Here we go again-Ukraine once again [Archive] - Page 47

Dargo

06-24-23, 05:45 AM

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin has no intention of backing down. He says this in response to Putin's speech in which the Russian president called him a traitor - without, incidentally, uttering Prigozhin's name.

In a statement, Prigozhin now seeks a head-on confrontation with Putin: 'No one will turn himself in at the request of the president, the FSB or anyone else, because we do not want the country to live on in corruption, deceit and bureaucracy.' Putin had called on Wagner fighters to lay down their arms. Whereas earlier Prigozhin said he was not out to overthrow Putin and his regime, these words do seem to imply that he is pursuing something similar. Moreover, this is the first time he has spoken out directly against Putin. Prigozhin's harsh criticism previously focused only on the army leadership and the defence ministry.

According to Governor Alexander Goesev of Russia's Voronezh region, "necessary operational and combat measures" are being taken in his region. The area, which borders northeastern Ukraine, is said to have been invaded by Wagner. Earlier today, Russia's National Anti-Terrorism Committee said measures would be taken in the region.

Voronezh is located on the important M4 highway. That runs from Rostov-on-Don to Moscow. Russian citizens are urged to avoid the M4. Roadblocks were reportedly set up by the Russian army at several places.

What is certain is that Wagner is present in Rostov and that Wagner boss Prigozhin has announced he will march on Moscow if his demand that Russian Defence Minister Shoygoe and commander Gerasimov meet him in Rostov is not met.

Putin called the President of Kazakhstan Tokayev. Tokayev stated that the events taking place are an internal matter of Russia. This was reported in the press service of the President of Kazakhstan. https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1672554234691178496 Karma? :D

A column of mercenaries from the Wagner group has moved past the city of Voronezh, some 500 kilometres south of Moscow, an eyewitness tells Reuters news agency. Among other things, the column was said to be moving in an armoured vehicle. The report has not yet been confirmed by independent sources, but is in line with other reports placing the Wagner group now far north of Rostov-on-Don. Earlier, a source within the Russian security services reported to Reuters news agency that the Wagner group had taken military facilities in Voronezh. That report, too, has not yet been independently verified. Images are also circulating of a Russian helicopter being shot at near Voronezh, presumably by a Wagner missile system.

Ukrainian President Zelensky argues that President Putin brought Wagner boss Prigozhin's rebellion upon himself. "Anyone who chooses the bad path destroys himself," he writes in his first personal reaction to the situation in Russia. "For a long time, Russia has used propaganda to cover up its own weakness and the government's stupidity. Now there is so much chaos that no lie can hide it anymore."

Zelensky writes on Twitter that it is clear that Russia is weak. "And the longer Russia has troops and mercenaries in our country, the more chaos, pain and problems the country itself will go through later. That is also clear." According to the Ukrainian president, Putin has sent hundreds of thousands into the war and he and his allies are now entrenching themselves in the Moscow region. Zelensky also cited Putin's reference to revolution year 1917. According to Zelensky, Putin has always feared a repeat of that history, but cannot do anything to prevent such an outcome.

https://i.postimg.cc/pXF47Jcp/needaride.jpg

ChefÂ’s Special - Documenting Equipment Losses During The 2023 Wagner Group Mutiny
This list only includes captured and destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photo or videographic evidence is available. Therefore, the amount of equipment captured and destroyed is likely significantly higher than recorded here. Losses claims by fighterbomber, a Telegram channel operated by a Russian Air Force pilot, are also considered as sufficient evidence of Russian aerial losses. Aircraft and helicopters captured by Wagner at Rostov-on-Don North are currently not included in this list. Civilian vehicles and derelict equipment are not included in this list.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/06/chefs-special-documenting-equipment.html

The Prigozhin Coup seems pretty damn well organized
OK we are about 12 hours into what is clearly an attempt by Yevgeny Prigozhin to topple the leadership of the Russian military (and very possibly the Russian government). This all started with an announcement by Prigozhin yesterday that the Russian army had launched a missile attack on a Wagner baseÂ—and it has snowballed exponentially since then... At first this attempt by Prigozhin seemed almost impulsive and bound to fail (and it still mightÂ—and probably should if the Russian army stays loyal to Putin). However, what does seem to be the case now is that this is a well-planned operation that has been a while in the making and has a greater chance of success that certainly I would have thought yesterday. If you look at the timing, the placement of Russian forces, the areas that Prigozhin has seized, and the fact that Putin was clearly caught of guard, you can see this. If you dont mind, I thought I would talk a little bit about why I think it is well organized and could succeed.

Timing: This is a perfect time for Prigozhin to take this risk. Almost all of Wagner has pulled out of Ukraine over the last month and was back in Russia itself (or overseas). This means that he has a ready supply of rested forces (some with real combat experience). Ive seen regular estimates of 20k to 30k Wagner personnel who are now under his authority, and they seem (despite all of his constant complaints) to be pretty well equipped. I mean, they have already shot down at least one Russian army helicopter and one aircraft. This does not happen by accident. https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/the-prigozhin-coup-seems-pretty-damn?sd=pf

Key to success is the refusal by the police and military, as occurred in Rostov, to restore order and defend the Putin regime. "Why does the country support us? Because we are taking a step towards justice," Prigozhin said in a message on Telegram. "We entered Rostov and without a single shot being fired, we took control of the military headquarters building."

We might actually see Wagner fighters in Moscow during the evening! Looks like this operation is called "Moscow in 3 days"

Jimbuna

06-24-23, 05:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyiy-3hwyE

Exocet25fr

06-24-23, 08:11 AM

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

Onkel Neal

06-24-23, 08:33 AM

While you all are giddy at the thought of a coup in Russia, keep in mind Russia has over 5,800 nuclear warheads spread throughout the country, and a civil war would make it very easy for some of those weapons to "fall of the grid" so to speak.

Yeah, this could be bad... nothing we can do but hope.

ET2SN

06-24-23, 10:12 AM

Yeah, this could be bad... nothing we can do but hope.

Oh, for Pete's sake.. You've had over a year to build and stock your bomb shelter. :nope:

:Kaleun_Goofy:

:O:

Dargo

06-24-23, 10:15 AM

Oh, for Pete's sake.. You've had over a year to build and stock your bomb shelter. :nope:

:Kaleun_Goofy:

:O:A bomb shelter will not protect you from a nuclear winter.

ET2SN

06-24-23, 10:25 AM

That's why you buy some train tickets to Australia. :up:

ET2SN

06-24-23, 10:34 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5U037pgp_M

:hmmm:

mapuc

06-24-23, 10:42 AM

Just heard that Putin has declared martial law in Russia
This was mentioned in Denys Davydov livestream some minutes ago.

Markus

mapuc

06-24-23, 10:50 AM

That's why you buy some train tickets to Australia. :up:

Your comment made me recall Nevil Shute and his book On the Beach

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(novel)

Markus

Jimbuna

06-24-23, 11:40 AM

Not surprised but there are now reports circulating that Putin has flown out of Moscow and is headed to his official residence.

His puppet Dmitry Peskov is denying this and is adamant he is still in the Kremlin which adds weight to my belief he has in fact left the Kremlin.

Onkel Neal

06-24-23, 01:03 PM

Oh, for Pete's sake.. You've had over a year to build and stock your bomb shelter. :nope:

:Kaleun_Goofy:

:O:

:haha::shucks: Yeah, that's true!

A bomb shelter will not protect you from a nuclear winter.

Nuclear winter won't last forever, a year or two at most.

mapuc

06-24-23, 01:45 PM

According to the news here. Wagner and Russian army should have come to an agreement and Wagner who's around 200 km from Moscow are turning back to their bases. It was Lukashenko who was the negotiator between Wagner and Russian Army(Putin)

This should be unconfirmed.

Markus

Von Due

06-24-23, 03:07 PM

The beeb reports that Prigozhin has made a beeline for Belarus after halting the advance on Moscow. Bets against him falling to his death from a basement window in Minsk?

August

06-24-23, 03:51 PM

The beeb reports that Prigozhin has made a beeline for Belarus after halting the advance on Moscow. Bets against him falling to his death from a basement window in Minsk?

He went without his troops so you may be right.

Platapus

06-24-23, 04:06 PM

Your comment made me recall Nevil Shute and his book On the Beach

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(novel)

Markus

That is a seriously unfun book. :(

Moonlight

06-24-23, 04:49 PM

Its handbags at forty paces, it will all fizzle out and they'll get back to the frontline and they can keep on sniping at each other, much safer than trying to avoid a real bullet.

Armistead

06-24-23, 06:11 PM

This makes no sense, I think it's all a ruse of some sort.

Skybird

06-24-23, 06:27 PM

While all this was happening, I sas wandering 35km in the Teutoburger Forest region, everything hurts and I feel more dead than alive. :haha:

Skybird

06-24-23, 07:53 PM

Dargo

06-24-23, 08:00 PM

I told you 2 day ago, he looked isolated to me. Why he held back, you ask? First supplies, Wagner is not selfsustaining, but depends on the Russian army. Second, air power. The moment his troops sit still, the air force will and did take the invitation. That they shot down a few machines, may mean that the air force had not already adapted to the new situation. That would not stay forever so.He made a mistake yes but if you can travel with all kind of arms and nobody stops you can make deals he will have its African colonies full of gold and diamonds. Putin has a problem, a lot of his mafia boss's have seen him in a weak position and those sharks gone plan now to be Godfather. As far as the army and air force, are they just going to forget the humiliation of this day, guess not. Today was a shock to the system, nobody will trust each other again.

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 03:08 AM

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 03:50 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCiO-pYBrRs

Skybird

06-25-23, 06:35 AM

Moonlight

06-25-23, 07:14 AM

If the main Wagner forces have left the front lines why haven't the Ukrainians taken advantage of that fact?, anybody got any idea of just what the hell is going on down there?.

Dargo

06-25-23, 07:15 AM

Is Progozhin going to Belarus on,ly with is perosnal escort, or are all Wagners (=3 regiments, plus some) with him? If the latter, then his presence there might be a concern for Ukraine.

However, in the end whatever Prigozhin planned and hoped to acchieve, he failed. And he has now at the latest his head at the top of Putin's to-get-killed list.For now it looks only with his personal guard, the regiment(s) said to be back in Ukraine or near the border of. It’s not clear what exactly he will do in Belarus, or how long he will remain there. Prigozhin also appears to have some powerful figures invested in him, including Yury Kovalchuk, a close friend of Putin and billionaire considered one of the most influential figures in Russia. The independent outlet Meduza cited a source close to the Kremlin last November who described Prigozhin as a “tool” of Yury Kovalchuk and his brother Mikhail. The Kovalchuk brothers were said to have partnered with Prigozhin on launching a “patriotic” and “anti-elitist” political movement that could eventually grow into a party. If he meets window or tea, it will not be now or in a short time may be that Moscow recognized the potential for Prigozhin being turned into a martyr if he were to go out in a blaze of glory in the midst of his or right after this rebellion.Prigozhin’s rebellion — or insurrection — is a watershed moment for Russia and Putin. It is an unprecedented challenge to Putin’s rule and, of far greater consequence, to Putinism — Putin’s personal system of semi-totalitarian state control. The repercussions of recent days’ events will reverberate throughout Russia for months and years to come, regardless of their outcome.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/24/prigozhins-armed-rebellion-will-have-lasting-consequences-for-russia-putin-and-the-ukraine-war-a81623
It is too late for Putin and his system, the damage is already done.

Skybird

06-25-23, 07:29 AM

Speculative idea from the dark back corner of my mind: its was all staged to get Wagner forces unsuspiciously into Belarus - and then using them to start a coup to overthrow the Lukashenko regime.

Dargo

06-25-23, 07:33 AM

If the main Wagner forces have left the front lines why haven't the Ukrainians taken advantage of that fact?, anybody got any idea of just what the hell is going on down there?.Ukrainian forces went on the attack along two parts of the front yesterday, reportedly gaining ground. Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Hanna Maljar claimed that Ukrainian attacks north and southwest of Bakhmut were successful. On the night from Friday to Saturday, the Ukrainians made some ground gains south of Orichiv, according to the US think tank Institute for the Study of War based on Russian bloggers.

But seeing how easy it is to drive to Moscow because Russia has only a few reserves in Russia, Ukraine could outflank the Russian defense lines via Russia to attack the main supply lines and the Russian defense lines from behind. Ukraine’s victory will be through that factions in Russia will go to war with themselves, rather than a straight battlefield victory. Ukraine’s task is to make it look like Russia will lose in such a way creates power imbalances between different factions, this is what they did with Bahkmut.

Dargo

06-25-23, 07:44 AM

Speculative idea from the dark back corner of my mind: its was all staged to get Wagner forces unsuspiciously into Belarus - and then using them to start a coup to overthrow the Lukashenko regime.Putin was so impressed of "Operation Moscow in 1 day" that he send him to Belarus to start "Operation Kyiv in 1 hour"!

To summarize: Prigozhin, Lukashenko and nuclear weapons in Belarus, what could possible go wrong?

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 08:10 AM

Can't decide if this is a coincidence or not but the two people Prigozhin was insistent on seeing personally, defence minister Shoigu and chief of general staff Gerasimov neither of whom have been seen since yesterday.

Jumped before being thrown overboard perhaps?

Skybird

06-25-23, 08:15 AM

Putin was so impressed of "Operation Moscow in 1 day" that he send him to Belarus to start "Operation Kijv in 1 hour"!

No, the speculative idea of mine is that Prigozhin acted on order by Putin. Putin wanted to get Wagner into Belarus, without raising Lukashenko's supsicion.

Just a speculation.

https://www.russlandjournal.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/matroschka-637x477.jpg

Dargo

06-25-23, 08:18 AM

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 08:20 AM

For any 'revolution' to have any chance of success it would need the broad support of the civilian population.

Skybird

06-25-23, 08:23 AM

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/militaer-experte-analyisiert-prigoschin-ist-uneliminierbar-ein-kopfschuss-ist-fuer-putin-keine-option-mehr_id_197369825.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Skybird

06-25-23, 08:27 AM

For any 'revolution' to have any chance of success it would need the broad support of the civilian population.
Which by itself would still not be a sufficient condition. The many corrupt members of the military leadership must be prepared to act against their interests, which are expressed in their corruption. How likely that is? I dont know. Not very, I fear. I mean their military is what it is since many centuries: a corrupt gangsterhood that gives less than dirt for its soldiers.

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 08:30 AM

I honestly couldn't give two hoots for Putin but what does concern me is the huge nuclear arsenal they have and what they might do with it.

Skybird

06-25-23, 08:33 AM

Yes. And I also wonder if we will see a covert Wagner build-up against Ukraine in Belarus. A new second front in the North.

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 08:41 AM

I can't see Prigozhin wanting to help Putin at all but if Wagner are forced into joining the Russian army then that could be a whole different ball game.

mapuc

06-25-23, 08:52 AM

Meanwhile:
There seems to be a hush-hush meeting between Russia and China

So it says in the headlines here

Edit
Found the English version
https://www.reuters.com/world/russian-diplomat-flies-beijing-putin-faces-heat-home-2023-06-25/
End edit

Markus

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 09:12 AM

Not heard much of the Nova Kakhovka Dam lately but this is the aftermath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NdwB-AozW4

Skybird

06-25-23, 09:21 AM

Ich glaub ich spinne: is what I called my private absurd "speculation" on the previous page in the end - the truth...? FOCUS just brought this article:

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/die-ganze-geschichte-wirkt-inszeniert-alles-nur-ein-riesenbluff-experten-bringen-gewagte-theorie-ins-spiel_id_197379436.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp (https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/die-ganze-geschichte-wirkt-inszeniert-alles-nur-ein-riesenbluff-experten-bringen-gewagte-theorie-ins-spiel_id_197379436.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

Ukraine, be on your guard in the North.

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/147729477/de/foto/russische-babuschka-kopftuch-oder-matroschka-puppen-im-weitere-puppen.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=o_uniT5d1cj4Dw_gxmytQ2p9QUrsWSdBMjflX4Wxk60=

Skybird

06-25-23, 09:27 AM

Not heard much of the Nova Kakhovka Dam lately but this is the aftermath.

They may not be able to keep the occupied territories, but they can cripple Ukrainian agriculture to a terrible degree for generations to come. The lack of water, and the intoxication of the farming soils will make Russian exports of grains the more important for the third world. And that is what this war also is about: to eliminate unwanted Ukrainian competition to the Russian almost-monopoly.

Dargo

06-25-23, 09:43 AM

Skybird

06-25-23, 09:54 AM

How many Ukranian troops are bound at Bakhmut - and north of Kyiv? :03:
There are Russian nukies now said to be inside Belarus. Tacticals.

Dargo

06-25-23, 10:04 AM

How many Ukranian troops are bound at Bakhmut - and north of Kyiv? :03:
There are Russian nukies now said to be inside Belarus. Tacticals.There are 300K Russians in south of Ukraine that failed in 3 offensives there will be no other from them, so I am sure a couple of regiments can not reach Kyiv oh they can do Moscow, but that was done without any resistance a Saturday stroll north Ukraine is prepared for an invasion from Belarus.

Aktungbby

06-25-23, 11:57 AM

I see Lukashenko is taking the credit for Prigozhin to agree to stop his operation. In exchange, Russian authorities dropped all charges against the mercenaries.

Several media clarified that Putin endorsed his intervention.

Then the band played 'Believe it if you like'sanctuary in Belorussia?? :doh::ping::ping::hmmm::nope:Let's hope former chef Prigozhin has the sense to stay away from hotel balconies in Minsk during his sojourn in Putin's #1 ally Lukashenko's backyard...?:timeout::oops::dead:

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 12:11 PM

sanctuary in Belorussia?? :doh::ping::ping::hmmm::nope:Let's hope former chef Prigozhin has the sense to stay away from hotel balconies in Minsk during his sojourn in Putin's #1 ally Lukashenko's backyard...?:timeout::oops::dead:

Precisely! :)

Catfish

06-25-23, 12:13 PM

I don't quite get why Prigosomewhatzhin should stay away from windows.
I have no sympathy for any of them.

