US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Onkel Neal]

Continue the discussion here!

[Aktungbby]

Continue the discussion here!
NO! That's enough about Trumpo!! No more Trump talk ¡ RULE# 1 ! of new thread!:Kaleun_Salute::arrgh!:

[Mr Quatro]

This is great a brand new thread :up:

I want to be first to mention Obama :D

I think McCain might of had a better chance of beating Obama if he hadn't of picked a woman for VP :o

Oh no Aktung beat me to it, darn!

[Subnuts]

I just threw the last four years down the Memory Hole.


How fares America?

[Sonicfire1981]

Obama is out of office, I think.

[mapuc]

Obama is out-Lost to Biden.

Markus

[ET2SN]

Keep the old thread archived in case the FBI or Secret Service come a-knockin'. :yeah:

[AVGWarhawk]

It appears there is a 60 day "pause" on items such as lowering costs for insulin that well...we can't say his name, issued before going to some place south of DC. I hope Biden's swift pen on undoing the nameless one's executive orders does not screw up lower prescription costs. Especially insulin.

[MaDef]

@sonicfire1981
..so quite the opposite of what you would call socialist?
In the context of this discussion, yes.

[Rockstar]

Lets do this!

https://pics.me.me/trump-2024-first-female-president-heh-now-that-would-really-freak-6725371.png

[mapuc]

^ Err isn't there some law in USA who says - To be a President you have to be born in USA ?

Markus

[ET2SN]

As long as he has her long-form birth certificate, no big deal. :up:

[u crank]

^ Err isn't there some law in USA who says - To be a President you have to be born in USA ?

Markus

I beleive that young woman was born in New York City Markus. :D

[Skybird]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

Good reading from August 6th, last year.

I found this in the tweet by Mira Furlan, posted in the the thread on her death.

[August]

¡ RULE# 1 ! of new thread!:Kaleun_Salute::arrgh!:



Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump.


:up:

[mapuc]

< What is that or who is it you keep on saying(writing)?

Markus

[Sonicfire1981]

< What is that or who is it you keep on saying(writing)?

Markus

I think they make guitars. or lingerie? Chocolate? Motorbikes?
Anyways, I think the message is: it's going to be an interesting year.

[Sonicfire1981]

Obama is out-Lost to Biden.

Markus

shame. Obama was so much better as president as Biden could ever be.

[u crank]

shame. Obama was so much better as president as Biden could ever be.

Now you're just making stuff up.





:D

[Catfish]

Find the worm

https://i.imgur.com/vkgdgLCl.jpg

[bstanko6]

Sonicfire...

We can agree on that. I hated Obama for destroying the economy. But I would take him in a heartbeat. He’s not a racist.

[Sonicfire1981]

Now you're just making stuff up.

:D

It's true. I have no idea how Biden will fare as a president.

Sonicfire...

We can agree on that. I hated Obama for destroying the economy. But I would take him in a heartbeat. He’s not a racist.

Can you back this with numbers? because (after removing years 2009 & 2020), the average GDP growth per Year in the US is slightly higher in Obama era. Unemployment went from 10& - 4.7% under Obama and slightly continued that trend. US Home prices went up after Obama. So what are you refering to, specifically?

EDIT: also - was he really not? Obama condemned those who were proudest of what they thought was their race. That's pretty racist.

[FeatsOfStrength]

Sonicfire...

We can agree on that. I hated Obama for destroying the economy. But I would take him in a heartbeat. He’s not a racist.

How did Obama destroy the economy? Obama inherited the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression from Bush's administration on assuming office. Most of Trump's economic gains were merely the result of Obama's policies to rebuild the economy after said crisis. We haven't even seen the fallout of Trump's economic policies yet, they're in the post though and it'll make recovering from Covid all that more harder. Trump ran up the largest deficit in US history.

[Rockstar]

How did Obama destroy the economy? Obama inherited the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression from Bush's administration on assuming office. Most of Trump's economic gains were merely the result of Obama's policies to rebuild the economy after said crisis. We haven't even seen the fallout of Trump's economic policies yet, they're in the post though and it'll make recovering from Covid all that more harder. Trump ran up the largest deficit in US history.




Oh my. that is the most frequently used canned answer seen on the internet when anyone argues over the state of the economy. Only the names change. :har:

[bstanko6]

GDP is higher because of Trump.

How about Biden hearing about the national guard being packed into a parking garage in the open to sleep and not doing anything about it!!!

Commander in Chief huh?

BIDEN IS NOT FIT TO LEAD!

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMshlxYKhDM


:hmmm:

[bstanko6]

Beau is the reason cousins are not allowed to marry!

[FeatsOfStrength]

GDP is higher because of Trump.

How about Biden hearing about the national guard being packed into a parking garage in the open to sleep and not doing anything about it!!!

Commander in Chief huh?

BIDEN IS NOT FIT TO LEAD!

Why were the National Guard even in DC?

..nothing to do with the POTUS who incited a mob to attack the Capitol i'm sure, the one who built his premiership on lies and conspiracies.

I for one will be glad to see an adult in charge. Even though I don't agree with most of Biden's agenda I can appreciate that he's not a base coward obsessed with his own ego, a coward who didn't bother making a plan for vaccine distribution in the middle of a pandemic because his conspiracies and "ratings" were more important than American lives.

**** that guy, and anyone who still supports him.

[ET2SN]

But he speaks well about you. :yep:

[MaDef]

Sonicfire...

We can agree on that. I hated Obama for destroying the economy. But I would take him in a heartbeat. He’s not a racist.Are you sure about that?
From Henry Louis Gates Jr's arrest in 2009 to the "Charleston church massacre in 2015", Obama's responses to such incidents did more to foment racial tension, then diffuse it. BLM came to national prominence because of Obama's anemic response to the complaints of the Black community over perceived racial incidents in policing.

[Buddahaid]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-guard-parking-garage/

"But not all the guards were in the parking garage at the same time. During their guard duty shifts, members were cycled into the garage to warm up and take a break. According to officials with the D.C. National Guard, the soldiers had hotel rooms where they could rest after a shift. But soldiers could not easily return to them as they conducted shifts on and off for a few hours over a day or two at a time.

There was some dispute about who made the soldiers move out of the Capitol. According to Capt. Edwin Nieves Jr., a D.C. National Guard spokesman, “As Congress is in session and increased foot traffic and business is being conducted, U.S. Capitol Police asked the troops to move their rest area outside of the Capitol. They were temporarily relocated to the Thurgood Marshall Judicial Center garage with heat and restroom facilities.”

But Yogananda Pittman, the acting chief of the Capitol Police denied this, saying, “I want to assure everyone that, with the exception of specific times on Inauguration Day itself while the swearing-in ceremonies were underway, the United States Capitol Police did not instruct the National Guard to vacate the Capitol Building facilities. And on Inauguration Day, the Guard was notified and encouraged to reoccupy the spaces in the Capitol and CVC at 2 p.m.”

Sen. James Inhofe, a Republican, tried to get to the bottom of the matter: “So this is what happened. There was one uniformed police officer who issued an order without authority or going through the chain of command. I’m glad the Capitol Police are trying to figure who it was. We will identify who that person was and make it public.” The Capitol Police said they were looking into the matter."

[bstanko6]

ET2SN....

I know you are not serious! They have been there for Biden’s inauguration. The whole thing... to protect that worm of a president.

Then he sends them off, DC mayor does not give them hotels...

Biden hears this and does nothing.

That my friends is what you call a piece of s$&@ President!

[bstanko6]

But guess who gave them free hotel rooms?

Your greatest president Donald J Trump!!!!

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ZBQg9qesE



:yep:

[bstanko6]

Trump got this baby!

[bstanko6]

Again, wasting tax dollars for nothing. The Dems are garbage, and now they showed their true colors!!!

[nikimcbee]

It appears there is a 60 day "pause" on items such as lowering costs for insulin that well...we can't say his name, issued before going to some place south of DC. I hope Biden's swift pen on undoing the nameless one's executive orders does not screw up lower prescription costs. Especially insulin.
Didn't know that part. We'll be back to Obamunism insulin prices. $350 a bottle.

[ET2SN]

Let's see what some stodgy old Republicans think..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo


:hmmm:

[bstanko6]

Retarden just halted ICE! Not even criminals are to be deported.

What justice.

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTNQUOOznGg


:hmmm:

[Gorpet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ZBQg9qesE



:yep:

Is that a new Party Suit that he is wearing? What the hell Chuck on the east coast and Nancy on the West coast. We have nothing to fear but Fear it's
self. Were in good hands . Must be bad video i can't see a collar

[Buddahaid]

Is that a new Party Suit that he is wearing? What the hell Chuck on the east coast and Nancy on the West coast. We have nothing to fear but Fear it's
self. Were in good hands .

I actually have no idea what you mean by that. What is "Fear"? An old punk band?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_(band)

[Gorpet]

So let's impeach a man that is no longer a President he is no longer a threat to the Democrats. So this is the left's answer to uniting this Country. Now all you folks across this planet can see for yourselves what hate and revenge is all about. Now you can see why millions of Americans do not want this Political Party in power. History will repeat itself it must be . As it has been thru our history. Party's rule and in the new world order The families of the Party shall Dominate the Earth.

[Buddahaid]

As Dowly stated earlier, why all the right wing calls for unity now that Trump is out? There was no peace offering when he was in office so boo hoo hoo.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/qCDyMNEbiaAdt8mEin/giphy.gif

I felt it would be best to just let it go but events since then have compelled me feel otherwise. I'm all for taking Trump down as hard as possible because he has earned it. It's the bed he made for himself and it's just too bad he has to sleep in it now. Maybe it will be the first time he is actually held responsible for his actions.

See earlier post concerning how socialism is needed to balance capitalism so the US doesn't devolve into a collection of warlords and tribes that would make Africa look good.

[Gorpet]

Now scientist of every country have figured out there is now where for humans to go.Off this Planet We are bound to our Planet earth.So now the Political Families in every country on this planet are in panic mode.

Holy **** what are we going to do.The resources on this Planet are being exhausted. We cant have nuclear war and people are tired of us starting war,s and killing them off. That way and with out war how we will kill off the population and have a Future for our families. And now how can we stop these people from reproducing and eating up the resources of our planet.

Well the answer is simple they set their differences aside and agree,create a virus that will kill the old and any of the young with health Problems.Crash the economies of the world,Create a new monetary system that those in power will still be rich. But those below them will be dead broke. So what's that old song Here we go Again.

[Buddahaid]

Of course, this is totally a man made conspiracy just like the Spanish (I mean American) flu of 1918. Are you being serious?

https://home.fleetworkshop.org/uploads/db1714/original/3X/2/7/27d1f77b7bfee11bd98940d5c66b83e9342fce43.jpeg

[August]

So when the senate trial fails to convict where will that leave the Democrats? A third attempt?

[Buddahaid]

No, it will be over and will move on.
https://home.fleetworkshop.org/uploads/db1714/original/3X/f/6/f6df298a43a2d2554a0f1fc644ea1346b42a6634.jpeg

[Gorpet]

As Dowly stated earlier, why all the right wing calls for unity now that Trump is out? There was no peace offering when he was in office so boo hoo hoo.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/qCDyMNEbiaAdt8mEin/giphy.gif

I felt it would be best to just let it go but events since then have compelled me feel otherwise. I'm all for taking Trump down as hard as possible because he has earned it. It's the bed he made for himself and it's just too bad he has to sleep in it now. Maybe it will be the first time he is actually held responsible for his actions.

See earlier post concerning how socialism is needed to balance capitalism so the US doesn't devolve into a collection of warlords and tribes that would make Africa look good.
Did you not get the memo? Antifa was burning down the Democrat Headquarters
in Portland Oregon while Joe was accepting his new title as the Prez .While they were having the first military inauguration in Washington DC.

[Buddahaid]

Did you not get the memo? Antifa was burning down the Democrat Headquarters
in Portland Oregon while Joe was accepting his new title as the Prez .While they were having the first military inauguration in Washington DC.

Yes, I don't agree with what they did either. Aren't you paying attention?

Christ, Antifa is all for no government and complete "freedom". Isn't that also what the extreme right wants? :hmmm:

[Gorpet]

As Dowly stated earlier, why all the right wing calls for unity now that Trump is out? There was no peace offering when he was in office so boo hoo hoo.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/qCDyMNEbiaAdt8mEin/giphy.gif

I felt it would be best to just let it go but events since then have compelled me feel otherwise. I'm all for taking Trump down as hard as possible because he has earned it. It's the bed he made for himself and it's just too bad he has to sleep in it now. Maybe it will be the first time he is actually held responsible for his actions.

See earlier post concerning how socialism is needed to balance capitalism so the US doesn't devolve into a collection of warlords and tribes that would make Africa look good.
Well while Joe and Kamala basking in their victory ,Antifi was burning down the Democrat headquarters in Portland Oregon. What do you think they should do about that ?

[Buddahaid]

Who is they? The Antifa people should be prosecuted for the crimes committed by due process just like me, or you.

Anyway, you are not responding to my questions in response to your questions so I will await your responses before responding again.

[Gorpet]

Yes, I don't agree with what they did either. Aren't you paying attention?

Christ, Antifa is all for no government and complete "freedom". Isn't that also what the extreme right wants? :hmmm:
Ok so what does complete freedom mean to you? Could you please enlighten us on this forum. Regardless of political association tell us what Complete Freedom means in your mind? Cause there's a lot of people on this planet that would like to know.

[Buddahaid]

Ok so what does complete freedom mean to you? Could you please enlighten us on this forum. Regardless of political association tell us what Complete Freedom means in your mind? Cause there's a lot of people on this planet that would like to know.

You first. I've already responded to that in the locked US politics thread and you have not responded to my questions in this new thread.

[Gorpet]

Yes, I don't agree with what they did either. Aren't you paying attention?

Christ, Antifa is all for no government and complete "freedom". Isn't that also what the extreme right wants? :hmmm:

What is complete freedom? This is the first time i have ever heard this. What does this mean.?

Sorry Space Chicken, Ill come back in a couple days. And let me just say this, I don't get into the debate's That's for the deep thinkers . When you work with men and women in your profession every day your decisions are final. You don't debate that's why i just get to the point. So let the Hammer drop on my head.

[Buddahaid]

You first. I've already responded to that in the locked US politics thread and you have not responded to my questions in this new thread.

:Kaleun_Wink:

[Buddahaid]

What is complete freedom? This is the first time i have ever heard this. What does this mean.?

Sorry Space Chicken, Ill come back in a couple days. And let me just say this, I don't get into the debate's That's for the deep thinkers . When you work with men and women in your profession every day your decisions are final. You don't debate that's why i just get to the point.

I see, you don't have any answer so no relevant opinion to debate. :Kaleun_Applaud:

And to be clear, I work in a hospital where many decisions are entirely final.

[Gorpet]

I see, you don't have any answer so no relevant opinion to debate. :Kaleun_Applaud:

And to be clear, I work in a hospital where many decisions are entirely final.

Ok ,Are you a doctor that decides life or death ? Please tell me what total freedom means. And how can i achieve that.?
If i had to debate every person in my life for any decision that needed to be made. Nothing would ever get accomplished. And that's why all my life from 1958 to today what was done ? Nothing just promises from politicians. guess what my parents died believing in Demoract promises. And that why i ask you what total freedom means to you? In can tell you what my father told me what freedom in this country means. if your interested.

[Cybermat47]

Please tell me what total freedom means. And how can i achieve that.?

No government at all.

[Buddahaid]

Ok ,Are you a doctor that decides life or death ? Please tell me what total freedom means. And how can i achieve that.?

You can't, there is always some level of socialism in governance. We are all merely arguing over how much and where it applies. Without it entirely there is only the law of the tyrants, with it entirely there is only the law of the tyrants. We must have freedom to better ourselves but we also need social systems in government to provide infrastructure. Without it we are not a nation but merely tribes and cabals.

[Sonicfire1981]

GDP is higher because of Trump.
It's not, as I stated earlier.


How about Biden hearing about the national guard being packed into a parking garage in the open to sleep and not doing anything about it!!!

Commander in Chief huh?

It's not, as will become clear in the next post or so.


BIDEN IS NOT FIT TO LEAD!

What I really don't get is, you have over 400.000 dead number increasing by 3.000 each day (I don't have the latest figures) from a virus that was contained in march and miraculously disappeared in beautiful april (the only month ever being sexually harrassed by a US persident). Millions of people now have preexisting condition and in some places your doctors have to make some very difficult decisions. quite frankly, when it comes to the pandemic, the US looks more like a third world country.

And when finally someone sits down with a plan and takes action, all you can do is complain about how diverse his cabinet is and what busts he has in his office.
What's wrong with you?

[Dowly]

Oh my. that is the most frequently used canned answer seen on the internet when anyone argues over the state of the economy. Only the names change. :har:Instead of making yourself look like a fool (oops, too late!), you could've done a very brief google search to find out why people are saying that.

[Jimbuna]

I'm really not sure if there's a grain of truth in the article below but if there is, there's probably more 'stories' out there and a possibility of a best selling book in the future.

The Bidens were momentarily left to wait outside the White House in an awkward moment on Inauguration Day, possibly as a result of a final “petty” act by the Trump administration.

On Wednesday, Joe Biden was inaugurated as the 46th president at a ceremony at the US Capitol, following which the couple was given a military escort to their new home.

Later, as the Bidens walked up the steps to enter the executive mansion, pausing to wave before turning to enter, the much anticipated moment fell flat as the doors failed to open and the couple was left on the doorstep.

According to The National Journal, a well-placed official not associated with the incoming Biden team told the newspaper: "The Trumps sent the butlers home when they left so there would be no one to help the Bidens when they arrived."

“So petty,” the official reportedly added.

It is officially unclear exactly what caused the delay at the doors, which are usually opened by Marine guards.

Notably, the chief usher Timothy Harleth who had been scheduled to welcome the Bidens to the White House in the absence of Mr Trump, had been also abruptly fired five hours earlier.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/bidens-left-stuck-outside-white-house-on-inauguration-day-after-petty-final-trump-act/ar-BB1d0ecP?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAnZ9Ug

[Onkel Neal]

You can't, there is always some level of socialism in governance. We are all merely arguing over how much and where it applies. Without it entirely there is only the law of the tyrants, with it entirely there is only the law of the tyrants. We must have freedom to better ourselves but we also need social systems in government to provide infrastructure. Without it we are not a nation but merely tribes and cabals.


Well said. Yes, I agree there needs to be some level of "social security". I would argue that having too much is a bad thing and that's where most in our society are looking.

[Mr Quatro]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:

[MaDef]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:The word tyranny would be a better adjective, wouldn't you say?

[skidman]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:

This qualifies for the strangest post of the new thread so far. And guess who's come up with it.

Pray harder for some insight.

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5qqoqG094


:hmmm:

[Sonicfire1981]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:

so that's why you're afraid of socialism... because you're clueless...

[u crank]

so that's why you're afraid of socialism... because you're clueless...

You are breaking forum rules.

When discussing a topic, be civil. Agree or disagree with someone but do not attack them or display rudeness. Explain your point of view and use facts, logic and persuasion to engage them. No trolling, gif-baiting, or Ad Hominem attacks.

[Mr Quatro]

This qualifies for the strangest post of the new thread so far. And guess who's come up with it.

Pray harder for some insight.

so that's why you're afraid of socialism... because you're clueless...

Picking on me, because I can see where Biden is leading us (the USA) with open borders, free education, free medical, free anything as long as you vote for him and his party.

No this is not the strangest post, but the truest post :yep:

[Dowly]

You also saw Trump winning a second term.

[skidman]

Picking on me

"but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also"

Explain why Biden's presidency now suddenly leads to "rich millionaires deciding what poor people get" with a rich millionaire just voted out of the White House.

[mapuc]

Wow talk about taking a 180 degrees turn.

While our older US-Politics thread was permeated with critical and sometimes hateful comment on US former President.
Then this thread here is permeated with critical and sometimes hateful comment on current President of USA.

Markus

[Sonicfire1981]

You are breaking forum rules.

Don't be a lawyer.

Picking on me, because I can see where Biden is leading us (the USA) with open borders, free education, free medical, free anything as long as you vote for him and his party.

No this is not the strangest post, but the truest post :yep:

I did not pick on you other than pointing out that your idea of socialism is... plain wrong. That had nothing to do with Biden or the policies he's pursuing.
But while we're at it:

[...]free education, free medical,[...]
I'm again guessing that you're not one of those that make 25 million a year, so - would that not benefit you personally? why would you be against it so desparately?

[u crank]

Don't be a lawyer.

I'm not but I do know the policeman. :03:

[Mr Quatro]

You also saw Trump winning a second term.

Okay Dowly you said the dirty word 'Trump' :D

I'm sorry that I posted Trump would win and then give the White House over to VP Pence ... didn't happen. I repent and I am embarrassed, but this has brought me closer to God. Jesus still loves me ... Amen :yep:

I won't do it again :oops:

[mapuc]

Okay Dowly you said the dirty word 'Trump' :D

I'm sorry that I posted Trump would win and then give the White House over to VP Pence ... didn't happen. I repent and I am embarrassed, but this has brought me closer to God. Jesus still loves me ... Amen :yep:

I won't do it again :oops:

If you take a look at the title of this thread
"US Politics Thread 2021"
One may think-Only 2021 what about the rest- 22-24 ?
Could it mean that the ongoing believe Biden will resign after a year and leave the steering wheel to his VP.

Markus

[Catfish]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:
Not that any opinion or "fact" presented in the US in the last five years should astonish me anymore, but would you care to explain?

[MaDef]

"but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also"

Explain why Biden's presidency now suddenly leads to "rich millionaires deciding what poor people get" with a rich millionaire just voted out of the White House.

You are aware that Biden is worth at least 9-10 million? According to reports He and his wife made 15 million in 2017-2018.

[Rockstar]

Instead of making yourself look like a fool (oops, too late!), you could've done a very brief google search to find out why people are saying that.


The point i was making is I dont give a rats arse what people on google are saying. As they always give the same canned response which I have seen time and time again. Only difference are the names which all depends on the party fanboi talking.

There's a little bit more to how our budget is approved. But simply put, Presidents are only responsible for submitting their budget proposals to congress. The controlling party in congress is really the deciding factor on how far discretionary and mandatory spending will surpass the nations revenue. The list is long and distinguished why budget proposals might get approved by congress sending us deeper in debt. Just to name a few recent major contributing factors.


Bush: 911, War on terror, Iraq and Afghanistan,
Obama: continuation of Middle east operations, The Great Recession
Trump: continuation of previous budget expenditures, COVID response, damaged economy.

Presidents are the ones that just catch all the blame. IMO the ones who are really responsible are pathetic bunch of complainers on google who keep voting in the same representatives that continue to put us in debt.

[u crank]

Rich millionaires deciding what poor people get is already a form of socialism :yep:

Not that any opinion or "fact" presented in the US in the last five years should astonish me anymore, but would you care to explain?

It's just a guess but I would say he was refering to politcians in general.

The median net worth of members of Congress who filed disclosures last year is just over $1 million.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/04/majority-of-lawmakers-millionaires/

[Mr Quatro]

Not that any opinion or "fact" presented in the US in the last five years should astonish me anymore, but would you care to explain?

No not really I didn't mean to stir it up only make a statement that the rich (really rich that is) are deciding how the rest of us are treated.

I know it sounds stupid, but isn't it just as true in China and Cuba and Venezuela as it is in America.

I tried to make sense of it, but I can't ... here's a list with adjustments for today's inflation values.

That might shock you :o

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_richest_American_politicians

This list of richest American politicians includes current and former office-holders and political appointees, and is not necessarily adjusted for inflation. Estimated wealth is at least $100 million in 2012 dollars, for all the people listed here. The amounts listed here do not necessarily pertain to the politicians' time in office (i.e. some of them may have gotten much richer later on, or lost their money before they ran for office).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_net_wor th

List of presidents of the United States by net worth

Jim told me to stay out of here I'm just not ready for you smart guys yet :D

[Sonicfire1981]

You are aware that Biden is worth at least 9-10 million? According to reports He and his wife made 15 million in 2017-2018.

In capitalism, that's a good thing. finally a president that's able to make profits. even better: he even paid taxes

[Catfish]

I'm really not sure if there's a grain of truth in the article below but if there is, there's probably more 'stories' out there and a possibility of a best selling book in the future.

[...]Notably, the chief usher Timothy Harleth who had been scheduled to welcome the Bidens to the White House in the absence of Mr Trump, had been also abruptly fired five hours earlier.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...out&li=AAnZ9Ug

https://i.imgur.com/YlvYNm6l.png

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Politics Thread 2021?

Oh god please no..

[Rockstar]

Here's some interesting observations from Jeremy Lee Quinn that you probably didnt see in main stream media.


https://www.publicreport.org/capitol

https://www.publicreport.org/part1

Dont let the quote on the page scare you into thinking Jeremy or the website is linked to crazy ideologies. Its NOT, he is a furloughed photographer that went in expecting to see one thing but revealed something else.

[Mr Quatro]

Here's some interesting observations from Jeremy Lee Quinn that you probably didnt see in main stream media.

Dont let the quote on the page scare you into thinking Jeremy or the website is linked to crazy ideologies. Its NOT, he is a furloughed photographer that went in expecting to see one thing but revealed something else.

Thank you Rockstar ... “People should not be afraid of their Governments.
Government should be afraid of their people. ”

Something is going on ... you know those crowds for the electoral college votes? ... Something tells me they're going to come back.

This could get a person kicked off social media, uh? :yep:

[Rockstar]

The entire interview with Jeremy is really good, I think the nutshell of it all is @41:54



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFJdjO0fD4E

[skidman]

You are aware that Biden is worth at least 9-10 million? According to reports He and his wife made 15 million in 2017-2018.

I wasn't aware of the exact figures, but it is understood that an impecunious person can not become President. I've always thought wealth is nothing to be ashamed of in the US, but a sign of superior talent, stamina, and sharpness (and a sign God loves you more than those proletarian unworthy sinners). If this is true, I'd expect voters to fancy a wealthy person being President. Am I right?

[Sonicfire1981]

Something is going on ... you know those crowds for the electoral college votes? ... Something tells me they're going to come back.
:

They either withdraw to their cabins in the wood and wait for the end of the world/revolution
or the us got itself a pretty little terror organisation. Luckily for the FBI, it won't have the brightest members.

[August]

I wasn't aware of the exact figures, but it is understood that an impecunious person can not become President. I've always thought wealth is nothing to be ashamed of in the US, but a sign of superior talent, stamina, and sharpness (and a sign God loves you more than those proletarian unworthy sinners). If this is true, I'd expect voters to fancy a wealthy person being President. Am I right?


That would depend on how "The Big Guy" made his money. I don't recall either Biden being captains of industry or writing best selling books or doing really anything to justify making those millions.

[Sonicfire1981]

That would depend on how "The Big Guy" made his money. I don't recall either Biden being captains of industry or writing best selling books or doing really anything to justify making those millions.

As he made his tax information public it's not so hard to figure it out. It's book sales and speaches - might be due to his coherent sentences & thoughts.

if he made 15mil together with his wive - how many millions more did he make than the other president?

[Jeff-Groves]

I'd expect voters to fancy a wealthy person being President. Am I right?
Well. If you take and adjust dollar amounts to today's rates?
George Washington comes in second to Yellow Man.
And Yellow Man tops the list.

Truman was the poorest one ever elected.
In fact? The salary was doubled in 1949 to help him out.

Biden, if you double his money? Still don't have close to Obama by a WIDE 3rd.

[August]

As he made his tax information public it's not so hard to figure it out. It's book sales and speaches - might be due to his coherent sentences & thoughts.

if he made 15mil together with his wive - how many millions more did he make than the other president?




Book sales and speeches are great ways to launder money. :up:

[Sonicfire1981]

Book sales and speeches are great ways to launder money. :up:

For you as a trump fan, this must be a plus.

But remember that the yellow man is so poor that he pays less taxes than YOU. (no matter who you are)

[Jeff-Groves]

Here's what gets me.
A new President gets $100,000 to redecorate the White House.
To feel more at home.

Then:
Presidents and vice presidents, unlike other federal employees, are expressly permitted to receive any gift, for themselves or on behalf of any family members, as long as the gift is not solicited, coerced, or in exchange for an official act.

So............. I could GIFT them a million bucks at a whim. Not expecting anything of course!

[Rockstar]

Thank you Rockstar ... “People should not be afraid of their Governments.
Government should be afraid of their people. ”

Something is going on ... you know those crowds for the electoral college votes? ... Something tells me they're going to come back.

This could get a person kicked off social media, uh? :yep:


Thank me, for what? Hate to say it but its kinda obvious you didn't read anything further than the headline. Because it doesn't really have anything to do with the electoral college, votes, Trump or Biden. It is about the observations and opinion of one person during the recent riots and what main stream media reports.

[August]

For you as a trump fan, this must be a plus.

But remember that the yellow man is so poor that he pays less taxes than YOU. (no matter who you are)


How much taxes one pays has less to do with ones wealth and far more to do with ones understanding of the tax laws. Laws that people like Biden wrote BTW. So unless you are suggesting that Trump committed tax fraud then my response to your ridiculous attempt to stoke class envy is good for him. Every dollar we don't have to feed to the Federal monster is a good thing.

At least I know how Trump made his money. What kind of back room shady deals did Joe Biden strike for his?

[Dowly]

Book sales and speeches are great ways to launder money. :up:
Trump sure has had a lot of dirty money then.

[Mr Quatro]

Thank me, for what? Hate to say it but its kinda obvious you didn't read anything further than the headline. Because it doesn't really have anything to do with the electoral college, votes, Trump or Biden. It is about the observations and opinion of one person during the recent riots and what main stream media reports.

i read it all and was shocked at the truth he revealed vs CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS or even Fox who have bigger budgets to explore the truth.

I didn't watch it all, but I read it all and seeing how's I can no longer predict the future I will remain silent, but whoever is funding these groups is not finished with the battle for what we think. :yep:

[Catfish]

"Petition to rename Scottish airport near Donald Trump's golf course after Joe Biden" :har:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/petition-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910

[Sonicfire1981]

How much taxes one pays has less to do with ones wealth and far more to do with ones understanding of the tax laws. Laws that people like Biden wrote BTW. So unless you are suggesting that Trump committed tax fraud then my response to your ridiculous attempt to stoke class envy is good for him. Every dollar we don't have to feed to the Federal monster is a good thing.

At least I know how Trump made his money. What kind of back room shady deals did Joe Biden strike for his?

I'm suggesting Trump commited tax fraud. He's either a good businessman that makes a lot of profit and should pay his share in taxes to support his community - and evaded that obligation, or he's at worrying losses and ... well, not so good at doing busine . and other fraud. and bribery, embezzlement. And that's just the things that are obvious.
He stole from you, the taxpayer and paid taxes in china (so much to understanding tax laws).

[Buddahaid]

You mean inflating the value of property to obtain loans and then devaluing it when taxes are due?

[u crank]

I'm suggesting Trump commited tax fraud.

I think that is the wrong word .. fraud.

You don't think Trump sits at the kitchen table with a calculator and a pencil and does his own taxes do you. Rich people get tax lawyers and accountants to do their taxes.

But if you know something call the IRS hot line.:O:

[bstanko6]

Sonicfire isn’t thinking clearly...

He had the CHY NUH virus!

Biden gave his first “CMON MAN” to the media, and his press secretary can’t get past “uh umm huh uhhhh!”

Circus is getting bigger!

[Sonicfire1981]

At least I know how Trump made his money.

It's probably a lie.

[Aktungbby]

"Petition to rename Scottish airport near Donald Trump's golf course after Joe Biden" :har:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/petition-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910

NO! That's enough about Trumpo!! No more Trump talk
please!
THANK GOD! And Brewers in Scotland concur: Scottish brewing company BrewDog wants to rename a Glasgow airport, often used by President @ßOLE when he visits the country, after President-elect Joe Biden. @ßOLE is the owner of both the @ßOLE Turnberry golf course and @ßOLE International Golf Links Aberdeen in Scotland. Rumors that @ßOLE would visit Turnberry after leaving the White House came after U.S. planes were allegedly spotted on surveillance missions around the Turnberry resort. Though I 'spect they'll name it after 007 the late Sean Connery! https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2723075&postcount=13166 As usual yer a day(s)
late and a shekel short but C'mon fellas; I think Neal really meant 'let's move on from US Politics thread 1 and not mention the charlatan ogre @ßOLE again... I'd a thought post2 of this thread emphasized a new beginning, not a bitter rehash of old crap! :arrgh!:

[August]

I'm suggesting Trump commited tax fraud. He's either a good businessman that makes a lot of profit and should pay his share in taxes to support his community - and evaded that obligation, or he's at worrying losses and ... well, not so good at doing busine . and other fraud. and bribery, embezzlement. And that's just the things that are obvious.
He stole from you, the taxpayer and paid taxes in china (so much to understanding tax laws).


Uh huh, all I see here is a bunch of whiny unproven allegations.

Like U crank says if you have some actual information instead of liberal masturbatory fantasies then there is an IRS hotline and i'm sure they would want to hear from you.

[August]

"Petition to rename Scottish airport near Donald Trump's golf course after Joe Biden" :har:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/petition-rename-scottish-airport-near-23346910




Excellent idea. Then every time Trump flies there he'll be landing on Joe Biden and sticking his jumbo jet into Joes gaping hangar. Oh yeah please do it! The memes will be epic!

[Sonicfire1981]

Sonicfire isn’t thinking clearly...

He had the CHY NUH virus!

Biden gave his first “CMON MAN” to the media, and his press secretary can’t get past “uh umm huh uhhhh!”

Circus is getting bigger!

careful, u_crank will think that you break the rules.

You left a lot of my questions/remarks unanswered, but I still try once more:

Why are your superrich able and encouraged to evade taxes, even cheered upon when they take money that could be used to build and maintain schools, streets and ... walls, if you must?
Why is it the obligation of those that need to have two or three jobs to provide for those communal services without opportunity to evade any tax?
Why is it wrong to be able to get medical treatment regardless of your income?
Why don't you want kids with poorer parents notto go to good schools?

What medical condition is this?

[Buddahaid]

Uh huh, all I see here is a bunch of whiny unproven allegations.

Like U crank says if you have some actual information instead of liberal masturbatory fantasies then there is an IRS hotline and i'm sure they would want to hear from you.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/526826-new-york-expands-trump-tax-fraud-investigations-to-include-writeoffs

"The Times reported that a criminal investigation by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance (D) and a civil probe by the state Attorney General Letitia James (D), which are being conducted independently, have both apparently issued subpoenas to the Trump Organization in recent weeks for records in connection to the write-offs.

This comes after a Times investigation published in September based on more than two decades of Trump’s tax records found that he had deducted approximately $26 million in fees to unidentified consultants on several projects between 2010 and 2018."

[Sonicfire1981]

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2723075&postcount=13166 [COLOR="Lime"]As usual yer a day(s)
late and a shekel short but C'mon fellas; I think Neal really meant 'let's move on from US Politics thread 1 and not mention the charlatan ogre @ßOLE again... I'd a thought post2 of this thread emphasized a new beginning, not a bitter rehash of old crap! :arrgh!:

I tried, really. the problem is, once you leave remarks uncontested that the one you mention is anything but what you mention - it becomes consensus.
You know: "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." (John Stuart Mill)

[u crank]

What medical condition is this?

It's not a medical condition it is a economic system. No system is perfect but the American model seems to attract a lot of people from other parts of the globe and some are desparate to get there.

Seems kinda strange that such a bad system is such an attraction.

[Mr Quatro]

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2723075&postcount=13166 [COLOR="Lime"]As usual yer a day(s)
late and a shekel short but C'mon fellas; I think Neal really meant 'let's move on from US Politics thread 1 and not mention the charlatan ogre @ßOLE again... I'd a thought post2 of this thread emphasized a new beginning, not a bitter rehash of old crap! :arrgh!:

I agree Aktung, but it's just a suggestion which can not be obeyed especially with the second impeachment trial coming up Feb 8th.

I don't think the US Senate has enough votes to do Trump in ... they need 17 votes ... :yep:

Remember as big as Trump lost he still has over 72 million men and women that voted for him anyone against Trump will be noted and demoted. :yep:

Besides most members have been calling him something else anyway, like orange man etc :D

[August]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/526826-new-york-expands-trump-tax-fraud-investigations-to-include-writeoffs

"The Times reported that a criminal investigation by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance (D) and a civil probe by the state Attorney General Letitia James (D), which are being conducted independently, have both apparently issued subpoenas to the Trump Organization in recent weeks for records in connection to the write-offs.

This comes after a Times investigation published in September based on more than two decades of Trump’s tax records found that he had deducted approximately $26 million in fees to unidentified consultants on several projects between 2010 and 2018."
:roll:
And meanwhile:


Biden Stops Trump Order To Slash Price Of Insulin, EpiPen



President Joe Biden’s United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) on Thursday stopped executive orders from his predecessor designed to significantly lower prescription drug prices for Americans, including insulin and epinephrine.
The new administration will apparently re-evaluate the executive action from President Donald Trump toward the end of March. It remains unclear if it will be reinstated.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-stops-trump-order-to-slash-price-of-insulin-epipen?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

[Buddahaid]

:roll:

So what, those are still criminal investigations which will have outcomes.

[bstanko6]

Unclassified documents show Hillary Clinton trying to connect Trump to Russia!

Uh oh!

.....CHY NUH!!!!!

[Cybermat47]

Lawyer for the 'Q Shaman' who stormed the Capitol in a fur headdress with horns says his client feels 'duped' after Trump didn't pardon him

https://www.businessinsider.com/q-shaman-us-capitol-rioter-feels-duped-trump-lawyer-says-2021-1

Speaking to local television station KSDK on Thursday, Chansley's lawyer Al Watkins said that his client had expected to be pardoned by Trump but that he has now realized he'd been "duped."

"He regrets very, very much having not just been duped by the president, but by being in a position where he allowed that duping to put him in a position to make decisions he should not have made," Watkins said, according to Law & Crime.

Gotta love how he’s trying to shift all of the blame onto Trump, as if he himself didn’t make a conscious decision to break into the Capitol.

Dude needs to grow some balls and take responsibility for his own actions.

[skidman]

Seems kinda strange that such a bad system is such an attraction.

Is it the US system that attracts (=pulls) so much, or the scandalous poverty, suffering and inequity in the home countries that pushes so hard? We both know the answer.

[Dowly]

And meanwhile:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-stops-trump-order-to-slash-price-of-insulin-epipen?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro
A regulatory pause is a common tradition among incoming presidents to ensure that the unfinished policies from the prior administration align with the new one. In many cases, there are no substantial disagreements among the two administrations and the policies can continue on their normal path. But the pause gives incoming officials a chance to weed out the actions that go against the current president’s stance.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/last-minute-flurry-of-health-rules-subject-to-biden-60-day-pause

[u crank]

Is it the US system that attracts (=pulls) so much, or the scandalous poverty, suffering and inequity in the home countries that pushes so hard? We both know the answer.

Oh I would agree that is so.

But I also believe that there are people who want to come to the USA and here in Canada because they want to go where there is a Capitalist free market economy. They want to be successful entrepreneurs and business owners. They want their children to have those opportunities as well. And of course many are escaping an certain type of political system for what we can only assume is, to them a better political system.

[3catcircus]

In less than 72 hours, Joe Biden:

—Killed 70,000+ jobs
—Eliminated women's sports
—Invaded Syria
—Left the National Guard to freeze in a garage
—Admitted he doesn't have a plan to fight COVID
—Broke his own mask mandate EO
—Ended US energy independence
—Ensured poor people with diabetes will die

Do you miss Trump yet?

[Sonicfire1981]

In less than 72 hours, Joe Biden:

—Killed 70,000+ jobs
—Eliminated women's sports
—Invaded Syria
—Left the National Guard to freeze in a garage
—Admitted he doesn't have a plan to fight COVID
—Broke his own mask mandate EO
—Ended US energy independence
—Ensured poor people with diabetes will die

Do you miss Trump yet?

Most of this has already been debunked, but ok, thread moves quickly, is split in two on top of that and you might have missed... well... everything.

How much of this can you back up, I dare you

[Moonlight]

Unfortunately no one has to back anything up in this era of fake news. :O:
Is Biden going to get the same treatment from the right wingers now because the lefties sure stuck it to Trump didn't they?. :yep:

[Skybird]

For a start I give Biden the same that I gave his predecessors: 100 days. That his imminent successor did not take even 100 days to unmask himself, is not Biden's fault.

That style and tone have changed dramatically, can be seen already now. And I like this moderaterness and decency in manners much better than the brutal proletarianism of the now gone one.


Manners are social grease. They make things and interactions easier.

[Sonicfire1981]

Manners are social grease. They make things and interactions easier.

THERE IS THE PROOF: YOU ARE A SOCIALIST!!!11eleven.

[Buddahaid]

In less than 72 hours, Joe Biden:

...—Ended US energy independence...
Do you miss Trump yet?

It appears to me that the US has plenty of oil independence.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20the%20United%20States%2 0exported%20about%208.47%20MMb%2Fd,0.67%20MMb%2Fd% 20in%202019.

[u crank]

For a start I give Biden the same that I gave his predecessors: 100 days. That his imminent successor did not take even 100 days to unmask himself, is not Biden's fault.

That is fair and I am willing to wait and see. But if the Executive Orders signed by Biden on his first day are not an anomaly then we don't have to wait 100 days. Biden's policy plans are pretty obvious.

[3catcircus]

Most of this has already been debunked, but ok, thread moves quickly, is split in two on top of that and you might have missed... well... everything.

How much of this can you back up, I dare you


Are you gonna go right to the triple dog dare?


1. He revoked the Keystone XL permits - that's roughly 11,000 direct jobs that would have been created, plus approximately 60,000 indirect jobs (i.e. in related industries such as the companies that make the pipes, make the tools, etc.)


The UAG union (who endorse Burden last summer) apparently is having buyer's remorse:


https://uagetinvolved.org/content/keystone-xl-decision-will-raise-energy-costs-american-families


As is the AOPL:


https://aopl.org/stories/aopl-laments-jobs-lost-on-biden-s-on-first-day




2. Women's sports?


https://nypost.com/2021/01/21/bidens-exec-order-unlevels-the-playing-field-for-girls/


I think I'll see if my high school football lineman and lacrosse playing son wants to throw on some lipstick and compete against the girls in girls lacrosse...


3. Invading Syria: You don't have to believe that a "large" convoy means hundreds of vehicles. You just have to understand that sending *any* convoy into Syria is a bad idea.



https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/01/22/u-s-forces-choppered-into-syria-24-hours-after-new-commander-in-chief-takes-power-1020071/


Discounting that the Syrian government are garbage humans, the *only* reason for this escalation is for this (going hand-in-hand with cancelling of the Keystone XL pipeline project):


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsXxvO9XIAA6xaE?format=jpg&name=900x900


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsXxvO_W8AAY2BC?format=jpg&name=small


4. National Guard - I'm not gonna bother linking to any stories - you can do the google yourself to see that they kicked the guard out of the Capitol - a 40 degree F garage is no place for them to rest and sleep - its not as if they are in a foxhole in the Ardennes...


5. No plan to fight COVID.



https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html


Of course - Fauci went off-script just prior to this:


https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-refutes-biden-admin-claim-223548275.html


6. Mask mandates:


https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-mask-mandate-lincoln-memorial-1563657


7. Energy independence:


https://framinghamsource.com/index.php/2021/01/21/president-biden-signs-executive-order-to-tackle-climate-crisis-issues/


There's a lot there - but note the revocation of Trump EOs in Section 7 - most importantly - right there in black and white at the top of the article is the attribution to the Burden administration.


8. Killing diabetics:


https://thecoloradoherald.com/2021/bidens-higher-insulin-prices-hurt-millions-of-low-income-americans-especially-minorities/

[Skybird]

That is fair and I am willing to wait and see. But if the Executive Orders signed by Biden on his first day are not an anomaly then we don't have to wait 100 days. Biden's policy plans are pretty obvious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

[3catcircus]

For a start I give Biden the same that I gave his predecessors: 100 days. That his imminent successor did not take even 100 days to unmask himself, is not Biden's fault.

That style and tone have changed dramatically, can be seen already now. And I like this moderaterness and decency in manners much better than the brutal proletarianism of the now gone one.


Manners are social grease. They make things and interactions easier.


You really think Burden is gonna last 100 days? We've already got proof that he has handlers feeding him info in an earpiece. We've had proof all year long that he is suffering from some form of mental degradation. We have a whistleblower who worked on his campaign claiming they "called a lid" so often and so early because they didn't want people seeing his dementia, not always successfully - at one point he thought he was campaigning against Gary Hart in the 1980s... This same whistleblower claims that interns would be sent to pick up his Namenda prescription under false names and that staffers actually sat around a conference room table to discuss which adult diapers he should wear - so that they were less visible, would be least likely to leak, and least likely to make crinkle-crinkle noises while he moved.



Face facts - Burden is exactly that - a Burden on Americans who are already suffering under his first batch of EOs; a burden for his handlers who are doing the bidding of an unelected communist oligarchy; and a burden on Heels Up Harris who is visibly champing at the bit until they can 25th Amendment him.

[u crank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

And?

I know what an EO is Skybird. I don't understand the link.

[August]

So what, those are still criminal investigations which will have outcomes.


Yes, I expect that Trump will be vindicated in the end just like he has in every other Democrat witch hunt these past four years.

[Buddahaid]

Yes, I expect that Trump will be vindicated in the end just like he has in every other Democrat witch hunt these past four years.

Likely as not but he better find some better lawyers than Rudy and Cohen. :arrgh!:

[Sonicfire1981]

You really think Burden is gonna last 100 days? We've already got proof that he has handlers feeding him info in an earpiece.
The earpiece thing again?

We've had proof all year long that he is suffering from some form of mental degradation. We have a whistleblower who worked on his campaign claiming they "called a lid" so often and so early because they didn't want people seeing his dementia, not always successfully - at one point he thought he was campaigning against Gary Hart in the 1980s... This same whistleblower claims that interns would be sent to pick up his Namenda prescription under false names and that staffers actually sat around a conference room table to discuss which adult diapers he should wear - so that they were less visible, would be least likely to leak, and least likely to make crinkle-crinkle noises while he moved.

That's made up. Fun story thou.


Face facts - Burden is exactly that - a Burden on Americans who are already suffering under his first batch of EOs; a burden for his handlers who are doing the bidding of an unelected communist oligarchy; and a burden on Heels Up Harris who is visibly champing at the bit until they can 25th Amendment him.

There is not a single "unelected communist oligarchy" on this entire planet.
Harris would be refreshing as president; women make competent political leaders, ask germany, new zealand and others. Or do you believe women should stay home, take care of house and kids and do that well?

[Rockstar]

Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement-en.svg/800px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement-en.svg.png

[August]

It appears to me that the US has plenty of oil independence.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20the%20United%20States%2 0exported%20about%208.47%20MMb%2Fd,0.67%20MMb%2Fd% 20in%202019.


Posting stats from 2019 doesn't prove anything. Give your boy a chance. It'll take more than a few days for his job killing policies to take effect.

[August]

Or do you believe women should stay home, take care of house and kids and do that well?


That's about as sexist as you saying that their gender alone makes women more competent leaders than men.

[mapuc]

The upcoming impeachment will not end happy for the former President of USA.

I think this time he will get a verdict.

Now Since neither the Congress or The Senate can judge a civilian-they can, what I understand- Give him a verdict posthum. What kind of verdict I don't know.
Maybe close the door to the White House-the next 5-10 years.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

I think that comment arises from the childish misogynic nicknames Harris's detractors use. This thread would probably work better if everyone stopped with the derogatory nicknames of which I've been guilty of using as well at times.

[Skybird]

And?

I know what an EO is Skybird. I don't understand the link.
First table, fourth and seventh column.

[Moonlight]

It was considered fair game by the Democrats to give Trump all sorts of flak but now Biden's in the hot seat people should give him an easy ride, you can bollocks to that matey.
As for the derogotary nicknames the democrats are masters at it so we'll see if the Republicans can at least try and match them. Since Trump was elected the US Politics thread has been entertaining to say the least, long may it continue. :haha:

[3catcircus]

I think that comment arises from the childish misogynic nicknames Harris's detractors use. This thread would probably work better if everyone stopped with the derogatory nicknames of which I've been guilty of using as well at times.

That she's known as Heels Up Harris is less a misogynistic nickname as it is accurate as to how she was able to move up in her career path - directly from the people she slept with in exchange for favors. We have directly from the mouth of Willie Brown the fact that she had an extra-marital affair with him and he, in turn, gave her two political appointments that launched her career as a politician.

That you may not like it doesn't make it any less true. If she was willing to sleep with a mayor/state assembly speaker, people may rightfully be concerned that she could be influenced by adversaries.

Both she *and* Burden would *never* be able to obtain a clearance if they weren't in the office because they are already compromised or would be at too great of a risk to be compromised by foreign agents.

[u crank]

First table, fourth and seventh column.

Why don't you just say what you mean. You usually don't have that problem. :D

[Mr Quatro]

The upcoming impeachment will not end happy for the former President of USA.

I think this time he will get a verdict.

Now Since neither the Congress or The Senate can judge a civilian-they can, what I understand- Give him a verdict posthum. What kind of verdict I don't know.
Maybe close the door to the White House-the next 5-10 years.

Markus

You might be right Markus

At first I was thinking no way will they find 17 Republican Senators to agree to the impeachment that would then deny Trump from ever holding office again, but ___________________


What if the rumor's of Trump starting another party called MAGA party really had a chance? It would weaken the GOP to the extent that the GOP could not possibly win against the democrats two years from now (much less in the next National Election of 2024) :o

[MaDef]

For a start I give Biden the same that I gave his predecessors: 100 days. That his imminent successor did not take even 100 days to unmask himself, is not Biden's fault.

That style and tone have changed dramatically, can be seen already now. And I like this moderaterness and decency in manners much better than the brutal proletarianism of the now gone one.


Manners are social grease. They make things and interactions easier.

LOL, Anyone else see the irony? particularly the first sentence.

[3catcircus]

You might be right Markus

At first I was thinking no way will they find 17 Republican Senators to agree to the impeachment that would then deny Trump from ever holding office again, but ___________________


What if the rumor's of Trump starting another party called MAGA party really had a chance? It would weaken the GOP to the extent that the GOP could not possibly win against the democrats two years from now (much less in the next National Election of 2024) :o

Doesn't really matter. The GOPers who voted to impeach already damaged their chances of being re elected.

If Trump is forced into not being allowed to run again, it'll only increase his chances of starting a new party or if starting a new faction in the GOP which *will* result in primarying every single senator and representative that opposed him.

Even if he can't run again, he'll support those with the same political temperature as him.

[Sonicfire1981]

1. He revoked the Keystone XL permits - that's roughly 11,000 direct jobs that would have been created, plus approximately 60,000 indirect jobs (i.e. in related industries such as the companies that make the pipes, make the tools, etc.)[...]
Ah. You linked to the pipeline lobby. I wonder why they aren't happy about the cancelation. Anyway:
You say it yourself: it's *potential* Jobs that may or may not have been created eventually, to which I might add that that this is US and Canada combined; It's also worth noting that Keystone XL is not under construction in the US as it was waiting for a court ruling. which means that not a single american job was lost that day. Except maybe one paper-pusher.
the figure "60.000" is still missing, btw.


