Wuhan virus 2020 [Archive] - Page 15 - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

vienna

05-13-20, 04:17 PM

Of all the things I learned in Elementary School, I never would have thought that, in 2020, avoiding cooties would be the most important. :D

https://i.imgflip.com/3stmua.jpg

I cant deny that the good Doctor Fauci is doing what he is getting paid to do. He has one job and quite frankly he does it extremely well. But his position is that of a medical professional, he knows that COVID-19 is bad and knows what it takes to mitigate its affects. However I doubt seriously he considers, global and domestic economic health, military readiness, internal politics and foreign affairs in his assessments. We have to find a middle road to recovery rather than swinging from one extreme to the other.

Very true Dr. Fauci is doing the job he is paid to do and he is doing it well; probably very true he really doesn't take economic health, et.c very much into his scientific findings, but, then again, that's not what he is paid to do, as you put it; the problem is so many of those problems of economic health, etc., are ignoring the fact that a very substantial factor going forward is the management of the effects of the pandemic and the mitigation of not only economic effects, but, also, of the effects on the health of those who are the voters, the customers, the employees, the human element of the national infrastructure, etc.; it doesn't do any good in any sense, whether economically, politically, or pragmatically, to unnecessarily and willfully put lives in danger for a narrow segment of the whole problem; you are right, there is a wing of extremes involved and it is not mitigated by having the decision-making dominated by one extreme; unfortunately, for those now making the decisions, the extreme is the only thing they know or will consider...

Maybe it is time to remove the decision-making process from those who seek political gain and place it in the hands of a bi- or non-partisan commission of actual experts (instead of self-proclaimed "expertise") and let them hash out some realistic proposals that Congress, who really should have the final say, can act upon or submit a guidelines to the States...

Basically, it works out to this: if I want advise on my finance, I'd seek a financial advisor; if I wanted advice on my health, I'd seek medical expertise; if I wanted advice on the possible effects of social interaction during an epi-/pandemic, I seek out and epidemiologist; in none of those cases would I ever seek out a politician or wannabe...

<O>

vienna

05-13-20, 04:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iagUDDyhf64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHaeCNPxZ6M

...and the originating story for the above two from 2004:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O79e2bwC8s

<O>

John Zelada

05-13-20, 05:27 PM

at this point how can it disappear like the Spanish flu can it stay for several years like the black plague

Rockstar

05-13-20, 05:47 PM

at this point how can it disappear like the Spanish flu can it stay for several years like the black plague

Estimates of the global population was 1.8 billion people during the Spanish Flu pandemic. Some studies have suggested total deaths from that pandemic could have been as high as 100 million (Johnson and Mueller). That virus though deadly may have had a better chance of dying out because of the generally smaller global population and no where near the technology and means to transport billions of people a day over land, sea and air like we can today.
With a global population of now over 7.8 billion people and rising fast it has lead to more overcrowding, couple that with globalization and modern transportation. Unless something changes I gotta feeling this pandemic and many more to come are going to be around a very long time.

Mr Quatro

05-13-20, 06:41 PM

at this point how can it disappear like the Spanish flu can it stay for several years like the black plague

Welcome aboard John ... Nobody knows yet ... this is all brand new :yep:

It's a wonder mankind made it this far if you ask me :o

Mr Quatro

05-13-20, 08:19 PM

ikalugin

05-14-20, 03:43 AM

Russian daily new cases have stabilised and seem to be going down.

Eichhörnchen

05-14-20, 05:02 AM

https://i.imgur.com/vKkMTSO.jpg

Jimbuna

05-14-20, 05:56 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQEiQhPdyiI

Jimbuna

05-14-20, 05:59 AM

The UN says the pandemic has caused widespread psychological distress worldwide.
It calls on all countries to make mental health support a key part of their virus response.

Japan's government announces restrictions are being eased earlier than planned in most regions.
Tokyo and other badly affected prefectures will remain under a state of emergency.

The virus "may never go away", even with a vaccine, the WHO has warned.

Brazil reports another new record number of cases - 11,385 in 24 hours.

President Trump says he "totally" disagrees with top US medical advisor Dr Fauci over opening schools
Dr Fauci warned rushing to reopen schools and the economy could set back the US recovery.

The UK chancellor says it is "very likely" the UK is in a "significant recession"

Globally, the number of people confirmed to have died with Covid-19 is nearing 300,000

Australia records a 6.2% unemployment rate - PM Morrison says this is "shocking but not surprising"

Skybird

05-14-20, 06:02 AM

Three (3) more months stay at home extension for LA County, but the beaches have been opened.

LA County is not a small area it is made up of over twenty-three (23) communities :o Which includes Watts where the riots were back in 1965 and April 1992 :o

I moved there in November 1992 and left December 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rBqbW3Wtu0&feature=emb_logo
First thing I saw on the pic for the youtube link is thzat the guy in front wears no mask.

Wearing a mask wrongly (not covering nose) and wearing no masks, is the same.

I see a lot of people doing it wrong in the reality around me. Yeah I know it sucks to breath with these thigns on for hours. Still. What must be, must be. Not covering your mask over your nose as well means wearing no mask at all.

People do not understand what it is about. They think its just a bureaucratic gameplay, a formality that can be bend and pushed . They do not understand that they have to deal with a virus directly: and its the virus that commands the terms and conditions. Way too many people just do not understand this.

For too many, peasants and kings alike, its just about building alibis. Functionality and effect is not that much asked for.

Jimbuna

05-14-20, 06:06 AM

Emergency hospital visits in England have halved since the coronavirus outbreak started, dropping to their lowest level since records began.

India and Pakistan to make virus drug remdesivir.

A US pharmaceutical firm has signed agreements with drug makers in South Asia to expand supply of the drug remdesivir for treating Covid-19.

Public Health England’s approval of a new antibody test for coronavirus is good news. Previous tests have proved unreliable, but officials say this one is different.

Antibody tests aim to find out if an individual has had the virus in the past, which may mean they have some immunity from reinfection.

But government ministers say they don’t know when the new tests will be available to the public.

Other European countries are ahead of the UK and have already been carrying out limited antibody testing programmes.

In Germany, the Accredited Laboratories for Medicine association (ALM) said 61,299 antibody tests were conducted last week. ALM warned that taking the test should not be a reason for ending social distancing measures.

And in Spain, the Health Ministry said yesterday that preliminary results of a study, based on more than 60,000 antibody tests around the country, suggested that about 5% of the population had been infected by coronavirus so far.

Jimbuna

05-14-20, 07:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctN34C1fLWo

Catfish

05-14-20, 07:31 AM

Hamburg study: Corona affects several organs (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndr.de%2Fnachrichten%2Fhamburg %2FHamburger-Studie-Corona-befaellt-mehrere-Organe-%2Cuke638.html)
(translation by Google)

"" ... the novel corona virus, is not just a lung virus, but a multi-organ virus," said the head of the study, Tobias Huber, on Thursday in Hamburg.
This has been shown by studies of 27 patients who died of Covid-19. The second most affected organ are the kidneys, "not infrequently up to total organ failure".

In addition, the pathogen was found in the heart, liver, brain and blood. The highest concentrations were found in the cells of the respiratory tract."

Mr Quatro

05-14-20, 09:11 AM

First thing I saw on the pic for the youtube link is thzat the guy in front wears no mask.

Wearing a mask wrongly (not covering nose) and wearing no masks, is the same.

I see a lot of people doing it wrong in the reality around me. Yeah I know it sucks to breath with these thigns on for hours. Still. What must be, must be. Not covering your mask over your nose as well means wearing no mask at all.

People do not understand what it is about. They think its just a bureaucratic gameplay, a formality that can be bend and pushed . They do not understand that they have to deal with a virus directly: and its the virus that commands the terms and conditions. Way too many people just do not understand this.

For too many, peasants and kings alike, its just about building alibis. Functionality and effect is not that much asked for.

I agree with both statements it is hard to wear all day at the VA which stops you before you even get inside asking if you have any of the symptoms. Then they even give you a mask if you don't have one, but it is cheap and hurts. I had mine on upside down and got rebuked by a nurse.

Then I thought I would try to breathe better by pulling it down below my nose, but again I got caught and told to pull it up. :oops:

This is serious stuff, but what will it take for the general population to catch on ... more news media is not the answer. Perhaps a loved one or a testimony I heard from one lady that I think is now dead. She simply cried out, "I didn't know you could catch it just talking to someone"

Now I am wondering how in the hell can things ever get back to normal and what is normal? People with money spending it on expensive vacations, diamonds, sports cars, champagne and caviar, designer clothes, private jets, million dollar bunkers, gambling on sports teams?

Nothing is going to be the same again even after a cure has been found and then it will have to be distributed by the millions to be effective. Stay at home for seniors will become normal, which brings up another question.

Who will hire senior's anymore if they are more susceptible to catching Covid-19 and if 25% of the population is out of work who's going to pay for social security and if social security goes bankrupt who's going to take care of all of the seniors.

No this thing is not over and it's not even close to being over ... I saw a vision of all those cruise ships being turned into floating hotels in bay's where they come from with the passengers being ferried out to them, but they can't afford to go anywhere anymore due to no country wants the passengers or the crews or the problems they bring.

2021 is just six months and two weeks and a few days away with even more new problems to face next year. :yep:

August

05-14-20, 11:13 AM

Hey forum medical experts is this Graham guy right?

http://thepilotspub.org/download/file.php?id=11437

Well? Seems like a pretty easy answer given all the medical experts we have here.

Rockstar

05-14-20, 11:56 AM

The problem with taking it out of the hands of elected officials and placing it in the hands of advisors is whose advice are you going to follow? At least with elected officials we have a say and can get rid of them every four years.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Below is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.

[The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people.

Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things.

I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data”,

…there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune.

We should better integrate the scientific facts into the political decisions

there're other opinions in the article my favorite being "Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong." Thank you for your service Dr. Fauci but maybe its time for you to take a break. The media must stop politicizing every aspect of life as well.

u crank

05-14-20, 12:21 PM

The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

And very aggressive public relations I might add. :D

mapuc

05-14-20, 12:24 PM

Well? Seems like a pretty easy answer given all the medical experts we have here.

Was thinking on asking who this Graham guy is/was
I could then read or watch what he had to say..but my opinion would be a non-medical statement.

Heck I'm confused myself-one day our authorities say this, the next day they say that.

Markus

Skybird

05-14-20, 01:28 PM

At least with elected officials we have a say and can get rid of them every four years.
No, they are just strawmen of their parties. The networks they stand for and that have brought them up, stay. Always.

Fake choice. Nothing ever really changes. Elections are distractions, are part of panem et circensis.

If elections really would have a meaning and could change something, they would not let you vote.

Catfish

05-14-20, 01:35 PM

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."
(Winston said it, but he quoted someone else :yep:)

Jimbuna

05-14-20, 01:43 PM

UK Transport Secretary Grant Shapps urges people to avoid public transport and use a car when they can.

London's mayor has called for a government transport bailout by the end of the day.

In the UK, a further 428 people have died with Covid-19, bringing the total to 33,614

Nearly 3m Americans claimed unemployment benefits last week , bringing total since March to 36.5m

A top US vaccine doctor removed from his role testifies that US government was unprepared for the pandemic.

France's government says drug giant Sanofi's plans to prioritise the US if it develops a vaccine are "unacceptable"

The UN says the pandemic has caused widespread psychological distress worldwide.

Globally, the number of people confirmed to have died with Covid-19 nears 300,000, with 1.5m recovered.

Skybird

05-14-20, 02:14 PM

A quick test used for testing - amongst others - staff at the WH, seems to have a very high error rate. Its being reported that depending on the way the test is apllicated (with wet or dry sticks) the error rate in negative results (subject appears to be healthy) is either around 35% or around 50%.

35 and 50% margin of error. Why wasting money for this...? A test with such values is of zero use. But the company selling it (and being advertised by the Donaldinarium on repeated occasions) makes big money with it.

Antibody tests have principle issues that you cannot really work around , since antibodies get produced by the infected body after not before - I seem to recall - 7-9 days. You can be tested for several days in the incubation phase with a negative result - although you are ill, and infectous. Many praise them as the next big thing in battling Covid-19. My view of these tests is muted. And I do not even talk about the principally low precision/correct recogniution rate of these tests. Error rates of 30% and more render medical tests useless, imo. Its way too high a margin of error.

Meanwhile the WHO says that due to the aggressivness of the spreading of this voirus iut may not ever go away completgley. I agree. We need to learn ways of adapting to it and dealing and living with it.

Didnt I say from very early on that the old world is gone and that we will not get back the old ways and lives of ours? Slowly this sinks into some people's minds. Adapting means: behavior styles and habits changing. Maybe drugs for treatment. Maybe a vaccine. The latter two points are hoped for - but certain they are not. Some of these changes I like. People cleaning their sweaty hands on mine for a greeting, or trying to hug and kiss me, will be a thing of the past. VERY NICE. People trying to close social distances when standing together until boith boidies almost touch, arer a thign fo the past, too, and if there is a violator I have every excuse to push him back in all clearness without being accused of an impoliteness - EVEN BETTER. Some more positive things on my mind as well. Its not all bad. But maybe thats just me and my living style.

Skybird

05-14-20, 03:41 PM

They have done a TV experiment in Japan. Ten guests in a normal restaurant scene were invited in a big room with a buffet. They were told to enjoy the time, behave according to to anti-Corona rules, and to use the buffet. One of the guests was "infested" with a chemical agent on his hands that fluoresces in black light.

The result was quite shocking. 30 minutes later, they switched off the white light and turned to black light, and they saw: EVERYBODY was infected due to smear infection, three even in the face. Despite anti-Corona social rules (one would assume that Japanese are more disciplined practicing such rules than Westerners).

Add to this recent findings of Corona getting transported already by ordinary talking, and that aerosols from bvretahign cna stand for severla hours in the air, and heavier aerosols from talking with bigger particles of higher virus load for almost a quarter of an hour.

Do not get into such situations, if you can avoid them. Wear FFP masks if needing to stay in them. I woudl even recommend to wear big glasses, if only to avoid your fingers touching your eyes area, but such glasses may even come handy if somebody - masked or unmasked - coughes into your face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQEuuv9R6E

Skybird

05-14-20, 03:50 PM

And this from the university of Oregon. Their animation reminds of the viozualization doen by the Fiunis a week or ten days ago, in supermarkets.

Air streams from open windows and ventilators/air conditioners must be considered, 6 feet social distance are not enough.

I say: both inside or outside: if interacting with other people, if you can take a posiiton where you have the naturla wind or any artificial air stream in your rear, or less ideal: on your side. Do not accept it to have it in your face.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-study-six-feet-spread-restaurants-reopen/

mapuc

05-14-20, 03:58 PM

There's another thing I have noticed in our lock down.

People are complaining-They can't do what they use to do.
Some is complaining that they had to stay inside with their kids all these days and only going outside for shopping.

Markus

Rockstar

05-14-20, 04:40 PM

Other than quitting my job nothing has really changed for me. I still go to the store to buy food and necessities (though no where as often as I had in the past). But it has giving me more time to kayak, bicycle, hike, and spark one up. I even went hunting for some 'shrooms the other day. Life is good.

mapuc

05-14-20, 05:12 PM

Do you trust your elected government and the Politicians in your Parliament ?
Do you think they do the right thing in this Crisis ?

Here in Denmark they have made a survey.
They asked A representative group of the Danish population and 72 % of those who have been asked, have said they more or less have trust in the Danish government and the way they are handling this Corona Crisis.

Markus

Skybird

05-14-20, 05:40 PM

I trust no politician who ever was eager to get into that job - or did so without somebody holding a weapon at his head. By the mere desire to become politicians, nine out of ten - minimum - have already proven that they are by character unsuited for this position. Most office holders also hold offices, especially ministries, that by experience and competence they are not suited, trained and qualified for.

Being qualified by education and training, and getting voted for, are two totally different things. Unfortunately, elections empirically are proven to mostly flush the scum to the top.

Which is no compliment for the electorate either.

So dont ask me "Do you trust your politicians?" Of course I don't, and never will. Not ours, not yours, not theirs. And I have overwhelming historical empirical evidence on my side that this mistrust is very, very justified. Politicians are mostly good for just one thing: to promise they have the solution for the mess their predecessor has created. To me that is mess that without poilticians would not be there in the first.

Same goes for religious messiahs and missionaries. They want the same like politicians, by other means: power over people, and to live of the people. They are similar twins, but you can recognise each of them by their different clothes.

They all get bred by the networks behind them. The names and faces may change, but the system that breeds them stays the same, and so the bred offsprings always are the same as well. To prevent any surprises there - thats what these networks are designed for. These nbetwoprks are parties, and intervowen networkjs of industrial contacts, and finance industry, and ideological, supranational/international structures.

mapuc

05-14-20, 06:06 PM

You have developed an immunity towards your politicians and their never ending truism, like I have when it comes to Swedish and Danish politicians.

I was surprised when they said how many have confidence in the Danish government. I was expecting a high number, but 72 % who fully or almost fully have trust their government in this Corona crisis.

Markus

Skybird

05-14-20, 06:16 PM

You have developed an immunity towards your politicians and their never ending truism, like I have when it comes to Swedish and Danish politicians.

Do you understand a bit of German?
https://sciencefiles.org/2020/05/08/anleitung-zum-mundigsein-10-regeln-zur-abwehr-von-manipulationsversuchen/

Platapus

05-14-20, 06:28 PM

Someone on another forum posted a sobering thought.

By the end of this year, it is likely that everyone in the US will know someone personally who died of COVID19.

Yikes, I had not thought of it in those terms.

I am only one step away. I know of several people who have had and recovered from COVID19 and one of their family members died. By coincidence I did not know this person. But it is only May.

ikalugin

05-14-20, 09:44 PM

https://www.mos.ru/mayor/themes/18299/6510050/?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews

Working on the shift towards mass antibody testing in Moscow as a part of post lock down transition.
Current capability to conduct 100k tests daily with planned expansion to 200k tests daily.

Jimbuna

05-15-20, 05:58 AM

Germany - Europe’s largest economy - shrinks by 2.2%, the worst since 2009 and the financial crisis.

Slovenia becomes first European country to declare an end to its virus epidemic.

Restaurants, cafes and shops can now open in Australia's most populous state, but with strict distancing rules.

A US whistleblower and virus expert has said "lives were lost" because of early government inaction.

The three Baltic states - Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia - create borderless travel zone for their citizens.

More than 1.5m people have recovered from the virus worldwide, but 300,000 people have died.

Jimbuna

05-15-20, 06:09 AM

China has urged the US to help strengthen co-operation in the fight against coronavirus, following renewed criticism of its response from President Donald Trump.

Photos of a packed airport in Indonesia have triggered an uproar online.

Earlier, Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he wanted to open "some aspects of tourism" in the summer season.

Germany will ease quarantine rules for visitors arriving from the EU and the UK, the interior ministry says.

North Korea has unveiled footage of people in Pyongyang spending time outdoors, in a move seen as a response to foreign reports about the country struggling to contain Covid-19.

Russia's latest coronavirus figures show 10,598 new confirmed cases on Friday, pushing its nationwide tally to 262,843.

Researchers say Belgium has seen its highest April mortality rate since World War Two. The team at Vrije Universiteit Brussel say the southern city of Mons and Brussels itself were hit particularly hard.

Restaurants and cafes are reopening in Austria. Tables should be at least a metre apart, there should be a maximum of four adults plus children. No salt-shakers are allowed on tables.

Germany is gearing up for a return to Bundesliga football on Saturday - but an ARD opinion poll suggests 56% of Germans believe it's too early.

About 10 million pigs could be killed by mid-September, the organisation representing the US pork industry has warned.

Lockdown restrictions in the Philippines are impeding efforts to help victims of Typhoon Vongfong, which struck the east of the country on Thursday.

Skybird

05-15-20, 07:26 AM

"Compelling evidence"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fxw3nTZYlA

"Good vitamine D status is specifically effective againbst Covid 19." (minute 8:00 on)
"We actually have TWO pandemics. We have the Covid 19 pandemic, obviously, but we also have a deficiency of Vitamine D pandemic that is silent, that is invisible, that is not recognized by medical authorities." (10:15)

As usual my reminder that higher doses of Vitamine D should be accompanied by Vitamine K and Magnesium. Vit-K to keep calcium in the bones and not in the bloodstream, Magnesium to "acivate" Vit-D absorpption. A bit of oil, fat also is needed, at leats reocmmended, to increase the absorption rate. By all what I read I would recommend to quicklaunch the Vit D defences by taking 20 thosuand IE for two or three weeks, then halve this dose, and if you feel emotionally alarmed about that still, halve it again to 5000 after another 2-3 weeks.

In more detail I explained it already earlier, a few pages back.

Stupid German minster, a walking irrelevance with a big empty balloon on her neck, wants to ban vitamine supplements alltogether, at least redcue them to therapeutically irrelvant doses. And she wants to do it in the whole EU. Fortunately her star is already sinking, and I hope it crashes before she can get the EU acting on this inb all seriosuness. The pharmaceutical industries earn more by selling drugs and medicine for ill people, than to allow people investing in preventon against getting ill in the first. - And the recommendations of the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Ernährung DGE? Bases in parts on the knowldfge status of the time between both world wars. You cannot become any more ultraconservative than they are, they again show the German disease: assuming only the most perfect and ideal environment and world to be real, and ruling out an less perfect reality, thus claimign that proper food alone will privide you with all you need. That almost nobody cares to consume this theoretically "ideal" diet (not to mention that if you check it it is impracticle to follow it and would mean you spend absurd efforts an consuming absurd amounts of this and that), is completely ignored, they demand that you instead follow their total and absolute wisdom and do what they say. Black and white painting at its best.

Jimbuna

05-15-20, 10:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kab6c8CNZOI

em2nought

05-15-20, 10:48 AM

"Compelling evidence"

As usual my reminder that higher doses of Vitamine D should be accompanied by Vitamine K and Magnesium. Vit-K to keep calcium in the bones and not in the bloodstream, Magnesium to "acivate" Vit-D absorpption. A bit of oil, fat also is needed, at leats reocmmended, to increase the absorption rate. By all what I read I would recommend to quicklaunch the Vit D defences by taking 20 thosuand IE for two or three weeks, then halve this dose, and if you feel emotionally alarmed about that still, halve it again to 5000 after another 2-3 weeks.

In more detail I explained it already earlier, a few pages back.

Where did you get the information about how to go about this vitamin D regimen, or is that in the previous post too?

Skybird

05-15-20, 12:14 PM

Where did you get the information about how to go about this vitamin D regimen, or is that in the previous post too?
Its a condensate of various things I have read aboiut it and saw on youtube. A very few of it also is feedback from an ecotrophologist I know since university. There is much esoteric garbage, some dangerous claims on high doses beign harmless. other declare even low doses as "sky is falling" scnearios already, its not easy, some people reference to practical experience, and the values recommended vary widely - very widely! - from nation to nation and source to source. The numbers I gave are much higher than what in Germany would be given by the German nutrition society, but as I said, they are arch-consevatiove. Sweden and the Us however would consider as high and even uigher doses more easily. The US even add Vit-D to food form the shelves. The medically founded, study-founded dose reocmmendaitons imo mostly are vey conservatrive, and so: safe. But they probbaly mostly i8gnore a,ot of potentiual in good effects by staying too conservative and fearing danger too easily.

However, the dose makes the poison. Too much of anything can and will do damage.

I tried to form a responsible and safe compromise. Dr. campbell mentions somewhere a safe dose of not about 4ooo International Units, I think he still is old school there, but my tip for 5000 is not that much above that. There are gurus and also responsible doctors recommending daily doses of 40 and 50 thousand, though then with a regular blood analysis only to determine a more precise adequate dose of Vit K as well and monitor that calcium and magnesium

I would not be worried with doses not above 10-20 thousand, but would consider Vit-K and Magnesium a must with any dose above 1000. Medical therapies with Vit-D go as high as 300 thousand. I am not certain, but I seem to recall that 350 thousand is considered to be a critical treshhold that should not be passed for sure, for then you resally could get yourself into serious trouble. Many people that only take Vit D without Vit-K, and take Vit-.D by 100 or 200 thosuand per day, seem to form symptoms, problems, which mostly go away monce their blood serum gets back to normal levels again. However, calcium and blood vessel - that can lead to lasting damage.

Its hard to give just one well-fouznded number as a safe tip, thats wehy I still stayed low and try to make a reaosnable, safe, respnisble esdtmation.

In Germany you can freely buy Vit-D with up to 20 thousand per pill.

I started with 20 thousand per day, went down to 10 thousand and now 5 thousand per day.

Go to youtube. You find some good speeches and teahcing on Viutmanes ther,e and soem that obviously are only advertsiing, some by people. I tend to pick those who are doctors with practical experience and no (known) personal ties to any producing company. As I sdaid,m the range of quality is immense, as is the range in reocmmended numbers.
I would not go beyonbd 20 thosuand poer day without frequent blood analysis, to make sure your calcium levels in the blood do not go downside up :) This is the real threat there: "Hyperkalzämie". You want your calcium in your bones, not in your blood vessels. This must be taken care of. Thats why the Vit-C. Magnesium is for actually being able to make use of the Vit-D consumed. It all belongs together. Magneisum is sometime sbeign talked of as beign always harmelss, that is not true, to excessive doses can be damaging as can be a deficient manesium level. As with everything.

Remember Linus Pauling? He was excessive, 17 thousands IEs of Vit-C. Boah! After the hype in the 80s, he was condemned, and that dose probbaly in most peopel, would not only be beyond their physicoloigcal tolerance, but also would create isses like kidnes stones and more. Still, today Vit-C slowly gets rehabilitated a bit, but the daily dose will never be recommended to be that high again. Fact is that most modenr people do not follow the recommende didela wonder-super-dooper diets, may it be for time, for money, for taste and for lacking educaiton reasons. What they do in germany: always condemning anythign artifical in nutrition supplements and demanding people to eat the "ideal diet", is unrealistic. And it gets interfered with food recommendations born not out of medical advice, but ideological world views and poltical projects. Eat to save the planet, is one of them, as an exmaple. The industry, on the oithe rhjands, has its own inbterests, as has the tobacco industry.

Jimbuna

05-15-20, 12:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZWUgxV5ju4

August

05-15-20, 02:48 PM

By all what I read I would recommend to quicklaunch the Vit D defences by taking 20 thosuand IE for two or three weeks, then halve this dose, and if you feel emotionally alarmed about that still, halve it again to 5000 after another 2-3 weeks.

Quit playing doctor Skybird. You are not qualified to give medical advice.

mapuc

05-15-20, 03:21 PM

I know the American love their freedom, so you could say:

In the holly name of their freedom, they sacrifice their health.

Markus

Mr Quatro

05-15-20, 04:00 PM

I know the American love their freedom, so you could say:

In the holly name of their freedom, they sacrifice their health.

Markus

That hasn't been proven yet Markus, but the reports of retirements homes having many ill patients with Covid-19 and dormitories of foreign workers in Malaysia, Singapore and of course the cruise ship problems from Japan early on and now stacked up all over the world should be a sign to those that want to get out and party in bars or concerts or picnic together or the theater and bowling alleys much less a stadium full of screaming fans ... all of those places should be red flagged and set as off limits or they will know within just a couple of weeks if they have been bitten by the corona bug. :yep:

If sin don't get you the corona bug will :yep:

mapuc

05-15-20, 04:38 PM

That hasn't been proven yet Markus, but the reports of retirements homes having many ill patients with Covid-19 and dormitories of foreign workers in Malaysia, Singapore and of course the cruise ship problems from Japan early on and now stacked up all over the world should be a sign to those that want to get out and party in bars or concerts or picnic together or the theater and bowling alleys much less a stadium full of screaming fans ... all of those places should be red flagged and set as off limits or they will know within just a couple of weeks if they have been bitten by the corona bug. :yep:

If sin don't get you the corona bug will :yep:

The reason behind my statement, was an issue in the news at night.

Some high court in some American state had overruled a government-thing(forgot what they are called) and in a reportage from this State,
you could see a lot of people standing very close at some bar.
It was really crowded.
Which made me think-They really love their freedom-whatever it may cost.

Markus

MaDef

05-15-20, 06:14 PM

Yes we do.

Rockstar

05-15-20, 06:31 PM

The reason behind my statement, was an issue in the news at night.

Some high court in some American state had overruled a government-thing(forgot what they are called) and in a reportage from this State,
you could see a lot of people standing very close at some bar.
It was really crowded.
Which made me think-They really love their freedom-whatever it may cost.

Markus

I think a lot of people are beginning to think we have been duped by all the self proclaimed experts and talking heads. It seems this virus had making the rounds about the globe before we knew it existed. I think a vast, vast number of people world wide have been infected, recovered and were not even aware of it. Months later when it finally makes the news and panic sets in over something we didnt bother to understand. We lock down and I'll bet the virus was already on its last legs and beginning to wane. But true to form politicians like our governor is already patting himself on the back for all the lives he saved.

I too now think we over reacted. Still I'm sure most everyone will disagree with me. But that'll change once waiter brings the bill and they see the cost of this fiasco.

August

05-15-20, 06:57 PM

Which made me think-They really love their freedom-whatever it may cost.

Markus

"Give us liberty or give us death!"

http://www.theus50.com/images/state-licenses/newhampshire-license.jpg

skidman

05-16-20, 03:48 AM

Still I'm sure most everyone will disagree with me.

Well, maybe at least the 1500 casualties (last 24h) would disagree.

Jimbuna

05-16-20, 04:00 AM

Italy's government has signed a decree that will allow travel to and from the country from 3 June, as it moves to ease its coronavirus lockdown measures.

It will also allow travel between the regions - which has so far been tightly restricted - from the same day.

The move marks a major step in the country's efforts to reopen its economy after more than two months of lockdown.

Italy has one of the highest death tolls in the world, but its infection rate has fallen sharply in recent days.

More than 31,600 people have died with the virus in the country, the third highest figure behind the US and UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52687448

Far too early in my estimation.

Jimbuna

05-16-20, 04:05 AM

President Donald Trump says the US will reopen, "vaccine or no vaccine", as he announced an objective to deliver a coronavirus jab by year end.

He likened the vaccine project, dubbed "Operation Warp Speed", to the World War Two effort to produce the world's first nuclear weapons.

But Mr Trump made clear that even without a vaccine, Americans must begin to return to their lives as normal.

Many experts doubt that a coronavirus jab can be developed within a year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52685487

I know there are many divided opinions about the POTUS so best I leave it at that.

Skybird

05-16-20, 05:36 AM

We have lived with pandemics for which we foudn no vaccine and cure until today, HIV, for exmaple. The problem is HIV is not, by far not as infectous as Covid 19. You do not get HID jjust becasue somebody is breathing out or says a sentence, takes bit more to get HIV. Covid-19: meet an infected, stay int he same supermaket like him for long enough, and you are screwed.

The economy cannot stay put endlessly, that is clear. And that was never the goal with flattening the curve, the goal was to win time and to keep the number of seriously ill below a treshhold where they start to drown the health system.

Maybe some people have not thought it to the end what this means: it means we need to adapt to a way of oliving that accepts that Covid-19 is always present and will take a bite at the society constantly, always. Becasue now that easing the the parole of the moment, numbers will go up again. And 3 in 20 will become ill enough that they need to get hospitalised, they will suffer, miserably, and will fight for their lifves.

We will need to accept that Covid-19 now is a potentially omni-present witness at whatever we do and whereever we are. Each of us needs to come to terms with this uncomfortable truth. I have no answer to how to deal with this. I understand the owner of a restaurant who sees his economic existence threatened, and I have sympathy with him. But I have also sympathy with my own interest to minimise the risk for me to be exposed, you will not see me in a restaurant therefore. I know that all restaurants will die if everybody does like me. Does this morally oblige me to go there? No doubt, no, it doesn't. But its a classical dilemma, of the sort we are not used to be confronted with anymore in our wellplanned lives and comfortable Western societies. I saw this fro very early on, thats why I said very early alreaedy that the old world is dead and that we will not get back our old lives. Because its not just restaurants, its everybody who needs to accept exposing himself just to make the money for his living, in bureaus, in teams where close contact at work cannot be avoided, in closed halls and rooms with aerosols staying in the air for hours. It affects everybody.

Practice modesty and be thankful for what you have, if it is somethign that allows you to stay away and not needing to risk your health for a living. Many cannot. And there is little we can do for these. But we can be kind and understandable, letting Covid teach us a bit more of politeness and friendliness again that often was missed in the past. Many people run around and think that career or money defines their status and importance, and eveybody earning less deserving lesser politeness. They are wrong.

I expect Covid-19 becoming part of our daily disease canon, it will not go away. We will leanr soon enough in what kind of wave patterns it will stay with us. But staying it will, probbaly even beyond a vaccine. IF we get a vaccine, I think we will, but certain it is not.

I think also, like Bill Gates, who for reasons that are beyond me gets incredibly demonised over all this, that Covid-19 will be the starting shot for several big revolutions in medicine and the production of pharmaceuticals, namely vaccines, and the research done on virusses. If Covid-19 would not serve as a wakeup call there - what else would it take then...?

Take your Vitamine D (and K and Magnesium) to improve your chances in case you meet Mr. and Mrs. Bug. It might make the difference between getting the uig or not, and if you get it, it might make the difference between suffering a mild or severe form of it, Take any dose you fell comfrotable with, but for heavens sake: take at least some dose of it. Vit-C might be of use, too, but Vit D seems to be more important in this Covid 19 mess. Zinc longines may be helpful a bit, too, but this is uncertain. If not taking more than one or two longines with 5mg per, it at least cannot do damage. Avoid crowds and groups, be anti-social. Wear masks in closed compatements and shops, and that means masks that protect not just the others, but also yourself!! Wash your ahdns often, keep 8-10 meters distance outside, if you can, avoid the "exhaust" of people running, bicycling or walking in front of you, never have the wind in your face when facing somebody. These are the active things everybody of us can do. So: do them.

