US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Onkel Neal]

What do you expect when the Democrats judicial system is modeled after Fish and Wildlife’s catch and release program? Catch a criminal, release a criminal. He’s just doing what criminals do, he should have been jail. Do police in California always offer $2,000 rewards or does this have something to do with white privilege liberals and snowflakes been crying about?


Oh, white liberal privilege, no doubt. If you or I had been robbed, the police world have simply said "Thank you for filling out a report" and that would have been the end of it.

I think the crook should turn himself in and collect the $2000 reward. Then he could skip out of jail on a no bail and continue on in time for the next BLM looting spree.

[3catcircus]

This is one of many reason to why I do not believe anything anymore.

I have decided to believe Corona does exist and I shall follow our authorities restriction...

Otherwise I have no education in these fields and can therefore not say what's correct and what's incorrect.

I believe in myself and my cat.

Markus

Mostly just the cat...

One does not need to be a subject matter expert to be able to apply logic and reason - skills that are all but a lost art amongst those who rely on curated Google search results and Wikipedia as authoritative sources and who consider the news media as information rather than entertainment.

[Dowly]

So, can we then agree that the WSJ news media opinion piece you posted was just entertainment? :)

[August]

Shine on, you crazy diamond...


Don't hold your breath for an answer. I don't think Catfish will reply. Using the ChiComs as a source would be like relying on the word of Al Capone that he had nothing to do with the St. Valentines Day Massacre. Indefensible.

[August]

I believe in myself and my cat.

Markus


You can believe in dogs too. They have little or no capacity for guile.

[AVGWarhawk]

You can believe in dogs too. They have little or no capacity for guile.

Plus, they are mans best friend after all. Truly.

[Catfish]

When feelings are so strong they become facts, i have no idea how to get someone back who is so far out. Not with facts anyway.

[3catcircus]

So, can we then agree that the WSJ news media opinion piece you posted was just entertainment? :)

Absolutely. The paper the opinion piece was based upon, that's a different story.

On first and 2nd read through, the bayesian analysis looks pretty solid.

[3catcircus]

You can believe in dogs too. They have little or no capacity for guile.

I recently read that dogs can sense when someone is lying.

Don't know how true it is, but every time I go to give our pup her monthly heartworm meds, no matter what ruse; whatever cunning attempt to deceive her, she knows and runs and hides.

[Skybird]

When feelings are so strong they become facts, i have no idea how to get someone back who is so far out. Not with facts anyway.
Give him a hug, and keep on hugging him. Let him know how deep your love for him is. He sooner or later collapses due to exhaustion from carrying you around his neck. Then you can drag him back home by the feet. :D

[Skybird]

I can only shake my head over this much self-prescribed naivety on the US (and European) side.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/why-did-china-buy-airstrip-texas

[mapuc]

I will tell you that there is a connection between facts and feeling.

Let use me as an example. It was in the end of the 80's I was watching the news where they were broadcasting from UN where a young woman from Kuwait told us how Iraqi soldiers killed newborn children.

With these fact laid in front of me I became very sad.

Later I learned that it was a set-up and I learned my lesson.

So feelings is very much part of what people believe.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

I recently read that dogs can sense when someone is lying.

Don't know how true it is, but every time I go to give our pup her monthly heartworm meds, no matter what ruse; whatever cunning attempt to deceive her, she knows and runs and hides.

Because the pup can smell the pill which is probably bitter.

[Rockstar]

Because the pup can smell the pill which is probably bitter.

Or, just like those two hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional beings Frankie and Benjy. Your dog could be testing you.

You never know. :hmmm::yep:

[3catcircus]

Because the pup can smell the pill which is probably bitter.

That would be true - if it weren't for the fact that I haven't even opened it yet when she runs...

Nope - as Rockstar alluded to - the combination of poodle and lab makes her just about as bad as a sailor - cunning and devious and bearing close watching at all times...

She knows *exactly* what she's doing, which always ends with throwing it down her throat and holding her mouth shut while massaging her throat - while she makes a big production of hacking and gagging as if we're trying to poison her. Followed by scarfing down the turkey lunch meat, or pepperoni or cheese or peanut butter we've tried to hide it in...

[3catcircus]

I will tell you that there is a connection between facts and feeling.

Let use me as an example. It was in the end of the 80's I was watching the news where they were broadcasting from UN where a young woman from Kuwait told us how Iraqi soldiers killed newborn children.

With these fact laid in front of me I became very sad.

Later I learned that it was a set-up and I learned my lesson.

So feelings is very much part of what people believe.

Markus

Unfortunately most people react based upon emotion rather than logic, so it becomes easy to manipulate them. When those with the ability to respond rationally question the basis of a narrative presented as fact, it all too often results in claims of conspiracy or quackery or any of a number of ad hominems.

[Dowly]

Absolutely. The paper the opinion piece was based upon, that's a different story.

On first and 2nd read through, the bayesian analysis looks pretty solid.The paper is very much an opinion piece as well. His evidence and the weight he gives each is completely arbitrary.

[Buddahaid]

Unfortunately most people react based upon emotion rather than logic, so it becomes easy to manipulate them. When those with the ability to respond rationally question the basis of a narrative presented as fact, it all too often results in claims of conspiracy or quackery or any of a number of ad hominems.

So what about this bullcrap from Clyde. I don't see how he can say that and keep a straight face.
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2021/01/14/trump-supporters-break-windows-9753a68c50d852fc8e6236c0b6d32b88a7762e39-s800-c85.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHryghzKks

[MaDef]

Having seen what happened in Seattle, Portland, Denver, LA, New York, Milwaukee and Minneapolis last summer (just to name a few of the larger "protests") with the outspoken support of some very prominent politicians. And now to watch those same politicians call the protest on Jan 6th an "insurrection" leaves me non-pulsed as to what those jackasses in DC are doing.

[Catfish]

^ I take it the protests against police brutality (killing of Floyd) were not intended to overthrow the government or to kill anyone, let alone the (then) vice president Pence?

"[I] Racial unrest, Polls have estimated that between 15 million and 26 million people have participated at some point in the demonstrations in the United States, making them the largest protests in United States history.

It was also estimated that between May 26 and August 22, around 93% of protests were "peaceful and nondestructive". According to several studies and analyses, protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful.

In protests that involved violence, violence was variously instigated by protesters, counter-protesters, or police, and police sometimes escalated confrontations."

[Rockstar]

So what about this bullcrap from Clyde. I don't see how he can say that and keep a straight face.

Hate to break it to you. It is not an insurrection until someone is charged and found guilty of it.

[Buddahaid]

Close enough by definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurrection

[Rockstar]

Close enough by definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurrection


Then I can only strongly suggest you run to D.C. as fast as you can with your Merriam Webster dictionary and enlighten the courts, and prosecutors with your findings.

[Buddahaid]

Then I can only strongly suggest you run to D.C. as fast as you can with your Merriam Webster dictionary and enlighten the courts, and prosecutors with your findings.

Looks like they could use it.

[Rockstar]

You should already know my opinion on this. Each man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Agree or not with the reasons everyone had a right to be there and to peaceful protest. Those that are found guilty of breaking the law MUST be punished to it’s fullest extent. However it’s my opinion this committee is of no real use whatsoever to ‘we the people’. IMO it’s just another self serving government boondoggle and dog and pony show.

Meanwhile, as prices are rising and people are struggling to make ends meet, 4 million dead from a virus. I heard that poor lawyer and street activist from Chicago is planning a big bash for his 60th birthday at his new 30 acre estate, 11.75 million dollar 7,000 SQF mansion in Martha's Vineyard.

[Buddahaid]

Fine with me.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim#:~:text=Whoever%20incites%2C%20sets %20on%20foot,holding%20any%20office%20under%20the

Even the law uses the word as defined.

[Rockstar]

Again, in order for there to be an insurrection someone has to be charged and found guilty of it.

What people have been charged with are to name a few: aiding and abetting, conspiracy, obstruction, resisting arrest, theft, entering restricted areas, disorderly and disruptive conduct, assault, parading or picketing in a capitol building, violent entry, obstructing an official proceeding. Of the 591 people charged only 17 have entered guilty pleas.

[MaDef]

^ I take it the protests against police brutality (killing of Floyd) were not intended to overthrow the government or to kill anyone, let alone the (then) vice president Pence?

"[I] Racial unrest, Polls have estimated that between 15 million and 26 million people have participated at some point in the demonstrations in the United States, making them the largest protests in United States history.

It was also estimated that between May 26 and August 22, around 93% of protests were "peaceful and nondestructive". According to several studies and analyses, protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful.

In protests that involved violence, violence was variously instigated by protesters, counter-protesters, or police, and police sometimes escalated confrontations."
You completely missed the point Catfish. The First amendment guarantees the right of assembly and redress of grievances. You also need to assess these incidents objectively. let me give you a hint, both BLM and Stop the Steal organizations had a right to rally and protest, both organizations illegally entered and vandalized government buildings and assaulted government personnel. Both organizations had active politicians acclaiming each organizations reasons for protesting. So as far as I can tell, the only reason for Congress to call the Jan 6th protest an insurrection is to deflect from the fact that they set the whole thing in motion in 2016 when they declared Trump an illegitimate President and vowed to remove him from office by any means necessary and then spent 4 years doing just that.

Fun Fact: the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest in Seattle (remember the Summer of Love?) was an actual insurrection, although it only lasted a month.

[3catcircus]

You should already know my opinion on this. Each man and woman is responsible for their own actions. Agree or not with the reasons everyone had a right to be there and to peaceful protest. Those that are found guilty of breaking the law MUST be punished to it’s fullest extent. However it’s my opinion this committee is of no real use whatsoever to ‘we the people’. IMO it’s just another self serving government boondoggle and dog and pony show.

Meanwhile, as prices are rising and people are struggling to make ends meet, 4 million dead from a virus. I heard that poor lawyer and street activist from Chicago is planning a big bash for his 60th birthday at his new 30 acre estate, 11.75 million dollar 7,000 SQF mansion in Martha's Vineyard.

I'd be perfectly fine with jury nullification of the charges occurring for anyone who is sent to trial for wandering about the capitol on Jan 6th.

The problem is that federal prosecutions all too often aren't about the rule of law - they're about politics or punishing people who do things the feds don't like even if not unlawful. We're at the point where pretty much the entire *implementation* of the federal government needs to be done away with and a do-over needs to occur that gets back to first principles. The *intent* of the US form of government is solid, but it's been abused and corrupted by people "serving" in government who are in it only to serve themselves - and its exponentially gotten worse starting in the 1960s. The DoJ and FBI can't be trusted to go after people who break the law because they have been proven to have *instigated* the crimes they arrest peopke for. A big mouth internet tough guy who wants to kidnap a governor has no means of doing so until the FBI provides material support and encouragement, then they arrest the person they pushed into doing the illegal activity and then act as if they've just done great police work and stopped crimes from happening - that's no different than a firefighter who commits arson so that they can look good responding to the fire...

[Catfish]

You completely missed the point Catfish. The First amendment guarantees the right of assembly and redress of grievances. You also need to assess these incidents objectively. let me give you a hint, both BLM and Stop the Steal organizations had a right to rally and protest, both organizations illegally entered and vandalized government buildings and assaulted government personnel. Both organizations had active politicians acclaiming each organizations reasons for protesting.
Fair enough. I see your point, but for me protests even with looting cannot be compared to storming the Capitol trying to overthrow a democratic vote, imho this is a different scope.
Fun Fact: the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest in Seattle (remember the Summer of Love?) was an actual insurrection, although it only lasted a month. Lol ok, but even here this was a protest:
"The zone was a self-organized space, without official leadership. Protesters united behind three main demands:
"Cut Seattle's $409-million police budget by 50 percent.
Shift funding to community programs and services in historically black communities.
Ensure that protesters would not be charged with crimes.""
You can discuss how much sense some of those demands made (:03:), but it sure was not a planned plot to overthrow the constitution of the USA.

[August]

You can discuss how much sense some of those demands made (:03:), but it sure was not a planned plot to overthrow the constitution of the USA.


You're not seriously claiming that Jan 6th was a planned plot to overthrow the US Constitution. What's next, you going to claim it was worse than 9-11? You wouldn't be the first...

[MaDef]

Fair enough. I see your point, but for me protests even with looting cannot be compared to storming the Capitol trying to overthrow a democratic vote, imho this is a different scope.
You watch to much CNN. :rolleyes:

The Jan 6th "insurrection" was nothing more than a one-off protest that got out of hand. to describe it as anything different is hyperbole to increase ratings or political power period.

[Buddahaid]

I do think there was a plan by the militia groups to prevent the counting of electoral votes minimally. There were also people there looking for Pence and chanting hang Mike Pence and the like. There is plenty of cell phone video of that if you choose to watch it and after breaking into the building a threat like that must be taken seriously.

[August]

I do think there was a plan by the militia groups to prevent the counting of electoral votes minimally. There were also people there looking for Pence and chanting hang Mike Pence and the like. There is plenty of cell phone video of that if you choose to watch it and after breaking into the building a threat like that must be taken seriously.

Maybe, but if it was a plan it was a damned poor one. Unarmed, dispersed, no coordination. That's not a plan and i think the lack of charges against anyone for insurrection pretty much proves it. How do you have an insurrection and not have anyone to charge with insurrection?

[Buddahaid]

Watch this again.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007606996/capitol-riot-trump-supporters.html

[August]

Pay wall, can you sum up your point?

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpW5TP35pHA

[Buddahaid]

Pay wall, can you sum up your point?

Pay wall? I'm not paying anything to watch it? Try this.

