US Politics Thread 2016-2020 [Archive] - Page 40

Onkel Neal

07-18-20, 07:28 AM

Is this really true?

Ivanka and Potus: Sell Goya
Republicans: It is only fake news
Leftists: Laughing
Trump followers: Disgusting, it is fake news
Potus: Still sells Goya
Republicans: Let's not talk about it and blame something on Biden
Trump followers: Ok it is not fake ..must be GENIUS! How clever he is.
Rest of the world: Facepalm

Hahaha, great summation, Catfish :)

Man, Trump is really lagging in the polls, I've heard he's 14 points down in some key states. It seems to make sense, his handling of the pandemic is terrible and he's so tone deaf on the protests, I wonder if the polls are right this time...

President Biden: who doesn't even know what state he's in. :haha:

The offending words are ...

Quote:
Today, it gives me great honor, and by the way, we’re all truly blessed at the same time to have a leader like President Trump, who is a builder, and that’s what my grandfather did. He came to this country to build, to grow, to prosper. We have an incredible builder, and we pray. We pray for our leadership, our president, and we pray for our country that we will continue to prosper and to grow.
Seems pretty normal to me. Oh wait, he said something nice about the OrangeManBad. That must be it.

Meanwhile back in 2012 Michele Obama as part of her Let's Move! initiative, partnering with the same Robert Unanue to promote one of her causes. Same guy. Same company. Different result.

Yeah, this is more about the cancel culture and woked left not being happy with anyone who expresses an opinion different than their own. If you say something they don't like, >>>YOU MUST BE STOPPED<<<

Onkel Neal

07-18-20, 07:35 AM

It's disturbing the election will hinge around black beans now. Personally I prefer all of my beans having been democratically elected to enter my can and vetted as politically correct beans that are not GMO and were killed humanely without using child labor. :arrgh!:

Lol, awww yeah, POTY (post of the year) material there, my friend. ;) And they better be black beans that are home grown and native to Amurican soil.

https://i.imgur.com/j7Uo3lP.jpg

Ok, wait, I am offended by the word "N...." on that can. I insist you change the word for "black" in the spanish language.

Bilge_Rat

07-18-20, 08:16 AM

Its about what the Trumps did to answer his favour. Its about the ridiculing of the office of POTUS.

You don't understand what is going on in the USA these days.

Absolutely nothing wrong with what POTUS did. Leftys tried to start some stupid boycott based on a ridiculous reason. Everyone who suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome piled on, but as far as I can see the boycott is having no effect on sales.

The only ones who think the boycott is working are Hollywood celebrities and Media elites, but none of them would ever buy Goya products in their everyday lives.

What you don't get is that Trump is rubbing it in to the Rabid anti-Trumpers (tm) that the boycott is a bust.

August

07-18-20, 08:27 AM

Ok, wait, I am offended by the word "N...." on that can. I insist you change the word for "black" in the spanish language.

Nueces!

Skybird

07-18-20, 08:45 AM

You don't understand what is going on in the USA these days.
No? When you cough, two weeks later over here we get the flu. The many vogues and modes swap from the US to us, only rarely the other way around. I promise you the average Middle European knows more about the US and its politics than the average American knows about European nations. Ameicans, most of them, do not care for the world poutside. But the world outside cannot afford to not care for whats goping on in the US.

Absolutely nothing wrong with what POTUS did.
Favoritism is okay in American politics, okay, understood. Your own ethics watchdog disagrees on that, but okay, they probably all are Latinos. I mean lefties.

Leftys tried to start some stupid boycott based on a ridiculous reason.
And here I thought the driving force behind the boyott were the Latinos.

Everyone who suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome piled on, but as far as I can see the boycott is having no effect on sales.
Certainly almost everyone suffers from Trump, but that it is a derangement syndrome, can be argued.

What you don't get is that Trump is rubbing it in to the Rabid anti-Trumpers (tm) that the boycott is a bust.
No, the only one he is serving here is his die-hard harccore fans.

Anyoiw, most of what you mention, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is not POTUS' job or does not respect the authority and dignity of this position if he poses like a salesman in a TV commercial only to answer the favour of a loyal minion. Like it is not appropriate to suspend the law to reward a loyal liar who was to serve his penalty in prison, or to hinder law investigation, or to call names before runnign cameras and open mikes.

No manner,s no style, and liike every spociopath: no understanding whatever for "right" and "wrong", no code of morals, no empathy, no nothing. Just five capital golen letters: T-R-U-M-P.

Dogdirt has more grace and dignity.

Skybird

07-18-20, 08:56 AM

From FOCUS. I bet this woman is not alone:

Linda Rawles has been a staunch Republican all her life. But now the woman from the US state of Arizona is fighting her president Donald Trump - she is far from alone with this effort. a. By Ines Pohl.

"Careful here with this stone, do you see these holes? There is a rattlesnake here," warns Linda Rawles. It was better to make a lot of noise in order to drive away the fatal animal.

Make a lot of noise. That is Rawle's motto in the remaining months before the presidential election. Make a lot of noise to prevent bad, worse in November.

The 61-year-old lawyer is fighting, like so many Americans in her age group, by all means against a second term of Donald Trump.

She fights against a president she is ashamed of. For his racism, his misogyny, his immigration policy and the ludicrous manner with which he stuns decades-old allies, she says.

But above all, she fights against the man who destroyed her political home.

Linda Rawles is a Republican. Whole blood Republican. The woman, who lives with her husband in Carefree, part of Phoenix, Arizona, has been involved in this party since she was 13.

Has repeatedly campaigned for party friends at local and regional level, and fought for a seat in Congress in 1994. It wasn't enough for a win. There is still a mixture of pride and melancholy in her voice when she bends over the old campaign brochures.

"I still stand for the same values," she says. The United States of America was finally founded for a free market. And for individual responsibility. "In my opinion, the government should leave your wallet and bedroom alone."

But none of this left Donald Trump after four years: "He has turned the party from a party of freedom into a party that pays homage to dictators and destroys the legal foundations." Rawles finds hard words for the president, speaks of a "psychologically disturbed sociopath."

Arizona was a safe bank for the Republicans in the presidential election for decades. Election researchers say that this can change this year. Especially women like Linda Rawles, who live in the well-off suburbs, are crucial for who ultimately wins the fight for the White House.

One factor here: the corona virus. The state of deserts and cacti in the southwestern United States is severely affected by COVID-19. According to official information, more than 2400 people have already died of the virus here. Republican governor Doug Ducey followed Trump's announcement early and eased short-term security measures again.

Now the new infections are exploding, and more and more hospitals are lacking beds to enable adequate treatment. COVID-19 patients are released far too early and infect other people. The morgues are no longer enough to cool the dead before they can be buried in the desert heat.

"Donald Trump has blood on his hands, he ignored the virus because he was politically embarrassed," says Rawles. "He convinced our governor to reopen everything too soon - and now people are dying." Because good economic figures are more important to him than hundreds of thousands or more deaths. It was not possible to separate the pandemic and the economy. "One is closely related to the other," says the lawyer.

Republicans are increasingly dissatisfied with government crisis management, Rawles said. And yet it was almost impossible for many to turn away from Trump openly. "If you were so firmly convinced of something, it is difficult to make this mental change happen," she explains. "It is difficult to say: I was wrong there. It takes a lot of courage."

As proud as she is of the former Trump supporters, who are now openly speaking out against her former candidate, she despises the party leadership, which continues to keep the president in line.

She is convinced that the Republicans will only have one chance to survive as a party and to regain their core values if the entire leadership team is exchanged. Anyone who continues to be a fan of Donald Trump also shares his moral compass, and she no longer has trust in these people.

"I want my party back," says Rawles. In the end, it is about what kind of person you wanted to be: someone who obeyed the law and respected his counterpart, or someone who caged children at the border.

Even though Linda Rawles largely rejects Joe Biden's politics, she will vote for him this fall. He was at least a decent and mentally healthy person. And everything is better than Trump. In the long run, however, she wants her own political home again. A more traditional party that represents its economic ideas and is not as far left as the Democrats are.

But can the Republicans overcome their existential crisis even if Trump loses the November election? Linda Rawles has great doubts. Maybe in the end you have to change the whole party system, she says - or even found a new party.

But all of this is something for the future. Now you have to fight with all your strength. And make a lot of noise. Like the big stone in her front yard.

Hawk66

07-18-20, 09:12 AM

Dowly

07-18-20, 09:19 AM

The call for Goya boycott is not because the CEO dared to say something nice about Trump, it's because the CEO dared to say something nice about Trump after all the remarks Trump has made about Latin America and latinos in the past.

Bilge_Rat

07-18-20, 09:23 AM

And here I thought the driving force behind the boyott were the Latinos.

well again you don't understand how business works in the USA. Goya does not sell to consumers, it sells to large retailers like Costco, Walmart, etc.

Have you seen press releases from Costco, Walmart, et al. saying they are supporting the boycotts and will stop buying Goya products? No, because they also know this is a stupid boycott.

In fact, many Costcos and Walmart around the country are sold out of Goya products or have had to limit how much customers buy.

so much for the boycott.

Anyoiw, most of what you mention, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is not POTUS' job or does not respect the authority and dignity of this position if he poses like a salesman in a TV commercial only to answer the favour of a loyal minion. Like it is not appropriate to suspend the law to reward a loyal liar who was to serve his penalty in prison, or to hinder law investigation, or to call names before runnign cameras and open mikes.

that old trope gets trotted out whenever someone does not like what the President of the opposing party is doing.

Clinton selling sleepovers in the Lincoln Bedroom to major Dem donors was beneath his office.

Trump promoting a company which is under attack for entirely stupid political reasons is exactly what a POTUS should do.

Catfish

07-18-20, 09:57 AM

well again you don't understand how business works in the USA. [...]
Trump promoting a company which is under attack for entirely stupid political reasons is exactly what a POTUS should do.
When it comes to advertising for motorcycles and cars he will need a bigger office.

August

07-18-20, 10:38 AM

I can only shake my hands what's going on regarding politics in the US. Frankly, if you asked me 10 years ago, I never thought that such things can happen.

And frankly - this "Foreigners do not understand the US" nonsense makes it not better:

I would ask those die-hard trump-lovers: Do you know your country at all ? What did you see from your country ? Your rich, local neighborhood ?
Have you even been in poverty districts for instance in Philadelphia ? (by the way I was there as a student). Did you spoke with those people about their issues , their needs, what are preventing them to climb up the ladder? Do you care about them at all ? Do you know the consequence if you have not a health insurance if you get sick and have no money ? Have you read the first autobiography from Colin Powell ? (or does he belong also to the "liberals" to be hated or who destroys the constitution or the traditional American way of living)?

Or do you just follow an ideology for its own sake?

Well how arrogant of you, but to answer your rude questions:

* Yes, I know my own country far better than you.

* I've lived in far worse neighborhoods than your little mind could even imagine.

* Chad Brown Housing Project? Silver Lake section in Providence? Rich? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

* Yes I've been to Philadelphia, NYC, Chicago, LA, SF, Gary Indiana, and a dozen more urban dumps that you have never even heard of.

* I not only spoke with them I lived in their neighborhoods for 20 years, not a 2 second interview of some poor people for some stupid school project like you probably did before running back to the safety of your campus with it's own security.

* Yes I do. I went many years without health care insurance and had to pay for treatment out of pocket.

* Yeah I read it when it came out back in the 1990's. I've read his other 2 books too. How about you? Personally I find him to be more the politician than soldier. Nothing more than a tool of the Military Industrial Complex.

* I follow the ideology that I believe is best for my country. I am not a slave to it. Nobody from my side is getting people fired from their jobs because they don't toe liberal party lines.

Just as a side notice: If you continue this way you (and the rest of the free world) will lose the next cold war with China.If we put the Deep State back in power they will quickly go back to turning our economy and industry over to the Chinese and we'll loose the cold war that we are currently fighting with China let alone the next one.

Catfish

07-18-20, 10:49 AM

Did you ever get the idea that your "deep state" might be one of those loony toxic conspiracy theories?

Hawk66

07-18-20, 11:13 AM

@August
I do not know what about these (rhetorical questions) is arrogant. Did I claim that for all Trump voters this is true ? I referred to die-hard fanboys who defend him against all critics, regardless if they are justified or not. If I see the issues in your country from a neutral standpoint, how one cannot ask those questions ?

And isn't true that if some "foreigner" discusses things in your country, it is not seldom that you get "You do not understand it" and then game over ? If someone tries to criticize things in my country (e.g. defense spending to name one) I do not say "You do not understand my country" but I try to make him understand why the people think in a specific way about the topic. But that does not make the statements of the "foreigner" by definition that he is a foreigner worthless or wrong.

And if this all true what you are writing here (which I assume), then you think also the recipes of Trump or to be more abstract, the general political/ideological mindset behind it, will solve those issues ?

So maybe I should rephrase my question a bit: Do you think that the "traditional American way of living" as an "ideology" has such an importance that it overrules all possible changes to the system (prison system, urban "poverty" districts, health care (basic) for everyone -- to mention only a few), which would limit some "freedom" - regardless how "artificial" this freedom is in terms in your daily life ?

August

07-18-20, 12:46 PM

Did you ever get the idea that your "deep state" might be one of those loony toxic conspiracy theories?

Sure. Did you ever get the idea that there might actually be something to it?

mapuc

07-18-20, 02:46 PM

The question is:

Is there a dictator-gene in a genuine politician ?

Markus

August

07-18-20, 02:58 PM

The question is:

Is there a dictator-gene in a genuine politician ?

Markus

Genuine as in Professional politician? Yeah I would have to say that people who make their living as politicians and administrators have it more often than not.

Skybird

07-18-20, 03:02 PM

The question is:

Is there a dictator-gene in a genuine politician ?

Markus
No.

But we have very strong indices for genetic foundings of psychopathy and sociopathy. Both can also be influenced by social and culturla environment and life experiences. Its one of these "multi-factorial theories". Its genes PLUDS environment.

Most likely the same with intelligence, for that matter. Just mentioning it.

We know hiowveer that certain jobs and psoitions attract people with very severe psychpathic traits. Some of thes ejobs in the economy and pltlics even rewar4d sociopathic characteristics. thats why in these fields and areas we find sociopaths/psyhcopaths beign - sometimes massively - overrepresented, compared to mean averages in the population.

There are no traits in humans imaginable that do not have a genetic basis. Genes must not always determine prefixed outcomes, but sure as hell they determine the upper and lower limits of a range within which a given trait or quality can unfold, depending on its living environment.

We humans are nothing without a functioning brain, and a body. Take the material basis of our existence away, and nothing remains of us. Nothing. We simply do not exist without a material correlate that manifests our existence. And the body we so mercilessly depend on - is determined by genes.

Thats why I find this whole 60+ genders circus so ridiculous. Real in that only can be what can be demonstrated to have a correlate in genetic codification.

MaDef

07-18-20, 06:44 PM

Genuine as in Professional politician? Yeah I would have to say that people who make their living as politicians and administrators have it more often than not.The part I bolded is the exact reason Trump was voted into office, people are fed up with politicians that have never held an actual job for any length of time.

Skybird

07-18-20, 07:18 PM

No comment needed. The absurdity speaks for itself.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/coronavirus-means-doctors-nurses-pas-are-essential-workers-until-they-ncna1234289

Onkel Neal

07-18-20, 11:36 PM

Tough times

Hawk66

07-19-20, 01:06 AM

First I apologize if my former thread was viewed as too rude. Was not my intention - It intended to be rhetorical questions but I guess it could be interpreted differently now looking at it in retrospect.