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 12:44 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4cQGXAK4E

Dargo

06-25-23, 12:48 PM

After Wagner shot down 8 aircraft and killed at least 13 Russian pilots Andrey Kartapolov, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense said “They didn’t offend anyone, they didn’t break anything,” No one has the slightest claim to them - neither the Rostov resudents nor the military personnel of the Southern Military District and the law enforcement. So what are their questions? There are no complaints against them." When asked if the Wagner PMC could be banned, Kartapolov said: “Why should it be banned? Here, after all, all questions are for the PMC's head. As Stalin said children are not responsible for their parents' actions. The one who raised the rebellion must answer." Kartapolov added that the Defense Ministry and the General Staff need to think about how to make sure that the potential of the "Wagnerites" is used "to the maximum, but for peaceful purposes." https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1672993177437913089 :o

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 12:52 PM

Vladimir Putin is increasing airline charges to use Russian airspace by a fifth as he scrambles to raise hundreds of millions of dollars more for the war against Ukraine.

Dargo

06-25-23, 01:03 PM

Vladimir Putin is increasing airline charges to use Russian airspace by a fifth as he scrambles to raise hundreds of millions of dollars more for the war against Ukraine.So he tries to fill his pocket with people that want to get out under draft to win a war?

Jimbuna

06-25-23, 01:11 PM

No, as far as I'm aware the charge is against non Russian airlines.

Skybird

06-25-23, 01:18 PM

I don't quite get why Prigosomewhatzhin should stay away from windows.
I have no sympathy for any of them.What...? Is there not even a single window in big wide Russia you could live with - not even the colourful artful ones in their basilikas?

em2nought

06-25-23, 01:19 PM

If Brandon gets into too much more trouble I'm guessing they're going to have to turn this into WW3 to keep us distracted. :/\\!!

Dargo

06-25-23, 01:34 PM

On 29 April 2023, Prigozhin gave an interview saying they haven't thought about marching towards Moscow, although "it's an interesting thought." From what we know now, their march was already being planned. https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1673018840811274240

Blunder of the FSB they did not pick this up.

Skybird

06-25-23, 04:05 PM

Blunder of the FSB they did not pick this up.
Or they did.

Wagner marched on Moscow and I think it was expected there would be military resistance and these units then changing sides. They expected to grow in strength while aprpoahcign Moscow. But this was not the case. No regular army units joined them, no high military ranks left their hiding and changed sides.

This does not mean they are loyal. It means only they are opportunistic. So for the FSB as well, possibly. Not warning the Gremlin in the Kreml and then seeing what happens.

Prigozhin miscalculated. He stumbled not about loyal cadres, but cowardly, opportunistic cadres.

Not that we must regret it. He is not one bit better than Putin.

MaDef

06-25-23, 09:54 PM

What...? Is there not even a single window in big wide Russia you could live with - not even the colourful artful ones in their basilikas?

Don't you mean basilica's? A basilika is a collection of laws from the Byzantine empire. Just sayin.:03:

Skybird

06-26-23, 12:35 AM

Don't you mean basilica's? A basilika is a collection of laws from the Byzantine empire. Just sayin.:03:
I was pulling his leg. But is it lost in translation.? A "Basilika" is German for a certain kind of church buildings.

Catfish

06-26-23, 02:54 AM

^ oh i instantly got it, the leg still hurts :D

In german a Basilika (english basilica i guess) is the successor of big roman market halls, court houses and meeting halls that were called basilicas; their design would later be used for the architecture of the first churches with their central and side aisles. So the name stuck..

Had not heard of the byzantine law code with the same (and greek!) name before, thanks :up:

Skybird

06-26-23, 03:48 AM

Good analysis of the what and why of the 24th.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/politik-transparent-von-thomas-jaeger-warum-putin-den-aufstand-nicht-stoppte-obwohl-er-genau-wusste-was-passiert_id_197396045.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 03:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-mwPMMQPg

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 04:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFOTXSg-_pc

Onkel Neal

06-26-23, 07:39 AM

A bomb shelter will not protect you from a nuclear winter.

Time maybe for a little purge-eroo?

MaDef

06-26-23, 08:26 AM

I was pulling his leg. But is it lost in translation.? A "Basilika" is German for a certain kind of church buildings.

^ oh i instantly got it, the leg still hurts :D

In german a Basilika (english basilica i guess) is the successor of big roman market halls, court houses and meeting halls that were called basilicas; their design would later be used for the architecture of the first churches with their central and side aisles. So the name stuck..

Had not heard of the byzantine law code with the same (and greek!) name before, thanks :up:
I don't know, that's the German word for it. In English it is spelled with a "c" instead of a "k". So in English if you spell the work with a "k", you are referring to a set of laws that predates the Catholic Church by 922 years.

Besides, I like to lurk around under the layer, then pop up and fire off a salvo just to keep you on your toes. :D

Skybird

06-26-23, 09:13 AM

I don't know, that's the German word for it. In English it is spelled with a "c" instead of a "k". So in English if you spell the work with a "k", you are referring to a set of laws that predates the Catholic Church by 922 years.

It apparently means both. I just checked three online dictionaries, and they all translate "Basilika" (the church building) as "basilica".

And I just checked further, German Wikipedia: its like I just said: the term refers both to the Roman-catholic construction type for a church as well as to the "Basiliken" (always plural), which were a canon of byzantine law codes, also named as Imperial Books (translated from the German).

Ever heard of Saint Peter's Basilica in Rome...? ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_Basilica

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 09:49 AM

Saturday's rebellion by Wagner mercenaries was “a challenge to its stability”, Russia's prime minister has said.

Mikhail Mishustin insisted Russia must remain united behind President Vladimir Putin.

Moscow's defence minister Sergei Shoigu is shown on state TV visiting troops fighting in Ukraine - it is not clear when it was taken.

Wagner mercenary group chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, had demanded Shoigu's removal and described him as evil.

Prigozhin agreed to leave Russia for Belarus after calling off his troops - his current whereabouts are unknown.

Russia media have reported the criminal case into Prigozhin is still open despite the Kremlin saying charges would be dropped.

The mutiny was a direct challenge to Russian President Vladimir Putin and has revealed "cracks" in his leadership, the US says.

Aktungbby

06-26-23, 10:20 AM

...my secret sources have revealed that Yvegney Pregozhsin is wearing his base-jumping parachute...24/7 and is ensconced in the the top floor of the Hilton Minsk.:O:

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 10:22 AM

I've heard he constantly wears a bungee cord.

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 10:25 AM

BREAKING: Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin has made it clear that he didn't target Putin when he declared his troops would march on Moscow, saying: "We didn't march to overthrow Russia's leadership."

In his 11-minute video message, he says: "The aim of the march was to avoid destruction of Wagner and to hold to account the officials who through their unprofessional actions have committed a massive number of errors".

He says Wagner regrets "they had to hit Russian aviation" and they turned around "to avoid spilling blood of Russian soldiers."

Aktungbby

06-26-23, 10:32 AM

wears a bungee cord...great minds think alike! :yeah:I almost got a job on the security/suicide prevention detail of the Golden Gate Bridge by suggesting "a bungee-cord concession "to let 'em try it once", when asked what I could contribute by the interview panel. The thought of 02;00 duty on a Pacific storm-ravaged bridge made me eschew the job offer and a second interview invite...:hmmm:

Jimbuna

06-26-23, 12:27 PM

Hungary for the second time have blocked an allocation of 500 million euros from the European Peace Fund to Ukraine.

They are apparently prepared to change their mind if and when the Ukrainians take OTP, the largest Hungarian bank, off the list of international sponsors of the war.

Which begs the question, "How did they end up on said list in the first place"?

Skybird

06-26-23, 02:41 PM

I've heard he constantly wears a bungee cord.
I heard the cord they gave him is two floors too long.

Cause some Wagners are not happy with their Piggyson:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66023631

mapuc

06-26-23, 03:32 PM

It's not only lots of expert you see and hear them telling about the war or Putins health

There's also a lot of videos floating on YT.

I take these videos with a ton of salt, as I do with these experts.

Markus

Dargo

06-26-23, 03:38 PM

President Putin responded to the failed uprising by the Wagner mercenary army last Saturday in a televised speech.
He did not mention the name of Wagner leader Prigozhin. In the about five-minute speech, which was recorded earlier, Putin again called the Wagner leaders traitors, enemies and neo-Nazis who wanted to destroy Russian society. According to Putin, they knew the mutiny was a hopeless mission. Its "unanimous rejection by society" was decisive, Putin also said. At the same time, he thanked Wagner mercenaries for their efforts in the war against Ukraine. "They proved their courage, liberated the Donbas and fought for the country," Putin claimed. He also said they avoided bloodshed by turning right around before Moscow. Wagner's mercenaries who want to do so will go to Belarus, Putin said. Those who do not want to can sign a contract with the Russian army, which will take over authority over all private armies from 1 July. They may also return to their families, the Russian president said.

Very weak speech in my view.

Jimbuna

06-27-23, 04:08 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L622EZfQtaE

Jimbuna

06-27-23, 04:12 AM

Skybird

06-27-23, 04:57 AM

Jimbuna

06-27-23, 06:09 AM

There are reports that the Russians are returning to the positions that were flooded as a result of the explosion of the Kakhovka dam, and are trying to set up mortar positions.

So it's definitely not one sided it would appear.

Dargo

06-27-23, 11:48 AM

I doubt many Wagners will fight for the regular army. And Putin still needs Wagner, in Syria and other African places. Using them still in Ukraine however indeed seems risky.

Question is to what degree Wagner has or can become more independent form logistical support from the defence ministry.

The rebellion in the first seems to have been due to Schoigu's attempt to effectively dissolve Wagner.The members of Wagner see Prigozjin as their czar, he pays them good and on time they also have better equipment than the regular Russian soldier. His Wagner soldiers are still in Ukraine as far as we know, and Wagner now seems too big to simply disband. The mercenary army is also an essential part of the Russian invasion force in Ukraine. Wagner, moreover, is deeply intertwined with the Russian military and intelligence services. Many mercenaries are former commandos, but there is also close cooperation beyond that: Wagner shares its largest base, in Molkin, with military intelligence. Much of the Wagner money flowing in from around the world, meanwhile, still passes through his hands, and as long as it flows, the Wagner group is much more than just a group of mercenaries. Money is power, even for Prigozhin and for Wagner.

The military equipment of the Wagner Group will be transferred to the Russian army. This was reported by the Russian Defense Ministry to Russian state news agency Tass, but has not yet been confirmed elsewhere. According to Tass, preparations are under way for the transfer of "heavy military equipment to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation". I do not believe this what Putin regime is doing is trying to extinguish the fires, but this fire is also in the Russian army in Ukraine mid level officers and below are more on the side of Wagner than their own leadership their only protest is now delay order or state they never received them this can cause huge problem in supplying the front.

Putin loses one of the most important weapons: time
One of the most important weapons Vladimir Putin thought he had in his hands against Ukraine and his Western partners has been taken out of his hands. Time. However great the repression Putin now unleashes on his own country, it is no longer so certain which will last longer: the war or Putin's rule. What effect do the dramatic developments in Russia, which began on Friday with Prigozhin's mutiny, have on the war in Ukraine? As with all questions about the future, the answer is unknown. But if you look at the strategic parameters of the war, they herald a crucial change. Until now, analysts assumed that the clock was one of Vladimir Putin's main weapons. Now they are asking the opposite question: how long can Russia sustain this war itself? Three players are critical to the outcome of this war: Russia, Ukraine and the Western countries supporting Kyiv. The most underestimated of these three was (and is) Ukraine, whose people have shown the will to resist from day 1, helped by a course-setting president. The West also surprised itself and President Putin with a resolute, united response and a steady flow of weapons.

Russia, the third player and instigator of the violence against Ukraine, is the hardest to fathom - because it is not a free country with a free press or free elections. Authoritarian ruled countries often look stable from the outside, but quite often turn out to be imposing structures that mask internal rot well. That makes their stability unpredictable. As this newspaper wrote just after the second invasion began: 'Autocrats are supreme, but that power can drain away just like that'. So it was always taken into account that the war could have consequences for Russia and neighboring Belarus. But even if the war led to major tensions, when would they manifest themselves? It could be tomorrow, or 10 years from now. And so this remained one of the 'known unknown' factors of this war.

Putin's speech on Saturday put an end to that speculation. That Putin felt threatened was already clear from his salutation. He addressed 'citizens of Russia, the personnel of the armed forces, the bodies responsible for public order, special services, the fighters and commanders'. He spoke of an 'attack in the back of our country and our people'. His speech was a warning not only to Wagner or Prigozhin, but to all members of the security organs and the armed forces. Of their loyalty he was apparently not assured. Of the soldiers, this was already known. The same appears to be true of Russian citizens, who were divided but mostly positive towards Prigozhin's troops in Rostov. The apathy of the general public so far is not surprising, given the repression of dissent and the climate of ubiquitous state propaganda. But it has long been clear that the 'elite' are unhappy with the war. It is bad for business, isolating Russia and destroying Russia's economic model (importing Western technology in exchange for exporting raw materials). Recent events break the front of unity that the Kremlin and state propaganda carefully guarded. Prigozhin's outburst, in which he undermined the entire cause of the war ('genocide committed against Russians in eastern Ukraine') and traded it for greed on the part of the army leadership and the special services, was the latest in a series of criticisms of the army leadership, also well-reviewed in Russia. Although Putin remained unnamed in these, it was clear that some of these struck at him.

For this reason, some have long seen Prigozhin's performance as evidence that Putin's omnipotence was apparently subject to erosion. Why else - other than out of necessity - would he have allowed such developments to fester for months? What Russian-American journalist and writer Masha Gessen touted earlier - 'Putin losing monopoly on political opinion and action' - suddenly came to the surface in recent days. Russia's newspapers, which are tight-lipped about the 'special military operation', also offer a brief glimpse of public opinion formation. Between the lines, as BBC's Steve Rosenberg showed on Monday, the incongruities of Putin's actions are pointed out, although the scenario of the restoration, however implausible - Putin as 'savior of the fatherland' - is also being written in abundance.

It is too early to speculate much about the battlefield military effects of what happened, except that they will have a negative impact on already poor Russian morale (why get shot in a war fought between factions fighting among themselves?) and a positive one on Ukrainian morale. This too is a strategic effect: not only Ukrainians, but also Western countries supporting Ukraine, will be further strengthened in their resolve now that they see that the grand invasion of Ukraine can turn like a military boomerang against its instigators. Putin will want to convince his audiences inside and outside Russia that he will emerge stronger from this crisis. A repressive version of the fairy tale of the emperor's new clothes lies ahead. What he cannot erase is that he suffered another defeat this weekend, including in the war against Ukraine. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/poetin-verliest-een-van-de-belangrijkste-wapens-de-tijd~b97d0fdb/

Prigozhin's rebellion did not turn out to be the gift Ukraine was hoping for. But at a crucial moment, that uprising reminded everyone in Europe how important it is to keep the gangster state that Russia now is at bay, and undercut Putin's message that time is on his side - and that European countries had better immediately scale back their aid to Ukraine. Putin, meanwhile, faces an anabolic version of the 'loyalty-compromise'. That term was coined by two political scientists expelled from Russia for the problem facing dictators. A dictator cannot escape giving power to subordinates. But the more competent they are in assessing and playing with power relations, the more dangerous they are for the ruler. The latter is therefore tempted to choose less competent subordinates - say, the more boorish battle like Defence Minister Shoygoe and Chief of Staff Gerasimov. This has not brought the desired results on the battlefield or in Moscow for now.

And Putin will have to make it clear to the elites and rulers that their loyalty is as useful as ever, and that otherwise at least their defection will be just as costly. And he will want to make it impossible for another alternative to his rule to emerge. About what subtle that looks like, he will worry little image that has always been a secondary issue for Putin.

Jimbuna

06-28-23, 05:03 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcLNYcb7b0

tonschk

06-28-23, 08:02 AM

A Bunch of NATO Terrorists Fall in a Minefield Trap Are Losing their Legs One After the Other

https://i.postimg.cc/pTk4MsWy/terror.png (https://postimg.cc/Q990pkWr)

Jimbuna

06-28-23, 08:50 AM

Meanwhile Russian invaders commit further war crimes by attacking civilian infrastructure ie. a shopping centre killing three children amongst others.

Eight people have been killed, including three children, by Russian missiles that hit the centre of Kramatorsk in eastern Ukraine.

A restaurant and shopping area were hit in Tuesday's strike on the city, which is under Ukrainian control but close to Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine.

Rescuers are continuing to search for people trapped under the debris.

At least 56 others were injured in the strike, according to Ukrainian emergency services.

An eyewitness told the BBC he saw "dead people, people screaming, people crying, huge chaos".

A 17-year-old girl was reported to be among those who were killed in the attack, which happened at around 19:30 local time (16:30 GMT).

There were also apartment buildings at the epicentre of the explosion, officials said.

Social media and drone footage from the scene show significant damage to the buildings, some of which have been reduced to rubble.

Belgian freelance journalist Arnaud De Decker told BBC Newshour he was at the popular Ria Lounge restaurant just minutes before it was hit.

"There's still people underneath the rubble because it's a big restaurant," he said.

"Now I can hear people screaming underneath the rubble as rescuers are trying to save them."

He estimated up to 80 staff members and customers were on the restaurant premises at the time of the strike, so feared the casualty number could be "severe".

Officials say at least 40 people were injured, including an eight-month-old baby and three foreigners.

A rescue operation is currently under way in the city centre, with security agencies assisting emergency services at the scene and evacuating victims.

Local authorities say the area had a high concentration of civilians when the missiles hit.

