Wuhan virus 2020

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vsbk4zqJoQ

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/Nj0rMfR3/119881881-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-10aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/JG9hY86x)

[Rockstar]

Coworker update.

Spoke with him today as he is back to work he said he lives in a large apartment with four other persons. He and one other were vaccinated the other three were not. Though no one is sure who brought the cooties home and infected the others, all tested positive for COVID.

They were asked to quarantine for three days, all complied, all are asymptomatic and have resumed their normal daily routine.

I know it must suck for some here because none of the unvaccinated had died. But hey life goes on with or without those COVID Karens. Truly amazing organism that human body.

[Catfish]

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/unvaccinated-people-are-more-likely-to-die-of-covid-19-because-they-are-more-vulnerable-to-infection-and-severe-disease-tomi-lahren/

[Rockstar]

You are more likely to die from heart attack, stroke, starvation, AIDS, or be murdered in Chicago than dying from COVID.

[Catfish]

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

[mapuc]

You are more likely to die from heart attack, stroke, starvation, AIDS, or get murdered in Chicago than dying from COVID.

Maybe not but you can infect others who may die from it or get some longterm disease.

It's ok not to take the jab, but this doesn't mean you should act disrespectful.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

or be murdered in Chicago than dying from COVID.

Depends on how you present yourself in Chicago.
And that is a real World picture of me and how I travel now days.
I've also upgraded with inserts to handle 45 ACP rounds at point blank range.
Yeah. It would hurt like hell and maybe break ribs but I'd walk away!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=11992

[3catcircus]

Maybe not but you can infect others who may die from it or get some longterm disease.

It's ok not to take the jab, but this doesn't mean you should act disrespectful.

Markus

The same can be said for the flu or a common cold. The frail and immunocompromised catch colds and flu that results in pneumonia and subsequent death *all the time*, we've just never paid attention to it - and no one really tried to determine the actual number of flu deaths each year (it's a huge number) because non-communicable pneumonia as a cause of death means the reporting burden is less. My mother caught a head cold in her 70s. It moved to her chest. She had COPD and that chest cold turned into pneumonia. 10 days on a ventilator. Upon removal from the vent, died with 4 hours. Should we make every person who catches the flu or a cold go into quarantine? Should we forcibly vaccinate every person for flu?

Or to put it another way, are we allowed to be "normal sick" or is everything COVID now?

[Arlo]

Depends on how you present yourself in Chicago.
And that is a real World picture of me and how I travel now days.
I've also upgraded with inserts to handle 45 ACP rounds at point blank range.
Yeah. It would hurt like hell and maybe break ribs but I'd walk away!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=11992

If you're that scared of living there you'd be better off moving (it'd be less expensive, as well).

[Jeff-Groves]

If you're that scared of living there you'd be better off moving (it'd be less expensive, as well).
There is NOTHING that scares me!

I travel all over the Country for my line of work.
I HAVE probably been in every hell hole in every City in every State!
So you wonder why I go heavy?
I've had people robbed at gun point out side a job site.
I have had people KILLED near a job site!
I have had several robbery attempts made on me personally!
How's that compare to your everyday life?

Not one who knows how the real world works are you?
You think staying alive is a joke? I can tell you it is not a joke!
You read about people going nutz over masks and it's not your problem.
I face more in a day the most here will face in a year!
I have job sites that are like a damned prison camp to keep thieves out!
In after Sun rise out before Sun Set. Are you tough enough to do that?

So you go ahead and judge me from your arm chair.
I'm the real World Don't Screw With Me Guy doing what makes you wet your pants.
I'm one of the real Hero's that keep job site building housing going.

How many days in a week do you put your life on the line?
I'm also a Veteran of the 82nd AirBorne and volunteered to jump out of AirCraft!
What's your claim to fame?

[Arlo]

There is NOTHING that scares me!

I travel all over the Country for my line of work.
I HAVE probably been in every hell hole in every City in every State!
So you wonder why I go heavy?
I've had people robbed at gun point out side a job site.
I have had people KILLED near a job site!
I have had several robbery attempts made on me personally!
How's that compare to your everyday life?

Not one who knows how the real world works are you?
You think staying alive is a joke? I can tell you it is not a joke!
You read about people going nutz over masks and it's not your problem.
I face more in a day the most here will face in a year!
I have job sites that are like a damned prison camp to keep thieves out!
In after Sun rise out before Sun Set. Are you tough enough to do that?

So you go ahead and judge me from your arm chair.
I'm the real World Don't Screw With Me Guy doing what makes you wet your pants.
I'm one of the real Hero's that keep job site building housing going.

How many days in a week do you put your life on the line?
I'm also a Veteran of the 82nd AirBorne and volunteered to jump out of AirCraft!
What's your claim to fame?

Relax, honey. You look like you're afraid if you really feel like going around in G.I. Joe garb is what's keeping you alive. Yay for your Army Airborne experience. During my Navy experience we didn't jump out of perfectly good aircraft, but hey ... seems it coulda been fun. As far as fame is concerned, you don't seem any more famous than me. ;)

P.S. Sounds like you need a new/better job. Take care, Joe. :)

(Not impressed or intimidated.) *ShruG*

[Rockstar]

Even Bret is beginning to wonder about why this obsession with vaccinations? Can you guess what happened next? Yep, YouTube banned them! First to go are the educated intellectual thinkers to be replaced with useful idiots who don’t ask questions.

https://youtu.be/Pp_ZR-o-eXs

[Buddahaid]

That is clearly wrong as this is not misinformation but discussion.

On another note, the only two people in my work group who have not been vaccinated are now at home with Covid. I expect they will be fine but it's still early.

[3catcircus]

That is clearly wrong as this is not misinformation but discussion.

On another note, the only two people in my work group who have not been vaccinated are now at home with Covid. I expect they will be fine but it's still early.

Assuming that they are otherwise healthy, they have a 99+% chance of being just fine.

It would be very interesting to see what their antibodies look like 6 months after recovery in comparison to someone who was vaccinated and didn't get covid, as well as vaccinated and did get covid. Some data has been gathered, but not enough to be fully definitive across the board.

[Skybird]

I raise my glass of chlorine bleach to toast this author in salute ! :D


https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58164833

[Skybird]

A study by one of the two biggest health insurrers in Germany, AOK, covered sox mionth from the early stage of the pandemci lastr year and covers 6 months. It shows that one third of those who had to be hospitalized, within 6 months after their release had to be hospitalized again due to late Covid consequences. The study concludes that an infeciton with Covid not only cna see delayed late serious problems, but also a "healed" case can be affected by long-lasting serious health degradations that return even after a temporary disappearing.

[Skybird]

The mRNA vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech may be less effective than Moderna’s against the delta variant of the coronavirus, according to two reports posted on medRxiv on Sunday ahead of peer review.
People who received their second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine five or more months ago are more likely to test positive for Covid-19 than people who were fully vaccinated less than five months ago, new data suggest.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/09/moderna-may-be-superior-to-pfizer-against-delta-variant-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time.html

[August]

During my Navy experience we didn't jump out of perfectly good aircraft,

Except there is no such thing as an aircraft with US Airforce or US Navy markings that could remotely be described as "perfectly good". It's something that every Paratrooper like Jeff or myself learns pretty quick and it's why door positions are so highly prized. :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

That is clearly wrong as this is not misinformation but discussion.

On another note, the only two people in my work group who have not been vaccinated are now at home with Covid. I expect they will be fine but it's still early.

Probably will be ok, but if they develop severe symptoms, it's on them.

[AVGWarhawk]

Maybe not but you can infect others who may die from it or get some longterm disease.


Markus

The vaccinated can infect others as well. This argument does not hold water. Never has.

[mapuc]

The vaccinated can infect others as well. This argument does not hold water. Never has.

I think that an unvaccinated has double the chance getting infected from another unvaccinated than a vaccinated get infected from an unvaccinated or a vaccinated

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

The vaccinated can infect others as well. This argument does not hold water. Never has.

Very true but getting infected without being vaccinated is far riskier than of they had taking precaution and gotten vaccinated.

[AVGWarhawk]

I think that an unvaccinated has double the chance getting infected from another unvaccinated than a vaccinated get infected from an unvaccinated or a vaccinated

Markus

Sir, the vaccine does not prevent infection. It fights the infection if one is to contract it, lower chance of getting symptoms, no need to go to hospital and or no symptoms at all. Think of Typhoid Mary. She was not affected by typhoid. Carried it all day infecting others. The vaccinated, carries the virus in their sinus all day but not affected by it. One sneeze and off to the races. The new variant is contract by the vaccinated and transmittable.

[AVGWarhawk]

Very true but getting infected without being vaccinated is far riskier than of they had taking precaution and gotten vaccinated.

Bingo and FTW. As I stated a few posts back, the vaccine should have NEVER been sold as total immunity to the virus. The vaccine is to help in recovery if contracted. The virus still viable in the vaccinated nasal passages if it finds it's way there, but not making much of a issue for the vaccinated host.

One wonders if the vaccinated changed their behavior after getting the shot. Less social distance. Washed hands less.

[AVGWarhawk]

And to make matters worse:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/nurse-in-germany-suspected-of-replacing-covid-vaccines-with-saline-solution

Nurse replaces vaccine with saline.

[mapuc]

Sir, the vaccine does not prevent infection. It fights the infection if one is to contract it, lower chance of getting symptoms, no need to go to hospital and or no symptoms at all. Think of Typhoid Mary. She was not affected by typhoid. Carried it all day infecting others. The vaccinated, carries the virus in their sinus all day but not affected by it. One sneeze and off to the races. The new variant is contract by the vaccinated and transmittable.

I know these thing which I use to tell to my fb-friends when they say these vaccine is a hoax they do not protect you at all.

I tried to tell that an unvaccinated has a higher chance to get infected and if bad luck die from it or get some longterm disease, than a vaccinated.
A vaccinated has a 94% protection from getting infected and 82% protection from getting severe ill.

That's why the number of unvaccinated who are infected is on the rise in USA.
But also the vaccinated are infected as well but the number here is lower.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/3xYjD8JK/E8-Ymy2u-XMAEqlnx.png (https://postimg.cc/Mv3fC8Q4)

[AVGWarhawk]

I know these thing which I use to tell to my fb-friends when they say these vaccine is a hoax they do not protect you at all.

I tried to tell that an unvaccinated has a higher chance to get infected and if bad luck die from it or get some longterm disease, than a vaccinated.
A vaccinated has a 94% protection from getting infected and 82% protection from getting severe ill.

That's why the number of unvaccinated who are infected is on the rise in USA.
But also the vaccinated are infected as well but the number here is lower.

Markus

Understood. It does appear there is many misconceptions with the vaccine. And rightly so with the multitude of media, social media and the like making claims that do not exist.

But we must look at the words used. Does "infected" mean one is just carrying the virus around unaffected(vaccinated)? Does "infected" mean getting the virus and symptoms(vaccinated or not)? The words carrier and host are never used. Why didn't the CDC state the vaccinated could still be a carrier or host? I never hear or read any news outlet or the CDC state any of this. The unknown vaccine and what it can/can't do should have come with the stipulation that social distancing and mask wearing should continue because they simply did not know who long the vaccine would last. A variant is coming whether we like it or not.

[Skybird]

Not evertyhing is known in precise detail. What is safe knowledge, is this:


Carriers are already infectous to others days before they may form noticable symptoms themsleves. They spread the virus unknowingly, therefore. The number of days they are ifn ectous before such symptkms, and for hiow long after incubation time, varies with different strains of Covid.



The latter is becasue various straions come with diofefrent CT values and thusm, different viorus oads. The CT value is the worse the lower it is. It marks how many replication cycles the virus must undergo before it numerically overwhelmns the organism. If it needs few, it means the initial virus numbers already were very high. Thus: low CT value = higher infectousness.


Strains also vbary regardi ng ntheir lethality and potence to cause seriosu symptoms. Lamobda seems to be even more ifnectous than delta, for exmaple, but may not come with raised lethality. That is not yet verified and certain, though.


The number of days when you are ifnectous after incubation, is, for variosu strains, in the range of I thinlk 6 to 12 or 14 days. After that the carrier may sitll be symptomaic himself and may be ill, but does not infect others anymore, or does so with drmataically reduced probability.


Vaccinated perosns can catch and carry and infect with the viorus others still, so vaccinated tourists can catch a new strain in holiday and brign it with them. Therefore it makes sense to demand them to test and to wear masks.


Infection probability is higher in closed rooms qwith no mpoving air, than in the open with windy conditions.