@Neal,
I agree that the people living there are part of the problem. But the question is why are the people living in those areas are like they are ? What I mean by this is that as a human you are being shaped by your environment (parents, neighborhood, friends and so forth). I guess I tell nothing new but this is often forgotten. That is also the reason why I referred to Colin Powell first's book. He clearly describes his personal battle to break out of this environment (and of crs the "issue" that he is a black in the 50s/60s). So, yes there is a chance to break out but like he describes it in his book via his personal story, only the strongest, smartest and most dedicated people achieve that. Frankly, 80-90% do not such have those skills.

By the way - I have experienced similar things but much more soften here in my local town where I did a one-year civil service in an organization for long time unemployed people. Most of them have just given up (also young people), they see no chance for them anymore (they think that they cannot compete with rest of the society in terms of jobs) and try to have "comfort" by drinking or doing other bad things.

The agenda of Trump to reindustrialize the country with industries that former worked, will fail. Such an approach has never worked -on a broader scope longterm. It contradicts also completely the free market and the (proven) theories of Adam Smith. The goal to get to the root of the problem is described in the MIT book "The second machine age" : You have to educate the people so that they get new skills (and by this I do not mean necessarily college). You have to get rid of those poverty districts by active development of those people. You have to take money in the hand and give them a fair chance. The money, which you invest wisely (no socialist approach) will be paid back hundred times...

Skybird

07-19-20, 05:30 AM

Tough times
The times are like they are. It a rotten system. Hopelessly overpriced, but not better performing for all that additional money, than others.

This should have been part of Obama'S health insurrance reform. He only gave people th emoney to get access, but he did nothing do adress the serious systemic failures in the costs structure. That way he fed the monster.

Skybird

07-19-20, 11:01 AM

Please - Nooo...!

Political scientist Helmut Norpoth is one of the experts who was not stunned in front of the TV on November 8, 2016. The day Donald Trump prevailed against Hillary Clinton in the presidential election. At that time he predicted the result - based on a model calculation that he developed himself.

The German-born scientist had calculated a chance of victory for Trump of 67 to 88 percent. And now, a few months before the US elections, Norpoth makes a forecast that should be a warning to many observers: Trump is likely to remain in office with a 91 percent chance, the expert believes.

He told n-tv: “It's a déjà vu experience. In the meantime, there are not even individual surveys in which Trump leads. Not even with Fox News, although the station is close to Trump. The big difference to 2016 is the corona pandemic, which is why we are not experiencing normal politics. The election campaign itself is under a lockdown. ”Because of the special circumstances this year, the polls“ certainly had no predictive value. ”

Norpoth's model is based less on polls than on assumptions about voter behavior. For example, he assumes a kind of natural pendulum movement and analyzes the results of the primaries particularly closely. So far, it has been possible to make predictions that almost always hit the mark. Norpoth applied it retrospectively to all elections since 1912 - and was correct in 25 out of 27 elections.
However, I wonder if this man's model really can reflect the impact the Corona pandemic has. I mean I said myself just moths ago Trump most likely will win once again due to the Democrats morbid personnell setup, but then came Corona and the high death toll and the Trumpian Breathe And Let Die Show which made me changing my assessment: I simply cannot think so low of a people to assume that all this utmost failure and displayed cynism does not have an effect for the better, and so I think since this summer that Trump is doomed if Biden does not mess it up for him. I think if the model has not been adopted to deep-striking events like this pandemic, it necessarily must currently sit beside the rails it was intended to usually roll on. And so I hope the man is wrong for his third in then 28 times.

From FOCUS magazine, Germany.

August

07-19-20, 12:15 PM

The part I bolded is the exact reason Trump was voted into office, people are fed up with politicians that have never held an actual job for any length of time.

Exactly. Politics is supposed to be a job that somebody gets into temporarily before going back to private life, not a lifetime career choice. One of our senators, Markey, has been in congress since 1976, mostly as a congressman. He's lived in the Washington suburbs for longer than he ever lived in Massachusetts, let alone the 7th Congressional district.

Catfish

07-20-20, 02:50 AM

Thanks to Trump, politics are now everywhere in the US.

"Thanks to social media, and to the nature of our new president and his administration, politics is suddenly with us always, in every aspect of our lives, including wherever we may look for diversion."

"Is no part of American life safe from politics in the Age of Trump?"

Old but hits the nail: The Politicization of Everything (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/the-politicization-of-everything-214714)

Skybird

07-20-20, 04:41 AM

Its just a logical extension of a development earlier: that noisy lobby groups, special interest groups, ideological culture improvers, NGOs of any kind, and such movements have penetrated into fields and areas of society that usually had been outside their core interests, but then got occupied in order to push their agenda down everybody'S throat. A prominent exmaple is how environmental groups have allowed to get married with anti-capitalism and far left leaning, socialist, communist groups, or the AfD allowed to get married with Neonazism. And the rainbow flag of gay and lesbian today is to be seen just on every demonstration, no matter for what or against what. Any why a red flag with hammer and sichel had to swung at a church congress now is completely beyond me.

Everybody josn and demistrates for everything at any time duzrinbg any other kind of event, to parasite from the media attention the original course currently is getting.

Politics in the US had been extremely polarized already before Trump, he is just the latest and most extreme symptom of it. He feeds back on it, yes, and he is the worst so far, yes - but the inventor, the origin and cause of it he is not.

Action has reaction and what force you inflict, inevitably returns, the pendulum swings both directions, and the higher the amplitude on the one side, the more extreme the amplitude on the other side.

Myself, I do not join with the one or the other side, and I will never accept a pragmatic alliance wiht the one side just to confront the other. I dispise them all, I am unbiased in my contempt for them all, and thus distribute it equally and just amongst them all and discriminate nobody. ;)

Onkel Neal

07-20-20, 06:57 AM

Catfish

07-20-20, 07:12 AM

I have a two-branched view on that.
I understand that some will (ab)use help in form of money or anything, without giving something back.

I also know that a general equal basic support for all or all in need serving the basic needs will probably not lead to much abuse. As some studies have shown, it creates quite the opposite, if accidentally:

When several people live together as neighbours, they tend to compare what they have, being jealous or proud, or some dismissing any difference. Since they are human, they will soon not like to be the same or worse than their neighbour, so they will start to advance and get better - this is as fundamentally human as it is 'capitalistic'. It works quite well in scandinavian countries, to an extent that there is much less wellfare to be paid than in other countries, although it is basically free.

Whatever, the initial basis for a citizen instead of an abuser is proper education. And that is something a country has to invest, if it wants reasonable and supporting citizens. People at least have to have a chance.
You only do not need education if you are a natural born millionaire :D

Skybird

07-20-20, 08:44 AM

I just have finished "The Fountainhead" two days ago. Ellsworth Toohey. Catherine. Neal is right.

Hawk66

07-20-20, 10:05 AM

Yes, there will be abuse (which you cannot prevent completely) and you have to limit it.

I do not claim that creating such a system will be an easy task but on the other hand I do not think that it will be better just to continue with the current approach also.

This mentioned MIT book give some good advices but it also tells clearly there is no golden bullet and you have to try out things and see what works and what not.

August

07-20-20, 03:39 PM

Thanks to Trump, politics are now everywhere in the US.

Thanks to Trump? Where have you been for the last 20 years?

What's next, you going to blame the past half century of government over reach and mismanagement on Trump as well?

Skybird

07-20-20, 04:06 PM

August

07-20-20, 04:20 PM

The only people who don't accept election results are the Democrats.

Skybird

07-20-20, 04:32 PM

"I heard we have one of the lowest, maybe the lowest, mortality rate anywhere in the world." (...) "Do you have the numbers please? I heard we had the best mortality rate."

The wellinformed, ingenius man can be helped. Here are the numbers, deaths per 100k.

1. Belgium 86
2. UK 68
3. Spain 61
4. Italy 58
5. Sweden 55
6. France 45
7. Chile 45
8. USA 43
9. Peru 41
10. Brazil 38

Bigger is better. Isn't it? 4 million confirmed cases, 143 thousand deaths, that makes the US top number one in the world. Congratulations, Donny, thats a marvellous achievement! :salute: And it shows no signs of stopping, but still accelerates!

Some fake news, so that we all can have a good laugh:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

It pays off to have a Comical Ali in the WH. Nobody tells better jokes.

mapuc

07-20-20, 05:13 PM

Skybirds post #9792

Where he wrote:
Once again Trump has refused to confirm he would accept voting results in case of loosing.

I heard the same in the news today.

Yes he has the right to do so, but if he loose, he have to leave the White House latest Jan. 19 2021.

Here my imagination ran away with me.

I'm picturing Mr. Trump chain himself to the chair in the Oval office, refusing to accept the result and demand a recount

His supporters will start some demonstration, maybe some will start a riot they will most likely also accuse the system for fraud.

Of course this will NOT happen...if Trump loose, there will be a new President sitting in the Oval office after Jan. 20 2021.

Markus

u crank

07-20-20, 05:20 PM

Once again Trump has refused to confirm he would accept voting results in case of loosing.

An American political analyst wrote further in a German newspaper that the risk is he may feel encouraged to indeed trying to occupy the WH because the US constitution and laws do not know a procedure for how to deal with a president refusign to accept defeat in election - they instead take it for granted that a defeated office holder would naturally accept defeat and leave all by himself.

Maybe we will see him getting led out by military escort. And maybe, if he escalates it to this, it could be arranged that something happens to him. On the slippery stairs, for example. He has already demonstrated that he has problems with stairs...

Gangster games by a very sick person with a serious personality disorder. That such derranged people can make it to such ranks, is deeply frightening. Even more worrying when considering that the place where this possib le coup could happen this time is a nation that owns one of the two biggest nuclear weapons arsenals in the world. Terrifying.

Nonsense.

There is not the slightest chance it would happen. When the President elect is sworn into office on Jan. 20 2021 all power of the Executive Branch is transfered to the new President. Explain to me how Trump would still be president. Staying in the White House would not make him President. Name a single member of the current Administration who would risk going along with something that stupid.

It is a nonsensical conspiricy theory and it won't happen. Guaranteed.

Skybird

07-20-20, 05:31 PM

Nonsense.

There is not the slightest chance it would happen. When the President elect is sworn into office on Jan. 20 2021 all power of the Executive Branch is transfered to the new President. Explain to me how Trump would still be president. Staying in the White House would not make him President. Name a single member of the current Administration who would risk going along with something that stupid.

It is a nonsensical conspiricy theory and it won't happen. Guaranteed.
Dont tell me. Tell him. It is him refusing to say clear he would obey. His words, not mine. HIS words. And not the first time.

He is a narcissistic sociopath (heck, I said that already three years ago, it did not take a book by his niece to tell me that...) who has hopelessly manouvered himself into a corner, all his life long, and always lying, and then learning that more lying lets him getting away with it and then to lie more.

In principle, he is a very sad, pitiful, failed being, from A to Z. A Gollum.

mapuc

07-20-20, 05:34 PM

^^ You are not the only one who have written these things about this Executive Branch is transferred to the new President

I recall many journalist saying throughout the years..Mr. Trump isn't what we would call a ordinary politician, far from it.
We can therefore not say how he will react to a defeat in the Presidential election
Well I can't that's because I'm not an educated psychoanalyst

I'm however convinced:
He will accept the defeat and leave the White House, long before Jan. 20 2021.

Markus

u crank

07-20-20, 05:35 PM

Dont tell me. Tell him. It is him refusing to say clear he would obey. His words, not mine. HIS words. And not the first time.

If you don't know by now that Trump trolls people like you here's a heads up. He trolls people like you.

August

07-20-20, 05:40 PM

If you don't know by now that Trump trolls people like you here's a heads up. He trolls people like you.

:har:

August

07-20-20, 06:27 PM

https://i.imgur.com/Fp2toE7.jpg

Cybermat47

07-20-20, 11:34 PM

If you don't know by now that Trump trolls people like you here's a heads up. He trolls people like you.

So you’re saying that the USA has a troll for a president?

Buddahaid

07-21-20, 12:04 AM

Yes. We even made a doll to prove it.

Skybird

07-21-20, 12:17 AM

If you don't know by now that Trump trolls people like you here's a heads up. He trolls people like you.
He is not just a troll, but a sociopath of psychiatric relevance. And such people tick in their own tact and can become very strange if meeting reality of a not wanted kind. Trump automatically lies then. So if his reflex is to say that he has lost the vote is a lie - then there we are. Then what?

Buddahaid

07-21-20, 12:25 AM

Simple. We wait, vote, wait and see. What else?

Skybird

07-21-20, 01:07 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53477121

There is some ticking and clicking going on in American heads that I fear I just will never understand.

The wearing of masks has become a catalyst for political conflict, an arena where scientific evidence is often viewed through a partisan lens. Most Democrats support the wearing of masks, according to a poll conducted by researchers at the Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/06/25/republicans-democrats-move-even-further-apart-in-coronavirus-concerns/). [...] as Timothy Akers, a public-health professor at Morgan State University, a historically black college in Baltimore, says: "We're seeing politics and science literally crashing."

In the past, people wore for example buttons to signal what party they support. Today it is masks or no masks - but even if expressing the one party association kills people in scores and scores and pushes many more into lasting health issues...?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRDgKmxkK9jauL3Jk5EaPdok7iF2EM dy7IGZg&usqp=CAU

Cybermat47

07-21-20, 01:29 AM

Simple. We wait, vote, wait and see. What else?

We could endlessly argue on the internet with no chance of changing anyone’s mind?

Catfish

07-21-20, 01:33 AM

We could endlessly argue on the internet with no chance of changing anyone’s mind?
Now this made me laugh :salute:

em2nought

07-21-20, 02:02 AM

The first problem with Trump not leaving is that the White House is in enemy held territory, at least for now. :D

Catfish

07-21-20, 02:34 AM

Partisanship and politics will not solve real problems. What has partisanship to do with science, or wearing a mask?
There is a storm of incivility, anti-intellectualism and tribalism, especially when it comes to "social" media. They politicise everything.

Onkel Neal

07-21-20, 10:38 AM

Diversity image

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Bilge_Rat

07-21-20, 01:17 PM

We could endlessly argue on the internet with no chance of changing anyone’s mind?

Sounds like a typical day on this forum...

Hawk66

07-21-20, 02:21 PM

It is not only on the net the case...no difference in the non-virtual life.

That is the difference between science and politics. Science listen, learns and adapts. In politics...

mapuc

07-21-20, 04:25 PM

Mostly there's a link to the English version of a Danish or Swedish article, not in this case, I use google translate instead.
Start article:
"
Experts in shock: Can he? - who's throwing Trump out?

Donald Trump has no immediate plans to leave the White House - whether he wins or loses on November 3.

That's how many heard the message in the president's new shocking interview with Fox News.
And now the American sages are asking each other:
"Can he do that? "
“Donald Trump has already done things that no one else thought possible. That is why we should be prepared for anything. '

This is what former Republican leader Michael Steele says in a brand new interview with the television channel MSNBC.
In an endless series of tweets, Donald Trump has in recent days already branded the upcoming presidential election as 'the most corrupt ever'.
All US polls show a marked lead to the Democratic candidate, Joe Biden.

These investigations write off Trump as 'fake news'. But at the same time, the 74-year-old leader longs for the many postal votes that, as a result of the corona crisis, will dominate the presidential election.

‘Letter votes are unbelievable. Letter votes automatically lead to election fraud. The result may well be invalid. "
This is part of the president's twitter argumentation to question the election result.

