US Politics Thread 2016-2020 [Archive] - Page 43

Skybird

09-09-20, 08:36 AM

I think you are overlooking that the Tea Party movement was a reaction to something far more damaging to the society and political culture.
Like our AfD. And both are totally nuts by now. And no, if any of thr two would come - or have come to power,. I would not see that as the lesser evil. These kind of antidots are doing as much damage as what they claim they want to heal. If not more - that will be up to the historians.

Not sure how George W. Bush was such a problem.Remember his ridiculous drive to of from his inauguration? Maybe just cosmetic, but still illustrating. And then later: his war against Iraq based on lies? That was not only cosmetic. It was a conspiracy, and a capital crime against the American nation and the people of it. And beyond.

Is this the way the founding fathers have envisioned things how to do? A rhetorical quesiton, the answer of course must be a loud and sounding "No". And it shows. The system that roots back ont heir ideas and viisons, is incapable to forsee or dealwith or control a devastating phenomenon like Trump. And Trump, as I often said, is nto the cause, he is the latest and most intense symüptom of process that runs since longer, constantly intensifying. And now it all derails.

u crank

09-09-20, 09:01 AM

No. Things have escalated beyond what once - and not too logn ago - ago was unimaginable.

I disagree. What has escalated is the media coverage of the political world. The American media (before Fox News) leaned left but it was not obvious. Not any more. There is a constant vomiting of news stories meant to swing public opinion. The two recent smear jobs by the once respected Atlantic is easy proof of that. The media has become the propaganda arm of the two political parties and it is they who more than any polititian keep this ridiculous rhetoric going. And I fear that you have become one of their victims.

Skybird

09-09-20, 09:40 AM

No. You marginalise the escalation by complaining that too much attention is beign spend on it, and if people would not care, it would not be there. You could as well say: if its not on TV, than it did not happen. But it has happend, independent from people'S attention focus and attention span.

Relativisation, marginalisation - Trump'S propaganda is working with these a very lot, its form the texstbook on the 101 of propaganda. And you copy it...?

Don't.

Skybird

09-09-20, 09:58 AM

They nominated Trump for Nobel Peace Award.

Somebody seems to want seeing him winning in Novembre.

Jimbuna

09-09-20, 10:09 AM

They nominated Trump for Nobel Peace Award.

Somebody seems to want seeing him winning in Novembre.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2694477&postcount=10502

Skybird

09-09-20, 10:14 AM

^ I thought you were kidding! :D

------

Meanwhile: police shoots autistic boy after his mom called them for help.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54041549

Bang! Bang! Bang! Once! A-! Gain!

-----

And:

House Committee launches new investigation into Postmaster General Louis DeJoy

https://www.msnbc.com/ayman-mohyeldin/watch/house-committee-launches-new-investigation-into-postmaster-general-louis-dejoy-91257413924

Stinker. Foul play once again.

Mr Quatro

09-09-20, 10:42 AM

It seems like no matter who the POTUS is there is always disagreements to way he handles any given situation,
even Bush coming back with a victory dance on a USN aircraft carrier. :yep:

Truman (people were actually mad at him for dropping the A-bomb)
Eisenhower (was probably among the best and least criticized)
Kennedy (Cuba didn't like him, the mafia didn't like him, Russia didn't like him and someone shot him)
Johnson (Started a war he couldn't finish)
Nixon (we all know how that turned out)
Ford (do nothing president)
Carter (let us down in Iran)
Regan (got shot for being a good president)
Bush (didn't finish the war that his son had to finish)
Clinton (so why was she on her knees anyway in the library)
Bush (what do you mean they don't have any WMD's)
Obama (still paying for his fence sitting)
Trump (actor, poker player, egomaniac, but gets the job done)

u crank

09-09-20, 11:43 AM

Relativisation, marginalisation - Trump'S propaganda is working with these a very lot, its form the texstbook on the 101 of propaganda. And you copy it...?

It's funny but that is exactly what I am saying about you and the left wing MSM.

Catfish

09-09-20, 01:30 PM

This is exactly why no one understands you :D

Armistead

09-09-20, 02:27 PM

I disagree. What has escalated is the media coverage of the political world. The American media (before Fox News) leaned left but it was not obvious. Not any more. There is a constant vomiting of news stories meant to swing public opinion. The two recent smear jobs by the once respected Atlantic is easy proof of that. The media has become the propaganda arm of the two political parties and it is they who more than any polititian keep this ridiculous rhetoric going. And I fear that you have become one of their victims.

What's true or not, the Dems and Trump's enemies are doing a great job politically of pushing off the ambush before the election, such as things that happened a few years ago come out now right before the election, a mass of people are releasing their anti Trump books, Woodward releasing his stuff...It's got Trump on a big defensive and of course Trump is attacking back with his usual used car sales approach. The Trump team needs to get on it with their ambush, sure they can find some unnamed sources.

u crank

09-09-20, 02:34 PM

This is exactly why no one understands you :D

"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

:rock:

mapuc

09-09-20, 02:57 PM

While I have mentioned I hope Trump would win because...

I also hope he will loose.

I have real fear. that some(one) will do more than only use words in their hatred towards Trump if he wins.

Can't remember which one of you who wrote something with

He must be stopped at any cost

And this is my deepest fear that some(one) with suicide thoughts take action.

If he wins a second term it will not be one attempt but more..

The Media has manage to build up a hatred towards Trump
Yes he may have some guilt himself.

Markus

u crank

09-09-20, 03:05 PM

What's true or not, the Dems and Trump's enemies are doing a great job politically of pushing off the ambush before the election, such as things that happened a few years ago come out now right before the election, a mass of people are releasing their anti Trump books, Woodward releasing his stuff...It's got Trump on a big defensive and of course Trump is attacking back with his usual used car sales approach. The Trump team needs to get on it with their ambush, sure they can find some unnamed sources.

The problem for the left wing MSM is they miss Bush jr and Mitt Romney. When they lied about those guys they just went into the fetal position and cried uncle. Trump, the guy from Queens, bangs on the hood of the car and yells " Hey I'm walking here!!". :O:

Skybird

09-09-20, 03:08 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

How noble!

Skybird

09-09-20, 03:21 PM

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301190941110341632

Those numbers should make it obvious.

This election system is fraudulent and the fraudster is not a party, or a candidate, but the system itself. Plain and simple. It would only be kind of neutral if the electorate college per state would represent exactly the share of the voters of that state compared to the total national population. But that is not the case. And so you have the absurd situation that a candidate can loose the public vote by millions - and still win the presidency.

In more cvilised parts of the world this simpyl is called election fraud. Nothing else. I know the reasoning behind the design, and the excuses and arguments made. I have fully understood it. And I call it BS. I do not buy it, not one bit of it. Its bull.

Elections are majority decisions. If they are not, they make no sense anymore. Each vote must have the same weight. But it does not have the same weight, its weight varies from state to state. That is absurd. If the alternative is not liked, that is that state being of smaller economic influence still havign voters with the wirght of one vote, then there is only one logical consequence: you should not have a state union then and a national government ruling over 50 states. It maybe simply is too big.

This dilemma is one of the main reasons I am so principally against the EU and the idea of a United States of Europe. That would be way over half a billion people, much more than the US population.

----------

German system has its flaws, too, namely the problem with the "Überhangmandat". This leads to the absurd situation that Germany with its 84 million total population has the second biggest parliament on the whole planet. Only the People's Congress in China is bigger. And they have 1400 million total population.

JU_88

09-09-20, 03:30 PM

The mail in voting system in the U.S is completley broken from what I understand / have heard.

Buddahaid

09-09-20, 03:42 PM

Sky, it's not fraudulent, it's that way by design and the reasons explained to you over and over. You not liking it doesn't mean it's fraudulent.

Catfish

09-09-20, 04:10 PM

So it's fraudulent by design? :O:

Reminds me of the middle ages and the Churfuersten, electing the "Kaiser".
The people of "nobility" allowed to vote and deciding the outcome have changed to people with the most money, but apart from that ..

Astonishingly the European laws are in a way similar as in the US, a smaller country like Belgium has the same say and voting power as e.g. France - at least theoretically. All partaking conutries have the same right and own sovereignty.
Of course here it is countries, not counties within one country or nation.
This was introduced so that bigger countries do not automatically rule over smaller ones.

Buddahaid

09-09-20, 04:25 PM

You both keep forgetting the country is a republic.

Skybird

09-09-20, 05:05 PM

Sky, it's not fraudulent, it's that way by design and the reasons explained to you over and over. You not liking it doesn't mean it's fraudulent.
It is. I am not the first saying that. By a huge timespan I am not. The complication with the electorate college is excused with "wanting to balance" states against each other that have different economic weight and power. But it leads to voter'S votes in some states having different weights for the national election outcome, for the presidential election that is. A system that calls for general elections but has voters having votes of different weight, is fraudulent. It is that because it wants to bypass the so-called popular vote, "correct" its outcome. It gives excuses for doing so, and I buy none of those excuses. I never did. Its fraudulent by design, the betrayal of the public vote is wanted. Its not a mishap, its the very intention and point of having it.

Its the same with gerrymandering, which seems to be a very great problem in the US, much bigger than in any other western country where I read of it. Gerrymandering is a rule to commit fraud - and not being called out over it, getting away with it. I cheats the voters.

If I sit in an assembly, lets say the yearly assembly of property owners, and we there have a rule of one owner=one vote, and we must decide something and come to counting the Yes and No and then somebody tells me: oh, you live on the right side of the house, your vote sorry has only 75% counting value, and the people under the roof have 1.5 times the counting value of a single vote, then I would tell them to piss off and would sue them all. And I would win, at every court over here. Becasue a rule of voter's votes being of different weight, is not valid.

Its depressing that one even must explain this. Its the very basis of majority votes. And yes, the majority is that side that should win a majority vote, and the minority looses it. Thats the very purpose of havign a majority vote. The purpose is not to doctor the unwanted results so to turn a defeat into a win and having a minority commanding a majority.

Its an absurd system. Maybe the idea behind it long time ago was noble or idealistic, though i somewhat doubt it, the hunger for power is as old as politics. But the result of this system, the outcome, is absurd. Absurd, absurd, absurd.

vienna

09-09-20, 06:31 PM

"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

:rock:

What are you trying to say...?...

<O>

u crank

09-09-20, 07:22 PM

What are you trying to say...?...

I'm not trying to saying anything ... I'm singing it.

August

09-09-20, 07:40 PM

Its an absurd system.

So absurd that it's outlasted anything your country has been able to achieve by centuries. :salute:

Buddahaid

09-09-20, 09:57 PM

Its depressing that one even must explain this. Its the very basis of majority votes. And yes, the majority is that side that should win a majority vote, and the minority looses it. Thats the very purpose of havign a majority vote. The purpose is not to doctor the unwanted results so to turn a defeat into a win and having a minority commanding a majority.

You also forget it is a large country and what's good for SF isn't always good for the people in Topeka. The individual states can address their local political climate, and act accordingly, but the whole as a nation needs to reflect the whole, not just the fat guy on the other side of the teeter totter. The system works despite it's flaws.

Think of it like this. You don't like loud music, and your neighbors don't either, but the city votes to have loud music played outdoors all day long so you can't enjoy being outdoors because there is loud music always being played. I guess that's just too bad for you because the majority of the people in the city do like loud music and insist it gets played everywhere.

skidman

09-10-20, 01:42 AM

If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke.

Skybird

09-10-20, 03:49 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54096520

Who would have thought that!

Skybird

09-10-20, 03:59 AM

A system wehre even Trump's own peopple readily admit behind closed mikes that they all expect to loose the public vote, and nobody cares too much becasue they all only worry about whether the gap in that defeat will become so great that the election college will not win it for them, has an inherent problem by design.

Again to take notes, Nate Silver:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301190941110341632

Chance of a Biden Electoral college win if he wins the popular vote by X points:

0-1 points: just 6%!

1-2 points: 22%

2-3 points: 46%

3-4 points: 74%

4-5 points: 89%

5-6points:98%

6-7points: 99%

This is the reason why Republicans try to make it harder to vote: to keep the defeat small enough that they nevertheless could claim victory. The smaller the turn-out, the better for them, due to different voter demographics and social situation. Many Democrat voters cannot easily reach a polling station. Thats as if letting them vote - and throw their ballots away. Elections, Belarus style.

Gerald

09-10-20, 04:00 AM

So absurd that it's outlasted anything your country has been able to achieve by centuries. :salute:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svki4Rp9tlU

Skybird

09-10-20, 04:19 AM

.

https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/09/living-statue-shows-trump-riding-golf-buggy-over-headstones-of-coronavirus-and-dead-soldiers.html

https://i1.wp.com/www.fr24news.com/a2/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/32933954-8711335-A_living_statue_of_Donald_Trump_has_been_unveiled_ in_New_York_Ci-a-8_1599601280979.jpg?fit=962%2C640&ssl=1

u crank

09-10-20, 05:50 AM

If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke.

And if you live in California ....:hmmm:

You do realize that the voting all takes place at the same time and on the same ballot. As well as voting for the President you are also voting for your Congress man/woman, possibly your a Senator, possibly your Govenor, State Represenative, State Senator and numerous local officials. You may also be voting on some ballot initiatives and referendums in certain states. This is why many people in states like Texas and California still register and vote. It is not just about the President.

Catfish

09-10-20, 08:02 AM

Exclusive:
Russian state hackers suspected in targeting Biden campaign firm – sources

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber-biden-exclusive/exclusive-russian-state-hackers-suspected-in-targeting-biden-campaign-firm-sources-idUSKBN2610I4

August

09-10-20, 08:12 AM

https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/stg040119_color.jpg

MaDef

09-10-20, 08:22 AM

If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke. Well then, you could move to California or Oregon with overwhelming DNC majority, Then your vote would count.

FYI: by not voting you are doing yourself and your government a disservice.
The election isn't just about the President, there are State, County, and City issues also on the ballot (and your vote does count on those issues). Anything from which Judges sit on the bench to what proposed laws/legislation is proposed/enacted, taxes, the list goes on. Plus there are the ballots for Gov, state legislatures, county officials, city officials, etc.

