaaannnnd, lets be honest, how many English people really want to hold onto Northern Ireland? How many give a fig about Scotland or Wales these days either?
Mike.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 08:26 AM
I detect a bit of pique, there, Jim.:03:
The Irish are allowed to have their own national interests. Note also that the new EU Commisioner for Trade is an Irishman.
What we're probably seeing is Varadker and co taking the opportunity to push for Irish re-unification (the costs of which would put Ireland back into net-receiver status rather than their current modest net-contributer one) as well as strengthening their position within the EU.
Aaaannnnd, lets be honest, how many English people really want to hold onto Northern Ireland? How many give a fig about Scotland or Wales these days either?
Mike.
TBH Mike I'm a little tired of the repeated comments as to the current state of the Union by the press in recent times and whilst holding the belief that the Union is strongest with all four countries in it, I'm fast forming the opinion that anyone or more of the four deciding they would be better off leaving then so be it.
TBH Mike I'm a little tired of the repeated comments as to the current state of the Union by the press in recent times and whilst holding the belief that the Union is strongest with all four countries in it, I'm fast forming the opinion that anyone or more of the four deciding they would be better off leaving then so be it.
Agreed.
Mike.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 08:41 AM
I forgot to mention the one caveat....they must also take Corbyn a one of their naturalised citizens :03:
Not a chance - London can keep him!:yeah:
And no, we don't want George Galloway back, either!:doh: Strap him to an ICBM and fire him at the Middle East - he might actually be useful out there!
Mike.:03:
Failing Boris, I'm praying the EU has the sense to just kick us out on the 31st. (they must be fed up with it too)
This has gone on long enough.
Why do these opposition clowns fight to keep us in when the vote was clearly leave? i have no respect for them.
And those more sensible that just wanted a deal, its far too late for that now.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 09:20 AM
Failing Boris, I'm praying the EU has the sense to just kick us out on the 31st. (they must be fed up with it too)
This has gone on long enough.
Why do these clowns fight to keep us in when the vote was clearly leave, i have no respect for them.
And those more sensible that just wanted a deal, its far too late for that now.
Not sure if these should go in the movie thread comedy section.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ps88fzLMQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z45SY5_eY4
I could have misunderstood it all.
I get the feeling the majority of the members of the English parliament are coward, when they refuse to give the English people a chance to tell them what they want-An exit without a deal-(giving B.J. and his party a majority in the Parliament)
Or
Giving Labour a Majority = Want a deal with EU before Exit.
This is my thoughts I do not have the right to point fingers or complain. I'm not an English citizens.
Markus
Catfish
09-10-19, 01:48 PM
^ Sorry Marcus, but i have seldom read so much nonsense.
Bercow: "This is not a standard prorogation."
"BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said "the uproar in Parliament wasn't just Pantomime politics - there is genuine fury and incredulity that at such a crucial moment for the nation, the place is being shut down.""
I just wonder how much people notice, and know who is responsible for it. :nope:
Catfish
09-10-19, 01:53 PM
Failing Boris, I'm praying the EU has the sense to just kick us out on the 31st. (they must be fed up with it too)
This has gone on long enough. […]
Well, since this Boris has done nothing regarding proposals or negotiations but claiming to do it (so still lying all the time), I meanwhile agree to a hundred percent, deal or no deal. Out.
And now you can take Boris and Farage and Rees-Mogg and build a perfect new England, good luck.
Skybird
09-10-19, 02:15 PM
Parliament is anything but the innocent victim here. For over two years they have made monkeys of themselves. They derailed things as much from their side, as Johnson and Cameron did in the beginning and May did over the main going. They were determined to bypass the referendum, which by the very rules the English gave themselves was meant to be a binding one - and so many of these monkeys were determined not to obey to that and delivering a meaningful Brexit.
None of them all is innocent here. Not Johnson. Not May. And certainly not parliament. They ended uo where they deserve to be,a d and they worked very hard to end up right there and nowhere else.
No innocent victims here. They suffer their own self-made Karma.
If I were the English people, I would hang each and everyone of these monkey into the trees until the crows are done with them.
Needless to say, even if Johnson succeeds and get a meaningful Brexit through (and as I said, I doubt that he realyl wants that), the years to come now will be so much harder for the UK to bear than would have been needed if they would have spend those two years much more wisely and would have fought the EU more determined. With May signing a deal that was clear would not be ratified and that gave any weapon the EU could have dreamed of to Brussel for keeping the English in forever, the worst of possible outcomes was secured. The situation now and the parliament madhouse beign sent into cabin arrest, is just a symptim and logical consequence.
May should be charged for high treason. Johnson lied three years ago, and people fell for what he said, that is the guilt of the people. But May maximised dmaages to the UK and made it much,much worse with her treason. and that is what she should eb charged for: High Treason, conspiracy with a foreign state/entity against the UK, and acting against vital key interests of the UK. More clearly the original old meaning of "High Treason" cannot be defined.
I expected so very much different things from the British politicians three years ago. How very wrong I was!
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 02:40 PM
^ Sorry Marcus, but i have seldom read so much nonsense.
Bercow: "This is not a standard prorogation."
"BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said "the uproar in Parliament wasn't just Pantomime politics - there is genuine fury and incredulity that at such a crucial moment for the nation, the place is being shut down.""
I just wonder how much people notice, and know who is responsible for it. :nope:
Well, since this Boris has done nothing regarding proposals or negotiations but claiming to do it (so still lying all the time), I meanwhile agree to a hundred percent, deal or no deal. Out.
And now you can take Boris and Farage and Rees-Mogg and build a perfect new England, good luck.
Parliament voted on and agreed to Article 50 but never thought the referendum result would turn out as it has.
The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of parliament.
Jimbuna
09-10-19, 02:41 PM
Parliament is anything but the innocent victim here. For over two years they have made monkeys of themselves. They derailed things as much from their side, as Johnson and Cameron did in the beginning and May did over the main going. They were determined to bypass the referendum, which by the very rules the English gave themselves was meant to be a binding one - and so many of these monkeys were determined not to obey to that and delivering a meaningful Brexit.
None of them all is innocent here. Not Johnson. Not May. And certainly not parliament. They ended uo where they deserve to be,a d and they worked very hard to end up right there and nowhere else.
No innocent victims here. They suffer their own self-made Karma.
If I were the English people, I would hang each and everyone of these monkey into the trees until the crows are done with them.
Needless to say, even if Johnson succeeds and get a meaningful Brexit through (and as I said, I doubt that he realyl wants that), the years to come now will be so much harder for the UK to bear than would have been needed if they would have spend those two years much more wisely and would have fought the EU more determined. With May signing a deal that was clear would not be ratified and that gave any weapon the EU could have dreamed of to Brussel for keeping the English in forever, the worst of possible outcomes was secured. The situation now and the parliament madhouse beign sent into cabin arrest, is just a symptim and logical consequence.