Skybird

05-16-20, 05:48 AM

Reflections.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/16/tech/surveillance-privacy-coronavirus-npw-intl/index.html

Mr Quatro

05-16-20, 09:04 AM

Here's a clue to how the virus gets spread ... not that we didn't already know this, but proof is in the making when it included jails and nursing homes.

The virus doesn't really care who you are it just cares that you were next in a closed environment like a jail or nursing home or cruise ship.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-are-orange-county-coronavirus-cases-rising-here-s-what-we-know/ar-BB148VbW?ocid=bingcoronaviruslinks

This is from one County in California Orange County south of LA

Of the more than 3,900 people of the county's 3.1 million residents who have had known infections of the virus,
407 individuals have been residents of skilled nursing facilities and 331 have been Orange County jail inmates.

easy to see that the people living in close proximity to each other represent almost 10%

As of Thursday, the county had reported nearly 4,000 cases and 80 deaths.
By contrast, Los Angeles County has more than 35,000 cases and more than 1,700 deaths;
Riverside County has recorded 5,400 cases and 235 deaths.

PS That barber in NY that defied the authorities on closing down has now contracted Covid-19 :oops:
Sin will bite you in the butt if your not careful :yep:

Skybird

05-16-20, 09:48 AM

Air currents, airflow. Its amazing how late they start to discuss this and realise how important this is as an infection vector. It was one of the first things that deeply worried me, from beginning on.

Breathing out, talking, as well.

This should have become common understanding already in early March, if not by experimental evidence than as a precautionary assumption to base on until proven wrong. Instead, many - even medical experts and virologists - even actively denied it...!

But here is where, in my impression, a big problem with many of those experts is: to not look at reality and see it with pragmatic eyes in the first, but instead not taking something as recommendable precautionary advice until it has been empirically proven in a study. It seems that precautionary assuming the virus to be dangerous in this or that regard, ranked very low on many experts' list. While from a theoretical-methodological standpoint I absolutely agree with that, and in an acadmeic paper I would discourage to argue that somethign is fact as long as it has not been proven. But I also see the need to deal with practical reality with life and health at risk, and this absolute refusal of assumptions about possible AND LIKELY threats is a bit like not fastening the seat belt when beginnign to drive in the car until you have evidence that getting involved in a car accident is the imminent fate of yours: sealed and proven and beyond doubt. Much of the endlessly delayed advices and recommendations we have gotten late in the media over here, may be due to this. Also, fear of decision makers to expose themselves and being called to responsibility if they rang wrong alarm bells.

mapuc

05-16-20, 11:28 AM

Some numbers from Denmark and Sweden.

Denmark(population 5,806 million)
(Information taken from 15 May-20):
Confirmed infected with Corona virus 10.858(+78 more than the day before)
Dead 543 (Zero(0)since the day before).
People who have had Corona and are now free = 9.107

Sweden(population 10,23 millions)
(Information taken from 15 May-20)
Confirmed infected with Corona virus 29.677(+ 625 more than the day before)
Dead 3.674(+117 Since the day before)
People who have had Corona and are now free = 4.971

Markus

Mr Quatro

05-16-20, 12:59 PM

Ought oh proof you can get it a second time :o

Navy aircraft carrier sailors get virus for second time

https://www.kcci.com/article/sailors-on-sidelined-navy-aircraft-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/32500129#

Five sailors on the U.S. aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy.

The resurgence of the virus in the five sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt underscores the befuddling behavior of the highly contagious virus and raises questions about how troops that test positive can be reintegrated into the military, particularly on ships.

All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two before they were allowed to go back to the ship.

mapuc

05-16-20, 01:32 PM

In a response to my latest comment, Rockstar said among others,
think we over reacted

This made me wonder..

If we take UK/Britain and look at their worst influenza season-who many got infected and how many lost their life to this virus ?
(Have tried to find information)
(Do remember-there wasn't any lock down during an influenza season)
Due to this Corona virus, there have been lock down and social distance and still more than 31.000 have died from this Corona and in lesser month than an influenza seasons

Or we can take Italy as an example.

In their worst influenza season-almost 25.000 Italian died from this virus
(Same here-no lock down)

I can't say if we have over reacted or not.
I could have misunderstod the statistic.

Markus

ikalugin

05-16-20, 01:51 PM

Some interesting updates from Moscow regional government:
https://www.sobyanin.ru/koronavirus-novaya-programma-issledovaniy-immuniteta
(https://www.sobyanin.ru/koronavirus-novaya-programma-issledovaniy-immuniteta)https://www.mos.ru/news/item/74134073/
Moscow mayor claims:
- lifting lockdown early opens up Moscow for the second wave
- they are doing over 40k PCR tests daily but this is not enough to get a good understanding on who is infected
- with IgM and IgG markers you can test people who either have the infection or who have immunity
- by the end of May there would be 200k daily tests of this type using automatic machines
- now (as in mid May) they are going to do 70k tests every 3 days using a randomised lottery system
- weekly stats would be published 2k people already tested in the first batch (testing started yesterday)

Jimbuna

05-16-20, 02:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKsVd4M1pK8

mapuc

05-16-20, 03:55 PM

There are times when I wish I had an education in some specific fields.

Lately I wish I had an education in Psychology.

Why ?

Since start of this Corona and our governments plan on this smartphone apps to track infected people, which they want their citizens to download and use.
People have protested against this mostly on FB.

Some weeks ago I read a comment in a friends bulletin, where he wrote
Never will I let the Danish Stasi monitor every step I take.

Few days later I could see same person had put a notice on FB.
Friend has (forgot what you call this)but this friends friend had "logged" on some fitness or was it at some restaurant(there was a picture for some map)

What !? He don't want the Danish government, who have to follow strict regulation, track him, but do not hesitate to give all information to FB, who gladly would give this information to third and fourth part.

I don't understand people.

Markus

MaDef

05-16-20, 07:24 PM

What !? He don't want the Danish government, who have to follow strict regulation, track him, but do not hesitate to give all information to FB, who gladly would give this information to third and fourth part.

I don't understand people.

Markus Does FB have the ability to, take his property or throw him in jail? There's your difference.

Think of it this way, FB has only been around for 16 yrs, whereas "governments" have been around for a couple of thousand and every one of them has had their own abuse of power scandals. :up:

Skybird

05-16-20, 08:07 PM

Moonlight

05-17-20, 04:30 AM

Coronavirus pre-adapted to human transmission, if this is true China has some explaining to do.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11641035/coronavirus-animals-wuhan-market-killer-bug/

Jimbuna

05-17-20, 05:07 AM

Former President Barack Obama addresses the US high school class of 2020, marking graduation in lockdown.
He also criticises his successor, President Donald Trump, for his handling of the pandemic response.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson acknowledges frustration over the "complex" easing of England's lockdown.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer calls for a unified approach from the four UK nations to relaxing lockdown.

Eurovision stars past and present joined a show on Saturday, the night this year's cancelled contest would have taken place.

Italy is taking a "calculated risk" in easing its lockdown measures, PM Giuseppe Conte admits.

More than 311,000 people globally have now died and more than 4.6 million are infected - Johns Hopkins University.

Jimbuna

05-17-20, 05:14 AM

UK Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove has said he is "confident that children and teachers will be safe" when returning to schools in England adding that the reopening would be “staged and careful”.

Spain, one of the world's worst-hit countries by coronavirus, has released its latest figures which show its daily death toll dropped below 100 for the first time in two months.

Germany's Bundesliga resumed on Saturday, becoming the first major European league to return to action since lockdown restrictions began.

Religious services have resumed in parts of Australia seven weeks after lockdown measures were introduced.

Kenya has closed its land borders with Tanzania and Somalia except for cargo transport. Testing for the coronavirus at border posts will be compulsory for all drivers.

Qatar has made the wearing of face masks compulsory, with anyone defying the order facing a jail term of up to three years or a fine of up to $55,000 (£45,000) for those who repeatedly fail to cover up.

Jimbuna

05-17-20, 05:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Kl-PqDBlI

Skybird

05-17-20, 06:40 AM

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30314-5/fulltext

Interpretation

Although patients in our study presented with predominately mild, non-specific symptoms, infectiousness before or on the day of symptom onset was substantial. Additionally, the incubation period was often very short and false-negative tests occurred. These results suggest that although the outbreak was controlled, successful long-term and global containment of COVID-19 could be difficult to achieve.

Skybird

05-17-20, 06:51 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Kl-PqDBlI
I agree with all their five points, and to support Taiwan and the shameful role of the WHO on Taiwain I have pointed out myself. I just fera that the eU and especially the Germans will no follow and will be "concerned" and will avoid conflict and will want to convince by cooperation and appeasement. The German goverment alraeyd send crystalclear signals of how indferent and conflict-avoiding it will react to China, although behidn the curtain a BND report shiws that alraedy in early January the BND has warned of China, but the govenrment decided to beleive the blatant lies fro China instead. The BND says that many weeks got wasted due to the Chinese lies and that many people lost their health, also lives, due to the Chinese lies.

Still this criminal regime acts and behaves arrognatly as if it stands above the rest of mankind. Which is exactly the Chiense long-lastign self-understanding, its where the german term "das Reich der Mitte" originally stems from: the power at th centre, that term means.

Add to the list of Chinese lying ansd fraud that the equipment and the amsks they sent often are cheap, useless copies and unsuited quality that is not fit to do what it is supposed to do, and that they instead forge quality seals and tehcncial certifications.

China is not our friend, and it cannot be trusted. it is high time that especially the Germans amongst the Europeans, but the other Europeans as well, finally understand this. It has come to dominate, not to share. And it can only be meet and made stopping by force. Economic force, potlical force, fincial force where possible, and if needed: military force.

Stop playing nice with China. They betray us whereever they can. Chinese traders and merchants are famous and much dispised for projecting this policy in the far east since centuries. And now they do it globally.

Skybird

05-17-20, 07:26 AM

^ Adding to the above: why Taiwan won't have a seat at the table. China will simply sit the crisis out. Western politics know no longterm strategy, they are only serving and base on the short term memory. And sometimes live shorter than even that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52661181

August

05-17-20, 10:40 AM

Might be more politics than health care related but it is pertinent to disease related death counts:

The state of New York omitted coronavirus deaths from nursing homes and adult care facilities after it was revealed that a significant amount of individuals were dying from the virus in those types of residences.
The New York Department of Health admitted that its most recent reporting does not fully account for the known coronavirus deaths among nursing home residents, according to the Daily Caller News Foundation (https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/15/new-york-coronavirus-reporting-nursing-home-deaths-undercounting/).
In early May, reports from the state started to leave out long-term care residents who lost their lives from the coronavirus in hospitals, and New York still leads the nation in nursing home deaths, with 5,433 as of Wednesday.
The New York Department of Health confirmed it was disclosing nursing home deaths regardless of whether the patient died there or in a hospital until around April 28. But the department made a “subtle” change around May 3, according to web archives, and now only reports deaths if the patient died while physically present at a facility.
New York’s coronavirus tracker “currently does not include out of facility deaths,” Jill Montag, an NYSDOH spokeswoman, said. “Deaths of nursing home and adult care facility residents that occurred at hospitals is accounted for in the overall fatality data on our COVID-19 tracker.”
“In other words, New York’s nursing home and adult care facility coronavirus deaths tracker omits any individuals who contracted coronavirus while living at a long-term care facility but died in a hospital,” the Daily Caller article states.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/new-york-admits-purposely-undercounting-nursing-home-deaths-after-changing-reporting-rules

vienna

05-18-20, 02:59 AM

Well, it seems a whole lot of the "substance" of those flailing about claims about a possible accidental or deliberate release of Covid-19 from the Wuhan lab and who reiterated claims made in shadowy "reports" has been proven to be false, or, as The Daily Beast puts it:

A shocking report suggesting that the coronavirus was “release[d from] the Wuhan Institute of Virology” in China is now circulating in U.S. military and intelligence circles and on Capitol Hill. But there’s a critical flaw in the report, a Daily Beast analysis reveals: Some of its most seemingly persuasive evidence is false—provably false.

Not just false -- provably false...

...and The Daily Beast does prove it false in great detail:

Busted: Pentagon Contractors’ Report on ‘Wuhan Lab’ Origins of Virus Is Bogus --

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-contractors-report-on-wuhan-lab-origins-of-coronavirus-is-bogus

Just how badly the MACE Report was cobbled together is astounding; it appears they really didn't think anyone else would either question their "findings" or make an effort to verify them; the level of hubris of the authors of the report to actually believe they would actually get away with it is matched only by the depth of their stupidity in even trying to pull their con...

BTW, a segment of the above article also deals with another alleged "proof" much touted by the Right and the conspiracy crowd, the so-called Australia Dossier; based on the above article it has about as much verity as the Mace Report; I have little doubt Trump and his minions will still try to use the discredited "proofs" to support their efforts to save Trump's flailing and failing reelection bid...

Its situations like the Mace Report, the Australian Dossier, and any and all manner of tin-hat conspiracy lunacy that detracts from the true facts about the current pandemic and hinders efforts to seek a resolution of the current crisis...

Things go a whole lot easier when people try pulling ideas from their brains instead of their butts...

<O>

Jimbuna

05-18-20, 04:28 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4Fa5EyNzE

Jimbuna

05-18-20, 04:30 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAUdWsFNTtQ

Jimbuna

05-18-20, 04:32 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRd7TqqIxzg

Onkel Neal

05-18-20, 07:24 AM

Well, it seems a whole lot of the "substance" of those flailing about claims about a possible accidental or deliberate release of Covid-19 from the Wuhan lab and who reiterated claims made in shadowy "reports" has been proven to be false, or, as The Daily Beast puts it:

Not just false -- provably false...

...and The Daily Beast does prove it false in great detail:

Busted: Pentagon Contractors’ Report on ‘Wuhan Lab’ Origins of Virus Is Bogus --

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-contractors-report-on-wuhan-lab-origins-of-coronavirus-is-bogus

Just how badly the MACE Report was cobbled together is astounding; it appears they really didn't think anyone else would either question their "findings" or make an effort to verify them; the level of hubris of the authors of the report to actually believe they would actually get away with it is matched only by the depth of their stupidity in even trying to pull their con...

BTW, a segment of the above article also deals with another alleged "proof" much touted by the Right and the conspiracy crowd, the so-called Australia Dossier; based on the above article it has about as much verity as the Mace Report; I have little doubt Trump and his minions will still try to use the discredited "proofs" to support their efforts to save Trump's flailing and failing reelection bid...

Its situations like the Mace Report, the Australian Dossier, and any and all manner of tin-hat conspiracy lunacy that detracts from the true facts about the current pandemic and hinders efforts to seek a resolution of the current crisis...

Things go a whole lot easier when people try pulling ideas from their brains instead of their butts...

You seem heavily invested in discrediting any suspicion that China may be culpable in releasing this virus.

Jimbuna

05-18-20, 07:56 AM

The WHO's decision-making body is meeting as members call for an investigation into the handling of the pandemic.

China's President Xi defends his country's response and says review can happen after virus "under control"

More European countries are relaxing lockdown restrictions on Monday, with bars and restaurants reopening in Italy.

The UK adds loss of smell or taste to the list of coronavirus symptoms people should look out for.

Japan enters first recession since 2015, with 0.9% GDP drop in first quarter.

The mayor of Brazil's biggest city, Sao Paulo, warns its health system is close to collapse.

Globally, there are 4.7 million confirmed cases and 315,000 deaths.

Jimbuna

05-18-20, 10:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIA77I-bgBk

Mr Quatro

05-18-20, 12:39 PM

The WHO's decision-making body is meeting as members call for an investigation into the handling of the pandemic.

I hope they come up with the right answer :yep:

The UK adds loss of smell or taste to the list of coronavirus symptoms people should look out for.

OMG my bathroom doesn't smell anymore maybe I have the coronavirus :o

The mayor of Brazil's biggest city, Sao Paulo, warns its health system is close to collapse.

It's really getting bad in Brazil :yep:

Coronavirus spreads to Brazil’s rainforest areas, infecting Amazonian native communities

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-17/butte-county-pastor-who-led-mothers-day-service-discloses-church-exposure-to-covid-19

In the remote Amazon community of Betania, Tikuna tribe members suspect the coronavirus arrived this month after some returned from a two-hour boat trip down the Solimoes River to pick up their government benefit payments.

vienna

05-18-20, 01:25 PM

You seem heavily invested in discrediting any suspicion that China may be culpable in releasing this virus.

Not at all. I have neither said that they are culpable or not culpable; and, upon presentation of definitive, verifiable, and/or provable evidence, I am open to a judgement either way; there are too many shadows of doubt in what is being bandied about currently by both sides. I am just pointing out how so many of the "proofs" and "smoking guns" touted by the conspiracy nutters and regurgitated as "fact(s)" by the Oval Office have really little or no substance or truth when held up to the light of day and seriously scrutinized. I have always made a point of advising a course of sort of "trust, but verify"; don't just take what is presented as fact, even if it seems to come from 'trusted", 'official', or 'informed' sources; go out and do the homework, check to see if what is being presented is indeed whole cloth or just a tissue of gibberish. I had my doubts about the MACE Report when I saw the "document" itself as posted on the Web: it is little more than a seeming PowerPoint presentation and a rather amateurish effort at that...