"This is the city centre. These were public eating places crowded with civilians," regional governor Pavlo Kyrylenko told Ukrainian television.

Mr De Decker described the restaurant as a local "gathering hub" that was also popular with soldiers, journalists and volunteers.

Russian forces also targeted a nearby village, Kramatorsk city council said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the attack proved to Ukraine and the world that Russia deserved "only defeat and a tribunal, just and lawful courts against all Russian murderers and terrorists".

The White House condemned Russia for its "brutal strikes" on Ukraine.

Kramatorsk has often been targeted by missiles since the start of the invasion in February 2022.

The city of 150,000 people is one of the largest still under Ukrainian control in the besieged east. It lies about 30km (18 miles) from the frontline.

In April of last year more than 60 people died in Kramatorsk following a missile strike on the city's railway station.

It is also exactly a year to the day since a shopping centre in the city of Kremenchuk was hit by Russian shelling, killing at least 18 people.

This latest attack comes as Mr Zelensky said Ukraine's counter-offensive was advancing on all fronts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66031342

Jimbuna

06-28-23, 10:43 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6ZaVeOHXE

Dargo

06-28-23, 10:54 AM

Most Americans support US arming Ukraine
WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - Solid majorities of Americans support providing weaponry to Ukraine to defend itself against Russia and believe that such aid demonstrates to China and other U.S. rivals a will to protect U.S. interests and allies, according to a Reuters/Ipsos survey. The two-day poll that was concluded on Tuesday charted a sharp rise in backing for arming Ukraine, with 65% of the respondents approving of the shipments compared with 46% in a May poll. Eighty-one percent of Democrats, 56% of Republicans and 57% of independents favor supplying U.S. weapons to Ukraine, according to the latest poll.

The survey was conducted just days after Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the private Wagner mercenary company, launched and then called off a mutiny over what he charged was the Russian defense ministry's mishandling of the war in Ukraine. The findings appeared to provide firmer backing for U.S. President Joe Biden's policy of doing "whatever it takes" to assist Ukraine in recapturing territory that Russia seized in an initial assault in 2014 and its full-scale invasion 16 months ago. "This definitely reinforces Biden's decision to be all-in on this," said William Taylor, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine now with the U.S. Institute of Peace. "The Republican leadership of the House and Senate will also take heart from this," Taylor said. Some right-wing Republican lawmakers have opposed continuing U.S. military support for Ukraine.

The Biden administration has approved 41 weapons packages for Ukraine totaling more than $40 billion since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched what he calls "a special military operation" in February 2022. The online Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted nationwide, collecting responses from 1,004 adults, including 400 Democrats and 383 Republicans. It had a credibility interval, a measure of precision, of about 4 percentage points in either direction.

The poll found that 76% of Americans believe that providing aid to Ukraine demonstrates to China and other rivals that the United States has "the will and capability to protect our interests, our allies and ourselves." In other findings, the survey said large majorities of Americans - 67% and 73% - are more likely to support a candidate in next year's U.S. presidential election who will continue military aid to Ukraine and one who backs the NATO alliance. https://www.reuters.com/world/most-americans-support-us-arming-ukraine-reutersipsos-2023-06-28/

Exocet25fr

06-28-23, 01:14 PM

Ukrainian war crimes too....?:hmmm:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/25/tcbh-m25.html

Dargo

06-28-23, 01:50 PM

Ukrainian war crimes too....?:hmmm:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/25/tcbh-m25.htmlIn all wars all sides are guilty of war crimes this happens you can not control all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
https://besacenter.org/netherlands-war-crimes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_war_crimes

Catfish

06-28-23, 02:35 PM

It seems Surovikin may be the reason why Prigozhin is still alive..

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1674100048911532042

Translation from german Spiegel:

"US officials are trying to find out "whether the former Russian supreme commander in Ukraine helped plan Prigozhin's actions over the past weekend," the newspaper writes. A request from the Reuters news agency was initially left unanswered by both the Kremlin and the Pentagon ."

https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/ausland/ukraine-krieg-putin-general-sergei-surovikin-wusste-offenbar-von-wagner-plaenen-a-cdc3cb0c-1cc7-4df7-bef3-a9445cd66a90?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Skybird

06-28-23, 02:36 PM

The numercial ratio between war crimes by both sides speak a crystal clear language, and not in favour of the Russian fascist attacker.

The latest one: the Ukrainian secret service SBU arrested the employee of a local gas company on Wednesday. The man was suspected of spying on the restaurant in Kramatorsk as a target the day before and transmitting pictures of it to a soldier of the fascist invaders.

If true that means the aggressors do not even just randomly fire into civilian crowds and building blocks, but pick amongst several ones and precisely target these civilian targets, deleting any randomness in the action, in a deliberate bid for maximising the effects of their terror.

Catfish

06-28-23, 02:41 PM

More of Ukraine's offensive, rather than about Prigozhin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehlZOquAS0k

Skybird

06-28-23, 02:50 PM

Sweden seems to suffer from brain rotting.

The police allowed the burning of a Koran on Wednesday, and Wednesday was a Muslim holiday. The organizer wanted to wake up people that Islam is dangerous and incompatible with democracy and Western values. So far so good, no complaint from me until here. Though I add that Russia also is incompatible with democracy and Western values.

Erdoğan, on the other hand, has stated several times in the past that Swedish entry into the military alliance remains futile as long as Koran burnings are allowed in Sweden.

So the membership for Sweden indeed is in question, now that Turkish elections are over and hope was that the padisha emperor at the Bosporus would mercifully and opportunistically give the Swedes a kind nod.

Forget it, stupid Swedes.

You should have waited until you got the deal and got the membership treaty signed - and then burn the Koran.

But not before, you stupid idiots. :dead:

Catfish

06-28-23, 02:54 PM

Ukrainian war crimes too....?:hmmm:

From your very link:
"Vous nous avez demandé d'enquêter sur une vidéo où l'on voit des prisonniers, présentés comme russes, être torturés par des hommes en uniformes. Il n'est pas possible de confirmer de manière certaine l’authenticité des images."

Translation:
"You asked us to investigate a video showing prisoners, presented as Russians, being tortured by men in uniform. It is not possible to confirm with certainty the authenticity of the images."

Ah. So?

And from the "World Socialist Website" ?! lmao :haha:

From Stalin through the cold war years to Putin does anyone still believe that Russia has ever been anything else than a dictatorship?

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

Commander Wallace

06-28-23, 02:57 PM

From the "World Socialist Website" ?! lmao :haha:

From Stalin through the cold war years to Putin does anyone still believe that Russia has ever been anything else than a dictatorship?

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

:agree: Well said. :yep:

mapuc

06-28-23, 03:35 PM

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

Well I have a few friends belonging to the right wing and they directly or indirectly support Russia.

Markus

Catfish

06-28-23, 04:27 PM

^ Ah, so the right wing nazis Putin and his Wagner group accuse others being nazis to have a made-up reason to fight them. Nazis fighting other nations because their overlord nazi Putin says so.
Make no mistake, if Russia could it would also invade Denmark and all nations until they reach the Atlantic. Russia's ideolgic "mentor" Dugin said so, as did a lot of others. As it is echoed in all russian media and TV because "the evil nazis of the west attacked them" :haha:
Who attacked who, already in 2014?

This one in the picture below is the founder of the "Wagner" group. "Wagner", because Hitler was a fan of composer Richard Wagner, which is why the Wagner group calls itself the "orchestra". They are all nazis, and proud of it.
Wagner boss Utkin has nazi tattoos all over his body, from SS runes to swastikas. So this is the man Puting wants to fight "nazis". lmao.

https://i.imgur.com/lJTB3oLl.jpg

Here you can see Utkin at a dinner with Putin in Moscow, back then when Putin claimed he had no connections or did not know anything about the "Wagner" group; this has changed since a few days lol (Utkin at the right):

https://i.imgur.com/j9x2eBdl.jpg

Nazis fighting nazis of another nazi country, with soldiers from a right wing nazi dictatorship :har:

Skybird

06-28-23, 07:52 PM

Just in: it seems Gen Surovikin has been arrested. A massive purge in the army seems to be under way.

Jimbuna

06-29-23, 03:38 AM

From your very link:
"Vous nous avez demandé d'enquêter sur une vidéo où l'on voit des prisonniers, présentés comme russes, être torturés par des hommes en uniformes. Il n'est pas possible de confirmer de manière certaine l’authenticité des images."

Translation:
"You asked us to investigate a video showing prisoners, presented as Russians, being tortured by men in uniform. It is not possible to confirm with certainty the authenticity of the images."

Ah. So?

And from the "World Socialist Website" ?! lmao :haha:

From Stalin through the cold war years to Putin does anyone still believe that Russia has ever been anything else than a dictatorship?

Funnny how the so-called "left" supports fascists like Putin just because Russia claimed to be a "communist" country until 1989. It NEVER was.
No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows.

^ Ah, so the right wing nazis Putin and his Wagner group accuse others being nazis to have a made-up reason to fight them. Nazis fighting other nations because their overlord nazi Putin says so.
Make no mistake, if Russia could it would also invade Denmark and all nations until they reach the Atlantic. Russia's ideolgic "mentor" Dugin said so, as did a lot of others. As it is echoed in all russian media and TV because "the evil nazis of the west attacked them" :haha:
Who attacked who, already in 2014?

This one in the picture below is the founder of the "Wagner" group. "Wagner", because Hitler was a fan of composer Richard Wagner, which is why the Wagner group calls itself the "orchestra". They are all nazis, and proud of it.
Wagner boss Utkin has nazi tattoos all over his body, from SS runes to swastikas. So this is the man Puting wants to fight "nazis". lmao.

https://i.imgur.com/lJTB3oLl.jpg

Here you can see Utkin at a dinner with Putin in Moscow, back then when Putin claimed he had no connections or did not know anything about the "Wagner" group; this has changed since a few days lol (Utkin at the right):

https://i.imgur.com/j9x2eBdl.jpg

Nazis fighting nazis of another nazi country, with soldiers from a right wing nazi dictatorship :har:

Pretty much hits the nail on the head Kai :yep:

Jimbuna

06-29-23, 03:54 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoiWhCWpZw

Exocet25fr

06-29-23, 04:08 AM

A crime war is a crime war, why speak about that on a only one side ?

catfish wrote: No, you love dictators and dictatorships, and it shows ?????? Anyway....!

The Ukrainian Defeat Near Mala Tokmachka Was Worst Than We Thought!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/06/27/25-tanks-and-fighting-vehicles-gone-in-a-blink-the-ukrainian-defeat-near-mala-tokmachka-was-worst-than-we-thought/?ss=aerospace-defense&sh=5832da587918

Jimbuna

06-29-23, 05:56 AM

It would appear an alleged Russian agent, a resident Kramatorsk, sent video footage of the restaurant to the Russian military hours before it was destroyed.

Wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now.

August

06-29-23, 08:04 AM

The Ukrainian Defeat Near Mala Tokmachka Was Worst Than We Thought!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/06/27/25-tanks-and-fighting-vehicles-gone-in-a-blink-the-ukrainian-defeat-near-mala-tokmachka-was-worst-than-we-thought/?ss=aerospace-defense&sh=5832da587918

You Can't Make An Omelet Without Breaking A Few Eggs And You Can't Liberate Your Country From the Clutches Of An Evil Invader Without Taking Some Losses. Bottom Line Is The Area Is Now In Ukrainian Control.

Catfish

06-29-23, 09:43 AM

"Russian Economy Destroyed By Wagner Revolt - China Concerns Over Trade & Investment, Ukraine & MENA"

Much more than about russian economy, some hard info on Wagner and why he did it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElbihQmJVro

Lukashenko is so unsure how thing will turn out, maybe Russia be a part of Belarus soon

He really said it lol

https://twitter.com/VovaDolbaeb/status/1674286100423102467

Russians refuse to go to front
"The corpses are rotting on square, wounded are left in the middle"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwayqkBTam8

Exocet25fr

06-29-23, 11:25 AM

Too funny....!:haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsmgsEcs_NQ

Dargo

06-29-23, 12:33 PM

The Wall Street Journal reports that the US is close to approving a long-range missile system for Ukraine that could strike Russian targets from far behind the frontlines, according to a senior Ukrainian defence official.

The Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) has a range of about 190 miles (306km). The US president, Joe Biden, has not signed off on the transfer, partly over concerns among US officials that Ukraine could use it to strike Russian territory and escalate the conflict.

A senior Ukrainian defence official told the newspaper that Kyiv had received positive signs in recent weeks that the US had come around on the missile system. Ukrainian officials have argued that the long-range missiles are needed, in part, to strike into Crimea, the peninsula occupied by Russia, which is being used as a base to launch Iranian-made drones, according to public statements by the US and its European allies. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/29/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukraine-makes-advances-in-south-and-east-top-general-says-putin-greets-crowds-in-rare-walkabout?CMP=share_btn_tw&page=with%3Ablock-649dac128f08ff8b60150721#block-649dac128f08ff8b60150721

Jimbuna

06-29-23, 01:02 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfdW5toyIVM

Dargo

06-29-23, 01:05 PM

West tries to quickly stop successful Russian combat helicopter Ka-52 'Alligator'
Russia is frustrating the Ukrainian counter-offensive with one of its most modern combat helicopters, the Ka-52 'Alligator'. Western countries, including the Netherlands, quickly send missiles to shoot the heavily armed helicopter out of the sky. The Russian air force, which has never managed to conquer Ukrainian airspace since the invasion, has been increasingly showing itself on the battlefield in the south in recent weeks. Attack helicopters regularly take off from an airfield near occupied Berdjansk to target Ukrainian units trying to push through in the Zaporizhzhya region.

One such aircraft is tank killer Ka-52, which is armed with an arsenal of anti-tank missiles and a rapid-fire cannon. Such as the Vikhr missile, which can destroy tanks and armoured vehicles up to 10 kilometres away. A more modern missile, the Lumr with a range of 15 kilometres, allows pilots to operate at even greater distances. This makes the Ka-52 'Alligator' less vulnerable to Ukrainian soldiers armed with anti-aircraft missiles, such as the dangerous US Stinger missile. Video after video released by the Moscow Defence Ministry since the Ukrainian army began the counter-offensive in early June shows the Ka-52 firing anti-tank missiles at tanks and armoured vehicles. The helicopter crew keeps the laser focused on the target for seconds to guide the anti-tank missile towards the armoured equipment, after which the missile strikes. In one of the attacks, an armoured car was hit full on, but the soldiers still tried to drive on.

The successful Russian attacks, which also took out Western Leopard tanks and Bradley combat vehicles, show that Ukraine has a big problem. And that problem, the Ka-52, must be neutralised as soon as possible if the counter-offensive is to have any chance of success. The unexpectedly good performance of the combat helicopter, once developed to destroy enemy armoured equipment, has surprised not only Ukraine but also the West. The Ukrainian army has so far only deployed Western armoured equipment on a small scale that will have to make the big difference in the offensive. But what if the big attack is launched soon and hundreds of Leopard and Challenger tanks, and Bradley and Stryker armoured vehicles try to break through the Russian lines? How many will then be taken out by the Ka-52, also known as the 'flying tank' in Russia? The United States decided on Tuesday to send 55 additional Bradleys and Strykers to Ukraine, partly to replace lost equipment. This support is part of a new $500 million arms package, bringing total US military aid to $40 billion. The US, together with the Netherlands, Denmark and the UK, is also trying to boost Ukrainian air defences among frontline combat units as soon as possible. Because the undisturbed deployment of Ka-52s shows that this is still a major problem.

Ukraine now has effective air defence systems, such as the Soviet-made S-300 and the US Patriot, which are used to take down long-range aircraft and missiles, among other things. However, what is now missing on the frontline are short- and medium-range air defence systems to fight low-flying aircraft such as helicopters, among others. The Netherlands and the three other countries decided to act in mid-June, after the operations of the Ka-52s were brought out. Ukraine will now receive hundreds of missiles and launchers. Delivery was started immediately and should be completed in a few weeks. 'This should ensure success of counter-offensive operations,' the four countries said in a statement. According to some reports, Ukraine will receive Soviet weaponry, such as the Strela 10 that can shoot down helicopters up to 5 kilometres away. Several Eastern European NATO member states still have the Strela. Wagner fighters used this mobile short-range system in their uprising at the weekend to deter Russian Ka-52s. A Ka-52 was then almost hit by a Strela missile. Another combat helicopter managed to avoid a direct hit by diverting the missile.

The Ka-52 may be successful now but that does not mean the aircraft, much compared to the US Apache attack helicopter, is invulnerable. Before the invasion, the Russians had about 120 aircraft at their disposal. According to the Oryx site, which meticulously charts the loss of Russian military equipment, 37 of the precious combat helicopters have been lost so far. It is estimated that a Ka-52 costs $13 million each. The Ukrainians managed to shoot down Ka-52s with Western anti-aircraft missiles, among other things. According to the Ukrainian military, the helicopter is also vulnerable to machine-gun fire. In a report last year, the defence ministry pointed out that the helicopter's armour could easily be pierced. 'In practice, it has been shown that the Ka-52 can be put out of action with a 7.62mm machine gun,' the report said. The Russian military has been apathetic about the combat helicopter's performance for weeks. But that could soon change if the Ukrainian army manages to shoot Ka-52s out of the sky one after another with the new short-range missiles. Then it will also have to become clear whether the Russian air force, which last year limited operations over Ukraine for fear of the S-300 system, will take further risks in the south to stop the Ukrainian counter-offensive. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/westen-probeert-snel-succesvolle-russische-gevechtshelikopter-ka-52-alligator-te-stoppen~b2137388/

Dargo

06-29-23, 01:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olH2-_Gtczw
Most observers (Western and Russian) seem to have expected Ukraine to go over onto the offensive sometime in the 2023 campaign season. Such a move was well telegraphed and a natural extension of Ukraine's stated objectives of taking back occupied territories from the Russian Federation. By mid-June, it was clear Ukraine had started an offensive effort, launching probing actions at multiple points along the front and finally showing some of the heavy Western equipment it had received over the last six months. Those initial attacks ran into the teeth of heavy Russian defences, and progress since then has been slower than the Ukrainian High Command may have hoped. Initially I had planned not to touch these developments for some time - but with the recent information environment extending the full range of takes from 'Ukraine has lost the war' to 'everything is according to plan' I thought it was worth making an effort to try and clearly interpret (as far as possible) the data as we have it now.

