Wuhan virus 2020 [Archive] - Page 13 - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Skybird

04-19-20, 06:08 AM

The German govenrment cut to pieces the never ending calls for switiching to a strategy of enforcing herd immunity. They replied with the mathemtical calcuations showing that in order to achieve a sufficient level of herd immunty within 18 months, every day 73 thousand Germans would need to get infected. From numbers of known cases we know that between 15 and 20% of identified infected people need to get hospitalised sooner or later. In other words, every day between 11 and 14 thosuand patients would additionally get spilled into the hopsital's corona stations. Corona patients stay in hospitals for usually not less than 2 weeks, often longer, serious cases for many weeks.

Germany has 500 thousand hospital beds and before the crisis listed 28 thousand ICUs. Around one fifth of these were free before the crisis began.

Further a speaker of the government said they calculate with a demand in protective masks for the German population of 12 billion per year.

Latest scientifc research results from the US further strengthen suspicions that Covid19 gets transmitted by simple talking and breathing alone - coughing is not needed. - What do you say...! :o They should have asked me six and eight weeks ago, i could have told them that already back then...

Jimbuna

04-19-20, 06:25 AM

Lockdown measures could be eased within four weeks time, according to infectious disease expert Sir Jeremy Farrar.

But the director of the Wellcome Trust warned that the public should be prepared for further waves of the coronavirus in the coming months and that rushing an end to the lockdown could be disastrous.

"We should not see this as a discrete episode,” he told Sky News's Sophy Ridge On Sunday. “I think the probability of what we must be planning for is that there would be further waves of this in the future.”

Sir Jeremy, who is a member of the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said lifting lockdown prematurely would mean the virus comes back again “very quickly”.

"If we were to release those lockdowns too soon whilst the infection rates are still high... then the epidemic would come back again, it would come back very quickly. It would rebound within a few weeks or a couple of months."

Sir Jeremy added he was "optimistic" about finding a vaccine for the Covid-19 coronavirus with advances in science, but acknowledged "the truth is we don't have another vaccine for any other human coronavirus".

"It's not a given that we will make a vaccine,” he said.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-latest-news-boris-johnson-ppe-cases-deaths/

Skybird

04-19-20, 10:10 AM

Correction:
Above I had orignally said the German government said it would take 73 thousand new infections per day to reach kind of a herd imunity after 180 days. That was an error I made, which I meanwhile corrected. What the man said who gets quoted there (its the chief of the chancellor's office) is that the herd immunity with these infection numbers of 73 thosua nd per day would be reached not already after 180 days, but after 18 months. Three times as long, that is.

Jimbuna

04-19-20, 10:53 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJylEiYXrXE

Mr Quatro

04-19-20, 11:02 AM

Skybird

04-19-20, 11:17 AM

ikalugin

04-19-20, 11:20 AM

Tired of pulling off your face mask when your thirsty?

If only the majority of modern military style full face masks had a drinking, system, o wait they do.

Jimbuna

04-19-20, 11:51 AM

Rockstar

04-19-20, 12:52 PM

The plot thickens. it indeed seems that you can get infected by Covid19 repeatedly.

Argh, that is a really bad one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-52344676/coronavirus-possible-to-be-infected-with-covid-19-more-than-once

What I got from that interview was nothing she said really hadn't made this virus different than any other one. So much if not everything seems to depend upon the age and/or health of the host. And the ability of health care systems to handle the influx of new patients.

Aktungbby

04-19-20, 01:14 PM

Tired of pulling off your face mask when your thirsty?

https://scontent.ffar2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/93855390_1119784608356376_6553557568944340992_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQkB3xaVX1DWWRooneP9Vs2T28S2SsbxtZiQnpP2Q8p 2_KC9Z_uPp6CTvRRZrzh1bVU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffar2-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=a2565b1b5f10d3e73dbc81352dd85e4a&oe=5EC2712F
:har::haha::har::haha: I JUST SHOWED THIS TO MY WIFE OF 40 YEARS WHO SEWS AND KNITS FOR EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY AND HAS CONSIDERTED MAKING MASKS FOR THE LOCAL HOSPITALS; (THANK GOD SHE'S GOT HER OWN 'SEWING ROOM' WHILE I'M HIDING IN THE 'MANCAVE' DURING LOCKDOWN---PRACTICALLY A SEPARATE VACATION IN THIS TIME OF TRAVAIL!:doh::yep:)
AND, SINCE I'VE A FEW OLD PAIRS OF BLUEJEANS I CAN NO LONGER SQUEEZE INTO....:hmmm:

Catfish

04-19-20, 02:46 PM

[...] I'm sorry Catfish ... I don't read everything ... Did I miss something? What did I miss :hmmm:
No, i am sorry, i fear this came over too harsh, i just wanted to say that this Remdesivir is a kind of medicine that "accidentally" works, but it is not the cure, not the vaccine. If itf helps to get over the infection by whatever means it is of course well worth using.

Skybird

04-19-20, 02:50 PM

The South Koreans have been saying this for over a week I believe.
Indeed, thats why I said the plot thinbckens (further). I had mentioned the Koreans a week ago or so, but nobody then beleived, or at least not many.

Skybird

04-19-20, 03:11 PM

The short history of the European initiative for a Corona app has so far seemed to come from a script for a Hollywood catastrophe film: Scientists and entrepreneurs forge an alliance in the face of the disaster, program the nights through, and one European government after the other supports the project , and in the end, the basis is created for an app that can contain the pandemic across Europe. In the meantime, however, the PEPP-PT initiative has met harsh reality. Not only is the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) app delayed by several weeks, as Federal Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU) announced on Friday. An open dispute has broken out in the project itself.

Several important scientists and institutes turned their backs on PEPP-PT at the weekend and raised serious allegations. The Swiss epidemiologist Marcel Salathé, professor at the Polytechnic University in Lausanne, left the association on Friday. Salathé wrote on Twitter that the initiative was not "open" and "transparent" enough. Although he still believes in the core ideas of finding an international solution for an app that also respects the privacy of the user, he continued to write: "I can't stand behind something that I don't know what it actually stands for."

After Salathé, the Helmholtz Institute for Information Security, based in Germany, announced that it wanted to withdraw. Additional scientific institutions were added during the weekend: the Italian “ISI Foundation” and the Catholic University of Leuven. Salathé and the German Helmholtz Institute for Information Security now want to get involved in another initiative called DP3T, which is based on a decentralized approach to the data storage of contact persons.

Almost all critics have in common that they prefer a decentralized solution and fear serious data breaches should the data be saved on a central server instead. Salathé explains the difference as follows: “What has been published by PEPP-PT boils down to the argument that you have to trust a central body. But our approach is: And do not tempt us. Let’s build a system from the start that makes it impossible to link data because it doesn’t allow it from scratch. ”

Above all, the critics accuse the PEPP-PT of suppressing an open discussion about the question of which approach is better suited for a Corona app. "At PEPP-PT it was said: a public debate is just a shame," says Salathé to the F.A.Z. “I think exactly this open debate is necessary because we have to build trust. Everything has to be completely transparent. Now they are mainly advocating a central approach. I don't mind. But then the details have to be disclosed. "

Ninja Marnau, scientific group leader at the Helmholtz Institute for Information Security, also criticizes that it has long been unclear what the initiative actually stands for. The external presentation was misleading. “PEPP-PT has not delivered a development platform for an app. It was always an umbrella under which different teams exchanged ideas. ”It was never just the one platform that is now being developed for the Robert Koch Institute. "Unfortunately, that was how it was portrayed, especially by Mr. Boos." Hans-Christian Boos from Arago is a leading player in PEPP-PT. He has made numerous phone calls in the past few weeks to bring the concept of a Corona app closer to the public.

The support of many European governments was also unfortunate; In Marnau's opinion, this gave the impression that, above all, an app was planned across Europe. But the opposite is the case: In Germany, the Heinrich Hertz Institute (HHI) is developing an app that is likely to be based on a central approach, France and Italy have also carefully chosen a central approach, other European countries on the other hand, for decentralized storage of the data.

Marnau says that until the end of the day, they had no idea what the initiative stood for. “There were always coordination conferences on the phone, but we never got specific information about who was really responsible. Is that Mr. Boos? And who takes on the technical leadership role? The HHI? ”Because a lot of other institutes were involved in the work. In addition, the decentralized approach suddenly disappeared from the PEPP-PT website.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/offener-streit-bei-projekt-fuer-corona-app-16732590.html?printPagedArticle=true#pageIndex_2

I do support the basic idea of such an app, but would accept it on my device only if two codntions are met: the data must be stored locally and for limited time only, then atuomatcially be deleted from the local devices, and the source code must be opened to the public so that independent organisations that are not the government and not the industry, but for example the Chaos Computer Club Hamburg, can check it for backdoors, openigns and vulnerabilities by which the dtata could be retirved, abused, or the device owener could be further monitored. The giovenrments cannot be trusted, and one thign is sure, and is to be feared regarding all consequences launched giovenrm,ents during the Corna crisis: power tools and and options to ciontorl people better that are ebign instralled durign Corona, EVERY govenrment will hate to give up again.

For the same reason I totally oppose Apple and Google when they want to develope their own Corona code and make it an integral part of their OS.

Because the holy mantra of digital trinity goes like this:
1. There is no deletion of data, never.
2. There is no anonymization that cannot be reversed.
3. Code and databases that can be abused by governments and industries for controlling the public, will be abused, always.

August

04-19-20, 03:39 PM

No, i am sorry, i fear this came over too harsh, i just wanted to say that this Remdesivir is a kind of medicine that "accidentally" works, but it is not the cure, not the vaccine. If itf helps to get over the infection by whatever means it is of course well worth using.

Kinda like hydroxychloroquine?

mapuc

04-19-20, 03:45 PM

Conspiracy warning.

A friend posted this on its wall with a laughing face.

Here it is...have a good laugh this Sunday evening.

Many of those sharing the post are pushing a conspiracy theory falsely claiming that 5G - which is used in mobile phone networks and relies on signals carried by radio waves - is somehow responsible for coronavirus.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52168096

Markus

Onkel Neal

04-19-20, 08:30 PM

No no, 5G does not have any bearing on Covid-19.

It does, however, like all other sources of radio and microwave transmissions, contribute to Radio Wave Madness.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

em2nought

04-20-20, 12:06 AM

Kinda like hydroxychloroquine?

Deleted to try and abide by the request to separate topics

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 04:45 AM

Only read the article if you're of a strong disposition. It certainly brought a few tears to my eyes.

Coronavirus: 'I'm the nurse who switches off the ventilator'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52345177

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 04:58 AM

Germany starts to reopen smaller shops after deciding the outbreak is coming under control.

The Czech Republic allows some markets and other small businesses to restart.

The UK is to try to use the blood of survivors to treat patients.

Three beaches in Sydney re-open as New South Wales records just six new cases.

Despite falling cases, Australia still has strict "lockdown" rules.

New York's governor says cases there are "slowing, not growing"

The number of deaths in the US now exceeds 41,000

There are more than 2.4m infections worldwide, with more than 165,000 deaths.

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 05:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrB9vl47LQc

vienna

04-20-20, 05:23 AM

Only read the article if you're of a strong disposition. It certainly brought a few tears to my eyes.

There are so tragic consequences of this Covid-19 crisis and I fear there will likely be many more; one aspect I have seen more of lately is family members having to say goodbye to their dying relative via cell phone because of the need to isolate patients, much as described in the link you posted; some have been moved to try to provide for those who will be separated from the dying:

California family fundraising to get phone chargers so COVID-19 patients don’t suffer alone --

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/california-family-fundraising-to-get-phone-chargers-so-covid-19-patients-dont-suffer-alone/

What would be nice to see would be if those telecom companies, who make obscene profits off their users, would do something like donate phones to hospital for precisely the sort of situation in your link; at least they could donate the minutes t use for those sad farewells to lift any burden of cost for the hospitals, their staffs, and, importantly, those left behind by the passing of their loved ones...

I knew someone once who told me how her father, living on the other side of the country had a very sudden medical emergency, and was near immediate death and wanted to talk to her; there was no way she was going to be able to fly back in time before he was expected to pass; her father's doctor arranged for a phone headset for the father, who was too weakened to hold a phone and made a call to the daughter; the father and daughter had, as parents and children do, been quarreling up to that point, but that all went away in that final call; the father did have some family at his side, but the importance of that final call was all that mattered to him, that final resolution...

<O>

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 05:53 AM

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 05:54 AM

blackswan40

04-20-20, 05:58 AM

Coronavirus is it China's Trojan Horse Secret First Strike Weapon unseen invisible stealthy and deadly released and spread around the world changing the world order in one action making China the worlds only Economic and Military Super Power nocking America off top of the tree.
China's claim that the south China Sea is theirs by right going against the world wide agreement of free navigation of the Seas.
We have all seen the Chinese Navy growing in size and flexing their Military Muscle in the Area

Tanaka Memorial a Japanese strategic planning document from 1927 in which Prime Minister Baron Tanaka Giichi discribed a plan of Japanese Expansion of the entire Pacific including Australia.
Is China using the Tanaka Memorial as a Blue Print for there own Expansion ?.

Tanaka Memorial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanaka_Memorial

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanaka_Giichi)

Skybird

04-20-20, 06:09 AM

Wuhan is home to the world's largest virological lab database, and I do not rule out that the virus has escaped from there. I linked to an according article already in mid-March or so. But that is as far as I am willing to take into account "alternative explanations". To assume they intentionally released the virus in a bid for global dominance, theoretically is possible (another thing i mentioned back then for the sake of completeness), but I do not take it serious, since it would represent the first strike in world war three, because deliberately destroying the economies of other states and killing hundreds of thousands, no doubt would be an act of war.

The Chinese politcal caste are corrupt and arrogant as a political and economic actor, they are totalitarian and untrustworthy, they are brutal and underhanded and unscrupulous, yes: but suicidal they are - most likely - not.

vienna

04-20-20, 06:26 AM

Re: hydroxychloroquine vs Remdesivir...

Much comparison is being made between the two drugs and arguments for the use of either for treatment of Covid-19 seem to want to equate hydroxychloroquine to Remdesivir in terms of 'Well, if you can use one, why can't you use the other?'; as with so many arguments, this is a case of apples and oranges...

Remdesivir (RDV) --

https://www.rxlist.com/consumer_remdesivir_rdv/drugs-condition.htm

New Gilead remdesivir COVID-19 data show up old problems with limited data
--

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gilead-clinical-data-hint-at-efficacy-remdesivir-covid-19

So with Remdesivir, we know it has been tested initially as a treatment for Ebola, that it has yet too receive FDA approval, and has shown a possible effectiveness against Covid-19 in an extremely small number of test cases; the drug also seems to have very few known side effects, with the most severe being the elevation of liver enzyme levels, an indicator of potential liver damage; the other noted effects include nausea and vomiting; Remdesivir also may have interaction issues when used with antibiotics...

As for hydroxychloroquine, some background may be in order first: the drug is one of several created over many, many years as an alternative and/or improvement on the original drug used to fight malaria, quinine; those of you who have the occasional gin and tonic are following along in a tradition where quinine was administered in tonic form and it was believed using the drug preventively as a mixer was a way of making the tonic palatable. A real big problem, and the reason why there are so many alternatives that have been created to quinine, is the long, varied, and potentially serious side effects and hazardous interactions with other medications when using quinine:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/quinine

https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/quinine

Variants of quinine were developed to diminish, if not eliminate, the problems with quinine, but the results have not really been much better; hydroxychloroquine has many of the same, and a few new, sideeffects and interactions as the original quinine:

Hydroxychloroquine Side Effects --

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html

Hydroxychloroquine Drug Interactions --

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/hydroxychloroquine.html

A total of 332 drugs are known to interact with hydroxychloroquine.

59 major drug interactions
268 moderate drug interactions
5 minor drug interactions

In addition, patients with any of several preexisting conditions are not advised to be treated with hydroxychloroquine:

https://www.drugs.com/hydroxychloroquine.html

Before taking this medicine

You should not use hydroxychloroquine if you are allergic to it.

Hydroxychloroquine should not be used for long-term treatment in children.

To make sure this medicine is safe for you, tell your doctor if you have:

a history of vision changes or damage to your retina caused by an anti-malaria medication;
heart disease, heart rhythm disorder (such as long QT syndrome);
diabetes;
a stomach disorder;
an allergy to quinine;
liver or kidney disease;
psoriasis;
alcoholism; or
a genetic enzyme disorder such as porphyria or glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency.

It is not known whether hydroxychloroquine will harm an unborn baby. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant or plan to become pregnant.

Hydroxychloroquine comes with such a long history of potential, serious problems and that is one reason doctors have been so reluctant to prescribe its use and do so only in the most extreme cases; it is not, by any means a 'silver bullet' and has the potential of doing much more harm than good...

That said, it should also be noted Remdesivir has relatively short history and given the lack of sufficient data and controlled and supervised testing regarding its actual efficacy and potential for harmful side effects or caveats in administering it to patients with preexisting conditions, it can be held to suspicion also...

..., and that being said, I would most likely take neither for Covid-19, but if I had to, I would lean toward Remdesivir, with fewer known effects and caveats rather than hydroxychloroquine, with its long history of bad side effects and caveats...

<O>

vienna

04-20-20, 06:41 AM

When the people in Wuhan, China died they just cremated them with no funeral's allowed. Not even sure if the relatives knew their loved ones had passed away.

What about America? I heard that weddings are not allowed ,,, what about funeral's?

That's the reason all those bodies are being buried temporarily in mass graves in New York; pending the outcome of the crisis, those bodies not claimed are buried and nor cremated out of hand, since doing so would potentially violate the cultural and/or religious concerns of the decedent's families/survivors; as for those who claim the bodies and wish to hold funerals, this article give a sample of the issues:

Funeral homes adjust as COVID-19 upends the business of death --

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/funeral-homes-adjust-covid-19-upends-business-death

In some other countries, there has even been the practice of requiring the families to bury the bodies of loved ones on their own, digging the graves themselves...

<O>

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 07:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdcDgX1bPaU

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 09:47 AM

In some other countries, there has even been the practice of requiring the families to bury the bodies of loved ones on their own, digging the graves themselves...

Yuck! :o

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 10:30 AM

US, Canada, Mexico borders shut for another 30 days.

The Czech Republic made its first move to lift restrictions two weeks ago, allowing citizens to cycle, jog and hike in the countryside without face masks.

In Norway this morning children returned to pre-school, under three conditions: they must take packed-lunches, no toys can be brought in from home, and there must be hand-washing facilities outside.

Books, bikes and cars are being sold again today in Germany, with face masks recommended in public places, and mandatory in some states.

In Spain, some construction work has restarted but general lockdown measures remain tight. A ban on children leaving their homes has been lifted, so they can now get fresh air.

Belgium and France will stay under lockdown until early May, with care home deaths still a huge concern in both countries.

Skybird

04-20-20, 11:09 AM

More on the problem with tracking apps.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52353720

The German RKI has deliberately rejected two weeks ago to open the source code and to allow tarnsparent checks from independent experts, instead simply demanding blind trust by the public.