Maybe China did or didn't accidentally or deliberately release Covid-19, I just don't see any definitive, untainted proof either way; one thing is certain, I do consider the source of the proffered "proof" when it is presented; Pompeo, and Trump, both declared there was substantial evidence and proof to support the White House claims of China's quite possibly deliberate release of Covid-19 just prior to the release of the MACE Report; if the MACE Report forms the bulk of their "proof", they are indeed pulling ideas out of their butts; as a side note, in the days after the Pompeo/Trump assertions, aside from the MACE Report, not a single shred of verifiable, provable evidence has been presented to back up their claims and/or innuendos, so where is their evidence? We're still waiting and still not ready to drink their Kool-Aid...

So, anyone got anything definitive, verifiable, and/or provable either way about the Wuhan Lab and its involvement in the Covid-19 outbreak? Don't know about anyone else, but pronouncements by a well-known lying sack and his minions simply don't make the cut in the search for the truth...

<O>

vienna

05-18-20, 01:31 PM

I hope they come up with the right answer :yep:

...

The right answer or the truth? There is no "right" answer in any situation unless you are seeking a specific outcome to suit one's perceived needs. If you are seeking truth, then it is the truth that must be sought and found, not a subjective "right" answer...

Since you brought it up, maybe you can tell us what you perceive as the "right" answer in this case of the Covid-19 inquiries...

<O>

em2nought

05-18-20, 02:23 PM

Dossiers are only accepted as gospel when the mention anything bad pertaining to Donald J. Trump. :03:

Mr Quatro

05-18-20, 02:45 PM

The right answer or the truth? There is no "right" answer in any situation unless you are seeking a specific outcome to suit one's perceived needs. If you are seeking truth, then it is the truth that must be sought and found, not a subjective "right" answer...

Since you brought it up, maybe you can tell us what you perceive as the "right" answer in this case of the Covid-19 inquiries...

<O>

I'm not in the mood for a word fight today ... I just had lunch and now I have to take my nap :yep:

Rockstar

05-18-20, 02:46 PM

I prefer the right answer, the problem with the truth is it could lead to a war.

Skybird

05-18-20, 03:07 PM

I prefer the right answer, the problem with the truth is it could lead to a war.
A reason, no: a demand for war it would only be if proof is found that China unleashed this pleague intentionally, for such an action would itself already have been the first attack committed in that war. I doubt it was intentional. If it were like that, I would insist that China must indeed be . most likely only militarily - forced to cut back its role on the world, for it then woudk have dekksntrated that it is an aggressive and lethal threat to all mankind and all the world. Yes, it would be a reason to declare war on China.

I earlier considered the lab-escape theory possible, even pposted it, then some time later decided against it due to findings proclaimed by Western scientists. I can change my opinion again if I see the need. But only when I found the "evidence" for the new lab-escape claim convincing. So far I only see myself unable to assess it, I lack the background knoweldge and all info to really fully understand what they claim, and a smoking gun is not being presented, as I understand it.

I am also not forgetting that not only China has motives to deny the accusations, but that the Donaldinarium also has motives to raise such accusations, independently from truth and evidence. A clown jumping repeatedly on the stage and yelling "Fire!", is being laughed about form first act one, and later gets just yawns since the joke becomes boring. If then he appears again and yells "Fire!" and means it serious for the backstage is already in flames, nobody will believe him anymore.

mapuc

05-18-20, 03:44 PM

Some thoughts on those accusations

Who shall investigate this ?
USA ?
EU ?
UN ?
WHO ?
Another organization ?

The question is, is there a 110 % independent organization who can take on this task-investigate if China have released this Corona virus on purpose or if it was due to weak control at this lab, which made it possible for the virus getting free or was it as many scientist claim it came from a wild life market(Bat)

Next question:
how eager would the Chinese be on cooperating with this organization ?

Next question(Which is a what-if)

What if China had released it.
Are we prepared to offer millions if not billions of innocent life a war ?
I'm not a coward-but we must be 200 % sure.

And it will be USA entirely alone against China. Maybe UK will join.

EU and its leader will do anything to prevent such a development.
They would rather forgive and forgive and.....

Markus

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 04:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27AZI3ArGHQ

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 04:33 AM

The number of people claiming unemployment benefit in the UK soared last month, rising by 856,500 to 2.097m

Work and pensions secretary tells BBC that Britain 'can cope' with unemployment surge.

Donald Trump renews attack on World Health Organization, calling it a "puppet of China"

The US, the WHO's biggest donor, has already suspended its funding of the group.

The attack came after the WHO said an independent review would happen as soon as possible.

Mr Trump also says he is taking the unproven virus drug hydroxychloroquine.

France and Germany propose €500bn recovery fund for EU countries.

Police and protesters clash in Chilean capital Santiago, which has been in lockdown.

There have been 4.8m confirmed cases globally, with 320,000 deaths.

Mr Quatro

05-19-20, 08:40 AM

Donald Trump renews attack on World Health Organization, calling it a "puppet of China"

The US, the WHO's biggest donor, has already suspended its funding of the group.

The attack came after the WHO said an independent review would happen as soon as possible.

Mr Trump also says he is taking the unproven virus drug hydroxychloroquine.

President Trump can't be wrong all of the time ... he has advisors that give him inside information that we don't get. I feel sorry for him ... no president has ever faced a challenge as big as this one.

I pray for him everyday :yep:

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 08:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo-9oodiCP0

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 09:16 AM

NHS England has announced another 174 coronavirus deaths, bringing the total number of confirmed deaths in hospitals in England to 24,913.

In Scotland, a further 29 people have died with the virus. There were another 17 deaths in Wales, while seven more people died in Northern Ireland.

Portugal has reopened cafes, restaurants and many more shops, in a new phase of easing restrictions.

In Sweden almost half of all those whose deaths are linked to Covid-19 were residents of care homes, according to figures given to the BBC by the Swedish public health agency.

The World Health Assembly has agreed to an independent investigation into the response to the global coronavirus pandemic.
At the agency's annual ministerial meeting, none of the WHO's 194 member states - which include the United States - raised objections to the resolution brought by the European Union on behalf of more than 100 countries including Australia, China and Japan.

Qatar has confirmed 12 cases of coronavirus in a prison, but has denied suggestions of a more serious outbreak.

The Czech Republic has reported its largest daily increase in cases for over a month with 111 new infections. The R rate is now 1.2 and 297 people have died. The country is now stockpiling medical equipment, to be ready for a possible second wave of the virus.

Germany has reported 72 more deaths, bringing its official total to 8,007. Its R rate is 0.9 - a rate above 1.0 means that on average a person can infect more than one other. And for 10 days in a row the respected Robert Koch Institute has reported fewer than 1,000 new infections daily.

Coronavirus infections in Poland may start to fall within a week, the country’s Health Minister Lukasz Szumowski says.

Skybird

05-19-20, 10:07 AM

Germany has reported 72 more deaths, bringing its official total to 8,007. Its R rate is 0.9 - a rate above 1.0 means that on average a person can infect more than one other. And for 10 days in a row the respected Robert Koch Institute has reported fewer than 1,000 new infections daily.

However they changed the formula of calculating their R rate, which leaves a bit of a Chinese scent on the tongue... The R value was climbing from almost 0.7 to 0.8, 0.9, 1.0. 1.1, 1.13 and for one eveningone virologist even talked of a value of 1.3, refering to internal numbers of the RKI. This was when the RKI (which is not that much respected over here at all anymore, it has messed up too much of its information policy and it is not the first time they fialed there) decided to replace the old caluclatio with a new one, and immediately the R value was much lower again.

Meanwhile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xc5l1LmYOI

I wonder who he is talking about... LOL

Mr Quatro

05-19-20, 10:40 AM

If it takes two weeks to show up that you have Covid-19 and caught it from someone that didn't have any of the virus symptoms ... How can they trace it to where you got it?

We may have to go through all of this again or at least a partial shut down of bars and theaters and bowling alley's and sports places, and theme parks.

Memorial Day is May 25th :o

Two more weeks from today is June 2nd :hmmm:

Two weeks from Memorial Day is June 8th

Platapus

05-19-20, 11:00 AM

If it takes two weeks to show up that you have Covid-19 and caught it from someone that didn't have any of the virus symptoms ... How can they trace it to where you got it?

That's a great question. Unfortunately, the answer is complicated. But it uses probability and inference networks. I tried to write a simple example but it turned out some complicated that even I could not understand my own example.

It is not as simple as determining that person A gave COVID10 to person b, who later gave it to person c. The best we can, absent of any type of viral identification is to be able to determine that "It is more likely that person x was infected by person q than it is that person x was not infected by person q".

One of the many problems is that people can be infected with SARSCOV-2 and never develop the disease COVID19 We also don't know how man people are infected by the SARS COV2 virus and only develop minor symptoms of COVID19 to the point that it is never reported.

We also don't know about how being exposed to multiple sources of SARS COV2 virus affects how a person gets infected.

Bottom line is that absent of any type of virus ID, there is no way to determine, with no uncertainty, that a specific person infected another specific person with SARS COV2 and that person developed COVID19 from that specific exposure.

At this point, I am not sure we understand if there is any difference between being exposed to SARS COV2 and being infected with SARS COV2. Their may be people who carry the virus and never develop the disease, but may be able to spread the disease.

Unfortunately, this still a lot we don't know about this virus.

If people are looking for a quick solution, I am afraid they will be disappointed. I am grateful that we have scientists all over the world working on this issue.

skidman

05-19-20, 01:35 PM

This was when the RKI (which is not that much respected over here at all anymore, it has messed up too much of its information policy and it is not the first time they fialed there) decided to replace the old caluclatio with a new one, and immediately the R value was much lower again.

BS. The data used for the old nowcast method is still available on the RKI website. So you can compute the old R values (Can you do it? I don't think so) and compare it to the new values. The new method covers a bigger timeframe in order to eliminate oscillation on weekends, bank holidays and so on. That's all. No need to play that paranoid game again.

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 01:43 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxm7PE52cGg

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 01:44 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4URofJ86U54

Jimbuna

05-19-20, 02:08 PM

UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak says the country is facing "a severe recession the likes of which we have not seen"

The number of people claiming unemployment benefit in the UK soared last month, rising by 856,500 to 2.097m

Daily global emissions of carbon dioxide fell by 17% at the peak of the shutdown, scientists say.

US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin says the American economy risks "permanent damage" if the lockdown continues.

WHO member states have agreed to an independent inquiry into the response to the coronavirus pandemic.

There have been 4.8m confirmed cases globally, with 320,000 deaths.

skidman

05-19-20, 02:51 PM

I pray for him everyday :yep:

Seems you are not praying hard/long enough for him. The numbers are still horrifying.

Please don't get me wrong, I have deep respect for religious people, because I grew up in a very religious (calvinistic) family. Took me 16 years to find out how much fear and pain had been put into me and another 25 years to get rid of it.

MaDef

05-19-20, 04:10 PM

We may have to go through all of this again or at least a partial shut down of bars and theaters and bowling alley's and sports places, and theme parks.

Why? The "curve" was flattened, the medical profession is getting their needed gear and supplies and testing capacity is increasing on a regular basis.

mapuc

05-19-20, 04:17 PM

Here in Denmark the government and its supporting parties have said

In case the R0 goes up from today's 0.7 the will be local or regional shut downs

Then some journalist said-This does not prevent an infected person to take a trip to a neighbour town where there isn't a lock down.

Markus

skidman

05-19-20, 04:49 PM

Then some journalist said-This does not prevent an infected person to take a trip to a neighbour town where there isn't a lock down.

True. COV-19 asks a lot from us. We should behave responsibly. It's just like drinking and driving. The only difference: We all have seen/read in the paper what can happen if someone does not obey and kills people in an accident. Corona is different. Everybody makes their own calculation: How old am I? Am I suffering from hypertension, excess weight, am I a smoker? How about my partner? How about my parents? How about my kids? And believe me: The typical Subsim user is a elderly (white) man, on other boards there are other posts. Posts we would consider hostile, to say the least.

Skybird

05-20-20, 05:04 AM

Why? The "curve" was flattened, the medical profession is getting their needed gear and supplies and testing capacity is increasing on a regular basis.
:/\\!!

Jimbuna

05-20-20, 07:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uATMbGK__Tg

Jimbuna

05-20-20, 07:46 AM

The number of people in Brazil who have died with Covid-19 jumps by 1,179 - a daily record.
President Jair Bolsonaro has downplayed the risks, even though Brazil has the world's third highest number of infections.

In the UK, ministers face pressure to reconsider plans to reopen English primary schools to some pupils from 1 June.

The World Bank warns 60m more people could be pushed into "extreme poverty"

There have been 4.9m confirmed cases worldwide, with almost 325,000 deaths.

Jimbuna

05-20-20, 07:59 AM

Iran’s president has said the country is “on the verge of curbing” its coronavirus outbreak, despite recording more than 2,000 new cases for the third consecutive day.
A further 64 deaths and 2,346 infections were confirmed on Wednesday, the country’s health ministry said.
In total, the country has reported 7,183 deaths and 126,949 cases since the outbreak began in February, but foreign experts believe the true figures could be higher.

Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has asked parliament to extend the country's state of emergency for another two weeks, drawing fierce criticism from opposition parties.

Local officials in Russia's Dagestan region have described the situation there as a "catastrophe", with reports of a rising death toll and serious shortages of equipment.

Police in the Philippines have raided a small illegal hospital and a pharmacy that were secretly treating Chinese nationals suspected of having the coronavirus, the Associated Press reports, quoting police officials.

Greece is expected to announce plans later that would allow in visitors from other European countries as early as 1 July. The move comes as EU tourism ministers meet this afternoon to discuss how countries can reopen their borders for the summer holidays.

Spain has made it mandatory for everyone over the age of six to wear a face mask in places such as shops, restaurants and public transport, and outdoors as well if social distancing isn’t possible. The rules come into effect on Thursday.

Russia has announced a record number of daily deaths, jumping by 135 in the past 24 hours to a total of 2,972. The country has the second highest number of confirmed cases in the world - surpassing 300,000 on Wednesday - and some believe the true death toll is much higher.

Authorities in the Netherlands say it’s “plausible” a worker at a mink farm caught the virus from one of the animals. Research is under way to confirm the link.

Mr Quatro

05-20-20, 11:59 AM

Seems you are not praying hard/long enough for him. The numbers are still horrifying.

Please don't get me wrong, I have deep respect for religious people, because I grew up in a very religious (calvinistic) family. Took me 16 years to find out how much fear and pain had been put into me and another 25 years to get rid of it.

That's okay skidman it's not for everyone, but remember prayer is seeking God's perfect will ... God is not bound to doing things our way. :hmmm:

Now on to the virus of the year the coronavirus ... what if another calamity comes upon us during this one?

We (meaning our country and yours) probably couldn't handle two impossible situations at the same time :o

mapuc

05-20-20, 12:18 PM

92000 Dead !!?

A figure which is hard to embrace.

In less than 3 month.

With USA opening more and more I fear the numbers will be more than double in about 3 month from now.

Same goes here in Europe.

Markus

Platapus

05-20-20, 02:11 PM

I was not believing the predictions of 100K dead in the US by 1 June. I am believing it now. :(

August

05-20-20, 02:23 PM

I was not believing the predictions of 100K dead in the US by 1 June. I am believing it now. :(

But how many of them actually died from the virus?

Skybird

05-20-20, 02:25 PM

but remember by praying I seek my god's perfect will ... In my belief my god is not bound to doing things my way. :hmmm:

Corrected that for you, to make it both more precise, and sounding less patronizing towards those not sharing your belief. :03:

AVGWarhawk

05-20-20, 02:31 PM

But how many of them actually died from the virus?

Does it make any difference?

Skybird

05-20-20, 02:32 PM

Known new infections in Germany have doubled since Monday, from 400 on Monday over 500 yesterday to 800+ today. Tomorrow is holiday in Germany, and it will be a traditional male-drinks-too-much-beer-kind of holiday, with sunny weather and temps 25-30°C.

I dispise father's day, its as if all chimps from the zoos have a free day out.

August

05-20-20, 02:34 PM

Does it make any difference?

Not if you're a Democrat Governor ordering Covid patients to be sent into Nursing Homes.

skidman

05-20-20, 03:03 PM

Known new infections in Germany have doubled since Monday, from 400 on Monday over 500 yesterday to 800+ today.

And You know that the new infection numbers have followed that pattern for a couple of weeks now. Low values on Mondays (reduced numbers of tests during the weekend), a slight increase from day to day till Friday, followed by a sharp decrease again. Exactly the same pattern week after week, with the rolling average showing a slight decrease since April 15th.

Todays R values: R(old) = 0.88; R(7days/new) = 0.87

Stop panicking!

Tomorrow is holiday in Germany, and it will be a traditional male-drinks-too-much-beer-kind of holiday, with sunny weather and temps 25-30°C.

I dispise father's day, its as if all chimps from the zoos have a free day out.

Yeah, whatever. I'll raise a glass to your health.

mapuc

05-20-20, 03:09 PM

And now I can't remember what they use to say here in the news when they tell us how many have died since day before.

Something with

People who have died within 30 days after a positive testresult will be classified as dead directly or indirectly from Covid-19.

How many of those Americans have died directly or indirectly from Covid-19 does these statistic not tell us.

Nor do other statistic

Markus

vienna

05-20-20, 03:12 PM

Not if you're a Democrat Governor ordering Covid patients to be sent into Nursing Homes.

...or not if your a GOP lying sack president who is more concerned an actual count will make his "numbers" look bad if too many actual deaths are reported; I mean, after all, he seems to be obsessed with the ratings of his "updates" at the press conferences:

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Trump-Coronavirus-Ratings-by-Rick-McKee-CagleCartoons.com-.jpg?w=620

Consider this: the actual probability is there are more deaths than have actually been reported since there are strong indications Covid-19 has been in the US earlier than originally suspected and many deaths in the earlier time period attributed to other causes may have been, in fact, directly related to Covid-19 or precipitated by the virus...

BTW, shouldn't the virus crisis already be over? Didn't the "highly stable genius" declare the virus would be gone by May 15th? I'm looking at the calendar and its 20 May and people are still getting sick and people are still dying. I guess he was wrong...

...like he is and has been about so many, many things...

...I mean, its not like he's playing around with people's lives or that his actions contribute to the unnecessary harm and death of US citizens...

...after all, what have got to lose...?...

With any luck, and God's blessing, we'll lose The Giant Orange Idiot Liar...

<O>

mapuc

05-20-20, 03:22 PM

As mentioned in the headlines.
Covid-19 is not just another flu

The researchers say the conservative estimate of 20 percent of the US population becoming infected by the end of this year could result in the number of deaths climbing to between 350,000 and 1.2 million. However, they were quick to add that these projections are subject to change depending on the public health response to the ongoing crisis.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/its-official-covid19-is-not-just-another-flu-/?fbclid=IwAR1u66aayHW4VffhaMmBZeYXWRuUuZ-hNPZa60Gi7Z7GbCMn5JhAck3LGzs

Markus

August

05-20-20, 04:08 PM

As mentioned in the headlines.
Covid-19 is not just another flu

Then neither was the Spanish Flu.

August

05-20-20, 05:21 PM

'Mass casualty incident': Over 600 doctors sign letter warning Trump of dangers of continued lockdowns

Over 600 doctors signed a letter urging President Trump to end the nationwide coronavirus shutdowns and referred to orders issued by states keeping businesses closed as a “mass casualty incident” with devastating consequences.
The letter points out the negative consequences that doctors have observed since state governments started issuing their stay-at-home orders, including patients missing checkups with doctors, increases in substance abuse and alcohol abuse, and negative financial implications, according to Fox News.
"We are alarmed at what appears to be the lack of consideration for the future health of our patients," the letter said. "The downstream health effects ... are being massively under-estimated and under-reported. This is an order of magnitude error."
“In medical terms, the shutdown was a mass casualty incident,” the letter continued. "The millions of casualties of a continued shutdown will be hiding in plain sight, but they will be called alcoholism, homelessness, suicide, heart attack, stroke, or kidney failure. In youths it will be called financial instability, unemployment, despair, drug addiction, unplanned pregnancies, poverty, and abuse.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mass-casualty-incident-over-600-doctors-sign-letter-warning-trump-of-dangers-of-continued-lockdowns

em2nought

05-21-20, 01:03 AM

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mass-casualty-incident-over-600-doctors-sign-letter-warning-trump-of-dangers-of-continued-lockdowns

I know I'm depressed, but that might be due to my business partner(seems more like I'm his slave) being in town hopefullly only until June more so than due to the virus. :hmmm:

vienna

05-21-20, 01:12 AM

A bit of background on the above referenced letter and the origins and backers of the letter effort:

Trump allies lining up doctors to prescribe rapid reopening --

http://liber.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2020/05/20/Trump-allies-lining-up-doctors-rapid-reopening-pandemic-businesses/stories/202005200079

Republican political operatives are recruiting “extremely pro-Trump” doctors to go on television to prescribe reviving the U.S. economy as quickly as possible, without waiting to meet safety benchmarks proposed by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.

The plan was discussed in a May 11 conference call with a senior staffer for the Trump reelection campaign organized by CNP Action, an affiliate of the GOP-aligned Council for National Policy. A leaked recording of the hourlong call was provided to The Associated Press by the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog group.

CNP Action is part of the Save Our Country Coalition, an alliance of conservative think tanks and political committees formed in late April to end state lockdowns implemented in response to the pandemic. Other members of the coalition include the FreedomWorks Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council and Tea Party Patriots.

It should also be pointed out there is no indication in the letter of the signatories field of expertise and/or specialization; the letter doesn't really tell you if the signatories have any real educated knowledge of or experience in virology, contagious diseases, or epidemiology; in fact, the designation D.O., which a good many of the signers use, is used by chiropractors; those with F.A.A.P. are pediatricians; I checked on some of those with just M.D. after their names and found all sorts of doctors, ranging from orthopedists to non-specialists; some even have D.D.S. after their names, a designation used by dentists; the letter seems to rely solely on volume rather than substance when it comes to those signing the letter; indeed, the whole exercise, based on how it was cobbled together and the way signatories were sought roundly demonstrates political leanings and loyalties were very much more highly valued over any actual expertise in the pertinent medical fields necessary in dealing with a pandemic...

Its sort of like taking the advice of a chiropractor in treating a cardiac condition, or seeking the counsel of a dentist to treat a serious viral infection; just because they have M.D. after their name, it doesn't mean they are the right or qualified M.D. to treat your severe diseases...

It always pays to actually find out the facts behind the story...

<O>

Jimbuna

05-21-20, 06:09 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVg8opQkQXc

Jimbuna

05-21-20, 06:11 AM

The number of confirmed cases since the outbreak began passes 5m

The number of people with Covid-19 who have died is 328,000 - Johns Hopkins University tracker.

The UK is running out of time to set up a "track and trace" system, warns the NHS Confederation.

Trials of two anti-malarial drugs to see if they can prevent infection begin in the UK.

Brazil authorises the same drugs - chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine - to treat Covid-19

Jimbuna

05-21-20, 09:15 AM

In the UK, 338 people with coronavirus died on Wednesday, according to the Department for Health.

That takes the UK's total to 36,042 deaths.

The true figure for total deaths is likely to be higher as not everyone is tested.

Meanwhile, 128,340 tests were carried out on Wednesday, taking the total number of tests up to 3,090,566.

Scotland will reopen all schools from 11 August, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says.

The number of Americans seeking unemployment benefits rises to 38.6m - almost a quarter of the workforce.

A two-day-old baby dies with coronavirus in South Africa - one of the world's youngest victims of the virus.

The number of confirmed cases worldwide since the outbreak began passes five million.

More than 328,000 people have died with Covid-19, and 1.9 million have recovered, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Rockstar

05-21-20, 10:50 AM

Listening solely to the medical 'experts' have set on us on a course of self destruction. Massive tax hikes are inevitable, inflation, unemployment, homelessness, poverty, higher suicide rates, starvation all stand a pretty good chance of far surpassing any damage caused by COVID-19. Lets not forget printing trillions out of thin air to prop it all up.

We better find a happy median between COVID-19 and economy real quick because it all may come crashing down fairly soon.

Jimbuna

05-21-20, 11:53 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr70snfnMGw

Mr Quatro

05-21-20, 01:14 PM

Fox channel was playing in the background while watching the above video about wearing mask and how they are of a large benefit if you don't want to catch the corona virus.

The scroll had the words "Trump does not want to wear a mask when he visits the Ford Motor Company in Detroit" with his picture on the screen saying, "I don't know if I will wear a mask or not for my visit to the Ford plant"

I love him, but it's just plain simple math, "Wear a mask" :yep:

Jimbuna

05-21-20, 01:17 PM

Matt Hancock leads the UK's daily coronavirus briefing amid calls to finalise the test, track and trace strategy.
Trials of a new coronavirus test returning results in just 20 minutes will begin in Hampshire on Thursday, he says.

The NHS Confederation warns of "severe" consequences if the right system is not established quickly.

The number of confirmed cases worldwide since the outbreak began passes five million.

More than 328,000 people have died with Covid-19, and 1.9 million have recovered, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Trials of two anti-malarial drugs begin in the UK to see if they can prevent infection.

Scotland will reopen all schools from 11 August, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says.

mapuc

05-21-20, 02:26 PM

You could say Sweden is the black sheep in the Scandinavian family

Denmark have been talking about opening its border for Norwegians, and Finnish, but not Swedish

The same have the Primeminister in Finland and Norway said-Opening the border for the Scandinavians, except the Swedish citizens.

Markus

Skybird

05-21-20, 04:05 PM

Sweden base son a huge poandemic exercise and study they did in 2010 und supervision of their current top state pandemist. There they rated the pandemy not just on grounds of the damage it does, but assumed collaterla death rates casued by fighting it, and under health and mentla health indices.

I do not find that study, or what is reprted about iut, convinsingk, but thats what they seem to have chosen as theoir basis for today'S action.

Standardised to comaoring deifntion s of what detahs are caused by Covid 19, and standardised against population (Germany has over eight times more people, for example), their Covid-1q9 caused death rate two days ago was 3 times higher than that of Denmark or Norway, and 3.8 times higher than that of Germany.

They need good compensation effects to justfiy this.

Now compare that with New Zealand. They had or still have a totla lockdown, stricter than almost anywherre else. They have a currently overwhelming success over the virus - but with extreme costs for the economy and civil society, it seems.

Its a moral dilemma, very difficult to weigh. Its veryx difficult to discmrinate between loss in life directly due to the vorus and its health conditions, and the collateral loss of live from fighting the virus.

To allow loss of mlife growing to save the eocnoimy means to preoclaim the right that the state shall decide to let parts of the populatiion die due ti denying them direct help in order of interests of the majority.

Very dangerous. How many lives are fine to sacrifice to save economic interests? How many lives are fine to destroy collaterally due to saving virus patients?

Very dangerous precedences can be created from this.

Very difficult to morally navigate these waters.

mapuc

05-21-20, 04:25 PM

Even though the Swedes picked a different way, they have also a big economical crisis like the rest of the world.

Even if they have kept most of the society open, the selling have gone down by 20-something percentage.

Markus

vienna

05-22-20, 04:40 AM

A pandemic of conspiracy theories spreads across the internet and around the world --

https://news.yahoo.com/a-pandemic-of-conspiracy-theories-spreads-across-the-internet-and-around-the-world-195903321.html

<O>

Jimbuna

05-22-20, 06:50 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQw7vLNsDA

Jimbuna

05-22-20, 06:51 AM

Brazil's death toll hits 20,047 as fears grow Latin America could become the pandemic's next epicentre.

Countries including Mexico, Chile and Peru are also struggling to contain major outbreaks.

UK arrivals could face fines if they break isolation rules that are set to be announced.

But Australia says its travellers should be exempt from the planned two-week quarantine.

The plan to reopen schools in England on 1 June is questioned by local councils.

UK government borrowing reaches £62.1bn ($75.8bn) in April, a record high.

Globally, there have been 5.1 million confirmed cases and nearly 333,000 deaths.

mapuc

05-22-20, 11:01 AM

Here in Denmark a political storm of hurricane force is on the rise

Yes it is related to Corona.

So far it looks like the Primeminister may have exceeded her exercises powers

It turned out that the massive shut down of the Danish society was a lot more than needed and what the Danish Serum Institute recommended.

Markus

Jimbuna

05-22-20, 11:02 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDfuS8JdE0

Jimbuna

05-22-20, 01:19 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFFQdXN5Tk

em2nought

05-22-20, 04:09 PM

I've picked up something elderberry at the Walmart in the pharmacy section. It's kind of an unusual, but it a good way taste. Might have to try some jam or jelly off Amazon. Supposedly has some positive effect towards immune system.

August

05-22-20, 04:21 PM

Skybird

05-22-20, 04:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esDfuS8JdE0

Quote of importance (2:07)

"If you're in the sunshine, you get Vitamine D. Now you dont want to get burnt in the sun, so if it takes about 2 hours say to get sunburned, then you make a lot of Vitamine D in one hour. So we want to get halfway to being sunburned to make an optimal amount of Vitamine D. If you're exposed to the sun for half the time it takes you to get sunburned with a good body exposure under your shorts and your top off, you make about 20 thousand units of Vitamine D, so that is a lot. (...) If somebody is deficient in Vitamine D, there is evidence that supplements can improve the quality of immunity."

He does not explicitly say this, but I strongly assume he says this about white skinned humans. Darker skin colours produce Vitmane D slower, the darkest very slowly. Also, you may live in a sunny country, but by job circumstances spend a lot of time indoors, so that weighs in.

I feel reconfirmed in my self-prescription of 10 thousand units per day, of course together with Vit K2 and Magnesium, this should never be ignored.

Do not take it together with Calcium. Pay attention to that Vitamine K helps blood clotting, which in principle is good since it helps to seal bleeding wounds faster. If I would catch the virus, I would immediately skip taking Vit K2 and lower the dose of Vitamine D, since Coivid 19 is known now to excessively cause blood clotting, one third or more of the hospitalised cases have according complications. You also need to pay attention to Vitamine K when you take blood thinners - both agents' effects are antagonistic, obviously.

Note that national food and nutrition agencies tend to be extremely conservative in their recommendations of supplements. In Germany, they almost always say "Nay", while in the US Vit-D even gets added in significant quantities, it seems to me, to foods you buy off the shelves. There is no consensus on these supplements, and none of these agencies guards the only true holy grail - not with Vitamine D and not with any other food supplements. They are bureaucratic organizations with plenty of both industrial and ideological lobbyists trying to manipulate them, so money making and missionising both play important roles. Inform yourself from different sources, use your reason, and make a rational decision that you can form good arguments for. Do not just blindly follow what your Doc tells you - no doctor knows everything, some are modern, some are old-fashioned, some learn new stuff, some refuse to let new stuff touch them, and none of them has divine inerrable knowledge. Mostly I listen to them - but not always. I demand a doctor to be able to thoroughly explain even that what I as a non-doctor do not know by default. What they give in explanation has to make sense to me, if it does not, I reject them, and if they cannot explain it so that I understand it, I conclude they do not know what they talk about, and if they do not take the time it takes to explain it, I withdraw all trust and will never see them again.

Fortunately Dr Campbell is very good in explaining things. :)

And he has friendly eyes. Laugh, if you want, but I pay attention to such details. Eyes are windows to the soul, poets say. There is some truth in that, I think. Faces can lie. Eyes never.

mapuc

05-22-20, 05:01 PM

vienna

05-22-20, 05:11 PM

Is this the article you were looking for? I don't think this is a pay site...:

The treatment of Sweden's old and vulnerable is a 'catastrophe' --

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/07/treatment-swedens-old-vulnerable-catastrophe/

<O>

mapuc

05-22-20, 05:15 PM

vienna

05-22-20, 06:03 PM

I thought Subscribe=pay.

Markus

I apologize for the misunderstanding; when I originally opened the article, it opened in full, so I thought there was no subscription requirement; when I opened it a second time, the subscription nag did appear; again, I apologize...

I searched for other possible sources of the article, but the Telegraph UK, like other sources such as The NY Times, Washington Post, etc., has pretty much sealed off access outside of their own link. There appear to be no non-pay/subscribe sources available, but I'll keep looking...

<O>

Skybird

05-23-20, 06:01 AM

After a restaurant reopened, a guest infected 7 with covid-19 and caused 50 further guests force dunder full quarantine.

Restaurants in germany are allowed to operate under limiting regulations, but they say they cannot operate cost-covering this way. They are open now, but they all make losses.

A Christian-Baptist church service led to "a huge number of infections" - no precise numbers givne so far - of many people from across all the Rhine-Main area, and that is extrenely huge and densely populated and that is a lot of people. I said it often before: do not just mumble something with low voice into your beard when praying, but pronounce clear and loud what you expect Him to do. Obviously this time there was a misunderstanding. Or maybe it was because all people spoke simultaneously. - Just saying, since Trump wants to score with his voters by enforcing churches to be opened across all states.

Jimbuna

05-23-20, 06:08 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8801ViSMo

skidman

05-23-20, 06:14 AM

Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine treatment leads to higher mortality of COVID-19 patients a study indicates:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

Jimbuna

05-23-20, 06:17 AM

UK prime minister's office defends his chief adviser, who has been accused of breaking lockdown rules.

Dominic Cummings travelled 260 miles to a family home in County Durham, while suffering coronavirus symptoms.

Durham police and crime commissioner Steve White said it was unwise and concerning.

China, where the outbreak began last year, has for the first time recorded no new cases.

Muslims around the world are being urged to celebrate Eid al-Fitr at home amid the pandemic.

Saudi Arabia imposes total curfew over the Eid holiday after previously easing measures.

A new study suggests that the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine may increase the risk of death among Covid-19 patients.

Globally, more than 5.2m cases have been recorded, says Johns Hopkins University; 338,000 have died and 2m have recovered.

Skybird

05-23-20, 07:07 AM

A Christian-Baptist church service led to "a huge number of infections" - no precise numbers givne so far - of many people from across all the Rhine-Main area, and that is extrenely huge and densely populated and that is a lot of people. I said it often before: do not just mumble something with low voice into your beard when praying, but pronounce clear and loud what you expect Him to do. Obviously this time there was a misunderstanding. Or maybe it was because all people spoke simultaneously. - Just saying, since Trump wants to score with his voters by enforcing churches to be opened across all states.
First incoming numbers now say "over 40 infections". Health services and offices frantically try to track down all those rattails of infection chains and follow-on contacts. Thank God - pardon the word game - they have not more important things to do currently than to chase down unneeded infection chains...

Important in tis case as in the other infection cases I mentioned before: all rules and regulations had been obeyed.

I just say: avoid meeting groups, even unrelated individuals in closed rooms, if only you can. Avoid, avoid, avoid. Meet in the open, several meters apart, with wind from the side if possible.

Rockstar

05-23-20, 07:22 AM

Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine treatment leads to higher mortality of COVID-19 patients a study indicates:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

An article worth noting but like so many other studies before it the report ends with: Randomized clinical trials will be required before any conclusion can be reached regarding benefit or harm of these agents in COVID-19 patients.

Any reports on the use and efficacy of Losartan, Actemra, kaletra, remdesivir, favipiravir, or EIDD-2801? I wonder why nobody ever posts anything about those? :roll:

Mr Quatro

05-23-20, 08:12 AM

YAfter a restaurant reopened, a guest infected 7 with covid-19 and caused 50 further guests force dunder full quarantine.

Restaurants in germany are allowed to operate under limiting regulations, but they say they cannot operate cost-covering this way. They are open now, but they all make losses.

A Christian-Baptist church service led to "a huge number of infections" - no precise numbers givne so far - of many people from across all the Rhine-Main area, and that is extrenely huge and densely populated and that is a lot of people. I said it often before: do not just mumble something with low voice into your beard when praying, but pronounce clear and loud what you expect Him to do. Obviously this time there was a misunderstanding. Or maybe it was because all people spoke simultaneously. - Just saying, since Trump wants to score with his voters by enforcing churches to be opened across all states.

How timely your observations are due to the same thing is happeing over here in the USA also. Not too sure about restaurants though, because they have just started to open up which will result in even more cross contaminating of customers and employees alike.

A church is not a theather where everyone sits apart to view a movie together they sing and shout and some even dance or have hands on healing services. The results are not in yet, but the wise ones will stay home till they have immunity from the unwise carriers of Covid-19.

Corona doesn't care who you are it just wants to invade your body like some angry demon and take you to the grave or at the least pocess you to destroy you. Like electricity Corona virsus will take the least path of resistance. :yep:

em2nought

05-23-20, 08:23 AM

They're purposely reporting data using it as late stage treatment when they know it needs to be administered early stage, hopefully before you ever see a hospital. Probably good luck if you could get somebody to prescribe it for you early stage though. The only reason I could see to administer Hydroxychloroquine late stage is so you can say See it doesn't work..

Y

Corona doesn't care who you are it just wants to invade your body like some angry demon and take you to the grave or at the least pocess you to destroy you. Like electricity Corona virsus will take the least path of resistance. :yep:

I think of covid-19 more as a lion picking off the weak members of the herd. Once the weak are gone it should become harder for the lion to eat unless he ups his game. The problem is that we've stop treating everything else so members of the herd with other medical problems are going to become the new weak members of the herd if they aren't treated for their other problems

August

05-23-20, 08:48 AM

Y

How timely your observations are due to the same thing is happeing over here in the USA also. Not too sure about restaurants though, because they have just started to open up which will result in even more cross contaminating of customers and employees alike.

A church is not a theather where everyone sits apart to view a movie together they sing and shout and some even dance or have hands on healing services. The results are not in yet, but the wise ones will stay home till they have immunity from the unwise carriers of Covid-19.

Corona doesn't care who you are it just wants to invade your body like some angry demon and take you to the grave or at the least pocess you to destroy you. Like electricity Corona virsus will take the least path of resistance. :yep:

Go live in a hole if you want but I will continue enjoying my God given liberties as a free man. We must not allow a bunch of petty hitler wannabees scare the country into giving them up. especially when it won't fix the problem they are using to justify their tyranny. This "angry demon" virus will not be defeated by turning the nation into a dictatorship, all it will do is tear the nation apart.

Mr Quatro

05-23-20, 09:06 AM

An article worth noting but like so many other studies before it the report ends with: Randomized clinical trials will be required before any conclusion can be reached regarding benefit or harm of these agents in COVID-19 patients.

Any reports on the use and efficacy of Losartan, Actemra, kaletra, remdesivir, favipiravir, or EIDD-2801? I wonder why nobody ever posts anything about those? :roll:

I heard that remdesivir cost $1,000 a shot and that Hydroxychloroquine cost less than $1.00 a pill ... nothing is proven yet, but if your dying and the doctor says,
"Do you want to try this or that unproven method" what are you going to do?

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geKekjLMleU58AkzFXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2 NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRmcjIDc2EtZ3Atc2VhcmNoBG dwcmlkA1dXYXF5RkhkVGFpTm9DakJ0WktRbkEEbl9yc2x0AzAE bl9zdWdnAzkEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAz MEcHFzdHIDaG93IG11Y2ggZG9lcyByZW1kZXNpdmlyBHBxc3Ry bAMyNARxc3RybAMzMwRxdWVyeQNob3clMjBtdWNoJTIwZG9lcy UyMHJlbWRlc2l2aXIlMjBjb3N0JTIwcGVyBHRfc3RtcAMxNTkw MjQyNDQyBHVzZV9jYXNlAw--?p=how+much+does+remdesivir+cost+per&fr2=sa-gp-search&fr=mcafee&type=E211US1274G91208

Though a price hasn't been set yet for remdesivir, the Institute for Clinical and Economic Review, an organization that reviews drug costs, suggests that $4,460 per course of treatment would be cost-effective.

Catfish

05-23-20, 09:11 AM

Mr Quatro

05-23-20, 09:13 AM

Go live in a hole if you want but I will continue enjoying my God given liberties as a free man. We must not allow a bunch of petty hitler wannabees scare the country into giving them up. especially when it won't fix the problem they are using to justify their tyranny. This "angry demon" virus will not be defeated by turning the nation into a dictatorship, all it will do is tear the nation apart.

My hole has running water, telephone, Dish satellite, High speed internet, freezer and refrigerator full of food, well stocked pantry, library full of books, comfortable chair, couch that makes into a bed, clean clothes, games on top of games PC and Xbox One, Stereo AM/FM with nice speakers, full view of a valley with mountains in the background, surrounded by more trees than people, friends that drop by from time to time and a church that prays for me.

All I need is Fedex with a Walmart cash card and a blonde hooker to fulfill my fondness dreams. :yep:

August

05-23-20, 09:17 AM

I think this article sums up the frustration quite well:

All we had was our humanity. And that’s exactly what is being lost during this pandemic.
While arguments are breaking out on social media—and in person in some places—about whether people are wearing masks or gloves or keeping their distance, people like this poor gentleman are wondering how they are going to feed their family.
Suicide hotlines are overwhelmed (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/calls-us-helpline-jump-891-white-house-warned/story?id=70010113). Unemployment is skyrocketing. Women and children in abusive relationships are stuck at home in a nightmare situation with their abusers. Alcohol sales (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-alcohol-sales-spike-during-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-04-01)are through the roof. Foster kids have nowhere to go to be loved and cared for.
Yet we are fighting over masks, sitting in our privileged homes and pounding away on our phones, sending tweets and posting Facebook comments demeaning other people in the harshest of ways. Masks are the last thing a person is thinking about when he cannot make ends meet and is trying to figure out how much rice and beans he can afford with an almost empty bank account.
Our humanity is being lost in endless cycles of cruelty and judgements, both in person and online. Adults are resorting to bully tactics when they don’t get their way or don’t understand where another person is coming from. Can’t we do better than this?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/22/our-coronavirus-response-is-making-us-lose-our-humanity/

em2nought

05-23-20, 10:03 AM

This week, China threatened to impose an 80 per cent tariff on Australian barley exports and suspended beef imports from four major Australian abattoirs

Eat more bats? :har:

https://www.thepubliceditor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Coronavirus_Bat_Eat_Mor_Chikin_PL.png

Rockstar

05-23-20, 10:12 AM

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/top-miners-warn-of-rocky-road-to-global-economic-recovery-20200513-p54sjm.html

diplomatic relations sour between Canberra and Beijing following the Morrison government's push for an inquiry into the outbreak. This week, China threatened to impose an 80 per cent tariff on Australian barley exports and suspended beef imports from four major Australian abattoirs, prompting federal government concerns that China plans to use economic levers to pressure Australia to back down. China has denied the moves were linked to the coronavirus dispute.

LOL sorry, I thought I placed the above article in the wrong thread. So I deleted it only afterwards did I realize that admin combined with the Wuhan thread. So here it is again

Skybird

05-23-20, 10:18 AM

Remdesivir seems to shorten the time of healing, apart of that it is not good for evaing the virus, it is not a vaccine.
And Chlorodingelskirchen is good because Trump says so, nothing to discuss here.
Didn't he say he takes it daily? If we are lucky it will relieve us of Donald sooner or later. :D Which may be seen as proof then that it is a potent drug against stupidity.

August

05-23-20, 10:37 AM

Didn't he say he takes it daily? If we are lucky it will relieve us of Donald sooner or later. :D Which may be seen as proof then that it is a potent drug against stupidity.

Now you're openly wishing for Trumps death. Can we wish for your death too without it being considered a personal attack?

skidman

05-23-20, 11:14 AM

I think of covid-19 more as a lion picking off the weak members of the herd. Once the weak are gone it should become harder for the lion to eat unless he ups his game. The problem is that we've stop treating everything else so members of the herd with other medical problems are going to become the new weak members of the herd if they aren't treated for their other problems

I see. Once the virus has killed the "right" weak it will start killing the "wrong" weak. Social Darwinism is a concept for weirdos (proved by your post), but you have taken it to the next level and now it's weirder than weird.

mapuc

05-23-20, 12:14 PM

Seeing all these videoclips from Brazil, other countries and hearing the news from USA and other countries, one can't help thinking on the Black Death in our Middle age.

Markus

Jimbuna

05-23-20, 01:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJMlcKbFOEI

Skybird

05-23-20, 05:03 PM

After a restaurant reopened, a guest infected 7 with covid-19 and caused 50 further guests force dunder full quarantine.

Not 50 - make it over 100 now, still growing.

So it goes if you ignore the 101 of infection prevention.

First federal state (Thuringia) has announced that in a week they want to abandon ALL Covid-19 measures alltogether: social distancing. Mask wearing. Desinfecting rules. EVERYTHING NO MORE DONE.

Sweet dreams 'til sunbeams find you,
sweet dreams to leave all worries behind you...

em2nought

05-23-20, 05:28 PM

I see. Once the virus has killed the "right" weak it will start killing the "wrong" weak. Social Darwinism is a concept for weirdos (proved by your post), but you have taken it to the next level and now it's weirder than weird.

I also left out people who just naturally age/decline and become new targets for the lion.

Sometimes the lion gets into the sheep pen too.

https://www.gopusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/cuomo_killed_mom.jpg

mapuc

05-23-20, 05:44 PM

What is this?

Now when I'm remembering it.

Said by some Doctors on Swedish tv, some weeks ago.
(from memory)
The tendency is clear, when we see who's suffering most from this Corona.

Male who smoke with high blood pressure above 50 years of age=99.99 % sure to die if infected by Corona.

Danish tv few days later.

If we look at who have the highest risk of dying from Corona
It's those with high weight with a BMI above 30 and with a none-treated high blood pressure.

So there you have it.

If you live in Sweden and are a man above 50 with high blood pressure and smoke you most likely will die from a Corona infection.

While you can smoke as much you wish in Denmark....as long you don't have a BMI above 30 and your blood pressure is being treated.

My thought

What is this.

In Sweden it's very, very much non correct to smoke.
In Denmark it's very, very much non correct to be fat.

Don't know how to explain this, because I could be wrong.
But it seems like they don't know exactly why some people die from Corona and therefore they need a scapegoat-In Sweden it's smoking and in Denmark it's overweight

Markus

Jeff-Groves

05-23-20, 06:11 PM

Now you're openly wishing for Trumps death. Can we wish for your death too without it being considered a personal attack?
I believe you can wish for it. Just not post that is your wish.
:haha:

ET2SN

05-23-20, 06:48 PM

My hole has running water, telephone, Dish satellite, High speed internet, freezer and refrigerator full of food, well stocked pantry, library full of books, comfortable chair, couch that makes into a bed, clean clothes, games on top of games PC and Xbox One, Stereo AM/FM with nice speakers, full view of a valley with mountains in the background, surrounded by more trees than people, friends that drop by from time to time and a church that prays for me.

All I need is Fedex with a Walmart cash card and a blonde hooker to fulfill my fondness dreams. :yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk9aThIovMA

This would make a lot more sense if I could find the (later) version with "I got cable TV in my.......hell hole".

But, I couldn't, you know, find it, so, nevermind. :yeah:

Eichhörnchen

05-24-20, 07:32 AM

https://i.imgur.com/CqE8D5O.jpg

Skybird

05-24-20, 08:30 AM

Now you're openly wishing for Trumps death. Can we wish for your death too without it being considered a personal attack?
I believe you can wish for it. Just not post that is your wish.
:haha:
August is a hypocrite (and an ideological zealot). Actually some weeks ago when I reasoned about probabilities of living or dying myself due to my health condition if catching the virus, he expressed his joyful expectation in case of the latter scenario.

Such a charming individual is in no position to lecture others on decent behaviour - or ideologically fitting or unfitting jokes. Germany has the AfD. America has Trump. There is no principle difference. The only difference is that the AfD is far from winning a majority in national elections, and winning the chancellor's office - while Ameica has plenty of empty nuts who will give Trump a second term.

August

05-24-20, 09:01 AM

Such a charming individual is in no position to lecture others on decent behaviour...

Struck a nerve did I? Well you're in no position to dispense medical advice from your dads basement but that doesn't stop you now does it. :)

Catfish

05-24-20, 09:51 AM

"Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, Jair Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson - a men's group with many things in common. It was evident all along, but it is now possible to measure how little interest these powerful have in the wellbeing of their populations.
As of mid-May 2020, these four men rule over the four countries with the most corona infections worldwide. They are unlikely to fear for their top positions so quickly, but Brazil should still move up to second place. At least.

From a liberal perspective, the search for the reason for this ranking should not be made too easy. After all, there are states that are governed more authoritarian, and with the exception of Russia, they are real democracies - again as of May 2020. The search for the reason should not be too difficult, however, because the parallels are as impressive as they are obvious . All have at least temporarily:

- the pandemic downplayed or even ignored

- the lives of vulnerable, older, sick people are considered as a disposal

- decided according to their own political, rather than scientific, standards
economic measures are given priority over health

- and finally deceived the public against better knowledge

All four combine patriarchal self-righteousness and low-empathy arrogance, and the consequences are similar: a more or less pronounced resistance to advice and the will to manipulate the public.

Clearly, a violent autocrat like Putin does it differently than a democratically confined liar like Boris Johnson. But the number of infected people speaks for itself. Because the virus spreads optimally where people are used to a certain freedom of movement on the one hand and do not change their behavior on the other hand. Despite the differences between men and power practices, the four top positions can therefore be attributed to their willingness to view reality as optional."

Skybird

05-24-20, 10:52 AM

the four top positions can therefore be attributed to their willingness to view reality as optional."
See my sig.
"Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”– Hannah Arendt

Mr Quatro

05-24-20, 10:57 AM

- the lives of vulnerable, older, sick people are considered as a disposal

Sounds like a future movie (about the future) likely to include famine and people having to make a choice to feed the young and starve the elders :yep:

Rockstar

05-24-20, 11:19 AM

Skybird

05-24-20, 12:07 PM

First incoming numbers now say "over 40 infections". Health services and offices frantically try to track down all those rattails of infection chains and follow-on contacts.
40 was yesterday, today the count 107 infections. Suspicous cases and follow-on contacts in quarantine were not given a number so far, one can assume these are even more.

A single, small event.

u crank

05-24-20, 12:20 PM

the lives of vulnerable, older, sick people are considered as a disposal

dont forget to add Carl XVI Gustaf, Macron, Sergio Mattarella to your list. I'm sure the list is longer but that would distract from you placing politics over the reality of the virus outbreak.

And of course the Democrat Governor of the state of New York Andrew Cuomo. Surely he would make this list.

Jimbuna

05-24-20, 12:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdIIwNyB1AA

Jimbuna

05-24-20, 12:48 PM

UK PM Boris Johnson backs his chief aide, amid allegations that he breached lockdown restrictions.

He says Dominic Cummings acted "responsibly and legally"

Several Conservative MPs had called for the adviser to be removed from his post.

Johnson says the UK can move to phase two of the easing of restrictions.

This would see some pupils in England returning to school from 1 June.

