Wuhan virus 2020

[Onkel Neal]

Stay on topic, no trolling, keep political posts in the proper thread.

[Hitman]

WHO have said the death ratio(correct ?) is somewhere around 3 %.

I guess this must be an average percentage.

Because it's little higher in Italy and most likely a lot higher in Iran and other not so develop countries.

Markus

It is an average yes, in Italy it's around 6% but you need to factor that:

- Population is older in EU on average and has conditions like obesity, high blood pressure (Salty diet) etc that are a disadvantage

- Once the health system is overloaded, you can't treat effectively many of the cases that could normally be salvaged.

[August]

Stay on topic, no trolling, keep political posts in the proper thread.


Well it might be off topic but to answer Skybirds latest attack:



Responding to the report, a U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed. The U.S. government has spoken with many (more than 25) companies that claim they can help with a vaccine. Most of these companies already received seed funding from U.S. investors.”
“We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found would be shared with the world,” the U.S. official added.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-usa/germany-tries-to-stop-u-s-from-luring-away-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN2120IV

[Catfish]

I would be very glad if the rumours about the outbuying are wrong.

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, there is always a blend where topics meet, but going forward let's all try to keep direct politics in other threads.

[Skybird]

That is a very informative link Skybird, thanks.
Just do not foirget that all those numbers and porjections are base don those numbers that official counts have estalbished. But we must assume that most cases that go mild, never get known to the authorities, but nevertheless infested others. So the real dimension imo must be pretty much worse. It may vary from place to place and coutnry to country, but I think nowhere they know the full spectrum of the numbers in the wild. Just the algorithms stay the same.


I see you got hit pretty badly down there in Spain. Take care of yourself. I need somebody to occasionally fight with over that Catalan issue. ;)

[August]

Nobody with a sane mind believes what a Trulymp speaker claims these days. Except sectarian converts, of course.


You think that anyone who disagrees with you is insane.

[Hitman]

Just do not foirget that all those numbers and porjections are base don those numbers that official counts have estalbished. But we must assume that most cases that go mild, never get known to the authorities, but nevertheless infested others. So the real dimension imo must be pretty much worse. It may vary from place to place and coutnry to country, but I think nowhere they know the full spectrum of the numbers in the wild. Just the algorithms stay the same.

Yes, my thoughts also. When some cases were detected already days ago in areas with no possible explanation or contact with infected people, you knew the virus must have been running around for longer. Again, the 80/15/5 applies, pray you are in the 80% and as soon as you get immunized, volunteer to help people like bring food to houses etc.

I need somebody to occasionally fight with over that Catalan issue

Well the catalan government has already yelled about the measures taken by the spanish ones, saying this is an illegal confiscation of their attributions - but that is food for another topic indeed :haha:

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, my thoughts also. When some cases were detected already days ago in areas with no possible explanation or contact with infected people, you knew the virus must have been running around for longer. Again, the 80/15/5 applies, pray you are in the 80% and as soon as you get immunized, volunteer to help people like bring food to houses etc.



Well the catalan government has already yelled about the measures taken by the spanish ones, saying this is an illegal confiscation of their attributions - but that is food for another topic indeed :haha:


Yes, once someone has gotten and recovered from the disease - as long as we really know for sure they cannot get again and spread it - it means the rate of transmission will begin to slow.

[Skybird]

part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIuzLf9f5WI


part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMXekRVnHo

Italy, Spain, the US and France all being described in the second video. One sentence on Germany.

To say he is not optimistic for the UK, would be an understatement. But the US most likely will get a trashing. Only a vaccine can save it somewhat. For flattening the curve, the US probably just is way too late. Some say it would take the US tens times longer than other countries.

The man is cult. Fox reported about him. Good man. Britishness at its best. I like his way. And I like that he uses paper and pencil instead of powerpoint.

He ends with mentioning that if we would have a vaccine in 2021, this would be the by far fastest development for a virus vaccine that medicine has ever managed to produce. Usually, this takes several years. Or a decade. Or longer.

[mapuc]

Some hours ago I read there was more cases of infected Italian despite their government had close down the entire Italy.

When reading this I recalled an article from iflscience, where they had discovered the virus could survive up to 3 on different surface and 3 hours in the air.

Could it be that this Corona not only infect on contact between people but also indirectly ?

A person unknowing s/he is infected goes into a store and plants virus around the store, even though this person have washed his/her hands before leaving their home and another fresh person get indirectly infected afterwards.

Markus

[August]

Could it be that this Corona not only infect on contact between people but also indirectly ?

A person unknowing s/he is infected goes into a store and plants virus around the store, even though this person have washed his/her hands before leaving their home and another fresh person get indirectly infected afterwards.

Markus


From what I read that is very accurate. I understand that the virus can live on some surfaces for days.

[Skybird]

Some hours ago I read there was more cases of infected Italian despite their government had close down the entire Italy.

When reading this I recalled an article from iflscience, where they had discovered the virus could survive up to 3 on different surface and 3 hours in the air.

Could it be that this Corona not only infect on contact between people but also indirectly ?

A person unknowing s/he is infected goes into a store and plants virus around the store, even though this person have washed his/her hands before leaving their home and another fresh person get indirectly infected afterwards.

Markus
Yeah, sure, that is what hygiene is about. Smear infecitons are real. Bob catches the bug. 12 hours later he is infectous, but not before 2-12 days (mostly 5-7) days he forms symptoms that make hiom aware of that he is infectous. Until then he touches light switches, door grips, thing sint eh supermarketr he oputs back ont he shelve. He is what they call a "spreader".

As you said the virus lives up to three hours in the aerosol from your breath, and 3 days on plastic and steel surfaces.

N ext comes Barbvara. She used the door opener Bob has used two days before, or the elevator switch, or the holding grip in the bus. Then he touches her hair or her face, her eyes, he rlips. Bobs bugs are no Barabar'S bugs as well. Bug finds entreance throught he eyes, nose, mouth. Et voila - two infected people.

I currently do not buy unpacked vegetable and fruits in supermarkets. In fact I avoid going to the supermarket, I have massively reduced my frequency. Every visit exposes me to risks - with no cure and no late vaccination available. Also, I use hygiene cleaning swipes on all items I bought, glasses, tetrapacks, apples, or eash them with soap (1) under warm water, even fruits I wash with soap and hot water and with a brush. All those peopel havign walked by the shelves with the apples and fruits, breathing down on them...


People, think of it. You just cannot go on as usual anymore. You may not even out yoursewlf at risk. But your old grandpa. Or your old mum.

Today, I made a walk, it was warm and sunny weather. Most people kept distance, but then I came by a fairground for children - and some sdupid moms were sitting there and did what women do best when herding up: sitting tightly together and having a babble, and their kids were playing together and sneezing and breathign at each other and so forth. I vcounted them, fifteen it were. A small school class.

Obviously none of these empty nuts had any clue on why schools and kindergardens have been shut down, and all sport clubs and so forth. Passing them, I adressed them on that, politely, curious, not agressively, but also not too friendly. They looked at me as if I were a Martian, and when i left, I heard one saying "hysteric."

Many, many people have still not understood what this is about, what they are in, and what is coming down on us. I am certain however that it is just days away now when this will dramatically change for them. I expect curfews in Germany as well. The home-quarantining of everbyody can last anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months. If then I see stupid bitches bitching around like this, I would even call the police.



People must form a mentality of wartimes for this. And that we are under siege. We are.


Most people still have not wrapped their minds around the catastrophe we all are in. It just is outside their perception radius or imagination or whatever, I have no clue what is wrong with them. It just escapes my understanding.

We are in the middle of a history-changing worst case event.

[mapuc]

Those "spreaders"

From what I have read about this so far is they are accused of not spreading the disease indirectly but by close contact.

It's only through my science article and here in this group I have read about this virus possibility to survive outside an infected body.
(it's not only me who have mentioned it)

There haven't been anything about it on the news here in Denmark or in Sweden and in the news I have seen from Germany(mostly Heute on ZDF)or teletext.

Markus

[Traveller]

Another recovered patient in Japan reinfected a second time.Officials in western Japan's Mie Prefecture say a man who was a passenger on a cruise ship that was hit by the coronavirus has again tested positive after recovering from infection.

The man, who is in his 70s, first tested positive for the virus on February 14 while he was onboard the Diamond Princess, which was under quarantine off Yokohama.

He left a medical facility in Tokyo on March 2 after he was confirmed negative. He returned to his home in Mie by public transportation.

But he started to feel sick and developed a fever of 39 degrees Celsius on Thursday. He went to hospital on Friday, and on Saturday was confirmed to be infected again.

He is now receiving treatment at a hospital in the prefecture.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200315_13/

Looks like a different strain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efaDuE-XEi4


10 million confirmed infections in the US predicted by April 15. Also, more than half of all Dutch coronavirus patients in ICU are under 50 years old.

[mapuc]

There should be two type of Corona Strain if i understand it correctly, despite some scientist say they are the same or almost the same.

Have also heard the L-strain should be tougher(not the correct word)than the S-strain.

Markus

[Traveller]

Yes, the L-strain is supposed to be the newer and deadlier one. Since COVID-19 is part of the larger coronavirus family, my greatest fear is that it may start to rapidly mutate into hundreds of different strains like cold viruses do every year (which are also part of the larger coronavirus family). If that does happen, there will be no effective vaccine or herd immunity. But let's pray that it won't.

[Buddahaid]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51895246

As I stated earlier about Trump, he's now closing the barn doors but the cows have left a long time ago. Waiting for his blame game to start now.



President Donald Trump tweeted on Sunday that the US is "doing very precise Medical Screenings at our airports".

"Pardon the interruptions and delays, we are moving as quickly as possible, but it is very important that we be vigilant and careful. We must get it right. Safety first!"

The US has more than 2,700 confirmed cases, with 54 deaths.

[Mr Quatro]

Yes, the L-strain is supposed to be the newer one. Since COVID-19 is part of the larger coronavirus family, my greatest fear is that it may start to rapidly mutate into hundreds of different strains like cold viruses do every year (which are also part of the larger coronavirus family). If that does happen, there will be no effective vaccine or herd immunity. But let's pray that it won't.

I don't think that this is the end of time as man knows it nor is it one of the plagues listed in the Book of Revelations, but it is world wide and it is a wake up call.

I doubt if anything will be the same after this virus is put to rest and even then it will flare up somewhere in the world.

If it is from God there is nothing we can do about it ... You can't tell Him what to do. I do pray that we come out of this a better nation in that we love each other and care about our neighbors more. :yep:

https://listverse.com/2009/01/18/top-10-worst-plagues-in-history/
Top 10 Worst Plagues In History

[Skybird]

Another recovered patient in Japan reinfected a second time.https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200315_13/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efaDuE-XEi4


10 million confirmed infections in the US predicted by April 15. Also, more than half of all Dutch coronavirus patients in ICU are under 50 years old.


I get a worse and worse and worse feeling about all this going, from day to day my guts feeling gets worse. Chris mentions the many examples illustrating people acting in reality denial - still! - , and I compare it with the many examples of reality-denial that I see over here, in my own little part of directly perceived reality. People are totally and completely in reality denial mode over here.

And there simply is all this stupidity around.


3 a.m. over here, good night everybody. Although there are no good nights left these days.

[Traveller]

I get a worse and worse and worse feeling about all this going, from day to day my guts feeling gets worse.Same here. It now appears this virus is much more dangerous to younger people than governments and media were first reporting.

More than half of coronavirus cases in France under intensive care are below the age of 60.More than half of France's 300 coronavirus patients in intensive care are under the age of 60, according to the head of the country's national health agency."

“We have counted this evening 300 serious cases in intensive care. We have serious cases also amid adults and let me remind you that more than 50% of people in intensive care are under 60," Jerome Salomon said at a news conference on Saturday."

Salomon did not specify the age range of those under 60.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-16-20-intl-hnk/index.html

Always follow your gut instinct, but try not to worry too much and get plenty of rest. As you already know, adequate sleep is one of the best ways to protect your immune system. :)

[Jeff-Groves]

Ohio closed all the schools and Bars and restaurants must close at 9 PM.
Hope they let me back into the State when I'm done in Kentucky!

[Catfish]

In our company we are now switching to home office, but nothing is prepared.. will try to mobilise two laptops using a VPN connection so we can log on to the domain.
But our company switched away from Telecom to some other private company and it seems the VPN-client is not compatible with that and our routers .. oh joy.

[Traveller]

Troubling information from Amazon delivery driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_3zDlqCTTw

Apparently Amazon sub-contractor delivery drivers in his area are delivering about half as many packages as normal due to low inventories in the warehouses- I'm guessing due to less sales because of product shortages from China. This information is anecdotal and cannot be verified, so take it for what it's worth.

Also, here are two comments under the video that really stood out. Again, they are anecdotal and cannot be verified, but I thought I'd share them none the less. Either way, shortages are coming soon due to the factories shut down in China. I'm on an armored car crew in Ohio and multiple managers at several rural Walmarts told me last week the company canceled all management orders for their stores and to be ready for one or two extra large truck orders and then that would be it till further notice. Take it for what it's worth folks.I was told by a Dollar Tree employee...they can't order anymore, they just receive what corporate sends them.

[Skybird]

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/the_wuhan_virus_escaped_from_a_chinese_lab.html





Yes, since decades we play way too soft with China.

[Skybird]

[B]This is important. Take note of it! About fever, Covid-19 and NSAIDs



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuWo5lmWuZI

[Traveller]

This is important. Take note of it! About fever, Covid-19 and NSAIDs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuWo5lmWuZI

Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Skybird. Regardless of what the German and Irish media is claiming, it looks like it may not have been fake news after all. Here are a couple of good articles on the topic:Fevers aren’t always a bad sign; you may even have heard that mild fevers are a good indication that your immune system is doing its job. But fevers aren’t just a byproduct of our immune response.

In fact, it’s the other way around: an elevated body temperature triggers cellular mechanisms that ensure the immune system takes appropriate action against the offending virus or bacteria.

So say researchers hailing from two academic institutions in the United Kingdom: the University of Warwick in Coventry and the University of Manchester.https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321889#A-temperature-sensitive-signaling-pathway

Evidence supports a beneficial effect of an elevated temperature as well as a possible adverse effect of fever on the clinical outcome of an infection. Most mammals, reptiles, amphibians and fish experience an elevated core temperature during an infection, suggesting that fever is part of an adaptive host defense response. The metabolically expensive increase in body temperature that accompanies an infection seems unlikely to have evolved unless fever benefits the host. Perhaps some physiological alterations that occur during a febrile response may be responsible for increased resistance to infection.

Certain observations suggest a beneficial relationship between elevated temperature and outcome of an infection. Microbes may replicate less efficiently at an elevated temperature than at a normal temperature. Certain immune responses such as leukocyte migration may be enhanced at higher temperatures. However, treatment of fever is based on the assumption that fever has a harmful effect and that reducing an elevated temperature will be beneficial.

Available evidence does not provide a clear understanding as to whether fever impairs or enhances the host’s immune response to infection. https://www.aappublications.org/news/2019/05/03/idsnapshot050319

A recent study in the journal Pediatrics shows that 91 percent of parents surveyed thought that a fever can cause harmful effects, with 56 percent of caregivers very worried about the potential harm of fevers for their own children. And 89 percent of parents reached for such fever reducers as acetaminophen and ibuprofen before temperatures reached 102 degrees.

Why should any of this matter? Because it is often not necessary -- and may not even be wise -- to be too quick to rush for the medicine cabinet when your child has a fever. "Nothing bad is going to happen if you don't treat the fever," says Dr. Ari Brown, a pediatrician in Austin, Texas, and spokesperson for the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). She's also author of Baby 411: Clear Answers and Smart Advice for Your Baby's First Year (Windsor Peak).

A fever, not surprisingly, indicates that your child is fighting off some kind of infection, such as a simple cold, the flu, or an ear infection. It is not an illness in itself. In fact, a fever may do some good. A study published in the February 2004 Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology found that children who ran a fever during their first year were less likely to develop allergies later in childhood than children who did not have fever.

More importantly, according to the AAP, a fever can help your child's body fight off infection. Many illness-causing microbes do best at the body's normal temperature. A fever raises the temperature beyond which certain microbes need to reproduce. A fever also kicks your child's immune system into high gear, spurring the rapid production of bug-clobbering white blood cells. A small but growing body of research shows that letting a fever run its course may reduce the length and severity of such illnesses as colds and flu.

As for the concern among parents that fevers can have harmful effects, these instances are very rare. The brain has an internal regulatory mechanism that prevents fevers caused by infections from getting higher than 105 or 106 degrees. Body temperature must get above 108 degrees to cause damage. Temperatures this high are caused only by exceptional circumstances, such as central nervous system disorders or heatstroke.
https://www.parents.com/health/fever/fever-benefits/

[Skybird]

British NHS expects outbreak to last for 12 months at least.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjxNNuJgi8

[STEED]

UK Government calls for the "Blitz spirit" again, feel free to bomb us Germany. :D

You know we are in a deep swamp when they come out saying that rubbish.

