View Full Version : Wuhan virus 2020
Jimbuna
08-04-21, 11:33 AM
All healthy 16 and 17-year-olds in the UK are to be offered a Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine.
JCVI chair Prof Wei Shen Lim says they should be offered a first dose within weeks - advice on second jabs will come later.
Professor Van-Tam, deputy chief medical officer for England, says there is no problem with supply.
Two of his children are not yet 16, but he said he would be confident to jab them if they were.
Dr June Raine, the UK's top medical regulator, says trials on teenagers have showed the vaccine to be as safe as it is for adults.
The advice for 12 to 15-year-olds remains unchanged.
Coronavirus cases are going in the right direction during the school summer holidays, says virus expert Prof Paul Elliot.
But he says the big issue is what’s going to happen in the autumn when schools restart.
Indonesia's death toll passes 100,000, with case numbers now the highest in the region.
China reports its highest number of locally transmitted Covid cases since January.
Jimbuna
08-04-21, 11:35 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/8CXZ4Vfq/119769494-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-03aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/wtJ5xZVV)
Skybird
08-04-21, 11:40 AM
@Skybird
3 people I know personally had COVID. Their ages ranked from 64, 57 and 19. They are all family(mom, dad and daughter). None went to the hospital. No lasting effects.
I know of two cases in the social vicinity of my parents, they survived. I also knew three men since 15, 17 and 20 years via internet, with whom I debated and played email chess these years, who are dead. A Spaniard living in Tuscany. A Southern Korean. A Canadian who got the mess served with the extra large shovel near New York where he worked as doctor "in the trenches".
Now what, AVGWarhawk?
Maybe I am well-advised to stick with not individual case references, but statistics describing trends and data for whole populations?
And sticking to a memory of the early horrifying events we saw in Northern Italy and New York and elsewhere? What happened there back then, is happening right now that we type in many places in the aunvaccinated thrid world.
Stop having silly arguments with me. Stop trying to help carelessly spreading the desease. Get your back up and get your damn jabs.
Its not nice to get Covid and suffer through it, even if you survive. Its not ncie to havelogn covid at home, and its not nice surviving in ICU with the machine breathing for you, and later you must learn over weeks to breath yourself again. And you can keep damage for the rest of your life. The risks involved with this vaccination, like with any vaccination, pale compared to that. It just does not compare. Not even a bit. Not at all.
Your hospitals where on breaking point. The ICUs in many other countries sent SOS last year. They got overwhelemed with peope who could not stay at home ill, becaswue they had it too badly. And that was the Alpha variant that had 1200 times less virus load.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 11:48 AM
Now what, AVGWarhawk?
Stop having silly arguments with me. Stop trying to help carelessly spreading the desease. Get your back up and get your damn jabs.
There is no argument here. You do what you believe you need to do. As far as carelessly spreading the virus you must have missed the portion of my post that states those vaccinated are still getting infected. Some get ill as a result. Others simply carry the virus in the nasal passages becoming a spreader. This indicates the vaccinated and unvaccinated are both carelessly spreading. The CDC recommends the vaccinated wear a mask. Probably more so the vaccinated as their guard is down and have relaxed the need to distance/wash hands. The current vaccine appears to be outdated already.
Its not nice to get Covid and suffer through it, even if you survive.
It's not nice to get the Flu and suffer through it, even if you survive, like 99% do that get it or Covid. Why don't you stop giving medical orders to people? You are not a doctor and you have no absolutely business telling anyone to get a covid shot.
Catfish
08-04-21, 12:28 PM
[...] Why don't you stop giving medical orders to people? You are not a doctor and you have no absolutely business telling anyone to get a covid shot.
Maybe because a good part of the world has had enough with politically biased opinions and antiva lies :hmmm:
I guess then it is Tucker Carlson's, the ex pres. bdo, and some republican governors' business, to tell you to not get vaccinated.
I guess anyone would be more qualified than those mentioned.
Maybe it's me, because I do not see Skybirds advise as medical orders, but more as advise.
Markus
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 12:37 PM
Maybe because a good part of the world has had enough with politically biased opinions and lies :hmmm:
I guess then it is Tucker Carlson's business, to tell you to not get vaccinated :yeah:
Well, Skybird is not the world. He is a person who strongly believes the vaccine should be taken no matter what. That is fine. On the other hand, there are people who strongly believe the vaccine in a untested state and not safe. That is also fine. Tucker Carlson, although an interesting media figure, is not my doctor. Nor is any of the other talking heads. In fact, my doctor never asked me if I got the COVID vaccine. She was more interested in the shingles vaccine for me. :hmmm:
Texas Red
08-04-21, 01:21 PM
On the contrary, colds can happen any time of the year. Our eldest daughter had a cold 2 weeks ago. Our youngest daughter just got over a cold she caught from her boyfriend. Just cause you sniffle does not mean you have COVID.
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/109760621_10158902716102189_4216532059985020503_n. jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=oxGJh1q_fLMAX8t81iC&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=e585ff358736231513f4ddc55ef4fa87&oe=612D9C28
I left out a good part of the details.
1. I have woke up every morning with a bloody nose, like a really bad one. Last one I had bled straight through two of my sheets and onto my mattress
2. Minor headache and my joints ache
3. My throat is really dry and sore, and whenever I swallow it hurts like Hell.
4. My nose is so stuffy that I have to breathe out of my mouth
5. Not to mention my voice is croaky.
Right now, it seems like a bad case of Influenza.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 01:29 PM
I left out a good part of the details.
1. I have woke up every morning with a bloody nose, like a really bad one. Last one I had bled straight through two of my sheets and onto my mattress
2. Minor headache and my joints ache
3. My throat is really dry and sore, and whenever I swallow it hurts like Hell.
4. My nose is so stuffy that I have to breathe out of my mouth
5. Not to mention my voice is croaky.
Right now, it seems like a bad case of Influenza.
I hope feel better soon!
Skybird
08-04-21, 01:56 PM
There is no argument here. You do what you believe you need to do. As far as carelessly spreading the virus you must have missed the portion of my post that states those vaccinated are still getting infected.
Its another thing you do not get. Haven't you noticed that since months Delta spreads much faster than the earlier strains, and that it causes more younger people to become ill? That is because it has a CT value of around 24, whereas Alpha and follow ups had the CT at around 34. The lower, the more dangerous, the CT value deals with how many times the virus must replicate to become dangerous in total viorus numbers, infectious. A low iteraton signals here is a virus variant that intially comes with a much higher virus load, and so needs less iterations to overwhelm the host, making him ill. It faster.
That means the infected spreads the desease in greater quantity and quality, and in shorter time. He sprays around heavier virus loads. We know the difference between how long Alpha strains and Delta strain stay infectous on an infected person, and can infect other people. The difference is five days. Deltas stay five days longer infectous for other peopel, than earlier strains. Five days in whcih you run around asmyptomatic and infetc other people with 1200 higher vorus loads than before with Alpha.
- edit: Thinking of it, I am uncertain whether I mistake the earlier variants with vaccinated people here. Its possible. But the logic behind it stays the same. -
Some of those you infect stay asymptomtic. Some suffer a mild form. Loosers they are, the pulled the duds! But there will also be those who are vulnerable, due to obesity, diabetes, age, immune system supressing medication and so forth, these become ill, too. And they are winners, they get the golden entry ticket for the big shiny hospital show, all extra acts included. And some of them die, the yget their names on golden plates hanged up on the walls.
Now, if you run five days longer around infecting peoplel, you make more of these people happy winners. Be proud of yourself, you bring people luck!
And then there is another aspect that you already seem to have deleted from your memory, althoguzh it is not loign time ago you had it happenign in your country, in our countries here, all over the world. Say, there is a highway at your place, and it crosses under two bridges that are one mile apart, and lets think per day, per 24 hours interval, you have - well, I don't know, over that 24 hours you have lets say 200,000 cars passing this mile. Is that a rewölaustco value, 200000? I dont know, its not important anyway. You have 200000 cars on that piece of tarmac over a period of 24 hours. Now imagine you have the same 200000 cars on that mile not in 24 hours, but in lets say 15 minutes. How does the traffic look like then? You probaaly have a traffic jam, and the cars standing, creeping along? No more fluid traffic passing on?
That 1mile of highway is a hospital. the 24 hours are a year. The 200000 cars are the emergence rate of patients. That 15 minutes is one pandemic wave period.
Add one and one together.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 02:15 PM
Its another thing you do not get. Haven't you noticed that since months Delta spreads much faster than the earlier strains, and that it causes more younger people to become ill? That is because it has a CT value of around 24, whereas Alpha and follow ups had the CT at around 34. The lower, the more dangerous, the CT value deals with how many times the virus must replicate to become dangerous in total viorus numbers, infectious. A low iteraton signals here is a virus variant that intially comes with a much higher virus load, and so needs less iterations to overwhelm the host, making him ill. It faster.
That means the infected spreads the desease in greater quantity and quality, and in shorter time. He sprays around heavier virus loads. We know the difference between how long Alpha strains and Delta strain stay infectous on an infected person, and can infect other people. The difference is five days. Deltas stay five days longer infectous for other peopel, than earlier strains. Five days in whcih you run around asmyptomatic and infetc other people with 1200 higher vorus loads than before with Alpha.
- edit: Thinking of it, I am uncertain whether I mistake the earlier variants with vaccinated people here. Its possible. But the logic behind it stays the same. -
Some of those you infect stay asymptomtic. Some suffer a mild form. Loosers they are, the pulled the duds! But there will also be those who are vulnerable, due to obesity, diabetes, age, immune system supressing medication and so forth, these become ill, too. And they are winners, they get the golden entry ticket for the big shiny hospital show, all extra acts included. And some of them die, the yget their names on golden plates hanged up on the walls.
Now, if you run five days longer around infecting peoplel, you make more of these people happy winners. Be proud of yourself, you bring people luck!
And then there is another aspect that you already seem to have deleted from your memory, althoguzh it is not loign time ago you had it happenign in your country, in our countries here, all over the world. Say, there is a highway at your place, and it crosses under two bridges that are one mile apart, and lets think per day, per 24 hours interval, you have - well, I don't know, over that 24 hours you have lets say 200,000 cars passing this mile. Is that a rewölaustco value, 200000? I dont know, its not important anyway. You have 200000 cars on that piece of tarmac over a period of 24 hours. Now imagine you have the same 200000 cars on that mile not in 24 hours, but in lets say 15 minutes. How does the traffic look like then? You probaaly have a traffic jam, and the cars standing, creeping along? No more fluid traffic passing on?
That 1mile of highway is a hospital. the 24 hours are a year. The 200000 cars are the emergence rate of patients. That 15 minutes is one pandemic wave period.
Add one and one together.
You have this odd picture of me in your mind running around spewing snot at people. :hmmm: You have this odd picture of me in your mind touching everything in the store and people around me then picking my nose after checking on the piece of chicken stuck between my teeth. In short, I do the recommended CDC guidelines of masks, washing hands and social distancing. It has worked now for a better part of a year and a half while waiting on a vaccine that I'm not taking in it's infancy. Why should I stop any of that now? I know...the new virus as worse.
Rockstar
08-04-21, 02:31 PM
Furthermore not only was it estimated 50% percent of the U.S. carried COVID antibodies in March 2021. Projections estimate the U.S. will reach herd immunity Jul-Aug 2021. Guess what month this is?
At the time herd immunity is near, roughly half of the immunity will be achieved through natural infection, and the other half will be achieved through vaccination.
You may continue with your derpy vax, anti vax political arguments, just know they don’t matter.
Onkel Neal
08-04-21, 02:33 PM
I have not gotten the vaccine. I'm the wait and see group because the vaccine was rushed to market. To many, "it should, maybe, perhaps, not sure, we will see, we don't know" for me. We now see that that variants are coming almost monthly. Those vaccinated are being warned to wear masks. Your vaccine may or may not help. You can still carry the virus in the nasal passages. Is the original vaccine good for a year? Will a booster be required? Once again, "it should, maybe, perhaps, not sure, we will see, we don't know" has reared it's uncertain head again.
?
Well, it's good to have some people unvaccinated to repopulate the earth in case the vaccine wipes us out in a couple years.
Another variant. Is anyone comfortable with the current vaccine administered?
Yeah, until I start hearing otherwise.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 02:37 PM
Well, it's good to have some people unvaccinated to repopulate the earth in case the vaccine wipes us out in a couple years.
I depends if Viagra is still being manufactured and there is a willing participant.
Skybird
08-04-21, 02:38 PM
You have this odd picture of me in your mind running around spewing snot at people. :hmmm: You have this odd picture of me in your mind touching everything in the store and people around me then picking my nose after checking on the piece of chicken stuck between my teeth. In short, I do the recommended CDC guidelines of masks, washing hands and social distancing. It has worked now for a better part of a year and a half while waiting on a vaccine that I'm not taking in it's infancy. Why should I stop any of that now? I know...the new virus as worse.
There is a reason why if you have a positive test but suffer no serious symptoms you nevertheless get send into quarantine.
So if you do not test, you have no positive result, but you nevertheless can be ill, and should be in quarantine. You spread, without knowing it. With masksl it is like with everttyhign else, the yredcue risk probabiolties. But they do not neutralise them, and it depends on the mask quality, and the way it gets worn.
If you can smell parfzum or cigarettes thoprugh the mask, which is practically impossible to avoid compeltely, the amsks doe snot sela you completley. And it shouldn't. N95 means it filters a minimum of 95% of construction site-typical particles (dusts and aerosole droplets and so forth).
If you are vaccinated,m you may still be spreaidng. But you do spread a lesser virus load, and for signbficantly less days. You pose less a risk.
It seems, however, that Lambda will rewrite all this. The vaccines seem to be significantly less protective, and the virus even more infectous.
So much for a relaxed autumn.
We need more curing drugs. And of course new vaccines, not just a third dose of the already existing ones. Else even the few seriously smyptamtic will pout heravy stress onh the econ9mcially avbialabole workforce due to the sheer quantity of people getting infected in total. In the UK I read they have towns and regions where supermarkets do not get filled up anbymore. No employees. No, they are not dead. But ill. In Germany, personell stress was present in police and firebrigades, as another exmaple.
Secondary effects in hospitals is that treatment capacities bound by Covid cases is treatment not available for other patients and procedures. And so forth and forth and forth.
We need to keep the number of infections low, even if most are only with mild symptoms. If the total numbers go up, so do the total numbers from shares of seriously symptomatic.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 02:40 PM
Yeah, until I start heading otherwise.
To me, it is now a false sense of security. Specifically with the new variant. The CDC is recommending masks for those vaccinated as well as the would be irresponsible super spreaders that have not had the vaccine. :hmmm:
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 02:46 PM
There is a reason why if you have a positive test but suffer no serious symptoms you nevertheless get send into quarantine.
Thanks for that Skybird. I spent many years as a kid reading my fathers JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) publications. I understand with clarity how it works.
Skybird
08-04-21, 02:54 PM
Furthermore not only was it estimated 50% percent of the U.S. carried COVID antibodies in March 2021. Projections estimate the U.S. will reach herd immunity Jul-Aug 2021. Guess what month this is?
At the time herd immunity is near, roughly half of the immunity will be achieved through natural infection, and the other half will be achieved through vaccination.
You may continue with your derpy vax, anti vax political arguments, just know they don’t matter.
They still dream of herd immunity? :haha:
For Delta it is 90-95%, btw. And Lambda will not care that much anyway. You could as well hope for herd immunity against flu. Or ordinary cold.
Not to mention that immunity declines again. Its proven. It can degrade so far that it does not protect you at all anymore. The time is in the range, depending on the individual person, between 3 and 9 months, something in that range.
OK, its been over four months since I got my second shot (Moderna). I also take a med which suppresses my immune system, something I really need since my immune system went rogue (long before COVID). :doh:
That combo told me that the vaccine would be risky, but I'm still here. :yep:
Buck up, grow some more spine, whatever, and get the bleeping shot already.
All you're doing now is holding the rest of us hostage. See, we don't want to kill anyone or feel responsible for another wave of COVID cases in the ICU. What that means is that you'll need to get used to being treated like a Lepper by your friends and neighbors who have more common sense.
If being the lone wolf and making the Libtards cry is your deal, ponder why its getting more expensive to go to the grocery store. You're not just hurting the rest of us. :up: The US economy is elastic but it has limits.
The sooner we can all get back to normal, the sooner we get back to normal.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 02:58 PM
The sooner we can all get back to normal, the sooner we get back to normal.
Hate to break it to you...COVID is here to stay. This is the normal.
....and it's going to mutate giving the scientist grey hair.
Markus
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 03:04 PM
....and it's going to mutate giving the scientist grey hair.
Markus
Well...job security at the very least.
Hate to break it to you, but COVID isn't going to kill me. :yep:
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 03:08 PM
Hate to break it to you, but COVID isn't going to kill me. :yep:
And that my friend is the best outcome I could hope for! :yeah:
Well, make no mistake, at some point the rest of us will opt to throw you out of the lifeboat. :yep:
Many already have and they have no sympathy for the chowder heads who refuse to get the vaccine.