It's a timeline of the riot using cell phone and news footage I found made more sense of it than the news coverage on the day.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007606996/capitol-riot-trump-supporters.html

[Catfish]

You watch to much CNN. :rolleyes: [...]
I do not watch CNN, I also try not to quote them :)
The march or as they themselves said "storm" was planned beforehand, as a lot of radio traffic and papers show, if probably not on Faux news. Buses and other transports chartered weeks before, weapons, talking about explosives, all seemed organised and is well documented. It was a direct try to illegally overthrow the election and clear disregard for democracy.
One of Trump's stements “If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore”.
With the words of the right wing it would have been called "rebellion", "looting", "insurrection" and "treason". We will see what the courts find, and how they decide.

You may have a point in that the rioters were too dumb to execute their plan completely, but then their glorious leader refrained to walk with them and tell them what to do. Would have been interesting to see Trump being arrested, but of course as all great men (lmao) he left this to his supporters.

BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55575260

Deutsche Welle:
https://www.dw.com/en/storm-on-the-capitol-our-institutions-will-survive-long-after-all-of-this/a-56152619

Boston University:
https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/why-a-white-mob-could-storm-the-us-capitol/

Time:
https://time.com/5926883/trump-supporters-storm-capitol/



re August
why do you compare this to 9/11? The latter was a terrorist attack from outside, and while being despicable it usually unifies a country against violence from outside. But ok.. in as far as this mob came from inside of America it is indeed disturbing.

[Rockstar]

So some think if it wasn’t for the FBI there would have been no plot, or conspiracy to commit a crime.

Glen Greenwald has an excellent article at substack unfortunately that IS behind a paywall.

However this left wing socialist pothead who works from his garage touches a bit on that subject.

https://youtu.be/Duv6fbj0h0U

[Buddahaid]

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/timeline-of-national-guard-deployment-to-capitol/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-guard-capitol-riot/
Jan. 5: According to the Pentagon, Mayor Bowser delivers a letter addressed to the U.S. acting attorney general, Miller and McCarthy confirming that there are no additional support requests from the D.C. National Guard. Bowser later says that she already had the support she requested from the National Guard and that any decision to request guard forces to protect the Capitol is not hers. “The Capitol Police and the leadership at the Capitol, they did not make the decision to call in guard support,” Bowser later says in a press conference on Jan. 7. “I cannot order the Army, the National Guard, to the United States Capitol grounds. I can, in the district, with the approval of the secretary of the Army.”

According to an internal document reviewed by the Washington Post, an FBI office in Virginia issues a warning that extremists are preparing to commit violence in Washington on Jan. 6. According to the bulletin — which Steven D’Antuono, head of the FBI’s Washington field office, said was shared “with all our law enforcement partners” through the joint terrorism task force — “An online thread discussed specific calls for violence to include stating ‘Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.” Sund told the Post he never received nor was made aware of the FBI’s field bulletin.

Update, Jan. 28: According to a Jan. 5 memo obtained by the Washington Post, the Pentagon restricted the authority of Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the commanding general of the District of Columbia National Guard, so that he could not deploy the quick reaction force without approval from higher-ups. In an interview published in the Washington Post on Jan. 26, Walker said those required authorizations contributed to delays in the National Guard response the following day. According to the Washington Post, Walker “needed to wait for approval from [former Army secretary Ryan] McCarthy and acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller before dispatching troops, even though some 40 soldiers were on standby as a quick reaction force. That standby force had been assembled in case the few hundred Guard members deployed that day on the District’s streets to assist police with traffic control and crowd management needed help, Walker said. … Had he not been restricted, Walker said he could have dispatched members of the D.C. Guard sooner.”

[August]

Pay wall? I'm not paying anything to watch it? Try this.

It's a timeline of the riot using cell phone and news footage I found made more sense of it than the news coverage on the day.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007606996/capitol-riot-trump-supporters.html

Sorry your new york times links demand registration. But does any of it show armed rebel soldiers? Any guns or bombs? Any get away vehicles? I'm guess it does not show anything but a bunch of yahoos howling at the moon.

Again if this was a real insurrection then somebody would be charged with it. Several hundred people have been rounded up, most are still in jail awaiting arraignment, but the most you got is breaking and entering and some assault charges. Not really reflective of the rhetoric.

[Rockstar]

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/timeline-of-national-guard-deployment-to-capitol/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-guard-capitol-riot/
Jan. 5: According to the Pentagon, Mayor Bowser delivers a letter addressed to the U.S. acting attorney general, Miller and McCarthy confirming that there are no additional support requests from the D.C. National Guard. Bowser later says that she already had the support she requested from the National Guard and that any decision to request guard forces to protect the Capitol is not hers. “The Capitol Police and the leadership at the Capitol, they did not make the decision to call in guard support,” Bowser later says in a press conference on Jan. 7. “I cannot order the Army, the National Guard, to the United States Capitol grounds. I can, in the district, with the approval of the secretary of the Army.”

According to an internal document reviewed by the Washington Post, an FBI office in Virginia issues a warning that extremists are preparing to commit violence in Washington on Jan. 6. According to the bulletin — which Steven D’Antuono, head of the FBI’s Washington field office, said was shared “with all our law enforcement partners” through the joint terrorism task force — “An online thread discussed specific calls for violence to include stating ‘Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.” Sund told the Post he never received nor was made aware of the FBI’s field bulletin.

Update, Jan. 28: According to a Jan. 5 memo obtained by the Washington Post, the Pentagon restricted the authority of Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the commanding general of the District of Columbia National Guard, so that he could not deploy the quick reaction force without approval from higher-ups. In an interview published in the Washington Post on Jan. 26, Walker said those required authorizations contributed to delays in the National Guard response the following day. According to the Washington Post, Walker “needed to wait for approval from [former Army secretary Ryan] McCarthy and acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller before dispatching troops, even though some 40 soldiers were on standby as a quick reaction force. That standby force had been assembled in case the few hundred Guard members deployed that day on the District’s streets to assist police with traffic control and crowd management needed help, Walker said. … Had he not been restricted, Walker said he could have dispatched members of the D.C. Guard sooner.”


What’s your point with all of this? If it’s in response to the Dore video, what does it have to do with accusation that the two prominate leaders of this supposed insurrection weren’t just kook right wing conspiracy nuts who got caught. But we’re actually working for the FBI as paid informants! And if on FBI payroll as informants AND the two alleged ring leaders of this upcoming ‘war’. Why in blue blazes did the FBI wait to inform anyone just one day before the protests and on top of that let the ring leaders go? Then lo and behold comes almost immediate expansion and funding for even more domestic police power & intelligence gathering. I mean doesn’t that bother anyone?


Meanwhile 4 million dead , which Fauci may have contributed too. Obama the poor street activist, throwing a birthday party at his new 11.5 million dollar estate on Martha’s Vinyard. Biden drooling on himself, low hanging fruit, inner circle closing in any day now, tic tok tic tok and all that jazz

[mapuc]

If I should use one word on this 6th Jan. attack It would be
Anarchy.(Chaos)

Markus

[Buddahaid]

What's your point? I'm pointing out that the lack of NG response to prevent the break in goes fully up the food chain. The FBI issued the warning and it wasn't acted on. The Fauci stuff for me is of lesser importance than that "insurrection" caused by allegations of "massive voter fraud" which according to your criteria doesn't exist because nobody has been convicted.

[Rockstar]

If I should use one word on this 6th Jan. attack It would be
Anarchy.(Chaos)

Markus

And also quite possibly bought and paid for by the FBI.

[3catcircus]

What’s your point with all of this? If it’s in response to the Dore video, what does it have to do with accusation that the two prominate leaders of this supposed insurrection weren’t kook right wing conspiracy nuts who got caught. But we’re actually working for the FBI as paid informants! And if on FBI on payroll as informants AND the two alleged ring leaders of this upcoming ‘war’. Why in blue blazes did the FBI wait to inform anyone just one day before the protests? I mean doesn’t that bother anyone?


Meanwhile 4 million dead , which Fauci may have contributed too. Obama the poor street activist, throwing a birthday party at his new 11.5 million dollar estate on Martha’s Vinyard. Biden drooling on himself, low hanging fruit, inner circle closing in any day now.

Kinda like how the Roman Empire looked while on its last legs...

[Rockstar]

What's your point? I'm pointing out that the lack of NG response to prevent the break in goes fully up the food chain. The FBI issued the warning and it wasn't acted on. The Fauci stuff for me is of lesser importance than that "insurrection" caused by allegations of "massive voter fraud" which according to your criteria doesn't exist because nobody has been convicted.

First off what’s disappointing yet very clear to me is the cause of 4 million dead doesn’t interest you. As for the rest it didn’t make sense to me. Are you saying voter fraud did exist even though there has been no evidence to support it so you can also without evidence justify your accusation of insurrection?

Just so you know let me clarify, I have said months ago that after reading the filed complaints of voter fraud I personally found nothing in them that would lead me to believe there was any voter fraud. To this date no evidence of voter fraud has been presented, no charges filed, no prosecution and conviction, means no voter fraud. IMO it was just as much a self serving political boondoggle dog and pony show as is the this 6 Jan committee. That said, the same reasoning apples to the unlawful aspect of the protests. No evidence of insurrection presented, no charges filed, no prosecution and conviction, means no insurrection.

[mapuc]

And also quite possibly bought and paid for by the FBI.

Oh man that's far out-Where does this theory come from ? Is there any hard evidence ?

Whether it's gossip or not I hope your authorities look into this.

Every thing shall be investigated even if smell like conspiracy.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

Fauci stuff belongs in the virus thread and I find it laughable digging on Obama given Trump's excesses.

[AVGWarhawk]

That would be true - if it weren't for the fact that I haven't even opened it yet when she runs...

Nope - as Rockstar alluded to - the combination of poodle and lab makes her just about as bad as a sailor - cunning and devious and bearing close watching at all times...

She knows *exactly* what she's doing, which always ends with throwing it down her throat and holding her mouth shut while massaging her throat - while she makes a big production of hacking and gagging as if we're trying to poison her. Followed by scarfing down the turkey lunch meat, or pepperoni or cheese or peanut butter we've tried to hide it in...

Our two senior poodles both blind know by the smell. We try not to do the down the gullet with the pill. Wrap it in prime rib. Now you're cooking with steam! Works for ours. Cheese as well. Also pill pockets sold at the pet store. Whatever it takes I guess!

[August]

Fauci stuff belongs in the virus thread and I find it laughable digging on Obama given Trump's excesses.

Fauci is a government bureaucrat same as any other member of the deep state. As such anything about him is most certainly germane to the subject of US Politics.

[Onkel Neal]

Sorry your new york times links demand registration. But does any of it show armed rebel soldiers? Any guns or bombs? Any get away vehicles? I'm guess it does not show anything but a bunch of yahoos howling at the moon.

Again if this was a real insurrection then somebody would be charged with it. Several hundred people have been rounded up, most are still in jail awaiting arraignment, but the most you got is breaking and entering and some assault charges. Not really reflective of the rhetoric.

Exactly. It was a stupid low-key riot by a bunch of nutty people, it is a lie to call it insurrection.

Christ, when the real insurrection comes, "journalists" at false news outlets like NPR, CNN, and NBC will get lined up against a wall and shot.

[3catcircus]

Exactly. It was a stupid low-key riot by a bunch of nutty people, it is a lie to call it insurrection.

Christ, when the real insurrection comes, "journalists" at false news outlets like NPR, CNN, and NBC will get lined up against a wall and shot.

I don't even know that you could call it a riot, per se. There were several different things going on. People fighting cops. People fighting the people who were fighting the cops. People wandering about the building. People destroying and stealing things in the building. People taking selfies with USCP officers. All while "leaders" in Congress ran and hid and killed someone whom the police who were behind her didn't consider a threat.

Had *any* elected official in the Republican party who claims to have any leadership ability at all come out and given them a "what the hell is the matter with you people!" talking-to, that's all it would've needed.

No one even addresses the fact that the majority of people who were supposedly under Trump's Pied Piper influence were still blocks away listening to his speech at the time of the trespassing.

But then again, any place claimed to be a symbol of the people in a free society that isn't actually open to the public is a symptom of a democratic form of government that has lost its way.

Has the FBI found out who planted pipe bombs at the DNC and RNC buildings that day?

[AVGWarhawk]

Exactly. It was a stupid low-key riot by a bunch of nutty people, it is a lie to call it insurrection.

Christ, when the real insurrection comes, "journalists" at false news outlets like NPR, CNN, and NBC will get lined up against a wall and shot.

My family friend(my fence and gutter guy. His wife is our real estate agent) was there with his kids the day the "insurrection" took place. He said Antifa was there. It was very evident it was them. They were taunting the cops, pushing on the fences and causing the issues. It was not a balls out insurrection with hangings at the Washington Monument that the like of AOC and Pelosi would like everyone to believe. It most certainly was not even close to the riots witnessed across the country. This day was painted as a "super spreader of COVID" but the riots(after full investigation by CNN. Say it ain't so) were not found to super spreaders of COVID. The contrived BS constantly peddled by the major talking head outfits is nothing short of irresponsible.

Now, it is not to say people did enter the Capitol and these are the nuts that needs some roasting. AOC painted it as if she was going to die that day...YET...she said just this week that the prison system needs to be abolished. This lady has not sat down with a true hardened criminal nor their victims. She lives in a cushy apartment in DC/NY drinking Starbucks coffee. She is nothing but an activist. Not a law maker. Another who is painting this day as if it was the end of the world. Poor thing is still in counseling.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/kEASFd3CGFE

[Catfish]

My family friend(my fence and gutter guy. His wife is our real estate agent) was there with his kids the day the "insurrection" took place. He said Antifa was there. It was very evident it was them. [...]
I have just decided to call antivaxxers AntiVa.

