The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[Oberon]

Thread for terrorism discussion - NS

[Oberon]

Firstly, some good news from the sandpit, 'Jihadi John' has very likely been neutralised. Good riddance I say and here's to getting more of the Daesh-bags.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34805924

[Jimbuna]

Good move Jamie and good riddance to the trash that hopefully ceased to exist as of Thursday.

[Onkel Neal]

Really, how many other kinds of terrorism are there these days? PETA ? KKK? Black lives matter? Westboro?

I'm sure Obama would approve of dropping the islamic descriptor.

Agree with you about the good news :)

'Jihadi John' Is Targeted by U.S. Airstrike in ISIS Stronghold
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/jihadi-john-targeted-u-s-airstrike-isis-stronghold-n462631

[Dowly]

I find it a bit distasteful to make such a big deal over "Jihadi-John". He ALLEGEDLY, beheaded westerners (beheadings were never shown on camera, unusual). What about the other hundreds of people killed by Daesh? What makes Jihadi-John so important? Doesn't this just send a message to the ordinary folks living where Daesh have influence, that only western lives matter?

Oh, and no I dont believe the beheadings didn't happen, I just think that the way the videos cut to show just the beheaded head, that it might have been someone else who did the dirty job.

Whatever the case, one terrorist less hopefully.

[Dan D]

Dear Sirs,

is the subsim music thread gone as well?

If so, shall we turn the subsim radio on again by starting a new thread, Jimbuna?:arrgh!:

[Aktungbby]

Dear Sirs,

is the subsim music thread gone as well?

If so, shall we turn the subsim radio on again by starting a new thread, Jimbuna?:arrgh!: not any more!:arrgh!: I just started a new one...I knew U and Eichhörnchen would be particularly upset!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222854 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222854)

[Jimbuna]

Dear Sirs,

is the subsim music thread gone as well?

If so, shall we turn the subsim radio on again by starting a new thread, Jimbuna?:arrgh!:

Awaiting feedback on the matter right now.

[Tchocky]

Wait a damn second, an Islamic terrorism thread was nuked due to something other than The Usual Reason?

Colour me impressed.


What about the other hundreds of people killed by Daesh? What makes Jihadi-John so important? Doesn't this just send a message to the ordinary folks living where Daesh have influence, that only western lives matter?


I see where you're coming form Dowly, but consider the propaganda effect at play here. JJ was a huge part of Daesh public image.

Also I don't think the comparison you're making to the average Daesh militant really works. There have been hundreds of strikes killing militants, we just didn't know their names, ergo, not news.

[Eichhörnchen]

not any more!:arrgh!: I just started a new one...I knew U and Eichhörnchen would be particularly upset!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222854 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222854)

You better get back over there, Aktung... I just did my own business while you weren't looking:D

[Eichhörnchen]

[QUOTE=Dowly;2357948]I find it a bit distasteful to make such a big deal over "Jihadi-John". Doesn't this just send a message to the ordinary folks living where Daesh have influence, that only western lives matter?/QUOTE]

David Cameron did take care to say today that this guy was behind the murder of "many, many moslems" as well. According to the Americans, he was "eviscerated" by the strike... a polite way of saying that the first thing that went through his mind was his arse.

[Aktungbby]

You better get back over there, Aktung... I just did my own business while you weren't looking:D

U couldn't have; the fire hydrants aren't reinstalled yet!:O:

[mapuc]

Right now I'm seeing a documentary on Danish TV it's about the abduction of Hanns Martin Schleyer in the end of 1977 by the German terror group Rote Arme Fraction.

I guess we and especially German had our own struggle with political terror groups

Markus

[Oberon]

Really, how many other kinds of terrorism are there these days? PETA ? KKK? Black lives matter? Westboro?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#Attacks_by_type

I find it a bit distasteful to make such a big deal over "Jihadi-John". He ALLEGEDLY, beheaded westerners (beheadings were never shown on camera, unusual). What about the other hundreds of people killed by Daesh? What makes Jihadi-John so important? Doesn't this just send a message to the ordinary folks living where Daesh have influence, that only western lives matter?

Oh, and no I dont believe the beheadings didn't happen, I just think that the way the videos cut to show just the beheaded head, that it might have been someone else who did the dirty job.

Whatever the case, one terrorist less hopefully.

Eh, it's a bit like Lord Haw-haw or to give him his proper name William Joyce, he was a propaganda tool, the face of Daesh to the west, so getting him is more of a message to those in the west who have sympathies towards Daesh. To those who are under Daesh influenced territory, it's debatable whether they will receive this news or it'll have a Daesh spin on it, probably focusing on the other passenger in the car with him, maybe making that person a young mother with a baby or something in the traditional 'Baby milk factory style'.
But yes, it is primarily aimed at the west.

Wait a damn second, an Islamic terrorism thread was nuked due to something other than The Usual Reason?

Colour me impressed.

The day is still young, my friend. :03:

[Oberon]

Right now I'm seeing a documentary on Danish TV it's about the abduction of Hanns Martin Schleyer in the end of 1977 by the German terror group Rote Arme Fraction.

I guess we and especially German had our own struggle with political terror groups

Markus

There have been more British civilians killed by the IRA and other Irish paramilitary organisations than who have been killed by Islamic extremists.
Both terrorist groups were and are funded by our allies too...makes you think. :O:

[Rockstar]

There have been more British civilians killed by the IRA and other Irish paramilitary organisations than who have been killed by Islamic extremists.
Both terrorist groups were and are funded by our allies too...makes you think. :O:

Well if they were funded by the good guys then they must have been the considerably friendlier 'moderate' terrorist groups who go around killing people. Big difference you know between them and those 'radical' terrorist groups who go around killing people.

[Oberon]

Well if they were funded by the good guys then they must have been the considerably friendlier 'moderate' terrorist groups who go around killing people. Big difference you know between them and those 'radical' terrorist groups who go around killing people.

Quite. :haha: :up:

[eddie]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of threat a 9 year old girl would pose to extremists to deserve being beheaded!?!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-beheading-of-a-9-year-old-girl-prompted-huge-protests-in-afghanistan/ar-BBmVSL0

I hope the animals who did this are vaporized like JJ in Iraq!

[Oberon]

Reports coming in of automatic gunfire and 'an explosion' in central Paris.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

[Tchocky]

Oh Christ.

[Oberon]

Oh Christ.

Indeed, hopefully police presence will be quick and decisive. It was most likely timed to coincide with the France vs Germany match so they know restaurants and bars would be busy, this kind of thing is a classic terrorist target. There would have been a heavy police presence about though so hopefully they'll be able to step in quickly.
Unfortunately there will have been casualties, and likely fatalities. :nope:

[Oberon]

The explosions are reported to have been grenades and at least two shootings have been reported. The grenades were detonated near the Stade de France where the France vs Germany match is taking place, as such no-one is now allowed to enter or leave the stadium. Hollande has been evacuated from the stadium. Reports of the French army being deployed.

EDIT: Gentleman talking to the BBC indicates that people told him that the attack at the restaurant was a drive-by.

Reports of a possible hostage situation at 'Le Bataclan' concert hall.

[STEED]

There have been more British civilians killed by the IRA and other Irish paramilitary organisations

I'm read some books on political Irish history and it is a complicated minefield. Just got hold of a rare book by Calton Younger

A State Of Disunion. Four Studies. Griffiths, Collins. Craig, De Valera.

[Schroeder]

German media speaks of at least 18 fatalities, several shootings, explosions and a hostage situation in the Paris concert hall.:nope:

[Oberon]

I'm read some books on political Irish history and it is a complicated minefield. Just got hold of a rare book by Calton Younger

A State Of Disunion. Four Studies. Griffiths, Collins. Craig, De Valera.

Complicated is a definite understatement. I recall doing GCSE studies on the 'Troubles' back as the Good Friday Accords were being worked out.


German media speaks of at least 18 fatalities, several shootings, explosions and a hostage situation in the Paris concert hall.:nope:

Around a hundred hostages reported. Reports of 35-40 fatalities in the attacks so far. The France vs Germany game has ended but the stadium is still closed so most of the fans are wandering around on the pitch trying to figure out what has happened.

EDIT: The Californian band 'Eagles of Death Metal' were playing at the concert venue and were an hour into their gig when the hostage situation began.

[STEED]

Way to early to point the finger at anyone until more information comes out, never the less another terrible event.

[mapuc]

It's bad that the old thread is gone, ´cause in one of my post I wrote about ISIS and coordinated operations. I recall some replied my post and said that they couldn't do that.

Hearing on Danish News channel right now

This is a coordinated terror attack in a scale never seen before

I guess its time to see ISIS not as some toy terror group but a terror group with a skill almost equal a normal country

(I'm so sure its ISIS or some of its supporting groups who's behind this)

Markus

[Rockstar]

Way to early to point the finger at anyone until more information comes out, never the less another terrible event.


I dont think you need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that it was not a bunch of 'all purpose' terrorists which have attacked France. In fact I'll go right ahead and say that it is Islamic terrorists.

[Oberon]

There is a report that one of the hostage takers said something about Syria, so draw your own conclusions from that, obviously though it's too early to be certain and no-one has claimed responsibility, but it's probably a local cell so Daesh central in Syria would have no idea about any such planned attack.

Meanwhile there have been more reports of shootings, this time at the Louvre and somewhere else. It's also indicated that the hostage takers have explosives. A Europe 1 journalist in the concert hall said:

"Several armed men came into the concert. Two or three men, not wearing masks, came in with what looked like Kalashnikovs and fired blindly on the crowd.
"It lasted between 10 and 15 minutes. It was extremely violent and there was panic. The attackers had enough time to reload at least three times. They were very young."
I would ask American members of this forum to refrain at this point from derailing this topic into discussions of the Second Amendment.

President Hollande has just declared a State of Emergency across France and closed the French borders, French residents are being urged to stay indoors and people are being cleared off the streets by police and soldiers.

'all purpose' terrorists

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/66429/tommy_lee_jones_66429.jpg

[mapuc]

^ I guess you're right Oberon its to early to point finger.

Its just the way the terror attack have been done I got the "feeling" its ISIS who's behind this.

In all I think we should wait for more information as they come.

Edit. Is it only Paris who is the target or can we expect more like that in the nearest future in other European Capitals ?

Markus

[Oberon]

^ I guess you're right Oberon its to early to point finger.

Its just the way the terror attack have been done I got the "feeling" its ISIS who's behind this.

In all I think we should wait for more information as they come.

Markus

It'll be done in the name of Daesh, but it'll be a local cell that will be responsible. It's not like a regular army when the top General picks a target and his subordinates draw up an operation to attack it then distribute that to the forces below them to carry out. The mission of Daesh is to attack anything western at any opportunity, so local cells will take it upon themselves to conduct this mission in any way they are able to. Once upon a time it would have been car bombs and suicide bombers, but that seems to have gone down in favour of run and gun attacks with explosives not much bigger than grenades. I imagine that this is because such things are easier to obtain than the ingredients for larger explosives which are heavily monitored by police forces. I think the first major gun assaults were back in Mumbai in 2008 and that killed 166 and injured 600.
To be honest I'm surprised nothing like this has happened in London or Berlin yet, I suspect that sadly it's only a matter of time. :nope:

[Nippelspanner]

~60 killed by now... they start to execute the hostages.
I don't even know what to say, I am raging inside and there is nothing anyone can do about this. We are all doomed to watch this going down and that is exactly what these zealots want.

[Oberon]

~60 killed by now... they start to execute the hostages.
I don't even know what to say, I am raging inside and there is nothing anyone can do about this. We are all doomed to watch this going down and that is exactly what these zealots want.

We're killing them back, we might not get the numbers daily in the news, but we're killing as many of them as they are of us, if not more. It's just more of a shock when they hit us back because we're not used to it.
Make no mistake though, this will encourage European nations to ramp up the attacks on Syria, Russia be damned.

[eddie]

My heart goes out to the people of France, such a sad thing to see. We in the west stand with you at a time like this.

[mapuc]

^ "It'll be done in the name of Daesh, but it'll be a local cell that will be responsible"

This is nothing but pure speculation

What if this terror cell got its order form the headquarters in northern Syria, what if these terrorist was some of these refugees who came to France some year ago and they got the orders before they left ?

I know its many what if.

Markus

[Oberon]

True, it is speculation and I'll refrain from undertaking more.

Reports have indicated that there has been at least one suicide bombing undertaken in the attacks, which surprises me. There must be quite a number of attackers involved in this, it's certainly not on the level of Hebdo, it's much much bigger.

EDIT: The concert hall has been stormed by French forces.

[Schroeder]

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/66429/tommy_lee_jones_66429.jpg
Come on, you know he is right in this.:/\\!!

[Rockstar]

looks like those no-go zones that dont exist are expanding into the tourist district.

[Oberon]

Come on, you know he is right in this.:/\\!!

What, that this thread should only be about Islamic terrorist attacks, because Muslims are the only terrorists in the entire world?

Sure.

[mapuc]

How many terror attacks or trying to conduct a terror attack in percent have been done by Muslim and how many terror attacks a.s.o have been done by other political or religious groups in percent ?

Markus

[Oberon]

How many terror attacks or trying to conduct a terror attack in percent have been done by Muslim and how many terror attacks a.s.o have been done by other political or religious groups in percent ?

Markus

Since when?


Anyway, if the title of this thread offends so many people then Neal can rename it to whatever he wants.