One thing both Democrats, Republicans and the president himself can agree on is that the upcoming presidential election will be unlike any other election in American history.

The article is long, I have therefore only translated a part of it.

Here it is this Danish article-maybe you can use google translate to translate it.
https://www.bt.dk/udland/eksperter-i-chok-kan-han-det-hvem-smider-trump-ud

I made a search "Trump refuse to leave the White house" and found this article:

There is a process. It has nothing to do with if the certain occupant of the White House doesn't feel like moving and has to be fumigated out of there because the presidency is the presidency," House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi said in an interview with MSNBC.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/pelosi-says-trump-will-be-fumigated-out-if-he-refuses-to-leave-after-white-house-loss-20200721-p55dvh.html

Personally I'm 100 % convinced he will accept the outcome of the people's voting and leave, if he loose.

My real imagination can't imagine what would happen if he truly refuse to leave.

Markus

skidman

07-21-20, 06:11 PM

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_30/3398703/200721-portland-protest-phones-ew-239p_4f0b7e81e56cb307dff7ceb0eb5592c9.fit-2000w.jpg

August

07-21-20, 07:12 PM

All I see here are white people. I'm guessing they're just Antifa commies that don't want the Feds to interfere with their rioting and vandalism activities. Change my mind.

https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_30/3398703/200721-portland-protest-phones-ew-239p_4f0b7e81e56cb307dff7ceb0eb5592c9.fit-2000w.jpg

Buddahaid

07-21-20, 07:18 PM

Nobody has ever changed your mind. 😯

August

07-21-20, 08:16 PM

Nobody has ever changed your mind. 😯

Sure they have, many times. But maybe they were just more persuasive...

Buddahaid

07-21-20, 08:23 PM

:salute:

They didn't happen to wear skirts did they?

August

07-21-20, 09:02 PM

:salute:

They didn't happen to wear skirts did they?

Some of them. :)

nikimcbee

07-21-20, 11:44 PM

All I see here are white people. I'm guessing they're just Antifa commies that don't want the Feds to interfere with their rioting and vandalism activities. Change my mind.

Ditto. Antifa here will riot for any reason. They voted for it, let them sleep in their bed now.

nikimcbee

07-21-20, 11:45 PM

Nobody has ever changed your mind. 😯

:Kaleun_Wink::har: lol

skidman

07-22-20, 12:51 AM

All I see here are white people. I'm guessing they're just Antifa commies that don't want the Feds to interfere with their rioting and vandalism activities. Change my mind.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edkx686hru31bnd/Commie%20Antifa.png?raw=1

Dowly

07-22-20, 02:17 AM

All I see here are white people. I'm guessing they're just Antifa commies that don't want the Feds to interfere with their rioting and vandalism activities. Change my mind.
The people in front are part of a group of mothers in Portland who decided to come and show their support.

Ooooh, scary!

Catfish

07-22-20, 02:54 AM

Cybermat47

07-22-20, 03:15 AM

All I see here are white people. I'm guessing they're just Antifa commies that don't want the Feds to interfere with their rioting and vandalism activities. Change my mind.

What does wanting less dead black people have to do with communism? If anything this strikes me as more of a right-wing libertarian idea - less government interference, less powerful police etc. (i.e. the opposite of what we see in the PRC and DPRK).

Or maybe the libertarian left and libertarian right have more in common than partisan politicians and the media would like us to think.

Catfish

07-22-20, 05:27 AM

What does wanting less dead black people have to do with communism? [...].
Roughly the same as with masks and science, partisanship is all that counts.
Also desinformation and chaos, the goal is to create lies faster than the truth is able to toe its shoelaces and react.

Dowly

07-22-20, 05:36 AM

Also desinformation and chaos, the goal is to create lies faster than the truth is able to toe its shoelaces and react.Well said. :up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsaO3v4SvwA

u crank

07-22-20, 06:15 AM

"Trump’s paramilitary secret police are tear-gassing sunflower-wielding moms defending BLM protestors in Portland"

Refering to very public officers operating under the auspices of the Department of Homeland Security as “secret” police is a bit of a stretch.

Bilge_Rat

07-22-20, 06:53 AM

"Trump’s paramilitary secret police are tear-gassing sunflower-wielding moms defending BLM protestors in Portland"

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/trumps-paramilitary-secret-police-are-tear-gassing-sunflower-wielding-moms-defending-blm-protestors-in-portland/

" .... the account of how demonstrators in Portland, Oregon, protesting racism and police brutality earlier in July, were tear-gassed, beaten, seized off the street by unidentified, masked federal agents in camouflage and fatigues, hustled into unmarked vans and detained for hours. The agents were reported to work with the US Marshals Special Operations Group and Bortac, the Border Patrol Tactical Unit."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/20/trump-shock-troops-portland-doomed

What's next, bombers?

well if you had actualy done some basic research instead of just posting inflammatory click-bait from left leaning sites, you might actually learn what is really going on in Portland.

for the past 50 days, pretty much every night from midnight to 4 a.m., so called "peaceful" protesters have been trying to break into and burn down the federal Court House building in downtown Portland.

If this was a normal city, the local police would arrest the vandals and prosecute them for vandalism, destruction of property, attempted arson, etc. and put a stop to it, but the local Dem mayor is running for re-election and has ordered the city police to stay out of the area so as not to antagonise the "peaceful" protesters, leaving federal agents to provide protection.

For the most part, federal agents stay inside the building, but the crowd then just gets to work trying to break into the building to loot it or set fire to it with the agents inside. So periodically, the agents come out to disperse the "peaceful" protesters at which point dozens of laser pointers are shot at their eyes to try to blind them amd frozen water bottles and other projectiles are thrown at their head to try to injure them. When one of the agent is isolated, the "peaceful" protesters will attack him. That is why the federal agents wear protective gear.
The reason the agents do not wear name tags is so the "peaceful" protesters cannot identify them and threaten their family.

yes, the federal agents could withdraw from Portland and let the "peaceful" protesters loot and burn down the Federal Court House Building, but that is not an option.

Are you really going to tell me that the German police would handle things differently if it was a German Court House that was under attack by rioters?

But don't take my word for it, everything I laid out can be very easily verified using Google and Twitter. Independent journalists and "peaceful" protesters post dozens of videos everynight of what is really going on.

Catfish

07-22-20, 08:41 AM

I can only look at what the news says, and pardon me but i do not use or believe twitter or Fox for this. Governor Wheeler is not the only one who looks for re-election b.t.w. (https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/07/16/oregon-gov-kate-brown-says-president-trump-is-invading-portland-as-an-election-stunt/)
Are you really going to tell me that the German police would handle things differently if it was a German Court House that was under attack by rioters?
[...]
But don't take my word for it, everything I laid out can be very easily verified using Google and Twitter. Independent journalists and "peaceful" protesters post dozens of videos everynight of what is really going on.
I do not know of any politician, chancellor or president right now who tries to divide our country the way it is currently done in the US, although it may be possibe when the AfD comes to power here.
Under such circumstances the police would of course use water cannons and whatnot, but it sure would not be the army to fire at demonstrants and arrest citizens, or "secret agents" (Trump's words not mine) shoving people into unmarked black vans for interrogation.
Those paramilitary forces or whatever you call them have also arrested lots of peaceful protesters, including some of those moms.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/20/trump-shock-troops-portland-doomed

“What they are doing is sharply escalating the situation"

"Leave my city alone.
That was the message Mayor Ted Wheeler of Portland, Ore., had on Sunday for President Donald Trump in discussing the federal government’s response to ongoing protests and unrest in the city — in particular, the uninvited presence of militarized federal forces deployed by the Department of Homeland Security."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/19/portland-mayor-we-want-you-to-leave-370250

There also was that man who dared to direct a ghetto blaster at the advancing militarized federal forces, was shot with tear gas, and then got a rubber bullet at his head. I will not post links as well, they are all over the 'net.
And yes it obviously was Trump who called camouflaged SWAT teams paramilitary forces, along with US Marshals Special Operations Group and the Border Patrol Tactical Unit 'BORTAK'. To make him look strong, for political reasons, but surely not for de-escalation and getting back to normal.

Trying to polarize and divide the nation with primitive rhetorics, and then pretending to be astonished that the people react how they do, and then use paramilitary forces to "dominate" them is an endless Moebius strip of bullsh!t !

Dowly

07-22-20, 09:31 AM

well if you had actualy done some basic research instead of just posting inflammatory click-bait from left leaning sites, you might actually learn what is really going on in Portland.

for the past 50 days, pretty much every night from midnight to 4 a.m., so called "peaceful" protesters have been trying to break into and burn down the federal Court House building in downtown Portland.
Since you've done the basic research, I'm confident that you can share us, say, 10 examples (nights) of protesters trying to break into and burn down the courthouse. Obviously you have the data to back this up since you state that this has been the case 'pretty much every night' for 50 days now. Surely you're basing that on something and you wouldn't exaggerate things.

Bonus points if you find examples from before Trump ordered the Feds in.

Mr Quatro

07-22-20, 10:09 AM

I'll never forget the words of one black male on a news channel after the first BLM protest. :yep:

"We got to keep this thing going"

skidman

07-22-20, 11:13 AM

Bilge_Rat

07-22-20, 11:59 AM

Since you've done the basic research, I'm confident that you can share us, say, 10 examples (nights) of protesters trying to break into and burn down the courthouse. Obviously you have the data to back this up since you state that this has been the case 'pretty much every night' for 50 days now. Surely you're basing that on something and you wouldn't exaggerate things.

Bonus points if you find examples from before Trump ordered the Feds in.

Is that really the best you can come up with?

You are such an embarassment.

Dowly

07-22-20, 12:15 PM

Is that really the best you can come up with?

You are such an embarassment.
So, that's a no on providing anything to back up your statement and yes on exaggerating things.

Keep grasping. :03:

Bilge_Rat

07-22-20, 12:47 PM

Trying to polarize and divide the nation with primitive rhetorics, and then pretending to be astonished that the people react how they do, and then use paramilitary forces to "dominate" them is an endless Moebius strip of bullsh!t !

which just sounds to me like a lame excuse to justify rioting.

Oregon is one of the most affluent, liberal U.S. States. The population is 85% Caucasian and 90%+ of the protesters are white. What social conditions in Portland are so oppressive that would justify riots in the street?

Why don't you just admit you have no clue what is going on in Portland?

Bilge_Rat

07-22-20, 12:50 PM

So, that's a no on providing anything to back up your statement and yes on exaggerating things.

Keep grasping. :03:

Nice deflection, but it just shows you have obviously no clue on what is going on in Portland and obviously no interest (or ability) in finding out on your own.

Dowly

07-22-20, 01:04 PM

Nice deflection, but it just shows you have obviously no clue on what is going on in Portland and obviously no interest (or ability) in finding out on your own.
Deflection? Like this:
Is that really the best you can come up with?

You are such an embarassment.
Hey, you're the who made the claim, I simply asked if you could provide some info. After all, you did imply to have done the basic research to reach your conclusion.

u crank

07-22-20, 01:46 PM

What is going on at the Portland Federal court house?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1285830145622765568

Catfish

07-22-20, 02:13 PM

^ Ah, twitter by Any Ngo the right-wing troll.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/

"The source told the Mercury that Ngo and Patriot Prayer have an “understanding” that the group offers him protection when he covers rallies in exchange for favorable coverage."

Rapid rise and fall, for this 'journalist'.

u crank

07-22-20, 02:49 PM

^ Ah, twitter by Any Ngo the right-wing troll.
Rapid rise and fall, for this 'journalist'.

i'm confused. Are you saying that because you think a journalist is a 'right wing troll' that the video he posted is fake? Did he hire those thugs to do what we see in the video?

Did you watch the posted video?

Catfish

07-22-20, 03:23 PM

Yes, i saw the video before, did you read the article?
Thank you so much for your neutral stance and always looking at both sides of the news.

mapuc

07-22-20, 03:37 PM

Dowly

07-22-20, 04:32 PM

I haven't been following the news from USA closely the last couples of days, only news from Denmark and Sweden-and they are mostly interested in Trumps doing and undoings.

Except last night where I saw about 15 minutes CNN and here I saw a text

Chicago Mayor-Don't even think about it Pres. Trump-Don't even think about sending troops to Chicago.

??? What's all this about ??

Markus
Trump sent federal agents to Portland to handle the protests without the mayor of Portland or the governor of Oregon requesting them. Now, Trump is saying he'll send federal agents to other cities with protests as well whether the mayors of those cities want them or not.

u crank

07-22-20, 04:34 PM

Yes, i saw the video before, did you read the article?
Thank you so much for your neutral stance and always looking at both sides of the news.

Ok this is getting silly. I could care less about Andy Ngo or the Rolling Stone article about him. That is not what this is about. It is about the video and the behavior of the people in it. Let's ask some simple questions.

Do you condemn the actions of the 'peaceful protesters' in the video?

Do you think that a democratic state can survive if this kind of violent protest is tolerated?

Do you think that those who can do something about it, Mayor Ted Wheeler, but don't are derelict in their duty?

mapuc

07-22-20, 05:06 PM

Trump sent federal agents to Portland to handle the protests without the mayor of Portland or the governor of Oregon requesting them. Now, Trump is saying he'll send federal agents to other cities with protests as well whether the mayors of those cities want them or not.

Thank you :salute:

A little wonder- CNN and others American news media, are criticizing Trump for his acting in this ongoing crisis in USA.

Now:
What would Obama have done-If this have happened under his Presidency ?

What would Joe Biden do if this happens under his Presidency, if he wins the Presidential election in Nov.

Even though my knowledge on American politics isn't that great, I'm pretty sure they would have done almost the same.

Markus

skidman

07-22-20, 05:39 PM

What would Obama have done-If this have happened under his Presidency ?

Nobody knows.

What would Joe Biden do if this happens under his Presidency, if he wins the Presidential election in Nov.

Nobody knows.

Even though my knowledge on American politics isn't that great, I'm pretty sure they would have done almost the same.

I beg to differ, both have shown at least some political instinct and dignity. Trump doesn't know the meaning of dignity, has no political instinct and has just found out being the president is not as funny as he thought it would be. He'd rather be golfing.

MaDef

07-22-20, 05:50 PM

August

07-22-20, 06:31 PM

Trump sent federal agents to Portland to handle the protests...

Not true, sorry Dowly.

August

07-22-20, 06:43 PM

What does wanting less dead black people have to do with communism?

It doesn't and I never said it did, but it's been widely reported that left wing groups have hijacked organizations like BLM, which was even founded by self described marxists.

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.
Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.
“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.
“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.
While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology.
She described to Democracy Now! how she became a trained organizer with the Labor/Community Strategy Center, which she called her “first political home” under the mentorship of Mann, its director, Breitbart reported.
The center, which describes its philosophy as “an urban experiment,” uses grassroots organization to “focus on Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, pro-communist resistance to the US empire,” according to the outlet.
It also expresses its appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, “especially Black communists,” as well as its support for “the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s,” Breitbart reported.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Cybermat47

07-22-20, 07:38 PM

It doesn't and I never said it did, but it's been widely reported that left wing groups have hijacked organizations like BLM,

Well, that is true. Still, if you’d ever met an American communist, you’d know that they’re hardly motivated enough to be a threat, all they do is whine about liberals and how Bernie Sanders is too much of a capitalist on reddit.

I would say that corrupt cops are a lot more of a threat seeing as they’ve actually killed people, while American commies usually get over themselves when they turn 25.

Buddahaid

07-22-20, 08:29 PM

....I would say that corrupt cops are a lot more of a threat seeing as they’ve actually killed people, while American commies usually get over themselves when they turn 25.