The vaccines are almost preventing an infection with pre-Delta strains. With Delta, the vaccinaiton has an very reduced effeciency after the firts mRNA jab, anbd a still reduced, but better effect 14 days after the second jab. The immunization, the level of antobodies present in the blood, seem to delcine again after around 5-6 months. With Delta, the value of the jab lies not so much in preventing to catch the bug, but dramatically reducing the likelihood of formign seriosu symtpims and needing hospüitlaisations. Like a safety belt in a car does not protect you from getting hit by other cars, but it protects you from suffering imemdioaterly lethal injuries. But only when you fasten itk, of course.



If you do not use the seta belt and do not want the jab, and fate finds you and harm strikes you, you sugffer anbd maybe die not from your age, skin colour, reöpgious fiath and comorbidities, but form your own studpoidity. Because youd if not fasten the seatbelt and did not want to get vaccinated.


The argument that the jab does not protect you in full from getting infected with delta, only with earlier strains, and therefore is useless, makes as much sense as the argument that after a car accident the car is ruined if getting engaged in an accident and so seat belts are pointless.



Jabs are seat belts. They do nto protect agaiun st events happenign to you. But they help you to find it easier to survive them. Empirically there is no argument that comes even close at raising doubts about this.



Aerosol clouds in encol,sed comoartments can travel surprisingly faste rthna was though ealr ylast year, and they can stay in midair in infectous quality for up to hours. By summer last year we have seen several simnualtion models and comuter illustrations showiung this, for mthe US, Finland, Norway, and one or two models form Asia.



There is an extremely high correlation between Calcidiol levels int he b lood (active vitmaine D), and lethality of hospitalised cases. This correlation was foudn worldwide, and confirmed many, many, many times. You want minimums, MINIMUMS, of 30-40 nanograms/per millilitre blood. Better more. You need magnesium to enable your body to make metabolical use of your stored Vitamine D which is kept in reserve in yrur fat cells. You must take magnesium as well. You want K2 to help possible raised calcium in your blood from raised resorbation in the guts (a known effect of D3) being m,oved into the bones. At lower daily D3 intake,s this plays porbbaly no role. At extremely high doses, it does.



There are some drugs that ease symptoms of hospitalized Covid 19 cases, and the lethality during treatment thus has dropped. These are no cures so far, and their working method still is not fully understood. With raised expeirence came an increase in knowldge how to deal with Covid patients, and so less of the die. They nevertheless suffer if not beign put in coma. Intubation and lung machines seem to help pushing the death numbers upwards, the option should be seen as an option of last resort, not early "prevention", as was thought earlier last year. Being put on ventilator, is no fun, its a life-threatening condition, not only with Covid. Deaths are nor rare. Patients then face the martyrdom of needing to learn how to breath by themselves again. That means: agony, pyhsical exhaustion coupled with experiences and feelings of suffocating, having the head pushed under water. If you think lightly of that, nobody can help you. Many years ago I knew two people who had to go through ventilation and artificial coma after heart complkicaitosn, and after a car accident. They showed signs of traumatization from the learning-to-breath experience afterwards. Granted, these two peope were very extreme cases, but still: I urge everybody not to think carelsssly of it, as dsoemthig nbarmless. It isn'T, and the method itself has a high risk of deathl, too. Nobody should think of it as "routine". Sometimes you just cannot avoid it. But you should try to avoid it.



Well, this, not more and not lkess, seems to be the well-established and verified knwoeldge status. We have more theories ans hypothesis, and the virus specilaists certainly with their uch more in dpeth knwoeldge also would add plenty of detailed ideas, but much of that still is "in the works". I think I listed all the things that are of pragmatic value for the average Joe and that we do not have doubts on anymore. Scientifically. Antivaccers of course have their faith and will believe whatever fits their mission. And I think that mission is mostly about self-identification and self-definition. They hve investe dso muzchn of themsleve sinto this mvboement and its cklaiusm that it is hard to let go wiotho9ut crahsign hard in a reuced, harsh groudn of reality if giving up these sensational thinking models. Its a drug for them, a kick by weiuciubn they can think of themselves as something special, unique, heroic. They are junkies, and they are full of their own special creation. Take that illusion away, and they are just ordinary, grey everyday people again, caught in their normal ordinary everyday life. How shiny their heroic fight against the jabs instead seem to be! The temptation is a big one.

[Sean C]

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.


I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

[mapuc]

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.


I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

Even people who have been infected before can be it again-since Delta variant is a mutated version from former variant.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

I suppose there is no way to tell if a person who became extremely ill or died from Covid had been exposed in the past. IOW, I'm wondering if the most severe cases occurring now are limited to people who not only haven't been vaccinated, but also have never been exposed.


I'm also wondering what percentage of people who had ill-effects from the vaccine hadn't been previously exposed.

Well, the quarterback for the Raven has had COVID twice. So, we can assume that once over it it does not mean there truly is an natural immunity now. He is still not considering the vaccine.
:hmmm:

[Skybird]

British scientists say Delta has wrecked hopes for herd immunity.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/10/delta-variant-has-wrecked-hopes-herd-immunity-warn-scientists/

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/

[mapuc]

Well, the quarterback for the Raven has had COVID twice. So, we can assume that once over it it does not mean there truly is an natural immunity now. He is still not considering the vaccine.
:hmmm:

And the reason is mutation
You can be infected by virus A and survive and a few month later be infected by virus B. You can never be infected by the same virus variation twice

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

British scientists say Delta has wrecked hopes for herd immunity.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/10/delta-variant-has-wrecked-hopes-herd-immunity-warn-scientists/

I think that is a given.

[Skybird]

And the reason is mutation
You can be infected by virus A and survive and a few month later be infected by virus B. You can never be infected by the same virus variation twice

Markus
Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

[AVGWarhawk]

Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

Enter the booster shot.

[mapuc]

Reason also is that the level of antibodies fall again after 5-6 months. An attackign virus then meets less resistence when storming the beach, for the defender needs more time to get his defences up and reinforcements in again.

Can't remember when I read it.

It was an article about the development of a pill.
so instead of getting a jab in your left shoulder you take pills
I guess it will be with 14 days between first and second and the third booster pills after 3 month

Markus

[Catfish]

I raise my glass of chlorine bleach to toast this author in salute ! :D
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58164833
^ Could it be people who have not been vaccinated turn into zombies? Or have been all the time? :rotfl2:

[Skybird]

^ Could it be people who have not been vaccinated turn into zombies? Or have been all the time? :rotfl2:
No, I think they have been zombies already before and that is why they reject the vaccine. :D

[mapuc]

There is those who feel ok but infect others with Corona. Called something with symptomatic.. This have been among the unvaccinated.

How about the vaccinated how likely is it that a fully vaccinated is symptomatic
Of course will this person not go and take a test because the person is fully vaccinated and feel ok.

I think there is and these people infect vaccinated and non vaccinated.

Markus

[Skybird]

There are places with rule schemes where vaccinated holiday returners must nevertheless test. Which is logical only.

Vaccination does not protect against getting infected and thus being infectous for others for some time. The vaccines all have a high effectiveness against needing hospitalization. Their effectiveness against getting infected in the first, is still valid and a given, but is clearly smaller.
Seat belts do not protect against having accidents. They protect against flying through the windshield if accident happens. Headrests do not preotect against accidents. They only help against breaking your neck if you happen to have an accident. Corona vaccines do not 100% protect against infection, they help against hospitalization if you happen to get infected.

[Skybird]

This sucker makes his parents proud - not.


https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/11/entertainment/chet-hanks-covid-vaccine-rant-scli-intl/index.html


I hope he gets it, and hard. Some simply deserve it.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/vZvK18fy/119870580-uk-daily-vax-both-dose-9aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/DS86HTxp)
https://i.postimg.cc/jjdFyV47/119870583-vaccine-doses-per100-countries-rate9aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/MnN58F46)

[mapuc]

When politics comes before peoples health

Eight months after Iran banned imports of any vaccines developed in the United States or the United Kingdom, the country is in the grips of its deadliest coronavirus surge yet, prompting criticism of the government for prioritizing politics over public health.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/iran-facing-deadliest-coronavirus-surge-banning-import-us/story?id=79406699

Markus

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZbzqR4l-M

[mapuc]

Since first Covid-19 case I have read and heard a lot about people suffering from extra sickness due to the covid-19 infection.

Does the flu do the same ? Give extra sickness to those who had been infected by it ?

Extra sickness is NOT the correct word I just can't remember the correct word.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Dr you know who (starts with an F) just said that all Americans will need a third booster shot at some time in the future.

They can't even get everyone to take one shot much less two shots and now they want to make it mandatory for a third Covid shot.

But if they are successful would the data then show that not taking any shot or just one shot doesn't pan out in the data on which people are being admitted to the hospital or even dying. The odds are in the favor of the people that got all three shots.

Then the shots would be worth it in the end no matter what the side effects are.

[mapuc]

In the middle of July there were less than 40 Danish people in the hospital some of them was in ICU and a few in respirator.

Today the number has rosen to 113 whereof 43% is people under the age 30
In January 2021 the percentage was then 10 %.

The same is also happening in USA the percentage of young people getting severe ill from Covid-19 is on the rise

Markus

[Skybird]

Those German states where summer holidays already have ended, see a clear time link between returning vaccation travellers and school kids, and raising incidence rates. Affected is in general the age group I think 14 to I think 40 or mid-40s. What is alarming is that the number of even younger kids developing Long Covid symptoms, is mounting. But in general the hospitalization rate currently is much more relaxed than last year at this time. The vaccination rate in Germany currently was suspected to be higher than official counted, which has it at avalue of over 56% with full protection (2 jabs). But it could be more, far beyond 60%, these new calculations show.

All this raised incidenc most likely is due to increasing testing done with all the returnees, and infections being caught up in holiday, and the more intense social contacts of younger people.

Affected in these groups described are predominantly unvaccinated people.


Trend in Germany goes for an end of free PCR tests in Octobre. And in the forseeable future, cheaper quick antigen tests will not get you anywhere anymore at all. They are too erratic and unreliable anyway. The incidence rate criterion is to be beefed up since a higher incidence with a higher vaccination rate in the population nevertheless could mean less trouble for the health system and the ICU activity. As somebody put it: with a high enough vaccination rate, a new incidence rate of 200 may compare to an older rate of 50. Infections and pandemics not knocking people out, not overflooding the health system and ICUs, not causing many cases of Long Covid syndromes, and not eroding the workforce pool due to illness and/or quarantine, are not that big a problem anymore.

Precondition: a reaching and maintaining of a sufficient vaccination level with vaccines effective against the actual strains circulating.

And then it may become true one day maybe: that we can start living with Covid-19 like we live with the seasonal flu: not nice if you get it, but for most people of not high ages usually not a lasting issue.

Precondition for this scenario: that people get vaccinated.

I think a better scenario we probably will not get.

[Jeff-Groves]

I didn't get the jab until recently. It was after all the States opened up and the Delta was spreading that I went for the first shot.
I was on Vacation in several States over a 10 day period and saw SO MANY people crowding around with no masks and I knew there was NO WAY ALL were vaccinated!

Told my Wife then that it was gonna get bad again.
I'll risk the shots and take boosters if need be.
The odds are changing for the bad if not vaccinated from what I see.

[Skybird]

^ Reasonable risk assessment in action. The risk from the jab statistically is so ver ymuch smaller than from tkaing on the virus ionce it met you and gave you the hug.

Just consider the time factor, you do not have much protection against delta after one jab, and take 2 more weeks after the second before you get the best effect that is in for you. If you just got the first jab, you are on risky grounds for another 6-8 weeks, that means.


-----


My parents drive me crazy. They did all I told them with nutrients and supplements and Vit-D and all that stuff I mentioned in the forum, they did it all and still take it and are happy that both lost health issues accompanying them since many years. It did good for them, no doubt, like for me. But they stubbornly believe in all those conspiracy theories, and turned into full mode addicts for this sectarian madness stuff, i cannot get them to get vaccinated. They are mid and end 70, highly vulnerable. We never had battles with each other all our lives long, we had a very close relationship all the time, always stayed close, sworn-in family (I am 54). But this year, already last year from summer on when the vaccines arrived, we had some very bitter and harsh battles, and social conditions in family definitely have changed for the worse. Its heart-breaking, and at the same time I am furious, and clueless on what else to do. I leave them mostly alone, visit on phone or video only, only rarely in person. Which again they take queer. But my vaccination does not mean I could not infect others. If I am the one bringing in the plague that kills them, how should I live with that for the years I have left? I could never forgive myself that.


You see, this also explains, on a personal level, why I am so bitterly angry at antivaccers and their endless drivel. They had an impact on the relation between me and my parents, and its a terribly negative one. I will never forgive them that, I love my parents and owe them so much more than most people know. Its heartbreaking at times now. Because of drivel-talkers and stupids who are too full of themselves. I will never forgive them.