Just to add still no toilet rolls at my local supermarket, the weight of the dust will be bring down those shelf's soon. :03:

[Skybird]

A simple flu.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFgq1oYo1N4


No comment.

[Traveller]

Massive new grave ditches being dug in Iran.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjuWyXzKBIw

[Skybird]

The years 2020 2021 are marked to stand out in my life's biography, that much is certain. For the younger generations, it will be two years lost like in a big war.


I pray that this will not be the time when other additional hardships hit us, nationally. Power blackouts, IT network collapses.



Whereever you live, prepare for curfew coming and lasting for long time.

[Traveller]

Wherever you live, prepare for curfew coming and lasting for long time. I completely agree. It's the only way to flatten the curve.

[Jimbuna]

Boris Johnson will outline the next steps in the UK's plan to fight coronavirus at the first of a series of daily news conferences.

The briefing will follow a Cobra meeting which is expected to look at what steps the government could take to protect elderly and vulnerable people.

The over-70s have been told they are allowed to go out for walks when their lengthy self-isolation period begins.

A total of 35 people have died in the UK after contracting Covid-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51901818

[ikalugin]

Well we are closing down schools and universities here, atleast till the big elections/referendum day (22nd of April).


Roskomnadzor reported yesterday that a total of ~110k tests were made by that point.


https://www.rospotrebnadzor.ru/about/info/news/news_details.php?ELEMENT_ID=13993

So far atleast in my local area there were no runs on the supermarkets (but then I am in a fairly low density area in terms of actual residents).

[Mr Quatro]

I think this would help us on if we have the Covid-19 or just a flu or cold

I'm still not sure what I have still coughing this morning, but I slept without taking a cold pill so that's a good sign.

Waiting for a drive thru to check me, but in my small rural area that might take till next year lol

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5496615.1584111464!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/covid-19-symptom-chart.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

A report from a guy who got it early. Please note the difficulty he had simply breathing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClementYChow/status/1239288969398906880

Hi guys. Have you missed me? I’ve been in the ICU fighting...wait for it...Coronavirus!

Basically had a low grade fever for a few days then a bad cough, that turned into respiratory failure. I came in and they had to put me on high flow oxygen (3 times normal)...hence ICU

My breathing was so compromised that I couldn’t keep my O2 levels up even wi 10L of oxygen

I was the first COVID19 patient in the ICU on Thursday. Now there are many more.

Important point: we really don’t know much about his virus. I’m young and not high risk, yet I am in t th he ICU with a very severe case

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

LIVE: Finland activates emergency laws. Borders will be closed, etc. (now in clause 17 and still continues)

[Skybird]

A report from a guy who got it early. Please note the difficulty he had simply breathing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClementYChow/status/1239288969398906880
This symptom is being described so often in Italy that already days ago some of their hospitals have reported that they have run out of oxygene.

Imagine that. A hospital having no more oxygene.


Honestly said I think the health systems everywhere will completely collapse. Some earlier than others, but they will be all overwhelmed in the end. And that is when the real big numbers dying begins.



It will be a long lasting travel back in time by decades.

[Traveller]

New Jersey introduces 8 p.m. curfew statewide.New Jersey residents are no longer allowed to travel from 8 p.m. ET to 5 a.m. ET, with the exception of essential travel, Gov. Phil Murphy announced today.

This remains in effect for the foreseeable future.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-16-20-intl-hnk/index.html

And so it begins... :shifty:

[Mr Quatro]

Something like 368 deaths in Italy in the last 24 hours

https://www.bing.com/search?q=italy+coronavirus&form=PRNWSR&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&refig=73c855c3425d40f3acd64147f31afbbe&sp=1&qs=FT&pq=it&sk=PRES1&sc=8-2&cvid=73c855c3425d40f3acd64147f31afbbe

As of 13 March, among nations with at least one million citizens, Italy has the world's highest per capita rate of positive coronavirus cases at 250.0 cases per million people, having more confirmed cases than all of mainland China outside Hubei province.

[Dowly]

LIVE: Finland activates emergency laws. Borders will be closed, etc. (now in clause 17 and still continues)They went nuclear. :doh:


Quick list:


Early education will continue to keep people working.
Schools will otherwise stop contact teaching, except for young children (1st to 3rd grades) of critical personnel.
Matriculation exams will be done in compressed schedule
It is recommended to avoid staying in public places. Assemblies over ten people are banned.
A whole lot of public stuff will close and private sector is recommended to follow in suit
No visiting the elderly or hospitals, except for critically ill or the spouse of someone giving birth.
Public sector workers will work remotely if possible
People over 70 are to be quarantined, except for state leadership
Increase of resources for social & health services
Increase in testing capacity
For critical personnel, some legislation concerning work time is no longer in force
Social and healthcare and security sector trained workers may be ordered to work
Movement of people may be restricted
Borders will be closed as soon as possible, except for some working over western and northern borders and trade.
Two weeks of quarantine for returning people.
Finnish Defense Force to secure continuing of operations at all situations and prepare to support other officials.

EDIT: Better list via reddit.



Statement by President Niinistö (via Google Translate):
Exception or standby are words that easily evoke a sense of fear from the background of history.

Better take words only as words. If the circumstances are clearly different from normal, we are in exceptional circumstances. If there is a need to prepare, we are on standby. The coronavirus has fundamentally changed our existence, it has been combated and we are preparing to fight it more.

Those words are also legal terms, but that doesn't make them any more dramatic. If exceptional circumstances are identified and if more powers are needed, they should be introduced.

The whole world is in an emergency. No one can judge the outcome, but we can already see that the effects are profound and lasting.

Our daily lives will inevitably change and we will face a reality where our thoughts and actions are dominated by health, livelihood and caring.

The concern is immediately and clearly understood by one's immediate circle. But in the end, it's not just that. But of all.

We need each other. It is now particularly important to support those whose work is customer service, from healthcare to store staff. The customer is still the king, but now he is concerned about the continuity of the service and taking it into consideration when doing business.

The public sector concentrates resources on protecting the weakest. Others still have a lot to do. Seen examples of neighborly help are encouraging.

The financial consequences of the first phase are particularly on companies in the service sector. Serious losses will occur to others, and the burden will have to be balanced.

A week ago, I wrote: We will endure this. We will.

[Jimbuna]

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said everyone in the UK should now avoid "non-essential" travel and contact with others and to fight coronavirus.

He said people should work from home and avoid pubs, club, theatres where possible, as part of a range of stringent new measures.

Anyone in the same house as someone who has a cough or fever will also have to isolate for 14 days, he said.

All elderly and vulnerable people must also begin self-isolating within days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51917562

[mapuc]

Old habits its hard to come by.

Earlier today I was in my neighbour town to do my weekly shopping.

There wasn't so many in the store. Around half of what it use to be during that time period.
(see if I can put down in words what I experience and that old habits is hard to come by)

When I stood in the queue, I was number 4. I stood about 1-1½ meter from the person in front of me and a little to the side due to the person behind me. This has absolutely nothing to do with this Corona. It's me as a person, my personal sphere is more than a meter.

The persons who stood in front of me was standing around 1 meters apart.
Person number two started to put her things on the black transport-thing.
She had barely finished placing her thing on this black-thing when the woman in front of me toke two step forward and stood extremely close to the other woman and started to place her thing right behind person two's thing.

This made me smile and shake my head..despite our politicians and our authorities effort to tell us to keep distance to each other...it is situation where old habits....

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

This symptom is being described so often in Italy that already days ago some of their hospitals have reported that they have run out of oxygene.

Imagine that. A hospital having no more oxygene.


Honestly said I think the health systems everywhere will completely collapse. Some earlier than others, but they will be all overwhelmed in the end. And that is when the real big numbers dying begins.


.

Yes, and we saw it coming. I truly hope all Subsim members can avoid going out as much as possible. It will help them, it well help their neighbors, and it will help the hospitals and medical professionals.

[u crank]

Canada to bar entry to all travellers who are not citizens or permanent residents

It was innevitable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-airports-screening-trudeau-covid19-coronavirus-1.5498866

Canada is barring entry to all travellers who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced today.

There will be exceptions for air crew, diplomats, immediate family members of citizens and, "at this time," U.S. citizens, Trudeau said.

The prime minister also said no one who is displaying symptoms will be permitted to board a flight to Canada, and that air operators will be required to complete a basic health assessment of every passenger based on guidelines from the Public Health Agency of Canada.

All travellers seeking entry into Canada will have to answer the health screening questions and CBSA officers will be on the lookout for visible signs of illness. They will refer any traveller who they suspect of being ill, regardless of how the traveller answered the health screening question, to public health authorities for further evaluation.

[Jimbuna]

The first human trial of a vaccine to protect against pandemic coronavirus is starting in the US later on Monday, according to reports.

A group of 45 healthy volunteers will have the jab, at the Kaiser Permanente research facility, in Seattle.

The vaccine cannot cause Covid-19 but contains a harmless genetic code copied from the virus that causes the disease.

Experts say it will still take many months to know if this vaccine, or others also in research, will work.

Scientists around the world are fast-tracking research.

And this first human trial, funded by the National Institutes of Health, sidesteps a check that would normally be conducted - making sure the vaccine can trigger an immune response in animals.

But the biotechnology company behind the work, Moderna Therapeutics, says the vaccine has been made using a tried and tested process.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51906604

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/juWXo6o.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

https://i.redd.it/n8o92ts882n41.jpg

[Dowly]

https://i.imgur.com/juWXo6o.jpg
:har::har::har::har:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/NM4n4nTc/Here-are-some-COVID-19-memes-just-for-laughs-4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/47Yw4BBL)

[Skybird]

I counted today (yes, different to opposing rumours I can count, its the keyboard hacking i have a quarrel with ...), and what I coutned were ambulance sirens.

Usually, i hear one every two or three days. At max, so it maybe is even less.

Today I heard eleven, and that was just the daylight hours.

The medics definitely are all over the place.

[Rockstar]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UtoJ0v92_hk/T8tE_3ApC5I/AAAAAAAAF7k/ds-5mXCv7RE/s640/Escape+From+New+York+(1981)+DVD.jpg

[Hitman]

I counted today (yes, different to opposing rumours I can count, its the keyboard hacking i have a quarrel with ...), and what I coutned were ambulance sirens.

Usually, i hear one every two or three days. At max, so it maybe is even less.

Today I heard eleven, and that was just the daylight hours.

The medics definitely are all over the place.

I think the noticeable cease in other activities causes less background noise in the city so it's easier to hear them from a bigger distance, at least here. There are sure many more ambulance services, though with the little to none traffic I doubt much they have a special need to put the siren on, plus unlike heart strokes or accidents, coronavirus patients are not *usually* in a death or life situation during the trip that requires them to rush through the city.

As in wartime situation, industry takes some time to respond and start pumping out equipment (ventilators, oxygen, etc) in big numbers, but what worries me is that once a fabric is at full speed you can maybe produce ventilators by the thousands every hour, but who is qualified to operate them? Sanitary personnel (nurses, medics) is not something you train overnight exactly ...

But we will see. It is true the pandemic is shaping up to be long and hard, but one should not ignore the industrial capacity the modern western countries have. What causes so many deaths is partly us falling below the level the health system can cope with (Not huge to start with) but on a mid to long term and with a war-like economic turn it will be increased, hospital facilities built, ventilators produced and, at some point a vaccine will appear. Sadly it will be too late for many :wah:

[Skybird]

I think the noticeable cease in other activities causes less background noise in the city so it's easier to hear them from a bigger distance, at least here. There are sure many more ambulance services, though with the little to none traffic I doubt much they have a special need to put the siren on, plus unlike heart strokes or accidents, coronavirus patients are not *usually* in a death or life situation during the trip that requires them to rush through the city.

As in wartime situation, industry takes some time to respond and start pumping out equipment (ventilators, oxygen, etc) in big numbers, but what worries me is that once a fabric is at full speed you can maybe produce ventilators by the thousands every hour, but who is qualified to operate them? Sanitary personnel (nurses, medics) is not something you train overnight exactly ...

But we will see. It is true the pandemic is shaping up to be long and hard, but one should not ignore the industrial capacity the modern western countries have. What causes so many deaths is partly us falling below the level the health system can cope with (Not huge to start with) but on a mid to long term and with a war-like economic turn it will be increased, hospital facilities built, ventilators produced and, at some point a vaccine will appear. Sadly it will be too late for many :wah:
Notiocable cease in activities? Not here. Germans sitll behave and act as if nothignn happened. And buy the shelves empty. Friday schools and kindergardne got shut down to prevent the kids form herding together. Sunday I see stupid mamas as close togetehr as possible at a playing zone in a green zone, and over a dozen of the kids crawlign over each other and breathign and sneezing into each other. These stupid mamas have not udnerstood a signle thing of what has happend all arpound us, nothing.



No, its deifnetly more sirens out there, the noise has not yet dropped so that one would note the difefrence. You notice that effect on sundays, because on Sundays this arch-Catholic town is as dead as a grave.

[Skybird]

Just in: EU closes all outer borders.

[mapuc]

Conspiracy have it's golden era.

Markus

[Skybird]

Wall Street takes a bashign again. I wonder: what if it is not a virus that escaped a military lab, but a deliberate Chinese attack on the US economy and Dollar? Of course it would equal an act of war against all the rest of the world, and against mankind. They would need to let it sappear like breach at some lab. I mean a reigme that massacres tens of thousands on the Tianmen Plaza and hundreds of thousands in Tibet, can not be expected to care more for the victims this scenario now costs. Even more so while most of the victims are no Chinese citizens anyway. Its a murderous, imperially organised feudal mafia regime, lets not forget that.

[Jeff-Groves]

Well. If it was made in China it won't last long.

[Catfish]

Well. If it was made in China it won't last long. :haha:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Well. If it was made in China it won't last long.Proapbly not but atleast you can produce it dirt cheap! :O:

[em2nought]

Wall Street takes a bashign again. I wonder: what if it is not a virus that escaped a military lab, but a deliberate Chinese attack on the US economy and Dollar?


What if John Kerry or some major player convinced them to do it and solve the democrat's and China's "Trump" problem as well as China's "Hong Kong" problem with certain promises made for afterward. :hmmm:

[Catfish]

^ Conspiracy have it's golden era.Markus
Oh no, never. Just alternative facts.

[ikalugin]

Wall Street takes a bashign again. I wonder: what if it is not a virus that escaped a military lab, but a deliberate Chinese attack on the US economy and Dollar? Of course it would equal an act of war against all the rest of the world, and against mankind. They would need to let it sappear like breach at some lab. I mean a reigme that massacres tens of thousands on the Tianmen Plaza and hundreds of thousands in Tibet, can not be expected to care more for the victims this scenario now costs. Even more so while most of the victims are no Chinese citizens anyway. Its a murderous, imperially organised feudal mafia regime, lets not forget that.


They took -13,5 percent industrial production, -20,5 percent sales, -15,9 percent exports. And there is no need to weaponise the virus intentionally - the animals in the wet markets are already doing this.

[mapuc]

^
Oh no, never. Just alternative facts.

Only second before i wrote my comments here. I read in a comment on a friends wall. A person who was convinced it was fake news planted by NWO this was done to gain control over the masses(people)

Markus

[Skybird]

They took -13,5 percent industrial production, -20,5 percent sales, -15,9 percent exports. And there is no need to weaponise the virus intentionally - the animals in the wet markets are already doing this.
The disruptions in America, the social and political ones, might be much more severe. Maybe they see Trump and his threat to chinese economic plans as the bigger problem than ther current losses.



Do I think this scenario is likely? I give 5-15% probability, somewhere in that range. Their readiness to abuse and mass-destroy their own population if it serves the gfat cat'S interests, they have demonstrated often enough. After all, their party dictatorship makes them a feudal society, still.

[August]

https://i.redd.it/n8o92ts882n41.jpg


Really? Should be easy enough to beat then. Tanks can't move that fast.

[Skybird]

Hamster deutschlandweit ausverkauft!


LINK (https://www.welt.de/satire/article206143525/Wegen-Coronavirus-Hamster-in-Deutschland-ausverkauft.html)


Obwohl die Deutschen bekanntermaßen nicht zu Panik oder Weltuntergangsfantasien neigen, sind anscheinend viele Bundesbürger dem Rat gefolgt und haben sich mit den entsprechenden Vorräten eingedeckt, die nach Maßgabe des Zivilschutzkonzeptes der Bundesregierung für zehn Tage reichen sollen.
Das ist natürlich eine enorme Menge, zumal niemand genau vorhersagen kann, wie viele Hamster man bei einem Notfall genau verbraucht. Viele Deutsche haben sich deshalb vorsorglich mit so vielen der putzigen Nagetiere wie möglich eingedeckt.
Dummerweise war der Einzelhandel auf den Run nicht vorbereitet. „Das ist einfach unverantwortlich“, heißt es seitens des Zentralverbands Zoologischer Fachbetriebe, „Pandas und Grippewellensittiche hätten wir genug. Aber nein, es müssen ja ausgerechnet Hamster sein!“

[mapuc]

There's one area of this Corona pandemic we really haven't discussed, maybe it's because it's in a field where my knowledge isn't that great.