[Buddahaid]

My family friend(my fence and gutter guy. His wife is our real estate agent) was there with his kids the day the "insurrection" took place. He said Antifa was there. It was very evident it was them. They were taunting the cops, pushing on the fences and causing the issues. It was not a balls out insurrection with hangings at the Washington Monument that the like of AOC and Pelosi would like everyone to believe. It most certainly was not even close to the riots witnessed across the country. This day was painted as a "super spreader of COVID" but the riots(after full investigation by CNN. Say it ain't so) were not found to super spreaders of COVID. The contrived BS constantly peddled by the major talking head outfits is nothing short of irresponsible.

Now, it is not to say people did enter the Capitol and these are the nuts that needs some roasting. AOC painted it as if she was going to die that day...YET...she said just this week that the prison system needs to be abolished. This lady has not sat down with a true hardened criminal nor their victims. She lives in a cushy apartment in DC/NY drinking Starbucks coffee. She is nothing but an activist. Not a law maker. Another who is painting this day as if it was the end of the world. Poor thing is still in counseling.

Maybe you better watch some footage. There was way more than secret antifa instigators to see if you take of the rose tinted Trump glasses. That's just a cheap excuse to deflect any blame from "patRIOTS'.

[August]

Maybe you better watch some footage. There was way more than secret antifa instigators to see if you take of the rose tinted Trump glasses. That's just a cheap excuse to deflect any blame from "patRIOTS'.


"Way more than". That sounds like you are admitting that Antifa was at least there instigating too right? :03:

Bottom line is unless somebody is charged with something more than trespassing and fighting with the cops there was no insurrection and certainly no proof that any right wing group had a serious plan to overthrow the US government or somebody would be charged with it.

Show me the proof or as far as i'm concerned this is just another over reaching attempt by the Democrats to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Buddahaid]

"Way more than". That sounds like you are admitting that Antifa was at least there instigating too right? :03:

Bottom line is unless somebody is charged with something more than trespassing and fighting with the cops there was no insurrection and certainly no proof that any right wing group had a serious plan to overthrow the US government or somebody would be charged with it.

Show me the proof or as far as i'm concerned this is just another over reaching attempt by the Democrats to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I don't have to admit anything because you can't prove a negative. I'm allowing that it was certainly possible and probably true. I don't for a minute believe the riot wouldn't have happened otherwise which I think is naive.

[Rockstar]

Oh man that's far out-Where does this theory come from ? Is there any hard evidence ?

Whether it's gossip or not I hope your authorities look into this.

Every thing shall be investigated even if smell like conspiracy.

Markus

Sorry for not responding sooner. An idea being floated is the FBI may have been guilty of ‘entrapment’. Which is action by law enforcement personnel to lead an otherwise innocent person to commit a crime, in order to arrest and prosecute that person for the crime. Or as in this case to be used as an excuse expand its role in the name domestic terrorism.

[AVGWarhawk]

This is a pipe dream and pass the buck...or in this case billions. The money will never get past the corrupt governments in Central America.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-is-the-root-cause-of-the-border-crisis/ar-AAMIqiO?ocid=msedgntp

The more detailed plan, titled “U.S. Strategy for Addressing the Root Causes of Migration in Central America,” consists of five pillars on issues ranging from addressing economic insecurity to promoting respect for human rights.

But aside from the plan’s fourth pillar, which addresses countering the influence of criminal gangs, the strategy calls on the United States to engage in what is essentially state-building. Harris’s plan would ask the U.S. to support “new energy delivery infrastructure” and efforts to improve the resilience of “core public infrastructure,” even as the Senate begins debate on a $1.2 trillion infrastructure package at home.

The strategy also outlines efforts to reform Central American governments. The U.S. will attempt to strengthen the independence of the countries’ justice sectors and improve the efficacy of their legislatures. Even civil society and media organizations will be supported.


Build a wall. Fix the intake system. Throwing money south of the border is irresponsible and NOT the answer.

[mapuc]

I got one word for this loser

President Donald J. Trump pressed top Justice Department officials late last year to declare that the election was corrupt even though they had found no instances of widespread fraud, so he and his allies in Congress could use the assertion to try to overturn the results, according to new documents(*) provided to lawmakers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/politics/trump-justice-department-election.html


(*)
Washington, D.C. (July 30, 2021)—Today, Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney, the Chairwoman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform, released handwritten notes taken by then-Acting Deputy Attorney General Richard P. Donoghue of a December 27, 2020, phone call with former President Donald J. Trump and former Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen. These notes reveal attempts by former President Trump to directly pressure the two most senior officials at the Department of Justice (DOJ) to overturn the certified results of the 2020 election or risk losing their jobs.

https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/committee-obtains-key-evidence-of-president-trump-s-attempts-to-overturn-the

Markus

[Rockstar]

This is a pipe dream and pass the buck...or in this case billions. The money will never get past the corrupt governments in Central America.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-is-the-root-cause-of-the-border-crisis/ar-AAMIqiO?ocid=msedgntp




Build a wall. Fix the intake system. Throwing money south of the border is irresponsible and NOT the answer.


It makes perfect sense too me. Though I do think international assistance is also part of the overall picture to help quell the flow and strengthen ties in our region. Of course the easiest and most cost effective way to have prevented this and future surges would be to stop political pandering for votes getting peoples hopes up that those that survive the trek bum rush the border.

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/04/Kamala-Harris-Getty-640x480.jpg

[Buddahaid]

It makes perfect sense too me. Though I do think international assistance is also part of the overall picture to help quell the flow. Of course the easiest and most cost effective way to have prevented this and future surges would be to stop political pandering for votes getting peoples hopes up that they bum rush the border.


It's what China does. Boost foreign infrastructure and then turn it into profit.

[Rockstar]

It's what China does. Boost foreign infrastructure and then turn it into profit.


Its called foreign aid and it’s what ALL countries which can afford it do for the purposes of strengthening regional security and preventing friendly governments from falling under the influence of not so friendly ones.

Providing economic assistance to our neighboring governments, control our border even if that means finish building a wall, and stop pandering for votes which cause surges in border crossings. All seem reasonable to me.

[3catcircus]

Its called foreign aid and it’s what ALL countries which can afford it do for the purposes of strengthening regional security and preventing friendly governments from falling under the influence of not so friendly ones.

Providing economic assistance to our neighboring governments, control our border even if that means finish building a wall, and stop pandering for votes which cause surges in border crossings. All seem reasonable to me.

Those are terrible ideas. If we did that, how would the Dems gain a district's worth of illegal alien-turned Dem voters every month like they are right now?

[Rockstar]

I think allowing them in has little to do with gaining votes or any real heartfelt concern for the poor defenceless immigrants seeking liberty bells, Fourth of July fireworks, freedom and democracy. Rather I think it’s safe to say it has much more to do with exploiting these poor defenceless migrants, using them as cheap labor where they’re subject to rampant abuse, held against their will and coerced or physically forced to work in the fields.

The way I see it there are those people who apply for citizenship the legal way. They are the ones who have something unique to offer this country. We see them taking their citizenship tests, learning about their new country raising their hand and swearing allegiance in a once in a lifetime ceremony. But they are few.

The masses currently flooding the border that Democrats are allowing in? Well, they get sent to the farms and we never hear about them again.

Don’t forget to thank Democrats for your hand picked freedom and democracy tomatos, enjoy! :haha: :salute:

[Rockstar]

So concerning the ‘misinformation’ Looking at this from a Trump perspective I have to ask, is it really misinformation or did he just let slip truth he may have heard in a brief? Or is he really just out of his ever lovin’ mind?

https://youtu.be/37sHTnz1P0U

[Rockstar]

Bidenvilles coming to a neighborhood near you.

https://youtu.be/X-lzQ0TUOYs


Hi Congress is going home now. Would you like some cake?
https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F c91c8116-3941-4e72-989d-dc9d340c8110_2902x3833.jpeg

[Buddahaid]

Cool! Will they be performing at the fair like Bobby and Cissy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec2EpGs9wKM

[MaDef]

I got one word for this loser



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/politics/trump-justice-department-election.html


(*)


https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/committee-obtains-key-evidence-of-president-trump-s-attempts-to-overturn-the

MarkusNeed to see copy of original notes in full, all that's in your link are snippets with no context.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/xJwNXdvQcHg

[mapuc]

Need to see copy of original notes in full, all that's in your link are snippets with no context.

I thought what I had posted was enough for you to make your own decision whether you wanna believe it or not.

I understand you want to see a copy of the original notes in full...otherwise one may think hearsay. I don't know from where I shall get it.

Markus

[Rockstar]

I thought what I had posted was enough for you to make your own decision whether you wanna believe it or not.

I understand you want to see a copy of the original notes in full...otherwise one may think hearsay. I don't know from where I shall get it.

Markus

Hand written notes? That’s too funny, and here I thought presidential phone conversations were recorded and listened in by a whole army of lawyers, civilians and military personnel. How hard could producing the actual conversation be? They did during Russiagate why not now?

Inflation skyrocketing, stagnate wages, economy tanking, people losing their homes, st. Fauci who may have funded this virus which caused the death of 4 million worldwide, a president who doesn’t have a clue where he’s at and this is the best they can do, this is the headline in the D.C. hand written notes just now appearing over something that allegedly happened over 8 months ago?

Government boondoggle or boondoggle: ‘work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value.’


Tick toc tick toc, inner circles, low hanging fruit, orange man bad, any day now, yadda yadda, Trump, blah blah blah :roll:

[Rockstar]

The above Watter’s video seems to make sense now.

DC Mayor Bowser officiates maskless indoor wedding after reinstated mask mandate. Despite the mayor's order, the wedding reception featured hundreds of unmasked guests served by dozens of wait staff, including a conspicuously unmasked Bowser.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-mayor-bowser-officiates-maskless-indoor-wedding-after-reinstated-mask-mandate/ar-AAMNzes

[MaDef]

I thought what I had posted was enough for you to make your own decision whether you wanna believe it or not.

I understand you want to see a copy of the original notes in full...otherwise one may think hearsay. I don't know from where I shall get it.

Markus You posted a press release from a political committee (with an agenda). If you want a decision one way or the other from me, I'll need to see/hear a full transcript of the phone calls. That way I can give you an objective assessment. until that happens anything I say is just an opinion.

[Catfish]

I thought what I had posted was enough for you to make your own decision whether you wanna believe it or not.
I understand you want to see a copy of the original notes in full...otherwise one may think hearsay. I don't know from where I shall get it.
Markus
This complete audio conversation is all over the net to be heard, downloaded, and maybe instantly forgot.
You cannot force anyone to see or accept reality or truth if some entity prefers to deny it.
An opinion has not much to do with evidence, and an opinion does not count the same. You cannot convince anyone who does not want to see.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

When any political party panders to the political extremes everyone else looses. American politics in general has devolved to such a point that members of both parties spend more time pointing fingers and claiming how bad, awful, or stupid the other side is that virtually nothing actually gets done. Is this really what We the People voted for?

[Rockstar]

Drill baby drill! I don’t think Biden is drilling because I don’t think he’s aware of what’s happening. Anyone known who’s in charge?

https://youtu.be/1sZPM05s3zo

[Catfish]

"Inside Texas’ fight against a ransomware hack"

https://apnews.com/article/technology-government-and-politics-business-texas-hacking-47e23be2d9d90d67383c1bd6cee5aef7

So they know it is Russia?

It is all relatively new technology, but if you use the internationally accessible internet for controlling and steering your industry and citizen support, be it electricity or water resources or personal data, defense networks or whatever, one should maybe use an entirely different system, or make the one in use secure against such attacks.
Europe has nothing to fear of course, anyone could hack it all because we are so friendly and harmless here :doh:

[Onkel Neal]

Something's going on here... :06:


Four officers who responded to the January 6 attack on the Capitol have died by apparent suicide

.
https://youtu.be/QumE4Y959DQ

That's insane!

[AVGWarhawk]

Something's going on here... :06:




That's insane!

Sad. Odd. Really odd.

[mapuc]

^ Agree this is very odd.

I could understand if one of them whatever reason toke his/her life but all four of them !? C'mon

Markus

[August]

Something's going on here... :06:


Four officers who responded to the January 6 attack on the Capitol have died by apparent suicide.

That's insane!


Do you include the word apparent because you have heard it might be something else? I can't think of any reason someone would have it out for the capitol police.

[3catcircus]

Do you include the word apparent because you have heard it might be something else? I can't think of any reason someone would have it out for the capitol police.

It would not at all surprise me if they committed Arkancide...

[Rockstar]

The predatory, derogatory, venomous accusations and hate speech directed at police officers in recent headlines. Can have devastating affects even on good officers. Couple that with the additional riot drama and no wonder more haven’t gone off the deep end. In fact I bet if the media actually gave a damn and investigated further they would probably find suicide is a more common occurrence in the force than we think

[3catcircus]

The predatory, derogatory, venomous accusations and hate speech directed at police officers in recent headlines. Can have devastating affects even on good officers. Couple that with the additional riot drama and no wonder more haven’t gone off the deep end. In fact I bet if the media investigated further they would probably find suicide is a more common occurrence in the force than we think

Nosebutbutsee... All cops are racist killers. CNN told me so.

[Onkel Neal]

Do you include the word apparent because you have heard it might be something else? I can't think of any reason someone would have it out for the capitol police.



I can't either. I copied the title from the video news source, but I have to go along with the use of the word apparent, because...it doesn't make sense. What kind of guy kills himself over something like the Capitol riots? Commit suicide...for what reason? Depression? Coping with dealing with a bunch of yahoos over a 10 hour span?


Like this guy says, how many Portland cops have killed themselves over 180 days of mad, flaming riots, right?
https://youtu.be/wdfWBKMrHFA

[August]

I agree but it'll be difficult getting the straight story out of all the conspiracy theories that will be generated from this.

[Onkel Neal]

Honestly, I cannot imagine some group is offing cops, the possibility that could be exposed sounds super-risky.

But ... what is going on here? It's crazy, man, I don't see how this is happening.

