UK Politics Thread

[Jimbuna]

Oh, the EU will grant the UK an extension until short before the EU elections this year, but this will be it. That is, if the EU is not infected by the UK brexit chaos, and still has a brain to think with.

If the UK take part in the EU elections I predict a chaotic aftermath caused by a large influx of right wing MEP's

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47614074


Speaker John Bercow says a third vote on an dela unchanged, is not possible.


Also, I learned yesterday that the European High Court aleady said months ago that a unilateral retreat from Brexit by the UK just with the intention to later file it again, is not possible, must not be accepted by the EU.



Of course, this does not mean that politicians will necessarily follow laws, rules and obligations. Especially the recent, modern history of the EU and the Euro is an endless chain of broken laws and broken treaties and broken promises, and knows so many cheats, lies, dubious avoidance manouvers, and betrayals.

[Catfish]

Corrected that for you.

There is a link behind my original words, which are

"Brexit is a project by the elites, for the elites – the rest of us were never meant to benefit from it"

From here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-elite-boris-johnson-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-hate-crime-a8531241.html

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
- Warren Buffet

[mapuc]

By reading some of your post and reading and hearing the news I get the feeling

There are people in England and in The EU who is doing everything to keep UK in EU.

(I know I have mentioned this before, but thou more info I get, thou more convinced I'm)

Markus

[Catfish]

[...]I get the feeling
There are people in England and in The EU who is doing everything to keep UK in EU. [...]

Maybe up to last year, but this may have changed in the last months. Regarding a further delay, this will not go beyond the beginning of the next EU elections may 23rd, 2019.
Whether getting out with or without deal, i do not see a realistic plan or path to what should be better after this for anyone, in Europe. Russia and China (and the US) will of course have a laugh and a real measurable advantage.

[Jimbuna]

Speaker John Bercow says a third vote on an dela unchanged, is not possible.






Bercows supposed 'impartiality' has been called into question on a few occasions recently.

[Jimbuna]

The challenge has been accepted and the game is on.

Theresa May will defy John Bercow and “find a way through” to stage a third vote on her twice-defeated Brexit deal next week, a Cabinet minister has insisted.

Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, revealed the prime minister would attempt to get around the Speaker’s shock ruling – that identical votes cannot be restaged after defeats – by arguing she had secured changes.

One option was to insist the EU agreeing an extension to Article 50 to delay Brexit day constituted a different motion, or to agree changes that satisfied the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/theresa-may-to-force-third-vote-on-brexit-deal-in-defiance-of-john-bercow-ruling-cabinet-minister-reveals/ar-BBUWWZB?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[STEED]

The challenge has been accepted and the game is on.
About time he stopped pandering too the remainers. I agree why should PM May bring back the same thing that was rejected, if she makes big changes then yes put it to the vote.

[Jimbuna]

About time he stopped pandering too the remainers. I agree why should PM May bring back the same thing that was rejected, if she makes big changes then yes put it to the vote.

I think you've missed the point....his actions work solely in favour of the remainers.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I have no opinion on Mr. Bercow's decision. However I'm astonished that this came as a "surprise" to British politicians and media. This outcome was predicted in Yle's (Finnish counterpart to BBC) Politiikkaradio (Politics Radio) show last week. Then the only question was when this kind of statement would be published.



You would think British politicians and media would know their Erskine May better than some foreign journalists.

[Catfish]

Just on the TV: Aggregateiq and brexit!
A canadian company
lmao

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/31/aggregateiq-canadian-tech-brexit-data-riddle-cambridge-analytica
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/24/aggregateiq-data-firm-link-raises-leave-group-questions
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/25/the-chaotic-triumph-of-arron-banks-the-bad-boy-of-brexit

Too late anyway, lies are facts now.

[Mr Quatro]

Just a seed thought, "what if someone against UK departing from EU is being bribed to set up a road block or defend EU for money or even sexual favors"?

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Just a seed thought, "what if someone against UK departing from EU is being bribed to set up a road block or defend EU for money or even sexual favors"?As the Russia card is in fashion at these days: "What if Russia is exercising "divide and conquer" policy by bribing anti-EU inviduals to make sure Mrs. May's deal never goes through and the UK falls outside the EU without a deal? You known all those beautiful Russian girls..."

Could we stay in facts ("alternative" or actual) instead of conspiracy theories? I'm sure there are lot of people with various interest playing their own games, but its unlikely that our theories would ever match reality.

[Mr Quatro]

Could we stay in facts ("alternative" or actual) instead of conspiracy theories? I'm sure there are lot of people with various interest playing their own games, but its unlikely that our theories would ever match reality.

If someone gets caught before the final decision to stay or go it is no longer a theory.

[Jimbuna]

The bedlam within the party has just been turned up.

Conservative MPs are orchestrating against a potential leadership campaign by Boris Johnson, with several talking of resigning the whip if he were to become party leader.

With Tories convinced that Theresa May’s days in No 10 are numbered, MPs are feverishly discussing who will seek to replace her, how organised the teams are and whether a general election would be necessary.

Johnson is the current favourite of Brexit-backing Tory activists, who will pick the leader out of a final two candidates. However, the former London mayor would first have to clear the hurdle of convincing Conservative MPs to put him on the final list of two.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tory-mps-vow-to-quit-party-if-boris-johnson-becomes-leader/ar-BBUYyD8?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout#image=1

[Skybird]

The parties all are a zoo. Question is whether the public would support" Johnson still? If the public has some sense of reason left - which is a big IF, I admit - then he must be a burnt name by now.

[Skybird]

As the Russia card is in fashion at these days: "What if Russia is exercising "divide and conquer" policy by bribing anti-EU inviduals to make sure Mrs. May's deal never goes through and the UK falls outside the EU without a deal? You known all those beautiful Russian girls..."

Could we stay in facts ("alternative" or actual) instead of conspiracy theories? I'm sure there are lot of people with various interest playing their own games, but its unlikely that our theories would ever match reality.
The Russian support for Trump, Brexit, rightwingers across Europe, all is about divide et impera and driving a wedge between America and Europe indeed. They do not necessarily agree with these people'S and movements ideologies and views, but they are only useful idiots (Lenin). They use them to spread unrest and desintegration.


Its war without military means, plain and simple. The barrage of cyberattacks also must be seen in this ligth, it is not only abou economic espionage and military intel gathering, but about destabilization of social integrity of Western countries.


The reply to that nevertheless cna not just be to stop Brexit and enforce EU continental centralism and planned economy and paternalistically commanding people around for "their own better well-being".



The eU brought itself into this situation all by itself, needlessly, by just always wanting to be ever more and more. It has overstretched its frontlines of claims for what it wants to be. And by that it has rightfully earned plenty of antipathy and hostility.

[Catfish]

"Brexit, lies, and rich folk
The Leave campaign was built on lies, and as the UK hurtles toward the brink the liars who told them are laughing all the way to the bank."

"For Rees-Mogg and Farage the benefits that Brexit can deliver the ultra-rich is worth every lie they tell."

Lies, lies and more lies (https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/brexit-lies-and-rich-folk/)


quote Skybird:
The eU brought itself into this situation all by itself, needlessly, by just always wanting to be ever more and more. It has overstretched its frontlines of claims for what it wants to be. And by that it has rightfully earned plenty of antipathy and hostilityI am not so sure here.
The EU bureaucrats' number altogether is a tenth of what the UK has.
Also the EU is not a state, nor has it a "government", instead it is all decided by the members' voting. Lobbying by all (including Germany)? Of course. Bureaucracy? Of course. Things going wrong, the EU wanting too much? Of course.

However it has not deserved the malignant attacks.
Especially not if those attacks come from those liars who are only interested in their own wealth and forthcoming, bribed by Russia, or trying to expand the US hegemony.

You want to see the EU go all down the drain. I don't. EU reforms have a priority, and it would have better been with the UK as advisors, but all in all the EU is much better than its reputation.

[STEED]

Today's politicans are a bloody disgrace and repocent no one but themselves. The last two years has been like a lighthouse light shinning full on them for all too see and yet people will still go out and vote for these swine.

We need massive reforms that will shack the very bedrock Westminster sits on, we need to clean up Westminster and sweep away the deadwood that sits there. Don't fool yourself that this is a glitch in British politics and things will get better.

No they will not and it will get worst than this, sit back and watch the horror show unfold. Without change the rot at Westminster will only get worst.

[Jimbuna]

A 'Trump' take on the situation.

The current deadlock over Brexit and possible delay to the UK's planned leaving date of 29 March suggests democracy in the UK is "all but dead", Donald Trump Jr has claimed.

Mr Trump Jr, who is the US president's son but holds no political position, wrote a column in the Daily Telegraph.

In it, he criticises PM Theresa May for having "ignored advice from my father".

Mr Trump Jr added that "the will of the people is likely to be ignored" because of "elite" politicians in Brussels.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47634365

[Skybird]

Since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and German reunification, any reasonable American must indeed ask himself whether this pityful nuthouse show that the Europe versus EU showtrain has staged in the past 25 years is worth the hassle and heavy and military engagement. This "ally" does not strengthen the US, but weakens it, it is a burden, ans it is not seriously willing to be anything else than just this: a burden. And I do not demand a European position of vasallship here, but just ask for some own political and military potence of Europe.

I could and would not think bad of America if it would decide to cut ties with Europe and leave it to itself. If I were in a position to decide American foreign diplomacy and politics, I would go this way. This Europe as an ally is more a burden than anything positive. Some tax generation from eu companies producing in the US do not fundamentally change that, but are more of just a footnote. Trade may be great, but the sideeffects from having this arrangement with the European nuthouse are severe. And mean little positive for America. The arena America needs to care for, lies somwhere else.

I think it is just sentimentality about historic family roots that still causes American patience to be seen, nothing more. Especially the Germans seem to will to still rely on this, but I think it is a very risky fundament to bet your money on.

The way Brexit goes must raise hairs in the necks of people in Washington, with different reasons for Dems and Reps, but still...

[Catfish]

^ Compared to the economical situation the US spends too much for the military, but this would still be true without Europe. The dollar as an international currency being paid for oil is what keeps the economy going. China is the competitor when it comes to gathering influence and challenging the US hegemony.

[Jimbuna]

Stephen Hepburn: Sex harassment claims investigated by Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47641273

Back in the day before I retired this guy was an associate of mine :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Tusk is currently being reported pf having said a short delay to Brexit is possible if Parliament accept Mays deal.

[Jimbuna]

Tusk is currently being reported as having said a short delay to Brexit is possible if Parliament accept Mays deal.

[STEED]

I see that useless PM is now putting all the blame on Parliament, sounds like Hitler blaming his generals for losing the war. Sounds to me she will not take her share of the blame, worst PM to date beating Gordon Brown hands down.

[Reece]

Yes there are so many that promise a lot but deliver nothing!! :nope:

[Jimbuna]

I see that useless PM is now putting all the blame on Parliament, sounds like Hitler blaming his generals for losing the war. Sounds to me she will not take her share of the blame, worst PM to date beating Gordon Brown hands down.

Nobody will ever beat Mr Foot.

[Jimbuna]

EU rejects May's request for three-month delay.

The European Union is poised to take control of Britain’s exit by rejecting Theresa May’s request for a three-month delay and setting a new withdrawal date of no later than 22 May.

The prime minister is seeking an extension of the negotiating period to 30 June to allow the necessary legislation to be passed should she finally get MPs to back her deal next week.

But EU ambassadors at a meeting late on Wednesday night agreed that the risks of having the UK as a member state beyond 23 May, when European elections are due, were too high.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-eu-rejects-mays-request-for-three-month-delay/ar-BBV2MPX?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Well, there it is folks...game set and match.

I should imagine this will end Mays political career and bring about a revocation of Article 50.

The root problem of all this was Mays willingness to sign a surrender document!!

[Skybird]

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-1407948-860_poster_16x9-toxt-1407948.jpg



:har:




http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-1407939-galleryV9-sfml-1407939.jpg




http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-1407952-galleryV9-hyhi-1407952.jpg




http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-1407941-galleryV9-rdmm-1407941.jpg

[Skybird]

The root problem of all this was Mays willingness to sign a surrender document!!


This.



Either done intentionally, then its conspiracy against the people's vote. Or done unaware, then it qualifies for the stupidiest act of a PM since Blair signed in for the war2003.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgur.com/lsZZB5Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cqf7AXe.jpg

[skidman]

The root problem of all this was Mays willingness to sign a surrender document!!

No, the root problem was the side that had less pull overestimated their prospects right from the start.

[STEED]

It could be a interesting evening from 6pm onwards but I'm not holding my breath.

[Skybird]

It could be a interesting evening from 6pm onwards
I doubt you will find anyone in Brussel EU headquarters sharing that assessment.

China. Trumponomics. FIAT money crisis. Russia. Mass migration. All would need getting thought about, and planned for.

Instead: Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, and after that: Brexit, and more Brexit.

[STEED]

BREAKING NEWS

EU AGREES DRAFT EXTENSION TO MAY 27TH IF PM MAY's BILL GOES THOUGH PARLIAMENT.


https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-heads-to-brussels-seeking-brexit-delay-after-angering-mps-11671443

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47648565

[Mr Quatro]

Is this good or bad? I see a lot of panic here ... I hate to bring up the G word, but God certainly knows which side he is on :yep:

https://news.yahoo.com/million-sign-petition-stop-brexit-175222366.html

London (AFP) - More than a million people have signed an online petition asking the British government to stop Brexit within 214 hours, briefly crashing the site Thursday during a surge in support.

[Skybird]

The EU is not as adamant as it seems. German main channel TV news just said that if the deal gets rejected in third attempt, they would hold another Brexit summit next week and then decide that they will offer the UK a longterm delay, I assume of several years, so that no no-deal- Brexit happens. And it also means the Ul stays as member of the EU until... well, until the end of time, it seems.



When Western diplomats talk of ultimatums, I just must break out in laughter.



Lets face it, either the UK

1. gets negotiated into eternity and all the time stays as member of the EU, or

2. it accepts the surrender deal and stays in the customs union and having no rights to negotiate its own independent trade agreements with other non-EU nations and thus it would be a vasall of the EU once the Backstop has been activated, needing to obey but having no say, or

3. it withdraws the Brexit and stays in the EU.


You are ours, from then until eternity! :yeah:


https://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f382/Guardman/TheFamilyofferquote.jpg

[mapuc]

I still say it should have been the other way around.

First the country leave the EU, thereafter they can discuss further agreement and other things.

Markus

[Skybird]

I still say it should have been the other way around.

First the country leave the EU, thereafter they can discuss further agreement and other things.

Markus
That ignore sone thing, and that is that past decisions and investements and costs were shared and co-authorised by British governments. In parts these need to be "decluttered" again. In oarts the negotiatiosn about the soc-alled divorce bill, the amount of money Londown shoudl pay to thge Eu in case of a with-deal Brexit, was about that. Whether the numbers given by both sides were justfiied or not, is another thing - that also had to be talked about.



The problem of the possibility of a Backstop called by the EU and then maintained forever during which the UK must obey the custom union'S rules, has no say on these things, must obey certani EU regulations and laws and , most importantly, is not allowed to negotiate new economic deals with non-EU actors, touches upon what you say. And you see what mess comes from it. The EU making promises of non-binding, legally irrelevant meaning that it mans it well and will not hurt the UK :) and will be constructive on an ending of a Backstop period, means nothing since only what can be sued for at court and legally enforced, is of relevance. The EU managed to get this trump card, and May was retarded enough to sign and accept it. Now that it holds this trunmp card, the EU will not voluntarily give it up again. And why should it? The EU has the UK by its balls, and has its iron fists around the UK's throat as well. Better the negotiation game could not have gone for the EU, it scored on all really important issues and scored total defeat of he UK over the Backstop rule when May signed it.



There is no "compromise" possible. The EU cannot afford to allow London the final word on when a triggered Backstop period shall end, and the EU cannot accept a fixed timeframe for any triggered Backstop as well, because then London would have per se the option to just sit it out, and after that walk away happily. London however cannot accept that the EU can hold a knife at the UK's throat forever and keep it in Backstop custody forever, blocking its sovereignty and constantly threatening its most vital survival interests of making new trade deals outside a customs union. Both poositions are totally, absolutely irreconcilable. One side will loose all over this, and the other side will win all over this. There is no "compromise" imaginable, one side will end up holding the final, ultimate trump, the other side will lose its cause.



I realised late the importance of the Irish question, since I were not so familiar with the general matter of Northern Ireland two years ago. But when it finally dawned on me, I immediately understood that this issue had all potential to make any negotiations unneeded and why a hard Brexit should have been the only option taken serious by London. Instead, one has choosen to endlessly deny reality. And so here we are where we are now. And it seems the reality denial continues.



If Brexit should have any meaning of the original idea, Londown cannot and never should accepot the Backstop rule being in hands of the EU. Either you are about your sovereignty, or you are not.



And one thign also should be understood. The past going of procedures has made the UK many enemie in the EU. It will not be forgotten, and not easiyl forgiven even if London cancels Brexit alltogether. The Britons will remain to be the running joke inside the EU for many years to come. If they cancel brexit now, they tell somehtign about themselves by that, sicne they already have pushed this far. And what it says about them then is really nothing I would consider to be a compliment of respectability. They have oushed too far, now they have to finish the journey, no matter the outcome. That they have wasted most of the past 24 months with dreaming only, certainly does not help to provide them with a soft ride. They were in for a rough ride form beginning on - but they did their best to make it even much rougher than originally was needed. This infantile daydreaming is what stunned me more in all this than anything else. And they still do not stop! Thats not the Britain that I expected two years ago. Not even a shadow of it. I certainly lost quite some illusions myself, too - and I thought that I do not have many political illusions left.

[Skybird]

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47660019

What for, oh dear - what for...?

[Jimbuna]

I think I'm losing the will to live :nope:

[STEED]

I think I'm losing the will to live :nope:
Hang in there jim, you have come this far stick around for bright new future or civil war. :03:

Time I bashed the EU...
I am fed up with the EU saying that is it no more talks its all done and dusted and yet they have shown how stupid they are. Stick by what you said the first time or shut your bloody gobs ups you morons!

PS JIM
Treat yourself to a bombay bad boy pot noodle and a nice cold beer and think of me in work tonight....Are you..:haha:

[Skybird]

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-1409483-860_galleryfree-jofu-1409483.jpg
I cannot believe that the EU includes a scenario where after April 12th the UK will ask for a "long delay" and will participate in EU elections - which implies that the paralysing, endless, neverending story will continue to wreck EU internal policya-formign FOR YEARS TO COME.


Obviously the EU knows not what else to do than to debate Brexit details. Which tells us something on how calm, stable and reassuring world affairs must be. It seems they fear the ymust dioe of boredom if not having Brexit to talk of.



No, serious: it seems the EU aims at having the British public go to vote in the eU elections and that this will activate resostence to the Brexit ever being declared formally valid due to a sudden spike of even more EU love in the UK, due to the wonderful elections.



Stunk.

[STEED]

I hear from the news MayBot may not bring that garbage withdrawal bill back next week. Well we shall see, if that is the case we head in to a two week extension.

[Jimbuna]

I'm beginning to think in terms of indicative voting by Parliament.

[Skybird]

German media refer to the Sunday Times who gets quoted with that eleven ministers plan a revolt against May and that she will be no more there "in ten days". Its unclear who will become interim PM.

[Mr Quatro]

German media refer to the Sunday Times who gets quoted with that eleven ministers plan a revolt against May and that she will be no more there "in ten days". Its unclear who will become interim PM.

Five word story game voted Steed to be the next PM ... :yep:

[STEED]

Five word story game voted Steed to be the next PM ... :yep:

:hmmm: :) :03:



Brexit: Theresa May urged to quit to help deal passTheresa May could gain support for her Brexit deal if she promises to stand down as prime minister, senior Conservatives have told the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47683059

Oh come on they tried to remove her and failed big time, why do they think she will step down now?



The woman who started the record-breaking anti-Brexit petition says she is "shaking like a leaf" after receiving three death threats by phone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275

This women and every one else has the right too put up a petition. People who act like that need locking up or if I got my way six months in the stocks.

[Jimbuna]

German media refer to the Sunday Times who gets quoted with that eleven ministers plan a revolt against May and that she will be no more there "in ten days". Its unclear who will become interim PM.

I'm thinking it could be her de facto deputy David Lidington.

Heaven forbid it be Michael Gove but I reckon he'll be more interested in the job on a more permanent basis.

[STEED]

I'm thinking it could be her de facto deputy David Lidington.

No, he has ruled himself out, hes on the BBC News has I post this.

[Skybird]

Another twist in reason. In what way does it help to get a better deal from the EU if May gets replaced? The EU's stance will stay unaltered by that. And in what way do some seem to think that they must reject her deal if she stays, but will apprive it if she leaves? If her deal is through, the name holding the office ir irrelevant than.

Nothing makes any sense anymore. Not even rejecting this senselessness makes sense anymore. It seems it does not even make sense anymore to state that there is a difference between things making sense and things making no sense.

BTW, how dumb must somebody be to take over as PM in THIS situation...??? Its like becoming captain on the Titanic while the band on deck already had stopped playing.


What have I just said? I feel so dizzy.

[STEED]

May has said she will step down before the general election and that is next year so why are these morons pushing now...Oh wait I forgot.

LUST FOR POWER! :o

[Jimbuna]

Another twist in reason. In what way does it help to get a better deal from the EU if May gets replaced? The EU's stance will stay unaltered by that. And in what way do some seem to think that they must reject her deal if she stays, but will apprive it if she leaves? If her deal is through, the name holding the office ir irrelevant than.

Nothing makes any sense anymore. Not even rejecting this senselessness makes sense anymore. It seems it does not even make sense anymore to state that there is a difference between things making sense and things making no sense.

BTW, how dumb must somebody be to take over as PM in THIS situation...??? Its like becoming captain on the Titanic while the band on deck already had stopped playing.


What have I just said? I feel so dizzy.

Yes....everything now looks as clear as...mud.

[mapuc]

Oh beware or have fear

You can't fight such a thing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/uri-geller-promises-to-stop-brexit-using-telepathy

(Irony may have been used)

Markus

[STEED]

^Oh heck it must be a new super blood moon. :rolleyes:

[Reece]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0INyCmHlNylks9O/giphy.gif

[bstanko6]

Can I assume that politics over in the U.K. Is as messed up as here in the states?

[Reece]

Don't you mean Australia? :hmmm:

[Catfish]

Must have meant Germany.

[bstanko6]

Sorry... UK to me means anything outside the states!!!

[Catfish]

^ lol ok :D

[Catfish]

Seems not all have lost their humour..
"I have seen smarter cabinets at Ikea"
Millions demonstrate against brexit (or May's brexit) in London
Link: Fromage not Farage (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit), the best signs and sights on the People's Vote march
:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Oh beware or have fear

You can't fight such a thing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/uri-geller-promises-to-stop-brexit-using-telepathy

(Irony may have been used)

Markus

:har:

[Jimbuna]

Sorry... UK to me means anything outside the states!!!

Then most definitely 'YES' :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: Not enough support for Brexit deal vote yet, says PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47689415

Who'd of guessed that!! :o

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fbrexitk rise_europa_hat_20_jahre_nicht_zugehoert_1


First part.

[STEED]

(((BREAKING NEWS)))

Parliament takes control!

We have no Goverment on brexit!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47701591

[Reece]

This just goes from bad to worse, I hate politicians!! :nope:
STEED on horseback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTZ5tqas1k

[STEED]

We have only two options take the deal or WTO. I am now ruling out staying as the evidence is clear after years of rocking the boat the EU will gladly see the UK got rid of, so if that remainder lot at Westminster think they can remain they are in for a rude awakening.


I see the Mogg has made himself look like a joker now saying back the deal. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

On Monday night, MPs voted in favour of Conservative backbencher Sir Oliver Letwin's cross-party amendment, which will allow MPs to put forward motions relating to Brexit - most likely a series of so-called indicative votes.

Because of this, MPs will be able to vote on a number of options on Wednesday - likely to include a "softer Brexit", a customs union with the EU and another referendum - designed to test the will of Parliament to see what, if anything, commands a majority.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47704451

I should imagine this has the potential to turn into a right royal shambles and the Commons may well end up showing the UK public how out of touch they are with them.

[Jimbuna]

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox told a meeting of the Cabinet that failure to pass Mrs May's plan in the coming weeks would almost inevitably lead to an election.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/is-britain-plunging-into-a-general-election-rebel-mps-vote-to-seize-control-of-brexit-tomorrow-after-three-ministers-quit-to-join-them-and-mays-allies-warn-poll-that-could-be-weeks-away-if-the-chaos-goes-on/ar-BBVdSGg?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Now that the lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum there is the strongest possibility yet that May could well have the last laugh and call a snap election prior to riding off in the sunset for what she will no doubt feel is a well earned retirement from politics.

[Jimbuna]

Yet another 'perk' our so-called EU friends enjoy at our expense!!

https://i.imgur.com/llTgFRh.jpg

[skidman]

Yet another 'perk' our so-called EU friends enjoy at our expense!!

https://i.imgur.com/llTgFRh.jpg

Hm. Yes.

https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/

"The size of the difference between the amount the UK pays out and the amount it receives is partly because foreign citizens in Britain run up less than half as many costs which might be covered under these schemes as British citizens abroad. However, government studies suggest that the NHS is also simply failing to charge when it is supposed to – recouping only a fraction of what should be around £340m from other countries."

In short, British people abroad run up more health care costs than do EEA and Swiss people in the UK. As the NHS’s Paul MacNaught told the Commons Health Committee, this is largely a consequence of “the volume of UK insured pensioners living in other EEA countries compared with the volume of EEA insured pensioners living here.”

Facts? Who needs them when you have got hate?

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fbrexitk rise_europa_hat_20_jahre_nicht_zugehoert_1


First part.


Ands here is part two:


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fbrexitk rise_europa_hat_20_jahre_nicht_zugehoert_2_

[STEED]

Early news repots MayBot will name the date she steps down to get her withdraw deal passed. Fat chance the DUP is dead against it.

[Catfish]

Yet another 'perk' our so-called EU friends enjoy at our expense!!

https://i.imgur.com/llTgFRh.jpg

"Your so-called EU friends enjoy at our expense"?
Thank you Jim, we see how very special you are every day now, in the UK :D

And what a NONSENSE!
"UK pays Germany health care blah, and Germany pays UK blah"
Which is the source for this, UKIP?

How many Germans with german citizenship do live in the UK and are being cared for by german health care compared to Uk citizens living in Germany?
Who do you think does the UK pay in Europe, or Germany? It is UK citizens living here! Since they are UK citizens they are of course cared for by the UK health system.
Making up BS propaganda to make it look as if the UK gives money to Europe for nothing. God ! :doh:

Some Uk people living here (and speaking of thousands alone in lower Saxony) have asked for german citizenship because they are unsure about the future after brexit, especially when it comes to health care. And it will then cost them more. Does that ring a bell for anyone ?

[Reece]

That throws a spanner in the works!! Time for a response Jim, STEED? :hmmm:

[STEED]

That throws a spanner in the works!! Time for a response Jim, STEED? :hmmm:


As I did not post it count me out. :):03:


I don't trust figures as there like bank digits so easy to manipulate.

[Skybird]

Early news repots MayBot will name the date she steps down to get her withdraw deal passed. Fat chance the DUP is dead against it.
So this all has degenerated into a game about pure personal animsoities then? I mean her deal gets not voted for when she stays, but when she leaves, the very same deal with the very same cinditions get passed? Have they now lost all remaning marbles?


They steal breathing air.

[STEED]

Brexit: Petition to revoke Article 50 to be debated next weekhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47711206

Well that will be interesting as the EU wants rid of us in the next two weeks. I am surprised those pigs got time to debate this after all their time is playing the brexit game soon too be out as a board game. :03:

[Jimbuna]

That throws a spanner in the works!! Time for a response Jim, STEED? :hmmm:

https://i.imgur.com/EwfWYNn.gif

[Jimbuna]

So this all has degenerated into a game about pure personal animsoities then? I mean her deal gets not voted for when she stays, but when she leaves, the very same deal with the very same cinditions get passed? Have they now lost all remaning marbles?