May should be charged for high treason. Johnson lied three years ago, and people fell for what he said, that is the guilt of the people. But May maximised dmaages to the UK and made it much,much worse with her treason. and that is what she should eb charged for: High Treason, conspiracy with a foreign state/entity against the UK, and acting against vital key interests of the UK. More clearly the original old meaning of "High Treason" cannot be defined.
I expected so very much different things from the British politicians three years ago. How very wrong I was!
Well said that man :yep:
Catfish
09-10-19, 02:43 PM
Regardless what Johnson would have come out with, you cannot earnestly believe that there would be any constructive or any talk at all be possible with this clown?
Theresa May a "traitor"? Too much of "The Sun" eh? Did your Iq recently drop by 100 ? Why do People suddenly fall again for that kid of BS!
What about Cummings? Does no one see what Bannon, Farage and this rat are doing? I will spare Johnson because he is plain too dumb.
Some western nations in the world are currently on a way back to xenophobism, nationalism and pure idiocy. I now say LET THEM! The sooner they feel themselves what it means to fall back the better.
Well, since this Boris has done nothing regarding proposals or negotiations but claiming to do it (so still lying all the time), I meanwhile agree to a hundred percent, deal or no deal. Out.
And now you can take Boris and Farage and Rees-Mogg and build a perfect new England, good luck.
There he goes assuming/asserting my political allegiances again, no tories or Ukippers in my voting record thanks.
Maybe save your embarrassing hack labels for facebook.:hmmm:
Boris in my eyes is potentially a vessel to just get the f- on with it, nothing more. I have no love for the posh halfwit but he at least has a mandate to leave in the form of the 2016 referendum.
Where as those blocking the way have a mandate from whom exactly? They lost the referendum, they are trailing in the polls and are blocking a General Election, need I say more?
An election to the English Parliament is not the right answer or solution
Instead the English people should have a second referendum, not to make a second decision whether they will stay in EU or not
A referendum where they will be asked following question
Shall Great Britain leave
without a deal(hard brexit)
Or
With the current deal
(maybe not those words)
It's after having read your answer after my last nonsens-post.
The government and the parliament keeps on throwing words at each other in the English Parliament, so why doesn't they let the people have the last word.
Markus
A referendum where they will be asked following question
Shall Great Britain leave
without a deal(hard brexit)
Or
With the current deal
Markus
It would likely make no difference. what ever the result, parliament could do the same thing again when it comes to the crunch, e.g vote no to the deal, and vote no to no deal.
The only reason some mps want a second referendum, is that they 'hope' it will give them support for the course of action they personally want to take, (doesn't mean it will), and if it doesn't they can just ignore it and push for what they want anyway (yet again).
Only way you'd get me to vote in a second referendum is if parliament, voted and agreed on how to act on its outcome first and it was legally binding.
Failing that it would be a fairly pointless excersize.
And its not just up to us how long we can take to decide what we are doing, its also up to the EU. They are fed up with us and I don't blame them - but its still unlikely they will be in hurry to trigger Article 50 and kick us to the curb, despite the fact it would make them look strong and us weak if they actually did it.
but they get money from us while we are still a member. (almost a quarter of there budget even) And the bloc hasn't been doing so well for money over the past decade as I'm sure you have noticed.
Skybird
09-11-19, 04:12 AM
Careful with those money claims, many people have gotten much stuff wrong there.
This was the brutto in-payment by states 2017, in billions of Euros
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/155196/umfrage/die-zehn-wichtigsten-beitragszahler-im-eu-haushalt-2010/
Germany paid the most with over 21%, next came France with a bit above 15% and then the UK with around 12%, then Italy with 11%.
You have to reduce the numbers in that table above by the cash flowing back from the EU into the UK (in various formats and for various service sectors), and the so-called Brit rabate.So the actual net payment from Londown to Brussel is even significantly smaller. Thge campaign three yeras ago that every week 350 million coins were sent to Brussel, was no really hitting the nail on top. It ignored the flowback.
Personally I think the whole redistribution scheme is illegitimate and silly. It allows many parasites in poltical service to make a living from moving the money around themselves . But what else do you expect in a planned economy and a planned currency system. Ergonomically, the system is a nightmare and a folly.
Skybird
09-11-19, 04:21 AM
Scottish court declares prorogation unlawful.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855
Catfish
09-11-19, 04:37 AM
There he goes assuming/asserting my political allegiances again, no tories or Ukippers in my voting record thanks.
Maybe save your embarrassing hack labels for facebook. [...]
I leave Facebook and twitter to its usual clientele, thank you.
My second part/sentence ("You can now take Farage...") was not directed at you, or an answer to that, but yes i'm aware it looks like it. Sorry.
Regarding the brexit and if people really want it, or were even informed in a way that they could make an educated decision about it, remains debatable. They have been lied to, but then wars have been started with similar lies, so why learn from history.
They have elected a certain range of people to represent them and do the best for the nation, and a lot of the latter obviously think that brexit will do harm. Now they threw that referendum and it turned not out as they expected.
I am sure if you make a referendum about death penalty and accept the outcome you will soon have that law. As maybe painting all roads yellow, or award Boris the joker award of the year.
Naming this research vessel Boaty McBoatface by some other referendum also did not turn out as intended, however in this silly matter they did not respect the referendum. Unbelievable!
If some Farage tells you it is necessary to burn down all the woods in England, and there's a referendum, and for whatever reason (lies, propaganda or sheer stupidity) this referendum turns out to be the people's will to really burn it all down, would the government "respect the will of the people", or would they throw it in the dust bin where it belongs?
Also, it was a question directed at the people to advise the government of a general direction, it was and is non-commital and legally not binding.
Jimbuna
09-11-19, 05:49 AM
Scottish court declares prorogation unlawful.
I'm not sure what impact the judgement will have on the current suspension of Parliament but the government said it will appeal against the ruling to the Supreme Court in London.
If some Farage tells you it is necessary to burn down all the woods in England, and there's a referendum, and for whatever reason (lies, propaganda or sheer stupidity) this referendum turns out to be the people's will to really burn it all down, would the government "respect the will of the people", or would they throw it in the dust bin where it belongs?
Also, it was a question directed at the people to advise the government of a general direction, it was and is non-commital and legally not binding.
Burn down the woods, and let the people learn the hard way that this was bad decision,:) though in seriousness that's quite a false equivalency the subject of being an EU member state or not is nuanced, it has pros and cons. Burning all trees has no positives at all.
Are governments there to serve the will of their people, or they there to control the people, Bottom-up or top-down rule? which do you prefer? because you sound in favor of the latter.
If you going to let the state over rule the people on the matter of Brexit, why not everything else on the basis of their 'trusted expertise'?. You know we quite like our civil rights, but if the state decides they are not in our best interest, is it fine they abolish them? - since our elite overlords know whats best?
Democracy means giving a people the right to their own self determination, if they decide to burn it all down, as a democratic leader - who are you to stand in their way?
You are working off the assumption - and rather tired Pro remain arguments that:,
a) Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for (too stupid)
b) they were overwhelmingly taken in by Ukip propaganda - (yet Ukip got no where in the post referendum GE)
c) No deal leave will be a massive sky falling in disaster that will punish many who voted for it.
Tell me how you know there is any truth to a) b) and c) because there is no evidence to support that any of it that true or not, what you are repeating is Remainer speculation.
Skybird
09-11-19, 06:12 AM
Ordinary Peter and Paul do not have a mclue of nothing, so the fate of a nation is in bad hands if all decisions are elft to the people. If you leave deciions to experts hgowever, or voted representatives, than this only makes sense iof these are indeed expoerts and indeed know it better.
And nthat is absolutely in dohbt boht wioth regard to experts and polticans. The overwhelming, heart-saddening majprit yof them are selfish skunks and incompeten, ideology-driven idiots themselves.
Thats why I want to reduce the playground size where politicians can govern amok to the smallest possible, imaginable size, anmd take away form them as much power as possiblpe, and leave admionstration in the regions as small as possible. Becaseuw the nbigger the playground plticans play on, the bigger the consequences for everybody form their errors and insanities. The harder the falloput is to be managed afterwards. The more difficult it becomes to repair thre dfmage and clean up the brown stuff these players have left behind.
Diversification of risk. Foprcing management streuctures to keep wiothin dimensions that everybody affected can oversee and can undersytand: that is what transparency is called. As much self-repsonsibility left to the individual as possible from a communal standpoint: if the decision and acting of the idniviodual doe snot harm others, the others have no claim to want governing the individual nevertheless. Nobody must live for the sake of somebody else. He may form a voluntary, free decision to do so - but not be made subject of an obligation to do so. Freedom mjst not onlyallow the chance to succeed by one'S own deeds and decisions but also to fail and to face the consequences.
The EU ignores, violates all this. And that is why more and more freedom-loving people dispise and hate it so much. Its tyranny in paternalistic disguise. A wolf in sheeps' skin. And it lies and betrays on its on behalf.
What did Juncker said 2005 on the French referendum: "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'." And thats what they did. Thats what this gangsters club always does. They do not accept No for an answer. They send you voting until they get the result that they command.
For this underhanded attitude he and the EU deserve to be destroyed. Any government ticking like this should be brought down immediately, because it then has turned into the biggest enemy of the people, an oppressor, a tyrant.
a) Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for (too stupid)
b) they were overwhelmingly taken in by Ukip propaganda - (yet Ukip got no where in the post referendum GE)
c) No deal leave will be a massive sky falling in disaster that will punish many who voted for it.
Oh goodie let me have ago....:D
a) True too a point, now you made be wondering why I said that after all I voted leave. In my case when the EEC morphed into the EU this went way belong what it was meant to be. I paid little notice of the reforendrum as my mind was already made up but if I did I would not have voted.
As I said both campaign's ran disgustingly and both sides treated it as a fun competition, enough of me now to the point raised. Too stupid no the fault lay in the campaign far too short and rotten useless info from both sides. The question on the ballet paper was crystal clear.
b) No, and here is why, many remainers blame UKIP which is wrong. UKIP ran their own independent campaign which played no part of the Vote Leave campaign that told UKIP to clear off.
c) For me I took into account the risk and lets be honest we as in all sides have no idea what will really happen as no country as I am aware of has left the EU. Greenland left the EEC but that was a long time ago. For better or worst the result was to leave but I do feel at the time of the reforendrum there should have been a double leave question asking leave with or without a deal. That said the whole mess lays at Westminster whom bogged it up in the first place, they caused the bloody mess they should clean it up and leave the EU.
:) :)
Oh goodie let me have ago....:D
a) True too a point, now you made be wondering why I said that after all I voted leave. In my case when the EEC morphed into the EU this went way belong what it was meant to be. I paid little notice of the reforendrum as my mind was already made up but if I did I would not have voted.
:) :)
a) Is true to a point for both sides, way too many die hard Brexiteers and Remainers alike, seem to understand shockingly little about the EU when pressed on it beyond the robotic group fanboyism of waving a union jack or painting their face blue. Admittedly its not simple institution that can be easily understood.
I sense its more of a case of what it represents, and people picked a side based on that.
People who are overly progressive and keen on unions and collectives, View barriers and borders between nations as a hindrance to our advancement, have a glossy view of others cultures but a selectively negative view of their own - Boom you're a remainer.
People who are more nationalist and keen on the preservation of their own culture and traditions, see the necessity in having borders and boundaries, have selectively glossy view of their own culture and either a negative or just indifferent view of others. - Boom, Brexiteer.
Nothing really wrong with either of those stand points, but that's how many will have very simply and largely emotionally aligned them selves with out any real analysis of what it is exactly we are remaining in or leaving behind.
Those were the easy but not very intelligent ways or picking a side in the Brexit debate. its not that those people are stupid, they might be brilliant in other ways and just have other things they would rather focus their time and energy on.
but if we going to split hairs on why 'the people' collectively choose what they choose and question the legitimacy of their decisions, there may as well never be another peoples referendum or even an election ever again. If you are going to be democratic you must accept peoples flaws and ignorance. Or you just embrace a dictatorship run by elites who will decide everything for you.
if you like democracy, you have to still like it even when it doesn't go your way.
Jimbuna
09-11-19, 07:00 AM
Great post Francis and one which confirms to me why I'm a Brexiteer.
At the core this whole rotten mess lays at the shed door of Dodgy Dave who gave us the referendum and after losing what did he do? He took the easy road out stepped down as PM and MP, now rewriting history in his shed some where in England.
Maybot was a remainer and a internal control freak while bowing down to the EU and not fighting for the UK. She caved in like a pack of cards. Bojo has taken bad advice from psycho Dominick and now has paid the price.
Parliament has failed and all of them should be swept away time for a change and cut the rotten deadwood away.
As for the bigger picture Europe would be better off without the EU.
Jimbuna
09-11-19, 07:25 AM
Surprised Gideon didn't get a mention.
Surprised Gideon didn't get a mention.
He was busy in his other three or four jobs at the time. I hear he's up to around seven or eight now, do I hear ten? :haha:
Scottish court declares prorogation unlawful.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855
I'm not sure what impact the judgement will have on the current suspension of Parliament but the government said it will appeal against the ruling to the Supreme Court in London.
This is where an arguable flaw with the 1707 act of Union between England and Scotland rears it's head.