The psychological aspect of Corona.

From memory

many years ago I tried to follow a series on Swedish tv.

This documentary followed some coming doctors the first year of their education.

In one of the first episode they were all gathered in a big aula and some doctor/teacher was standing in front of a big black

He said to these coming doctors

"I promise you, that you during your education will suffer from some of the sickness you will read or be taught about"

So therefore how many could be suffering from what I call a fake Covid-19 ?

Edit
There shall be no misunderstanding in this-if a person have those symptoms then this person shall of course call the doctor and shall stay home 14-21 days.
Better be safe than sorry.
End of edit

Markus

[Traveller]

As the rest of the world is locking down, Japan is reopening many schools around the country today. All stores, restaurants, bars, gyms, public baths, movie theaters, etc remain open. Still practically no virus testing anywhere (only around 12,500 tests total performed). Situation normal.

Virus? What virus? The Olympic Games schedule must carry on!! :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8QiUTWVnjQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSwYGhmnwo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbcetHLOXv0

[Buddahaid]

SF Bay Area goes into voluntary lockdown tomorrow. Home sweet home. There was already a marked reduction in traffic today anyway.
https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-lockdown-coronavirus-disease-bay-area-2020-3

[Skybird]

As the rest of the world is locking down, Japan is reopening many schools around the country today. All stores, restaurants, bars, gyms, public baths, movie theaters, etc remain open. Still practically no virus testing anywhere (only around 12,500 tests total performed). Situation normal.

Virus? What virus? The Olympic Games schedule must carry on!! :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8QiUTWVnjQ


The Olympics are dead this and probably also next year.
And I wonder what nation even would be capable to finance them again in 2022.



Anyhow, the above video is interesting this time due to the financial and economic reflections from 16:06 on. Even if you do not want to watch the whole thing, watch it from there if you want to learn a bit about how this obliterates the money system further.




I started to wear my framemask when enetering shops today. I am the onmly one. Peope sdtare at me, confused, amused, some even angry. But I know two things: I sam already an idiot becasue I allowed to be shied away from doign so and so started to wear it days and days alter than I sould have started, and I know that in two weeks nobody of them will grin and laugh at me anymore. If only that blck rubber frame trhign would not look so clumsy and ugly, it really standas apart from the usual white maks you see. But it seals tghtly agauinst the skin and is efficient and allows eay breathing. Thats why it is superior. And then, its the only one I can get, because you cant get maks at all, and this is what was waiting in my survial chest since long time already, long before we even have heard of Corona.


You catch attention with that one, I tell you! :D


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UFjg1iOfL._SL1500_.jpg

[Traveller]

Thousands flock to British rock concert on Saturday.
British rock band Stereophonics shared videos from a packed concert they performed on Saturday night in Cardiff, U.K. The band retweeted posts of people criticizing them for playing to thousands amid the coronavirus (https://www.breitbart.com/tag/coronavirus/) outbreak.

“Cardiff in beautiful voice tonight!” the band said over the weekend.

“8 trucks, 4 buses, 70 crew, 26 shows done 3 to go! Thank you to all who have come to see us. See you in Manchester and Cardiff!” the rockers said (https://twitter.com/stereophonics/status/1238532391267942406?s=20) on Friday of the crew that helped put on the United Kingdom concert.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1238976755022680065

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/15/stereophonics-u-k-concert-amid-coronavirus/


140,000 pack Mexico City music festival.
While the coronavirus pandemic has led authorities around the globe to cancel concerts and sporting events, and even shut down daily activities in some places, Mexico City is going ahead with Vive Latino — one of the most important music festivals in the country.

Some acts backed out, but tens of thousands of music fans flocked on Saturday to the first day of the festival, which still expected Guns N’ Roses, Carlos Vives and Zoe to be among its headliners. Organizers said more than 70,000 tickets had been sold for each of the festival’s two days.
https://media.breitbart.com/media/2020/03/1000-25.jpeg

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/03/15/tens-of-thousands-pack-mexico-city-music-festival-despite-coronavirus-concerns/

Virus? What virus? :haha:

[Mr Quatro]

It was bound to happen sooner or later :yep:

USS Boxer Sailor Tests ‘Presumptive Positive’ for Coronavirus, First Case Found on a Ship’s Crew

https://news.usni.org/2020/03/15/uss-boxer-sailor-tests-presumptive-positive-for-coronavirus-first-case-found-on-a-ships-crew

A sailor assigned to amphibious assault ship USS Boxer (LHD-4), currently pier-side at Naval Station San Diego, Calif., was tested on Friday. Results came back on Saturday that indicated the sailor likely had the virus.

“The individual is currently quarantined at home in accordance with the Center for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines"

[ET2SN]

I started to wear my framemask when enetering shops today. I am the onmly one.

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.
The mask is a good idea if you've already been diagnosed as contagious. :yep:

When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease. :up:

[Traveller]

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.
The mask is a good idea if you've already been diagnosed as contagious. :yep:
I'm afraid this is incorrect.

[August]

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.
The mask is a good idea if you've already been diagnosed as contagious. :yep:

When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease. :up:


Depends on the mask. If it's one of those cheap surgical masks you are right but Skybirds mad max version would probably work if he didn't keep going around to "shops" and just stayed in his basement.

[ET2SN]

I'm afraid this is incorrect.

Really? You're going to tell the rest of the class HOW LONG THE FILTER ELEMENTS LAST in an area of known contagion vs a clear area, right?

I'm guessing the time limit is close to half an hour, but I'm not an expert. :03:

[Rockstar]

I like this guy just a doctor giving his professional opinion, no hype, no drama, no politics. Just doctor stuff.



Let them argue. Yes, he says the jury is still out but I changed my life style years ago (exercise, better eats, general health and welfare) and that reduced my blood pressure instead of taking blood pressure meds. From 160 over 110 10 years ago. My average today is 124 over 86

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vZDVbqRhyM

[Traveller]

Really? You're going to tell the rest of the class HOW LONG THE FILTER ELEMENTS LAST in an area of known contagion vs a clear area, right?

I'm guessing the time limit is close to half an hour, but I'm not an expert. :03:Then go ahead and don't wear a mask. It's your life and it doesn't matter either way to me.

Class dismissed. :D

[ET2SN]

Just do me one favor and read this thread again after a year has passed.
You'll understand more. :up:

Skybird; Please tell me you know how to use that mask. :)
That includes knowing how to change out the filter after you've used it (each and every time) as well as how to properly clean it (vs how to improperly clean it). For example, by now you should know how to mix a Betadyne solution and what color that solution turns your skin as well as having several bags full of filter elements. You should also know why its a bad idea to use alcohol to clean the face seal and internal parts.

[Onkel Neal]

SF Bay Area goes into voluntary lockdown tomorrow. Home sweet home. There was already a marked reduction in traffic today anyway.
https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-lockdown-coronavirus-disease-bay-area-2020-3

Does that mean you are locked down? You're in SF?

Keep us posted!

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.
The mask is a good idea if you've already been diagnosed as contagious. :yep:

When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease. :up:

I know you've read that online, I totally disagree. If the mask seals and the user has appropriate eye protection, it is very effective. Why do you think the health professionals wear them?

[Skybird]

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.
The mask is a good idea if you've already been diagnosed as contagious. :yep:

When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease. :up:
Wrong.

What you talk of, are socalled surgeon mask. Abd yes, they are meant to protect patients from germ spread by the surgeon.

And even these would protect you - if EVERYBODY, the healthy, the knowing sick and the unknowwing sick would wear them. Because then every sick would wear one and would be hindered to spit virusses around of which he maybe does not even know that he has them, if he has not yet formed symptoms.



Mask of the kind I Use, actively protect you from particles, but you need a sufficient filter. In Europe, there are three filter classes, FFP 1, 2 And 3. You need FFP3 to filter out virusses and 99.99% of particles.



Even surgeon masks provide a bit of filtering protection, however, the hints for that are mounting. The governments say they are no use because they did not ready enough and now want to use them for staff, keeping people away from them.

[Skybird]

The shown mask costed 27 euros with one wrong filter, i bought ffp3 separately. Tbe tissue is nanofibre for multi use. In principle it is looking more heavy and solid than it is, its craftsman and homeworker quality, the frame. Because this kind os mssk is just a surgeon mssk with improved ffp3 tissue but with silicon rims for better and more durable sealing versus the skin.single use filter like the ones you see on tv all the time, last until moisture from aersol made them eet, then they are dangerous. It is after20 to 30 minutes. However, better materials allow longer and multiple uses. A vent that allows the aerosol to leave, keeps it dry for longer, also extending duration.

In principle you can use every craftsmen mask from the baumarkt as long as it has a ffp3 filter.


Right now staff in hospitals is told to use even most primitive mask for all the shift, or even several shifts - even here in some German hospitals. In china and skorea they had to wear them for days.

[ET2SN]

I know you've read that online, I totally disagree. If the mask seals and the user has appropriate eye protection, it is very effective. Why do you think the health professionals wear them?


Actually, I learned that by living in Japan for several years and visiting various ports in Asia. :up:
I was also qualified in all the old NBC hoo-hah and specialized in Damage Control thingies (wearing and caring for many different types of filtration, direct-air, and re-breather masks).

So, yeah. It was part of my job. :up:

Stop and think for just a minute. Any mask does diddly squat if you wear it when you don't need it. Those micron filters work in both directions and all you do is trap all the crap you breathed out, so you can breathe it back in the next time you put on the mask. :yep:

That isn't Covid-19 but it can be almost as nasty.

[Onkel Neal]

Ok, I acknowledge you have experience with respirators, I also have from working in chemical plants. Many years of training and use. I am not saying I am right, just I disagree that they are not effective if used properly. You are correct, the filters have a limited use life. Still, as I pointed out, you better believe the medic that assists you when you have coronavirus is wearing something to protect him/herself. Don't you agree?

[Skybird]

Even an ordinary textile provides you some filterin, and shielding against sputum. Its just that the filtering effect might be extremely low. But when you are desperate, you try what you can and is available.


Craving for perfection should not stop using what is available, ETS


Packs with three ffp3 filters costed around25 euros a year ago. I bought several ones. I did not expect to ever need them...


Wet filters widen the openings between fibres, so that bugs slip through, and caught bugs from before get released, increasing their saturation in the aerosol. Thats why wet filters must be replaced. They can start to enrich breathing with bugs!



The biggest concern currently is the corona virus. But even it does not live forever on surfaces and in tissues. Used filters can breed bacteria, however. Multiuse filters must be stored open and dry, therefore. Virusses can not multiply themselves like bacteria, they need to enter organic cells for that.


You do not want to wear an ffp3 for hours during sport. That it hinders free breathing and reduces oygene per breath, can be very easily felt.



Wear whatever you have when you enter crowds, rooms with many people, shops. Get it off once you are out of the contaminated situation. A mask like you can use several times, but do never let it become wet, keep it unsealed so that it can dry and chsnge the filter after some time. Do not use it forever.


Use some common sense

[ET2SN]

Ok, I acknowledge you have experience with respirators, I also have from working in chemical plants. Many years of training and use. I am not saying I am right, just I disagree that they are not effective if used properly. You are correct, the filters have a limited use life. Still, as I pointed out, you better believe the medic that assists you when you have coronavirus is wearing something to protect him/herself. Don't you agree?



No problem, I'm right but I'm wrong. :03:

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus. That's how they work. You'll either catch a mild form of it and feel like crap for a while before you recover, or you'll get sick enough to spend some time in a hospital, or you'll get the vaccine once it becomes available- but no matter what, you WILL catch this virus.

Unless you live on a small island with a small population and no imports or tourists. Just stay away from the bats. :o

[Skybird]

No problem, I'm right but I'm wrong. :03:

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus. That's how they work. You'll either catch a mild form of it and feel like crap for a while before you recover, or you'll get sick enough to spend some time in a hospital, or you'll get the vaccine once it becomes available- but no matter what, you WILL catch this virus.

Unless you live on a small island with a small population and no imports or tourists. Just stay away from the bats. :o


That is correct, absolutely. But you do not want to get it NOW. No cures. Hositals taken out and ICUs not available. 15 percent or more catching it require hospitalization. 5 % or so get critical. Average time in ICU and on ventilstors is18 days!!!



You cannot avoid getting it. But you want not to get it now. Thats why i want to delay my turn. Best it would be i do not get the bug, but a shot.



Thats the whole reason behind Flatten The Curve. To ease pressure on the system and keep it operational. Else the dying in big numbers begins. Due to this bug and due to other deseases and accidents that the overwhelmed system cannot cope witb any longer.



So do your share. Delay. Help flatten that damn curve. Dont become a spreader yourself. This is no harmless flu. Thid thing is fast, and kills.

[ET2SN]

I already take a medicine that goofs with my immune system- on purpose. :yeah:

If anyone gets to panic, I should get head-of-the-line privileges. :D

But I'm OK with it. I've already dealt with a couple of viruses since last Fall and I'm still here. Yes, this one is new and it will be nasty at first. Kinda. We think?

That's the big issue, the unknown part.
Hopefully, the planet learns something new. :salute:

[Traveller]

Just FYI, the mask doesn't do anything if you're healthy.When you see those old vids of people in Asia wearing masks, THEY are the sick ones. They are wearing a mask to keep from spreading a disease.

Actually, I learned that by living in Japan for several years and visiting various ports in Asia. :up:
WRONG. :nope:

According to the CDC, while N95 masks are ideal for medical workers, surgical masks do offer almost the same amount of protection from coronavirus infection in high-risk environments.The CDC guidance said the changes were prompted by the shortages. Surgical face masks will block the respiratory droplets produced by patients who cough or sneeze, which is the primary way the virus is spread.

During the height of flu season over the course of four years, researchers studied flu-infection rates among health care workers at seven U.S. medical centers. Some workers were randomly assigned to wear N95 respirators and others surgical masks. The two groups showed no significant difference in flu infection rates, according to the study, which was published in September in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/10/face-mask-shortage-prompts-cdc-loosen-coronavirus-guidance/%3foutputType=amp

[Catfish]

SF Bay Area goes into voluntary lockdown tomorrow. Home sweet home. There was already a marked reduction in traffic today anyway.
https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-lockdown-coronavirus-disease-bay-area-2020-3
I wonder when this happens here. Hope you are doing well, wishing you all the best.

[ET2SN]

You are so full of it. :nope:



Sez you. :up:

All I'm saying is that Asian populations tend to have much higher densities than western cultures (there are a lot more people living very close to each other). People who are sick are expected to wear a mask so they don't spread it to the rest of the town, or the subway, or the bus. Its considered polite to not infect your neighbors. :yeah: It also gives your neighbors a head's up that you aren't feeling well but you still need to get stuff done, so they can stay out of your way.

If you really want to wear a mask and freak people out, make sure you do it right. Otherwise, you'll still get the flu. Make sure the mask hurts slightly (or at least it should feel uncomfortable). This shows you the mask is making a good seal against your face. Make sure you wear it only for as long as the filter is designed to last. That will usually mean doing some power shopping, you want to move quickly to minimize the time you need to wear it. Oh, try not to sweat while you're moving quickly. Sweat is not good for the mask and will tend to make it fit loose, which defeats the purpose of why you're wearing it. Make sure you're wearing disposable gloves (for Pete's sake) and some form of goggles. Don't forget to cover your ears, btw, because we're talking basic Contamination 101. :up:

Is this starting to sound ridiculous yet? :yep:

If you really want to wear a mask, do yourself a big favor and get trained on how and WHEN to wear it by someone who's been certified to teach you. Otherwise, all you're going to do is possibly harm yourself or some innocent by-standers. :salute:

[Fifi]

Ok, here in France we have reached same level as Italy...today at 12H, everybody must stay at home...for 15 days minimum. Only replenishing for food is allowed. And some essential workers. Army is requisitioned to help health people.
:Kaleun_Salute:

[Traveller]

Fifi, it's good to hear from someone in France. Please stay safe and keep us updated on your situation! :salute:

[Fifi]

Fifi, it's good to hear from someone in France. Please stay safe and keep us updated on your situation! :salute:

:up:
For the moment, people are ... kind of mad.
Went for food this morning, and couldn’t believe my eyes. They are buying tons of food and stuff even knowing supermarkets will stay open! Like if they are making their last buying :doh:
Hopefully we are living in a pretty safe virus area. Not that much people infected here. But...