EDIT: Here's an infographic which might go some of the way to answering the question.

http://awesome.good.is/transparency/web/1005/terror-in-america/transparency.jpg

[Schroeder]

What, that this thread should only be about Islamic terrorist attacks, because Muslims are the only terrorists in the entire world?

Sure.
No, that was not what he said. He commented on this very specific attack and one doesn't have to be a genius to figure out what religion the attackers had.

Or maybe I'm missing something. It's 1 a.m. over here and I'm royally enraged so maybe I'm missing the point.

[mapuc]

Since when?


Anyway, if the title of this thread offends so many people then Neal can rename it to whatever he wants.

Again you are right.
Remember my earlier post about Rote Arme Fraction if we go back to the 70s and 80s many German and British will remember IRA, RAF and other political terror group, but in these years most of the terror attacks or trying to conduct terror have been done by Muslim terror groups.

There are many other radical groups in the world no doubt about that, but again so far its mostly if not only Muslim terror group who have conducted terror around the world and not only local against other Muslim or other.

But as mentioned before I'm not any expert, I try to get a wide spread information as much as possible.

The title of this thread is Ok and should not be changed

Markus

[Rockstar]

How many terror attacks or trying to conduct a terror attack in percent have been done by Muslim and how many terror attacks a.s.o have been done by other political or religious groups in percent ?

Markus

Hi Markus, try searching this University of Maryland website http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/ their data base encompasses 1970 thru 2014. From its main page, just press the 'advanced search' select from 1970 to 2014. The list is long, well over 7,000 pages of incidents documented.

[Onkel Neal]

It's bad that the old thread is gone, ´cause in one of my post I wrote about ISIS and coordinated operations. I recall some replied my post and said that they couldn't do that.

Hearing on Danish News channel right now

This is a coordinated terror attack in a scale never seen before

I guess its time to see ISIS not as some toy terror group but a terror group with a skill almost equal a normal country

(I'm so sure its ISIS or some of its supporting groups who's behind this)

Markus


I'm sure all purpose terrorists are behind this.

The original thread was started by me and the subject was islamic terrorism. You can start a thread if you wish but you don't have the right to call it a replacement.:nope:

[Oberon]

Fine, Neal please lock this thread and start a new one then.

[mapuc]

Hi Markus, try searching this University of Maryland website http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/ their data base encompasses 1970 thru 2014. From its main page, just press the 'advanced search' select from 1970 to 2014. The list is long, well over 7,000 pages of incidents documented.

Thank you. Have saved the page for future look.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

I'm not locking any threads when the discussion is with in bounds. I'm simply expressing my opinion. I think the terror threat we have the most concern over is islamic extremists, and I don't agree there should be do much effort expended to look away.

[Oberon]

Well then please rename it then, or stop with the 'All purpose terrorists' jibes. I'm not looking away, nor encouraging people to look away, but if that's what people want to take from it then nothing that I'm going to say is going to persuade you or Rockstar otherwise. I'm just the PC police after all. :nope:

EDIT: Commander Wallace has made a seperate thread about the Paris attacks, so you can delete this one.

[Rockstar]

Again you are right.
Remember my earlier post about Rote Arme Fraction if we go back to the 70s and 80s many German and British will remember IRA, RAF and other political terror group, but in these years most of the terror attacks or trying to conduct terror have been done by Muslim terror groups.

There are many other radical groups in the world no doubt about that, but again so far its mostly if not only Muslim terror group who have conducted terror around the world and not only local against other Muslim or other.

But as mentioned before I'm not any expert, I try to get a wide spread information as much as possible.

The title of this thread is Ok and should not be changed

Markus


Yes there are many terrorist groups in history, but nobody is talking about them right now. As I suspect they are not as prevelant or even active. They are for the most part a thing of the past.

What I percieve as sugar coating a very serious and most current topic isnt the way I would do it. Even so, the title is fine with me too as it is the content of the thread which will reveal what is first and foremost on the minds of people.

[Rockstar]

Well then please rename it then, or stop with the 'All purpose terrorists' jibes. I'm not looking away, nor encouraging people to look away, but if that's what people want to take from it then nothing that I'm going to say is going to persuade you or Rockstar otherwise. I'm just the PC police after all. :nope:

EDIT: Commander Wallace has made a seperate thread about the Paris attacks, so you can delete this one.


Dont get yer panties in wad, I was just havin fun with 'all purpose'. :timeout:

[Oberon]

Dont get yer panties in wad, I was just havin fun with 'all purpose'. :timeout:

Ah, fair enough...it's hard to tell on the web when someone is attacking versus when someone is having a light hearted jab. I guess 'All purpose' was a bit of a stretch, although it does make them sound like the toxic lawn fertiliser that they are... :03:

[Rockstar]

Ah, fair enough...it's hard to tell on the web when someone is attacking versus when someone is having a light hearted jab. I guess 'All purpose' was a bit of a stretch, although it does make them sound like the toxic lawn fertiliser that they are... :03:

it was a jibe but meant in jest, sorry:salute:

[mapuc]

I'm very sorry it was not my intention to, as Neal wrote,

" you don't have the right to call it a replacement"

Markus

[Oberon]

it was a jibe but meant in jest, sorry:salute:

Likewise, sorry for the misinterpretation, I guess when I'm so entrenched in defending my position I get a little jumpy. :03: :salute:

[Rockstar]

It will be interesting to see the reactions of the native born over the current immigration policies and watching Merkle and other leaders squirm.

[Oberon]

It will be interesting to see the reactions of the native born over the current immigration policies and watching Merkle squirm.

It's certainly going to bring it to the forefront again once the dust has settled. Already there are reports of a fire at the Calais refugee camp and the Dutch are putting police out to defend refugee camps against reprisals.

People have hatred in their hearts and they're going to vent it on the first Muslim looking thing they see.

[August]

I don't much care either way but FWIW I don't see a problem with talking exclusively about Islamic terrorist attacks right now. They are after all the type that's occurring at the moment. If another group were to conduct a terrorist attack then i'm sure there would be a string of posts concerning their activities and depending on their frequency and severity they would probably crowd out the Islamic posts.

[Buddahaid]

I don't much care either way but FWIW I don't see a problem with talking exclusively about Islamic terrorist attacks right now. They are after all the type that's occurring at the moment. If another group were to conduct a terrorist attack then i'm sure there would be a string of posts concerning their activities and depending on their frequency and severity they would probably crowd out the Islamic posts.

All for naming it The Not So All Purpose Terrorism Thread say aye.

:arrgh!:
http://www.rahafharfoush.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/pitchfork-torch-mob.jpg

[Nippelspanner]

I don't much care either way but FWIW I don't see a problem with talking exclusively about Islamic terrorist attacks right now. They are after all the type that's occurring at the moment. If another group were to conduct a terrorist attack then i'm sure there would be a string of posts concerning their activities and depending on their frequency and severity they would probably crowd out the Islamic posts.
That's what I thought.
Refraining from calling it "Islamic terrorism" thread smells too much like political correctness to me.
Things are what they are and so far I don't hear an awful lot about Buddhist terrorists blowing people to bits or cutting heads off...

We could also just name this thread "The religion of peace strikes again!" but I guess this is a can of worms and would rustle the jimmies of those who are too concerned that the poor Islam is just being 'abused' again... or 'misinterpreted'... like it always the case...

Meh. :shifty:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

That's what I thought.
Refraining from calling it "Islamic terrorism" thread smells too much like political correctness to me.
Things are what they are and so far I don't hear an awful lot about Buddhist terrorists blowing people to bits or cutting heads off...

We could also just name this thread "The religion of peace strikes again!" but I guess this is a can of worms and would rustle the jimmies of those who are too concerned that the poor Islam is just being 'abused' again... or 'misinterpreted'... like it always the case...

Meh. :shifty:

I completely agree, old friend.

[GT182]

They have no idea what peace is, and could care less about peace. They're only doing what they're told to do.... to take over the world in the name of Islam.

I say it's time to clean house.

[Nippelspanner]

I completely agree, old friend.
Nice to see you checking in every once in a while Todd! :salute:

[CCIP]

I for one see this more of a closet xenophobe coming-out thread. At least it's good to see some honesty and expand the ignore list :D

[Onkel Neal]

Ahoy Todd!:up:

[Betonov]

I don't think it's trying to be politically correct.
It's a great bandwith saver if any non-islamic terror attacks occur.

[Oberon]

I did ask Neal to close this thread and start a new one up with a more Islamic focused base but he refused, and since topic starters can't rename their own threads you're all stuck with it I'm afraid.

I guess it might be worth noting that I started this thread yesterday morning, before all the **** went down in Paris but I don't think anyone will really care about that, if there's a chance to call me and the topic title PC then I guess that's all that matters. :yeah:

[Skybird]

"The all purpose terrorism thread."

A newer, deeper low has been found.

No matter your timing, Oberon, your intention was the same: to ridicule those pointing out that Islamic scripture and Muhammad's deeds are what motivates Islamic terror attacks, and to minimise the role of Islam in the scope of global terrorism. Underhanded cynism at its best.

[Tchocky]

"The all purpose terrorism thread."

A newer, deeper low has been found.


Right, Skybird.

The worst thing ever has finally happened and it's a THREAD TITLE.

Log off. Sign out.

Place was nicer without you.

No matter your timing, Oberon, your intention was the same: to ridicule those pointing out that Islamic scripture and Muhammad's deeds are what motivates Islamic terror attacks, and to minimise the role of Islam in the scope of global terrorism. Underhanded cynism at its best.

You just can't help inventing motives, can you?

Just keep it shut.

[Jimbuna]

Cool heads everyone if you'd all be so kind.

[Tchocky]

Well jimbuna I'd like to but it's a long standing habit of Skybird's to use tragic events to poke people he doesn't like and invent motivations for others on this forum.


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=217695


I've no intention of dropping myself in the brig again but I've even less inclination towards letting despicable posts just float by.

[Jimbuna]

I've made the only appeal I'll be making on the matter. Leave the moderation to Neal and I because should anything necessitate remedial action, it will most probably be one of us who will carry it out.

All threads (including this one) are monitored to the best of our ability and remain subject to Subsim.com's editorial policies.

[Tchocky]

:salute: :salute:

[STEED]

I've made the only appeal I'll be making on the matter. Leave the moderation to Neal and I

That's why jim gets the big money. :shifty: :)

[Rockstar]

Not to sound sarcastic, or insensitive. But are French security forces and intel gurus overwhelmed? Or are these so called no-go areas so isolated from the rest of French society. There is no way to penetrate and develop any good intel on the players and potential threats of massive coordinated attacks with automatic weapons and hand grenades?

Is it a possible reason why it hasnt this happenend in other European countries or the U.S.? Or is it just a matter of time before it does?

[Jimbuna]

Is it a possible reason why it hasnt this happenend in other European countries or the U.S.? Or is it just a matter of time before it does?

I suspect just a matter of time.

[Tchocky]

Not to sound sarcastic, or insensitive. But are French security forces and intel gurus overwhelmed?

There's absolutely no way we can know that. We don't know all of what was stopped.

Obviously there were plotters arrested in Verviers recently with weapons and explosives. That could have been an event like yesterday - we don't know.

Or are these so called no-go areas so isolated from the rest of French society. There is no way to penetrate and develop any good intel on the players and potential threats of massive coordinated attacks with automatic weapons and hand grenades?

The "no-go" myth running around again. France has deep problems with assimilation and alienation, but the old story of hundreds of places where police fear to tread just isn't true.

Certainly it can't be easy for the French security services.

Is it a possible reason why it hasnt this happenend in other European countries or the U.S.? Or is it just a matter of time before it does?

It has happened. In London, in Madrid, in Turkey just a month ago.

How quickly we forget.

[Betonov]

Not overwhelmed, it's that the terror tactics have changed from large bombs going off and it's easy to get the authorities alerted to it when one buys a barrel of ammonium nitrate and owns no fields, now they're focusing on mass shootings and grenades, which can be aquired slowly, maybe one piece at a time or smugled component by component into the country.

And as Tchocky said, for this one attack maybe 10 were stopped, maybe this attack was planned for a later time in bigger extent but the intel was too close to busting them.

[Buddahaid]

Ugh. I just woke up to the nice news out of Paris. Be strong France.

[Betonov]

Someone on imgur hits the nail

http://i.imgur.com/a0cCUoU.jpg

I don't think the people conducting these attacks quite understand: on an individual level, for those directly caught up in the event, terrorism is as harrowing and tragic an experience as any other act of aggression, but collectively, no one here gives a damn. Why? Because Europe was the birthplace of INDUSTRIAL WARFARE! Random killings don’t achieve anything. Small minded fools with delusions of grandeur who think killing a few civilians and then dying themselves will somehow benefit their cause are just seen as an irritation. Take the 2005 bombings in London, for example. More people were pissed off because the Tube was shut down rather than because an act of terror had just happened in the capital. Picking up a gun and shooting lots of unarmed people before you yourself are taken down doesn't make you special. Anyone can do it and at the end of it, you’re dead, so the problem has essentially solved itself. The infrastructure you’re blaming for all the evils in the world is still fully functional because it’s never military or industrial targets that are attacked. It’s not “warfare”, it’s just random violence, and that’s easy for a nation to shrug off.

[Oberon]

I suspect just a matter of time.

