US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Buddahaid]

If you can't claim it solved anything then you can't claim that it needed to be enacted. All it ended up being is another power grab by Washington like every other misguided do-gooder idea.

Meh. Lack of government checks and balances just leads to this.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbLFAFnUQAEeQGl.jpg

[Skybird]

How deep a fall. 20 years ago I thought "Wowh". Today, I am disgusted to the max, and not just since this week. I once said the former president brings out the worst in man. Guiliani is a textbook example.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/25/opinions/rudy-giuliani-suspended-callan/index.html

[August]

OOH..OOH... I know this one, the CRA of 1964 declared people were equal and should be treated the same way, regardless of race, color or national origin.

A declaration does not solve anything. We're on our way to become more racially segregated than at the worst of the jim crow era. Racial hatred is alive and growing and being promoted by the same government. All the CRA accomplished is to increase their power.

The civil war ended slavery, and while it was the catalyst for the war, "States Rights", the "Role of the Federal Government", and "Preservation of the Union". were the underlying cause of the war.No war is fought for a single reason, even including the War of Jenkins Ear regardless of the name, but again the Federal government came out of the civil war much larger and more powerful. That is always the end result and the lasting legacy.

[Dowly]

Miley compared CRT with works by Mao, Lenin, Hitler and others. They study such foundational writings of despots and their regimes as a way to gain insight into the mind of their enemy in order to better fight them.
No, he didn't compare CRT to Mao, Lenin and Hitler (he didn't even mention Hitler or Mao, that must be your subconscious speaking) nor did he say anything about studying these works specifically to better fight against them.

You lumping CRT with the others and insinuating that it is something the army must be prepared to fight against is simply dishonest and shows just how scared you are.

[August]

BIDEN'S RECKLESS THREAT. For a few minutes Thursday, it appeared President Joe Biden (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tag/joe-biden?utm_campaign=autolink&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=autolink) had found a way to pass big, bipartisan legislation in Washington's deeply divided atmosphere. "We have a deal," Biden proudly (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/24/remarks-by-president-biden-after-meeting-with-a-bipartisan-group-of-senators-on-infrastructure-negotiations/)announced in an impromptu press conference after meeting with some of the 21 Democratic and Republican senators who had negotiated a massive, bipartisan infrastructure proposal. Together, Biden said, the group would move forward to spend $579 billion on traditional infrastructure projects -- roads, bridges, trains, waterways, broadband -- that Republicans favor while including an emphasis on environmental measures that Democrats want.
It was a big moment. And then Biden threw it all away. In a second news conference a couple of hours later (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/24/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/) Thursday, Biden said that even if Congress passes the bipartisan bill he just touted, he would refuse to sign it unless lawmakers also pass a partisan spending measure -- Democrats call it "human infrastructure" -- that all Republicans oppose. For that bill to pass, Democrats would have to muster all 50 of their votes in the Senate and then rely on Vice President Kamala Harris (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tag/kamala-harris?utm_campaign=autolink&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=autolink) to break the tie. Then, Biden said, both bills -- the deal and the deal-killer -- have to come to his desk at the same time for him to sign them.

The bills have to come "promptly and in tandem," Biden explained. "Let me emphasize that: in tandem." What if that doesn't happen? "If they don't come, I'm not signing," Biden added. "Real simple."
Biden's threat was news to Republicans, even some of the ones who had been negotiating the bipartisan proposal. On one hand, the president sang the praises of bipartisanship, leading Republicans to think he might actually work with them, and then Biden, citing a plan devised by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tag/nancy-pelosi?utm_campaign=autolink&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=autolink) and Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer, reneged on the whole thing.
Republican anger followed. Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer "literally pulled the rug out from under their bipartisan negotiators," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. As for the president, McConnell said, "It was a tale of two press conferences -- endorse the agreement in one breath and threaten to veto it in the next."

GOP Senator Lindsey Graham, who was one of the bipartisan group of 21 negotiators, was much more blunt. If Biden is going to tie the two bills together, Graham told Politico Playbook (https://www.politico.com/playbook), "He can forget it! I'm not doing that. That's extortion! I'm not going to do that. The Dems are being told you can't get your bipartisan work product passed unless you sign on to what the left wants, and I'm not playing that game."
Graham said most GOP senators, and even some inside the bipartisan group, did not know the Biden-Pelosi-Schumer plan. "Most Republicans could not have known that," he told Politico. "There's no way. You look like a f---ing idiot now. I don't mind bipartisanship, but I'm not going to do a suicide mission." And that was that. The bright, shining bipartisan deal instantly became much less than it seemed.


For a brief moment Thursday, it appeared that Biden had adopted the old -- and successful -- practice of Bill Clinton's called "triangulation." He would bypass the fringes of both parties in order to reach an agreement with the middle on a type of spending that is generally popular with many Americans. But it soon became clear that it was just a ruse for Biden to lay claim to bipartisanship while keeping the progressive wing of his party happy.
In his first press conference Thursday, Biden, who spent 36 years in the Senate, stressed the importance of honesty in negotiations. "You know, a lot of us go back a long way, where we're used to doing one thing: Give each other our word and that's the end," Biden said. "Nobody questions it. They have my word, I'll stick with what they proposed, and they've given me their word as well. So, where I come from, that's good enough for me."
On the infrastructure deal, Biden's word lasted about two hours.



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/byron-yorks-daily-memo-bidens-reckless-threat

[Catfish]

[...]The civil war ended slavery, and while it was the catalyst for the war, "States Rights", the "Role of the Federal Government", and "Preservation of the Union". were the underlying cause of the war.
You think so?

https://i.imgur.com/IVwe6l1m.jpg

[mapuc]

I guess the main reason to the American Civil war wasn't just because of the Slavery, I'm pretty sure there were other factors.

Mixed these together and you have a recipe on a civil war

Markus

[August]

No, he didn't compare CRT to Mao, Lenin and Hitler (he didn't even mention Hitler or Mao, that must be your subconscious speaking) nor did he say anything about studying these works specifically to better fight against them.

You lumping CRT with the others and insinuating that it is something the army must be prepared to fight against is simply dishonest and shows just how scared you are.

Ohh yeah dowly i'm "scared"! :roll: Always trying to make it personal arn'tcha?

Looking back the good generals film clip, i agree that he didn't say hitler but he certainly did say mao. He also included the ...tse tung and I guess that must have been your subconscious troll mind preventing you from making the connection right. See I can make stupid assumptions too. :doh:

The US military studies the works and lives of Mao tse Tung, Marx, Lenin, hitler and other despotic evil ideologies for that exact reason of helping to defeat their forces on the battlefield, and btw the General claims he remains free of becoming a communist.

If they are teaching CRT in the same manner as those other crackpot ideologies then I have no problem with it but since the army has already fired commanders who have criticized CRT and they are only now defending it because they got caught lying about teaching it in the first place I believe it is being presented as an officially approved belief system for our officers to follow. Prove me wrong or shut up.

[Catfish]

Some comments here are the direct answer why CRT is indeed needed to make people at least aware of the general situation.

[Dowly]

The US military studies the works and lives of Mao tse Tung, Marx, Lenin, hitler and other despotic evil ideologies for that exact reason of helping to defeat their forces on the battlefield, and btw the General claims he remains free of becoming a communist.
I'm sure the US military does exactly that, but that's not what General Milley stated. He was speaking about having personally read those works and that it doesn't make him a communist. Just like teaching CRT doesn't make you whatever it supposedly makes you, I don't even know.

If they are teaching CRT in the same manner as those other crackpot ideologies then I have no problem with it but since the army has already fired commanders who have criticized CRT and they are only now defending it because they got caught lying about teaching it in the first place I believe it is being presented as an officially approved belief system for our officers to follow. Prove me wrong or shut up.From what I've gathered, CRT is being taught as part of a wider course on racism and civil rights. I'd agree that it probably wouldnt be the best idea if taught on its own, but I don't see the issue of it being a piece of a bigger picture.

Ohh yeah dowly i'm "scared"! :roll: Always trying to make it personal arn'tcha?

Looking back the good generals film clip, i agree that he didn't say hitler but he certainly did say mao. He also included the ...tse tung and I guess that must have been your subconscious troll mind preventing you from making the connection right. See I can make stupid assumptions too. :doh:Trying to make it personal? I thought I was already past trying. :hmmm:

As for your stupid assumption, I fully agree; you sure can make them. See, you quoted me after I had already edited my post to cross over Mao, so nice try but that just makes you look silly. Oh right, and constantly calling me a troll is 'making it personal', so quit your fake outrage.

[MaDef]

[QUOTE=Catfish;2754702]You think so?

I think you need to re-read what I wrote

[MaDef]

Some comments here are the direct answer why CRT is indeed needed to make people at least aware of the general situation.

What "situation" is that?

[Catfish]

I think you need to re-read what I wrote
I posted what you wrote directly above my qestion. What the photo of the declaration says is that keeping slavery was not the 'initial cause', but their cause as such.
That Lincoln may have had other ideas going beyond, to suppress future rebellion, does not change the southern reason and cause for the secession.

[Catfish]

What "situation" is that?
It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism. Not much people are actually racist (a few, of course) or actively do something against black people, Mexicans, or against "people coming from sh!tholes" as Mr. T. so elegantly described.
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort."

[mapuc]

^ Is the American law racist in its construction ?

By reading your comment it made me wonder if this should be the case.

Markus

[3catcircus]

It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism. Not much people are actually racist (a few, of course) or actively do something against black people, Mexicans, or against "people coming from sh!tholes" as Mr. T. so elegantly described.
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort."

Systemic racism *does* *not* *exist* in the US. If it did, then people of color wouldn't even be allowed to become doctors or lawyers, or buy houses, or obtain medical care.

Equality of opportunity is guaranteed, not equality of outcome. Minorities have received special treatment for so long, that they view equal treatment as racist and discriminatory.

The *only* people and groups continuing to claim systemic racism is a thing are those for whom it is a grift that they have to keep the grift going to continue lining their pockets.

Can anyone explain how many people Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton have helped in the last 40+ years? How about BLM? I guess Patrisse Cullers was planning on providing affordable housing to black people with her millions in real estate?

It's not just limited to race - you can pick any -ism to run a grift. Sexual identity and gender politics are also a good one to take gullible people's money...

[MaDef]

Is the American law racist in its construction What do you think systemic racism is?

I posted what you wrote directly above my qestion. What the photo of the declaration says is that keeping slavery was not the 'initial cause', but their cause as such. Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

[3catcircus]

What do you think systemic racism is?

Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

In some places it's still in the open: Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia...

[MaDef]

In some places it's still in the open: Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia...

we're speaking of the U.S. here, Other parts of the world aren't really my concern for the purpose of this discussion.

[3catcircus]

we're speaking of the U.S. here, Other parts of the world aren't really my concern for the purpose of this discussion.

You're making a fallacious assumption that racism only exists in the US when that couldn't be further from the truth - and that only racism is associated with slavery.

I've lived and worked around the world - the US is the *least* racist, sexist, classist country that exists today.

Japan, for example, is the most polite racist country you'll ever see. The entire country. They won't grant citizenship to Japanese people born in another country. They have Japanese-only bars, restaurants, public baths, etc. They'll tell a round-eye that something is not possible (with the phrase "maybe yes" which means "no way in hell") and then turm around and happily accommodate a Japanese person to do the same thing.

Australia? They're still treating aboriginal people like second class citizens.

India? It's nothing but based upon caste...

Let's not forget wealthy middle eastern people who hire maids from Philippines or Singapore and then take away their passports and work them like dogs with no pay...

All of the Russian and Ukrainian sex slave bar girls in Pusan bars... The Eastern European and Philipino singing acts hired on 6 month contracts to play at hotel bars in Asian countries that are essentially indentured...

I was at a bar in South Korea one night where a philipino asked me if I wanted "company." I turned down the offer but noticed a small scar on one side of her thigh and a bigger scar on the opposite side. Just about the size of a .22 bullet. I got her talking where she admitted her "manager" when she was working at a bar in Philippines shot her for trying to quit and then sent her to Korea, swapping with that bar owner to send a Korean girl to work in his bar... Yep - no slavery elsewhere but the US...

[Moonlight]

We have slavery in the UK too, the migrants are smuggled in by criminal gangs from europe or where ever they can get them from and they're forced to work in backstreet sweatshops, me thinks prostitution will be involved as well.
The poor bastards don't have a bleeding chance of a decent life, the police and our government knows it's happening but they do **** all to stop it, if the authorities happen to discover a building housing these sweatshop migrants then the newspapers give them grief for a few days and then it disappears into the night again. :o
I would say it's happening all over europe, no country is free of this scourge.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/TQ9yCOHiGEQ

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/A-r901KkIJ0

[MaDef]

You're making a fallacious assumption that racism only exists in the US when that couldn't be further from the truth - and that only racism is associated with slavery.

I've lived and worked around the world - the US is the *least* racist, sexist, classist country that exists today.

Japan, for example, is the most polite racist country you'll ever see. The entire country. They won't grant citizenship to Japanese people born in another country. They have Japanese-only bars, restaurants, public baths, etc. They'll tell a round-eye that something is not possible (with the phrase "maybe yes" which means "no way in hell") and then turm around and happily accommodate a Japanese person to do the same thing.

Australia? They're still treating aboriginal people like second class citizens.

India? It's nothing but based upon caste...

Let's not forget wealthy middle eastern people who hire maids from Philippines or Singapore and then take away their passports and work them like dogs with no pay...

All of the Russian and Ukrainian sex slave bar girls in Pusan bars... The Eastern European and Philipino singing acts hired on 6 month contracts to play at hotel bars in Asian countries that are essentially indentured...

I was at a bar in South Korea one night where a philipino asked me if I wanted "company." I turned down the offer but noticed a small scar on one side of her thigh and a bigger scar on the opposite side. Just about the size of a .22 bullet. I got her talking where she admitted her "manager" when she was working at a bar in Philippines shot her for trying to quit and then sent her to Korea, swapping with that bar owner to send a Korean girl to work in his bar... Yep - no slavery elsewhere but the US... You're reading way to much into what I wrote, the discussion is about racism in the U.S. and whether it's systemic. And for the record, the 1619 project inevitably links slavery with racism in it's curriculum. (FYI it also teaches that pale skin is a sign of racism).

As for racism being the only cause of slavery, (your words not mine), you inferred it on your own since my statements are pretty concise. However history does indicate that where racism is accepted slavery is right there in the mix kind of like peas and carrots.

[mapuc]

What do you think systemic racism is?

Re-read my post. "Cause" + "Catalyst" are not synonyms. Nor am I trying to downplay the role slavery played in the Civil War.

And while many of you think slavery was ended with the end of the "Civil War", think again. It went underground (no pun intended) and is called "human trafficking".

My comment was a question to Catfish based on his comment in #1514(one page back)

Where he wrote:
"
It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism.
"
And furthermore
"
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.
"
It was the words Systemic racism, that made me wonder if the American law is racist in its construction

Markus

[Catfish]

My comment was a question to Catfish based on his comment in #1514(one page back)

Where he wrote:
"
It is about the underlying situation called systemic racism.
"
And furthermore
"
Systemic racism is so deeply embedded in american culture and behaviour that it is not even recognised as such anymore. It is what sociologists call cognitive dissonance, the "discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.
"
It was the words Systemic racism, that made me wonder if the American law is racist in its construction

Markus
Trying to answer that, initially it was of course "racist" by today's definition, like a lot of other nations of the time. I have no idea whether slavery was written down as an existing law, but it was self-evidently accepted everywhere, what would you need laws for?
The initial U.S. economy especially in the south was built on the exploitation and occupational segregation of people of color.
Laws were there in a way that any marriage between black and white was not allowed, which punishment should be used, how much a negro should cost and which basic support he had to receive, like food, water and clothes. The slave holder had a bit of responsibility, but no one really cared about breaking those laws.
There could also be mutual respect by both sdes, but the underlying system was only supprting the white population.
"Funny" enough people of colour lost their right to vote soon again, after the secession wars, then the indroduction of the "Jim Crow laws", and worse. Those laws have since been removed, but not the basis how some people still think.
Then there were the Indians, the (broken) treaties, the reservations. Female indians are still regarded as fair game by the white population, up north to Canada. If someone is interested in that stuff you can read some works by Tomson Highway, who we have met personally, if accidentally.

This first link tells a lot about the economy back then and how it worked:
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2019/08/07/472910/systematic-inequality-economic-opportunity/

This probably tells you a bit about what i mean with 'systemic', today. First one is a spin-off of the second link, which shows a broader picture.
https://www.annualreviews.org/shot-of-science/story/racism-roots-in-law

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-lawsocsci-110316-113452

Slavery is of course linked to racism, but racism can exist without direct slavery being allowed.

[mapuc]

^Thank you for your answer.

Second link made me sad. I had hoped some of you would have written no-the American law is not racist in its construction and
then I read in the headlines in your second link

U.S. Racism and Inequality Are Rooted in the Law

Markus

[u crank]

Female indians are still regarded as fair game by the white population, up north to Canada.

I think you might want to rephrase that statement. I am a white Canadian male and I do not consider Indigenous women 'fair game'. And I don't know any other Canadian men who think that way either. And I don't appreciate the accusation.

[Catfish]

@ mapuc i Would rather call it systemic inequality, not racist hate. Much more subtle.

@u crank: It sure is not the majority, but there is evidence.

[u crank]

@u crank: It sure is not the majority, but there is evidence.

Perhaps you could have stated that instead of a broad statement that accuses all white Canadian men of rape and murder. And no one that I know is denying the fact that it has happened.