[Hitman]

You are starting to see now what happened here until yesterday, right during and after the lockdown. If the experience gained here applies, don't go to the supermarket when the crazyness breaks out as it is full of people and God knows how many infected. Today the supermarkets are nearly empty after everybody rushed to fill the fridge and now they have no more space for storing goods and won't come out in days until they start depleting them. And better even, supermarket employees are allowing people to enter only once another customer exits, which ensures there is always a low number inside. That makes you shop quicker and is better for everyone. BUT once you can start shopping normally, start building up a bigger reserve of goods, as the supply chain might eventually see interruptions sooner or later, even if temporary ones. Plan wisely, shop wisely, consume wisely.

If we can go by what happened in China after the lockdown, we will need like 3 months to have things under control, and some additional period of exercising lots of caution until being able to say we are already past it. China had the advantage over us of being a dictatorship with well disciplined population, but the disadvantage of the massive size of the cities and the crowded nature of the small homes and spaces. I would expect that smaller towns are free of this all way before big cities in EU and the US, so maybe at some point only those big cities remain locked for extra time.

[Traveller]

Fifi, crazy stuff. Seems like many people are scared, especially those who didn't prepare in advance.

German foreign minister tells citizens to stay home after 1,174 new cases reported on Monday.German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas urged German citizens to stay home today, after a dramatic leap in the country's coronavirus cases.

This comes after the country reported 1,174 new infections within 24 hours between Sunday and Monday -- its largest single-day rise in cases.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-17-20-intl-hnk/index.html

[Jimbuna]

The UK government will unveil more financial plans to help the economy during the coronavirus outbreak, after the prime minister announced unprecedented peacetime measures.

Boris Johnson has urged everyone to avoid unnecessary social contacts, to work from home where possible, and to stay away from pubs and restaurants.

People in at-risk groups will be asked within days to stay home for 12 weeks.

Firms warned the virus restrictions could put them out of business.

The number of people who have died with the virus in the UK has reached 55.

More than 1,500 people have tested positive for the virus in the UK - but the actual number of cases is estimated to be between 35,000 and 50,000.

The UK's shift in strategy comes as Europe plans to ban all non-essential travel throughout the Schengen free-travel zone, as more countries close their borders.

In Boris Johnson's first daily update on Monday he acknowledged the economy was facing "a severe blow" because of the virus.

The key new measures he announced included:

Everyone should avoid gatherings with friends and family, as well as large gatherings and crowded places, such as pubs, clubs and theatres.

People should avoid non-essential travel and work from home if they can.

All "unnecessary" visits to friends and relatives in care homes should cease.

People should only use the NHS "where we really need to" - and can reduce the burden on workers by getting advice on the NHS website where possible.

By next weekend, those with the most serious health conditions must be "largely shielded from social contact for around 12 weeks"

If one person in any household has a persistent cough or fever, everyone living there must stay at home for 14 days.

Those people should, if possible, avoid leaving the house "even to buy food or essentials" - but they may leave the house "for exercise and, in that case, at a safe distance from others"

Schools will not be closed for the moment.

Under the guidance, people who should be "particularly stringent" in minimising their social contact are:

People over the age of 70

Other adults who would normally be advised to have the flu vaccine (such as those with chronic diseases)

Pregnant women.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51920444

[ikalugin]

The disruptions in America, the social and political ones, might be much more severe. Maybe they see Trump and his threat to chinese economic plans as the bigger problem than ther current losses.



Do I think this scenario is likely? I give 5-15% probability, somewhere in that range. Their readiness to abuse and mass-destroy their own population if it serves the gfat cat'S interests, they have demonstrated often enough. After all, their party dictatorship makes them a feudal society, still.


I think the probability is way below that. But we are all entitled to being wrong.

[ikalugin]

Moscow may be introducing hard line measures from friday.


https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rbc.ru%2Frbcfreenews%2F5e708a8 a9a7947f3d057ed3d%3Futm_source%3Dyxnews%26utm_medi um%3Ddesktop%26utm_referrer%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252F yandex.ru%252Fnews

[Onkel Neal]

Moscow may be introducing hard line measures from friday.



What are thing like there? What are people around you saying about this?

[Skybird]

In an unprecedented move of daring courage, initiative and exemplary responsibility, German Außenkasperle Jochen Maas today issued a governmental travel warning.



Could you believe that!

[Skybird]

I already take a medicine that goofs with my immune system- on purpose. :yeah:

If anyone gets to panic, I should get head-of-the-line privileges. :D

But I'm OK with it. I've already dealt with a couple of viruses since last Fall and I'm still here. Yes, this one is new and it will be nasty at first. Kinda. We think?

That's the big issue, the unknown part.
Hopefully, the planet learns something new. :salute:


Seasonal flu kills scores. Over the whole year.
This one kills scores, but less thna the flu, but, and that is the bad thing: it kills these in a very short of time. It overloads the health system which cannot deal with it anymore, and cnanot deal with anythign else anymore. And that is when the real dying begins. When peopl reahc out forhelp that would be a normnality to give in good times - and find they get no help and must die of minor things that some weeks ago would hav ebeen easily dealt with, and cured.


One cannot compare this iwth the ordinary flu. The flu does not block the health system, its risks are spread, and static. The risks in corona is amasse din this point of time, and its exploding and somewhat uncalculatable. One compares apples with oranges.


Keep in this mind this:

- 4 in 20 people ave a heavy going fo the desease enforcing hospitalization.

- 1-2 in 20 hang on the life support mahcinery for 2 and a half weeks.
- Already now, the system is many, many places is at its limit. And they do not even already begin with themain film.
- Growht is exponetial.
- are infectous 12-18 hours after exposiiton, and the start to show symptoms not before after 2-12 days, mostly after 5-7 days. That means on Sunday you catch it, and then yo spend Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Friday infecteing peope around you before un saturday you start to feel a mild headache or a dry cough yourself and think "oooopsies, I maybe got it".



The faality rate of this desease so far is frightening. It snot as high as some others bad bigs out there, but taken for itself it is very bad.


We need to keep the numbers of infected people down, we need to slow the ifneciton rate, becasue every fifth of the ifnected must go to hospital and into an ICU, and that is one ICU ujavaalble for the next two and a haklf weeks for everybody and anythign else.


Its antisocial and displays cokplete disragrd for other people if you do nto protect others for yourself, no matter whether yu know you are sick or think you are healthy. You do ot necessarily know that you are sick.


THAT is the reason why everbyody wears those masks in Asia, ETS2. Even a iece of paper would help protecting you, if EVERYBODY wears one, becasue everybody woud, mean: also those not nowing that hey are already spreaders themselves.


Your concern regarding mask hygiene may be what they are, I fo not claim they are princippally wrong, they rent, but they are for a perfect world, and I have one simple argument that trumps them all. Here it is:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uSsaLT9Bsxc/TPAJySQtwWI/AAAAAAAAAHE/XoJTVVKHVnM/s400/42903_R_by_Uwe-Steinbrich_pixelio.de.jpg


https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/6014140_031420-wls-ohare-lines-img.jpg?w=1600


If you see no need wanting to wear a mask in situations like this for your own self protection, then I cannot help you.


The first pictuire is one year old, Germany, the second is two days old, Chicaco O Hare.

[Skybird]

The WHO now echoes the French warning to not use Ibuprofen in case of Corona virus fever.

[Skybird]

Lockdown is coming. It must come.


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dw.com%2Fde%2Fkommentar-der-corona-lockdown-kommt-es-geht-nur-so%2Fa-52802013


And I will comply with it withoht resisting. Becasue I understand the need for it.


In fact it should already be here, it comes way too late, oike so many things they decide. Always late, late, late, late, late. When it comes, it should stay for 4-6 weeks at least. I doubt it will be that long.



Nobody has the courage and the format to stand up and decide it and put his career on the line of fire. They still play tactical games.

[Skybird]

The German boss of the German RKI - the German CDC - drops a bomb buy saying that the actual measures could last for

two years. The risk for German citizens now is officially raised to "High".


Politicians nowm ust follow, I hope. They just must. Curfew must come this week. They have run out of excuses.

[ikalugin]

What are thing like there? What are people around you saying about this?


The streets are fairly empty in the center, people are buying non perishiable foods in the big stores but because I live in city center it pretty much died out as people move to their suburban or country side residences. The general vibe from sunday discussions seems to be that the state is going to react heavily to the crisis. Back then there was some discussion about relative merits of closing down universities (students with nothing to do are not going to maintain self isolation and may get to no good) but now it is clear that those would be locked down till atleast 21st of April.


The nature of the hard line measures is not yet clear and they are said to follow only if there is an increase in infections over the next few days (till friday) but public assemblies above 50 people, public events, schools and universities are closed down already. So I guess we already did the moderate measures and the next logical move is to restrict movement in the city period.


There are also dedicated hospitals deployed to recieve corona specific patients and so on.

[Jimbuna]

The first human trial of a vaccine to protect against pandemic coronavirus has started in the US.

Four patients received the jab at the Kaiser Permanente research facility in Seattle, Washington, reports the Associated Press news agency.

The vaccine cannot cause Covid-19 but contains a harmless genetic code copied from the virus that causes the disease.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51906604

[Jimbuna]

British nationals should avoid all non-essential foreign travel to tackle the spread of coronavirus, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has advised.

The travel restrictions will be in place for 30 days initially but could be extended, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab told the House of Commons.

The advice reflects the pace at which other countries are bringing in border controls in response to the pandemic.

Meanwhile the Euro 2020 football tournament has been postponed until 2021
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51924405

[Hitman]

The German boss of the German RKI - the German CDC - drops a bomb buy saying that the actual measures could last for

two years. The risk for German citizens now is officially raised to "High".


Politicians nowm ust follow, I hope. They just must. Curfew must come this week. They have run out of excuses.

Humm actually an effective and tested vaccine is expected in about one year, which counting people who might be immunized by then probably means we should never reach that two year mark.

BUT we have been warned: This is the second time in 10 years that such a disease spreads from China due to the lack of hygienic controls and standards of those appalling wet markets and the massive conglomeration of population in small spaces. Once this all is over, the whole international community must act strongly against China in this regard, it's amazing that the countries that suffered SARS in 2002 didn't already push it in these last years. But now they will have the full support of the international community, either China guarantees health or we should go for a full commercial and persons ban or whatever. Globalization has shown its ugly face clearly, it is on us to put the limit now before the next one is even worse.

[Mr Quatro]

British nationals should avoid all non-essential foreign travel to tackle the spread of coronavirus, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has advised.

The travel restrictions will be in place for 30 days initially but could be extended, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab told the House of Commons.

The advice reflects the pace at which other countries are bringing in border controls in response to the pandemic.

Meanwhile the Euro 2020 football tournament has been postponed until 2021
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51924405

Let us know when they close your bars and pubs and clubs like they have here in the USA at least in NY and Ohio and LA.

As I remember you have said you have a storage locker full of beer just in case of lock down. :yep:

[Mr Quatro]

Is this funny or what? Reminds me of the virus in Wuhan when the citizens were rewarded $145 for telling on their neighbors for having signs of the virus.


In California: Millions locked down; 911 gets calls about neighbors coughing

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-california-millions-locked-down-911-gets-calls-about-neighbors-coughing/ar-BB11hkwg?li=BBnb7Kz

Nearly seven million residents in seven counties must shelter in place to help stop the spread of coronavirus. Elsewhere in the Golden State, people are calling 911 to report coughers.

[Rockstar]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/16/upshot/coronavirus-best-worst-death-toll-scenario.html



Play god and use the slider to change the outcome or be content with what University of Nebraska public health researcher, Dr. James Lawler, recently presented to hospital executives: 480,000 American deaths over the course of the illness known as Covid-19.


How Coronavirus Deaths Could Compare With Other Major Killers
Cause of death U.S. Deaths

1. Heart disease 655,381
2. Cancer 599,274
3. Coronavirus (estimate) 480,000
4. Alzheimer’s, dementia and brain degeneration 267,311
5. Emphysema and COPD 154,603
6. Stroke 147,810
7.Diabetes 84,946
8. Drug overdoses 67,367
9. Pneumonia/flu 59,690

[Skybird]

My problem with those estimates, is this:


It seems to not take into account those who die with a health condition that before would have been survived - when these patients do not get treatment because the hospitals capacities and staff have been overwhelmed with Corona patients.


And that is where the high kill ratios are hidden. Covid19 kills itself - and also let's other factors do the killing by preventing hospitals to deal with them.


So FLATTEN THAT DAMN CURVE

[Rockstar]

My problem with those estimates, is this:


It seems to not take into account those who die with a health condition that before would have been survived - when these patients do not get treatment because the hospitals capacities and staff have been overwhelmed with Corona patients.


And that is where the high kill ratios are hidden. Covid19 kills itself - and also let's other factors do the killing by preventing hospitals to deal with them.




I moved it up to 60% infection rate and but stayed with Tony Fauci's guesstimate of 1 % case fatality rate. Estimate was close to two million deaths.

[Skybird]

I moved it up to 60% infection rate and but stayed with Tony Fauci's guesstimate of 1 % case fatality rate. Estimate was close to two million deaths.
That does not address my point. Did I explain it in a misunderstandable way? Or do I miss something? Moving that slider only changes the Corona death rate. The closer to the limit the system is stressed, or is beyond it, the more kill numbers in all other categories must rise, too. Because not just Corona but all other patients as well do not get the treatment they need anymore. You go to hospital with a hurting appendix, no bed and surgery is free, you die from your appendix. Because of corona, but it killed you indirectly.


That table and slider look like a relaxation pill to me.

[mapuc]

No problem, I'm right but I'm wrong. :03:

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus.

Unless you live on a small island with a small population and no imports or tourists. Just stay away from the bats. :o


Which I do I live on a little island without any bridges, only ferries and with a little population, around 6000.

And as mentioned before I'm not a social person, far, far from it. If there are more than 2 person in my surrounding, it is 1+ to many.

Home it's only me and my little cat.

Markus

[Rockstar]

I'm just listening to our man Tony Fauci here in the U.S. If we play our cards right which I do believe we are (finally), he estimated the case fatality rate closer to 1% here in the United States.



I have absolutely no idea nor do I even dare guess what it could be in the E.U. Having twice the population we do you all are packed in over there like sardines. But if it makes you feel better you all will probably have closer to 100% infection and 30% case fatality rate.

[mapuc]

The biggest problem isn't those who do as told, but the rest around 10 % who either doesn't care or do not have followed what the news program have told them.

It was on the Danish news on news at 12. Where they said X-thousand of Italians had been caught despite they was not allowed to go outside.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Which I do I live on a little island without any bridges, only ferries and with a little population, around 6000.

And as mentioned before I'm not a social person, far, far from it. If there are more than 2 person in my surrounding, it is 1+ to many.

Home it's only me and my little cat.

Markus

I didn't know that ... years of interaction and I did not know that

What else do we not know about each other ... you should put a picture up of where you live ... Like Reece did he has a really nice place in the country over in Australia, but no one would've known it without his posting the picture.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=227664

[Skybird]

I'm just listening to our man Tony Fauci here in the U.S. If we play our cards right which I do believe we are (finally), he estimated the case fatality rate closer to 1% here in the United States.



I have absolutely no idea nor do I even dare guess what it could be in the E.U. Having twice the population we do you all are packed in over there like sardines. But if it makes you feel better you all will probably have closer to 100% infection and 30% case fatality rate.
You do not get my point. I am not about the fatlity rate of Corona alone.



You have a car accident. You need surgery, yiou bleed. They brign you to hospital,. it says no, thexy ask int he seocnd one, they say no, a third one: iots a no, they brign you nto the fourth one, two hours later, your blood loss is critical. They roll you inot a floor, and let you lie there since that is all they can do. Suzrgeons are out, nurses are short i n supply, ther eis no ventilator, the ER rooms are turned into isolation r ooms for corona patients. You die.


Does this count as a rais ei the Corona fatility rate? No. But nevcertheless it is Corona that has killed you, indirectly. Because it was Corona that has knocked out your health system.


And it will knock it out, you better believe that. It will knocks out even our system , and we have a three times as high a density of beds per 1000 people than you have in the US, and an even higher share of these are ICUs than it is the case in the US. But even the German system will finally get overwhelmed, because we started too late. You started even later, and with even more disadvantageous preparation levels. They started to realise what is coming at us, and although by numbers they claim we are set up well, today they suddenly went into panic mode and said they want to double the number of ICUs in Germany until the end of the year (which means they also forsee that this crisis will last deep into the next year at least, if not longer). Well, better late than never. The German fatality rate currently is low, so some thigns seem to be donen right, too. But this can change any time. I expect everything being possibkle, we do not know this virus yet.


You need to multiply the fatilities from corona with an unknown factor to represent the indirect kills form corona as well.

[Jimbuna]

The number of people in the UK who have tested positive for coronavirus has hit nearly 2,000 - the biggest single day jump since the outbreak began.

The Department of Health and Social care said 1,950 had been diagnosed with the virus since the outbreak began, an increase of 407 since yesterday .