The world's deepest mine, the Mponeng gold mine in South Africa, closes after 164 people tested positive.

China's foreign minister says politicians in the US are "jumping at every opportunity to slander" his country.

Jimbuna

05-24-20, 12:56 PM

Russia reported 153 more deaths over the previous 24 hours, the epidemic's highest daily toll there. It raises the total fatalities to 3,541

German authorities are trying to trace everyone who attended a church service in Frankfurt this month after more than 107 people tested positive for the coronavirus.

The French government does not want its citizens to travel abroad this summer and recommends they take their holidays in France, says Environment Minister Elisabeth Borne.

People living in Spain's biggest cities, Madrid and Barcelona, are eagerly anticipating the opening of parks, museums, churches and outdoor seating at bars this week.

Sri Lanka's government says it will ease lockdown measures from Tuesday. The capital, Colombo, and Gampaha district, have been under a 24-hour curfew since March.

Argentina has extended a mandatory lockdown in Buenos Aires until 7 June after the capital saw a steady increase of coronavirus cases in recent days.

Venezuela and Iran have warned the United States not to interfere with the delivery of more than a million barrels of fuel. Venezuela is suffering a shortage of refined fuel during the coronavirus crisis.

Eichhörnchen

05-24-20, 01:04 PM

Eat more bats? :har:

https://www.thepubliceditor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Coronavirus_Bat_Eat_Mor_Chikin_PL.png

:har::har::har:

Mr Quatro

05-24-20, 01:09 PM

People living in Spain's biggest cities, Madrid and Barcelona, are eagerly anticipating the opening of parks, museums, churches and outdoor seating at bars this week.

This is no small matter with a bar on every corner serving Tapas :yep:

http://taylorwimpeyspain.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/p1110760.jpg

Skybird

05-24-20, 03:41 PM

One careless sneeze in the kitchen, one guest sneezing carelessly, can ruin the whole wonderful buffet.

:timeout: People, use your brains. No cold buffet, no not-heat food, and restaurants only where you have visual insight into the kitchen running! Some restaurants have that, as a feature. Corona virusses start to crack up only at around 70+ °C, I read. I dont want my cold salad being breathed down onto by who knows how many, and room aerosoles condensating on the salad leaves and mayo.

Personally, I quit alltpogether on bars and restaurants. But I am no big restaurant visitor anyway. Costs much money and is boring. To me, it just is not worth it, not now and not before Corona.

MaDef

05-24-20, 04:41 PM

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

pretty much sums it up skybird.:smug:

mapuc

05-24-20, 05:14 PM

Here's another very interesting thing.

None, as in zero who have died from this Corona virus in Sweden and Denmark have been undergoing an autopsy

A Female who examine dead people(forgot what they are called) said on Swedish tv.
From memory
This is exceptional we used to get people who have died from some kind of virus, to see what it have done to the body.
An autopsy tells us a lot more than a few ml blood sample.
Then something about special section, where they can conduct autopsy on bodies who have got some deadly contagious infection.

Markus

em2nought

05-24-20, 05:38 PM

One careless sneeze in the kitchen, one guest sneezing carelessly, can ruin the whole wonderful buffet.

I believe the phrase "all you can eat buffet" might be going the way of the dinosaurs. :D I for one don't plan to share tongs with anyone ever again. :hmmm:

August

05-24-20, 07:15 PM

Oh but we all need to stay shut in so we can be safe! :roll:

‘A Year’s Worth of Suicide Attempts in the Last Four Weeks’: California Doctor Calls for End to Lockdown

The doctor in charge of a Bay Area, Calif. trauma center said the state should end its lockdown orders after an “unprecedented” spike in suicide attempts amid the coronavirus pandemic.
“We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told (https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/) local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to end the state shutdown.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-the-last-four-weeks-california-doctor-calls-for-end-to-lockdown/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=first

MaDef

05-24-20, 11:35 PM

That begs the question of why are suicide attempts up, are people that psychologically fragile that a deviation (such as this pandemic) in their routine lives can send them over the edge?

vienna

05-25-20, 01:27 AM

I'm trying to find an English article on what I have heard on the news and what some of my friends have made comments on.

It's about Sweden(again)

The story is that the elderly over 60 were placed at the bottom of the treatment ladder, and the elderly in old age homes were considered as consumables.

I have found article where the Swedish leader for the Swedish Serum Institut Anders Tegnell have rejected this assertion

I found one English article, which is behind a paywall

The headlines in the article

"The treatment of Sweden's old and vulnerable is a 'catastrophe'
Modelling suggests up to 20,000 could die if the virus becomes rampant in care homes"

Markus

I don't know if you are still looking for the above article, but I just clicked on it again and it showed in full without the subscription nag; some of the news sites will often allow free views once some time has passed...:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/07/treatment-swedens-old-vulnerable-catastrophe/

<O>

Jimbuna

05-25-20, 05:30 AM

Japan is lifting its state of emergency, having brought the virus under control - PM Shinzo Abe.

In the UK, a political row is intensifying as PM Boris Johnson defends a key aide who travelled during lockdown.

The US has imposed travel restrictions on foreign nationals who have been in Brazil in the last 14 days.

Cases have grown exponentially in Brazil and it now has the second highest number of cases globally.

Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro has repeatedly downplayed the risks posed by the virus.

Meanwhile the US is nearing the milestone of 100,000 deaths - it already has more than 1.6m cases.

India is resuming domestic flights on Monday after two months of shutdown.

Globally, at least 5.4 million people have been infected and more than 345,000 have died - Johns Hopkins University.

Jimbuna

05-25-20, 05:39 AM

Germany's economy has been pushed into a recession in the first quarter.
The 2.2% contraction is the steepest since the financial crisis of 2008 and the second-steepest since the country's reunification in 1990.

Gyms and swimming pools reopen in Italy, except in the hardest-hit region of Lombardy. The country has the third-highest recorded death toll from the virus worldwide.

Spain’s two biggest cities, Madrid and Barcelona, both move into phase one of the country’s 3-phase lockdown lifting plan. People can now gather in small groups, while bars and restaurants can serve customers outside. Other parts of the country move to phase two – meaning beaches, businesses and public areas can open more extensively.

Ferry services in Greece resume to all islands and ports, as the government hopes to boost domestic tourism. Cafes and restaurants are also reopening in the country from Monday.

Bars reopen in the Czech Republic – the country with the highest per capita beer consumption in the world – as the country enters its final lockdown easing stage. As well as restaurants, cafes and pubs, the doors are also reopening at primary schools, zoos and castles.

And Ukraine’s capital Kiev has resumed regular service on its metro. According to Johns Hopkins University, the country has confirmed more than 21,000 cases and recorded 623 deaths.

Iran has reopened its major Shia Muslim shrines - including those of Imam Reza in Mashhad and Hazrat Masumeh in Qom - two months after they were closed to help prevent the spread of Covid-19.

August

05-25-20, 07:29 AM

...are people that psychologically fragile that a deviation (such as this pandemic) in their routine lives can send them over the edge?

Apparently some people are yes.

Skybird

05-25-20, 07:56 AM

That begs the question of why are suicide attempts up, are people that psychologically fragile that a deviation (such as this pandemic) in their routine lives can send them over the edge?
IMO our Western societies, and life in them, are extremely neurotic, and so breed according individuals.

Plem-plem. Gaga. Balla-balla.

Mr Quatro

05-25-20, 09:27 AM

Cases have grown exponentially in Brazil and it now has the second highest number of cases globally.

Because they live so close together by the millions, mostly poor, so poor they can't afford face mask and with the shut down no jobs, no money, no food.

Same with China, Italy, Spain, New York they all live so close together the virus has no choice but to get into the next person.

South Korea was getting better till they lifted restrictions on the night life bars.

It's Japan that I can't understand they are just now coming out of it.

Rockstar

05-25-20, 09:33 AM

That begs the question of why are suicide attempts up, are people that psychologically fragile that a deviation (such as this pandemic) in their routine lives can send them over the edge?

I read somewhere there're 45,000 suicides each year attributed to job loss. I suppose being threatened with fines or imprisonment if you leave your house, loose your job, unable to pay your bills, lose your home, car or family. See your future and life come crashing down around you. Ya I think it can be a little overwhelming for some.

Jimbuna

05-25-20, 11:35 AM

Dominic Cummings, adviser to UK PM Boris Johnson, is facing calls to resign after he travelled 260 miles during lockdown.

Adviser confirms he drove 30 miles from Durham to Barnard Castle, but says he did so to test his eyesight.

Cummings says he faced 'tricky situation' with childcare but believes he 'behaved reasonably'.

Cummings says he 'did not consider' resigning over lockdown trips.

August

05-25-20, 06:19 PM

New York City has allowed people back onto the beaches but it forbids anyone going into the water.
In Los Angles people are allowed in the water but they cannot loiter on the beach.
Both cities claim to be guided by science.

vienna

05-25-20, 07:42 PM

If you've ever seen the waters around New York, then you'd understand that a ban on going into them is/was long overdue...

<O>

Platapus

05-26-20, 06:09 AM

Yeah, I would not want to go into the water near NYC either

Skybird

05-26-20, 08:30 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52784120

Its just weeks between applaus and oblivion. Thats what I had on mind when saying I do not care for crowds bashing cooking pots with wooden spoons. In Germany, nurses - very underpaid over here - will or have gotten around 1200 or 1500 Euros bonus - as a one time payment. No regular rise of their low wages. So groß ist die Anerkennung dann doch nicht.

Applaus is cheap. Makes the applauding feel good himself, and allowing politicians to wield mightily pathetic speeches. And costs nothing.

mapuc

05-26-20, 05:48 PM

The United States has set a sad milestone today(5/26-20) 100,000 dead directly or indirectly from Covid-19

Markus

MaDef

05-26-20, 06:44 PM

According to the CDC deaths are at 98,261 as of 5/26/2020

Platapus

05-27-20, 05:14 AM

Unfortunately, we should surpass that sad threshold by today.

Jimbuna

05-27-20, 07:36 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAm6Q0EPvgs

Jimbuna

05-27-20, 07:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH3ogesiTiY

Jimbuna

05-27-20, 07:42 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7za_j7f3L0

Mr Quatro

05-27-20, 09:54 AM

Two big no, no's in the news this morning :o

https://news.yahoo.com/france-halts-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-105439355.html

Paris (AFP) - The French government said Wednesday that doctors should no longer prescribe hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 patients, an unproven and potentially harmful treatment for the disease nonetheless promoted by US President Donald Trump.

The move came after two French advisory bodies and the World Health Organization (WHO) warned this week that the drug, a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, had been shown to be dangerous in several studies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/vitamin-d-s-effect-on-covid-19-may-be-exaggerated-here-s-what-we-know/ar-BB14DAeM?ocid=bingcoronaviruslinks

Just like hydroxychloroquine, it's leading some to ask, "What can it hurt if I take vitamin D supplements?"

Actually, it can hurt a lot. In the case of hydroxychloroquine, the World Health Organization stopped a clinical trial after finding that seriously ill Covid-19 patients who were treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were more likely to die.

And taking too much vitamin D can lead to a toxic buildup of calcium in your blood, causing confusion, disorientation and problems with heart rhythm, as well as bone pain, kidney damage and painful kidney stones.

Donald Trump is not taking hydroxychloroquine because he is sick or close to dying, but because he believes it may prevent Covid-19

Skybird thinks that vitamin D is a wonder drug, which even the VA has prescribed for my health, but too much is too much leading to toxic buildup of calcium in your blood, causing confusion, disorientation and problems with heart rhythm, as well as bone pain, kidney damage and painful kidney stones.

Jimbuna

05-27-20, 09:56 AM

European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen lays out a plan on how to finance the EU's economic recovery.

The commission recommends a fund worth €750bn (£670bn; $825bn) to tackle an "unprecedented crisis"

UK PM Boris Johnson is to be questioned by MPs at 16:00 (15:00 GMT) amid continued calls for his top adviser to resign.

"Local lockdowns" could be introduced to tackle regional outbreaks in England, the health secretary says.

Latin America has become the centre of the global pandemic, the head of the Pan American Health Organization warns.

The region now has more daily reported cases of Covid-19 than Europe and the US

France halts the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus patients because of potential health risks.

More than 5.6 million cases and over 350,000 deaths have been confirmed worldwide, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Skybird

05-27-20, 10:29 AM

Skybird thinks that vitamin D is a wonder drug, which even the VA has prescribed for my health, but too much is too much leading to toxic buildup of calcium in your blood, causing confusion, disorientation and problems with heart rhythm, as well as bone pain, kidney damage and painful kidney stones.

Meine Fresse.

Are you Donald "The Big Mouth" Trump? No? Then would you please show the politeness to quote me correctly and in full context? Facts on what I said, you can check them out in this thread:

I have several times reiterated the danger of higher doses of Vit D leading to what in German is called Hyperkalzämie. Yes, it then can resorb the Calcium from the bones, it then is in the blood and if it is there too long it can cause osteoporosis, plaques in the blood vessels, arteriosklerosis, kidney stones. Disorientation, confusion and heart rythm irregularities however are mostly reported at doses beyond 200 thousand international units per day,and two such reprts I lkately red about had the abuse exceeding 350 thosuand IE for severla weeks. They go away if abandonins these high doses.

I have repeatedly reiterated that therefore this effect of higher doses of Vitamine D must be countered, and the advice that usually is given is to take Vit-K2 as well. K2 supports absorption of calcium into the bones, it thus is sometimes called a "bone vitamine", it makes them stronger by pushing calcium into them. This effect is known since longer time.Calcium in the bones is calcium that cannot be in the blood at the same time. That is good.

I have repeatedly said that taking Vit-D means taking Vitamine D, Vitamine K2 and Magnesium all together. I have warned against taking higher doses of Vitamine D all alone. K2 is needed as well. Thats why comibination supplements in the supermarket or drugstore often combine D and K in one pill. And Magnesium, since otherwise just a tiny little fraction of the consummed Vitamine D will be absorbed by the body, the metabolistic processing needs plenty of Magnesium for that. I explained that in one post ion the past, or even in two.

I have reported the medical myth of "Vitamine D poisoning", which was a label given to the symptoms you listed above disorientaiton, dizziness etc and also with regard to the Calcium moving from bones into the bloodstream and the following consequences form that. These symptoms were once claimed to be a poisoning effect of the Vitamine D, while in fact they are a symtpom of a Vitamine K2 deficit. Vitamine K2 "heals"/prevents the "Vitamine D poisoning.

I have repeatedly said that the Vitamine D is known since longer time to play a dominant role in the efficiency level of the immune system, and that is has been shown in the past to indeed help significantly in battling other forms of Corona virusses.

None of what I said on all this, is just my own subjective opnion, or my finding. I simply repeated what has been said, found, researched by medical experts in the past years and decades. The John Cam,pbell videos can privide you some startig nblinks to accotridng studies done in the British Medical Journal, and the Lancet, he gave those links in his according videos. But htese are just starters, you can find it in more accessible format all across the web, to be understood easily by laymen as well. Its no rocket science to understand the basic links between variosu factors on all this.

Note that the various videos by Dr. John campbell that Jim or me sometimes link to, pick up the role of Vitamine D as their primary topiuc, he did 3 or four videos just on Vit-D. In his latest he talked of a "Vitamine D pandemic", pointing out to the overwhelmingly strong correlations between skin colours, Vitamine D production of the body, and severeness of Covid-19 infections. He also said that a person who needs 2 hours to develope sunburns if exposed to the full sun almost naked, would produce in one hour, half that time, 20 thousand units of Vitamine D. He reminded of the fact that the darker the skin of an ethnic groupo in the Us, the more severe said ethnic groupd gets hiot by Covid-19 - and the difference are really very serious. He just reported these findings again, minding you, the statiostics sayin g these were done by other, bigger researching projects and studies and statistical data collections. That may help some people to develope an idea on the ratios of Vit D numbers we talk here. I think the human body is perfectly capable to deal with several tens of thousands of IEs per day, the question is from what level on the body stops to benefit from it, which obviously is earlier the case than when the body starts to suffer from opposing symptoms.

I - and Dr. Campbell - rmeinded of the evolutijnary theory that while all men once were of darker skin colour, their skinds lightened up when they started to migrate noreth, away, from the equator, to adopt to less sunlight by having less pigments in their skins so that they nevertheless could produce Vitamine D. That is a long held model, not just formed since Covid 19.

I repeatedly said that nations' authorities wildly vary - internationally - on suggestions on Vitamine supplements. In America and Sweden, Vitamine D gets added to food you buy in supermarkets, in Germany the according organisaitons always tend to demonise supplements for moral and principal reasons while partially basing on the academic knowledge status of the time between the world wars. Industrial interests, lobby interests, ideology interest, all come together and try to win the money game against the others. You can make money with supplements, yes. But you can make more money with leavign the population deficient and sick - becasue then yiou can sell drugs whcih are more expensive. A healthy population is the pharmaceutical industry's nightmare. Thats why sometimes new syndromes and artificial changes of physiological base values get invented and "cotrrected" - to create a market and a demand for some new drug of theirs.

