Wuhan virus 2020

[ikalugin]

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kommersant.ru%2Fdoc%2F4250971

Russia also seems to be behind the curve on testing, but I have not seen any agregate numbers on people tested.

[Traveller]

Japan's excuse for not testing more:One sore point is Japan's relatively low amount of testing for the coronavirus. The health ministry has built up its testing capacity to more than 6,000 daily but is averaging only about 900 exams per day.

Health Ministry official Yasuyuki Sahara defended the Japan's response, telling a press briefing that the government was trying to prevent patients "rushing into hospitals" and disabling their ability to deal with severe cases.https://japantoday.com/category/national/Coronavirus-response-shows-Japan-still-paralyzed-in-crises-Fukushima-investigator

THIS is a perfect example of the clueless bureaucrats who are currently running the country. They learned nothing from Fukushima. Japan is toast. :nope:

[ikalugin]

Japan's excuse for not testing more:https://japantoday.com/category/national/Coronavirus-response-shows-Japan-still-paralyzed-in-crises-Fukushima-investigator

THIS is a perfect example of the clueless bureaucrats who are currently running the country. They learned nothing from Fukushima. Japan is toast. :doh:


I think you are getting over excited.

[Rufus Shinra]

I think you are getting over excited.
Meh, as of now, people are enjoying picturing this as the end of civilization, acting as if it was mega-Ebola killing painfully all people contaminated.

It's kinda funny.

[Skybird]

Meanwhile, I guess you saw this



https://summit.news/2020/03/10/merkel-expects-60-70-per-cent-of-germans-to-be-infected-with-coronavirus/

Is that real? Or fake news? Not sure here.


Its real, in a way. The number in fact comes not from the government or health ministry, but professor Droste, who is a leading expert for Corona virusses worldwide, i mentioned him, without name, before. He is one of the discoverers of the SARS and belonged to the team developing the first quick test for sARS which was then released under his responsibility even before peer reviewing and testign was completed,he took the responsibility on his own cap just so to get the thing out the door and on the streets. He is seen as one of the gobal lead experts for corona virusses.


Droste gets his number from the R0 value, which indicates how many people an infected person infects himself per iteration of the whole process. So as long as there are many people around who have no immunization, the virus can spread unhindered and saturate the environment. Once this is done, any attempt of containment comes too late, so the priority must be to indeed contain while you still can and while there still are areas where the virus is not present. Thats why we are so royally screwed: we have left the virus so much time to spread unrecognised, that in our small countries there are practically no untouched regions left. This is different in China, apparently, which has many people, but also much more space to keep them separated, while having lcoked down traffic. Airlines still fly in the US, and busses and trains, in Germany they think abotu shuttuing down the railway system now. So that the virus cannot travel. Hongkong, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, on the other hand, small places in themselves, recognised the presence of the virus extremely early and IMMEDIATELY reacted, that why they are successful in slowing down the infection speed. Once sufficient numbers of people in an environment have immunisation, either by vaccine or by having been infected and survived the desease, the virus simply does nto find sufficient numbers of vitims anymore to keep up its pace, so the graoh indicating new infections starts to flatten out, and the whole thing dies out. You remember the debate about measel spreading again and vaccination levels dropping? Thats what it is about. But what does that mean, flattenign the curve? In case of MERS, the pandemic is running until today and since three years, just at a pace that it can be kept under a level that would overwhelm the health system. Indeed, now it is far from that. With Covid19, on the other hand, we are just in the starting phase...


So, the worst case scenario in Germany reads possibly two thirds of the population will get infected, unclear is over what time. They say usually the next 18-24 months.



The claim is not unopposed, another German expert says it underestimates the influence of the medical counterbattle and future medications and vaccines. But this counter argument is uncertain in itself as well. We do not know for sure. We only know that it will become much worse than it now is, that we risking getting overwhelmed by it, and that the Italians are already overwhelmed and are absolutely desperate and terribly trageides happen in their hospitals right now, in huge numbers. Tuskany and Lombardy belong to the European regions with some of the best health service structures on the continent, and different to what rockstar seem to think, their health care is not just that of any 3rd world country, but is very good in quality. Their bed saturation for the population is in the sam elevel like yours in the US.



And now their houses have run out of essentials like O2 . That much overwhelmed they are. Could you imagine what it means how desperate thign smst be if patients cannot even be provifded with O2 anymore and strike aptients get delouevred after 90 mintues instead of 8 minutes - and then are left lying in the corridors andnothign is done, becasue nbody is free anymore to do anything? They now must actively make decison whom they let die. Such conditions we usually only know from times of war.



Meanwhile the CDC has run out of key chemical agent that only gets produce din chi9na that is needed to do some inevtiable splitting thing with the virus DNA. While Rockstar boasts with how fantastic it all is, the CDC in the first weeks or so managed ot get just 170+ testings done, with hilarious with unreal bureactarzcial hurdles attached to it, becasue the intially ordere dtestkits were altered by the CDC to become multi-uporse kits - whcih showed to not function correctly. Weeks were wasted this way when testign aggressively shouold have been pushed. Just two of the prime exmaple how royally the American adminstrative level of health prividying system in the uS has failed. Its terrible in Italy and Iran, its not nive in Germany - but it seems in the US it really sucks.



Some days ago there was reprt in the Guardian, showing that in the whole UK they have only 29 or 30 certain types of intensive care repsoratoroy untis with special equipment as needed in case of very severe pneumonia. This thign sare expensive and usually do not ifteh ge tused, i think thats why thry got rid of them in hugh quantity. The brits will get flattened by what is coming at thenm, I fear, island or not. They already have it on their isand, and onc ethe logarithmic progression has started, it is unstoppable, the graoh then cna only be flattend at the oprice of widneing it, means: fewer cases in a time interval (hopefully fewer cases than that the nubmer could overwhlem the system, that is what it all is about) at the cost of exteding the duration of the pandemic going on. With a vaccine not expected before deep in 2021, and now incraingly beign said nt before 2022, this story will do its damage an fallout for months to come. Do not expect it to be over in summer or autumn.


The latest video by Travweller mentions that it seems that our joy that only the old ones have high kill ratios, was too early, and that now the oyunger ones see their pohysicvolgicla reostence haveing been eroded. they start to get flushed into Italian clincis in growing numbers. this is not unknown from SARS: the old ones got hit first the younger ones second. The hope that both strains get killed by summer temperatures, also seems to not hold.



At the present time, evertyhign works against us. And the Chinese celebrate too early. Becaseu they already lift their quarantining regime. Nobody cna make me think that they have 90% of their populaiton immunised already. In other words: the second wave is ging to ge tthem later this year, and with more power than the first one if tit goes like with the usual bhaviour os seaosnal flu: two waves, the second in autumn then beign twice as intense as he first in late winter early spring.

[Skybird]

It might be a bit more disconcerting to the people of Australia which is where Hanks and his wife contracted the virus, and where they still remain BTW, but please, do go on chicken little.
Not much more I would expect from you. But do really have the indecency to also tell this to the Italians after you learned how desperate their situation is?
I repost this (thanks Traveller), the guy speaks simply reasonable conclusions.

Especially 6:40 on, but also later in the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=t4N09qsMdPQ&feature=emb_logo

[Rockstar]

Actually, I don't think the quality of the health facilities has as much to do with as people will freak out and get serious about staying home once the numbers explode. Once the numbskulls realize they are in it, there will be some serious social distancing. Just my opinion.


reasonable opinion, and I agree. Its just that I think compared to the rest of the world they're pretty damn good. Also unlike Italians we're not exactly a cuddly touchy feely bunch of people. Americans like our personal space so we already got that for us too. :D

[Jimbuna]

I wonder if I can get out of jury duty... by wearing a corona virus mask. Being in a jury pool certainly constitutes a 'mass gathering' imho!:hmmm: I seem to get summoned every two years and my wife had to report earlier this week too...jury service vs jury servitude?

Having recently completed my jury service I agree with your use of the term 'servitude'.....I enjoyed a lifetime exemption because of my former service, that was until someone moved the goalposts and changed it to five years exemption.

I'm not entirely convinced selection is as random as it is claimed because I met three other former officers in the court complex which adds to my suspicion someone is sitting in front of a computer and saying "Oh look, another one who has lost lifetime exemption, lets pick them'

[Jimbuna]

Trump (finally) shut down air travel from Europe ... starting Friday :doh:

He also said President Trump said for most Americans the risk was "very, very low" adding "no nation is more prepared or more resilient than the United States".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51846923

Yet it is being reported here in the UK that there is a severe shortage of testing kits in the US.

[Catfish]

^ Did you watch any of the Trump videos about the virus :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

the test kits. according to CDC testimony before congress the other day. I understand that the CDC has 75,000 kits available and that there are currently 1 million and growing through commercial sources. to be tested certain criteria must be met. this is to prevent a log jam delaying results for people that truly need them. It is not reasonable to test every of the 350 million people in the U.S. just because they want one. You still need to go see a doctor.

8.3 billion additional funding was approved to combat the virus most of which went towards developing a vaccine.

[Rockstar]

the other topic CDC was talking about before congress. Europe, your free flowing open borders are going to cause us (and you) major problems. It was recommended we take action, presto next day all flights cancelled.

[Rufus Shinra]

reasonable opinion, and I agree. Its just that I think compared to the rest of the world they're pretty damn good.
Compared to the developing world's, which makes the majority of the population, I guess, yes.

[Mr Quatro]

This makes sense after two of their cruise ships have already experienced casualties from Covid-19.

The cruise line said that they want to take care of their own first. :up:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/carnivals-princess-cruises-suspends-global-operations-for-2-months-on-coronavirus-fears/ar-BB115PNm?li=BBnb7Kz

Carnival's Princess Cruises suspends global operations for 2 months on coronavirus fears

Princess Cruises, the operator of two coronavirus-stricken ships, said on Thursday it would suspend
global operations of its 18 cruise ships for twomonths, sending shares of its parent company Carnival Corp down 22% in premarket trading.

32 days today I've been sick :oops:

I thought my flu was over last week, but I went to bed coughing and woke up coughing ... Now I'm back to treating it with just over the counter meds.
My first thought was maybe the flu is in my home and I need to clean it better. :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

Did any one else think Trump looked particularly pained when he gave his brief address on Wednesday night? He was so stilted and awkward it kind of reminded me of one of those hostage videos where someone is holding up cue cards with the demands while another person holds a gun on the hostage speaking; did anyone see if maybe Trump was trying to send a hidden signal, you know like blinking out Morse code or something? Or, maybe, he was inwardly contemplating how he has royally screwed the pooch and frittering away his hopes of reeleection... :haha:


Yeah, he looked like he was out of it. He has a high likelihood of having the virus, with all the people he sees daily. God, I hope Mike Pence is feeling strong. He's the same age as me but in far better condition.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFt_ziNU8AA_P_P?format=jpg&name=large


Meh, as of now, people are enjoying picturing this as the end of civilization, acting as if it was mega-Ebola killing painfully all people contaminated.

It's kinda funny.

Really? Where?




He also said

Yet it is being reported here in the UK that there is a severe shortage of testing kits in the US.

Yeah, boilerplate Trump, has to add some put downs of Europe, boast about how the US is the best and most capable, blah blah. Honestly, China did a far better job handling this than we have done. Labs across the US have been ordered not to test by the CDC. (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-testing-numbers/607714/)


the sluggish rollout of the tests has become a debilitating weakness in America’s response to the spread of the coronavirus. By this point in its outbreak, South Korea had tested more than 100,000 people for the disease, and it was testing roughly 15,000 people every day. The United Kingdom, where three people have died of COVID-19, has already tested more than 24,900 people.





‘It’s Just Everywhere Already’: How Delays in Testing Set Back the U.S. Coronavirus Response (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html)

C.D.C. officials repeatedly said it would not be possible. “If you want to use your test as a screening tool, you would have to check with F.D.A.,” Gayle Langley, an officer at the C.D.C.’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease, wrote back in an email on Feb. 16. But the F.D.A. could not offer the approval because the lab was not certified as a clinical laboratory under regulations established by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, a process that could take months.

Dr. Chu and Dr. Lindquist tried repeatedly to wrangle approval to use the Seattle Flu Study. The answers were always no.

“We felt like we were sitting, waiting for the pandemic to emerge,” Dr. Chu said. “We could help. We couldn’t do anything.”

[Rufus Shinra]

When people here or elsewhere are saying that their country is frakked because this or that decision wasn't taken fast enough, that it'll be a complete nightmare, I can't help but to roll my eyes. Same for the rushes seen for stores and the like, it's pretty amusing, Onkel.

The economic issues, OTOH, are going to be more painful and reinforced by the panic.

[STEED]

Trump (finally) shut down air travel from Europe ... starting Friday :doh:

EU not us...:O:

Oh wait hang on maybe some of us who visited Europe in a certain time frame. :o

Good news for jim if he gets called up again for jury service, USA here he comes. :)

[STEED]

DAY 4 My Supermarket toilet roll shelf today....:o :o :o :o

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=10875&albumid=1277&dl=1584023816&thumb=1

Every where else is like this and one small shop is now charging £5 for four rolls!!!!

Dam you panic buyers.

[Rockstar]

I went to the store last night to pick some more canning jars. On the way in I saw two people rolling out carts with nothing else but toilet paper.

[Catfish]

EU not us...:O: [...]
It is all the EU's fault.

[Catfish]

I went to the store last night to pick some more canning jars. On the way in I saw two people rolling out carts with nothing else but toilet paper.
Does FoxNews also produce printed media? :hmmm:
:O:


Seriously, the reaction of people is irrational to say at least.

[Rufus Shinra]

What the... living in Lyon and even as we're supposed to have tons more contaminations both in absolute and per capita than the States, I did my grocery run two days ago without any difference in how things went. Went to a small store at noon, no issues either.

But then, I remember back in 2017, when I was in Houston and Harvey was coming, tons of people were also going for panic-buying. Is that cultural?

[Onkel Neal]

When people here or elsewhere are saying that their country is frakked because this or that decision wasn't taken fast enough, that it'll be a complete nightmare, I can't help but to roll my eyes. Same for the rushes seen for stores and the like, it's pretty amusing, Onkel.

The economic issues, OTOH, are going to be more painful and reinforced by the panic.

Well, hmm, maybe you're right, :hmmm: I would argue that the possibility this could get bad and become a complete nightmare is real, I suppose it depends on your definition of a nightmare. I am not suggesting it will kill everyone or even a majority. I'm not going to repeat the points made previously that this pandemic has real potential to disrupt the day to day life of most people, you must have read the reasons for this and dismissed them. We shall see. I would point out that the panic is caused by people who wait till the last minute to prepare. I'm not panicking.




DAY 4 My Supermarket toilet roll shelf today....:o :o :o :o

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=10875&albumid=1277&dl=1584023816&thumb=1

Every where else is like this and one small shop is now charging £5 for four rolls!!!!

Dam you panic buyers.

Eh, you waited till now to get supplies? Wait a few days, it will be back in stock.


I went to the store last night to pick some more canning jars. On the way in I saw two people rolling out carts with nothing else but toilet paper.

Fear of a shortage ramped up the shortage. I'm not worried about TP. It does not go bad or stale, we have enough to last 8 weeks, more if we ration.

[Rufus Shinra]

Well, hmm, maybe you're right, :hmmm: I would argue that the possibility this could get bad and become a complete nightmare is real, I suppose it depends on your definition of a nightmare. I am not suggesting it will kill everyone or even a majority. I'm not going to repeat the points made previously that this pandemic has real potential to disrupt the day to day life of most people, you must have read the reasons for this and dismissed them. We shall see. I would point out that the panic is caused by people who wait till the last minute to prepare. I'm not panicking.
Different mindsets as well. I know a number of people in what you people call the 'Deep State', and they're pretty damn smart as well as devoted to the common good, so I'm not that worried about the crisis management overall. The disturbance is going to cost a number of lives, possibly two elderly relatives of mine, which would hurt a LOT, considering how close I am to them, but it's not exactly the end of things.

Hell, we lost 4 % of our entire population one century ago, the active people whom the economy needed most, and we got back on our feet afterwards, so I'm confident in our ability to survive a crisis that will be a human tragedy but not a systemic societal failure.

The danger is with the economy, and that's what the government has realized fast enough. To be blunt, we can lose 100,000 elderly people and it will be a tragedy, but we can't lose our economic and industrial foundations without it being a disaster. Panicking and going for long-lasting, ill-defined quarantines or disorganizing everything will be more damaging in the long term than reinforcing the medical efforts, working on resilience and remembering the dead.

Blunt, inhumane, but that's the calculations one has to make at this scale. Generals make such every day in war.

Or to use a submarine metaphor, when you took a depth charge near-miss, you trust the Captain to get the boat out of long-term danger, and if it means letting a mate die to save more battery racks, you do so. Panicking will just lead to more damage overall. So keep calm and carry on is the motto.

[AVGWarhawk]

The buying up of certain items because of this virus equates to the same buying up of products for an impending snow storm or hurricane. For some it makes sense because of the impending threat. Usually seen in the news with a swirling eye of a storm or ominous mass of snow carrying clouds. Get supplies! For a virus though? Most simply wash their hands, sneeze into a tissue and keep clear of anyone that may be sick. This preventative measure has worked for decades.

So, no, I don't understand the crazed buying up of supplies. And if crap paper runs out....use some leaves or hose yourself off. :haha:

[Skybird]

US study finds that the virus survives up to 72 hours on plastic and steel surfaces.

Quoted by German media.

The german claim that contaminated surface cannot spread the infection by smear, with this finding becomes incredible. What you can smear on a surface, you can smear off a surface as well.


However, in the aerosol of the air the virus cannot be detected anymore after 3 hours.

[Onkel Neal]

...you people...




Say what?

The disturbance is going to cost a number of lives, possibly two elderly relatives of mine, which would hurt a LOT, considering how close I am to them, but it's not exactly the end of things.

Sure, I think exactly the same as you. But in my eyes, that is a nightmare. So I call it that.

[AVGWarhawk]

US study finds that the virus survives up to 72 hours on plastic and steel surfaces.

Quoted by German media.

The german claim that contaminated surface cannot spread the infection by smear, with this finding becomes incredible. What you can smear on a surface, you can smear off a surface as well.