One of the stipulations was that the Scottish Legal System would remain separate from England's (likewise the same applied to the the Church of Scotland) otherwise it's highly likely that the Scottish social elite would not have agreed to the Union with England.
That the UK has three distinct legal systems, that for England and Wales, the Scottish one and one for Northern Ireland isn't well known, even within this country. How they interact with each other within the whole UK legal system has, as far as I'm aware, never been set in stone.:hmmm:
You also have another problem in that the pro-UK side in Scottish politics has always sold the idea that the UK is a Union of equals, ergo, Scotland, a nation of 5 million, is the equal of England, a nation of 55 million. Naturally, England, where the concept of the individual is ingrained culturally, has difficulty accepting this concept when it becomes aware of it. Most English people seem to automatically interpret such an idea as meaning that one Scot equals ten Englishmen and resent it accordingly. For Scots, where, traditionally, the group or community rates higher than the individual, this is interpreted simply as one community being the equal of another, regardless of the size disparity.
This is where EU membership for Scotland is attractive for it's supporters - all nations, regardless of size are (nominally) treated as having an equal voice, hence each country has a veto. In comparison, the UK isn't set up that way. It, is confusingly, both a single Nation and a Union of nations at the same time. This wasn't a problem when you had a single government (Westminster) but New Labour's devolution drive for the non-English parts of the UK upset and broke the balance that existed previously. Even moreso as England itself doesn't have a single voice of it's own.:hmmm:
Mike.
Jimbuna
09-11-19, 07:56 AM
That the UK has three distinct legal systems, that for England and Wales, the Scottish one and one for Northern Ireland isn't well known, even within this country. How they interact with each other within the whole UK legal system has, as far as I'm aware, never been set in stone.:hmmm:
Good point Mike, I remember during my time as Police Officer, my authority was only valid in England and Wales.
Good point Mike, I remember during my time as Police Officer, my authority was only valid in England and Wales.
Likewise when I had a Personal Alcohol Licence (I was a Store Trainer), mine was only valid in Scotland.
It's interesting to see some of the comment's for Henry Hill's article of the legal ruling: LINK (https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/09/scottish-court-rules-prorogation-unlawful-government-says-parliament-wont-be-recalled.html). Ignorance of the subtlety of what constitutes the UK legal system appears widespread amongst the Tory Party's Hard Right.
Lord Ashcroft's polling for Northern Ireland:
Lord Ashcroft: My Northern Ireland polling. Six out of ten voters there accept the backstop. But only one in five Unionists do so. (https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/09/lord-ashcroft-my-northern-ireland-polling-six-out-of-ten-voters-accept-the-backstop-but-only-one-in-five-unionists-do-so.html#idc-cover)
No doubt uncomfortable reading for the DUP, but it also highlights the continuing effects of religious sectarianism on NI political process.:hmmm:
Mike.
Jimbuna
09-11-19, 09:03 AM
The Government is appealing, and the Supreme Court may yet row in behind the English courts and avert any immediate crisis. But even if so, this is a battlefield we shall undoubtedly return to – whatever happens with Brexit.
I expect the Supreme Court to do as above but whatever happens next is anyone's guess.
Either way....what an almighty mess.
Bilge_Rat
09-11-19, 09:37 AM
Scottish court declares prorogation unlawful.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855
That decision shows the whole problem with Courts trying to second guess political decisions.
The Court rules that the advice the PM gave was unlawful, but under the UK Constitution, the PM has no power, he only advises the Queen who has all the powers, but is obliged to follow the PM's advice.
For the order to have any teeth, the Court would have to order the Queen to recall Parliament, but the Courts are deemed to be an extension of the Crown, do they have the power to force the Queen to take a political decision?
Can the Court "order" the PM to advise the Queen to recall Parliament? Would that be legal under the UK Constitution?
It is a political minefield, no doubt why the Court said the advice was "unlawful", but ordered no remedy.
Boris Johnson rejects Nigel Farage's offer of non-aggression pact at next general electionhttps://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-rejects-nigel-farages-offer-of-non-aggression-pact-at-next-election-11807175
Way to go to loose more votes Bojo who told you to say no to Nigel, psycho Dominick? :hmmm:
Meanwhile this....
Operation Yellowhammer: Government no-deal Brexit documents releasedhttps://news.sky.com/story/operation-yellowhammer-government-no-deal-brexit-documents-released-11807339
Catfish
09-11-19, 04:04 PM
[…]
You are working off the assumption - and rather tired Pro remain arguments that:,
a) Brexiteers didn't know what they voted for (too stupid)
b) they were overwhelmingly taken in by Ukip propaganda - (yet Ukip got no where in the post referendum GE)
c) No deal leave will be a massive sky falling in disaster that will punish many who voted for it.
Tell me how you know there is any truth to a) b) and c) because there is no evidence to support that any of it that true or not, what you are repeating is Remainer speculation.
a) I admit i have no idea what brexiters think now, and i refuse to call them brexiteers, because musketeers or buccaneers are a completely different breed, something brexiters surely have not.
They have been lied to, they believed it, they are too proud to admit that after having tons of evidence for the lies being sold to them, and they are turning at least England into a chaos (if Scotland and/or Ireland have the guts to leave the 'UK')
b) Ukip propaganda and the brexit project fear against immigrants (anyone remembers Farage's big poster?) sure influenced them, whether "UKIP went somewhere" or not. And UKIP, Farage and some others certainly knew how to spread propaganda of the lowest sort, and it hit home. In a way i would never have believed, this was a genuine surprise for me.
c) I do believe that brexit will damage the UK or at least England (if the rest breaks away), it is not only Cameron's papers published after the referendum (lmao) but also what is described in new publications, or even in Johnson's "Operation Yellowhammer" no deal scenario just posted by Steed. Really, what will they think of next, operation chastise again, The Blitz? Is there any non-war language left? Or is "yellowhammer" Johnson's frozen pee?
Yes there are tons of evidence of lies on the benefits of brexit, and i could prove it just by quoting pages from this thread, but all has been said about that ages ago. I admit i am losing my patience. It is obviously a nationalist Thing, it is clearly not about economy. And it defies all of what people like Cecil Lewis hoped and wrote for more than hundred years ago.
*(quote from link below) "The only positive is that Brexit has at last broken the political and social hegemony that kept our population subdued and somewhat apathetic. They are no longer apathetic, and their rage has become unbearable to the Westminster political and media chattering classes. They simply do not know what to do with this rage: they are used to being left in peace as they cause havoc in people’s lives. Now they are being challenged on what they do, and what they say."
Alright, but then.. Johnson???