They steal breathing air.

You know just how bad matters are when you read articles like this.

Sorry, but I WILL back May's deal, says Rees-Mogg: Key Eurosceptic dramatically changes his mind and warns other hardliners they risk losing Brexit altogether as Boris hints that he will switch too.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/sorry-but-i-will-back-mays-deal-says-rees-mogg-key-eurosceptic-dramatically-changes-his-mind-and-warns-other-hardliners-they-risk-losing-brexit-altogether-as-boris-hints-that-he-will-switch-too/ar-BBVgr9j?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Catfish]

Just imagine the UK stayed in the EU, and Rees-Mogg would have shifted his business to Ireland in vain :03:

[Catfish]

Pro brexit march: 350 signed up, 65 and a dog appeared, and the march was cancelled "due to security reasons". Everyone joining the march was requested to pay 50 pounds. (Farage has got his kids German passports to pay for after all).
Seems this pro-brexit march was a trojan horse from the EU. A conspiracy!

Got a laugh out of this:
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1106848145890295808

[blackswan40]

Time to put the Kettle on make a brew granny says things always look better after a brew.
I'll put on some music on the radiogram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mN8wZB8ae8

[Catfish]

So this all has degenerated into a game about pure personal animsoities then? I mean her deal gets not voted for when she stays, but when she leaves, the very same deal with the very same cinditions get passed? Have they now lost all remaning marbles? [...]

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not. :nope:

Yep, it's quite frightening when you consider what might lie ahead :yep:

[Skybird]

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not. :nope:
Do I misunderstand something there? If the price for passing the May Brexit deal is May stepping down, and she steps down, the "agreement" would mean the deal gets passed. Then you have a soft Brexit with the option of Backstop called up by the EU, the parliament then would hav edecided so. How could this mean that the hardliners want to destroy it when they just have passed it?

[Catfish]

[...] If the price for passing the May Brexit deal is May stepping down, and she steps down, the "agreement" would mean the deal gets passed. Then you have a soft Brexit with the option of Backstop called up by the EU, the parliament then would have decided so. How could this mean that the hardliners want to destroy it when they just have passed it?

Rees-Mogg or Johnson or whatever their names are do not want this kind of "soft" brexit, and they do not want to stay. They fear that if May's deal fails, the UK will stay in the EU and some rich brexitears will lose their investments. So they support her, better this brexit than none.

They obviously have no own plan or idea, and it is not necessary after all, if they go out the hard way.

So after they have secured their majority they will do all to get their "hard" brexit, at least this is what read between Mogg's lines. Not that i claim to really understand what is going on there.

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.

[Jimbuna]

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.

On that we certainly both agree :yep:

My biggesr fear now is the Tories are in total disarray and that could lead to a general election with Steptoe having a fair chance of winning.

[Skybird]

Rees-Mogg or Johnson or whatever their names are do not want this kind of "soft" brexit, and they do not want to stay. They fear that if May's deal fails, the UK will stay in the EU and some rich brexitears will lose their investments. So they support her, better this brexit than none.

They obviously have no own plan or idea, and it is not necessary after all, if they go out the hard way.

So after they have secured their majority they will do all to get their "hard" brexit, at least this is what read between Mogg's lines. Not that i claim to really understand what is going on there.

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.
Yeah yeah I know all that, but it doe snot answer my question. If May made it the condition , the price for her withdrawel that parliament accepts the soft Brexit plus Backstop deal the negotiated, and this deal netween her and parliament gets carried out, the terms like this, the conditions fulfilled, then the Brexit deal of May, unaltered, is passed, with May not being PM anymore. The very same deal would not get passed if May stays.

So the question is whether parliament is really about the UK-EU Brexit deal's conditions, or the personell matter of May. Because the Brexit deal as negotiated with the EU, would be the same.

That Johnson and Corbyn want to fly to the moon and do samba there, does not change this.

What it should be about, is the Brexit conditions between the UK and the EU. This should be the focus for house memebers when making their decision. What it really seems to be about now is only the personnel matter of May.

[Catfish]

They just want to divert from their own incompetence, they had and have no plan. Things work best for them when the economy goes down, at least for the planned interval, since they have betted on an economic downfall of the UK.
What it really seems to be about now is only the personnel matter of May. The blame game is now on against May, until it will return to the EU as the scapegoat.

[skidman]

Name your poison:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P ?

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-indicative-votes-how-it-works-amendment-mps-bercow-parliament

For me it's B. Stop the madness.

[STEED]

Here we go folks eight all in one vote tonight on the Brexit options so settle back with a cup of coffee and play some music in the background, I got my selection of "Heart" on.


But just before the kick off some news..


Theresa May has promised Tory MPs she will stand down if they back her EU withdrawal deal.

She told backbench Tories: "I am prepared to leave this job earlier than I intended in order to do what is right for our country and our party."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47725529
Who will replace her? Who cares their all load of....:o


EARLY NEWS - ERG Mogg will support the Government if the DUP abstains. Buffoon Boris reported he too will do the same.


15 to 20 ERG MP's reported will not support the Government.

DUP confirm they can not back the Government.
https://news.sky.com/story/dup-wont-back-brexit-deal-while-it-poses-threat-to-integrity-of-uk-11676810




I will be updating this post this evening too keep jim happy not multi rapid posts.






More to follow..



No-deal Brexit - Leave the EU on 12 April without a deal - Tory MP John Baron




Common Market 2.0 - The UK joins the European Economic Area and negotiates a temporary customs union until alternative arrangements can be found - Tory MP Nick Boles




EFTA/EEA - Similar to Common Market 2.0 but rejects any kind of customs union with the EU and says the Irish backstop must be replaced with alternative arrangements - Tory MP George Eustice




Customs union - Calls for the UK to negotiate a permanent customs union with the EU after Brexit - Tory MP Ken Clarke




Labour's alternative plan - A customs union with the EU and "close alignment" with the single market - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn




Revoke Article 50 - Cancel Brexit if the UK gets within days of leaving without a deal. MPs would be asked to vote on a no-deal exit and if they rejected that, Article 50 would be revoked - SNP MP Joanna Cherry




Confirmatory public vote - Parliament cannot ratify or implement any agreement on the UK's withdrawal and future relationship "unless and until they have been approved by the people of the UK in a confirmatory public ballot" - Labour MP Margaret Beckett




Malthouse Plan B - The UK makes its budgetary contributions to the EU to the end of 2020 and agrees with the EU a period of two years in which UK goods have full access to the EU - Tory MP Marcus Fysh

RESULTS ALL REJECTED

No-deal Brexit NO
Common Market 2.0 NO
EFTA/EEA NO
Customs union NO
Labour's alternative plan NO
Revoke Article 50 NO
Confirmatory public vote NO
Malthouse Plan B NO


RESULT ON -
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT -


MPs back delaying Brexit
The House of Commons has overwhelmingly voted in favour of changing the date of Brexit in UK law, following the EU's granting of an extension to the Article 50 negotiating period.
Ayes: 441
Noes: 105
Majority: 336





MPs fail to back any alternative Brexit plan
The results of the indicative votes in the Commons have just been announced.
They are:
Option B: Leave the EU without a deal on 12th April
Ayes 160Noes 400
Option D: Norway + model (remain in single market, customs arrangement, EFTA)
Ayes 188
Noes 283
Option H: Norway model, without a customs union (EEA + EFTA).
Ayes: 65Noes: 377
Option J: Leave the EU with a UK-wide customs union.
Ayes: 264Noes: 272
Option K: Permanent customs union, including alignment with single market on future EU rights and regulations
Ayes: 237Noes: 307
Option L: Revoke Article 50 if no-deal Brexit is not explicitly approved by MPs a day before we are due to leave
Ayes: 184Noes: 293
Option M: Any withdrawal agreement must be put to the public in a ‘confirmatory’ second referendum
Ayes: 268Noes: 295
Option O: If no withdrawal agreement agreed, seek "standstill" agreement with the EU while negotiating trade deal
Ayes: 139Noes: 422



POST AWAY FOLKS, ALL DONE FOR NOW.

[Skybird]

I still fail to see any sign of reasonability in this linking between her withdrawel, and her deal with the EU being passed. Nothing I heard and red about it in the past 48 hours gave me a clue.

If I were a member of house, and have my arguments to oppose her deal with the EU, why would I want to pass it if she steps back...? In how far does this withdrawel of her change the conditions of the Brexit treaty with the EU that I originally had and still have my arguments against?? Can somebody please explain this nonsense to me.

Isnt the issue of who is PM completely irrelevant? Isnt it the conditions of the treaty with the eU that is exclusively relevant?

[STEED]

Well looks like two options only remain, 2nd referendum or a general election.

[mapuc]

Have been following live transmission from the English parliament throughout the evening and I'm wondering how the English people is feeling about this

And I can't figure out if it's a horror, thriller or a comedian they are witness to from the English parliament.

Markus

[Skybird]

Now that May has masterfully locked down each and everything, I dare a bet:


May will be forced out. And then they hold a second referendum. And then Brexit is over.



I forecast this with a probability of around 2:1.



And I stick to what I said severla times and assumed tro be a realistic option form beginning on: this is exactly the way the PM wanted to unfold and end this. She bnever was pro Brexit, and before the referendum she was ant-i Brexit. She had to find a way to prevent Brexit without the voters turning against the class. And it will be saids voters that now will end it. Much drama was needed to make this fake show convincing, and she got as much drama as one could demand.



Mission accomplished, objective acchieved.


A lot can be learned about how rotten and corrupt our democratic system is. Mind you, during the EU constitution dictate and three nations' people rejecting it, they just repeated it to get the result that they wanted, and England in the form of Gordon Brown , knowing that a referendum would reject it, did cancel/prevent it in the first alltogether.


I spit on this fake&freak show. When words mean nothing anymore, then neither meaningful communicaiton os possible nor trusting in anyone or anything is justified anymore. It all turns into noise, and waste of breath and time.



In our "democracies", the so-called elites create themselves the people that they want to have.

[skidman]

So,

the PM is officially a lame duck now

the government and the house are both dysfunctional

a second referendum would further increase disruption of the British people

GE would be the way to go, but there is not sufficient time (extension must end before the European election)

-> hard Brexit, almost everybody loses, Mercer, Bannon, Banks, Putin, CA and AIQ have won.

And who is to blame?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gz6mZYxS0A

[mapuc]

If a second referendum is coming I hope the pro-brexit will be higher then it was in the first referendum.

The spirit they have when needed.

Markus

[Skybird]

I do not think a second referendum will be won by Brexiteers. Many people who did not vote last time because they thought it would be refused anyway, this time will go voting (rise for anti-Brexit votes), and many pro-Brexiteers have been pissed and frustrated to death by the artistic programs shown by the primadonnas in the House of Commons and by May (drop for pro-Brexit votes). On the other hand, pro-Brexit camp most likely cannot activate any more voters than last time. So the ratio between pro and anti voters is likely to shift in favour of anti-Brexiteers, and when you consider that last time it was a relatively close outcome, it is then to be concluded that this time anti-Brexiteers would file in a substantial numerical superiority. If for no other reason than that all this mocking show only finally will come to an end.

I would assume 55-65% against Brexit.

My point always has been that then there has to be a third referendum, because somebody again will not like the result. And if in third referendum the result again is different, you must do a fourth. And if then the result changes again, you must do a fifth. And after that a sixth, of course.

Thats what you logically get when votings do not mean what their results show in the first going. They become a meaningless joke, like they also become when the alternatives you can vote on are not really different from each other.

[Catfish]

^ hmm, but all of the proposals have been turned down. No brexit without negotiatons, no new elections, but also no second referendum. So there will be no second referendum (even if that might be the wise thing to do, if anyone still gives a sh.. about democracy).

I still do not understand this, has May talked to no one before these test votings? :hmmm:

[Catfish]

If a second referendum is coming I hope the pro-brexit will be higher then it was in the first referendum.

The spirit they have when needed.

Markus

Care to elaborate what the UK will win with a brexit, in your opinion?

[Catfish]

@Skybird
It probably does not make much sense to hold 50+ referendums :haha:
Especially when a referendum is not binding, like the first one :shucks:

Imagine you vote for someone who claims that you will get twice the money, there's a fun fair in the sky, and the moon is made of green cheese.
So you believe, and vote for him.
And when he won due to your vote, he immediately runs away because he could not fulfil any of his promises and did not want to be held accountable for his lies. Instead he blames everyone else, and let others sort out the mess he created.

Don't you think a vote based on lies and false promises should be null and void?

[JU_88]

Care to elaborate what the UK will win with a brexit, in your opinion?

Overall the same thing we win by staying - not alot.

But at least we would be exempt from the EU's god awful Articles 11 & 13, Id suggest you have a read up on it and maybe then you can tell us why you are so keen to be apart of a union that wants to step in that particular direction.
https://gizmodo.com/the-end-of-all-thats-good-and-pure-about-the-internet-1826963763
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47708144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYU77Qqvy-U
Anyway, Enjoy posting links to news sites while you are still allowed to mate ;)

[Catfish]

^^ I asked Markus :O::03:

^ @Ju88: But no i do not like articles 11 and 13, and i do not like a lot of other EU stuff as well.
Which is why the EU as "legal entity" has to get a kick in the face, and has to be reformed, if not broken down and built up anew entirely. But how shall this work if everyone runs away like a rat, makes its own nationalist bs like Hungary, and has no say on matters anymore?

The reason for the "brexit" vote, the brexit leaders and the referendum's outcome has nothing to do with the articles you mentioned. And it has nothing to do with brexit leaders having good intentions for UK citizens, let alone with reality. They are betting for the UK economy to drop, and that's what is needed to make them richer, personally.

I'm no subscriber of the Financial Times, so i canot read your link. When the future does not look to rosy economically it is not all and always the fault of the EU though. You will find that out soon enough when having to trade via WTO rules, alone.

[STEED]

Have been following live transmission from the English parliament throughout the evening and I'm wondering how the English people is feeling about this

And I can't figure out if it's a horror, thriller or a comedian they are witness to from the English parliament.

Markus

Parliament is a circus full of clowns....FACT 100% TRUE.

[STEED]

EU's god awful Articles 11 & 13,

Some tech guys are saying this is the end of the Internet! :o

So Jim turn off the last light and pull the plug out, on the up side I will not have to fork out a bucket load of money to get on and use it.

[STEED]

The Brexit process remains in deadlock as MPs struggle to find a consensus on the next steps.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47729773

LOOK YOU STUPID BLOODY WOMAN WITHOUT THE DUP YOU WILL NOT GET THAT BLOODY BILL OF YOURS THOUGHT!!!!!!!:Kaleun_Mad:

HOW BLOODY THICK ARE YOU?

Jim has better odds cleaning up on the Grand National and winning a years worth of pot noodle.

[JU_88]

Some tech guys are saying this is the end of the Internet! :o
.

Its not the end, but it will inevitably give us an internet that more like China's.
:oops:

[STEED]

Its not the end, but it will inevitably give us an internet that more like China's.
:oops:

One guy produced a load of figures showing Internet use has been falling over the years and will end before 2040.

I will be in the old farts club by then leaving tech behind. :03:

[Skybird]

@Skybird
It probably does not make much sense to hold 50+ referendums :haha:
Especially when a referendum is not binding, like the first one :shucks:

Imagine you vote for someone who claims that you will get twice the money, there's a fun fair in the sky, and the moon is made of green cheese.
So you believe, and vote for him.
And when he won due to your vote, he immediately runs away because he could not fulfil any of his promises and did not want to be held accountable for his lies. Instead he blames everyone else, and let others sort out the mess he created.

Don't you think a vote based on lies and false promises should be null and void?
No, not one second: I prefer people learning finally - finally!! - a lesson from this and stop throwing their trust after anyone and stop voting for such people.


They will not learn if you save them from the consequences of their misjudgements every time.


And also: a rule is a rule. Either you follow the rules you set up, or you have referendum after referendum, election after electin and voting after voting on one and the same issue.


Maybe it would be wiser to work for a world where people can only decide on matters with boundaries as close so that they can overlook them with their very own eyes...?! :hmmm: You know by now that I am against big and deep states and nations as top-of-the-food chain-sovereigns. Very small prefectures. Local self-administration. No central power. Population sizes where necessarily "everybody knows everybody else", to exaggerate it a bit.

Everybody must be able to understand how his actions and dcisions influence the others, and how everyon else'S action on the other side of the prefecture territory has an effect on himself. Nobody shall be allowed to exlcude himself from the consequences of his decisons, and nboody is allowed to work in admnstraiton for a living, or live for the sake of somebody else. The more help somebdy takes from the others, the less he is allowed to cast his vote on community things. The more one gives to the community, the more his voice shall be heard. Adminstration work must be limited in time and legislation periods, and must not be paid for. It must be not a job, but an honour and a burden.


And administrators must be held accountable with all what they own and with all their property for their decisions. They shall not be allowed to influence money, to errect minting monopolies, and they shall not be allowed to spend on tic.



Much better than just randomly claim someobody lied to get voted for, so annuling the result but leave the poor rule not working good in place. Much of the misery of today'S poltics is due to kind of nepotism of oarties, non-transparency - and that poltical actor always cna just walk away, freely, with all they own and won, without the demand to fully throw themseves into damage comeosnation.



To think a poltician accepts responsibility by not being voted again for or by stepping down (and all too often his party later pushes him upwards the ladder again on another post) comoares to a bank robber who empties a bank safe by night, gets caught, and the bank does not demand the loot and the court does nto senetnce him and he can keep all the loot - the bank only ends his private bank account a that bank. Such a robber would not be thoght of as somebody who had been called to justice.


That Johnson already gets talked of again as the next big name once again and that he still has the ambition to become that indeed, illustrates what I mean. That man since years, and practically every major politician - should not hav ebeen heard of since many many years by now. And that is true for the political caste in practically every country.



And finally, a no-Brexit will not damage the EU, instead now will even allow it a big triumph. I will principally always oppose everything strengthenign the EU and sympathising with what weakens it. I oppose strong national state and deep state - but should allow to get owned by an even bigger, more corrupt continental centrally planned state where every problem now I complain about in state and monopolies and socialism and planned economy will be present in even a much, much bigger scale?


No. Not now. Not inthe future. At all cost: No. A free trade zone, yes. Not one bit more.

[Jimbuna]

You read it here first :smug:

I should imagine this has the potential to turn into a right royal shambles and the Commons may well end up showing the UK public how out of touch they are with them.

[JU_88]

The reason for the "brexit" vote, the brexit leaders and the referendum's outcome has nothing to do with the articles you mentioned. And it has nothing to do with brexit leaders having good intentions for UK citizens, let alone with reality. They are betting for the UK economy to drop, and that's what is needed to make them richer, personally..

Yes, there is some truth in that, but equally many of remain leaders are in it for same reasons, just in their case leaving will make them poorer personally - as it will hurt their vested interests.
Do you really think that wealthy Remainers like Richard Branston and George Osborne care any more or less about the welfare of UK citizens than the wealthy Brexiteers.?

Fact is nobody knows with absolute certainty what the economic effects of brexit will be

The Brexiteers vary from admitting there will be some short term pain to over come, to - it will be simple case of agreeing to a bunch of WTO trade agreements (as if it could be magically done overnight) and from their on we all be waving our union jacks as we become some global economic power house under some kind of Thatcherite Utopian fantasty. we just have to 'believe in Britain'

Remainers also vary from thinking, it will cost some jobs and cause short term damage - to sky falling in conspiracies like empty supermarkets, mass-deportings, mass exodus of Businesses, witch burnings, Making the county a giant Offshore tax haven for Nigel Farage and his mates etc.
Dint't i hear some nutcase remainers are building a bunker? :haha: Honestly there are some i think that just want it to be a huge disaster 'just so they can say i told you so' because they will look very silly if works out ok in the end and no one will listen to them anymore.

So yeah Blind optimism and Dooms day conspiracies aside, I'm leaning towards 'probably some but not a huge amount of noticeable change for the average joe'.
The truth is not usually found at the fringes.

As for what vote was about - that's maybe quite simple to some degree.
Class divide, Mostly People in nice thriving towns and cities voted to remain. Mostly people in not so nice towns and poorer / rural areas voted to leave. If you're doing ok, you don't need to change anything, if your doing badly you'll try anything for a change.

Anyone of course can argue that 'uneducated' leavers are misguided and 'ivory tower' remainers are out of touch.

[Jimbuna]

The DUP could well be the key to getting a resolution to this madness but so far (as expected) are refusing to change their stance.

Hypothetically, if a sizeable number of northern Labour MP's voted for Mays deal and by some monumental miracle it passed, would that threaten the break-up of the Union?

[Jimbuna]

The Conservative MP behind a series of indicative votes in the Commons has insisted the process could still find a consensus despite Wednesday night’s first attempt ending in deadlock, saying a final collapse of Theresa May’s deal would focus minds.

Eight votes on alternative Brexit options, put before the Commons after MPs seized control of the parliamentary process from the government, resulted in no majority for any of them, although the vote was close on one softer Brexit option.

Oliver Letwin, the Tory former minister whose amendment created the process, said this was to be expected, and that if May’s deal is defeated for a third time if put to MPs on Friday, this could forge unity if the only other option was no deal on 12 April.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-consensus-still-possible-after-commons-deadlock-says-letwin/ar-BBVkpBV?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Highly unlikely in my estimation but I'd like to think I could be wrong.

[Skybird]

The DUP could well be the key to getting a resolution to this madness but so far (as expected) are refusing to change their stance.

Hypothetically, if a sizeable number of northern Labour MP's voted for Mays deal and by some monumental miracle it passed, would that threaten the break-up of the Union?
What is your assessment of the mood - has the issue of Backstop lost in relevance in the perception of politicians? I did not hear it being mentioned since quite a "long" time now, and hardliners seem to focus now on accepting May'S deal with the EU (including the Backstop clause) and instead want to take control of the negotiations for new trade arrangements after Brexit. No talk of Backstop anymore - has all the concern vanished?

And what is left to negotiate for hardliners if the Backstop option looms like a threat over the Irish question? How could they seriously hope to negotiate tougher than May did with this option still being a possible scenario, and the EU being able to swing it any time like a ban hammer whenever the UK side demands anything "tough"? The EU then could say: "If you do not give up that demand, we will not accept your and our proposed settlement of the Irish question and activate Backstop."

Is that suddenly no concern anymore in media, public opinion, political assessment?


I tend to beleive that hardiners already once again started to base on another dangerous folly. That is that they could negotiate "tough" with the Backstop clause being agreed to. Thats like negotiating with the other holding a loaded unlocked pistol at your sleeve.

[Jimbuna]

What is your assessment of the mood - has the issue of Backstop lost in relevance in the perception of politicians? I did not hear it being mentioned since quite a "long" time now, and hardliners seem to focus now on accepting May'S deal with the EU (including the Backstop clause) and instead want to take control of the negotiations for new trade arrangements after Brexit. No talk of Backstop anymore - has all the concern vanished?

And what is left to negotiate for hardliners if the Backstop option looms like a threat over the Irish question? How could they seriously hope to negotiate tougher than May did with this option still being a possible scenario, and the EU being able to swing it any time like a ban hammer whenever the UK side demands anything "tough"? The EU then could say: "If you do not give up that demand, we will not accept your and our proposed settlement of the Irish question and activate Backstop."

Is that suddenly no concern anymore in media, public opinion, political assessment?


I tend to beleive that hardiners already once again started to base on another dangerous folly. That is that they could negotiate "tough" with the Backstop clause being agreed to. Thats like negotiating with the other holding a loaded unlocked pistol at your sleeve.

I don't think there is any appetite for doing anything that will threaten the Union but nor do I believe there is an overwhelming consensus of will for anything remotely tangible.

I'm thinking in terms of the eventual outcome being either a no deal Brexit or remain and my money is currently on the latter.

One thing is for sure....if Brexit does not happen, May can sit tight until December if she so wishes and a two thirds majority is needed to give a green light for a general election.

[Skybird]

No talk, no fear, no worrying , no mentioning of Backstop anymore? Have those politicians who said they were against May'S deal but now will probably vote for it if she leaves office, said anything about what has come of their concerns about Backstop? Does it even get explicitly mentioned?


Sounds to me there is a will to not solve the issue but to delay dealing with it. Will necessarily lead to a very tough wake-up one day.


And has become known anything on what substantial changes - that Bercow made a precondition to allow a third vote over May'S deal - do look like? His accentuation was strongly with regard to "substantial", not just cosmetical changes.

[Jimbuna]

The Backstop is still probably the major obstacle but you are correct in a sense that it is seldom mentioned publicly in recent times. My opinion is that May is hoping for sufficient support from Labour rebels to outnumber the ten votes the DUP have but that is probably only wishful thinking and will never become a reality.

As for Bercow....

On another day of Brexit chaos the Speaker warned the government that Mrs May's deal must have changed from the last time she brought it forward for a vote – and she cannot use a procedural device known as a ‘paving motion’ to get around him.

Bercow has already been accused of having Remainer sympathies and trying to thwart Britain leaving the EU.

May’s government insists that a new Brexit date agreed with the EU and clarifications to the backstop announced at a summit in Brussels amount to a ‘significant change’.

The Speaker alone will decide if the change is sufficient and is expected to announce the night before if he will block a third vote.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6856575/How-government-plans-John-Bercows-vote-sabotage.html

[Skybird]

The dead live longer. German news reports these statements by DUP, in summary. I do not know the English sources, so give a translation of the German text afterwards.

"Niemand aus der DUP wird das Austrittsabkommen so wie es ist unterstützen. Denn dadurch würde Nordirland im Warteraum für Verfassungsänderungen sitzen." (...) "Mit Blick darauf, dass die notwendigen Änderungen, die wir beim Backstop anstreben, nicht zwischen der Regierung und der EU gesichert worden sind, und auf das anhaltende strategische Risiko, das Nordirland am Ende der Übergangsphase in den Backstop-Vereinbarungen gefangen wäre, werden wir die Regierung nicht unterstützen, wenn sie eine dritte bedeutungsvolle Abstimmungen einreichen."

"No one from the DUP will support the exit agreement as it stands because it would put Northern Ireland in the waiting room for constitutional changes." (...) "" In view of the fact that the necessary changes we are aiming for at backstop have not been secured between the government and the EU, and the ongoing strategic risk that Northern Ireland will end up in the backstop at the end of the transition period, we will not support the government if they submit a third meaningful vote. "

So at least the Northern Irish still are aware of the bomb with the burning short fuse. And I tell the English: the EU will not give this trump card out of its hands. Everybody voting for May'S deal must know this and must be realistic about this. The Backstop will not be negotiated away. Its too nice to have the UK by its balls as if the EU would give that grip up.

[STEED]

Here we go again and again yes that daft old bat is going for a third attempt tomorrow by separating a section off the withdraw bill. All indications point to being rejected yet again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47740158

[Catfish]

Man with anti-Brexit badge detained at Gatwick. Link (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-badge-easyjet-passenger-bollocks-gatwick-airpport-eddie-brinsmead-stockham-a8842991.html)
:o

Comments:
"I think I’m going to get one of these badges and wear it.
Since the country is trying to imitate the US I’ll immediately sue when treated that way."

"My own strong impression is the Brexit virus is incredibly strong in organisations like the Border Force and the police."

[STEED]

Man with anti-Brexit badge detained at Gatwick. Link (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-badge-easyjet-passenger-bollocks-gatwick-airpport-eddie-brinsmead-stockham-a8842991.html)
:o

Comments:
"I think I’m going to get one of these badges and wear it.
Since the country is trying to imitate the US I’ll immediately sue when treated that way."

"My own strong impression is the Brexit virus is incredibly strong in organisations like the Border Force and the police."
Can not view, get greeted with please subscribe window. :doh:

[Reece]

"My own strong impression is the Brexit virus is incredibly strong in organisations like the Border Force and the police."
What did you say STEED, "Lets hope the virus spreads!" :D

[STEED]

What did you say STEED, "Lets hope the virus spreads!" :D

I'm going to build a beautiful wall around parliament. :03:

[Catfish]

Can not view, get greeted with please subscribe window. :doh:

Also at BBC, but not as much info: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-47724095

And here: Meet the man 'detained at Gatwick for wearing an anti-Brexit badge' (https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/28/meet-the-man-detained-at-gatwick-for-wearing-an-anti-brexit-badge)
"The referendum was illegal and corrupt. The British government even admitted it was, but because it was advisory, they carried on with it", he said. "To me, it is a travesty."

quote from Steed:
I'm going to build a beautiful wall around parliament. :03:And i bet it will be huuuuuuge :rotfl2:

[Catfish]

[...] Fact is nobody knows with absolute certainty what the economic effects of brexit will be [...]
Yep and some good arguments, although i don't believe in all of them :)

Brexit was "won" by manipulating xenophobia, and using hate. It was not about the economy. Lies, lies and more lies.
Theresa May lost the brexit vote because it was a lie. She was tasked with negotiating a deal that neither she nor anyone else could deliver on.

Some of those who publicly promoted brexit and then ran away:
- John Redwood advised his clients to get their money out of the UK
- Lord Lawson has become a permanent french resident
- Jacob Rees-Mogg moved his business to Dublin to stay in the free market
- Lord Ashcroft told british companies to move to Malta to stay in the EU
- Sir Jim Ratcliffe moved his billions to Monaco

^ So it is obvious that not all will have problems, they leave it to those left in the UK. :yep:

B.t.w. I have some business with Standard Life insurance, guess where they just moved? Hint: Out of England (https://www.newstalk.com/news/standard-life-move-e19bn-assets-ireland-840226).

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgur.com/IDFIqr7.jpg

[Skybird]

^


https://img.fotocommunity.com/ich-koennte-mich-totlachen-3c22cc0c-a7f2-4ece-b5f8-c23c098371af.jpg?height=1000

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgur.com/DLJBzF7.jpg

[Skybird]

https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/business6/uploads/survivefrance/original/3X/4/6/4627e8f08175edf9fe8f5de02ed3fef739cbef0a.jpg

[Skybird]

And a bit older, but still... :


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/07/30/cartoon-31072017_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqYsmWvrrUa2K5zmnFcEH9LLc mqy-7fBJEPzRCCqsNbg8.jpg?imwidth=450


:har:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.imgur.com/xaRyfuB.jpg

[STEED]

Round three results..

For 286

Against 344

Majority 58

Stand by for the mad dumb bitch to try for round four.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47752017

[STEED]

EU elections here we come, stand by for the worst of the UK as nazi skinheads get elected. My advice to the EU build a zoo for them.

Some minor calls calling for a general election but nothing serious coming out at the moment.

UK will now have to ask for a longer extension, the EU should say sod off but I doubt that.

Forget Brexit we should all go down London and say get these clowns out of parliament its time for a massive shack up.

[Skybird]

"Ice cream! Popcorn! ... Chocolate bars! Drinks! ... Drugs! Suicide machines!"

[Von Due]

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54731010_10155767227586148_6075510022224216064_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=4de96eb8322ab1ca225e9fcade15adbc&oe=5D509FF7


Seems legit.

[STEED]

Early report on Sky News that stupid woman is going for a fourth attempt may be next week!

British politics is the worst in the world its so bad it makes Australian policits look good as well as Germany's.

[ExFishermanBob]

'Fishing Boat Arrives at Brexit Protest on a Giant Truck - With a Marching Band'

Just another normal headline in Brexitland.
I've had less strange dreams than that.

[Skybird]

Early report on Sky News that stupid woman is going for a fourth attempt may be next week!




If that is true, then no matter what your stand is on Brexit: the precedence of trying to overcome the simple logic of majority voting - an agreed formality and rule, a questionable one maybe, but still: an agreed rule - by pushing it FOUR times then would make clear what the holy grail of democracy really is worth. Less than the rotten slime at the bottom of the garbage bin.


"Our Model T can be had in any colour you want as long as its black." - Herny Ford


Still these politics and policies and these politicians are not the origin of the flaws in the system, but they are just the system's consistent breeding result. Since the system is what it is, the politicians logically result in being what they are. They are the result of the system's production cycle that it was designed to attract and produce. One might be shocked if one was indifefrent for too long, butreally: one should not be surprised at all, if you think about it.


British politics is the worst in the world its so bad it makes Australian policits look good as well as Germany's.
Not really. It may seem so, since our drama unfolds in much slower slo-mo, but it just seems to be better. It isn't one bit different. ;) Mind you: after last elections, Merkel and the great coalition should not even be there by now. But they are, and that is not okay and morally fine and "democratic" at all. Plus the criminal money devaluation policy and the enormous tax regime and plundering of the future of the young ones and the erosion of infratructure and railway and military and... Germany is beign driven on wear, can one say that in English, translating the German phrase "etwas auf Verschleiß fahren"?

[STEED]

Early reports suggest the EU has reached the end of the road with the UK. We shall see if this is the case. :03:


I noticed my MP voted for the govenment after voting against twice last time. How crass....

[Skybird]

The EU wants it all, and it wants it any way.


https://www.politico.eu/pro/uk-cant-escape-irish-backstop-with-no-deal-brexit/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=20199f9627-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_03_29_05_42&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-20199f9627-190417541


The wet dream of EU gangsters: "The world is all ours, no matter what."

[Reece]

Early report on Sky News that stupid woman is going for a fourth attempt may be next week!

British politics is the worst in the world its so bad it makes Australian policits look good as well as Germany's.
Looks that way STEED, but I would put Australia on the same level! :yep::doh:

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47756122


"Make them vote until they break." That does not just make mockery of the principle of majority rules - but its raping them.


Scum.


All that to enforce that for example a cusotm unions gets established where the UK can never hope to become economically indepedent and soverign from the the EU, but is banned to sign its own trade deals, and must obey EU rules accompanied with the cusotm union that further ridicue the claim they did a Brexit.


Its like was to be feared: they steal the Brexit. Formally they agree to it, in vital parts they bypass it and turn it into a pointless thing.



Lying, treacherous scum.

[STEED]

^The DUP will continual to vote it down while the backstop stays in place.

More amendments monday but I'm at work what a relief.

[Jimbuna]

The EU wants it all, and it wants it any way.


https://www.politico.eu/pro/uk-cant-escape-irish-backstop-with-no-deal-brexit/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=20199f9627-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_03_29_05_42&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-20199f9627-190417541


The wet dream of EU gangsters: "The world is all ours, no matter what."

That is quite an eye-opening article Sky and sadly, one I believe to me true.

[Skybird]

That is quite an eye-opening article Sky and sadly, one I believe to me true.
To a certain degree I can accept and understand point one, the fincial thing. That the UK pays in so far as it had agreed to longterm deicisons covering one fiscal period and, while leaving, compensated for the fallout of its contribution to it. But that sum of money of cours emjst have time-limits, the UK cannot be expected to pay for all time to come as if it were still a member. The maximum, in theory, imo is the costs of British contributions ovr the past fiscal perdiod. Both sides will try to calculate this in their favour, of course. I do not trust th Brussels numbers and their logic.


Poi8nt two, rights of citizens in the other country, alredy is where the EU starts to operate by double standards, it demands from the UK (whcih meanwhile voluntarily andunilaterally has said it guarantees certain rights of foreginers in the UK even in case of a no deal Brexit) what it doe snot demand from trading partners outside Europe, not even if the trading opartner is a highly supressive country engaged in humanitarian violations.



The demand that the UK must obey protection of good friday treaty, which translate sinto voluntary surrender by the UK under the Backstop regime, is arrogant, and absolutely unacceptable. It is desirable as a gioal and I think the UK even agrees in that it would be the deirable outcome, but a legal claim, a cause to raise imperative demands, is not given. The UK is under no obligaiton whatever to follow this at any cost. Again, the EU acts by double stanbdard shere, it would not dare to raise such cocnerns towards imprtant trade partners outside Europe, at leastr leave sit to words and is impotent and/or unwilling to boost it up by deeds. Obvious,y one seeks again to maximise the vulernabilites and weaknesses of the UK here.


Its loike i always said: Brussle leads th enegotaitons with a maximum of underhandedness and malice, while Londown in the past led them with a maximum of naivety and reality denial.


The UK side, in case of a No dela Brexit, would need to run its affairs in a very different, confronting fashion, less caring about manners and diplomatic "harmony". It also woud need to reinvent certain parts of itself, namely its economy. Untriggering a low-tax-war aga8inst the continet canotbe avoided to be a part of it, and Brussel of course will react utmost hositle to that - but it cannot be helped. Comnptition for tax-attrractriveness must be part of it: and will be good for Britain, while continental state robbers will of course hate it and label it "criminal".



The block will also seek to intimidate nations outside Europe to make them not signing treaties with the UK, to make it all mor miserable for the UK. Like the Mafia family in all movies doe snot allow you to leave face first, the eU intends to not allow the UK a life outside the block without trying evertyhing to make life for it a pain. The UK must be prevcented to become a successful exmaple for that the block can indeed be left - this precedent mjst be porevented AT ALL COST. Thus, maximum damage is highly desirable from point of view of the EU. The worst it gets, the better.



The other cards the UK can play, is withdrawal from poloce, intel and military ooperation. Even nside NATO. Europe needs Britain much more, especially in the Intel area and the field of nuclear deterrance (the french have not fully committed their nukes to NATO command), then the UK needs the contionent, and the British intel service is probably the most capable in all Europe, before the French. The two british new carriers however of course are an own goal without being able to internationally embedding them in supportive maritime assets.



The british new game must be threatening retaliation if the EU pushes it too far. This always prioritized demand for consent and harmony, is almnost pathologic, and I say that as an ex-pschologist. Not wanting to fight, but being able to fight, are two different things.

[Skybird]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/10F0E/production/_106209396_banksysnip.jpg
by Banksy

[em2nought]

Defeating Nazi Germany was easier to do than Brexit. LMAO :har:

[Skybird]

Spoken with a furious verve.

Be warned, this video helps to massively improve your English vocabulary in an unwanted manner. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=-IL2XwSkFJQ

"These are all massive public policy failures, which has led down to a breakdown of trust between the electorate and the government. You sprinkle a tiny bit of "Its immigrants' fault!", and "We pay the EU too much!" - its gonna resonate with the have-nots and the struggling... Four million people voted UKIP in 2015, they ended up with 1 MP - that's not healthy! ... They wanted to send a message: they did not want the status quo, and thats how you get Brexit! Brexit was sold us as a panacea, in fact its the opposite, but Brexit has acchieved one thing: whilst Brexit wont solve any of our underlying problems, it has exposed them. Our constitution, our institutions, our democratic system and our politicians - they are not fit for purpose..."

I repeatedly said that the past two, three years got wasted by the UK government. I ma yhave been too shortsigthed. Its probably more correct to say that the past 20, 30 years have been wasted. But then, that deep insight into domestic British policy affairs I had not. I took note of two things only: thje massive money laundering the British economy dores for regimes from the Middle east and Russian oligarchs, and since a saddening documentation about the fiasko with personal debt-growing university costs. The NHS thing I never felt really able to correctly assess and sort in.


Needless to say I do not fully agree with all of his broadside, espe3cially when he lists his supposed socialist duties of government. Still, he probably gets many basic things right and I respect the generlal reasoning. And the colourful language. :D On German propaganda stations this kind of satire would be impossible.


---


I wonder why Jonathan Pie had worked with RT in the past. That station is quite dubious, I would say.

[Jimbuna]

There is now a rise in popularity for a customs union but if that turns out to be the outcome we may as well remain in the EU :doh:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47763494

[Skybird]

There is now a rise in popularity for a customs union but if that turns out to be the outcome we may as well remain in the EU :doh:

Indeed. Its a method to hollow out Brexit while keeping the empty hull of the word. It steals the meaning of the term. The UK would not be allowed to negotiate trade agreement with non-EU states. That is a frontal collision with the very idea of Brexit: to be no longer regulated and limited by restrictions Brussels claims to be its own thing only. How could any Brexit ever work if the ZUK is not free to try to get new trade arrangements? Its impossible - and thats why certain people want it.

[Jimbuna]

I'm now reading that the Cabinet is pushing for a No Deal Brexit which I find hard to believe when you take into consideration how divided the Cabinet are known to be.

[Catfish]

Indeed. Its a method to hollow out Brexit while keeping the empty hull of the word. It steals the meaning of the term. [blah]

"The empty hull of a word". Seems fitting, yes.
Just listen to it, once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o

[Jimbuna]

^ That's always one perspective Kai and quite interesting if I'm tbh.

Meanwhile....hypocrisy appears to have been a trait of Steptoe for many a year, not that I wasn't already aware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOUJADBo9zE

[STEED]

^^Both sides told a pack of lies because politicians were running the remain/leave campaign strutting around like peacocks looking for. It should not had any dam politician in the referendum and it should have ran a lot longer about six months not a couple of weeks.

Any way it looks like we are remaining thanks to the criminal action of that lot at Westminster whom put it in law we would leave with or without a deal on March 29th 2019. I want that lot prosecuted for breaking the law and stuff their parliamentary safeguarding rules that protect them. These have failed and only in it for themselves, we should all..STOP VOTING.

MEAN WHILE IN THE PM BUNKER..
https://images.spot.im/v1/production/zviephvrruzmxaz0pgk9
"BREXIT IS NOT LOST IT WILL NEVER BE LOST, BREXIT WILL GO ON AND ON ITS NOT LOST"

EDIT: A little less use of the profanities and a bit more family friendly to the viewers old chap if you'd be so kind.

[Reece]

https://images.spot.im/v1/production/zviephvrruzmxaz0pgk9
Chirp!! Chirp!! Chirp!! Poly want a cracker!!

[STEED]

All set for Tuesday? It has been reported that mad bitch will give it a 4th attempt and if it fails again how about a 5th attempt.

[Skybird]

People not voting what they are supposed to vote for, must be taught a lesson - as hard as necessary to teach them.

Let a state even just once regulate even just the smallest of things that even is supposed to be in favour of the best interest of the people - and from there on it will press on to regulate ever more things, and then not so minor things anymore, and then ever more fundamental things, and then people'S private things, and, then even society'S communal interests, and then the way people are allowed to think about it, and then how poeple are allowed to feel about it, and then training them not to think and not to feel about anything anymore in a not officially permitted way, and so you turn freedom and "democracy" (tm by modern times) into tyranny and totalitarian suppression - and you must not even call it by the latter names, for it is all in best interest of people.

Every democracy, and any other form of state, always, necessarily, unavoidably, must and will turn into stricter and stricter dictatorships over time. Always. States always must end in this.

And both May and the EU show the underlying attitude behind pushing things this way. From social crusade over paternalism to tyrannising, its always the same basic pattern.

[Skybird]

Dr. Daniel Stelter is the founder of the strategy and macroeconomic discussion forum "Beyond the Obvious" (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://think-beyondtheobvious.com/&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700191,15700253,1570 0259&usg=ALkJrhgwikr8lCKHF0HGZRFjqp0ZwO2Bcw) and business consultant. Previously, Stelter was with the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) from 1990 to 2013, most recently as Senior Partner, Managing Director and member of the BCG Executive Committee.
His current book "The Fairytale of the Rich Land - How Politics Ruined Us" (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.amazon.de/Das-M%25C3%25A4rchen-vom-reichen-Land/dp/3959721536/ref%3Dnosim%3Ftag%3Dmanagermagazin-21&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700191,15700253,1570 0259&usg=ALkJrhg6MfH-zUz7wlTGZ4P5VKpxxtDTIQ) is currently on the SPIEGEL Bestseller List.


This time, Google Translator deliveres one of its more rocky rides, unfortunately. I still don't get it why its quality varies so tremedously from session to session. It can be brilliant, it can result in something that one is unable to comprehend - or it can be in the middle between the two.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus.de%2Ffinanzen%2Fnews%2Fg astbeitrag-daniel-stelter-die-wahren-verlierer-des-brexit-sind-wir_id_10529341.html

[Jimbuna]

So terribly hypocritical when you consider the majority of Labour held areas voted for a Brexit.

It would appear Steptoe will attempt to use any trick in the book to bring about a general election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47776505

[Skybird]

In light of the coming storm, the UK maybe will end up at the lucky side of things if leaving the EU.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-29/can-eu-survive-next-financial-crisis


Today, the EU is threatened with Brexit, which at the time of writing is yet to be resolved. But there’s a significant possibility Britain will leave the EU without a comprehensive trade deal and without paying all the money allegedly owed to the EU. The money will have to be made up by the other members, principally by Germany, France, Italy and Spain, being the largest remaining economies. Furthermore, the UK’s economic policy is bound to focus on being a competitive regional entrepôt for global trade, enhancing her economic performance relative to a stultifying EU. Existing political tensions within the EU are certain to escalate as the EU falls behind, and Brussels, hooked on profligacy, for the first time faces budget cuts. It is becoming increasingly obvious to independent observers that the EU supra-national socializing model is failing structurally, politically, economically and financially. The next credit crisis, which appears to be evolving from the seeds of today’s events, looks set to end the European dream.
Imagine the hate Britain will face if it comes this way and the UK finds itself getting done with the conseqeuences easier than the rest of Europe! In thta scenario, of course all the EU's damages and ends will be the fault of the UK. "We would have succeeded if Britain would not have betrayed us!" :haha:

[Mr Quatro]

This works for my thoughts of vengeance on the men against the UK leaving EU (on both sides of the problem) which is simply this ... That the UK would leave EU without making a deal and then as the days, weeks, months and even years go by the UK would prove that they did the right thing and the UK does not become a laughing stock of the world.

Adding one more wish for Ireland and Scotland to exit EU too :yep:

[Skybird]

This works for my thoughts of vengeance on the men against the UK leaving EU (on both sides of the problem) which is simply this ... That the UK would leave EU without making a deal and then as the days, weeks, months and even years go by the UK would prove that they did the right thing and the UK does not become a laughing stock of the world.

Adding one more wish for Ireland and Scotland to exit EU too :yep:
While the Pound is a FIAT fake money like Dollar and Euro, at least the British were wise enough to opt out of the Euro. Thats the spirit that I counted on, that I expected when all Brexit drama started three years ago. Instead: harmony, consent, wishy-washy, daydreaming...


Brexit was a decision that had to be carried out in a rude manner, and it did need no harmony-craving sympathy-getters, but tough, lonely fighers not caring to stand all alone as long as only they could stand tall. There is time for friendliness, and there is time for being detetmined, and grumpy if needed. These two were terribly mixed up. Britain should have aimed from beginning on to leave in anger, and being resolute.

[Jimbuna]

I certainly don't want to appear as being too patriotic but the EU may well find it could and should have been a little more prudent in its assessment of the UK.

History should tell them that we have been led by incompetents in the past but cometh the hour in time of national need, the lion comes to the fore and the UK has survived.

Now whether that is the case now is a matter of opinion but once the present incumbent is moved on we shall see.

Having said all that, my money is firmly on a remain outcome but accompanied by much internal bitter resentment.

[Jimbuna]

Here's the live link to the MP's debate over the four Brexit options if anyone is interested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-47772688

I'm certainly not, I'm off for a pint or three whilst watching TOON play Arsenal on the tv.

[Catfish]

"UK immigration rules ‘deny’ NI-born Irish citizens access to EU rights"

[...] because the UK government has taken the position that all people of Northern Ireland are British by birth under the British Nationality Act 1981, a presupposition that [...] goes against the Good Friday Agreement right to be Irish or British or both as you so choose”.

Seems the 'backstop' is only one of a hundred homemade problems :hmmm:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-immigration-rules-deny-ni-born-irish-citizens-access-to-eu-rights-1.3846117

[Jimbuna]

I must admit that after the TOON match last night I watched events in Parliament unfold on the BBC news channel.

Last week we saw a failure to agree on eight alternative motions and last night an identical result on a further four, making twelve collective failures.

One can only presume now that Parliament is dysfunctional and no longer fit for purpose.

I fear the end game will be an eventual majority for the revocation of Article 50 and the public realising eventually Parliament have forgotten or are simply ignoring the vitally important fact that they were elected by the people to carry out the will of the people, something that 85% of them voted for in their last election manifesto.

Come the next election and in light of the fact that each individual MP's vote is automatically made public I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of a night of the long knives (forgive my choice of phrase) culminating in each MP that represents a constituency that voted to leave being de-selected by their local party.

Only then will we have any chance of bringing about any credibility back into British politics.

One must never forget that this was all brung about by a Tory Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer in the first place then handed over to a pro-remain successor who was quite happy to agree to what a great many millions of our country see as being nothing short of a surrender document.

What is even more worrying is the knowledge that an anti-royalist, a republican, someone with terrorist sympathies and the most horribly hypocritical voting record in modern times is waiting in the wings to drive the final nails into our once proud nations coffin.

Rant over....now to enjoy the rest of my day off :salute:

[Jimbuna]

A no-deal Brexit is now more likely but can still be avoided, the EU's chief negotiator has said.

Michel Barnier said a long extension to the UK's 12 April exit date had "significant risks for the EU" and a "strong justification would be needed".

His usual stance is to leave it to the government in the UK to sort out its own business but also retains a penchant for sticking his nose in when it suits.

One suggestion has been the possibility of a general election - but former foreign secretary Boris Johnson told BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg that would be likely to "infuriate" voters.

Instead, Mr Johnson said he believed a new leader and "change in negotiation tactic" could "retrofit" the PM's "terrible" agreement with the EU.


Boris, you ran away quite a few weeks ago so really shouldn't be taken all that seriously.

Mr Barnier told the European Parliament's foreign affairs committee that "things are somewhat hanging on the decisions of the House of Commons", and that the deal was negotiated with the UK "not against the UK".

A strong topic for debate here in the UK.

[Catfish]

Can someone enlighten me what is so bad about the current proposed deal (being voted off anyway i know, and some), apart from the "backstop"? How does it make England a Vassal state? When reading through all this stuff it does not look like the UK would be so bad off, instead the EU offered more than i would have :O:

It becomes a vassall state (war talk by propaganda jerks b.t.w.) by not having a say in the EU after brexit? You get out and want to still have your say in the EU?

"You cannot have all of the advantages of being the member of the club when you are out of the club. I think that our British friends who invented clubs can understand that."

The EU is essentially a club, into which members pay fees in exchange for certain benefits. Among other things, membership allows preferential treatment on the trade of goods and services. Leaving that club means losing that preferential treatment. If it didn't, then there would be no point in being a member. It is not threatening a "punishment beating" to point this out. It is merely stating facts.


The UK voted for a worse relationship with the EU in exchange for a supposed better relationship with everyone else. No one exactly knows why this should be the case, but.. well go on and try.

And just a reminder, it is the WTO which demands closed borders in Ireland in case of the UK leaving the EU and joining the WTO and its laws. It is up to the UK (and the EU, but .. why exactly) to find another solution.
Brexit and the British politics are captured by the extreme right and left. Both factions now want a hard Brexit – though for different reasons.
If the EU is reluctant it is being bashed as arrogant and not interested.
If it makes proposals it is being regarded to interfere with the UK's sovereignty.
It is entirely wrong and ridiculous.

But if the UK breaks out with no deal the WTO rules will apply.

[JU_88]

I've honestly lost interest at this point. and lost track of exactly what the deal is now.
for fun i googled 'Theresa may's deal explained' along with todays date.

Here are the top 6 totally "fair and balanced" sources that came up.

Vox, The independent. the Gaurdian.
Rebel Media, the Express, Daily mail.

Ugh....

Maybe you can be bothered read those 6 totally not horribly biased spin artists - and try to piece together some kind of sanity that's vaguely grounded in reality, but I can't -at least not right now anyway.

LBC came up as well (they are decent) but, their explanation appeared to lack any real depth.

[Jimbuna]

^ Hereby lies the problem, both parties reached an agreement on a deal but one party (admittedly the UK side) refused to be inclusive with interested parties on their side and agreed a crap deal (hence all the currently ongoing hullabaloo).

In an ideal world the UK takes control of her borders, immigration and laws but said deal in its current form does not satisfy all partie on the UK side unfortunately.

One example of future trade negotiations would certainly be Macron demanding fishing rights in UK territorial waters if nothing else other than to scratch one of the many itches the yellow vests currently trouble him with and I'm sure you and I could find many more examples from other countries if we made the effort.

The UK currently imports much more from the EU than it exports to it so I suppose that is one positive but ultimately I believe the UK is prepared to decimate tarrifs in order to maintain what industrial muscle it has remaining and the EU would seriously damage itself if it tried to follow suit.

That as far as I'm concerned is one of the EU's weaknesses, taking forever and a day to negotiate and reach unanimous agreements with all member states. Heck, the President can't even decide on what constitutes a pair of matching shoes!! :):03:

I'm still thinking in terms of the UK remaining in the EU but should that be the case I fear for future relations born out of historical resentment for what has transpired since 2016.

EDIT: The above is in response to the post by Catfish.

[Jimbuna]

JUST IN!

Theresa May says UK needs extension to Brexit and offers to work with Labour's Jeremy Corbyn to end stalemate https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47794235

[STEED]

JUST IN!

The only thing that Bastard Jezzer wants is power to spend all the money. Parliament rejected Labours plans so what is the bloody point of talking to him? May is now a political prostitute who has gone way passed the bottom of the barrel.

STOP BLOODY VOTING FOR THESE BASTARDS! :up:

[Reece]

I do like your location STEED!! :haha:
Here's some advice to keep you calm, when you switch on the TV or radio do this and think nice thoughts:

https://image.freepik.com/free-photo/portrait-mature-annoyed-unhappy-stressed-man-covering-his-ears-negative-emotion-reaction-stop-making-that-loud-noise-face-expressions-this-is-too-loud-frustrated-mature-man-holding-fingers-his-ears-keeping-eyes-closed_1391-193.jpg

[Skybird]

One question now is the elephant in the room: what is Corbyn'S price for agreeing to a Brexit-by-word-but-not-by-content that will strip the UK of many rights while keeping its dependencies?


And why should this be a desirable outcome, I ask?

[Jimbuna]

One question now is the elephant in the room: what is Corbyn'S price for agreeing to a Brexit-by-word-but-not-by-content that will strip the UK of many rights while keeping its dependencies?


And why should this be a desirable outcome, I ask?

The Tories have nobody to blame but themselves, they are totally divided and Jacob Rees-Mogg the ERG leader will now get the last thing they wanted, a soft Brexit or possibly even a remain outcome.

Steptoe will see this as an opportunity to destroy the Tories but must think carefully because many Labour held areas voted to leave and that section of the electorate will be very unforgiving.

[Jimbuna]

The Ministry of Defence has launched an investigation into a video which appears to show soldiers firing shots at a picture of Jeremy Corbyn. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47798717

I suspect some of our lads will soon find themselves in harms way :unsure:

[STEED]

Army investigating 'Jeremy Corbyn target practice' film

The Ministry of Defence has launched an investigation into a video which appears to show soldiers firing shots at a picture of Jeremy Corbyn.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47798717



So bloody what! Who gives a hoot I don't that is for sure. They can use my pictures if they want I don't care. I suggest to balance the books the next video put up their shooting at a picture of May. :03:

[STEED]

So what's next for the political prostitute May? Popping up to Scotland to see old fish face or how about smoking dope with whats her face of the Green party. :03:

[Jimbuna]

A clue: "They should not be political - they are there to defend the country and the Queen,"

Add to that the fact that Steptoe could well be in charge of them one day.

I wonder what the likes of Hitler or Stalin would have done.

[STEED]

^I suggest they shoot the whole bloody lot of them at Westminster and put the Queen back in charge.:03:


PC PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Jimbuna]

You're starting to sound like Obadiah Hakeswill of Sharpe fame :hmmm:

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fx9DdxiB3k

From a comment: "The people who need to hear this are either not listening or don’t believe any of it."
Sad but true.

[Rockstar]

Hate crimes up? Oh I believe it, but for reasons other than what the video seems to think truth is. According to the FBI, "law enforcement reported 7,175 hate crimes to UCR in 2017, up from 6,121 in 2016. Although the numbers increased last year, so did the number of law enforcement agencies reporting hate crime data—with approximately 1,000 additional agencies contributing information". So the increase in the number of hate crimes appears to coincide with the increase in number of new reporting agencies. Weird huh?

[Catfish]

sry offtopic here since UK, but since Rockstar mentioned it:


"The report shows there was a nearly 23% increase in religion-based hate crimes. There was a 37% spike in anti-Jewish hate crimes."

" [...] increase in antisemitic hate crimes – which were already the most common religious hate crimes in the United States – that is well documented in this report."

Indeed there are more enforcement agencies, about 900. Of 16,000+ !
Does not quite explain the rise of 23 percent.

"The 2017 data, submitted by 16,149 law enforcement agencies (up from 15,254 agencies in 2016), provide information about the offenses, victims, offenders and locations of hate crimes, the FBI said. (There were 7,106 single-bias incidents involving 8,493 victims, the FBI reported on Tuesday).

Almost 60% of victims were targeted because of bias against race, ethnicity or ancestry bias. A fifth were targeted because of the offenders’ religious bias and 15.8% were victimized because of the offenders’ sexual-orientation bias. Just under 2% of victims documented in the report were targeted because of a disability or a bias against gender identity.
The hate crimes ranged from murder to vandalism and also included rape, robbery and assault."

[Catfish]

^ Hereby lies the problem, both parties reached an agreement on a deal but one party (admittedly the UK side) refused to be inclusive with interested parties on their side and agreed a crap deal (hence all the currently ongoing hullabaloo).

In an ideal world the UK takes control of her borders, immigration and laws but said deal in its current form does not satisfy all partie on the UK side unfortunately.

One example of future trade negotiations would certainly be Macron demanding fishing rights in UK territorial waters if nothing else other than to scratch one of the many itches the yellow vests currently trouble him with and I'm sure you and I could find many more examples from other countries if we made the effort.

The UK currently imports much more from the EU than it exports to it so I suppose that is one positive but ultimately I believe the UK is prepared to decimate tarrifs in order to maintain what industrial muscle it has remaining and the EU would seriously damage itself if it tried to follow suit. [...]

EDIT: The above is in response to the post by Catfish.

^ Just saw it now, sorry for being late

De-industrialisation was a word coined before the UK joined Europe. When England (e.g. not Ireland) suddenly decided to cut each other's hair instead of mining, assembling and producing all were astonished that this just of all had been an idea of Mrs Thatcher. Maybe because she thought depriving the unions of members this way - no workers, no unions lol.


I'm still thinking in terms of the UK remaining in the EU but should that be the case I fear for future relations born out of historical resentment for what has transpired since 2016.It seems you only see it from England's point of view, not even from the whole UK's one:
Leaving the EU by means of Farage, and Johnson, and general lying, was a slap in the face of reason, and of the 26 other nations in the EU. A nation that had been perceived as a partner and friend suddenly showed an ugly side, with believing in obvious lies told about the EU, immigrants, economy. "Uh they want to take our fish/our women/our sovereignty". No one here is interested in taking any of that away!

And whatever comes of it, you are right, "they" will never forget nor forgive Rupert Murdoch, and what has been said and tried by the brexiters.
The only reason why there is no other answer is that obviously there are also some reasonable and friendly people left, in England.

Regarding who is for brexit and why, the authoritarians who have their vision of a very different social contract hate the EU precisely because it is a construct designed to deprive them of power.

Keeping peace the EU is always said to have had no influence on peace, instead it was "only the US which secured that" with the promise of nuclear retaliation.

But "the EU was built to keep fascists and Stalinists away from their own government. The EU was designed for messy compromise, recognition of political nuance, the need to muddle through. The EU is an explicit acknowledgment of the uncertainties about economic policy, the contingencies implicit in any political decision".
No simplistic populist solutions. It is about reality and facts. It’s and end-to-end fudge. And seen in those terms, it works brilliantly :03:

[Skybird]

On a sidenote, in Germany one week ago, or ten days, the u-tunred the issue completely by reporting that the anti-semitic hate-crimes by Muslims went up because they were faced with Islamophilia and anti-Islamic hate-crimes.



That anti-semtisim and hate on Jews is deeply encoded in Islam from the very begining of its history on - no word on that.


Fact-faking of the finest, giving it a serious touch. Anti-semitism? Its the Jews' fault! Love Islam and they will stop hating Jews!:yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Now that May and Steptoe are talking (I doubt any worthwhile conclusion will happen) the divisions in Labour are starting to unfold.

Labour chairman Ian Lavery offered to resign from the shadow cabinet after twice defying party orders to vote in favour of a new Brexit referendum.

Labour ordered its MPs to vote in favour of a "confirmatory referendum" on a Brexit deal, but Mr Lavery abstained.

His Wansbeck constituency voted 56% in favour of Leave in the 2016 referendum.

Labour sources confirmed Mr Lavery's offers of resignation were both turned down by Jeremy Corbyn. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353

[STEED]

It was reported on the radio last night some paper was saying seven cabinet ministers were going to resign over May's meeting with Jezzer.

Sounds like a load of FAKE NEWS too me.

[Jimbuna]

Dear oh dear, a leaky roof has closed the Commons for the day. It must be cricket they play in there because it certainly isn't politics :)

I should imagine the bars and restaurants inside are doing a roaring trade right now :o

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47819517/house-of-commons-finishes-sitting-due-to-water-leak

[Skybird]

That fits. The German translation for "damage on the roof" would be "Dachschaden" - and that is a synonyme for a person being nuts. "Der hat einen Dachschaden"/"He has a damaged roof" means: he is nuts, crazy, insane.

[Mr Quatro]

I'm not making fun of anybody, okay!

But still this number is shocking :yep:


June 2016 UK votes to leave EU

[Skybird]

Me too does not make fun of anybody, okay!

But these numbers are shocking, too!

June 2008: Ireland votes No to EU constitution (later relabelled as dictate of Lisbon).

June 2005: the Netherlands votes No to EU constituion (later relabelled as dictate of Lisbon).

May 2005: France votes No to EU constitution (later relabelled as dictate of Lisbon).

Not taking No as a No, has system, and a solid tradition.

https://i.postimg.cc/YCF5FRY7/Unbenannt.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Jimbuna]

Dear oh dear, a leaky roof has closed the Commons for the day. It must be cricket they play in there because it certainly isn't politics :)

I should imagine the bars and restaurants inside are doing a roaring trade right now :o

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47819517/house-of-commons-finishes-sitting-due-to-water-leak

It would appear one person was certainly still at work to justify their £300 daily attendance allowance :o

Theresa May has written to the European Union to request a further delay to Brexit until 30 June. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47825841

[STEED]

Theresa May has written to the European Union to request a further delay to Brexit until 30 June.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47825841

And on it goes...



Labour has held on to the Newport West parliamentary seat with a reduced majority following a by-election.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47786885

Jezzer will be jumping up and down with joy.

[Jimbuna]

Labour has held on to the Newport West parliamentary seat with a reduced majority following a by-election.

Labour saw its majority over the Conservatives fall to 1,951 from 5,658 at the 2017 general election. Mr Flynn had held the seat since 1987.

Eleven candidates stood, with the 37% turnout higher than some had predicted.

Eleven candidates stood, with the 37% turnout higher than some had predicted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47786885

[STEED]

Dear oh dear, a leaky roof has closed the Commons for the day.

Mr Spoon bender claims he did it as reported on LBC.



https://s.faketrumptweet.com/ju3yke5z_4avnh6_uenzdl.png

[Jimbuna]

A pretty interesting article from the Independent that focuses on Angela Merkels question to the Irish leader on her visit the other day about the Irish border and the possible eventual outcome.

In reality, then, the EU must be edging towards the condition that they cannot have a hard border in Ireland, and therefore, though it may irk them, they can never set the British a deadline for Brexit if it means no deal. A settlement has to be found, even if it may take a long time. The Irish border is as tricky a problem for the French and Germans as it is for the Irish and the British – a conundrum with no known answer.

So a hard border, and therefore a no-deal Brexit, is in reality unthinkable. In every centre of power – Westminster, Stormont, Dublin, Paris, Berlin and Brussels – the thought is slowly crystallising that a no-deal Brexit is at best a purely theoretical possibility. The British have virtually outlawed it; and the Europeans cannot override Ireland’s objections or the legal and moral force of the Good Friday Agreement.

Without the possibility of a no-deal Brexit, that only leaves two possibilities, amounting to the same thing: Brexit is over. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/angela-merkel-is-asking-the-right-question-about-brexit-%E2%80%93-and-it-scuppers-everything/ar-BBVCR7a?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Skybird]

Morals are desirbale or not, but not legally binding, and a legal obligation of the Irish to not brexit into a hard border I do not conclude from good Friday Agreement. Therefore the author, while practically probbaly describing a likely scenartio for the future of Brexit beiong endlessly delayed, doe snot describe a hardw-riutten fact, imo, but describes excuses why a hard Brexit could not be done because it should not be done, from his pov.


Anyhow, a treaty that cannot be cancelled, in my book in this specific detail is always already non-valid from geginning on, becasue wehre it needs consent for sides to come toegther, any side necessarily also must have the right to cancel its consent. The freedom to decide for something, necessarily must include also to decide against it, or to alter one'S views later on due to changinging times and conditions. I agree iuts can be tricky to find a reaoisable bvalöance there when to still stick with a treaty and when to concel it, practical life on many levely and ordinary laws and court cases prove it every day. But the pricniple here is what I am about. There can be no irredeemable law or treaty or agreement. Where this is claimed in it, it is naturally invalid a claim from start on.



This is not to say that it would be desirable to have the good friday agreement gone. The problem I see over Ireland is that both sides so far argue with maximum demand-positions of their opwn,. and that the eU also wants to prevent a successful Brexit by Britain at all costs to turn this whole mess into a precedence intimdating for all time to come other people thinking about leaving the eU.


Germany also has another interest here, which is behind its Euro- and credit-polcies as well: the germans have heasldessly agreed to lend so much money to others, that any collpase of the Euro and any debtor leaving the currency union would ciost Germany hilasriosu, fan tastic ammounts of money that already is goine by now, but still gets "sold" to the poublic as money we will get back later on. Germany cannot afford to help raising threats to a desintegrating Euro union, and for the same reason it can not afford to ever leave the Euro itself: the losses then could no longe rbe hidden from the german voters, ranking in the trillions (plural), if adding up everything. The last thing the Germans want, is the threat of a UK being econimically successfull in thelong run, not beign affected as much ba a Euro collapse in the forseeable future, and beign able to raise a low-tax-competitiopn against the high-tax reghime in the block that is the only thing that keeps German social systems still afloat, more or less.



Really, morals are ther last thing playing a role in international politics. On this the author of that article really is naive. Its about power and money interests.

[STEED]

Labour has accused the government of failing to offer real change or compromise during talks to end the Brexit stalemate.https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-government-has-failed-to-compromise-during-talks-say-labour-11685156

Looks like the cracks have started.

What they need is...

https://www.aveeno.com/sites/aveeno_us_2/files/ave_381371178544_aveeno_cracked-skin-relief-balm_11oz_test.jpg

OR

http://www.claybrick.org/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/images/cement.jpg?itok=b9QHiHwR

[STEED]

One good reason to leave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4DhecQQjdM

So before the EU censures me go (THE FOLLOWING HAS BEEN CENSURED BY THE EU)

Oh man that was quick of them.

[Catfish]

Why did the UK sign the petition then? :doh:

And is the EU the initiator or aren't some greedy companies from the US behind this? It just makes the most powerful companies more powerful, and tries to undermine the free internet worldwide.
The EU just buckled to lobby pressure, with the UK.

[Catfish]

Old brexit lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxWiRz6A9E

[STEED]

^In the terms of the stock market it was insider betting that caused the crash which is known fact not the actual out come of the vote. Result massive sell off to get their money back after they the traders saw the leave vote was going to win and not the remain they betted on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUY05_ZwFzg

[Catfish]

^ May well be, my take is though, that all who were able somehow tried to gain an advantage from brexit, and it is not difficult to see who got the most out of it.

Also i am not simply pro-EU, i have a lot of hate and difficulities to accept or even understand what is sometimes done, and it is not alway due to my lack of information. This article 11 and 13 is complete bsh.. i agree. I still hope it will not get through. German politicians have already declared they will not follow this EU rule, but you know... politicians.
The EU as it is now has to be reformed, or destroyed and built up in another spirit and way. Trade, the single market and freedom of movement are however values that deserve to be supported.

Despite all, especially here in Germany it was difficult to see and accept the hate that emerged in 2016, against us and the EU. And i will not stop to point out obvious lies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGo1nsm1ic

[Jimbuna]

Old brexit lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxWiRz6A9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPTD_AdgTc

[Jimbuna]

Chancellor Philip Hammond has said he is "optimistic" Brexit discussions between the government and Labour can reach "some form of agreement".

Mr Hammond said the government had "no red lines" and an "open mind".

But Labour's Diane Abbott says the government has made "no movement" in the talks on the political declaration, which outlines future UK-EU relations.

Three days of talks ended on Friday without agreement and Labour said no more talks were planned this weekend.

Downing Street responded by saying it was prepared to pursue alterations to its Brexit deal and was ready to hold further discussions with Labour over the weekend. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47837142

I can honestly imagine the May government remaining arrogant even at this late time but take no notice of what Diane Abbott says because she probably doesn't even understand what is being discussed :)

[Jimbuna]

British passports are being issued without the words "European Union" on the cover, despite the delay to Brexit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47833702

A tad premature imho :hmmm:

[STEED]

Chancellor Philip Hammond has said he is "optimistic" Brexit discussions between the government and Labour can reach "some form of agreement".Clearly not going well with no talks this weekend, of course Labour will not walk away that is not in their interest as they want it too look like it's all May's fault. They will make it hard as their aim is to get a general election and nothing more.

[STEED]

Brexit: I had no choice but to approach Labour - May

The PM said there was a "stark choice" of either leaving the European Union with a deal or not leaving at all. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47842572

It is in my mind we are heading towards staying and the end result of this will be a general election. Until then May will drag this out as long as she can keeping her in power.

[Jimbuna]

Jacob Rees-Mogg: Theresa May has made 'active choices' to stop Brexit
The senior backbench Tory MP says the prime minister "deserves to be held to account" for failing to deliver Brexit on time. https://news.sky.com/story/jacob-rees-mogg-theresa-may-has-made-active-choices-to-stop-brexit-11686712

And this coming from a Quisling whose constituency voted to remain :hmmm:

Bath & North East Somerset
Leave 42.1%
44,352 VOTES
Remain 57.9%
60,878 VOTES

[Jimbuna]

"The ball is in the government's court" when it comes to a way forward with Brexit, Labour's Sir Keir Starmer says.

Talks between Labour and the government began last week, with Theresa May saying only a cross-party pact would see MPs agree a deal in Parliament.

But the shadow Brexit secretary said Mrs May's team had "not changed its position" on her existing plan. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47849389

I wish I knew precisely what the PM's plan is or what game she is playing.

The sands of time are running out and it is being reported that the 1922 committee will be meeting with her at No.10 later this afternoon.

[Skybird]

I wish I knew precisely what the PM's plan is or what game she is playing.


By now its all so degenerated and bogged down that most likely she only wants to prevent being noted in history books as the only scapegoat for the mess she has helped to create.

And of course she wants no Brexit worth the name - and getting away with it. That was always her premisse, most likely.

[Jimbuna]

How so embarrassing :oops:

Theresa May is holding last-minute Brexit talks with the leaders of Germany, and France later, with the UK due to leave the EU in three days time.

Mrs May is meeting Angela Merkel in Berlin, followed by Emmanuel Macron in Paris, to urge them to back her request to delay Brexit again until 30 June.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47861605

It's not often you get three lame ducks meeting on the same day :hmmm:




Very little wriggle room left now PM but I doubt Steptoe is bothered because you have everything to lose and he has everything to gain.

Theresa May is being forced to ask the EU to delay Brexit and avoid a no-deal divorce on Friday, after a change in the law was rushed through parliament.

The cross-party proposal, which has received royal assent and has become law, was raced through the Commons in a single day last week and completed its journey through the Lords this evening.

Peers made two changes to it that removed a significant sting for the prime minister, which was signed off by the lower house on Monday.

Under the new terms, MPs will still be able to tell Mrs May how long she should ask the EU to delay Brexit for.

But they will not be able to dispute whatever new date Brussels sets and send the prime minister back to ask again.

They also changed the text of the so-called "Cooper Bill" to say Mrs May cannot ask for a date before 22 May.

Britain is on track to leave the EU this Friday - 12 April - but the prime minister has chosen not to pursue a no-deal divorce.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-brexit-compromise-deal-yet-as-jeremy-corbyn-tackles-pm-11688123

[Mr Quatro]

What does this term mean? "No deal divorce"

Does it mean the UK can not exit EU without a deal? :o

[Skybird]

What does this term mean? "No deal divorce"

Does it mean the UK can not exit EU without a deal? :o
It means the UK does not WANT to leave without a "deal".

"Can leave without deal" it can very much - if only it wanted.

The issue is that the majority of parliament member from all beginning on did never want a Brexit. After the referendum they found themselves in in the middle of an effort to square circles. They must give the impression to honour the referendum - while not obeying what it originally ruled for. All the inherent contradictions in their claims what they do not want and do not want and then do not want, is due to this: weaseling around the referendum's "lets brexit" demand.

Also, staying with the EU would provide still many posts and careers for British officials at the EU - fortunes that would fall away if the UK leaves. The career interests of some certain politicians and the meaning of the referendum could not be any more opposite. Same is true for the simple outlook to stay in govenrment any way and enjoy the post's benefits.

Thats what you get when allowing professional politics as a job and living model: classical conflicts of interests, and in this meaning: corruption.

Thats why I say for a start being potlically active should be limited to two legislation periods - then everyone has to say good bye to politics for all the rest of his life. From president to backsaeaters: everybody shall not be allowed to make "doing politics" his model to collect his income for his living.

In principle, what is needed instead is moderately paid, non-priviliged - clerks and accountants who can and will be held fully liable for their work'S results and who must leave after 2x4 years at the very latest, no matter their possible great success. Oh, and forming political parties and declaring obligations to vote according to party policies, must be outlawed and draconially punsihed. Parties - that should not be allowe danyway... - muist aloso be banned from financing themselves by any form of tax-funded state incomes, like the Wahlkampfkostenpauschale (= lump sum for election campaigns ?) in Deutschland. They must - if they would be allowed to form up, which I am against - be forced to finance themselves exclusively and fully by party membership fees. Donations form non-members must be banned and violations draconically punished. To me, parties do never provide solutions, but always are integral part of the key roots of decline of political culture and a corrupting of state powers.

With this ^ being the rule, the brexit in Britain most likely would have been done differently, especially in the past 6 months or so.

[Jimbuna]

Now this could be a cause for serious concern for the EU bureaucrats :hmmm:

A New European Political Bloc Wants to Dismantle Europe

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/a-new-european-political-bloc-wants-to-dismantle-europe/ar-BBVLckx?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

[Skybird]

Now this could be a cause for serious concern for the EU bureaucrats :hmmm:
Only as long as these guys do not pulverize themselves. The AfD excels in that, has lost fundamentally in recent polls due to many internal issues and uncompromsing egos.

Else I say: the enemy of my enemy is not necessarly my friend - but at least my enemy's enemy.

[mapuc]

In my opinion it looks like some if not almost a majority of the English politicians have an another agenda, than what the people have voted in this brexit-referendum.

That's why I hold on my standpoint.
First the country leave the EU, thereafter this country can negotiate trade and other things with the EU.

The politicians in a country, who have voted for an exit, shall not have the chance to stretch this exit or trying to through this referendum in a bin.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Only as long as these guys do not pulverize themselves. The AfD excels in that, has lost fundamentally in recent polls due to many internal issues and uncompromsing egos.

Else I say: the enemy of my enemy is not necessarly my friend - but at least my enemy's enemy.

It looks like a delay until the end of June will be agreed tomorrow.

[Jimbuna]

It looks like a delay until the end of June will be agreed tomorrow.

Correction...But the EU is expected to offer a longer delay, after European Council President Donald Tusk urged the other 27 leaders to back a flexible extension of up to a year - with conditions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47875923

[STEED]

I've had it with brexit it can sod off, we got domestic problems in the UK and nothing is being done! All those useless B'stards at Westminster have and will continual too play the Brexit game thanks too lets kick the can down the road because I'm a moron of a Prime Minister.


The UK is smouldering badly all we need is a blast of wind and the fire will run amuck. Kicking the bloody brexit can down the road to October is not the bloody answer. Stuff Brexit and remain in the EU and get our own domestic problems sorted out. The brexit game is costing the UK time and money time to stop it now.


We are the laughing stock of the world we have a moron PM a moron government cabinet a moron government benches and a moron government opposition. This proves we need radical reform of Westminster now!



Theresa May has agreed a delay to Brexit until Halloween after EU leaders offered another extension to Article 50 at a late-night Brussels summit.


https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-admits-huge-frustration-as-she-agrees-halloween-brexit-delay-11690251

[Jimbuna]

October 31st Trick or treat? :haha:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47890402

[Jimbuna]

Looks like the French were beaten by the Germans again :):03:

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, enraged fellow leaders after standing alone against a long extension to Britain’s membership of the EU.

Macron insisted on speaking last during a working dinner in Brussels on Wednesday night during which he set his stall against a longer extension up to 31 December backed by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel.

Over a dinner of scallop salad, cod loin and macadamia nut parfait, it soon emerged that France was nearly isolated, with only a handful of member states, such as Belgium, sounding sympathetic to his arguments.

The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, told the room that Macron’s opposition meant that “we are now only solving French domestic problems”.

German officials were said to be “very irritated” with Macron.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/macron-enrages-eu-leaders-after-opposing-long-brexit-extension/ar-BBVOLgs?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[STEED]

This sounds like we are staying to me.

https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-planning-winds-down-with-immediate-effect-sky-sources-11691005

[Jimbuna]

What treachery is afoot now? :hmmm:

Probably the only potential replacement I think is worse than what we currently have.

Boris and his Tory leadership campaign team hold secret talks with the DUP as pressure builds for May to stand down https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-and-his-tory-leadership-campaign-team-hold-secret-talks-with-the-dup-as-pressure-builds-for-may-to-stand-down/ar-BBVRfZr?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Jimbuna]

European elections: Nigel Farage launches Brexit Party

Ex-UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said his new Brexit Party has similar policies to his old party but there is a "vast difference" in personnel.

He said the party's European election candidates were mainly business people and "high achievers who want to put the confidence back into British politics".

Mr Farage said UKIP had allowed the far right to take over and that "the brand is now tarnished". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47907350

Twas only a matter of time :yep:

[STEED]

I like the way the EU states this is our last chance don't wast it as to say get on with it and what do our lot do? Go on holiday, this action tells me they are not serious about Brexit as I have said they think its a game. :nope:

[STEED]

European elections: Nigel Farage launches Brexit Party

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47907350

Are you voting for them jim? :)

Annunziata Rees-Mogg has joined the Brexit Party and standing as a candidate. Yes shes the younger sister Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[Jimbuna]

Undecided.

[STEED]

Undecided.

Go on, make Catfish's day. :03: :haha: :03:

Tories are very very worried by this.

[Jimbuna]

The Tories are totally divided and their main concern should be that they are making it much easier for Steptoe to get the keys to No 10.

[Jimbuna]

It is time to get Brexit "off the table" so that Britain can focus on other issues, the chancellor has said.

Philip Hammond told the BBC that getting a deal done soon would release the "bandwidth" needed to take key economic decisions facing the country.

He called the UK's involvement in May's European elections "pointless" and hoped a deal would be done before then. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47909151

Agreed :yep:

[STEED]

The Tories are totally divided and their main concern should be that they are making it much easier for Steptoe to get the keys to No 10.
According to the radio last night Labour is ahead in all the polls, average figure 10% in front.

As for the above I have made my views very clear in my post 9726.

[Jimbuna]

The government and Labour are "testing out" each other's ideas as they try to resolve the Brexit deadlock, cabinet minister David Lidington has said.

He told the BBC they had a "fair bit in common" over future customs objectives but further compromise was needed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47924023

I reckon most of the UK know these talks will achieve nothing unless the PM is prepared to move on one or more of her red lines so why do the press continually release this nonsense :nope:

[STEED]

I reckon most of the UK know these talks will achieve nothing unless the PM is prepared to move on one or more of her red lines so why do the press continually release this nonsense :nope:

I no longer give a CENSORED about Brexit.

We have bigger domestic problems that need sorting out.

[Jimbuna]

Aye, my annual inflationary pension increase on 16th this month :smug:

[STEED]

Aye, my annual inflationary pension increase on 16th this month :smug:

I suspect a letter later this month or in the next three months about a pay rise.

[STEED]

UKIP leader Gerard Batten has accused his predecessor Nigel Farage of "smearing" the party, while defending his own links to Tommy Robinson.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47926785

Rubbish, you are doing a nice job of it all by yourself with super fat football brainless right wing jack boot goons all signing up to UKIP while they stuff their faces with chips and beer.

Oh by the way Batten you said you would stand down this March and its now April. :doh: :doh:

[STEED]

'Their first decision was to go on holiday': EU's Verhofstadt fears UK will waste Brexit delay



https://news.sky.com/story/their-first-decision-was-to-go-on-holiday-eu-fears-uk-will-waste-brexit-delay-11695220

:haha::haha::haha: I beat you to it :haha::haha::haha:


Post 9732
I like the way the EU states this is our last chance don't wast it as to say get on with it and what do our lot do? Go on holiday, this action tells me they are not serious about Brexit as I have said they think its a game. :nope:

[STEED]

Three female MEPs have quit UKIP after the party's leader Gerard Batten defended a candidate's comments about rape as "satire".


https://news.sky.com/story/three-meps-quit-ukip-after-gerard-battens-defence-of-candidates-rape-tweet-11694846



What more poof you need that this nasty fool is unfit to be a leader. Hey Batten I still see you have not stepped down or any plans to step down.


DO NOT VOTE FOR UKIP THEY ARE RACIEST THUG PARTY.

[Reece]

You have my word STEED, I won't!! :timeout:

[Jimbuna]

No big surprise in the comments made by Verhofstadt when you take into consideration Belgium were one of the few that sided with Macron over the Brexit extension time period.

[Jimbuna]

Commons Speaker: Has race to succeed John Bercow begun? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47946635

I certainly hope so.

Speaker Bercow 'could be denied peerage' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46913477

Same again.

[Jimbuna]

The Commons will get a new vote on a customs union in a few weeks in order to try to break the Brexit deadlock, amid warnings that Theresa May’s Conservatives are walking into a “wipe-out” in the European elections.

Veteran MP Frank Field told the Standard that he plans to move a motion with the Father of the House, Kenneth Clarke, to show that a smooth trading bloc is a solution that commands cross-party support.

Mr Field said a backbencher-led move would also get Mrs May and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn “off the hook” of having to sign a formal compromise deal that could trigger civil war in their parties.

“I think if it comes from the backbenches, neither of the party leaders can be accused of dividing their parties. I would be confident of getting it through,” he said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/mps-to-be-given-fresh-vote-on-brexit-customs-union-as-tories-face-euro-election-wipe-out/ar-BBVZsS6?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Looks like reality is finally getting noticed.

[STEED]

^Not in Labour's interest as their agenda is a general election.

Meanwhile London is in green hell has these loonies cost the country money and increase vehicle pollution stopping traffic! :doh:

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-change-protesters-mount-train-amid-plan-to-disrupt-public-transport-11696014

[Jimbuna]

Well looking at some of the scenes on your link and my link below gets me to thinking the authorities need to toughen up before all the cells are maxed out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47959207