Skybird

06-30-23, 04:58 AM

Surovikin should have been a high ranking member of the Wagner group, documents say.

And the Ukrainian defence minister says the Russian FSB is planning to assassinate Prigozhin. Well, tell us something new, man!

Jimbuna

06-30-23, 05:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H2yEhBY0wM

Skybird

06-30-23, 05:49 AM

The European Union pledges further comprehensive support for Ukraine, but is holding back on security guarantees for the period after the end of Russia's war of aggression. At the EU summit in Brussels, the 27 member states were only able to agree on a vague declaration of intent for "future security commitments." The reason for the cautious choice of words was the attitude of countries such as Austria, Ireland and Malta. They want to remain militarily neutral and are therefore not members of NATO.
[DW]

-----------------

^ Illustrates nicely one of the several reasons why I am against establishing parallel military structures to NATO and call them a EU army.

--------------------

The US considers delivery of DPICM cluster ammunitions, and ATACMS with a range of 300 km. The first is controversial due to legal and political self-restrictions.

---------------------

Ukrainian military intelligence: Rosatom employees leave Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant

According to the latest information from the Military Intelligence Service of Ukraine, the crew of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant is gradually leaving the site of the nuclear power plant.

Among the first to leave the power plant were three employees of Rosatom, the Federal Agency for Atomic Energy in Russia, who had been stationed there with the Russian occupation of the nuclear power plant. But Ukrainian employees who had signed a contract with Rosatom were also advised to leave.

They are to leave for occupied Crimea by July 5. At the site and in the town of Energodari, the number of military patrols is also decreasing, according to the update. The withdrawal could be interpreted as an indication that Russian forces are planning an attack on the power plant. Most recently, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, as well as Ukrainian intelligence, had warned that Russian occupiers were believed to have mined parts of the power plant.

Staff remaining at the nuclear plant were reportedly ordered to "blame Ukraine in the event of an emergency," Ukrainian intelligence said. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, on the other hand, accused Ukraine of playing a "dangerous game with the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant." He said the government in Kiev was spreading "pure lies" with statements suggesting that Russia wanted to blow up the nuclear plant.
[Tagesspiegel]

--------------------

^ If the Russian fascists cannot keep conquered ground, they will poison it to prevent Ukraine making use of it for industry and agriculture. Scorched Earth policy.

Jimbuna

06-30-23, 06:48 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL9MlRH5uPo

Jimbuna

06-30-23, 12:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2K-M68cI0E

Dargo

06-30-23, 01:12 PM

'I was guaranteed that all anti-aircraft defences would be on alert': did the feud between Prigozhin and the Russian army leadership in Syria start?
The feud between Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin and Russia's army leadership, which broke out in full last weekend, did not originate in Ukraine. It started five years ago in Syria - and the general who is now said to have been arrested for colluding with Wagner also played an important role then. Did Sergei Soerovikin have some ground to make up with Progoshin? It is noon on the night of 7-8 February 2018. In the Syrian province of Deir ez-Zor, a large movement of troops is gathering pace. It is two detachments of the Wagner Group, which took part in the civil war there even before the Russian army took part on the side of dictator Bashar al-Assad. The mercenary army is advancing with tanks and artillery - and supported by Syrian troops - towards an important oil field. Located near the village of Khasham, it belonged to US energy giant Conoco-Phillips before the war. It took until early this year for the Wagner Group to acknowledge its involvement at the time in what became known as the Battle of Khasham. "The Conoco oil field was a stronghold of Islamic State," Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin claimed at the time. "Petroleum was their main source of income and since our job was to fight the terror group, we planned an operation to take control of the oil field." That explanation is not quite correct, because in fact it was the Kurds who were there, backed by the United States.

According to Prigozhin, however, that was all one and the terrorists were also receiving US assistance. "On the ground, we were controlling all of them," he explained. "But to prevent the Americans from surprising us from the air, we agreed with the Russian army to give us cover. I personally went to the Khmeimim air base (where the Russian command in Syria was based, ed.) and was promised four SU-35 fighters that would permanently fly over the area. And I was also guaranteed that all anti-aircraft defences would be on alert." But the Wagner army had only left when all hell broke loose. "American AH-64-Apache helicopters appeared and surrounded us, strafing us with guided missiles and machine guns. We saw our vehicles shrivel up like a chocolate bar you crush in your fist," an eyewitness account reads. According to Prigozhin, the Americans deployed all means at their disposal: "F-15E fighter jets, MQ-9-Reaper attack drones, an AC-130 gunship and even B-52 bombers." The attack dragged on for four hours and was devastating, according to images released by Wagner himself this year. According to US sources, at least 100 fighters were killed and possibly as many as three times that number. "Some Russian mercenaries would also have been among them," it sounded at the time. But an inventory of death reports published by dissident Mikhail Khodorkovsky's 'Dossier Center' five years later showed that at least 79 Wagner fighters died. The heaviest loss the militia had suffered until then. To whom was Wagner to blame for that loss? To defence minister Sergei Shoygu and chief of staff Valeri Gerasimov, it turns out. Because when they learned that their air force would provide cover for an operation that, in their view, served only to give the Wagner group the benefit of the oil, they called off air support. Indeed, the Americans informed them that they were going to attack the advancing troops. "There was contact with Russia's military leadership before, during and after the clash," US defence secretary Jim Mattis stated at the time.

But this was thus concealed from Wagner. The only air support that came consisted of two planes that the Wagner Group was allowed to use to repatriate the bodies of its fighters to Russia. Prigozhin would have travelled to Moscow that same week to seek redress with Shoygoe. But the latter refused to receive him. When he finally managed to accost him at a reception, Shoygoe is said to have turned around and haughtily said, "You wanted to be a hero, didn't you? Well, your men have already succeeded in that." The commander in Syria who had promised the air support was Sergei Soerovikin. The four-star general still considered an ally of Prigozhin today. Does he still have something to make up for? Or perhaps he was promised a share in the oil profits at the time and therefore also harboured a deep hatred for the army leadership? When the Wagner Group advanced into Moscow on Friday night, he was the first to publicly disapprove. But according to The New York Times, Soerovikin may have known about Prigozhin's plans in advance, and although that too has been denied, Russian media reported that he would now have been arrested. https://www.demorgen.be/oorlog-in-oekraine/er-werd-mij-gegarandeerd-dat-alle-luchtafweer-op-scherp-zou-staan-is-de-vete-tussen-prigozjin-en-de-russische-legerleiding-in-syrie-ontstaan~b8aa6f16/

Skybird

06-30-23, 01:50 PM

Saluschnyi ist sauer. Things dont run like he wants them, and the West does not give him what he needs. Still the West confront him with surreal expectations.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/generalstabschef-der-ukraine-wuetend-ueber-gegenoffensive-es-kotzt-mich-an_id_197843429.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

I stick to what I said since quite early in the war. Washington, Paris and Berlin arte not reralyl interested in a Ukrainian victory. Washington wants to prolongue the war to maximise damage to Russia, at the cost of Ukraine. Paris and Berlin dont want Ukraine to win so that the balance of Power in Europe does not shift from Paris and Berlin towards Warzaw and Kyiv.

These are false friends.

mapuc

06-30-23, 05:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPkVxqGn82U&ab_channel=DenysDavydov

Markus

Skybird

07-01-23, 03:17 AM

It seems things do not look good for the offensive. If the following analysis by the Neue Zürcher Zeitung is true, the Ukrainian losses are critcial, desastrous. I post the German translation in full, since NZZ does not work well with website-link-translations done by Google.
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Destroyed and abandoned - dozens of Leopard 2s and Marder apparently lost in Ukrainian offensive

German battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles would turn the tide. That was the hope when the government in Berlin voted in favor of the delivery. But after the first Ukrainian attacks on Russian positions, it turns out that this is not true.

What a lot has been written about the Leopard 2. It could be a game-changer, a weapon that makes the difference, a tank that shortens the war. That's what was said in politics and the media, including the NZZ, when the debate about the delivery of German battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine raged in the winter. Half a year later, the euphoria has been dampened. A considerable part of the German and other Western weapon systems was apparently already lost during the first three weeks of the Ukrainian offensive in June.

There is conflicting information about how high the losses are. On Twitter, a list is circulating that was published by a channel that is usually considered well-informed, reputable and pro-Ukrainian. According to it, during the first three weeks of their offensive, the Ukrainians would have lost 41 Leopard-2 and 49 T-72 main battle tanks, in addition to, among others, 31 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles from the United States and 7 of the Marder type, as well as 23 artillery pieces (including 4 self-propelled howitzers 2000 from Germany) and 40 armored vehicles of the MRAP type.

The documentation platform "Oryx" publishes lower figures. According to it, 25 Bradley, 4 Leopard 2A6, 3 Leopard 2A4, 3 mine clearing tank and 1 armored recovery vehicle have been destroyed. "Oryx" is a Dutch website that collects its data based on public sources and substantiates each listed weapon system with a geolocated photo. However, "Oryx" had recently announced to stop its time-consuming and unpaid work. Therefore, the question is how reliable the figures on the website are in the meantime.

The dimension of the possible losses becomes clear when put in relation to the total number of deliveries. Germany had delivered 18 Leopard 2A6s to Ukraine, and 36 Leopard 2A4s had come from Poland, Canada, Norway and Spain. That makes a total of 54 main battle tanks, of which only 13 would be left, according to the Twitter listing. The situation would not be quite so catastrophic for other weapons systems. Of 40 Marder infantry fighting vehicles, 33 would still exist, of 14 self-propelled howitzers 2000, 10 would still exist and of 109 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, 78 would still exist. The authors of the Twitter channel refer to a source in the Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff.

There is no official evidence of Ukrainian losses of German and other Western weapons. The government in Kiev does not publish such figures. German soldiers working in the EU training mission for Ukraine report that even in confidential talks their Ukrainian partners would not comment on this. However, numerous photos and videos are circulating on the Internet showing destroyed and abandoned German and American battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles in no man's land between the front lines.

In addition, the American magazine "Forbes" recently reported on a Ukrainian attack on June 8 on the town of Robotine in the south of the country. The attack was carried out by two brigades equipped with Western weapons. They had encountered two Russian motorized rifle regiments, Speznas special forces, and reserve units north of Robotine, which had dug in and fortified their defensive positions for months. In that attack alone, he said, 17 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, 4 Leopard 2A6s and 3 Leopard 2Rs were lost. Leopard 2Rs are Finnish mine-clearing tanks based on the German Leopard 2 main battle tank.

The Ukrainians are running against multiple lines of defense. However, they have not even reached the first positions of the Russians, but mostly got stuck in the minefields in front. These fields consist of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines. An anti-tank mine is a metal disk filled with explosives, often equipped with a pressure fuse. It can be buried in the ground by hand or by vehicles. Anti-personnel mines are much smaller. The Russians fire them from a long distance with an artillery gun, thus scattering the treacherous explosive devices over a large area.

Minefields slow down an attack massively because heavy clearing equipment has to be used first to create a mine alley for the advancing troops. Russian mobile anti-tank units succeeded in destroying several of these mine-clearing tanks while they were pounding the alleys. In some cases, however, the Ukrainian battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles did not even get farther than their deployment position. They were destroyed by helicopters and fighter jets before they could launch the attack. The Ukrainians lack air defense systems to prevent these airstrikes.

The Russians also currently have a considerable advantage in the use of drones. With their Lanzet kamikaze drones, they have been inflicting heavy losses on the Ukrainians in terms of tanks, guns and air defense systems for months. They are also successfully using jammers on the front line to repel Ukrainian drone attacks. The small terrain gains the Ukrainians have made so far are therefore offset by many lost Western battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, as well as hundreds of fallen and wounded soldiers.

However, high casualties on the side of an aggressor are nothing unusual. In the military, the ratio of attackers to defenders must be three to one for a breakthrough attempt to be promising. The Ukrainians, however, lack not only the manpower, but also the weapons. They have too few combat aircraft and helicopters, mine-clearing tanks and anti-aircraft systems, battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

In addition, the Russians manage to tie down the Ukrainians with their own attacks on various sections of the front in the Donbass with strong formations. In this way, they prevent the Ukrainians from forming centers of gravity. Military observers say there has been no major Ukrainian effort to break through decisively at any point.

After the sometimes catastrophic losses, the Ukrainians are now adapting their tactics. Instead of clearing minefields, they are trying to blast their way through them. To do this, they are firing explosive charges, the explosion of which is intended to detonate the mines buried in the ground. In addition, they no longer use marching columns of tanks, armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles, but smaller assault squads consisting mainly of soldiers on foot (dismounted infantry) and only a few battle tanks and armored personnel carriers.

But in the areas they occupy, the Russians have laid what are believed to be hundreds of thousands of mines along the entire front. Wherever the Ukrainians attack, they will have to strike minefields. This ensures that neither Leopard nor Marder or Bradley can initially play to their strengths. They will be channeled and forced onto a narrowly defined path. This makes them easy targets for targeted artillery fire, attack helicopters and anti-tank guided missiles.

It is a perfidious but effective way of warfare used by the Russians. Several videos document the disastrous course of Ukrainian attacks. On their way through the mine alleys, columns are hit by artillery or mines that have not been cleared. Soldiers, some injured, leave the tanks, come under fire and seek cover in areas outside the mine alley. There they get caught in fields of anti-personnel mines. They die in agony with their limbs torn off, while their comrades can hardly help because they would have to enter the minefield themselves.

In an offensive, the first weeks are usually decisive. In military history, there are many examples of how a surprise attack on the enemy positions brought a breakthrough, thus setting the front in motion. Such a moment is not currently seen in Ukraine. According to Western military experts such as former U.S. General Ben Hodges, the losses of battle tanks and other vehicles in the first few weeks do not yet weigh so heavily as to call the entire offensive into question. To that end, he said, the Ukrainians still have enough well-equipped formations up their sleeve so far.

The US government recently announced further arms deliveries, including 30 Bradley and 25 Stryker wheeled tanks. Rheinmetall plans to deliver 14 more Leopard 2A4s to Ukraine by early next year on behalf of the Netherlands and Denmark. The German government intends to send up to 100 older Leopard 1 main battle tanks to Ukraine in the coming months. Military observers such as Austrian General Staff Officer Markus Reisner see signs that the Ukrainians are now consolidating for the time being in order to launch another offensive in late summer.

It is possible that by then Germany will be faced with the next debate on arms deliveries. The Ukrainians urgently need precision weapons such as the Taurus cruise missile, with which they can engage Russian positions from a safe distance. In view of the presumed losses, the Ukrainians are also likely to ask for more Leopard 2A6s soon. The Bundeswehr still has almost 190 of them in its inventory.

It is not known whether the Russians have been able to capture any of the German tanks so far. Most of the destroyed and abandoned Leopard 2s are in no man's land between the fronts.

[NZZ]

----------------
I was sceptical about the chances of this offensive, and I remain to be so. The Ukrainians are outnumbered, have in no way sufficient air cover, are inferior in drones now, are low in all sorts of artillery ammo and thus cannot prepare their tactical advances the way you want to do if going against prepared defences, and they must expect the attacker's high loss ratios while not being given the ammounts of weapons by the West that they need. Everythign speaks against them except morale (which will suffer form this current mess), and the lousy state of inner Russian leadership.

I posted an article about an interview with Salushnyi yesterday. The WSJ interviewers were stunned by hios anger. He has all reason to be upset.

So far and until here the signs speak against a success of this offensiove. But there are still a few cards left to be played. But by now 8 of 12 attack brigades are engaged and some of them already suffered catastrophic losses in heavy equipment.

It doesn't help to talk things up and believe what you would like to believe.

And Russia, Putin? They wrote so much abotu how weakened he now is after the attemtped and then stopped coup. Sorry, I disagree, the Russian econoym still has the support of over 40% of the global economic potential, and Putin's state currently does what it is designed to do: it cracks down on inner oppasition, runs purges in the military's medium and higher leadership, while all the time the population is a total failure in terms of the possibility of igniting a dynamic on the street that could be dangerous to the Kremlin.

Black Swan events can never be ruled out. But it is stupid to take them for granted.

Skybird

07-01-23, 03:46 AM

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-168-iaea-director-general-statement-on-situation-in-ukraine-0

Jimbuna

07-01-23, 04:34 AM

Vladimir Putin assassination plot on Moscow bridge 'foiled by Russian secret service'

A plot to assassinate Vladimir Putin on a Moscow bridge was reportedly '"foiled by Russian Secret Service".

The assassination attempt reportedly involved laying explosives laid on a river bed below a bridge that the Russian autocrat's motorcade would have travelled over.

The Federal Protection Service (FSO), responsible for the protection of top Russian officials, claims it bettered a bid to blow up the bridge, according to the Telegram channel VChK-OGPU.

A barge has been suspected of laying explosives under an unnamed bridge prior to the assassination attempt.

Just yesterday, the warmonger was at the Strong Ideas for New Time by the Russian Agency of Strategic Initiative at the World Trade Centre and videos have since emerged of security services close to the Novoarbatsky Bridge scouring the water.

According to the post on VChK-OGPU: “The FSO was checking information about the preparation of an assassination attempt on Putin with the help of explosives at the bottom of the Moskva River, laid down from a barge.

“A duty officer of the Federal Security Service reported a suspicious barge under the bridge.”

Reports claim divers were seen entering the water after the suspect barge was told to move, “due to the movement of motorcades over the bridge”, reports the Daily Star.

The FSO is also understood to have checked the papers of the crew of the barge, which in turn said it was carrying out repairs to the bridge.

The activity has, however, been portrayed as a response to efforts to “assassinate Putin”.

This announcement comes amid the ongoing Ukrainian counter-offensive in the neighbouring country, and in the wake of what appears to be a failed attempt at a coup by the Wagner mercenary group.

It comes as an increasingly paranoid Putin has stepped up his personal security amid fears after last week’s uprising in Russia.

Wagner Group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led the abandoned rebellion, is said to be a “dead man walking” after going into exile in Belarus.

Some of Putin’s defence officials who may be suspected of being too close to the mercenary leader could also soon be “disappeared”, sources claim.

A number of senior Wagner Group executives and a handful of oligarchs have also been earmarked for the Russian president’s hit squads, it is believed.

A western security source told the Mirror: “There is an increasing belief that Prigozhin will be gone in months, if not sooner, and many others as well.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vladimir-putin-assassination-plot-on-moscow-bridge-foiled-by-russian-secret-service/ar-AA1dh1Ye?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=061844bae05842e28a514dbe756a7c91&ei=15

Skybird

07-01-23, 05:32 AM

As I said - Putin's state has swung into action to do exactly what it was designed to do. Obviously successful so far.

Too bad.

Exocet25fr

07-01-23, 09:31 AM

CIA director, on secret trip to Ukraine.........:D

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/30/cia-director-burns-ukraine-counteroffensive/

Skybird

07-01-23, 09:50 AM

^ From the above link:

Military analysts say Ukraine’s goal of forcing a negotiation is ambitious given Russia’s fortified defenses, but not out of the question.

“It’s possible they can cut off the land bridge to Crimea, either by seizing the terrain or putting it within range of HIMARS and otherartillery, but much depends on the level of attrition,” said Rob Lee, a military analyst at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.

“If Ukraine sustains too many losses, its offensive could culminate early. But if Ukraine can inflict enough losses on Russian forces and equipment, and interdict the movement of reinforcements, Ukraine may be able to weaken Moscow’s defenses enough to achieve a breakthrough,” he added.
(...)
“If Ukraine has the capability to target additional important airfields, bridges, rail lines and logistics hubs, they can make it more difficult for Russia to sustain the war,” said Lee, the military analyst.

In agreeing not to take Crimea by force, Kyiv would then demand that Russia accept whatever security guarantees Ukraine can secure from the West, said Ukrainian officials.
Somebody then has to give up Crimea. Either Ukraine for getting a seize fire with Russia. Or Russia for having no other choice then. Both said and continue to say they will never give up Crimea.

Before the war broke out over stupid reasons I did not expect, I said I could imagine Russia to go to war in two scenarios: a war triggered by a NATO membership of Ukraine, or a scenario where Russia is threatened to loose Crimea, and Sewastopol. I also said in case of the latter I see a Russian attempt to try saving Crimea for itself even by using nukes to be absolutely possible. Crimea is a red line. Nobody can say for sure how Russia reacts if that line gets overstepped.

Keeping Crimea also would allow Russia to track and threatend much of Ukraine's air space and pratcially all its shipping routes starting at the coast west of the Crimea-Ukriane land connection, but also in the east: the Asov Sea. Practically Ukraine cannot afford to not retake Crimea.

Jimbuna

07-01-23, 10:36 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak6gTxMbyEc

Skybird

07-01-23, 10:45 AM

The Ukrainian bridgehead on the bank of the Dnieper near the Antonovsky Bridge at Cherson, which has been fighting for a week, apparently has been eliminated by the Russians.

Jimbuna

07-01-23, 11:20 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gM7uMJK9cM

Jeff-Groves

07-01-23, 11:38 AM

10 Days? Sleepy Joe will forget everything in less then 1 Day.
Then send another Hundred+ Billion We don't have.

Skybird

07-01-23, 01:52 PM

The HT is Indian, and India is part of BRISofC and refuses to condemn Russia's attack on Ukraine. The video refers to a Russian nationalist as source.

Pro-Russian propaganda, in other words.

Jeff-Groves

07-01-23, 02:13 PM

You talking about Countries that still do Michael Jackson style Dances at a Boarder?
:o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXoWNe_HAak

Just put that video to music from Thriller and that tells you the State of the World Powers.

Skybird

07-01-23, 02:23 PM

At least we can make reasonable assumptions on why the aliens from outer space have never landed on our planet.

Exocet25fr

07-02-23, 04:07 AM

Russian Lancet kamikaze drones.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/01/russia-increases-deadly-lancet-drone-use-against-ukraine/

Jimbuna

07-02-23, 05:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0QREhq1u14

Jimbuna

07-02-23, 05:32 AM

I'd be throwing Hungary out of the EU and replacing them with Ukraine.

Let Hungary join/be consumed by Russia.

Pity they don't have a joined land border.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM9ea7kJyjA

mapuc

07-02-23, 06:59 AM

According to ISW Putin is in a dilemma.

From where should he take his reserves to protect Bakhmut in Ukraine ? From Kherson Oblast or from Luhansk Oblast ?

Russian forces are likely responding to Ukrainian operations around Bakhmut by pulling forces from elsewhere in Ukraine.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-1-2023

Markus

Skybird

07-02-23, 07:40 AM

The Ukrainian bridgehead on the bank of the Dnieper near the Antonovsky Bridge at Cherson, which has been fighting for a week, apparently has been eliminated by the Russians.
And a little time after this was reported by two newspapers, right now the story is told exactly the other way around: Ukrainians persisted and Russian resistence was eaten up.

Fiction in search for proven facts.

Skybird

07-02-23, 07:43 AM

This is a long interview with Markus Reisner, Col., in two parts. I am not certain whethe ror not Cicero can be displayed outside Germany and whether or not Google Translator works on it, so I give the German original links, you can try your translator ideas yourself that way.

https://www.cicero.de/aussenpolitik/ukraine-russland-usa-nato-krieg-markus-reisner

https://www.cicero.de/aussenpolitik/ukraine-russland-usa-nato-afghanistan-markus-reisner

Karl Krauss: "War is first the hope that one will be better off, then the expectation that the other will be worse off, then the satisfaction that the other is not better off, and then the surprise that both are worse off."

Jimbuna

07-02-23, 10:02 AM

And a little time after this was reported by two newspapers, right now the story is told exactly the other way around: Ukrainians persisted and Russian resistence was eaten up.

Fiction in search for proven facts.

Spin a coin but either way heads or tails you can only believe your own preference.

Jimbuna

07-02-23, 10:58 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oKwVcPEMBE

Exocet25fr

07-02-23, 01:29 PM

French AMX-10 RCs are for recon, not for fight heavy tanks....:D

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/02/ukrainian-commander-warns-french-tanks-are-inadequate-for-counteroffensive

Skybird

07-02-23, 02:03 PM

Ukrainian vice minister of defence confirms that Russian successfully coutnerattack and advance at Awdijiwka, Marjinka, Lyman and Swatowe. He says that minefields and Russian air dominance are immense problems. Ukrainian advances near Bakhmut are described as an only modest success; it sounds like things are not going their way as they hoped.
Ukrainian losses are often described as being alarmingly high wherever they try to advance.
-----------------
About 100 employees of the Russian state-owned Rosatom corporation are reported to have left the site of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant. This was said by Dmytro Orlov, mayor of the Russian-occupied town of Enerhodar, where the power plant is located, according to a report in the Kyiv Independent. According to the report, some Ukrainians who cooperated with the Russian occupation forces were also withdrawn.
[Spiegel]

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 04:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5AIuOgCWAQ

Skybird

07-03-23, 04:43 AM

More news snippets coming in like every day, indicating high losses for the Ukrainians.

The slow pace is not so much what I am concerned of, though time of course is not a non-factor: the seasons come and go, and what was summer will turn into muddy autumn and cold winter, but so far that is not what worries me. Its the high losses in material that the Ukrainian army seems to suffer what worries me most.

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 05:02 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-BBvg7WQR0

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 05:43 AM

Wagner Group mercenaries will no longer fight in Ukraine after their chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, refused to sign any contract with the Kremlin, a Russian politician has said.

Andrei Kartapolov, the head of the Duma defence committee, said Prigozhin had resisted in the days leading up to his attempted coup the calls by the Ministry of Defence for all private armies to sign a contract.

As a result, Prigozhin was informed that "Wagner would not take part in a special military operation" - as the war in Ukraine is called in Russia, Mr Kartapolov said.

He added: "That is, funding, material resources will not be allocated."

Prigozhin himself had said his troops would not be brought under the control of the Russian MoD earlier this month.

Skybird

07-03-23, 05:52 AM

Holiday in Russia - and Russians storm the holiday ressorts in Crimea. At the bridge of Kerch there is a line of cars waiting that is 13 km long. :o Water bottles had to be distributed amongst the waiting people.

Not from Crimea to Russia - but from Russia to Crimea.

:doh:

ET2SN

07-03-23, 06:17 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cee_0E142X4

:hmmm::yep:

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 06:26 AM

I struggle to see how Russia can come out of this in a positive fashion.

Vladimir Putin’s problems are mounting. The Russian President is still reeling from this month’s mutiny by mercenary group Wagner.

The Kremlin is burning through its rainy day fund to bankroll its invasion of Ukraine, and the country has been forced to sell oil at a discount to the likes of India and China.

But another problem is emerging as one of the biggest threats facing the Russian economy. After mass conscription – and an exodus of talented Russians fearful of the war’s impact – there simply aren’t enough workers to fill the jobs available.

Goldman Sachs describes it as the “most binding constraint on the Russian economy”, even ahead of sanctions-related restrictions on capital or technology. With more than two vacancies for every Russian worker, the jobs market is twice as tight as in the UK, where wages have taken off.

Some workers have fled. Others have died on the front line. Many are still fighting. In the words of one economist, it has left companies “screaming” about the lack of young people available to fill roles. And it’s a problem that even the head of the country’s central bank has warned will stoke inflation.

“Whatever happens with the war, the implications of a shrinking workforce on Russia’s economy are extremely negative,” says Liam Peach at Capital Economics.

Putin, who has described Russia’s demographic challenge as one of the few things that keeps him up at night, speaks openly about the issue. In a typical 13-minute rant ahead of a meeting with top Kremlin officials, he admitted that the country’s top brass discuss the “shortage of personnel...all the time”.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/how-russia-s-shrinking-workforce-is-wrecking-its-economy/ar-AA1dlCOJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=491b62b6da3c434ba6f8ca210f65c8cf&ei=8

Skybird

07-03-23, 07:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cee_0E142X4

:hmmm::yep:
I think this time the guy is off a bit.

He is basing on an implication he sets up in the beginning. Russia has huge reserves not just in crack troops, but also in top class weapon systems, an dit deicxded to just burn upo the bad troops and low grade stuff first. BTW, there are precedences for this kind of military logic being put into practice, but okay, lets leave it to that hint.

Here is the problem I have with him this time. I never imp0lied that the resrves of Russia are "grade one troops" and "top class equipement". I made the point, repeatedly, that even inferior, outdated stuff still makes a boom and can kill people and dxestroy tanks. We know that many of Russia's previously proclaimed elite units took a bloody beating in the ealry weeks and months of the war, practically seized to exist. We know thta many unprepared recruits and untrained men got thrown into the trenches. We know that in their current defence scheme, cionssting of three main lines and before that a line pof outposts, they have placed their better troops in the rear, and their cannon fooder in the front. We believe we know that the Ukrainains have engaged the very first defence line - the one behind the forward outposts - just at one location so far, else have fought bitterly with these outposts designed not to stop but to delay them, like the first line also is just for delay, and that Russian air power is coming down on them hard and that they time and again get bogged down up in minefields.

You do not need, apparenbtly, top class equipment and reserve troops to do this to the Ukrainians, it seems. This is where the video is misleading.

Also, the Russians have learned, they have adapted, they have copied the Ukrainians. They started with having underestimated drones in all there many forms and purposes. Now their drone warfare dominates that of the Ukrainians.

I think the guy is too caught up in the traditional thinking here.

If the Ukrainaisn manage to contact the thiord eefnce line, then we will learn whetehr theyx cna accheive a breakthrough, becasue the third line in mosgt places seems to be the one where the Russians have placed their remaining best troops and those with experiences.

Superior numbers, even of inferior quality, have their own charm.

The Russians still maintain complete units alomng their very long border to Asia/China, and towards Europe, btw. Theoretically here is even more material that could be moved to Ukraine.

A full mobilization is seen as risky for Putin, it might upset the population. Still: possible it still is.

And lets not forget: in the Ukrainian East the Russians are advancing along four attack axis currently.

One thing is certain: as things stand right now, the Russian still can afford high losses better and easier than the Ukrainians. And thats the core of the problem.

mapuc

07-03-23, 07:54 AM

tonschk

07-03-23, 07:57 AM

Postwar SS Ukrainian Nazi Galizien Division Refugees In Britain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 08:05 AM

...not in the NATO's interest to let Ukraine win, but to weaken Russia, make them soft.

Someone wrote in this thread.

I on the other hand get the feeling that NATO doesn't want Russia to win this.
It's only a feeling.

Russia is far from being weaken.

Markus

True, Russia is far from beaten and probably never will be but NATO are well into the process of being well prepared.

Russia’s armed forces are bruised but by no means beaten in the war in Ukraine, a top Nato official said on Monday, as he laid out the biggest revamp to the organisation’s military plans since the Cold War should Moscow dare to widen the conflict.

“They might not be 11ft tall, but they are certainly not 2ft tall,” Admiral Rob Bauer, chairman of the Nato Military Committee, told reporters. “So, we should never under-estimate the Russians and their ability to bounce back.”

US President Joe Biden and his Nato counterparts are set to endorse a major shake-up of the alliance’s planning system at a summit in the Lithuanian capital, Vilnius, next week.

Nato, as an organisation, does not provide weapons or ammunition to Ukraine and has sought to avoid being dragged into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia.

At the same time, however, it is massively reinforcing the security of member countries near Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

Around 40,000 troops are on stand-by from Estonia in the north down to Romania on the Black Sea.

About 100 aircraft take to the skies in that territory each day, and a total of 27 warships are operating in the Baltic and Mediterranean Seas, with those numbers set to rise.

Under its new plans, Nato aims to have up to 300,000 troops ready to move to its eastern flank within 30 days.

The plans divide its territory into three zones – the high north and Atlantic area, a zone north of the Alps, and another in southern Europe.

Admiral Bauer said Nato’s new planning is based on the strength of the Russian army before President Vladimir Putin launched the war on Ukraine almost 17 months ago.

He said the war has depleted Russia’s army, but not its navy or air force.

Of Russia’s ground forces, around “94% is now engaged in the war in Ukraine”, he added.

“What we see in general is that the Russians are careful around Nato. They are not seeking a conflict with Nato. I think that is a sign that they are very, very busy,” he said.

“In the land domain, I don’t think they have a lot of forces available to do anything to anyone else.

“But we are convinced that the Russians are going to reconstitute.

“We will continue to look at them as a serious threat, in the maritime, and in the air especially, and in space, they are still very, very, capable, let alone of course in nuclear.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nato-prepares-military-plans-to-defend-against-bruised-but-unbowed-russia/ar-AA1dmi9h?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b1c6ca8077a548468daf88858349f7ce&ei=11

Skybird

07-03-23, 11:00 AM

Schoigu claims that in Zaporizha and near Donezk alone as many Leopards have been destroyed as were supplied by Poland and Portugal combined. That would then be 16 or 18, if I recall correctly.

------------

From a captured trench in the south, a Ukrainian soldier speaks out via the messenger "Telegram". He is the commander of a Ukrainian unit trying to break through Russian defense lines in the south:

"We are forced to stay on this position again. The trench is full of bodies of the Russians. We have been trying to sleep, to rest. We have been sleeping on corpses. I have never had such an experience. But is it soft. I can say that much."

[Focus]

Exocet25fr

07-03-23, 11:20 AM

Shoigu said on Monday that Ukraine has lost 16 Leopard tanks and 3 AMX-10RCs in a journey.......:doh:

mapuc

07-03-23, 11:22 AM

Exocet25fr

07-03-23, 11:50 AM

It seems type Leopard type 2A4

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/07/03/Russia-destroyed-all-Leopard-tanks-supplied-to-Ukraine-by-Poland-Portugal-Shoigu

mapuc

07-03-23, 12:49 PM

It seems type Leopard type 2A4

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/07/03/Russia-destroyed-all-Leopard-tanks-supplied-to-Ukraine-by-Poland-Portugal-Shoigu

If true, then it certainly is a lost, not only for Ukraine, but for Europe. Leopard 2A4/6 is consider being one of the world best tank.

The war also shows me that tanks seems to be another equipment that is becoming obsolete.

What kind of tanks we will see in the future I don't know maybe there will not be any tanks.

Markus

Jimbuna

07-03-23, 12:55 PM

No tank in the world is invulnerable to every offensive weapon so I don't understand why it is such a biggie for some people.

Dargo

07-03-23, 02:20 PM

I think this time the guy is off a bit.

He is basing on an implication he sets up in the beginning. Russia has huge reserves not just in crack troops, but also in top class weapon systems, an dit deicxded to just burn upo the bad troops and low grade stuff first. BTW, there are precedences for this kind of military logic being put into practice, but okay, lets leave it to that hint.

Here is the problem I have with him this time. I never imp0lied that the resrves of Russia are "grade one troops" and "top class equipement". I made the point, repeatedly, that even inferior, outdated stuff still makes a boom and can kill people and dxestroy tanks. We know that many of Russia's previously proclaimed elite units took a bloody beating in the ealry weeks and months of the war, practically seized to exist. We know thta many unprepared recruits and untrained men got thrown into the trenches. We know that in their current defence scheme, cionssting of three main lines and before that a line pof outposts, they have placed their better troops in the rear, and their cannon fooder in the front. We believe we know that the Ukrainains have engaged the very first defence line - the one behind the forward outposts - just at one location so far, else have fought bitterly with these outposts designed not to stop but to delay them, like the first line also is just for delay, and that Russian air power is coming down on them hard and that they time and again get bogged down up in minefields.