I agree that people get over themselves when they mature and need to feed themselves. Corrupt cops? I see more instances of people resisting and fighting cops to the point it escalates into deadly force than corrupt cops causing trouble in the first place just to kill someone.

Cybermat47

07-22-20, 08:43 PM

Corrupt cops? I see more instances of people resisting and fighting cops to the point it escalates into deadly force than corrupt cops causing trouble in the first place just to kill someone.

Well, with cases like George Floyd, abusing hospital staff (https://nypost.com/2017/10/10/cop-who-forcibly-arrested-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-is-fired/), and arresting my brother firefighters for doing their jobs (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2553107/The-moment-police-officer-handcuffs-firefighter-trying-rescue-victims-rollover-crash-busy-highway.html), I’d say that police abuse of power is a very real issue.

Now, is this heavy-handed policing a result of resistance, or is the resistance a result of the heavy-handedness? Or is it a vicious cycle?

August

07-22-20, 08:47 PM

Well, that is true. Still, if you’d ever met an American communist, you’d know that they’re hardly motivated enough to be a threat, all they do is whine about liberals and how Bernie Sanders is too much of a capitalist on reddit.

I would say that corrupt cops are a lot more of a threat seeing as they’ve actually killed people, while American commies usually get over themselves when they turn 25.

So in other words the American communists are like Junior Varsity of Marxists? That's what they said about isis you know and look what happened. :)

Seriously the American people have become very sharply divided in the past 20 years and I believe that it's getting closer and closer to coming to a head which which if it pops will not be pretty and we as a nation may not survive it.

What I would like to see before it gets there is a way to identify and thwart foreign meddlers. People talk a lot about Russian interference in the last election but their real efforts (and those of China) are not to support one American candidate over another but rather to egg on both sides past the ability to unite on just about any subject.

Our public discourse, increasingly online, has a constant background noise bringing us down. A low grumble of hate and discontent that is being directed at and against both political sides and maybe in other areas as well. Like the disembodied voice on the edge of a crowd yelling Hit him! or the scandalous bit of gossip that suddenly everyone has heard but nobody can really say where the story came from, it negatively affects the mood and tone of the discussion and the end result is that both sides hate each other and become unwilling to compromise or work together, indeed actively work to destroy the other side completely. This cannot continue for very much longer.

Buddahaid

07-22-20, 08:57 PM

Sure, I didn't say it doesn't happen and that there are no corrupt police officers, or just plain misguided police officers. I'm saying that for the most part, they are people who want to make a difference in a high risk low paying job who get S**t on everyday for not being perfect by people who are anything but perfect angels of righteousness.

Let me ask you, have you ever made a mistake doing your job? Are you perfect? Are you willing to put your ass on the line everyday you work?

Cybermat47

07-22-20, 09:38 PM

I'm saying that for the most part, they are people who want to make a difference in a high risk low paying job who get S**t on everyday for not being perfect by people who are anything but perfect angels of righteousness.

I never said anything to the contrary. I’m talking about the corrupt ones, not the good ones that I’ve interacted and worked with.

Let me ask you, have you ever made a mistake doing your job?

Yes.

Are you perfect?

No.

Are you willing to put your ass on the line everyday you work?

You do know what firefighting involves, right? Three of us died last fire season. Three American servicemen died helping us. My crew nearly had an overrun. Many will suffer with mental scars for the rest of their lives. Even more had to sacrifice time with loved ones and time at work to spend 12 hours breathing in smoke.

Buddahaid

07-22-20, 09:45 PM

'nuff said. :Kaleun_Salute:

Catfish

07-23-20, 02:08 AM

That is incorrect, Trump sent Federal law enforcement agents to portland to provide security at federal buildings as the Portland police will not.
So there is a difference between federal agents and federal enforcement agents? Trump does not seem to make a difference.

Also: "The crackdown in the liberal bastion of Portland drew widespread criticism and legal challenges as videos surfaced of camouflage-clad officers without clear identification badges using force and unmarked vehicles to arrest protesters without explanation."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-agents-idUSKCN24M2RL

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-crime/trump-announces-surge-of-federal-agents-into-chicago-albuquerque-to-combat-crime-idUSKCN24N2U4

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN24K0PA

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hints-send-secret-police-to-other-cities-after-portland-2020-7?r=DE&IR=T

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-portland/u-s-swoops-down-on-portland-protesters-after-trump-order-to-protect-monuments-idUSKCN24I2W5

Hawk66

07-23-20, 02:17 AM

So in other words the American communists are like Junior Varsity of Marxists? That's what they said about isis you know and look what happened. :)

Seriously the American people have become very sharply divided in the past 20 years and I believe that it's getting closer and closer to coming to a head which which if it pops will not be pretty and we as a nation may not survive it.

What I would like to see before it gets there is a way to identify and thwart foreign meddlers. People talk a lot about Russian interference in the last election but their real efforts (and those of China) are not to support one American candidate over another but rather to egg on both sides past the ability to unite on just about any subject.

Our public discourse, increasingly online, has a constant background noise bringing us down. A low grumble of hate and discontent that is being directed at and against both political sides and maybe in other areas as well. Like the disembodied voice on the edge of a crowd yelling Hit him! or the scandalous bit of gossip that suddenly everyone has heard but nobody can really say where the story came from, it negatively affects the mood and tone of the discussion and the end result is that both sides hate each other and become unwilling to compromise or work together, indeed actively work to destroy the other side completely. This cannot continue for very much longer.

BTW, related to this ("seriously divided"): It would help to recognize that the inequality in the US and the direct/indirect consequences of this is a major issue concerning being divided. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
The US is the only "western" country with a troubling inequality status.
The liberals also have their issues - but it would help if the "conservatives" will recognize in future that putting the Gini index more to greener levels, has noting to do with communism or socialism.

Catfish

07-23-20, 02:32 AM

[...] Seriously the American people have become very sharply divided in the past 20 years and I believe that it's getting closer and closer to coming to a head which which if it pops will not be pretty and we as a nation may not survive it.

What I would like to see before it gets there is a way to identify and thwart foreign meddlers. People talk a lot about Russian interference in the last election but their real efforts (and those of China) are not to support one American candidate over another but rather to egg on both sides past the ability to unite on just about any subject.

Our public discourse, increasingly online, has a constant background noise bringing us down. A low grumble of hate and discontent that is being directed at and against both political sides and maybe in other areas as well. Like the disembodied voice on the edge of a crowd yelling Hit him! or the scandalous bit of gossip that suddenly everyone has heard but nobody can really say where the story came from, it negatively affects the mood and tone of the discussion and the end result is that both sides hate each other and become unwilling to compromise or work together, indeed actively work to destroy the other side completely. This cannot continue for very much longer.
QFT. This was quite a good post i think. I agree that no nation can afford to go on like that, also the foreign meddling for desinformation and more diversion is a very real threat, though i would not only blame foreign influence. Inequality, your Potus' 'law and order' methods, upcoming elections and his very special kind of self-portrayal is so absolutely .. ah forget it.

And i is not my intention to always blame the US for all BS happening,
OT here but e.g. Germany continues to be the country with the highest rate of fatal and non-fatal right-wing terrorist attacks. I also wonder if we can go on like that 'just so'.
https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/2018/09/19/german-right-wing-terrorism/
https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/02/27/germany-is-belatedly-waking-up-to-the-threat-of-far-right-terrorism

Catfish

07-23-20, 03:43 AM

[...]. It is about the video and the behavior of the people in it. Let's ask some simple questions.
Do you condemn the actions of the 'peaceful protesters' in the video?
In the video? Yes. What about the arrest of the peaceful protesters?

Do you think that a democratic state can survive if this kind of violent protest is tolerated?Yes. Protests and demonstrations are happening in free countries, peaceful/civil and sometimes violent. Do you think that Trump is somehow blind on the right eye of the violent spectrum from "Proud boys" to "Ku klux clan" and their actions? There is a difference between violent protests and terrorism, although Trump prefers to lump it all together and blame it all on the big bad wolf ANTIFA!
"Trump’s announcement on antifa “came as a surprise,” one European security official said. Short for anti-fascist, antifa is more of a loosely defined movement, unlike many far-right groups, which “have not only argued for violent acts against Jews, African Americans and others, but who have acted upon it,” the official said".
From theWashington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/as-trump-vows-crackdown-on-antifa-growth-of-right-wing-extremism-frustrates-europeans/2020/06/05/7006eb40-9b94-11ea-ad09-8da7ec214672_story.html), but quote is from a frustrated european agency.
This was new to me b.t.w.: https://globalnews.ca/news/7082420/right-wing-extremism-canada-study/
Do you think that those who can do something about it, Mayor Ted Wheeler, but don't are derelict in their duty?Well i admit i do not live there, so i have to rely on information from the media. I condemn violence, but they show more violence vids from incidents than peaceful protesters that have obviously been demonstrating for 50 days, because of sensationalism.

Could it be that the law and order "policy" has something to do with upcoming elections, diversion from a certain virus and its handling, to having it "all under control" and pretending to be the law-and-order abiding man-of-the-street citizen (which Trump is not).

Instead of de-escalation and bringing the situation back to normal with other means than fire and suppression. The mayors said they have it under control, so let them do their thing. They will call for help if they think it is necessary.

Skybird

07-23-20, 05:13 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/major-league-baseball-back-while-coronavirus-rages-money-winning-over-ncna1234600

Tja. Greed over reason.

u crank

07-23-20, 05:19 AM

What about the arrest of the peaceful protesters?

That's a relative term. Is a young white woman calling a black police officer a racist peaceful? I guess so but to what end? I'm not sure these people know what they are doing.

Yes. Protests and demonstrations are happening in free countries, peaceful/civil and sometimes violent.

I disagree. And again to what end? Can you explain exactly what these protesters, both violent and non violent want? The cities of Portland, Minneapolis and dozens of other cities are completly controled by left wing politicians. And they have been for a long time. Are these protesters trying to bring about a change in leadership in their cities? Of course not. This is a political problem disguised as a social problem.

Could it be that the law and order "policy" has something to do with upcoming elections, diversion from a certain virus and its handling, to having it "all under control" and pretending to be the law-and-order abiding man-of-the-street citizen (which Trump is not).

It probably does but it cuts both ways. This is more about Donald Trump than it is about George Floyd. The violent protesters do not represent a broad political spectrum. In fact it is very narrow and probably doesn't represent the overall population.They know exactly what they are doing. They do not want to stop. They want to keep it going. There is a singular reason why politicians like Ted Wheeler won't do anything to stop the violence and distruction. Fear. Any pushback and the protesters react violently. Almost sounds like fascism.

Instead of de-escalation and bringing the situation back to normal with other means than fire and suppression. The mayors said they have it under control, so let them do their thing. They will call for help if they think it is necessary.

None of that seems to be true. The protests have gone on for almost two months. They don't have it under control. They will never call for help until it is to late.

Again I'll ask the question. What do these people want? What is their end goal? And more importantly how do they expect to accomplish it? I don't know and I suspect that they don't either. But it seems to me that what they really need is a change in political leadership.

Cybermat47

07-23-20, 05:38 AM

So in other words the American communists are like Junior Varsity of Marxists? That's what they said about isis you know and look what happened. :)

Yeah, but I’ve met American communists, and spoken with them. They’re less like Stalin and more like a caricature.

Seriously the American people have become very sharply divided in the past 20 years and I believe that it's getting closer and closer to coming to a head which which if it pops will not be pretty and we as a nation may not survive it.

What I would like to see before it gets there is a way to identify and thwart foreign meddlers. People talk a lot about Russian interference in the last election but their real efforts (and those of China) are not to support one American candidate over another but rather to egg on both sides past the ability to unite on just about any subject.

Our public discourse, increasingly online, has a constant background noise bringing us down. A low grumble of hate and discontent that is being directed at and against both political sides and maybe in other areas as well. Like the disembodied voice on the edge of a crowd yelling Hit him! or the scandalous bit of gossip that suddenly everyone has heard but nobody can really say where the story came from, it negatively affects the mood and tone of the discussion and the end result is that both sides hate each other and become unwilling to compromise or work together, indeed actively work to destroy the other side completely. This cannot continue for very much longer.

Yep, Democrats and Republicans need to put aside their squabbling and remember that their job is to serve the American people, not to “beat the other side”.

Right now though, based on what I’ve seen and heard, Democrats and Republicans hate each other more than North Korea, which is just ridiculous.

When America is at it’s best, like helping us beat the Nazis, it’s an amazing power for good. I hope that it becomes that again one day.

Catfish

07-23-20, 07:38 AM

The cities of Portland, Minneapolis and dozens of other cities are completly controled by left wing politicians.
:roll: do you echo anything that might cross your neighbouring president's mind?
This is a political problem disguised as a social problem.No, it is a social problem and a political one. They want basic rights for everyone, without discrimination, no to police brutality, which extends into daily racism being felt everywhere.
Is this "left", is this "communism"?

You are right that the violent protesters do not represent a broad political spectrum. In Germany there are a lot of not-integrated youngsters including fugitives, who just want to raise hell, scrap and riot. I do not think that all this is politically motivated or that they are controlled by anyone.

(OT Although i could understand in the US some may feel a bit.. uneasy with someone like Trump at the helm. Maybe he is not a racist but he sure made friends with some. He does not have any morals that extend beyond himself. To call Trump a racist, he would have to believe in something bigger than his reelection..)

Arrest all violent protesters, you will be astonished how much others are left who will still be on the streets.
The peaceful protesters (and there are a lot more than the violent ones) obviously protest against racism and related police brutality, they say it. So they want to "keep this going" and not stop until they are heard? It is their right according to the first amendment. So also arrest them?

Most are primarily protesting against the local abuse of power, locally, no "system change". They protest against Wheeler who did not do enough to quench police brutality, and (ex)change certain officers. They say so.

Now this protest is being subdued externally, by the very practice they are protesting against. What a great idea to solve underlying problems.

August

07-23-20, 08:30 AM

Maybe he is not a racist but he sure made friends with some.

One could say that his democratic opposition are the true racists in this country. They have made a career of sowing racial division and hatred. They openly consort with racists like Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton. They promote the idea that the entire race of light skinned people are inherently racist which is racist in itself.

If they regain power in November they will not attempt to unite the nation but will further divide it and they may discover the nations tipping point and tear us apart for good.

August

07-23-20, 08:38 AM

:roll: do you echo anything that might cross your neighbouring president's mind?

You're just dodging his very good point. The local police causing these issues rarely work for Republican mayors. These cities and their local police departments have been 100% controlled by the Democrats in some cases for decades. How does this become Donald Trumps fault? He's a political newcomer who has not even finished his first term yet but I'm supposed to blame him for decades of Democrat mismanagement?

u crank

07-23-20, 08:59 AM

:roll: do you echo anything that might cross your neighbouring president's mind?

Ha ha. Trump is not the first person to point this out. If you think it is untrue .. prove it. Some of these cities have been controlled by Democrats for twenty or thirty years. In the city of Minneapolis where Mr. Floyd was killed by a police officer every single elected politician, the mayor, the city council, the chief of police, their represenative in Congress, the Governor and the two Senators are Democrats or from the left. In a democracy we elect politicians to solve problems and make policy that improves the lives of citizens. What have these people done to justify their reelection over and over again. It beats me, how about you?

We are now being told that there is systemic racism and it is everywhere. I looked under my bed but I didn't see it. Again we need to look at those who have power. This problem didn't start with Trump regardless of what CNN says. In the not so distant past the US had a black Democrat President. Why in the eight years of his administration did the system not change?

No, it is a social problem and a political one. They want basic rights for everyone, without discrimination, no to police brutality, which extends into daily racism being felt everywhere.

In the United States of America everyone has basic rights. It has been like that most of my life. There are no discriminatory laws on the books. Police brutality is an issue that has a political solution. Don't hold your breath that Democrat Mayors and Governors are going to do anything more than paint slogans on the street.

As far as 'daily racism being felt everywhere' one has to be a realist. No law, legislation or slogan can change the human heart or mind. I'm not sure what the answer is but knocking down statues, changing sports teams names and rioting in the street is not going to change a single racist's mind.

MaDef

07-23-20, 09:58 AM

So there is a difference between federal agents and federal enforcement agents? Trump does not seem to make a difference.

Also: "The crackdown in the liberal bastion of Portland drew widespread criticism and legal challenges as videos surfaced of camouflage-clad officers without clear identification badges using force and unmarked vehicles to arrest protesters without explanation."

It's convoluted and nuanced but there is, not all federal agents are armed, and those that are, usually have very limited law enforcement powers. For example, the Department of Agriculture has armed officers, yet their jurisdiction pretty much ends at the borders of national parks and monuments.

The problem here is people assume the President sent these officers into Portland to specifically break up these protests and that is not the case. Their primary task is the protection of federal property, they are deployed in the buildings and on the grounds of these properties. They do not engage the protestors until the protestors attempt to vandalize or gain entry to the facilities.

The bigger issue here is these "kids" are crossing the line from civil unrest and legitimate protesting into terrorism and insurgency and if they don't check themselves they may end up dead or in a cell in ADX Florence (Gitmo for U.S. citizens). The Mayor of Portland was involved in the "protest" last night and was Tear gassed for his trouble. That guy is a moron, His job is to find a solution, not exacerbate the issue.

mapuc

07-23-20, 10:57 AM

So Mr. Trump have decided deploying federal agents in some American cities...the reason for this....depends on who's commenting it.

Markus

Hawk66

07-23-20, 12:10 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/22/goldman-sachs-ceo-david-solomon-on-us-economic-outlook-were-in-for-a-very-bumpy-ride.html

Trump has also failed on his most favorite topic: the economy.

Now, after a couple of months are gone, in which scientists warned him several times and seeing the success in limiting Covid-19 in other countries, now he seems to slowly be ready to alter the course, but mainly due to the election.

How many lives could be saved if he and other "followers" in executive positions believed in science instead of fake news ? Not mentioning the economy.

The economy of China is rapidly recovering. It seems in the US some have forgotten how the West won the cold war : Not by closing consulates but by having a much better economy and giving their citizens a better live than the adversary. I can only imagine how the state-controlled media in China uses the covid crisis in the US (and elsewhere) as propaganda how much better their system is...and frankly regarding protecting the health of their citizens: Isn't it also the case concerning this topic ?

ET2SN

07-23-20, 12:30 PM

The only people who don't accept election results are the Democrats.

Remember President Gore? :yep:
If what you had written were true, they would still be fighting the Bush V Gore court battle in Florida.

Just trying to keep it honest. :03:

August

07-23-20, 12:53 PM

Remember President Gore? :yep:
If what you had written were true, they would still be fighting the Bush V Gore court battle in Florida.

Just trying to keep it honest. :03:

Well that's an interesting way to remember it but the fact is that court battles once started will always have an end point especially when it's over election results.

Gore sued to overturn the Florida state election results when it went against him and the case went all the way up to the Supreme Court before he was told to stick it. That wasn't the end of it though as Bush was still dogged by claims that he was an illegitimate president throughout his two terms. Even getting reelected didn't stop the accusations.

Skybird

07-23-20, 01:56 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/i-m-cognitively-there-trump-again-brags-about-his-cognitive-n1234678

Again making a total clown of himself - and not even realising that he does. "Cognitively there", he claims?! Really...?

“The reason most people take the test is they or others start noticing mental decline. They forgot where they parked the car, can’t remember what groceries to buy by the time they get to the store. They keep forgetting to take their medication.” (Vicky Ward).

The last five questions are on the date, the month, the day, the place and the city in which you are. "This is what the President of the United States claims to be able to do."

Well, we are all happy and relieved! Say, Donald, can you bind your shoes alone and wipe your bum without making a mess? Do you slobber your milk without spilling it and can you count through the small 101? If so, tell us all about it, and be proud and completely satisfied with yoursel, you great big boy! :yeah: Make us laughing again!

August

07-23-20, 02:37 PM

Well, we are all happy and relieved! Say, Donald, can you bind your shoes alone and wipe your bum without making a mess? Do you slobber your milk without spilling it and can you count through the small 101? If so, tell us all about it, and be proud and completely satisfied with yoursel, you great big boy! :yeah: Make us laughing again!

There is no "us" Skybird. There is no "we" at least not one that includes you. :salute:

Catfish

07-23-20, 02:39 PM

To be fair, Mr. Biden should also "pass" this test.
Humans. Maybe any'one' running for president should be asked some simple questions, at least.

Skybird

07-23-20, 05:09 PM

To be fair, Mr. Biden should also "pass" this test.
Humans. Maybe any'one' running for president should be asked some simple questions, at least.
The risk with Biden is he may doze off in the middle of the question being explained.

mapuc

07-23-20, 05:16 PM

Edit
What I had written will not happen.
I have therefore removed my text.
Markus

Armistead

07-24-20, 10:28 AM

One could say that his democratic opposition are the true racists in this country. They have made a career of sowing racial division and hatred. They openly consort with racists like Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton. They promote the idea that the entire race of light skinned people are inherently racist which is racist in itself.

If they regain power in November they will not attempt to unite the nation but will further divide it and they may discover the nations tipping point and tear us apart for good.

Dems have to create false narratives and blow up others into major division, rather than move towards solutions. By most all factors minorities are worse off in every major ran Dem city than they were before the civil rights movement. As long as politicians can keep them focused on narratives, they continue to get a pass and voted back in.

em2nought

07-24-20, 12:51 PM

The democrat plan, aided and abetted by their partners in the mainstream media/big tech/China/Hollywood, is to make things as miserable as possible for everyone right up until the election meanwhile blaming all the misery on Trump. They're hoping you'll vote for them because you either believe them, or because you think that they'll stop if you vote them in.

They won't stop, if they win prepare for them to use their new powers in any way possible to get back at you for daring to vote Trump. They don't just hate Trump, they hate you too. They hate America.

August

07-24-20, 03:26 PM

August

07-24-20, 04:27 PM

https://i.imgur.com/2K4Cs6U.jpg

Cybermat47

07-25-20, 07:02 AM

Rick Wiles criticises President Trump for not using President Obama’s alleged secret stash of two billion hollow point rounds against protestors

Today on TruNews we discuss the siege of American justice in Seattle and Portland, and how the jacobin tactics of rioters and elected officials in rebellion is the latest theater in an expanding civil war. We also detail the federal army and arsenal at President Trump’s disposal to quell the insurrection, thanks to the billions of bullets Barack Hussein Obama hoarded to round up Christians and constitutionalists under a President Hillary Clinton. Rick Wiles, Doc Burkhart, Edward Szall. Airdate 07/23/2020

https://player.fm/series/trunews-with-rick-wiles-1342835/bama-bullets-when-will-homeland-security-use-barry-soetoros-2-billion-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammo
_____________________________________

I’m now convinced that our reality is just a simulation, and the person running the simulation has gotten bored and started doing the stupidest stuff they can think of.

Skybird

07-25-20, 10:00 AM

This will leave impressions on voters at home having a loved one not in hospital and beinbg helped, but watching him dying at home.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article244443257.html

Hawk66

07-25-20, 11:25 AM

uh...

270towin.com/2020-senate-election/

Even the senate is not a safe harbor for the Republicans these days.

But I guess this is what the country needs: A complete blue wave, giving the Republican Party a kick in the ass to remember the time, when Reagan, McCain and other similar leaders were in lead ...

BTW - people who have cared for others...

Jimbuna

07-25-20, 12:44 PM

Skybird

07-25-20, 03:09 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/masks-stop-coronavirus-getting-aids-showed-me-stupidity-not-wearing-ncna1234878

I didn't use a condom and got AIDS. I know the regret and guilt in valuing free choice above all. Masks stop coronavirus. Getting AIDS showed me the stupidity of not wearing them. I see people who are making the same error I made 34 years ago when I ignored all the warnings, all the news and all the numbers.

August

07-25-20, 07:42 PM

I'm wondering what happens when people, having gotten used to wearing masks, refuse to stop wearing them once the pandemic is over. :hmmm:

Cybermat47

07-26-20, 02:06 AM

I'm wondering what happens when people, having gotten used to wearing masks, refuse to stop wearing them once the pandemic is over. :hmmm:

It would be mildly strange and not very widespread, and that would be it.

Dowly

07-26-20, 05:08 AM

Fed gets brutally attacked in Portland, badly injured (Graphic):

https://twitter.com/defendpdx/status/1286926279808135168

August

07-26-20, 08:52 AM

It would be mildly strange and not very widespread, and that would be it.

I think it will be more widespread than you think.

We've been telling people for months that it's dangerous not to wear them in public so I seriously doubt that everyone will just stop once government officialdom declares the pandemic over (assuming that ever happens). Especially if improved versions lessen or eliminate the biggest complaints with using them.

But mildly strange or not should we still let people continue to legally walk into banks and jewelry stores etc with them on or do we have to outlaw their use at some point?

Onkel Neal

07-26-20, 09:33 AM

Fed gets brutally attacked in Portland, badly injured (Graphic):

https://twitter.com/defendpdx/status/1286926279808135168

lol, wrong thread

Cybermat47

07-26-20, 10:36 AM

But mildly strange or not should we still let people continue to legally walk into banks and jewelry stores etc with them on or do we have to outlaw their use at some point?

Neither.

Don’t outlaw them, but don’t let people walk into banks and jewellery stores etc while wearing them. Strike a balance between control and freedom. Like how I’m cool with people owning firearms, but think that if they take them to somewhere like a school, they should immediately be treated as a threat by security.

mapuc

07-26-20, 12:13 PM

August

07-26-20, 12:50 PM

Neither.

Don’t outlaw them, but don’t let people walk into banks and jewellery stores etc while wearing them. Strike a balance between control and freedom. Like how I’m cool with people owning firearms, but think that if they take them to somewhere like a school, they should immediately be treated as a threat by security.

Making people take their masks off in close quarters is indeed outlawing them as much as declaring gun free zones attracts mass killers.

Over the past few months our entire government and medical establishment have repeatedly stressed that masks are vital pieces of personal protective equipment against the transmission of disease. They are not going to be able to just declare the pandemic is over like it has sued for peace or something and masks are no longer required.

If it goes on long enough people are going to become used to wearing them and I believe there is going to be more resistance to taking the masks off than there was to making people wear them in the first place. Especially if mask/respirator technology improves to the point they are not uncomfortable to wear.

Skybird

07-26-20, 01:27 PM

What I'm asking myself is:

Is there a life after Trump ?

Is there a life for those who dislike Mr. Trump after he have left the building.
Some of them seems to only having a life dedicated to dislike Trump..
Will they survive if Trump loose ?

Markus
No metaphysics on Sunday evenings, please! :haha:

Biden will give us good entertainment value, no doubt. The difference will be that Trump is intentionally malicious and brutal, Biden can only accidentally be that.

And maybe Biden's choice for VP will be the more important figure to watch out for anyway.

MaDef

07-26-20, 01:34 PM

Making people take their masks off in close quarters is indeed outlawing them as much as declaring gun free zones attracts mass killers.
Kind of funny you should mention this, I was on vacation in June/July (in Oregon no less), I went into a gun shop in Albany, on the entrance was a sign requiring patrons to remove their masks before entering.

Jimbuna

07-26-20, 01:56 PM

No metaphysics on Sunday evenings, please! :haha:

Biden will give us good entertainment value, no doubt. The difference will be that Trump is intentionally malicious and brutal, Biden can only accidentally be that.

And maybe Biden's choice for VP will be the more important figure to watch out for anyway.

Could you imagine if it were to be Hillary Rodham Clinton :o

u crank

07-26-20, 02:21 PM

The difference will be that Trump is intentionally malicious and brutal, Biden can only accidentally be that.

Do you have any proof of that?

Catfish

07-26-20, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Skybird https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2685366#post2685366)
The difference will be that Trump is intentionally malicious and brutal, Biden can only accidentally be that.
Do you have any proof of that?
No doubt about Trump, but I don't know Biden good enough :hmmm: :haha:

u crank

07-26-20, 03:01 PM

^ I don't know Biden good enough :hmmm: :haha:

He’s been in politics since 1973. Trump since 2015.

Cybermat47

07-26-20, 03:39 PM

He’s been in politics since 1973. Trump since 2015.

Are you saying that Biden has decades more of experience, or that Trump has more revolutionary ideas?

u crank

07-26-20, 03:43 PM

Are you saying that Biden has decades more of experience, or that Trump has more revolutionary ideas?

No. Politicians are naturally corrupt. They can’t help it. It’s part of their lifestyle. Joe’s got a giant headstart on Trump.

August

07-26-20, 05:31 PM

Kind of funny you should mention this, I was on vacation in June/July (in Oregon no less), I went into a gun shop in Albany, on the entrance was a sign requiring patrons to remove their masks before entering.

I believe that several states have laws against wearing a mask while carrying concealed firearms.

MaDef

07-26-20, 09:57 PM

Oregon is an open carry state.No license needed

Méo

07-27-20, 05:02 AM

No. Politicians are naturally corrupt. They can’t help it. It’s part of their lifestyle. Joe’s got a giant headstart on Trump.

Those kind of comments always make me chuckle.

Like virtue and probity are a must have for any good businessman. :nope:

August

07-27-20, 08:47 PM

Oregon is an open carry state.No license needed

Maybe the state still wants a clear face picture of anyone walking into a gun store? Maybe the owners figure it deters robbers, but licenses have nothing to do with it. It's being just armed while wearing a mask that some states have a problem with so I have heard.

I'm sure it's just one of those pile on type of charges that are so popular with DA's these days where one act of robbery can be turned into 50 separately chargeable crimes to be horsetraded with the defense into some kind of plea agreement.

Buddahaid

07-27-20, 10:16 PM

And that's the way it is because of the need to have enough to hold someone. Is it fair? I guess that depends on where you're coming from.

mapuc

07-28-20, 04:32 PM

This witch hunt seems to be an eternal stories. Even just 4 month or less to the Election.

I can't get other conclusion.

Earlier this evening I went by CNN to get the latest from USA and I came into some hearing, where (forgot his name) was being interrogated by lawmakers.

When I turned into the channel they were interrogating him with question about Trump and Covid-19, then they turned to these protesters and when I left they were discussing illegale immigrants/aliens.

I was thinking what is this-why shall this man stand trial for what the President have said, done or not said or done.

It smells like an never ending witch hunt to me.

Markus

MaDef

07-28-20, 05:12 PM

Maybe the state still wants a clear face picture of anyone walking into a gun store? Maybe the owners figure it deters robbers, but licenses have nothing to do with it. It's being just armed while wearing a mask that some states have a problem with so I have heard.

I'm sure it's just one of those pile on type of charges that are so popular with DA's these days where one act of robbery can be turned into 50 separately chargeable crimes to be horsetraded with the defense into some kind of plea agreement.

You guys are reading too much into my post, I just thought it was funny (ironic), considering the conniptions people are having over wearing them, and the fact that the state governments are requiring store employees to wear them. although these store employees didn't wear them.

It's been 6 -7 months and I know of only 2 people IRL who has gotten it. both were women and both survived without hospitalization and neither knew the other. People have been sold a bill of goods.

Buddahaid

07-28-20, 10:10 PM

Yes, all the patients with the virus in my hospitals are just faking it.

MaDef

07-28-20, 11:18 PM

Yes, all the patients with the virus in my hospitals are just faking it.
Hospitals are where sick people go to die, so that's nothing out of the ordinary.

Buddahaid

07-29-20, 02:11 AM

Apparently there are some sick people not in hospitals.

Skybird

07-29-20, 02:52 AM

Hospitals are where sick people go to die, so that's nothing out of the ordinary.
No, that are hospices what you mean. To hospital people go in hope to get treatment or easing of pain or extension of living time. Where possible, if they must die they want to leave hospital. Nobody goes to hospital to die, but prefers to die outside, at home, in his family place - or a hospice. I knew people refusing to go to hospital when they had reached a stage in their disease where treatment would not save them anymore.

MaDef

07-29-20, 08:47 AM

Thank you professor Skybird, Although you lecture was wasted as my post was more metaphorical than literal.

mapuc

07-29-20, 03:25 PM

I could have put following text in our Minneapolis thread.

I feel it's more a political issue than riots.

The text is Danish and written by a Danish politician, who are also a Muslim and have been working at Hudson institut for some years, during Obama.

"Black Lives Matters - now Islamist.

The Islamists in the United States and the West have infiltrated Black Lives Matter, and in the Middle East they have adopted George Floyd.
The Iranian clerical regime portrays Floyd as a Shiite martyr, and militant Palestinians in the fight against Israel, and even talks about 'Intifada' in the United States.
This is no longer about George Floyd and the conditions of the blacks in the United States, but about hatred of the West, the values of the West and Israel "
I hope that the Dem in their blindness over Trump is aware of this..or is Trump a bigger threat ??

Markus

August

07-29-20, 04:49 PM

The Democrat candidate doesn't even know where he is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=FTxVXZ1tAAo&feature=emb_logo

Hawk66

07-30-20, 01:54 AM

Washington Free Beacon...is this some right wing youtube Breitbart affiliate to counter the devil's fake news like CNN ?
looks like so, when I look at the nice collections of videos.

So every minor error and confusion of Biden deserves a nice video. So those who collect such videos must then be perfect speakers and humans^^ - nice !

BTW, I just wonder how many videos of Trump with his daily multiple lies, ignorance of basic science alone would fill such a collection. I could hardly imagine that one video/day would be enough.

Skybird

07-30-20, 02:28 AM

as my post was more metaphorical than literal.
Hardly.

u crank

07-30-20, 08:18 AM

So every minor error and confusion of Biden deserves a nice video. So those who collect such videos must then be perfect speakers and humans^^ - nice !

Here is a video of Biden speaking in 2008.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-4RLaYyBI

Is there not a difference in Biden's awareness and speaking ability then and now?

Is the United States about to elect it's first senile President?

I guess that's progress. :D

Skybird

07-30-20, 09:37 AM

Hasn't it been predicted that he would try this trick sooner or later? I am sure it has been predicted.

https://www.businessinsider.com/president-trump-tweet-delay-election-mail-in-voting-2020-7?r=DE&IR=T

Like it has been predicted that he may not recognize a defeat in the election.

Sociopathy, psychopathy, narcissism - don't forget these. Personality disorders like this weigh very, very heavy. They make themselves felt in the patient's motivations, actions and attempted actions.

Do good deed today. Love little Donald, before he starts crying and then stomps his feet again and kicks things around.

Dowly

07-30-20, 09:39 AM

With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???

I'm sure everyone's right on board with that idea. :)

Skybird

07-30-20, 10:21 AM

There is hope that his latest ploy will fumble, too.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/fact-check-trump-suggests-delaying-election-impossible-experts-say-n1235304

u crank

07-30-20, 10:38 AM

There is hope that his latest ploy will fumble, too.

Rest assured that Trump knows he has no constitutional authority to delay an election.

Pull the chain and the monkey does a trick.

mapuc

07-30-20, 11:04 AM

Rest assured that Trump knows he has no constitutional authority to delay an election.

Pull the chain and the monkey does a trick.

Thank you-Then I was thinking correctly Mr. Trump has no rights to delay the upcoming election.

On the other hand, and this is based on what you, my american friends have told me about how this mail voting is done, then I fear there will be a huge attempt on voting fraud.

Remember he is very much hated by many-Thinking he should have another term in the White house-Will be to much for these anti-trump people.

Markus

Mr Quatro

07-30-20, 11:40 AM

Come on man ... only two wacko's are running for POTUS :D

Does it really matter which one wins? Like yeah :o

The GOP has a canidate that they can control with a majority of the Senate and the US Congress.

The democrat's have a canidate that they can control to pass legislation for open borders, gun control, free health care, aminesty for college debts and anyone in this country illegally.

It's a no brainer for me ... I love America staying in the USA

Have you noticed who the democrats are aiming at blacks, hispanics, poor people to get the numbers they need to out wiegh the conservatives.

Vote for America to get better not worse :yep:

Three months from Monday August 3rd will be the National Election with a poor voter turn out due to Covid-19 fear and or a major storm of the century to keep voters from coming to the polls.

Then they will blame jet trails and Russia for messing with our weather to change the outcome :yep:

Buddahaid

07-30-20, 11:53 AM

And others will blame devil sperm and fluoridation, lizard people and vaccines, cell towers camouflaged as trees....

Hawk66

07-30-20, 12:28 PM

Here is a video of Biden speaking in 2008.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-4RLaYyBI

Is there not a difference in Biden's awareness and speaking ability then and now?

Is the United States about to elect it's first senile President?

I guess that's progress. :D

I do not claim that Biden is the best choice for this job ;) but frankly I would choose a guy who is past his best days against a guy who lies all the day and refers to doctors who think witchcraft is real ^^

Onkel Neal

07-30-20, 12:29 PM

Here is a video of Biden speaking in 2008.

Is the United States about to elect it's first senile President?

I guess that's progress. :D

Well, in all fairness, Reagan was getting there. But then again, Reagan was a great man, whereas Biden is the polar opposite, so I could cut Ronnie a lot of slack.

And others will blame devil sperm and fluoridation, lizard people and vaccines, cell towers camouflaged as trees....

Have you been reading my journal?? :timeout:

Hawk66

07-30-20, 12:40 PM

Reagan was THE president. He was the maker of my country's reunification although the lefties in my country mostly do not accept it and give Gorbachev all credits.

u crank

07-30-20, 01:37 PM

Well, in all fairness, Reagan was getting there. But then again, Reagan was a great man, whereas Biden is the polar opposite, so I could cut Ronnie a lot of slack.

I don't think that is true. In August 1994, at the age of 83, Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and this was after yearly trips to the Mayo Clinic for extensive annual exams starting in 1989. When diagnosed he had been out of office for almost five years.

Skybird

07-30-20, 02:13 PM

Former US commander in Europe on Trump's gift to the Kremlin.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-german-relations-damaged-by-troop-withdrawal/a-54370725

The angry lil' boy in the White House stomps his feet again and wills to shoot hos own country's interest just to "punish" those who are guilty of not obeying his narcissistic ego. Serving the country? Not this "president". Its the other way around: the country has to serve this "president".

skidman

07-30-20, 02:50 PM

Reagan was THE president. He was the maker of my country's reunification although the lefties in my country mostly do not accept it and give Gorbachev all credits.

Reagan did a lot for Germany, that's right but he was not THE president:

- Iran–Contra affair

- invasion of Grenada

- national debt +179,6%

- nothing trickled down on nobody, that's a lie and it will always be

He was a likeable guy, and he knew all the actor's tricks. Should have sold used cars instead.

mapuc

07-30-20, 03:39 PM

Onkel Neal

07-30-20, 03:59 PM

I don't think that is true. In August 1994, at the age of 83, Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and this was after yearly trips to the Mayo Clinic for extensive annual exams starting in 1989. When diagnosed he had been out of office for almost five years.

True, I was just recalling his senior moments in the debate with Mondale.

Skybird

07-30-20, 03:59 PM

Been rethinking

So here is another question about the American Presidential election

Is there by any chance some loophole in the American election/presidential law that gives the President this possibility to postpone an election ?

I want to be 110 % sure, when I discuss with my Danish pro and anti Trump friends.

Markus
No, Trump's idea was dead on arrival. Congress sets the date, and even in times of war has not abandoned the tradition to have elections on - please correct me if I am mistaken on the details - the first Tuesday in a Novembre - COME WHAT MAY.

Also, what is different to last election is that even quite some Republicans now are against Trump, some of them quite serious in names and ranks and openly supporting Biden. Trump hass overplayed his hand. And congress still is ruled by Democrats. Guess.

Biden is not strong by himself, in fact he is a weak candidate. But Trump has made him strong by his own Trumpomania. Also, he has lost support of the high ranking militaries, the colonels, generals and admirals. His instrumenbtalization ofnthe military for his own personal interests and his plans in Europe were too much.

em2nought

07-30-20, 04:13 PM

Onkel Neal

07-30-20, 04:40 PM

Yeah, pretty crazy. I feel the excitement of riding the motorcycle at 100 mph on a mountain road, I'm in the curve leaned over about as far as I can go, and I notice a big oil patch just ahead of me... :k_confused:

u crank

07-30-20, 04:45 PM

True, I was just recalling his senior moments in the debate with Mondale.

Maybe so but .... after eight years in office Reagan was still only 77 years old. Biden will be 78 years old before he takes the oath on Inauguration Day 2021.

Just saying. :03:

mapuc

07-30-20, 05:04 PM

Maybe so but .... after eight years in office Reagan was still only 77 years old. Biden will be 78 years old before he takes the oath on Inauguration Day 2021.

Just saying. :03:

(A funny off topic input to u crank post)
One day...One day in the future an elected President will be 99 years old, on the inauguration day.
(End of a funny off topic..)

Markus

mapuc

07-31-20, 12:16 PM

No, Trump's idea was dead on arrival. Congress sets the date, and even in times of war has not abandoned the tradition to have elections on - please correct me if I am mistaken on the details - the first Tuesday in a Novembre - COME WHAT MAY.

Also, what is different to last election is that even quite some Republicans now are against Trump, some of them quite serious in names and ranks and openly supporting Biden. Trump hass overplayed his hand. And congress still is ruled by Democrats. Guess.

Biden is not strong by himself, in fact he is a weak candidate. But Trump has made him strong by his own Trumpomania. Also, he has lost support of the high ranking militaries, the colonels, generals and admirals. His instrumenbtalization ofnthe military for his own personal interests and his plans in Europe were too much.

I forgot the say thank you to Skybird.

So it's the Congress who sets the day.

Hmm now I wonder, is it possible for an elected President to ask for a postpone of an upcoming election ?

I presume s/he has this possibility

I guess it's what he will do - Ask the Congress to postpone the Presidential election-
I doubt however they will grant his request.

And wouldn't it be the first time in US history, if Trump ask the Congress to postpone the election in Nov 2020 ?

Markus

u crank

07-31-20, 12:31 PM

So it's the Congress who sets the day.

Well they have already. They did it on January 23, 1933. It's called The Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Changing an Amendment would not be easy.

Article V of the United States Constitution outlines basic procedures for constitutional amendment.

1.Congress may submit a proposed constitutional amendment to the states, if the proposed amendment language is approved by a two-thirds vote of both houses.
2.Congress must call a convention for proposing amendments upon application of the legislatures of two-thirds of the states (i.e., 34 of 50 states).
3.Amendments proposed by Congress or convention become valid only when ratified by the legislatures of, or conventions in, three-fourths of the states (i.e., 38 of 50 states).

https://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/amending-the-u-s-constitution.aspx#:~:text=Congress%20may%20submit% 20a%20proposed,%2C%2034%20of%2050%20states).

Skybird

07-31-20, 01:52 PM

Hmm now I wonder, is it possible for an elected President to ask for a postpone of an upcoming election ?

Of cours eit is possible, asking for somethign he can as much as he wants. Whether he gets it - thats something very possible. Trump lives a lot by inciting the plebs by making suggestuive statements that often are wrong, ofteh are lies, but he hammers the lies home again and again,and the masses tend to beoeive those who yell
1. the first,
2. the loudest,
3. the ost often.
By that he can hope ti raise pressure formt he street, oime he ahs int he past, to have rules and laws chnaged in his favour.
In this case it is unlikely to be successful, however. I just say this is no unknown method to him, and he has used excessive use of it in the past three years.

Mr Quatro

07-31-20, 02:34 PM

mapuc

07-31-20, 02:49 PM

If you didn't like Obama you won't like Biden who has already stated that he would like to pick Michelle Obama for his
VP pick which at 78 to 82 would put her in the possible posistion of being the POTUS which would put Obama back in the WH :o

(if he wasn't already SOS that is)

Your comment generated another question

As I understand it a President can only stay in the White house for two terms.

Obama was President for two terms.

Lets play a scenario.

Joe wins the election and less than a year after, he due to health problems, has to resign and the VP becomes the President in this case Michelle Obama.
She pick her husband Obama as her VP.

Can Obama become President again, if something should happen to his wife, Michelle Obama ?
(I know sometimes my imagination goes wild)

Markus

u crank

07-31-20, 03:05 PM

Lets play a scenario.

Joe wins the election and less than a year after, he due to health problems, has to resign and the VP becomes the President in this case Michelle Obama.
She pick her husband Obama as her VP.

There is a reason why Michele Obama's is not going to be Biden's VP pick. Having the Obama name on the ticket would be almost as bad as having Clinton's name on it. They are not that stupid.

August

07-31-20, 04:00 PM

Of cours eit is possible, asking for somethign he can as much as he wants. Whether he gets it - thats something very possible. Trump lives a lot by inciting the plebs by making suggestuive statements that often are wrong, ofteh are lies, but he hammers the lies home again and again,and the masses tend to beoeive those who yell
1. the first,
2. the loudest,
3. the ost often.
By that he can hope ti raise pressure formt he street, oime he ahs int he past, to have rules and laws chnaged in his favour.
In this case it is unlikely to be successful, however. I just say this is no unknown method to him, and he has used excessive use of it in the past three years.

You can tell when Skybird has gone off on a ranting tantrum because his spelling always goes to hell. :yep:

Onkel Neal

07-31-20, 06:23 PM

:haha:

MaDef

07-31-20, 07:46 PM

Your comment generated another question

As I understand it a President can only stay in the White house for two terms.

Obama was President for two terms.

Lets play a scenario.

Joe wins the election and less than a year after, he due to health problems, has to resign and the VP becomes the President in this case Michelle Obama.
She pick her husband Obama as her VP.

Can Obama become President again, if something should happen to his wife, Michelle Obama ?
(I know sometimes my imagination goes wild)

Markus

LMAO, no if Mrs Obama is VP and then becomes President because Biden resigns, then the Speaker of the House moves into the VP slot. (there is a clear line of succession into the White House)

I think I posted the following here once before:

Gerald Ford is the only person to serve as both President and Vice President. He never sought either office and was never voted into either office. He was the Speaker of the House and moved into the VP slot when Spiro Agnew (Nixon's VP) resigned, He then became President when Nixon resigned.

August

07-31-20, 09:02 PM

LMAO, no if Mrs Obama is VP and then becomes President because Biden resigns, then the Speaker of the House moves into the VP slot. (there is a clear line of succession into the White House)

Ford only became the Vice President because Nixon nominated him for the job and the Senate confirmed his appointment. It wasn't an automatic promotion. Nixon could have chosen anyone and left Ford as Speaker.

As I understand it the SotH is third in line for succession to the Presidency but only if both the President and Veep are removed, die, resign or become unable to serve at the same time.

Otherwise the Veep moves up to POTUS and he chooses his own Veep.

Skybird

08-01-20, 06:54 AM

Will she be US president in lets say three years from now on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53596705

August

08-01-20, 01:21 PM

This is why we don't want to be allowing Democrats to run the country. They will just continue to sell us out to the ChiComs.

Sen Feinstein says China is growing into a ‘respectable country among nations’

Most Americans realize that the reason China has a lot of productive citizens is because of the wealth they obtained from the USA and other Western countries. That reality, however, has not affected Senator Dianne Feinstein, who had a Chinese spy in her employ for 20 years. She claims China “pulled tens of millions of people out of poverty” and is growing into a “respectable country among nations.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=IEjP36jLUQI&feature=emb_logo

Dowly

08-01-20, 04:23 PM

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 04:58 PM

T(et dans le)rump.

Mr Quatro

08-01-20, 05:02 PM

Will she be US president in lets say three years from now on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53596705

The only thing that qualifies Mrs Obama is that she is black and Mrs Obama

As someone already said she would be a big mistake to pick her for VP, but democrats have been known to make mistakes
before (just not as bad as McCain did picking a woman for his VP)

Three more months and we haven't even had one debate yet ... it's going to get bigger and better than last time I'm sure. :yep:

I'm going to run out of pop corn going to order some now :D

Mr Quatro

08-01-20, 05:06 PM

I know President Xi of China very well. He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a “tough business.” I have ZERO doubt that if President Xi wants to quickly and humanely solve the Hong Kong problem, he can do it. Personal meeting?

Guess who?

You just don't get it do you ... Trump is a salesman, a con man, a poker player, plus he cares about htis country getting the best deal it can with China.

I don't know why I waste my time defending him when you can only see his faults ... You gotta love our country to pick the right one :yep:

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 05:20 PM

Great endorsement. Used car salesman par excellence.

August

08-01-20, 05:22 PM

Guess who?

So? I've sometimes said nice things about people I don't like in order to get what I want but what does he say about the ChiComs now? Post Covid? Pretty much the opposite and of the two messages which do you think is closer to the actual truth about China?

Maybe you don't know how deep Feinstein and her husband are in the ChiComs pocket but understand that she follows the same pattern as Biden. She uses her political position to get sweet business deals for her family members in return her for selling out the country on the legislative front. A senior member of the Senate Committee on Intelligence and Defense Committee she has had multiple Chinese agents on her staff for decades. How many of our secrets have been stolen from her office? If we (not you) put her and the rest of her Democrat ilk back into power over us (not you) they will continue doing it and probably at a far more greater rate than before.

This is from way back in 1997. Maybe it will open your eyes.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-03-28-mn-43046-story.html

mapuc

08-01-20, 05:33 PM

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 05:46 PM

I'm not going to bother trying to validate these but it does look like Trump's hands are not clean of Chinese influence either.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/trump-biden-china-debt-205475
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069298
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/02/13/trump-conflicts-of-interest-tenants-donald-business-organization-real-estate-assets-pay/#b152d9548f97
https://qz.com/929553/here-are-all-the-trump-trademarks-the-us-president-owns-in-china-and-some-that-he-doesnt/

Skybird

08-01-20, 07:14 PM

I clearly remember what a Danish Journalist, said a few month after Trump had been elected.

People shall have in mind Mr. Trump isn't a Politician in the remark we know them. He is a business man and when he sees a deal, he sees it with a business man's eyes not a politicians.

Markus
No, that is mythology. His enterprises went several times bancrupt, and he was sued for not paying bills and for fraudulent business practices sevefal hundred times. He bought himself out of this when becoming president. His Daddy had to rescue his business activities repeatedly. He is as much a big businessman as he is a great president, a great deal maker, a great man. He is an imposter and a blender. :timeout:

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 07:24 PM

Probably after China so he can default on another debt. Of course, he's just pulling their chain for laughs.

August

08-01-20, 08:43 PM

Did Hunter Biden resign from his Chinese company board seats yet or is it considered just a leave of absence until his daddy gets into the oval office?

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 08:50 PM

And what about Trump's interests August? No comment? Pay no attention to the man behind the screen? Oh, look over there I see a shiny thing!

August

08-01-20, 09:12 PM

And what about Trump's interests August? No comment? Pay no attention to the man behind the screen? Oh, look over there I see a shiny thing!

What?, is the next riot, er I mean peaceful protest starting? That can't be Antifa I see, the House Democrats assure us they don't even exist!

Buddahaid

08-01-20, 09:20 PM

August

08-01-20, 10:32 PM

So you can't, or won't, answer the question then. Not surprising given there isn't an answer that leaves Trump looking like he has the high ground when business interests in China are concerned. Just more deflection and yelling louder.

We were talking about Senator Feinstein. Excuse me if I don't fall for your "yeah but what about" game.

mapuc

08-02-20, 12:09 PM

No, that is mythology. His enterprises went several times bancrupt, and he was sued for not paying bills and for fraudulent business practices sevefal hundred times. He bought himself out of this when becoming president. His Daddy had to rescue his business activities repeatedly. He is as much a big businessman as he is a great president, a great deal maker, a great man. He is an imposter and a blender. :timeout:

After I had closed down my computer I suddenly remembered when this Danish journalist said these things.

It was after Trump had withdrawn USA from this Iran deal.

I made a search to find out how many times Trump companies went bankruptcy

"Although Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy, hotels and casino businesses of his have declared bankruptcy six times between 1991 and 2009 due to its inability to meet required payments and to re-negotiate debt with banks, owners of stock and bonds and various small businesses (unsecured creditors)."

Markus

August

08-02-20, 01:53 PM

Problem with mail-in voting no one is saying much about

By
M. Dowling (https://www.independentsentinel.com/author/freebird/) -

August 2, 2020

The biggest problem with mail-in voting that so many seem to ignore is staring people in the face. President Trump has raised the issue only to be accused of undermining the election. That’s the only context the media seems to think is important.
The results from mail-in voting come in slowly and that undermines the election. It is especially slow and inaccurate when combined with the endless process of ballot harvesting. In a close race, it could take months or longer to determine the winner.
Iowa changed its system of voting in February and it’s still undecidedNothing on the New York Primary yet and that was by mail-in voting. Thousands of votes remain uncounted due to technicalities. The technicalities include a lot of invalid ballots.
Congressional candidate Suraj Patel, who had been waiting weeks to find out the results of his race against U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney, said thousands of ballots were not counted.
“We know that nearly 25 percent of people who actually went through the trouble of requesting a ballot, getting it, voting and dropping it in the mail will not have their ballots counted,” Patel told CBS2.
Patel, who did not prevail in the race, said the absentee voting process needs reform.
As many as 20% of New York City absentee ballots cast in the primary have been disqualified, the Daily News reported.
Ballot invalidation contributed to the long wait for results in the Maloney-Patel race for the 12th Congressional District, McEnany said.
New York is not the only state to experience mail-in ballot problems, NPR reported.
More than 65,000 primary ballots have been rejected this year due to late arrival, and that number could be much higher in the Nov. 3 general election.
Who could trust the results of such an election?
Is that really appropriate for a U.S. presidential election? Are we a bona fide Banana Republic now? We laughed at elections in Russia and Afghanistan but they can laugh at us now.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/problem-with-mail-in-voting-no-one-is-saying-much-about/

Catfish

08-02-20, 02:32 PM

It is quite easy, if Trump wins it was all done correctly, if he loses it was a fraud :haha:
And no one brings this up but Trump because he is afraid to lose.

Maybe that Biden is not fit for the "job", but if there ever was a test about being fit for becoming US president (apart from having enough money to put up for the election show), i'd like to see it.

Mr Quatro

08-02-20, 03:06 PM

Catfish

08-02-20, 03:23 PM

Who in the US, the whole world and elsewhere would understand that? No one even understands 2016 already.

Skybird

08-02-20, 03:49 PM

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/wuff_ts/26053554/3-format1007.jpg
.................................................. ....Lifesigns from the Republican party

by: Tagesspiegel, K. Struttmann

I will miss their cartoons on Donald. Best painted Donald portraits there are.

Buddahaid

08-02-20, 04:49 PM

We were talking about Senator Feinstein. Excuse me if I don't fall for your "yeah but what about" game.

No you don't play them but you sure start them, light the fuse and runaway so you avoid the hard questions.

Apparently having large business interests in China is only wrong if you're a democratic politician.

u crank

08-02-20, 05:10 PM

Who in the US, the whole world and elsewhere would understand that? No one even understands 2016 already.

That is a very good question. It is possible that Russia or Sierra Leone or Aliens helped Trump win in 2016. Or 62,984,828 card carrying KKK members voted for literal Hitler and that's how he won. Or any of the other reasons that Mrs. Clinton has cried about for the last four years. I guess it's possible.

Or maybe, just maybe people were not happy with the policies of the previous Administration and did not want Mrs. Clinton to carry on in a likewise fashion. And maybe the DNC just put up one of the more flawed presidential candidates that they could. I guess that's possible as well.

mapuc

08-02-20, 05:39 PM

Or maybe, just maybe people were not happy with the policies of the previous Administration and did not want Mrs. Clinton to carry on in a likewise fashion. And maybe the DNC just put up one of the more flawed presidential candidates that they could. I guess that's possible as well.

I seem to remember someone once wrote

I voted for Trump and I did this because the damage Obama and the Dem have done to the Midwest USA.

Markus

August

08-02-20, 07:41 PM

No you don't play them but you sure start them, light the fuse and runaway so you avoid the hard questions.

Apparently having large business interests in China is only wrong if you're a democratic politician.

Wow are you full of yourself. "Avoid the hard questions" :haha: Who do you think you are Walter Cronkite?

Senator Feinstein has had Chinese spies on her government staff for over two decades. She has yet to apologize let alone pay a penalty for all the national secrets she gave them access to. She and her husband have enriched themselves using her political connections, just like the Bidens, the Kerrys, the Pelosis and more. Unlike newcomer Trump politics is their family business and business has been exceedingly good for them, not so much for the nation as this latest health scare has shown.

Buddahaid

08-02-20, 07:56 PM

So again no answer. Trump gets a free ride because he's a Republican.

August

08-02-20, 08:22 PM

So again no answer. Trump gets a free ride because he's a Republican.

And you have studiously avoided Feinstein because she's a Democrat so I'm just giving Trump the same ride that you give her.

Buddahaid

08-02-20, 09:26 PM

Go back and read again. I never gave Feinstein a pass but wonder why you give Trump a pass for the same crap.

August

08-02-20, 09:33 PM

Go back and read again. I never gave Feinstein a pass but wonder why you give Trump a pass for the same crap.

Sorry but yeah you did. The only mention you have made in response to my post about Feinstein is a "yeahbutwhaddabout" with some links that you can't be arsed to validate. If I have given a pass to President Trump by ignoring you then you have done the same exact thing regarding Feinstein.

Catfish

08-03-20, 03:05 AM

re u crank: If the majority in the US is so happy about Trump why don't they rejoice and be happy? They got what they wanted and probably deserved, so it is all good?

Skybird

08-03-20, 04:08 AM

re u crank: If the majority in the US is so happy about Trump why don't they rejoice and be happy? They got what they wanted and probably deserved, so it is all good?
Majority? In 2016 only 19% of Americans gave a vote for Trump. Thats not even every fifth.

And Clinton in total got more votes, than he got.

The question must be different. Why did not more Americans gave a vote against Trump?

1. Many did not believe how destructive he would be.

2. Russian interference to a.) destabilise the political system, b.) reduce trust in the trustworthiness of institutions and pltlical representation, c.) prevent Clinton who would have more significantly get into Russia'S geopolitcal interests.

3. Messy voting system.

4. The anti-Trump camp was not able to mobilise all potential anti-Trump voters.

--------------------

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-german-ties-are-bad-under-trump-if-biden-n1235092

On the damage done to US-German and US-Euriopean relations

Dowly

08-03-20, 06:42 AM

Senator Feinstein has had Chinese spies on her government staff for over two decades.
There were no 'spies', there wasn't even a 'spy'. FBI notified Feinstein that they have reason to believe one of her California staff had been a target of Chinese recruitment efforts. Feinstein immediately fired the individual.

This was in 2013/2014.

u crank

08-03-20, 06:44 AM

re u crank: If the majority in the US is so happy about Trump why don't they rejoice and be happy? They got what they wanted and probably deserved, so it is all good?

Populism

noun
a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

Trump's approval rating among GOP supporters is still quite high although it has slipped from about 90% to 80%. I seriously doubt that any President would have very high approval ratings during a pandemic.

Now if you are refering to the knuckleheads who are burning and looting in American cities I can assure you that the are not Trump supporters. I'm not sure that they support anyone. It's a trait of anarchism.

Majority? In 2016 only 19% of Americans gave a vote for Trump. Thats not even every fifth.

And Clinton in total got more votes, than he got.

Your lack of knowledge about the American political system is amazing.

Skybird

08-03-20, 08:38 AM

Your lack of knowledge about the American political system is amazing.
I bet I know your system better than you know ours, because elections in your country are more relevant for us than elections in our country do concern you. Ylour elections have effects on us and many others. Our elections have almost nill effects on you. Thats why the interest is so differently strong.

And you may be in need to take some math lessons.

In 2016, there were a total 313 million people with US citizenship in the US.
232 million of these were eligiuble to vote. That are 74%.
But only 123 million actually cared to give a ballot. That are 39%.
59 million voted for Trump. That are 19%. Short of every fifth American.

Of those eligible to vote (232 million), only every fourth voted for Trump.
46.9% did not participate in voting.
25.6% voted for Clinton.
25.5% voted for Trump.
2% were "others".

The numbers are rounded, don't split hairs. What they say, stays the same, no matter whether we go into the third digit right of the decimale or not.
Neither Trump nor Clinton does or did represent any majority of the American people. I wonder if there ever was a president doing so since WWII, and before? Historians step forward!?Needless to say, if voting counts as expressing support for a candidate, Clinton also would have had only short of every fifth's American's support.

60% of total population are not represented by any of the two candidates. Amongst those eligible to vote, almost one half refused to participate in voting, and refused to support any of the candidates.

US presidents speak only for minorities of the population, and represent only a small part of it.

u crank

08-03-20, 09:22 AM

I bet I know your system better than you know ours, because elections in your country are more relevant for us than elections in our country do concern you.

I'm a Canadian Skybird. As for your system, you are right I don't know anything about your system and I have zero interest in it.

And you may be in need to take some math lessons.

59 million voted for Trump.

Get your math right then. 62,984,828 people voted for Trump.

46.9% did not participate in voting.
25.6% voted for Clinton.
25.5% voted for Trump.
2% were "others".

If you knew anything about the US system you would know that those statistics are meaningless. The system doesn't work that way. Every elected polititian in the US, Senators, Represenatives, Governors, Mayors etc are elected by popular vote. The President is not.

60% of total population are not represented by any of the two candidates. Amongst those eligible to vote, almost one half refused to participate in voting, and refused to support any of the candidates.

US presidents speak only for minorities of the population, and represent only a small part of it.

And that would be their choice. You can't force people to vote and if you don't vote you shouldn't complain about the people who were elected. Whether you or they like it or not Trump is the President of all Americans.