Not the first communication esaster by the RKI, their weerks long denial of the usefulness of masks was another famous example, though not the only one. If these apps and their data are so essential for controlling the pandemic, I cannot see then why they have such a big issue with makling the data storage thing transparent and ruling out for sure that abuse by storing data in centralised data banks could happen.

The overwhelming impression is that they want this option beign exlcuded as an implicit featuzre and that the possibiulity to profile people independently from the Covid mission, is the real purpose here, with Covid19 serving just as a strawman, or alibi.

As things look right now, I will not voluntarily accept such an app being installed and used on my device(s). Only idiots blindly trust the states they live in, history teaches that the state is not to be trusted. If these apps are so essential, then for heaven's sake: make their data storage time-limited, de-centralised/local, and the source code transparent. If that is too much asked for, I will quit believing the truth behind the argument that it is an essential app for battloing Covid19.

Skybird

04-20-20, 11:15 AM

In the Netherlands and the UK, dozens of attacks on G5 broadcasting masts have been recorded. I read 16 in the Netherlands and 20 in the UK in the last week alone.

There is no conspiracy theory that is stupid enough as if it would not find some airheads believing them. :doh:

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 11:18 AM

I cannot see then why they have such a big issue with makling the data storage thing transparent and ruling out for sure that abuse by storing data in centralised data banks could happen.

The overwhelming impression is that they want this option beign exlcuded as an implicit featuzre and that the possibiulity to profile people independently from the Covid mission, is the real purpose here, with Covid19 serving just as a strawman, or alibi.

As things look right now, I will not voluntarily accept such an app being installed and used on my device(s).

Only idiots blindly trust the states they live in, history teaches that the state is not to be trusted.

If these apps are so essential, then for heaven's sake: make their data storage time-limited, de-centralised/local, and the source code transparent. If that is too much asked for, I will quit believing the truth behind the argument that it is an essential app for battloing Covid19.

good points Sky ... what if they decide to use the stored data for hiring purposes and then from there they decide that if you can go to a sporting event or even the theater ... no end to what this data could be used for :o

mapuc

04-20-20, 11:20 AM

Read something interesting yesterday(and now I can't find this Danish article)

"A Danish Doctor claim that those who have been infected and are in a severe(not the right word, I know) situation shall NOT be placed in a respirator, as they do around the world. Those who have been infected does not have pneumonia in which those respirator would have been a great thing.

When I meet people with breathing problems, they look like they have made a jump from 8000 meters down to sea level.

I give my patient an oxygen mask and saturate their blood with oxygen.

A majority of my patient survive while it's the other way around among those who a put in a respirator."

I find it interesting, if it's true, that putting patient in a respirator kills them.

Myself I do not know what's the truth. I just notice a doctor claim these respirator kills people and they do not have pneumonia
While other doctors say they do and respirator does save their life.

Markus

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 11:47 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO4zLDxZb4U

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 11:50 AM

A further 449 deaths in UK hospitals confirmed, bringing total to 16,509

But new confirmed infections are "flattening out", says deputy chief scientific adviser Angela McLean.

Nine out of 10 UK coronavirus deaths are in hospital, says Public Health England official.

UK's emergency pay scheme will help pay wages of more than a million furloughed workers, chancellor says.

Spain's daily death toll falls below 400 for the first time since a pandemic was declared on 11 March.

US oil prices drop to 21-year low as border restrictions with Mexico and Canada extended for 30 days.

There are more than 2.4m infections worldwide, with more than 166,000 deaths.

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 11:56 AM

Further good news on the numbers of patients in hospital with coronavirus – a small drop, the seventh day in a row it has come down.

Now around 18,000 patients are in hospital, with plenty of space to treat more if numbers did go up.

There are more than 15,000 beds free, while one in five intensive care beds is available.

It now seems clear the health service will not be overwhelmed in the way it was in Italy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52349779

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 11:57 AM

border restrictions with Mexico and Canada extended for 30 days.

I didn't know that ... What will happen to our avocados from Mexico? :o

Jimbuna

04-20-20, 12:03 PM

Drink tea :03:

Rockstar

04-20-20, 01:16 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO4zLDxZb4U

I know some people in Kenya who run an orphanage for children who've lost parents to H.I.V.. Like Malawi, H.I.V. is an extremely widespread problem there as well.

Skybird

04-20-20, 01:43 PM

vienna

04-20-20, 02:06 PM

Drink tea :03:

Not all that familiar with avocados, are we?...

<O>

August

04-20-20, 02:24 PM

I didn't know that ... What will happen to our avocados from Mexico? :o

Cinco Di Mayo is coming up. No guacamole? :o

vienna

04-20-20, 02:33 PM

California is sitting pretty when it comes to avocados: projections for the 2020 season show an increase of 70% in the state's crop...

<O>

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 03:42 PM

Doesn't look like Disneyland or Disneyworld is going to open anytime soon.
May 1st is only ten days from now, but Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse wearing mask would look good for Disney's image, uh? :oops:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/20/disney-stops-paying-100000-employees.aspx

Entertainment giant Walt Disney (NYSE:DIS) is now suspending salary payments to over 100,000 employees, mostly cast members in its theme parks. The company employs 70,000 people in its Orlando location alone.

Disney ordered the shutdown of all its parks on March 14 due to the COVID-19 health scare. The company has been paying its non-working employees over the last five weeks, but the company announced on April 2 that the salary payments would soon end.

"The COVID-19 pandemic is having a devastating impact on our world with untold suffering and loss, and has required all of us to make sacrifices," the company said in a public statement.

Rockstar

04-20-20, 03:42 PM

It's 420, Avacados are tomorrow. :D

Skybird

04-20-20, 05:23 PM

One needs to assume that over Easter, people met more with families and friends. However, there is a roughly 14-day delay in actual events in reality, and repported case numbers and R0 value klater on. I fear, as partly is the case in Germany, that the falling numbers and R0 value lead to growing frustration and dissatisfaction with the suporessive situation, and demands for easing things too much. Thats is indeed a big issue here in germany, with its 16 federla states - each of them handles things differently. Some are imo irresponisbly far reaching in their easing of lockdown conditons, others stay where they are.

In my hometown, shops up to 800 m2 can open now, mjst foloow restrictions, however, and from Monday on masks are amndatory in all shops and busses and trains. However,even the most unsuitibale thin layer of any cloth already qualifies as a "mask", where as we now know quite well that the infection cna be carried over thorugh the air and by simple breath and speaking already: such mask ionly break the air stream a little bit so that aerosol do not epxlode woith so hgh speed in their start9ing phase - but they stay in the air and slowly mix with all surroundign air.

We have brought R0 value down, but thne came Easter, and more visits at home and form firends may have taken place. Whioch could mean that in a few days we say case numbers growng again, and R0 growing again.

And then we need to go into a second full lock down, whci then will be more ruinous than the first one.

In other words, w ehave had the hammer, now we do the dance. But we dance on tiptoes, near two abysses on both sides of the thin blade we do dance on.The race has jjust begaun, and we ar ejust out of the starting blocks. Now comes months and months of the enduranbce race.

And everybody over here already discusses exit strategies again and when to ease lockdown and how to open all shopping malls and schools and kindergardens: in one, two or three weeks.

We have done well untl here, but in recent days, the public debate has turned crazy. I see a very realistic chance that we will get hit by easing too much too early, and get hit soon.

In one week or so we should see any Easter effects in the statistics, If there are any, they can only mean that counts and R0 have gone upwards again.
Oh look, just while I wrote that ^, I now read that the RKI reported on Monday a climb in new infection numbers, and R0 havign climbed from 0.8 on Saturday and 0.7 earlier last week, to now 0.9. I noticed already on Good Friday that people had become careless just because it was brilliant weather, and that is ten and eleven days ago, so within the time windows you would expect for any effects to materialise.

R0 must be below 1.0 to prevent case numbers overloading the hospitals. To realistically dry out the pandemic and defeat it without vaccine and mdeications, it woul need to be below 0.3-0.4, I read somewhere. That is not the German plan. But R0 needs to be around 0.7-0.8 over here.

Already one week ago, The Berlin Charitée's professor Drosten as well as the Helmholtz Society warned of a second wave being provoked by politrical measures aiming at easing the lockdown too early. In the shadow of the time when peopel think it all was a success and infectiodsn are down, the virus could spread unrecognised and infiltrate all society equally, escaping from its former sociological hotspot areas and groups. when then it manifestates again with symptoms, all of a sudden you get cases reoorted form EVERYWHERE and from EVERYBODY, this was how the second wave of the Spanish flu became so very devastating.

Mr Quatro

04-20-20, 05:40 PM

Moved to political section

Will someone please tell me which side is for keeping the lockdown and which side is for lifting the lockdown.

Rockstar

04-20-20, 06:43 PM

Moved to political section

Will someone please tell me which side is for keeping the lockdown and which side is for lifting the lockdown.

The decision should not be a politically divisive us'in agin them'ins kind of decision. Please please please dont fall for it.

I think the decision should be considered state by state. Looking at the below link may give some insight into who would be able to start opening back up and who should remain on lockdown. Keep in mind that link only scratches the surface of information available.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

Skybird

04-20-20, 07:11 PM

Moved to political section

Will someone please tell me which side is for keeping the lockdown and which side is for lifting the lockdown.
Trumpman is against it, and calls for rioting in several Democrats' states to overthrow it.

Governors seem to be more reality-oriented, it seems, no matter their party. Many of them seem to do a much better job than Trumpman ever will in trying to navigate through this crisis.

For Trumpman it seems the whole desaster that has struck the world is just an obstacle to his reelection train that until here was on autopilot to victory, and now is no longer. His desastrous Covid19 management and his as desastrous communication style kill his chances. Suddenly, even a Biden can defeat him. :haha:

August

04-20-20, 09:34 PM

Trumpman is against it, and calls for rioting in several Democrats' states to overthrow it.

This is a pure lie on your part. At no point has the President called for rioting and you know it.

Governors seem to be more reality-oriented, it seems, no matter their party. Many of them seem to do a much better job than Trumpman ever will in trying to navigate through this crisis.

Yeah right, sending boatloads of unmasked cops after a lone surfer and banning the sale of garden seeds are so much more reality oriented. Are you sure the reality that you are referring to is not the fantasy world you live in?

For Trumpman it seems the whole desaster that has struck the world is just an obstacle to his reelection train that until here was on autopilot to victory, and now is no longer. His desastrous Covid19 management and his as desastrous communication style kill his chances. Suddenly, even a Biden can defeat him. :haha:

More fantasy from your own private Idaho. It's both funny and a bit sad at the same time.

Skybird

04-21-20, 05:20 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-52361004/coronavirus-babies-survivors-and-floored-nhs-staff

Staff in any nation's health care system currently work above and beyond its usual capacity. Its just a question of time until they burn through. Humans can go like this for so and so long, and not longer.

Skybird

04-21-20, 05:23 AM

Of course, and inevitably: the world's biggest beer filling station, the Münchner Oktoberfest, will remain shut this year.

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 06:18 AM

Deaths in England and Wales are at a 20-year high.

UK government advisers meet to discuss whether the public should be told to wear face masks.

Virgin Australia, which Sir Richard Branson's group part-owns, enters administration.

Sir Richard is also seeking loans for Virgin Atlantic and has offered an island as collateral.

Cases continue to grow exponentially in Singapore, mostly among the migrant worker community.

Donald Trump says he will suspend immigration to the US to fight virus and protect jobs.

The US president gave no further details on the plan, which is expected to draw legal challenges.

Israel has been marking Holocaust Remembrance Day in the shadow of the coronavirus pandemic.

On Monday, for the first time ever, futures for West Texas Intermediate (WTI) - the benchmark for US oil - fell into negative territory.

And today, the price of Brent Crude - the benchmark used by Europe and the rest of the world - slipped below $20 for the first time in 18 years.

An employee of the World Health Organisation has died and a government official injured in Myanmar's Rakhine state after their car was hit by gunfire, authorities have confirmed.

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 06:26 AM

The latest from Europe

More than three in 10 deaths in England and Wales are linked to coronavirus, figures show.
The Office for National Statistics said in the week ending 10 April, the virus was mentioned on 6,213 death certificates.
It pushed the total number of deaths in that week to over 18,000 - the highest weekly total since the start of 2000.

Under its tight restrictions, children in Spain are not allowed outside for any reason. The government is expected to announce how to let children out next week, with reports suggesting children up to the age of 12 being allowed to leave their homes.

Germany’s football league, the Bundesliga, could restart as early as 9 May. State leaders and football officials have suggested matches could go on behind closed doors under strict new hygiene measures. “A weekend with football is much more bearable than a weekend without football," Bavaria’s Premier Markus Söder said.

But Bavaria has also announced some less positive news: Oktoberfest, the famous German beer drinking festival, will not take place in the state this year. Usually about six million people travel to Munich for the annual event.

A group of about 50 people have gone on hunger strike in Bosnia. They have been placed in quarantine for more than two weeks in a student dormitory in the capital Sarajevo, to stop the spread of the virus. But many say they have not been given their test results, or even tested at all.

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 06:32 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usyQgPU-VrI

Platapus

04-21-20, 07:04 AM

California is sitting pretty when it comes to avocados: projections for the 2020 season show an increase of 70% in the state's crop...

<O>

Growing up in Southern California, we got SICK of avocados. To make things worse in the 1970's, it was popular to have house appliances in avocado color. I guess it went well with the orange shag carpeting.

Platapus

04-21-20, 07:07 AM

Moved to political section

Will someone please tell me which side is for keeping the lockdown and which side is for lifting the lockdown.

It is probably not as easy as one side against the other

There are valid arguments for keeping and closing the lockdown.

I don't believe there is, nor should there be, one national answer.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that the decision still needs to be made by the individual state governors with recommendations from national labs.

I don't think, for example, that Wyoming and California should necessarily have to operate the same.

One of the issues will be interstate travel.

Onkel Neal

04-21-20, 08:45 AM

I don't believe there is, nor should there be, one national answer.

Yeah, same here.

Just my opinion, not an expert, but now that covid19 has everyone's attention and with the country being focused on the potential threat the virus poses to overwhelming our health care system: in areas where the apex has been reached (at present), I think we could return to work, on a continuing trial basis.

Ideally our govt would have its act together enough to set up comprehensive testing (not there yet) and that would be a big help. And where people return to work, stores, restaurants, if they would put effort into practicing continued social distancing, maybe we could manage the number of cases.

Still, with 40,000 Americans dead from this in just 1 month, wow, you would think people would not need any prompting from the govt to be careful. If an Arab terrorist has managed to kill 40,000 Americans in a month, we would have lost our minds.

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 09:02 AM

Singapore has extended its partial lockdown until 1 June. The measures - called circuit breakers by the government - include school closures and almost everyone working from home. Social gatherings are banned.

Hong Kong has extended its social distancing measures until at least 7 May. The region reported four new cases on Tuesday. Chief executive Carrie Lam warned: "This is not the time to be complacent. If we relax, the good work we have done will be in vain."

Football clubs in South Korea will be allowed to hold practice matches behind closed doors from Tuesday, according to the K League. The season has already been delayed by two months due to the pandemic.

On Tuesday, China’s state media said more than 4,106 people have been screened after two clusters of Covid-19 infections were discovered at hospitals there. Harbin is close to the Russian border and not too far from Suifenhe, one of the two hotspots that the government seems nervous about.

Skybird

04-21-20, 09:06 AM

"Draw...!"

https://i.postimg.cc/MGBcLm4s/IMG-20200421-134722.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

You gotta be faster than the virus. :shucks:

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 09:30 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfbtwB9Sb8

vienna

04-21-20, 10:22 AM

Growing up in Southern California, we got SICK of avocados. To make things worse in the 1970's, it was popular to have house appliances in avocado color. I guess it went well with the orange shag carpeting.

Avocado green and orange shag...

Don't forget neon colors so bright they'd blind you; the 70s in SoCal were not the best of times when it came to good taste in many things...

<O>

Aktungbby

04-21-20, 10:27 AM

Avocado green and orange shag...
SHH! YOU'LL LET THE CAT OUTTA THE BAG! :o :shucks: :haha:

Jeff-Groves

04-21-20, 10:55 AM

I thought 'Going Green' was the next step to save the environment?
:hmmm:

vienna

04-21-20, 11:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZfbtwB9Sb8

Coronavirus man-made in Wuhan lab: Nobel laureate --

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/coronavirus-man-made-in-wuhan-lab-nobel-laureate/articleshow/75227989.cms

From the above article:

...

Montagnier, however, is a controversial figure as he had earlier published two controversial research studies — electromagnetic waves emitted by DNA (DNA teleportation) and on the benefits of papaya in AIDS or Parkinson cure — that attracted criticism from a section of the scientific community.

...

Another French virologist Étienne Simon-Lorière of the Institut Pasteur in Paris, however, rubbished Montagnier’s claims. “That (His claims) does not make sense. These are very small elements that we find in other viruses of the same family, other coronaviruses in nature,” Étienne told AFP.

...

Seems there is another side to his claims and it appears he may be dabbling in quasi-scientific investigations... :hmmm:

Coronavirus cases in New York likely came from Europe, studies say after sequence comparison --

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/10/coronavirus-cases-in-new-york-likely-came-from-europe-studies-say-after-sequence-compariso

Etienne Simon-Lorière, who is the head of Institut Pasteur’s department for evolutionary genomics of RNA Viruses said the findings were not very surprising but noted the difficulty of determining when the novel coronavirus began circulating in many countries.

“The genome of the virus is very stable so there are very few mutations that we see today,” Simon-Lorière told Euronews. This means that determining the date the virus began circulating in a community is a “delicate” process and not certain.

“But it’s true that the viruses that are circulating in the United States, that we’ve seen in other US states, resemble those that we find in Europe.”

New York has become the epicentre of the coronavirus outbreak in the United States. There are over 87,000 cases in the city alone and nearly 5,000 people have died, according to the NYC Department of Health.

In late January, the US prohibited foreign nationals who had been to China in the previous 14 days from entering the country. Americans who had been to China were told to self-quarantine.

But the US president announced a ban on travel from Europe much later - in mid-March - as several European countries were enacting lockdown policies themselves.

So, closing off travel from and to China (although the ban was so loose more than 40,000 person were still able to enter the US) and the very limited ban on travel from other nations apparently did little to stem the spread of Covid-19; the same could be true of the immigration ban the White House wants to impose now; will the ban also keep out travelers who are tourists, business travelers, etc.? If a ban is going to be imposed, it should not be a porous situation where the possibility of further contamination/contagion exists...

<O>

Aktungbby

04-21-20, 11:02 AM

I thought 'Going Green' was the next step to save the environment?
:hmmm:Well a little naranja con mi guacamole keeps a lotta 'pickaderos' gainfully employed!:o

Jeff-Groves

04-21-20, 11:19 AM

What about alfombra de pelusa naranja?

Mr Quatro

04-21-20, 11:26 AM

So, closing off travel from and to China (although the ban was so loose more than 40,000 person were still able to enter the US)

<O>

Those forty thousand persons were US citizens that Uncle Sam did not want to leave over seas :yep:

vienna

04-21-20, 12:10 PM

Those forty thousand persons were US citizens that Uncle Sam did not want to leave over seas :yep:

No, not all of them were US citizens; many were foreign nationals and some actually flew in direct from Wuhan; almost 60% of that 40,000 figure were not US citizens..

In fact, the total of persons entering the Us since the imposition of the travel ban(s) is more like 430,000 persons...

The porous nature of the travel ban and the laxity in enforcement and screening is detailed in the following article:

430,000 people have traveled from China to the US since the COVID-19 outbreak appeared – including nearly 40,000 who arrived after President Trump imposed travel restrictions --

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8188629/430-000-people-traveled-China-COVID-19-outbreak-appeared.html

...

430,000 people traveled from China to the US since the COVID-19 outbreak
Nearly 40,000 arrived in the two months after Trump issued travel restrictions
13,000 direct flights and 381,000 passengers from China arrived in the US during January
Majority of flights went to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit, Seattle and Newark
In February, about 60 percent of people traveling on direct flights from China were not American citizens
Travelers described COVID-19 health screenings in airports as inattentive
Screenings first focused on travelers from Wuhan, but expanded under Trump's travel restriction

...

<O>

Jimbuna

04-21-20, 12:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlVU8XTLICI

Skybird

04-21-20, 02:37 PM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/us/coronavirus-survivor-response-to-protesters/index.html

Leah Blomberg's voice is still raspy from having a tube stuck down her throat for nine days. Her muscles are so weak, it takes her 45 minutes to take a quick shower.
Now, as she struggles to recover from coronavirus, she wants protesters to stop "crying and complaining" about shelter-in-place orders, like the one in her state of Wisconsin that just got extended until May 26 (https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-intl-04-16-20/h_b4f61150be9a4d0d6c7134a1406f2cbe).
"I spent 9 days in a medically induced coma, on a ventilator due to this virus. I spent another 9 days in the ICU having horrible hallucinations from the meds," Blomberg posted (https://www.facebook.com/leah.blomberg.9/posts/10215792864085909) on Facebook.
"I basically had to learn how to walk again due to muscle atrophy from being 100% bedridden for 2 weeks. I'M LUCKY TO BE ALIVE," the post continued. "Stay in your house. Take the money they government is giving you. ... Stop complaining and be thankful for your health. Thank you Governor Evers for caring more about our HEALTH than our WEALTH."
However, personally I have something positive to report after this day. In the very beginning of this, when i was most likely one of the very first wearing face masks in my home town (and back then it still was my black rubber- and plastic-half-frame mask) I caught some negative attention and mocking comments. Today at the baker a women in her mid-30s approached me, and stood apart from me 2m away, and said she wanted to apologize that she made some derogatory comment some weeks ago when she saw me back then. She apologized and said she was wrong and I was obviously recognising the danger earlier than her, but my looks somewhat shocked her back then. She was kind, really. I said I appreciate that she remembers it and stands by her role in the event, and that i also appreciate her apology and consider the event (which I did not even remember since I just have missed her comment back then) a thing of the past. I wished her to stay healthy, and we parted again.

Nice that such things also can happen, and that some people can learn.

My hometown's administration yesterday announced that from next Monday on covering mouth and nose with any kind of mask, filter or cloth beocmes mandatory i all shops, offices, poublic buildings, busses and trains, also on the public market in the open although they have scattred it quite far to increase distances between stands: the market now covers more than twice as much room than normally. Visitor numbers have gone down there, too, and by now I prefer it to buy some things than a closed supermarket hall with its stale air and ever-lasting clouds of aerosols.

A second baker has shut some weeks ago, sign in the door says "Sickness". In my street, two people were picked up by the medics in full isolation gear, from two houses, strangers to me, but damn close to my place. I knew three names around my age, from three different countries since over 15 years, with whom i had "internet relations" with playing correspondence chess, discussing things and debating via emails, old-fashioned correspondence friends, so to speak. Their voices have fallen silent, forever. Father of an old girlfriend of mine is one of the victims dying in elder care homes. Myself and my parents so far have remained unhit (or so we think, if we were sick, we did not realise it). Still, the pandemic has already marked several impacts in my social vicinity, so to speak. And we have just begun and are just out of the starting block. One or two years more to come. Makes you thinking.

Skybird

04-21-20, 03:29 PM

The german government mulls a new set of anti-Corona laws. Part of it is that testing capacities should be pushed with priority to doing 4.5 million tests per week.

:yeah:

Onkel Neal

04-21-20, 03:39 PM

She apologized and said she was wrong and I was obviously recognising the danger earlier than her, but my looks somewhat shocked her back then. She was kind, really. I said I appreciate that she remembers it and stands by her role in the event, and that i also appreciate her apology and consider the event (which I did not even remember since I just have missed her comment back then) a thing of the past. I wished her to stay healthy, and we parted again.

Nice. Also kudos to you for not being reactive to people who mocked you when they were ignorant.

August

04-21-20, 03:43 PM

Nice. Also kudos to you for not being reactive to people who mocked you when they were ignorant.

Well that is what he claims, but given the tone of his posts for the past couple of decades I seriously doubt it.

Skybird

04-21-20, 03:46 PM

Nice. Also kudos to you for not being reactive to people who mocked you when they were ignorant.
Michael Caine taught me that. :) He once said in an interview with a German paper that he were a man of terrible temper, and only practiced the gentlemenship and politeness he was famous for in order to keep it under strict control, always. I too have an awful temper, but I admit my control is not always perfect. Sometimes I fail.

However, in case of real self defence, failing this way works wonders. :D

mapuc

04-21-20, 04:03 PM

Here and among some expert, there have been a lot of critics against Sweden and the way they have handle this Corona Crisis.

Lately I have seen and heard expert saying Sweden may have picked the right way of tackling this crisis.

Some minutes ago I saw and issue on the news, where they said.

The Swedish authorities expect the citizens in the Capitol of Sweden, Stockholm will have developed an immunity and they expect this will have happen around May 1st.

Markus

Skybird

04-21-20, 05:24 PM

:yeah:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52371977

:salute:

Skybird

04-21-20, 05:39 PM

From FOCUS magazine this night, Google translation:
Study on malaria drug in Covid cases: no positive effect

Breaking News (22:07): A malaria drug advertised by US President Donald Trump has, according to a study, no positive effect on patients suffering from the lung disease Covid-19. Patients who received hydroxychloroquine had an even higher mortality rate than in the comparison group, according to a study that had not yet been verified by independent experts on Tuesday. This retrospectively looked at the data from 368 male Covid patients who had been treated in hospitals for US veterans until April 11th. 97 of the patients had been treated with hydroxychloroquine, 113 had received the antibiotic azithromycin, 158 others had neither.

The researchers said that larger and more robust studies including placebo groups on the use of the drug were currently underway. The results would only be available later. Therefore, the aim of their analysis was to provide current "findings on the clinical results", wrote the researchers led by Joseph Magagnoli, Siddharth Narendran and Felipe Pereira. This is also important in view of the significant side effects of the malaria drug.

Taking hydroxychloroquine or a combination with azithromycin did not reduce the likelihood of being connected to a ventilator, the study said. Patients who only received the malaria drug even had a significantly higher death rate, it said. The researchers said the general health of the patients was comparable. However, they restricted that especially patients with a more severe course of the disease would have received hydroxychloroquine.

Trump has repeatedly campaigned for the use of the active ingredient chloroquine, which has long been approved for other purposes. In combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, this "could be one of the greatest breakthroughs in the history of medicine," Trump campaigned around the end of March. Trump's own medical experts, however, stressed that there was as yet no reliable scientific evidence that the drug was effective in Covid 19 patients.

It has been repeatedly pointed out that members of Trumpman's inner circus have business ties to companies producing the drug, and so have an interest in selling it.

Skybird

04-21-20, 06:07 PM

^As above.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Rockstar

04-21-20, 07:49 PM

Hydroxychloroquin may still be administered by doctors and hospitals. For them its using whats available balancing the potential for benefit with the potential for harm. There are also other studies still being conducted as well none which have been peer reviewed.

None of the above decisions have anything to do with Trump, conspiracies theories, politics or mysterious big pharma buddies. I'll wait for a peer review paper on the subject to come out. The last place I'll go looking for confirmation of results are from talking heads on CNN, FOX or the New York Times.

Mr Quatro

04-21-20, 08:32 PM

From FOCUS magazine this night, Google translation:

It has been repeatedly pointed out that members of Trumpman's inner circus have business ties to companies producing the drug, and so have an interest in selling it.

You keep stirring it up Sky ... you just can't leave our President out of your postings ... Perhaps we need a Wuhan virus 2020 thread and a US Political thread and a blame Trump/Coronavirus thread :D

Rockstar

04-21-20, 09:10 PM

Still talking about hydroxychloroquin he even explains what the potential benefit MAY be. And I didn't hear him mention Trump, conspiracy theories about pharma buddies or politics once in the entire lecture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2A2xNLWR4

Catfish

04-22-20, 02:02 AM

Trump himself recommended hydroxychloroquin in his speeches and the press conferences, i plain doubt he had real information about it, just picked it up and spread the word.
That he has some business with the hydroxychloroquin industry does not make him more believable or look neutral in that matter, don't you think so? This is no "conspiracy theory" but rational thinking and common sense.

And no one would even mind that, if he would not always flog the dead horse of him being soo great and intelligent and a "genius". His brazenness and self aggrandising makes it hard to take him seriously or find him sympathetic, for the rest of the world. Only America seems to love that.
To see and understand that he is uninformed in so many things or at least does not know it all (what he himself always claims) is not a conspiracy theory, but plain truth.

If hydroxychloroquin is useful, use it. But politicians should stay the hell out of public advertising things they obviously do not understand.

@Jim: Sorry, but it seems it is impossible to divide the "Wuhan" virus and politics when politicians of nations like China and the USA (ab)use the virus to blame each other all the time, while trying hard to look as if they had the slightest glimpse of facts, and control.
Also this link https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52359100
Protesters against the lockdown:
"The organisers behind these protests have largely been conservative, pro-Trump and pro-gun activists. US media have described many of these demonstrations as reminiscent of Trump campaign events, with pro-Trump banners, t-shirts, and signs aplenty.
Signs calling for freedom over tyranny have also been staples of these protests. Governors have been likened to kings or dictators. "Give me liberty or give me death," a quote harkening back to the American Revolution has also been a popular mantra."
This is nothing else than "political".

Jimbuna

04-22-20, 05:50 AM

Parliament in Spain is debating whether to extend its lockdown by another two weeks. Spain has been one of the countries hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. Spain has recorded 435 deaths in the past 24 hours. This number, a slight increase on yesterday, brings their overall death toll to 21,717.

The mid-western state of Missouri files a civil lawsuit in a US court, accusing China of deception.

In Australia, the Chinese embassy accuses Australian politicians of anti-China attacks.

UK denies that not taking part in EU medical equipment scheme was a "political decision"

Singapore extends its "lockdown" until 1 June and tightens restrictions.

The World Food Programme says the virus could cause "biblical" famines.

New customers for Netflix almost double in the first quarter of the year.

Jimbuna

04-22-20, 06:14 AM

Latin America update:

In Brazil, tributes are being paid to 32-year-old doctor Frederic Jota Lima who died on Monday. Mass graves are being excavated for coronavirus victims in Manaus, which has reported 193 deaths and a collapsing health system. The number of infections in the country reached more than 43,000 on Tuesday, but some governors are easing social distancing measures.

Mexico reports an 8.3% increase in infections, rising to a total of 9,501 cases. 857 people have now died there. In Mexico City, 20% of public transport stops will close from Thursday, and most private cars will be banned from the roads.

Stranded Ecuadoran citizens abroad will be flown home and quarantined for 14 days, the government announces. Officials reported a further 902 deaths likely caused by Covid-19, in addition to the 520 officially confirmed in the country where bodies were seen piling up in Guayaquil. The government hopes to renegotiate its foreign debt and wants to re-open some commercial businesses as the economy continues to be hit hard by quarantine measures.

In Peru, the government has helped to transport 4,000 people made unemployed by the pandemic from the capital Lima home to their regions. Officials have warned stranded people not to return to the country’s highlands on foot.

And in Colombia, robots are going door-to-door to deliver parcels to quarantined residents of the city of Medellin, where a lockdown will continue until 11 May . The company who deployed the 120 robots say they are some of the first to be used in Latin America.

Skybird

04-22-20, 06:25 AM

After the UK made an accoridng announcement earlier this week, Germany becomes the second European country now starting with clinical trials on humans for a vaccine this week. German case numbers keep growing again, continuing the trend of the past couple of days. The Easter effect starts to form out.

Italian newpsaper La Republica tried to put things into relation regarding Germany. After the very aggressive diatribes from Italy and France against german "lack of solidarity" (unthankful bastards saying that), La Republica said that this Italian attitude is unfunded and simply ignores the many staepüs and fincial sacrifices Merkel has suddnely accepted without hesitation when it came to using new fincial mechnaisms that spill enormous sums of money into Italy's trasury and that before Corona the Germans had bitterly fought against. They said to just ignore this and always tell the narration if Germany not doing anythign and not caring, is unfair and undeserved. its simply not true.

Macroinman wants to abuse Corona to deflect from his own pltlical misery by enforcing again the collectivzation of French, Spanish, Italian and Greek debts and accusing germany to not beign solidaric. Unthankful bastard.

Its the same old story. If you are too weak to help others, they accuse you of not helping them. And if you are strong enough to help an you do so, you rise their envy and they again turn against you becasue you are stronger than they are, and show this by helping them. Its a loose-loose situation, always. :doh: The US surely knows this phenomenon as well.

Catfish

04-22-20, 06:26 AM

[...]
UK denies that not taking part in EU medical equipment scheme was a "political decision" [...]
:hmmm: what else.
"Coronavirus: UK says it won't take part in EU drive for ventilators because of Brexit"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/coronavirus-uk-wont-take-part-21759494

BoB (brexit over breathing) ahem

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-eu-equipment-nhs-a9429001.html

Skybird

04-22-20, 06:31 AM

I would add to Jim's comments on Latin america: the Arab countries. They are und double attack currently, and that has the potentila to maybe rip them apart. First, the virus, and second, the oil price and their state budget diving vertically due to that. Could be that the real Arab revolution, or "Spring", to use that stupid old euphemism, is still ahead of them, mulling to shake their socieites in their very fundaments. Outcome unclear, i dare no prediction. But the religious hardliners will play a very tough fist, no doubt, either by plain brutality, or by malicous underhandedness, sweet-greasing their way into people's hearts.

Skybird

04-22-20, 07:01 AM

The US issues warnings of a secnd wave in winter coinciding with ordinary flu pandemic. Comparable wawrning have been made by German experts last week already. A simulataneous event of flu pandemic and a second wave Covid 19 outbreak, would almost certainly overwhelm the health systems, US and Germany alike.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52378845

Such coinciding double pandemics are what makes the current inflation of demands to ease lockdowns prematurely and considering the pandemic being over its apex already, so irresponsible and potentially nation-wrecking. Earlier last week chancellor merkel is said to have turned "furiously" against what she named an "orgy of easing measurements". She confronted explicitly Mr. Laschet, Prime Minister of Northruhine Westphalia, until here a Merkel vasall and a hopefull for the chancel candidacy. That is the same grinning stupid who already helped to stirr the virus soup by preventing his state from banning Carnival (Düsseldorf, Cologne!) in February although back then Covid-19 already was present. He now is the spearhead of demanding ever more far reaching easings of the shutdown and lockdown regime, hoping that businessmen will then support him in elections. No other federal state has as many infections and cases , as Laschet's Northrhine Westphalia. Its also the state with the strongest regional CDU faction, and home of the German ground zero, Heinsberg. This morningn however somebody must have brought him back into line. After my hemetown now the whole state had declared a mandatory obligation to wear masks in public transportaiton and stores and public offices - as one of the last states doing so. Maybe somebody managed to squeeze the simple brutal mathematics into his brain. Would be about time.

Jimbuna

04-22-20, 07:46 AM

An RAF aircraft has landed in the UK with a delayed delivery of personal protective equipment (PPE) from Turkey amid a row over a shortage in the NHS.

The flight arrived at RAF Brize Norton in the early hours of Wednesday morning and is believed to contain up to about half of the promised kit.

Other RAF planes are said to be on standby to collect the rest.

The delivery was originally expected to arrive on Sunday, and had been due to include 400,000 surgical gowns.

It is not clear exactly what supplies the flight contained and no clear reason was given for the delay.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491

Probably because of not wanting to lose the remainder of the order.

Skybird

04-22-20, 08:34 AM

Found this in Der Tagesspiegel, and traced its English original back to here:

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/swedish-coronavirus-no-lockdown-model-proves-lethal-by-hans-bergstrom-2020-04

On why the Swedish "model" is most likely wrong and very costly.

It is too soon for a full reckoning of the effects of the “Swedish model.” The COVID-19 death rate is nine times higher than in Finland, nearly five times higher than in Norway, and more than twice as high as in Denmark [and according to Johns Hopkins University 2.8 times as high as in Germany at the time of writing that article, Skybird]. To some degree, the numbers might reflect Sweden’s much larger immigrant population, but the stark disparities with its Nordic neighbors are nonetheless striking. Denmark, Norway, and Finland all imposed rigid lockdown policies early on, with strong, active political leadership. Now that COVID-19 is running rampant through nursing homes and other communities, the Swedish government has had to backpedal. Others who may be tempted by the “Swedish model” should understand that a defining feature of it is a higher death toll.

Catfish

04-22-20, 08:40 AM

It seems wearing a mask in public stores etc. (not in "the open") will be mandatory everywhere in Germany from next monday (april 27th) on.
This does not mean that those who decided that have any knowledge, it is usually about not taking responsibility. But when only one infection less happens by doing this, it is already a success.

Rockstar

04-22-20, 08:46 AM

Trump himself recommended hydroxychloroquin in his speeches and the press conferences, i plain doubt he had real information about it, just picked it up and spread the word.
That he has some business with the hydroxychloroquin industry does not make him more believable or look neutral in that matter, don't you think so? This is no "conspiracy theory" but rational thinking and common sense.

If it might help then I recommend it too. Who wouldn't? In fact I recommend anything medical professionals think might work. But I dont for moment believe that when doctors and hospitals administer such medicines it has anything to do with mine or Trump's desires.

And no one would even mind that, if he would not always flog the dead horse of him being soo great and intelligent and a "genius". His brazenness and self aggrandising makes it hard to take him seriously or find him sympathetic, for the rest of the world. Only America seems to love that. and Only Germans insert politics into every subject? :roll: As an American and speaking for myself I can see past the politics and rhetoric. But its also pretty obvious to me some cant or dont know how too. Such is life.

@Jim: Sorry, but it seems it is impossible to divide the "Wuhan" virus and politics

It only seems impossible for some. Watch the video I posted you will see first hand a doctor on the front line. Speaking about the virus, precautions, and preventative medicines. Doing so without once inserting political bias, conspiracies or CNN into the conversation.

Onkel Neal

04-22-20, 08:47 AM

It seems wearing a mask in public stores etc. (not in "the open") will be mandatory everywhere in Germany from next monday on.
This does not mean that those who decided that have any knowledge, it is usually about not taking responsibility. But when only one infection less happens by doing this, it is already a success.

Yes agreed! And masks will be a helpful constant reminder to be on guard in social situations. We can all work together to keep this pandemic from becoming a holocaust. It's inconvenient but manageable.

Mr Quatro

04-22-20, 10:40 AM

Jimbuna

04-22-20, 12:07 PM

I heard this reported yesterday too, but I am not even a doctor and could guess this is going to happen. In fact I think early on I said what about next flu season how are you going to tell the difference.

Cough, cough, shortness of breath, runny nose :oops:

The only difference I hear is if you sneeze it's not Covid-19

Cheer up there will probably be another strain by Christmas anyway :hmmm:

PS I will be ready ... mask, aloe hand sanitizer, food, generator, wood chip barbecue, batteries, toilet paper

A second wave of coronavirus cases in the US could be even worse than the first, the country's top health official has warned.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield said the danger was higher as a fresh outbreak would likely coincide with the flu season.

It would put "unimaginable strain" on the US health care system, he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52378845

All of Germany's states have announced plans to make face masks compulsory to combat the spread of coronavirus.

Bremen became the final federal region to back the measures, with its senate set to confirm the decision on Friday.

Mask use will be compulsory on public transport throughout Germany, and nearly all states will also make face coverings mandatory when shopping.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52382196

Jimbuna

04-22-20, 12:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFt2rCeHe4k

Skybird

04-22-20, 02:30 PM

Focus Magazine today:

Wednesday, April 22nd, 2020, 19:26

His opinion is valued. It sounds all the more alarming that Christian Drosten now says: Germany is about to gamble away what has been achieved in the fight against corona. The virologist criticizes the store openings and sees fatal consequences if the manouverign space for interpretation of the new provisions is used.

The disappointment is hard to miss in his voice. In the past few weeks, virologist Christian Drosten has taken great pains to help contain the corona virus in Germany.

The well-known virologist appeared on various talk shows, spoke on the radio and recorded a podcast almost every day. Enlightening, instructing and very often also: warning.

All of this certainly contributed to the fact that Germany has actually developed a big lead over other countries in the fight against corona. “We are one of the very few countries worldwide where the numbers are really declining. As a large and transparent country, we are even lonely and absolute top ”, says Drosten in the NDR info podcast“ Das Coronavirus-Update ”from April 22nd.

But now, says the Berliner, "we're about to lose our lead." When Drosten then explains the reasons for his acceptance, he sounds concerned about the pictures he had to see on the past few days.

After the nationwide pandemic measures were recently relaxed and shops up to 800 square meters in size were allowed to reopen after weeks of closure, pictures of filled shops and well-frequented pedestrian zones were visible in many places.

Drosten is disappointed: “Now we see these stories of shopping malls that are busy again and are full of people. And why? Because every single shop is open under 800 square meters. And you have to ask yourself whether that really makes sense. I have to express my opinion for once. ”

The impressions of the past few days lead the 48-year-old to a grim forecast: Drosten says he would "not be surprised if we have a situation in May and June that we cannot control if we are not careful."

Although he also emphasizes that politicians and especially Chancellor Angela Merkel meant the new provisions “very well”, but: “If you loosen the measures or everyone starts to interpret your own scope of interpretation freely, new infection chains will start in many places in Germany . "

Drosten: "And then we have the serious effect of increasing diffusion into older population groups and triggering higher deaths per infection there."

Germany is currently in a very fragile area, Drosten believes when looking at the number of reproductions recently estimated by the Robert Koch Institute at 0.9 (infection rate per person), which has now risen again somewhat.

"Now we have to be careful that we stay below 1," warns Drosten, recalling a position paper by the Helmholzgemeinschaft that said that it could have been possible in Germany "to almost erase the outbreak and get to a range of 0.2, if the measures had only been continued for a few weeks. But politics decided against it. "
https://www.focus.de/gesundheit/news/wir-verspielen-unseren-vorsprung-deutschland-war-bei-corona-bekaempfung-einsame-spitze-jetzt-findet-drosten-wir-machen-alles-kaputt_id_11911783.html

mapuc

04-22-20, 04:14 PM

Ethnically imbalance

A majority of those who have died from this Corona virus in Stockholm, Sweden was from Somalia and the same goes in other major cities in Sweden, those who have died from Corona was foreigners.

The same is also happening in Denmark, a majority have been foreigners.

Right now(some hours ago) the majority who are in respirator are foreigners

Some said the cause of this could be:

1. Lack of understanding the language, unable to understand the guidelines the authorities have given its citizens

2. The way they live. Foreigners are more social in families.

From what I understand the same ethnically imbalance also occur in USA, England, Germany and other countries here in the West.

Markus

August

04-22-20, 04:27 PM

I would say that population density is the main determining factor. You pack humans together like sardines and any virus is bound to spread faster.

Skybird

04-22-20, 04:29 PM

^ To me the theory of reduced immunity system function due to dark skin producing less Vit-D is a very reasonable theory here. It has been mentioned severla times, and in videos, in this thread now. Even more so since Blacks and Hispanics are affected in the US as well, and these hardly can be explained by not understanding the dominant national language, English. Cultural habits and shorter social distances in more southern cultures may also play a role, however.

Jeff-Groves

04-22-20, 04:36 PM

Skybird

04-22-20, 04:50 PM

I consume Vit-D in winter mo nths since years, also moderate doses of Vit-C when I feel i may have catched a cold. A whole lot of people in the Northern hemisphere can be safely assumed to be Vit-D deficient, especially in Winter. Dark skinned people more so than brighter skinned. Or take the use of sun lotions and sun blockers, they too are a handicap for Vit-D production. Myself, I formed a sunlight allergy last year, very nasty I have to say, the itching nearly killed me. I now wear an ugly boonie hat with wide brim whenever I leave the house ( I am bald-headed), also wear a long-sleeved shirt with high UV protection over my T-Shirt, like an open jacket, even at high temperatures, and I have LSF 50 sun blocker in use on my neck, hands, and face. The latter will become real fun this year, regarding the masks. :-?

Smeary mess ahead, I fear. I sweat easily and a lot. Sun blocker, sweat, and on top of that a mask. Great. And a hygienics nightmare.

mapuc

04-22-20, 05:57 PM

Adding a link to my last comment

Early data of the Covid-19 crisis, broken down by race, is alarming. In the US, in Chicago, as of early April 2020, 72% of people who died of coronavirus were black, although only one-third of the city’s population is. In Georgia, as of 17 April, white people accounted for 40% of Covid-19 cases where race was reported, although they represent 58% of the state. In the UK, of the first 2,249 patients with confirmed Covid-19, 35% were non-white. This is much higher than the proportion of non-white people in England and Wales – 14%, according to the most recent census.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200420-coronavirus-why-some-racial-groups-are-more-vulnerable

Markus

vienna

04-22-20, 08:48 PM

Mr Quatro

04-22-20, 09:46 PM

Got curious and did a little research about Los Angeles County...

...a lesson in scale and perspective:

Total 2019 LA County Flu Deaths ....................77

Total 2019 LA County Homicides ....................513

Total 2020 LA County Covid-19 Deaths ...........729

Note the totals for the flu and homicide deaths reflect a 12 month period...

... the Covid-19 deaths reflect the months of Feb, Mar, and Apr 2019...

its only a flu. bro....

<O>

Would you consider this virus is a plague of sorts?

Did you see the run on food and basic supplies in March and April?

Did you feel the 3.8 earthquake in LA yesterday?

Did you know it has been reported that people are starving in Syria and North Korea with a run on food, but no food is to be found?

Would you call that a modern day famine?

Can you project a better future than the one we have now?

You know where I am going with this so I will stop and wait just like you ...

I hope the future gets better I really do :yep:

vienna

04-23-20, 12:09 AM

Would you consider this virus is a plague of sorts?

Did you see the run on food and basic supplies in March and April?

Did you feel the 3.8 earthquake in LA yesterday?

Did you know it has been reported that people are starving in Syria and North Korea with a run on food, but no food is to be found?

Would you call that a modern day famine?

Can you project a better future than the one we have now?

You know where I am going with this so I will stop and wait just like you ...

I hope the future gets better I really do :yep:

Sounds like some one has been binge watching those televangelists and their "end of time" rantings... :03:

Here in CA, we call a 3.8 a small nudge, so we don't sweat it at all; as for the rest, it all sounds bleak, but worse has happened before and we do get through it; history has shown that those who are presented with solvable problems and who act proactively to solve those problems get through a whole lot faster; those who wait for some sort of "prophecy" to play out tend to fare rather less well...

I'm sure things will get better... when we have leaders and people who effectively tackle the problems...

Denying the severity of a problem or saying it is some sort of "will" neither tackles nor solves the problems...

How does that go?... something about 'helping those who help themselves..."?...

You know where I am going with this...

The basic, provable fact is this is no "flu" and those who are trying to brush it off as such are either blind or ignorant of the facts. So far, the science has been right, the politics has been wrong, and actual action has proven to mitigate the disease; I trust the opinions of trained medical officials who have actual first hand knowledge and experience, not quack TV 'medical experts' or bloviating 'leaders' with their own agendas separate from the science; I did note today that the TV doctor, Dr. Oz has publicly reversed course on his opinions when it was found a purported "magic bullet", "game changer" cure was found to quite possibly even more deadly than the disease after more Vets in one area died using the drug than those who didn't:

Dr. Oz Backpedals on COVID-19 ‘Miracle’ Drug: ‘We Don’t Know’ if It Works --

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dr-oz-backpedals-on-coronavirus-miracle-drug-hydroxychloroquine-now-says-we-dont-know-if-it-works

There has been a lot of reckless tossing about of unproven, half-baked, medical "cures" or "treatments", a sort of modern day snake oil hustle and they should be treated with the same disregard as spam mail, particularly when lives are a stake. I do give Dr. Oz a couple of points for being adult enough to admit as publicly, as he did his former support, that he was wrong and that the degree of knowledge about the efficacy of such treatments does not warrant their wide spread use at this time...

<O>

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 06:22 AM

Dr Hans Kluge has urged European governments to prioritise testing for staff and residents of care homes.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been addressing lawmakers in Berlin
Mrs Merkel says Germany is ready to make "significantly higher" contributions to the EU budget.

It comes as EU leaders are expected to sign off on a rescue package for countries hardest-hit by the crisis.

China reports no new Covid-19 deaths for the eighth day in a row.

There were 10 new cases reported, and imported cases also fell.

Big Night In - a star-studded BBC fundraising telethon - takes place from 19:00 BST in the UK on Thursday.

Australia calls on G20 nations to ban wet wildlife markets over public health concerns.

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 06:34 AM

Latin America update

Peru is going to release about 3,000 prisoners who are most at risk of contracting coronavirus. The justice minister said pregnant inmates, those with children and those 70 and older would be among those given an amnesty.

Confirmed cases of coronavirus in Mexico have passed the 10,000 mark. Mexico's president says he will increase spending on social programmes and infrastructure projects by more than $25.6bn (£20.7bn) with the economy expected to contract by as much as 10% this year.

In Uruguay, hundreds of primary schools have reopened after staying closed for five weeks. But it is up to parents to decide whether they want to send their children back to school.

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 06:41 AM

Europe update

Germany's Angela Merkel has said the government is prepared to make "significantly higher" contributions to the EU budget. The extra money will help the 27-member bloc respond to the coronavirus pandemic, among others.

EU leaders meet via video from 13:00 GMT on Thursday and are set to sign off a €540bn (£470bn; $575bn) emergency fund to protect European workers, businesses and those countries worst hit by the outbreak.

Bosnia-Herzegovina is one of the few countries that has stopped children going outside, Now its top court says measures restricting freedom of movement for children and pensioners are unconstitutional. Authorities have five days to lift them.

Spain has seen a slight rise in fatalities - 440 in the past 24 hours - bringing the national toll to 22,157. Another 4,635 infection cases have been reported.

Belgium has reported another 230 deaths in the past 24 hours, mostly in care homes. The number of people in intensive care has fallen below 1,000

Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin has begun working from home because an employee at her official residence came into contact with someone who had coronavirus . Ms Marin, 34, has a two-year-old daughter and has no symptoms herself.

Turkey has begun a four-day lockdown across 31 provinces. Some stores and workers are exempt from the curfew.

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 10:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-84xivxqUmQ

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 10:53 AM

Health Secretary Matt Hancock will give UK government briefing at 17:00 BST

WHO reveals 'deeply concerning' estimate that half of European Covid-19 deaths occurred in care homes.

US unemployment claims hit 26.4 million - more than 15% of the workforce.

US House to vote on $484bn (£390bn) stimulus package, with funds for small businesses and virus testing.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel warns crisis 'still just at the beginning'

Merkel says Germany is ready to make "significantly higher" contributions to the EU budget.

Jimbuna

04-23-20, 01:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS7xlcHbfNc

Skybird

04-23-20, 02:51 PM

A new US study, currently in peer review, puts a number on the question of how long the virus lives in fine aerosols that are being simply breathed out. 16 hours, they showed in the lab. Even if it is a laboratory situation with a controlled environment, this should not be dismissed easily. Especially when combining it with earlier results from other studies showing that fine aerosols from breathing stay floating in the sky for minutes and hours.

You do not want to walk unprotected through the jetstream of the person before you. Position yourself not just behind but also to the side and in accordance with the wind, I say.

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 02:58 PM

You do not want to walk unprotected through the jetstream of the person before you. Position yourself not just behind but also to the side and in accordance with the wind, I say.
I learned that long ago due to body odor!
:o:haha:

mapuc

04-23-20, 03:12 PM

So far 856000 have been infected by Corona in USA and so far 47000 have died from this Covid-19 or indirectly from Covid-19.

This give, if I have done it right a percentage approx 5.5 %

This is high number, the real numbers of infected must be a lot higher if this death ratio shall be lower than 3.3 %

Edit I toke a look at Denmark and Sweden.

The percentage in Denmark is 4.9 %
(Infected 8073, Death 394)

In Sweden the death percentage is 12 %.
(Infected 16755, Death 2021)
End edit

Markus

Rockstar

04-23-20, 04:01 PM

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Response-to-Magagnoli.pdf

Response to Magagnoli, MedRxiv, 2020Matthieu MILLION1,2, Yanis ROUSSEL1,2, Didier RAOULT1,21IHU-Méditerranée Infection, Marseille, France2Aix Marseille Univ, IRD, AP-HM, MEPHI, Marseille, FranceIn the current period, it seems that passion dominates rigorous and balanced scientific analysis and may lead to scientific misconduct. The article by Magagnoli et al. (Magagnoli, 2020) is an absolutely spectacular example of this. Indeed, in this work, it is concluded, in the end, that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) would double the mortality in patients with COVID with a fatality rate of 28% (versus 11% in the NoHCQ group), which is extraordinarily hard to believe. The analysis of the data shows two major biases, which show a wellingto be convinced before starting the work : The first is that lymphopenia is twice as common in the HCQ groups (25% in the HCQ, 31% in the HCQ+AZ group versus 14% in the no HCQ group, p =.02) and there is an absolute correlation between lymphopenia(<0.5G/L) and fatality rate, which is well known (Tan, 2020) and confirmed here : 28% deaths, 22%and 11% in the HCQ, HCQ+AZ and No HCQgroup, respectively. Lymphopenia is the most obvious criterion of patient severity (in our cohort, lymphocytes in dead individuals(n=22, mean ± standard deviation, 0.94 ± 0.45), versus in the living (n=2405, 1.79 ± 0.84, p < .0001)). As the authors acknowledge, the severity of the patients in the different groups was very different, and their analysis can only make sense if there is a selection of patients with the same degree of severity, i.e. the same percentage of lymphopenia. The second major bias is that in an attempt to provide meaningful data, by eliminating the initial severity at the time of treatment, two tables are shown: one table where drugs are prescribed before intubation, and which shows no significant difference in the 3 different groups (9/90 (10%) in the HCQ group, 11/101 (10. 9%) HCQ+AZ, and 15/177 (8.5%) in the group without HCQ, chi-square = 0.47, ddl = 2, p = 0.79), and one table, where it is not clear when the drugs were prescribed, where there are significant differences. These differences are most likely related to the fact that the patients had been intubated for some before receiving hydroxychloroquine in desperation. It is notable that this is unreasonable at the time of the cytokine storm, as it is unlikely that hydrochloroquine alone would be able to control patients at this stage of the disease.Moreover, incomprehensibly, the “untreated”group actually received azithromycin in 30% of cases, without this group being analyzedin any distinct way. Azithromycin is also a proposed treatment for COVID(Gautret, 2020)with in vitroefficacy (Andreani, 2020), and to mix it with patients who are supposedly untreated is something that is closer to scientific fraud than reasonable analysis. Altogether these 3 voluntary biases are all pushing to the idea of dangerosity of hydroxychloroquine safest drug as reported on nearly 1 million people (Lane, 2020). All in all, this is a work that shows that, in this period, it is possible to propose things that do not stand up to any methodological analysis to try to demonstrate that one is right.

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 04:56 PM

You lost me at "Response to Magagnoli"
And now I have a head ache!
:/\\!!

Skybird

04-23-20, 05:09 PM

FED is about to inflatedollar "money" volume with book money free of any material safety by 13%.

Thats as if I pay the baker by telling him "See you!"

13% more dollars in the world.

I will laugh tears when the easyminded again see stocks prices and prices for arts and property going up and then claim that this means that wealth is growing and the stocks market does well and booms. :har: They have not understood alreadsy the last stocks bubble.

The EU has agreed a biblical aid package, too, should be paid out via EU budgets that for that purpose gets boosted up. The ECB should provide this with according buying of toxic bonds and papers as "safeties", which means Maastricht has now gotten the last nail in its coffin and the laws strictly prohibiting state finacing by the ECB has been officially and with acceptance of Germany beeing slaughtered. All principles of fiscal discipline and national self-responsibility or budgets policy and debts, have been abandoned, all of them. They simply do no longer exist. In the US, this is the case since decades anyway.

The complete fundament on which the Euro once was claimed to have been founded on, now is officially buried.

Its state-wanted money devaluation at its maximum. Debts will become the new bartering currency. Payment will become a word rendered meaningless.

Not that anything of this is surprising, it was perfectly forseeable. I just hate to be right.

There are no more escape hatches left, except gold. I wonder when they prohibit private owning of it again.

Be advised that the cash you hold, at just any moment can be declared invalid now. This month. Next year, in five years, or 8 years and 4 months and 2 weeks and 6 days. Anytime.

States that reserve a minting monople for themselves, should immediately be declared war on by the population, and brought down. Else they bring the people down: every damn single time, with not one known historical exception so far.

August

04-23-20, 05:59 PM

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Response-to-Magagnoli.pdf

Response to Magagnoli, MedRxiv, 2020
Matthieu MILLION1,2, Yanis ROUSSEL1,2, Didier RAOULT1
IHU-Méditerranée Infection, Marseille, France
Aix Marseille Univ, IRD, AP-HM, MEPHI, Marseille, France

In the current period, it seems that passion dominates rigorous and balanced scientific analysis and may lead to scientific misconduct. The article by Magagnoli et al. (Magagnoli, 2020) is an absolutely spectacular example of this. Indeed, in this work, it is concluded, in the end, that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) would double the mortality in patients with COVID with a fatality rate of 28% (versus 11% in the NoHCQ group), which is extraordinarily hard to believe. The analysis of the data shows two major biases, which show a welling to be convinced before starting the work.

The first is that lymphopenia is twice as common in the HCQ groups (25% in the HCQ, 31% in the HCQ+AZ group versus 14% in the no HCQ group, p =.02) and there is an absolute correlation between lymphopenia(<0.5G/L) and fatality rate, which is well known (Tan, 2020) and confirmed here : 28% deaths, 22%and 11% in the HCQ, HCQ+AZ and No HCQgroup, respectively. Lymphopenia is the most obvious criterion of patient severity (in our cohort, lymphocytes in dead individuals(n=22, mean ± standard deviation, 0.94 ± 0.45), versus in the living (n=2405, 1.79 ± 0.84, p < .0001)). As the authors acknowledge, the severity of the patients in the different groups was very different, and their analysis can only make sense if there is a selection of patients with the same degree of severity, i.e. the same percentage of lymphopenia.

The second major bias is that in an attempt to provide meaningful data, by eliminating the initial severity at the time of treatment, two tables are shown: one table where drugs are prescribed before intubation, and which shows no significant difference in the 3 different groups (9/90 (10%) in the HCQ group, 11/101 (10. 9%) HCQ+AZ, and 15/177 (8.5%) in the group without HCQ, chi-square = 0.47, ddl = 2, p = 0.79), and one table, where it is not clear when the drugs were prescribed, where there are significant differences. These differences are most likely related to the fact that the patients had been intubated for some before receiving hydroxychloroquine in desperation. It is notable that this is unreasonable at the time of the cytokine storm, as it is unlikely that hydrochloroquine alone would be able to control patients at this stage of the disease.

Moreover, incomprehensibly, the “untreated”group actually received azithromycin in 30% of cases, without this group being analyzedin any distinct way. Azithromycin is also a proposed treatment for COVID(Gautret, 2020)with in vitroefficacy (Andreani, 2020), and to mix it with patients who are supposedly untreated is something that is closer to scientific fraud than reasonable analysis.

Altogether these 3 voluntary biases are all pushing to the idea of dangerosity of hydroxychloroquine safest drug as reported on nearly 1 million people (Lane, 2020).

All in all, this is a work that shows that, in this period, it is possible to propose things that do not stand up to any methodological analysis to try to demonstrate that one is right.

Fixed it so it is readable and highlighted a couple good parts.

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 06:03 PM

I just hate to be right.

No you don't!
You love bringing it up when you are right.
You show narcissistic traits quite often.
Me? I do try hard to show developmental disabilities.
I am a low level sufferer of Autism.
My Son is also the same with some symptoms above mine.

Reece

04-23-20, 06:53 PM

I am a low level sufferer of Autism.
My Son is also the same with some symptoms above mine.

Likewise, both my son and daughter have the same sort of issues!! :doh:

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 07:15 PM

Well I'm a VERY low level.
I function well aside from not being very out going.
I am kind of idiot savant on Hex editing.
My Son has a very successful business and functions very well.
But I see him do things like tap his fork 3 times before he eats.
Like me? He divides his plate which I never knew was a sign of being
"Just a bit different"
I am obsessive compulsive when it comes to equipment in the business.
At 62 years old? I can recall places we have done work for the last 15 years.
I can hear a name of a Town I have been in and tell you things as if I was there yesterday.

Would you like me to tell you about Neal's home in PearLand from back in 2005?

Rockstar

04-23-20, 07:34 PM

https://youtu.be/fn2yk5SbGiw

Mr Quatro

04-23-20, 07:37 PM

Sky has been around a lot longer than I have and he has some good thoughts about how to survive a complete shut down and how to keep your information private and how to ride a bicycle and take photos at the same time and many other good things. :up:

It's just these quirky thoughts he has about President Trump that I find offensive, but hey I vote we keep him as a member , okay? :yep:

Now about our children with problems ... my son too writes his letters backwards, but yet he has perfect vision ... go figure.

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 07:49 PM

I do like to read what Skybird posts.
Think I've said that before more than once.
I also enjoy poking a bit of fun at him or pointing out some things that just touch me wrong.
Now if it touches me wrong? That don't make me right!
At times I have to remember english is not his native tongue.
I had that problem with Anvart until I took the time to understand him.
Being Skybird was in the field of messing with peoples minds?
I figure he has me pegged but is polite enough not to point it out.

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 07:58 PM

Now about our children with problems ... my son too writes his letters backwards, but yet he has perfect vision ... go figure.
That may be a form of dyslexia.
Now here's what blows people away!
I can read upside down text, backwards written text, mirrored text, or reversed text, just as if it was a standard written text.
Test your self once. Are you normal? Or special?

Jeff-Groves

04-23-20, 08:10 PM

Now let us go out to realm of Buggy Buggy.
What IF this virus is aimed at traits encoded into our DNA?
Say you can read upside down and don't get the virus?
Can you read at all? Could be a factor.
:hmmm:

Mr Quatro

04-23-20, 10:11 PM

Now here's what blows people away!
I can read upside down text, backwards written text, mirrored text, or reversed text, just as if it was a standard written text.
Test your self once. Are you normal? Or special?

Good grief Jeff you must be from Mars or something :o

I don't know anyone that can do that :yep:

Define normal?

Meanwhile I think Covid-19 is going to hide somewhere and then bite us in the butt by Thanksgiving/Christmas :yep:

TP for Christmas presents :up:

vienna

04-24-20, 02:49 AM

That may be a form of dyslexia.
Now here's what blows people away!
I can read upside down text, backwards written text, mirrored text, or reversed text, just as if it was a standard written text.
Test your self once. Are you normal? Or special?

I'm dyslexic myself and have the same reading ability you describe; I discovered the ability early on in Catholic school when I was called into the Principal?Mother Superior's office for some transgression or other; just after I sat down in the seat in front of the desk, she got a phone call, and while she was talking, I noticed a paper on her desk I presumed to be about me and I wanted to know what it said; to my surprise, I found it very easy to read; I kept the ability a secret since I felt it offered me some small advantage, and I did use it many times in my working life; I also found I could easily write block print letters and numbers (never was able to do the same with script) upside down and backwards with ease...

The news today in Los Angeles is the toal number of Covid-19 deaths now exceed the total of deaths attributed to flu, heart diseases, and lung diseases combined...

...but, hey, its just a flu...

On a more encouraging note, the Jet Porpulsion Lab at CalTech in Pasadena, just adjacent to LA, has been working on a new ventilator design for use specifically for Covid-19 cases, but also usable in other cases:

NASA Develops COVID-19 Prototype Ventilator in 37 Days --

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7646

According to TV news reports here in LA, JPL built the device with only 80 parts, a fraction of the number of current devices, used parts mainly able to be found in existing supply chains, and at a cost one-tenth that of existing devices...

The video below is part of the raw footage from which the YT video in the article was derived and shows a bit more of the design process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z83H1yMRV3M

You put talented, knowledgeable, qualified, creative people to work on a specific problem and you more often than not get solid results...

<O>

Skybird

04-24-20, 04:31 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177

Verfluchter scheißdämlicher Trottel. :/\\!! :arrgh!:

Is there a law in the US that rules how dumb and stupid you at least have to be in order to qualify for the job of POTUS?

If they ever make an autopsy after he became dead, I mean deader than he already is, and if they open his skull, they probably only find rotting mildew.

I start to think of David Niven and the Pink Panther movies.

"I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what." Right there, buddy, the cream always belongs on top .

vienna

04-24-20, 04:58 AM

As I've said before, I have full and complete confidence he will say or do something between now and the Election that will tank his reelection bid...

Aside from the should be obvious consequences of using caustic/toxic disinfectant chemicals internally, his other suggestion of somehow using ultra-violet (UV) light internally is equally as deranged; I do recall having read over the years that among the many possible ill-effects of UV, one was the suppression of the immunize system when UV is used to treat internal organs; I recall the question came up when it was suggested UV could be used to destroy cancer cells in the body which might sound, on its face, reasonable to some extent, the fact UV is sometimes the cause of some cancers (e.g., skin cancer), it, like many other proposed topical internal 'cures', may actually damage or destroy healthy cells and/or tissues; and the suppression of the body's immune system by UV would render a patient less able to use its own defenses to aid in fighting off the malignancy...

The really big fear I have is some of his lemming supporters may actually try to inject themselves with or ingest disinfectants based on his deranged musings and declarations; he's already got the blood of one of his followers on his hands...

...and, no ,there is no law or requirement(s) on the books pertaining to the sanity or intelligence of someone seeking the office of POTUS: as we are seeing, any idiot stupid fool can one day become POTUS...

Trust doctors, not politicians, about your medicine and health...

<O>

Skybird

04-24-20, 05:29 AM

The really big fear I have is some of his lemming supporters may actually try to inject themselves with or ingest disinfectants based on his deranged musings and declarations;
Actually that is none of my fears, actually I tend to encourage them. Never before in history would so much have been learned by so many in such short ammount of time. :D

vienna

04-24-20, 05:33 AM

So, are you quoting the Great "Very Stable Genius" himself...

..."What have you got to lose?"...

<O>

Skybird

04-24-20, 05:47 AM

The taste of the next thing to come. "Surviving in what was left of the before".

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/24/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-business-life-intl-hnk/index.html

Skybird

04-24-20, 05:57 AM

No you don't!
You love bringing it up when you are right.

Actually you are right, I do not kid you, and I claim a very valid explanation to excuse my behaviour. Because in past and earlier years I have been so often ridiculed for something I pointed out, which in later times showed to nevertheless have become real and true, that I indeed made it a habit to point it out now when I have been right on something I said in the past. Its a wanted reaction of mine that I have actively decided for. So, I am fully aware of it.

Its not just narcissism, as you claimed, but its just an angry overload dose of "payback sentiment" in me. I now enjoy it indeed to rub others into their nose when once again I got something right while the just laughed. Maybe this does not make me any more sympathetic to some, but after all I am just as human as others. And different to what moral and law philosophers claim to be acceptable, revenge sometimes can offer quite some satisfaction.

u crank

04-24-20, 06:02 AM

The really big fear I have is some of his lemming supporters may actually try to inject themselves with or ingest disinfectants based on his deranged musings and declarations; he's already got the blood of one of his followers on his hands...

Of course the truth is somewhat different.

First and quite importantly, President Trump is not on record telling anyone to ingest fish tank cleaner. Some people are their own worst enemies.

And even more important, these people were not Trump supporters. In fact the wife donated to various Democratic causes.

..including Wanda's numerous donations to Democrats as recently as February. In that month, Wanda donated to the PAC 314 Action Fund, which has called itself the "pro-science resistance" to the White House.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/arizona-woman-fish-tank-cleaner-trump-democrat

Federal Election Commission records reviewed by the outlet revealed numerous other recipients of Wanda's cash, including Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the pro-choice EMILY's List.

Perhaps it is a case where the dreaded TDS has caused people to do something irrational? Hard to say. More likely just plain stupidity. After all the container had a warning label on it.

As for Trump having blood on his hands. Really? What then of Pelosi, Cuomo and the extensive list of politicians and news media types of both political stripes who are on record saying things that were not in the best interest of public safety? Guilty as well?

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 06:38 AM

Would you like me to tell you about Neal's home in PearLand from back in 2005?

Try 2008 :03:

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 06:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9EaRFQ_pYI

Catfish

04-24-20, 06:44 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 [...]
To be true Trump did not propose to inject fish tank cleaner, he just asked if some light therapy could be possible. Problem is he called a theoretical light therapy a "disinfectant" to inject, and once more some people may misunderstand that.
(Inject sunlight maybe, or we could swallow UV lamps, or chew light bulbs.)

And then he said "I am the president and you are fake news".
Please, stop posting Fox news or Breitbart as an argument or reason for your opinion. They are misleading and lying, they have zero credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/25/fox-news-watching-what-i-learned
For once read and at least consider it.

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 06:51 AM

The UK is widening access to coronavirus testing but the government website struggles to meet demand and has closed.

US President Donald Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment – a highly dangerous idea that has sparked outcry from medics.

Most Muslims will observe the holy month of Ramadan by fasting under lockdown but clerics in some countries push back.

South Africa to ease lockdown restrictions from 1 May - some businesses and schools to reopen.

EU leaders agree to inject billions of euros of emergency aid into Europe's struggling economies.

Czech Republic announces it will reopen borders closed since 16 March.

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 07:00 AM

The UK's Department of Health has apologised after its new coronavirus testing website closed to applications hours after it launched.

Labour is calling on the UK government to "urgently" tell the British public about the different options for easing the lockdown.

Transport for London (TfL), which runs the Tube and other public transport in the capital, is to furlough 7,000 employees to save about £15.8m every four weeks.

A small number of "irresponsible and selfish people" are "repeatedly and wilfully" flouting coronavirus lockdown rules, according to Police Scotland.

RB, the makers of Dettol and Lysol, warns against any internal use of the products.

Some promising news from Spain, where the number of new coronavirus-related deaths has dropped to the lowest daily level in over a month.

The Czech government has lifted a ban on free movement from today allowing groups of up to 10 outside.

Poland’s education minister Dariusz Piatkowski has said the government has decided to extend the closure of schools, pre-schools and universities for one more month, until 24 May.

u crank

04-24-20, 07:37 AM

Please, stop posting Fox news or Breitbart as an argument or reason for your opinion. They are misleading and lying, they have zero credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/25/fox-news-watching-what-i-learned
For once read and at least consider it.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Fox News but ....

Why Does MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace Get a Pass for Expressing Political Opinions Anchoring a News Show?

Fox News is an easy punching bag, particularly for journalists, researchers, and commentators on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but a great hypocrisy is at work.

Whereas Fox News is held under the most intense scrutiny, unable to significantly deviate from strict separation of church and state for fear of immense media and advertiser backlash, liberal outlets are by and large given a free pass, their injection of progressive opinion or Democratic talking points into news and analysis overlooked (or even celebrated).

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/why-does-msnbcs-nicolle-wallace-get-a-pass-for-expressing-political-opinions-anchoring-a-news-show/

And from Ms. Wallace just today while interviewing Joe Biden’s Wuhan coronavirus advisor Ron Klain on her 'news program'.

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/nicolle-wallaces-silver-lining-deadly-virus-its-hurting-trump-0

"And I wonder what you think about whether or not there’s some silver lining there, that some of the things that we’ve been talking about for three years may be finally catching up with him?”

Here is a MSNBC news anchor finding a 'silver lining' in the deaths of 50,000 Americans. Is that straight news or political opinion? Hardly matters. It's disgusting and shows the degree to which anti Trump journalists have lost their way.

Catfish

04-24-20, 07:59 AM

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 08:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gerQpTFIndI

u crank

04-24-20, 09:36 AM

^ To that i can only say that in 1984 there were around 50 News agencies in the US, and now there are FIVE.
Not none of them will protest against a war any more. See beyond the red and the blue, partisanship will not be the solution for anything.

I could not agree more. The only way to get some degree of the truth is to read from both sides of the street and not be a slave to any one provider of information.

vienna

04-24-20, 11:32 AM

^ Amen to that.

Just a bit ago, the FDA issued a warning regarding the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine in treating Covid-19, particularly in out-patient situations:

FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported --

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html

It should be noted in the very last paragraph of the above article, reference is made to a French study of hydroxychloroquine; the authors of the French study publicly walked back their findings citing the insufficient scope of their own research within about a week after hydroxychloroquine was being touted as a "magic bullet" and their study being cited as evidence of its efficacy...

If I were the Head of the FDA now, I'd start looking for another job...

Who knows? Maybe they'll fill his post with a cat breeder...

This just in:

As I was slowly typing the above, news has just broken that US researchers studying the use and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine have ceased their trials citing a "“primary outcome” of death" as the reason for the cessation:

Citing a ‘primary outcome’ of death, researchers cut chloroquine coronavirus study short over safety concerns --

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronavirus-citing-a-primary-outcome-of-death-researchers-cut-chloroquine-study-short-over-safety-concerns.html

Citing a “primary outcome” of death, researchers cut short a study testing anti-malaria drug chloroquine as a potential treatment for Covid-19 after some patients developed irregular heart beats and nearly two dozen died after taking doses daily.

Scientists say the findings, published Friday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, should prompt some degree of skepticism from the public toward enthusiastic claims and perhaps “serve to curb the exuberant use” of the drug, which has been touted by President Donald Trump as a potential “game changer” in the fight against the coronavirus.

<O>

vienna

04-24-20, 11:41 AM

More about the White House efforts to foist hydroxychloroquine as a "cure":

“Really Want to Flood NY and NJ”: Internal Documents Reveal Team Trump’s Chloroquine Master Plan --

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/internal-documents-reveal-team-trumps-chloroquine-master-plan

Off on the horizon... Is that the sound of public Congressional inquiries and hearings rustling in the wind?...

<O>

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 02:20 PM

New York's governor says his state is on downside of the curve but warns against reopening prematurely.

The number of deaths in the US has passed 50,000, according to Johns Hopkins University.

White House says Donald Trump's remarks on disinfectants were taken out of context.

Doctors and a disinfectant firm issued warnings after he suggested injecting disinfectant.

UK testing website to reopen after having to close temporarily, after 16,000 booked appointments.

Another 768 hospital patients have died with coronavirus in the UK - health ministry.

Global leaders launch WHO initiative to speed up development of vaccines, drugs and tests.

Most Muslims will observe the holy month of Ramadan by fasting under lockdown.

Jimbuna

04-24-20, 02:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypsUIh41xUw

August

04-24-20, 03:46 PM

US President Donald Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment – a highly dangerous idea that has sparked outcry from medics.

He did not say that.

Skybird

04-24-20, 03:48 PM

The German Corona team at the Charité Berlin found something. From Focus magazine.

In the fight against the corona virus, virologist Christian Drosten and his scientific colleagues from the Berlin Charité have reported interesting discoveries. According to Drosten, it cannot be ruled out that certain previous illnesses can lead to immunity to the coronavirus. The virologist said in the NDR podcast "The Coronavirus Update on April 24th.

In a study, his team examined T cells, i.e. blood cells that serve the immune defense. T cells from previously healed COVID-19 patients and from patients who have not yet been infected were examined.