You do not need, apparenbtly, top class equipment and reserve troops to do this to the Ukrainians, it seems. This is where the video is misleading.

Also, the Russians have learned, they have adapted, they have copied the Ukrainians. They started with having underestimated drones in all there many forms and purposes. Now their drone warfare dominates that of the Ukrainians.

I think the guy is too caught up in the traditional thinking here.

If the Ukrainaisn manage to contact the thiord eefnce line, then we will learn whetehr theyx cna accheive a breakthrough, becasue the third line in mosgt places seems to be the one where the Russians have placed their remaining best troops and those with experiences.

Superior numbers, even of inferior quality, have their own charm.

The Russians still maintain complete units alomng their very long border to Asia/China, and towards Europe, btw. Theoretically here is even more material that could be moved to Ukraine.

A full mobilization is seen as risky for Putin, it might upset the population. Still: possible it still is.

And lets not forget: in the Ukrainian East the Russians are advancing along four attack axis currently.

One thing is certain: as things stand right now, the Russian still can afford high losses better and easier than the Ukrainians. And thats the core of the problem.Why did we not see any army reserve in Russia during Operation 1 day to Moscow, only what we saw was regional security nothing of that vast stock of armor if it is all in Ukraine and after more than 9 months it could only take Bakhmut with those reserves (offensives are won by reserves) than superior numbers will not work it has not since 24 Feb 2022 not because of the numbers but because the Russian army has bad leadership that ignores problems. There are many main are supply and how they treat their people with both not solved they can not win hope on the west doing... will not help any more Ukraine army is too big to be destroyed in the west we thought it would not last long in 2022 that small army is totally changed is vastly better and bigger fighting forces in Europe there is no other army to compare with. We can only watch and learn how you do war.

Dargo

07-03-23, 02:26 PM

The war also shows me that tanks seems to be another equipment that is becoming obsolete.Tanks, like artillery will not become obsolete it will adapt every action will have a reaction.

Skybird

07-03-23, 02:34 PM

They do not have many of these, and it was expected that they would make a bigger difference than it seems they can - since they mostly get taken out by mines and air strikes. At the same time a Ukrianian commander bitterly complained baout the French AMX-10 tanks he got, he said they have nice weapon and good optics, but they gets laughtered at the front since they are too thinly armoured. I wonder what we should take from that regarding the 100 Leopard-1A5 the German want to deliver until the end of this year. Leo-1s by today's standard ar medium tanks - at best.

Russia can afford losses. Ukraine not. Simple math.

Ukriane desperately needs a breakthrough somewhere, a real one that deserve the name and gets the Russians run left and side of the breach, not what there is now. 37sqkm were liberated, the Ukrainian defence ministry says. Now consider the time it took them and the losses it took them, and then project this ratio into the future. The you see that this way they will not get very far - the front is over 1000km long and almost one fifth of Ukraine is occupied. By shere numbers, these 37sqkm make no difference, are irrelevant. Its a third of the island of Sylt.

The Ukrainians need a massive, decisive breakthrough. Else all is lost.

I never took the Leopards as invincible, I expected losses, and over months of combat even signficanbt, high losses. But the speed at which he Russians sort them out, is a bit shocking. The -bradleys also were expected to make a bigger imnpact, in the Gulf war more Iraqi tanks got destroyed by Bradleys' TOWs than by Abrams. We do not know whether or not the Bradleys have dished out, but it could be that already now 30-40% of the Bradleys are gone. And except in one place the Ukrainians do not even fight the Russians first line (of three)!

The time is not my concern so much, not yet. But the high losses, they are a big problem, me thinks.

Dargo

07-03-23, 02:41 PM

They do not have many of these, and it was expected that they would make a bigger difference than it seems they can - since they mostly get taken out by mines and air strikes. At the same time a Ukrianian commander bitterly complained baout the French AMX-10 tanks he got, he said they have nice weapon and good optics, but they gets laughtered at the front since they are too thinly armoured. I wonder what we should take from that regarding the 100 Leopard-1A5 the German want to deliver until the end of this year. Leo-1s by today's standard ar medium tanks - at best.

Russia can afford losses. Ukraine not. Simple math.

Ukriane desperately needs a breakthrough somewhere, a real one that deserve the name and gets the Russians run left and side of the breach, not what there is now. 37sqkm were liberated, the Ukrainian defence ministry says. Now consider the time it took them and the losses it took them, and then project this ratio into the future. The you see that this way they will not get very far - the front is over 900km long and almost one fifth of Ukraine is occupied. By shere numbers, these 37sqkm make no dofference, are irrelevant.

The Ukrainians need a massive, decisive breakthrough. Else all is lost.

I never took the Leopards as invincible, I expected losses, and over months of combat even signficanbt, high losses. But the speed at which he Russians sort them out, is a bit shocking. The -bradleys also were expected to make a bigger imnpact, in the Gulf war more Iraqi tanks got destroyed by Bradleys' TOWs than by Abrams. We do not know whether or not the Bradleys have dished out, but it could be that already now 30-40% of the Bradleys are gone. And except in one place the Ukrainians do not even fight the Russians first line (of three)!

The time is not my concern so much, not yet. But the high losses, they are a big problem, me thinks.It is the minefields that cause the tanks becoming sitting ducks for Russian artillery.

Skybird

07-03-23, 02:51 PM

Dargo

07-03-23, 02:55 PM

And gunships, helicopters. The yopen fire for ranges at which the few air defences of Ukraine have no worth and manpads cannot reach them (nor see them).

Thats also the reason why the Russians keep firing at cities. To keep the more potent air defences locked in place instead of them moving to the front.It is not all doom, Russians have deployed their reserves to stop the Ukrainian advance while Ukrainians still haven't deployed their main force.

mapuc

07-03-23, 02:57 PM

Makes one wonder if F16 would make any different on the battle front ?

Their AMRAAM 120 D can hit these K 52 Helicopters.

Markus

Dargo

07-03-23, 03:12 PM

Makes one wonder if F16 would make any different on the battle front ?

Their AMRAAM 120 D can hit these K 52 Helicopters.

MarkusIf there are F-16s deployed, those K-52 helicopters will not be in the air.

Skybird

07-03-23, 03:15 PM

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/oesterreichischer-militaeroberst-die-erste-phase-der-offensive-ist-gescheitert-nun-aendert-kiew-die-strategie_id_198114383.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Col. Reisner. In his view the first phase of the offensive was a failure. But the Ukrainians tried to adapt, and seem to have successfully changed tactics.

If that change is successful, then I would make a drop in own losses the criterion to evaluate it, and then we should see such a drop in losses. If this comes not at the cost of a standstill, but a - though slow - advance, then I see the chance that the Ukrainians nevertheless still can make something out of this offensive. The Russian defence zone along the front is 25-35 km deep, its not reaching back from the front to the coast.

Skybird

07-03-23, 03:41 PM

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Die-erste-Phase-der-Offensive-ist-gescheitert-article24233594.html

The video.

I could not link a translated website version, because then the video link would not get whitelisted.

mapuc

07-03-23, 03:47 PM

Video geo-blocked.

The article is readable.

Edit
This is the text I get
"Leider ist dieses Video nicht verfügbar. Grund könnte Ihr aktueller Standort sein."
End edit

Markus

Skybird

07-03-23, 03:56 PM

Video geo-blocked.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXAFehhanQupk4WHaP8_8IRdwgwfHYH wMTJQ&usqp=CAU

tonschk

07-03-23, 05:33 PM

NATO Support Fails to Yield Results, Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Stalls with Heavy Losses and No Gains

https://frontierindia.com/nato-support-fails-to-yield-results-ukraines-counteroffensive-stalls-with-heavy-losses-and-no-gains/

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2307040402430298.png (https://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=2307040402430298.png)

Skybird

07-03-23, 06:09 PM

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says Turkey “will not back down” on its opposition to Sweden joining NATO until all of its “demands are met.”
Erdogan said his country's expectations were made clear and that "we defend the same principles that we defended last year." [CNN]

Last week the Swedes allowed a single Iraqi migrant to rip a Koran apart although they must have known that then they could forget NATO membership for many more months to come. I must conclude that they are not so eager as they claim to get in.

The right procedurer would have been to not let that man go ahead, pour honey into Erdoghan'S ears, get the membership treaty signed - and then burn the Koran. Its called: pragmatism.

I think it is time to let American and European supplies and repair goods for the Turkish armed forces suffer from unexplained mysterious failures and problems in the logistics networks. The stock market could also be a suitable stage to discreetly send a message of the growing threat. The Turkish currency does not do too well, it was heard. Throwing one more incendiary device into this fire could - heaven forbid - cause the flames to leap up again in the private sector, triggering unforeseeable additional damage and bringing an intensification of the struggle for existence of ordinary citizens and small businessmen.

Skybird

07-04-23, 03:16 AM

https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/internationales/analysten-ordnen-gegenoffensive-der-ukraine-ein-es-war-klar-dass-man-mit-18-leopard-2-nicht-den-krieg-gewinnt-10089127.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

No air cover for Ukrainians. Both Russian fixed wing CAS as well as helicopters go down on them. No visible weakening of Russian defences. Also, jamming seems to ave become a rela problem now, the Russians got their acts together finally. American JDAMs and other ammuntiion depending on GPS, now often go amiss, with their nayvjugation link to the sdatellites beign jammed. Thats why the Ukrainians want so desperately more British Storm Shadows and the German Taurus, since these have alternative systems for navigation allowing them to even find their targets without satellite link.

Col Reisner listed four brigades by name that so far had not participated in the fights, but some of their artillery batallions have now been moved forward. In reverse conclusion that means that of 12 attack brigades, eight already are engaged.

-------------------------------

In order to persuade Russia to extend the grain agreement with Ukraine, the EU is considering possible concessions. According to diplomats, the idea is to offer the Russian Agricultural Bank to tolerate circumvention of EU sanctions. This could therefore found a subsidiary in order to be able to use the international financial communication network Swift again for the processing of certain payments. The bank itself is currently not allowed to do this due to sanctions due to the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine. [WN]

Jimbuna

07-04-23, 04:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrl1rf55yc

Jimbuna

07-04-23, 04:56 AM

A shocking video shows how the dead and wounded from Vladimir Putin’s war dead are moved by helicopter to annexed Crimea - as tourists swim in the sea.

The summer playground peninsula has become a key route for Russia as the Kremlin tries to hide the scale of its war losses from its own people.

The footage shows three ambulances waiting for the latest two helicopter flights back from the front in the Kherson region.

Meanwhile tourists splash in the Black Sea seemingly untroubled as the victims of Putin’s war are flown to a military base close to their beach.

Reports say Crimea is being used increasingly to hospitalise the war wounded as the Kremlin's boys are pummelled during Ukraine’s counteroffensive.

Numbers are so high that locals cannot get treatment in the annexed territory’s clinics, it has been reported.

Russia routinely seeks to hide the toll of dead and maimed soldier from its people.

“It is difficult for me to talk about the nature of the diseases or injuries that Russian servicemen receive,” said Refat Chubarov, a senior figure in the Crimean Tatar community.

“But the fact is that almost all the moderately or seriously wounded are evacuated to Crimea, and not only local military but also civilian hospitals.”

The dead - known as Cargo 200 - are moved here too alongside the wounded, Cargo 300.

The trend may indicate Russia expects to be pushed back from Kherson region by the Ukrainian advance.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/vladimir-putin-s-war-dead-unloaded-onto-beach-from-skies-as-tourists-swim-in-sea/ar-AA1doAKK?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=8b85815b8c83425daff8cf6ff4d75dc9&ei=14

tonschk

07-04-23, 07:34 AM

Scott Ritter - Ukraine's ill-Fated Offensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwijiOJflM

Jimbuna

07-04-23, 08:20 AM

Scott Ritter, the American author, pundit, former United States Marine Corps intelligence officer, former United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) weapons inspector, and a convicted sex offender.

Would fit in well amongst the ranks of the Russian invaders.

sh3rules

07-04-23, 04:00 PM

The trend may indicate Russia expects to be pushed back from Kherson region by the Ukrainian advance.

Hopefully Ukraine will get plenty of ammo and equipment to drive the invaders out :/\\x:

tonschk

07-05-23, 03:56 AM

Ukraine Loses 500 Fighters as Russia Unleashes TOS-1 Flamethrowers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfbmdMPZVI

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 05:48 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eLJc3XDo1U

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 05:55 AM

Skybird

07-05-23, 06:01 AM

No surprise, if true. Russia runs scorched earth policies. What they cannot steal and keep, they destroy. And the nuclear contamination of farmland and soil deals another blow to Ukrainian agriculture - and strengthens the world position of Russian wheat exports.

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 06:41 AM

^ Yes and as things currently stand I now believe we are heading for a second Cold War which will last for decades.

Skybird

07-05-23, 08:29 AM

^ Yes and as things currently stand I now believe we are heading for a second Cold War which will last for decades.
Hasnt that been clear since a long time now, since this war began? Even since 2014? Or 2008?
The writing was on the wall. The West hoped for the better. Hopes are no strategy. We dropped clueless into the chaos, therefore.

tonschk

07-05-23, 09:00 AM

NATO's Plot Against Russia Fails

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2307051927400278.png (https://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=2307051927400278.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOhKaVVXj1U

Dargo

07-05-23, 10:31 AM

No longer gaining ground but 'maximum destruction of the Russian army' is now Ukraine's primary goal
inflicting as much damage as possible on the Russian army, rather than trying to gain a few kilometres of ground at a high material, but mostly human cost. The Ukrainian army seems to be shifting its focus in the counteroffensive, at least temporarily. The Ukrainian counteroffensive has been "particularly fruitful" in recent days. That message was delivered by Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council, on Tuesday. Danilov's optimism contrasts sharply with reports in recent weeks, in which Ukraine itself also acknowledged that the offensive against Russian forces in the south and east of the country was "slower than hoped".

But according to Danilov, the Ukrainian army is fulfilling its main tasks, which, at least for the moment, no longer seems to be liberating as much territory as possible. "At this stage of active hostilities, task number one of the Ukrainian defence force is the maximum destruction of manpower, equipment, fuel depots, military vehicles, command posts, artillery and air defences of the Russian army," Danilov said on Twitter. "The last few days have been particularly fruitful in this." That Ukraine appears to be shifting its focus is also the assessment of the US Institute for the Study of War (ISW). Ukraine still reports gradual gains in ground, for example on the flanks of Bakhmut, but "the armed forces seem to be focusing on creating an 'asymmetric attrition rate' (a higher degree of attrition on the Russian side than on the Ukrainian side, TT) by targeting Russian troops and equipment," the think tank's latest assessment sounds. "Ukrainian troops are spared, but at the expense of a slower pace in terrain gains." The intention in this way is to exhaust the Russian army so much that at some point it still has insufficient resources to defend the entire front - still 700 kilometres long - so that it collapses at a certain spot, after which Ukraine can break through there.

Ukraine appears to have effectively learned from the first weeks of the counteroffensive. Then attacks ran aground on the extensive minefields laid by Russia on the front. The stationary tanks and armoured vehicles, including Western-supplied Leopard tanks, then provided an easy target for Russian artillery and Ka-52 attack helicopters with anti-tank missiles. Therefore, until more advanced anti-aircraft defence comes from the West, it seems to make little sense for Ukraine to keep repeating such attacks, given the high cost in human lives and equipment they entail. Instead, it actively seeks out Russian artillery, for example, and then destroys it with precision munitions. "A war of destruction is equivalent to a war of kilometres," Danilov said. "More equipment destroyed ultimately means more liberated territory. The more effective the former, the more of the latter. We are moving forward calmly, smartly and step by step."

Danilov's assessment is supported by images from the field and figures from the Ukrainian General Staff, although these cannot be independently verified. Still, the evolution in itself is undeniable. Ukraine claims to have destroyed a total of 4,288 pieces of Russian artillery now, including more than 800 since 1 June alone. The specialist blog Oryx, which keeps daily track of losses on both sides based on available open-source images from the battlefield (and is thus an underestimate), provisionally puts it at 682 documented losses. So the actual figure is somewhere in between the two. Conversely, of course, the same thing is happening and Russia is looking for Ukrainian targets. Earlier this week, images appeared of a first broken British AS-90 howitzer, of which Ukraine received about 30.

The Russian air force is also being actively targeted. Last Friday, Ukraine strafed Berdjansk airport, deep in occupied territory on the Sea of Azov. In that attack, presumably carried out with British Storm Shadow missiles, a Russian headquarters was destroyed, according to the Ukrainian military. But the airport is also a key take-off and landing site for Russian attack helicopters, satellite images show. Whether these could have been hit is not clear.

Then on Tuesday evening, another large explosion took place in Makijivka near the city of Donetsk. Ukraine claims to have hit an ammunition depot in the process; Russian occupation authorities say there were 1 dead and 36 wounded civilians. Neither claim can be independently verified, but video footage shows how a large stockpile of Russian ammunition for rocket launchers was stored at that location. The fact that little ground is currently being gained is therefore "not an indication of a stalemate or evidence that Ukraine can no longer reclaim large chunks of territory," the ISW writes in conclusion. The 2022 autumn offensive on the eastern bank of the Dnieper in Cherson was also originally slow, until the Russian army suddenly decided to withdraw after weeks of intense Ukrainian shelling. "Even then, there were alternating phases of rapid terrain gains and long periods of preparations and fighting focused on wearing down the Russian army. Eventually, these made Russian positions on the western bank of the river untenable." https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/niet-langer-terreinwinst-maar-maximale-destructie-van-het-russische-leger-is-nu-primair-doel-van-oekraine~bfef9c28/

Catfish

07-05-23, 11:22 AM

Just when you may have been thinking the Russian criminal invaders had sunk to an all time low before the eyes of the civilised world....they have likely managed to lower the bar even further.

First the dam and now the nuclear plant. [...]
If Putin orders that it is time the world goes full in against Russia. First an environmental disaster with the dam and now an international radiation "incident" spreading all over the world like with Chernobyl?
Kill them before it is too late :nope:

mapuc

07-05-23, 11:29 AM

If Putin orders that it is time the world goes full in against Russia. First an environmental disaster with the dam and now an international radiation "incident" spreading all over the world like with Chernobyl?
Kill them before it is too late :nope:

If and when it is clear that Russia has plantet explosive on the roof of these 6 reactors and inside and they are going to blow it up, then I ask you-Will NATO intervene ?

Markus

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 12:14 PM

Dargo

07-05-23, 12:16 PM

If and when it is clear that Russia has plantet explosive on the roof of these 6 reactors and inside and they are going to blow it up, then I ask you-Will NATO intervene ?

MarkusThink this is one of Putin's power play with the West if he blows up the ZNPP and the West does nothing, it opens the path for Putin to use nuclear weapons think that is his plan. Do not know he will do it, hope the pressure of other countries will prevent that.

The six reactors at ZNPP are not at all like the Chernobyl reactor and cannot have the same kind of accident. Chernobyl had a graphite moderator, and the building it was in was not the heavily reinforced concrete of the reactors at ZNPP. The ZNPP reactors have hard oxide fuel encased in metal, and are inside a stainless steel vessel. Chernobyl had no such vessel. The Post mentions the possibliity of a Fukushima-type accident. The reactors at Fukushima operated right up until the earthquake. The ZNPP reactors have been mostly shut down for months. That means that the Fukushima reactors were much hotter, both thermally and radiologically, than the ZNPP reactors are now. Additionally, all control was lost at Fukushima. There are measures the ZNPP operators can take to mitigate such an accident. The current understanding is that the Fukushima release was less dangerous than was believed at the time. The evacuation turned out to be more dangerous. Any or all of the ZNPP reactors could be damaged so that they would need extensive repairs or could become useless without a radiation release. There is a spent fuel pond which is less protected, but it would take expert explosive rigging to disperse the fuel rods, and they would likely disperse in chunks in the immediate vicinity of the plant, not in a cloud. It’s harder to pulverize things with explosives than might appear from movies. https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2023/07/04/the-danger-at-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 12:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9XwfM62JqE

Rockstar

07-05-23, 12:28 PM

Think this is one of Putin's power play with the West if he blows up the ZNPP and the West does nothing, it opens the path for Putin to use nuclear weapons think that is his plan. Do not know he will do it, hope the pressure of other countries will prevent that.

IMO Putin is steadily losing the SMO, support of the Russian public and oligarchy. Destroying ZNPP I’m thinking he is trying his damndest to draw NATO into direct conflict in the hope it will rally support for him and full mobilization.

Dargo

07-05-23, 12:41 PM

IMO Putin is steadily losing the SMO, support of the Russian public and oligarchy. Destroying ZNPP I’m thinking he is trying his damndest to draw NATO into direct conflict in the hope it will rally support for him and full mobilization. yes he lost power the fear/trust for him is gone, so elite will try to get rid of him and I do not think the FSB wants him anymore they seek a way to install somebody else think the Wagner mutiny was backed by them the FSB knew it would happen and did nothing. It is also the FSB that feeds Putin, not the real situation in this war.

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 12:41 PM

IMO Putin is steadily losing the SMO, support of the Russian public and oligarchy. Destroying ZNPP I’m thinking he is trying his damndest to draw NATO into direct conflict in the hope it will rally support for him and full mobilization.

Well he'd better act quick before this eedjit takes control.

Joe Biden has been mocked for backing Ursula von der Leyen as the new NATO chief.

Former Armed Forces Minister and Tory MP Mark Francois described the EU Commission president as "an absolute disaster", claiming she has a "hapless" record from her time as Germany's defence minister.

Ms Von der Leyen is said to be the US President's first-choice candidate.

He is reportedly pushing for Ms Von der Leyen to take over as the head of NATO, just weeks after Ben Wallace's candidacy for the job was blocked by the White House.

He will now lead NATO until the autumn of 2024.

Mr Francois told the Daily Express: "VDL, as she is widely known, would be an absolute disaster as NATO Sec Gen; you only have to look at her record as Germany's hapless Defence Minister to see that."

He added: "Vladimir Putin must be laughing his head off at the thought."

Yesterday, NATO allies agreed a one-year extension for Jens Stoltenberg, who has served as secretary general of the alliance since October 2014.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/putin-must-be-laughing-biden-mocked-after-backing-disastrous-vdl-for-nato-chief/ar-AA1dsGv5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=749cdd8702de44f3a85c45b1d42a5de3&ei=12

tonschk

07-05-23, 01:02 PM

U.S. Confirms Ukraine Losing in Fightback Against Russia, Biden is 'Unimpressed And Unhappy'

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2307052317260313.png (https://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=2307052317260313.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1lldf3t18

Jimbuna

07-05-23, 01:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3UZwnUC5k

Dargo

07-05-23, 01:19 PM

Russia’s Oil and Gas Revenue Fell by Over a Quarter in June

Proceeds from oil and gas taxes declined to 529 billion rubles
Russia has been changing oil-tax system to boost revenue

Budget proceeds from oil and gas taxes dropped 26% in June from a year ago to almost 529 billion rubles ($5.84 billion), the Finance Ministry said Wednesday. Gas taxes fell 54% to 125.7 billion rubles, while proceeds from crude and petroleum products — which account for over 76% of hydrocarbon revenue — declined by almost a tenth to 402.8 billion rubles, according to Bloomberg calculations.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-05/russia-s-oil-and-gas-revenue-fell-by-over-a-quarter-in-june

Skybird

07-05-23, 01:22 PM

If Putin orders that it is time the world goes full in against Russia. First an environmental disaster with the dam and now an international radiation "incident" spreading all over the world like with Chernobyl?
Kill them before it is too late :nope:
If you compare Russian big cities and metropoles with American or European big cities and metropoles, and if you compare Western economy with Russian economy (the size of that of Italy), and compare Western population size with Russian population size - which side then has more to lose in a nuclear exchange...?

We should give Ukraine back its nuclear weapons for which we gave them guarantees that later we (including Russia) then betrayed. Lets just correct that mistake, and see Russians starting to think twice all by themselves.

Dargo

07-05-23, 01:37 PM

Maxim Tucker explains how a young Ukrainian boy from the Donbas infiltrated Russia’s military, taking out dozens of Russian soldiers right under Putin’s nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVSi6pTKZOc

Skybird

07-05-23, 01:38 PM

Ukraine says it is spending more on defense this year than it had in its entire budget at all before the war. Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal says on television that the defense budget will be 1.8 trillion hryvnia ($49 billion). In contrast, the budget before the war was 1.3 trillion hryvnias. Foreign aid this year has amounted to $23 billion. [Spiegel]

Comparison: Germany just has planned 52 billion for defence in its next state budget. Considering how much both countries make of their defence budgets, the Germans with their 3 bn more should feel ashamed.

However, the European aid delieveries, namely weapons and ammo, mostly were given for free, AFAIK. The Americans gave much of their stuff for bills that later have to be paid, AFAIK.

Dargo

07-05-23, 01:48 PM

Prigozhin arrives in St Petersburg, takes back seized weapons

Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of the Wagner Private Military Company (PMC), personally arrived in St Petersburg on 4 July, where the weapons seized during the searches were returned to him.

Source: Russian media outlet Fontanka with reference to sources

Quote: "On 4 July, at 17:00, a 7-Series BMW and a Land Cruiser with security guards accompanying it drove up to the building of the Federal Security Service Department of St Petersburg and [Leningrad] Oblast on Liteyny Prospekt.

According to Fontanka, the motorcade was parked near Shpalernaya Street, 25. The back door of the BMW opened, Yevgeny Prigozhin got out and, after walking just a few metres, opened the massive doors with the sign ‘Reception’ to the right of them.

Details: According to the outlet, on Tuesday, Prigozhin was returned two Saiga rifles, an Austrian Steyr Mannlicher rifle, an AR semi-automatic rifle and several other rifles and pistols.

Soon he got out, and the people accompanying him took out their rifles and put them in the car. The motorcade left.

A few hours earlier, the leader of Wagner PMC was officially invited to take back his weapons found during the searches on 24 June and seized in his country residence in the elite cottage village of Northern Versailles. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/5/7409917/

Then you ask how weak Putin is, how can he allow exile Prigozhin back in Russia.

Catfish

07-05-23, 04:27 PM

Some pretty russian fireworks from 0:40 on

"Footage of the attack in Makeevka yesterday. Russian forces stored a lot of ammunition in the yard of an unfinished residential area which caused an explosion.
Not Hospital #2 but an ammuniton site created by your forces right next to it, professional liar Denis Pushilin."

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1676498464862097409

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 05:10 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wALdKCM0ixc

Skybird

07-06-23, 05:30 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-us-officials-secret-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610

How does this look for Ukrainian eyes...?

Two thigns I do not like: first, the Ukrainians are not involved, second I wonder whether Putin really allows "track 2" personnel acting in his regime as pendants to the American crew.

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 05:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90uaRLY5zKE

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 07:13 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBfs8S-8AV8

mapuc

07-06-23, 08:56 AM

I don't believe NATO will put troops on the ground in Ukraine.
That said I don't know if NATO will intervene if Russia do threaten to blow up nuclear powerplant.

False flag, no this is not in the nature of Ukraine to do so. They would lose a lot more than winning on it.

Markus

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 09:03 AM

Desperate Putin sends rusting tanks 'as ancient as woolly mammoth’s poo' into Ukraine.(video in link)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/desperate-putin-sends-rusting-tanks-as-ancient-as-woolly-mammoth-s-poo-into-ukraine/ar-AA1dtlQJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a3d549c744ec4854ac60c254d84df8ad&ei=18

Skybird

07-06-23, 09:48 AM

They use old tanks since long time now - in fixed positions as stationary artillery (with greater resistance to secondary effects of enemy shelling than plain howitzers or self propelled astillery).

And what should one say. Their defence lines hold so far.

Those guns still make Boom, and where their rounds impact it still makes Bang. Plenty of targets out there that these old callibres still can penetrate. Even MBTs, if hit right. Certainly IFVs and APCs.

I become more and more pessimistic. I think the Ukrainians will not make it to the coast of the Asov Sea. I would not complain to be shown wrong by time. This offensive will fade out with some minor territorial gains of no real strategic importance and then frozen frontlines. That scenario I now give 60-70% probability.

They had a too bad start, trying to implement US doctrine of assault with amassed mechanised forces. The thing that was terribly violating that doctrine is that the doctrine wants this to be done under air cover if not air superiority. The Ukraine has none. The result was messy. The costs are felt. Mine clearing equipment is short in supply already now - and they are not even up to - not to mention: through - the first defence line of the Russians. I do not see how they could fulfill Zelensky's claim to "liberate all occupied territories", including Crimea.

That masses of Russian tourists storm Crimea for holiday, speaks volumes.

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 12:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4_dyolxTWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOL3bFcg_FY

Exocet25fr

07-06-23, 12:26 PM

US plans to supply Ukraine with cluster munitions :hmmm:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-expected-provide-cluster-munitions-ukraine-nyt-2023-07-06/

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 12:39 PM

Kyiv are now reporting the Russians may have 'faked out# the Ukrainians by planting false explosives at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

I bloody well hope so.

Jeff-Groves

07-06-23, 12:49 PM

So.....
Are We now to the stage of False FALSE FLAGS?
:hmmm:

Jimbuna

07-06-23, 12:56 PM

Dargo

07-06-23, 12:58 PM

Military formations drawn from across Russia are currently bearing the brunt of Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
In Zaporizhzhia Oblast, the 58th Combined Arms Army is defending heavily entrenched lines; normally it secures Russia’s volatile Caucasus region. Around Velyka Novosilka, the 5th Combined Arms Army and Naval Infantry hold the front; they are routinely based, 7000 km away as a balance to Chinese power.
Around Bakhmut, the defence is now largely formed around airborne regiments normally stationed in western Russia, who normally act as an elite rapid reaction force in case of tensions with NATO. The way Russia is accepting risks across Eurasia highlights how the war has dislocated Russia’s established national strategy.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMVbvZBm/F0-VK23-BXo-AA9-Qd-D.jpg

Jeff-Groves

07-06-23, 12:59 PM

Meh. Give it time and We'll see a False, False, FALSE FLAG.
:doh:

Dargo

07-06-23, 01:00 PM

Christ only knows but I did read an article earlier where a so-called nuclear 'expert' stated that in the event of a reactor being blown up in his opinion the fallout would be about twenty miles max. I still wouldn't like to chance it though.The six reactors at ZNPP are not at all like the Chernobyl reactor and cannot have the same kind of accident. Chernobyl had a graphite moderator, and the building it was in was not the heavily reinforced concrete of the reactors at ZNPP. The ZNPP reactors have hard oxide fuel encased in metal, and are inside a stainless steel vessel. Chernobyl had no such vessel. The Post mentions the possibliity of a Fukushima-type accident. The reactors at Fukushima operated right up until the earthquake. The ZNPP reactors have been mostly shut down for months. That means that the Fukushima reactors were much hotter, both thermally and radiologically, than the ZNPP reactors are now. Additionally, all control was lost at Fukushima. There are measures the ZNPP operators can take to mitigate such an accident. The current understanding is that the Fukushima release was less dangerous than was believed at the time. The evacuation turned out to be more dangerous. Any or all of the ZNPP reactors could be damaged so that they would need extensive repairs or could become useless without a radiation release. There is a spent fuel pond which is less protected, but it would take expert explosive rigging to disperse the fuel rods, and they would likely disperse in chunks in the immediate vicinity of the plant, not in a cloud. It’s harder to pulverize things with explosives than might appear from movies. https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2023/07/04/the-danger-at-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/

Dargo

07-06-23, 02:40 PM

Jimbuna

07-07-23, 05:48 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFsKKwax2o

tonschk

07-07-23, 06:03 AM

UKRAINIAN NAZI COMMANDER KILLS HIS OWN SOLDIERS BECAUSE REFUSING FIGHT

Ukrainian neo nazi commander kills own troops after they refuse to battle Russian Forces.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/bPd76uksc5Xr/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zzaa4DqAhjqx/

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2307071629180318.png (https://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=2307071629180318.png)

tonschk

07-07-23, 06:23 AM

MASSIVE EXPLOSIONS AS NAZI UKRAINIAN ARMOUR VEHICLES GETS TORN APART BY RUSSIAN STRIKES

https://www.bitchute.com/video/soBOJeBuvIk7/

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2307071648560315.png (https://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=2307071648560315.png)

Jimbuna

07-07-23, 06:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOWoGpqg1I

mapuc

07-07-23, 06:28 AM

^ I doubt it. I'm sure these nukes are under Russian control.

Markus

Reece

07-07-23, 06:37 AM

Big boys and their toys!! :roll: What business is it of theirs in the first place!!! :down:
Belarus/Lukashenko is a Russian puppet! :roll:

Jimbuna

07-07-23, 06:41 AM

^ I doubt it. I'm sure these nukes are under Russian control.

Markus

Agreed, he couldn't get his army to fight anyone other than the population that opposes his dictatorship.

Reece

07-07-23, 06:43 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3edi2Wkr5YI

Jimbuna

07-07-23, 07:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ymMQ6X4Ac

mapuc

07-07-23, 09:35 AM

LEAK: Latin American countries push back on Ukraine, EU agenda ahead of joint summit

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/leak-latin-american-countries-push-back-on-ukraine-eu-agenda-ahead-of-joint-summit/

Markus

Jimbuna

07-07-23, 11:16 AM

They have clearly taken the side of the Russian invaders which isn't all that hard when it's not your country that is being destroyed or your women being raped and children abducted.

Dargo

07-07-23, 11:25 AM

^ I doubt it. I'm sure these nukes are under Russian control.

MarkusDo not doubt it, those weapons can only be launched by Russia itself, and it is not so easy either it is not press a button, and it will deploy. Those weapons need assembly, armed all by engineers that know how to do that, Belarus has not that knowledge.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/leak-latin-american-countries-push-back-on-ukraine-eu-agenda-ahead-of-joint-summit/

MarkusName me one Latin American country that could be useful to Ukraine IMO there are none, this continent is not important can not expect any weapons or money coming to help Ukraine.

Ukraine has been sounding the alarm for weeks that Russia has mined the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant with the intention of destroying all the cooling equipment. Russia then plans to say that Ukraine is responsible for destroying the plant. Kremlin State TV has also released videos and pictures of the FSB's raids on Prigozhin's home and office, resulting is some very bizarre photographs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pit4CIrolL8

Aktungbby

07-07-23, 12:06 PM

Name me one Latin American country that could be useful to Ukraine IMO there are none, this continent is not important can not expect any weapons or money coming to help Ukraine. DONE! and in a submarine forum to boot :D Columbia, Surinam and Guiana BBY!!!:yeah: https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.N6eZNqADy9JlWCOujVSbOwHaF-?pid=ImgDet&rs=1 https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/8D92/production/_129424263_capture4.png.webp<In addition to seizures in Russia, Norway recently made its largest-ever seizure of cocaine at the end of March while police in Galicia, Spain, found Europe’s second-ever narco-submarine, capable of carrying 5 tons of cocaine. In fact, it's thought hundreds of homemade submarines have been launched towards Europe, which is the biggest cocaine market after the US, and one that's growing rapidly after a Covid pandemic slump.

It's even said that in the middle of the Atlantic, around the Canary Islands and the Azores, there lies a mass graveyard of cocaine submarines, deliberately sunk after their cargo had been successfully unloaded.