Skybird

08-03-20, 09:43 AM

I know how the system works, and that the statistics I listed are not what decide thbe outocme. The outcome is porked by too clever rules that once were meant to protect against the tyrann y of majprity/direct democracy, but now have become a probklem in themselevs and an invitation for deraling the election process.

But I do not want to repeat again what so often has been said befor already. It can all be had via Google:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=OB4oX5_HOMWcsAfWmLjwDA&q=criticism+of+us+election+system&oq=criticism+of+us+election+system&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoECCEQClDEuQFYi78BYMvKAWgAcAB 4AIABSogBxQGSAQEzmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwifw6C5nv_qAhVFDuwKHVYMDs4Q4dUDCAs&uact=5

The system of electoral college simply is an artificial weighing of counted votes that derails the real weight of the counted votes. And that is a problem. Thats why I insist on the "real" eleciton results. You may have noticed that I gave these "real" results for german state elections in the past, too. Only them shows what really has gone on.

And non-voters only are not reölevant when they do not vote for laziness or carelessness. But many do not vote becasue the reject to vote fopr any of the given options, which adds a meanign to their rejection to accept any of these options. Also, I demand every adult of a certain age to know by then what he gets if he elects career and life-long profesisonal politi8cians, and that is what he will get, its the stuff that suually gets comlaine dbaout and gets cirticised. Those voting for this corrupted in-system casiiono game have no right whatever to criticise that they gert what they vioted for when the yget this and nothign else. They have legitimised those that they may then want to criticise. If you vote for a scorpion, do not complain about gettign stung. If you vote for a fraudtser and imposter, do not complain about getting betrayed and ripped off. Only those who wanred of legitimsijg these people, and cautioned againmst voting them and by that legitimising them,m have a right to complain, for they refused to legitimise these and to comply with them.

This song I know from an episode of Northern Exposure, thats when Shelly sings it at the bar.

On her way to work one morning
Down the path along side the lake
A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Poor thing, " she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman, " sighed the snake

She wrapped him up all cozy in a comforter of silk
And laid him by her fireside with some honey and some milk
She hurried home from work that night and soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taken to had been revived
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman, " sighed the snake

She clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful, " she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed and held him tight
Instead of saying thanks, the snake gave her a vicious bite
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman, " sighed the snake

"I saved you, " cried the woman
"And you've bitten me, but why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman, " said the reptile with a grin
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman, " sighed the snake

Sorry, voters have no right to complain if they got right that what they voted for. Voters are to be held responsible for their votes. They legitimised the blende,r the corrupt, the fraudlent, the career basterd, the life-long parasite, they must eb expected to know what kind fo breed they are voting for - so they are hanged up together with them.

August

08-03-20, 05:05 PM

There were no 'spies', there wasn't even a 'spy'. FBI notified Feinstein that they have reason to believe one of her California staff had been a target of Chinese recruitment efforts. Feinstein immediately fired the individual.

This was in 2013/2014.

You don't know what you are talking about Dowly.

SAN FRANCISCO (KPIX 5) – New details emerged Wednesday about how a Chinese spy managed to stay by Senator Dianne Feinstein’s side for nearly 20 years.https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., had a Chinese spy on her staff who worked for her for 20 years, who was listed as an “office director” on payroll records and served as her driver when she was in San Francisco, all while reporting to China’s Ministry of State Security through China’s San Francisco Consulate.https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/10/thiessen-sen-dianne-feinstein-had-a-chinese-spy-on-her-staff-for-20-years/

:roll:

August

08-03-20, 05:11 PM

Here's an interesting article. They claim that if the Democrats loose they will encourage states to secede.

President Donald Trump cannot delay the election, even if he wants to. The very fact he tweeted about that idea is concerning. But a recent attempt to “game” the various possible scenarios of the 2020 presidential election should concern Americans even more. During a strategy session, Hillary Clinton’s former campaign chairman, John Podesta, suggested that if Joe Biden loses in a similar way that Clinton did in 2016, Biden will cry foul, alleging voter suppression. He will pull the strings to keep Trump from getting inaugurated a second time, and his team will pressure Western states to secede if Trump takes office again.

https://pjmedia.com/election/tyler-o-neil/2020/08/03/will-joe-biden-start-a-civil-war-if-he-loses-the-way-clinton-did-in-2016-n744837

mapuc

08-03-20, 05:33 PM

^ Reading things like this, scares me.

Even though I'm not an American the political development in USA scares me.

You have a sitting President who will Yell Vote fraud if he loose and will refuse to leave the White House if this happens.
(I have the feeling - He are convinced the entire American people loves him)

Then you have the Dem and Joe Biden, who will refuse anything than a win.

Looks like you may end up in a political vacuum-Where no one will take place in the White House after Jan 20 2021.
(Or will there under any circumstances be a President after this date ?)

Markus

August

08-03-20, 06:39 PM

Heres some more interesting reading:

Biden: Transition to What?

COMMENTARY

By Steve Cortes (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/authors/steve_cortes/)

By his own admission, Joe Biden concedes he is merely a placeholder, telling a fundraising audience in May: “I view myself as a transition candidate.” This “transition” increasingly means a statist agenda that empowers a political rodeo of radical officeholders, reverses our country back toward globalism, and encourages street-level chaos across our land.
In any administration, personnel choices often compel policy. In the case of Biden, his woke orbit is dominated by agitators. The presumptive nominee’s “Unity Task Force” recommendations -- compiled with the input of prominent progressives -- read like a wish list from the faculty lounges of Ivy League schools in consultation with the University of California system. The manifesto calls for suspending all deportations of illegal migrants and the effective crippling of the American energy industry.

These are not your parents’ Democrats. In fact, the effective “kitchen cabinet” of Biden’s advisers would have been ostracized by the party as recently as a decade or two ago. For example, Biden promises to place Robert Francis O’Rourke as the effective gun czar of a Biden administration. O’Rourke threatens to confiscate millions of firearms from lawful gun owners, including forcible seizures of the most popular rifle in America. Rep. Ilhan Omar, a member of the so-called “Squad” of most progressive House members, openly gloated recently about how far left she moved Biden’s platform. This radicalism extends to potential vice presidential candidates as well. For example, two Californians reportedly on the shortlist of applicants include Sen. Kamala Harris, who affirms taxpayer-funded health care for illegal migrants, and Rep. Karen Bass, who has lavishly praised the late Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

But while Biden points to a progressive future of extremists, he also portends a regression backward toward the globalism that was the hallmark of his half-century in the Washington swamp. Biden personifies the D.C. foreign policy establishment, which clamors for the return of a globalist commander-in-chief. Biden has supported countless calamitous international armed interventions. In contrast, President Trump fulfills his campaign promises and pursues an America First foreign policy of realism and restraint.
As Biden repeatedly sent our warfighters abroad, he also sent our jobs overseas, and mostly to China. When vice president, Biden actually asserted in a 2011 speech that “a rising China is a positive, positive development, not only for China, but for America.” As Biden uttered that Pollyanna nonsense to his Davos-oriented CEO fanboys, industrial heartland America endured devastation. Specifically, our nation lost 3.2 million jobs to China over a 12-year period from the time Biden proposed Beijing’s inclusion as a most-favored trading member of the WTO in 2001, per analysis from the Economic Policy Institute.

Biden’s domestic “transition” sadly points to a place of lawless disorder. As chaos spread across Democratic-led cities, Joe Biden remained ensconced and mostly silent in his Delaware home. He has repeatedly equivocated regarding violent rioters, referring to them at one point as “peaceful protesters.” The police departments of America clearly disagree, which explains why the National Association of Police Organizations, which represents over 240,000 officers nationwide, enthusiastically endorsed President Trump for reelection. (That same group had endorsed the Obama-Biden ticket in 2008 and 2012.) In addition, more than 100 police agencies have refused to bolster Milwaukee Police Department security efforts at the upcoming Democratic National Convention because they are understandably concerned with officers’ safety after that city ordered restrictions on tear gas and other crowd control measures.

As the greatest republic in world history, we clearly deserve far better than all this. We will not settle for acquiescence. We will choose the 2020 candidate ready to reject radicalism, embrace sovereignty, and enforce the rule of law – because this much we know: Your way of life would not be safe in Joe Biden’s radicalized America.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/03/biden_transition_to_what_143860.html

Hawk66

08-04-20, 01:34 AM

What does one expect from a Trump campaign manager ?

This "we have lost xyz jobs to xyz" is just nonsense. We had the same discussion here in Germany 1-2 decades ago.

What does one expect ? That China/India stays for ever poor, we buy raw materials from them and pay some development assistance to them for ever ?

I more than puzzled that some conservatives in the US have forgotten how free markets work, how trade between two countries make both rich, which is described in "The Wealth of Nations" of Adam Smith.

The current issue in the US and elsewhere is that the society does not adapt. Work comes and go - you have to adapt..you have to educate your current and future workforce to new things. I guess I refered the MIT book "The second machine age" couple of times. The strength of the US in the past was that it was capable to quickly adapt to a new environment. This seems to be lost. Corona is another "proof" for this.

Going back like Trumps agenda has never worked in history and btw is going back the spirit of the DNA in your country ?

I do not claim that Biden is (much) better here...which worries me even more...

Catfish

08-04-20, 01:42 AM

@Marcus: both sides will have to accept the outcome of the election, and they will. It is all threatening the "enemy" and ape-like behaviour. Mud-slinging. Posing.

But i understand it much better now:
"How the Right Wing Convinces Itself That Liberals Are Evil.
Since the 1950s, the conservative movement has justified bad behavior—including supporting Donald Trump—by persuading itself that the left is worse."

How the Right Wing Convinces Itself That Liberals Are Evil (https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july-august-2018/how-the-right-wing-convinces-itself-that-liberals-are-evil/)

Good article b.t.w.

u crank

08-04-20, 05:02 AM

The system of electoral college simply is an artificial weighing of counted votes that derails the real weight of the counted votes. And that is a problem. Thats why I insist on the "real" eleciton results. You may have noticed that I gave these "real" results for german state elections in the past, too. Only them shows what really has gone on.

Sorry but again you don't seem to grasp how the American system works. The President does not wield unlimited power. He is restrained by Congress and the Judicial system. The President cannot introduce and pass laws. Congress does that and it is elected, both Senators and House Reps. by popular vote. The people can decide if they want to check the President's power and they do quite regularly. Most mid term elections go against the White House.

By real results I assume that you mean the popular vote. That may work in some countries but in the USA that would mean a permanent Democratic White House. Would that be good for the country as a whole? I doubt it. In my life time Presidents usually get two terms and then the other party takes over. The only variation from that was Carter and Bush Sr. The people who complain the most are usually the people who didn't win. Hillary Clinton and her supporters and the Trump haters.

Real tyranny would be a country ruled by one political party.

Catfish

08-04-20, 05:04 AM

What ? :o

"Donald Trump: US Treasury should get cut of TikTok deal"
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53633315

Skybird

08-04-20, 05:22 AM

Sorry but again you don't seem to grasp how the American system works. The President does not wield unlimited power. He is restrained by Congress and the Judicial system. The President cannot introduce and pass laws. Congress does that and it is elected, both Senators and House Reps. by popular vote. The people can decide if they want to check the President's power and they do quite regularly. Most mid term elections go against the White House.

By real results I assume that you mean the popular vote. That may work in some countries but in the USA that would mean a permanent Democratic White House. Would that be good for the country as a whole? I doubt it. In my life time Presidents usually get two terms and then the other party takes over. The only variation from that was Carter and Bush Sr. The people who complain the most are usually the people who didn't win. Hillary Clinton and her supporters and the Trump haters.

Please. Beleiuve me, I understand the design of the system, I am just not as beleiving that ti works as the foundign father sintended as you seem to be. I do not trust ins oemthign njust becasue it is wqritten, and rules can be avoided anyway, can be exploited, widened, bend, up to the point where oyu comamnd things witho9ut giving a verbal ciommnand you could be held repso9nsible for, and so forth.

We have a phrase in German: "paper is patient".

Real tyranny would be a country ruled by one political party.
Thjat is just one example of tyranny. The anient Greek not for no reaosn difefrentiated between three base forms of it. And massive industry lobbying, deep stgate and industrial miliuaty compexes they did not even imagine.

One advice. Don't believe so easily just because it is written. Trump has broken several rules - and got away with it because the system was never prepared for somebody like him appearing, and the other party was too dumb. the checks and balances faile din preventing ther worst case turning real and maximising damage. For keeping in check threats like Trumpian figures and their malicious ways, the system is unfit, and was never designed for. Its designers could not imagine that a scenario like today could ever turn real. It was unimaginable for them. And I think the same I would need to say after three years of the radical left of the Democrats dominating the WH.

I have often said over the past twenty years that I see the US two ways: by the idealistic claim of what it wanted to be (great sympoathy from me), once; and by the reality that it is today (no sympathy from me). Both are worlds apart. The ideal cannot live up to the reality.

u crank

08-04-20, 07:05 AM

Please. Beleiuve me, I understand the design of the system, I am just not as beleiving that ti works as the foundign father sintended as you seem to be.

Actually it works exactly as the founding fathers intended. The popuation and political leanings in America are not a secret. Large and very populated coastal regions in America are deep blue and have been for a while. If the Senate seats were allotted proportionally and the President was elected by popular vote Democrats and the left would realize their dream of permanent control of Washington. The current system of two Senate seats for each state and the Electoral College system prevents that. I'm not going to explain it further. If you don't understand it or you don't agree with it so be it.

One advice. Don't believe so easily just because it is written. Trump has broken several rules - and got away with it because the system was never prepared for somebody like him appearing, and the other party was too dumb.

Please be specific. What rules?

u crank

08-04-20, 10:52 AM

But i understand it much better now:
"How the Right Wing Convinces Itself That Liberals Are Evil.
Since the 1950s, the conservative movement has justified bad behavior—including supporting Donald Trump—by persuading itself that the left is worse."

How the Right Wing Convinces Itself That Liberals Are Evil (https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july-august-2018/how-the-right-wing-convinces-itself-that-liberals-are-evil/)

Good article b.t.w.

For your reading pleasure.

The Woke Left v. the Alt-Right: A New Study Shows They’re More Alike Than Either Side Realizes

https://quillette.com/2020/08/03/the-woke-left-v-the-alt-right-a-new-study-shows-theyre-more-alike-than-either-side-realizes/

What goes around comes around.

In 1996, Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole called out Time Warner for publishing hip hop music whose lyrics glamorized violence against police officers. (“I would like to ask the executives of Time Warner a question: Is this what you intended to accomplish with your careers? You have sold your souls, but must you debase our nation and threaten our children as well?”) A quarter-century later, it’s progressives demanding the cancelation of movies and TV shows that present the police in any kind of positive light (and numerous other “problematic” themes). Alyssa Rosenberg of the Washington Post, a former colleague of mine, wants us to “shut down all police movies and TV shows.

I guess authoritarians know no real political allegiance.

It’s the same puritanical spirit that prevailed during the heyday of the Moral Majority, except that it’s been marshalled in service of a different faith. And you can hardly blame disaffected progressives, such as Rolling Stone’s Matt Taibbi, for declaring that the “left is now the right” when it comes to smothering cultural and intellectual pluralism.

Whereas the dominant strain of cultural leftism once was primarily characterized by a spirit of compassion, it increasingly has come to be dominated by intolerant scolds who seem more eager to shame heretics than to do actual good in the world. Studies like this one should serve as a wake-up call: Given the strident manner with which progressives denounce bigotry, it surely should trouble them to know that, where underlying personalities are concerned, priests and heretics look very much alike.