Wuhan virus 2020 [Archive] - Page 4 - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Skybird

03-05-20, 06:24 PM

@ Skybird.

Thank you for your answer.

It was not exactly what I was asking.

So I will create an example

Person A get infected on day zero time zero(let pretend he shake hand with another person around noon-12 pm)

We know or I have been told this virus infect during its Incubation time.

What I would like to know is, when does Person A start to infect others ?

They say it is 10-20 times as infectous as SARS, and SARS was more infectous than seasonal flu. The probability of getting infected by a patient is the higher the more upwards in the respiratory system the virus already is located. Unfortunately, the upper jaw region holds very high ammounts of the virus. If you got contact with a person who turned out to be infected, do not play with probability numbers and hours counted - but assume your defence being breeched already. Have you notied that they try to pick up people who had contact to a known later patient, no matter any time factors ans severeness of symptoms in said patientr? They try to pick them all nevertheless, and as fast as possible. It seems nobody really knows absolutely sure how fast it goes, and it may also vary by individual factors of patients. Anyone who got the virus, no matter whether he has symptoms or not, can infect you, because he then carries the virus. A new patient where the virus still sits deep in the respiratory system, nevertheless can infect you by smear infection: person moves his hand to the face and mouth (people usually do that 2-3 thousand times a day), and then shakes your hand or a surface of a table or a grip (see below), or he is coughing and breathing or simply speaking and happen to already breath out virus with his breathing moisture. It seems nobody yet knows how fast it goes. But it is known that this thing is infectous as hell.

Quarantining people does not care for how long contact is ago. Quarantining people as early as possible is the priority in any case.

If you want to know whether you got hit by somebody or not, self-quarantine yourself at least 14 days, better longer, and then you see what happens - or try to get tested. which seems to be difficult in Germany, we learn over here. Labs already work at their limits.

Consider also another risk. The virus currently is expected to survive on smooth surfaces for up to nine days, which is quite long for a virus, I think, many virusses can live just hours outside the body. Cold temperature and high air moisture help it further to survive outside a physiological environment. Clean things with desinfectant that have been touched and used by an infected person, or a "candidate".

Traveller

03-05-20, 07:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df6c5w9PlEk

Onkel Neal

03-05-20, 08:27 PM

Far more dangerous? Not likely, doctors, nurses, geneticists, scientists, all 'medical professionals' have a pretty good understanding how coronavirus including COVID-19 works. I would even go so far as to say the mystery is pretty much over. We also have a truck load of statistical information on how and who it affects by age group. We should know by now it is the elderly who are going to get hit hardest by this virus outbreak as is the case with even the common flu. Italy's elderly makes up almost 25% of their population. Only country I know of that has more is Japan. I expect death rates to be much higher in those countries for that reason.

Not sure I agree. (https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/3/143180/36-year-old-%27recovered%27-Wuhan-man-dies)

In China, a 36-year-old man who had been confirmed to have the new coronavirus and was discharged from a hospital in Wuhan on February 26 has died, according to the Chinese publication the Paper, who cited his wife.

The man suddenly became ill on March 2 and died after going to the hospital. The cause of death was respiratory failure caused by the coronavirus, the Guardian reports.

China has been noting daily increases in the number of people “cured” or discharged from hospitals after being confirmed to have the virus. But, after several cases of released patients testing positive again, authorities in Hubei ordered that released patients be quarantined for another 14 days.

Beijing Ditan Hospital in Beijing has meanwhile found that a patient who tested positive for has suffered viral encephalitis caused by the coronavirus, adding to evidence the infections can cause damage to patients’ nervous systems.

And NNU Jane Thomason shares the disturbing results of our national #COVID19 survey of more than 6,500 registered nurses. (https://twitter.com/NationalNurses?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etwee tembed%7Ctwterm%5E1235663306246860800&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediae mbed%2Ffe34gq%3Fresponsive%3Dtrue%26is_nightmode%3 Dfalse)

“Only 29% report that there is a plan in place to isolate a patient with a possible novel coronavirus infection. 23% report they don't know if there is a plan.”

Traveller

03-05-20, 08:46 PM

Rockstar

03-05-20, 09:14 PM

I dont mean to disregard all possibilities. Could this virus be planted by extraterrestrials in a bid to take over the world? Maybe! :D

Believe it or not I'm just trying to be reasonable. I understand there is also political pressure by Chinese authorities to reduce on paper the number of new infections. In fact their numbers have always been suspect right from the get go. So I dont doubt there may have also been several proclamations of so called miracle cures too. But where I lean too is the possibility medical staff are so overworked, tired and like us here too much focused on COVID-19. Completely missing other health issues which may have arisen from being infected by COVID-19. Like viral encephalitis of the brain.

I still stand by the idea the reason for Italy's current death rate is due to the age of the infected population and maybe even poor or overwhelmed health care services. Not by some unknown mysterious more super powerful strain of cooties that by magic appeared out of nowhere and killed that Chinese guy in just five days of being discharged from hospital. Anyone can track the virus in real time by going to 'Nexstrain'. Speaking of Nexstrain, according to analysts COVID-19 is thought to have been in Seattle since mid-January. Seems it may have gotten around in the U.S. long before it even had a name or border closures.

Mr Quatro

03-05-20, 09:33 PM

I dont mean to disregard all possibilities. Could this virus be planted by extraterrestrials in a bid to take over the world? Maybe! :D

Good thing you put a smile on that post we are not allowed to bash each other :hmmm:

I've never been to Italy or China, but I've been to Seattle many times

Seattle is old, the homes are old, the buildings are old, the people are old (percentage wise)

Italy is crowded and it is old

China is crowded and it is old

Japan is crowded and it is old

South Korea is crowded and it is old

Where do people go to the restrooms in old cities?

I have a hunch that too close of contact with people that have to go to the restroom could be a contributing factor.

Especially in North Korea where they have a lot of communal style restrooms visited by the majority of the population.

February is over March is here what's next increase or decrease?

August

03-05-20, 09:34 PM

I still stand by the idea the reason for Italy's current death rate is due to the age of the infected population

You may be right. Isn't is something like half of the US deaths associated with the virus out of that one Seattle retirement home?

Rockstar

03-05-20, 09:36 PM

I have to agree with Neal. There's a good chance the more virulent and deadly Type L strain is reinfecting people, and it is killing younger people, too. I know of at least 3 female Chinese medical workers in their 20s from Wuhan that died from the virus, and I'm sure there are many more we don't know about. I also read that Wuhan hospitals reported relapse / reinfection rates of over 18%. And again, it's much deadlier the second time around if reinfected, increasing the risk of heart failure and other complications.

Regarding Italy, it appears that they are being hit by the deadlier and more virulent L strain. Same with Iran. Furthermore, I read a few days ago that hospitals in northern Italy were already overloaded and at their breaking point. Besides possible reinfections / relapses, this might also account for the higher death rate of 3.5% there. Many patients simply are not getting proper treatment, so expect the death rate to increase later as more become infected.

Again, I think the more reasonable explanation concerning the death of those noble young medical staff is simply that they were human. They were being overworked, poor nutrition, lack of sleep, emotionally drained and physically exhausted, they literally gave their all to help others, dont ever forget them. Any or all of those conditions are well known to be contributing factors which can devastate a persons immune response to viral infection.

Please understand I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation we find ourselves in. Just trying to give reason a chance, instead of what I perceive as the constant looking for of the newest, biggest, meanest, deadliest. unrestrained mutated boogeyman at every turn.

Buddahaid

03-05-20, 10:13 PM

Well enjoy your isolation. I work in hospitals and will likely be exposed at some point and I do take it seriously, so given all that is known, just what is reasonable?

Traveller

03-05-20, 10:25 PM

Rockstar, no problem. I hope you're right. I really do. :yep:

Why everyone should wear a mask- whether infected or not:
https://smartairfilters.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/4-EN-768x576.jpg
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/n95-mask-surgical-prevent-transmission-coronavirus/

At first, I was skeptical about surgical masks because of all the officials in Western countries claiming they do not protect you if are not infected. Now I know this is absolutely not true. They are basically lying.

They only say this to discourage people from buying them because of world-wide shortages. The good news is that surgical masks work almost as well as N95 masks at blocking coronavirus particles. Get a mask if you can and always wear it when going out. N95 is best, but surgical masks also work great at blocking this virus as long as they fit fairly well with few gaps. Heck, even a handkerchief blocks 28% of coronavirus particles. Eye protection is also a must.

Rockstar

03-05-20, 10:46 PM

Well enjoy your isolation. I work in hospitals and will likely be exposed at some point and I do take it seriously, so given all that is known, just what is reasonable?

I think its reasonable to assume you and I will be infected, by either a Type L, Type S mutation or both at the same time of COVID-19. Type L being the more virulent of the two.

see: https://academic.oup.com/nsr/advance-article/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036/5775463?searchresult=1

I think its reasonable to assume our health is extremely important when it comes to our immune system and your ability to help others. You must get SLEEP, you must eat right, exercise and find someone to hash it out with if find you're becoming emotionally overwhelmed.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2017/01/04/Immune-system-reboots-during-sleep/4871483563857/?st_rec=1401485533317

I think our chances being abducted by aliens are greater than dying from coronavirus.

According to the "Roper Poll" 6% of Americans claimed to have been abducted by aliens :03:

Mr Quatro

03-05-20, 10:51 PM

Shouldn't we be thinking about the poor UPS/FedX drivers

Hub grub delivery

Water delivery people

Diaper service

Postal service workers

Taxi drivers

Law enforcement

1st responders

and the list goes on

Let us know when you see these people wearing mask

PS My first day in 27 days without coughing :up:

Rockstar

03-05-20, 10:52 PM

Rockstar, no problem. I hope you're right. I really do. :yep:

Why everyone should wear a mask- whether infected or not:
https://smartairfilters.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/4-EN-768x576.jpg
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/n95-mask-surgical-prevent-transmission-coronavirus/

At first, I was skeptical about surgical masks protecting non-infected people, because of all the officials in Western countries claiming they do not protect you if are not infected. Now I know this is absolutely not true. They are basically lying.

They only say this to discourage people from buying them because of world-wide shortages. Even surgical masks work almost as well at blocking this coronavirus as N95 masks do. Get a mask if you can and always wear it when going out. N95 is best, but surgical masks also work great at blocking this virus as long as they fit fairly well with few gaps. Heck, even a handkerchief blocks 28% of coronavirus particles. Eye protection is also a must.

Wear a mask if ya got'em 1.435 BILLION Chinese cant all be wrong. :salute:

Traveller

03-05-20, 10:59 PM

Rockstar, so true. Here in Japan officials and experts are saying that masks do protect from infection, and they are ramping up production as quickly as possible for the general public due to massive shortages. In my city, I haven't seen a surgical mask for sale in any stores for over 2 months. Only signs on empty shelves saying 'out of stock until further notice'. :doh:

Traveller

03-05-20, 11:24 PM

The US isn't ready for a massive outbreak, experts warn.A moderate scenario might be a million hospitalizations — meaning 200,000 people would need to be in the intensive care unit, and 64,000 people would need breathing machines, said CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta.

The question: "We don't have all that. We have maybe just barely that. And many of those ventilators and breathing machines are currently being used. What are we going to do if that many people actually need care like that?" Gupta said.

The answer: "It's one area where the response has been laggard," responded Ron Klein, President Barack Obama's Ebola response coordinator.

"Getting our health care system ready for the influx of cases is something we should be doing now. We saw in China they built temporary hospitals. They really flexed up their capacity," he said.

"It's not just the people who get coronavirus are going to be affected by this. If hospital emergency rooms are overwhelmed, if doctors and nurses treating those people get sick and staffing drops at our hospitals, if we don't have enough beds, people with other illnesses won't be able to get into the hospital and get treatment. People with routine medical conditions won't be able to get treatment. The possible impact on our health care system is something we should be using this time, as cases ramp up, to get ready for."
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-06-20-intl-hnk/index.html

To be honest, no country's health care system can handle what is coming.

Traveller

03-05-20, 11:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYPZHA-UjUY

Traveller

03-06-20, 04:20 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeufAHFZpjo
(also read the comments under the video on the YouTube page. Very disturbing anecdotal evidence from various posters)

No matter where you all live, be prepared for lots of empty shelves, probably for at least the next 6 months. Most of their factories are still shut down, as is most container shipping traffic to (raw materials) and from (finished products) China.

Here's a recent before and after pollution satellite photo showing that probably 95% of their manufacturing is currently shut down: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/03/01/china_trop_2020056-e1a9c9a00d871f9e5dda6b8f263a3215b34f8304-s1200-c85.jpg

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak

South Korea confirms 827 new cases on Friday. Total number of infected now almost 6,600.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-china-south-korea-cases-economic-impact-asia-pacific.html

Mr Quatro

03-06-20, 06:29 AM

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/03/01/china_trop_2020056-e1a9c9a00d871f9e5dda6b8f263a3215b34f8304-s1200-c85.jpg

The results are amazing and are due to 5 million gallons a day in less crude oil being used :o

Skybird

03-06-20, 07:06 AM

Getting mask now in Germany, is literally impossible. They are out of stock everywhere,s ince ten days or so.

Governments lie. Of course they lie, becasue they want to avoid panic. I did not beleive the German government and its claims about how well under control everything is from beginning on. We have quite some stories circulating already that reveal that the system of ours doe snto work too well.

I am getting wheat again, and will reactivate my old bread-baker machine by Panasonic, baking my own bread again. Helps to avoid needing to go shopping at the baker. Ready baking mixtures are also an option.

I leave the house, of course I do. But I avoid the town now, and leave to do some cycling outside the city.

Traveller

03-06-20, 07:19 AM

Seattle XFL stadium worker tests positive for coronavirus. A part-time employee at CenturyLink Field who worked at the February 22 game between the XFL’s Seattle Dragons and Dallas Renegades has tested positive for coronavirus, according health officials for King County in Washington.

Seattle’s professional sports organizations -- Dragons, First & Goal/Seahawks, Mariners, and Sounders FC -- will continue with scheduled events for now, but the teams are in touch with local health officials and their respective leagues on a regular basis.

The games must continue, at any cost! :03:

55 year-old female Iranian MP dies from coronavirus.Fatemeh Rahbar, a newly elected member of the Iranian Parliament, has died from coronavirus on Friday, according to Iran’s Tasnim News Agency.

Rahbar was a representative for the residents of Tehran. After her health worsened, she had to be connected to an oxygen machine, according to Tasnim.

Number of confirmed cases in Belgium more than doubles in one day, from 50 to 109. Number of confirmed cases in Germany rises to 534.The number of coronavirus cases in Belgium has more than doubled in the last 24 hours, according to a government statement released on Friday.

The confirmed cases in the country have risen from 50 to 109.

In neighboring Germany, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases has risen to 534, according to the German Center for Disease Control Robert-Koch-Institute.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-06-20-intl-hnk/index.html

60 staff at Cork University Hospital in Ireland ordered to self-isolate. No details yet.

Global stock markets have lost a total of $9 trillion so far.About $9 trillion has been wiped off global stocks in nine days, Bank of America said in a research note after US markets closed deep in the red again on Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-china-south-korea-cases-economic-impact-asia-pacific.html

Jimbuna

03-06-20, 08:14 AM

A woman with underlying health conditions has become the first person in the UK to die after testing positive for coronavirus.

The Royal Berkshire NHS Trust said the patient, understood to be in her 70s, had been "in and out of hospital for non-coronavirus reasons".

She was admitted and tested positive for coronavirus on Wednesday.

It comes as the number of UK people diagnosed with the virus reached 116, a rise of more than 30 in 24 hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51759602

It had to come.

Skybird

03-06-20, 08:32 AM

Rockstar

03-06-20, 08:47 AM

Here's a recent before and after pollution satellite photo showing that probably 95% of their manufacturing is currently shut down: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/03/01/china_trop_2020056-e1a9c9a00d871f9e5dda6b8f263a3215b34f8304-s1200-c85.jpg

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/04/811019032/why-chinas-air-has-been-cleaner-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak

Interesting because when you think about the levels of pollution over there I'd bet most Chinese have some degree of unhealthy underlying respiratory condition. I had written earlier the sky is so thick with pollution many Chinese have never seen the sun. Breathing that crap into their lungs since birth may have also been a contributing factor to such high death rates in China. But if corporate goons can keep you believing the virus was the one and only reason, its business as usual for them. Unlike the religion of man made global warming. I'd bet we could come up with some solid numbers that would reveal such pollution was a contributing factor to a great many deaths.

be safe, professional medical personnel from cooks to brain surgeons have a huge task ahead of them. do them a favor and listen to their recommendations. self quarantine if necessary , reduce social contact, stay healthy.

Skybird

03-06-20, 09:24 AM

Rockstar

03-06-20, 10:27 AM

Lets fish in the conspiracy theory lake on another day, Rockstar. While it is true that high air pollution correlates with cardiovascular deseases and deseases of the respiratory system, the global numbers we get on Covid19 are speaking a quite clear language if following the principle of Occam's razor: the L-strain of it, that is the mutated form, is more dangerous and lethal than the original S-strain, and those places who suffer from especially high numbers like in Italy, mostly are affectd by the L-strain. Thats why their numbers are so high.

The fun starts when it mutates again. Possible that it then starts to really bite badly. Not to mention that then it would already be THREE vaccines that are needed.

The development of the SARS vaccine took 7 years, btw.

The economic fallout of it can be expected to become apparent from the second half of March on. Its then when the last containers from china will arrive and no more supplies are at sea.

Sorry Skybird I can't help but to keep poking the AGW crowd. :D

We seem to moving right along. Currently there are several drugs in use that show promise. Ribavirin, penciclovir, nitazoxanide, nafamostat, chloroquine and two well-known broad-spectrum antiviral drugs remdesivir and favipiravir. Unfortunetaly they are probably not available to everyone.

As for vaccine development I know in the U.S. the normal process can take time. Probably why they have already started testing new drugs in China as their regulations may be a bit more relaxed than ours. But we do have what is called 'fast track' for outbreaks like this.
https://www.fda.gov/patients/fast-track-breakthrough-therapy-accelerated-approval-priority-review/fast-track

But I dont think the FDA was what really held things up. With advances in sequencing technology the days of waiting years is IMO a thing of the past.

According to Moderna, the vaccine was developed within 42 days of the company obtaining genetic information on the coronavirus. By comparison, it took researchers about 20 months to start human tests of the vaccine for SARS, an older coronavirus, according to a journal paper written by Fauci.https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/25/business/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

Though the process will take time, drugmakers still expect to move faster than they have with past outbreaks. One reason is due to advances in genome sequencing technology. The process used to take months, but Chinese scientists posted the genome of the virus publicly online only a few weeks into the outbreak.

“That piece of information, for us, is more important than getting a hold of the virus,” Kim says, “that’s all we need.” Inovio’s vaccines use modified DNA sequences delivered into human cells that trigger an immune response against specific pathogens.

Another new advance: mRNA vaccines. These vaccines, made from messenger RNA, are faster and cheaper to produce than traditional vaccines. Moderna will use an mRNA vaccine to target a protein on the coronavirus surface that will also activate the immune system.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

Anyway I do agree type L is as they say a more 'virulent' strain though statistically both strains just like the common flu affect the elderly in much worse ways than the young. I still think at this stage COVID-19 will not require two separate vaccines. If we can vaccinate against COVID-19 type L, type S will have an even harder time infecting the body.

Mr Quatro

03-06-20, 10:38 AM

I went a bit into the links provided above, on air masks.Some words of caution on some of what is beign said there.

While the data on infection rates amongst practical workers stands as it is, the claims on "having tested masks" lacks description how testing is being done in the lab , and methodology. While i may be accepting that a coarse filtering still is better than none (it will not block free virusses, but particles on which virusses for the most sit attached to them) , a finer filter of course is always better, and, and this is my main argument, it is about the fit of masks on the face. Surgical masks never seal mouth and nose against air streams at the rims of the mask completely, when the shape and material are such that they do not reliably follow the contours of skin and face. This imo is a very huge disadvantage of simple surgical masks used for the purpose of shielding you against breathing in virusses from the environment. The better alternative thus always is to use so-called respiratory masks which usally have a hardframe with soft silicon lips at the rims that allow the user to seal off nose and mouth more reliably from the environment, also, these masks apply more pressure by more solid rubber bands to keep the mask in place.

Where you still can get your hands on masks, if you have the choice always prefer respiratory masks, or half-frame masks as they are called over here.

Do not use a mask filter until it is soaking with moisture. A wet filter provides no protection anymore, even helps to distribute virusses back into the environment. You want FFP3 standard, not FFP2 filter. P2 does not filter free-floating virusses out.

Thank you Sky for your mask data on what works. I was given a cheap one at the VA to protect others from my cough, but it was difficult to put on and felt horrible after just a few minutes. I even had it on upside down (my first mask) then I couldn't hardly breathe with it on and a male nurse came along and told me to pull it up over my nose due to I had it under my nose. So then the doctor came in to see me with a mask on and it was a nice one with one of those relief valves on the side. I could hardly understand a word he said though.

I will take your advice and find the right mask, but I can't imagine a world where we will all have to wear one.

I think sporting events will be the next casualty of Covid-19 and then of course anything with a long line like movie theaters :yep:

em2nought

03-06-20, 11:39 AM

Do not use a mask filter until it is soaking with moisture. A wet filter provides no protection anymore, even helps to distribute virusses back into the environment.

The way I sweat here in Florida I probably shouldn't bother with a mask as it would be soaking wet within a short time frame anyway. :hmmm:

mapuc

03-06-20, 12:49 PM

I guess my chances for getting infected is very little but not unlikely.

This has to do with my living.

I can't have it when it's to crowded.

If there's more than 2-3 people together I walk away and stay about 10-15 meters from them. As today when I stood and waited for the bus. First it was 2 person there..then there came 3 more...and I walked away.

Home I am mostly for myself it does happen I have a chat with some of my neighbours.

Try to do my shopping, when it's not so many in the store

Markus

August

03-06-20, 03:10 PM

Be careful sneezing in public. Corona can kill more than just one way!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LawuQG8Z81w&feature=emb_logo

Skybird

03-06-20, 03:36 PM

I will take your advice and find the right mask, but I can't imagine a world where we will all have to wear one.

Neither do I imagine such a world. I dont want to imagine it.

Do like Diesel subs: approach on the surface (get to a centre of possible risk, say a doctor's place or a supermarket, without wearing the mask ), attack the target from below surface (wear the mask while being in the place and being at risk), escape on the surface (no mask needed again once you got out of the risky situation or location). If you act with discipline regarding your hands not touching your face (smearing infections), this way you should be relatively safe and also extend the living time of the filter material.

I do not know how it is in the US, but over here in Germany you cannot get masks anywhwere anymore. I mean legally, without stealing them in hospitals. Same is true for ethanol, isopropyl alcohol, hand desinfectants: not in stock anymore.

Skybird

03-06-20, 03:44 PM

The way I sweat here in Florida I probably shouldn't bother with a mask as it would be soaking wet within a short time frame anyway. :hmmm:
Probably, but then you may have temperatures beyond 30-33°C already (I do not know Florida at this time fo the year)? If so, Corona virusses do not like these temps and die much sooner. Low temperture and moisture-rich environment: good for the virus. High temps beyond 30-33°C , and dry climate: bad for the virus.

But beware, man-to-man infection via breathing works better in dry climate since then the moisture from your breath can travel easier through the dry air, not being hindred by the moisture drops of a very moisture-enriched air around. A dry place means its difficult for the virus to survive outside a body environment, but the situation still can be highly infectous.

Mr Quatro

03-06-20, 04:18 PM

OMG I drive by one of these everyday :yep:

https://scontent.fbis1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/87491172_3261329447214992_5266682107459010560_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQnziXhXSVON_jzZH7cWx7aGkuwefAdOU6Dyqbv7nkR 5-20rUgEyy_U5MJ_cRLfDCnQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fbis1-1.fna&oh=9967ecd7feefc314b19323d0491dde26&oe=5E946A2D

Rockstar

03-06-20, 04:39 PM

Its simple math the more you test the lower the CFR.

Zinc supplements may help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeh054-Hx1U

Catfish

03-06-20, 04:41 PM

Masks are not good for anything.

Skybird

03-06-20, 05:07 PM

Masks are not good for anything.

Ein Satz mit X, Catfish: Das war wohl nix.

:dead:

Jeff-Groves

03-06-20, 05:14 PM

I've got around 350 masks of different kinds.
Bought them over the past several years for demolition work.

Rockstar

03-06-20, 05:17 PM

People keep telling me to take my mask off because Halloween is over. I wonder what that's about?

Skybird

03-06-20, 05:19 PM

Its simple math the more you test the lower the CFR.

Zinc supplements may help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeh054-Hx1U

18:50 ff ;)

Maintain a normal level of Zinc, since an undersupply with Zinc does harm again, that si what I conclude form the video. But additionally raising Zinc levels beyond normal levels (not answering the problem of how to get Zinc into the cell) seems to not help. So the recommendaiton is: do not be deficient in Zinc below normal level. But that Zinc does anything positve if you eat additional supplements, the video more or less openly denies.

Jeff-Groves

03-06-20, 05:20 PM

News just said there MAY be new possible cases in Ohio.
And I've been in and out of Cleveland several times in the last 2 and a half weeks!
:o
https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/two-people-being-tested-for-coronavirus-eight-have-tested-negative-odh-update.html

Skybird

03-06-20, 05:20 PM

I've got around 350 masks of different kinds.
Bought them over the past several years for demolition work.

Filter level? Masks for craftsmen usually are FFP1 or FFP2 only. For biological hazards, you need FFP3. (The norms may be called different in the US.)

Jeff-Groves

03-06-20, 05:29 PM

Filter level? Masks for craftsmen usually are FFP1 or FFP2 only. For biological hazards, you need FFP3. (The norms may be called different in the US.)

I have a variety of masks. Some are approved to wear doing Mold abatement.
Some are for dangerous fumes. Others are simple dust filters.

Traveller

03-06-20, 05:34 PM

In Italy, 778 new confirmed cases. 49 people died from coronavirus on Friday. Their highest single-day increase in deaths so far. The death toll from novel coronavirus in Italy surged today, marking the highest daily increase since the start of the virus outbreak in the country. Angelo Borrelli, head of the Italian Civil Protection Agency, said today that 49 people had died in the last day, bringing the country wide death toll to 197.

The total number of confirmed cases in Italy rose by 778 on Friday, bringing the total number in the country to 4,636.

Borrelli said the median age of the people who have died from the virus in Italy is 81 years of age.44 people confirmed to have coronavirus across New York.
At least 44 people have been confirmed to have the coronavirus across New York, Gov.

Andrew Cuomo said at an afternoon press conference.

The majority of these cases are related to the Westchester lawyer, Cuomo said.
Eight of those confirmed cases are in Westchester County and three are in Nassau County, he said.

Cuomo said at least 4,000 people are under a "precautionary quarantine." This means they were in the proximity of someone that may have tested positive, returned back from travel from a level 2 or 3 country and aren’t showing symptoms.
There are now 79 confirmed cases of coronavirus in Washington state, and 14 deaths.
Washington state health officials are reporting that there are now 79 cases of Coronavirus in four counties in the state, according to the state's Department of Health website. (https://www.doh.wa.gov/emergencies/coronavirus)

King County, which includes Seattle, is reporting 58 cases. Snohomish County has 19 cases. Grant and Jefferson counties each have one case.

Evergreen Heath announced that its 12th novel coronavirus patient has died at its hospital in Kirkland, Washington.

This raises the coronavirus death toll in Washington state to 14, including two past coronavirus fatalities reported at other locations in Washington.
US CDC says older adults should “stay at home as much as possible” due to coronavirus. Amid a coronavirus outbreak in the United States, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention posted new guidance on its website, encouraging older people and people with severe chronic medical conditions to “stay at home as much as possible.”This advice is on a CDC website that was posted Thursday.

The CDC says early data suggests older people and people who have severe chronic medical conditions like heart, lung, or kidney disease are at higher risk for more serious illness from the novel. coronavirus. The CDC says older people are twice as likely to become seriously ill if they become infected with the virus.

Some context: This advice from the CDC comes as two top infectious disease experts with ties to the federal government have advised people over 60 and those with underlying health problems to strongly consider avoiding activities that involve large crowds, such as traveling by airplane, going to movie theaters, attending family events, shopping at crowded malls, and going to religious services.Another previous Grand Princess cruise passenger is now infected.
A sixth person who was previously aboard the Grand Princess cruise ship that voyaged last month from San Francisco to Mexico is confirmed to have been infected with novel coronavirus.

The person, who did not feel well upon arriving home from the cruise, is a resident of Ventura County in Southern California, according to Ventura County Public Health. The patient has since remained at home with mild symptoms, according to county officials, only leaving to receive medical treatment.

The patient’s spouse, who also remains under home quarantine, was also on the cruise but does not have symptoms.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-06-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Tesla CEO Elon Musk says ‘the coronavirus panic is dumb’ as tech peers shift to remote work.Tesla (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=TSLA) CEO Elon Musk (https://www.cnbc.com/id/100987750) said Friday that people are overreacting about the deadly COVID-19, while health officials across the world prepare for a possible pandemic.

“The coronavirus (https://www.cnbc.com/coronavirus/) panic is dumb,” Musk said on Twitter to his more than 31 million followers. Musk does not have a background in medicine or virology.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/teslas-elon-musk-says-the-coronavirus-panic-is-dumb.html

The snake-oil salesman has spoken!

mapuc

03-06-20, 05:50 PM

Some of you have mentioned S and L-strain

so I made a search and found this article

The differences between the two identified strains are tiny. In fact, they can’t really be considered to be separate “strains”, says Jones. And many of the genetic differences won’t affect the production of proteins, and so won’t change the way the virus works, or the symptoms it causes, he says. One is not more deadly than the other.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/

Markus

Skybird

03-06-20, 05:56 PM

mapuc,

your quotes only reflect one side of the article your linked to. It also holds this:

“There do appear to be two different strains,” says Ravinder Kanda at Oxford Brookes University in the UK. “[The L-type] might be more aggressive in transmitting itself, but we have no idea yet how these underlying genetic changes will relate to disease severity,” she says.
“I think it’s a fact that there are two strains,” says Erik Volz at Imperial College London. “It’s normal for viruses to undergo evolution when they are transmitted to a new host.” And mayb emost important, this:

But we can’t say for sure. The study only represents 103 cases. A larger, online database has collated the sequencing results from 166 cases. Both represent a drop in the ocean of the almost 100,000 officially reported cases.
Jones says we can expect more strains to emerge. Epidemiologists generally agree that, once a person is infected with the coronavirus, they are unlikely to be infected again – unless the virus mutates to allow it to overcome the immune system’s defences.The global distribution differences, being as harsh as inIitaly's case although Italy runs one of the tighest regimes worldwide on the virus , must have a reason.

I also take it for granted that there are FAR MORE cases globally than just 100,000. Russia for exmaple has run a systmatic media desinfiormation and ingoriung-the-problem-campaign, and reports hilariously low numbers although it shares the longest land border with china. Chinese numbers I also do not trust - their crematories run extra shifts, hire extra staff, and some sources say they build new ones , like they built new hospitals in Wuhan. And two days ago the German CDC and a federal health ministry refused to agree on numbers in the most affected German state of Northrhine-Westphalia.

How many cases more? I dont know, but I do not expect anything less than several factors.

Traveller

03-06-20, 06:22 PM

Current coronavirus death statistics from Italy (translation):
A report released on Thursday by the National Health Institute of Italy (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&pto=nl&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.iss.it/%3Fp%3D5193&usg=ALkJrhhJzwMsPIfyv4B0zbM1ASTmea1-9A) (ISS), which analyzes deaths in the country, clarifies which people are particularly affected by the virus. As a result, the average age of deceased patients is 81 years. 42.2 percent of them were between 80 and 89 years old, 32.4 percent between 70 and 79, 8.4 percent between 60 and 69, 2.8 percent between 50 and 59, and 14.1 percent over 90 years old. The majority of the deceased were men.https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F article206377013%2FCorona-in-Italien-Fuer-Suedtirol-ist-die-Empfehlung-ein-enormes-Problem.html

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206377013/Corona-in-Italien-Fuer-Suedtirol-ist-die-Empfehlung-ein-enormes-Problem.html

And before anyone says 'See? It's not so bad, because it's mostly only older people who dying from the virus!', let's not forget that these older people who are dying are peoples' parents, grandparents, spouses, etc. Let's not cheapen their deaths just because of their advanced ages.

21 passengers test positive on the Grand Princess cruise ship off California.Vice President Mike Pence said Friday 21 people aboard the Grand Princess cruise ship idled off the coast of California have tested positive for COVID-19.

Of the 21 people who tested positive, 19 are crew members and two are passengers, Pence said, adding that the ship will be brought to a non-commercial port and every person will be tested. He did not say which port the ship will go toward or when it is expected to port.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/vp-pence-says-21-people-on-the-grand-princess-cruise-ship-off-california-coast-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html

moose1am

03-06-20, 06:44 PM

Current coronavirus death statistics from Italy (translation):
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F article206377013%2FCorona-in-Italien-Fuer-Suedtirol-ist-die-Empfehlung-ein-enormes-Problem.html

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206377013/Corona-in-Italien-Fuer-Suedtirol-ist-die-Empfehlung-ein-enormes-Problem.html

And before anyone says 'See? It's not so bad, because it's mostly only older people who dying from the virus!', let's not forget that these older people who are dying are peoples' parents, grandparents, spouses, etc. Let's not cheapen their deaths just because of their advanced ages.

21 passengers test positive on the Grand Princess cruise ship off California. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/vp-pence-says-21-people-on-the-grand-princess-cruise-ship-off-california-coast-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html

Amen! Just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm not important too. :Kaleun_Cheers:

Traveller

03-06-20, 07:25 PM

Japan still not testing most with symptoms. Only 8,111 total tests have been conducted so far- total is less than the number South Korea tests in one day!

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/videos/20200306151420233/

Japan's coronavirus infection rate could be 'tip of the iceberg' as experts call for more testing.
Concerns are growing in Japan that the number of coronavirus cases (https://www.cnn.com/specials/asia/coronavirus-outbreak-intl-hnk) could be higher than reported, with experts questioning the country's approach to testing as infection rates continue to climb.

Japan has come under immense international scrutiny for its handling of the outbreak -- specifically over its quarantine of the stricken Diamond Princess cruise ship in Yokohama Bay.

In neighboring South Korea, infections have surged dramatically (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/asia/coronavirus-lessons-from-asia-intl-hnk-scli/index.html), with more than 6,000 confirmed cases after the government tested tens of thousands of people as part of a mass screening drive. But although the Japanese government says it has the capacity to carry out 3,800 tests a day, only 8,111 tests had been conducted as of March 4, according (https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/newpage_09964.html) to the country's Health Ministry.

On Wednesday, Japan recorded 33 new cases of Covid-19, the illness caused by the novel coronavirus, its highest one-day increase since the outbreak began, according to numbers released by the Health Ministry. The overall total now stands at 1,023, of which 706 are from the Diamond Princess cruise ship.https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/05/asia/japan-coronavirus-infection-levels-hnk-intl/index.html

Idiot bureaucrats are still trying to protect the 2020 Olympic games by not testing people- even those with pneumonia! No testing = No infections. I'm guessing there are already at least 25,000+ unconfirmed cases here. Japan is toast.

Skybird

03-06-20, 07:45 PM

These statistics on quotas calculated on basis if coiunted cases, in generla must be taklen with a grian of salt. We do not know how many of all cases there realyl are are counted by these offiocial case counts, an d how many unkinown escape the statistics. This obviously has an effect on perceived clusters in the existing counts. Its a methodological problem that cannot really be controlled, but it is important nevertheless.

Traveller

03-06-20, 07:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4InhmRCIpow

When used with proper eye protection, surgical masks do work for preventing infection (18:30).

Buddahaid

03-06-20, 08:03 PM

August

03-06-20, 08:15 PM

Okay, so how do you tell if it's Covid-19 or any of the other flu viruses? People still get pneumonia and have other flu illnesses all the time.

Good question. I don't think I have ever gone to a doctor or clinic just because I had the flu and i am certainly not alone in that, so I wonder how many people actually had a mild form of the corona virus and just passed it off as a dose of the flu?

Traveller

03-06-20, 08:18 PM

Okay, so how do you tell if it's Covid-19 or any of the other flu viruses? People still get pneumonia and have other flu illnesses all the time.
That's what makes diagnosing this virus so difficult. The problem is that they could perform up to 3,800 tests per day on suspected cases, but aren't. From what I understand, they are still only testing those who have been to Wuhan, or those who have been in close contact with confirmed infected cases.

Again, it all comes down to protecting the 2020 Olympic games. No tests = No new confirmed cases.

Buddahaid

03-06-20, 09:06 PM

Understandably, that's huge for Japan. Here in my northern California hospitals, I ask everyday if there are any new protocols and read all communications but it's pretty much status quo. The reality is that effective measures are already policy and enforcement is the problem.

Watching your last posted video where NNU talks about patients needing to be placed in negative pressure rooms is great but totally ignores that negative pressure rooms are few in most hospitals. You can't just wave a magic wand and all of a sudden a room is a negative pressure room. It involves a huge change which is also tied into fire compartments etc. Those rooms also have alarm systems to monitor the integrity of the negative pressure and so forth. Not going to happen overnight or over decades.

Traveller

03-06-20, 09:32 PM

Third Washington state nursing home reports coronavirus infection.
A resident of a nursing home in Issaquah, Washington tested positive last night for the novel coronavirus, according to Eastside Fire Deputy Chief Rich Burke.

The patient has since been transferred from the facility to a local hospital, and three firefighters who responded to the scene have self-quarantined.Hawaii confirms previous Grand Princess passenger as first coronavirus case.
Hawaii has confirmed its first novel coronavirus case, according to state officials at a Friday news conference.

Governor David Ige said the patient is a Hawaii resident who traveled on the Grand Princess cruise ship, which is now in quarantine off the coast of California. It’s the seventh confirmed case tied to the cruise ship.

Ige said the Hawaiian patient disembarked in Mexico, but officials are aware that the cruise ship also stopped at four Hawaiian ports last month.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Traveller

03-06-20, 10:04 PM

Today, the news reported that a man with symptoms in Hiroshima, Japan went to 4 different hospitals, but he was refused coronavirus testing each time. He has now tested positive. Good way to spread it around. Yep, I'd say Japan is toast.:timeout:

Buddahaid

03-06-20, 10:10 PM

Today, the news reported that a man in Hiroshima, Japan went to 4 different hospitals with symptoms, but was refused coronavirus testing each time. He has now tested positive. Good way to spread it around.:timeout:

No kidding and I'm not surprised. Even before this problem I was constantly amazed that people would bring lots of family members to the ER and let their little kids crawl around on the floor.

Traveller

03-06-20, 10:45 PM

FBI employee near San Francisco tests positive for coronavirus.
An FBI employee out of the San Francisco field division is among those to test positive for the novel coronavirus, an FBI official confirmed Friday.

The infected person is based out of a smaller satellite office and not the main offices in San Francisco.

Employees of the satellite office were sent home and the FBI is taking all necessary steps to prevent further spread of the virus, the official said.

It’s not clear how the employee contracted the virus. The FBI has notified local health officials and is tracking people who had contact with the employee.
California's Placer County confirms 3 new cases.Placer County in northern California has confirmed three more presumptive positive cases of the novel coronavirus, all of whom were passengers on the Grand Princess cruise ship from San Francisco to Mexico.

Placer County Public Health said in a news release that all three had been isolated at home and didn't require hospitalization.

Placer County has a total of five cases, including one death. California's total is now 64.
Worker at downtown Seattle Starbucks store infected.An employee at a downtown Seattle Starbucks has tested positive for novel coronavirus, according to a memo released by the company Friday evening.

Starbucks said the worker is now isolated at home. The store where the patient worked is now closed, and the company said it was subjected to a deep cleaning overnight.
South Korea confirms 757 new cases on Saturday- the highest single-day increase so far....bringing the national total to 7,041.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Jimbuna

03-07-20, 07:18 AM

The UK remains in the "containment" phase of tracing coronavirus cases to prevent it spreading in the community, England's deputy chief medical officer has said.

Jennie Harries told the BBC a decision about the next phase of delaying the spread of the virus would depend on how fast the number of cases rose.

But she said the UK was "teetering on the edge" of sustained transmission.

Measures to slow the virus needed to be "proportionate", she said.

And Dr Harries warned the public against panic-buying, saying it was unnecessary and it could "engender panic in itself".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51781018

Traveller

03-07-20, 07:43 AM

Head of Italy’s co-governing Democratic Party tests positive for coronavirus. "So, it has arrived, I also have the coronavirus,” Zingaretti said in a video shared on his Facebook page, adding that he is “well” and currently in self-isolation.

“My family is also following the protocols and the local health unit is contacting the people who have been close to me in recent days,” the PD Secretary added.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-hnk/index.html

August

03-07-20, 08:49 AM

So Traveller are you going to individually list every case of Corona virus that crops up around the world?

Onkel Neal

03-07-20, 09:18 AM

It won't be long before it won't be possible to keep up. The US is in the stage China was in around the middle of Jan. In the next two weeks there will be a flood of new cases.

And Dr Harries warned the public against panic-buying, saying it was unnecessary and it could "engender panic in itself".

I wonder what he thinks "panic-buying" is? Getting 2 weeks of supplies? How does he consider that panic?

Traveller

03-07-20, 09:24 AM

So Traveller are you going to individually list every case of Corona virus that crops up around the world?Sure, why not? Only about 6,000,000,000 more to go. :D

US Navy sailor based in Italy tests positive for coronavirus.A US Navy sailor stationed in Naples, Italy, has tested positive for the coronavirus, marking the first positive case for a US service member stationed in Europe, according to a statement from US European Command and U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-hnk/index.html

But seriously, Neil is correct. The numbers are increasing so quickly that soon it will become futile and pointless. Maybe from now on, only the more important people who become infected will be worth posting about.

Rockstar

03-07-20, 09:34 AM

Testing only reveals the already obvious. There is no containing this, its been out from at least mid January in the U.S. long before any border closures. I dont doubt 10's of thousands of people if not more have already contracted the virus defeated it and have long since moved on. If we did test everybody the current Case Fatality Rate would plummet to probably less than 1 percent. But because I'm nearing old fart status and there hasn't been an approved vaccine yet I still following CDC recommendations and reduce social contact which in my mind may help make people like Buddahaid's job easier. Plus I'm really diggin my time off ;)

Jimbuna

03-07-20, 09:45 AM

It won't be long before it won't be possible to keep up. The US is in the stage China was in around the middle of Jan. In the next two weeks there will be a flood of new cases.

I wonder what he thinks "panic-buying" is? Getting 2 weeks of supplies? How does he consider that panic?

I can't say for sure but I know that this morning at our towns largest supermarket they are out of painkillers, soap, hand sanitisers and toilet rolls.

Onkel Neal

03-07-20, 09:45 AM

Sure, why not? Only about 6,000,000,000 more to go. :D

:shucks:

Consider how these cases evolve. They appear in China. A few weeks later an outbreak occurs in Egypt. Then in the US. All from international travel. People are infected and contagious long before they show symptoms. What are the odds that people who travelled from Egypt (and Italy, South Korea, etc) had contact with someone who had contact with someone from Wuhan?

I don't know how many Americans are in Egypt and traveling back to the US, likewise with other non-Americans being in Egypt and then travelling to the US but consider: let's say 10,000 people came from Egypt to the US in the last 3 weeks. That means the virus has spread wide enough in Egypt three weeks ago for some of the 10,000 travelers to have come in contact with someone from among the 98 million Egyptians and get infected before going to the US. That suggests that this was either a hell of a fluke or a lot of Egyptians are infected.

Right now the US looks very much like China did 6 weeks ago. Here's what we may have to look forward to. And remember: China was able to slow the rate of infection by draconian quarantine measures. People in the US may not abide by these steps, someone will get their feelings hurt by being told stay home.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=2999&d=1583592263

Skybird

03-07-20, 10:01 AM

I wonder what he thinks "panic-buying" is? Getting 2 weeks of supplies? How does he consider that panic?
Hoarding like this in German is "Hamsterkäufe" (buying like a hamster). "Hamstern" is an old derogatory Nazi phrasing, brandmarking people who by the act of doing it were accused of expressing their lack of trust into the NSDAP govenrment's all-knowing, all-capable action. Today, the term is seeing a revial, and for the exactly same purpose: defaming people not blindly believing the comments and actions of the government.

It compareds a bit to the times when in the USSR there were no murderings happening. In those couple of years, such crimes were not called that, because that would have cast a shadow on the paradise that was so perfect that murder simply was no longer happening. Because a paradise where there is murder, is no paradise. It were accidents, unsolved mysteries, whatever - but under no circumstance was it murder.

Its also used by antisocial parasite parties preparing to legitmise plundeirng form those who prepared themselves, while many stupids and parsites did nothiugn and in time of need nevertheless hold others responisble for teir failure. "He has goods, he is a hamster, he is anti-social and not solidaric with our needs! Just serves him right if he has to give up what he has!"

You have to express your solidrarity by not preparing but trusting the regi... I mean the government. "Nothing to see here. Walk on, no need to prepare, no need spread alarmism! and panic! Dont believe the fear!-mongers. Masks are not needed by ordinary people. Desinfectants are not needed, ordinary soap will do (actually that probably is true, but still...)"

To be clear, there are hoarders doing exaggerating it, or doing so to earna fortune by selling it for moon prices. The point is that the brandmarking of "hamsters" does not differentiate between reasonably saving reserves for times of need, and abusers. And that non-discrimination is wanted, it puts the reasonably and responsibly acting in the same boat like the abusing ones.

Mr Quatro

03-07-20, 10:05 AM

Isn't it odd that more testing with more testing kits becoming available will produce more results of the virus Covid-19
already being in the general population?

I sure thought I had it with all of the same symptoms as the real thing, but no testing kits at my VA left me with no option left except to self treat it, plus a little help from the VA pharmacy with codeine cough medicine ...

30 days later I feel a lot better, but my point is what if I did really have covvid-19 and didn't know it? I did all of the same things the others did that were told to stay at home and to avoid contact with others. Not everyone dies, not everone goes to the hospital.

Just wait it out be prepared don't even answer the phone get lots of rest don't panic. I've been living off of FedEx deliveries and a nice lady brought over lots of frozen food for me.

The numbers are going to increase, but we all can still live through this ... It can't get us all

Skybird

03-07-20, 10:17 AM

In the long run I see something posiitve coming from this. The era of unconditional optimism in globalization, is over. We have had a long time now when all the many disadvantages of it were simply ignored or denied. But there always have been at least as many loosers of globalization, as there have been winners of it, I think the total balance in the end has to be described as a negative sum. We will now see Western companies moving back production from China, Vietnam and other cheap-wages countries back to where it should have stayed.That important key areas of our production, that are of vital importance for our economies at home, come back to the West, is of utmost importance. Certain things must be produced in many diversified locations around the globe instead of just one centralised production campus that supplies all the planet - and if that place breaks down, then it pulls the rest of the world down along with it. Pharmaceuticals are the best exmaple, but there also are others.

Also, this will help to boost resistence to Chinese economic conquest.

August

03-07-20, 11:34 AM

Onkel Neal

03-07-20, 11:49 AM

I think that's true, there should be antibodies in the system that will show previous exposure.

Mr Quatro

03-07-20, 12:06 PM

REPORT: NBA, Spurs told to prepare to play games without fans, only 'essential personnel'

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/report-nba-spurs-told-to-prepare-to-play-games-without-fans-only-essential-personnel?fbclid=IwAR3EQNPwpAJW1Pe2K6bZlv-fUL7aLJFY4grCNAsx9lwh7He0Cs_rpaEe61Y

SAN ANTONIO - The Spurs are reportedly preparing to play games in front of no one, other than essential personnel.

According to a report from Sham Charania with The Athletic, the NBA sent a memo to franchises saying they should prepare to play games without fans. The memo allegedly also asked teams to identify what was called "essential staff" present for the games.

This comes amid the coronavirus outbreak.

Rockstar

03-07-20, 12:14 PM

A sobering analysis of how coronavirus is likely to impact the US healthcare system suggests that hospitals will be quickly overwhelmed with patients, and that all available beds will be filled by around May 8th if the virus tracks with Italy's figures and 10% of patients require an ICU.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/all-hospital-beds-us-will-be-filled-coronavirus-patients-about-may-8th-according-analysis

We’re looking at about 1M US cases by the end of April, 2M by ~May 5, 4M by ~May 11, and so on. Exponentials are hard to grasp, but this is how they go. This, its why I decided to quit my job and self-isolate, one more bed available for someone who needs it. Fortunately I can afford too as well. Also one reason why I think testing would be a waste of time and money since we already know it never was contained to begin with. We are also already aware of the infection rates and can from that and other information extrapolate the number of infected in the U.S. already.

Get your rest Buddahaid, take care of your body and mind its your best defense. If this article has any merit you are going to be busy

Jeff-Groves

03-07-20, 02:45 PM

Had some Guy knock on my door about something.
1st thing he did was offer his hand for a shake.
I told him I don't shake hands with the Corona virus going around.
Better safe then sorry!

mapuc

03-07-20, 05:07 PM

REPORT: NBA, Spurs told to prepare to play games without fans, only 'essential personnel'

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/report-nba-spurs-told-to-prepare-to-play-games-without-fans-only-essential-personnel?fbclid=IwAR3EQNPwpAJW1Pe2K6bZlv-fUL7aLJFY4grCNAsx9lwh7He0Cs_rpaEe61Y

This has already happened here in Denmark.

Yesterday the Danish government ask officials not to play/act and other things if those events gather 1000 or more people.

This has made the Danish topdivision and first division to play their games without spectators throughout this month March.
So even in other sports (ice hockey, handball and so on)

The annual Danish Grand Prix(where singers or group of singers try to get to the European Grandprix-was transmitted today on national tv...without any spectators.

Markus

mapuc

03-07-20, 05:10 PM

Well if there is a test to tell whether you have it now then there should also be a way to tell if you had it before no?

If my memory do me right, then it can be done.

In an issue on Swedish tv some weeks ago a Doctor said on Norwegian tv(which Swedish news program showed)

Their equipment is so fine tuned they even can discover dead Corona virus.

Markus

em2nought

03-07-20, 05:12 PM

Had some Guy knock on my door about something.
1st thing he did was offer his hand for a shake.
I told him I don't shake hands with the Corona virus going around.
Better safe then sorry!

The Physicians Assistant on the routine follow up appointment that I couldn't convince my mother she could just call in since she had no problems tried to shake my hand. I told him we just wave now with a flourish toward the head, almost like a salute. :D Dealing with a "strong willed" 94 year old during a hurricane sucks, and I'm pretty sure it's going to suck during a pandemic too.

Another problem I've already realized is that laying in supplies leads to increased "eating" by me. Apparently my willpower sucks donkey balls.

Oh, and there was a guy coughing in the waiting room during that unnecessary appointment, just great! Woohoo! grrrrrrrrr I should probably get all my ducks in a row, just in case. updated will, burial plans, try to get all the broke @sses that owe me money to pay up, Trump donations, etc. ;)

Jeff-Groves

03-07-20, 05:16 PM

I'm adopting this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcTI0pdBPc

Rockstar

03-07-20, 05:28 PM

In case you missed it.

Why South Korea's death rate is now at 0.6% and in the U.S. its 5.0%

Might add too in the U.S. people 65 years and older make up 16% percent of the population. These are the ones at the highest risk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeh054-Hx1U

Traveller

03-07-20, 06:09 PM

AIPAC says at least two people at DC conference attended by VP Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and various Congressmen have tested positive for coronavirus.
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/24/bernie-sanders-aipac-conference/4854812002/) told conference attendees, some of whom include lawmakers, that at least two conference-goers have tested positive for coronavirus.The pro-Israel lobbying group said in an updated statement to attendees, speakers, administration and Capitol Hill offices on Friday that the two individuals affected traveled from New York to Washington, D.C. to attend the March 1-3 conference.

"We have continued to remain in constant communication with the Westchester County Health Department and the DC Health Department which is coordinating with the New York Health Department, and national health authorities," the AIPAC statement reads.

Attendees and speakers at the conference included Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., former 2020 Democratic candidate Mike Bloomberg, former candidate Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., and several other lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle.

The group's website says that more than about 18,000 people attend its conference from across the country, and that two-thirds of Congress participate.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/06/coronavirus-aipac-tells-lawmakers-participants-two-attendees-have-covid-19/4979822002/

Lock down Washington, D.C.! :D

70 Life Care Center nursing home employees in Kirkland, Washington now showing symptoms.Seventy employees at the Life Care Center in Kirkland, Washington, are showing symptoms of novel coronavirus, according to Tim Killian, spokesperson for the facility.

There were 180 staff members employed at Life Care Center as of February 19.

Employees showing symptoms have been asked not to return to work, Killian said at a briefing on Saturday.

There were 120 residents at the facility on February 19, 54 residents have since been transferred to various hospitals, Killian said.

All current residents are confined to their rooms, Killian added.Italy confirms 1,247 new coronavirus cases on Saturday.Italy saw a dramatic increase in the number of confirmed coronavirus cases today with a rise of 1,247 in a single day, the Civil Protection Department said in a statement.

The country now has a total of 5,883 cases. The death toll also continues to climb with 36 fatalities reported on Saturday.
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Italy to lock down entire region of Lombardi, plus 11 provinces.The Italian government plans to lock down travel in and out of Lombardy due to the coronavirus, according to a draft decree reviewed by CNBC. Lombardy is a region of 10 million people in northern Italy which is home to Milan, the nation’s financial hub.

The Italian government also plans travel lockdowns in 11 provinces, including Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio nell’Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro and Urbino, Venice, Padua, Treviso, Asti and Alessandria.

According to the draft decree, people should “absolutely avoid” travel to these areas except in emergency situations.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/07/coronavirus-live-updates-pope-cancels-large-public-appearances-as-cases-surge-in-europe.html

This is war.

Onkel Neal

03-07-20, 06:50 PM

https://i.redd.it/jtn39r416cl41.jpg

Jeff-Groves

03-07-20, 07:03 PM

This is war.
Imagine if all of us were as worried about spreading the common cold and flu.
The real Spanish Inquisition was the Spanish flu!

Traveller

03-07-20, 07:19 PM

Imagine if all of us were as worried about spreading the common cold and flu.
The real Spanish Inquisition was the Spanish flu!
We can only hope that if and when this is all over, people will continue to wash their hands, thus lowering the number of cold and flu infections.

By the way, that man I mentioned earlier in Hiroshima, Japan who finally tested positive actually went to 4 different hospitals for a total of 8 times before they agreed to perform the test! I cannot even imagine how many people he infected. Most hospitals here still refuse or are unable to test most people with symptoms for coronavirus (even if they have a fever or breathing difficulties and test negative for influenza), and this same situation is happening every day all over Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3etuaYTDwFI

Mr Quatro

03-07-20, 08:28 PM

Traveller

03-07-20, 08:47 PM

So the real fear is not thinking your going to die from this flu
The real fear right now is in the contracting the flu
Then you have to be isolated costing your job even perhaps,
But most people recover :yep:I think another problem most people don't consider is all of the indirect deaths this virus will cause, because once hospitals become overwhelmed (and they all will), the number of people dying from other health problems due to not being able to get proper treatment will greatly increase. And let's not forget the coming shortages of prescription drugs and PPE (personal protective equipment).

Meanwhile... Trump says "not concerned at all” as virus impacts CPAC, DC.“I’m not concerned at all.”

That was President Donald Trump's response to reporters who asked if he was worried about being exposed to coronavirus after an attendee at CPAC, which he had been to, tested positive for the virus and Washington, DC announced a presumptive positive case.

The President was also asked if he would consider canceling political rallies with the virus spreading, but he said no.

“We’ll have tremendous rallies. We’re doing very well. We’ve done a fantastic job, with respect to that subject, on the virus,” Trump said.
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-08-20-intl-hnk/index.html

There were actually at least two attendees that tested positive, but who's counting? :dead:

Traveller

03-07-20, 09:12 PM

This Pittsburgh news broadcast from February 8 was already talking about the coming product shortages in the US due to China shutting everything down. They were way ahead of the curve. Good reporting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu_x0Lg8GyU

US Marine in DC area tests positive.A U.S. Marine in Washington D.C. has tested positive for the new coronavirus, according to the Pentagon.

Pentagon spokesman Jonathon Hoffman said in a tweet that the Marine recently returned from official travel overseas.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-live-updates-china-reports-44-new-cases-us-cases-top-400.html

China cannot explain death of 'cured’ coronavirus patient. A Chinese woman named Wang Mei is demanding to know why her “cured” husband died of the coronavirus five days after he was released from a Wuhan medical center.

The death of 36-year-old Li Liang prompted clinics across the city to stop discharging patients, while hospitals in other parts of China are reporting an unsettling number of relapses and re-infections.

Li Liang was diagnosed with the coronavirus on February 4 and admitted to one of Wuhan’s improvised virus hospitals on February 12. On February 26, he was released after testing negative for two days, his fever seemingly cleared up, although scans showed massive damage to his lungs from the infection.

As per regulations, Li was relocated to a quarantine center in a local hotel for 14 days of isolation and observation. He began complaining of renewed symptoms on February 28 and was too weak to stand by March 2. The doctors attributed his weakness to “stress” and refused to let his wife see him.

Li was back in the hospital by the afternoon of March 2 and dead by sundown. He died in his wife’s arms, telling her that he wanted to go home. She said she wept over his body for hours until a funeral home collected his remains.

Wang Mei told the South China Morning Post (SCMP) on Friday that she has been calling local government officials every day looking for an explanation of her husband’s death.

“He only had a low temperature when he was admitted, only just a bit of coughing. In hospital, he took herbal medicine twice a day. Later he even became a volunteer at the hospital, moving supplies,” she said.

Doctors consulted by the SCMP said the CAT scan showing damage to Li’s lungs three days before he was released was concerning but not proof that his coronavirus infection had returned.https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/03/06/china-cannot-explain-death-of-cured-coronavirus-patient/

Only 36 years old and massive damage to the lungs from the infection before dying.

Buddahaid

03-07-20, 09:32 PM

I pulled the trigger on ordering my new desktop PC earlier today. I've been delaying for almost a year but figured now was a good time before stock started running low.

Nothing crazy since I don't game much anymore but good for CAD software which I do use.

CASE Fractal Core 2300
PS 500W EVGA
MB ASUS H370M-PLUS/CSM MATX
CPU I5-9600KF 3.7G 6CORE NOGPU
DDR4-2666 32GB KIT (2X6)
HDD SSD SAMSUNG 1TB M.2 860
CD DVD RW BLURAY
SW WIN 10 PRO 64 (oem)
FAN CPU S115X BXTS15A
VID GF GTX 1660 6GB

Commander Wallace

03-07-20, 09:42 PM

Traveller

03-07-20, 10:44 PM

Great reporting on the information you have of late. :yep:Thanks! I was going to post all 6,000,000,000 infections as they happened, but decided against it. :D

Well, it's now official. Italy locks down 25% of her population (15 million people).
Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced early Sunday that the entire region of Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown as the coronavirus continued to spread throughout the country.