This article* https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/01/31/many-working-class-people-believe-in-brexit-who-can-blame-them/ made me understand the rage and fury of the "lower classes" as they are still being identified in England or so it seems, but even when i understand frustration and the urge to change the existing political landscape, which has ignored them for ages, at all cost, why for heaven's sake do they think that just of all leaving the EU will help them? It was just of all the EU that introduced better conditions for working classes, one of the major reasons for Right wingers like Rees-Mogg to get away from such ideas asap.
I have no idea what will be better in England (or the UK if it holds) after a brexit, you can tell me, and we will see.
Skybird
09-11-19, 04:28 PM
Its so strange - or not strange at all - that you accuse Brexiteers of this and that dialectical or political trick and practice - and when the same ways are being practiced on behalf of pro-EU issues and interests, you have nothing to complain about. Double standards. But why not, if not even the EU commission has problems with double standards, and confessing to cheatign and misleading.
You do not complain about cheap tricks. They are fully acceptable to you - as long as not being used against what you want, but are beign used in favour of what you want.
Quite some of the things you complain about, by now are known by more people in the UK than were known three years ago. And still: pro-Brexit is strong in opinion shares, if there were a new referendum, it is anything but certain that anti-Brexiteers would now collect a majority. You should wonder why that is so. And come to the conclusion that your premisses and factors that you tend to weigh heavily, maybe are not as important for many Brits as you think. And from here you maybe should reach for a conclusion that there are interests on their mind that have little to do with your motives you assume they have.
Germans are always knowing so damn well what motives, interests and morals other people and countries should have. A nerve-killing deformation of a deeply servile, state-believing national character. Maybe explainable after Prussia and two world wars. But not excusable.
a) I admit i have no idea what brexiters think now, and i refuse to call them brexiteers, because musketeers or buccaneers are a completely different breed, something brexiters surely have not.
They have been lied to, they believed it, they are too proud to admit that after having tons of evidence for the lies being sold to them, and they are turning at least England into a chaos (if Scotland and/or Ireland have the guts to leave the 'UK')
b) Ukip propaganda and the brexit project fear against immigrants (anyone remembers Farage's big poster?) sure influenced them, whether "UKIP went somewhere" or not. And UKIP, Farage and some others certainly knew how to spread propaganda of the lowest sort, and it hit home. In a way i would never have believed, this was a genuine surprise for me.
c) I do believe that brexit will damage the UK or at least England (if the rest breaks away), it is not only Cameron's papers published after the referendum (lmao) but also what is described in new publications, or even in Johnson's "Operation Yellowhammer" no deal scenario just posted by Steed. Really, what will they think of next, operation chastise again, The Blitz? Is there any non-war language left? Or is "yellowhammer" Johnson's frozen pee?
Yes there are tons of evidence of lies on the benefits of brexit, and i could prove it just by quoting pages from this thread, but all has been said about that ages ago. I admit i am losing my patience. It is obviously a nationalist Thing, it is clearly not about economy. And it defies all of what people like Cecil Lewis hoped and wrote for more than hundred years ago.
I have no idea what will be better in England (or the UK if it holds) after a brexit, you can tell me, and we will see.
The Leave and Remain campaigns were so bad in places, I almost didn't vote at all.
The leavers have been mislead in part, as likely have remainers, we will see if the sky falls in as they predicted, i guess.
but i wont say 'lied to' because its unproven, we still don't have an outcome and who's to say that those who 'lied' didn't believe it them selves? false conviction is not the same as lying - another thing you and nobody else can really prove.
the Leave poster and NHS claim were propaganda, as are claims of empty supermarkets, and chlorinated chicken. Those kinds of stunts and claims only add to mess of confusion and divert peoples attention away from the more sensible points and principles. Would I use those examples to undermine a persons reasons for wanting to leave or remain? No - not unless they were attempting to press those exact points as valid reasons for there choice.
My bottom line for why i lean on the leave side is simple, our current democratic system free from the EU increases our right to self determination (as a people), while being an EU member restricts it.
I prefer to be ruled by electable democrats (and their lobbyist mates), and not unelectable bureaucrats (and their lobbyist mates). Sorry I'd just rather not take the chance with politicians who are virtually accountable to no one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzXi6niHW8
None of us know what will happen in the immediate aftermath or ten years down the line, after a no deal or a deal. we are all hedging bets on what we think will happen or what we hope will happen, nothing more.
And you are no exception.
I highly doubt you can prove anything by 'quoting from this thread'.
Its likely what you have is the same as the rest of us, speculation, links to media hit pieces that make various accusations (written by people no more honest than those they have in their cross hairs), and a certain amount of faith in your own narrative.
What we believe we we know and what we actually know are often not the same thing.
Only time will tell if you or I were right or not. So yes - we'll see indeed.
Mr Quatro
09-11-19, 06:42 PM
Good reading JU_88 :up:
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 02:34 AM
Some very insightful reading here.
Catfish
09-12-19, 02:38 AM
Ju88, it is hilarious how everyone still quotes Johnson's euromyths including you or this video with the "unelected blah". Fish packed in plastic? Curve of bananas? Unelected bureaucrats? It is hard to believe Johnson believes in the BS he repeats saying. He recently repeated the 350 million pounds bs again!
I have posted a 200+ point list of intentional lies and myths about the EU but obviously no one cares.
B.t.w. Johnson has been fired back then because of inventing things out of the blue in his time as a correspondent in Brussels. And now he quotes his own made-up.. things you do not call lies, for "evidence" ? :haha:
What would you do if people repeatedly lie about you, trying to influence others to believe those lies about you, and then say that they want to discuss things on even terms with you wih a straight face? Screw them. Kick them. Out. I am astonished about the EU's patience. This is by far the point that aggravates me most in the last weeks.
No one understands the brexiters, not even in Romania, Hungary or Poland. They certainly applaud supporting their right wingers' ideas and drawing their advantages, but understanding why England does that? No.
Ignoring certain behaviour and believing false claims will not prevent it from biting in the long run. I mean brexit lies, you mean the EU.
It is like someone telling you the sun circles the earth and the moon is made of green cheese. And you just stand there, helpless and wondering what has gone wrong in this society.
Ju88, it is hilarious how everyone still quotes Johnson's euromyths including you or this video with the "unelected blah". Fish packed in plastic? Curve of bananas? Unelected bureaucrats? It is hard to believe Johnson believes in the BS he repeats saying. He recently repeated the 350 million pounds bs again!
I have posted a 200+ point list of intentional lies and myths about the EU but obviously no one cares.
B.t.w. Johnson has been fired back then because of inventing things out of the blue in his time as a correspondent in Brussels. And now he quotes his own made-up.. things you do not call lies, for "evidence" ? :haha:
What would you do if people repeatedly lie about you, trying to influence others to believe those lies about you, and then say that they want to discuss things on even terms with you wih a straight face? Screw them. Kick them. Out. I am astonished about the EU's patience. This is by far the point that aggravates me most in the last weeks.