The way I see it, if you DON'T vote, you have essentially surrendered your right to complain about the results. And if you CAN"T vote (because you aren't a citizen), then you need to be a bit more respectful when voicing your opinion, or criticizing our government, this is our country not yours.

skidman

09-10-20, 09:00 AM

You do realize that the voting all takes place at the same time and on the same ballot. As well as voting for the President you are also voting for your Congress man/woman, possibly your a Senator, possibly your Govenor, State Represenative, State Senator and numerous local officials. You may also be voting on some ballot initiatives and referendums in certain states. This is why many people in states like Texas and California still register and vote. It is not just about the President.

Good point. I missed that.

skidman

09-10-20, 09:02 AM

https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/stg040119_color.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/coyvkddbjhfht0w/Ugg.png?raw=1

Mr Quatro

09-10-20, 10:16 AM

Notice he is standing next to his mail box :up:

https://scontent.ffar2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/119003654_1111061705955385_9178677080778186472_o.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=Fd5Gh8DmT9MAX_dWIgo&_nc_ht=scontent.ffar2-1.fna&tp=7&oh=c2054d16bb8f709dc23392bb02caa185&oe=5F813C31

vienna

09-10-20, 11:30 AM

https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/stg040119_color.jpg

Don't think the GOP is willing to go there considering their guy is on tape talking about "grabbing them by the -----" and has a track record of grossly untoward and unwanted advances towards women and a further history of making lewd leering comments about underage girls...

...and that's not to mention his friendship and partying with child rapist Jeffrey Epstein and wishing child trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell a hearty "I wish her well"...

...and then there's the accusations of rape, one of which has resulted in a libel/slander suit over Trump's comments on the case, which has so rattled Trump he is desperately seeking to have the DOJ defend him, at taxpayer expense, over a matter he should be handling at his own cost and responsibility...

Glass houses...

<O>

AVGWarhawk

09-10-20, 12:03 PM

https://www.dropbox.com/s/coyvkddbjhfht0w/Ugg.png?raw=1

What is ugly is Biden's "hands on" approach is greatly ignored. The accusations of Biden touching women inappropriately was carpet swept within a day. His running mate said she "believed the women" yet she accepted the position as VP running mate. Self-serving much? Biden is not entirely "with it".

AVGWarhawk

09-10-20, 12:07 PM

Don't think the GOP is willing to go there considering their guy is on tape talking about "grabbing them by the -----" and has a track record of grossly untoward and unwanted advances towards women and a further history of making lewd leering comments about underage girls...

...and that's not to mention his friendship and partying with child rapist Jeffrey Epstein and wishing child trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell a hearty "I wish her well"...

...and then there's the accusations of rape, one of which has resulted in a libel/slander suit over Trump's comments on the case, which has so rattled Trump he is desperately seeking to have the DOJ defend him, at taxpayer expense, over a matter he should be handling at his own cost and responsibility...

Glass houses...

<O>

I concur on Trumps handling of women. However, it was drilled into us for months on end. Biden's inappropriate touching of women and kids has been carpet swept in a day. Even his running mate said she believed the women. Yet here they are self-serving themselves. If Harris had any respect for herself and women she would have said no to Joe and the VP position.

August

09-10-20, 12:30 PM

I concur on Trumps handling of women.
However, it was drilled into us for months on end. Biden's inappropriate touching of women and kids has been carpet swept in a day. Even his running mate said she believed the women. Yet here they are self-serving themselves. If Harris had any respect for herself and women she would have said no to Joe and the VP position.

Trump made one statement that was made off the cuff in private about how some women will eagerly allow personal intrusions from powerful men. It was not a statement of what he would do personally or that he believes most women would be like that. Biden on the other hand has repeatedly groped numerous women and children on camera for years.

https://i.imgur.com/LdTuxak.jpg

Onkel Neal

09-10-20, 12:49 PM

If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke.

Well, I'm sure when Texas flips and it's winner-take-all that aligns with your vote you'll be really ok with it. ;)

Bad news for Biden....
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/10/trump-gop-voter-registration-pennsylvania-411232

President Donald Trump has trailed Joe Biden in virtually every poll in Pennsylvania this year.

But there’s a more tangible piece of data in the state that tells a different story: Since 2016, Republicans have netted nearly seven times as many registered voters here than Democrats.

Also, did I read that Kamala Harris went on a sympathy visit with the guy charged with sexual assault? Her "first solo trip as a VP candidate"?

"In a moving moment, Jacob Jr. told Sen. Harris that he was proud of her, and the senator told Jacob she was also proud of him and how he is working through his pain," he said.

Seriously, that party is screwed up.

skidman

09-10-20, 04:30 PM

Well, I'm sure when Texas flips and it's winner-take-all that aligns with your vote you'll be really ok with it. ;)

No Neal, the same applies to CA. Me thinks winner-takes-all is inappropriate, no matter if it's a red or blue state. I can understand that the electoral system was set up to somehow compensate for divergent interests of the coastal densely populated areas and the rural states, still the composition of the electoral college should somehow reflect the ratio of red and blue votes. Anything else is, hm, a joke.

JU_88

09-10-20, 07:03 PM

Im just hearing rumours of a 36 year old man possibly a Antifa?BLM? Activist? has been caught for deliberatly trying to start a wildfire, not verified yet though...
we'll see.
treading carefully with this one. Predictable enough that many right wingers will want/expect it to be true, and many Left wingers will call it fake news or a setup.
need facts before arriving at either.

But at the very least, it sounds like a suspected arsonist has been caught. will post a link if i find anything worth while on it.

Buddahaid

09-10-20, 07:33 PM

I don't care what the left or right propaganda machines will make of it because most of that will be bull guano anyway. The person will be an arsonist and the way things stand I'd be happy to call it domestic terrorism and throw the key away.

JU_88

09-11-20, 01:48 AM

Catfish

09-11-20, 02:02 AM

Skybird

09-11-20, 05:40 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/9-11-anniversary-highlights-trump-s-failures-america-faces-new-ncna1239795

An opinion piece I can link up with even if not having been a fan of Bush jr myself.

JU_88

09-11-20, 06:15 AM

I gotta admit Sky, I have no idea what your current politcal stance (in general) is really.

Jimbuna

09-11-20, 06:17 AM

Skybird

09-11-20, 06:53 AM

I gotta admit Sky, I have no idea what your current politcal stance (in general) is really.
Give up binary thinking and then you can see.

As I explained some weeks earlier, the "winner-takes-it-all" mentality forms a craving for competition as a way of living that becomes itself somewhat revolving around competing for the mere purpose and the mere meaning of life, leading to fighting against somebody else for the purpose of taking it all and taking everythingaway fom the other. The act of fighting becomes the focus of it all, not the thing that is being fought for. And this now has led the US society to a situation where it all goes beyond proportion and us foreigners ask ourselves whether the Americans really ever intend to stand united again, and if they ever intend to think again of this old motto "E pluribus unum". The poltical rifts are as wide as the San Andreas trench now, and they continue ion civil society, even inside families apparently.

If one is too deeply dug in in this extremism and polarization haunting the US now, then yes, I can imagine that then it is diffiult to understand where I politically stand. Because I reject both to chose between just 0 and 1. In other words, maybe I am too subtle, multi-layered.

Give up binary thinking. Consider me a libertarian, an undogmatic Buddhist and pragmatic Taoist, a traditional European humanist and an economic and fiscal Austrian. Add a bit of Klingon directness and aggressiveness, and a honorable mentioning of my love for squirrels, pizza and being lazy. All that together covers much of what "I" stand for in thinking: on politics, and other things. I believe in a lack of laziness leading to burnout, and that people with too many ambitions set the world ablaze, before burning out themselves, too.

Hawk66

09-11-20, 07:58 AM

Regarding the political system in the US it is rather puzzling how conservative (some?) citizens are there when you compare it with other topics being economic or technology.

The whole election system and some parts of the political system needs to be redesigned - from that everybody who may vote gets an automatic approval and invitation for the voting (as it is in many other democratic countries) to the electoral college to a reform of the same.

A federal government has to have the majority of its votes be it absolute or relative. All other systems distort the will of the citizen and lead to the weird reality of (a couple of) Swing states. If there is the need that states or regions have to have more weight on the Federal Government then for instance that can be incorporated that the representatives of those states can also elect the president/government - to a certain degree (e.g. 3:1). This is transparent then, decoupled and the purpose clear and fair to everybody.

In the end, those who do not want to redesign the system to be fair to everybody regardless living in a rural village in Texas or be a black in one of the "democratic" cities like Boston - they simply do not want to have a fair system since the current one benefits them or their political views. The voting by mail circus triggered by Trump is one example - take 1/10 of the truth and make the rest of the story by adding 9/10 conspiration theories

If you want to have a fair system, let it redesign by scientists, politicians and citizens and give the citizens the choice to select between several concepts, which are considered to be fair by scientists. It would be the best exercise and test that your country gets united again...needless to say that this is true for many democratic countries...

Of crs we have an issue here: As long there is a major political movement, which considers science -at least in parts- as fake news, this will never happen.

u crank

09-11-20, 09:36 AM

In the end, those who do not want to redesign the system to be fair to everybody regardless living in a rural village in Texas or be a black in one of the "democratic" cities like Boston - they simply do not want to have a fair system since the current one benefits them or their political views.

It is funny that you should say that. In 2008 and 2012 Barack Obama won overwhelming Electoral college and popular vote victories. Was the system not fair then? Were Republican voters surpressed? Did the system change overnight some time in 2016? Of course not. The system is only unfair when Democrats lose. They are quite happy with the system when they win.

I have no doubt that if Obama was running in 2020 with the same campaign as he had in 2008 he would bury Trump. Flawed candidates can lose to a only slightly less flawed candidate with startling regularity. Democrats may find that out with Joe Biden.

Skybird

09-11-20, 09:47 AM

Of course on a "meta level" there are basic problems that cannot be bypassed by any system, and these problems are about system size. Because ideally it would be necessary that every member of a community can see what consequences of everyone else's (politically and economically interesting) doing has on himself, and what consequences his own political economical deeds have for everbyod else. Only that way you can have true transparency, but it unavoidably implies very small community sizes then, both geographically and economically, and also socially (population sizes). You need to make sure that those fullfilling public office duties never are allowed by the community to exclude themsleves from the consequences of decisions they make and want to impose on the community. And even under these circumstances, you still face probkems that derive fromt he mere fact that yiou have formed supra.family communties at all. The so-called "tragedy of the commons" as an exmaple.

A good deal of issues we have with our political systems, ALL of them, comes from that we simply form way too oversized communities and state structures. The bigger the system/institution/community, the more opportunities it offers to the corrupt, the abuser, the fraudster to hide in it and to redesign it to serve their own interests before the population'S interest: the core problem with practically every political party there is: that it puts its own power interests before the interests of the people. The rules and the structure of the community gets silenty chnaged to prpotect not the community form the single abuser, but to prtect the abuser in power from the community.

In the end, this is just another face of the sigh of frustration that I have voiced so often by now:

WE ARE TOO MANY.

Its all way too big, too many, too much.

JU_88

09-11-20, 10:29 AM

Give up binary thinking and then you can see..

I have done just that, well to the best of my ability, i have no solid partisian allegences of my own at least.

I was just more curious as where you considered your self these days (roughly speaking) and if you had to summarise.
Not trying to force you in to binary box. I understand there is quite a spectrum out there - And that right/left Authoritarian/libertarian scale is still a crude simplification at best.

But thanks for claryifying with the explaination you provided. I agree scaling things across such a large global population is... not workable in may ways.

:Kaleun_Salute:

mapuc

09-11-20, 12:13 PM

I gotta admit Sky, I have no idea what your current politcal stance (in general) is really.

Maybe he's about to change...a week before the election...you will see he has become a real Trump fan...:D

Markus

Onkel Neal

09-11-20, 06:21 PM

It's all coming up Trump!

Trump nominated for second Nobel Peace Prize following Serbia-Kosovo deal
https://nypost.com/2020/09/11/donald-trump-nominated-for-second-nobel-peace-prize/

Skybird

09-11-20, 07:47 PM

MaDef

09-11-20, 08:29 PM

I must teeth-grindingly admit that with the two treaties between Israel and the UAE and Bahrein he has scored big. To what degree it was him and to what degree it was senior diplomats, is something else.
Well, if you're going to castigate his every mistake (both real & imagined), then by rights you need to commend his accomplishments.

If you hold your nose, you can do it.

Buddahaid

09-11-20, 08:49 PM

"His"? Is Trump now a god?

I'm sure He thinks so but.....

Grumpy Pete

09-11-20, 09:29 PM

Well, if you're going to castigate His every mistake (both real & imagined), then by rights you need to commend His accomplishments.

If you hold your nose, you can do it.

True. And quite honestly, just about every administration has tried (and failed) to broker a Middle East peace plan since ~1948. What Trump has accomplished in this area in one term is quite impressive indeed. Whether it was done by senior diplomats or is something Trump had a hands on approach to doesn't matter. It is happening on his watch.

Seriously, if it was anyone else besides Trump that was putting his signature on this plan, even the Democrats would be recommending the Nobel Peace Prize...

August

09-11-20, 09:55 PM

"His"? Is Trump now a god?

I'm sure He thinks so but.....

Oh Jeez is that a thing now? Woops I may have accidentally deified a whole bunch of people over the years. :hmmm:

Buddahaid

09-11-20, 10:04 PM

Oh Jeez is that a thing now? Woops I may have accidentally deified a whole bunch of people over the years. :hmmm:

I couldn't let that pass....:arrgh!:

Hawk66

09-12-20, 01:38 AM

It is funny that you should say that. In 2008 and 2012 Barack Obama won overwhelming Electoral college and popular vote victories. Was the system not fair then? Were Republican voters surpressed? Did the system change overnight some time in 2016? Of course not. The system is only unfair when Democrats lose. They are quite happy with the system when they win.

I have no doubt that if Obama was running in 2020 with the same campaign as he had in 2008 he would bury Trump. Flawed candidates can lose to a only slightly less flawed candidate with startling regularity. Democrats may find that out with Joe Biden.

