UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

For your entertainment the LIVE link to the Supreme Court prorogation hearing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-49722759

https://i.postimg.cc/zvp0qxw6/tenor.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[STEED]

I think Steed will back me up on this, but we could use a 'No confidence' check box on our next GE ballot papers.
Of course but I would go further giving people a mid term vote on the government and if no confidence wins this triggers a general election and if the confidence vote wins then the government goes full term.

[Jimbuna]

Lib Dem Leader Jo Swinson really is a joke. Didn't like the referendum result. Admits that if a 2nd referendum favours Brexit she will ignore it. This doesn't seem Liberal or Democratic :nope:

[mapuc]

I may, once again been thinking wrong as I do a lot.

1. The only problem in the deal is this backstop the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

2. Northern Ireland is a part of Great Britain.

What if the other members of Great Britain "released" Northern Ireland

So it became a country of its own and no more a member of Great Britain and can decide if they want to be a state of their own and a member of EU and/or join Ireland

Markus

[Jimbuna]

^ You;re talking about the breakup of the Union and that would need, yes you guessed it...another separate referendum.

[mapuc]

Thank you Jim

I forgot that in my last post

The citizens in Northern Ireland has to vote in a referendum if they want to leave the Union or not.

Markus

[STEED]

Lib Dem Leader Jo Swinson really is a joke. Didn't like the referendum result. Admits that if a 2nd referendum favours Brexit she will ignore it. This doesn't seem Liberal or Democratic :nope:Once again the mighty STEED gets it right. :DL

Jo Swinson will be rebranding the Liberal logo to a Jackboot. Black shirts for all and snazzy armbands. :o

[Jimbuna]

Thank you Jim

I forgot that in my last post

The citizens in Northern Ireland has to vote in a referendum if they want to leave the Union or not.

Markus

That's right Markus, anyone wanting to leave the Union can only do so if conducting it through a referendum and the PM/Westminster is the one who must first give permission.

[Jimbuna]

The Polish ambassador to the UK has urged Poles to “seriously consider returning to your homeland” after Brexit.https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/polish-ambassador-to-the-uk-urges-poles-to-seriously-consider-returning-home-after-brexit/ar-AAHsCRz?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

Why?

"The rapidly growing economy of our country creates more and more opportunities for citizens for development and good living conditions in the country.

The lack of the above is precisely why they left their country in the first place.

[mapuc]

It looks like there is a calm right now

A oppressive calm before the awaited hurricane who are heading your way.

Markus

[Catfish]

^ I wonder what hurricane Boris will be like, in Beaufort..

[STEED]

I hear the nameless one is sitting on the fence so no change there.

Who is watching the supreme court case anyone? Everyone I know is sick and tired not able to tune into the news for news as this junk is dominating the agenda. I'm bloody sick of this garbage being milked by the BBC News and SKY. I'm not bloody watching RT sod that.

[skidman]

That's right Markus, anyone wanting to leave the Union can only do so if conducting it through a referendum and the PM/Westminster is the one who must first give permission.

Are You sure? Is a referendum on a united Ireland only possible by permission of the UK?

The Good Friday Agreement says:

CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES
1. The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:
(i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;
(ii) recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland;

[mapuc]

^ If I understand those fine words

The government in Northern Ireland can make a referendum and they don't have to ask London ?

Markus

[skidman]

I don't know Markus. But if the GFA puts the people of NI in a position that lets them control a possible unification process, the dependency on a permission by Westminster would render the whole agreement pointless.

The population shift towards a catholic majority in NI, the economic figures of NI compared to the republic and the missing subsidiary EU money after the Brexit has taken place will fuel the debate about NI leaving the UK. That's for sure.

[Onkel Neal]

Do we have a Canadian politics thread? Maybe we need one... (https://time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/)

:o:o:o:o Racism up north!
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/justin_trudeau_yearbook_05.jpg?w=800&quality=85

When asked if he thought the photograph was racist, he said, “Yes it was. I didn’t consider it racist at the time, but now we know better.”

Now we know better. :)

[ikalugin]

North Americans are racialisation of everything heh.

[Catfish]

Rather short sighted of Guy, Since the EU is technically an empire too.
And what happens to ALL empires eventually?
Nations on the other hand, tend to survive because they are bound by much more than just their politicians, law makers and bankers.
Take those three things away from the EU and what's left exactly?
:k_confused:
I do not see how Verhofstaedt's comment can be so misunderstood. Be careful what happens when a single country that is not America or China negotiates with the world's other trade 'empires'. It was probably unwise to call them 'empires', but he meant China, the US and Russia, not Europe. He just stated that it is easier to negotiate as a united bloc with those trade 'empires'.
But it is perfectly clear what he meant, and he is of course right.

[Catfish]

:o:o:o:o Racism up north!
[...] Now we know better. :)
:D Oh yes... maybe it would be better for all Africans to paint themselves white, so there can be no discrimination.. oh wait ... i guess it is better if all humans paint themselves blue!

(Next: The light blues in front of the bus, the dark blues...)

[JU_88]

I do not see how Verhofstaedt's comment can be so misunderstood. Be careful what happens when a single country that is not America or China negotiates with the world's other trade 'empires'. It was probably unwise to call them 'empires', but he meant China, the US and Russia, not Europe. He just stated that it is easier to negotiate as a united bloc with those trade 'empires'.
But it is perfectly clear what he meant, and he is of course right.

Hmm And I don't know how the EU project and its objectives can be so misunderstood (when they are so clearly laid out). the EU as mere trading bloc was only the very first stage of its existence. Few have any real problem with that part of it.

Definition of empire (Entry 1 of 2)
1a(1): a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority
especially : one having an emperor as chief of state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNPpmIFuK0

:hmmm:

Its very simple, Empires/Institutions/Unions/call them what you will) which plan for virtually unlimited expansion (like the EU) All go 'pop' an some point.
Ill say again, Nations have only survive because they are held together by language, culture and history - Not by lawmakers, politicians and economics. The EU only has the latter 3 to prop it up.

[ikalugin]

US, Russia, China and India are still there, though we did shrink some ways in the past three decades.

And this is his point I think - he seems to desire to form EU into a proper sovereign (con?)federative state out of nation-states of Europe, not just an alliance or trade block.

[JU_88]

That is their desire eventually. Though i doubt it will ever be fully realised. Far too ambitious and too many obsticals.
..... And thank god for that, because it would be terrible system of government.

If the Eu was a games publisher it would be EA.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson has 12 days to set out his Brexit plans to the EU, according to Finland's prime minister.

Antti Rinne said he and French President Emmanuel Macron agreed the UK needed to produce the proposals in writing by the end of September, adding if not, "then it's over".

Finland currently holds the EU's rotating presidency.

A Downing Street source said: "We will continue negotiating and put forward proposals at the appropriate time."

Mr Johnson has said a deal is possible at a crucial summit of EU leaders on 17 October, but he has insisted Brexit will happen by the 31 October deadline, even if a deal is not agreed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49749465

Not long to go then.

Boris needs to put up or shut up.

I'm still of the opinion we will not leave but like so many others I am also sick and tired of this whole mess.

[STEED]

Not long to go then.

Boris needs to put up or shut up.

I'm still of the opinion we will not leave but like so many others I am also sick and tired of this whole mess.

Welcome to the club jim you will find beer and doughnuts on the table and a punch bag for the stress, later on today to calm you there will be a selection of comedy shows. :DL


Just in....

Psycho Dominick has told the Finland's PM to BLEEP OFF.

[STEED]

David Cameron asked the Queen for help in heading off Scottish independence after a poll before the 2014 referendum suggested a lead for those wanting to leave the union.https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-wanted-the-queens-help-to-stop-scottish-independence-11813572

Are yes I recall the mad dash back to Scotland to prevent Scottish independence. This will give the old fish wife ammo. Doggy Dave you do realise what you have done by telling the world don't you. Conversations between the PM and the Queen are strictly private.

[Jimbuna]

Confidential documents that "reflect the ideas the UK has put forward" on Brexit have been shared with the EU, the UK government says.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49753413

It shouldn't be long before the contents are leaked.

[JU_88]

The Eu as given Boris 12 days to come up with a Brexit plan.
Even though I'm not big fan of the EU, I really do sympathize with their lack of patience with us at this point.

Boris will no doubt be'll be like the schoolkid who did his homework on the bus, the day it was due to be handed in.
3 years they've had.

[Jimbuna]

I reckon we're in the 'protect us from blame' game now.

Nobody wants to carry the can when it goes pear shaped. Not that it hasn't already been like that for a very long time now.

[Catfish]

It shouldn't be long before the contents are leaked.
I doubt a leak is worth it. The uk government called them 'non-papers', another smoke screen to pretend Johnson does all he can for a deal.

While 'all that he can' is maybe the problem :haha:

[Jimbuna]

Well, either way we'll know soon enough.

The Supreme Court decision is due early next week.

[STEED]

Well, either way we'll know soon enough.

The Supreme Court decision is due early next week.
Who cares it's all tripe, it's just a game too them. There all farting around like a load of headless chicken's trying to make out how important they are. Too sum up the gravy train.

[Catfish]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-summit/eu-wary-of-brexit-crash-landing-at-high-stakes-october-summit-idUKKBN1W42HH

[STEED]

Do we have a Canadian politics thread?

Nope how about this idea call it The Rest of the world politics. :03:

[STEED]

Conservative Party targets over-45s with Facebook Brexit adshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49727121

Another good reason not to do social media. :haha::haha:



UK in EU talks
Just imagine Psycho Dominick doing that.....BLEEP YOU WE'RE BLEEPING LEAVING YOU BLEEPING BLEEPS. :har: :har: :har:

[Jimbuna]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-summit/eu-wary-of-brexit-crash-landing-at-high-stakes-october-summit-idUKKBN1W42HH

Sounds fair and balanced Kai :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay is to hold talks with the EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, later.

The Brussels meeting follows European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker saying a new Brexit deal could still be reached before 31 October.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49764546

Hopefully one of them might pull a rabbit out of the hat but I somehow doubt it.

[JU_88]

Nah it will be big a bloody mess. This is Boris we're talking about. :)

[Jimbuna]

UKIP has struggled badly since helping to secure a leave vote in the 2016 EU referendum.

Earlier this week the party's newly-elected UK leader, Richard Braine, said he would not be attending the conference due to "low ticket sales".

Party chair Kirstan Herriot described the decision as "an insult".

Having come out on top across the UK in the 2014 European elections, UKIP finished eighth this time around, losing all its MEPs as the Brexit Party - led by former UKIP leader Nigel Farage - swept to victory, raising further questions about UKIP's future and relevance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-49754055

Looks like UKIP have had their day.

Labour MP Harriet Harman says she will "not back down" in the race to replace John Bercow as Commons Speaker, despite objections from her local party.

Members in Camberwell and Peckham, London, voted to urge her to pull out, and hinted they could run a candidate against her at the next election.

But the ex-Labour deputy leader said her devotion to her constituency would be "unshakeable" if she became Speaker.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49769007

Obviously determined to drink from the poisoned chalice.

[STEED]

Hopefully one of them might pull a rabbit out of the hat but I somehow doubt it.

Nah it will be big a bloody mess. This is Boris we're talking about. :)
Bang on a big bloody stinking rotten mess, jim still has little hope the rest of us have none what so ever. :03:

[STEED]

Looks like UKIP have had their day.

They were finished the second Nigel and the sensible ones left leaving it to the right wing thugs and trash. Like the BNP they just can not get it though their cave man heads their day is over, time to close up shop and shut the shutters.

[Catfish]

[…] Nigel and the sensible ones […]
:haha:
That should be a rock band Name :hmmm:

[STEED]

I hear the nameless one has kicked the can down the road on the latest hoohar in labour.



:haha:
That should be a rock band Name :hmmm:

You would rather see them than the UKIP SLIME EXTREME RIGHT WING SCUMBAGS.......Oh I'm getting carried away there.

[Jimbuna]

:haha:
That should be a rock band Name :hmmm:

:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has quashed a motion at his party conference to oust his deputy, Tom Watson, by abolishing the position.

Mr Corbyn suggested the role should be reviewed instead, and was backed by the ruling National Executive Committee, a Labour source said.

A group of Labour MPs had urged the NEC to avoid an "internal civil war" when it should be preparing for an election.

Mr Watson called the move to oust him a "sectarian attack" on a "broad church". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/49781152

This is what happens when you don't toe the Momentum line.

[STEED]

This is what happens when you don't toe the Momentum line. They will rule 100% one day. :03:

[Jimbuna]

They will rule 100% one day. :03:

I doubt it but they will eventually control all policy making mechanisms.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson will try to convince key EU leaders that the UK is developing a workable plan for the Irish border after Brexit, when he meets them in the margins of the United Nations general assembly in New York.

As well as face-to-face talks with Donald Trump – his first meeting with the US president on American soil since becoming prime minister – Mr Johnson will hold discussions with Germany’s Angela Merkel, French president Emmanuel Macron, Irish premier Leo Varadkar and European Council president Donald Tusk. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-tries-to-convince-eu-leaders-he-has-workable-brexit-plan-after-brussels-rebuffs-backstop-request/ar-AAHBvIR?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

This will most definitely be his toughest meeting since coming into office.

[STEED]

What Plan Bojo?


I doubt it but they will eventually control all policy making mechanisms.
Rule as in control of the labour party, i doubt they would get in government with those thugs running the party.

[Jimbuna]

The unions still hold the key to the balance of power but Momentum is gradually closing the advantage.

[STEED]

Former prime minister David Cameron has warned Boris Johnson that breaking the law "is not a good idea" as the Brexit deadline approaches
https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-warns-pm-breaking-the-law-over-brexit-is-not-a-good-idea-11816585

Why is dave in the shed getting worried we are not going to crash out because we are not leaving. Bojo the pudding is weak he makes jam roly poly look hard.

[Jimbuna]

Now this really did make me laugh, I never miss an airing of what is one of my top three tv choices and clearly remember the show in question.

Diane Abbott can't help but making a fool of herself almost every time she speaks :nope:

Diane Abbott has criticised Question Time host Fiona Bruce following an appearance on the BBC show earlier this year.

Speaking to a Morning Star fringe event at the Labour Party conference, Abbott said she believes former host David Dimbleby “was fairer” than current presenter Ms Bruce.

Labour lodged a complaint against the BBC after the shadow home secretary said she was treated unfairly on the programme in January.

At the time, Abbott said she was repeatedly interrupted, with Bruce stepping in to correct her, wrongly, over the latest Labour polling figures.

The BBC has since acknowledged Abbott was right about the polling figures, but Labour said it wants an on-air apology.

At the fringe event – which was entitled “The Media War on Labour” – the audience booed and hissed after Abbott said: “I had an interesting experience with Fiona Bruce and Question Time.”

The senior Labour MP said she had been on Question Time with its previous presenters Robin Day and David Dimbleby.

She added: “I did it under Robin Day, that was a long time ago now. I did it under David Dimbleby very regularly.

“But David Dimbleby was fairer, in my opinion, than Fiona Bruce, and David Dimbleby did not wind up the audience against me before the programme went on air.

“And I have to say Fiona Bruce has yet to apologise.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/diane-abbott-says-bbcs-fiona-bruce-still-to-apologise-over-question-time-row/ar-AAHDTXw?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Jimbuna]

Mr Corbyn was dealt a blow on Saturday when it emerged one of his aides, head of policy Andrew Fisher, revealed he will quit his post by the end of the year.

He said he wanted "to spend more time with his young family", but the Sunday Times claims he warned Mr Corbyn would not win the next general election and criticised the leader's office "lack of professionalism, competence and human decency". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49786833

Looks like someone has woken up and smelled the coffee at last.

I had an interesting telephone conversation last night with an ex-colleague who is at the Labour Party Conference. They inform me that despite the fact Momentum continue to support Steptoe, there is a lot of behind the scenes work being undertaken to source a suitable far left wing successor to Steptoe when he eventually steps down for whatever reason.

Momentum enjoy a strong position in the Labour Party after decades of trying and are looking to cement and maintain that position long into the future.

I doubt the UK electorate will ever be like minded.

[STEED]

What party leaders we have, first up Bojo the sponge cake followed by the nameless one who talks to terrorists organisations and finally Adolf Swinson and her un-democrastic party. How the heck can we trust these three morons, I for one will never trust any of them. And what makes this worst is the fact in their party's no one can replace them! Every one of them is unfit no wonder this country is breaking apart, I see no hope at all.

[JU_88]

Well the good news is -
Each party now has a clear-ish and unique position on Brexit.

Lib Dem:No Brexit
Labour: Soft Brexit or No Brexit
Cons: Soft Brexit or Hard Brexit
BP: Hard Brexit.

The bad news is, they will all make a pigs ear out of it.
And in reality an election would likely have 1 of 2 out comes

Con/BP coalition = Hard Brexit
LibDem/Lab coalition = No brexit.

[Skybird]

Well the good news is -

And in reality an election would likely have 1 of 2 out comes

Con/BP coalition = Hard Brexit
LibDem/Lab coalition = No brexit.

You forgot to mention possible scenario number three: "the way of the optimistic and well-meaning". :D

[Jimbuna]

You forgot to mention possible scenario number three: "the way of the optimistic and well-meaning". :D

No such thing exists :03:

[STEED]

Well the good news is -
Each party now has a clear-ish and unique position on Brexit.

Lib Dem:No Brexit
Labour: Soft Brexit or No Brexit
Cons: Soft Brexit or Hard Brexit
BP: Hard Brexit.

The bad news is, they will all make a pigs ear out of it.
And in reality an election would likely have 1 of 2 out comes

Con/BP coalition = Hard Brexit
LibDem/Lab coalition = No brexit.

I am not to sure about that, don't forget the SNP factor and they are on the rise again. They could wipe out the cons and lab causing big problems for those party's. As for BP under the voting system we got they would be lucky to get five seats, the cons/lab are divided with deep internal problems as for the libs riding rush shot over democracy may get stung in the arse.

Let us not forget the voters and a few I know have said no they are not voting this time as they have no faith in any party sorting this brexit mess out.

[Jimbuna]

Well the good news is -
Each party now has a clear-ish and unique position on Brexit.

Lib Dem:No Brexit
Labour: Soft Brexit or No Brexit
Cons: Soft Brexit or Hard Brexit
BP: Hard Brexit.

The bad news is, they will all make a pigs ear out of it.
And in reality an election would likely have 1 of 2 out comes

Con/BP coalition = Hard Brexit
LibDem/Lab coalition = No brexit.

Not quite Francis, not quite but could be pretty close as I see my old union Unison has decided to back the Remain option.

I'm a little disappointed tbh but at least it would give Steptoe a bloody nose.

Jeremy Corbyn faces a battle over Labour's Brexit policy later as members choose between two competing strategies at the party's annual conference.

They will decide whether Labour should explicitly back Remain in any future referendum, or adopt Mr Corbyn's stance of staying neutral until a later date.

Unison has broken ranks with other unions to back the Remain motion.

The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said this could "shift the balance" and increase the chance of Mr Corbyn being defeated.

With unions controlling half of the votes at the conference, their position is vital. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49789938

[JU_88]

Forgot about the SNP, they are basically Libdems as far a brexit goes.
Yeah I think its pretty clear that its the end of the road for Corncob, but i think who and what follows could be far worse.

*Spell check insists on correcting 'Corbyn' to 'Corncob', so I'm finally giving in.*

[STEED]

Popcorn time shadow chancellor speech is on.

:hmmm: Have I got enough popcorn. :hmmm:


GET ON WITH IT YOU FART!

[Jimbuna]

Forgot about the SNP, they are basically Libdems as far a brexit goes.
Yeah I think its pretty clear that its the end of the road for Corncob, but i think who and what follows could be far worse.

*Spell check insists on correcting 'Corbyn' to 'Corncob', so I'm finally giving in.*

Not ten minutes old via email.

Dear Jim,

We're two days deep into an incredible conference. The mood here is electric! Already we've heard about Labour's exciting new pledges:

✅ A cleaner, greener future, with 10 million trees planted in a carbon-neutral NHS, plus a national network of electric car charge points

✅ An NHS that's free for all, with all prescription charges scrapped

✅ A stride forward for equal workplaces, with time off for women going through the menopause

✅ Justice for the many, not just the privileged few, by restoring legal aid

The country has been brought to the brink of crisis by a decade of Tory cuts to public services alongside slashing taxes for the super-rich. We all know it doesn't have to be this way.

In just one term of Labour government, this could be the Britain that you live in. Jim, help make it a reality.

Conference has been brimming with exciting new policies, and enthusiastic people raring to start the fight ahead. We are half a million strong. Now is the time to join Labour.

Do you want me to forward them your email Francis? :)

:03:

[STEED]

Popcorn time shadow chancellor speech is on.



Labour will end in work poverty in their first term in office....BS :har:
Build more houses...BS:har:

The amount of BS being said shows how desperate they are for your vote.



Jim, I take it you noted the word COULD as in BS in that email.

[Jimbuna]

For someone purportedly anti politics you are showing quite an intense infatuation for the subject :hmmm:

[STEED]

For someone purportedly anti politics you are showing quite an intense infatuation for the subject :hmmm:

Got to keep eye on the ball jim, someone has to keep an eye on these sceaming so and so's. The day I stop will be the day I passed out finding at long last there is a party out there I can vote for. :) :03:

:arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Well I'll believe you but I'm aware there are those who question such sentiments.

[STEED]

Rock on..:Kaleun_Wink:


This thread is good therapy...:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Jimbuna]

A ruling on the legality of Boris Johnson decision to suspend Parliament for five weeks will be announced by the Supreme Court on Tuesday at 10:30 BST.

https://i.postimg.cc/P5D02JD6/tenor.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[Jimbuna]

Jeremy Corbyn's policy on Brexit has triumphed at Labour conference, as members endorsed his stance to stay neutral while negotiating a new deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49789938

There you have it, all the proof that a couple of unions and Momentum really do run the Labour Party.

[STEED]

There you have it, all the proof that a couple of unions and Momentum really do run the Labour Party.