However, in the aerosol of the air the virus cannot be detected anymore after 3 hours.

Then public places need to be cleaned well and should be anyway. The exact same way other viruses are combated.

[Rufus Shinra]

The buying up of certain items because of this virus equates to the same buying up of products for an impending snow storm or hurricane. For some it makes sense because of the impending threat. Usually seen in the news with a swirling eye of a storm or ominous mass of snow carrying clouds. Get supplies! For a virus though? Most simply wash their hands, sneeze into a tissue and keep clear of anyone that may be sick. This preventative measure has worked for decades.

So, no, I don't understand the crazed buying up of supplies. And if crap paper runs out....use some leaves or hose yourself off. :haha:
Or, you know, realize that if you're under fifty, that virus isn't exactly a threat to you. In the US, there's a bit more than one death per 10,000 people per year due to car crashes. The virus kills roughly 0,2 % of the under 50-yo people, and that's mainly, IIRC, people with pre-existing conditions already.

So, yeah. Buying supplies only makes sense if you feel your government is going to collapse entirely. I don't.

[Rufus Shinra]

Say what?



Sure, I think exactly the same as you. But in my eyes, that is a nightmare. So I call it that.

Well, I suppose there are men, women and attack helicopters on the forum, so I'm not going to say 'you guys'. 'You people' seem wide enough. Unless there are gender-fluid non-binary pansexual horsekin posters here, in which case I'll edit to 'you people and equines' ( https://terminallance.com/2016/01/08/terminal-lance-new-corps/ )'.

[AVGWarhawk]

Or, you know, realize that if you're under fifty, that virus isn't exactly a threat to you. In the US, there's a bit more than one death per 10,000 people per year due to car crashes. The virus kills roughly 0,2 % of the under 50-yo people, and that's mainly, IIRC, people with pre-existing conditions already.

So, yeah. Buying supplies only makes sense if you feel your government is going to collapse entirely. I don't.

I'm not under 50. I'm not in a panic. The flu kills thousands yearly. Where is the panic?

Here are last years numbers for the flu:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

[Rufus Shinra]

I'm not under 50. I'm not in a panic. The flu kills thousands yearly. Where is the panic?

Here are last years numbers for the flu:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Well, there is a panic among buyers, it seems. Ah, well, if they like having their place full of toilet paper...

[Onkel Neal]

Well, I suppose there are men, women and attack helicopters on the forum, so I'm not going to say 'you guys'. 'You people' seem wide enough. Unless there are gender-fluid non-binary pansexual horsekin posters here, in which case I'll edit to 'you people and equines' ( https://terminallance.com/2016/01/08/terminal-lance-new-corps/ )'.


"You people" directed at me implies something you have no idea about and you are offering deflections to avoid admitting it. Not sure what all your other stuff is about but it sounds Freudian.

[Mr Quatro]

It was funny at first with the Costco shoppers now it's hitting my favorite way to get supplies from Walmart :o

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/03/11/coronavirus-preparation-walmart-target-ration-limiting-hand-sanitizer-disinfecting-wipes/5020751002/

Coronavirus rationing: Target, Walmart limit purchases of hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes, toilet paper

Shoppers hoping to stock up on hand sanitizer and disinfecting wipes are running out of options as more coronavirus cases continue to surge.

Many stores including Target, Walmart, Kroger and Publix are restricting shoppers by placing limits on how many of these COVID-19-related items that shoppers can buy with signs citing "high demand" or "increased demand."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8080723/Cops-called-California-Costo-mass-panic-broke-ran-toilet-paper.html

Cops respond to mass panic at California Costco that ran out of toilet paper and bottled water - as the franchise reveals sales are up a 12.4% on last year as shoppers stock up amid coronavirus outbreak

[Rufus Shinra]

"You people" directed at me implies something you have no idea about and you are offering deflections to avoid admitting it. Not sure what all your other stuff is about but it sounds Freudian.
Huh. I guess it might, after a Google check, though I don't really come from that same cultural background. I simply say that to cover everyone in the group to which I'm talking, in this case the posters on this forum. Sorry if there was some offense, none was meant.

For the rest, it was mainly a joke about how ridiculous the 'rules' can become these days when it comes to cover everyone in a group, online or offline, referencing one of my favourite Terminal Lance comics. I'd rant about 'inclusive speech' and how it murders our grammar with a blunt instrument, but that ain't the topic.

[Skybird]

What looms ahead for Germany. Not nice.


http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus.de%2Fgesundheit%2Farzt-klinik%2Fkommentar-zu-sars-cov-2-pandemie-coronavirus-deutschen-intensivstationen-droht-der-kollaps_id_11762875.html


The authors talk frankly, different to the government.



No, people, this is not just another seasonal flu.

[em2nought]

On some level "buying" stuff seems to be comforting to people, so when there is trouble on the way I think part of it is that people like to buy stuff. Hoarders love to be surrounded in their "stuff" so.... "Buying" may also give a feeling of having some control over something that you don't have much control over. :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Huh. I guess it might, after a Google check, though I don't really come from that same cultural background. I simply say that to cover everyone in the group to which I'm talking, in this case the posters on this forum. Sorry if there was some offense, none was meant.
.


Ok, thanks, I understand.

[Skybird]

On some level "buying" stuff seems to be comforting to people, so when there is trouble on the way I think part of it is that people like to buy stuff. Hoarders love to be surrounded in their "stuff" so.... "Buying" may also give a feeling of having some control over something that you don't have much control over. :hmmm:
Do you fasten your seatbelts when entering your car and are about to drive away? I mean it is quite irrational a fear to do so, you cannot control accidents, so I wonder why people do it.

[Rufus Shinra]

On some level "buying" stuff seems to be comforting to people, so when there is trouble on the way I think part of it is that people like to buy stuff. Hoarders love to be surrounded in their "stuff" so.... "Buying" may also give a feeling of having some control over something that you don't have much control over. :hmmm:
Hmm, might explain why I bought lots of stuff when I visited a SSBN, to control the nukes. :-P

Nah, more seriously, it's pretty much on-point, helplessness is an awful feeling, and people usually need a lot of rituals to get over that feeling, to get the impression they control their fate when some events are too big for individual influence over them. Sailors' traditions are a good example of it, as are many rituals, be they organized or personal (OCD is a good example).

I shouldn't throw stones, it took me a lot of time to stop worrying about living close enough to a strategic target that my life expectancy would be counted in seconds once the warning sirens rang (think London's four minutes warning).

We can't do anything about this epidemic, just do our best to not further complicate the job for the medical workers and the administration.

[Mr Quatro]

I shouldn't throw stones, it took me a lot of time to stop worrying about living close enough to a strategic target that my life expectancy would be counted in seconds once the warning sirens rang (think London's four minutes warning).


Think positive the country that launched the missiles first only have 15 minutes left till we retaliate :yep:

[Rufus Shinra]

Think positive the country that launched the missiles first only have 15 minutes left till we retaliate :yep:
Oh, we'd retaliate, but that'd only mean more people trying to steal my plushies in Hell. Still, my heart usually beats a skip when the sirens are tested once a month. Unless I'm with a foreigner at that moment, in which case I wonder whether to pull their leg and tell them Iran is attacking and they need to find cover.

Decisions, decisions...

[AVGWarhawk]

Or, you know, realize that if you're under fifty, that virus isn't exactly a threat to you. In the US, there's a bit more than one death per 10,000 people per year due to car crashes. The virus kills roughly 0,2 % of the under 50-yo people, and that's mainly, IIRC, people with pre-existing conditions already.

So, yeah. Buying supplies only makes sense if you feel your government is going to collapse entirely. I don't.

Yes, but just about everyone wears a seat belt. With that logic, people should wash hands, not touch their face, stay clear of those that are visibly sick and most of all...get plenty of rest.

The government will not collapse certainly. Although I think some are trying to cause a collapse.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, there is a panic among buyers, it seems. Ah, well, if they like having their place full of toilet paper...

Well, there is always room for additional toilet paper. It is useful stuff in certain situations.

But like a snow storm or hurricane, snow melts and one can get to the store. Hurricanes blow over and one can get to the store. This virus will pass as well and one can get to the store.

The truly sad part here is the media is driving this panic. This virus is not like ebola virus.

[Rufus Shinra]

Yes, but just about everyone wears a seat belt. With that logic, people should wash hands, not touch their face, stay clear of those that are visibly sick and most of all...get plenty of rest.

The government will not collapse certainly. Although I think some are trying to cause a collapse.
Well, these safety gestures are the ones recommended by governments for a reason, rather than going straight for the President Madagascar route.
Well, there is always room for additional toilet paper. It is useful stuff in certain situations.

But like a snow storm or hurricane, snow melts and one can get to the store. Hurricanes blow over and one can get to the store. This virus will pass as well and one can get to the store.

The truly sad part here is the media is driving this panic. This virus is not like ebola virus.
Yep. Ah, well, I guess it means the healthcare workers will be the ones honoured this year, compared to the fire brigades last year. Other than that, life goes on and survivalists will mutter 'next time, next time...'. As for the media, they'll milk it as much as possible, as usual.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, these safety gestures are the ones recommended by governments for a reason, rather than going straight for the President Madagascar route.

Yep. Ah, well, I guess it means the healthcare workers will be the ones honoured this year, compared to the fire brigades last year. Other than that, life goes on and survivalists will mutter 'next time, next time...'. As for the media, they'll milk it as much as possible, as usual.

I'm waiting on the zombie apocalypse. :03:

[Rufus Shinra]

I'm waiting on the zombie apocalypse. :03:
My main flat has reinforced windows, a 4 cm thick steel door and the police is a couple of minutes away on foot. I guess it'll be a noisy afternoon before I get to do the grocery run while carefully stepping around zombie corpses. Or I guess I'll have to man the barricades, as each generation usually does at least once, but this time we'll have the police AND the Germans on our side for a change. :-P

There's a reason Shaun of the Dead is my favourite zombie movie: the Army comes in within the day and ends the whole thing. Zombie apocalypses are even less scary than normal pandemics, heh heh.

[u crank]

As for the media, they'll milk it as much as possible, as usual.

And that is a big part of the problem. For them this is like finding money on the street. They live for this and do everything they can to sow fear and panic. I for one am very sceptical when it comes to the MSM's coverage of this thing.

[Rufus Shinra]

And that is a big part of the problem. For them this is like finding money on the street. They live for this and do everything they can to sow fear and panic. I for one am very sceptical when it comes to the MSM's coverage of this thing.
Fun thing is, 'alternative media' are even worse about that... and other covered subjects. They are just as much a business as the MSM, but with even less oversight and ethics, not caring about their reputation since they're appealing to niche markets that will look only for confirmation of their initial bias.

[u crank]

Fun thing is, 'alternative media' are even worse about that... and other covered subjects. They are just as much a business as the MSM, but with even less oversight and ethics, not caring about their reputation since they're appealing to niche markets that will look only for confirmation of their initial bias.

Well to be honest I don't see much difference. The MSM has more money, a bigger audience and the big name talking heads, but if they are no more reliable than some guy's blog it puts them on the same level. And then there is the obvious political bias to deal with.

[Buddahaid]

"The system is not really geared to what we need right now... let's admit it," said Dr Anthony Fauci from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51860529

[Rockstar]

BBC takes "not geared to what we need right now" and turns it into "system failing" Now go to BBC health and look how many reports of wonderful things their government and health system doing and are just johnny on the spot working miracles to stem the tide of the virus. Thats what I noticed a lot about European news sources always seem to point out the perceived failings of others particularly the United States. In what I think is a distraction attempting to convince their own citizens how its so much better for them where they're at.




If anyone here in the United States really thinks it is better to be on a small relatively isolated infected island better hurry next flight leaves in ten minutes

[Rufus Shinra]

Well to be honest I don't see much difference. The MSM has more money, a bigger audience and the big name talking heads, but if they are no more reliable than some guy's blog it puts them on the same level. And then there is the obvious political bias to deal with.
Huh, I guess that's another cultural difference. We have pretty tough laws relating to media, and going for outright lies or made-up stuff, that kind of thing, leads to harsh fines or being removed from the air (once again, cultural differences in our relation to the administration and government, it's accepted and it works quite decently here even though it'd be anathema for most anglo cultures), so there's a bit more trust for large media. I can understand where the anglos come from, though, what with Sinclair and Murdoch doing their stuff and political ads being the norm.

Still, the 'alternative media' are IMO even worse because they can afford to do stuff that would wreck the viewership numbers for larger media, since they have a smaller individual market.
BBC takes "not geared to what we need right now" and turns it into "system failing" Now go to BBC health and look how many reports of wonderful things their government and health system doing and are just johnny on the spot working miracles to stem the tide of the virus. Thats what I noticed a lot about European news sources always seem to point out the perceived failings of others in what I think is a distraction attempting to convince their own citizens that its so much better for them where they're at.




If anyone here in the United States really thinks its so much better to be on a small relatively isolated island better hurry next flight leaves in ten minutes
Thing is, the public healthcare systems are still quite more effective in general (better results than privatized system for a much lower cost while still supporting strong healthcare industries) and against epidemics in particular, considering they aren't creating an environment where millions prefer to 'tough it out' rather than facing absurdly high bills. In normal conditions, it's already much worse, but with an epidemic...

[Rockstar]

I think the population in Italy would tend to disagree with your general assessment of the benefits of public healthcare. That's not to say it's all bad but then neither is private healthcare. Both have dedicated people who care a great deal but without a doubt sometimes they have to deal with imperfect systems.

[Rufus Shinra]

I think the population in Italy would tend to disagree with your general assessment of the benefits of public healthcare. That's not to say it's all bad but then neither is private healthcare. Both are good but without doubt imperfect systems.
While the South Korean public system works well. Though we'll have to wait until this blows off to know more about each system's failings. For starters, we have yet to know how many infections are taking place in the US, considering the CDC's... suboptimal reaction.

[Rockstar]

While the South Korean public system works well. Though we'll have to wait until this blows off to know more about each system's failings. For starters, we have yet to know how many infections are taking place in the US, considering the CDC's... suboptimal reaction.




Like I said before we dont have a centralized system of government, a dictatorship, magic wand. Its just not us, so our system of government will certainly move slower in comparison. Nor do I think we have to wait around for this to blow over to see who failed. It seems to me this type of thing happening wasn't on anyone's RADAR screen. I dont believe anyone was prepared at the level of readiness we all wish we were at right now. Its not the end of the world we will get through this.



And I should add too your well deserved recognition of South Korea that Singapore appears to really have their act together too

[Mr Quatro]

Add Nascar to the list of sports being effected by Covid-19 :yep:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/motorsports/nascar-no-fans-at-this-weekend-e2-80-99s-race-in-atlanta/ar-BB116CeR


NASCAR has made it official: No fans will be allowed at this weekend’s race at Atlanta Motor Speedway.

The decision is due to the spread of coronavirus.

NASCAR tweeted the announcement, saying that the race will be restricted to competitors, crews, officials and other “necessary personal to conduct the race.”

[Buddahaid]

Sure everything is fine. I expect it won't be long before all sporting events are participants only but give it a few more weeks. Even if they don't make that mandatory I certainly won't attend any until the pandemic is under control and many others will feel the same way.

[Rufus Shinra]

Like I said before we dont have a centralized system of government, a dictatorship or magic wand. With ours it does seem to move a little slower in comparison. Though I dont think we have to wait around for this to blow over to see who failed. Quite frankly I dont think this type of thing was anyone's RADAR screen. I dont think anyone was prepared at the level of readiness everyone wishes we were at right now. Its not the end of the world we will get through.
Oh. It's not the end of the world by far, but still, at the very least, the CDC is going to need a serious revamping because they failed extremely hard at their main job, for which they have a massive budget compared to equivalents around the globe, and some strong reputation until last month.

One of the biggest questions for the epidemic, IMHO, remains to know how many people are infected in the US, because that could hamper even harder the global economy if the lack of response leads to general contamination and important fatalities on experienced leadership and employees. IIRC, Boeing stopped its production in Washington, which in itself could be one hell of a mess as the US will have to subsidy it even harder at the same time Airbus will have to do whatever it can to prevent a full monopoly to happen (they don't want such a monopoly). This kind of disruption will hit value chains in both directions, top-down and bottom-up, and will hurt everyone, which I don't like, being part of the 'everyone'.

I still think the White House should force the hands of the private hospitals and the such, to make sure testing and treatment are made free, if only to get more people to, you know, cooperate properly with the fight against the epidemics. In the end, I think it'd be cheaper than the economic consequences of the epidemic going unchecked over the States.

As for Singapore, yeah, not surprising the place where you get fined or maybe even beaten over for spitting on the ground gets stuff done quickly in case of an epidemic. That must be pretty high in their threat list.

[Buddahaid]

Australian GP canceled.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51849163

[Rockstar]

More good information and treatment studies.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4_LsftNKM

[Rockstar]

Oh. It's not the end of the world by far, but still, at the very least, the CDC is going to need a serious revamping because they failed extremely hard at their main job, for which they have a massive budget compared to equivalents around the globe, and some strong reputation until last month.

One of the biggest questions for the epidemic, IMHO, remains to know how many people are infected in the US, because that could hamper even harder the global economy if the lack of response leads to general contamination and important fatalities on experienced leadership and employees. IIRC, Boeing stopped its production in Washington, which in itself could be one hell of a mess as the US will have to subsidy it even harder at the same time Airbus will have to do whatever it can to prevent a full monopoly to happen (they don't want such a monopoly). This kind of disruption will hit value chains in both directions, top-down and bottom-up, and will hurt everyone, which I don't like, being part of the 'everyone'. You aint just whistlin' Dixie boy. Many of economic thinkers were already saying we were heading for a recession. The Fed has for sometime now been throwing cash at the problem regularly pumping billions to keep our economy afloat. So buckle up, I think this virus just nailed the coffin shut. Like it or not, we're in for a very deep global economic recession. The virus will be over and the economy will still stink most foul. Nice thing about failing economies though is they usually fall fast and end with a loud thump as we land on our collective arses. Its the ride back up that's usually slow and painful. But its a great opportunity to as they say 'buy the dip' problem right now is wondering where its at.