The new measures will apply to about a quarter of the Italian population and will be in force at least until April 3.

In the middle of the night, Conte signed a decree that imposes new restrictions to the movement of people in the region of Lombardy and in a number of northern provinces. The entry and exit to and from these areas will be allowed only in exceptional cases.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-live-updates-china-reports-44-new-cases-us-cases-top-400.html

Details of the Italian lock-down decree draft:
The text of the draft proposal – sent to CNN by the press office of the Lombardy regional authority – says that people in Lombardy and other 11 provinces should "absolutely avoid any movement into and out (of) ... as well as within the same territories ... except for travel motivated by unavoidable working needs or situations of emergency."

The draft says the police, the fire brigade and armed forces could be used to enforce these measures:

- Schools and universities being suspended until April 3.

- All sporting events in those regions being suspended, with the exception of professional events. No spectators would be allowed at professional events.

- People in places of prayer standing 1 meter away from each other.

- Bars and restaurants enforcing social distancing.

- Medical staff not being allowed to take a leave of absence.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-08-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Onkel Neal

03-07-20, 11:53 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3etuaYTDwFI

Good post. Very matter of fact conclusions.

If anyone has not seen this, Check in at 14:17 and watch the next 9 minutes.

Maybe this will wake some people up. :o

Undeserved panic does no one any good. But neither does ill-informed complacency.

Traveller

03-08-20, 12:23 AM

Good post. Very matter of fact conclusions.

If anyone has not seen this, Check in at 14:17 and watch the next 9 minutes.

Maybe this will wake some people up. :o

Yeah, that part of the video particularly caught my attention. The math doesn't lie. Scary stuff.

Onkel Neal

03-08-20, 12:35 AM

4:25 p.m: Minnesota reports first coronavirus case
5:20 p.m: First coronavirus case in Oklahoma
6:35 p.m: Connecticut reveals first coronavirus case
7:18 p.m: First coronavirus case in Kentucky reported
8:05 p.m: Nebraska reports first coronavirus case

https://www.glocktalk.com/attachments/tenor-gif.712506/

Buddahaid

03-08-20, 12:42 AM

Yeah. :haha: That fit's but rest assured it will be all Mike Pense's fault. I'm curious as to how the 8.3 billion will be spent if there's nothing to buy?

Rufus Shinra

03-08-20, 01:26 AM

I somehow expect reports about the first cases detected in the ISS and in a few dozen submarines because why the hell not at this point.

Traveller

03-08-20, 03:09 AM

1/3 of residents in a South Korean apartment block contract coronavirus.A South Korean apartment complex is under lockdown after one third of its residents became infected with the novel coronavirus in the city of Daegu, according to the Korean Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC).

Of the 140 residents in the two apartment buildings, 94 are members of the Shincheonji religious group, Daegu Mayor Kwon Young-jin said on Saturday. The apartment complex is to be under quarantine, he added.

So far, 46 residents have been confirmed to have the virus, 80 have tested negative and the remaining 14 are being tested, KCDC said.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-08-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Jimbuna

03-08-20, 06:49 AM

Coronavirus: UK maps and charts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

Jimbuna

03-08-20, 06:51 AM

Anyone wondering what the situation in North Korea may be like?

https://time.com/5797770/north-korea-releases-foreigners-coronavirus-quarantine/

Skybird

03-08-20, 07:23 AM

Good post. Very matter of fact conclusions.

If anyone has not seen this, Check in at 14:17 and watch the next 9 minutes.

Maybe this will wake some people up. :o
I assume its the same in Europe and Germany, in principle at least. over here in Germany, reality-denial and trying to appease mathemtics still is the politicians daily hobby, especially the Germans so far stem themselves against getting restrictive and contorlling the borders. Whenever a measure gets mejtioned, the health ministre immediately is there, saying that it should not be done for this and that reason, and he has a hige fan club of officials who fall into the chorus as soon as he has stopped talking. But that guy is a extraordinary dud anyway.

People should understand this: preparing for the shortages in supplies means to also consider production shutdowns that could last for weeks and months. Which means supplies will not be delayed, but will not come for weeks and months. And that can include anything that you usually do not mind for in your household. Chemicals used to produce household cleaners for exmaple: if your country you live in produces them itself, good, but if said country depends on importing chemical key ingredients from China, or another country that gets heabily hit by the pandemic, you are screwed. Traffgic will be hit and crews will end up in quarantine, too, you know. Correction, traffic already is hit.

Preparing reserves means a bit more than just canned food and water.

Skybird

03-08-20, 07:27 AM

Anyone wondering what the situation in North Korea may be like?

https://time.com/5797770/north-korea-releases-foreigners-coronavirus-quarantine/
Sounds like they are starting a first strike with biological weapons...

Jimbuna

03-08-20, 08:46 AM

Sounds like they are starting a first strike with biological weapons...

I find it hard to give credibility to much that comes out of China these days but a great deal less for that coming out of North Korea.

Mr Quatro

03-08-20, 08:49 AM

Lets face it this is just the early days of this Covid-19 with not enough data to prove anything except that older people are more variable than the young.

Look at this report from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/world/coronavirus-news.html#link-5809734f

In California, only 516 tests had been conducted as of Thursday. Health officials in Washington State have more cases than they can process. In New York City, officials have pleaded for more test kits from the C.D.C.

The whole report puts Trump and Pence in a bad light of what is really being done, but come on man only 516 test have even been done in the state of California with all of those still on a cruise ship headed for Oakland, Ca Monday morning. The data is going to increase with the oldest dying first as in South Korea, Japan and Italy. :yep:

Rufus Shinra

03-08-20, 08:59 AM

Mr Quatro

03-08-20, 09:06 AM

Some actual good news, people. China has massively increased the production of masks, as in 'more than one hundred millions per day' now, and is already sending hundreds of thousands for free to the countries that sent some of their reserves to them last month. With the epidemic apparently under control there, I find it reassuring to see them taking an industrial leadership role.

Plus remember those two (2) new hospitals China put up in record time?

They have already closed down one of them :yep:

This is why the present day data doesn't make sense

Only 516 test have been conducted in the state of California (untill the Diamond Princes cruise ship docks monday)

But look at this report in the LA Times :o: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-08/grand-princess-cruise-ship-to-dock-in-oakland-some-passengers-quarantine-in-san-antonio

At least 433 coronavirus cases have been confirmed across the U.S., including about 90 in California.

Rufus Shinra

03-08-20, 09:14 AM

Plus remember those two (2) new hospitals China put up in record time?

They have already closed down one of them :yep:

This is why the present day data doesn't make sense

Only 516 test have been conducted in the state of California (untill the Diamond Princes cruise ship docks monday)

But look at this report in the LA Times :o: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-08/grand-princess-cruise-ship-to-dock-in-oakland-some-passengers-quarantine-in-san-antonio

At least 433 coronavirus cases have been confirmed across the U.S., including about 90 in California.
Still, China appears to have the under control, even if there are new contaminations. Plus, they can probably build five hospitals for each one that needs to be closed. At the moment, they look like to have things relatively stabilized, and their political system allows a shift to a 'biowartime' economy that we need right now rather than whenever Trump will start coughing and feels like convincing 'healing prayers' crowds to tell their Big Pharma backers to off.

Skybird

03-08-20, 12:13 PM

Good post. Very matter of fact conclusions.

If anyone has not seen this, Check in at 14:17 and watch the next 9 minutes.

Maybe this will wake some people up. :o
Those ten minutes are pure gold, summarizing what it is about. Thanks for posting. germany is ahead the US by some weeks, we will learn soon enough.

Rockstar

03-08-20, 03:14 PM

I heard they'll be offering testing to the general population very soon. All anyone has to do is wait in the same designated room and mingle with people you dont know. Nurses in encapsulated suits will come by and swab your nostrils and throat. If you dont have COVID-19 when you first entered the facility you probably will afterwards and your test will come back negative.

Come to think about its one of the ways its been suggested people get the flu right after getting a vaccination.

Mr Quatro

03-08-20, 03:22 PM

Skybird

03-08-20, 03:55 PM

Right now it seems to be difficult to be tested in Germany. Testing capacities in labs are working at the absolute max limit, there are only so and so many machines, and additional shifts thus will not do much to chnage the situation.This will become much, much worse in coming days and weeks.

Doctors and hospitals will have separate entrances for Corona patients and those suspecting to be one. These people will not be allowed to enter, but will ring a bell and wait outside, and get tested outside. Sometimes this even works like this description

At least thats the theory the media describe.

Today a woman I know told me of her husband who works in a hospital in the Saarland. He said that even on the children oncology station the boss doctor was positively tested, worked without protective masks or suits and that nurses do not have masks and suits as well and so could be - and most likly will be infected now as well, also that there is not enough staff. This staff should be in quaran tione. instead they keep on working on a children oncology station to keep the basic support running. For children with immune-repressing medication (chemo therapy), this is a play with fire and could mean their death sentence.

Politicians thought themselves to be so clever when they started to reorganise and plan German health care years ago. First they blew the insurrance system up over decades, then they tried to cap the costs, and after two state-planned interventions of this dimension it now is pretty much an eroded hull with a shiny surface. It led to just one thing: dramatic shortages in underpayed and overworked staff and mercilessly milking patients for costly treatments that with their diseases, ages or prospects are pointless, but bring money to the hospital's treasury. Treating patients means: refining ore (pateints) to get the final product: cash. In Germany, you better do not need to go to hospital. And that does not even include the third-world level hygienics standards in many houses. When Germans go to a Dutch hospital, say in holidays, they get fully isolated and checked thoroughly, because they are Germans coming from the dark country, you see. However, Corona has the potential to break the often applauded Dutch system as well. It will bring down every health system in the West, I think.

Needless to say, my friend was foaming and fuming: her husband is sneezing, she is ill with an infection, and so is her daughter who first had an influenza and now a "non-identified" virus infection, ill since three weeks. And they do not even tell her whether the medical tests they went through induced testing for Corona.

The system already now is at breaking point, it was systematically eroded in the past years, depleted and saved down like the Bundeswehr, schools, and train and bridge infrastructure. The state media do a wonderful job of hiding it from the public.

Skybird

03-08-20, 03:59 PM

I think they should train Fedex and UPS drivers to test us for Covid-19 they are out there everyday anyway :yep:
Good excuse why you want to shoot them if they approach you! :D

Serious. German DHL since some days offers advise on mailing parcel deliverers permission to put down the parcel in a described place so that there must not be a personal contact. Saw this the first time early last week. Before Corona, this was offered for locked special delivery boxes only, or you had to name a neighbour.

I think they fear that they sooner or later run thin on drivers. Goping from housedoor to housedoor these days is risky.

Skybird

03-08-20, 04:26 PM

agesspiegel reports the Academica Sinica, Taiwan's Science Academy, has developed a quick test for Covid-19 that gives the result after just 15 minutes. So they should have claimed oin their Facebook site.

If true, it remains to be seen whether the international ban of Taiwan from international organisations and data exchange programs (due to the appeasement policy towards Bejing that is named One-China policy) gets being held up or int he face of the seirous situaiton will get ignored - and how Bejiong will react to that.

Meanwhile it seems that the Japanese reluctancy to run any tests at all is owed to their hope that if they do not produce any test results, this will make a statistic of only a few cases - and so the Olympic games could be saved for Japan. Criminal acting, I call that. Of course the IOC ius a cirnmnal gang of coprrutpo gangsters as well, and so it somehiow matches., But I think this enraging policy should not be rewarded and Western policy makers should rule to boycot the Japanese games anyway, no matter how it is going in coming wereks and months. Because Tokyo's policy walks over dead bodies. Something they have in common with Bejing.

Onkel Neal

03-08-20, 04:32 PM

https://i.redd.it/3ebhe4r1hel41.jpg

Traveller

03-08-20, 05:23 PM

Italy confirms 1,492 new cases on Sunday. 133 new deaths.There has been a rise in coronavirus deaths in Italy, with 133 new fatalities announced Sunday.

There are now 366 coronavirus deaths nationwide, according to Italy’s Civil Protection.

Confirmed cases have jumped to 7,375 total in the country; an increase by 1,492 cases since Saturday, according to Italy’s Civil Protection.
United Kingdom confirms 67 new cases on Sunday.The United Kingdom has recorded 67 new coronavirus cases, bringing its total to 273. https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-08-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Mr Quatro

03-08-20, 05:32 PM

This of course about what Italy is doing to curb Covid-19, but what if your country was inserted in the blanks?

Will it work?

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/03/italy-coronavirus-covid19-west-europe-future/607660/

Other Western countries are watching closely, worried they may soon have to follow Italy’s lead.

Rome placed severe travel restrictions on the entire Lombardy region surrounding Milan—the country’s economic, fashion, and media capital—and on 14 other provinces
across the wealthy north, including Venice and parts of the Emilia Romagna region.

In this area of 16 million people, the coronavirus’s European epicenter, where the number of cases has been rising rapidly,

________ banned all public gatherings—no weddings, funerals, concerts, sporting events, discos, bingo games, video arcades,
or Mass—until April 3. While trains and planes are still operational, and running on time, the government is forbidding people from leaving unless absolutely necessary.

Restaurants and bars can open but only from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., and only if they can ensure three feet of space between each guest.

Nationwide, the government ordered the closure of all cinemas, theaters, concert halls, libraries, and museums, as well as the quarantine of anyone with a fever
above 37.5 degrees Celsius (99.5 degrees Fahrenheit), and anyone who’s tested positive for the virus.

Last week, __________ closed all schools, day-care facilities, and universities, until mid-March at the earliest. Pope Francis, who has been fighting a cold,
delivered his weekly Angelus message on Sunday via video from a Vatican library, not, as is typical, from a window overlooking Saint Peter’s Square.
“I’ll use a strong expression,” Francis said. “This pope is caged in the library.”

These steps are dramatic, and have caused significant uncertainty and growing panic across _________.

They are also quite confusing, and how they’ll even be enforced remains unclear.

mapuc

03-08-20, 05:44 PM

Let see if I can get this right or if I can get it correct in writing.

Some of you mentioned flu and something with 25 or 35 million American got it last year or this year and 25000 or was it 35000 American died from this flu-infection.

If this is correct then I must say this corona is way more dangerous.

The percentage you get if do the math of how many got the flu and who died from it is very low less then 0.2 %

Corona have about 3.0-3.3 % death ratio.

Furthermore Flu is not contagious during its Incubation which this corona is and from all I have heard about this corona is... it seems a lot more contagious than our classic flu.

Be free to correct me if I'm wrong

Markus

em2nought

03-08-20, 06:01 PM

So I ordered a pet door I'm going to be installing at face height on my office door. LOL We'll call it a poor man's bank teller window. I should probably place a little shelf outside the door for some hand sanitizer too.

The window will also solve the problem of my business partner complaining about my messy office being the first thing customers see. :up:

I'm starting to think about wearing a mask. :hmmm:

Traveller

03-08-20, 07:14 PM

White House overruled CDC, official says. Did not warn older Americans against flying.The White House overruled health officials who wanted to recommend that elderly and physically fragile Americans be advised not to fly on commercial airlines because of the new coronavirus, a federal official told The Associated Press.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention submitted the plan as a way of trying to control the virus, but White House officials ordered the air travel recommendation be removed, said the official who had direct knowledge of the plan. Trump administration officials have since suggested certain people should consider not traveling, but have stopped short of the stronger guidance sought by the CDC.
Profits over safety.

‘Life can’t stop,’ US surgeon general says, as presidential campaigns move forward.In response to a question about whether presidential candidates should stop traveling amid the outbreak, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams told CNN’s “State of the Union” that “life can’t stop.” He added that the containment measures China has taken to curb the spread of the virus are “draconian.”'Draconian' measures are the only way to stop the spread. This attitude is exactly why the virus is going to impact the US and other countries much worse than China. By the time they realize their mistakes, it will be far too late.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-live-updates-grand-princess-to-disembark-passengers.html

August

03-08-20, 07:22 PM

Profits over safety.

Have you seen the Democratic field lately? If Trump tried to prevent old people from flying he would be accused of campaign interference.

Buddahaid

03-08-20, 09:07 PM

This epidemic will end up being what he's remembered for. Let's see if he can step up. I imagine a lot of that 8.3 billion will be awarded in contracts to people he wants to influence. Let's wait and see if I'm wrong.

Meanwhile, the first PUI patient is checked into my hospital.

Onkel Neal

03-08-20, 09:31 PM

It's clear containment has failed. The US never had a chance, our culture would not allow us to shut off traffic into the country, and the government and CDC screwed up royally, even though they had 6 weeks notice. Chickens, meet roost.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/08/u-s-response-to-the-covid-19-coronavirus-moves-from-containment-to-mitigation/

Traveller

03-08-20, 09:37 PM

Have you seen the Democratic field lately? If Trump tried to prevent old people from flying he would be accused of campaign interference.Then that means he cares more about being re-elected than protecting the American people.

It's clear containment has failed. The US never had a chance, our culture would not allow us to shut off traffic into the country, and the government and CDC screwed up royally, even though they had 6 weeks notice. Chickens, meet roost. Exactly. 6 weeks ago was their last chance for containment and mitigation, but they chose to downplay and ignore it. Now the hammer is about to drop hard, and there isn't a darn thing they can do to stop it.

Buddahaid

03-08-20, 09:45 PM

Well today I read the second F1 race this season in Bahrain will be held without spectators and Shanghai has already cancelled their race some weeks ago. Sports in general will get cancelled this year and the economy will tank. Here's Johnny!

Traveller

03-08-20, 10:06 PM

Infected 25 year-old Briton talks about what his symptoms were like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU2ut5Ark3Q

Note that he is a healthy 25-year-old and his pneumonia severely affected his health, causing serious breathing problems and hospitalization. So the next time someone says 'only 3.5% die from the virus, and it mostly affects people over 70', I'm going to slap them.

This virus can and does seriously affect younger people, too. And even if you do catch pneumonia but don't die from it, it can permanently damage and scar the lungs if severe enough- regardless of age.

I've had pneumonia with breathing difficulties, and it's no joke. Please take care of your health and stay safe, everyone.

Rockstar

03-08-20, 10:29 PM

Apparently you didn't get the memo

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Screen-Shot-2020-02-25-at-4.09.41-PM.png

Then regardless of ones age there are pre-existing conditions which can also have an affect.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Screen-Shot-2020-02-25-at-4.11.23-PM.png

Traveller

03-08-20, 10:30 PM

Interview with the US Surgeon General.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nYHBlwgU9A

Dr. Ben Carson, secretary of Housing and Urban Development / member of the US government coronovirus task force: 'This virus is like other viruses' and 'it should be treated the same way.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfrYGLbWoM

Prepping for the coming shortages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lRxYEKQuew

Buddahaid

03-08-20, 10:33 PM

Well he does have the option so why not, and indeed he should.

Traveller

03-08-20, 11:52 PM

Arizona Republican Rep. Paul Gosar and Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz under self-quarantine after coming in contact with infected person.
Arizona Republican Rep. Paul Gosar and Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz announced Sunday that they are both self-quarantining after coming into contact with an individual at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/07/politics/cpac-coronavirus-tested-positive/index.html) who later tested positive for the virus.

Gosar: The congressman said he was with the infected individual for "an extended period of time" and the two of them shook hands several times.

“I am not currently experiencing any symptoms, nor is any member of my staff. However, in order to prevent any potential transmission, I will remain at my home in Arizona until the conclusion of the 14 day period following my interaction with this individual,” Gosar said in a statement.

Gosar said he has been in contact with the House physician, and said that he is closing his Washington office this week “out of an abundance of caution.”

Cruz: The senator also said in a statement that his exposure to the individual had consisted of "a brief conversation and a handshake."

Cruz said he is “not experiencing any symptoms,” but that he will stay in Texas for 14 days “out of an abundance of caution.”Quantico US Marine Corps base in Viriginia at 'code yellow' after a Marine on the base tests positive for the coronavirus. The Code Yellow status authorizes unscheduled leave, while “mission essential” personnel are expected to report to work.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-08-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Panic shopping in Los Angeles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsF6ezLOMC4

Panic shopping fight over toilet paper in Australia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVHYTdGUAZM
Wait until there are food and medicine shortages... for possibly months... :gulp:

Traveller

03-09-20, 04:14 AM

Germany confirms 256 new cases, bringing their national total to 1,112.The country has been seeing big daily spikes -- cases increased by nearly 200 from Saturday to Sunday, raising the national total to 847 at the time.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-09-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Skybird

03-09-20, 06:30 AM

I just red a piece on a findign that the new virus seems to be complicated by a paradoxical effect you sometimes find in virusses when developing vaccines. They said that the antibodies formed to battle Covid 19 sometimes can paradoxically not battle against the germ, but increase the germ's destructive efficiency . People getting the vaccine and suffering from this effect would not jus get ill, but get hit by an unusually hard form of the disease.

Nice. :-?

Onkel Neal

03-09-20, 07:22 AM

Wait until there are food and medicine shortages... for possibly months... :gulp:

Sigh, this is why preppers do what they do, well ahead of any emergency. I'm not going to feel sorry for people who wait till the last minute and then panic.

Traveller

03-09-20, 07:52 AM

Sigh, this is why preppers do what they do, well ahead of any emergency. I'm not going to feel sorry for people who wait till the last minute and then panic.

Very true. Preppers have endured years of harassment and mockery from family, friends, and co-workers, but it now looks like the big one has hit and all those preparations will finally pay off. A common future conversation: "Excuse me, kind sir. Could you perhaps spare some beans, aspirin, or a roll of toilet paper?" ;)

Stock markets, bond yields, and oil prices are currently melting down. Safety circuit breakers expected to kick in, again. $9 trillion wiped out so far. Already worse than the 2008 crash.

Also, panic in northern Italy as masses of desperate citizens attempt to escape to the south before lockdown takes effect. Riots in at least 6 different prisons.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/italys-quarantine-provokes-panic-italian-stocks-plunge.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/sp-500-futures-are-frozen-after-tanking-5percent-heres-what-happens-when-circuit-breakers-kick-in.html

Portugal's president is under self-quarantine.The Portuguese president has self-quarantined himself after it was found that a class from a school with a student confirmed to have the coronavirus visited the presidential palace last week, according to a statement issued by his office. https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-09-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Jimbuna

03-09-20, 08:48 AM

Five new cases in Scotland takes UK total to 285

Skybird

03-09-20, 10:44 AM

Sigh, this is why preppers do what they do, well ahead of any emergency. I'm not going to feel sorry for people who wait till the last minute and then panic.
He who laughs last, laughs best. :yeah:

Better being a hysterical, anti-social but well-prepared character pig (German view), than a friendly unprepared sheep.

From this week on - and I feel I am already late, I should have done so already tow or three weeks ago, but maybe I am one of the lucky ones and escaped the invisible bullets already flying around - I run condition yellow. Not more than one supermarket visit per week, the rest of my needs will be serviced by my stockpiled reserves. Add two visits at the baker. Anything else: doctor prescritpions, charging up my bank account and so forth, has been done and completed, will not need expeditions into town for the next 4 months . I will leave the house, of course. But for tours in the countryside, cycling, and beiong alone, not for going into town, shopping or whatever.

Probabilities are against us, against everybody of us, by 1:2 or 1:3. But we may suffer less if it strikes us hard and we get ill, when it happens at a time when the first antidots, drugs and specific medications are on the market. After all, three weeks in bed with a bad flu still are three weeks in bed with a bad flu, I do not volunteer for that. Its not nice. Also, you do not want to need visiting the hospital in the coming months. You are likely to leave sicker than you arrived. IF you leave again.

Delaying it, is my plan. The rest is luck.

mapuc

03-09-20, 11:14 AM

if any would be interested.

Sweden 252 cases of Corona.
Denmark 59 cases of Corona.
Denmark toke a huge leap from yesterdays 35 cases

Edit
I don't know what have happened here in Denmark...until 17.30 there was as mentioned above 59 cases now there is 90 reported cases of Corona in Denmark..such leap in just a few hours.
End of edit

Markus

Rockstar

03-09-20, 12:07 PM

Canned foods might fly off the shelves. I figure fresh veggies will most likely always be available since I dont think a vast majority of people know what to do with them for the long term. I used this video to try canning my own soup. mmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CHjd_ondnw

Jimbuna

03-09-20, 12:29 PM

Fourth death confirmed in the UK, as number of cases rises to 319

Mr Quatro

03-09-20, 12:40 PM

Canned foods might fly off the shelves. I figure fresh veggies will most likely always be available since I dont think a vast majority of people dont know what to do with them for the long term. I used this video to try canning my own soup. mmmmm

That's good stuff Rockstar ... I have to admit that sometimes I like you and sometimes I don't, but I'm starting to like you a lot more :up:

I put off reading or watching the news this morning, but by the time I did I'm starting to get mad at this administration. Reading the New York Times doesn't help of course :D

Bottom line is that the USA does not have enough testing kits for Covid-19 out there in the general public (I know the VA doesn't have them I've been there)

When the so called one million test kits are made available the one percent rule comes into effect exposing the 10,000 cases of Covid-19 already out there and have been since February :o

NBC News analyzed media and official reports on more than 150 coronavirus deaths. This is an early sample

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/we-analyzed-more-150-coronavirus-deaths-here-s-what-we-n1151666

NBC News collected 167 reports published from Jan. 23 to March 3 on coronavirus deaths in mainland China, Hong Kong, the Philippines and the United States. Most of the victims were older: 128 of were 65 years or older, eight were under 35

104 were men, 63 were women.

Health data was available for 116 cases. Of those, 114 had underlying health conditions.

Death from the coronavirus is caused by respiratory failure brought on by pneumonia

“Once you get into acute respiratory distress syndrome, it's about how well can your body handle the stress

There is no treatment available for the coronavirus. All health care personnel can do is treat symptoms, including giving medications to treat the fever and cough associated with the illness ... :yep:

Sometimes people experience complications, and need extra care, such as breathing assistance, ventilators or even extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO)

While the coronavirus has spread quickly, 4 of 5 patients who develop the disease recover without needing special treatment, statistics from the World Health Organization show

I have a pantry that will now get me through to early April, but not enough medical supplies yet to self treat anything (working on that one)

I have been using Wal-Mart's two (2) day delivery for basic supplies, plus a lot cheaper than my small valley stores for paper towels etc. and they always arrive on time, but now the two (2) days has become five (5) and some items even (9) days.

Don't be afraid, don't panic, be ready, things you would already use next month go ahead and get now.

You know why all of those quarantined people from the one million test kits being administered too have family and friends and they are going to be ordering too. :yep:

Rockstar

03-09-20, 12:57 PM

I like you too Mr. Quatro. Heck, I'll even let you have a few rolls of my toilet paper. :03::D:)

Jimbuna

03-09-20, 01:19 PM

I like you too Mr. Quatro. Heck, I'll even let have a few rolls of my toilet paper. :03::D:)

https://i.postimg.cc/P5Y2h2dD/85205728-10218770762194997-9053585167825764352-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Catfish

03-09-20, 01:36 PM

"Raiders of the last toilet roll" :haha:

Mr Quatro

03-09-20, 01:47 PM

I like you too Mr. Quatro. Heck, I'll even let you have a few rolls of my toilet paper. :03::D:)

That's mighty white of you Rockstar ... :up:
uh, you are white, right? :D

But I use cheap paper towels from fear of the great American break through :o

Rockstar

03-09-20, 02:09 PM

Yes, but I mostly identify as a certain Asterias Forbesii a.k.a. Patrick Starfish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Djq1TfuY2o

Rockstar

03-09-20, 03:24 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm7UrZeu-74

Catfish

03-09-20, 03:43 PM

I am not sure whether i understand how it all works (edit: i do not understand at all lol). I remember Aden(os)in, Guanine, Thymine, Cytosine and Uracil from school as being the basic components of DNA and/or RNA, also that this is how our DNA (genetic infornation) came to be - it was initially formed by viruses that were incorporated, and used for the reproduction code.

But i have no idea what the "arrest" of some of those bases means here :hmmm:

Rufus Shinra

03-09-20, 04:27 PM

The entirety of Italy is now quarantined.

Buddahaid

03-09-20, 04:32 PM

The Dublin, CA St. Patrick's Day fair has just been cancelled.

Skybird

03-09-20, 04:38 PM

Germany still targets this by means it had thought to have learned from the financial crisis 2007 ff - and by that logic terribly fails to recongise the biological-medical-mathematical dimension of it.

Utmost total and complete failure (or capitulation, I dont know). Or better: reality-denial. Federal states openly object measures demanded by the federal health ministry that would put restrictions on movement-related civil liberties, public schools and kindergardens, travelling. I know form first hand reports of people in four cities across all of germany now that the cities stumble clueless and blindly into the midst of what is coming at them, regarding preparation for the medical dimension of it all. Equipment and supplies are missing, missing, and once again missing. travel restrictions will come nation-wide anyway, inevitably - but not before politicians made sure that the plague has thoroughly spread already.

Have switched to batteries today and went into a dive for the ground. I do not plan to surface any time soon in the coming 8 weeks at least.

What it reminds me of? A house of cards that is crumbling. Moral absolute demands for the world. Absolute socialist regime at home. Costs money. Econoym has somehow to foot the bill for all that. And now comes Mr. Corona and blows a mild wind in the direction of banks and businesses, and all those claims and megalomianc dreams are flying off into the sky - that well-founded and well rooted and substantially solid and anchored in sustainable realities the spending model was.

This is not even a really nasty virus!

Rockstar

03-09-20, 04:50 PM

Have switched to batteries today and went into a dive for the ground. I do not plan to surface any time soon in the coming 8 weeks at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P0mXOjKBk

em2nought

03-09-20, 05:07 PM

I went to Tractor Supply and bought some "fish" antibiotics today. I don't have any fish. :03:

Skybird

03-09-20, 05:22 PM

I went to Tractor Supply and bought some "fish" antibiotics today. I don't have any fish. :03:
You will soon have gills instead! :D

GT182

03-09-20, 05:52 PM

mapuc

03-09-20, 06:07 PM

Mr Quatro

03-09-20, 06:12 PM

I heard that this was made by the Chinese military as a germ warfare weapon.... that "accidentally" got out of containment... or was let loose on purpose. In either case we'll never know the full truth.

That's one of the first rumors I heard too, but it turned out to be false media.

Now the rumor is that the CIA (our CIA) invented the virus due to anger at China, but that rumor has been traced back via Facebook to a group headed by the Russians.

They actually get people to believe whatever seeds they plant and the Russians have had some limited success in their operations.

The other seed thought has been that marketing of live animals caused the disease in the first place. You know snakes, bats, those dragon looking things.

Which has been going since the caveman days and is a little hard for me to accept that theory, but my boss had another insight that the animals for sale in the market place
of Wuhan China were actually from a lab in Wuhan that had been experimenting on the animals and when the usefulness of the animal was over they didn't kill them,
but instead sold them to make a little money on the side.

What, when or where may never be known :yep:

August

03-09-20, 06:33 PM

There are seven billion living humans on the planet. It's going to keep happening.

Skybird

03-09-20, 06:39 PM

There are things in people's life they take for granted or do not thing about it.

These things are electricity, tv, internet(incl. Computers)

95-99 % just press or push a button on the wall and they have electricity or press a button on a remote and they can watch tv..they take these things for granted or do not think about it.

The reason to this, was a picture a Danish news paper had among an article, which was about a young lady who had bought a lot and a lot of food, ´cause she is convinced the society will come to a fall, due to this Corona epidemic.

At first I did not pay any attention to this picture..then it was like..hey wait a minute...and yes many of the food she had bought need to be cooked.

If it should happen, what this women and other fear-then it would also mean breakdown on electricity or lots of black-outs which can be for hours.

In other words some if not most of it have to eaten cold.
I would recommend her to buy some type of heating thing who use(forgot the word)

Markus
Get a rocket oven. There are models optimised for using coal, there are models optimised for using wood, there are models that can use both.

Additionally I have two small camping stoves for burning gas cartridge of two formats, petroleum, gasoline, and even alcohol and fuel creme (dont know how they call it in English).

The reason is simple: diversification of chances and risks. If supply chains break down for a while, one does not necessarily know what kind of fuel one will have access to again first, so whatever you can get your hands on to replenish your used supplies, you want to be able to use whatever it is. For this reason I also recommend a rocket stove. Where there is a sack of grill coal in your cellar, or nature and wood near your place, you can use both safely in it. It also makes a nice cooking experience if you have guests in your garden. Something diffent. Put a Dutch oven on it, or a Wok pan, and people will go "OH!" and "Ah!"

Diversification of risks and options. Multi purpose use of tools and ressources. In case of emergency, you do not want to depend on needing to take care of plenty of highly specialised tools, but you want a few ones only - but these of a multi-purpose kind so that the one can serve in the others purpose as well in case on breaks or goes missing or batteries or fuel are out.

Traveller

03-09-20, 06:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb94GXQVEKQ

Seattle-area officials report 33 new cases and 3 new deaths. Seattle and King County officials reported 33 new cases, including two deaths, and said that one person who was previously reported as a positive case has died. That brings the total number of cases in the county to 116 and 20 deaths, 19 of which are all connected to the Life Care residential home in Kirkland.New York City Port Authority director tests positive. Rick Cotton, the Port Authority’s executive director for New York and New Jersey, has tested positive for the new coronavirus (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/port-authority-head-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-new-york-gov-cuomo-says.html).Trump downplays the severity of coronavirus, comparing it to the flu.President Donald Trump sought to downplay the plunging price of oil and the global spread of the new coronavirus as markets fell on Monday, saying that falling gas prices were good for consumers and comparing the coronavirus to the common flu. “Good for the consumer, gasoline prices coming down!” Trump wrote in one of a series of posts on Twitter.

In another, he wrote that the flu killed 37,000 Americans last year, compared to 22 known deaths from COVID-19. “Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on,” he tweeted.Trump had contact with congressmen Collins and Gaetz before they self-quarantined over coronavirus concerns. President Donald Trump (https://www.cnbc.com/donald-trump/) had contact with two Republican congressmen (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/collins-gaetz-had-contact-with-trump-before-coronavirus-self-quarantine.html) before their announcements Monday that they were entering self-quarantine after learning they had been previously exposed to someone since diagnosed with coronavirus.

Rep. Doug Collins of Georgia shook hands with Trump last (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/collins-gaetz-had-contact-with-trump-before-coronavirus-self-quarantine.html) Friday when the president traveled to Atlanta to visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/trump-anybody-who-wants-a-test-gets-a-test-amid-shortage-for-coronavirus.html), where officials there briefed him on their response to coronavirus. (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/coronavirus-latest-updates.html)

Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida flew on Air Force One with Trump on Monday on a flight from Orlando, Fla., (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/white-house-to-invite-wall-street-executives-to-meet-over-coronavirus-concerns.html) to Joint Base Andrews in Maryland. The New York Times, citing two people with knowledge of the situation, reported that Gaetz learned (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/us/politics/trump-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories &pgtype=Homepage) shortly after the plane was airborne that he, like Collins, had been in contact with a person at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Maryland in late February who since has been diagnosed with coronavirus. Gaetz then sat in a section of the plane by himself, the newspaper reported.Congressman who came into contact with coronavirus patient spent the weekend with Trump.Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz, who says he was told he came into contact with someone who is infected with coronavirus at the Conservative Political Action Conference, spent the weekend with President Trump at his resort in Mar-a-Lago, according to two sources familiar.

Gaetz also spent Saturday evening as the president's guest at an intimate dinner with Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro.

On Monday, Gaetz also rode in the presidential limousine in Orlando with Trump. The men were seen sitting just feet from each other chatting in the presidential vehicle. They both exited the presidential vehicle and boarded Air Force One on Monday for the flight back to Andrews Air Force Base.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/coronavirus-latest-updates.html

A fifth US congressman was exposed to CPAC attendee who tested positive for coronavirus.Rep. Louis Gohmert, a Republican from Texas, was called by officials yesterday and was told he had been in proximity of the individual at the Conservative Political Action Conference who tested positive for coronavirus, according to the congressman's aide. According to the aide, the doctor told him that if he was Gohmert, he’d go back to Washington and observe good hygiene.

Gohmert is choosing not to self-quarantine.US Capitol should not shut down because of coronavirus, House speaker Pelosi says.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Monday afternoon that the Capitol should not shut down over the novel coronavirus.

“No. No, no no, no. Do you understand no?” she told reporters as she entered her office.
“At this time, there is no reason to do so.https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-09-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Onkel Neal

03-09-20, 07:13 PM

That's one of the first rumors I heard too, but it turned out to be false media.

Now the rumor is that the CIA (our CIA) invented the virus due to anger at China, but that rumor has been traced back via Facebook to a group headed by the Russians.

They actually get people to believe whatever seeds they plant and the Russians have had some limited success in their operations.

The other seed thought has been that marketing of live animals caused the disease in the first place. You know snakes, bats, those dragon looking things.

Which has been going since the caveman days and is a little hard for me to accept that theory, but my boss had another insight that the animals for sale in the market place
of Wuhan China were actually from a lab in Wuhan that had been experimenting on the animals and when the usefulness of the animal was over they didn't kill them,
but instead sold them to make a little money on the side.

What, when or where may never be known :yep:

Sounds like something I heard recently, Russia and Saudi Arabia decided to flood the oil market and take the US out.

Meanwhile, this Wuhan Flu situation reminds me of Operation Dark Winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOhn0rQZrU

Rockstar

03-09-20, 07:19 PM

Feasibility of controlling COVID-19 outbreaks by isolation of cases and contacts
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30074-7/fulltext

What is different in 2020 compared with 2003?
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30129-8/fulltext

I wouldn't pay that much attention to the exponential growth model.especially when it comes to infectious disease, I know its the new craze, but its really just a simplified view of a very complex problem. If you're interested in a more realistic model even though it may cause severe brain cramp, take a look at whats called Logistics Growth Model https://services.math.duke.edu/education/ccp/materials/diffeq/logistic/logi1.html

Skybird

03-09-20, 07:34 PM

Guys, its time to raise early in the morning, rush to the hospital and to use your towel for what it was made for. :D

This table shows the number of hospital beds per 1000 population. Have you already reserved yours?

https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2227&l=de

Rank - Country - beds/1000

2. Japan 13.4
3. DPR Korea 13.2
4. Republic Korea 11.5
8. Germany 8.3
10. Russia 8.2
20. France 6.5
32. Cuba 5.2
67. Italy 3.4
73. Spain 3.0
76. USA 2.9
82. UK 2.8
89. Canada 2.7
94. Denmark 2.5
96. Sweden 2.4

Americans may want to compare their situation with that of Italy. Italy is a hotspot of ev ents, and the bed/population quotas are in the same range.

On average, a good estimation is that round the hour in Western countries two thirdsa of beds usually are already occupied. Else the house would generate no revenues, which is what hospitals these days predominantly are about.

Onkel Neal

03-09-20, 07:41 PM

I can testify to that. When I had my adverse blood transfusion reaction 2 years ago, the two hospitals I tried to get admitted to were full and not taking new patients.

Traveller

03-09-20, 07:47 PM

I can testify to that. When I had my adverse blood transfusion reaction 2 years ago, the two hospitals I tried to get admitted to were full and not taking new patients.True. Most of those beds that Skybird listed were already occupied before the pandemic began.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SZBuHFzYlw

Traveller

03-09-20, 07:49 PM

I can testify to that. When I had my adverse blood transfusion reaction 2 years ago, the two hospitals I tried to get admitted to were full and not taking new patients.

True. Most of the beds that Skybird listed were already occupied before the pandemic began.

Skybird

03-09-20, 08:00 PM

Sounds like something I heard recently, Russia and Saudi Arabia decided to flood the oil market and take the US out.

Its the Saudis doing it, the Russians just accept to swallow it, since it damages them, too, but they have not forgotten that the US tries to bully them out of the liquid gas market, too.

The extremely high costs and incompetitive prices for fracking oil and gas now fall back on the US states who invested very big ammounts of money in the past ten years. Such low prices are hard to digest if you have invested billions and billions before.The Saudis are out to slit your throat. And with the Russians not opening a second front against them, the Saudis may reach their goal, and wreck many fracking companies or financially press those states housing them, Texas in the main.

From a German perspective, I have not forgotten Trump's stunt on the Northstream pipeline. It delays the finishing only however, but still - we will not forget it. And the Russians not anyway. Here again the US' aggressiveness is due to the need to get compensation for the big investements in the past ten years and so to force Europe to buy form the US, not from Russia. But who wants to pay 30% over price if he can get market prices from somebody else?

Traveller

03-09-20, 08:34 PM

President Trump tweets from yesterday:
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!Good for the consumer, gasoline prices coming down!The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/09/trump-blames-oil-war-coronavirus-fake-news-stock-market-plunge/

:nope:

Mr Quatro

03-09-20, 08:36 PM

I hope this is the right place to put this ... Just found it due to the advice of a reporter on ABC.

This one is cheap/reusable and I like that

Temp*Qwik Digital Thermometers Strip 1 Count
$6.99

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Temp-Qwik-Digital-Thermometers-Strip-1-Count/32501643

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Rockstar

03-09-20, 08:42 PM

Sounds like something I heard recently, Russia and Saudi Arabia decided to flood the oil market and take the US out.

Meanwhile, this Wuhan Flu situation reminds me of Operation Dark Winter.

Like someone in U.S. politics once said: "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

Traveller

03-09-20, 10:16 PM

A 32 year-old doctor's assistant in New Jersey who became infected is now hospitalized and in serious condition with pneumonia. He is on oxygen, but his health continues to deteriorate, with only one lung now semi-functional. He had no underlying health problems. Also, he doesn't drink or smoke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JedXOgOPC8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ARjtvuW5Yw&feature=youtu.be

46 workers in a single office and 4 family members infected in Seoul, South Korea.Fifty people tied to a single call center in the South Korean capital of Seoul have contracted the novel coronavirus, health authorities there said.

It is believed to be the biggest single infection cluster in Seoul.

The employees of the call center were not wearing masks when they were working, according to Kwon.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-10-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Jimbuna

03-10-20, 06:04 AM

Coronavirus: UK spread in maps and charts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

ikalugin

03-10-20, 06:15 AM

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmosgorzdrav.ru%2Fru-RU%2Fnews%2Fdefault%2Fcard%2F3581.html

Moscow regional government FAQ. Note how individual self-isolation is mandatory under certain circumstances.

Rockstar

03-10-20, 06:59 AM

Rufus Shinra

03-10-20, 07:05 AM

Looks quite similar to what our CDC is transmitting to the general public. Though tippy top leadership says its the democrats perpetrating a hoax and all will be fine. Reminds me of the days of Baghdad Bob. I swear they must have been separated at birth.
http://welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/MSS.jpg

But hey Im heading to Japan I hear that over there everything is just rosey.
TBH, I'd rather go to Italy than the US right now. At least, Italy seems to have an idea of what's happening when the US response is more akin to Mao's response to the Great Leap Forward at the height of the famine.

Rockstar

03-10-20, 07:48 AM

Sounds good buddy do let us know how it goes for you in Italy maybe a layover in Japan too? I hear everything is fine and control over there as well. You know what they say no matter where you go the grass is always greener on the other side.

Rufus Shinra

03-10-20, 07:56 AM

Sounds good buddy do let us know how it goes for you in Italy maybe a layover in Japan too? I hear everything is fine and control over there as well. You know what they say: "the grass is always greener on the other side".
Meh, neither Italy nor Japan are pretending that everything is fine, that it's just a big cold and are unable to test their people while having one of the objectively worst healthcare systems of the developed world and maintaining massive electoral meetings all over the country. I kinda doubt anyone outside Pennsylvania Avenue believes there are only 600-700 cases in the States by now. It's kinda like Trump himself: no test means no contamination.

At least, now in Italy, they're reducing or even stopping most movement, which should drastically reduce further contaminations - in two weeks or more, the time the current early cases manifest themselves, that is.

Rockstar

03-10-20, 08:00 AM

So I guess you wont be going to Italy then?

Rockstar

03-10-20, 10:57 AM

https://yourhealthforumbydrcirino.org/

5. With any viral spillover, there are always two outbreaks: Infectious Disease and the Infectious Fear.

An outbreak is an unpredictable process. It can sometimes burn out, even as we are still learning of the risk factors of its spread. As for a respiratory virus outbreak, it is easily transmitted, often leading to relatively silent spread. Containment strategies are often too late. As information emerges from the virus, speculation can create narratives that lead to fear, panic and rapid decision-making.

Reports from the news are often related to deaths and how the viral infection is changing regular life and can be sensationalistic. Online authors and presenters are shaping the news and narratives. The images of the strict containment measures in China tempt us to think about self-preservation from an unknown invader. These fears shape behaviors: cancelling flights, stocking up on masks, cancelling conferences. While it is not wrong that containment measures can help, defining cases can lead to more targeted containment without crippling the flow of a functioning society.

In the unknown of the COVID-19 outbreak, the stock market has seen great losses and is showing volatility. Imposing mass quarantine and containment efforts can have real effects on the economy and productivity. Canceling major conferences can lead to losses that can affect multiple sectors. Even if you decide not to cancel your European trip, strict measures could be applied in the setting of an outbreak, that can limit or spoil your vacation plans.

Stories of vampires, werewolves and zombies go back hundreds, if not thousands of years. The concept of some unknown force overpowering humans and causing them to morph into someone or something else hits the nerve of our self-preservation instinct. In many ways, viruses are the true vampires. They are lifeless forces other than the primitive instincts of self-preservation and self-generation.

A virus’s consciousness is generativity – producing copies to transmit to others. It’s result is a destructive untangling of the fiber of society.

A virus is transmitted through social interactions and an interruptions in these behaviors although may be useful, often results in a significant fallout.

I know it seems Italy shut down their entire country. But what besides spaghetti and meatballs do they really offer the global community? Plus if it gets too bad for them they'll just get Germany to bail them out. Can you imagine if the leaders in global economics and stability such as the U.S., China, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and others all barred their doors at the same time and told everyone to go home for a month or two while this blows over? Exhausted resources, massive unemployment, war, death rates surge, it would make Venezuela's economy look like something to strive for.

mapuc

03-10-20, 11:01 AM

May be of interest

Early studies suggest COVID-19 replicates efficiently in the upper respiratory tract. Infected people produce a large quantity of the virus at the beginning of the infection and new research revealed the incubation period of the infection is 5.1 days, where those infected do not exhibit any symptoms, which allows them to carry on as normal and contribute to the spread of the virus. COVID-19 presents in three patterns of infection: It begins with mild illness and upper respiratory tract symptoms, followed by non-life-threatening pneumonia. After about a week, severe pneumonia with acute respiratory distress syndrome can progress rapidly and sometimes require life support.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/heres-how-covid19-attacks-the-human-body/?fbclid=IwAR0t8fRrEn3Ljo9CT9ehdK2R3Yij3WCZ8ty5ijq-8Ehnmg8Fxkd5AsdFcYE

Markus

ET2SN

03-10-20, 11:15 AM

But hey Im heading to Japan

Do me a favor? Do they still sell the brown cans of Georgia Coffee in the hot vending machines? Drink one for me.

https://dailycoffeenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/UCC-coffee-can.jpg

I still have a serious Jones for Georgia Coffee after all these years. :D

I can buy them here in the states (sometimes), but they just don't taste as good as when they come hot out of the machine.

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Rufus Shinra

03-10-20, 11:45 AM

So I guess you wont be going to Italy then?
Living in France, so I won't have to move to Italy, the situation is coming here pretty soon.

Mr Quatro

03-10-20, 11:47 AM

I know it seems Italy shut down their entire country. But what besides spaghetti and meatballs do they really offer the global community?

Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Vespa, the Pope, the God father, Sophia Loren :up:

Rufus Shinra

03-10-20, 12:02 PM

Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Vespa, the Pope, the God father, Sophia Loren :up:
Oto-Melara, AKA the best damn naval guns of the entire solar system, bar none. They're also among the best designers of solid fuel rockets out there.

moose1am

03-10-20, 12:40 PM

A 32 year-old doctor's assistant in New Jersey who became infected is now hospitalized and in serious condition with pneumonia. He is on oxygen, but his health continues to deteriorate, with only one lung now semi-functional. He had no underlying health problems. Also, he doesn't drink or smoke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JedXOgOPC8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ARjtvuW5Yw&feature=youtu.be

46 workers in a single office and 4 family members infected in Seoul, South Korea.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-10-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Now, this is scary! There is a cluster of cases in this part of New York State and the Governor of New York State called out the National Guard to wall off this part of the state. That's like a Hollywood movie I've seen on the Sci-Fi Channel on TV.
:Kaleun_Wink:

Mr Quatro

03-10-20, 12:45 PM

What a load of crap that the USA (CIA) is responsible for Covid-19 :o

Here it is in black and white that the bats they are blaming were sold in the market place did not come from the local area, but from the Wuhan Center for Disease Control :yep:

https://finance.townhall.com/columnists/johnransom/2020/03/10/draft-n2564336

Since the start of the outbreak, Chinese state-controlled social media has been pushing the theory that the virus is a US bio-weapon.

China’s own researchers at the South China University of Technology, Botao Xiao and Lei Xiao, believe that it’s likely that the virus originated from the ironically-named Wuhan Center for Disease Control. (Communists are notorious for their ironic naming conventions). The Chinese scientists cited the fact that the genome sequence of the bats most commonly associated with the Wuhan flu are from bats identical to the bats in the lab and not bats native to Wuhan.

Catfish

03-10-20, 12:52 PM

^ but i tend to agree. A covert operation, developing a virus in Wuhan to divert from the USA, brilliant ! :D

Jimbuna

03-10-20, 12:55 PM

UK virus cases reach 373 as sixth person dies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51822618

Rockstar

03-10-20, 01:43 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/french-mayor-defends-smurf-rally-outcry-over-virus-001955753.html

Good to see somebody is having fun.

https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/VrqplR6LixBdV2C7amODGg--~B/aD01MTI7dz03Njg7c209MTthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/39d73f0d4af0df2bf6fac4981175270f572762e9.jpg

Skybird

03-10-20, 03:01 PM

mapuc,

you asked for this some time ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51800707

------------------------------

German ice hockey league DHL this season will have no champion, they have cancelled all playoff games. I assume economically it does not pay off to have ghost matches without audience. So, the German hocky season is over from immediately on. Football Bundesliga will have ghost matches, many.

The seasonal funfair in Münster ("Send") is cancelled as well. Its famous far beyond the region, and attracts people even form Holland. It runs three times a year.

Slowly, more and more Germany shifts towards lockdown mode. In my district and surorpunding "counties", first classes, now more and more schools and canteens get locked down.

They said on TV today that Germany has 500,000 hospital beds, 28,000 of which are with respiratory intensive care equipment. But of these 28K beds, 80% already are occupied currently with non-Corona patients. Leaves around 5600 free beds nation-wide. they have started to delay or cancel non-essential surgical operations.

Two German expert said that summer, opposite to initial hopes, most likely will not have an influence on the virus due to high temperatures killing it. The other said that a vaccine will not be ready for mass production before 2022. He was aware of the work being done and the different strategies followed in American, German and other pharmaceutical labs.

1. Officially it is expected that within the next 2 years 70% of the population will be exposed to and catch up the virus.

2. German health minister expects that up to one quarter of Corona patients older than 70, will die. While 80% of Corona patients younger than 50 are likely developing no symptoms or only a very mild flu.

3. Let' s do some math. Around 17 million people in Germany are age 70 or older. If 70% of these get it in the next two years, that is close to 12 million. If of these, one quarter may die, this would mean: 3 million. I want to hear no more jokes or stupid retarded Trump comments on how harmless it is. Everybody has the duty to contribute his little share to help delaying things so that at any given time as many free beds are available as possible. Germany has almost three times as high a hospital bed saturation for its population than the US, and more capacities than other European countries, again by up to three factors. If they still consider such quotas and death rates, you can start to imagine how it maybe will go in countries with fewer beds.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/27/coronavirus-england-only-has-15-beds-for-worst-respiratory-cases

Skybird

03-10-20, 03:36 PM

German health minister podcasted that the govenrment expects the preliminary climax in July and August (in Germany).

Federalism and skirmishes for regional administrative authority work against battling the virus. Some places ban public events, others don't and rate tourism interest and financial aspects higher. In some arenas, there will be no audience during football matches. In others there will be audience. Some places are more and others are less restrictive, and party loyalty and ideology play a big role. In egnland and other coutnries, they desinfect public places and public transportation: stations, seats and banks, busses and train waggons.... This is being done nowhere in germany.

mapuc

03-10-20, 04:29 PM

@ Skybird.

Thank you for the information you gave me about the situation in Germany when it comes to sport.

Same here in Denmark..the national ice hockey have decided to postpone the playoffs and even change it.

And the national football team play ghost matches.

In Sweden they have decided to play the national playoffs in ishockey spectators or not.

Beside the woman's wold cup in Ice hockey have been cancelled.

As mentioned many pages back....be prepared there may not be any European football championships(start 13 June ends 13 July)

Now to myself and my family

My mom and I had decided I should pay her a visit in the end of this month.
But she has problem with her heart(they discovered this some month ago) and this Corona is highly contagious.

I could not forgive myself if I infected her as she belongs to those who are in the dangerous group.

Markus

Skybird

03-10-20, 04:36 PM

@ Skybird.

Thank you for the information you gave me about the situation in Germany when it comes to sport.

Eh - no :) , you asked some days ago how fast symptoms show up if you got infected. Back then I had no direct reply, now I gave you the linked article, it says: after 5 days.

:03:

The rest of that posting is not specifically linked to you, but a general daily update of the situation today in Germany.

In the West, they now expect a second wave in China, when the quarantine gets eased, people start moving again - and spread the virus again. By far not enough people of their total population already have immunization as if the new spreading would be prevented. This process, until there is a stopping effect from immunization levels, could last for up to two years. Some say maybe even longer.

Compare to MERS: that epidemy has not ended until today.

Skybird

03-10-20, 04:40 PM

My mom and I had decided I should pay her a visit in the end of this month.
But she has problem with her heart(they discovered this some month ago) and this Corona is highly contagious.

I could not forgive myself if I infected her as she belongs to those who are in the dangerous group.

Valid concerns. Stay safe of social life and "isolate yourself" two weeks ahead, if you have not formed any symptoms within 2 weeks after a possible infection, you are unlikely to infect others any longer or form symptoms yourself, even if you carry the virus, it has chnaged by then. That is no certainty, however, but is what probability says.

But in the first five days of a possible infection you possibly will not know that you are infected - while you already can infect others. So five days ahead of your visit you need to stay clean of any risks for catching the infection. That includes the travel you do, of course.

Rockstar

03-10-20, 04:51 PM

Looks at Zinc again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

mapuc

03-10-20, 05:43 PM

Due to the lastest development here in Denmark where more than 100 person had been infected with this Covid-19 since yesterday(total 262)
And the development i Sweden.

I say the time when an infected person start to become contagious towards others is very close to when they was infected by some other.

As mentioned in the article Skybird postet.

It takes five days on average for people to start showing the symptoms of coronavirus, scientists have confirmed.

To clarify it.
I'm talking about two things

1. When the symptoms are showing
and
2. When an infected person start to infect others.

My classified guess is around 36-48 hours after a person have been infected they start to infect others.
Which mean they are contagious for around 72-84 hours before any symptoms are showing on these person.

And as Both Skybird have mentioned and I have read in Swedish and English news paper.
Chinese doctors(scientist) had found active(not the correct word) corona virus on surface where sick people have been...so even here a person can get infected.

This is way all these step our government takes to prevent it from spreading will not help.

That's how I see it.

Markus

Skybird

03-10-20, 05:53 PM

A recent Ameicna study said that surprringly the virus is able to survive higher temps better than was expected, thats why the germans now conclude as well that summer with temperatures higher thna 30 or 33°C will notr bringb an easing of the surging numbers in new ifnections.

On surfaces last thing I heard was that the virus can survive also surprisingly long, up to 9 days under optimal conditions: cold and moist.

One of the very few things I additionally invested in, was increaisng my reserve in surface cleaner capable to kill virusses.

Note that thes eneed around 30 seocnds to fully unfoild their effectveness on virusses, like ahn d desifnectants (whcih needs to see the ahnds staying wet for 30, even 90 seconds as well, dpeends on the agent and brand you use). A quick swipe and seeing it having dried after two seconds again IS NOT ENOUGH. Thats why they often do not even do it correctly in hospitals - they do not have the time. Room and bed cleaning I mean, not surgeons washing their hands.

Traveller

03-10-20, 06:28 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0HYh6zjTUo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZV9z0RVhy4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mrPHO-nkVE

That Italian doctor in the third video stated that they are now seeing an overall increase in the number of younger patients requiring ICU. Not good. He also said the average age of those admitted to ICU there is 65, meaning that half of those in ICU are under 65. This must be a deadlier strain.

UK's junior health minister infected.Nadine Dorries, the UK's junior health minister, has tested positive for coronavirus, UK Department of Health told CNN on Tuesday.

Dorries, who is an MP and health minister for patient safety and suicide prevention, is now in self-isolation and "the usual contract tracing has begun," a spokesperson for the health ministry told CNN.
168 new deaths in Italy on Tuesday. Up from 97 new deaths on Monday.Deaths in Italy from coronavirus have risen sharply in the past 24 hours, with 168 new deaths reported, Angelo Borrelli, head of Italy's Civil protection Agency said on Tuesday.

On Monday, there was an increase of 97 deaths.

The deaths announced today bring the total number of coronavirus deaths in Italy to 631. There are now 10,149 recorded cases of coronavirus in Italy.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-10-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Skybird

03-10-20, 08:14 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0HYh6zjTUo

If I were an American, I would fume in rage and anger now, feelign willing to go on amok rampage in Washington's government district, and other federal states capitals.

However, its not going that much different over here. Just the excuses given sound a bit different. The quoted "gold standard" the video tlaks of, also is not being reached over here. By far not.

I think the political leadership(s) should completely be arrested and charged for negligent bodily harm and negligent homicide in hundreds of thousands of cases. Over here, they still refuse to implement some of the most obvious, self-recommending measaures - and attack neighbouring states for implementing them.

People may get a small virus. But political leaders have big worms eating holes into their brains since much longer.

Skybird

03-10-20, 09:08 PM

From Milan, Italy:

Doctors in Milan: Close to Despair

In Milan, the burden on hospitals is increasing due to the numerous corona cases. Two doctors report dramatic situations in their clinics.

While the Italian government has now declared the entire country a restricted area to at least limit the spread of the coronavirus, the situation in clinics in and around Milan is deteriorating. This is revealed - despite occasionally imposed message blocks - by a doctor's conversation with the F.A.Z. as well as the branding letter of another doctor who the F.A.Z. is present.

An emergency doctor from a clinic in Milan reports that the number of intensive care beds in his hospital has doubled, but the number of doctors, nurses remains the same because there are simply no more doctors and nurses. The nursing staff has therefore long been working above the exposure limit. The doctor appeals to the population: "I greet you from hell. Help us by staying at home. We can hardly help anyway. If the rules finally are not strictly followed, it will lead to mass killing, "warns the intensive care doctor, adding:" Pray for the nurses who sacrifice themselves here ".

Another doctor from a hospital in the eastern area of Milan reports that the course of the disease has also worsened in young patients. So far, old and weak people were in acute danger. Now, however, the course is becoming increasingly serious, even in younger, healthy patients. There are also hardly any respiratory machines that are absolutely necessary for coronavirus patients.

In the meantime, triage had to be started there. This means that you only intensively treat those who are still given a chance of survival. Elderly or weak patients are no longer given maximum care, which greatly reduces their chances of survival. Triage is actually a procedure that is only intended in times of war or in extreme disaster situations.

Also in the hospital on the outskirts of Milan - as in the clinic in Milan itself - all beds are exclusively occupied by coronavirus patients, as the doctor stationed there reports. For example, if someone were brought in with a heart attack, that patient would have no chance of adequate treatment, he says. In his clinic, too, the staff would work beyond the stress limit. To date, more than 10,000 infections have been reported across Italy, and more than 460 people have died.

In particular, experienced intensive care physicians and intensive care nurses are necessary for the treatment of the difficult courses. But there are only as many of them in normal hospitals as are needed in normal times. Ordinary hospitals in Italy are not adequately equipped for an epidemic.

Both doctors now consider it necessary to actually impose a kind of curfew in the next two to three weeks. With regard to the situation in other countries such as Germany, they express the view that a worsening as in Italy can still be prevented if larger groups of people are consistently prohibited there. Larger events should be canceled. According to the doctor in Milan, public transport should no longer be used for two to three weeks, or only under massive hygienic controls. He also knew that this would have massive economic consequences, he says. But a fully developed corona epidemic has such consequences, too.
from: FAZ
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/aerzte-in-mailand-der-verzweiflung-nahe-16672571.html

Traveller

03-10-20, 11:41 PM

Another doctor from a hospital in the eastern area of Milan reports that the course of the disease has also worsened in young patients. So far, old and weak people were in acute danger. Now, however, the course is becoming increasingly serious, even in younger, healthy patients.Very worrying news. It does now appear there is a deadlier strain hitting Italy and Iran.

Traveller

03-11-20, 06:26 AM

Regarding Dr. John Campbell's March 10th video update I posted, I think the most important information was in the beginning where he talked about that bus passenger in China who became infected, getting on 30 minutes after an already infected passenger had gotten off. Researchers meticulously ruled out all other possibilities of transmission.

The virus is airborne.

10 nursing homes in Washington state confirm infections.Health officials in Washington state have announced that at least 10 long-term care facilities have reported positive COVID-19 cases.
German Chancellor Merkel says 60-70% of Germany's population will become infected.German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that authorities believed 60-70% of the population would eventually get infected by the novel coronavirus. National Guard to deploy in New York. Will create 'containment zone'.New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced Tuesday plans to deploy the National Guard and create a one-mile containment area in New Rochelle in an attempt to stop a growing cluster of coronavirus cases.

Infected UK health minister had direct contact with PM Boris Johnson. Nadine Dorries, who attended a reception with the Prime Minister and his fiancé Carrie Symonds in Downing Street last Thursday, said in a statement on Tuesday that she had been diagnosed with the virus and is in self-isolation.

Health officials are now racing to trace those who have had contact with Dorries, who has kept a busy diary of engagements in and around the UK's political center. https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-11-20-intl-hnk/index.html

ikalugin

03-11-20, 06:26 AM

There also seems to be shortage of masks and other personal protection means for medical workers.

Jimbuna

03-11-20, 06:35 AM

Seventh death in the UK was reported last night.

Skybird

03-11-20, 08:48 AM

Oh man, in Italy things really seem to go badly. Just red that hospitals have started to reject elder people. I refer to the translated article I posted on the page before, there they called it "triage". But now they do not just treat elderly people with little chances less intensely, but they do not even let them coming in anymore.

In plain words: their situation is so desperate that they must actively decide to let people die.

Was forseeable and to be expected, but still impressing me when now really reading it for fact.

Rockstar

03-11-20, 09:17 AM

Makes me wonder what is setting Italy apart from the rest of the world. South Korea has similar numbers and a fairly aggressive treatment plan and their numbers appear to be well under control. Unfortunately for Italy my best guess is their healthcare system is now overloaded and unable to effectively cope with the situation. The exact thing our own CDC warned may happen.

The dramatically fast surge in Italian infection rates might be answered looking at Italian culture. It is said there isn't much consideration given to what we call in the U.S. 'our personal space'. In Italy getting within close proximity to one another and physical contact is quite common place and culturally accepted, even with strangers. They just happen to be among the cuddliest nations on earth.

Traveller

03-11-20, 09:26 AM

NYU doctor says US hospitals are unprepared and will be ‘flooded’.Coronavirus patients could so overwhelm U.S. hospitals that doctors and nurses would be unable to provide adequately for other patients, an infectious disease specialist told CNBC.

The U.S. has fewer doctors per person and fewer hospital beds per person than Italy, said Gounder, a clinical assistant professor of medicine and infectious diseases at New York University.Three TSA airport screeners in California test positive.Three airport security screeners based at Mineta San Jose International Airport in California have tested positive for the virus, the Transportation Security Administration.Trump calls emergency meeting with top health officials at White House. “This morning we were informed that President Trump and Vice President Pence have called our witnesses to an emergency meeting at the White House. We don’t know the details, just that it’s extremely urgent,” Maloney, D-NY, said before opening a hearing on the nation’s preparedness and response to the coronavirus outbreak that has swept across the nation.DJIA plummets 1,000 points (4%).The Dow Jones Industrial Average traded 1,000 points lower, or 4%. The S&P 500 slid 3.6% while the Nasdaq Composite dropped 3.3%. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-latest-updates.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0HPeNPOOamw
It is coming, and there is no escape.

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 09:56 AM

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 10:01 AM

There also seems to be shortage of masks and other personal protection means for medical workers.

Yeah, there's a shortage period, since most of it comes from China.

People are being blamed for buying masks and leaving none for medical workers. I say nuts to them, the health professions should be more alert and better prepared. They knew about this the same time as the rest of us, why didn't they act?

From the Boston Globe
https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-testing-delays

Dr. Helen Y. Chu, an infectious disease expert in Seattle, knew that the United States did not have much time.

In late January, the first confirmed American case of the coronavirus had landed in her area. Critical questions needed answers: Had the man infected anyone else? Was the deadly virus already lurking in other communities and spreading?

As luck would have it, Chu had a way to monitor the region. For months, as part of a research project into the flu, she and a team of researchers had been collecting nasal swabs from residents experiencing symptoms throughout the Puget Sound region.

To repurpose the tests for monitoring the coronavirus, they would need the support of state and federal officials. But nearly everywhere Chu turned, officials repeatedly rejected the idea, interviews and emails show, even as weeks crawled by and outbreaks emerged in countries outside China, where the infection began.

By Feb. 25, Chu and her colleagues could not bear to wait any longer. They began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval.

What came back confirmed their worst fear. They quickly had a positive test from a local teenager with no recent travel history. The coronavirus had already established itself on U.S. soil without anybody realizing it.

“It must have been here this entire time,” Chu recalled thinking with dread. “It’s just everywhere already.”

ikalugin

03-11-20, 10:07 AM

Yeah, there's a shortage period, since most of it comes from China.

People are being blamed for buying masks and leaving none for medical workers. I say nuts to them, the health professions should be more alert and better prepared. They knew about this the same time as the rest of us, why didn't they act?

From the Boston Globe
https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-testing-delays

Would't you keep strategic stockpiles of personal protection means for the medical workers though? Ie by people like FEMA and the like.

The other problem that I see is mass burrial. If we are looking at 50%+ infected and 2%+ dead then we can expect 1%+ of population to die over the next few months and this may require centralised corpse collection and burrial to be organised.

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 10:23 AM

Would't you keep strategic stockpiles of personal protection means for the medical workers though? Ie by people like FEMA and the like.

The other problem that I see is mass burrial. If we are looking at 50%+ infected and 2%+ dead then we can expect 1%+ of population to die over the next few months and this may require centralised corpse collection and burrial to be organised.

The agencies should, yeah.

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 10:27 AM

What if someone dies from Covid-19 that is a big shot?

You know a world leader? Pick a country, any country ... :yep:

Would they have a big state funeral for them with a parade and
the body laying in the rountunda :hmmm:

Who would attend? Who would get sick? :oops:

Jimbuna

03-11-20, 10:46 AM

Jimbuna

03-11-20, 10:48 AM

The number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the UK has now reached 456, the biggest rise in a single day.

The Department of Health confirmed there had been 83 more cases since Tuesday. Six patients with coronavirus have died in hospitals in the UK.

It comes as NHS England plans to expand the number of people it can test in a day to 10,000, up from 1,500.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51839106

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 10:58 AM

Remember when China was angry with the USA over Chinese passengers not allowed into our country?
Now they are saying no foreign visitors can enter into the capital of Beijing, China without going through 14 day quarantine.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/beijing-mandates-quarantine-for-all-international-arrivals-amid-22-new-virus-deaths/ar-BB112bVP

Beijing on Wednesday ordered people arriving in the city from any country to go into 14-day quarantine as China reported an increase in imported coronavirus cases, threatening its progress against the epidemic.

ET2SN

03-11-20, 11:18 AM

I can order food using my internet ... :yep:

Unless you have automated drones delivering food from an automated warehouse (and who's making the donuts?), there might be a problem with your plan. :03:

Aktungbby

03-11-20, 12:06 PM

I wonder if I can get out of jury duty... by wearing a corona virus mask. Being in a jury pool certainly constitutes a 'mass gathering' imho!:hmmm: I seem to get summoned every two years and my wife had to report earlier this week too...jury service vs jury servitude?

STEED

03-11-20, 12:14 PM

Coronavirus: COVID-19 outbreak declared pandemic by World Health Organisation which is 'deeply concerned'

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-outbreak-declared-pandemic-by-who-11955521

Stand by for mass stupidity. :03:

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 12:34 PM

Moonlight

03-11-20, 01:03 PM

^ That's liable to cause mass panic, and the courtroom with anyone in the vicinity being declared unclean as well. He'll just have to go and do his duty like any other jury person would do and be a good little docile servant. :up:

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 01:04 PM

A video judge is starting to come in focus :yep:

Aktungbby

03-11-20, 01:16 PM

A video judge is starting to come in focus :yep:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/4b815369ec1d5674f6d51c8ffbe0faaf/tenor.gif?itemid=14280739
Just go in and start coughing,I'm sure they will ask you to leave. :har: Well, at :hmmm:age 69(tomorrow:timeout:):o: I have to consider :oops:I didn't make it this far by being stupid....especially since the leading cause of death on this planet is generally....other people!:wah: :dead:

Skybird

03-11-20, 03:37 PM

Stand by for mass stupidity. :03:
What are these clowns earning their wages with? By definition, its a pandemic since - since how long now? Eight weeks? Ten?

The term "pandemic" in internantional scientific language is used to describe an epidemic development that

- either reaches beyond the borders of one nation and affects a significant proportion of the original nation' polulation that became sick,
or
- that describes an epidemic development that reaches beyon the borders of one continent.

Congratulations, WHO, somebody brought you a coffee two months ago, and today you finally managed to get a first ice-cold sip of it. :yeah:

mapuc

03-11-20, 03:53 PM

If I said what I'm about to put down in writing to an educated medical person, this one would most likely say..."don't speak of things you haven't any clue about"

Our politicians are only human like you and me, with the different they have enough skill to get people to put their vote on them

On the other hand our health authorities who have not only a long education in this field, but also having a long experience in their field-should not better and should have since week back given their elected politicians strict orders.

Reason is here in Denmark.

March 9 there was 90 registreret Covid-19 cases in Denmark.
Today right now there is about 519 person, where 9 of them is in critical situation.

Earlier today there was a press meeting where people from the health authorities told about the latest development and answered question from the journalist.

One them asked a qualified question.

"From Friday(6 March) and until Sunday afternoon(8 March) 500 passangers arrived from Northern Italy and walked right out into our society without no restriction whatsoever.
Why didn't you make those restriction when you knew Italy was a red zone and first initiate those restriction Sunday evening.

Before Sunday evening everyone who came from a country with high development of Corona-could walk right out among hundreds if not thousand of people in Denmark. After..Sunday evening they initiate restriction and people who arrived from Italy, Iran, Spain and some other countries was directed away from other people.

I get the feeling out health authorities are showing incompetent.

And first now, since some hour ago, the Danish politician have taken the same step, as they have in Italy..closed down Denmark.

Markus

Traveller

03-11-20, 04:45 PM

US CDC director says some coronavirus-related deaths have been found posthumously.Rouda followed up and asked, “So we could have some people in the United States dying for what appears to be influenza when in fact it could be the coronavirus?”

The doctor replied that “some cases have actually been diagnosed that way in the United States today.” Italian medical chief dies from coronavirus.Italy’s medical community is mourning the death of the head of the medical association in the northern Italian region of Varese, Italy’s state-run ANSA reported Wednesday.

Roberto Stella, president of the Medical Guild of Varese, died Tuesday night in Como, where the 67-year-old was hospitalized for respiratory failure due to coronavirus, the agency reported.Italy to close ALL stores and restaurants across the country.Italy will close all restaurants, bars and shops across the country in an effort to curb the spread of coronavirus, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced on Wednesday.

Only pharmacies and supermarkets will be allowed to remain open, Conte added.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-11-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Wow. :o

mapuc

03-11-20, 05:01 PM

I really wished I had a doctorate in psychology.

´cause I find the behavior the citizens are showing is very interesting to study.

Not so long after the Danish prime Minister declared those step...people rushed to the nearest store to start hoarding.

Despite there's no reason for this action.

Markus

Skybird

03-11-20, 05:13 PM

All stations - condition desperate.

Italy started to test too late, and not aggressive enough. Same in Iran. Thats why they already had a very high invisible infection they were not aware of and when they recognised that the virus was already there, they found it already was EVERYWHERE. This costed them the time to delay and to slow down the infection rate, and then when they launched additional measures, these again got delayed and stretched over time instead of "cluster bombing" the situation with these measures and everythign they had - while the situaiton was at full speed towards spiralling completely out of control.

Thats why they have the maximum number of cases in the shortest period of time and that is why their hospitals are drowning. Add to this that they have around 3 beds per 1000 population only, and only few of them with full intensive care equipment.

Nature will have its way this way, there is little Italy can do anymore in the immediate future. Same is true for Iran, and probably also in the US which has such a total failure in testing numbers and making testing as difficult if not impossible as possible that I wonder why Americans have not already stormed capitol halls and political offices. Probabaly because most do not understand the big picture and the contexts.

Germany is at the beginning still, the need to delay the unfolding of the pandemic so to distriubute pressure on the health system over longer time and taking the high peaks out of the graphs, is understood, but one does not act consequently, and federalism also hinders consistent measures nation wide. The regional Funfair is in my hometown cancelled - but the big week market event, famous beyond the region and attracting tens of thousands twice a week - shall take place...? Whats the logic in that?

Problems of social nature maybe are not yet fully understood in public. Children can become running death angels for older people and their grandparents. Adult children wanting to do the shopping for their old parents so that they can avoid the risk of needing to go to the supermarket - by delivering the goods could infect them if not being careful. Families must stay separate over the generations, when possible, and who easily can want that? Best it would be to pack all generations of your family together, leave the civilised urban world and hide in some forsaken place in the wild, far away from other humans. But Germany is a tiny country, for most Germans that is no option - job and earning money not even considered.

I am surprised how badly the American system does. I did not know that, only knew that it is overpriced. They always boast with having "the best health care" in the world and the "best hospitals" in the world and "the best doctors" in the world - but its of little use. Too little of everything, and too expensive. And that was already before Trump happened to the system and cut funds for the CDC. Yesterday's video by Traveller explained it "nicely". Means: the description was depressing. And scandalous.

A big mystery is Japan. They try to avoid testing as consequently as they can, they do not want to loose the Olympics and so sacrifice their people for the economic goal. A victim not counted and officially registered, is a victim not existing. How much must a people get brain-washed to form a servile, suicidal mentality that they cooperate so willingly with their own destruction? Not for one minute I believe that they have the low case numbers that they report. They avoid testing as much as they can, that simple it is.

Germany , by the understanding of the officials, may be on a good way, but this understanding gets compromised again by inconsistence in deciison.making and fear not to trigger unpopular measures. The excuses they give, turn more absurd every day, at least in my understanding of what they claim. So I expect to learn over this year that Germany underperforms in this crisis and causes much more damage and losses than by its starting conditions it would have needed to accept. Its wasti8ng its chances, in other words. Heck, its one of the globe'S most potent health system, by numerical capacities - and as I see it they carelessly trade this advantage away more and more every day by delaying needed measures day by day by day by day, and so neutralising these advantages we should have enjoyed, but now probably will not, or only at a much lesser level than could have had. Wasted chances.

Very well doing seems Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea.

Rockstar

03-11-20, 06:03 PM

All stations - condition desperate.

I am surprised how badly the American system does. I did not know that. They always boast with having "the best health care" in the world and the "best hospitals" in the world and "the best doctors" in the world - but its of little use. Too little of everything, and too expensive. And that was already before Trump happened to the system and cut funds for the CDC. Yestersays video by Traveller explained it "nicely". Means: the description was depressing.

Frankly IMO we have the best doctors, minds in medicine and health care in the world and I think you will see that in the long run. Even Anthony Stephen "Tony" Fauci said after its all over said and done we will probably have closer to a 1% case fatality rate. As for Europe and the rest of the world? Well, maybe you should stop worrying about our healthcare system and see if yours can come close to matching it. As far as criteria for the testing that idiot youtube alarmist drama queen was going on about. I whole heartily agree with the testimony given before congress today. CDC has 75,000 test kits available and there are 1 million kits available through commercial sources and growing. As far as criteria for getting tested, its an absolute necessity. Because you cant test every one of the 350 million tom dick and harry's in this country just because they want one and makes them feel good. It would cause an unimaginable backlog of bullcrap tests slowing down the entire process for those that really need it.

Our system of government makes the States the front line of defense the federal government is a supporting role. This is why we hear governors declaring states of emergency. It activates the mechanism which allows the state and federal government to assist in a great many ways they normally don't. We dont live in a dictatorship or centralized government. It is what is and may seem slow going at first but like all the others times in our history once the ball gets rolling watch out.

The argument that government should have done this or done that before it got to this country is a useless one. It took China at least two months before they notified the rest of the world what they were up against and a month later we finally got the genome sequence. So this virus has been out there silently doing its thing quite possibly for the last six months and long before anyone else knew about it. My advice is quit going on like bunch of hens and buckle up everyone. There is nothing you can do about it other than prepare food, reduce social contact, eat right and get your rest.

Say did hear the latest about coronavirus?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcjWeINfvQ

mapuc

03-11-20, 06:11 PM

Another thing

People are hoarding as they expect the worse.

Are they also prepared to change eating behavior ?

Eating 2-4 lesser potatoes, lesser meat and so on.

I doubt it.

Markus

Traveller

03-11-20, 06:40 PM

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 06:47 PM

Thats why they have the maximum number of cases in the shortest period of time and that is why their hospitals are drowning. Add to this that they have around 3 beds per 1000 population only, and only few of them with full intensive care equipment.

Add in that the people live in an old country very close to each other with a social bar or a small grocery store on every corner with a predominantly senior citizen population, which by your own admission are being denied hospital health care in favor of the younger citizens.

I am surprised how badly the American system does. I did not know that, only knew that it is overpriced. They always boast with having "the best health care" in the world and the "best hospitals" in the world and "the best doctors" in the world - but its of little use. Too little of everything, and too expensive. And that was already before Trump happened to the system and cut funds for the CDC. Yesterday's video by Traveller explained it "nicely". Means: the description was depressing. And scandalous.

Another fact you are missing is that only 50% of the population of America pay taxes not all can afford health care. The seniors over 65 have medicare and the poor have access to medicare if they have been pre-approved by social security. The upper people in the government have the best health care and of course the armed services Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard active duty and retired have free medical too. The government itself is one of the largest employers of the population and they have health care.

Even the illegal people that enter America have free health care provided by some unknown little law that I didn't even know about. In the state of California for example if you are an illegal alien you can apply for medical and after you are approved medical will pay your medicare dues ($144 a month) in order for the US government to provide you with health care which means that California doesn't have to foot any medical bills.

A big mystery is Japan. They try to avoid testing as consequently as they can, they do not want to loose the Olympics and so sacrifice their people for the economic goal. A victim not counted and officially registered, is a victim not existing. How much must a people get brain-washed to form a servile, suicidal mentality that they cooperate so willingly with their own destruction? Not for one minute I believe that they have the low case numbers that they report. They avoid testing as much as they can, that simple it is.

Germany , by the understanding of the officials, may be on a good way, but this understanding gets compromised again by inconsistence in deciison.making and fear not to trigger unpopular measures. The excuses they give, turn more absurd every day, at least in my understanding of what they claim. So I expect to learn over this year that Germany underperforms in this crisis and causes much more damage and losses than by its starting conditions it would have needed to accept. Its wasti8ng its chances, in other words. Heck, its one of the globe'S most potent health system, by numerical capacities - and as I see it they carelessly trade this advantage away more and more every day by delaying needed measures day by day by day by day, and so neutralising these advantages we should have enjoyed, but now probably will not, or only at a much lesser level than could have had. Wasted chances.

True as far as I believe in Travellers posting saying this is true

The problem is too complexed to figure out right now ... :hmmm:

The next problem will be the people suspected of having Covid-19 and are ordered to stay at home in self quarantine for 14 days. Who will pay their bills? How will they survive? Who will feed them?

Some reports have the Federal government paying them to stay home at a cost of over $900 billion dollars :o

All of that will be discussed tonight by President Trump on national TV beginning at 9pm est.

Panic has not really started yet in America, but it will :yep:
Already today sports teams are saying no crowds will be allowed in college or professional basketball games just the players and coaches and officials.

Seattle just today has said no groups over 350 people may attend any group gatherings :o

That includes sports and churches and business meetings. :yep:

I believe finger pointing and blame is still on the way as this is in the human nature :yep:

Traveller

03-11-20, 07:09 PM

Japan is slowly increasing testing, but not nearly enough. Total number of tests performed is now only around 9,000, but many of those are multiple tests on the same person.

From the beginning, the worthless bureaucrats have tried to cover up this pandemic by pretending Japan is immune. No testing = No infections.

There were almost zero flight restrictions until just recently. Thousands of Chinese tourists continued to flow into Japan every day until about 10 days ago. All they cared about was protecting tourism profits and the Olympic Games. Schools are now closed, and large events are being cancelled, but it's too little, too late as far as I'm concerned.

They made the same mistakes as Italy by waking up too late, and it's going to cost them dearly. Japan has the oldest population in the world (Italy is second). There will be many, many deaths here.

Italy reports at least 2,313 new cases on Wednesday. Largest daily increase so far.Italy has recorded a jump of 2,313 coronavirus cases on Wednesday, with the total tally now at 12,462, the country's Civil Protection Agency said.

This is the biggest recorded jump since the outbreak began, but the head of the Italian Civil Protection Agency Angelo Borelli said that authorities did not have all of the data for Lombardy, the worst hit region, on Tuesday so those numbers did not fully reflect the situation.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-11-20-intl-hnk/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4N09qsMdPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzXQ6Bu9JVI

STEED

03-11-20, 07:31 PM

Congratulations, WHO, somebody brought you a coffee two months ago, and today you finally managed to get a first ice-cold sip of it. :yeah:

The first time I watched them on the news and wondered who is pulling your strings or are they so bloody incompetent. It was clear this virus was spreading like wild fire in China and was going to spread around the world, anyone drinking coffee could see that!

W.H.O's cheese has slid off the cracker and the light is on but no one is home.

And now for STEED's tip of the day.....

When you see no toilet paper on the shelf's in your supermarket buy a copy of the Daily Mail. :03: :D :)

Just like me, thanks to morons panic buying you bunch of selfish b'stards.

d@rk51d3

03-11-20, 08:00 PM

India just cancelled all visas, and has basically closed borders for the next 4 weeks.

Daughter was due to fly out in a few days to visit my sister.

Skybird

03-11-20, 08:05 PM

Frankly IMO we have the best doctors, minds in medicine and health care in the world and I think you will see that in the long run. Even Anthony Stephen "Tony" Fauci said after its all over said and done we will probably have closer to a 1% case fatality rate. As for Europe and the rest of the world? Well, maybe you should stop worrying about our healthcare system and see if yours can come close to matching it. As far as criteria for the testing that idiot youtube alarmist drama queen was going on about. I whole heartily agree with the testimony given before congress today. CDC has 75,000 test kits available and there are 1 million kits available through commercial sources and growing. As far as criteria for getting tested, its an absolute necessity. Because you cant test every one of the 350 million tom dick and harry's in this country just because they want one and makes them feel good. It would cause an unimaginable backlog of bullcrap tests slowing down the entire process for those that really need it.

I disagree, your country is one of the latest testing starters of all, for the initial few test there were, were designed to do multiple tricks, and one of these tricks failed and made all the kit unusable. The capacity for lab analysis was terribly low and now needs to slowly get boosted up. Traveller posted that videoyesterday that clearly listed how terrirbly slow and ignorrant the start phase so far has been. The cDC errected artifical bureaucratic hurdles that seem to have been designed to make testing as difficult if not impossible as they could manage. By now, the virus has had wonderful conditions to spread, thanks to the failing ability n dwillingness of the CDC to tackle it early.

I leave out a discussion on health care costs for the most here, just leave it to that in the Us you pay roughly twice as much for general the same or slightly inferior total medical performance for the average Joe (who can afford it) compared to the - already expensive - German system, and as I pointed out earlier, Germany has almost three times as many beds in hospitals per 1000 people of population, than the US, the hospital density is much higher over here. The numbers and tables were given by me two days ago, look them up. The university quality may be higher in the US, it certainly is so, but for getting the treatment to the masses that now need it, your system has set up a very bad start, and this will cost your people dearly. Too many weeks were wasted - like in Iran's and Italy's case, the difference maybe is that the average age of the Us population is not as old and so the lethality of the virus does not score as successful as in these two coutnries. We will see.

My comments and criticsm were numbers- and fact oriented, and not meant to just attack you country. Your patriotism thus is a bit out of place. No attack was meant nor carried out. I just say that the US has had a very awful start at this, and that I was surprised that this is so. If you follow the videos posted by Traveller you know that I am by far not the first observing this. It has been noticed and commented on already by smarter and more competent minds than me.

Our system of government makes the States the front line of defense the federal government is a supporting role. This is why we hear governors declaring states of emergency. It activates the mechanism which allows the state and federal government to assist in a great many ways they normally don't. We dont live in a dictatorship or centralized government. It is what is and may seem slow going at first but like all the others times in our history once the ball gets rolling watch out.Your system in this regard is like ours, Germany is of a federalist structure with 16 Bundesländer that compare to your 50 states, and in this the central national health ministry indeed has surprisingly little to command and the initiative and authority mostly lies with the individual Länder. Not different than what you say about the US.

Your late start however is up against an enemy much stronger than the Japanese power and industry in WWII - you are up against logarithmic progression, and you seem to completely underestimate that. This exponential growth of infections has run since days and weeks, unopposed for the most. And this fact will make itself felt, trust me. You cant imrpess mathematics with patriotism.

Exponential developments are hard to imagine for us humans, and students find it hard to mentally wrap their mind about what it is and how it is calculated. I find it hostile ground to calculate, too. Still, helpful is to visualise the effects. Today I red a nice new way of demonstrating it. The autor said there are two men doing 30 steps each of them. The first does 30 steps with linear length, always the same step length. The secod has his step length, due to miracle shoes, exponentially growing with every step, doubling the step length. After thirty steps, the first man got around 30 meters far. The second man has surrounded Earth one and a half times. And then there is the old classical story of the chessboard and the rice corn, which I found a nice video illustration for here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWXLNPrVhfw
Skip the German narration and jump to the illustration starting at 02:40.

That is the sort of power we are up against. Nurses will get ill and drop out of the workforce. So will doctors. This with limited bed capacities, exponentially growing patient numbers, increasing consummation of supplies with masks and protective clothing. Tnhats why it was so important to stretch the developemnt over time. The same number of people will ge till, but not all in the same short time intervall, but in a logner time interval, that gives relief to the system.

And this is just the first wave, guys. It will go until late summer, then there will be a drop, quarantines will be dropped, population still is far from having an immunization level to stop the virus, and so it will then start again. Maybe with a mutated format. Many seasonal flus are not just one season of the year, but come in waves of two, in late winter to early spring, and then again in late summer to early autumn - and the second often has twice as high amplitudes in case numbers. If it goes like this with Covid19, then the fun has not even started for us.

One of the videos by Traveller shows a calculation for the existing storages in masks and protective suits in the US at that time, a few days ago, it shows how fast these will be consummed up once the show is in full swing, and nurses and doctors dropping out of the duty scheme due to gettin ill, themselves. the suplies will last - for TWO DAYS. Key materials for filters come from - China.

Come to your senses, Rockstar. Your optimism has absolutely no justification currently. Not if there will not be a miracle.

The argument that government should have done this or done that before it got to this country is a useless one. It took China at least two months before they notified the rest of the world what they were up against and a month later we finally got the genome sequence. So this virus has been out there silently doing its thing quite possibly for the last six months and long before anyone else knew about it. My advice is quit going on like bunch of hens and buckle up everyone. There is nothing you can do about it other than prepare food, reduce social contact, eat right and get your rest.
Still your country wasted precious weeks with not being able to run tests because the few existing kits did not work. Give it up, Rockstar. And stop taking what I say personally or as an offense. Its no attack aimed at your country, I am pointing out the obvious, or better: I just repeat what criticla epxerts have pointed out long before me or Traveller.You should not defend how your leaders have performed so far (you have no reaosn to celebrate them for it), but you should fume in anger and let them know what mess they have created. Demonstrating in the streets currently cannot be recommended, however.

We are royally screwed. Our only luck currently is that this virus - is a relatively friendly one. Else we could be in a fight for the mere survival of our species and civilization now. And maybe this is the good thing about Covid-19. That it may kill scores and does huge economic damage, yes - but with all force sticks our noses into the giant holes in your pandemic emergency plans and bad preparation and underfunded reserve keepings, making us aware of how weak our defences are. Showing us that for the big bad bug coming we need to dramatically imrpove our preparation effort in advance. Need to get fire under politicians' rears, The number of virus pandemics coming from Asia has increased in past twenty years, their frequency speeds up, It will speed up further, and it is only a question of time until the real bad monster bug will be amongst it. If then we play the game like we play it this time, man is toast.

-----

I have informed my parents today that we will not personally meet any time soon again, I am too afraid that I infect them with a virus while not knowing that I already maybe carrying it. I would never forgiove myself that. I also told them that I will do their shoppings from immediately on, once a week, they send me a list, and I buy it and leave it on their doorstep, I will not enter the appartment. Google Duo via WLAN suddenly becomes a blessing. They should get out and do their walks, and biyccle tours - but not in town, but in free space and nature, and I do not want them to expose themsleves to the risk by entering shops and supermarkets. At their age, and with their health status, they have a risk of 20-30% that it ends deadly for them if they catch the infection. Already now, with still a few free beds in intense care.

In very short time, there will be no more free beds. Exponential growth you know.

Everybody should keep on mind: after you got infected, you turn infectous yourself after 12-18 hours, and form symptoms telling you are ill after 5 days. These are average values that often seem to get met. This means for 3.3 days you can walk around and infect other people, even those who are dear to you - and you do not even know you infect them, because you do not know that you are ill. ACT ACCORDINGLY!!!

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 08:21 PM

Tom Hanks has corvid-19, I bet this shakes up a lot of people.

https://deadline.com/2020/03/tom-hanks-rita-wilson-test-positive-coronavirus-elvis-presley-movie-1202880431/

Skybird

03-11-20, 08:36 PM

The first time I watched them on the news and wondered who is pulling your strings or are they so bloody incompetent. It was clear this virus was spreading like wild fire in China and was going to spread around the world, anyone drinking coffee could see that!

W.H.O's cheese has slid off the cracker and the light is on but no one is home.

And now for STEED's tip of the day.....

When you see no toilet paper on the shelf's in your supermarket buy a copy of the Daily Mail. :03: :D :)

"Fantastic! I'm saved!"

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/ueberleben_ts/25626918/2-format1007.jpg

Skybird

03-11-20, 09:22 PM

Tom Hanks has corvid-19, I bet this shakes up a lot of people.

https://deadline.com/2020/03/tom-hanks-rita-wilson-test-positive-coronavirus-elvis-presley-movie-1202880431/
You are behind Italy by 1.5 to 2 weeks - your people will soon be shaken much more dramatically than just one ill actor.

August

03-11-20, 09:27 PM

You are behind Italy by 1.5 to 2 weeks - your people will soon be shaken much more dramatically than just one ill actor.

It might be a bit more disconcerting to the people of Australia which is where Hanks and his wife contracted the virus, and where they still remain BTW, but please, do go on chicken little.

Rockstar

03-11-20, 09:27 PM

In very short time, there will be no more free beds. Exponential growth you know.

Exponential growth is unconstrained growth. Once containment measures begin that calculation can no longer be applied. We have since moved on to the complicated and more realistic Verhulst model. Unlike poor Italy, and Iran the medical professionals and facilities in my country will have a considerably profound affect on it's growth because they are among the best in the world.

https://services.math.duke.edu/education/ccp/materials/diffeq/logistic/logi1.html

Mr Quatro

03-11-20, 09:33 PM

It might be a bit more disconcerting to the people of Australia which is where Hanks and his wife contracted the virus, and where they still remain BTW, but please, do go on chicken little.

:haha::up::yep::yeah:

Maybe Reece could keep them company ... one things for sure they ain't coming back to the states anytime soon :oops:

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 10:00 PM

You are behind Italy by 1.5 to 2 weeks - your people will soon be shaken much more dramatically than just one ill actor.

Yeah, true but it is Tom Hanks!

Meanwhile, I guess you saw this

Angela Merkel says she expects around 60-70 per cent of Germans will be infected with the coronavirus, which equates to about 53 million people.

Reportedly, the German Parliament fell completely silent when Merkel stated the number.

https://summit.news/2020/03/10/merkel-expects-60-70-per-cent-of-germans-to-be-infected-with-coronavirus/

Is that real? Or fake news? Not sure here.

Exponential growth is unconstrained growth. Once containment measures begin that calculation can no longer be applied. We have since moved on to the complicated and more realistic Verhulst model. Unlike poor Italy, and Iran the medical professionals and facilities in my country will have a considerably profound affect on it's growth because they are among the best in the world.

Actually, I don't think the quality of the health facilities has as much to do with as people will freak out and get serious about staying home once the numbers explode. Once the numbskulls realize they are in it, there will be some serious social distancing. Just my opinion.

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 10:27 PM

It might be a bit more disconcerting to the people of Australia which is where Hanks and his wife contracted the virus, and where they still remain BTW, but please, do go on chicken little.

He's probably right, we are about 2 weeks behind Italy.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESshSpfWAAECPLR.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESshSpfWAAECPLR.png

Aktungbby

03-11-20, 10:42 PM

Yipes! The NBA just cancelled the remainder of the season!

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 10:46 PM

Trump (finally) shut down air travel from Europe ... starting Friday :doh:

Aktungbby

03-11-20, 10:50 PM

Yipes! The NBA just cancelled the remainder of the season!

Trump (finally) shut down air travel from Europe ... starting Friday :doh:Case closed Mr. Moto! precedent is law! no jury duty for me! :k_confused:

Traveller

03-11-20, 11:01 PM

Tom Hanks has corvid-19
"Life is like a box of viruses. You never know which one is going to infect you."

- Coronus Gump. :D

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Reece

03-11-20, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2653816#post2653816)
Tom Hanks has corvid-19

"Life is like a box of viruses. You never know which one is going to infect you."

- Coronus Gump. :D

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Bad taste imo.

Traveller

03-11-20, 11:16 PM

Coronavirus can remain airborne for up to 3 hours.Also, the coronavirus could linger in aerosols for up to three hours, according to the study.

HCoV-19 — the name of the novel coronavirus — and SARS-CoV-1 “exhibited similar 38 half-lives in aerosols, with median estimates around 2.7 hours," the researchers wrote in the study.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-11-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Bad taste imo.
Gallows humor usually is.

Onkel Neal

03-11-20, 11:16 PM

https://i.redd.it/z3jfstqtz0m41.png

Kptlt. Neuerburg

03-12-20, 12:05 AM

^That's going the be the store I work at in a couple of days!

Meanwhile it's time to rock out..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyBtMPqpNY

vienna

03-12-20, 12:58 AM

Yipes! The NBA just cancelled the remainder of the season!

I heard not cancelled, just postponed...

There seems to be a bit of the heavy hand of kharma at play in the NBA postponement and with a few of the other cases affected by the virus:

Congressman Matt Gaetz, a Trump true believer, openly mocked Covid-19 by wearing a gas mask to the House chambers; then he was found to have been exposed to someone with the virus and and to have hitched a ride with Trump on Air Force One; now he is in self quarantine, has potentially also exposed Trump to the virus, and reduced, for a bit, to spend a night like a homeless person:

Matt Gaetz ended up sleeping in a Walmart parking lot after potentially exposing Trump to the coronavirus --

https://www.businessinsider.com/gaetz-slept-in-walmart-lot-after-potentially-exposing-trump-to-coronavirus-2020-3

When he sported a gas mask on the House floor last week, critics questioned how seriously Rep. Matt Gaetz was taking the coronavirus outbreak.

But following his self-quarantine aboard Air Force One on Monday after he had been in close contact with President Donald Trump — in the same car on the way to the flight — Gaetz hit the road and skipped staying in a hotel, electing instead to spend the night in a Walmart parking lot.

"I slept in a Walmart parking lot somewhere off [Interstate] 85," Gaetz told the Pensacola News Journal from his car as he completed the drive to Florida on Tuesday.

Then there is Congressman Mark Meadows, another Trump true-believer, who was also exposed to someone with the virus and is now also in self quarantine; however, the really big problem is he was just a couple of days ago appointed by Trump as his new White House Chief-Of-Staff -- oops!:

Trump’s Incoming Chief Of Staff Under Self-Quarantine After Contact With CPAC Coronavirus Patient --

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-chief-of-staff-meadows-self-quarantine-coronavirus-cpac

Given how much of a reputed germaphobe Trump is, such near contact must be driving him bonkers, particularly since he was filmed having a bit of a prolonged handshake with Congressman Doug Collins, another person who was exposed to the virus at the CPAC...

And, finally, there is the bit of kharma related to the NBA postponement: the player who tested positive for the virus prompting the NBA to call the games off is the same player who mocked publicly, in front of the press, the virus and the actions being taken to mitigate its spread:

Jazz center Rudy Gobert joked about coronavirus, touched reporters' recorders days before positive test --

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/jazz/2020/03/11/rudy-gobert-nba-jazz-joked-coronavirus-touched-reporters-recorders-interview/5028089002/

Goes around: Comes around...

Did any one else think Trump looked particularly pained when he gave his brief address on Wednesday night? He was so stilted and awkward it kind of reminded me of one of those hostage videos where someone is holding up cue cards with the demands while another person holds a gun on the hostage speaking; did anyone see if maybe Trump was trying to send a hidden signal, you know like blinking out Morse code or something? Or, maybe, he was inwardly contemplating how he has royally screwed the pooch and frittering away his hopes of reeleection... :haha:

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