US Politics Thread 2016-2020 [Archive] - Page 6

Catfish

02-03-17, 01:11 PM

On a lighter note (for me). John Cleese writes to Trump:

Texasshire Floridashire, Louisianashire :haha:

John Cleese: Letter to the United States of America

To the citizens of the United States of America, in light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II resumes monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.

Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Theresa May, MP for the 97.8% of you who have, until now, been unaware there's a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America. Congress and the Senate are disbanded. A questionnaire circulated next year will determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid your transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. Look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Check "aluminium" in the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you pronounce it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour'. Likewise you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary." Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed." There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you should not have chat shows.

2. There is no such thing as "US English." We'll let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u'.

3. You should learn to distinguish English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). Scottish dramas such as 'Taggart' will no longer be broadcast with subtitles.You must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon." If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1.

5. You should stop playing American "football." There's only one kind of football. What you call American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.1% of you aware there is a world outside your borders may have noticed no one else plays "American" football. You should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every two seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies) You should stop playing baseball. It's not reasonable to host event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders," which is baseball without fancy team stripe, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

6. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns, or anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because you are not sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you need a permit to carry a vegetable peeler.

7. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday. It will be called "Indecisive Day."

8. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left. At the same time, you will go metric without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

9. Learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't French, they're Belgian though 97.8% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Potato chips are properly called "crisps." Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat.

10. The cold tasteless stuff you call beer is actually lager. Only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer." Substances once known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine," except for the product of the American Budweiser company which will be called "Weak Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine." This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

11. The UK will harmonise petrol prices (or "Gasoline," as you will be permitted to keep calling it) for those of the former USA, adopting UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon, get used to it).

12. Learn to resolve personal issues without guns, lawyers or therapists. That you need many lawyers and therapists shows you're not adult enough to be independent. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

13. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

14. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your co-operation.

* John Cleese [Basil Fawlty, Fawlty Towers, Sir Lancelot of Camelot (Monty Python & The Quest for the Holy Grail), Torquay, Devon, England]

(from: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/john-cleese-letter-united-states-america-rob-perik)

Yes i know it gets almost boring especially almost nothing happened today :haha:

Oberon

02-03-17, 01:13 PM

most are committed by mentally ill people who shouldn't be unsupervised, but it's not been politically correct to use sanitariums or asylums since the 60's and having someone declared incompetent so they can be committed involuntarily is very difficult.

Well, to be fair when you look at some of the treatment in those sanitariums and asylums, that's one of the reasons they fell out of favour. That being said, the cut backs in mental health care has taken its toll, and if nothing will be done about these peoples access to firearms then obviously something will have to be done about their access to mental health care up to and including major investment in mental health care centers which are affordable for all.
That probably won't happen, so I guess we just have to take a section of American society and write it off as collateral.

Oberon

02-03-17, 01:15 PM

Didn't the ACLU use to be the communist party back in the early 1900's?

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civil_Liberties_Bureau

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 01:20 PM

Is this breaking news?:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/3/new-york-times-and-aclu-encounter-record-breaking-/

Didn't the ACLU use to be the communist party back in the early 1900's?

No. The ACLU was born from the National Civil Liberties Bureau, which had the primary function of providing legal representation for conscientious objectors. After being reformed under the banner ACLU it broadened its representation to include African Americans, Jewish Americans, Jehovah's Witnesses, and, yes, even communist and socialist groups among its clients. But it was never a political party, let alone a communist political party.

I have to ask if Prager University teaches any courses on 20th Century American history at all.

Onkel Neal

02-03-17, 01:22 PM

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 01:24 PM

Oberon

02-03-17, 01:30 PM

LOL.. strategically they're not in very good shape for armed conflict. most of them are backed up against the Atlantic or Pacific coasts with no way to support each other, while the rest are surrounded. Although the Michigan contingent could be supplied via Canada, I guess Hawaii would only hold out as long as the spam did.

It's all fun and games until one of those liberal geeks hacks the Pentagon.

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 01:33 PM

It's all fun and games until one of those liberal geeks hacks the Pentagon.

I'm still in a sort of culture shock at how seriously InfoWars is treated in the Trump bubble. That link was posted and nobody batted an eye. I'll wager that you get slammed for the Wikipedia link though.

Mr Quatro

02-03-17, 01:35 PM

Didn't the ACLU use to be the communist party back in the early 1900's?

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Civil_Liberties_Bureau

No. The ACLU was born from the National Civil Liberties Bureau, which had the primary function of providing legal representation for conscientious objectors. After being reformed under the banner ACLU it broadened its representation to include African Americans, Jewish Americans, Jehovah's Witnesses, and, yes, even communist and socialist groups among its clients. But it was never a political party, let alone a communist political party.

I have to ask if Prager University teaches any courses on 20th Century American history at all.

I see ... thank you for your response:
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/01/04/unearthed-letters-link-aclu-founders-to-communist-party/

Newly discovered declassified letters found in the Soviet Comintern archives seem to link early leaders of the
American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) with the Communist Party

Dear Bill [Foster], May 23, 1931

Dr. Harry ward, chairman of this organization, is going to Russia in august to make a six or seven months’ study of a type which nobody has done. Dr. Ward is, as you perhaps know, the author of several books on the profit motive. He has demolished it theoretically. Now he wants to demolish it practically by evidence from Soviet Russia.

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 01:40 PM

I see ... thank you for your response:
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/01/04/unearthed-letters-link-aclu-founders-to-communist-party/

That demonstrates, if we are to take Glenn Beck's word for it, that some people who worked for the ACLU had ties with communist parties. That does not demonstrate that the ACLU was a communist party organization. Personally, I'm not putting much stock in an article which cites as its source another article accusing the ACLU of having a "Stalinist past". I place it next to racial eugenics and the idea that somebody's god murdered millions of people so that a politically affable nation state could be created, in the dust bin of disgusting and rejected ideas.

Next.

MaDef

02-03-17, 02:13 PM

That demonstrates, if we are to take Glenn Beck's word for it, that some people who worked for the ACLU had ties with communist parties. That does not demonstrate that the ACLU was a communist party organization. Personally, I'm not putting much stock in an article which cites as its source another article accusing the ACLU of having a "Stalinist past". I place it next to racial eugenics and the idea that somebody's god murdered millions of people so that a politically affable nation state could be created, in the dust bin of disgusting and rejected ideas.

Next.They've defended the KKK, does that mean they're racist?

Oberon

02-03-17, 02:16 PM

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bD0gt8dhFDQ/V1CocyP1evI/AAAAAAAAAkg/bc9-A7Wo7rkITQSqsUOmAPqYiHVSoMkqQCLcB/s1600/xkcd-citation_needed.png

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 02:19 PM

They've defended the KKK, does that mean they're racist?

They've also defended the use of the Confederate Flag, Chick-Fil-A, The Westboro Baptist Church, the Washington Redskins and Rush Limbaugh. How quickly you all forget when they're defending someone or something you don't like. Personally, I find the ACLU to be an honest broker; one of the few remaining in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/19/a-history-of-the-aclu-defending-confederate-veterans-the-kkk-and-rush-limbaugh/?utm_term=.f2715e077281

Mr Quatro

02-03-17, 02:30 PM

This is right. We seem to have more crazies and we are doing less about them.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obamacare-mental-health-225445

America’s mental health system is having a breakdown. Suicide rates are at a record high; drug addiction is epidemic. There aren’t enough therapists, particularly not enough who accept insurance. And too often the most vulnerable and severely ill end up on the streets, or fill our prisons and jails.

But for the roughly 43 million people in the United States who suffer from mental health problems each year, the bottom line is that most still aren’t getting treatment.

I heard a rumor and I can't link to rumor, but I heard that non mental patients are saying that they have known mental illness signs to get the drugs the normal mental patient (normal mental patient?) needs and then trades the drugs for money or other drugs with the neighborhood drug dealer, which could number in the high numbers and you can't do anything about that either.

They should change the name of the drug enforcement agency DEA, to the drug education agency and start with the five year olds to have a better society 20 years from now. :yep:

MaDef

02-03-17, 02:31 PM

Well, to be fair when you look at some of the treatment in those sanitariums and asylums, that's one of the reasons they fell out of favour. That being said, the cut backs in mental health care has taken its toll, and if nothing will be done about these peoples access to firearms then obviously something will have to be done about their access to mental health care up to and including major investment in mental health care centers which are affordable for all.
That probably won't happen, so I guess we just have to take a section of American society and write it off as collateral.Not trying to lay blame, just pointing out that deinstitutionalization is a major factor in these situations.
(now that's a 2 dollar word). Might be time to look into bringing them back on a limited basis.

AVGWarhawk

02-03-17, 02:31 PM

It appears that John Cleese will be joining this week's additions to the Axis of Evil, alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Schumer, Sally Yates and the Commonwealth of Australia. The list grows.

Yes, each and everyone I respect their opinion. Similar to the Hollywood elite.

AVGWarhawk

02-03-17, 02:33 PM

That demonstrates, if we are to take Glenn Beck's word for it, that some people who worked for the ACLU had ties with communist parties. That does not demonstrate that the ACLU was a communist party organization. Personally, I'm not putting much stock in an article which cites as its source another article accusing the ACLU of having a "Stalinist past". I place it next to racial eugenics and the idea that somebody's god murdered millions of people so that a politically affable nation state could be created, in the dust bin of disgusting and rejected ideas.

Next.

Glen Beck is an idiot. Please tell me you do not watch that clown.

Mr Quatro

02-03-17, 02:34 PM

Yes, each and everyone I respect their opinion. Similar to the Hollywood elite.

When are you going to learn how to use smilies? :D

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 02:35 PM

Glen Beck is an idiot. Please tell me you do not watch that clown.

I have no idea why you would even ask that question. Did I link TheBlaze as a source?

MaDef

02-03-17, 02:36 PM

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bD0gt8dhFDQ/V1CocyP1evI/AAAAAAAAAkg/bc9-A7Wo7rkITQSqsUOmAPqYiHVSoMkqQCLcB/s1600/xkcd-citation_needed.png
2012
the American Civil Liberties Union of Eastern Missouri filed a federal lawsuit against the City of Cape Girardeau on behalf of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (TAK). TAK members had planned to place handbills on the windshields of parked cars on Sept. 28, until they discovered this is considered a crime by the City of Cape Girardeau.

Mr Quatro

02-03-17, 02:37 PM

I have no idea why you would even ask that question. Did I link TheBlaze as a source?

I am the guilty one ... just trying to find the truth :yep:

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 02:39 PM

I am the guilty one ... just trying to find the truth :yep:

Obviously up the wrong tree if you're running to Glenn Beck for "truth".

MaDef

02-03-17, 02:39 PM

Takeda Shingen, that was a backhanded way of agreeing with you.

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 02:41 PM

MaDef, that was a straightforward way of stating that I didn't appreciate your backhand.

MaDef

02-03-17, 02:45 PM

understood,

mental note: always take the opposite position that Takeda Shingen articulates.:D

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 02:46 PM

understood,

mental note: always take the opposite position that Takeda Shingen articulates.:D

It's what you've been doing so far. I don't need help from the Trump bubble. :D

Catfish

02-03-17, 03:25 PM

"2/3s of Trump's women have a migration background.
Which is evidence that you need immigrants, since there have to be people doing the job no one else wants." :haha:

Oberon

02-03-17, 03:44 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3udH6YWMAAtGvf.jpg:large

:hmmm:

Oberon

02-03-17, 03:54 PM

2012

I meant the communism thing, but yeah, there is that...but, I guess if they didn't then they'd probably get slammed for being overly political. They also apparently represented Nazis, the Redskins, Rush Limbaugh, the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Tea Party.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/19/a-history-of-the-aclu-defending-confederate-veterans-the-kkk-and-rush-limbaugh/

AVGWarhawk

02-03-17, 03:57 PM

When are you going to learn how to use smilies? :D

:D:D:D

AVGWarhawk

02-03-17, 03:59 PM

I have no idea why you would even ask that question. Did I link TheBlaze as a source?

You read the Blaze also? Tak....come on man. :D I knew you did not watch Beck. :up: That guy is nut job.

Slow news day....good look at Trumps hair today....:doh:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/02/03/side-effects-of-the-drug-trump-reportedly-takes-for-hair-loss/

AVGWarhawk

02-03-17, 04:01 PM

MaDef, that was a straightforward way of stating that I didn't appreciate your backhand.

He was not much of a tennis player anyway. :D

MaDef

02-03-17, 04:34 PM

I meant the communism thing, but yeah, there is that...but, I guess if they didn't then they'd probably get slammed for being overly political. They also apparently represented Nazis, the Redskins, Rush Limbaugh, the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Tea Party.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/19/a-history-of-the-aclu-defending-confederate-veterans-the-kkk-and-rush-limbaugh/the communism thing came from some of the founders being socialists and Baldwin is credited with the following quote
I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is, of course, the goal.” ACLU founder Roger Baldwin, 1935

yubba

02-03-17, 04:39 PM

Takeda Shingen

02-03-17, 05:11 PM

You read the Blaze also? Tak....come on man. :D I knew you did not watch Beck. :up: That guy is nut job.

Slow news day....good look at Trumps hair today....:doh:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/02/03/side-effects-of-the-drug-trump-reportedly-takes-for-hair-loss/

A 10-second Google search would have yielded the fact that TheBlaze is, in fact, Glenn Beck's news outlet. He owns it. He founded it. And, again, no. Your friend was the one linking to it. I said it was suspect. Perhaps you need to read the exchange again.

I am not interested in Trump's hair.

Catfish

02-03-17, 05:18 PM

Germans buy illegal guns to protect themselves from migrant attacks,,,:hmmm: you don't say.. gee one would have thought they would have had their civil war by now,, any how got mine,, 8 years running Obama,, gun salesman of the year.
[...]

No, all the western european citizens are buying guns to shoot down the rightists, the article is just written to cover that up.
"It has begun."

Nippelspanner

02-03-17, 05:36 PM

Germans buy illegal guns to protect themselves from migrant attacks,,,:hmmm: you don't say.. gee one would have thought they would have had their civil war by now,, any how got mine,, 8 years running Obama,, gun salesman of the year.

I see alot of quotes from the Washington Compost,, see they broke 3 million in readership ,,wow.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/report-germans-buying-illegal-guns-to-protect-themselves-from-migrant-attacks.html
What bs.

First of all, every German age 18+ can have firearms if he wants. I can have pistols, revolvers, hunting rifles, shotguns and rifles for sport, also semi auto ones, etc.

The only "Germans" (we are over 80 million, I would love to hear your numbers behind "Germans are buying illegal guns") that need to buy guns illegally are those that broke the law or are under 18.

And what civil war?!
I see neither reason nor indications for anything like a civil war over here. Maybe you should start to lay off the right wing fear mongering propaganda material for a while.

Educate yourself before you spread your nonsense. The "Germans can't have guns!" thing is getting a little old by now.

mapuc

02-03-17, 06:27 PM

yubba

02-03-17, 06:58 PM

No, all the western european citizens are buying guns to shoot down the rightists, the article is just written to cover that up.
"It has begun."

if I'm not mistaken your rightist,, are our leftist,,, I guess that's what you get driving on the wrong side of the road...:doh:

yubba

02-03-17, 07:04 PM

Each day when I enter Subsim and GT I see this thread grow by 3-6 page each day and 2-4 page during the evening.

It has somehow taken me by surprise that US-politics was such a hot stuff.

How was the debate after Obama had won the Presidential election in 2008 Was it at same level ?

Markus

It's the constant struggle against good and the evil that corrupt people do ,, like this

http://themindunleashed.com/2017/02/breaking-474-arrested-california-child-trafficking-sting.html

Rockstar

02-03-17, 07:17 PM

https://theamericanreligion.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/wtf-gif-tumblr-i2.gif

August

02-03-17, 07:47 PM

On a lighter note (for me). John Cleese writes to Trump:

:) This old joke has been updated I see:

Here's the version from 2012 with a picture of the queen even:
https://www.michaelyon-online.com/a-message-from-the-queen.htm

Oberon

02-03-17, 08:29 PM

http://www.eclectablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/AdaminiFacebook.png

Typical Liberal, inciting violence!

http://www.eclectablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/AdaminiTweet.png

Oberon

02-03-17, 08:31 PM

No, all the western european citizens are buying guns to shoot down the rightists, the article is just written to cover that up.
"It has begun."

Germany is preparing for World War III when it will liberate the world from fascism. :yep:

Buddahaid

02-03-17, 08:52 PM

Germany is preparing for World War III when it will liberate the world from fascism. :yep:

You say the nicest things...
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/say-nice-things-and-smile.png

Rockstar

02-03-17, 08:59 PM

PUPPIES!

http://i.giphy.com/PjQFtJnmdOlwI.gif

Buddahaid

02-03-17, 09:19 PM

YOU are not interested in puppies I fear.:Kaleun_Salute:

On the serious note, I'm not against all that has transpired since Trump came into office, and I'll admit I think the media is screwing itself trying hard to find fault in any way, but at the same time, it's not all rubbish. I don't believe I've experienced such a divided country since Vietnam!

Interestingly, while Hollywood entertainers seem to be condemning Trump as a whole if headlines count for anything, blockbuster movies that get made are largely good against evil, us against them, right against wrong, justice against injustice, or, rogue dark heroes breaking the law to fight evil, wrong, and injustice. This idea is continually reinforced in everything all forms of media produce! Is it any wonder this is how politics play out? I think, and hope, there is much more common ground than areas of dispute if one looks beyond the hyperbola.

Rockstar

02-03-17, 10:42 PM

http://i.giphy.com/3osxY5gYSv7oUDTHWg.gif

Onkel Neal

02-03-17, 11:49 PM

vienna

02-04-17, 01:45 AM

slow news day so far, so let's deal with this.

I don't agree. (surprise, surprise :ping:).

Better to fire her right away, before most are even aware of the story. First, it plays to his base, but more importantly it becomes a one day story.

If he had left her in place, you would have endless stories about democrats and journalists discussing what she should do. She might have continued issuing statements, giving interviews, etc. You would then have stories on the other side about would should be done about her. It then becomes a multi-day story.

The main problem there is that Trump's own AG pick, Sessions, was very likely to have been approved and passed on the day following the firing; once Trump acted and fired Yates, he stirred up even more opposition, needlessly, and here we are, four days later and no confirmation and there appears there will be an even longer wait: the mutiny of GOP Senators over the nomination of Betsy DeVos to Trump's cabinet means the GOP will have to hold off Sessions' final confirmation because the GOP desperately needs his vote in the Senate to even have a chance of confirming DeVos:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/trump-cabinet-tracker/510527/

Strategically, if Trump had just ignored Yates, Sessions could have taken the AG office the next day and Yates would have faded by the next news cycle; instead, Trump gave his opponents further ammo and gave a greater coalescence to the Left, creating greater possible future headaches further down the line, including giving the Left one more talking point in the arguments leading up to the 2018 Mid-Terms...

So, if Trump had ignored Yates, Sessions would have coasted into the AG slot and it would, indeed, have been a one-day story; instead, Trump acted predictably, and foolishly, and turned a "footnote story" into a rallying point. The logic and benefit of doing nothing was so simple it is surprising none of his advisers pointed out to Trump; or perhaps, they did and Trump the Truculent again thought he knew more than anyone else and again shot himself in the keister...

Again I don't agree. There is no similarity.

Nixon's order to fire the special prosecutor was on the face of it illegal and Richardson had no choice but to refuse.

This is a totally different issue, the immigration ban is legal, both on a Constitutional and statutory basis (whether it is a smart play is another issue). Yates stand was purely political and had no basis in law.

The legality and/or Constitutionality of the ban was not affirmatively adjudicated and, given the several injunctions issued on the matter since the ban was initiated, including the most recent nationwide injunction issued by a Federal Judge appointed to his bench by GW Bush, the matter was never really very clear in the first place, so Yates' reluctance to enforce the ban will be seen as being not beyond the pale and really perfectly reasonable and gives further fodder for Trump's opponents; whether Yates was correct or not still has to be adjudicated in the courts of law and the US is above all, a nation built on respect for the law, not the whims of whoever sits in the Oval Office, of any party...

And as far as Nixon's actions are concerned, he, too, held that his demand to fire Cox was lawful and Constitutional and, IIRC, he and his cronies tried very hard to make a legal and Constitutional case for the firing demand, but then as now, the courts, not the President or Congress, decides what is or is not properly Constitutional and that fact can be found in, of all places, The Constitution...

<O>

Sailor Steve

02-04-17, 02:17 AM

the courts, not the President or Congress, decides what is or is not properly Constitutional and that fact can be found in, of all places, The Constitution...
Could you please show me where? It's been my understanding that it was up in the air until John Marshall managed to appropriate that in Marbury vs Madison. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see the Constitution being very specific on that.

vienna

02-04-17, 03:08 AM

Could you please show me where? It's been my understanding that it was up in the air until John Marshall managed to appropriate that in Marbury vs Madison. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see the Constitution being very specific on that.

Steve, you are right (not in the political sense); it is not explicitly there in the Constitution, I spoke too broadly, and I stand corrected and I apologize for any confusion; you are additionally correct about Marbury: it did define and coalesce the primacy of the judiciary in matters of Constitutionality:

It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department [the judicial branch] to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Courts must decide on the operation of each.

So, if a law [e.g., a statute or treaty] be in opposition to the Constitution, if both the law and the Constitution apply to a particular case, so that the Court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the Constitution, or conformably to the Constitution, disregarding the law, the Court must determine which of these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty. If, then, the Courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the Legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.

Those, then, who controvert the principle that the Constitution is to be considered in court as a paramount law are reduced to the necessity of maintaining that courts must close their eyes on the Constitution, and see only the law [e.g., the statute or treaty].

This doctrine would subvert the very foundation of all written constitutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison#cite_ref-33

By the above, neither the POTUS nor Congress are the final arbiters of Constitutionality and neither is any action taken by them automatically legal or Constitutional until the courts, ultimately the SCOTUS, have adjudicated the action. Trump's ban was not automatically legal and/or Constitutional and was properly questioned by the Acting-AG in her role as head of the Justice Department; doing so was just part of her job; neither the AG or any other Cabinet member is required by law or the Constitution to merely be 'rubber stamps' for the POTUS, and have been viewed as advisers and counsel to the President and are expected to give honest opinions, even if POTUS may not like what they are hearing; above all else, loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law supersede any sort of loyalty to whoever sits in the Oval Office...

Again, Steve, sorry for the confusion...

<O>

vienna

02-04-17, 04:42 AM

Castout

02-04-17, 05:49 AM

This is what happens when you give guy a new toy and he doesn't read the manual:

That sounds like being a human. None of us came with manuals so we are all messed up.

vienna

02-04-17, 06:10 AM

The thing about that is the President of the US, in his official duties and obligations, has a lot less leeway when it comes to being human; "oops" just doesn't cut it when it comes to governance and the rule of law; there is just too much at stake to not cross all the "t's" and not dot all the "i's"; from the conduct of Trump in regards to executive orders, it would appear neither he nor his staff nor his much vaunted advisors have given any effort to even a cursory review of what is entailed in the conduct of the POTUS and the obligation and responsibilities other prior Presidents apparently took much more seriously; if sloppy, half-baked, cockeyed work is what you seek, then Trump will not fail to satisfy...

<O>

yubba

02-04-17, 07:25 AM

This is what happens when you give guy a new toy and he doesn't read the manual:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/03/trump-muslim-ban-executive-order-violated-executive-order-about-executive-orders/

:haha:

<O>

And yet you chose to remain mute,, when the last child chose to rip up the manual and tried to make a new one based on mob rule.

Bilge_Rat

02-04-17, 07:39 AM

This is what happens when you give guy a new toy and he doesn't read the manual:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/03/trump-muslim-ban-executive-order-violated-executive-order-about-executive-orders/

<O>

No, that is false. That journalist either does not know how the Constitution works and/or is making a political statement.

The President derives his power from the Consitution. A EO is just an expression of the President's power so one President cannot bind his successor with an EO. Trump is free to rescind and replace every EO ever put out by his predecessor and there is no formality involved.

Bilge_Rat

02-04-17, 08:20 AM

Now on the Legality of Trump's EO, it is true that the Courts are the ultimate arbitrer, but the Constitution has been around long enough and there have been enough judicial decisions to have a pretty good idea of what POTUS can and cannot do.

The Constitution grants to POTUS the executive power, he is commander of the armed forces, he has the duty to protect the USA. The Courts have determined that POTUS has nearly absolute jurisdiction on all matters outside of the USA and dealing with foreign govts, unless the Constitution specifically carves out that power to Congress, i.e. ratifying Treaties.

Under Obama, we saw an expansion of that power. Obama greatly expanded the Drone program which lead to the targeted killing of around 8,000 foreign nationals deemed by POTUS to be a threat to national security. Now, we know there were also many innocent civilians killed, men, women and children, from several hundreds or several thousands, depending on the source.

Obama also determined he had the power to kill U.S. citizens abroad which were deemed to be a security risk and he exercised that power a few time.

There was some grumbling in the Press over those actions, but no one seriously questioned that POTUS has very broad powers to act against what he perceives to be a security threat.

Obviously, if POTUS has the power to kill foreign nationals, he also has the power to stop them from entering U.S. territory as Courts have consistently ruled.

Now on the recent challenges, there are many grounds, but the only one that has a real shot is that it is a disguised "Muslim Ban" and therefore discrimination on religious grounds. Personally, I think it has very little chance of success, but let's game it out. Let's assume courts ultimately assume that the order is unconstitutional because it discriminates on religious grounds, what would that mean?

Basically, the Courts for the first time ever would be recognizing that foreign nationals have an inherent right to demand entry to the USA. There are an estimated 5 million Syrian refugees, let's assume all apply to enter the USA and all are refused. In theory, they could then apply to U.S. courts on the grounds that they are being refused entry on religious grounds, the onus would then be on the U.S. govt to show bona fide reasons why they are not being let in.

In effect, instead of the onus being on refugees/immigrants to show why they should be let in, the onus would shift to the U.S. government to show why they should be kept out. So the long term effect would be that the U.S. governement would lose control over the border.

Anti-Trumpers are so determined to stop whatever Trump is doing now, that they don't stop to think what the long term effect will be.

Onkel Neal

02-04-17, 09:21 AM

Under Obama, we saw an expansion of that power. Obama greatly expanded the Drone program which lead to the targeted killing of around 8,000 foreign nationals deemed by POTUS to be a threat to national security. Now, we know there were also many innocent civilians killed, men, women and children, from several hundreds or several thousands, depending on the source.

Obama also determined he had the power to kill U.S. citizens abroad which were deemed to be a security risk and he exercised that power a few time.

Yes, true. And yet, where were the protests and outcry from the left? Quiet as church mice.

I wouldlove to be a fly on the wall at the Trump HQ after the Washington federal judge put out that restraining order. I bet the Sacred One is having a meltdown :haha: Would not surprise me if Trump hits back with some kind of order to the FAA shutting down all flights from the terrorist-rich countries on his list.

Oberon

02-04-17, 09:33 AM

I wouldlove to be a fly on the wall at the Trump HQ after the Washington federal judge put out that restraining order. I bet the Sacred One is having a meltdown :haha:

You don't need to be a fly on the wall, just look at his twitter feed! :haha:

Rockstar

02-04-17, 09:37 AM

The main problem there is that Trump's own AG pick, Sessions, was very likely to have been approved and passed on the day following the firing; once Trump acted and fired Yates, he stirred up even more opposition, needlessly, and here we are, four days later and no confirmation and there appears there will be an even longer wait: the mutiny of GOP Senators over the nomination of Betsy DeVos to Trump's cabinet means the GOP will have to hold off Sessions' final confirmation because the GOP desperately needs his vote in the Senate to even have a chance of confirming DeVos:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/trump-cabinet-tracker/510527/

Strategically, if Trump had just ignored Yates, Sessions could have taken the AG office the next day and Yates would have faded by the next news cycle; instead, Trump gave his opponents further ammo and gave a greater coalescence to the Left, creating greater possible future headaches further down the line, including giving the Left one more talking point in the arguments leading up to the 2018 Mid-Terms...

So, if Trump had ignored Yates, Sessions would have coasted into the AG slot and it would, indeed, have been a one-day story; instead, Trump acted predictably, and foolishly, and turned a "footnote story" into a rallying point. The logic and benefit of doing nothing was so simple it is surprising none of his advisers pointed out to Trump; or perhaps, they did and Trump the Truculent again thought he knew more than anyone else and again shot himself in the keister...

The legality and/or Constitutionality of the ban was not affirmatively adjudicated and, given the several injunctions issued on the matter since the ban was initiated, including the most recent nationwide injunction issued by a Federal Judge appointed to his bench by GW Bush, the matter was never really very clear in the first place, so Yates' reluctance to enforce the ban will be seen as being not beyond the pale and really perfectly reasonable and gives further fodder for Trump's opponents; whether Yates was correct or not still has to be adjudicated in the courts of law and the US is above all, a nation built on respect for the law, not the whims of whoever sits in the Oval Office, of any party...

And as far as Nixon's actions are concerned, he, too, held that his demand to fire Cox was lawful and Constitutional and, IIRC, he and his cronies tried very hard to make a legal and Constitutional case for the firing demand, but then as now, the courts, not the President or Congress, decides what is or is not properly Constitutional and that fact can be found in, of all places, The Constitution...

<O>

As reasonable as it may have seemed to you that Yates lack of action and defience should have just been ignored. Her job was in the executive branch of government her boss is the president. Her purpose was to serve the executive branch, to give advice and enforce the policy of the federal government. Sessions appointment, mid-terms, or what political rags and hacks might say down the road doesn't have jack squat do with what happens to her. Yates's defience, taking matters into her own hands and not doing her job should be much more concerning to everyone than anything else at hand. The checks and balances in place to prevent her from doing what she did again was to fire her on the spot, and rightfully so.

Now if she would have done her job she could have watched the process unfold as it should. Federal judges in the lower courts giving their opinion on the matter. That is how the ball gets rolling for this issue to go to before the SCOTUS to look at the legalities of the immigrtion ban.

Onkel Neal

02-04-17, 10:27 AM

You don't need to be a fly on the wall, just look at his twitter feed! :haha:

Where? I don't do Twitter, I only learn about that on news sites. :oops:

Jimbuna

02-04-17, 10:37 AM

Where? I don't do Twitter, I only learn about that on news sites. :oops:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5E serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
More
The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!

MaDef

02-04-17, 10:46 AM

By the above, neither the POTUS nor Congress are the final arbiters of Constitutionality and neither is any action taken by them automatically legal or Constitutional until the courts, ultimately the SCOTUS, have adjudicated the action. Trump's ban was not automatically legal and/or Constitutional and was properly questioned by the Acting-AG in her role as head of the Justice Department; doing so was just part of her job; neither the AG or any other Cabinet member is required by law or the Constitution to merely be 'rubber stamps' for the POTUS, and have been viewed as advisers and counsel to the President and are expected to give honest opinions, even if POTUS may not like what they are hearing; above all else, loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law supersede any sort of loyalty to whoever sits in the Oval Office...

Again, Steve, sorry for the confusion...I beg to differ, AG's job is to decide if a reasonable argument can be made to defend the president's actions (in this case an EO), and then to present that argument in court. It's not the AG's job to determine what's legal and what isn't, that decision is reserved for Judges. If the AG feels they can't make a cogent argument, they need to resign.

What kind of mess do you think would ensue if every attorney tasked with upholding the laws followed Yates' example, and chose which laws they would uphold based on personal feelings?

MaDef

02-04-17, 11:01 AM

Yes, true. And yet, where were the protests and outcry from the left? Quiet as church mice.

I wouldlove to be a fly on the wall at the Trump HQ after the Washington federal judge put out that restraining order. I bet the Sacred One is having a meltdown :haha: Would not surprise me if Trump hits back with some kind of order to the FAA shutting down all flights from the terrorist-rich countries on his list.

Looks like someone went judge shopping. If this makes it to the Supreme Court through the 9th circuit there's an 80% chance the Supreme Court will overturn it.

Bilge_Rat

02-04-17, 11:17 AM

someone really has to tear Trump's phone away from him. Calling a judge a "so called judge" is getting close to contempt of court, the last thing Trump needs.

No matter how we may feel, the judge is only doing his job. At the " temporary stay" stage, the legal standard is totally diferent, plaintiff only has to show the order may cause immediate harm to individuals (which it does)and that the action has a reasonable chance to succeed at trial (which it may, slim, but possible).

It is relatively easy to get a temporary stay, but also easy to overturn. A judge in Boston issued a temporary stay last weekend, but last night another judge looking at the merits of the action lifted the stay once he determined the EO was legal and the plaintiffs had no reasonable chance to succeed at trial.

The EO is headed to the Supreme Court one way or another.

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 11:26 AM

Just want to take a moment aside from the armchair constitutional lawyering and demonization to stand in solidarity with the victims of the Bowling Green Massacre. May their names never be forgotten.

August

02-04-17, 11:33 AM

The EO is headed to the Supreme Court one way or another.

Before or after Gorsuch takes his seat on the court?

August

02-04-17, 11:35 AM

Oberon

02-04-17, 11:36 AM

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 11:37 AM

Hmmm, that must have happened in one of Obamas extra seven states.

I wonder if space-time alteration was involved again. :hmmm:

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 11:39 AM

May Frederick Douglasses sing them to thy sleep. :salute:

Douglass' silence on this tragedy is the real tragedy. Why is the media not reporting on that?

August

02-04-17, 11:40 AM

I wonder if space-time alteration was involved again. :hmmm:

Washington DC should be in it's own time zone. :yep:

Nippelspanner

02-04-17, 11:41 AM

Yes, true. And yet, where were the protests and outcry from the left? Quiet as church mice.

Can't speak for your country, but Germans see drones very critical and I had many debates about them, trying to educate people that drones, technically, are awesome - the doctrine the US applies is just "questionable" to say the very least. Personally, I criticized what America does with drones heavily, also here at subsim.
But then again, I'm not "the left".

Of course, for people who live or see politics as if it is a superbowl match where it's "us against them", facts matter less and generalizations that make the wildest claims are not only so very convenient, they are also giving this nice feeling of unity, don't they? ;)

Nothing of this will fix any countries problems, though.

Oh, and to answer your question:
Anti drone protests (https://www.google.de/search?q=anti+drone+protests&client=ms-android-sonymobile&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd7NWn8fbRAhXiK5oKHaapCgAQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=511)

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 11:41 AM

Washington DC should be in it's own time zone. :yep:

At this point I'd like to see Washington DC moved to its own plane of existence. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue seems to have already moved there.

August

02-04-17, 12:38 PM

At this point I'd like to see Washington DC moved to its own plane of existence. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue seems to have already moved there.

Well it can't be worse than the plane it was on previously.

yubba

02-04-17, 12:52 PM

Just want to take a moment aside from the armchair constitutional lawyering and demonization to stand in solidarity with the victims of the Bowling Green Massacre. May their names never be forgotten.

Sorta like it was a video's fault, that came out of that 57th state where you have to pass bills to see what are in them and if you like your plan you can keep it and remember you didn't build that. , people miss speak all the time,, people who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones..

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 01:44 PM

Sorta like it was a video's fault, that came out of that 57th state where you have to pass bills to see what are in them and if you like your plan you can keep it and remember you didn't build that. , people miss speak all the time,, people who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones..

Or more of a case of the administration attempting to sell the American public on an executive order by creating a non-existent terrorist attack and railing against the lugenpresse for not covering it. You know, alternative facts and all that.

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 01:46 PM

Well it can't be worse than the plane it was on previously.

Oh I disagree with that. I didn't have to flee the country in 2001, 2005, 2009 or 2013.

Mr Quatro

02-04-17, 01:58 PM

Steve, you are right (not in the political sense); it is not explicitly there in the Constitution, I spoke too broadly, and I stand corrected and I apologize for any confusion;

Again, Steve, sorry for the confusion...

<O>

Each thread should have it's own stickies and this would be my favorite for the US Politics thread :yep:

Good job there on the apology vienna :up:

yubba

02-04-17, 02:02 PM

Each thread should have it's own stickies and this would be my favorite for the US Politics thread :yep:

Good job there on the apology vienna :up:

Yes you ,, could even use this before you speak out against Trump so you don't look foolish..

http://www.infowars.com/75-times-obama-broke-law-during-presidency/

yubba

02-04-17, 02:07 PM

Or more of a case of the administration attempting to sell the American public on an executive order by creating a non-existent terrorist attack and railing against the lugenpresse for not covering it. You know, alternative facts and all that.

Oh,, like Obama financing a coup in the Urkraine with tax payer money, and claimed Russia as the aggressor., dang I didn't know it was that much.,,

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486235139867&tpr=sc&searchfor=Obama+finances+coup+in+Ukraine&ots=1486235142489

Mr Quatro

02-04-17, 02:09 PM

Just want to take a moment aside from the armchair constitutional lawyering and demonization to stand in solidarity with the victims of the Bowling Green Massacre. May their names never be forgotten.

You should use a smillie once in a while ... I had to google this problem. I've been busy with other matters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/03/kellyanne-conway-cites-bowling-green-massacre-that-never-happened-to-defend-travel-ban/

I forgive her, but this is grounds for separation of Kellyanne Conway from the inner circle. If Trump fired her I bet she would turn on him (knowing women the way I do that is) :yep:

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 02:21 PM

Oh,, like Obama financing a coup in the Urkraine with tax payer money, and claimed Russia as the aggressor., dang I didn't know it was that much.,,

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486235139867&tpr=sc&searchfor=Obama+finances+coup+in+Ukraine&ots=1486235142489

Are you aware of the fact that the article you linked to states directly that this claim is 100% false? It even says so at the top of the very page.

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 02:24 PM

You should use a smillie once in a while ... I had to google this problem. I've been busy with other matters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/03/kellyanne-conway-cites-bowling-green-massacre-that-never-happened-to-defend-travel-ban/

I forgive her, but this is grounds for separation of Kellyanne Conway from the inner circle. If Trump fired her I bet she would turn on him (knowing women the way I do that is) :yep:

Following up the racism of the past few days with misogyny. You're a real keeper.

Tchocky

02-04-17, 03:07 PM

Hey Tak. All well?

yubba

02-04-17, 03:18 PM

Are you aware of the fact that the article you linked to states directly that this claim is 100% false? It even says so at the top of the very page.

Oh,, did you check the rest of them,, it was this one I click on the wrong one sorry.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486235139867&tpr=sc&searchfor=Obama+finances+coup+in+Ukraine&ots=1486235142489

yubba

02-04-17, 03:22 PM

Are you aware of the fact that the article you linked to states directly that this claim is 100% false? It even says so at the top of the very page.

since you are fact checkin did she actually say this..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=200&pictureid=9338

yubba

02-04-17, 03:30 PM

Following up the racism of the past few days with misogyny. You're a real keeper.

didn't know a religion was a race,,, Islam is just as much a political idiotology as a religion,, so it races to protect our selves now ,,nice

Catfish

02-04-17, 03:34 PM

Judge Robart blocks Trump's immigation ban.
On Saturday, normal air service resumed following Judge Robart's decision, which Trump blasted in a series of tweets as "ridiculous."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/us/politics/visa-ban-trump-judge-james-robart.html?_r=0 :hmmm:

So, is or was Trump's decision for the ban constitutional, or not. And what power have judges to stop his decrees?
What does the US constitution say about Trump's ban. Is it even legal.

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 04:00 PM

since you are fact checkin did she actually say this..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=200&pictureid=9338

By all accounts, no, she did not actually state that. You're 0 for 2 today. Anything else?

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 04:02 PM

Hey Tak. All well?

Great seeing you Tchocky. Hope you're doing better than ever.

Takeda Shingen

02-04-17, 04:05 PM

Oh,, did you check the rest of them,, it was this one I click on the wrong one sorry.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486235139867&tpr=sc&searchfor=Obama+finances+coup+in+Ukraine&ots=1486235142489

You're trying to rebunk your already debunked claim? Get out of here. Don't waste my time.

mapuc

02-04-17, 05:08 PM

According to some Danish expert on US-politics, Trump could have made this decree without consulting his Minister of Justice or some other with expertise in that area.

He said Obama made the same mistake some years ago, when he made a decree that gave a million illegal aliens some rights but a Federal judge in Texas said it was against the law.

Markus

vienna

02-04-17, 08:50 PM

Yes you ,, could even use this before you speak out against Trump so you do look foolish..

http://www.infowars.com/75-times-obama-broke-law-during-presidency/

Infowars as a 'credible' source? :har:

BTW, fixed your post for you...

Are you aware of the fact that the article you linked to states directly that this claim is 100% false? It even says so at the top of the very page.

1. Past experience has proven he is not prone to really reading anything

2. The lack of facts has never stopped him...or Trump...

By all accounts, no, she did not actually state that. You're 0 for 2 today. Anything else?

Gotta give it to Yubba: he's nothing if not consistent...

<O>

yubba

02-04-17, 10:40 PM

Infowars as a 'credible' source? :har:

BTW, fixed your post for you...

1. Past experience has proven he is not prone to really reading anything

2. The lack of facts has never stopped him...or Trump...

Gotta give it to Yubba: he's nothing if not consistent...

<O>

Then explain why Trump won..If Info wars and Drudge wasn't creditable,, why are they a threat to the liberal left ???. It is sad that I have to go to Info Wars to get the news,, since the national mainstream media is the propaganda lap dog of the liberal left,, I make mistakes to give you Hope and make you feel elite since that's all you got.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=200&pictureid=9312

vienna

02-05-17, 12:41 AM

..., I make mistakes to give you Hope and make you feel elite since that's all you got.If your mistakes are to give me hope, then, by God, you are the greatest hope-giver in the history of mankind...

As far as being elite, I'm just a guy with a general high school education, no college at all, got my first job when I was 12 years old, started working full-time straight out of high school, and aside from a few side adventures, have nothing to really distinguish me as no more than just another working Joe; so, no I am not elite and do not consider myself so; I have, however, kept my mind open, sought to learn as much as possible, from both sides, about topics of interest and try, as much as possible, to know the facts before I cite them, and if I am wrong and stand corrected, I admit to such and will apologize as needed and to whom needed. I am always willing to be persuaded to new ideas when they are presented logically and with supportive verifiable facts. In my life, I have admitted I'm wrong, more times than I'd care to admit; I have been wrong in the past and, most likely will be wrong on more things in the future; I just hope I can continue to be, at least, a person who has the guts to be admittedly wrong and own up to it...

I put on my pants just like any other person, both legs at once, and, if I wasn't so humble, I'd boast about my modesty... :D

No, that is false. That journalist either does not know how the Constitution works and/or is making a political statement.

The President derives his power from the Constitution. A EO is just an expression of the President's power so one President cannot bind his successor with an EO. Trump is free to rescind and replace every EO ever put out by his predecessor and there is no formality involved.

Actually, an EO has no expiration date, unless an expiration date is explicitly given in an original or amended EO, and remains in force until it is revoked or superseded by either a subsequent EO explicitly revoking or superseding the order as a whole, an Act Of Congress voiding the EO, or a finding by the SCOTUS of either unconstitutionality or illegality of the EO in question. EOs may be amended by a POTUS subsequent to the original EO. The EO of the process for EOs, promulgated by JFK in Executive Order 11030 on 19 June 1962 was the latest in a lengthy series of EOs on process over many years and, aside from minor amendments to make the language regarding changing department titles, resetting of document margins, etc., has not been substantially changed or amended as to the process of EOs. Given that the EO has, in fact, been amended since the JFK promulgation by subsequent POTUSes, it would be reasonable to deduce those Presidents were knowledgeable of the EO process and did conform to the established process. So, there is a formality and legally binding process in place and, until Trump and his associates decide process "not good, bad" and issue an EO to revoke, he is legally bound to follow the set process and, in the case of the travel ban, and, more likely than not, most, if not all of his EOs, he is is violation of laws and regulations...

Executive Order 11030 and codification in the National Archives:

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11030.html

Wikisource article on Executive Order 11030 with annotations on subsequent amendments:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11030

Now on the Legality of Trump's EO, it is true that the Courts are the ultimate arbitrer, but the Constitution has been around long enough and there have been enough judicial decisions to have a pretty good idea of what POTUS can and cannot do.

The Constitution grants to POTUS the executive power, he is commander of the armed forces, he has the duty to protect the USA. The Courts have determined that POTUS has nearly absolute jurisdiction on all matters outside of the USA and dealing with foreign govts, unless the Constitution specifically carves out that power to Congress, i.e. ratifying Treaties.

Under Obama, we saw an expansion of that power. Obama greatly expanded the Drone program which lead to the targeted killing of around 8,000 foreign nationals deemed by POTUS to be a threat to national security. Now, we know there were also many innocent civilians killed, men, women and children, from several hundreds or several thousands, depending on the source.

Obama also determined he had the power to kill U.S. citizens abroad which were deemed to be a security risk and he exercised that power a few time.

There was some grumbling in the Press over those actions, but no one seriously questioned that POTUS has very broad powers to act against what he perceives to be a security threat.

Obviously, if POTUS has the power to kill foreign nationals, he also has the power to stop them from entering U.S. territory as Courts have consistently ruled.

Now on the recent challenges, there are many grounds, but the only one that has a real shot is that it is a disguised "Muslim Ban" and therefore discrimination on religious grounds. Personally, I think it has very little chance of success, but let's game it out. Let's assume courts ultimately assume that the order is unconstitutional because it discriminates on religious grounds, what would that mean?

Basically, the Courts for the first time ever would be recognizing that foreign nationals have an inherent right to demand entry to the USA. There are an estimated 5 million Syrian refugees, let's assume all apply to enter the USA and all are refused. In theory, they could then apply to U.S. courts on the grounds that they are being refused entry on religious grounds, the onus would then be on the U.S. govt to show bona fide reasons why they are not being let in.

In effect, instead of the onus being on refugees/immigrants to show why they should be let in, the onus would shift to the U.S. government to show why they should be kept out. So the long term effect would be that the U.S. governement would lose control over the border.

Anti-Trumpers are so determined to stop whatever Trump is doing now, that they don't stop to think what the long term effect will be.

Actually, the arguments against the ban have been not only based on Constitutional, e.g., 5th and 14th Amendment concerns, but, also, an adjudicated Federal law from 1965 explicitly banning discrimination based on nationality:

http://www.newsweek.com/opponents-best-legal-arguments-against-trump-immigration-ban-551934

The above article has cite-links for the arguments they present...

As reasonable as it may have seemed to you that Yates lack of action and defience should have just been ignored. Her job was in the executive branch of government her boss is the president. Her purpose was to serve the executive branch, to give advice and enforce the policy of the federal government. Sessions appointment, mid-terms, or what political rags and hacks might say down the road doesn't have jack squat do with what happens to her. Yates's defience, taking matters into her own hands and not doing her job should be much more concerning to everyone than anything else at hand. The checks and balances in place to prevent her from doing what she did again was to fire her on the spot, and rightfully so.

Now if she would have done her job she could have watched the process unfold as it should. Federal judges in the lower courts giving their opinion on the matter. That is how the ball gets rolling for this issue to go to before the SCOTUS to look at the legalities of the immigrtion ban.

When I said Yates was doing her job, it was not an implicit negation of the ban; it was intended to express the belief the duty of any Cabinet member is not just to be a "rubber stamp" or a "Yes man". Cabinet members are there to advise the POTUS on their views as to the legality, practicality, or impact of a Presidential decision. There is nothing in the law commanding/demanding a Cabinet member to blindly and without objection obey or carry out what they deem to be an unlawful order. Even the UCMJ makes obedience mandatory only, and explicitly, when an order is lawful. Barring any legal compulsion, any Cabinet member is free to express their views and opinions; and they're duty is not to defend the decisions of any President; their duty is solely to do what they swore to in their oath: support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The President of the United States is not the Constitution; the Constitution is the Constitution and it is far greater and more important than any President...

On the subject of Cabinet members dissenting from the views of the President, I would point to the recent confirmation hearings where not a few of the Cabinet nominees have expressed views and opinions contradicting Trump's own utterances and beliefs; are they to be denied their seat at the table?; or are they just lying just to get the job, because, if so, committing perjury under oath before Congress is very worrisome indeed...

Should Yates have resigned? Maybe yes, maybe no. She was on her way out the next day, anyway, and resigning would have been an empty act; if her desire was to underscore the perceived illegality of the Trump order, than she did what she thought best, and she was fired for it. What Trump did, on the other hand, was strategically and politically idiotic and symptomatic of the ails of the Trump administration: ill-thought-out actions followed by very poor execution. Those guys need to really do their homework and really need to know how to properly and successfully carry out a process. Right now it looks like a middle school team trying to play an NFL team...

Where? I don't do Twitter, I only learn about that on news sites. :oops:

Join the party; I have refused to join Twitter, Facebook, or any of the other social networks du jour that keep popping up. When people ask me for my Facebook or other account name and I say I don't have any, they look at me like I'm some sort of cave dweller; the downside is, if you are looking for work, the HR systems are now set up so the lack of social media connections is viewed as a liability and some places won't even consider you if you don't have some type social net presence such as LinkedIn; I don't mind being turned down because I don't have the necessary work experience or education, but it sure is galling to lose out on a job because I don't post selfies or pictures of what I'm having for dinner...

Well it can't be worse than the plane it was on previously.

The next few years will most likely prove that statement wrong (if Trump actually lasts a few more years...)...

<O>

yubba

02-05-17, 07:43 AM

If your mistakes are to give me hope, then, by God, you are the greatest hope-giver in the history of mankind...

As far as being elite, I'm just a guy with a general high school education, no college at all, got my first job when I was 12 years old, started working full-time straight out of high school, and aside from a few side adventures, have nothing to really distinguish me as no more than just another working Joe; so, no I am not elite and do not consider myself so; I have, however, kept my mind open, sought to learn as much as possible, from both sides, about topics of interest and try, as much as possible, to know the facts before I cite them, and if I am wrong and stand corrected, I admit to such and will apologize as needed and to whom needed. I am always willing to be persuaded to new ideas when they are presented logically and with supportive verifiable facts. In my life, I have admitted I'm wrong, more times than I'd care to admit;[QOUTE] <O>

Ha,, you don't have a problem ridiculing anyone that doesn't see your point of view especially me

Actually, an EO has no expiration date, unless an expiration date is explicitly given in an original or amended EO, and remains in force until it is revoked or superseded by either a subsequent EO explicitly revoking or superseding the order as a whole, an Act Of Congress voiding the EO, or a finding by the SCOTUS of either unconstitutionality or illegality of the EO in question. EOs may be amended by a POTUS subsequent to the original EO. The EO of the process for EOs, promulgated by JFK in Executive Order 11030 on 19 June 1962 was the latest in a lengthy series of EOs on process over many years and, aside from minor amendments to make the language regarding changing department titles, resetting of document margins, etc., has not been substantially changed or amended as to the process of EOs. Given that the EO has, in fact, been amended since the JFK promulgation by subsequent POTUSes, it would be reasonable to deduce those Presidents were knowledgeable of the EO process and did conform to the established process. So, there is a formality and legally binding process in place and, until Trump and his associates decide process "not good, bad" and issue an EO to revoke, he is legally bound to follow the set process and, in the case of the travel ban, and, more likely than not, most, if not all of his EOs, he is is violation of laws and regulations.. <O> [QOUTE]

EOs cannot be consrewed as law,, only congress can make laws,, the president cannot pick and chose what laws he is or is not going to enforce or pick and chose who he is going to or not enforce them on ,, that's why the left lost..

https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2016/05/11/the-legality-of-obamas-executive-orders-and-why-you-should-care/

Actually, the arguments against the ban have been not only based on Constitutional, e.g., 5th and 14th Amendment concerns, but, also, an adjudicated Federal law from 1965 explicitly banning discrimination based on nationality:[QOUTE]

you sure don't want to acknowledge this,, the 1952 law banning Islam in America.

https://stumpknocker77.wordpress.com/2015/12/09/4198/

The next few years will most likely prove that statement wrong (if Trump actually lasts a few more years...)...

<O>

Well it took 8 long years to prove that progressive liberal communism/socialism/marxism/fascism/ anti capitalism,,, doesn't work in America,, just because I missed the classes on how unicorns crap free stuff doesn't make me less informed than you..

and by the you didn't answer the question ,, explaining why Trump won,, with you sighting that Info Wars was not a creditable news source,, instead you rambled on ,, I guess you like to hear yourself speak.

Oberon

02-05-17, 08:32 AM

vienna

02-05-17, 10:58 AM

Well it took 8 long years to prove that progressive liberal communism/socialism/marxism/fascism/ anti capitalism,,, doesn't work in America,, just because I missed the classes on how unicorns crap free stuff doesn't make me less informed than you..

and by the you didn't answer the question ,, explaining why Trump won,, with you sighting that Info Wars was not a creditable news source,, instead you rambled on ,, I guess you like to hear yourself speak.

As for rambling, well, I would have thought you enjoyed rambling since your guy Trump is the undisputed King of Stream of Unconsciousness; the disarray of his speeches and addresses thus far have been a mess of starts and fits, unfinished sentences (much less thoughts) and irrelevant verbiage that seems to mirror his own mental disarray. Compared to Trump, even GW Bush is a Lincolnesque orator...

Trump won the Presidency because he and his cronies did what all the other candidates do: they game the Electoral College vote. It is just simple manipulation and has been going on for a long time. Sometimes the manipulations work and sometimes not: in 2012, Obama won 61.7% of the electoral vote in spite of the machinations of Cheney, Rove and other GOP operatives; I remember well the furious faces and words of Cheney and Rove in Election Night interviews when they realized their efforts had failed and failed badly. If you want to use the Electoral College vote as a measure of the strength of the winning candidate, in 2008, Obama had 67.8% of the Electoral votes, in 2012, Obama had 61.7% of the Electoral vote; in 2016, Trump had 56.5% of the Electoral vote; using Electoral college votes as the yardstick, Obama was a more successful candidate in both his runs for office than Trump; in addition Obama got over 50% of the popular vote in both his runs while Trump could only muster 46.0% of the popular vote, behind Clinton's 48.1% total. If you really want to use the Electoral College as being definitive, then Nixon in 1972, must have been areal popular candidate, loved by all, because he got a whopping 97.7% of the Electoral vote; his popular vote, running against a very weak DEM candidate (McGovern), got him 60.7% of the popular vote...

The fact does remain, however, that the majority of the actual votes cast by actual individual voters expressing their actual preference were cast against Trump; he couldn't even beat Clinton in the popular vote; the actual majority of the voting people have spoken: anyone but Trump. This explains why the Inauguration was so sparsely attended, even with free tickets. I know Little Donnie was really hurt that most of the people just didn't give a monkey's about his little soiree, but, hey, he should have expected it; he's just not popular and it is his fault alone...

About answering questions, I know I've been waiting a long time for you to actually give specific answers to specific questions posited by myself and any number of other participants on this forum, you know, answers with actual, specific, provable facts. Instead what you provide is poorly executed deflection and sputtering gibberish that you try to pass off as fact. If there really was any credible substance to your arguments, you would be able to better defend them than by running away and hiding behind trite regurgitations of the whacked theory of the week. Do some research, read some material from a viewpoint other than Hannity, Jones, Bannon, et al. At least the others who post here do try to support their arguments with substance rather than slime.For them, even if I might agree with some of their views, I have solid respect; for you, not so much...

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government? I have more than answered your past questions and comments and with good solid data; it would be only fair for you to answer just one of mine, if you actually can manage even that simple a task...

<O>

MaDef

02-05-17, 11:18 AM

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government? I have more than answered your past questions and comments and with good solid data; it would be only fair for you to answer just one of mine, if you actually can manage even that simple a task...

because it discombobulates at least 50% of of the U.S. population and 80% of Europe (who's opinions are really not as important as they wish they were.)

Oberon

02-05-17, 11:24 AM

Hey, we're within range of your nukes and if your economy falls over it'll screw us over, our opinion is valid too.

Jimbuna

02-05-17, 11:41 AM

The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.
The late night ruling means the travel ban will remain suspended until the full case has been heard.
The court gave the White House and the states challenging it a deadline of Monday to present more arguments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38872680

Oberon

02-05-17, 01:05 PM

This would be a lot less damaging for Trump if he'd just stay off twitter rather than throwing a tantrum every time something goes wrong for him.

u crank

02-05-17, 01:37 PM

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government?

That's a good question. Another would be how did this happen? Gaming the Electoral College vote is not the whole story. Some blame must be placed on the previous administration. "My name may not be on the ballot, but our progress is on the ballot,". When I was young and my brothers and I would get into trouble and blame each other my Mom would say "there's plenty of blame to go around".

An even better question is how can this be prevented in the future cause the case can be made that anybody can be President.

Rockstar

02-05-17, 02:37 PM

When I said Yates was doing her job, it was not an implicit negation of the ban; it was intended to express the belief the duty of any Cabinet member is not just to be a "rubber stamp" or a "Yes man". Cabinet members are there to advise the POTUS on their views as to the legality, practicality, or impact of a Presidential decision. There is nothing in the law commanding/demanding a Cabinet member to blindly and without objection obey or carry out what they deem to be an unlawful order.

Even the UCMJ makes obedience mandatory only, and explicitly, when an order is lawful. Barring any legal compulsion, any Cabinet member is free to express their views and opinions; and they're duty is not to defend the decisions of any President; their duty is solely to do what they swore to in their oath: support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The President of the United States is not the Constitution; the Constitution is the Constitution and it is far greater and more important than any President...

I know the UCMJ having had on occasion to stand tall before the man hat in hand to recieve punishment. I'll say this if I were to say "gee captain 'I think' thats an unlawful order" and then tell everyone under me not to follow it. I have a hard time believing any reasonable person would be surprised if I wasnt fired on the spot and thrown in the brig. Its one thing to have a differing opinion and suffer the consequences because of it. Its another to tell the captain no and on top of that send a memo to the rest of the crew expecting everyone else to follow me. Can you guess what that falls under in the UCMJ? In her case I think she screwed up by looking through the glasses of party politics rather than those of the Office she held. Instead of stepping down because of her firm belief that what she was expected to do was wrong. She just decided to not do it and sent out a memo expecting everyone else to follow her in defience. Bad move, real bad move and instead of retiring or stepping down with honor she got fired! She gets not one ounce of sympathy from me.

As far as the oath dont forget the second part of it. The part she refused to do that got her fired.

On the subject of Cabinet members dissenting from the views of the President, I would point to the recent confirmation hearings where not a few of the Cabinet nominees have expressed views and opinions contradicting Trump's own utterances and beliefs; are they to be denied their seat at the table?; or are they just lying just to get the job, because, if so, committing perjury under oath before Congress is very worrisome indeed...

Should Yates have resigned? Maybe yes, maybe no. She was on her way out the next day, anyway, and resigning would have been an empty act; if her desire was to underscore the perceived illegality of the Trump order, than she did what she thought best, and she was fired for it. What Trump did, on the other hand, was strategically and politically idiotic and symptomatic of the ails of the Trump administration: ill-thought-out actions followed by very poor execution. Those guys need to really do their homework and really need to know how to properly and successfully carry out a process. Right now it looks like a middle school team trying to play an NFL team...

It may have been idiotic, but it was not explicitly against the law. Had it been I confident both parties would have gotten out their torches and pitchforks and all hell would have by now broke loose. But as we see our system of government appears to be working. As lower court judges are begining to offer differing views shutting down the executive order. Eventually it may go to the final arbiter SCOTUS.

Takeda Shingen

02-05-17, 02:45 PM

We interrupt the mundane to bring you a few moments of brilliance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI

We now return you to internet punditry, already in progress.

Aktungbby

02-05-17, 03:22 PM

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12520537.1477674037!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.jpg

yubba

02-05-17, 03:48 PM

As for rambling, well, I would have thought you enjoyed rambling since your guy Trump is the undisputed King of Stream of Unconsciousness; the disarray of his speeches and addresses thus far have been a mess of starts and fits, unfinished sentences (much less thoughts) and irrelevant verbiage that seems to mirror his own mental disarray. Compared to Trump, even GW Bush is a Lincolnesque orator...

Trump won the Presidency because he and his cronies did what all the other candidates do: they game the Electoral College vote. It is just simple manipulation and has been going on for a long time. Sometimes the manipulations work and sometimes not: in 2012, Obama won 61.7% of the electoral vote in spite of the machinations of Cheney, Rove and other GOP operatives; I remember well the furious faces and words of Cheney and Rove in Election Night interviews when they realized their efforts had failed and failed badly. If you want to use the Electoral College vote as a measure of the strength of the winning candidate, in 2008, Obama had 67.8% of the Electoral votes, in 2012, Obama had 61.7% of the Electoral vote; in 2016, Trump had 56.5% of the Electoral vote; using Electoral college votes as the yardstick, Obama was a more successful candidate in both his runs for office than Trump; in addition Obama got over 50% of the popular vote in both his runs while Trump could only muster 46.0% of the popular vote, behind Clinton's 48.1% total. If you really want to use the Electoral College as being definitive, then Nixon in 1972, must have been areal popular candidate, loved by all, because he got a whopping 97.7% of the Electoral vote; his popular vote, running against a very weak DEM candidate (McGovern), got him 60.7% of the popular vote...

The fact does remain, however, that the majority of the actual votes cast by actual individual voters expressing their actual preference were cast against Trump; he couldn't even beat Clinton in the popular vote; the actual majority of the voting people have spoken: anyone but Trump. This explains why the Inauguration was so sparsely attended, even with free tickets. I know Little Donnie was really hurt that most of the people just didn't give a monkey's about his little soiree, but, hey, he should have expected it; he's just not popular and it is his fault alone...

About answering questions, I know I've been waiting a long time for you to actually give specific answers to specific questions posited by myself and any number of other participants on this forum, you know, answers with actual, specific, provable facts. Instead what you provide is poorly executed deflection and sputtering gibberish that you try to pass off as fact. If there really was any credible substance to your arguments, you would be able to better defend them than by running away and hiding behind trite regurgitations of the whacked theory of the week. Do some research, read some material from a viewpoint other than Hannity, Jones, Bannon, et al. At least the others who post here do try to support their arguments with substance rather than slime.For them, even if I might agree with some of their views, I have solid respect; for you, not so much...

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government? I have more than answered your past questions and comments and with good solid data; it would be only fair for you to answer just one of mine, if you actually can manage even that simple a task...

<O>

Really,,, look at all that jibberish, I did answer your well craft questions,, you couldn't accept the answers,,the woman was white because she was,, you wanted to race bait me,, funny thing Obama's TSA spent more time searching white people because they didn't want to look racist how about that for an answer. . and if Hillary wasn't a lying murderous,, bribe taken snake in the grass that sold us out to the highest bidder while she was in office,, and had the balls to lie over flag draped coffins of the Americans she let die,she might have done better,, again I ask what lies of Trump,, he seems to be doing all the things he said he would and more.. If I were you I wouldn't cry about the popular vote because that is going to come back and bite you in the torpedo tube with all the voter fraud and trust me they'll find it.The Associated Press finds that Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump,” the article says.that my friend is a land slide or is the AP not creditable to your standards. The Russians hacked the election now that's rich,, if they did anything they exposed who the democrats truely are,, Commie comes to mind.. I am truely touched that you are willing to defend the constitution when in your heart you don't believe in it..

Aktungbby

02-05-17, 03:55 PM

because it discombobulates at least 50% of of the U.S. population and 80% of Europe (who's opinions are really not as important as they wish they were.)

Hey, we're within range of your nukes and if your economy falls over it'll screw us over, our opinion is valid too.

An even better question is how can this be prevented in the future cause the case can be made that anybody can be President.

We interrupt the mundane to bring you a few moments of brilliance. We now return you to internet punditry, already in progress.

Really,,, look at all that jibberish,, I did answer your well craft questions....
:har:
http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12469057.1476804045!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.jpg

Oberon

02-05-17, 04:36 PM

Really,,, look at all that jibberish

Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,look ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,

Dowly

02-05-17, 04:38 PM

The Associated Press finds that Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump,” the article says.that my friend is a land slide or is the AP not creditable to your standards.Look up "population density", you might learn something new.

Rockstar

02-05-17, 04:40 PM

What the Donald needs to learn is he is nolonger running his own company he just cant command others to do his bidding. As president he needs to learn how to persuade.

Also too, all things considered I think our court system is working just fine. What I find astonishing is the tantrums a sitting president is going on about on twitter because he didnt get his way. “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril,” Trump wrote. “If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!”

disagrees...
http://www.bizpacreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/buck_stops_here.jpeg
Somebody should find that sign and put it back on the presidents desk.

STEED

02-05-17, 04:46 PM

What the Donald needs to learn is he is nolonger running his own company he just cant command others to do his bidding. As president he needs to learn how to persuade others.

He has a long road to walk before he wakes up to that fact. Question is will he wake up and learn this or continual to choose to think he is still running a company.

Rockstar

02-05-17, 04:56 PM

Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,look ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,

:up:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw

Rockstar

02-05-17, 05:04 PM

He has a long road to walk before he wakes up to that fact. Question is will he wake up and learn this or continual to choose to think he is still running a company.

I think back to the movie 'Patton' after the General defeated Rommel's attack plans exclaimed "I read your book!".

I suppose if anyone wants to know who our president is and how he thinks. They could read his books. 'Think Like a billionaire', 'Think Big and Kickass', The Art of The Deal'. Unfortunetly they may reveal more than we really want to know. :D

em2nought

02-05-17, 05:21 PM

I think back to the movie 'Patton' after the General defeated Rommel's attack plans exclaimed "I read your book!".

I suppose if anyone wants to know who our president is and how he thinks. They could read his books. 'Think Like a billionaire', 'Think Big and Kickass', The Art of The Deal'. Unfortunetly they may reveal more than we really want to know. :D

I'm still waiting for my copy of "Art of the Deal", I think my mailman might have stolen it. :hmmm:

Rockstar

02-05-17, 05:42 PM

Reads some of the reviews on Amazon and to be fair only those prior to his run for president. Quite a variety of opinions there.

mapuc

02-05-17, 05:58 PM

You are not the only one who's discussing Trump and the future of USA.

A friends friend wrote this on another friends wall

(I have used google translate)

"Being right in its utterances are not always adequate - adequate is to have the right to speak out"

And ain't that the true-I or some other may not have or know the exact truth, but we have the right to speak.

However one should be careful not to spread lies or fake news.

Markus

Takeda Shingen

02-05-17, 06:13 PM

It is not particularly surprising to me that so few of Trump's most ardent admirers know so very little about him. Since The Art of the Deal is starting to make rounds among the faithful, here are some remarks from the ghostwriter, one Tony Schwartz. A decent glimpse into The Donald that so many of us in the Mid-Atlantic are familiar with.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

razark

02-05-17, 06:56 PM

The Associated Press finds that Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump
Popular vote winners:
1992- Clinton (D)
1996- Clinton (D)
2000- Gore (D)
2004- Bush (R)
2008- Obama (D)
2012- Obama (D)
2016- Clinton (D)

In six of the last seven presidential elections, the Democrat has won the popular vote over the Republican. That's either a hell of a lot of voter fraud, or the Republicans don't have quite the lock on the population that you imply.

(But, of course, as you point out, counties matter more than people, don't they?)

Edit:
In Senate races over the same time, Democratic senators received more total votes than Republicans in eight of thirteen cases. In 2016, there were 51.5 million votes for Democratic candidates, versus 40.4 million for Republicans.

Nippelspanner

02-05-17, 10:03 PM

Rockstar

02-05-17, 10:28 PM

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dude_opinion.jpeg

Nippelspanner

02-05-17, 10:42 PM

Ah yes, very original. But what did I expect? ;)

August

02-05-17, 11:08 PM

(But, of course, as you point out, counties matter more than people, don't they?)

As long as it's going to be a union of 50 states they do. That's what makes it a United States. Otherwise the country is dominated by just two states and it wouldn't be a united country for very long.

Aktungbby

02-05-17, 11:23 PM

Nippelspanner

02-05-17, 11:27 PM

C'mon he's good to have around! One cannot properly determine an azimuth of morality until one fixes the nadir of depravity!:know: :damn: :/\\!! :shifty: Your 'entertainment' pain threshold is just sub-par to what Onkel Neal refers to as "insane political threads where your IQ will be sucked dry," U won the humor award: just keep it up Buddy!Ol yubba's just on the 'peppery Semper Fi' side!:har:
While I appreciate your ever lasting "easy going" attitude - you do see my point though. don't you?

Sailor Steve

02-05-17, 11:40 PM

On a side note. How come some get warnings and infractions for the first sign of a personal attack...... And then there's yubba, going to town in every single post, never having anything like an argument or something to back it up (please don't tell me anyone here takes his "sources" serious?), never (this has been proven by now) even reading(!) posts of others and again, instead of an argument that A DEBATE NEEDS he simply swipes everything away with an insult.

But he is not warned, got no infraction and wasn't brigged. By now I wonder if he's secretly funding this place because it makes no sense to me at all to have a yubba around. And no, at some point "entertainment" doesn't cut it anymore.

I can't be the only one who noticed the above.
Please show me what Yubba has said that constitutes a personal attack. Yes, he has used general insults, consistently applied to everyone who believes differently from him, but none of it has been a direct attack on another member. If you see something like that, please feel free to file a Bad Post Report. I haven't seen any of those where he is concerned.

As to not having a real argument, no real sources and no hint of how debate works, none of those things are against the rules. This thread has had more than its fair share of sniping if not quite outright flaming. The thread has had the same points hashed and rehashed more than once. There has been serious debate and some not quite so serious "debate", but so far it hasn't been too seriously derailed and when it has come close to the line it has been straightened out with a gentle reminder, usually behind the scenes.

If you have a complaint to make against another member in the future it would be appreciated if you would make it privately with a Post Report. You see, this post could be considered a derailment and an attack, not to mention publically questioning the Moderation and hinting that the site is not above taking bribes. Not the best way to go about it.

Aktungbby

02-05-17, 11:46 PM

While I appreciate your ever lasting "easy going" attitude - you do see my point though. don't you?
I always get yer point; and I'm not always 'so easy going'...just insidious as needed:arrgh!:: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2375662&postcount=592 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2375662&postcount=592) :Kaleun_Salute: earning a well-deserved red tag in the process! :hmph: Yet persisting: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2375887&postcount=594 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2375887&postcount=594) ... the subject of which is no longer with us http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/keelhauled.jpg Ie: 'Denial of the holocaust' on which I had twice also filed bad-post reports is the clear nadir of stated FAQ's policy; however adorned with bogus documentation the argument attempted to be. More a matter of picking a worthwhile conflict and enforcing it. Yubba and any others in this thread do not rate that much attention.

Nippelspanner

02-05-17, 11:55 PM

Yes, he has used general insults, consistently applied to everyone who believes differently from him, but none of it has been a direct attack on another member.
Mind. Blown.

Anyways, true, that post of mine sure was ot and thereby is derailing. However, the same can be said about posters that waste everyone's time by
a) not even reading what the opponent puts down yet
b) wipes it away as nonsense or evil liberal propaganda while
c) linking to a 'source' that clearly is propaganda (for his side, of course, so it's cool)

That won't move any topic forward either and I feel when someone continuously uses this tactic - with the sole purpose of FIGHTING instead of discussing - then sorry, it should be considered inflammatory, derailing and since it's loaded with attacks on everyone else, insulting, and that the mod tram should act.

But you're right - not the right place as long as I don't name Alex Jones ad a source I guess. Ridiculous.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 06:42 AM

That won't move any topic forward either and I feel when someone continuously uses this tactic - with the sole purpose of FIGHTING instead of discussing - then sorry, it should be considered inflammatory, derailing and since it's loaded with attacks on everyone else, insulting, and that the mod tram should act.

that is really, as they say, the pot calling the kettle black.You want to have an honest debate? Why don't you start. I still have not seen one factual argument, all I see are posts of vague fears based on what you are convinced Trump will do.

...and what exactly is being served by posters from the other side continuously hurling personal insults at POTUS other than trying to provoke Trump supporters? That is borderline trolling IMHO.

If Yubba is banned, there are many other members who are borderline skating on the rules who should be banned as well.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 06:51 AM

interesting analysis, in the NY Times no less, of the legality of Trump's travel ban.

Bottom line: the chances it will be ruled unconstitutional/illegal are slim.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/us/politics/trump-immigration-law.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-columan-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Nippelspanner

02-06-17, 07:05 AM

that is really, as they say, the pot calling the kettle black.You want to have an honest debate? Why don't you start. I still have not seen one factual argument, all I see are posts of vague fears based on what you are convinced Trump will do.

Wow, what a blatant lie.
Ok, quote me. Quote me where I made claims what trump WILL do. I never did any such thing. I said I hate him for who he is and what he DID yes, but that's something completely different - and justified/based on facts.

Again, quote me.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 07:12 AM

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 07:16 AM

Yes you observed that right.
I don't even care about trump, he is but a worthless oxygen thief to me and I am convinced this planet would be a better one without him, or his kind.

I care more about those who indeed not only accept this behavior, but even support it, acknowledge it by even raising him to power, instead of remembering why integrity, dignity and respect is of utmost value and importance for the office of the POTUS. No, they rather listened to right wing propaganda, luring them the easy way creating an enemy that shouldn't be one ("the Democrats "). I find it appalling and spineless. If I would vote a person like trump to power, I would feel ashamed for the rest if my life, because while I carefully mind not dropping an f bomb or be a "good Christian", I still betrayed all these values I claimed to hold dear and voted a scumbag into this office that once was so... Kinda holy.

/Rant

And yes, the Democrats completely defeated themselves, no doubt here. Hillary was the worst choice they could have made...

here you go redux, insults not only against Trump, again not stating why, but also insulting anyone who voted for him.

Again, you want an honest debate? why don't you take the first step instead of asking that members you do not agree with be banned.

Onkel Neal

02-06-17, 07:17 AM

Thank you. I was going to shape a reply but you did it better.

Catfish

02-06-17, 08:08 AM

Immigration ban on countries where no terrorist came from, but keeping those who have sent lots, and finance and plan further attacks? Makes not much sense to me.
Ah money you say, this is of course a reason, and probably the real one. Economical ties alright, but please do not try to sell this to us as protecting US citizens.