The sooner we can all get back to normal, the sooner we get back to normal. The powers that be don't want that, if they did, their "mandates" and recommendations would be based on common sense of which they have very little if any.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 03:40 PM
Well, make no mistake, at some point the rest of us will opt to throw you out of the lifeboat. :yep:
Many already have and they have no sympathy for the chowder heads who refuse to get the vaccine.
Sorry friend that's not how it works. I did not ask for your sympathy.
Consider for a moment that there are very few memorials for Eff-ups. :yep:
Off the top of my head there's only Mao. Stalin had some but they were quietly taken down after he died.
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 03:57 PM
Consider for a moment that there are very few memorials for Eff-ups. :yep:
Off the top of my head there's only Mao. Stalin had some but they were quietly taken down after he died.
Now now, let's not start calling me a eff-up.
Reading this thread makes me want to get covid, again, then start chasing down the forum vaccine nazis and hocking a huge loogies at them, right in the face mask. Is it wrong to feel this way?
You got your precious shot that apparently protects you less and less with every press release. Stop trying to justify your decision by forcing everyone else to take it too. Both the vaccinated and un-vaccinated may still rue their decisions at some point but if the latter is forced into taking these drugs now and later on we find out there are long term side effects they are going to be rightfully pissed off about it.
As for these new variants.
It took the drug companies from march to august of 2020 to create vaccines against covid. They've known about the delta variant since dec of 2020 and Lambda since August of that year. Why are there no vaccines targeted for those variants yet?
Are the original vaccines with their fading effectiveness all we are ever going to see?
My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.
There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason
Markus
AVGWarhawk
08-04-21, 05:05 PM
My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.
There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason
Markus
All good reasons.
Skybird
08-04-21, 06:02 PM
My dear friends it doesn't help us cherry picking on each others.
There are members who has taken the shot for a reason
There are members who do not take the shot for a reason
There are members who await before taking the shot for a reason
Markus
Heck, how much longer do people need to wait? We will have a breat summer, yeah, sure. But at their pace I wonder whether it will be 2024 or 2025, or even later.
I, like many others, would not care if some do not care for getting vaccinated. Where I start to care is when somebody makes a choice that is not in its consequences limited to himself, but if he expects, almost sentences others to share the risk for them that he had decided to take for himself. If somebody for example chooses to ride on a motorbike fast and not wearing a helmet, I do not care (I would only demand that the common health insurrance that i also have to pay into, must not pay his treatment and that social insurrance that I also must pay into must to feed his family if he has an accident and gets insured or kills himself.) You have this principle in quite some insurrances, don't you: they pay if you need to compensate for something you have caused accidentally, but if you intentionally caused havoc, or negligent, they do not pay or you have to contribute a share yourself to their compensation payments to the other.
The other has no right to demand me to pay for the consequences of his choices made, and if he would even demand me or my parents to also ride bicycle without helmet to take the risks ourselves that he hasd chosen for himself, agfain I would reject that. My soldiarity for the brutla egoism of the other ends right there: where his freedom is abused by him to turn it into simply brutal egoism. Too many, very many, say "Its my freedom!" but what they really mean is taking a free ride at all other's expenses. No, thanks.
Antivaccers expect all others to share their risk. Here is where it starts to not be just individual choice and personal freedom, but runs into communal and social responsibility. Its not like deciding whether or not to get a tatoo or have a vegan meal on relgious holdiay or not - its a decision made on putting risks, costs, consequences on all others. That way you claim rights that are not yours, that nobody really has. Your right to make free choices ends where your choice denies that same right to the others and where you imply the other must compensate you for your choice. Thats what self responsibility really si about: to shouklder the consequences oyu cause yourself, and keep them away from the others so that the ymust not pay your bills and must not live your risks because you do not care for them.
Thats why I say many of those yellign about their rights, ion truthz are just brutal, careless egoists. Because where there are rights there also uzst be duties, and there can be no freedom without limits to your freedonm that prtects the others from your claims. If we do not have this, then we have anarchy and the law of the strongest. Granted, that is freedom. The freedom of the law of the jungle. Enjoy.
If the risk of not vaccinating would be limited and the economic consequences being reduced and limited to only the antivaccers themselves, I would not care. I would make sure they have this freedom, so that evolution can have its way and sort as many of them out as possible. But it is not that way. Their refusal affects me, and puts me at risk, my parents are put at risk, the econoym is at risk, the community is at risk - and all this is more at risk than is unavoidable due to the nature of this danger. Antivaccers claim the right to raise the costs for everybody, and to increase the risks for all others. And that is what I do not tolerate and where I turn against them wmith detemrination. I am unforgivable on them now. Enough is enough. It has been one and a half year!
That the arguments of antivaccers all too often are proxies for general politcial opposition, polarization, radicalisation, social and political dissatisfaction and so forth, does not make it better. Nor does it help that all too often I fail to see the reason or the logical content in anti-vaccers' arguments. Much oif what they say often simply is wrong. Conspiration. Provokation.
My tolerance has limits, and these are reached here. I have mocked and attacked Macronman so often in the past years that i think I can claim immunity from the suspicion that I have strong sympathies for him, but in his stand and policy, no matter his motives, this time he is right on target. If Amercans think it is bad in their country, I recommend they do not look at what France mulls in pressures for unvaccinated, it might cost them their sleep. Not to mention nations in Asia.
Also, this. Due to tourist ressorts' demand, the EU has - stupidly - allowed that US tourists can travel to Europe. And quite some of them bring in more support for the desease. The iofneciton comes with them like with any travelling wave anywhere. So their status in the US with the pandemic, affects us in Europe as well. In return, the US completely blocks even important business travels and visa and European tourists into the US. Even if they are vaccinated. Even if they are negatively tested. Even if they gained natural immmunity from having had Covid, and got completely healthy again. I do not crioticise the US for this. They dod the right ting there. The motives behind it may be the right ones or other ones, I do not care - its the effect I focus on.
We have seen it again and again and again and again. This needless international long range travelling tremendously speeds the pandemic. It should have been stopped long time ago. That it isn't, reflects the incompetence and lack of ethical responsibility in the political personnel. Holidays is no argument to claim permission that ferogn natiosn must let you on. You have to ask the wonwerts of other palces for permission. No matter whether you are tourist, business traveller, economic migrant or asylum seeker - you must ask for permission by the owner if the place you go to already is occupied and owned.
3catcircus
08-04-21, 06:32 PM
The powers that be don't want that, if they did, their "mandates" and recommendations would be based on common sense of which they have very little if any.
This. So much this.
The messaging doesn't match the data. If the "authorities" were trust-worthy, their messaging would be something along the lines of "by the data we have, it's clear that x-y-z, but we're being risk-averse so we're recommending masks, distancing, etc. even though the data is inconclusive."
That, at least, I could understand. But when the messaging is "pay attention to the science, except when it is counter to our narrative. Don't pay attention to that science," it makes them less trustworthy than non-experts.
When your liberty holds me hostage, we have a problem. :yep:
The vaccines in the US and Europe are effective for Covid19 and its variants. Its not a cure, however. It means that if you get the newer variants you'll feel crappy for a few days. It also means you WON'T be taking up valuable space in the ICU. :up:
When your liberty holds me hostage, we have a problem. :yep:
The vaccines in the US and Europe are effective for Covid19 and its variants. Its not a cure, however. It means that if you get the newer variants you'll feel crappy for a few days. It also means you WON'T be taking up valuable space in the ICU. :up:
True, however we do not know what the future brings us in term of mutated corona viruses and to stay on top you need to take a jab every 6/8 month a booster so to say
Markus
True, however we do not know what the future brings us in term of mutated corona viruses and to stay on top you need to take a jab every 6/8 month a booster so to say
Markus
What we DO know is what happens to the folks who don't get the vaccine. :yep: There are hospitals in the US that are still overflowing with patients. Guess what those patients have in common? :yep: Same as last Winter, they aren't vaccinated.
Its really a simple choice. Don't get the shot and roll dice you won't end up in an ICU with a tube down your throat. Or, get the stupid shot and go on with your life.
What we DO know is what happens to the folks who don't get the vaccine. :yep: There are hospitals in the US that are still overflowing with patients. Guess what those patients have in common? :yep: Same as last Winter, they aren't vaccinated.
Its really a simple choice. Don't get the shot and roll dice you won't end up in an ICU with a tube down your throat. Or, get the stupid shot and go on with your life.
I was thinking on those who got the vaccine..I know 15-20 % of those who get infected will end up in the hospital and some of them in a respirator.
While the number of people ending in the hospital in USA it's different here in Denmark..The number of infected is high despite this the number in hospital goes down and sometime up little and almost all of our restriction has been removed since couple of weeks back
Markus
Rockstar
08-04-21, 07:38 PM
What we DO know is what happens to the folks who don't get the vaccine. :yep: There are hospitals in the US that are still overflowing with patients.. Name three, and don’t quote a headline, bring in the statistics. Most metro hospitals already operate at near capacity. Guess what those patients have in common? :yep: Same as last Winter, they aren't vaccinated. Don’t forget, the other things they have in common such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, broken limbs, stabbing & gunshot victims. If you want do your part so as not overfill ICU’s go jogging ten miles a day, eat tofu, and lots of fruit and vegetables and yoga.
Its really a simple choice. Don't get the shot and roll dice you won't end up in an ICU with a tube down your throat. Or, get the stupid shot and go on with your life.. Yep, now let us know how many miles you ran today and what your doing to reduce the chance of heart attack or stroke. Because those are back to being the leading causes of death and keep our hospitals at near capacity with or without COVID. Good luck to ya, keep us posted. ;)
How many percentage of those who died from Corona had an underlaying sickness and how old were they ?
Here in Denmark and Sweden it's very clear. If you are suffering from some other disease a corona infection can be deadly... It can also be deadly for a fresh person at high age.
Markus
Rockstar
08-04-21, 08:01 PM
I haven’t laughed this hard in a long time
https://youtu.be/5_u8y4axllA
. Name three, and don’t quote a headline, bring in the statistics. Most metro hospitals already operate at near capacity. Don’t forget, the other things they have in common such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, broken limbs, stabbing & gunshot victims. If you want do your part so as not overfill ICU’s go jogging ten miles a day, eat tofu, and lots of fruit and vegetables and yoga.
. Yep, now let us know how many miles you ran today and what your doing to reduce the chance of heart attack or stroke. Because those are back to being the leading causes of death and keep our hospitals at near capacity with or without COVID. Good luck to ya, keep us posted. ;)
Sorry, Senator, I'm not going to violate the next-of-kin by giving a list of names or addresses to shoot down your feeble point. :har:
You want a list of names? Try asking a Dr. or ICU Nurse and see what they tell you. :up:
Just do me one favor, please? Next time, bring your A game. :haha:
Want to know why Texas covid rates are so high? The Democrats in action:
More than 1,500 coronavirus-positive migrants released in one week into Texas border town.
by Anna Giaritelli, Homeland Security Reporter August 04, 2021 04:55 PM
MCALLEN, Texas — A border city in south Texas declared a local disaster this week as it struggles to respond to surging cases of the coronavirus among migrants as thousands are released by the Border Patrol onto the street every week.
Last week, a record-high 7,000 migrants were released in downtown McAllen, where they were immediately tested for the coronavirus through a city contractor. More than 1,500 people tested positive over the past seven days, according to a city document issued Wednesday, compared to a total of 7,000 confirmed cases over the past five months. Those who test positive are told to quarantine for two days but are ultimately released into the public.
The city said in a statement that the "shockingly large number of immigrants" released by Customs and Border Protection into the city overwhelmed Catholic Charities, which provides humanitarian services in the city for migrants. "This significant change increases the threat of COVID spread or other lawlessness within the city," the city said.
The Catholic Charities shelter downtown has taken in migrants released by federal border authorities for seven years but has never seen numbers like those over the past few weeks. In early July, the shelter averaged 750 arrivals daily, increasing to 1,100, and up to 1,900 per day in the first few days of August. The center is only approved to hold 1,236 people at a time.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/more-than-1-500-covid-19-positive-migrants-released-in-one-week-texas-border-town
Rockstar
08-04-21, 09:22 PM
Sorry, Senator, I'm not going to violate the next-of-kin by giving a list of names or addresses to shoot down your feeble point. :har:
You want a list of names? Try asking a Dr. or ICU Nurse and see what they tell you. :up:
Just do me one favor, please? Next time, bring your A game. :haha:
You brought it up, I didn’t. Name three hospitals that are overwhelmed, just three that are serving our 350 million strong populace. I looked at Johns Hopkins COVID dashboard I didn’t see any, maybe I missed something. Help me out.
I also want you to develop an exercise program and diet plan. Don’t clutter up my ICU’s because you had a heart attack on account of your poor health and too many cheeseburgers. Let’s go troop, I want to see your log book detailing your program and eating habits to make sure it reduces the load on my ICU’s. I got mine I want you to start one tomorrow, it’s for your own good. You don’t seem to know what’s good for you I demand you do this because I think it’s a good idea.
https://thecovidblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Obese-McDonalds-mask.png
Buddahaid
08-04-21, 09:28 PM
Want to know why Texas covid rates are so high? The Democrats in action:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/more-than-1-500-covid-19-positive-migrants-released-in-one-week-texas-border-town
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58077311
Sorry, Senator, I'm not going to violate the next-of-kin by giving a list of names or addresses to shoot down your feeble point. :har:
You want a list of names? Try asking a Dr. or ICU Nurse and see what they tell you. :up:
Just do me one favor, please? Next time, bring your A game. :haha:
Let me help you out: https://www.cdc.gov/nhsn/covid19/report-patient-impact.html#anchor_1594392704
Skybird
08-05-21, 02:10 AM
Isaid it before and say it again. If you drive without seatbelts and crash and fly through the windshield and are dead, you did not die of your fatness, your skin colour, ylur recent heart attack or your smoking, but you die because you did not fasten your seat belt.
Rockstar
08-05-21, 05:48 AM
Yes seatbelts save lives and I’m all for them. I am also of the opinion that ones own personal health will determine the bodies response to the treatment of injury, sickness and disease. Even so I also suggest getting a vaccine and if you did good for you and if you didn’t good for you too. Leave people alone let them live their life as they see fit. If you’ve been vaccinated then those that didn’t shouldn’t be a threat. If anyone wants complain about something how about placing politics aside and find the origin of this virus and if it is from GOF experiments hang the bastards that developed it so it doesn’t happen again.
The initial response to COVID was to prevent overwhelming hospital ICU intake. Mission accomplished. Vaccines are not miracle cures. You can be vaccinated yet be in such poor health vaccinated or not you’ll still die from the flu.
Get up off your lazy arses people and go work out, don’t be such lazy eff-ups it could save your life and others by not cluttering up my ICU’s for the people who really need it. I want you to carry a log book with you at all times too so it can be shown how many miles you are running, jogging or hiking. I also want that signed by a witness and or a physician. We want strong hearts people because there may be a link between stimulating the immune system through vaccinations and atherogenesis.
I can’t wait for the latest Seroprevalence studies.
Rockstar
08-05-21, 06:55 AM
Hey what do ya know California doesn’t even bother with tracking seroprevalence. You know I’m kinda thinking it’s because as of 9 July 2021 damn near everyone they test has antibodies. That’s called herd immunity isn’t it? Or do you people consider it misinformation because it interferes with your virtue signaling and quest for facebook likes.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Sero-prevalence-COVID-19-Data.aspx?TSPD_101_R0=087ed344cfab2000c894b5aca735 966c97337ced996bd76bfc1bc62d7be76e9c73783050d04221 c30896b6ed5914300078da4275c724814c423047e8b02b6a85 175477d360a54099cd788ab56e4573c8055ec3fdf4941be7a8 ffb48dd4185a6f
Skybird
08-05-21, 07:13 AM
You give the impression of certainties where you should limit yourself to think in probabilities only. Many healthy-living, trained athletes caught it and were brought down by it and chewing on it for months, too, you know. Young students excercising severla times per week. Competitive sportsmen.
Its not only the old, the weak, the already ill. And it must not always be the ICU. Long Covid can chew you to pieces and then spit you out, too. For months.
Thats why I do not promote, and never have promoted just one or two measures, and then forget all the others. Each of these measures is a probability modifier. Not more, not less. Collect as many of them as you can. Excercise, okay. Eat healthy, okay. Take Vit-D, Magnesium, K2, okay. Vaccinate, okay. Wear a mask, okay, socially distance yourself, fine. But vaccination is a very major modifier, maybe the biggest in the game. Maybe that will change with Lambda, Japanese data is not encouraging, but for the time being we are still about Delta, and the dseocnd jab and then 14 days later means for some time a proteciton level around 95%, plus minus 1 or 2o %, depending on whom you ask. And you are a risk for others five days less than unvaccinated (9 days compared to 14 days).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58077311
Uh huh. Yet here we are anyways so either that story is bull or it's lip service only.
What we DO know is what happens to the folks who don't get the vaccine.
Yeah 99% of them have no ill effects whatsoever. Stop pretending that catching it is a death sentence.
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 07:32 AM
What we DO know is what happens to the folks who don't get the vaccine.
Yes I do. I talk to all three of them every day.
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 07:34 AM
THALIDOMIDE
https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation
Again, much to early for me. Eventually I will get the vaccine.
Onkel Neal
08-05-21, 08:59 AM
There is a vaccine and it works. If you decided to get vaccinated, good for you, but since non-vaccinated people pose no threat to you, there's no need to nag about it. Let them deal with COVID and we can get on with our lives.
