US Politics Thread 2021-24

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't think that is all that clear.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-former-president-be-impeached-and-convicted

Impeaching is a process to remove from office. Trump is no longer in office. IMO, the process is in the wrong building. It should be in criminal court were due process is found. You won't find due process in the House.

[mapuc]

Impeaching is a process to remove from office. Trump is no longer in office. IMO, the process is in the wrong building. It should be in criminal court were due process is found. You won't find due process in the House.

?? Wasn't the upcoming impeachment an attempt to prevent former president running for Oval office in 2024 ?

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

?? Wasn't the upcoming impeachment an attempt to prevent former president running for Oval office in 2024 ?

Markus

Yes but I think the ship has sailed on that. He is out of office. I truly don' t think Trump is running again anyway. If so, run as an independent. As long as rules are being made up as they go along I guess Trump can make up some rules as he goes along as an independent. :hmmm:

IMO, I don't see him running again.

[Buddahaid]

Impeaching is a process to remove from office. Trump is no longer in office. IMO, the process is in the wrong building. It should be in criminal court were due process is found. You won't find due process in the House.

I understand there have been impeachments carried on after the person resigned from office so there is some presidence. It may have been a Judge but I haven't found it. No time to look now.

[AVGWarhawk]

I understand there have been impeachments carried on after the person resigned from office so there is some presidence. It may have been a Judge but I haven't found it. No time to look now.

:up:

[Rockstar]

IMO, I don't see him running again.

I do believe you are correct. And I do believe the purpose of a Senate trial will be too ensure zero possibility of him ever running again.


Frankly, I'm torn between the Senate proceeding and just dropping it. I firmly believe he and others have a constitutional right to march on D.C. and say the things he and others did. I do not however believe he is responsible for the actions of the few dingbats who ruined it for a lot of others.

Where I have trouble with the whole thing is the Trump campaign should have stopped dead in its tracks on December 14th as soon as the electoral college finished voting. For the good of the nation it should have ceased to make any further claims to the presidency. It should have never ever began to cast doubt on an institution and system that has for over two centuries preserved the peaceful transition of power in this country. He should have been civic minded and man enough to publicly accept the outcome and step the hell away and try again in four years. Had he, he could have been a contender. But he didn't and instead let his ego blind him to what was happening and now its gonna bite'em in the arse.

[u crank]

I truly don' t think Trump is running again anyway.

I think that is true for a number of reasons. One is his age, he'll be 78. Two he will probably get the cold shoulder from the GOP in four years. They won't want him back after all the drama has subsided.

But the main reason is probably that he has made himself unelectable. How's this for a Democrat ad in 2024. A picture of Trump smiling and giving the thumbs up sign superimposed over the 'dingbats' trashing the Capitol.

"That's gold Jerry. Gold":D

[AVGWarhawk]

I think that is true for a number of reasons. One is his age, he'll be 78. Two he will probably get the cold shoulder from the GOP in four years. They won't want him back after all the drama has subsided.

But the main reason is probably that he has made himself unelectable. How's this for a Democrat ad in 2024. A picture of Trump smiling and giving the thumbs up sign superimposed over the 'dingbats' trashing the Capitol.

"That's gold Jerry. Gold":D

With Sinatra's "I did it my way." playing in the background. :har:

Trump should start his own news station. More talking heads tell you what they want you to hear.

[mapuc]

Following comment is kind of off topic and could be placed both here and in our UK-Politics thread.

USA:
I toke a trip 10 years ahead. I did this to see who was the President in April 2025-Name Joe Biden. VP Not Kamala Harris-It was another woman I didn't get her name and why Kamala wasn't Biden's VP anymore I can't say. Had to leave

UK:
Only thing I looked at here was if UK still was independent from EU and if UK was dissolved which it wasn't - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland was still part of UK.

EU- Is still there

Back to US Politics discussion

Markus

[3catcircus]

I do believe you are correct. And I do believe the purpose of a Senate trial will be too ensure zero possibility of him ever running again.


Frankly, I'm torn between the Senate proceeding and just dropping it. I firmly believe he and others have a constitutional right to march on D.C. and say the things he and others did. I do not however believe he is responsible for the actions of the few dingbats who ruined it for a lot of others.

Where I have trouble with the whole thing is the Trump campaign should have stopped dead in its tracks on December 14th as soon as the electoral college finished voting. For the good of the nation it should have ceased to make any further claims to the presidency. It should have never ever began to cast doubt on an institution and system that has for over two centuries preserved the peaceful transition of power in this country. He should have been civic minded and man enough to publicly accept the outcome and step the hell away and try again in four years. Had he, he could have been a contender. But he didn't and instead let his ego blind him to what was happening and now its gonna bite'em in the arse.

So - Nixon did this in '60. If he had fought it, we likely wouldn't be where we are now.

Fact of that matter is that every single election has been rife with cheating, but only a guy who isn't a politician (Trump) was finally willing to call bull4hit.

If I were king for a day, every single elected official, every appointed bureaucrat, every single SES and military flag officer - they would all be thrown out.

The entire system is broken because everyone involved is a corrupt scumbag.

[Buddahaid]

Care to back any of that up? What you are really saying is people are cheating scum and some people get elected as well.

[3catcircus]

Care to back any of that up? What you are really saying is people are cheating scum and some people get elected as well.

One need only look at the $GME short squeeze, where trading was halted multiple times, where multiple brokerages artificially restricted the ability of retail investors (but not institutional investors) to buy the stock, and where some of them even forcibly sold retail investors' holdings in $GME without their permission (and not as a margin call), to see a microcosm of how the entire system is rigged.

Likewise - why is Hillary Clinton not in jail for - not just mishandling classified information - but actually running a non-governmental server containing classified information? The average person who works with classified info would have gotten in trouble for merely putting it on an unclassified system. Taking it out and putting it in an uncontrolled and unapproved system would result in jail.

We continue to see more evidence come out that the FBI Steele Dossier Carter Page FISA warrants were pursued even though they knew there was nothing there - and then they covered up their paper trail after Trump was elected. And they continued, culminating in Mueller wasted $40 million chasing crimes that never existed to begin with. Comey was fired - big deal - he came out of it just fine. Strzok was fired - and now his wife is in a prominent position in the SEC.

Don't you get it? All of these shenanigans get the peasants jail time, ruin them financially, or discredit them unfairly. The elites don't even bat an eye at the fact that other elites are doing corrupt things - because they all do it to some extent.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Yes but I think the ship has sailed on that. He is out of office. I truly don' t think Trump is running again anyway. If so, run as an independent. As long as rules are being made up as they go along I guess Trump can make up some rules as he goes along as an independent. :hmmm:

IMO, I don't see him running again.

He'd be a lameduck, already. I can't see the GOP wanting to nominate a guy who wouldn't have the capacity to get reelected.

I don't think Trump intends to run again. However, I think Trump will continue to say he will run again, and will continue asking for moniez, and at the last possible moment say he changed his mind but thanx for the moniez.

[bstanko6]

Wow... she is sleepier than Cornpop! Maybe she should run the country?

https://youtu.be/ON5QRDjuT-I

[AVGWarhawk]

He'd be a lameduck, already. I can't see the GOP wanting to nominate a guy who wouldn't have the capacity to get reelected.

I don't think Trump intends to run again. However, I think Trump will continue to say he will run again, and will continue asking for moniez, and at the last possible moment say he changed his mind but thanx for the moniez.

He has to return the moniez if he does not run.

[bstanko6]

I still can’t believe we have this sleepy, slow, ridiculous turd for four years. We deserve every bad thing he brings.

https://youtu.be/bLGHPCpo8mw

[Reece]

:har: That was a great comedy show Biden put on! :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Brian Sicknick: Officer killed in Capitol riot to lie in honour.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55866716

~SALUTE~

[mapuc]

Biden has changed some of the former President decrees I wonder if he will change all of them including moving the Ambassador back to Tel Aviv ?

Markus

[Skybird]

Biden has changed some of the former President decrees I wonder if he will change all of them including moving the Ambassador back to Tel Aviv ?

Markus
I dont know the answer to that specific question, but I fear Biden will return to Obama'S policies that were blatant reality denial as far as Iran was concerned. Obama enabled Iran to financially and technologically push forward its nuclear weapon program. I also fear that Biden will try to bog down again any changes and steps beyond the decades-lasting freeze of the Israeli-Palestinian issue by returning to Obama'S positions. Of all damages done by Obama, I always considered his ME policies and appeasement of Islam being the biggest. I see Biden returning to that, poor corrupt Palestinian Arabs, and reasonable Iranians reacting to good will and all that bull.


I would welcome him to show me wrong and surprise me by not doing all this.

[MaDef]

Biden needs Congress' consent. He cannot move the embassy on his own authority due to the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995. According to that law, the Embassy should have been moved no later than May of 1999.

[bstanko6]

But Skybird...

You should be happy!

Sure Biden is going to allow our worst enemy capabilities of killing us and starting a 3rd WW. He’s going to slow down our markets if they don’t. He’s going to destroy every single thing that was good in this country. You wanted this. According to you and others, Trump is so terrible he was absolutely destined to be removed because he is the next Hitler! Don’t have doubts now.

I don’t understand why anybody in this forum has any problems with what Joe Biden does at all. Trump is worse! So what’s the problem here? Fallout is approaching.

Yay! You should be dancing right now.

[August]

I don’t understand why anybody in this forum has any problems with what Joe Biden does at all. Trump is worse! So what’s the problem here? Fallout is approaching.

Yay! You should be dancing right now.

Criticizing the efforts of others while doing nothing about their own short comings is pretty much how the forum Euros operate these days. They don't have much else since the Brits told them to get Blexit stuffed (Bully for John Bull!)

You should have been here 10-12 years ago when they were boasting about their mighty new economic union and how the Euro would wipe us out in short order. Most of them kinda reminded me a little of Nikita Kurschev banging his shoe on the podium saying that he would bury us. :)

I think Teddy Roosevelt describes them the best:

“A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticize work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life's realities—all these are marks, not of superiority but of weakness.”

[Jeff-Groves]

Geez.
Looks like no matter who is President they are gonna be criticized and attacked.
Don't run for President Neal or you'll catch hell also!
:har:

[Mr Quatro]

Geez.
Looks like no matter who is President they are gonna be criticized and attacked.
Don't run for President Neal or you'll catch hell also!
:har:

Looking at everything in hindsight all I see is a bunch of old rich men making money off of what they think and selling advertising time for the viewers to watch and agree with the views of that network.

CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC/MSNBC and FOX

[August]

Caught with Their Hands in the Cookie Jar

The Democrats stole the election, and it’s critically important we keep saying it.
By Jeremy Carl (https://amgreatness.com/author/jeremy-carl/)

January 29, 2021
If you have a number of children, as I do, you might be familiar with something like the following scene: A child is caught red-handed doing something he shouldn’t, say, stealing a cookie from the cookie jar. When confronted, he immediately begins to deny guilt and deflect blame.
“My sister ate the cookie! I was just reaching my hand in to make sure it was gone so I could tell you,” the child might exclaim, while dusting cookie crumbs off of his shirt. If pressed about his obvious guilt, he might become angry and lash out.
This is just the sort of behavior we are witnessing from the election-rigging Democrats over the past several weeks. They scream “insurrection” and “coup” at 74.2 million Trump supporters who supposedly bear collective guilt for the actions of a few hundred rioting LARPers at the Capitol, who were immediately denounced by virtually everyone on the Right (in sharp contrast to leftist rioters over the summer, who were coddled and encouraged by the Democrats).
Meanwhile, these same election riggers have launched a “domestic terrorism” witch hunt against Trump supporters, in a clear and obvious attempt to suppress political opposition to the new regime.
Like the child with his hand in the cookie jar, the more guilty the Democrats are of “winning” a blatantly rigged election versus Donald Trump, the louder they must scream about their noble crusade to save “democracy” from “fascism.”
As commentator Glenn Greenwald recently told Tucker Carlson, “They’re trying to harness corporate and monopoly power to silence everyone who disagrees with them, the very hallmark, the epitome of the fascism they claim to be fighting, but which in reality they embody (https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/greenwald-democratic-party-the-epitome-of-fascism-they-claim-to-fight).”


The Depressing Truth

Given our current strategic situation, the fact that this election was rigged is the core message we need to proclaim, and that is—not coincidentally—why it is the one thing social media and the powers that be will not allow us to say. The reign of terror they are unleashing upon the Right is really a demand that we accept their false narrative.
And here’s an uglier and more depressing truth we need to embrace: They rigged the election in front of our very eyes because we weren’t smart enough, tough enough, and most importantly, not powerful enough to stop them. That’s something we desperately need to fix before 2024, and election integrity efforts led by Senators Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.)—not coincidentally three of the top targets of the left-wing mob—are a vital part of that effort.
To be clear, there are some important ways in which I differ from Trump and some of his supporters on the nature of the election-rigging that took place. While I have not reviewed every detail of each claim, reports that I have examined of hacked Dominion machines, mass-switched votes, or other overt fraud at the level to have changed the election results ranges from the somewhat unlikely to the outlandish. President Trump did not help his own case by amplifying some of the more implausible of these theories. But direct fraud is mostly for amateurs. The Democrats were pros, stacking the deck so heavily in advance that they could be virtually certain the cards would play out in their favor.
In this context, it is important to note the closeness of the race: just 44,000 votes (https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency) in three states, a total of 0.013 percent of the total votes cast nationwide, would have needed to be switched from Biden to Trump to have handed President Trump a victory. In a free and fair U.S. election, Donald Trump would have certainly been reelected, and probably reelected easily.
So while I remain somewhat skeptical about the mass rigging of the vote count itself, most assuredly everything else about the election was rigged.
The voter registration and the voting process was rigged: Facebook helped register more than 4.4 million voters, with a clear and substantial slant to the Democrats (https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/28/21538458/facebook-voter-registration-republican-criticism-election-2020). Meanwhile, Mark Zuckerberg (https://amgreatness.com/2021/01/24/zuckerbergs-safe-election-con/), through the Center for Technology and Civic Life (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/18/report-mark-zuckerbergs-419-million-non-profit-contributions-improperly-influenced-2020-presidential-election/), whose intricate dark money plans were revealed by the Amistad Project (https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/12/16/amistad-project-releases-report-on-mark-zuckerbergs-dark-money-in-2020-elections/), personally spent nearly $500 million on “election technology” with benefits and registration overwhelmingly going to Democratic areas, in violation of state laws (https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/21/blackwell-the-greatest-electoral-heist-in-american-history/) in many cases.
“Activist organizations created a two-tiered election system that treated voters differently depending on whether they lived in Democrat or Republican strongholds,” wrote Amistad Project director Phil Kline in the devastating report documenting the tech oligarch’s corrupt practices.
Meanwhile, Michael Bloomberg personally spent $100 million on Democrats’ get-out-the-vote efforts in Florida alone (along with $5 million going to Stacey Abrams in Georgia), all to media applause. Remember when the Democrats pretended to care about campaign finance reform?

