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Skybird
08-02-17, 05:29 PM
Right now, my fear is that Trump will try to divert attention from his administration by starting something with North Korea.
Unfortunately it is an old but very effective trick.What really is unfortunate is that anything done or not done on NK may prove to be the worst option one could have chosen. War strike, appeasement, assassination attempt, doing nothing - there are no good options left, ever yone of them is as dangerous as any of the others. All options still possible are extremely risky and dangerous.
I think best thing one can do is to roll a die. That way chances are fair at least, and fate cannot be complained about.
This is what happens if one lets small problems mature into big ones, and allows big ones to grow into critical ones. Already LaoTse warned against that. ;) Problems must be solved while they are still small and innocent.
We see what they are doing, and we do nothign and let it happen. We see they are swinging a nuclear weapon at our head, and we do nothing. We hear them threatening and cursing us, and we do not take it serious. We must have lost our brains. Or our cochones.
Simple truth is we betray ourselves with our military tehcnology. We may have the means to fight and win wars, but we are too shy and too softy now to use them even when we would not use them to impose our will on others, but to deny the other imposing his will on us. We put ourselves at shame.
Read this. LINK (http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/pussycats/)
That is so true that it hurts. We may have technology advanatge. But that means nothing. We lack the will to do what is necessary to win. In the past decades, relatively primitive warbands of often badly organised, technically inferior farmer's armies formed by untrained, simple men, defeated technically and training-wise hopelessly superior armies from the west, and kicked them back. Their onyl advantage was the ability and willingness to suffer whatever was needed to defeat their enemy. And thats what they did. They suffered, and the held out, and won. On the one or two occaisons were the West scored a military win, he allowed politics to turn it into an even worse, strategic defeat afterwards.
We may think of ourselves as being so highly civilised that we endlessly shy away from fighting war the way it must be fought if you want to win it. We are so sensible, so concerned, so educated, so great. Its only a question of time until some barbarian tribe comes along, does not speak, but simply cuts off our heads, throws them on the trash mountain of history and takes what was ours. Without comment.
We better quickly learn again that those refusing to hold a sword still can be killed by one. I have no hope whatever, however, that we will learn that.
LMAO, looks like you kids need to go change your shorts. Really? secret pacts to circumvent the president? what are you guys smoking over on that side of the ocean?
Buddahaid
08-02-17, 08:14 PM
Something better than what you are.....:arrgh!:
Sailor Steve
08-02-17, 10:48 PM
Please stick to the topic and provide real counters to things you don't like. Mocking interjections don't help at all.
Right now, my fear is that Trump will try to divert attention from his administration by starting something with North Korea.
Unfortunately it is an old but very effective trick.
I have similar qualms. I ran into an acquaintance, who voted for Trump, a couple of days ago, and he reminded me of a casual bet we made a while back, just after the inauguration; he had been upset when Trump chose not to go after a criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton immediately after taking office as he had promised during the campaign. I commented Trump was probably holding that 'card' in reserve in the event the whole Russian mess blew up and he found himself up against it over the issue; I also speculated if Trump found his position even more dire, he would most likely fall back on what you aptly called "an old but very effective trick". My acquaintance thought I was wrong and insisted on a bet over the issue. When I saw him last, just after Trump started his "What about Hillary?" tweet-storm and berating of Sessions, he said to me "You called it." He wanted to pay off on the bet, but I really didn't want to capitalize on something that was so obvious, so I said I'd modify the bet to a double or nothing if Trump started some sort of military action if he really got pinned down so as to deflect and distract from his troubles...
I really hope I won't be placed in a position to collect on that bet...
<O>
LMAO, looks like you kids need to go change your shorts. Really? secret pacts to circumvent the president? what are you guys smoking over on that side of the ocean?
Actually, the pact concerning Nixon has been verified for a long time; as Nixon's Watergate woes got worse and worse, he began to drink heavily and many around him became concerned about his ability to function and govern responsibly; in books written by those who worked in the Nixon White House and were part of his administration, numerous references and depictions have been made regarding Nixon's state. One book even recounted how Nixon had become quite drunk on one occasion and had to cancel out of an appearance, leaving his staff to try to decide how best to excuse his absence; IIRC, one of the persons at the event sarcastically noted they could just be honest and say, 'Hey, the President is loaded'. It was around that time Kissinger and other senior civil and military leaders decided to mutually "double-check" and confirm any orders from Nixon...
Given Trump has amply and openly exhibited conduct and demeanor falling well within the realm of serious instability and a tendency to ill-considered or ill-conceived behavior and decision-making, the idea more adult and cooler heads would find the need to formulate ways to blunt any rash actions or decisions by Trump; doing nothing would be, in itself, irresponsible...
BTW, a couple of posters in previous entries have stated that a specific crime must be proven in order to impeach a President; actually, given the source of the term "high crimes and misdemeanors", the scope of what is impeachable is broad and does not necessarily require a specific criminal aspect:
http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/52-impeachable-offenses.html
<O>
Please stick to the topic and provide real counters to things you don't like. Mocking interjections don't help at all.Has nothing to do with whether I agree with the post or not and everything to do with it being speculation someone pulled out of thin air with no corroborating evidence, (even in the form of hearsay). That post was right up there with the Obama birth certificate theory, and deserves nothing more than a mocking response.
Mr Quatro
08-03-17, 09:03 AM
Right now, my fear is that Trump will try to divert attention from his administration by starting something with North Korea.
Unfortunately it is an old but very effective trick.
I thought that too till General Kelly came on board ... He would surely disapprove of any thing like that. He knows the real dangers of starting a war. I bet NK has sleeper cells right here in Los Angeles and they could cause more trouble than one missile, in fact NK needs a hundred missiles to scare the world surely they fear retaliation.
I say cut off all trade with China till the problem is solved ... who's your daddy now China? :arrgh!:
Skybird
08-03-17, 09:17 AM
I bet NK has sleeper cells right here in Los Angeles and they could cause more trouble than one missile, in fact NK needs a hundred missiles to scare the world surely they fear retaliation.
What city's destruction is the bigger loss to the world'S economy and wealth: Pyongyang - or Los Angeles, New York or Dallas?
You cannot retaliate if your enemy has nothing worth to retaliate against. Kim has nothing to loose there. Thats his advantage. And he knows that. Thats why he is poushing for nuclear weapons. The US then could not afford anymore to use nukes. NK then could afford it very well.
Jimbuna
08-03-17, 09:24 AM
Kim should fear his personal health and wellbeing from within his own ranks if and when he appears weak to his peer group.
What goes round comes round.
Jimbuna
08-03-17, 09:38 AM
Has nothing to do with whether I agree with the post or not and everything to do with it being speculation someone pulled out of thin air with no corroborating evidence, (even in the form of hearsay). That post was right up there with the Obama birth certificate theory, and deserves nothing more than a mocking response.
On the contrary, mocking responses aren't appreciated on this forum and ideally should be refrained from.
Steve was polite in his asking so I think it best if the matter is now concluded.
Platapus
08-03-17, 02:10 PM
Kim should fear his personal health and wellbeing from within his own ranks if and when he appears weak to his peer group.
What goes round comes round.
I think Mr. Kim is very much worried about that very same thing. Hence the myth of a dictatorship. Kim has to keep the high members of his military happy....or else.
Trump have a great/big/important annoncement to make in his speech at some meeting later today.
I will not speculate in what he may have to tell the American and or the World.
Markus
Although it is titled as a political article it is actually a very interesting and informative treatise on the ramifications of Administrative (or Deep) State.
Trump and the Fate of the Administrative State
By M. Anthony Mills (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/authors/m_anthony_mills/)
August 03, 2017
Most of us take for granted that much of the government’s business is carried out by bureaucrats and that many of the laws that impinge upon our economic and our social lives are created and enforced not by Congress and the courts but by administrative agencies. For nearly a century, our domestic policy disagreements — over federal spending, health care, and the social safety net — have taken place against the backdrop of a government whose functions are increasingly bureaucratic, rather than political. Even the debate over government’s size, which has characterized our politics for so long, takes for granted the existence, if not the necessity, of the administrative state.
Of course, a certain amount of delegation has always been necessary for the executive to carry out the laws passed by Congress. But this modern style of governance — in which a centralized, rational bureaucracy, staffed by unelected and purportedly apolitical officials, is empowered by Congress to formulate rules and regulations — is a creature of more recent times. Scholars locate its emergence at different points in history: the creation of the civil service in the late 19th century; the rise of progressivism in early 20th-century America; the New Deal; the Great Society.
According to John Marini, however, we have to go all the way back to 19th-century Prussia to understand the origins of the administrative state. Marini, a senior fellow of the Claremont Institute and professor of political science at the University of Nevada-Reno, is the guest on the sixth and final episode of our podcast “The Future of the Administrative State (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/podcast.html).” He argues that while the terms “bureaucracy” and “administrative state” would emerge much later, the philosophical seeds of bureaucratic governance were sown in the writings of 19th-century German thinkers, such as G.W.F. Hegel, who articulated a political vision that would become essential to American politics nearly a century later.
According to these thinkers, politics is not grounded in human nature (as the ancients supposed) or natural rights (as America’s founders maintained) but in society itself, which progresses and changes over time. Moreover, such progress is understood to be rational, as resulting in the “cultivation of knowledge.” This picture of government is not of a “social compact,” like a constitution, intended to protect natural rights, but an organic and rational whole — the State — which becomes the “vehicle for the administration of progress.” Hence “more and more of the tasks of human society have to be handed over to those who have knowledge.” The end result: the push and pull of ordinary representative politics is superseded by centralized “rational rule” by a cognitive elite — what would later be termed the administrative state.
http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/08/03/trump_and_the_fate_of_the_administrative_state_110 319.html
Rockstar
08-03-17, 09:58 PM
In other news Half of Detroit mayoral candidates are felons. :yeah:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/08/02/half-detroit-mayoral-candidates-felony-convictions/104244406/
em2nought
08-03-17, 10:09 PM
Although it is titled as a political article it is actually a very interesting and informative treatise on the ramifications of Administrative (or Deep) State.
http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/08/03/trump_and_the_fate_of_the_administrative_state_110 319.html
Not so good if those so called "elite" all turn out to be idiots with no common sense whatsoever who are in it mostly to perpetuate their tenure. :03:
Well, Mueller has impaneled a Grand jury now, so will be interesting to see where this goes.
Jimbuna
08-04-17, 05:43 AM
Well, Mueller has impaneled a Grand jury now, so will be interesting to see where this goes.
The special counsel investigating claims of Russian meddling in the US election has begun using a grand jury in Washington, reports say.
The move suggests Robert Mueller may be taking a more aggressive approach to gathering data on possible collusion with Donald Trump's campaign team.
Grand juries are used to issue subpoenas to compel people to testify.
The president has again poured scorn on the inquiry, telling a rally in West Virginia it was a "total fabrication".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40820863
If I'm correct in my belief that Trump has the power to dismiss Mueller then I'm wondering if he would dare.
He can't fire him directly, but could put pressure on Justice Dept to do it. But, if he has nothing to hide, why would he. But with Trump, you never know. Congress would be up in arms if he did, and if Trump thinks he has a hard time with Congress now, fire Mueller and see how bad it could really get,lol
Mr Quatro
08-04-17, 06:13 PM
Seems like a checker player (Trump) playing a chess player (Muller and the FBI) to me.
Why so many plans of the WH to do this or do that if he is innocent. Some where along the line Trump has made a serious mistake. The day that we know what that mistake was has not arrived.
Surely a big break down is coming soon ... we will hear about it on twitter for sure.
Mean while President Trump is taking a much needed 17 day vacation in Jersey at one of his golf retreats.
Buddahaid
08-04-17, 06:23 PM
Gee and I wonder how much money his retreat makes with all the people that need to be put up there etc. I don't see any ethics problem with it.... What a putz.
Platapus
08-04-17, 07:54 PM
Mean while President Trump is taking a much needed 17 day vacation in Jersey at one of his golf retreats.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGWl9XdWsAAnq3G.jpg
Gee and I wonder how much money his retreat makes with all the people that need to be put up there etc. I don't see any ethics problem with it.... What a putz.
Hey, its just our tax dollars going into his coffers; no biggie and saying it is makes it a partisan witch hunt and fake news... :03:
<O>
Platapus
08-05-17, 09:42 AM
The easiest job in the US is being President....unless you actually happen to be President that is. :03:
Mr Quatro
08-05-17, 12:58 PM
Kim should fear his personal health and wellbeing from within his own ranks if and when he appears weak to his peer group.
What goes round comes round.
Kim is now 33 in his sixth (6th) year of reign, but your right he should worry about his health. A war would murder millions on both sides, but a little poison could go a long way. :yep:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/01/11/0F50F63400000578-0-image-a-1_1467368202167.jpg
Take your pick sir ... they all have been poisoned just for your sir.
Surely a big break down is coming soon ... we will hear about it on twitter for sure.
We've been waiting for this break for what a year now? We still don't even know what law Trump has supposedly broken.
It took Ken Starr almost exactly four years to issue his report on Clinton in 1998, so a year is not a very long time at all; if its any consolation, the extent and ability to gather organize and process data (emails, phone recordings, documents, etc.) is far more advanced now than twenty years ago, so the findings shouldn't take as long as in the Clinton case...
...so, we'll be rid of the farce and detriment that is Trump fairly soon, so don't fret...
<O>
Platapus
08-06-17, 04:11 PM
It took Ken Starr almost exactly four years to issue his report on Clinton in 1998, so a year is not a very long time at all; if its any consolation, the extent and ability to gather organize and process data (emails, phone recordings, documents, etc.) is far more advanced now than twenty years ago, so the findings shouldn't take as long as in the Clinton case...
...so, we'll be rid of the farce and detriment that is Trump fairly soon, so don't fret...
<O>
Took 2 years with Nixon
Rockstar
08-06-17, 04:39 PM
LOL four years for the 'Starr Report'. Ever read it? It a 70,000,000 dollar joke. It has nothing to with the original Whitewater investigation. Since neither Bill Clinton nor Hillary were ever prosecuted, after three separate inquiries found insufficient evidence linking them with the criminal conduct of others related to the Whitewater land deal.
What the Starr report does contain is what I mentioned before. An intern, a stained dress, a cigar, and the definition of the word 'is'.
Personally I think the Starr report is a national embarrassment.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/icreport/icreport.htm
I'd wage the Mueller report is gonna be no different.
Buddahaid
08-06-17, 07:42 PM
I actually completely agree with you for once. :shucks:
Took 2 years with Nixon
...and Nixon was pretty much a slam dunk, given the tapes of his actual conversations in the Oval Office regarding his administration's efforts and activities in the execution and subsequent cover-up of Watergate and related issues...
<O>
Mr Quatro
08-07-17, 04:17 PM
I never got a chance to listen to those tapes ... I just assumed he was guilty and never bothered to even read the transcripts, but turns out that he lied before the watergate crimes were even committed:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/opinion/sunday/nixons-vietnam-treachery.html
Nixon’s Vietnam Treachery
By JOHN A. FARRELLDEC. 31, 2016
Richard M. Nixon always denied it: to David Frost, to historians and to Lyndon B. Johnson, who had the strongest suspicions and the most cause for outrage at his successor’s rumored treachery. To them all, Nixon insisted that he had not sabotaged Johnson’s 1968 peace initiative to bring the war in Vietnam to an early conclusion.
“My God. I would never do anything to encourage” South Vietnam “not to come to the table,” Nixon told Johnson, in a conversation captured on the White House taping system.
Now we know Nixon lied. A newfound cache of notes left by H. R. Haldeman, his closest aide, shows that Nixon directed his campaign’s efforts to scuttle the peace talks, which he feared could give his opponent, Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, an edge in the 1968 election. On Oct. 22, 1968, he ordered Haldeman to “monkey wrench” the initiative.
Just in case you don't click on links ...
Throughout his life, Nixon feared disclosure of this skulduggery. “I did nothing to undercut them,” he told Frost in their 1977 interviews. “As far as Madame Chennault or any number of other people,” he added, “I did not authorize them and I had no knowledge of any contact with the South Vietnamese at that point, urging them not to.” Even after Watergate, he made it a point of character. “I couldn’t have done that in conscience.”
Nixon had cause to lie. His actions appear to violate federal law, which prohibits private citizens from trying to “defeat the measures of the United States.” His lawyers fought throughout Nixon’s life to keep the records of the 1968 campaign private. The broad outline of “the Chennault affair” would dribble out over the years. But the lack of evidence of Nixon’s direct involvement gave pause to historians and afforded his loyalists a defense.
Time has yielded Nixon’s secrets. Haldeman’s notes were opened quietly at the presidential library in 2007, where I came upon them in my research for a biography of the former president. They contain other gems, like Haldeman’s notations of a promise, made by Nixon to Southern Republicans, that he would retreat on civil rights and “lay off pro-Negro crap” if elected president. There are notes from Nixon’s 1962 California gubernatorial campaign, in which he and his aides discuss the need to wiretap political foes.
When Johnson got word of Nixon’s meddling, he ordered the F.B.I. to track Chennault’s movements. She “contacted Vietnam Ambassador Bui Diem,” one report from the surveillance noted, “and advised him that she had received a message from her boss … to give personally to the ambassador. She said the message was … ‘Hold on. We are gonna win. … Please tell your boss to hold on.’ ”
In a conversation with the Republican senator Everett Dirksen, the minority leader, Johnson lashed out at Nixon. “I’m reading their hand, Everett,” Johnson told his old friend. “This is treason.”
“I know,” Dirksen said mournfully.
Johnson’s closest aides urged him to unmask Nixon’s actions. But on a Nov. 4 conference call, they concluded that they could not go public because, among other factors, they lacked the “absolute proof,” as Defense Secretary Clark Clifford put it, of Nixon’s direct involvement.
Nixon was elected president the next day.
Sad day for 20,000 more would die from that day on
Rockstar
08-07-17, 04:57 PM
Two sides to every story Mr. Quatro, two sides to every story. According to FARRELLDEC's story Dirksen and Johnson had no proof only conjecture.
Here is the otherside of FARRELLDEC's story
https://www.nixonfoundation.org/2017/06/misunderstanding-a-monkey-wrench/
Here are Haldeman's hand written notes:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3248783/H-R-Haldeman-s-Notes-from-Oct-22-1968.pdf
enjoy
The Nixon Foundation? :har::har:
They are the same people who basically tried to run the Nixon Presidential Library, who, for years, obliterated any full mention of Watergate from the Nixon Library's display of Nixon's life. The Library's display of Nixon's life and timeline used to just basically get to a point just before Watergate and then skip to something along the lines of 'Nixon decided to resign', with no real depiction of why Nixon left office; it was kind of like, 'Well, Dick needed a vacation'. Historians, of all political stripes, decried such a blatant effort to rewrite historical fact and whitewash what is, perhaps, our nation's worst Presidential criminal scandal. Eventually, the Nixon Foundation was ousted from having any major influence on the Library's exhibits and other content and actual historians were brought in to bring the exhibits closer to reality. However, even when the Library's historical exhibit record was set straight, the Nixon Foundation still tried to take another swing:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/01/local/la-me-0401-watergate-nixon-20110401
As for the Nixon Foundation's posting in the link supplied, the second to the last paragraph says this:
Of course, Mr. Farrell is entitled to his interpretation of the Haldeman notes, and the conclusions he draws from them. But the alternative interpretation, if nothing else, more clearly reflects the context of the actual Haldeman document. Therefore, it deserves consideration before accepting Mr. Farrell’s interpretation, and the very serious charge he bases on it.
So, it would seem, the intent is to discredit a conjecture with another conjecture, which is what an interpretation is, rather than with any actual fact...
The actual fact is that Nixon did act criminally and there is ample proof, in his own words and voice, to prove he acted criminally. NO amount of partisan 'historical' revision is going to erase those facts...
It should be noted Nixon's pardon was not entirely unconditional; he was still obligated to cooperate with any legal investigations of the conduct of others in his administration; this included being deposed or possibly being called to testify at court or Congressional hearings; as it was, he later gave testimony, under oath, to investigators that was found to be untrue, something that opened him up to further charges not covered by his pardon...
If anyone is interested, this is a link to an article in the August 1983 issue f The Atlantic giving a very detailed account of the motives and machinations behind the Nixon pardon:
The Pardon - Nixon, Ford, Haig, and the Transfer of Power --
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1983/08/the-pardon/305571/
<O>
Bubblehead1980
08-10-17, 04:27 PM
Something to ponder....
Amazing and scary the times in which we are living. An attempted coup against President Trump by the combined "deep state" is playing out before our eyes. Instead of using the military like in a lot of third world countries, or assassination (they did that already, in 1963) they are trying to manufacture a phony legal case, use propaganda from the media to create the appearance of impropriety and sell that. Of course for those who suffer from confirmation bias, Trump Derangment Syndrome, it's just what they want to hear but any objective person would ask. What has he done that is illegal or an investigation even ? Easy name quite a few things other Presidents have actually done, but stayed in office, and no mention of impeachment etc was made , because they played ball and were part of the machine.
Ask yourself, why do they want him gone so bad? Because they can't control him and force him to serve their intrests .They hate his agenda, America First.
Catfish
08-11-17, 01:55 AM
^ Sry to bother you but the "Deep State" concept of takeover is a politically entirely right-wing club, with interests of big oil and "defense".
Also the term "fake news" was originally coined to describe media companies like Breitbart, Fox and such. They are trying to turn this round 24 hours a day i know, but just saying that black is white or the moon is made of green cheese does not make it true.
Problem is that so many people seem to fall for that.
Not that the "left" cannot also lie, but the main media are usualy center and neutral, and only look "left" from the extreme (alt) right spectrum.
If there is any "coup" against Trump it must consist of level-headed people who want reason and common sense to return to America :03:
"Deep State" takeover; is it anything like Hillary's claim of a "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy"?...
Actually they are alike: they're both self-serving bull designed to deflect and distract from the flaws and failures of those who propose such idiotic concepts and the inherent flaws in their arguments...
<O>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85spFDF7p8Q
<O>
Bubblehead1980
08-11-17, 04:56 AM
^ Sry to bother you but the "Deep State" concept of takeover is a politically entirely right-wing club, with interests of big oil and "defense".
Also the term "fake news" was originally coined to describe media companies like Breitbart, Fox and such. They are trying to turn this round 24 hours a day i know, but just saying that black is white or the moon is made of green cheese does not make it true.
Problem is that so many people seem to fall for that.
Not that the "left" cannot also lie, but the main media are usualy center and neutral, and only look "left" from the extreme (alt) right spectrum.
If there is any "coup" against Trump it must consist of level-headed people who want reason and common sense to return to America :03:
This is not about right or left, there is and has been a power structure in this country for a long time, motivated mainly by globalist policies and money. The two parties are part of the same power structure, but it masters with competing interests. Bernie found that out in the primary, when the chosen one was selected to run the primary. People do have votes and some power, but in past population was far easier to control, manipulate etc.
Deep state is the powerful interests that have required us to pursue globalists policies at the expense of the american worker, act as the world's beat cop keeping us in perpetual war.
Population is more difficult to control now than in the past. A lot of people are awake, and voted in the one person they can not control. Why ? Trump has enough money, he can't be purchased. Skeletons we don't know about? None.
They are scared because he will no longer allow us to surrender to the false song of globalism(great line of his). Plans to stop the foolish, wreckless immigration and trade policies. Stop allowing us to be bullied around the world. Actually confront and defeat the savages of isis. Stop coddling those who follow the ideology of the enemy.
With a twitter account, he has made the established press largely irreleavant and shown the congress is a useless band of idiots.
Finally, we have a President pursuing America First. Reagan was a good man but like many, once in he decided to play within the system. People like Clinton who meant well, were purchased with ease. That is the issue, most people, especially those who would have never dreamed to have such wealth love the status and perks. Trump finally decided to run to make a real difference.
Last time anyone tried and really resisted deep state, he was executed in 1963. JFK refused to let the deep state get us in a nuclear war and was against their banking cartels. People know the truth about that, many accept it.
They are doing everything they can to try and bring down this President, who really is our obi wan, our only hope.
Bubblehead1980
08-11-17, 04:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85spFDF7p8Q
<O>
Colbert is a no talent hack, alwyas has been.
This is not about right or left, there is and has been a power structure in this country for a long time, motivated mainly by globalist policies and money. The two parties are part of the same power structure, but it masters with competing interests. Bernie found that out in the primary, when the chosen one was selected to run the primary. People do have votes and some power, but in past population was far easier to control, manipulate etc.
Deep state is the powerful interests that have required us to pursue globalists policies at the expense of the american worker, act as the world's beat cop keeping us in perpetual war.
Population is more difficult to control now than in the past. A lot of people are awake, and voted in the one person they can not control. Why ? Trump has enough money, he can't be purchased. Skeletons we don't know about? None.
They are scared because he will no longer allow us to surrender to the false song of globalism(great line of his). Plans to stop the foolish, wreckless immigration and trade policies. Stop allowing us to be bullied around the world. Actually confront and defeat the savages of isis. Stop coddling those who follow the ideology of the enemy.
With a twitter account, he has made the established press largely irreleavant and shown the congress is a useless band of idiots.
Finally, we have a President pursuing America First. Reagan was a good man but like many, once in he decided to play within the system. People like Clinton who meant well, were purchased with ease. That is the issue, most people, especially those who would have never dreamed to have such wealth love the status and perks. Trump finally decided to run to make a real difference.
Last time anyone tried and really resisted deep state, he was executed in 1963. JFK refused to let the deep state get us in a nuclear war and was against their banking cartels. People know the truth about that, many accept it.
They are doing everything they can to try and bring down this President, who really is our obi wan, our only hope.
All that and, you know what?...
In the primaries, more Republicans voted for candidates other than Trump than those who voted for him (44.9% Trump, 55.1% Others)...
In the Presidential Election, more voters, overall, voted for candidates other than Trump than those who voted for him (46.1% Trump, 53.9% Others) and Trump could not even achieve even a plurality...
Trump started off his term with the lowest starting approval rating in modern Presidential history and has, over the course of seven months, only seen his rating go even lower, to the low end of the 30% range, effectively making him a president with the backing of only one-third of the voters and opposed by a whopping two-thirds of the electorate...
Further disconcerting are poll results showing three-quarters of voters believe Trump is liar, something Trump actually can lay claim to as a Presidential first...
So, with all that, and more, in what way is Trump, by any measure, the "People's Choice" or in any way holding a solid mandate from the American voters and population? I fail to see any large or strong base of support for anyone who is disapproved of by 2/3 of the voters and who is thought of as a liar by 3/4 of those same people. Other than the staged, crowd controlled rallies Trump foists on the general public as "evidence" of his "popularity", when the real people in the real world gather to express their views on Trump, it is interesting to note the very large crowds enthusiastic participating in protest against Trump compared to the dismally small and listless pro-Trump turn-outs...
Trump was given a relatively easy opponent to defeat in Hillary Clinton, and he still couldn't con enough people to enable him to beat her in the popular vote...
<O>
Colbert is a no talent hack, alwyas has been.
That the best rebuttal you've got? Poor, weak...
https://i.redditmedia.com/50rYTYwBO_iMEYF2vva88SaMR84E4LNEDqsHedpfMy0.jpg?w= 320&https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t/s320x320/17077558_914676008635841_4255663831230971904_n.jpg
<O>
Platapus
08-11-17, 07:17 AM
I called several pizza places and none of them had any Deep State. They had Deep Dish. Is what what they meant by Pizzagate?
u crank
08-11-17, 08:14 AM
Before completely disregarding the whole 'deep state' thing I would suggest reading this article by Glenn Greenwald.
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/
That the U.S. has a shadowy, secretive world of intelligence and military operatives who exercise great power outside of elections and democratic accountability is not some exotic, alt-right conspiracy theory; it’s utterly elemental to understanding anything about how Washington works. It’s hard to believe that anyone on this side of a sixth grade civics class would seek to deny that.
In terms of some of the popular terms that are often thrown around these days — such as “authoritarianism” and “democratic norms” and “U.S. traditions” — it’s hard to imagine many things that would pose a greater threat to all of that than empowering the national security state (what, before Trump, has long been called the Deep State) to exert precisely the power that is supposed to be reserved exclusively for elected officials. In sum, Trump opponents should be careful of what they wish for, as it might come true.
I called several pizza places and none of them had any Deep State. They had Deep Dish. Is what what they meant by Pizzagate?
^ :haha::haha::haha:
...and be sure to ask for no anchovies, kale, pineapple...
<O>
Mr Quatro
08-11-17, 08:54 AM
^ :haha::haha::haha:
...and be sure to ask for no anchovies, kale, pineapple...
<O>
Don't forget "no spam" either :haha:
If there is any "coup" against Trump it must consist of level-headed people who want reason and common sense to return to America :03:
Oh it just must be because after all you know all about it right? :03:
Catfish
08-11-17, 11:40 AM
Before completely disregarding the whole 'deep state' thing I would suggest reading this article by Glenn Greenwald.
[...]
"That the U.S. has a shadowy, secretive world of intelligence and military operatives who exercise great power outside of elections and democratic accountability is not some exotic, alt-right conspiracy theory; it’s utterly elemental to understanding anything about how Washington works. It’s hard to believe that anyone on this side of a sixth grade civics class would seek to deny that. "
No, you misunderstood. I do not say that the deep state theory is wrong, i just find it hard to believe that the "deep state" consists of left-leaning supporters, considering who is supposed to be involved. From arms industry, weapon manufacturers to big oil, to banks, to the secret services. This is not the traditional left background.
I found it interesting, that just of all media like Breitbart accuses the left of creating or even being this "deep state". But what else would you expect from them. Black is white, turn it all around with lies and desinformation until people are completely confused, and then strike.
@August i do not claim to know all, i propose to read about home made state terrorism, beginning with Gladio. From the german Verfassungsschutz founded by the US to counter communism, to the stay-behind armies, to fueling state terrorism and blame it all on the left, this is not the work of the "left".
I cannot see president Trump to belong to either side though.. maybe this is the best argument for him.
u crank
08-11-17, 01:32 PM
No, you misunderstood. I do not say that the deep state theory is wrong, i just find it hard to believe that the "deep state" consists of left-leaning supporters, considering who is supposed to be involved.
From the article I linked...
It is often claimed that this trans-partisan, elite coalition assembled against Trump because they are simply American patriots horrified by the threat he poses to America’s noble traditions and institutions. I guess if you want to believe that the CIA, the GOP consulting class, and assorted D.C. imperialists, along with Bush-era neocons like Bill Kristol and David Frum, woke up one day and developed some sort of earnest, patriotic conscience about democracy, ethics, constitutional limits, and basic decency, you’re free to believe that. It makes for a nice, moving story: a film from the “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” genre. But at the very least, Trump’s campaign assaults on their most sacred pieties was, and remains, a major factor in their seething contempt for him.
From arms industry, weapon manufacturers to big oil, to banks, to the secret services. This is not the traditional left background.
I would be curious to know why you would think that? Do you have any data that would prove it? Are the only rich industrialists in America conservatives?
I found it interesting, that just of all media like Breitbart accuses the left of creating or even being this "deep state".
I don't think you read the article I posted. Political loyalty has very little to do with this so called 'deep state.' It's money and power. Trump is either knowingly or unknowingly causing it to act to protect it's own interests. It may be the only good thing he does.:03:
Catfish
08-11-17, 02:57 PM
I probably have a different view of the term "deep state", which i thought is who really controls, holds the power and is the real king maker, since decades.
Rockstar
08-11-17, 03:24 PM
'deep state' its just new term for what we used to call the good ol'boy network.
Sailor Steve
08-11-17, 04:58 PM
This is not about right or left, there is and has been a power structure in this country for a long time, motivated mainly by globalist policies and money.
Really? That's an interesting statement coming from someone who has always marched in lockstep with the far Right.
I have a couple of problems with your reasoning, or lack thereof.
Skeletons we don't know about? None.
If we don't know about them, how do we know there aren't any? I'm not saying there are, or that we should even be looking. I'm just pointing out the lack of logic in that statement.
Last time anyone tried and really resisted deep state, he was executed in 1963. JFK refused to let the deep state get us in a nuclear war and was against their banking cartels. People know the truth about that, many accept it.
You had an entire thread on this some time ago. You say "people" know the truth about it. Care to tell us which people? Any actual evidence? As for many accepting it, may also accept aliens travelling light years to visit us in secret and screw with our crops.
With a twitter account, he has made the established press largely irreleavant and shown the congress is a useless band of idiots.
With a twitter account he has pretty much made himself look foolish. The man seems to have no self-control at all.
Trump finally decided to run to make a real difference.
Or he finally saw a chance to grab the esteem he's always lacked.
They are doing everything they can to try and bring down this President, who really is our obi wan, our only hope.
Obi-Wan? Really? And you say it's not about Right and Left? It sure looks that way to anyone who's not locked into one side or the other.
Platapus
08-11-17, 07:29 PM
Wow and some people claimed that the Democrats thought of Obama as the Messiah. Yikes.
Deja vu, all over again...
<O>
Buddahaid
08-11-17, 07:58 PM
OK, that was worth repeating. This whole men in black deep state business most certainly has some truth in it, at least I find it hard to believe it doesn't exist at all, but I find it hard to believe it has any overriding power. If it did we wouldn't be talking abo....uuggg... grrrrr.......xxxxxxxxxxx
http://imageshack.com/a/img922/4619/PDckXz.png
Skybird
08-12-17, 05:00 AM
http://www.dw.com/en/donald-trump-says-military-option-for-venezuelas-nicolas-maduro-on-the-table/a-40063863
The Donald roars again. Now that Korea seems to count as a race lost - Venezuela maybe? However, the rest of the Donaldinarium does not seem to like the idea.
Trump's just playing to the rubes; he found a new "flip" to play out and he's trying to ride it for all its worth; maybe he thinks it will give him political leverage for whatever course of action he may be considering regarding his Russian problems, his flawed leadership problems, his lack of cohesive foreign and domestic policy problems, his dissension with in his own nominal party, his lack of focused policies overall; at the very least it gives him another 'bright, shiny object' to dangle before the eyes of his true believers and hold them in dazzle thrall...
Someone made the claim of Trump being an Obie Wan Kenobi; he is more akin to the duplicitous sap who, while hiding behind his curtain, was the "Great and Powerful Oz", but once the curtain is removed is little more than huckster/snake-oil salesman, Professor Marvel. Sorry, all you Trumpettes out there: The Chump is not going to give you brains or hearts or courage; he's just gonna take all that from you and leave you behind as he whisks away in a balloon filled with his own hot air...
<O>
Platapus
08-12-17, 06:41 AM
Serves as a great distraction from domestic issues.
em2nought
08-13-17, 12:00 AM
I'm sort of disappointed that the press hasn't reported hearing Panzerlied https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ)
being sung in Charlottesville this weekend. :03:
I bet nothing that happened in Virginia bothered you either! You disappointed you couldn't join the Trump supporters marching with a torch in their hands? I bet old Dukes is disappointed you couldn't make the trip,lol
"Don't know if this has been discussed"
According to a Swedish news paper, there's a plot inside the White House to get rid of President Trump. (Politically that is)
Markus
em2nought
08-13-17, 03:26 PM
I bet nothing that happened in Virginia bothered you either! You disappointed you couldn't join the Trump supporters marching with a torch in their hands? I bet old Dukes is disappointed you couldn't make the trip,lol
Personally, I'd rather that we just divide up the country peacefully. Let the democrat side have their rainbow flags and transgender troopers, and let the other side keep a statue of Robert E. Lee if they want. Retire the USA, and make two new joints with new names.
Sailor Steve
08-14-17, 06:32 AM
Personally, I'd rather that we just divide up the country peacefully. Let the democrat side have their rainbow flags and transgender troopers, and let the other side keep a statue of Robert E. Lee if they want. Retire the USA, and make two new joints with new names.
And you'd have to divide into a lot more than just two. There are those of us who don't follow either of those memes.
And you'd have to divide into a lot more than just two. There are those of us who don't follow either of those memes.
I think neutrality will eventually become impossible to maintain just as it did in both the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.
em2nought
08-15-17, 01:26 AM
And you'd have to divide into a lot more than just two. There are those of us who don't follow either of those memes.
Divided I think the radicals on both sides would put their "flags" back in the closet for another decade or so at least. Of course someday the democrat territory would become another Venezuela. I'm not sure what the other territory would become, Argentina? We'd have to keep an eye on Canada too since they've taken to placing troops on their border because I guess they don't like "illegal" immigrants so much. They may want revenge for that ill fated 1812 invasion still too. :03:
They may want revenge for that ill fated 1812 invasion still too. :03:
They already got their revenge when they burned down Washington DC, so we're even in that regard although they certainly could have done a better job of it and saved us much trouble... :)
Hey it looks like Trumps tough talk has made the Norks blink...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-backs-off-guam-missile-attack-threat-1502751054
SEOUL—North Korean leader Kim Jong Un has decided not to launch a threatened missile attack on Guam, Pyongyang’s state media reported on Tuesday, but warned that he could change his mind “if the Yankees persist in their extremely dangerous reckless actions.”
Translated:
"We don't want our country to be turned into a glass floored self lighting parking lot so we're going to tone down our rhetoric until some future time when we think we can get away with it."
Von Due
08-15-17, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't completely rule out the effect of China's message to both NK and the US.
Nippelspanner
08-15-17, 10:44 AM
http://i.imgur.com/m491ASv.jpg
AVGWarhawk
08-15-17, 10:56 AM
Hey it looks like Trumps tough talk has made the Norks blink...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-backs-off-guam-missile-attack-threat-1502751054
Translated:
"We don't want our country to be turned into a glass floored self lighting parking lot so we're going to tone down our rhetoric until some future time when we think we can get away with it."
Saber rattling is NK profession.
Rockstar
08-15-17, 11:25 AM
I wouldn't completely rule out the effect of China's message to both NK and the US.
Nor would I rule the idea that China reigned in Fatboy because we were prepared to not back down and even go so far as to respond with 'fire and fury' . Personally I think we had them both by the balls on this one.
Im also for allowing the U.S. Navy continue freedom of navigation and joint military excercisies with Japan and South Korea and even going so far as giving them the keys to their own nuclear weapons.
This whole Kim/Trump dust-up has reminded me of clubs and bars, particularly my days as a bartender. Kim/Trump are a lot like a couple of loudmouthed, belligerent drunks (on perceived power, perhaps?) you see in bars and clubs who get into a shouting match daring each other and threatening each other as the crowd looks on; generally, those types of dust-ups rarely result in an actual fight since both 'combatants' are inwardly hoping some friend of theirs or other bystander will step in and/or hold them back with the obligatory stance of "Ya, well, I could have taken ya, if he hadn't stepped in!"...
China is kind of like the bouncer in this go round; aside from just talking to NK, they also, in the last few days put some serious sanctions on NK regarding imports into China; I would have to say that factor had more to do with NK pulling back than any of the Trump rhetoric; its about 6,900 miles (11,100km) from DC to Pyongyang and China is a hell of a lot closer and bigger; in a barroom shouting match, the bouncer in your face gets much more of your attention than the guy you were yelling at at the end of the bar...
<O>
Rockstar
08-15-17, 12:09 PM
Yes it was nice of China to slap fatboy with sanctions all praise China the savior of the world. Why is it you think they stepped up to the plate this time with such vigor? I wonder too if their missile technolgy and parts are included in those sanctions? Or do you really think the Norks have secret underground lairs and the education to develope their own?
I still say we should make'em squeal like a pig a little longer.
Rockstar
08-15-17, 12:12 PM
Realize too these days distance isnt much of an issue when it comes to retaliating against an aggressor either. Obviously China knows that cruise missle diplomacy works. And with Hypersonic tech around the corner the world will get even smaller.
Yes it was nice of China to slap fatboy with sanctions all praise China the savior of the world. Why is it you think they stepped up to the plate this time with such vigor? I wonder too if their missile technolgy and parts are included in those sanctions? Or do you really think the Norks have secret underground lairs and the education to develope their own?
I still say we should make'em squeal like a pig a little longer.
Amazing how some people are so eager to try out the Mao suit huh?
I agree with you, we should keep putting the screws to them.
The screws, as you put it, are only effective if their is broad based support for sanctions; the US, alone, is relatively powerless to seriously affect the economy of NK since there is no trade at all between the two nations; short of a naval blockade, there is nothing the US alone can do; that is why the US had to go to the UN and ask for the imposition of more stringent sanctions. It is notable, in the current appeal for stringent sanctions, China did not exercise its veto power, something it has often done in the past; if China had not cooperated with the new sanctions appeal, and, as importantly, actually participated in their imposition, all the US would have had left is bellicose saber rattling and chest thumping and NK would have just merrily gone on its own path. Using the analogy of a bar fight again, one thing I have learned is the biggest threat in a bar comes not from the guys being loudly belligerent (sound and fury signifying nothing), but, most often from the taciturn guy at the end of the bar: he's more likely to be dangerous because he doesn't have to advertise his skills; he has the confidence of his abilities and has no need for needless embellishments. Trump and Kim are the loudmouths the bouncers will have to eventually throw out; China is more like one of those guys of which the bouncers and bartenders are wary...
Remember Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."...
<O>
Mr Quatro
08-15-17, 01:27 PM
Amazing how some people are so eager to try out the Mao suit huh?
I agree with you, we should keep putting the screws to them.
Fat boy Kim did the same thing I did ... He believed Trump was going to pull the trigger if provoked by NK :yep:
Von Due
08-15-17, 01:36 PM
NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.
It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.
NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.
It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.
...or, basically, the bouncer settling down the noisy drunks...
<O>
Von Due
08-15-17, 02:17 PM
...or, basically, the bouncer settling down the noisy drunks...
<O>
Pretty much spot on.
Jimbuna
08-15-17, 02:55 PM
Gentlemen, we already have a thread dedicated to the escalation of troubles between the US and NK.
'Strike on North Korea ' http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=230409&page=21
Rockstar
08-15-17, 03:19 PM
NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.
It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.
NK has been a headache for China? China the same country that is most likely supplying little Un and his regime with the technology, parts and guidance systems to build and fly these missiles to a specific target? You might believe NK is some red headed stepchild nobody wants. But I dont, not for a moment. What I do beleive is China has backed away from their little frankenstein which they created to save face to convince the gullable they didnt have anything to do with the latest headlines. They, that is North Korea AND China tested us we repsonded in no uncertain terms were we going to sit and take threats of nuclear warfare lightly. they blinked first and lost.
Von Due
08-15-17, 03:31 PM
Yes, NK has been quite the headache for China. Since you read the news then no doubt you would have read how NK airlines have been denied entry into Chinese airspace, or how China barred the coal trade, to mention 2 actions. China is not happy with NK at all. China seeks to expand economically into the western markets so they need to distance themselves from what is a family run bandit state. Expedience above all, like for everybody else.
Jim: Sorry, didn't see your post before now. Feel free to merge. Over and out.
em2nought
08-16-17, 03:31 AM
Sooooooo, this certainly wouldn't fit the deep state approved narrative https://www.challengerforumz.com/threads/accelerator-sticking.67603/
http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/holy-crap-throttle-stuck-when-driving-7774/
http://www.challengerlife.com/threads/stuck-throttle.4875/
Up until now they seem to have felt it was a "feature" instead of a fault. Sorry officer, my throttle is stuck. :03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVGsb5kjXlQ
<O>
Outraged Democrats are outraged at Trumps not strong enough for them condemnation of last weekends political violence. Go figure.
But whereas Trump is being pilloried for not being one sided enough the Democrats have a long history of actual racism.
For example:
From the Wiki article on Woodrow Wilson Democrat President:
Several historians have spotlighted consistent examples in the public record of Wilson's overtly racist policies and political appointments, such as segregationists he placed in his cabinet. According to scholars, Wilson believed that slavery was wrong on economic labor grounds, rather than for moral reasons.
They also argue that he idealized the slavery system in the South, viewing masters as patient with "indolent" (i.e. lazy) slaves. In terms of Reconstruction, Wilson held the common southern view that the South was demoralized by Northern carpetbaggers and that overreach on the part of the Radical Republicans justified extreme measures to reassert Democratic national and state governments.
Cabinet heads appointed by President Wilson re-segregated restrooms and cafeterias in their buildings. During Wilson's presidency, the film The Birth of a Nation (1915) became the first motion picture to be in screened in the White House.
Outraged Democrats are outraged at Trumps not strong enough for them condemnation of last weekends political violence. Go figure.
But whereas Trump is being pilloried for not being one sided enough the Democrats have a long history of actual racism.
For example:
From the Wiki article on Woodrow Wilson Democrat President:
There are those whose actions, utterances, and beliefs are repugnant and vile, and they are not limited to any particular stripe. Let's take a look at your 'attack' on the Democrats, whom you've lumped into one great mass, much in the way you decry how others have lumped those whom you seek to defend...
True, Wilson did enact and support actions and policies that were vile and inhumane and, yes, he was a Democrat. It could be argued whatever Wilson did was more than counter-balanced by another Democrat President, Lyndon Johnson, who pushed for and managed to get passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964), a bill he actually got to sign into law as US President. At this point, it should be noted, the Southern, segregationist states in the US (virtually all of them former Confederate states in the Civil War) were solidly Democratic and voted for Democratic candidates and issues as a block. When Johnson, and the other Democratic leaders in Congress managed to get the Rights Act passed, the reaction from the South was swift and angry; the Segregationists felt they were betrayed by the Democratic Party. There was a sudden political vacuum in the South...
Steeping in to fill the vacuum was a political ploy called the Southern Strategy, wherein a political alternative to the disaffected Southern segregationist voters was offered as a refuge for their beliefs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
Yes, the Republican Party, in an act of self-serving opportunistic cynicism went after the Segregationist voters in an attempt to shore up their sagging vote tallies, in effect actively aligning themselves racism and intolerance. This was not the action of a single person like Wilson to enforce segregation or Johnson to end segregation, this was an institutionalized, Republican Party-sanctioned embrace within its policies to support and endorse the Segregationist causes. The Republicans did get the white segregationist votes they yearned for, but at the cost of losing Southern and national African-American voters...
Around the year 2000, the GOP came to realize the Southern Segregationist vote was shrinking and the national mood among all voters was antithetic to perceived political support for racism; the GOP was also hemorrhaging the little African-American support it still retained. In the face of the fact the Southern Strategy was more of a bust than a boon, the GOP, in 2005, moved to distance itself from the very strategy they created, culminating in the GOP Chairman publicly apologizing for and repudiating the GOP's adoption of the Southern Strategy...
So, the question now is: Will the GOP leadership, both in and out of Congress, have the courage and moral and ethical substance to fully repudiate the stance of Trump and align themselves with the better part of the US people, or will they, for the sake of preserving dubious transient political "gain", once again fall back on a "Trump Strategy" and risk losing whatever little moral high-ground they have left?...
So, yes there was a racist Democratic President and he was thus abhorrent and his actions undone by a Democratic President...
Now, there is a morally abhorrent GOP president and what is the GOP doing to address the matter?...
<O>
Another reason Robert E. Lee was a great leader and a wise man:
Robert E. Lee Opposed Confederate Monuments --
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments/
Even Robert E. Lee Wanted the Confederate Flag Gone --
http://www.thedailybeast.com/even-robert-e-lee-wanted-the-confederate-flag-gone
<O>
How do they say, you should always look at the positive side of things.
The one which I see in the running 'experiment' is that more and more people see that it is obviously not enough to just be not part of the political 'establishment'.
You need skills and be a leader...
Mr Quatro
08-17-17, 01:49 PM
How do they say, you should always look at the positive side of things.
The one which I see in the running 'experiment' is that more and more people see that it is obviously not enough to just be not part of the political 'establishment'.
You need skills and be a leader...
True we should try not to judge people good or bad all of the time ... have you noticed that some of the Republican's against Trump ran for the GOP nomination in 2016?
Speaking of Senator Rubio I heard that someone in Venezuela has put out a price on his head.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article167720117.html
Platapus
08-17-17, 02:31 PM
It is not often that I find blog posts that are as awesomely awesome as my posts, but I think this is was well thought out. I kinda wished I had written it
I was involved in "protesting" (we called it direct action) on nuclear, environmental, and social justice issues, primarily in the 1980s and 1990s.
I was active at Nevada Test Site, Rocky Flats, etc. arrested numerous times, and went to trial at an interesting case in Colorado where we invoked the Nuremberg principles and were defended pro bono by Francis Boyle.
I support the counter-protestors in Charlottesville; however, the violence, punching, etc. was wrong and Trump has a point about that. Anybody who reads that last sentence I wrote and interprets it as, "sympathizes with Nazis" is too far gone for rational discussion.
With that said, the vast majority of counter-protestors were peaceful, so it is only a minority of them causing trouble.
Why is violence a problem? Let's look at practical issues, leaving to one side ethical issues for a moment:
1) The grievances the Nazis brought to the protest were illegitimate. However, they had a permit and a first amendment right to speak. The violence meant that a state of emergency was declared and they couldn't speak.
They now have legitimate grievances.
Think about that for a second. Some portion of them were hard-core racists, but some other portion looked to be people on the fence, confused kids and so on, with a more soft core ideology.
The words of their racist mentors now ring true.
"Society is against the white man! There's not such thing as free speech! We have to do anything necessary to defend ourselves!" They were handed these legitimate grievances on a silver platter by inexperienced activists.
A wonderful recruiting tool for the Nazis. A more productive approach would have been to let them speak, go home, and crawl back under the rocks they call home. That's been going on for years. You get a few outraged newspaper articles, and everybody forgets about the Nazis. Now Charlottesville becomes a cause for them. Many more people are looking at their websites today that would have been otherwise.
2) There is no percentage in escalating tension, especially when the other side has guns. Alison Krause, one of the four people killed at Kent State, was my babysitter a few years before that, when she was in high school. Nobody thought that guns would be fired there, either. The kid that ran over people in Charlottesville was a known Nazi. His high school teacher tried to talk him out of it, without success. But at least the kid didn't pull a Columbine, and maybe in part that is because of ongoing dialog. What if his high school teacher had shamed him in front of his peers, yelled at him in class, confronted him, and so on? We might have seen what happened in Charlottesville happen years earlier with this kid. It isn't backing down to not confront people. The clergy marched in Charlottesville peacefully, and honestly, their message was more powerful than the message of the folks fist-fighting in the middle of the street.
3) You lose sympathy from the public when you engage in violence. Let's say the counter-protestors had woken up at dawn, occupied the park, and refused to move. Let's say the police had to remove them forceably, but without active resistance on the part of the counter-protestors. By that I mean the police had to lift people off the ground, because the counter-protestors let their bodies go limp and so on. Right and wrong are clear in that scenario. There is no room for debate. But when you punch people, now you have a problem. You are not going to win many people over. Despite all the impassioned discussion of WWII and so on, a lot of people are only going to see that counter-protestors were fighting in the street, and they're right. It's undeniable. As far as they're concerned, you can take your cause and stuff it. They don't want violence in the street.
For this and many other reasons, the great humanitarian leaders like Martin Luther King and Gandhi advocated non-violent resistance. People hear "non-violence" and think "ethical, but wishy-washy." But that's not it at all. It is an effective and practical tactic. They were brilliant campaigners, who planned in detail potential court challenges, etc. and were acutely aware of the public image of their campaigns. It's worth noting that Martin Luther King organized sucessfully when his base in the south was roughly synonymous with the church. Those folks were non-violent and shared a common ideology. But he was unsuccessful organizing cities in the north, where the church didn't tie people together as well.
When we did our actions, we had non-violence training. We expected to be arrested, possibly roughed up or beaten, and we had to learn to de-escalate, to not get involved. Not only did many of the counter-protestors in Charlottesville appear to lack non-violence training, but it looked like many of them were spoiling for a fight.
What was the plan, exactly? When we went to the Nevada Test Site, we based our resistance on the Treaty of Ruby Valley, which awarded the Test Site land to the Western Shoshone. The government subsequently took the land from the Western Shoshone, but the whole thing was fishy. We got permits from the Western Shoshone to be on the Test Site, signed by Corbin Harney. We wanted to provoke a court case. We were arrested for criminal trespass, and then got letters afterwards saying that all charges had been dropped. Happened year after year. But eventually, if you do stuff like that, you might find a fair-minded judge who is willing to hear the particulars of the case. In other words, we had a plan for change. What was the plan of the people fighting in the street in Charlottesville? It looked like no plan at all.
Our country is so partisan now, that if you point out what I just pointed out, you get called a Nazi. Why? Because you don't sympathize 100% with inexperienced activists causing trouble in the street. I sympathize with their cause, but not with what happened. The Nazis were wrong. I wish they'd never called that rally. But some aspects of the resistance were wrong too. I mean, what if the Nazis disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow.
I saw people cheering in Charlottesville because other citizens were denied their right to speak.
So that would be O.K., in a post-Nazi world? No free speech, for anybody who decides that they know right from wrong? Next Bernie can't speak? Or Hillary? Or Ted Cruz? Maybe activists derail an Oprah campaign event and cheer, because they're "right?"
They way I see it, Trump was correct to call the left out in Charlottesville, even if he did it for the wrong reasons. Where he erred was in not making a more forceful and heartfelt declaration that the values of Nazis and white supremacists have no place in America. That should have been front and center.
I understand that a lot of people in the street were just kids, and spontaneous, and so on. I get it. I've been there. A lot. But still, a movement has to have goals, tactics, and principles. In any conflict, there is right and wrong on both sides. Maybe it's 95% to 5%, but there is still right and wrong on both sides. The left shouldn't deny that mixing it up in the street was bad. They should acknowledge it, and point to the much greater evil.
I end this with an appropriate quote that is one of my favourites
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky
SiegDerMaus
08-17-17, 05:33 PM
I don't think it's the president's place to condemn ideology. What he did condemn was hate and violence. People do have a right to protest and to be heard, and to have their own political beliefs, however wrong you and I may feel they are. The president is the voice of our nation and of our people, I think it would be improper for him to condemn a belief held by Americans. But he did condemn what was wrong in those beliefs, and what those beliefs have wrought.
The violence on both sides was despicable. As was the hate on both sides, and I believe that is all that needs condemning. As a Christian woman, I believe in tolerance and non-violence, but I am also against the removal of Confederate monuments. The Confederates were not solely about slavery or racism. These monuments are monuments to people who risked their lives and livelihoods for a cause they believed in and for a country they loved. And we have no right to take that away from them. Or to revise history.
Regardless, I've drifted off topic a bit. The president condemning their ideology would be, to me, as bad as the leftist protesters cheering when they were denied their rights to protest. He condemned hate, and he condemned violence, and that is enough for me.
Aktungbby
08-18-17, 12:39 AM
As a Christian woman, I believe in tolerance and non-violence, but I am also against the removal of Confederate monuments. The Confederates were not solely about slavery or racism. These monuments are monuments to people who risked their lives and livelihoods for a cause they believed in and for a country they loved.
Well I've no objection to tearing down monuments of slave owners and I'm a Confederate reenactor to boot. But ya gotta be absolutely fair:O::https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/08/16/us/17-BALTIMORE-hp/17-BALTIMORE-hp-master768-v2.jpg Bear in mind that Lee had married up into the Custis family and 'his' slaves were actually the inherited property of his wife; Lee assumed management of his wife's assets including slaves on the death 1857 of his father-in-law- in accordance with duties of a gentleman/husband of the Virginia plantation class. General US Grant, who lived in Missouri had emancipated his only personal slave in 1859: one William Jones-$1500 value. The slaves from his father-in-law were still in the possession of his wife, Julia Dent, while she lived in Missouri on the (her) family's plantation during the war. Missouri, not being in rebellion, was not included in the Emancipation Proclamation 1862https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Emancipation_Proclamation.PNG/220px-Emancipation_Proclamation.PNG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emancipation_Proclamation.PNG) (only specifically affected ten state in open rebellion) 1863 and were not freed until Missouri officially ended slavery in 1865. https://pastexplore.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/did-ulysses-s-grant-own-slaves-during-the-civil-war/ (https://pastexplore.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/did-ulysses-s-grant-own-slaves-during-the-civil-war/) Bottom line: Both supreme commanders benefitted from slave labor during the Civil War! We must not permit 'victor's justice' in our historical revisionism of the PC moment!:doh: Grant's statues must be pulled down as well-such as the one in Washington DC...and of course no slave owner has any business on a $50 bill!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/50_USD_Series_2004_Note_Front.jpg/200px-50_USD_Series_2004_Note_Front.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:50_USD_Series_2004_Note_Front.jpg):shucks:
The Grant Memorial on the west side of the U.S. Capitol>https://angelialevy.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/grantmemorial-nathanculpepper.jpg It's all gotta go BBY! https://www.aoc.gov/capitol-grounds/ulysses-s-grant-memorial (https://www.aoc.gov/capitol-grounds/ulysses-s-grant-memorial):03:
SiegDerMaus
08-18-17, 12:58 AM
To be clear, I'm against tearing down any monuments. Monuments were built by those who came before us as sacred symbols of what they found worthy of honouring. Not only are they a valuable glimpse at the values of our ancestors, but they are a part of our history. And history, however dark, needs to be taught and preserved.
Aktungbby
08-18-17, 01:49 AM
^I completely understood that m'am:salute:: But ya gotta be absolutely fair:O: My post is to humorously point up that the 'ever-PC' NAACP and/or it's minions will never pull down Grant's statue currently opposite the 'Great Emancipator' in DC at the National Mall. Blame rather should be (conveniently) laid on the spouses...also good Christian Southern Belles "however dark" their inheritances:timeout: which poor career soldiers like Lee and Grant (both had serious issues with bankruptcy) found suitably convenient as a means of rising in society. Ms Dent and Ms Custis had over two hundred slaves between the two of them. As a history graduate, any attempt at PC revisionism, much less deadly violence about it after 152 years is utterly reprehensible imho. And to be honest; Grant never defended his slave-holding with the alleged statement: "Good help is hard to find" :03: We'll leave that remark to the current bankrupt(morally and otherwi$e) now infesting the White House!:haha:
SiegDerMaus
08-18-17, 02:56 AM
^I completely understood that m'am:salute:: My post is to humorously point up that the 'ever-PC' NAACP and/or it's minions will never pull down Grant's statue currently opposite the 'Great Emancipator' in DC at the National Mall. Blame rather should be (conveniently) laid on the spouses...also good Christian Southern Belles "however dark" their inheritances:timeout: which poor career soldiers like Lee and Grant (both had serious issues with bankruptcy) found suitably convenient as a means of rising in society. Ms Dent and Ms Custis had over two hundred slaves between the two of them. As a history graduate, any attempt at PC revisionism, much less deadly violence about it after 152 years is utterly reprehensible imho. And to be honest; Grant never defended his slave-holding with the alleged statement: "Good help is hard to find" :03: We'll leave that remark to the current bankrupt(morally and otherwi$e) now infesting the White House!:haha:
Ah, my apologies, I suppose Poe's Law strikes again. :oops:
I agree with you completely, though, that revisionism for the sake of "political correctness" is absolute garbage. In my high school days, I was part of a campaign to prevent our library from replacing our library's copies of the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn with censored versions to remove all the racist terminology. Are we that sensitive as a culture that some of us cannot take works of art in their historical context and appreciate them for what they are?
I don't know why Trump is so upset about the taking down of the statues of Lee, Beauregard, etc.: didn't Trump say he only liked generals who win? :03:
https://wallbuilders.com/george-washington-thomas-jefferson-slavery-virginia/
I found this link a few months ago when I was researching another subject (I am nothing if not tangential). The site itself is run by a conservative, religious-based organization. The linked page give a very detailed account of the issue of slave ownership by Washington and Jefferson and the attitudes of the two great men towards slavery. There is an impressive degree of citation and attribution to the page and, even though a bit long is well worth the effort to read; those of you who are of the "TLDR" bent are missing out on a very, very good source of information on the subject...
The site, even though by a religious group, is not heavy handed in its evangelism and is filled with articles and materials related to American history. It is well worth a good browse...
<O>
didn't Trump say he only liked generals who win? :03:
lol ;)
Platapus
08-18-17, 01:18 PM
Instead of tearing down these statues/monuments, why not just erect an informative plaque on them explaining the history and the affects of the events depicted in the statue/memorial?
Citizens both current and future are not best served by concealing out history but by exposing them to our history (the good, the bad, and the ugly) and in educating the citizens about the history.
Speaking of awesome blogs I thought this was spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ
u crank
08-18-17, 01:46 PM
Instead of tearing down these statues/monuments, why not just erect an informative plaque on them explaining the history and the affects of the events depicted in the statue/memorial?
Citizens both current and future are not best served by concealing out history but by exposing them to our history (the good, the bad, and the ugly) and in educating the citizens about the history.
Stop it. You are making way to much sense and I'm getting confused. :O:
:up:
u crank
08-18-17, 01:50 PM
Speaking of awesome blogs I thought this was spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ
Good find August. She gets it absolutely dead on about the media. Time to call these media types out for their blatant bias and political agenda.
Obliterating history? One guy gave a pretty good response in Trump's favorite communication method, the Tweet:
All these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be thrilled to learn about the existence of books.
— Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith) August 16, 2017 (https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/897969628281884672)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jamil-smith-tweet-confederate-statues-erase-history_us_5997159ae4b0e8cc855d66ee
Although, given the literacy level of some of the Neo-Nazi, KKK, etc. members, maybe books aren't an option...
...and we all know Trump can't deal with anything over 140 characters, particularly if it doesn't mention him in a glowing manner...
<O>
Platapus
08-18-17, 03:27 PM
Stop it. You are making way to much sense and I'm getting confused. :O:
:up:
We could have plaques on both sides of each monument.
On one side we can have "It's all Obama's fault"
On the other side we can have "It's all Trump's fault"
Everyone is happy. :up:
They could move the statues to some Civil War battlefields too, plenty of them in Virginia. The park service has said that the statue of Lee in Gettysburg will not be taken down, so why not move the others to Battlefields a particular general was present during the war.
Mr Quatro
08-18-17, 06:39 PM
We could have plaques on both sides of each monument.
On one side we can have "It's all Obama's fault"
On the other side we can have "It's all Trump's fault"
Everyone is happy. :up:
Cute! Bound to pass the GOP Congress and the Senate, but if it is designed like the Vietnam memorial ... it would be a lot longer even using both sides.
620,000 soldiers
Approximately 620,000 soldiers died from combat, accident, starvation, and disease during the Civil War.
How do you build a wall that holds that many names? :o
Rockstar
08-18-17, 06:42 PM
meh, I dont care what ya do with the statues both sides of my family didnt come to the U.S. until the 1890's.
Rockstar
08-18-17, 06:43 PM
We could have plaques on both sides of each monument.
On one side we can have "It's all Obama's fault"
On the other side we can have "It's all Trump's fault"
Everyone is happy. :up:
:Kaleun_Applaud: :D
Rockstar
08-18-17, 07:32 PM
Speaking of awesome blogs I thought this was spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ
http://jeanporter.cmswiki.wikispaces.net/file/view/idiom...hit_the_nail_on_the_head.gif/254878970/idiom...hit_the_nail_on_the_head.gif
Cute! Bound to pass the GOP Congress and the Senate, but if it is designed like the Vietnam memorial ... it would be a lot longer even using both sides.
There was a lot of opposition to the Vietnam memorial when it was first proposed. "Black wall of shame" it was called and caused the addition of the three soldier statue now facing it.
https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/648/648,1260648720,3/stock-photo-vietnam-memorial-statue-42708958.jpg
How do you build a wall that holds that many names? :o
I'd bet a fair number of them would be unknown.
Skybird
08-19-17, 05:48 AM
Speaking of awesome blogs I thought this was spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ
"The media is simulating a reality."
I liked that.
Catfish
08-19-17, 05:53 AM
We could have plaques on both sides of each monument.
On one side we can have "It's all Obama's fault"
On the other side we can have "It's all Trump's fault"
Everyone is happy. :up:
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:
And good find, August
Skybird
08-19-17, 05:59 AM
Heck, that young lady ^ really has her acts together. I'm impressed.
LINK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3syO-43OboM)
And maybe even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgKc-2rFcRw
:D "Sweetie, can't you just being gay?" LOL
And is this the best?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLHx2HPJPE8
Is free speech dead in my country? Maybe so if this is allowed to continue in the direction it is going.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/23/post-charlottesville-narrative-national-embarrassment/
The general atmosphere of hysteria during the post-Charlottesville fallout has been jaw-dropping. Above are excellent examples. Yet what happened last week in Boston is even more so—a case study in the growing delirium taking ahold of American politics, especially progressive politics.
Activists in Boston organized a free-speech rally to advocate First Amendment rights. It was an event concerned with freedom of expression, nothing more. Indeed, one of the rally’s speakers, Gavin McInnes, affirmed that “The rally on Saturday in Boston couldn’t be farther from the rally [in Charlottesville]…We are socially liberal, fiscal conservatives who think America has a lot to be proud of. . . . We are pro-gay, multicultural, pro-Israel, pro-family and anti-Nazi.”
Another organizer of the rally, Louis Sender, said that the purpose of [the rally is] just to do free speech…That’s all it’s ever been.” The organizers even planned to begin the rally with a moment of silence to Heather Heyer, the victim of Charlottesville’s white nationalist terror attack.
No matter. Boston turned out thousands upon thousands of protesters. Fifteen thousand protesters showed up to rail against the free speech organizers—15,000, in comparison to a few dozen rally attendees. Fearing for their safety, the rally organizers eventually fled Boston Common with a police escort. In a genuinely eerie display of threatening intent, the protesters began to chant: “Make them walk! Make them walk!”
......
More shameful still was the media’s approach to covering the rally. The organizers of the rally explicitly affirmed that it was an event in support of free speech. Yet major media outlets treated this explanation as if it were a smokescreen, couching the term “free speech” in “scare quotes:” CBS News, NPR, the Washington Post, Slate, the Boston Globe, Reuters, CNBC, USA Today, Politico, Yahoo, the Daily Beast, the New York Daily News, countless others—all approached the idea of free speech as if it were an alien concept written in an extraterrestrial language.
Some outlets took it to an even more desperately shameful level: the New York Daily News, for instance, claimed that the protesters “chase[d] away white nationalists” without mentioning the rally organizers and speakers who explicitly disavowed white nationalism, while the Chicago Tribune heavily implied that the rally was a white nationalist gathering, with an enormous headline screaming: “Massive counterprotest against white nationalism upstages ‘free speech rally’ in Boston.” What a disgraceful abuse of media power.
Aktungbby
09-06-17, 11:16 AM
"Good help is hard to find" :03: We'll leave that remark to the current bankrupt(morally and otherwi$e) now infesting the White House!:haha:
I don't know why Trump is so upset about the taking down of the statues of Lee, Beauregard, etc.: didn't Trump say he only liked generals who win?
We could have plaques on both sides of each monument.
On one side we can have "It's all Obama's fault"
On the other side we can have "It's all Trump's fault"
Everyone is happy. :up: https://www.truthdig.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/LuckovichMonumental.jpg
The only thing wrong with that cartoon is, Trump being Trump, he'd be mounted facing the back of the elephant...
...oh, and, removal may occur sooner than 2018...
<O>
Mr Quatro
09-06-17, 03:07 PM
The only thing wrong with that cartoon is, Trump being Trump, he'd be mounted facing the back of the elephant...
...oh, and, removal may occur sooner than 2018...
<O>
There you go again trying to be a prophet ... hate won't make it happen.
Love your enemies, love your neighbors, love the GOP, love late night TV, but don't hate the POTUS. :D :oops: :o
There you go again trying to be a prophet ... hate won't make it happen.
Love your enemies, love your neighbors, love the GOP, love late night TV, but don't hate the POTUS. :D :oops: :o
I don't hate Trump; couldn't care less about him, actually. What I do care about is how very badly this country is being run from the current Oval Office and the current occupant just happens to be Trump, and he happens to be a massive idiot. I'd feel the same way about a very badly run administration regardless of who was in the WH. When Trump is out of the WH, I'll be more than happy to ignore him as in the past and just hope we can right ourselves from the mess(es) he's made...
As for as your Kumbaya neo-hippism (:03::D), those who know me are aware I do not discriminate: I hate everybody, in a gentlemanly curmudgeonly sort of way...
Besides, I'm an 'Merican and I have the freedom to hate who I please...
(Cue unfurling of waving, windblown Stars & Stripes and swelling of patriotic music...)...
<O>
Our very much loved president Koivisto burial. He was loved by all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbFm4JJAyA
Take note of what a great president was.
Take note of what a great president was.
http://i.imgur.com/HFMba1Y.png :)
Onkel Neal
09-13-17, 09:58 PM
Here's your goofball president in his natural habitat
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170913223838-mobapp-schumer-trump-pelosi-split-large-tease.jpg
Platapus
09-14-17, 12:27 PM
Well he used to be a Democrat. Somehow just claiming to be a Republican was enough for some of the Republican voters, I guess.
Onkel Neal
09-14-17, 01:00 PM
A lot of people will believe what they hear when it is what they want to hear.
A long while back, when Trump first announced his run for office, I posted about how the national GOP might find itself in the same situation as the California-GOP. The California glommed onto Arnold Scwarzenegger as a CA Gubernatorial candidate like he was some political life preserver after their having been repeatedly torpedoed by the CA-DEMs. Arnold was a widely known celebrity and seemed to say all the 'right' things the CA-GOP wanted to hear. When he was elected Governor, winning a plurality but not a majority, the CA-GOP rushed to get their agendas passed under the cover of Arnold's charisma. Firstly, Arnold discovered governance and politics takes more than a winning smile and catchy platitudes. Then, at the behest of the CA-GOP, he championed a slew of initiatives and referendums in an attempt by the CA-GOP to get their long-sought pet projects and peeves addressed, the majority of which had been widely unpopular for years, if not decades; the resulting election was one of the most stunning political defeats in CA history and was a firm repudiation of CA-GOP "values". At about that point, Arnold pretty much gave up the facade of Far Right champion and embraced a sort of 'partnership' with the CA-DEMs. The CA-GOP has not yet recovered from the debacle that was the Arnold "The Governator"'s terms in office. Currently, not a single one of the CA statewide elected offices is held by a GOP member; the CA-GOP simply has not been able to field any candidates the CA-GOP endorses. Such is the state of the CA-GOP...
So, now what has the national GOP got? They have, in the Oval Office, a well-known celebrity, who says all the 'right' things and who got elected, not with a majority of the popular vote, but even worse, not even a plurality. The GOP and Trump have tried to ram through their pet projects; first, by EO, but they soon found EOs are not the same as laws and the President's words are not writ; likewise, in Congress, both the GOP-controlled House and Senate are finding little traction in their pursuit of their agenda and have even had to resort to "poison pill" and "nuclear" option in order to get what very little they have been able to achieve squeaking through. Now, Trump, faced with failure on all fronts for his 'agenda', is, like Arnold in CA, trying to make nice in order to salvage what he can and score a win for himself, if not the GOP. And make no mistake, if it comes down to it, Trump is in this only for himself, as he has always been throughout his life and in his dealings; he will not hesitate to sell-out his Trumpettes and the GOP if he feels he can get a win, any win, out of what may be his brief tenure in office...
The Trumpettes and the GOP knew all about the person they backed; all the details about his lying, duplicity, avarice, double-dealing and more were widely put out there by journalists and analysts of all political stripes in the months before the election, but, just to try and get whatever narrow agendas each faction sought passed, they made a deal with the devil and now they are about to get royally burned...
To those who have backed Trump because they think Trump will firmly back their play, get ready to be disappointed; Trump has less spine than a jellyfish and will dump you and your cause if he can see a way to aggrandize himself at your expense. The flip-flops on DACA and the deals with the DEMs on other issues are just the beginning...
<O>
Well he used to be a Democrat. Somehow just claiming to be a Republican was enough for some of the Republican voters, I guess.
Only if you forget how and why he won. There were plenty of establishment Republicans running but Trump was nominated over them because in spite of all his faults and lack of conservative history he had one over riding attribute, he was not one of them.
Then he won the election because for all his faults he was not an establishment politician and just as importantly (perhaps more so) he was not the crooked HRC.
See the pattern here?
I'm beginning to think that anyone who wasn't part of the political establishment could have won the oval office last year.
Platapus
09-15-17, 08:09 AM
A lot of people will believe what they hear when it is what they want to hear.
I once read a paper on "confirmation bias". It was a good paper , but it did not tell me anything I didn't already know. :)
Platapus
09-15-17, 08:13 AM
I'm beginning to think that anyone who wasn't part of the political establishment could have won the oval office last year.
I agree. Hillary's legacy is probably being the only candidate that could lose against a buffoon like Trump.
The Republicans could have put up anyone else and they still would have beaten Hillary.
The Democrats could have put anyone else up and they probably would have beaten Trump.
It was truly a race to the bottom.
In my opinion, the only reason Trump won was because of Hillary.
The Republicans did not win the election, the Democrats lost it.
The Democrats could have put anyone else up and they probably would have beaten Trump.
I'm not so sure about that. I really think that people were looking for an outsider. Someone not part of the Washington political cabal. Had the Dems run another establishment pol like say Schumer or Pelosi I believe they still would have lost.
http://i.imgur.com/HFMba1Y.png :)Indeed, I have no recollection of posting that (I remember watching it). One of my drunken posts, I do apologize, it had no place in here. I cannot say why I posted it here. :doh:
Platapus
09-15-17, 02:23 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I really think that people were looking for an outsider. Someone not part of the Washington political cabal. Had the Dems run another establishment pol like say Schumer or Pelosi I believe they still would have lost.
It would be hard to determine who is more disliked between Hillary and Nancy. Both are liabilities. Yikes, each one is more despised than the other.
I honestly don't understand this "Outsider" mentality. PotUS is not an entry level position. There are very good reasons why I am not CEO of Exon. I don't have the background, experience, nor the connections that would make me effective. The same goes for PotUS.
PotUS is a skilled position and requires special skills, experience, and connections.
If I am not happy with my doctor, should I just grab someone off the street with the idea of "well an outsider might be better"? Of course not.
Would you put a career politician as CEO of a huge international corporation? Of course not. Different experiences and skill sets are needed.
So I truly don't understand any attraction of electing someone with no experience, no education, nor any of the political connections to the office of president.
PotUS IS a political position and needs political education, political experience, and political connections in order to be effective.
I would think that we would have learned that lesson with the past two presidents.
If the problem is that we are electing the wrong politicians to office, then the solution is to start electing the right politicians to office... not to elect uneducated, inexperienced "outsiders" in some random hope that they might do well.
That may work for a mayor, but not the PotUS, in my opinion.
The opinion of the Trumpettes seems to be waning in their support of the Trump:
Trump’s ‘fake news’ attack lost its power this week --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/09/16/trumps-fake-news-attack-lost-its-power-this-week/?utm_term=.7627867243d0
The significance of this week is that Trump can no longer cry “fake news” when the media reports on a broken promise, and count on his boosters to help keep the faith. In a credibility war with the media, Trump's victory is not automatic, even in the eyes of his most ardent admirers.
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/hnHm08LCypRG8xLY4slSYA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTU4O2g9NDIx/http://media.zenfs.com/fr-FR/homerun/huffingtonpost/8ea1551c2eefa5bc0a24e024c81d2071
<O>
Indeed, I have no recollection of posting that (I remember watching it). One of my drunken posts, I do apologize, it had no place in here. I cannot say why I posted it here. :doh:
Nothing to apologize for Dowly. I figured you were just teasing and I was just teasing back.
Well, it seems that Trump-claimed "fake news" Russian interference story just resulted in a very major un-"fake" warrant against Facebook (which is cooperating) regarding Russian-connected FB accounts:
Mueller just obtained a warrant that could change the entire nature of the Russia investigation --
http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-obtains-warrant-for-russia-linked-facebook-ads-and-accounts-2017-9
It looks like that "nothing burger" collusion investigation just got a substantial upgrade to jumbo-size...
<O>
I truly don't understand any attraction of electing someone with no experience, no education, nor any of the political connections to the office of president.
Maybe it's because people feel they can no longer trust the political class who do have the experience and connections.
Mr Quatro
09-17-17, 11:42 AM
Well, it seems that Trump-claimed "fake news" Russian interference story just resulted in a very major un-"fake" warrant against Facebook (which is cooperating) regarding Russian-connected FB accounts:
Mueller just obtained a warrant that could change the entire nature of the Russia investigation --
http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-obtains-warrant-for-russia-linked-facebook-ads-and-accounts-2017-9
It looks like that "nothing burger" collusion investigation just got a substantial upgrade to jumbo-size...
<O>
I don't like Facebook ... maybe we shouldn't trust Facebook. I spend too much time clicking on what my friends say when they don't really have anything to say anyway, plus the vanity of it all with photo's and cover pictures. Sort of like the texting disease ... you've heard about that one, right?
What texting disease? You know the one where you think someone loves you so you text them all the time and they text you back, but in reality your girlfriend could have a half dozen other men on the hook texting ... i luv u too :har:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_XvcVUjDNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xItHZZ3bvhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPGak0MVLE
<O>
I could have posted this in our Strike on North Korea
´Cause it has something to do with NK, but it has more to do with American politics or lack of it.
Earlier today I read something that made me a little happy USA had open a door/phone line to NK/KJU said by the American Minister of Foreign affairs
Then about 30 minutes ago I read on a Swedish news paper, Trump twitting words that goes against what Tillerson
In a series of tweets, Donald Trump seems to threaten Kim Jong-Un and undermine his own foreign minister.
"There is not point in Negotiating with the little rocket man. Save your strength, Rex"
"Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!"
For me it looks like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing or they are working against each other.
It also looks like there are no co-op in the White House.
Markus
Still, on the upside, the liberals are upset, and that's the main thing. :yep:
Mr Quatro
10-01-17, 07:58 PM
I could have posted this in our Strike on North Korea
´Cause it has something to do with NK, but it has more to do with American politics or lack of it.
Earlier today I read something that made me a little happy USA had open a door/phone line to NK/KJU said by the American Minister of Foreign affairs
Then about 30 minutes ago I read on a Swedish news paper, Trump twitting words that goes against what Tillerson
In a series of tweets, Donald Trump seems to threaten Kim Jong-Un and undermine his own foreign minister.
"There is not point in Negotiating with the little rocket man. Save your strength, Rex"
"Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!"
For me it looks like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing or they are working against each other.
It also looks like there are no co-op in the White House.
Markus
Confusing, uh? Sort of like a Lou and Costello movie ... maybe these two are doing a Mutt and Jeff on Rocket Man :yep:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/32/Mutt_%26_Jeff_Vol_1_51.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111224044718
Yet another darling of the Religious Right shows his feet of clay and moral hypocrisy:
GOP congressman repeatedly promoted antiabortion stance a week after reportedly telling mistress to get abortion --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/gop-rep-repeatedly-promoted-pro-life-stance-a-week-after-reportedly-telling-mistress-to-get-abortion/?utm_term=.b65d7b553033
Gonna be hard for him to reconcile his actions with his stance; the idiot put the whole thing in writing...
<O>
You got to be kidding me! The IRS has awarded a multi-million dollar contract to Equifax for fraud protection!!:haha::haha::har:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/equifax-irs-fraud-protection-contract-243419
http://time.com/4968558/equifax-breach-irs-contract/
Platapus
10-04-17, 03:50 PM
Yet another darling of the Religious Right shows his feet of clay and moral hypocrisy:
GOP congressman repeatedly promoted antiabortion stance a week after reportedly telling mistress to get abortion --
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/03/gop-rep-repeatedly-promoted-pro-life-stance-a-week-after-reportedly-telling-mistress-to-get-abortion/?utm_term=.b65d7b553033
Gonna be hard for him to reconcile his actions with his stance; the idiot put the whole thing in writing...
<O>
Yikes that is pretty bad. I just don't understand some people.
More of the entitlement attitude. He is special and the rules only apply to others.
An interesting article from Vanity Fair:
“I Hate Everyone in the White House!”: Trump Seethes as Advisers Fear the President Is “Unraveling” --
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trump-is-unraveling-white-house-advisers/amp?hl=1&noRedirect=1
If it were any other person as President, this would be very hard to believe or consider; unfortunately, the current occupant of the Oval Office and his actions give it all a ring of truth...
<O>
Catfish
10-12-17, 05:06 AM
^ This article is disturbing, to say at least. I have my prejudices and some backed judgements on Trump, but this is unbelievable
It would be truly unbelievable if were anyone else; DT has done enough seriously unhinged actions over the last nine months to give one pause and seriously consider it my be true and, perhaps, much worse; add into the last nine months his record as a private citizen prior to taking office and the perception is strongly reinforced...
<O>
Mr Quatro
10-12-17, 05:55 AM
It would be truly unbelievable if were anyone else; DT has done enough seriously unhinged actions over the last nine months to give one pause and seriously consider it my be true and, perhaps, much worse; add into the last nine months his record as a private citizen prior to taking office and the perception is strongly reinforced...
<O>
Seriously, if you were his doctor ... what would you recommend?
Anyone else have a thought about what would you do if you were Donald Trumps doctor? I bet even August is seeing that something is not right in the White House.
There is a definite pattern here to his threats and his tweets and his trying to do what is right keeps him in more trouble than it would of if he had of kept his mouth shut from the marchers in North Carolina to the NFL to the Rocket Man wars ... Donald Trump just keeps messing up and no one has been able to reel him in.
We can pretty well guess where all of this is going to lead to ... a big let down with VP Mike Pence being the next President by default ... three more years of this Donald Trump will result in shame.
He needs a real friend or a real doctor, that doesn't have anything to gain, to tell him the truth. :yep:
Anyone else have a thought about what would you do if you were Donald Trumps doctor? I bet even August is seeing that something is not right in the White House.
Don't drag me into this Liberal love fest. 99% of the problem that I see is a Washington establishment and it's attack dogs in the press that have been on a mission to destroy the guy ever since the election and it's been one false meme after another so I take any such claims with a whole ocean of salt.
DT sexually assaulted a bunch of women
DT is in league with the Russians to influence the election
DT is about to resign as a result.
DT had Russian hookers pee on a bed that Obama once slept in
DT and FBI director Comey conspired to defeat Hillary Clinton
DT fired the FBI director because he asked for additional resources to probe Russian collusion into the election.
DT paid 1000 Russian trolls to spread disinformation about Clinton
DT said rape is a preexisting condition.
DT colluded with the president of the Philippines over a new Trump Tower in Manila
DT's wife got 100million from the Saudis for her women's entrepreneurs fund which is comparable to to Clintons pay for play Foundation.
DT's pick for the Supreme Court had founded and led a student group called Fascism Forever.
DT is considering a proposal to mobilize 100 thousand NG troops to round up unauthorized immigrants
DT is in a pay to play scheme with the Kuwaitis
DT's AG Jeff Sessions is prosecuting a women for laughing at him during his confirmation hearing.
DT is having truckloads of beer sent to the Capitol so he and the GOP can celebrate the house taking peoples Obama care away.
DT's connections to Russia are being sent Russian money through Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and they are all about to be indicted
DT is being investigated by a New York Grand Jury
DT won't listen to translations from other national leaders
DT is deliberately withholding aid from Puerto Rico
DT is going to fire this guy or that guy
Now tell me why should I believe this latest meme or why I should ever believe anything the liberal media says ever again?
Um, there's an awful lot of true statements about DT contained in that list...
<O>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8OOorte77k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px4a4b0XNck
Republican senator asks Trump if he's 'recanting oath' over war with press --
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republican-senator-asks-trump-recanting-oath-war-press/story?id=50430279
Trump is so dumb he can't even keep his views on subjects straight; after using the office of the President to issue a veiled threat against NBC's right to broadcast, the above posted article published a very different Trump stance when Obama had a contretemps with Fox News over their reporting on Obama's administration:
In the category of "There's always an opposite Trump tweet," the president commended the late disgraced Fox News executive Roger Ailes for not being intimidated by then-President Barack Obama's threats against reporters in a May 2013 tweet.
I commend Roger Ailes for publicly supporting @FoxNews’ employees against the Obama administration's intimidation of its reporters.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 28, 2013
"Sister, daughter, sister, daughter..."...
Trump is the most two faced person ever to sit in the Oval Office, as well as the dumbest...
<O>
Catfish
10-13-17, 05:20 AM
I wonder how far Pruitt is by now, in destroying the EPA.
People caring for the environment are all leftists who want to kill him, before he has managed to throw them all out and rebuild the EPA with yes men, or simply close it. Which is why not even his assistants can get to him without a security control, through alarm-secured doors, past his personal bodyguards.
I get the impression there are only lunatics left at the helm.
"Was sind das für Zeiten, wo
Ein Gespräch über Bäume fast ein Verbrechen ist
Weil es ein Schweigen über so viele Untaten einschließt!"
edit: this just in: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/09/epa-scott-pruitt-abandon-clean-power-plan-obama
Which is why not even his assistants can get to him without a security control, through alarm-secured doors, past his personal bodyguards.
What propaganda piece did you get his from?
Catfish
10-13-17, 07:16 AM
It was all over the news two months ago "When career employees of the Environmental Protection Agency are summoned to a meeting with the agency’s administrator, Scott Pruitt, at agency headquarters, they no longer can count on easy access to the floor where his office is, according to interviews with employees of the federal agency.
Doors to the floor are now frequently locked, and employees have to have an escort to gain entrance. Some employees say they are also told to leave behind their cellphones when they meet with Mr. Pruitt, and are sometimes told not to take notes.
Mr. Pruitt, according to the employees, who requested anonymity out of fear of losing their jobs, often makes important phone calls from other offices rather than use the phone in his office, and he is accompanied, even at E.P.A. headquarters, by armed guards, the first head of the agency to ever request round-the-clock security."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa.html
(those 122 official documents
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/11/us/politics/document-Pruitt-and-Secrecy-Documents.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fpolitics&action=click&contentCollection=politics®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront)
https://qz.com/955875/scott-pruitt-requests-funds-for-247-fleet-of-bodyguards-as-epa-poised-to-cut-health-safety-programs/
https://thinkprogress.org/scott-pruitt-epa-bodyguards-budget-32916d5ab162/
and so on. Maybe not on Breitbart or Fox.
edited: nothing to do with this thread
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL80rpIXUAAlTYG.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4
u crank
10-13-17, 01:55 PM
^So you don't think they're friends?:o
Trump says he 'met with the president of the Virgin Islands'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-says-he-met-with-the-president-of-the-virgin-islands/2017/10/13/7d3d9362-b024-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_video.html
:haha:
There used to be a TV game show called "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader" where adults competed to answer questions from elementary school texts; I somehow believe a 5th grader is much more informed than DT about our country and, perhaps, better qualified to run it; at least a 5th grader would be far more mature in demeanor...
http://images.dailykos.com/images/183602/story_image/trump-napoleon.jpg?1449359567
Just waiting for for DT's Waterloo...
<O>
It was all over the news two months ago "When career employees of the Environmental Protection Agency are summoned to a meeting with the agency’s administrator, Scott Pruitt, at agency headquarters, they no longer can count on easy access to the floor where his office is, according to interviews with employees of the federal agency.
Doors to the floor are now frequently locked, and employees have to have an escort to gain entrance. Some employees say they are also told to leave behind their cellphones when they meet with Mr. Pruitt, and are sometimes told not to take notes.
Mr. Pruitt, according to the employees, who requested anonymity out of fear of losing their jobs, often makes important phone calls from other offices rather than use the phone in his office, and he is accompanied, even at E.P.A. headquarters, by armed guards, the first head of the agency to ever request round-the-clock security."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa.html
(those 122 official documents
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/11/us/politics/document-Pruitt-and-Secrecy-Documents.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fpolitics&action=click&contentCollection=politics®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront)
https://qz.com/955875/scott-pruitt-requests-funds-for-247-fleet-of-bodyguards-as-epa-poised-to-cut-health-safety-programs/
https://thinkprogress.org/scott-pruitt-epa-bodyguards-budget-32916d5ab162/
and so on. Maybe not on Breitbart or Fox.
edited: nothing to do with this thread
I see just another political hit piece based on anonymous sources.
Yeah, like the kind you find on Breitbart, Fox News, etc. ...
<O>
Skybird
10-16-17, 10:59 AM
Take full cover, America, you are about getting "moralised", your social affair from now on is an official German affair.
So far in German only, sorry. But the image says all.
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/hertha-bsc-der-kniefall-ist-nicht-schlimm-aber-belanglos-kommentar-a-1173147.html
http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-1202039-860_poster_16x9-fjlq-1202039.jpg
Official comment by the club's (Hertha BSC) management: "We are the left, we are the right, we are the middle."
Aha. - Quite profound for a Monday's start of the week.
Say goodbye to Germans as the people of thinkers. The poets have died out already longer time ago.
Americans may take comfort from the fact that they are not being lectured by just anybody, but by the unrivalled global experts of moral lecturing. Quality made in Germany.
Bilge_Rat
10-16-17, 02:31 PM
so, been away for a few months, but I see nothing has changed in this thread.
em2nought
10-16-17, 03:49 PM
I agree. Send in 200 bombers with fuel-air bombs. Same results but less fallout.
Doesn't send quite the same loud and clear message to all the other dirtbags out there though does it? :03:
Rockstar
10-17-17, 11:19 AM
http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/butthurt-750.jpg
Fill out that form often? You must since you have it at the ready... :D
<O>
http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/29/main/4/134559.jpg
"Evenin' all, this is the PC Police...yes, your report is important to us, sir...we'll be along shortly."
Onkel Neal
10-18-17, 05:51 AM
so, been away for a few months, but I see nothing has changed in this thread.
At least it hasn't gotten worse :D
Actually been kinder and gentler the last few months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=sbS0COipGKE
I have a question... :03:
Donald is always clapping his hands why? :hmmm:
Yea all right bit of a daft question but he seems to do it a lot more than pass Presidents. :ping: :)
I have a question... :03:
Donald is always clapping his hands why? :hmmm:
Yea all right bit of a daft question but he seems to do it a lot more than pass Presidents. :ping: :)He's high-fiving himself for a job well done.
Mr Quatro
10-18-17, 10:26 AM
so, been away for a few months, but I see nothing has changed in this thread.
Well I have been praying for August to change, but he's more stubborn than God :haha:
He's high-fiving himself for a job well done.
Strikes me a little odd as in most news reports here there is a good chance watching him clapping.
Onkel Neal
10-18-17, 08:01 PM
You need to watch something else.
Subnuts
10-18-17, 08:18 PM
Strikes me a little odd as in most news reports here there is a good chance watching him clapping.
Maybe he thinks clapping his hands will make them bigger. :hmmm:
I have a question... :03:
Donald is always clapping his hands why? :hmmm:
Yea all right bit of a daft question but he seems to do it a lot more than pass Presidents. :ping: :)
This should answer that question. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyn8qK9PvWAhVBxVQKHfttDYkQyCkIKzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwY lPAf8Cecg&usg=AOvVaw1y_y5ARO-OHkQlYXKXbk1e) :D
Yes, very popular with the pre-school set...
...and their maturity level...
<O>
Solace or silence? Not all families of fallen get Trump call --
https://www.yahoo.com/news/solace-silence-not-families-fallen-233730123.html
<O>
You need to watch something else.
Trouble is Neal everything else is rubbish.
Maybe he thinks clapping his hands will make them bigger. :hmmm:
Possible, one radio presenter here keeps pointing out how little his hands are.
Is his hand size and clapping frequency going to be the thing that finally brings Trump down? Or is it just more media crap thrown at the wall to see if something will ever stick to it?
Onkel Neal
10-19-17, 07:53 PM
Trouble is Neal everything else is rubbish.
Possible, one radio presenter here keeps pointing out how little his hands are.
Everything else about Trump? Agreed. But there has to be better things we can do with our next three years. :ping:
Buddahaid
10-19-17, 08:29 PM
Is his hand size and clapping frequency going to be the thing that finally brings Trump down? Or is it just more media crap thrown at the wall to see if something will ever stick to it?
Face it August, Trump is poison and will never get treated any better. Sure, much of what has come down is petty, but he has no clue how to rise above the muck and even helps to pile it up. A failure right out of the box who has no business being in office. I hope we survive it.
GoldenRivet
10-19-17, 09:34 PM
I hope we survive it.
we will, he isnt the emperor no matter how much the left insists that he is
Face it August, Trump is poison and will never get treated any better. Sure, much of what has come down is petty, but he has no clue how to rise above the muck and even helps to pile it up. A failure right out of the box who has no business being in office. I hope we survive it.
You know I didn't vote for the guy, I voted for the pothead Johnson hoping that the Berniebots would unite to take our states 11 electoral votes away from Clinton (didn't work :() but I would have voted for anybody running against that crook, including Trump. Whatever problems we have with him they are nothing to the pure evil that letting the Clintons back into the White House would have caused the nation.
Trump in spite of his personal flaws continues to piss off all the right people. As long as he does that i'm inclined to ignore the the medias latest tempest in a teapot.
Mr Quatro
10-19-17, 11:33 PM
I was so busy watching the Thursday night football game between Oakland and KC (Raiders won 31-30 on the last play)
that I didn't notice that the US Senate actually got something done.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/senate-passes-4-trillion-budget-bill-paving-way-tax-reform-n812471
The Senate on Thursday passed a Republican budget resolution that would pave the way to use a special procedural rule to consider tax reform later this year.
The $4 trillion budget blueprint passed 51-49, with all Democrats and Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky voting against it.
It sets the stage for debate later this year to dramatically overhaul the U.S. tax code, cutting rates for individuals and corporations while clearing away trillions of dollars' worth of deductions and special-interest tax breaks.
What has Trump done in these 10 months anyway? He is in the news every week of having done something, usually judged as doing something wrong?
No health care bill and no new tax relief till next year?
Why is he always looking so silly on stupid stuff from his non charity golf events to men taking a knee in the NFL to calling a widow and talking about her guy?
I can't figure him out ... will it get better or will it get worse?
Platapus
10-20-17, 11:37 AM
I hope we survive it.
I have to believe that our country is stronger than any one person. I have to believe something.
America survives Trump. Just takes time to get all those EPA regs back in and build back the respect of other countries.
America survives Trump. Just takes time to get all those EPA regs back in and build back the respect of other countries.
And people thought Obamas apology tour was something...perhaps the US can use NASA to write "We're really sorry" on the moon? :hmmm:
And people thought Obamas apology tour was somethingSee, I never understood what was so bad that. He showed some humility, so what?
Catfish
10-20-17, 03:01 PM
See, I never understood what was so bad that. He showed some humility, so what?
This.
I did not understand either, until i read the hidden section of a certain US military simulation forum. I still do not understand the mindset, but one thing became clear:
1. Obama is the Antichrist. He is regarded as a denigrator of his country. It has nothing to do with law or ethics, you never criticize your own.
2. The political right and most of the brass does not like to admit errors or admit violating international law, let alone saying sorry for it.
After all all the islamic states who said you could not believe Obama and the US apologizing and calling a spade a spade, were right. It was only a short interval.
Throughout the evening the News here have shown Bush sr and Obama attacking Trump in strong words.
This made me wonder and thinking-I'm going to ask my Americans friends
If Bush sr and Obama was much better ?
Can they point finger at Trump ?
Markus
Is his hand size and clapping frequency going to be the thing that finally brings Trump down? Or is it just more media crap thrown at the wall to see if something will ever stick to it?
If the media were to start mentioning my observation I got my 15 seconds of fame. :03:
If they did you will know they are running out of steam.
Everything else about Trump? Agreed. But there has to be better things we can do with our next three years. :ping:
Yes his latest tweet about our crime figures..
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 20, 2017 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/921323063945453574?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41695667
WHAT! :o
Has his cheese slid off the cracker? :hmmm:
As for the next three years ask jim he pinched my crystal ball. :) :03:
Rockstar
10-20-17, 08:31 PM
And people thought Obamas apology tour was something...perhaps the US can use NASA to write "We're really sorry" on the moon? :hmmm:
Ok to whom shall we send our apologies too? The Kenyans which suffered under British rule or the several hundred defectors sent back to Soviet Russia by Urho Kekkonen?
Maybe we can hold out long enough and people will simply forget.
Ok to whom shall we send our apologies too? The Kenyans which suffered under British rule or the several hundred defectors sent back to soviet Russia by Urho Kekkonen?
Everyone. That's why you should put it on the moon.
Rockstar
10-20-17, 08:36 PM
Nope we've already sent our citizens to the moon. Maybe you could see if China will let you tag along.
See, I never understood what was so bad that. He showed some humility, so what?
He was Obama, that was what was bad about that, and just about everything else he ever said or did.
https://i.redditmedia.com/mMyF0zUyvLdYM4cKVFpjxAxDhWrXyAI2tqUCqHDX2x4.jpg?w= 320&
Nope we've already sent our citizens to the moon. Maybe you could see if China will let you tag along.
Maybe you should put more of your citizens on the moon. A lot more. :yep:
Maybe you should put more of your citizens on the moon. A lot more. :yep:
Yeah but it probably wouldn't be the ones you wanted to go and then where would you be?
Ok to whom shall we send our apologies too? The Kenyans which suffered under British rule or the several hundred defectors sent back to Soviet Russia by Urho Kekkonen?
Good old whataboutism.
PS. Do you have a source for those "several hundred" defectors being turned over to the Soviet Union by UKK?
Yeah but it probably wouldn't be the ones you wanted to go and then where would you be?
Same place I was before but at least we'll have a moon base, or something off this planet for when it all goes tits up.
em2nought
10-21-17, 12:19 AM
Maybe you should put more of your citizens on the moon. A lot more. :yep:
I've always thought the moon would be a perfect place for the Palestinians. They could get along with everyone existing there. :03:
http://www.panarabiaenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/07/yasser-arafat-300x225.jpg
Buddahaid
10-21-17, 01:09 AM
Somehow I doubt that.
Interesting analysis of Trumps's latest swipes at the "dossier":
Week 22: Trump Singes Fingers Trying to Torch Dossier --
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/21/jack-shafer-swamp-diary-trump-russia-dossier
<O>
Onkel Neal
10-25-17, 06:32 AM
MSM finally picking up on Hillary Clinton's dirty dealings
The Clinton camp and DNC funded what became the Trump-Russia dossier (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/25/the-clinton-camp-and-the-dnc-helped-pay-for-that-trump-russia-dossier-heres-what-it-means/?utm_term=.75fc44ed2fd2)
The firm that the Clinton camp and the DNC paid also has alleged ties to the Kremlin. In Senate testimony in July, Hermitage Capital Management chief executive William Browder accused Fusion GPS and its head, Glenn Simpson, of running a smear campaign against Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian whistleblower who in 2009 was tortured and killed in a Russian prison after uncovering a $230 million tax theft. Magnitsky worked for Browder, and he is the namesake of a law containing sanctions that was passed by Congress and is a sore spot between the U.S. government and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Mr Quatro
10-25-17, 01:41 PM
MSM finally picking up on Hillary Clinton's dirty dealings
The Clinton camp and DNC funded what became the Trump-Russia dossier (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/25/the-clinton-camp-and-the-dnc-helped-pay-for-that-trump-russia-dossier-heres-what-it-means/?utm_term=.75fc44ed2fd2)
That's big, but this one is even bigger ... The pendulum swings :yep:: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/obama-era-uranium-deal/index.html
Washington (CNN)House Republicans announced a probe into the circumstances surrounding the sale of a uranium mining company to Russia's Atomic Energy Agency, Rosatom, that was approved by the Obama administration in 2010.
The deal had to be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, a committee that is composed of representatives from several US government agencies, including the State Department, which at the time was led by Secretary Hillary Clinton.
First charges filed in Mueller investigation (http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/27/politics/first-charges-mueller-investigation/index.html)
A federal grand jury in Washington on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.
Lordy.
Platapus
10-28-17, 09:50 AM
What is this? Previews of coming attractions?
Are we truly at the point when we need trailers for legal action?
Why make the announcement on a Friday for action to take place on a Monday? Ratings?
Why make this announcement in the first place? Just do your job quietly and efficiently.
Make the announcement on Monday after the action is taken
I swear, our government is turning into a reality show.
u crank
10-28-17, 11:01 AM
Why make the announcement on a Friday for action to take place on a Monday? Ratings?
Giving someone a chance to get out of town?
:O:
Meanwhile in the White House:
https://media.giphy.com/media/E84LEJ7e0SrYY/giphy.gif
Roger Stone had bit of a melt down on Twitter too. Now his account is suspended. :)
Roger Stone had bit of a melt down on Twitter too. Now his account is suspended. :)
Love it,lol
What is this? Previews of coming attractions?
Are we truly at the point when we need trailers for legal action?
Why make the announcement on a Friday for action to take place on a Monday? Ratings?
Why make this announcement in the first place? Just do your job quietly and efficiently.
Make the announcement on Monday after the action is taken
I swear, our government is turning into a reality show.
A mini primer on Federal Grand Jury sealed indictments (Note: PACER refers to the Public Access to Court Electronic Records system, a sort of 'bulletin board' for the federal courts):
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/28/16564100/mueller-investigation-sealed-indictments-explained
My guess would be the announcement was made for some of the usual reasons:
1) Someone in the press got tipped off about the indictments and when the Special Counsel found out about it, an announcement was made as a preemptive move in order to keep some 'control' of the situation
2) The Special Counsel made the announcement to sort of 'rattle the cages' a bit to see which, if any, of the actors involved as potential targets in the investigations would make possibly self-incriminating moves in response; if anyone makes a sudden reservation for a flight to a non-extradition country, Mueller may have uncovered yet another route of investigation :03:
It is interesting what day of the week and time of day the news was released; ever since the days of Nixon, close of business on Friday has been the optimal time to make announcements or take actions that may be controversial for one reason or another; if you're gonna fire someone or accept someone's resignation, if you're about to fess up some political peccadillo or other, if you want to take an action that may stir up a response you'd rather not deal with immediately, end of day Friday is the best bet; all the government offices are closed for the weekend making getting any official comment extremely difficult and all the major news outlets go to second or third string news staffs, meaning the big gun reporters and commentators won't be available to anchor the coverage; in addition, the weekend gives a whole two days to gauge public reaction to whatever transpired and adjust accordingly for open of business Monday...
Roger Stone's meltdown and Trumps plaintive pleas of "DO SOMETHING!!" might be a fair indicator those involved in the whole mess are not anticipating a resolution favorable to their condition(s)...
<O>
Rockstar
10-29-17, 04:43 PM
Or the investigation is turning out to be an anticlimactic flop. Meaning what everyone expected to find and what was actually uncovered is for the most part too trivial for the media first string to report.
If that's the case I as a citizen would love too know how much was spent in this boondoggle. But that'll probably be swept under the rug on a Friday too. Like they spent millions on a investigation looking into murder and conspiracy which turned up absolutely nothing. Too save face they impeached a sitting President over the definition of the word 'it'
I was thinking about this because it wasn't too long ago the President and Republcans congress always seemed very far apart. But as we drew near the conclusion of this investigation. I noticed they were now publically announcing themselves as team players like they knew it was now OK to associate themselves with POTUS,
Also in my experience shaking trees to see what falls is usually something that's done when you don't have anything to go on.
Bleiente
10-29-17, 04:46 PM
Just set this stupid man (Trump) and his family - so captured because of threats to national security.
Then hopefully the nation will be born again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw
em2nought
10-29-17, 05:17 PM
Keep drinking that european kool aid. lol https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/03/44/170344c022e440abded7164fc00575ec--political-satire-political-cartoons.jpg
Or the investigation is turning out to be an anticlimactic flop. Meaning what everyone expected to find and what was actually uncovered is for the most part too trivial for the media first string to report.
If that's the case I as a citizen would love too know how much was spent in this boondoggle. But that'll probably be swept under the rug on a Friday too.
I was thinking about this because it wasn't too long ago the President and Republcans congress always seemed very far apart. But as we drew near the conclusion of this investigation. I noticed they were now publically announcing themselves as team players like they knew it was now OK to associate themselves with POTUS,
Also in my experience shaking trees to see what falls is usually something that's done when you don't have anything to go on.
If there was nothing to the investigation, I rather doubt a Federal Grand Jury or Federal Judge would sign off on indictment(s) or order the sealing of the charges. What would be gained by bringing up charges that would easily fall apart during legal process(es)? Look at the Clinton impeachment: there was no Grand Jury indictment returned against Clinton, he was indicted by Ken Starr, who had the authority; the fact the Grand Jury did not indict is a strong indicator they did not feel the charges were warranted and/or successfully prosecutable. That Star and the GOP went ahead anyway was a major boondoggle and a real waste of time and taxpayer money; got any complaints about that? At the very least, Mueller, unlike Starr, has apparently presented evidence and a case related to the charges that is enough to cause the Grand Jury to prefer charges against a person or persons; this means the case is already on far firmer footing than the previous case noted...
As far as being trivial, as I noted, the 'Friday ploy' is used to avoid the onslaught of media coverage, for whatever reason, and allow some 'breathing space' for the principals involved; there is also the component of being able to 'control' the dissemination of information and allow some sense of perspective without the circus of media 'talking heads'; if the case was indeed "trivial", what would be gained by delaying the inevitable? The argument is rather illogical...
I wonder where you're getting this impression the GOP mainstream is uniting in any major way with Trump; all I've seen or heard is members of the GOP, in Congress and out, becoming emboldened enough to publicly raise the alarm about the dangers of the Trump administration; I'm not really getting the 'all for one' vibe from the GOP and Trump: far from it...
If you want to gauge the situation by reaction, it should be noted Mueller and his team have been very low key throughout the process and are staying so; however, the frenzied meltdowns by Stone, Trump and the Trumpettes, who have got their collective Pampers in a bunch, and their desperate attempts to deflect and distract by manufacturing controversies that pale in comparison to the seriousness of the Special Counsel's investigations, indicates the desperation is not on Mueller's side: he's got at least one indictment, so far, and its scaring the bejesus out of the Trump and his Trumpettes - their soiled Pampers are mute testimony...
As far as shaking trees, its the best and easiest way to get what you want out of the branches; shaking tree for no gain is, well, illogical, much like Trump stirring up things with his nonsensical, absurd tweets; a sign of desperation on his part, you might say...
<O>
Rockstar
10-29-17, 06:47 PM
All I'm saying is; does anyone know why the investigation was called in the first place? Then lets compare it to Monday's great revelation which when done I'm betting is a trivial non-event. Oh I'm sure it will be something much more to someone because for them it has to be plus for others their ratings depend on it.
Manafort to turn himself in to Mueller, source says (http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/paul-manafort-russia-investigation-surrender/index.html?adkey=bn)
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort is turning himself in Monday to Justice Department special counsel Robert Mueller, according to a source with direct knowledge of the matter.
https://media.giphy.com/media/z3T9UyR6EgnK0/giphy.gif
Charges against Manafort and Rick Gates:
- conspiracy against the United States
- conspiracy to launder money
- unregistered agent of a foreign principal
- false and misleading US Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) statements
- false statements
- seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts
EDIT: Here's the actual document for those interested: https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download
Catfish
10-30-17, 09:08 AM
It has nothing to do with Trump and the White House though..
It has nothing to do with Trump and the White House though..Give it time. :O:
In other news, George Papadopolous (Trump's campaign aide) has pleaded quilty of lying to the FBI about his Russian contacts.
(PDF)
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download
Mr Quatro
10-30-17, 11:02 AM
It has nothing to do with Trump and the White House though..
Yet! :o
Platapus
10-30-17, 05:34 PM
The purpose is to get the small fish to talk about the big fish
When has a smaller crime ever led to a bigger crime in Washington?
They need to get back to investigating real crimes, like hotel burglaries.
em2nought
10-31-17, 01:23 AM
meanwhile :03:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453205/steele-dossier-democrats-collusion-russia
http://www.standupamericaus.org/sua/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TeflonHillary.png
Rockstar
10-31-17, 11:17 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/Tv9z3HIf6h0PK/giphy.gif
https://i.imgur.com/A7y60NA.jpg?1
Rockstar
10-31-17, 02:26 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/BIDRtK21FsrPG/giphy.gif ;)
When it comes to the claims of the Trumpettes, the actual facts so very often manage to derail them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFalijeStUc
On another front, indications are strong George Papadopoulos, former Foreign Policy Adviser to Trump, may have been wearing a wire or aiding in the recording of transactions between himself and other actors in the Trump circle:
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/30/george-papadopoulos-wear-wire-mueller/
George Papadopoulos could very well be a key to getting to the actual responsible parties:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/opinion/george-papadopoulos-manafort-indictment.html
<O>
https://media.giphy.com/media/BIDRtK21FsrPG/giphy.gif ;)
:03:
https://media.giphy.com/media/GCLlQnV7wzKLu/giphy.gif
u crank
10-31-17, 04:31 PM
https://i.imgur.com/FZ2iToL.jpg?1
Rockstar
10-31-17, 05:03 PM
:03:
https://media.giphy.com/media/GCLlQnV7wzKLu/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsUJ44ffpnAW7Dy/giphy.gif :)
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c5c2e24705730dcaa08a58275aea276b99eeef18/c=0-47-3000-2303&r=x393&c=520x390/local/-/media/2017/10/31/USATODAY/USATODAY/636450107949336992-103117jax-robert-mueller-costume.jpg
http://image.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width600/img/darcy/photo/31darcy-trumpkinjpg-49fb7fc66937c199.jpg
<O>
Rockstar
10-31-17, 05:40 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/hjEWUGbZf4Yxy/giphy.gif
You never looked cuter, Rockstar... :haha:
Meanwhile, in the serious world, there may be an indication more is on the way:
Other Cases
The Mueller team has chosen to base its work out of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, impaneling a grand jury there and filing its charges with the court. Manafort and Gates appeared at the courthouse Monday to enter not-guilty pleas, and Papadopoulos pleaded guilty there Oct. 5.
An investigative reporter for USA Today, looking through the court's docket in the wake of the Mueller news, noticed four more sealed cases whose case numbers fall between those involving Papadopoulos and Manafort.
U.S. District Court for D.C. has four sealed cases in its docket with case numbers between Papadopoulos' (182) and Manafort's (201). pic.twitter.com/zDKMY3qHM6
— Steve Reilly (@BySteveReilly) October 30, 2017Moreover, the indictment naming Manafort and Gates is labeled "Indictment (B)" – suggesting to some that there's an "Indictment (A)" yet to be released.
There's no telling what's inside any of those sealed case files – they could be completely unrelated to the Mueller investigation – but the sequence has some speculating they may be part of the probe and that more indictments or guilty pleas will be coming.
Mueller Investigation: What's Known – and What's Not --
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-10-31/mueller-investigation-whats-known-and-whats-not
<O>
Platapus
10-31-17, 06:20 PM
MAGA - Manafort and Gates arrested
or
MAGA More are getting arrested
:D
Mr Quatro
10-31-17, 10:53 PM
One more week will be Trumps first year of winning the race ...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-election-night-2016-gallery-1.2864968
The wildest presidential race in modern history reached an even more shocking end as Donald Trump defeats Hillary Clinton to become the 45th U.S. president.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Uy0Uznw4E
:har:
u crank
11-01-17, 05:37 AM
One more week will be Trumps first year of winning the race ...
Some people plan to commemorate the day by ........
Americans from coast to coast plan to commemorate the one-year anniversary of President Donald Trump’s 2016 election win by screaming into the void.
Thousands of Facebook users have signed up to attend events on Boston Common in Boston and in Washington Square Park in New York on Nov. 8. Events are also planned in Miami, Philadelphia, Dallas, Austin and in Bellingham, Washington.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-election-anniversary-november_us_59eedf28e4b07cf8380c1714
You can't make this stuff up. :D
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/03/f8/73/03f8734ab8199943f1fc3a82dc48c9f8.jpg
<O>
A Fox News analyst known for his defense of Trump and disparaging comments about the Russia interference investigations is now saying the matter is no longer "fake news":
Judge Napolitano on Why He Believes Trump Campaign Adviser 'Wore a Wire' --
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/11/01/judge-napolitano-george-papadopolous-probably-wore-wire-after-arrest-mueller-russia-probe
<O>
Oh, it's very likely that Papadopoulus has been rigged for sound for at least the last month, if not longer. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of that.
Rockstar
11-01-17, 04:40 PM
Oh, it's very likely that Papadopoulus has been rigged for sound for at least the last month, if not longer. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of that.
http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/images/baghdad_bob.png :O:
Trump's spokespersons and his other Trumpettes make that guy look like the most honest man in the world... :haha:
I heard a rumor Diogenes was seen walking by the Trump White House; he stopped, looked at it for a minute, just said "Nah...", and walked on...
<O>
u crank
11-01-17, 05:34 PM
https://i.imgur.com/S27DUiY.gif
Rockstar
11-01-17, 06:31 PM
A Fox News analyst known for his defense of Trump and disparaging comments about the Russia interference investigations is now saying the matter is no longer "fake news":
Judge Napolitano on Why He Believes Trump Campaign Adviser 'Wore a Wire' --
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/11/01/judge-napolitano-george-papadopolous-probably-wore-wire-after-arrest-mueller-russia-probe
<O>
This is the same judge who shortly after the Vegas shooting said: Though some automatic rifles that were manufactured before 1986 can lawfully be purchased today with an onerous federal permit, automatic weapons generally have been unlawful in the United States since 1934. Even the police and the military are not permitted to use them here.
He's a just talking head
Oh, yes, he is a talking head, but during the time he was openly defending Trump, he was one of the sources and 'authorities', along with the likes of Hannity and Alex Jones, Trump either cited or that he co-opted as one of his 'original' thoughts or ideas; Napolitano was a big favorite of Trump...
<O>
Enjoy the EMP attack this weekend, not sure if it's going to happen before or after the massive Antifa uprising and riots, but I dare say that the internet will tell us nearer the time.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2017/10/very-bad-day-on-november-4th-emp-drill-held-same-day-as-antifa-uprising-coincidence-3566975.html
:har:
Rockstar
11-01-17, 09:17 PM
Without internet we'll have to go back to gossiping with our next door neighbors. Oh wait since the internet we forgot how to socialize with one another. Might be awfully quiet in the world for awhile. Maybe I'll go find a book to read.
https://media.giphy.com/media/YUFFYm8appt4c/giphy.gif
Catfish
11-02-17, 08:08 AM
Meanwhile the new EPA chief and anti-scientist and climate-change denier Scott Pruitt has effectively destroyed the scientific advisory boards
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/epa-bans-grant-winning-scientists-advisory-boards-scott-pruitt-environmental-protection-agency-a8030716.html
http://www.iflscience.com/policy/pruitt-destroyed-epas-scientific-advisory-boards/
Go on make America great again :haha:
Pfft.. what has the EPA ever done to them?
Rockstar
11-02-17, 08:26 AM
Meanwhile the new EPA chief and anti-scientist and climate-change denier Scott Pruitt has effectively destroyed the scientific advisory boards
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/epa-bans-grant-winning-scientists-advisory-boards-scott-pruitt-environmental-protection-agency-a8030716.html
http://www.iflscience.com/policy/pruitt-destroyed-epas-scientific-advisory-boards/
Go on make America great again :haha:
Well since the utter destruction of scientists by Pruitt and the rise of evil climate change deniers. What exactly about the climate has changed? What has changed about the consumers mentality which drives big pharma, big oil, big rare earth mining, big plastics, big chemical, big auto, big whatever business to continue producing massive amounts of greenhouse gas planet killing machines so that we the consumer can live in comfort, and play our video games? Or am I really supposed to believe its all Scott Pruitt's fault?
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