B.t.w. does banning countries make sense? Every terrorist can get a passport from Sweden or Australia, and immigrate everywhere.

August

02-06-17, 08:20 AM

B.t.w. does banning countries make sense? Every terrorist can get a passport from Sweden or Australia, and immigrate everywhere.

I find it difficult to believe that "every terrorist can get a passport from countries like Sweden or Australia". Has this ever happened? If so is it (still) particularly difficult to properly vet people coming from those countries like it is the ones on the temporary ban list?

Skybird

02-06-17, 08:52 AM

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2017-01-27/does-donald-trumps-personality-make-him-dangerous?src=usn_tw

I get some prominent support for my earlier claim that Trump is suffering from a narcissistic psychopathological symptomatology. My famous colleague :D calls it malignant narcissism instead.

What is malignant narcisiism, in differentiation to the DSM-IV.known diagnostical category of a narcissistic personality disorder? - HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism).

Gartner obviously has perceived the same symptoms and puts the same diagnosis like I did. which in Trump's case is not difficult, since narcissists do not wish to hide themselves and their manipulation of others, which can be quite different to an old-schooled classical psychopath, who prefers to manipulate people ice-cold in any manner he sees suitiable for his desires and drives - on display if that is benefittable for his cause, in the hiding if that serves his intentions better. Narcissists however do want to shine, and want to let everybody know, and want to actively make others beleive what fantastic god-like creatures they are.

What this means? Trump is ill-natured, and there is no cure. He will not grow with the office, because he cannot. He is ill.

Ill - but dangerous. Never think an ill patient cannot be dangerous, is excused from being labelled as dangerous.

If you think I am only about taking cheap shots at Trump, read some of my earlier postings about him from the past months. This diagnosis is primarily of clinical interest for me. I never hid my antipathy towards Trump, but also said he should be given the benefit of doubt. But the many hollow, mostly pointless decrees he is ripple-firing, are revealing. I do not need the full 100 days to form up my opinion.

Whatever good maybe comes from him, is not intentional, and just a side-effect he doe snto care for. For example that his rudeness gives the Europeans a wake-up call that is much needed.

Trump lives in his own fantasy Trumpoverse, and this I mean not metaphorically, but literally. And that is what makes him immune to input from reality, and very dangerous.

He may be ill, but he is dangerous. And all this I say as a former psychologist and from a clinical perspective.

Politics and certain businesses seem to attract such patients often.

BTW, for narcissism personality disorder as well as "malignant narcissim", there is no cure and no known therapy. Lock the latter away so that the public is safe from them. Thats all you can do.

Nippelspanner

02-06-17, 08:54 AM

Did you follow what he said during the elections, and since he is in office?
If this isn't enough to know he should not be president I don't know what is.
For me, it has been enough long before November.
here you go, you don't like him, but can't state why.
Err, no. I can state reasons, but I didn't want to in that particular post, no.
Can =/= want to - learn the difference.

And since I did state reasons before, I did not see any reason to state them again. Little did I know that Trump critics have to attach a complete and approved list of reasons why they despise trump. Sorry?
Neal, quick, update the rules!

here you go redux, insults not only against Trump, again not stating why, but also insulting anyone who voted for him.

Again, you want an honest debate? why don't you take the first step instead of asking that members you do not agree with be banned.
I did not ask for anyone getting banned.
Stop lying. Please?

I stated why and named plenty examples in the past months(!) as to why I despise trump.
Of course, coincidentally, you picked a post where I did not name any reasons and deliberately skipped a more recent post where I did.

What you're trying here is obvious - and pathetic.

Here's the most recent post where I named just a few reasons out of my head.
Now of course, none of these will be valid in any trump-fans book, but fortunately, I do not need you, or anyone, to approve of my reasons to despise your president. :)

Steve, one last time: He DID do enough already. Saying terrible things, from making false claims purposely, insulting other politicians due to their physical appearance, insulting EVERY SINGLE POW, making the wildest and most absurd racial slurs or talking about his daughter as if he wants to bed her - that is DOING something in my book and I'm sorry you, and others, don't give a damn and give this worthless scum a pass because "muh let's see!".

Catfish

02-06-17, 08:56 AM

I mean of course faked passports, with a bit of money you can get everything i'm sure. In Germany there are new ones with chips for nfc and whatnot in it, but you could also fake that.

There is no guarantee, you can only minimise illegal entries by thoroughly vetting everyone, and that is plain not possible with the numbers. Banning countries.. if you were a terrorist or a secret service member from, say, Turkey. Would you use your real passport, or a turkish, or a syrian one?
You would of course either fake another person from whom this passport happens to be, or use an entirely faked one, from a neutral or befriended country.

But i am still not convinced that banning countries is even legal, apart from them being the wrong ones to ban. Maybe during emergency laws, "condition red" or however the "threat level" was named, or under martial law. Are you at war, officially? What about the Geneva convention? What about all other international treaties the US has signed?
True, they have tried to circumvent ot leave this already in the Bush years, to make sueing of e.g. CIA staff impossible, legalise torture under certain conditions, and evade this time-consuming transport of detainees to countries where torture is "allowed", or at least does not take place on american soil.

Up to a point all this is even understandable, or comprehensible. Whatever, do not insult other countries by glossing over all that stuff. Call a spade a spade and people will not criticise you.

Trump's motto of "America First" indicates "America alone".

August

02-06-17, 09:08 AM

But i am still not convinced that banning countries is even legal

How could it not be? How could a nation not have the right to suspend immigration?

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 09:11 AM

How could it not be? How could a nation not have the right to suspend immigration?

I would think every country can control immigration. There is nothing in writing and agreed upon by the world that states otherwise.

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 09:13 AM

Trump's motto of "America First" indicates "America alone".

And it may just have to be that way for a time. The world police sounds great on the surface and it is until the bill is received.

Catfish

02-06-17, 09:13 AM

So you want to get back to before 1965, and skip the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act?

edit
Like in England, you already have enough means to control immigration, you do not even need new laws or bans. Just use what you have. All this populistic chatter of "sovereignty and being able to close the borders" is just there to create fear and threats, and is absolutely unnecessary. The tools are already there, use them.

Skybird

02-06-17, 09:20 AM

Catfish - "banning countries"?

I know what you mean, however. But, and that is a paramount of a but:

how can people claim the right to move where-ever they want, if the land they walk over, and into, already has seen other people claiming it, settling on it, building communities, civilizations, societies there? How can you demand that any foreigner nevertheless has claim for all this and claim for being let in, even if the members of this all are against it and do not want him?

You declare the residents who themselves and whose forefathers have build the place and seeded the things they now enjoy the fruits of, as slaves and receivers of commands of foreigners. You violate one of the most basic "human rights there that natural law does know and bases on.

If a foreigner from the street knocks on your door and tells you he demands that you let him into your household and into the place you live in, house or appartment, do you think you must comply? If you are of sane mind, of course you would say No. You might even call yourself a leftist - but still most likely woudl also argue with your right to own private property.

There are two forms of ethics and morals. The one is demanding and thinks in absolutes. This is what currently disrupts thinking and arguing and poltics in the Wetsern world. The other form of ethics and morals is basing on realities laid out before your eyes. It leads not to utopistic fantasies that are unable to be fulfilled, but to realism and pragmatism. The first moral is ideology-based. The second moral is reality-based.

And that makes all the difference. Plus it explains why I completeley oppose the current consent on indefinite freedom of unregulated, undiscriminated moevement. Hence, I reject the general asylum laws as they currently stand. They are a crime against human rights of the residential population and the historically grown identity it has build in its living place.

You may acheive the opportnity to ASK whether they let you stay for some time, or forever. And whatever their answer is - you, as the foeeigner coming to their place, have to accept it,NO MATTER WHAT.

Because they do not live for the sake of you, and your interest.

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 09:22 AM

So you want to get back to before 1965, and skip the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act?

Yes. Until a proper vetting system is in place. A window of 90 days was issued.

Further, why is it past history can be pulled up to prove one's point yet other history for the matter is summarily dismissed. Immigration has been stopped for a few months by past Presidents with much issue at all. Some how Trump's is different?

Catfish

02-06-17, 09:28 AM

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 09:36 AM

Thank you. I was going to shape a reply but you did it better.

why thank you Sir!

just doing my small part. :salute:

August

02-06-17, 09:40 AM

Again, why ban those countries? This is absolutely unnecessary. He could as well have banned Finnland.

As I understand it the current security situation in those particular countries makes it impossible to properly vet potential immigrants. They just want a chance to review and improve that before continuing to take people from them.

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 09:43 AM

True, but i just do not think Trump will stop that after 90 days, if he has his say. But i think this will all be dealt with at Scotus.

Again, why ban those countries? This is absolutely unnecessary. He could as well have banned Finnland.

At this juncture we have to take it a 90 days and see what transpires.

Trump banded these particular countries for the reason I have heard...these countries have a very poor vetting system that needs to be address. Last year it was established that there was large gaps in the vetting system. People were gaining access without much proof of anything.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 09:44 AM

now back to the debate, another good article laying out the reasons why the travel ban is legal:

Robart rejected that position outright. Later, in its emergency brief filed Saturday night with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, the government argued that a U.S. District Court judge has no legal right to stop a presidential action in which the president exercised his own constitutional power to conduct foreign policy, as well as power delegated by him to Congress in the area of immigration. The political branches of government have plenary authority over those areas, the government argued, citing cases from 1950, 1952, and 1999:

Judicial second-guessing of the president's determination that a temporary suspension of entry of certain classes of aliens was necessary at this time to protect national security would constitute an impermissible intrusion on the political branches' plenary constitutional authority over foreign affairs, national security, and immigration. See, e.g., Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, 342 U.S. 580, 588-89 (1952) ("[A]ny policy toward aliens is vitally and intricately interwoven with contemporaneous policies in regard to the conduct of foreign relations, the war power, and the maintenance of a republican form of government."). "it is not within the province of any court, unless expressly authorized by law, to review the determination of the political branch of the Government to exclude a given alien." Knauff, 338 U.S. at 543; see also INS v. Aguirre-Aguirre, 526 U.S. 415, 425 (1999).

The government brief supported the president's decision on both legal and constitutional grounds, starting with the law. And that starts with the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which states:

Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

Quoting cases from 2016 and 1977, the Justice Department argued that, specifically in the context of immigration, "the Supreme Court has 'long recognized the power to expel or exclude aliens as a fundamental sovereign attribute exercised by the government's political departments largely immune from judicial control.'" "When Congress delegates this plenary power to the executive, the executive's decisions are likewise generally shielded from administrative or judicial review."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2613988

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 09:45 AM

As I understand it the current security situation in those particular countries makes it impossible to properly vet potential immigrants. They just want a chance to review and improve that before continuing to take people from them.

Bingo!

Congrats to the Pats.

Nippelspanner

02-06-17, 09:51 AM

now back to the debate
Oh NOW you want to get back on topic, after I called you out for your cheap dirt-tactics, lies and after debunking your claims? Isn't THAT convenient!

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 09:53 AM

Oh NOW you want to get back on topic, after I called you out for your cheap dirt-tactics, lies and after debunking your claims? Isn't THAT convenient!

Do you realise how ridiculous you are acting?

How old are you anyway.

Sailor Steve

02-06-17, 09:58 AM

Anyways, true, that post of mine sure was ot and thereby is derailing. However, the same can be said about posters that waste everyone's time by
a) not even reading what the opponent puts down yet
b) wipes it away as nonsense or evil liberal propaganda while
c) linking to a 'source' that clearly is propaganda (for his side, of course, so it's cool)
I agree. Unfortunately the posts in question are indeed talking about the topic, nonsense or not.

That won't move any topic forward either and I feel when someone continuously uses this tactic - with the sole purpose of FIGHTING instead of discussing - then sorry, it should be considered inflammatory, derailing and since it's loaded with attacks on everyone else, insulting, and that the mod tram should act.
Again I agree. The problem is that as long as the person in question is expressing his opinions on the same subject it isn't derailing, and as long as the poster isn't breaking the forum rules as written, any action along those lines must be left to the Admin, who is not me.

Nippelspanner

02-06-17, 10:13 AM

Do you realise how ridiculous you are acting?

How old are you anyway.
The "maturity card" doesn't play well when you are the one who:

A) started this ot debate
B) made multiple false claims about me
C) uses cheap tactics to undermine your opponents credibility and
D) pulls out of the discussion under the pretense of wanting to return to topic just after being called out/debunked.

Therefore, I don't see how I am the one acting immature, I simply defend myself against your baseless accusations.

Again you tried a cheap trick, again I won't fall for it. No worries though, big boss did and that's all that matters. ;)

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 11:09 AM

The "maturity card" doesn't play well when you are the one who:

A) started this ot debate

no, you are the one who started the debate about Yubba. If you are raising the topic of the posting style of another member, then your posting style becomes fair game.

B) made multiple false claims about me

no, I quoted your posts which show to everyone that my claims were accurate.

C) uses cheap tactics to undermine your opponents credibility and

well honestly at this point, you are doing that all by yourself. :ping:

D) pulls out of the discussion under the pretense of wanting to return to topic just after being called out/debunked.

which discussion exactly? You call out Yubba for not debating correctly and when I post threads about U.S. politics, you say I am pulling out of the discussion? The thread title is "U.S. politics", not "Nippelspanner's posting style" :ping:

Nippelspanner

02-06-17, 11:20 AM

no, you are the one who started the debate about Yubba. If you are raising the topic of the posting style of another member, then your posting style becomes fair game.
I was referring to the debate between you and me.

no, I quoted your posts which show to everyone that my claims were accurate.

No. You claimed I can't even state why I despise trump and to "prove" this you quoted one of my posts where I didn't state anything specific, yet you ignored posts where I did and even after I quoted myself, you ignore it. How very convenient to only see what you want, I guess.

well honestly at this point, you are doing that all by yourself. :ping:
Ah yes, sure, another cheap shot.
I debunked your nasty claims, not sure how that undermines my credibility. It only shows how cheap you are, Having to resent to these kind of debate tactics.

which discussion exactly? You call out Yubba for not debating correctly and when I post threads about U.S. politics, you say I am pulling out of the discussion? The thread title is "U.S. politics", not "Nippelspanner's posting style" :ping:
Oh pleeeeaseee this is getting unbearable.

yubba

02-06-17, 11:49 AM

no, you are the one who started the debate about Yubba. If you are raising the topic of the posting style of another member, then your posting style becomes fair game.

which discussion exactly? You call out Yubba for not debating correctly and when I post threads about U.S. politics, you say I am pulling out of the discussion? The thread title is "U.S. politics", not "Nippelspanner's posting style" :ping:

Bilge Rat this is not directed at you keep up the good fight

Argueing over little ole me, you're going to make me blush,, My style of debating is useing Saul Alinky's rule book for radicals,, in reverse, makes the lefts heads spin, if I make a statement I try to put a link up to back what I say,, If any want to throw around wild acquisitions and see if they'll stick,, I'll call you on it and you better be able to back it up. I also like your carefully crafted questions,, crafted to get the answer you desire, since you can't accept the truth, you want to play I'm your huckleberry
and history is mostly against you that's why you want to rewrite it, and have the media in your back pocket to cover for the lefts misdeeds ,, well it ain't conservatives out there rioting or funding it,, clean up your own house before you criticize another,, because I'll use it against you.,, So does any want to show me where in the Constitution where a sitting president can pick and choose what Laws he is going to enforce or not,, and pick and choose who they'll apply to,, also show me who or what people are above the law,,, we wouldn't be in this mess if our would be rulers abided to the oath of office,,, they were sent there to serve us not for We the People to serve them ,,, and that's why Trump won..the Democrat progressive left suffers from DDD syndrome that is,,, Denial,,Deflection and Deception..

Onkel Neal

02-06-17, 11:58 AM

I was referring to the debate between you and me.

No. You claimed I can't even state why I despise trump and to "prove" this you quoted one of my posts where I didn't state anything specific, yet you ignored posts where I did and even after I quoted myself, you ignore it. How very convenient to only see what you want, I guess.

Ah yes, sure, another cheap shot.
I debunked your nasty claims, not sure how that undermines my credibility. It only shows how cheap you are, Having to resent to these kind of debate tactics.

Oh pleeeeaseee this is getting unbearable.

Well, you're right about that. How about letting it go. At least we can say yubba isn't going on and on and on about your posting style.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 12:41 PM

I was referring to the debate between you and me.

debate? there is no debate, I was merely pointing out the errors of your way.

As the old saying goes, posters who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

No. You claimed I can't even state why I despise trump and to "prove" this you quoted one of my posts where I didn't state anything specific, yet you ignored posts where I did and even after I quoted myself, you ignore it. How very convenient to only see what you want, I guess.

well no, now you are trying to change the subject. This "debate" as you say, is about this quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner;
That won't move any topic forward either and I feel when someone continuously uses this tactic - with the sole purpose of FIGHTING instead of discussing - then sorry, it should be considered inflammatory, derailing and since it's loaded with attacks on everyone else, insulting, and that the mod tram should act.

again, you say you want to elevate the debate, but all your posts since then are just more insults.

Oh pleeeeaseee this is getting unbearable.

actually this is sort of fun, just like shooting fish in a barrel. :ping:

but Neal is right, time to move on.

MaDef

02-06-17, 01:45 PM

No. You claimed I can't even state why I despise trump and to "prove" this you quoted one of my posts where I didn't state anything specific, yet you ignored posts where I did and even after I quoted myself, you ignore it. How very convenient to only see what you want, I guess.Not to be nit-picky, but shouldn't the bolded part read "even after I repeated myself, you ignored it."?

Dowly

02-06-17, 02:52 PM

yubba

02-06-17, 03:07 PM

Meanwhile, The United States House Committee on Science, Space and Technology cites an article from non other than Daily Mail to take a jab at climate change.

Exposed: How world leaders were duped into investing billions over manipulated global warming data

https://science.house.gov/news/in-the-news/exposed-how-world-leaders-were-duped-investing-billions-over-manipulated-global

https://twitter.com/HouseScience/status/828342272622223361

http://i.imgur.com/8MDM2CV.gif

I deny global warming just like you deny Fukushima, and you wonder why your skin is fallin off of you, why is it I'm the only Sub Simmer here too mention it,, the problem isn't going away by not talking about it.The resources of the entire planet should have been brought forth to fix this disaster but no people wanted to line their pockets when they could with a carbon tax while a entire ocean dies and what comes with it.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/northern-hemisphere-potentially-in-great-danger-as-fukushima-radiation-spikes-to-unimaginable-levels.html

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486411219538&tpr=sc&searchfor=fukushima&ots=1486411229934

Dowly

02-06-17, 03:17 PM

I deny global warming just like you deny Fukushima, and you wonder why your skin is fallin off of you, why is it I'm the only Sub Simmer here too mention it the problem isn't going away by not talking about it..

http://www.prisonplanet.com/northern-hemisphere-potentially-in-great-danger-as-fukushima-radiation-spikes-to-unimaginable-levels.html

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?n=782b6683&p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&qs=&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&ss=sub&st=tab&trs=wtt&ts=1486411219538&tpr=sc&searchfor=fukushima&ots=1486411229934First of all, I don't think I have ever discussed Fukushima on this site, so I don't know who you mean by 'you'.

Second, what does Fukushima have to do with US politics?

Catfish

02-06-17, 03:44 PM

[...]Second, what does Fukushima have to do with US politics?

Both radiate, one with happiness about Trump, the other .. :O:

Aktungbby

02-06-17, 03:45 PM

Well, you're right about that. How about letting it go. At least we can say yubba isn't going on and on and on about your posting style.

....actually this is sort of fun, just like shooting fish in a barrel. :ping:

but Neal is right, time to move on.

Not to be nit-picky, but shouldn't the bolded part read "even after I repeated myself, you ignored it."? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ce/cd/5d/cecd5d6826290730b664faf18d0dec37.jpg Hey SIR NITPIC...er buddy! let the now-sleeping dragon rest and let's get back to jus' pickin' on "the Donald"! The Administrator, after much forbearance, has spoken: Speaking of which:03:: http://img03.deviantart.net/3d10/i/2016/168/f/3/trump_the_dragon_slayer_by_superguy2036-da6kb57.jpgVS https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/f1/b3/11/f1b311665d27ad56a084927316ffeac0.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C151tSuXEAAi0Oj.jpg

yubba

02-06-17, 04:01 PM

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 04:18 PM

Then what does climate change have to do with US politics besides lining peoples pockets with carbon tax dollars

Oh, nothing much other than....

http://a.scpr.org/i/f3cefc353c84dfd15aff75ed63e2869a/99856-full.jpg

.....and.....

http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/08/02/ce0a3e87-d3be-467b-b5be-7586b187a5bb/thumbnail/620x350/21b451901291162423f0b03d339e58ac/katrina.gif

....and also.....

http://inhabitat.com/nyc/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2013/05/jersey-roller-coaster-e1368545927684.jpg

.....and even this....

https://dsx.weather.com//util/image/v/WORTH_COUNTY_GEORGIA_AERIAL_VIEW_1_1280x720_734317 3613.jpg?v=at&w=485&h=273&api=7db9fe61-7414-47b5-9871-e17d87b8b6a0

See, it's political because its effects cause widespread destruction, and the government gets involved picking up the pieces. Moreover, it is political because it is something that impacts every citizen of this world, including those in the United States. Sorry to tell you that Trump's wall won't be able to keep it out.

Oberon

02-06-17, 04:26 PM

Climate change must be one of those terrorist attacks that the media isn't reporting on. :yep: Like that Bowling Green Massacre. :yep:

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 04:30 PM

Climate change must be one of those terrorist attacks that the media isn't reporting on. :yep: Like that Bowling Green Massacre. :yep:

Confirmed that all of the photos above were the terrorist actions of the Muslim-Mexican alliance, funded by The Jews George Soros.

August

02-06-17, 04:34 PM

Confirmed that all of the photos above were the terrorist actions of the Muslim-Mexican alliance, funded by The Jews George Soros.

Is that some kind of racist remark?

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 04:36 PM

Is that some kind of racist remark?

No, it's mockery.

AVGWarhawk

02-06-17, 04:54 PM

Confirmed that all of the photos above were the terrorist actions of the Muslim-Mexican alliance, funded by The Jews George Soros.

Tak, I handle natural disasters with/for FEMA. I have not worked a major hurricane in over 2 years. The last was a typhoon I worked was in Pago Pago. We have had a few brushes of normal weather activity during the hurricane season. I see you posted what looks to be fire. I'm not sure how that is associated with global warming. I see a picture of the Jersey shore after Sandy. Been sometime since we have seen a storm like Sandy. Another picture of natural occurring flooding. There is no more or less flooding across the US that I'm aware of. These really do not drive the point home of the earth warming. Working with FEMA for 13 years, it has been very quiet in the Atlantic. The predicted numerous storms from years ago never materialized. Melting ice caps do are a good indicator.

eddie

02-06-17, 04:55 PM

Climate change must be one of those terrorist attacks that the media isn't reporting on. :yep: Like that Bowling Green Massacre. :yep:

I just saw that article Oberon, I couldn't believe Trump said that!:haha:

"President Trump on Monday said that news outlets are covering up terrorist attacks without citing any evidence that supports that claim. He made the comment in a speech to U.S. servicemembers at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida after receiving a briefing and eating lunch with troops.

The president began talking about how “radical Islamic terrorists are determined to strike our homeland” as they did on 9/11, in the Boston bombings and in San Bernardino. He said it’s also happening “all over Europe” like in Paris and Nice.

“It’s gotten to a point where it’s not even being reported. In many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn’t want to report it. They have their reasons and you understand that,” Mr. Trump said.

There is no evidence that any media outlet is covering up terrorist attacks".

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-claims-media-is-covering-up-terror-attacks-citing-no-evidence/ar-AAmG36U?li=BBnb7Kz

August

02-06-17, 04:58 PM

No, it's mockery.

Sounds like racism to me.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 05:00 PM

Tak, I handle natural disasters with/for FEMA. I have not worked a major hurricane in over 2 years. The last was a typhoon I worked was in Pago Pago. We have had a few brushes of normal weather activity during the hurricane season. I see you posted what looks to be fire. I'm not sure how that is associated with global warming. I see a picture of the Jersey shore after Sandy. Been sometime since we have seen a storm like Sandy. Another picture of natural occurring flooding. There is no more or less flooding across the US that I'm aware of. These really do not drive the point home of the earth warming. Working with FEMA for 13 years, it has been very quiet in the Atlantic. The predicted numerous storms from years ago never materialized. Melting ice caps do are a good indicator.

In order, the pictures are of (1) California wildfires from this past season, (2) the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, (3) the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, and (4) the tornado supercell that ravaged Georgia on January 22nd. That's this year.

Weather is getting worse. You can deny it if you'd like, but the science is against you. I don't expect it to change any minds in the bubble.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 05:03 PM

Sounds like racism to me.

Again, it's mockery, and obvious mockery at that. It is specifically directed toward those of you that feel your country is under attack from scary brown people and that protestors are being funded by the "global elites" and George Soros, which of course is white supremacist code-speak for the Jews.

Bilge_Rat

02-06-17, 05:10 PM

Climate change is an issue, I don't think anyone will contest that.

The only real question is at what rate and what should be done about it?

However, "Climate change" is now of these dogmas that you are not allowed to even ask questions about without being branded a "Luddite"....much like the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. :yep:

There was an interesting article out last week that claimed that temperatures in 2016 were actually about the same as in 1998:

Roy Spencer reports that the difference in satellite measurements between 2016 and 1998—the year of the last big El Nino warm cycle—is only 0.02C, within a 0.10C margin of error. Another satellite data set, RSS, confirms this result.

The comparison to 1998 is particularly important, because if the headline is that this year is not significantly hotter than temps 19 years ago, that take a lot of wind out of the “climate change” hysteria. It means we’re not seeing the runaway takeoff in global temperatures that the global warming theory predicted. As Judith Curry has been pointing out, recent temperatures are actually at or below the bottom range for all of the global warming predictions. That is the relevant context for this story, the failure of the data to match the theory, not some infinitesimal difference between this year and last.

Moreover, there is good reason to think that the margin of error in this temperature data is much larger than claimed. NASA and NOAA frequently “adjust” the temperature data to make up for changes in the way it is gathered. Somehow, when this happens, the data always adjusts to fit the theory, but the theory never adjusts to fit the data. The size of these adjustments is often larger that one tenth of one degree. But as Richard Lindzen puts it, “If you can adjust temperatures to two tenths of a degree, it means it wasn’t certain to two tenths of a degree.” So the margins of error are probably a good deal larger than advertised.

(...)

Speaking of which, you’ll notice that I just quoted Roy Spencer, Richard Lindzen, and Judith Curry. Who are these people, just some crazy bloggers? Enemies of science? Dr. Spencer is a former NASA climatologist and now a principal research scientist at UAH. Dr. Lindzen is emeritus Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology at the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences at MIT, and Judith Curry was, until her retirement just a few weeks ago, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/27/new-york-times-our-readers-are-too-dumb-to-understand-numbers/

August

02-06-17, 05:11 PM

Again, it's mockery, and obvious mockery at that. It is specifically directed toward those of you that feel your country is under attack from scary brown people and that protestors are being funded by the "global elites" and George Soros, which of course is white supremacist code-speak for the Jews.

Oh is it now? Apparently drinking that Democrat koolaid has made you quite the expert on this (or at least believe it to be so). But I have to ask is George Soro's name official white supremacist Jew code speak or is it just something that you,... er I mean "they" made up on the spot?

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 05:13 PM

Oh is it now? Apparently drinking that Democrat koolaid has made you quite the expert on this (or at least believe it to be so). But I have to ask is George Soro's name official white supremacist Jew code speak or is it just something that you,... er I mean "they" made up on the spot?

No, it's something I experienced first hand when white supremacists concerned citizens painted anti-Semitic graffiti on my garage and followed my children to school to take photos of them which they then mailed to us. It is why we're leaving the country.

Skybird

02-06-17, 05:15 PM

I just set up this, becasue in the coming triumphant days of Trumpism we will need this a lot: I already mentioned narcissism, but another category is met by Trump's behaviour and acting as well: the Paranoid Personality Disorder.

Diagnostical and Statistical Manual DSM-V (5th revision) of the American Association of Psychiatrists, chapter 301.0 (equals chapter F60.0 in the WHO's own International Classification of Deseases ICD).

http://www.theravive.com/therapedia/Paranoid-Personality-Disorder-DSM--5-301.0-(F60.0)

Disclaimer: No, I am not about just taking cheap shots at Trump, like I was not when saying he is a narcissist ( - LINK (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2463862&postcount=1389) - ). I am bloody serious: that guy is seriously ill and has a clinically relevant personality disorder. He will not change, an d he will not adapt, learn, or allow arguments or facts coming in his way.

I also increasingly get the impression that maybe he is abused by the queer crew of staff he has picked up. Some of those clerks to me are even worse than Trump himself. What a gang.

I claim the Americans have elected a mentally deranged patient into the White House. He belongs into an asylum instead. Malignant narcissism cannot be treated. Paranoia however can be tackled to certain degrees, if not curing it you can sometimes moderate it, ease it. Its complex and difficult, however, and Trump is old. Chances would be thin.

Patients may be ill, but this does not mean that illness cannot mean they are dangerous.

So much for "first 100 days".

yubba

02-06-17, 05:18 PM

Oh, nothing much other than....

http://a.scpr.org/i/f3cefc353c84dfd15aff75ed63e2869a/99856-full.jpg

.....and.....

http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/08/02/ce0a3e87-d3be-467b-b5be-7586b187a5bb/thumbnail/620x350/21b451901291162423f0b03d339e58ac/katrina.gif

....and also.....

http://inhabitat.com/nyc/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2013/05/jersey-roller-coaster-e1368545927684.jpg

.....and even this....

https://dsx.weather.com//util/image/v/WORTH_COUNTY_GEORGIA_AERIAL_VIEW_1_1280x720_734317 3613.jpg?v=at&w=485&h=273&api=7db9fe61-7414-47b5-9871-e17d87b8b6a0

See, it's political because its effects cause widespread destruction, and the government gets involved picking up the pieces. Moreover, it is political because it is something that impacts every citizen of this world, including those in the United States. Sorry to tell you that Trump's wall won't be able to keep it out.

You act like you never seen the weather change it happens all the time,, what you haven't seen yet is the death of an entire Ocean and no wants to fess up on how too fix it, or talk about it, the media doesn't want to talk about you want to cry climate change so some stuffed shirt can line his pockets with your money,, enjoy your radiated seafood

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/fukushima-aftermath-98-percent-of-the-pacific-ocean-floor-covered-by-dead-sea-creatures

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&n=782b6683&ind=&trs=wtt&cn=us&ln=en&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&brwsid=10326f61-3aa9-46d7-9d2f-d87f8909e005&st=tab&tpr=sc&searchfor=images+of+fukushima+dead+sea+life&ots=1486419243829

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 05:30 PM

You act like you never seen the weather change it happens all the time,, what you haven't seen yet is the death of an entire Ocean and no wants to fess up on how too fix it, or talk about it, the media doesn't want to talk about you want to cry climate change so some stuffed shirt can line his pockets with your money,, enjoy your radiated seafood

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/fukushima-aftermath-98-percent-of-the-pacific-ocean-floor-covered-by-dead-sea-creatures

http://search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?p2=%5EBNH%5Exdm001%5ES17547%5Eus&ptb=FC6A3A2E-AFF2-4F7F-BE3B-71F3C694693D&n=782b6683&ind=&trs=wtt&cn=us&ln=en&si=245051_TG-G-US-AM-Chrome&brwsid=10326f61-3aa9-46d7-9d2f-d87f8909e005&st=tab&tpr=sc&searchfor=images+of+fukushima+dead+sea+life&ots=1486419243829

Yubba, you're going to think I'm mocking you, but let me try to explain what happens with these conspiracy websites. They take stuff out of context, even while linking directly to the facts that contradict what is going on directly. The National Geographic article that your article cites is talking specifically about a recurring natural phenomenon that serves to feed large portions of the marine ecosystem. Here it is, if you didn't bother to click the link from your article.

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/11/22/sea-snot-explosions-feed-deep-sea-creatures/

To further illustrate the the out-of-context, here is what your article quoted:

In March 2012, less than one percent of the seafloor beneath Station M was covered in dead sea salps. By July 1, more than 98 percent of it was covered in the decomposing organisms, according to the study, published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/11/05/1315447110). The major increase in activity of deep-sea life in 2011 and 2012 weren’t limited to Station M, though: Other ocean-research stations reported similar data. Although climate change is a leading contender for explaining the major increases in 2011 and 2012, Huffard says that these spikes could be part of a longer-term trend that scientists haven’t yet observed.

Here's the unaltered quote from National Geographic:

Global warming may also be influencing the rhythm of sea snot explosions. For instance, warmer oceans may encourage the growth of more phytoplankton. The scientists observed the largest spikes in deep-sea productivity in 2011 and 2012, corresponding with massive phytoplankton blooms. (Also see “‘ (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/100916-sea-snot-gulf-bp-oil-spill-marine-snow-science-environment/)Sea Snot’ Explosion Caused by Gulf Oil Spill?” (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/100916-sea-snot-gulf-bp-oil-spill-marine-snow-science-environment/))
In March 2012, less than one percent of the seafloor beneath Station M was covered in dead sea salps. By July 1, more than 98 percent of it was covered in the decomposing organisms, according to the study, published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/11/05/1315447110).
The major increase in activity of deep-sea life in 2011 and 2012 weren’t limited to Station M, though: Other ocean-research stations reported similar data.
Although climate change is a leading contender for explaining the major increases in 2011 and 2012, Huffard says that these spikes could be part of a longer-term trend that scientists haven’t yet observed.

Not only does it make no mention of or allusion to Fukushima, it specifically mentions global warming, which works against both your point and the article's.

Come on already.

Skybird

02-06-17, 05:36 PM

Poland attacked Germany first. It was on the internet radio.

yubba

02-06-17, 06:14 PM

Yubba, you're going to think I'm mocking you, but let me try to explain what happens with these . They take stuff out of context, even while linking directly to the facts that contradict what is going on directly. The National Geographic article that your article cites is talking specifically about a recurring natural phenomenon that serves to feed large portions of the marine ecosystem. Here it is, if you didn't bother to click the link from your article.

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/11/22/sea-snot-explosions-feed-deep-sea-creatures/

To further illustrate the the out-of-context, here is what your article quoted:

Here's the unaltered quote from National Geographic:

Not only does it make no mention of or allusion to Fukushima, it specifically mentions global warming, which works against both your point and the article's.

Come on already.

Oh,, not at all,, might I extent the same concern to you,,, you shouldn't take the left leaning conspiracy websites or the mainstream media to heart,, with the conspiracies of the Russians hacking the Election,, or Trump lied and got his crownies to rig the electorial colledge ,, or the tea baggers are racist,, and it's the United States fault that the sea level is riseing or it was a video's fault.. No I'm more worried about your denial.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 06:19 PM

Oh,, not at all,, might I extent the same concern to you,,, you shouldn't take the left leaning conspiracy websites

I don't frequent any conspiracy websites. The only things I see are the ones you post.

or the mainstream media to heart,,

The mainstream media cites their sources.

with the conspiracies of the Russians hacking the Election,,

That would be the FBI

or Trump lied and got his crownies to rig the electorial colledge ,,

Never heard that one.

or the tea baggers are racist,,

There were a lot of racists at those rallies.

and it's the United States fault the sea level is riseing

It's everybody's fault. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it.

or it was a video's fault..

That doesn't make any sense.

yubba

02-06-17, 06:43 PM

I don't frequent any conspiracy websites. The only things I see are the ones you post.

The mainstream media cites their sources.

That would be the FBI

Never heard that one.

There were a lot of racists at those rallies.

It's everybody's fault. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it.

That doesn't make any sense.

you did site national geographic maybe you should up date your reading,, it seems they are in as much denial as you are.. and if there was any racist at a tea party event ,, they were probably a democrat plant to demonize the movement,,, but it does seem the democrat rioters don't need any help from us they seem to be doing a fine job on their own ..

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/search/?proxystylesheet=site_search&site=default_collection&start=0&client=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=%2A&requiredfields=description&q=fukushima%20radiation&

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 06:48 PM

you did site national geographic maybe you should up date your reading,, it seems they are in as much denial as you are..

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/search/?proxystylesheet=site_search&site=default_collection&start=0&client=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=%2A&requiredfields=description&q=fukushima%20radiation&

The article that is linked by your link (why don't you just link the article directly?) also doesn't say anything to validate your claim about "dead oceans". Quite the opposite, in fact. From the article:

“Wind, rain and salt spray has been pounding that material for more than a year,” Kathryn Higley, head of the Department of Nuclear Engineering & Radiation Health Physics at Oregon State University, told the Seattle paper. “Anything that was on there is going to have washed off to extremely low, if not undetectable levels.”

So, enough already.

yubba

02-06-17, 07:40 PM

The article that is linked by your link (why don't you just link the article directly?) also doesn't say anything to validate your claim about "dead oceans". Quite the opposite, in fact. From the article:

So, enough already.

yeah I know,, but you said earlier it was a natural accurence.. I wonder how much money the National Geographic get's from the government,, which is probably just chuck full of leftist,, if you paid me enough I'd tell you the sun is purple,, see leftist grave power and what better way to get power is to scare people in believing they are at fault for the planet falling part told by paid off scientist..

And now about your racism as I see it the left are nothing more than a bunch of control freaks,,they want to control every aspect of our lives because they think we aren't smart enough to run our own lives without their jackboot on our necks no matter what color creed or religion,,that sounds pretty racist to me ,,, and you can't understand why Trump won,, I know why you are freaking,, you lost your power ..

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 08:08 PM

yeah I know,, but you said earlier it was a natural accurence.. I wonder how much money the National Geographic get's from the government,, which is probably just chuck full of leftist,, if you paid me enough I'd tell you the sun is purple,, see leftist grave power and what better way to get power is to scare people in believing they are at fault for the planet falling part told by paid off scientist..

Again, I didn't pull the National Geographic article to counter the one you originally linked to. In fact, I didn't pull it up at all. It was that very article that cited the National Geographic piece as its source. Reading said article, one finds that no claim made by the one that you posted can be found anywhere in the sourced article.

And now about your racism as I see it the left are nothing more than a bunch of control freaks,,they want to control every aspect of our lives because they think we aren't smart enough to run our own lives without their jackboot on our necks no matter what color creed or religion,,that sounds pretty racist to me ,,, and you can't understand why Trump won,, I know why you are freaking,, you lost your power ..

I'm "freaking" because white supremacists are threatening my family and law enforcement is doing little about it. So we're gone. If you care about your politics so much that you're going to threaten my children, then you can have your America. Come July we'll have new hope in a new land.

Onkel Neal

02-06-17, 08:26 PM

No, it's something I experienced first hand when white supremacists concerned citizens painted anti-Semitic graffiti on my garage and followed my children to school to take photos of them which they then mailed to us. It is why we're leaving the country.

You just live in the wrong part of the country.

May I ask, where are you fleeing to?

AndyJWest

02-06-17, 08:38 PM

You just live in the wrong part of the country.

May I ask, where are you fleeing to?

So being threatened by white supremacists is TS's fault for living in the 'wrong part of the country'? That is a truly appalling suggestion...

Buddahaid

02-06-17, 08:43 PM

Big country and all sorts of people.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 08:43 PM

You just live in the wrong part of the country.

May I ask, where are you fleeing to?

Yeah Pennsylvania's a one of America's hotbeds of racism, Neal. Selma, Montgomery and Allentown.

So being threatened by white supremacists is TS's fault for living in the 'wrong part of the country'? That is a truly appalling suggestion...

To be fair, I didn't expect there to be a whole lot of understanding here. :subsim:

Onkel Neal

02-06-17, 09:01 PM

So being threatened by white supremacists is TS's fault for living in the 'wrong part of the country'? That is a truly appalling suggestion...

No, not his fault. I'm just saying, some parts of the country are not as troublesome as others. Anyway, who knew Pennsylvania was a hotbed of white power.

Man, you guys are determined to read things a certain way.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:08 PM

No, not his fault. I'm just saying, some parts of the country are not as troublesome as others. Anyway, who knew Pennsylvania was a hotbed of white power.

It's not. But its here now, and we're not staying around to wait for it to take our children. We had a very long talk and decided in the end to get away from North America and Europe entirely. So we're going to Perth. It isn't going to be perfect. It isn't going to be free of white supremacy. But it is in an English-speaking nation with a comparable system of government, comparable standard of living, year-round summer and happens to be on the literal other side of the world from Trumpistan.

We were fast tracked through the immigration process due to our education, background and positions, especially hers. She's a cardiac surgeon. Had hospitals fighting over her. Pushed us right to the front of the line. She heads over with the puppy at the end of April. I follow with the girls at the beginning of July. So if you all could wait to start purging the undesirables until after the Independence Day holiday I'd be grateful.

Onkel Neal

02-06-17, 09:11 PM

And a comparable percentage of white people? No, a whole lot whiter. Well, ok, I guess.

Ok, I'll pull some strings and keep the fascists at bay for you.

yubba

02-06-17, 09:13 PM

Yeah Pennsylvania's a one of America's hotbeds of racism, Neal. Selma, Montgomery and Allentown.

To be fair, I didn't expect there to be a whole lot of understanding here. :subsim:

Not to laugh but PA. is ran by democrats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Pennsylvania

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:19 PM

And a comparable percentage of white people? No, a whole lot whiter. Well, ok, I guess.

Ok, I'll pull some strings and keep the fascists at bay for you.

I will shed tears of relief and joy once I get my kids on that plane leaving LAX. America failed us.

yubba

02-06-17, 09:26 PM

and the Mayor of Allentown is also Democrat you need to find a nice red state,, God you just can't make this up,,but, I'm sorry that you have been victimized no one deserves that. Don't hear of that here in Florida,, that's why I hate liberal Democrats nothin but racist.
Ed Pawlowski
(2006–Present, Democrat)
Current mayor, elected for third term in 2013 (2014–2018). Born in Chicago, Illinois, 4 June 1965. Moved to Allentown area, 1996, city, 2000. Previously served as Executive Director of Lehigh Housing Development Corporation; later became Director of Community and Economic Development for Allentown under Mayor Afflerbach. Elected mayor after Afflerbach declined re-election. Elected in 2005 (58.6%), re-elected in 2009 (73.6%) and 2013 (62%). Major initiative has been the Central Business District Redevelopment project as a result of Neighborhood Improvement Zone (NIZ) legislation passed by the Pennsylvania legislature. Re-elected 2013 for a third consecutive term as Mayor.[2

yubba

02-06-17, 09:28 PM

I will shed tears of relief and joy once I get my kids on that plane leaving LAX. America failed us. So where are you going America didn't fail you the last 8 years did. well I caught up on some reading Perth you say ,,

Oberon

02-06-17, 09:31 PM

Climate change is an issue, I don't think anyone will contest that.

The only real question is at what rate and what should be done about it?

Exponentially, three major science outlets, the NOAA, the Goddard Institute and the University of Berkeley all agree that 2016 was the hottest year on record.
As for what should be done about it? Well, that is up for debate but quite frankly aside from economics there are precious few downsides for working to reduce carbon emissions and pollution, to avoid more Flint style situations. However in this modern world economics is more powerful than anything else, even human life and so I don't expect too much to change.
I think that we've passed the point where we can stop this thing, the primary thing we can do now is perhaps hope to make this artificial temperature swing not last so long as other hot and cold ages.
The big thing now is to prepare our cities and nations for the worst. A crash course in desalinisation plants in California for one thing, a coastal sea defence project all along the eastern seaboard of the US which takes it account the potential for sea level rises, never mind building a wall against Mexico, build one against the sea.
It's better to make these things and never need them, than to need them and not have them, and have hundreds die as a result.
There's a lot of uncertainty about what is going to happen, models can be made, data analysed but the data indicates that the climate is changing, and we really need to crush the persistant myth that it is all faked, or is a plot by the Chinese to end American industry or some other nonsense. Such things are holding back those who need to get in with both hands and help ready the world for the new climatic era.
A major percentage of the worlds cities and population centers are either by a river or next to the sea. Right now that's fine, but in a hundred to two hundred years those cities are going to turn into a bad imitation of Venice.
Imagine the displacement that this is going to cause, the entire populace of all the cities of the east and west coasts having to move inland. Where will they go?
Of course, this is not something that's going to happen overnight, but flooding events like those during Hurricane Sandy are going to start to get more regular as the sea level creeps upwards.

None of this is going to happen in our lifetimes, or even that of our children (hopefully) but rather than kicking the can down the road we should really start making progress on preparing for it now.

How do we prepare? Well...that's a harder question. There are obviously best and worst case scenarios for this whole thing, and really you need to prepare for the worst case ones, but the scale of the worst case scenario is such that I think most people would just give up rather than tackle it.
It's like the Yellowstone caldera, it could go up anytime over the next century or not for another millennia, but eventually it will go up...but there's nothing anyone can do to prepare for it because the effects will be so devastating that you simply cannot prepare for it.
One way is to try and wall the sea out, a bit like the Netherlands, that will probably be too expensive to do the entire coastline so you'd be looking to wall up major cities and then build bridges to the new mainland, of course that would limit urban sprawl but you can counter that by building upward and indeed, building onto the water.
Another way might be to start building new cities, far enough inland that even the worst case scenario of sea level rise won't affect them, one advantage is that you'll get the knowledge of several centuries of city building in order to make it very efficient and clean. The down-side is that very few of these futuristic city projects ever seen to get off the drawing board, or if they do they end up more like Milton Keynes than New Jerusalem (ie, pretty terrible).
Honestly...I don't have the answer, and not a lot of people do, hence the impasse, however I think that we are going to see a shift in thinking over the next decade from "We need to prevent climate change" to "We need to adapt to climate change", in fact you can see that shift already in play amongst many scientists. This thing has picked up enough inertia that even if we turned off every fossil fuel producing object tomorrow it would still be a while before it did anything beneficial to the environment.
That being said, that doesn't mean that we should give up on efforts to reduce our impact, I mean conflict, pandemics and other major disasters aside, humanity is still going to be around in a hundred to two hundred years so someone is going to have to deal with this problem, even if it isn't us.
And at the end of the day, I think that's probably where the biggest problem with dealing with climate change lies, it's convincing people to do something that won't directly benefit them, and that is not easy.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:32 PM

and the Mayor of Allentown is also Democrat you need to find a nice red state,, God you just can't make this up thanks TA,,but, I'm sorry that you have been victimized no one deserves that. Don't hear of that here in Florida
Ed Pawlowski
(2006–Present, Democrat)
Current mayor, elected for third term in 2013 (2014–2018). Born in Chicago, Illinois, 4 June 1965. Moved to Allentown area, 1996, city, 2000. Previously served as Executive Director of Lehigh Housing Development Corporation; later became Director of Community and Economic Development for Allentown under Mayor Afflerbach. Elected mayor after Afflerbach declined re-election. Elected in 2005 (58.6%), re-elected in 2009 (73.6%) and 2013 (62%). Major initiative has been the Central Business District Redevelopment project as a result of Neighborhood Improvement Zone (NIZ) legislation passed by the Pennsylvania legislature. Re-elected 2013 for a third consecutive term as Mayor.[2

It doesn't have anything to do with the Mayor or the Governor or even Trump himself. It has everything to do with Trump's followers who are so ardent in their hatred that they feel the need to threaten. When it was just my wife we were alarmed, but were going to stand fast. Once it went to the children, well, nothing is worth their lives. I would never move to a "red" state.

Rejoice yubba. You got rid of 2 anti-Trump votes. Granted one is a cardiac surgeon and the other is a university chair so there's the "brain drain" factor as well. But you said repeatedly that you all don't need scientists and academics and doctors and whatnot. Damn eggheads ruining America and all that.

Oberon

02-06-17, 09:39 PM

Don't hear of that here in Florida

Sure don't

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/seminole-county-home-vandalized-spray-painted-swas/26984853

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/investigation-underway-after-2-racist-signs-posted-above-water-fountains-at-first-coast-high-school/466118526

http://www.local10.com/news/crime/detectives-investigate-after-sign-vandalized-outside-boynton-beach-mosque

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:43 PM

Sure don't

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/seminole-county-home-vandalized-spray-painted-swas/26984853

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/investigation-underway-after-2-racist-signs-posted-above-water-fountains-at-first-coast-high-school/466118526

http://www.local10.com/news/crime/detectives-investigate-after-sign-vandalized-outside-boynton-beach-mosque

And lets not forget that whole Trayvon Martin incident. No, there's no racial tension in Florida.

yubba

02-06-17, 09:43 PM

https://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/pennsylvania-588194.asp

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:45 PM

https://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/pennsylvania-588194.asp

You're now citing clickbait sites? Come on man, its a list site. Christ, it's even called TheTopTens. :haha:

yubba

02-06-17, 09:48 PM

And lets not forget that whole Trayvon Martin incident. No, there's no racial tension in Florida.

no you made that into something it was not a white hispanic get real and it was found in a court of law self defence,, just like black lives matter is based on a lie you democrats cooked up,,you all made this mess,,

yubba

02-06-17, 09:51 PM

You're now citing clickbait sites? Come on man, its a list site. Christ, it's even called TheTopTens. :haha:

now why would they spread lies about a nice democrat state like PA ???

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:51 PM

no you made that into something it was not a white hispanic get real and it was found in a court of law self defence,, just like black lives matter is based on a lie you democrats cooked up you all made this mess,,

Wait, I exacerbated the Trayvon Martin shooting? Me personally? Everybody was getting along swimmingly until I made some guy shoot another guy? Yubba, you're jumping yourself jumping the shark.

yubba

02-06-17, 09:53 PM

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 09:56 PM

now why would they spread lies about a nice democrat state like PA ???

I can't believe I'm doing this again. Here's the list in question from TheTopTens.

https://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/

Now, it's formulated by a user (not even a staff member) going by the handle samuelMCL7, who claims to be 19 years old and from the USA at the time of posting. He cites no statistics. The blurbs are from other users, so I am sure it is all very scientific.

Anyway, on that list Pennsylvania is 19th. Above it are Texas (3), Arkansas (6) and (gasp) the glorious utopia of Florida (12). So, according to the utterly meaningless list by an anonymous poster, Pennsylvania is more hospitable than Florida as far as race relations go.

There, all settled.

yubba

02-06-17, 09:59 PM

Wait, I exacerbated the Trayvon Martin shooting? Me personally? Everybody was getting along swimmingly until I made some guy shoot another guy? Yubba, you're jumping yourself jumping the shark.

listen to you,, you just can't handle the truth,, the thug got what was coming to him,, he chose to beat George to a pulp and he died for his stupidity or his black privledge,, just like you libs think you got the right to riot and do what ever.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:00 PM

listen to you,, you just can't handle the truth,, the thug got what was coming to him,, he chose to beat George to a pulp and he died for his stupidity or his black privledge,, just like you libs think you got the right to riot and do what ever.

Oh, black privledge. Glad we got that straightened out.

yubba

02-06-17, 10:02 PM

I can't believe I'm doing this again. Here's the list in question from TheTopTens.

https://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/

Now, it's formulated by a user (not even a staff member) going by the handle samuelMCL7, who claims to be 19 years old and from the USA at the time of posting. He cites no statistics. The blurbs are from other users, so I am sure it is all very scientific.

Anyway, on that list Pennsylvania is 19th. Above it are Texas (3), Arkansas (6) and (gasp) the glorious utopia of Florida (12). So, according to the utterly meaningless list by an anonymous poster, Pennsylvania is more hospitable than Florida as far as race relations go.

There, all settled.

you know something race relations were pretty good right up to 8 years ago I bet 8 years ago you weren't ever a victim of racism were you.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:03 PM

you know something race relations were pretty good right up to 8 years ago I bet 8 years ago you weren't ever a victim of racism were you.

We didn't experience this sort of thing until about a week after this past election day. Wasn't like this in 2001, 2005, 2009 or 2013.

yubba

02-06-17, 10:06 PM

Oh, black privledge. Glad we got that straightened out.
what,, you want to call it a right to beat on white people,, if Obama got his 3rd term that probably would have became law

yubba

02-06-17, 10:08 PM

We didn't experience this sort of thing until about a week after this past election day. Wasn't like this in 2001, 2005, 2009 or 2013.
then you shouldn't have had that Trump sign in your yard,, what did the democrat run police department say about it..

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:08 PM

what,, you want to call it a right to beat on white people,,

I didn't call beating on anyone a right. You're the one ranting about black people.

if Obama got his 3rd term that probably would have became law

I thought Obama took your guns. Should have been easy to get a third term without the freedom militia to foul it up for him. His Kenyan shock troops would have made like work of any resistance. What happened?

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:12 PM

then you shouldn't have had that Trump sign in your yard

You're being ignorant as usual, but what happened is that a temple that some Cambodian immigrants had founded in the community was vandalized with white supremacist symbols and MAGA signs. We did the neighborly thing and helped the monks clean up. Some guys showed up, yelled at us and we didn't think too much of it until a few days later when swastikas, slurs about George Soros and threats to kill the "Jew bitch" were painted on our garage door. Then photographs came in the mail of our children leaving school.

Good Americans just trying to make America great again.

Rockstar

02-06-17, 10:14 PM

you two are a match made in heaven you should get a room :har:

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:16 PM

you two are a match made in heaven you should get a room :har:

Glad you find it all funny. Glad it amuses you. You're definitely the sort that America deserves.

I've wasted enough time with white supremacists this evening. You can all go to hell. This may all be a game to you, but it is real to me. These are our lives, our children's lives. Now, you want to laugh at me, fine. Says more about you than it does about me.

No one will see it that way here. To you its just another liberal college professor and his jew wife and kids leaving the country. Something to celebrate. So that's what it is. God bless America.

Sailor Steve

02-06-17, 10:36 PM

Damn Democrats
Let's see...
Governor: Republican.
Attorney General: Republican.
Senators: 1 Republican, 1 Democrat.
Representatives: 16 Republicans, 11 Democrats.
Voters: 40% Democrat, 36% Republican, 20% Independent, 4% minor parties.

It would seem that the majority of State Officials are Republican. The majority of voters are Democrats, but only by the smallest of percentages.

The real problem is that racists and supremacists know no boundaries. Yes, there are a great many Right-Wing racists, who still believe non-whites are inferior. Yes, there are a great many Left-Wing racists, who use the anger against the whites to foment trouble at the expense of the people who follow them.

The biggest part of the problem is the people who blindly follow one side or the other, and whose only argument is to blame it on someone else. There can be no honest debate until people like you realize that the problem is on both sides, and part of the problem is that there are sides at all. As long as you only see "Your" side and believe them to have the only truth you can never see the real problem.

You don't seem interested in having an honest discussion, and you don't seem interested in learning where you might be wrong. The same is true of some others here, but you seem to be the one who would rather preach than discuss. Debate isn't about claiming you have the truth and putting labels on anyone who disagrees. Debate is about learning what others think and trying to find common ground.

Buddahaid

02-06-17, 10:37 PM

Happy now yubba? Such compassion should be it's own reward. Don't look but your colours are showing.

Kptlt. Neuerburg

02-06-17, 10:44 PM

https://s6.postimg.org/z6jxx24e9/tumblr_okp9e0_KVHT1sn4eavo1_1280.png

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 10:51 PM

https://s6.postimg.org/z6jxx24e9/tumblr_okp9e0_KVHT1sn4eavo1_1280.png

I think in the end that's why I really need to buckle down and stay away. I can't discuss this and be okay with the other side. It's personal, and deeply so. It strikes at the things that I care more about than anything else in the world, and when the opinion on the other side is given there is no way that I can stand for that.

What is left is me yelling at people and telling them to go to hell. You all are not getting the discussion that you want and I subject myself to the sort of anger and misery that I'm trying to escape. I've got to do better in keeping away from these forums, as I can't be civil. It's too personal.

yubba

02-06-17, 10:53 PM

You're being ignorant as usual, but what happened is that a temple that some Cambodian immigrants had founded in the community was vandalized with white supremacist symbols and MAGA signs. We did the neighborly thing and helped the monks clean up. Some guys showed up, yelled at us and we didn't think too much of it until a few days later when swastikas, slurs about George Soros and threats to kill the "Jew bitch" were painted on our garage door. Then photographs came in the mail of our children leaving school.

Good Americans just trying to make America great again.

and here you go insulting me,, as usual because you can't keep up,, sounds like some of the democrat Hitler youth has a problem with you in a democrat town in a democrat state make scense to me

yubba

02-06-17, 11:04 PM

Happy now yubba? Such compassion should be it's own reward. Don't look but your colours are showing.

and what colours would that be, oh that would be red white and blue which is extended to all that choose too obey the law of the land, you just can't admit this is all on you ,, Trump is a result of you and your liberal pc bs ,, libs have turn states and cities into third world war zones why is that..

Oberon

02-06-17, 11:06 PM

you know something race relations were pretty good right up to 8 years ago

They sure were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benton_Harbor_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigford_v._Glickman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches#1991-2000

Oberon

02-06-17, 11:08 PM

No one will see it that way here. To you its just another liberal college professor and his jew wife and kids leaving the country. Something to celebrate. So that's what it is. God bless America.

Americas loss is Australias gain...can see that happening a lot. Other nations will benefit from the brain drain.

Kptlt. Neuerburg

02-06-17, 11:12 PM

I think in the end that's why I really need to buckle down and stay away. I can't discuss this and be okay with the other side. It's personal, and deeply so. It strikes at the things that I care more about than anything else in the world, and when the opinion on the other side is given there is no way that I can stand for that.

What is left is me yelling at people and telling them to go to hell. You all are not getting the discussion that you want and I subject myself to the sort of anger and misery that I'm trying to escape. I've got to do better in keeping away from these forums, as I can't be civil. It's too personal.I hear ya, that's why aside from the odd post every now and then I just prefer to sit back and just watch what's going on it's more fun that way.

Just remember there is always this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1fMvLbE85E.

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 11:16 PM

Americas loss is Australias gain...can see that happening a lot. Other nations will benefit from the brain drain.

It's nice of you to say, and I apologize for crying on your shoulder. I am angry, and I know exactly where that anger comes from -- fear. My wife and I are scared all the time. What if we were to lose them? What would we do? How do you go on from that?

We don't let on to the girls, but kids are smart. They know when something isn't right. I vacated my position at the university so that I could be home with them all the time. I drop them off at school. I pick them. Up. Christ, I get there an hour ahead of time so that I am first in line. She calls home every hour. "Are they okay?" "Did the school call?" They don't go to friends houses. They never go outside alone, and they stay inside as much as possible. And daddy and mommy look so tired all the time. They know we don't sleep.

It breaks you Jamie. It crushes you down until there's nothing left but hate, and you're on SubSim at 11:15 pm alternating between outright hostility and gushing about despair. And my wife is right here next to me, watching reruns of Wings and trying not to cry. Our life is hell. We've got each other and that's it.

yubba

02-06-17, 11:17 PM

Let's see...
Governor: Republican.
Attorney General: Republican.
Senators: 1 Republican, 1 Democrat.
Representatives: 16 Republicans, 11 Democrats.
Voters: 40% Democrat, 36% Republican, 20% Independent, 4% minor parties.

It would seem that the majority of State Officials are Republican. The majority of voters are Democrats, but only by the smallest of percentages.

The real problem is that racists and supremacists know no boundaries. Yes, there are a great many Right-Wing racists, who still believe non-whites are inferior. Yes, there are a great many Left-Wing racists, who use the anger against the whites to foment trouble at the expense of the people who follow them.

The biggest part of the problem is the people who blindly follow one side or the other, and whose only argument is to blame it on someone else. There can be no honest debate until people like you realize that the problem is on both sides, and part of the problem is that there are sides at all. As long as you only see "Your" side and believe them to have the only truth you can never see the real problem.

You don't seem interested in having an honest discussion, and you don't seem interested in learning where you might be wrong. The same is true of some others here, but you seem to be the one who would rather preach than discuss. Debate isn't about claiming you have the truth and putting labels on anyone who disagrees. Debate is about learning what others think and trying to find common ground.

You're right Steve I'm not interested in having a honest discussion with race baiters,, and folk that think marxism is the way to go,, or folks that throw wild statements out there just to see if they stick, and will insult you at a drop of a hat because you don't agree with their opinion, I believe in and follow the Constitution,and the rule of law that some of you can't or refuse to grasp, what charter do you follow ???

yubba

02-06-17, 11:22 PM

[QUOTE=Oberon;2464089]They sure were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benton_Harbor_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigford_v._Glickman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches#1991-2000[/QUOTE}

And how many Africans did the Brits slaughter I don't remember us being involve ,,and Obama sure sent that Bust of Churchill back to you didn't he :haha:

Takeda Shingen

02-06-17, 11:25 PM

I hear ya, that's why aside from the odd post every now and then I just prefer to sit back and just watch what's going on it's more fun that way.

Just remember there is always this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1fMvLbE85E.

I don't really have a reply, but I want you to know that I am not ignoring you and I appreciate the effort to try and cheer. There's just really nothing that's going to do that right now.

AndyJWest

02-06-17, 11:28 PM

Chaplin was of course eventually barred from the United States for having political opinions that the ruling elite didn't approve of. He had this to say about it:

Whether I re-entered that unhappy country or not was of little consequence to me. I would like to have told them that the sooner I was rid of that hate-beleaguered atmosphere the better, that I was fed up of America's insults and moral pomposity... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin#Monsieur_Verdoux_and_communist_acc usations

Kptlt. Neuerburg

02-06-17, 11:29 PM

I don't really have a reply, but I want you to know that I am not ignoring you and I appreciate the effort to try and cheer. There's just really nothing that's going to do that right now. It's cool, just try to take easy if you can Tak.

Kptlt. Neuerburg

02-06-17, 11:35 PM

Chaplin was of course eventually barred from the United States for having political opinions that the ruling elite didn't approve of. He had this to say about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chaplin#Monsieur_Verdoux_and_communist_acc usations Yeah I know about it, it's all because Chaplin said that the Soviets where great because at that time they where the only ones really fighting back against the Nazis and McCarthy didn't like that one bit. Then again Chaplin once said, "I remain just one thing, and one thing only, and that is a clown. It places me on a far higher plane then any politician."

Oberon

02-06-17, 11:56 PM

It's nice of you to say, and I apologize for crying on your shoulder. I am angry, and I know exactly where that anger comes from -- fear. My wife and I are scared all the time. What if we were to lose them? What would we do? How do you go on from that?

We don't let on to the girls, but kids are smart. They know when something isn't right. I vacated my position at the university so that I could be home with them all the time. I drop them off at school. I pick them. Up. Christ, I get there an hour ahead of time so that I am first in line. She calls home every hour. "Are they okay?" "Did the school call?" They don't go to friends houses. They never go outside alone, and they stay inside as much as possible. And daddy and mommy look so tired all the time. They know we don't sleep.

It breaks you Jamie. It crushes you down until there's nothing left but hate, and you're on SubSim at 11:15 pm alternating between outright hostility and gushing about despair. And my wife is right here next to me, watching reruns of Wings and trying not to cry. Our life is hell. We've got each other and that's it.

No-one should have to go through that Tak, and for such a simple thing, for helping in the community. No, it's an ugly thing that has awoken from slumber and I'm glad you're getting away from it. I won't pretend that Australia is free from problems but it seems to have its head on straighter than many at the moment, certainly better than the rest of the western world.
I don't know where things are going in the western world right now, I see the rise of far-right groups, who, if you had said twenty years ago they would be so close to power you'd have been laughed off the fledgling internet. It seems that in times of economic crisis we once again fall into the same old traps that our predecessors walked into, the sirens call of the men and women who say "We can fix this, it's all their fault."
History may not repeat, but it sure as hell does rhyme, as the saying goes.

Oberon

02-07-17, 12:00 AM

They sure were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benton_Harbor_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigford_v._Glickman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches#1991-2000

And how many Africans did the Brits slaughter I don't remember us being involve ,,and Obama sure sent that Bust of Churchill back to you didn't he :haha:

And what does that have to do with the price of fish? :hmmm:

Sailor Steve

02-07-17, 12:28 AM

then you shouldn't have had that Trump sign in your yard,, what did the democrat run police department say about it..

and here you go insulting me,, as usual because you can't keep up,, sounds like some of the democrat Hitler youth has a problem with you in a democrat town in a democrat state make scense to me
Okay, you're truly starting to sound like a troll here. Whether the people responsible for Takeda's problems are Conservative, Liberal, or anything else is irrelevant. He is undergoing some serious problems, and you're trying to blame it on him. This is less of what I was defending earlier and getting more personal.

and what colours would that be, oh that would be red white and blue which is extended to all that choose too obey the law of the land, you just can't admit this is all on you ,, Trump is a result of you and your liberal pc bs ,, libs have turn states and cities into third world war zones why is that..
This needs to stop. You're once again trying to blame everything on "the other side". I tried to explain to you that hate knows no sides, but you keep sticking to your single track.

You're right Steve I'm not interested in having a honest discussion with race baiters,, and folk that think marxism is the way to go,, or folks that throw wild statements out there just to see if they stick, and will insult you at a drop of a hat because you don't agree with their opinion, I believe in and follow the Constitution,and the rule of law that some of you can't or refuse to grasp, what charter do you follow ???
You apparently missed the point altogether, or else chose to ignore it. The point was that you don't seem to be interested in having an honest discussion with anyone, ever. As I said at the beginning of this post, your posts are starting to sound more and more like trolling, and that will not be tolerated.

Buddahaid

02-07-17, 01:47 AM

and what colours would that be, oh that would be red white and blue which is extended to all that choose too obey the law of the land, you just can't admit this is all on you ,, Trump is a result of you and your liberal pc bs ,, libs have turn states and cities into third world war zones why is that..

All on me. Yes, of course, I see it now. It's funny then that I don't consider myself all that left in my thinking, that I haven't spoken out against Trumps actions as President yet(I think:hmmm:), that I consider the protests against Donald Trump misdirected energy, that I think the anarchists that turn too many of these popular protests into debacles should be punished. Yet I'm to blame because I challenge your thinking.

One of the most peculiar things about all this is how you apply the same negative labels to the Democrats/liberals that I've always associated with Republicans/far right. :doh:

Catfish

02-07-17, 02:45 AM

^ That's the new deal, all negative is being placed on "the left". Even the most classic far-right with racial tendencies and "Uebermensch" attitude like the NSDAP are now "left", last time over at another forum we all know, the Ku-Klux-Klan was "left". No joke.
If a right-wing politician does something bad, he is may be "right-wing", but he must be doing something "leftist".

Black has become white, and the moon is made of green cheese. You cannot really stand up against it, because the accusations and deceptions are so completely out of bounds that any reasonable try to counter that is doomed. Lying or "alternative facts" are the new standard, and there is no need for proof.
Who cries loudest ist the "winner" now. Mrs May almost seems backwards and old-school with her Thatcher-rhetorics, compared to Trump.

Jimbuna

02-07-17, 05:20 AM

Suffice to say I've been monitoring events on this thread since its inception and even more so over recent days.

So, if I may and in bite-size chunks.....

It's nice of you to say, and I apologize for crying on your shoulder. I am angry, and I know exactly where that anger comes from -- fear. My wife and I are scared all the time. What if we were to lose them? What would we do? How do you go on from that?

We don't let on to the girls, but kids are smart. They know when something isn't right. I vacated my position at the university so that I could be home with them all the time. I drop them off at school. I pick them. Up. Christ, I get there an hour ahead of time so that I am first in line. She calls home every hour. "Are they okay?" "Did the school call?" They don't go to friends houses. They never go outside alone, and they stay inside as much as possible. And daddy and mommy look so tired all the time. They know we don't sleep.

It breaks you Jamie. It crushes you down until there's nothing left but hate, and you're on SubSim at 11:15 pm alternating between outright hostility and gushing about despair. And my wife is right here next to me, watching reruns of Wings and trying not to cry. Our life is hell. We've got each other and that's it.

It grieves me to learn of the above Tom and I'd like you to know that there is a part of me regretting the fact I'm not able to be at your side to deal with these real life events which are totally inexcusable in any way shape or form. Dealing with such disgusting behaviour used to be my bread and butter and as a younger man, with the right training and support I readily admit I enjoyed dealing with the challenges as they presented themselves.

I wish you and your family every success and happiness in your future surroundings. I have relatives in Perth and they lead me to believe it is a wonderful place to plant your roots.

No-one should have to go through that Tak, and for such a simple thing, for helping in the community. No, it's an ugly thing that has awoken from slumber and I'm glad you're getting away from it. I won't pretend that Australia is free from problems but it seems to have its head on straighter than many at the moment, certainly better than the rest of the western world.
I don't know where things are going in the western world right now, I see the rise of far-right groups, who, if you had said twenty years ago they would be so close to power you'd have been laughed off the fledgling internet. It seems that in times of economic crisis we once again fall into the same old traps that our predecessors walked into, the sirens call of the men and women who say "We can fix this, it's all their fault."
History may not repeat, but it sure as hell does rhyme, as the saying goes.

Well said Jamie and knowing you personally as I do, I know how sincere you are in writing the above.

Okay, you're truly starting to sound like a troll here. Whether the people responsible for Takeda's problems are Conservative, Liberal, or anything else is irrelevant. He is undergoing some serious problems, and you're trying to blame it on him. This is less of what I was defending earlier and getting more personal.

This needs to stop. You're once again trying to blame everything on "the other side". I tried to explain to you that hate knows no sides, but you keep sticking to your single track.

You apparently missed the point altogether, or else chose to ignore it. The point was that you don't seem to be interested in having an honest discussion with anyone, ever. As I said at the beginning of this post, your posts are starting to sound more and more like trolling, and that will not be tolerated.

Yubba, read the above (from Steve in particular) very carefully Sir.

Now I suggest you read this...

May be they'll talk about this,,,

Management Notification: Don't try my better side anymore, I'm done with the warnings.
Last edited by Jimbuna; 02-01-2017 at 12:08 AM. Reason: No more and that is the final warning.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2462391&postcount=4

Should you choose to ignore, the choice is yours but don't ever say you weren't forewarned of the potential consequences.

vienna

02-07-17, 05:23 AM

@Takeda:

I am deeply saddened to read what you and your family have endured and I do not fault your decision to leave. Someone who would seek, on their own, to assist those being bullied by thugs, deserves not to be treated as your family has been. Over the years, decades, I have known more than a few persons who have dealt with similar situations and have seen more than a few make the same decision. No one should have to put up with such offensive and potentially dangerous behavior. For the sake of your family, I hope your remaining time here is uneventful and safe...

It is a sad situation when highly talented and skilled individuals in fields in which this nation is experiencing a growing deficiency find it necessary to go abroad rather than face such outrages. It is also a sad situation when many of the highly talented and skilled individuals who would like to come here and share their very much needed talents are finding the path obstructed more and more by mindless political idiots who have little or nothing of their own highly dubious talents to contribute. I live in Los Angeles and there are two very large, prestigious universities (UCLA & USC), several smaller but very influential colleges, a major technical university, the California institute of Technology (home of the Jet Propulsion Lab), and a burgeoning tech business starting to rival the Silicon Valley (with typical So. Cal style, the tech sector has been dubbed "Silicon Beach"). There are also several major medical centers here that are pioneering new treatment methods and medications and are at the forefronts of their research fields. And you know what I've observed over the years? An ever increasing number of the persons attending those universities and colleges, doing the research and development work at CalTech and JPL, and making the breakthroughs at those medical centers come from India, Pakistan, the Mideast, and, more recently, Asia, specifically China. When you walk through those facilities, you will see a very high percentage of the working population at those sites are not Caucasian, and, if you look at the directories of those institutions, you will see a very large number of 'non-American' names in highly responsible positions, positions they earned and usually earned having to "swim upstream"...

About 30 or so years ago, I was part of a project to update and upgrade the class registration system at one of the two major universities in LA. As part of the process, some of us actually worked the registration desks so as to be able to find and, if possible, correct on the spot any bugs that might crop up. After the first day, I commented to one of the university officials about the very high percentage of foreign students who had majors in and were registering for classes in highly technical and scientific fields and a correspondingly high percentage of US born students with majors and registrations in fields in non-technical fields, with a very large portion of that group going for MBAs. The official said the trend had been going on for some time and there was a possibility of there soon being far fewer US graduates in the sciences than foreign-born graduates. Now, decades later, the possibility has pretty much been proven as fact. The reality is if it were not for those who came from abroad, often paying very high prices both financially and personally, and who applied themselves to those fields while US student were following the "Gordon Gekko" path, medicine, technology, and the underlying educational structure for the sciences would be in a very sad state indeed. If the US is at all a major power in the sciences and technical education, it is because those people were welcomed in; it is because, even after they got their degrees, they opted to stay here and continue to contribute; and it is because some of the best and the brightest in their fields, educated in some of the finest universities and colleges abroad also chose to come here and contribute. Yet, for some people, all they see is "foreigners", not like "us", not "real Americans". Well, fine, then let's send them all packing, all the foreigner doctors, and scientists, and professors, and creators and developers of new tech; then, when the dust settles and the US finds itself having to play catch up with the rest of the world, watching as other nations who were not so 'picky' about the origins of those who just wanted to pursue their fields, maybe, then , the "wisdom" of our leaders won't seem so "wise". After all, if it weren't for some other nations in the past deciding it was a good idea to get rid of all those pesky academics and scientists who questioned their governments or just didn't fit in with the "real citizens" of their lands, the US wouldn't have had all those foreigners like Einstein, Fermi, and the Fanos. That whole idea of forcing out the "undesirables" worked out real well for those nations, didn't it?...

So what is is the scorecard in this situation? A cardiologist (a field where the US shortage is critical) and a respected academic versus a larger number of brainless, thick, thugs who make no noteworthy or beneficial contribution to our nation: it must be golf because the winning point is 2 and Australia and not the US is the winner. At least Trump will have a few more voters for his most-likely-never-to-happen reelection...

Here is an interesting list of refugees whose home nations thought it was a good idea to force out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_refugees

And, just to show there is still hope for those of us who remain, this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/commuters-remove-anti-semitic-vandalism-manhattan-train-article-1.2964639

One person stands up, others stand with them; maybe we can eventually erase more than graffiti...

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