Rigging All Around

The tech platforms were rigged. Facebook and Twitter deplatformed some of Trump’s most powerful and influential online supporters. Others, observing what happened to their comrades, self-censored. In the leadup to 2020, Reddit took down the most popular Donald Trump forums. The president’s statements were publicly challenged by the platforms and made difficult to share.
The New York Post, founded by Alexander Hamilton, had their explosive story on Hunter Biden censored and their account frozen by Twitter while Facebook censored it from newsfeeds. And of course, immediately after their successful coup, Big Tech dropped all pretense, banning the sitting president himself, and preventing him from talking to the American people from his most powerful communications channel. When the full data on Google’s search engine manipulation is released by researcher Robert Epstein in the coming months, we’ll have an even more complete picture of tech malfeasance.
The debates were rigged. The Presidential Debate Commission, as Bob Dole noted, had no Trump supporters on it. Yet we were supposed to assume the debates were “fair” despite the obvious bias in the moderators’ questions and subjects.
The public polls were rigged—and private pollsters were afraid to get crosswise of media polls. For the second straight election, Trump’s support was badly understated. These polls helped build a consensus narrative that was highly unfavorable to the president, which became self-fulfilling. Allegedly partisan GOP pollsters were more accurate.
The voting process was rigged. Numbers of rejected mail-in ballots were often an order of magnitude lower this year than in previous years. With mail-in voting being overwhelmingly done by Democrats, this was a tremendous partisan advantage. The extension of voting to weeks, rather than having it conducted only on Election Day or over a couple of days again helped the Democrats bring out their marginal voters. There were extensions of balloting before and beyond dates allowed in state constitutions. That’s to say nothing of ballot harvesting and ballot “curing” done on heretofore unprecedented scales.
The media was rigged. They relentlessly pushed Russian collusion conspiracy theories for four years while failing seriously to ask even the most basic questions of Biden concerning his mental acuity, frequent “lids,” and his views on critical policy positions such as a radical plan to pack the Supreme Court. Biden had an almost 50-year record filled with no small numbers of scandals, and the media refused to interrogate it.
The handling of COVID was rigged. From “two weeks to slow the spread” transforming into months of lockdowns, to the fact that numerous re-openings of schools, businesses, and other public forums conveniently occurred shortly after Biden took office. The lockdowns were particularly devastating to small businesses whose owners made up a powerful Trump constituency, while Biden’s Big Tech backers made billions and his government employee supporters, including powerful teachers’ unions still drew their paychecks. Months of Black Lives Matter riots were encouraged by all of the institutions of our society—even public health officials during the heart of the pandemic. Corporations gave BLM organizations more than $10 billion in 2020. These demonstrations and shows of raw, unchecked, left-wing power energized the Democrats’ base while the inaction of the authorities to stop it discouraged ours.
Some of the areas above had greater effect than others on the ultimate outcome, but without question, in totality, they provided far more than the narrow margin needed to turn a Biden “victory” into a Trump one.


A Call to Live in Truth

Of course, the Left wants us to stop “whining” and says that we are undermining confidence in our institutions, but our institutions have been at war with the American middle class for decades. In such a situation, undermining confidence in our system is not a bug, it’s a feature.
It is also no coincidence that the Republican quislings—who have played so conveniently into the Democrats’ impeachment talking points and express outrage at the president’s election rhetoric—can’t seem to muster any outrage at all for any of the systemic rigging discussed above. It’s almost as if they are happier with the uniparty, where they can play the loveable “respected” losers in a Washington Generals-Harlem Globetrotters D.C. soap opera.
Given the numerous powers arrayed against us, we have one power left—what the great Czech dissident playwright and future prime minister Vaclav Havel called, “The Power of the Powerless. (https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/1979/01/the-power-of-the-powerless.pdf)” We can refuse to live the lie the Democrats are attempting to force on us and in fact, “live in truth.” As we enter into four years of dissidence—living our lives as a real resistance, rather than the fake corporate-sponsored “resistance” of the Democrats in the Trump era, Havel’s call to live in truth, even against tremendous resistance from the corrupt establishment in both parties, will be become essential for us to embrace.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/01/29/caught-with-their-hands-in-the-cookie-jar/

[Jeff-Groves]

You know there will be MANY posts calling you a conspiracy nut now.

[Sonicfire1981]

Not even one half-sentence made a sound argument as to why the election was supposedly stolen.

I must not interfere with that; at this point, getting some in touch with reality is a lost cause.

Good luck to all americans.

[Buddahaid]

You know there will be MANY posts calling you a conspiracy nut now.

In first! :O:

:arrgh!:

[mapuc]

Hmm with my little knowledge about American Politics and former President

I would say, that the dem didn't steal the election.

Former President gave it to them freely.

Another thing

Have just seen CNN and understand there's a manhunt for the person who had planted some bomb-device outside Capitol.

Would this indicate it was planned ?

Markus

[3catcircus]

You know there will be MANY posts calling you a conspiracy nut now.


Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...


In all seriousness - we've had election shenanigans in the US probably going all the way back to George Washington's time.


Its only now that we have sufficient technology access to see real-time and near-real-time election results to actually be able to prove it. We've seen commentary from people involved in monitoring shady elections in african nations who are 100% certain that fraudulent elections occurred here.



Let's look at the various claims of election problems:


1. The easiest one - that ballots were allowed to be turned in that weren't legal because they weren't cast by the person who the ballot was provided for. This is very simple - compare the signature on the ballot to the one in the book. Does it match?
2. Claims of late ballots. It isn't hard if the mail-in ballot's postmark is past the election date to throw it out.

3. Claims of interference in the process for mail-in ballots to allow late ballots. It is crystal clear that only a legislature can change election processes in their state. Executive orders were issues in some states to change the process. It matters not one iota if it was done because of covid. In fact - we're already starting to see court rulings on this - the VA change was recently ruled illegal.
4. Claims that poll-watchers weren't allowed to see the counts or fraudulent activities took place that forced poll-watchers from the counting locations. Thousands of affidavits can't all be wrong when they are all claiming this happened.
5. Claims of counting of machine-filled-in ballots. Produce those ballots so they can be examined - anyone who has ever taken a standardized test on a Scantron form knows how impossible it is to perfectly circle in every bubble on the form.

6. Claims of ballot counts that are statistically impossible. Mathematicians and economists have commented on the would not-could not way that the counts suddenly prompt jumped for Biden while not statistically also increasing for Trump. Whether due to a bunch of illegal ballots or due to counting machine errors - doesn't matter - its still a statistical impossibility.
7. Claims of weighted counting - this can only be done if the counting machine software is specifically configured to do so.
8. Claims of dead people and out of state voters casting ballots. Seems pretty simple.
9. Claims that vote counts were tallied incorrectly when machines jammed and weren't reset properly.



Each individual anomaly listed above is unlikely to affect the outcome of an election. When you add the effect of unintentional errors and intentional interference, it still is unlikely to affect the outcome if it is randomly distributed across the entire country. That these all happened in *specific* states and that the authorities in those states refused to hear evidence in court because of "procedural errors" or "lack of standing" and authorities have already destroyed ballots and wiped counting machines should concern anyone, regardless of political affiliation.


How is it that Florida managed to get their counting done with no claims of interference within hours of the polls closing? Perhaps its because they fired the incompetents, revamped their processes, and actually monitored things ever since the 2000 election? The governor actually did his job and fired a board of elections supervisor in 2018 for being crooked and incompetent.



The *only* way to fix what is an entirely broken system is to do the following:


1. Zero out all voter rolls in every district in the entire country. Make *everyone* re-apply for a voter registration. Do it in person so signatures can be recorded.
2. Require companies making voting machines and vote tally machines to provide full source code, with all comments, for audit.
3. Go through every single claim of voting fraud from this past November - force discovery and the entering of evidence into the record - including witness affidavits and expert witness testimony.
4. Eliminate gerrymandering completely.
5. Actually monitor board of elections supervisors and get rid of those that are lazy, incompetent, or crooked.

6. Term limits for Congress - 2 x 4 years for senators, 3 x 2 years for representatives. No jumping from representative to senator when you reach your term limit.
7. Force the media to report objectively when they claim to be news and not editorial, regardless of who is running for election or who is in office.



If we as a nation don't do this, then there will continue to be a broken political system and political violence will only increase - when a portion of the population is 100% convinced that their candidate was robbed of an election and a chunk of them is willing to engage in violence, they aren't going to stop when some of them are arrested. Make no mistake - what happened on January 6th is likely to happen again because what no one wants to admit or fails to realize is that those that engaged in those acts of violence weren't a bunch of crazies - they're average citizens who apparently felt like they had no other choice because they likely felt that the entire system is corrupt and no one in a position of authority wants to listen to their grievances. Especially when they saw all year long the violence from those on the left that went completely unpunished. That, boys and girls, is how insurrections in 3rd-world countries start.



Had the opportunity presented itself, I'm willing to bet that the more violent of the bunch would have taken people hostage. That one of the key targets of their ire is a woman so tone-deaf that she happily showed her multi-thousand dollar freezer in her multi-million dollar home full of $20/pint ice cream, while representing a district that is nothing but abject poverty despite her being in office for decades supposedly making things better for them just speaks volumes as to what those rioters saw as exactly what is wrong with their elected representatives. Until elected officials actually do what is supposed to be their whole reason for being elected instead of focusing on getting re-elected to keep their gravy train running, things are going to continue to deteriorate.

[3catcircus]

Hmm with my little knowledge about American Politics and former President

I would say, that the dem didn't steal the election.

Former President gave it to them freely.

Another thing

Have just seen CNN and understand there's a manhunt for the person who had planted some bomb-device outside Capitol.

Would this indicate it was planned ?

Markus


Law enforcement knew that the violence on the 6th was planned days in advance. The reason rioters were able to get into the building was due to a combination of incompetence and rice-bowl territorialness.


DC Metro PD didn't want the national guard. Capitol PD didn't want the national guard.


We have confirmation that Trump told his secretary of defense that there should be 10,000 troops in town on the 6th because of the predicted crowd size - not even the possibility of violence, but crowd size.


Some estimates put the crowd at 100,000+. We don't know for certain because the media didn't actually show the crowd size for fear of showing how many people were there and apparently felt that the election was stolen by the Democrats i.e. - minimal to non-existent.


There are rumors that the Dems kept the fences and guardsmen there for the inauguration - not because of the potential for more violence - but because they were terrified that it would be revealed that the quantity of people showing up would be more on par with the quantity of people who showed up to Biden's rallies during the campaign.


Really what it boils down to is we currently have an unpopular president in office who will do nothing that he isn't directed to by his handlers (and they want it that way because that's the way its been for decades until Trump came along). That president has no actual voter support, no answers and no plan and is being propped up by a media that was angry for the past four years that Hillary wasn't president. We'll continue to see a media that covers for the current administration. As a result, we'll continue to see a resistance by many many citizens - some will be violent, some will be whistleblowers, some will passively-aggressively resist - this form of warrior populism isn't going away even if Trump can't run for office again - and its entirely the fault of elected officials and the media that we have a government this way instead of educated thoughtful statesmen and women and talented orators. Government isn't the province of talented and conscientious employees and elected officials - its a dumping ground for the lazy and incompetent, allowed to be that way by out of touch elitist elected officials paid to shill for crony capitalism and foreign influences.

[skidman]

7. Force the media to report objectively when they claim to be news and not editorial

Ah, force the media. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you.

[Skybird]

But Skybird...

You should be happy!

Sure Biden is going to allow our worst enemy capabilities of killing us and starting a 3rd WW. He’s going to slow down our markets if they don’t. He’s going to destroy every single thing that was good in this country. You wanted this. According to you and others, Trump is so terrible he was absolutely destined to be removed because he is the next Hitler! Don’t have doubts now.

I don’t understand why anybody in this forum has any problems with what Joe Biden does at all. Trump is worse! So what’s the problem here? Fallout is approaching.

Yay! You should be dancing right now.
And you should tune down the contrast level in your mental image, then you maybe see that there is more than just Black and White. Shades of grey. Even colours.

[Sonicfire1981]

[...] being propped up by a media that was angry for the past four years that Hillary wasn't president. We'll continue to see a media that covers for the current administration.[...]

Ah, force the media. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you.

All. world. media. The conspiracy reaches from Atlanta all the way to Zimbabwe. It is so powerful, they suppress real proof even in the private parler-chatrooms and meticulously deleted it on all the posts above; in a way you can't even tell, because the sentences are grammatically & semantically sound & coherent. Are you afraid? You should be.
The only ones not affected outside of the US are right wing groups rallying around fascists (e.g. in Germany. One posted on twitter: "Joe Biden is not my president", to which A newspaper responded "That is correct - your presidents name is Frank Walter Steinmeier". I thought that was hillarious and I share.)

[3catcircus]

Ah, force the media. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you.

Fair enough. You can't force them. But you can allow media with alternative viewpoints - something that leftists and techno-oligarchs desperately have been trying to stop, with the deplatforming on social media going on, the antifa terrorists interfering with conservative speakers on college campuses, the recent arrest of a guy for a meme, etc.

The big media like CNN and Fox don't even pretend that they're objectively reporting. Stop trying to tell me what opinion I should have and just tell me the facts.

Because that is the problem now - leftists aren't willing to debate. They only want their opinion coming out of your mouth...

[Skybird]

Because that is the problem now - leftists aren't willing to debate. They only want their opinion coming out of your mouth...
Same goes for the orange legion.

[Rockstar]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...


In all seriousness - we've had election shenanigans in the US probably going all the way back to George Washington's time.


Its only now that we have sufficient technology access to see real-time and near-real-time election results to actually be able to prove it. We've seen commentary from people involved in monitoring shady elections in african nations who are 100% certain that fraudulent elections occurred here.



Let's look at the various claims of election problems:





Here is a time magazine article detailing some of the complaints INCLUDING links to the the actual complaint affidavits filed in the various states.


https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/


In a nut shell I found some irregularities and requests to stop counting ballots and placement of observers. If you can find any where in these complaints evidence of voter fraud, PLEASE do tell. I get it, its politics and I would expect nothing less from these kinds of people. But unless there was some hard evidence of voter fraud the likes of which changed the course of the election. Then come December 14th right after the electoral college cast their votes and the results known. Then the theatrics, drama, political b.s. name calling and accusations STOPS and the nation moves on. Just because someone has a constitutional rights to march, protest and speak . Doesn't mean its always the right thing to do. They got to know when to keep their mouths shut and move on.

[Buddahaid]

Here is a time magazine article detailing some of the complaints INCLUDING links to the the actual complaint affidavits filed in the various states.

https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/


In a nut shell I found some irregularities and requests to stop counting ballots and placement of observers. If you can find any where in these complaints evidence of voter fraud, PLEASE do tell. I get it, its politics and I would expect nothing less from these kinds of people. But unless there was some hard evidence of voter fraud the likes of which changed the course of the election. Then come December 14th right after the electoral college cast their votes and the results known. Then the theatrics, drama, political b.s. name calling and accusations STOPS and the nation moves on. Just because someone has a constitutional rights to march, protest and speak . Doesn't mean its always the right thing to do. They got to know when to keep their mouths shut and move on.

That link isn't working for me.

[Rockstar]

That link isn't working for me.


fixed it, sorry. https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/

[August]

You know there will be MANY posts calling you a conspiracy nut now.