[mapuc]

I think almost every country in the world has a skeleton in their closet.

Denmark-They way the treated the eskimoes
Sweden-They way the treated the indians(can't find the English word for Samerna)

Markus

[Rockstar]

I think almost every country in the world has a skeleton in their closet.

Denmark-They way the treated the eskimoes
Sweden-They way the treated the indians(can't find the English word for Samerna)

Markus


Yep every nation and every tribe. Comanche indians of the American west were as brutal towards non-Comanche as Germans are towards non-Germans.

Comanche nearly brought to extinction the Tonkowa tribe. The few left became scouts for the U.S. Army. Its said that because of the fear of Comamche raids the Spanish invited American settelers into Texas to be used as a buffer between them and the Comanche.

[Buddahaid]

It still doesn't make it right, just deplorably common historically.

[Rockstar]

It still doesn't make it right, just deplorably common historically.


The Comanche thought it was right.

[Buddahaid]

The Comanche thought it was right.

Oh,:yeah: I guess it's alright then.

[Rockstar]

Hey look just when you thought you voted out facisim. Even before 6 Jan I thought I noticed a sudden burst of media chatter over fears of domestic terrorism. We had to start fearing our neighbors and what we say now.



Now I know why.

https://youtu.be/AKGy2hmv8Xk

[August]

after[/I] I had already edited my post to cross over Mao, so nice try but that just makes you look silly. Oh right, and constantly calling me a troll is 'making it personal', so quit your fake outrage.


Ahh you crossed it over, which just means that I am correct in that you originally missed it and had to just throw it right out there. And yeah you ARE a troll. You constantly use words directed at people like outraged, scared, silly just to use three I don't have to look that far for but there are many many more. It seems to be your thing, you seem to revel in it, so why do you deny it?

[Bilge_Rat]

"systemic racism" is nothing new, it is just the catch phrase which is currently in fashion.

In every human society for the past 10,000 years, you have had a ruling class that controls the military/political power and most of the wealth. It can be based on race, religion, culture, langauge, etc.

Children of the ruling class always have advantages since they have access to the best education, official positions and business opportunities so the ruling class tends to perpetuate itself through the generations.

Obviously, the "ruling class" will adopt laws and a judicial sytem to perpetuate their rule and keep the lower classes in line.

You will always have people from the other classes who decry the advantages of the current ruling class. You may even have social or political revolutions that overturn the current system and ruling class, but the inevitable result will be the creation of a new ruling class which brings you back to square one.

[mapuc]

Why is it that former White house worker under Trump are now stepping forward and telling news channel like CNN that is was BS.

Saw about 10 minutes CNN news last night and they had an issue with Barr who has changed his mind regarding this voter fraud accusation from Trump.

Then Barr was in a way defending Trump..now he says it was BS.

Looks like they try to save their own skin.

Markus

[Dowly]

Ahh you crossed it over, which just means that I am correct in that you originally missed it and had to just throw it right out there.That's like saying you know the result of a football game, after seeing the result of said football game. :doh:

And yeah you ARE a troll. You constantly use words directed at people like outraged, scared, silly just to use three I don't have to look that far for but there are many many more. It seems to be your thing, you seem to revel in it, so why do you deny it?That's not trolling, that's making it personal. Which makes two of us. So, again, quit your fake outrage over crap you yourself do just the same.

[vienna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XJlAQscVbI





<O>

[Catfish]

Why is it that former White house worker under Trump are now stepping forward and telling news channel like CNN that is was BS.
Markus
They need a bit more time than normal people.

[u crank]

And now on a more lighthearted note ....:D

The U.S. media is the least trustworthy in the world, according to a comprehensive new Reuters Institute survey encompassing 46 countries.

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/560480-us-finishes-dead-last-in-media-trust-among-46-countries-heres-why

The country with among the most resources in this arena – human, technical and otherwise – finished dead last. Finland ranked the highest, with a 65 percent trust rating. In Kenya, the trust rating clocked in at 61 percent.

But here in the U.S.A., the home of global media giants including the New York Times, Washington Post and CNN, we’re trusted by a whopping 29 percent of those reading and watching.

[mapuc]

^ Reading your post resulted in one important question:

Why ? Why does only 29 % of the American trust their media.

Would be interesting to know the reason.

Markus

[u crank]

I think the reason is pretty obvious Markus. People know when they are being lied to.

[mapuc]

I think the reason is pretty obvious Markus. People know when they are being lied to.

Do we !?
Let me take this Corona pandemic

I have friends who are convince it's a hoax, they are entitle to believe this. I am not an expert in virology so I believe what the authorities tells me.

I do not have the knowledge to reject what they tell me.

Not all news is fake, far from it..It can have a political bias this depends on the journalist where he stands politically.

Despite this around 92 % of the Rep. voters say....news is fake news.

Then there is this Russian news RT who try to influence the voters in USA and other western countries.

For me it's har to see different if it's fake or not and I'm talking about news given to me from our main stream media. I know news from RT shall be taken with a ton of salt.

Markus

[Rockstar]

^ Reading your post resulted in one important question:

Why ? Why does only 29 % of the American trust their media.

Would be interesting to know the reason.

Markus

https://youtu.be/Pd7rpvS06nU

[Rockstar]

Old news but a good example why corporate media sucks.



https://youtu.be/n5ZQYNScqh8

[MaDef]

Do we !? For me it's har to see different if it's fake or not and I'm talking about news given to me from our main stream media. I know news from RT shall be taken with a ton of salt.
Markus

There's an easy fix, believe nothing you hear and only 1/2 of what you see. Follow that rule and you generally can figure out the truth.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Ahhh, but how does a person define what the "truth" is these days? Is the truth what a large group of people consider to be "truth" or is it the individual who decides? If one or person is telling a lie or falsehood and a group of people believe it is it then considered the "truth" by that group?

[Catfish]

Always funny to see statistics about what people believe or not, especially regarding political polls, newspapers or truth. It is absolutely insignificant (also statistically) what people *believe* when it comes to make a decision based on facts.

[Catfish]

Always funny to see statistics about what people believe or not, especially regarding political polls, newspapers or truth. It is absolutely insignificant (also statistically) what people *believe* when it comes to making a decision that should be based on facts.
Last month i read uk media are the worst, while i take it that russian and chinese are surely worse.
After four years of Trump it does not matter anyway, if someone believed anything of his bs it's a lost cause. ;)

[Skybird]

The value and power and influence of rationality and reason in human decision making is terribly overestimated. The bigger the crowd, the less it takes to take reasonability out. Egoism trumps responsibility at the leaderhsip level, too.

Always assume the worst. And be pleasently surprised if if does not happen.


There are even psychological studies showing that pessimists and realists are more successful than optimists. Because the first tend to be more often better prepared than the latter.

[u crank]

Always funny to see statistics about what people believe or not, especially regarding political polls, newspapers or truth. It is absolutely insignificant (also statistically) what people *believe* when it comes to make a decision based on facts.

It's not a matter of what people believe as much as who is providing the information we are expected to evaluate. In the Jimmy Dore / Glenn Greenwald interview posted by Rockstar the problem is clearly exposed. Their discussion about Chris Hayes of MSNBC says it all. The lack of self awareness that people like Hayes and all of the media stars have is stunning. These people are not journalists but corporate shills who say what they are told to say. And that is the problem. If the facts are delivered by untrustworthy people then what?

[mapuc]

Ahhh, but how does a person define what the "truth" is these days? Is the truth what a large group of people consider to be "truth" or is it the individual who decides? If one or person is telling a lie or falsehood and a group of people believe it is it then considered the "truth" by that group?

You're addressing an interesting thing.

How can I define what is true and not.

When I see the primetime news on one of our public tv channels I have to believe what I see and heard is as true as possible.

I could as MaDef said
"There's an easy fix, believe nothing you hear and only 1/2 of what you see. Follow that rule and you generally can figure out the truth."

If I should follow this rule I should not believe what our authorities tells me about Corona virus, nor shall I believe my friends(I do not believe them anyway, when it comes to this Corona)

And that's why I have decided to stay neutral in politics and society related problems.

An another thing.
What a person see as truth or fake is mostly based on this person political standpoint and perhaps their social standpoints.

Markus

[3catcircus]

You're addressing an interesting thing.

How can I define what is true and not.

When I see the primetime news on one of our public tv channels I have to believe what I see and heard is as true as possible.

I could as MaDef said
"There's an easy fix, believe nothing you hear and only 1/2 of what you see. Follow that rule and you generally can figure out the truth."

If I should follow this rule I should not believe what our authorities tells me about Corona virus, nor shall I believe my friends(I do not believe them anyway, when it comes to this Corona)

And that's why I have decided to stay neutral in politics and society related problems.

An another thing.
What a person see as truth or fake is mostly based on this person political standpoint and perhaps their social standpoints.

Markus

To some extent, this is true.

There are several issues that give rise to disbelief in the news.

1. "Experts" who aren't. I'll use Fauci since he is an easy target. He's not a virologist or epidemiologist. He's an immunologist who moved from the ranks of active researcher to administrator years ago. Someone like that is *not* the right expert to address a pandemic because he's focused on zero-risk based upon immunological factors (a single point addressing of how to respond) - not on the impact of human nature on how a pandemic unfolds. You need someone *intimately* familiar with actual human nature and a separate someone also familiar with how disease *actually* spreads. Then you also need someone who is familiar with what can reasonably be done from a marketing/messaging standpoint. Fauci is none of these. The various modelers showing millions dead aren't either. They've pretty much all been wrong in their predictions.

2. Unbiased experts. You can't have people advising government if they have a conflict of interest - even the appearance of bias is a problem.

3. Politicization of science. You can't have people citing various studies (on either side of the political aisle) to push public policy if the citing doesn't pass the smell test. When you have people asking common sense questions and don't address them seriously, it leads to conspiracy theory thoughts. A simple one: if masks and social distancing are supposed to prevent covid transmission and the experts claim that it prevented flu season this year, why did covid cases continue on throughout that time instead of also dropping? Instead of ignoring, deflecting, etc., a better response from the experts would have been to explain that coronaviruses are strongly seasonal and they outcompeted flu. Which *also* tracks with why covid started to decrease after January as we entered rhinovirus season which outcompeted covid. Again, the other piece is actual masks and distancing vs claims of them could have resulted in continued transmission. The piece that needs to be addressed is whether masks *actually* work against covid or if it is actually airborne without needing the medium of exhaled breath since we know it's smaller in size than a mask weave. Again - address the questions rather than ridiculing the questioner...

[Rockstar]

Another good look into the blue-anon liberal media. To think some believe Democrats are more inclusive than Republicans, what a joke. Liberal media is the Q-anon of the left but on a much grander scale having a national broadcast and a following of liberal lemmings.

https://youtu.be/hDRoqIgUgEg

[Catfish]

“They’re turning the frogs gay”: the psychology behind internet conspiracy theories
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2017/03/they-re-turning-frogs-gay-psychology-behind-internet-conspiracy

[Buddahaid]

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007606996/capitol-riot-trump-supporters.html

[Rockstar]

Liberals destroyed the black family unit then blame everyone else for their failures

https://youtu.be/6nuVhEdAgOY

[Catfish]

^ Were there really 'liberals' back then? Does this whitewash what happened after 1930?
Or it was the LEFT, and the EVIL, and the EU !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olbbhTSwDIk

[August]

Liberals destroyed the black family unit then blame everyone else for their failures

https://youtu.be/6nuVhEdAgOY


:up:

[3catcircus]

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007606996/capitol-riot-trump-supporters.html

As opposed to the 12+ months of rage from the left that the NYT and others pretend doesn't exist.

We're well past the point of believing *anything* from the NYT (or WaPo, or NBC, BBC, etc.)

[Buddahaid]

You mean you. Leave me out of your rant.

Did you even watch it?

[Catfish]

Ignore all that is not mentioned in Fox news, it's the new normal for some.

[eddie]

Ignore all that is not mentioned in Fox news, it's the new normal for some.


That's for sure! If it comes out of the mouth of #$%ker Carlson, its the truth!! Same with Alex Jones, and Steve Bannon, and they worship at the feet of Marjorie Taylor-Greene, ugliest woman in the Conservative corner,lol Former President Chumps loyal follower, just too stupid to keep her big mouth shut.

[3catcircus]

That's for sure! If it comes out of the mouth of #$%ker Carlson, its the truth!! Same with Alex Jones, and Steve Bannon, and they worship at the feet of Marjorie Taylor-Greene, ugliest woman in the Conservative corner,lol Former President Chumps loyal follower, just too stupid to keep her big mouth shut.

Have you ever watched them, with an open and unbiased mind?

Behind the bombastic delivery, look at what they're actually saying and what data has been used.

Alex Jones, in particular, has been far closer to the truth far too often, even if he is a circus sideshow barker.

You have to stop blindly listening to leftist media and start thinking for yourself. My best advice: read the same subject from at least three different (and opposing viewpoint) sources.

[Rockstar]

That's for sure! If it comes out of the mouth of #$%ker Carlson, its the truth!! Same with Alex Jones, and Steve Bannon, and they worship at the feet of Marjorie Taylor-Greene, ugliest woman in the Conservative corner,lol Former President Chumps loyal follower, just too stupid to keep her big mouth shut.

Gee I reckon you must watch them a lot huh?

‘Projections change the world into the replica of one’s own unknown face.”
– C.G. Jung

We see others not as they are, but as we are. While the most obvious example of projection is seeing our own shadow traits in others, this can also be true of those traits we view as desirable, since the ego projects anything it is unable to identify with. An example of this could be someone who is jealous of a friend’s beauty or intelligence, but is unable to recognize those traits in him- or herself.

[Buddahaid]

New released FBI video of 1/6/2021.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/washingtondc/news/press-releases/fbi-washington-field-office-releases-new-videos-of-suspects-in-violent-assaults-on-federal-officers-at-us-capitol-seeks-publics-help-in-identifying-them-070621

[Rockstar]

So what are the numbers of those who think q-anon is real compared to the number of liberal lemmings that believe and act on the lies of a national news broadcast of MSNBC?

[mapuc]

Remember:

It's only lies if it goes against what you believe and what your standpoint is.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

Gee I don't know. Why didn't you supply that wisdom instead of just baiting people with loaded questions and slurs?

[August]

Gee I don't know. Why didn't you supply that wisdom instead of just baiting people with loaded questions and slurs?




Are you talking to Eddie?

[Catfish]

[...] Alex Jones, in particular, has been far closer to the truth far too often, even if he is a circus sideshow barker.
You have to stop blindly listening to leftist media and start thinking for yourself.
Alex Jones :haha: ok i'm out of arguments.
My best advice: read the same subject from at least three different (and opposing viewpoint) sources.This is sound advice, but you should also do it :hmmm:

[Buddahaid]

Are you talking to Eddie?

Rockstar. Mapuc's post jumped in while I was typing.

[Rockstar]

Me? I was commenting on eddies sexist & mysogynist slurs about women who he obviously feels threatened by. :haha:

[Buddahaid]

Well what do I know...

[Rockstar]

I just thought it unbecoming for anyone to call a woman stupid and ugly. Apparently it’s OK to use those kinds of slurs if you’re a liberal.

[Buddahaid]

I just thought it unbecoming for anyone to call a woman stupid and ugly. Apparently it’s OK to use those kinds of slurs if you’re a liberal.

I didn't read his post apparently and just responded to yours at face value.

[MaDef]

I didn't read his post apparently and just responded to yours at face value.
That's the crux of the problems today, people just spout off without thinking things through. (not singling you out Buddahaid, everyone does it to some extent, some more than others.) Which leads to arguments over the minutiae rather than discussions on the issue itself.

[Buddahaid]

That's the crux of the problems today, people just spout off without thinking things through. (not singling you out Buddahaid, everyone does it to some extent, some more than others.) Which leads to arguments over the minutiae rather than discussions on the issue itself.

Since there was no link between the two posts how would I know. Something I was guilty of in my comment in question.

[Reece]

Settle down children or there will be some spankings!! :D

[Buddahaid]

Settle down children or there will be some spankings!! :D

WHO'S UPSET!! :shucks:

[mapuc]

Not me, I sit here with my popcorn and watch all the fun evolving in front of me.

Markus

[August]

Settle down children or there will be some spankings!! :D


New whip? :03:

[Reece]

Yes, leather naturally! :yep:

[August]

Naturally! Although I hear good things about hemp rope these days.

[Texas Red]

Rockstar, you do need to tone it down a little. You are starting to push it, calling people names and baiting them as Buddhiad said.

I just thought it unbecoming for anyone to call a woman stupid and ugly. Apparently it’s OK to use those kinds of slurs if you’re a liberal.

Read. This. Now.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/trump-complete-insult-list.html
Liberals aren't the only ones here using slurs and such.

[Reece]

I hear good things about hemp rope these days.

Hmm, must give it a try,:hmmm: sounds kinky!! :oops::D

[August]

Excellent article. Very insightful. If you're wondering why Trump supporters feel as they do this article does a great job of describing the feeling and does so from a fairly neutral standpoint.

...This is where people whose political identity was largely defined by a naive belief in what they learned in Civics class began to see the outline of a Regime that crossed all institutional boundaries. Because it had stepped out of the shadows to unite against an interloper. GOP propaganda still has many of them thinking in terms of partisan binaries, but A LOT of Trump supporters see that the Regime is not partisan. They all know that the same institutions would have taken opposite sides if it was a Tulsi Gabbard vs Jeb Bush election.

It's hard to describe to people on the left (who are used to thinking of gov't as a conspiracy... Watergate, COINTELPRO, WMD, etc) how shocking & disillusioning this was for people who encourage their sons to enlist in the Army, and hate ppl who don't stand for the Anthem.

They could have managed the shock if it only involved the government. But the behavior of the corporate press is really what radicalized them. They hate journalists more than they hate any politician or gov't official, because they feel most betrayed by them.

The idea that the press is driven by ratings/sensationalism became untenable. If that were true, they'd be all over the Epstein story. The corporate press is the propaganda arm of the Regime they now see in outline. Nothing anyone says will ever make them unsee that, period.

This is profoundly disorienting. Many of them don't know for certain whether ballots were faked in November 2020, but they know for absolute certain that the press, the FBI, etc would lie to them if there was. They have every reason to believe that, and it's probably true.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html

[mapuc]

What is this voting rights I hear of now and then on CNN. Can't remember if it is the GOP or the Dems who's against it. I understand it has something to do with some changes to these rights.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

Excellent article. Very insightful. If you're wondering why Trump supporters feel as they do this article does a great job of describing the feeling and does so from a fairly neutral standpoint.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html

I'm not sure I buy that as neutral. At least the way the left gets described isn't how I feel at all plus I think it glosses the radical right aspect over and dwells on corporate media sins. Anyway good read.

[3catcircus]

I'm not sure I buy that as neutral. At least the way the left gets described isn't how I feel at all plus I think it glosses the radical right aspect over and dwells on corporate media sins. Anyway good read.

It doesn't have to be neutral if it is valid.

Fact of the matter is that the US government from the President down to the lowliest elected official in the smallest town in the US is a corrupt disaster. Media, tech, and entertainment are all in bed with them. It'd be better to burn it all down and start over from just first principles in the Constitution.

[Buddahaid]

That's your opinion and I understand it, but I trust the right wing media less, and take main stream media with a large grain of salt. I think we argue from differing day to day realities over vast distances and locations. That's the USA and it makes it difficult to find the common ground.

[les green01]

screw biden and the dems i was getting insulin for 250 under trump just bought some cost me 450

[Buddahaid]

screw biden and the dems i was getting insulin for 250 under trump just bought some cost me 450

So what changed and when and why did it change?

[MaDef]

So what changed and when and why did it change?
It changed in March of 2020 when when the Idiots in Washington and the Various States decided to quarantine the majority of the Country which tanked the economy. They then doubled down on their stupidity by spending money they didn't have to make up for putting people out of work. As a result, we (the people) now have to deal with inflation and future higher taxes because the Government not only borrowed money, but printed it to try and cover for their debacle. I think that pretty much covers the salient points, you kids can argue over the details.

[Buddahaid]

Sounds like an argument for single payer healthcare. Lean on the do nothing Republicans in the Senate.

[Rockstar]

Sounds like an argument for single payer healthcare. Lean on the do nothing Republicans in the Senate.

“Do nothing Republicans” ? :har: Still drinking the blue-anon koolaid. :yeah:

https://youtu.be/w7GN0daaq5I

Even in California when they had a ‘super majority’ refused to do it.

https://youtu.be/xzjFfOFnDwg

[MaDef]

A surefire way to screw something up is to put the Government in charge of it.

[Rockstar]

A surefire way to screw something up is to put the Government in charge of it.

Our government organization is set up as a good thing, little slowing moving at times but it can achieve great things. What’s screwed up is we keep voting in the same people over and over again expecting different results. Definition of insanity?

[Skybird]

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/heat-wave-drought-strain-us-power-grid-rcna1315


Good questions come from that.

[August]

At least the way the left gets described isn't how I feel at all plus I think it glosses the radical right aspect over and dwells on corporate media sins. Anyway good read.


I sympathize with you. People are always telling me how I feel on any given subject based on my positions on totally unrelated subjects. For example if I am pro-gun then I must by default also be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty because those are considered to be default positions for "my side".

[Catfish]

^ and ^^ Fair enough.

[Rockstar]

Questions About the FBI's Role in 1/6 Are Mocked Because the FBI Shapes Liberal Corporate Media

The FBI has been manufacturing and directing terror plots and criminal rings for decades. But now, reverence for security state agencies reigns.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/questions-about-the-fbis-role-in


The questions raised by the Revolver News reporting, which none of these smug FBI defenders and guardians of the liberal consensus can answer, remain:

How is it remotely credible that the FBI did not have informants in these three groups that they have been identifying as major threats for years, especially given the reporting that the leader of the Proud Boys — conveniently arrested the day before January 6 — was an FBI informant in the past, along with the confirmed reporting that the FBI had multiple informants in the Michigan Three Percenters case?
Why are low-level protesters being charged with major crimes while the alleged organizers of this riot and the leaders of these groups have not been?
Why are enormous amounts of video surveillance footage from January 6 still being concealed?
What happened to the alleged planting of pipe bombs near the Capitol?
Why did the FBI not take more aggressive action given the once-denied but now-confirmed fact that the social media platform Parler sent the FBI advanced warnings of specific plots to use violence at the Capitol?


Nobody is claiming to know the answers to those questions, including Revolver News, Carlson, or anyone else. Instead, they are doing the work of actual journalists — pointing out the gaping holes in the public record about what we do and do not know about an event that is being exploited to launch a new domestic War on Terror, prompt massive new police and security state spending, and empower and justify new domestic surveillance and censorship authorities. Anyone not asking these questions or, worse, trying to delegitmize them, is a propagandist and has no business calling themselves a journalist. :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

Biden Erased Decades of Historic Crimes in His Speech to Congress

Biden's claim that the Capitol Riot was the "worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War" is ahistorical garbage.

https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/biden-erased-decades-of-historic


… If President Biden is to suggest that the siege on Capitol Hill on January 6th was "the worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War," then we should demand that our leaders be honest about what does and does not constitute an "attack on our democracy." Attacks on our democracy aren't just reserved for storming the U.S. Capitol and targeting U.S. lawmakers with historically low approval ratings. If that's the case, that a certain set of rules only applies to the political elite and not the people, then it's safe to say that we do not truly live in a democracy.

[MaDef]

technically it's a Democratic Republic, not a true Democracy.

[Buddahaid]

Biden Erased Decades of Historic Crimes in His Speech to Congress

Biden's claim that the Capitol Riot was the "worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War" is ahistorical garbage.

https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/biden-erased-decades-of-historic


… If President Biden is to suggest that the siege on Capitol Hill on January 6th was "the worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War," then we should demand that our leaders be honest about what does and does not constitute an "attack on our democracy." Attacks on our democracy aren't just reserved for storming the U.S. Capitol and targeting U.S. lawmakers with historically low approval ratings. If that's the case, that a certain set of rules only applies to the political elite and not the people, then it's safe to say that we do not truly live in a democracy.

I find the whole discusting afair on January 6th the worst event since the Kent State shootings. Don't give me any crap about anything patriotically noble about it, it stank.

[Rockstar]

I find the whole discusting afair on January 6th the worst event since the Kent State shootings. Don't give me any crap about anything patriotically noble about it, it stank.

I think you completely missed the point of the article, try reading it next time.

[Catfish]

As the article states you could call the southern states' Jim Crow laws an attack on democracy, but then i guess the governors did not have to perpetrate their ideas by force, on the unwilling population of the time?
And if the majority is for racism, it is the will of the people and all is good as long as the government does not intervene. But then the article's last sentence probably has it :03:

[Rockstar]

I don’t know about everyone else but in recent years I’ve noticed an uptick in divisive politics and media reporting which is stirring up a lot of people and dividing a country. Conveniently followed by warnings of emerging internal threats and calls to increase spending for state intel gathering, surveillance, and law enforcement. Funny how that seems work and what better timing than with a president who doesn’t seem to have a clue what’s going on around him.

[Rockstar]

Kamala Harris Comes Out of Hiding, Gives Interview, Reminds America Why She Shouldn't Give Interviews

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2021/07/11/video-kamala-harris-comes-out-of-hiding-gives-interview-reminds-america-why-she-shouldnt-give-interviews-n1460912

Add rural America to the list of places Kamala Harris hasn’t been, along with Europe and the parts of the border that are actually in crisis.

Harris sat with Soledad O’Brien for a softball interview and couldn’t even handle the slow pitch.

[Rockstar]

The White House and Democrat Party hiding more of the Biden’s shady pay for play deals. Liberal media and voters sure do love these two crooks.

https://youtu.be/OKhTnnIz5JY

[Rockstar]

Hey look more crooks just keep getting voted in again and again and again by liberal Democrat Blue-anon believers.

https://youtu.be/_As2dn-cBXs

[Rockstar]

A critique of liberals by a liberal

https://youtu.be/pK78AlugseY

[Rockstar]

The rise of violence around the nation thanks to liberal Democrats destroying the very fabric of society with their very bad ideas. They screw it up then blame COVID. :roll:

https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/mounting-violence-casts-doubt-over-c77

… when Philadelphia voters go the polls on Tuesday, they’ll have to decide whether Krasner’s radical experiment, which has been emulated around the country in cities such as Chicago, St. Louis, San Francisco and Los Angeles, is worth the rapidly escalating number of dead bodies for which Krasner’s policies are being blamed. Another issue that may linger after the Philadelphia election is whether the “reform” movement that Krasner embodies is itself in need of reform.


The good news is that low-level nonviolent offenders were treated more sanely, and nobody’s getting busted anymore for possession of marijuana. The bad news is that Krasner’s progressive policies have been responsible for routinely letting armed and dangerous criminals out of jail who’ve gone on to commit more crimes.

As one veteran criminal defense lawyer who defends many drug dealers told me, since Krasner became D.A., “All my clients are out on the street. And they’re all armed.”

Turf battles over drugs in Philadelphia are largely responsible for creating the biggest issue in Tuesday’s Democratic primary that may ultimately cost Krasner his job -- a surging murder rate.

It’s a problem across the nation that prosecutors, especially Krasner’s progressive brethren, have been clueless about when it comes to stopping the bloodshed.

When Krasner was elected in 2017, Philadelphia had 315 murders. Last year, the city had 499 murders, the highest total in 30 years, a 58% increase over Krasner’s first three years in office.

Over the first 133 days of 2021, the murder count as of May 13th was already at 191, a 39% increase over last year. At this rate, the city will set an all-time record of more than 693 murders.

Many people across the nation, including Krasner, have blamed COVID-19 for the upsurge in gun violence. Cops on the ground in Philadelphia confirm that during the pandemic, the illegal drug business has thrived, and that every time the government issues a new wave of stimulus checks, there's an uptick in sales of heroin, cocaine and other drugs.

Here are a few prominent examples of criminals that Kasner’s office has loosed on the populace:

Last June, Krasner’s D.A.’s office agreed to let Tarray Herring out of jail for free, for fear that he would catch COVID behind bars. Herring, a registered sex offender with more than a dozen arrests, was arrested again in February after cops found him driving around town in a U-Haul truck with a headless torso in back. Herring confessed that he used an electric saw and a hacksaw to dismember the body of Peter Gerold, a 70-year-old licensed masseuse. Next, Herring deep-fried the body parts, and disposed of them in various dumpsters. He’s been charged with murder and abuse of a corpse.


Last December, two separate bail hearings were held for Josephus Davis, a two-time convicted robber arrested two more times for an alleged carjacking as well as an aggravated assault allegedly committed while still in prison. At the hearings, the bail in Davis’ two new cases was reduced from a combined $300,000 down to $32,000, meaning that Davis’ relatives only had to put up a 10% deposit, or $3,200, to spring him. Just two weeks later, Davis attempted to rob and then shot to death Milan Loncar, 25, a recent Temple University graduate out walking his dog.


In January of 2018, Hassan Elliott pleaded guilty in a negotiated plea to carrying firearms without a license, but walked out of court a free man based on time previously served. While on probation, Elliott was charged three times for probation violations, but three times the D.A.’s office allowed Elliott to stay out of jail. A year later, in January 2019, Elliott was arrested again on a drug charge, but the D.A.’s office withdrew the charge. On March 13, 2020, Elliott shot to death Sgt. James O’Connor, 46, who showed up with a SWAT team to serve an arrest warrant on Elliott for another murder he was accused of. At a press conference where the feds announced they were taking over prosecution of the case, then U.S. Attorney William McSwain stated that Krasner’s “pro-violent defendant policies” were “every bit as responsible” for the murder of Sgt. O’Connor as Hassan Elliott.


In addition to the surging murder rate, Krasner has been heavily criticized for his lax prosecution of gun crimes. A “revolving door” is how Police Commissioner Danielle Outlaw has characterized Krasner’s handling of gun arrests.’’

[Rockstar]

More on koolaid drinking lemmings B-anon conspiracy theory believing liberal Democrats.

https://youtu.be/XaPKvCUcrLM

[Rockstar]

Democrats graduate from just a gullible bunch of kool-aide drinking B-anon russiagate conspiracy theorists. To having their very own official state run media outlet. Joe Stalin would be envious of your accomplishement. Sadly our corporate media and journalists the ones who were supposed to be our government watchdogs have become lapdogs.



https://youtu.be/BYVY7PRH7ro

[Buddahaid]

Are you now just spamming the thread?

[Rockstar]

I found the last video amusing in that it statistically showed Democrats as the predominate war hawk, right wing, Stalinist authoritarians in this country.

[Rockstar]

A little history about the self righteous, holier than thou and self proclaimed party of inclusion.

https://youtu.be/utFz0r5pTUI

[Rockstar]

What is Behind Gen. Mark Milley's Righteous Race Sermon? Look to the New Domestic War on Terror.

The overarching ideology of Pentagon officials is larger military budgets and ongoing permanent war posture. Their new war target, explicitly, is domestic "white rage."

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/what-is-behind-gen-mark-milleys-righteous

For two hundred forty years, American generals have not exactly been defined by adamant public advocacy for left-wing cultural dogma. Yet there appeared to be a great awakening at the Pentagon on Wednesday when Gen. Mark Milley, the highest-ranking military officer in the U.S. as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified at a House hearing. The Chairman vehemently defended the teaching of critical race theory at West Point and, referencing the January 6 Capitol riot, said, “it is important that we train and we understand ... and I want to understand white rage. And I'm white."

In response to conservative criticisms that top military officials should not be weighing in on inflammatory and polarizing cultural debates, liberals were ecstatic to have found such an empathetic, racially aware, and humanitarian general sitting atop the U.S. imperial war machine. Overnight, Gen. Milley became a new hero for U.S. liberalism, a noble military leader which — like former FBI Director Robert Mueller before him — no patriotic, decent American would question let alone mock. Some prominent liberal commentators warned that conservatives are now anti-military and even seek to defund the Pentagon.


It is, of course, possible that the top brass of the U.S. military has suddenly become supremely enlightened on questions of racial strife and racial identity in the U.S., and thus genuinely embraced theories that, until very recently, were the exclusive province of left-wing scholars at elite academic institutions. Given that all U.S. wars in the post-World War II era have been directed at predominantly non-white countries, which — like all wars — required a sustained demonization campaign of those enemy populations, having top Pentagon officials become leading anti-racism warriors would be quite a remarkable transformation indeed. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.

But perhaps there is another explanation other than righteous, earnest transformation as to why the top U.S. General has suddenly expressed such keen interest in studying and exploring "white rage”. Note that Gen. Milley's justification for the military's sudden immersion in the study of modern race theories is the January 6 Capitol riot — which, in the lexicon of the U.S. security state and American liberalism, is called The Insurrection. When explaining why it is so vital to study "white rage,” Gen. Milley argued:

What is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the Constitution of the United States of America? What caused that? I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here, and I do want to analyze it.

The post-WW2 military posture of the U.S. has been endless war. To enable that, there must always be an existential threat, a new and fresh enemy that can scare a large enough portion of the population with sufficient intensity to make them accept, even plead for, greater military spending, surveillance powers, and continuation of permanent war footing. Starring in that war-justifying role of villain have been the Communists, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Russia, and an assortment of other fleeting foreign threats.

According to the Pentagon, the U.S. intelligence community, and President Joe Biden, none of those is the greatest national security threat to the United States any longer. Instead, they all say explicitly and in unison, the gravest menace to American national security is now domestic in nature. Specifically, it is "domestic extremists” in general — and far-right white supremacist groups in particular — that now pose the greatest threat to the safety of the homeland and to the people who reside in it.

In other words, to justify the current domestic War on Terror that has already provoked billions more in military spending and intensified domestic surveillance, the Pentagon must ratify the narrative that those they are fighting in order to defend the homeland are white supremacist domestic terrorists. That will not work if white supremacists are small in number or weak and isolated in their organizing capabilities. To serve the war machine's agenda, they must pose a grave, pervasive and systemic threat.

Viewed through that lens, it makes perfect sense that Gen. Milley is spouting the theories and viewpoints that underlie this war framework and which depicts white supremacy and "white rage” as a foundational threat to the American homeland. A new domestic War on Terror against white supremacists and right-wing extremists is far more justifiable if, as Gen. Milley strongly suggested, it was "white rage” that fueled an armed insurrection that, in the words of President Biden, is the greatest assault on American democracy since the Civil War.

[Reece]

Come on Buddahaid, bring it home!! :yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miiRQVmo-VM

[Rockstar]

The Targets of Biden's War on "Domestic Extremists" May Not Be Who You Think

Illustrating the dangers of the federal government's war on "domestic extremists," animal rights activists are being prosecuted under a capacious definition of "terrorism."

https://outsidevoices.substack.com/p/the-targets-of-bidens-war-on-domestic

Currently, a bill with 196 Democratic co-sponsors (and 3 Republicans) is before Congress, which would begin to build the legal and bureaucratic architecture for an interagency domestic terrorism response unit within the Department of Justice, the FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security. The legislation is explicitly a response to the Capitol Riot and is pointed particularly at “White supremacist” and “neo-Nazi” groups — a particularly unsympathetic and uncontroversial cast of culprits.

But the PATRIOT Act was also purported to target only the most hateful, murderous people in the world — Islamic terrorists — before it metastasized into a massive surveillance state infrastructure that spied on literally every single American with an internet connection. Are we to expect that a domestic analogue to the PATRIOT Act will draw the line at violent sociopathic racists? The intelligence community demonstrably does not: a recently declassified report lists animal rights and environmental activists, abortion activists on both the pro-life and the pro-choice sides, anarchists, and anti-capitalists as potential domestic terrorist threats.

If we’ve learned anything from the last few years, it’s that corporations are all too eager to co-opt the progressive rhetoric du jour, whether to sell sneakers or to protect themselves against workplace discrimination lawsuits. And the FBI has been more than willing to investigate activists engaged in non-violent activities as terrorists under the 2006 Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act. A new domestic federal law enforcement bureaucracy dedicated to surveilling and investigating anyone the government claims to suspect is a “terrorist” would be a bonanza to industries facing concerted activist pressure, whether animal agriculture or fossil fuels, or a company in any industry facing a unionization drive. What possible reason is there to believe that corporations won’t lobby the Biden administration and future administrations to use their new powers to ensnare activists who campaign against them, all in the name of ridding the country of violent political extremists and “insurrectionists”?

The answer is that there is no reason to believe it, and every reason to believe the hunt for “domestic terrorists” could eventually be turned against anyone with the will and the means to effectively confront those who hold concentrated political and corporate power — including through strictly non-violent means. A demonstrated willingness to use violence has never been a requisite for law enforcement agencies to brand those they wish to malign as “terrorists”, as DxE activists know all too well. All that’s required is their willingness to use the label.

[Rockstar]

More conservative fear mongering

https://youtu.be/IR6Llih12v4

[Rockstar]

It’s good to be Speaker


Nancy and Paul Pelosi Making Millions in Stock Trades in Companies She Actively Regulates

The Speaker, already one of the richest members in Congress, has become far richer through investment maneuvers in Big Tech, as she privately chats with their CEOs.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/nancy-and-paul-pelosi-making-millions


Beyond that, Google — one of the companies in which the Pelosis’ stock trades have made millions — is one of the top five donors to the House Speaker. The wealthy couple buys and sells in Google stock, making millions. She works on bills that directly affect the future trajectory of Google. And they lavish her campaign coffers with cash, a key source of her entrenched power.

Multiple times over the last several years, serious questions have been raised about stock positions taken by the Pelosis that turned out to be immensely profitable under suspicious circumstances. Perhaps the most disturbing was a report from Bloomberg News last Wednesday and another from days earlier by Fox Business that documented how Pelosi's husband purchased highly risky options in Google, Apple and other tech companies back in February, 2020, right before the market began plunging due to the COVID epidemic and right before the House, led by his wife, was set to introduce new legislation to regulate those same tech companies.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/hniN9I6IA7k

[Rockstar]

Liberal media is destroying this country.

https://youtu.be/7kyqSDTKVY0

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/KRzd7SknVrQ

[Buddahaid]

First Capitol rioter gets eight month felony sentence setting the baseline for those who just entered the building to take selfies. I bet Tucker is all butt hurt about it.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/dlw5lNIQN1c

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/Slrs29r5KW8

[Buddahaid]

Queen of the Morons get another suspension.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57897401

[Rockstar]

The first tweet, posted Sunday night, responded to a post from scandal-scarred surgeon Dr. David Samadi about coronavirus hospitalizations in the United Kingdom.

“In the United Kingdom, 47% of new COVID-19 cases are vaccinated people,” Samadi tweeted, to which Greene responded: “This is why no entity should force NON-FDA approved vaccines or masks. Instead help people protect their health by defeating obesity, which will protect them from covid [sic] complications & death, and many other health problems. We should invest in health, not human experimentation.”

The second tweet, posted Monday morning, read: “The controversial #COVID19 vaccines should not be forced on our military for a virus that is not dangerous for non-obese people and those under 65.

“With 6,000 vax related deaths and many concerning side effects reported, the vax should be a choice not a mandate for everyone,” Greene added.


What’s misleading? Let me guess you haven’t even bothered reading what she wrote yet. I happen to agree with her, vaccines should NOT be forced on anyone in this country. And we should invest more in the general overall health of this nation. Vaccines is just putting a bandaid on the problem. How about we force lazy fat people to get up off their lazy arses and walk more, it will help reduce the load on our health care system.

[3catcircus]

What’s misleading? Bet you did even bother reading what she wrote.

Don't you get it?!?! Anything that questions the party line, no matter how truthful, is misleading. C'mon, man...

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/U3VW2dhS__M

[Rockstar]

Oh the Texas Democrats cup of hypocrisy overfloweth. (Twitter, YouTube, liberal media approved)

https://youtu.be/TuzSwRzkswY

[Rockstar]

Don't you get it?!?! Anything that questions the party line, no matter how truthful, is misleading. C'mon, man...

These same Democrats who babbled on for four years about Fasicism and censorship when there was none to be found now gleefully support it.

[Buddahaid]

What’s misleading? Let me guess you haven’t even bothered reading what she wrote yet. I happen to agree with her, vaccines should NOT be forced on anyone in this country. And we should invest more in the general overall health of this nation. Vaccines is just putting a bandaid on the problem. How about we force lazy fat people to get up off their lazy arses and walk more, it will help reduce the load on our health care system.

Don't you get it? Why are people forced to take hepatitis vaccines to travel, get tetinus shots to work in disaster areas, etc.? I don't care if you personaly want to take the risk but the reason isn't for your health, it's for the health of others you come in contact with. It called promoting the general welfare and nobody is being forced to get a Covid shot.

[August]

Queen of the Morons get another suspension.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57897401




Which state actor told them to do it?

[3catcircus]

Don't you get it? Why are people forced to take hepatitis vaccines to travel, get tetinus shots to work in disaster areas, etc.? I don't care if you personaly want to take the risk but the reason isn't for your health, it's for the health of others you come in contact with. It called promoting the general welfare and nobody is being forced to get a Covid shot.

And how many of those vaccines result in you still getting infected? Better yet, how about flu, measles, mumps, chickenpox vaccines? Or more importantly, how many of those who get those vaccines are also still forced to mask and quarantine and lock down?

Either the covid vaccines work like every other vaccine or they're not vaccines at all. If we're to believe that they are vaccines, then we shouldn't have "experts" claiming that quarantines and masks and lock downs are still required.

It's *all* horse****.

It's going to come to a point where normal people take matters into their own hands and remove these "experts" from positions of authority by any means necessary.

[Onkel Neal]

Don't you get it? Why are people forced to take hepatitis vaccines to travel, get tetinus shots to work in disaster areas, etc.? I don't care if you personaly want to take the risk but the reason isn't for your health, it's for the health of others you come in contact with. It called promoting the general welfare and nobody is being forced to get a Covid shot.


Yeah, that's a valid point. There are always going to be some rules and regulations to ensure an orderly society. We may disagree about exactly what these rules are, but overall it should not be a shock that we may have to be vaccinated in order to participate in certain activities.

I'm totally OK with not requiring people to be vaccinated. 1.) people who are unvaccinated only put themselves at serious risk, so that's fine. and 2.) Just in case it turns out that the vaccination causes brain aneurysms or something in every vaccinated person 3 years from now, we still have unvaccinated people to repopulate the Earth. :haha:

[Rockstar]

Don't you get it? Why are people forced to take hepatitis vaccines to travel, get tetinus shots to work in disaster areas, etc.? I don't care if you personaly want to take the risk but the reason isn't for your health, it's for the health of others you come in contact with. It called promoting the general welfare and nobody is being forced to get a Covid shot.

Don’t I get it, are you kidding me? They are not ‘forced’ to do anything. They know full well what the job requirements are. I travelled abroad by choice and knew full well what was required of me to do so. I was also in the military if they ordered me to get the jab I would get the jab. The worst thing any member of the U.S. armed forces can do is start thinking themselves as some kind crusader for liberty or constitutional lawyer. Those people disrupt good order and discipline. But even in the military they can’t force you to do anything, they can only make you wish you had.

I work with someone who refuses to get vaccinated, I’m fine with that. It’s his choice. Not the government, not corporations or you, ITS THEIR CHOICE. Just as it’s was mine to get the first jab but not the second. Just as it was mine to wear a mask only to get infected anyway. Just as it is for those Democrat political leaders who publically demand of us. But then privately party on at the governor’s mansion, visit the hairdresser or fly to DC and spread the virus. Pretty hard for anyone to take their concerns for my safety seriously.

You think the economy, quality of life and death rate is bad now, start threatening people’s livelihoods to satisfy political agendas. You might get them to get vaccinated if you threaten to fire them. On the other hand you might cause business to collapse even further when people walk off the job. It’s your choice.

[Buddahaid]

And how many of those vaccines result in you still getting infected? Better yet, how about flu, measles, mumps, chickenpox vaccines? Or more importantly, how many of those who get those vaccines are also still forced to mask and quarantine and lock down?

Either the covid vaccines work like every other vaccine or they're not vaccines at all. If we're to believe that they are vaccines, then we shouldn't have "experts" claiming that quarantines and masks and lock downs are still required.

It's *all* horse****.

It's going to come to a point where normal people take matters into their own hands and remove these "experts" from positions of authority by any means necessary.

There you go. Preaching revolution because the system of government doesn't suit you at present. Very patriotic.

[Catfish]

Don’t I get it, are you kidding me? They are not ‘forced’ to do anything. They know full well what the job requirements are. [...].
Yep, Tucker Carlson has called the idea of vaccine passports the medical equivalent of "Jim Crow" laws. But then Fox has quietly implemented its own version of a vaccine passport while its top personalities attack them. Cognitive dissonance.

[Rockstar]

Yep, Tucker Carlson has called the idea of vaccine passports the medical equivalent of "Jim Crow" laws. But then Fox has quietly implemented its own version of a vaccine passport while its top personalities attack them. Cognitive dissonance.

What’s your point?

What I was talking about and against is this idea we should FORCE people to get vaccinated. And the censorship of thoughts and opinions. Some of what that woman said I can agree with especially the part of investing in the general over health of the public and convincing lazy obese people to take better care of themselves. As several here have found and pointed out better health is the best defense against sickness. But that was considered misleading by the blue ministry of truth so she was censored.

Just an FYI, I don’t have cable so I don’t watch Tucker Carlson. What little I know of him is from you and the one Jimmy Dore vid. As for vaccine records I’m old enough to know it’s nothing new and still have mine that I keep with my passport. Big whoop.

[Buddahaid]

I agree that big social media is dancing close to first amendment violation but I don't think many would complain about banning pedophile or KKK groups. Nobody is ever going to see eye to eye on the issue.

[Rockstar]

Don’t feel bad our government isn’t the only one doing it for political purposes.

Moscow) – Russian authorities are escalating pressure on social media companies, forcing them to censor online content deemed illegal by the government, Human Rights Watch said today. Social media platforms have received warnings and face fines and potential blocking for failure to comply with Russia’s rapidly growing oppressive internet legislation.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/05/russia-social-media-pressured-censor-posts

[3catcircus]

There you go. Preaching revolution because the system of government doesn't suit you at present. Very patriotic.

Nope. Just recognition that most people (who are generally those who just want to be left alone) have reached a point of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" when confronted with (primarily) local governments that mandate health theater unless you are a leftist anarchist hell-bent on vandalism and violence. These are the same people running these governments that continue to interject themselves into every aspect of people's lives, whether it's an attempt to violate the 2A, stifling of 1A-protected speech they don't like, trying to impose racial divisiveness, or any other nosey-nelly interjections into peoples' lives.

It's no longer enough for these creatures for you to be tolerant of whatever degenerate agenda they have; now they demand you actively support it. The *only* way they will cease is to actively and often use whatever level of a "smack in the mouth" their bad behavior calls for.

When you see cops being assaulted while the police commissioner or mayor orders them to not arrest antifa criminals. When you see lawless animal savages looting stores or assaulting/killing innocents with no repercussions. When you see people shot in the dozens per night in decrepit Democrat-run lawless sh!thole cities because of a refusal to fund police departments. When you see "experts" change their advice to match whichever way the Democrat Party political winds blow. When you see Republicans refuse to actively counter leftist agendas. When you see people who just won't mind their own f&$!ing business.

Yeah, we're at that point.

[mapuc]

So it's obvious you don't like the man in the Oval office. It truly show the difference between an American(some of them) and our left wing supporters.

They see Biden as Godsend-They even use American friends as support for this. Meaning their American friends see Biden as Godsend.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

These same Democrats who babbled on for four years about Fasicism and censorship when there was none to be found now gleefully support it.

He is too old but many of us prefered that to the daily Twitter rants from the the previous megalomaniac narcissist.

[3catcircus]

He is too old but many of us prefered that to the daily Twitter rants from the the previous megalomaniac narcissist.

You're in the minority.

Most Americans would have preferred to continue to have low inflation rates, reasonable gasoline prices, and fear of what Trump might do from Iran, China, N. Korea, even if it meant more mean tweets.

It cost me $38 to fill my gas tank when Trump was in office. Now it costs me $52 for the same amount.

Rogue nations feared Trump's unpredictability, which is why Kim Jong-Un actually came to a negotiating table at all. Despite some short-term pain in the pocketbooks of industrial investors, the US was winning it's trade war with the CHICOMs. We had no noise from Iran.

Now, puddin' head Biden isn't even acknowledged by other world leaders, let alone humored.

[Rockstar]

Twitter rants? Like most everything on social media they were stupid and childish.

But I mentioned early on the best way to defeat a narcissist is to ignore them. But people kept feeding it. I mentioned early on the best way to overcome the nonsense was to be the adult. But instead everyone’s behavior stooped just as low. I also mentioned early on there were much more serious issues to concern ourselves with than the latest Trump tweet. But people just couldn’t stay away from it.

There was the expansion of China, our own troubled economy, corporate infiltration of government, endless wars, stagnate wages, Government expansion of its domestic powers. But all the media could feed the public were the latest Twitter feed and the people loved it, they craved it, they couldn’t stay away from it.

Now here we are, in addition to the above. Banks are hoarding cash, cancelling personal lines of credit, lumber short squeeze is over and prices dropping like a rock and we’re possibly on the verge of a global collapse of the economy, again. Which will equate to even more job losses than we have already.

If this downturn is as big as some say it could be. It might explain why Putin secured his place as leader for years to come, Xi made himself dictator for life and our own governments expansion of powers over a sudden concern over domestic terrorism. Then again I might just be fear mongering :D

[Catfish]

What’s your point?
What I was talking about and against is this idea we should FORCE people to get vaccinated. And the censorship of thoughts and opinions.
[...]
As several here have found and pointed out better health is the best defense against sickness. But that was considered misleading by the blue ministry of truth so she was censored.
It is just that i cannot hear this bull anymore.

"Give Trump credit for the vacine rollout, operation warp speed"
"Why won't you take the vaccine then?"
"Because the vaccine isn't safe"
"So give Trump credit for rolling out an unsafe vaccine?"
:hmmm:

So you have ben vaccinated, but did not want to, but you had since you wanted to keep your job? Or what?
You accept other vaccinations but not this, because .. why exactly?
You have been "forced", because the company you work in prefers vaccinated people instead of those most probably spreading the virus? Ok, don't get vaccinated and lose your job, die, whatever, your decision.

[3catcircus]

Twitter rants? Like most everything on social media they were stupid and childish.

But I mentioned early on the best way to stop a narcissist is to ignore them. But people kept feeding it. I mentioned early on the best way to overcome the nonsense was to be the adult. But instead everyone’s behavior stooped just as low. I also mentioned early on there were much more serious issues to concern ourselves with than the latest Trump tweet. But people just couldn’t stay away from it.

There was the expansion of China, our own troubled economy, corporate infiltration of government, endless wars, stagnate wages, Government expansion of its domestic powers. But all the media could feed the public were the latest Twitter feed and the people loved it, they craved it, they couldn’t stay away from it.

Now here we are, in addition to the above. Banks are hoarding cash, cancelling personal lines of credit, lumber short squeeze is over and prices dropping like a rock and we’re possibly on the verge of a global collapse of the economy, again. Which will equate to even more job losses than we have already.

And what’s the latest on social media?

But the tweets... They're sooo mean...

Just shows the overall level of Idiocracy that *anyone* takes *anything* posted on social media seriously.

Imagine what would happen if all of these corporate types *ignored* any leftist activist demands... The answer? *Nothing*. Because you can't take seriously someone prancing around on a TikTok complaining about some imagined slight while wearing some bizarre outfit and face paint.

The first time someone bleated "micro-aggression" they should have received a smack in the mouth with full aggression and been told to shut up.

[3catcircus]

It is just that i cannot hear this bull anymore.

"Give Trump credit for the vacine rollout, operation warp speed"
"Why won't you take the vaccine then?"
"Because the vaccine isn't safe"
"So give Trump credit for rolling out an unsafe vaccine?"
:hmmm:

So you have ben vaccinated, but did not want to, but you had since you wanted to keep your job? Or what?
You accept other vaccinations but not this, because .. why exactly?
You have been "forced", because the company you work in prefers vaccinated people instead of those most probably spreading the virus? Ok, don't get vaccinated and lose your job, die, whatever, your decision.

Because other vaccines have actually been through a rigorous approval process. The last time we didn't, we had babies born with flippers instead of arms and legs due to thalidomide and people dropping dead from heart attacks from the '76 swine flu vaccine...

[mapuc]

Here in Denmark and Sweden they use to make a survey around 6 or 12 month after a new government has taken control.

Here they ask if they are satisfied with their votes(if they had voted on this government)

And other questions.

Now I wonder if some company have made the same survey in USA asking the American voters if they are satisfied with the new President and if they did the right thing when they voted.

Markus

[Rockstar]

It is just that i cannot hear this bull anymore.

"Give Trump credit for the vacine rollout, operation warp speed"
"Why won't you take the vaccine then?"
"Because the vaccine isn't safe"
"So give Trump credit for rolling out an unsafe vaccine?"
:hmmm:

So you have ben vaccinated, but did not want to, but you had since you wanted to keep your job? Or what?
You accept other vaccinations but not this, because .. why exactly?
You have been "forced", because the company you work in prefers vaccinated people instead of those most probably spreading the virus? Ok, don't get vaccinated and lose your job, die, whatever, your decision.

As for your obsession with Trump, it’s still an experimental vaccine doesn’t matter who rolls it out. One need only look at the headlines and you’ll find both party’s are eager to take the credit. Who gets it is a stupid and useless arguement for party fanboys and social media addicts with no life.

About your questions. In my lifetime I have stood in every line and have probably been injected with every conceivable vaccine known to mankind. Not once had I ever refused or had an adverse reaction to any of them.

Enter COVID: I followed CDC guidelines even went so far as to quit my job. Still I wore a mask because I thought it was a reasonable request. I think I was infected in early 2020 but this was before testing was available I just followed CDC guidelines, stayed home and recuperated. Then I was most certainly infected late 2020. Early 2021 I got the first jab of Moderna because I thought it was the right thing to do. However because of an adverse reaction I choose not to continue (mild tunnel vision, flushed, dizziness, anxiety).

I recently went back to work sans mask and second jab. I work with someone who refuses to vaccinate. I’m fine with his decision, it’s his choice, not mine, it’s not yours, the government or the corporate office.

[Rockstar]

Oh we were so tired of the tweets. Yet could never get enough of q-anon style conspiracy theories.

https://youtu.be/Tiyz4wfHF9Q

[Buddahaid]

You're in the minority.



The election says otherwise. Yeah, yeah, massive voter fraud blah, blah blah...

First dillermand sentenced for the capitol riot gets eight months and will have his guns taken away with a nice felony conviction on his record. He can keep his bible.
:har:

[vienna]

Well, a Barrack was indicted by a Federal Grand Jury, arrested and charged today, but it wasn't the Barrack the Trumpettes have been wet-dreaming about...


Trump adviser Tom Barrack arrested on foreign-agent charges --

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/20/tom-barrack-arrested-foreign-agent-charges-500333


As time goes on, I suspect more of the Trump Turd Reich minions will be facing indictments or direct charges; I also suspect not a few of them, faced with serious Federal prison time, will be of a mind to implicate or divulge the Loser-In-Chief (LIC) in the criminal actions for which they are being charged; some have asked why doesn't the DOJ or the state AGs/DAs just go ahead and charge the LIC already and why are they picking off subordinates instead; actually, its a good strategy to go after the low-hanging targets first; not only do you get a really good shot at getting viable prosecutions and convictions, when the time comes to haul in LIC, there will be a solid history of sworn testimony and evidence surrounding the crimes, enough to make it extremely difficult for LIC to have much wriggle room when his own indictment comes down; its awfully hard to make the claim you weren't involved or knew nothing about the crimes when prosecutors have the court records, testimony, and evidence provided by the others involved in the crimes, particularly when the others are so close to your own inner circle...


Tick, tock, Donny, Tick Tock...



<O>

[Rockstar]

Finally someone talking about something that matters to most of the nation. Think it’s bad now watch what happened if that 3.5 trillion spending bill is approved.

https://youtu.be/NnY0nFspzh0

[MaDef]

WOW... Trump really did a number on you kids, He's been out of office for 8 months. His name comes up and you jokers go off the deep end. :rolleyes:

[Buddahaid]

Yes funny isn't it that the Republican party is still licking his boots everyday.

[Onkel Neal]

Finally someone talking about something that matters to most of the nation. Think it’s bad now watch what happened if that 3.5 trillion spending bill is approved.



100% right, the Democrats will put us in an inflationary spiral like Venezuela. But I can't say the Republicans are much better.

[vienna]

A good argument for ditching the whole "blind party loyalty" fixation and just going independent and voting on your own individual needs and/or views rather than slavishly marching in lockstep; thinking and deciding on your own is far more rewarding than stupidly obeying...




<O>

[3catcircus]

A good argument for ditching the whole "blind party loyalty" fixation and just going independent and voting on your own individual needs and/or views rather than slavishly marching in lockstep; thinking and deciding on your own is far more rewarding than stupidly obeying...




<O>

This. So this. I'd prefer that we actually outlaw political parties altogether (why do we allow what are, in essence, private clubs, to dictate who can run for public office??!?)

No political parties. No PACs. No corporate donations. No advertisements whatsoever. You want my vote? Come talk to me in person.

[vienna]

By far, one of the most disheartening aspects of elections in recent decades in the the US is the parties' demand for wholesale acceptance by their members of specified candidates and/or issues; California used to exclude Independent voters from most of the primary election processes at the behest of the two major parties; if you were an Independent, you could not vote for your preference if the choice were from either major party; this has changed in recent years, with open primaries for almost all positions now being the norm; at one time, in order to be able to have at least some voice in the choosing of candidates, I had to register with one of the major parties; since the DEMs pretty much run CA, I opted to register for their party, although I still exercised my own free will and voted many times against the party line on issues and voted for persons outside of the party...

Oh, and when I say the DEMs pretty much run CA, the voter registration stats for the state tell the story; as of Feb 2021, the state voter registrations breakdown as 46.2% DEM, 24.1% GOP, 6.0% other parties; the encouraging sign is 23.7% have registered as fully Independent...

In the debate over the continuing GOP efforts to enact laws to suppress voting by those they deem as not fit to vote, there was one person who made a very keen observation about the whole situation; I don't remember the persons name, but the comments he made stuck with me; he said it is a sad state of affairs when a political part can declare, without cause or evidence, an election was illegal, just because they lost, and, in America, it is the right of the voters to choose the politicians to represent them, not for the politicians to choose who will vote for them...


<O>

[Rockstar]

The Democrats gods of science Fauci squirms under questioning. More to come

Remember when Trump said it started at the lab and Democrats, liberals, laughed and mocked him.

Remember when Fauci contrary to Trump, stated the virus was a natural transmission and didn’t start at the lab and democrats viewed him as the most science guy in the world and only holder of the truth? Now we find out he was the one funding gain of function research in Wuhan and covering for his lab cronies at EcoHealth.

Anyone paying attention now and realize the Fauci recently admitted it may have started in a lab.

Wouldn’t that be a shocker if the boot licking Democrats found that the man they placed on the pedestal of truth & science may have contributed to the deaths of over 4 million people world wide?

Tic tock tic tock

https://youtu.be/sRlqnTkt59U

[vienna]

What I'm really waiting for is to see what the grandstanding Sen. Paul gets out of his 'criminal referral' gimmick; it could be a 'careful what you wish for" moment; if it goes forward, expect to see a slew of criminal referrals against all those Turd Reich minions and Trumpettes who lied their asses off in front of Congress over the past few years; this would include, of course, those who willfully lied about the Covid pandemic failed response by the previous administration in order to appease and cover the fat ass on T****...

As for Faucci, he's not really in a need to worry; what Sen. Paul did was an echo of the whole "the election was stolen!!" farce; in order for Paul's 'referral' to get anywhere, he would have to decisively prove Faucci knowingly and willfully lied in his statements to Congress, which means Paul would have to definitively and decisively prove:


a) The Covid virus was deliberately leaked for the Wuhan Lab;

b) The CDC deliberately funded the specific activities at Wuhan for that specific purpose;

c) Faucci had a direct and causal control over those Wuhan activities;

d) Faucci was fully aware of the alleged activities at Wuhan and failed to either exercise control or alert the appropriate authorities;

e) There is absolute, beyond a shadow of a doubt, proof, evidence or testimony to support all of the above as criminal actions;


I really don't think Faucci is at all worried or even gives Paul any thought at all...

As for Sen. Paul, well, he's just butt hurt that Faucci publicly tore him a new one and shoved it in Paul's face; that, and how he "let down the side" of his GOP cronies by blowing, big time, a chance to further deflect from what is heavily weighing on their parties mind: how will they explain away the failures of the Turd Reich vis-a-vis the Pandemic, the parties support for those failures, the continuing failures by the GOP to adequately address continuing Pandemic issues, etc., when the Mid-Term Elections come around next year; the GOP is scrambling and clutching at straws to avoid being held to account for their weak-kneed ass-kissing of the Great MAGAt Rump while US citizens (aka voters) were left without leadership to suffer the effects, too often lethal and crippling, of Covid...

Paul's "criminal referral"? Just a weak pathetic, desperate effort to save face, deflect from his own shortcomings, and to mitigate further fallout from his own party; keep this in mind: while anyone, such as Faucci, can be indicted/charged with lying to Congress in a hearing, the Congress members themselves are immune from prosecution, no matter the nature or extent of any lies they may tell; Paul has a free "Get Out of Jail" card, Faucci dose not...




<O>

[MaDef]

What I'm really waiting for is to see what the grandstanding Sen. Paul gets out of his 'criminal referral' gimmick; it could be a 'careful what you wish for" moment; if it goes forward, expect to see a slew of criminal referrals against all those Turd Reich minions and Trumpettes who lied their asses off in front of Congress over the past few years; this would include, of course, those who willfully lied about the Covid pandemic failed response by the previous administration in order to appease and cover the fat ass on T****...

As for Faucci, he's not really in a need to worry; what Sen. Paul did was an echo of the whole "the election was stolen!!" farce; in order for Paul's 'referral' to get anywhere, he would have to decisively prove Faucci knowingly and willfully lied in his statements to Congress, which means Paul would have to definitively and decisively prove:


a) The Covid virus was deliberately leaked for the Wuhan Lab;

b) The CDC deliberately funded the specific activities at Wuhan for that specific purpose;

c) Faucci had a direct and causal control over those Wuhan activities;

d) Faucci was fully aware of the alleged activities at Wuhan and failed to either exercise control or alert the appropriate authorities;

e) There is absolute, beyond a shadow of a doubt, proof, evidence or testimony to support all of the above as criminal actions;


I really don't think Faucci is at all worried or even gives Paul any thought at all...

As for Sen. Paul, well, he's just butt hurt that Faucci publicly tore him a new one and shoved it in Paul's face; that, and how he "let down the side" of his GOP cronies by blowing, big time, a chance to further deflect from what is heavily weighing on their parties mind: how will they explain away the failures of the Turd Reich vis-a-vis the Pandemic, the parties support for those failures, the continuing failures by the GOP to adequately address continuing Pandemic issues, etc., when the Mid-Term Elections come around next year; the GOP is scrambling and clutching at straws to avoid being held to account for their weak-kneed ass-kissing of the Great MAGAt Rump while US citizens (aka voters) were left without leadership to suffer the effects, too often lethal and crippling, of Covid...

Paul's "criminal referral"? Just a weak pathetic, desperate effort to save face, deflect from his own shortcomings, and to mitigate further fallout from his own party; keep this in mind: while anyone, such as Faucci, can be indicted/charged with lying to Congress in a hearing, the Congress members themselves are immune from prosecution, no matter the nature or extent of any lies they may tell; Paul has a free "Get Out of Jail" card, Faucci dose not...
<O>
Does nobody think for themselves anymore? or do they just regurgitate what they read/hear on the internet?

[mapuc]

To stay in this Wuhan virus discussion.

Let us for the sake of peace say/believe it came from a market in China.

As Skybird wrote many month ago in our Wuhan thread It would mean war.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Tic tock tic tock Fauci tic tock tic tock Peter Daszak

https://youtu.be/av4bfYSH1e0

https://youtu.be/_Rt_dcAh8JI

[Rockstar]

To stay in this Wuhan virus discussion.

Let us for the sake of peace say/believe it came from a market in China.

As Skybird wrote many month ago in our Wuhan thread It would mean war.

Markus

War? Not unless it’s discovered Fauci is caught lying to Congress and it is found he was funding his pal Peter Daszak’s EcoHealth gain of function research that escaped from Wuhan Lab.

[Rockstar]

As for Faucci, he's not really in a need to worry;


<O>

Idk, I watched the video. Fauci seemed worried as he looked wide eyed around the room hoping to find support and you know what I heard? Absolutely nothing, nobody spoke up for him. Just Rand Paul staring back at him, like I said in the other thread, if looks could kill Fauci would have keeled over then and there.

[3catcircus]

War? Not unless it’s discovered Fauci is caught lying to Congress and it is found he was funding his pal Peter Daszak’s EcoHealth gain of function research that escaped from Wuhan Lab.

You mean like those of us with any critical thinking skills pondered the possibility of *last year*?

*Anyone* who had ever worked with the USG knows this is how these things happen. Plausible deniability and Clintonesque deny deny deny and "what is the definition of 'is'?" stall tactics.

Fauci is a weaselly little turd who should end up making big rocks into little rocks, in a just world.

[Catfish]

If you have any trust in Ron Paul after what he said you must be out of your mind. Let him make a "criminal referral" against Fauci, i'll grab my popcorn. If i were Fauci i'd instantly file for injunctive relief and let Rand Paul run around like a headless chicken. The way he tried to disturb all of Fauci's stements by babbling rubbish here was childish and primitive.
I think it's actually positive that Fauci for once replied in the only way those imbeciles understand.

[mapuc]

War? Not unless it’s discovered Fauci is caught lying to Congress and it is found he was funding his pal Peter Daszak’s EcoHealth gain of function research that escaped from Wuhan Lab.

Where did this Fauci thing come from ? I know he was the leading Corona doctor under the former President. And now he is accused-That's how I read it.

Markus

[Catfish]

He DARED to criticise the PRESIDENT of the time, no this is wrong: he just said the truth which made the president and his blithering look dumb, and they never forgave him. So full-out attack against his credibility. Strange no one questioned the accuser's.
But if types like Taylor Greene are being trusted more than experienced scientists you do not need to have any illusions about thinking, credibility or truth.

[Rockstar]

He DARED to criticise the PRESIDENT of the time, no this is wrong: he just said the truth which made the president and his blithering look dumb, and they never forgave him. So full-out attack against his credibility. Strange no one questioned the accuser's.
But if types like Taylor Greene are being trusted more than experienced scientists you do not need to have any illusions about thinking, credibility or truth.

Actually the president was closer to telling the truth when he said the virus escaped from The Wuhan lab. As I suggested early on Trump’s ego and desire to always be the center of attention demanded he drop hints or share whatever he heard in his morning brief, even if he shouldn’t have he did, he couldn’t help it.

Of course when Fauci spoke something contrary or as you say ‘dared criticize’ Trump by saying it was not a lab leak but rather a natural transmission. the Democrat liberal boot lickers were estatic and liberal media cheered there new found hero on. Facts be damned they loved their new god of science who dared.

However in hindsight by outright denying it came from the lab it appears he may have been trying to divert attention away from Wuhan Lab leak because Fauci was funding EcoHealth’s gain of function experiments at that lab. The liberals hero and god of science may have actually contributed to the deaths of over 4 million people.

Tic tock tic toc low hanging fruit inner circles and all that

[mapuc]

Thou more I read thou more I come think of a great author

John le Carré

If it wasn't written by you in our US politic thread I would think you was describing a book by John le Carré.

Markus

[Rockstar]

“China's Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), located just miles from the market where the first COVID-19 outbreak was detected, previously received funding from Fauci's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases via the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance.

The EcoHealth grant partially funded research at WIV that involved analyzing bat specimens collected from caves in China to study their potential for infecting humans. EcoHealth's work in China started in the aftermath of the 2002–2004 SARS epidemic, which also likely originated from bats.

Shi Zhengli, a lead researcher at WIV, was known from public documents to be conducting controversial gain-of-function experiments, which involve genetically modifying viruses to make them more infectious in an effort to better understand them, according to the Washington Post.

Shi has said that the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus that caused the pandemic does not match bat viruses that the lab had earlier sampled from caves in China. However, the Chinese government's lack of transparency about the early days of the outbreak has raised questions that weren't fully answered by a WHO-led investigation earlier this year.”

Originally Fauci contradicted the president’s thinking of the lab leak hypothesis and the liberals loved him for it. Why? Fauci now says it’s possible it was a lab leak. Why? When grilled by Senator Rand Paul the only defense the Democrat boot lickers hero had was to deflect, dodge and straw man arguments while desperately looking around for someone to come to his rescue. But with 4 million dead, nobody lifted a hand and I seriously doubt now anyone will touch him with a ten foot barge pole.

Tic toc tic toc, inner circles, low hanging fruit and all that.

[Buddahaid]

Even a broken watch is right twice a day. I will still believe peer reviewed science over political grandstanding.

[mapuc]

Even a broken watch is right twice a day. I will still believe peer reviewed science over political grandstanding.

Read somewhere that WHO was in a way owned by the Chinese.

Can we trust WHO then if this is correct and others who may say the same as WHO are they independent or are they just following WHO ?