Shortly before the new total was announced, the Government’s chief scientific adviser said around 55,000 people in the UK were estimated to have Covid-19.

[u crank]

Here's something to ponder.. We're ALL going to get this virus. That's how they work. You'll either catch a mild form of it and feel like crap for a while before you recover, or you'll get sick enough to spend some time in a hospital, or you'll get the vaccine once it becomes available- but no matter what, you WILL catch this virus.



So FLATTEN THAT DAMN CURVE

I couldn't agree more. We are spending money, time and resources in the wrong area. This virus is going to go everywhere regardless of quarantines. All effort should be spent protecting and caring for those we know for certain are going to be fatalities. The foolishness of the present course can be summed up in this scenario.

A reasonably healthy guy starts feeling flu like symptoms and goes to a clinic/hospital and asks to be tested for the COVID-19 virus. The test is done and it shows that the guy does not have the virus. He is told he probably has the flu or a bad cold. On the way home he goes to the local supermarket to buy, oh let's say toilet paper. While there he meets and talks to a friend who is also fairly healthy and just happens to have the virus. The tested guy is infected. The tested guy goes on his merry way confident that he is alright and infects dozens of other people.

Yea ...flatten the damn curve.

[Skybird]

The biggest problem isn't those who do as told, but the rest around 10 % who either doesn't care or do not have followed what the news program have told them.

It was on the Danish news on news at 12. Where they said X-thousand of Italians had been caught despite they was not allowed to go outside.

Markus
Amen to that. I still see so many antisocial apes behaving like retards on a biological wepaon amok run. Thats why I want that dman curfew coming, better last week than tomorrow. Instead, the govenrment sitll plays pedagocial educasiton games. In Berlin, public fairgrounds are left open, but parents (there are no mothers and fathers anymore, just parents), should explain their kids and talk with them about how important it is that they keep two meters distance tpo the other kids. Well. Tell that a 6 year old. :/\\!! Idiots. The senate, not the kids I mean. Kids are just kids. Kids do what kids are. forgetting the lecture and keep on plying, not caring for anythging. Or they care, that the playing is ruined.



Berlin. Why do I even get hot over it. Berlin is berlin, that explains it all. No other senate or federal govenrment amongst the sixteen states is more incompetent than this one, and it is like this sinc the 80s at least, probably also already earlier.

[mapuc]

I didn't know that ... years of interaction and I did not know that

What else do we not know about each other ... you should put a picture up of where you live ... Like Reece did he has a really nice place in the country over in Australia, but no one would've known it without his posting the picture.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=227664

I live on an island called Aeroe island and almost in the middle of the island in a little town with a population around 360 (2018)

I have a house with a big garden...then there is my lawn, less than half the size as a football field.

Markus

[Skybird]

.flatten the damn curve.


Lest repeat that for the slow ones, and translates again what it means. Flatten the curve, that means: fight a battle to keep the number of corona patients in clincs below a treshhold level that marks when clinics are ov erwhlemned and have no more free capacities for other deseases which are not corona. Hospitals must k,eep some cpapackities open to reatc to accidents, an so many others poatients. If corona consumes all these reserves, than the system must leave everbyod else and more corona poateints without help. And so people must die that otherwise could be saved.


Help flatten the curve. EVERYBODY. How you do that? Stay at home. Bcome dissocial. Do not elak around. Do not meet people. Isolate even if you have no symptoms and think you are healthy (mind you, incubation can be anythign ebtween 2 and 12 or even 14 days).



Thats why a total lock down is so important. And it must be vigorously enforced.

[Skybird]

I live on an island called Aeroe island and almost in the middle of the island in a little town with a population around 360 (2018)

I have a house with a big garden...then there is my lawn, less than half the size as a football field.

Markus


Stay at home nevertehless. Tiny village, I understand. Still, just one zombie is enough to ruin it all for you all. You all out there should stay at home, like everbyody else. If you think you are out of reach of it due to your location, you already went into the trap. Or sweating hand of infected strokes fur of pet well, same story, more or less, pet goes home, owner strokes pet... you know how the story could end.



Heck, even people who went through it, survived and are immune - still can spread it!!!!! Via smear infections, even your beloved pets can spread it. Dogs licks sweating hand of infested, goes to his master, licks his hand, hands goes to face around the mouth or eye or nose, and Booom!.

[Catfish]

I live on an island called Aeroe island and almost in the middle of the island in a little town with a population around 360 (2018)
I have a house with a big garden...then there is my lawn, less than half the size as a football field.Markus
This is a very nice island, we have stopped there several times at Aeroskoebing harbour or Marstal overnight when sailing. I remember the houses have very nicely carved and colourful doors :up:

[Skybird]

Report from the front, German section (not a video, just a screenie):


https://i.postimg.cc/vT6nSMBp/uni.png (https://postimages.org/)


WE WILL STAY HERE FOR YOU!!!


PLEASE YOU STAY AT HOME FOR US!!!




Your place in this fight is your couch. Stay the **** at home. Is this really too much asked for?

[Hitman]

Ahmen to that.

In Spain an idiot got caught today walking with a puppet dog to be able to get out of home :wah:

I was at the supermarket today, the employees there all smiles and helpful, keeping people apart and letting only one into the shop once another payed and was out. They will be doing their 8 hour shifts while so many people go by to get their supplies, only God knows how many with the virus. Those employees are also heroes to my eyes, we should be grateful to them as we are to the health care people. THANKS.

[mapuc]

@ Catfish.

I know or have been told that Aeroskoebing is some UN-list And I can't find it.

@ Skybird.

I have shopped the most important thing for the next couple of weeks. There will still be a few things I need to buy and this will be bought in my little grocery store located about 50 meters from where I live.

Habits.

Yes people are nice to keep distance to each other......until habits takes over.

After my visit to the local grill and do some extra shopping(had forgot something from last time I was shopping some days ago) I stood and waited for the bus.
Bus arrived and people stayed in the seats...until the first got up..well about 30 sec. later 3-4 people stood very very close to each other waiting for the door to open.
Habits is hard to come by.

Markus

[Skybird]

Mapuc,


the essnetial need smust be served, niobody denies that. But one can waste time wehile doing it, or follow the milizary tatcic of fat in - fast out. No coffee sipping at the baker. Nio visit in the pub.



And nothing would get me into a bus or train currently. I use bicycles even in heavy rain, and routes avoiding the inner city and town, but lead througg the green and free areas aroundf the city. I avoid humans more than usual. Not too difficult for me, because that is my habit. :D

[mapuc]

Not since WWII have a Danish King or Queen held a extra speech to the Danish citizens. Their annual speech is on New Years eve.
So today speech was out of the extraordinary.

For once i wish I had an education or was an expert on vira or bacteria.

Then I could with power in my words and writing say:

It's not enough to keep distance and wash your hands...this virus is also spreading indirectly

´cause more and more I read about this virus on science pages, tell me this.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1161&pictureid=10891

[Skybird]

Report from a nurse, starting 01:35. Heart-breaking.



Watch it. Get the message. Do it. Stay locked.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr0Cqlf5xK4

[Rockstar]

Purpose of this talk is mostly for healthcare professionals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoisrCTu0SY

[u crank]

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1161&pictureid=10891

I was put on earth for this purpose. :D

[mapuc]

I will not stay inside all day long during my non-elected vacation-If my work place is closing until end of March.

I will if weather approve it-work in my garden-preparing for spring.

I will not meet other people. Only I'm going to see is those in cars who drive by and those who enter or leave our grocery store.(50 meters away)

Markus

[STEED]

Well I am sick of these bastards panic buying and I have reached the end of the line with these bastards, today I was up my town centre popped into a supermarket and it was stripped of almost all the food! You selfish bastards the lot of you..............

Oh and you the supermarkets let it happen just to make fast profit you greedy pigs and now you can not keep up with demand your staff are getting verbal abuse. Not from me as my anger is at you pigs in the board rooms rubbing your grubby little mitts.

What I am thinking can not be posted unless I get permission because I really had it up to here with these panic buying bastards the lot of you.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Catfish]

^ it is them who cause a panic, and it is not worth a sh... . Stores plan their stock to sell a few weeks ahead, and it certainly takes time to adapt. There is no shortage of goods, right now it is those panicking hoarders who cause all the fuss :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

Well I am sick of these bastards panic buying and I have reached the end of the line with these bastards, today I was up my town centre popped into a supermarket and it was stripped of almost all the food! You selfish bastards the lot of you..............

Oh and you the supermarkets let it happen just to make fast profit you greedy pigs and now you can not keep up with demand your staff are getting verbal abuse. Not from me as my anger is at you pigs in the board rooms rubbing your grubby little mitts.

What I am thinking can not be posted unless I get permission because I really had it up to here with these panic buying bastards the lot of you.:mad::mad::mad::mad:


You must be down to your last roll. What do you mean, a fast profit? Did you ask when their shipments come in? Have you tried more than one shop?

[mapuc]

Did some shopping today which I mentioned before.

And I noticed the wall, where they have all the toilet and kitchen paper, was filled up..almost up to the ceiling.

Just in case I bought a package toilet paper(and ONLY one).

Markus

[STEED]

You must be down to your last roll. What do you mean, a fast profit? Did you ask when their shipments come in? Have you tried more than one shop?

Clearly supermarkets had time to react to the situation back in late Jan into Feb and could have bought in measures to prevent or slow this madness down. And yes I have visited other supermarkets and small shops and the story is the same in all of them, shelf's stripped clean.

No toilet paper no towel paper no soap no liquid soap no tin food, oh I noticed biscuits are now almost sold out as well. Frozen food is doing a little better but I suspect that will be targeted soon. Oh bread is all sold out but that is one product I gave up eating months ago to improve my digestive health and yes feel better for that move. Beer is or so being hit and fresh fruit and veg.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-whats-your-supermarket-doing-to-fight-panic-buying-and-shortages-11959191

[Skybird]

We are getting a new problem iover here: the farmers need tens of thousands of seasonal workers. In Germany, they practically all come from abroad.

Well, maybe not this year. And then we can get shortages for sure, on certain seasonal field fruits.

What they also do not say is that while many things of daily consummation are being produced in germany so that they say we have enough and produce at max, they hide those product groups where we need imported ressources to produce by.

Lets hide it, we do not know how supply situation really is. A government will never step before the people and say "Eh, btw next week we will be running out of this and that, so you better get your share until weekend before its out." When the warehouses are full the government will say "We have enough for everybody", and when the warehouses are empty the govenrment will say "We have enough for evervbody." Which makes the governments statments on things like this completely unpredictable and thus: worthless. We will never know whether they say the truth or not.

I noticed yesterday that the shelves are emptying, which probbaly still is due to logistics, not to shortages. But the symptom spreads, where as in the week before it was just an occasional curiosity to note: oo paper and pasta was out from beginning on, but now it includes milk products, eggs, cans, wheat, even fresh vegetable. They refill it, but the gaps become more frequent and they stay for longer time.

I stick to my years-long-proven method: I take away from the front of my shelf of reserves, and reload what has been taken immediately and fill it in at the back of the shelve. Durigng the unfolding of the story in past ten days or so, I just filled and corrected some irregularities, and so durign the hoartding phase of the crowds bought maybe 10-20% more during some shopping tours than I usually do.

Thats the thing about preparation. You prepare before TSHTF. You reload immediately after the storm is over. You stay loaded all the time between two storms. You never consume your reserves, saying: there will be no next storm. Money is no real excuse, because I started that already 17 years ago, when I was low on money. I added slowly to my heap of reserves. Later, getting into a more comfprtable posotion, I added more. Thats how it is done: notorious small contributions in the times between the storms, keeping and maintainign your reserves, never consuming them, but replenishing them.

[Eichhörnchen]

@ STEED

Beer and fags still okay though, huh?

I tell you what, though... I'm going to make sure I keep at least three posts away from Reece for the next seven days

[STEED]

Did some shopping today which I mentioned before.

And I noticed the wall, where they have all the toilet and kitchen paper, was filled up..almost up to the ceiling.

Just in case I bought a package toilet paper(and ONLY one).

Markus

Send me a couple of packs. :D

[Rockstar]

I have stocked Wysi wipes, just in case. ;)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP9U7cuzpuY

[Catfish]

Send me a couple of packs. :D
There are still diapers.. :O:

[STEED]

There are still diapers.. :O:

True but i am not a swine who would deprive a very young child of there needs. Oh i have never seen adult diapers on sale. :O: :yep: :O:

[mapuc]

For heaven sake, have mercy on his(STEED) miserable soul and provide him with a link to a homepage where adult can buy diapers

Markus

[ikalugin]

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vedomosti.ru%2Fsociety%2Fartic les%2F2020%2F03%2F17%2F825437-moskva-mozhet-zakritsya-na-karantin

It would seem that Moscow may be locked down, with public transport and non groceries/farmacies closed down, roads to and from the city shut down, police and national guard patrolling the streets and enforcing curfew.

[STEED]

For heaven sake, have mercy on his(STEED) miserable soul and provide him with a link to a homepage where adult can buy diapers

Markus

I will stick with the Daily Mail and pictures of Bojo. :)

[mapuc]

I have really hard time to fully embrace the aftermath of this crisis.

How it will effect us on every level in our society.

Markus

[STEED]

I have really hard time to fully embrace the aftermath of this crisis.

How it will effect us on every level in our society.

Markus

Will we learn from it no not a jot and get ready for China to unleash yet another virus in any where from now to 10 years.

[ikalugin]

While just over 100 sick people are being reported it would seem that we are taking this epidemic very seriously. I wonder how the lock down would work, Moscow is a big city and some groups (ie illegal migrants) may have problems finding food etc without work.

[Skybird]

In small babysteps they are creeping towards it. The ministre president of the German state Northrhine-Westphalia, the biggest of the 16 states with the Ruhrgebiet located in it and the biggest population, said that he stands ready to bring out curfew and total lockdown immediately when the federal government indicates it wants to move at that direction. We have the highest case number of all 16 states as well. He described the situation as being dramatic and said it is about nothing less than "life or death"

I think it is coming for certain, and maybe even already during this week, its absolutely possible and I would agree with it, absolutely. In Brussles, some are said to be almost furious about the crazy Germans and their laziness, the rest at least frowns their eyebrows. IMO it comes days and days too late anyway. Could last for anything from 2 weeks until after Easter, most likely. But certain is nothing in these times. Using my new action cam for bike tours will have to wait. If I get any opportunity at all this year, who knows. Luxury problems of spoiled brat. :D

Today they locked down all shops in my hometown. Some did not even care to open for this last day. Some will never open again if it last for longer than 2-4 weeks. Easter goods all were on sale, I read. I was not out anymore. My boat alrready is submerged, doing 1/3 on both screws at periscope depth, having cleared the harbor yesterday already. And I felt I already was late with that, maybe I already have unwanted passengers. in 12 days or so I will know for sure.

Its easy for me, since not much in my regular life chnages, I have always been a lone wolf and live dlike one, but for my parents it is tough, althoguh they try to hide it. Google Duo helps them a lot, we communicate daily with it, especially my Mum is happy when she also cna see me. Others may use Skype or whatever, but people: talk to your elderly in your family, stay in frequent, daily contact, use video chat if possible, it works wonders. It helps them to keep up their moral, not falling into despair and giving in to fear - fear not so much about themselves, since they are old, but about you, their offsprings.

[Reece]

@ STEED

... I'm going to make sure I keep at least three posts away from Reece for the next seven days

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/lOLza4ZuJ1kKASYNzmHeZGxAN2cmQTDZS7shcDaihUQvcFuhZ7 y5t93Z2QdrJb5MiLkxaqiaGN7nyk5fzcRkyv7dAideF4NweXF_ 2WkU4ydN9GoLPP3KmWrWxBoC74AHnGQry7N3v1snmpGqfrzNbG F2H_az_zGneiA

[Skybird]

Too late. Infected on first sight.

[mapuc]

^ Have you been infected Skybird ?

If so, then I'm truly sad to hear this.

To another story

Some friend had posted a bulletin where my friend recommend us to stay home as long as possible in other words follow what the Danish politicians and the Danish authorities have told us.

Then one of my friends friend wrote:

"No (ugly word) politicians shall tell me what I shall do or not do, I do as I please."

Markus

[STEED]

This is what i have here....

Coronavirus panic buying: Empty shelves at Sainsbury's

https://www.borehamwoodtimes.co.uk/news/18312846.coronavirus-panic-buying-empty-shelves-sainsburys/

Selfish bastards, sod you i am all right, hope you bloody choke.

[Traveller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmhsNdW24BM


Around 8:15 in the video, Belgian doctors are seeing more and more younger patients in their 30s-50s (with no underlying health problems) in critical condition with severe lung damage. Doctors in other countries have also stated the same.

[Mr Quatro]

Coronavirus 'emergency'? Oregon police ask people to stop calling 911 because they ran out of toilet paper

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-police-public-stop-calling-911-toilet-paper

A police department in Oregon is urging people that if they’ve run out of toilet paper, it’s not worth calling 911.

The Newport Police Department posted the surprising message on its Facebook page as shoppers across the country have flocked to supermarkets to stock up on supplies amid the coronavirus pandemic that has put much of the world on edge.

Advice good enough for Steed :up:

“[T]here are always alternatives to toilet paper. Grocery receipts, newspaper, cloth rags, lace, cotton balls, and that empty toilet paper roll sitting on the holder right now,” the message read. “Plus, there are a variety of leaves you can safely use. Mother Earth News magazine will tell you how to make your own wipes using fifteen different leaves. When all else fails, you have magazine pages. Start saving those catalogs you get in the mail that you usually toss into the recycle bin. be resourceful. Be patient. There is a TP shortage. This too shall pass. Just don’t call 9-1-1. We cannot bring you toilet paper.”

[Skybird]

^ Have you been infected Skybird ?

If so, then I'm truly sad to hear this.

To another story

Some friend had posted a bulletin where my friend recommend us to stay home as long as possible in other words follow what the Danish politicians and the Danish authorities have told us.

Then one of my friends friend wrote:

"No (ugly word) politicians shall tell me what I shall do or not do, I do as I please."

Markus


;) Noooo. I was pulling Reece' leg. Shopuld have given his quote. But on my screen it appeared all on one forum page, not on two separate ones.

[Traveller]

;) Noooo. I was pulling Reece' leg. Shopuld have given his quote. But on my screen it appeared all on one forum page, not on two separate ones.You would have been the first infected here. Sorry, no roll of toilet paper prize for you. :D

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmhsNdW24BM


Around 8:15 in the video, Belgian doctors are seeing more and more younger patients in their 30s-50s (with no underlying health problems) in critical condition with severe lung damage. Doctors in other countries have also stated the same.
Encouraging as always... :doh: And enraging. I knew there would be second waves, but this video provides me with a deeper insight into it.

[Mr Quatro]

In hindsight this covid-19 is like a wave from China to Japan to South Korea to Iran to Italy to the USA for some of the worse cases like in Seattle should give us a clue of how it operates.

Just a small dumb observation that there is nothing between China and Seattle except the Pacific Ocean :hmmm:

I told you it was dumb :yep: Probably just some passenger that flew in from China, uh?

What did the other countries do right closer to China not to be that affected?

and one more thought what if you get tested testing negative and then get the virus? How many times will this be repeated?

and wait one more thought what in the hell will $1,000 for everyone do if they need to pay the rent, the utilities, the auto payments, credit cards, food, cell phone, internet, movies etc on and on.

wait one last thought: Solution meals on wheels by the National Guard for people that stay at home this isn't going to be over by April no siree not even May :o

[Traveller]

Encouraging as always... :doh: And enraging. I knew there would be second waves, but this video provides me with a deeper insight into it.Yes, a second wave will come once lockdowns are eased. It's unavoidable, because countries cannot remain in lockdown indefinitely while waiting for a vaccine.


What did the other countries do right closer to China not to be that affected?

and one more thought what if you get tested testing negative and then get the virus? How many times will this be repeated?China, Singapore, Hong Kong, and South Korea all went into immediate and draconian lockdowns, plus started doing massive testing almost immediately, did very extreme contact tracing, quickly identified clusters, and squashed them. Also, all of their citizens were forced to wear surgical masks. This made a huge difference in reducing the spread of the virus.

Even though they saw what was happening in Asia and had ample time to prepare, the US and Europe waited too long in order to keep their economies humming along, but are now far past the point of containment and contact tracing because it has already spread everywhere. Their healthcare systems are about to get crushed with a huge increase of infected patients. Spare hospital beds, ICU rooms, ventilators, and PPE were already in short supply even before this pandemic began. It's going to get ugly very quickly. Nothing like any of us have ever seen.

And the bigger question is why there are many reports of fully recovered patients with no more symptoms becoming reinfected again (with symptoms) within 3-4 weeks after testing negative? Relapse? A new strain? No immunity? This is very worrying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr0Cqlf5xK4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJqSdmNNwW4

[Rockstar]

...

Then one of my friends friend wrote:

"No (ugly word) politicians shall tell me what I shall do or not do, I do as I please."

Markus


I think your friend is right. Government can't make you do anything you dont want to do. It can only make you wish you had. :hmmm::03:

[August]

I am curious. Is it possible to tell whether a person had the virus earlier and has now recovered? I know more than one person who is pretty sure they had something at least very similar back around the beginning of February.

[Rockstar]

I am curious. Is it possible to tell whether a person had the virus earlier and has now recovered? I know more than one person who is pretty sure they had something at least very similar back around the beginning of February.




I dont think there is a way to determine what they had without being tested for the virus. There was some talk early on about blood plasma from those who recovered from COVID-19 may help treat others, but I haven't heard much about it lately.

[Skybird]

I am curious. Is it possible to tell whether a person had the virus earlier and has now recovered? I know more than one person who is pretty sure they had something at least very similar back around the beginning of February.
Yes, it is possible, apparently.


Current tests do test for presence of RNA, which means: the virus is there.


A new test that is hoped to be released soon tests for the presence of antibodies instead, which means the person's body has had a reason to form them: and that is the virus was or is present. This test does not tell you, however, whether the virus is still there, or is a thing of the past.

[Skybird]

Yes, a second wave will come once lockdowns are eased. It's unavoidable, because countries cannot remain in lockdown indefinitely while waiting for a vaccine.

That makes the strategy, if it is being run, a very risky approach. Because if the others fought the first wave, and delayed sufficiently until by surprise a vaccine becomes avialable earlier than expected, the politician saying "let it burn through" will be seen as a mass murderer. Indeed I called Johnson somewhere that in some postig when I learned that he early adopted to the concept. He would have accepted the high losses of the first wave, while the others kept them down - and by vaccination avoided the second wave, the rebound. Apparently the UK seems to have moved away from that approach, however.

I am now in paralysis over what to think of these two concepts in comparison. The ethical implications are mindboggling. I HATE to be in this state.

I thin k I tend to still agree with the European way, fightign the first wave, delaying, an then delaying and delaying and hoping that it wins enough time for the vaccine to arrive.

This virus is diabolic. They say 50-75% of cases are asymptomatic? That has written "nightmare" all opver it. Good luck with containing such a beast. I aloso predict, but that is my own guessing only, that this would mean it is very susceptible to mutate easily.

Well, apparently it was designed as a weapoin, so what else to expect than destruction maximised. This was then developed not so much to take out troops, but to disrupt civil societies and destroy their financial-economic basis.

When this all is kind of under control, it is high time to start playing extra-tough with China. They must pay for this, accidental escape or not. And they must be stopped. Their aggfressive grab for dominance, both economically and militarily, has become a danger for the rest of the world. The deaths we already have, are an act of war.

[Rockstar]

Yes, a second wave will come once lockdowns are eased. It's unavoidable, because countries cannot remain in lockdown indefinitely while waiting for a vaccine.


China, Singapore, Hong Kong, and South Korea all went into immediate and draconian lockdowns, plus started doing massive testing almost immediately, did very extreme contact tracing, quickly identified clusters, and squashed them. Also, all of their citizens were forced to wear surgical masks. This made a huge difference in reducing the spread of the virus. As your prosperity tree guy has said right at the beginning of his video those numbers are 'botched'. Yet he continues to use them to peddle his encouragement.

Even though they saw what was happening in Asia and had ample time to prepare, the US and Europe waited too long in order to keep their economies humming along, but are now far past the point of containment and contact tracing because it has already spread everywhere. Their healthcare systems are about to get crushed with a huge increase of infected patients. Spare hospital beds, ICU rooms, ventilators, and PPE were already in short supply even before this pandemic began. It's going to get ugly very quickly. Nothing like any of us have ever seen. It has been widely acknowledged China was battling this virus long before they notified anyone what they were up against. It began spreading throughout this planet long before any of us even knew about it or could close our borders. Furthermore it is also widely known no government or private entity on the planet was prepared for this kind of thing. Its slow going but we are heading in the right direction. I also think we will be better prepared next time something like this happens. Time will tell.

And the bigger question is why there are many reports of fully recovered patients with no more symptoms becoming reinfected again (with symptoms) within 3-4 weeks after testing negative? Relapse? A new strain? No immunity? This is very worrying. You can go to any reputable source and find out why. “If you get an infection, your immune system is revved up against that virus,” “To get reinfected again when you’re in that situation would be quite unusual unless your immune system was not functioning right.”






just my opinions.

[August]

I dont think there is a way to determine what they had without being tested for the virus. There was some talk early on about blood plasma from those who recovered from COVID-19 may help treat others, but I haven't heard much about it lately.


So in other words there could be millions of people who have gotten and recovered from Covid without ever knowing what it was, and if they were counted through a post illness test then the mortality rate (and perhaps some of the panic) would be significantly diminished.

[Rockstar]

So in other words there could be millions of people who have gotten and recovered from Covid without ever knowing what it was, and if they were counted through a post illness test then the mortality rate (and perhaps some of the panic) would be significantly diminished.
:yep:


Though I must admit they dont call it Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome for nothing. I do believe we have the technology, facilities and medical professionals that can treat this. However if the spread isn't mitigated it may overload our healthcare system and its that overload which will increase death rates, that came from the CDC. But ya, I think this has been spreading around the world long before we knew what was going on. Which is in part why I think ol' Tony Fauci said our case fatality rate would probably be closer to 1% since the number of infected is probably already well beyond our wildest dreams! lol Time will tell.

[Traveller]

So in other words there could be millions of people who have gotten and recovered from Covid without ever knowing what it was, and if they were counted through a post illness test then the mortality rate (and perhaps some of the panic) would be significantly diminished.If millions around the world have already been infected, there would have already been a huge increase in the number of hospitalizations and deaths. As healthcare systems would be instantly overwhelmed, this could not be covered up, so I doubt this is the case (yet).

[ET2SN]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning(ish) for my normal weekly shopping.

BTW, before I get started, I live in Iowa. About 30 miles south of Des Moines which puts us at the fringe of the DSM suburbs.

Most of the store looked normal, no price gouging and good selection.
TP, paper towels, cleaning detergents and soap (bath/bar soap is still plentiful) are GONE. The seagulls have already cleaned these isles out and the management posted signs on the empty shelves saying "due to hording, the store has limited purchasing of this item to one package per customer". What that item could have been, I haven't a clue because the shelf is bare. :o
Everything else was normal but I got some 411 from the cashier that "cheap" cigarettes are mostly gone. :hmmm: These are the off-off brand of smokes that, as it turns out, were imported. So, read into that what you want. Marlboros are no problem (please, no judging, I'm just telling you what I've seen). TP won't be an issue for me for at least another month but more about that later.

The key take-away so far- The first wave of the panic hit sometime last week and its mostly limited to paper goods and cleaning supplies. Canned foods are not a problem (odd?), at least not yet. TP may as well have never been invented, its just gone. There were no "guards" or "greeters" at the store to limit entry, but this is Iowa and, for the most part, this is how we do. :shucks:

People look slightly freaked but had a good grasp on what's going on. We all understand the big picture in terms of the new virus, most of the worry is saved for the economy.

So, the big issue is TP. :doh: This wasn't a problem on my personal radar because I would buy in bulk when the supply would get low. Now, however, its going to be a problem of what to do when the neighbors come a-knockin'.
And I'm giving that scenario a couple of days to play out because a lot of folks seem to have been caught flat footed. I got a notice on my door today about not flushing odd stuff down the head, so hoo-we here we go. :O:

[Rockstar]

If millions around the world have already been infected, there would have already been a huge increase in the number of hospitalizations and deaths. As healthcare systems would be instantly overwhelmed, this could not be covered up, so I doubt this is the case (yet).




When did those projections begin? Most of the ones I've seen seem to begin around the end of January 2020. It been thought China was up against this virus from least October or November 2019 and we didn't close our borders with them for another 3 or 4 months. Europe is another story even after Italy started burning they just kept things open for travel up until the day after we finally closed our border with them.

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, it is possible, apparently.


Current tests do test for presence of RNA, which means: the virus is there.


A new test that is hoped to be released soon tests for the presence of antibodies instead, which means the person's body has had a reason to form them: and that is the virus was or is present. This test does not tell you, however, whether the virus is still there, or is a thing of the past.

That's my understanding too. If a person has been infected with a virus, usually the virologists will be able to pick up something in the blood that shows the person has had it, even if it was mild.

[Traveller]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m24LNTjB6jg

[Hitman]

Yes, it is possible, apparently.


Current tests do test for presence of RNA, which means: the virus is there.


A new test that is hoped to be released soon tests for the presence of antibodies instead, which means the person's body has had a reason to form them: and that is the virus was or is present. This test does not tell you, however, whether the virus is still there, or is a thing of the past.


Apparently it is not uncommon for patients of many virus families to recover and still get positive in the tests even if immunity has been achieved. It is down to inactive traces remaining in the blood for some time until fully eliminated. In the case of the coronavirus it seems though that in some recovered cases, even if the disease is effectively defeated by the body, a low level of activity still remains for some time. Question now is it is also still contagious meanwhile. I will try to the find the link where I read it yesterday, but it is in spanish.

Also, the chinese now say they found a vaccine that could be effective and are starting testing it in humans. Again links in spanish, sorry use google translate or search directly in english:

https://www.elmundo.es/ciencia-y-salud/salud/2020/03/18/5e7157b621efa0cf108b4688.html

https://www.antena3.com/noticias/mundo/china-anuncia-que-tiene-vacuna-coronavirus-empezara-probarla-humanos_202003175e714c2277b6810001af0571.html

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20200317/474239537005/coronavirus-china-asegura-tener-vacuna-covid-19.html

[Skybird]

your prosperity tree guy

Chris Martenson, PhD (Duke), MBA (Cornell) is an economic researcher and futurist specializing in energy and resource depletion, and co-founder of PeakProsperity.com (http://peakprosperity.com/) (along with Adam Taggart (https://www.peakprosperity.com/about-adam-taggart)). As one of the early econobloggers who forecasted the housing market collapse and stock market correction years in advance, Chris rose to prominence with the launch of his seminal video seminar: The Crash Course (https://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse) which has also been published in book form (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047092764X?ie=UTF8&tag=chrismartenso-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=047092764X) (Wiley, March 2011). It’s a popular and extremely well-regarded distillation of the interconnected forces in the Economy, Energy and the Environment (the “Three Es” as Chris calls them) that are shaping the future, one that will be defined by increasing challenges to growth as we have known it. In addition to the analysis and commentary he writes for his site PeakProsperity.com, Chris’ insights are in high demand by the media as well as academic, civic and private organizations around the world, including institutions such as the UN, the UK House of Commons and US State Legislatures.

He is also a studied toxicologist.

I know, the above is from his website, but I confirmed the data and claims in it with two german sources who confimed all that and described him the same way. Since Traveller brought this guy to my attention, I researched him a bit already last week. Thanks for that, Traveller, very useful action of yours. Also thanks for that John Campbell link, who also was a unknown to me before. What these two men publish on this Corona crisis, is pure gold in updates on the situation, I put it above anything I can find in German media.

He knows how to read those numbers and graphs.

His news is not much loved by many, he receives threats and repeatedly is target for intimidation attempts, his social media accounts got repeatedly blocked and switched off. Somebody or some people do not want him to tell the thigns he tells, not just on Corona, but especially on finance and economy things.

We seem to have a very good man over here, too, a professor Drosten, specilaist for Corona virusses with international credits and an impressive biography int he field, but since he is associated with advising the government now, this puts everything he says a bit under the suspicion of doubts, since this function necessarily binds his tongue and puts legal limits on what he is allowed to do and to say - and what not. Else, Drosten is a calm and very professional medical expert for the matter, his approach to how to delay Corona may work better than the approaches of other countries, we will see. The government at least usually listens to him and does what he says, although always with a one day delay. I would put more trust in his words however if he were not associated with the government job. But then maybe his influence on the going of things would be marginal, if even existent.

[Skybird]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m24LNTjB6jg
And me gets called a pessimist... :LOL:


He is probably right. Think I stockpile more wine gum.

[Catfish]

[...]
When this all is kind of under control, it is high time to start playing extra-tough with China. They must pay for this, accidental escape or not. And they must be stopped. Their aggfressive grab for dominance, both economically and militarily, has become a danger for the rest of the world. The deaths we already have, are an act of war.
That.
I was already going to post something like this, it is the second time (we know of) "something" has escaped from the Wuhan laboratories.

[Traveller]

And me gets called a pessimist... :LOL:

He is probably right. Think I stockpile more wine gum.

I'd say he's more of a realist than a pessimist. But he is also always advocating for people to work together and help their families, friends, and neighbors.

But I do think total martial law is coming to the US and elsewhere in an attempt to hold things together. The US National Guard is currently deploying everywhere, and even the regular US Army is standing by to deploy if needed.

The entire banking system is currently unwinding due to the pandemic, and economies around the world are failing. The US DJIA has already lost around 30% of its value in 2 weeks, and this thing is just getting started. Trump announced a $1 trillion aid package. The US Federal Reserve just used their last remaining ammo by lowering interest rates to zero. There is now nothing else they can do now but print, print, print money.

Expect probable hyperinflation, massive unemployment, and economic collapse worldwide if 'flattening the curve' lasts longer than 3 months.

On top of all this, most Americans have zero savings in the bank.

This collapse is going to make the 2008 shock look like a joke. Prepare for martial law, and possibly a complete breakdown of the system once workers stop showing up for work because they are not getting paid.

How's that for optimism? ;)

[Jimbuna]

Report from a nurse, starting 01:35. Heart-breaking.



Watch it. Get the message. Do it. Stay locked.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr0Cqlf5xK4

It most certainly is :yep:

[Jimbuna]

^ it is them who cause a panic, and it is not worth a sh... . Stores plan their stock to sell a few weeks ahead, and it certainly takes time to adapt. There is no shortage of goods, right now it is those panicking hoarders who cause all the fuss :nope:

Agreed but the supermarkets could help by imposing quantity restrictions.

[Jimbuna]

Uncanny timing :o

Supermarkets have introduced strict limits on how many goods people can buy to try and curb stockpiling as the coronavirus pandemic escalates.

Sainsbury's and Asda have both said they will stop shoppers buying more than three of any particular food item.

Sainsbury's has also said it will prioritise vulnerable and elderly people for online deliveries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51941987

:yeah:

[STEED]

^Meaningless as there is always a way to by pass these measures it is too late the horse has bolted the barn.

[STEED]

Reported on the news London has the biggest death rate. Stand by for the predictable in the next few weeks. Of course I would rather not see it happen but.....

[AVGWarhawk]

Well I am sick of these bastards panic buying and I have reached the end of the line with these bastards, today I was up my town centre popped into a supermarket and it was stripped of almost all the food! You selfish bastards the lot of you..............

Oh and you the supermarkets let it happen just to make fast profit you greedy pigs and now you can not keep up with demand your staff are getting verbal abuse. Not from me as my anger is at you pigs in the board rooms rubbing your grubby little mitts.

What I am thinking can not be posted unless I get permission because I really had it up to here with these panic buying bastards the lot of you.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

We have experienced the panic buying here but not to the degree where people are getting unhinged and verbal exchanges. Toilet paper is still scarce oddly enough. I don't understand that. The shelves cleared but full again the next day. We have had little trouble finding what we normally
purchase weekly.

I don't understand the panic buying except perhaps many believe they will need to quarantine in place. That will not be necessary if all flow what is prescribed. Wash hands, if sick stay home and keep distance as much as possible. This is nothing new for anyone and what should be done with any virus/flu/cold, etc.

[Catfish]

They are also doing that here (Gemany) now, soap up to 2 pieces, toilet paper one package/person. About time.

Communism! :O:

We had a talk with the neighbours, whoever needs something that is currently sold out we will help out, or those being mobile try to get the missing stuff from other sources (one getting out, only one being exposed, and threatening to infect), also agreed to buy meds and so on for the elder around here.
oh sh.. just realized i'm not that young anymore :haha:

[Hitman]

That.
I was already going to post something like this, it is the second time (we know of) "something" has escaped from the Wuhan laboratories.

According to professor Osterholm, when interviewed by Joe Rogan, the virus is not human made because the genetics are quite simple and they can trace it down well in terms of when and where it did come from. He also said that nature is much better than us at doing viruses, so it's a bit of a waste of effort. Someone correct me, but I believe biological war is more about bacteriae and viruses that already exist.

That doesn't mean of course the virus was transferred from an animal to humans in a laboratory and escaped from there, but it seems more likely that it all has to do with those appalling wet markets. So yes, China should be give an ultimatum with regards to many things they have been doing/tolerating, as we can't afford such a breakout every X years.

[Rockstar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m24LNTjB6jg




Beware the Ides of March! :)

[Hitman]

Mathmatic models are already showing that 79% of infections are caused by people with no symptoms at all or only mild ones. The experience with the lockdown shows that it brought the transmission rate to 0.99, i.e. the ability to contain the epydemy.

https://www.elmundo.es/ciencia-y-salud/salud/2020/03/18/5e72065e21efa02c6c8b4583.html

Do your part, stay at home, flatten the curve!

[Jimbuna]

We have experienced the panic buying here but not to the degree where people are getting unhinged and verbal exchanges. Toilet paper is still scarce oddly enough. I don't understand that. The shelves cleared but full again the next day. We have had little trouble finding what we normally
purchase weekly.

I don't understand the panic buying except perhaps many believe they will need to quarantine in place. That will not be necessary if all flow what is prescribed. Wash hands, if sick stay home and keep distance as much as possible. This is nothing new for anyone and what should be done with any virus/flu/cold, etc.

They are also doing that here (Gemany) now, soap up to 2 pieces, toilet paper one package/person. About time.

Communism! :O:

We had a talk with the neighbours, whoever needs something that is currently sold out we will help out, or those being mobile try to get the missing stuff from other sources (one getting out, only one being exposed, and threatening to infect), also agreed to buy meds and so on for the elder around here.
oh sh.. just realized i'm not that young anymore :haha:

I'm not convinced toilet paper is as big a necessity as soa[ and basic foodstuffs....provided you have running water :hmmm:

[Traveller]

I'm not convinced toilet paper is as big a necessity as soa[ and basic foodstuffs....provided you have running water :hmmm: No food = Toilet paper unnecessary. :D

[Onkel Neal]

Note: I received an alert triggered from the Subsim forum maintenance system, some of you have been going back and deleting massive number of posts in this thread. This is not allowed (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_topic), the reason is if people make statements, other people respond to them - that's what a discussion is. It makes discussion incoherent when big parts of the discussion are removed later.

If you received a warning, or if you are unable to edit/delete posts, you were responsible. Please continue with your participation in the discussion but perhaps choose your words more carefully. We want to hear what you have to say. If you say it, you should own it.

Neal

[STEED]

If my elderly parents catch this and die from it I will send China the bill for their funerals and I am being very serious about that. In fact we should send funeral bills to China. Of course I pray none of us loose anyone.....


Update from friends around here been out shopping in the last 24 hours all supermarkets are being picked clean, tea and coffee going fast now. I want the Army to have the right to go into every house and inspect how much food they have and if they are these panic scumbags a percentage of that food taken away from them and distributed to those who have been deprived by these scumbags.

[vienna]

Here in Los Angeles the food markets and the stores such as Target and Walmart have set aside the first hour of store operation as a "Senior Citizens Only" time slot; there were a lot of seniors who were being shut out of buying necessities by idiot hoarders and even pushed aside by boorish, inconsiderate customers, so the stores, acting on their own initiative, started the new time slot as a means of leveling the field and giving the seniors a better shot of fulfilling their needs for food and other items without being shoved aside or their having to wait in long lines...


From what I've heard since the first reports of this new practice, the idea has spread to other areas and other businesses...






<O>

[STEED]

I don't understand the panic buying except perhaps many believe they will need to quarantine in place. That will not be necessary if all flow what is prescribed. Wash hands, if sick stay home and keep distance as much as possible. This is nothing new for anyone and what should be done with any virus/flu/cold, etc.

Agreed. as it stands with all the evidence the biggest group in danger are the 60 plus and those with health issues. The simple message is just not sinking in to some people, its not rocket science its common sense.

We are in the region of two weeks behind Italy and wonder what stupid madness is next.

[Jimbuna]

Here in Los Angeles the food markets and the stores such as Target and Walmart have set aside the first hour of store operation as a "Senior Citizens Only" time slot; there were a lot of seniors who were being shut out of buying necessities by idiot hoarders and even pushed aside by boorish, inconsiderate customers, so the stores, acting on their own initiative, started the new time slot as a means of leveling the field and giving the seniors a better shot of fulfilling their needs for food and other items without being shoved aside or their having to wait in long lines...


From what I've heard since the first reports of this new practice, the idea has spread to other areas and other businesses...






<O>

Likewise here in the UK with the supermarket chains.

[Traveller]

Trump says the US will close the border with Canada to ‘non-essential’ traffic.

[Onkel Neal]

https://i.redd.it/897exdjm8dn41.jpg

https://i.redd.it/r8q361hn8dn41.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Confirmed cases pass 200,000, more than 8,000 people have died.

Schools in Scotland and Wales are to close with England decisions "imminent"

The US and Canada plan to close their border, President Trump tweets, saying trade will not be affected.

EU countries have begun turning away travellers from outside the bloc.

Share prices fall in Europe and Asia as stimulus packages fail to reassure markets.

Glastonbury festival and Eurovison Song Contest cancelled.

[Hitman]

If there's a group of gamers who can enjoy lockdown, that's subsimmers :yeah:

CLOSE THE HATCH!! DIVE! DIVE! DIVE! :Kaleun_Salute:

[STEED]

Glastonbury festival and Eurovison Song Contest cancelled.

At last some good news. :yeah:

[mapuc]

Note: I received an alert triggered from the Subsim forum maintenance system, some of you have been going back and deleting massive number of posts in this thread. This is not allowed (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_topic), the reason is if people make statements, other people respond to them - that's what a discussion is. It makes discussion incoherent when big parts of the discussion are removed later.

If you received a warning, or if you are unable to edit/delete posts, you were responsible. Please continue with your participation in the discussion but perhaps choose your words more carefully. We want to hear what you have to say. If you say it, you should own it.

Neal

I have only erased one post from this thread and I did this earlier today(after midnight)
I wrote a reply to STEED, where I in words described a funny cartoon and I also wrote that I don't know if I'm allowed to post it here.
One of them was
Toilet paper shortage alternatives
#3
The Escalator Hand-rail option.

After a couple of minutes I decided to erase it.

Markus

[Rockstar]

I've only visited New York City once in my life and I was absolutely amazed how crowded and filled with life the streets were day or night. Its looks like a ghost town now. Traffic is actually moving too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRe-514tGMg

[Mr Quatro]

I've only visited New York City once in my life and I was absolutely amazed how crowded and filled with life the streets were day or night. Its looks like a ghost town now. Traffic is actually moving too.


New York has a life of it's own or a Spirit I should say that's different from any where else I have been from the hot dog carts to the street vendors to the people playing guitars to the taxi drivers to being surrounded by the tall buildings it is different.

I was driving through an alley one time and saw a long line of men and women well dressed going up a fire escape so I stopped and asked a well dressed black man, "What's going on"? and he said, "We are applying for jobs man"

Strong willed people use to adversity with something like 7 million people in a fifty mile area.

Yes New York is different :yep:

[Catfish]

[...] Eurovison Song Contest cancelled.
There is a bright side :O:

[Skybird]

Confirmed cases pass 200,000, more than 8,000 people have died.

As the good doctor said (John Campbell) : "Probably multiply numbers here in the UK with a factor 10 or 20." - He meant that the UK started late with testing and all that, like the US. The numbers for both are way too low, therefore, garbage quality at best.

The US is being overwhelmed already, I read. No more free ICUs within the next 14 days. In numbers the US has 48 thousand ICUs for a population of I dont know, some 300+ millions. Germany has still 28 thousand ICUs for 82 million, so the density is higher over here. But only a fifth of these are unoccupied beds in normal times, and I assume it is not much different in the US. That makes it 9600 ICUs free before the crisis began, and thta capacity already is up. In Germany its around 5500 free ICUs, and in parts that capacity also is already filled.



Here in Germany they already try to double the number of ICUs. Its just that nobody knows where the nurses and doctors and ventilators should come from, the amsks and protective gear (of which they already run terribly short right now). The world market leader for ICU ventilators of this kind sits in Germany, in my beloved city of Lübeck (we once lived 200m away from their compound), Draeger Werke, but their hand-production and hand callibration is such that the order for ten thousand units that was placed by the german govenrment (which is unusual that it is states ordeirng, normally it is just hospitals) surpasses their complete yearly production by a factor of 5. Also, they need many sub contractors delivering components, and part of those international supply chains already are severed or disrupted. And they do not have enough instructors to train staff and engineers to fine-callibrate the devices in place. You cannot just deliver them and nurses know how to run them all by temselves.



What politicians want, is one thing. What they can get when meeting reality, is something very different.

[Onkel Neal]

(If this is too political, tell me, I can move it)

Watch how Fox News has changed its tone on coronavirus
From previously downplaying risks and accusing the media of fearmongering, Fox News has taken a very different tone towards the coronavirus in recent days.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/03/17/fox-news-coronavirus-coverage-carlson-hannity-watters-orig.cnn-business/video/playlists/business-coronavirus/

Tucker Carlson being the notable exception, he got it from the beginning.

[Moonlight]

^ I'm not surprised by that news as its the Murdoch Family who owns most of it, Keith Rupert Murdoch is 89, he's probably lost any semblance of intellect he ever had, that's if the moron had any in the first place, I believe he should bow out gracefully and take one for the team (planet earth).

Any way the idiot is coming round to how dangerous this virus really is, at 89 I think the fear factor has gotten to him and self preservation is kicking in. :haha:

[Skybird]

I live in Münster, Northrhine-Westphalia. NRW is the federal state with the highest infection number and the biggest population of all 16 states. I now read that my hometown is rank 3 in NRW'S list on infection numbers. Means not many places in Germany are as toxic as this one. :-? NRW also holds the district of Heinsberg pn rank 1, which is the most infested area in whole Germany.


I need to dig deeper. If you notice that I stopped posting, you know why. :haha:

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/Rs9kllJ.jpg

[Moonlight]

@Skybird, just because you might contract this virus does'nt mean you should stop posting on here, you can give us a daily update with all the gruesome little details for us. At least we will have all the gory information first hand from a member and then we'll know what to expect when we start dropping like flies. I'll setup a fundraiser for you for when you meet your earthly demise, its the least we can do for you. :up:

[mapuc]

(I can't remember if I have posted this comment before)

What I fear most about this Corona virus, is that it will return somewhere in the autumn, more deadly and a lot more contagious even air born.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Nice thing about this guy he uses peer reviewed medical journals to make his points. Makes my point too that this has been spreading long before it even had a name. Look, we have the technology and we have the know how to treat patients. The death rates may increase but not so much because of the actual infection. But because health services may be so over whelmed they are unable to treat it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AToF8O5T86s

[STEED]

I noticed my town centre a lot less people and its market day and that was a busy day not now. More people wearing surgical masks and some of them not covering their nose oh my why bother.

[Rockstar]

There is no need to panic, but I'm certain of the need to isolate or at the very least reduce social contact. Keep track of of your whereabouts.

[Fifi]

Last news from France:
Today we have a total of 354 death with the COVID 19...
More than 6000 people infected.
Last year we had more than 8000 death with the Well known flu, and few hundred thousands infected ... go figure this damn panic :roll:

[Buddahaid]

Most people have already and some will never understand.

[Mr Quatro]

Last news from France:
Today we have a total of 354 death with the COVID 19...
More than 6000 people infected.
Last year we had more than 8000 death with the Well known flu, and few hundred thousands infected ... go figure this damn panic :roll:

From what little I understand one person with the flu can give it to three people, but one person with the covid-19 virus can give it to ten people (on an average)

[Skybird]

These are the reason why curefews and lock downs must be brought in now, AND MUST BE ENFORCED and violations drastically sanctioned.

We do not fight to make the everyone understand. We fight for saving lives by winning time.

-----

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/12/21172040/coronavirus-covid-19-virus-charts

[Bilge_Rat]

kids...in my days...:O:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=3009&stc=1&d=1584560653

[mapuc]

Last news from France:
Today we have a total of 354 death with the COVID 19...
More than 6000 people infected.
Last year we had more than 8000 death with the Well known flu, and few hundred thousands infected ... go figure this damn panic :roll:

One of my Danish friend said something similar.

He said between 2017 and 2018 there were 1774 death from our classic flu and people have panic on this Corona.

I said to him

How many thousand of the Danish population got the flu, those years.

If you know how many, you can also calculate the percentage of death.

And From my memory the death toll in Flu is less than 0.5 %-Where the elders and sick people have the highest percentage.


Markus

[Skybird]

@Skybird, just because you might contract this virus does'nt mean you should stop posting on here, you can give us a daily update with all the gruesome little details for us. At least we will have all the gory information first hand from a member and then we'll know what to expect when we start dropping like flies. I'll setup a fundraiser for you for when you meet your earthly demise, its the least we can do for you. :up:
When I said if I stop posting you know what that means, I meant it means: I am busy digging deeper holes. :O:

[mapuc]

Going through the inventory list.

1 Ordinary cat food- Approx. 5-6 month check
2. Extra cat food (wet) Approx. 2 month Check
Cat ok so far.

Myself
1. Toilet paper - Approx. 2-3 month Check
2. Coffee - Approx. 1 month- need to hoard
3. Tobacco - Approx more than 3-4 month check
4. Pot noddle - Approx 5-6 month check
5. Candy - Approx 3-4 month check
6 Cookies - Approx. 1 month-need to hoard.
7 Pasta - Approx. 1 month-need to hoard.

Could there be more I need to survive ?
I do not need beer, though I don't drink it-Alcohol intolerance.

Markus

[u crank]

This is disturbing. But not surprising.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/03/wuhan-virus-its-no-coincidence.php

Check out this 2007 article in Clinical Microbiology Reviews, titled “Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus as an Agent of Emerging and Reemerging Infection.” It begins:

Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus (SARS-CoV) is a novel virus that caused the first major pandemic of the new millennium (89, 180, 259). The rapid economic growth in southern China has led to an increasing demand for animal proteins including those from exotic game food animals such as civets. Large numbers and varieties of these wild game mammals in overcrowded cages and the lack of biosecurity measures in wet markets allowed the jumping of this novel virus from animals to human (353, 376). Its capacity for human-to-human transmission, the lack of awareness in hospital infection control, and international air travel facilitated the rapid global dissemination of this agent.


Bad. It gets worse.

Coronaviruses are well known to undergo genetic recombination (375), which may lead to new genotypes and outbreaks. The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored.

That was in 2007. Did the Centers for Disease Control take the hint?

Apparently not.

[Skybird]

Covid-Simulator online.


http://covidsim.eu/





The program was developed by epidemiologists Martin Eichner (University of Tübingen and Epimos GmbH) and Markus Schwehm (ExploSYS GmbH) together with health authorities in Baden-Württemberg. It is based on a classic model approach to describe the spread of infectious diseases.

[Onkel Neal]

Myself
1. Toilet paper - Approx. 2-3 month Check
2. Coffee - Approx. 1 month- need to hoard
3. Tobacco - Approx more than 3-4 month check
4. Pot noddle - Approx 5-6 month check
5. Candy - Approx 3-4 month check
6 Cookies - Approx. 1 month-need to hoard.
7 Pasta - Approx. 1 month-need to hoard.




:haha: I love it. Don't let Steed know.

Last news from France:
Today we have a total of 354 death with the COVID 19...
More than 6000 people infected.
Last year we had more than 8000 death with the Well known flu, and few hundred thousands infected ... go figure this damn panic :roll:

Thanks for the update!

Meanwhile, US will be passing South Korea and France very soon in total cases reported.
(https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

[mapuc]

The percentage I have heard so many, many times is dead wrong.

The death ratio is not between 3 to 6 % it is lower a lot lower less than 1 %.

It was some expert in the field of medicin(can't remember what he was) who said, it's impossible to give an exact number because we do not know the exact number of infected in an area or as whole.

Markus

[Eichhörnchen]

(I can't remember if I have posted this comment before)

What I fear most about this Corona virus, is that it will return somewhere in the autumn, more deadly and a lot more contagious even air born.

Markus

Thanks :)

[Catfish]

Going through the inventory list. [...]
Could there be more I need to survive ?
I do not need beer, though I don't drink it-Alcohol intolerance. Markus

Good list, maybe add some sugar, long-life milk, oil for frying, and cocoa? Maybe add some cans/tinned food. Cheap and easy to prepare.
Also you can easily bake bread yourself, with only a few basic ingredients like flour(s). Recipes are all over the 'net, or ask me. But you need yeast and/or baking powder, which is now out of stock here :o
If you extend it all to power outages maybe some candles, batteries, grain alcohol or something to burn in your Trangia stove, if you have something like that. Petroleum, for p. lamps, matches and so on.

[mapuc]

Good list, maybe add some sugar, long-life milk, oil for frying, and cocoa? Maybe add some cans/tinned food. Cheap and easy to prepare.
Also you can easily bake bread yourself, with only a few basic ingredients like flour(s). Recipes are all over the 'net, or ask me. But you need yeast and/or baking powder, which is now out of stock here :o
If you extend it all to power outages maybe some candles, batteries, grain alcohol or something to burn in your Trangia stove, if you have something like that. Petroleum, for p. lamps, matches and so on.

Thanks for the input.

Baking own bread-is the best way-the thing you need have a long durability, such as flour, sugar and salt. The only thing which doesn't have a long durability is yeast and most people buy the ordinary, this last less than a week, best is to use dried yeast-this has a lot longer durability than ordinary yeast.
Even better is baking soda-this is not as good as dried yeast. but its durability is far longer.

Cans of food is a good idea to..if buying those, then buy cans with content that can be eaten raw.

Secondly and not mentioned before is gardening.

If you have the possibility and this crisis runs into the late summer, then I say you should plant potatoes and carrots and other vegetable in your garden.
If you have a lawn and an area with flowers dig it up-let 1/3 of the flower be there - this is for the bees.

Potatoes, carrot and other vegetable can either be eaten raw or cooked.
And these can be saved in a homemade ditch - formed like a V-place you potatoes in one of these ditches and pour dirt over and they are protected.
Do so with rest of the vegetables.

Markus

[Eichhörnchen]

^ Moira bakes nice bread

I was planning a midnight sortie to Tesco tonight until she discovered that they all closed at ten o'clock... bugger! Her friend in the US told her their stores are all closing up at eight, so she thought she'd better check. "If he gets down there and they're shut then he'll do his nut", she said

I ranted to her about the thin veneer of civilisation... how you only have to give it a bit of a rub and it comes clean away, and we're back to the bloody stone-age... that these movies showing people turning into packs of animals are right on the money

"What will you do if I turn into a big animal?" I asked her... "Dress up in something nice, she said"

[Catfish]

^ :haha: Best wishes to Moira :D

^^ @Markus Dried yeast is better than fresh, yes. Just made a loaf with dried yeast that was said to expire in 2006 - still worked w/o problem. The dried yeast cells last forever.
There are lots of different whole grain flours, rye, wheat, buckwheat, spelt, they all work and you can e.g. mix them 50/50. You can add some seeds/crops(?) or hacked nuts for taste, or oatflakes or sunflower seeds for the upper crust, but even without it this bread will taste phantastic. And the ingredients are so cheap..
Since all events in our area have now been abandoned, including baking in an old baking house, we got a lot of fresh yeast and rye flour; they just distributed it for free aourd the folks here so it would not decay.

A garden is of course also great, you will need a big one though to support a family, speaking of hectares here. But even a smaller one will of course add to the supplies. Bees are important, i know..
Tinned food is good when you e.g. get sick and are not able to do hard work for a while.

[mapuc]

^ One of my biggest interest is baking and I have worked a lot in different Danish and Swedish bakery.

Markus

[Skybird]

Thanks for the input.

Baking own bread-is the best way-the thing you need have a long durability, such as flour, sugar and salt. The only thing which doesn't have a long durability is yeast and most people buy the ordinary, this last less than a week, best is to use dried yeast-this has a lot longer durability than ordinary yeast.
Even better is baking soda-this is not as good as dried yeast. but its durability is far longer.

Cans of food is a good idea to..if buying those, then buy cans with content that can be eaten raw.

Secondly and not mentioned before is gardening.

If you have the possibility and this crisis runs into the late summer, then I say you should plant potatoes and carrots and other vegetable in your garden.
If you have a lawn and an area with flowers dig it up-let 1/3 of the flower be there - this is for the bees.

Potatoes, carrot and other vegetable can either be eaten raw or cooked.
And these can be saved in a homemade ditch - formed like a V-place you potatoes in one of these ditches and pour dirt over and they are protected.
Do so with rest of the vegetables.

Markus
Dont buy flour, but wheat and rye. They last better, are not aes sensitive regarding storage, also, in times of shortages you are more likekly to find corn easily, than flour. And buy an electric and a handmill. The hand mill should have an exchangeable grinder, to grind flour but also to make flakes from oats as well, the better. Flour is impossible to get locally over her,e but complete corn not so much. Put the corns into the refirgerator, -28°C, for two or three days, that should kill or bugs and their eggs, hopefully. Seal it well. I always put one of these tiny paperbags with dehumidifying granulate into the glass or can before I screw it shut and seal it with M3 tape. These alone will get you very far, if you have them in quantity, they have good nutreition values, especially the oats. Add millet, give it the same full freezer treatment, its more multi-purpose in usability, and richer in nutrition value than rice, while beign cooked the same way (in water or in milk). - Why two mills, a manual and an electric one? If you want to make flour, you can manually sit and work on it for hours to get the quantity that you want, here you really prefer an electgric dece, but if electricity is gone, you are sacrewed, so a manual ahndmill/flakes-maker as well. And making oats flakes is by far not a time consuming thinmg if doing it manually.

Possibly a good cooffee mill will work good, too.

Impossible to get yeast in the shops, I found last time I was in shops. Wheat, yeats, noodles, oo paper - all gone. Milk prooducts in general also are out, Gouda cheese medium age, Parmesan, yoghurt. Eggs are very short in supply.

Maybe I start a warehouse thread for preppers next days. It seems we will have plenty of time in the coming weeks. At least quite some of us. Or a bugout bag thread, just for fun. Its entertaining to talk these things. And good ideas are always welcomed.



---


Merkel held a speech. She appeleaed, then there was plenty of pedagogical admonishment and moral educating, and more appealing, and all thsi with her ultra-soft anaconda-strangles-a-baby-very-softly-and-carefully voice for which I additonally dislike her so much. No order. No clear course plotting, just appelaing thjat peope should behave all by themsleves in a wa nmted direciton, jiust so that the state remain to appear sift and tame and all is soft and somewhat uplifting. All that with her usual total absence of authenticity and emotion. Lifeless. Sterile.

Merkel never was a good speaker, but this was some of the worst I have ever heard of her. But media aplalud her and echo the pedagogical and moral appealing.

What relaity htunks of this bull, cnas be seen here: Merkel claimed there is no curfew coming, that it is not wanted, and if we all are welläbehave, firnedly little kids, than why shoukld it be there. Short time later the first town distroict in announced a curfew. I assume somebody was just fed up with the softy-softy moralising and pedagocial educating lesson. There are many exceptions, but still.

Terrible this woman, absolutely terrible. I thought all the time of dead fish lying cold on a stone floor.

I stick to it, curfew is coming, because it has to. It must come. This moral example-setting for the world that seems to be a priority once again in berlin's thinking, must come to an end, the quicker the better.

[mapuc]

Following comment is a translated article from a Danish news paper.

The article is pointing at the Danish government and the Danish State. I think it's the same or almost the same in your country.

Start

It is frightening how easily they can deprive people of their freedom if they spreads panic

What we are witnessing right now is a large, sinister political experiment which shows how they in no time can deprive people of their constitutional freedoms,
if they start to scaremongering

It is frightening to witness the behavior of politicians, their terror campaign, the drastic measures, the communication to the population and the flawed impact assessment. The closure of the country, the borders and the introduction of special law with serious interference with the people's constitutional rights.

The entire course of action is extremely critical right from the start, the government has justified its actions with rates of mortality that have not been adequately analyzed but, on the other hand, are uncritically disseminated to the country's population. The WHO's first announcement was that mortality was 3.4 percent.

Professor and virologist Allan Randrup Thomsen urges insanity and explains how the figure is to be understood. He explains, among other things, that the exact death rates cannot be calculated as a percentage of infected people when one does not know the total number of infected people in a given geographical area. As not everyone tests, it is in itself impossible to arrive at an accurate number. The early death rate of 3.4 percent is not true, and both WHO and Professor Allan Randrup Thomsen conclude that the mortality rate is probably between 0.3 and one percent.

It is irresponsible that the Danish government did not take action from the start so that they could have limited the damage. It has been known for months that it is the old and infirm who are severely affected by COVID-19, and they could easily have protected those groups by restricting and controlling access to nursing homes, hospitals and institutions with immunocompromised people. Identifying vulnerable groups and protecting them rather than shutting down an entire country is easier. That would have been an affordable task compared to the one now towering.

At the same time, it is obvious that the approach chosen by the government is bringing out the inner swine in people. It's amazing how easy it is to brilliant by coming up at press conferences and panicking, shutting down an entire country and standing like another country mother and talking to the people about how we must stand together and keep a distance to protect the weak , the old and those with impaired immune system.

The consequences that will follow from the drastic measures taken by the Danish government are completely unclear and hardly anyone can predict how serious they will be. I doubt there has been an actual analysis of the long-term effects on society.

Failure of the elderly and infirm
The hypocrisy in Christiansborg and among those responsible in the regions is extremely colossal, because they were not interested in the old and weak before COVID-19 - the groups have been increasingly failed over the past 30 years. There has been cuts everywhere in the health care and home care sectors. The diet of senior citizens has become poorer with each passing year, personal hygiene assistance has been replaced by a sanitary napkin, and home cleaning is needed.

The elderly have been treated unworthily by changing governments. No government can be relieved to have participated in the cuts.

In addition, politicians have deteriorated working conditions for GPs and other health professionals. Local and regional hospitals have been replaced by scandal-stricken 'super' hospitals, and local emergency services are now lacking.

The health system does not have the capacity to handle the task of the COVID-19 sufferers, the government says, and it is the justification for introducing the emergency law that, among other things, allows the Minister of Health to compulsorily vaccinate and ban major assemblies without involving the Parliament.

The Special Act expires by itself in a year, but no professional expects a vaccine against COVID-19 within a year, so what should a special law on forced vaccination require?

How the special law should be used in practice is probably limited only by the imagination. It leads the idea of a boot at the front door and armbands with markings of the infected. Or maybe we should paint a white cross on the front door like during the plague?

What we are witnessing right now is a huge, great political and social experiment where you can helplessly sit on the sidelines and see what anxiety does to people and how you can in no time deprive people of the freedom to live normally in considerate dealings with his fellow men.

End of article

Markus

[mapuc]

@ Skybird.

Mel=flour is mostly made of wheat.

I could not remember the exact english word for the Danish word Mel, so I used translate and got flour.

Markus

[Skybird]

The German words are Mehl and Getreide.

I wanted to tell you you should not store or focus on grinded corns=flour, becasue it can rot more easily if stored wreong. Stroe the compelte corns from wheat, rye and oats, and grind them/flake oats when you need them.

Not the white powder, but the origoinal corns are what is to be stored.

Also, you can use them for preparing idnners and lunches, especially wheat. Let it swell, put it into a pan and heat it up, add cheese, some vegetable or meat flakes, some herbs, salt, some Italian spice mixture or whatver, et voilá.

Oats is nice when being cooked in cream and milk with chicken soup and onions, and some vegetable. Cook it untiol it is like a risotto. Delicious, but a calory-bomb, I warn you. Oh, essential spice: Schabziger Klee. We had a thread on that two or three years ago, I forgit the English name. Maybe Rockstar remembers, it was him I told the recipe, at least I think it was him.

[mapuc]

Wrong comment. Had to change it, after having read Skybird's comment a second time

Markus

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRR2ot8CuM4


Life is now changed. Forever. What was, is not coming back. You are on your own.More than this ^ there is not to say.

And crude oil - -17.6%...? Now at 22.21 ? As he says, this is gonna destroy whole national economies, national budgets, oil corporations.

[August]

If millions around the world have already been infected, there would have already been a huge increase in the number of hospitalizations and deaths. As healthcare systems would be instantly overwhelmed, this could not be covered up, so I doubt this is the case (yet).


I think you're making the mistake of assuming that everyone who gets the virus will become severely ill. They have repeatedly said that many people will experience mild symptoms, and perhaps none at all. Obviously these folks are not likely going to be counted with the confirmed cases. What if only one in three that gets the disease gets sick enough to report it? What does that do to the death rate?


Edit: From Mapuc's post above:


Professor and virologist Allan Randrup Thomsen urges sanity and explains how the figure is to be understood. He explains, among other things, that the exact death rates cannot be calculated as a percentage of infected people when one does not know the total number of infected people in a given geographical area. As not everyone tests, it is in itself impossible to arrive at an accurate number. The early death rate of 3.4 percent is not true, and both WHO and Professor Allan Randrup Thomsen conclude that the mortality rate is probably between 0.3 and one percent.

[Skybird]

Welcome to war.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_CGR_nVqpc

[Mr Quatro]

Turn out the lights the party is over in Las Vegas at least :o


Las Vegas Strip Shut Down Due to COVID-19 Pandemic


https://www.si.com/gambling/2020/03/18/las-vegas-strip-shut-down-coronavirus-covid

The bright lights of the Las Vegas Strip are shutting down for a minimum of 30 days by order of the state of Nevada. It's most definitely an unnerving moment in history for the world's most iconic gambling destination


15 Las Vegas Strip resorts close Tuesday because of coronavirus

https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-03-15/14-vegas-strip-hotels-and-casinos-to-close-tuesday-because-of-coronavirus

[Eichhörnchen]

https://i.imgur.com/D5Bm69z.jpg