I just refer to the election of 2000 and 2016. Especially the election of 2000 was so close (even in terms of the current system), that even only very minor design issues in the system (and my claim is there are major ones) might have elected the "wrong" president.

Your argument is a little weird, to be honest. So democrats (by the way I am not a fanboy of the democrats at all) need to win more votes in the current system/political landscape than Republicans (to achieve the same result) and such a system is considered to be fair. And that democrats at all can win significantly is a sign that the voting is fair enough.

But yeah just some remarks from a foreigner ;)...you guys have to choose your system but sometimes it helps to have a bird view on things ;)

Skybird

09-12-20, 03:31 AM

I dont go back as far as 1948 as someone implied, but Carter. Relations established with Bahrein and UAE is the biggest acchievement since the treaties with Egypt, and Jordan,
with which Israel negotiated in battles.

Also, Carter finished the more difficult job. Egypt had existentially threatened Israel, both nations suffered hugh losses, and Israeli troops stood deep inside Egypt on the Sinai. The war actually were three wars. The acting politicians were witnesses of the founding era of Israel, bitter memories lived freshly in the minds of many people. To reach a normalization of ties under those precondtions was much more diffult than it is today, so much time later between Israel and two "dwarf" states that enver played such a big role in those wars at all, and who are with Israel united by share dinterests directed against Iran and after decades of demonstration that Israel did not pose a threat to the authoritarian regimes in the region. So, Carter really finished the much tougher job of the two, against much heavier resistances

Iran cannot like this.

So lets leave it in perspective. Trump scored two solid points there. Not less, but then, also not more.

u crank

09-12-20, 05:29 AM

So democrats (by the way I am not a fanboy of the democrats at all) need to win more votes in the current system/political landscape than Republicans (to achieve the same result) and such a system is considered to be fair.

I don't understand. You will have to explain that one. Who ever gets to 270 or more wins. Why do Democrats need more?

The point I was trying to make is that winning or losing has far more to do with the candidates than the system. Obama's wins in 2008 and 2012 were impressive. In 2012 he beat a fairly good Republican candidate Romney 332 to 206. Four years later, Hillary Clinton couldn't beat a reality TV star with no political experience. Clinton was a flawed candidate with a long history of corruption and a very unlikable personality. The DNC should have known better. And did they learn anything? Apparently not.

But yeah just some remarks from a foreigner ;)...you guys have to choose your system but sometimes it helps to have a bird view on things ;)

I'm a foreigner as well. Canadian born and bred. I am also an unabashed American political junkie. Such entertainment and it's free.:D

MaDef

09-12-20, 08:22 AM

"His"? Is Trump now a god?

I'm sure He thinks so but.....

No, I did it for emphasis, but since it bothers you so much I corrected it, "His" is now "his". :03:

Mr Quatro

09-12-20, 11:52 AM

The DNC should have known better

Another four years down the drain as far as I can tell :yep:

Buddahaid

09-12-20, 12:34 PM

No, I did it for emphasis, but since it bothers you so much I corrected it, "His" is now "his". :03:

You should have made it HIS in that "case" so it wouldn't be construed as deification. Anyway it didn't bother me.

Catfish

09-12-20, 12:52 PM

https://i.imgur.com/6PXhPull.jpg

Hawk66

09-12-20, 12:54 PM

I don't understand. You will have to explain that one. Who ever gets to 270 or more wins. Why do Democrats need more?

I was referring to the popular vote. That Clinton was not a strong candidate - to say it that way I agree of crs. But nevertheless she won by more than 3-4 million votes. If Trump had to get the (relative) majority of the votes, his chances for a reelection might be a couple of percents...
I am not a sociologist....but all things are connected...if such things happen multiple times, it could (probably it has) even have a side effect that potential democratic voters - who are not especially politically interested for various reasons - won't vote next time or some of the younger generation at all ("Our vote does not matter anyways, the system is cheating").

You could argue that Obama managed to rally especially the younger generation behind him, which is true. My point is not that the Democrats won't have more chances by nominating a better candidate, my point is that it looks like if (concerning the current distribution of the citizens/states in the US and their political alignment) you would have similar "strong" candidates, the Republican candidate has a significantly greater chance to win.
The example for this is the election 2016. Two similar weak candidates (in their ways)...

I'm a foreigner as well. Canadian born and bred. I am also an unabashed American political junkie. Such entertainment and it's free.:

Oh :). I cannot argue here ;).

August

09-12-20, 02:29 PM

I'd hate to have a system where the populations of just a few states rule over the rest. This is the United STATES of America, not the United Peoples. If socialists want to change that then the states should be given a chance to opt out of such a game changing arraignment.

Catfish

09-12-20, 02:46 PM

u crank

09-12-20, 03:03 PM

If - by pure number of "inhabitants" - a bigger state in the US has less say in elections (=less presidential electors), by which definition or by which law does it have less presidential electors than a smaller state? Economical strength? Tradition?

I mean what is the key to how many presidential electors a state has?
Does this change, or is the number fixed?
Who decides or decided (centuries ago?) how many?

The number of each state's electors is equal to the sum of the state's membership in the Senate and House of Representatives; currently there are 100 senators and 435 representatives.

Each state has two Senators and the number of Representatives is decided by population.

Catfish

09-12-20, 03:18 PM

u crank

09-12-20, 03:26 PM

Then i do no understand it - when the amount/number of population of each state is being represented in the number of senators and representatives, how can a smaller state then ever outrule a bigger one?

If not, who decides or decided this numbers of senators and representatives per state, and by which aspects? :hmmm:

The number of Senators remains the same, two per state regardless of size. The number of representatives can change if the population changes. That is decided when a census is taken. The problem that some people have is with the Senate. But that is another issue.

Catfish

09-12-20, 04:29 PM

So it is like with the EU, any nation (or state in the US) regardless of population or economic value has the same say/vote ?

edit: so senator numbers are equal, but not "representatives"?
But the senators count regarding presidential elections, not the representatives?

u crank

09-12-20, 04:56 PM

So it is like with the EU, any nation (or state in the US) regardless of population or economic value has the same say/vote ?

No. The Electoral College consists of 538 electors. They are distributed by population which is how the number of Representatives is decided. The number of Electors per state is the same as the number of Representatives plus two for the two Senators. So they all count but of course some states have very large populations and some don’t. The problem that those who oppose this arrangment is the winner take all result. Which ever party wins the most House seats in a state gets all of the Electoral votes.

In forty-eight states and D.C., the winner of the plurality of the statewide vote receives all of that state's electors; in Maine and Nebraska, two electors are assigned in this manner and the remaining electors are allocated based on the plurality of votes in each congressional district.

vienna

09-13-20, 12:25 AM

It's all coming up Trump!

Trump nominated for second Nobel Peace Prize following Serbia-Kosovo deal
https://nypost.com/2020/09/11/donald-trump-nominated-for-second-nobel-peace-prize/

I must teeth-grindingly admit that with the two treaties between Israel and the UAE and Bahrein he has scored big. To what degree it was him and to what degree it was senior diplomats, is something else.

True. And quite honestly, just about every administration has tried (and failed) to broker a Middle East peace plan since ~1948. What Trump has accomplished in this area in one term is quite impressive indeed. Whether it was done by senior diplomats or is something Trump had a hands on approach to doesn't matter. It is happening on his watch.

Seriously, if it was anyone else besides Trump that was putting his signature on this plan, even the Democrats would be recommending the Nobel Peace Prize...

Trump's (or maybe better said, Jared's) Mideast peace process may have resulted in a seeming detente of sorts, but it is still far and away from a comprehensive or even enforceable pair "peace accords"; as pointed out before, the known sponsorship of anti-Israeli and anti-American (along with several other "anti-" you-name the government/religion, etc., jihads) by wealthy, politically-connected and, in some cases where a monarchy exists, direct family members of Arab nations, including the UAE and Bahrain, makes any superficial 'peace accords' a farce; the true sincerity of the Arab leadership in such accords will only be verified when they actively and decisively bring to account those who directly sponsor/support terrorism against non-Arab targets; the '"accords' may buy some time and give the Arab states a powder-puff dusting of respectability and may attempt to burnish a severely domestically damaged US government, but it is just no better than a shadow show of Potemkinish PR...

As far as the assertion that:

And quite honestly, just about every administration has tried (and failed) to broker a Middle East peace plan since ~1948.

...well, as with other grandiose claims made by Trump and/or his Trumpettes, history and facts say otherwise":

1978 Camp David Accords (under Carter) which led to...

1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (under Carter)

1994 Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty (under Clinton)

... and this is not to mention other inter-State accords such as the 2003 Geneva Accord that is still in force today, although the participants are still in an uphill slog owing to the effort of states such as UAE, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. and their citizens to undermine peace efforts regarding Israel...

When the citizens of the US and Israel no longer have to live under a sort of 'siege' by Arab state and citizen sponsored terrorism, then I would be willing to say progress has been made; as of now, the Trump "accomplishments" in the Mideast are scarcely worth the ink used to sign them and have as little credence or verity as Trump himself...

...although I'll bet Trump and Jerod got a hell of a real estate deal out of the Arabs...and maybe a bit of under the table campaign/personal bailout funding, to boot...

<O>

vienna

09-13-20, 12:56 AM

In the continuing race to see just how hypocritical and nonsensically idiotic the GOP can get, Lindsey Graham submits his own bid for the crown:

Lindsey Graham Bashed For Trump Hypocrisy As He Mocks Rival For Not Baring Tax Returns --

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-trump-tax-returns-twitter_n_5f5d551ec5b67602f6060fae

Boy, I bet Graham gets an earful from Massa Trump when he reports back to the White House plantation about how he just threw Capt. Bonespurs under the wheels of the bus... :haha:

Meanwhile, another Trump minion springs up to give the GOP another headache:

Roger Stone to Donald Trump: bring in martial law if you lose election --

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/13/roger-stone-to-donald-trump-bring-in-martial-law-if-you-lose-election

Stone, by the way, made local LA headlines, which later broke nationally, when he gave his first interview after his commutation of his sentence on criminal charges by Trump; he appeared as a phone line guest on a local radio talk show hosted by an African-American, Mo Kelly; I listen to Kelly's show since he is an Independent, proudly so, and gives it to both the left and right, Dem and GOP, and is extremely fair and evenhanded in his approach; Kelly uses logic and common sense to puncture anyone's balloon who tries to float unsubstantiated rhetoric as fact; Stone appeared on Kelly's show willingly and with full consent and agreed prior to the airing that all subjects were open; after some standard questions, Kelly asked Stone if Stone believed he would have gotten preferential treatment of his case, via a commutation from Trump, if Stone had not been an ally and longtime associate of Trump; there was a bit of silence an then the sound of Stone turning away from his phone, whereupon he is heard telling someone in Stone's room "“I don’t feel like arguing with this negro." Stone apparently thought the comment did not go out over the air, which it did (I actually heard it live while I was shopping and I was stunned Stone could be so stupid); Kelly, who distinctly heard the comment, called out Stone on his use of the term 'negro' and Stone, realizing he was heard made a fumbled denial of saying the word; I've got to give Kelly credit; he kept his cool and, other than pointing out Stone was recorded saying what he said, continued on with the interview, which was curtailed due to 'something came up' for Stone...

Roger Stone Uses Racial Slur During Live Interview on ‘The Mo’Kelly Show’ --

https://variety.com/2020/politics/news/roger-stone-racial-slur-mokelly-show-1234710588/

It is said you can tell the quality of a person by the company they keep; Stone and Trump speak volumes about each other and about those who consider them to be 'decent' persons...

<O>

Onkel Neal

09-13-20, 05:48 PM

Trump's (or maybe better said, Jared's) Mideast peace process may have resulted in a seeming detente of sorts, but it is still far and away from a comprehensive or even enforceable pair "peace accords";......

Doesn't matter at all , it's definitely progress and should be applauded by all.

vienna

09-14-20, 06:37 AM

Doesn't matter at all , it's definitely progress and should be applauded by all.

But, is it really progress or PR? The actual effect of the claimed 'progress' isn't known and still won't be known for a very long time if ever; remember, Saudi Arabia has, in the past, subscribed to various 'peace proposals' only to turn a blind eye to the support of terrorism against Israel, the US, and other countries/entities by not only their citizens, but, also, members of the SA government and the Saudi Royal Family; the actual intent by SA in making its public show of 'endorsing' various 'peace proposals' has been more as a means of buying time and whitewashing what their citizens actually espouse; there has been a long time shell game of SA, and other Arab nations, actively engaging in sponsorship of terrorism and then trying to wash it all away by hiding behind the PR of 'peace proposals'; the Arab response to various outings of terrorist activities launched by their citizens has been one of 'But, we are not responsible; see, we have a peace document we signed to prove its not our fault!', an act as convincing as Claude Rains' police Captain who was "shocked! shocked!!" by wrongdoing he either was aware of or in which he participated in the movie Casablanca...

Of all the many, many, peace efforts launched in the Mideast, only two have afforded Israel any modicum of enhanced security: the Egypt-Israel and the Israel-Jordan Treaties; although they have not been perfect, they have, in fact removed a considerable amount of concern about those two states regarding Israel, and, by extension, the US and others; Jordan has maintained a hands off stance towards Israel and has not been welcoming to the more radical Islamists; Egypt has also been significantly less of a threat and has actually cooperated with US security entities in routing out terrorism; all in all not a bad result...

The latest UAE and Bahrain 'peace agreements' really do little more than attempt to burnish the international image of those states while giving them a quasi "plausible deniability" factor when they are "shocked! shocked!!" when one of their citizens is caught involved in terrorism...

Then there is the plight of a flailing Trump who desperately needs a PR "win", any "win", even if it is a hollow shell...

I wonder what Trump promised the UAE/Bahrain to get his faux deal...?...

<O>

u crank

09-14-20, 07:35 AM

Doesn't matter at all , it's definitely progress and should be applauded by all.

Indeed. Bravo.

I wonder what Trump promised the UAE/Bahrain to get his faux deal...?...

Perhaps there will be billions in cash to fund terrorist operations. That's never happened before.

Onkel Neal

09-14-20, 08:03 AM

In the continuing race to see just how hypocritical and nonsensically idiotic the GOP can get,

<O>

Ok, point taken.

But let's talk about hypocrisiy where it matters. Your Democrats constantly chant diversity! inclusion! POC power! When your primaries began there was a gay dude, several blacks, women, POC, hispanics, asians, and a Jew, yet somehow, somehow you managed to weed them all out and select a senile old white man whose 40+ years in political life are distinguished by one noteworthy accomplishment, the Biden Crime Bill, that he is now running away from as fast as his hairy legs will carry him.

Yeah, that's hypocrisy, where it counts.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d3/bd/19/d3bd19a97dff1626020dabb09517d62b.jpg

vienna

09-14-20, 08:55 AM

Ok, point taken.

But let's talk about hypocrisiy where it matters. Your Democrats constantly chant diversity! inclusion! POC power! When your primaries began there was a gay dude, several blacks, women, POC, hispanics, asians, and a Jew, yet somehow, somehow you managed to weed them all out and select a senile old white man whose 40+ years in political life are distinguished by one noteworthy accomplishment, the Biden Crime Bill, that he is now running away from as fast as his hairy legs will carry him.

Yeah, that's hypocrisy, where it counts.

...

Neal, nice try, but no cigar...

I'm not a Democrat and if you look at my posts, I vary rarely, if ever, "defend" them; once, some long time ago, in a thread far, far away, someone called me to task saying I was "defending" DEMs because I didn't criticize them openly in the threads, to which I pointed out there were so many anti-DEM posts, I just didn't see any point to unnecessarily pile on and, personally I don't think my agreeing would enhance the argument(s); reinventing the wheel is not my style; so don't mistake silence for complicity...

As far as hypocrisy is concerned, the GOP has a very long standing reputation of publicly stating lofty principles such as "family values", "law and order", and things like "not negotiating with terrorists" and "cleaning up the government", yet the past GOP administrations and Congresses have seen wide cases of adultery, sexual scandal, breach of laws of all types, backroom deals with not only terrorists, but, also, their sponsors, and some of the worst corruption and abuse of power ever seen in the modern US; the big difference in the GOP's finger pointing at the DEMs is they seem very hard pressed to explain their own failure to police their own while condemning others; if you're gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk, and so far the GOP has been very badly limping and putting up the idiocy, incompetency, and failure of Trump as their paragon doesn't make their stumbling any better; much like the Far-Right evangelicals who seem to be at a loss to defend or explain away their espousal of Trump when he is so blatantly a prime example of what a Christian should not be, the GOP can't seem to sell Trump as what a competent, sane, and effective President should be...

As an Independent, I don't 'defend' any party or political partisanship, but I will point out when a falsehood or distortion of facts does occur if no one else will and if I feel it is constructive in any degree; again silence is not agreement...

If the GOP wants to be taken seriously about their Flag-wrapped (but hollow) platitudes, then they have to grow a spine and clean house and maintain the standards they claim to have; if they did, who knows... I might just decide to join a party...

Now, go find some Democrats to hound about their hypocrisy... :03:

<O>

JU_88

09-14-20, 09:37 AM

vienna

09-14-20, 10:04 AM

Do you consider "family values" & "law and order" to be lofty principles? would you like to live in a society that doesnt value them at all ? I very much doubt it since with out them there is no 'society' just 'survival'. :P They are good principles and we would not be here without them, but they are also such obvious principles they shouldn't need polticians to re-enforce them. Because we cannot survive as speices with out them.

But, yes hypocrisy is common. If you want to find examples of that from either Dems or Reps, you would never run out of ammunition.

I wasn't arguing "family values" & "law and order" weren't lofty principle; I was, however, stating if you are going to claim principles and/or their defense, you had better be prepared to actually be enforcing adherence to those principles; "family values" are not being defended or upheld when your 'flag-bearer' has a very long and sordid history of moral depravity nor is "law and order" being honored when that same 'flag-bearer' has an equally long history of skirting and breaking the law and continues to be the target of numerous criminal investigations; let's face it: Trump is so desperate to stay in office not because he feels a calling to civic duty, but more because he knows the certainty is he will be doing a perp walk once he out from behind the shield of the office...

Yes, "family values" & "law and order" are "such obvious principles they shouldn't need polticians to re-enforce them", but when those politicians use those principles as an argument for their careers and their party, then we should really expect them to actually serve as an example of their espoused principles...

If you're gonna claim to be an animal lover, kicking a dog in public ain't a great idea...

It occurred to me that the DEMs have maybe actually gotten it right; they don't tend to campaign or claim based of lofty principles, they tend to deal with specific issues; they don't have to defend equivocations based on claimed virtues, something the GOP might want to consider: less platitudes, more specificity and provable results...

<O>

JU_88

09-14-20, 11:11 AM

Um well I dont know about the Dems doign the 'things right' in recent times.

The same dems that collectively:

Support 'peaceful protests' (large helping of salt there) then when they find out its not popular with the masses - they support law and order suddenly.

Defend black block Antifa types burning businesses And even offer to post their bail if Democrate D.A's even charge them at all.

Sympathise with 'defund the police' a bit too much, the solution to bad policing is obviously better policing not less policing - which obviously just leads to a spike in crime.

Pander to identiarian critical race theory nonsense. While states they have controlled for Decades smolder from race riots and face an exodus in record numbers (before the wild fires)

Support racial segregation (so long as its intended to create safe a space for POCs.) but the out come is no less devisive or different than the KKK's idea of segregation

Advocate for things like The green new deal, I mean really, have you read that?

Pro TIPP?

Played down covid early 2020 but now lambast trump for not doing enough? (Pelosi in particular)

Generally put the needs of non-U.S citizens above or on par with actual US citizens. (No nation on earth is reasonably expected to do that)

Rather than campaign on what they could do better - seem to be stuck at 'Here's why Trump is the bad guy. '

-------------
Yeah maybe they did get it right once upon a time, but they look like quite the car crash at the moment. Even next to Trump.
They are actually making the guy look good - and that really takes some doing!
Perhaps in their quest to be the 'polar opposite' of trump in every respect has perhaps driven them insane?

I have little doubt they have already lost the 2020 election.
Where/ what is the positive message the dems offer to the average American?
When your main talking point is your enemy. You have already lost IMO.

u crank

09-14-20, 11:31 AM

I wasn't arguing "family values" & "law and order" weren't lofty principle; I was, however, stating if you are going to claim principles and/or their defense, you had better be prepared to actually be enforcing adherence to those principles; "family values" are not being defended or upheld when your 'flag-bearer' has a very long and sordid history of moral depravity nor is "law and order" being honored when that same 'flag-bearer' has an equally long history of skirting and breaking the law and continues to be the target of numerous criminal investigations ...

Of course this brings up a rather obvious question. Are you suggesting that the Evangelical voters in 2016 should have cast their votes for the other candidate? Or vote for Joe Biden in 2020? I don't believe that these people think that Donald Trump is a morally upright man. That is not why they voted for and support him. Special interest groups are going to vote for the person they think will at least make an attempt to promise and fulfill their political and social issues. Perhaps you are suggesting that if the perfect moral character can't be found that they shouldn't vote at all. Would you hold yourself to that same standard? Or would you do what these people are doing, voting for a candidate that they hope will fulfill their political goals?

Onkel Neal

09-14-20, 09:02 PM

Neal, nice try, but no cigar...

I'm not a Democrat and if you look at my posts, I vary rarely, if ever, "defend" them; once, some long time ago, in a thread far, far away, someone called me to task saying I was "defending" DEMs because I didn't ....
As an Independent, I don't 'defend' any party or political partisanship, but I will point out when a falsehood or distortion of facts does occur if no one else will and if I feel it is constructive in any degree; again silence is not agreement...

If the GOP wants to be taken seriously about their Flag-wrapped (but hollow) platitudes, then they have to grow a spine and clean house and maintain the standards they claim to have; if they did, who knows... I might just decide to join a party...

Now, go find some Democrats to hound about their hypocrisy... :03:

<O>

If it walks like a duck,....:arrgh!: You may not be a democrat by admission... we hear about the GOP from you consistently but you're oddly quiet about dems.

August

09-14-20, 09:15 PM

Buddahaid

09-14-20, 10:39 PM

As long as we the people get to see it unedited it will be the comedy smash of the year. I'm ready.

Onkel Neal

09-14-20, 10:43 PM

Joe Rogan offers to host a presidential debate with the following rules:

No audience, staffers or teleprompters just Rogan, Trump and Biden in a room talking policy for four hours. Trump immediately accepted. Biden has not responded so far.

Awww that's beautiful!!

And no teleprompters to answer pre=selected interview questions!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBYXS1se8i0&feature=emb_logo

"And uh, in addition to that, uh, in addition to that, we have to, uh, make sure that we uh, we are in a position that we are, well, let me, let me go to the second thing. I've spoke enough on that."

Come on, scroll up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN15nNMJR1s
.
.
.

Skybird, when I do a google search for this topic, (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sxsrf=ALeKk0309y_UCJYfEFS2wO_EEOLtOPeBMw%3A1600141 556562&source=hp&ei=9DhgX8aOH4iItQWL1ozgBA&q=joe+rogan+trump&oq=joe+rogan+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgCMgUIABCRAjIFCAAQkQIyCAgAELE DEIMBMggIABCxAxCDATICCAAyAggAMggIABCxAxCDATIFCAAQs QMyCAgAELEDEIMBMgIIADoECCMQJzoICC4QxwEQowI6CwguELE DEMcBEKMCOggILhCxAxCDAToFCC4QkQI6BQguELEDOgIILjoIC C4QsQMQkQI6CwguELEDEIMBEJECOggILhDHARCvAToOCC4QsQM QgwEQkQIQkwJQmRBYkCVgrzpoAHAAeACAAUyIAZ8FkgECMTCYA QCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab) why does only non-MSM outlets report it?

.

Catfish

09-15-20, 02:35 AM

JU_88

09-15-20, 02:53 AM

I hear Trump has accepted to go Joe Rogans platform,
I hope Biden will to (if he is able)

That would be very cool if they did, much better enviroment than the presidential debates, they would have to the reduce the rehtoric and bravado and have an actual honest conversation. Something I'm sure they are both capable of.

JU_88

09-15-20, 03:00 AM

Trump would be no rival for any reasonable intelligent human being (what Biden of course is), but Biden's health problems will accompany him in this debate and in a presidency.. not a good idea.

Trump as a notorious liar is as sympathetic as any bragger and poser. If i were to have a "discussion" with Trump alone i would pack my boxing gloves :arrgh!:
If he cant win any argument against any intelligent human being, why would you need boxing gloves' and isnt that posing? :P

people usually resort violence when
a) They lost the argument.
and
b) They cant control their emotions

Ok I know you were jesting, but it is that sentiment (Political violence is acceptable against those i disagree with) that is very much a real problem at the moment.
We are supposed to be smarter than that.

Catfish

09-15-20, 03:47 AM

You are right. AND i was of course jesting but ..
being smart against the school bully does no get you far. Some people only understand certain action.
T cannot control HIS emotions.
T is anything but smart.

A healing punch usually breaks the blockade, unfortunately T's father did not do it in time :D
:03:

JU_88

09-15-20, 07:00 AM

Sure, being smart wont help you vs a violent bully,
But Trumps not really a violent bully. He got the presidency using words and he can potentially lose or keep it also using words.
Words can cause or esculate violence, but they are not violence Unless its direct order or textbook incitement

(not some vague interpretation)
Trumps not good with his words at all, I find him unpleasent at times, but not evil. I dont see him TRYING / Motivated to phycially harm someone or some people.
Any more that his predecors.

Im not saying hes a good guy, but The portait of him as some evil /hilter/dictator is (so far) not a fair or accurate assement to anyone sane.
Some People lose their minds over Trump be of what they enterpret he represents on ideolgical level.

u crank

09-15-20, 07:49 AM

Some People lose their minds over Trump be of what they enterpret he represents on ideolgical level.

I would say that you are quite correct. And to be fair the same could be said about how people on the Right view the ideolgical policies of President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

It's time to stop looking at personal behavior and examine policy. Neither Trump's twitter habits or Biden's declining health will effect how people live. But their policies will.

Skybird

09-15-20, 07:51 AM

Its the system.

Practically all of what you guys talk of, are just symptoms.

"Does really nobody wants to know what the Matrix is?" :stare:

Onkel Neal

09-15-20, 09:10 AM

The Matrix was a silly sci-fi movie. They used humans to create energy...? Dumb. They should have used cows,more energy and less pushback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQvjl-Z_V6s&list=LLFF4iwkweNkhuiXvyy2GeQQ&index=290

AVGWarhawk

09-15-20, 09:10 AM

Awww that's beautiful!!

And no teleprompters to answer pre=selected interview questions!

"And uh, in addition to that, uh, in addition to that, we have to, uh, make sure that we uh, we are in a position that we are, well, let me, let me go to the second thing. I've spoke enough on that."

Come on, scroll up!

.
.
.

.

Joe Biden's handlers know Joe is not up to the task of a debate. They also know he is not up to the task of running a country. What they(Pelosi and co) do know that he will be easily controlled if elected. Joe really does appear to not have control of his cognitive facilities.

AVGWarhawk

09-15-20, 09:13 AM

I would say that you are quite correct. And to be fair the same could be said about how people on the Right view the ideolgical policies of President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

It's time to stop looking at personal behavior and examine policy. Neither Trump's twitter habits or Biden's declining health will effect how people live. But their policies will.

What policies does Biden have other than spewing catch words to his base? Climate change. Free healthcare. Less taxes. Social Justice. The usual crap spewed every election.

Biden has yet to denounce and condemn the shooting of two police officers in LA. Why is that? Will Biden take a stance of police de-funding? He is on a very slipper slope supporting one(BLM) and dropping the other(police).

u crank

09-15-20, 10:21 AM

What policies does Biden have other than spewing catch words to his base? Climate change. Free healthcare. Less taxes. Social Justice. The usual crap spewed every election.

Biden has yet to denounce and condemn the shooting of two police officers in LA. Why is that? Will Biden take a stance of police de-funding? He is on a very slipper slope supporting one(BLM) and dropping the other(police).

I'm pretty sure that Biden says exactly what he is told to say. It's disturbing but Joe is going to have to display a lot more willingness to prove that isn't so. Question is will he?

JU_88

09-15-20, 01:43 PM

I would say that you are quite correct. And to be fair the same could be said about how people on the Right view the ideolgical policies of President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

It's time to stop looking at personal behavior and examine policy. Neither Trump's twitter habits or Biden's declining health will effect how people live. But their policies will.

Very true, you had some Tea Party nutters insisting obama was a Muslim terrorist - they were about as sane and well informed as the people who call Trump, Hitler.

Skybird

09-15-20, 02:25 PM

The Matrix was a silly sci-fi movie. They used humans to create energy...? Dumb. They should have used cows,more energy and less pushback.

No, the machines' plan actually was very clever. Instead of turning just harmless cows into energy that then would be needed to get wasted for the war against a hostile mankind, they turnd hostile mankind itself into energy, kept almost all that energy for themselves, and had to fight nobody. Threat removed. Energy conserved. Win-win.

Its as if an army invading another country stops worrying about logistics of food supply chains, instead eats the dead enemies killed in the battle before. Maybe not tasteful. But efficient.

Skybird

09-15-20, 04:56 PM

I never felt love for electronic voting. To call this method an execution of utmost naivety is a polite understatement.

From this piece by Windows expert Susan Bradley: https://www.askwoody.com/2020/checking-on-your-vote-usa-centric/

In the qabove, I especially point out: https://www.darkreading.com/omdia/black-hat-usa-2020-recap-experts-discuss-election-security-questions-but-offer-few-answers/a/d-id/1338707

And for Californians:

https://ballottrax.com/
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/wheres-my-ballot

Susan Bradley also links this ressource for all Americans to check:

https://microsoft.turbovote.org/

And in a wider context, these links are included in the above:

https://decider.com/2020/09/09/the-social-dilemma-netflix-documentary-review/

https://www.microsoft.com/security/blog/2020/09/10/strontium-detecting-new-patters-credential-harvesting/

mapuc

09-15-20, 05:06 PM

JU_88

09-15-20, 06:39 PM

In the Primetime news I heard the journalist who is in USA saying following.

It's about the shooting at these two policeofficer who was sitting in their police car in Los Angeles.

"The general perception among Americans is that a war is being waged with the country's police forces"

Is this true do you my American friends have this view there's a war against your police forces ?

Markus

I heard about that, some sicko then filmed it while laughing, protesters then turned up at the hospital to celebrate and shout 'Your next' at other officers, really messed up. George Floyds death was messed up too, but this a whole new level of disturbing.

Buddahaid

09-15-20, 06:47 PM

I think so but I also think it's been that way for decades. Ever since the war on drugs escalated, gangster mentality became urban cool and the big drug cartels became more violent, the police responded by becoming more paramilitary. Now we have this mess and the attempts to defund the police. The police need reform but the war will go on as long as lawlessness tries to win. It's already well past the point where anything but serious crime is ignored. People suck and they suck more and more.

JU_88

09-15-20, 06:54 PM

Yeah, I hope the US can pull though in the end, though at the moment it seems like a perfect storm over there, even if the craziness is only a minority.

Catfish

09-16-20, 02:30 AM

Yeah, I hope the US can pull though in the end, [...], even if the craziness is only a minority.
be sure?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ik6nqV7s4

Skybird

09-16-20, 02:47 AM

I heard about that, some sicko then filmed it while laughing, protesters then turned up at the hospital to celebrate and shout 'Your next' at other officers, really messed up. George Floyds death was messed up too, but this a whole new level of disturbing.
Yes killing for joy always is sick, in any context. But what has happened there, had to be expectec sooner or later. Some people, and by growing number, feel they have a right for revenge, for payback at the police. And if this sentiment spreads, in a country as weapon-saturated as the US, then the problems have just begun.

JU_88

09-16-20, 02:53 AM

be sure?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ik6nqV7s4

Yeah Im sure, thats a relatively passive form of 'crazy' Cat, even if the second guy is clearly delusional. (While the other two are pretty average.)

Still, not the same a dehumanizing another group and celebrating acts of violence against them, that is past the point of no return.

Catfish

09-16-20, 04:25 AM

I'm pretty sure that Biden says exactly what he is told to say. It's disturbing but Joe is going to have to display a lot more willingness to prove that isn't so. Question is will he?
:hmmm:
If Trump gets dementia, how will you know?

skidman

09-16-20, 04:50 AM

He will talk about herd mentality, viruses magically disappearing and vaccines magically materializing.

skidman

09-16-20, 05:08 AM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden/

The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the U.S. and its people—because he rejects evidence and science. The most devastating example is his dishonest and inept response to the COVID-19 pandemic, which cost more than 190,000 Americans their lives by the middle of September.

u crank

09-16-20, 05:10 AM

:hmmm:
If Trump gets dementia, how will you know?

Ha Ha Ha. Very funny.

The truth is we will know the same way for everyone else. When his behavior noticeably changes. I actually have a great deal of sympathy for Joe Biden. I've seen enough examples of dementia in my family and friends to not make fun of unfortunate victims. And I think it is shameful that people close to Biden would not be truthful about what they are seeing.

Skybird

09-16-20, 05:10 AM

"The form of democracy practiced today is increasingly a symptom of the process of buying votes and of lubricating and rewarding unfair special interests, an auction system in which every few years the power of legislation is entrusted to those who promise their followers the greatest special advantages, a system created by the blackmail and corruption system of politics with a single all-powerful assembly,named by the word fetish democracy. "

(F.A.v.Hayek, 1981)

Stop caring for just the symptoms only and thinking they are the core and centre of it all. Realise its the system that gives you the troubles. And the system is embedded in a context that pretty much also points at yourself. Its easy to point fingers always at politicians and candidates and parties. Whereas the real guilty guy in the end always is - yourself, legitimising them, obeying their rules, serving them. Want to see change? See to change yourself and cancel your established loyalties and obediences. There lies no way out and no solutions in the established thinkign patterns - they are not the cure but have been the reason we ended up where we are. More of the same will not get us out. It only gets us deeper into it.

Catfish

09-16-20, 05:25 AM

u crank: Nice twist of yours, noted.
I would say that there are other people who are making fun of Biden and his health, like Trump and his followers. You are aware how Trump refers to people with health problems? Losers? Yes, how very FUNNY.

Trump is talking so much nonsense that it is strange how no one mentions his mental condition.

u crank

09-16-20, 05:53 AM

I would say that there are other people who are making fun of Biden and his health, like Trump and his followers. You are aware how Trump refers to people with health problems? Losers? Yes, how very FUNNY.

I get the impression that you think I am defending and agreeing with everything that Donald Trump does or says. Do you?

Trump is talking so much nonsense that it is strange how no one mentions his mental condition.

You cannot mix personality traits, behavior and a lack of manners with mental decline. Not the same.

I know exactly what you were saying. But there is a difference. You can easily find YouTube videos of Donald Trump going back many years and he talks the same way. Word salads, boasting and a limited and non intellectual vocabulary. If you do the same for Joe Biden you cannot help but notice a change. Unless of course you don't want to see it. The drive to get rid of Trump is well populated with people who are quite willing to accept a President who might not be capable to achieve that goal. Think about that.

Catfish

09-16-20, 08:02 AM

^ Yes, what i meant is that while Biden maybe has health issues the acting president does his bogus and lying without excuse.
Heaven knows what Trump will say and do with medical problems, adding to the existing ones.

u crank

09-16-20, 08:29 AM

^ Yes, what i meant is that while Biden maybe has health issues the acting president does his bogus and lying without excuse.

Are you saying that Joe Biden doesn't lie?

Catfish

09-16-20, 08:40 AM

Onkel Neal

09-16-20, 09:48 AM

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/trump-ad-asks-people-to-support-the-troops-but-it-uses-a-picture-of-russian-jets-414883

https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/46580b5/2147483647/resize/1920x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F29%2F57%2 Ff565fbc34594a6ec79b4e84f7112%2Fad.JPG

Haha, we got the Russkies supporting our troops!

Skybird

09-16-20, 09:53 AM

Nice try. Ok let us just say "Yes, Biden does not lie."
See, it works. Now you will go up in flames and curse and think and write and be diverted from the real problem.

Trump does it all the time, and deliberately. Often he says the absolute opposite of what he said a day before, and all will go for this, and discuss, but also let him do whatever he wants. Win-win :yeah:
Yeah, when it comes to lies, nobody does it like the Big Bad Papa Boss does. Because he does not know the difference between truth and lie himself. Not even that there is a difference. He has lied so often in his life before, in context of his family and father, that it became a habit, part of his personality disorder'S symptoms, a leanrign success of that he can get away with things he broke if he lies about them, and lies blatantly. Its a psychiatric thing. He cannot not lie.

Have mercy with him. He is sick to the centre of his mind. Think of it like Tourette, the verbal tic in it. The difference however is, the Tourette patient knows that there is going something wrong when he has another verbal outburst, he cannot control it while knowing that it is happening right now. Trump cannot differentiate between reality and his fantasy, truth and lie anymore. Thats a decisive difference. Its delusion.

Trump again denies evidence of his own voice
[...]
The town hall event exactly seven weeks before Election Day was a reminder of the kind of chaos, falsehoods and divisiveness that is a selling point for the President's most faithful voters but is the kind of behavior that may prompt an undecided voter to turn away.
The stream of lies and alternative realities that the President promoted recalled a statement attributed to former Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats in Woodward's book "Rage" that was published on Tuesday.
"To him a lie is not a lie. It's just what he thinks. He doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie," Coats is quoted as saying to former Secretary of Defense James Mattis.
Such commentary was borne out when Trump responded to a question by a first time voter from Pittsburgh who asked why he was captured on tapes made by Woodward as downplaying the pandemic.
"Yeah, well, I didn't downplay it. I, actually, in many ways, I up-played it, in terms of action," he said.
In essence, the President is inviting voters to refuse to believe the evidence of their own ears on his early attitude to the worst domestic crisis since World War II that has now killed 195,000 Americans and pitched 30 million out of work.
He is implicitly arguing that not only does he not deserve any blame for a response that lags other industrialized nations -- the US has 4% of the world's population and more than 20% of the Covid-19 cases and deaths.
But such a view relies on an interpretation that distorts the traditional sense that the buck stops on the Oval Office desk and instead relies on voters to believe a flagrant act of salesmanship that defies the reality of their own lives.
After Trump told Fox News earlier Tuesday that he had read Woodward's book on Monday night, and found it "boring," Woodward said that the President was living in an "Orwellian world."
"He was told, he knew, he told me about it," the veteran reporter told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
"I don't know, to be honest, whether he's got it straight in his head what is real and what is unreal."

u crank

09-16-20, 10:28 AM

Nice try. Ok let us just say "Yes, Biden does not lie."

You can say it all you want. But of course he does. If you want proof I can show you. But I think we could agree that all politicians lie. I see no evidence to the contrary. So it would seem that the plan is to replace one President who lies with another President who lies. One could ask the question, when or if Joe Biden becomes President will he stop lying? That's unlikely because he, like Trump has been doing it for so long that he can't help it. Will we excuse Joe Biden's lies because he is a Democrat? Because he has dementia? Or simply because he is not Donald Trump?

Mr Quatro

09-16-20, 11:56 AM

Will we excuse Joe Biden's lies because he is a Democrat? Because he has dementia? Or simply because he is not Donald Trump?

I'm starting to discern that Biden had a speech impediment and over came it.
Perhaps what we are seeing is not dementia, but a slow mind that had to overcome a handicap.

Film from earlier days would clarify that :yep:

It's the plain discernment that Biden has a problem with women and young girls by touching them
in ways that spell pervert that bother me and I don't understand how he can get away with so many images
of his inappropriate behaviour. :oops:

I hope Donald Trump takes it easy on Joe or he may become the underdog in the voters eyes. Let the people decide if Joe is up to the task of being a world leader. :yep:

Buddahaid

09-16-20, 12:07 PM

Maybe because no one is filing lawsuits?

Jimbuna

09-16-20, 01:25 PM

mapuc

09-16-20, 04:12 PM

(My patience has its limits-Sooner or later I'm going to use IE 11 Instead)

So some of you my American friends are not so enlighten

Here is what I read in a comment

(Used translate)

"Americans are generally not very enlightened. It also explains that Trump is president!"

Does this mean those who vote Dem are very much enlighten ?

Markus

Buddahaid

09-16-20, 05:07 PM

I think it's fair to say both sides think they are enlightened and the other side blind. It's more about where you stand on the issues and which side is aligned closest.

Onkel Neal

09-17-20, 07:59 AM

He will talk about herd mentality, viruses magically disappearing and vaccines magically materializing.

Lol, yeah! :haha:

More like "He will talk about being a super genius, viruses magically disappearing and using bleach inside the body"

Bilge_Rat

09-17-20, 08:17 AM

Yeah, that was flagged up yesterday on a FB aviation forum and some aviation 'experts' were arguing whether it was a Mig-29 or not :doh:

hard to say, looks more like a F-14 to me, very similar shape to a Mig 29.

Skybird

09-17-20, 10:02 AM

Lol, yeah! :haha:

More like "He will talk about being a super genius, viruses magically disappearing and using bleach inside the body"
"Virus runs when Donny comes!" :yeah:

Bilge_Rat

09-17-20, 12:40 PM

F14 Tomcat landing on a carrier. Compare that to the poster:

-same shape, twin tails, twin engine booms, same wing shape and aspect, etc.

I think journalists are seeing a Mig 29 because it makes a good story.

MaDef

09-17-20, 09:06 PM

I think it's because Adam Schiff has offered a reward for proof of Russian interference in this election, so the media sees Boris Badenov everywhere.:D

Schroeder

09-17-20, 10:02 PM

The plane in the poster is not a F14.
The F14's stabilizers connect to the fuselage directly over the engines.
https://i.postimg.cc/9QvGxdCJ/external-content-duckduckgo-com.jpg

It's not a F/A18 either as the 18's engines are closer together.
https://i.postimg.cc/hGNmKws9/external-content-duckduckgo-com4.jpg

It's not a F15 because the F15's stabilizers are vertical while the ones in the poster are at an angle.
https://i.postimg.cc/mrPMfRYL/external-content-duckduckgo-com3.jpg

Compare the plane in the poster to a MiG 29 though and you have a perfect match from engine configuration over stabilizer position, over elevator shape and even the drag chute tube in the center between the engines.

https://i.postimg.cc/BbV8j3vM/external-content-duckduckgo-com2.jpg
So we have proven that someone who made a poster didn't know fighter jets.... The world will stop turning because of it.....

Skybird

09-18-20, 01:15 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/olivia-troye-coronavirus-white-house/2020/09/17/d3f67ede-f8ed-11ea-a510-f57d8ce76e11_story.html?tidr=a_breakingnews

Typical for a psychopaths behavioural pattern.

Jimbuna

09-18-20, 04:12 AM

^ Won't open unless you pay a subscription? :hmmm:

Armistead

09-18-20, 08:32 AM

I'm starting to discern that Biden had a speech impediment and over came it.
Perhaps what we are seeing is not dementia, but a slow mind that had to overcome a handicap.

Film from earlier days would clarify that :yep:

It's the plain discernment that Biden has a problem with women and young girls by touching them
in ways that spell pervert that bother me and I don't understand how he can get away with so many images
of his inappropriate behaviour. :oops:

I hope Donald Trump takes it easy on Joe or he may become the underdog in the voters eyes. Let the people decide if Joe is up to the task of being a world leader. :yep:

His speech impediment has not been an issue in the past decades. It's clear now his trouble is not getting hung up on words but the inability to find them in his mind to start with.

Skybird

09-18-20, 09:03 AM

^ Won't open unless you pay a subscription? :hmmm:
Left of the three options, allows you to read a couple of articles for free per month, but with adverts. No subscription needed (I have none). Since i blocked much stuff in Firefox, adverts almost never comes. :)

Threadfin

09-18-20, 09:09 AM

Typical for a psychopaths behavioural pattern.

The staffer? I agree.

Buddahaid

09-18-20, 10:22 AM

Cool the entire White House is psychopathic from the top down then...

Mr Quatro

09-18-20, 10:30 AM

Perhaps Biden and Harris know something we don't about who's really going to be the next President for four years if Biden/Harris win?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/09/15/biden_refers_to_harris-biden_administration_only_hours_after_harris_does. html

Hours after his running mate Kamala Harris corrected herself after accidentally referring to a Harris-Biden administration instead of a Biden-Harris administration, former VP Joe Biden appeared to make the same verbal slip up during an appearance in Florida.

Threadfin

09-18-20, 10:43 AM

The staffer? I agree.

If someone uses the Washington Post as a source of record I must object. There is no more liberal-biased newspaper in the US than the WaPo. Consume your news wherever you wish, but at least be aware that what you are reading might, possibly, be biased or untrue.

So, contrast what you see in the WaPo link with what you read here.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2020/09/18/whistleblower-olivia-troyes-resignation-letter-sounds-very-different-from-her-wapo-interview-attacking-trumps-covid-response/

Raises some questions as to the veracity of the allegations? Or just accept it as true because it is written in the Washington Post or dovetails nicely with your worldview. Your call.

Jimbuna

09-18-20, 11:52 AM

Left of the three options, allows you to read a couple of articles for free per month, but with adverts. No subscription needed (I have none). Since i blocked much stuff in Firefox, adverts almost never comes. :)

Rgr that :salute:

Catfish

09-18-20, 02:56 PM

I still think the Washington Post has a bit more reputation, style and respectability than just of all the far-right "Twitchy.com"? :doh:
If Trump calls something fake news it is usually him who makes up the bulls. .

No one should fall for this. If Trump tells another lie, everyone should ignore it. No waste of time to correct him, and as a side effect his followers are like "oh when he says it it must be somehow true".
BULL! LIAR!

SH!t I fell for it, again :D

u crank

09-18-20, 03:19 PM

I still think the Washington Post has a bit more reputation, style and respectability than just of all the far-right "Twitchy.com"? :doh:

The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world. Bezos is a diehard fan of Donald Trump and would never do anything to hurt his reputation.

:O::O::O:

Catfish

09-18-20, 03:38 PM

The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world. Bezos is a diehard fan of Donald Trump and would never do anything to hurt his reputation. [...]
See? I KNEW IT! :haha: :03:

Buddahaid

09-18-20, 03:45 PM

The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world. Bezos is a diehard fan of Donald Trump and would never do anything to hurt his reputation.

:O::O::O:

So Trump is green with envy then for not being the richest of the richest....😭

u crank

09-18-20, 04:04 PM

So Trump is green with envy then for not being the richest of the richest....😭

:haha:

Skybird

09-18-20, 04:13 PM

This caught me on the wrong foot, I laughed tears. Works only in German, so no translation.

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/stoffe_ts/26200868/2-format1007.jpg

August

09-18-20, 04:50 PM

:)

Joe Biden Resurrects False College Claim That Helped Ruin His 1988 Presidential Run (https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/18/joe-biden-resurrects-false-college-claim-that-helped-ruin-his-1988-presidential-run/)

Joe Biden is not the first person in his family to attend college. But he has a lengthy history of claiming otherwise, no matter how much the lie gets him in trouble.
Even after having famously admitted exactly 33 years ago to the day that he had family who had gone to college before him, Biden once again made the false claim at a CNN Town Hall on Thursday night.
Biden enthusiast Charlotte Alter, a national correspondent at Time magazine, tweeted out his line, apparently unaware of its role in Biden’s 1987 presidential campaign collapse:
https://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Screen-Shot-2020-09-18-at-1.20.21-AM.png

https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/18/joe-biden-resurrects-false-college-claim-that-helped-ruin-his-1988-presidential-run/

mapuc

09-19-20, 03:11 PM

Hope they get the person or persons who have done this

Remove him through the election-is the only way to do it.

A package containing the poison ricin and addressed to President Donald Trump was intercepted by law enforcement earlier this week, according to two law enforcement officials.

Two tests were done to confirm the presence of ricin. All mail for the White House is sorted and screened at an offsite facility before reaching the White House.
The FBI and Secret Service are investigating the matter.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/19/politics/package-poison-ricin-addressed-to-trump-intercepted/index.html

Markus

Catfish

09-20-20, 03:04 PM

re post
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2696045&postcount=10641
Schroeder! Good to read you again :up:

Skybird

09-24-20, 05:00 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54274115

Mitt Romney, a Republican senator who is a rarity in his party because he occasionally criticises the president, tweeted on Wednesday: "Fundamental to democracy is the peaceful transition of power; without that, there is Belarus.
"Any suggestion that a president might not respect this Constitutional guarantee is both unthinkable and unacceptable."

Not fully correct, Mr. Romney: with Donald, you have Belarus anyway, under any circumstance.

Thats what happens when psychiatric patients like psychopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder come to ransl and powers. Then they are not just ill anymore, but dangerous and a threat to the common public. Most autocratic tyrants in history and in the present, are like this.

u crank

09-24-20, 07:34 AM

Thats what happens when psychiatric patients like psychopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder come to ransl and powers. Then they are not just ill anymore, but dangerous and a threat to the common public. Most autocratic tyrants in history and in the present, are like this.

Autocratic - relating to a ruler who has absolute power.

When, where and how? Please explain how you statement relates to President Trump. Give some examples please.

Trump came to power and remains in office by democratic means. What are you talking about?

Hawk66

09-24-20, 08:41 AM

Autocratic - relating to a ruler who has absolute power.

When, where and how? Please explain how you statement relates to President Trump. Give some examples please.

Trump came to power and remains in office by democratic means. What are you talking about?

Are you sure about the latter one ? I would claim he has already considerably weakened the democracy in his country. Alone, if serious or not, that he again told reporters that hey may not leave his office even if he looses (and if the election would be fair, the result is already clear , with other words, we do not need an election at all) and this has no consequences at all...

What would happen if Obama had said that 2012 ?

You can call or label Trump anything but not that he is in love for democracy.

u crank

09-24-20, 09:14 AM

Are you sure about the latter one ? I would claim he has already considerably weakened the democracy in his country. Alone, if serious or not, that he again told reporters that hey may not leave his office even if he looses (and if the election would be fair, the result is already clear , with other words, we do not need an election at all) and this has no consequences at all...

It doesn't matter what Trump or anyone else says. What matters is what will happen. If the election is decided on Nov. 3rd or later by the Supreme Court whoever is declared the winner and is inaugurated on Jan. 20th will be the President. All of the power and authority will be given to that person, Trump or Biden. If Trump loses he can sit at the Resolute desk in his boxer shorts and eat Big Macks with the door locked. But he won't be President.

What would happen if Obama had said that 2012 ?

Well ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156

Skybird

09-24-20, 09:37 AM

Autocratic - relating to a ruler who has absolute power.
Or tries to have that, implies he has, claims to have, wants to have, breaks the rules to get it, craves to get it.
There is no difference between Trump and Lukashenko. The only difference is still in the rulesets they are embedded in that tame them more or less and decreasingly so (US)- or not at all already now (Belarus). But by character and posture and willingness to play foul, they are not different at all.

Eyes wide shut you have.

Rockstar

09-24-20, 10:08 AM

Most of the arguement I think stems from how some States currently send and process mail in ballots. Trump says there is 'widespread' fraud. Certain States say they have not found any 'significant' fraud. Either way it is going to compel each State to really tighten up the process. Because it would be a major embarrassment if they botch this and are found out.

Also, contrary to what some may think, in my country a citizen has a RIGHT to LEGALLY contest the count. In fact in some cases they are even invited to do so.

“the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any.” Any such objection must be presented in writing and must be signed by at least one Senator and Representative. Furthermore, the objection “shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof.”

Unlike Lukashenko, Germany and Belarus we are a free society and can object to the count without fear of being, purged, poisoned, shot, sent to gulag or concentration camp just because the uneducated mob says so.

u crank

09-24-20, 11:05 AM

Eyes wide shut you have.

Of course. If people don't agree with you and you can give no definitive facts for your belief naturally you insult their capabilities. Why am I not surprised?

Armistead

09-24-20, 12:53 PM

I see the Dems/liberal like this.. You go out to eat and get a great waiter/service but the food is terrible. You still tip the waiter very well {taxes}, but you go home hungry. With Trump, the service is terrible but the food is great, you don't tip the waiter a dime and go home well fed, but angry. I prefer my family eating as more necessary!

mapuc

09-24-20, 01:12 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54274115

Thats what happens when psychiatric patients like psychopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder come to ransl and powers. Then they are not just ill anymore, but dangerous and a threat to the common public. Most autocratic tyrants in history and in the present, are like this.

You the one with a diploma, so you know more about a public person than I do..I do know that a President...psycho or not must have some to put a vote on them...otherwise they would not win a seat/the presidential election.

Markus

Rockstar

09-24-20, 02:57 PM

Meanwhile in the E.U. where they dont vote for their leaders. German elitists having by their behavior driven the British out of the E.U. Are now setting their sights once again on the French.

French farmers drove tractors through town centres and blocked highways to oppose extra agricultural imports from South America, raising pressure on President Emmanuel Macron to push against a new trade deal
https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/1338763_1.webp?r=1600803811079

Skybird

09-25-20, 12:06 AM

You the one with a diploma, so you know more about a public person than I do..I do know that a President...psycho or not must have some to put a vote on them...otherwise they would not win a seat/the presidential election.

Markus
I see a big threat, which grows from week to weak, and that is that Trump simply refuses to accept even clear defeat. The US system is surprisingly weak, experty say, regarding enforcment of such acceptance, since it was designed on the premisse that he who lost honestly and honkurably admits that and steps back voluntarily. Trump just has refused for the repeated time that he would, and has rallied the legal experts around him seeking advice how to not leave if he looses. And not forget that he is und er threat of getting sued once the legal immunity of his office ends. He also applauded Xi for turning the Chinese pr esidency into an unlimited one, I mean: for life, he said that in the US one should do it like that, too. Formall y, and I mean just formally, military and secret service remain under his command. I am really increasingly worried about civil war like unrest and an coup d'etat indeed, Trump has demonstrated his antipathy for rulesand law before, risks to get sued after the WH, and has done quite some manouvers now indicating that he might nt want to accept even clear defeat and would try to play foul. Why just ignoring his words and indications? Why assuming that a frog stops squawking and jumping? He has never cared for legalty in his life - only for getting away with something. His biography is full with that. And he is a man with a narcissistic personality order and antisocial personality, such people just cannot bear to be rejectex, they cannot bear not to be liked. If they are not liked, in their inside they want to force the other than to like them. So, psychodynamically he is an extremely dangerous, sick person. And his - often armed! - fans are not the brightest lamps on the lamp shop's shelves, too.

Plenty of reasons to be very concerned.

Skybird

09-25-20, 05:58 AM

Against democracy.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-integrity-2020-count/index.html

"I spent 38 years as a Republican lawyer going into precincts looking for evidence of fraud. There are, to be sure, isolated cases, but nothing like the widespread fraud that would somehow invalidate an election or cause anyone to doubt the peaceful transfer of power," Ben Ginsberg, who helped litigate the 2000 election on George W. Bush's behalf, told CNN's John King on Thursday. "So what's different about this is a president of the United States going right at one of the pillars of the democracy without the evidence that you have got to have to make that case."

u crank

09-25-20, 10:56 AM

CNN Asks Guest If Military Would Intervene if Trump Doesn’t Leave Office.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/09/25/cnn-asks-guest-if-military-can-intervene-if-trump-doesnt-leave-office-n2576901

During an interview with former national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Wolf Blitzer asked what would happen with the military in that type of situation.

“General, if the president were to lose the election on November 3rd, and if he were to refuse to concede — this is a hypothetical, but you’re a military guy — what role would the U.S. military have to play in that type of scenario?"

McMaster replied, "Absolutely no role."

"And those who suggest that the military would have any role in transition, they are being equally irresponsible," McMaster continued.

Mean while on the other side of the argument ...

South Carolina Democrat Jim Clyburn has said that Trump is not going to win fairly.

Senator Barbara Boxer has said that the only way Trump will win is to steal it.

The Washington Post' has noted, 'Democrats may not trust the results of the election if Trump wins.'

Hillary Clinton says that Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstance.

August

09-25-20, 03:00 PM

Drip drip

An FBI agent who played a lead role investigating Michael Flynn told the Justice Department there was never evidence of wrongdoing by the retired general or Russian collusion by President Trump, but the probe was kept open by Special Counsel Robert Mueller because his team had a "get Trump" goal, according to an explosive interview released Friday. Agent William Barnett's interview with Justice Department prosecutors earlier this month provided a bombshell claim that both FBI superiors under agency Director James Comey and Mueller's team exhibited bias in their pursuit of Trump that upended the normal investigative decisions, tactics and commitment to pursue evidence neutrally.
The interview emerged just one day after the Justice Department released text messages showing FBI analysts bought liability insurance in January 2017 because they feared they could be sued for misconduct committed during the Russia probe.

https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/fbi-agent-never-was-evidence-russia-collusion-mueller

Hawk66

09-29-20, 01:17 PM

Torvald Von Mansee

09-29-20, 02:14 PM

mapuc

09-29-20, 03:45 PM

I watched a lengthy interview with Bill Gates this weekend by a TED moderator . He asked Bill what he does feel about this crazy conspiration theories, that a vaccine his foundation helps to research would inject a microchip into the people so that he (Gates) could track them.

The moderator claims that according to a study 40% of the Republican voters would believe this story.

I can only hope this is not true but on the other hand it would explain a lot. Especially regarding Trump.

Welcome to the stone age. I have a business idea: Let's create a service, where everybody can create his conspiration theory and get followers. Since AI is progressing fast these days, it could help to formulate such theory. It does not really understand it since there is nothing to understand about it :up:

This made me remember a science article in which it said
2/3 of the Americans believed in conspiracy.

Then some percentage of how many who believe the moonlanding was a hoax and so on.
This was nothing but a little off topic answer to Hawk66.

Back to political discussion but still using some of it.
2/3 may believe in conspiracy....but how many percent do believe their politicians ?
Conspiracy is said to contain an uns of truth...how much truth is it in what a politicians is telling the spectators at some election meeting ?

Editing
I wanted to see this man to man battle between Trump and Biden live, the problem is the time it start will be 0300 here in Denmark. Thank God I have a usb-harddrive connected to my tv(PVR) so I can see it after breakfast and other things.
End editing

Markus

Gorpet

09-29-20, 11:32 PM

I see a big threat, which grows from week to weak, and that is that Trump simply refuses to accept even clear defeat. The US system is surprisingly weak, experty say, regarding enforcment of such acceptance, since it was designed on the premisse that he who lost honestly and honkurably admits that and steps back voluntarily. Trump just has refused for the repeated time that he would, and has rallied the legal experts around him seeking advice how to not leave if he looses. And not forget that he is und er threat of getting sued once the legal immunity of his office ends. He also applauded Xi for turning the Chinese pr esidency into an unlimited one, I mean: for life, he said that in the US one should do it like that, too. Formall y, and I mean just formally, military and secret service remain under his command. I am really increasingly worried about civil war like unrest and an coup d'etat indeed, Trump has demonstrated his antipathy for rulesand law before, risks to get sued after the WH, and has done quite some manouvers now indicating that he might nt want to accept even clear defeat and would try to play foul. Why just ignoring his words and indications? Why assuming that a frog stops squawking and jumping? He has never cared for legalty in his life - only for getting away with something. His biography is full with that. And he is a man with a narcissistic personality order and antisocial personality, such people just cannot bear to be rejectex, they cannot bear not to be liked. If they are not liked, in their inside they want to force the other than to like them. So, psychodynamically he is an extremely dangerous, sick person. And his - often armed! - fans are not the brightest lamps on the lamp shop's shelves, too.

Plenty of reasons to be very concerned.

Bird,for a self proclaimed psychiatrist you sure do let our President Donald Trump rent a lot of space in your head. :har:

Cybermat47

09-30-20, 02:59 AM

Do you think that the next election will include at least one functioning adult?

Jimbuna

09-30-20, 03:40 AM

Not seen last nights debate yet but going by the news prompts on my iPhone thus far, I'm certainly looking forward to viewing it.

Catfish

09-30-20, 04:27 AM

I'm looking forward to not viewing it :03:

Jimbuna

09-30-20, 05:53 AM

I'm looking forward to not viewing it :03:

Having caught up I can imagine the likes of Russia and China feeling pretty well entertained.

Rockstar

09-30-20, 07:25 AM

I'm looking forward to not viewing it :03:

I couldn't help myself. Out of curiosity I tuned in for about 1 minute or two to look at the car wreck. The one thing that really stood out was how freakin' old Joe looked. Then I went back to my movie.

Cybermat47

09-30-20, 10:53 AM

I’ve got two questions for the Americans here; do you think that America is an imperialist country, and if you do, do you think that’s a good thing?

Personally, I’d argue that America’s current status as the dominant power in the world both economically (the USD is almost a global currency) and militarily (the US military has bases in all four hemispheres) demonstrates that the US is a hegemonic (indirect) empire, and that it’s done bad things (like the 1953 Iranian coup and South American regime changes) and good things (like helping to defeat the Nazis, defending South Korea from the communist North, and helping to defeat ISIS and al Qaeda).

Just to be clear, I’m not looking to start any fights or push an anti-America agenda (my own country has plenty of bad stuff including an attempted cultural genocide that only ended in the 70s), just looking for people’s opinions on an academic debate.

Mr Quatro

09-30-20, 11:21 AM

Imperialism is when a country controls another country politically and/or economically, often against the will of the people of the country. One example of imperialism is when the British established colonies in North America. The British established thirteen colonies in what is now the United States.

I don't think so ... who do we tell what to do? Not Canada, Not Mexico, Not Japan, Not UK, no African countries.

Our foreign bases are to protect our allies and be a front pawn piece for unselfish American interest.

We do more for them than they do for us.

I would think that Guam and Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands wanted to be counted as American states and or friends.

Now Hawaii might have a claim for USA's Imperialism :yep:

Aktungbby

09-30-20, 11:31 AM

Now Hawaii might have a claim for USA's Imperialism :yep:Mahalo BBY! Considering the company and first governor who conspired to overthrow the legitimate queen of a US ally...native Hawaiians would, should, could truely be "on the Dole "!:03:

Rockstar

09-30-20, 12:10 PM

What we know there are over 250,000 soldiers and 716 bases in 38 countries around the world. We have a military presence in 164 countries on all seven continents. There are 44,000 personnel across the globe the Defense Manpower Data Center labeled whereabouts and purpose 'unknown'

There are outposts not even listed on the Pentagon's 2018 Base Structure report but suspect they are continually expanding particularly in Africa. Most information is readily available some not but people dont really care because its not spoon fed to them in a headline.

With 2.15 million Service Members, 733,000 civilian employees the United States Department of Defense is America's largest employer. Keep in mind too a president recently said he wanted to stop "the endless war". He was met with hostility by both parties, his own generals, foreign leaders and media. I think Dwight Eisenhower warned us about that in 1961.

We are not imperialists, we are Borg.

skidman

09-30-20, 12:12 PM

I don't think so ... who do we tell what to do?

Right now you are telling a country not to build a gas pipeline. And you are threatening the decision makers involved in the project in a unacceptable way.

We do more for them than they do for us.

I beg to differ, but that matter is beyond the scope of the question.

Catfish

09-30-20, 01:18 PM

@Aktung: You deleted your post about the p... contest, how did you know :hmmm:

https://i.imgur.com/UjycMyDl.jpg

August

09-30-20, 03:33 PM

No problem here right?

Growing signs that mass mail-in voting is going to be a disaster
By Post Editorial Board

September 29, 2020 | 7:07pm

Most of the media keep waving off any suggestion that mass-scale mail-in balloting could prove a disaster this November. But what if the bungling already seen here in deep-blue New York also happens in Florida, Pennsylvania or some other swing state?
Remember: It was Democratic officials who produced the infamous “butterfly ballot” in Florida in 2000 — turning normal, in-person voting into a confusing mess.
The snafu’d New York ballots that went out marked as “military absentee (https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/nyc-voters-wrongly-getting-mail-in-ballots-marked-for-military-use/)” rather than “military/absentee” are confusing many citizens — who may fail to vote as a result. And sending incorrectly addressed return envelopes (https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/brooklyn-voters-report-receiving-mislabeled-absentee-ballots/) may yet mess with the count, even if Board of Election officials get the right ones off.
Blaming vendors is all well and good — but these are huge red flags of serious quality-control issues. As Jiong Wang of Brooklyn Heights told The Post, “This is not stoking confidence in the election system.”

Like many other Brooklynites, Wang got a return envelope for his ballot with the name and address of a different Brooklyn voter filled in; his wife got his return envelope.
The Post has already tracked down a lot of those misaddressed-envelope mistakes — each of which could still wind up invalidating that vote. This is a rolling disaster.
And what of the errors that don’t get caught before people have already voted?
These glitches, ironically, come from bungled efforts to make vote-by-mail easier. Does anyone have much confidence that New York — or any other state run by Democrats who support universal absentee voting — is taking enough precautions against illegal “ballot harvesting”? That’s where third-parties intercept the ballots for naive voters and fill them in for their candidates.
And it’s not just President Trump and his allies questioning the process.
City Councilman Jimmy Van Bramer, a progressive Democrat, told The Post, “People were already not trusting this process, and they were already not trusting the Board of Elections to count the ballot right.”

https://nypost.com/2020/09/29/growing-signs-that-mass-mail-in-voting-is-going-to-be-a-disaster/

Catfish

09-30-20, 03:41 PM

^ What do you do if Trump wins? Doubt the result?

August

09-30-20, 04:14 PM

^ What do you do if Trump wins? Doubt the result?

No, I will breathe a sigh of relief that the latest Democrat attempt to fix the election has failed.

mapuc

09-30-20, 04:30 PM

No, I will breathe a sigh of relief that the latest Democrat attempt to fix the election has failed.

....and what if he loses the election ?

Markus

August

09-30-20, 04:43 PM

....and what if he loses the election ?

Markus

It also depends what happens to the Senate but I will worry for my nation.

Onkel Neal

09-30-20, 04:48 PM

I'm doubting the result no matter who wins.

mapuc

09-30-20, 04:53 PM

Well my American friends

As I see it

An interesting time lies ahead of you.

Markus

Buddahaid

09-30-20, 05:40 PM

I'm doubting the result no matter who wins.

No kidding! :Kaleun_Cheers:

MaDef

09-30-20, 11:40 PM

I'm doubting the result no matter who wins.

Can you articulate a reason why?

Catfish

10-01-20, 08:18 AM

Reuters World News, September 1st, 2020:
"Exclusive: Russian operation masqueraded as right-wing news site to target U.S. voters - sources." (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-russia-disinformation-ex/exclusive-russian-operation-masqueraded-as-right-wing-news-site-to-target-u-s-voters-sources-idUSKBN26M5ND)

“[...] the overall strategy looks unchanged: energise Trump supporters, depress support for Biden, and target both sides with divisive and polarising messages,”

Works.

mapuc

10-01-20, 04:02 PM

Onkel Neal

10-01-20, 10:30 PM

Can you articulate a reason why?

Because it will likely be close. Because if it is close, there will be some cheating and fudging. On both sides. And because of the covid mess and mail in ballots, I don't have a lot of faith in the US Postal Service. It could be like 2000 all over again:

"How many mail in ballots are left to count?"

"How many do we need?"

But who knows, maybe Trumpy's recklessness will catch up with him (https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-adviser-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-covid-19-after-traveling-with-trump?ref=home) and Mike Pence will be the 11th hour candidate. Here's hoping!

Skybird

10-02-20, 02:16 AM

If Biden win the election...will the American see a miracle in the streets ?

Where there are riots and other things in the street before the result of the election is ready ....and a few second after Biden has won, it's suddenly silent.

Markus
Biden wins...? Trump already now delitimises the election, calls rightwing extremists to wait for further calls, he will declare himself winner, demand recounts, file lawfiles, raise doubts... And all his accomplices in ranks and offices will assist him.FF
In the end it will be the Supreme Court with 6 to 3 conservative judges, three of them being ultraconservative Trump nominees.

Jimbuna

10-02-20, 03:32 AM

Now that the POTUS and FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID-19 what possible consequence could there be for the election?

Rockstar

10-02-20, 04:00 AM

Now that the POTUS and FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID-19 what possible consequence could there be for the election?

an opportunity to bow out of the race and bring an end to this side show

Skybird

10-02-20, 04:10 AM

If he survives, he will boast even louder how harmless Corona is...

But the hope dies last. I would like to see Putins face, though.

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 04:43 AM

If he survives, he will boast even louder how harmless Corona is...

But the hope dies last. I would like to see Putins face, though.

Nice pun there Sky ... you can't hide your intentions of using that word. :hmmm:

Good thing Trump is not a member or you would be in big trouble with August and Jim :yep:

Skybird

10-02-20, 05:09 AM

What pun? That I would prefer a world without Trump is no secret. I strictly reject to rate the interests of 330 million citizens and a world with 8 billion as lower than the personal interest of one man with a ruinous character and highly destructive personality. The servility of many Americans towards their political office holders reminds of the relation between peasants and aristocratic noblemen, the blind trust in the system that many hold up, to me is pure naivety, and I do not share both. I thought this kind of blind obedience towards authorities and state institutions were just a German thing. Wrong was I.

Due to Trumps anti-corona agitation and politicising, tens of thousands more of Americans died who would not have needed to die. Hundreds of thousands more than inevitable got infected, with often desastrous consequences for their health and existence, due to the Trumpmans notorious agitation and obstructionism. It would only be fair and just if Trump now falls victim to what he has ridiculed and minimised and lied about all the time, and suffers the afte that he has brought about thosunds and thosuands by his iown decisions and his own political. Read that again: fair and just it would be. Fair and just.

Maybe its not kind to say that out loud, but I dont care. Many think so and think they must remain silent, for politeness. I care so much.

I also regretted that Bolsonare survived.

Onkel Neal

10-02-20, 06:33 AM

2020 just keeps getting better and better.

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 06:44 AM

2020 just keeps getting better and better.

Better than Bush vs Gore :up:

Better than Trump vs Clinton :up:

What's left? Biden gets the virus too? :o

Catfish

10-02-20, 06:49 AM

This time I want to see the terms of conditions of 2021 before i enter the new year :oops:

Bilge_Rat

10-02-20, 06:49 AM

Now that the POTUS and FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID-19 what possible consequence could there be for the election?

hard to say if he survives. Would voters on the fence be more inclined to vote for him?

more interesting discussion is what happens if, unfortunately, he dies before the election? I am guessing the contest would then be Pence vs Biden. Would Trump's untimely death give Pence a sympathy boost? maybe.

President Pence....has a nice ring to it. :ping:

p.s. my sympathies and hope for a speedy recovery to Trump and Melania. It is a horrible disease and I would not wish it on anyone. A friend of mine had it and she described it as the worst flu you have ever had multiplied by a factor of 10.

Jimbuna

10-02-20, 06:52 AM

Either way we should know in the next fortnight.

Skybird

10-02-20, 06:58 AM

This time I want to see the terms of conditions of 2021 before i enter the new year :oops:
:D Der war gut!

Skybird

10-02-20, 07:07 AM

Just saw some numbers. There is one undeniably good thing in Trump'S infection. The numbers have crashdived for him, and if it stays this way, the election will bag such a huge and clear victory for Biden that even Trump cannot fabricate any reasons to delay the recognition of his defeat or deligitimise the whoe election, or steal it by riots in the streets or whatever. The violence and chaos that is feared by not just a few, me included, has become much more unlikely, if the trend stays this way, I think.
https://www.welt.de/img/finanzen/mobile217036554/4287932077-coriginal-w1200/DWO-WI-US-Wetten-jb-jpg.jpg

u crank

10-02-20, 07:50 AM

ay the recognition of his defeat or deligitimise the whoe election, or steal it by riots in the streets or whatever. The violence and chaos that is feared by not just a few, me included, has become much more unlikely,

Who is rioting in the streets of America Skybird? Have you not been paying attention? Do you think they will stop if Biden wins?

Onkel Neal

10-02-20, 08:00 AM

This time I want to see the terms of conditions of 2021 before i enter the new year :oops:

:up: Yeah, but whats the alternative ?

Gerald

10-02-20, 08:48 AM

It may well be that this will be a rescue for Donald as some see him "normal" because he is vulnerable like everyone else to get C-19.

Skybird

10-02-20, 10:51 AM

Who is rioting in the streets of America Skybird? Have you not been paying attention? Do you think they will stop if Biden wins?
Who marched in the streets first in combat costumes and with rifles? Who was it who called armed right wing extremists by their "pride" and told them to stand ready for further - further somethings? Who was it who stormed a capitol house - or was it a court house? - with armed " militia men this summer, giving angry looks and showing off with their semiautomatic genital prothesis? Since when do you need these military kinds of rifles to shoot rabbits and mule deer and coyotes...? And what gives their owner the right to break the peacxe anbd auhtority of that official house and force their way in, fully armed?

Biden will not tell people to get their rifles out and flock together in the streets. ;)

Since some time now, blacks also arm themselves our media say, form armed guarding groups. After all what there has been over this summer, I can hardly point finger at them. They did not start this military parading thing. That came from the conservativesand right-wingers that Trump refuses to call by their real names: supremacists and Nazis.

The originator of this nasty side of things, is clearly to be named, and it were not the Biden camp or the left - they followed with that just later on. Its also not Biden who mysteriously indicates to extremist armed mobs to hold themselves "ready" for - for what? Day X...?

No, this nastiness has a clear origin and cause, and it sits in the White House and has provoked for this since many months, in words, in gestures, in remarks, in appeals, in suggestive messages. The riots of the plunderers that hijack the protests agaiunst polkcie violence, thats ordinary crime by social scum on big scale, but these parades of pseudo-military wannabe-militias - that are political extremists.

(There are criteria for when a milita actually is a legal militia ba American rules. I mentikjend them some weeks ago. A giovenror fo the state must have called them to life. They must obey governor'S orders and act by his commands. Thats part of the definition of a legal US militia. The proud boys that Trump rejects to distance himself from, sure as hell are not like that, for example.

Jimbuna

10-02-20, 11:08 AM

The BBC poll of polls has Biden ahead by 8%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53657174

u crank

10-02-20, 12:03 PM

Who marched in the streets first in combat costumes and with rifles?

The Portland riots have been going on for over 100 days. During those riots a self-described antifa supporter shot and killed a right-wing counter-protester.

Who was it who stormed a capitol house - or was it a court house? - with armed " militia men this summer, giving angry looks and showing off with their semiautomatic genital prothesis?

How many people were killed or injured during that event? How many arrested? How much property was destroyed? Look it up.

Biden will not tell people to get their rifles out and flock together in the street.

It may come as a surprise to you but the violent factions of BLM and Antifa probably don't like Joe Biden anymore than they like Trump. These people are anarchists and they only like one thing ... anarchy.

They did not start this military parading thing. That came from the conservativesand right-wingers that Trump refuses to call by their real names: supremacists and Nazis.

The idea that these people would have stayed home playing x-box in their parent's basement if they weren't tricked into going to a riot by rightwing activists is one of the dumbest accusations ever.

Aktungbby

10-02-20, 02:25 PM

The BBC poll of polls has Biden ahead by 8%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53657174let's hope it's sufficient to overcome The Donald's insatiable meglomaniacal coviding of high office with his Slovenian FLOTUS porn star!:O:

Skybird

10-02-20, 03:17 PM

Today, exactly 4 years ago:

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/782673397952094208

Joe Biden four years later, today:

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1312010736604979201?s=20

u crank

10-02-20, 03:30 PM

let's hope it's sufficient to overcome The Donald's insatiable meglomaniacal coviding of high office with his Slovenian FLOTUS porn star!:O:

What a disgusting thing to say about anybody's wife.

Catfish

10-02-20, 03:45 PM

What exactly is wrong in Aktung's statement? :hmmm:
^ Ah i see, love how humerous you are :haha:

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 03:49 PM

What a disgusting thing to say about anybody's wife.

Melania looks like a lady to me ... all have sinned :o

She's an ex-porn star :yep:

Catfish

10-02-20, 04:07 PM

Melania looks like a lady to me ... all have sinned :o Your decision, but "female" has not necessarily to do something with being a lady. She sure looks more sane and reasonable than her husband.
She's an ex-porn star :yep:
No she is not. Not back then, and certainly not now. She did some nude photographing, that is all.
But i am quite sure about why Trump dated her :03:

u crank

10-02-20, 04:12 PM

What exactly is wrong in Aktung's statement? :hmmm:

If I have to explain it to you ... I'd be wasting my time.

Skybird

10-02-20, 04:49 PM

After having gotten an antibody cocktail, he was brought to hospital now.

He is male. Age 74 (right?) . Has high cholesterine. Is obese (BMI 30). And is rumoured to have had a stroke. Thats what they call a high risk patient.

...

mapuc

10-02-20, 05:02 PM

I had to look that up, because the lastest news I read, was how tired he was while he and his wife was resting in some area of the white house.

Taking to the hospital...must mean it has gotten worst or to be prepared.

Markus

Cybermat47

10-02-20, 05:26 PM

The Portland riots have been going on for over 100 days. During those riots a self-described antifa supporter shot and killed a right-wing counter-protester.

Given that a right-wing counter-protester killed two protesters in Kenosha, I can’t say I believe that the far-right is any less dangerous than the far-left.

In fact, seeing as these far-left protests were started by people dying, and the Unite the Right protest in Charlottesville (which killed someone) were started by the removal of a statue of a guy who asked that no-one ever make a statue of him, I’d say they’re more volatile.

u crank

10-02-20, 06:39 PM

Given that a right-wing counter-protester killed two protesters in Kenosha, I can’t say I believe that the far-right is any less dangerous than the far-left.

I would be curious to know what exactly what you know (facts) about that incident and can you tell us those facts. You should be aware that video evidence of the incident is available online.

Onkel Neal

10-02-20, 06:51 PM

Given that a right-wing counter-protester killed two protesters in Kenosha, I can’t say I believe that the far-right is any less dangerous than the far-left.

I would like to respectfully contest that characterization. Just because you do not go along with the SJW/Antifa/BLM and you try to protect property from rioters and vandals does not make you a far-right. And he was not a counter-protester, from all accounts I have heard.

If rioting broke out in my home town and a friend asked me to help him guard his business, would I be a far-right counter-protester?

Maybe it depends on where you get your news?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oQlnihfxhU

Rockstar

10-02-20, 07:17 PM

Maybe it depends on where you get your news?

... our media say

https://media.giphy.com/media/26BRDHKnjgXuhjlde/giphy.gif

Cybermat47

10-02-20, 07:38 PM

I would like to respectfully contest that characterization. Just because you do not go along with the SJW/Antifa/BLM and you try to protect property from rioters and vandals does not make you a far-right.

Well, obviously not. If that was the case, I’d be far-right. But walking around and showing off a firearm (that was illegally owned) to a bunch of people who are scared of being shot isn’t exactly a de-escalation tactic.

I honestly have to ask - what’s going on with America? A cop obviously breaks the law, and that somehow led to more people being killed, businesses being destroyed, the President awkwardly standing outside a church holding up a bible, one of my country’s citizens being assaulted by police for being a journalist, and still no real police reform. Not to mention that the far-left and far-right are growing in size and filling up online echo chambers like that Stormfront website.

Rockstar

10-02-20, 07:44 PM

Professor Weinstein warned of the problems we are witnessing today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRIKJCKWla4

Buddahaid

10-02-20, 07:45 PM

Everybody in the US needs a big time out. Go to your rooms, turn off the news, lock the doors, build or paint something and come out in a month. Momma says....

Rockstar

10-02-20, 08:25 PM

FUD sells. Its like an addiction that keeps people on the needle.

Gerald

10-02-20, 11:56 PM

Too much misinformation and rumors that abound now and also in the past, which gives birth to Jackals who purposefully studies people who are weak and allow themselves to be influenced by great negativity, which is clear now, even before.

mapuc

10-03-20, 12:03 PM

Jimbuna

10-03-20, 12:33 PM

Additional 9 more who work or have visit the White House has been tested positive.

This information created another question.

If the worst thing should happen-the entire Government in The White house becomes incapacitated, due to corona infection.

Who will then take charge ?
Is it
House of representatives ?

Markus

Present line of succession
No. Office Current officer
1 Vice President Mike Pence (R)
2 Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi (D)
3 President Pro Tempore of the Senate Chuck Grassley (R)
4 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (R)

Aktungbby

10-03-20, 12:39 PM

Present line of succession

4 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (R)Whom even the Pope refused to have an audience with...at least the Dominus Apostlicus understands the American concept of...sepration of Church and State!:haha:

em2nought

10-03-20, 01:51 PM

If the worst thing should happen-the entire Government in The White house becomes incapacitated, due to corona infection.

Markus

Even half dead Trump would still be more productive than a democrat. :03:

Buddahaid

10-03-20, 03:03 PM

A half dead Trump would still smell as bad and still be as obnoxious, but hey, his hair would still be fabulous.:arrgh!:

Mr Quatro

10-03-20, 03:24 PM

Everybody in the US needs a big time out. Go to your rooms, turn off the news, lock the doors, build or paint something and come out in a month. Momma says....

Gee after such good advice I thought there was hope for you Buddahaid :yep:

A half dead Trump would still smell as bad and still be as obnoxious, but hey, his hair would still be fabulous.:arrgh!:

and then you blow it :D

Mr Quatro

10-03-20, 03:28 PM

Whom even the Pope refused to have an audience with...at least the Dominus Apostlicus understands the American concept of...sepration of Church and State!:haha:

You read it all wrong Aktung :oops:

plus you spelled separation wrong :yep:

The Pope didn't want to get involved in American politics, but he did want to protect his Catholic church in China. They would've thought the Pope had of abandoned them if he went against China's snuggling moves to entice Italy into being friends again.

Aktungbby

10-03-20, 03:57 PM

You read it all wrong Aktung :oops:

plus you spelled separation wrong :yep:

The Pope didn't want to get involved in American politics, but he did want to protect his Catholic church in China. They would've thought the Pope had of abandoned them if he went against China's snuggling moves to entice Italy into being friends again. Sorry: I meant 'sepration'. Considerin' the snugglin' done to Urghar mosques: 8000 seen destroyed by satellite in the Chinese slave/re-education belt; the snugglin along the Indian-Sino frontier; and the snugglin' over Taiwan's airspace, now that Hong Kong and helot state of Tibet are completely snuggled I'm not overly optomistic about the basilica/cathedral near-my-god-to-thee aspects when Taiwan is finally permanently übersnuggled....and don't overlook the humongous 700+ Sino fishing fleet also seen on satellite in N.Korean waters snugglin excess squid while NK's own fishermen wash up dead of starvation from ghostboats in the Sea of Japan; probably on a cash-for-nukes sanction-avoidance arrângement! :x:cry::dead: We're not at WWIII yet, jus' WW 2.5.:ping::ping:

mapuc

10-03-20, 04:52 PM

Present line of succession
No. Office Current officer
1 Vice President Mike Pence (R)
2 Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi (D)
3 President Pro Tempore of the Senate Chuck Grassley (R)
4 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (R)

Thank you Jim.

So if I read your answer correctly Vice President Mike Pence would be a kind of one man ruler - As I wrote the entire government is infected with corona and are in quarantine at home or in the hospital.

Of course M.P as one man ruler is not possible, so who will take those minister who's in hospital, who shall replace them ?
(I just can't get this sentence correct-so it's ok to misunderstand it)

Markus