Sadly, yes. I've been waiting for another attack in London, Birmingham or Manchester for a while. One can only presume it's slightly harder to get the weaponry across the Channel or something. But yes, this is a war after all, sadly, and we are going to suffer casualties.

Someone on imgur hits the nail



Ah, Jollyjack, he's done some brilliant topical comics, a couple on North Korea that are perfect. :up:

[Rockstar]

Sooo, we what is being said then its part of the new norm, we shouldnt get too worked about it. Well I mean as long as I can get too work other than that we shouldnt be concerned?

And as far as the myth of no go zones. The myth is nobody not even police venture in. Reality is its not exactley a tourist destination. And the police when they do go they go heavily armed, and take other special precautions not normally associated with routine patrols. At least according to French governemnt sources and european news agencies.

Look this is becoming an increasing problem. When my dog gets fleas I dont let them itch, if I do they spread multiply and eventually get on me. No, when it comes to fleas I exterminate them at the first sign.

[Oberon]

In a way, yes, it is the new norm, it has been the new norm since September 2001. We should expect terror attacks, but no-one is going to be able to take away the shock when they happen. Yes, we can work to prevent them and we have done, there are countless terror attacks that have been averted, potential terrorists that have been arrested, but no force is perfect and some are going to slip through.
Should we just shrug and say 'fair enough', well...no, of course not, and we need to make sure that if there is a way that does not undermine the values of the nation that we hold dear, if there is a way to stop something like this from happening then we should take it.

So yes, if your dog gets fleas, you de-flea it...but unless you eradicate every single flea in the world in a mass flea-genocide, you're not going to completely prevent the dog from the chance of getting fleas again.

[mapuc]

I'm so to say confused in many way

I shall try as good as I can to explain one of my confessions

For the moment I have only Danish TV-channels one Swedish TV-channel and depending on the weather(antenna-air) 10-20 different German TV-channel

I try to get as much information about ISIS/The terror in Paris and other places

I hear Danish,Swedish and or German terror expert make statement in some news program I try to remember what they have said

Here is a the lastest from the former leader of the Danish PET(equal FBI)
"Its not that easy to "hear" what ISIS are saying to each other, they are using advanced military coding system"

This was his answer to a question from the journalist.

Markus

[Tchocky]

Sooo, we what is being said then its part of the new norm, we shouldnt get too worked about it. Well I mean as long as I can get too work other than that we shouldnt be concerned?

Not what I was getting at, no. I mean, yes, large scale terrorist attacks are more common in Europe now, but low-level long-term insurgencies are almost gone.
We have 7/7 and 13/11, instead of The Troubles and Red Brigades. DOn't ask me if this is an improvement, I've no idea.

Look this is becoming an increasing problem. When my dog gets fleas I dont let them itch, if I do they spread multiply and eventually get on me. No, when it comes to fleas I exterminate them at the first sign.As a metaphor this is almost peerless. As security or public policy it's lunacy. Like it or not we have a framework of human rights and process. If we decide to chuck it out the window, I guess that's possible (if undesirable in my view)

But if it's going to go, dismantle it rather than destroy it through negligence and disrespect.

Here is a the lastest from the former leader of the Danish PET(equal FBI)
"Its not that easy to "hear" what ISIS are saying to each other, they are using advanced military coding system"

Yeah that's tricky. You can't snoop a coffe shop conversation and you can't break all encryption in real time. I'm fairly certain that metadata collection and the like really serves to help investigations after the act. Pick up the pieces, as it were.

We're no closer to cracking the IS nut today than yesterday - we're just a little deeper in innocent blood.

[mapuc]

Another thing that makes me sad

Reading some peoples response

"Islam has declared war on us, we can not trust a Muslim"

Islamic radicalism has declared war on us, that's true. but they are not every Muslim or every Muslim is not radical in their belief and that's a mega huge different.

Markus

[Tchocky]

:agree:


Worrying rhetoric bubbling up around the place, though.

[Onkel Neal]

Another thing that makes me sad

Reading some peoples response

"Islam has declared war on us, we can not trust a Muslim"

Islamic radicalism has declared war on us, that's true. but they are not every Muslim or every Muslim is not radical in their belief and that's a mega huge different.

Markus

That's very true.

[Skybird]

My concern is that this has been just the opening act.

Amongst IS' legionaires, a huge number has French passports - passports which will help them to return to France legally. The French contingent amongst IS' foreign fighters, is one of the biggest foreign groups in IS' service.

One of those attackers who got killed was a known "radical", already known to the police since 2010. And still he could freely move around and get himself into striking position.

I fear France must take into account that there could be several hundred, maybe even over a thousand, sleepers ready to strike within its national borders currently. Impossible to completely neutralize that threat.

Of the killed attackers today, one has owned an Egyptian passport, and at least one Syrian, maybe even two Syrian passport shave been found by the authorities. One of these Syrian passports is linked to a Syrian "refugee" who had entered Greece via Turkey sometime in October. The German BKA has warned already weeks ago that several tens of thousands of forged Syrian passports were circulating at the time of this BKA announcement. In past weeks, several countries let Syrian and other migrants and refugees travel without registration and checking their papers at all, due to the huge pressure at the borders. The head of the German coalition party SPD several days ago admitted that tens of thousands of refugees just disappear after they crossed the German border, and are moving around in Germany untracked, unknown off and completely unregistered.

In other words: nobody has any clue on how many of those masses of foreign people who were let in, were not what they pretended to be. Dozens? Take that as a certainty. Hundreds? Could be possible. Nobody can say for sure.

This is a perfect security nightmare.

If the story about that Syrian passport gets further confirmed, it means that those 130 people got killed and those hundreds got wounded in exchange for letting happen uncontrolled border crossing and unregulated mass migration. Nice trade. Headless sentimentality and wishful dreaming has quite a bit to do with it.

Today's threat by IS that this has been just the first of several strikes, absolutely is no empty threat, but must be taken into account as a substantial threat for sure. What they would need for maintaining that threat, is a sufficient supply of suicide attackers, no matter whether national residents ( many of the attackers seem to have spoken accent-free French, also the attackers in London and Madrid held British and Spanish passports), or IS-returners or false "refugees" streaming into Europe.

Did I already say that this is a security nightmare? But one that one could have easily foreseen - if only one would have wanted that. But since many years one stuck the head into the sand, and in recent weeks and months insanity turned from bad to worse. Madness, when turning pandemic, is called "reason".

[Oberon]

Aye, sadly that is likely. I think it was inevitable that there would be radicals hidden in the refugee crowds. But do you turn away millions for a low percentage of troublemakers? :hmmm:

[mapuc]

I have a question for you to think about

Why Paris, France ?

Why not Berlin, Madrid or London ?

[Tchocky]

Tying this to the recent refugee crisis is to miss what's been going on for years - inter-European bickering about information sharing and data collection.

A major Islamist terror attack in Europe is almost inevitable as European members of Islamic State (http://www.theguardian.com/world/isis) (Isis) return from Syria and Iraq, according to senior EU officials familiar with the diplomatic, intelligence, and security planning taking place to try to counter the threat.That's from over a year ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/25/major-terrorist-attack-inevitable-isis-eu

The EU has been trying to come up with a counter-terrorism strategy for the past 18 months. The current emergency is jolting the process, but officials are intensely pessimistic that the results will be too little, too late.
Various schemes are under discussion, most notably an EU-wide Passenger Names Record (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/20/air-passenger-data-plans-illegal) (PNR) for all air travel within the EU supplying up to 15 parameters that are mixed in a computer algorithm to help identify suspects.
The scheme is opposed in the European parliament on civil liberties grounds as it would monitor millions of ordinary travellers. The Germans, sticklers for data protection, are also lukewarm on the idea but are keener on reintroducing tighter border controls within the passport-free Schengen zone.That brings the concern and effort back to March 2013.


If the story about that Syrian passport gets further confirmed, it means that those 130 people got killed and those hundreds got wounded in exchange for letting happen uncontrolled border crossing and unregulated mass migration. Nice trade. Headless sentimentality and wishful dreaming has quite a bit to do with it.


So no, not really. Certainly imposing heavy border checks and severely curtailing freedom of movement might have caught this in progress, but to frame it as you have as an even trade, one for the other, is false.


IS would have had no trouble getting fighters in place if there was no refugee crisis.

[Betonov]

Sooo, we what is being said then its part of the new norm, we shouldnt get too worked about it. Well I mean as long as I can get too work other than that we shouldnt be concerned?



We shouldn't treat it as the end of the world.
The dog won't die becasue of a few fleas, France won't die becasue of a terrorist attack.
If your dog has fleas you take measures to kill the fleas and make some measures it won't catch them again. And that means not going after the entire Endopterygota* superorder just because one order is of a parasite variety.

And since terrorists want us to be affraid, concerning ourselves over it, cancelling travel, hidding in our houses, looking over our shoulder and giving governments powers over our personal life means THEY won and I'll personally send every one that became affraid a white flag so falsely given to the French by the internet in the last years and wave it with pride.


*Endopterygota superorder includes fleas, beetles, wasps, bees, ants and butterflies

[Oberon]

Huh, so fleas are in the same superorder as Butterflies...you learn something new every day.

Apparently an old co-worker and school friend was in Paris at the time, fortunately she is safe and is coming back soon. Police and army are everywhere apparently.

[Skybird]

France is amongst the front runners with having problems with its very huge Muslim population that grows rapidly. It also is part of the anti IS coalition, and has installed some legislation that are not in favour of Islamic demands. And as I said: a huge sub-group of IS' legionaires, are French. In a way one can say that France gets caught by the backleash of its own migration policies of the past half of a century. The integration of that huge Muslim influx, has failed on epic proportions. I knbow nio country in europe, where the integration of bigger Muslim communities was a success story.

Contemporary world events just were a spark that worked as the trigger.

Also, propaganda efforts by IS find many open ears in France, due to that high numbers of Muslims living there.

Many people will also say that those poor Muslim communities are disadvantaged and socially discriminated. Well, that formed up over decades, and to good parts even is true. The question however just is: why do they get discriminated and why do many people no longer want to have much to do with them anymore? Could their lacking integration that they refused to realise, have anything to do with it? Or does that hurt precious socialist feelings or violate political correctness that always claims the fault is ours, not theirs, and that we must just try harder to like them? Or is it maybe an even deeper fundamental incompatability between the value system as formalised in the French constitutional order and Western civilization, and Islamic morals and demands? ;)

It should really catch your attention that where ever in Europe there are bigger Muslim communities, there are troubles, and these troubles grow practically everywhere. They just do not integrate. Other foreigners coming to Europe to fit in, over time melt in, adapt, integrate. Islam does not. Never did. Muslims allowing to get assimilated, are a minority, Muslims building successful, even exemplary careers, are even more an exception from the rule.

Maybe because the claimed word of Allah is put above earthly man-made values and rules, and due to its divine nature its rulership is not to be negotiated?

I hear the hypocrites yelling already, "Islam has nothing to do with what happened yesterday". It has all and everything to do with it. The shout Allahu Akbar! was to be heard on all places of the slaughtering.

"Moderate" Muslims may think that they do not belong to those barbars. But those barbars belong to these "moderate" Muslims nevertheless, they base on the same book, the same historical figure and story, they speak in that scriptures' name and correctly refer to it. They match the examples set up by Muhammad himself during his life much closer. When Muhammad could exterminate a whole Jewish tribe and execute all 900 male members, old and young, on the market place in Medina, while leading all women into working and sexual slavery: just because he felt offended by the educational intellectual superiority of the Jewish pharisees - why should he have a problem with his disciples slaughtering 130 infidels belonging to a culture that stands in Islam's way, hindering it to fulfill Muhammad's wanted heritage of world rulership?

I remind also of the fact that many of the attackers from London were no social losers or disadvantaged, discriminated victims of social injustice, but came from the social middle clas, had good jobs, homes, families. That should make people think.

[Betonov]

Huh, so fleas are in the same superorder as Butterflies...you learn something new every day.



it's the superorder where animals start life as larvae

it means that buttelies are the same superorder as zerglings and hydralisks

[Betonov]

I hear the hypocrites yelling already, "Islam has nothing to do with what happened yesterday". It has all and everything to do with it. The shout Allahu Akbar! was to be heard on all places of the slaughtering.



I can kill people and yell ''für den Kaiser Franz Joseph'', will that mean it is an Austro-Hungarian issue ??

[Oberon]

it's the superorder where animals start life as larvae

it means that buttelies are the same superorder as zerglings and hydralisks

Kekekekeke

I can kill people and yell ''für den Kaiser Franz Joseph'', will that mean it is an Austro-Hungarian issue ??

Depends if you kill an Ostrich, I guess... :hmmm:

[Tchocky]

In a way one can say that France gets caught by the backleash of its own migration policies of the past half of a century. The integration of that huge Muslim influx, has failed on epic proportions. I knbow nio country in europe, where the integration of bigger Muslim communities was a success story.

Oh for God's sake, two posts ago it was the result of recent EU border policymaking, now it's 50 years of French whatever.

Make up your mind.

I hear the hypocrites yelling already, "Islam has nothing to do with what happened yesterday". It has all and everything to do with it. The shout Allahu Akbar! was to be heard on all places of the slaughtering. Well that's all the proof I need. I mean come on people, SHOUTING.

A psychopathic murderer who was taking innocent life before blowing himself up - why do you take that to be a reasonable source of motive?

Why is that proof to you?

Frankly I consider a murderous rampage to be a sign of a flawed mind, easily seduced by opportunistic sadists.

Apparently you think this is the sign of a well-adjusted honest thinker. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Wouldn't want to misrepresent your position.

"Moderate" Muslims may think that they do not belong to those barbars. But those barbars belong to these "moderate" Muslims nevertheless, they base on the same book, the same historical figure and story, they speak in that scriptures' name and correctly refer to it.It's very nice of you to tell people who they are. You should get a newsletter as it appears the overwhelming majority of peaceful, non-insane Muslims don't have the right to refer to themselves as such. They're apostates, right?

They match the examples set up by Muhammad himself during his life much closer.As always we get back to this - you can't have it both ways.

There can't be huge unintegrated Muslim populations in France if by your definition none of them are proper Muslims.


Fin

So Betonov, what's Lepidoptera then? I vaguely remember the term and don't wanna Google :D

[Betonov]

So Betonov, what's Lepidoptera then? I vaguely remember the term and don't wanna Google :D

Butterlies and Lipidoptera is the order, part of the superorder Endopterygota, class Insecta, Phylum Arthrpoda, kingdom Animalia

[Rockstar]

As a metaphor this is almost peerless. As security or public policy it's lunacy. Like it or not we have a framework of human rights and process. If we decide to chuck it out the window, I guess that's possible (if undesirable in my view)

But if it's going to go, dismantle it rather than destroy it through negligence and disrespect.

lol, sorry, and appreciate your reply. But that was directed at the rockscientists who I believe made an attempt to liken terrorists to fleas. Just pointing out that unless its against your religion thats what you do to fleas. I think its a stupid analogy.

[Betonov]

They're called geologists and I'm more inclined for botany than geology.

And what part of the analogy you deem not correct, appart from the fact that it was made by a ''geologist'' that refuses to drop down to muslim generalisation drivel like many village drunkards do lately ??

[Catfish]

They're called geologists and I'm more inclined for botany than geology.

And what part of the analogy you deem not correct, apart from the fact that it was made by a ''geologist'' that refuses to drop down to muslim generalisation drivel like many village drunkards do lately ??

As a geologist, i approve.
Drinking, is another thing :03:

[Oberon]

Well, there are a lot of igneous people in the world...


That is to say that they are formed of hot temperatures, high pressure and sometimes float in water. :hmmm:

[mapuc]

Don't know how to put this so it doesn't sound like I'm for killing innocent people.

As said by Hollande, the attack seem to have been planned outside France, which indicate that ISIS is capable to plane and conduct simultanious attacks on foreign ground

But they(ISIS) are not clever- They could have paralized France or part of France by attacking other important things like poweplants railroad connections a.s.o

I'm wondering when they are going to change course and do that, attack a countries "bloodstream"

Markus

[Tchocky]

I doubt the idea is to cause economic damage, Markus.

They want us scared. That's the goal.

[Stealhead]

I doubt the idea is to cause economic damage, Markus.

They want us scared. That's the goal.


I agree they want simply to terrorize.

[mapuc]

I doubt the idea is to cause economic damage, Markus.

They want us scared. That's the goal.


You are so right, but I think they should start to study history especially the psychologically part of England in the beginning of WWII.

In the beginning the German concentrated their bombings on other things than civilians, when they changed course-start bombing civilians a change of the mind of the British people occurred

Earlier today I heard on Danish TV there was a common response from middle east every country even Israel have condemned this and some of these countries once again stated that it was time to get rid of ISIS

And Russia you know, they don't take hit for nothing

So in all Instead of getting us scared they got us very angry and that will backfire on them.

Sorry for this little off topic historical story

Markus

[Oberon]

They want us scared and they want us to retaliate. Not on them in their bolt-holes in Syria and Iraq, but against the Muslims who we see in the street when we go to the shops. They want to generate that fear between Muslims and non-Muslims, to create that narrative of a war between the West and Islam, the sort of thing that certain people on here already believe in. Because then it makes it easier to recruit Muslims who feel that they are no longer welcome in the West because they are not trusted.
It's up to us, really, how much they succeed.

[mapuc]

They want us scared and they want us to retaliate. Not on them in their bolt-holes in Syria and Iraq, but against the Muslims who we see in the street when we go to the shops. They want to generate that fear between Muslims and non-Muslims, to create that narrative of a war between the West and Islam, the sort of thing that certain people on here already believe in. Because then it makes it easier to recruit Muslims who feel that they are no longer welcome in the West because they are not trusted.
It's up to us, really, how much they succeed.

When posting I didn't think of our own radical right-wing people who see this as a war against the whole Islamic world.

Right now these right-wing people have a good time.



Markus

[Oberon]

I just noticed on the Beebs rolling news site that the Chairman of the Centre for Analysis of Terrorism in Paris has told the BBC that he reckons that there are 3,800 radical Muslims in France.
France has a population of around 5 million Muslims, probably a bit more.

When posting I didn't think of our own radical right-wing people who see this as a war against the whole Islamic world.

Right now these right-wing people have a good time.



Markus


Damn right they are, every Muslim attack is a fantastic day for them. Make no mistake, Front National is going to do well out of this, most likely PEGIDA too. Radicalism breeds radicalism.

[mapuc]

I just noticed on the Beebs rolling news site that the Chairman of the Centre for Analysis of Terrorism in Paris has told the BBC that he reckons that there are 3,800 radical Muslims in France.
France has a population of around 5 million Muslims, probably a bit more.




Damn right they are, every Muslim attack is a fantastic day for them. Make no mistake, Front National is going to do well out of this, most likely PEGIDA too. Radicalism breeds radicalism.

3800 radical Muslims is that who is active or have they also calculated those who support these radical Muslims ?

Just wondering.

Markus

[Oberon]

3800 radical Muslims is that who is active or have they also calculated those who support these radical Muslims ?

Just wondering.

Markus

Couldn't say for certain. I'd say that there are probably more that they haven't picked up, but it's probably based upon internet intercepts, phone conversations and the like. Obviously you can have someone who doesn't express his views over these forms and they'll be harder to detect since the Minority Report doesn't exist yet.

But even if you were to double that figure, it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Muslims that live in France.

[mapuc]

Another thing

Said by Anders Fogh Rasmussen-former Prime minister in Denmark and former leader for NATO.
"Its not enough to bomb ISIS from the air, troops on the ground is necessary too and it's not enough to only use military force we have to put an extra gear into the political effort to create peace in Syria and a more (forgot the word-its was about a government containing Sunni, Shia and other minorities)

Markus

[mapuc]

Couldn't say for certain. I'd say that there are probably more that they haven't picked up, but it's probably based upon internet intercepts, phone conversations and the like. Obviously you can have someone who doesn't express his views over these forms and they'll be harder to detect since the Minority Report doesn't exist yet.

But even if you were to double that figure, it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Muslims that live in France.

Indeed.

I feel for these moderate Muslim right now, they must be living in a uncertain moment right now.

Markus

[Oberon]

Another thing

Said by Anders Fogh Rasmussen-former Prime minister in Denmark and former leader for NATO.
"Its not enough to bomb ISIS from the air, troops on the ground is necessary too and it's not enough to only use military force we have to put an extra gear into the political effort to create peace in Syria and a more (forgot the word-its was about a government containing Sunni, Shia and other minorities)

Markus

He's dreaming, Hollande might be able to stir a bit of support for French boots on the ground in Syria and Iraq from this bloodbath but it would soon dry up, and no-one else in the west is going to get involved in that quagmire. As for an all inclusive government in Syria involving Sunni and Shia representatives...well...I guess it would be worth a try but it would probably end in disaster. You'd need very special representatives in order to prevent it breaking down immediately, and I don't think that these special people existing in the Middle East right now, or indeed anywhere in the world.

Indeed.

I feel for these moderate Muslim right now, they must be living in a uncertain moment right now.

Markus

It can't be easy, especially if you are obviously Muslim in regards to clothing and the like. Likewise, thanks to ignorance, if you're a practicing Sikh or Hindu, you will have to be extra vigilant just in case someone thinks you're a Muslim and comes for you. It's already happened quite a few times, even know Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims have never gotten on. :/\\!!

[mapuc]

I don't know what your left-wing politicians or your right-wings politicians have said today or yesterday

Here in Denmark and Sweden the left-wing are speaking of "Dialog" we should start a "dialog" with ISIS. The most radical are saying it is our own fault.

The right-wing, they are taking about bombing ISIS back to stone age and the most radical are taking about declare war on Islam.

Markus

[Oberon]

I don't know what your left-wing politicians or your right-wings politicians have said today or yesterday

Here in Denmark and Sweden the left-wing are speaking of "Dialog" we should start a "dialog" with ISIS. The most radical are saying it is our own fault.

The right-wing, they are taking about bombing ISIS back to stone age and the most radical are taking about declare war on Islam.

Markus

I dare say we have our own low ranking idiot politicians who are saying things along that line, I mean we did once have a Labour councillor who said that he managed to stop CERN from creating a rift in time and space using his mind. :doh:

[Buddahaid]

I dare say we have our own low ranking idiot politicians who are saying things along that line, I mean we did once have a Labour councillor who said that he managed to stop CERN from creating a rift in time and space using his mind. :doh:

It worked didn't it? :hmm2::o


The best thing to do is just keep quietly taking them out while ignoring them publicly. The hot heads calling for a new crusade would be doing exactly what they want the west to do.

[mapuc]

Read on Facebook

Person 1
Not every Muslim is supporting ISIS

Person 2
Correct not every Muslim is supporting ISIS they are supporting other radical Muslim groups

[eddie]

US strikes at Daesh leader in Libya, I hope they got him!

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-wages-air-strike-on-islamic-state-leader-in-libya/ar-BBn0mCr

[Betonov]

Just send the Russians in.

They're not war weary like NATO is after Iraq and Afganistan and they'll bring a pleasant brutality to ISIS.
Just tell them where ISIS is, a lot of their bombs seem to fall on non-ISIS territory :stare:

[Oberon]

Speaking of the Russians...could this picture be the start of increased co-operation between Russia and the US against Daesh?

http://i.imgur.com/AOF6Yf4.jpg

[Betonov]

Slovene media reported a week ago that Russians are ready to make a deal with the non ISIS rebels in Syria about some govermental changes in Damascus.
I hope this is a) true and b) the terms on both sides won't be something neither side will accept

[Mr Quatro]

Cool picture ... What are they saying?


Obama: "We know from experience that if we do this then they wil do that"

Putin: "Maybe we should nuke them and then blame it on the USA"

Obama: "How about we blame it on France they have nuclear submarines we could blame it on"

Putin: "Won't work unless you wipe them all out"

Bottom line is that isis is saying stay out of our terrritory or we will get rough.

I bet they have some of those left over Syrian wmd hiding somewhere and if they get backed
into a corner they won't out with a whimper :yep:

[Oberon]

Not so sure if the meeting went so well:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT3GyMAVAAA_yRl.jpg:large

[Oberon]

Another way to look at the attack in Paris is perhaps we have hurt them so badly that they feel a need to lash out.
They say that a wounded and cornered animal is the most dangerous. Perhaps Daesh has been hit hard by the combined forces arrayed against them that they have reached out to try and change the tide by increasing paranoia in Europe so that more Muslim reinforcements join their cause. :hmmm:

Bloomberg has a good article on the difficulties of destroying Daesh:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-15/smashing-islamic-state-after-paris-attacks-poses-huge-challenges

[Tchocky]

They have been losing ground in Syria & Iraq, yeah.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Well it looks like the French wasted no time in going after Daesh. Sky News
French fighter planes have dropped 20 bombs on the Islamic State (IS) stronghold of Raqqa in northern Syria.
The bombers hit a jihadi recruitment centre, training camp and arms depot run by the extremist group, according to the French defence ministry.
A spokesman described it as a "massive" attack and France's biggest to date in Syria.
The aerial raid was launched from air bases in United Arab Emirates and Jordan, and involved 10 of France's 12 fighter bombers based there. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-drops-20-bombs-on-is-stronghold-raqqa/ar-BBn2vkJ?li=AAa0dzB

[mapuc]

Read this article in a Danish online newspaper
authors Hamed Abdel Samad German-Egyptian Islam expert


"The dangerous prophet"

"Muhammad is the role model for millions of Muslims - but also for terrorists. This is due to Islam's holy prophet also had tyrannical and paranoiske personality traits

Many Muslims are still today taken captive by the mysterious figure Muhammad, who lived in the 600s. Conversely, also the historical Muhammad himself taken captive by the Muslims exaggerated worship and claim his sanctity

Prophet's omnipresence in education and politics and the excessive focus on the religious component in many Islamic societies blocks the development of alternative identities. Everything goes back to him; he hovers over everything and dominates the daily life of Muslim citizens, politicians and theologians. At the same time prevents Muslims strong emotional attachment to and unreflective exaltation of the prophet that there can be a historical-critical examination of Islam's founder.

The more I'm studying Muhammad, the more it seems to me, as I am, with a deck of tarot cards in your hand. Some cards offer comfort and hope, while others are deeply terrifying. Sometimes I draw the moral argumentative preacher from Mecca, sometimes intolerant warlord from Medina. Here is both a man who speaks of compassion and forgiveness, and a mentally ill mass murderer and tyrant.
"
This was just a part of it its very long and google translate isn't the most perfet toy to use.