I still think the White House should force the hands of the private hospitals and the such, to make sure testing and treatment are made free, if only to get more people to, you know, cooperate properly with the fight against the epidemics. In the end, I think it'd be cheaper than the economic consequences of the epidemic going unchecked over the States. Contrary to popular believe the United States healthcare system is not one big for profit only system. By law private hospitals must treat emergency room patients. How bills get paid later is another matter. I know from experience there are a truck load of charities and institutions who help if not pay all in these matters when people cant afford the bill.

According to American Hospital Association's AHA Hospital Statistics publication. We have over 5,000 hospitals in the U.S. and only 1,000 of them are private for profit type. The rest are divided up into about 1200 state and federal tax payer funded (PUBLIC) hospitals and the rest are non-profit. Non profit doesnt mean they cant make a profit though, they have to use it for something. In many cases they build and support free clinics throughout the U.S. Being you're in Europe Im sure you hear quite often how terrible our healthcare system is. Probably just about as often we hear about how terrible yours is over there. :) Seems they're always trying to convince us its the other guy that has all the problems. All I can do is speak for myself when I say I'm very happy about the cost and care I've received.

As for testing according to the CDC: Clinicians should base their decisions on whether a patient should be tested for COVID-19 on:


Signs and symptoms,
Local epidemiology, and
If the patient has had close contact with a confirmed COVID-19 patient or a history of travel from an area with sustained transmission within 14 days of symptom onset.

Which at the moment make sense as it prevents people from just coming in demanding one so they feel better about themselves. There are people who need this information fast. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) authorized the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) on February 4, 2020. Its being used to authorize new labs to speed up determining results of these tests. However the fact remains nothing is free, even in your country, somebody has to pay for the development and administration of those tests. Either my insurance, the tax payer, the non-profit, or charity. And its no where near the 3,000 plus dollar test social media we heard about on social media that story was a complete fraud.


As for Singapore, yeah, not surprising the place where you get fined or maybe even beaten over for spitting on the ground gets stuff done quickly in case of an epidemic. That must be pretty high in their threat list. Government whipping that corona virus into submission ;)

[Rufus Shinra]

Contrary to popular believe the United States healthcare system is not one big for profit only system. By law private hospitals must treat emergency room patients. How bills get paid later is another matter. I know from experience there are a truck load of charities and institutions who help if not pay all in these matters when people cant afford the bill.

According to American Hospital Association's AHA Hospital Statistics publication. We have over 5,000 hospitals in the U.S. and only 1,000 of them are private for profit type. The rest are divided up into about 1200 state and federal tax payer funded (PUBLIC) hospitals and the rest are non-profit. Non profit doesnt mean they cant make a profit though, they have to use it for something. In many cases they build and support free clinics throughout the U.S. Being you're in Europe Im sure you hear quite often how terrible our healthcare system is. Probably just about as often we hear about how terrible yours is over there. :) Seems they're always trying to convince us its the other guy that has all the problems. All I can do is speak for myself when I say I'm very happy about the cost and care I've received.
Well, I do find it interesting that the one system which is organized in a fundamentally different fashion is both more expensive for the taxpayer (you pay several thousand dollars more taxes for the healthcare system than I do) and leads to significantly lower healthy life expectancy at birth (http://gamapserver.who.int/mapLibrary/Files/Maps/Global_HALE_2016.png and http://gamapserver.who.int/mapLibrary/app/searchResults.aspx) than, well, all other developed countries. All that money saved could buy quite a number of additional carriers and submarines. :-P


You might have received decent healthcare, but there's quite the room for improvement. The whole thing about emergency care you described means that people wait until it becomes an emergency, which makes the care more expensive for everyone. In the case of the coronavirus, it means people will wait much longer before getting themselves checked and isolated, which leads to more contaminations. IMO, it would be cheaper overall if Capitol Hill just footed the bill for all testing and care in this epidemic right now rather than waiting for more and more people to be contaminated, leading to increased economic cost: it's preventive maintenance of the human machinery of the industry, and it costs less to put some WD-40 regularly in the gears than to replace them when they break.

[Buddahaid]

US suspends all major sports. Unless you're a woman apparently.....
https://www.bbc.com/sport/basketball/51847482

[Onkel Neal]

I've been told this is a fake website that delivers malware. See the circled url and avoid it.

[Onkel Neal]

I've been told this is a fake website that delivers malware. See the circled url and avoid it.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=3004&d=1584049663


UNCLASSIFIED (U) - TLP: WHITE PAGE: 1 OF 2
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
A malicious website pretending to be the live map for Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins University is circulating on the internet waiting for unwitting internet users to visit the website. Visiting the website infects the user with the AZORult trojan, an information stealing program which can exfiltrate a variety of sensitive data. It is likely being spread via infected email attachments, malicious online advertisements, and social engineering. Furthermore, anyone searching the internet for a Coronavirus map could unwittingly navigate to this malicious website.

Threat Details
A sample of the malware being deployed by “corona-virus-map[dot]com” was submitted and analyzed by and received an extremely malicious threat score of 100/100 with Anti-virus (AV) detection at 76%. This sample was labelled by Hybrid-Analysis as a Trojan.

Recommendations
End users should be warned about this cybersecurity risk and security teams should blacklist any indicators associated with this specific threat. IOCs and Analysis may be found here: https://blog.reasonsecurity.com/2020/03/09/covid-19-info-stealer-the-map-of-threats-threat-analysis-report/

Requests for Information
Need information on a specific cybersecurity topic? Send your request for information (RFI) to HC3@HHS.GOV or call us Monday-Friday, between 9am-5pm (EST), at (202) 691-2110.

[Onkel Neal]

Contrary to popular believe the United States healthcare system is not one big for profit only system. By law private hospitals must treat emergency room patients. How bills get paid later is another matter. I know from experience there are a truck load of charities and institutions who help if not pay all in these matters when people cant afford the bill.


Why do you think your insurance rates keep going up? Why do you think doctor charges, tests and hospital fees are so high? You're paying for those patients. You're footing the bill for those costs.

[Skybird]

This is about a fictional virus scenario study from 2012, delivered to the German Bundestag in 2013, with striking similiarities, but also differences, to the current scenario. However, the conclusion must be: the authorities should and could have done better, faster, quicker, more decisively. The federalist structure of Germany, currently works against us in full effect.

The study was ordered in (late) reaction to SARS .

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tagesspiegel.de%2Fberlin%2Fpan demie-szenario-der-regierung-die-medizinische-versorgung-bricht-bundesweit-zusammen%2F25637470.html

We can only hope that we can evade the dimension this study outlines over the cause of three years.

In the end, we will survive and probably defeat this virus. The question is how many years it will take, how many lives, how much economic damage will be done, and how many people must suffer. Clear also is that in the coming months, and not just a few months, but the rest of this year and probably also the coming year, many things we have taken for granted so far, will change.

[mapuc]

^ Been thinking almost the same.

How servere will the aftermath be. Because there will be an aftermath the question is how servere and how it will hit us.

Markus

[Rufus Shinra]

Why do you think your insurance rates keep going up? Why do you think doctor charges, tests and hospital fees are so high? You're paying for those patients. You're footing the bill for those costs.
Add to this your taxes paying for the healthcare system in your country. And yet somehow in pretty much every other developed country out there, we pay roughly half less and we get everyone covered with objectively better results. Mainly because getting preventive medicine and not waiting until it becomes an emergency makes healthcare cheaper and more effective for everyone (https://external-preview.redd.it/h6WT-SkmDWoxDYrrhoYaFcr4281B06JpcdpCi8chw1E.png?width=6 40&crop=smart&auto=webp&5f0b3e64). You get more for your buck with the systems chosen by Japan, Germany, Sweden, UK, Canada and the others, all the while having a healthy biomedical industry. Back in 2009, you paid three times more taxes for the healthcare system than a Japanese citizen, and without getting the same amount of service.

The thing is that even if you are very wealthy, it's not working that much better either with this system. This graph from your National Academy of Medicine shows the life expectancy for 50-yo people depending on their relative wealth in each country. It shows that in the best of cases, the wealthiest people in the US live just as long as the wealthiest in Canada or France (only men in that latter case), while the other categories quickly fall behind. In short, the system is too inefficient for additional spending to be worthwhile.

https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/0/9/0ad618bd642d46e6409b452dd818de48c8cf1ef32e6f60c656 ffcfc911420a/p2001e0cfg136001.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nap.edu%2 Fopenbook%2F13089%2Fxhtml%2Fimages%2Fp2001e0cfg136 001.jpg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1


If people wait for illness to become ER material in everyday life because they cannot afford otherwise, why would they act differently for Covid-19?

[Buddahaid]

Your taxes are higher to pay for it.

Anyway, the New York Auto Show has been rescheduled for August. Seems like everybody is finally taking is seriously in the USA. Now if we can only match South Korea for testing but I doubt it. They're doing 20,000 tests a day with easy to use drive up testing stations because they had a plan and implemented it.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2020/03/11/2020-new-york-auto-show-delayed-until-august?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20_March_12_Newsletter_NewDD

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51836898

[Rufus Shinra]

Your taxes are higher to pay for it.
No. That's the point, the taxes are LOWER pretty much everywhere else for better results:

https://www.oecd.org/media/oecdorg/directorates/directorateforemploymentlabourandsocialaffairs/health/Health-expenditure-per-capita-2015.JPG

The system is inherently inefficient in the US due to its organization, and it leads to a situation where you are more vulnerable to epidemics while getting overall inferior service, while the other countries still manage to fund well their biomedical R&D. I mean, you could save roughly one trillion dollars a year by shifting to a more efficient system (300 million people times 3000 dollars saved per capita) and it would improve the performance. Wanna go on Mars? That's how you fund it.

[Mr Quatro]

Breaking news

Disneyland and Disneyworld to close scroll on CNN :o

[Buddahaid]

Forgot that one. It's no longer the happiest place on Earth. :O:
https://timeentertainment.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/06_top10saddestkidsmovies.jpg?w=600

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

My store went through eight PALLETS, that's right pallets of TP and paper towels in only a couple of hours. People know that this is a virus and not a hurricane right?

[Buddahaid]

Well crap!

I think it's more a question of not wanting to go shopping among the "unclean".

[ET2SN]

Well crap!



Assuming we all make it, imagine what next Halloween will be like. :o

[Rufus Shinra]

Schools and universities to close for at least two weeks in France starting next Monday. The government will compensate companies that have to send people home when remote work isn't possible (if you're a factory and have to send some of your workers home, you'll still pay them but the gov' will reimburse you for that, so we don't see mass bankruptcies and lay-offs due to the epidemic).

[Catfish]

Hello Rufus Shinra,
thanks for posting this, i just tried the link 3-4 posts above but it does not work ("forbidden blah.."). Is there another link?
Thank you.

[Rufus Shinra]

Hello Rufus Shinra,
thanks for posting this, i just tried the link 3-4 posts above but it does not work ("forbidden blah.."). Is there another link?
Thank you.
This one should work well: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Health_systems_comparison_OECD_2008.png

This also shows interesting stats, notably on how spending a lot more leads to less doctors per capita, higher infant death, lower life expectancy and more preventable deaths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_comparisons

People in the US aren't dumber or more fragile than elsewhere, but the healthcare system is criminally inefficient.

[Catfish]

Thanks, though i would have liked the links to the 4 other graphs, i guess it is all somewhere on the OECD page.

Sometimes i like to have evidence and hard numbers, to at least counter the wildest defamatory statements with evidence and some common sense.
Not that it makes a difference to the true believers :D

[Rufus Shinra]

Thanks, though i would have liked the links to the 4 other graphs, i guess it is all somewhere on the OECD page.

Sometimes i like to have evidence and hard numbers, to at least counter the wildest defamatory statements with evidence and some common sense.
Not that it makes a difference to the true believers :D
Ah, no problem, here you go, complete source, and it comes from the NIH, so no claiming it's 'foreign propaganda':

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK62591/

[Catfish]

[..] complete source, and it comes from the NIH, so no claiming it's 'foreign propaganda': https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK62591/
Thanks again. But you are of course wrong, all that differs from Trump's war on truth must be foreign propaganda and fake news, or even science (gasp). Thanks for standing together in those times Mr. President, we will not forget it.

[Rufus Shinra]

Thanks again. But you are of course wrong, all that differs from Trump's war on truth must be foreign propaganda and fake news, or even science (gasp). Thanks for standing together in those times Mr. President, we will not forget it.
Le Meh. Not gonna turn this into a political cluster*YAY*, just pointing out that this level of inefficiency is hurting everyone, me included, considering the far-reaching consequences of what happens in the States.

[Traveller]

Will warmer weather help fight the coronavirus? Singapore and Australia suggest maybe not.Here is one area in which experts hope the virus will still behave like influenza, however, by tapering off in spring.

Warm weather slows the flu: Influenza thrives in cold and dry conditions (https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.0030151), and behavioral differences in winter can also have an effect.

Nelson Michael, a leading US military medical researcher, predicted the coronavirus may behave like the flu and give us "less trouble as the weather warms up," but, he cautioned, it could come back when the weather gets cold again.

But warm countries around the world still have outbreaks.More than 100 cases have been confirmed in Singapore, where it's hot and muggy pretty much year round. Australia, Brazil and Argentina, all currently in the middle of summer, have also reported dozens of cases. And some of the worst hit areas around the world -- from Wuhan, where the virus was first detected, to Iran, Italy and South Korea -- are on more or less the same latitude (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3550308), with similar temperatures and relative humidity

A variety of other factors also affect how this pandemic will play out, making influenza an inexact comparison -- for instance, the infectiousness of the virus and behaviors to reduce its spread.

"We are not dealing with a virus like influenza that behaves predictably every year," said Debra Chew, an assistant professor of medicine at Rutgers.New Jersey Medical School.
Canadian Prime Minister's wife tests positive for coronavirus.Grégoire Trudeau has mild symptoms and is feeling well, and will remain in isolation for 14 days, the Prime Minister's office said in a statement late Thursday.

She came down with mild flu-like symptoms Wednesday following a speaking engagement in the UK. Health officials are reaching out to those who've been in contact with her, the office said.

"The Prime Minister is in good health with no symptoms. As a precautionary measure and following the advice of doctors, he will be in isolation for a planned period of 14 days, (http://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/index.html)" the office said.

It added that on the advice of his doctors, he'll not be tested since he has no symptoms. He'll continue with his duties, and plans to address Canadians on Friday.London tube driver tests positive.A London Underground driver has tested positive for coronavirus, Transport for London has confirmed.

A TFL spokesperson said: “A train driver on the Jubilee line has tested positive for COVID-19. They are receiving support from health services and are self-isolating.

"Their duties mean they were not working in a customer facing area. The safety of our staff and customers is our top priority and we are taking all necessary precautions.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-13-20-intl-hnk/index.html


2,651 new cases confirmed in Italy on Thursday. Largest single-day increase so far. Total deaths top 1,000.Italy’s health ministry said as of 6 p.m. local time on March 12, there were a total of 15,113 cases, including 1,258 people who have recovered and 1,016 who have died.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-latest-updates-covid19.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy/0/c154b285a81d8c34b3a553ef495ca4e5903549e4.png

[Jimbuna]

All elite football in England has been suspended until at least 3 April as a result of the spread of coronavirus.

All Premier League games, EFL fixtures and matches in the FA Women's Super League and Women's Championship have been postponed.

The Premier League said action would resume on 4 April "subject to medical advice and conditions at the time".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51867989

[Catfish]

All schools in lower saxony to be shut from monday on, for five weeks (including easter holidays).

[Skybird]

The EU has suspended all fiscal rules and debt limits.

The german government has said it gives unlimited credit when and where needed. No capping.

The Germans skip capping of debts.:o If anyone still had doubts that the situation is serious - now his doubts should be dead as stone.

[Traveller]

Silence and ghosts...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/gallery/coronavirus-empty-spaces/index.html

[Commander Wallace]

With the NHL Hockey season officially on hold, I am really " bummed out. " Baseball is also officially on hold as is The NCAA Basketball " March Madness tournament. "

My lady and I watch the Hockey games together as she is a great sport. She told me that with the cancellations, it will give us more time for things like in depth discussions. During the season, all I understand is defense men, centers and wingers and hockey fights

I'm wondering how she is going to react when she finds out I'm not capable of anything resembling " in depth discussions. " :)

Seriously, I think things will get worse before they get better with the Carona virus. I received word that the " Blessing of the Bikes " event scheduled for next month to kick of the motorcycling season will also most likely be cancelled. In good weather, it draws many thousands, many with their motorcycles, many from great distances.

[Jimbuna]

Urgent: China says COVID-19 peak is over :hmmm:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/12/c_138870305.htm?fbclid=IwAR3EUl3zY2euefovMGaEcB4Kw KkKi4H0r-NVR2uGuC77jIicpSQ1ALB4_GI

[AVGWarhawk]

Urgent: China says COVID-19 peak is over :hmmm:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/12/c_138870305.htm?fbclid=IwAR3EUl3zY2euefovMGaEcB4Kw KkKi4H0r-NVR2uGuC77jIicpSQ1ALB4_GI

Can we trust those that were padding the numbers of those infected? :hmmm:

[Traveller]

Urgent: China says COVID-19 peak is over :hmmm:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/12/c_138870305.htm?fbclid=IwAR3EUl3zY2euefovMGaEcB4Kw KkKi4H0r-NVR2uGuC77jIicpSQ1ALB4_GI

Until the second, larger wave hits... :03:

[Jimbuna]

Can we trust those that were padding the numbers of those infected? :hmmm:

In a word....NO

[AVGWarhawk]

In a word....NO

I concur!

[Traveller]

Spain declares nation-wide state of emergency.Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has declared a 15-day state of emergency over the coronavirus pandemic.No details yet, but perhaps they will follow Italy and declare a nation-wide lockdown soon. Should be interesting...

Americans flee Spain as country declares state of emergency.US citizens are waving goodbye to Spain as the country declared a state of emergency and President Trump sharply restricted travel to the United States from more than two dozen European countries.

After three days of quarantine measures, Madrid's public transport was deserted, main roads were traffic-free and department stores in the city center were almost empty.

Schools, libraries and theaters were closed, with even outdoor playgrounds sealed off.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-13-20-intl-hnk/index.html

[Mr Quatro]

China says a lot of things, but they never did stop the huge amount of drug trafficking that kills more people than the Covid-19 and they still ship dog food and pet food that kills your pets.