Each covert mission would have been a huge triumph for the teams of mechanics quietly constructing their vessels in the depths of the South American jungle, mostly in Guyana and Suriname. https://insightcrime.org/news/russia-emerges-as-alternative-route-for-latin-america-cocaine-europe/
Yulia Vorobyeva, a professor at Florida International University and an expert on drug trafficking and organized crime, told InSight Crime that "cocaine is distributed from St. Petersburg and Moscow, which are the two logistical centers ... from where it is transported in trucks to other countries in Europe.” St. Petersburg is the only major maritime port of entry for cocaine into the country, she added.

Vorobyeva also said that "Russia's role as a transit country could be growing," but it remains to be seen to what degree. Efforts to stem the flow in more traditional ports such as Antwerp -- the dominant point of entry for cocaine into Europe -- and Rotterdam could be one reason behind the increasing amount of cocaine arriving in Russia. @ DargoBBY U have been corrected in true :subsim: style! incl. one submersible!!??:arrgh!:

Aktungbby

07-07-23, 12:13 PM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-war-iii-virus-vaccine-biological-weapon-russia-ukraine-china-covid-cybersecurity-hack-162a8b08 Vladimir Putin’s losses in Ukraine and the rebellion of the Wagner Group have increased the chances that the Russian president will lash out and expand the 17-month-old conflict. But World War III may not be what you expect. The current paradigm of escalating nuclear conflict was articulated 60 years ago by physicist Herman Kahn, founder of the Hudson institute, but other technologies have come a long way since then. Conventional guns, bombs, missiles or troops may not figure in World War III at all. Biological and computer viruses are likely to be the weapon of choice. Covid wasn’t a deliberate attack, but it quickly and successfully damaged the American economy. Any nation thinking of using a deadly virus as a weapon of war would first need to immunize its own people, perhaps under the guise of a flu vaccination. Long-term population-level immunity would require the virus be sufficiently optimized, before release, to reduce the probability of further mutation.

The novel coronavirus was sufficiently optimized so that no serious mutations occurred for nine months. The Delta variant appeared in India in October 2020. A weaponized virus would also need to incorporate an immune suppression gene—Covid had ORF8—that reduces early symptoms, facilitating spread by asymptomatic carriers. For a covert attack to be successful, the virus would need to be released not in the country of origin but in the target country, perhaps near a biological facility so the world would falsely conclude it came as a leak from a surreptitious domestic program.

Recall that early Covid panic came from Italy’s inability to care for all of its infected patients. Thus, for maximum disruption, the second thrust of any aggression might be a cyber attack on hospitals, perhaps disguised as ransomware. Again, the trick would be to make it seem as if the attack were originating outside the aggressor’s country. In other contexts this is called a “false flag” operation. The target country might not even recognize it as part of a two-front, synergistic attack of biological and computer viruses.

Ransomware could simultaneously target energy grids, power plants, factories, refineries, trains, airlines, shipping, banking, water supplies, sewage-treatment plants and more. But hospitals would be the most salient targets. Avoiding obvious military targets would enhance the illusion that World War III hadn’t begun. The attacker or attackers might falsely claim their own systems are also under siege. Misdirection can be more effective than a smoke screen.

This isn’t some far-fetched disaster scenario cooked up by Hollywood screenwriters. Biological and cyber viruses have been, in a sense, field tested. The great value to the attacker of a two-pronged biological and cyber attack is the possibility of achieving destructive goals while keeping the whole operation covert.

Deterring such an attack will require a clear, credible and articulated promise to respond to aggression. It can’t be covert. If China, Russia or both attacked the U.S. this way, how would we react? Policy makers need to come up with an answer. An economic embargo seems suboptimal. Many would interpret nuclear retaliation as disproportionate. Developing a retaliatory virus would take time, and responding this way would clearly violate the Biological Weapons Convention.

Defense matters too. It is essential to be able to develop vaccines rapidly using a viral backbone so that they can be retargeted with minimal additional testing. Hospitals and other critical infrastructure need to harden their cyber defenses. ....good to know I'm 5 vaccinations into WW III alreaady??!!:o

If deterrence fails and an attack takes place, correctly identifying the perpetrator has to be the first priority. This may or may not be easy, but retaliating against the wrong actor risks making an already bad situation worse. Reopening the Covid-19 origin investigation would provide good practice. Confiscation of the foreign assets of the attacking nation could be effective. A strong cyberattack capability aimed at the enemy’s military and industry is key. Hospitals should be spared, lest the victim of an attack appear to become the aggressor and lose the moral high ground.

There are many reasons why an adversary may want to launch a covert attack on the U.S. economy. America’s leaders need to take seriously the prospect that their country could be defeated without being invaded or even knowing it is under attack. The way to deter such an attack is to convince potentially hostile actors that success is impossible and the consequences for the attacker will be swift and severe. The U.S. needs to make it clear that its commitments to North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies, Ukraine, Taiwan and others won’t waver even if the American economy falters.

Dargo

07-07-23, 12:33 PM

DONE! and in a submarine forum to boot :D Columbia, Surinam and Guiana BBY!!!:yeah: https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.N6eZNqADy9JlWCOujVSbOwHaF-?pid=ImgDet&rs=1 https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/8D92/production/_129424263_capture4.png.webp<In addition to seizures in Russia, Norway recently made its largest-ever seizure of cocaine at the end of March while police in Galicia, Spain, found Europe’s second-ever narco-submarine, capable of carrying 5 tons of cocaine. https://insightcrime.org/news/russia-emerges-as-alternative-route-for-latin-america-cocaine-europe/
@ DargoBBY U have been corrected in true :subsim: style! incl. one submersible!!??:arrgh!::D I hope it all goes to Russia live myself in Rotterdam at least every week I repair the damage of this traffic. Know Suriname as it was our former colony can tell that country can never military help Ukraine and what they got in money they spent it to their own pocket.

We are in a Distinct Phase of the Ukrainian Counteroffensive
And the Ukrainians are in no rush

After a brief and nonsensical flurry of articles and claims that the Ukrainian counteroffensive was failing, things seem to have settled down. That is good, as people have recalibrated their expectations of where the Ukrainians are in their counteroffensive and, just as important, how long it might take until their present operations moves from the destruction phase to once again attempt some operational maneuver. To understand that, its probably best to talk about what phase we are in now. Something quite stark has happened in what the Ukrainians are targeting over the last few weeks. They have upped enormously the amount of effort they are devoting to the destruction of Russian artillery and MLRS systems. The increase is stark, and on average it seems that Ukrainian claims (used as a relative measure of effort—not as gospel truth for the number of units destroyed) has gone up by almost 200%. If you look at the claims of the Ukrainian high command as of this morning, you will see that they say they have destroyed 4330 Russian artillery systems and 658 MLRS systems since February 24, 2022. That works out to almost exactly 10 systems per day (4988 systems destroyed in 497 days).

https://i.postimg.cc/6qxdc0nn/0b00ec5f-5328-40d6-bbeb-a62dd68a4afe-752x452.png

But if you look at how many systems the Ukrainians have claimed to destroy since June 20, you will see how many more per day they are now saying are being hit. Its not just one or two days, its a much higher rate of destruction on every day (except for June 28). Overall, Ukraine claims to have destroyed 492 Russian artillery systems in 17 days—almost 29 per day. https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/we-are-in-a-distinct-phase-of-the?sd=pf

The dutch cabinet has failed to agree on measures to reduce the influx of asylum seekers, sources around the cabinet report. This marks the end of the Rutte IV cabinet.

I hope this will not have a sizeable impact on aid to Ukraine.

mapuc

07-07-23, 01:53 PM

After heavy losses at Klishchiivka, south of Bakhmut, a Russian elite airborne brigade notorious for atrocities at Bucha was forced to make a chaotic retreat under fire, suffering more casualties, and some survivors were detained for refusing orders to immediately return to combat, Russian open-source site CIT says citing Russian reports....

https://twitter.com/ArmedMaidan/status/1677373544672419861

Markus

Skybird

07-07-23, 01:54 PM

Dargo

07-07-23, 02:12 PM

Thats all nice and well - but no word on how high the Ukrainian losses are regarding own artillery.

One year ago, in July I think, it was reported that Russian artillery pieces by numbers were superior by a factor of up to 20:1. Just saying. One year has passed since then, but still...

The cluster amunition now gets delivered by the US because conventional artillery grenades are running low and production cannot meet demand.Ukraine and Russia's tank numbers are now roughly equal to one another's, Bloomberg reported Thursday, citing the Kiel Institute for the World Economy and the Oryx open-source analysis website. The figures underscore the extent to which Russia's advantage in heavy weapons has been reduced since it sent troops into Ukraine over 16 months ago.

According to the Kiel Institute's Ukraine Support Tracker, Russia has lost over 2,000 of the 3,417 tanks which it used to invade Ukraine in February 2022. Oryx estimates that the Russian army now has about 1,400 tanks remaining.

Ukraine in comparison has lost 550 of the 987 tanks it had at the start of the invasion and has managed to capture 545 Russian tanks, according to Oryx. Western allies have transferred 471 tanks to Kyiv, with an additional 286 expected to arrive soon. In total, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are estimated to have approximately 1,500 tanks.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/07/06/ukraines-tank-numbers-now-equal-russias-analysis-a81759

mapuc

07-07-23, 02:40 PM

Ukraine and Russia's tank numbers are now roughly equal to one another's, Bloomberg reported Thursday, citing the Kiel Institute for the World Economy and the Oryx open-source analysis website. The figures underscore the extent to which Russia's advantage in heavy weapons has been reduced since it sent troops into Ukraine over 16 months ago.

According to the Kiel Institute's Ukraine Support Tracker, Russia has lost over 2,000 of the 3,417 tanks which it used to invade Ukraine in February 2022. Oryx estimates that the Russian army now has about 1,400 tanks remaining.

Ukraine in comparison has lost 550 of the 987 tanks it had at the start of the invasion and has managed to capture 545 Russian tanks, according to Oryx. Western allies have transferred 471 tanks to Kyiv, with an additional 286 expected to arrive soon. In total, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are estimated to have approximately 1,500 tanks.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/07/06/ukraines-tank-numbers-now-equal-russias-analysis-a81759

Doesn't it not have to do with what type of tanks both side has most of.
Saw a video clip some days ago showing a train pulling many wagon with T54 and T55 on them.
This was inside Russia.

Markus

Catfish

07-07-23, 02:43 PM

^ destroy the Kerch bridge, then use long range munitions?
Ukraine has the intelligence, but lacks weapons for long range strikes.

Catfish

07-07-23, 02:51 PM

Some live radio transmission of russian soldiers being killed by their own artillery. Not for the faint hearted.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1677341786983809024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1677341786983809024%7Ctwgr% 5E366f81fcf32fdeab9dd3eadf6a5382ea31d921cc%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwi tter.min.html1677341786983809024

Dargo

07-07-23, 02:52 PM

Doesn't it not have to do with what type of tanks both side has most of.
Saw a video clip some days ago showing a train pulling many wagon with T54 and T55 on them.
This was inside Russia.

MarkusA T55 most certainly can immobilize and destroy any modern tank if it can be maneuvered to the right spot and shoot up the engine or ammo bunker. However, the problem with these type of scenarios is that you are usually committing suicide when you do that, because that guy you just shot up can still shoot back, he has a wing man, and crunchies running around carrying AT weapons... In Iraq 2003 the Iraqis covered 23 mm AA guns with tarps and were driving them among the crowds of evacuating civilians on the rear of small trucks. Once behind an Abrams, they would light him up from the rear. That worked, but the guys doing that paid a huge price and all they would achieve is a mobility kill or seriously damaging the Abrams but not hurting the crew.

There is a difference between a mobility and catastrophic kill. The T55 can easily do a mobility kill on all Western MBTs. As usual, there are also different versions of the T55 and ammo. The T55 was still being built when the wall came down in 1989 and some versions while not the greatest tank in that time could still put up a fight against a western MBT. Likewise, some of the newer and upgraded versions of the M60 are still doing great work for the Israelis, Jordanians, etc. These tanks get upgraded and the newest version of the M60 out there is hardly an old hunk of junk, even though this tank is originally also from the 50s.

I only have seen them stuffed with explosives drive towards the Ukraine army, result was allways in a total kaboom before it reached the ukrainians.

Dargo

07-07-23, 03:45 PM

Today, the Department of Defense (DoD) announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs. This authorization is the Biden Administration's forty-second drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021. This package will provide Ukraine with additional artillery systems and ammunition, including highly effective and reliable dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM), on which the Administration conducted extensive consultations with Congress and our Allies and partners. It also includes additional air defense munitions, armored vehicles, anti-armor weapons, and other equipment to help Ukraine protect its people and counter Russia's ongoing war of aggression.

The capabilities in this package include:

Additional munitions for Patriot air defense systems;
AIM-7 missiles for air defense;
Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
31 155mm Howitzers;
155mm artillery rounds, including DPICM, and 105mm artillery rounds;
32 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles;
32 Stryker Armored Personnel Carriers;
Mine clearing equipment;
Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles;
Javelin and other anti-armor systems and rockets;
Precision aerial munitions;
Penguin Unmanned Aerial Systems;
27 tactical vehicles to recover equipment;
10 tactical vehicles to tow and haul equipment;
Demolitions munitions and systems for obstacle clearing;
Small arms and over 28 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenades;
Spare parts and other field equipment.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3451570/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/

mapuc

07-07-23, 04:22 PM

How many 155mm Howitzers does Ukraine have now ?

Edit
Made a search:
"How many m777 howitzers does Ukraine have?
Ukrainian Ground Forces: 152 systems (108 of which were donated by the United States along with 200,000 155 mm artillery rounds and 18 in the additional package with 36,000 artillery rounds, 4 systems by Canada, and 6 systems by Australia, following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine)."
End edit

Markus

Skybird

07-07-23, 06:21 PM

Skybird

07-08-23, 03:54 AM

German-Polish joint venture in Leopard maintenance? Well, many damaged Leopards are in Poland and do not get reapired since they arrived due to both countries being unable to agree on the Whens, Wheres and Whys.

https://www-dw-com.translate.goog/de/wo-bleibt-die-polnisch-deutsche-panzerwerkstatt/a-66153586?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Jimbuna

07-08-23, 04:13 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3QH8ofpAvQ

Jimbuna

07-08-23, 05:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2YASMYtAbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJYJCX6iw_I

mapuc

07-08-23, 05:22 AM

There are those who is angry that Ukraine gets these Cluster bombs.
I could understand them if they were used against civilian targets, which they ain't going to be.
They will be used at the front.

Edit
Russia have used these type since start of the war against civilians in Ukraine
https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1677351108996472839
End edit

Markus

Bilge_Rat

07-08-23, 06:44 AM

Well the issue with Cluster munitions is more about the hypocrisy of the West. Most NATO members, Germany, France, UK, Canada, Italy, Spain, etc. signed the "Convention on Cluster Munitions" where they undertook:

Countries that ratify the convention will be obliged "never under any circumstances to":[7]

a. Use cluster munitions;
b. Develop, produce, otherwise acquire, stockpile, retain or transfer to anyone, directly or indirectly, cluster munitions;
c. Assist, encourage or induce anyone to engage in any activity prohibited to a State Party under this Convention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions

It is a bit hypocritical to ban a weapon, much like chemical weapons, and then turn around and use them as soon as it is politically convenient.

Now if Ukraine was in desperate straits and was about to be overrun, there might be a case for their use, but that is not the case. The weapons are being supplied to help speed up the "counter-offensive".

Even then, it is not clear how much use DPICM will be, the ammo being supplied, apparently 155mm M864 shells are an area denial weapon, Useful if you want to hit counter-attacking Russian forces, but less useful in an offensive since when UKR forces enter the area where they were used, they risk having multiple vehicle/personnel casualties.

Now the Pentagon is claiming a 2% dud rate on ammo they will supply, but that seems doubtful, production of M864 shells apparently ended 20 years ago, so these shells have probably been in storage 20-30 years, so the real dud rate could be a lot higher.

Skybird

07-08-23, 06:59 AM

The US has not signed the anti clusterbomb treaty. Nor have Russia, China, and half of the globe's states as well. No hypocrisy in the American acting then. (The US has, however, just completed the destruction of its known chemical weapon arsenal).

The issue gained momentum because conventional 155mm artillery rounds cannot be produced fast enough, not in Europe and not in the US, there is a shortage and the Ukraine is running low on these. The cluster ammunition however is available in large quantities. It works well for attacking not mnonly moving forces, but also fixed emplacements.

Militarily there use makes an awesome lot of sense. Like the use of mines as well - Russia currently proves that. Mines make - from a military standpoint - an awesome lot of sense.

It is the ukraine deciding to use these weapons on their own ground, in a fight for mere survival. Russia has clearly said it wants the Ukraine to stop to exist as a state and as an ethnic group and culture, which proves the intention for announced genocide. I can only caution any Westerner or other people to lecture Ukraine on what tools it may use to defend itself. It struggles for survival and for territorial integrity. One can easily end up as some arrogant bastard throwing some pepperspray to a victim of rape and murder and say "Here, this is it, but more you are not getting to try to defend your life! Stay classy!"

The US said it is to deliver a type of round that is modern and has a lower dud rate than rounds produced 20 years ago. There will be duds. But again: it is the victim of this aggression that decides whether and how to use this weapon. And they asked for it since long time. I think their military is competent enough to know why it wants it. And we are certainly not in the position to lecture them on the moral implications. The Ukrainias fight for their mere existence, for their right to be and to exist. If all agriculture and industry in the Ukraine gets destroyed, you can seal their fate even if not killing them to the last man standing and occupying every square inch of their territory.

They asked for this weapon, so give them these. All gloves off, I say. I would even give them back equivalents to the nuclear arsenal they have given up in the early nineties for guarantees that we later betrayed. It would make the Russians think twice and three times before trying some nuclear stunt if they would need to expect Ukrainian retaliation of equal means.