Markus

[Stealhead]

Read this article in a Danish online newspaper
authors Hamed Abdel Samad German-Egyptian Islam expert


"The dangerous prophet"

"Muhammad is the role model for millions of Muslims - but also for terrorists. This is due to Islam's holy prophet also had tyrannical and paranoiske personality traits

Many Muslims are still today taken captive by the mysterious figure Muhammad, who lived in the 600s. Conversely, also the historical Muhammad himself taken captive by the Muslims exaggerated worship and claim his sanctity

Prophet's omnipresence in education and politics and the excessive focus on the religious component in many Islamic societies blocks the development of alternative identities. Everything goes back to him; he hovers over everything and dominates the daily life of Muslim citizens, politicians and theologians. At the same time prevents Muslims strong emotional attachment to and unreflective exaltation of the prophet that there can be a historical-critical examination of Islam's founder.

The more I'm studying Muhammad, the more it seems to me, as I am, with a deck of tarot cards in your hand. Some cards offer comfort and hope, while others are deeply terrifying. Sometimes I draw the moral argumentative preacher from Mecca, sometimes intolerant warlord from Medina. Here is both a man who speaks of compassion and forgiveness, and a mentally ill mass murderer and tyrant.
"
This was just a part of it its very long and google translate isn't the most perfet toy to use.

Markus

It didnt translate very well.

[Dmitry Markov]

Read this article in a Danish online newspaper
authors Hamed Abdel Samad German-Egyptian Islam expert


"The dangerous prophet"

"Muhammad is the role model for millions of Muslims - but also for terrorists. This is due to Islam's holy prophet also had tyrannical and paranoiske personality traits

Many Muslims are still today taken captive by the mysterious figure Muhammad, who lived in the 600s. Conversely, also the historical Muhammad himself taken captive by the Muslims exaggerated worship and claim his sanctity

Prophet's omnipresence in education and politics and the excessive focus on the religious component in many Islamic societies blocks the development of alternative identities. Everything goes back to him; he hovers over everything and dominates the daily life of Muslim citizens, politicians and theologians. At the same time prevents Muslims strong emotional attachment to and unreflective exaltation of the prophet that there can be a historical-critical examination of Islam's founder.

The more I'm studying Muhammad, the more it seems to me, as I am, with a deck of tarot cards in your hand. Some cards offer comfort and hope, while others are deeply terrifying. Sometimes I draw the moral argumentative preacher from Mecca, sometimes intolerant warlord from Medina. Here is both a man who speaks of compassion and forgiveness, and a mentally ill mass murderer and tyrant.
"
This was just a part of it its very long and google translate isn't the most perfet toy to use.

Markus

This article word by word repeats what I've been told in institute during lectures on History of Religions. As I see it: it's always a matter of individual choice - what kind of a person you want to become and the same time it's a matter of your environment ( who are your family, how well are your economic conditions and so on). As for Muslims - their religion gives them way to become either a decent person from, say, Christian point of view or to become a person that is not so decent. What puzzles here is that people choose Islam because it gives an individual a very clear instructions what to do and what not to do - so being a Muslim means that you have strong moral base and confidence in your sacred fate. And here is where environment begins to play it's role - that is the only thing which defines will a person become a terrorist or a good citizen since you cannot criticize the Prophet.

My country is multicultural and I have friends who are Muslims, citizens of my country, and are very good people from any point of view. On the other hand we suffer from Islamic terrorists who are also citizens of our country. Sometimes I wonder what made the both what they are and why they are so polar while sharing the same religion. And I think that there must be some other factors - that work in pair with religion that define a person.

[CaptainRamius]

They have been losing ground in Syria & Iraq, yeah.

Definitely. After the continuous bombings by the US and NATO, ISIS is now on its way back down the food chain :)

[Betonov]

Ugh, facebook at it's ''best''
The people behind the keyboards I mean.

While I understand people like eddy wondering where's the compassion for Palestinians, Lebanese and Afgans that also suffered attacks in the last week, where I can say for myself that it's my eurocentricity (that I'm not ashamed of) and media hypocrisy (whch is shameful),
I don't understand people that one week ago posted moronics that they should post machine guns on the border to prevent migrants coming in and now they're protesting people are more compasionate to the French than Palestinians.
No wait, I do understand them. They're morons and retards and... I should stop here

:nope:

[CaptainRamius]

Did you guys know that ISIS is using the PlayStation 4 to contact possible recruits? Just wanted to get that out there

[ikalugin]

I doubt that we would go alone on the ground against the ISIS, we prefer providing CAS to Iranians and Syrians.

[Betonov]

Just a few spetznaz.
You know.
To cut the jewels off ISIS fighters.

[Jimbuna]

Cool picture ... What are they saying?



The first one to find the ace of hearts wins the pot...

http://i.imgur.com/Nh18MYR.jpg

[CaptainRamius]

I doubt that we would go alone on the ground against the ISIS, we prefer providing CAS to Iranians and Syrians.

True. But we would win faster if the US put troops on the ground.
:hmph:

[CaptainRamius]

Just a few spetznaz.
You know.
To cut the jewels off ISIS fighters.

Spetznaz instead of SEAL teams? Unlikely. :hmm2:

[Oberon]

Would be nice if it could be a UN ground mission, you know...the sort of thing that the UN was designed for.

Yeah, I'll keep dreaming. :har:

[Catfish]

Would be nice if it could be a UN ground mission, you know...the sort of thing that the UN was designed for.

They are threatening all terrorists with a forever debate, and bore them to death :yep:

Yeah, I'll keep dreaming. :har:
:cry:

[CaptainRamius]

They are threatening all terrorists with a forever debate, and bore them to death :yep:


:cry:

That's a great way to win: boring press conferences with ISIS :har:

[Betonov]

They are threatening all terrorists with a forever debate, and bore them to death :yep:




If words were water, the humans would destroy us by drowning ~ Klingon saying

[Rockstar]

Would be nice if it could be a UN ground mission, you know...the sort of thing that the UN was designed for.

Yeah, I'll keep dreaming. :har:


Lol, only UN force I've ever seen were Pakistani. When we went on patrol we had one standing order. Dont go out at the same time they do.

[Oberon]

http://i.imgur.com/oG1p95r.png
This is the news, and this is HunterICX reading it... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwGGcZoRs-k)

Anon has declared war on Daesh. #OpParis began on Monday and so far around 1800 Daesh related websites have been hit and taken down by Anon in around three hours. Since Daesh relies heavily on online indoctrination this will hopefully have a big hit on their operations.

So, there you have it, Daesh are finally going to get ducked by their 72 virgins. :yeah:

[Betonov]

http://i.imgur.com/thrnX3z.jpg

[ikalugin]

Well PRC was looking into pledging an 8k strong force to the UN, which is a good start. The problem is that UN could not muster enough to defeat ISIS but it certainly could provide security to the non ISIS areas, for example the ones currently held by the rebels.

[Mr Quatro]

Vietnam had neigbors that cared, but Vietnam itself had no Navy to speak of (two PT boats attacking a destroyer?) (I don't think so).

They had no airforce to speak of except for Chinese planes and pilots, they had no supply lines except for men in black clothes carrying everything they needed at night to avoid the B-52 bombers by day.

Yet North Vietnam won the war, a long drawn out war, a war of brother against brother.

Now we have isis claiming a large part of Iraq and a small northern region of Syria in the middle of a war of brother against brother with rebel groups attacking both Syrian armies and isis to the north.

I'm no general, but in three years all we have done is bomb isis, Russia has bombed isis and now France has bombed isis held areas.

The blame is easy to see we have taken a, "We are doing something approach" instead of a winning approach.

Lets get serious and ask congress to delcare war on isis using every weapon (except nuclear ones) to defeat them.

We better do something before the war of fear comes ashore in America.

As a small child I use to play army with toys on a picnic table full of sand when unknown to me my cousin had planted bottle caps under the sand while I slept and when I awoke he wanted to play war.

I attacked and he blew me apart ... What I'm trying to get at is that I don't know nothing about war ... with that in mind I propose that we (the USA) drop in paratroopers with a way to get them out in a hurry if something goes wrong and have the isis army come and get us.

We retreat and bomb the hell out of them while they are out of their strong holds. The old Greek Trojan horse sort of thing, but we use fear to destroy their faith.

Cut off supply lines and make Turkey put all of its troops on the border ... claim Syria free of all terrorist and wait for the next group of wacko's to rise up against freedom in the world.

If I a nobody nothing can come up with simple plan why can't our Commander in Chief and all of his Airforce, Navy and Army might come up with a plan?

[Dowly]

Your plan sucks.

[Oberon]

The thing is, we do have Daesh on the back foot, they have been losing ground in Iraq and in Syria.
Will this last? Probably not, there will be counter-attacks and there will be victories and defeats ahead.
The reason that the US has been so reluctant to go all in is because such a conflict would last for decades and cost trillions of dollars. Obama doesn't want to be remembered as the man who committed America to that, especially not after George W. Bush and the invasion of Iraq.
No, in any operation in Iraq and Syria it will have to be a multi-national operation under the leadership of the United Nations. Of course, there are some tricky legal loopholes to get through first, for example, declaring war on 'Islamic State' is tricky because hardly anyone actually recognises them as a state.
Then, of course, there's the question of Assad, Iran would want him to stay in power, Russia is moving into a position where they'd accept him leaving power but would probably want to able to choose his successor, Saudi Arabia would want a Saudi leaning person in charge of Syria and the US just wants Assad gone and preferably a democratic leadership in place.
Getting rid of Daesh is just the first problem in Syria and Iraq, and any mission in these nations has got to prepare for the victory just as much as the operation itself, because any victory is going to leave a brief vacuum that's going to be filled by someone or something, perhaps even worse than Daesh. :o
So, it's not easy, but I think the first steps really need to begin at the UN, and that we also need to think about what we need to do in Europe at the same time as our actions in Syria and Iraq, taking on the jihadist hot-spots, cracking down on jihadi recruitment but at the same time making sure that we don't alienate the Muslims who just want a peaceful life in Europe and don't want to be attacked because of their choice of religion. In this fight, the likes of Front National and PEGIDA might also need attacking at the same time we take on Daesh. :hmmm:
Ignorance, fear and anger are our enemies here.

[ikalugin]

Meeting on the topic of the downed airliner has concluded:
- that it was a terrorist attack.
- Putin says that those responsible would be punished, whatever place they use for hiding.
- the air operation in Syria would be expanded.
- Putin invokes article 51 of the UN charter.
- Putin says that those sheltering and aiding the criminals should know the consequences of doing so.

[CaptainRamius]

Meeting on the topic of the downed airliner has concluded:
- that it was a terrorist attack.
- Putin says that those responsible would be punished, whatever place they use for hiding.
- the air operation in Syria would be expanded.
- Putin invokes article 51 of the UN charter.
- Putin says that those sheltering and aiding the criminals should know the consequences of doing so.

Are you talking about the liner that went down awhile ago?
I thought they concluded that it was a terrorist attack about a week ago.

[Betonov]

Send in the bear so they can hear death coming.
And send them round the clock so the only thing they'll know is the thunder above and when they finaly snap they'll run outside to meet the bombs just to stop the thunder.

[Oberon]

Send in the bear so they can hear death coming.
And send them round the clock so the only thing they'll know is the thunder above and when they finaly snap they'll run outside to meet the bombs just to stop the thunder.

:har: :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Are you talking about the liner that went down awhile ago?
I thought they concluded that it was a terrorist attack about a week ago.

They did but Russia wasn't 'officially' convinced.....they are now.

[CaptainRamius]

They did but Russia wasn't 'officially' convinced.....they are now.

They better be. They can't keep denying a terrorist attack just because it took place on one of their aircraft.

[Oberon]

Other news:

Netherlands - Germany match cancelled, stadium evacuated amid security concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34849263

Multiple US states reject Syrian refugees, despite none of the attackers in Paris actually being named as Syrian refugees at this time:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34835353

http://liveactionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Barack-Obama-Facepalm.jpg

[August]

despite none of the attackers in Paris actually being named as Syrian refugees at this time:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34835353

From your article:

one of them is thought to have been a Syrian who entered Europe via Greece with migrants.

[Jimbuna]

The passport was a fake as far as I'm aware.

[Oberon]

The passport was a fake as far as I'm aware.

Indeed, although there are definitely concerns about border security because of the taunts from the Paris mastermind that he was able to enter and exit the EU at will. I can't say I'm surprised, although our border security is getting better after the refugee crisis, it's still very difficult to make it definite between the EU and non-EU nations.

Meanwhile in Germany, a concert has also been evacuated and rumour has it that a bomb has been found in an ambulance parked outside the football stadium that the Germany vs Netherlands match was due to be played in.

In the UK one of the most heavily defended football matches is about to begin, with Wembley stadium lit up in red, white and blue as France are about to play against England (and likely kick us into next century).

[mapuc]

Heard something interesting on Danish TV earlier today

A political commentator said

It was not so clever for Soeren Espersen to say these thing(he said we should start hitting women and children to get these terrorist) but we have to ask our self, do we really want to get rid of Daesh or not ?

If we really want beat them, then we also must expect civilian causality meaning sometime our pilotes have to drop bombs where there could be civilians

The question is, how much of this can the people in the west handle ?
If we daily get pictures of dead children and/or women

Markus

[mapuc]

Indeed, although there are definitely concerns about border security because of the taunts from the Paris mastermind that he was able to enter and exit the EU at will. I can't say I'm surprised, although our border security is getting better after the refugee crisis, it's still very difficult to make it definite between the EU and non-EU nations.

Meanwhile in Germany, a concert has also been evacuated and rumour has it that a bomb has been found in an ambulance parked outside the football stadium that the Germany vs Netherlands match was due to be played in.

In the UK one of the most heavily defended football matches is about to begin, with Wembley stadium lit up in red, white and blue as France are about to play against England (and likely kick us into next century).

A fake it was, I have read that it was his, something about fingerprints/DNA. He had sad he was born in 1990 but he was born 1987 somewhere in Syria.

Markus

[Oberon]

Well, we've been collecting collateral for a while, I mean you can do your best to avoid civilian collateral but sometimes it will happen no matter what you do. Hellfire missiles and laser guided bombs have a blast radius which will not only kill the jihadi but anyone within a good few feet of him or her.
The Jihadis know that we try to avoid collateral so they will use civilians as shields, it's a classic trick, one of the oldest...heck, Saddam did it often enough.

That's why I put a lot of hope on the ARSS and the possibility of guided bullets and micro-missiles. If we can increase the lethality and accuracy of our shots while decreasing the lethal radius, then we can cut down on collateral and the negative side-effects that it has.
Of course, the down-side of stand-off warfare is that you need good intel, and I think that's where we've struggled a fair bit. :hmmm:

[Oberon]

A fake it was, I have read that it was his, something about fingerprints/DNA. He had sad he was born in 1990 but he was born 1987 somewhere in Syria.

Markus

Yes, there is the fingerprint clue, it is possible that he did enter through Greece, that can't be ruled out that this time, that is assuming that the severed finger was from the bomber. So far though, that is the only non-EU possibility, the rest are EU natives.

[mapuc]

Well, we've been collecting collateral for a while, I mean you can do your best to avoid civilian collateral but sometimes it will happen no matter what you do. Hellfire missiles and laser guided bombs have a blast radius which will not only kill the jihadi but anyone within a good few feet of him or her.
The Jihadis know that we try to avoid collateral so they will use civilians as shields, it's a classic trick, one of the oldest...heck, Saddam did it often enough.

That's why I put a lot of hope on the ARSS and the possibility of guided bullets and micro-missiles. If we can increase the lethality and accuracy of our shots while decreasing the lethal radius, then we can cut down on collateral and the negative side-effects that it has.
Of course, the down-side of stand-off warfare is that you need good intel, and I think that's where we've struggled a fair bit. :hmmm:

You know have been thinking a lot of sci-fi these days

Imagine this

A drone drop some mosquitoes(man made special metal a.s.o) they find their targets and "hit" the terrorist.

These mosquitoes have eyes(camera, so the operator can see where he/the mosquitoes is flying and where the terrorist is.

OK maybe its to much sci-fi

Markus

[Oberon]

You know have been thinking a lot of sci-fi these days

Imagine this

A drone drop some mosquitoes(man made special metal a.s.o) they find their targets and "hit" the terrorist.

These mosquitoes have eyes(camera, so the operator can see where he/the mosquitoes is flying and where the terrorist is.

OK maybe its to much sci-fi

Markus

Not too much, I'd say we'll have something like that within the century. Drones are getting smaller and smaller now. Recon drones in particular since they don't have any need to carry weaponry. Of course, the kicker is making the weaponry small enough to fit on the drone whilst still being lethal enough to kill the target but not lethal enough that it kills everyone around him.

And then, of course, there's the kicker that this could just as easily be used against us, by either terrorists or a tyrannical government (TM). :hmmm:

[mapuc]

Not too much, I'd say we'll have something like that within the century. Drones are getting smaller and smaller now. Recon drones in particular since they don't have any need to carry weaponry. Of course, the kicker is making the weaponry small enough to fit on the drone whilst still being lethal enough to kill the target but not lethal enough that it kills everyone around him.

And then, of course, there's the kicker that this could just as easily be used against us, by either terrorists or a tyrannical government (TM). :hmmm:

I forgot two things in my scenario

1. These mosquitoes have poison in their "fuselage"
2. Some kind of self destruction after successful mission or failed mission

Markus

[Oberon]

That'll work, a sort of piloted dart gun. In fact, I recall an episode of the old TV program 'Bugs' which had similar things. I doubt such a device would be too far off, in fact there might already be prototypes in the works.


Coming back to current events;

There have been no explosives found in Hannover after the evacuation of the stadium and a concert, and the cancelling of the Germany vs Netherlands match. It would seem that the ambulance rumour and the reports of a man being held at gunpoint were either false alarms or fabrications. German authorities do state though that a 'concrete threat' was made towards the area.

[mapuc]

That'll work, a sort of piloted dart gun. In fact, I recall an episode of the old TV program 'Bugs' which had similar things. I doubt such a device would be too far off, in fact there might already be prototypes in the works.


Coming back to current events;

There have been no explosives found in Hannover after the evacuation of the stadium and a concert, and the cancelling of the Germany vs Netherlands match. It would seem that the ambulance rumour and the reports of a man being held at gunpoint were either false alarms or fabrications. German authorities do state though that a 'concrete threat' was made towards the area.

Could be interesting to see where this "story" started from.

Markus

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

That'll work, a sort of piloted dart gun. In fact, I recall an episode of the old TV program 'Bugs' which had similar things. I doubt such a device would be too far off, in fact there might already be prototypes in the works.

I saw a program on the History Channel a couple of days ago and they talked about this company here in the US that's making a drone called the "Switchblade", that could possibly be used to deliver a small but powerful explosive charge to a target. http://www.avinc.com/uas/small_uas/switchblade/

[eddie]

Looks like Boko Haram doesn't like Daesh getting all the headlines. They have set off a bomb in Nigeria that killed at least 35-40 people and wounded another 80!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/17/nigeria-bombing/75960116/

[Oberon]

I believe, on the quiet, Boko Haram have actually killed more people than Daesh, but of course, as we've already established earlier in this thread (or possibly in the Paris one) when it's not in the West it's not in the headlines.
Sooner or later, we're going to have to take a good look at Boko Haram, they may be content to stick to their own continent for now, but it won't stay that way forever.

Still, in rather strange news, I read that Hezbollah and Hamas have condemned the attack in Paris and stated that they stand by France. At least they seem content to play the middle ground for now, see who is where when the dust settles.

But yes, this whole thing in the US, even if it's true that members of the attack on Paris (and the number of attackers is up to 9 now, from 8) did hide in the refugee stream, and I'd be surprised if it's not, to deny a whole set of people a new chance at life out of fear that one of them might explode...is pretty much what these guys who shot up Paris want the US to do. They can find other ways into the US, or just radicalise those who are already living there, but making Americans scared of Muslim refugees, that's something they don't have total control over, they can push events in the right direction by creating terror acts, but if people don't react to them, then their goal is disrupted. The goal to force all Muslim people to have to fight the west because there is no-one else that wants them other than their radicalised brethren.

It's all psychology, quite a clever plan really and the way the winds are blowing in Europe and the US at the moment, it's a plan that's working.

[ikalugin]

Yesterday we have conducted the first large scale airstrike in Syria, as per Putins (post airliner attack) directive. In that attack we have used:
- 5 Tu95SM bombers.
- 6 Tu160 bombers.
- 12 Tu22M3 bombers.
- 8 Su34 bombers.
- 4 Su27SM fighters.

Infographic:
http://savepic.su/6519845m.jpg (http://savepic.su/6519845.htm)
http://savepic.su/6508581m.jpg (http://savepic.su/6508581.htm)

The Tu95SMs and Tu160s launched 34 cruise missiles, Tu22M3s and Su34s conducted bomb strikes. This large scale airstrike was conducted from Russian soil. Some of the Su34 sorties were tasked with destruction of oil transportation assets, 410 oil tankers were destroyed.
Further such air strikes are expected. Our Navy grouping in the area (centered on the Slava class cruiser Moscow) was ordered to cooperate with French Navy as they would with an ally, to plan and prepare for joint operations.

We have also concentrated an orbital grouping to improve our intel gathering capabilities, with 10 IMINT and ELINT/SIGINT satelites in orbits centered on ME. We plan to keep expanding this grouping.
http://savepic.su/6496293m.jpg (http://savepic.su/6496293.htm)

Video:
https://youtu.be/RS2w1zzLrmg

[Jimbuna]

Indeed, although there are definitely concerns about border security because of the taunts from the Paris mastermind that he was able to enter and exit the EU at will. I can't say I'm surprised, although our border security is getting better after the refugee crisis, it's still very difficult to make it definite between the EU and non-EU nations.



It was noticeable when I flew into the UK (Newcastle Airport) at the back end of September.

No HMRC staff on duty but double figure numbers of HM Immigration officers.

[CaptainRamius]

Looks like Boko Haram doesn't like Daesh getting all the headlines. They have set off a bomb in Nigeria that killed at least 35-40 people and wounded another 80!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/17/nigeria-bombing/75960116/

Good god. ISIS and Boko Haram. Great. Just what we need now. This is nuts.

[Mike Abberton]

Still, in rather strange news, I read that Hezbollah and Hamas have condemned the attack in Paris and stated that they stand by France. At least they seem content to play the middle ground for now, see who is where when the dust settles.

Not all that strange, really. Hezbollah is aligned tightly with Shi'a and as much in conflict with the Sunni-aligned Daesh as the West. Hamas is technically a Sunni faction, but with strong ties with Shi'a-dominated Iran. Iran has also come out strongly against the Paris attack, despite it's ongoing political struggles with the West.

If the fallout of the Arab Spring and the rise of Daesh has brought one thing out clearly, it's that even fundamentalist Islam is hardly a united front. Sunnis and Shiites are probably more likely to attack each other as attack the West.

Mike

[eddie]

This is probably a big mistake to show the Russians a picture of the homemade bomb they put on the Russian airliner. Got a feeling there will be some extra Russian made weapons hitting Syria here shortly!:yep:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/islamic-state-shows-photo-of-improvised-russian-plane-bomb/ar-BBn9a24

[Jimbuna]

And so they will reap what they have sown.

[Mr Quatro]

The Russians are now having target practice with weapons that they have, but have yet to be used in any other war.

That was a chilling site to see a low flying missile over Syria.

Is this good or bad?

[Oberon]

Tu-160s and Tu-22Ms have been launching attacks against Daesh, Tu-160s launching 12 ALCMs from Russian territory.

[ikalugin]

Tu160s were launching new Kh101 cruise missiles, Tu95MS were launching older Kh555s, Tu22M3s were doing dumb bombing.

Tu160 and Kh101:
https://youtu.be/d48LHI6u3bY

Tu95MS and Kh555:
https://youtu.be/E6ro3Yrr3Ko

Tu22M3 and dumb bombs:
https://youtu.be/K6gpFcrZlPs

Open hunt on the oil infrastructure:
https://youtu.be/WgYbiCGYy2c
https://youtu.be/3EIwy2RoQo4

[CaptainRamius]

Tu160s were launching new Kh101 cruise missiles, Tu95MS were launching older Kh555s, Tu22M3s were doing dumb bombing.

Tu160 and Kh101:
https://youtu.be/d48LHI6u3bY

Tu95MS and Kh555:
https://youtu.be/E6ro3Yrr3Ko

Tu22M3 and dumb bombs:
https://youtu.be/K6gpFcrZlPs

Open hunt on the oil infrastructure:
https://youtu.be/WgYbiCGYy2c
https://youtu.be/3EIwy2RoQo4

Ooh, bombers! Russia is finally getting involved. About time :nope:

[CaptainRamius]

The Russians are now having target practice with weapons that they have, but have yet to be used in any other war.

That was a chilling site to see a low flying missile over Syria.

Is this good or bad?

Good. It means Russia is finally involved in the War on Terror, and that ISIS should expect heavy air strikes

[mapuc]

After have read one of ikalugin earlier post where he wrote

"Our Navy grouping in the area (centered on the Slava class cruiser Moscow) was ordered to cooperate with French Navy as they would with an ally, to plan and prepare for joint operations."

Made me think, some kind of joined military operation against daesh, must have something to do with their two mega "failure"

Killing Russian flight passenger and the terror attack in Paris.

Some of my FB-friends are convinced we will very soon see France boots on the ground in Syria.

Markus

[Betonov]

Great, now my parents are panicking about this mess. :/\\!!
These are people that were trained for guerilla war by Yugoslavia since they were 16 and now they're panicking about some sand rats getting lucky in France :/\\!!

[Rockstar]

The Russians are now having target practice with weapons that they have, but have yet to be used in any other war.

That was a chilling site to see a low flying missile over Syria.

Is this good or bad?

I would say it depends upon which end of the missile you're looking at. Incoming, bad; Outgoing, good.

[Rockstar]

Great, now my parents are panicking about this mess. :/\\!!
These are people that were trained for guerilla war by Yugoslavia since they were 16 and now they're panicking about some sand rats getting lucky in France :/\\!!

As guerrilla fighters they're probably trained to know what it takes to pull off something like the attacks on Paris. They're likely very aware it took more than just a few uneducated lone wolf sand rats who met online the night before. Rather a larger network of people nobody has seen yet who can organize the training, plan for and supply the logistics for such a complex attack. Im not panicking but if in their educated opinion they have concerns. Well, Id be a bit concerned too.

[Betonov]

They know what it takes to ambush an armoured column, live of the land and blow up bridges. They knew at least.
A large drive-by with grenades is not guerilla, it's something street gangs know how to do in one afternoon. And kill more people a year even in Europe.