There is a vaccine and it works. If you decided to get vaccinated, good for you, but since non-vaccinated people pose no threat to you, there's no need to nag about it. Let them deal with COVID and we can get on with our lives.
Have you not been paying attention? If you listen to the CDC, Whitehouse, and various so called "experts", It doesn't matter whether you are vaccinated or not, they still want you to mask up. And If the unvaccinated continue to be obstinate about getting it, they are going to make them get it. In my neck of the woods there are businesses that are requiring proof of vaccination to enter the establishment with hardly any dissent from the press or the government. Where does it end?
"If you Give an inch, they will take a mile."
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 09:25 AM
And If the unvaccinated continue to be obstinate about getting it, they are going to make them get it.
Obamacare comes to mind. Soon a fine/penalty if the vaccine is not taken. Please send in proof of vaccination with your tax returns.
Rockstar
08-05-21, 09:31 AM
According to actual science California has pretty much reached herd immunity and based on projections I’d wager most of the country has too. Though I will acknowledge there may remain some hot spots. But like I said earlier what’s driving this now is Facebook likes, funding and divisive party politics. Look at the headlines not a damn thing is said about statistics, science, seroprevalence, origins, vaccine and treatment improvements. Just a bunch a buffoons arguing over what politician cares and what ones don’t because of who promotes social distancing, masks, and passports. But people love it, they crave it, because it fills the void in their naive and empty lives.
Politicians ought to be working to improve things but it seems they like to keep the controversy going.
Onkel Neal
08-05-21, 09:38 AM
Have you not been paying attention? If you listen to the CDC, Whitehouse, and various so called "experts", It doesn't matter whether you are vaccinated or not, they still want you to mask up. And If the unvaccinated continue to be obstinate about getting it, they are going to make them get it. In my neck of the woods there are businesses that are requiring proof of vaccination to enter the establishment with hardly any dissent from the press or the government. Where does it end?
"If you Give an inch, they will take a mile."
They want vaccinated people to mask up to protect the unvaccinated people. Just ignore the CDC and you'll be fine.
Obamacare comes to mind. Soon a fine/penalty if the vaccine is not taken. Please send in proof of vaccination with your tax returns.
The penalty for not taking out health insurance was the best part of Obamacare. Now without it, the uninsured still get care but the insured have to pay for it.
Everyone wants everyone to carry cards now. (https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-wants-supporters-to-carry-trump-cards-2021-8?amp)
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 09:40 AM
But people love it, they crave it, because it fills the void in their naive and empty lives.
True! My wife has a friend on FB and this is all she posts about. She needs a new hobby in her retirement.
Skybird
08-05-21, 10:13 AM
Like France, Germany plans to tightne them thumbscrews on antivaccers. From september on even supermarket and drugstore shopping should be possible only with proof of vaccination or negative PCR test or recovery and at least one vaccination. At the same time the PCXR tests wikll no loner be free, and since they cost 70-90 Euros, in holiday tourist traps even more, and last only for some time, it will beocme very expensive to do them again and again just for buying food and things of the ordinary everyday life.
You can still get on without vaccination, but it will become very costly for the average Joe.
Its manouvering by the Gewrman government to force people getting the jab without the government being formally accused of forcing people by command to get the jab. The French did it simplier, and simply ordered it. I think that is more straight, and honest. How Merkel does it (as so often before), the alibi democracy gets even more revealed as right this: an alibi. This will rightfully raise more sentiments against it.
(But since I am no fan of this system anymore anyway, I do not really care for these subtelties. I just take note of the collateral damage they do by their weasel maneuvers.)
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 10:15 AM
You can still get on without vaccination, but it will become very costly for the average Joe.
Glad my name is Chris. :Kaleun_Wink:
Mr Quatro
08-05-21, 11:02 AM
Like France, Germany plans to tightne them thumbscrews on antivaccers. From september on even supermarket and drugstore shopping should be possible only with proof of vaccination or negative PCR test or recovery and at least one vaccination.
So it's finally going to come down to this (at least in Germany for now) :hmmm:
Sure sounds like the anti-christ (which isn't due for several more years) making everyone to have a mark on their hand or on the forehead in order to buy or sell anything. :yep:
Vaccine Passports hahaha. They had better start making them resistant to counterfeiting.
A vendor on Amazon was discovered selling a pack of blank COVID-19 vaccination cards this week. The post has since been removed, but photos reshared online showed a 10-pack of blank cards going for $12.99.
In the U.S., actually getting a COVID-19 vaccine and receiving a legitimate vaccination card is free.
The small white piece of cardstock given to Americans after receiving all necessary COVID-19 shots is the only official way to show some proof of full immunization on the fly. But according to the Federal Trade Commission, those simple cards, easily replicated by fraudsters, never were designed to prove vaccination status long term.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/1004264531/fake-covid-vaccine-cards-keep-getting-sold-online-using-one-is-a-crime
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 11:06 AM
Vaccine Passports hahaha. They had better start making them resistant to counterfeiting.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/1004264531/fake-covid-vaccine-cards-keep-getting-sold-online-using-one-is-a-crime
That already started directly after FB users posted pictures of their vaccine card. :-?
For someone working at the drug store i imagine that it would be easy enough to swipe a pack or three of them. I'm sure they aren't controlled.
Here in Denmark it's mandatory to have a vaccine passport for certain events...this will be removed slowly.
Secondly Rockstar is correct a person who live unhealthy does not have the right to point fingers at those who chose not to take the jab.
Markus
Rockstar
08-05-21, 12:17 PM
Some people are getting tired of the B.S. others seem flourish in it because they think it matters. Social distancing is now perpetuated by politicians for their own reasons. I’m waiting for someone in charge to talk about some useful information like seroprevelance, herd immunity statistics, vaccine science, real time statistics on variations and mutations. Such as how its known 2/3rds of India’s population have anti-bodies, yet we hear nothing about our own situation. What worked what didn’t, origin, a good job to all for doing their part. Nope what wouldn’t please the virtue signally, nosey little Karens at all, Poor little girls would have nothing to complain about. ;)
Jimbuna
08-05-21, 01:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9IEBa2B14
Jimbuna
08-05-21, 01:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A8Gmxz77xg
Jimbuna
08-05-21, 01:12 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/dVNR5wS2/119801367-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-05aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/87Wr5QGc)
Skybird
08-05-21, 01:14 PM
I agree that politicians, like always, try to "make a quick dollar" from the circumstances to boost their powerpolitical interests and/or careers.
Damn parasitical mades.
Nothing I propose on how to behave with the pandemic I propose due to a felt sense of obedience of mine towards state authority, or anything like that. Instead I take what I can get from the usual media input and publicly published studies, weigh it as best as I can, and try to make sense of it. Then I conclude. I do not care whether my conclusions agree with what the government and its proxies claim, say, demand or suggest. Its not relevant for me. If I agree with their suggestions: fine. If I do not, I would not have a problem with that either. Their famous words do not matter to me. I do not do things for them, but because to me things make sense the way I suggest them and think of them.
Skybird
08-05-21, 01:26 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/delta-variant-more-dangerous-children-growing-number-kids-are-very-n1276035
What is obvious now, experts say, is that surges in pediatric cases are due to the variant's hypertranmissibility (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/delta-variant-now-accounts-83-percent-new-covid-cases-n1274482), circulating in a population left unvaccinated and therefore vulnerable to the virus.
"If more children get sicker, that's just because more kids are getting sick," said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine researcher at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "It's clearly increased contagiousness, not increased virulence."
Children have been susceptible to Covid-19 all along. More than 4.1 million children have been diagnosed with Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic, accounting for 14.3 percent of all cases, according to the latest data from the American Academy of Pediatrics (https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/).
From July 15 to July 29, that percentage rose to 19 percent of weekly reported cases.
"Over the course of the first year of this pandemic, the myth existed that children never got very ill from Covid," Kline said. That was mainly because the number of pediatric cases was relatively low.
Because the delta variant is so contagious, he said, the increase in cases clearly shows the virus's potential, even in young, otherwise healthy children.
"This delta variant is an infectious disease specialist's worst nightmare," Kline said.
Well, if he liked Delta, then he will love Lambda. First Japanese data is anything but encouraging.
Catfish
08-05-21, 02:41 PM
I agree that politicians, like always, try to "make a quick dollar" from the circumstances to boost their powerpolitical interests and/or careers. [...]
It does not always work ..
"A leader of the Texas Republican Party hopped on Facebook in May to post about a “mask burning” party 900 miles away in Cincinnati.
“I wished I lived in the area!” wrote H Scott Apley.
The month before, Apley responded to what Baltimore’s former health commissioner was heralding as “great news” — clinical trials showed the Pfizer vaccine was effective at fighting the coronavirus, including one of the recent variants, for at least six months.
“You are an absolute enemy of a free people,” he wrote in a Twitter reply.
And on Friday, the 45-year-old Dickinson City Council member republished a Facebook post implying that vaccines don’t work.
Two days later, Apley was admitted to a Galveston hospital with “pneumonia-like symptoms” and tested positive for coronavirus, according to an online fundraising campaign. He was sedated and put on a ventilator."
Now he is dead.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/05/texas-gop-leader-antimask-antivax-dies-covid/
Skybird
08-05-21, 02:44 PM
Hehehe, sometimes lightning strikes the right one.
I can easily keep myself from feigning dismay.
CheckSix
08-05-21, 03:15 PM
My word there are some glassy eyed fanatics amongst us. No doubt they feel the same about old German ladies being clubbed to the floor for having an opinion on the matter.
Intubation is tantamount to murder btw.
They should have given him Ivermectin.
But then they wouldn't have got paid as much.
Concerning the unutterable stupidity of attempting to mount a 'vaccine' campaign in the midst of a pandemic, the cases and deaths from variants are following the curve of the mystery synthetic RNA injections it seems.
Perhaps this is the immune escape we were warned of by Geert Vanden Bossche amongst others. (DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine expert, formerly employed at GAVI and The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundaton).
This Nobel prize winner for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbF1FNxHXHE
Cue the dancing monkey fact checkers.
Herd immunity can not be archieved because the vaccine isn't enough effective-says the Danish Serum institute
Markus
AVGWarhawk
08-05-21, 03:24 PM
My word there are some glassy eyed fanatics amongst us. No doubt they feel the same about old German ladies being clubbed to the floor for having an opinion on the matter.
Intubation is tantamount to murder btw.
They should have given him Ivermectin.
But then they wouldn't have got paid as much.
Concerning the unutterable stupidity of attempting to mount a 'vaccine' campaign in the midst of a pandemic, the cases and deaths from variants are following the curve of the mystery synthetic RNA injections it seems.
Perhaps this is the immune escape we were warned of by Geert Vanden Bossche amongst others. (DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine expert, formerly employed at GAVI and The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundaton).
This Nobel prize winner for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbF1FNxHXHE
Cue the dancing monkey fact checkers.
Interesting and appears to be very true. I'm a dancing elephant fact checker not a monkey.
But check this out:
The creation of a vaccine for any new virus could also cause additional mutations.
“Any virus is going to try to keep changing, so it can continue to spread. For COVID-19, that means we’ll likely see more new variants. That’s natural and expected. Don’t be too worried about it, the vaccine should help keep us safe. But, that’s why it’s so important for experts to work together around the world to track the COVID-19 variants. It’s also important for you to continue doing your part by getting the COVID-19 vaccine,” Dr. Best says.
https://www.unitypoint.org/article.aspx?id=db428f77-6e61-497b-91ce-1317a3396dd8
Rockstar
08-05-21, 03:37 PM
Herd immunity can not be archieved because the vaccine isn't enough effective-says the Danish Serum institute
Markus
That’s not true. Believe it or not as seroprevelance studies have shown a healthy body can and has worked wonders without injecting politics and science into your arm.
Isaid it before and say it again. If you drive without seatbelts and crash and fly through the windshield and are dead, you did not die of your fatness, your skin colour, ylur recent heart attack or your smoking, but you die because you did not fasten your seat belt.
Don't forget the school bus you plowed into at 80 MPH while you weren't wearing that seat belt. :k_confused:
The Libertarians' will hate this, but we still have to be RESPONSIBLE.
That means WEAR A MASK if you think you're at risk.
WEAR A MASK if you think you could put other people at risk.
Now, where did I put that funnel cake? :hmmm:
Skybird
08-05-21, 03:57 PM
I see myself as "libertarian", and libertarianism and responsibility are unavoidably friends. The political Right and the Grand Orange Party in the US may claim libertarianism and Ayn Rand as theirs, but fact remains that Rand looked down on the Republicans, mocked and ridiculed Reagan, and did not want to have much to do with them. Antivaccers are not necessarily libertarians. In fact I got the impression that most are not.
;)
Libertarianism MEANS taking responsibility for yourself, not leaving it to the state, community, others.
Catfish
08-05-21, 04:02 PM
blahblah
Intubation is tantamount to murder btw.
They should have given him Ivermectin.
But then they wouldn't have got paid as much.
Ivermectin: https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/ivermectin-treat-covid-19-coronavirus-3535912/
Intubation is tantamount to murder? What do you do if a patient is not able to breathe by himself, let him die? Or stuff his throat with Ivermectin? :haha:
And while what Bossche says may be interesting there is no proof, on the contrary most experts have debunked his theories.
CheckSix
08-05-21, 04:03 PM
More of a rationalist, with a healthy streak of libertarianism.
Paper masks are ineffective against viral particulates, as a quick glimpse inside any level 4 virology lab (like Wuhan) will demonstrate.
Baffling that people still wear them, despite the known harmful effects, even after the mandate is removed in some cases.
Sad really.
It took the drug companies from around march to august of 2020 to create vaccines effective against covid. That is just six months to create, not one, but half a dozen or so different vaccines against what was supposed to be an unknown virus.
They've now known about the Delta and Lambda variants since December. Yet all we have to fight them are last years vaccines? Why?
Why are there no vaccines targeted for those variants yet? They can produce a new version of the Influenza vaccine every year yet there is nothing in the news about continuing covid vaccine development.
Libertarianism MEANS taking responsibility for yourself, not leaving it to the state, community, others.
..and protect others by wear facemask where its crowded and follow the regulations set up by your government in your country, state.
Because I will wait before I take the jab BUT!! I'm not in a desire to put other people life at risk or my own.
I have so far NOT have had any symptoms on this Covid-19 virus. This doesn't mean that I had it or have it I act among others like I was infected.
Markus
Skybird
08-05-21, 06:07 PM
More of a rationalist, with a healthy streak of libertarianism.
Paper masks are ineffective against viral particulates, as a quick glimpse inside any level 4 virology lab (like Wuhan) will demonstrate.
Baffling that people still wear them, despite the known harmful effects, even after the mandate is removed in some cases.
Sad really.
These virusses do not fly around pure and naked, they sit on particles, like dust and aerosol droplets. And these are what N95 and N100 masks are designed to filter for sure: particles/droplets, no matter whether they have virusses on them or not.
Onkel Neal
08-05-21, 08:03 PM
It does not always work ..
"A leader of the Texas Republican Party hopped on Facebook in May to post about a “mask burning” party 900 miles away in Cincinnati.
“I wished I lived in the area!” wrote H Scott Apley.
The month before, Apley responded to what Baltimore’s former health commissioner was heralding as “great news” — clinical trials showed the Pfizer vaccine was effective at fighting the coronavirus, including one of the recent variants, for at least six months.
“You are an absolute enemy of a free people,” he wrote in a Twitter reply.
And on Friday, the 45-year-old Dickinson City Council member republished a Facebook post implying that vaccines don’t work.
Two days later, Apley was admitted to a Galveston hospital with “pneumonia-like symptoms” and tested positive for coronavirus, according to an online fundraising campaign. He was sedated and put on a ventilator."
Now he is dead.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/05/texas-gop-leader-antimask-antivax-dies-covid/
Yep. He reaped what he sowed. Now we don't have to listen to him anymore. :yep:
3catcircus
08-06-21, 07:38 AM
Yep. He reaped what he sowed. Now we don't have to listen to him anymore. :yep:
No mention of his comorbidities - it looked he was morbidly obese. Was he diabetic also? No mention of whether or not he had covid, knew it, and was sent home by his doctor to get worse before needing to be hospitalized. Additionally, we've known since last summer that being put on a vent has an 80% chance of a bad outcome.
Aggressive treatment with antivirals or ivermectin at the first signs has a far better outcome, based upon multiple clinical studies. Getting someone on ivermectin right away to deal with covid, assuming they have mild symptoms not requiring hospitalization or supplemental O2, should be the standard of care, same as getting someone on tamiflu within 48 hrs of symptoms when they test positive for the flu. Same as you'd give someone rabies vaccinations right away if they were bit by a known or suspected rabid animal. Same as you'd get someone started on cancer treatments right away rather than letting it progress to stage 4 before starting treatment.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/
https://files.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/guidelines/covid19treatmentguidelines.pdf
It's pretty clear that not all hospitals are using cheap drugs that initial trials show work early in the disease progression for mild cases, nor are they using the proscribed course of treatment to lessen the chances of progression for more serious cases. It's all "go home until you can't breathe, then come back to die here so we can collect them federal bucks..."