At least I got them getting pumped up with Vitamine D and my father is free of his diabetes symptoms and medications, and reduced his cardiovascular support drugs as well, perplexing his doc, his blood values are okay nevertheless. Whether that is enough once the virus finds them (its not if, but when), remains to be seen, due to their age. I wokr on getting my father on even more Vit-D. He is at 53 mcgr Calcidiol with his last test, I would like to see him at my levels of mid-70s, and would noit mind if he goes even higher. Also I would like him to get more Q10 and much less Omega sixers and more Omega-threes.

At the same time they want their common normal - and really quite undemanding - life back. Which they will not without vaccination and code.

I think I can say with justification that I also see the other side in these debates, too. I just do not allow emotions to rule over reason and logic. But its not easy if you are personally affected by conflicts like this.

[Jeff-Groves]

My Wife works in a retail store and is exposed on a MUCH greater level then I am. She still will not take the shots.

I told her that is her choice and another reason I am taking them.
I don't want to catch it if she should get infected.

Now I am fully aware I could still get it from her in a bad case scenario. But hopefully a less sever case of it.

In the mean time? I'm checking out dating sites.
;)

[mapuc]

My Wife works in a retail store and is exposed on a MUCH greater level then I am. She still will not take the shots.

I told her that is her choice and another reason I am taking them.
I don't want to catch it if she should get infected.

Now I am fully aware I could still get it from her in a bad case scenario. But hopefully a less sever case of it.

In the mean time? I'm checking out dating sites.
;)

Have you asked her why she wouldn't take the shot ?

The only person I know who are not going to take the shot is my 80 year old mom.
Beside that I have only read about people rejecting the jab and their reason is many..sadly many is based on conspiracy. There is also those who based it on facts.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Nancy is her own person. I love her to death but I will NEVER tell her to do something she does not want to do.

I don't care why she will not take the shots. That is her choice and it is a very personal choice for each of us with all the conflicting info out there.

I would not be the partner she married long ago if I pressured her.
And that always works both ways in our relationship.

She did not question me when I changed my mind to get the shot.

Well. There was one question. I told her I'd take the shots if they gave me a million dollars.
Once I got the first shot?



She asked if I had the million dollars!

[Rockstar]

Nancy is her own person. I love her to death but I will NEVER tell her to do something she does not want to do.

I don't care why she will not take the shots. That is her choice and it is a very personal choice for each of us with all the conflicting info out there.

I would not be the partner she married long ago if I pressured her.
And that always works both ways in our relationship.

She did not question me when I changed my mind to get the shot.

Well. There was one question. I told her I'd take the shots if they gave me a million dollars.
Once I got the first shot?



She asked if I had the million dollars!


Women are like cats… you can only make them do what they want to do. ;) :D

[Jeff-Groves]

Women are like cats… you can only make them do what they want to do. ;) :D

She's not quite cat like. She don't knock everything off the tables!
:haha:

[Rockstar]

She could do what others have done and get tested for antibodies. Who knows, she may have already had it and developed a natural immunity. But if she isn’t that fact may make her rethink her position.

[Jeff-Groves]

She could do what others have done and get tested for antibodies. Who knows, she may have already had it and developed a natural immunity. But if she isn’t that fact may make her rethink her position.

Tell you what. You want to talk to her? Send me your phone number and I'll have her call you.
I am in NO WAY going to try to change her mind and it would be funny to hear her tell you to FO!
:har:

[Sean C]

Have you asked her why she wouldn't take the shot ?

The only person I know who are not going to take the shot is my 80 year old mom.
Beside that I have only read about people rejecting the jab and their reason is many..sadly many is based on conspiracy. There is also those who based it on facts.

Markus


My wife [reluctantly] got the vaccine. Primarily because she was tired of wearing a mask and, at the time, mask requirements had relaxed. I haven't and I don't plan to. Here's why (in no particular order):


I'm relatively young (42) and healthy, so low[er] risk for severe or life-threatening symptoms from Covid.
The vaccine - like any medical treatment - is not and never will be 100% safe, so the gain of avoiding flu-like symptoms IMO does not outweigh the risk of serious side-effects.
I think there are many others who could benefit much more from it, so why take one away from them?
I am in contact with hundreds of people every day, and I have not gotten sick since this whole thing started. I find it unlikely if not impossible that I have not already been exposed at this point.
The vaccine does not prevent one from contracting or spreading the virus, so the precautions I take would not differ.
I have doubts that this vaccine was created and engineered 'from the ground up', so to speak, specifically for this virus. The time frame is just too short. That's not to say that I think it is entirely ineffective or unsafe*.
AFAIK, I do not have prolonged contact with high-risk people - so there is little chance that I will spread it to them.

We are very much like Jeff and his wife. We do not question each other's judgement, and we would not try to convince the other person to do anything they really don't want to do. We do discuss our feelings about pretty much everything. It just so happens that we agree on most of it. (Maybe that's why we got married. ;))



By the way, I'd also like to add that someone very dear to me died after contracting Covid. She was a former co-worker and the mother of a very good friend of mine.She was also battling cancer. God rest her soul.



*On a side note: my wife is a little miffed about having to wear a mask again. Since that was her primary reason, she feels like there was no point in getting it. We were talking about it earlier today and I told her that - if nothing else - the data seems to show that it will at least protect you from some Covid variants. And apparently the flu and common cold - because cases of that seem to have completely disappeared. Or maybe it's all the social distancing. Who knows?

[Buddahaid]

The primary reason common flu and colds are down is simply because of greater handwashing and mask wearing, etc., things that people usually are less than strict about normally. Even just washing your hands frequently will geatly lessen your chances of getting a cold.

[Skybird]

This belongs also to a more complete picture.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext


I think its possible that vaccinations will not forever stay to be the tool of choice.



I also read that the future developement of the pandemic msy turn covid 19 into a general child desease, say like measels.



For the time being, vaccinations seem to be the ultima ratio. But that must not mean it will always be so until the end of time. I think of it as an emergency measure for current emergency times.



Israel reports infections amongst old people who got the third booster jab.

[Jimbuna]

She's not quite cat like. She don't knock everything off the tables!
:haha:

She did that night we spent in Houston :haha:

:03:

[Jimbuna]

ONS data from community tests in England show one in every 75 people had Covid in the week to 6 August.

While positive tests "continued to be high", ONS estimates suggest "an overall decreasing trend" over the past two weeks.

England's R number is estimated at between 0.8 and 1, down slightly from 0.8 and 1.1 last week.

Nearly a third of adults aged under 30 in England haven't had a Covid jab, according to NHS England estimates.

Analysis of UK hospitals shows that, overall, more than one in 10 people in hospital with Covid caught the virus while they were there.

The competition watchdog is investigating the price of PCR Covid tests, after high costs were blamed for putting people off travel.

US drug regulators have given approval for immunocompromised Americans to get an additional Covid jab as a booster.

[Rockstar]

…it would be funny to hear her tell you to FO!
:har:

Hmm, story of my life. “Hey whats your name?’”. “FO!” :yep:

[3catcircus]

The primary reason common flu and colds are down is simply because of greater handwashing and mask wearing, etc., things that people usually are less than strict about normally. Even just washing your hands frequently will geatly lessen your chances of getting a cold.

Let's revisit this. This argument that colds and flu are down because of hand washing and masks. These actions, we were told, we're necessary to prevent transmission of COVID.

When you look at the data from this past 2020-2021 cold and flu season, yes, the numbers of cold and flu cases are vastly reduced from prior years. However, COVID cases continued to rise throughout the winter.

So - how can masks and hand washing (and social distancing) be claimed as stopping colds and flu, while at the same time, not stopping COVID?

The answer is that these actions have *never* prevented transmission of respiratory viruses that spread by aerosol. The answer is the COVID outcompeted flu and RSV through roughly end of December 2020. When you look at burdens in early 2021, you'll see that COVID cases decreased, not because of vaccines, but because rhinovirus started outcompeting COVID. As we moved into summer, rhinovirus began to be outcompeted by COVID. *ALL* respiratory viruses are sharply seasonal.

The data is all there for anyone to see. You just have to recognize that respiratory viruses with animal reservoirs can *not* be eliminated like you would with smallpox. We should do as I've been saying all along - treat it as an endemic virus.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/XYdBgpmz/119914006-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-12aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/21j5k8zQ)

[Skybird]

Common colds in kids are going steeply upwards in Germany. Probably due to a.) over-hygienics that gave the immune system no more training on other germs than Covid-19, and b.) the end of holiday season and schools opening again in first states.

It also is said that Delta harms kids more than previous strains, causing more seriosu cases amongts them. They start to see a larger percentage of kids in hospitals. Whether this is a regional phenomenon or valid for the whole nation, is not yet clear.

The WHO slowly goes on a more confronting course against China, with staff insisting that the lab origin theory is a valid scenario. China is fuming, demanding to exclusively focus on a politically commanded view of things, not an explanation meeting scientifically-medical facts and standards.

[August]

Hmm, story of my life. “Hey whats your name?’”. “FO!” :yep:

"She's so cute with that get back stare..."

[AVGWarhawk]

The primary reason common flu and colds are down is simply because of greater handwashing and mask wearing, etc., things that people usually are less than strict about normally. Even just washing your hands frequently will geatly lessen your chances of getting a cold.

And it is a good lesson for us.

[AVGWarhawk]

Let's revisit this. This argument that colds and flu are down because of hand washing and masks. These actions, we were told, we're necessary to prevent transmission of COVID.

When you look at the data from this past 2020-2021 cold and flu season, yes, the numbers of cold and flu cases are vastly reduced from prior years. However, COVID cases continued to rise throughout the winter.

So - how can masks and hand washing (and social distancing) be claimed as stopping colds and flu, while at the same time, not stopping COVID?

The answer is that these actions have *never* prevented transmission of respiratory viruses that spread by aerosol. The answer is the COVID outcompeted flu and RSV through roughly end of December 2020. When you look at burdens in early 2021, you'll see that COVID cases decreased, not because of vaccines, but because rhinovirus started outcompeting COVID. As we moved into summer, rhinovirus began to be outcompeted by COVID. *ALL* respiratory viruses are sharply seasonal.

The data is all there for anyone to see. You just have to recognize that respiratory viruses with animal reservoirs can *not* be eliminated like you would with smallpox. We should do as I've been saying all along - treat it as an endemic virus.

Even the best of hand washers gets a cold. From my understanding, COVID was much more contagious than the flu. Perhaps the reason the COVID cases increased as flu cases decreased. However, not washing one's hands as directed is still prudent advise.

[Jeff-Groves]

because rhinovirus started outcompeting COVID. As we moved into summer, rhinovirus began to be outcompeted by COVID.
So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?
:doh:
:03:

[AVGWarhawk]

So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?
:doh:
:03:

The flu "season".

[mapuc]

Friends I think you misunderstod my last post aimed to Jeff-Groves.

Someone wrote "we would not try to convince the other person to do anything they really don't want to do."

I never said you should convince your love one, but ask them why.

It's only pure interest to why some people reject the jab the reason behind it.

I understand that's up to them. So we leave it there.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

It's all good Markus,
Sometimes your with someone so long that you instinctively know the reasoning behind decisions so you never ask for details.

Now Nancy and I did talk about what I posted here last night.
She surprised me by saying She is thinking of taking the shots.
I didn't ask why! I just accepted her statement with no comments nor questions.

[3catcircus]

Even the best of hand washers gets a cold. From my understanding, COVID was much more contagious than the flu. Perhaps the reason the COVID cases increased as flu cases decreased. However, not washing one's hands as directed is still prudent advise.
It surely is prudent to wash your hands - it significantly cuts the chances of getting many cases of gastroenteritis.

The fact of the matter is that almost all respiratory viruses are *primarily* spread by aerosols. The short-range sneeze/cough route is a combination of aerosol and droplet. But, outside of that, infected people spread via aerosols that float on the air currents and have a significant hang-time. Worse, most masks (surgical, cloth) actually aerosolize exhalate.

If you can smell perfume, cigar smoke, etc. while wearing a mask, it's not protecting you from aerosols.

[3catcircus]

So maybe a Flu Shot is all one needs?
:doh:
:03:

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.

[Arlo]

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.

Had your Tetanus shot lately?

[Skybird]

Sadly, I think we've been forced into a never-ending set of boosters. It would have been better for everyone who was lower risk to have just gotten covid and developed the antibodies instead.
You can see in Africa where that leads.

Or in the French oversea territories. Martinique and Guadeloupe report incidence rates close to 2000. Reports say the health systems are collapsing, the hospitals are flooded and drowning, the ICUs full of 20-30 year old. The doctors say the siotuaiton is much wors enwo then it was during the first wave that found them without warning. Healthy, young people with no comorbidities, and they crowd and block the ICUs. Not the old and weak. The young, strong and healthy ones it is. And most of them are unvaccinated. Not even every fourth adult there has had a first jab at least. Local population holds strong anti-French sentiments over some pharma scandal twenty years ago.

A French government delegation found very strong words.

Covid 19 is not the flu. Will some people please finally dig it. Its not the flu, its not the cold.


And the antibodies - they do not stay, they fade away again. 5-6 months immunity protection, it is currently estimated. You seem to not gain lasting immunity strong enough to prevent later repeated infections. Not those who were ill, not those who were vaccinated.

[mapuc]

For the first time ever I toke one of these quick test. I tell you my mom and my elderly sister had a fight with me, because I didn't want to I just DON'T trust these test. But my mom had invited os to a restaurant and they demand either vaccine card, quick test or paper that you have had covid-19.

As expected the test was negative.

Markus

[3catcircus]

Had your Tetanus shot lately?
Funny you ask. I got bit by someone's dog recently while dropping mine off at the kennel. I got a tetanus shot. My last tetanus shot? 11 years ago. Not the same thing as an endemic seasonal respiratory virus.

[3catcircus]

You can see in Africa where that leads.

Or in the French oversea territories. Martinique and Guadeloupe report incidence rates close to 2000. Reports say the health systems are collapsing, the hospitals are flooded and drowning, the ICUs full of 20-30 year old. The doctors say the siotuaiton is much wors enwo then it was during the first wave that found them without warning. Healthy, young people with no comorbidities, and they crowd and block the ICUs. Not the old and weak. The young, strong and healthy ones it is. And most of them are unvaccinated. Not even every fourth adult there has had a first jab at least. Local population holds strong anti-French sentiments over some pharma scandal twenty years ago.

A French government delegation found very strong words.

Covid 19 is not the flu. Will some people please finally dig it. Its not the flu, its not the cold.


And the antibodies - they do not stay, they fade away again. 5-6 months immunity protection, it is currently estimated. You seem to not gain lasting immunity strong enough to prevent later repeated infections. Not those who were ill, not those who were vaccinated.

Firstly, Africa and French overseas territories are 3rd world sh!tholes where the medical care is inadequate to begin with...

Secondly we have studies showing that those who were infected have higher levels of antibodies than those who were vaccinated - and for far longer. There is strong evidence that those who recovered may have lifetime immunity, but that still need further study.

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/

[Arlo]

Funny you ask. I got bit by someone's dog recently while dropping mine off at the kennel. I got a tetanus shot. My last tetanus shot? 11 years ago. Not the same thing as an endemic seasonal respiratory virus.

Or Rabies. But, having recurrent boosters for anything is actually a blessing and not a curse. Some will probably get over their fear of needles, even. :yeah:

[Skybird]

For the first time ever I toke one of these quick test. I tell you my mom and my elderly sister had a fight with me, because I didn't want to I just DON'T trust these test. But my mom had invited os to a restaurant and they demand either vaccine card, quick test or paper that you have had covid-19.

As expected the test was negative.

Markus



Quicktests are claimed by producers to have a sensitivity of 90%, means 90% of infected people get recognised. But validation efforts of various research projects seem to show that they are in fact just half of that, 45-50%. These tests work quite reliable with people with very high virus looads (people that could turn into super spreaders due to these high loads) , but they work terribly bad with low, but still infectous, virus loads of the testing subject, and these are the vast majority. Also, these tests recognise an infeciton only much time later in its development than a PCR test.

So your mistrust is justified. I too do not give much for quick tests. Either its a - more expensive and time consuming - PCR test, or one can skip it. For politicians wanting mass tests at schools, these quick tests provide a needed alibi function only, a fig leaf.



I would stop their selling completely. A reliability of only 45% with non-super-spreader virus loads is useless.

[Skybird]

Or Rabies. But, having recurrent boosters for anything is actually a blessing and not a curse. Some will probably get over their fear of needles, even. :yeah:
Repetition of tetanus jabs is recommended every ten years. In Germany at least.

[Skybird]

Firstly, Africa and French overseas territories are 3rd world sh!tholes where the medical care is inadequate to begin with...
Thsi doe snoit nchnbage that it is not the old and ill but thwe yougn and healthy and strong formign the vast majority of ICU patients currently, andn that their hospitals are under heavier patient load than last year.



Secondly we have studies showing that those who were infected have higher levels of antibodies than those who were vaccinated - and for far longer. There is strong evidence that those who recovered may have lifetime immunity, but that still need further study.

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/This claim is still debated and not decided. Many virologists have moved away from earlier assessments and last year statements that infeciton gives life-.long immunity. The claim of strong immunity even after just mild infection also is debated and there is no consensus on it. Some scientists outright deny that it is so.

Then, mutations can - and some do - bypass existing immunity. Delta an example, I seem to recall thats the problem with Lambda as well, but I am not certain of the latter. But if vaccine-induced immunity is far less successfull against Lambda, which is established knowledge, then it is a reasonable hypothesis to assume that it does also is less prone to naturally won immunity by having been ill. At least as long as natural and vaccinated immunity do not result in two totally different molecular and cellular antibody sets being formed that behave both totally different. And I think that is not the case.

[3catcircus]

Thsi doe snoit nchnbage that it is not the old and ill but thwe yougn and healthy and strong formign the vast majority of ICU patients currently, andn that their hospitals are under heavier patient load than last year.

This claim is still debated and not decided. Many virologists have moved away from earlier assessments and last year statements that infeciton gives life-.long immunity. The claim of strong immunity even after just mild infection also is debated and there is no consensus on it. Some scientists outright deny that it is so.

Then, mutations can - and some do - bypass existing immunity. Delta an example, I seem to recall thats the problem with Lambda as well, but I am not certain of the latter. But if vaccine-induced immunity is far less successfull against Lambda, which is established knowledge, then it is a reasonable hypothesis to assume that it does also is less prone to naturally won immunity by having been ill. At least as long as natural and vaccinated immunity do not result in two totally different molecular and cellular antibody sets being formed that behave both totally different. And I think that is not the case.

You're really grasping at straws to try and be right...

It doesn't matter *what* is going on, medical care in most African nations is inadequate. They have people dying from infections that a quick dose of antibiotics would cure - of course they can't handle flu, covid, or anything else easily spread.

As to your response about the study - the article I linked to is from *3 months* ago, not last year; and I caveated it. Stop trying so hard to try and prove the rightness of your beliefs and step back and start applying critical thinking skills.

[Rockstar]

Repetition of tetanus jabs is recommended every ten years. In Germany at least.

Boosters for bacterial infection are not required here if you’ve already been dosed up as a child. I don’t know anyone who gets a tetanus booster. Though since tetanus is a bacterial infection the antibacterial vaccination is sometimes administered as a precaution if one has been wounded.

A recent paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases suggested that tetanus and diphtheria booster vaccines are not necessary for adults who have completed their childhood vaccination series. This advice aligns with the current World Health Organization (WHO) recommendations. Reason being is if antibacterial drugs are over used they eventually become ineffective.

So I’m content not to get a tetanus shot unless I really really need one. Last time I got one was in 2006 after I had cut my foot pretty bad.

[Buddahaid]

You're really grasping at straws to try and be right...
...As to your response about the study - the article I linked to is from *3 months* ago, not last year; and I caveated it. Stop trying so hard to try and prove the rightness of your beliefs and step back and start applying critical thinking skills.

Pretty much sums up how we all think of each other...

[3catcircus]

Pretty much sums up how we all think of each other...

I'm sure we all have our biases, but to simply claim that something isn't true without having actually read it, dissected it, and asked probing questions is intellectually lazy. Most people are happy to digest whatever the media tells them to believe and never stops to even think about whether or not it makes sense. That he said it wasn't proven, despite me having already caveated it by saying more study is necessary, illustrates he didn't even read the article.

I also find it rather hilariously ironic that the study discussed in the article was funded by Fauci's NIAID - and it contradicts several of Fauci's proclamations, further illustrating that he is an administrator, not a practicing immunologist (if he ever was actually a good one to begin with us another topic of discussion).

[Arlo]

Well, lookie there. Someone hates (fears) Dr. Fauci. Go figure. ;)

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/director

[August]

You're really grasping at straws to try and be right...


That's Skybird. He ain't ever been wrong, according to him.



As to your response about the study - the article I linked to is from *3 months* ago, not last year; and I caveated it. Stop trying so hard to try and prove the rightness of your beliefs and step back and start applying critical thinking skills.


From the article:


Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.
The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD (https://pathology.wustl.edu/people/ali-ellebedy-phd/), an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

I like that part. :yep:

[Skybird]

Boosters for bacterial infection are not required here if you’ve already been dosed up as a child. I don’t know anyone who gets a tetanus booster. Though since tetanus is a bacterial infection the antibacterial vaccination is sometimes administered as a precaution if one has been wounded.

A recent paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases suggested that tetanus and diphtheria booster vaccines are not necessary for adults who have completed their childhood vaccination series. This advice aligns with the current World Health Organization (WHO) recommendations. Reason being is if antibacterial drugs are over used they eventually become ineffective.

So I’m content not to get a tetanus shot unless I really really need one. Last time I got one was in 2006 after I had cut my foot pretty bad.
Over here, health ministry and its vaccination expert gremium names StIko (ständige Impfkommission) recommends all adults tp refresh jabs against Pertussis, Tetanus and Diphteria every ten years. Different to 3catcircus' rants there are deseases where you can lose over time suffiecient immunity protection and then would not fight off infection when exposition takes place. With some others, immunity stays at sufficient levels all life long.



ITS NOT THE SAME WITH JUST ANY DESEASE AND JAB.


Its also demonstrated from across all world that repeated infections with Covid 19 can and do happen. It was assumed early that these were first infecters who never really got fully cured and so did not fully recover. While this also happens, we know by no that this does explain only parts of those cases. The antibody level against cov19 wanes over time, and so it becomesless protective. It can drp below levels where you are no longer save from infection, and can drop further where you are no more safe from serious cases of infection and need hospitalization. If there are not enough antibodies remaining on patrol, the reaction of immune system and the restarting of production of need ed war material is being delayed. Thats the time virus levels can replicate again to dangerous levels. The more antibodies remain in the bloodstream, the faster the new invasion is recogni
Zed and the fight taken to the enemy while the factories produce wargoods.

Its also that mutated corona virusses may not be targetted by existing antibodies anymore. The immune system then needs to build new weapons. It either learns that by the patient being ill and surviving, or by a new jab with intel information.
I posted a study or at referred to it some weeks ago that explained what components of the immune systems army remain active aftrer an infection and serve as a living memory for IDying this latest enemy. The fewer such guardians there are, the worse early recce works. Its all about the reaction time of central command.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKZqFDuVVY0

[3catcircus]

That's Skybird. He ain't ever been wrong, according to him.






From the article:


Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.
The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD (https://pathology.wustl.edu/people/ali-ellebedy-phd/), an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

I like that part. :yep:

Yep - those of us who have a background in it understood that from the beginning. Which is also very likely why my covid case was mild - I had had a very bad cold in my teens that presented pretty much exactly like covid, with a lingering cough for almost 2 months after. My doctor declared "I don't know what it is but it's not rhinovirus." Since adenoviruses present similarly, it could have been that rather than a coronavirus. The world will never know...

[Sean C]

Well, lookie there. Someone hates (fears) Dr. Fauci. Go figure. ;)

Seems like a reasonable guy to me.


https://leakedreality.com/embed/349e537c9c4d427f2614

[Mr Quatro]

Seems like a reasonable guy to me.


https://leakedreality.com/embed/349e537c9c4d427f2614

Depends on which news network is paying extra for his views :hmmm:

He makes more than the POTUS :yep:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/y8pyP5DW/119934485-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-14aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/Sn89Qg7p)

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuY5Ia5XmRA

[AVGWarhawk]

Repetition of tetanus jabs is recommended every ten years. In Germany at least.

No different in the USA.

[AVGWarhawk]

It surely is prudent to wash your hands - it significantly cuts the chances of getting many cases of gastroenteritis.

The fact of the matter is that almost all respiratory viruses are *primarily* spread by aerosols. The short-range sneeze/cough route is a combination of aerosol and droplet. But, outside of that, infected people spread via aerosols that float on the air currents and have a significant hang-time. Worse, most masks (surgical, cloth) actually aerosolize exhalate.

If you can smell perfume, cigar smoke, etc. while wearing a mask, it's not protecting you from aerosols.

If true then the claims the wildfire smoke is carrying the virus as some media has reported.

[Skybird]

Virusses usually do not like exposition to UV, light, heat, dryness. Thats why you will not find them sitting on the surface of tree leafs in the jungle, for exmaple, or free floating surface water in lakes. But in moist caves, animals' bodies.

[AVGWarhawk]

Virusses usually do not like exposition to UV, light,

Vitamin D from the sun. I understand that vitamin D does help with getting over COVID. Zinc as well.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/50dTmcMJ/119956207-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-16aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/B8pmqV67)

[Jimbuna]

Covid vaccines: How fast is progress around the world? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56237778

[Onkel Neal]

US to recommend COVID vaccine boosters for all citizens 8 months after 2nd shot

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-to-recommend-covid-vaccine-boosters-for-all-citizens-after-8-months/

US experts are expected to recommend COVID-19 vaccine boosters for all Americans, regardless of age, eight months after they received their second dose of the shot, to ensure lasting protection against the coronavirus as the Delta variant spreads across the country.

Federal health officials have been actively looking at whether extra shots for the vaccinated would be needed as early as this fall, reviewing case numbers in the US as well as the situation in other countries such as Israel, where preliminary studies suggest the vaccine’s protection against serious illness dropped among those vaccinated in January.

An announcement on the US booster recommendation was expected as soon as this week, according to two people familiar with the matter who spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

Doses would only begin to be administered widely once the Food and Drug Administration formally approves the vaccines, rather than the emergency approval that has been in play thus far. That action is expected for the Pfizer shot in the coming weeks.

Last week, US health officials recommended boosters for some with weakened immune systems, citing their higher risk of catching the virus and evidence that the vaccines’ effectiveness waned over time.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b98qMT-RWWo

[Buddahaid]

The smaller of my two hospitals is pretty much maxed out now. I wonder what's different....

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/W3Q4QdNQ/E83-Ox0-JWUAIa-GDN.png (https://postimg.cc/G8xrDhsQ)

[Catfish]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tests positive for COVID-19

"The governor spoke Monday night at a GOP event in Collin County, later tweeting photos of him addressing a maskless crowd. Less than three hours before his diagnosis was announced Tuesday afternoon, he tweeted pictures of a meeting with guitarist Jimmie Vaughan."

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/17/texas-governor-greg-abbott-positive-covid/

Good we know he's a governor, otherwise he would be in an asylum :hmmm:

[August]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tests positive for COVID-19

"The governor spoke Monday night at a GOP event in Collin County, later tweeting photos of him addressing a maskless crowd. Less than three hours before his diagnosis was announced Tuesday afternoon, he tweeted pictures of a meeting with guitarist Jimmie Vaughan."

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/17/texas-governor-greg-abbott-positive-covid/

Good we know he's a governor, otherwise he would be in an asylum :hmmm:

I doubt your sanity far more than I doubt Abbots. You do realize that neither event could have been what infected him right?

[Catfish]

What about him infecting others when he went to this packed indoor fundraiser event, with all people there unmasked?

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rKqTU2G0AM

[Rockstar]

On the morning of 14th while at work my body was telling me something wasn’t right. I felt tired, nauseous, had a runny nose muscle aches from the neck all the way down to the lower back. I got home that after noon and I could feel the onset of a sore throat and I was utterly exhausted.

I laid down around 6pm and immediately fell asleep. I woke up at 1030pm with chills and a massive sinus headache the one right between the eyes. Tried to sleep but the headache was so bad I didn’t sleep well all night.

Then about 4:30 AM I woke up with a fever. At 7 am I went to the store to get some sinus meds. Came back home popped one of those and the headache went away. I slept like a baby til noon.

Still feel a bit under the weather and tired not much of an appetite either.

Damn Ragweed. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tests positive for COVID-19

"The governor spoke Monday night at a GOP event in Collin County, later tweeting photos of him addressing a maskless crowd. Less than three hours before his diagnosis was announced Tuesday afternoon, he tweeted pictures of a meeting with guitarist Jimmie Vaughan."

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/17/texas-governor-greg-abbott-positive-covid/

Good we know he's a governor, otherwise he would be in an asylum :hmmm:

The incubation time is not long enough for this event to be the cause of his infection. Never-the-less, large meetings without masks is not prudent.

[AVGWarhawk]

What about him infecting others when he went to this packed indoor fundraiser event, with all people there unmasked?

Definitely a cause for concern. Hopefully he was not sneezing and wiping his nose with his hands. :o

[AVGWarhawk]

I read that Abott has been vaccinated.

[mapuc]

Nothing but a thought based on our daily test that is being made.

The last few month the number of test has decreased a lot.
Reason to this is the number of vaccinated is growing.

Here's my thought
People who have been vaccinated do they think
"I do not need to test me I'm vaccinated"
Nevertheless a fully vaccinated can be infected and infect others even those who's been vaccinated.

I wonder therefore how many vaccinated is infected but doesn't know because they stopped taking test ?

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

What about him infecting others when he went to this packed indoor fundraiser event, with all people there unmasked?

Exactly. I guess he assumes they have all been vaccinated. If they haven't then it's on them.

"I test myself every day and today is the first day that I tested positive," Abbott said. "I also want you to know that I have received the COVID-19 vaccine and that may be one reason why I'm really not feeling any symptoms right now. I have no fever, no aches and pains, no other types of symptoms."

[August]

What about him infecting others when he went to this packed indoor fundraiser event, with all people there unmasked?

What about him being already vaccinated against the coof and therefore following the CDC's guidelines of that moment?

[Arlo]

Exactly. I guess he assumes they have all been vaccinated. If they haven't then it's on them.

Ahhhh, Richards. :shucks:

[Skybird]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9



Our data provide clear evidence that the epithelial and immune cells of the upper airways (nose) of children are pre-activated and primed for virus sensing. This is likely a general feature of the children’s mucosal immune response, but of particular relevance for SARS-CoV-2. Very recently, scRNA-seq of fibroblasts infected with Chikungunya virus showed an extremely narrow window of opportunity for the cells to express IFNs before viral protein production shuts off the antiviral system22 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR22). This likely also explains the differences between SARS-CoV-2 and other respiratory viruses including respiratory syncytial virus, influenza A virus or SARS-CoV in terms of the induced host response. SARS-CoV-2 is characterized by extensive intracellular replication and a remarkable absence of IFN production and secretion. On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 is highly sensitive to treatment with IFNs before or after infection, as shown in lung epithelial cells, even more so than SARS-CoV20 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR20),23 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR23). Primed virus sensing and a pre-activated innate immune response in children leads to efficient early production of IFNs in the infected airways, likely mediating substantial antiviral effects mirroring those observed in vitro in IFN-(pre)treated cells. Ultimately, this may lead to reduced virus replication and faster clearance in children. In fact, several studies already showed that children are much quicker in eliminating SARS-CoV-2 compared to adults, consistent with the concept that they shut down viral replication earlier24 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR24),25 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR25),26 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR26),27 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-01037-9#ref-CR27). For other respiratory viruses, such as respiratory syncytial virus and influenza A virus, that more efficiently induce an IFN response by themselves, a pre-activated innate immune response may be less relevant. The enhanced innate antiviral capacity in children together with the high IFN sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 may explain why children are better able to control early-stage infection as compared to adults and therefore have a lower risk of developing severe COVID-19.

[AVGWarhawk]

Exactly. I guess he assumes they have all been vaccinated. If they haven't then it's on them.

The assumption can not be made any longer. The new variant is a new ballgame.

[Arlo]

The assumption can not be made any longer. The new variant is a new ballgame.

Vaccination has actually proven to reduce the severity in 'the new ballgame.' I don't buy bad excuses. :shucks:

[AVGWarhawk]

Vaccination has actually proven to reduce the severity in 'the new ballgame.' I don't buy bad excuses. :shucks:

They also have proven to not help and patient dies. I don't buy half of the story.

[Arlo]

They also have proven to not help and patient dies. I don't buy half of the story.

Oh my G_d! You're right! When there's a small percentage that show no improvement ... or die,even ... then we should chuck modern medicine in the can!

You (and some others on the forum) don't seem to get how statistics actually work what with the 'I've got a 99% .... *cough* .... chance ... *cough* ... I'll take my chances ... *cough* .... somebody get me an ambulance! I don't care if it takes up a pediatric cancer kid's bed!' :yeah:

[Rockstar]

The smaller of my two hospitals is pretty much maxed out now. I wonder what's different....

Are they public or private hospitals? I read private hospitals were more likely to shut themselves off if the nearby hospital was public, suggesting they're avoiding accepting Medicaid and uninsured patients.

That and it’s summer more people out and about infecting each other cooties.

[mapuc]

Oh my G_d! You're right! When there's a small percentage that show no improvement ... or die,even ... then we should chuck modern medicine in the can!

You (and some others on the forum) don't seem to get how statistics actually work what with the 'I've got a 99% .... *cough* .... chance ... *cough* ... I'll take my chances ... *cough* .... somebody get me an ambulance! I don't care if it takes up a pediatric cancer kid's bed!' :yeah:


I still say people shall have the freedom to decide vaccine or no vaccine.
BUT they shall show responsibility towards others and
They shall not complain if they get infected.

Markus

[Arlo]

I still say people shall have the freedom to decide vaccine or no vaccine.
BUT they shall show responsibility towards others and
They shall not complain if they get infected.

Markus

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.53b7dc27924ca3c8b917a0379d9b9a4e&pid=1.7&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F53b 7dc27924ca3c8b917a0379d9b9a4e%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid %3D8704509&ehk=aY%2B%2BqNQx1kH9VVwohSQVcQ

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZzaVKmOs4

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/Zq7K13G5/120020478-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-18aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/f3dNd3WG)

[August]

Oh my G_d! You're right! When there's a small percentage that show no improvement ... or die,even ... then we should chuck modern medicine in the can!

You (and some others on the forum) don't seem to get how statistics actually work what with the 'I've got a 99% .... *cough* .... chance ... *cough* ... I'll take my chances ... *cough* .... somebody get me an ambulance! I don't care if it takes up a pediatric cancer kid's bed!' :yeah:


Yeah because they always mixing pediatric cancer patients and covid patients in the same ward. It's just musical hospital beds all the time according to whatever passes for reality to you.

[Arlo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF2I7MjDhwI

[3catcircus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF2I7MjDhwI

https://covid-texas.csullender.com/

You'll see only 42% of ICU beds and only 21% of hospital beds are for COVID patients.

Sensationalist much?

[Arlo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHaY79DnGFw

[AVGWarhawk]

From the Gov of MD(Hogan) at today's conference:

"Hospitalizations are 70% below peak and below all pandemic triggers"

"We have transitioned from state of emergency to a long term public health concern"

"Also pushing for full FDA approval on the vaccines"

"Clearly the science shows the vaccines are effective, yet full approval is the biggest hurdle from getting the vaccine"

I live in the state of MD. Realize not all are in a position to catch COVID. Follow the guidelines that worked before the vaccine. Still follow them even if vaccinated.

[Arlo]

Yeah because they always mixing pediatric cancer patients and covid patients in the same ward. It's just musical hospital beds all the time according to whatever passes for reality to you.

ICU is ICU. That's reality. :up:

[3catcircus]

ICU is ICU. That's reality. :up:

ICUs run 85+% full all the time unless the hospital likes losing money.

You ignored the link I provided showing live data from Texas that clearly shows that the media is lying on e again - hospitals there are *not* in a state of being overwhelmed, with the exception of a regional hospital that serves multiple rural areas - and such hospitals would be overwhelmed by a multi-car pileup on a good day, anyway. Oh, and look at COVID deaths, if nothing else - they're essentially zero through most of the summer and current incomplete data is nowhere near the expected seasonal peak last year...

[mapuc]

ICUs run 85+% full all the time unless the hospital likes losing money.

You ignored the link I provided showing live data from Texas that clearly shows that the media is lying I've again - hospitals there are *not* in a state of being overwhelmed, with the exception of a regional hospital that serves multiple rural areas - and such hospitals would be overwhelmed by a multi-car pileup on a good day, anyway.

It also depends on which day it is and which month it is.

Monday is the quiet day on an ICU
While Friday and Saturday is the busiest

Then there is the months where an ICU are busiest and if I remember correctly it is June, July Aug, Dec. and Jan.

Markus

[Arlo]

ICUs run 85+% full all the time unless the hospital likes losing money.

You ignored the link I provided showing live data from Texas that clearly shows that the media is lying on e again - hospitals there are *not* in a state of being overwhelmed, with the exception of a regional hospital that serves multiple rural areas - and such hospitals would be overwhelmed by a multi-car pileup on a good day, anyway. Oh, and look at COVID deaths, if nothing else - they're essentially zero through most of the summer and current incomplete data is nowhere near the expected seasonal peak last year...

I didn't ignore anything. I just gave it the credence it actually deserved, given your own ignoring of what trend it is actually indicating. :shucks:

[Skybird]

Doc Puts His Foot Down on the Unvaccinated


https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94103


https://assets.medpagetoday.net/media/images/94xxx/94103.jpg

[August]

Pure political posturing. Waiting for months to put it into effect months is kinda like installing anti-torpedo nets at Pearl Harbor on December 8th 1941. If there was a real concern it would be effective immediately not after the Delta surge has expended itself.

[Rockstar]

Why won’t the US medical establishment “believe women”? Covid-19 vaccines do not warn about menstrual disruption

MARCIE SMITH PARENTI·AUGUST 13, 2021

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/08/13/cdc-fda-women-covid-19-vaccines-menstrual-disruption/

… Spare a thought for the tens of thousands of women undergoing expensive, invasive fertility treatments like egg retrieval and in vitro fertilization. According to Pew Research, about one third of all American women will undergo fertility treatment at some point. Most health insurance plans do not cover these difficult procedures, so many women pay out-of-pocket, sometimes dropping tens of thousands of dollars. Surely such female medical consumers have a right to know if an mRNA vaccine can trigger, for example, spontaneous prolonged bleeding that disrupts their reproductive efforts.

Covid-19 is a real and potentially lethal virus. I do not need to be convinced of this. And I understand that any healthy society has the right to protect itself, and relatedly, to regulate its members. I have empathy for public officials charged with weighing competing interests and having to make difficult calls in navigating this crisis. Even more, I empathize with American families doing their very best to protect themselves, their loved ones, and their communities, often in the face of profound and disorienting loss.

But it is also true that members of any healthy society have the right to demand that such regulations be based on trustworthy evidence and moral reason; and where such regulations implicate fundamental liberties, to demand that they are no more invasive than absolutely necessary.

The severity of COVID-19 does not negate women’s need for a rigorous and trustworthy scientific appraisal of the benefits and risks they face if they accept a COVID-19 vaccine.

Women deserve an immediate and thorough investigation into reports of post-vaccine menstrual dysregulation, clear and honest explanations of the findings, medical guidance for restoring menstrual health, restitution where necessary, a redoubled commitment to the principle of informed consent moving forward, and (like everyone else) access to reasonable, clearly-communicated, non-punitive accommodations if they decline a COVID-19 vaccine at this time.

Instead, women concerned about the health effects of Covid-19 vaccines have been subjected to 1950’s-style dismissals and demonization in blatantly sexist terms that stand at odds with #MeToo era calls to “believe women.”

They now face the prospect of being barred from their educational institutions, prohibited from entering public accommodations, and losing their jobs unless they “choose” a medical therapy that has not even been fully approved by the Food & Drug Administration, which has left more than an insignificant number of their friends and loved ones struggling, alone, with surprise menstrual side effects, against which pharmaceutical industries enjoy a complete, multi-layered liability shield.

From a purely bioethical standpoint, this situation should be enough to give us pause, from those concerned with women’s health; to those concerned about fundamental civil liberties like the right to privacy, equal protection, free association, and free speech; to those concerned about fighting “vaccine hesitancy”; to those concerned about the continued (yet threatened) legitimacy of foundational U.S. institutions. But it seems many in our political class only care about or understand the DC horse race. So let us put it in those terms: this issue will show up in 2022.

Zero published studies on the effects of Covid vaccines on women’s reproductive systems

By early spring 2021, anecdotal testimonies of sudden, early, disturbingly prolonged, abruptly absent, extremely painful, or unusually heavy and clot-filled menstrual cycles post-Covid 19 vaccination were circulating on social media. By May 17th, the UK’s Medicines & Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency had received 4,000 reports of post-vaccine menstruation disruption. By early July, that agency had received 13,000 such reports. Similar reports emerged from other countries like Canada and India.

In the U.S., adverse reactions to vaccines are tracked by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), which was created in 1987 and is co-managed by the FDA and the CDC. As of July 26, VAERS showed many thousands of reports of various menstruation disorders, most related to mRNA Covid-19 vaccines.

There had been 1,624 reports of “menstruation irregular” logged; 1,352 reports of “menstrual disorder”; 563 reports of “menstruation delayed”; 803 reports of “vaginal hemorrhaging”; 239 reports of “postmenopausal hemorrhage”; 95 reports of “hemorrhage urinary tract”; 57 reports of “abnormal uterine bleeding”; and 41 reports of “hemorrhage in pregnancy.” Even more seriously, there were 691 reports of “abortion spontaneous”; 88 reports of “fetal death”; and 25 reports of “stillbirth.” The CDC claims rates of miscarriage by vaccinated women is within the normal range.

[Skybird]

There may have been 1600+ reports on such cases. Fine.

There also have been 38+ million known corona cases in the US, 640+ thousand deaths, there has been a US health system on the brink of total collapse and hospitals overcrowded with patients and stocks out of supply, and any of the many Covid informations sites tell me that right now while I type this, yesterday or today, there are 40+ thousand US citizens seriously enough ill from Covid that they have to stay in hospital.

The pandemic did not last since just yesterday or today, but since late January last year or so. 500-600 days.

You drive a car? You fasten the seatbelt. Over here at least, it even is mandatory, and the state violates precious freedom rights by enforcing it and not asking whether drivers want that or not. Does not protect you from having accidents, you are still free to even intentionally drive against a wall. But it prevents you from flying through the windshield in case you have that accident, wanted or not, your fault or the others. Bad news is, you can still break your ribs or collarbone. But isnt that better than to crack open your head, break your neck and cut your arteries and bleed to death?


Fasten seatbelts. Get a jab.

[Arlo]

https://i.imgur.com/XcnJqi6.png

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCRj3wygulc

[Jimbuna]

More than 125,000 16 and 17-year-olds in England have had a Covid vaccine in the two weeks since the NHS was given the green light to offer them a jab.

One of the scientists advising the government on fighting the Covid pandemic says a decision on a booster jab programme is imminent.

It has yet to be decided who would be the first to get a third jab but a meeting is being held this morning.

Having two Covid vaccine doses remains the best way to protect against the Delta variant, a large study concludes.

The number of patients in hospital with Covid is at its highest level in five months, with 6,321 in the latest count taken earlier this week.

A first Covid case has been detected in the Tokyo Paralympics village, just days before the Games are due to start.

Iran’s official death toll from Covid-19 has passed 100,000, as the Middle East’s worst-hit country struggles with a fifth wave of infections.

China is today celebrating that it has carried out more than 1.9 billion vaccinations.

This equates to about two thirds of its 1.4 billion population having received two doses.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/hGXL6Yg5/120032274-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-19aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/JyWHBPsN)

[AVGWarhawk]

Doc Puts His Foot Down on the Unvaccinated


https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94103


https://assets.medpagetoday.net/media/images/94xxx/94103.jpg

The Hippocratic Oath does not mean much to this guy. Best of luck in your future practice.

[Arlo]

The Hippocratic Oath does not mean much to this guy. Best of luck in your future practice.

Pretty sure it means a lot to him. Protecting other patients and staff from what could have otherwise been easily mitigated vectors certainly falls under such. I'm sure his practice is secure.

[AVGWarhawk]

Pretty sure it means a lot to him. Protecting other patients and staff from what could have otherwise been easily mitigated vectors certainly falls under such. I'm sure his practice is secure.

I'm glad you have deciphered one of the oldest binding documents in history. :doh:

[Arlo]

I'm glad you have deciphered one of the oldest binding documents in history. :doh:

It was deciphered long ago. Here, let me help you.

https://www.medicinenet.com/hippocratic_oath/definition.htm

"I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure."

[Arlo]

https://external-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQGwacDSOMSnbd4c&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.npr.org%2Fassets%2Fimg%2F2 021%2F08%2F19%2Fgettyimages-1333477851_wide-1ed9bf35564c0294d2d46133aa0397524ec47f53.jpg%3Fs%3 D1400&cfs=1&ext=jpg&_nc_oe=6e84a&ccb=3-5&_nc_hash=AQGpnY6kpaORmECE

Alabama hospitals have run out of ICU beds. ​
"This could've been prevented," the president of Alabama's hospital association said, citing data that shows only 12% of patients in the state's hospitals were fully vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/19/1029260134/alabama-hospitals-icu-beds?utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1kN1mbPFHGe3l_j1mcXwyufTbQ4x3y8rEoUf_aM EVwD83h3-qUDjWSZIA

[CheckSix]

There may have been 1600+ reports on such cases. Fine.


There are actually over 30,000 reported cases in the UK alone, the real number will be far greater.

Dr. Robert Malone who created the messenger RNA vaccine has stated that no one should take these injections. Ever.
His voice has been suppressed.

Those that choose to ignore the mounting evidence will not evade the consequences so easily.

[August]

The Hippocratic Oath does not mean much to this guy. Best of luck in your future practice.


It also doesn't make much sense given that it doesn't take effect for well over a month. If it's such a real problem now then what justifies the long wait?

[Skybird]

The Hippocratic Oath does not mean much to this guy. Best of luck in your future practice.
It means a very lot to him. Jab now. 4-5 weeks pause. Second half of Septembre. Second jab. 2 more weeks until full vaccination effect: around 1st week of Octobre. Timetable matches his announcement, more or less.

The vaccination increases his patients' probability to not become seriously ill, he does not support them any longer to harm themselves, he discourages them from doing so. Sideffect is, as Arlo said, he protects himself and his staff as well. But that is the sideffect, he said it loud and clear he does not want any longer to see people dying a miserable death.

If you call that a violation of the hypocratic oath, than I call that pure cynism from your side.

[Arlo]

Huh.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

[Arlo]

It also doesn't make much sense given that it doesn't take effect for well over a month. If it's such a real problem now then what justifies the long wait?

A closed office, reopening in October could be the case. It happens a lot, actually.

[mapuc]

Some thoughts on the picture postede by Arlo

The vaccine was emergency approved
It went through two out of three stages when it got this emergency approval. However the number of volunteers in the second phase was a lot higher than usual
Phase three is an ongoing process-The scientist is monitoring people who got the vaccine to see if there's any longterm side effect.
This may take a couple of year more before they can say for sure that the medicine is safe.

Markus

[Arlo]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe

"All three vaccines authorized for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have been thoroughly tested and found to be safe and effective in preventing severe COVID-19. They continue to undergo continuous and intense safety monitoring."

[mapuc]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe

" They continue to undergo continuous and intense safety monitoring."

And that's phase three

I follow what they tells us in the news here in Denmark and in Sweden.

Markus

[August]

Well the good news is that there are plenty of doctors who don't abide with such foolishness so any of his patients that don't want to pander to it can always go elsewhere. I've had both the shot and the disease and if he were my doctor i'd drop him in a minute.

Betcha he'll still make everyone wear masks when they come in the office, even if they are vaccinated.

[August]

And that's phase three

I follow what they tells us in the news here in Denmark and in Sweden.

Markus


Makes you wonder what the value of continuous and intense safety monitoring really is when they have already given it to everyone. What will they say if this intense monitoring detects something? "Oh sorry don't take that drug we made you take months ago"?


Well thats just too late for how many millions?

[Arlo]

Well the good news is that there are plenty of doctors who don't abide with such foolishness so any of his patients that don't want to pander to it can always go elsewhere. I've had both the shot and the disease and if he were my doctor i'd drop him in a minute.

Betcha he'll still make everyone wear masks when they come in the office, even if they are vaccinated.

I'm sure that losing you as a patient would be devastating. :03:

[CheckSix]

For those that care, from 35 mins. Dr. Malone's opinion:

https://rumble.com/vl0zpf-dr.-robert-malone-the-liberty-forum-8-10-2021.html

[Arlo]

"Malone received criticism for propagating COVID-19 misinformation, including making unsupported claims about the alleged toxicity of spike proteins generated by some COVID-19 vaccines; using interviews on mass media to popularize self-medication with ivermectin; and tweeting a study by others questioning vaccine safety that was later retracted. He said LinkedIn suspended his account over what he claimed were posts he had made questioning the efficacy of some COVID-19 vaccines. Malone has also claimed that the Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines could worsen COVID-19 infections."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Malone

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7FKlYKVUAAMNMZ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

"Debunking another myth, the mRNA vaccines didn't just suddenly appear in 2020 for covid-19. Many had been tested years previously for other viruses; status as of 4 years ago in this Table, and shown to be safe ."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7GFTdZUUAIBbCU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

"On a related matter, Dr. Malone, who asserts he is "the inventor of mRNA vaccines" and actively cultivates vaccine skepticism, is not, and has admitted that fact: https://logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd
Drs @kkariko and @WeissmanLab are credited with the seminal work that led to mRNA vaccines"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Topol

[mapuc]

From start Denmark had three type of vaccine number four had been ordered.

Now Denmark har only two type vaccine. Astra Zeneca and Johnson&Johnson has been removed due to dead people who got Astra Zeneca.

Astra Zeneca went through huge number of testers but nevertheless it isn't that safe after all.

In Sweden they continue to give this vaccine to people above 60 years old.
The risk getting blood clots is lower in people above 60 than below. But even here people suffer from blood clots.

I do not have the number of vaccinated versus blood clots and death among Swedish citizens above 60 years of age

The question is would this have been discovered in a phase three ?

Edit
This type of blood clots they got from the AZ vaccine is very very rare, something with 1 out of 1 or was it 10 million get this type of blood clots.
Even Norway has removed it from their vaccination program-I think it was 3-5 people who died from getting this vaccine and 3-4 in Denmark.
End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

No, Markus, the only questions were those for how much time we had, and what alternatives we had.

[August]

I'm sure that losing you as a patient would be devastating. :03:


Heck yeah it would. I pay on time, show up for appointments, follow the doctors orders and I treat her staff with respect. The perfect patient, it always sucks to loose folks like me. How about you?

[Arlo]

Heck yeah it would. I pay on time, show up for appointments, follow the doctors orders and I treat her staff with respect. The perfect patient, it always sucks to loose folks like me. How about you?

Well I give all that, am vaccinated and wear a mask without a single complaint. :) Still, various offices and clinics are suffering closing periods ... due to Covid. Bet they all wish everyone would practice pandemic procedures to keep medical support available in a constant and timely manner.

[Skybird]

A new study from the UK, comparing 2.6 million pre-Delta patients with 800 thousand Delta patients, strongly supports findings of earlier studies from July from Singapore and the US before, that is that the vaccines seem to help not to reduce the infectousness of vaccinated people who caught the Delta strain. However, while as long as they are infectous they are of more or less the same danger to others like unvaccinated people, the likelihood of forming serious, severe symptoms themselves is dramatically reduced, and also, since they fight down the infection quicker than unvaccinated, they tend to be infectous for others for several days less, that way reducing the window of risk for others.

https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf

Forget herd immunity, if you still believed in that. Since Delta at the latest, that is just an illusion.

These findings are probably the reason why one fo Germany's leading virologist and advisor to the federal government, Drosten, has changed the song of vaccination from protecting the others from oneself, to a new tune of vaccination to protect yourself against hospitalization. The focus is away from the altruistic argument, and towards self-defence.

Delta most likely will infect you sooner or later, it most likely will find everybody over the coming months. Start getting those two jabs. After the first shot you still will need 7-8 weeks to get the full protective effect your immune system is still capable of at your given age, so why wasting time? With ages 60-70 and higher, your immune system is capable of around just 25-30% of its former combat powers when you were young, so the older amongst us already are weaker in these regards anyway.

Wear masks.


And boost your Vitamine D, Magnesium and K2 levels, Zinc, Vitamine C, Selenium.

[Jimbuna]

Covid vaccine: How many people in the UK have been vaccinated so far?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsq9C-p7rwU

[August]

Well I give all that, am vaccinated and wear a mask without a single complaint. :) Still, various offices and clinics are suffering closing periods ... due to Covid. Bet they all wish everyone would practice pandemic procedures to keep medical support available in a constant and timely manner.

Well be that as it may the point is if a doctor wants to play the authoritarian game then he can expect to pay a price for it in lost patients and it won't just be the unvaccinated.
Besides the doctor in that picture looks like a jerk. I'll bet his bedside manner is atrocious.

[mapuc]

At noon my mom was watching tv, when she suddenly couldn't breath(getting air)
She pressed on a button she has and a nurse came after a few minutes.
The nurse called an ambulance.
The crew feared my mom had Covid-19 despite negative in every test she has taken where the last she toke was Thursday 12 aug.

At the hospital they toke a blood sample and it wasn't Covid-19.

She has water in her lungs and her oxygenation is very low.

So now she's in ICU with an oxygen mask.

Tell you my heart made a jump when my sister called me.

Markus

[Arlo]

Well be that as it may the point is if a doctor wants to play the authoritarian game then he can expect to pay a price for it in lost patients and it won't just be the unvaccinated.
Besides the doctor in that picture looks like a jerk. I'll bet his bedside manner is atrocious.

Keep basing all your decision making on presumption and you'll never go wrong.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/pTb2mjgk/120094475-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-20aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/sBmF8MfZ)

[Skybird]

At noon my mom was watching tv, when she suddenly couldn't breath(getting air)
She pressed on a button she has and a nurse came after a few minutes.
The nurse called an ambulance.
The crew feared my mom had Covid-19 despite negative in every test she has taken where the last she toke was Thursday 12 aug.

At the hospital they toke a blood sample and it wasn't Covid-19.

She has water in her lungs and her oxygenation is very low.

So now she's in ICU with an oxygen mask.

Tell you my heart made a jump when my sister called me.

Markus
Understandable. I wish you well. :yeah:

[Arlo]

At noon my mom was watching tv, when she suddenly couldn't breath(getting air)
She pressed on a button she has and a nurse came after a few minutes.
The nurse called an ambulance.
The crew feared my mom had Covid-19 despite negative in every test she has taken where the last she toke was Thursday 12 aug.

At the hospital they toke a blood sample and it wasn't Covid-19.

She has water in her lungs and her oxygenation is very low.

So now she's in ICU with an oxygen mask.

Tell you my heart made a jump when my sister called me.

Markus

May your mother recover fully from her pneumonia.

[mapuc]

Thank you my friends.

Water in her lungs could could be due to her heart problems.

Guess they will make some changes in her medicine she takes for this.

But I'm glad it wasn't covid-19.

Markus

[Skybird]

Health authorities in the UK say it is proven by trackdown that the football final in full Wembley stadium was bought at the cost of verified 3000+ additional infections. With mortality rate generally and without further discrimnination being in the range from 0.3 to 1.5% in 2020 and 2021, this would mean a death toll between 10 and 45 caused by the event, so that it easily qualifies as the most murderous football final ever.

[Catfish]

@Mapuc, wishing your mom that she gets well soon :yep:

[mapuc]

@Mapuc, wishing your mom that she gets well soon :yep:

Thank you Catfish
Maybe it is pneumonia as Arlo wrote. To be sure I made a search and one of the reason beside pneumonia was heart problems which my mom has.

She will be home in no time.

Markus

[August]

Keep basing all your decision making on presumption and you'll never go wrong.


Says the current forum king of presumption. That's all you've done ever since you resurrected that ancient account.

[August]

Thank you Catfish
Maybe it is pneumonia as Arlo wrote. To be sure I made a search and one of the reason beside pneumonia was heart problems which my mom has.

She will be home in no time.

Markus


I'm glad to read about your mom Markus.

[Arlo]

Says the current forum king of presumption. That's all you've done ever since you resurrected that ancient account.

C'mon, tell me more about what you 'know' about that doctor. :)

[August]

C'mon, tell me more about what you 'know' about that doctor. :)


Why?

[Arlo]

Why?

Why not? You've certainly not run out of imagination ... have you? ;)

[August]

Why not? You've certainly not run out of imagination ... have you? ;)


No I lack only the motivation.

[Arlo]

No I lack only the motivation.

Demotivation might negatively impact your post count, guv. Looks like my discovery of your favorite thread might be beneficial to you. After all, it's pandemic season. ;)

https://media4.giphy.com/media/eunDUhLbOz1vEZfFXl/giphy.gif

[Skybird]

Israeli data: How can efficacy vs. severe disease be strong when 60% of hospitalized are vaccinated?

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

[Jimbuna]

Covid: Professor Jonathan Van-Tam answers your questions

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-58020184

[August]

Demotivation might negatively impact your post count, guv. Looks like my discovery of your favorite thread might be beneficial to you. After all, it's pandemic season. ;)


I never cared about such childish things like post counts bub. Is this an attempt to divert attention from your miraculous return from 2003? You probably shouldn't bring up things like post counts... :03:

[Arlo]

I never cared about such childish things like post counts bub. Is this an attempt to divert attention from your miraculous return from 2003? :03:

You have an overly simplified viewpoint on 'miracles.' Before long you might offer in public your presumptions on who and/or what I am based on such. It will likely amuse. :03:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20DxL8KhvgA

[Skybird]

"probably way less than one percent."

Well. Bullseye.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/conservative-talk-show-host-phil-valentine-dies-covid-19/index.html

[mapuc]

:har::har::har:

Mississippi health officials are warning residents not to take an anti-parasitic drug -- in most cases, a formulation purchased at livestock supply centers -- to treat or prevent Covid-19.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/mississippi-poison-control-covid-livestock-drug/index.html

Markus

[Skybird]

On Molnupiravir.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41594-021-00651-0

[Catfish]

:har::har::har:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/mississippi-poison-control-covid-livestock-drug/index.html
Markus

Does the following answer your question in this post (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2764142&postcount=2044) about Fox News' "trustworthiness"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_FR7lJLWcA

[Rockstar]

It is important to note that the hypothesis that ivermectin might have a prophylactic effect against SARS-CoV-2 is merely based on a rather strong correlation. On the other hand, this correlation has grown increasingly stronger in the worldwide data set earlier this year and then been independently replicated within the African data set later in the summer. Both remain highly significant, suggesting that there may be a causal connection, which is also suggested by other recent findings reported in literature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698683/


The real problem is the lack of any rational discussion about alternative treatments and citizens increasing distrust of media and government.

[3catcircus]

It is important to note that the hypothesis that ivermectin might have a prophylactic effect against SARS-CoV-2 is merely based on a rather strong correlation. On the other hand, this correlation has grown increasingly stronger in the worldwide data set earlier this year and then been independently replicated within the African data set later in the summer. Both remain highly significant, suggesting that there may be a causal connection, which is also suggested by other recent findings reported in literature.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698683/


The real problem is the lack of any rational discussion about alternative treatments and citizens increasing distrust of media and government.

That, and not understanding that a formulation for sheep dip isn't the same as the formulation for internal use...

Same reason you had morons take aquarium cleaner instead of HCQ pills...

[August]

That, and not understanding that a formulation for sheep dip isn't the same as the formulation for internal use...

Same reason you had morons take aquarium cleaner instead of HCQ pills...

Or inject silicone sealant into their buttocks instead of having silicone implants surgically installed,..... or for wanting a butt enhancement in the first place I guess.

[AVGWarhawk]

At noon my mom was watching tv, when she suddenly couldn't breath(getting air)
She pressed on a button she has and a nurse came after a few minutes.
The nurse called an ambulance.
The crew feared my mom had Covid-19 despite negative in every test she has taken where the last she toke was Thursday 12 aug.

At the hospital they toke a blood sample and it wasn't Covid-19.

She has water in her lungs and her oxygenation is very low.

So now she's in ICU with an oxygen mask.

Tell you my heart made a jump when my sister called me.

Markus

Hoping for good reports and complete recovery!!

[AVGWarhawk]

:har::har::har:



https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/mississippi-poison-control-covid-livestock-drug/index.html

Markus

Won't be long before it is announced that Trump recommended livestock parasite drugs for COVID. :doh:

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/3RbYqZ58/120221329-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-23aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/dkdbkrVp)

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUMkXjqkd_U

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUMhItD3TkY

[Skybird]

Biontech-Pfizer gets full US approval for their vaccine. Its now "official".

[mapuc]

Hoping for good reports and complete recovery!!

Thank you.
Had a chat with my little sister earlier today
For some reason my moms blood has difficulty to absorb oxygen. She may come home this Wednesday, but then it will be with these things in her nose and a bottle with oxygen she has to carry around for the rest of her life.

Edit
Misunderstod my sister. At home they will install oxygen so my mom can connect her hose to her thing in her nose. There will be connection points several place in her care home.
End edit

Back to Corona discussion

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Biontech-Pfizer gets full US approval for their vaccine. Its now "official".

So is the flu shot. It does not change many minds. I don't believe FDA approval will amount to much mind changing. Not to mention the "hurry up and get it done" does not sit well with many.

[Skybird]

Thank you.
Had a chat with my little sister earlier today
For some reason my moms blood has difficulty to absorb oxygen. She may come home this Wednesday, but then it will be with these things in her nose and a bottle with oxygen she has to carry around for the rest of her life.

Edit
Misunderstod my sister. At home they will install oxygen so my mom can connect her hose to her thing in her nose. There will be connection points several place in her care home.
End edit

Back to Corona discussion

Markus
Must be difficult for you to see these things taking place and being done. But you see, we all get old and weak in life. Thats how things go.

When I was a young boy, my school class went on vacation at a facilitiy for school classes at the North Sea, and I happend to have had birthday during those 12 days, I loved the time and felt heavy about that we had to leave soon, and the director, a friendly man who really put his heart into his job and red my sentiments like an open book, came over, gifted me a golden sticker needle and a postcard with a nice hand-written verse about past days: "Dont cry that they are over - smile instead that they have been."

Thats a human's life, you know. Best wishes.

[mapuc]

Must be difficult for you to see these things taking place and being done. But you see, we all get old and weak in life. Thats how things go.

When I was a young boy, my school class went on vacation at a facilitiy for school classes at the North Sea, and I happend to have had birthday during those 12 days, I loved the time and felt heavy about that we had to leave soon, and the director, a friendly man who really put his heart into his job and red my sentiments like an open book, came over, gifted me a golden sticker needle and a postcard with a nice hand-written verse about past days: "Dont cry that they are over - smile instead that they have been."