[Rockstar]

I don't know, multipule coordinated timed attacks, armed with high explosives, automatic weapons and hand grenades just doesn't strike me as a couple of OG lampin with a biscuit drinkin the milk of some wankster frogs yo.



FYI translation: "OG", old gang; "lampin", hanging out under street lights; "biscuit", gun; "drinking milk", plotting a hit; "wankster", wannbe gangster; "frog", french; "yo", yo.



.

[Stealhead]

I would call ISIS fighting tactics as light infantry I would call the FSA and Kurds style of fighting the same. They are not an insurgency in the areas they control. I would agree that ISIS seeks to have an insurgency style of terror in areas that is dose not control.

In the US OG means original gangster or a gang member that has survived some time as a member of his gang. For example Snoop Dog said in a song "OG of the LBC". Meaning Original Gangster of the Long Beach Crips. You can also ask Ice T. I learned much about street gangs in the military because the military is a better option than jail for some folks.

[Betonov]

I don't know, multipule coordinated timed attacks, armed with high explosives, automatic weapons and hand grenades just doesn't strike me as a couple of OG lampin with a biscuit drinkin the milk of some wankster frogs yo.


.

OK, I laughed at that one.

Roughly 80% of every planning is exit strategy. Whether it be an ambush, bank robbery, prank ringing of the doorbell or assasination.
Terrorists have no exit strategy except getting killed.

That's why they're so hard to detect. There's no observing the guard routes, no purchase of more specialised equipment (smoke grenades, police radio receivers, fast and capable getaway vehicles), no detailed floorplans of targets for knowing back exits, no testing the police responses (it's always a few minutes wherever you are and then it's a firefight).
Europe is not some weapon barren wasteland, just go east and buying an AK is like buying a used car.

9/11, that one was planning and logistics.
This one was: here's a gun, kill as many as possible before you're martyred.

[ikalugin]

After have read one of ikalugin earlier post where he wrote
"Our Navy grouping in the area (centered on the Slava class cruiser Moscow) was ordered to cooperate with French Navy as they would with an ally, to plan and prepare for joint operations."
Made me think, some kind of joined military operation against daesh, must have something to do with their two mega "failure"
Killing Russian flight passenger and the terror attack in Paris.
Some of my FB-friends are convinced we will very soon see France boots on the ground in Syria.
Markus
The naval grouping was tasked with cooperating with the French carrier group. So far there were no valid indications that France would get boots on the ground.
On the other hand Chinese rhetoric was getting harder.

[Jimbuna]

The UK are to send HMS Defender to escort the French carrier and provide air defence.

[CaptainRamius]

The UK are to send HMS Defender to escort the French carrier and provide air defence.

Ooh, nice. Maybe it can use some Tomahawks to take out some extremists too.

[August]

Interesting little tidbit I just learned about daesh:

Daesh: This is a term the militant group hates. French President François Hollande has used it since the attacks Friday, and first used it in September 2014. It’s an Arabic acronym for “al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-Iraq wa al-Sham.” It can sometimes be spelled DAIISH, Da'esh or Daech, a popular French version. The hacktivist group Anonymous and President Barack Obama have used the term since the deadly terrorist attacks in Paris. Thanks to Arabic wordplay, it could also be an insult. “Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from ‘to trample down and crush’ to ‘a bigot who imposes his view on others,'" Boston Globe writer Zeba Khan reported in October 2014. ISIS threatened “to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name,” the Associated Press wrote in September 2014.


http://www.ibtimes.com/isil-isis-islamic-state-daesh-whats-difference-2187131

[Rockstar]

OK, I laughed at that one.

Roughly 80% of every planning is exit strategy. Whether it be an ambush, bank robbery, prank ringing of the doorbell or assasination.
Terrorists have no exit strategy except getting killed.

That's why they're so hard to detect. There's no observing the guard routes, no purchase of more specialised equipment (smoke grenades, police radio receivers, fast and capable getaway vehicles), no detailed floorplans of targets for knowing back exits, no testing the police responses (it's always a few minutes wherever you are and then it's a firefight).
Europe is not some weapon barren wasteland, just go east and buying an AK is like buying a used car.

9/11, that one was planning and logistics.
This one was: here's a gun, kill as many as possible before you're martyred.

True, a professional soldier values life particularly his own and looks foward to the day he can go home and grow old. These attackers look at life and death much differently than most. There is no need nor desire to plan an exit strategy they are religious zealots for them martyrdom (death) is the highest honor.

[Oberon]

The UK are to send HMS Defender to escort the French carrier and provide air defence.

Ooh, nice. Maybe it can use some Tomahawks to take out some extremists too.

That's if we have enough money to load the Tomahawks... :doh:

Interesting little tidbit I just learned about daesh:



http://www.ibtimes.com/isil-isis-islamic-state-daesh-whats-difference-2187131

Why do you think I've been calling them that for the past couple of months? :03: As the Abbott said, probably one of the few sensible things he said: "Daesh hates being referred to by this term, and what they don’t like has an instinctive ­appeal to me." :yep:

Heck, even the Iranians call them Daesh. :yeah:

[Betonov]

Daesh it is :)


Meanwhile, Bosnia and Herzegovina, yesterday at 19:30 local time two Bosnian soldiers were killed and one wounded along with 3 more civilians wounded. The soldiers were unarmed at that moment.

The attacker, Enes Omeragić, fled to his home and blew himself up after the police special forces surrounded him.

The attacker has supposed to have been fighting in Syria and was a member of the vehabin, another extremist group.

[Mr Quatro]

I think the intel groups in France know more than they are admitting:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/19/france-chemical-attack-risk/76036204/

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls warned that France could face chemical or biological terror attacks. He did not say whether there was a specific threat.

"We must not rule anything out. I say it with all the precautions needed. But we know and bear in mind that there is also a risk of chemical or bacteriological weapons," Valls said, speaking to parliament ahead of the state of emergency vote. "The macabre imagination of the masterminds is limitless."

U.S. and Iraqi intelligence officials told the Associated Press that Islamic State has a branch seeking to produce such weapons.

I didn't see this on ABC this morning ... just found it on Fox: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/19/testing-gates-syrians-nabbed-south-border-stoke-terror-fears/

Two separate reports of groups of America-bound Syrians detained below the U.S. southern border in recent days are raising concerns that Islamic State militants could be probing security – and stoking fears some may already be here.

Honduran authorities on Tuesday arrested five Syrians they said were headed for the U.S. with stolen or doctored Greek passports, but later said the men were college students fleeing war at home. On the same day and 1,800 miles north, two Syrian families were taken into custody at a border checkpoint in Texas.

[Oberon]

Daesh it is :)


Meanwhile, Bosnia and Herzegovina, yesterday at 19:30 local time two Bosnian soldiers were killed and one wounded along with 3 more civilians wounded. The soldiers were unarmed at that moment.

The attacker, Enes Omeragić, fled to his home and blew himself up after the police special forces surrounded him.

The attacker has supposed to have been fighting in Syria and was a member of the vehabin, another extremist group.

Damn, that's unfortunate news, inevitable but still unfortunate.


I think the intel groups in France know more than they are admitting:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/19/france-chemical-attack-risk/76036204/



I didn't see this on ABC this morning ... just found it on Fox: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/19/testing-gates-syrians-nabbed-south-border-stoke-terror-fears/

The French intel services knew something was up, presumably chatter had either died down or gone up, but it's very hard to pinpoint where and when such a thing is going to happen unless the co-ordination is done in a manner in which the intel services can pick it up and decode it.
It's a bit like the days before Pearl Harbor, the US knew that the Japanese were preparing something but didn't know where exactly it would come from.
The situation in the UK is similar, we've been on a high state of alert for nearly a year now, and plots have been foiled, well...so we're told anyway, but sooner or later, something is going to slip through the net.

[August]

Daesh it is :)

I'm sure her worshipers are very happy not to be accidentally associated with such gutter trash. :yep:

http://iranpoliticsclub.net/authors/queen-nefertari/images/Egyptian%20Goddess%20Isis%202.jpg

[Oberon]

I'm sure her worshipers are very happy not to be accidentally associated with such gutter trash. :yep:



Indeed:

http://i.imgur.com/uQ2JrbC.jpg?1

[Betonov]

I'm honestly a lot more affraid of Hydra than Daesh.

[eddie]

Looks like they are adapting to the bombing campaign! Lots of tunnels and shelters found in Sinjar.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/elaborate-islamic-state-tunnel-network-found-in-liberated-iraqi-city-of-sinjar-1447895191

[CaptainRamius]

Looks like they are adapting to the bombing campaign! Lots of tunnels and shelters found in Sinjar.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/elaborate-islamic-state-tunnel-network-found-in-liberated-iraqi-city-of-sinjar-1447895191

Are you saying that some of our air strikes might have been doing nothing to them? Just what we need now. Another nutty, but good, idea by ISIS.
:shucks:

[mapuc]

Said by the Danish Politician Naser Khader(born in Syria)right now on Danish TV

It is a myth that we have stopped daesh-They control an area the size of Great Britain the are very near Damascus.

I'm not in doubt he know a lot more than I do, so what are we bombing ?

And furthermore are our politician talking with two tongues ?

Tongues 1. We fight daesh hard with massive bombings

Tongues 2. We have to be careful-in case daesh should win and they have the control of all the oil in the middle east=must have a "nice relationship" with daesh

Guess I'm just "talking in the sleep"

Markus

[CaptainRamius]

Said by the Danish Politician Naser Khader(born in Syria)right now on Danish TV

It is a myth that we have stopped daesh-They control an area the size of Great Britain the are very near Damascus.

I'm not in doubt he know a lot more than I do, so what are we bombing ?

And furthermore are our politician talking with two tongues ?

Tongues 1. We fight daesh hard with massive bombings

Tongues 2. We have to be careful-in case daesh should win and they have the control of all the oil in the middle east=must have a "nice relationship" with daesh

Guess I'm just "talking in the sleep"

Markus

I think it would be better for humanity if we didn't go with the latter :D

[mapuc]

I think it would be better for humanity if we didn't go with the latter :D

I can't be the only one who, after have watch lots and lots of news throughout the years and read lots and lots of news paper throughout the years and heard lots and lots of Politicians and expert saying this and that throughout the years and of course read many of your brilliant posting, been thinking

Are we really fighting daesh or not ?

Markus

[Betonov]

What about napalm or thermobaric bombs at tunnel entrances.
To suck oxygen out of the systems ??

[CaptainRamius]

I can't be the only one who, after have watch lots and lots of news throughout the years and read lots and lots of news paper throughout the years and heard lots and lots of Politicians and expert saying this and that throughout the years and of course many of your brilliant posting, been thinking

Are we really fighting daesh or not ?

Markus

We aren't, our missiles are :D
In the end, ISIS will definitely lose. That's foreseeable. With France, the US, and now Russia fighting, I have no doubt that we'll win. Question is: how big will the losses be?

What about napalm or thermobaric bombs at tunnel entrances.
To suck oxygen out of the systems ??

That'd be way to brutal. Well, then again....

[Betonov]

That'd be way to brutal. Well, then again....

There's also sending packages filled with a millon bullet ants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraponera_clavata). They'll flood the tunnels to escape the heat.

[Oberon]

There's also sending packages filled with a millon bullet ants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraponera_clavata). They'll flood the tunnels to escape the heat.

Got to collect the buggers first.
Napalm and Thermobaric bombs might work, but you'd need to get all the entrances at the same time or it'll just draw air through the tunnel rather than sucking it all out.
Another option would be to use bunker busters or earthquake bombs to collapse the tunnels. Bury them alive... :yep:

EDIT: The GBU-57A/B would do the job, but they cost around three million dollars each and only the B2 and B52 can take it since it weighs about 14 metric tons.

[CaptainRamius]

Got to collect the buggers first.
Napalm and Thermobaric bombs might work, but you'd need to get all the entrances at the same time or it'll just draw air through the tunnel rather than sucking it all out.
Another option would be to use bunker busters or earthquake bombs to collapse the tunnels. Bury them alive... :yep:

Or, you can just, ya'know, storm in there and shoot them all. Considering they haven't ran away to escape the bullet ants and thermonaric bombs. :D

[mapuc]

We aren't, our missiles are :D
In the end, ISIS will definitely lose. That's foreseeable. With France, the US, and now Russia fighting, I have no doubt that we'll win. Question is: how big will the losses be?


It's still a human finger to press the button to send this "missiles" away

As mentioned before or as this Naser Khader said

It is a myth we have stopped them, they control an area big as Great Britain he also said they are marching on

Said by an Middle east expert on Swedish TV some years ago

Despite our daily bombing daesh have gained control over more areas

All this have made me think-Are we fighting daesh or not or are we not doing it good enough ?

Markus

[CaptainRamius]

It's still a human finger to press the button to send this "missiles" away

As mentioned before or as this Naser Khader said

It is a myth we have stopped them, they control an area big as Great Britain he also said they are marching on

Said by an Middle east expert on Swedish TV some years ago

Despite our daily bombing daesh have gained control over more areas

All this have made me think-Are we fighting daesh or not or are we not doing it good enough ?

Markus
That's true. If ISIS controls an area as big as Great Britain, we will have a pretty hard time stopping them. But, in the end, I think NATO will come out on top. Or in Russia's case (not part of NATO) just Russia.

[mapuc]

That's true. If ISIS controls an area as big as Great Britain, we will have a pretty hard time stopping them. But, in the end, I think NATO will come out on top. Or in Russia's case (not part of NATO) just Russia.

Those who are really fighting daesh is the Kurds and some other groups(forgot the name of these)

Of course are we hitting things belonging to daesh, but it is the soldiers we have to get.

Markus

[Betonov]

Got to collect the buggers first.
Napalm and Thermobaric bombs might work, but you'd need to get all the entrances at the same time or it'll just draw air through the tunnel rather than sucking it all out.


Or, you can just, ya'know, storm in there and shoot them all. Considering they haven't ran away to escape the bullet ants and thermonaric bombs. :D

The best idea would be a ground attack and when they hide inside the tunnels just light up bonfires at entrances. Oxygen runs out and nothing else since they'd have to make a sortie trough fire.
Poetic justice, my ancestors lit bonfires to alert the population that the Turks are raiding :)

[Oberon]

Actually Daesh are on the retreat at the moment, the Syrian army Kuweires offensive has recaptured the airfield there which has been in Daesh hands for three years. Aleppo is still in the balance, but Daesh are not having the walkover they were hoping there, they haven't been able to close the pocket on the Syrian army yet. Taking the opportunity of having Daesh focused on Aleppo, the Syrian army launched an offensive to the south of Aleppo focusing on cutting the M5 motorway supply route into the city. The Iranians have done well with this, and so far they've cut pretty deeply into Daesh territory.

Meanwhile in Iraq, Kurdish forces have taken Sinjar from Daesh who captured it in August last year. Peshmerga forces have also repelled an infiltration attempt near the al-Kask region on Monday, and yesterday a Daesh offensive near Ramadi was repelled by the Anbar Operations Command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ISIL_related_events#November_2015

Daesh aren't having it all their own way, but because we're not having these massive breakthroughs and blitzkriegs that we in the western world are used to seeing, and also because we're not heavily involved on the ground (officially) it doesn't make the headlines so much.

[Betonov]

Too bad victories don't sell as much as fear.
Not a word on this in media.

[Dowly]

Which outcome would be the best for Syria and the fight against the Daesh? Rebels winning or Assad? :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Probably Assad, if the rebels win then they've got to put together a government and establish control over the various regions they now own. Whereas Assad already has a government and has powerful support from Russia and Iran. I'm no fan of Assad, I hate his use of chemical weaponry with a passion, and I think that if there was any justice in the world he and anyone else who has used chemical weapons should be strung up.
But...out of the various groups involved in this mess, he's probably the only one that would create a Syria that wouldn't immediately disintegrate again.

[ikalugin]

Kuweires offensive has recaptured the airfield there which has been in Daesh hands for three years.
You mean de blocading the airfield that was under siege by FSA for 3 years and then by ISIS for 1 year?

[Betonov]

The best would be that the rebels contact the Russians and give some terms of surrender that the Russians will force on Assad.
Full amnesty and such.

And then give Assad a crimean summer home, put some puppet that both sides won't have trouble with in Damascus and hope Assad chokes on a hedgehog.

[Dowly]

Probably Assad, if the rebels win then they've got to put together a government and establish control over the various regions they now own. Whereas Assad already has a government and has powerful support from Russia and Iran. I'm no fan of Assad, I hate his use of chemical weaponry with a passion, and I think that if there was any justice in the world he and anyone else who has used chemical weapons should be strung up.
But...out of the various groups involved in this mess, he's probably the only one that would create a Syria that wouldn't immediately disintegrate again.
Yeah, I agree with you. If I am not mistaken, there is not just one rebel group fighting against Assad, but multiple. Before the groups could figure out who gets what, it could take years of more civil war. :hmmm:

[Betonov]

And then there's this guy :o

http://i.imgur.com/luSDlNR.jpg

[mapuc]

The best would be that the rebels contact the Russians and give some terms of surrender that the Russians will force on Assad.
Full amnesty and such.

And then give Assad a crimean summer home, put some puppet that both sides won't have trouble with in Damascus and hope Assad chokes on a hedgehog.


You post made me remember an idea i had and forgot

My idea is a two-part way to peace

Part 1. We help Assad to win the war(the war-part)
Part 2. We use any possible diplomatically power to get Assad to resign and find a safehaven in e.g Iran or Russia and then let the people in Syria decide what they want by free election(the Peace-part)

Markus

[eddie]

Yeah, I agree with you. If I am not mistaken, there is not just one rebel group fighting against Assad, but multiple. Before the groups could figure out who gets what, it could take years of more civil war. :hmmm:

Just like Libya, exactly what's happening over there!

[mapuc]

A friends friend wrote this

have used google translate

"When our parents came to Europe, the so-called first-generation immigrants, in the 70 & 80's, they came because they were persecuted and tired of war, tired of religion fanaticism and / or limited freedom of religion or poverty. In short, they dreamed of better living conditions in the form of jobs, education, and especially SAFETY AND FREEDOM. Unfortunately, part of 2 and 3-generation immigrant, is about to throw it all overboard! Why ? Because there is blinkered black heart medieval dark men coming and telling young people how to live their lives according to the Koran and other sacred writings. They tell them that it's okay to use violence and terror to achieve their goals. They cause them to believe that there is 72 virgin just waiting on them in heaven! But it's not true . Dear 2 & 3 Generations immigrants wake up, speak out, don't let them manipulate you/us in this way. And in Allah or Mohammed's name we should not make our new country, to a country our parents fled from!


At some point we run out of countries to escape to! "

Markus

[Stealhead]

And then there's this guy :o

http://i.imgur.com/luSDlNR.jpg

Father of the Angel of Death.

He is a Shiite a member of an all Shiite militia in Iraq. He uses an M4 primarily though says that he was trained by Iranians also with Hezbollah. His own words seems like a nice guy I suppose. He fought aginst Americans and now is supported by them go figure. I am thinking this guy is 90% propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NAvTEQ9eXQ

Just watching that video you can see why things are so stalemated by and large neither side has any real discipline.

[Stealhead]

The next time you are having a bad day just think to yourself you could be this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Eqe5s1rmY

[Betonov]

He is a Shiite a member of an all Shiite militia in Iraq. He uses an M4 primarily though says that he was trained by Iranians also with Hezbollah. His own words seems like a nice guy I suppose. He fought aginst Americans and now is supported by them go figure. I am thinking this guy is 90% propaganda.



He was on the US most wanted list, so he can do some serious damage.

But yeah, som eof it seeems like tall tales, but never understimate the power of tall tales :)

[Skybird]

The series continues with the latest episode. Allahu-akhbar-shouters have stormed a hotel in Mali and took 170 guests as hostages. While writing this the BBC reports the storming of the hotel has begun.

[Jimbuna]

^Currently around 80 freed and at least 3 dead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34877069

[Oberon]

That's a pretty low death toll, all things considered. 170 hostages, 18 dead. Could have been a heckuva lot worse. Kudos to the forces on the ground for responding decisively.

CENTCOM put this out on twitter earlier:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CURVvLVUwAEgAte.png:large

[Oberon]

Also from out of Syria, a picture of an Iranian F14 escorting a Russian Tu-95 en-route to a cruise missile strike.

http://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/F-14-IRIAF-escort-Tu-95-top.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ascSnBbxfaU

[eddie]

Kuwait bust's a group of men supporting Daesh. They were trying to get Daesh some FN6 portable air defense systems!!:nope: Get them from the Ukraine and ship them through Turkey. Wonder if they got any of them through?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kuwait-says-it-busted-international-isil-support-cell/ar-BBndVhB

Qatar had shipped some of these systems to Syrian rebels back in 2013. They brought down a Mi-8 chopper with one. Being Chinese made, it is also reported that it isn't very reliable. The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times) has cited rebels that have complained the missile's performance, such as failings to fire or lock on and even two premature explosions while firing, which killed two rebels and wounded four more.

[Oberon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQ-OdqWcAA6Euf.jpg:large
*For Paris

[Betonov]

And the French seem to take a stern aproach even in diplomacy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/10/france-wont-dine-with-iran-unless-wine-is-served/?tid=sm_fb

Ahead of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani’s landmark European trip kicking off this weekend, French officials reportedly nixed plans for a formal meal in Paris with President François Hollande following a dispute over the menu. The Iranians, according to France’s RTL Radio, insisted on a wine-free meal with halal meat — a request based on Islamic codes that amounted to culinary sacrilege in France, a nation that puts the secular ideals of the Republic above all else.

:rotfl2:
it's not like they'll force the Iranians to drink that wine

[Stealhead]

Kuwait bust's a group of men supporting Daesh. They were trying to get Daesh some FN6 portable air defense systems!!:nope: Get them from the Ukraine and ship them through Turkey. Wonder if they got any of them through?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kuwait-says-it-busted-international-isil-support-cell/ar-BBndVhB

Qatar had shipped some of these systems to Syrian rebels back in 2013. They brought down a Mi-8 chopper with one. Being Chinese made, it is also reported that it isn't very reliable. The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times) has cited rebels that have complained the missile's performance, such as failings to fire or lock on and even two premature explosions while firing, which killed two rebels and wounded four more.


One wonders perhaps they wanted them to fail. The Chinese version of Eldest Son or the Quatari wanted them to fail.

[Oberon]

The Russkies pulled some impressive logistics over the past few days:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUSGeqCVAAAkCyl.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUUaFXsUwAACrR_.jpg:large

[mapuc]

Heard some days ago, the Vatican was mentioned as one of the targets daesh had made threats to wards

I try to imagine what would happen with the Catholics, other Christianities and the rest of the world, how will their response be ? IF daesh attacked the Vatican

Markus

[Betonov]

Most of the catholic people I know (including me) and even more of the Slovene people (predominately catholic) wiew Vatican as a lair of corruption and thieves and if a cardinal catches a bullet we'll say ''finally a fat bastard bought it and not a poor man''

But the culture and history of the vatican. Just one bullet hole in the Sistine chapel fresco deserves a nuke on Raqqa.

[Aktungbby]

I try to imagine what would happen with the Catholics, other Christianities and the rest of the world, how will their response be ? IF daesh attacked the Vatican

Markus On that moving occasion, Ali Agca knelt and kissed the Fisherman’s ring in a sign of respect; he did not ask for forgiveness. Instead, he said, “I know I was aiming right. I know that the bullet was a killer, So why aren’t you dead?”The Bulgarian secret service & KGB will send their top agents to handle that gig...possibly out of remorse for their (own)failed attempt!:doh:https://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/cr16pg07.jpg?w=700Even Daesh might think twice on this one... "AKBAR AL...uh just who are we messin' wid' now?!":hmmm: http://www.cruxnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/3c772357328c597b94146c491fc2cd0f-717x450.jpegThe Turkish gunman who shot and wounded John Paul II in 1981 laid white flowers Saturday on the saint’s tomb in St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican officials said. That's nice!:sunny:

[Oberon]

Anon has 'apparently' unearthed some...interesting information which indicate attacks tomorrow on:

WWE Survivors event - Atlanta
Demonstration by Collectif du droit des femmes (Paris)
Cigales Electroniques with Vocodecks, RE-Play & Rawtor at Le Bizen (Paris)
Concrete Invites Drumcode: Adam Beyer, Alan Fitzpatrick, Joel Mull at Concrete (Paris)
Feast of Christ the King celebrations (Rome/Worldwide)
Al-Jihad, One Day Juz (Indonesia)
Five Finger Death Punch (Milan)
University Pastoral Day (Holy Spirit University of Kaslik, Lebanon)

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/hacker-collective-anonymous-claims-isis-has-plans-for-more-attacks-on-sunday/

Believe that when I see it, if I'm honest.

[mapuc]

Anon has 'apparently' unearthed some...interesting information which indicate attacks tomorrow on:

WWE Survivors event - Atlanta
Demonstration by Collectif du droit des femmes (Paris)
Cigales Electroniques with Vocodecks, RE-Play & Rawtor at Le Bizen (Paris)
Concrete Invites Drumcode: Adam Beyer, Alan Fitzpatrick, Joel Mull at Concrete (Paris)
Feast of Christ the King celebrations (Rome/Worldwide)
Al-Jihad, One Day Juz (Indonesia)
Five Finger Death Punch (Milan)
University Pastoral Day (Holy Spirit University of Kaslik, Lebanon)

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/hacker-collective-anonymous-claims-isis-has-plans-for-more-attacks-on-sunday/

Believe that when I see it, if I'm honest.

have also read the anno have said daesh have planned to attack 6 or 8 American cities under the Thanksgiving.

Now the Internet is over flooded with rumours, as they always are after a terror attack

Markus

[MGR1]

Some food for thought (apologies if these have been posted before):

http://www.meforum.org/5478/are-muslims-fatalists

and

http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

The latter should give some insight as to why Arab militaries seem to make heavy weather of what should be simple tasks.

Mike.:hmmm:

[Stealhead]

If they blew up Five Finger Death Punch it would be a favor. They are the definition of crapy music.

[eddie]

Looks like trouble is brewing between Turkey and Russia. The Turks shot down a Russian Su-24, which they said has crossed over into their airspace.Russia says it can prove it was still over Syria. They have found one of the crewmen and are looking for the other.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-military-helicopters-search-for-pilots-of-downed-jet-turkeys-dogan-news-agency/ar-BBnnnBR

[Dmitry Markov]

We'll see by the evening - there's gonna be some official reaction by our government.