Most people don't understand that the progression of disease if you are infected is dependent upon (amongst other factors like comorbidities and genetics) viral load which determines how quickly your immune system can "catch up" from an initial infection. Get a huge amount of virions and your immune system just can't keep up as the virus replicates. Smaller viral loads mean your immune system is closer in that foot race to allow it to catch up and then overwhelm the infected cells before disease progression starts to make it even harder for your bodies immune system to respond.
Buddahaid
08-06-21, 08:33 AM
No mention of his comorbidities - it looked he was morbidly obese. Was he diabetic also? No mention of whether or not he had covid, knew it, and was sent home by his doctor to get worse before needing to be hospitalized. Additionally, we've known since last summer that being put on a vent has an 80% chance of a bad outcome.
Aggressive treatment with antivirals or ivermectin at the first signs has a far better outcome, based upon multiple clinical studies. Getting someone on ivermectin right away to deal with covid, assuming they have mild symptoms not requiring hospitalization or supplemental O2, should be the standard of care, same as getting someone on tamiflu within 48 hrs of symptoms when they test positive for the flu. Same as you'd give someone rabies vaccinations right away if they were bit by a known or suspected rabid animal. Same as you'd get someone started on cancer treatments right away rather than letting it progress to stage 4 before starting treatment.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/
https://files.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/guidelines/covid19treatmentguidelines.pdf
It's pretty clear that not all hospitals are using cheap drugs that initial trials show work early in the disease progression for mild cases, nor are they using the proscribed course of treatment to lessen the chances of progression for more serious cases. It's all "go home until you can't breathe, then come back to die here so we can collect them federal bucks..."
Most people don't understand that the progression of disease if you are infected is dependent upon (amongst other factors like comorbidities and genetics) viral load which determines how quickly your immune system can "catch up" from an initial infection. Get a huge amount of virions and your immune system just can't keep up as the virus replicates. Smaller viral loads mean your immune system is closer in that foot race to allow it to catch up and then overwhelm the infected cells before disease progression starts to make it even harder for your bodies immune system to respond.
So maybe he should have known better than to play roulette.
Catfish
08-06-21, 10:14 AM
No mention of his comorbidities - it looked he was morbidly obese. Was he diabetic also? No mention of whether or not he had covid, knew it, and was sent home by his doctor to get worse before needing to be hospitalized. [...]
Nothing trumps reality.
https://i.imgur.com/rX47aIqh.jpg
3catcircus
08-06-21, 11:39 AM
Nothing trumps reality.
https://i.imgur.com/rX47aIqh.jpg
Conditions known to affect the seriousness of illness for people who contract COVID are being a great big fat person and being a raging diabetic. I would expect those suffering from cystic fibrosis would also be at greater risk of serious illness or death, as would someone who had any other pulmonary or cardiac condition - sleep apnea and hypertension being two that come to mind.
Jimbuna
08-06-21, 12:47 PM
Sixteen and 17-year-olds across the UK are now being invited to book their Covid vaccine.
GPs in England have been told they can contact this age group, while invites are also being sent out in Wales.
In Northern Ireland, walk-in centres are now open to older teenagers, and in Scotland they can register their interest online.
Meanwhile, new figures show most patients in hospital with Covid in England continue to be unvaccinated.
The opening of vaccinations to 16 and 17-year-olds in England comes amid a drive to encourage young people to get jabbed.
The vaccine's benefits will be promoted to partygoers in nightclubs, including Ministry of Sound and Heaven.
A campaign will also be rolled out across social media channels including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat and TikTok, as well as on radio stations Kiss, Capital, Heart, Sunrise, and TalkSport, urging young adults to get jabbed.
Walk-in centres in England will accept people aged 16 and 17 from next week, but those in that age group are currently unable to book an appointment using the NHS website.
In Northern Ireland people aged 16 and up have begun to get the vaccine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58112765
Mark of the beast.
Someone wrote a comment I never seen before... He wrote that this vaccine was the mark of the beast. Reason should be that no one in some countries can't do anything if they doesn't got the vaccine, soon it will be world wide
An interesting point of view I must say-No I do not believe it.
Markus
les green01
08-06-21, 03:24 PM
for the ones here that got the shot i'm glad you got it,the ones like me that hadn't got the shot well glad we hadn't got the virus the ones that had the virus glad you survive here the thing i won't be dictated too by no one i will not have someone come to my door and tell me i got to get the jab if it get try someone going to the hospital i will not have someone tell me what i can or can not do i will not have a job that tells me i need the jab because that between me and my doctor which being a diabetic i see regular for blood work and all that crap and my doctor hasn't mention me getting the shot at first i held off getting the jab so older folks and others like health care and police and others like that could get the shot now it cause i'm being told everywhere i got to have the jab people talk about risk heck being born is risky everyday there is a risk sooner or later you going died nothing you can do about that now granted i would like to cash out with two 18 year old redheads and them girls being the major dream in bed then it can be said i went out with a smile on my face
https://youtu.be/HFHBPvMRvX4
Skybird
08-06-21, 05:18 PM
^ :up:
But however clever the attempts to explain this strange and - I cannot say it any different - stupid attitude: I notice for my own part that I, personally, react increasingly allergic and aggressive to it.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1225837391p4/29333.jpg (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/29333.Dietrich_Bonhoeffer) “Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.”
He wrote that in a different context, in a letter from prison where he was finally assassianted by the Nazis, but stupid is stupid, no matter whether displayed in context with political ideology and regimes, or individual behaviour or mass behaviour in different contexts. His explanations have general value, and I am convinced they are so very true. I wish I could act according to them and remind myself of them more often, that would save me quite some energy.
Are antivaxxer and those who believe in vaccination fabricating lies about each other ?
Just wondering, since I do not follow them you may enlighten me.
Markus
3catcircus
08-06-21, 06:03 PM
Mark of the beast.
Someone wrote a comment I never seen before... He wrote that this vaccine was the mark of the beast. Reason should be that no one in some countries can't do anything if they doesn't got the vaccine, soon it will be world wide
An interesting point of view I must say-No I do not believe it.
Markus
Religious concerns aside, the entire world has gone about this the wrong way. All that has been done with lockdowns, masks, distancing is extending the duration. Whether it is who gets sick or who dies, the total number will be the same in the end.
Every other coronavirus that makes people sick with a cold started out like this one - once it killed a bunch of people, it mutated to the point that it is just a cold. The last coronavirus in the late 1800s took 2 years to become endemic. I fear all we've done is extend that time to much much longer for this coronavirus.
Buddahaid
08-06-21, 06:43 PM
Religious concerns aside, the entire world has gone about this the wrong way. All that has been done with lockdowns, masks, distancing is extending the duration. Whether it is who gets sick or who dies, the total number will be the same in the end.
Every other coronavirus that makes people sick with a cold started out like this one - once it killed a bunch of people, it mutated to the point that it is just a cold. The last coronavirus in the late 1800s took 2 years to become endemic. I fear all we've done is extend that time to much much longer for this coronavirus.
That's just your opinion. My opinion is we could be better off now and not facing a fourth wave if people just got the vaccine ASAP.
Mr Quatro
08-06-21, 07:16 PM
Mark of the beast.
Someone wrote a comment I never seen before... He wrote that this vaccine was the mark of the beast. Reason should be that no one in some countries can't do anything if they doesn't got the vaccine, soon it will be world wide
An interesting point of view I must say-No I do not believe it.
Markus
I did not say that the virus was the same as the mark of the beast Markus, but that it was similar.
These new laws to prove you have your Covid-19 shots to eat or drink or buy or sell are very much like the end times as prophesied.
Forerunners perhaps :yep:
Religious concerns aside, the entire world has gone about this the wrong way. All that has been done with lockdowns, masks, distancing is extending the duration. Whether it is who gets sick or who dies, the total number will be the same in the end.
Every other coronavirus that makes people sick with a cold started out like this one - once it killed a bunch of people, it mutated to the point that it is just a cold. The last coronavirus in the late 1800s took 2 years to become endemic. I fear all we've done is extend that time to much much longer for this coronavirus.
Unfortunately, you have no inkling of how combatting viruses works but are somehow convinced your ignorance is insight, claiming the complete opposite of a sane, rational conclusion.
My mother contracted all known forms of polio a mere year before Salk's vaccine was released to the general public. This was when she was ten years old. It left her confined to a wheelchair, needing a rigid, clamshell fiberglass full torso back brace to be able to sit upright. The strength in her arms was quite limited and she was nearly quadriplegic. Never-the-less, she persevered, married, had what all the doctors in her region agreed (after the fact) was a miraculous pregnancy and (c section) delivery, did all the duties that any other wife and mother could accomplish (as a military spouse then in civilian life, as well) and maintained as much independence as she could manage in her lifetime (transportation on the road in a sidecar driven motorcycle that nobody had to help her board and operate, etc.).
The children that suffered alongside her didn't always fair so well. There were always a percentage of those that died but among survivors there were a growing percentage of those that required the use of an iron lung for the remainder of their lifetimes. There were also some that did not have as severe symptoms that were left with little to no side effects from their experience.
Any who might suggest letting nature take its course and allowing natural selection to kill off the weak until 'herd immunity' was achieved were categorized as ignorant and cruel. Salk's vaccine was rightfully heralded as a modern medicine miracle (that was desperately needed).
As were the vaccines for Small Pox, Whooping Cough, Typhoid Fever, Measles, Yellow Fever, Cholera, Diphtheria and so forth. Mandatory vaccination to prevent large scale outbreaks in schools and the military has existed for over two centuries. I certainly had to go through a battery of shots prior to deployment.
I blame the internet for this widespread embracing of militant ignorance (as well as insulation of people from the need of society versus the misplaced wants of self - even when it comes to the responsibility to their own children). While it's true that no one person can be an expert in all things scientific, medical or otherwise, in all things historical, recent or ancient, in all things political, in any and all ideologies; it seems the most ignorant of humanity tries to express themselves as such on the internet behind the comfort of anonymity be it on forums that actually deal with such matters or forums devoted to online games or human perversions of various nature.
I sincerely regret having found this and a couple of other threads on Subsim and having said my say will attempt to avoid this apparently inevitable underside of discussion that seems part of every forum in existence online (pretending that all my fellow Subsimmers are actually not driven to such vitriolic behavior in public).
:)
Rockstar
08-06-21, 07:23 PM
That's just your opinion. My opinion is we could be better off now and not facing a fourth wave if people just got the vaccine ASAP.
According to California public health you all have reached herd immunity. Where is the fourth wave going to hit?
https://youtu.be/pnElXk_MK1g
Buddahaid
08-06-21, 07:36 PM
Arkansas, Missouri, Louisiana and Florida are pretty exposed and numbers are rising in my hospitals over the last few weeks.
CheckSix
08-06-21, 07:43 PM
'Strange and stupid attitudes' you say?
Here is the latest Public Health England technical briefing on Covid-19 variants of concern.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf
This data refutes the uncorroborated assertions being made concerning vaccine efficacy.
It shows that people who have had at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine account for 39% of all confirmed cases of the Delta Covid-19 variant since February 1st 2021 up to 2nd August 2021.
https://i1.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-48.png?resize=768%2C159&ssl=1
That the injections do not prevent infection or transmission was recently confirmed in a document published by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf
What is more disturbing however, the PHE data reveals that the vaccines meant to reduce the risk of hospitalisation by up to 95% have actually increased it by 48%.
https://i0.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-49.png?resize=768%2C176&ssl=1
Furthermore, rather than the vaccines reducing the risk of death by 95% when exposed, they have in fact increased it by 431.25% and the risk of death once hospitalised with Covid-19 if fully vaccinated increases by 262.5%.
https://i2.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-50.png?resize=768%2C171&ssl=1
When faced with doltish intransigence in the face of observable fact, I am inclined to believe Mr. Dietrich Bonhoeffer's observation was rather astute.
Mr Quatro
08-06-21, 08:19 PM
Thank you CheckSix for going to all of that trouble to post your found data :up:
Buddahaid
08-06-21, 09:15 PM
'Strange and stupid attitudes' you say?
Here is the latest Public Health England technical briefing on Covid-19 variants of concern.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf
This data refutes the uncorroborated assertions being made concerning vaccine efficacy.
It shows that people who have had at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine account for 39% of all confirmed cases of the Delta Covid-19 variant since February 1st 2021 up to 2nd August 2021.
https://i1.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-48.png?resize=768%2C159&ssl=1
That the injections do not prevent infection or transmission was recently confirmed in a document published by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf
What is more disturbing however, the PHE data reveals that the vaccines meant to reduce the risk of hospitalisation by up to 95% have actually increased it by 48%.
https://i0.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-49.png?resize=768%2C176&ssl=1
Furthermore, rather than the vaccines reducing the risk of death by 95% when exposed, they have in fact increased it by 431.25% and the risk of death once hospitalised with Covid-19 if fully vaccinated increases by 262.5%.
https://i2.wp.com/dailyexpose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/image-50.png?resize=768%2C171&ssl=1
When faced with doltish intransigence in the face of observable fact, I am inclined to believe Mr. Dietrich Bonhoeffer's observation was rather astute.
I read that differently. I see that for people under fifty, those with full vaccination are considrably better off, those over fifty have very mixed results but those are people most likely to be highly comprimised in the first place.
Cybermat47
08-06-21, 09:40 PM
I honestly can’t understand what’s wrong with you crazy vaccine-lovers. My friend on Facebook told me that vaccines contain tiny little bombs that Obama will use to blow you up if you sing the US national anthem.
But you all believe these random scientists with decades of experience studying diseases - as if that matters, when vaccines are clearly a political issue with no science involved!
Buddahaid
08-06-21, 10:20 PM
I honestly can’t understand what’s wrong with you crazy vaccine-lovers. My friend on Facebook told me that vaccines contain tiny little bombs that Obama will use to blow you up if you sing the US national anthem.
But you all believe these random scientists with decades of experience studying diseases - as if that matters, when vaccines are clearly a political issue with no science involved!
:hmmm:
Well there is that verse that mentions hirlings and slaves..... :arrgh!:
Rockstar
08-07-21, 01:06 AM
Arkansas, Missouri, Louisiana and Florida are pretty exposed and numbers are rising in my hospitals over the last few weeks.
Post your data.
Skybird
08-07-21, 05:04 AM
That's just your opinion. My opinion is we could be better off now and not facing a fourth wave if people just got the vaccine ASAP.
Or to be more precise, we would have a fourth wave, but would not need to take note of it. The vaccines seems to protect against serious symptoms, not so much against getting infected in the first, and whats more, vaccinated people probably are close to as infective than unvaccinated. Its about the symptoms, the symptoms, the symptoms. Long Covid as well: its about the symptoms. Long Covidlers survive usually. Still the symptoms ruin their existence and take them out of the economic cycle for months.
With the vaccine, Covid-19 until Delta variant might be degraded indeed to just some kind of a cold. Many people have colds over the year, but usually none of us care for them, care for it.
If we have set up our immune systems well additionally to the vaccination, we would need to care even less.
Rockstar
08-07-21, 05:57 AM
According to WHO, anti-bodies developed naturally to defend the body is just as effective. Herd immunity will be ,if it hasn’t already, be achieved by both means.
Russiagate, Steele dossier, Masks :roll: Democrats and their conspiracy theories when you nits gonna grow up.
I did not say that the virus was the same as the mark of the beast Markus, but that it was similar.
These new laws to prove you have your Covid-19 shots to eat or drink or buy or sell are very much like the end times as prophesied.
Forerunners perhaps :yep:
Sorry my friend it was on FB I saw this comment. I must have missed your similar comment.
Markus
Jimbuna
08-07-21, 07:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xh0uBM-5MI
Jimbuna
08-07-21, 07:58 AM
The World Health Organization (WHO) has called for a suspension on booster vaccines for Covid-19 until at least the end of September.
WHO Chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said a pause would allow for at least 10% of the population in every country to be vaccinated.
A number of nations including Israel and Germany have announced plans to administer a third dose.
But Dr Tedros has warned poorer nations are falling behind.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58090051
Jimbuna
08-07-21, 08:02 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/T2jkWNXx/119816366-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-06aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/t7TdK5Tv)
Mr Quatro
08-07-21, 08:44 AM
It's so bad in Kenya that the rumors are that the shut down of schools in Kenya may never open again. :o
les green01
08-07-21, 09:50 AM
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/missouri
In Missouri, there were 3,946 newly reported COVID-19 cases and 21 newly reported COVID-19 deaths most is from east missouri with most of the cases in the big cities
Rockstar
08-07-21, 10:21 AM
Arkansas, Missouri, Louisiana and Florida are pretty exposed and numbers are rising in my hospitals over the last few weeks.
Johns Hopkins data makes me think someone is a chicken little conspiracy theorist
3catcircus
08-07-21, 11:08 AM
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/missouri
In Missouri, there were 3,946 newly reported COVID-19 cases and 21 newly reported COVID-19 deaths most is from east missouri with most of the cases in the big cities
So less than 1% of cases resulted in death...
les green01
08-07-21, 11:13 AM
So less than 1% of cases resulted in death...
yep and with only a little bit over 50 percent of show me state had the jab
3catcircus
08-07-21, 11:29 AM
That's just your opinion. My opinion is we could be better off now and not facing a fourth wave if people just got the vaccine ASAP.
It's an educated opinion based upon actual review of raw data rather than taking "expert opinion" at face value without questioning any discrepancies between data and narrative.
Fact: 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1 are endemic
Fact: All four comprise the 2nd most common cause of colds (rhinovirus being the first).
Fact: in 2016 a woman in Greece presented with high fever, cough, and headache and rattling in her lungs at an ER. As her condition got worse and tests for flu, SARS/MERs, etc. were negative, they found she had 239E.
Hypothesis: The 1889 Russian Flu was actually caused by OC43. Fact: a woman in Dublin who was diagnosed with Russian Flu reported to her doctor that she could not taste her tea.
Fact: Lockdowns and social distancing to "flatten the curve" do nothing other than extend the duration of a pandemic as the virus mutates and goes through in multiple waves over the course of a few years.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/08/the-current-pandemic-isnt-the-first-caused-by-a-coronavirus/
Stop speculating I know the future.
1½ years from now there will be no syringe/jab instead vulnerable people will get pills they shall take every 6 month. Later.... around 3 years from now it will be released and can be bought without prescription
Corona is, as many of you have said, here to stay. The world Pandemic will in the end of this year be removed.
The mandatory to show Corona passport will disappear.
5 years from now Corona return totally mutated which makes former vaccine obsolete.
So there you have it.
Markus
An insight on the Lambda variant
"There are variants arising every day -- if a variant can be defined as new mutations," he said. "The question is, do those mutations give the virus some sort of advantage, which of course is to human disadvantage? The answer in Lambda is yes."
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/lambda-coronavirus-variant-wellness-explainer/index.html
Markus
Catfish
08-07-21, 04:16 PM
[...] Corona is, as many of you have said, here to stay. The world Pandemic will in the end of this year be removed.
The mandatory to show Corona passport will disappear.
5 years from now Corona return totally mutated which makes former vaccine obsolete.
Markus
Can well be .. just what will the antiva do then? :hmmm:
"We will not swallow pills if "they" tell me to!"
Well maybe they will have been removed from the gene pool by then.
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 04:31 PM
It's an educated opinion based upon actual review of raw data rather than taking "expert opinion" at face value without questioning any discrepancies between data and narrative.
Fact: 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1 are endemic
Fact: All four comprise the 2nd most common cause of colds (rhinovirus being the first).
Fact: in 2016 a woman in Greece presented with high fever, cough, and headache and rattling in her lungs at an ER. As her condition got worse and tests for flu, SARS/MERs, etc. were negative, they found she had 239E.
Hypothesis: The 1889 Russian Flu was actually caused by OC43. Fact: a woman in Dublin who was diagnosed with Russian Flu reported to her doctor that she could not taste her tea.
Fact: Lockdowns and social distancing to "flatten the curve" do nothing other than extend the duration of a pandemic as the virus mutates and goes through in multiple waves over the course of a few years.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/08/the-current-pandemic-isnt-the-first-caused-by-a-coronavirus/
It did more than flatten the curve, it bought time to get vaccinations made and distributed so that herd immunity could be attained with the minimum of deaths and the vaccinations are proven to be effective against the mutations as well so far.
Besides no one really knows what it would have been like to just let the virus run amok but we do know what it was like in Italy before lockdowns.
Rockstar
08-07-21, 05:12 PM
The virus is and has been running amok. They have found it in white tail deer and other wildlife. Since it seems political consensus dictates the only way to stop COVID is to vaccinate and stay inside. What do politicians suggest should we do about the animals, start killing them off, vaccinate them or see if we get them to wear a mask too.
3catcircus
08-07-21, 05:12 PM
It did more than flatten the curve, it bought time to get vaccinations made and distributed so that herd immunity could be attained with the minimum of deaths and the vaccinations are proven to be effective against the mutations as well so far.
Besides no one really knows what it would have been like to just let the virus run amok but we do know what it was like in Italy before lockdowns.
The question in the back of my mind is what happens regarding the ability to create vaccines when this coronavirus becomes endemic and mutates more and more? Have we screwed ourselves into requiring annual boosters? No one likely knows for sure because there isn't any long term data. The flu vaccine isn't a good analogue because it's currently right around only 40% efficacious on average.
Except we probably *do* know what letting it just run amok might haven't looked like - Hong Kong Flu hit in 68 - a virulent H3N2 flu. It waned in late 69 going into 1970. It's now a seasonal strain. It initially had an IFR of 0.2% with top-end estimates of 4 million dead.
Best estimates for COVID are IFR 0.15% with around 4 million dead. Not a bad comparison to study between this and HK Flu.
The "problem" is the methodology in 68 wasn't as accurate to do the estimating. The other "problem" is all of the COVID data is a mess - combinations of cases counted multiple times for the same person, cases counted using extremely high Ct values, cases counted that are asymptomatic. It also is tainted by "died with" cases listed as "died from" where the frail and elderly might have been immunocompromised enough that they also picked up flu, c. diff., secondary bacterial pneumonia, etc. and it was never treated for.
Here's a recent article on covid IFR estimates: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33768536/
The virus is and has been running amok. They have found it in white tail deer and other wildlife. Since it seems political consensus dictates the only way to stop COVID is to vaccinate and stay inside. What do politicians suggest should we do about the animals, start killing them off, vaccinate them or see if we get them to wear a mask too.
Your comment made me truly sad, because it made me remember an article in a Danish newspaper.
It was about people who had started to mistreated cats. This should been done after report that cats can bear the corona virus.
Markus
Catfish
08-07-21, 05:19 PM
Again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFHBPvMRvX4
.
It is not the corona virus that is running Amok.
Rockstar
08-07-21, 05:20 PM
Wait until your purchasing power tanks and inflation really sets in. COVID will seem so trivial.
Catfish
08-07-21, 05:22 PM
^ :haha: The antiva should not worry, they will be dead by then.
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 05:34 PM
Wait until your purchasing power tanks and inflation really sets in. COVID will seem so trivial.
One of the best reasons to shut up and get vaccinated but that might make Biden look good so we can't have that, instead we have to invent reasons why vaccines are an evil plot by Bill Gates and so on and so forth.
People talk of the greatest generation and how people today couldn't live up to it and you know what, I agree. People back then were quite willing to do the small things that helped like live with rationing, give up pots and pans, restrict travel, etc. Today it's too much just to get a damned vaccination and wear a mask in public.
Rockstar
08-07-21, 05:44 PM
^ :haha: The antiva should not worry, they will be dead by then.
Maybe so, but I gotta ask why obsess over anti vaxxers? In reality they are extremely few and so far I haven’t seen one anti-vaxxer comment here.
I have read about those who have gotten the full regimen, I have seen others post they stop after an adverse reaction and others who have say said they will wait until it’s fully approved.
You should be asking yourself. “If a COVID vaccine does turn out to be dangerous, who’s on the hook?”
Usually, drug manufacturers are liable for the safety of their products, and they spend many years developing and testing their drugs to ensure they are safe to use.
That's not how things work in a pandemic.
https://fortune.com/2021/04/07/covid-vaccine-safety-is-astrazeneca-safe-coronavirus-vaccination-liability/
Good luck hope your vaccine works like it should because if it doesn’t yer fooked. As for those who wish to wait and see good luck hope you remain COVID free and beat it if ya catch it.
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 06:30 PM
Maybe so, but I gotta ask why obsess over anti vaxxers? In reality they are extremely few and so far I haven’t seen one anti-vaxxer comment here....
My understanding is they represent about 25% of the population.
Skybird
08-07-21, 06:31 PM
https://www.futurity.org/how-many-americans-identify-as-anti-vaxxers-2578842/
A study of more than 1,000 demographically representative participants found that about 22% of Americans self-identify as anti-vaxxers, and tend to embrace the label as a form of social identity.
That matches previous reads over the past twenty years, that always pointed at a value of around 1 in 4.
There is around 4.5 million Danes above the age 18 among these 800.000 has not answered the mail they got from the Danish serum institut, they have not booked an appointment.
So around 17 % has not yet booked an appointment.
Markus
Rockstar
08-07-21, 06:44 PM
One of the best reasons to shut up and get vaccinated but that might make Biden look good so we can't have that, instead we have to invent reasons why vaccines are an evil plot by Bill Gates and so on and so forth.
People talk of the greatest generation and how people today couldn't live up to it and you know what, I agree. People back then were quite willing to do the small things that helped like live with rationing, give up pots and pans, restrict travel, etc. Today it's too much just to get a damned vaccination and wear a mask in public.
What about the wildlife that carry COVID, do we mandate they wear masks too? :har: Give it rest nobody cares about your demands. Especially when your liberal leadership has time after time been caught disregarding the rules they impose on us. Minute I see that I start waving the b.s. flag. Start looking at the data, COVID deaths are falling, with the exception of hot spots herd immunity has been achieved time to move on.
Masks and vaccines do not cause inflation. But injecting multi trillions of dollars into our economy will. But people are so wrapped up in arguing over masks while you purchase power wanes day by day. Next stop government price controls and then CRASH. It’s gonna take you more than a box of masks to get you through what’s coming.
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 06:49 PM
That's your joke and what about it? You tell me.
Seems someone has finally admitted that their participation in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the Covid virus or the well-being of humanity. Whodathunk? :up:
Rockstar
08-07-21, 07:43 PM
My understanding is they represent about 25% of the population.
Name three that you know and do me a favor define ‘anti-vaxxer’. Is it someone who preferrers to wait for full approval? Maybe it’s a person who, like proponents of abortion believe they have a right to decide what happens to their bodies? Or one who would rather not take it because they believe it unsafe? Or is a anti-vaxxer a person who sues pharmaceutical companies when the vaccine they took causes health problems? Or is it a person who sees the hypocrisy of leadership’s mandates and decides against it on principle? Or do you think an anti vaxxer is someone who thinks their is some kind of conspiracy afoot where a secret society lead by Bill Gates is trying to control peoples minds?
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 07:53 PM
My sister in-law Linda Bucaujit and two of my wife's friends Jeanie Campbell and Jonie Cayton.
What about those white tail deer, I'm waiting for an scientific explanation about whether they can transmit it to humans, suffer any symptoms and if they hang around indoors with humans drinking boilermakers.
3catcircus
08-07-21, 08:11 PM
My sister in-law Linda Bucaujit and two of my wife's friends Jeanie Campbell and Jonie Cayton.
What about those white tail deer, I'm waiting for an scientific explanation about whether they can transmit it to humans, suffer any symptoms and if they hang around indoors with humans drinking boilermakers.
So you believe it spread from bats to humans, but not from humans to other species...
Zoonotic jump is zoonotic jump, regardless of species.
To paraphrase Admiral Rickover (and many other smart people used to not just accepting answers without exploring the details of those answers) - "you want answers, but you're not asking the right questions."
My sister in-law Linda Bucaujit and two of my wife's friends Jeanie Campbell and Jonie Cayton.
What about those white tail deer, I'm waiting for an scientific explanation about whether they can transmit it to humans, suffer any symptoms and if they hang around indoors with humans drinking boilermakers.
Maybe they cant but they got it somehow including all the newest variants so you won't mind if we consider it to be a potential problem until there is some proof that it's not.
Buddahaid
08-07-21, 08:20 PM
Maybe they cant but they got it somehow including all the newest variants so you won't mind if we consider it to be a potential problem until there is some proof that it's not.
Agreed but Rockstar brought it up to ridicule and it's his point to clarify, and just to show I'm a sport about it, I'll further answer his question he raised after ignoring mine.
Only one of the three names I mentioned is a "true" antivaxer that will not have her kids get the usual vaccinations required for public school. Of the other two, one doesn't trust it and the other thinks it will kill her, however, since this is a thread about Covid 19 they all qualify.
em2nought
08-07-21, 11:36 PM
This last year was the first year in at least twenty-five years that I didn't get a flu shot.
Skybird
08-08-21, 03:11 AM
Zoonotic jumps of SarsCov 2 from humans to dogs, cats, gorillas and probably other big apes, are known to be real. Dogs and cats do not show threatening symptoms, but apes can get killed by it.
Rockstar
08-08-21, 05:44 AM
I know who I’m volunteering to vaccinate the 600 lb Silverback. Good luck catfish and Buddahaid don’t be afraid, like you said we must stop this virus from running amok, it’s for the good of humanity we must vaccinate it’s the only way we can survive. Everyone must be vaccinated. Make sure the big fella is wearing his mask before you get close. I suggest that while allowing the Gorilla have its way with Catfish, Buddahaid you sneak in from behind and give him the jab. Watch out for his back hand!
The wild kingdom is in danger we must save them and humanity. After the Silver Backs start rounding up all the feral cats and rodents and isolate them in cages. Start testing dogs and Grizzlies next. Think of the mutations we don’t even know about yet happening in the wild kingdom. Once this makes the headlines it’s all over we’re all doomed.
Btw it doesn’t take much effort to find the report about white tails on the intardnetz
Skybird
08-08-21, 05:48 AM
Easier it would be to stop trafficking rich bored virus-carrying Western and Asian tourists to gorilla reserves in Kongo and just leave the animals alone, instead safeguarding them against the human virusses named poachers with local security.
Rockstar
08-08-21, 06:35 AM
I was also reading about all of the used and discarded masks that some wildlife is becoming entangled in and consuming thinking it’s food. Do you know where your medical waste is going?
.....and they lived happily ever after despite their disagreement
Markus
CheckSix
08-08-21, 07:37 AM
The time for niceties is over, we must face reality, however grim.
There are now literally billions of discarded, useless face nappies helping to kill what remains of our biosphere.
On a darker note, some intrepid physicians are finally managing to perform autopsies on the numerous mortalities that have occurred following injection.
The findings are deeply foreboding, and are being suppressed.
Heidelberg University's chief pathologist Peter Schirmacher for example, claims 30%-40% of the deaths are a direct result of the injection.
https://creativedestructionmedia.com/news/2021/08/07/a-pathologist-summary-of-what-these-jabs-do-to-the-brain-and-other-organs/
I'm not going to lie about the prospects of those that couldn't find the time to research the potential consequences, but I won't be laughing either.
They have my deepest sympathy, some of them are family.
This last year was the first year in at least twenty-five years that I didn't get a flu shot.
LOL... I got you beat. 1986 was the last year I got a flue shot. :up:
Rockstar
08-08-21, 08:34 AM
This year was first time ever that I received a vaccine against a contagious respiratory illness. Motivated mostly by published data. Hopefully the vaccine will not cause any problems later on because it was administered under Emergency Use Act therefore I have no legal means of compensation.
So here’s to our new god science hope it works like he promised. Oh wait, he didn’t make any promises in fact he just told us how it’s ‘supposed’ to work.
I hope Catfish and Buddahaid hurry and get those 600 pound gorillas vaccinated because I just know they must be spreading mutated COVID everywhere.
Mr Quatro
08-08-21, 08:47 AM
I was also reading about all of the used and discarded masks that some wildlife is becoming entangled in and consuming thinking it’s food. Do you know where your medical waste is going?
Here here someone will propose a disposal tax sooner or later :yep:
Rockstar
08-08-21, 09:05 AM
My sister in-law Linda Bucaujit and two of my wife's friends Jeanie Campbell and Jonie Cayton.
What about those white tail deer, I'm waiting for an scientific explanation about whether they can transmit it to humans, suffer any symptoms and if they hang around indoors with humans drinking boilermakers.
Do you know if your friends have COVID anti-bodies, have they been tested? Your god science has said the road to herd immunity will be from both natural causes and man made vaccination. So why does it bother you and catfish so much that they have decided not to get the vaccine? What if they already have anti bodies through natural immunization? Why are the Karens like you and catfish so obsessed and complaining about anyone’s decision not get vaccinated? Especially since neither of you have the slightest clue about their medical history or precautions they take.
I found out yesterday my coworker is isolating because his roommate has tested positive for COVID. But here’s the rub both are vaccinated, so lets see how well your miracle cure works.
Buddahaid
08-08-21, 09:15 AM
No I don't know and I'm not going to ask it's not my place, also it's no coincidence that the sickest among us are the unvaccinated. Miracle cure or not it's what we have outside of ignorance and wishes and it's not mine as I had nothing to do with it.
And I'm tired of your insults as an excuse for argument. You brought up the deer, you provide the data.
Rockstar
08-08-21, 09:42 AM
No I don't know and I'm not going to ask it's not my place, also it's no coincidence that the sickest among us are the unvaccinated. Miracle cure or not it's what we have outside of ignorance and wishes and it's not mine as I had nothing to do with it.
And I'm tired of your insults as an excuse for argument.
Lighten up Francis. I don’t know and I’m not going to ask? But then continue on your high horse politicizing, insulting and mocking the decisions of people who choose not to vaccinate and do so in complete ignorance of their medical history? If the pharmaceutical companies are telling the truth about their product then they are no threat to you. But they have every right not to take the jab and for what ever reason they so choose. And if the vaccine doesn’t work as suggested or causes health problems later in life, keep in mind it is they who have the last laugh.
No matter what you think the other guy should do we’re all taking a chance. Good luck with your decision to get vaccinated and to those that choose not too good luck with your decision.
Buddahaid
08-08-21, 09:51 AM
More insulting cute names that are bordering on a personal attack. Brilliant.
Skybird
08-08-21, 09:56 AM
The time for niceties is over, we must face reality, however grim.
There are now literally billions of discarded, useless face nappies helping to kill what remains of our biosphere.
On a darker note, some intrepid physicians are finally managing to perform autopsies on the numerous mortalities that have occurred following injection.
The findings are deeply foreboding, and are being suppressed.
Heidelberg University's chief pathologist Peter Schirmacher for example, claims 30%-40% of the deaths are a direct result of the injection.
What Schirrmacher said is that they had autopsies on 40 bodies who died within 2 weeks of the vaccination and 30-40% died of causes linked to the injection.
His statements do not go unchallenged.
He also says that vaccination is a basic element of the fight against Corona and should be done, and that he is vaccinated himself, tool.
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/126061/Heidelberger-Pathologe-pocht-auf-mehr-Obduktionen-von-Geimpften
I say: Risk assessment. Which risk weighs more heavily: simply letting Coroa run and withdrawing a flood of patients from the economic cycle and clogging the hospitals, or accepting the extremely low probability of individual vaccination consequences.
CheckSix
08-08-21, 10:30 AM
Whose predictions are you accepting for your risk assessment?
Not the liability free convicted felons at Pfizer who were fined $2.3 billion in 2009 for falsifying research and bribing physicians I hope?
Mr Quatro
08-08-21, 10:41 AM
I nominate Rockstar for quote of the year ... we are all in this together :yep:
No matter what you think the other guy should do we’re all taking a chance. Good luck with your decision to get vaccinated and to those that choose not too good luck with your decision.
Aktungbby
08-08-21, 10:54 AM
Lighten up Francis.
More insulting cute names that are bordering on a personal attack. Brilliant. Good 2 C U R responding in Ernst, Scott!:shucks:
Conclusion:
The vaccine is based on what I have read so far a placebo.
This 94 % protection is only words, just follow the comment among those who has been vaccinated. So the vaccine is nothing but a placebo. Why should people then take this vaccine when it has no protection effect-Again just read the comment among those who has been vaccinated, afraid of getting infected, so the vaccine is a placebo.
(This is my opinion)
Markus
Skybird
08-08-21, 11:06 AM
Conclusion:
The vaccine is based on what I have read so far a placebo.
This 94 % protection is only words, just follow the comment among those who has been vaccinated. So the vaccine is nothing but a placebo. Why should people then take this vaccine when it has no protection effect-Again just read the comment among those who has been vaccinated, afraid of getting infected, so the vaccine is a placebo.
(This is my opinion)
Markus
I think its a bit more than just hear-say or a placebo or Pfizer lobbyism and propaganda.
A case control study, which has been peer reviewed and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, compared 596 618 people who were newly vaccinated in Israel and matched them to unvaccinated controls.1 (https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n567#ref-1) Two doses of the mRNA vaccine reduced symptomatic cases by 94%, hospitalisation by 87%, and severe covid-19 by 92%, according to the data from the Clalit Institute for Research which is Israel’s biggest healthcare provider.
Sigh.
Jimbuna
08-08-21, 11:22 AM
Lighten up Francis. I don’t know and I’m not going to ask? But then continue on your high horse politicizing, insulting and mocking the decisions of people who choose not to vaccinate and do so in complete ignorance of their medical history? If the pharmaceutical companies are telling the truth about their product then they are no threat to you. But they have every right not to take the jab and for what ever reason they so choose. And if the vaccine doesn’t work as suggested or causes health problems later in life, keep in mind it is they who have the last laugh.
No matter what you think the other guy should do we’re all taking a chance. Good luck with your decision to get vaccinated and to those that choose not too good luck with your decision.
More insulting cute names that are bordering on a personal attack. Brilliant.
Just a curt reminder at this point asking everyone to refrain from insults and the like whichever way posted.
TIA
Jimbuna
08-08-21, 11:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqc_Dzx9P2Y
Jimbuna
08-08-21, 11:57 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/y8LvFRZn/119834774-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-08aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/K1gPbRQg)
les green01
08-08-21, 01:41 PM
it is a person decision to make whatever their choice is should be respected and not mock or whatever i know 7 that had the virus 3 had the jab 4 didn't none of them died no one here knows a person medical so the person might have a good reason for getting or not getting the jab its a decision that a doctor and a person should make or talk about not the so call experts from subsim but what ever my decision will be or is should be respected has i respect their decision
Catfish
08-08-21, 01:54 PM
^ Marcus i give up any arguments and argueing, you seem to get it one day and the other you say exactly the opposite :hmmm: No thanks.
re lesgreen it has been said time and time again that non-vaccinated people are a ticking time bomb probably overwhelming medical help of any kind in the upcoming wave. If some people who disregard reality treaten others the obvious right action should be a no-brainer.
So do not get the vaccine and isolate if you want, just do not blame it on the others.
^ Marcus i give up any arguments and argueing, you seem to get it one day and the other you say exactly the opposite :hmmm: No thanks.
re lesgreen it has been said time and time again that non-vaccinated people are a ticking time bomb probably overwhelming medical help of any kind in the upcoming wave. If some people who disregard reality treaten others the obvious right action should be a no-brainer.
So do not get the vaccine and isolate if you want, just do not blame it on the others.
??? Where should I have said the opposite ???
I have always said we shall respect each others belief and standpoint when it comes to take or not to take the vaccine. And that I'm not an expert in medicin so I follow what our authorities advise us to do.
Markus
les green01
08-08-21, 02:35 PM
^ Marcus i give up any arguments and argueing, you seem to get it one day and the other you say exactly the opposite :hmmm: No thanks.
re lesgreen it has been said time and time again that non-vaccinated people are a ticking time bomb probably overwhelming medical help of any kind in the upcoming wave. If some people who disregard reality treaten others the obvious right action should be a no-brainer.
So do not get the vaccine and isolate if you want, just do not blame it on the others.
and the people who has the jab are still getting the virus if you going get it you going get it and i honest tired of reading how us not having it going died so knock that bull **** off next i see my doctor every 3 months being a diabetic and getting a regular check ups fact is the doctor knows my medical history you don't next i have made my decision after i talk to my doctor again friday my decision is my decision not yours not anyone elses but mine and far has whatever has happen in my life i have never blame anybody for my decisions so get off your high horse
https://i0.wp.com/www.altnews.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-30-at-6.52.25-PM.jpg?resize=543%2C583&ssl=1
Skybird
08-08-21, 03:01 PM
??? Where should I have said the opposite ???
I have always said we shall respect each others belief and standpoint when it comes to take or not to take the vaccine. And that I'm not an expert in medicin so I follow what our authorities advise us to do.
Markus
What Catfish (probably) means is that respect should be given were respect is due, but not for outspoken bollocks just to avoid conflict and confrontation. If somebody claims for example that some people agree that division by zero is not allowed and others say it can be done nevertehless and that both views should be equally respected, then this turns respect into absurdity and in fact just conflict-evasion at any cost.
And I must say that I agree with Catfish. So many absurd things have been claimed in this thread, and have been debunked - and one hour later the same people show up again and claim them again as if nothing ever had been said, endlessly repeating the same BS again and again and again. Its like talking to a wall.
I watched, for a second time, Steven Soderberg's "Contagion" a couple of days ago. The film was shot a decade before Covid-19 arrived. Its frightening how close to Covid-19's reality that fictional film has reached almost ten years before, but only as long as one does not know that they just asked scientists how it would look like if such a scenario would ever turn true - and then they took the answers and turned them into pictures. In it, there is a figure played by actor Jude Law, a conspiration theory blogger named Alan Krumwiede who lowered himself to fake infection and then "document" his healing live on his blog with forsythia essence to make money.
Well, not everybody may be clever enough to betray 12 million followers so that he makes millions of their donations. But since Trump and Covid 19 we certainly have learned that the world is filled up to its ceiling with idiots who believe the Krumwiedes of this world, and who do not only take forsythia essence as a cure for real, but even inject chlorine bleaching into their veins because a sappy psychopath in a famous office with a big badge on his jacket publicly philosophizes about the reasonability of doing so. Such idiots do not deserve your and our respect. They only deserve that you either ignore them, and if they are too dangerous to ignore them and the ypose a threat to you, that you confront them and label them as what they really are.
Because if you pay respect to irresponsible idiots just to behave nice and polite - well, then you definitely do not give an advantageous impression of yourself then.
Or in brief, be chosey whom you respect. :03: As we say in German: "Viel Feind, viel Ehr'."
Catfish
08-08-21, 03:05 PM
and the people who has the jab are still getting the virus if you going get it you going get it and i honest tired of reading how us not having it going died so knock that bull **** off next i see my doctor every 3 months being a diabetic and getting a regular check ups fact is the doctor knows my medical history you don't next i have made my decision after i talk to my doctor again friday my decision is my decision not yours not anyone elses but mine and far has whatever has happen in my life i have never blame anybody for my decisions so get off your high horse
They get the virus but they do not get the symptoms, or if in a very dimmed way. It is your decision of course. But your freedom ends when you threaten and infect others. 50 percent vaccinations will not provide "herd immunity".
Having diabetes or not alone has nothing to do with covid vaccination.
" respect should be given were respect is due"
Maybe we see it differently, I say respect those who chose to take the jab and respect those who decide not to.
If this is wrong, then let it be wrong.
If one of these unvaccinated get infected then it's their own fault no doubt about it.
Markus
Rockstar
08-08-21, 03:21 PM
But your freedom ends when you threaten and infect others. 50 percent vaccinations will not provide "herd immunity".
Having diabetes or not has nothing to do with covid vaccination, what kind of doctor do you consult?
Apart from this you should maybe try a horse, you can look farther and you might even be able to use interpunction :nope:
Come on you can make a better argument than belittling doctors and trying imposing your will on others like all the other Karens.
In March 2021 it was estimated 50 percent of the U.S. population had COVID antibodies when only 17 percent of the population had been vaccinated. Projected herd immunity in the U.S. was July-August 2021. We have opened our schools, businesses, and public events nation wide, even our liberal leadership is going to parties unmasked.
What this tells me is our hospitals should be able to handle the stragglers as we continue to achieve herd immunity in the last of the unvaccinated holdouts. Here people have the freedom to choose and if you choose to be vaccinated or already have COVID antibodies through natural selection then the unvaccinated few are zero threat. Look at India, it’s been estimated months ago 2/3 rds of their population already have antibodies their ‘emergency is already winding down. Seems like the world is moving on while you are still complaining about things which no longer matter to anyone.
The only way any nation can achieve herd immunity through vaccination alone is if lockdowns and isolation continue and forced injections. Good luck with that Europe let’ us know how it turns out over there. We’re moving on catch up when you can.
Catfish
08-08-21, 03:24 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
les green01
08-08-21, 03:27 PM
They get the virus but they do not get the symptoms, or if in a very dimmed way. It is your decision of course. But your freedom ends when you threaten and infect others. 50 percent vaccinations will not provide "herd immunity".
Having diabetes or not has nothing to do with covid vaccination, what kind of doctor do you consult?
Apart from this you should maybe try a horse, you can look farther and you might even be able to use interpunction :nope:
i talk to my family doctor i probly see just has far has you do and that the best you can do is gripe about my grammer but then opinions are like *******s everybody has one but i can see how some people attitude is around here cause whatever my decision is so before this gets out of hand i think the best option for me is to leave subsim
Rockstar
08-08-21, 03:36 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
What’s your point Karen? Case counts have never ever been the issue I had COVID and it never matter because I never went to hospital. What matters is if area hospitals can handle the current intake spike. So far those last unvaccinated holdout areas have been able to keep up. We’re moving on while Karens still complain over things that don’t matter to anyone.
I'm truly sadden
None of us in here are expert on medicin, some have little knowledge, but not as expert.
We have taken a standpoint. A majority of us believe Corona is real and some of us believe Corona is worse than influenza, while others believe it's same as the flu or not that severe.
We have taken a standpoint and chosen to take the vaccine...some of us has chosen not to take the vaccine and some of us has chosen to wait awhile before taking the shot.
Many news story get debunked in this thread, I think it has to do with the fact that a majority know when a story smell fake.
Markus
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/Herd_immunity_resized.jpg
^ There's an episode of Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman
In this episode a professor in psychiatry explain why these warning text on cigaret package doesn't work.
Markus
3catcircus
08-08-21, 04:02 PM
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/Herd_immunity_resized.jpg
The top picture in your diagram is an intermediate state. It ends with herd immunity which looks like the end state of the bottom picture.
Catfish
08-08-21, 04:03 PM
re Rockstar It is just to show that cases of infections are going up again, in the USA. Just as an answer to your Good luck with that Europe let’ us know how it turns out over there. We’re moving on catch up when you can.
Catfish
08-08-21, 04:22 PM
@les green0 edited
You are probably right about my high-horsedness, so i guess i have to apologize, but then your text was f'n terrible to read.
Re your condition of which i have no idea as you rightly said, i have some 'conditions' myself including this diabetes thing and much worse, but even if this affects my immunosystem (or whatever humans call this bloody failing apparatus) it all has nothing to do with the question of getting vaccinated or not. If your doctor told you so you should at least ask for a second view just to make sure.
I'm acting like I'm infected, when in town and taking the buss, being around other people even though not having one tiny symptom.
I do not act disrespectful against others.
Markus
The top picture in your diagram is an intermediate state. It ends with herd immunity which looks like the end state of the bottom picture.
You will believe what you want. Herd immunity without vaccination has been historically proven wrong. But the main point of the illustration was to address the apparent mindset that you or anyone don't impact the rest of society. There's 'rights' and there's 'responsibility.' I suggest that anyone that insists that it's their right not to vaccinate and/or mask for the sake of their fellow humans should isolate in remote regions as to not have a negative impact on them. And if you have children in your 'care' perhaps you should consider giving them up.
:up:
Some clarification is needed.
I said I respect those who chose not to take the jab, but I admit I have difficulty accepting it when they base their standpoint on some fake story.
Markus
Skybird
08-08-21, 05:04 PM
https://i0.wp.com/www.altnews.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-30-at-6.52.25-PM.jpg?resize=543%2C583&ssl=1
Just to bump this up again.
There are unvaccinated covid survivors that have lung scans like the one on the left so those pictures are meaningless.
There are unvaccinated covid survivors that have lung scans like the one on the left so those pictures are meaningless.
I understand you're not getting it (the meaning). Covid is indeed a percentage thing (like most diseases). You've been shown the difference but don't you worry about it (you're determined not to). Not for your own sake ... which is certainly more important than the sake of anyone around you, relative, friend, neighbor, stranger.
https://youtu.be/HWn-pGf4B-M
I like this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xgjtm4_M20
https://images.dailykos.com/images/973774/story_image/TMW2021-08-11color.png?1628268074
;)
I believe these X-Ray which are being posted in this thread is genuin. I do not have the skill to say otherwise, it's therefore I do believe they are real.
So you have decided to reject taking the jab I respect that..Please do NOT forget to protect others from you..this is very important...act as you were infected.
Others should not suffer from our decision.
Does freedom mean the right to kill others ?
Markus
3catcircus
08-09-21, 10:22 AM
I understand you're not getting it (the meaning). Covid is indeed a percentage thing (like most diseases). You've been shown the difference but don't you worry about it (you're determined not to). Not for your own sake ... which is certainly more important than the sake of anyone around you, relative, friend, neighbor, stranger.
https://youtu.be/HWn-pGf4B-M
My family, me, my friends. Everyone else can go screw. How is that sentiment supposed to be different now than 2 years ago when we had terrible flu outbreaks? Because that is the natural state of humans.
Few people are smart enough to know to question *everything* they're being told. If an "authority figure" tells you you should be doing something and that can't provide the *raw* data to back up their assertion, they are doing nothing more than "just following orders."
Questioning mask mandates when multiple studies over many years and over a year of real data from covid show that they are not effective at stopping transmission outside of a clinical environment is not being a denier.
Questioning the effectiveness of a vaccine that is *experimental* when the vaccinated still get infected, when they were led to believe it was a sterilizing vaccine, and when internal company data shows vastly more adverse side-effect instances than VAERS isn't being anti-vax.
Questioning the ridiculousness of Australian zero-covid measures and the results of places like the UK and Israel that have high vax rates but still spreading, when India, Sweden, and several others show that that have effective herd immunity isn't denying the existence of covid.
Covid is here to stay. Just like flu and rhinovirus. Prolonging the time it takes to go from dangerous to endemic is utter stupidity.
Question EVERYTHING.
Skybird
08-09-21, 11:02 AM
Formally, vaccines that are "experiemntal", are given emergency permission, and are given regular licenses, are three different things, experimental is not the same as emergency permission for early use, since an emergency permission bases on full sets of conditions that are under scrutiny if license is to be gained later on. An experimentla vaccine is in deveklopment sitll, can change. An experimental jab is in clinical trial only, and not meant and is not used on the wide public, whereas emergency permitted vaccines are allowed to deliver incoming data and feedback at a delayed pace so to later lead to a full license. It does not mean that there is no damn good reason and confidence to trust in it.
We have this debate in germany ad absurdum currently, the socalled StiKo, a committee on the assessment of vaccines, refuses to hand out a recommendation for using Astra Zenca earlier this year for a certain age group exclusively on the argument that they had not collected enough data so far to formally complete the assessment process. Currently they refuse to recommend vaccination of children 12-17 years because they have not sufficient data - mysteriously other nations and EU authorities however have not that problem and have recommended it. In both examples the German committee claimed and claims to expect that they will give recommendations for using the vaccines later, when the yhave had all their data together.
The difference is a formal one only.
An experimental vaccine however is not in the wild, is not used, with or without license, in the public, but is limited for use in formalised clinical trial studies with limited participants. Its a small and closed population trial.
Its wanting to arousing emotions when labelling the current use of vaccines as "experimental". Its trying to raise anger by bypassing the brain and appealing to lower instincts instead.
The FDA is expected to give full licensing within days, btw. Then this debate is done and over and no more "differences" between "regular" and "experimental".
While the used vaccine still is the same.
I am a big fan of the scientific methodological process. Its the best thing we have ever invented to push progress and the growth of knowledge and understanding of nature and its laws. But I do not beoeive one seocnd that thsoe oarts of the reality we live in that we have not already exmained accoridng to these rulesets and have not acadmeically licensed - do not exiost. Reality exiost, the world reovlves aoruzdn the sun and life moves on, no matter where we are with our empirical validation processes. Deciding we neverthelss must: even if not having all knowledge - and when do we ever have "full knowledge"...? Dojg n and acitng an dlive with the consequences we must, even if we have not all emprial processes for validating reality completed. Because life keeps on to live on, and reality is just there, and already exists, it does not care for our scinetific processes. Stuff happens and things take place. We must react. We are victims of reality's timing.
But we can try our best to be prepared early, and by that win time. Thats what karma also is about.
Skybird
08-09-21, 11:11 AM
Another one bites the dust.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dick-farrell-death-covid-vaccine-b1899092.html
My family, me, my friends. Everyone else can go screw.
Not even capable of pretending actual empathy for your fellow man given the screwing you're willing to do to others also affects you, your friends and your family. Rather sad and pathetic.
Question EVERYTHING.
Taking questioning to the point of questioning common sense isn't as impressive as you seem to think it comes across on the forum. You make claims of disproven evidence that you obviously never understood from the get go. I wouldn't strut that out so proudly if I were you. :up:
Subnuts
08-09-21, 12:05 PM
I'm that one weird guy who gets their flu shot each year even if I hate the current president. :hmmm:
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 12:12 PM
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are hurting those of us who have done the right thing and gotten vaccinated. Let us demand that businesses and government agencies require that anyone who enters their premises be vaccinated. The unvaccinated are putting us all at risk and destroying our economy. What gives them the right to do that?
We need to call out anyone we know who hasn’t gotten vaccinated and shame them into doing the right thing. I call on business leaders, public officials, the media and anyone who holds a position of influence to demand that this gets done. For everyone’s sake, we need to bring an end to this pandemic.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/letters/letter-time-to-start-shaming-the-unvaccinated-2411624/
"Shaming adds to the hesitancy. We are not hurting the economy or those who are vaccinated or vulnerable. If the vaccinations and masks are so effective, why are there so many ”breakthrough“ cases being reported?
We still live in a free country, but that topic is for another discussion."
https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/letters/letter-shaming-the-unvaccinated-wont-work-2416286/
No one has ever been "insulted" into changing their mind.
No one has ever been "insulted" into changing their mind.
Walking on eggshells to spare feelings doesn't seem to work, either.
Eventually you just decide to be blunt for the sake of third parties observing.
*ShruG*
But I love you all. Every single one of you. Just don't expect me to swap spit with you whether in public or private. :O:
Subsim, baby. There's better things to dis-cuss here (maybe not as fun ... but better).
Carry on my wayward son .... there'll be peace when you are done.
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 12:31 PM
I'm that one weird guy who gets their flu shot each year even if I hate the current president. :hmmm:
No, not at all. I have never gotten the flu shot. It did not matter who was running the country. :hmmm:
Jimbuna
08-09-21, 12:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGE2MOnj7M
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 12:33 PM
Walking on eggshells to spare feelings doesn't seem to work, either.
Eventually you just decide to be blunt for the sake of third parties observing.
*ShruG*
But I love you all. Every single one of you. Just don't expect me to swap spit with you whether in public or private. :O:
Subsim, baby. There's better things to dis-cuss here (maybe not as fun ... but better).
Carry on my wayward son .... there'll be peace when you are done.
Aren't we all 3rd party observing? Swap spit. Oh the visuals. :o
Jimbuna
08-09-21, 12:36 PM
Yet another example of what is sadly becoming an ever increasing number.
Covid vaccine refuser died after terrible mistake, says partner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-58080116
Aren't we all 3rd party observing? Swap spit. Oh the visuals. :o
The arguments (for those who believe they are making one/having one) are generally made in the ring of direct confrontation. The peanut gallery, however, may be there for the simple pleasure of observation (and may even be open to influence, one way or the other).
Without pictures we should be able to stomach it. Let me rephrase ... oh nevermind. ;)
Jimbuna
08-09-21, 12:39 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/Ls9zkc0j/119868738-uk-card-with-vax-2doses-09aug-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/zyQb8cNf)
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 12:41 PM
Daily COVID tracker. I use Worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
This is usually updated daily without fail. As of late, crickets. It is not updated. For such an upswing of cases one would think ALL states(USA) and countries would report with regularity. Where are the real daily figures because with Worldometer one can never tell if the outbreak is still climbing, peaked or on the downside.
Where do you all look for daily count?
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 12:42 PM
The arguments (for those who believe they are making one/having one) are generally made in the ring of direct confrontation. The peanut gallery, however, may be there for the simple pleasure of observation (and may even be open to influence, one way or the other).
Without pictures we should be able to stomach it. Let me rephrase ... oh nevermind. ;)
:har:
CheckSix
08-09-21, 12:43 PM
Big Pharma are not to be trusted.
I know this because I used to work there.
What's the real reason those in charge are so desperate for every man, woman, child and baby to get these new “vaccines”?
The only modern “vaccines” whose manufacturers decided to forego the usual 10-15 years of safety trials required for all other vaccines.
Understandable if you only look at it from a profit perspective (they do) and disregard trivialities such as the potential for a global catastrophe.
After all, a Coronavirus Vaccine that could be proven safe in animal trials has always been beyond the reach of Medicine’s best and brightest.
Every time.
Until we had a scientific “miracle” of a Big Pharma cabal individually yet simultaneously transcending in a few months a barrier that the Global Medical Community hadn’t overcome in decades : A Coronavirus Vaccine that is “safe” in Humans.
Here’s a quote from Dr.Frazer, of the University of Queensland, which you can find in this article:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616
“One of the problems with corona vaccines in the past has been that when the immune response does cross over to where the virus-infected cells are, it actually increases the pathology rather than reducing it… So that immunization with SARS corona vaccine caused, in animals, inflammation in the lungs which wouldn’t otherwise have been there if the vaccine hadn’t been given.”
As recently as April last year you were allowed to say that without having your Medical License put in jeopardy as you would now.
Here’s one more quote:
“I think it would be fair to say even if we get something which looked quite encouraging in animals, the safety trials in humans will have to be fairly extensive before we would think about vaccinating a group of people who have not yet been exposed to the virus… They might hope to get protection but certainly wouldn’t be keen to accept a possibility of really serious side effects if they actually caught the virus.”
This was acceptable for a Doctor to say in April 2020, before the sudden creation of these new “vaccines”. Now saying it means you won’t even be *allowed* to be a Doctor. Or have a job or business at all, in any industry, for that matter. You may even be locked up.
What changed?
To make it worse, these vaccines have already begun “losing effectiveness” so rapidly that they are already coming out with “booster” shots, effectively preparing us for an indefinite chain of compulsory medical procedures that will be forced upon us all, or be banished from our communities, excluded from the economy and separated from our families.
This 2 years ago would have been unthinkable, now it is actually Government Policy in some of the most powerful Nations on Earth, with most others heading the same way.
In addition, there are new reports of side effects by the day, even reports of children dying of heart attacks and serious neurological disorders. In Europe alone over 2 million adverse reactions have been reported, with over half of them serious, along with over 20,000 deaths.
These reported incidents are likely only a fraction of all of those which have occurred. Let that sink in for a second. The FDA’s figures aren’t looking spectacular, either.
First 70% of the population needed to be vaccinated for “herd immunity”, then 80% and now it’s allegedly 100%.
I can’t begin to imagine why they would be reluctant – Sorry I forgot, nobody is reluctant, they must be “vaccine hesitant”.
Notice that Big Media all started parroting off that phrase at the same time?
Why would anyone take this risk knowing it would mean Political, if not literal, Suicide if their gamble fails?
Because if there’s no control group, there’s no proof.
They can lie and manipulate the statistics, as they already do, but it’s hard to hide millions of people who haven’t had their dose of the “safe vaccine” from the millions who may develop tumors, autoimmune diseases, neurological conditions and so on in 5, 10 or 15 years time.
Or perhaps next year. Nobody Knows.
If something goes wrong it needs to go wrong for everyone, except them and their families who wouldn’t even share the same room with a syringe filled with these substances. But a tiny control group like that isn’t evidence that the “vaccines” caused it .
We are. The millions of “unvaccinated”.
Nobody, myself included, *could* know, no matter who they are, because nobody can see into the future and the trials were simply not done. Covid wasn’t announced as an official pandemic until January last year. That was just over a year and a half ago. It’s impossible for anyone to state they know the long term effects – if we could do that without the trials we, of course, would do.
We can’t.
But we *can* look at what has happened in the past.
And that is my point.
The only thing we do know is this – They willingly, at the very least, took a criminally negligible risk with the lives of as many people on Earth as they could get these substances injected into.
They even locked them in their homes or stopped them leaving the country or getting an education just to force them to get it.
Now come Covid Passports.
A biosecurity state has already spread over most of the world, with the most backing coming from the countries that boast about being Freedom-Loving Liberal Democracies.
Maybe the side effects never materialize – Maybe they wipe out half of us in five years.
But they took that risk. With the lives of our children, even the ones yet to come in to the world, in addition to the ones that may never be conceived if infertility arises from this Crime.
They did it to save themselves, at the expense of the entire world.
I hope it makes a little bit more sense now why they need that vaccine in you and your loved ones so badly.
TLDR: All the ferrets died.
3catcircus
08-09-21, 12:45 PM
Not even capable of pretending actual empathy for your fellow man given the screwing you're willing to do to others also affects you, your friends and your family. Rather sad and pathetic.
I see you chose to break apart my thought and ignore the important part of it - which is why would someone alter their behavior for covid when they didn't for flu or colds - contrary to what people have been led to believe, covid is not all that deadly for most people. As with flu, RSV, and other respiratory infections in the immunocompromised and the frail, opportunistic secondary bacterial infections are important contributing causes of death for those hospitalized with covid - and they're being completely ignored by most of the media when reporting. Then again, the media is terrible at reporting anything related to science topics
This isn't ebola or rabies, so we should have never acted like it is.
Taking questioning to the point of questioning common sense isn't as impressive as you seem to think it comes across on the forum. You make claims of disproven evidence that you obviously never understood from the get go. I wouldn't strut that out so proudly if I were you. :up:
Firstly, common sense isn't common. Secondly, when you question everything, it draws out data that were not considered to begin with or were thrown away by people who did not consider them in context. Much of my professional activities consist of questioning of data, conclusions, and decisions. More often than not, my questions result in rework - many times leading to changes to initial decisions.
I see you chose to break apart my thought and ignore the important part of it - which is why would someone alter their behavior for covid when they didn't for flu or colds - contrary to what people have been led to believe, covid is not all that deadly for most people. As with flu, RSV, and other respiratory infections in the immunocompromised and the frail, opportunistic secondary bacterial infections are important contributing causes of death for those hospitalized with covid - and they're being completely ignored by most of the media when reporting. Then again, the media is terrible at reporting anything related to science topics
This isn't ebola or rabies, so we should have never acted like it is.
Firstly, common sense isn't common. Secondly, when you question everything, it draws out data that were not considered to begin with or were thrown away by people who did not consider them in context. Much of my professional activities consist of questioning of data, conclusions, and decisions. More often than not, my questions result in rework - many times leading to changes to initial decisions.
Critical thought and constant denial are two different things. You're not just questioning. You obviously have a strong bias beforehand. And equating Covid to the common cold .. or even the flu (bearing in mind the horrible 'Spanish' flu epidemic from over a century ago) just reflects a true lack of understanding regarding all of such. Again, I blame the internet and the propensity of those wanting to find what they already believe and stopping short of true 'critical thought.'
Perhaps balance is due:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-cold/fact-check-you-are-not-more-likely-to-die-from-the-common-cold-than-covid-19-idUSKCN26D0XT
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
I know. That doesn't matter to you. Conspiracies are so much more entertaining. :yeah: :)
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 01:07 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
*Because influenza surveillance does not capture all cases of flu that occur in the U.S., CDC provides these estimated ranges to better reflect the larger burden of influenza. These estimates are calculated based on CDC’s weekly influenza surveillance data and are preliminary.
:hmmm:
Skybird
08-09-21, 01:39 PM
Walking on eggshells to spare feelings doesn't seem to work, either.
Eventually you just decide to be blunt for the sake of third parties observing.
*ShruG*
But I love you all. Every single one of you. Just don't expect me to swap spit with you whether in public or private. :O:
Subsim, baby. There's better things to dis-cuss here (maybe not as fun ... but better).
Carry on my wayward son .... there'll be peace when you are done.
I start to really like this guy. :salute:
Rockstar
08-09-21, 02:16 PM
I was looking at Florida’s inpatient bed situation. It seems at the beginning they geared up and had over 77,971 inpatient beds available. But COVID hospitalizations never came close to reaching that capacity. In fact there remained a truck load of empty beds until November 2020 when the number of inpatient beds was reduced to 55,987, which I think is close to the norm for that state.
Though there have been some big COVID spikes particularly when Florida opened for business. It’s appears hospitals have always been able to handle the influx.
Anyway, that’s my interpretation of the numbers.
I’d really love to find current seroprevelance studies and case fatality rates. But that’s a very rare subject and there’re nowhere to be found.
AVGWarhawk
08-09-21, 02:27 PM
I was looking at Florida’s inpatient bed situation. It seems at the beginning they geared up and had over 77,971 inpatient beds available. But COVID hospitalizations never came close to reaching that capacity. In fact there remained a truck load of empty beds until November 2020 when the number of inpatient beds was reduced to 55,987, which I think is close to the norm for that state.
Though there have been some big COVID spikes particularly when Florida opened for business. It’s appears hospitals have always been able to handle the influx.
Anyway, that’s my interpretation of the numbers.
I’d really love to find current seroprevelance studies and case fatality rates. But that’s a very rare subject and there’re nowhere to be found.
Not for nothing, there was no hospital overload in the state of MD that I'm aware of.
Question how are those counted that get the virus, do not get tested(not really knowing what has made them ill) and stay home to recover?
Catfish
08-09-21, 05:06 PM
edit:@ les green01
To my defence i tried to explain some things and you did not answer, sorry to see this get out of hand.
re exchange look at your pm inbox.
les green01
08-09-21, 05:22 PM
your opinion i try to respect it also know things can get heated which was one reason i was getting off subsim for awhile so it would not blow over into has what has happen for the record though the doctor told me i shouldnt i went ahead and got my first shot it still was my choice and im going respect other choices in the matter shot or not shot everybody choices now i should have listen to the doctor about the virus shot throat swell up itching everywhere chemicals reactions that i have
Catfish
08-09-21, 05:32 PM
Others please refrain from comments for now.
edit: @Arlo tried to send you a pm bt it would not let me, would you please delete the ^ quote?
Les and me had a private conversation to clear things up. Thanks.
Others please refrain from comments for now, we will clear this in PMs.
Kinda hard to comment on PMs. I'll presume ya'll are successfully using them as long as nothing crazy and stupid rises to the surface (floats down to the bottom?). I've been through Missouri. Neat caverns. :yeah:
les green01
08-09-21, 05:51 PM
Kinda hard to comment on PMs. I'll presume ya'll are successfully using them as long as nothing crazy and stupid rises to the surface (floats down to the bottom?). I've been through Missouri. Neat caverns. :yeah:
we took care of the problem deleted or edits posts things overheated and misups in languages
3catcircus
08-09-21, 07:26 PM
Critical thought and constant denial are two different things. You're not just questioning. You obviously have a strong bias beforehand. And equating Covid to the common cold .. or even the flu (bearing in mind the horrible 'Spanish' flu epidemic from over a century ago) just reflects a true lack of understanding regarding all of such. Again, I blame the internet and the propensity of those wanting to find what they already believe and stopping short of true 'critical thought.'
Perhaps balance is due:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-cold/fact-check-you-are-not-more-likely-to-die-from-the-common-cold-than-covid-19-idUSKCN26D0XT
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
I know. That doesn't matter to you. Conspiracies are so much more entertaining. :yeah: :)
Read it again. You fail to understand I'm not equating covid to colds and flu as to their actual burdens. I'm making the point that people are trying to do things and alter behaviors for covid that they haven't done for other respiratory viruses - because of perceived risk based upon information provided that is itself intended to promote those behaviors. The *actual* risk is much lower for covid than the perceived risk for most people. Poll a large enough sample size in *any* western democracy and you'll find that most polled will have a perceived risk that is an order of magnitude larger than the actual risk. One survey last year showed that a large portion of those surveyed believed 33 million Americans died from covid. Anyone with any common sense would know that doesn't pass the smell test. A loss of 10% of the entire population isn't going to go unnoticed...