I didn't say I agreed with the article, some of it I guess, but he's is definitely not alone in his beliefs and unless the many irregularities in the election are investigated completely and openly it will continue to fester in the heart of this nation.

[bstanko6]

Let’s forget the word fraud. Let’s forget the word rigging. Let’s just look at it this way, if the state doesn’t follow their own laws on election night… Then that should be enough to stop the count redo it and try again.

Counting past the legal time that you can count. Counting when there’s no judge in the room. Using sharpies when it should be a ball point pen on a form. Pulling out several in checked baggages of ballots in the middle of the night. Changing the rules about mail in ballots last minute. Allowing people who are dead to count. Along people who cannot validate their US citizenship.

Let’s not called it evidence. Let’s just call rules that were bent or broken or otherwise. If that’s the case, let’s not charge anybody anything, let’s not go after anyone’s job. Just redo the count under the proper laws. What’s wrong with that?

Again, it’s not about whether or not you feel there’s evidence. If the people want a recount, if they want someone to look into the way states handle their elections, there should be no question.

[3catcircus]

Let’s forget the word fraud. Let’s forget the word rigging. Let’s just look at it this way, if the state doesn’t follow their own laws on election night… Then that should be enough to stop the count redo it and try again.

Counting past the legal time that you can count. Counting when there’s no judge in the room. Using sharpies when it should be a ball point pen on a form. Pulling out several in checked baggages of ballots in the middle of the night. Changing the rules about mail in ballots last minute. Allowing people who are dead to count. Along people who cannot validate their US citizenship.

Let’s not called it evidence. Let’s just call rules that were bent or broken or otherwise. If that’s the case, let’s not charge anybody anything, let’s not go after anyone’s job. Just redo the count under the proper laws. What’s wrong with that?

Again, it’s not about whether or not you feel there’s evidence. If the people want a recount, if they want someone to look into the way states handle their elections, there should be no question.

This. There shouldn't even be the *appearance* of impropriety.

[Von Due]

Statistics was mentioned above. About statistics and a certain election
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etx0k1nLn78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aokNwKx7gM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5aOFi-DKs

Yes, Matt Parker mixes comedy with maths but he does know his maths.

[3catcircus]

Statistics was mentioned above. About statistics and a certain election
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etx0k1nLn78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aokNwKx7gM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5aOFi-DKs

Yes, Matt Parker mixes comedy with maths but he does know his maths.

I completely agree with his assessment. The issue isn't that Trump should have won Chicago. You *expect* Dems to do well in a city - especially one that is as crooked as Chicago. Now so that analysis for outlying areas in the suburbs surrounding Chicago and the rest of the state. Do it for every state. I think you'll find that, whether intentional or due to unintentional errors, that the counts in suburban and rural areas isn't quite right in several states - because it's a statistical impossibility that Biden got more votes than Obama.

[Sonicfire1981]

[...] because it's a statistical impossibility that Biden got more votes than Obama.

I shouldn't: why would that be?

[Von Due]

especially one that is as crooked as Chicago.

Awfully close to the True Scotsman there, aren't we?

The 2nd video addresses an analysis on 4 different counties in Michigan.

The issue is, these flawed arguements form the basis of many of the fraud claims. If someone can't work out the correct statistical analysis in one case, would you trust them to work it out correctly in any case? Still, this is exactly what is happening. Too many trust these flawed claims to hold true.

[3catcircus]

I shouldn't: why would that be?

What would be the basis of garnering more votes than Obama when there was zero traction when Biden was in the campaign trail?

We have video of who actually showed up to his speeches and rallies and the number of people there was underwhelming.

[Sonicfire1981]

What would be the basis of garnering more votes than Obama when there was zero traction when Biden was in the campaign trail?

We have video of who actually showed up to his speeches and rallies and the number of people there was underwhelming.

What you fail to see: Many, many voted against Trump, so that fellas 35k Rallies count towards Biden as well.
Also: you're using the word "statistical" wrong.

[August]

Many, many voted against Trump, so that fellas 35k Rallies count towards Biden as well.


What? :hmmm:



How many Biden voters do you figure were attending Trump rallies?

[Sonicfire1981]

What? :hmmm:



How many Biden voters do you figure were attending Trump rallies?

None. But the pictures/videos did a good job at scaring off people. (See a crowd cheering to nonsense might some people lose faith in their peers and rather vote themselves.)
Those that actually stood there propably died. sheds a bit of a different light on "dead voter fraud", hm?

[mapuc]

I'm convinced and it's based on what I have read in our former US-Politics thread, among my friends on FB and what have been said in the news that...
Thousand of those who voted Dem-don't care about the Dem or Biden-they voted to get rid of the former President.

I could be wrong.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

I'm not convinced the election was fraud-free, there are too many statistical anomalies and weirdness but without hard evidence that is out in the public eye, is there any point?

[Von Due]

I'm convinced and it's based on what I have read in our former US-Politics thread, among my friends on FB and what have been said in the news that...
Thousand of those who voted Dem-don't care about the Dem or Biden-they voted to get rid of the former President.

I could be wrong.

Markus

I believe you are correct. Remember how, even here on this forum, people didn't always vote for Trump as much as they voted against Hillary. It worked then, no reason it wouldn't work later.

[u crank]

Those that actually stood there propably died.

You're joking right? If not perhaps you have some evidence for such a silly statement.

[Buddahaid]

I haven't watched all of the videos but in the second one it appears to me a false premise to assume those who didn't vote party line would vote with the same percentages as those who did. Calling that a "stolen" vote? I didn't vote for Clinton in 2016 so I guess my vote was "stolen".

[Sonicfire1981]

You're joking right? If not perhaps you have some evidence for such a silly statement.

Don't call it silly, you're breaking the rules.

https://www.merkur.de/bilder/2020/06/10/13794761/753213008-coronavirus-usa-noch-im-februar-hatte-trump-wahlkampfveranstaltungen-abgehalte-MpbWzB8Mma6.jpg

[August]

Don't call it silly, you're breaking the rules


But the virus has like a 99% survival rate and only a 7-8% infection rate so saying that these people "probably" died is a really silly thing to say.

[u crank]

Don't call it silly, you're breaking the rules.


But I didn't call you silly did I? I said your statement was silly. There's a difference.

You said "Those that actually stood there propably died." Any proof that it happened. Second time I am asking.

[Sonicfire1981]

But the virus has like a 99% survival rate and only a 7-8% infection rate so saying that these people "probably" died is a really silly thing to say.

So given any 35.000 people staying home where possible, avoiding crowds, wearing masks and using desinfectant (*not* intravenous) would have the same deathrate? You think?

[August]

So given any 35.000 people staying home where possible, avoiding crowds, wearing masks and using desinfectant (*not* intravenous) would have the same deathrate? You think?


Did you need heavy equipment to move those goalposts bud? You claimed they PROBABLY died. Can't you liberals ever admit you exaggerate?

[Buddahaid]

Did you need heavy equipment to move those goalposts bud? You claimed they PROBABLY died. Can't you liberals ever admit you exaggerate?

That's pretty funny given the exaggeration of voter fraud spewed by the previous administration.

[Sonicfire1981]

You said "Those that actually stood there propably died." Any proof that it happened. Second time I am asking.

The thing with proof is, common sense and a grasp of reality is needed - not the strong suit of an average trump supporter.

You have 4,xx% of the worlds population, but 25% of cases, both death and otherwise. The man responsible, "the greatest president of all times (except maybe Lincoln, whe he was wearing the hat)" (talk about exaggeration), is world famous for not taking it seriously.
His rallies are kinda the epicenter. and btw: 99% survival rate is a bit (exaggeration...) off.

[Jeff-Groves]

The thing with proof is, common sense and a grasp of reality is needed - not the strong suit of an average trump supporter.


Wow. I almost feel insulted.
:haha:

[MaDef]

But I didn't call you silly did I? I said your statement was silly. There's a difference.

You said "Those that actually stood there propably died." Any proof that it happened. Second time I am asking.
The evidence is that the media reported every rally as a covid-19 super spreader event.

[Sonicfire1981]

The evidence is that the media reported every rally as a covid-19 super spreader event.

You accidently spelled "common sense" as "media"

[MaDef]

The thing with proof is, common sense and a grasp of reality is needed - not the strong suit of an average trump supporter.

You have 4,xx% of the worlds population, but 25% of cases, both death and otherwise. The man responsible, "the greatest president of all times (except maybe Lincoln, whe he was wearing the hat)" (talk about exaggeration), is world famous for not taking it seriously.
His rallies are kinda the epicenter. and btw: 99% survival rate is a bit (exaggeration...) off.

if you delve into the numbers the survival rate is probably higher, deaths / confirmed cases comes out to about 1.6% mortality rate. If you extrapolate for the cases that aren't "confirmed", then the mortality rate is probably closer to .8%. (that's for the United States) rates will fluctuate due locale.

[u crank]

You accidently spelled "common sense" as "media"

When a Republican is in the White House the media tries to emulate Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein.

When a Democrat is in the White House the media does a spot on impersonation of Monica Lewinsky.

[Jeff-Groves]

When a Democrat is in the White House the media does a spot on impersonation of Monica Lewinsky.
Are you saying they suck?
:har:

[Aktungbby]

your linguistics beats my semantics! :arrgh!:

[August]

That's pretty funny given the exaggeration of voter fraud spewed by the previous administration.


Well we don't really know if it was an exaggeration as long as the Democrats keep stonewalling all investigations now do we? :03:

[Catfish]

Are you saying they suck?
:har:
Clinton: "Two impeachments and not even one ... ?"

[Buddahaid]

Well we don't really know if it was an exaggeration as long as the Democrats keep stonewalling all investigations now do we? :03:

It's over and none of the lawsuits sorted anything. I know many will never accept it but it's still over. Even Lyndsey Graham made fun of it.

[Jeff-Groves]

your linguistics beats my semantics! :arrgh!:

Well I am a Cunning Linguist.
:salute:

[skidman]

The thread is moving in a promising direction. :smug:

[Jeff-Groves]

The thread is moving in a promising direction. :smug:
Are you saying it is going into a deep but tastily desirable valley?
:haha:

[Mr Quatro]

The thread is moving in a promising direction. :smug:

In this case the democrats are sucking on an empty gasoline tank :yep:

[Sonicfire1981]

In this case the democrats are sucking on an empty gasoline tank :yep:

It's a dying industry anyways

[Jeff-Groves]

Actually the production of plastic Gasoline tanks is up and rising.
The fabrication of metal tanks are focused on older model Cars and truck so becoming a niche market with great profit potential.
If you believe the oil industry is dying anytime in our life times? Your delusional.
And I mean that as an unshakable belief in something untrue.
So not a personal insult. As if I care how you take it.

[Sonicfire1981]

Actually the production of plastic Gasoline tanks is up and rising.
The fabrication of metal tanks are focused on older model Cars and truck so becoming a niche market with great profit potential.
If you believe the oil industry is dying anytime in our life times? Your delusional.
And I mean that as an unshakable belief in something untrue.
So not a personal insult. As if I care how you take it.

I plan on getting really old, so I just might. I'm also fairly certain that some peers of my grandkids will know about diesel engines the way some youngsters today know about floppy disks ("look! someone 3d-printed a save-button")

You're so lucky to have an administration believing and investing in renewables. niche-independent.

[3catcircus]

I'm not convinced the election was fraud-free, there are too many statistical anomalies and weirdness but without hard evidence that is out in the public eye, is there any point?

Even if it doesn't change the outcome of the 2020 election, it should all be investigated so that even the appearance of it never happens again.

The evidence is there - either it proves fraud or it proves no fraud, but the evidence needs to see the inside of a court room with discovery occurring.

[3catcircus]

if you delve into the numbers the survival rate is probably higher, deaths / confirmed cases comes out to about 1.6% mortality rate. If you extrapolate for the cases that aren't "confirmed", then the mortality rate is probably closer to .8%. (that's for the United States) rates will fluctuate due locale.

This. Unless you've spent time in the US, you generally don't appreciate the vastness of it in comparison the most European countries. It takes longer to drive across Texas than it does to drive from Rome to Berlin, the example.

Likewise, of population density is much much lower than European or Asian countries in most cases.

Because of this, it's very very likely that 100x as many people have gotten covid than has been reported. Many people never knew they had it until they got tested it of curiosity. I've heard lots of anecdotal "I think I had it, I felt awful for two days earlier this year" from various people. Then they got tested and lo and behold, they've got the antibodies...

It doesn't help that reporting of covid cases became political and/or there was a perverse financial incentive for medical facilities to report as many covid-19 cases as they could.

[Buddahaid]

As long as there is a close race someone will always say there was fraud. How do you dress that pig up so there is no appearance of fraud if people keep insisting there was? Sure pass some new laws etc. but that still won't stop the complaints. Investigate every election? That won't stop it either as the investigation will be contested as partisan politics and not fair.

[Buddahaid]

This. Unless you've spent time in the US, you generally don't appreciate the vastness of it in comparison the most European countries. It takes longer to drive across Texas than it does to drive from Rome to Berlin, the example.

Likewise, of population density is much much lower than European or Asian countries in most cases.

Because of this, it's very very likely that 100x as many people have gotten covid than has been reported. Many people never knew they had it until they got tested it of curiosity. I've heard lots of anecdotal "I think I had it, I felt awful for two days earlier this year" from various people. Then they got tested and lo and behold, they've got the antibodies...

It doesn't help that reporting of covid cases became political and/or there was a perverse financial incentive for medical facilities to report as many covid-19 cases as they could.

Hospitals are required to report cases. It's not an option and it's not a particularly welcome change dictating modification of rooms and procedures, suspension of elective surgeries, shortages of PPE and parts to maintain the PPE. Staff having exposure anyway and self isolating creating staffing shortages, etc.

[Commander Wallace]

^ that post reminds me of a funny comment. Allegedly, When Obama was running for office against Cain. Sarah Palin made an insulting comment toward the Democrats. Obama replied, " you can put lipstick on a pig but in the end, it's still a pig. " :haha:

[Catfish]

Actually the production of plastic Gasoline tanks is up and rising.
The fabrication of metal tanks are focused on older model Cars and truck so becoming a niche market with great profit potential.
If you believe the oil industry is dying anytime in our life times? Your delusional.
And I mean that as an unshakable belief in something untrue.
So not a personal insult. As if I care how you take it.
Using plastic everywhere is is not a universally good idea if you think of microplastics getting into the food chain, and all this plastic trash and bags littering the oceans.

But it is generally a better idea to use crude oil and its derivatives for plastics and medicine (aspirine and paracetamol and thousands of others are now made of oil) rather than burning it.
We have this amount of oxygen in the atmosphere because so much plants were buried by sediment or whatever without being oxidised. Burning it is, apart from reducing the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere, the greenhouse effect and ecological disasters like e.g. in Nigeria, a waste.

I agree the sheer mass that is being burnt is still high and will not go down soon very fast. Unfortunately.