No one understands the brexiters, not even in Romania, Hungary or Poland. They certainly applaud supporting their right wingers' ideas and drawing their advantages, but understanding why England does that? No.
Ignoring certain behaviour and believing false claims will not prevent it from biting in the long run. I mean brexit lies, you mean the EU.
It is like someone telling you the sun circles the earth and the moon is made of green cheese. And you just stand there, helpless and wondering what has gone wrong in this society.
I didn't listen to brexiteers or Boris, and I didn't listen to remainers either.
I quickly learned that neither were really worth listening to.
In 2016, I avoided the talking heads and media entirely, instead I read, listened and watched as much 'neutral-ish' info on the EU as my fee time allowed. (because finding anything neutral was hard)
And after all that it was still a fairly tough call, but leaned towards Leave.
You repeating what Boris said is neither here nor there. I don't listen to Boris.
but even a stopped clock can be right twice a day.
The Eu is indeed run by bureaucrats split over 3 different institutions, Parliament, Court of Justice and Bank. they are not voted in by the people of the blocs member states. Policy and legislation is determined by a few - in back rooms, The MEPs (we CAN vote for) can vote yes or no when its presented to them, but they can't suggest revisions or changes. And if they vote no, revisions are made in back room and the legislation is presented back to them again.... and again until they vote 'Yes' and it can be passed. So when you vote for your MEP, you basically voting in a person who you hope can help QA all new EU legislation with as much power as the 'yes / no' button gives them. And they have no power to request anything be reappealled once its been passed.
So are you saying that's a Boris lie? or are you saying you consider that process to be democratic?
I'm not interested in hearing anymore about Boris - or projections about what east Europeans think of me, which are reliably based on?.... god knows what.
I'm not a Daily mail reader.
But Feel free to tell me why you think I should support the EU, instead of endlessly asserting that I'm being lied to. - I know, but we are all being lied to Catfish.
What it boils down to is that I believe Britain future chances of survival out side the EU, are marginally greater the EU's future survival as a whole.
Its a project based on slow but continuous expansion, that absorbs as much sovereign power as it reasonably can, It doesn't really want nations with indervidual Identities and democratic sovereign governments at all, those are inconveniences, it wants one uniform European Identity. One market, One Currency, One border, One Military. One big happy superstate built one piece at a time, and operated by a very small select few with almost no direct accountability to its people. Imagine how people would react if some one tried to introduce all of that collectivization and control in one decade?
yeah Its introduced very slowly and softly for a reason, to make it more palatable. But that is its ultimate ambition and its no secret, it openly and proudly admits as much..
Political, market and monetary union is fine, but that is really only the beginning as far as the EU is concerned.
To my mind that is both kinda creepy and over-ambitious, and i really don't think it will work, given Europe's demographic and significant cultural differences.
but I'll leave you to tell me why you think its a good thing.
Skybird
09-12-19, 04:50 AM
My bottom line for why i lean on the leave side is simple, our current democratic system free from the EU increases our right to self determination (as a people), while being an EU member restricts it.
I prefer to be ruled by electable democrats (and their lobbyist mates), and not unelectable bureaucrats (and their lobbyist mates). Sorry I'd just rather not take the chance with politicians who are virtually accountable to no one.
(...)
The Eu is indeed run by bureaucrats - who are not voted in by the people of the blocs member states in any shape or form. Policy and legislation is determined by a few - in back rooms, The MEPs (we vote for) can vote yes or no when its presented to them, but they can't suggest revisions or changes. And if they vote no, revisions are made in back room and the legislation is presented back to them again.... and again until they vote 'Yes' and it can be passed.
Am I listening to myself here...? :)
Catfish
09-12-19, 05:01 AM
^^ So you did not get a voting ticket it the 2019 EU elections? :hmmm:
http://theconversation.com/european-elections-guide-whats-actually-on-the-ballot-paper-116975
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/european-elections/european_elections/the_voting_system.html
Brexit: Labour urges Parliament recall after no-deal Brexit papers releasedhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49671566
That depends on the supreme court hearing next week.
Catfish
09-12-19, 05:29 AM
Already from 2018, with a lot of brexit lies laid open:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/19/dominic-cummings-is-the-true-cowardly-face-of-the-brexiters
Lies or truth do not matter.
“It’s too late. We won and there’s nothing you little people can do about it.”
(Dominic Cummings)
The right does not want Britain to take back control. It wants to control Britain, and anyone who gets in its way is a fake, a grandstander, an enemy or saboteur. It has worked nicely, and England and the UK are on an interesting way.
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 05:30 AM
^^ So you did not get a voting ticket it the 2019 EU elections? :hmmm:
http://theconversation.com/european-elections-guide-whats-actually-on-the-ballot-paper-116975
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/european-elections/european_elections/the_voting_system.html
Kai, I think you may be drifting away from the point Francis is making. Your post quoted above is in relation to the election of MEP's when the point he is making (see below) is in regard to who actually determines policies and legislation.
=JU_88 The Eu is indeed run by bureaucrats - who are not voted in by the people of the blocs member states in any shape or form. Policy and legislation is determined by a few - in back rooms, The MEPs (we vote for) can vote yes or no when its presented to them, but they can't suggest revisions or changes. And if they vote no, revisions are made in back room and the legislation is presented back to them again.... and again until they vote 'Yes' and it can be passed.
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 05:32 AM
Boris Johnson has denied lying to the Queen over the advice he gave her over the five-week suspension of Parliament.
The prime minister was speaking after Scotland's highest civil court ruled on Wednesday the shutdown was unlawful.
Asked whether he had lied to the monarch about his reasons for the suspension, he replied: "Absolutely not." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49674516
Whilst on the topic of 'lies' I suppose Boris would have to say that so the Supreme Court will be the final arbiter.
Catfish
09-12-19, 05:44 AM
^^ i would call this representative democracy, which in no way is different from England's government elections, or german, or french etc., for that matter ?
"Every government has bureaucrats which are by nature unelected. While the EU has around 33,000 of them, the British government employs over 400,000 civil [my edit: unelected] servants."
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2019/02/19/is-the-european-union-governed-by-unelected-bureaucrats/
Also here:
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/14/does-it-make-sense-to-refer-to-eu-officials-as-unelected-bureaucrats
The complaint might be that not only junior EU officials, but many senior ones are appointed rather than elected. This, too, is true of all governments. British papers that disparage the "unelected" Michel Barnier, the EU’s lead Brexit negotiator, would struggle to find a country that has an elected trade representative. And Juncker or now Mrs von der Leyen are not deciders or rulers of the executive, but rather mediators.
You vote for a person of whom you expect to represent your ideas most or best. True, in England some.. rulers are born into the house of Lords without having to prove competence or knowledge in a class society, nor do they need to have a people's majority for their position.
(But as Stephen Fry said, "why not, as long as it works")
Not that elected politicians are necessarily better qualified, though there are some (even if it's a rare breed).
But you cannot quite compare this to the EU, and the "unelected bureaucrats" acccusation does not hold water. No, indeed it does not, look at the links i posted, and not for the first time.
MEP's cannot present your ideas at all, they can In accordance with your ideals. Vote yes or no to the ideas presented to them that were draughted behind closed doors, by the special people.
:hmmm:
You the voter of the MEP have the most distant and watered down impact imaginable. Its great we can vote for MEPs, unfortuntley MEPs can't do very much.
A Guardian opinion peice on Brexiteers? hmm, I'm sure that will be fair and balanced.
Would you unironically read a Daily Express opinion piece on Remainers?
Anyway I've not heard of Dominic Cummings, any reason should I care about him or Nick Cohens opinion? Catfish?
:)
Look maybe we leave with no deal on the 31st (probably not) and all the Remain Predictions will come true. Then I will happily admit i got it wrong, until then its just more chatter,
I'm fairly content I reached my own conclusion with out listening to too many hacks along way. Who lied about what and who claimed what is quite irrelevant to me personally.
i don't even know who half these people are.
I'll read your links when you read my personal reasons for a being a EU skeptic and respond with something relevant to that.
Rather than over simplified 'this why Brexiteers are stupid and horrible' points.
And you can note that not once, have I said anything derogatory about Remainers in general.
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 06:55 AM
Anyway I've not heard of Dominic Cummings, any reason should I care about him or Nick Cohens opinion? Catfish?
You jest...surely? :hmmm:
:)
You jest...surely? :hmmm:
:) No Seriously. I don't really know him. You've read my thoughts Jim, would reading about this Dominic Cummings being a 'See you next tuesday' change my mind do you think? :hmmm:
You jest...surely? :hmmm:
:) No Seriously. I don't really know him. You've read my thoughts Jim, would reading about this Dominic Cummings being 'See you next tuesday' change my mind do you think? :hmmm:
I don't really care who is the face of remain or leave, Is Brexit a personality contest?
I only really care about the actual context of remaining or leaving. These Names and faces will probably not matter in 5 years.
Its a game of 'Look kids, this bad person is aligned with your belief in some way, you don't want us think of you as a bad person! do you?
Pathetic.
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 07:16 AM
No Seriously. I don't really know him. You've read my thoughts Jim, would reading about this Dominic Cummings being 'See you next tuesday' change my mind do you think? :hmmm:
I don't really care who is the face of remain or leave, Is Brexit a personality contest?
I only really care about the actual context of remaining or leaving. These Names and faces will probably not matter in 5 years.
Its a game of 'Look kids, this bad person is aligned with your belief in some way, you don't want me/us think of you as a bad person too, do you?
Pathetic.
He's the current special adviser to Boris and not everyones cup of tea apparently.
Dominic Mckenzie Cummings (born 25 November 1971) is a British political strategist. From 2007 to 2014, he was a special adviser to the then Education Secretary, Michael Gove. From 2015 to 2016 he was the campaign director of Vote Leave, an organisation opposed to continued British membership of the European Union that took an active part in the 2016 referendum campaign on that issue. In July 2019, new Prime Minister Boris Johnson appointed him the role of special adviser to the government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Cummings
Is there any member of Conservative party whos everyone's cup of tea ?
I expect he may well be a douche, but it probably wont make much difference at this point.
Psycho Dominic is hated by all party's, I suspect if Westminster had a choice to get rid of him before brexit I think they would. :03:
Jimbuna
09-12-19, 07:45 AM
Is there any member of Conservative party whos everyone's cup of tea ?
I expect he may well be a douche, but it probably wont make much difference at this point.
You're probably right, I think the horse bolted long ago.
I guess when it comes to this referendum in 2016 both sides was not given full information or wasn't really interested in it..some of them had decided how they would vote.
I'm pretty sure, whatever you the English voted in this referendum, are very frustrated if not angry on your politicians.
Markus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb95IyNvrEY
"...the Brit hit the fan..."...
<O>
The way I'm understanding it now, The UK is not probably not leaving on 31st, unless Boris is willing to go to jail over what he allegedly believes, (a situation he 50% got him self into really)
I'm 99% sure he will not be willing to do that :P, Nothing about the guy strikes me as remotely sincere. even when he's being honest he sounds like hes making it up ffs.
Ive read that one bizarre option that might be possible to him would be a vote of no confidence in himself, which could result in the Queen appointing Corbyn as PM. :haha:
That would actually be hilarious (in the short term anyway)! No doubt Corbyn would run to the EU to ask for an extension like a good boy, which they would almost certainly grant, and so the saga and the bickering would drag on....
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 04:54 AM
Ultimately I doubt we will ever leave but one thing is for sure IMHO and that is the next general election whenever it comes will put a definitive end to this ludicrous situation we all find ourselves in.
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 05:16 AM
Now this does concern me.
https://www.facebook.com/657015324686799/videos/373626173573391/
As does this.
https://www.facebook.com/stopthelabourparty/videos/417539675550839/
Now this does concern me.
https://www.facebook.com/657015324686799/videos/373626173573391/Really?....I do not see why you should jim, take a stress pill and chillout old bean. :) :)
Bojo said he rather be dead in a ditch so why do I think that is BS. Remember Heathrow when he said he would lay down in front of a bulldozer. I do not believe we will ever leave the EU and as for the next general election I predict Parliament will be even more fractured resulting in another general election in around or less than six months time.
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 05:46 AM
Really?....I do not see why you should jim, take a stress pill and chillout old bean. :) :)
It goes to show both sides are as bad/iffy as each other.
Busted link but hey we can fix it with six million dollars. :haha:
Skybird
09-13-19, 06:02 AM
Ultimately I doubt we will ever leave but one thing is for sure IMHO and that is the next general election whenever it comes will put a definitive end to this ludicrous situation we all find ourselves in.
You mean when Farrage has won with an absolute majoirty? :D You opened up the final bill without the courts, I think. :03:
"Worms on my hook shall never get off it again." - ancient EU saying.
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 06:13 AM
You mean when Farrage has won with an absolute majoirty? :D You opened up the final bill without the courts, I think. :03:
"Worms on my hook shall never get off it again." - ancient EU saying.
The way things are going that may well be the case.
I doubt the Brexit party will win let alone win 10 seats if there lucky they may get one or two. I think the biggest winners will be the LibDems and SNP. What will be interesting is how many people will bother to vote. :hmmm:
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 06:49 AM
"We don't see family now," says one woman in her 50s, who lives in Norfolk. "We didn't see them that often and now I have no desire to see them ever again."
The woman, a Remain supporter who is French but married to a Briton, wants to remain anonymous. She tells how she has felt "unable to talk" to some friends and family members, after hearing their views on Brexit.
She hasn't spoken to some friends - despite having known them for decades. "I know if I speak to them I would go into such an argument. It makes me very, very sad."
And of family, she says: "I think my husband is trying to keep me away from my in-laws as much as possible so I don't have a row with them. He hates confrontation.
"I don't thrive on it, but if I need to make a point I will make a point."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49648119
This reminds me of the national mineworkers strike in the early eighties when families and communities turned on each other :nope:
Simple answer don't talk about it, you only have to say i am not interested in politics and rather talk about other things. I don't talk about brexit that much when not on here. People should remember this is what politicians want, divide and rule. Stop playing their game after all they bogged it up.
Jimbuna
09-13-19, 09:41 AM
Boris Johnson has said he "won't be deterred by anybody" from leaving the EU on 31 October.
The prime minister said he was "cautiously optimistic" of getting a Brexit deal, but the UK would leave by the deadline "whatever happens".
EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said he did not have "reasons to be optimistic" over getting a deal.
Mr Johnson will meet him and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker on Monday for talks.
During the PM's speech, at the Convention of the North in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, he was heckled by an audience member who told him to "get back to Parliament" and "sort out the mess that you have created".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49690613
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99KH0TR-J4
Bilge_Rat
09-13-19, 11:23 AM
yes, you always have to be careful about discussing politics. I usually stay away from the topic.
I get into epic discussions with my brother-in-law about Trump (he would get along well with Vienna), but we both treat it as a game and there are no hard feelings afterwards.
DODGY DAVE IS BACK! :eek:
David Cameron has accused the current prime minister, Boris Johnson, and Michael Gove of behaving "appallingly" during the EU referendum campaign.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49690618
Its all very dandy blaming others but you Dodgy Dave in the Shed gave us the referendum so it lays at your shed door. :x :stare:
Who was it who ran off to hide in a shed?...YOU!
Jimbuna
09-14-19, 04:49 AM
yes, you always have to be careful about discussing politics. I usually stay away from the topic.
I get into epic discussions with my brother-in-law about Trump (he would get along well with Vienna), but we both treat it as a game and there are no hard feelings afterwards.
That is definitely the best way to be on such matters :yep:
Jimbuna
09-14-19, 07:16 AM
Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson says she hopes to convince members to back a policy of scrapping Brexit without another referendum, as the party's conference begins in Bournemouth.
Ms Swinson says holding the referendum got the UK "into a mess".
And she believes revoking Article 50 - the formal process to leave the EU - is the only satisfactory way out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49698800
This move, if passed is one huge gamble which could possibly do the Lib Dems irreversible damage.
This move, if passed is one huge gamble which could possibly do the Lib Dems irreversible damage.
Doubt it, more like boost their votes from those who have not stopped too think hang on that is not democracy.
I hear Sam the ex tory rebel has joined the LibDems, I bet the Tories will do a secret pack with Labour to insure all those defectors loose their seats. :shifty:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49703214
Jimbuna
09-15-19, 05:01 AM
No big loss really, he was one of the 21 who had the whip removed.
Funny how he cared enough so recently by entering into the leadership contest to replace May.
Jimbuna
09-15-19, 08:17 AM
This move, if passed is one huge gamble which could possibly do the Lib Dems irreversible damage.
Beginning to look like the electorate have an alternative choice at the next general election between the Brexit Party and the Liberal Democrats.
Makes a change from the two biggest parties and also raises the possibility of a coalition....interesting times ahead.
The Liberal Democrats have pledged to cancel Brexit if they come to power at the next general election.
Members voted for the new policy at their party conference in Bournemouth by an overwhelming majority.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49706643
^Well there you have it folks they DON'T work for us, they don't believe in democracy and to hell with the people. Proof of another bloody unfit party that should be binned along with Conservatives & Labour.
The time has come wake up people you are being told what to do by these little fascists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM
Jimbuna
09-16-19, 04:52 AM
Only two who have consistently stood for Brexit are Boris and Nigel.
Heaven help us.
Any one catch this.....
Guy Verhofstadt on the world’s ‘empires'
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/watch-guy-verhofstadt-on-the-worlds-empires/
Yes the so called LIberals embraced the EU EMPIRE and they got a bloody cheek to say we are Democrats! :nope:
Catfish
09-16-19, 06:48 AM
^ quite clear then, Britain will become an empire again and defend itself against China, Russia and the US :O:
Jimbuna
09-16-19, 08:19 AM
^ quite clear then, Britain will become an empire again and defend itself against China, Russia and the US :O:
Careful what you wish for Kai. Some are still able to put up at least a token resistance :03:
Jimbuna
09-16-19, 08:22 AM
The UK has yet to come forward with a solution to replace the backstop, says the European Commission. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49709430
Now this I can believe and I'm of the opinion both sides are more concerned on who will be blamed when no deal can be agreed.
Jimbuna
09-16-19, 08:45 AM
Any one catch this.....
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/watch-guy-verhofstadt-on-the-worlds-empires/
Yes the so called LIberals embraced the EU EMPIRE and they got a bloody cheek to say we are Democrats! :nope:
Best I don't post what I think of the guy but needless to say, he picked his audience well.
Hey Sky what do you think of that speech?
Back to the liberal black shirts I am amazed at what they done, all along they been calling for a second referendum and now decide stuff democracy cancel Brexit. This is not democracy which clearly they have abandoned what next from these black shirts.
Rather short sighted of Guy, Since the EU is technically an empire too.
And what happens to ALL empires eventually?
Nations on the other hand, tend to survive because they are bound by much more than just their politicians, law makers and bankers.
Take those three things away from the EU and what's left exactly?
:k_confused:
Jimbuna
09-17-19, 05:12 AM
If the prime minister's team and the government machine of a small country can't agree happily on arrangements for a press conference, then it doesn't exactly feel like anyone is in the mood to edge a little bit closer to a Brexit deal.
"Podiumgate", as it has inevitably been labelled, immediately gave a pantomime distraction - complete with a booing crowd - to Monday's developments in the bigger Brexit story.
It's no secret that the Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel held the views that he was so happy to express.
He has gladly - and candidly - expressed on many occasions his sadness that the UK voted to leave, and his frustration with how UK governments have handled it so far.
But if what happened was an expression of the state of diplomacy between the UK and EU member states, then don't hold your breath for a breakthrough in understanding between the two sides that could lead us all to a new version of a Brexit deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49722762
What a farce to behold, I hear that the Google search engine crashed due to the huge demand from people trying to find out who Bettel is and where Luxembourg is or if it even exists :)
I think Steed will back me up on this, but we could use a 'No confidence' check box on our next GE ballot papers.
Jimbuna
09-17-19, 05:41 AM
'NONE OF THE ABOVE' would do for me.
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