Now will you listen to me. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

Now will you listen to me. :haha:

To you? Are you joking? Momentum is less than five years old.

I was personally involved for over twenty years :nope:

[Jimbuna]

A ruling on the legality of Boris Johnson decision to suspend Parliament for five weeks will be announced by the Supreme Court on Tuesday at 10:30 BST.

https://i.postimg.cc/P5D02JD6/tenor.gif (https://postimages.org/)

Not long to go now and I'll go on record as saying I expect the government to win this one.

Either way it may well all kick off again though.

The highest court in the UK is making a historic ruling on whether Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament for five weeks was lawful.

Ministers say the suspension, or prorogation, is not a court matter, but critics argue it was intended to limit scrutiny of the PM's Brexit plans.

If the judgement - due at 10:30 BST - goes against Mr Johnson, Parliament could be reconvened immediately.

The government has said it will "abide by the ruling" of the Supreme Court.

But Mr Johnson - who is in New York for a UN climate conference - has refused to rule out seeking to prorogue Parliament for a second time if the ruling goes against him. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49805024

[Jimbuna]

UK PM Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament for five weeks was unlawful, Supreme Court rules. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49810261

WRONG!! :)

[STEED]

Bunch of Liberal judges what did anyone expect?

Hardline judges would have agreed with Bojo.

[Jimbuna]

The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land.

[STEED]

Nigel has tweeted Psycho Dominick must go as reported on SKY News, this I agree with.

[Jimbuna]

Your previous post was better suited in the movie section.

Stay on topic ya bugga! :03:

[STEED]

Your previous post was better suited in the movie section.

Stay on topic ya bugga! :03:

OK BIG BOSS. :03: :) :haha:

[STEED]

Parliment will be open tomorrow at 11:30am the Speaker of the House has said.

[Catfish]

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

This was of course Boris' intention :03:

[Jimbuna]

"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

This was of course Boris' intention :03:

Agreed :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Jeremy Corbyn is leading calls for Boris Johnson to resign after the Supreme Court ruled the PM's decision to suspend Parliament was unlawful.

The Labour leader said Mr Johnson should "consider his position" in a short statement to the party's conference in Brighton.

The SNP's Ian Blackford, speaking outside the High Court, said: "Boris Johnson must resign immediately." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49810679

Nothing beats stating the obvious but on this occasion I'd have to say 'No thanks'

[STEED]

Bojo has only one card left and that is to make a brexit deal but as we all know from the EU end they have said talks what talks. It is game over for Bojo time to call for a general election it's the only way he can stay leader of the Tories for now.

[Jimbuna]

Steptoe and his gang aren't as confident about winning an election as some of them would have you believe.

The vote over remaining or otherwise at conference yesterday has potentially made many safe seats into marginal ones.

[STEED]

The general election will be a high risk gamble for all party's. I think we will end up with another hung parliament and the mess will continual, popcorn anyone?

[Skybird]

Agreed :yep:
As I see it, prorogation always has this intention and potential to be used for this purpose, and no other. I wonder why for this long time nobody complained, but now with stakes being high - suddenly they realise it.


Therefore, I disagree with the court, but I expected nothing else, since this judge has decided against Brexit ambitions and pro EU before. But as I see it, this case is no issue for a court ruling at all. The court hearing should not have even taken place. And obviously there are judges in lower courts that agree with that and declared right that: that their court was to stay out of political things.



If the Constitutional Court in Germany can make a joke of itself so many times, then why not the British highest court as well. After all, they know all too well whose hand it is that feeds them.

[STEED]

All the opposition calling for Bojo to resign will not wash with him. I bet he will stay put, bet MayBot is laughing all the way.

JUST IN..

Bojo is staying put, so the call will now have to be table a motion against him, over to the opposition it's your move.


Can not see much more today so we can all stand down to relax mode.

[MGR1]

A few observations:


1: The Lib Dem decison about not calling another EU Ref:

This simplifies their position in Scotland as they've always maintained that there should not be another Scottish Indyref. Saying yes to an EU referendum was undercutting their position on Scottish Independence.

Swinson is Scottish, after all.

2: Todays legal ruling:

Obviously a case of "the law is a horse/donkey hybrid" when it disagrees with your personal viewpoint.

Tough - we are all subject to the Law, even the Prime Minister.

3: This current mess wouldn't be so bad if, following the EU Referendum result, the Conservatives had decided to make the process a cross party effort rather than a Tory only affair.

You can only move forward when you build a consensus across society. If you can't, or won't, do that then your screwed.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Point 3 is 100% down to May imho.

[Skybird]

Full broadside from a crew with a history in both Marxism and Libertarianism (according to German Wikipedia, whioch I consulted because the website was unknown to me). What a strange combo. :D


https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/24/a-tyranny-of-judges/

[em2nought]

Trump should start some lend-lease to the Brexit side. :D

[JU_88]

I think its fine the Libdems take their Forced Remain /scrap Article 50 stance,
Just as its fine for the Brexit Party to adopt the
No Deal & hard Brexit stance.
That kind of stance is actually quite ballsy and high risk, but it just makes it clearer for voters.

If either actually won a GE with parliamentary majority on that platform, then they would have a democratic mandate to do it to too.
Pretty unlikely in either case though.

[Jimbuna]

it just makes it clearer for voters

Precisely!!

No more excuses, the next general election will hopefully decide everything definitively.

[Jimbuna]

Lady Hale: Five things you need to know about the Supreme Court president.

No.5 being by far the most interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49812379

[Catfish]

Full broadside from a crew with a history in both Marxism and Libertarianism (according to German Wikipedia, whioch I consulted because the website was unknown to me). What a strange combo. :D

Marxism and libertarianism wow :)
Funded by the David Koch foundation, some good background:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/07/us-billionaires-hard-right-britain-spiked-magazine-charles-david-koch-foundation
Whatever it once was, it seems to be pretty right-wing now https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/spiked-magazine/

[Catfish]

Looks like OT here now, but the giant Cook Travels is bankrupt? :o
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-factbox/factbox-european-reaction-to-thomas-cook-bankruptcy-idUSKBN1W80V4
https://www.traveldailymedia.com/thomas-cook-goes-bankrupt-but-why/

[Jimbuna]

Looks like OT here now, but the giant Cook Travels is bankrupt? :o
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-factbox/factbox-european-reaction-to-thomas-cook-bankruptcy-idUSKBN1W80V4
https://www.traveldailymedia.com/thomas-cook-goes-bankrupt-but-why/

Closed yesterday morning Kai after failing to raise £200 million, the government having refused to bail them out for the short term.

Weird thing is it'll cost £600 million to repatriate everyone.

[Jimbuna]

Just in via email.

Dear Jim,

This is an extraordinary and precarious moment in our country's history.

A Prime Minister found to have acted illegally. A political party that protects the establishment, pretending to be anti-establishment. The born-to-rule Tories claiming to be the voice of the people.

Boris Johnson thinks he's above us all. He is not fit to be Prime Minister. This crisis can only be settled with a General Election.

The Labour government I lead will take on those who really run our country: the financial speculators, tax dodgers and big polluters. We will take them on so the real wealth creators, the people of this country, can have the jobs, services and futures they deserve.

It's Labour that will put more money in your pocket, rather than lining the pockets of the multi-millionaires.

Boris Johnson and his wealthy friends are not only on the side of the establishment, they are the establishment. His party's election campaign will be swimming in cash. But we've got something Boris Johnson doesn't have: people. People in their hundreds of thousands from across Britain.

Today I'm asking you to take the next step. Don't sit on the sidelines while our country is taken for a ride by Boris Johnson and the super-rich. Hundreds of thousands of people are standing up to demand a country for the many – why not become one of them?

Jim, I want you to join the biggest people-powered campaign this country has ever seen. Will you become a member of the Labour Party now?

Real politics is about empowering people who don't have a lot of money, and don't have friends in high places, so they can take control of their lives. It's time we asked those at top to pay their fair share.

Labour is a democratic party that trusts the people.

Labour will redesign the system to serve public health not private wealth. We will bring rail, mail, water and the national grid into public ownership so these services are run for the public, not for profit. We will scrap zero-hours contracts and pay a £10 living wage. It's time we started building a country fit for the next generation.

When Labour wins, the nurse wins. The pensioner wins. The student wins, the office worker wins, and the engineer wins. We all win.

I will be – I promise you this – a very different kind of Prime Minister. I want to put the government on your side. Our philosophy is to empower people, not just to invest power in politicians.

The tide is turning. Together we'll take on the privileged and put the people into power.

Thank you.

Signed, Jeremy Corbyn MP, Leader of the Labour Party

Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party

Wouldn't you think someone would be checking the membership details and come to the obvious conclusion that I left the party the day after Steptoe was elected? :nope:

[Catfish]

Closed yesterday morning Kai after failing to raise £200 million, the government having refused to bail them out for the short term.
Weird thing is it'll cost £600 million to repatriate everyone.

As if England and the UK hadn't already enough going on at this time :nope:

[JU_88]

Oh god, when hear about political conspiracies of the 'Koch brothers' or 'George Soros', that's when I know its usually time to tune out.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/016/146/eird-al-yankovic-tin-foil-hat-160x160.png

[Jimbuna]

The mad house otherwise known as Parliament reopens today and I should imagine the pressure on the PM will be at an unprecedented level,

Surely the only option now is for a general election to be carried out so the people can decide on our next course of action.

[Skybird]

Closed yesterday morning Kai after failing to raise £200 million, the government having refused to bail them out for the short term.


Part of market economy is that unfit competitors have the freedom to be removed from the market. Thats keeps the market healthy, the competitors strong, and the number of socalled zombies low. I wish the Germans would have done like your govenrment did. But ther German government decided to take 380 from the tax payer'S pockets and throw it after Condor, not to piss voters. Thats is taking out that one quality that makes the market actually the "market": the competition. When nobody is allowed to lose anymore, there is no competition anymore, but its planned zombie-ism.

Economists say that a healthy national economic system can sustain to pull 5% of uncompetitive companies along with it. That was roughly the quota met in the EU zone before 2008. Today, this quota has risen to somewhere between 15 and 20%, depending on who you ask.

That translates into every 5th to 7th company and bank in the Eurozone today is a zombie and is unfit to live by its own competitive power and must be artificially held alive on tic, at the expense of the consumers and tax payers. Think of it: every fifth to every seventh! That is madness.

The zombie quota is constantly climbing, thanks to the knocked-out currency system.

[Skybird]

Oh look, German Thomas Cook today filed for insolvency, too. And quelle surprise - the demands are mounting that the govenrment should bail them out as well. Correction, I mean: the tax payer should bail them out.

[Jimbuna]

There are a growing number of complaints from the public that the competitors have raised their flight prices by as much as three fold in some cases.

That's very healthy for them but not so much the consumer/tax payer.

[STEED]

I'm liking the questions to the Attorney General, more so his answers he even threw in Monty python's dead parrot sketch. :har:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49827307/attorney-general-tells-mps-this-parliament-is-a-disgrace

[Skybird]

There are a growing number of complaints from the public that the competitors have raised their flight prices by as much as three fold in some cases.

That's very healthy for them but not so much the consumer/tax payer.
And why do they pay the prices if they do not like them? Answer: preference. Thats how the market competition ticks. Dangerous it becomes when there are monopolies on vital, essential goods and services. These dangerous conditions consumers must prevent already when they are forming up: by diversifying their own consumer behaviour and buying decisions, and driving politicians and bankers into the sea who want to enforce them. To understand that, schools would need to teach this liberal economy model. But what do schools teach (if they touch upon economics at all)? Right, social(ist) "market" economy and that it is socially fair to bail foul apples out.

Many people, they said on TV, booked their flights with Condor and Thomas Cook even at times when it was almost clear the compoany would collapse, where at high risk. They hoped, becaseu the hope for a nice holiday is so powerful an agent to chnage reality... Well, some people really ask for it.

Those who now get returned on state'S costs, shoulkd have their tickets checked, and if they are found to have booked within a certain time period imminent to the critical days, one or two dayys before Cook announced they do no longer sell anything, they should need to pay the costs for their state-operated rescue back.

Really. I leaves me speechless in some cases how blindly people booked with desaster being imminent. If your preference is such and leaves you starry-eyed, okay, your right to do so. But also: you are rerpsnmsi89bole for your decvisions. Not the others.

I am not talking about the vast majority of people who booked months in advance. I am talking about the obviously stupid ones.

[Jimbuna]

The PM is due to speak at approximately 4.30 pm so that should prove interesting :hmmm:

Most interesting for me though was seeing my old friend David Miliband (former Foreign Secretary) being interviewed in New York on the Sky News Kay Burley Show during which he couldn't resist in stating that the UK not only needed a strong government but also a strong opposition :)

[Jimbuna]

Far too much went on today to mention it all but it is all there in the link below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49827803

Highly entertaining but worrying at the same time.

[STEED]

So Bojo is in the dog house for his comments and the government or so using loaded words like surrender. I watched a modest amount of it and to be honest the lot of them were acting like kids, for me this is just more proof none of them are fit to vote for.

I AM SO GLAD I DO NOT VOTE FOR ANY OF THESE SHAMEFUL DISGRACEFUL PARTY'S.

[Jimbuna]

The Brexit debate has descended into a "bear pit of polarisation" the husband of the murdered MP Jo Cox has said.

Brendan Cox also said Boris Johnson was "sloppy" in saying the best way to honour the late MP was to get "Brexit done", but he was not "an evil man".

The PM had angered many MPs by using words such as "surrender" but Tory Chairman James Cleverly said the accusations were "deeply unfair".

Speaker John Bercow said the culture in the Commons had been "toxic".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49834301

Both sides are equally culpable.

[STEED]

I bet Psycho Dominick is having a good laugh today as he hates politicians, makes me wonder how much he had a hand in that sham last night. I have not checked all the media reporting but what I have they were reporting more of Bojo and yet I clearly heard from the labour benches...liar, is that really the way to conduct themselves.

And now today watching the news their all saying sorry and we must improve ourselves....yea yea yea yea what a load of BS we all know it will happen again.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/SRhY4LdT/Untitled.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[STEED]

Watching these bunch of hippocrits now laying into social media while they say we are going to improve our standard's l find laughable. What next a group hug and toast marshmallows while having a sing a long....please no thanks.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/TwH27dbd/69906520-2381188888595809-5061973765584322560-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[STEED]

:har: :har: :up:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/rwBrgLW2/71290067-2338335989548867-2266868762277838848-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Jimbuna]

MPs have rejected the government's request for a three-day recess while the Conservatives stage their annual party conference.

They voted 306 to 289 to reject the motion asking for the Commons to adjourn until Thursday next week.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49842880

Hardly surprising but guess who just had theirs?

[STEED]

Dominic Cummings: Anger at MPs 'not surprising', PM's adviser sayshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49847304

What anger? I am well pass that and laughing at this shambles. :haha:

Meanwhile....even the public can act like morron's.

Jess Phillips: Man held after 'smacking windows' of MP's office and shouting 'fascist'https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-man-held-after-smacking-windows-of-mps-office-and-shouting-fascist-11820162

What a stupid morron calling her that, oh come on as if she ever will be...not.

[Jimbuna]

Anyone watching Question Time on tv last night may have had their attention drawn to the possibility of the PM passing an ordinance procedure (look it up) to force Brexit through.

Very crafty imho.

[STEED]

Yea its on the news Psycho Dominick hinted at it, John Major spoke about it and the nameless one will act on it next week if that was what he was talking about.

[STEED]

No-deal Brexit will be Britain's fault, says EU chief Jean-Claude Junckerhttps://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-will-be-britains-fault-says-eu-chief-jean-claude-juncker-11820520

RUBBISH YOU SHOULD TAKE SOME OF THE RESPONSIBILITY!

[Jimbuna]

Whose John Mayor? :hmmm:

[STEED]

Dominic Cummings: PM's right-hand man says MP abuse will cease if they 'respect' Brexit votehttps://news.sky.com/story/dominic-cummings-pms-right-hand-man-says-mp-abuse-will-cease-if-they-respect-brexit-vote-11820428

Really?..I can not see that happening at all, in fact I can see the whole country going up in smoke if we crash out.

[Jimbuna]

I'd be more concerned about the possibility of civil unrest.

[STEED]

That was what I was getting at jim, just using the style of the press. :03:

[Jimbuna]

The SNP has given its most explicit suggestion yet that it could back a time-limited government led by Jeremy Corbyn to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

Party leader Nicola Sturgeon said she "agreed" installing the Labour leader or "someone else" after a vote of no confidence in Boris Johnson was the only" failsafe" option. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49850484

Nothing like stirring the pot eh Nicola?

[Jimbuna]

So what is the PM to do next?

I hear instead he might call again for a general election, framing it as a way to finally put an end to this zombie parliament and break the deadlock. MPs will refuse, saying they will do no such thing until Mr Johnson agrees to a Brexit extension. He knows such a concession would amount to political suicide in an election where Nigel Farage's Brexit Party is breathing down his neck. He won't do it. We grind on.

[STEED]

Nothing like stirring the pot eh Nicola?She would only do that if she can grab him by the balls and demand this and that.

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fsozi ales%2Fifw-praesident-zu-brexit-london-gibt-praktisch-alle-truempfe-aus-der-hand-a-1289015.html

Both side's key interests soberly and fairly reminded of. The EU however is completely refusing a British right for this own key interest. It wants it all, a submissive and obedient vasall.

Good to hear that some sane, reasonable minds are still out there, even if they cannot do anything. If a pro-EU and German economists admits in a newspaper that the Backstop deal would be a bad deal for the UK, it really is a confession of what #### Theresa May wanted to force down the Brits' throat.

Trump will demand the UK to make many concessions and payments if it wants to get a special deal with the US after a Brexit. Trump is no friend of the UK, let nobody wrongly assume that for even one minute. Trump is friend only to himself. He will exploit the British dependency to the max.

[STEED]

Boris Johnson referred to police watchdog over US businesswoman linkshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49859321

Boris Johnson super crook
Read all about the criminal mastermind Boris and his criminal dealings...

Now that is a headline, don't you miss the 1980's. :haha:


Universal credit: Labour pledges to scrap welfare schemehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49855479

Oh really way to go just throw billions of pounds down the drain typical labour thinking, wast more money scrapping it .

[Jimbuna]

Rumour has it there could be a no-confidence vote early next week but first, the opposition need to pick an interim PM and the Lib Dems appear to be the stumbling block because they aren't supportive of Steptoe taking overall control.

The above also largely depends on the Tory rebels supporting the vote.

[Jimbuna]

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage has warned Prime Minister Boris Johnson not to return from Brussels with Theresa May's "reheated deal".

At a rally in London, he said the Tories will "lose votes to us" in "huge numbers" when voters "realise nothing has changed" if they keep that deal.

He then criticised Labour's "policy of uncontrolled mass immigration".

The party also unveiled some policy plans, but little detail, including scrapping HS2 and inheritance tax.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49859818

I'm genuinely surprised they have any other policy plans other than Brexit :hmmm:

[STEED]

I'm genuinely surprised they have any other policy plans other than Brexit :hmmm:

I would say that about the whole bloody useless lot of them, all clueless dimwits. :haha:

[STEED]

Rumour has it there could be a no-confidence vote early next week

Looks like it may be on...:hmmm:

This will be a close one as this will come down to the tory rebels. I suspect the LibDems will not take part in the vote knowing the nameless one could take over.

A vote of no confidence in the government aimed at replacing Boris Johnson as prime minister could be held next week, a senior SNP MP has said.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49863544

[Jimbuna]

Police are investigating after Nigel Farage told an audience in Newport "we'll take the knife" to civil servants after Brexit.

Dozens of complaints have been made to Gwent Police about comments by Brexit Party leader Mr Farage made at an event at the Neon Theatre in the city, believed to have been last Saturday.

In a video recorded at the gathering, Mr Farage says: "And when the president of the port of Calais and the boss of the port of Dover tell you they're 100% ready for Brexit in whatever form it comes, I suggest we listen to them and not the overpaid pen pushers in Whitehall who are not doing an neutral job.

"And once Brexit's done, we'll take the knife to them. Alright? Had enough of all of it. Had enough of all of it."
https://news.sky.com/story/police-investigate-nigel-farage-vow-to-take-knife-to-pen-pushers-11821630

He must be competing against Boris for the title of who can be the most outspoken, surely.

[STEED]

Police are investigating after Nigel Farage told an audience in Newport "we'll take the knife" to civil servants after Brexit.

So bloody what! For flips sake he is not going to do that for real he is talking about reducing numbers if he ever was in a position to do that. The police should tell these people there are real crimes being committed and these silly complaints are tying up their time and resources.

I heard at work...I like to shoot the whole bloody lot of them. Should I report that remark? NO...Common sense is the correct thing.

[Jimbuna]

Precisely

[JU_88]

Same with Count Dankula and the Nazi pug, Jo Brand and the battery acid,
Both clearly just jokes, but police 'investigated them'.
What a time to be alive.
:k_confused:

[STEED]

Veteran Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge has said she is "disappointed" to be facing a reselection contest in her east London constituency.

Dame Margaret, who is Jewish, has been critical of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership and the party's response to complaints of anti-Semitism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49869114

Well well well don't tell me this has nothing to do with anti semitism because I'm not buying that for one second.



Police say they will not be taking further action over comments made by Nigel Farage in a speech to supporters.

Gwent Police said they received complaints from the public after a video on social media showed the Brexit Party leader saying "we'll take the knife" to civil servants.

In a tweet, Alliance Party MEP Naomi Long suggested the address in Newport was a "an incitement to violence".

Police said the comments did not constitute a criminal offence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49865706
NOW THIS WASTE OF POLICE TIME AND MONEY IS OVER CAN THE POLICE GET BACK TO CATCHING CRIMINALS OR DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER WASTEFUL COMPLAINT?

[Jimbuna]

Quite frankly, I'm surprised the matter isn't being investigated.

Should a loop job act on such comments and attack someone with a knife then say they were simply carrying out a suggestion made by someone they supported....I think the dirt would hit the fan in the national press.

[Jimbuna]

Well well well don't tell me this has nothing to do with anti semitism because I'm not buying that for one second.



The night of the long knives 21st century style.

[Jimbuna]

The government has pledged billions for hospital projects across England, at the start of the Conservative party conference.

The plans include a £2.7bn investment for six hospitals over five years.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49867376

The first hand in the poker game has been dealt and next would should see Steptoe coming in with an increased offer.

It's alright politicians making claims pre-election but they should accompany said claims with properly costed explanations of where the money is coming from.

[Jimbuna]

The chancellor has promised "a significant economic policy response" in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Sajid Javid did not give details, but the BBC's Norman Smith said it could mean tax cuts and reduced interest rates to help mitigate the impact.

Mr Javid is setting out plans for infrastructure investment on the second day of the Tory conference.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49872190

https://i.postimg.cc/501RfS56/giphy.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[Jimbuna]

Opposition party leaders will meet for further talks in Westminster today while the Conservatives are away at their conference in a bid to ensure Boris Johnson cannot push through a no-deal Brexit.

The leaders are expected to discuss a plan by Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson to force the Prime Minister to go to Brussels to seek another Brexit delay as early as this weekend.

Parliament has already passed the so-called Benn Act requiring him to request a further extension to the Article 50 withdrawal process if he cannot get a new agreement by October 19.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-latest-opposition-leaders-to-meet-again-to-discuss-stopping-no-deal-and-jo-swinsons-plan-to-ask-for-another-extension/ar-AAI2SLX?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

The tail is certainly now trying to wag the dog and all those onboard with what many will refer to as 'this treacherous lot' must surely reflect on the fact that all votes can be viewed publicly and will be remembered at the time of the next general election.

[Jimbuna]

The state pension could rise by an inflation-busting four per cent next April, which would make the elderly better off by hundreds of pounds a year.

Anyone receiving a full state pension will be £351 better off over the course of the year, with payments increasing from £168 to £175.35 a week.

Currently the state pension is protected by the triple lock, introduced in 2011 by the coalition government, which ensures it increases by at least the same rate as the cost of living.

With the lock the state pension rises either by two and a half per cent a year, the rate of inflation or average wage growth, whichever is highest.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/state-pension-could-rise-by-four-per-cent-next-year-putting-hundreds-more-in-the-pocket-of-britains-elderly/ar-AAI2TQj?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

With less than four year to go "bring it on" I say :smug:

[Jimbuna]

Chancellor Sajid Javid has pledged to raise the National Living Wage to £10.50 within the next five years.

He will also lower the age threshold for those who qualify from 25 to 21.

Speaking to a packed hall at the Tory Party Conference, Mr Javid said the policy would "help the next generation of go-getters to get ahead".

The current rate for over 25s is £8.21 - but the Living Wage Foundation says it should already be £9 across the UK and £10.55 for those in London.

Earlier this year, Labour pledged to raise the National Living Wage to £10 an hour in 2020 and to include all workers under 18 - who currently get a minimum wage of £4.35.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49881980

This is fast turning into a Dutch auction :)

[Jimbuna]

Theresa May broke her post-power silence today to declare she had a 'fantastic time' as prime minister and had no regrets from her political career.

The former leader, who was reduced to tears as she left Downing Street in July after being ousted by hardline Brexiteers, revealed she was thinking of penning her own version of events over the past three years.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/theresa-may-says-she-has-no-regrets-from-her-political-career-despite-being-forced-from-power-in-tears-over-brexit-saying-i-had-a-fantastic-time-as-she-breaks-her-post-power-silence-at-a-book-festival/ar-AAI4ovA?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

A 'fantastic time' eh?

Much more than many of us had then.

[Catfish]

This is fast turning into a Dutch auction :)
It also seems there is a lot of dutch courage when it comes to the brexiters ideas.

[Jimbuna]

It also seems there is a lot of dutch courage when it comes to the brexiters ideas.

Apparently so :yep:

[STEED]

A 'fantastic time' eh?

Much more than many of us had then.
Sounds like MayBot has very selective memory....

I won

Great lunches

Great meetings

THE FOLLOWING AS BEEN DELETED

Left office and now laughing at that big spanner Bojo. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

The issue of the Irish border - and how to keep it free from border checks when it becomes the frontier between the UK and the EU - has been a key sticking point in Brexit negotiations.

The current government says the solution reached by the EU and Theresa May, the backstop, is unacceptable and an alternative to it must be found.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49890199

Everything hinges on the one thing neither side are prepared to give ground on.

[STEED]

Bojo I do not believe we will leave the EU on Oct 31st as your working majority is minus meaning you and the boys are just taking up space. Get this bloody election under way and if it means you shoot down the government do it.

[STEED]

GET THE BEER AND POPCORN OUT IT'S GOING TO BE A LAUGH AT PMQ'S WEDNESDAY....:har: :har:


Diane Abbott is to stand in for Jeremy Corbyn at Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49897949

[Jimbuna]

Bojo I do not believe we will leave the EU on Oct 31st as your working majority is minus meaning you and the boys are just taking up space. Get this bloody election under way and if it means you shoot down the government do it.

It's the opposition who are preventing a general election. I was of the understanding you listened to the news down there.

[Jimbuna]

GET THE BEER AND POPCORN OUT IT'S GOING TO BE A LAUGH AT PMQ'S WEDNESDAY....:har: :har:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49897949

Making the announcement, Mr Corbyn tweeted: "This #BlackHistoryMonth we're inspired by the struggles of black campaigners, including the first black MPs elected in 1987.

"Tomorrow one of those pioneering MPs, a child of the Windrush Generation, Diane Abbott, will be the first black person to represent their party at #PMQs."

Might have had more meaning/impact if a Jewish person had been selected.

https://i.postimg.cc/T2Bb0MMJ/70774494-2400623566863110-1999316398798536704-n.jpg (https://postimg.cc/3WCWrqwk)

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson will set out details of his "final" negotiating offer to the EU on Wednesday in pursuit of a "fair and reasonable" Brexit compromise.

The prime minister will address the Tory conference before submitting new proposals, intended to form the legal text of a new Brexit deal, to Brussels.

Only by leaving the EU on 31 October can the UK "move on", he will argue.

Tory Chairman James Cleverly said the UK had been "flexible and pragmatic", and now the EU must be the same.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49894100

Hopefully the full details will be set out and we will finally see just what cannot be agreed on.

[Catfish]

Yesterday I hear in the radio that Johnson is on a Tory political convention in Manchester, and had to go back to London if the House of Commons decided so.

So the brexit-backing Tories (or so they said) would meet just of all in the city that virtually invented capitalism, and which has recently been rebuilt with EU professional restoring help, and EU money.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/things-eu-done-for-manchester-11020085

[STEED]

It's the opposition who are preventing a general election. I was of the understanding you listened to the news down there.That fact we are all aware of I was referring he should abstain from his own vote of no confidence in his own government after all Bojo keeps banging on about it. Fail that means he is chicken just like the wet paper bags of the opposition.

This bloody mess is thanks to Dave and Nick, the fix term parliament act is BS and making a mockery of democracy well I say democracy I no idea now what we have now.

[Jimbuna]

Yesterday I hear in the radio that Johnson is on a Tory political convention in Manchester, and had to go back to London if the House of Commons decided so.



That will only happen if the opposition call a vote of no confidence....every MP at the conference would have to return and the balance of the vote would probably be decided by those twenty odd who had the whip taken away from them.

[Jimbuna]

That fact we are all aware of I was referring he should abstain from his own vote of no confidence in his own government after all Bojo keeps banging on about it. Fail that means he is chicken just like the wet paper bags of the opposition.

This bloody mess is thanks to Dave and Nick, the fix term parliament act is BS and making a mockery of democracy well I say democracy I no idea now what we have now.

https://i.postimg.cc/tRN9fxYT/71067385-2637792586273102-327874328748097536-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[STEED]

Some else said that about March 31st 2019.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson says there should be "no doubt" the only alternative to the Brexit proposals he will put to Brussels later is no-deal.

Addressing his party conference in Manchester, the PM said his plan would be a "compromise by the UK", but he hoped the EU would "understand that and compromise in their turn".

The European Commission said they will "examine [the proposals] objectively".

The UK is set to leave the EU on 31 October.

The government has insisted it will not negotiate a further delay beyond the Halloween deadline, saying this would be unnecessary and costly for the UK.

However, under the terms of a law passed by Parliament last month, the PM faces having to request another extension unless MPs back the terms of withdrawal by 19 October - two days after a summit of European leaders.

In his speech, Mr Johnson said no-deal was not an outcome the government was seeking, but "it is an outcome for which we are ready".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49906702

Either way, a decision will soon be forthcoming.

[Jimbuna]

The government has published its Brexit proposals to the EU, including plans to replace the Irish backstop.

The plan would see Northern Ireland essentially stay in the European single market for goods through the creation of an "all-island regulatory zone".

The Northern Ireland Assembly would have to approve the arrangements first and be able to vote every four years on whether to keep them.

The European Commission says it will "examine [the proposals] objectively".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49909309

I'm surprised if the DUP will agree to this as is currently being suggested and totally astonished if the EU agree.

[Skybird]

well I say democracy I no idea now what we have now.
Ask these two, I have no doubt they will not leave you in darkness any longer.

https://globalquiz.org/media/pic/400/12711.jpg

[Jimbuna]

:haha:

[STEED]

Ask these two, I have no doubt they will not leave you in darkness any longer.

https://globalquiz.org/media/pic/400/12711.jpgMay as well put them two in charge. After all the dickheads we have now are not worth voting for.

[STEED]

Good news

https://news.sky.com/video/michel-barnier-says-progress-is-being-made-but-work-still-to-do-11825595

Bad news

https://news.sky.com/video/this-is-not-the-safeguard-ireland-needs-says-guy-verhofstadt-on-latest-uk-brexit-proposal-11825664

This lot are a bunch of clown's just like our lot no wonder we're all.....I am not allowed to post the f word.

[Jimbuna]

The truth of the matter is, whilst they aren't as divided as we are, they are also far from being united.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson appears to be fighting a losing battle to avoid Britain staying in the European Union beyond 31 October after Michel Barnier privately gave a scathing analysis of the prime minister’s new plan for the Irish border, describing it as a trap.

The European commission also refused to go into the secretive and intensive “tunnel” talks with the UK’s negotiators before a crunch summit on 17 October from which the UK had hoped to deliver a breakthrough deal.

Despite concerted attempts to avoid publicly trashing the UK proposals, there was dismay behind the scenes in Brussels after Johnson tabled his first concrete proposal for replacing the Irish backstop.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-dismay-in-brussels-as-boris-johnson-finally-reveals-plan/ar-AAId8BC?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Well, that's that then :doh:

[Jimbuna]

Campaigners have lost a significant legal battle against the government's handling of the rise in women's state pension age.

The retirement age for women rose from 60 to 65, in line with men, and will go up to 66 by 2020, and to 67 by 2028.

Women born in the 1950s claim the rise is unfair because they were not given enough time to make adjustments to cope with years without a state pension.

They argued the changes were discrimination, but judges disagreed.

In a summary of the court's decision, the judges said: "There was no direct discrimination on grounds of sex, because this legislation does not treat women less favourably than men in law. Rather it equalises a historic asymmetry between men and women and thereby corrects historic direct discrimination against men."

The court also rejected the claimants' argument that the policy was discriminatory based on age, adding that even if it was "it could be justified on the facts". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49917315

Arguably another politically motivated decision by the courts and this time it is rather personal, my wife being one of those estimated 3.8 million women.

[STEED]

Well, that's that then :doh:

Bojo is talking rubbish how can we leave he has no power, brexit secretary seems to suggest all is going well. :doh:

I am sick of the stinking BS we are told.....

[Jimbuna]

You and me both but the definitive moment is less than a month away.

[STEED]

You and me both but the definitive moment is less than a month away.

I'm of the opinion if I had my blood pressure checked I would be told it's brexit that has caused high blood pressure. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

I had my annual health check last month and got a clean bill of health thank God.

[STEED]

Well done jim.:up:

Bojo is speaking now, he has said we are leaving and hopefully with a deal, there will be no second reforendrum. SKY News reports his idea is very similar to May's one early in the year.

Bojo has just said if the EU rejects his deal we are going to crash out the EU.

I am not convinced, as you say jim we shall all see soon.

[Jimbuna]

It's all in the link below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49914326

[Skybird]

TBH, I am a bit surprised by Johnson's proposals for the Irish issue, they are more reasonable than I would have expected. As a matter of fact in principle its the same kind of idea that I see as the only maybe possible option to break the deadlock. I have not yet understood this four-years thing, whether it is a just once or a self-repeating thing if the Irish see the need and desire. If it is a just-once thing, than the EU will not accept it, since then it would leave the option to the UK side to just sit out these four years once, and then pull Northern Ireland out of the agreement anyway.



It now will show who is the opinion-forming majority on side iof the EU leaders: those who want to prevent any successful Brexit that works for Britain anyway so to crfeate a precedence that you cannot leave the eU without breaking your own neck, or those who accept a compromise just to limit the mnutual damage for bioth sides, accepting that Britain may turn out successful with its leave in the long run. I have always argued tnat the eU wants no success for britain for principle rasons, But maybe now that the dealine is close, the minority of reaiosnable people, if there are any, can push the steering wheel around.


German newspapers titled with plenty of negative, sometimes even personally offending headlines. Johnson=Bulldozer, that is the common ground.



Yes, he is a bulldozer. Having a dozer with plenty of PS is the only way to clean a path through the rubble if you want to make your way through this stupid nuthouse parliament has become.


If the British people have sane minds, after Brexit they replace the dozer with a wrecking ball and level the whole place. They call it Westminster, after all the West is where the sun sets. Until then, Dozer: press the pedal to the metal and let the engine roar!


After he delivered, he must go. After all he shares major responsibility for the referendum's outcome three years ago, on the grounds of questionable numbers at best. I support him, but not for the reasons he gave as his arguments, but for different reasons. In other words: my motives are different than his.

[Jimbuna]

Sky, I think we are still a long way from reaching an agreement but not a long way before the clock stops ticking on the 31st.

If there is a genuine will from both sides to reach a deal then it will happen.

The alternative is multiple wounds to all parties, wounds that might take generations to heal and that is no good to anyone.

ATM I am at my most hopeful of a deal but I still can't see it happening just yet.

[Skybird]

EU/Junckers showed the expected reaction today: maximum demands and no indication of offering a valid concession. There have been no legally binding concessions by the EU since 3 years, but only the constant reflecting of any need to move and show willingness to compromise.


The British side ma ynot have shone with cleiverness and wittiness in the first two years of the "negotiation" process. But for the EU the whole negotiating was just a staged alibi from beginning on.


There shall be no chance for Britain to leave and be succesful with that. That is the imperial premisse for the EU overshadowing all and everything.


Its a fine difference Johnson made when leaving the decision on the Irish status to the Northern Irish regional parliament that it should re-assess and decide ionb every four years - the deicison is left to the Irish population, not to London. Note the silent non-chalance with which the EU does not even mention this. London has waived on the absolute control over this issue, indicated it is willing to leave it to who it affects most: the Irish in NI who can talk and coordinate with the republican Irish. Reply of the EU: No.


Thats the only thing they keep on saying since three years: No. Everything else they said in this time, was just irrelevant coating or legally non-binding shine.


NO.


Though shall not leave. Never.



If this were a face-to-face meeting, I would support the British to just slam a hard fist into the EU's face and then showing them the middle finger while leaving the place.

[Jimbuna]

If this were a face-to-face meeting, I would support the British to just slam a hard fist into the EU's face and then showing them the middle finger while leaving the place.

Spoken like a TRUE BRIT :)

[Catfish]

Spoken like a TRUE BRIT :)
Yep, I hope he moves to England, and soon. :D

[Kapitan]

This was bought on by a small debate in another thread so for the Europeans mainly, it will be a hot topic especially the brits among us.

In 2016 the UK held a referendum in which the voter had two options: Remain in the EU or Leave the EU

Sentiment ran very high and still does in the UK with both sides having strong feelings;

I have my own opinion and reasons why I voted the way I did and I am happy to discuss them, it would be interesting to see other peoples points of view including from inside other EU countries as well as outside the EU.

I don’t want this to turn into a flame war I’m sure we are grown up enough to have a reasonable debate / discussion putting our points of view across in a adult manner and not accusing / abusing people.

if it does go that way then im sure Jimbuna will happily lock the topic so lets just keep it civil.

[mapuc]

Why do you have all that fun

Here in Denmark
we had the Prime Minister's opening speech yesterday.
Today it was the Danish Parliament's openings debate and they answered each other very politely as it was pure Sunday school.

Not this rough discussion I see from the English Parliament.

Markus

[mapuc]

A very interesting discussion await us.

I have for long been hoping that some of you had create an EU-thread.

´cause EU affect most of us who are member on this forum.

Markus

[Catfish]

Who do you think will write here? Some haters, some resigners and a lot bored to death by brexit while China and Russia are laughing all the way long? And you 'Brits' should be more afraid of the US than just of all the EU. It is all about gut feeling and nationalism, not reasonable or well-based decision finding. I have heard all the arguments why the EU is so bad, and you can debunk 10 and there are a hundred new myths. Still discuss real advantages and shortcomings? No, i'm bored. Let the haters have their way.

Since this is a spin-off from Mapuc's thread i can comment, then i'm out and will the usual EU ranters and haters have their way.

"This was bought on by a small debate in another thread so for the Europeans mainly, it will be a hot topic especially the brits among us."
Well, i believe so.

"In 2016 the UK held a referendum in which the voter had two options: Remain in the EU or Leave the EU"
This was not meant as a referendum, but an informal question how the british population was leaning, towards the EU. By someone who put his personal career and the party line above what would have been the best for the country.
It was not a binding referendum. Apart from that one might say that people were misinformed (while you could translate this in "being lied to").

Sentiment ran very high and still does in the UK with both sides having strong feelings;
After all it was a narrow outcome, which most probably has changed by now after some realized who lied to them, and by what magnitude. Give the younger generation a chance again after they slept over the referendum? Better not, since a current outcome could well be 52 to 48 percent against brexit.
Whatever, the people are divided and there is not a clear-cut majority. It would have been better to make an official binding referendum, demand a 2/3 majority for changing and do not let types like Farage or Cummings climb the soap box while letting them spread lies without a proper answer or at least a rectification. This way there will be more division, adding to the medieval class society England is so proud of.

I have my own opinion and reasons why I voted the way I did and I am happy to discuss them, it would be interesting to see other peoples points of view including from inside other EU countries as well as outside the EU.
Yes by all means have your own opinion.
I wonder what happened if some 27 other countries' EU readers really posted their opinions about 'brexit'. Since this is foremost a small military forum i guess i know what the outcome will be here.

[Kapitan]

To take issue with some points of yours catfish:

Let the haters hate, and we were lied to (both sides lied)

No this isn’t what this is about every person is entitled to an opinion regardless if it for or against, I for one am not totally against the EU and what they wish to achieve, in fact right up until the last moment I was very much in favour of remaining in the EU.

What caused me to vote the way I did was based mainly on the industry I am in (Transport Industry)

My vote was not about immigration, or open borders and free movement I actually like the concept I do think it is a plus of the EU, however there has been some negatives associated with this.

For a start I had a lot of European guys working under me, Polish, Romanian, Lithuanian and Hungarian to name a few, I cant fault their willingness to work or their work ethic and over all they are fantastic guys.
I spent a lot of time socialising with them getting to know them and understand why they left their own countries, it boiled down to little to no work and low pay, so ok they want a better life good for them I applaud their decision its not an easy one to make.

They have concerns though for their own country which is understandable for example one of the drivers I’m close with who comes from Romania told me how his village had over 7,000 people in it, then after they joined the EU how people moved away himself included, he went back recently and there’s a little over 1,500 still in the village, so what has been achieved ? these countries join the EU and migration eventually strangles them and Romania is by no means unique.

That issue aside the main reason I voted to leave was because the EU legislation that governs the transport industry, on the whole the legislation is there to create an even playing field among all 27 member states, however it doesn’t.

In 2009 I witnessed a mass exodus from my industry, overnight we lost 11 drivers (some of my most senior and experienced) in the company I worked for out of 30, because they refused to pay for the new CPC qualification coming into force which was wedged through by the EU.
The main issue being for these drivers was that under the new legislation they would have to pay from their own pocket anywhere between 700-1500gbp to undertake 35 hours of periodic training, that’s 5 blocks of 7 hours, here’s another catch you can do the same course 5 times and pass ! the legislation went further to cripple them by stating that the training is classified as on duty, so therefore they could not be paid holiday pay or use holiday entitlement, companies were also not obliged to pay their staff while at the training session, what did that say to the drivers? Get out now!

We then find in 2011 that there has been a double standard, while our drivers were being inspected and sometimes issued fines, other European companies mainly from the Netherlands, France, Germany and Belgium, had differed their CPC legislation the last one adopted it in 2017.
On top of that today as it stands domestic carriers in certain countries (Netherlands, Belgium, France) don’t require their drivers to do a CPC at all.

The loss of drivers nearly folded the company and while you may think it is unique it wasn’t in all quite a fair few companies closed their doors, even the major hauliers cut back creating a large vacuum in the industry and we had a massive backlog of loads.
But what else happened the Rates did not go up to reflect the extra cost of doing business, it became extremely hard to find drivers even with an open market in the EU, I point out that the CPC was not welcome in nearly all EU states by the transport industry the one time we generally unified together.

Now that it is here the UK driver shortage which stood at 33,000 pre 2009 is not at over 50,000 today not because of expansion or inflation but because drivers are retiring the average age of a truck driver is 58 years old, and there is little young blood coming into the industry.

The other issue I have with the EU is the O Licencing conditions, not that many years ago we had a lot of small operators and owner operators, with the new financial levies for operation imposed on us by the EU it means these people have vanished, its now only the big guys with big fleets that can sustain the O licence conditions, owner drivers are few and far between now and few people aspire to own a fleet of trucks simply because you just couldn’t afford to do so with the initial start up cost and regulations.

I don’t feel that the EU was working for me or the industry I was in, it certainly didn’t support start ups within the transport industry, the world over it does appear the transport industry is shunned and looked down upon.

Here’s the reality of it though without the transport sector which is generally one of the largest sectors of any economy the whole thing falls apart you don’t even have a country to manage let alone food, or other items you wish to buy.

It makes me wonder why the EU wants to try and make it harder for us to transit the continent as well, this whole medicine shortage is also a nice little farce because most of the population will believe it without realising that even though the EU can control borders they cannot stop transit vehicles because that is managed by the United Nations under what we call T.I.R regulations, so all those who believe there will be a shortage of food and medicines if we leave, it just means a delay at the border but we can legally move them under the T.I.R Regs.

But on the whole that is a summary of sorts in why I voted to leave there are other bits but this was the main one when I sat down and thought about it all.

[Skybird]

Not wanting to prevent anything here, but I think the topic of Brexit is already well served in the UK thread, and I will restrain myself from repeating in this thread what already is being said in the other. :03:

[STEED]

Yep, I hope he moves to England, and soon. :DNah Sky is staying put to tell it strait. :03: :O:

[JU_88]

What Sky said, and yeah I think at this point most are pretty tired of it and just want it to be over really.
The arguments over it go no where, I find those with the strongest opinions are not really able to unpack it properly, as their position is too emotionally rooted in nationalist or progressive - bile, i mean 'ideology' :P.
Bottom line is its very complicated, and Id be reluctant to trust anyone who paints it as simple from a one-sided P.O.V.

[Jimbuna]

I'll have to agree with Sky and Francis regarding the repetition to the UK thread and it is far easier to moderate one thread on the subject matter as opposed to two.

I'll give it a few hours for any who object to the above to say so then failing that I'll merge the threads.

TIA

[Jimbuna]

Why do you have all that fun

Here in Denmark
we had the Prime Minister's opening speech yesterday.
Today it was the Danish Parliament's openings debate and they answered each other very politely as it was pure Sunday school.

Not this rough discussion I see from the English Parliament.

Markus

Parliament is far too 'civilised' to stoop to those levels Markus :03:

[Jimbuna]

Former Conservative leadership candidate Rory Stewart is quitting as an MP to run for London mayor as an independent candidate.

The MP has also announced he has resigned from the Conservative Party.

Mr Stewart tweeted: "It's been a great privilege to serve Penrith and The Border for the last ten years."

He was expelled from the Conservatives in the Commons along with 20 other Brexit rebels, but remained a member of the party.

Writing for his local newspaper, the Cumberland and Westmorland Herald, he said: "As you will be aware, I am no longer allowed to run as Conservative MP in Penrith and The Border.

"Because I have loved the constituency so much, I had considered standing as an Independent; but I have decided that I wouldn't want to run against those Conservative members who have been such wonderful colleagues over the last 10 years." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49931937

No doubt some will say he is doing the honourable thing but the other twenty who had the whip taken away from them have to consider their positions in the next general election.

[Jimbuna]

A Scottish judge is being asked to consider whether Boris Johnson could be jailed if he takes the UK out of the EU without a deal.

A legal challenge is to be heard at the Court of Session about whether the prime minister could be forced to delay Brexit if no exit deal is agreed.

However, Mr Johnson has said he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than ask European leaders for another extension.

The court case seeks to establish what might happen if he refuses to act.

This could even include the court effectively signing a letter to European leaders on behalf of Mr Johnson, asking for a fresh extension.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49924755

I'll say one thing, this is certainly rating very highly in the entertainment stakes :haha:

[JU_88]

This seems to be the new precedent in western politics,
'If I can't win though debate and democratic means, Ill just see if I can get my opponent dragged in front of a court and prosecuted for something, (even when the people are not calling for it)'.

If that doesn't scare you, it damn well should, no matter which side you're on.
the for the past 100 or so years, its never gotten this bad.

I fear the impact of no-deal will pale compared what would happen in the event of an over turned brexit from the top level (without a GE or 2nd ref). When half a nation loses faith in their ability to make changes though democratic means, the next step usually involves bricks and petrol bombs.
'No deal /crash out' at the end of this month is the 2nd worst possible outcome here.

[STEED]

Politics is being manipulated by the social media like some control freak and to make it worst politians are playing up to the camera look at me......

Is this a blip, I am not convinced in fact I think it's here to stay and will become more stupid and crass as time goes on.

[Jimbuna]

This seems to be the new precedent in western politics,
'If I can't win though debate and democratic means, Ill just see if I can get my opponent dragged in front of a court and prosecuted for something, (even when the people are not calling for it)'.

If that doesn't scare you, it damn well should, no matter which side you're on.
the for the past 100 or so years, its never gotten this bad.

I fear the impact of no-deal will pale compared what would happen in the event of an over turned brexit from the top level (without a GE or 2nd ref). When half a nation loses faith in their ability to make changes though democratic means, the next step usually involves bricks and petrol bombs.
'No deal /crash out' at the end of this month is the 2nd worst possible outcome here.

Yep, certainly beginning to look that way :yep:

[JU_88]

Politics is being manipulated by the social media like some control freak and to make it worst politians are playing up to the camera look at me......

Is this a blip, I am not convinced in fact I think it's here to stay and will become more stupid and crass as time goes on.

Well If it continues, it will have to come to head at some point. Both here and accross the pond. such a political climate is unsustainable long term.

[STEED]

Well If it continues, it will have to come to head at some point. Both here and accross the pond. such a political climate is unsustainable long term.I don't think enough people are wide awake, most are sleepwalking or lapping it up on social media like trolls sniffing magic fairy dust.

Will it come to a head and people say enough of this I doubt it.

[JU_88]

I don't think enough people are wide awake, most are sleepwalking or lapping it up on social media like trolls sniffing magic fairy dust.

Will it come to a head and people say enough of this I doubt it.

Not everyone will be involved, it only takes a few to spark it off, and then more will join them.
I'm not predicting all out civil war, but something akin to the yellow vests would be more than likley.

[Jimbuna]

Not everyone will be involved, it only takes a few to spark it off, and then more will join them.
I'm not predicting all out civil war, but something akin to the yellow vests would be more than likley.

No thanks, I did my two tours of duty and enjoy simple retirement life now.

[JU_88]

No thanks hear either, mass street violence is unsettling to say the least.

[Jimbuna]

If I'm to be totally honest though, the pay was good :03:

[STEED]

In the short term we have to worry about hot heads and brexit is a UXB. Bad enough with the crack heads drop outs and the Friday night binge drinker's.

[Jimbuna]

Sounds to me like somebody is already living in an area of civil unrest :)

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49936352

Does the "magican" get "disenchanted" ?


If he asks for extension in Brussel, this might reduce Johnson's chances in early elections after end of Octobre dramatically, or not? Or will they forgive him the breaking of his core promise?

[Jimbuna]

Sending such a letter will have a negative effect on Tory election chances but nowhere near as much as the damage already done to Labour over the whole affair.

Farage will benefit though and he is more likely to support a Tory government.

[Skybird]

^ Imagine

- Labour gets its will and no election before Oct. 31 or so, so that Johnson cannot avoid sending that letter;

- voters of the Tories being so pissed by Johnson that they give Johnson one in the eye and so

- Farrage's UKIP gains an absolute majority, and then completes no-deal-Brexit.

:har: :har: :har:#

Corbyn pissed. Johnson pissed. Tories pissed. Labour pissed. Brussels and the EU pissed. And Farrage grinning his wide monkey grin.

And you now what? I think it is not even a completely unrealistic scenario. Not after the past three years.

[STEED]

Sounds to me like somebody is already living in an area of civil unrest :)

In the words of Kryten you bet your ass.

Upper middle class area you would not think that walking the streets on Friday night.

[mapuc]

I have in this forum seen the word Civil unrest a few times.

Will this civil unrest happen whether UK leave EU or not or if it leaves with or without a deal ?
(can't get the sentence right)

Markus

[JU_88]

I hoping it wont. I'm suggesting its more likely if the courts interfere in a major way.
but if Brexit got flipped via a GE or a 2nd referendum, that might not be so bad

That said, I'm also betting if we do leave on the 31st, some Brexiteers will go out celebrating, and we will be hearing some horror stories the day after about the more unsavory ones.

[STEED]

I have a great idea to solve the Brexit deadlock problem, Europe gets rid of the EU thus solving the Brexit problem. :up:

[JU_88]

You might have to wait another decade or three before that happens. :hmmm:

[STEED]

You might have to wait another decade or three before that happens. :hmmm:
Just slip Europe a fiver and they will be happy to scrap the EU. :)

[Jimbuna]

^ Imagine

- Labour gets its will and no election before Oct. 31 or so, so that Johnson cannot avoid sending that letter;

- voters of the Tories being so pissed by Johnson that they give Johnson one in the eye and so

- Farrage's UKIP gains an absolute majority, and then completes no-deal-Brexit.

:har: :har: :har:#

Corbyn pissed. Johnson pissed. Tories pissed. Labour pissed. Brussels and the EU pissed. And Farrage grinning his wide monkey grin.

And you now what? I think it is not even a completely unrealistic scenario. Not after the past three years.

Whilst I agree anything is possible in these uncertain times I don't think the scenario you describe is ever going to happen.

Oh and Farage is no longer the leader of UKIP, he is the leader of the Brexit Party :03:

[Jimbuna]

I have in this forum seen the word Civil unrest a few times.

Will this civil unrest happen whether UK leave EU or not or if it leaves with or without a deal ?
(can't get the sentence right)

Markus

Hard to say Markus but I sincerely hope not.

[Jimbuna]

Talks between the UK and European Union will not take place this weekend as anticipated after the European Commission said Boris Johnson's new Brexit proposals "do not provide a basis for concluding an agreement".
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brussels-deals-blow-to-johnsons-new-brexit-proposals/ar-AAIj2Fn?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

It is looking increasingly likely that it is going to be 'Do or die'

[JU_88]

I highly doubt anyone but the Tories are able to take a parliamentary majority at present. and even their chances on that are very slim - as they'll get wiped out in Scotland.
We'll probably need another coalition.

The most solid coalition would be SNP and Libdems probably, they are united on quite alot of issues, especially brexit. IMO they would probably need Labour as well to form a majority.
And Labour are in such a fractured mess I doubt any one would want to work with them at the moment.
Cons and Brexit party would be possible, but messy - they'd butt heads alot. Cons+BP would be the most likey winners at the moment IMO.

[Jimbuna]

I'd certainly agree with you on points two and three but doubt the SNP and LibDems could muster sufficient numbers to form a government.

I'd personally go for a Tory Brexit coalition.

[JU_88]

I'd certainly agree with you on points two and three but doubt the SNP and LibDems could muster sufficient numbers to form a government.

I'd personally go for a Tory Brexit coalition.

yeah i thought about it and edited, They'd need to unite all 3 major pro remainer parties probably.

[Jimbuna]

The government has confirmed it plans to prorogue Parliament next Tuesday and hold a Queen's Speech on 14 October.

Boris Johnson's last attempt to suspend Parliament in this way was ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court.

But the government needs to bring the current parliamentary session to an end, before it can hold a Queen's Speech setting out its agenda for the next session. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49913130

There certainly shouldn't be any drama this time round.

[Skybird]

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/banksy_ts/25086382/2-format1007.jpg
Klaus Stuttman, for: Der Tagesspiegel

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/90Znttv2/download.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[STEED]

POLL OF POLLS
Going up
Cons and the LibDems

Going Down
Lab and Brx

Bouncing along
SNP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49798197

[mapuc]

It takes two to dance.

Why haven't EU set a deadline ?

So far it have only been the UK who have said they are going or hope they will leave 31 October.

Why haven't EU said something similar- Ok UK whatever deal we may agree on, your result of the referendum stand clear-you leave October 31.

Markus

[Skybird]

It takes two to dance.

Why haven't EU set a deadline ?

So far it have only been the UK who have said they are going or hope they will leave 31 October.

Why haven't EU said something similar- Ok UK whatever deal we may agree on, your result of the referendum stand clear-you leave October 31.

Markus
Because the EU does not want to let the UK go. Second largest economy of the bloc. Fourth biggest net payer into the EU budget. They want the UK to ignore the referendum - not to honour the referendum.

[Catfish]

^ which would be a typical "The Sun" answer, packing all the blame on the EU. If you followed the last two years and what happened in UK politics, the answer is probably not quite as easy.

[mapuc]

I can't say if Skybird's response to my comment is a typical "The Sun" answer

The question would rather be

Is he correct in what he wrote-That it is not in EU's interest to let UK leave ?

Markus

[Skybird]

^ States and supranational organisations have interests, and these cost money. The UK is the second biggest economy in the block, and the sixth largest economy in the world (after US, China, Japan, Germany, India). If you were the EU, mapuc, you would not let them go, too. Not if you can prevent them by any means. Without the UK, the economic weight of the block on the diplomatic parquet is significantly lighter. And there is a risk that they become kind of a beachead of more US influence in Europe (though I think the UK wojuld be stuipdiu to build its new domicile on grounds of trust in Trump, but they may have no other choice in the forseeable future).

Also, as I often said,m the EU fears that the UK could be successful in the long run, doing better, at least doing good without the EU. This would be a dangerous example. A precednece that shows others that their is a life beyond the EU, and that one can successfully leave the EU. This demonstration must be prevented at any cost. Either by preventing a leave, or by preventing prospering of the UK after a leave. The UK doing well and successful, is the worst case scenario for the EU.

I recall that some months ago, earlier this year, there were even leaked documents from two years ago or so showing that high diplomats at the EU more or less voiced exactly this ^. I think I linked it back then. Brexoit for the UK shall not be a suzccess for the UK, was the dominant premisse. Only the EU can give success and wellness, that is the narration in the block. Well, a few states that never became members in the first prove the opposite, but usually they get no news coverage for that in the media.

[mapuc]

^ That is true

No one can say how good or bad it will go for UK after they have left the building.

Furthermore if as you wrote, if it goes very well for UK after they have left, it could give other countries or people hope and a domino effect could be rolling.

Right now no other members(read European politicians) are frighten so they do not dare to think it-Shall we leave EU. This due to this comedy we are witness to in mostly UK.

Markus

[JU_88]

Sure but all the Brexit drama, has not been caused by the EU, its pretty much been caused internally here.
Because we have majority Leaver population and majority Remainer Parliament.

The EU has not been unreasonable do far,

Out of self preservation, they ultimately don't really want us to leave at all,
or they want us to leave with a deal more or less set on their terms, or in the case of hard Brexit, they will hope it goes badly for us so that other Skeptic member states will think twice.
I don't hold anything against them for that. they are perfectly entitled to look out for their own interests.
Anyone else would be doing the same.

[Jimbuna]

Can't disagree with the above sentiments in the previous posts.

Much depends on which side you support.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson has claimed his Brexit proposals have picked up support in Parliament as he urged the European Union to compromise.

Writing in two Sunday papers he said: "We are leaving in 25 days. We can do it with a deal if the EU is willing."

Meanwhile, Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay told the EU and opposition MPs: "We are not backing down."

The UK offer must not be "take it or leave it", Latvia's Prime Minister Krisjanis Karins told the BBC.

Talks are due to resume on Monday as both parties try to find a new agreement in time for a crucial summit of European leaders on 17-18 October.

But arrangements for preventing a hard border on the island of Ireland continue to be a sticking point, with the EU calling for "fundamental changes" to the UK's latest proposals.

Ireland's taoiseach Leo Varadkar said he believes a deal is possible but said current proposals do not go far enough.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49950188

Perhaps there is still a small glimmer of hope remaining.

[Jimbuna]

Writing in the Sun on Sunday and the Sunday Express, Mr Johnson said: "After decades of campaigning, three years of arguments and seemingly endless months of pointless delay, it is now just 25 days until the UK's membership of the European Union comes to an end.

"We will be packing our bags and walking out on 31 October. The only question is whether Brussels cheerily waves us off with a mutually agreeable deal, or whether we will be forced to head off on our own."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pm-to-eu-were-packing-our-bags-will-you-cheerily-wave-us-off/ar-AAIlbht?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

I'll say one thing for you Boris, you certainly have a way with words :)

[STEED]

Bojo has told us sod sweet all and how the heck is he going to leave the EU without a deal and breaking the law.

[Jimbuna]

Where there is a will there is usually a way.

[Skybird]

Where there is a will there is usually a way.
And sometimes the wall proves to be thicker than the head slamming against it. The revelations before that scottish court that the govenrment will ask for a delay, have left him wepainless in Brussel. Brussels now has even less any reason to accept anything. The only hope is that some EU nation's head of state indeed is so pissed now and blocks any EU agreeing to a delay. The agreeing on a delay must be unanimously. Maybe Johnson can provoke an according incident.

[Jimbuna]

And sometimes the wall proves to be thicker than the head slamming against it. The revelations before that scottish court that the govenrment will ask for a delay, have left him wepainless in Brussel. Brussels now has even less any reason to accept anything. The only hope is that some EU nation's head of state indeed is so pissed now and blocks any EU agreeing to a delay. The agreeing on a delay must be unanimously. Maybe Johnson can provoke an according incident.

Or the letter is carefully worded to fit in with his plan for a general election.

[STEED]

some EU nation's head of state indeed is so pissed now and blocks any EU agreeing to a delay. The agreeing on a delay must be unanimously. Maybe Johnson can provoke an according incident.

This idea has been banded about like appointing Nigel in some sort of position to rub up the EU the wrong way. Even agreeing to a another delay but with holding our weekly payment to the EU.

[Jimbuna]

This idea has been banded about like appointing Nigel in some sort of position to rub up the EU the wrong way. Even agreeing to a another delay but with holding our weekly payment to the EU.

Not possible....a breach of an international treaty.

[STEED]

Not possible....a breach of an international treaty.

The way Bojo is going I would not put anything pass him. As for the Nigel idea I don't think he would fall for it being used as a shield for the tories.

[Jimbuna]

There is still a way and I posted that way a few days ago but Boris is playing his cards close to his chest, especially in light of what he is up against in Parliament.

[Skybird]

Or the letter is carefully worded to fit in with his plan for a general election.
If the claims from Scotland that he is ready to ask for a delay is true, then elections probably were his bet fro
m beginning on.

[Jimbuna]

If the claims from Scotland that he is ready to ask for a delay is true, then elections probably were his bet fro
m beginning on.

I think in all fairness to everyone, every base possibility has been mentioned so whatever happens next, someone will be saying "told you so" but that will only be with the benefit of hindsight.

[STEED]

Blackford: SNP to demand indyref2 in return for supporting Labour governmenthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49951259

Cracks between SNP and Labour will spell the end to the nameless one dream of power, thank goodness.


On the brexit front that french ponce has said we should know by the end of the week deal or no deal.

[MGR1]

Labour does have a major problem when it comes to dealing with the SNP - it's Scottish Branch Office!

Look up "the Bain Principle" and it'll tell you a lot why SLab is in the state it is.

Moving on to economics, another article from BBC Scotland's Douglas Fraser:

Lumpy London, Scottish spread (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-49959287).


Foreign investment into the UK is showing signs of slowing up, and as uncertainty grows, it is ever more concentrated on London.

A new report shows Scotland has done better than other parts of the UK in spreading economic benefit beyond the cities and into towns and villages.
Universities play a large part in drawing foreign investment, and may explain a recent surge in the number of projects going into Scottish core cities.


This should help explain at least part of the reason as to why devolution is popular up here.

In the meantime, Ruth Davidson has elected to step down as an MSP after her term is up:

Scottish Conservatives: Ruth Davidson unlikely to seek re-election (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49952958).

I wonder if an eventual move to the Republic of Ireland is on the cards - her partner's Irish.:hmmm:

It will be very interesting to see how the Scottish Conservatives fare when it comes to both a UK General Election and the next Holyrood one.

Mike.

[STEED]

^If as it seems the SNP is on the rise again I suspect the Tories will loose a number of seats as Labour will, who will loose the most no idea until the election.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49951259

Cracks between SNP and Labour will spell the end to the nameless one dream of power, thank goodness.


On the brexit front that french ponce has said we should know by the end of the week deal or no deal.

I've always said a break up of the Union will only make each country weaker but if the majority of any member country wish it then so be it but only under one proviso....they take with them their fair proportionate share of the national debt which would have to be mutually agreed by all parties concerned.

I don't think it correct that you refer to a countries leader with such a term, I would certainly object to such terminology being levelled at my monarch for example.

Harmless humour is always welcome of course.

https://i.postimg.cc/LXv8mHGP/eWDecdN.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Jimbuna]

It will be very interesting to see how the Scottish Conservatives fare when it comes to both a UK General Election and the next Holyrood one.

Mike.

Quite possible they could be wiped out.

[Jimbuna]

A Scottish judge has dismissed a move to force Boris Johnson to comply with a law aimed at avoiding a no-deal Brexit.

Campaigners had wanted to ensure that the prime minister would write to the EU to request an extension if no deal is in place by 19 October.

They argued that statements made by the government showed that it could not be trusted.

But Lord Pentland said there "can be no doubt" that the prime minister had agreed to abide by the law.

As a result, he said there was no need for "coercive orders" against the UK government or against the prime minister.

One of the petitioners, Jo Maugham QC, said the decision would be appealed.

He said the ruling has left Mr Johnson with "wriggle room".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49959167

I must admit to being a little surprised at the ruling.

[Skybird]

Naivety, disconnection from reality - it does not stop at a court hall's door. The judge's explanation left me giggling.

[Jimbuna]

Naivety, disconnection from reality - it does not stop at a court hall's door. The judge's explanation left me giggling.

It does look like Boris is going to be compliant though, I have just had the opportunity to see the draft of the letter he will be sending to President Tusk.

https://i.postimg.cc/x8TRk8KM/71524973-526605494769678-7881915555446259712-n.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9RKTKWgQ)