View Full Version : US Politics Thread 2016-2020
Subnuts
12-14-20, 07:35 PM
Steiner will come north with his 39 electoral votes any day now.
u crank
12-14-20, 08:03 PM
Steiner will come north with his 39 electoral votes any day now.
:har:
Biden hasn't taken the oath of office yet
Many things could still happen ... fifty cases have been denied true
but some cases are still left to be investigated
We that believe will not give up
People of America still have a lawsuit in MA, which remains the ONLY complaint focusing on the REAL CRIME SCENE of #ElectionFraud:
COMPUTER ALGORITHMS that flip votes to deny you “ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE.”
Landmark Lawsuit Filed in Federal Court Proves There is NO "One Person, One Vote" in Massachusetts VASHIVA.COM
https://vashiva.com/?fbclid=IwAR3cPOOgxl-7GygwXrbjRbZznbX6Nz0CdJyPNs3QQk9XTL1DKvVP9sSXUP4
...
Great source: a quack conspiracy theorist who is more well known as a legend in his own mind than as a serious, reputable person:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Ayyadurai
V. A. Shiva Ayyadurai (born Vellayappa Ayyadurai Shiva, December 2, 1963) is an Indian-American scientist, engineer, politician, entrepreneur, and promoter of conspiracy theories and unfounded medical claims. He is notable for his widely disputed claim to be the "inventor of email", based on the electronic mail software called "EMAIL" he wrote as a New Jersey high school student in the late 1970s. Initial reports that repeated Ayyadurai's assertion—from organizations such as The Washington Post and the Smithsonian Institution—were followed by public retractions. These corrections were triggered by objections from historians and ARPANET pioneers who pointed out that email was already actively used in the early 1970s.
Ayyadurai also attracted attention for two reports: the first questioning the working conditions of India's largest scientific agency; the second questioning the safety of genetically modified soybeans. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Ayyadurai became known for a social media disinformation campaign about the coronavirus; spreading conspiracy theories about the cause of coronavirus; promoting unfounded COVID-19 treatments; and campaigning to fire Anthony Fauci for allegedly being a so-called "deep state" actor.
Seems like just another of the many crackpot "experts" Trump, his minions, and the Trumpettes trot out as "proof" or "facts" to support the Looney Tunes that is the Trump administration. Why is it that almost every single person attached to the Trump loyalist circle looks and act like poorly cast actors in a very bad farce? I mean, when your "crack" attorney is Giuliani and you expect to win with a team like Trump's 'island of broken toys', delusional is an extremely mild term...
...
Plus this election proof that the election could've been hacked :yep:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/an-11-year-old-changed-election-results-on-a-replica-florida-state-website-in-under-10-minutes?fbclid=IwAR0RoVlnyJFMfrE88e_eP2BDlKNmWJZCH xFU5nzWl5FYtT3Th1PfAgpfchc
Sorry, "could've" isn't proof, any more than "should've" and "would've"; Trump could've been a great president, but the fact is, he isn't. Is there anything in your posting that actually prove that any actual hacking actually occurred? Ironically, Trump's constant whining and moaning and carping and bitching about alleged election irregularities in the 2016 Presidential Election have come back to bit home in his overly ample ass. He put so much attention on the voting process, the voting officials in the states bent over backwards to try and make sure their own states and counties were not going to be hung with the collar of being grossly inept or corrupt; no one wanted to be the person who botched their own voting process; the 2018 Mid-Term Elections were very closely watched and not a single major instance of voting irregularities were found, much less corruption; when the heavily GOP Orange County voted in all DEM House reps and ousted GOP candidates, the national GOP made much noise that there must have been vote fixing to produce such a result, but they were stopped dead in their tracks when the Orange County Registrar of voters, himself an elected GOP official, revealed that he had taken the initiative after Trump's 2016 bitch fit to thoroughly scrub the County's voter rolls and tighten up election safeguards, resulting in the cleanest election ever held in that county; his efforts were so impressive, he was contacted by election officials from other states for advice and consultation on how they could replicate his success. Every single election process in this country was under microscopic scrutiny with any number of factions of all political stripes just waiting for the "Gotcha" of finding some sort of failing; no election in history has been watched over, examined, scrutinized, analyzed, and subject to critical observation as the past 2020 Presidential Election. And, yet, Trump and his minions/Trumpettes have yet to find any sort of irregularities that would either prove enough fraud to void votes nor swing any of the local, state, or Federal contests to a different result. All they've come up with is "could've, would've, should've" without any credible supporting facts, a situation very pointedly pointed out by several of the the judges/justices who have tossed out 99.99% of trumps court challenges; for all of Trump's and Giuliani's and their minions vaunted claims of actual, presentable proof, when asked or ordered to provide such evidence they cam up with nothing more than "could've, would've, should've"; even some of the "elite' Trump legal team members made laughable fools of themselves: when one of Trump's lawyers made a claim that Trump observers were blocked from the vote counting process in one state and that state's lawyers countered that multiple Trump observers had, indeed, been allowed into the count, the judge hearing the claim asked the Trump attorney if, indeed, Trump observers were in the counting room and the actual number of such observers, the lawyer responded the number of Trump observers was "not zero" and refused to give the actual count. The judge threw out the suit...
Even Trump's "expert" election analysts have been a collection of whack jobs; one "expert" got a lot of coverage making claims that it was extremely suspicions that some precincts in one state reported 100% or 99.9% turnouts; in the 100% precincts, the turnout was so large because there were so few actual eligible voters in those precincts; one precinct had only eight (8) registered voters and they all turned out to vote, ergo, 100%; the 99.9% and similar 'abnormally high and statistically impossible" recorded turnout numbers were basically scaled down versions of the 100% situations; in one case, the precinct in question had 31 registered voters and 30 of them turned out out vote equaling a 97% turnout; in another, there were 9 registered voters and 8 showed up to vote equaling an 89% turnout; Trump's experts seem to have big problems with actual facts and math and a marked inability to do the actual homework...
The TV is on and someone just made the comment the GOP is going to suffer massive political embarrassment for backing up Trump's whacked out attempts at trying to stay in power; Its kind like when a woman asks if her jeans make her ass look big; the GOP is looking bad because of its ass, Trump...
<O>
bstanko6
12-14-20, 09:13 PM
Why is everyone talking on this thread as if Biden is a good choice?
Really?
Biden is exactly what’s wrong with our country! An old stodgy career politician who does things for himself instead of others.
I have to give Trump some credit here because he did things for long-term pursuits. In establishing a good economy for our country. No other politician ever did that.
He was never a career politician, so he saw things through the eyes of American citizens. And that’s what we needed.
Biden is your old school old hat politician who’s going to destroy everything Trump try to build up for us.
Wolferz
12-14-20, 09:31 PM
Glad I don't engage in political discussion in any way, shape or form.
The whole idea of politics I find to be kind of stupid because it's nothing more than a good old boys liars club.
Politics: The art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere and applying all the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
Buddahaid
12-14-20, 09:33 PM
Trump lost not on his policy, but on his crazy talk and seemingly unstable nature. People who would have supported him were turned off by that just like people voted against Hillary because of her baggage.
Anything that happens with Biden is still to come and I don't think anyone can be certain about it.
Cybermat47
12-14-20, 09:35 PM
Why is everyone talking on this thread as if Biden is a good choice?
Biden is a bad choice, but he’s better than Trump. Like how for many people Trump was a bad choice, but better than Clinton.
Biden is exactly what’s wrong with our country! ... does things for himself instead of others.
Funny, that’s what I think about Trump. I imagine the Kurds would as well - or at least the ones who survived his abandonment of them to the Turks.
He was never a career politician, so he saw things through the eyes of American citizens. And that’s what we needed.
I doubt that someone who talks about getting a “small loan of a million dollars” has the same worldview as your average American citizen.
He certainly didn’t see things through the eyes of all the American citizens who disagreed with him. Or American citizens dying of coronavirus.
Not saying Biden is a good choice, but its obvious, as Buddahaid and Cybermat47 point out, Trump is a really bad choice; I didn't vote for Trump or Clinton in 2016 as I saw both as bad choices, but in 2020 I just couldn't 'throw away' my vote, in good conscience, if it meant a chance of four more years of lunacy, very bad leadership, and chaos, so I voted for Biden, and it seems, so did an awful lot of other Americans. At least we won't have to endure the deranged psychodramas (with the emphasis on psycho) of the past four years, anymore. It remains to be seen what Biden will be like; I rather suspect/expect Biden will not seek a second term, so he will be a sort of transitional administration, like Carter and GHW Bush, so the GOP has four years to find a reasonable candidate and not another whack job like Trump the Chump...
Biden comes in with a, by Trump standards, Electoral College landslide; and Biden received the largest number of votes ever cast for a Presidential candidate, a majority of the popular vote [51.4%] (Trump couldn't even muster a plurality in 2016), and won by a margin of over 7 Million votes cast, all of which Trump never accomplished; in fact, both Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama each earned more vote in their own runs than Trump garnered in 2016...
There's an old SNL sketch where Dana Carvey, playing GHW Bush after losing his run for reelection, is crying out, lamenting, "I'm a Jimmy Carter!"; Trump isn't even a Jimmy Carter: an awful lot of people still respect Jimmy Carter as a person...
<O>
bstanko6
12-14-20, 10:09 PM
Trump lunacy? I’m sorry I have to disagree.
Biden has dementia and now he has access to our missile codes. That’s lunacy!
bstanko6
12-14-20, 10:14 PM
I get it Trump was someone who was privileged.
But when he was in office for these last four years there was nothing lunatic about him.
He was saying the things that we needed to hear.
The fact that China was charging us up the wazoo for tariffs was crazy to me I didn’t even know that existed.
And then I find out that the Saudi Arabians are not paying their fair share for the military support that we are providing.
Trump took our economy and showed us in a mirror as to what exactly we were doing with it and we were tanking.
Biden never did anything positive for our economy once in his 47 years.
Biden already told us he was going to lock down the country again and he’s going to attempt to take away our Second Amendment rights. I got problems with this!
Before anyone interjects about the second amendment, any alteration to it is an unconstitutional act.
Buddahaid
12-14-20, 10:31 PM
Yes, I believe Trump is too idiotic to be president and we'll just have to deal with Biden for now. I'm hoping he keeps the fringe left at arms distance.
I get it Trump was someone who was privileged.
But when he was in office for these last four years there was nothing lunatic about him.
He was saying the things that we needed to hear.
The fact that China was charging us up the wazoo for tariffs was crazy to me I didn’t even know that existed.
And then I find out that the Saudi Arabians are not paying their fair share for the military support that we are providing.
Trump took our economy and showed us in a mirror as to what exactly we were doing with it and we were tanking.
Biden never did anything positive for our economy once in his 47 years.
Biden already told us he was going to lock down the country again and he’s going to attempt to take away our Second Amendment rights. I got problems with this!
Before anyone interjects about the second amendment, any alteration to it is an unconstitutional act.
Trump doesn't even possess the ability or mindfulness to put together a cogent, simple sentence or thought; his inability to grasp reality or recognize facts, as presented, speaks to a far more troubled mental state and it should be remembered that, early on in his term, he, on at least two separate occasions divulged highly classified intel to foreign representatives who had no right to be shared that information and Trump did so mainly because he wanted to burnish his image as a 'very important man' to impress those foreign representatives; there were also incidents and other occasions, such as the time he publicly, and loudly, too a classified call while out in the open public at his Florida Mar-a-Lago club, much to the dismay and horror of his military and and intelligence advisors; the question of who should have control of the missile codes and national security makes obvious someone so scattered and careless and cavalier with our nation's safety as Trump should never be allowed to be anywhere near our nations secrets and safety; if anyone else in the national security structure had behaved in a manner like Trump, they would have been fired, arrested, and prosecuted for breach national security and, probably, treason...
<O>
Cybermat47
12-14-20, 10:45 PM
But when he was in office for these last four years there was nothing lunatic about him.
He declared Twitter a national security threat because some people made childish insults.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-twitter-diaperdon-election-press-conference-b1762682.html
bstanko6
12-14-20, 10:47 PM
Vienna...
Biden refers to a “bad dude” as “Cornpop!”
And talks about a little kid rubbing his leg up and down!
In the words of Biden.... “C’mon man!”
Biden is a pure hypocritical creep.
He pardoned the ATF of killing women and children during the Waco raids.
Literally only did one thing his whole career was the 1994 gun ban.
He is not a man we want as president.
bstanko6
12-14-20, 10:49 PM
Twitter is a security threat because they deny people’s first amendment right to free speech!
In a world where cyber technology is king especially in social media, the last thing we need are people deciding what free speech is allowed or not.
Buddahaid
12-14-20, 10:56 PM
Well, you have drank the Koolaid it appears. That's your right.
bstanko6
12-14-20, 10:57 PM
Coolaid?
Isn’t it true that Biden said those things? That’s not Kool-Aid friend that’s actual truth.
I’d rather have an incoherent Trump than a pedophilic Biden.
What about Waco? I watched Biden live back in the day actually pardon the ATF. Was I seeing something different?
Cybermat47
12-14-20, 11:16 PM
Twitter is a security threat because they deny people’s first amendment right to free speech!
In a world where cyber technology is king especially in social media, the last thing we need are people deciding what free speech is allowed or not.
How does Twitter deny people their first amendment rights?
The corporation that owns Twitter can run Twitter however it wants to, and delete any content that it wishes to. That’s not denying freedom of speech, that’s a company controlling a platform that it owns.
That’s just how capitalism works.
bstanko6
12-14-20, 11:20 PM
You literally just said it! A company decides the speech allowed.
The media decides the speech allowed.
That’s the issue... thank you!
In a world where media and social media are controlled by companies, and they don’t like the current president, how can the president possibly get out his truth to the people?
There are two sides to every story but in this case we hear only one!
Elections are about information, but if the information is biased how can people be informed?
Cybermat47
12-14-20, 11:25 PM
You literally just said it! A company decides the speech allowed.
The media decides the speech allowed.
That’s the issue... thank you!
In a world where media and social media are controlled by companies, and they don’t like the current president, how can the president possibly get out his truth to the people?
There are two sides to every story but in this case we hear only one!
A company decides the speech allowed on a platform owned by that company. That’s capitalism.
Twitter will not ban you if you insult someone outside of Twitter.
If someone went to one of Trump’s businesses and started an anti-Trump rally there, would the security guards be violating their rights if they removed that person?
Buddahaid
12-14-20, 11:32 PM
Well since the GOP made a company a person as far as campaign contributions are concerned, those companies have first amendment rights too it would follow.
The solution is for the right to have there own media outlets, well, like OAN. They always softballed Trump so he thinks they're great. Why is it that more people don't think they're great? Maybe because the message is broken?
bstanko6
12-14-20, 11:33 PM
Correct! I’m agreeing with you!
So with all of media is owned by a few companies and all of those companies hate Trump do you think Trump got a fear unbiased representation by the media who claim they report the news for the people?
Did everyone of trumps policies get a fair review by these journalists? I don’t think so. So therefore the people were uninformed.
bstanko6
12-14-20, 11:39 PM
We’re never going to come to any kind of agreement on anything when it comes to trump and Biden. But can we agree on one thing?
Biden has dementia and has our nuclear missile codes!
https://youtu.be/_lr_lhMh9-Q
Buddahaid
12-14-20, 11:46 PM
I don't think you have a clue what dementia is.
bstanko6
12-14-20, 11:57 PM
Sure I do! I just posted the video of mental illness! Take a look!
Look I know you are a Biden fan.
Let’s just agree that the next four years are going to be horrible for our country and hopefully Trump will get back in 2024 and right the wrongs.
Meanwhile Biden can play with Cornpop and have little boys rub his legs!
Buddahaid
12-15-20, 12:16 AM
I'm by no means a Biden fan. I see him as an end to the most bizarre presidency I've lived through which goes back to Kennedy.
bstanko6
12-15-20, 12:26 AM
Bizarre?
Really?
You are ok with Cornpop?
Who is drinking cool aid here?
At least explain to me how Biden is not bizarre? Please? Help me see your point of view.
nikimcbee
12-15-20, 02:06 AM
We need to get a pool going, to see how long prez cornpop lasts.
bstanko6
12-15-20, 02:19 AM
Yeah... How long until camel toe Harris takes over and turns this country into a disgusting crap hole like the town she came from!
Subnuts
12-15-20, 05:12 AM
camel toe Harris
Charming.
Cybermat47
12-15-20, 05:32 AM
Yeah... How long until camel toe Harris takes over and turns this country into a disgusting crap hole like the town she came from!
What a mature response.
bstanko6
12-15-20, 08:20 AM
when her and Biden’s party respect election laws then I will respect them.
Skybird
12-15-20, 08:40 AM
The seeds are growing.
u crank
12-15-20, 08:54 AM
Oh boy...
Really. The discussion here has devolved into whether Trump has the ability or mindfulness to put together a cogent, simple sentence or thought or if Biden has dementia and has our nuclear missile codes.
When it comes to politics the only thing that matters is policy and how an administration enacts that policy or proposes to enact it. Biden is naming his Cabinet choices. That is far more important than cornpop or suggesting that Trump should never be allowed to be anywhere near our nations secrets and safety.
What's going on here is childish.
Skybird
12-15-20, 09:46 AM
https://shcherbakpopov.com/wp-content/gallery/golden-clown/9aafff36-82ca-46d6-b1eb-804805535de6-768x1024.jpg
Every four years the winner is the same.
Mr Quatro
12-15-20, 10:50 AM
We need to get a pool going, to see how long prez cornpop lasts.
Yeah... How long until camel toe Harris takes over and turns this country into a disgusting crap hole like the town she came from!
Charming.
What a mature response.
Really. The discussion here has devolved into whether Trump has the ability or mindfulness to put together a cogent, simple sentence or thought or if Biden has dementia and has our nuclear missile codes.
What's going on here is childish.
I enjoyed all of that :haha:
Jimbuna
12-15-20, 01:52 PM
A top member of US President Donald Trump's Republican Party, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, has congratulated Joe Biden on winning the presidential election last month.
Senator McConnell spoke after the electoral college formally confirmed Mr Biden's victory over Mr Trump.
The Democrat won 306 electoral college votes to Mr Trump's 232.
President Trump still refuses to concede, making unsubstantiated claims of widespread fraud.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55323407
Better late than never I suppose.
Catfish
12-15-20, 04:51 PM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump?lang=de
No comment needed.
Skybird
12-17-20, 08:21 AM
Better late than never I suppose.
Its not just about What. Its also about How. And the man is a repeated offender.
No, the guilt is not to be equally shared. No, both parties did not do the same amount of damage. No, they are not both to be blamed the same way. The one side was and still is behaving much, much worse than the other, and doing much more serious damages.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/15/opinions/mitch-mcconnell-gets-no-applause-filipovic/index.html
Both sides are guilty of divisive rhetoric. But only one has consistently lied to the American people, enabled a dangerous wannabe autocrat, refused to recognize reality when it's inconvenient and attempted to steal an election that came off just the way it was supposed to, and against some steep odds during a pandemic: free and fair.
Biden is right that we need healing. But it's not both sides who have equally done damage -- only one of them has a lot of compensating to do.
Biden wll not heal this, he cannot. Only maybe depleting mindsets on the side of Republicans open a chance for change for the better. I cannot see that happenign any time soon, more likely said mindset fortifies for all time to come.
u crank
12-17-20, 09:03 AM
Joe Biden is not particularly known for good strategic decisions. And he is not about to change.
Given their astonishing lack of relevant experience, it appears that Biden put the names of all the people he liked in a hat and then randomly drew them out. How else to explain his selection of Neera Tanden, who is not an economist, to run the Office of Management and Budget?
Or Pete Buttigieg, whose biggest job was mayor of the small city of South Bend, Ind., to be secretary of transportation? Or California Attorney General Xavier Beccera to run the Department of Health and Human Services?
Jennifer Granholm did serve two terms as Michigan’s governor, but it’s hard to see how that qualifies her to oversee America’s vast nuclear arsenal as the secretary of energy.
Maybe the biggest head-scratcher is his selection of Susan Rice, whose entire career has been devoted to foreign affairs, to lead the White House Domestic Policy Council. Perhaps her run as President Obama’s national security adviser was so disastrous that Biden figured she must be better at something else.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/12/17/biden_assembles_a_fedora_cabinet_144870.html
Biden’s picks suggest a new chapter in the rise of identity politics. In the olden days, one’s training and accomplishments were the measuring stick for employment. Future leaders toiled long and hard in their chosen fields in the hope that one day they might run the show.
Today, it’s not what you know but who you are that counts. The need to have a government that looks like America – or at least that tiny sliver that attended Ivy League schools – matters most.
And when you are running the identity politics game it is hard to please everyone. Joe is about to find that out.
Biden says he wants to unify the nation, but his Fedora Cabinet suggests that brass knuckles and party loyalty are the prime qualifications to serve in his administration. The only mystery is why he didn’t name his wife to run Health and Human Services. At least she’s a doctor. :O:
bstanko6
12-17-20, 09:49 AM
U Crank...
Biden doesn’t make good strategic decisions. He was the one that found the ATF not liable for Waco. That was when they killed women and children. And calling black urban males super predators it’s not a strategic decision.
The man is absolute garbage.
Mr Quatro
12-17-20, 11:15 AM
Never give up ... Biden is going down the rabbit hole :yep:
U Crank...
Biden doesn’t make good strategic decisions. He was the one that found the ATF not liable for Waco. That was when they killed women and children. And calling black urban males super predators it’s not a strategic decision.
The man is absolute garbage.
Not as bad as that POS Trump,lol And we put up with that brainless jackass for 4 years!
Reading your comments give me the impression that USA has gone from plague to cholera or the other way around.
Markus
Buddahaid
12-17-20, 04:25 PM
U Crank...
Biden doesn’t make good strategic decisions. He was the one that found the ATF not liable for Waco. That was when they killed women and children. And calling black urban males super predators it’s not a strategic decision.
The man is absolute garbage.
Arson investigation concluded the Davidians started three fires in the compound. Get over it.
Cybermat47
12-17-20, 04:39 PM
Arson investigation concluded the Davidians started three fires in the compound. Get over it.
I mean, if it was a government arson investigation, there is room for doubt. And after the murders of George Floyd and others, I’d say that there’s an understandable mistrust of US law enforcement.
Buddahaid
12-17-20, 05:06 PM
This was in 1993 and that mistrust led to the Timothy McVeigh bombing.
bstanko6
12-17-20, 06:06 PM
@eddie...
It doesn’t matter what fires were started!
The government did not need to fill the compound with military smoke rounds or cause stress to kids! You get over it!
And Trump has done nothing but get our economy under control.
The regular politicians can’t wait to get Biden in so they can get their kickbacks going again!
It must be an excruciating 4 years for career politicians to be held accountable to the American people!
And as far as Biden going down a rabbit hole... he never left! His brain is fried along with Cornpops!
Skybird
12-17-20, 06:14 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408
Attempted mass murder, partially successful.
It was shown by mathematical modelling done in Oxford already in late spring that such a "strategy", if inhumane cynism can be called a strategy, renders casualties unacceptable by scale, and that it would take much longer, severla times as long as is claimed, to acchieve herd immunity this way. I stick to it. Its attempted mass murder, partially successful. Applause! BTW, currently its 9/11 every day in the US.
bstanko6
12-17-20, 07:34 PM
@Skybird...
I’ve seen that before in other countries. I think the idea is to naturally strengthen human immune system through exposure.
But with the death grip pharmaceutical companies have in the US... they would never allow it. They want their money!
Never hurts to have a strong think tank!
Skybird
12-17-20, 09:17 PM
Herd immunity in case of a lethal desease has a slightly higher cost than herd immunity in case of a non-lethal desease. There is a principal ethical problem, and there is a total number to be considered that marks the "cost": deaths, that is. How many people of the herd are to be slaughtered to let the others feel alive and well again?
I expect to learn that you are more forgiving on that costs than I would will to agree to. At least as long as the dying thing is not up to you.
Sweden did it. Their king yesterday called the strategy a failure, for good, dramatic reason. Britain originally tried to implement it, and broke off very early, for good reason. The death toll is too high.
The cost in case of Covid 19 is too high. You could as well go into private homes and shoot people with poistols, saves a lot of time, money and mumbo jambo with ambulance drives and hospital action.
Or you force people to draw lots.
Herd immunity strategy in case of a lethal pandemic is nothing you want to aim at. Its something you need to accept in case you cannot do anythign else - if all hope is lost, you need to let people suffer what they must, because you have no choice. Its no choice you intentionally want to make.
Yeah because dragged out lock downs driving up the suicide rate, the murder rate, the child abuse rate, the domestic violence rate and more are so much better.
Cybermat47
12-17-20, 09:54 PM
I’ve seen that before in other countries. I think the idea is to naturally strengthen human immune system through exposure.
You have to survive the potentially lethal disease to be strengthened by it.
Also, you were complaining about the US government killing people a few posts ago, but now you're okay with them saying that they want people to be infected with a potentially lethal disease?
American politics seem like they're less about policy and improving the country, and more about loyalty to a party or person :roll:
Buddahaid
12-17-20, 10:51 PM
Yeah because dragged out lock downs driving up the suicide rate, the murder rate, the child abuse rate, the domestic violence rate and more are so much better.
Not better and certainly a poor reflection of human character. We are collectively dumb enough to self destruct from boredom?
Kptlt. Neuerburg
12-17-20, 11:29 PM
Not better and certainly a poor reflection of human character. We are collectively dumb enough to self destruct from boredom?https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2020/12/12 Does that answer your question?
Not better and certainly a poor reflection of human character. We are collectively dumb enough to self destruct from boredom?
It's a lot deeper than mere boredom, I'm thinking more like a half million years of evolution. Human beings have always had a problem with confinement, not to mention uncertainty and insecurity. Some people just can't stand too much of that kind of thing and everyone, except the most introverted, are more stressed over it. Some, perhaps already not that far from the edge are pushed over the edge, others just wither away mentally and physically. But whatever those casualties are real victims and just as real as those who actually get sick or die from the disease.
We are paying a price for lock downs and since we're doing them on a level never even attempted before nobody has any idea what their eventual cost will truly be. One early casualty though is the concept of inalienable rights. Nothing that can be taken away by unilateral decree is inalienable or a right.
Cybermat47
12-18-20, 12:14 AM
We are collectively dumb enough to self destruct from boredom?
Depression, PTSD, and other conditions leading to suicide can easily be exacerbated by social isolation, so there’s nothing dumb about the fact that lockdown has resulted in increased suicide rates. I’ve attempted suicide multiple times this year, in fact.
As for child and domestic abuse that leads to murder, the victims and the perpetrators are now in close proximity a lot more than they were before, so increased rates of abuse and murder make complete sense, sadly.
Just because quarantine is the best option until a vaccine is ready for mass deployment doesn’t mean that there aren’t serious problems with it.
bstanko6
12-18-20, 01:16 AM
@Cybermat47...
I don’t agree with the herd infection, just saying I understand why governments would attempt them. When met with a Pandemic that is so complex as COVID is, you have to take everything into account.
Yeah because dragged out lock downs driving up the suicide rate, the murder rate, the child abuse rate, the domestic violence rate and more are so much better.
August, sometimes I think it would be good for you to open your eyes. Look at science. Look how other countries do it (no, I do not think of mine), especially in Asia.
And btw. We do not talk only about deaths of Convid-19...do you have a clue how many people, who survive Covid, even younger and athletic ones, are chronically ill ? Who cannot do a walk of 1 mile anymore, have no energy left for their job and nobody knows when or if they recover at all ?
As Skybird has pointed out...every day there is 9/11 in your country. Trump had the opportunity to try to unify the country and lead....dropping the death rate at least by 25%....and this is a conservative estimate.
Jimbuna
12-18-20, 05:27 AM
President should use army to ‘rerun’ election, says Flynn as Pence vows to ‘keep fighting’
General Michal Flynn has urged President Donald Trump to use the military to force an election "rerun."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-news-%e2%80%93-live-president-should-use-army-to-rerun-election-says-flynn-as-pence-vows-to-keep-fighting/ar-BB1c230p?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBoPWjQ
This is now going from the sublime to the ridiculous.
What next, a second civil war?
Catfish
12-18-20, 06:15 AM
Seems the distribution of the vaccine is a bit 'difficult', while Trump and his supporters blame Pfizer the company has told that their is no problem on their side.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/states-pfizer-vaccine-allotments-cut-week-74791269
Skybird
12-18-20, 07:11 AM
This is now going from the sublime to the ridiculous.
What next, a second civil war?
Reversing the outcome of the civil war. The South lives! :03:
Disclaimer: I am unable to exactly tell you to what amounts I am serious or make a joke only.
And btw. We do not talk only about deaths of Convid-19...do you have a clue how many people, who survive Covid, even younger and athletic ones, are chronically ill ? Who cannot do a walk of 1 mile anymore, have no energy left for their job and nobody knows when or if they recover at all ?
Do you know? It can't be a very high percentage of the total cases.
And don't speak to me about other countries, especially Asian ones like Red China. If anyone actually thinks that their published covid figures have any basis in reality then they are the ones who really need to open their eyes.
bstanko6
12-19-20, 01:45 AM
Some of you were talking about a second Civil War.
All I can say is this… In all the years here in the United States I’ve been through elections, I have never seen one where there were so many questionable behavior amongst the states during ballot counts.
I don’t know if there was cheating or fraud, but I do know a lot of people are mad here.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a major event or incident would occur over this. The country is damn near split down the middle.
Cybermat47
12-19-20, 01:52 AM
And don't speak to me about other countries, especially Asian ones like Red China. If anyone actually thinks that their published covid figures have any basis in reality then they are the ones who really need to open their eyes.
I understand not trusting the PRC, but what’s wrong with the figures of other countries? And why would Taiwan be less trustworthy than, say, Australia?
Catfish
12-19-20, 06:15 AM
[...]
All I can say is this… In all the years here in the United States I’ve been through elections, I have never seen one where there were so many questionable behavior amongst the states during ballot counts. [...]
What is this "questionable behaviour" exactly?
The incumbent Potus is egoistic and dumb enough rather risking a civil war than accepting he just LOST. What a SORE LOSER!
So Trump tweets "I have won" and his followers believe him, against all evidence, checked and double checked, and before courts.
What angry fanatics and haters make of it makes the rest of the world really doubt Trump's sanity and that of his followers.
Trump lost, end of story. If Americans do not accept an outcome that does not please them this democracy is worth nothing.
[...] I do know a lot of people are mad here.
If i take this literally i agree. Not much different from the UK. Or from here. :D
bstanko6
12-19-20, 06:28 AM
Catfish...
Good leaders can be egotistical.
Trump may be disliked, but He has done good! Economically speaking we are in a good spot here.
I can’t speak for all but I think he has been a great president.
u crank
12-19-20, 07:14 AM
The incumbent Potus is egoistic and dumb enough rather risking a civil war than accepting he just LOST. What a SORE LOSER!
So Trump tweets "I have won" and his followers believe him, against all evidence, checked and double checked, and before courts.
What angry fanatics and haters make of it makes the rest of the world really doubt Trump's sanity and that of his followers.
Trump lost, end of story. If Americans do not accept an outcome that does not please them this democracy is worth nothing.
It is not hard to see a obvious double standard here. When Republicans cast doubt on fair election they are 'fanatics' and 'sore losers', When Democrats do it they are the righteous 'resistance'.
Almost every available weapon was used against Trump to end his Presidency. A special council investigation, an impeachment attempt, and a never ending assault by the legacy media, big tech and Hollywood blowhards.
Don't get me wrong. I am not defending Trump or his disputing of the 2020 election. But wow some people have a decidedly myopic view of what went on in the last four years. To this day Hillary Clinton thinks the Trump Presidency is illegitimate. Isn't that a sore loser?
skidman
12-19-20, 07:30 AM
Trump may be disliked, but He has done good!
Hm. No. Even if the corona effects on economy are unconsidered: The trade deficit has increased remarkably, the national debt is a nightmare and the only ones to profit is the wealthiest 15%. If you take a look at the big picture Trump followed the same neocon ideology Reagan applied. And he got the same ugly results. The only difference in Trump's approach were the protectionist trading practices and for good reason: One can hardly neglect the USA have a very hard time competing with the Chinese these days.
Catfish
12-19-20, 08:34 AM
It is not hard to see a obvious double standard here. When Republicans cast doubt on fair election they are 'fanatics' and 'sore losers', When Democrats do it they are the righteous 'resistance'.
Can you remember what happened immediately after Trump was the president elect? Do you remember the drivel, hate, "sore loser" accusations, snowflakes, "butthurt" and all those other even worse insults directed towards Clinton and the democrats? This was already a new low, when certain people had their say and came back at all the banks and politicians and jews and blacks and LGTB people, democrats, and all else they hated, or what was given to them to hate, by Trump.
And the republicans "cast doubt", this is going far beyond as you can clearly see. Wait for it.
u crank
12-19-20, 10:21 AM
Can you remember what happened immediately after Trump was the president elect?
Yes I do. And since then we have found out a lot more. And in fact the beginnings of the "Crossfire Hurricane" investigation are now being looked at by a Special Council led by U.S. Attorney John Durham. The characters involved, Comey, Brennan , McCabe and others have all been exposed as government officials who wanted to take down President Trump. Some of this happened while Trump was still a candidate, some while he was President elect and it continued while he was President.
Do you remember the drivel, hate, "sore loser" accusations, snowflakes, "butthurt" and all those other even worse insults directed towards Clinton and the democrats?
Not really, but then again if Mrs. Clinton was openly saying the things she did say well then she was a sore loser. She wrote a book about it. And she was a source of disinformation about Trump's win. And she has continued to say it to this day. So she is still a sore loser. Perhaps you need to understand just what sore loser means.
This was already a new low, when certain people had their say and came back at all the banks and politicians and jews and blacks and LGTB people, democrats, and all else they hated, or what was given to them to hate, by Trump.
Once again it would appear that you believe that I am defending anything that Donald Trump has said or done. I'm not. Both sides are wrong here. Or do you believe that is not a possibility.
And the republicans "cast doubt", this is going far beyond as you can clearly see. Wait for it.
The truth is that we have had two Presidential elections that a significant proportion of the losing side believes is illegitimate. It would appear to me that the problem isn't the losers, Clinton or Trump but the election system itself and the media who drive these kind of accusations. It would appear to be very untrustworthy system.
Buddahaid
12-19-20, 11:21 AM
Even if the election system was bulletproof and made easy to use the losers would always cry foul. In 2016 even the winner cried foul.
This was already a new low, when certain people had their say and came back at all the banks and politicians and jews and blacks and LGTB people, democrats, and all else they hated, or what was given to them to hate, by Trump.
What a load of foreign crapola. The only hate i've seen displayed is by your leftist friends Comrade.
Catfish
12-19-20, 01:15 PM
I am not your or anyone's comrade, and i am not 'leftist'. I obviously am in your opinion, but this means nothing.
Are you active in any other forum than Subsim?
I am not your or anyone's comrade, and i am not 'leftist'. I obviously am in your opinion, but this means nothing.
Are you active in any other forum than Subsim?
Well you certainly sound like one to me. Always bashing and denigrating anyone that you consider to your right politically but you never act like that to the left. As for my activity in other forums, I know that the leftists are taking names for their enemies lists but I didn't know it included such detailed information so why do you ask?
bstanko6
12-19-20, 01:54 PM
And this is what I mean. We are so divided that we see Trump in good and bad lights... hence why I believe something serious is about to occur in this country.
In the words of Count Dooku:
“It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber.”
Buddahaid
12-19-20, 02:20 PM
Really. It doesn't take a lot of looking when your eyes are open.
So you're Okay with armed revolt? Welcome to the banana republic of Trumpland.
Catfish
12-19-20, 02:20 PM
Well you certainly sound like one to me.
Giving someone who works for his money the etiquette "left" because he is for an affordable health care, or dares to criticize the killing of Mr. Floyd? Reason and tolerance are only "left" virtues?
That is the problem, you are so divided and full of hate towards other opinions that you have lost any idea how a real lefty looks like, or what he believes. Even the normal right-wing must look 'left' from this extreme point of view.
My take is that some have lost every measure because of this division going on, not only in the US. Which is also true for the left.
Giving someone who works for his money the etiquette "left" because he is for an affordable health care, or dares to criticize the killing of Mr. Floyd? Reason and tolerance are only "left" virtues?
If that's what you were about then you certainly obscure it well with your over the top anti-trump rhetoric. You saying that Trump is sending his followers after the Jews for instance. You're talking about a man whose daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism, a man who filled long standing promises and moved the US embassy to the Israeli capital, who has brokered multiple peace treaties with Arab nations for Israel. Oh yeah a real anti-semetic he is... :roll: but I guess that doesn't fit the pravda so you don't get the irony right?
That is the problem, you are so divided and full of hate towards other opinions that you have lost any idea how a real lefty looks like, or what he believes. Even the normal right-wing must look 'left' from this extreme point of view.
So says the guy who is so full of hate that you call Trump an Anti-Semite. Projection of ones own faults is a typical leftist tactic. You're walking like a duck and talking like a duck so don't blame others for seeing you as a duck.
Catfish
12-19-20, 03:31 PM
I am wrong regarding Trump alone, but not his followers. I used this as an analogy to what has happened before. You pick out one thing and base all your bile on this, disregarding all else.
Social changes often begin with language. First the language becomes rougher, then linguistic taboos are broken, which is subsequently adopted by many. At the very end of the escalation stage, the government follows, which thinks it has to take up the mood.
So the EU had a close ally in Donald Trump who saw the free trade agreements negotiated so far as being a major disadvantage for America. Trump tweets about the reduction of tariffs with the EU, but then does the opposite and introduces new custom laws without taking time on cutting tariffs to negotiate at all.
Brutalization of language also leads to the brutalization of international politics. There is talk of trade war and we versus them.
Former partners become opponents, former opponents become enemies.
After some time there is no longer a verbal escalation level. So where do you think is this supposed to end? Do you think Trump is doing anybody a favour, including your own country?
I am wrong regarding Trump alone, but not his followers. I used this as an analogy to what has happened before. You pick out one thing and base all your bile on this, disregarding all else.
No more often than you do bud. In fact i do it less often i'd say and certainly with much, much less bile, me being such a good hearted and gentle person to those what know me for real.
Do you think Trump is doing anybody a favour, including your own country?
Well he did pretty much what I wanted him to do these past four years and I want what's best for my country so I guess that answers your question. FWIW at this point I don't care as much whether he wins back the oval office as much as I care about exposing and correcting the weaknesses in our voting system so fight on I say.
Oh and there is no U in favor. Adding extra vowels to words is an elitist plot to subjugate the world by bogging it down with archaic languages. Kinda like mandatory masks. :03:
bstanko6
12-19-20, 04:32 PM
@Buddahaid...
Armed revolt?
The left have been burning cities and killing people for almost a year now!
More people have been killed and battered by left for George Floyd.
Trump attempts to help stop violence but is told to stand down by democrats. The only armed violence has been nurtured by Dems!
Buddahaid
12-19-20, 04:59 PM
And this is what I mean. We are so divided that we see Trump in good and bad lights... hence why I believe something serious is about to occur in this country.
In the words of Count Dooku:
“It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber.”
This reference to using weapons is what I based my statement off of. My apologies if I read that incorrectly but the contest is over unless someone from team Trump wants to change it. Maybe more inflammatory rhetoric from that pardoned criminal Flynn is needed, you know, that bit about getting the armed forces involved in recounting the votes.
UglyMowgli
12-19-20, 07:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwzwRCrHBxU
bstanko6
12-19-20, 08:33 PM
Ok that video was pointless!
Trump never started any of that crap! It was started well before him.
FDR, Obama, Clinton, LBJ... they started all the socialist programs that Trump inherited.
Trump doesn’t control store inventory toilet paper! Those were the lines people were waiting for when COVID first hit. And everything else is because of the riots that burn down all the stores in major cities.
And he’s a poor excuse for a redneck, because if he doesn’t support Trump he’s gonna lose all of his weapons to Biden!
Stop listening to this crap!
Kptlt. Neuerburg
12-19-20, 11:22 PM
:roll:
Buddahaid
12-20-20, 01:05 AM
Did I watch the same video? I don't think there were any direct accusations of anything mentioned.
Catfish
12-20-20, 04:03 AM
No more often than you do bud. In fact i do it less often i'd say and certainly with much, much less bile, me being such a good hearted and gentle person to those what know me for real. ..
Agreed, i too often do that. Oh, and i believe you are just a good hearted person, i just don't know you for real :03:
There are a few things Trump did right, i agree. There are a lot more i do not agree to, but hey i can only watch and wonder.
Oh and there is no U in favor. Adding extra vowels to words is an elitist plot to subjugate the world by bogging it down with archaic languages. Kinda like mandatory masks. :03:
Please, criticiz/sing (AE/BE) errors in written english
1. please write in german then :), second writing favo/ur with an additional U is of course british english and 3. criticiz/sing others of misspelling is strictly reserved for elitist left wingers :O:
It's all good, as someone better than me said you are a good guy.
Note how Trump still refuses to utter a bad word about Russia amid the latest hacking revelation.
Seems the distribution of the vaccine is a bit 'difficult', while Trump and his supporters blame Pfizer the company has told that their is no problem on their side.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/states-pfizer-vaccine-allotments-cut-week-74791269
Trump is butthurt that Pfizer won't play along with his ego self-stroking; when he was trying to make it seem as if he and he alone was/is responsible for any and all advancements in the fight against Covid, he seemingly assumed no one would contradict his stance and claims, but Pfizer wasn't biting; Trump first started griping about Pfizer's vaccine being the result of being part of a US government funded program, which is most definitely not; Pfizer went out of its way to avoid any and all connection with the US government, which I suspect has more to do with simple business strategy than politics: by not taking Govt. money, Pfizer essentially wholly owns the vaccine, it applicable patents, R&D, and any other aspects of its development and manufacture; they have buffered themselves from having the Govt. co-opt their product; simply, put they maximized their ownership and maximized their profit potential...
So, Trump, not being able to use the "we paid for it" card, has taken off on another one of his hissy-fit tantrums and is trying to smear Pfizer; unfortunately for him, the fact the Trump Administration passed on increasing their order for the Pfizer vaccine early on has put a real dent in their smear campaign; its hard to argue Pfizer is 'failing to deliver' when they stupidly passed on the offer in the past, and, given the past behavior and 'tactics' of the Trump administration, may have been an action inspired as a preemptive means of blunting Pfizer's non-compliance with the Trump self-congratulatory game plan; Pfizer developed their product without Govt,. assistance, did so on their own dime, did so effectively, and did so with impressive speed and results; like other entities such as SpaceX, they are showing that US achievements of great national import need not be the product of Govt. assistance/interference; if Pfizer doesn't want to play along with whatever power may be, more power to them...
Trump had nothing to do with it and doesn't deserve to 'coattail' on Pfizer's achievement; "Operation Warp Speed" (OWS) really has nothing to do with the Pfizer effort and, frankly, neither does it have much to do with major aspects of the Covid crisis; OWS functioned mainly as a PR project to boost Trump's image during the development of the vaccines; it provided little to no guidance or structure, particularly since it appeared to be, like most other aspects of the Trumpland, a rather disorganized shambolic mess; in Texan terms, "All hat and no cattle"; whether OWS manages to conduct the distribution and deployment of the vaccines efficaciously remains to be seen, but the recent snit-fit by Trump gives strong doubt...
An analogy used to describe governmental accomplishment of anything is "A camel is a horse designed by a committee"; given the way the last four years of the Trump administration has handled things, maybe it should be amended to "A horses ass designed by a horse's ass"...
Even if the election system was bulletproof and made easy to use the losers would always cry foul. In 2016 even the winner cried foul.
...and, now that self-same Bitcher-In-Chief finds himself upended by how tightened up the election systems have become since 2016; he really doesn't have much grounds since he was the one who alleged and demanded the "corruption" be fixed; well, the State Secretaries, Registrars, and other election officials heard him loud and clear and bent over backward to make the 2018 Presidential Election as clean as possible...
...so, in a sense, Trump did accomplish something in his administration: his own, impossible to sanely deny, defeat...
Note how Trump still refuses to utter a bad word about Russia amid the latest hacking revelation.
I guess he's hoping for a good letter-of-reference from Vlad... :haha:
Really, think of it: the critical cyber-structure of the US government is being systematically attacked over many, many months under Trump's watch and all he can talk about is wild, whacked-out accusations of unsubstantiated voter fraud; it would seem priorities are not a very strong point for Trump... :03:
...then, again, it does bode well for that letter-of-reference... :haha:
Regarding Waco, to me its kind of like the Jamestown Massacre or the Heaven's Gate cult: they were a bunch of people following maniacal, egotist leaders who didn't have their best interests in mind and who blindly accepted false 'teachings' setting them on a path to self-destruction; Jamestown and Heaven's Gate were essentially self-inflicted miseries and deaths, but Waco was a result that was likely going to happen to those followers with or without the US government's hands; Koresh was someone who, if he was going to go, he was taking everyone he could with him; it was only a question of when and how...
...and about the foolishness of Biden 'pardoning' the FBI, as far as I know, no criminal charges were ever filed against the FBI and even if there were Biden couldn't have 'pardoned' them; the right to pardon is exclusively a POTUS right (a Governor's right at the state level) and Biden, until now, has never been President (or Governor), so the idea of him pardoning anyone is beyond silly...
If you want to raise the argument that Biden indirectly 'pardoned' the FBI over Waco, I would point out that he was just one (1) of eighteen (18) Senators on the Senate Waco Committee so his one (1) vote was easily overridden by any two (2) other opposing Senators' votes in the final tally of the findings; I would also point out that the majority party in charge of the committee was the GOP and was headed by its GOP Chairman, Sen. Orin Hatch; further, Sen. Hatch, and a couple of other GOP Senators on the Committee, were actively pursuing a possible Presidential nomination by the GOP in the next election cycle at the time, so the political influences on their own decisions most like likely had more to do with the eventual outcome of that investigation than the voice of one (1), single, solitary, minority party Senator...
<O>
bstanko6
12-20-20, 02:11 PM
VIENNA...
Say what you want about Trump...
Biden likes having kids stroke his leg hairs in the pool!
Go spin that!!!
Mr Quatro
12-20-20, 02:25 PM
Note how Trump still refuses to utter a bad word about Russia amid the latest hacking revelation.
It is becoming a bit obvious that Russia (Putin) has something on Trump :yep:
Something that is very damaging and that he doesn't want anyone to know :oops:
We shall see if they keep their mouths shut soon and very soon :yep:
You know what I like about this cyberwarfare break in?
The excuse from one three letter agency that if given the same chance we would've done
the same thing to them to acquire all of their secrets too. :yep:
Buddahaid
12-20-20, 02:28 PM
VIENNA...
Say what you want about Trump...
Biden likes having kids stroke his leg hairs in the pool!
Go spin that!!!
Prove it.
bstanko6
12-20-20, 03:16 PM
Buddahaid...
Ask and ye shall receive!
Here is your future pedophile president!
https://youtu.be/_-eD2n2dD2Y
It could also mean he is telling these kids moms that he is a reliable husband and a reliable politician.
Markus
bstanko6
12-20-20, 03:38 PM
Yeah sure
bstanko6, you said Tubby Trump started to bring down the deficit, what a joke,lol At the end of his third year in office, the deficit climbed by 5.2 trillion dollars. How is that bringing down the deficit !!:haha::haha:
And Tubby Trump wrote a book called "Art of the Deal" then goes out an gets laid by 2 hookers and pays nearly $250.00 for them to keep quiet about it. That's one heck of a deal!!:har::har::har:
bstanko6
12-20-20, 05:41 PM
Eddie... if that true...
I still take him over a pedophile whose only accomplishment in 47 years was limit the 2nd amendment.
And you are wrong he shaved the debt!
Not even close to $52 billion. Don’t lie for Biden.
https://www.pgpf.org/infographic/the-national-debt-is-now-more-than-27-trillion-what-does-that-mean
And you are wrong he shaved the debt!
Not even close to $52 billion. Don’t lie for Biden.
Your own link says the debt is 27+ trillion. It was just under 20 trillion when Trump became president.
u crank
12-20-20, 06:21 PM
I may be wrong guys but I believe that Congress, and in particular the House of Representatives is in charge of taxing and spending.
bstanko6
12-20-20, 06:54 PM
U Crank... you are right.
But the prez can sign executive orders and such. To spend Money. Not in all things, some require approval.
Obama jacked it up for health care, Bush did after 9/11, his dad for the Persian gulf war etc.
LOL..... a reliable politician is about as common as a unicorn.
The point is the great majority of the deficit is the covid relief. This was supposedly bipartisan legislation iirc so blaming it on Trump now is just wrong.
I may be wrong guys but I believe that Congress, and in particular the House of Representatives is in charge of taxing and spending.
Who signs the bill after it has passed? Our 5.2 trillion increase in the deficit, was signed by Tubby Trump,lol
Kptlt. Neuerburg
12-21-20, 12:33 AM
Buddahaid...
Ask and ye shall receive!
Here is your future pedophile president!
https://youtu.be/_-eD2n2dD2Y
So your "source" is some random Youtuber who posted at ton of videos that anyone has really bothered to watch? Like there's no way that could be a deepfake or a ton of BS. Yet somehow I'm surprised that didn't come from OAN.
bstanko6
12-21-20, 04:06 AM
Neuerburg....
Are you serious? You think that is deepfake?
Either you are a lunatic... which I don’t believe.
Or you are the guy who chants “don’t care who... just vote blue!” Which is a great way of voting. Which I really hope is not true.
Or you are just a solid hardcore democrat that will never open your eyes to the fact that your future president is seriously mentally ill.
You can’t be serious.
I’ll admit that Trump is egotistical, in fact I’ll admit that he’s a poor politician.
He is human, makes mistakes, and says things off the cuff... which is why I like him. Career politicians kiss babies just before taking their candy.
Trump would rather tell the baby to go pound sand so he could get back to work.
This is not deep fake. It’s not edited. If you like I can start posting videos from many different sources of Biden having mental breakdowns... they are everywhere!
Cybermat47
12-21-20, 04:55 AM
I’ll admit that Trump is egotistical, in fact I’ll admit that he’s a poor politician.
He is human, makes mistakes, and says things off the cuff... which is why I like him.;
Imagine if that’s how everyone got jobs.
“I’ll admit he’s a poor pilot, but I like him, so I think he should pilot the space shuttle.”
u crank
12-21-20, 06:09 AM
Who signs the bill after it has passed? Our 5.2 trillion increase in the deficit, was signed by Tubby Trump,lol
That is true but where do you think these bills come from?
Congress is getting ready to pass a $900 billion COVID-19 stimulus package. What do prominent Democrats say about that?
Sen. Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader, said, "This is a good bill. Tonight is a good night. But it is not the end of the story, it is not the end of the job. Anyone who thinks this bill is enough does not know what’s going on in America."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also vowed that more will be done under a Joe Biden presidency. She called the bill a "first step."
President-elect Joe Biden also called the bill "just the beginning."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-see-900b-covid-relief-package-as-just-the-beginning
Is Joe Biden going to do anything different than Donald Trump in regards to spending? Doesn't look like it.
Kptlt. Neuerburg
12-21-20, 09:14 AM
Neuerburg....
Are you serious? You think that is deepfake?
Either you are a lunatic... which I don’t believe.
Or you are the guy who chants “don’t care who... just vote blue!” Which is a great way of voting. Which I really hope is not true.
Or you are just a solid hardcore democrat that will never open your eyes to the fact that your future president is seriously mentally ill.
You can’t be serious.
I’ll admit that Trump is egotistical, in fact I’ll admit that he’s a poor politician.
He is human, makes mistakes, and says things off the cuff... which is why I like him. Career politicians kiss babies just before taking their candy.
Trump would rather tell the baby to go pound sand so he could get back to work.
This is not deep fake. It’s not edited. If you like I can start posting videos from many different sources of Biden having mental breakdowns... they are everywhere! First off, insulting someone whom you've never met is a great way of bring that person around to you way of thinking. Second, I don't believe in something just because it's on the internet. There are plenty of videos that have been faked before and will continue to be faked. I can claim that video to be "fake news" as much as anyone else can claim that it's true. Third is people views of other can and will change over time, I used to like Trump. I thought he was a bold and brash business man. During his time in office however I think he overstepped the line from egotistical to dang close to being insane. But hey lets just ignore the fact that over 300,000 American's have died from a virus that Trump knew about in January while telling the American people everything is fine and under control, let's ignore when Trump was bored at a press conference with members of the American Nurse's Association and he decided to pass out pens while one of them was raising the subject that doctors and nurses where getting PTSD, lets ignore the fact that Trump pardoned his loyalists who broke the law all the while claiming that they where being treated so "unfairly". Even if I ignore all of those things Trump is still in my eyes a horrible president and a horrible person. Call me what you will, I don't really care.
Mr Quatro
12-21-20, 11:16 AM
Is Joe Biden going to do anything different than Donald Trump in regards to spending? Doesn't look like it.
Are you joking u crank ... they (the left radicals) are already saying that they want to give more when they get into power.
Hoping it will help the senate races in Georgia probably :yep:
skidman
12-21-20, 11:49 AM
they (the left radicals) are already saying that they want to give more when they get into power.
Yeah, whatever. The right radicals (at least their orange No. 1) remained silent and moved millions of campaign dollars into their own purse:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/12/10/trump-moved-27-million-of-campaign-donor-money-into-his-business-before-election-day/?sh=689e6fd7ed52
What a disgusting scumbag!
u crank
12-21-20, 11:50 AM
Are you joking u crank ...
I joke a lot. :D
I hope that you are not under the mistaken impression that politicians of both political varieties in Washington have an aversion to spending your money. The only difference is what they want to spend it on.
bstanko6
12-21-20, 01:21 PM
Neuerburg...
Biden is mentally ill. You don’t have to believe me. But if all the videos are deep fakes or lies, then we are talking 30 years someone has been deep faking and lying on Biden.
The man has many times curtailed our rights, stereotyped African Americans, and protected the ATF when they killed children in a compound in Waco.
That’s generations of deep faking my friend. The man is a complete tool to the Democrats and has no brain.
Trump has uncovered years of foul play on foreign economics. Something no other President attempted to do, lest incur heavy penalty from corporate masters.
As far as insulting people, I’m trying not to, but if people absolutely want to stand by Biden I have to question their sources of information. The man is mentally ill, and Kamala will be a terrible, condescending replacement.
206 sovereign nations, 200 of them do not respect women, and she is going to lead us. No thank you.
Mr Quatro
12-21-20, 01:24 PM
Neuerburg...
Biden is mentally ill. You don’t have to believe me. But if all the videos are deep fakes or lies, then we are talking 30 years someone has been deep faking and lying on Biden.
The man has many times curtailed our rights, stereotyped African Americans, and protected the ATF when they killed children in a compound in Waco.
That’s generations of deep faking my friend. The man is a complete tool to the Democrats and has no brain.
Trump has uncovered years of foul play on foreign economics. Something no other President attempted to do, lest incur heavy penalty from corporate masters.
If Biden nuzzles' one more little girls neck in public Harris will become the next POTUS :D
bstanko6
12-21-20, 01:26 PM
That’s the problem Mr Quatro!
Buddahaid
12-21-20, 01:30 PM
You can find YouTube videos of all the internet age presidents making them look foolish. It is proof of nothing.
Mr Quatro
12-21-20, 01:57 PM
You can find YouTube videos of all the internet age presidents making them look foolish. It is proof of nothing.
It's in the hindsight that we voted for the wrong person is the real problem :yep:
President Nixon comes to mind :o
bstanko6
12-21-20, 02:04 PM
This idiot is gonna represent us!!! Ahahahaha!! We deserve to be the laughing stock of the world!!! Loss of jobs overseas, starting new conflicts in other countries, more riots, harnessing distrust of police, enforcing the elimination of rights. Yep we deserve it all!
https://youtu.be/z_wlQZ5N_2k
Kptlt. Neuerburg
12-21-20, 02:17 PM
Neuerburg...
Biden is mentally ill. You don’t have to believe me. But if all the videos are deep fakes or lies, then we are talking 30 years someone has been deep faking and lying on Biden.
The man has many times curtailed our rights, stereotyped African Americans, and protected the ATF when they killed children in a compound in Waco.
That’s generations of deep faking my friend. The man is a complete tool to the Democrats and has no brain.
Trump has uncovered years of foul play on foreign economics. Something no other President attempted to do, lest incur heavy penalty from corporate masters.
As far as insulting people, I’m trying not to, but if people absolutely want to stand by Biden I have to question their sources of information. The man is mentally ill, and Kamala will be a terrible, condescending replacement.
206 sovereign nations, 200 of them do not respect women, and she is going to lead us. No thank you. I never said if I believed you or not, you're entitled to believe whatever you want too but that won't always mean that you or I are correct. But by your logic I could also say that Trump is mentally ill too. What happened at Waco was a total fustercluck and shouldn't of happened the way it did but talking about it now won't change what happened then as the saying goes hindsight is always 20/20. Now I can't tell if you are making the assumption that I standby Biden or not, and frankly he was far from my pick for president but since both parties always seem to pick the old white guy my opinion doesn't matter one cent to them anyways.
bstanko6
12-21-20, 02:21 PM
Neuerburg...
I agree with you, but we have hind sight. It’s right in front of us and still pick a complete criminal to lead us!
We deserve every horrible thing coming in the next 4 years. I’m excited to see how much he can and Kamala can destroy before they leave
bstanko6
12-21-20, 03:06 PM
The more you Joe!
https://youtu.be/3NiQZI-3KVI
Buddahaid
12-21-20, 03:12 PM
Are you spamming the thread now?
Mr Quatro
12-21-20, 03:29 PM
Are you spamming the thread now?
Come on man ... maybe he's an out of work shut in that wants to air his mind :hmmm:
I just like checking in to see if I can add five words :D
Neuerburg...
I agree with you, but we have hind sight. It’s right in front of us and still pick a complete criminal to lead us!
We deserve every horrible thing coming in the next 4 years. I’m excited to see how much he can and Kamala can destroy before they leave
You could always go to Canada for the nest 4 years,lol There you can preach all the Alex Jones Bulls---t you want,lol
But hey lets just ignore the fact that over 300,000 American's have died from a virus that Trump knew about in January while telling the American people everything is fine and under control
He was just saying the same thing that the rest of the government (including Fauci) was saying at the time. When the next 300k die after Biden takes over are you going to blame Trump for that too?
Are you spamming the thread now?
I don't see it as spam but rather an illuminating view into the war mongering, plagiarist, pedophile, corrupted insider that the Democrats have cheated into office.
bstanko6
12-21-20, 04:18 PM
Thank you August.
I appreciate that. We need to communicate as a people in this country.
And discuss what we are getting in the future. You guys want Biden...?
Fine. But you may not like what you are gonna get.
Catfish
12-21-20, 04:42 PM
He was just saying the same thing that the rest of the government (including Fauci) was saying at the time. When the next 300k die after Biden takes over are you going to blame Trump for that too?
The whole thing is now out of control, and regardless who follows will have a hard time to correct the errors.
Reading between the lines after Biden had won the American election here in Denmark and in Sweden was that God has sent a savior to the American people.
Markus
Cybermat47
12-21-20, 06:41 PM
This idiot is gonna represent us!!! Ahahahaha!! We deserve to be the laughing stock of the world!!!
You say that as if Trump hasn’t already turned the US into a laughing stock.
Buddahaid
12-21-20, 07:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gG6BJSX4jw
bstanko6
12-21-20, 08:23 PM
Trump hasn’t started another conflict, was allowed into North Korea, brought troops home, increased our economy, forced China to pay fair share, assisted minority colleges financially, and has never been challenged by a foreign power.
I would say Trump is not a laughing stock.
Biden gets in... Syria watch your back!
Buddahaid
12-21-20, 08:36 PM
Biden is in.
Cybermat47
12-21-20, 08:41 PM
Trump hasn’t started another conflict,
How many has he ended with a US victory?
was allowed into North Korea,
Trying to make friends with a brutal communist dictatorship that he'd just been trading barbs with doesn't exactly inspire my confidence.
brought troops home,
Which left US allies (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-u-s-officials-criticize-trump-s-decision-abandon-kurds-n1084156) vulnerable to attack, damaging US interests.
forced China to pay fair share,
If you say so, but from here (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/trump-and-china-force-australia-to-secure-its-defence-closer-to-home-20201030-p56a8h.html) it looks like our closest ally has become unreliable while our biggest national security threat since WWII grows stronger.
increased our economy... assisted minority colleges financially,
That's good.
and has never been challenged by a foreign power.
Here (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/09/north-korea-insults-trump-heedless-erratic-old-man) is North Korea challenging Trump.
I would say Trump is not a laughing stock.
I would say that he is, based on how most of us foreigners are laughing at him for his ego and ridiculous behaviour.
bstanko6
12-21-20, 09:09 PM
Ok... so you are a foreigner, great.
If you lived here you would feel the power of capitalism and the benefits of a strong leader like Trump harnessing that power.
But most countries don’t have that power.
Socialism and communism sucks!
Buddahaid
12-21-20, 09:25 PM
Well I'm not a foreigner and I mostly felt embarrassed my president was the court fool, and like I've said before, I wasn't opposed to his policy in general, but opposed to him as the person to carry it out.
Cybermat47
12-21-20, 10:24 PM
Ok... so you are a foreigner, great.
Yes, that's why I have 'Location: Australia' under my username.
If you lived here you would feel the power of capitalism and the benefits of a strong leader like Trump harnessing that power.
But most countries don’t have that power.
Socialism and communism sucks!
Weren't you complaining about capitalist media companies a few posts ago? And you just praised Trump for putting government money into minority colleges, which sounds more like a socialist policy than a capitalist one.
Also, you're acting as if literally all of western Europe isn't capitalist. Even Scandinavian countries are just social democrat - i.e. capitalism with limits placed on it by the government.
Maybe if the US government placed some more limits on capitalist media companies, spreading fake news wouldn't be so profitable? :hmmm:
bstanko6
12-21-20, 10:50 PM
Correct media is capitalist. But the push socialist agendas. That is an issue here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Jvf1vLZzE
:hmm2:
Catfish
12-22-20, 07:24 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/newsmax-airs-election-fraud-correction-video-lawsuit-dominion-smartmatic-2020-12?r=DE&IR=T
bstanko6
12-22-20, 07:35 AM
The funny thing about this debate between Trump and Biden...
A Trump supporter usually names several reasons shy he is a great president. The things he has done for us that we have felt over the last 4 years.
Biden supporters name all the bad things Trump has done in the last 4 years.
And that I see is legit. Every president have had their good and bad. And I can’t argue that.
But there is one thing Biden supporters never do...
Tell us what Biden will do better! It’s a mystery.
He talks about raising taxes during a pandemic : BAD
Talks about limiting the 2nd amendment: BAD (even the Aussies can understand that issue)
Talks about shutting down the country even with the vaccine out: BAD
Talks about allowing Iran, a country who hates the US and prays to destroy us, to continue their nuclear program: BAD
He will negotiate with other countries but speaks like Porky Pig, but I can understand Porky Pig better: REALLY BAD
Wants his heroin addict son Hunter to hold office in his administration: BAD BAD BAD
Those are just a few things.
Here is my question, and it’s a serious one, I’m looking for a serious answer...
What will Biden do that will make the country better? And please provide a source. I get why people hate Trump but please explain Joe and his plans?
Thank you
Skybird
12-22-20, 07:57 AM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/22/politics/donald-trump-white-house-countdown/index.html
A psychopath trapped inside the bunker at the centre of lunacy. He should not be in the Oval Office, but a locked high security room inside a mentla asylum. There is no cure for personality disorder like on display in Trump's case. His inactivity and carelessness murders Americans. He is a clear and present danger to the common good, the interest of the nation, and the life and health of millions of its citizens.
bstanko6
12-22-20, 08:20 AM
Skybird...
Do you have anything better than CNN? Not to be funny but they hate trump, are biased, and do not explain how Biden is a better choice.
Do you have a source that explains in great detail how Biden will be a better choice?
u crank
12-22-20, 08:26 AM
His inactivity and carelessness murders Americans.
Although I am not a big fan of President Trump and especially his behavior post election, this is simply not true.
...all 50 states independently directed and implemented their own pandemic policies. In every case, governors and local officials were responsible for on-the-ground choices—every business limit, school closing, shelter-in-place order and mask requirement. No policy on any of these issues was set by the federal government, except those involving federal property and employees.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-pandemic-of-misinformation-11608570640?mod=djemalertNEWS
.. the federal government’s role in the pandemic has been grossly mischaracterized by the media and their Democratic allies. That distortion has obscured several significant successes, while undermining the confidence of ordinary Americans. Federal financial support and directives enabled the development of a massive, state-of-the-art testing capacity and produced billions of dollars of personal protective equipment. Federal agencies met all requests for supplemental medical personnel and hospital-bed capacity. Officials in the Health and Human Services Department have told me there are no unmet requests for extra resources.
Skybird
12-22-20, 08:33 AM
Skybird...
Do you have anything better than CNN? Not to be funny but they hate trump, are biased, and do not explain how Biden is a better choice.
Do you have a source that explains in great detail how Biden will be a better choice?
Deflection.
Skybird
12-22-20, 08:47 AM
Although I am not a big fan of President Trump and especially his behavior post election, this is simply not true.
It is true, and I am neither the only one nor the first saying so. His handling of the pandemic, his deliberate refusal to adequately start promotihjg thigns that were necessary while there was time, has motivated a huge inappropriateness and unwillingness both amognst politicians and ordinary people to behave and to do what has to be done, with the consequences of exploding infection rates. Many more people than was inevitable died as a consequences of this, and Trump is the driving, motivating factor behind this. His contzempt for health and life concerns of WH staff and guards are well-documented, his behavioural orders that maximised exposiiton risks and ifneciton risks, on so many occasions he put people needlessly at risk just to get his super-dooper-one-Trump-show set up on stage.
Violaton of duty of care, refusal to work, negligent assault, negligent slaughter.
Add to this his very special way of never showing any empathy or care for the victims left behind in his wake, even offending them or offending deceased who died due to his inaction and carelessness or on other opportunties in other contexts when fighting for their country and makign then biggest saqcifice for it. He mocked them, and had slur words for them. He is dirt by character, and he shows it and he is damn poroud of not beign better than just this. Such personality structures are known, in earlier diagnostic manuals they simply were called "psychopaths". Today trhey make complicated mind gymnstaics and distroted conceptions of it, I know I know, but I dont care, some detials int he old diagnstical manuals had their charms working much better than the modern versions often driven by political correctness and hypersenssitivity to not offend anyone.
Those politicians, may they be in his inner circle or may they be just members governing federla states: those who defend him, stayed loyal to him, listened to him, helped to deflect any legitimate claim against him, carried out his demands, realised his expectations, are not any better than him. And quite some govenror followed the exmaples set by Trump, or obeyed his demands to do this and that not regarding the pandemic, they served him by submissively fulfilling his expecations of not caring for the pandemic.
"I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run." - Alexis de Tocqueville
Trump's stink and brain poison will stay around Washington and even in the american provinces for many years to come. Palin and the tea party paved the way, and this indicates that this unhrealthy spiorit sees a fertole ground int he republican poarty. From the tea poarty over Trump to - who comes next? Somebody will come next, and it might become even worse with that one. I personally doubgt that the Republican party actually will ever be "Republican" again. The Trump mob currently has it in full control and hijack, and almost nobody, only a very few, dare to speak out against this. Spineless cowards putting their career interests before the nation's good, being anythign than traditionally reoublican. The party should be renamed into "Trumpists".
Deflection.Are you going to actually answer bstanoko6's question, or will you continue with the "I hate trump" rhetoric?
bstanko6
12-22-20, 09:03 AM
Thank you MaDef!
This is what I mean!!!!
Skybird
12-22-20, 09:05 AM
More deflection. Bye.
Catfish
12-22-20, 09:08 AM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/19/politics/trump-oval-office-meeting-special-counsel-martial-law/index.html
bstanko6
12-22-20, 09:19 AM
Deflection!!! I’m about to laugh out loud like Tucker Carlson!!!
It’s a simple question...
What plan does Biden have that outshines Trumps achievements?
I’m listening.
I don’t want to hear about “Orange man bad!”
I am handing the forum over to anyone that can give specific, comprehensible, plans Joe has to do good in this country... and unification isn’t one of them. The Dems have divided us for years.
I’m listening.
Cybermat47
12-22-20, 09:43 AM
What plan does Biden have that outshines Trumps achievements?
I don’t like him, but he seems like he’ll be a more reliable ally for us.
Plus, the recent rise of white nationalism in Australia seems linked to Trump’s success; it’s undeniable that he has their support (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/trump-s-refusal-to-disavow-white-supremacy-should-come-as-a-warning-to-australia-20201001-p5617q.html). Biden, meanwhile, has at least publicly condemned white nationalist groups (I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was privately racist, though - again, I don’t actually like him). With America having immense cultural influence over Australia, that could benefit us.
Mr Quatro
12-22-20, 09:45 AM
Many Americans could receive $600 stimulus payments as soon as next week, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Monday.
Okay that does it ... I'm sick and tired of the US Government wasting my tax dollars on just about anything they can think of that never works (except nuclear submarines of course).
But I'll be dog gone if I will send the stimulus check back :D
Lets see now should I get a new shotgun or power inverter generator in case of a big snow storm? :hmmm:
bstanko6
12-22-20, 09:57 AM
Always get a shotgun Quatro... ask Biden!
And Cybermat...
Neo nazis and white supremecists unfortunately have the 1st amendment right here.
Obama did a lot of damage against police officers and created a lot of white shaming while in office.
While he was right in many aspects, he began a terrible crusade against white people, especially white cops, white gun owners, and police agencies that never even had an issue with race by sending in the DOJ and ruining lives.
Now the F$&@tard racists are jumping on the Trump train because they feel Biden will cater to minorities and of course Harris is black... so yeah there is that!
u crank
12-22-20, 10:01 AM
It is true, and I am neither the only one nor the first saying so. His handling of the pandemic, his deliberate refusal to adequately start promotihjg thigns that were necessary while there was time, has motivated a huge inappropriateness and unwillingness both amognst politicians and ordinary people to behave and to do what has to be done, with the consequences of exploding infection rates.
Did you read the article I linked? I'm guessing you didn't. Can you dispute any of the statements made in it? Well you would have to read it first.
Those politicians, may they be in his inner circle or may they be just members governing federla states: those who defend him, stayed loyal to him, listened to him, helped to deflect any legitimate claim against him, carried out his demands, realised his expectations, are not any better than him.
It wasn't the Trump administration that ordered nursing homes in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Michigan to accept people in those facilities often without adequate testing. Those states all have Democratic Governors. You need to do research before you post. Again I will tell you that the Federal government does not tell states what to do. What part of that do you not understand?
The Trump mob currently has it in full control and hijack, and almost nobody, only a very few, dare to speak out against this. Spineless cowards putting their career interests before the nation's good, being anythign than traditionally reoublican. The party should be renamed into "Trumpists".
Such hysteria. Well get over it man. What will you have to complain about after Jan. 20? It will be interesting to see if you have the same critical analysis of the incoming Biden administration. I can hardly wait.
Mr Quatro
12-22-20, 10:25 AM
Again I will tell you that the Federal government does not tell states what to do. What part of that do you not understand?
With this Covid-19 mutation plus the continuing rise in cases and Joe Biden's mandate for mask wearing :yep:
Do you think this will continue? :hmmm:
bstanko6
12-22-20, 10:26 AM
U Crank... you can’t get through to these guys. It’s all “Orange man bad.”
The Fore Fathers has it in the constitution that only land owners could vote back in the day. I see why now.
You want people who are vested in the country to vote for the greater good. Not through feelings.
People are voting for weed, transgender rights, and because things make them feel offended.
We need to vote for the country. The drive behind it. Not utopia.
Now, now according to my friends who is on the left(and between the lines in our MSM news coverage on US politics)
You should be extremely happy, Trump will soon be gone and a savior have been sent to you.
Markus
u crank
12-22-20, 10:35 AM
With this Covid-19 mutation plus the continuing rise in cases and Joe Biden's mandate for mask wearing :yep:
Do you think this will continue? :hmmm:
Joe Biden can mandate mask wearing and it is a good suggestion. But he will have no power to inforce it. End of story.
Re: Trump not being responsible for the massive deficit increase, i.e., "its the pandemic's fault" ; has everyone forgotten those huge tax cuts (gift to the wealthy, like Trump) enacted at Trump's behest? Those cuts were predicted, by respected and rational economists, to have a major negative impact on the deficit and the economy and, man, did they ever:
U.S. Deficit Skyrockets 26 Percent Since 2018, Economists Blame Trump Tax Cuts for Massive Spending Gap --
https://www.newsweek.com/us-federal-deficit-skyrockets-trump-tax-cuts-blamed-defense-spending-gap-revenues-treasury-1467936
Please note the above article is dated Oct 2019, months before Covid reared its ugly head and its affects on the economy were felt; Trump had already failed in his so-called economic plan; but, hey, when he was pushing those cuts , he did say the cuts "would pay for themselves"...
...just like Mexico paid for the wall, China paid for the tariffs, Covid would disappear in April ("like magic)", disappear in the summer ("the heat will stop it"), etc., etc., ...
The Art of the Deal book? Trump didn't write any of it; the guy who ghost-wrote it for him did all the work and, other, than slapping his name on the cover, Trump has zip to do with it; Trump's big literary and economic advice tome was, like him and all he's done, nothing but a fraud and sham designed only to aggrandize himself and part people from their money under false pretenses; even the publishers of his book, when asked if Trump did, indeed write the book, himself for them, laughed and responded "He didn't even write a postcard for us..."...
Its funny how, if you go looking for info on the sources of the anti-Biden YT drivel, you just can't find anything at all; I mean, if you look up say, CNN, or Fox News, or Bloomberg, or AP, or any of the others, their is a wealth of info and data on who they are, where they are from, their history, and more; but for the NNN "Nano News Network", or ODN, you just can't tell who they are, where they get their "facts", who is responsible for their reportage, etc.; even Fox News is having to swallow crow; they just recently made a large seven-figure payout to avoid having their news host deposed in a defamation case when they were faced with the unavoidable demand to provide proofs of their claims; and,in the election reportage they made over the past months, Fox is now very publicly retracting and refute some of the reportage they made under the threat of several defamation suits from the makers and suppliers of the voting machines; in one of the instances, Fox claimed a vendor had been involved in a massive, nationwide vote manipulation scheme involving the vendor's system when, in fact, the vendor's only customer in the 2020 Election was the County of Los Angeles, something any responsible, reputable and ethical news outlet would have checked before making broad claims; they may yet be sued and it doesn't help them much when someone like their own Sean Hannity proclaimed live, on the air, that reports on his show are not vetted (fact checked) before they are broadcast; if you want to believe Fox, more power to you; if you want to believe Fox, more power to you; if you want to believe the NYT, more power to you; ; if you want to believe the Washington Times, more power to you; just try to remember its best when you do your own checking and cross-checking and don't swallow anyone "facts" as the "gospel truth"...
I liked that Spitting Imae clip; recently, I have been musing over how some very seemingly absurd scenes in movies and TV have echoes in the whole Trump "I don't wanna go, Wahhh!!' baby tantrum; the whole Trump wanting to take power even when he's lost reminded me of this scene from Down Periscope, because, ya know, Trump keeps saying "America loves me":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2_4cppDZQA
...maybe Trump's departure can be dealt with the same way as Lt. Pascal's exit fro the sub:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTGnIeg9srI
I wonder how Trump is going to handle his pardon? Will he pardon himself and prolong inflicting his misery on the US with a drawn out SCOTUS constitutional case? Or will he do something like wait til, say, a day or two before he has to leave office, resign, and get Pence to pardon him, a la Ford/Nixon? If he pardons himself, he'll very most likely lose with SCOTUS, but he'll keep getting the attention he so desperately craves, but he'd lose his immunity from Federal prosecution for the many pending criminal cases against him. If he lets Pence pardon him, he''l be safe from Federal prosecution (but not state prosecution), but he'll have much lesser limelight and will have the added stigma of being the second POTUS to resign to avoid Federal prosecution, something that will only add salt to the wound of being one of the few one-term incumbents to lose reelection, and to lose in such an ignominious fashion. I guess it will boil down to just how badly he wants to wound his ego and just how badly he wants to try and stay out of prison...
<O>
bstanko6
12-22-20, 11:05 AM
Again...
Present a Biden plan! Again!!!
What genius policy will Biden put in place that is better? Mask wearing!?!?!
You got nothing Vienna!!!
Vienna at least do this for me...
Pound your chest like 3 times and shout Orange Man Bad!
Take the red pill dude!
Armistead
12-22-20, 11:14 AM
Actually the Feds took in record taxes after the Trump tax cuts, course the problem was record spending created larger deficits, but that's all parties. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 11:17 AM
We'll just have to wait and see. I gave Trump a chance even though I didn't like him from before his campaign. He failed to make me change my mind and simply made me want him out ASAP.
Torvald Von Mansee
12-22-20, 11:24 AM
https://i.redd.it/z10nwon11z561.jpg
Catfish
12-22-20, 11:26 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/newsmax-airs-election-fraud-correction-video-lawsuit-dominion-smartmatic-2020-12?r=DE&IR=T
I confess I do not know this Biden what he exactly stands for or what goal he has for the American.
But shouldn't you give him a benefit of a doubt. he has not even taken place in The White House and already some of you condemn him.
My 10 cent
Markus
bstanko6
12-22-20, 12:09 PM
Mapuc...
He’s been a 47 year politician. He did nothing but put a gun ban in place, creep little girls out, allow ATF to kill children with no penalty, and was Obama’s stooge VP, who did.., you guessed it, nothing.
He has a record of nothing.
He doesn’t deserve the job, and should be condemned.
u crank
12-22-20, 12:09 PM
I guess it will boil down to just how badly he wants to wound his ego and just how badly he wants to try and stay out of prison...
I don't think that is going to be a problem. Oh I know the thought of Trump in prison is a TDS wet dream but I really don't think there is any chance of it happening. When the United States of America starts putting ex presidents in jail it is banana republic time. What's next .. the firing squad?
Politicians may express a passionate hatred for each other in public but in reality they are all members of the same club. And that club has some unwritten rules.
I would suggest that of all the polticians in America today the one who would most likely not want to see Trump prosecuted for any crime is your President in waiting, one Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.
bstanko6
12-22-20, 12:28 PM
Hahaha!!!
Trump in prison!!! Ahahaha!
Hilary Clinton ignored 2 weeks of emails warning her that an attack would occur in Benghazi!
Then when she is caught, destroys the evidence. I guess they forgot to put her in prison after people were murdered!! AHAHAHAHA!!!!!
And Trump is going away for what??? Money? Taxes?
::reinacts Fezic in princess bride and laughs histerically until dead::
Wow...
When someone like Pat Robertson says you're living in an alternate reality, that really saying something. It looks like even the evangelicals have seen the handwriting on the wall, have read it, and are dumping Trump, too:
Televangelist Pat Robertson says Trump lives in an 'alternate reality' and should move on from election loss --
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/politics/pat-robertson-trump-2020-election/index.html
Televangelist Pat Robertson, a prominent conservative backer of Donald Trump, said Monday that the President is living in an "alternate reality" and should "move on" from his 2020 election loss.
"With all his talent, and the ability to raise money and draw large crowds, the President still lives in an alternate reality," Robertson said Monday on "The 700 Club." "He really does. People say, 'Well he lies about this, that and the other.' But he isn't lying. To him, that's the truth."
Robertson -- who prayed for Trump's win in 2020 and once suggested that whoever is "revolting" against Trump is "revolting against what God's plan is for America" -- joins a growing list of prominent conservatives who are telling Trump it's time to accept his clear election loss. In particular, Robertson is a uniquely influential figure among evangelicals, a critical part of the President's base.
...
He also cast doubt on Trump's flailing efforts to overturn the election results.
"I had prayed and hoped that there might be some better solution, but I think it's all over," said Robertson, who previously said he was told by God that Trump would win the 2020 election.
"I think the Electoral College has spoken. I think the Biden corruption has not totally been brought to fruition, but it doesn't seem to be affecting the Electoral College and I don't think the Supreme Court is going to move in to do anything and I think we're going to see a President (Joe) Biden, and I also think we'll be seeing as President Kamala Harris not too long after the inauguration of President Biden."
This is indeed a turning point; not only is Robertson saying this publicly, he did so, in person, on his own evangelical TV network, which has a potential of millions of viewers...
What next? Hannity turning on Trump? If someone had asked me who would be likely to dump Trump, I would have never picked Robertson...
Curiouser and curiouser...
<O>
Mr Quatro
12-22-20, 02:12 PM
Wow! vienna pays attention to CBN and Pat Robertson (90 years old by the way)?
Pat also prophesied that Trump would win the National election and that it would trigger huge riots and then there would be two (2) attempts on his life
Of course none of that has happened ... yet :o
Yes it is strange that he would now turn on President Trump :hmmm:
Thank you for bringing it up :yep:
I have decided to just treat him like any other rich billionaire after he leaves office (if he really is a billionaire that is)
I do thank Trump for a stronger military and better Israel ties :up:
bstanko6
12-22-20, 02:18 PM
Just because someone starts a church doesn’t mean he is the last say in all things politics!
Red pill dude!
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 02:32 PM
Just because someone is a failed real estate tycoon with no moral compass doesn't make him a good president.
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 02:36 PM
I suppose getting a BJ from an intern in the office is not immoral?
:hmmm:
I'd think you'd say the only wrong done was getting caught.
Wow! vienna pays attention to CBN and Pat Robertson (90 years old by the way)?
Pat also prophesied that Trump would win the National election and that it would trigger huge riots and then there would be two (2) attempts on his life
Of course none of that has happened ... yet :o
Yes it is strange that he would now turn on President Trump :hmmm:
Thank you for bringing it up :yep:
I have decided to just treat him like any other rich billionaire after he leaves office (if he really is a billionaire that is)
I do thank Trump for a stronger military and better Israel ties :up:
You'd be surprised at what I do read, watch, and listen to; as I've pointed out, just relying on the single word of a single viewpoint on important matters most often leads to being manipulated rather than informed. Get all the details and verifiable fact(s) available, of all viewpoints, and then making a considered, critical assessment is the most productive way of reaching decisions; simply gainsaying without substance or accepting and parroting back a single narrow view doesn't get to the truth...
Not everyone or everything is always nor are they always wrong...
It is indeed surprising to hear someone like Robertson speak out as he did, particularly in such a direct fashion and about some things he so readily embraced before; it must have been quite difficult to speak out as he did; I do give him props for having the courage to speak his mind, even if he might get a lot of blow-back form the Trump camp and and even some of Robertson's own followers...
I do agree with Robertson that the GOP would be better off if Trump didn't try to run in 2024; and, I also agree about Haley: I said Trump would have been better off having Haley as a running mate instead of Pence, and I actually thought Haley would have made a better candidate for the GOP in 2016 instead of Trump...
It will be interesting to see what fallout might come from this, indeed...
Trump is now doing what he does best: milking the rubes for their cash in a long con; he has ostensibly been out and about raising money for a challenge to overturn the legitimate election results and his Trumpettes have been pouring in the money by the bucketfuls; however, if you read the fine print in the solicitation(s), you will see that the money donated is actually being divvied up between a Trump PAC and the RNC, with almost all the first dollars going to those two entities; the fact that the RNC is getting such a very big cut of Trump's "election defense" fundraising may account for the GOP's great reluctance to put a final kibosh on the Trump tenure -- they are loathe to kill the cash cow...
The portion of the cash going to the Trump PAC has been taking on a very curious journey of its own; the Trump family/organization has set up a shell corporation and is funneling the funds into it; the money is being shielded from being scrutinized and from Trump being held accountable for its uses; at this point, it seems the bulk of the shell company's payouts have been to Trump, his family members, and associates for their own personal uses, not for, as his donors were told, the pursuit of keeping Trump in office...
All in all, it seems just another case of Trump scamming people for his own gain; and the shell company ploy smacks of a money laundering scheme such as used by white-collar criminals, organized crime, and drug cartels...
Just saying...
<O>
Mr Quatro
12-22-20, 03:11 PM
I suppose getting a BJ from an intern in the office is not immoral?
:hmmm:
I'd think you'd say the only wrong done was getting caught.
Good point Jeff :yep:
Welcome back :up:
I suppose getting a BJ from an intern in the office is not immoral?
:hmmm:
I'd think you'd say the only wrong done was getting caught.
...and having affairs with pornstars (just after one's own wife has given birth) and sundry other women, and then engaging in an illegal, unethical coverup and payoff is actually moral?...
I'd think you'd say the only wrong done was getting caught. Remember, the intern in the office was a non-criminal act; the payoff and coverup and the misuse of funds and the attempted obfuscation of the the transaction are actual, prosecutable crimes; further, Trump, even if he gets a Federal pardon for his actions will still be liable for prosecution since he committed or caused to be committed those crimes in a state (NY) where the state campaign funding laws do apply and for which Federal pardon hold no sway in the state courts. Getting caught for Trump, will be a "wrong' for him, but a "right" in therms of the criminal jjustice system...
Oh, and by the way, Clinton hasn't been POTUS for twenty years, so what he did really has little to no bearing on what is currently being done in the White Hose; unless some actual crime can be charged against Clinton for what he did and is actually prosecutable, I guess we'll just have to be content with dealing with the actual, prosecutable criminality in the current Oval Office...
Sorry its not quite working out your way...
<O>
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 03:14 PM
I suppose getting a BJ from an intern in the office is not immoral?
:hmmm:
I'd think you'd say the only wrong done was getting caught.
Hmmm, I didn't know Clinton was in office or the president elect.
https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/LTRkWbKzKbCvZElfsHAzaw--~B/Zmk9c3RyaW07aD0yOTY7cT05NTt3PTYxMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaH lvbg--/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-12/aebb91e0-4451-11eb-bf6f-3572e8fc8fc7.cf.webp
"My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu, Mitch McConnell!! I block you feeble fist!! Taste the bitterness of Electoral defeat!!!"... :haha:
<O>
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 03:33 PM
Don't matter who is in Office or President-Elect.
Past or present.
You brought up Morals and crimes. Not me.
Seeing as you explain away past moral, um, miss deeds?
What you whining about now?
You honestly thing there is a fiber of morality left in anyone in Washington?
Or in any of the States Offices of power?
You are deluded! Everyone of them would give you a BJ if it reaped them a benefit!
At one time. The Office of the President of the United States responsibility AND actions was consider sacrosanct!
That went away along time ago but now any departure from that is used by Parties to just cause problems.
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 03:37 PM
Sure, let's start talking about Taft then.
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 03:44 PM
Ok. Let's do it. You want to go back to when SHTF that's fine.
Your so sure Trump is a Criminal and seem to ignore the others?
Taft is an easy target so I could have read tea leaves and see you pick him.
:har:
Why not Nixon or the Kennedy's?
Those are more recent.
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 03:46 PM
I believe my position is he is not fit for office.
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 03:47 PM
And my position is none of those that ran are fit for Office.
And I don't just believe that. I know.
Do you even know what believe means?
Don't matter who is in Office or President-Elect.
Past or present.
You brought up Morals and crimes. Not me.
Seeing as you explain away past moral, um, miss deeds?
What you whining about now?
You honestly thing there is a fiber of morality left in anyone in Washington?
Or in any of the States Offices of power?
You are deluded! Everyone of them would give you a BJ if it reaped them a benefit!
At one time. The Office of the President of the United States responsibility AND actions was consider sacrosanct!
That went away along time ago but now any departure from that is used by Parties to just cause problems.
So your answer to the immorality is to bemoan your impotence to change and to allow it to continue unabated and continue to stand, rather than make any attempt at all to try and curb it? How whiningly pathetic and small...
The Ides of March, Donny-Boy, the Ides of March...
Trump turns on Pence as Lincoln Project ad ‘gets in his head’, report says --
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-turns-pence-lincoln-project-181555654.html
...the ad in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxBPqCHFCcc
Trump better be careful: unless he really does plan to commit seppuku by self-pardoning, he's gonna need to stay on Pence's good side if he doesn't want to do a perp walk into a Federal Courthouse...
<O>
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 03:54 PM
your impotence
<O>
I'm not impotent.
Wanna see?
:har:
I believe, as a statement, is like saying, "I believe in God".
Who in fact is a non proven entity with non proven powers.
I can believe in the Power Rangers but what are the chances they fix any thing?
I could add I believe your misguided in your believes. Does that make any sense when you really look at it?
I think the question here is:
Is there an American politician who are fit for the White House ?
Markus
Jeff-Groves
12-22-20, 04:08 PM
I think the question here is:
Is there an American politician who are fit for the White House ?
Markus
If you see that a person is a PROFESSIONAL Politician?
Then I'd say NO!
Millionaires or Billionaires win seats.
If they are not rich themselves? Millionaires or Billionaires back them.
Everyone has a price.
You only believe they don't. And I told you about belief!
bstanko6
12-22-20, 04:15 PM
Buddahaid...
no one is fit for office. Every president makes mistakes. That’s just human.
But picking a guy who is mentally ill, and a poor 47 year political career????
So if you need a surgeon you pick a plumber?
Onkel Neal
12-22-20, 06:27 PM
I do agree with Robertson that the GOP would be better off if Trump didn't try to run in 2024; and, I also agree about Haley: I said Trump would have been better off having Haley as a running mate instead of Pence, and I actually thought Haley would have made a better candidate for the GOP in 2016 instead of Trump...
<O>
I'll say it right now, if my fellow conservatives buy into Trump again in 2023 and make him the nominee over better Republicans, I will vote for anyone on the dem ticket.
Fair warning, friends, don't do it.
Armistead
12-22-20, 06:33 PM
I think the question here is:
Is there an American politician who are fit for the White House ?
Markus
I think Dan Crenshaw is the one to watch for and I think he'd win. The ladies love him...
bstanko6
12-22-20, 08:54 PM
Oh Neal...
You’ve lost your Christmas spirit!
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 09:07 PM
Oh Neal...
You’ve lost your Christmas spirit!
I thought the exorcism was January 20th?
Ba-dum Tishhh.......:Kaleun_Wink:
I think Dan Crenshaw is the one to watch for and I think he'd win. The ladies love him...
I think that's a pretty astute observation. I've listened to a lot of his interviews like the one with Joe Rogan and he comes across as extremely smart and level headed. I could vote for him.
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 09:39 PM
On Waco.
1:16:51
https://www.c-span.org/video/?66289-1/waco-investigation-day-1-part-2
bstanko6
12-22-20, 09:44 PM
Oh Buddahaid...
I will not be getting you a hammer and sickle for Christmas!
Buddahaid
12-22-20, 09:53 PM
It's alright Comrade, I'll have another drink of Vodka to celebrate. :Kaleun_Salute:
At Waco it was stupid to confront those people they way they did. It just confirmed the Branch Davidians paranoia. It didn't have to be like that. They could have picked Koresh up without a fuss when he went on one of his numerous trips to town but instead they opted for a rather foolhardy frontal assault that started the entire tragic seige. Just like at Ruby Ridge or the Elián González fiasco, the feds tend to hit with an overly big hammer and it seems to be more about displaying power than resolving a situation.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 12:34 AM
You're right, but it took both sides acting in a black and white attitude for Waco to have happened.
It's clear to me that David Koresh was priming his following for a showdown, yes as corny as that sounds, a showdown with the FBI in the early nineties.
That, in itself, doesn't excuse the FBI for having over reacted, but it does show that the story isn't really all that black and white.
By the way, I'm still searching for Biden's roll in this matter. Please point me to it.
Skybird
12-23-20, 06:46 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-california-representative-survived-jonestown-and-says-trumpers-have-definitely-drunk-the-kool-aid?ref=scroll
Saying this myself since long time, too. Did not had Jonestown on mind, but the parrallels to sectarian cults in general are stunning. Doesn'T take to be a psychologist to see that. Everybody with open eyes can see it.
Descend into madness - the former Republican party. Now a gang of radicalised Trumpers, and accomplices in conspiracy and crime.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trump-losing-his-mind/617446/
"Toxic narcissism" - good characterisation, though it does the brutal consequences no justice.
Before bedtime I watched about 30 min CNN.
What I saw made me a little nervous. Said to myself CNN is very biased when it comes to Trump. So hopefully most of it is exaggerated.
It was something with Mr Trump had gone mad and he and his stab was sitting and make ideas on how to remain in charge.
Markus
Mr Quatro
12-23-20, 11:25 AM
It's not over till the democrats say the rich have to pay the stimulus back :yep:
Democrats will try to approve $2000 direct checks Thursday
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-will-try-to-approve-242000-direct-checks-thursday/ar-BB1cb4m3?ocid=BingNews
House Democrats will bring forward a bill to provide direct checks of $2,000 to individuals on Thursday, after President Trump called on Congress to amend a newly passed coronavirus relief bill to increase direct payments to $2,000, with $4,000 for a couple. Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House will try to pass the bill by unanimous consent — meaning that only one Republican member opposing the proposal needs to be present in order to block the bill.
Mr. Trump said in a video posted to Twitter on Tuesday that he would not sign the $900 billion relief package passed by both houses of Congress on Monday.
Okay with me, but if even one republican in the house disagrees it won't pass :oops:
bstanko6
12-23-20, 12:54 PM
That’s ok... Steiner will ensure a republican senate.
::waves hand::
https://youtu.be/PUif106VC-o
You're right, but it took both sides acting in a black and white attitude for Waco to have happened.
It's clear to me that David Koresh was priming his following for a showdown, yes as corny as that sounds, a showdown with the FBI in the early nineties.
That, in itself, doesn't excuse the FBI for having over reacted, but it does show that the story isn't really all that black and white.
By the way, I'm still searching for Biden's roll in this matter. Please point me to it.
As I remember he was on the Judiciary committee whose investigation into the Waco incident essentially exonerated the government of wrongdoing. I haven't really been following that segment of the political theater that closely so I may be wrong.
And you are right about Koresh but the government chooses how to handle such individuals and I expect them not to sent swat or snipers (in the case of Ruby Ridge) unless all less violent means of arresting them have been exhausted. Too often the predawn military style raid is their first choice and that has to change.
It's not over till the democrats say the rich have to pay the stimulus back :yep:
Democrats will try to approve $2000 direct checks Thursday
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-will-try-to-approve-242000-direct-checks-thursday/ar-BB1cb4m3?ocid=BingNews
Okay with me, but if even one republican in the house disagrees it won't pass :oops:
That doesn't really matter. As SoH she could still bring it up as a house bill and vote on it almost as quickly and will probably pass too The opposition will be in the senate.
But that aside another problem with the bill as it stands is that it also includes funding, billions of dollars in funding, for foreign countries and projects that are unrelated to covid or it's effects on the American people. Regardless of their merit it just doesn't belong in a covid relief bill and drives the price way up. More importantly it does not justify reducing checks to the American people down to $600. Good for Trump to demand more.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 08:53 PM
I think the the Covid relief was added to a larger general spending bill rather than pork being added to a separate Covid relief bill.
It's misleading to complain about stuff being added to relief when it's the other way around.
I think the the Covid relief was added to a larger general spending bill rather than pork being added to a separate Covid relief bill.
It's misleading to complain about stuff being added to relief when it's the other way around.
Doesn't matter which way it was added. Covid relief should be passed on it's own. Not as an attached rider on the latest Washington Pork express.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 10:28 PM
True, but it also represents a way to get it passed on a bill already in the mill.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 10:39 PM
Doesn't matter which way it was added. Covid relief should be passed on it's own. Not as an attached rider on the latest Washington Pork express.
That applies to so many, probably all, congressional bills. Swampy, yes, but that's pretty much the way it has worked forever.
True, but it also represents a way to get it passed on a bill already in the mill.
Already in the mill sounds like swamp speak for it makes it easier to conceal the pork. I'd like to hear some sound reasons why those two bills should be attached. But maybe that's the point right? Combine it so the bill is 5000 pages long then rush it through before anyone has a chance to read it and all the smelly little details come to light.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 10:59 PM
That's one way of looking at it and it's the same argument that both parties make depending on what's in the bills.
Congress operates by rules and due process so adding it to a bill already facing a vote is putting it ahead in the queue unless special sessions are called for.
It also will do as you say and put a squeeze on to pass what's there which is nothing new for either party again.
Go ahead and call it a swamp, but anything done by committee is a quagmire. So what do you do, form a one party system? I don't think it would matter much if we called each other comrade, or voter, then.
bstanko6
12-23-20, 11:16 PM
@August...
Biden was the head chair during Waco. I watched it live. Shows my age!
He had to find them innocent because Clinton was in the middle of whitewater incident.
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 11:25 PM
Which investigation, 1993, or 1995?
bstanko6
12-23-20, 11:30 PM
Buddahaid...
In the words of your uncle joe...
“C’mon man!”
https://youtu.be/TdLePJAuK-w
Buddahaid
12-23-20, 11:39 PM
Just asking since I haven't seen Biden yet in the 1995 investigation.
Enjoy....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EErY75MXYXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSKSYgyRZU
:O:
Jimbuna
12-24-20, 06:06 AM
US President Donald Trump has pardoned his former campaign manager Paul Manafort, ex-adviser Roger Stone and the father of Mr Trump's son-in-law.
Mr Manafort was convicted in 2018 in an investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 US election.
Mr Trump had previously commuted the prison sentence of Mr Stone, who was convicted of lying to Congress.
They are among 29 people to benefit from Mr Trump's latest pardons before he leaves office next month.
Twenty-six of them won full pardons on Wednesday night, while another three received commutations.
A commutation usually takes the form of a reduced prison term, but does not erase the conviction or imply innocence.
A pardon is an expression of the president's forgiveness that confers extra privileges, such as restoring the convict's right to vote.
Presidents often grant pardons in their final days of office.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55433522
bstanko6
12-24-20, 06:55 AM
Remember when Joe Biden joined the senate... 180 years ago!
C’mon man!
Skybird
12-24-20, 08:32 AM
US President Donald Trump has pardoned his former campaign manager Paul Manafort, ex-adviser Roger Stone and the father of Mr Trump's son-in-law.
Mr Manafort was convicted in 2018 in an investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 US election.
Mr Trump had previously commuted the prison sentence of Mr Stone, who was convicted of lying to Congress.
They are among 29 people to benefit from Mr Trump's latest pardons before he leaves office next month.
Twenty-six of them won full pardons on Wednesday night, while another three received commutations.
A commutation usually takes the form of a reduced prison term, but does not erase the conviction or imply innocence.
A pardon is an expression of the president's forgiveness that confers extra privileges, such as restoring the convict's right to vote.
Presidents often grant pardons in their final days of office.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55433522
The pardoning excess by Trump better should be called nepotism. Its the corrupting of law and order.
u crank
12-24-20, 08:58 AM
The pardoning excess by Trump better should be called nepotism. Its the corrupting of law and order.
Gee Skybird, it's almost like you think Trump is the first outgoing President to issue pardons. You don't think that do you?
How many past Presidents have pardoned people directly related to an investigation on himself?
The precedent being set here is absolutely horrifying for the US and it's alarming how many seem to not recognize it.
u crank
12-24-20, 10:49 AM
How many past Presidents have pardoned people directly related to an investigation on himself?
Why would that matter? Are any of those investigations still ongoing?
Skybird
12-24-20, 11:30 AM
it's alarming how many seem to not recognize it.
Do not want to see it, eyes wide shut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump
For 125 years, the key adviser to the president on clemency has been the Department of Justice's Office of the Pardon Attorney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_the_Pardon_Attorney) (OPA) which normally reviews all requests for pardons.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-WaPo_Gearan_20200222-2) However, Trump has often bypassed the OPA, and, unlike previous presidents, has made the majority of his grants to executive clemency to "well-connected offenders who had not filed petitions with the pardon office or did not meet its requirements."[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-WaPo_Gearan_20200222-2) On February 19, 2020, Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Leahy) requested information on the process used by Trump in deciding to grant clemency to 11 people the preceding day.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-CNN_LeBlanc_20200222-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-CNN_Klein_20200222-7) In response to the criticism of his bypassing of the OPA, Trump said that he is the "chief law enforcement officer of the country."[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-WaPo_Olorunnipa_20200219-8) Legal experts raised concerns that Trump was "relying on his personal connections rather than the Justice Department's established review process for finding convicts deserving of clemency."[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donal d_Trump#cite_note-WaPo_Olorunnipa_20200219-8)
Eyes wide shut.
Bilge_Rat
12-24-20, 12:05 PM
How many past Presidents have pardoned people directly related to an investigation on himself?
The precedent being set here is absolutely horrifying for the US and it's alarming how many seem to not recognize it.
Iran-Contra, Bush sr pardoned every one involved. That one was worse because Bush sr was still in legal jeopardy.
Pardons
On 24 December 1992, after he had been defeated for reelection, lame duck President George H. W. Bush pardoned five administration officials who had been found guilty on charges relating to the affair.[112] They were:
Elliott Abrams;
Duane Clarridge;
Alan Fiers;
Clair George; and
Robert McFarlane.
Bush also pardoned Caspar Weinberger, who had not yet come to trial.[113] Attorney General William P. Barr advised the President on these pardons, especially that of Caspar Weinberger.[114]
In response to these Bush pardons, Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh, who headed the investigation of Reagan Administration officials' criminal conduct in the Iran–Contra scandal, stated that "the Iran–Contra cover-up, which has continued for more than six years, has now been completed." Walsh noted that in issuing the pardons Bush appears to have been preempting being implicated himself in the crimes of Iran–Contra by evidence that was to come to light during the Weinberger trial, and noted that there was a pattern of "deception and obstruction" by Bush, Weinberger and other senior Reagan administration officials.[104][11][115]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
the President's power to pardon is absolute. Presidents have always used it for political purposes and every 4 or 8 years, the peanut gallery gets upset about the "unprecedented corruption".
Trump will be gone in a month, why are you guys still obessed by him and what will you do when he is gone. :ping:
Why would that matter? Are any of those investigations still ongoing?
He doesn't care. OMB is all he can hold in his brain.
Mr Quatro
12-24-20, 12:21 PM
I think President Trump did a great job :up:
Only in a great country like ours are you allowed to disagree :yep:
https://gray-kalb-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/UO9mYf14H1JuC1RcxbtrPX6y3mU=/1200x900/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/Y3JZXUZ22ZNOBK2FQT52JX35KI.jpg
bstanko6
12-24-20, 12:23 PM
They all do it. Presidents should not be able to let people off the hook at all. That should be the supreme courts gig.
Torvald Von Mansee
12-24-20, 01:40 PM
How many past Presidents have pardoned people directly related to an investigation on himself?
The precedent being set here is absolutely horrifying for the US and it's alarming how many seem to not recognize it.
Lots and lots of us see it. There is, however, no reason to think about it because nothing can be done about it.
I think the best thing to do after Trump is gone is have a truth and reconciliation commission, where people can testify about what happened in his administration with an offer of immunity. If you LIE, you should get horribly punished. If you don't testify and it turns out you committed a crime and enough evidence presents itself, you get charged, etc. Given that other people would be presenting evidence and it could be cross-referenced and correlated, it would be in your best interest to testify and be truthful about it. And if you weren't ever corrupt, you don't have anything to worry about!! :D
(There's a slim chance the preceding paragraph was a troll)
No, the corruption of Democratic administrations doesn't excuse the corruption of the Trump administration. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Torvald Von Mansee
12-24-20, 01:41 PM
I think President Trump did a great job :up:
Only in a great country like ours are you allowed to disagree :yep:
https://gray-kalb-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/UO9mYf14H1JuC1RcxbtrPX6y3mU=/1200x900/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/Y3JZXUZ22ZNOBK2FQT52JX35KI.jpg
You're absolutely right!! We are entitled to our opinions.
I, for example, am of the opinion gravity doesn't exist!!
u crank
12-24-20, 02:24 PM
I think the best thing to do after Trump is gone is have a truth and reconciliation commission, where people can testify about what happened in his administration with an offer of immunity. If you LIE, you should get horribly punished. If you don't testify and it turns out you committed a crime and enough evidence presents itself, you get charged, etc. Given that other people would be presenting evidence and it could be cross-referenced and correlated, it would be in your best interest to testify and be truthful about it. And if you weren't ever corrupt, you don't have anything to worry about!! :D
(There's a slim chance the preceding paragraph was a troll)
Where would you locate the Gulag?:D
Buddahaid
12-24-20, 02:33 PM
Where would you locate the Gulag?:D
Mar-a-lago.
Where do I sign up? I want to denounce Dowly and Torvald as secret Trump supporters. They will deny it of course but once the Commission puts them to The Question their guilt will become evident. :03:
u crank
12-24-20, 02:56 PM
Mar-a-lago..
Seems a little plush. People are not going to be very ‘ truthful’.
Mr Quatro
12-24-20, 04:25 PM
.
Seems a little plush. People are not going to be very ‘ truthful’.
and just where did you get that seed thought :hmmm:
Just kidding :D
The only pardon I thought sucked was for the clowns from Blackwater. They deserve to still being locked up. Putting a bullet into the head of a 9 year old boy, there is no pardon for that.
em2nought
12-24-20, 05:37 PM
Where do I sign up? I want to denounce Dowly and Torvald as secret Trump supporters. They will deny it of course but once the Commission puts them to The Question their guilt will become evident. :03:
I forget witch is the sign of innocence, sinking or floating? :D
Buddahaid
12-24-20, 06:54 PM
I knew it! We are devolving into the Dark Ages and the Inquisition. Almost as bad as Scotland......
Buddahaid
12-24-20, 06:58 PM
The only pardon I thought sucked was for the clowns from Blackwater. They deserve to still being locked up. Putting a bullet into the head of a 9 year old boy, there is no pardon for that.
Yeah, I almost brought that up to compare with the Biden ATF complaint.
bstanko6
12-24-20, 09:35 PM
C’mon man!
Buddahaid
12-24-20, 09:50 PM
The biggest difference is the dead are foreigners, or the perps aren't government agents. Where is the moral divide?
Why would that matter? Are any of those investigations still ongoing?There's a fairly big conflict of interest issue with someone who is being investigated being able to pardon potential witnesses later on.
Skybird
12-25-20, 04:43 AM
Trump indeed so far has pardoned only a very tiny fraction of those numbers pardoned by presidents before him, going back to Roosevelt. The problem is the individual types he pardons, and that he bypasses the Department of Justice to be able to abuse pardons for his own personal interest. Trump pardons accomplices in crime, and tries to protect himself from future legal persecution. That is what sets him apart from presidents before him. and nthat is why his numbers, though small in numbers, do much more damage to the credibility of the justice system and the institution of the presidency. The damage is small in quanity, but huge in quality.
u crank
12-25-20, 07:37 AM
There's a fairly big conflict of interest issue with someone who is being investigated being able to pardon potential witnesses later on.
I don’t see your point. Just because these people have been pardoned doesn’t mean they cannot be called to testify in the future. In fact now that they are no longer the accused they lose their 5th amendment right to self incrimination.
I don’t see your point. Just because these people have been pardoned doesn’t mean they cannot be called to testify in the future. In fact now that they are no longer the accused they lose their 5th amendment right to self incrimination.I didn't say Trump's smart. :O:
u crank
12-25-20, 09:47 AM
I didn't say Trump's smart. :O:
Neither did I.:D
Many of those getting pardons, Stone, Manafort, Flynn, van der Zwaan and Papadopoulos were part of Mueller's investigation and that is a done deal. Trump would have probably been advised of that before he pardoned them.
I don't think Trump's pardon spree is over yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erAYITZRdJk&feature=emb_logo
Mr Quatro
12-25-20, 11:44 AM
The only pardon I thought sucked was for the clowns from Blackwater. They deserve to still being locked up. Putting a bullet into the head of a 9 year old boy, there is no pardon for that.
I never have shot a gun in fear except when playing a shooter game, but when I did play that game I didn't care what I hit as long as I was going to stay safe.
I'm sure they didn't target a young boy on purpose, plus they were in a strange land with strange people that like to blow up people.
I would've pardoned them too :yep:
Cybermat47
12-25-20, 12:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erAYITZRdJk&feature=emb_logo
I have to ask... have you ever actually met a communist? Because the tankies seriously hate Biden. They even think that Sanders is too much of a moderate. Biden has more in common with you than he does with tankies.
Also, the restrictions in place right now are because of the pandemic that killed my grandfather...
I have to ask... have you ever actually met a communist? Because the tankies seriously hate Biden. They even think that Sanders is too much of a moderate. Biden has more in common with you than he does with tankies.
Also, the restrictions in place right now are because of the pandemic that killed my grandfather...
First off what the heck is a tankie?
Second every power grab in history has used an emergency, real, hyped up and sometimes totally fictional situations to justify it's move which almost always turn out to be permanent. See the Patriot Act or federal income taxes for examples. Do you think that any possible measure the government may take to restrict Americans rights and freedoms is automatically justified because of a disease that can be fatal to elderly people?
Third Biden is no leader but a stooge of the last remaining communist power. The Chinese own his son and by extension they own him because with the Bidens power broking is a family business.
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