They use forced labor to produce their goods and are you ready for this all (I say all) antibiotics are produced in China. :o

But wait I haven't had my morning coffee yet ... what happens when this is over will we see what we did by trusting China for cheaper goods?

I hope so :yep:

The list of closers is growing to fast to list them all ... Here's a list :yep:


Coronavirus closures: List of events, sports, and more canceled amid covid-19 fears

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-closures-list-of-events-sports-concerts-cancelled-amid-covid-19-fears/?fbclid=IwAR3W-_V4EabgYUhUtQNyxW2vtMfuNYyyQ5QFSKSrao7gI8immMsv4D6 2G18

[Rufus Shinra]

I just found who was hoarding the toilet paper:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f91/20/11/59/50/schwar10.jpg

[Traveller]

Vast coronavirus burial trenches in Iran visible in satellite photos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1238101039330603008

See all the white in the photo? Are those wrapped bodies? How many can those massive trenches hold? 10,000? 50,000? :o

[Mr Quatro]

Vast coronavirus burial trenches in Iran visible in satellite photos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1238101039330603008

See all those white dots in the photo? Those are wrapped bodies. How many can those massive trenches hold? 10,000? 50,000? :o

Wow! Thank you, but I can't believe how many people (including famous people) that hate trump on social media like Twitter.

That's why I don't go there I guess :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

Wow! Thank you, but I can't believe how many people (including famous people) that hate trump on social media like Twitter.

That's why I don't go there I guess :yep:

Twitter is full of hate and vitriol. Absolutely horrible form of social media.

[Traveller]

I despise all social media, but please try to overlook the fact that it was a Washington Post Twitter post. The main thing is that this is probable proof the virus has perhaps already killed tens of thousands in Iran.

Italians must fill out paperwork to buy groceries or visit hospitals.The Italian government has required the public to fill out paperwork in order to leave their own homes to perform commonplace tasks, such as buying groceries or visiting the hospital. The new quarantine rules are a result of the draconian measures taken by the Italian government in an attempt to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

Italians who are caught outside of their houses without the proper forms filled out could face criminal charges, fines up to €206, and potentially up to three months in prison, reports La Repubblica.https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/12/italians-must-fill-out-paperwork-to-buy-groceries/

[Mr Quatro]

I despise all social networking, but please try to overlook the fact that it was a Washington Post Twitter post. The main thing is that this is probable proof the virus has perhaps already killed tens of thousands in Iran.

Italians must fill out paperwork to buy groceries or visit hospitals.https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/03/12/italians-must-fill-out-paperwork-to-buy-groceries/

Iran can't keep it secret forever ... this may be the straw that breaks religion in Iran as the people rebel against a lying regime :yep:

[Rufus Shinra]

And don't you think you are in your own echo chamber here? As for interpreting sat pictures to make them say whatever one wants, it's so classical I wouldn't give them much attention. After all, we also saw tons of videos and the such 'proving' there were tens of thousands fatalities in China, etc.

Don't get to caught up in confirmation bias, it's an easy way to make massive errors, like back in 2003. Satellite photos were involved as well, if I remember correctly.

[Skybird]

Urgent: China says COVID-19 peak is over :hmmm:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/12/c_138870305.htm?fbclid=IwAR3EUl3zY2euefovMGaEcB4Kw KkKi4H0r-NVR2uGuC77jIicpSQ1ALB4_GI
I am willing to bet money on that there will be a second wave (and maybe even a third wave) in a couple of months. And I bet that China will not allow easily any words being reported on that, because: the allmighty party has decided that the issue is to be over, and so it has to be over. Anything else would be an affront to the party and his divine entity emperor Xi, who are allmighty and inerrant and always right and all-potent and absolute and total and wonderful and great.

One should not have believed a word of what china claims on anything in the past. And in the future, any claim on Covid-19 being defeated should be believed even less. They lie, lie, lie, and will do so in the time to come.

Its not even worth to report what the government says on these things. I suggest we simply do not post it. It only spreads their propaganda. Because some, few useful idiots they always will pick up with their noise. Since their science reports are heavily censored as well, even academic conversations must be taken with utmost care and hesitation. Never forget: China has no interst whatever to let the world learn about he real dimension of what has happend on Tianmen Plaza. Or with the Uigures. Or in Tibet. Or regarding Corvid-19. Saving one's face is more important than truth. Saving once's face is more important than lives. Saving once's face even justifies murder and mass murder.

[AVGWarhawk]

I am willing to bet money on that there will be a second wave (and maybe even a third wave) in a couple of months. And I bet that China will not allow any words beign rported ont hat, becasue: the allmighty part has decided that the issue is to be over, and so it has to be over. Anythign else would be an affront to the party and his divine entity emperor Xi, who are allmighty and inerrant and always right and all potent and absolute and total and wonderful and great.

One should not have beleived a word of what chian colaism on anythign in the past. And int e future, any claim ion Cowvid-19 should be believed even less. They lie, lie, lie, and will do so in the time to come.

Its not even worth to report what the government says on these things. I suggest we simply do not post it. It only spreads their propaganda. Because some, few useful idiots they always will pick up with their noise. Since thewir scince reprots are heaivly censored as wlel, even academic conversations must be taken with utmost care and hesitation. Never fogret: China has no interst whatevber to let the world learn abiotut he rela diemnsjion of what has happend on Tianmen Plaza. Or with the Uigures. Or in Tibet. Or regarding Corvid-19. Saving one's face is more important than truth. Saving once's face is more important than lives. Saving once's face even justifies murder and mass murder.

If and when there is a second wave there will be a vaccination. Most come out of this with rest and over the counter medications. It is no worse than SARS.

[Skybird]

If and when there is a second wave there will be a vaccination. Most come out of this with rest and over the counter medications. It is no worse than SARS.
We do not know when a vaccination comes, but it is nto epxetced before deep in 2021. Seaosnl flu has a seocn wave just 4-7 months after the first one, and suually is about twice as intense. Seaosnal flu usually doe snot mutate, the risk in the Corna virus now is unassessable, it couidl mutate once again anytime. There already are two strains, Italians thoink they have a third strain. You need vaccinations for ever ystrain, not just for one.

You COULD be right, but you have no reason and arugment for optimism.

BTW, MERS is running UNTIL TODAY.

The Chinese population is not saturated with immunised individuals. Thus the virus, which is still there and in the wild, will spread again. Assuming it will not, has no basis currently.

[Traveller]

AVG, a second, larger wave will hit once their lockdown ends and workers head back to idled factories, offices, stores, etc.

The minimum time to develop, test, manufacture, and distribute a new coronavirus vaccine is 12-18 months (but more realistically 2-4 years in my opinion, which would still be a world record). The SARS vaccine took 7 years to develop and distribute.

But even if a vaccine is eventually created, experts are now saying this new coronavirus will probably become seasonal (will probably mutate frequently like the cold virus, which also belongs to the larger coronavirus family), and is here to stay- same as influenza and cold viruses. But unlike influenza, this new coronavirus is about 6x more contagious and at least 10x deadlier. Even with a yearly vaccine, the flu still kills about 600,000 per year worldwide on average. So we could still be looking at 6 million deaths per year on average with a vaccine.

For herd immunity to occur, approximately 70% of the world's population must become infected, which (according to epidemiology experts) will probably happen within the next 12-18 months- well before a vaccine is ready. And remember that if this virus frequently mutates like other coronaviruses do, herd immunity won't last long and everyone will be reinfected with each new mutated strain. Just remember that at any given time, there are approximately 200 new and different strains of the common cold virus each year (which is why they cannot create a vaccine or cure).

My greatest fear is the possibility of this new virus regularly mutating into hundreds of different strains like the cold virus does. If that were to happen, there will never be an effective vaccine or herd immunity. And if it maintains it's R0 of 6, plus a CFR of 5%, we could be looking at hundreds of millions of deaths per year, with no way to maintain a functional modern society. Let's pray it doesn't come down to that.

Either way, best fasten your seat belt now, because this ride is just beginning.

Miami mayor tests positive for coronavirus.Miami Mayor Francis Suarez has tested positive for coronavirus, his spokesperson said.

The mayor's office said he feels well and is not showing any symptoms. He remains in quarantine.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-13-20-intl-hnk/index.html

[mapuc]

(Warning a joke input)

Regarding toilet paper.

I have many years ago heard some expert saying about 2/3 of us believe more or less in some conspiracy

Back to this toilet paper thing.

Someone have plantet an idea in cyberspace that covering the entire body with toilet paper will protect one from being infected by this Corona.

So now you know the reason to why 2/3 of the human have been hoarding toilet paper.

End of a joke input

Markus

[Catfish]

^ :haha: :up: Maybe the pharaohs.. oh better not

[Mr Quatro]

Back when the America Indian saw the end of time :yep:

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/28/62/363018917-bd882a2350c9cfdc654f637d5c366303.jpg

[Catfish]

Chinese official blames coronavirus outbreak on US military :haha:
"The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment." Better not react at all methinks.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/

As dumb as blaming it on Europe.
Let all the "great leaders" meet and let them wrestle and scrap, while the rest of the world just goes on living.

[Rufus Shinra]

So, I hear Donnie just declared a state of emergency. For a simple cold.

[Buddahaid]

Stupid comment.

[Rufus Shinra]

Stupid comment.
Well, that's how he described Covid-19 not so long ago. ;-)

[mapuc]

Denmark have taken a dramatically step. The government have decided to close their borders from tomorrow Saturday(14 March) and until 13th April.

Only goods, medicin, Danish citizens, other citizens who live in Denmark and people who live in either Sweden or Germany and commute to their work in Denmark will be allowed to cross the border-Others will be refuse to enter.

Citizens who live in Denmark have been given orange warning to travel to other countries The Danish State Department have marked entire world Orange.

Back to daily living in a country who are in a health crisis.

Today when I toke the bus to the neighbour town. I could see they had made some drastic change. Now only 25 person is allowed on the bus and only one person per seat.

When sitting there on the bus, I couldn't help thinking what one of you wrote(guess it was Skybird) how this virus could survive between three hours and three days on surfaces or more, depending on the material.

If a person can be infected by sitting or other things in an area where a infected have been some minutes or hours ago, then all these step our authorities or politicians have taken will be useless.
(I truly hope I'm wrong)

Edit.
Just got this on my wall and it's about Corona surviving outside an infected person.

This means the coronavirus could theoretically infect someone after hanging out on a door handle or handrail for several days – another good reason to wash your hands regularly with soap and warm water.
They also found that the pathogen can live in the air in an aerosolized form for up to 3 hours.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air-for-several-hours-and-on-surfaces-for-three-days-study-suggests/?fbclid=IwAR0Ae2bKipUP0uHEbV2fzOaJ39A7Zg3JtUAjiHf2 HqKr001fcEIYZ86suAk

End of edit.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

So, I hear Donnie just declared a state of emergency. For a simple cold.

Donnie as you call him is in reality the President of the United States and what he is doing right now will save lives.

This country is not going to go down the drain because of the POTUS no matter what CNN thinks :arrgh!:

[Rufus Shinra]

Donnie as you call him is in reality the President of the United States and what he is doing right now will save lives.

This country is not going to go down the drain because of the POTUS no matter what CNN thinks :arrgh!:
Meh, I'll call him Donnie, and it's fair game laughing at him, considering how much posters here like laughing at the rest of the US politicians. After all, most of the Western world laughs at him already.

[Catfish]

Donnie as you call him is in reality the President of the United States and what he is doing right now will save lives.
This country is not going to go down the drain because of the POTUS no matter what CNN thinks :arrgh!:
Trump:
"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!"

"The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”"

I will of course state that Trump is doing his best. I will not go further in this matter. All who do not support his view are traitors and produce "fake news".

There are ten thousands of professional people dealing with the situation, and it will be them who will tackle the situation. I wish them and the american people all the best.

[mapuc]

Seems like this Corona will hit USA hart.

This is just going to keep spreading. We have to stop fooling people into thinking this is only by close contact where I have to be within 2 or 3 feet. We’re going to see much more transmission,” he said. “There will be widespread transmission of this virus around the country, and what we have to do is keep people who are at high risk of having bad outcomes, older, underlying health conditions, from being exposed.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/10/us-isnt-prepared-for-outbreak-this-is-a-coronavirus-winter-and-were-in-the-first-week.html

Markus

[Rufus Shinra]

I will of course state that Trump is doing his best. I will not go further in this matter. All who do not support his view are traitors and produce "fake news".
Now, now, since I'm not a US citizen, I can't be a "traitor" for not following the "Dear Leader": I am an enemy. Using the proper vocabulary is important. Plus, in the US, treason is a pretty complex charge to throw, and I would need to be a US citizen giving aid and support to the US' enemies in time of war for that to stick.

Just saying.
Seems like this Corona will hit USA hart.



https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/10/us-isnt-prepared-for-outbreak-this-is-a-coronavirus-winter-and-were-in-the-first-week.html

Markus
That's what had been said since it appeared the CDC botched the first response and the hospitals didn't start checking people for Covid-19 for free. The virus has been running around unchecked.

[Catfish]

@ Rufus Shinra
Ok i change my statement, adding:
"I will of course state that Trump is doing his best. I will not go further in this matter. All who do not support his view are traitors and produce "fake news", or are members of the EU."

[Rufus Shinra]

@ Rufus Shinra
Ok i change my statement, adding:
"I will of course state that Trump is doing his best. I will not go further in this matter. All who do not support his view are traitors and produce "fake news", or are members of the EU."
On that we can roughly agree though I'll have to politely show my unease on the perception that US citizens disagreeing with the POTUS are traitor, both on a legal standing - due to the US Constitution's definition of treason - and on a philosophical one as well - the freedom of opinion and of speech is, AFAIK, covering the option of having dissenting opinions compared to the chief of the executive. But I suppose this isn't the thread for discussing the implications for democracy of branding as traitors people who disagree with their current Head of State.

[Buddahaid]

You were joking and I didn't pick up on that.

[Skybird]

Donnie as you call him is in reality the President of the United States


:har: Oh my, this Führerkult in the US never fails to make people like me laughing.

But keep on kneeling. Bad habits are hard to break. :up:

[August]

:har: Oh my, this Führerkult in the US never fails to make people like me laughing.

But keep on kneeling. Bad habits are hard to break. :up:


Kneeling before dictators? Us? No Skybird, there's a reason Führerkult is a German word. Americans would never debase themselves the way your people did. Like you said bad habits are hard to break.

[Rufus Shinra]

Kneeling before dictators? Us? No Skybird, there's a reason Führerkult is a German word. Americans would never debase themselves the way your people did. Like you said bad habits are hard to break.
"It can't happen here." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here) ^_^;


Just feel familiar to see people calling traitor anyone disagreeing with The Leader. ;-)

[August]

"It can't happen here." ^_^;


Just feel familiar to see people calling traitor anyone disagreeing with The Leader. ;-)




So where are you from then Rufus? Most folks here put their location or home country in their profile.

[mapuc]

We can always discuss if our leaders and our authorities have done the right thing in this matter.

I must say I agree with what one of the Danish politician said on the news earlier. It's not the time to throw word against each other, but stand together in this crisis.

Markus

[Rufus Shinra]

So where are you from then Rufus? Most folks here put their location or home country in their profile.
The country of freedom (that's litterally the meaning of the country's name: "free") and a very long history of kicking asses militarly while being feared by our own political leaders for deposing them when they become inconvenient: France. ;-)

[August]

The country of freedom and a very long history of kicking asses militarly while being feared by our own political leaders for deposing them when they become inconvenient: France. ;-)


You should put that in your profile so folks will know where you are coming from.

[Rufus Shinra]

You should put that in your profile so folks will know where you are coming from.
I thought it was obvious, considering how insufferable and arrogant I sound. But, yeah, done.

[mapuc]

(An off topic input)

For me it's not important where a member live or where their are from. The important thing for me is how they are treating others here on our forum.

Markus
(End of an off topic input)

[Skybird]

Kneeling before dictators? Us? No Skybird, there's a reason Führerkult is a German word. Americans would never debase themselves
You do it right now - worshipping the carricature of a president and a leader with serious psychological and personality disorders. :har:
And dont fool yourself. The failings and budget cuts of Trump and his cracking down on the CDC in past years will and must cost many of your citizens their lives - that under a different, less incompetent regime they maybe would have saved.



But march on little tin soldier, one, two, three, four, always march on, blind and loyal, three and four... Illusions justify every means.

[August]

I thought it was obvious, considering how insufferable and arrogant I sound. But, yeah, done.


:)



FWIW I personally don't find our oldest allies nearly as insufferable and arrogant as some of my German relatives. :03:

[Skybird]

Anyhow, with the trading of personal poison shots out of the way for today, here are the latest two updates by chris Martens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogf6Hru2trE

"Your grandparents were called to war. You are being called to sit on the couch. Do it!"

And just 40 minutes ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWEakkc_xxs

"Follow people if they make a lot of sense, but if they are not - go and follow into a different direction..."


It seems "recovered" does not always mean "recovered". Lung function loss of 20-30% sounds pretty severe to me. (20:20 ff)

[Rufus Shinra]

:)



FWIW I personally don't find our oldest allies nearly as insufferable and arrogant as some of my German relatives. :03:
That means more arrogance is required! *gets his military grade thin cigarettes and beret before grabbing August to a art cinema for fifteen hours of gazel-naving philosophical movies which will be paused ever eight point five seconds to start a commentary based on the latest artistic fad followed by a mandatory strike*


(I won't get upstaged by the Germans!)

[Skybird]

(I won't get upstaged by the Germans!)
We have just closed the border to your Elsass region. ;) You have been warned. :D
(Fact, not joke, the Saarland shut down).

[Rufus Shinra]

We have just closed the border to your Elsass region. ;) You have been warned. :D
(Fact, not joke, the Saarland shut down).
Sigh. At least noone is getting idiotic over "austerity measures" now. And, well, the plan agreed upon between the House Democrats and the WH seems to be reasonable, about supporting workers and companies during the crisis in order to avoid an economic meltdown.

[STEED]

Neal, still no bog paper any where around here. :timeout:

Why are stupid people buying up tons of bog paper? Some one in the UK please tell me as there is no evidence COVID-19 gives you the trots. :Kaleun_Mad:

[Reece]

Same thing here in Australia, who knows why!! I suppose if they die of the virus they will at least have clean butts!! :yep:

[STEED]

Same thing here in Australia, who knows why!! I suppose if they die of the virus they will at least have clean butts!! :yep:I am really angry at these selfish bastards.


Coronavirus: Why are people panic buying and why toilet paper?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-are-people-panic-buying-and-why-toilet-paper-11952397

So it could be people are getting ready for the end of the world.

[August]

That means more arrogance is required! *gets his military grade thin cigarettes and beret before grabbing August to a art cinema for fifteen hours of gazel-naving philosophical movies which will be paused ever eight point five seconds to start a commentary based on the latest artistic fad followed by a mandatory strike*


Won't help I just watched Jean Renoirs Grand Illusion, in French, entirely of my own free will.



(I won't get upstaged by the Germans!) Unless they invade again... :)

[Skybird]

Neal, still no bog paper any where around here. :timeout:

Why are stupid people buying up tons of bog paper? Some one in the UK please tell me as there is no evidence COVID-19 gives you the trots. :Kaleun_Mad:
Feeling itchy? I almost dont dare to ask - but since when haven't you been able to clean yourself? :88)

[Buddahaid]

Neal, still no bog paper any where around here. :timeout:

Why are stupid people buying up tons of bog paper? Some one in the UK please tell me as there is no evidence COVID-19 gives you the trots. :Kaleun_Mad:

Subscribe to a daily newspaper. Problem solved.

[Traveller]

US ventilator manufacturers still not ramping up production.American companies that manufacture ventilators are not yet ramping up production in anticipation of an influx of coronavirus patients — at least, not yet — but several told Breitbart News on Friday that they could do so quickly. “There may be a surge in demand. It hasn’t happened yet,” said Eli Crawford, sales manager at Allied Health Care Products, Inc. (http://www.alliedhpi.com), in St. Louis.

There are relatively few companies that produce ventilators, but several are based in the U.S., and they can likely be produced locally if needed in an emergency.

Crawford noted that his company’s ventilators are manufactured in the U.S., with locally-sourced components, meaning the company is largely insulated from possible supply chain disruptions in China.

He also said that production could be ramped up quickly — provided employees were not under quarantine.https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/13/coronavirus-ventilator-manufacturers-not-ramping-up-production-yet/

There may be a surge in demand? Gee, ya think? :timeout:


Bill Gates suddenly steps down from both Microsoft and Berkshire Hathaway boards.Microsoft (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=MSFT) announced on Friday (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/microsoft-announces-change-to-its-board-of-directors-301023293.html) that Bill Gates is leaving the board, effective Friday. Gates is also stepping down from his position on the board of Berkshire Hathaway (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=BRK.A).

“I have made the decision to step down from both of the public boards on which I serve – Microsoft and Berkshire Hathaway – to dedicate more time to philanthropic priorities including global health and development, education, and my increasing engagement in tackling climate change,” Gates said on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/focusing-my-time-bill-gates/).
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/bill-gates-leaves-microsoft-board.html

Now this is an ominous sign. I'm sure he's warming up his private jet at this very minute, ready to head for a secret bunker on some private island. :yep:

[Skybird]

Subscribe to a daily newspaper. Problem solved.
But wouldnt one prefer to get loo paper clean and not already full of sh!t?

[Onkel Neal]

You do it right now - worshipping the carricature of a president and a leader with serious psychological and personality disorders. :har:
And dont fool yourself. The failings and budget cuts of Trump and his cracking down on the CDC in past years will and must cost many of your citizens their lives - that under a different, less incompetent regime they maybe would have saved.



But march on little tin soldier, one, two, three, four, always march on, blind and loyal, three and four... Illusions justify every means.

Without delving into the politics too deeply in this virus thread, I believe from interacting with Trump supporters in my area, the allegiance is actually stronger to opposing the Virtue signalling, social justice warrior, "tax us and take care of us" liberals more than Trump. It just happens that Trump is the standard bearer in a way no other conservative or Republican had the vision or guts to be.



Neal, still no bog paper any where around here. :timeout:

Why are stupid people buying up tons of bog paper? Some one in the UK please tell me as there is no evidence COVID-19 gives you the trots. :Kaleun_Mad:

Oh man, I'm sorry. Hang in there, it's just a matter of time, you have to know the owners of the TP factories are anxious to get more product out there to sell. Check with a neighbor, see if they will trade some TP for something you have a surplus of... hell, tell them I'm send them a SUBSIM cap. :shucks:

Now this is an ominous sign. I'm sure he's warming up his private jet at this very minute, ready to head for a secret bunker on some private island.

No, no, no, come on, now. Bill Gates has shown he is a solid humanitarian, let's not start any conspiracy stuff that denigrates the man. :03:

[Traveller]

No, no, no, come on, now. Bill Gates has shown he is a solid humanitarian, let's not start any conspiracy stuff that denigrates the man. :03:Just a little joke. Wasn't trying to denigrate him. I've always liked Bill Gates. Very smart guy. :) But it does show that he is very concerned about becoming infected.


Italian actor pleads for help after sister dies from coronavirus.
An actor who appeared on Italian mafia crime (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/crime/index.html) drama Gomorrah was forced to plead for help on Facebook after being trapped with his sister's dead body for 36 hours while quarantined at his Naples home over coronavirus (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html) fears.

Luca Franzese, who played a member of the 'sciarmante' gang in mob TV show Gomorrah, has released a series of impassioned videos, appealing for funeral services to pick up the corpse of his sister, Teresa Franzese, 47, who tested positive for the coronavirus after her death on Saturday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8100479/Gomorra-actor-pleads-help-trapped-sisters-dead-body.html

Very sad.


France confirms 800 new cases on Friday. Largest daily increase so far.
The number of coronavirus cases in France jumped by 800 from Thursday to Friday, French Health Minister Olivier Veran said at a news conference.

A dramatic jump: Just a few days ago, France was reporting about 200 cases a day, which had already been enough to raise alarm of an outbreak in the country.

France now has 3,661 cases nationwide and 79 deaths, according to the health ministry and Johns Hopkins University & Medicine.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-14-20-intl-hnk/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTFk34nhoI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C98FmoZVbjs&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQdYDkwtvoo


Here's one of Chris Martensen's most notable videos, which is from February 10. Worth watching again if you haven't already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Ho96UKfYA


John Hopkins University: There are currently between 50,000 and 500,000 infected in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_xjLV886A4

Also, here's a comment I came across posted on Chris Martenson's latest video. Anectdotal and cannot be verified, but not surprising if true, because this virus is killing many younger, healthy people too: my sister’s best friend works at the massive hospital in Paris. Over 20 dead : 20-30 yo, in good health. But they are not allowed to report it.

[Rufus Shinra]

Yeah, the 'not allowed to report it' nonsense is the usual fare of trolls and conspiracy theory script writers. We've seen this every damn time, supposedly a close relative working here or there not allowed to report the 'terrifying reality'. Pro-tip, though: if your conspiracy theory relies on the bloody French to be blindly obeying their government without exception even when it's stupid, I'd recommend you to open a History book and to look the actual reason why Paris has such wide boulevards.

Literally because the Parisians kept building barricades in their streets during their riots that were strong enough to repel cavalry charges and cannon fire, thus the government needed streets large enough to make such barricades much harder to build.

As Nazi Germany forces discovered in 1944, however, it was still not enough to keep angry Parisians under control, even with tanks.

This is also the reason why, unlike in any other city here, the Parisian police is not under the control of the mayor but of a police prefect directly named by the President, since the city is a revolutionary hotbed and has been so for centuries.
So... yeah, silly rumours are silly. That kind of stuff would leak out in hours and would cause the end of the government, once again. Keep in mind that, here, we don't really care about having been ruled by the same text for centuries: if a political system fails hard enough, we go down in the streets and boot it out of power to replace it with another.

[Traveller]

Rufus, there is no great big scary 'conspiracy theory'. Like I said, it is anecdotal and cannot be verified. But I would not be surprised if those deaths were true. Anyway, you've been trolling this thread for the past couple of days and I really could care less what you think.

Australia already running out of PPE and test kits.Stocks of coronavirus test kits have run out in parts of Australia -- and supplies elsewhere are running low, the government's chief medical officer has warned.

Dr. Brendan Murphy addressed fellow healthcare professionals in an open letter, posted to the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners' website.

"Unfortunately, the extreme pressure on our personal protective equipment (PPE) stocks continues, and the situation regarding pathology test kits, reagents and swabs is deteriorating rapidly, with kits no longer being available in some regions of the country," he wrote.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-14-20-intl-hnk/index.html

[Sean C]

But wouldnt one prefer to get loo paper clean and not already full of sh!t?


:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Scientists are hopeful they are on the verge of developing a vaccine for the covid-19 strain of coronavirus.

Researchers at Imperial College London say they have already successful tested the treatment on mice and may be able to start human trials by June.

However it would probably be a year before it was available for patients, the research team, led by Mucosal Infection and Immunity head Dr Robin Shattock, said.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/coronavirus-vaccine-hopes-raised-after-scientists-say-they-have-made-successful-tests-on-mice/ar-BB11aGLS?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Reece]

A year!! :o Imagine how bad things will be by then! :doh:

[Rufus Shinra]

A year!! :o Imagine how bad things will be by then! :doh:
Pro-tip: a vaccine designed in a year would break many records of development speed. We're not in a bad movie or series, there's no vaccine around the corner for this.

[Traveller]

A year!! :o Imagine how bad things will be by then! :doh:The first virus wave should be over within a year, with perhaps 4-5 billion people total having been infected by then.

Let's just hope it doesn't start mutating into hundreds of different strains like the common cold virus does each year. If it does, there will be no effective vaccine. :03:

Czech government orders all restaurants and pubs, plus most shops, closed.The country -- which has the world's highest per capita beer consumption -- has shut pubs and restaurants for 10 days starting Saturday morning.

It has also ordered most shops -- except food supermarkets, pharmacies, gas station and other stores selling vital items -- to close.https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-14-20-intl-hnk/index.html

[STEED]

Panic buying madness continual's at my local supermarket as they now sell out of bake beans and soup, at this rate all tins will be sold out out and frozen food under a month at this rate!

Looked around at a number of supermarkets and local small shops can I find one pack of toilet paper around here? Let me put this way I have better odds on playing Gin Rummy with mutated zebras from the future.

Stiff upper lip all hands to the pump look after one another here in the UK! NO NO NO NO NO...PANIC WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE BUY EVERYTHING YOU CAN! I had it up to here with this bloody virus and the fear its generating!

Read all about the latest news on the virus its all printed on my bum cheeks.

[Jimbuna]

A year!! :o Imagine how bad things will be by then! :doh:

I consider it a step in the right direction. Granted, a small step but anything positive is always welcome.

[Rufus Shinra]

Just went for a grocery run to buy orange juice and cookies. The store was well stocked on everything, no panic runs visible here. Remind yourself and the people around you that resilience and civic-mindedness is key to achieve victory here while keeping casualties low.

Your grandparents fought the home front for us before we were born, fight the home front for them now.

In a sillier but still relevant note:

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd050101s.gifhttp://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd042701s.gif

Support your local doctors and medical students if you can. Help them take care of the family while they're at work, keep their life as simple as it can be. In short, be responsible, like our forefathers were before us. Remind people who are hoarding and selling protective alcoholic gel and the like at a premium that they are killing people who are needing it. Go to local restaurants and take food back home to support the economy and these business who are going to suffer through this time.

In short, think about what you can do for others that you'd wish they would do for you.

[Traveller]

Steed, time is quickly running out for the UK (and elsewhere) before panic and large-scale lockdowns begin, as we have seen in China, Italy, and Spain. Please finish your preps ASAP! :yep:

[Rufus Shinra]

See, the kind of thing posted just above would have rightfully earned its author some very dark looks (at the very least) back in 1942 in UK or the US. And after the end of the war, people would have remembered these words, this behaviour, knowing for sure who they can trust and who they cannot (here, black marketers faced harsh justice in 1945).

Don't be the one who hurts their neighbourhood through panic and defeatism. Ask yourself what Mr. Rogers would do in your position (either Mr. Rogers works).

[Rufus Shinra]

Safety notice: https://twitter.com/olivierveran/status/1238776545398923264 (in French)

The healthcare minister just tweeted that ibuprofen, cortisone and similar anti-inflammation drugs are currently linked to worsened cases of Covid-19 infections, as in younger patients without other issues who took ibuprofen to deal with their fever (which was later found out to be Covid-caused) got themselves in a pretty bad state instead of most people of their age and medical precedents.

[Skybird]

Western governments sacrifice their citizens to appease Bejing.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fcorona_ von_taiwan_lernen

[Traveller]

Safety notice: https://twitter.com/olivierveran/status/1238776545398923264 (in French)

The healthcare minister just tweeted that ibuprofen, cortisone and similar anti-inflammation drugs are currently linked to worsened cases of Covid-19 infections, as in younger patients without other issues who took ibuprofen to deal with their fever (which was later found out to be Covid-caused) got themselves in a pretty bad state instead of most people of their age and medical precedents.

Already debunked. Ibuprofen is still safe to take for a fever if infected. Please don't spread dangerous fake news.
The University Hospital Vienna reacted on Saturday at midday with a clear denial : "We would like to expressly point out that this is fake news that has no connection whatsoever with the MedUni Vienna !"https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/&usg=ALkJrhiWeTYZLgzieNMSoAVH1ZG3Wbdn4g

https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/

[Onkel Neal]

Steed, time is quickly running out for the UK (and elsewhere) before panic and large-scale lockdowns begin, as we have seen in China, Italy, and Spain. Please finish your preps ASAP! :yep:

Well, it's not preps if you wait till the last minute. Steed, have you asked anyone in the store when they are scheduled for their next delivery? Here is is 2 or 3 times a day.

[Traveller]

Well, it's not preps if you wait till the last minute.OK. Let me rephrase that: Please finish your panic buying ASAP! :D

[Rufus Shinra]

Already debunked. Ibuprofen is still safe to take for a fever if infected. Please don't spread dangerous fake news.
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/&usg=ALkJrhiWeTYZLgzieNMSoAVH1ZG3Wbdn4g

https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/
Lolwat. This is related to cases in France, and the recommendations against Ibuprofen in this case have been there since January, requiring a prescription now, precisely because it's immunosuppressive. And I quite trust our minister, given his background: after all, here, we don't throw cabinet position through nepotism.

[Mr Quatro]

Already debunked. Ibuprofen is still safe to take for a fever if infected. Please don't spread dangerous fake news.
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/&usg=ALkJrhiWeTYZLgzieNMSoAVH1ZG3Wbdn4g

https://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/fake-news-zu-ibuprofen-und-covid-19/

Yeah Rufus cool it :D The fake news was even spreading the rumor that cocaine works on Covid-19, but of course that was false.

More fake news will be on the way on what works especially to make money with the rich paying premium prices for anything that is proven , but not yet released.

That one video posted by Traveller from John Hopkins University sure seems true that 50,000 people already have Covid-19 in the USA.
I can almost believe that will happen at least when the testing finally gets going.

I just found out that when I went to the VA 10 days ago and they said they couldn't test me that they had only tested 70 people so far and that was up to yesterday.

Stop thinking you don't need to stock up for a month or so at least. What else are you going to spend the money on?

Who will be the first subsim member to get Covid-19? We should support each other, uh? But come on man you go to verify it with a scan or an image or a video.

You know someone on here will get it in the next 12 months at least :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Ten more people in the UK have died after testing positive for coronavirus, bringing the total number of deaths in the UK to 21.

The UK's chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty, said all of the latest to die were patients in "at-risk" groups.

All patients NHS England gave details of had underlying health conditions and were over the age of 60.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51889957

[Rufus Shinra]

rofl at the prepper nonsense, and the idea that our gov' was spreading the cocaine lie thingie when it was actually debunking it. But, heh, don't let me stop you from depriving other people from critical supplies, I hope you'll sleep soundly at night.

[Skybird]

rofl at the prepper nonsense, and the idea that our gov' was spreading the cocaine lie thingie when it was actually debunking it. But, heh, don't let me stop you from depriving other people from critical supplies, I hope you'll sleep soundly at night.
What a headless drivel.

If ever you get into need for help, dont ask me, for I would happily reject it to you. I would feel abused and wasted if I would help you out.

[Rufus Shinra]

What a headless drivel.

If ever you get into need for help, dont ask me, for I would happily reject it to you. I would feel abused and wasted if I would help you out.
I wish I'd be surprised. I am not, but the good thing is that most of society is much better than you are. :-) It's wonderful how harsh time reveal quickly who people really are, and I'm sure comrade Covid is proud of your contribution to his work.

You should hope doctors, police officers and paramedics are better people than you.

[Onkel Neal]

rofl at the prepper nonsense, and the idea that our gov' was spreading the cocaine lie thingie when it was actually debunking it. But, heh, don't let me stop you from depriving other people from critical supplies, I hope you'll sleep soundly at night.

First, allow me to correct your mistake. Preppers had all the supplies they needed ready and on hand in January. The shortage of TP is not caused by preppers, it is caused by non-preppers, who always laugh at preppers, wait until the last minute to get the stuff they need for a quarantine, then PANIC, then they blame the preppers. See how that works?


Us preppers sleep just fine.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/2c/4a462ce05c1e988e92d570d76b1ca780.jpg

[Buddahaid]

First, allow me to correct your mistake. Preppers had all the supplies they needed ready and on hand in January. The shortage of TP is not caused by preppers, it is caused by non-preppers, who always laugh at preppers, wait until the last minute to get the stuff they need for a quarantine, then PANIC, then they blame the preppers. See how that works?


Us preppers sleep just fine.


Neal's so prepped he even has himself packed in a container ready to ship! :shucks:

[Rufus Shinra]

First, allow me to correct your mistake. Preppers had all the supplies they needed ready and on hand in January. The shortage of TP is not caused by preppers, it is caused by non-preppers, who always laugh at preppers, wait until the last minute to get the stuff they need for a quarantine, then PANIC, then they blame the preppers. See how that works?


Us preppers sleep just fine.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/2c/4a462ce05c1e988e92d570d76b1ca780.jpg
Meh, and then there are the people who live in a sensible society and are pretty much aware than panic buying and hoarding is simultaneously useless and counter-productive. Cultural differences again, I suppose, but here, I could easily go to a dozen grocery stores within a 10 minutes walking distance and see them fully stocked and without crowds thinking they need MOAR supplies.

It just disappoints me to hear about such behaviour, to see how some people are so quick at throwing away all links of society and civilization just because they are afraid. We had such people here, seventy-five years ago, who decided that "me, I and myself" were above every other consideration. We called them "collaborateurs" and "black marketeers", who prided themselves into profiteering from a catastrophe without consideration of the consequences for other people.

You'll have to understand that I cannot feel much respect for these individuals, in comparison to those who worked with others to preserve some modicum of humanity and civilization, who helped each other not for personal interest, but because that was the right thing to do. Yes, it must be cultural differences.


Though I suppose sailors wouldn't appreciate people who think about their life first before the ship and the crew.

[Buddahaid]

It's not the same thing as the current panic buying in some places. In California you are encouraged to have a stockpile of essentials in case of earthquake, or fire now perhaps as well, and in other areas what's needed to survive other natural disasters as in bug out bags.

And I wouldn't be surprised by the herd mentality. It shows itself in many other small ways such as Cabbage Patch Kids Christmas buying, a store with a mistakenly published low price TV, anything really as word gets out.

And then there are those with more grace and nobility. We are made of all types.

[Onkel Neal]

Meh, and then there are the people who live in a sensible society and are pretty much aware than panic buying and hoarding is simultaneously useless and counter-productive. Cultural differences again, I suppose, but here, I could easily go to a dozen grocery stores within a 10 minutes walking distance and see them fully stocked and without crowds thinking they need MOAR supplies.

It just disappoints me to hear about such behaviour, to see how some people are so quick at throwing away all links of society and civilization just because they are afraid. We had such people here, seventy-five years ago, who decided that "me, I and myself" were above every other consideration. We called them "collaborateurs" and "black marketeers", who prided themselves into profiteering from a catastrophe without consideration of the consequences for other people.

You'll have to understand that I cannot feel much respect for these individuals, in comparison to those who worked with others to preserve some modicum of humanity and civilization, who helped each other not for personal interest, but because that was the right thing to do. Yes, it must be cultural differences.


Though I suppose sailors wouldn't appreciate people who think about their life first before the ship and the crew.

Yeah, you should spend more time taking your TP supply around your neighborhood and sharing it and less time trying to shame people who did not wait till the last minute to be responsible for themselves. Please post back and let us know how many people you shared your supplies with, sir.

[Rufus Shinra]

It's not the same thing as the current panic buying in some places. In California you are encouraged to have a stockpile of essentials in case of earthquake, or fire now perhaps as well, and in other areas what's needed to survive other natural disasters as in bug out bags.

And I wouldn't be surprised by the herd mentality. It shows itself in many other small ways such as Cabbage Patch Kids Christmas buying, a store with a mistakenly published low price TV, anything really as word gets out.

And then there are those with more grace and nobility. We are made of all types.
Preparing beforehand for specific disasters such as a hurricane or an earthquake, I can understand, it makes sense. Hoarding supplies when everyone will need them at the start of an emergency and boasting about keeping it all for oneself? That's definitely not something I'd have expected on a forum with a strong naval culture, since it goes against all the naval traditions of the past few millenia.

It does go to show how much fear can change an individual.


Good thing I know from experience that many people in the US aren't so afraid of helping others and be part of society. Back when I was in Houston when Harvey hit, the neighbourhood wasn't that uncivic and hoarding.

[Traveller]

First, allow me to correct your mistake. Preppers had all the supplies they needed ready and on hand in January. The shortage of TP is not caused by preppers, it is caused by non-preppers, who always laugh at preppers, wait until the last minute to get the stuff they need for a quarantine, then PANIC, then they blame the preppers. See how that works?


Us preppers sleep just fine.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/46/2c/4a462ce05c1e988e92d570d76b1ca780.jpg

Well-said, Neil. I was already prepping in January when I saw what was happening with the massive lockdowns and make-shift hospital building in China. I knew right away how serious it was. I knew it was coming here sooner or later.

I got lots of flak from my wife, but her attitude began to change when she saw that things were becoming more and more serious. Now she's thankful I started prepping when I did. But the funny thing is that our two cats are probably better prepared than we are, with enough extra food, treats, and litter to last at least a year. :)

[Onkel Neal]

Preparing beforehand for specific disasters such as a hurricane or an earthquake, I can understand, it makes sense. Hoarding supplies when everyone will need them at the start of an emergency and boasting about keeping it all for oneself? That's definitely not something I'd have expected on a forum with a strong naval culture, since it goes against all the naval traditions of the past few millenia.

It does go to show how much fear can change an individual.


Good thing I know from experience that many people in the US aren't so afraid of helping others and be part of society. Back when I was in Houston when Harvey hit, the neighbourhood wasn't that uncivic and hoarding.


Who's afraid? Not me :D

[Skybird]

I wish I'd be surprised. I am not, but the good thing is that most of society is much better than you are. :-) It's wonderful how harsh time reveal quickly who people really are.
And more from the traditional scoialst songbook of agitation and propaganda.


Most of society is more unprepared and incapable in options, than people like me are. And society is that by decision. Thats what makes it stupidity. I owe it nothingm, and I have no desire to help it. It coudl have done like I did, and it said no, and I will not punish myself to compensate it for its mistake.



But feel free to continue expecting always the other to help you out. Just expect others to bail you out and call this egoism of yours "solidarity" that those who outperformed you "owe" to you.



Its always the same with guys like you. All self-reliance gets called egoism, all plundering of the better individual gets called altruism, and instead of options for acting, instead of having prepared to maximise your degrees of freedom, you agitated and propagated and babbled slogans and prepared nothing and so are helpless and impotent if emergency arise and you raise your hands and demand "now save me!"Why would I want that...?



Help thyself. By preparing yousrelf before the next storm finds you. You help society well already by doing your share to be as little a burden to it as you can. If you cannot swim and always agitated that it is evil to leanr swimming early, then you cannot save somebody from drowning. You only always demand that others should jump into the water and get cold and wet and risk their lives and do the work for you.



I am solidaric with some. Under no circumstances, never, I am solidaric with just anybody, everybody. Because some deserve my solidarity, and they get it, and some, maybe even most, do not. And I choose them by my own criteria, not by the criteria of socialist parasites who are impotent and helpless by their own choice and responsibility. . He who wants me to help him, must show that he did his part in getting his challenge done. That he did not actively deny every chance to get by himself over whatever it is . And if then fate strikes him and knocks him down, I may decide to help him out or not. But just having done nothing to take care for himself, just counting on others to save him, just demanding me to bail him out if need be: not with me.



Try to pull your waggon yourself, according to you power and capabilities. If we do not see you at least trying hard, why should anyone of us want to pull the waggon for you? Do you expect us to be stupid?

[Skybird]

Who's afraid? Not me :D
One prepares not due to being afraid. One prepares so that one must not be afraid.


Neal understands that, I am sure. Many others do not.

[Rufus Shinra]

Who's afraid? Not me :D
Le Shrug.
And more from the traditional scoialst songbook of agitation and propaganda.


Most of society is more unprepared and incapable in options, than people like me are. And society is that by decision. Thats what makes it stupidity. I owe it nothingm, and I have no desire to help it. It coudl have done like I did, and it said no, and I will not punish myself to compensate it for its mistake.



But feel free to continue expecting always the other to help you out. Just expect others to bail you out and call this egoism of yours "solidarity" that those who outperformed you "owe" to you.



Its always the same with guys like you. All self-reliance gets called egoism, all plundering of the better individual gets called altruism, and instead of options for acting, instead of having prepared to maximise your degrees of freedom, you agitated and propagated and babbled slogans and prepared nothing and so are helpless and impotent if emergency arise and you raise your hands and demand "now save me!"Why would I want that...?



Help thyself. By preparing yousrelf before the next storm finds you. You help society well already by doing your share to be as little a burden to it as you can. If you cannot swim and always agitated that it is evil to leanr swimming early, then you cannot save somebody from drowning. You only always demand that others should jump into the water and get cold and wet and risk their lives and do the work for you.



I am solidaric with some. Under no circumstances, never, I am solidaric with just anybody, everybody. Because some deserve my solidarity, and they get it, and some, maybe even most, do not. And I choose them by my own criteria, not by the criteria of socialist parasites who are impotent and helpless by their own choice and responsibility. . He who wants me to help him, must show that he did his part in getting his challenge done. That he did not actively deny every chance to get by himself over whatever it is . And if then fate strikes him and knocks him down, I may decide to help him out or not. But just having done nothing to take care for himself, just counting on others to save him, just demanding me to bail him out if need be: not with me.



Try to pull your waggon yourself, according to you power and capabilities. If we do not see you at least trying hard, why should anyone of us want to pull the waggon for you? Do you expect us to be stupid?Ah, yes, I know that mindset. The Ayn Rand one, who claims to be strong and to not need to share anything, until it goes bad for her and she then decides she deserves public assistance. Maybe you'll grow up one day.

[Buddahaid]

...Hoarding supplies when everyone will need them at the start of an emergency and boasting about keeping it all for oneself...


I suppose that depends on where one draws the line between prepping and hoarding and the timing. Then buying up stuff and then reselling it to make money off of misery is one of the worst behaviors and I haven't seen any of that here.

[Traveller]

Without trying to get too political, I will say that it sounds to me like someone drank a little bit too much of the idealistic socialist/communist kool-aid.

As we have seen time after time, expecting the government to save us in times of emergency is a grave mistake.

And believe it or not, I am prepped well enough to help my wife's parents, and maybe even a few neighbors if necessary. So no, not all preppers are greedy, selfish, hoarding opportunists.

[Mr Quatro]

Just went to Walmart (online) to see if I could reorder some of my favorite supplies and they were all all out of stock.

Beans, chilli, mac and cheese, etc

So I ordered some cold cereal- and one Advil cold med 20 pills per pack

The cereal will be here Wednesday, but the Advil will take till Monday March 23rd :o

[Rufus Shinra]

Without trying to get too political, I will say that it sounds to me like someone drank a little bit too much of the idealist socialist/communist kool-aid. Expecting the government to save you in times of emergency is a grave mistake.
That's true if you're living in a country where cabinets are named through nepotism and where the leadership is known for its incompetence. Thankfully, I do not live in such a country, so our decision criteria are very different.

But then, according to socialist kool-aid, single payer healthcare is cheaper AND more effective than a private system and, oh, well, it actually is. Katrina is not our Modus Operandi when it comes to dealing with disasters, nor throwing toilet paper at homeless people in Puerto Rico, nor calling Covid-19 a simple flu. Must be cultural differences, I guess. But as long as you're satisfied with such a system, who am I to judge? ;-)

[Traveller]

but the Advil will take till Monday March 23rd :oSeriously? Damn. I knew there would eventually be over the counter cold and flu medicine shortages in the US once panic buying began, but I didn't expect it to be this soon. :o

[Rufus Shinra]

Oopsie. Want me to send some over the Pond? I'm in front of a pharmacy with full stocks.

[Traveller]

Oopsie. Want me to send some over the Pond? I'm in front of a pharmacy with full stocks.

Apart from your continuous trolling, you obviously have nothing useful to contribute here, so you are now on my very short ignore list. Congratulations. :shifty:

[Rufus Shinra]

Apart from your continuous trolling, you obviously have nothing useful to contribute here, so you are now on my very short ignore list. Congratulations. :shifty:
Huh, I guess having available medicine and honestly offering to share is trolling now. Real trolling was when I was driving in Houston with my car blaring the Soviet anthem as sung in Red October, with the windows down so that people around could enjoy music fit for a Red State.

[Skybird]

Apart from your continuous trolling, you obviously have nothing useful to contribute here, so you are now on my very short ignore list. Congratulations. :shifty:
+ 1

[mapuc]

I can get out my mind, that there a more than meets the eye or what we have been told.

The last few days dramatically steps taken by Denmark, Sweden and some other countries tells me there's something fishy about this virus.

Then I recalled a post where someone had put up a link to a story where the was pictures of hundred if not thousand of body bags In Wuhan China

So what if this Corona virus is way more contagious and way more deadly than the politicians will admit..... ? This to prevent mass hysteria.

And the collapse of the society.

I truly hope I'm wrong on this

Markus

[Rufus Shinra]

I can get out my mind, that there a more than meets the eye or what we have been told.

The last few days dramatically steps taken by Denmark, Sweden and some other countries tells me there's something fishy about this virus.

Then I recalled a post where someone had put up a link to a story where the was pictures of hundred if not thousand of body bags In Wuhan China

So what if this Corona virus is way more contagious and way more deadly than the politicians will admit..... ? This to prevent mass hysteria.

And the collapse of the society.

I truly hope I'm wrong on this

Markus
Such a thing is as likely to be hidden in Europe as the Truthers and Flat Earthers being right. It's beyond silly, to stay polite. The stealthy logistics required for this in democratic countries are beyond imagination, that's fantasy in the range of Breitbart or Project Veritas.

[mapuc]

Such a thing is as likely to be hidden in Europe as the Truthers and Flat Earthers being right. It's beyond silly, to stay polite. The stealthy logistics required for this in democratic countries are beyond imagination, that's fantasy in the range of Breitbart or Project Veritas.

In other words my brain had concluded things totally wrong

Well it's only here in this thread I have put this thought into writing and here is where it will be and forgotten.

Markus

[Rufus Shinra]

In other words my brain had concluded things totally wrong

Well it's only here in this thread I have put this thought into writing and here is where it will be and forgotten.

Markus
Don't worry, it's easy to get caught in a bad reasoning, but look a bit around you and try to imagine how insanely complex it would be to hide so many deaths in such densely-populated areas as European countries, in which there is a strong tradition of acting against authorities when needed. For such a theory to work, you'd need everyone on almost every level of administration to be in with it and to keep their lies straight with their close ones, for all newspapers and TV channels to be complicit or brain-dead, etc. Hell, even the Holocaust couldn't remain really secret, the surprise being the sheer scale of it when it came to light. And back then, Denmark ended up famous for how it worked against the authorities of the time (we still learn in school here about your country's actions back then).

Conspiracy theories like this require a level of total involvement and efficiency that is absolutely incompatible with pretty much any experience we have with administrations, even the efficient ones in Europe.

Now that we have a pretty good idea of the virus' effects here, that debunks quite clearly all the conspiracy theories spouted by 'youtube investigators' on the Chinese situation. The only way they got some serious following beyond the usual conspiracy nuts was the Chinese Derangement Syndrome that was fed with these videos. Now, the scary videos are just playing on your justified fear of an unknown situation.

So remember Roosevelt: 'Who is the enemy? Fear itself.'

Don't fall to that enemy like so many do, and be just as awesome as Danes were back in the War.

[STEED]

Steed, have you asked anyone in the store when they are scheduled for their next delivery? Here is is 2 or 3 times a day.They are clueless that is too say the average joe worker. You can see something is up on the faces of the supervisors, they know something on what is going on but will not tell.

[Catfish]

[...] Preppers had all the supplies they needed ready and on hand in January. The shortage of TP is not caused by preppers, it is caused by non-preppers, who always laugh at preppers, wait until the last minute to get the stuff they need for a quarantine, then PANIC, then they blame the preppers. See how that works?
Excactly. I would call them unprepared ones hoarders. They are those who are responsible for any supply shortfall now. If anyone sticked to normal buying behaviour there would be no probem.

Stores are just not prepared for the run on certain products, but i may say that our local store owners, selling more than ever, are not discontent with the situation. :03:
And monday morning the shelves will be magically filled again.

[Mr Quatro]

https://scontent.fbis1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89714856_2824288810991193_580356631238279168_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlmYSoZl7bYpyTAgxIXMZcGESkPOGp6fuRHwR6jypq nxRTi6FyXIX_K0_lf__woOP0&_nc_ht=scontent.fbis1-1.fna&oh=bc6d9905adecc03753355f3e787be0bc&oe=5E917676

[STEED]

Excactly. I would call them unprepared ones hoarders. They are those who are responsible for any supply shortfall now. If anyone sticked to normal buying behaviour there would be no probem.

Well said catfish, you have won a free trip to my local supermarket and feel free to let these selfish swines know their actions are stupid and feeding the fear machine. :up:

[Rufus Shinra]

Well said catfish, you have won a free trip to my local supermarket and feel free to let these selfish swines know their actions are stupid and feeding the fear machine. :up:
I'd love to do that, but all the grocery stores I walked by on my way to the restaurants (three in this street) are fully-stocked. Want me to take pictures on my way back?

Fear and panic are not inevitable.

[Catfish]

How it all starts: Panic buys – herd mentality:

New risks like Corona make people insecure.
Instead relying on facts, they observe the behaviour of others.
Because they think that other people know more than themselves.
Which leads to irrational behaviour, like panic buying.
The media are fueling this heard behaviour.
Voilà, unnecessary panic.

But here's a business idea..

https://i.imgur.com/jY70UYkl.jpg

[Rufus Shinra]

How it all starts: Panic buys – herd mentality:

New risks like Corona make people insecure.
Instead relying on facts, they observe the behaviour of others.
Because they think that other people know more than themselves.
Which leads to irrational behaviour, like panic buying.
The media are fueling this heard behaviour.
Voilà, unnecessary panic.

But here's a business idea..

https://i.imgur.com/jY70UYkl.jpg
That's when good leadership and non-partisanship can help a lot, as well as responsible media. One of the newspapers I follow keeps an entire section about debunking rumours with clear sources and analysis, while most of the political parties, even the nationalist and the communist ones, are acting rationally over this.

It also helps, I guess, that it would be particularly shameful to our elders if we acted like lemmings when they faced much harsher restrictions and kept going. I see it happening in England:

1990: 'What did you do during the rationing, grandpa?' 'I volunteered for the civil defence and met your grandmother.'

2050: 'What did you do during the epidemic, old man?' 'I got enough toilet paper to not buy anymore until the 2040s.'

Not exactly the Finest Hour, now, is it?

[mapuc]

In this time of crisis the true nature of some comes forth.

A big majority is of good nature, while the rest is of bad nature.

Markus

[Skybird]

How it all starts: Panic buys – herd mentality:

New risks like Corona make people insecure.
Instead relying on facts, they observe the behaviour of others.
Because they think that other people know more than themselves.
Which leads to irrational behaviour, like panic buying.
The media are fueling this heard behaviour.
Voilà, unnecessary panic.

Sigh.


Pay attention to this instead, from 00:11:20 or 00:12:00 to around 00:29:00



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogf6Hru2trE



In principle he explains psychological mechanisms that are known since longer, he just is not as wordview-biased as you are with your Stammtisch-explanation right out of the PC-box.



I again remind of that the terminology of "hamstern" (hoarding), the Germn term, comes from the propaganda textbook of the Nazis who by that wanted to publicly defame people of whom they claimed that by their intention to prepare independently from the regime's propanda of that all is well and under control, expressed an attitude of lackign trust in and disloyalty to the regime. Yopu do not need to hoard indeed if you think all is well and the regime wills olve issues. Total dependency and helplessness is thwe result. And of course the lacking ability to help yourself, if need ever arises.



Wanting to get prepared is natural, reasonable, and a good idea. Even many animals prepare for tougher times that come in the future. The modenr eocnomy chains are hyper-.sensible to diusroutions: in resource deliveries for production, expertise of personnel, increasingly IT and communicaiton networks, intercontinental communicaiton networks and also stocklamnrkets anbd theiur effect on real economic contexts. It is very, very easy to disrupt these complex, sensible networks. And then logistics have a very big problem, and production comes into troubled waters.



The only -the ONLY - hilarious factor in the events at supermarkets in recent day,s is the timing of people. They launch for preparation while the desaster is already upon them. They have had years of time to instead get their preparations ahead in time, relaxed, piece by piece, over a logner time. Thats how I did it: over years, growing the effort with my growing financial abilities. You do such a projeciton according to what yiou can afford, right? Its the timing that can be laughed about in present events - not that people feel the need for wanting to get some reserves. You do not expect to be involved in a car accident just because you fantasy the seat belts when you start driving in a car. Ypou just activate an additonal safety - because the future is unpredictable and thus: uncertain.



And always keep one thing on mind. Givenrments maybe tell you their is sufficient suplies and that ther eis nki hoarding, because they want to prevent hoarding since reserves are limited. For exmapel they kept on tellign people that all kind of face masks, short in supply everyhwere, do not provide any proteciton w hile by now we know that even the weakest facemask by now at leats priovied a little bit of protection, with respiratory masks of FFP3 stanbdard providing the best. Short time after they kept on preaching that to the oublic her ein germany - stocks in masks got confiscated and exports to outside Germany got stopped.



Seeing what people are buying, leaves me scrathcign my head ssometimes, however, so timing is not the only funny thing there, but also what goods people consider to be good reserves. But that does not excuse to ridicule the intention itself to have reserves.

[Rufus Shinra]

In this time of crisis the true nature of some comes forth.

A big majority is of good nature, while the rest is of bad nature.

Markus
Indeed. We'll face it as a society, not as individuals.

In other news, all non-essential shops will close now in France, leaving only food, fuel, banks, drugstores, etc., open. Considering how full the food stores were yesterday and today and how all parties, unions and the like are working together on this while the media are remaining calm, I believe people will behave normally rather than becoming panicking lemmings.

Spain has started two weeks of home isolation, TLDR you can't leave your home except to buy food or go to work if remote working is impossible.

Good luck and make it a moment of pride for future Danes.

[u crank]

Well it has come to our little island. A woman in her 50's who had just returned from a cruise has tested positive.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-chief-public-health-officer-latest-covid-19-1.5498094

[Catfish]

^ but... has it three layers :hmmm:
.. the picture is not too good ... you won't fool the children of the resolution...

[Onkel Neal]

Excactly. I would call them unprepared ones hoarders. They are those who are responsible for any supply shortfall now. If anyone sticked to normal buying behaviour there would be no probem.

Stores are just not prepared for the run on certain products, but i may say that our local store owners, selling more than ever, are not discontent with the situation. :03:
And monday morning the shelves will be magically filled again.

Yep. pretty sure that will be the case. And if you can't find hand sanitize right now, there are excellent substitutes. (https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/gin/classic-club-gin/p/172364175-1?glia=true&s=303&pid=cpc:Shopping+US+NEWJ+ENG+SPART:::google:&gclid=CjwKCAjwgbLzBRBsEiwAXVIygB9TOfX_vDAdO3lnAQdd GCekI1Q-8IBDFReaPfrlJoDCbinRw38kARoClP0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)


Price $11.99 - 1.75L
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIYe9Lxft3CMiYi9o5_CJhdKZP5mu Omx8RBAeVcGJw49ENxPMBSQzxuzTgQaxadgYmYSG4JYpwYk5Ec uNj6YBn0PvI6sHiMOsULcNcMdYI&usqp=CAE


Preppers are prepared. :haha:



@ BUDDABBY; YOU'RE DEAD-ON ABOUT NEAL'S CONTAINER ABODE....:arrgh!:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=815&pictureid=10883:O:



Lol, you know me well, my friend.

[Skybird]

Yep. pretty sure that will be the case. And if you can't find hand sanitize right now, there are excellent substitutes. (https://www.fruugo.us/top-shelf-spirits-dry-gin/p-1519169-3655822?language=en&ac=google&gclid=CjwKCAjwgbLzBRBsEiwAXVIygCZSlnGTcyb_ntAF0Ieo plIQ5qaoQQaIbTNXxb0Iw5KMeL5s-CQ0KxoCREwQAvD_BwE)


Price $4.95 - 2.25L
https://img.fruugo.com/product/5/11/7621115_max.jpg


Preppers are prepared. :haha:




Sorry, no. For alcohol killing this type of Virus, it needs a concentration of 60% (and 66%) in case of isopropyl alcohol (or ethanole). Minimum. 40, 45, 50 vol% are not enough. The virus just consumes your Schnaps and says Thanks.

Ginger, onion and garlic also do not work, while I am at it. :D Neither do hot sauces.


Late last week I asked in three pharmacies, just for curiosity, for ethanole or isopropyle alcohol, since the WHO reminded of their old recipe to create your own hand desinfectant from alcohol, glycerine, and water. It was out in all three.


Interestingly, until yesterday you could still get surface cleaner with desinfectant and virus-killing formula in almost every supermarket an drugstore over here, and they still get replenished on the shelves. People seem to overlook something there. And yes, surface clenaers make a lot of sense: housedoor grips, door grips, light switches, mouse, TV pilot,. keyboard, pins on zippers of your clothing, grips of your bags and business suitcases, surfces of smartphones and tablets. Makes an awsoime lot fo senbse to clean these daily in these times. The virus lives for three days on plastic anbd steel surfaces. THREE DAYS.

[Onkel Neal]

You taking the fun out everything! :03:

I don't know jack about booze, is there something stronger?

[Skybird]

You taking the fun out everything! :03:
Sure. I'm German. :D

I don't know jack about booze, is there something stronger? Rum.

More precisely, what in German is called "Stroh Rum" (is that called "navy strength rum" in English, maybe?). It has 40 and 60%. I think there is even a variant with 80%. Tastes awful, and makes a strogn headache, I do not recommend it and I do not like it. Only as an arome in chocolade and "Rumkugeln". German bakers make them, putting all dough rests of the day together, mixing them with sugar, cacao, rum, some oil, water, arome and chocolade, and selling them as a cake-kind of thing. I love them. They are a calorie nightmare, however.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fHrZem6FsEqjcMJSSDwcVrsjQIUUK2P3h760DnUZ4ci05wnYOE 7qy224Qq5wFSsNzmKSluzW6x8kntZdTGGcapvpKL3vjLEy9YFI 4ckuhwnFQQ

When do I use Rum?

Make a strong coffee. Put a slider ( athin ruler of metal?) onto the cup, load it with a few sugar cubes. Spill Rum over it, until the cubes thoroughly soaks with rum, then light a match and it will set the rum ablaze. Its flambé, so to speak. This works only with Rum that has at least 60%, else it does not burn. Burn until he sugar is molten. When the fire is gone, whipped cream on top of it, ready. Its good, really! Used a lot In Friesland and the Hanseatic area over here. At least in the past.

The Spanish have a variant of this, using Espresso, I think. Always wanted to try it, always forgot. And I prefer Irish coffee anyway (coffeee, Irish whiskey, whipped cream, sugar).

[Catfish]

@Skybird i do not see anything of what you wrote to do with what i wrote.

"Prepping" is sure something to stay "secure", but if confronted with a real emergency you will realize your preparations were too few maybe. No one prepares to live "independent" for say three years.

But "prepping" is certainly alright, i did not criticize it. I do not hate preppers nor am i qualified to do so. In a way we are also prepared.
If the ugly brown stuff really its the fan what are you to do without electricity or water in the long run? You have a well with a hand-pump in the garden. You have a generator, fine. But no fuel/gas after some time. No reloading batteries.
Ok you have a canola-run heat and power plant and connections to your neighbouing farmers for getting oil, maybe you can hold out a little longer if they do not take you out first. But then: Piston rings. Bearings. Seals. All depends on an intact infrastructre in the long run.

Do you have a gun? Can you shoot game? How much ammo? Do you have potatoes or noodles (lmao) for more than six months? Enough salt and sugar? If you live in a city you are screwed anyway. From looting to burglary at your home, you will be shot in the rural areas if you flee and want to live there.
What i absolutely dislike is hoarding now, because it would be too late anyway, and will never get as bad as i described above.

Why should there be a shortage of just of all toilet paper? When you can survicve for two weeks with one package, why should you buy ten now, if you can buy one in two weeks? Is there nothing more important?
Buying ten packages of toilet paper will of course deplete any store of whatever they ordered, when everyone does it.
And so it is with all other goods. Normal support and maintenance will always be possible. But if all suddenly discover they have to hoard now and in a second.. forget it.

[Catfish]

[...] IMG]https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxESEhUSEhIVFRUVEBUVFxYVFxUQFhUVFRUXFhUWFR UYHSggGBolGxUVITEhJSsrLi4uGB8zODMtNzQtLisBCgoKDg0O FQ0PFSsZFR0tKysrLS0tLS0rKy0rKy0tNysrKy0tLS0tLS0tLS stKystLTc3Ky0rKy0tNy0tNzctK//AABEIALcBEwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMEBQYBBwj/xAA6EAACAQMCBAQDBwQCAQUBAAABAgMABBESIQUTMUEGIlFhFH GRByMyUoGx0UKhwfAV4TNTYnKSoiT/xAAWAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQL/xAAXEQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARFB/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3CiiigKKKKAooooCiiigKKKKAooooCii igKKzni7jVzb6BbxK2cmSSU6IowB5QzdiTWNP2nx21miT3Cz3j MyNyAH0MScY2CtpyKD1WivIuJ+LeIWyq3PeZdcbkmFLdFj3Z1e XBTVgYxkYq0t/tBupUL2to9whcKJiUhjVj+JPMRrwe496auPSaK8s4B45mPLha6 gkmnd5dcg+7gjAHkcrpxuGA69q2k/iXTdxWvw8hEur74FNCFRnzb5Geg70Rf0UUUBRRRQFFFFAUUUUB RRRQFFFFAUUVygKKKKDtFFFAUUUUBRRRQFFFFAUUUUBUHjnFor SB7ibVy4xliqmQgZxnSN8DO9Tq85n+LsryRXu5JrQwNK4nQS6N TEBFIGSO2KDWcI8VWdyhlhmDIH06umogAnSOpG+KpOP/wDJT3Gi0lRLYKrO5yHJyQyJtgjAzn1NQuGz2aSmwhtWDunMaWF 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Ok. Ich streiche die Segel :D

[Skybird]

@Skybird i do not see anything of what you wrote to do with what i wrote.

"Prepping" is sure something to stay "secure", but if confronted with a real emergency you will realize your preparations were too few maybe. No one prepares to live "independent" for say three years.

But "prepping" is certainly alright, i did not criticize it. I do not hate preppers nor am i qualified to do so. In a way we are also prepared.
If the ugly brown stuff really its the fan what are you to do without electricity or water in the long run? You have a well with a hand-pump in the garden. You have a generator, fine. But no fuel/gas after some time. No reloading batteries.
Ok you have a canola-run heat and power plant and connections to your neighbouing farmers for getting oil, maybe you can hold out a little longer if they do not take you out first. But then: Piston rings. Bearings. Seals. All depends on an intact infrastructre in the long run.

Do you have a gun? Can you shoot game? How much ammo? Do you have potatoes or noodles (lmao) for more than six months? Enough salt and sugar? If you live in a city you are screwed anyway. From looting to burglary at your home, you will be shot in the rural areas if you flee and want to live there.
What i absolutely dislike is hoarding now, because it would be too late anyway, and will never get as bad as i described above.

Why should there be a shortage of just of all toilet paper? When you can survicve for two weeks with one package, why should you buy ten now, if you can buy one in two weeks? Is there nothing more important?
Buying ten packages of toilet paper will of course deplete any store of whatever they ordered, when everyone does it.
And so it is with all other goods. Normal support and maintenance will always be possible. But if all suddenly discover they have to hoard now and in a second.. forget it.
In the prepper thread I said long etime ago already that prepping never is about staying put for all eternity. You can only prepare for a reasonable esimation, or a guess, regarding the time. Thats what the Bundesregierung does when they recommend every German to have reserves in his household for up to 10-14 days. An old recomemndaiton from the time sof the cold war, btw. I could afford, by money and space, to do some more, and also add some equipment they have not listed, and can stay autark for 6 weeks with cold start, 8-10 weeks or a bit more if I rationise from beginning on and consume a bit less per day, that includes a scenario with no water supply via pipes. If the water keeps coming, even a bit longer. But from some time on, life like that is no more - fun...

Its about bridging a timeout until relief efforts reach your region, or you get evacuated, or move out yourself, or things normalise.

From some time on, when the crisis is no crisis anymore but the new state of things and normality, prepping must turn into bugging out, and stationary strategy must turn into a strategy of mobility. we are talking about real desperate scenarios here, however, and honestyl said, I feel too old already as if I would want to seriously care for this. Of course, EVERY prepper'S preparations can get overwhelmed if thigns turn too bad and for too long. But that you may crash into another car at a speed where a seat belt would not save you anyway, does not mean you stop using it when you begin your drive. Your houisedoor, no matte rhow good it is, can be broken open with time, effort an dtools, this does not mean you no longer lock it. You may get killed tomorrow, and still sign an insurrance for something today, right?

Its about improving chances, shfiting them in your favour a bit, increasing the degrees of freedoms you cna enjoy, its about probabilities and maximising the number of your options. Its not about becoming the master of time and all universe, that is impossible. When crisis comes, you either make it through it this way, or you don't. In case of the first, your method worked, in case of the latter it apparently worked not. It is not about Walking-Dead-scnearios, that is nonsense. Personally, I do not wish to surrive a nculear war, not even if surviving it completely heathy myself.

And one day, we all leave the stage anyway. No drama. Just using the time that we have and not throwing it absolutely thanklessly away. A bit of fighting for your life is what you owe to yourself.

Just staying passively put and demanding the state to wipe my butt or expecting foreigners to care for my interests: these are the two worst plans one can have. But they are tempting and look comfortable to many, since they must not do anything themselves: preparing, for example. They put all the responsibility for their lives onto others. Parasites.

And you certainly have no options to help others (if you want that), if you are not even prepared to support yourself. Want to rescue a drowingin man? Make sure you can swim yourself before you jump into the water. Else try to be as less a burden to others, as you can. Dont stand in the way.

[mapuc]

Your discussion about being prepared made me remember some scene from documentary about preppers.

It's many years back so it's from my memory.

Some journalist or similar asked a preppers about his stuff:

- How or for how long can you stay alive with all this ?

Preppers:

- Maybe 3-4 years.

Journalist or similar then said:

- But in case of nuclear war, supply for 3-4 years will not be enough.

Something like that.

Back to our ordinary discussion.

Markus

[Skybird]

Some authorities still have not heard the shot. This was today, market place of my hometown.


https://i.postimg.cc/ncQTV5pR/Unbenannt.png (https://postimages.org/)
Westfälische Nachrichten.


At a time when all around cities lock down bars, clubs, sport events, assemblies of more than 1000 people and then 100 people, and so forth. This on a day when in the county I live in, over the afternoon and evening, every hour the official count of new identified cases climbed by 1-2 dozens. PER HOUR. And that is just the official number of the identified, the known cases. I multiply them by 15 (as a simple mean factor in the range of 10-20 factors).

No wonder that all around us nations shut down and close borders - and especially lock German travellers out, I cannot mistake them for that.

BTW, if the virus can live for three days on plastic and steel surfaces and 3 hours in the air's aerosols, it can also sit and survive as long on the surface of fruits and vetegables. And look at all those breathing people walking by the stands! Smear, smear, have no fear....


Many still have not heard the shot. Although the pistol was held close to their ears when pulling the trigger, and the magazine then was completely emptied.

[Traveller]

*deleted*

[Skybird]

If the German government lets this happen, it should get court-martialled, so to speak. Its in the vitla interest of germany and the world outside America to deny this move at any cost and even by use of force, and if needed the state should even take over this company.

Der Spiegel refers to Welt am Sonntag:


Meanwhile, there are apparently disputes between Germany and the United States over a Tübingen company that is working on a vaccine against the coronavirus. According to a report by "Welt am Sonntag", US President Donald Trump is trying to lure German scientists to America with high financial contributions or to secure the drug exclusively for his country, the newspaper citing government circles in Berlin.

The US President allegedly offers the company a large amount to secure its work exclusively. Trump is doing everything possible to get a vaccine for the United States. "But only for the United States," according to the newspaper, according to the federal government.

At the request of the German Press Agency, the Federal Ministry of Health referred to statements that a ministry spokesman had already made to "Welt am Sonntag". "The Federal Government is very interested in the fact that vaccines and active substances against the novel corona virus are also being developed in Germany and Europe," the newspaper quoted the spokesman. "In this regard, the government is in intensive contact with the company CureVac."

Germany, according to the newspaper, tries to keep the company with financial offers. According to the report, CureVac is working with the federal Paul Ehrlich Institute for Vaccines and Biomedical Drugs to produce a vaccine against the virus.

[Buddahaid]

I see it's a good thing to have a couple of gallons of 91% isopropyl alcohol on hand.

[Aktungbby]

You taking the fun out everything! :03:

I don't know jack about booze, is there something stronger?
FROM MY COLLEGE 'DAZE' 190 PROOF(95% ALCOHOL BY VOLUME): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/EverclearHiRes.jpg/320px-EverclearHiRes.jpg<REALLY WICKED STUFF; IF U WANT VODKA, JUST CUT IT WITH WATER AND YOU'RE BACK TO 40% ALCOHOL BY VOLUME.:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Traveller]

*deleted*

[Buddahaid]

That guy looks like a meth head.

[Traveller]

That guy looks like a meth head.Please don't judge a book by it's cover. He has lots of good info and advice.

It's comments like this that me question why I even waste my time posting here. :nope:

[vienna]

Don't let the door hit ya where God split ya... :haha:


Here in Los Angeles, the public libraries are closed til at least 1 April and the Catholic Diocese has asked worshipers not to attend services in their local churches; the same holds with Jewish congregations, but I haven't heard any of the organized Protestant denominations shutting down, although I'm gonna guess they will follow likewise. There is a "Dollar Store" around the corner from my home and I went there earlier this evening and they really hadn't been picked over by the hoarders much at all; still plenty of cleaning and health items and a goodly amount of their usual limited ranges of food items. What I did notice was the emptiness of the streets, both in terms of pedestrians and vehicles; when I ventured out last night and tonight, the usual heavy foot and vehicle traffic normally seen on weekend nights here in Hollywood was pretty much gone; I haven't seen the streets this vacant since 9/11...






<O>

[Traveller]

Don't let the door hit ya where God split ya... :haha:
Yep, a waste of time. :shifty:

[Buddahaid]

Please don't judge a book by it's cover. He has lots of good info and advice.

It's comments like this that me question why I even waste my time posting here. :nope:

I can comment on observation if I want to and did I say I didn't watch them, or are you making knee jerk conclusions from zero knowledge?

I like your posts but if you're going to constantly get hurt feelings over minutia, by all means feel free to stop and save yourself the drama.

[Reece]

Come on guys settle down otherwise: :yep:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/9919917.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=responsive-gallery

[Rufus Shinra]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection

Health officials point out that anti-inflammatory drugs are known to be a risk for those with infectious illnesses because they tend to diminish the response of the body’s immune system.

The health ministry added that patients should choose paracetamol because “it will reduce the fever without counterattacking the inflammation”.

Sure it's fake news...

[STEED]

Trip down to my local supermarket for toilet rolls...HEY HEY.

Oh wait a minute on closer inspection they are trying to pass off Kitchen hand towel paper for toilet rolls!!!!!!!!! :nope:

No one bought any. :yep:

Looks like the Supermarkets cash in on panic buying is coming to an end as they write open letters urging people to stop. What they really are saying is we can not keep up with panic buying and shopper's are venting their rage on staff. :03:


Meanwhile Health Minister Matt Hancock MP is asking manufacturers to make more ventilators and here comes the ching ching money in the bank..."No number is too high". That will be taken for cost not production numbers. Do I here double triple the cost? You bet you're arse they will. :rolleyes:

[Skybird]

Yesterday or the day before claims emerged that the university of Vienna should have run research finding that Ibuprofen could worsten Corona-19. This claim, basing on a pivate conbversation of the rporting perosn with soembody claiming to work at the university, seems t got picked upo by Fremnch offiocials, echpoing this warning. However. The French do not refer to the Vienna story, but an article in the Lancet some days ago, but an article that does to describe esotaboished, confirmed findings, but y hpyothesis so far cmlared only against a ver ylow case number.



The [French] minister's recommendation is not based on the alleged research results from Vienna, but on an article published three days ago in the renowned specialist magazine "Lancet". Three doctors indicated that drugs that inhibit the cell receptor ACE could possibly worsen the course of Covid-19.

The idea: There are so-called ACE receptors on the cell surface, to which the ACE enzyme binds. It is precisely these receptors that the coronavirus uses to penetrate the cells. ACE inhibitors intercept the ACE enzyme, the ACE receptors remain free and the viruses can penetrate more easily. The cells may even increase the number of receptors when the enzyme is trapped. This would give the viruses even more opportunities to enter the cell.

According to an unconfirmed hypothesis, ibuprofen is said to have a similar effect. However, it has not yet been checked whether this is true. The "Lancet" article is explicitly formulated as a hypothesis. Because the number of patients involved is far too low for a hard scientific study: the researchers only look at the course of the disease in 32 Chinese patients who died in the intensive care unit in the past few weeks.

Ibuprofen also does not act as an ACE inhibitor, but influences other substances in the body: prostaglandins. These tissue hormones affect a number of organs, somewhat the circulatory system or the eye.

So the ibuprofen hypothesis is very shaky. It is not enough to draw a clear conclusion. It was not tested at the cell level whether ibuprofen - via whatever mechanism - leads to the fact that the virus can penetrate the cells more easily. I woudl reocmmend to not take fever killers at all as long as the fever is not a threat in itself. Becasue high temperature is a wepaon by whcih the body tries to fight the attacker. Force the body to lower the raised temperature and you ban this weapon and bind it one hand on its back.

I rarely get a cold of flu these years, but if I see it coming, I try to artifically RAISE my temperature, until I sweat. It shortens the sickness' duration.

Corvid-19 is associated with low degrees of mild fever, in the mid and high 37°C range. Let it do its job. If you feel your breath runs short or a pain is appearing in your chest, respiratory system and lungs, then you are a "complication" and then you need to fight for your life - get contact with the emergency service immediately. pneumonia also means reduciton of oxygene supply fr your body and organs, - short breath signficantly weaken your body'S defences on all levels, lowering your chances. This weakenign turns into failing, and it is a progressive process. It is nothign you want to fool around with.

If you fele just symptoms of a mld flu, mild fever, dry cough and nothign more, self-isolate and self-quarantine - tell people to stay away and not enter you flat. But do not bother the ambulance people - they already have their hands full with more severe things. Call your national emergency number only if you are not a mild case. Also, you do not want to go into hospital easily these days, you risk of getting even more seriously infested there. Even by staff.

However, so that thsi also is clear, do nto avoid hpspital help at all cost. Where need is, call for help. Where you suffer just mildy from Cordiv-19, stay out of the way and stay in self-quarantine for two weeks. But where you feel you run short on breath, immediately call for help, because then your case is serious.


Everybody, stay away from others. No visits. No meetings. No social life. STAY by YOURSELF, and away fro toehrs as much as you can. this is the way we all need to fight this beatst - and can defeat it. STAY AWAY FROM each other, if you are not in the meedical business or work in essential services.


And thank those who are risking their own health and family and wellbeing in fighting against this and helping patients in hospitals. Thank them where you have the opportunity, and send them a friendly thougt every damn day as long as this battle lasts. Its war, and they are the ones at the front. You owe them. You are in no position to demand them. YOU OWE THEM. Their decision to stay in these jobs, deserve our utmost admiration, and where possible, practical support.


Where you still can, go donating blood. Here in Germany, blood donations have broken in to just one fifth of their former levels. Blood can be stored just 6 weeks. The shelves in the blood banks are almost empty. They desperately cry for help, the situation already is critical.

[em2nought]

DIY Ventilator? :hmmm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvrUQCMa3a8


I wonder if a cpap machine might be useful if you can't get on a ventilator?

[Skybird]

More and more reports come in in Germany that in regions already heavily affected, hospital staff, nurses, are as good as completely infected themselves already. Also, that in many houses staff does work without protective suits and masks.

This is worrying, because compared to others we still are int he openign stage of the match. We have the highest density of intensive care beds worldwide, we have one of the highest rates of machineries per bed worldwide, at we rank amongst the absolute top regarding hospital bed density in egneral. We have the beds, we have the ventilators and amhcines - but we are notoriously runnign low on nurses, already in peace times.

They now want to reactivate pensioneers.

The german problem no. 1 most likely will be that we run out of nurses.

Reminds me of the old Starfighter problem the Germans had: too many planes, too few maintenace crews. And so they started to drop down from the sky and did not stop.

I hear the british have opted for wanting to enforce her immunity by letting the infestation run. this is probaly the ost stupid thing they could dok sinc etheir health system is absolutely unfit for this. It will get overwhelmed by too high case numbers in too short time, and then more people will die than was necessary. I call it a deliberately murderous policy.

This will break Johnson's neck. I could even imagine that in the distant future he will go on trial for this.

Britian has a beds-per-1000 population ratio of just 2.4 or 2.5 (that is significantly less than Italy), and is desperately short on ventilators.

"They will fall like the flies".

[STEED]

The health secretary has told Sky News that over-70s will be asked to self-isolate "in the coming weeks" to try to protect them from coronavirus - and it could potentially last for months.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-over-70s-will-be-asked-to-self-isolate-potentially-for-months-11957770

Useless dumbass, sack him now.

So how our my folks going to do their weekly shopping, keep their GP and Hospitals appointment let alone pop out to buy something that they need. Of course this will be the case up and down the land with over 70's.

[Catfish]

If the German government lets this happen, it should get court-martialled, so to speak. Its in the vitla interest of germany and the world outside America to deny this move at any cost and even by use of force, and if needed the state should even take over this company.
"If the German government lets this happen" ?
So Trump has to buy stuff elsewhere because he can't do it himself after blocking research with his anti-science program three years ago. And now he wants to buy a german company and transfer it to the US, and next wants to have the patent on the vaccine, to make money with it.

Words fail me.

[Hitman]

Corvid-19 is associated with low degrees of mild fever, in the mid and high 37°C range. Let it do its job. If you feel your breath runs short or a pain is appearing in your chest, respiratory system and lungs, then you are a "complication" and then you need to fight for your life - get contact with the emergency service immediately. pneumonia also means reduciton of oxygene supply fr your body and organs, - short breath signficantly weaken your body'S defences on all levels, lowering your chances. This weakenign turns into failing, and it is a progressive process. It is nothign you want to fool around with.

If you fele just symptoms of a mld flu, mild fever, dry cough and nothign more, self-isolate and self-quarantine - tell people to stay away and not enter you flat. But do not bother the ambulance people - they already have their hands full with more severe things. Call your national emergency number only if you are not a mild case. Also, you do not want to go into hospital easily these days, you risk of getting even more seriously infested there. Even by staff.

However, so that thsi also is clear, do nto avoid hpspital help at all cost. Where need is, call for help. Where you suffer just mildy from Cordiv-19, stay out of the way and stay in self-quarantine for two weeks. But where you feel you run short on breath, immediately call for help, because then your case is serious.



I read an article today that said the rule with this virus as learned in China so far seems to be 80-15-5, i.e. from all people who get infected 80% have none or mild symptoms, 15% do have more severe ones and might need hospitalization at some point, and 5% will die. The main problem is that when that 15% is of a big amount of people because it is so infectious, the 5% raises because people that normally could be recovered won't any longer be in an overstressed health system. As more and more of that 80% of people get immune, the ratio of infection will decrease as there will be less people able to transmit it. The idea in Italy, Spain and such, even if acting criminally late and not enough in my opinion, is to flatten the curve so that even if most population get infected, which will happen anyway, the health system is not so much overstressed and you can save as many of that 15% as possible. In the UK, it seems that Johnson is embracing that idea completely and going for a "controlled" (LOL at the illusion of control) allowance of it spreading.

So no, this is not Walking Dead or the end of humankind by far, but still it's going to kill many people and wreck the economy and many concepts we took for granted. The elephant in the room is globalization and places like China with their wet markets being a nest for such sanitary emergencies. Once this all is over, the world should better start thinking seriously about capping once and for all much of the nonesense that has been going on like unlimited tourism everywhere, nearly uncontrolled acceptance of people and goods from countries that have no sanitary guarantees etc.

It isn't fun though sitting here taking chances at you or your loved ones being in that 15% or not ...

[Traveller]

Here's a crazy video I came across taken recently at a Costco in California. Must be at least 1,000 customers waiting in line. :o

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGlTBVFFyro

[Rufus Shinra]

"If the German government lets this happen" ?
So Trump has to buy stuff elsewhere because he can't do it himself after blocking research with his anti-science program three years ago. And now he wants to buy a german company and transfer it to the US, and next wants to have the patent on the vaccine, to make money with it.

Words fail me.
How are you even surprised? He wanted to buy Greenland, after all. There's a reason most of the planet is laughing at him, and openly so.

[Skybird]

"If the German government lets this happen" ?
So Trump has to buy stuff elsewhere because he can't do it himself after blocking research with his anti-science program three years ago. And now he wants to buy a german company and transfer it to the US, and next wants to have the patent on the vaccine, to make money with it.

Words fail me.
My fear is that he wants to monopüolizte it for powerpoltical reasons. And of coruse toi distract from his own monumentla failure in all this. Lets face it, and I do not care whether I sound anti-Americna with this statement or not (it snot itended ot be, but some will see it as that): the samericna system has awfully, terribly,m monumentally failed until here.



The WHO has terribly, awfully, monumentally failed as well. Which confirms my deep mistrust for such huge supranational organisations. They lacked behind the going by many weeks from all beginning on, and still do so.



Best reactions I have seen so far, the quickest and sharpest shooting, came from Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea.



Until two days ago, the US had not done as many tests in the past months together as Korea does in a single day!! And even yesterday and today the rate is so hilarious that I would describe it as that they do not really test at all. Pure chaos. And a complete and total failure of the management at the very top. Which has worstend the situation in recent years by unexcusable budegt cuts for the CDC - demanded, authorized and signed by the great presidente! (tm) of the United States. And his sectarian church still sings his song! :har:



For the US, this is not just a desaster like for anyone else. Its a disgrace. I mean this is not Sudan or Yemen or some god-forsaken bananan republic, but its the US! Its as if they got pearlharboured again, this time even with friendly assistance and handing over of maps and intel info by El Presidente himself.

[Traveller]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fjuWyXzKBIw

[Rufus Shinra]

My fear is that he wants to monopüolizte it for powerpoltical reasons. And of coruse toi distract from his own monumentla failure in all this. Lets face it, and I do not care whether I sound anti-Americna with this statement or not (it snot itended ot be, but some will see it as that): the samericna system has awfully, terribly,m monumentally failed until here.



The WHO has terribly, awfully, monumentally failed as well. Which confirms my deep mistrust for such huge supranational organisations. They lacked behind the going by many weeks from all beginning on, and still do so.



Best reactions I have seen so far, the quickest and sharpest shooting, came from Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea.



Until two days ago, the US had not done as many tests in the past months together as Korea does in a single day!! And even yesterday and today the rate is so hilarious that I would describe it as that they do not really test at all. Pure chaos. And a complete and total failure of the management at the very top. Which has worstend the situation in recent years by unexcusable budegt cuts for the CDC - demanded, authorized and signed by the great presidente! (tm) of the United States. And his sectarian church still sings his song! :har:



For the US, this is not just a desaster like for anyone else. Its a disgrace. I mean this is not Sudan or Yemen or some god-forsaken bananan republic, but its the US! Its as if they got pearlharboured again, this time even with friendly assistance and handing over of maps and intel info by El Presidente himself.
What else to expect from a businessman so bad he bankrupted several casinos? It's a disaster and a disgrace, but not a surprise.

[Jimbuna]

Supermarkets are urging shoppers not to buy more than they need amid concern over coronavirus-linked stockpiling.

In a joint letter, UK retailers have reminded customers to be considerate in their shopping, so that others are not left without much-needed items.

"There is enough for everyone if we all work together," it adds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51883440

I suspect they are wasting their time and breath.

[Onkel Neal]

Here's a crazy video I came across taken recently at a Costco in California. Must be at least 1,000 customers waiting in line. :o

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGlTBVFFyro

Man, trying not to be judgmental here but wow. People are so ..... wow.

[Skybird]

And then that moment back at home, when they unpack all their treausres and realise that they forgot that one precious little thing, that little box of sweeties they so desperately craved for, that one ingredient without which they cannot cook for their friends thta evening...


Or worst: if they realise they forgot the loo paper. :har:

[Mr Quatro]

What else to expect from a businessman so bad he bankrupted several casinos? It's a disaster and a disgrace, but not a surprise.

Your job Rufus seems to be one that discredits our President at every opportunity given ... I now suspect you are being paid to do this by a group of people known as trolls

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.

The only reason that you upset me is that it is a waste of time to read your post. :yep:

Skybird at least makes good sense in his approach to helping us solve this Covid-19 problem even though he also dislikes our president to the point of calling hims silly names.

His advice is most welcome, but if you continue to upset me I will ignore you and hope others will stop interacting with you also.

[Skybird]

Skybird at least makes good sense in his approach to helping us solve this Covid-19 problem even though he also dislikes our president to the point of calling hims silly names.
:03: I appreciate that you recognise the difference. :up:

[Skybird]

According to the managing director, the pharmaceutical company CureVac from Germany does not want to conclude an exclusive contract for a possible corona vaccine. According to a report by the Mannheimer Morgen newspaper, the Tübingen-based company is not considering such a contract, which US President Donald Trump wants to conclude exclusively for the US for a lot of money, according to “Welt am Sonntag”. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries," said the managing director and co-founder of the main investor "dievini Hopp BioTech Holding", Christof Hettich, to the newspaper.

The SAP co-founder and patron Dietmar Hopp and the entrepreneur Friedrich von Bohlen are also among the founders and managing directors. The pharmaceutical company CureVac has been researching a vaccine against the novel corona virus since January. In addition, Hopp firmly held on to the company, the employees and also the main location in Tübingen, said Hettich.

Frankfurter Rundschau

If so^: good, relief.

[Skybird]

A matter of fact report. Plenty of important graphs and data. You want to have an idea of what it says.

Especially the executioner in Londown better should want to look very closely at this before he starts axing his people.



https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[mapuc]

WHO have said the death ratio(correct ?) is somewhere around 3 %.

I guess this must be an average percentage.

Because it's little higher in Italy and most likely a lot higher in Iran and other not so develop countries.

Markus

[Hitman]

That is a very informative link Skybird, thanks.