[Buddahaid]

Maybe they are getting pressured after the riot by the same idiots. Maybe they are feeling guilty for not having prevented the breech. Maybe they are feeling betrayed by the politicians who are mocking them for having felt their lives were at risk. I'm pretty sure if that mob was trying to break into your house you'd feel threatened and take steps to defend yourself.

[les green01]

i have seen video's shot by the rioters or whatever you want to call them some of the police move barricades aside and motion for them to go though even seen a video of the woman getting kill police around them wasnt trying to stop them the officers didnt react until the cap busted on her no telling why they waste their selves and probly never know unless they left a note

[3catcircus]

i have seen video's shot by the rioters or whatever you want to call them some of the police move barricades aside and motion for them to go though even seen a video of the woman getting kill police around them wasnt trying to stop them the officers didnt react until the cap busted on her no telling why they waste their selves and probly never know unless they left a note

There are pictures of the cops with "rioters" taking selfies...

[Onkel Neal]

Maybe they are getting pressured after the riot by the same idiots. Maybe they are feeling guilty for not having prevented the breech. Maybe they are feeling betrayed by the politicians who are mocking them for having felt their lives were at risk. I'm pretty sure if that mob was trying to break into your house you'd feel threatened and take steps to defend yourself.

Maybe. But don't you think this is really, really odd?

[Skybird]

Is anything known about the record of those dead cops from that day, I mean is it known whether they belonged to the Trump sympathising faction that even seemed to have let people in, posed for selfies and removed barricades, or were they belonging to those who indeed tried to fought the attackers off?


This might make a possible difference for explanations. Between post-stress trauma, and feelings of shame and guilt for example.



Or they just had their hearts broken from what is happening in their country and the ideas they might have had on their minds when deciding for a police career.



Speculations are infinite, but some seem less nlikely than others. In principle Neal's vague hinting at a possible conspiration to silence unwanted witnesses or accomplices of something also is not off the table. But before name and face and man gets accused, there needs to be shown sufficient hints for such a suspicion.

[Rockstar]

Is anything known about the record of those dead cops from that day, I mean is it known whether they belonged to the Trump sympathising faction that even seemed to have let people in, posed for selfies and removed barricades, or were they belonging to those who indeed tried to fought the attackers off?


This might make a possible difference for explanations. Between post-stress trauma, and feelings of shame and guilt for example.



Or they just had their hearts broken from what is happening in their country and the ideas they might have had on their minds when deciding for a police career.



Speculations are infinite, but some seem less nlikely than others. In principle Neal's vague hinting at a possible conspiration to silence unwanted witnesses or accomplices of something also is not off the table. But before name and face and man gets accused, there needs to be shown sufficient hints for such a suspicion.


We might also consider the possibility that they may have been prior military and served in Iraq, Afghanistan or other war zones. So they could have already been dealing with a lot of PTSD baggage.

[AVGWarhawk]

Today's climate for police officers is nothing short of toxic. They have a target on their backs. They are openly hated. Politicians do not support them, the media does not support them, and some parts of society do not support them. Some of this non-support is well earned. However, there a many good police officers doing the job but they are grouped as one and all bad. Everyone hates a cop until they need one. To add to this discussion, a friend of mine was at the Capitol the day the insurrection occurred. He commented first hand witnessing the police being harassed by Antifa. The police were powerless on this day. They are powerless on most days. Being hated day to day is not a healthy way to live. The news media can be nothing short of relentless.

[mapuc]

Is there other political forums or FB groups where people discuss US politics in general.

I'm on a crusade to find things I haven't found here or among most of my FB-friends.
I have seen it among our MSM journalist and few of my fb-friends otherwise not.

Why this search is because what a friends friend said to me some month ago.

My American friends says....

I'll never accuse a person from lying, but I haven't exactly found any how really does.

I'm talking about American voters who worship Biden.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Is anything known about the record of those dead cops from that day, I mean is it known whether they belonged to the Trump sympathising faction that even seemed to have let people in, posed for selfies and removed barricades, or were they belonging to those who indeed tried to fought the attackers off?


This might make a possible difference for explanations. Between post-stress trauma, and feelings of shame and guilt for example.



Or they just had their hearts broken from what is happening in their country and the ideas they might have had on their minds when deciding for a police career.



Speculations are infinite, but some seem less nlikely than others. In principle Neal's vague hinting at a possible conspiration to silence unwanted witnesses or accomplices of something also is not off the table. But before name and face and man gets accused, there needs to be shown sufficient hints for such a suspicion.


To make sure I'm crystal clear, I do not believe there's a murder conspiracy. As I said, that's to crazy and would certainly blow up.

I hadn't dug into the background and political affiliations of these officers, I agree, it would be interesting to know.

[Skybird]

Neal, then I maybe red something into your words. Sorry, didn't want to put something in your mouth.

[mapuc]

I'm convinced your authorities will look into it very closely to why these four former police officer commit suicide(according to this link provide by Neal)

Markus

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/LNh6RByU2cg

[mapuc]

Now I wonder does Biden sound like a senile when he speaks without a teleprompte ? I have only, from my memory seen and heard him once without this teleprompte(a link posted by me)and heard him in the video ^

Or is only sometimes he does that ?

Markus

[3catcircus]

Now I wonder does Biden sound like a senile when he speaks without a teleprompte ? I have only, from my memory seen and heard him once without this teleprompte(a link posted by me)and heard him in the video ^

Or is only sometimes he does that ?

Markus

It's all the time. He's a dementia sufferer. Although he's a bad guy who is as crooked as a dog's leg, it's still criminal what his wranglers and power-mad wife are doing exploiting his condition.

[mapuc]

It's all the time. He's a dementia sufferer. Although he's a bad guy who is as crooked as a dog's leg, it's still criminal what his wranglers and power-mad wife are doing exploiting his condition.

Is the political correctness so...so that no one dare to step forward saying what some or most of the American know ?

Markus

[Buddahaid]

It's all the time. He's a dementia sufferer. Although he's a bad guy who is as crooked as a dog's leg, it's still criminal what his wranglers and power-mad wife are doing exploiting his condition.

I'm not finding anything but opinion pieces regarding this so I'll just call it unsubstantiated rumor.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-25/

So voting is a priviledge?
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/22/wide-partisan-divide-on-whether-voting-is-a-fundamental-right-or-a-privilege-with-responsibilities/

What about the 15th amendment?
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-15/

Or the 19th amendment?
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-19/

Or the 24th amendment?
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-24/

Or the 26th amendment?
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-26/

[Jimbuna]

Today's climate for police officers is nothing short of toxic. They have a target on their backs. They are openly hated. Politicians do not support them, the media does not support them, and some parts of society do not support them. Some of this non-support is well earned. However, there a many good police officers doing the job but they are grouped as one and all bad. Everyone hates a cop until they need one.

Has been and still is the case for some time now here in the UK and I'm actually overjoyed I'm well out of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Has been and still is the case for some time now here in the UK and I'm actually overjoyed I'm well out of it.

Jim, I bet you are. Now some cities are seeing the fallout with defunding the police. Who would want to sign up now? Best of luck to them.

[Rockstar]

Jim, I bet you are. Now some cities are seeing the fallout with defunding the police. Who would want to sign up now? Best of luck to them.


Not sure but I think this time it has more to do with city leaders emptying the jails. If you look hard enough there are plenty of police chiefs complaining about the catch and release policies.

[mapuc]

The world is going down the drain and a majority of the ordinary citizens does what they can to help by keep on voting on the same politicians or parties

Markus

[Reece]

Well said Markus, agree 100% :yep:

[MaDef]

In light of the Criminal complaint filed against Gov. Coumo, how likely is it he gets perp walked in front of the media?

[Rockstar]

Liberals chief Russiagate conspiracy theorist and hero of the democrats and the faithful Schiffettes

Busted

https://youtu.be/zjT_4jymmoY

[Catfish]

Since when do you have something against war mongers?
Ah i see, only when non-republicans do it, otherwise it's patriotic.

[mapuc]

Since when do you have something against war mongers?
Ah i see, only when non-republicans do it, otherwise it's patriotic.

Warmongering isn't patriotic in no way. It's only foolish

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

In light of the Criminal complaint filed against Gov. Coumo, how likely is it he gets perp walked in front of the media?

Not very likely. He will ride this out. It is his last term.

[mapuc]

Not very likely. He will ride this out. It is his last term.

Last term doesn't this mean no more immunity and he can therefore be drawn into a civilian trial ?

Markus

[Catfish]

The real problem of the US (from a conservative suisse newspaper) blame all translation errors on me

"Around 50 percent Americans remain in a kind of dark mood since the last election. A lot say the election has been rigged and the vaccine would be dangerous. Behind this, is a massive turning away from reality.


There is something wrong in America. It could be felt since some years, and who still needs proof can read about it in a precise study just published by the worldwide-known Monmouth University in New Jersey.
They have just established a relation between two usually not connected themes: The vaccination campaign and the voting result.

- Of the Amerians who see Biden's win as the result of manipulation, only 36 percent have been vaccinated.
- Of the Americans leaning towards the democrats the percentage of vaccinated (83 percent) is as high as those who say that the election has been executed correctly (90 percent)
- Of the republican Americans only a minority has been vacinated (40 percent), while a majority (57 percent) believes in election fraud.

Summing up this and using a bit of mathematics we come to a disturbing result: Just 51 percent of Americans are a) vaccinated and b) consider the election to have been correct.
51 percent of normal citizens: This is scarce.
It is a confusion of spirits which would be less dramatic, were it not happening within the leading power of the free world.

The american poll specialist Harry Enten said "We are a fifty-fifty nation". Extremely close are not only the voting results between rebulicans and democrats, but also the question whether a voting result can be trusted. 50 say yes, 50 no.
A bit more strongly worded, the fundament of the american democracy is sliding.

What is true, what is a lie? Philosophers have been posing this question ever more often lately. Some world-politial actors have made lies fashionable, and turned obvious lies into "truth".
Like Putin for example. During the russian annexation of the Krim all the world saw the green-clothed armed military without uniform or rank insignia. Putin said that there were no russian soldiers in the Krim. A bit later he admitted that there had been "a few". And a bit more later he personally decorated soldiers and officers, and whole regiments for their "mission". A radically post-modern view of "reality".

Likewise Donald Trump has been a radical. Immediately after his inauguration in 2016 he advised his staff to alter the photos of his swearing in, in a way to make it look more crowded than it had been in reality. Strictly speaking this action could already have him ousted, since no president may use his power for manipulation of the truth. The president has a responsibility, a serving function. Whoever misconceives this does not belong into the White House, not a single day. Trump managed to stay there for four years, in which time he spread 30,573 lies plus uncounted misleading claims. No one forgets the term of "alternative facts" made famous by Trump-advisor Kellyanne Conway.

This un-culture of bending facts and sheer lies has damaged the USA, but not only this nation. Every day, four years long, newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, but also broadcasters like NBC, CNN and CBS have been denigrated as "Fake news media" by the US president.

Trump opponents, of course, were just flipping the bird. But this constant fire has changed something in Trump's voters. They do not trust the traditional media anymore. This has not only "feuilletonistic" consequences: It is about checks and balances.

Had the Washington Post unveiled a scandal like Watergate, the White House would have countered with "Fake News" accusations, at that time the Washington P. would have been already shreddered by Trump before it even had been published. In the end Trump's people would have shifted it all comfortably into a zone of indecision: "Some say so, some say so". 50/50.

"Isn't the truth always to be found in the middle"? What a bullsh!t. How about "the middle" in documents showing evidence of a repeatedly targeted bombardment of syrian hospitals by russian planes, and "something else"?

The view of the world has become diffused, maybe it all is a bit complicated. But at the same time now more people than ever feel comfortable being held by the hand, some superior alpha animal giving them interpretation, some explanation of make-belief "sense". But before all: A sense of being together.
And this is where the danger is.

The turning away from reality to the billowing bubbles of the internet: This comfortable as destructive new way of life has been practised first in America. And now country and people are groaning about what it made of them. Evermore impressing and ever more sophisticated and "erudite" books and essays are being published, which explain (afterwards, of course) how the gliding of the USA in the direction of Trump could be possible.

In search of deeper causes for the right-wing populism more observers are finding problems that have not much to do with material things. [...] "


A.s.o...tiresome to translate from swyzerdytsch :doh:
Can translate the rest if anyone is interested, but i guess no one is anyway.

Just a view from an independent european newspaper.

[Catfish]

the follow-up, view from an independent european (switzerland? suisse?) newspaper.

the rest:

"In search of deeper causes for the right-wing populism more observers are finding problems that astonishingly have not much to do with material things.
Instead nightmarishly often there's the word "loneliness". Sociologists and pollsters have made much americans susceptible to personal cults, conspiracy theories and right-wing activism. It has been proven that the more atomized and isolated the voting public was, the more votes Trump got. A kind of immunization had those who had a family, a job, or found fulfillment in hobbies.

How those lonely ones were moving towards Trump, shows Michael C. Bender in his book "Frankly, we did win this election". More touching than despising are his descriptions of Trump-Superfans which he calls "Front row Joes". A lot were just "recently pensioned", writes Bender. A lot "had no children" or were "estranged from their families". They said that Trump had enriched their lives, given them a direction. Suddenly they were traveling, let other fellow-campaigners spend the night in their homes, or offered a ride in their cars. A movement which accepted them all, without prejudice.

"So is anyone surprised?" asked Michelle Goldberg, a New York Times columnist. She had quoted political scientist and philosopher Hannah Arendt (1906-1975). She had stated long before and much more clear than others, that especially lonely people feel drawn towards totalitarian ideologies.
Already in 1951 Mrs Ahrendt, in her book "The Origins of Totalitarism", had come to the conclusion that exludes any solution or remedy in the fight right vs. left: "The characteristic feature of the masses is not brutality or backwardness, but isolation and the lack of normal social relations". It is not the classes, but the masses. It is not left vs. right.
A social intact society would never have voted for Trump."


Not entirely my opinion, but has some merits.

[August]

What a load of crap. :roll:


I wish I had a dollar for every crackpot theory that claims to have us figured out.

[Buddahaid]

What a load of crap. :roll:


I wish I had a dollar for every crackpot theory that claims to have us figured out.

Heck I live here and can't figure it out....

[Hawk66]

What a load of crap. :roll:


I wish I had a dollar for every crackpot theory that claims to have us figured out.

I love this theory, August, which you constantly use to wipe of all views, opinions from the "Foreigners" at least that stuff, which you personally do not like or which does not fit in your "world view" : They do not know us, they do not understand us, they do not have a clue.

Regardless if one gives feedback at my job , my neighborhood, my country or whatever - I surely also not agree on everything, sometimes I do not agree at all. But - what I have learned in my life - is that it is an error, sometimes a fatal one, not to listen to other opinions, views and reflect. Else not seldom, one lives in a "bubble" or how we say here in Germany in a "Elfenbeinturm" (ivory tower)

[Cybermat47]

My main takeaway from this entire thread is that the PRC is well on its way to overtaking the USA as a global power, thanks to the crippling partisanship in the US.

[Skybird]

The next elections mean to become a real menace to the very democratical system in the US.

Here is another opportunity for some to shoot the messenger because the new she carries is not wanted to be heard.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/09/politics/donald-trump-justice-department-elections-republicans/index.html

In some long forgotten thread ten years or more ago I once said that I see the future of the US most likely to become a military dictatorship or a religious autocracy that turns moralism into an excuse for suppression. I see no reason why I should think differently about the future. Just that that future now is ten years closer.

Europe does right to show Biden's US a relatively cold shoulder. He is just an intermezzo before the madness unleashed by the Great Orange Party will continue - and worse than before. Rigging and stealing elections, by attempts of the GOP, is being coded into the very genetic code of the American political system and its legal fundaments.

[Rockstar]

LOL the extraordinary effort has been put forth by the people who continue the accusations of wrong doing. It’s been how long now? 5 years? And nothing, Russiagate, collusion, Steele Dossier, Stormy Daniels, insurrection, and now the newly discovered hand written notes.

You want to know how long it really takes to find someone guilty when real crimes have been committed? Just ask Governor Cuomo.

[Skybird]

With GOP senators and representatives, accomplices, accused, and judges and jurors all atre the same. Thats why there are no verdicts. The evidence is on the table. And gets labelled by the accused, I mean the jurors, as "fake news". They get away with that becasue they are also the judge at the same time.

Its hard to see the distinctions between Russia, Belarus and Turkey on the one hand anymore, and the GOP style of things on the other. The only difference is that in Russia, Belarus and Turkey many people fight, oppose and protest against the wrongdoings of their mposed "idols", while in America half of the people believe them and want them. Americans seem to want to get lied to.

[mapuc]

What a load of crap. :roll:


I wish I had a dollar for every crackpot theory that claims to have us figured out.

As I use to say about another country and its citizens

You can read hundreds of books and study for years and still don't understand their country because you don't know their inner child.

Markus

[mapuc]

Maybe it's not correct for me as an outside to laugh at these videos, he is not my President and I didn't put my vote on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNWjXYHz2u0

Markus

[Catfish]

With GOP senators and representatives, accomplices, accused, and judges and jurors all atre the same. Thats why there are no verdicts. The evidence is on the table. And gets labelled by the accused, I mean the jurors, as "fake news". They get away with that becasue they are also the judge at the same time. [...]
Also Trump's idea to put his own marionettes into appropriate juridical positions. But still, will he be able to ride it out this time? :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Also Trump's idea to put his own marionettes into appropriate juridical positions. But still, will he be able to ride it out this time? :hmmm:
Trump has bred many a follower. Even if he cannot make it himself, and I do not take that for granted, many in the grand orange party have watched him how to bribe the masses and poison its minds, and learned the tricks. Santiz from Florida for example. Others get ducked with their face in the dust and still refuse to stand up against him, like Mitch McConnell. In several states the Trumpists try to change the legislation so to make voting for the unfaithful and disloyal more difficult if not impossible, and to pave the road to legally put any election result in doubt and steal the vote that does not declare them as winners.

Vote rigging becomes integral part of these states' constitutions. The courts will increasingly decide national and state elections. And not every judge is unbiased, and fair. And what can he do if he is bound to highly biased laws that were created with vote rigging on mind?

How weak and rotten the system is you can already see in the fact that after these many years and now a final demand by the DoJ, Trump's lawyer-accomplices still delay the handing over of his tax declarations. Thats maximum disrespect for the law, and the law does not get enforced, its enforcement gets endlessly delayed.

Too many rules. Too many exceptions from rules. Too many exceptions from expections from the rules. Too many appendices for the exceptions from the exceptions from the rules. Too many - I mean: the tyranny of a hopelessly overloaded bureaucracy and overloaded law system. Every juggler can juggle the paragraphs endlessly, just to keep them in motion and delay a decision until the end of time. Thats the primary function of a state's bureaucracy: to get tailored by those in power so that it protects their interests best. Can be a single tyrant. Can be a party, regime, or a parliament with several parties. Can be a complete social caste thinking of itself as "the elite". Trump's seeds have been sown. The harvest will be accordingly, even if he dies.

Thats why I think we must urgently learn how to best stay away from the US from now on. It has hit its iceberg, and its already some time ago.

We can have fun with our own Eutanic meanwhile.

[Catfish]

We can now finally close this thread.

"The United States no longer exists -
according to Trump spokesperson Sarah K. Burris"
https://www.rawstory.com/country-doesnt-exist-liz-harrington/
Is she more crazy than Taylor Greene? Is that even possible? :hmmm:

As a European I am looking forward to colonising the new territories :O:

[mapuc]

^ If this is the case we can expect millions of American refugees seeking asylum here in Europe.

Markus

[u crank]

Also Trump's idea to put his own marionettes into appropriate juridical positions. But still, will he be able to ride it out this time? :hmmm:

Are you suggesting that Trump is the first and only President to "put his own marionettes into appropriate juridical positions?"

I sure hope not.

[Catfish]

^ Obviously Trump was and is not the only one
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/13/how-trump-compares-with-other-recent-presidents-in-appointing-federal-judges/

[Arlo]

^ If this is the case we can expect millions of American refugees seeking asylum here in Europe.

Markus

Europe doesn't look like such a bad place to live. It has lots of interesting and beautiful sights to see, amazing healthcare at a reasonable price, decent jobs that pay well and come with better benefits, tons of history to explore (I'm a history guy) and amazingly enough most everyone there knows multiple languages (including English) and there's usually a decent number of U.S. expats to hang out with in most regions of most nations.

When some (over here in the U.S.) think the snappiest insult to deliver is 'Love it (the way things are) or leave it'... it simply reveals their love of broken systems and the privilege they enjoy that allows for them to bask in its laziness. I love my country enough to fight for the nice things that the rest of western civilization enjoys. That doesn't mean I won't like to frequently visit, however. :D

[u crank]

^ Obviously Trump was and is not the only one
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/13/how-trump-compares-with-other-recent-presidents-in-appointing-federal-judges/

Yep. Very obvious.

[Rockstar]

^ If this is the case we can expect millions of American refugees seeking asylum here in Europe.

Markus

I don’t know how things are going on in Europe. But over here I think I have more options if the feces hits the rotating oscillator. Right now I’m noticing a lot of stores with empty shelves of certain items. I’m expecting further declines in purchase power, higher prices and even more product and food shortages once price controls are instituted in an attempt to reign in inflation. Good luck everyone.


Meanwhile: "The production, the sound, the lights, the staff, the food, the drinks - like, man, epic. Epic, epic, man," attendee T.J. Chapman, a music manager, said on his Instagram account in the wee hours of Sunday, adding: "Y'all never seen Obama like this in your life. . . . The party of all parties.".

[Skybird]

Written with the US on mind, but true for Germany and then some more countries, too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/covid-vaccine-skeptics-are-ruining-return-normal-we-have-no-ncna1276221


In the spring, we felt sorry for the vaccine hesitant, who were unable to realize the gift science had handed us and let their irrational fear of side effects or their disdain for Democrats deprive them of safety.

We felt so snug and secure in our vaccinated armor, assuming that their decisions, while regrettable, would have little bearing on our future. Now we know that we can’t escape the pandemic unless they change.
And there’s little reason to think they will. Vaccine doubters claim they’re waiting for the shots to be proven safe and effective. We are in a five-alarm fire, and they’re wondering whether the fire extinguishers work.
When the fire isn’t raging, it’s not like Americans are known for being careful about what goes into our bodies. We pop ibuprofen like M&Ms, ignoring the fact that too much (https://www.healthline.com/health/can-you-overdose-on-ibuprofen#overdose-symptoms) can cause harm. We think nothing of mixing acetaminophen (https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-acetaminophen-safe-to-take-when-youre-drinking/) with alcohol, although that practice can be dangerous for regular drinkers.
Too many have invested too much of their identities in vaccine resistance (...)
(...)
Vaccine resisters may be blindingly sure about their future. Ironically, it is the vaccinated who bear the burden of doubt.

Those wood heads take us all hostage. And thats why I am turning increasingly aggressive and unforgiving against them.


The longer the virus is allowed to freely roam in the bigger numbers, the more opportunities it has and will use to form mutations.

[Skybird]

If I remember the big stories of the past couple of years, fires, floods, pandemics, wars, lies and betrayel amongst our leaders, climate, energy, money meltdown and debt explosion, famines, desertifications, tribal wars in parts fo the world, I find it increasingly hard to not think of the present times in terms of an endgame for humans. Maybe we see the last scenes in the last act and just do not know it.

The world is so seriously off balance everywhere and regarding everything, it is hard to spot anything"normal" and "healthy" anymore. Reason and kindness are dead. Madness rules. Everything breaks. Everybody is engaged in destroying, may it be by intentional decision, may it be by inability to escape the frnezy and do differentily: it is not possible to not consume stuff.

Im so happy to not have kids. I have no hope left. Corona is my least concern.


We are too many. We are so damn freaking many. With these many people, there is no hope to escape the maelstrom.

[Rockstar]

Written with the US on mind, but true for Germany and then some more countries, too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/covid-vaccine-skeptics-are-ruining-return-normal-we-have-no-ncna1276221

Those wood heads take us all hostage. And thats why I am turning increasingly aggressive and unforgiving against them.


The longer the virus is allowed to freely roam in the bigger numbers, the more opportunities it has and will use to form mutations.


I don’t get it, if only fifty percent of our population has been vaccinated and yet we have reached the projected herd immunity target set for Jul-Aug 2021. That would mean the remaining balance is made up of unvaccinated persons who have COVID anti-bodies achieved from being infection rather than vaccination. It seems to me then that COVID can only roam about in a relatively insignificant number of people who do not have immunity either through vaccination or natural selection because have chosen to remain isolated.

Believe or not in the majority of cases the human body is capable of defending itself all on its own quite well.

[Skybird]

I red until "herd immunity" and then stopped. Nonsense becomes not less nonsense just because it gets endlessly repeated.

[Rockstar]

I red until "herd immunity" and then stopped. Nonsense becomes not less nonsense just because it gets endlessly repeated.


The Jul-Aug 2021 wasn’t my projection. IMO you all are being set up to believe COVID caused the economy to tank. Keeps you distracted and blaming each other instead of holding the administrations of both parties accountable for digging this hole I think we’re about to fall into.

[Rockstar]

NY Times, WaPo national security reporters serve at pro-war Pentagon-funded think tank

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/08/09/ny-times-wapo-national-security-reporters-serve-at-pro-war-pentagon-funded-think-tank/

https://youtu.be/3AY4lmpnEOc

Imagine a country where there’s no separation between the government, the military, and the media. A lot of Americans would think of China, Russia or North Korea, but it’s a perfect description of the United States today. Located in Washington, the Center For A New American Security (CNAS) is the clearest example of the unholy merger.

CNAS is the premier foreign policy think tank of the Democratic Party. It is funded by the State Department and Pentagon and has taken more money from weapons companies over the last several years than any other think tank in Washington. It’s also funded by oil companies, big banks, and right wing governments – basically the most destructive forces on the planet.


Here’s an oldie but a goodie, sure it’s not Rolling Stone Magazine but it will do.
17 July 1996
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/hearings/ciasuseofjournal00unit.pdf

Mr. Koppel. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and thank you for invit- ing me here this morning and for this opportunity to make a few preliminary comments.
As you no doubt expected, I am unalterably and categorically opposed to the notion of the CIA having the legal option of using journalism as a cover for its officers or agents. Having said that, there are circumstances under which the Agency has, under what it per- ceives to be the greater national interest, broken American laws in the past, and I have no doubt that it will continue under such circumstances to do so in the future.

… It will be much easier for those foreign government and agencies if we give them yet another opportunity to assume that the United States is, after all, just like them. It will certainly make life much more difficult for my colleagues and me. It will also place an even greater strain on the worn thread of credibility that exists between American journalists and our readers and viewers if they are left to wonder which of us are still trying to maintain some ethical and professional standards and who among us is actually working for U.S. intelligence.
Those of my colleagues who have devoted a lifetime striving for fairness and objectivity in their work, who have genuinely reported without fear or favor, will now have to settle for the assumption that they were just maintaining their cover.
How often the CIA would actually use such cover is beside the point. The relevant question is how often it would be assumed, both home and abroad, that American reporters are working with a sec- ond secret agenda.
Which brings me back to my initial point. The gathering of intelligence is a difficult, dangerous, and sometimes dirty operation. That is not my judgment. That is what we have repeatedly been told by senior intelligence officers. It is they, including the distinguished current Director of Central Intelligence, who explained the use of tainted assets by invoking the need to deal with crooks and thugs in the interest of protecting our national security.
When, as they sometimes do, U.S. intelligence officers circumvent or even break American laws, they must reckon with the possibility that they will one day be held to account. If their argu- ments are persuasive, if it is true that the national interest could not be served in any other fashion, the Congress can be expected to be lenient and understanding. But at least everyone understands that a line has been crossed and that there may be consequences. If the CIA must on occasion use the role of an American journalist to conceal one of its operatives and to protect the greater national interest, it will do so, regardless of what is decided by Congress. But let that continue to be in the knowledge that a free press is being endangered and that American law is being broken.

Too late Ted media corporations have been for sometime now openly hiring FBI, CIA operatives and intelligence officers as their very own panel of ‘experts’. Americans don’t care about facts or truth in journalism they want drama! Makes them feel that their opinion matters, they love the drama they crave it, they dream about it. It’s all they know.

You’ve come a long way baby! Gone are the days when in 1996 our elected officials dare inquire and speak freely. These days they need to toe the line to keep their elected to position.
3 January 2017
“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this. Schumer said that as he understands, intelligence officials are "very upset with how [Trump] has treated them and talked about them."”

https://www.thebigsmoke.com.au/wp-content/uploads/maxresdefault-35-1080x675.jpg

Tictok tictok, Michael cohen, any day now, inner circles, Russia gate, collusion, Steele dossier, low hanging fruit, stormy Daniels and the beat goes on. :har:

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/X60-6ihbm6c

[3catcircus]

I red until "herd immunity" and then stopped. Nonsense becomes not less nonsense just because it gets endlessly repeated.

That you consider herd immunity to be nonsense is a shame - it shows only your lack of science education.

The science has been settled - herd immunity exists, it's just a matter of how many people need to be infected and recover for the rest of the population to not become sick.

[Arlo]

We all know how questionable the Mayo Clinic is compared to most other sources of "science education". Never-the-less .... (ignore because ... hey, you don't wanna be wrong or nuthin'):

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

"How is herd immunity achieved?

There are two main paths to herd immunity for COVID-19 — infection and vaccines.

Natural infection

Herd immunity can be reached when enough people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection.

However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19:

Reinfection. It’s not clear how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have antibodies, it’s possible that you could get COVID-19 again.
Health impact. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the pandemic. This number of infections could lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have existing health conditions. The health care system could quickly become overwhelmed.

Vaccines

Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others.

Herd immunity makes it possible to protect the population from a disease, including those who can't be vaccinated, such as newborns or those who have compromised immune systems.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has given emergency use authorization to a handful of COVID-19 vaccines.

But reaching herd immunity through vaccination against COVID-19 might be difficult for many reasons. For example:

Vaccine hesitancy. Some people may object to getting a COVID-19 vaccine because of religious objections, fears about the possible risks or skepticism about the benefits. If the proportion of vaccinated people in a community is below the herd immunity threshold, a contagious disease could continue to spread.

Protection questions.

It’s not clear how long the COVID-19 vaccines will protect you from COVID-19. Further research is needed to see how much the COVID-19 vaccines reduce transmission of the COVID-19 virus. Also, research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines may have lower efficacy against some of the variants of the COVID-19 virus. New variants, which could be more resistant to vaccines, are regularly emerging.

Uneven vaccine roll-out. The distribution of COVID-19 vaccines has greatly varied among and within countries. If one community achieves a high COVID-19 vaccination rate and surrounding areas don’t, outbreaks can occur if the populations mix.

What’s the outlook for achieving herd immunity in the U.S.?
The U.S. is currently making progress toward herd immunity through a combined approach. The number of fully vaccinated adults continues to rise. In addition, more than 31 million people in the U.S. have had confirmed infections with the COVID-19 virus — though, again, it’s not clear how long immunity lasts after infection.

Given the challenges, it’s not clear if or when the U.S. will achieve herd immunity.

However, the FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at protecting against severe illness requiring hospitalization and death due to COVID-19. Even if it isn’t currently possible to stop transmission of the COVID-19 virus, the vaccines are allowing people to better be able to live with the virus."

[Skybird]

That you consider herd immunity to be nonsense is a shame - it shows only your lack of science education.

The science has been settled - herd immunity exists, it's just a matter of how many people need to be infected and recover for the rest of the population to not become sick.
I slammed herd immunity in case of Covid 19, and Corona virusses in general.

I know herd immunity exists with other deseases. With Corona however such claims are naive, if not dubious, and I got tired of them by now. Do we have herd immunity against flu? Common cold? ;) We do not, and probably never will. These virusses, Corona family, are too eager to mutate all the time.

The term has been used by antivaccers since long time now to denounce the reasonability of artifical vaccination.

Fact is that whereever they claimed herd immunity already existed for Covid-19 - it did not.

Therefore, many virologists have given up hopes to ever acchieve herd immunity for Covid 19 already last autumn, and some did so even earlier, if they really knew Corona virusses from their workplaces and research projects.

Theoretically, for keeping Delta harmless, you would need a vaccination rate of all population and all age groups, of 90% it was said, btw, probably even higher, 95%. Lower rates of 75-85% are only valid for earlier strains that were less infectous.

Its a dead horse, but they keep on beating it like a jungle drum. Pure desperation.


Of course it does not help that vaccinated and recovered alike loose immunity again after some months. Another detial Covid 19 has in common with the seaosnal flu and the common cold. Thats why they give seasonal flu shots, every year. Their efficiency vary from year to year and with age group, from 20, 25% to 40, 45%, in some years slightly higher.

[mapuc]

To stay in this Corona herd discussion in our US-politic thread.

Read somewhere that to archive this herd immunity at least 80-90 % of the population need to take the vaccine or get infected and thereby build a natural immunity against Covid-19
(Could of course remember wrong)

Markus

[Rockstar]

To stay in this Corona herd discussion in our US-politic thread.

Read somewhere that to archive this herd immunity at least 80-90 % of the population need to take the vaccine or get infected and thereby build a natural immunity against Covid-19
(Could of course remember wrong)

Markus

Unfortunately Marcus we’ve learned from some here they just simply believe it’s impossible to achieve. Instead demanding that we must lock down, quarantine and start forced injections. Meanwhile U.S. media has turned into just like any other banana republic source of information. Having been infiltrated by our own government intelligence services and our elected officials fear them and not us. Even worse our economy may make like a submarine and crash dive to the bottom soon.

Mark my words, if that happens I can guarantee you the headlines will pit us against each other once again. Instead of our media journalists defending us and looking at the decades of irresponsible spending, and holding politicians of both parties to account. They will lead off with headlines squabbling with each other over whose fault it was vaxxers and anti vaxxers.

[Rockstar]

See the difference between media spin and an actual real honest to goodness accusation of a crime having been committed?

Trump accused of everything under the sun, collusion, Steele dossier, stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, pee tapes, tax evasion, Putin’s Manchuria candidate, insurrection. six years later nothing.

Governor Cuomo accused of rape and he hauls arse out of town.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/10/andrew-cuomo-resigns-as-governor-of-new-york/

[Catfish]

[...]Read somewhere that to archive this herd immunity at least 80-90 % of the population need to take the vaccine or get infected and thereby build a natural immunity against Covid-19
Markus
Rockstar read it all somewhere, too.

[mapuc]

Rockstar read it all somewhere, too.

It was in the Danish news some days ago. In this issue they talked about herd immunity and why Denmark could not archive this.

Denmark can not archive herd immunity due to many(800.000) not response to the call and the vaccine is not 100 % effective

Markus

[Rockstar]

Rockstar read it all somewhere, too.

That’s right I did. I love ya buddy if your ever in the U.S. you buy the whiskey and I’ll buy the Hindu Kush and we’ll head up to the Appalachians and go shroom hunting and talk to the bears.

:subsim: :yeah: :salute: :D

[mapuc]

Back to US Politics

So USA does not exist anymore !?

What type of country has it turned into instead ?

Markus

[3catcircus]

I slammed herd immunity in case of Covid 19, and Corona virusses in general.

I know herd immunity exists with other deseases. With Corona however such claims are naive, if not dubious, and I got tired of them by now. Do we have herd immunity against flu? Common cold? ;) We do not, and probably never will. These virusses, Corona family, are too eager to mutate all the time.

The term has been used by antivaccers since long time now to denounce the reasonability of artifical vaccination.

Fact is that whereever they claimed herd immunity already existed for Covid-19 - it did not.

Therefore, many virologists have given up hopes to ever acchieve herd immunity for Covid 19 already last autumn, and some did so even earlier, if they really knew Corona virusses from their workplaces and research projects.

Theoretically, for keeping Delta harmless, you would need a vaccination rate of all population and all age groups, of 90% it was said, btw, probably even higher, 95%. Lower rates of 75-85% are only valid for earlier strains that were less infectous.

Its a dead horse, but they keep on beating it like a jungle drum. Pure desperation.


Of course it does not help that vaccinated and recovered alike loose immunity again after some months. Another detial Covid 19 has in common with the seaosnal flu and the common cold. Thats why they give seasonal flu shots, every year. Their efficiency vary from year to year and with age group, from 20, 25% to 40, 45%, in some years slightly higher.

So think about what you just said. If this coronavirus mutates as quickly as every other coronavirus that causes a common cold, then why are we bothering to chase after it? We're *already* seeing that the vaccines aren't fully effective in the new strains, less than 6 months after the major rollout of those vaccines because of symptomatic breakthrough cases in the vaccinated. So either they will *never* effectively achieve herd immunity, or everyone will be forced into annual boosters that will be best-guess as to which strains will be prevalent - similar to how they pick flu vaccine strains each season. In which case, it'll likely be a similar level of efficacy - 40% on average.

So - if that is the case, then the *only* way out without getting a shot every 6 months is to do what those of us who understand this stuff were saying last year: bite the bullet, ramp up medical readiness, protect the most vulnerable, and let everyone else get infected and then recover. We know that natural infection and subsequent recovery confers more effective immunity because you are exposed to all of the viral proteins, unlike with the vaccines. We know that there is evidence that people who have been infected with other betacoronaviruses and subsequently got COVID had a stronger immune response.

Lastly, if covid is as mutable as other coronaviruses, then the pathogenicity will very likely decrease similarly to previous deadly pandemic coronaviruses - which means it'll be an endemic common cold virus by next year, with potential for increased pathogenicity every couple of decades.

[Rockstar]

Back to US Politics

So USA does not exist anymore !?

What type of country has it turned into instead ?

Markus

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

[Buddahaid]

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

Hey, I agree with you on this, unfortunately that smoke was let out of the box in, oh 1985 or so, during the Reagan years and I don't see how it can ever be put back in.

[em2nought]

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.


Unfortunately, it looks like our military big wigs are more likely to join the media in placing their vacant heads up their own arses before the media ever remove their own. But what would I know, I'm unsophisticated unlike all those who attended Obama's Birthday Party. :har:

[Skybird]

So think about what you just said. If this coronavirus mutates as quickly as every other coronavirus that causes a common cold, then why are we bothering to chase after it? We're *already* seeing that the vaccines aren't fully effective in the new strains, less than 6 months after the major rollout of those vaccines because of symptomatic breakthrough cases in the vaccinated. So either they will *never* effectively achieve herd immunity, or everyone will be forced into annual boosters that will be best-guess as to which strains will be prevalent - similar to how they pick flu vaccine strains each season. In which case, it'll likely be a similar level of efficacy - 40% on average.

So - if that is the case, then the *only* way out without getting a shot every 6 months is to do what those of us who understand this stuff were saying last year: bite the bullet, ramp up medical readiness, protect the most vulnerable, and let everyone else get infected and then recover. We know that natural infection and subsequent recovery confers more effective immunity because you are exposed to all of the viral proteins, unlike with the vaccines. We know that there is evidence that people who have been infected with other betacoronaviruses and subsequently got COVID had a stronger immune response.

Lastly, if covid is as mutable as other coronaviruses, then the pathogenicity will very likely decrease similarly to previous deadly pandemic coronaviruses - which means it'll be an endemic common cold virus by next year, with potential for increased pathogenicity every couple of decades.
If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.

[Skybird]

Another one who gained enlightenment too late.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/funeral-man-died-covid-19-turned-vaccine-testing/story?id=79311556

[3catcircus]

If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.

So, in other words, "two weeks to flatten the curve," was a lie. Either that or health infrastructure leaders are grossly incompetent. Every western nation has had over a year to ramp up staffing, logistics, and equipment acquisition.

Viruses do not mutate "worse." They mutate to advantage their ability to replicate. That is exactly what we see going on - increased transmissibility, no increase in pathogenicity. Which would kill more infected people more quickly, thus This virus will continue to mutate to try and keep itself able to infect and replicate. Ultimately, it reaches three point that it only results in cold symptoms - like *every* other coronavirus that wasn't artificially prevented from spreading. Like rhinoviruses and adenoviruses. Research indicates that those annoying rhinoviruses we're deadly eons ago.

[Skybird]

Sigh. :rolleyes:

Just for you, 3catcircus, and the likes of you:

https://exploringyourmind.com/the-poisoned-arrow-buddhist-story-about-living-present/

[3catcircus]

Sigh. :rolleyes:

Just for you, 3catcircus, and the likes of you:

https://exploringyourmind.com/the-poisoned-arrow-buddhist-story-about-living-present/

Hope is not a plan for success...

[Rockstar]

If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.


Don’t blame COVID. It was the conscience decision by people in power which eroded the work force. In fact there were many businesses particularly small business owners that wanted to stay open. But it was a decree not COVID which told them they had to close up shop. The jobless soon discovered government unemployment benefits paid better than wages and many did not return to the work force because of it. To compete with the government freebies some corporations are now offering higher wages to entice the lazy to come back to work. Unfortunately even more small business may fail because they can’t compete with a corporations ability to pay higher wages.

No more mom and pop stores it looks to me like one big corporate take over. Like the shade tree mechanic their days are numbered.

[Buddahaid]

The pandemic didn't start that by any means, it just sped it up lately. There are many things I look for in the local stores regularly that just aren't there and I have to use Amazon. My rule is if it needs to be ordered locally than I may as well order it myself and save the trouble of another store visit.

[Skybird]

:/\\!!

[Buddahaid]

:/\\!!

The stores are miles away and I have deadlines.

[mapuc]

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

Same here I love my countries Denmark and Sweden
It will always be those who reject their country because their trusted Politician didn't win or got elected-They may be saying - My country is going downhill.

As I use to say
You may hate your politicians, but not your country and the soil you walk on.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Hey, I agree with you on this, unfortunately that smoke was let out of the box in, oh 1985 or so, during the Reagan years and I don't see how it can ever be put back in.

I would like to know more, can you elaborate?

[Arlo]

Don’t blame COVID. It was the conscience decision by people in power which eroded the work force. In fact there were many businesses particularly small business owners that wanted to stay open. But it was a decree (on lowering the chance of infection) not COVID [B](the infection) which told them they had to close up shop. The jobless soon discovered government unemployment benefits paid better than wages (that they could come closer to a living wage) and many did not return to the work force because of it (employers refusal to offer a living wage). To compete with the government freebies (tax money supported) some (many) corporations are now offering higher wages to entice the lazy to come back to work (higher wages that offer the worker a chance to experience the mere ability to live from paycheck to paycheck without having to juggle debt so much). Unfortunately even more small business may fail because they can’t (or won't) compete with a corporations ability to pay higher wages.

No more mom and pop stores it looks to me like one big corporate take over. Like the shade tree mechanic their days are numbered (typically, a shade tree mechanic isn't a career).

That was the weirdest advocation of a living wage I've read to date. But ... :yeah:

[Catfish]

Don’t blame COVID. It was the conscience decision by people in power which eroded the work force. In fact there were many businesses particularly small business owners that wanted to stay open. But it was a decree not COVID which told them they had to close up shop. The jobless soon discovered government unemployment benefits paid better than wages and many did not return to the work force because of it. To compete with the government freebies some corporations are now offering higher wages to entice the lazy to come back to work. Unfortunately even more small business may fail because they can’t compete with a corporations ability to pay higher wages.

No more mom and pop stores it looks to me like one big corporate take over. Like the shade tree mechanic their days are numbered.
So it is Trump's fault? :hmmm:
Because he listened to Fauci. :hmmm: :hmmm:
And Fauci is of course a communist trying to undermine the ECONOMY :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
I am slowly getting an idea how some Trumpers tick.
No, i really have no idea :shucks:

[Rockstar]

That was the weirdest advocation of a living wage I've read to date. But ... :yeah:

Only thing is Im not for government controlling prices and wages. I am pro union and I wish people would form one where they can, its not against the law. Heck, I mention it at work now. But its weird when I ask, they’re ticked off with the hours and wages, really upset with how hard it is too make ends meet and constantly threatening to find another job that pays better. But then there they are the next day doing nothing but complaining again. If you ask me this is the perfect time to stir the pot and make demands of our corporate overlords. ;)

Oh well,

[Rockstar]

For all the Bidenettes and all you Cuomo brothers from other mother’s.

https://youtu.be/TTJz6__YePU

Guy gets away with killing 10,000 elderly in nursing homes and he gets to keep his job. But grope some women and has to exit stage left the next day. Says a lot about society I guess.

https://youtu.be/x8HewLSDkAg

[Arlo]

Not the best bait ... but keep chucking it out there.

https://c.tenor.com/EWIuxOhLQNkAAAAM/fishing-rod-snap.gif

:03:

[Rockstar]

Andrew Cuomo resigns: He personifies abuse of power at the expense of the vulnerable.

The unborn, the elderly and women - depend on the powerful to use their strength to protect. Cuomo failed them all.

The hero of the Democrats and the liberal media actively opposed the advice of countless health experts and returned the covid positive elderly under his watch back to their nursing homes and to their and fellow residents’ certain deaths.

He then evaded efforts to accurately count the death toll in New York’s nursing homes. He instructed his staff to alter the numbers in the mandated reports that documented what exactly happened that turned the homes for New York most vulnerable population into COVID death factories.

But whats with this hey. With help from his brother at CNN he did get a 4 million dollar book deal out of it. :yeah:

All those caring people who were supposed to care about people and care about caring of those who cared where did they go?

[Arlo]

Sorry, with it being obvious regarding those you admire, politically, morally and intellectually, I'd say you like to make divisive noise and that you'd rather scream than celebrate. :)

[Rockstar]

Sorry, with it being obvious regarding those you admire, politically, morally and intellectually, I'd say you like to make divisive noise and that you'd rather scream than celebrate. :)

Celebrate, huh? Celebrate Coumo and what he has done and then tried to cover it up? Or should we celebrate the fact how he got a 4 million dollar book deal out of it. I guess I could celebrate if I was drinking whatever it is you are.

What woke political catchphrase playbook are you using which told you ‘celebrate’ would be a good choice of words? Maybe it’s just me, but it just doesn’t seem a word anyone would voluntarily to use after such a crime has been exposed.

[Arlo]

^Case in point. ;)

[Rockstar]

Really that’s it? “case in point” then run off? If someone uses his god given right not to subject himself to an unknown vaccine you chastise him for not caring for others. But if someone calls out your hero who disregarded his science advisors ends up killing thousands of senior citizens then gun-decks the logbooks, he rapes women, and gets a 4 million dollar book deal out of it. The best you can come up with is how we should not be divisive and celebrate?

What Would Tribesman Do? This :har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har: :har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har: :har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har:


Btw, anyone know if Tribesmen is still alive?

[3catcircus]

Only thing is Im not for government controlling prices and wages. I am pro union and I wish people would form one where they can, its not against the law. Heck, I mention it at work now. But its weird when I ask, they’re ticked off with the hours and wages, really upset with how hard it is too make ends meet and constantly threatening to find another job that pays better. But then there they are the next day doing nothing but complaining again. If you ask me this is the perfect time to stir the pot and make demands of our corporate overlords. ;)

Oh well,

The issue with unions is that they're now more about political action committees than about looking out for their rank-and-file. That, and union leadership and management to often go along to get along or union leadership is corrupt and/or incompetent.

[Arlo]

I'm still here and you rely on presumption. :yeah:

[Rockstar]

I'm still here and you rely on presumption. :yeah:

I’m happy for you now go have fun celebrating like good little party propagandist.

[Buddahaid]

Meanwhile, back at the secret compound in Montana, the miraculous plan to overturn the 2020 presidential election and 'reinstate" the turd that never was in "state" remains silent. Where is this unconstitutional action to preserve the constitution? :doh:

[Arlo]

I’m happy for you now go have fun celebrating like good little party propagandist.

I understand your need to project as much as your need to exaggerate. I'm a cold war U.S. vet but someone much like you (on a different game forum)
felt the need to call me a communist simply because I didn't think he deserved to be taken seriously. :yep:

[Rockstar]

I understand your need to project as much as your need to exaggerate. I'm a cold war U.S. vet but someone much like you (on a different game forum)
felt the need to call me a communist simply because I didn't think he deserved to be taken seriously. :yep:

I never called you a communist. I called you a political catchphrase propagandist. . Nor did I ask you about your history either but if you need to tell someone maybe you should write a book and see if it sells. < Insert obligatory smiley here >

Buddahaid I don’t pretend to be a constitutional lawyer so I can’t tell you if what they do in Montana is legal or not. But I certainly don’t believe in conspiracies, to overturn elections and reinstating former presidents. It’s only my opinion but anyone has a legal right to challenge election results. Personally, I think it’s all nonsense and I think people are being used by media and politicians. The whole lot of the should be voted out.

[Arlo]

I never called you a communist. I called you a political catchphrase propagandist.

I didn't say you called me a communist. I said someone who acts very much like you did in another forum. As far as 'propagandist' goes, you might be resorting to such but there's no evidence of my doing so.

Nor did I ask you about your history either but if you need to tell someone maybe you should write a book and see if it sells. < Insert obligatory smiley here >

Funny thing, my inclusion of my history was merely to provide example of how ignorant that other guy was but he does seem similar to you. If I do write a book, it will no doubt be about history but not mine. You see, I not only formally study history but political science and anthropology. That background may eventually sell a book or two. Who knows? >>:03:<<

Now, I'm sure we're all looking forward to seeing you post another dozen or more youtube 'non-propaganda' videos, for amusement, if nothing else. Maybe a Q one or two would suit you. >>:up:<<

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58195166


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1632/idt2/idt2/99518d6e-ca07-441d-ac22-619acf8118b2/image/816

[August]

I didn't say you called me a communist. I said someone who acts very much like you did in another forum. As far as 'propagandist' goes, you might be resorting to such but there's no evidence of my doing so.

I once knew someone who acts very much like you do too. He was a troll and a false accuser and a woman hater. Now i'm not saying that YOU are any of those things but I just felt you were similar enough to mention it. :)

Now, I'm sure we're all looking forward to seeing you post another dozen or more youtube 'non-propaganda' videos, for amusement, if nothing else. Maybe a Q one or two would suit you. >>:up:<<

Well I certainly am. They're about the only factual things ever posted around here.

[Arlo]

I once knew someone who acts very much like you do too. He was a troll and a false accuser and a woman hater. Now i'm not saying that YOU are any of those things but I just felt you were similar enough to mention it. :)

Well I certainly am. They're about the only factual things ever posted around here.

How endearing is the closing of crank ranks. :shucks:

[nikimcbee]

For all the Bidenettes and all you Cuomo brothers from other mother’s.

https://youtu.be/TTJz6__YePU

Guy gets away with killing 10,000 elderly in nursing homes and he gets to keep his job. But grope some women and has to exit stage left the next day. Says a lot about society I guess.

https://youtu.be/x8HewLSDkAg


:har::har::har:Now that was funny!

[Buddahaid]

So where is Trump? Isn't he supposed to be "reinstated" today? Maybe it was just another load of crap spewed from the master crap mouth after all. I have to see what that pillow guy and Fox are saying about it. Nothing it seems.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-allies-reject-theory-trump-can-reinstated-president-1619343

I can't understand why the GOP isn't running headlong away from Trump and taking back their party.

[Rockstar]

So far it’s only been you and Arlo talking about it. I don’t think anyone else here really believes that blue-anon or q-anon stuff. Please keep us posted on the latest.

[Buddahaid]

So far only it’s only been you and arlo saying it is supposed to happen. I don’t think anyone else here believes that blue-anon or q-anon stuff.

Yeah, I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone here specifically, just at the whole crazy side of it. I hate the sheeple jokes overall but I have to say it works both ways.

[Arlo]

I don’t think anyone else here really believes that blue-anon or q-anon stuff.

Don't you mean that you don't think anyone at all believes it here? There's a twist in your wiring, sir. ;)

[em2nought]

I can't understand why the GOP isn't running headlong away from Trump and taking back their party.


The election of Trump was "us" taking back our party. :03: It looks like we should have hired the Taliban to help us. :D

[Buddahaid]

The election of Trump was "us" taking back our party. :03: It looks like we should have hired the Taliban to help us. :D

I understand that but it seems to me it turned into a poison pill of personality that has left the more centrist republicans feeling adrift and perhaps betrayed.

I also understand that all of these perceptions are highly influenced by where you live and what your daily interactions are like. It makes for unsettled common ground.

[Arlo]

The election of Trump was (Russia taking over the Republican) party. :03: It looks like we should have hired the Taliban to help us, (as well). :D

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7A01lBLItkEw2-5-vKVk_SZlmGWHklQ4Y1Q&usqp=CAU

[August]

...poison pill of personality


Read that and immediately thought of William Safires "Nattering Nabobs of Negativism". Come to think of it it was the same Nabobs who did more than anyone else to poison that pill. Still working to destroy the country after all these years I guess.

[Buddahaid]

Read that and immediately thought of William Safires "Nattering Nabobs of Negativism". Come to think of it it was the same Nabobs who did more than anyone else to poison that pill. Still working to destroy the country after all these years I guess.

I'm not familiar with that and will have to find time to check it out.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone here specifically, just at the whole crazy side of it. I hate the sheeple jokes overall but I have to say it works both ways.

Yeah, these days there's plenty of blind allegence on both sides, I agree. I bet if ol Trump had started the pandemic with a sense of hypervigilance about social distancing and wearing masks, all the Trump worshippers would have followed along. We have exactly the opposite situation we have now, with all the lefties screaming about personal freedoms.

[Arlo]

Yeah, these days there's plenty of blind allegence on both sides, I agree. I bet if ol Trump had started the pandemic with a sense of hypervigilance about social distancing and wearing masks, all the Trump worshippers would have followed along. We have exactly the opposite situation we have now, with all the lefties screaming about personal freedoms.

Well, you might be missing the non far righties shake their heads and wonder why those that are extreme right think everyone else is a 'leftie.' :shucks:

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, these days there's plenty of blind allegence on both sides, I agree. I bet if ol Trump had started the pandemic with a sense of hypervigilance about social distancing and wearing masks, all the Trump worshippers would have followed along. We have exactly the opposite situation we have now, with all the lefties screaming about personal freedoms.

I have to disagree with Trump supporters following along with Trump if he was hypervigilant with masks/distancing. Trump has taken the vaccine. He urged all to take it and expressed the safety of vaccine. He has taken credit for the vaccine creation yet the worshippers do not take the vaccine.

The dynamics of lefts now is off the charts. For such fun loving people they portray themselves many stated if one has not gotten the vaccine and are infected the hospitals should not treat them.

[Arlo]

I have to disagree with Trump supporters following along with Trump if he was hypervigilant with masks/distancing. Trump has taken the vaccine. He urged all to take it and expressed the safety of vaccine. He has taken credit for the vaccine creation yet the worshippers do not take the vaccine.

The dynamics of lefts now is off the charts. For such fun loving people they portray themselves many stated if one has not gotten the vaccine and are infected the hospitals should not treat them.

Well, the 'off the charts' attitude you are attributing might be more akin to witnessing anti-vaxxers filling up all available beds in hospitals resulting in stroke and heart attack victims not being treated. Guess it might be odd to see a sense of 'personal responsibility' being suggested to those who claim that they are the only ones who take such.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, the 'off the charts' attitude you are attributing might be more akin to witnessing anti-vaxxers filling up all available beds in hospitals resulting in stroke and heart attack victims not being treated. Guess it might be odd to see a sense of 'personal responsibility' being suggested to those who claim that they are the only ones who take such.

Sorry bud, your argument does not wash. The heart attach victims should have stayed off the bacon and cigarettes. The stroke victims with clogged arteries from bacon wrapped hams every week should have thought better. maybe some exercise. They are taking up beds for COVID patients.

[Arlo]

Sorry bud, your argument does not wash. The heart attach victims should have stayed off the bacon and cigarettes. The stroke victims with clogged arteries from bacon wrapped hams every week should have thought better. maybe some exercise. They are taking up beds for COVID patients.

You're actually blaming the stroke and heart attack victims for the Covid wave? SMDH. Perhaps you need to wash your own argument some more.:06:

[AVGWarhawk]

You're actually blaming the stroke and heart attack victims for the Covid wave? SMDH. Perhaps you need to wash your own argument some more.:06:

No. Bacon(fatty foods), cigarettes, alcohol, lack of exercise and countless other things people do that are detrimental to their health. You are so for picking and choosing because there is a vaccine available yet people don't take it and go to the hospital when infected. Same could be said for the dopes that don't take care in their eating habits. Exercise. Smoking. Drinking. Read it again.

So, if a guy who drives 100 mph knowing the damage he could cause to others and himself in an accident should be turned away at the hospital because he knows better?

[Arlo]

No. Bacon(fatty foods), cigarettes, alcohol, lack of exercise and countless other things people do that are detrimental to their health. You are so for picking and choosing because there is a vaccine available yet people don't take it and go to the hospital when infected. Same could be said for the dopes that don't take care in their eating habits. Exercise. Smoking. Drinking. Read it again.

So, if a guy who drives 100 mph knowing the damage he could cause to others and himself in an accident should be turned away at the hospital because he knows better?

I read it the first time and the rationalization is faulty. Not all stroke and heart attack victims suffer due to bad decision making. Nor do all cancer patients. Every single unvaccinated (by choice) Covid victim made a poor and selfish decision. If left up to me I would definitely say the only bed Billy Bob 'fraid of needles' Jones gets would be a tent one set up far enough away as to not be a threat to the other patients in the hospital. If one can't take personal responsibility for the reckless decisions they make with endanger others then they should suffer the consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lFFsTzXdCU

[AVGWarhawk]

I read it the first time and the rationalization is faulty. Not all stroke and heart attack victims suffer due to bad decision making. Nor do all cancer patients. Every single unvaccinated (by choice) Covid victim made a poor and selfish decision. If left up to me I would definitely say the only bed Billy Bob 'fraid of needles' Jones gets would be a tent one set up far enough away as to not be a threat to the other patients in the hospital. If one can't take personal responsibility for the reckless decisions they make with endanger others then they should suffer the consequences.



I'm not talking circles with you all day. People of every walk of life have just as much right to a hospital bed as any other. This includes people who make bad choices, reckless decisions. No one is more special because the chose a different path than another. Get used to it.

[Arlo]

I'm not talking circles with you all day. People of every walk of life have just as much right to a hospital bed as any other. This includes people who make bad choices, reckless decisions. No one is more special because the chose a different path than another. Get used to it.

I'm fine with you keeping your circular thinking to yourself. You don't really want to consider anything else, anyway. :up:

[MaDef]

I read it the first time and the rationalization is faulty. Not all stroke and heart attack victims suffer due to bad decision making. Nor do all cancer patients. Every single unvaccinated (by choice) Covid victim made a poor and selfish decision.

Less than 2% of people who get covid-19 die. Are you unfamiliar with the term personal risk assessment?

[Arlo]

Less than 2% of people who get covid-19 die. Are you unfamiliar with the term personal risk assessment?

I'm familiar when it is merely 'personal.' Extremely infectious disease assisted by idiots who fear the needle more than killing off their fellow man because they just knew the odds were with them ... until they weren't and running to the hospital and taking a bed that wasn't going to filled with a voluntary vector, otherwise, was more of a necessity than making the stupidest political statement one could. It was a stubborn argument/real hill to die on but ... no wait ... apparently convictions have exceptions when it involves your own life (and, of course, other lives don't matter). :yeah:

[MaDef]

I'm familiar when it is merely 'personal.' Extremely infectious disease assisted by idiots who fear the needle more than killing off their fellow man because they just knew the odds were with them ... until they weren't and running to the hospital and taking a bed that wasn't going to filled with a voluntary vector, otherwise, was more of a necessity than making the stupidest political statement one could. It was a stubborn argument/real hill to die on but ... no wait ... apparently convictions have exceptions when it involves your own life (and, of course, other lives don't matter). :yeah:

You want to try that again in plain English?

[Skybird]

I'm familiar when it is merely 'personal.' Extremely infectious disease assisted by idiots who fear the needle more than killing off their fellow man because they just knew the odds were with them ... until they weren't and running to the hospital and taking a bed that wasn't going to filled with a voluntary vector, otherwise, was more of a necessity than making the stupidest political statement one could. It was a stubborn argument/real hill to die on but ... no wait ... apparently convictions have exceptions when it involves your own life (and, of course, other lives don't matter). :yeah:


:Kaleun_Applaud: :yeah:

[Arlo]

You want to try that again in plain English?

It's worded easy enough for you to understand ... if you wanted to. :)

[Catfish]

"Mehr und mehr gefällt mir dieser Jacobovsky Arlo"

[Skybird]

Da sind wir dann schon zu zweit. :Kaleun_Cheers:

[3catcircus]

Less than 2% of people who get covid-19 die. Are you unfamiliar with the term personal risk assessment?

Unfortunately, most people don't understand probableistic risk assessment.

I'm 50, overweight, and take medication for high blood pressure. My risk is higher than my kids who are teenage athletes. But I had COVID, so my risk goes down in regards to getting it and getting really sick in the future - immunology 101. My kids? They have a higher risk of side effects from an unapproved experimental vaccine (and that is exactly what they are. The FDA takes *years* to determine approval of new drugs and therapies, and all previous coronavirus vaccine testing proved unsuitable for human use) than they do of serious COVID outcomes.

[Onkel Neal]

So concerning the ‘misinformation’ Looking at this from a Trump perspective I have to ask, is it really misinformation or did he just let slip truth he may have heard in a brief? Or is he really just out of his ever lovin’ mind?



What can you say about a US President who gets a note about something on his face and he eats it.... while being televised? :88)

https://youtu.be/OIpw63BZt-Q

[mapuc]

^ Tells me that he's nothing but a human.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

^ Tells me that he's nothing but a human.

Markus

That had a hot dog with mustard before the interview.

[August]

^ Tells me that he's nothing but a human.

Markus

Yeah except if Trump were to do such a disgusting thing on camera you'd all still be talking about it daily. Partisan hacks pretending to be psychologists (like some here on this forum) would be on every talk show explaining how it is a sign that he's lost his mind and needs to be removed from office immediately.

The different reaction by the press ought to tell you a lot more.

[mapuc]

Yeah except if Trump were to do such a disgusting thing on camera you'd all still be talking about it daily. Partisan hacks pretending to be psychologists (like some here on this forum) would be on every talk show explaining how it is a sign that he's lost his mind and needs to be removed from office immediately.

The different reaction by the press ought to tell you a lot more.

Not me! Said it so many times I do not care who's your President and I would have said the same if it had happened to Trump.

Markus

[Skybird]

What can you say about a US President who gets a note about something on his face and he eats it.... while being televised? :88)

Tells me he doesnt waste an opportunity.


Or that they don't feed him well.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah except if Trump were to do such a disgusting thing on camera you'd all still be talking about it daily. Partisan hacks pretending to be psychologists (like some here on this forum) would be on every talk show explaining how it is a sign that he's lost his mind and needs to be removed from office immediately.

The different reaction by the press ought to tell you a lot more.

Yeah, that was really disturbing but business as usual for him at the same time.

[3catcircus]

Yeah, that was really disturbing but business as usual for him at the same time.

It reveals a *deep* psychological problem. Adults wipe it off. Either he still eats his own boogers, or it was an inadvertent reveal of the depth of his Alzheimers. People suffering from Alzheimers often revert to behaviors that they outgrew in going from childhood to adulthood.

[MaDef]

It's worded easy enough for you to understand ... if you wanted to. :)

I understood it.... Let me paraphrase it in plain English:

"get the vaccine cause we know better than you"

That pretty much sums up your statement.

The way I see it if I get it I have a 98% chance of recovering (if I could get those kind of odds in Vegas, I'd take up gambling), If I don't recover and I die, my wife gets all my stuff.

[Arlo]

I understood it.... Let me paraphrase it in plain English:

"get the vaccine cause we know better than you"

That pretty much sums up your statement.

The way I see it if I get it I have a 98% chance of recovering (if I could get those kind of odds in Vegas, I'd take up gambling), If I don't recover and I die, my wife gets all my stuff.

Nope. My statement is don't cry for an ambulance when you fail to beat the odds. Fight your last fight on the top of fool's hill. Here's hoping your wife doesn't inherit more than your toys. Good luck, Def.

[Buddahaid]

As I mentioned in the "virus" thread, the smaller community hospital I work at is essentially at capacity now. The crunch is from the unvaccinated during the summer, it's not flu, season. I guess it's just tough there's no room for accident victims etc.

[MaDef]

Nope. My statement is don't cry for an ambulance when you fail to beat the odds. Fight your last fight on the top of fool's hill. Here's hoping your wife doesn't inherit more than your toys. Good luck, Def.

The arrogance of some people never ceases to amaze.

[AVGWarhawk]

Nope. My statement is don't cry for an ambulance when you fail to beat the odds. Fight your last fight on the top of fool's hill. Here's hoping your wife doesn't inherit more than your toys. Good luck, Def.

Anyone at anytime can cry for an ambulance not matter what. Welcome to the United States. Generally most are friendly here.

[Arlo]

Anyone at anytime can cry for an ambulance not matter what. Welcome to the United States. Generally most are friendly here.

The hypocritical anti-vaxxers aren't. 'Tough 'til the going gets so.' Being an American comes with responsibility as well as rights. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

The hypocritical anti-vaxxers aren't. 'Tough 'til the going gets so.' Being an American comes with responsibility as well as rights. :up:

No, responsibility as of late is not part of being an American. This statement has nothing to do with vaccination either.

[Arlo]

The arrogance of some people never ceases to amaze.

Me neither. The definition of hubris is 'excessive pride or self-confidence.' Sound familiar Mr. 'with those odds?' I've never seen so many 'proud, tough men' scared of needles. :shucks:

[Arlo]

No, responsibility as of late is not part of being an American. This statement has nothing to do with vaccination either.

Responsibility has always been part of being an adult in society, however. Don't weave foolishness into your patriotic bravado. :up:

[Skybird]

When I look at the news from Lake Mead, I think in the forseeable future many Americans' minds will be occupied with quite different thoughts than just Joe Biden, political polarization and party games.

[AVGWarhawk]

Responsibility has always been part of being of being an adult in society,

Society is full of irresponsible adults. This is where the rule of law comes in.

[Arlo]

Society is full of irresponsible adults. This is where the rule of law comes in.

You haven't an inkling that you're opening a can of worms you won't be able to stomach, do you? :D

[August]

You haven't an inkling that you're opening a can of worms you won't be able to stomach, do you? :D


Says who, you? :haha:

[Arlo]

Says who, you? :haha:

When you're feeling ignored and you just gotta pipe in try worthless input on the discussion. Pipe up, man. You're for laws enforcing vaccination or not? :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

You haven't an inkling that you're opening a can of worms you won't be able to stomach, do you? :D

:doh:

[Arlo]

Do you support a law enforcing vaccinations or not? You put that forward as a potential way to overcome irresponsibility. :up:

[Arlo]

https://theconversation.com/with-rights-come-responsibilities-how-coronavirus-is-a-pandemic-of-hypocrisy-144270

[3catcircus]

Do you support a law enforcing vaccinations or not? You put that forward as a potential way to overcome irresponsibility. :up:

Once they've been thoroughly tested and FDA-approved - by the same exact lengthy process that every other drug or therapy has gone through that can take years to complete - even then, no.

[AVGWarhawk]

Do you support a law enforcing vaccinations or not? You put that forward as a potential way to overcome irresponsibility. :up:

Nope. It will never be a potential way.

[Arlo]

Once they've been thoroughly tested and FDA-approved - by the same exact lengthy process that every other drug or therapy has gone through that can take years to complete - even then, no.

Did you just give a rationalized 'yes but no' answer? :hmmm:

[Arlo]

Nope. It will never be a potential way.

So what was this all about?:

Society is full of irresponsible adults. This is where the rule of law comes in.

[Arlo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/18/alabama-doctor-unvaccinated-patients-valentine/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2w6cWf4vsGdjnNNbjBqjSTMY_80N93iRytGZLaZ 8rbYzl4YMejzK3m3uo

[AVGWarhawk]

So what was this all about?:

The law will not FORCE vaccinations. Sheesh....

[Arlo]

The law will not FORCE vaccinations. Sheesh....

So we agree that personal responsibility plays an important role in society, then?

Shuheesh! :)