What's true here I can't say.

Markus

[Reece]

Switzerland.

[Catfish]

Can we please finally put an end to all this bull and conspiracy sh!t?


I know it all is so boring without conpiracies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EcoHealth_Alliance


The LA Times (not only) writes:

"The new speculation about the origins of COVID-19 has caused some stock-taking by the press, which is accused of ridiculing the lab-leak theory in all its manifestations during 2020 merely because it was promoted by President Trump.

That’s treated as another strike against the “liberal media” supposedly marching in lock-step to disdain conservatives. The mainstream press, wrote Jonathan Chait of New York Magazine, “took Donald Trump’s bait, answering the former president’s dissembling with false certainty of their own.”

What’s missing from all this reexamination and soul-searching is a fundamental fact: There is no evidence — not a smidgen — for the claim that COVID-19 originated in a laboratory in China or anywhere else, or that the China lab ever had the virus in its inventory. There’s even less for the wildest version of the claim, which is that the virus was deliberately engineered. There never has been, and there isn’t now.

No one disputes that a lab leak is possible. Viruses have escaped from laboratories in the past, on occasion leading to human infection. But “zoonotic” transfers — that is, from animals to humans — are a much more common and well-documented pathway."

www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-06-03/lab-leak-covid-origin (http://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-06-03/lab-leak-covid-origin)

@Rockstar
referring to your insinuated claim of me having an obsession with Trump: If he stopped talking bull i would maybe give more than a rat's anus about his or his minions' claims, but surely not as things were and are.

[Skybird]

What’s missing from all this reexamination and soul-searching is a fundamental fact: There is no evidence — not a smidgen — for the claim that COVID-19 originated in a laboratory in China or anywhere else, or that the China lab ever had the virus in its inventory. There’s even less for the wildest version of the claim, which is that the virus was deliberately engineered. There never has been, and there isn’t now.



I do not take sides in this discussion on Wuhan, becasue I know that I do not know for sure. I only point out, Catfish, that if China had invested efforts to hide its own originatorship, then it would be no wonder that there is no evidence as the quote above implies.

Fact is that the Chinese have lied a whole awesome lot, time and again. Fact is that they have hinderd the WHO team trying to research at location, and delayed their travels to China and then their reach into wanted places. Fact is that certain raw data they had been asked for had not been given, or not given before being heavily filtered by Chinese authorities. The completeness of these edited data sheets is seriously in doubt, too.

Then to just claim: "there is no evidence, so the suspicion is not true" - that is a bit thin.

China, that is the party, and the party if infallible, is always right, cannot err, always is in control, always can master things, always is the great protector from any harm, the giver of anythign good, the protector of the peoole, the shield of the Xi empire. They will never admit that it were them if it would be the case that indeed it were them. And they will move all heavens and all Earth to hide it.

In other words: the Chinese claims are worth nothing.

This does not prove their guilt nor their innocence. But it says that that quoted part simply is naive.


P.S. And think of this. Any state allowing to be held responsible for the pandemic, considering the costs in lives but also in economic development, financial losses, global disruptions, could make its testimony and then switch off the lights. There would be calls for compensations and reparations, punishement and retaliations, on a scale absolutely unimaginable. This could also easily lead to a third world war. Thats also a reason why China will always lie if they were responsible, and even lie if the evidence would be given in truckloads and then emptied right into and onto their faces they think are so precious to keep.

[Catfish]

^ Again, evidence?
I have no sympathy with the People's republic Xi Jinpings dictatorship of China, and their stand. But as far as i read in the Sc. American the virus may not even have originated in China but "somewhere else in South Asia". It seems to have spread from pangolins to bats, to humans. The risk of similar coronavirus outbreaks in the future remains high, more research is obviously needed.
Of course, a forensic analysis of whatever happened in the institute in Wuhan is not in the scope of virus scientists, nor do they have the means.

And now there's the lambda variation ..
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-hospital-reports-1st-case-lambda-covid-19/story?id=78943641

[Skybird]

"May not have" is not the same like "has not for sure".

Just minutes ago I red that British scientists just found a new Corona virus, new type, in bats in GB, and it is even a close relative to Sars Cov 2, apparently, though currently it cannot jump from bats to humans. But what does that prove pro or contra regarding the Wuhan thing?
Correct. Nothing.

The Chinese have every interest to let any possible evidence against them not being discovered, never. And they have lied, delayed, rejected, manipulated oin evertyhign regarding Corona, even persecuted their own scientists ringing the alarm on the pandemic early. They do not play with you, they play AGAINST you. Understand that.

That there is so far no evidence for the lab theory, means not much. Could be there is no cadaver and no murder happened. Could be the cadaver is well hidden just has not been found. Could be the cadaver has been dissolved in acid, and is no more.

[Rockstar]

It’s not the liberals favorite Wikipedia but for those with a rational mind it will do


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-lab-leak-hypothesis-media-misinformation-campaign/

The Defender is experiencing censorship on many social channels. Be sure to stay in touch with the news that matters by subscribing to our top news of the day. It's free.

For most of 2020, the notion that SARS-CoV-2 may have originated in a lab in Wuhan, China, was treated as a thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory. Only conservative news media sympathetic to President Donald Trump and a few lonely reports dared suggest otherwise. But that all changed in the early months of 2021, and today most outlets across the political spectrum agree: the “lab leak” scenario deserves serious investigation.

Understanding this dramatic U turn on arguably the most important question for preventing a future pandemic, and why it took nearly a year to happen, involves understanding contemporary science journalism.

A conspiracy to label critics as conspiracy theorists

Scientists and reporters contacted by The BMJ say that objective consideration of COVID-19’s origins went awry early in the pandemic, as researchers who were funded to study viruses with pandemic potential launched a campaign labelling the lab leak hypothesis as a “conspiracy theory.”

A leader in this campaign has been Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit organization given millions of dollars in grants by the U.S. federal government to research viruses for pandemic preparedness. Over the years EcoHealth Alliance has subcontracted out its federally supported research to various scientists and groups, including around $600 000 (£434 000; €504 000) to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Shortly after the pandemic began, Daszak effectively silenced debate over the possibility of a lab leak with a February 2020 statement in the Lancet “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin,” said the letter, which listed Daszak as one of 27 coauthors. Daszak did not respond to repeated requests for comment from The BMJ.

“It’s become a label you pin on something you don’t agree with,” says Nicholas Wade, a science writer who has worked at Nature, Science and the New York Times. “It’s ridiculous, because the lab escape scenario invokes an accident, which is the opposite of a conspiracy.”

But the effort to brand serious consideration of a lab leak a “conspiracy theory” only ramped up.

Filippa Lentzos, codirector of the Centre for Science and Security Studies at King’s College, London, told the Wall Street Journal, “Some of the scientists in this area very quickly closed ranks.” She added, “There were people that did not talk about this, because they feared for their careers. They feared for their grants.”

Daszak had support. After he wrote an essay for the Guardian in June 2020 attacking the former head of MI6 for saying that the pandemic could have “started as an accident,” Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust and co-signer of the Lancet letter, promoted Daszak’s essay on Twitter, saying that Daszak was “always worth reading.”

Daszak’s behind-the-scenes role in orchestrating the statement in the Lancet came to light in November 2020 in emails obtained through freedom of information requests by the watchdog group U.S. Right To Know.

“Please note that this statement will not have EcoHealth Alliance logo on it and will not be identifiable as coming from any one organization or person,” wrote Daszak in a February email, while sending around a draft of the statement for signatories. In another email, Daszak considered removing his name from the statement “so it has some distance from us and therefore doesn’t work in a counterproductive way.”

Tell Schools/Universities No Vaccine Mandates for Children/Young Adults!
Several of the 27 scientists who signed the letter Daszak circulated did so using other professional affiliations and omitted reporting their ties to EcoHealth Alliance.

For Richard Ebright, professor of molecular biology at Rutgers University in New Jersey and a biosafety expert, scientific journals were complicit in helping to shout down any mention of a lab leak. “That means Nature, Science and the Lancet,” he says. In recent months he and dozens of academics have signed several open letters rejecting conspiracy theory accusations and calling for an open investigation of the pandemic’s origins.

“It’s very clear at this time that the term ‘conspiracy theory’ is a useful term for defaming an idea you disagree with,” says Ebright, referring to scientists and journalists who have wielded the term. “They have been successful until recently in selling that narrative to many in the media.”

The Lancet’s editor in chief, Richard Horton, did not respond to repeated requests for comment but, after The BMJ had sent him questions, the Lancet expanded Daszak’s conflicts of interest on the February statement and recused him from working on its task force looking into the pandemic’s origin.

The Lancet letter ultimately helped to guide almost a year of reporting, as journalists helped to amplify Daszak’s message and to silence scientific and public debate. “We’re in the midst of the social media misinformation age, and these rumors and conspiracy theories have real consequences,” Daszak told Science.

Months later in Nature, he again criticized “conspiracies” that the virus could have come from the Wuhan Institute of Virology and complained about “politically motivated organizations” requesting his emails.

That summer Scientific American, one of the oldest and best known popular science magazines in America, published a complimentary profile of Daszak’s colleague, Shi Zhengli, a center director at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which has been funded by EcoHealth Alliance.

EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology earned additional sympathetic reporting after the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) cancelled its grant to EcoHealth Alliance in April last year — allegedly on President Trump’s order — because of its ties to Wuhan, a decision protested by 77 Nobel laureates and 31 scientific societies. (The NIH has subsequently awarded EcoHealth Alliance new funding.)

Efforts to characterize the lab leak scenario as unworthy of serious consideration were far reaching, sometimes affecting reporting that had first appeared well before the COVID-19 pandemic. For example, in March 2020 Nature Medicine added an editor’s note (“Scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus”) to a 2015 paper on the creation of a hybrid version of a SARS virus, co-written by Shi.

Wade explains, “Science journalists differ a lot from other journalists in that they are far less skeptical of their sources and they see their main role as simply to explain science to the public.” This, he says, is why they began marching in unison behind Daszak.

The U turn

By the end of 2020, just a handful of journalists had dared to seriously discuss the possibility of a lab leak. In September, Boston magazine reported on a preprint that found the virus unlikely to have come from the Wuhan seafood market, as Daszak has argued, and that it seemed too well adapted to humans to have arisen naturally.

However, the story failed to garner much attention, similarly to a little noticed investigative report by the Associated Press in December that exposed how the Chinese government was clamping down on research into COVID-19’s origins.

In January this year, New York magazine ran a sprawling story detailing how the pandemic could have started with a leak from the lab in Wuhan.

The hypothetical scenario: “SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, began its existence inside a bat, then it learned how to infect people in a claustrophobic mine shaft, and then it was made more infectious in one or more laboratories, perhaps as part of a scientist’s well-intentioned but risky effort to create a broad-spectrum vaccine.” Scientists and their media allies swiftly criticized the article.

But mainstream outlets from the New York Times to the Washington Post are now treating the lab leak hypothesis as a worthy question, one to be answered with a serious investigation. In a recent interview with the New York Times, Shi denied that her lab was ever involved in “gain of function” experiments (See: What is “Gain of Function research” below) that enhance a virus’s virulence.

But the newspaper reported that her lab had been involved in experiments that altered the transmissibility of viruses, alongside interviews with scientists who said that far more transparency was necessary to determine the truth of SARS-CoV-2’s origins.

[Rockstar]

A play by play of questioning how the Democrats man god of science and truth Fauci was able to continue funding gain of function experiments to his good friend Dr. Daszak and his cronies at EcoHealth Alliance..

Warning: NSFW LANGUAGE Jimmy goes on a potty mouth tirade

https://youtu.be/hSEC176fdGY

[Catfish]

I do not disagree with all you say, mind you, although i always ask myself what covid or a sack of rice has to do with "democrats". Wiki may have its flaws, but not as much as this
It’s not liberals go too vault of truth Wikipedia but I guess it will have to do,
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-lab-leak-hypothesis-media-misinformation-campaign/"The Defender is experiencing censorship on many social channels.
One might say and rightly so:
"Overall, we rate the Children’s Health Defense a strong conspiracy and quackery level advocacy group that frequently promotes unsupported claims. We also rate them low for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda as well as several failed fact checks."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/childrens-health-defense/

[Rockstar]

I do not disagree with all you say, mind you, although i always ask myself what covid or a sack of rice has to do with "democrats". Wiki may have its flaws, but not as much as this

One might say and rightly so:
"Overall, we rate the Children’s Health Defense a strong conspiracy and quackery level advocacy group that frequently promotes unsupported claims. We also rate them low for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda as well as several failed fact checks."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/childrens-health-defense/


Shibbolethink?

[Buddahaid]

"May not have" is not the same like "has not for sure".

Just minutes ago I red that British scientists just found a new Corona virus, new type, in bats in GB, and it is even a close relative to Sars Cov 2, apparently, though currently it cannot jump from bats to humans. But what does that prove pro or contra regarding the Wuhan thing?
Correct. Nothing.

The Chinese have every interest to let any possible evidence against them not being discovered, never. And they have lied, delayed, rejected, manipulated oin evertyhign regarding Corona, even persecuted their own scientists ringing the alarm on the pandemic early. They do not play with you, they play AGAINST you. Understand that.

That there is so far no evidence for the lab theory, means not much. Could be there is no cadaver and no murder happened. Could be the cadaver is well hidden just has not been found. Could be the cadaver has been dissolved in acid, and is no more.

You can't prove a negative.

[Rockstar]

I do not disagree with all you say, mind you, although i always ask myself what covid or a sack of rice has to do with "democrats". Wiki may have its flaws, but not as much as this

One might say and rightly so:
"Overall, we rate the Children’s Health Defense a strong conspiracy and quackery level advocacy group that frequently promotes unsupported claims. We also rate them low for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda as well as several failed fact checks."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/childrens-health-defense/

What does your biased bias fact checking tell you about the fact the so-called right wing Children’s Health Defence and a left wing socialist Jimmy Dore are saying the same thing?

What’s important is the content of the article not q- anonymous contributors on Wikipedia or what ones politics are.


Shibbolethink!

[Catfish]

^ Nothing. You obviously did not even look at the site, they make no decison here about left or right, only that they are a bit loose with facts.

[Skybird]

You can't prove a negative.
Follow the motives. Who benefits?

The world financial system has accumulated plenty of additional stress. The dollar is under pressure as a leading reserve currency. The EU writhes with the economic aftermaths and the desperate attempts to battle delcine ion eocniomc dveleopoment and negative growth. Not much easier it is for the US.

Meanwhile China's economy grows again already, I saw 3, 4 weeks ago in a TV documentary. It bought its way deep into africa and even the EU's flank with its vaccine policy, additional to its credits policy.

Did China suffer? Yes. The point is: it can compensate these losses easier than the West, and get over it faster and easier, while the West whistles with the aftermath, suffers higher losses more doffocult to deal with. By relative comparison of the two, China's global leadership project benefits from all this, and tremendously so. They want ther lead. No matter what, no matter how. They want it, under all circumstances. Who leads, has the say. Its China's mission to see itself as the centre of the world around which all others have to revolve.

And to expand the scope a bit: thats why I refuse to rule out completely that the virus indeed was an intentional attack on the world. Its not the only scenario I think is possible and realistic. But I refuse to take it off the table: its possible, and for an actor as brutal, unscrupulous and determined and militaristic and aggressive as China: absolutely possible to imagine.

And yes, if true, it would be needed to be called world war.

I give the lab escape theory and the zoonose theory higher probabilities, however. But I have this on the scoreboard on rank three.


There is too much opportunism in Catfish'S willingness to accept lacking evidence as case-deciding already. I also see the strong motives to prevent any evidence ever emerging. What china wants, global leadership that is, is a very clear and strong motive.

[Buddahaid]

It's still not proof which is what people are demanding and I doubt if people would believe it if it ever is found. Alternate truth and all that entails. If it isn't what I think it is it must be wrong mentality.

[Rockstar]

^ Nothing. You obviously did not even look at the site, they make no decison here about left or right, only that they are a bit loose with facts.


I know you won’t be able to tell me but I have to ask, loose with what facts? All I ask is please keep it within the confines of the topic at hand.

I’m concerned wether Fauci was trying to cover his own arse and his friend Daszak when he initially said, to the delight of all the Democrat bootlickers, the Lab was not the source of the pandemic. I want to know the facts about why after the Obama administration stopped funding. The god man hero of the Democrats and liberal elitists around the world was funneling money through EcoHealth Alliance thereby allowing gain of function experiments continue. I want to know why he lied to congress. Over 4 MILLION people dead did Fauci contribute to this?

[Skybird]

It's still not proof which is what people are demanding and I doubt if people would believe it if it ever is found. Alternate truth and all that entails. If it isn't what I think it is it must be wrong mentality.
Yeah, thats true, and true for both camps. Hawks will not believe because they are hawks, and doves will not believe evidence for Chinese guilt because it busts peacey illusions.

I'm quite hawkish myself on China, based and caused by their very own behaviour and policy over the years, but from some point on I would accept the "evidence of no evidence found" as a temporary settlement of the conflict (because the bigger conflict between the world and China will not end). Its just that I found the limited and extremely manipulated and obscured research the (China-obedient) WHO ran, not convincing, right because the Chinese cracked down so heavily on its work. If that "research" then results in "no evidence found", I am not impressed at all. I only see the waste of time in it.

[Skybird]

The hypocricy of Nord Stream 2 critics.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/manche-nord-stream-2-kritiker-sind-putins-partner-17449724.html


I stick to it, it always has been, and most dominantly, about selfish economical interests of the US, the UK, France. Poland also must be posted, because they hoped to build their own pipeline project in the region, to US terminals near or in Denmark, for financial and blackmalign advantage face to face with the EU and - Germany once again.

The moment the Germans said they get a direct pipeline themseleves to join an established club of Western nations ansd big Wetsenr oil compoanies like Exxon and BP and Total, all others immediately cracked down on it to keep it down and the unwanted rival out. While themselves they all are comfortably in bed with Rosneft.

Not surprising, but still: hypocrisy of the finest. And Ted Cruz? One of the loudest US critics simply wanted to sell his state's own overpriced gas to Europe, more of it than it already does. Just that nobody over here wanted any more than already is being bought for those excessive prices asked. The German govenrment asked around in the industry whether there would be any interested customers. They found - none. Not a single one. Nobody. Too overpriced, they heard. Too dirty, they heard. Needs too much post-processing, they were told. No competitive offer, they were told. So they terminated the plan to build additional terminals for US gas tankers (as was offered as a concession). But a billion and more for a terminal that sees no ship using it?

I've said it from all beginning on when they started to bang the wardrums: oldfashioned, classical hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy! Pure and undisguised.

[Catfish]

It’s not the liberals favorite Wikipedia but for those with a rational mind it will do https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...tion-campaign/ (https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-lab-leak-hypothesis-media-misinformation-campaign/)So you really think a rational mind would pick this website? :hmmm:
What does your biased bias fact checking tell you about the fact the so-called right wing Children’s Health Defence and a left wing socialist Jimmy Dore are saying the same thing?
But again it does not say the site is right-wing. If you allege that hare-brained conspiracy theories are automatically right wing... but it even seems to have a "left" founder:

"Founded in 2016 as the World Mercury Project which was renamed Children’s Health Defense, is an anti-vaccine nonprofit pseudoscience organization. It was founded and is chaired by Robert F. Kennedy Jr who is an American environmental attorney, author, and opponent of vaccination. Kennedy is a son of Robert F. Kennedy and nephew of former president John F. Kennedy."

So founded by a "left" democrat?

I think bias fact check is doing quite a good job. Again, in this case they do not even say whether this "Children's health defense" or "The Defender" or whatsitcalled website is left or right, they just say it does not present facts, but wrong information:

Conspiracy level: strong
Pseudo sci level: quackery
Factual reporting: low

With LOTS of examples and evidence if you care to read.

"promoting anti-vaccination propaganda the Children Health Defense has also promoted the debunked conspiracy that fluoride lowers the IQ in children. At this time there is not enough evidence to make that claim. Other conspiracies and/or pseudoscience promoted on this website include the dangers of 5G ..."

"In review, Children’s Health Defense primarily publishes news and information that is skeptical of vaccines and their safety. The website also features a research section that typically does not align with the consensus of science regarding vaccines and other scientific matters."

So why should i believe or consider what a proven bull website writes? You may have a point or two, but this is not really supporting any.
I know you won’t be able to tell me but I have to ask, loose with what facts? All I ask is please keep it within the confines of the topic at hand.
A topic made up by this website? There are no "facts", so why should i consider this? Reuters, AP News, BBC and so on, when they publish something it may be worth to consider it, but this?

"Fauci was trying to cover his own arse
Democrat bootlickers
god man hero of the Democrats and liberal elitists
he [Fauci] lied to congress
Over 4 MILLION people dead did Fauci contribute to this"

Your unbiased and neutral view?
I want to know the facts about why after the Obama administration stopped fundingBut i am not able to tell you this, those accusations are not from me and i do not have to defend them. Maybe Trump stopped it because of his view on China? We all know how well funded his claims are and that he has been the utmost spearhead of truth.
But even if he is right, evidence please:

1st about the lab leak (entirely possible, if intended or not)
2nd how Fauci "lied to congress"

I only see a few plausible theories and a lot of conspiracy ones.


edit:
if there was this "gain of function research" in the Wuhan laboratory, it has to be proven by the accuser.
If it was Fauci who initiated tis knowingly, this also applies.

Plot twist: The US directed willingly a gain of function research for trying to create a biological weapon, but did it in China so no US law was breached, and China knows about it but cannot admit it ..

[Rockstar]

Low hanging fruit, tic toc tic toc, inner circles, Russian collusion, blah blah

https://youtu.be/WWeqNM7SsoI

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/VXYsGuBdzM4


“Let them eat cake.”
https://i1.wp.com/www.nationalreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/nancy-pelosi-super-rich-husband-b-2.jpg


Tic tock tic tock, inner circle, Trump, low hanging fruit, blah blah

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699


A more general point is that any evaluation of research and the risks involved can be subjective.

Rebecca Moritz of Colorado State University told the BBC: "There is not always consensus [on gain-of-function research] even amongst experts, and institutions interpret and apply policy differently."


https://de.scribd.com/document/508241404/Ralph-Baric-Statement-to-The-Fact-Checker

[Rockstar]

We were federally funding GOF experiments and even conducting them in the U.S. until Obama stopped it because of the dangers involved.

From what I’ve been reading and depending on who you ask. The thought is NIH was funding EcoHealth Alliance who then contributed to GOF experiments in Wuhan. That’s the way I understand it.

In the beginning of the pandemic Daszak was very greatfull to Fauci. When Fauci decreed the lab leak theory was debunked before anyone had a chance to ask what happened.

People are just now starting to publicly ask questions and trying to piece the puzzle together. Fauci has now changed his tune and said it could have been a lab leak. Personally, if he knew about it and was covering for Daszak. Damn them both to hell. 4 million dead.

[Strykr]

PATRIOTS...
Are in control.

When do you arrest the shoplifter ???

[Buddahaid]

We were federally funding GOF experiments and even conducting them in the U.S. until Obama stopped it because of the dangers involved.

From what I’ve been reading and depending on who you ask. The thought is NIH was funding EcoHealth Alliance who then contributed to GOF experiments in Wuhan. That’s the way I understand it.

In the beginning of the pandemic Daszak was very greatfull to Fauci. When Fauci decreed the lab leak theory was debunked before anyone had a chance to ask what happened.

People are just now starting to publicly ask questions and trying to piece the puzzle together. Fauci has now changed his tune and said it could have been a lab leak. Personally, if he knew about it and was covering for Daszak. Damn them both to hell. 4 million dead.

Sure, there might be something to that, then again, the lab leak hypothesis has never been nailed down and people like Dr. Fauci are compelled to report what the facts support at the time, not speculations to support a political narrative and besides, people have been asking questions and trying to piece the puzzle together from the beginning with questionable cooperation from the Chinese.

On the other hand, the former president appears to simply have made up stories to fit his agenda at the time with little regard for finding any truth as long as it played to his supporters.

[Rockstar]

One said it came was a lab leak the other said it was a natural spillover. Makes no sense to me how anyone other than by bringing divisive politics into the fray can claim one made up stories while the other by some miracle had facts. The fact is neither have put forward conclusive evidence of origin. And frankly all of it will probably be buried and forgotten.

And while Trump is most likely still thinking lab leak which I bet he heard as a possible source from one of his intel briefings. The only opinion that has changed is Fauci’s who after finally being pressed went from decreeing natural spillover to well ya we need to look into the lab leak theory. Going so far as to blame the Chinese in an attempt to deflect responsibility during his testimony before the Senator.

It seems Fauci’s ‘fact’ is really just a deliberate act to obscure the truth or wishful thinking to make himself the hero of the hour.

[mapuc]

This is nothing but pure speculations.

Could it be so, that the vaccine has been underway long before we were witness to the first Covid-19 case ?

I can't put the finger on where the problem is..but there are things which seems not right here.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

This is nothing but pure speculations.

Could it be so, that the vaccine has been underway long before we were witness to the first Covid-19 case ?

I can't put the finger on where the problem is..but there are things which seems not right here.

Markus

I don't but that for a minute Markus.

There is going to be a substantial third wave in the US and I'm going to lay the blame for that squarely at the feet of those who are screaming the loudest to get back to normal for their wonderful work in discouraging people from getting a vaccination. We could be effectively over this now! Stupid, stupid, stupid!

[Skybird]

This is nothing but pure speculations.

Could it be so, that the vaccine has been underway long before we were witness to the first Covid-19 case ?

I can't put the finger on where the problem is..but there are things which seems not right here.

Markus
Nothing I have read or heard could make me thinking that. Corona is a family of vorusses and since SARS 2003 they did extensive reasearch on them, additional to the one before, and the vaccines for Covid-19 benefit a bit from pre-existing knowledge and technologies, while they also broke new ground in some cases. I would nto ciunt that as a hint for an conspiracy to create a pandemic just so to form a market for a to-be-developed coin.g enerating vaccine for the evil wicked pharama industry. The pharma industry is guilty of a lot of bad things, policies, lies and questionable "products" that in many cases overstep the red line to physical assault, I have no doubt on that. But this narration you asked for I do not believe one second.

Adding to Buddhahaid I think there will be another "wave", if it makes sense anymore to speak of these, amongst vaccinated as well. The point is that while vaccinated will get infected in scores (but not as high scores than unvaccinated), they will usually not end up in hospitalization anymore. Also they will contribute much less to spreading the desease around, than unvaccinated do. Regarding Long Covid, however, its to early to make conclusions already. It can form up even without earlies heavy symptoms and hospitalization, can even affect people who felt no symptoms at all, and months later - Bang!



Thats why I still think that helping your body to get into a shape where it is better set up to fight, still is important. Loose overweight. Reduce sugars and carbohydrates. Modulate your immune system. Get your lung functions into shape, excercise moderately, stop smoking, fight your diabetes off, get rid of all those toxic plant oils and corn syrups that "enrich" your body's inner milieu with silent inflammatory "explosives" by factors of 20, 30 even 40. Things like that. Eat healthy. And first learn what healthy eating really means - its not necessarily what the vegans and fitness gurus and health"experts" and practitioners are telling you. I touched upon these points many times last and this year, didn't I.

Most people killed, were old and/or fat and or diabetic., with resulting cardiovascular problems and lung functions deficits already in place. The very overwhelming majority. Stupid fat balls show up in social media and praise how great they feel "to be themselves", and that you should not be bodyshamed, and that you should see extreme fatness as part of yourself and that things are great and good and wonderful. But they gloss over it, they just find excuses for the state they are in, they want not to adress their issues, they do not want to change. Truth is: they simply are fat, they are ugly to watch at, they are seriously degraded in health, they have a lower life expectancy due to health problems coming from being fat, and it compromises their body's abilities to fight against external germs. Its rationalizing from A to Z, that simple the bitter truth is.

Learn. Eat better. Avoid all the sh!t the industry sells you as "food". Lose overweight. Fight your diabetes. Often - though not always - you will find that you can then reduce existing prescribed medical drugs. Often (not always!) you are given drugs that make things worse and worse over time, and that you started with just because you have eaten yourself ill: by eating the wrong stuff, and not enough of what your body needs. The reasons for the latter can be many, and are not always the responsbility of the individual, if you never have learned somehtign, then you do not know it better. There are so many lies out there that are treated as paradigms. I touched quite some of them over the past months.

[Rockstar]

This is nothing but pure speculations.

Could it be so, that the vaccine has been underway long before we were witness to the first Covid-19 case ?

I can't put the finger on where the problem is..but there are things which seems not right here.

Markus

I seriously doubt ‘big pharma’ started this pandemic to make a buck. HOWEVER! ;)

Gain-of-function (GOF) research involves experimentation that aims or is expected to (and/or, perhaps, actually does) increase the transmissibility and/or virulence of pathogens. Such research, when conducted by responsible scientists, usually aims to improve understanding of disease causing agents, their interaction with human hosts, and/or their potential to cause pandemics. The ultimate objective of such research is to better inform public health and preparedness efforts and/or development of medical countermeasures. Despite these important potential benefits, GOF research (GOFR) can pose risks regarding biosecurity and biosafety. GOFR is a subset of “dual-use research”—i.e., research that can be used for both beneficial and malevolent purposes. Whereas the dual-use life science research debate has largely focused on biosecurity dangers associated with potential malevolent use of research, the GOFR debate has more explicitly focused on risks involving both biosecurity and biosafety—the point being that creation of especially dangerous pathogens might pose highly significant biosafety risks that are independent of, and perhaps more feasible to measure/assess than, risks associated with malevolent use.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4996883/

Very scary stuff. So I blame ignorant voters who allow this kind of stuff to happen.


Anyway IMO it could have been a natural spill over though I have my doubts. Or someone just screwing up at the lab that caused a lab leak. Or I also think one possibility is it could have been intentionally let loose by the Chicoms to weaken our economy.

[mapuc]

My friends I stand corrected I was wrong.

I did not think big pharma or conspiracy.

Skybird wrote it best. The vaccine is a development from first SARS 2003.

Markus

[Rockstar]

I’m not really liking their thoughts suggesting the possibility and why this virus could continue mutate into something even more dreadful.

“So I guess we should have taken the lab leak theory more seriously at the beginning.” - Bill Maher

https://youtu.be/ZMGWLLDSA3c

[Rockstar]

Interesting little tid bit. Fauci’s buddy Peter Daszak is not only suspected of funneling money for GOF research at Wuhan lab. But guess what else he does? He also happens to be one of the WHO investigators investigating the Wuhan bio security and here’s a shocker, he found no evidence of a lab leak, imagine that. :har:

https://youtu.be/__Czlg1xLJA

[Skybird]

^ Now that is something to get started to think on. I googled it up further, and it seems this is not just a spill of drivel from the usual right wing suspects or FOX anymore. I mean the part of Daszak being nominated for investigating Wuhan. The suspected fox in the hen house turned into a neutral examiner of the missing of one or two hens?

Everybody - and I think of the video of that clash between Rand Paul and Fauci - should restrain from from excessive rethorics, because the use of excessive rethorics all too easily suggests that the speaker has to hide something, namely a lack of argument. As I said, Rand Paul did not do his cause a good service with always interrupting to break the completion of even just a sentence by Fauci. People like me get easily extremely pissed by such manipulative behaviour. Thats a pity, because as far as I got an overview on Rand Paul, he should be absolutely able to hold his - libertarian - grounds without such tricks. He seems to be one of the most Trump-critical amongst Republican politicians, or not? Although nevertheless close to the Tea Party, which is no compliment in my book.

I consider the possibility that this whole story holds more truth than I initially assumed.

[Skybird]

I’m not really liking their thoughts suggesting the possibility and why this virus could continue mutate into something even more dreadful.

“So I guess we should have taken the lab leak theory more seriously at the beginning.” - Bill Maher

https://youtu.be/ZMGWLLDSA3c


0:57 ff. True, and I must admit: true beyond just the US.



As I described just before, I reacted allergic to Rand Paul just because of his behaviour.

[MaDef]

I don't but that for a minute Markus.

There is going to be a substantial third wave in the US and I'm going to lay the blame for that squarely at the feet of those who are screaming the loudest to get back to normal for their wonderful work in discouraging people from getting a vaccination. We could be effectively over this now! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
correct me if I'm wrong, but did not both Biden & Harris indicate they would not trust a vaccine that was developed under the Trump Administration ie; operation warp speed? They spent months putting out that message during their campaigns, is it a wonder some people listened?

If you want to increase vaccine numbers, I suggest you get Fauci and all those other so called experts to get their act together, they've backtracked and changed recommendations so many times I need a logic chart to try and keep track of the BS.

The Covid-19 "PANDEMIC" has a mortality rate of less than 2%, and the only ones pushing the idea that we still need lockdowns are Politicians & Nervous Nellies.

[mapuc]

May I change the subject to Domestic American politics.

A friend posted this youtube video on his wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSiJy3kJzPg


The video made me wonder..is he suffering from some psychological disease ?

Markus

[Buddahaid]

correct me if I'm wrong, but did not both Biden & Harris indicate they would not trust a vaccine that was developed under the Trump Administration ie; operation warp speed? They spent months putting out that message during their campaigns, is it a wonder some people listened?

If you want to increase vaccine numbers, I suggest you get Fauci and all those other so called experts to get their act together, they've backtracked and changed recommendations so many times I need a logic chart to try and keep track of the BS.

The Covid-19 "PANDEMIC" has a mortality rate of less than 2%, and the only ones pushing the idea that we still need lockdowns are Politicians & Nervous Nellies.

I don't recall that and it would seem a silly thing to say so I'll file that under suspect.

Maybe working in a hospital gives me a different slant, but I never felt any significant issues with precautions to take after June 2020 when the full impactof the first wave had been felt and warnings of a second wave in the fall/winter flu season were being given. Certainly the political weaponizing of the pandemic during the presidential campaign didn't help clear things up.

If you take this so lightly why is Missouri asking for funds to set up a field hospital?

"CoxHealth and the city’s other hospital, Mercy Springfield, were treating 168 COVID-19 patients Friday, up from 31 on May 24, before the surge began, said Aaron Schekorra, a spokesman for the Springfield-Greene County Health Department. He said that 36 of them were on ventilators."

"Erik Frederick, the chief administrative officer of Mercy Springfield, also turned to Twitter in an effort to bolster vaccinations, noting that they prevent deaths.

“So if you’re vaccinated there is a light at the end of a tunnel,” he said. “If you’re unvaccinated that’s probably a train.”

State data shows that 44.6% of residents have received at least one shot, far short of the 54.7% rate nationally. And in more than 60 Missouri counties, less than 30% of the population had received their first shot, according to state data.

The situation has grown so dire that Missouri health officials announced Thursday that they were asking for federal help from newly formed surge response teams."