Thats a human's life, you know. Best wishes.

Thank you Skybird. You right
Remember how it has been during my life and my mom.
You are also right we get older and weaker.
My moms condition went downhill the last 10 years where the last 5 was really downhill. She's 81 years old.

Markus

[Skybird]

The astonishingly long history of vaccination certificates.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/700-jahre-gesundheits-atteste-die-erstaunlich-lange-geschichte-des-impfpasses-a-dafcb507-2451-4f55-9148-c678e54dbae1

[Jimbuna]

So is the flu shot. It does not change many minds. I don't believe FDA approval will amount to much mind changing. Not to mention the "hurry up and get it done" does not sit well with many.

The UK has ordered 35 million more doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, which will be delivered in the second half of 2022.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58307215

[Arlo]

New Evidence Points To Antibodies As A Reliable Indicator Of Vaccine Protection

"When Dr. Anthony Fauci spoke recently at a White House briefing about the need for COVID-19 booster shots, buried in his slideshow of charts and data points was a little-noticed scientific paper that offers evidence for a reliable way to predict how much protection a COVID-19 vaccine offers.

The study appeared on a preprint server earlier this month without much fanfare, but many interested in the future of COVID-19 vaccines had been eagerly awaiting the results.

The researchers were looking for markers in vaccinated patients' blood that would indicate protection against COVID-19, what's known as "correlates of immunity." What the team of scientists found were neutralizing antibodies — proteins made by the immune system that are known to disarm the coronavirus."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/23/1029827996/new-evidence-points-to-antibodies-as-a-reliable-indicator-of-vaccine-protection?utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1gnlVRbyQwYh1ecxEK4YNcuo96IrqMes3hcZpYt kXEEMN4UFdlm_t76tk

[Aktungbby]

The UK has ordered 35 million more doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, which will be delivered in the second half of 2022.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58307215Even more importantly: http://us7lb-cdn.newsmemory.com/eebrowser/ipad/html5.check.21030914/ajax-request.php?val=Image_1.jpg&action=loadImage&type=Image&pSetup=wallstreetjournal&issue=20210824&crc=wsj_20210824_a009_p2jw236000_2_a00900_1_______ _ns2021_w-or9.pdf.0&edition=The%20Wall%20Street%20Journal&mtime=53183520&paperImage=wallstreetjournal The Coldstream Guards have resumed their cahanging of the guard duties after 18 months!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knFLwOnoo0M

[Skybird]

Decisions come at a cost.


https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/pregnant-nurse-dies-covid-19-leaving-husband-daughter/story?id=79621407&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOtvpk9rZLs

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/BZktDfpb/120233071-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-24aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/Hj0pDKf1)

[Skybird]

Oooops, no good news. Though not really unexpected.



https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-bourla-covid-19-vaccine-resistant-variant-likely-emerge

[AVGWarhawk]

Oooops, no good news. Though not really unexpected.



https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-bourla-covid-19-vaccine-resistant-variant-likely-emerge

And he is smiling all the way to the bank. So, are we to take vaccine after vaccine after vaccine? More boosters? :doh:

[Rockstar]

And he is smiling all the way to the bank. So, are we to take vaccine after vaccine after vaccine? More boosters? :doh:

Those that manufacture the stuff would really like that.

[Arlo]

It's almost as if some of you weren't around for Polio boosters. :shucks:

[AVGWarhawk]

Those that manufacture the stuff would really like that.

Yes they would.

[Rockstar]

The Bizarre Refusal to Apply Cost-Benefit Analysis to COVID Debates
Are those who oppose a ban on cars or a radical reduction in speed limits sociopaths, given the huge number of people they are knowingly consigning to death or maiming?

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-bizarre-refusal-to-apply-cost

… It is impossible to overstate the costs imposed on children of all ages from the sustained, enduring and severe disruptions to their lives justified in the name of COVID. Entire books could be written, and almost certainly will be, on the multiple levels of damage children are sustaining, some of which — particularly the longer-term ones — are unknowable (long-term harms from virtually every aspect of COVID policies — including COVID itself, the vaccines, and isolation measures, are, by definition, unknown). But what we know for certain is that the harms to children from anti-COVID measures are severe and multi-pronged. One of the best mainstream news accounts documenting those costs was a January, 2021 BBC article headlined “Covid: The devastating toll of the pandemic on children.”

The “devastating toll” referenced by the article is not the death count from COVID for children, which, even in the world of the Delta variant, remains vanishingly small. The latest CDC data reveals that the grand total of children under 18 who have died in the U.S. from COVID since the start of the pandemic sixteen months ago is 361 — in a country of 330 million people, including 74.2 million people under 18. Instead, the “devastating toll” refers to multi-layered harm to children from the various lockdowns, isolation measures, stay-at-home orders, school closures, economic suffering and various other harms that have come from policies enacted to prevent the spread of the virus:

From increasing rates of mental health problems to concerns about rising levels of abuse and neglect and the potential harm being done to the development of babies, the pandemic is threatening to have a devastating legacy on the nation's young.

The closure of schools is, of course, damaging to children's education. But schools are not just a place for learning. They are places where kids socialize, develop emotionally and, for some, a refuge from troubled family life.

Prof Russell Viner, president of the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health, perhaps put it most clearly when he told MPs on the Education Select Committee earlier this month: "When we close schools we close their lives."

The richer you are, the less likely you are to be affected by these harms from COVID restrictions. Wealth allows people to leave their homes, hire private tutors, temporarily live in the countryside or mountains, or enjoy outdoor space at home. It is the poor and the economically deprived who bear the worst of these deprivations, which — along with not having children at all — may be one reason they are assigned little to no weight in mainstream discourse.

“The stress the pandemic has put on families, with rising levels of unemployment and financial insecurity combined with the stay-at-home orders, has put strain on home life up and down the land,” the BBC notes. But even for adults and those who are middle-class and above, severe and sustained isolation from community and life is bound to produce serious mental health harms, as two mental health experts I interviewed all the way back in April, 2020, warned.


https://youtu.be/oLmLiF4VPns

[AVGWarhawk]

@Rockstar

No doubt. My nieces appear affected by the entire ordeal. There lives are cut off. Not much socialization other then texting classmates. Social interaction is relegated to what is on Youtube.

[Skybird]

If its not on TV then its not true anyway. :smug:


Serious. Today kids feel they get punished if an adult tells them they should play outside. Most prefer to stick to their consoles or PC gaming platforms all day long and build fat rings around their waste so that they can stay afloat when planet Titanic sinks. Grammar schools have small kids that are so obese and diabetic as fifty years ago was to be seen only in very old people suffering from late onset diabetes. And in cafes and othe rpalces I see tzhe yohjgnster sitting together - texting away on their smartphones. They even stare at these damn things when walking down the street, not to mention: crossing it.

[Skybird]

And he is smiling all the way to the bank. So, are we to take vaccine after vaccine after vaccine? More boosters? :doh:


You mean like with the as expensive/cheap and much less effective seasonal flu shots?


Compared to most other vaccines available, Covid vaccines indeed are cheap. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

You mean like with the as expensive/cheap and much less effective seasonal flu shots?


Compared to most other vaccines available, Covid vaccines indeed are cheap. ;)

They are not cheap. They are paid for by tax dollars. I pay taxes. My taxes are never cheap.

Arlo, your vaccine is one me. Enjoy!

[Arlo]

Reckon yours is on my tax dollars then. You're welcome. :up:

[Skybird]

They are not cheap. They are paid for by tax dollars. I pay taxes. My taxes are never cheap.

Arlo, your vaccine is one me. Enjoy!
Go back to last year, I posted a list with price comparisons.
That the US was willing to pay more for Covid vaccines than the European nations, on average, is not our fault. ;)

Compared to other vaccines, the Covid vaccines as negotiated last year were absolutely not out of the usual price ranges, and last year at least even were lower than most other popular vaccines.


They payment is made via the local currencies.

[AVGWarhawk]

Go back to last year, I posted a list with price comparisons.
That the US was willing to pay more for Covid vaccines than the European nations, on average, is not our fault. ;)

Compared to other vaccines, the Covid vaccines as negotiated last year were absolutely not out of the usual price ranges, and last year at least even were lower than most other popular vaccines.


They payment is made via the local currencies.

By who?

[3catcircus]

It's almost as if some of you weren't around for Polio boosters. :shucks:

Except prime could sue polio vaccine manufacturers of they rushed their trials or they're vaccines caused unnecessary injury or death. Pharma contracts with governments for covid vaccines absolve them of any liability.

And... It took 45 years from the discovery of the polio virus until a vaccine was available. 46 years for measles. We still don't have a vaccine for RSV. All three of them are far more deadly than covid for the vulnerable. Why the rush for covid? Agree we going to eventually find out this is another 1976 swine flu vaccine scam?

[Arlo]

Why the rush for covid?

Are you pretending to be serious?

[Buddahaid]

Except prime could sue polio vaccine manufacturers of they rushed their trials or they're vaccines caused unnecessary injury or death. Pharma contracts with governments for covid vaccines absolve them of any liability.

And... It took 45 years from the discovery of the polio virus until a vaccine was available. 46 years for measles. We still don't have a vaccine for RSV. All three of them are far more deadly than covid for the vulnerable. Why the rush for covid? Agree we going to eventually find out this is another 1976 swine flu vaccine scam?

You are ignoring the vast improvements in research technology and understanding of microbiology that have occurred over the decades.

[Arlo]

You are ignoring the vast improvements in research technology and understanding of microbiology that have occurred over the decades.

But the Great Chicago Fire burned for over two days, killed approximately 300 people, destroyed roughly 3.3 square miles (9 km2) of the city, and left more than 100,000 residents homeless. And the post earthquake San Francisco fire burned for three days and destroyed approximately 25,000 buildings on 490 city blocks.

Why are we in such a dad-blamed hurry to put out a fire before it even burns down one house now? Reckless firefighters!

[Catfish]

"Republicans throughout the country are sick with envy at what DeSantis has been able to accomplish."

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/dQ5ptNDn/120246921-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-25aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/5jFns3BF)

[Onkel Neal]

Moderna wraps full FDA approval request of COVID-19 vaccine (https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/moderna-request-full-fda-approval-covid-vaccine):Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Moderna has completed a submission filing for full FDA approval of its COVID-19 vaccine in individuals 18 and up, the company announced Wednesday. The biotech firm began submitting data for regulatory review in June.

Pending FDA review, the vaccine could become the second COVID-19 shot following Pfizer/BioNTech to win full approval, the next step beyond emergency authorization. Licensure involves rigorous review of additional data on safety, efficacy and quality, not to mention site inspections and independent FDA analyses.

[Arlo]

Iceland has had 0 deaths from Covid-19 since May. Here's why
CNN's Gary Tuchman looks at how Iceland has been able to lower deaths from Covid-19 to zero, and maintain it since May.

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/1788070484713913

[AVGWarhawk]

Reckon yours is on my tax dollars then. You're welcome. :up:

Darn it. Broke even.

[Arlo]

Darn it. Broke even.

The concept of how our federal taxes work and who should or should not benefit can be daunting ... for some. :03:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYslhtMbDw

[3catcircus]

You are ignoring the vast improvements in research technology and understanding of microbiology that have occurred over the decades.

If that were true, why do we still not have vaccines for RSV, HSV, HCV, or HIV? We've been doing research on them for decades - those same decades where you claim people are now smarter in the understanding of microbiology and the vast improvements in research technology... They should be able to whip out vaccines for all 4 of them within a year...

Especially HIV - Fauci has been milking the taxpayer for decades on HIV research with nothing to show for it.

No - these coronavirus vaccines were rushed. Wanna take them for emergency use? Fine. Your choice. But don't tell me that less than a year's worth of real-world data in the wild is sufficient to claim that they are safe and effective to warrant FDA approval. Trials in carefully controlled conditions to date have to small of a sample size to be statistically-significant.

[Arlo]

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/moderna-hiv-vaccine/

[3catcircus]

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/moderna-hiv-vaccine/

Yeah, 38 years since the discovery of HIV. Your evidence is not a ringing endorsement and merely proves my point.

[Rockstar]

Fauci recommends COVID-19 treatment DeSantis was slammed for promoting

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-recommends-covid-19-treatment-170700369.html

DeSantis sent a letter to the Associated Press after the report was published, criticizing the outlet for implying that his support for the treatment was politically driven.

"You succeeded in publishing a misleading, clickbait headline about one of your political opponents, but at the expense of deterring individuals infected with COVID from seeking life-saving treatment, which will cost lives," the governor's letter said. "Was it worth it?"

[Arlo]

Yeah, 38 years since the discovery of HIV. Your evidence is not a ringing endorsement and merely proves my point.

You're welcome, since you obviously was unaware. :ping: