US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Skybird]

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats got what they hoped for.

The Reps got no relief for Trump although they tried angrily to mount pressure on Mueller, but Mueller indeed was crystal clear by his wording in that he sees the president guilty, but could not charge him under current rules of play. Though he sometimes appeared to be a bit irritated by the furor of especially angry Republicans. In his world of reason, evidence and argument, biased emotions like this seem to have little room, he seemed to be ill-preparted to handle emotional rants. On the other hand, how not to be irriated by somethign that is not more than emotional rant?

The Democrats hoped for new ammunition against Trump, but Mueller did offer nothing new that he had not already said and written before. The Dems leave with empty hands, too.

If people would listen more closely and carfully, than this all would have been not necessary, for Mueller already in the past was very precise in what he wanted to say, and how he formulated it. His words back then were as crystal clear, and that has not changed.

Its all a populistic stage play what they did there.

I recommend to send both parties to hell. None of them is any good for anything anymore.

[u crank]

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats got what they hoped for.

Let's remember who drag poor old Robert Mueller out of his rocking chair and before these committees. It wasn't the Republicans.

Mueller looked bad. Like an old guy in a home who is awakened from his nap and told it is time for lunch. And he doesn't know what lunch is. Painful to watch.

[Skybird]

Let's remember who drag poor old Robert Mueller out of his rocking chair and before these committees. It wasn't the Republicans.
True, but the propagandistic abuse by Trump and by Republicans of what Mueller said in his report, speaks volumes for that bad intentions as well. They simply distorted what Mueller actually said and wrote. I rate this as the far more serious offence, compared to the Democrats trying to find some ammo in Mueller's words, spoken or written. The democrats acted weak. The republicans acted malicious.


Mueller looked bad. Like an old guy in a home who is awakened from his nap and told it is time for lunch. And he doesn't know what lunch is. Painful to watch.
Cosmetics. Not important what he looked like, but what he had to say. Also note to worth: so far he seems to noit have contradcited himself, not once, in all of this. Police use to say that to differ a liar from somebody telling the truth, let them tell their story time and again. Often the liar's story will change over time, the truth-telling guy's story will not.

[Dowly]

The Democrats hoped for new ammunition against Trump, but Mueller did offer nothing new that he had not already said and written before. The Dems leave with empty hands, too.I would imagine the point was to make this public and have people hear it from Mueller himself what his investigation found. And while most of it was hashing information from his report, he did clarify a lot of things such as Catfish said for example, that Trump can absolutely be charged the moment he leaves the office for obstruction or that obstruction doesn't have to succeed for it to be a crime etc.

[Mr Quatro]

It was just a tennis match between men and women that hate Trump and men and women that love Trump.

Truth is just a perception of ones own values :yep:

[Bilge_Rat]

I would imagine the point was to make this public and have people hear it from Mueller himself what his investigation found. And while most of it was hashing information from his report, he did clarify a lot of things such as Catfish said for example, that Trump can absolutely be charged the moment he leaves the office for obstruction or that obstruction doesn't have to succeed for it to be a crime etc.

The Mueller testimony was a dud and did not move the needle either way. Now as to the "obstruction" issue, there is no reasonable obstruction case here since:

1. There was no underlying crime to cover up so no corrupt intent. Yes, it is true that you can, in theory, have obstruction of justice without an underlying crime, but not with a President (see 3 below);

2. Even though the Mueller report lays out instances of alleged obstruction, the reality is that Mueller was not fired and the Trump WH allowed them access to all the witnesses they wanted and all the documents they wanted, so there was no actual obstruction. This contrasts with the Clinton WH which blocked the Starr investigation at every turn;

3. Under the Constitution, the President has the unrestricted power to hire and fire prosecutors, so he had the legal power to order the firing Mueller at any time. Exercising your legal powers under the Constitution is not obstruction of justice, unless you can show corrupt intent, but there is the "catch 22" since:

--3.1- there was no underlying crime so no one can point to a "corrupt intent" and

--3.2 - Mueller was not fired in any event.

[u crank]

True, but the propagandistic abuse by Trump and by Republicans of what Mueller said in his report, speaks volumes for that bad intentions as well. They simply distorted what Mueller actually said and wrote.

How so? AG Barr released the entire report. He did not change any part of it.

The democrats acted weak. The republicans acted malicious.

The malicious part was forcing Mueller to testify. He only agreed to avoid a subpoena. He did not want to do this. The Dems knew this. They did it anyway. Who's malicious?

[Skybird]

How so? AG Barr released the entire report. He did not change any part of it.

You surely remember the controversy there has been b etween his comment on it, and what Mueller commendted inreply to Barr.

The malicious part was forcing Mueller to testify. He only agreed to avoid a subpoena. He did not want to do this. The Dems knew this. They did it anyway. Who's malicious?
The Republicans. The Democrats act weak, more or less desperate, and in the end just did what legally and formally they absolutely had the right to do. Whether Mueller liked it or not, legally doe snot matter (he did not, and said that already weeks ago, I posted on it - but different to Trump and some others, he understands the legal situation and the laws, and obeys them). The Republicans, on their hand, tried to twist, forge and turn the report's conclusions and what Mueller said, they defamed the man, and told rightout lies about what the report concludes - and they still continue to do so. Agitation and propaganda in disregard of the fact they claim to describe. That is the far more serious guilt. That Trump had the big mouth and chuzpe to claim in public the report said right the opposite of what it actually and as a fact says in writing, tells all one needs to mention here. The impression left by Barr is not better.

[u crank]

You surely remember the controversy there has been b etween his comment on it, and what Mueller commendted inreply to Barr.

The Republicans, on their hand, tried to twist, forge and turn the report's conclusions and what Mueller said, they defamed the man, and told rightout lies about what the report concludes - and they still continue to do so.

Yes I do. It wasn't much of a controversy. Barr summed up Mueller's conclusion. Barr didn't change Mueller's conclusion. Mueller declined to make a judgement on the obstruction part. Barr did his job and made it for him. Barr and Mueller have been friends for a long time. Barr wonder why Mueller would remark publicly about his, Barr's summation. He could have picked up the phone and called him. Optics probably concocted by Mueller's underlings.

I'll ask the obvious question. What did AG Barr change about the reports conclusion?

[Catfish]

Yeah, it is such a yuuuuge victory for TRUMP !

Before Skybird somehow doubts my sarcasm here.. :03:

[Onkel Neal]

Can you show us the other photos? I am genuinely interested in seeing them.

I don't know, was there only one?

[Aktungbby]

POLITICS RULE # 1 OF THE ENGLISH SPEAKING LAKE(THE ATLANTIC): IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY...??!!https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5ac6672d524c4a1c008b47d4-750-375.jpg...https://assets.lbc.co.uk/2016/33/boris-johnson-6-1471423735-view-0.jpg

[Skybird]

I'll ask the obvious question. What did AG Barr change about the reports conclusion?
You could know that by now, it has been reported and described often enough, last time just one day ago - ONCE AGAIN.


Barr “did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office's work and conclusions,” Mueller wrote (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-01/mueller-letter-disputing-barr-is-released-by-doj). "There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations."

(...)

What did Barr do with all that? As soon as Mueller dropped his report in the attorney general’s lap, Barr whipped up his own interpretation over a weekend before anyone else had a chance to read it. He then force-fed the nation his story of choice: In a four-page letter (https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/AG%20March%2024%202019%20Letter%20to%20House%20and %20Senate%20Judiciary%20Committees.pdf), Barr said that Trump didn’t conspire criminally and also didn’t obstruct justice. Mueller hadn’t exonerated the president or ruled on obstruction, Barr noted, so he decided to make those judgments himself. No conspiracy, no obstruction, case closed.

The media then helped Barr’s narrative along (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-01/no-russiagate-isn-t-this-generation-s-wmd), as a mixture of journalists, Trump apologists and Russia sympathizers said a “reckoning” was afoot for anyone who had thought that the Mueller probe might’ve imperiled Trump’s presidency or implicated him in criminal acts. The report actually did demonstrate that the probe was an existential threat to Trump and was indisputably incriminating. But the reckoning crowd passed judgment with only Barr’s letter – and not the report – in hand.
You can imagine Mueller and his team being irked as they realized that Barr had just outflanked them. So what did Mueller do? He wrote his letter. Of course he did. He’s a profound institutionalist and a by-the-books prosecutor. Maybe he didn’t fully anticipate how rough-and-tumble Barr was prepared to be. Surely, a letter was the answer.
Nope, that letter rolled right off Barr’s back. “The letter’s a bit snitty” Barr told the Senate (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-barr-says-mueller-letter-was-a-bit-snitty) when he later testified about his handling of the special counsel’s report. Unlike Mueller, Barr wasn’t going to limit himself to gentlemanly missives about the finer points of law. When he unveiled his redacted version of the full report (https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf) in April, he began the event with an unusual press briefing in which he simply reiterated Trump’s talking points.
“The special counsel found no ‘collusion’ by any American,” Barr said in a massively inappropriate display of political bravado (https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-bill-barrs-prepared-remarks-press-conference-mueller-report). But Mueller hadn’t investigated collusion, which Barr knew full well. As Mueller noted in his report, his team “applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of ‘collusion.’"
None of that deterred Barr from spinning. “There is substantial evidence to show that the president was frustrated and angered by a sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks,” he complained (https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-bill-barrs-prepared-remarks-press-conference-mueller-report), stacking the deck against a report he had yet to release. “Apart from whether the acts were obstructive, this evidence of non-corrupt motives weighs heavily against any allegation that the president had a corrupt intent to obstruct the investigation.”
After this bit of dissembling, public interest in the report was deflated. By and large, most Americans and most politicians still haven’t read it (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/09/congress-read-mueller-report-1402232).




https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-24/mueller-testimony-how-bill-barr-outplayed-bob-mueller


But you culd as well take any other of the many, many, many links like this that tell the story of Barr outmanouvering Mueller.

[Deepseadiver]

I don't know, was there only one?

You said "photos" plural. I would not mind seeing them.

[Platapus]

So each political party was trying to spin Mueller to support their agenda and Mueller was too smart to fall for it.



I think he was the right man for the job.

[August]

So each political party was trying to spin Mueller to support their agenda and Mueller was too smart to fall for it.



I think he was the right man for the job.


I think more than anything it showed that Mueller was nothing but a figurehead. They should change it's name to the Weissmann/Rhee Report.

[vienna]

So each political party was trying to spin Mueller to support their agenda and Mueller was too smart to fall for it.

I think he was the right man for the job.


Second that...

Mueller was who he always has been: his own man. That is what has so infuriated the pols on both ends of the spectrum; he exists away from their games, lies, and proselytism. He was given a task, he saw it through, he gave his report and that was all he signed on to do. Just like the Marine officer he was and, at heart, still is, he completed his mission and now has moved on...

In an odd way, Mueller is sort of like Omar Khayyim's "moving finger":


The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”


Neither the copious wailing and gnashing and grinding of teeth of the Far Right nor the supplications of the Far Left can or will shake him...

Mueller has just given them all 'the Finger' and he's moved on...







<O>

[vienna]

Well, the GOP giveth and the GOP taketh away...


After Mueller's testimony yesterday about the extent, intent, and future of Russian interference in US election processes, the GOP-led Senate Select Committee on Intelligence released their Report on "Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference". The report further bolsters the findings of the SC and outlines possible remedies. Now it seems the only one who still believes Russia didn't interfere in the 2016 Presidential Election cycle is - surprise, surprise - the guy who was the benficiary of Russian largess, Donald Trump...


Senate Intel Committee Unveils Election Security Report In Wake Of Mueller Hearings --

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/25/745205135/senate-intel-committee-unveils-election-security-report-in-wake-of-mueller-day


A direct link to the PDF of the Report:

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6214170-Senate-Intel-Report-On-Election-Interference



So, of course, the Senate GOP Leader leaped into action and took decisive action to combat the nefarious evil-doings!!...



...just kidding...


GOP senators block election security legislation hours after Mueller warns of Russian interference --

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/25/politics/republican-senators-block-election-security-legislation/index.html


Gee, it must be horrible to be a GOP politician who is so desperate to try and hold on to their dwindling grasp of power that they would rather sell-out the security of the US and its election process(es), an essential element of the American heritage. I wonder how badly O'Connell, et al, must believe they are going to suffer in the sinking of the SS Trump in 2020? The stench of desperation is strong on the GOP side of the aisle: seems they believe they can't win by making an honest appeal to the voters, so they are resorting to political thievery and the benevolence of Uncle Vlad...







<O>

[Dowly]

GOP senators block election security legislation hours after Mueller warns of Russian interference --

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/25/politics/republican-senators-block-election-security-legislation/index.html

http://i.imgur.com/qkn5y5Ol.jpg (https://imgur.com/qkn5y5O)


How many election security bills is that now? Four? Five?

[Dowly]

3. Under the Constitution, the President has the unrestricted power to hire and fire prosecutors, so he had the legal power to order the firing Mueller at any time. Exercising your legal powers under the Constitution is not obstruction of justice, unless you can show corrupt intent, but there is the "catch 22" since:

--3.1- there was no underlying crime so no one can point to a "corrupt intent" and

--3.2 - Mueller was not fired in any event.
There is a whole section (Vol.2,Section III) in the report that examines the letter sent by Trump's lawyer (from where what you write originates from). It is about 30 pages of boring text, but it sums that yes, the President can obstruct and can be investigated for obstruction.

In sum, contrary to the position taken by the President ' s counsel, we concluded that, in
light of the Supreme Court precedent governing separation-of-powers issues , we had a valid basis
for investigating the conduct at issue in this report. In our view, the application of the obstruction
statutes would not impermissibly burden the President's performance of his Article II function to
supervise prosecutorial conduct or to remove inferior law-enforcement officers. And the
protection of the criminal justice system from corrupt acts by any person-including
the President-accords the the fundamental principle of our government that
"[n]o [person] in this country is so high that he is above the law."
United States v. Lee, I 06 U.S. 196, 220 (1882); see also Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. at 697 ; United States v. Nixon , supra.3.1) Obstruction doesn't require one. The President was a subject of investigation, that was enough.

3.2) Obstruction doesn't need to succeed for it to be obstruction.

[Jimbuna]

POLITICS RULE # 1 OF THE ENGLISH SPEAKING LAKE(THE ATLANTIC): IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY...??!!https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5ac6672d524c4a1c008b47d4-750-375.jpg...https://assets.lbc.co.uk/2016/33/boris-johnson-6-1471423735-view-0.jpg

Similarly here in the UK

https://i.imgur.com/HuqvK0B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mph2scZ.jpg

[u crank]

But you culd as well take any other of the many, many, many links like this that tell the story of Barr outmanouvering Mueller.

There is no out manouvering to it. Mueller worked for Barr. If Mueller is not happy with his boss he can publicly complain and he did. Barr responded publicly.

[Bilge_Rat]

There is a whole section (Vol.2,Section III) in the report that examines the letter sent by Trump's lawyer (from where what you write originates from). It is about 30 pages of boring text, but it sums that yes, the President can obstruct and can be investigated for obstruction.

Well no, that is a different, although equally valid argument, namely that when POTUS exercises a power granted to him by the Constitution, his actions cannot be reviewed at all. That argument has been made by some excellent U.S. Constitutional lawyers, including Alan Dershowitz.

The fact that Mueller's team rejects the argument does not resolve the issue since that is just the opinion of a different set of lawyers. Ultimately, the decision will be made by the Courts.

My argument is more basic and grounded in the principles of criminal law, namely the concept of "reasonable doubt".

The mistake non-lawyers are making is thinking that proving "obstruction of justice" is just a matter of "connecting the dots" of various facts which could hypothetically be argued to be "obstruction". In fact, you have to prove each element beyond a "reasonable doubt", which means not only proving that each fact that you are relying on is true, but also that the defendant does not have a reasonable defence for his actions, i.e. "reasonable doubt".

In the case of POTUS, because he has a constitutional duty to oversee the justice system, including prosecutors, it becomes impossible to prove obstruction of justice beyond a reasonable doubt, if there is no underlying crime as I will explain.

3.1) Obstruction doesn't require one. The President was a subject of investigation, that was enough.

well no, the mere fact that POTUS was a target is not enough. You have to show that he was exercising his powers for a corrupt motive and not carrying out his legal Constitutional duties.

To use an extreme example, assume that prior to a new democratic President taking office in jan. 2025, a Republican U.S. attorney launches a politically motivated investigation against him (or her). Are you saying that the President would be guilty of "obstruction of justice" if he fired that U.S. attorney and shut down the investigation?

Here we have a case where POTUS was investigated for a crime which: 1) he knew he was innocent of, since Mueller found no actual criminal act, i.e. no collusion; and 2) that the investigation was politically motivated since its true purpose was to force him out of office. If he had fired Mueller, that would have been an entirely reasonable defence.

So because Mueller found no underlying crime, it is impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any of the actions by POTUS constituted criminal obstruction of justice.

3.2) Obstruction doesn't need to succeed for it to be obstruction.

true, but you still have to show that the actions were done in an attempt to obstruct justice.

POTUS could have fired Mueller at any time and he would have been legally justified to do it. He did not, he allowed the investigation to conclude and provided reasonable cooperation. In the circumstances, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was trying to obstruct justice.

[August]

https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/26/muellers-ignorance-fusion-gps-proves-investigation-sham/

That Mueller had no knowledge of Fusion GPS seems to cement the conclusion that the supposedly wide-ranging, thorough investigation Mueller oversaw over Russia interference in the 2016 election ignored what was potentially the most significant interference that took place: Russia feeding Steele, the Democratic National Committee, and in turn the U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and federal surveillance courts, fake intel allowing for spying on a political campaign.
So it looks like the Steele Dossier itself was a Russian attempt to interfere in our election.


Who was the Russians supposedly helping again?

[Rockstar]

I still say it was politically motivated, prime example of policing for profit, 22 month long, 35 million dollar, government boondoggle. Its almost dead, nothing left of the horse now but political high drama, threats, finger pointing, editorials and sound bites.

[August]

I still say it was politically motivated, prime example of policing for profit, 22 month long, 35 million dollar, government boondoggle.




Absolutely. The perfect vehicle for the Russians to exploit and the Democrats were eager recipients.

[eddie]

I still say it was politically motivated, prime example of policing for profit, 22 month long, 35 million dollar, government boondoggle. Its almost dead, nothing left of the horse now but political high drama, threats, finger pointing, editorials and sound bites.


Reminds me of the never ending Benghazi investigation, which went absolutely no where. Just a Republican show.

[em2nought]

Reminds me of the never ending Benghazi investigation, which went absolutely no where. Just a Republican show.
If 9-11 was "some people did something" then Benghazi was "some people did nothing". :03:

[Rockstar]

Reminds me of the never ending *Ken Starr investigation, which went absolutely no where. Just a Republican show.

(*fixed)


Yes I agree, I too see similarities that cost the tax payer their time effort and money for another government dog and pony show.

On the other hand regarding Bengazi that debacle claimed the lives of four U.S. citizens, including a U.S. ambassador. Then Secretary of State Clinton and President Obama took responsibility. Oh and that republican investigation concluded no one person was at fault, there was a colossal breakdown in communication, and a severe lack of preparedness. Which I hope will encourage others to take steps to prevent further lose of life in the future. Yes there was also the usual political hay, hearsay, media drama and controversy which as everyone should know by now is what makes people tune in.

[mapuc]

(I know you wouldn't believe me)

The election in year 2043, a donkey will get most vote.

The Americans is filled up with the ongoing political war between Rep and Dem.

A person put a picture of his donkey and somehow this donkey become very popular.

Well a donkey can't be a President, so the candidate who became second, was elected as the President-Which was...no not a Rep or a Dem...but a third candidate.

(You don't have to believe me)

Markus

[vienna]

(I know you wouldn't believe me)

The election in year 2043, a donkey will get most vote.

The Americans is filled up with the ongoing political war between Rep and Dem.

A person put a picture of his donkey and somehow this donkey become very popular.

Well a donkey can't be a President, so the candidate who became second, was elected as the President-Which was...no not a Rep or a Dem...but a third candidate.

(You don't have to believe me)

Markus


A lot of people in the US would prefer a donkey to the ass in the Oval Office right now... :haha:







<O>

[em2nought]

A lot of people in the US would prefer a donkey to the ass in the Oval Office right now.


...and the other half would have preferred a donkey to the ass that held the office before him, we just didn't whine about it as much. :03:

[vienna]

...and the other half would have preferred a donkey to the ass that held the office before him, we just didn't whine about it as much. :03:


All the more reason to get rid of the current ass and his ass-ettes...








<O>

[Onkel Neal]

Is there a hidden message there? That didn't make sense.

[Platapus]

Trump actually said something that I can agree with


Trump calls Baltimore a "disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess".


The only good thing about Baltimore is that it makes DC not look so bad in comparison. And that's saying a lot considering what a "crap" hole DC is.

[vienna]

Is there a hidden message there? That didn't make sense.


Just made the error of saying "red" instead of "rid"; error remedied...


...much as the error that is Trump should be remedied... and will be in 2020... :D







<O>

[vienna]

Trump actually said something that I can agree with


Trump calls Baltimore a "disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess".


The only good thing about Baltimore is that it makes DC not look so bad in comparison. And that's saying a lot considering what a "crap" hole DC is.


Trump is just playing to his base and, as always, "preaching to the choir"; outside of his minions and Trumpettes, no one is buying his Bandini; much like Trump's taking up the cause of the loser rapper A$AP Rocky, an obvious ploy to play up to Black voters that Trump somehow thinks will come over to his side if they ignore all the racism inherent in Trump and give him cred for freeing Rocky. I don't think the majority of Black voters are going to buy into Trump's fantasies...

In keeping with the trend of Trump's staged actions, the newly revived Federal death penalty executions seems to be a way to not only feed Trump's Trumpettes, it also appears to be a prophylactic move to fend off racism charges further down the campaign trail; the very first Federal prisoner to be executed is an avowed White supremacist and, in making him the 'top of the list' Trump appears to be setting up a defense of 'How can I be a racist? I executed a White supremacist first off.'; I know of the heinous acts committed by the prisoner and there are few more deserving than him of having themselves removed from our society, but it really must suck for him to be the "show execution" intended to bolster Trump's failing reelection bid. The whole timing an means of selection is just a little to neat...

Two-plus years into Trump's term and he hasn't increased his starting poll numbers beyond just a point or two, and has even seen those starting numbers occasionally decrease during that time; even his own in-house pollster and, now, Fox News, have been reporting losing poll numbers for Trump, probably the reason he fired his in-house pollsters and has taken recently to openly criticizing Fox News...

What is really interesting about the poll numbers is just how narrow the 'undecided numbers have been: in most periods, the number of 'undecideds' has not exceeded 4% of the total polled, and, at some points even less than 4%, leaving Trump with very little 'wriggle room' to try and make gains towards a majority; the latest FiveThirtyEight.com sampling of the polls shows a 53.4% disapproval verus a 42.4% disapproval, leaving only 4.2% 'undecided' cushion; even if Trump were to pull all 4.2%, he'd still only have 46.6% of the voters, yet again, as in 2016, not a majority (as he has so desperately desired); in polls where voters were asked i they would or would not vote for Trump, well over half have said the definitely would not vote for Trump. The situation to note is there are several other 'shoes to drop' regarding Trump and his current and past activities; if the DEMs play the long game, they won't have to impeach Trump: the skeletons pushing their way out of his closet probably will do the job of getting him out of the Oval Office for them. One things for very sure: when Trump is out, he is going to be indicted, both on the Federal and State levels. And Trump knows this, which is why he has been flailing so much of late...








<O>

[Onkel Neal]

Just made the error of saying "red" instead of "rid"; error remedied...


...much as the error that is Trump should be remedied... and will be in 2020... :D




Ok, that helps. But how does "..and the other half would have preferred a donkey to the ass that held the office before him, we just didn't whine about it as much"


Lead to:
All the more reason to get rid of the current ass and his ass-ettes...

Because we didn't whine about Obama is more reason to get rid of Trump? :hmmm: Still don't understand what you are trying to say.




Trump actually said something that I can agree with


Trump calls Baltimore a "disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess".


The only good thing about Baltimore is that it makes DC not look so bad in comparison. And that's saying a lot considering what a "crap" hole DC is.


Yeah, all the big city Democrat strongholds have these problems. They need MO MONEY to solve poverty (been saying for 60 years)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voiqyfaqulQ

Even the mayor agrees !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2D4zoIODVo

[Hawk66]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Wealth_distribution_by_percentile_in_the_Unit ed_States.png

Worsened in the last decades and we see this trend also in other industrial countries. Ironically, this was surely one reason why Trump was indirectly elected but for instance with his "great tax reform" he continues worsening this situation.

[vienna]

Ok, that helps. But how does "..and the other half would have preferred a donkey to the ass that held the office before him, we just didn't whine about it as much"


Lead to:
All the more reason to get rid of the current ass and his ass-ettes...

Because we didn't whine about Obama is more reason to get rid of Trump? :hmmm: Still don't understand what you are trying to say.

...





One of the problems with trying to work on three or four things at a time is, quite often, one of those things gets half-done. My response was intended to address this post...


...and the other half would have preferred a donkey to the ass that held the office before him, we just didn't whine about it as much. :03:


...in the context of the 'whining' quotients. Your post said...




Because we didn't whine about Obama is more reason to get rid of Trump?


...when, in fact, there was a whole lot of whining about Obama, while he was in office, and an awful lot of it was present in postings on these forums. That there was so much whining about Obama and that there is a whole lot more about Trump and his inanities/incompetencies/inabilities/illegalities and various and sundry other grave shortcomings would, if one were to use the Obama Whining Quotient as a metric for removal from office, then the cacophony of complaints about Trump would seem to indicate a more urgent need to remedy an untenable situation. Hope that clears up the intent; there are no hidden messages and, if you'll excuse me, I have to report to my Russian handlers... :D





...

Yeah, all the big city Democrat strongholds have these problems. They need MO MONEY to solve poverty (been saying for 60 years)

...






This whole 'rat thing' is just another Trump red herring, intended to deflect attention from his own worsening problems. Big cities have rat problems, always have, and probably always will. A lot of the big US cities have had periods of GOP and DEM administrations, off and on, and unlike the human rats sitting behind the desks in the City Halls, the animal vermin remain regardless of who is in power. Trump is just trying to stir up his dwindling base and trying to keep people from seeing the real problems he has created...

Now, regarding slum conditions, Trump, and his family should be careful where they point their fingers. The Trump family have a long and well documented history as being slumlords and have faced several litigations for violation of health (including rat infestation) and safety violations in rental property they own or have owned, with some situations still being actively pursued. Trump's son-in-law, and fair haired boy, Jared Kushner is likewise compromised when it comes to being untainted in his property dealings; Kushner owns about 9,000 rental units actually in Baltimore and has a less than stellar record:


Kushner properties under renewed scrutiny after Trump calls Baltimore a "rodent infested mess" --


https://www.salon.com/2019/07/29/kushner-properties-under-renewed-scrutiny-after-trump-calls-baltimore-a-rodent-infested-mess/


Bet Jared wasn't so happy when Trump opened his yap and put the spotlight on his son-in-laws shortcomings...



BTW, back in the late 70s, I worked in the accounting offices of a pest control company here in LA; each day, the service men would bring me the cash and checks they'd received in payments for that day; while logging in and accounting for the returns, I'd have conversations with them and listen to their 'war stories' about their field work; there were a couple of guys who had been in the business for a couple of decades and more and I got to know them really well since they would often spend their down time hanging out in the accounting office (tended to be less hectic than the rest of the site); they were discussing and comparing past and present rat calls they had been on and I asked them where the worst rat infestations were in the LA area; I fully expected them to say something like the East LA barrios or the South Central hoods, but both immediately said, "Beverly Hills". If you are not familiar with the LA area, Beverly Hills is one of the most exclusive, most expensive, areas in the world. I was shocked and asked how that was possible; they said, because of the extensive landscaping with tons of hedges and ivy, etc., and the rich quality of the garbage, the rats just gravitated to the area because it offered the most places to nest and the greatest availability of food sources. Just goes to show: just because someplace looks sparkling clean and well-kept, doesn't mean they aren't above having serious vermin problems...










<O>

[em2nought]

...in the context of the 'whining' quotients. Your post said...


...when, in fact, there was a whole lot of whining about Obama, while he was in office, and an awful lot of it was present in postings on these forums.



Now don't go altering my words. I said there wasn't as much whining, not that there wasn't any. :03:

[mapuc]

So Mr. Trump have decided to pay Denmark a little visit on 2 and 3th of Sept. this year.

I guess it comes as no surprise for you that those Danes who's against him dislike this decision.

And those who support him are happy.

Whether you like an another countries head of state or not

You show this person respect, when visit your country.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

^ Tell that to those who will undoubtedly be demonstrating on the streets during the visit.

Most if not all countries have them.

[Catfish]

So Mr. Trump have decided to pay Denmark a little visit [...]
Whether you like an another countries head of state or not
You show this person respect, when visit your country.
Markus
Already forgotten? https://www.thelocal.dk/20181029/danish-politicians-slam-white-house-report-as-fake-news-scare-campaign

There will be the usual demonstrations, only in this case it is Trump who bullies your own politicians on a different level. Respect requires mutual respect.

[Jimbuna]

US President Donald Trump has said he will impose a fresh 10% tariff on another $300bn (£247bn) of Chinese goods, in a sharp escalation of a trade war between the two countries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49199559

I'm not sure if there is anything else that can be tariffed other than raising those already imposed.

The US has formally withdrawn from a nuclear treaty with Russia, raising fears of a new arms race.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49198565

Far more worrying, this could trigger an arms race.

[Skybird]

So Mr. Trump have decided to pay Denmark a little visit on 2 and 3th of Sept. this year.

I guess it comes as no surprise for you that those Danes who's against him dislike this decision.

And those who support him are happy.

Whether you like an another countries head of state or not

You show this person respect, when visit your country.

Markus
Its your country, and so your rules. You are free to respect or disrespect whomever you like.



Be a bit more chosey in whom you pay respect to. Some deserve it. Sometimes its a quesiton of mere politeness. Sometimes somebody deserves none.


And finally, its a thing of reciprocity.

[ikalugin]

And so the INF treaty is dead.

[August]

And so the INF treaty is dead.


Not that your side has ever paid much heed to it according to what I hear. :03:

[Catfish]

Not that your side has ever paid much heed to it according to what I hear. :03:
Of course you heard that.
It is what all people hear from their "leaders".

[Skybird]

I think its true what is said, that both sides wanted this treaty to go, because it binds their hands on their backs while China is free to do what it wants. And they have pushed development and stationing immensely, always eyeing Taiwan. The new Russian-Chinese military cooperation is opportunistic alliance against a shared rival (US/West), and not a heart-felt love affair.

[ikalugin]

Not that your side has ever paid much heed to it according to what I hear. :03:
I have seen mutual accusations of INF violations happen long before 2014 heh.


But yea, it is now dead, we had a party mourning it's passing heh.

[Jimbuna]

I think its true what is said, that both sides wanted this treaty to go, because it binds their hands on their backs while China is free to do what it wants. And they have pushed development and stationing immensely, always eyeing Taiwan. The new Russian-Chinese military cooperation is opportunistic alliance against a shared rival (US/West), and not a heart-felt love affair.

Could well be some merit in this :yep:

[vienna]

Now don't go altering my words. I said there wasn't as much whining, not that there wasn't any. :03:


So, you take umbrage? Well, if you had carefully and closely looked at the quote I was responding to, you would have noticed it wasn't your, but, rather something Neal had posted (Post #7288);




...

Because we didn't whine about Obama is more reason to get rid of Trump? :hmmm: Still don't understand what you are trying to say.

...





Now, I realize, for whatever reason, the proper attribution failed to show up when I copied the quote in question, but you should have taken note of the fact it wasn't attributable to you...

This is what it has come down to at last: "fake" News, Fake President, and, now, Fake Umbrage!!...




...to take credit for a quote not your own is shocking; to take umbrage on top of that, and accuse me falsely of altering your words, well, I must take umbrage, in fact High Umbrage!!...









I say "Good Day to you, sir!!"... :haha:








<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Sounds more like you (vienna) were drunk then and sober now, but all I have to go on is your written words :yep:

[Skybird]

In the trade war against China, the US is about to knock out itself. And the Chinese just have started to retribute in force. Trump, on the other hand, already has spent all the arrows in his quiver.


https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Farticle 198060279%2FHandelskrieg-Die-USA-stehen-im-Konflikt-mit-China-blank-da.html


And while Trumpoian America sees China as inferior to the US, Europe still sees China as relatively harmless and driven by good will and Europe being on same eye level with it. A lethal misconception that does not meet neither European options, nor Chinese self-understanding. That Western business so desperately tries to get access to chinese markets only to get stripped of its technological knowhow and being forced to help nursing the giant that ion the futurer will crack Wertdsenr business, I cannot understand since over 20 years now. The total absence of longterm strategic thinking in Western board of directors, is breathtaking.



But when the dollar sign starts to shine in businessmen's eyes, all reason flees right out of the windows immediately, it seems.

[Rockstar]

You can bet there's a lot of pressure on Xi Jinping too. The U.S. is selling arms to a more assertive Taiwan. We have an aircraft carrier parked in disputed waters. He is also facing criticism of his policies toward Uighurs in Xinjiang. Then there is the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement gaining traction. And of course the trade tariffs.


And I dont think for a moment the U.S. sees China as an inferior. Quite the contrary I think China is seen as an increasingly powerful economic and military player on the world stage. As John Bolton said "This is not just talking about tariffs and the terms of trade. This is a question of power."

Frankly IMHO this is how shooting wars can start. Who's gonna blink first?

[Skybird]

I focussed on the de facto trade and currency war when saying that China'S quiver of arrows is almost full, and America'S almost or even is empty. The taxes by Trump can be and have been countered by currency devaluation by China. China has de facto forbidden agricultural imports from america, which has to be swallowed by some core group of Trump'S voters.

Whatever Trump throws at China in these conflicts, currency and taxes and economy - China can counter it, and than retaliate some more.

And what else can Trump now do? There is not much left.

The boycot on Huawei only will have short and medium-term effects, for it was the starting signal for the Chinese to focus stronger on producing the American-imported components themselves from near future on. And they can ban Microsoft, Facebook, Google and the likes completely on the Chinese market, if needed. Wjhat Trump can do, the Chinese can as well.

Face it, Rockstar: so far Bejing has played with Trump very nicely and gently.

Further, the currency devaluation competition wanted by Trump and now done by Bejing, hurts exporting nations different from these two. The Euro becomes more expensive by these acts, and so do European (=German) exports. It will not get forgotten, at some future opportunity the bill for this will be sent to Washington in return.

Militarily, I think since years already that an American victory should not be taken for granted. And the balance in these years has constantly shifted in favour of the Chinese. I think due to the fact that such a war would be fought close to China, the chances are better for China already now. Land based missiles, land based air power, logistics and length of supply lines, number of navy units in service and in production: it all counts for the Chinese. Plus the circumstance that China and Russia have not hidden their new-found military cooperation. All together that makes for some very tough nut to crack. And the qualiuty of the Chiense forces today is not that of 30 years ago. Their modernization program and its speed was breathtaking in the past 15 years. Technologically they may not yet be totally oen par with the US, but numbers and supply lines more than make up for compensating the remaining difference. The US would need to kill much of the navy and supporting infrastructure on land, and their air force - China only needs to sink one or two carriers and a small part of the operational US submarines in the region, while China's public opinion at home can sustain much higher losses on sea, than would the American public.

[vienna]

Sounds more like you (vienna) were drunk then and sober now, but all I have to go on is your written words :yep:


Given I have long been on a course of medications which my doctors, and the paperwork accompanying said medications, assure me of severely dire consequences of mixing alcohol with the meds, I, to my dismay, have not been able to partake for some 15 years now, so sobriety or lack thereof is not an issue. As indicated in one of my prior posts, I often try to manage several activities at once and, in the course, some often suffer, as in the case of an unclear posting I was asked to clarify by a member, so I complied. There appeared to be confusion by yet another member over my response being to his posting, so I clarified that issue...

Given you immediately went to an issue of sobriety regarding my post(s), may I venture to guess you are speaking from self-experiential reference?... :03:


Regarding Chine and trade, the whole Trump "policy" has been, like pretty much everything he has done in office, a mish-mash of a mess. In his haste to 'prove' himself to his base, he has taken the most simplistic measures to address a highly complex issue. International trade, with any nation, is not a matter of idiot campaign sloganeering; ramifications and implications of making wrong moves and/or measures can be devastating. Trump, and by extension his advisors, have been royally played by China and the US public has been played by Trump and his minions. Just the oft repeated and very widely debunked assertion China would be paying the tariff(s) is so on its face ridiculous, it ranks along with the assertion Mexico will pay for a border wall...

China has been biding its time, making adjustments in its trade posture to offset Trump's actions; time is on their side. While Trump has been thumping his chest and rattling his sabers, China has rather quietly shifting from US sources to other nations; last week I noticed this news story:


Exclusive: China to inspect Argentine crushers, could unlock No. 1 soymeal market --

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argentina-soyproducts-china-exclusive/exclusive-china-to-inspect-argentine-crushers-could-unlock-no-1-soymeal-market-idUSKCN1UP1WT


When Trump imposed his new tariffs, I wondered if it was in response to the above development; if so, it has seriously backfired: China has halted purchases of US products and has allowed the Yuan to 'float' against the dollar, in effect devaluing China's currency. This serves to make Chinese exports 'cheaper' to US buyers, pretty much offsetting the effects of the tariffs. A further effect will be making US products much more expensive to Chinese buyers; not to mention the effect on Chinese tourism to the US when the tourists realize they're going to get much less 'bang for the Yuan'. Hotels, restaurants, airlines, etc., are going to feel the pinch...

...and what about the farmers who not only are seeing their current markets drying up, they are looking at the continued loss of market relationships with China they have nurtured over decades. The possibility they will ever get back to anywhere near the status they enjoyed before the Idiot-In-Chief made yet another immense blunder are virtually nil. About a month ago, I saw an interview with a small farmer who had lost a Chinese customer due to the tariffs, a customer with whom he had built a six-year relationship and whose custom represented a very large percentage of his revenue; the farmer noted that while the multi-billion dollar bail-outs offered by the Trump administration might help in the short term, he, and other farmers, faced long-term losses they new were not going to be covered by Federal indemnifications; once those customers were gone, they were probably gone forever...

It should be interesting in 2020 to see how Trump fares in those states that are going to be so hard hit by idiot trade machinations. In regards to the farms, at first the announced cost was US 5 Billion dollars; then it was US 12 Billion dollars and, now, it is said to be US 16 Billion dollars; and that is just the given amounts: there is no comprehensive gauge of the financial impact on ancillary and/or related businesses. So far, I haven't heard of China paying a single Yuan of the tariffs...

Farmers vote, as do their families, neighbors, business associates, etc. Trump won in a lot of farm states by a whisper of votes: will that whisper be replaced by howls of disapproval come Election Day, 2020?...








<O>

[Rockstar]

I focussed on the de facto trade and currency war when saying that China'S quiver of arrows is almost full, and America'S almost or even is empty. The taxes by Trump can be and have been countered by currency devaluation by China. China has de facto forbidden agricultural imports from america, which has to be swallowed by some core group of Trump'S voters.

Whatever Trump throws at China in these conflicts, currency and taxes and economy - China can counter it, and than retaliate some more.

And what else can Trump now do? There is not much left.

The boycot on Huawei only will have short and medium-term effects, for it was the starting signal for the Chinese to focus stronger on producing the American-imported components themselves from near future on. And they can ban Microsoft, Facebook, Google and the likes completely on the Chinese market, if needed. Wjhat Trump can do, the Chinese can as well.

Face it, Rockstar: so far Bejing has played with Trump very nicely and gently.

Further, the currency devaluation competition wanted by Trump and now done by Bejing, hurts exporting nations different from these two. The Euro becomes more expensive by these acts, and so do European (=German) exports. It will not get forgotten, at some future opportunity the bill for this will be sent to Washington in return.

Militarily, I think since years already that an American victory should not be taken for granted. And the balance in these years has constantly shifted in favour of the Chinese. I think due to the fact that such a war would be fought close to China, the chances are better for China already now. Land based missiles, land based air power, logistics and length of supply lines, number of navy units in service and in production: it all counts for the Chinese. Plus the circumstance that China and Russia have not hidden their new-found military cooperation. All together that makes for some very tough nut to crack. And the qualiuty of the Chiense forces today is not that of 30 years ago. Their modernization program and its speed was breathtaking in the past 15 years. Technologically they may not yet be totally oen par with the US, but numbers and supply lines more than make up for compensating the remaining difference. The US would need to kill much of the navy and supporting infrastructure on land, and their air force - China only needs to sink one or two carriers and a small part of the operational US submarines in the region, while China's public opinion at home can sustain much higher losses on sea, than would the American public.


I will only go out on the limb to say that China and the U.S. each has it's own economic strengths and weaknesses. We could spend days pointing them out and just scratch the surface. But from what I've read China is not some unstoppable economic juggernaut that can win the day by simply devaluing the Yuan a few points, by doing so they are just buying a little time and some good PR.

Considering China's recent history of occupation, abuse and humiliation by the British and other foreign powers they are not gonna be quick to back down. Again, its things like this which can turn into a shooting war real quick. I for one take nothing for granted and never ever underestimate your enemy.

[vienna]

Underestimating the enemy, overestimating his actual position, and taking things for granted has been the core of Trump's mis-administration and the core weakness of himself. If he listened, even a bit, to the counsel of those in far better positions to understand the myriad complexities of issues he seems to think can be addressed by simplistic sloganeering and cartoonish posturing, we might be in a better position as a country...


2020 and the change in administration can't come son enough...







<O>

[Rockstar]

According to FED Chair testimony its the chinese economy that has been slowing down for quite sometime now. On the otherhand he said ours is doing much better. A case of strike while the iron's hot I guess.

[Skybird]

War cannot be about suffering no own losses, it is about suffering less losses or being able to digest losses better, than the enemy.



https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Farticle 198243853%2FHandelskrieg-Fuer-den-Sieg-opfert-China-sein-groesstes-Versprechen.html

[Rockstar]

https://translate.google.de/translat...rsprechen.html (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Farticle 198243853%2FHandelskrieg-Fuer-den-Sieg-opfert-China-sein-groesstes-Versprechen.html)


But Beijing has a lot more in the quiver.

"The Chinese government may ask its citizens to boycott American goods," says Luca Paolini, chief strategist at Swiss private bank Pictet. "For example, it might call for it to stop buying iPhones." For Beijing, it would be easy to raise popular sentiment to follow the call. I agree a Chinese authoritarian government could quite easily rally the masses and party faithful to stop buying iphone's. But what happens when they boycott Apple? We still have quivers too. Almost a year ago there was talk that if the tariff wars really heat up APPLE could move manufacturing elsewhere. What does that mean for the worker in China? They lose their jobs, they dont have money to spend to support their own economy, to buy Chinese goods or support their families. China is primarily a foreign investor manufacturing hub and an export driven economy. They lose that and the feces will really hit the rotating oscillator then.


If they sold off or stopped buying treasury bonds that would hurt. But if they did, they would in essence be shooting themselves in the foot too. Read a little why they buy them to begin with. No matter how many times they pinned the Yuan their economy would take a nose dive and hard. Granted no easy ride for either of us I think if they did that.

[August]

One of the better explanations about the myth of the "Southern Strategy"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiprVX4os2Y

[Dowly]

Figured you'd eat up the **** PragerU produces. :)


For those not aware: PragerU is constantly caught of cherry picking and presenting false information. It is essentially a propaganda channel.

[em2nought]

I'm pretty sure Epstein's (ummmm) suicide now belongs in the US Politics thread. :D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7344181/Billionaire-Jeffrey-Epstein-dies-suicide-inside-Manhattan-jail-cell.html


Good to see the FBI on the job as I have complete faith in them. :har:

[Platapus]

I am sure that will bring out the conspiracy nutters.

[August]

Figured you'd eat up the **** PragerU produces. :)


For those not aware: PragerU is constantly caught of cherry picking and presenting false information. It is essentially a propaganda channel.


Any actual facts contained in the video that you care to dispute or is your entire argument going to be that you don't like the source? Hmmm?

Is this Vanderbilt University professor wrong? Is she lying?

[Mr Quatro]

I'm pretty sure Epstein's (ummmm) suicide now belongs in the US Politics thread. :D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7344181/Billionaire-Jeffrey-Epstein-dies-suicide-inside-Manhattan-jail-cell.html


Good to see the FBI on the job as I have complete faith in them. :har:


Yes this belongs in the US Politics thread and the UK thread and the German thread and in the Russian thread and in the funny pictures thread too :haha:


Could this be one of those assisted suicides ? (for money of course)

The Clinton's trail gets longer :o

[Platapus]

I was right :D

[Onkel Neal]

I am sure that will bring out the conspiracy nutters.

Lol, excellent preemption. So, there can be NO suspicion of foul play? Anyone who has doubts is a nutter, open and shut?

On CNN right now they are discussing the powerful people who will benefit from his "suicide"...

[August]

I was right :D


Well it's no conspiracy that he managed to hang himself in spite of supposedly being under 24/7 suicide watch.

[Dowly]

Any actual facts contained in the video that you care to dispute or is your entire argument going to be that you don't like the source? Hmmm?Republicans themselves have acknowledged the existence of a 'southern strategy' number of times over the years.


Is this Vanderbilt University professor wrong? Is she lying?
Yes and yes.

[August]

Republicans themselves have acknowledged the existence of a 'southern strategy' number of times over the years.[quote]


So your answer is yes then.


[quote]Yes and yes.

I see. So do you think she was paid to betray her race? Or maybe she is just a dupe of white supremacist propaganda?

[Dowly]

So your answer is yes then.
The video concludes that the 'southern strategy' is a myth. That is demonstrably false.
The three points she talks about are all correct, but presented in a misleading way.
Classic case of mixing truth with lies.

I see. So do you think she was paid to betray her race? Or maybe she is just a dupe of white supremacist propaganda?Paying black woman to talk about subject such as this lends it credibility.
"It must be true. Why would she say something like that, herself being black, if it wasnt?"
Or as you put it: "betray her race"

[August]

The video concludes that the 'southern strategy' is a myth. That is demonstrably false.
The three points she talks about are all correct, but presented in a misleading way.
Classic case of mixing truth with lies.

Paying black woman to talk about subject such as this lends it credibility.
"It must be true. Why would she say something like that, herself being black, if it wasnt?"
Or as you put it: "betray her race"


Hey it's your side that plays racial identity politics, i'm just trying to speak your language. Try reading the videos comments. She is called a sell out and worse because she bucks the party line for black people.

As to being misleading the time line problems with the theory are quite clear. Heck the Dems leading presidential candidate was just recently bragging about his ability to work with segregationist Democrat Senators over a decade later.

[Platapus]

Lol, excellent preemption. So, there can be NO suspicion of foul play? Anyone who has doubts is a nutter, open and shut?

On CNN right now they are discussing the powerful people who will benefit from his "suicide"...


There should a tiny thing called evidence. :up:


But people do love their conspiracies, especially if it confirms biases. :yeah:

[Onkel Neal]

Sure, but is it unusual to look for evidence and gather evidence based on reasonable suspicion? The investigative process is a progression of activities and steps moving from evidence gathering tasks, to information analysis, to theory development and validation, to forming reasonable ground to believe, and finally to the arrest and charge of a suspect.

Or, just straight to nuttiness?

[Skybird]

I agree a Chinese authoritarian government could quite easily rally the masses and party faithful to stop buying iphone's. But what happens when they boycott Apple? We still have quivers too. Almost a year ago there was talk that if the tariff wars really heat up APPLE could move manufacturing elsewhere. What does that mean for the worker in China? They lose their jobs, they dont have money to spend to support their own economy, to buy Chinese goods or support their families. China is primarily a foreign investor manufacturing hub and an export driven economy. They lose that and the feces will really hit the rotating oscillator then.


If they sold off or stopped buying treasury bonds that would hurt. But if they did, they would in essence be shooting themselves in the foot too. Read a little why they buy them to begin with. No matter how many times they pinned the Yuan their economy would take a nose dive and hard. Granted no easy ride for either of us I think if they did that.


Take note of this passage in nthe linked text:



But not only US companies could be the target of a Chinese attack. "Even the Chinese holdings of US bonds are part of the arsenal," says Andrew Bosomworth, Germany CEO of Pimco, the largest bond investor in the world. Because China owns more than $ 1.1 trillion worth of US promissory notes, making it the country's largest foreign creditor.

A sell-off would plummet the stock market and, in turn, dramatically increase yields, that is interest rates, while Trump currently desires nothing more than a drop in US interest rates to support the economy and ensure its re-election , So far, everyone has always assumed that China would not take this step because it would hurt itself as well - its currency could come under appreciation pressure. But Andrew Bosomworth is not sure anymore. "Selling the bonds (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.welt.de/themen/anleihen/&xid=25657,15700021,15700186,15700190,15700256,1570 0259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhjAOkjATMf2DveR7Dig05YABALrnQ) would hurt China itself," he says, "but even more so for the US." And that's what war ultimately is all about: it's not about avoiding your own losses; Losses are lower than those of the opponent.



I have wanre do fntis in postiongs already severla years ago. They can more eaisly affor dhgiher losses, than thew US. And they will accept it if that is what needed to win the war with the US.



They have just started to retaliate a bit more serious. The US is more vulnerable in this.



And you overestimate the need of theirs to prouce for US. The Huawei confrontation has just pushed them to beocme independent from US compoanies rgardign certain chips and the Android OS. You showed them that they want to become stronger. And they are already in the middle of a move to focus much stronger on Asian market and labor market, than on producing for US hich tech companies.




Your grab on them is loosing. Rapidly. And there is nothing you can do abot that.



Maybe you have also noted that since two or three quarters central banks throughout the world buy real gold like crazym before it was just Russia, India and China. You may think the dollar is your best weapon. I say it is the most tasty target for sinking your boat. And they will try that once they see fit. No matter their own losses. Mark my words. Russia and China are acting since years to unlink from the dollar regime, and maybe the whole idea of paper counterfeit money.

[August]

Hey Dorothy, it doesn't help your racial justice crusade to use a petty criminal thug as your poster boy.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/opinions/ferguson-five-years-later-brown/index.html

[Mr Quatro]

This thought process on why did Epstein do himself in before the trial does not compute.

He had nothing to lose to wait till after the trial ... a man with unlimited funds could buy protection, food, comfortable cell and even sex.

Dark secrets did Epstein in ... who knew more than the women themselves besides Epstein and of course his customers.

Someone with very high connections ordered this suicide to hide their involvement. It could even be a very high executive in the Federal Government trying to protect an old boss.

Someone looked the other way just hours after Epstein was taken off of suicide watch. :yep:

Don't you just love mysteries and try to figure them out?

I do :yep:

[Dowly]

As to being misleading the time line problems with the theory are quite clear.
1928, 1952 and 1956 were all landslide victories, doesn't say much more than the winning candidate was very popular in general, or in case of Hoover, the losing candidate was very unpopular. She just kinda forgets to mention those pesky details. Or that Little Rock was in 1957, a year after the election. See what I mean by misleading and false information?
If she's right, why mislead and lie?

[August]

Winning candidate? Did you even listen to it? She was talking about Senators, Congressman, Governors, city councils, Sheriffs. All the local governments that were, and remained, in Democrat hands for far longer than what jibes with the theory of a GoP takeover of those states.

[Onkel Neal]

Hey Dorothy, it doesn't help your racial justice crusade to use a petty criminal thug as your poster boy.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/08/opinions/ferguson-five-years-later-brown/index.html

You got that right. That opinion piece is racist garbage itself, she sure doesn't address the racism Michael Brown displayed when he used physical violence against that older, much smaller minority store owner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF-VVJ3cdO0

[em2nought]

You got that right. That opinion piece is racist garbage itself, she sure doesn't address the racism Michael Brown displayed when he used physical violence against that older, much smaller minority store owner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF-VVJ3cdO0


Those fellas clearly work too hard, their assets need to be redistributed to the community they serve. "Donating" $80,000 in liquor and cigarettes is not enough! :D

[vienna]

Catching up...


Re: Epstein...

My very first thought the second I heard the news about his death was, "Oh great, now we're going to have all the tinfoil hats of both ends of the wingnut scale coming out of the woodwork." I'm waiting for the investigations to complete before I make a final opinion, but I do want to throw this into the pot: what if it wasn't any of the purported outside interests who 'engineered' Epstein's demise, but, rather, Epstein pulling his own 'Hermann Göring', bribing the guards to look the other way while he took his exit? Maybe it was no one's fault but his...


By any means, good riddance to some very bad rubbish...




Re; The Southern Strategy...

Racism and bigotry knows no strict assignment of political, social, economic, racial, religious, etc., provenance nor sustenance. There's plenty of blame to be spread around and, no matter who engages in such deplorable activity, it is morally and legally repugnant. As far as the Strategy is concerned, if it didn't exist, then why did the GOP, via its then Chairman, Ken Mehlman, in 2005, in a speech to the NAACP Convention,apologize for the GOP's politicization of the race issue in the period following the passage of the Civil Rights Act? If there was no de facto organized effort to make political gain from the DEM loss of Southern support, then why apologize? I don't know about anyone else, but I am not very likely to apologize for something I didn't do, particularly if I am being accused of a heinous action...


GOP Apologizes for Southern Strategy --

http://inside.sfuhs.org/dept/history/US_History_reader/Chapter14/southernstrat2.htm


...and there is from 2012 this regarding a 1981 interview given by Lee Atwater, GOP strategist and advisor to Reagan and GHW Bush (he was also Bush's 1988 Campaign Manager) and well-known 'hard ball' campaigner, in which he acknowledges the strategy of divisive racial politics as a means for the GOP to make gains...


Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy --

https://www.thenation.com/article/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/


So, we have a GOP Party Chairman aplolgizing for, and a GOP White House Advisor and Presidential campaign manager discussing a strategy the Trump minions and the Far-Right GOP are trying to claim didn't exist...

...and there was Candace Owens who tried to deny the existence of a Southern Strategy by, effectively, lying to Congress during a hearing on hate crimes...


Candace Owens' false statement that the Southern strategy is a myth --

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2019/apr/10/candace-owens/candace-owens-pants-fire-statement-southern-strate/


For something that didn't/doesn't exist, it sure has left a lot of 'fingerprints' at the scenes of its crimes...


What quite obviously doesn't exist is the honesty, integrity, morality and intelligence of the deniers...


...but, then, I guess, when it looks like the SS Trumptanic is headed for that 2020 iceberg, taking the GOP down with it, desperation is bound to set in...






<O>

[vienna]

Those fellas clearly work too hard, their assets need to be redistributed to the community they serve. "Donating" $80,000 in liquor and cigarettes is not enough! :D


Gee, I don't know...

I heard about someone who advocated inclusion, diversity, redistribution of wealth, tolerance, you know, all those socialist, liberal things; didn't go to well for him: they literally crucified him. But hey I hear his followers are 'honoring' his memory and his ethos by doing just the opposite... :D






<O>

[em2nought]

Gee, I don't know...

I heard about someone who advocated inclusion, diversity, redistribution of wealth, tolerance, you know, all those socialist, liberal things; didn't go to well for him: they literally crucified him. But hey I hear his followers are 'honoring' his memory and his ethos by doing just the opposite... :D






<O>


I don't think "that" guy wanted people to become alcoholics or get cancer from cigarettes. :hmmm: Walking around in sandals, I don't think "that" guy wanted the streets full of poo or rats either. His was a fish based diet also, very different from the Maduro diet. :D

[Buddahaid]

...the SS Trumptanic is headed for that 2020 iceberg...
<O>

Tell me you made that up! :haha:

[August]

Dems have been prognosticating Trumps demise for going on three years now. They ain't been right yet.

[Mr Quatro]

Dems have been prognosticating Trumps demise for going on three years now. They ain't been right yet.


Who could ever forget the polls indicating that Hillary was going to win or Senator Mitch Mcconel saying after the election "I didn't think Trump had a chance in hell of winning" :yep:

[vienna]

Tell me you made that up! :haha:


Guilty as charged, all mine... :D






<O>

[vienna]

I don't think "that" guy wanted people to become alcoholics or get cancer from cigarettes. :hmmm: Walking around in sandals, I don't think "that" guy wanted the streets full of poo or rats either. His was a fish based diet also, very different from the Maduro diet. :D


IIRC, he was persecuted by conservative religious fanatic fundamentalists, filled with their own hypocrisies, which he notably called out ("he without sin..."...) because he chose to associate, not with the wealthy, influential, political, but, rather, with those on the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, those marginalized and despised by the "good" religious hypocrites; he lived the life of The Law fr more than those who espoused and claimed, falsely to be following the scriptures; he expressed ire and wrath notably against the money lenders in the temple; can you imagine the extent of that ire and wrath if he were to see the state of his "faithful" today? Who do you think would be highest on his list of cleansing? Would he see the false Pharisees in today's televangelists, see the moral hypocrites who believe they, alone, should dictate what is right and wrong (they'd throw stones if they could hire someone to do it for them...), see the sheer hatred which flies blatantly in the face of The Law?; would he see all that and more and what would he do to correct the failings?...

Odd that you preferred to bring up alcoholism, cigarette addiction, "poo", and diets rather than actually address what was being presented. Deflect, deflect, deflect... :03:






<O>

[em2nought]

Odd that you preferred to bring up alcoholism, cigarette addiction, "poo", and diets rather than actually address what was being presented. Deflect, deflect, deflect... :03:<O>


That's because what's being presented is such B.S. :03: Conservatives want to give people a sense of dignity and a job, liberal elitists want to give them free stuff paid for by taxpayers in exchange for votes.

[u crank]

..see the moral hypocrites who believe they, alone, should dictate what is right and wrong...

That is a pretty accurate discription of todays Progressive Left.

[Catfish]

That is a pretty accurate discription of todays Progressive Left.


Ah this is your opinion. Here's another :O:

https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/right-wingers-more-stupid-and-racist-than-liberals-finds-report-31975

[u crank]

Ah this is your opinion. Here's another :O:


The report give the caveat: "Clearly, however, all socially conservative people are not prejudiced, and all prejudiced persons are not conservative."


:O::O:

[Catfish]

"Progressives are not stupid and evil. Conservatives are not racists and misogynists. Our fellow Americans who disagree with us are not our enemies. They are our fellow Americans who differ with us. And we should not put up with politicians, on the left or right, who can’t seem to understand this."
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article206279209.html


Unfortunately hate speech and words alone often lead to certain behaviour and action, and i indeed blame this on Trump.

[u crank]

Unfortunately hate speech and words alone often lead to certain behaviour and action, and i indeed blame this on Trump.

So if protesters outside of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's house suggest that he should be killed that's Trump's fault?

[Catfish]

Hate speech and words have consequences.
https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-paso-dayton-shootings-august-2019/index.html

Certain behaviour also influences children
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/racism-words-acts-el-paso-shooting-harm-children-health-longterm

Trump sure introduced a new low level of "communication" in his "speeches".

[u crank]

Trump sure introduced a new low level of "communication" in his "speeches".

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.

Hillary Clinton

So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Barack Obama

Trump didn't start the conversation. The targets are different but the intent is the same. Marginalizing a group of people for political gain.

The whole point of my quoting Vienna's post was to point out that there are moral hypocrites on both sides. Do you agree?

[Catfish]

[…] The whole point of my quoting Vienna's post was to point out that there are moral hypocrites on both sides. Do you agree?
Being a hypocrite, i say i do.

[em2nought]

Frustrating when the foundation funds run low, and you don't have enough to pay off the coroner too. :D https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-had-multiple-broken-bones-in-neck-autopsy-report-2019-8

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, the conspiracy grows!

Multiple news sources ( not Fox news) confirm unusual broken bones in Epstein's neck....more consistent with homicide than suicide...

Guards (plural) "asleep" when Epstein's death occurred in a facility that had only seen one suicide in 40 years...

Guards falsified records....

Epstein's lawyers say he was upbeat about getting a deal in exchange for his testimony...

Hmmm... Sure it could be suicide. But it could as easily be a hit job. I would think if it was a hit, it won't be easy to keep it covered up.

[Skybird]

Two very concerned Islamic ladies were refused to enter Israel after they threw plenty of mud at it and demanded a boycott against it. They just cannot understand why the victim of their smearing campaign just does not ignore their deeds and nevertheless welcomes them at much shorter throwing distance. :D

[Mr Quatro]

Yeah, the conspiracy grows!

Multiple news sources ( not Fox news) confirm unusual broken bones in Epstein's neck....more consistent with homicide than suicide...

Guards (plural) "asleep" when Epstein's death occurred in a facility that had only seen one suicide in 40 years...

Guards falsified records....

Epstein's lawyers say he was upbeat about getting a deal in exchange for his testimony...

Hmmm... Sure it could be suicide. But it could as easily be a hit job. I would think if it was a hit, it won't be easy to keep it covered up.

True ... No way you can hide this one ... The one I can't understand is Epstein's attorneys requesting that their client be taken off suicide watch. Looks like they would want him to stay alive in order to keep getting paid.

[August]

Yeah, the conspiracy grows!

Multiple news sources ( not Fox news) confirm unusual broken bones in Epstein's neck....more consistent with homicide than suicide...

Guards (plural) "asleep" when Epstein's death occurred in a facility that had only seen one suicide in 40 years...

Guards falsified records....

Epstein's lawyers say he was upbeat about getting a deal in exchange for his testimony...

Hmmm... Sure it could be suicide. But it could as easily be a hit job. I would think if it was a hit, it won't be easy to keep it covered up.


I'm beginning to think if was indeed a hit job it could just have been via deliberate neglect. He wanted to kill himself anyways so instead of murdering him they just substituted a real sheet in place of the paper ones normally issued and gave him the opportunity to use it. Possibly with a few off the record comments about his immediate future as a jail house punk to put an edge on his motivation.

[mapuc]

Some days ago I heard on the news about some investigation into his suicide.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy, but I couldn't help thinking.

Will this investigation be a controlled version, which mean the outcome is known ?

Markus

[Skybird]

Comment from the Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) why Europe probably will face a grim wakeup when hoping that the US will return to cosy old ways if Democrats would win next elections. As a matter of fact the US already started to turn away from Europe under Obama. And its getting tired to serve as the global police man and defender of world liberty and democracy.

And with healf-hearted allies like Europeans, who could be angry at them...?

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nzz.ch%2Fmeinung%2Fdie-weltmacht-amerika-wendet-sich-nach-innen-mit-oder-ohne-trump-ld.1500896

[mapuc]

About a week ago it was big news here in Denmark.

Then it was said it wasn't exactly true

and some say it is.

I don't care if it's true or not whether Trump want to buy Greenland or not.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/trump-buy-greenland-wall-street-journal/index.html

Markus

[August]

About a week ago it was big news here in Denmark.

Then it was said it wasn't exactly true

and some say it is.

I don't care if it's true or not whether Trump want to buy Greenland or not.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/trump-buy-greenland-wall-street-journal/index.html

Markus




Not a new idea. I believe the Truman administration actually made an offer for Greenland after WW2.

[mapuc]

I had planned to post a comment on Mr. Trumps bad behavior, after his briefing outside his Airforce 1.

Where he suddenly said-Maybe I will visit Denmark or don't I haven't decided yet.

Then late last night he posted a Tweet where he had cancelled his visit in Denmark.

He had a standing invitation from The Danish Queen and he had invited himself.

But because he couldn't buy Greenland he's not interested in a visit.

As mentioned before I have a neutral standpoint when it comes to the President of USA.
I have difficulty to keep a neutral standpoint when it comes to his acting as a person, especially in this case

Markus

[skidman]

No need to stay neutral here. Trump is an imbecile, a childish narcissist, and a clueless but nevertheless dangerous incendiarist.

[August]

No need to stay neutral here. Trump is an imbecile, a childish narcissist, and a clueless but nevertheless dangerous incendiarist.


Well, says you anyways. :up:

[Skybird]

If they would build a Trieste III to explore the lowest lows below the known lows of social behaviour, Trump would be first choice as captain of it.

[Platapus]

I think we can all take great comfort now that we know that Trump is "the chosen one".

[mapuc]

I respect people supporting a President or a politician.

But...a person should never stand back in criticizing this elected person when needed.

Those of my friends who support him, are finding excuses on his behalf.

And that's not good.

Markus

[Dowly]

Well, says you anyways. :up:https://i.imgur.com/je0kBPE.gif

[Buddahaid]

I think we can all take great comfort now that we know that Trump is "the chosen one".

I've become numb to feeling embarrassed that poser is my countries leader. What a childish schmuck!

Hello world, please don't feed, rattle the cage, or try to talk to the primate in chief. It upsets the homo trumpiens and makes the cage hard to clean.

[eddie]

I've become numb to feeling embarrassed that poser is my countries leader. What a childish schmuck!

Hello world, please don't feed, rattle the cage, or try to talk to the primate in chief. It upsets the homo trumpiens and makes the cage hard to clean.


:agree: :haha::haha:

[eddie]

I think we can all take great comfort now that we know that Trump is "the chosen one".


He's the King of Israel too,lol

[Jimbuna]

I find the whole scenario quite embarrassing.

[eddie]

Pretty much Jim, and really sad to to see him acting this way, but what else could you expect from him!

[August]

https://i.imgur.com/je0kBPE.gif


No fake Miami vice cop speaks for me!

[vienna]

No fake Miami vice cop speaks for me!


No, just a fake reality TV faux-billionaire with questionable intelligence, woeful lack of knowledge, suspect mental stability, flawed ethics and morals...


...that's who speaks for you...









<O>

[u crank]

Ok I get it. The Orange man is bad. A terrible person. He says things that make people cry. He tells lies and makes up stuff. Some people think that's awful. I really don't care about that stuff so much. It's the really bad stuff that he does that I don't like. The 'flawed ethical and moral' stuff. You know like say ... as President of the USA using government agencies like the IRS, FBI, CIA and the DOJ to go after his political enemies. And using some of those same agencies to help his preferred candidate in a Presidential election while trying to hinder the opposition's candidate. That's what I really don't like about Trump.


Oh wait, I'm old and my memory is not so good. No ... that wasn't Trump was it? It was some other guy. What was his name?

Help me out.

Anybody?

[vienna]

I'd say it sounds a lot like Trump and will be his probable 2020 election 'strategy' when he fully realizes he's royally screwed as far as being reelected...

What I'd really like to see is someone actually try to defend Trump and his actions/criminalities/ without pulling up the same old tired, lame "What abut Obama/Clinton, etc. ..." strawmen. You know, like, convince us why the US voters should put the disaster that is Trump back in office for another four years, while explaining why we should vote for a liar and conman supreme...

Me, I'm not worried about Obama or Clinton or anyone else who is not actually in power or delegated power; they are irrelevant to the 2020 Election; the only ones relevant are Trump and whoever beats him in 2020...

As far as abusive use of power and co-opting government agencies go, I don't recall any other President, of either party, who made blind loyalty to the President as a prime condition of appointment to the Cabinet, agencies, or any other leadership role in their administrations. The very fact well over 60 Trump appointees have been fired or resigned after daring to oppose or contradicting Trump is either a testament to the very poor selection skills odf Trump or a testament to the core corruption by Trump of a once respected office....

So, go ahead, without finger pointing at people who really don't matter, tell us why a liar, idiot, buffoon, fraud, crook and "Yuuuuge" national embarrassment is worthy of our votes....

...or is your only defense "But, they did it, too!"...?...


...because if that's the case and you ar, indeed, morally and ethically outraged by the strawmen you raise up to bolster Trump, then why are you merely saying criminality should continue and not be stopped?...






<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Ok I get it. The Orange man is bad. A terrible person. He says things that make people cry. He tells lies and makes up stuff. Some people think that's awful. I really don't care about that stuff so much. It's the really bad stuff that he does that I don't like. The 'flawed ethical and moral' stuff. You know like say ... as President of the USA using government agencies like the IRS, FBI, CIA and the DOJ to go after his political enemies. And using some of those same agencies to help his preferred candidate in a Presidential election while trying to hinder the opposition's candidate. That's what I really don't like about Trump.


Oh wait, I'm old and my memory is not so good. No ... that wasn't Trump was it? It was some other guy. What was his name?

Help me out.

Anybody?

Thank you u crank I was afraid it was down to just August and me to defend President Trump ... I don't really defend him, because he does make some strange moves ... Almost everyday the news finds something to harp on that Trump said wrong.

My line of thinking is that no one yet is a better choice at least as far as the democrats have produced. Perhaps another Republican can step forward to challenge Trump in the next 14 months and two weeks before the November 2020 National Election, but he or she must be a sleeper.

Make no mistake in thinking that the majority of voters want to see this country to down the socialists road of open borders of college debts forgiven or free medical that is going to cost someone. See through the democrats courting the votes of the past, present and future immigrants.

Laugh at Trump all you want no one better to lead our country is stepping forward. :hmmm:

[u crank]

I'd say it sounds a lot like Trump and will be his probable 2020 election 'strategy' when he fully realizes he's royally screwed as far as being reelected...

Hmm? There's some projection.

What I'd really like to see is someone actually try to defend Trump and his actions/criminalities/ without pulling up the same old tired, lame "What abut Obama/Clinton, etc. ..." strawmen.

I for one am not trying to defend Trump. Pointing out the illegal activities of one administration is not a defence of another. Then again I guess you and I have different view points on what is 'flawed ethics and morals'. The very same people who crow about one person's 'morals and ethics' are quite willing to overlook someone else's when it is politically expedient.

Me, I'm not worried about Obama or Clinton or anyone else who is not actually in power or delegated power;


You may not be but that doesn't mean it isn't relative or important. It certainly doesn't make it any less 'ethical or moral' just because these people are no longer in power. That's not the standard by which these things are judged. Or should we just let that kind of thing slide. Will you give Trump that same leeway when he is out of power? Some people have no intention of doing so.

So, go ahead, without finger pointing at people who really don't matter,..

And there's the flaw in your argument. They do matter. It does matter. The way to prevent such a thing from happening again is to say that it does matter and to expose it. Some people care, some don't.

..tell us why a liar, idiot, buffoon, fraud, crook and "Yuuuuge" national embarrassment is worthy of our votes....

:D

I don't think he's looking for your vote man.:O:

[Rockstar]

I'd say it sounds a lot like Trump and will be his probable 2020 election 'strategy' when he fully realizes he's royally screwed as far as being reelected...

What I'd really like to see is someone actually try to defend Trump and his actions/criminalities/ without pulling up the same old tired, lame "What abut Obama/Clinton, etc. ..." strawmen. You know, like, convince us why the US voters should put the disaster that is Trump back in office for another four years, while explaining why we should vote for a liar and conman supreme...

Me, I'm not worried about Obama or Clinton or anyone else who is not actually in power or delegated power; they are irrelevant to the 2020 Election; the only ones relevant are Trump and whoever beats him in 2020...

As far as abusive use of power and co-opting government agencies go, I don't recall any other President, of either party, who made blind loyalty to the President as a prime condition of appointment to the Cabinet, agencies, or any other leadership role in their administrations. The very fact well over 60 Trump appointees have been fired or resigned after daring to oppose or contradicting Trump is either a testament to the very poor selection skills odf Trump or a testament to the core corruption by Trump of a once respected office....

So, go ahead, without finger pointing at people who really don't matter, tell us why a liar, idiot, buffoon, fraud, crook and "Yuuuuge" national embarrassment is worthy of our votes....

...or is your only defense "But, they did it, too!"...?...


...because if that's the case and you ar, indeed, morally and ethically outraged by the strawmen you raise up to bolster Trump, then why are you merely saying criminality should continue and not be stopped?...
<O>




Are you saying criminality can be stopped by not voting for Trump? I think we're all well aware that historically politicians from all backgrounds and party affiliation have be involved in nefarious misdeeds. IMHO a majority of voters and outside observers are politically ignorant buffoons and idiots which in turn beget politically ignorant, buffoons and idiots in office. Voters and outside observers do not arm themselves with informed ideas and opinions on how to govern a nation. Rather they rely on gender, skin color, emotional rants on social media and watch the news looking for the best dressed and most popular person for president. Remember that Hope and Change slogan? Many people became so enamored by it and got all emotional and teary eyed. But not once did anyone think to ask just what in hell exactly did that mean? lol.

Obviously you aren't voting for Trump. So I ask, who do you think will give us the truth and leadership, instead of pandering to special interests, cheap slogans, sound bites and acting lessons? Go ahead name just one and I'd wager anyone here would be able make several similar comparisons of them to Trump. The real argument is to what degree of criminality, idiocy, buffoonery, fraud and lying is acceptable to you and if they look and act presidential.

[u crank]

Thank you u crank I was afraid it was down to just August and me to defend President Trump ...

Mr Quatro I'm not defending President Trump with any political bias. I'm just an interested observer. Heck I can't vote in your country. Yet. :D

I think Trump is very vunerable in 2020 but the current front runners for the Dems look bad. And sad. Gonna be interesting.

Repeat after me without laughing.

President Bernie Sanders.

:har:

[vienna]

Mr Quatro I'm not defending President Trump with any political bias. I'm just an interested observer. Heck I can't vote in your country. Yet. :D





Yet? Don't tell us Trump has made an offer to buy Canada, too!?!...







<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Mr Quatro I'm not defending President Trump with any political bias. I'm just an interested observer. Heck I can't vote in your country. Yet. :D

I think Trump is very vunerable in 2020 but the current front runners for the Dems look bad. And sad. Gonna be interesting.

Repeat after me without laughing.

President Bernie Sanders.

:har:

I understand ... Your wisdom is showing like a bright light on a dark subject :yep:

[mapuc]

I have nothing against Trump. He is your President and thereby your problems(mostly)

Furthermore I'm all alone in this Greenland issue.

I'm the only one who have criticized both Trump and the Danish government and some of the Danish politicians.

Markus

[August]

I have nothing against Trump. He is your President and thereby your problems(mostly)

Furthermore I'm all alone in this Greenland issue.

I'm the only one who have criticized both Trump and the Danish government and some of the Danish politicians.

Markus


You Danes are the only ones standing in the way of Evil Orange Mans attempt to surround Canada. :up:

[Catfish]

Trump trying to rewrite history

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://de.sputniknews.com/kommentare/20190822325637101-trump-russland-g8-einladung/&xid=17259,15700022,15700186,15700190,15700256,1570 0259,15700262,15700265&usg=ALkJrhiny4J7DblSoOOyMsZ0UjQFZDBoLQ

[Rockstar]

The media and foreign policy experts mantraously repeat the thesis that the US president is lying, and that Russia has in fact been expelled from the G8, not because Putin outwitted Obama, but because Russia allegedly illegally annexed Crimea and continues to support the separatists in Ukraine. I love this part "mantraously repeat" thats right boys and girls its drilled into our brains 24/7. Russia evil, NATO good. Therefore Russia's annexation of Crimea must be illegal! Oh wait it did say it was allegedly illegal. Sure you may not like Trump, you may not like Putin, you may not like Russia. Personal opinions aside do tell, what international laws were broken? What precedents have been previously set? Take a look and recent European history and Serbia, that's different huh, because NATO good. Serbia didn't recognize Kosovo's declareation of independence yet NATO sided with Kosovo. Lets not forget a little over 235 years ago U.S. independence from Britain was illegal too, yet the French came to our aid. So much for setting precedence seems to me nations only respect self-determination when what people want line up with their nations interests.



Ya but Trump! :roll: I am truly amazed at peoples obsessive behavior with this guy.

[Rockstar]

Pelosi said the House must weigh its “responsibility to protect and defend the Constitution” with the need to be “unifying and not dividing.”


Seems like she just hammered the last nail in the coffin of the Mueller investigation political boondoggle. Has she fallen under Trump's spell of criminality, usurping constitutional authority etc etc. Or realizing that all the petty butthurt cry babies need to deal with it until 2020 and decide by vote whether or not he stays in office.

[u crank]

Or realizing that all the petty butthurt cry babies need to deal with it until 2020 and decide by vote whether or not he stays in office.

And there's your trouble. The Dems are scared, no terrified about 2020. And that is because they know that like 2016 they don't have a candidate who can hit that grand slam homerun. No one was saying it out loud then and they're not now ...but they know it.

To quote pundit Victor Davis Hanson ...

Elections are not popularity contests. If they were, Trump might well lose handily, given that his approval ratings are consistently below 50 percent. Instead, they are choices between good and better — or bad and worse — candidates.

[ikalugin]

I would expect democrats to loose both 2020 and 2024.

[Rockstar]

I'm glad Pelosi had the wherewithal see it for what it is the courage to speak up and move on. May the best man or woman win!




God help us all. :wah:

[Platapus]

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190824155128-02-opinion-cartoons-0825-exlarge-169.jpg

[ikalugin]

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190824155128-02-opinion-cartoons-0825-exlarge-169.jpg
This sort of attitude is why I think Trump will win in 2020 and why I think some other Republican is going to win in 2024.

[Onkel Neal]

Joe Walsh announces Republican primary challenge against Trump (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-joe-walsh-announces-republican-primary-challenge-president/story?id=65122073)

Crossing my fingers :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

This sort of attitude is why I think Trump will win in 2020 and why I think some other Republican is going to win in 2024.


I dont know that what Platapus posted is all that bad. Political satire is very much a part of our politics. However the destructive vitriol, accusations and major butthurt we've witnessed dont think help anyones cause.

[u crank]

Joe Walsh announces Republican primary challenge against Trump (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-joe-walsh-announces-republican-primary-challenge-president/story?id=65122073)

Crossing my fingers :hmmm:

I always liked Joe. Hell of a guitar player. :rock:

[Rockstar]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-lmJM97LpFldf1Q8aZ2GfKhEtwhvYLDJ6G4BN7oGeBanKRDK8

[Jimbuna]

I always liked Joe. Hell of a guitar player. :rock:

Very much doubt he will succeed though.

[vienna]

Joe Walsh announces Republican primary challenge against Trump (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-joe-walsh-announces-republican-primary-challenge-president/story?id=65122073)

Crossing my fingers :hmmm:


I'd kind of like to see Paul Ryan toss his hat into the ring, although I don't think he is much inclined to do so...


Very much doubt he will succeed though.


Maybe not, but, in his usual condition, he wouldn't much really care...







<O>

[Skybird]

There is a stupid big boss man in Bolivia who encourages the destruction of the rain forest. There is a stupid big boss man in Brazil who encourages and allows the destruction of the rain forest. There are incompetent big boss men in Russia allowing the Siberian Tundra forests burning as bad as never before. And now there is a stupid big boss man in America who wants to allow the cutting of protected forests in Alaska.

Maybe we really should start cutting stupid big boss men before we get cut by their arrogance and ignorrance.

[Buddahaid]

https://youtu.be/qgWUnuB6quc

[Onkel Neal]

I'd kind of like to see Paul Ryan toss his hat into the ring, although I don't think he is much inclined to do so...





I kinda liked Ryan, his long standing aim of keeping America fiscally sound, supporting the working spirit, "shrinking the federal government by eliminating federal government departments, spending cuts, and restructuring entitlement spending". I think that's the attitude necessary to continue our prosperity.

I didn't think much of how he crumbled before Trump, though. But if he was to launch a campaign to beat Trump, I would support him wholeheartedly.

[vienna]

I kinda liked Ryan, his long standing aim of keeping America fiscally sound, supporting the working spirit, "shrinking the federal government by eliminating federal government departments, spending cuts, and restructuring entitlement spending". I think that's the attitude necessary to continue our prosperity.

I didn't think much of how he crumbled before Trump, though. But if he was to launch a campaign to beat Trump, I would support him wholeheartedly.


I think the 'crumbling' was less about being cowed by Trump and more about trying to walk a very fine edge: trying to manage and control the House, preventing the GOP in Congress totally going down the tubes following SS Trumptanic to the bottom compounded with the normal duties and responsibilities of House Speaker; it was a damn shame not enough of the House GOP (or the GOP Party, in general) was willing to back his play to counteract the destructiveness of Trump; Ryan was pretty much on his own and I think he knew the great debacle that was the loss of the House by the GOP was coming. He bowed out rather than be burdened with a further, unneeded and unwanted, leadership role in a minority party House delegation. He took a whole lot of hits trying to keep at least some sense of order and dignity in the GOP House and I think anyone who had to endure such a beating has to, at some point, decide if being the sole, high profile target with no upside is/was worth it. His leaving the House was not so much an acknowledgement of some personal defeat, but, rather, a testament to just how screwed up the GOP has become under Trump; and it doesn't look like its going to get any better: if Trump tanks the economy with his simple-minded, childish 'policies', the voters are going to not only turn on Trump, they're going to take out their frustrations on those who failed to rein him in; and it looks like, once again, a good number of GOP House members are bailing as they did before the 2016 mid-terms. I haven't seen the latest count, but there were at least a dozen GOP House members who have announced they are retiring or otherwise not running for reelection in 2020; and the Senate GOP is not fairing much better: three (3) GOP Senators have announced retirement versus one (1) DEM Senator. Since the GOP is only three Senators over the mid point of majority (50 members) and given the brutal uphill slog experienced by GOP Senate and House candidates in 2018, when conditions were arguably better than the current situation, and a lot better than what may be coming, the possibility of DEMs controlling both the Senate and the House is getting even more likely. If you think Trump is in deep guano with the GOP holding only one side of Congress, imagine what his condition, and the GOP's, will be if they lose all legislative control; of course, if Trump does run into that 2020 iceberg, and a DEM President takes the Oval Office, the GOP will really be screwed and they will have no one to blame bur themselves for backing such a jackass as Trump...


I'd really like to see Ryan run; I'd vote for him and I think a lot of other Independents would, also. Hell, maybe even not a few dissatisfied DEM voters might sign on...










<O>

[ikalugin]

@skybird

There are no forests in Tundra, very few trees survive there, you may be confusing it with Taiga. As to forest fires in Brazil, they are less severe this year than in the years before.

Ecology wise, Putin is actually pro Paris treaty from what I recall and one of his most trusted advisors went to run ecology department of administration. While this process was not without **** ups such as how the garbage reform is going or how illegal forest cutting and sales to China are still happening overall it is getting better.

[Skybird]

@skybird

There are no forests in Tundra, very few trees survive there, you may be confusing it with Taiga. As to forest fires in Brazil, they are less severe this year than in the years before.

Ecology wise, Putin is actually pro Paris treaty from what I recall and one of his most trusted advisors went to run ecology department of administration. While this process was not without **** ups such as how the garbage reform is going or how illegal forest cutting and sales to China are still happening overall it is getting better.
While you are right with Tundra versus Taiga, I mistook it, pretty much everybody opposes what else you said. The fires there are in Russia currently, are amongst the worst ever in the region. The fires in the rai forests that cover not just Brazil, but also its nighbourign states and were actively suppported by Bolivia's big boss man, are mostly small if taken one by one, but go into the tens of thosjands, and that is what makes this one of the biggest fire desaster seasons in South Americna history and makes it so difficult to fight against.


I wuld not trust Putin having singed a paper if later he finds that said paper stands in his interests' ways. The Kremlin knew early of the fires going out of contrpl this year - and did not intervene. Their is strong reason to assume that local governors could not ignore it this long without consent by the Kremlin. And it shard to not be aware of the scale of the fires.


Lets not white-.wash these things and make them appear as less than what they are. The scale of these desasters ranges amongst the biggest desasters of this type in decades.

[ikalugin]

We shouldn't black wash them so to speak either.


And you can look the statistics for fires in Brazil over the years, they were worse under the previous (more left leaning?) government.

https://wordpress.accuweather.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/globalfiredata-graph.png?w=805
You can verify this data independently.


Same applies elsewhere - forest fires are not the problem, their reporting is just means to ends.

[Jimbuna]

What is being reported though is that the largest numbers ever (approx. 90%) are deliberately started and man-made.

[ikalugin]

As to Putin - he is modestly pro-ecology in a number of aspects, but currently air and garbage polution are the core concerns for the public it seems. This in turn lead to the garbage reform where the garbage disposal was transfered from local organised crime to the Russian megacorporation - Rostech.


And even though Rostech is not doing as well as one would have hoped considering that they are getting budget funding for this stuff, this still allowed for a number of small grass roots ventures to appear in the area of sorting and recycling for example.

[Bera]

We shouldn't black wash them so to speak either.


And you can look the statistics for fires in Brazil over the years, they were worse under the previous (more left leaning?) government.

https://wordpress.accuweather.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/globalfiredata-graph.png?w=805
You can verify this data independently.


Same applies elsewhere - forest fires are not the problem, their reporting is just means to ends.


Hi! I´m from Brazil and this data is not right.


According to INPE - the brazilian Institute of Space Research, a governmental branch - on this month of august alone there were 23.677 fire focus points. Last year, there were 10.421. So we have a historic record.



Even though I speak a little Russian, I´m not aware of Vladimir Putin´s speech about environmental issues. But our President, Jair Bolsonaro, is dumb and completely idiot. His hate speeches seems to literally fan the flames. Here´s some examples:



"You just need to eat less. You talk to me about pollution. You just need to poop on alternate days, it would surely improve our life."


"[enveronmental issues] are only for vegans who don´t eat meat"


And one last thing: Bolsonaro fired INPE´s former director because he didn´t agree with the official data.

[Mr Quatro]

Welcome back Brea :up:

"You just need to eat less. You talk to me about pollution. You just need to poop on alternate days, it would surely improve our life."

Now that is dumb ... I've heard of the slash and burn farmers that make a living off of farms, bu this goes way beyond a few farmers.

I wonder how long it will take for the world to see that these fires have caused irreparable damage?

[Skybird]

True is that the Wetsern demand for palm oil (which is not a healthy oil to consume, btw.) and bio gasoline has done their part to encourage the massive increase in forest destruction to build space for new farming ground. The same progressives that talk of vegan food and bio fuel, help to widen the cultivation of according plants in monocultures.


The whole bio ane eco movement her ein the West, for most part imo bases on hypocrisy and deception. They do not realyl care to save the plkanetm, they just want to feel good themsleves by assuming that they did somethign good for the planet - but mostyl wiothout making saacriices themselves. That is the biggest lie her ein the West, amingst the buregoise neo-green middle-class: that a greener life and sfer panet copuld be bahd whgile not tackling both own consummation and population explosition in the third world.


IOn other words: Many people are just about the goof self-.image that makes them feel well, and do not really care for realistic means to save the pmanet. Because then they would need to study diabolic sciences like genetics and engineering, would need to become courageous and successful entrepreneurs, and claim toi positions of power from where they indeed could make a difference. It is so mnuch easier and more comfortable to just sit in an en-vogue cafe bar, slurpding your latte macciato from recacled paper cups, and lament about that every chuild in every Kita still is not being feed vegan.



Its about cool lifestyle for most of these figures, not about saving the planet. Fridays for Future - a big party it is, a theatre stage show that allows actors to feel so much more improtanmt than they are. Its a great "Sause", we would say in German.



If you put that in words frankly and directly, of cource you get bandmarked as the devil himself then.

[Skybird]

Just in: Trump wants to cut the forests in Alaska only as a means of preventing forest fires like in Brazil. Smart, that man! :yeah:

[Bera]

Just in: Trump wants to cut the forests in Alaska only as a means of preventing forest fires like in Brazil. Smart, that man! :yeah:


We could just chop off limbs from people, so there wouldn´t be more stealing! :k_confused:

[ikalugin]

@Bera if you would look at the graph that I have linked carefully you would see that I was talking about 00s (2000-2009) and not last year (2018).



As a person who has joined in 2007 you should be able to remember those years.

[ikalugin]

And so Trump tweets again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1167493371973255170

[August]

And so Trump tweets again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1167493371973255170


I don't know why we cover for you guys. This has Spetnaz written all over it!

[Dowly]

And so Trump tweets again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1167493371973255170
In other words: The US was involved.

Most often, what Trump says or tweets is the opposite of truth.

[ikalugin]

In other words: The US was involved.

Most often, what Trump says or tweets is the opposite of truth.
I think it was a massive troll, esp the last sentence.

[ikalugin]

I don't know why we cover for you guys. This has Spetnaz written all over it!
Why would we destroy an Iranian SLV?

[Rockstar]

so you can sell them new one? :D

[ikalugin]

I mean the whole point behind Iranian SLV is that it is Iranian.



Selling them a Russian SLV does not make sense if they want to develop a capability to design and build and launch SLVs. Technical assistance, maybe I guess.

[August]

In other words: The US was involved.

Most often, what Trump says or tweets is the opposite of truth.


TDS. :yep:

[Rockstar]

I mean the whole point behind Iranian SLV is that it is Iranian.



Selling them a Russian SLV does not make sense if they want to develop a capability to design and build and launch SLVs. Technical assistance, maybe I guess.


you make them an offer they can't refuse.

[vienna]

you make them an offer they can't refuse.


Hey, that's how Putin got Trump...


"So, Donny, you need money and you want to build big tower in Moscow? Hmm, we ca arrange for, say, Deutsche Bank to float you a few hundred million; the tower can come after you do us a favor; you see we'd like to really screw up your country's internal politics and public trust, so how's about you running for President for us? Da? Good. We knew you'd see it our way, what with you being in hock up to your eyeballs and no one else willing to do business with you. Oh and we have a few personnel 'recommendations' for ...)...


Thus, Trump ended up with his nose firmly lodged in the buttcrack of Putin... :D







<O>

[vienna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GqJna9hpTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ijDH3IecFA



D'ya think if Trump actually ever told the truth about anything, he would burst into flames?...







<O>

[u crank]

D'ya think if Trump actually ever told the truth about anything, he would burst into flames?...

If so there would be a lot of self-immolation in the political realm. So far it looks like in 2020 it may be a choice between two of them.

There are two possible explanations of Joe Biden’s inability to tell the truth about things: One is that his mind is failing him, the other is that his honor is. In neither case is Biden fit to hold the office of president of the United States of America, and Democrats would discredit themselves and endanger the nation to nominate him.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/joe-biden-unfit-for-presidency/

The Democrats are ready to go into November with nothing better to say for themselves than, “Our liar is better than their liar!” It is doubtful they will even be morally conflicted about that. But the nation will be worse off for it, inasmuch as democratic assumptions built on a foundation of lies must necessarily be unstable.

The United States has become an empire of lies. We are governed by liars chosen on the basis of lies, and the worst partisans have begun openly to admire the lies, so long as they are skillfully constructed and delivered. The lowest among us enjoy being lied to and celebrate it. Entire political careers are based on lies — and policy initiatives, too.

[Bera]

To my american friends here...


I follow Trump´s account on Facebook. And, judging by everything he´s posting, he´s going to win the next US Presidential election by a landslide.


Is this true? How is his popularity?

[August]

Is this true? How is his popularity?


Depends on who you ask I guess. The media has never had anything good to say about him but I heard that he has raised more cash than the top three Dem candidates combined and it's mostly from small donors. To me that's a more reliable indicator of his true popularity with the voters than polls conducted by the same liberal outfits that prognosticated Hillary up by around 20 points at the same time period during the last election.

[Mr Quatro]

It is not clear yet who the GOP will nominate to represent their party ...
This is a party thing you know ... More than likely it will be the present
POTUS Donald Trump.

Biden, Bernie or Warren couldn't even beat the GOP runner ups for the parties nomination. :hmmm:

It is a humiliating thing to watch the democrats are running on a promise to change the way our country operates with promises to the lower class of voters that we will take care of you when we get into office ... Trust us just vote for us. :o

It boils down to the democrats only real hope is a numbers game not a smart way to go.

[Dowly]

Depends on who you ask I guess. The media has never had anything good to say about him but I heard that he has raised more cash than the top three Dem candidates combined and it's mostly from small donors. To me that's a more reliable indicator of his true popularity with the voters than polls conducted by the same liberal outfits that prognosticated Hillary up by around 20 points at the same time period during the last election.Sanders' portion of small donors is 77% against Trump's 61% (according to Fox News). So... Sanders 2020 then? :hmmm::)

[Rockstar]

Sanders' portion of small donors is 77% against Trump's 61% (according to Fox News). So... Sanders 2020 then? :hmmm::)

It could be
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/05/small-donors-bolstering-2020/

http://i3.cpcache.com/product/1626146660/feel_the_bern_hair_sticker.jpg?color=White&height=460&width=460&qv=90

[August]

Sanders' portion of small donors is 77% against Trump's 61% (according to Fox News). So... Sanders 2020 then? :hmmm::)


Except that Trumps 61% is a far larger group than Sanders 77%. 2/3rds larger according to some calculations.

[Rockstar]

Except that Trumps 61% is a far larger group than Sanders 77%. 2/3rds larger according to some calculations.


I suppose its mathematically possible if we assume Republican small donors are a bunch of cheapskates. :D
A 'small donor" are individuals or groups donating $200.00 or less. Sanders (I) beats republican, democratic and independent candidates. Having received small donor totals of approx 15,282,029 dollars. Trump (R) is the top recipient among Republican candidates with small donor totals of approx 3,986,592 dollars




https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/05/small-donors-bolstering-2020/

Total dollars raised from small donors

The candidates who raised the most total dollars from small donors.


Bernie Sanders (PRES)
15,282,029



Beto O'Rourke (PRES)
5,542,641

Pete Buttigieg (PRES)
4,536,552

Kamala Harris (PRES)
4,420,828

Elizabeth Warren (PRES)
4,229,724




Donald Trump (PRES)
3,986,592

Jeff Merkley (OR Sen)
3,188,911

Amy Klobuchar (PRES)
1,810,614

Mark Kelly (AZ Sen)
1,548,462

Andrew Yang (PRES)
1,434,705

[August]

I suppose its mathematically possible if we assume Republican small donors are a bunch of cheapskates. :D


Well then somebody is misreporting something because if he indeed raised as much as the top three Dems, Sanders being one of them, as is being reported then his 62% has to be larger than Sanders 77%.

[Rockstar]

Honestly I dont know when that was collected, could be old news.

[August]

Could be different time frames too. All time versus year to date etc.

[Rockstar]

Now I see one reason why the Democrats may have fielded so many contenders. They need cash flow (donations) to pay off debts

------------------Total Raised----Total Spent----Cash on Hand---Debts

Democratic Party--$201,912,644--$165,718,397----$73,184,306-----$23,477,502

Republican Party--$234,012,843---$198,160,494----$94,754,011-----$3,594,702

DNCmte-----------$51,721,651----$51,276,162-----$9,117,114-----$5,619,077

RNCmte-----------$117,948,759---$94,857,449----$46,592,872-----$0

https://www.opensecrets.org/parties/




I sure as hell can think of a lot more to spend $550 million on than this made for TV drama.

[em2nought]

I suppose its mathematically possible if we assume Republican small donors are a bunch of cheapskates. :D



I'll need to find a credit card offer with at least nine months zero interest before I donate this time around. If only I had laid a bet on Trump winning in 2016 at the same time I donated. I should have known that any politician who could actually get "me" to donate was going to win. :up:


I don't think I even donated to Ross Perot. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-09-02/if-debt-machine-was-turned-us-would-immediately-plunge-horrifying-depression-new

[em2nought]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-09-02/if-debt-machine-was-turned-us-would-immediately-plunge-horrifying-depression-new
The very definition of the word "obvious". :03: We are peasants with a king's tastes. :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

Feel the Bern.


Though I am for the most against abortion. I am on the other hand glad to see someone actually come right out and breach the subject about population control and pollution. Though there are I think alternatives to abortion that reduces population like a global economy, living wages, jobs and access to decent health care.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/04/bernie-yes-im-courageous-enough-to-talk-about-population-control/

[Skybird]

Ha, first time ever I hear Sanders saying something reasonable - and Rockstar beats me to it. Maybe you were as surprised as I was...?! :D

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49601678


As I use to say since years: We. Are. Too. Many.


Right now around 6 to 7 billions too many, I estimate. And its not just about climate, it goes far beyond that. Natural sustainability on all levels, in all regards.

[Platapus]

To my american friends here...


I follow Trump´s account on Facebook. And, judging by everything he´s posting, he´s going to win the next US Presidential election by a landslide.


Is this true? How is his popularity?


No one can predict how the voters will vote.



Just being the incumbent gives a president a good percentage of votes.



It will ultimately come down to who the Democrats select as their candidate. Last election, they chose unwisely.



Secondly, the democratic candidate has to motivate the democrats to get out and vote.

[Mr Quatro]

Ha, first time ever I hear Sanders saying something reasonable - and Rockstar beats me to it. Maybe you were as surprised as I was...?! :D

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49601678


As I use to say since years: We. Are. Too. Many.


Right now around 6 to 7 billions too many, I estimate. And its not just about climate, it goes far beyond that. Natural sustainability on all levels, in all regards.

Perhaps Bernie is suggesting that we limit the population with selective breeding of just blond, blue eyed, white people :o

Where have we heard that before?

[Rockstar]

Mr. Quatro it was a concern beginning in the early 70's. You can read the declassified National Security Study Memorandum or NSSM-200 to get an idea where government is thinking we need to go in the future. I just never dreamed a politician would actually come right out and say those two words "population control'. :haha:

[Mr Quatro]

Mr. Quatro it was a concern beginning in the early 70's. You can read the declassified National Security Study Memorandum or NSSM-200 to get an idea where government is thinking we need to go in the future. I just never dreamed a politician would actually come right out and say those two words "population control'. :haha:


Thank you I was not aware of this ... I remember the TV politicians in the 70's came right out and approved of abortion to save the state money from welfare moms for life. True story, but only my ears heard it.

What society needs is a new population control of men and women that need to go to re-education centers on how to raise their children. This I would approve of :yep:

[Buddahaid]

This is going to be about Soylent Green isn't it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zAFA-hamZ0

[em2nought]

This is going to be about Soylent Green isn't it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zAFA-hamZ0


Fresh water might be more precious so maybe they'll squeeze our sixty year old non social security collecting dead bodies for our water as in Frank Herbert's "Dune" instead. :D

[Skybird]

Perhaps Bernie is suggesting that we limit the population with selective breeding of just blond, blue eyed, white people :o

Where have we heard that before?
From what I have collected in inputs and readings over the years, from various people and academical branches, I assume this planet's ressources and natural rebuilding potentials can sustain a human population of 1 to 1.5, but under no circustamce more than 2 billion people, if we take suststainability, social justice for all and same consummation standards for everybody and on a modest level serious. 1.5 bn is the number that I red most in various books. That is slightly more than the globla population at the beginning of the 20th century.



We are approaching 8 billion. Projections show most liekly we will exceed 11 billion over the going of this century.



Witty jokes like yours do not change anything in this.

1. We are too many, globall.
2. We have too low birth raTe s in countries that could help to support the planet and global economy and society, and we have too hugh birth rates in countries that do not add to the global wellbeing.

3. Finally, the consummation habits in the developed world are too intense beside the lower population, and the available consummation to people in the third world is too low.



These three issues all have to be tackled. Else this world will end as a hellhouse. We stupidly repeat the same mistakes that civilization before us got wirped out by. In times of wealth, we poush growth and expand beyond the limits of sustainability, we build no reserves instead and we seek no stability (of a dynamic, slightly fluctuating kind). When times less welathy, when emergencies finally reahc us, we are not poreoared and everythig collapses. Or we allwoed to expand beyiond the limits of what cna be supported, and we collapse for that reason.



We are immune to learning. Not even in our stupidity we are crativity, although there should be some many things, so many diverse ways in whcih we could express stupdity. But no, we stobbornly do the same stupid old thing again and again and again.


This indicates a fundamental defect on the geneticla level, a basic flawed design, may it be by somethign broken, may it be by some unqelcome dimplication. It prevents our survival and probaly will lead us to extenction.


Thats why I think humans are a dead end of evolution. Of course, nobody wants to hear that.We are the crown of creation, aren't we? Made to subjugate the rest of nature, right? Its all laid out before us just for us, isn't it?



A crown that by its weight crashes the skull wearing it.


Before debating environmental protection, sustainability of economic management schemes, ressource preservation and so on, form a consensus that globla population must be brought down by 80% - minimum. Until then, all other debates are just noise and hot air.


If we do not find solutions to get there by our own choosing and under controlled circumstances, then nature will push us there, not matter our choosing, and under totally uncontrolled circumstances. Time is running out. Nature is not sentimental. The cosmos does not care one bit for mankind.

[Mr Quatro]

If you don't like witty jokes then you can't see the truth behind them pointing out the evil thoughts of men in last generations and now it is being suggested by educated members of our present society that we need to limit the population with perhaps they did not say so, but selective breeding will be one of their options along with birth control and of course late term abortions.

If you don't like witty jokes then ignore the fact that the world we live in processes over fifty (50) thousand nuclear weapons and at any given moment are ready to be launched at the offending party or parties.

That will limit the populations of the world and usher in selective breeding :yep:

[Skybird]

You replied with an extremist reference to debunk a statement on an obvious truth. I called that a "witty joke", but that was just an euphemism for the sake of politeness.

There is no way around it: we are too many. Like a rafting boat for rescue that could hold 30 passengers, but is loaded with 100+ already, and water already sipping in over the upper rims. In that case I would say the same: there are too many.

There are ~ 5-6 times as many humans on this planet than the planet can sustain over the long term. Period. Like it or not, imply I am an evil Nazi or not, pray to divine idols for even greater fertility or not, call having many children a blessing or not - it does not matter. Too many is too many. That is the only fact there is, and that is the only thing that decides the issue. Consumerism, waste, ressource management, all that in the end comes down to simple rules of basic mathematics, and physically limited habitats can sustain so and so many life forms only, and not more. Period. Too many is too many. Too much is too much.

And please, just in case: no word on space colonization and other scifi esoteric. I would only laugh.

[u crank]

Nature is not sentimental. The cosmos does not care one bit for mankind.

Absolutly right. But then again, most of mankind does not care about the cosmos. Nature has a way of taking care of things. It may be an unlucky hit by an asteroid or it may be a natural culling of the herd. Happens all the time.

What is remarkable to me is the outright arrogance that the present generation has about certain things. What is the ideal temperature and climate for the earth? And for who? What is the ideal population of the earth and for who? And who in end will get to decide?

And of course the answer is nobody. There is no power or consensus on earth at present to control the climate or the population. The cosmos will have the final say.

[Rockstar]

Thank you I was not aware of this ... I remember the TV politicians in the 70's came right out and approved of abortion to save the state money from welfare moms for life. True story, but only my ears heard it.

What society needs is a new population control of men and women that need to go to re-education centers on how to raise their children. This I would approve of :yep:




I think its reasonable to believe there have been other studies since the Kissinger Report which are still classified. But after reading this one I can see some things mentioned in the report being attempted today. I suppose one day in the far distant future if the population swings too far in the other direction and is in need of increase. Abortion and homosexuality will once again be frowned upon or even illegal.

[em2nought]

I suppose one day in the far distant future if the population swings too far in the other direction and is in need of increase abortion and homosexuality will once again be frowned upon or even illegal.


It's so odd how the sides align on the abortion issue. The side dead set against it probably wouldn't even be able to get 33% of the vote if there was no abortion. There would be so many more "products" of a liberal education system walking around out there and voting for Bernie Sanders and AOC. :har:


The side that's pro abortion wouldn't even need to worry about making "open" borders in order to add to their voter rolls if there was no abortion. :har:

[Platapus]

Trump made a decision I can get behind. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day


He dumped Bolton. This isgood news for our country. War mongers like Bolton are pretty free with advising the use of the military and putting other lives at risk, but when he was eligible for duty in Vietnam, like a lot of cowards, he had his father pull some strings and get him in the MD Guard. I can't stomach that hypocrisy.



Beware of old men eager to send young men/women off to battle.



Good riddance and I hope this will be the last we hear of Bolton.

[Mr Quatro]

Trump made a decision I can get behind. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day

He dumped Bolton. This is good news for our country. War

Beware of old men eager to send young men/women off to battle.

Good riddance and I hope this will be the last we hear of Bolton.

Me too, finally Trump got rid of a problem before it got worse :yep:

[Buddahaid]

Nobody lasts long in this administration.

[Dowly]

Just in: Trump announces the new National Security Advisor!

https://i.imgur.com/6nVcCMm.png

[Buddahaid]

He must be from Alabama...

[em2nought]

Trump made a decision I can get behind.


He dumped Bolton. This is good news for our country.

Good riddance and I hope this will be the last we hear of Bolton.


Agreed! :up:

[JU_88]

Its going to be Trump 2020, can see that coming a mile off, and not because he's good, just because the Dems are peddling Middle-class cosmopolitan 'Wokeness'. In the real world people care about jobs and crime alot more than college student social justice.
Trump talks about the former, the Dems talk about the latter.
There are some decent Dems - but they will be cast aside because we live in clown world now.

[Mr Quatro]

Don't forget face book pushing the socialist party hot button on the democrats and Christians being warned that this will mean the end of their so called freedom.

Plus the democrats now are suggesting that if they are in charge of the WH/GOV they will flood the SC with 24 appointees :yep:

[Buddahaid]

Of which 26 will be rejected.

[mapuc]

Why this hate towards the President of USA ?

Some days ago a Danish sports commentator(he use to comment Tour De France) said in a Danish Radioshow

"I just think he should die" when they discussed Mr. Trump

I did not hear this show, I first read about it yesterday and today.

Makes me sad, when a person hates a politicians so much that he or she wish this politician dead.


Markus

[Buddahaid]

I can't tell why but there appears to a lot of hate for anything, and anybody, someone don't like these days. Perhaps it's a learned bad behavior from social media etc. of the internet age, maybe people just suck.

For my two cents, I don't hate him, but I don't like him and never have liked him. He's made a living out of being an a-hole and now he's an a-hole in office.

[Rockstar]

Why this hate towards the President of USA ?

Some days ago a Danish sports commentator(he use to comment Tour De France) said in a Danish Radioshow

"I just think he should die" when they discussed Mr. Trump

I did not hear this show, I first read about it yesterday and today.

Makes me sad, when a person hates a politicians so much that he or she wish this politician dead.


Markus


I guess lack of wisdom in ones conduct, leading uneventful boring lives, herd mentality, its easy to be angry when your own life is miserable too I guess, who knows I'm sure there's more. Oh ya there's also people who suffer from the Dark Tetrad.
A perfect storm engenders online rudeness, including virtual anonymity and thus a lack of accountability, physical distance and the medium of writing.

Psychologists say this addictive form of vitriolic back and forth should be avoided — or simply censored by online media outlets — because it actually damages society and mental health.https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-everyone-on-the-internet-so-angry/

[mapuc]

Thank you for your replies.

Been thinking after I posted my last comment

Next time I read an article and people write comment to this article in a negative way

I will ask this or those person(s)

In which negative way have this politician(s)/President Trump affected you, that you wish this politician/President Trump would die ?

Markus

[Rockstar]

Some peoples plans take time requiring a great deal of patience before seeing those plans come to fruition.

I'm troubled to see how quickly the public can be stirred up into a feeding frenzy right straight down the political divide. Its somewhat disconcerting that the public even families have become so divided. I think that one day in the distant future if something very bad happens, rather than unite once again under the Constitution there will be a violent and divisive struggle for power that will tear this country apart.

[Skybird]

In a long forgotten thread, when the Fed some years ago started to raise interest rates above zero again, I predicted that it will no last and that it is only a question of time until they start lowering them again. And there we are, second drop in a row. Why? Here is why.


https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/peter-schiff-why-fed-wont-be-able-rescue-economy-time-around


Same desaster in Europe. We are riding on the tip of a big financial ICBM with multi-currency-MIRVs. And I fear we are aleady beyond reentry point of the flight path.


That it all is about no real money, but counterfeit money without material securities bolstering it, is not really of any solace.

[mapuc]

It's breaking news here in Denmark.

It looks like Mr. Trump have done something he shouldn't have done and I understand the Dem are starting some investigation which could lead to an impeachment against Trump.

Even here in Denmark and Sweden it is illegal to do, what Trump are accused to have done.

Since Trump entered the oval office it looked like it was the Dem only goal to get Trump impeached...and now it seems like they may got what they want.

Markus

[JU_88]

It's breaking news here in Denmark.

It looks like Mr. Trump have done something he shouldn't have done and I understand the Dem are starting some investigation which could lead to an impeachment against Trump.

Even here in Denmark and Sweden it is illegal to do, what Trump are accused to have done.

Since Trump entered the oval office it looked like it was the Dem only goal to get Trump impeached...and now it seems like they may got what they want.

Markus

Trump impeachment has been 'breaking news' ever since he was elected.
Until it happens (and if), don't believe a word of it.

[August]

Trump impeachment has been 'breaking news' ever since he was elected.
Until it happens (and if), don't believe a word of it.




Sound advice. I'll bet this ends up doing far more damage to the Biden and the Dems than it does to Trump.

[Dowly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NylhfQJtZ1w

[JU_88]

"It does not mean automatic removal from office and is only the first step of the proceedings."


So yeah, we'll see what happens, but i doubt we will have a conclusion this year.
And remember Bill Clinton.

[Mr Quatro]

The so called "whistle blower" didn't even personally witness the conversation, but just heard about it through a third party.

Why don't they investigate VP Biden getting the investigator fired for looking into his son's business in the Ukraine?

[Skybird]

Because distracting to another wrong does not cure the original wrong. Thats the main game being played these days.

Also, the suspect is a socalled president. Ranks more important.

If true, what Trump there did is mobster methods. Not that anyone should be surprised.


The lefter-than left wing in the Democratic party and the righter than right wing in the Republican party are pleased: the polarization between the camps will deepen even further.

[MaDef]

Are you kids really this naive?

There is not a country out there that gives money/aid to other countries without strings attached.

[u crank]

Are you kids really this naive?

There is not a country out there that gives money/aid to other countries without strings attached.

There you go. :up:

And especially to countries as corrupt as Ukraine.

[Bilge_Rat]

transcript is out, you can read it here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

only 5 pages long and nothing really to see.

[em2nought]

How inconvenient to have banned plastic straws when they are the only thing you can grasp at. :D

[Bilge_Rat]

not sure where the Dems are going with this.

I read the transcript and see a President asking a foreign leader to investigate a case of potential corruption by a U.S. politician. Maybe shady or unethical, but not illegal and nothing we did not really know or suspect about Trump. This will have no impact on his base or the GOP.

OTOH keeping this story alive just keeps reminding voters that Biden may have been involved in unethical, maybe corrupt behavior. I was not even aware of the Hunter Biden - Ukraine -China conection and I follow U.S. politics pretty closely. You would have to be pretty naive to think the Chinese and Ukrainian would have been paying Hunter Biden millions of dollars if he was not the Vice-President's son.

[Bilge_Rat]

A longer read, but this is the legal opinion from the DOJ which concluded that the "whistleblower" complaint did not have to be given to Congress.

https://www.justice.gov/olc/file/1204586/download

notice the Following interesting tidbits:

On August 12, 2019, the Office of the ICIG received a complaint purporting to invoke this provision. The complainant alleged that he or she had heard reports from “White House officials” that, in the course of a routine diplomatic communication between the President and a foreign leader, the President had made statements that the complainant viewed as seeking to pressure that leader to take an official action to help the President’s 2020 re-election campaign. The complainant described this communication as arising during a scheduled call with the foreign leader that, consistent with usual practice, was monitored by a number of U.S. officials. Having heard about the President’s reported statements, the complainant expressed an intent to report this information to the intelligence committees.

and this:

Although the ICIG’s preliminary review found “some indicia of an arguable political bias on the part of the Complainant in favor of a rival political candidate,” the ICIG concluded that the complaint’s allegations nonetheless appeared credible.

[Skybird]

The behavior shown in the telephone protocol by both politicians, Trampel and Selenski, is disgusting. The flattery of the Ukrainian and the exaggerated self-praise of the American are simply embarrassing. Two losers in office.:down: Pfui-bah.

The question also is whether the protocol is complete.

[Rockstar]

Word gets out about shady ties with Ukraine during campaign season. Whats needed now is a good distraction like impeachment procedings!

[Mr Quatro]

Word gets out about shady ties with Ukraine during campaign season. Whats needed now is a good distraction like impeachment procedings!

Which has been bubblingly on the back burner ever since Trump took office ...

The democrats were just waiting for substance to push it in front of the American people that they represent knowing full well that they can't win a general election unless they can get rid of Trump first.

This will backfire and I predict that Obama/Biden did something together so shady that it will come out right before the election sinking Joe Biden to become the POTUS.:yep:

[mapuc]

In the primetime news I heard our journalist in USA saying:

The Dem shall be careful, the voters could become sick and tired, in this ongoing effort to impeach Trump instead of beating him on the political scene
(as good as I could remember it)

Markus

[JU_88]

Which has been bubblingly on the back burner ever since Trump took office ...

The democrats were just waiting for substance to push it in front of the American people that they represent knowing full well that they can't win a general election unless they can get rid of Trump first.

This will backfire and I predict that Obama/Biden did something together so shady that it will come out right before the election sinking Joe Biden to become the POTUS.:yep:

True, the Dems are so dysfunctional I doubt they can beat Trump in 2020, when they insist on repeating all the mistakes they made in 2016.
He'll shred their open borders / tax the rich / white people are yucky platform.
But If he is removed I reckon Warren or Biden could knock out Pence as he has all the Charisma of a farting wax work accountant.

Biggest threat to Reps = successful Trump impeachment or sudden economic downturn.
Biggest thread to Dems = mostly themselves.

[August]

Say what you want about Trump but facts are facts.



Peter Schweizer: Biden Ukraine dealings – 7 essential facts

1. Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of Ukrainian energy company Burisma in April 2014, according to RSB bank records. Hunter Biden had little background in energy. Over a 16-month period, Burisma paid $3.1 million to a bank account associated with Hunter’s business.
2. Joe Biden led the Obama administration’s policy toward Ukraine when he served as vice president. Biden helped shape Ukraine’s energy and anti-corruption policies, issues that directly impact Burisma.
3. Burisma sought to capitalize Hunter Biden’s name and relationships. According to The New York Times, Hunter Biden helped assemble the company’s legal team, which consisted of American attorneys and consulting firms, including a former Obama Justice Department official.
4. Burisma is led by an oligarch named Mykola Zlochevsky. Zlochevsky served as ecology minister under pro-Russia former Ukrainian leader Viktor Yanukovich, leading to allegations that he used his office to benefit Burisma.
5. Burisma was under legal scrutiny. Shortly before Hunter Biden was appointed to Burisma’s board, British authorities froze $23 million of Zlochevsky’s assets as part of a corruption investigation. Ukraine opened its own probe later that year.
6. Financial records from Morgan Stanley show numerous lines of money going into the account of “Robert H. Biden.” The funds originated from oligarchs and anonymous LLCs in Ukraine, China, Kazakhstan and elsewhere.
7. In 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Ten days later, Hunter Biden’s firm scored a $1.5 billion deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China.


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/peter-schweizer-biden-familys-foreign-dealings-7-essential-facts

[Dowly]

Oh oh oh, let me let me!

Fact: The Obama administration, like many other nations, sought to get rid of Shokin (the Ukrainian prosecutor) because he was too soft on corruption.

Fact: Ukrainians themselves consider this case investigated.

Fact: Trump asked a foreign government to investigate one of his prime rival's son, which would be extremely useful in the coming presidential election against said rival. Basically, it's 'Russia, if you're listening...' all over again.

[ikalugin]

This whole story amuses me, I was told a while ago by a knowledgeable person to expect the Ukrainian interference with 2016 elections to pop up this season.

[Skybird]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-threat-democrats/index.html


"Speaking in a code?" I think he spoke pretty straight and presented his demand quite obviously.



But in hierarchies like these, of course every superior knows how to encode his wishes and demands in a way that the subordinates know what is expected of them without the superior needing to explicitly saying it in literal words. Where there are hierarchies, there is this form of communication. It aims at pushing forward with things that to explicitly demand would be considered illegal or inappropriate or otherwise negatively. It also aims at leaving open the escape way: "see, this I have not said, show me where I have said it in words!"


One can say somethign asd clearly without excplcitly explaining it in words.


Anyhow. The Dems need 67 senators in senate, but the Reps have the majority. Question is how many Reps still are willing to stick their heads into the sand for opportunistic party loyalty and craving for staying in power. So far it looks as if the Democrat's "offensive" is set to stall in the senate at the latest.

[Onkel Neal]

Oh oh oh, let me let me!

Fact: The Obama administration, like many other nations, sought to get rid of Shokin (the Ukrainian prosecutor) because he was too soft on corruption.

Fact: Ukrainians themselves consider this case investigated.

Fact: Trump asked a foreign government to investigate one of his prime rival's son, which would be extremely useful in the coming presidential election against said rival. Basically, it's 'Russia, if you're listening...' all over again.

I won't dispute any of that, but August is right, the corruption with the Bidens is blatant, so let's add that to the tally. I don't mind if you blast Trump, but just cover the Obama/Biden issue equally.

Pence in 2020!

[Dowly]

I won't dispute any of that, but August is right, the corruption with the Bidens is blatant, so let's add that to the tally. I don't mind if you blast Trump, but just cover the Obama/Biden issue equally.If Biden is corrupt, then investigate him. I, however, must note as I've done before that if there are so many wrongdoers on the left, why hasn't the GOP investigated them? They've had the time to do so.

And this recent issue is about Joe Biden's son, not him. It is also about the fact that we now have the President of the United States asking for potential dirt on his rival from the head of a foreign government. That to me doesn't sound OK.

Also, I remind that this call is 1 out of 8 (IIRC).

[Skybird]

Report on the whistleblower is out. Reads not good for Trump, and obviously they tried to prevent the publishing. As I see it, here is a president who asked another foreign nation to ac tively interfere with the general elections of the US.

We can talk about Biden and Biden's son back and forth, but we do it later. This issue here is what is the atual and fa rmore deciociove one. It reminds of the deal between Reagan's Republicans and their deal with Iran to delay the freeing of the hostages until Carter was beaten. For such acts I use this old-fashioned word, "High Treason". And if what I quickly read form that report in first media comments turns out to be true, what Trump did also is High Treason and an assault on the constitutional order and the vital interest of the United States.


Is there a window of opportunity opening? Time will tell. The Democracts still are weak by themselves, still have unacceptable perosnnel in the first line, even if they might have found a big hammer here. No use in a heavy tool if you lack the muscles to swing it.

[mapuc]

Isn't it a job for the FBI or some other authorities if a politicians or their relatives commit federal crime in another country ?

Does the federal law in USA permit a President having a second job e.g private detective ?

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Just the democrats controlling the House of Representatives is not enough to impeach the POTUS ... Big stink till sometime next year when they lose in the Senate.

Am I wrong?

[mapuc]

I know the Rep are in majority in the Senate and what I understand is Senate have to give the go-ahead if the President shall be impeached

A thought

From reading some of your post, specially Skybirds and seeing the news

I wonder how much his party(the Rep) will support him, if it's true all this.

Markus

[u crank]

Isn't it a job for the FBI or some other authorities if a politicians or their relatives commit federal crime in another country ?

Does the federal law in USA permit a President having a second job e.g private detective ?

Markus

The FBI is regulated by the Executive branch of the US government. The President is the head of the Executive branch.

Trump is the constitutional master of the prosecutorial function within the executive branch, and he is well within his authority to insist upon an investigation, even if it involves a political opponent.

[Skybird]

The question also is whether the protocol is complete.

Its now known that it was not.

Bad. Worse. More worse. I do not kn ow wiocxh situation currently is more embarassing for the hosting nation: the circus in the UK where they try to weasel away fromBrexit, or the circus in the US where they try to make it look as if Trump is fine.

Two great shows, but it starts to get boring after all this time. Lets have a successful Brexit AND a successful impeachment. The audience deserves it after it was abused this long.

[Mr Quatro]

A successful impeachment would lead to an even worse case scenario ... :yep: