UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

Well looking at some of the scenes on your link and my link below gets me to thinking the authorities need to toughen up before all the cells are maxed out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47959207


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wa4U6TQlNI&app=desktop

[STEED]

Listening to LBC and they are reporting two polls in The Times tomorrow puts the Brexit party well in front of Labour and Conservatives. I don't put any stock in polls but I do find that interesting in the point what the Cons are going too do about it who are behind Labour as well.

[Jimbuna]

A Conservative MP is making a fresh attempt to remove John Bercow from his position as House of Commons Speaker.

Crispin Blunt has said he will table a motion expressing no confidence in the Speaker when the House of Commons returns from recess on Tuesday.

In a statement posted on Twitter, the Reigate MP accuses Mr Bercow of bias over Brexit and overruling precedent on "a number of key votes".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47960001

This has been tried before and failed just as I expect it will be this time. There is already a plethora of bias by many on both sides of the house.

[Jimbuna]

One of the European Commission's most powerful officials has said that a no-deal Brexit would mean a hard Irish border.

The comments from Martin Selmayr feature in a documentary made by ARTE, the Franco-German broadcaster.

The secretary-general of the European Commission was filmed in a meeting with senior MEPs in late 2018.

"Let's be very clear - if there is no withdrawal agreement there will be a hard border," he told them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47966180

Seeing as how Ireland and the UK have repeatedly stated neither of them will create said 'hard border' the question is "precisely who will put one in place"?

[Catfish]

No one with a clear mind wants it.
Even the WTO has meanwhile declared it will not demand a hard border.
Though this seems exactly what the brexiters want, to "take control" of the borders.

As even the Express tabloid propaganda Murdoch crap paper writes:
"Essentially, if the Irish border remains fluid, there would still need to be checks in place for goods in and out of the rest of the UK and EU. [say the brexiters]
If there is no hard border in Ireland, those goods will need to be checked in ports, meaning trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK would be stilted.
So a hard border in Ireland won’t work, and a border in the Irish sea won’t work.
And why do we need to have a border of some sorts? Because the UK has insisted it will leave the EU single market and customs union.
That means, somehow, everything in and out of the UK to and from the EU needs to go through a border check."

So the backstop is meant to ensure no matter what happens with the rest of the negotiations, there won't be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
Which is why the EU insists on the backstop.
Which is why the brexiters are against the backstop.

The weather is nice, 20 degrees centigrade, sunny, so much nice things to do. Just stop boring us to death with brexit :O:

[STEED]

The UKIP leader dismisses his predecessor and his new party, telling Sky News: "All you get from Nigel is rhetoric."

https://news.sky.com/story/ukips-gerard-batten-dismisses-brexit-party-as-a-vehicle-for-nigel-farage-11697003

Oh shut up you looser, you know you are going to get a right royal roasting. All the sensible people have left UKIP leaving the door open for the beer swilling pie chomping gut bucket big gob right wing racists who should be behind bars in a zoo.

[Skybird]

So the backstop is meant to ensure no matter what happens with the rest of the negotiations, there won't be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
Which is why the EU insists on the backstop.
Which is why the brexiters are against the backstop.

Once again you only list half the truth and comfortably hide the other half. That is that as long as the backstop got called up by the EU, the UK is legally prevented from forming trade agreements with other countires since the backsotp indudes that the Uk must stay within the cusotm union that rles out independent such agreements between custom unions mebers and partners fro outside of the custom union.


O wonderful card blanche to keep the UK locked inside the custom union for as long as the EU wants. Which is: forever. The EU does not want the UK to leave.



That is the main concern by brexiteers refusing the backstop option. And you know it by now, it has been explained and laid out to you often enough now.


There is no solution to this constellation that goes without one side agreeing to totally compromising its base positions. They could have known that already two years ago, of only they would have cared to give this issue the attention. The UK accepting the reihgt of the eU to call a backstop would give up its sovereignty and allows to get paraylsed whenever the EU wants. The EU cannot give it up without compromising the legal protection of the Irish Republic, a EU member.



Its the reason why there can only be a hard brexit, or no brexit worth the name, a super-soft brexit that is no exit in essence and effect: an empty word-shell that leaves the UK with additional costs, less rights and all the principle burdens and obligations of a membership.


Customs union cannot be part of Brexit. Backstop includes the custom union, and nio new trade agreement sof the UK with non-EU countries. Brexit with backstop thus is not imaginable. There can be no Brexit with a backstop option. There cannot be a squared circle. Hence, they will try to erode the Brexit and turn it into a meaningless, empty hull, a wordshell. Commons never wanted a Brexit anyway. It was the referendum demanding it.



Give it up, Catfish, you know all that by now. You really should at least.

[Catfish]

^ once again :doh:
Who existed first, the hen or the egg?

It is about the (southern) Republic of Ireland, which is a EU member. Why should the well-founded intent of this country and 26 other nations bow to one country? Because it is England? And the latter does not even make up its mind to what they want? The UK or better England didn't do their homework, stop blaming the EU for everything.

"The WTO option is the cold hard floor on which the UK will splat down if no safety net is in place in time."

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto-taiwan/taiwan-objects-to-britains-post-brexit-wto-services-trade-arrangement-idUKKCN1PA2TP

https://www.ft.com/content/4f0ea43e-a77e-11e8-926a-7342fe5e173f

"The UK must produce its own schedule covering both services and each of the 5,000-plus product lines covered in the WTO agreement and get it agreed by all the 163 WTO states."

[Jimbuna]

Further evidence of why a hard border must never be allowed to exist again to help prevent a return of the troubles.

A journalist has been shot dead during rioting in Londonderry that police are treating as a "terrorist incident".

Dissident republicans are being blamed for killing 29-year-old Lyra McKee during rioting after police searches in Derry's Creggan area on Thursday night.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) said the New IRA "are likely to be the ones behind this" and detectives have started a murder inquiry.

Prime Minister Theresa May said the murder was "shocking and senseless".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47985469

[Skybird]

Your determination to spin it again and again, is nerve-killing.

You havew to understand one thing. It takes two to tango, and if one of the two does not want to dance any longer, the other has no claim for insisting that he nevertheles must do so.

The argument in Spain-Catonia, in France/Basque country, now over Brexit always seems to be: we benefit from not allowing you to leave us, thus we have a right to insist that you must stay ours. You must serve our interests. Your free choice to refuse that, is not relevant."

That is imperialism. That is slavery. That is treating people as property of other people the latter can abuse.

Partnership includes the quality of voluntariness, else it is dictatorship. Treaties can be signed - and of course they can be cancelled again. Where claim is laid that the other may not leave if he wants, may not cancel a partnership he does not want anymore, you have force. Command forcibly. Ownership. Imperialism.

That is not freedom. That is crime of the worst. Violation is most profound human rights.

The hen and egg issue is no issue here at all, that is just another spin of yours. The UK population gave itself a majority rule as the principle by which to to decide issues. By these their own rules, they decided in conformity with their self-given rules to leave the eU. They have all natural right one can imagine to do so. They voluntarily joined a union on grounds of views and arguments back then that are not valid today anymore since the EU of today has been turned into somethign so drastically different than what it was back then when it was the ECU. They wish to end the partnership and want to leave, people said by majority vote. And the rest of Europe has absolutely zero claim and arugment to oppose that. None. Nothing. We may like it or not. Okay, we do not like it. It does not matter, our likes and dislikes do not give us any claim.

And you claim that others' foreign interests justfiy that one can demand the UK to nevertheless stay, because some of us see benefit for themselves if they stay? Again, they cna and have opted for leaving, and whether we like that or not, does not matter. They are not our property, not our slaves, not our loot from imperial conquest.

The hen and egg problem is not a problem here at all ,that is just another rhetoric of yours. The problem is that the parliament does not want what the referendum said people want. And that said parliament now wants to erode the meaning of the term "exiting a union (Brexit)" - but without exiting at all by functionality and effect. All should stay as it is, just that it should be called "Brexit", while it is no Brexit. Still a custom union. Still no right of Britain striking trade agreements with other states of its own. Still no sovereignty from EU legislation and court supremacy. Still Brussel deciding and enforcing things that Brexiteers wanted the UK to regain control of and sovereignty for.

The Irish border problem is a fact one should have adressed from beginning on. You cannot have a meaningful Brexit without a hard border there. That would be the squaring of a circle. What the parliament weasels around is that you cannot have both: a meaningful Brexit plus open borders between NI and ROI. You also cannot imagine a menaingful Brexit - while maintaining a custom union. That is no Brexit. That is just giving up rights and voting powers, while being left with all obligations still.

It does not mater whether you can understand the yes-voters' reasons for their referendum decision or not. Its not your business, nor mine. You may be surprised, but form an economic standpoint I find their reasons illogical and selfcontradicting, more so than I see chances (wich there are as werll, if one only would play the game tough and with consequences, which they dont). But its not my business. I am not to tell them what they must motivate their decisions with. We have to realise that they made this decision, we can appeal, we see they are not interested, we have to accept them leaving, we have to accept that we cannot benefit from them anymore like we did before - end of story, period. We have no right to raise claims against them, that they must serve our interests. They must not. Not morally. Not legally once they left. Not for any other reason. They do not exist just for our own sake.

Its the same argument that I have raised over the Catalonia issue, and why I said a Spanish constitution that self-empowers the govenrment to declare that another people with different etnicty and culture (yes, different ethncity and culture) shall have no right to leave Spain and be independent, morally and naturally from all beginning on is invalid and a violence of most profound human rights. I said the same for any independenbce movement in Europe where the majhority of the native population in a region considers to leave the surrounding bigger state. Scotland. States - or international supra-national organizations - claiming that regional populations have no right to evade from their claim for power and command, are slave-keepers per definition. They claim property rights over populations.

The hen and egg has nothing to do with it, for the third time now. Nor is the EU the only side having interests, which to some degree are even valid. The other side has interests as well and they are as valid, if not even more so. Stop ignoring the latter, it is nerve-killing to the max. And is not clever at all, but is simply reality denial. That the British parliament behaves like a cage of monkeys on LSD, means nothing for the principle things, they are just monkeys on LSD. After all, the parliaments always were against Brexit, and now have to weasel around due to the referendum and voters at home.

There can only be no Brexit and no Irish border, or a Brexit without agreement and a hard border. Evertyhing else is an abuse of the meaning of terms and words. The British people itself must navigate the waters they put themselves into, it is up to them to accept parliament to betray the referendum, or to storm the hall and burn the house down. Neither the EU nor anyone else has to lay claim for that they should do what we others tell them. "If you do this, we will do that". That is all we are allowed to intervene with in their debate. The EU'S claimed interests must not be their command. And if they leave with all consequences, the EU's claims and demands must mean nothing for them anymore. That is what I would find most attractive in all this chaos.

[Catfish]

Yeah right. If the one that wants to leave has undersigned treaties that go on for a - if limited - time, he has to fulfill those. Otherwise it is a break of treaties, and being regarded as this, internationally.

Why doesn't England let Ireland go then, if that is what you call slavery and imperialism? "Treating people as property of other people the latter can abuse" and you reall mean that? How many wine have you drunk?
England has plundered and enslaved a good part of the world for centuries, not that they would call a spade a spade of course.
I fail to see how the EU is "enslaving" the UK, this is ridiculous. Unless you happen to be as awful as Farage.

Your comparisons are so overblown and full of yourself and self-rightousness it is breathtaking. Get some professional help.

The biggest part 0of the UK - England - voted to get out of the EU. And all have to follow, like in this joke. England, Scotland and Ireland walked into a bar. The all had to quit because England wanted to".

Partnership, well. This decade-long cherry picking had to stop somewhere, and i am almost happy that it finally happens. "Anything else than partnership is dictatorship?" :haha: No, sorry. This is dumbest black-and-white-thinking. Then England has been a dictator decades-long while joining the EU.
And i can see how altruistic and well-meaning, and professional the english government has been and is, with or without the EU. This is laughable, and ridiculous.

There can only be no Brexit and no Irish border, or a Brexit without agreement and a hard border.
Ah? Why? So what has the EU to do with it? What about England? What about the WTO?

The British people itself must navigate the waters they put themselves into, it is up to them to accept parliament to betray the referendum, or to storm the hall and burn the house down. Neither the EU nor anyone else has to lay claim for that they should do what we others tell them.
Exactly. And while a lot of nations internationally and the EU look at England they do not actually do much, but watch a drama unfold, watch how they are hurting themselves. But this is not the fault of the EU, or Botswana.

[Skybird]

Yeah right. If the one that wants to leave has undersigned treaties that go on for a - if limited - time, he has to fulfill those. Otherwise it is a break of treaties, and being regarded as this, internationally


........fine with that, but one can demand precision. but this has nothing to do with the bachstop problem.



Why doesn't England let Ireland go then, if that is what you call slavery and imperialism? "Treating people as property of other people the latter can abuse" and you reall mean that?

,......... Jim said the northern Irish by majority want to stay in and with the UK. They also want no hard border.Like the parliament, they contradict themselves by wanting two things that cannot be had together. THE UK AS FAR AS I KNOW HAS NOT PRESSED THEM TO STAY IN THE UK. London allowed a scottish referendum as well on independence, mind you. Neither the Gibraltarians nor the Falklanders are forced to stay either. They want to stay. Like apparently the northern Irish.



I fail to see how the EU is "enslaving" the UK, this is ridiculous. Unless you happen to be as awful as Farage.
,............ What I said, stands - and how i said it. no people must live for the sake of other people, expecting them to do that is claiming property rights over the other, and that is slavery by defininion for sure.


Your comparisons are so overblown and full of yourself and self-rightousness it is breathtaking. Get some professional help.
........ I take it from such personal attacks that you ran out of arguments.


The biggest part 0of the UK - England - voted to get out of the EU. And all have to follow, like in this joke. England, Scotland and Ireland walked into a bar. The all had to quit because England wanted to".
......... the uk is kind of a union of four, and they all agreed to decide in this union by majority votes. Maybe you do not like majority votes if they do not dekiver your preferred outcom







Partnership, well. This decade-long cherry picking had to stop somewhere, and i am almost happy that it finally happens. "Anything else than partnership is dictatorship?" :haha: No, sorry.
..........Try to correctly quote and understand what i actually said. you already add your own spin to my words again. cheap.




This is dumbest black-and-white-thinking. Then England has been a dictator decades-long while joining the EU.
And i can see how altruistic and well-meaning, and professional the english government has been and is, with or without the EU. This is laughable, and ridiculous.
........ whoever feels adressed by this reply, may or may not answer. it wont be me, however, since i feel not adressed.



Ah? Why? So what has the EU to do with it? What about England? What about the WTO?
.....???



Exactly. And while a lot of nations internationally and the EU look at England they do not actually do much, but watch a drama unfold, watch how they are hurting themselves. But this is not the fault of the EU, or Botswana.
....... i nowhere ever said that somebody else is responsible for the selfcontradicting behaviour of parliament. i identified the parliament never having wanted brexit but needing to deal with the referebdum as cause for their weaseling. i said when they are serious with brexit they necessarily can only go for hard brexit, and i explained why that is so.


do you actually read what i say before you type a "reply" ?

[Jimbuna]

Looking at the recent posts above reminds me of the discord that currently exists here in the UK on this subject matter.

What I believe we can all agree on is that this whole sorry state of affairs is a right mess.

I'm not about laying the blame on either or both sides of the divide but one thing is for certain, Parliament are failing the people of the UK and there are strong rumours that the all powerful 1922 Committee are considering ways to change the Tory Party internal rules in an effort to oust PM May long before the December deadline she currently has as a result of an earlier leadership confidence vote.

Who would replace her and what would change as a result...God only knows :hmmm:

[STEED]

Looking at the recent posts above reminds me of the discord that currently exists here in the UK on this subject matter.

What I believe we can all agree on is that this whole sorry state of affairs is a right mess.

I'm not about laying the blame on either or both sides of the divide but one thing is for certain, Parliament are failing the people of the UK and there are strong rumours that the all powerful 1922 Committee are considering ways to change the Tory Party internal rules in an effort to oust PM May long before the December deadline she currently has as a result of an earlier leadership confidence vote.

Who would replace her and what would change as a result...God only knows :hmmm:

THEY LIED TO US, THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE....:/\\chop

[STEED]

Brexit: Labour must back another referendum - Tom Watson

Labour must promise another Brexit referendum to counter the electoral challenge posed by Nigel Farage, the party's deputy leader has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48000600

Didn't they voted on this and rejected it. :hmmm:

I have no interest going down the Irish road so they get the result they want. We already had it so shut up and go away.

[Reece]

I'd like to give them my gastro!! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/barfing.gif

[Jimbuna]

THEY LIED TO US, THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE....:/\\chop

If you're to be taken seriously this is a reminder of how dangerous the far right can and have become.

[Jimbuna]

I'd like to give them my gastro!! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/barfing.gif

There is a rather appropriate saying I learned in Holland whilst residing there but sadly, the internet has an abundance of competent text translators :03:

[Reece]

I had to put that since I had a really bad day of gastro, both ends!! :oops::doh:

[Jimbuna]

And now the inevitable consequences begin.

Tory councillors are revolting against Theresa May over her handling of Brexit, with 40% prepared to vote for Nigel Farage’s rival party at the European elections.

A survey of elected grassroots Conservatives found three quarters of Mrs May’s councillors wanted her to resign, with 43% of them calling for her to quit immediately.

Just over half – 52% – said they would vote Tory at the European election, a figure that would rise to 65% if Mrs May was replaced by Brexiteer Boris Johnson, the Survation poll for the Mail On Sunday found.

Some 40% said they would vote for Mr Farage’s Brexit Party, a figure that would fall to 22% if Mr Johnson was in Number 10.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/tory-grassroots-revolt-over-mays-handling-of-brexit/ar-BBW8sk7?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[STEED]

If you're to be taken seriously this is a reminder of how dangerous the far right can and have become.

Chopped as in removed from office for telling lies, they set it in law we would leave the EU on March 29th and we have not left. This disgraceful lot have lost their rights to sit in Westminster and yet these traitors remain. Democracy is dead.

[STEED]

https://news.sky.com/story/12-000-pieces-of-official-govt-advice-added-to-alexa-and-google-home-11699520

Sod off that thing spy's on you 24 hours a day. Bloody government any excuse to spy on you by saying this is quick and makes your life easy.

[Jimbuna]

Can the Tories and Labour agree on Brexit?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47911720

I believe the simple answer is...NO

[STEED]

I believe the simple answer is...NO

I knew that even before the talks started, Labour's one and only aim is too get a general election. Is the press in this country so bloody thick they do not see it.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Yes

[STEED]

Yes


THE STEED TIMES


Main stream press are bloody thick but are they thick as politicians?


We ask the big question and the monkeys at London Zoo replied yes!


STEED TIMES recommends Jim's flat cap news and Reece big knockers political magazine.

[Reece]

I'm flattered STEED!! WOW, I'm famous!! :D

[STEED]

I'm flattered STEED!! WOW, I'm famous!! :D
More famous than that rock you have. :)

[STEED]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48021730

I don't see Change UK getting any where and I suspect most if not all will loose their seats at the next general election. Followed by them falling out the media spot light.

[Jimbuna]

A bit like the Tories and Labour perhaps.

[Catfish]

Insert facepalm please.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1088871096097693696

[STEED]

The government has approved the supply of equipment by Chinese telecoms firm Huawei to the UK's new 5G data network despite warnings of a security risk.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48032286
What's left of your privacy has just gone out the window.



Ann Widdecombe: Former Tory MP to stand for Brexit Party
Ms Widdecombe, 71, said she would still vote Conservative in the upcoming local elections but would stand as a candidate for Nigel Farage's new party in the European elections.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48034732
:o



Join the Remain alliance, urges Change UK at Euro election launch Why? After all we have a remain party its called the LibDems, so what is the point of this lot of noodles. :doh:

[Catfish]

Monty Python's The Life Of Brian film ban lifted after 28 years

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3073308/Monty-Pythons-The-Life-Of-Brian-film-ban-lifted-after-28-years.html

Took some time.. :hmmm: :haha:

[Jimbuna]

What's left of your privacy has just gone out the window.





Not necessarily so.

There is no formal confirmation but the Daily Telegraph reports Huawei will build infrastructure such as antennas.

Ciaran Martin, the head of the National Cyber Security Centre - which oversees Huawei's current UK work - told BBC Radio 4's Today programme a framework would be put in place to ensure the 5G network was "sufficiently safe".

[Jimbuna]

Monty Python's The Life Of Brian film ban lifted after 28 years

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3073308/Monty-Pythons-The-Life-Of-Brian-film-ban-lifted-after-28-years.html

Took some time.. :hmmm: :haha:

Some local councils are still stuck in the olden days :)

[Skybird]

Not necessarily so.
What else should they say, Jim? Huawei provides base technology, and before it became a consumer product provider itself, it produced for almost all other companies as subcontractor who used its tehcnology but under their own brand name. Huawei was cheaper than most, and their technicil expertise is not to be put in doubt.

Of course China will use its hardware and diplomatic and financial infrastructure to erode the West and to spread its own interest network, in fact it does this since long. Like American companies do as well.

Using Huawei smartphone myself, though I would never use such devices - no matter the brand - for any serious job or critical data processing/messaging. P9 lite is a very well-done device with good battery and an almost unbeatable price. Their new P30 pro however - that is another thing. :D

BTW, Microsoft and Google do the same thing when for example equipping schools with their stuff "for free". Its about trainign young people to not think "notebook" but "Chromebook", and not to think "text editor" but "Microsoft Word". Later in their lives they will have turned into loyal brand followers - due to habit since school days. An Apple a day keeps competition away.

[Jimbuna]

It was easier for the US to say no because Huawei have very little business there but if the right safeguards are put in place hopefully matters won't become problematic in the future. They will not have access to the vitally important/sensitive areas as far as I'm aware.

[Catfish]

Huawei?
Not acceptable, I demand my phones only report personal data to NSA, CIA, GCHQ, Google and Apple.
"Somewhere in China: "So many penises!"

And, by the way, Huawei spying not true:
https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/bgeevn/analysis_of_false_positive_on_beiangovcn_requests/

"Analysis of false positive on beian.gov.cn requests in regards to Huawei P30 Pro traffic research"

"As a solely maintainer for this project, please accept my deepest apologies for mistakes which cause misunderstadning for Huawei brand and customers. The fact that Huawei P30 Pro initated connections to beian.gov.cn is not true."

[Catfish]

Michel Barnier's speech at Natolin march 29th, 2019
"Europe after brexit" in pdf form.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/speech_-_college_of_europe_natolin.pdf

[Skybird]

It was easier for the US to say no because Huawei have very little business there but if the right safeguards are put in place hopefully matters won't become problematic in the future. They will not have access to the vitally important/sensitive areas as far as I'm aware.
There are plenty of China-produced chips in American missiles. ;)

And yes, I am certain that there are inbuild options to abuse that. Nobody should expect the Chinense to be stupid, and folding over such an opportunity. Like we can take it for certain that Microsoft software gets delivered with NSA-ordered backdoor accesses as well.

Want to be safe, want to be sure on something? Produce it yourself. Accept no international "cooperation", the other will sooner or later compromise your security by selling the stuff you two have cooperated to develope, since policies differ form nation to nation, and so do their interests, and scruples.

And become independent of electronic communication again as far as humanly possible.

There is no safety in electronic IT communication. And you never can be sure about your securit level, whether or not you already are compromised and just dont know it. Yolu just can not know for sure. There is always some brighter fish out there than yourself.

[Skybird]

Oh, and so i read that the Scots want to go for it again...

Any better chances for them to win an independence referendum these days? And would London even allow another attempt? I of course say the Scots naturally do not need anyone's allowance, but formally, by the written paragraphs on paper, it is like that.

If it gets this far and they vote for independence, I only insist that they must be able to econo9mically finance that themselves. I do not want another hungry mouth to be fed by the EU, another net receiver to the EU that just weakens it further. And of coruse, like the EU wants to treat the UK as an ordinbary third party country from outside the EU, the same treatment must be given to Scotland. No special rules, treaties and treatments. If they want to join the EU, they have to go through the full legal process and the full time table.

[STEED]

Senior Tories have ruled out changing their rules to allow an early challenge to Theresa May's leadership, but have asked for more clarity about how long she will remain in office.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48032990

Simple answer right up to Dec if not longer.

[Catfish]

Oh, and so i read that the Scots want to go for it again...

Any better chances for them to win an independence referendum these days? And would London even allow another attempt? I of course say the Scots naturally do not need anyone's allowance, but formally, by the written paragraphs on paper, it is like that. [...].

They do have to ask London for holding a referendum.

[Skybird]

They do have to ask London for holding a referendum.
Yes I know. Its just that a.) I do not accept such oppressive laws as valid and legal, and b.) I do not know whether London would "allow" it (again) at this point of time (Brexit), and after such short time since the last time London allowed it and a referendum was held (and lost with 55% against it).

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48035802



One of the country's spy chiefs, Mike Burgess, later expanded on this, saying that as 5G technologies matured, the expectation was that the distinction between the edge and core "collapses" because "sensitive functions" would begin to move outside of the protected part.


But, Mr Burgess added, the consequences could be dire if the 5G kit was then compromised and used to mount an attack.
"Elements of the power grid may not work, water supply [and] sewage pumps may not work - it has the potential to impact our country greatly," explained the director general of the Australian Signals Directorate. (http://lowyinstitute.org/news-and-media/multimedia/video/mike-burgess-director-general-australian-signals-directorate-asd)
And Huawei was considered a company that could be "subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law".
In other words, the fear was that it could be compelled to facilitate a Beijing-mounted cyber-attack.
(...)
Earlier this month, one of President Trump's top cyber-security officials made it clear that the US believes it is not safe to use Huawei kit in any part of a 5G network.
"We view there to be no relevant distinction between the core and the edge of a 5G network," said the US State Department's Ambassador Robert Strayer.
"That distinction had existed in 4G networks because you basically had a smart core - where the intelligence and the software ran - and the edge was dumb, because it was just for the transmission of data to the core.
"In a 5G network, much of the smart computing capacity... will move to the edge."
(...)

"The greater concern with 5G is the potential for disruption of the network, not necessarily espionage."

Red remark: Bingo, as far as I can assess the issue with my limited knowledge. The ability of disrupting infrastructure of a nation is what cyber warfare is about in case a real conflict breaks out. Traffic like in IT and data, control of electricity plants, hospitals, airports, supply logistics, public transportation, media, water...

[Catfish]

Written in 2012:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(Elsberg_novel)

[Jimbuna]

Michel Barnier's speech at Natolin march 29th, 2019
"Europe after brexit" in pdf form.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/speech_-_college_of_europe_natolin.pdf

That was actually a good read IMHO....from a remainers point of view especially :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Oh, and so i read that the Scots want to go for it again...

Any better chances for them to win an independence referendum these days? And would London even allow another attempt? I of course say the Scots naturally do not need anyone's allowance, but formally, by the written paragraphs on paper, it is like that.

If it gets this far and they vote for independence, I only insist that they must be able to econo9mically finance that themselves. I do not want another hungry mouth to be fed by the EU, another net receiver to the EU that just weakens it further. And of coruse, like the EU wants to treat the UK as an ordinbary third party country from outside the EU, the same treatment must be given to Scotland. No special rules, treaties and treatments. If they want to join the EU, they have to go through the full legal process and the full time table.

They do have to ask London for holding a referendum.

I doubt Westminster will give the green light so near to the previous one that Salmond said was a once in a lifetime event.

The potential problem there will be the risk of alienating more Scots to the point they'll join the leave camp but overall I think the Scots are currently sick of referendums.

What I find rather confusing is the fact that Sturgeon stood up in the Scottish Parliament and said Scotland will be a single country in its own right within the EU and a net payer to boot.

Rather strange when it has already been proven that without additional income from the exchequer the Scots can't raise enough in taxes to meet their financial needs.

Best I don't mention the facts they will not be allowed to keep the Pound Sterling (the Scottish financial institutions aren't viable enough to underwrite it) unlike the Bank of England and the second fact being the EU have already stated that a Brexit by the UK is just that, all four parts, meaning Scotland would have to reapply to a process that could take years (Turkey being a prime example).

[Mr Quatro]

I doubt Westminster will give the green light so near to the previous one that Salmond said was a once in a lifetime event.

The potential problem there will be the risk of alienating more Scots to the point they'll join the leave camp but overall I think the Scots are currently sick of referendums.

What I find rather confusing is the fact that Sturgeon stood up in the Scottish Parliament and said Scotland will be a single country in its own right within the EU and a net payer to boot.

Rather strange when it has already been proven that without additional income from the exchequer the Scots can't raise enough in taxes to meet their financial needs.

Best I don't mention the facts they will not be allowed to keep the Pound Sterling (the Scottish financial institutions aren't viable enough to underwrite it) unlike the Bank of England and the second fact being the EU have already stated that a Brexit by the UK is just that, all four parts, meaning Scotland would have to reapply to a process that could take years (Turkey being a prime example).


All it would take is for EU to make one snide remark about the Scots are not the UK and refer to the fact that they aren't smart enough to leave the EU :yep:

Bam! :o Scotland would join England :yep:

[Catfish]

Regarding Jim's comparison between Scotland and Turkey about joining the EU.. well there cannot be a comparison both being much too different from each other :03:. Scotland would of course be allowed, while Turkey will never be as things look.

So the UK decides to leave the EU although all know how damaging this will be, not only economically.
And when it comes to Scotland's independency we hear England explain how damaging Scotland's leave from the UK would be for Scotland.
So it seems brexiters say it will be as damaging to Scotland leaving the UK as for the UK leaving the EU. Ahem.

But when i think of Scotland's production, economy, fishing grounds, north sea oil (not to forget science, Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics, Mr Wattson Watt and his home chain and lots of others (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries)) i wonder if Scotland would be so weak after all, and if it would not be able to hold its own. Especially when being in an international organisation like the EU, easing international scientifical and universitarial exchange.

Regarding "snide remarks" towards Scotland (or Ireland), i think just of all England has again excelled in unfortunate comments. The referendum about Scotland remaining in the UK was based on the assumption that the latter stayed in the EU. If anyone manages to drive Scotland out of the UK it is England.. not that i think this will and should happen.

[STEED]

What makes Sturgeon so sure if Scotland went independent of the rest of the UK the result Scotland remains in the EU? The EU has made it very clear if Scotland did that they will automatically be out of the EU and will have to ask the EU to rejoin as a new independent country. Of course the EU may fast track them back into the club if they so choose.

[Jimbuna]

Too many ifs and buts atm, crikey, it doesn't look like the UK will be leaving the EU any time soon the way things are currently going.

The words EU and fast track certainly get me wondering if and how often this is ever achieved.

[Catfish]

That was actually a good read IMHO....from a remainers point of view especially :yep:

Thanks, and the latter is true of course :). Though i have not read a real good and evident (for the lack of a better word i do not find) text that explains properly what will change for the better, after brexit. Apart from Mr Rees-Mogg's proposals that all depends on having to have more competition within England and then everything will sort out itself.

(Mogg)
"If the UK is to execute an independent trade policy then it can play a role in ensuring that there is an injection of wealth into the global economy. This will improve the lot of all mankind and we, the British people, will be propelled forward on this rising tide. To paraphrase Pitt the Younger we will have saved ourselves by our exertion and we will have saved the world by our example."

To put it bluntly I completely fail to see how this "strategy" or fairy tale will benefit the average person, let alone workers or the "lower class". The wealth of Rees-Mogg and his friends "trickling down"? Maybe removing "classes" would be a better idea in the long run?

This english guest comment (https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-03/brexit-musa-okwonga-xenophobia-racism-united-kingdom?page=2) appeared in one of the two better german newspapers "Die Zeit". Would you say this is reasonable, or "true"?

[Jimbuna]

I would say Mr. Mogg is living in a parallel universe to the rest of the UK and on a further note, I personally cannot see any end to this whole Brexit debacle that would be acceptable to both sides of the debate.

[ikalugin]

One Russian expert - Puhov, head of Russian think tank CAST, is sceptical if EU would last long due to aging and migrational pressures.
«Основная повестка дня – это не мифическая угроза из России. Это стареющая Европа, в которой живет полмиллиарда, и Африка с Ближним Востоком, где живет три миллиарда – и все ломятся в эту Европу за лучшей жизнью. И скоро она будет заполнена огромным количеством людей. И весь этот хваленый ЕС, который раздает пенсии и платит за страховки, развалится. Тогда Европа погрузится в хаос», – заявил он.

google translated version:
“The main agenda of the day is not a mythical threat from Russia. This is an aging Europe, in which half a billion lives, and Africa with the Middle East, where three billion live, and everyone is bursting into this Europe for a better life. And soon it will be filled with a huge number of people. And all this vaunted EU, which distributes pensions and pays for insurance, will collapse. Then Europe will plunge into chaos, ”he said.
https://www.tvc.ru/video/iframe/id/144377/isPlay/false/id_stat/news/type/html5/?acc_video_id=/news/show/id/159380

[Jimbuna]

Bitter Labour infighting over its controversial European elections leaflet continued today as 89 MPs and MEPs called on the party to back a second Brexit referendum.

Yet another Brexit row erupted in Jeremy Corbyn’s party after a draft election leaflet was found to contain no mention of a second vote.

It has prompted the MPs and MEPs – which include shadow Treasury ministers Clive Lewis and Anneliese Dodds – to put their names to a letter demanding that the party’s National Executive Committee (NEC) commits to a public vote during a meeting next week in which the manifesto will be decided.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-news-latest-bitter-labour-infighting-continues-as-89-mps-and-meps-make-second-referendum-demand-following-election-leaflet-fallout/ar-BBWly1d?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

It would appear Steptoe is starting to get some serious flack from those within his own party. It is long overdue that he shows his true colours regarding Brexit because it is common knowledge he has been anti-EU for two decades or more.

[Skybird]

One Russian expert - Puhov, head of Russian think tank CAST, is sceptical if EU would last long due to aging and migrational pressures.

google translated version:

https://www.tvc.ru/video/iframe/id/144377/isPlay/false/id_stat/news/type/html5/?acc_video_id=/news/show/id/159380
I so very very much must agree. As a matter of fact in the longer run I already have written off Europe. Age and demography are powers you cannot bypass. Europe lacks own vitality. Blood infusions from the ME and africa only turn Europe into the ME and Africa.

[Catfish]

^ Oh Putin, perfect saint of freedom and peace, come and save Europe from its folly.

[ikalugin]

^ Oh Putin, perfect saint of freedom and peace, come and save Europe from its folly.
We have our own problems that need fixing.

The concern this expert has is how instability in Europe may affect Russia and our allies.

While I doubt that we are quite at the stage where we need to prepare for waves of European refugees or repell German armoured spearheads (sarcasm) a wave of authoritarian leftists is not something we like after our own Soviet experience.

[Catfish]

[...]
While I doubt that we are quite at the stage where we need to prepare for waves of European refugees or repell German armoured spearheads (sarcasm) a wave of authoritarian leftists is not something we like after our own Soviet experience.

The wave of european refugees invading Russia :hmmm:
German armoured spearheads, well :03: :haha:
Authoritarian leftists after .. Stalin. You must have taken some of Skybird's drugs to compare Stalinism with the EU? Not that Stalin was 'left' in any regard. Weren't he and his successors all dictators?

[ikalugin]

Left authoritarianism exists.

[Skybird]

Left authoritarianism exists.
Indeed it does, in many different facets. From the military dictatorship in Venezuela to the left-leaning opinion dictate of media, politics and civil society in Germany that rules out and even sanctions any differing view or opinion that does oppose the mandatory consenus: it looks different, but its all symptoms of one and the same root evil. When consensus becomes mandatory (or in modern plain Merkel-German: "alternativlos/without any alternative") and gets enforced in totality, what is left then is tyranny.




"Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

"Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”

"Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death."

[ikalugin]

I won't go quite so far as you do, skybird though :D

[Skybird]

There is no half-way interruption, no early brake. You either think it consistently to the end of it, or you don't - and thus must ot even start. Much of the present'S mess is from too much of this shilly-shally egg-dancing around the original meaning of terms, this intended relabelling of things and qualities to hide higher from lower value, maeterially and morally, culturaly as well. Alll must become "relative" so that no hierarchical structuring can be done anymore and thus all and everything and everybody can be claimed of being of the same base value and essence. Socialism becomes "social justice", planned economy becomes "social market economy", and socialism and communism are claimed to be different while truth is they relate to each other like cloud, water and ice, In principle its all the same.


The lief has become the new deity. And dancing around it and believing it, is a collective duty and the citizen's first obligation. Don't join, and media and public opinion and influencers and PR specialssts will excommunicate you immediateky and declare open season on you.


It is beign illustrtaed to be like that every single dan day over here, wqhenever I oen any newspaper or zap into any talkshow format. Public edcuation at schools and universities is is heavily infested with this that you cannot escape feeling that it all is hopeless.


Its extremely desillusionizing. Here the campaign for the EU electiosn has started. The stupid talking skyrockets into the air, the posters along the streets show great diversity in saying all the some thing: "Hello, we are still here, and we are as stupid and dumb as always before: come and join us!"


An this stupidity is not just passively there and is not just dumb: it actively hunts down others not falling for it and brings them down and then devours them. More and more tutors and teachers at universitys learn that living amongst predatory stupids, is dangerous and can ruin the material, economic basis of your mere existence.


No ikalugin, either tthink it to the end, or do not even start thinking. Any compromise is just your approval to get corrupted. And by that you corrupt and censor free thinking itself.

[ikalugin]

No ikalugin, either tthink it to the end, or do not even start thinking. Any compromise is just your approval to get corrupted. And by that you corrupt and censor free thinking itself.Said like a true radical.


I am a mere moderate though. I respect your individual choice though.

[Skybird]

I see. Trying to be consistent, disqualifies you to be a "radical", and corrupting argument and straight thought, enobles you to be a "moderate".

Certainly explains why so many luke-warm promise-raisers and straightout fraudsters and plunderers can make it to rank and fame in politics and maximise the damages they cause, always at the longterm cost of the people.

Since this is so, I rather be as radical as is possible for me to achieve. I may loose on society that way, but I keep my integrity that way. And of the two, the latter is so much more worth to me.

[ikalugin]

Back on topic though, any news on BREXIT? Is it still in the air or is it dead now?

[Jimbuna]

Back on topic though, any news on BREXIT? Is it still in the air or is it dead now?

And not before time.

An interesting (IMHO) and well written article taking in the opinions of both sides of the divide.

England and France: a tale of two coastlines https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/england-and-france-a-tale-of-two-coastlines/ar-BBWmPS2?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Reece]

I wonder how many and how high the bets placed on the outcome??:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Brandon Lewis has refused to say when the Tories' European election campaign will launch, saying his priority is not to have to fight them at all.

The UK is due to elect new MEPs on 23 May, after Brexit was delayed amid continuing parliamentary deadlock.

Several parties have launched their campaigns already but Conservative chair Mr Lewis told the BBC his focus was on next week's local elections.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October, or sooner if a deal is agreed.

This means the UK must now hold European Parliament elections on 23 May if it wants to avoid leaving the EU without a deal.

But if agreement can be reached among MPs before 22 May, the UK could cancel its participation in the elections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48083407

Here we have a classic example of the Totries inflicting yet more self harm on themselves :nope:

[ikalugin]

Yea, I am not sure how torries are going to recover after shooting themselves in the foot.

[Skybird]

Here we have a classic example of the Totries inflicting yet more self harm on themselves :nope:
EU members and central committee expect British delegates to abstain in decision forming processes after elections were held, since the election now is - at least it gets sold as that to the public - a formality only, with Britain forced to participate just so to avoid legal complications over future decisions by the EU if it is found that with Britain still being formal member it nevertheless held no elections and thus any decisions by operetta parliament would be illegal and could be legally challenged and found being invalid alltogether. Nobody wants the British to participate in decision forming if they leave the EU, and it makes sense - it is a legal threat only that made the EU demand them to participate in elections. A formality.

So does it really matter whether British parties hold a campaign, assuming of course that in the end there will be a formal-only/soft or real/robust Brexit? No, it would not.

Save the money that campaigning costs for something stupid that at least is more entertaining. Campaigning means eager narcissists printing posters that say "Look we are still here!" and "We are as stupid as ever before, join us!" Money for that!?

[Jimbuna]

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.

Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

[ikalugin]

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.

Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.
I seem to recall that UKIP plans to run in those elections and do exactly that.

[Skybird]

But should the Tories not bother contesting any of the seats, the door will be left open for those (insert the many here) who will contest them just to create as much mayhem as possible in the EU parliament.
I think they indeed should make a pig's breakast of it since the EU demonstrated its willingness again to just forget the meaning of laws and rules and bypass them if it serves the purpose. I mean if the rule says that members must hold elections for parliament, what does it tell you then when the EU expects one such de factor member then to not practice its membership rights? It is arbirtry following and not following one'S own rules. And that means the rules mean nothing at all.



Either way, this does not bode well for the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

The UK played it all way too kind and servile anyway, Jim. Look where it got you as far as the demands by the EU are concerned. It did not serve you well to play the game by their rules. They bullied you into a corner in return. Weakness does not pay off.



I th8inbk the UK should threaten to withdraw its police, militrary andf intel ressoruces from cooperation with continetal Euzrope. That would be a sting for sure, with only two milkitaries in Europoe being ready to fight a real war, the Briotish nukes beign the only ones beign fully committed to NATO (the French nukes are not) and the British intel being the most important one for anti terror and military defence as well.



That is also the reason why I think the UK must take the threat by Washington more serious to not to share sensitive information with the UK anymore in case of Huawei not being blocked from network building. It would effectively be the end of being member of the five-eyes club.

[Jimbuna]

I seem to recall that UKIP plans to run in those elections and do exactly that.

Precisely :yep:

I think they indeed should make a pig's breakast of it since the EU demonstrated its willingness again to just forget the meaning of laws and rules and bypass them if it serves the purpose. I mean if the rule says that members must hold elections for parliament, what does it tell you then when the EU expects one such de factor member then to not practice its membership rights? It is arbirtry following and not following one'S own rules. And that means the rules mean nothing at all.



The UK played it all way too kind and servile anyway, Jim. Look where it got you as far as the demands by the EU are concerned. It did not serve you well to play the game by their rules. They bullied you into a corner in return. Weakness does not pay off.



I th8inbk the UK should threaten to withdraw its police, militrary andf intel ressoruces from cooperation with continetal Euzrope. That would be a sting for sure, with only two milkitaries in Europoe being ready to fight a real war, the Briotish nukes beign the only ones beign fully committed to NATO (the French nukes are not) and the British intel being the most important one for anti terror and military defence as well.



That is also the reason why I think the UK must take the threat by Washington more serious to not to share sensitive information with the UK anymore in case of Huawei not being blocked from network building. It would effectively be the end of being member of the five-eyes club.

I'm not sure the politicians (being led by a Remainer) will be prepared to carry out much if anything of the above atm.

Never have I seen my country so divided but hopefully a price will be paid at the forthcoming local elections later this week.

The downside of the above is the prospect of the alternative being a great deal worse.

[STEED]

Well I will not be voting along with many people up and down the land. A neighbour near me told me the labour candidate knocked on his door and after being told he was not voting the candidate said a lot of people have told him the same thing.

I have seen in my ward many more lib/lab and green billboards and posters this year. Personally I can not bother as they all promise this and that and deliver nothing.

As for the EU elections I am going to vote for the Brexit party only because those traitors at Westminster have lied to us and I still feel they should all be removed and never allowed to stand ever again.

[Catfish]

Home office seeks to end free movement with a no deal brexit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-immigration/uk-home-office-will-seek-to-end-free-movement-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit-idUSKCN1PM2LA

No more continental travel without visa for you :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Home office seeks to end free movement with a no deal brexit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-immigration/uk-home-office-will-seek-to-end-free-movement-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit-idUSKCN1PM2LA

No more continental travel without visa for you :hmmm:

I should imagine reciprocal measures will be imposed but sadly that may be self harming should tourist levels to Spain and Greece etc. fall dramatically.

Overall though, not good for either side.

[Jimbuna]

It looks like Steptoe could well be getting himself boxed in, Labour are looking for the best of both worlds without committing themselves wholeheartedly to any specific stance/position.

Labour's governing body has agreed to support a further referendum on Brexit under certain circumstances.

The National Executive Committee met to decide the wording of its manifesto for May's European elections.

It rejected the idea of campaigning for a referendum under all circumstances - as supported by deputy leader Tom Watson and many Labour Party members.

But the party will demand a public vote if it cannot get changes to the government's deal or an election.

Labour is "the only party which represents both people who supported Leave and Remain", a spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48099901

[Skybird]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8966455/theresa-may-first-tory-leader-185-years-emergency-grassroots-vote-demanding-resignation/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=73e853c2f7-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_04_30_06_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-73e853c2f7-190417541



THERESA May has become the first Tory leader in 185 years to face an emergency grassroots vote to oust her.
The PM (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/8949582/theresa-may-brexit-ceasefire-council-elections/) is to be hauled in front of a snap meeting all 800 constituency chairmen and senior activists (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8958583/theresa-may-conservatives-local-elections-brexit/) in June, who will decide whether to demand her resignation for failing to deliver Brexit.

[Jimbuna]

Though the EGM vote is not binding, losing it would be Mrs May’s deepest humiliation yet and spark overwhelming pressure on her to stand down immediately.

I'm not so sure she would resign, she's been through so much already she's probably battle hardened.

It would be nice to see some of the MP's facing similar action.

[STEED]

I just seen two Tories wearing rosettes and clipboards! :o

Bloody heck they must be desperate for votes around here as this ward in most part is Lib and now again Labour.

I have put up a big sign on my door telling them to sod off I'm not voting and if they dare ring my bell I will give them a verbal telling off.

[ikalugin]

Yea, I forsee Labour winning.


All the good it would do to CASD.

[Catfish]

It is not about Tories or Whigs. You have a constitutional crisis. Decisions are being delayed, again and again, 'until the future of the UK can be decided!, but "there is no idea or future to see for the british economy" as Mr. Heseltine has said long before.
Delaying decisions have no positive effect. They should have started right after the referendum, there is no need for a pm to do that. And whoever is or will be prime minister will do the same. The negotioations are and will be the same with whoever is pm.

Old but still true, and it only has got worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbSV5C9PXk

It is like i have said two years ago, let Boris Johnson lead the negotiations, to show us the EU and the UK what he actually wants to do and negotiate, and how bright brexit is. He would not have been to be a PM for doing so. He got you into the mess, and he (or Farage) should have to put up. But not with nebulous stories of grandeur, patriotism and lies, but with the real thing.

[Jimbuna]

It is not about Tories or Whigs. You have a constitutional crisis. Decisions are being delayed, again and again, 'until the future of the UK can be decided!, but "there is no idea or future to see for the british economy" as Mr. Heseltine has said long before.
Delaying decisions have no positive effect. They should have started right after the referendum, there is no need for a pm to do that. And whoever is or will be prime minister will do the same. The negotioations are and will be the same with whoever is pm.

Old but still true, and it only has got worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbSV5C9PXk

It is like i have said two years ago, let Boris Johnson lead the negotiations, to show us the EU and the UK what he actually wants to do and negotiate, and how bright brexit is. He would not have been to be a PM for doing so. He got you into the mess, and he (or Farage) should have to put up. But not with nebulous stories of grandeur, patriotism and lies, but with the real thing.

Agreed :yep:

[STEED]

MayBot is going no where because there is no one to replace her, these morons from MP's to grass roots level are so blinded and hell bent on just the short term home goal. Yes without doubt she has been a bloody walking disaster right from the days of her in the Home Office but she has the Ace card called Jezzer.

[Jimbuna]

As a relatively new defence secretary, Gavin Williamson once said that Russia should "go away and shut up".

Well, the prime minister has told him to go away because in her view, he did not shut up.

In a leak investigation, that has broken the precedent of most leak investigations that end up with precisely no result at all, a rapid hunt of just a few days has resulted in the sacking of one of the most senior ministers in government, and one of the few ministers frankly, that the prime minister could more or less rely on.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48128188

You know what they say...'What goes around, comes around'

[STEED]

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jv6rzvvj_1uiyyyq_lhi0fq.png

[Jimbuna]

With just about all the votes counted here are the key points of yesterdays local elections.

The Conservatives have lost control of 19 councils - including Peterborough, Basildon and St Albans. Labour has lost control of three - Hartlepool, Bolsover and Wirral.

Labour has also lost its mayoral post in Middlesbrough to an independent.

The Conservatives have won two councils - Walsall and North East Lincolnshire - both of which had no party with overall control before.

The Liberal Democrats have gained eight councils - including Winchester, North Norfolk, Cotswold, Bath and North East Somerset and Vale of White Horse.

Labour has won one council - Trafford - a former Conservative stronghold.

Where independent candidates have been standing, they have won on average 25% of the vote - and independents have taken control of two councils - Ashfield and North Kesteven.

The Green Party has gained 42 councillors so far, while UKIP has lost 54.

Turnout is averaging just one or two points below the last two local elections, reversing predictions of a major drop off in voters.

It could and perhaps should have been so much worse for the Tories but Labour really don't have the confidence of the public whilst Steptoe is at the helm.

[Jimbuna]

Results continue to pour in so I've put a live link below....most entertaining :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48131095

[STEED]

What is all the who-Ha? Why is the media going nuts and experts having a field day? For crying out loud there is nothing new about this, its traditional mid term local elections backlash against the government of the day. Get a bloody grip people and calm down will you.

Of course the Libs did well the voters have forgiven them for their coalition with the Tories and moved on and yes the Greens and Independent lot did well as well.

All this shows is we are on course for a very close hung parliament at the next general election. I have been saying this for years, the only thing I was hoping for was a UKIP wipeout but that did not happen oh well there is still hope at the EU elections later this month.

Just to add here we are back to NOC council so what is new? This place always swings from Tory to LIb and back to NOC big deal.

[STEED]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48152475

Another blow to Labour as Baldrick leaves the party.

[STEED]

https://news.sky.com/story/local-elections-pm-faces-backlash-as-tories-lose-more-than-1-200-councillors-11710579

So more than 1,200 Tory councillors wiped out and the experts say this should bring down May or cause even greater pressure for her to go before December. I have my doubts due too all that has gone before and May is still here.

[Skybird]

Or to illustrate the dramatic losses of the Tories by quoting Der Spiegel: they lost 38% of all their former seats. Thirty-eight.

Tories lost 1335 seats, Labour lost just 86 seats.

Liberal Democrats won 704 seats.

All in all the vote was about over 8000 seats.

[Jimbuna]

Or to illustrate the dramatic losses of the Tories by quoting Der Spiegel: they lost 38% of all their former seats. Thirty-eight.

Tories lost 1335 seats, Labour lost just 86 seats.

Liberal Democrats won 704 seats.

All in all the vote was about over 8000 seats.

Very true but will the politicians learn from this?

I doubt it.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[STEED]

They never learn because they don't care and don't give a toss about the voters as its just one big game to them. They know enough stupid voters are out there will vote for them keeping the system in place. I predict this now the Brexit party will wipe the floor with the rest and still they will do what they want.

It will get worst than this mark my words and stick around for the mess.

[STEED]

IDS calls for May to go now..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48161178

I say jim has better odds on having a busty maid pulling him a few cold frosty beers. :)

[Skybird]

From Steed's link:


"Two discredited administrations making a discredited deal is not the answer to the electorate."


But May already has started to weasel and egg-dance again, denying reality. Maybe the party should distribute stones and clubs to delegates to chase her away. And maybe she would even then sit still and smile, thinking the crowd just came to play Cricket.

[BossMark]

Well since my abscence the Tories have been upto their usual nasty tricks, but got a good thumping in local elections, but my party did not do much better though and to put the icing on the cake my friend the Labour candidate got beat in my town by the Liberals :wah: we have no Labour now but overall Leeds still as a Labour majorit.

[Jimbuna]

John McDonnell: No trust left in PM over Brexit talks https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48165373

The usual bias from the man who carries the little red book around with him everywhere he goes.

The people of the UK have no trust left for any politician regardless of whichever political persuasion they come from. Even if Parliament were to be dissolved I believe it would end up in a hung result so how we get out of this mess only God must know.

One thing is apparent though, the far right will make much hay whilst the sun shines and I should imagine Nigel and his chums will be rubbing their hands with glee.

[ikalugin]

I wonder if it is correct to call many of them far right, for example UKIP seems to represent classical liberalism from the limited knowledge I have of them.

[STEED]

I see both sides are wording the brexit talks its down to the other side. Typical both Cons/Lab playing the blame game too set in their ways and agendas.

[Jimbuna]

Huawei leak did not amount to criminal offence, police say https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48160004

It has taken all this time and effort to announce the obvious but hopefully there will now be an independent inquiry into this matter so the guy can have a chance of clearing his name.

[STEED]

It has taken all this time and effort to announce the obvious but hopefully there will now be an independent inquiry into this matter so the guy can have a chance of clearing his name.


I have a feeling he was a escape goat as clearly he has nothing to hide by saying bring it on lets get to the bottom of this.

[STEED]

Brexit deal 99% DONE: May and Corbyn very CLOSE to breakthrough

Warning Daily Express

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1123224/Brexit-deal-latest-theresa-pay-jeremy-corbyn

So what! Its already being reported Labour remainers and Tory brexiteers will reject the botched plan.

[BossMark]

Warning Daily Express

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1123224/Brexit-deal-latest-theresa-pay-jeremy-corbyn

So what! Its already being reported Labour remainers and Tory brexiteers will reject the botched plan.


So looks like we will be back to square one again :timeout:

[STEED]

So looks like we will be back to square one again :timeout:

If the reports are correct Parliament will reject it.


https://www.tert.am/news_images/269/806797_3/f5476f9a25ac4b_5476f9a25ac85.jpg
Terminate Parliament and start again.

[Jimbuna]

Warning Daily Express

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1123224/Brexit-deal-latest-theresa-pay-jeremy-corbyn

So what! Its already being reported Labour remainers and Tory brexiteers will reject the botched plan.

If the reports are correct Parliament will reject it.


https://www.tert.am/news_images/269/806797_3/f5476f9a25ac4b_5476f9a25ac85.jpg
Terminate Parliament and start again.

Precisely!!

[Jimbuna]

It looks like the UK now has no choice other than to take part in the European elections and can blame nobody but itself (or Parliament to be more precise).

The UK has 73 seats to full and one can only try to imagine the problems some of those elected will most likely present with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48188951

[BossMark]

I have voted in every election, general, local and euros since 1983 but i may give this one a miss.

[Jimbuna]

Rest assure, Brexiteers won't.

[STEED]

What's new? I knew this was going to happen the second May's option failed the first time. I am voting for the Brexit party because we were lied to. The rotten liar's are Westminster who wrote it into law we would leave the EU on March 29th 2019 with or without a deal, the deal was rejected and we are still in the EU. How can anyone trust that lot at Westminster ever again.

[Catfish]

^ so you vote for those who lied to you. Makes so much sense.
But hey 've got an idea what you can do with your rotten fish right after brexit: Place it all fair and square in Mr. Farage's face, with 9,81 m/sec^2.
Thank you.

[STEED]

Ten years ago, the MPs' expenses scandal erupted and shook the British political system to its foundations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48187096


I found it a laugh at the time and blown up by The Telegraph newspaper.

[JU_88]

^ so you vote for those who lied to you. Makes so much sense.
But hey 've got an idea what you can do with your rotten fish right after brexit: Place it all fair and square in Mr. Farage's face, with 9,81 m/sec^2.
Thank you.

Care to enlighten us as to which party doesn't lie? :hmmm:
Both the Tory and Labours most recent manifesto's were pretty much the stuff of fantasy.
At this point I hope people vote for anyone but those two, LibDem Ukip, Greens, i don't even like those three either but at this point I don't care, those two need to learn a lesson.
All they seem to care about is their own party preservation.

[Jimbuna]

^ On that we can both agree Francis :yep:

[Jimbuna]

EU's chief Brexit negotiators brand Theresa May 'insane' and 'pathetic' in foul-mouthed rant seen in a damaging BBC fly-on-the-wall documentary.

The Prime Minister is branded 'pathetic' by top Brexit negotiators from the European Parliament in a new film about talks between Britain and the EU.

Brexit: Behind Closed Doors shows a team led by Guy Verhofstadt branding her 'insane' and laughing at the UK.

Verhofstadt's chief of staff, Guillaume McLaughlin, responds to the news that a Brexit deal is no longer possible because the PM hasn't cleared it with the DUP, with a foul-mouthed rant.

According to The Sun, he says: 'What the ******* is wrong with her. That’s insane. "I don’t know, I haven’t spoken to her?" That’s ridiculous. Pathetic, pathetic.'

The fly-on-the-wall BBC documentary shows him scream 'oh ******* off' at a TV screen showing Mrs May telling the Tory conference she wants a deal as Edel Rettman Crosse, Verhofstadt’s top aide, backs him up.

After Leave-supporting Andrew Rosindell MP argues with Verhofstadt over the Irish border, Crosse tells Verhofstadt: 'I’m most proud of you when you take on a Tory, he was a *******er' and adds he should 'shoot the *******er'.

The two-part BBC4 series starts tonight and also shows top negotiator Michel Barnier mocking Britain.

It also features Verhodstadt commenting on Mrs May's infamous twerk to Dancing Queen as an Italian MEP suggests Barnier's theme should be The Winner Takes It All.

Roberto Gualtieri, member of the Brexit Steering Group, suggests that Barnier should use the song, to which Verhofstadt says 'that would be sexier'.

The series also reveals disparaging comments by German Christian Democract MEP Elmar Brok, who says the EU must not help the UK while it is 'in a mess'.

It was created by filmmaker Lode Desmet, who is Belgian and had exclusive access to Verhofstadt and his team for two years.

In his series, Michel Barnier speculates as to who the EU should negotiate with in the talks.

He asks whether it should be Brexit Secretary David Davis or Downing Street adviser and suggests it should be someone 'stable, available and reliable'. Verhofstadt jokes that the bloc cannot ask to much of Britain.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/eus-chief-brexit-negotiators-brand-theresa-may-insane-and-pathetic-in-foul-mouthed-rant-seen-in-a-damaging-bbc-fly-on-the-wall-documentary/ar-AAB4tJW?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Disappointed but not really surprised.

[STEED]

^ so you vote for those who lied to you.

How do you work that one out? The Brexit party is a brand new party, I'm voting for them as said in my post Parliament lied to us. My vote is against Parliament and their handling of the whole Brexit situation. For better or worst we should have left on March 29th this year with or without a deal and Parliament thinks we the voters work for them! WRONG WRONG WRONG, THEY WORK FOR US.

This debacle has gone way belong Brexit and the big two Cons/Lab have failed. It's time for these dinosaurs to get out of town they have had their day and failed.


Care to enlighten us as to which party doesn't lie? :hmmm:
Both the Tory and Labours most recent manifesto's were pretty much the stuff of fantasy.
At this point I hope people vote for anyone but those two, LibDem Ukip, Greens, i don't even like those three either but at this point I don't care, those two need to learn a lesson.
All they seem to care about is their own party preservation.
Hear hear. :salute:

[Catfish]

^ who stands for the new brexit party, or founded it? All the old names.
Blaiklock. And now Rees-Mogg and Farage. While it may be that Mogg is 'misguided' by having read and uncritically believed in the book his father wrote, Farage is a fear mongerer, a xenophobe, a hater, an egomanic self-righteous hypocrite, clearly untrustworthy and completely unsympathetic. If we did not know that Farage is Farage, he would be in an asylum.
But maybe he will rise to be your great leader, who knows with Russia, Rupert Murdoch, Aaron Banks and Steve Bannon in the background, assisted by Cambridge Analytica and other oh so trustworthy entities.


https://i.imgur.com/aKHNwZ2l.jpg


You have been lied to and betrayed by the brexiters, what the Tories then did was just trying to find an answer where there is none. Labour would have been worse, what the then-brexit party did, we all saw. Run Nigel, run. And Johnson.

So the goal for the new brexit party is brexit and only brexit, and again there is no one who is making any plan for the time after. And I take it if this party wins, the first to quit and run will be Farage, again.

It is exactly this what currently changes the international view on England, and what everybody sees is not pretty.

[Jimbuna]

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is expected to warn the UK about allowing Chinese firm Huawei access to critical infrastructure on a visit to London.

Mr Pompeo will hold talks with Theresa May and make a speech on foreign policy ahead of US President Donald Trump's state visit next month.

The US is reported to be alarmed at Huawei's possible involvement in building the UK's 5G mobile network.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48198932

I share the US concern but wonder if it has something to do with the current trade war between the US and China.

[STEED]

This debacle has gone way belong Brexit

AS I SAID.

[STEED]

I share the US concern but wonder if it has something to do with the current trade war between the US and China.

I would say about 80%. :03:

[BossMark]

With all this brexit chaos i would love to find the rock toffboy as crawled under...:timeout:

[Catfish]

^ it is about trade war, and the chinese silk road.
Huawei has been open to foreign probes, visits and has explained all, they claim that there is no involvement by the chinese government, and up to now there is no other evidence.
Clear that you can of course intercept and read eMails and chats and digital signals, but the underlying code and protocol of the technical 5G net is not so complicated that it cannot be seen through.

As far as german specialists are involved, there is no backdoor or digital spy. Of course encrypted signals can be deciphered given computing power and time, but 5G itself, meaning the hardware and the protocol, is open for everyone to look at. The problem begins when you direct encrypted data through it, but the current hubbub is as if you say that electrical powerlines alone are spying on you.

After reading a lot of technical stuff about 5G i also wonder where the evidence is, of 'backdoors' or spyware. As far as i know the first claim has been properly debunked. As said before, anything can be intercepted, no encryption will be safe if the leading secret services get their hands on it.

"It is hard to imagine that unnoticed in this way, all data that goes through a network, could be forwarded to unauthorized persons. The corresponding data volume would be enormous and correspondingly conspicuous. More plausible is the risk that data can be filtered via the remote maintenance access, for example by data type, sender or recipient; the corresponding amounts of data would probably not attract attention in large networks.

In this way, one could actually engage in political or economic espionage.

In fact, it was the concern of that very kind of espionage that led the federal government, after the Snowden revelations, to stop using products from the US company Verizon on the government and federal government network."


"The supreme irony of what is being claimed is that while the U.S. government is warning all the world to avoid using Chinese-made phones, especially those made by Huawei and ZTE, the NSA was caught implanting backdoor software in Huawei servers with a goal of spying on Huawei and its customers."

[ikalugin]

There is always a concern about non declared capabilities.


For example we are trying to build up domestic production for key infrastructure projects such as:
- government and military C4 networks.
- government admin network.
- networks for key research and industrial (ie in nuclear sector) organisations.
- internal ISP networks (ie the ones reponsible for control of the general service networks).
etc.
https://habr.com/ru/post/300766/
But for civilian/consumer purposes we do use imported (Western and Chinese) equipment, even though there were cases in the past (Lybia, Syria) where cyber attacks used undeclared functionality to significantly disrupt their operations.

[STEED]

The PM has rejected calls for her to quit over her handling of Brexit, saying it is "not an issue about me".

Theresa May was replying to Tory Brexiteer Andrea Jenkyns, who said she had "failed to deliver on her promises" on Brexit and had lost public trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199725

What trust? She is a walking disaster, bogged up in the Home Office bogged up as Tory leader and PM and bogged up Brexit! And still Teflon Bog up May is still here and why? There is no one to replace her that I can see.


JUST SAW SOME BREAKING NEWS......


BREAKING
George Osborne: Former chancellor urges cabinet to move against Theresa May
George Osborne tells Sky News he thinks the time has come for a new leader and new mandate in the Conservative Party.

https://news.sky.com/story/george-osborne-former-chancellor-urges-cabinet-to-move-against-theresa-may-11714591

[Skybird]

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.



I have linked one or two weeks ago to an explanation about the 5G network and the risks that may or may not be involved from a technical standpoint, but I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual. It is more dangerous than you imply, and not as immediate a danger than the US paints it as - but it is a risk for sure, many experts from different nations agree on that, and quite some nations agree on that and have Huawei already banned. Like Windows can be safely assumed to have hidden ackdoors demanded by the US govenrment, the Chinese would be stupid if not using the opportunity to infiltrate Western networks with their technology in return. Its too tmepting to be able to overhear Wetsern key communication at critical points of the infrastructure, or to be able to wreak havoc on said infratrriucture in case of an according future scenario where China sees that opötion as profitable for its interests.

[ikalugin]

Skybird, the problem of network equipment vulnerability has been studied in Russia for a long time.


The conclusion is that unless the equipment is used for critical roles then the vulnerabilities you describe are not relevant, especially considering the modern shift towards secure encryption everywhere outside of subsim forums via HTTPS etc. As such we are ok with using Western (or Chinese) in non critical, civilian applications.
And considering the Western cyberpower we would be the first to re-consider that use if there was a real issue.

[Mr Quatro]

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.

I have linked one or two weeks ago to an explanation about the 5G network and the risks that may or may not be involved from a technical standpoint, but I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual. It is more dangerous than you imply, and not as immediate a danger than the US paints it as - but it is a risk for sure, many experts from different nations agree on that, and quite some nations agree on that and have Huawei already banned. Like Windows can be safely assumed to have hidden ackdoors demanded by the US govenrment, the Chinese would be stupid if not using the opportunity to infiltrate Western networks with their technology in return. Its too tmepting to be able to overhear Wetsern key communication at critical points of the infrastructure, or to be able to wreak havoc on said infratrriucture in case of an according future scenario where China sees that opötion as profitable for its interests.


Whooe! I do not really care to look it up for you again, since you will ignore unwelcomed challenges to your worldview anyway, as usual.

I could feel Sky's frustration with you Catfish and I love both of you ... good post Sky:up:

[Catfish]

So good to know that the Chinese always say just the truth, Catfish.

Oh i would not trust them of course, control is always better. Huawei may be a private company (whatever this means in a "communist" country, which really is a dictatorship), but one of the laws in China states that every individual has to help the secret service...
What i did read in your links back then is that there are no spying charges against the company, and even in the case that's happening in the US right now no one has been found guilty of anything yet.

Using technology is always a risk, and since i already linked to Marc Elsberg's book in wich a cyber attack is being described (if a terrorist one) with the power grid collapsing all over Europe i guess everyone who has eyes is aware of the threat. Maybe some are a bit paranoid if they have "the five eyes".

[Skybird]

What is to be taken from that article I linked to was that the tehzcno9logical concept of why and what in 5G poses a risk, is behind the time, I mean it is basiung on an outdated, now misled understanding, and that the threat analysis needs to take into accoujnht the newer possibilities of how the technology can be abused. And then the American concerns all of a sudden make an awesome lot of sense. As have already been concluded by Austrlaia and New Zealand, two other members of the five eye club who have banned Huawei.

The Europeans once again try to just hurt nobody's preciosu sentiments when weaseling around Huawei.

Lets do business with Huawei, their consumer products like tablets and smartphones are pretty good, and very good bang for the buck, beats Apple and is at least en par with Samsung, why not use them in the private realm, I do it myself. In business and critical infrastructure I already would be far more hesitent. But these are not the issues that matter. While their network technology is state of the art and seems to lead the competition and is faster than anyone else'S, it is assessed by outdated European technological security standards/concepts that can no longer correctly describe the risks of 5G. And therein lies the danger of espionage and cyber warfare.



Me thinks currently the whole thing named 5G is a bad idea. It needs a lot of broadcasting towers, it has shorter range, thus it will cost immense money for the support hardware infrastructure, will raise the electromagntic emission level dramatically, and will necessarily not redeuce but increase the number of black holes where you have no contact to the network. POolitcs push it only becasue it is needed for the speed-dpeending new communication and autonomous traffic infrastructure that is so headlessly wanted by the party. Once again it seems the Germans make the most German of all their mistakes: wanting not just a workable, pragmatic solution, but the perfect, the outstanding, the morally superior, the world'S best technological solution: and in the end getting something terribly mediocre that for years will not work even just properly. - Autonomous mobility, another dead end, in my opinion. And the last word on e-mobility also is not yet spoken, battery versus fuel cell - I read todsay that the race has been reopened again by German, Chinese and Japanese comopanies investing into fuelo cells now. - Closing the many blackholes on the German map and pushing the (low) avergae speeds of internet over here by introducing something incredibly more complex and prone to problems - it cannot get any more German than this. :o Its a national disease.

[STEED]

I have a better idea they all pile into jim's man shed and give jim a shed load of money and beer and jim can retire. :03:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48199355

[Jimbuna]

European elections 2019: Labour can unite our country, says Corbyn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48208846

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGau8RBMNG8

[Jimbuna]

Theresa May has bought herself another week’s grace as prime minister, hinting she will bring the EU withdrawal bill to parliament before the European elections and promising to meet a powerful backbench committee who have demanded that she set out her timetable for stepping down.

After a fortnight of furious demands by Tory MPs that she give a firm date for her departure, Sir Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee, said May had agreed to meet him and the 13-strong executive of Tory backbenchers next week.

He gave no indication that May intended to provide a firm departure date at the meeting, but the promise will buy the prime minister an extra week to continue cross-party Brexit talks with Labour, before the Conservatives could consider changing leadership rules to force her exit.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/may-buys-time-with-hints-at-new-withdrawal-bill-vote-and-exit-date/ar-AAB5NHX?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

A very stubborn individual in my estimation....not that I believe anyone else is more qualified or capable of unravelling this mess we currently find ourselves in.

[Skybird]

An essay in two parts. It demasks the imperial arrogance of the EU in its haughty dealing with the UK and hints at the deeper intentions of why the EU is so determined in trying to use Backstop as a way to crack down on London until it either renders the executed Brexit as so soft that it is meaningless, or the UK steps back form Brexit alltogether. It goes far beyond just the UK. Any way it is a list of reasons for why I dispise the EU so much and want it to be destroyed - at any cost. Because we must start to learn form history. The existence of the EU as it is now and as they want it, shows that we do not learn at all. We repeat the mistakes of the past - and celebrate ourselves for it.



https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fder_erp resserische_hochmut_der_eu


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2FBrexit_ nordirland_als_eu_protekoriar

[STEED]

If corbyn thinks he can get more votes than the brexit party he is not seeing the bigger picture. Mind you even the tories and libs seem rather off the ball or worried behind closed doors.

[STEED]

Oh please not her throwing her hat into the tory leadership ring.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48212755

[Reece]

I'll do this for you STEED: :doh::doh::doh:

[BossMark]

Oh please not her throwing her hat into the tory leadership ring.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48212755
Jesus H Christ thats all we need this evil cow will make thatcher look like an angel :wah::wah::wah::wah::wah:

[Jimbuna]

An essay in two parts. It demasks the imperial arrogance of the EU in its haughty dealing with the UK and hints at the deeper intentions of why the EU is so determined in trying to use Backstop as a way to crack down on London until it either renders the executed Brexit as so soft that it is meaningless, or the UK steps back form Brexit alltogether. It goes far beyond just the UK. Any way it is a list of reasons for why I dispise the EU so much and want it to be destroyed - at any cost. Because we must start to learn form history. The existence of the EU as it is now and as they want it, shows that we do not learn at all. We repeat the mistakes of the past - and celebrate ourselves for it.



https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fder_erp resserische_hochmut_der_eu


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2FBrexit_ nordirland_als_eu_protekoriar

Most interesting and informative Sky :yep:

I'm wondering how keen they will be to hang onto Britains financial contributions though after the Brexit MEP's take their seats :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Jesus H Christ thats all we need this evil cow will make thatcher look like an angel :wah::wah::wah::wah::wah:

The only two I would consider would be Hunt and Javid but I fear Boris will be the party favourite.

[Skybird]

Most interesting and informative Sky :yep:

Yes, but a very frustrating read. Shows how deep in the EU mess we are really.

Honestly said, and without allowing galloping emotions to exaggerate my reason and assessment, I think the EU, what it wants to be and enforces to become, will become the very reason why Europe will see another round of huge conflict and huge war breaking out again sooner or later. The EU will become the reason of its own self-fulfilling prophecy. And the stronger it will have become by that time, the more mercilessly and dearly the people across Europe will suffer from that conflict then. This consequence is only natural, and thus unavoidable. But should one take worry or comfort from that?

Wehret den Anfängen, resist the beginnings, is a common German slogan since WWII. Its just that the Germans misinterpret it 180 degrees at the wrong direction. And along with them a whole continental population of almost half a billion. Its discouraging, and frustrating. Anothger common German slogan is Nie wieder Krieg, Never war again. How wrong and misled this is. It rules out to defend the good and the worthyful. The german consequence of the Third Reich should have been: Never again fighting for the evil and the totalitarian and the wrong. Always make sure to only fight on the side of the good and worthy, for our German as well as European freedom and dignity.


Not for some increasingly feudal tyranny.

[Jimbuna]

I'm not so sure war or military conflict will be the eventual outcome but I do believe it will all end up in some kind of turmoil eventually.

[Skybird]

It already has begun. In the past 10-20 years, rifts have deepened and gaps have widened. The currency has not brought growing equality of economic regions, but growing alienation and a sharpenign of economic contrasts. A growing conflict about redistrubuting the reserves of the net payers to the net receivers gets enforced by the ECB and even international organisations like WB and ICF. Massive Muslim migration and mass migration of foreign young men with totally different cultural socialisation and values. Growing hostility from Eastern nations confronting the EU increasingly becasue they do not want all this madness. Growing scepticism in populations, a decline in own identity. Growing independence movements in practically all parts of Europe. Growing extremism and religious orthodoxy. Growing totalitarian demand by the EU itself. Growing aggressiveness of special interest groups influencing the EU legislation.

Once the economic component goes berserk due to Europe not being able anymore to compete with the Asian-Chinese block (we lack behind in education, technological key branches, demographic development, school quality, and we fall behind ever more) and Silicon valley industries, things will become interesting.

The knifes sit much looser than you may think possible, Jim. The walls of the European house are made more of paint than solid bricks. And maybe we will be thankful for that, once the conflict can no longer be denied. We are too full of ourselves, we have no longer a realistic self-perception. China, Islam, US key corporations to whose parties we all have come already too late, demography, an impotent currency system, and paedagogic self-erosion of our education systems - it all comes together and makes that perfect storm that simply is too strong for us.

Thats why I see Brexit as a big chance for your country - if only you Brits would start to interpret it serious in all drastic consequence. Its your chance to win distance to the coastline of the EU and to ride out the upformign Tsunami on the high sea, in deep water. Much better to face it there than close to the EU-coast. A metaphor, but you may understand what I mean. Cut ties to the continent. It may save you in the future of this century. Germany (and others) - is lost, i have already written it off, would not bet a penny on its longtime perspectives. The EU simply in no way is fit for the challenges of the big world game. Its Asia/China and the US and to a certain degree Russia dominating that game.

[Jimbuna]

I'm expecting the arrival of my first grandchild in a week or so and I sincerely hope much of the above does not come to fruition, for her sake :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Meanwhile...

Prime Minister Theresa May could set a date for her resignation in the coming days, the chairman of the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee has said.

The PM said she will step down when her Brexit deal is ratified by Parliament - but some MPs want a fixed date.

Sir Graham Brady said he expects a "clear understanding" of that timetable once she has met the committee, which she will do on Wednesday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48235917

[Jimbuna]

Royal Mail is investigating fake stamps featuring Diane Abbott's face which are apparently making their way through the postal network.

An anonymous man claiming to be a London postman shared images of the red stamps - one of which was franked - with several news outlets.

https://news.sky.com/story/royal-mail-investigates-fake-diane-abbott-stamps-11716853

:haha::har:

[STEED]

Brexit: Gavin Williamson attacks Theresa May's talks with Labour

Mrs May is hoping to reach a cross-party consensus on her withdrawal agreement after failing to get it through Parliament three times.

But Mr Williamson - sacked over the Huawei leak - told the Mail on Sunday the talks were "destined to fail".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48241606



Of course they will, Labour has no interest in Brexit they want a general election so why should they go along with May.

[STEED]

Tony Blair on SKY has urged Ex-Labour supporters who have gone off labour to vote for one of the other remain parties in the EU elections. I don't see Jim doing that any time soon.

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: Gavin Williamson attacks Theresa May's talks with Labour

Mrs May is hoping to reach a cross-party consensus on her withdrawal agreement after failing to get it through Parliament three times.

But Mr Williamson - sacked over the Huawei leak - told the Mail on Sunday the talks were "destined to fail".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48241606

Now now Judas, try not to be so bitter young man.

[Jimbuna]

Theresa May is being mocked for this video of her playing football.

Theresa May has decided to commemorate a "historic week" for English football by tweeting a video of herself kicking a ball around with some children in her local constituency.

She wanted to commemorate the fact that Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur successfully reached the Champions League final and Arsenal and Chelsea will play each other in the Europa League final.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/theresa-may-is-being-mocked-for-this-video-of-her-playing-football/ar-AABfY0Z?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

Such a shame when you are mocked and ridiculed for celebrating what is a record breaking achievement.

Far rather the above than one of Steptoe on one of his bindipping exercises.

[HunterICX]

Such a shame when you are mocked and ridiculed for celebrating what is a record breaking achievement.



yeah yeah rub it in -
https://i.imgur.com/8oCEOnp.gif


:03:

[Jimbuna]

^ :)

[STEED]

Brian Walden: Broadcaster and former Labour MP dies aged 86

The broadcaster was known for his tough political interviews, including with Margaret Thatcher in 1989 which helped speed up the then-prime minister's downfall.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48245853






The last great political interviewer who asked the real hard hitting no nonsense questions, a giant of his time. They don't make them like him anymore which is a pity we need more Waldens.

[Skybird]

Brexit Party by Farrange stronger than Tories and Labour together, currently. I think on the continent they fundamentally underestimate how deeply the Britons are fed up with the EU and rate sovereignty and freedom over vasallship and 50 silver coins. I mean nobody should take the Britons as so stupid that they all do not know that Farrange nonsensed them the first time. If they still support his new party now this strongly, with this clown at its helm, then this really tells something.

Bet that self-declared flagship politicians of supreme EU civilization nevertheless will refuse to understand the message? :haha: The EU light must shine so bright that it convinces everybody. It must shine brightest. It just must. It... must... :har:

[Skybird]

Ich pack mich weg! :har:


https://i.postimg.cc/jdg7zT99/Unbenannt.png (https://postimages.org/)
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/europawahl-und-brexit-wie-nigel-farage-den-wahlkampf-kapert-a-1267016.html


"Conservatives" 11% :har:

[Catfish]

May you live in interesting times.. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Indeed, she does.

[Catfish]

^ well played :D

[Jimbuna]

The last great political interviewer who asked the real hard hitting no nonsense questions, a giant of his time. They don't make them like him anymore which is a pity we need more Waldens.

RIP Brian

[Jimbuna]

Brexit Party by Farrange stronger than Tories and Labour together, currently. I think on the continent they fundamentally underestimate how deeply the Britons are fed up with the EU and rate sovereignty and freedom over vasallship and 50 silver coins. I mean nobody should take the Britons as so stupid that they all do not know that Farrange nonsensed them the first time. If they still support his new party now this strongly, with this clown at its helm, then this really tells something.

Bet that self-declared flagship politicians of supreme EU civilization nevertheless will refuse to understand the message? :haha: The EU light must shine so bright that it convinces everybody. It must shine brightest. It just must. It... must... :har:

Can't say how accurate feeling is at the moment with any degree even approaching certainty but those I know who are still polityically active are starting to get nervous.

EVERYTHING will depend on how big a turnout the two main parties will be able to muster of their loyal followers.

One thing for sure though, there are a great many disgruntled amongst them who will probably view this forthcoming election as being their last hurrah.

[STEED]

The polls can not be trusted, remember the last general election the polls said May was going to floor it with a big majority. And what happen? Hung Parliament. I rest my case.

[STEED]

Jeremy Kyle: MP calls for ITV show to be axed for good



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48265740



Dam right, what is this vile disgrace on TV for? I can't stand Kyle and his repugnant cheap nasty vile crude show, get this crap off now. This crap should never ever been aired in the first place.

[Jimbuna]

Change UK leader MP Heidi Allen has challenged Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage to a live TV debate ahead of the European elections.

In her party's election broadcast, Ms Allen said she thinks a debate is "overdue" as there is "so much at stake" in the vote on 23 May.

She said the leaders needed to "share with the British people our vision for the future".

But Mr Farage has declined, saying: "Who is she?"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48265260

Now that I would like to see happen but Nigel is obviously acutely aware of his limitations where political debates are concerned.

[STEED]

She should be more concerned in loosing her seat at the next general election. BP is here to stay unlike CUK that will be history in 2020. Nigel took Andrew marr apart last weekend, that twonk trying it on and got no where.

[Jimbuna]

Nigel is extremely limited on topc detail and only has the ability to opine on Brexit related matter.

Check him out on last Thursdays Question Time programme.

[BossMark]

Dam right, what is this vile disgrace on TV for? I can't stand Kyle and his repugnant cheap nasty vile crude show, get this crap off now. This crap should never ever been aired in the first place.
I couldnt agree more it is in the top three worst TV programmes ever to be put on our tellies along with big brother and the x factor...

[STEED]

Well well well, a new party and their leaflet is a lie...

QUOTE
Change UK MEP's will:
END QUOTE

So they think they can do this and that and the EU will approve it. My word they have fallen into a pit of deceit so quick. :haha:

[STEED]

Theresa May is giving MPs another chance to vote on Brexit in early June - whether or not the government and Labour have reached a deal by then.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827
I would laugh but this has gone way passed that.




In other news non political..


Broadband, pay-TV, mobile phone and landline customers must be told when their contracts are about to end and be informed of their providers' best alternative deals, under new rules.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48268427
About bloody time, times I have been caught out paying more before picking up on the issue. Not only that my last one was for a year and half and just after a year they stung me because the contract was up! What about the remaining six months?


OK back to normal...

[Jimbuna]

I couldnt agree more it is in the top three worst TV programmes ever to be put on our tellies along with big brother and the x factor...

The decision has been taken to axe the show for good.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48279613

[Jimbuna]

British troops and veterans will be given stronger legal protections against prosecution, Defence Secretary Penny Mordaunt will announce.

The new law would protect them from investigation over actions on the battlefield abroad after 10 years, except in "exceptional circumstances".

Ms Mordaunt said it would prevent "repeated or unfair investigations".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48276804

Not before time either, it's just a pity it has a ten year clause in it and won't be retrospective.

[BossMark]

The decision has been taken to axe the show for good.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48279613
Good :yep:

[Jimbuna]

They have said they are looking forward to working on other projects in the future with Jeremy Kyle so they are certainly not attributing any blame on him for the unfortunate circumstances that occurred.

[Catfish]

:
British troops and veterans will be given stronger legal protections against prosecution, Defence Secretary Penny Mordaunt will announce.

The new law would protect them from investigation over actions on the battlefield abroad after 10 years, except in "exceptional circumstances".

Ms Mordaunt said it would prevent "repeated or unfair investigations".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48276804
Not before time either, it's just a pity it has a ten year clause in it and won't be retrospective.
Have there been so much wrong accusations that this seems to have a priority?

"She is also expected to repeat the government's commitment to take up a right to suspend parts of the European Convention on Human Rights before the UK embarks on military operations.
The Ministry of Defence said the suspension, known as "derogation", would protect British troops from the kind of "persistent" legal claims that followed operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This sounds as if british soldiers are or will be above the law? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

This sounds as if british soldiers are or will be above the law?

No, not at all, ten years is a fair enough length of time and in 'exceptional circumstances', such as where compelling new evidence had emerged, the protections could be set aside.

[STEED]

Woohoo the Tory backbenches plan to get rid of May within a month according to a SKY News report. I say...:O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O:



What a load of rubbish, they tried it by vote they tried it by how bad they were in the polls and election results and still May remains in charge. What a bunch of ding dongs they are. :doh:

[Jimbuna]

She will not be leaving before a June attempt to get her deal through but this is old news really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48290760

[BossMark]

She will not be leaving before a June attempt to get her deal through but this is old news really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48290760
The most frighting thing...whoever takes her place :dead:

[Jimbuna]

The most frighting thing...whoever takes her place :dead:

Very true but either which way both major parties are now split, possibly irreversibly.

[Catfish]

Boris Johnson confirms bid for Tory leadership
"Of course I'm going to go for it"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48299424

I'd say we have no better shows at the local zoo :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson confirms bid for Tory leadership
"Of course I'm going to go for it"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48299424

I'd say we have no better shows at the local zoo :yep:

I'd have to agree :yep:

Bring on the EU elections and hopefully a clearer picture will emerge (ever the optimist).

[Jimbuna]

Jeremy Corbyn says talks with the government to find a compromise over Brexit "have gone as far as they can".

In a letter to the PM, the Labour leader said the six weeks of cross-party discussions could not carry on due to "the increasing weakness and instability" of the government.

Downing Street has yet to respond.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

I doubt anyone will be surprised at this outcome.

[Catfish]

^ ^ you think the EU elections will be any more reasonable or 'better' :hmmm:

Hope dies last .. i am certainly not content with the EU as it is but apart from only trading treaties or such – regarding freedom of movement, studies, exchange programs for students and workers.. it would be a real fallback without it, and trade pacts alone will never make up for this.

I think the fear(mongering) of an EU superstate is overblown, the nations are much too different even if they agree in some points.

[Jimbuna]

^ ^ you think the EU elections will be any more reasonable or 'better' :hmmm:

Hope dies last .. i am certainly not content with the EU as it is but apart from only trading treaties or such – regarding freedom of movement, studies, exchange programs for students and workers.. it would be a real fallback without it, and trade pacts alone will never make up for this.

I think the fear(mongering) of an EU superstate is overblown, the nations are much too different even if they agree in some points.

My main concern with the EU is it's interference in the sovereignty and law making decisions of individual states. Freedom of movement is of lesser concern but I must admit I'd prefer a kind of point/skills process as has been successfully used in the likes of Canada and Australia.

The biggest plus imho is the free movement of trade and goods.

[STEED]

So its official, the brexit talks have failed well you had to be living on another planet not too seen that one. And now the blame game starts...BORING!



As for Boris the political thinking on that is he may steady the party but he would loose the general election.



There is only one person fit to take over and that person is Penny Mordaunt. Everyone else our burnout, flaky, who are you or a buffoon.

[Catfish]

My main concern with the EU is it's interference in the sovereignty and law making decisions of individual states.

"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999
Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%."

So i take it those 2 percent must be very important. Anyone else knows what this was about?

Freedom of movement is of lesser concern but I must admit I'd prefer a kind of point/skills process as has been successfully used in the likes of Canada and Australia.
The biggest plus imho is the free movement of trade and goods.

I have to accept that although i cannot see this being true for all younger people of the UK :hmmm:

[Nordmann]

I have to accept that although i cannot see this being true for all younger people of the UK :hmmm:

The EU certainly benefits certain people (the rich get richer as it were), but does it benefit everyone? No, I don't think so, at least not if you're an ordinary working person in the UK. If you're running a business reliant on cheap EU labour, then yes, you're probably very keen to keep that relationship. But the rest of us? What does it offer us?

Free movement works very well for EU member states, and obviously for UK businesses, but what about people born in the UK? What do they get out of it, except increased competition for jobs?

That's the real problem with the whole Brexit debate, we are making long term decisions on the needs and wants of the few, rather than the whole. What best serves the ordinary citizen, not the rich business owner or politician, that's the question we should really be asking.

[Catfish]

As i said the UK agreed to 98 percent of EU enablements for international trade and negotiation. You did not agree to the EUrO and the europan health care service. But it was never about "sovereignty". No the Eu has nothing to do with ... forget that im done.

Facts don't matter anymore. It's all about emotions and perception. Rupert Murdoch media twisting the truth in an unbelievable way, and what really hurts is to see how much believe that. It would be laughable if not so many people obviously believe it. Well the young don't, but they will have to live through what some old rich twats planned for them.
Do you believe your own government will fund projects in farming, fisheries and help for the UK in any comparable way the EU does now? Anyone remember Thatcher with the planned "Decline of Liverpool"? So a good brit never leaves England, well i see.

It is the rich how you call them who want brexit, and take away rights from workers to hold up the old class system that is the real english problem still exporting it to Scotland and Ireland. If you have not noticed that by now no one can help you.
And i don't bother anymore after 3 years seeing what is going on in your government. It is your funeral and if you so want why don't you get out already.

https://i.imgur.com/cgX2bCDl.jpg

Good luck!


Still a point for point debunkment of ths sh!t the worldwide despised yellow press in the UK dares to publish, along with types like Rees-Mogg, Farage and Johnson. Murdoch and Aaron Banks should be shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7X7DboLLqQ

[Jimbuna]

^ Always happy to hear both sides of the issue :yep:

[Skybird]

Stop mistaking people/populations with governments, Catfish.


And be aware of that it is not about how many laws were comign from Brussel, but to what degree they have reach and influence on subordnnate legislation. Certain feilds of plltics are dominated to a degree by Brussels initiaves and demands that doe snto get reflect by the mere number of rules and laws it needed to accheive this domiance. Agriclture, traffic, migration, ecology are such fields of politics where few rules have unfolded tremendous impact and reach. They now try to enforce Brussels dominance in social politics as well, of course at the cost of net payers in the Euro zone once again.


A structural easing of conditions in Europe has not been achieved by these ways. Quite the opposite: there is more anger, conflict, greed and more confict ebtween European people today, than ever before in the past 40 years. The harder your grip around that fistful of sand, the more grains will melt away between your fingers.



This twelce year old article on former Germna president Roman Herzogs claim that 80% of German laws come fro Brussel criticises that claim - but nevertheless still has a more well-runded judgement of the implicit background of it all. By tendency, Herzog was right, for the reason i gavce above, and thats why I repeat it occasionally, to keep a long lament short.



https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/wie-viele-gesetze-kommen-aus-bruessel-1461910.html


The EU ursurps mor e and more policy-making power in political areas and private businesses that should be not of any interest for the EU's centralist nose at all. It clearly is on the grand mission to establish an unlimited continental regime. Only opportunistically blind people and people agreeing with that course can claim not to see that.

[Catfish]

Private businesses and privatization is exactly who likes brexit. They want to freely exploit people, without being hindered by laws or human rights.
B.t.w. Roman Herzog is a complete idiot, and a retard.

"The EU ursurps mor e and more policy-making power in political areas and private businesses that should be not of any interest for the EU's centralist nose at all. It clearly is on the grand mission to establish an unlimited continental regime."

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Yes, and i wish them good luck. Otherwise you can work in the coal mines again, 6 days a week without holiday, until you die with 40. Real enhancement, for the likes of Olaf Henkel or Rees-Mogg.

But you know what: England and the UK supported the rules being proposed in the EU, because those proposals do not fall from the sky. They are being laid out and formulated in the nation's back rooms, and then brought to light in international meetings, and the EU. And when one nation does not like to abandon torture or selling weapons to the middle East before complaining about fugitives, or introduce basic workers rights it will opt out in this respect. You really like that do you?

Jolly good luck. You will need it, and it will be not be the rich ones who will have to afford higher food prices, losing a lot of wealth and the occasional holidays.

[STEED]

Question time...


When do you think British politics went wrong?


It seems too me the 1990's witnesses the foundations being laid and 2000's the rotten wall was built and from there it got bigger and stronger. We the voters have been badly treated by politicians that choose not to listen to us. They have forgotten they work for us, in fact I would go as far say they just don't give a dam.



The last damning council results did noting and I bet the EU elections will do nothing. Yes the Tories and Labour will get a justified hammering this Thursday but they will go on their merry way.

[Skybird]

B.t.w. Roman Herzog is a complete idiot, and a retard.


Okay. Think you are just a waste of time.

[Skybird]

Question time...


When do you think British politics went wrong?


It seems too me the 1990's witnesses the foundations being laid and 2000's the rotten wall was built and from there it got bigger and stronger. We the voters have been badly treated by politicians that choose not to listen to us. They have forgotten they work for us, in fact I would go as far say they just don't give a dam.



The last damning council results did noting and I bet the EU elections will do nothing. Yes the Tories and Labour will get a justified hammering this Thursday but they will go on their merry way.


Not just one key event or era. The whole system cannot avoid to become what it has become. Its in its genes, it cannot be avoided. Push back time by some decades and start new form there on - it would all shift towards the very same attractors. Details may vary, the general trend and tendency, the overall inner dynamic remain unchanged. Frogs squawk, fire and black powder explodes, rivers flow from the well to the sea and modern democracy lead to corrupting their core ideals, leads to corruption, socialism, totalitarianism and the opposite of what democracy once was called up for. It carries the gernm of its fall already in its very beginning. You have undiscmrinatory voting rights for the plebs - you automatically appeal to certain motives of the masses and not to others, you attract certain harcter traits to crave for the power and not others, you open the door fro certain forms of abuse of the communal resslources to feed the ambitions of the few. It cannot be avoided. The system itself is the problem. The good reputation of "democracy" - empirically is not justified.



It may sound like a trendy cliche from the 80s when sayin that "its about the system", but - its about the system. Just differently then my age group fantasized when using that slogan cocky way while we where young and immature in the 80s.

[BossMark]

Brexit: Theresa May plans 'bold offer' to get support for deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48323522


Shes clutching at staws, i'll be shocked if she gets it through parliment, as for those who want her job...........:doh:

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: Theresa May plans 'bold offer' to get support for deal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48323522


Shes clutching at staws, i'll be shocked if she gets it through parliment, as for those who want her job...........:doh:

Should be interesting to see exactly what will be new but I doubt any form of her previous plan will gain sufficient support.

[MGR1]

I have to accept that although i cannot see this being true for all younger people of the UK :hmmm:

The answer will vary depending on where in the UK you ask it.

To start with immigration all the data so far indicates that the majority of the UK population prefers some sort of control of it, regardless of whether it's EU or non-EU. In large part for the reasons that Nordmann wrote. This is something where the UK's internecine class warfare plays a not insubstantial role. From a business perspective why employ "surly, strike prone, lazy" UK workers when their non-British conterparts will just get on with the job as the conditions are still better than back home? So on that issue, at least, internal UK social conditions are an influence.

However the extent to which that applies again will vary across the UK - it's more of an issue in an already overcrowded England than in Scotland because the former is more succesfull economically than the latter and has a greater attraction for prospective immigrants looking for employment. For Scotland (more explicitely the SNP) it's a matter of attracting workers to make up for a population level which has been largely stagnant (at approx 5 million) over the last century or so which is now exacerbated by an ageing population which needs to be supported financially.

As an aside, politicians on both sides of the Scottish Independence divide don't seem to be making any effort to find out why Scotland has had such a historical emigration problem. Perhaps trying to find out exactly why people leave Scotland in the first place rather than stay would be a start in improving it's economic performance amongst others issues.:hmmm:

The EU certainly benefits certain people (the rich get richer as it were), but does it benefit everyone? No, I don't think so, at least not if you're an ordinary working person in the UK. If you're running a business reliant on cheap EU labour, then yes, you're probably very keen to keep that relationship. But the rest of us? What does it offer us?

Free movement works very well for EU member states, and obviously for UK businesses, but what about people born in the UK? What do they get out of it, except increased competition for jobs?

That's the real problem with the whole Brexit debate, we are making long term decisions on the needs and wants of the few, rather than the whole. What best serves the ordinary citizen, not the rich business owner or politician, that's the question we should really be asking.

Very good point but this is where I think there is a distinct difference between England and Scotland. Financially I would posit the Scotland has benefitted a great deal more from the UK's EU membership than England has. This is largely due to the EU helping to fund projects in Scotland that the UK Treasury wouldn't as they were regarded as being non-financially viable when looked at from a whole UK perspective. Why pay for business and infrastructure development in the Highlands and Western Isles when the same type of projects implemented in heavily populated areas of England are much more likely to generate a substantial amount of revenue for the Treasury?

Note that this applies specifically to capital investment, i.e. infrastructure etc.

As for of the different spend per head levels between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It would be nice if they were the same across all the regions of the UK but I have a feeling that changing to a spending system based on need rather than an arcane calculation would still result in regional differences. I think under such a system the latter three regions would still have a higher average per head spend than England.


Mike.

[STEED]

Brexit: Theresa May plans 'bold offer' to get support for deal


Pictures of her in kitten heals? :o

[Catfish]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish
" [...] Roman Herzog is a complete idiot, and a retard." *
Okay. Think you are just a waste of time.
*I take this back. This was unnecesary and dumb to write by me, and it does not reflect reality. I did not like R. Herzog back then with his "Durch Deutschland muss ein Ruck gehen", but he did have his merits. Sorry.

[Skybird]

:salute:
Personally I did not like him either, after all he agreed to be a politician. But as an outspoken expert for the EU treaties and dictate of Lisbon, his criticism of these weighed heavier than the occasional chatter by ordinary Joes and fanboys. Much of what he criticised in deformations of EU development , shared by for example Giscard d'Estaing, and some others.



For the non-Germans: Herzog was German state president and before that president of the Bundesverfassungsgericht at Karlsruhe.

[STEED]

So anyone voting this Thursday? I have not made my mind up, yes voting Brexit will stick it to the Con/Lab and the media will rub it in but it will not change a thing and they just don't give a toss how bad the hit will be.

[BossMark]

So anyone voting this Thursday? I have not made my mind up, yes voting Brexit will stick it to the Con/Lab and the media will rub it in but it will not change a thing and they just don't give a toss how bad the hit will be.
Not sure myself what do either, i know cant vote for Farage, as i dont really like him...and i am not a protest voter.

[Jimbuna]

Not sure myself what do either, i know cant vote for Farage, as i dont really like him...and i am not a protest voter.

You'll be voting for Steptoe then?

[Jimbuna]

MPs who want to deliver the referendum result should vote for the government's Brexit bill and worry about the detail afterwards, a senior minister has said.

A vote on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill - the legislation that will implement Brexit - is expected early next month.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said MPs should back it "no matter the details" they want in a future relationship.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48334109

Does he seriously believe the electorate have any trust left in politicians? :haha:

[Gerald]

Brexiteer Farage splattered in latest UK milkshake attack.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Brexiteer-Farage-splattered-in-latest-UK-13858909.php

[MGR1]

So anyone voting this Thursday? I have not made my mind up, yes voting Brexit will stick it to the Con/Lab and the media will rub it in but it will not change a thing and they just don't give a toss how bad the hit will be.


I may don a nose peg and vote SNP. I have no confidence in the individual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosheena_Mobarik) the Scottish Tories have placed first in their candidate list. Too much focus on her ancestry and not enough on representing Scotland. Nor will I vote for Farage.

Brexiteer Farage splattered in latest UK milkshake attack.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Brexiteer-Farage-splattered-in-latest-UK-13858909.php


And in Newcastle, no less.:hmmm:


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

I may don a nose peg and vote SNP. I have no confidence in the individual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosheena_Mobarik) the Scottish Tories have placed first in their candidate list. Too much focus on her ancestry and not enough on representing Scotland. Nor will I vote for Farage.




And in Newcastle, no less.:hmmm:


Mike.

Aye :nope:

[STEED]

Nigel should sack his bodyguards for not doing their job right. Any one throwing something is always a morron.

[STEED]

I hear tarzan is voting for the Libs, hang on he's a Tory MP. :doh:

Just as I post this I hear on the radio he has the whip withdrawn from him.

[BossMark]

I hear tarzan is voting for the Libs, hang on he's a Tory MP. :doh:

Just as I post this I hear on the radio he has the whip withdrawn from him.
Yep
Lord Heseltine loses Tory whip after endorsing the Lib Dems

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

[Jimbuna]

Nigel should sack his bodyguards for not doing their job right. Any one throwing something is always a morron.

Not the firdt time in recent weeks a milk shake has been the weapon of choice.

This was aired on Sky News first and the culprit just happens to be an employee of theirs so I should imagine this months payslip will be accompanied by his P45.

[Jimbuna]

Yep
Lord Heseltine loses Tory whip after endorsing the Lib Dems

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

The 86-year old, who served in the governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major and was also an adviser to David Cameron, said he was following his conscience and the Conservative Party remained his "natural home".

Says it all really.

[STEED]

I hear MayBot had a good cabinet meeting and some reports say she could this one though Parliament. I will judge that tomorrow on the news for myself, the key thing will the DUP go for it? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

No support if Backstop remains and it probably will.

[MGR1]

Most recent polling snapshot of Scottish voting intentions for Thursday, based on the Scotland sub-sample from the latest YouGov poll:

Tweet by John Rentoul (https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1130044666479562752)

Poll Data (https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/td77pezs07/Results_190516_EP_VI_w.pdf)

Reactions:

Poll puts Brexit Party into second place in Scotland as pro Scottish independence parties gain (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17650930.poll-puts-brexit-party-into-second-place-in-scotland-as-pro-scottish-independence-parties-gain/)

Prof John Curtice: SNP heading for 'all-time record' in EU elections (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17639781.prof-john-curtice-snp-heading-for-all-time-record-in-eu-elections/?ref=nuo)

SNP could see all-time record result in EU election – Professor John Curtice (https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/snp-could-see-all-time-record-result-in-eu-election-professor-john-curtice-1-4926445)

The latter two are from The Herald Scotland (pro-Scottish Independence) and The Scotsman (anti-Scottish Independence) respectively which give an interesting insight into how the two sides of the current constitutional conflict north of the border spin the same story.

I call the results for Scotland's six MEP seats as follows:

SNP: 3

Brexit Party: 2

Last seat could go either Green, Tory or Labour - too close to call.

Latest data from PanelBase giving snapshot of current Scottish Westminster voting intentions:

Westminster Voting Intention (Scotland) (https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1130096533490274304?s=21)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D67rRBYW4AAnZJ-.png:large

Naturally caveats apply.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Having read the above I looked up the poll predictions for England and wished I hadn't.

The predictions are all over the place depending on which side each publishing newspaper supports.

So no surprises there.

[Skybird]

I'm lost, I do not understand the reasoning behind this:



MPs will get a vote on whether to hold another referendum if they back the EU Withdrawal Agreement Bill, she said.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48357017


So if she would get her deal through, which is so supersoft a Brexit then that the meaning of Brexit cannot be recognised in any of it anymore, and if therefore she would have gotten what she wanted all the time - her deal rendering Brexit meaningless being accepted and thus rendering Brexit meaningless - she then wants to give parliament a vote on deciding wether there will be another referendum that then should, so i suppose, overrule the first one?


Is there something I do miss? It makes less sense to me than just "none". In a time when it is claimed that there could be "negative interests" that still be interests by definition, is there now also something like "negative sense"?

[MGR1]

Having read the above I looked up the poll predictions for England and wished I hadn't.

The predictions are all over the place depending on which side each publishing newspaper supports.

So no surprises there.


None at all.


Since Scotland has a considerably lower population than England it's probably easier for the pollsters to make predictions about the results.


Mike.

[Jimbuna]

I'm lost, I do not understand the reasoning behind this:




https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48357017


So if she would get her deal through, which is so supersoft a Brexit then that the meaning of Brexit cannot be recognised in any of it anymore, and if therefore she would have gotten what she wanted all the time - her deal rendering Brexit meaningless being accepted and thus rendering Brexit meaningless - she then wants to give parliament a vote on deciding wether there will be another referendum that then should, so i suppose, overrule the first one?


Is there something I do miss? It makes less sense to me than just "none". In a time when it is claimed that there could be "negative interests" that still be interests by definition, is there now also something like "negative sense"?

This is her way of trying to appease those MP's who currently won't vote for her Bill and represent constituencies who voted to leave.

If she gets Parliament to accept her Bill she has achieved what she originally set out to do but what happens after that is of absolutely no concern to her.

She is a Prime Minister in name only right now.

[Catfish]

Yep
Lord Heseltine loses Tory whip after endorsing the Lib Dems

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

"The former deputy prime minister said he would not back the Tories because of the party's pro-Brexit stance."

Well it seems that there is not one party being against brexit despite the referendum having been a fraud. So the "results" are not so astonishing.

[JU_88]

"The former deputy prime minister said he would not back the Tories because of the party's pro-Brexit stance."

Well it seems that there is not one party being against brexit despite the referendum having been a fraud. So the "results" are not so astonishing.


The Libdems are overwhelmingly against Brexit, Labour: majority against and Cons: about 50/50ish
What fraud?

[STEED]

Been listening to the radio with comments from MP's to political experts and they are saying MayDay will suffer a bigger defeat than last time. Some MP's backed her last time are not going to this time, DUP look like saying no to it and Labour as well.

May's last days in power are coming up and once defeated the 1922 committee will demand she must go.

[BossMark]

In an attempt to win over Labour MPs, she announced the following concessions:


A guarantee of a Commons vote on whether to hold another referendum on the government's Brexit deal
A vote on different customs options, including a government proposal for a temporary customs union for goods - what Mrs May called a "customs compromise"
A legal obligation for the UK to "seek to conclude alternative arrangements" to replace the Northern Ireland backstop by the end of 2020
If the backstop does come into force, the bill would guarantee Northern Ireland remains aligned with the rest of the UK and remains in same customs territory
Legislation to ensure workers rights are "every bit as good, if not better" after Brexit - and guarantees of no dilution in environmental standards
A legal duty to seek changes to the political declaration on future relations with the EU

Well her own MPs wont vote with for Brexit (but we knew that anyway) the maybot is now trying to bribe Labour MPs to vote with her.

Dead women walking Skybet is giving her odds of 1/50 the she'll be gone by the end of year, should be by the end of June...

[Skybird]

May can offer whatever she wants, can offer all the opposition wants and ever wanted - she would be voted down. Because in general everybody is done with her, and Labour by now brews a completely different soup: getting new elections while blaming Tories for it. May seems to not see that she is no longer part of it - whatever "it" may be. That may hurt her ego, but nobody cares. She lost the right time to leave with at least a last remaining, fading trace of dignity. By now she is just a walking joke.

[Jimbuna]

My main concern atm is that having made a pigs ear out of the whole sorry situation this could well eventually culminate into a general election resulting in something far more catastrophic than Brexit, namely a victory for Steptoe and the loony left.

She'll lose this fourth attempt then either walk or the 1922 folk will invoke a party rule change for an imediate leadership challenge.

It could all be too late by then, Heaven help us.

[STEED]

OH SHUT UP WOMAN!

Old Jezzer is laying in to MayPanic and she keeps banging on about the last Labour government, well over seven years ago! She has failed she had no counter statement she must go now.

PMQ's is a joke.

[Jimbuna]

PMQ's LIVE

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-48339091

[Mr Quatro]

Rumor has it that PM May will step down in just a few more days ...

Hard to link on my hand held device, but is this good?

How can a new PM bring a better deal to the table?

[Catfish]

^ A new PM cannot. Which is why Farage and his "brexit party" (lmao) will win. He (alone, no democracy here) will get out without a deal. Since there are no plans or visions for beyond he will then fail, but it will be too late.

Maybe the UK manages to tear down the EU with its 72 ministers and Farage trying to obliterate all just for the fun of it, trying to divide while bringing hate, xenophobia and nationalism to the EU parliament. Romania, Turkey, Hungary and Poland can then be happy, to a degree. But not for long.

The EU may have flaws, but what we see here is absolutely ridiculous.


"Just as Marxists insist true communism has never been tried, so Brexiteers declare that their simple plan has been wrecked by weaklings, quislings and fools. Brexit was designed by its most passionate supporters to fail: its purpose was to be betrayed, to enable a new movement to rise up, animated by fury and fear. Such a movement has now been born. It is already tearing the Conservative party to pieces. That, sad to say, is only the beginning of its plan."

[Skybird]

To think of what chance there would have been, with more spirit and determination and less care for EU blackmailing - and what has come of it instead, due to servility, cowardice and indifference for too long.



At least we get well entertained.


I fear for the ECB and EU presidencies having names seating that still refuse to learn the lesson and will push the EU even further towards centralism and super state.



And I fear Merkel going out - but not going really for sure. Her indications that she wants to "work for climate" after her term sounds like a menacing threat to me.

[STEED]

If Boris wins the leadership he will let labour in at the next general election because he will arse up as PM.

BREAKING NEWS IF MAY WILL NOT STATE BY FRIDAY THE DAY OF HER DEPARTURE THERE WILL BE ANOTHER VOTE ON HER LEADERSHIP.

[Jimbuna]

Rumor has it that PM May will step down in just a few more days ...

Hard to link on my hand held device, but is this good?

How can a new PM bring a better deal to the table?

She should be gone in a day or two yes but if not, almost definitely after the results of the EU elections are announced.

Her epitaph will make worse reading than that of David Cameron and that is quite some achievement imho. One of abject failure and betrayal of the people of the UK.

The next PM will inherit the same problems and I fear the only way forward now will be to hold a general election and possibly a revocation of Article 50.

[Catfish]

You all speak a good lot about betrayal (echoing Farage), but betrayal has come from another side, and the result is intended.
Beware the great betrayal myth (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/29/brexit-betrayal-myth-hardcore-brexiters)

again:

"Brexiteers declare that their simple plan has been wrecked by weaklings, quislings and fools. Brexit was designed by its most passionate supporters to fail:
its purpose was to be betrayed, to enable a new movement to rise up, animated by fury and fear.
Such a movement has now been born. It is already tearing the Conservative party to pieces. That, sad to say, is only the beginning of its plan."

Good article, because just how i see it :03::
Farage has polluted our democracy. Vote against him. (https://infacts.org/farage-has-polluted-our-democracy-vote-against-him/)

[Jimbuna]

^ A new PM cannot. Which is why Farage and his "brexit party" (lmao) will win. He (alone, no democracy here) will get out without a deal. Since there are no plans or visions for beyond he will then fail, but it will be too late.

Maybe the UK manages to tear down the EU with its 72 ministers and Farage trying to obliterate all just for the fun of it, trying to divide while bringing hate, xenophobia and nationalism to the EU parliament. Romania, Turkey, Hungary and Poland can then be happy, to a degree. But not for long.

The EU may have flaws, but what we see here is absolutely ridiculous.


"Just as Marxists insist true communism has never been tried, so Brexiteers declare that their simple plan has been wrecked by weaklings, quislings and fools. Brexit was designed by its most passionate supporters to fail: its purpose was to be betrayed, to enable a new movement to rise up, animated by fury and fear. Such a movement has now been born. It is already tearing the Conservative party to pieces. That, sad to say, is only the beginning of its plan."

Pretty much agree :yep:

[STEED]

MORE BREAKING NEWS THERE WILL BE NO FOURTH VOTE ON THE WITHDRAW BILL...SKY NEWS.

[Jimbuna]

BREAKING NEWS IF MAY WILL NOT STATE BY FRIDAY THE DAY OF HER DEPARTURE THERE WILL BE ANOTHER VOTE ON HER LEADERSHIP.

Not quite accurate.

On Wednesday, members of the Conservatives' backbench 1922 Committee held a secret ballot on whether to change party rules, to allow the prime minister to face a vote of no confidence immediately.

The results, in sealed envelopes, will be opened if Mrs May does not agree to stand down by 10 June.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48374841

[STEED]

It was reported by Sky news jim.

[Jimbuna]

I've more faith in the BBC and my political contact.

[Jimbuna]

Just back from voting with the wife, should sleep a little sounder tonight :smug:

[Jimbuna]

Theresa May shelves plans to publish Brexit Withdrawal bill following Cabinet mutiny.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/theresa-may-shelves-plans-to-publish-brexit-withdrawal-bill-following-cabinet-mutiny/ar-AABNimO?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

This situation just gets more and more farcical with each passing hour.

[MGR1]

It appears the main driving force behind Scottish Secretary of State Mundell's opposition to May's deal is the possibility of a second EU referendum. He and a few of his (unnamed) colleagues in the Cabinet are opposed due to the possibility of making an opening for the SNP to demand a second Indyref.

Even if a second referendum was to come to pass the Scottish branch of the Tory party would be bitterly opposed to it for that reason.:hmmm:

Anyway, we aren't going to find out who Scotland's new MEP's are until Monday at the earliest. Not because of Italy having it's vote on Sunday but because the local authorities in the Western Isles won't do anything on the Sabbath so no ballot counting will take place until Monday.....:doh:

Mike.

[STEED]

I voted early to get it over with before I changed my mind. No more to say on this one until all the results are in Monday.



Just to add a friend of mine agreed if Boris wins Labour wins the GE because Boris will make a pigs ear of it.

[BossMark]

Ministers expect Theresa May to reveal No 10 departure date on Friday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48385696


Is this the end for maybot, or will she try and hold on she is more stubbern than a whole field of mules...

[Catfish]

^ well if England is not able to present another PM than Boris or Farage it is quite clear what will happen.
Imho this is not in the best interest of the people to say at least, but at least people will then see who is responsible for the mess and how competent they are.

[Jimbuna]

May will resign on Friday 7th June.

I doubt she will be missed by many if any.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395905

[Skybird]

June 7th.


Why. Not. Now. Should at least her withdrawel go according to her glorious plans?


Well, who cares.


P.S. Ooops, Jim beat me by a second. I will never delay a post again for just correcting a typo. From now on, you guys have to live with them.

[Jimbuna]

If your not fast, your last :03:

Besides, the announcement was about ten minutes earlier coming up on my phone whilst I was in the shower :)

[STEED]

Next up Boris wins

Boris arses up

Jeremy wins the General election

BossMarks gets drunk

Jim leaves the country

STEED keeps on moaning

And Sky & Cat settle their EU differences with a duel with pistols

[Jimbuna]

Actually, the wife and I were tentatively considering a move abroad now that the kids are up and gone a few years back before the whole Brexit farce began.

If it is ever settled I'm wondering if those discussions will come up again, the wife reckons not.