[vienna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LqK8GiIMYw





<O>

[Reece]

Poo! video not available to watch in Australia. :doh:

[vienna]

Poo! video not available to watch in Australia. :doh:


Sorry about that; my guess is, perhaps, if SNL is shown at all in your area, it may be on a pay/premium service of some kind and NBC/Universal (the parent company that owns SNL) is trying to ensure they get their cut on any airing, even of segments; there are a number of YT videos regarding the segment I posted, some with various clips from the whole segment; if you got to YT and search for "SNL Kate McKinnon" and then click on the "Filter" feature to sort by "Upload Date", you'll find a goodly number of clips reporting on the segment; I would have posted links to those clips, but there are many and, even then, I am not sure which would be available in your area...


Regarding the claims of election fraud by the Trump minions, it should be noted that Dominion Voting Systems, who manufacture the hardware and software for the voting machines the minions and Trumpettes moan and bitch and whine about, has taken a very hard line on the claims that have been made and are now filing massive defamation/slander suits against those who have been propagating the fraud claims; notably, Trump's former attorney, Sidney Powell and current attorney, Rudy Giuliani, have been served with suits and there could be more in the wings...

I, for one, find this to be a good development; there have been some 60-odd lawsuits filed by Trump, his minions, and/or the GOP making claims about alleged voter fraud and with the exception of one suit, they have all been rejected by the courts (the lone "victory" was a suit where the Trump camp lost on the fraud claims but got the court to issue an order to preserve the vote documentation in a particular state, even though there was no indication at all the documentation was under any threat of destruction; the judge seemed to have issued the order as a 'peacekeeping' appeasement of Trumpers); the main problem for the Trump camp has been they have been all talk and no substance; in all of the cases, when the courts asked them to provide verifiable, substantial evidence and/or proof of their allegations, the Trump/minion/Trumpette/GOP plaintiffs have repeatedly either refused to provide such evidence and/or proof or have attempted to provide such flimsy substantiation as to make the courts seriously doubt the veracity and substance of the claims; remember, in US courts, before a case is sent to trail, there is always a preliminary hearing (in criminal cases, an arraignment) where the plaintiffs/prosecutors must show the court there is sufficient cause for the court to authorize the expenditure of the court system's time and resources in pursuit of a judgement; this is done to mitigate the filing of frivolous, nonsensical, or moot actions and wasting the court's time (and taxpayer money) chasing chimera; in the case(s) of the election fraud claims, none of those representing the fraud claims have been willing and/or able to present anything even remotely able to pass a court's 'sniff test' for viability to a final judgement; even the highly publicized request for a filing with SCOTUS was turned down by SCOTUS on the grounds Texas had no Constitution standing for such a filing; all the justices concurred wit the exception of Justices Alito and Thomas, and even they noted their objection was over procedure and not substance (they felt SCOTUS should have at least let Texas file the brief) and they did make specific note that while they questioned the process, they would not have granted the relief sought by Texas and that their objection to the process did not express their view on any other issue of the question...

...and, all that makes the prospect of the Dominion lawsuits so interesting: if and when the suits go to trial, the defendants (Powell, Giuliani, et el) will be compelled to prove their allegations, under sworn oath, in open court or be faced with severe financial consequences (in Giuliana's case the asked for damages is some USD $1.6 Billion dollars); the prospect of at least any one of the voter fraud allegators having to actually provide indisputable proof of their claims in court, under oath, will be interesting, indeed; the braying, whining, bitching, and moaning Trumpers have so far refused to "shut up" about their nonsense, so its now time for someone to make them "put up" and see if they've got any cattle to back up their hat, and I'm glad Dominion Voting Systems got angry enough to make it happen...





<O>

[August]

^ that post reminds me of a funny comment. Allegedly, When Obama was running for office against Cain.


Not funny, not Cain, (it was John McCain), and what Obama said was misogynistic and sexist.

[Catfish]

^ unless a redneck says it, then it's funny as hell and all others are pc snowflakes :D

[August]

^ unless a redneck says it, then it's funny as hell and all others are pc snowflakes :D


Uhm, no, it's not funny then either sorry.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm not convinced the election was fraud-free, there are too many statistical anomalies and weirdness but without hard evidence that is out in the public eye, is there any point?

Biden campaigned from his basement. He had no real agenda to offer when he was permitted by his handlers to speak. It was by and large garbled promises. His rallies draws little to nothing. Harris' rallies even less. I believe the many states in question were of very little help in demonstrating there was no fraud as they were in demonstrating there was fraud. We are told the election by mail in ballot was the securest we have ever seen. Last Friday a friend of mine received 3 Christmas cards in the mail dated Jan 9. You mean to tell me all ballots by mail found their way to the ballot box? This does not mean ballots for Biden as well as for Trump were not late for counting, thrown out or left out on a tarmac like we have seen mail in the past. I can assure you that every election from here on out will be suspect more so than we have seen in the past.

[AVGWarhawk]

In other news it is to my understanding Pelosi purchased a large amount of Tesla stocks just a day before Biden penned off another EO. This EO states all government vehicles will be electric. Is this insider trading? If Pelosi did in fact purchase the stocks for Tesla just a day before the EO, it is insider trading. Martha Stewart spent time in jail for something similar. Ethics concerns be damned.

https://money.yahoo.com/nancy-pelosi-buys-tesla-calls-191017279.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADu0m0YGD5xcrEDicsJd6EkEwYtr S2F4fTmOl5Y8YaKwtvF-T9f5J98esmO2Bww5DAaSg_3lzQ0IaH_eNk1MynAWqMvyVirKdG 4XutWaLP5sTm6NjOSthZAglqilHiFO0oz3w8hfYVv2JV7GWLJx URnTzniSva3GJXUcHTqvbCEE

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/nancy-pelosi-discloses-1-million-call-options-tesla-stock-2021-1-1029998372

[August]

Our Vice President wants to put our coal miners to work clearing the many land mines in Virginia. Probably left over from the Civil War. :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

Our Vice President wants to put our coal miners to work clearing the many land mines in Virginia. Probably left over from the Civil War. :yep:

That is a terrific idea. Similar to a trap door in a canoe

[Sonicfire1981]

In other news it is to my understanding Pelosi purchased a large amount of Tesla stocks just a day before Biden penned off another EO. This EO states all government vehicles will be electric. Is this insider trading? If Pelosi did in fact purchase the stocks for Tesla just a day before the EO, it is insider trading. Martha Stewart spent time in jail for something similar. Ethics concerns be damned.


I bought Tesla stocks as well. Pretty obvious move, the EO, wasn't it? If I leave the house on a cloudy day, take an umbrella and it starts raining - is this insider-dressing?

[AVGWarhawk]

I bought Tesla stocks as well. Pretty obvious move, the EO, wasn't it? If I leave the house on a cloudy day, take an umbrella and it starts raining - is this insider-dressing?

Pelosi purchased the day before the EO was signed. Do you think perhaps Biden discussed any of this with those on Capitol Hill? I would think so yes. Ethically, there is a concern here.

[u crank]

I bought Tesla stocks as well. Pretty obvious move, the EO, wasn't it? If I leave the house on a cloudy day, take an umbrella and it starts raining - is this insider-dressing?

You and Nancy Pelosi are not the same. She has a very high position in the US government and is in the same party as the current President.

She and her husband should have known better.

[AVGWarhawk]

You and Nancy Pelosi are not the same. She has a very high position in the US government and is in the same party as the current President.

She and her husband should have known better.

Absolutely.

[Mr Quatro]

You and Nancy Pelosi are not the same. She has a very high position in the US government and is in the same party as the current President.

She and her husband should have known better.

First thanks to Warhawk for pointing out this potential embarrassing problem and the obvious tit for tat impeachment it could cause, but with Nancy being as high as she is and the numbers game in play right now for the impeachment of Donald Trump ...

The only way she could receive punishment is from her own left wing liberal tribe of the DNC and that ain't going to happen till 2022 with a swing of the Congress into the GOP's favor, but look at what they are doing to Trump after he leaves office ... :o

Couldn't that apply to little Miss I ain't done anything wrong lady Nancy :yep:

[bstanko6]

Wow! now the Dems are going to pack the courts!

Yeah... that's what Hitler would do.

[ET2SN]

Um, you think she might want to make sure the plant stays in California? :smug:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Fremont_Factory

[ET2SN]

Wow! now the Dems are going to pack the courts!

Yeah... that's what Hitler would do.

I wonder where the Dems learned how to do that? :haha:
Did the last admin. install a bunch of judges? :hmmm:

[Mr Quatro]

Telsa has more secrets than Nancy does :yep:

Tesla’s dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn’t come from selling cars

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/02/01/teslas-dirty-little-secret-its-net-profit-doesnt-come-from-selling-cars/

Tesla posted its first full year of net income in 2020 — but not because of sales to its customers.

Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory credits from another automaker that meets those requirements — such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.

It’s a lucrative business for Tesla — bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million — meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.

“These guys are losing money selling cars. They’re making money selling credits. And the credits are going away,” said Gordon Johnson of GLJ Research and one of the biggest bears on Tesla shares.

[August]

I wonder where the Dems learned how to do that? :haha:
Did the last admin. install a bunch of judges? :hmmm:


Actually no they didn't, the Repubs just filled existing judicial openings. The Dems want to add brand new justices to change the political makeup of the courts. Increase the Supreme Court from nine to fifteen and so forth.

[AVGWarhawk]

Actually no they didn't, the Repubs just filled existing judicial openings. The Dems want to add brand new justices to change the political makeup of the courts. Increase the Supreme Court from nine to fifteen and so forth.

Similar to "redistricting" in some states to sway a majority from county to county. Stacking the deck as it were.

[August]

Similar to "redistricting" in some states to sway a majority from county to county. Stacking the deck as it were.


Yeah. They're doing the same thing with Congress by trying to make DC into a state. A district created specifically so that it wouldn't be part of any state they want to make into a state because you know, politics.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah. They're doing the same thing with Congress by trying to make DC into a state. A district created specifically so that it wouldn't be part of any state they want to make into a state because you know, politics.

And PR really soon!

[3catcircus]

As long as there is a close race someone will always say there was fraud. How do you dress that pig up so there is no appearance of fraud if people keep insisting there was? Sure pass some new laws etc. but that still won't stop the complaints. Investigate every election? That won't stop it either as the investigation will be contested as partisan politics and not fair.

There are very simple and easy ways to ensure no fraud occurs.

1. Require every adult to vote, by law, with a fine for not doing so.
2. Require every voter to show proof of ID and proof of signature.
3. Electronic voting machines must not be accessible unless you are physically connecting in person at the machine and manufacturers must publish source code in its entirety.
4. Electronic ballot counting machines must meet the same criteria as electronic voting machines.
5. The laws that are on the books in each state must be adhered to 100% with no exceptions and poll workers should be required by law to report all suspected instances of fraud.
6. All voter rolls must be 100% destroyed and everyone must reapply - it's the only way to eliminate dead people, out of state people, illegal aliens, or the possibility of exploiting the vulnerable.
7. All existing poll workers and supervisors of elections need to be removed from their duties until they've been properly trained.
8. Security cameras shall record over every counting station and shall be maintained for 5 years before being destroyed.
9. Ballots shall be maintained for 5 years before being destroyed.
10. Poll workers shall be randomly assigned from a pool to report to a polling station within 25 miles of their home.

[3catcircus]

Hospitals are required to report cases. It's not an option and it's not a particularly welcome change dictating modification of rooms and procedures, suspension of elective surgeries, shortages of PPE and parts to maintain the PPE. Staff having exposure anyway and self isolating creating staffing shortages, etc.

Its not that cases are required to be reported that is a problem.

It's the criteria being used coupled with the fact that humans are lazy. CDC at one point directed that if someone was lab-positive, those in close contact could be reported as cases even if they hadn't been confirmed.

Some places were reporting multiple positives of the same individual as multiple cases.

Some places were reporting "died with" the same as "died from," even when the cause of death was a car crash or brain cancer.

Some places were using PCR Ct in the 40s as the cutoff when studies from earlier in the year proved any Ct over (I seem to recall) 24 with the patient having contracted it more than a week prior to be not actual infective cases.

We also have cases that are cause positives because PCR tests were replicating viral debris from people who had covid and recovered weeks earlier.

We have instances of states dumping data showing thousands of "new" cases when many of those cases were from weeks or months prior to the data dump.

We have instances of medical facilities reporting everything as a covid case because of federal financial aid - and no one is going to go and look at diagnosis codes and recoup payments unless there public points out that the death was a "with covid-19" which had no bearing on the outcome, such as gang-involved shootings, car crashes involving catastrophic injury, etc.

Who is going to through all of this with a fine-toothed comb to correct it? Not one single hospital administrator or public health department bureaucrat is going to lift a finger.

[Sonicfire1981]

Wow! now the Dems are going to pack the courts!

Yeah... that's what Hitler would do.

Nazi-Card. Remember?
You would not want me to point out that repeating lies over and over ("election was stolen." "my inauguration crowd was the biggest", "no one has ever done more for this country") was a move perfected by Goebbels.

Besides, Hitler would have just removed the judges he did not like and given them a new job & permanent address.

[August]

There are very simple and easy ways to ensure no fraud occurs.

1. Require every adult to vote, by law, with a fine for not doing so.
2. Require every voter to show proof of ID and proof of signature.
3. Electronic voting machines must not be accessible unless you are physically connecting in person at the machine and manufacturers must publish source code in its entirety.
4. Electronic ballot counting machines must meet the same criteria as electronic voting machines.
5. The laws that are on the books in each state must be adhered to 100% with no exceptions and poll workers should be required by law to report all suspected instances of fraud.
6. All voter rolls must be 100% destroyed and everyone must reapply - it's the only way to eliminate dead people, out of state people, illegal aliens, or the possibility of exploiting the vulnerable.
7. All existing poll workers and supervisors of elections need to be removed from their duties until they've been properly trained.
8. Security cameras shall record over every counting station and shall be maintained for 5 years before being destroyed.
9. Ballots shall be maintained for 5 years before being destroyed.
10. Poll workers shall be randomly assigned from a pool to report to a polling station within 25 miles of their home.


1. Disagree. People should not be forced to vote. Democracy only works with interested and willing participants making informed choices. Anyone who has to be forced into it is not going to care.
2. Agree.
3-4. Meh. IMO there shouldn't be any scheme involving electronic balloting that does not produce a completed hard copy which can be examined by the voter to ensure it's accuracy before they put it into the counting machine. Those we keep for a decade in case anyone wants to go back and perform their own recount.
6. Agree that rolls should be regularly purged.
8. Agree.
9. A decade would be better.
10. Sounds complicated and expensive. Also how does that work in areas with more than 25 miles between poll locations?

[3catcircus]

1. Disagree. People should not be forced to vote. Democracy only works with interested and willing participants making informed choices. Anyone who has to be forced into it is not going to care.
2. Agree.
3-4. Meh. IMO there shouldn't be any scheme involving electronic balloting that does not produce a completed hard copy which can be examined by the voter to ensure it's accuracy before they put it into the counting machine. Those we keep for a decade in case anyone wants to go back and perform their own recount.
6. Agree that rolls should be regularly purged.
8. Agree.
9. A decade would be better.
10. Sounds complicated and expensive. Also how does that work in areas with more than 25 miles between poll locations?

As to required voting - Australia, for example, requires everyone to vote which equates to a voter turnout rate well above 90%, and this goes back to the 1920s. You won't get 100%, but the more you get, the less the possibility of shenanigans because there are fewer ballots you can play with.

No issue with voting spitting out a paper ballot record, but if it is electronic, it could easily be coded to spit out what the voter entered while electronically selecting a different candidate. The key is the source code needs to be auditable.

In regards to poll workers, it generally isn't an issue in less populated areas where everyone knows everyone else in the region.

Compare that to a place like Philly which has 700 polling places where the same workers have been in the same precincts forever and most of them are corrupt because of the Dem machine influence. You randomly assign poll workers to those precincts and now they don't know who they're working with so there is the unknown of whether or not coworkers are going to turn in crooked workers.

You make it so there is no possibility of collusion due to lack of familiarity amongst the people working and a smaller chance of corruption as a target of opportunity because you never know if the guy sitting next to you is going to report you for changing the count to favor one candidate over another.

[August]

No issue with voting spitting out a paper ballot record, but if it is electronic, it could easily be coded to spit out what the voter entered while electronically selecting a different candidate. The key is the source code needs to be auditable.


Of course it can but that's the whole point of the paper ballot. It allows others to make their own counts later on. Bush v. Gore was a good example. Those Florida ballots were recounted something like a dozen times by various media organizations and investigators. It's much more difficult to get away with spinning paper ballot numbers. They are what they are and anyone can expose the lie if there is one. It's the reliance on electronics that opens the real opportunities for fraud and a whole lot harder to track published source codes or not.


In regards to poll workers, it generally isn't an issue in less populated areas where everyone knows everyone else in the region.

Compare that to a place like Philly which has 700 polling places where the same workers have been in the same precincts forever and most of them are corrupt because of the Dem machine influence. You randomly assign poll workers to those precincts and now they don't know who they're working with so there is the unknown of whether or not coworkers are going to turn in crooked workers.

You make it so there is no possibility of collusion due to lack of familiarity amongst the people working and a smaller chance of corruption as a target of opportunity because you never know if the guy sitting next to you is going to report you for changing the count to favor one candidate over another.But most poll workers are volunteers, many of them elderly. While I agree with the effort to break up the corruption machine i think it would be a pretty tough sell to get people willing to travel outside their district. Expensive too when you think of the bureaucracy and even security required.

[bstanko6]

I think we should go back to how the founding fathers intended....

Land owners only vote.

You must own (have deed) to property. With ID to verify.

You wouldn’t have half the issues we have now.

“No house to show... no communism bro!” - Bstanko6

[ET2SN]

Actually no they didn't, the Repubs just filled existing judicial openings. The Dems want to add brand new justices to change the political makeup of the courts. Increase the Supreme Court from nine to fifteen and so forth.

Maybe next time, win the election? :O:

[3catcircus]

I think we should go back to how the founding fathers intended....

Land owners only vote.

You must own (have deed) to property. With ID to verify.

You wouldn’t have half the issues we have now.

“No house to show... no communism bro!” - Bstanko6

I could get behind this. Then again, the founders probably never expected corruption in government to get as bad as it is before citizens "fixed the glitch."

[August]

Maybe next time, win the election? :O:


Will you say the same in 4 years when the Repubs are back in control and they decide to up that number again from 15 to say 25?

[MaDef]

I wonder where the Dems learned how to do that? :haha:
Did the last admin. install a bunch of judges? :hmmm:

Not the same thing at all. And you're trying to obfuscate the issue by implying it is. Last time a President tried to pack the Supreme Court, was Roosevelt in the 30's. And he failed for good reason.

[bstanko6]

If the Dems pack the courts... there will be no more 4 years to a vote...

They can literally throw the constitution out!

They will be in power forever.

That’s not good whether you are a Biden or Trump fan.

[Sonicfire1981]

I think we should go back to how the founding fathers intended....

Land owners only vote.

You must own (have deed) to property. With ID to verify.

You wouldn’t have half the issues we have now.

“No house to show... no communism bro!” - Bstanko6

I could get behind this. Then again, the founders probably never expected corruption in government to get as bad as it is before citizens "fixed the glitch."

Congratulations, you are now officially recognised as anti-democratic.

And by that I mean, there is no discussion beyond this point.

[eddie]

I think we should go back to how the founding fathers intended....

Land owners only vote.

You must own (have deed) to property. With ID to verify.

You wouldn’t have half the issues we have now.

“No house to show... no communism bro!” - Bstanko6


So if someone lives in an apartment they rent or rent a home, they can't vote,LOL:haha::haha:

[Sonicfire1981]

So if someone lives in an apartment they rent or rent a home, they can't vote,LOL:haha::haha:

but his russian landlord can. wonder what happens if someone owns two houses. This will finally give the citigroup the political influence they deserve

[Cybermat47]

I think we should go back to how the founding fathers intended....

Land owners only vote.

You must own (have deed) to property. With ID to verify.

You wouldn’t have half the issues we have now.

“No house to show... no communism bro!” - Bstanko6

I could get behind this. Then again, the founders probably never expected corruption in government to get as bad as it is before citizens "fixed the glitch."

So you want the “deep state” and their corporate henchmen to be able to control elections by deliberately crashing the economy and sending as many non-conspirators as possible into homelessness?

Or do you just think that homeless veterans don’t deserve to vote for the future of the country they served?

Anyway, pretty goddamn massive leap from “investigating voter fraud is part of a fair and free democracy” to “poor people don’t deserve the same rights as everyone else”.

[bstanko6]

To those of you responding to my land owning only voters. That’s exactly what the forefathers intended!

They wanted vested people in the country, not voting for their personal views, but for the longevity of the United States.

So those of you who laughed at this, you’re exactly the person I don’t want voting.

And it’s not anti-democratic, it was absolutely democratic. The forefathers wanted to ensure that only US citizens could vote, and anyone else can go pound sand.

Think about it… If you own property, you work for a living. You’re not a scumbag, you’re not living off the government, you’re not voting for Democrats who want to legalize weed, you’re voting for the longevity of the country, for taxation that will go to bettering everything around you, and not just because you don’t like the orange man.

It’s perfect!

And it would literally eliminate all of these problems. There would be no mail in voting, it’s impossible, you’d have to show a deed.

[Sonicfire1981]

To those of you responding to my land owning only voters. That’s exactly what the forefathers intended!

They wanted vested people in the country, not voting for their personal views, but for the longevity of the United States.

So those of you who laughed at this, you’re exactly the person I don’t want voting.

And it’s not anti-democratic, it was absolutely democratic. The forefathers wanted to ensure that only US citizens could vote, and anyone else can go pound sand.

Think about it… If you own property, you work for a living. You’re not a scumbag, you’re not living off the government, you’re not voting for Democrats who want to legalize weed, you’re voting for the longevity of the country, for taxation that will go to bettering everything around you, and not just because you don’t like the orange man.

It’s perfect!

And it would literally eliminate all of these problems. There would be no mail in voting, it’s impossible, you’d have to show a deed.

This is even dumber than everything your ex-presidents said or did, and he looked into a solar eclipse.
You want the slave part back, too? In case of a family home, the father votes on behalf of his wive, too, right?

[bstanko6]

Yes sonic you’re exactly who I don’t want voting.

[Sonicfire1981]

Think about it… If you own property, you work for a living.
like the orange man. You’re not a scumbag,
like the orange man you’re not living off the government,
like the orange man you’re not voting for Democrats who want to legalize weed, [...]
when there's only 2 parties, that kinda makes voting unneccessary, right? => anti democrat.you’re voting for the longevity of the country, for taxation that will go to bettering everything around you, and not just because you don’t like the orange man.
...like the orange man. he was all for bettering everything. for example healthcare for the poor. but right - they don't count in your world, anyways.
It’s perfect!

Yes. yes. now go back to 1770 and hope to be one of the top 1%. Otherwise you'll be surely hanged for your ideas. which is fine because your life does not matter anyways.

[Sonicfire1981]

Yes sonic you’re exactly who I don’t want voting.

I voted for a girl^^

[u crank]

Think about it… If you own property, you work for a living.

Not everybody who owns property works for a living. Lot's of people who don't own property do work for a living. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

When the Constitution was written women and Black people couldn't vote. Would you go back to that?

[Von Due]

To those of you responding to my land owning only voters. That’s exactly what the forefathers intended!

They wanted vested people in the country, not voting for their personal views, but for the longevity of the United States.

So those of you who laughed at this, you’re exactly the person I don’t want voting.

And it’s not anti-democratic, it was absolutely democratic. The forefathers wanted to ensure that only US citizens could vote, and anyone else can go pound sand.

Think about it… If you own property, you work for a living. You’re not a scumbag, you’re not living off the government, you’re not voting for Democrats who want to legalize weed, you’re voting for the longevity of the country, for taxation that will go to bettering everything around you, and not just because you don’t like the orange man.

It’s perfect!

And it would literally eliminate all of these problems. There would be no mail in voting, it’s impossible, you’d have to show a deed.

There is so much wrong with what you're saying here. Just plain wrong and nonsensical.

Are you in the habit of telling the waitress at the waffle house, the waitress who rents a place, the waitress who just served you coffee and waffles who gets paid in peanuts and promises "you don't work, you're a scumbag"? Really? Do you in all seriousness propose that owning property is what sets a working person apart from lazybones? Tell that to the Americans who each work 2 full time jobs to make ends meet, who rent their place because buying is not within financial reach.

Living off the Govt? Like the big banks that get billions in first aid to cover what they squandered? You know, the suits who own more property than most of your fellow, born and bred, Americans do? You seriously think they are into business for philanthropic reasons? You really think for a moment they have the Country in mind?

All landowners vote republican? Are in favour of taxation for the good of all? In what parallell Universe is that happening?

[August]

This is even dumber than everything your ex-presidents said or did, and he looked into a solar eclipse.
You want the slave part back, too? In case of a family home, the father votes on behalf of his wive, too, right?


The concept of land owner voting has really nothing to with all that other crap.

The idea is that land owners are stake holders, ie they have a vested interest in making their society succeed. It's an ancient system and while I would oppose our country returning to the practice it is hardly "dumb".

[bstanko6]

You guys are interpreting it your own way. I’m not saying that the waitress is a scumbag. I’m not saying to bring back slavery or non-women voting.

You are the ones making all of that stuff up. I’m saying I want voting to go back to the way our forefathers intended it.

I’m not speaking in absolutes, there are good people who do work for a living who rent. That’s fine. They shouldn’t vote. But there are lots of people who are on welfare, choose to be on welfare, and have nothing in there name, They shouldn’t vote.

There are people who choose to live off of others, and not be allowed to vote. What’s wrong with that?

Voting is one of the most powerful things we have in a democracy, which doesn’t matter because the election was rigged. But the fact that you can vote, should be held in the highest regard.

It shouldn’t be given to just anyone. And that’s exactly what our founding fathers told us.

[bstanko6]

Let’s not look at land owning for voting, in the bad sense that no one would be able to vote if they don’t own property.

What I’m saying is we need a system that will ensure the right people are voting and the wrong people do not. That would be one way of doing it. And our forefathers put an emphasis on owning property in the constitution. It’s so important that it is the most protected article in the constitution that you have to get a warrant to search

[mapuc]

I understand one thing and that is

My knowledge about American politics is low, and when it comes to the mind of an American voters my knowledge is zero to none.

Markus

[bstanko6]

Mapuc...

You are not alone.

The idea that this country would rig and election to place the biggest racist idiot into office is mind boggling! Harris even accused Biden of being one, and now she smiles next to him as VP?

Hypocrisy all day!

[AVGWarhawk]

Mapuc...

You are not alone.

The idea that this country would rig and election to place the biggest racist idiot into office is mind boggling! Harris even accused Biden of being one, and now she smiles next to him as VP?

Hypocrisy all day!

Self serving all day long. They care only for themselves.

[u crank]

What I’m saying is we need a system that will ensure the right people are voting and the wrong people do not.

Do you have any idea what that sounds like.

And let's ask a simple but important question. Who gets to decide this?

[Buddahaid]

Do you have any idea what that sounds like.

And let's ask a simple but important question. Who gets to decide this?

Sounds like China.

[Von Due]

Sounds like China.

There are so many candidates, I couldn't tell
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/11/18/432C38AA00000578-4782690-image-a-79_1502472244955.jpg

[u crank]

Sounds like China.

"In the land of China, people hardly got nothing at all."

Forrest Gump

[vienna]

Not everybody who owns property works for a living. Lot's of people who don't own property do work for a living. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

When the Constitution was written women and Black people couldn't vote. Would you go back to that?




Hey, I say we really go back to basics and revert the @nd Amendment to include only muzzle-loading muskets, you know, keep it real and authentic, just like the Founding fathers would... :haha:


...and, say, I've heard that old woman down the lane 'consorts' with farm animals... I wonder if she floats...?...




<O>

[Catfish]

If i have learned anything in the last four years, it is this absolutely impressive humour the right wingers have shown.
:har:

[Sonicfire1981]

It's an ancient system and while I would oppose our country returning to the practice it is hardly "dumb".

Ya, well, y'know... he's describing an oligarchy, where he, of course, is part of the political elite, while
[...]those of you who laughed at this, you’re exactly the person I don’t want voting.

And it’s not anti-democratic, is a pretty dumb thing to say. We could decide only educated people can vote. what then?

[bstanko6]

Guys… You’re yelling at me! I didn’t make the constitution. The forefathers did. And they were pretty smart dudes. They formed this country in fear of being killed.

Now I get it, to people like you that love Biden, a racist idiot, and that’s your right, it sounds extreme. Most of you are probably from another country And don’t get it, and that’s ok. This country is still in its experimental stages. But in this country we have to ensure the right people are voting, because our forefathers demanded it.

And the Capitol Hill being taken over, was written in the articles for the purpose of the people being able to change, alter or abolish the government.

The United States of America is formed on the idea that the people who live in it and are rightful citizens can change it however they please. Even by force if necessary. But in order for those people to decide, they need to be citizens here! That was absolutely fundamental. In one way the forefathers figured, especially since they were so concerned about owning property, was to give that right to property owners only. Not certain groups of people, not certain races, not certain sexual preferences, to land owners.

In order to be a property owner, you have to strive to be better than what you are. That means going out working, working many jobs, striving to be better every single day. Not depending on the government, not depending on mommy and daddy, not just being a waitress but a waitress that is going to be better each and every day. The forefathers were absolutely fixated about property being the centralization of the country. That’s why it’s highly protected in the constitution.

[bstanko6]

And just to clarify one point for my statement above, the idea of working hard was absolutely ideal to the forefathers. They were all about small government. But you can’t have a small government when there’s millions on welfare. Which is why I talk like this. I’m not saying people don’t need welfare, or help, but that was never intended by the forefathers. Big government is a no-no in this country. But we’ve gone so far from their wishes that is actually hurting us.

[vienna]

Ya, well, y'know... he's describing an oligarchy, where he, of course, is part of the political elite, while
is a pretty dumb thing to say. We could decide only educated people can vote. what then?


Shh, quiet!...

...Poor Mitch McConnell worries about that all the time and doesn't need to be reminded of yet another problem for declining GOP voter counts...




<O>

[Rockstar]

Guys… You’re yelling at me! I didn’t make the constitution. The forefathers did. And they were pretty smart dudes. They formed this country in fear of being killed.

Now I get it, to people like you that love Biden, a racist idiot, and that’s your right, it sounds extreme. Most of you are probably from another country And don’t get it, and that’s ok. This country is still in its experimental stages. But in this country we have to ensure the right people are voting, because our forefathers demanded it.

And the Capitol Hill being taken over, was written in the articles for the purpose of the people being able to change, alter or abolish the government.

The United States of America is formed on the idea that the people who live in it and are rightful citizens can change it however they please. Even by force if necessary. But in order for those people to decide, they need to be citizens here! That was absolutely fundamental. In one way the forefathers figured, especially since they were so concerned about owning property, was to give that right to property owners only. Not certain groups of people, not certain races, not certain sexual preferences, to land owners.

In order to be a property owner, you have to strive to be better than what you are. That means going out working, working many jobs, striving to be better every single day. Not depending on the government, not depending on mommy and daddy, not just being a waitress but a waitress that is going to be better each and every day. The forefathers were absolutely fixated about property being the centralization of the country. That’s why it’s highly protected in the constitution.






https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Ft_original%2Ft7jabrka2vzq c4pdiils.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[Sonicfire1981]

In order to be a property owner, you have to strive to be better than what you are. That means going out working, working many jobs, striving to be better every single day. Not depending on the government, not depending on mommy and daddy, not just being a waitress but a waitress that is going to be better each and every day. The forefathers were absolutely fixated about property being the centralization of the country. That’s why it’s highly protected in the constitution.

What you do with "your" constitution is not my business (I believe others here might want to object, as they think "their" constitution should be the same as yours but it feels somewhat differently).

remind me: where did the orange man get his wealth from? again?

[August]

In order to be a property owner, you have to strive to be better than what you are.


That's not accurate. In order to be a property owner you just need enough money to buy the property. That money doesn't have to be earned. It can be inherited, won, stolen or any number of other non-working ways of getting it.

[Buddahaid]

Many Chinese own property in the US. Aren't they vested then?

[Rockstar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Trump is found guilty by the Senate he loses any protections of his former office and susceptible to criminal prosecution. As my mind was wandering and pondering over the possibilities. I wondered if he would pull a Snowden and flee to Russia. :haha:

[3catcircus]

Many Chinese own property in the US. Aren't they vested then?

Not unless they are US citizens.

[Buddahaid]

I realize that but that wasn't postulated as a requirement so I played devil's advocate.

[bstanko6]

Trump got a nomination for Nobel peace prize for his peace in the Middle East!

CornPops accomplishment?

Send 11,000 workers to unemployment!

LOL!!!

Here are some more of Biden’s lies while you soak in the fact Trump is the greatest president ever!

https://youtu.be/mCJMF7mflGE

[vienna]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Trump is found guilty by the Senate he loses any protections of his former office and susceptible to criminal prosecution. As my mind was wandering and pondering over the possibilities. I wondered if he would pull a Snowden and flee to Russia. :haha:


Trump has already lost protection against criminal prosecution, since such protections afforded a President cease when the person leaves office; in Trump's case, unless he is holding some sort of "pocket pardon" he issued to himself before leaving office; a "pocket pardon" is one issued by a sitting President that is hidden from public knowledge and, in theory, only comes into effect if the person being pardoned is charged with an actual crime that would be covered by the "pocket pardon"; in theory, the DOJ, via the AG's AUSAs could charge Trump, or have him indicted by a Federal Grand Jury, and Trump could counter by producing his self-granted "pocket pardon"; from, the public listing of Trump's issued pardons, his name does not appear on those lists, but that does not mean that there are no pardons lurking in the shadows...

As of now, absent any "pocket pardons" or the extremely, extremely remote possibility of a pardon from Biden, Trump is fully vulnerable to any number of Federal charges and prosecutions ranging from obstruction of justice to political corruption to, in the light of the Riot at the Capitol, fomenting insurrection against the government of the US, and any number of crimes in between, and that would be in addition to various Federal tax, business financial violations or campaign finance violations, etc., etc....

Keep in mind a conviction in his impeachment trial in the Senate would not result in Trump's being able to avoid criminal prosecution for any charges related to his impeachment by claiming a 'double jeopardy' exception to criminal prosecution; the impeachment trial is not a criminal trial; the Senate is prohibited, by law, from imposing prison time, fines, or most other punitive remedies afforded to the courts in normal criminal trials; the Senate can strip Trump of his eligibility to run for or hold office again for life and that seems to be the point of the Senate trial; since the impeachment trial is in essence an administrative procedure, no 'double jeopardy would attach if the Senate convicts, but, in theory, any and all evidence/testimony presented at the impeachment trial could be used and cite at any subsequent criminal trial(s) Trump could face...

For those who would question why an impeachment trial is not considered a criminal process, remember that the process is there to only remove officials from Federal office who have either abused their office(s) or who have exhibited conduct that rises to the level of impairing or besmirching the office(s) they hold, e.g., actual criminal conduct, corruption, etc.; think of it this way: if a person is found to have, say, embezzled funds from his company and the BoD or HR fires that person and then puts out public notice of the firing, making it near impossible for the ex-employee to find similar employment elsewhere, the ex-employee is still liable to criminal prosecution for embezzlement, grand theft, tax violations, etc.; the firing is administrative and outside of the criminal justice system as much as an impeachment trial is an internal governmental administrative action and not a real criminal prosecution, which is long way of saying, in terms of avoiding criminal charge and possible jail time/fines, Trump's ass is grass...


...as far as fleeing to Russia, I don't think Vlad looks kindly on employees who totally screw up their jobs; probably the best for Trump he not go to the Kremlin: I hear that Vlad's 'separation package' for ex-employees is, well, less than optimal... :haha:





<O>

[Buddahaid]

https://theweek.com/articles/783976/brief-history-trumps-smalltime-swindles

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-business-plan-left-a-trail-of-unpaid-bills-1465504454

Need more?

[vienna]

Trump got a nomination for Nobel peace prize for his peace in the Middle East!

...





Considering just about anybody can be nominated for a Nobel (or, as Trump says it "Noble") Peace Prize, its not really any big accomplishment; even Hitler was nominated once, in 1939, by an Swedish anti-fascist who was surprised when the Nobel committee actually took his nomination seriously and he later withdrew the nomination; Mussolini was also nominated once, and Stalin actually was nominated twice; hell, Yasser Arafat actually won the Peace Prize and I don't think many would consider Arafat's long history of terrorism qualifies him as an agent of peace; the Peace Prize nominee list is rife with wildly questionable individuals and Trump is just the latest in the long WTF parade...

A nomination is not all that impressive anymore; an actual win is the 'gold standard' and I can assure you porcine aviation will occur before the Nobel committee awards that lying, fat-assed, criminal a Peace Prize...




<O>

[Sonicfire1981]

A nomination is not all that impressive anymore; an actual win is the 'gold standard' and I can assure you porcine aviation will occur before the Nobel committee awards that lying, fat-assed, criminal a Peace Prize...

<O>
The nomination was by a norwegian ultra-nationalist, also too late to be considered.
But there are presidents that actually won a noble piece (:D) price, right?

[bstanko6]

But Vienna...

Trump has a nomination. And you and Biden don’t!

[Cybermat47]

But Vienna...

Trump has a nomination. And you and Biden don’t!

And Josef Stalin had two nominations.

I feel like a peace prize doesn’t stand for much when one of history’s most infamous killers gets nominated for it twice.

[ET2SN]

But Vienna...

Trump has a nomination. And you and Biden don’t!

I nominated Vienna two years ago but the committee never got back to me. So, :Kaleun_Goofy:

[vienna]

You'd think with all the nominations I've gotten ove rthe years, I might have actually won once...




<O>

[bstanko6]

I even got a nomination and won an award on my subsim tag! Best of 2019! Only winners boys!

[vienna]

About the Nobel Peace Prize and the nomination process:


You, too, can become a Nobel Peace Prize nominee --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/01/you-too-can-become-nobel-peace-prize-nominee/

It should be noted Trump has been nominated multiple times, and at least two of them were done by a phony who forged the nominations:

Trump’s nomination for Nobel prize is apparently a fake, official tells NYT --

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/01/politics/trump-nominee-nobel-peace-prize/index.html

...and, it appears Trump's latest nomination was submitted too late for actual consideration, so it was, in fact, not an actual legitimate nomination...


Regarding Obama's award of the Peace Prize, Obama, himself, was very clear about how he felt about the honor:



“Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations,” Obama said on Oct. 9, 2009. “To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who’ve been honored by this prize — men and women who’ve inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.”


Wow, what a prideful, vain, braggart Obama was, not at all like the humble, modest, self-effacing Trump...




<O>

[Cybermat47]

I even got a nomination and won an award on my subsim tag! Best of 2019! Only winners boys!

I got the same award an earlier year, and I fail to see what point you’re making.

[bstanko6]

My point is...

Great people are awarded. Trump is a god send, in his policies, his reconstruction of the American dream, and no holds barred attitude to China and criminals.

He deserves reverence, respect, and the Nobel!

[Von Due]

My point is...

Great people are awarded. Trump is a god send, in his policies, his reconstruction of the American dream, and no holds barred attitude to China and criminals.

He deserves reverence, respect, and the Nobel!

His no holds barred attitude
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-video-statement-capitol-rioters-we-love-you-very-special-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

[MaDef]

LMAO, Trump is a private citizen now, yet he's still living rent free in your heads.

[Cybermat47]

I even got a nomination and won an award on my subsim tag! Best of 2019! Only winners boys!

My point is...

Great people are awarded. Trump is a god send, in his policies, his reconstruction of the American dream, and no holds barred attitude to China and criminals.

He deserves reverence, respect, and the Nobel!

You’re so humble.

Also, does that mean you consider Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama to be a great person? What about Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient Biden, do you consider him great as well? If not, then doesn’t that clash with your statement that great people are awarded?

As for a revering politicians... no. Politicians are to be voted for when they have good ideas, unceremoniously dumped when they have bad ideas. I don’t understand why anyone would worship them.

[3catcircus]

I realize that but that wasn't postulated as a requirement so I played devil's advocate.


It didn't need to be postulated. *That* is part and parcel of why so many people are sick and tired of real or perceived election fraud and illegal immigration. You shouldn't *have* to state that one must be a citizen to vote because it's equivalent to stating "water is H2O."

[Cybermat47]

You shouldn't *have* to state that one must be a citizen to vote because it's equivalent to stating "water is H2O."

Well, not all water is H2O. Heavy water is D2O.

Also, this is no longer the US politics thread, it is now the water thread.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, not all water is H2O. Heavy water is D2O.

Also, this is no longer the US politics thread, it is now the water thread.

It is still a US politics thread. Just a watered down version.

[3catcircus]

Well, not all water is H2O. Heavy water is D2O.

Also, this is no longer the US politics thread, it is now the water thread.

No one postulated heavy water...

[u crank]

Also, does that mean you consider Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama to be a great person?

No.:O:

Actually Nobel Peace Prizes should be given out conditionally. If you don't live up to it then it gets revoked. Obama was awarded the prize on December 10, 2009. He had not yet been sworn in as President. Before that he was a Jr. Senator.

As President, Obama did not live up to the award. Without Congressional authorization, military action was taken in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen. A total of 563 air strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms. Hundreds of innocent civilians were killed in these strikes. An American citizen was also killed.

The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. Smart people who are nominated would be wise to decline the prize.

[AVGWarhawk]

No.:O:

Actually Nobel Peace Prizes should be given out conditionally. If you don't live up to it then it gets revoked. Obama was awarded the prize on December 10, 2009. He had not yet been sworn in as President. Before that he was a Jr. Senator.

As President, Obama did not live up to the award. Without Congressional authorization, military action was taken in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen. A total of 563 air strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms. Hundreds of innocent civilians were killed in these strikes. An American citizen was also killed.

The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. Smart people who are nominated would be wise to decline the prize.

Man speaks truth.

[AVGWarhawk]

Gotta love it.

"If you see anybody from the Cuomo Administration in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they're not welcome anymore, anywhere,"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/twitter-troll-sparks-liberal-outrage-replacing-words-in-maxine-threat

“This is appalling and dangerous,” Democratic New York State Assemblyman Carl Heastie tweeted. “Encouraging violence must never be tolerated. Shame on whoever is behind this kind of garbage.”

Took it hook, line and sinker.....

[bstanko6]

C'mon man!

[Catfish]

https://i.imgur.com/fUczcuam.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

https://i.imgur.com/fUczcuam.jpg

They were always meanies. In fact, 18 minutes after Trump was sworn in the heat was turned up.

[Catfish]

^ good that this never happens with democrat presidents. For looking at it from outside it has always been the same.
It was not about republicans or democrats, it was about a cult about a person who is completely off his trolley. Which is why the republican party is now almost dead. You can blame democrats, but you also have to blame lacking reason and first of all this blithering idiot Trump himself.

[bstanko6]

Liberals aren’t being meanies… They’re literally destroying the country right now as we speak.

[bstanko6]

And besides… After Trump won, weren’t you guys supposed to move to Canada or something?

[bstanko6]

Now the Democrats are pushing to pack the Supreme Court. Something Kamala Harris would never admit to Pence.

They are literally destroying the checks and balances in this country. That’s Tyranny. That’s not being a meanie, that’s being a dictatorship.

[Jeff-Groves]

And besides… After Trump won, weren’t you guys supposed to move to Canada or something?
Like Canada wanted people that can't say 'Eh' and really mean it.

[bstanko6]

Jeff...

LOL I never thought about that!

[mapuc]

The reply to my latest comment showed me that there are absolutely no different in the mind of a voter whether they come from Denmark, Sweden, Germany or in this case USA.

Markus

[bstanko6]

Well it’s clear now, every voter in this country knows that their vote don’t count. Elections are rigged.

And soon enough it’ll be a dictatorship.

[Jeff-Groves]

The reply to my latest comment showed me that there are absolutely no different in the mind of a voter whether they come from Denmark, Sweden, Germany or in this case USA.

Markus
At what point did Denmark, Sweden, or Germany vote?
Are you claiming Voter fraud?
:haha:

[Catfish]

Thank god they are a bit different :doh:

[Jeff-Groves]

And soon enough it’ll be a dictatorship.
The Off World Lords don't want us to know that yet.
:har:

[AVGWarhawk]

Well it’s clear now, every voter in this country knows that their vote don’t count. Elections are rigged.

And soon enough it’ll be a dictatorship.

The Dem claimed the same thing in 2016 when Trump was elected. :hmmm:

[Buddahaid]

Exactly. I didn't happen but got the closest yet this century.

[mapuc]

At what point did Denmark, Sweden, or Germany vote?
Are you claiming Voter fraud?
:haha:

No, here it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud.

It is the way how they complain. A voter which politician or party didn't got elected or lost many seats in the Parliament. Is complaining and accuse the elected government and/or other politician, parties and even voters.

Markus

[bstanko6]

Warhawk...

But hindsight is 20/20.

Trump didn't try to pack courts, or disable social media when it counts most, or cut jobs, or force liberal bias into schools, or rig elections, or stack his deck in Any kind of way. Obviously. He isn't president now.

But the libtard demoncrats are hard at a work friend! They literally did all the above.

[bstanko6]

Oh can I add AOC accusing Cruz of attempted murder!

The dems are an insane radical joke!

[eddie]

Warhawk...

But hindsight is 20/20.

Trump didn't try to pack courts, or disable social media when it counts most, or cut jobs, or force liberal bias into schools, or rig elections, or stack his deck in Any kind of way. Obviously. He isn't president now.

But the libtard demoncrats are hard at a work friend! They literally did all the above.

So saith the King of the Trumptards,lol:haha:

[Skybird]

Canada is about to designate Proud Boys and several other such groups as terrorist groups. This comes with a whole sack of legal and law-enforcement options by which Canadin authorities can pursue and contain these groups' finances, and activities. The Canadian prime minisier is followign demands for this move made by the Canadian parliament last month, so the Canadians seem to have a wide political basis in support of this step.

PB originally were founded by a Canadian residing in the US. The accusation is that they are neo-fascist, racist, and that Canadian intel found them to be engaged not just in words, but active planning of violence, which constantly escalated. The attack on the Capitol was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

[Skybird]

The planned withdrawel of US troops from Germany has been fully stopped by the Pentagon, with a full review and re-evaluation ordered for every single step of the plan.



Earlier, a whole volley of early resignations had been ordered for legions of orange men who in the last days of Biden's predecessor had been pushed into Pentagon and defence posts in order to block and slow down any policy making by Biden, and to sabotage his policies. The order affects hundreds of loyalists to the old regime who now get pushed out by force. A - much needed - cleaning operation.

[Rockstar]

Just a few short months ago Generals were publicly criticizing their commander in chief because of planned troop withdraws. The new president seems more malleable to the desires of the military industrial complex. I'm sure the Generals have nothing but high praise for Biden.

Russophobia is extremely profitable to the armaments, security and spying industries and Russophobia reinforces intellectually challenged voters in their Tory loyalty... - Former British ambassador Craig Murray

[Buddahaid]

Just a few short months ago Generals were publicly criticizing their commander in chief because of planned troop withdraws. The new president seems more malleable to the desires of the military industrial complex. I'm sure the Generals have nothing but high praise for Biden.

Russophobia is extremely profitable to the armaments, security and spying industries and Russophobia reinforces intellectually challenged voters in their Tory loyalty... - Former British ambassador Craig Murray

Given the Chinese muscle flexing over the last few years isn't it desirable?

[Rockstar]

Given the Chinese muscle flexing over the last few years isn't it desirable?


What more desirable Russiaphobia or China? IMO China is the concern but we have troops damn near everywhere in the world on land in the air over and under the oceans Africa, Asia, Middle East, U.K. South China Sea, Japan, Kazahkstan, several other 'stans, India, Pakistan, South AMerica, Central America and several other undisclosed locations. All of that costs one helluva a lot of freaking money to keep things going our way.


Its been over 75 years now since the end of world war II. I think Germany is good to go. The cold War is over and NATO doesn't have much of its original purpose left. Germany is Russia's best economic partner. Time to trim the fat over there. Sure Russia has interests that may conflict with ours but I think it has more to do with a desire to be secure within their own borders. Than wanting to rule the world or over running Europe with tank divisions.

[Buddahaid]

What more desirable Russiaphobia or China? IMO China is the concern but we have troops damn near everywhere in the world on land in the air over and under the oceans Africa, Asia, Middle East, U.K. South China Sea, Japan, Kazahkstan, several other 'stans, India, Pakistan, South AMerica, Central America and several other undisclosed locations. All of that costs one helluva a lot of freaking money to keep things going our way.


Its been over 75 years now since the end of world war II. I think Germany is good to go. The cold War is over and NATO doesn't have much of its original purpose left. Germany is Russia's best economic partner. Time to trim the fat over there. Sure Russia has interests that may conflict with ours but I think it has more to do with a desire to be secure within their own borders. Than wanting to rule the world or over running Europe with tank divisions.

Agreed. As much as I'd love to cut and trim the world is still full of humans and that means trouble. We haven't learned anything about living together despite millennia of doing so.

Isolationism is desirable to focus on domestic problems but seems to always end up in worse problems. At least that's how I perceive it. Better to stay involved and leverage some control instead of playing catch up. Things move too fast for that now.

[bstanko6]

We like China! Ask big tech! They rigged an election for China!

[bstanko6]

So saith the King of the Trumptards,lol:haha:

Whoa Eddie.... are we making fun of forum members? Tsk tsk! We wouldn’t want you to be kicked out now so we?

[Rockstar]

Agreed. As much as I'd love to cut and trim the world is still full of humans and that means trouble. We haven't learned anything about living together despite millennia of doing so.

Isolationism is desirable to focus on domestic problems but seems to always end up in worse problems. At least that's how I perceive it. Better to stay involved and leverage some control instead of playing catch up. Things move too fast for that now.


We have troops stationed in over 170 countries around the world. I can assure you withdrawing troops from Germany has absolutely nothing to do with isolationism . Its about remaining a global player. Its cutting base and personnel costs in the European theater as we open bases elsewhere without placing an even larger burden on taxpayers and our economy.

[August]

Agreed. As much as I'd love to cut and trim the world is still full of humans and that means trouble. We haven't learned anything about living together despite millennia of doing so.

Isolationism is desirable to focus on domestic problems but seems to always end up in worse problems. At least that's how I perceive it. Better to stay involved and leverage some control instead of playing catch up. Things move too fast for that now.


Is there not a path between isolationism and being on a perpetual war footing? I think we can defend our country without keeping troops stationed in half the nations on the planet.

[Buddahaid]

I'm not arguing against German troop withdrawals. We must be having a misunderstanding and I'll accept that's on me.

[Buddahaid]

Is there not a path between isolationism and being on a perpetual war footing? I think we can defend our country without keeping troops stationed in half the nations on the planet.

I would hope there is but what would you suggest to replace it and be as effective? Yes I understand this puts servicemen at risk and I'm engaging in armchair diplomacy but what works better.

[Buddahaid]

Is there not a path between isolationism and being on a perpetual war footing? I think we can defend our country without keeping troops stationed in half the nations on the planet.

Reading this again I see that I'm thinking past defending the country and looking out for it's future interests and that means staying engaged.

[Cybermat47]

Whoa Eddie.... are we making fun of forum members? Tsk tsk! We wouldn’t want you to be kicked out now so we?

Says the guy who accused forum members of being KKK members for no reason.:.

[Catfish]

Just a few short months ago Generals were publicly criticizing their commander in chief because of planned troop withdraws. The new president seems more malleable to the desires of the military industrial complex. I'm sure the Generals have nothing but high praise for Biden.
Understandable, maybe?



https://i.imgur.com/8YLhAkbl.png



Russophobia is extremely profitable to the armaments, security and spying industries and Russophobia reinforces intellectually challenged voters in their Tory loyalty... - Former British ambassador Craig Murray
:rotfl2: :03: Amen.

[Catfish]

We like China! Ask big tech! They rigged an election for China!
Yeah right. Trump on the way ..


https://i.imgur.com/IXC0joPl.jpg

[Skybird]

Just a few short months ago Generals were publicly criticizing their commander in chief because of planned troop withdraws. The new president seems more malleable to the desires of the military industrial complex. I'm sure the Generals have nothing but high praise for Biden.

Russophobia is extremely profitable to the armaments, security and spying industries and Russophobia reinforces intellectually challenged voters in their Tory loyalty... - Former British ambassador Craig Murray
US troops are not in Germany to protect it anymore. against whom, currently?

Or is it still that NATO is there to keep the Gemans in (=contained) and the Russians out? :D

The US troops are there due to the established infrastrucure that makes Germany as a logistics centrepoint extremely profitable for US global operations. Germany is the needle's eye through which most of logistics, health care, intel for US operations in africa and the ME go through, drone control also heavily relies on Germany-based control centres and tech nodes. You could shift these to other NATO countries, yes, but not without investing many years of time and many many billions of dollars. In this meaning, Germany is full of advantages for the US.

I think its true to say that the US has as much if not more interest to stay in Germany than Germany wants the US to stay here. The germna interest is moire due to the economic impact of the troops in German communities, because of course they spend money in local business and shops. Poltically, nationally, this is not thta much relevant, but for the shop owners on location it often is the main pillar of their eocniomic existence. thats why locally people in germany and locla pltiians make bog ralleis for the US troops to stay. But it is local interest-related, not so much national interest-related.

Personally I would prefer the US to get out, but for a completely different reason. The German narrative still is that the US is a military partner "protecting" us, we lean on it and thus do less ourselves, militarily. A leave of the US would force German defence politics and strategy to either admit defeat and self-dissolve the Bundeswehr - or to realise that one has to learn to strengthen one's own muscles again, because the protective US umbrella is no longer there. German defence politics will not improve and become more realistic without this need, this pressure, and thats why I would prefer the US to leave. It would force Germany to make things better.

[Catfish]

The US occupation costed Germany appx a billion Euros in the last ten years :D

[Cybermat47]

The US occupation costed Germany appx a billion Euros in the last ten years :D

Maybe they just want to be sure that you’ve really learnt your lesson this time :O:

[Bilge_Rat]

Canada is about to designate Proud Boys and several other such groups as terrorist groups. This comes with a whole sack of legal and law-enforcement options by which Canadin authorities can pursue and contain these groups' finances, and activities. The Canadian prime minisier is followign demands for this move made by the Canadian parliament last month, so the Canadians seem to have a wide political basis in support of this step.

PB originally were founded by a Canadian residing in the US. The accusation is that they are neo-fascist, racist, and that Canadian intel found them to be engaged not just in words, but active planning of violence, which constantly escalated. The attack on the Capitol was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

yes, but it is more of a politically correct knee jerk reaction. Normally, designating a group as a "terrorist organisation" is a lengthy process and it is based on hard evidence on how much of a threat the group actually is.

Designating an organisation as a "Terrorist Group" is also a serious step since any member is now guilty of a criminal act in Canada just by being a member of said group. That goes against the concept of English criminal law where a person should only be found guilty of criminal acts which are proven against him.

For example, the "Hells Angels" motorcycle club is not listed as a terrorist organisation, even though its members have killed a lot more people than the "Proud Boys".

Many Canadian criminal lawyers have reservations about this law and terrorist designations and there are legitmate question about whether it is even constitutional in Canada. Watering it down by designating groups for political reasons certainly does not help.

In Canada, this is viewed as just a crass political move. Trudeau is in a minority government and all signs point to a spring election so the Liberals are doing all the politically correct moves to increase the chance of winning back a majority.

[Catfish]

yes, but it is more of a politically correct knee jerk reaction. Normally, designating a group as a "terrorist organisation" is a lengthy process and it is based on hard evidence on how much of a threat the group actually is. [...]
I agree, they are not a threat. Here's the hard evidence :O: :



https://i.imgur.com/K0NQjVvl.jpg

[Bilge_Rat]

yes...ok

anyway, another reason why civil liberties advocates in Canada are leery of this move is that by the same standards, Canada could list BLM and several Canadian indigenous land defenders as terrorist groups.

The "Proud Boys" do not really fit in the definition of terrorist groups, technically, Parliament would have had to amend the law to expressly catch them, but that could catch many other groups. The governement is just modifying its "interpretation" of the law, but by expanding the definition, those groups are now potentially included and could be, at a minimum, subject to surveillance by law enforcement:

TORONTO -- Anti-hate and civil rights groups are cautiously relieved the terrorist designation wasn’t expanded for the Proud Boys, which they say could have given law enforcement more leeway to surveil Black Lives Matter, Indigenous land defenders or others.

Critics have been worried about the definition of terrorism potentially being expanded since the federal government first publicly indicated it’d be considering adding the extremist group to its list of terrorist entities. This action followed the Proud Boys’ involvement in riots in the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

The Canadian Anti-Hate Network, which monitors and researches hate groups, had been publically and privately lobbying the feds to ensure the neo-fascist Proud Boys fit the current criteria and officials “didn’t lower the bar” on the definition.

“We’ve concerned about who might be caught up in that net, or down the road that [expanded legislation] could be exploited to include BIPOC or anti-racist groups that the state doesn’t like,” the group’s executive director Evan Balgord told CTVNews.ca in a phone interview Wednesday.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-didn-t-expand-the-terrorist-definition-here-s-why-that-matters-1.5294785

The Ottawa-based International Civil Liberties Monitoring Group says it is imperative that the Liberal government take concrete steps to counter hate and violence, but it stresses the terror list is a "deeply problematic" provision that undermines basic principles of justice.

In a lengthy statement, the national coalition of dozens of civil society organizations noted the federal listing process takes place in secret, based on advice from security agencies.

"Groups who are added are not informed in advance, nor given the chance to address the accusations levelled against them," the coalition said. "Only once a group is added does the listing become public, and they are in a position to challenge their listing."

Even then, a group is not granted access to all the information used against it, which can be withheld based on several exceptions -- including national security grounds -- making it "incredibly difficult" to mount a defence, the civil liberties coalition added.

Ottawa lawyer Yavar Hameed went to court on behalf of the Canadian branch of the International Relief Fund for the Afflicted and Needy, known as IRFAN-Canada, after it was added to the list in 2014.

The government said that between 2005 and 2009 the organization transferred about $14.6 million worth of resources to various organizations with links to Hamas.

While the attorney general can authorize specific transactions by a listed group, it refused to allow IRFAN-Canada to raise funds to pay legal fees, Hameed said.

"Ultimately, this crippled the ability of the charity to maintain its delisting application and to challenge the constitutionality of the listing provisions themselves."

It also meant that all donations ceased, as contributing to the charity would make donors liable to criminal prosecution, Hameed said.

"In turn, the listing caused a chilling effect within Muslim communities throughout Canada as the threat of legal prosecution forced donors to completely disassociate themselves from any link with the charity."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/terror-list-a-problematic-way-to-fight-white-supremacists-civil-society-groups-say-1.5288941

[Rockstar]

Understandable, maybe?
.




For the most part I was fine with Trump seeing past the political words, theatrics and showmanship. I didnt vote for him but even I thought he got railroaded. Buy hey that's politics, and it made the media tons of money ;). No doubt he was his own worst enemy and his undoing though. But what ticked my off to no end was, without any solid proof of fraud he brought discredit and doubt to the election system after he had been voted out. How he thought that was the right thing to do is beyond me. And the more I think about it, the more I think the Senate ought give him the boot.

Now for the military. I'm good with any General stepping up and giving an honest opinion to the president or to anyone. But I see no difference between a General publicly criticizing the commander in chief in front of the troops and when a president publicly criticizes the election system after he has been voted out. Its not good for the country, and breaks down good order and discipline. Last thing I want to see is the armed forces of this country divided into political factions, what he did was stupid and irresponsible.

Neither of their behavior is anything to be proud of and IMO both should be given the boot

[Skybird]

A military commander lacking military competence and running the military like a profit-oriented business company, is a problem. There is strategic value and necessity than cannot be expressed in money saved. That is not just a problem with Biden'S predecessorl but the Germna defenc eminsitres Guttenmberg and Leyen also sufferedf form this kind of incompetence and wishful thinkling - they tried to run the military like a business company. Did work only very, very, very bad, and made most of the bad things even worse.

In chess, gambits are an example. You seem to get a material gain - but you pay with substantial loss in options, time, positional quality. Gambits are "poisoned". Thats what makes them a gambit and not a present.

[AVGWarhawk]

The US occupation costed Germany appx a billion Euros in the last ten years :D

The US paid Germany over 4 billion to have a military base in Germany. But Germany does suck up infrastructure costs and other amenities. The US cash does not go directly to Germany from my understanding.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dcb726b70d140008df17c77e1198cb46

[Catfish]

^ @Skybird i agree regarding Trump (shock!) :o
But this says nothing about T's generals. He sure had some field days firing even close supporters when they dared to point out that the Potus might be wrong..
On the other hand it is not a general's job to criticize the president openly, publicly, and after he has been fired. Maybe write memoirs, but some things are "bad style". Not that Trump himself did not lower the mark drastically.

A lot of military men left voluntarily though, since they did not want responsibility following Trump's views. And this is indeed a bad sign, even without outspoken critic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/marine-corps-generals-leaving-trump-administration-kelly-mattis-2020-2?r=DE&IR=T





edit: just saw Warhawks post: Thanks :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

A military commander lacking military competence and running the military like a profit-oriented business company, is a problem. There is strategic value and necessity than cannot be expressed in money saved. That is not just a problem with Biden'S predecessorl but the Germna defenc eminsitres Guttenmberg and Leyen also sufferedf form this kind of incompetence and wishful thinkling - they tried to run the military like a business company. Did work only very, very, very bad, and made most of the bad things even worse.

In chess, gambits are an example. You seem to get a material gain - but you pay with substantial loss in options, time, positional quality. Gambits are "poisoned". Thats what makes them a gambit and not a present.


From what I've read the purpose of domestic base closures and withdrawing troops from other locations like Germany. Is to support ongoing operations in other places in the world without having throw even more money at the military industrial complex. It places an incredible burden on our domestic economy and infrastructure. Believe it or not our expansion into over 170 foreign countries around the world costs a crap-ton of cash to operate and maintain. Try it sometime.

Oh, and I can guarantee you we are not leaving Europe. One of our goals is to upset and check growing German influence and business ties with Russia. Navalny <cough cough>. But for now its a good idea to reduce costs, especially these days I think it's more important than maintaining a large presence in a nation and region that has lived in peace for well over 75 years.

Anyway its also my opinion by placing the plan to reduce troop deployment on hold for review by the Biden administration. Is political speak for, its still going to happen but it will now be known as the 'Biden Plan'.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh I can guarantee you we are not leaving Europe.

Specifically because the Russians are there.

[Skybird]

^ @Skybird i agree regarding Trump (shock!) :o
But this says nothing about T's generals. He sure had some field days firing even close supporters when they dared to point out that the Potus might be wrong..
On the other hand it is not a general's job to criticize the president openly, publicly, and after he has been fired. Maybe write memoirs, but some things are "bad style". Not that Trump himself did not lower the mark drastically.

A lot of military men left voluntarily though, since they did not want responsibility following Trump's views. And this is indeed a bad sign, even without outspoken critic.


I do not know whether we really speak about the same events, however: when the first high ranking militaries stood up and spoke out against the plans by Biden's predecessor, they did so not early and not in a hurry. They were aware of the unusal step they took. To me this illustrates how serious and grave the concerns were that made them judging the issue worth to take this unusual step.

Again, the bases and established, proven, recently modernised infrastructure the American presence has established in Germany is of very high logistical and operational value for the US, for its global operations and namely the operation in Africa, ME. Its not any longer so much about the classical NATO versus Russia scenario, its about the global US network of military support lines and logistics and intel communication and remote control lines. The leg the US has in Germany, is a strogn and heavy one. Cutting it off really changes the global balance and setup - for the US, and to its disadvantage. I indeed think the US interest is Germany is outweighing the German interest of havign the US here. It is not indispensable, but could be relocated only at enormous costs in time and money.

Thats not to say the Germans are practically desinterested, no. But after Biden's predecessor, a sense of sobering has taken over, and the US is no longer blindly trusted and relied on in the future. What happend once in the US, can - and will, I say! - happen again. Easily. That the Germans are so eager to replace the Tornados with nuclear carrying capacity for the US nukes in Germany with any aircraft, not necessarily a future European model, but even buying a fighter in the US, is not so much because Germany wants to partly "own" US nukes, but keeping the nukes in germany is a way to keep the Americans in Germany. So, even if relations have cooled down and the interests have been redefined: one cannot say the Germans have lost all interest alltogether and want the US out. By far not. One has just become more realistic a bit regardin future expectations.

Unfortunately not yet realistic enough to draw all consequences that are needed and beefing up defence and Bundeswehr capapilities. The BW today is just a shadow of past times only. And in parts it is, honestly said, a "Lachnummer" (a joke). This military force can deter no determined party from anything.

[Skybird]

From what I've read the purpose of domestic base closures and withdrawing troops from other locations like Germany. Is to support ongoing operations in other places in the world without having throw even more money at the military industrial complex. It places an incredible burden on our domestic economy and infrastructure. Believe it or not our expansion into over 170 foreign countries around the world costs a crap-ton of cash to operate and maintain. Try it sometime.

Oh, and I can guarantee you we are not leaving Europe. One of our goals is to upset and check growing German influence and business ties with Russia. Navalny <cough cough>. But for now its a good idea to reduce costs, especially these days I think it's more important than maintaining a large presence in a nation and region that has lived in peace for well over 75 years.

Anyway its also my opinion by placing the plan to reduce troop deployment on hold for review by the Biden administration. Is political speak for, its still going to happen but it will now be known as the 'Biden Plan'.
I agree that you are overstretched and that the financial costs must be immense. But not every regiuonbal presenc eof yours is as relevant as any other. You have many bases scattered aorudn that are pratcially indefendable. Your most important and globally supporting bases to me are Okinawa and Germany. These two probabyl before any other. It makes no sense to me that if you want to save costs you close your two most relevant and important stations, while leaving a hundred others far less relevant bases open. It makes no sense. If one needs to control costs, one keeps the valuable and importent, relevant assets, and dumps the irrelevant, unimportant ones. You keep what keeps your strong, and get rid of what weakens you.

Maybe we disagree on the relevance of Korean bases, Okinawa, Germany, compared to others. Okay. But this is how I see it and apparently major parts fo your generals see it like as well. I have great sympathy for Eisenhowers warning of the industrial-military complex. But not here. I think that warning is far more relevant for the internal national US system of distributing/scattering defence production and keeping impractical defence projects alive in US federal states for anything but military reasons, but for reasons of political career planning, jobs, and so forth. Streamlining things in that swamp to focus on real necessities and cutting off what militarily is not needed, not paying attention to politicians re-election interests and all that - THAT is where you can save the real big money, I think.

[AVGWarhawk]

Korean bases, Okinawa, Germany, compared to others.

These bases as well as others are simply to protect and watch the US interests in those regions.

[bstanko6]

Uncle Cornpop and Herman Munster fixing the planet! LOLOL!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdrrWgKTNs

[3catcircus]

Canada is about to designate Proud Boys and several other such groups as terrorist groups. This comes with a whole sack of legal and law-enforcement options by which Canadin authorities can pursue and contain these groups' finances, and activities. The Canadian prime minisier is followign demands for this move made by the Canadian parliament last month, so the Canadians seem to have a wide political basis in support of this step.

PB originally were founded by a Canadian residing in the US. The accusation is that they are neo-fascist, racist, and that Canadian intel found them to be engaged not just in words, but active planning of violence, which constantly escalated. The attack on the Capitol was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

I am betting that they don't even know the origin of the proud boys - made up as a "guy club" to get a jewish radio intern to score with chicks and drink beer. The name is a goof of a broadway show song from the stage production of Disney's Alladin called Proud of Your Boy. Mysogenistic? Possibly. Chauvinist - yep. But hardly what you'd call a terrorist group.

After all, they're just an idea, like antifa.

[3catcircus]

A military commander lacking military competence and running the military like a profit-oriented business company, is a problem. There is strategic value and necessity than cannot be expressed in money saved. That is not just a problem with Biden'S predecessorl but the Germna defenc eminsitres Guttenmberg and Leyen also sufferedf form this kind of incompetence and wishful thinkling - they tried to run the military like a business company. Did work only very, very, very bad, and made most of the bad things even worse.

In chess, gambits are an example. You seem to get a material gain - but you pay with substantial loss in options, time, positional quality. Gambits are "poisoned". Thats what makes them a gambit and not a present.

The majority of flag officers in the US are ticket-punching yes-men. They're just as worthless in providing an honest opinion to any president as they are at taking care of their troops.

[3catcircus]

For the most part I was fine with Trump seeing past the political words, theatrics and showmanship. I didnt vote for him but even I thought he got railroaded. Buy hey that's politics, and it made the media tons of money ;). No doubt he was his own worst enemy and his undoing though. But what ticked my off to no end was, without any solid proof of fraud he brought discredit and doubt to the election system after he had been voted out. How he thought that was the right thing to do is beyond me. And the more I think about it, the more I think the Senate ought give him the boot.

Now for the military. I'm good with any General stepping up and giving an honest opinion to the president or to anyone. But I see no difference between a General publicly criticizing the commander in chief in front of the troops and when a president publicly criticizes the election system after he has been voted out. Its not good for the country, and breaks down good order and discipline. Last thing I want to see is the armed forces of this country divided into political factions, what he did was stupid and irresponsible.

Neither of their behavior is anything to be proud of and IMO both should be given the boot

Criticizing a process is different than criticizing a person.

I have no doubt that the election process, like most everything else involving government, is a sh!t-show.

[Rockstar]

Criticizing a process is different than criticizing a person.

I have no doubt that the election process, like most everything else involving government, is a sh!t-show.


I'll wave the B.S. flag on that first statement. In my book there is no difference. Look up the word discredit, both of their actions fit the bill. When a General publicly discredits a commander in chief it can cause people to doubt the authority intrusted to him. That's not something we can tolerate when the feces hits the fan.

As for the 'show' it's what goes on in the time between elections. Once elections are over you abide by the results and move on. Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt and provide some tangible evidence. You dont bring discredit to our election process and system of government by marching on the nations capital making accusations of stolen elections, fraud, cheating.

[bstanko6]

Well hold on Rockstar!

If a general discredits the commander in Chief...

There is a solution. Ask Obama!

His first year he fired the 5 star who discredited him! Can’t remember his name off hand.

See! Dems are pros at getting what they want at any cost!

[bstanko6]

Here it is!

https://www.bbc.com/news/10395402

[Rockstar]

Well good for Obama, I'm glad it worked out for him.

[bstanko6]

Hey! Democrats are pros at silencing free speech.

[Jeff-Groves]

Sorry. I've seen all 'The Purge' Movies.
This is just another sequel.
:haha:

[Rockstar]

Hey! Democrats are pros at silencing free speech.


Well you still seem pretty liberal with your speech, that must make you a democrat.

[bstanko6]

I’m speaking liberally. Which means that the Democrats haven’t gotten to me.

[Sonicfire1981]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHOK_9hWU5U

[bstanko6]

Sonic... LOL!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Qanon? Really!


They are a joke! Like Biden being elected! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

If you wanted to tell stories... I mean go ahead!

[Sonicfire1981]

Sonic... LOL!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Qanon? Really!


They are a joke! Like Biden being elected! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

If you wanted to tell stories... I mean go ahead!

I rest my case.

[Texas Red]

Sonic... LOL!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Qanon? Really!


They are a joke! Like Biden being elected! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

If you wanted to tell stories... I mean go ahead!


This is depressing. This shows what Trump has done in his past 4 years. Denied every claim that was credible, discredited people like Fauci, and thus thousands of more lives were lost because of his recklessness. That is why we blame Trump for some of the issues we had with COVID- many people would still be alive if he had followed science and fact and had not spread misinformation. He probably would still be president if he had handled COVID better early on. He has also caused social divisions between people in America to only run deeper, he has turned Americans against one another and brainwashed millions into following him blindly. The capitol riot (or siege, whatever you want to call it) is proof of how many he brainwashed. He told them to march right up the steps of Capitol Hill and "stop the steal". There was no steal, period. He was eventually forced into telling the rioters to go home, even then there was no hint of sincerity.

I get made fun of sometimes in school for supporting the Democrats. I get called "bidofile" (because kids in school say that Joe Biden is a pedophile and so since that I am a democrat I must be a pedophile too :shifty::roll: )
Heck, these are my own friends teasing me. This is proof of him turning Americans against each other, to what feels like the point of physical violence.

I rest my case too. I don't want to start a fight with what I just said.

[Buddahaid]

This is depressing. This shows what Trump has done in his past 4 years. Denied every claim that was credible, discredited people like Fauci, and thus thousands of more lives were lost because of his recklessness. That is why we blame Trump for some of the issues we had with COVID- many people would still be alive if he had followed science and fact and had not spread misinformation. He probably would still be president if he had handled COVID better early on. He has also caused social divisions between people in America to only run deeper, he has turned Americans against one another and brainwashed millions into following him blindly. The capitol riot (or siege, whatever you want to call it) is proof of how many he brainwashed. He told them to march right up the steps of Capitol Hill and "stop the steal". There was no steal, period. He was eventually forced into telling the rioters to go home, even then there was no hint of sincerity.

I get made fun of sometimes in school for supporting the Democrats. I get called "bidofile" (because kids in school say that Joe Biden is a pedophile and so since that I am a democrat I must be a pedophile too :shifty::roll: )
Heck, these are my own friends teasing me. This is proof of him turning Americans against each other, to what feels like the point of physical violence.

I rest my case too. I don't want to start a fight with what I just said.

Well said.

[MaDef]

Well said.And full of bull****.

[Sonicfire1981]

And full of bull****.

give the kid a break, man... It's your youth talking and you should be alarmed, not triggered.

[bstanko6]

EL wacko...

It wouldn’t of mattered if it was Trump, or Biden, or Obama, or Hillary Clinton… Nothing would’ve stop Covid from killing those people. While Biden was crying and screaming about Trump not handling it, Covid still claims many more lives even as we speak.

Biden has no answer for it. Fauci had no clue what was going on with it, he still doesn’t know if masks help or not.

Covid is just a terrible mess and any president who would’ve had to deal with it would’ve been held accountable for it. No matter what he did.

Using it as a way of putting Trump down was one of the lowest things that could’ve been done ever. When 9/11 occurred, there were idiots that tried to point at Bush is if he had been the one to have caused it.

[Cybermat47]

And full of bull****.

Then refute it. Tell us why he’s wrong. Don’t just say “he’s wrong” and completely fail to explain why.

The kid’s not even out of highschool yet and he’s better at debating politics than you.