Another really good set of interesting points can be found here - ignore the tweeter and listen to the actual source material.
Tweet from @SebGorka: More COVID facts the CDC & Biden Administration doesn't want you to hear. https://t.co/WRaLZtqC0f
Skybird
08-09-21, 07:28 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-09-21/h_9c6a79bada1c3b54c7d873635394a789
As of Aug. 2, more than 164 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19, according to the CDC. Fewer than 0.001% of those individuals — 1,507 people — died and fewer than 0.005% — 7,101 people — were hospitalized with Covid-19.
https://a1cf74336522e87f135f-2f21ace9a6cf0052456644b80fa06d4f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/images/characters_opt/p-rocky-series-burgess-meredith.jpg
"Jabs! Jabs...!"
... ignore the tweeter and listen to the actual source material.
Tweet from @SebGorka: More COVID facts the CDC & Biden Administration doesn't want you to hear. https://t.co/WRaLZtqC0f
Sorry. I'm a full context guy. The source is part of such.
“Gorka’s (PhD) thesis is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University,”
"Gorka’s a former Breitbart editor with Islamophobic views and ties to neo-Nazi extremists."
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/sebastian-gorka-the-west-wings-phony-foreign-policy-guru-129772/
(You'll no doubt have issue with my source, eh?)
Seeing where you get your 'information' (versus some of the sources I might), I cannot consider you less than extremely (and recklessly) biased. But ... have a beer (or whatever) and maybe stop trying so hard here. The only forum members you're likely to impress/'win over' are fellow Kool-Aid consumers. :03:
3catcircus
08-09-21, 07:55 PM
I was looking at Florida’s inpatient bed situation. It seems at the beginning they geared up and had over 77,971 inpatient beds available. But COVID hospitalizations never came close to reaching that capacity. In fact there remained a truck load of empty beds until November 2020 when the number of inpatient beds was reduced to 55,987, which I think is close to the norm for that state.
Though there have been some big COVID spikes particularly when Florida opened for business. It’s appears hospitals have always been able to handle the influx.
Anyway, that’s my interpretation of the numbers.
I’d really love to find current seroprevelance studies and case fatality rates. But that’s a very rare subject and there’re nowhere to be found.
Shhhh... You're going against the approved narrative. Report to your local re-education pod, friend citizen.
3catcircus
08-09-21, 08:09 PM
Sorry. I'm a full context guy. The source is part of such.
“Gorka’s (PhD) thesis is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University,”
"Gorka’s a former Breitbart editor with Islamophobic views and ties to neo-Nazi extremists."
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/sebastian-gorka-the-west-wings-phony-foreign-policy-guru-129772/
(You'll no doubt have issue with my source, eh?)
Seeing where you get your 'information' (versus some of the sources I might), I cannot consider you less than extremely (and recklessly) biased. But ... have a beer (or whatever) and maybe stop trying so hard here. The only forum members you're likely to impress/'win over' are fellow Kool-Aid consumers. :03:
You probably made the same biased mistake sa plenty of others and didn't even bother looking at it. If you had, you would know that it's linking to a video of an MD speaking in front of a school board in Indiana - explaining exactly why masks, vaccines, lockdowns have *always* been futile for respiratory viruses - and if the goal is to stop covid-19, it's never going to happen.
Rockstar
08-09-21, 08:12 PM
Sorry. I'm a full context guy. The source is part of such.
“Gorka’s (PhD) thesis is about as legitimate as if he had been awarded it by Trump University,”
"Gorka’s a former Breitbart editor with Islamophobic views and ties to neo-Nazi extremists."
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/sebastian-gorka-the-west-wings-phony-foreign-policy-guru-129772/
(You'll no doubt have issue with my source, eh?)
Seeing where you get your 'information' (versus some of the sources I might), I cannot consider you less than extremely (and recklessly) biased. But ... have a beer (or whatever) and maybe stop trying so hard here. The only forum members you're likely to impress/'win over' are fellow Kool-Aid consumers. :03:
Ever hear of Tibor Navracsics? Maybe you really should reconsider using some two bit no name writer from Rolling Stone and like magazines as a reliable source of information concerning a person’s character. Instead maybe focus on the arguement 3catcircus’s brought to the table and offer an educated opinion to further peoples understanding.
Btw regarding Gorka as stated by Tibor Navaracis.
“… In fact, he took a very public role, repeatedly expressing his conviction that whether it be former Nazis in Germany after the war or former communists in Central Europe after 1990, the future of democracy depended upon “lustration,” and on a truthful accounting with the past.
That is why the recent media attacks accusing Mr. Gorka of anti-Semitism and ties to fascist groups are all the more disgusting. Today, as a proud naturalized American citizen, Sebastian Gorka is a deputy assistant to President Trump, a position he is ideally suited to. I have watched with admiration as he found a new home and rose so rapidly to the highest of policy positions, again no doubt thanks largely to his outspoken stance on the values that bind lovers of democracy on both sides of the Atlantic.
I know, whether he was uncovering the shameful truth of the communist background of politicians who had tried to re-invent themselves as enlightened “socialists” or pushing back against the hateful and irredentist messages of new parties such as Hungary’s Jobbik, he did so not for any personal gain but because he believed in the classic liberal ideals of the West.
Many call politics a blood sport, and in many nations, at the highest levels it is. But when a man with the unimpeachable credentials and life story of Sebastian Gorka is falsely accused and associated with the ideas he has spent a lifetime fighting against, then we all pay a price and democracy is sullied for all of us.”
So thanks for taking a big crap on one of the few people left defending democracy Arlo, good job :up:
Opinion, yes. 'Educated?' That, too, is opinion. ;)
Skybird
08-10-21, 04:59 AM
:spammm:
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 07:11 AM
Mike Rowe:
The fact is, millions of reasonable Americans have every right to feel confused and skeptical. Those people you refer to, Steve – the ones now telling us that we can “get back to normal just as soon as everyone is vaccinated” – those are the same people who said, “two weeks to flatten the curve!” Those are the same people who told us that masks were “useless” before they told us they were “critical.” Those are the same people who told us that a return to normalcy would occur just as soon as “the most vulnerable” among us were vaccinated. Then, just as soon as “half the population” was vaccinated. Then, just as soon as we achieved “herd immunity.” Those are the same people who told us they wouldn’t trust ANY vaccine developed under the last administration. Now, those very same people are belittling the skeptics!
Rowe put it this way:
The point I was trying to make, is that half the country has lost faith in our most important institutions. We have a massive credibility problem, exacerbated by powerful people who not only moved the goalposts time and time again, but championed the same restrictions they chose to ignore. In my view, this steady drip of hypocrisy helped foster a deep level of mistrust among millions of unvaccinated Americans.
Last tries to work his away around this argument by dismissing the vaccine hesitant as a bunch of Trump supporters who are too stupid to understand what’s best for them medically, and too selfish to think about anyone but themselves. The only thing this claim reveals is that Last is so consumed by his own partisanship that he can’t help but make everything a matter of Bad MAGA-types vs. Everyone Else, when in reality vaccine hesitancy is much more complicated than politics allows. As Rowe points out, minorities still tend to be more vaccine-hesitant than white Americans. There are many reasons for this, and none of them have to do with Trump.
Skybird
08-10-21, 08:20 AM
Guinea sees an outbreak of the extremely dangerous Marburg virus. The WHO says the lethality varies between 24% and 88%. There is no known vaccine and no known drugs for treatment.
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 08:24 AM
It is quite true that the this virus is pretty much strong as it has the power to sustain in different types of environment and also power of making changes in its formation and can mutate also as published in eduhelphub.com (https://eduhelphub.com/). Thereby, it is easily predictable that this virus could have a long lasting impact on human world.
It is here for good and that is bad.
Now when I need it I can't find it.
It was an article in which a professor in child diseases said that it would be better for the children to get infected, because a natural infection protect a lot more than a vaccine does.
This made me think of this herd immunity...If the grown-ups get infected and survive they must have a better immunity than immunity from a vaccine.
Markus
Mr Quatro
08-10-21, 10:12 AM
It is here for good and that is bad.
I see an over reaction coming soon with the plan to limit the new strains of the old virus with more exceptions of world travel.
Lock downs will be frowned upon and could affect the 2022 elections.
This country for one is in turmoil on what to do ... China as bad as they are seem to have a lock down plan that works or at least they say it does.
Football and fall are on the way ... a third booster shot will be touted as a solution when in reality staying at home is the best thing one can do. :yep:
Skybird
08-10-21, 10:13 AM
"If." The thesis ^ is disputed and debated, open end.
They have the same endless debate over Measels. Since decades. However, empirically the outcome is crystal clear: the naturalists have it wrong.
On Covid 19, the debate still is young and I would not form a final verdict on it yet. Just saying that one cannot conclude from the one on the other.
As I see it, parts of the Wetsehr world are flaigj back into a new dark age, being hotile to science and reason. In parts that is due to religious fanatism: fandamentalism always is a bad thing for reason, no matter whether it is Christian fundamentalism, Islam or Jewish orthodoxy. But its also due to escapism and trying to flee form a world that has beocme so complex and tech.heavy and artificial and fast and competotve that many feel they cannot keep up with it anbymore. They want it to deccelerate. And I even can at leats understand this underlaying motivation, or desire. Its just that I mostly disagree with giving in to it.
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 10:15 AM
I see an over reaction coming soon with the plan to limit the new strains of the old virus with more exceptions of world travel.
Lock downs will be frowned upon and could affect the 2022 elections.
This country for one is in turmoil on what to do ... China as bad as they are seem to have a lock down plan that works or at least they say it does.
Football and fall are on the way ... a third booster shot will be touted as a solution when in reality staying at home is the best thing one can do. :yep:
Continued behavioral changes is a reality. Continued vaccine injections/boosters is a reality. The reason is the virus continues to change. The world needs to learn to live with it. Just the reality of the situation.
... because a natural infection protect a lot more than a vaccine does.
"OPV was recommended for use in the United States for almost 40 years, from 1963 until 2000. The results have been miraculous: Polio was eliminated from the United States in 1979 and from the Western Hemisphere in 1991."
Must have been a fluke and those scared of vaccines now are geniuses.
Ahem.
3catcircus
08-10-21, 10:25 AM
Now when I need it I can't find it.
It was an article in which a professor in child diseases said that it would be better for the children to get infected, because a natural infection protect a lot more than a vaccine does.
This made me think of this herd immunity...If the grown-ups get infected and survive they must have a better immunity than immunity from a vaccine.
Markus
This has been said over and over again by multiple experienced doctors and scientists, based upon decades of medical practice and decades of research.
This is generally always going to be true because infection exposes your immune system to *all* of the virus, not just selected proteins or inactivated virions.
A deeper question is what the outcome will be to people who've been isolated for so long that they're immune systems haven't been routinely exposed to ongoing challenges... Covid isn't waiting around for people - like all viruses, it'll find other hosts. Once it finds another animal reservoir (which it probably already has, given reports of it being found in both domestic and wild animals like dogs, cats, and deer) it's never going away.
Dr. Dan Stock's talk with the Mt. Vernon school board (which Arlo poo-pooed without even watching it due to a bad case of shoot-the-messengeritis) explains in terms easy for non-scientists to understand.
Rockstar
08-10-21, 10:46 AM
"OPV was recommended for use in the United States for almost 40 years, from 1963 until 2000. The results have been miraculous: Polio was eliminated from the United States in 1979 and from the Western Hemisphere in 1991."
Must have been a fluke and those scared of vaccines now are geniuses.
Ahem.
Ahem, yes let’s not forget that science part of better personal hygiene practices and sanitation methods which played a role in keeping polio at bay too. Also my father had polio when he was young and lived to a good old age with no after affects.
Ahem, yes let’s not forget that science part of better personal hygiene practices and sanitation methods which played a role in keeping polio at bay too. Also my father had polio when he was young and lived to a good old age with no after affects.
Good for your father. Mom lived to the age of 45 ... in a wheelchair ... needing s torso brace to sit upright. Yes, that's how percentages work. Had she had access to the Salk vaccine she might well have lived longer and without the wheelchair or torso brace. As would millions of others. Weird how that works. But then, some people care about others beyond their immediate relatives.
We all know how questionable the Mayo Clinic is compared to most other sources of "science education". Never-the-less .... (ignore because ... hey, you don't wanna be wrong or nuthin'):
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808
"How is herd immunity achieved?
There are two main paths to herd immunity for COVID-19 — infection and vaccines.
Natural infection
Herd immunity can be reached when enough people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection.
However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19:
Reinfection. It’s not clear how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have antibodies, it’s possible that you could get COVID-19 again.
Health impact. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the pandemic. This number of infections could lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have existing health conditions. The health care system could quickly become overwhelmed.
Vaccines
Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others.
Herd immunity makes it possible to protect the population from a disease, including those who can't be vaccinated, such as newborns or those who have compromised immune systems.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has given emergency use authorization to a handful of COVID-19 vaccines.
But reaching herd immunity through vaccination against COVID-19 might be difficult for many reasons. For example:
Vaccine hesitancy. Some people may object to getting a COVID-19 vaccine because of religious objections, fears about the possible risks or skepticism about the benefits. If the proportion of vaccinated people in a community is below the herd immunity threshold, a contagious disease could continue to spread.
Protection questions.
It’s not clear how long the COVID-19 vaccines will protect you from COVID-19. Further research is needed to see how much the COVID-19 vaccines reduce transmission of the COVID-19 virus. Also, research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines may have lower efficacy against some of the variants of the COVID-19 virus. New variants, which could be more resistant to vaccines, are regularly emerging.
Uneven vaccine roll-out. The distribution of COVID-19 vaccines has greatly varied among and within countries. If one community achieves a high COVID-19 vaccination rate and surrounding areas don’t, outbreaks can occur if the populations mix.
What’s the outlook for achieving herd immunity in the U.S.?
The U.S. is currently making progress toward herd immunity through a combined approach. The number of fully vaccinated adults continues to rise. In addition, more than 31 million people in the U.S. have had confirmed infections with the COVID-19 virus — though, again, it’s not clear how long immunity lasts after infection.
Given the challenges, it’s not clear if or when the U.S. will achieve herd immunity.
However, the FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at protecting against severe illness requiring hospitalization and death due to COVID-19. Even if it isn’t currently possible to stop transmission of the COVID-19 virus, the vaccines are allowing people to better be able to live with the virus."
This has been said over and over again by multiple experienced doctors and scientists, based upon decades of medical practice and decades of research.
This is generally always going to be true because infection exposes your immune system to *all* of the virus, not just selected proteins or inactivated virions.
A deeper question is what the outcome will be to people who've been isolated for so long that they're immune systems haven't been routinely exposed to ongoing challenges... Covid isn't waiting around for people - like all viruses, it'll find other hosts. Once it finds another animal reservoir (which it probably already has, given reports of it being found in both domestic and wild animals like dogs, cats, and deer) it's never going away.
Dr. Dan Stock's talk with the Mt. Vernon school board (which Arlo poo-pooed without even watching it due to a bad case of shoot-the-messengeritis) explains in terms easy for non-scientists to understand.
Could this be the reason to why some fully vaccinated get infected despite the protection they got ?
Markus
Could this be the reason to why some fully vaccinated get infected despite the protection they got ?
And suffer fewer debilitating or deadly effects of such. Covid is mutating rapidly (and possibly due to the portion of the public refusing readily available vaccines). Basically, it's better to have some protection than none at all.
From the (evil and not to be trusted) CDC:
"Studies show that COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine will also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19. Learn more about the benefits of getting vaccinated.
COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. It typically takes 2 weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. That means it is possible a person could still get COVID-19 before or just after vaccination and then get sick because the vaccine did not have enough time to build protection. People are considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after their second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, or 2 weeks after the single-dose Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html?s_cid=10493:covid%2019%20vacc ination:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 11:59 AM
Could this be the reason to why some fully vaccinated get infected despite the protection they got ?
Markus
The vaccine was never offered as total "immunity" to the virus. It offered getting well faster with less affect to the host.
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 12:01 PM
And suffer fewer debilitating or deadly effects of such. Covid is mutating rapidly (and possibly due to the portion of the public refusing readily available vaccines). Basically, it's better to have some protection than none at all.
From the (evil and not to be trusted) CDC:
"Studies show that COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine will also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19. Learn more about the benefits of getting vaccinated.
COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. It typically takes 2 weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. That means it is possible a person could still get COVID-19 before or just after vaccination and then get sick because the vaccine did not have enough time to build protection. People are considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after their second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, or 2 weeks after the single-dose Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html?s_cid=10493:covid%2019%20vacc ination:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
Something that should not have been fed to the public at large.
Something that should not have been fed to the public at large.
Why?
AVGWarhawk
08-10-21, 12:28 PM
Why?
The highlighted enlarged sentence in your post. The vaccine does not keep a person from getting the virus. It is not immunity in the absolute. The vaccinated can still contract the virus, suffer no effect, carry the virus or minimal affect(quicker recovery). It should not have been advertised as keeping one from getting the virus.
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