[Rockstar]

May I change the subject to Domestic American politics.

A friend posted this youtube video on his wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSiJy3kJzPg


The video made me wonder..is he suffering from some psychological disease ?

Markus

I get the jist of what he’s trying to say, but ya it does appear he’s got some issues forming words, why that is I couldn’t say. Then around 1:25 he suddenly appears to have a moment of clarity. He should have never been presented as a candidate makes me wonder who is in charge and making decisions. Because I get the impression it’s NOT who was voted for.

Also I’d not get too worked up over him calling Portman a congressman. I think our Constitution refers to both, the Senate and the House simply as Congress.

[Skybird]

May I change the subject to Domestic American politics.

A friend posted this youtube video on his wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSiJy3kJzPg


The video made me wonder..is he suffering from some psychological disease ?

Markus
Age. His brain falls apart. Thats why I said already before the election I do not expect him to complete the legislation period, and that I wonder when president Harris will be reality. Neal called me out on that, I recall.



Still, better than to have his predecessor. Shows how desperate things had become when you still accept an old man with clear cognitive blackouts.

[mapuc]

Who and what can make a demand that Biden should resign if he are suffering from some degree of Dementia ?

His own party ? Speaker of the house, Only Him self ?
The Rep. ?

I wonder if it should be the case, can he then be in charged as the world most powerful man.

It's up the American and no one else whether they think he's fit for office or not.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

As always, outside of death, the impeachment process which makes Kamala Harris president.

[mapuc]

As always, outside of death, the impeachment process which makes Kamala Harris president.


I was thinking impeachment...He hasn't done anything wrong or so, well nothing criminal..so why impeachment.

If a President has to be removed from office, whether it's medical, criminal or some other things it can only be done by impeachment.

Is that correct ?

Markus

[Rockstar]

Who and what can make a demand that Biden should resign if he are suffering from some degree of Dementia ?

His own party ? Speaker of the house, Only Him self ?
The Rep. ?

I wonder if it should be the case, can he then be in charged as the world most powerful man.

It's up the American and no one else whether they think he's fit for office or not.

Markus

The only way I can see this ending with any dignity for the guy is if he personally makes an announcement and voluntarily steps down. Otherwise I’m not so sure any demands will be made since I don’t think the ones actually running the show are in any rush to see him go. They can just continue bombing Syria and Africa, drive the country deeper in debt, keep funding Gain of Function Research, and ‘ol Joe gets the blame.

[MaDef]

She said it during an interview with CNN in Sept 2020.

If you take this so lightly why is Missouri asking for funds to set up a field hospital? If you want an answer (which you really don't want, you're just trying to score some sort of political point) you need to ask the state of Missouri.

The way I see it, (especially with the dysfunctional messaging from the so-called experts) with a 2% mortality rate, (and that is probably high due to under reporting of cases) the lock downs, mask mandates, plus restrictions on travel and socializing is akin to burning the house down to get rid of the mouse that moved into your attic. In plain English it's overkill.

[Buddahaid]

I hope we'll never have to know how much worse it could be by not taking these measures.

About Missouri I suppose it's mearly coincidense that it's one of the least vaccinated states.

[3catcircus]

^ Now that is something to get started to think on. I googled it up further, and it seems this is not just a spill of drivel from the usual right wing suspects or FOX anymore. I mean the part of Daszak being nominated for investigating Wuhan. The suspected fox in the hen house turned into a neutral examiner of the missing of one or two hens?

Everybody - and I think of the video of that clash between Rand Paul and Fauci - should restrain from from excessive rethorics, because the use of excessive rethorics all too easily suggests that the speaker has to hide something, namely a lack of argument. As I said, Rand Paul did not do his cause a good service with always interrupting to break the completion of even just a sentence by Fauci. People like me get easily extremely pissed by such manipulative behaviour. Thats a pity, because as far as I got an overview on Rand Paul, he should be absolutely able to hold his - libertarian - grounds without such tricks. He seems to be one of the most Trump-critical amongst Republican politicians, or not? Although nevertheless close to the Tea Party, which is no compliment in my book.

I consider the possibility that this whole story holds more truth than I initially assumed.

Why is it that things that turn out to have a basis for investigating are always initially declared a right wing conspiracy theory?

99.999% of things that the left declares to be a right wing conspiracy theory always turn out to end up being true to one extent or another.

*Anyone* with any common sense and/or who knows how government works and/or how specifically Asian communist governments operate understood that a lab leak has always been the most likely culprit.

Doing GoF function research with shady funding by the US provided through an intermediary to get around the fact that it was banned in the US.

Operating at a BSL2 level when it should have been done while operating at a BSL4 level.

Incompetent and lazy lab workers.

Not immediately revealing that a leak occurred so as to not interrupt "harmony" followed by a cover-up to hide their workers' incompetence.

PLA interests certainly involved in GoF research with potentially weaponising research - possibly resulting in the cover-up to hide their involvement.

Western interests supporting the cover-up to obscure their involvement.

It will likely end up that Fauci will be proven to have known and supported using Ecohealth Alliance to funnel money to the CHICOMs to do GoF research in direct contravention of the US's ban on conducting GoF research in the US do to the risk involved...

[3catcircus]

The only way I can see this ending with any dignity for the guy is if he personally makes an announcement and voluntarily steps down. Otherwise I’m not so sure any demands will be made since I don’t think the ones actually running the show are in any rush to see him go. They can just continue bombing Syria and Africa, drive the country deeper in debt, keep funding Gain of Function Research, and ‘ol Joe gets the blame.

I couldn't care less about his dignity. He's been a crook for decades. I'd prefer to see him physically hauled out and frog-marched away in handcuffs. But then again, I'd prefer to see the whole damn thing burned to the ground and a do over on just first constitutional principles with government service being by random lottery with no retirement perks.

[Rockstar]

I saw it pretty much as this person did.

https://youtu.be/amByoZ-O4rA

[mapuc]

How high percentage of the American believe that this Corona came from a lab leak.

Curious only

Markus

[3catcircus]

How high percentage of the American believe that this Corona came from a lab leak.

Curious only

Markus

Because of the undeniable science of the structure of the covid virion being extremely unlikely to have occurred naturally as a zoonotic escape due to the cgg-cgg gene sequencing which is extremely rare in nature but commonly used by researchers doing gain of function research. Because of the undeniable track record of the CHICOMs in covering up their screwups and silencing dissidents. Because of the undeniable cultural imperative amongst Asians to not want to upset harmony by providing bad news to superiors so as to save face - it's a necessity amongst all Asian cultures. Because of the undeniable fact that the US government's entrenched bureaucrats, law enforcement, and intelligence community are thoroughly corrupt and have been for decades - they've just been really good at hiding the fact that they're pretty much all corrupt from the masses.

[Skybird]

Why is it that things that turn out to have a basis for investigating are always initially declared a right wing conspiracy theory?

Because the former office holder in the WH produced every day so much rant and rubbish and drivel and nonsense that it becomes a habit to assume another alarm sounding overblown indeed is just another of those many overblown alarms.

As in one of the videos by Rockstar was said: it was the most improper man with the most ruined reputation banging the drums for the lab theory. And I do not take it for granted that he indeed believed or belkieves himself in it - or understands it in full. When he started to make his npoise, he did so for the usual motive of his: to feed his loyal mob of dogs who expect nothing but a spectaculum from him.

As we say in German: ein blindes Huhn findet aus Zufall auch mal gelegentlich ein Korn.

America pays the price for its utmost extreme level of polarization.The US society has gone fully binary - it only knows "0" and "1" now, black and white, totall this or totally that. No inbetween. Hard to have two differing opinions trying to negotiate compromises this way .

[3catcircus]

Because the former office holder in the WH produced every day so much rant and rubbish and drivel and nonsense that it becomes a habit to assume another alarm sounding overblown indeed is just another of those many overblown alarms.

As in one of the videos by Rockstar was said: it was the most improper man with the most ruined reputation banging the drums for the lab theory. And I do not take it for granted that he indeed believed or belkieves himself in it - or understands it in full. When he started to make his npoise, he did so for the usual motive of his: to feed his loyal mob of dogs who expect nothing but a spectaculum from him.

As we say in German: ein blindes Huhn findet aus Zufall auch mal gelegentlich ein Korn.

America pays the price for its utmost extreme level of polarization.The US society has gone fully binary - it only knows "0" and "1" now, black and white, totall this or totally that. No inbetween. Hard to have two differing opinions trying to negotiate compromises this way .

That's where our opinions differ. I couldn't care less that Trump was crude and crass. As President, he was pro-America, tried to get things done to return the US to it's roots, and was entirely unapologetic about it.

Under Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, all the way back to Kennedy, the presidency has been for sale - with other state actors and to buy access for personal profit or the benefit of stares hostile to the US. We were finally energy independent until Biden came in and cancelled keystone. But he has no similar objection to nordstream. We were finally preventing illegal aliens and criminal/terrorist operatives masquerading as illegal aliens from coming here in droves but the left bitches and moans about it (despite Obama quietly deporting more and Biden quietly caging more). A nation that doesn't control its borders isn't sovereign and the vast majority of illegals are here for economic desires rather than being refugees from war or persecution.

[Buddahaid]

That's where our opinions differ. I couldn't care less that Trump was crude and crass. As President, he was pro-America, tried to get things done to return the US to it's roots, and was entirely unapologetic about it.

Under Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, all the way back to Kennedy, the presidency has been for sale - with other state actors and to buy access for personal profit or the benefit of stares hostile to the US. We were finally energy independent until Biden came in and cancelled keystone. But he has no similar objection to nordstream. We were finally preventing illegal aliens and criminal/terrorist operatives masquerading as illegal aliens from coming here in droves but the left bitches and moans about it (despite Obama quietly deporting more and Biden quietly caging more). A nation that doesn't control its borders isn't sovereign and the vast majority of illegals are here for economic desires rather than being refugees from war or persecution.

What a joke. The US has been energy independent for a long time but the oil companies profits count for more so the oil is exported. Now who is for sale? And the Keystone pipeline was intended for oil import from Canada, you know that foreign nation that occupies the north.

[Dowly]

Because of the undeniable science of the structure of the covid virion being extremely unlikely to have occurred naturally as a zoonotic escape due to the cgg-cgg gene sequencing which is extremely rare in nature but commonly used by researchers doing gain of function research.This is incorrect. Double CGG can be found in bat coronaviruses that have evolved in the wild.

[3catcircus]

This is incorrect. Double CGG can be found in bat coronaviruses that have evolved in the wild.

Read it again. I said extremely rare. I didn't say never.

When something is extremely rare in nature but purposefully done in a lab, the lab leak is the most likely explanation.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

[Dowly]

When something is extremely rare in nature but purposefully done in a lab, the lab leak is the most likely explanation.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184


No, it isn't the 'most likely explanation' since it can occur naturally.


The article is behind a paywall so I can't read it, but neither of the authors of that opinion piece have any expertise on the subject matter.

[3catcircus]

No, it isn't the 'most likely explanation' since it can occur naturally.


The article is behind a paywall so I can't read it, but neither of the authors of that opinion piece have any expertise on the subject matter.

Here's the relevant text:

"Of the 36 possible genome pairings that can produce two arginine amino acids in a row — which results in boosting a virus’ lethality — the one most commonly used in gain-of-function research is CGG-CGG, or double CGG, wrote Quay and Muller.

“The insertion sequence of choice is the double CGG,” wrote Quay, the founder of Atossa Therapeutics, and Muller, a former top scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory who now teaches physics at the University of California’s Berkeley campus.

“That’s because it is readily available and convenient, and scientists have a great deal of experience inserting it,” they wrote. “An additional advantage of the double CGG sequence compared with the other 35 possible choices: It creates a useful beacon that permits the scientists to track the insertion in the laboratory.”

The pair noted that the double CGG sequence has never been found naturally among the entire group of coronaviruses that includes CoV-2, which causes COVID-19.

But, in what Quay and Muller called a “damning fact,” it was found in CoV-2."

Considering their backgrounds and experience, they are subject matter experts on the topic.

Here's the paper in question that the WSJ opinion piece is based on.

https://c212.net/c/link/?t=0&l=en&o=3051729-1&h=4045803507&u=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F4477081&a=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F4477081%23

I'll trust a bayesian inference analysis from a doctor whose company is researching covid therapeutics over your unqualified opinion.

Try again.

[Dowly]

Here's the paper in question that the WSJ opinion piece is based on.

https://c212.net/c/link/?t=0&l=en&o=3051729-1&h=4045803507&u=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F4477081&a=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F4477081%23
I encourage everyone to read this. No, not fully, that'd be cruel, but do take a look. :)

[Catfish]

^ It sure does not disppoint.. as one of the scientists said "it looks like quack bullsh!t".

Article has it right that some sequence of the SARS-Cov-2 looks like a "vector" sequence, but it is a naturally occurring coronavirus and "he confuses plasmid vs a vector".
"This unique sequence is not specific to SARS-CoV-2. By aligning several coronaviruses discovered from natural sources, our result showed that this “unique” sequence (1378 bp) from SARS-CoV-2 was also found in other coronavirus (Figure 1), with a high sequence identity. This indicated that this particular fragment in SARS-CoV-2 spike gene was widely spread in naturally existing coronaviruses and was not from laboratory."

"Just because the Chinese government lies a lot, it doesn't mean they are lying about this. There is no need."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1738279

I remember it all has been debunked in early 2020, no idea why someone warms it up in 2021 :hmmm:

"A months long Vanity Fair investigation, interviews with more than 40 people, and a review of hundreds of pages of U.S. government documents, including internal memos, meeting minutes, and email correspondence, found that conflicts of interest, stemming in part from large government grants supporting controversial virology research, hampered the U.S. investigation into COVID-19’s origin at every step. In one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it." -> plot twist

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

[3catcircus]

^ It sure does not disppoint.. as one of the scientists said "it looks like quack bullsh!t".

Article has it right that some sequence of the SARS-Cov-2 looks like a "vector" sequence, but it is a naturally occurring coronavirus and "he confuses plasmid vs a vector".
"This unique sequence is not specific to SARS-CoV-2. By aligning several coronaviruses discovered from natural sources, our result showed that this “unique” sequence (1378 bp) from SARS-CoV-2 was also found in other coronavirus (Figure 1), with a high sequence identity. This indicated that this particular fragment in SARS-CoV-2 spike gene was widely spread in naturally existing coronaviruses and was not from laboratory."

"Just because the Chinese government lies a lot, it doesn't mean they are lying about this. There is no need."

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1738279

I remember it all has been debunked in early 2020, no idea why someone warms it up in 2021 :hmmm:

"A months long Vanity Fair investigation, interviews with more than 40 people, and a review of hundreds of pages of U.S. government documents, including internal memos, meeting minutes, and email correspondence, found that conflicts of interest, stemming in part from large government grants supporting controversial virology research, hampered the U.S. investigation into COVID-19’s origin at every step. In one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it." -> plot twist

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

Why are you conflating the Lyons-Weiler article from February of *last* year with the Quay paper from *this* year? Why are you putting trust into a paper funded by a Chinese government agency, given the well-known penchant amongst the CHICOMs to be less than transparent - there is a massive conflict of interest that a government accused of hiding the possibility that they let it escape from a lab paid for research refuting that claim.

Shine on, you crazy diamond...

[Onkel Neal]

Former California Sen. Barbara Boxer victim of assault and theft

Former US Sen. Barbara Boxer of California was a victim of assault and theft Monday in the Jack London Square neighborhood of Oakland, her office said.

"The assailant pushed her in the back, stole her cell phone and jumped in a waiting car," a spokesperson from Boxer's office said. "She is thankful that she was not seriously injured."
The assault and robbery occurred Monday at 1:15 p.m. local time in the 300 block of 3rd Street, the Oakland Police Department confirmed to CNN.
The suspect "forcefully took" Boxer's cell phone and fled the area in a nearby waiting vehicle, police said.
This incident is currently being investigated by the police department's robbery section, police said. The department is offering up to $2,000 as a reward leading to an arrest in the case.

That's under $950, it's not theft in Kalifornia. She should consider it a donation to someone who needs it more. :haha:

[em2nought]

Former California Sen. Barbara Boxer victim of assault and theft :haha:


This is exactly what we need, criminals need to step up and start targeting politicians and elites. Leave the average joe alone. :D

[Buddahaid]

Political satire aside it's a pretty pathetic form of elder abuse and I hope they choke on it.

[Rockstar]

What do you expect when the Democrats judicial system is modeled after Fish and Wildlife’s catch and release program? Catch a criminal, release a criminal. He’s just doing what criminals do, he should have been jail. Do police in California always offer $2,000 rewards or does this have something to do with white privilege liberals and snowflakes been crying about?

[MaDef]

The reward is offered because Boxer is/was a prominent political figure in California. Had this happened to my mother-in-law or wife, when I called to report it I would be directed to fill out a police report via their online website and would have received a case # via email and no reward would have been offered.

[mapuc]

Why are you conflating the Lyons-Weiler article from February of *last* year with the Quay paper from *this* year? Why are you putting trust into a paper funded by a Chinese government agency, given the well-known penchant amongst the CHICOMs to be less than transparent - there is a massive conflict of interest that a government accused of hiding the possibility that they let it escape from a lab paid for research refuting that claim.

Shine on, you crazy diamond...

This is one of many reason to why I do not believe anything anymore.

I have decided to believe Corona does exist and I shall follow our authorities restriction...

Otherwise I have no education in these fields and can therefore not say what's correct and what's incorrect.

I believe in myself and my cat.

Markus