"Surprisingly, it was seen that 34 percent of the patients had reactive T cells, even though they had never been in contact with the SARS-2 virus," says Drosten.

The virologist explains that there is a structural similarity between the four common cold coronaviruses known to affect humans and the new SARS-COV-2 virus.

A previous illness with one of these four viruses could be an explanation for a so-called background immunity against the new coronavirus.

Drosten spoke of the first such observation worldwide, but also warned against over-interpreting the results. Under no circumstances should one conclude that a third of the population is immune.

Further explanations for mild or asymptomatic courses are also that the affected people got fewer viruses in the beginning or are in better shape overall.

Nothing will change in the number of those who die, after all it is an observation of reality. And a background immunity is already included in this.

Drosten: "It is not the case that one can always derive something from such simple scientific information for the course of the epidemic and the fate of the pandemic in Germany."

Drosten then also spoke of keeping the infection rate at a factor of 1 still a big goal. That would mean that every infected person infects about one more person. Of course, this would not result in a standstill.

A position paper by the Helmholz community suggests that it would have been possible to reduce this factor to 0.2, which could have led to the virus being reduced or even wiped out in Germany.

However, this would have required further strict measures in special areas such as hospitals or retirement homes.
https://www.focus.de/gesundheit/news/kampf-gegen-virus-virologe-drosten-entscheidungsrhythmus-der-politik-im-kampf-gegen-corona-etwas-zu-kurz-in-der-bewertung_id_11921089.html

Catfish

04-24-20, 03:55 PM

I seriously think the partial opening of the lockdown in Germany was done much too early. Infection numbers are already on the rise again :o

Meanwhile, the first test of a clinical vaccine has been conducted by Biontech, on 200 voluntary 18 to 55 year old participants. Much too early to see any result yet. Next test group will comprise 500 participants.
Even if it worked perfectly, it would become 2021 to be used for a general vaccination.

Skybird

04-24-20, 04:16 PM

I seriously think the partial opening of the lockdown in Germany was done much too early. Infection numbers are already on the rise again :o

Yep, I fear the same, considering how many careless or irresponsibly acting people I still can see whenever I step before the door of my house. Add to this populists like Laschet and Lindner, the first famous for inspiring this year's Corona Carnival and wanting to foster his image to be oh so affable, and the latter for his implication that the virus marches to the drums of business agendas, and the projection for the the future points at only one worrysome direction.

The Chinese and Koreans and Singaporeans already are in a relatively desperate defense battle against the second wave, it seems. And they started much better than us Europeans and Germans. While the Japanese and Swedes sink deeper and deeper into the swamp they hoped they would avoid by their special ways.

mapuc

04-24-20, 05:13 PM

Same here in Denmark. Last week the government decided to open the door a little bit and now there's an increase of infected.

Yesterday the numbers of infected was 8073 today it's 8210. 137 in 24 hours and this will go up.

There may be two reason for this.

They have expanded the testing

The Warm spring have made lots of people gathering together in groups more than 10 people.

Then there are those who couldn't care less about their next.

Markus

Skybird

04-24-20, 07:13 PM

You are listing the totals there, Mapuc. The daily new cases are what are interesting.

The case number will continue to grow anyway for weeks and months to come.

The daily new cases are what allows comparison to whether the growth in totals is accelerating or deccelerating. But growign it will anyway. QWuesiton is at what speed.

;)

And then there is the currently active cases, which have declined in Denmark since several days. ;)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

August

04-24-20, 07:39 PM

Herd Immunity.

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 05:03 AM

I was reading this article earlier and pray he is correct.

Coronavirus dies out within 70 days no matter how we tackle it, claims professor

Across the globe, debate is raging about the best way to tackle the spread of coronavirus, with countries adopting radically different approaches in the fight against the disease.

But an Israeli professor claims all efforts will lead to the same result, because the disease is self-limiting and largely vanishes after 70 days – with or without any interventions.

Professor Isaac Ben-Israel, the head of the security studies programme at Tel Aviv University and the chairman of the National Council for Research and Development, claims his analysis proves that Covid-19 peaks at 40 days before rapidly declining.

Major General Ben-Israel, who was also head of the analysis and assessment division of the Israeli Air Force Intelligence Directorate and former chief Cybernetics adviser to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, claims shutting down major economies is having devastating consequences for little gain....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/23/coronavirus-dies-within-70-days-no-matter-tackle-claims-professor/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1240095&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Loy_Dig_Acq_Election_0-9MEngagement&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Loy_Dig_Acq_Election_0-9MEngagement20200425&utm_campaign=DM1240095

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 05:09 AM

More than 2.8 million cases have been confirmed globally and more than 197,000 people have died, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Nearly 60 new cases have been recorded among the crew of an Italian-registered cruise ship docked in Japan's Nagasaki.

Thousands in Australia and New Zealand have marked Anzac Day. With mass gatherings banned, households marked the day of remembrance on their driveways.

US President Donald Trump walked out of a shorter-than-usual daily press conference, refusing to take questions from journalists. He has faced controversy after he suggested injecting disinfectant could be beneficial to coronavirus patients.

In India, the government has allowed neighbourhood stores to reopen. The interior ministry said only 50% of staff should work and they should follow social distancing measures and wear masks.

Bookings on the UK government’s website for key workers to apply for coronavirus tests were filled within an hour of it reopening on Saturday - apart from some in Scotland.

Skybird

04-25-20, 05:18 AM

I was reading this article earlier and pray he is correct.
I saw it as well, but left it without forming an opinion. Its not a testable theory he has, just an observation he claims.

Meanwheile the WHO right now, live claims once again there is no evidence that making it thoruzgn the desease and bein alive produces any form of immunity. You can get reinfected by it, they say.

Well, its the WHO saying it, so I take it with a grain of salt - but still....

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 06:50 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmfd13tqLg

August

04-25-20, 07:08 AM

Actually that is none of my fears, actually I tend to encourage them. Never before in history would so much have been learned by so many in such short ammount of time. :D

So now you are wishing we'd all just commit suicide eh? What a piece of work you are. :nope:

Skybird

04-25-20, 09:00 AM

It seems the report on the WHO saying there is no immunity from Corvid19 may be a case of miscommunication, kind of. What they apparently intended to communicate is that the ideas of issuing certificates of recovery after being tested for antibodies may not give the ammount of informaiton vlaue and informaiton valdity that some people imply (due to the already discussed limitations of antibody tests and their still existing lack of reliability).

This confusion is made even worse due to German-typical translation issues ("kein Nachweis einer Immunität" is a misleading terminology here, and could mean both the lack of evidence for a demonstrated immunity as well as a formal non-certification of an immunity).

kraznyi_oktjabr

04-25-20, 09:43 AM

He did not say that.If he did not say that, what he said? What Jimbuna posted is basically what everyone around the world is reporting.

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 09:56 AM

Deaths in the UK have now gone above 20,000

Skybird

04-25-20, 10:01 AM

Correction of the correction: it now seems to be the WHO wants to say both: that immunity certifications after tests make no sense and should not be given out, and that it is not proven that recovering from Covid19 provides the person any kind of certain immunity.

Not my day today.

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 10:19 AM

The UK's Department of Health and Social Care has recorded a further 813 deaths in hospital.

It brings the total number of hospital deaths to 20,319 - making the UK the fifth country to pass 20,000 deaths, along with Italy, Spain, France and the USA.

Then I read this crap below and don't know whether to blow a gasket, laugh or cry.

China, where the new coronavirus emerged in December, has reported more than 82,000 cases and 4,632 deaths.

August

04-25-20, 10:47 AM

If he did not say that, what he said? What Jimbuna posted is basically what everyone around the world is reporting.

Eveyone? Or just certain left leaning publications?

If you care here is a reasonably unbiased recap of what he actually said and didn't say.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

Jimbuna

04-25-20, 11:17 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05ekSK7CsM

Mr Quatro

04-25-20, 11:33 AM

I can't fathom how they (China) thinks they can get away with claiming this kind of data. The USA has had that many deaths in just two days :o

Then I read this crap below and don't know whether to blow a gasket, laugh or cry.

Quote:
China, where the new coronavirus emerged in December, has reported more than 82,000 cases and 4,632 deaths.

I hope other countries see through China's false claims when this is over. Time to produce our own medical supplies and meds instead of trying to save a buck or two.

Mexico would love our business :yep:

mapuc

04-25-20, 11:49 AM

Yesterday USA broke a sad record...more than 50000 American have lost their life to this Corona virus *

The media keeps on telling the number of how many Chinese have died-the numbers they have been given from the official China.
(I believe Free Asia is more correctly, when they said more than 40000 Chinese have died)

* Despite they haven't come over the top of the hill, there are States who are planning on open the door, not just some centimeter, but meters wide open.

And not to forget.

From 28 October 2016 onwards, a fatal swine disease outbreak was observed in a pig farm in Qingyuan, Guangdong province, China, very close to the location of the first known index case of SARS in 2002, who lived in Foshan (Extended Data Fig. 1a). Porcine epidemic diarrhoea virus (PEDV, a coronavirus) had caused prior outbreaks at this farm, and was detected in the intestines of deceased piglets at the start of the outbreak.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0010-9

More here

Investigators confirmed the connection of SADS-CoV to bats by identifying the new virus in the small intestine of piglets from the outbreak. They then determined that the genetic sequence of SADS-CoV is similar to that of a bat coronavirus discovered in 2007 and looked for evidence of SADS-CoV in bat specimens collected from 2013 to 2016 in Guangdong Province. The new virus appeared in 71 of 596 specimens (11.9 percent).

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/new-coronavirus-emerges-bats-china-devastates-young-swine

Markus

Onkel Neal

04-25-20, 12:29 PM

Eveyone? Or just certain left leaning publications?

If you care here is a reasonably unbiased recap of what he actually said and didn't say.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

Pivoting to the US politics thread in reply to your article, August, can we pick it up there? No foul, the Covid-19 and politics are intertwined.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2666123#post2666123

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 04:48 AM

The UK military is to begin testing essential workers in mobile units in "hard to reach" areas.

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who has been deputising for Prime Minister Boris Johnson while he was ill with coronavirus, admitted to Andrew Marr that "we are not where we would want to be on PPE".

Oxford University's Prof Christophe Fraser told the BBC's Andrew Marr between three and 10% of the population was predicted to have contracted coronavirus by this stage - up to six million people.

The state of New York, the epicentre of the Covid-19 outbreak in the US, is planning to allow pharmacies to carry out tests for the virus. Governor Andrew Cuomo said some 5,000 pharmacies would be able to carry out testing, with the aim to provide 40,000 per day.

Germany has been held up as an exemplar for its response to the pandemic.
The latest figures from the Robert Koch Institute, the German public health agency, put the number of deaths in the country at 5,500, which is lower than the UK, Spain, Italy, France and the US.

Sweden has been more relaxed than many other countries in the restrictions it has brought in and has a higher death rate than neighbouring Scandinavian countries. More than 2,000 people have died compared with 193 in Norway.

Israel allowed some businesses to reopen on Sunday and said it would consider reopening schools. Israel has had 15,398 cases and 199 people have died.

India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has called on the country to stick to its lockdown as cases in the country continue to rise. There has been an increase of 2,000 cases registered in the past 24 hours. So far, more than 26,000 cases have been reported and more than 800 people have died.

Saudi Arabia eased some of its restrictions on Sunday. A 24-hour curfew has been lifted and people will be able to move freely from 0900 to 1700 local time. From Wednesday, shops will be allowed to open and some factories will resume operations. More than 16,000 cases have been confirmed and 136 people have died in the country.

Skybird

04-26-20, 04:54 AM

The Swedish number of deaths has to be seen against their small population. Considering that, the Swedish example is a terribly derailed experiment. They will not do better, but worse than most others went - just that they started with a delay. And for that delay they pay with a higher death toll. I can just shake my head about them.

Also, the theory of allowing the pandemic running to enforce herd immunity has been debunked so massively by now that one wonders why anyone still dares to bring it up, it takes so unaccaptble long time to get to the necessary levels. And you pay for it with deaths, deaths, and more deaths.

Add to this that the wHO says immunity certifications make no sense since we cannot even be certain that recovering from Covid 19 does not even necessarily provide you with immunity. No herd immunity then.

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 04:55 AM

Where are fastest-rising outbreaks?

While the US and European nations have been at the centre of the pandemic for the past few weeks, other nations are also seeing cases rapidly rise.

In Ecuador, there are now 22,791 confirmed cases - up from six on 2 March. Officials have suggested the death toll, currently under 900, may be in the thousands and families have said they have struggled to bury their dead.

After recording its first case on 26 February,Brazil has reached 55,224 cases, with 3,762 deaths. Amid the largest outbreak in Latin America, President Jair Bolsonaro has been criticised for joining protesters against the restrictions designed to slow the virus’s spread.

Turkey confirmed its first case on 11 March and now has 107,773 - making it the seventh highest total worldwide. There have been 2,706 deaths.

And in Russia, the total number of confirmed infections reached 74,588, rising from about 1,000 on 28 March. The death toll has reached 681.

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 05:09 AM

All coronavirus patients discharged in Wuhan

The Chinese city of Wuhan, where the virus was first reported, has no remaining cases in its hospitals, according to officials.

Mi Feng, spokesperson for the National Health Commission, told reporters the last patient in a serious condition was "cured" on Friday.

They also confirmed that there are no new cases of the virus in the city.

Since the outbreak began in December, China has reported 82, 816 cases and 4,632 deaths.

Wuhan reported 46,452 cases, 56% of the total.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52430713

Then the band played 'Believe It If You Like'

Skybird

04-26-20, 05:46 AM

After over 300 programmers and experts left the pprject to develope a Corona-tracking app for smarthphone when it became clear the government favoured a model with centralised unlimited data storage und utmost intransparency, it now seem to slowly, unloivingly, bows to the pressure a bit and leaks news that now it wants to accepot a model with decentrlaised ata storage. However, it was carefully avoided to give any details, and the independent checking of the source code by opening it for external analysis is also not being mentioned.

Keep up the pressure, Germans! Say No to this app as long as the giovenrment does not provide it with time-limited, local data storgae (storage in the devices only, auztkatcially deleting itself after two or four weeks), and opening the sourcecode for external verification that no other data fromt he smartphone get extracted by anyone: government services, big data, business...

Skybird

04-26-20, 06:05 AM

Spanish newspaper El Pais gets quoted with reporting that the illegal job market in Spain has collapsed and due to this and Ramadan many illegal migrants now want to flee Spain and get back to Marocco. Smugglers transporting them back and forth have adapted to the now reversed migration movement by offering the tours Spain-Marocco - for 5-10 times as high prices than the trip Marocco-Spain. The demand is there.

"Refugees", anyone...? "Poor" migrants?

I do not speak Spanish, but this is the article they refer to in the German article I have red:
https://elpais.com/espana/2020-04-23/mas-de-5000-euros-por-escapar-de-espana-en-patera.html

Skybird

04-26-20, 06:36 AM

A random find I stumbled over in an Austrain blog. It iIllustrates nicely why I hate and dispise rhetorics that go beyond a certain level. Because from this certain level on it is no longer witty or amusing, but simply a lie dressed in truth's clothing.

When Winston Churchill wanted to announce positive news to his compatriots despite terrible losses during the air battle over England, he explained: The increase in the number of our planes shot down by the German Air Force has decreased.For decades, this interpretation has served my family as an example of sophisticated rhetoric in an extreme situation.
[ In March 2020, the Austrian federal government reached into the same bag of tricks when it announced that the increase in corona infections had decreased. So PR technology was known. (...) ]

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 08:07 AM

You couldn't make this stuff up :nope:

Fake news has been circulating on social media that the first volunteer in the Oxford vaccine trial has died. This is not true.

I spent several minutes this morning chatting with Elisa Granato via Skype.

She is very much alive and told me she was feeling “absolutely fine”.

Dr Granato, who is a microbiologist, said she was going to "chill and enjoy the nice weather today".

She had a group chat with her family and reassured them in case they saw reports of her death. The rumours seem to have originated on a website that mixes fake and real news reports.

It is written in poor English with lots of grammatical errors, often a clue to disinformation.

The head of the Oxford Vaccine Group, Prof Andrew Pollard, who is leading the trial, said: “This sort of fake news could damage our ability to tackle a pandemic. We can’t let that happen.”

Dr Granato was the first person in Europe to be immunised as part of a coronavirus vaccine trial.

That happened on Thursday afternoon. When I spoke to her this morning she told me that she had just been to her first follow-up appointment at the vaccine centre, where they had taken a blood sample.

Marianna Spring, a specialist reporter covering disinformation, said a number of the posts, which were circulating in several languages, had now been removed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52430713

mapuc

04-26-20, 08:26 AM

This Corona isn't finish with its conquer and its development of what it can do to our body.

The patient’s chart appeared unremarkable at first glance. He took no medications and had no history of chronic conditions. He had been feeling fine, hanging out at home during the lockdown like the rest of the country, when suddenly, he had trouble talking and moving the right side of his body. Imaging showed a large blockage on the left side of his head.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

Markus

Skybird

04-26-20, 08:27 AM

We know this kind of lies and propaganda getting spread by anti-vaccination activists, since years. Its not just Covid19, but also Measels and many others. I think I read that also Polio-vaccination levels have dropped to dangerous levels.

Often it is religious nutters and extremists campaigning against vaccination. In Africa and Me places like Afghanistan we know examples of vaccinated children even getting massacred, to scare populations away from vaccination events. Its not the rule they go this far, but it has happened. In such areas, oarents agreeing to vaccinate their kids definitely live dangerous and must fear repression and payback.

Social misery and poverty are a fertile grounds for religious fundamentalism and raising the next generaiton of fanatics, relgious and political alike. And so the misery gets actively fostered to get a richer harvest.

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 08:35 AM

Spain has reported its lowest daily death toll since 20 March, with 288 fatalities.

The figure is a steep drop from the 378 deaths recorded on Saturday.

The health ministry said the total number of fatalities now stood at 23,190.

mapuc

04-26-20, 08:39 AM

Same in Denmark.

Since yesterday only 4 people have died This is the lowest since the first Danish person died in March.

Markus

Skybird

04-26-20, 08:45 AM

Munich, yesterday (Saturday)

https://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/origs11924712/7938511698-w630-h472-o-q75-p5/fol1.jpg

Riding paragraphs. ^ (German proverb)

What people do not understand is: you need to negotiate not with bureucrats or the police or doctors. you need to negotiate with virusses.

mapuc

04-26-20, 08:56 AM

^ Some of your comments Skybird makes me remember an episode from
"Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman"

Can't remember every scene or what was said in this episode.

In short a person see herself more or less invulnerable.
If this person read the warning on the backside of package of cigaret, s/he lowers this to below 30 %. Meaning others will suffer severe as it says in the warning, but this smoker see it with positive eyes and think S/he have less than 30 chance for getting sick.

Or die in a motorcycle accident.

I'm not a psychologist, but I sure you can boil it down to just that.

Markus

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 09:35 AM

A further 368 people have died with coronavirus across England, Scotland and Wales, according to the latest figures from hospitals.

NHS England said 336 deaths had been recorded, taking the total to 18,420.

In Wales 14 more deaths have been recorded taking the total to 788 while in Scotland there have been 18 more deaths, a total of 1,249.

The figures do not include deaths in care homes or other settings.

August

04-26-20, 10:40 AM

https://i1.wp.com/issuesinsights.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Screen-Shot-2020-04-22-at-2.29.34-PM.png?resize=1024%2C970&ssl=1

vienna

04-26-20, 10:51 AM

:yawn: ...

<O>

vienna

04-26-20, 11:05 AM

FEMA Reportedly Took The 5 Million Masks Ordered For Veterans To Send To Stockpile --

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fema-hijacks-masks-for-veterans-hospitals_n_5ea4c72dc5b6805f9ece2bc3

Five million face masks ordered by the Veterans Health Administration to protect staff at the department’s hospitals and clinics were taken by the Federal Emergency Management Agency for the Strategic National Stockpile, a top official told The Washington Post.

“I had 5 million masks incoming that disappeared,” said Dr. Richard Stone, the executive in charge of managing the nation’s largest health care system with 1,255 facilities that serve more than 9 million veterans. He told the Post that FEMA instructed vendors with protective equipment ordered by the Veterans Administration to send the shipments instead to the stockpile.

...

The short-changing of hospitals caring for the nation’s veterans is similar to FEMA issues at other facilities and states across the nation. Hospital officials and governors have complained that FEMA is snatching equipment ordered by communities — rather than providing much-needed supplies, which officials had been counting on the agency to do.

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer — a Democrat who President Donald Trump has frequently targeted because of what he calls her “complaints” — revealed last month that vendors with whom her state had contracted for desperately needed medical equipment were told “not to send stuff,” on orders from the Trump administration.

Several hospitals in seven states surveyed by the Los Angeles Times complained that FEMA officials were showing up unannounced and seizing their supplies, leaving them desperately short and uncertain about where to turn for more equipment.

PeaceHealth, a 10-hospital system in Washington, Oregon and Alaska, had a shipment of testing supplies confiscated. “It’s incredibly frustrating,” CEO Richard DeCarlo told the newspaper.

FEMA also seized 500 ventilators ordered by Colorado this month, according to state officials. Trump then restored 100 of them, apparently as an opportunity to give a shout out to GOP Sen. Cory Gardner, who’s in the middle of a tough reelection campaign in the state.

Trump has ordered states to get their own supplies, but once the supplies are in the pipeline, they’re often seized by the federal government.

Trump’s son-in-law, senior White House adviser Jared Kushner announced at a coronavirus press briefing early this month that the emergency stores were “our” stockpile — and not the states’. The website for the stockpile, however, pointedly said supplies were for the states. The site was quickly changed after Kushner spoke to conform with what he said.

<O>

mapuc

04-26-20, 11:31 AM

No it's not me I'm healthy.

I have some sad news to give you.

Our government effort to break the infection chain will not be a success
In other words get use to Corona virus-cause we will not be able to erase it.

Not even develop an effective vaccine against it.

If WHO and other expert are correct-we will not develop any immunity against this little devil.

Furthermore-Read the headlines in a Swedish newspaper
Corona is hiding in men's testicler
(which is interesting, 'cause so did Ebola)

Markus

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 01:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqtQjByUtkY

Jimbuna

04-26-20, 02:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOhL_KnwrR8

Mr Quatro

04-26-20, 02:24 PM

I just drove by a church on my way home from the store (my third trip in four weeks) and they were all out in the parking lot staying 6' from each other.

They looked like zombies wondering if I was going to arrest them :o

I've been having more fun online at church than I do in church with Rod Parsley

https://www.facebook.com/rodparsley/videos/2700619140063643/UzpfSTEwMDAxNDI2MTMyNTU4Mjo4MzEwODgzNzQwNDMxOTk/?id=100014261325582

So this is it, uh? The last weekend of shut down in USA except for selected areas :yep:

mapuc

04-26-20, 05:38 PM

More and more Danish people/journalist and some politicians have raised their voice and saying the government have overreacted when they closed the country.

To some of my friends who have mention this

I say to them

Study the development of Corona in Italy-They wasn't so quick to shut their society as Denmark was.

Yes their cultural behaviour is different than it is in Denmark-Nevertheless all the death can't be because of this behaviour.

Markus

mapuc

04-26-20, 05:54 PM

5G is not number 1 on the Conspiracy top 10 list anymore

A known person is now number 1 on this list

Hoaxes directed at the Microsoft co-founder turned philanthropist, are all over YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. The New York Times found 16,000 posts on Facebook this year that were liked and commented on nearly 900,000 times. The 10 most popular Youtube videos spreading misinformation about Gates and the virus were viewed almost five millions times in March and April. The falsehoods being spread vary, but range from him creating COVID-19 in order to profit from a vaccine, or of Gates being a member of a plot to cull humanity and/or implement a global surveillance system.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/17/21224728/bill-gates-coronavirus-lies-5g-covid-19

:nope::nope:

Markus

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 06:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1LHg-Nv53k

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 06:15 AM

Prime Minister Boris Johnson says the UK is at point of "maximum risk" and he won't ease restrictions too quickly.

His return after serious Covid-19 illness comes as pressure mounts to deliver testing and relax the lockdown.

Although UK has flattened the peak of the virus, priority is to avoid a second outbreak, he says.

Some countries where cases have been falling are starting to ease restrictions on economic activity.

Italy outlines plans to ease restrictions from 4 May as it records its lowest daily death toll since mid-March.

Germany makes it mandatory to wear masks outside.

New Zealand says it has eliminated local transmission - it moves out of its toughest lockdown level at midnight.

There are almost 3 million confirmed cases and more than 206,000 deaths globally, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 06:30 AM

The daily UK coronavirus briefing from Downing Street has become a familiar fixture since March, but now the public will now be able to submit questions.

Some students in Shanghai and Beijing have returned to classes after weeks of lockdown. Chinese authorities also said there were no new virus patients in Wuhan, where the outbreak began, and that all Covid-19 patients had been discharged.

Reconstruction work on Notre-Dame cathedral, which was damaged in a fire last year, has resumed after it was halted because of the country's lockdown restrictions.

Five bars and restaurants in Stockholm have been closed by the city council after failing inspections on coronavirus safety.

New Zealand is lifting some of its nationwide lockdown measures. It says it has ended local transmissions for now.

In Australia, more than a million people downloaded a coronavirus contact tracing app within hours of it being released. Restrictions are easing in some areas.

India has also relaxed some of its lockdown rules - over the weekend, it allowed small local stores to reopen after more than a month.

The number of cases in Singapore continues to rise as more foreign workers test positive. There are over 13,000 confirmed cases, the vast majority of whom are workers living in dormitories.

Nigeria’s commercial capital, Lagos, has mandated the compulsory use of face masks in public, as confirmed coronavirus cases continue to rise locally.

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 06:52 AM

In his speech at Downing Street this morning, the prime minister said, “We did not allow our NHS to collapse."

He also said the health service had not run out of ventilators or intensive care unit beds.

He is correct.

At the end of last week, there were 3,000 spare critical care beds available in the UK, according to the government.

The health service across the UK had 7,199 critical care beds at the end of last week, not including the several thousand made available in emergency field hospitals, such as the NHS Nightingale hospitals in London, Manchester and other cities.

The government has also said that every patient who needs a ventilator has received one, but has not yet met the goal of 18,000 ventilators pledged at the beginning of the month.

Mr Quatro

04-27-20, 09:52 AM

Breaking News Girl Scouts cookie sales going bankrupt!

Girl Scouts in Alaska get federal recovery loan as cookie sales crumble

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/girl-scouts-alaska-federal-recovery-loan-cookie-sales-down/

"It was frenzied shopping, and people were hoarding cookies like they were toilet paper," Ridle said of sales before the state ordered business closures last month.

Anchorage-based council is sitting on about 144,000 unsold boxes filling the homes of scouting families in southern Alaska, Ridle said.

"I'm hearing from lots of families: 'When am I getting these out of my living rooms?' " Ridle said.

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 10:58 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TYqGtrewoA

Jimbuna

04-27-20, 11:28 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu00u2dEnbs

mapuc

04-27-20, 12:47 PM

Some interesting figures from Sweden

(From one of their newspaper)

The National Board of Health has looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to give a more detailed picture of the mortality in covid-19.
The statistics show that 90 percent of those who died were over 70 and half over 86. Only one percent were under 50 years of age. Most people who have died in the disease also had one or more risk factors.

Risk factors:

High blood pressure is most common and is seen in 79.6 percent of cases.
48.5 percent of the dead had cardiovascular disease
29 percent had diabetes
14.6 percent had some type of lung disease.
14.4 percent had not had any of the above risk factors.
54 percent of the deceased are men.

It should be remembered that 65 percent of all over 70 years have high blood pressure so you should not stare blindly at it. High blood pressure is not the big thing but it interacts with other things such as diabetes or obesity.

Markus

Skybird

04-27-20, 01:21 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TYqGtrewoA
The bat theor yis not new, a claimed "bat woman", A Chiense special researcher studiyjg bats in caves i China wa salreaey mentioned back then in that context. Also that the virus may have escaped from the lab i Wuhan is nothing new as a theory.

Germany's Christain Drosten also accept bats to be the likely origin, but thinks the virus has spread to another species that then was sold on the animal market at Wuhan as an example). The species he is mentioning, are Chinese Marderhunde (raccoon dog, I think).

em2nought

04-27-20, 03:06 PM

Some interesting figures from Sweden

(From one of their newspaper)

The National Board of Health has looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to give a more detailed picture of the mortality in covid-19.
The statistics show that 90 percent of those who died were over 70 and half over 86. Only one percent were under 50 years of age. Most people who have died in the disease also had one or more risk factors.

Risk factors:

High blood pressure is most common and is seen in 79.6 percent of cases.

Markus

Well that sucks for me, must be Valsartan or Losartan creating more receptors for the virus? Wonder if switching to some other BP drugs will reduce the numbers of receptors after those drugs have already mutated your cells to contain more receptors? :o

Skybird

04-27-20, 03:20 PM

The German RKI now calculates the R value at 1.0 again, a rise.

Over thge last week it was risen to 0.8 again, then to 0.9. For very short time iot was at 0.7, and some experts said with a continuastion of lockdown there ws a realistic chance to push it down to 0.2 and to dry the pandemic out.

Italy said schools remain shut until autumn, they see no reaosn to take huge risks just so tgo have a short time of presence schooling at schools. Right decision! Ger,many opens schools slowly and want to bring all students into at least a bit of presence schooling again before summer holidays. For this enormous risks are beign accepted. Wrong decision! We should only consider having only the candidates for high school graduation at school now, those who would have finished school this summer. But no, actionism, opportunism, self-propaganda of eleciton candidates and political pick and hack takes over again. These German school kids will bring back another rise of the pandemic.

August

04-27-20, 04:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hspw7Y1Gc5s&feature=emb_logo

mapuc

04-27-20, 04:22 PM

Some pages back Skybird posted a picture from Berlin where lots of people had gathered in the warm weather.

Denmark had the same problems, in many places more than 10 people was gathering in the warm weather.
This have been to much for the Danish Police so now they have

in order to prevent the spread of coronavirus, the police have introduced a temporary stay ban in several places in Denmark.

If you break the rules regarding this Staying prohibition

you will be fined with 2500 Dkr. or approx 363 $

Markus

mapuc

04-27-20, 04:33 PM

Molecular engineers have tested some material we may have in our homes.

In the journal ACS nano, Guha and colleagues report the best results came by combining three layers of two different materials. Specifically, Guha stopped the most virus-carriers with a tightly woven sheet of cotton, such as from high thread-count sheets, and two layers of polyester-spandex chiffon. For some particle sizes, this was 99 percent effective, and even for smaller particles, up to 95 percent were captured. The combination, when well fitted, actually beat surgical masks at most particle sizes.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/the-best-homemade-masks-combine-different-fabrics/?fbclid=IwAR2VSSHJGqTAIto-pYzzgWXXDgojPqX0na845NC2nb80HNEl1Ix6Oiqd2FU

Markus

Skybird

04-27-20, 04:39 PM

Skybird

04-27-20, 04:50 PM

Meanwhile the former "conspiratiopn theory" that the virus escaped indeed from a Chinese lab, gets more and more and more supported. Whnile it should have been a high tech and high security lab of the highest level 4, conditions there should have been not en par, say some,l were deaastrous say others. Austrlaia calls for an exmaination, and immediately triggers the to be expected respmonse by our new Chines e friends and allies: attacks, and threats of boycotting Australia.

Western business and politics should please finally take note of the real and true nature of China. All the foul excuses of chnaging China by trade and appeasment, never became true anyway. And now this pandemic and its catastrophic global consequences. And still they dare to beat the loudest drum in the orchestra.

I admit ten and more years ago I was willing to give them the shadow of the doubt, and said back then they will seek hegemony by trade, but not by military means, and that they never were military conquerors. Point is I was forced to meanwhile learn that I was wrong on the history part, and misassessed their present ambitions, too. My honeymoon with China is over since years. Today I see China just as a global thread.

Germany still pays them development aid, I think. :/\\!!

mapuc

04-27-20, 05:01 PM

mapuc

04-27-20, 05:12 PM

Oh man.

More than 700 people in Iran have died, not from this Corona, but by trying to kill the virus they thought or they may have.
They have been drinking toxic Methanol

The false belief that toxic methanol cures the corona virus has seen over 700 people killed in Iran, an official said Monday.

That represents a higher death toll than so far released by the Iranian Health Ministry.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-04-27/false-belief-poison-cures-virus-kills-over-700-in-iran

Markus

Skybird

04-27-20, 05:22 PM

^ A friends friend posted some days ago an interesting idea.

After I had read what he wrote in one for my friends bulletin I said this is unlikely to likely

From my memory

There's more than 1 billion people in China, if 1 million Chinese should die from some virus and a majority of these will be elder and people with underlying diseases it will not be some heavy loses seen from the politicians point of view.

What if they expect to lose up to 1 million Chinese by letting this virus slip into the world.

Then something about our vulnerability in our economy due to this virus and that we now see Chinese very eager to purchase some of our economical interest in West and in our economical hemisphere.

I have tried to remember which friend it was and when this friends friend posted his comment.

I have put it between unlikely and likely.

Markus
Well, maybe it was me, I posted kind of a thought experiment like what you outlined in early March. China can and is willing to swallow high losses and not just lose civilian casualties, but even causes them by massacring its own people if it gets stubborn (Tianmen Plaza, 30 thousand slain). They could accept a temporary economic downfall if they could create an even greater downfall of their economic rivals on the global stage - because relatively this would make them stronger over their rivals. .

I mean, its war, isnt it. Western politicians do not see it as that, but I do. Its the preparation of globla conflict with pre-military means. See south chinese sea. See their intimidation politcies in the region.

I do not say it is like the narration above, but I would not be surprised if it turns out to be like that. Its a totalitarian, criminal, corrupt, inhumane and barbaric tyranny that rules China, and a new emperor tries to enthrone his family as a new dynasty there. The current leader is the most powerful leader china has ever had since centuries, more so than Mao.

Skybird

04-27-20, 05:28 PM

Oh man.

More than 700 people in Iran have died, not from this Corona, but by trying to kill the virus they thought or they may have.
They have been drinking toxic Methanol

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-04-27/false-belief-poison-cures-virus-kills-over-700-in-iran

Markus
Methanol, I think I can beat that: Weeks ago the Turks were buying every bottle of German 4711 Eau de Cologne that was left on the market, thinking it would immunise them. :D Sometimes you just can laugh, sorry. That stuff stinks! The only immunization it provides is, against other humans - they will avoid you, if their nose is intact.

Mr Quatro

04-27-20, 05:35 PM

All of these facts and figures about the numbers for Covid-19

55,000 for USA soon to be more than all of the lost men and women in the Vietnam war of the 60's and early 70's.

I would like to see how many died from the flu alongside the coronavirus.

I know I know Covid-19 is much more terrible and easier to contract

LA county now says that corona is the number one killer ... so where are
the other figures ... the drums are beating for fear of coronavirus.

I want to be sober for the flu too that a shot has been working on for many.

Drug overdoses are also high in numbers, but no one cares ... :oops:

Y'all stay safe don't run around after the all clear whistle blows ... It will come back till there is a solution that works 2021 may even be to soon :yep:

Skybird

04-27-20, 05:42 PM

Proper social distancing in extremis. :k_confused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=260&v=XwaH-qT4Rm0&feature=emb_logo

:Kaleun_Applaud:

mapuc

04-27-20, 05:47 PM

Well, maybe it was me, I posted kind of a thought experiment like what you outlined in early March. China can and is willing to swallow high losses and not just lose civilian casualties, but even causes them by massacring its own people if it gets stubborn (Tianmen Plaza, 30 thousand slain). They could accept a temporary economic downfall if they could create an even greater downfall of their economic rivals on the global stage - because relatively this would make them stronger over their rivals. .

I mean, its war, isnt it. Western politicians do not see it as that, but I do. Its the preparation of globla conflict with pre-military means. See south chinese sea. See their intimidation politcies in the region.

I do not say it is like the narration above, but I would not be surprised if it turns out to be like that. Its a totalitarian, criminal, corrupt, inhumane and barbaric tyranny that rules China, and a new emperor tries to enthrone his family as a new dynasty there. The current leader is the most powerful leader china has ever had since centuries, more so than Mao.

Ok maybe it was you.

When I read this article and following phrase

The work also found a peculiar link between ACE2 and interferon, a protein that is used by cells to fight off viral infections. When one is activated, so is the other. The findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 might have uncovered a way to go around this natural defense using the activation of ACE2 to its advantage.

I was thinking have our nature manage to develop a virus that can do as mention in the quote or have some helped it somehow

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/scientists-identify-which-cells-the-novel-coronavirus-targets-in-our-bodies/?fbclid=IwAR0IEacWAx5AOWo-F-invJXBIplTwOSBbqiDoXsPsT5Nsa7UqQUpn44cMLE

Markus

Rockstar

04-27-20, 09:50 PM

Now thought to also attack ACE2 receptors in blood cells which could lead to stroke in some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Bn8jsGI54

Mr Quatro

04-27-20, 10:08 PM

Now thought to also attack ACE2 receptors in blood cells which could lead to stroke in some.

Thanks a lot Rockstar :D

Just when I thought it was safe to go outside :o

Skybird

04-28-20, 03:33 AM

Thanks a lot Rockstar :D

Just when I thought it was safe to go outside :o
It is safe to be outside if you are alone with yourself and avoid other people. ;) Keep others many meters away and always stand with the wind in your back or from the sides, not in your face. The ideal group size these days is "1".

2m distance, or 1.5, is not a safety measure, but a bureacuratic formula providing an alibi for easing lockdown.

em2nought

04-28-20, 04:29 AM

It's not going to be fun wearing a mask for the whole flight across the Pacific from now on.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200424081648.htm

The best material for homemade face masks may be a combination of two fabrics

One layer of a tightly woven cotton sheet combined with two layers of polyester-spandex chiffon -- a sheer fabric often used in evening gowns -- filtered out the most aerosol particles (80-99%, depending on particle size), with performance close to that of an N95 mask material.

Catfish

04-28-20, 06:19 AM

^ Even a breather mask with valves will get moist or even wet after half an hour, let alone a simple cloth one. I wonder how often you should wash/disinfect/exchange it :hmmm:

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 06:19 AM

Nearly 25,000 deaths from all causes were recorded in the UK in week of the Easter bank holiday - 108% above expected number for time of year.

Separate figures show a third of all virus deaths in England and Wales are now occurring in care homes.

The UK held a minute's silence at 11:00 BST to remember key workers who have died.

BBC investigation finds that key protective health equipment was not in UK stockpile, despite warnings.

France and Spain are set to unveil plans to relax lockdowns that have been in place for several weeks.

Nigeria will also begin a gradual easing of virus lockdowns in certain areas from 4 May.

Global virus cases pass 3 million, with more than 200,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 06:31 AM

President Donald Trump has said he "can't imagine why" there has been a spike in calls about disinfectant to US emergency hotlines.

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe will lay out how France will slowly exit its lockdown restrictions from 11 May. There will be a debate followed by a vote on the plans, which controversially involve children returning to school against the advice of the national scientific council.

Official data from Germany’s Robert Koch Institute shows the reproduction figure has risen to around 1.0 again – meaning each infected person is passing on the virus to one other. Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned states not to ease restrictions too quickly, as both confirmed cases and the death toll move higher.

Both Spain and Greece will announce further ways of easing restrictions on Tuesday. Portugal’s government is holding a closed-door meeting with health officials, and has said the discussions are key in any move toward loosening the lockdown.

Police in the Indian city of Mumbai have been told to stay at home if they're older than 55, after three officers died of Covid-19.

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 06:36 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLr_TYHX1L4

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 07:03 AM

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has unveiled new guidance by the Scottish government, saying people should cover their faces when outdoors.

Malaysia's deputy health minister has been fined for violating the country's movement control order. Noor Azmi Ghazali has to pay $325 (£260) after a picture of him enjoying a meal at an Islamic school was uploaded to social media. Malaysia has introduced tough restrictions - and penalties - to stop the spread of the virus. Thousands have been prosecuted.

More than 2,200 Indonesians who were not recorded as having died with Covid-19 had acute symptoms of the disease, an investigation by Reuters news agency has found. Indonesia has recorded 765 deaths so far, but medical experts believe the figure is much higher.

The number of migrant workers infected with coronavirus in Singapore may be higher than current figures suggest, the director of medical services for the health ministry has said. The island nation currently has 15,000 confirmed cases - many of which are linked to the dormitories where many foreign workers live. However, Kenneth Mak said the numbers would eventually become clear, as each worker was being tested before they were allowed out of isolation.

Rockstar

04-28-20, 10:24 AM

Well, maybe it was me, I posted kind of a thought experiment like what you outlined in early March. China can and is willing to swallow high losses and not just lose civilian casualties, but even causes them by massacring its own people if it gets stubborn (Tianmen Plaza, 30 thousand slain). They could accept a temporary economic downfall if they could create an even greater downfall of their economic rivals on the global stage - because relatively this would make them stronger over their rivals. .

I mean, its war, isnt it. Western politicians do not see it as that, but I do. Its the preparation of globla conflict with pre-military means. See south chinese sea. See their intimidation politcies in the region.

I do not say it is like the narration above, but I would not be surprised if it turns out to be like that. Its a totalitarian, criminal, corrupt, inhumane and barbaric tyranny that rules China, and a new emperor tries to enthrone his family as a new dynasty there. The current leader is the most powerful leader china has ever had since centuries, more so than Mao.

I think every scenario including the thoughts you expressed above are being considered. I'm sure there are more people than we've been lead to believe thinking about it. Takes a great deal of restraint from falling into Thucydides Trap.

Skybird

04-28-20, 11:20 AM

^ Even a breather mask with valves will get moist or even wet after half an hour, let alone a simple cloth one. I wonder how often you should wash/disinfect/exchange it :hmmm:
You SHOULD not at all, but we need to improvise.

Wearing an FFP2/3 mask for the duration of a typical supermarket visit, lets say 20 minutes, is okay, but not really comfortable. Telling this by experience, I do this since many weeks. It makes no difrerence whether it is FFP2 or FF3, has a valve or not, the bretahign resitence to me always feels the same. I sweat under it, breathg in the nose gets increasingly wet. Wearing these for 6-8 hours in a row I think is illusory. Key is to have the metal wire over the nose in absolutely the right form, else you blow your breath right into your eyes all the time, increasing the risk of needing to touch the area for fixing it later on. I hang up a used mask at my trousers belt when bicycling home, the wind removes all moisture within minutes, which is key. Ther emjst be a breathign resitence, if there is none, you soak in air at the rims, and then the air gets not filtered by the filter material. When breathing out, the air should leave through the filter wall again, or through the valve, if the mask has one. Note: a mask with such a filter reduces the protection others get from you wearing that mask! Becasue any virus in your breath leaves the mask unfiltered by that valve when you exhale. Talking not about completely neutralising this protection benefit of the others, but reducing it.

The virus load of such a mask will, vanish all by itself if you just give it time. If this viorus lives on carbox for 24 hours and steel and plastic for 3 days, you should probably be safe regading virus after 1 day, and I would nti not even think of virusa in it anymore after three days. Thats why I have a few of these amsks - to rotate them through and give each of them a 3 days rest after one day of using it.

Bacteria is a much reater cioncern, thus the need to rmeove moisture as fast a spossible. Some "experts" sometimes say you should put this m ask into a plastic bag or a sealed box and keep it tight until arriving home, well, that is a nice breeding climate for bacteria and it is dark and moist and much of what bacteria like. Keep it in the open, I say, let the wind touch it, sunlight/UV. Use a hot iron on it at home (minimum 70°C but noit more than 80°C to noit harm the material itself or the structuzre of the fibres). Bake it in an oven for half an hour at same temperatures. You can consider to emerge it in hot water 60°C and add a hygienics washing fluid. I would not wash any type of mask in a washing machine, it might break the structure of the fleece or textile too easily.

Dry them well before using them again.

There are models avialable in germany whcih i still must test, textile masks that thus do not prptect yopurself, but the others form you, they have thin layers of silver ions in them like being used in filters for water purifiers. This silver doe snot kill vorus, as far as I know, but it kills bacterias, and thus it might be worth to try such masks out. They dense cotton layers on the outside and give a good impression. If someobdy thinks he must not want to protect himself efficiently (you cannot do that with textile masks and surgiucla amsks), and just wantr to wear an alibi mask to meet legal obligations, this model might be a good choice.

Myself, i sweat eaisly and dso not like summer temperatures at all. I still prefer to wear FFP2/3 masks inside buuilding,s shops etc, and no mask at all outside, in the open - but here actively avpoiding people by many meters. Which is not difficult for me, since I live very much withdrawn and a bit avoidant of people in general. Best proiteciton these days you can get is - avoid people. As I dsaid earlier today: those 1.5-2 m are notz enoughk, they are just an alibi to allow them to ease lockdown reuglations. You need to want a distance of 8 meters and more, depending on the wind and air streams. You also want spacing not just i8n spoace, but in time: do not walk through positions of somebody who stiull stood there and b reathed in and out seconds before you. Avoid.

Nothing of all this is esoteric or phobic or special rocket science. Just using reason and plain thought is enough.

In the end, only FFP masks realyl amkese sense. Anythign else that gets claimd owes to the fact that we still have not sufficjent FFPO masks for everybody, and that it is unrealistic to wear FFP masks for hours if doing heavy work without compromsiing its efficiency: these masks should not be worn if soaking with moisture.

We have the yearly owner's assembly of the house I live in coming up in a few weeks. I already said that this year I will oppose presence meetings, and will not meet. Some are angry at me now, but I do not care. Its no emergency. Only emergencies and circumstances that make it a must or make it inevitable to accept close presence of others, are acceptable. A formality is no emergency. Health (and life) goes before legal formalities.

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 11:42 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJipbWKmoA

Jimbuna

04-28-20, 11:47 AM

UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock says testing will be expanded to all care home residents and staff.

Daily figures of deaths in care homes will be published from Wednesday.

Figures show a third of all virus deaths in England and Wales are now occurring in care homes.

UK hospital death toll now 21,678, a rise of 586 on the previous day.

France's PM Edouard Philippe says 62,000 lives were saved in a single month during lockdown.

He told the French assembly that shops would reopen on 11 May but not bars and restaurants.

US House of Representatives abandons plans to return to Washington next week on medical advice.

Global virus cases pass 3 million, with more than 200,000 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

mapuc

04-28-20, 04:07 PM

Mr Quatro

04-28-20, 04:20 PM

In the last three (3) months and three (3) days ... 1-25-2020

Only one member has contracted the virus and got over it :yep:

Not too bad, uh? :up:

Skybird

04-28-20, 04:27 PM

In the last three (3) months and three (3) days ... 1-25-2020

Only one member has contracted the virus and got over it :yep:

Not too bad, uh? :up:
Hm, this member at my end of the wire knew three forum-non-members via internet for many years who are no more there. Pretty much high a quota, I must say. "Distant" feels different. I do not preach self-protection for no reason.

Skybird

04-28-20, 04:38 PM

Some of you mentioned some weeks ago, there could be shortage of food, especially from our farmers, because the borders is closed and those thousand of workers from Poland, Romania and other Eastern countries who use to take the trip to countries like Germany to work in the farming area which is impossible due to those closed border.

I forgot to mention when this was posted in this thread, that the Swedish Primeminister have said to Swedish tv.

- "There are thousands of strong young men and women who have, because of this Corona crisis lost their job
They could do the same job in our field, as workers from Poland and other Eastern country use to do each year "

And he's correct, as long there's labour who can do those jobs there's not really any shortage of food....not yet.

Markus
He misses one thing, though. For exmaple over here in Germany many German students enthusiastically ran to the farmers and volunteered for example for harvesting asparagus.

Have you ever tried that yourself? I can assure you, its no pleasure, but quite brutal if you are not used to it by many weeks doing it.

Its no pleasure. Very serious back pain, and slow working speed. Most people quit by the end of the first week, and they are ruinous for the farmers, because they want to get paid, but can harvest only a fraction of the asparagus that foreign season workers can harvest with their many years of routine and hardened backs. The difference is the Ger,man harvests one basket, and the skilled season worker in that time harvests 6, 7, 8 baskets, if not more.

Many farmers do not even try to find German helpers, even send them away, being taught by past experiences that were not worth it.

To huge parts, this is just political opportunism by desktop geniuses who do not know what they are talking of. Farmers do not just need hands wanting to help. They need hands whose owners have some experience and know what to do with them. Else it does not pay off financially, because who works for free anyway, even more so hard work on the fields...? A farmer who must pay a wage must see ther work result correpsnding to it, else its a loss, and its cheaper to just plow the field and fruits under.

What indeed gets done over here.

mapuc

04-28-20, 04:47 PM

^ I know it's a hard job doing these farming and garden things.

Maybe this was the reason he(the Swedish primeminister) said young strong men and women.
yes the payment isn't that great

I try to remember if he/they mentioned something regarding payment to those who volunteered.

If it should be severe, this food shortage, do you think our government will enforce young men and women to do these thing-force them to do work they don't like, such as working with farming or gardening or maybe in the forrest ?

Forgot something...you mentioned financially.

But when there's shortage of food, especially food from our farmers and gardeners, can we then talk about finances ?
(Can't get it right, looks so wrong)

Markus

Skybird

04-28-20, 04:59 PM

yes the payment isn't that great

I meant it still doe snot pa yoff for the famers to pay thes elow wages if the workers cannot dleiver the harvestign quota.
do you think our government will enforce young men and women to do these thing-force them to do work they don't like, such as working with farming or gardening or maybe in the forrest ?Civil rights. I do not kinow how striong these are defende din Sweden, I assume poretty much. I just read minutes ago thzat the first federal state court in the Saarland has ruled that the government must immediately lift the banning of free movement. After four weeks and with rising virus reproduction value they nevertheless now use courts to enforce an end to strict anti-cirus measurements. I cannot imagine how such a legal system would allow forced labour if any of the sentenced workers challenged any such commands by the governments.

Its a crazy world. And we will pay the price for it. Its way too soon for all that easing of lockdown. I just hope the judges ruling to break the lockdown in the Saarland will be amongst the next falling victim to the virus. They should eat the medicine they distribute.

mapuc

04-28-20, 05:07 PM

Thank you Skybird for your reply.

When reading your answer I came to think on state of emergency

I hope it will not come so far, that our politicians in Denmark and/or Sweden will introduce a state of emergency.

I hope that we next year will look back and say...never again.

Markus

Skybird

04-28-20, 05:37 PM

This all will not be over next year. The financial-economic-social fallout will haunt us for many years to come.

I think there will be a vaccine for Covid19, I hope so at least, but guaranteed that is not. Mind you, we still have no vaccine for the ordinary cold. HIV. Several other Corona virusses.

A vaccine is the only reasonable exist strategy we have.

Immunization seems to be given after recovery, German virologists say, but it means not to last for longer than maybe 1-3 years. Later reinfections may be milder, but you still can infect others, and be taken out yourself again.

And ever new complications and symptoms of this virus get discovered, some of them really nightmarish.

Mr Quatro

04-28-20, 10:16 PM

Youtube sent me a recommended video, because I had watched this Canadian preppers video's before ...
It's only 15 minutes long and I couldn't get a hang on what he was trying to say, but he even admits that he doesn't know what is going on.

Yet he has some good points ... If you watch it and listen to him watch it again a second time and turn the sound off.

Really good sharp images about what is going on. I still can't figure out who these mad people are that want to go back to work
and who are the people saying stay at home.

Kind of confusing due to I stay at home as a writer anyway :yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QU8zjpxfhA&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=ILWjZPK-6swV2EO2%3A6

em2nought

04-29-20, 01:01 AM

Deaths will drop off when most all the susceptible people have died. Then after that most deaths will be people who in the meantime joined the ranks of being susceptible because of acquiring some other condition. So in a way deaths from other causes will be reduced because they'll catch this virus at some point and die from it instead of the thing that would have eventually killed them anyway. Stopping the world isn't going to let them survive. We stopped the world to give people who will die a few more months on earth. I've got hypertension so I might eventually be one of them, unless I get treated with hydroxychloroquine early instead of too late, but hey I'd be going to the VA, and I can't slip over to Colombia or Thailand to get it either so....

What we've done will probably increase the number of deaths because people who would have been getting treated for some other problem aren't now, and those people will probably end up with the virus and die too if they don't die from their other diseases first.

I doubt most people really get the concept of flattening the curve. Less deaths than would have been in the beginning, but a longer period with a large numbers of deaths. When they figure that out they aren't going to like it too much.

Things that might help aren't happening. Walmart should be installing some big @ss exhaust fans for instance and vent all that bad air on some sort of schedule. Might have to close four times a day for a half hour each time or something of that nature to expel the bad air, or maybe compress it and ship it to Congress as a present. :D Bottled fresh air to go with your gourmet ice cream. :up:

Skybird

04-29-20, 04:45 AM

Flattening the curve is about one thing only, and always was: to keep the number of cases delivered to hospitla below that criticla treshhold level when hopsitals would start to get drowned in patients. By avoidng this, you do not reduce the number of new infections, but, as you corretcly said, you just stretch them over onger period of time. But by avoidng the health systemj getting overwhlemed you reduce the total numbers of people getting killed - either by Corona itslef, or by conditons that do not get treated becasue Corona patients have overwhlemed the health system.

So, in the end you save lives nevertheless.

Also, we buy time. Time to develope a vaccine, whcih is the only exist strategy we have.

Inentionally infesting the population to enforce her immunity, whne will this madness finally end? It has been repeatedly demstrated now mathmatically what stellar calamity this would cause, and how long it would take to acchieve levels of herd immunity sufficient for stopping the pandemic. Until it is not stopped anymore: becasue, minding you, it seems you get only temporary immunity from recovering from Covid 19. You can get reinfected again. They do not know after how long, maybe 1 year, maybe 2 or three years. But the immunity most likely is not to last longer.

Skybird

04-29-20, 05:07 AM

Interview with Germany'S Christian Drosten in The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

This virus is a slaughterer. You do not want to carelessly risk getting this. You just do not want to get it. You do not want to become a member of the "almost one in five club".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJVXwzF93Qc

Germany extends global travel warnings until at least mid-June.

Merkel says that she wants to even raise climate goals for the time immediately after the economic restart. Oh those Germans.

German hospitals started to cut back number of beds reserved for Covid, and start to catch up operations that were delayed in preparation for Covid-19.

German doctors are stunned by patients with cardiovascular conditions having become rare to be seen in hospitals. Just a third, sometimes less, of the patients with strokes and according emergencies are being seen in ER. People also avoid meeting their doctors for fear of catching the virus. How many people die from this behaviourm is to be evaluated.

Economic "experts" were heard in the last days, warning germany against building an own mask and protecive equipment production capacity again, saying that such factories and comaonies would run bancrott within two years, because producing in Asia is cheaper and demand would drop soon. Herr laß Hirn regnen...

Jimbuna

04-29-20, 05:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShz0omvcio

Jimbuna

04-29-20, 06:01 AM

The US has confirmed one million virus cases, making up almost a third of the total global tally.

With more than 58,000 deaths, more Americans have died with Covid-19 than died in the Vietnam War.

China's parliament will meet again next month, a sign officials believe the virus is under control there.

President Trump has ordered meat processing plants, which have become virus hotspots, to remain open.

All staff and residents of UK care homes will be tested for the virus whether or not they have symptoms.

Jimbuna

04-29-20, 06:16 AM

Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his fiancee Carrie Symonds have announced the birth of a son. The PM returned to work on Monday after recovering from coronavirus.

Thousands of cancer patients will be operated on at new centres designed to be kept clear of the virus.

A train has been named after Captain Tom Moore, the war veteran who has raised £29m for the NHS by walking 100 laps around his garden.

More than 800 sailors have now been tested for Covid-19 on board the aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth. The Royal Navy is now awaiting the results before making a decision as to when she’ll leave Portsmouth for further sea trials.

France's oldest doctor Dr Christian Chenay says he "cannot just abandon" his patients as he continues to work in a high-risk environment during the pandemic at the age of 98.

Malawi's President Peter Mutharika has announced an emergency cash transfer programme for people worst-affected by Covid-19. Eligible households will receive a monthly payment of 35,000 Malawian kwacha ($47; £38) by mobile cash transfer starting in May.

In Switzerland - which is beginning to ease its lockdown measures - authorities say they consider that it is now safe for children under the age of 10 to hug their grandparents.

Some 313 coronavirus cases have been reported in Moroccan jails following mass testing for Covid-19.