2. Women's sports?

I think I'll see if my high school football lineman and lacrosse playing son wants to throw on some lipstick and compete against the girls in girls lacrosse...

professional sport always had problems with hormones, I believe including a minority to raise public acceptance won't change that. Certainly too weak an argument to call it elimination.


3. Invading Syria: You don't have to believe that a "large" convoy means hundreds of vehicles. You just have to understand that sending *any* convoy into Syria is a bad idea.

Congratulations, you now officially believe in Syrian Propaganda (SANA). Should I asume that you want your troops in syria unsupplied? what kind of patriot wants that?


4. National Guard - I'm not gonna bother linking to any stories - you can do the google yourself to see that they kicked the guard out of the Capitol - a 40 degree F garage is no place for them to rest and sleep - its not as if they are in a foxhole in the Ardennes...

That one has been debunked also. Since I'm superlazy you'll have to scroll up yourself or hope someone else provides the link one more time. In fact your national guard had hotelrooms *as well as a garage with heating and restrooms to warm up in times where shifts would not allow them to go to the hotel. They were better taken care of than the secret service at the Kushner/Tramp residence, btw. (because: restrooms)


5. No plan to fight COVID.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/biden-says-nothing-can-change-the-trajectory-of-covid-pandemic-over-the-next-several-months.html


read the title in the first url again. that's completely different from what you stated. it has to do with exponential growth and actions not taken in march, when the virus was "contained" and april, when it "miraculously went away".
And that fauci has something in the drawer other than injecting desinfectant & hydrochloroquin, is despite the previous administration ("Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci!"...), not because of.

[Sonicfire1981]

It was considered fair game by the Democrats to give Trump all sorts of flak but now Biden's in the hot seat people should give him an easy ride, you can bollocks to that matey.
That might be because at this point in his presidency, the predominant point was wether his inauguration crowd was the biggest ever, which photos to manipulate and what alternative facts are.

As for the derogotary nicknames the democrats are masters at it so we'll see if the Republicans can at least try and match them.

whataboutism.

[August]

professional sport always had problems with hormones, I believe including a minority to raise public acceptance won't change that. Certainly too weak an argument to call it elimination.


He wasn't talking about professional sports and you know it.

Amateur women and girls sports will be completely destroyed. Burly "former" males will be able to use their god given physical size and strength to dominate over natural females in every contest.

[Buddahaid]

That might be because at this point in his presidency, the predominant point was wether his inauguration crowd was the biggest ever, which photos to manipulate and what alternative facts are.


whataboutism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-55hPvPnTOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPb7oxdF5XQ

[Mr Quatro]

Nancy Pelosi (after drinking too much wine) said, "Trump is like stepping in dog poopie" :haha:

[3catcircus]

Ah. You linked to the pipeline lobby. I wonder why they aren't happy about the cancelation. Anyway:
You say it yourself: it's *potential* Jobs that may or may not have been created eventually, to which I might add that that this is US and Canada combined; It's also worth noting that Keystone XL is not under construction in the US as it was waiting for a court ruling. which means that not a single american job was lost that day. Except maybe one paper-pusher.
the figure "60.000" is still missing, btw.


You fail to understand the big picture. Only 1.2 miles were built in the US before being halted by a lawsuit (before Burden's EO) - which means hundreds of miles that would have been built which means that about 1000 people are now out of work, with a total of 11,000 estimated to either lose their jobs or have their jobs no longer made available. The 60,000 secondary is an estimate by the company(ies) building the pipeline.


Potential jobs lost are still jobs lost. As to the accuracy of the estimated totals - I think I'd trust a company to know with far greater accuracy what the impact to their bottom-line is going to be than government can.



professional sport always had problems with hormones, I believe including a minority to raise public acceptance won't change that. Certainly too weak an argument to call it elimination.


Who said anything about professional sports? We are talking about youth, high school, and college. And - as far as "pro" sports go... Allyson Felix is an olympian with about a dozen medals in sprints. Her 400m world record time is just over 49 seconds. Someone did a quick search and figured out that (using stats from 2018 since that was the latest available), over 300 high school boys had faster times. Its apples and oranges in regards to competitiveness if you allow biological males to compete against girls.



Congratulations, you now officially believe in Syrian Propaganda (SANA). Should I asume that you want your troops in syria unsupplied? what kind of patriot wants that?


That it may be propagandized doesn't make it untrue. Why are we in Syria again? Oh that's right - to secure things for an oil pipeline to run from Turkey to Qatar to benefit, amongst other shining beacons of freedom and democracy - Iran and China.



That one has been debunked also. Since I'm superlazy you'll have to scroll up yourself or hope someone else provides the link one more time. In fact your national guard had hotelrooms *as well as a garage with heating and restrooms to warm up in times where shifts would not allow them to go to the hotel. They were better taken care of than the secret service at the Kushner/Tramp residence, btw. (because: restrooms)


I hate to have to prove you wrong again. I'll assume you've never served - one ****ter for hundreds (thousands) of soldiers is a recipe for disaster. Where was the heating again? A parking garage is an open-air structure. Fact of the matter is the Dems should have been falling all over themselves to ensure that the guardsmen were treated like kings. They could have had marines there and had to live with dick pics drawn all over the inside of the rotunda...



read the title in the first url again. that's completely different from what you stated. it has to do with exponential growth and actions not taken in march, when the virus was "contained" and april, when it "miraculously went away".
And that fauci has something in the drawer other than injecting desinfectant & hydrochloroquin, is despite the previous administration ("Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci!"...), not because of.


Face facts - the previous administration had a plan that they executed pretty much flawlessly:


1. Get a vaccine ready.
2. Distribute it to the state governments and then move on to supplying to foreign countries.
3. Allow each state to distribute locally as they deem most appropriate since what works for one state won't necessarily work for another. Oh - and provide cryo recharges to them while awaiting use.


You wanna lay blame on failure to distribute - blame those states who managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


Fauci came out and said that they were using the Trump admin plans and modifying some pieces of them. Burden subsequently stated that there was nothing the admin could do to change the trajectory of things for months.



So - either modifying an existing plan is re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic or it isn't and Burden has no clue what is going on.



The fact that Fauci was most recently on MSNBC fawning over Maddow is proof positive that if there is any blame to lay on the previous admin - it belongs squarely on his shoulders for lying about effective countermeasures and moving of goalposts - and upon the CDC itself for screwing things up very early in the situation last year:


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cdc-response-speci-idUKKBN29R1E7

[Catfish]

Strange auction in USA. Who wants to blow up Trump's old casino?

By google translate

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Wer-will-Trumps-altes-Kasino-sprengen-article22242669.html

[bstanko6]

60k job load is accurate. Immediately 10k on line workers will be unemployed.

But you have to figure in administrative, logistical, laborers, other trades slated to come in behind pipe fitters.

Biden is a cancer!

What is Sad... this is a California thing. Got Harris, AOC, and ihnran Ihateamerica written all over it.

[Catfish]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-usa-explainer/explainer-south-china-sea-tension-flares-again-as-biden-takes-charge-idUSKBN29U0LO

[Skybird]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-usa-explainer/explainer-south-china-sea-tension-flares-again-as-biden-takes-charge-idUSKBN29U0LO
Adding to that that China has self-legitimised itself by new legislations to attack and destroy installations of foreign powers on any island, atoll and piece of land within its claimed territorial waters, including practically all of the South-Chinese Sea.

Their aggressiveness has reached to levels in recent years that lets say fifteen years ago i did not really expect to see this early. Later on the century, but not this early. It all has become worse quicker than I thought it would. But people call me a pessimist...?!

It will be interesting to see if the US really is willing to engage in a full hot war. And if so, which I do not take for certain, it can still win it, which i also do not take for certain.

The nationalistic and aggressive behaviour - and the blatant arrogance and notorious lying - of China reminds me absolutely of the behaviour of Germany pre-1939. Or in plain English - they absolutely kill my last nerve. Their traders at Amazon as well, for that matter.

That Merkel pushed the EU to sign a trade agreement with China, is imo unforgivable. She does what she has done for 15 years now: maximising Europe's and Germany's dependency from other actors and factors that it has no control over. Stupid. You do not gain stability and security that way. You only get weak this way.

[AVGWarhawk]

60k job load is accurate. Immediately 10k on line workers will be unemployed.

But you have to figure in administrative, logistical, laborers, other trades slated to come in behind pipe fitters.

Biden is a cancer!

What is Sad... this is a California thing. Got Harris, AOC, and ihnran Ihateamerica written all over it.

Not to mention Biden ticked off the Canadians! One of the USA staunchest allies.

[AVGWarhawk]

Nancy Pelosi (after drinking too much wine) said, "Trump is like stepping in dog poopie" :haha:

She is a real class act. :doh: I expect this type of comment from Trump. Oh well, I guess the both are not much different.

[AVGWarhawk]

The new press secretary for Biden finally answered that question that all wanted to know. What is Joe's favorite ice cream. Vanilla with chocolate chips. Glad that all important question has been answered.
:doh:

[Buddahaid]

"Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani sued by Dominion voting machine firm"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55801819

[3catcircus]

"Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani sued by Dominion voting machine firm"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55801819

They seem pretty happy to sue everyone. Let's see if they mean it and if it happens in a jurisdiction that will finally force them to release the actual source code used by the machines in question, along with the config files, as part of discovery.

[Buddahaid]

Yep. Hopefully this will calm some of the storm but I doubt it.

[AVGWarhawk]

"Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani sued by Dominion voting machine firm"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55801819


Everyone knew that was coming. Dominion will be under suspicion with their voting machines. Whether Dominion screwed the pooch or not, from here on out this election will probably cripple their business. Perhaps Dominion's damage control should have started a bit sooner and more vigorously.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

The new press secretary for Biden finally answered that question that all wanted to know. What is Joe's favorite ice cream. Vanilla with chocolate chips. Glad that all important question has been answered.
:doh:

Hey, Warhawk, Drachinifel is supposed to come to the U.S. Have you thought about asking him if he'd like a behind-the-scenes tour of the Torsk?

(I think it's amusing that I can say "Drachinifel" without any other information and expect someone on this board to know who he is..:yeah:)

[Mr Quatro]

They seem pretty happy to sue everyone. Let's see if they mean it and if it happens in a jurisdiction that will finally force them to release the actual source code used by the machines in question, along with the config files, as part of discovery.

There is so much false information out there that most people don't even care to investigate it.

I really worry about the future of America with so many false claims. :hmmm:

Do your own home work :yep:

We have been mislead and I point to the last administration about dominion being the reason :yep:

who owns dominion voting systems

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00q88kEZT-KfqrtojJ5h6pQZePpRg:1611601590412&q=who+owns+dominion+voting+systems&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGlsPi47fuAhXWHc0KHV1DBsUQ1QIoAHoECAgQA Q&biw=1920&bih=937

[AVGWarhawk]

Hey, Warhawk, Drachinifel is supposed to come to the U.S. Have you thought about asking him if he'd like a behind-the-scenes tour of the Torsk?

(I think it's amusing that I can say "Drachinifel" without any other information and expect someone on this board to know who he is..:yeah:)

Torvald,

The Torsk Restoration folks basically disbanded 10 years ago. The people who oversee the inner harbor never liked the Torsk and was opposed to having people onboard restoring her on any given Saturday morning. Money and politics, etc. I have not crossed the Torsk's deck for close a decade now. I have no idea how she is fairing. At any rate, behind the scene bilge water drinking is no longer.

[mapuc]

I didn't knew it is so hard to get rid of an obsession.

As mentioned before-We have a weekly magazine on our news channel.

From 2018 and up to the election-it was called The world according to Trump
Around the election and up to 20th Jan-they had renamed it to The world according to Trump & Biden.

Now you may think that from now on-it's The world according to Biden-No such thing.

Now the title is The World after Trump.

Seems like the world media is obsessed with this guy.

Markus

[3catcircus]

Everyone knew that was coming. Dominion will be under suspicion with their voting machines. Whether Dominion screwed the pooch or not, from here on out this election will probably cripple their business. Perhaps Dominion's damage control should have started a bit sooner and more vigorously.

The fact that they actually sent a letter to Melissa Carone that stated "you were hired to just clean stuff and do menial tasks" is sufficiently scumbaggish that as loopy as she sounded, it actually makes me want to believe her more. It's a "you're a nobody - no one is going to believe you anyway" move intended to shut someone up who is being inconvenient - a Harvey Weinstein type of move.

And as to Giuliani - I think that a former federal prosecutor in SDNY knows how to handle himself regarding being sued.

[3catcircus]

There is so much false information out there that most people don't even care to investigate it.

I really worry about the future of America with so many false claims. :hmmm:

Do your own home work :yep:

We have been mislead and I point to the last administration about dominion being the reason :yep:

who owns dominion voting systems

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00q88kEZT-KfqrtojJ5h6pQZePpRg:1611601590412&q=who+owns+dominion+voting+systems&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGlsPi47fuAhXWHc0KHV1DBsUQ1QIoAHoECAgQA Q&biw=1920&bih=937

I get what you're saying - the fact is that dominion is the end result is multiple mergers, acquisitions, spinoffs, and divestitures of basis companies. Its next to impossible for most people to keep track of.

[AVGWarhawk]

I didn't knew it is so hard to get rid of an obsession.

As mentioned before-We have a weekly magazine on our news channel.

From 2018 and up to the election-it was called The world according to Trump
Around the election and up to 20th Jan-they had renamed it to The world according to Trump & Biden.

Now you may think that from now on-it's The world according to Biden-No such thing.

Now the title is The World after Trump.

Seems like the world media is obsessed with this guy.

Markus

Because Trump sells newspapers. People tune into the news looking for Trump stories. Comedians need material for the opening monologues. This is big money. One loses their main attraction are the same one's losing money. The will ride this as long as they can. I mean honestly, is knowing what flavor of ice cream Joe Biden likes that exciting? Nope.

[bstanko6]

Amazing!

Now California opened up from COVID stay at home orders!

When Trump was in, New York and California were damn near crying about a zombie apocalypse!!

As soon as Trump leaves... everything is good?

Waiting for the anti-Trumpers to give there bull**** response in 3... 2... 1... go!

[MaDef]

I get what you're saying - the fact is that dominion is the end result is multiple mergers, acquisitions, spinoffs, and divestitures of basis companies. Its next to impossible for most people to keep track of.

It's not a difficult trail to follow. The company was founded in 2002 in Canada. Over the years it acquired a couple of other voting machine companies, and in 2018 was sold to a private equity firm.

[Catfish]

And because Rudy Giuiano accused said company of "voting fraud" without having any evidence, by using a viral desinformation campaign trying to erode public trust in the election system, he is now being sued, and not only by said company. As a lawyer, he will understand this :03:

[bstanko6]

His evidence was the machine the courts refused to get a warrant to inspect.

Now that they are suing, they produce a machine several months after the fact.

That’s like a detective accusing you of shooting someone, asks for the gun, but you say no....

Then several years later you sue, after you clean the gun of all ballistic evidence!

Trump haters respond with unrealistic response about how the election wasn’t fraudulent in 3... 2... 1... go!

[Catfish]

^ Lies and more lies.

Giuliani did not produce a believable doubt or any evidence, so of course the court refused. To go to court and have your case inspected, you need to provide at least some believable stuff, but he did not have any apart from playing Trump's lickspittle.

If it were done that way any citizen could accuse anyone he does not like and tell the courts to accuse without presenting evidence. This is not how justice works.

If you are a police officer as you said you were (what i meanwhile doubt), i foresee a very short career.

[AVGWarhawk]

Amazing!

Now California opened up from COVID stay at home orders!

When Trump was in, New York and California were damn near crying about a zombie apocalypse!!

As soon as Trump leaves... everything is good?

Waiting for the anti-Trumpers to give there bull**** response in 3... 2... 1... go!

If I'm not mistaken the trending up of new cases(from the holidays) has started coming down. I think there is truth to the matter that families gathering do spread the virus.

However, I do think it is time to start living with the virus instead of hiding at home. Everyday activity is a risk for getting sick, accident in a car or slipping in the shower yet we go about our business. This virus is not going away. It is time to start living with it. Accept the risk. We have done so with flu for decades.

[Buddahaid]

If I'm not mistaken the trending up of new cases(from the holidays) has started coming down. I think there is truth to the matter that families gathering do spread the virus.

However, I do think it is time to start living with the virus instead of hiding at home. Everyday activity is a risk for getting sick, accident in a car or slipping in the shower yet we go about our business. This virus is not going away. It is time to start living with it. Accept the risk. We have done so with flu for decades.

I almost agree but I would want a much higher level of vaccines given and hope we can hold out a few more months. Getting through the winter of 2021 is a known hurdle for nine months or so now.

Newsome's loosening of the lockdown before meeting the ICU bed target levels is apparently in repose to a recall petition that's gained a lot of ground.

[AVGWarhawk]

I almost agree but I would want a much higher level of vaccines given and hope we can hold out a few more months. Getting through the winter of 2021 is a known hurdle for nine months or so now.

Newsome's loosening of the lockdown before meeting the ICU bed target levels is apparently in repose to a recall petition that's gained a lot of ground.

The new cases are trending down even with winter upon the country. Winter appears to be less of a hurdle than keeping gatherings(family/bars) at a minimum. In my state, the #1 cause of spreading is family gathering. #5 on the list is restaurants. Closing restaurants for 5 weeks during the holidays(in my county) was successfully challenged as the science was there that restaurant closing is helpful. Restaurants were permitted to have 50% capacity. Complete shutdown of restaurants is not that helpful against the spread(IMO).

At any rate, it is long overdue in learning to live with the virus. We can't hide indefinitely.

[bstanko6]

The Pandemic was rigged just like the election so they can blame Trump, it’s called a false flag campaign you could walk outside now and not worry.

People that hate America because of Trump respond in 3... 2... 1... go!

[AVGWarhawk]

The Pandemic was rigged just like the election so they can blame Trump, it’s called a false flag campaign you could walk outside now and not worry.

People that hate America because of Trump respond in 3... 2... 1... go!

That may be believable however, how do you explain the COVID virus around the world affecting millions of people who for a lack of a better sentence, could care any less about Trump and an election?

[mapuc]

Which also makes me wonder. How could this be archived when almost every country in the west has an independent free media-It's not like we live in a country like North Korea-where the state decide what you are allowed to read.

Oh manner-I think it would be any American journalist biggest dream to get the pulitzer price if they could smell a big story behind the Corona.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

The Pandemic was rigged just like the election so they can blame Trump, it’s called a false flag campaign you could walk outside now and not worry.

People that hate America because of Trump respond in 3... 2... 1... go!

As the Senior Moderator around these parts I'd politely ask members not to respond to what imo is borderline clickbait.

This thread and said contents is constantly under review.

[bstanko6]

Jimbuna...

I understand that. But isn’t anything politics related clickbait?

You must risk being offensive in order to think - Jordan Peterson

[Jimbuna]

My one concern is that any responses turn the heat up on this thread and lead to remedial action measures....we'll see what if anything transpires.

[bstanko6]

I wouldn’t want to see anyone be disciplined.

As a suggestion, and in light of the new USA policy of anti free speech...

May I suggest this thread be take. Down?

Just a suggestion.

[Onkel Neal]

We aren't taking the thread down, but we would like to see a little more deliberate thought put into the replies. If a member seems to post solely to provoke others, it's not what we consider productive discussion.

[Bilge_Rat]

https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/cb012621dAPR20210125094505.jpg

how about a cartoon...

[Rockstar]

Bstanko, Its probably safe to say nobody here, there, or anywhere knows if any election is ever on the up and up in every state where disputes are raised. We like to think we do but lets face it the general population just doesn't know one way or the other.

But this system has prevailed for almost 250 years to give us a peaceful transitions of power, its unlike any other in the world. We must have faith in this system and its institutions. That same kind of faith when we dont have a damn clue how to fly a plane yet place our trust in a pilot and aircraft we know nothing about that gets us to our destination safely. It's been official for several weeks now, Trump lost the election. Like Nixon and Kennedy in Illinois or Al Gore and Bush in Florida. He should have been civic minded enough to concede and step down gracefully in order to preserve the faith people have in our institutions.


Now, even though I dont think him responsible for the actions of those who became violent in D.C.. And even though I believe he and others had the constitutional right to peaceably assemble and have their voices heard. I do see as our greatest threat to democracy those who continue to spread doubt and weaken our faith in a system that has preserved our country a lot longer than any of us have been alive.

[August]

We must have faith in this system and its institutions.


I have plenty of faith in the system and it's institutions, the people running them on the other hand, I have absolutely no trust at all.

Our system of voting used to work pretty good but now with electronic voting machines, mail in voting, unsupervised drop boxes and the outright ignoring of voting laws and regulations, it has become vulnerable to large scale manipulation.

The constant shouting down of everyone who testifies to witnessing it or even just thinks there may be some flames behind all the obvious smoke just proves to me that there is something to it.

The last thing we should do is shut up and take it for the good of the country as you suggest. As long as this is not fixed we don't have a country, we have an banana dictatorship and with troops patrolling the streets and the increasingly severe civil liberty crackdowns it's looking more and more like one too.

The time to fight that is now because it will just get more difficult as they cement their hold on power.

[August]

Rand Paul doesn't mince words here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_FMtOImgZ4&feature=emb_logo

[Sonicfire1981]

Now, even though I dont think him responsible for the actions of those who became violent in D.C.. [...]

Make no mistake; your ex-president and his entourage are to be held responsible. Vocabulary like "we march to the capitol, I'll be right there with you.." (that was a lie - guess who said that), "the trial by combat", "the republicans who are not with us - we're coming to get you" amidst a heated crowd - that's playing with matchsticks in the middle of an oil field (not a perfect picture - the situation was more flammable than that).
Even if your former president lacked the insight of how violent some of his followers were (which I doubt, since he's the greatest president ever and knows about crouds, right?) - he has one of the best agencies of the world at his disposal. (Put another way: he's not some weird uncle who says odd things occasionally and can't be taken too seriously).
What would have happened if the mob, chanting "hang mike pence" actually found mike pence? and why did they want to do that? Your former president simply announced that he must, because it was in his power, stop the election, when his job was really only to announce the outcome of the vote. That's a bit like demanding Faye Dunaway's head because she announced the oscar went to "LaLa Land" (which is again an unideal picture, as Lala Land wasn't the actual winner).

German democracy knows a thing or two about how easily it is lost, so believe me that your democracy was - and still is - in great danger;
if the march on the capitol was not a powergrab (which I doubt, since without the military on your side, you have little hope of succeding), then it was an intimidation. One that did not work to bad on some senators. This man is trying to overcome the division of power (which becomes evident when you witness how p**sed he was as supreme court would back him although they owed him the position). He's dividing your populace in "us" and "them", he's condemning the media who's not on his side (even fox as soon as they begin to start asking questions), he is empowering law & order, not halting at death sentence. he's undermining your voting system. and the list goes on and who would think that these are good things?

I do ask forgiveness from @neil and @akktung, but, from a neutral party, this must be understood or dire consequences faced.

[August]

Make no mistake; your ex-president and his entourage are to be held responsible.


No they won't. This latest partisan attempt will fail just like all the others have.

[Buddahaid]

Very likely but I'll just wait and see.

I'm curious why you dumped your NE patriots sig?

[Sonicfire1981]

No they won't. This latest partisan attempt will fail just like all the others have.

Of course, because intimidation works. I also agree that impeachment is not ideal, but I would want to consult legal professionals how this interacts with "real world" criminal charges.
And you can't let it stand. You wouldn't let a burglar, armed to the teeth and a knife raised at your sleeping wife's throat go free, just because you walked in on him and he fled the scene.

Also: is this all you have to say to this?

[3catcircus]

I have plenty of faith in the system and it's institutions, the people running them on the other hand, I have absolutely no trust at all.

Our system of voting used to work pretty good but now with electronic voting machines, mail in voting, unsupervised drop boxes and the outright ignoring of voting laws and regulations, it has become vulnerable to large scale manipulation.

The constant shouting down of everyone who testifies to witnessing it or even just thinks there may be some flames behind all the obvious smoke just proves to me that there is something to it.

The last thing we should do is shut up and take it for the good of the country as you suggest. As long as this is not fixed we don't have a country, we have an banana dictatorship and with troops patrolling the streets and the increasingly severe civil liberty crackdowns it's looking more and more like one too.

The time to fight that is now because it will just get more difficult as they cement their hold on power.

This.

There has been too much coincidence regarding the recent election as it pertains to alleged irregularities. Whether there is truth to the claims it not, it all should have been allowed to be presented in court as evidence. By throwing out cases before they even get to court due to "lack of standing," or rulings that procedurals weren't followed (e.g. filed too soon or filed too late), all it does is fuel conspiracy theories and rumors - which resulted in what happened on the 6th.

I tend to believe that there *were* irregularities that were swept under the rug by sympathetic authorities (or threatened authorities) since the type of people who want to be elected to high office or appointed to positions of power are the type of people who are willing to cheat to get there.

Would the irregularities have affected the outcome? We'll never know until the people running the system are removed and honest people put in their place. The hurdle is being able to get people elected or appointed who are honest...

It isn't our form of government that is the problem - it's the corrupt people who've perverted it for their own benefit.

And it isn't just politics. The was the recent case of cadets getting caught cheating at West Point. In years past, they would have suffered the disgrace that goes along with the honor system there - leading to bring kicked out. Instead, in the most recent incident, the chief of staff downplays it because most of them were freshman. Yeah, and? Even as freshman they're supposed to know what the honor code means because it is so simple - don't lie, cheat, or steal and don't tolerate anyone else doing it.

Imagine how much better our government would be if the sergeant at arms were allowed to apply such an honor system to congresspersons?

[bstanko6]

@rockstar...

I agree to a point about having faith in the system.

We had faith in our police officers once... but that is gone and we now have body cameras which is a good thing.

We had faith in church, but sexual abuse tossed that away!

We had faith In Judges, now they are monitored through transparency programs.

Faith is dead. The world wants transparency. And the election process is no exception.

The people have a right to examine the election process in every single aspect. We were told no.

The people wanted evidence looked at but were told no.

Under no circumstances should any part of the election process be barred from examination.

You say have faith... never in a million years.

Hayes got his investigation, Gore got his... Trump? Nah! Have faith they say.

Never in a million years.

If we can be examined by the government, and facially examined, GPS tracked, and tracked by toll road, taxes, and even what shows I watch on my phone...

I can examine the one and only thing that makes our democracy legit.

[Reece]

We had faith in church, but sexual abuse tossed that away!
Damn that's bad!! Care to say what denomination? :hmmm:

[Sonicfire1981]

Re election fraud:

There have been a couple dozen lawsuits , all leading nowhere because Guiliani, Powell and the like failed to present evidence of fraud. If they had it and did not present it... well, I believe in your culture you also have the freedom to choose your own lawyer. If the courts chose to ignore it, because all bought by liberals (?) - where is the evidence now?
Where is the huge pile of evidence that Kayleigh McEnany waved into Fox News' Camera? All she would have had to do is open the file and present a page or five. But it was just a huge stack of paper.
How come Guiliani never used the word "fraud" inside a courtroom?

Do you really think it's plausible that there's a whistleblower in Bidens Campaign team to tell us about the earpiece, the dementia, the diapers, while on the other hand democrats are able to suppress evidence of "biblical proportions"? Suppress it not only in leftwing us-media like cnn, etc, not only in all of US Media (including, I believe, OAN, because even they failed to back these claims) - but in all of world press, from Argentina to Switzerland, Australia to Nepal? They even suppressed in on Parler? Even suppressed it on every private homepage of every QAnonConspiracy theorist?

Is that plausible? Not even Tucker Carlson believes this, and he wants to believe... Or would it not be more plausible to repeat *baseless* claims in the hopes to find some thousands gullible enough to believe it? If those are armed and violent (which often goes hand in hand - even better.

EDIT: I forgot to mention - the pro-Trump DoJ could not find anything

[Catfish]

^ Again: Stop making sense. This the US politics thread!! :D:O:

Read his morning that an impeachment is unlikely – while some republicans supported it, the majority did not.
Argument is that a president can only be impeached as long as he is president, and Trump is not anymore.
Since a call for armed rebellion is something also a civilian can be accused for, most judges of the constitution see this differently, but whatever.

Now that "he who must not be named" obviously founds a new "patriot" party i guess the republicans will lose a lot of votes to him.

[Skybird]

Stupid Republicans will pay a high price for their shortsighted opportunism thta makes them rejecting to breakl with Biden'S predecssor . It will lead to the division of the party, with the former Republicans loosing it to the newly dominating orange legion.

Good for the Democrats and their left wing. Divide et impera.

And the US' once dominance in the world? Will go the way of the British empire. With respectability and trustworthiness gone, nobody will dare to invest his complete future into it anymnore.

The next major defeat probably could be delivered via the US dollar. Europe and the Euro will suffer dearly from that, too, the Euro will go the way of the Dodo, too.

[3catcircus]

Re election fraud:

There have been a couple dozen lawsuits , all leading nowhere because Guiliani, Powell and the like failed to present evidence of fraud. If they had it and did not present it... well, I believe in your culture you also have the freedom to choose your own lawyer. If the courts chose to ignore it, because all bought by liberals (?) - where is the evidence now?
Where is the huge pile of evidence that Kayleigh McEnany waved into Fox News' Camera? All she would have had to do is open the file and present a page or five. But it was just a huge stack of paper.
How come Guiliani never used the word "fraud" inside a courtroom?

Do you really think it's plausible that there's a whistleblower in Bidens Campaign team to tell us about the earpiece, the dementia, the diapers, while on the other hand democrats are able to suppress evidence of "biblical proportions"? Suppress it not only in leftwing us-media like cnn, etc, not only in all of US Media (including, I believe, OAN, because even they failed to back these claims) - but in all of world press, from Argentina to Switzerland, Australia to Nepal? They even suppressed in on Parler? Even suppressed it on every private homepage of every QAnonConspiracy theorist?

Is that plausible? Not even Tucker Carlson believes this, and he wants to believe... Or would it not be more plausible to repeat *baseless* claims in the hopes to find some thousands gullible enough to believe it? If those are armed and violent (which often goes hand in hand - even better.

EDIT: I forgot to mention - the pro-Trump DoJ could not find anything

Evidence was not allowed to be presented due to *procedural* issues - not the quality of the evidence itself.

By that - I mean that a judge can say "we aren't allowing this to go to a trial because you filed your case too late." Or ... you filed your case too soon," or "You can't file a lawsuit because only this one particular official in that state can file it."

The issue here is that no evidence was allowed to be presented in almost every case - because it opens up such a pandora's box of exposing shenanigans, errors, mistakes, or defects within the voting system itself.

[u crank]

Since a call for armed rebellion is something also a civilian can be accused for, most judges of the constitution see this differently, but whatever.

To convict someone in a court of law, not the Senate, you need evidence. Everything that Trump said in public as President has been recorded. Can you find any instance where Trump called for armed rebellion? Or for his followers to storm the Capital, damage property and fight with security? Without conclusive evidence, in other words, his actual words saying it, there wouldn't be much of a case.

[Sonicfire1981]

The issue here is that no evidence was allowed to be presented in almost every case - because it opens up such a pandora's box of exposing shenanigans, errors, mistakes, or defects within the voting system itself.

Hence my question: where is it then?

[Buddahaid]

Evidence was not allowed to be presented due to *procedural* issues - not the quality of the evidence itself.

By that - I mean that a judge can say "we aren't allowing this to go to a trial because you filed your case too late." Or ... you filed your case too soon," or "You can't file a lawsuit because only this one particular official in that state can file it."

The issue here is that no evidence was allowed to be presented in almost every case - because it opens up such a pandora's box of exposing shenanigans, errors, mistakes, or defects within the voting system itself.

That looks to be the case in general terms but due process still needs to be followed hence the results. I don't see any reference to the contents of Pandora's box but it's just Wikipedia and I'm not going to become a lawyer and try to slog through all the proceedings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_United_State s_presidential_election

[Sonicfire1981]

To convict someone in a court of law, not the Senate, you need evidence. Everything that Trump said in public as President has been recorded. Can you find any instance where Trump called for armed rebellion? Or for his followers to storm the Capital, damage property and fight with security? Without conclusive evidence, in other words, his actual words saying it, there wouldn't be much of a case.

Yes you can. read my post, if you may. I'll repeat the important parts: "We'll march to the capital, I'll be there with you...", "these people here are not taking it any longer...", "you have to show strength...", "our country has had enough..." "you have to get your people to fight" SIC! "We have to get rid of the weak congress-people..." "it is time that somebody did something about it...", "we have it deep in our souls, and we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore." That was some quotes of the (n/sh)ameless.
For giggles: "Lets have trial by combat!" (R. Guliani on the same stage)
“We’re coming for you,” (Don Jr. towards republicans that we're not supporting the now-ex-president.

[Rockstar]

Yes you can. read my post, if you may. I'll repeat the important parts: "We'll march to the capital, I'll be there with you...", "these people here are not taking it any longer...", "you have to show strength...", "our country has had enough..." "you have to get your people to fight" SIC! "We have to get rid of the weak congress-people..." "it is time that somebody did something about it...", "we have it deep in our souls, and we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore." That was some quotes of the (n/sh)ameless.
For giggles: "Lets have trial by combat!" (R. Guliani on the same stage)
“We’re coming for you,” (Don Jr. towards republicans that we're not supporting the now-ex-president.


Here's the problem you have pushing that as a reason why a handful of people did what they did. First, as someone living in this country those words did not in any way influence me and a tremendous number of others in this country to even think about becoming destructive. Second you have not identified nor interrogated anyone involved therefore its impossible for you too know why they did what they did. You can only assume and your assumptions are based on what your favorite media source feeds you that gets regurgitated here.

[Sonicfire1981]

Here's the problem you have pushing that as a reason why a handful of people did what they did. First, as someone living in this country those words did not in any way influence me and a tremendous number of others in this country to even think about becoming destructive. Second you have not identified nor interrogated anyone involved therefore its impossible for you too know why they did what they did. You can only assume and your assumptions are based on what your favorite media source feeds you that gets regurgitated here.

i wrote about that already, too

[mapuc]

It's your country= your laws

As an outsider - It is weird to see an elected person can go free-because s/he has party friends in the Congress or Senate.

It looks like the former President will not get a verdict after all-Seems there's not enough Rep. to support this.

From what I have read and heard in the news here after Jan. 6. The Former President has encouraged his followers to demonstrate near Capitol Hill.

I can't say if he has said-that they should directly or indirectly "invade" the Capitol

Markus

[u crank]

"We'll march to the capital, I'll be there with you...", "these people here are not taking it any longer...", "you have to show strength...", "our country has had enough..." "you have to get your people to fight" SIC! "We have to get rid of the weak congress-people..." "it is time that somebody did something about it...", "we have it deep in our souls, and we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore."

Sorry but there is not a word in those quotes about a specific call for violence. Not a word about armed rebellion or a call to damage property. A first year law student could get Trump acquitted if the charges were not thrown out in the preliminary hearing. Politicians say things like that and worse all the time.

[Buddahaid]

The US uses the word "fight" for everything so in and of itself it can't be taken literally. Help fight cancer. Help fight poverty, etc. Personally I wish that was changed to more positive wording like help cure cancer or help overcome poverty but it is very ingrained now. Everything seems to be a fight rather than a constructive effort.

[Rockstar]

Lets not forget the WAR on poverty, the WAR on drugs, the WAR on gangs, the WAR on terror, the WAR on decaf coffee.

[Aktungbby]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/first-amendment-regulation/617827/ :hmmm:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Torvald,

The Torsk Restoration folks basically disbanded 10 years ago. The people who oversee the inner harbor never liked the Torsk and was opposed to having people onboard restoring her on any given Saturday morning. Money and politics, etc. I have not crossed the Torsk's deck for close a decade now. I have no idea how she is fairing. At any rate, behind the scene bilge water drinking is no longer.

O....M....G

Has it really been that long?

[Buddahaid]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/first-amendment-regulation/617827/ :hmmm:

The concluding paragraphs are worth posting.

"All of which is to say that the debate about free speech on social media should not be viewed primarily as a debate about whether the social-media companies violated Trump’s freedom of speech when they banned him, or whether they violate anyone else’s freedom of speech when they make thousands of similar decisions every day. Instead, it should be viewed primarily as a debate about what freedom of speech means on social media, and, perhaps most importantly, about who gets to decide—courts, corporations, or legislatures. That liberals and conservatives have switched perspectives on these questions in recent years reflects the extraordinary political fluidity, and perhaps possibility, of the current moment.

However the political alignments work out, Trump’s deplatforming illuminated a basic insight worth keeping in mind: Private companies not only participate in the marketplace of ideas but also determine to a significant extent who else can participate in it. We should not take comfort in the fact that the speech-regulating decisions by Big Tech companies do not and cannot violate the First Amendment as it is currently understood. Conservatives are correct to be worried about the threat that the private platforms pose to freedom of speech, even if this makes them more like big-government liberals than they might be willing to acknowledge. Those big-government liberals should realize as much, and act accordingly."

[bstanko6]

For all of you who believe that no evidence was brought forward about re-election fraud...

We don’t need evidence brought up for anything! This is a problem that you’re not seeing. I am an American citizen can use the freedom of information act to gain access to anything my governor or police or state executives file or write up. I don’t need evidence to examine or investigate anything. If I want investigation into my election I should have it no questions asked.

[Rockstar]

For all of you who believe that no evidence was brought forward about re-election fraud...

We don’t need evidence brought up for anything! This is a problem that you’re not seeing. I am an American citizen can use the freedom of information act to gain access to anything my governor or police or state executives file or write up. I don’t need evidence to examine or investigate anything. If I want investigation into my election I should have it no questions asked.


You have every right to inquire. Might I suggest starting with Hillary Clinton and those like her who jumped on the bandwagon believing Russia altered the outcome of the 2016 election. After millions of dollars, abuse of power, and a global embarrassment caused by a politically motivated government boondoggle. I'm sure there has to be something. I heard Michael Cohen is ready to turn any day now.


Then ask the Trump campaign for the details of the evidence they have. So we can see it for ourselves. Should be easy. https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf. After a brief glossing over I didn't see evidence. Just plenty of alleged issues concerning procedure.

[bstanko6]

Rockstar...

Totally on your band wagon!

If the Dems can investigate fraud with no evidence, We can too. Until then Biden will be seated as a fraudulent president. if the Dems want to unify and heal, then answer to the other half of the country that hates them right now.

And we will not take a “c’mon man” as an answer.

[Rockstar]

Rockstar...

Totally on your band wagon!

If the Dems can investigate fraud with no evidence, We can too. Until then Biden will be seated as a fraudulent president. if the Dems want to unify and heal, then answer to the other half of the country that hates them right now.

And we will not take a “c’mon man” as an answer.




No, he is not seated as fraudulent president. Biden is the duly elected President of the United States of America. Just as Trump was in 2016.

[mapuc]

Does this mean that the elected politician in USA impeach a sitting President when they feel for it ?

I can't remember if former President was acquitted because there wasn't enough evidens or if it enough to judge him, but his colleague stood by their man in the Oval office.

Markus

[bstanko6]

That’s where I disagree with you Rockstar...

If you have half the country is saying he’s not duly elected, are you gonna tell that half the country to go pound sand? You don’t have a right to look into anything or investigate anything? That’s tyranny.

Don’t blind yourself friend. Demand answers. Always.

[August]

Does this mean that the elected politician in USA impeach a sitting President when they feel for it ?


If they have the votes for it in the House of Representatives the answer is yes. There does not need to be a valid reason. That's why the founders decided it should take 2/3rds of the Senate to convict.

[Rockstar]

If the Dems can investigate fraud with no evidence, We can too.


I'm sorry, it didn't make sense in 2016 and it doesn't in 2020.

[bstanko6]

Rockstar....

You are right it did not make sense.

19 minutes after inauguration Trumps impeachment papers are approved over an anonymous tip of Russian collusion! Investigation ensues.

No evidence!

Why can’t we have an expensive investigation into the election fraud?

We have no evidence (apparently).

Status quo for it!

[MaDef]

Yes you can. read my post, if you may. I'll repeat the important parts: "We'll march to the capital, I'll be there with you...", "these people here are not taking it any longer...", "you have to show strength...", "our country has had enough..." "you have to get your people to fight" SIC! "We have to get rid of the weak congress-people..." "it is time that somebody did something about it...", "we have it deep in our souls, and we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore." That was some quotes of the (n/sh)ameless.
For giggles: "Lets have trial by combat!" (R. Guliani on the same stage)
“We’re coming for you,” (Don Jr. towards republicans that we're not supporting the now-ex-president.

keep in mind context matters, especially if you're trying to show intent, which you need to do in a criminal case.

FYI, everything you've posted is covered under the First Amendment. No crime.

[Skybird]

Meanwhile in the contemporary present, the party that formerly was known as "the Republicans" turns more and more orange while wading deeper and deeper into His shadow.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/28/politics/donald-trump-republican-party/index.html

[Skybird]

And the orange legion still rejects to clearly distance itself from this creature, and to condemn its noise.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-faces-backlash-over-incendiary-social-n1255903

[Catfish]

^ If this read of Mrs Greene's "notes" is not an eye opener, i don't know what is :doh:

[Skybird]

If you mix green and orange, you get brown.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear there is a potential problem for the ex-president brewing closer to home.

The town of Palm Beach, Florida, is reviewing whether former president Donald Trump is allowed to live at Mar-a-Lago, after years of complaints from neighbours that he was violating a legal agreement he made with local authorities in 1993 when he converted the private residence into a private social club.

Mr Trump left Washington a week ago for the so-called Winter White House, where he apparently plans to live post-presidency. Palm Beach’s town manager Kirk Blouin told HuffPost that its lawyer is reviewing whether the former POTUS can remain at the club permanently.

In 1993, Mr Trump was beset with financial problems with his casinos and millions in upkeep required at Mar-a-Lago, which was then his private home, so agreed to a “special exception use” permit that allowed him to convert the estate into a social club.

The agreement laid out that it could only include 10 guest accommodations, where people stayed no longer than a week, no more than three times a year, a requirement the president repeatedly flouted before and during his presidency.

He also signed a deal with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, a private historical preservation organization, that “forever” forfeited rights to use Mar-a-Lago for “any purpose other than club use.”

Since then, Mr Trump’s neighbours have periodically complained about his antics, most recently in December when they sent him and the town a letter demanding he be told he can’t live there, to “avoid an embarrassing situation” where the former president has to be kicked off the premises.

“There’s absolutely no legal theory under which he can use that property as both a residence and a club,” Glenn Zeitz, a Palm Beach homeowner, told the Washington Post.

Previously, town residents have balked as the president clogged streets with his security entourage, failed to comply with local development rules on issues like the height of his massive flag pole, and tried to subdivide the property into residential homes.

Town authorities said the matter could come up in a town meeting in early February, but hadn’t made any findings yet.

The Mar-a-Lago fracas is one of the many legal issues facing the president now that he’s left office, ranging from fraud investigations to a historic second impeachment trial.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/palm-beach-reviewing-whether-trump-can-live-at-mar-a-lago-after-years-of-complaints/ar-BB1d9yln?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAnZ9Ug

[AVGWarhawk]

It would appear there is a potential problem for the ex-president brewing closer to home.

He got a permit from the city. Can't fight city hall. Good luck to the neighbors. Well, they can always move as well. :doh:

[3catcircus]

Here's the problem you have pushing that as a reason why a handful of people did what they did. First, as someone living in this country those words did not in any way influence me and a tremendous number of others in this country to even think about becoming destructive. Second you have not identified nor interrogated anyone involved therefore its impossible for you too know why they did what they did. You can only assume and your assumptions are based on what your favorite media source feeds you that gets regurgitated here.

More importantly, the quotes he used are in isolation. You have to hear the entire speech from Trump to understand the context which makes it abundantly clear that at no point did he call for people to engage in violence. I don't see anywhere in any of the below (where I've added the rest of the quote for actual context) any calls for people to vandalize the capitol or assault people...

"Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. Today I will lay out just some of the evidence proving that we won this election, and we won it by a landslide. This was not a close election."

"Rudy, you did a great job. He’s got guts. You know what? He’s got guts, unlike a lot of people in the Republican party. He’s got guts, he fights. He fights, and I’ll tell you. "

"We want to go back, and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed, and we’re not going to stand for that."

"For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans, and that’s what they are. There’s so many weak Republicans. We have great ones, Jim Jordan, and some of these guys. They’re out there fighting the House. Guys are fighting, but it’s incredible."

"Unbelievable, what we have to go through, what we have to go through and you have to get your people to fight. If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to let you know who they are. I can already tell you, frankly."

"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people."

"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period. We’ve set it on a much straighter course, a much … I thought four more years. I thought it would be easy."

"Today, we see a very important event though, because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching, because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they’ll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget. With only three of the seven states in question, we win the presidency of the United States."

"I want to thank the more than 140 members of the House. Those are warriors. They’re over there working like you’ve never seen before, studying, talking, actually going all the way back, studying the roots of the Constitution, because they know we have the right to send a bad vote that was illegally got, they gave these people bad things to vote for and they voted, because what did they know?"

"But it used to be that they’d argue with me, I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight. I’d fight, they’d fight. Boop-boop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out. They had their point of view, I had my point of view. But you’d have an argument. Now what they do is they go silent. It’s called suppression. And that’s what happens in a communist country. That’s what they do. They suppress. You don’t fight with them anymore, unless it’s a bad. They have a little bad story about me, they’ll make it 10 times worse and it’s a major headline. But Hunter Biden, they don’t talk about him. What happened to Hunter? Where’s Hunter? Where is Hunter? They don’t talk about him."

"Look, I’m not happy with the Supreme Court. They love to rule against me. I picked three people. I fought like hell for them, one in particular I fought. They all said, “Sir, cut him loose. He’s killing us.” The senators, very loyal senators. They’re very loyal people. “Sir, cut him loose. He’s killing us, sir. Cut him loose, sir.” I must’ve gotten half of the senators. I said, “No, I can’t do that. It’s unfair to him. And it’s unfair to the family. He didn’t do anything wrong. They’re made up stories.” They were all made up stories. He didn’t do anything wrong. “Cut him loose, sir.” I said, “No, I won’t do that.” We got him through. And you know what? They couldn’t give a damn. They couldn’t give a damn. Let them rule the right way, but it almost seems that they’re all going out of their way to hurt all of us, and to hurt our country. To hurt our country."

"Our brightest days are before us, our greatest achievements still wait. I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore."

"So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country."

[AVGWarhawk]

More importantly, the quotes he used are in isolation. You have to hear the entire speech from Trump to understand the context which makes it abundantly clear that at no point did he call for people to engage in violence.

But if all(dingbats on Capitol Hill) keep saying he did incite a riot due to his speech then it becomes true in their minds. It is another form of mob mentality.

[Skybird]

But if all(dingbats on Capitol Hill) keep saying he did incite a riot due to his speech then it becomes true in their minds. It is another form of mob mentality.
That comment form you renminds of the Chinese emperor Xi who recently expressed concerns about the censorship and lack of free speech in the US due to the Twitter and Facebook ban against Biden's predecessor.

He is really very concerned bout the state of free speech in the world. :03:

[Buddahaid]

If the 'dingbats that broke into capital hill' are called as witnesses what do you suppose they will say?

[u crank]

If the 'dingbats that broke into capital hill' are called as witnesses what do you suppose they will say?

Hard to say but it would have to be offset by the thousands of people who heard the exact same thing and didn't do what the 'dingbats' did. Their take on Trump's speech would be just as relevant.

[bstanko6]

You it’s fraud when Biden gets more votes than Obama without campaigning!

https://youtu.be/gA5HXsoAOV8

[Mr Quatro]

I think it will become quite apparent that this is an attempt to destroy the GOP
having any chance of making a comeback with Trump.

The legal challenges that you can't impeach a POTUS after he has already left office
should stand on the first day of the trial and result in a mistrial if that is possible to
send it back to the US Congressmen to substitute censure for impeachment :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

If the 'dingbats that broke into capital hill' are called as witnesses what do you suppose they will say?


The dingbats will not be called as witnesses. First, these idiots have been arrested. Their current status makes them unreliable as witnesses. Further, throwing Trump under the bus will not help their own case. Highly unlikely any will be called to be a witness.

[AVGWarhawk]

That comment form you renminds of the Chinese emperor Xi who recently expressed concerns about the censorship and lack of free speech in the US due to the Twitter and Facebook ban against Biden's predecessor.

He is really very concerned bout the state of free speech in the world. :03:

OJ Simpon still believes he is innocent. He must be because he kept saying he is.

[Mr Quatro]

The dingbats will not be called as witnesses. First, these idiots have been arrested. They are unreliable as witnesses. Further, throwing Trump under the bus will not help their own case.

Have you noticed that Trumps trial is starting before the trials of the ones that broke into the Capitol?

So much for due process :oops:

[mapuc]

You it’s fraud when Biden gets more votes than Obama without campaigning

Well as seen from one outside USA I can only say-that Biden didn't have to campaigning-Former President did very well in his effort to get defeated in the National election.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Their is the issue of responsibility for ones own action. "The devil made me do it" isn't a defense. Unless of course mental illness is found to be a factor then all it proves is that they truly are dingbats.

Then there's the dingbats who think a U.S. President can rule by edict or decree and prevent the spread of COVID. Its just dingbats accusing other dingbats of being dingbats.

[AVGWarhawk]

Have you noticed that Trumps trial is starting before the trials of the ones that broke into the Capitol?

So much for due process :oops:

Understand this is a diversion. Will Capitol Hill continues to talk impeachment the president is busy running off executive orders without much challenge.

[Buddahaid]

Have you noticed that Trumps trial is starting before the trials of the ones that broke into the Capitol?

So much for due process :oops:

You are witnessing due process.

[AVGWarhawk]

Then their is the issue of responsibility for ones own action. "The devil made me do it" isn't a defense. Unless of course mental illness is found to be a factor then all it proves is that they truly are dingbats.

Then there's the dingbats who think a U.S. President can rule by edict or decree and prevent the spread of COVID. Its just dingbats accusing other dingbats of being dingbats.

That is a lot of dingbats. However, back to the mental illness. QAnon. Enough said.

[AVGWarhawk]

You are witnessing due process.

But I think the process is being held in the wrong building and the use of the word impeachment is incorrect. Trump is a civilian. Criminal court and conviction.

[Buddahaid]

But I think the process is being held in the wrong building and the use of the word impeachment is incorrect. Trump is a civilian. Criminal court and conviction.

I don't think that is all that clear.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-former-president-be-impeached-and-convicted

[Rockstar]

Don't expect protections of due process in a Senate impeachment trial.

Impeachment is a political process not a legal one. Since its not a criminal trial protections of due process are NOT a part of the show. All the Senate needs is a majority vote to remove a person from office or prevent the person from holding office in the future. If the accused is voted out he is then banished from the kingdom and from the protections his former office afforded him and left to the wolves out side the gate. THEN and only then may criminal prosecution be brought against the former official for which he was impeached. THEN and only then do the protections of due process apply.