Don'T be a Trumpian troll. Quote me correctly and dont put words - or false interpretations and suggestive narrations into my mouth that I never said or meant. I never said Vitamine D is a wonderdrug. Its no drug at all, btw, but its a nutritive substance. Both physiologically and legally that is a decisive difference.

There are estimations now that the number of hospitalizations due to Covid 19 could be halved - halved!! - maybe, if the Vitamine D deficit in the generla Western populations could be brought to an end.

None of that is witchcraft, or mythology. Its no Trumpian supermagic and no esoteric cultism. Its mostly established scientific knowledge. I am no healer or matser of obscure medicine. Its just that I mastered another art in my youth years: I learned to read. And later I learned to understand statistics.

Skybird

05-27-20, 10:40 AM

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/friedhof_ts/25859694/2-format1007.jpg

skidman

05-27-20, 10:48 AM

Donald Trump is not taking hydroxychloroquine because he is sick

How do you know? Oh, and btw taking hydroxychloroquine won't help against his sickness!

Rockstar

05-27-20, 11:10 AM

The United States has set a sad milestone today(5/26-20) 100,000 dead directly or indirectly from Covid-19

Markus

Last count was 164,000 dead from COVID-19 in the European Union. Where was the sadness then? Like I suspected euro news is predominantly all about how bad everyone else has it so they can feel better about themselves I guess.

Mr Quatro

05-27-20, 11:24 AM

mapuc

05-27-20, 11:26 AM

Last count was 164,000 dead from COVID-19 in the European Union. Where was the sadness then? Like I suspected euro news is predominantly all about how bad everyone else has it so they can feel better about themselves I guess.

I don't think you can compare the European Union with USA.

The European Union consist of independent and (somehow)free countries.
Each of them with the own national anthem.
And much more.

Even though your States have some kind of own laws, they are still bound to Washington DC.

But I do agree, 164,000 is a very, very sad number indeed.

Markus

mapuc

05-27-20, 11:30 AM

According to the CDC deaths are at 98,261 as of 5/26/2020

Around 1 pm local time I opened this page

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

And there the numbers was 100,000 something.
Well it was after midnight therefore a new day 27 May here...but not in USA.
It was therefore I wrote 5/26

Markus

Skybird

05-27-20, 11:47 AM

Sorry I pulled you chain Skybird, but I should of said you recommended high does of vitamin D and then you added the extra drugs to counter using such high doses.

Now you have excused me of being like Donald Trump ... your observations are worse than mine :o
I give you that trhe quesiton is what "higher doses" of Vitamine D really means. State offices are conservative, so are many instiotutions,m last but not least to not be held legally acountable for anything going wrong. Regional laws demand this and that legal formality to be printed on a package, yes.

Its just that I read reports by practical doctors aand saw lectures given by doctors at youtube who rweproted froms their oratcice and said they treated people with severls tens of thousands of I.E. per day - but then under laboratory ocntrol of course. So, the range of what is possible and probabaly uncritical - if supplemented by K2 and Magnesium - varies wildly, from high hundreds to high tens of tousands. While some conservatives and pedagogues principally will insist on that you should not take a pill, but eat an apple. Here in germany, up to 20.000 IEs can be sold freely. The legal status is that of a food, not that of a medical drug. The package must show a sehetence saying "per week" (= 20 thosuand per 7 days), but that is a legal formality only, without any medical basis, like there must be a date stamped on a food can. When I said one shoudl ciosnider to take 20, 10 or 5 thoszuand IEs, I just did a subjetive survey of all that input, and then picked a "guess" that still is at the oower end of things, so make sure the value is distant from the treshholkd value of 200 thousands units where you cna indeed start to get brain, heart and cognitive issues. But I pressed repeatedly and always for taking Vit-K2 as well. Else that calcium indeed could become a problem sooner or later. The other thigns I am not so concerned of at all when we talk of doses in the range of 5- 20 thsouand IEs, but Calcuj mjust be monitored, and Magnesium should be taken so that all that Vitamine-D taking is not being a waste of time and money (metabolism of Vit-D needs some oil/fat). Oil/fat also is needed abit, and may it be only the butter on a slice of bread. Vitamine D often gets sold in fish oil capsules, but these are more expensive.

Vitamine D consummation can be precisely controlled by blood analysis and mionitopring the resulting subsaqtnces after the Vitmane got broken up. The mols per litre then can be logged and watched, to eb sued as an objective criterion. Again, state services tend to set these values probbaly way too low. Conservatism. I think bey<oind 50 thosauand at the lkatest you indeed should not tak emore without a doctor moinitopring your blood values. Due to different skin colours and different exposure times to different intensity of sunlights, the amount of vitamine D needed to result in the same blood saturation value, can vary very drastically. Other metablistic factors also weigh in. The metabolic homeostasis of the body is a multi-factorial formula with a hilariously high number of variables. :) Simple, linear links often are due to misled models. But not always. The correlation between Vit-D and immune resistance to Covid-19, is a very strong, convicining one. And that I say although I usually warn of taking correlations too simple. Abusing corrrelations is very much en vogue today. It serves the demand for easy, quick rhetorics that the crowd finds easy to buy into.

mapuc

05-27-20, 12:04 PM

I get Vitamin D3 through my doctor. In a blood test taken about a year ago showed a dangerous low level of this vitamin.

I take 1 x 35 micro gram per day.(one tablet)

Markus

skidman

05-27-20, 12:31 PM

I don't think you can compare the European Union with USA.

The European Union consist of independent and (somehow)free countries.
Each of them with the own national anthem.
And much more.

The different national anthems are less important here. The different economic/financial situations and more or less capable health care systems in the member countries are crucial. Yes, you can put Belgium, struggling and facing national bankruptcy for many years, and heavyweights like Germany in the same basket. It just doesn't make sense if you want a fair estimate on how good everybody is dealing with the virus (And of course Rockstar knows this).

Let's have a look at some more data:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-cases-per-million-since-1-per-million?yScale=linear&zoomToSelection=true&country=USA~DEU~ITA~FRA~AUT~DNK~PRT~ESP~SWE~BEL~GR C~HUN~NLD~POL~ROU~SVN~SVK

See? There were catastrophic phases in some European countries, but now everybody is doing quite well "flattening the curve" with two exceptions:

Sweden: The government decided they want to be on a suicide mission. Someone will be held responsible for this one day.

The USA: Why is that? I mean, one of the wealthiest, most developed countries in the world fails so miserably fighting the virus. That is the reason the rest of the world (except Brazil, they are busy digging graves) is staring at those numbers, not malice or spite. We just want to know why and maybe someone here can enlighten us.

Rockstar

05-27-20, 12:53 PM

The different national anthems are less important here. The different economic/financial situations and more or less capable health care systems in the member countries are crucial. Yes, you can put Belgium, struggling and facing national bankruptcy for many years, and heavyweights like Germany in the same basket. It just doesn't make sense if you want a fair estimate on how good everybody is dealing with the virus (And of course Rockstar knows this).

Let's have a look at some more data:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-cases-per-million-since-1-per-million?yScale=linear&zoomToSelection=true&country=USA~DEU~ITA~FRA~AUT~DNK~PRT~ESP~SWE~BEL~GR C~HUN~NLD~POL~ROU~SVN~SVK

See? There were catastrophic phases in some European countries, but now everybody is doing quite well "flattening the curve" with two exceptions:

Sweden: The government decided they want to be on a suicide mission. Someone will be held responsible for this one day.

The USA: Why is that? I mean, one of the wealthiest, most developed countries in the world fails so miserably fighting the virus. That is the reason the rest of the world (except Brazil, they are busy digging graves) is staring at those numbers, not malice or spite. We just want to know why and maybe someone here can enlighten us.

Hell when all this started all I ever read here were euros trolling how bad the U.S. health care system is compared to European way of doing things. :har: Come to find out there are well over 164,000 deaths in your healthcare utopia. How do you explain that? Whats your excuse? More importantly why was it just shrugged aside not even mentioned?

Compared to the deaths per capita your utopian European healthcare is leading the way.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Probably not one European headline over there wondering about that is there? They do a great job creating alternate realities for you to live in dont they?

IMO the major difference between us is that I'm aware of whats going on in my neighborhood. Whereas it seems to me Europeans are like old women gossiping over the terrible state of disrepair everyone else's house is in while theirs burns to the ground.

Jimbuna

05-27-20, 01:25 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4uI_msgr30

Skybird

05-27-20, 01:30 PM

I get Vitamin D3 through my doctor. In a blood test taken about a year ago showed a dangerous low level of this vitamin.

I take 1 x 35 micro gram per day.(one tablet)

Markus
FYI, thats 1400 IE's.
Vit D3 is from animal\meat food or sun production. D2 is from vegetarian food. Both get refined to (german) Calcitrol, which is measurable in the blood. D3 produces more of that than D2. D2 also is less stable than D3. Thus, D3 is the higher quality version of vitamine D.

August

05-27-20, 02:00 PM

A question I have not heard anyone ask or answer.

Can covid be transmitted by mosquitoes like many other virus'?

mapuc

05-27-20, 02:01 PM

I have nowhere written haha or LOL when I mentioned USA when it comes to this Corona virus.

It made me really sad, when I saw the numbers, 1 hour after midnight.

The same was also the case, when I saw Italy and Spain had passed 30,000

No countries shall point fingers at each others.

Markus

Rockstar

05-27-20, 02:13 PM

A question I have not heard anyone ask or answer.

Can covid be transmitted by mosquitoes like many other virus'?

I thought about that months ago but didn't dare bring that question up here. :haha: Now that the cat's out of the bag, I dont see why skeeter's couldn't be infectious they can transmit just about everything else.

August

05-27-20, 02:25 PM

The USA: Why is that? I mean, one of the wealthiest, most developed countries in the world fails so miserably fighting the virus. That is the reason the rest of the world (except Brazil, they are busy digging graves) is staring at those numbers, not malice or spite. We just want to know why and maybe someone here can enlighten us.

You're comparing us with countries that have 10% of our population and wondering why we have more cases? Really?

August

05-27-20, 02:27 PM

I thought about that months ago but didn't dare bring that question up here. :haha: Now that the cat's out of the bag, I dont see why skeeter's couldn't be infectious they can transmit just about everything else.

:up:

skidman

05-27-20, 02:49 PM

Hell when all this started all I ever read here were euros trolling how bad the U.S. health care system is compared to European way of doing things.

https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/blog/how-covid-19-unveiling-us-healthcare-weaknesses

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-economic-health-researcher-coronavirus-reveals-weaknesses-us-healthcare-system-2020-4?r=DE&IR=T

https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/coronavirus-exposes-the-many-weaknesses-in-the-us-healthcare-system-35057

Oh, and one of my all time favorites, not Corona related, but:

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/american-decay/

Come to find out there are well over 164,000 deaths in your healthcare utopia.

A shocking number (and even more shocking in "[SIZE=2]", thanks again). You know what? Almost all Europeans know about the errors that were made on our side of the pond fighting the virus:

Belgium did not have enough money to keep a sufficient standard in their healthcare system for at least 15 years. France had reduced the number of beds in ICUs just before the pandemic and so did Spain. Italy failed to react quickly enough to protect the overaged population. In all of these countries the system partially collapsed (at least for 2-3 weeks, just like in the state of New York). Germany did not store enough masks and protective gowns.The UK has a PM who had to learn the lesson the hard way.

Of course those severe problems were addressed in detail on TV, in the papers, on the web and the efficiency of our public healthcare systems is a controversial topic in every election campaign in every EU country.

My point, and you missed it completely, is: In Europe there have been adequate responses to the initial errors managing the pandemic scenario. As a consequence the curves were flattened.

Not in the US. I want to know why.

IMO the major difference between us is that I'm aware of whats going on in my neighborhood.

Then you are the perfect person to explain this:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-cases-per-million-since-1-per-million?yScale=linear&zoomToSelection=true&country=USA~ITA

I have chosen Italy as the EU example because they admitted they've made a couple of catastrophic mistakes in the beginning (the phase in which both curves are identical). But then the curves start to diverge. Why?

skidman

05-27-20, 02:56 PM

You're comparing us with countries that have 10% of our population and wondering why we have more cases? Really?

Yes . Really. The data plotted in my link is normalized "per capita". Obviously you have spent less than three seconds evaluating the graphs. Embarrassing, eh?

Rockstar

05-27-20, 03:30 PM

:up:

Yep, I guess the next logical next step for government to take. Is mandating the use of clothing impregnated with citronella wax and bathing twice a day in DEET. Oh and dont forget your mask! Government is your savior.

Platapus

05-27-20, 03:52 PM

August

05-27-20, 04:05 PM

Yes . Really. The data plotted in my link is normalized "per capita". Obviously you have spent less than three seconds evaluating the graphs. Embarrassing, eh?

Not really. I would have to care first.

Rockstar

05-27-20, 05:09 PM

Both the CDC and the WHO have stated that the chances of getting the SARS COV-2 virus from ,mosquitoes is very low. Primarily because the virus is primarily found in the respiratory system instead of the blood system.

However, neither organization has stated that it is impossible to get the virus from mosquitoes.

Best bet is to avoid mosquitoes who cough on you.

Hey good news for COVID but what about the other 725,000 humans killed each year from mosquito bites transmitting infectious disease? Only government can save our lives they should mandate everyone wear protective clothing and bathe in DEET during mosquito season. Off season bathing just once a day will suffice. Of course if you dont have business being outside you have to stay home too. Non-compliance will get you a fine or prison.

Bubble suits for everyone!

Skybird

05-27-20, 07:23 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52775216

The number of US servicemen and women killed in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan - over an aggregate 44 years of fighting is almost exactly the same as the number of Americans who've now lost their lives to coronavirus in just three months of America's war against (...) Covid-19.

Rockstar

05-27-20, 07:35 PM

Maybe, but COVID-19 and Korea combined cant hold a candle to the deaths caused by the war Germans started in WWII. We lost a a lot of soldiers and civilians fighting that disease too

Rockstar

05-27-20, 08:19 PM

https://www.reuters.com/news/archive/europe

https://www.france24.com/en/

https://www.bbc.com/news/coronavirus

Headlines and latest updates. Just by reading the comments here I didn't have to look what makes headlines over there. But can you guess whats at the top of the list on the ones I did look at? U.S. death count of 100,000 from COVID-19 as U.S. begins to open.

I looked at a lot more euro news sources and I couldn't find one mention anywhere of the 164,000 and more people that died from COVID-19 in Europe.

August

05-27-20, 08:21 PM

Hey good news for COVID but what about the other 725,000 humans killed each year from mosquito bites transmitting infectious disease? Only government can save our lives they should mandate everyone wear protective clothing and bathe in DEET during mosquito season. Off season bathing just once a day will suffice. Of course if you dont have business being outside you have to stay home too. Non-compliance will get you a fine or prison.

Bubble suits for everyone!

If it increases government power there will be some here who support it.

Skybird

05-28-20, 05:37 AM

Maybe, but COVID-19 and Korea combined cant hold a candle to the deaths caused by the war Germans started in WWII. We lost a a lot of soldiers and civilians fighting that disease too
The number of deaths in WWII dwarfens when comparing them to the number of deaths in the two thousand yeas before. Its all the Romans' fault.

Jimbuna

05-28-20, 05:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JifFhpqg-rQ

Jimbuna

05-28-20, 06:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6QG9u7L8Lw

Jimbuna

05-28-20, 06:03 AM

A "track and trace" system is set to start in England and Scotland on Thursday.

UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock says he believes the "vast majority of people" will self-isolate if told to.

The US has recorded more than 100,000 deaths from Covid-19, figures from Johns Hopkins University show.

Its 1.69m confirmed infections account for about 30% of the worldwide total.

New York City, especially hard hit, is seeing a drop in the death rate but one study shows it rising in 20 states.

A row over the UK PM's aide's personal travel during lockdown is continuing.

In South Korea, a new cluster has been growing linked to a logistics centre outside Seoul.

There have been more than 5,690,000 confirmed virus cases worldwide and 355,000 deaths, according to JHU.

Jimbuna

05-28-20, 06:11 AM

The number of passengers arriving in the UK by air in April was down 99% on the same month last year, according to a Home Office report.

Nissan is closing its factory in Barcelona with the loss of about 2,800 jobs, according to the Spanish government.

Lawmakers in France voted in favour of a new tracing app called StopCovid - despite concerns about digital privacy. It will be rolled out starting next week. Later today, Prime Minister Edouard Philippe will announce the next stage of easing the lockdown throughout the country.

The lockdown in Switzerland will be eased even further. As of Saturday groups of up to 30 people can meet, rising from five currently. "We need to stay humble, but I think we have the situation under control," Health Minister Alain Berset reportedly said.

Russia's recorded death toll has passed 4,000, with its confirmed case total rising to 379,051 - still the second-highest figure in the world. The reported number of dead is far lower than in other countries, but critics fear in reality it could be far higher.

About 400 people have escaped from a coronavirus quarantine centre in Malawi after complaining about its poor state, local media report.

At 111, Juana Zúñiga has become the oldest patient in Chile to recover from Covid-19.

Saudi Arabia has begun to ease a five-day nationwide lockdown imposed during the festival of Eid.