The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[Nippelspanner]

Oops. Didn't see that one in time.

I agree. I'm tired of this topic anyways (which is why I haven't attended in so long) and it leads nowhere anyways. I also hate fighting with you, believe it or not, since we - Islam aside - tend to share many opinions.
No need to delete anything from my pov, opinions where exchanged, no one's mother got insulted - I'm ok with that! :D

Tell you what Nippelspanner, let's just both walk away from this one, by all means reply to my post but let's just end it there, ok? I spent about an hour typing that, and I don't fancy deleting it (although I can if you want) and honestly...I think we both have better uses of our time than to spend it on here, doing this, achieving absolutely nothing.

So I concede. In regards to the off-topic discussions, if that's a big enough problem then Jim can shut this thread down, delete the off-topic stuff and then open it again (and put 'Islamic' in front of Terrorism if that makes things better).

[Bilge_Rat]

another barbarous attack by Radical Islamic terrorists.


Radical Islamic Terrorists masquerading as medics attack a Hospital in Kabul killing 30 and wounding another 50:


Militants armed with guns and grenades gained entry after one detonated explosives at a hospital gate and then opened fire on staff and patients.

Commandos who landed on the Sardar Daud hospital roof killed all four attackers after several hours of fighting.

The so-called Islamic State (IS) group has claimed the attack.

The attack began at 09:00 local time (04:30 GMT). One hospital staff member who was able to get out saw an attacker "wearing a white coat holding a Kalashnikov and opening fire on everyone, including the guards, patients and doctors".

One employee wrote on Facebook: "Attackers are inside the hospital. Pray for us."

TV pictures showed people hiding from the gunmen on ledges outside windows on upper floors of the building.

More than six hours after the attack began, interior ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi tweeted that special forces had ended their operation and all the attackers were dead.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39202525

[mapuc]

Well, then your mainstream newspaper is wrong, because Charlie Hebdo has carried on taking on everyone they see fit to do so even after the attacks. Heck, did you not even see the first issue of Charlie Hebdo after the attacks, it had Muhammad on the front cover! :har:

I find some of Charlie Hebdos graphics to be distasteful but that's how you do it, you don't let them win.

My first thought was. Could Oberon be right and that my memory is playing tricks with me. I made a search and found some old Danish article.

The one I'm using(translating from) is The Danish morning paper Politiken(the politics) the article is from 18 July 2015.

I have translated some of the article
"Charlie Hebdos Editor: We will no longer draw Mohammed.
The French satire magazine will not be perceived as particularly critical of Islam

The last last lines of the Prophet Muhammad is set. Six months after the deadly terrorist attack on the French satirical magazine's editorial offices in Paris, the blade will no longer draw the Muslim prophet Muhammad

We have been drawing Muhammad to defend the principle that anyone can draw whatever they want. It is strange that it is expected that we defend the freedom to express what they want, when no one else dare to do it, "said Laurent SOURISSEAU who publishes his drawings under the name Riss for Charlie Hebdo

Satire Cartoonist maintains that the magazine has the right to criticize all religions, but he does not want the magazine is seen as a magazine that is particularly critical of Islam.

The mistakes that one can accuse Islam of containing, one can also find in other religions, "said Laurent SOURISSEAU. "

The rest of the article was about the attack and why some survived(playing dead)



Edit: You were right about the first issue

This from the same article (translated)
"Back in April announced the magazine's cartoonist Renald Luzier that he would no longer draw Mohammed.

"It does not interest me anymore. I will not spend the rest of my life trying to draw Mohammed "told Renald Luzier, which accounts under the name Luz.

It was he who designed the first cover after the attack. The envisioned the weeping prophet Muhammad, who with a tear in your eye trusted readers "Je suis Charlie" (I am Charlie, ed.). A phrase that the attack was a kind of motto to support victims and spite against the perpetrators "

This was, if I understand it correctly the only and last time Islam/Muhammed was taken under Charlie Hebdo's satirical wings.


Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

yet another barbarous attack by Radical Islamic Terrorists, this time targeting a wedding. Most of the 26 dead are children:

Two suicide bombers have blown themselves up, killing 26 people, as wedding guests gathered in a village near the Iraqi city of Tikrit.

So-called Islamic State said two of its fighters had carried out the attack in the village of Hajaj on Wednesday.

The first detonated an explosive vest among men who were dancing, then a second bomber targeted those who had gathered to help, officials said. Most of the dead were children, a local government spokesman told AP.

(...)

At least 25 people were wounded.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39215496

[Schroeder]

Odd, they detonate a bomb among dancing men and then another among people who try to help and yet most of the fatalities are children?:doh:
Something doesn't add up here.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Odd, they detonate a bomb among dancing men and then another among people who try to help and yet most of the fatalities are children?:doh:
Something doesn't add up here.:hmmm:

Well there certainly isn't anything normal about this vermin.

[eddie]

Well there certainly isn't anything normal about this vermin.

You are right Jim, even with the Iraqi's eventually taking Mosul, this group of thugs will continue to do this type of thing. The US Military believes that Baghdadi himself is on the run and not in Mosul, that he is hiding among different Sunni villages, where there are people willing to help him. With mindsets like that, suicide bombings like this will continue. The hate between Sunni and Shia go back centuries, and its not ending any time soon.

[August]

Odd, they detonate a bomb among dancing men and then another among people who try to help and yet most of the fatalities are children?:doh:
Something doesn't add up here.:hmmm:

Wouldn't be the first time they staged civilian bodies at the site of a strike for propaganda purposes.

[mapuc]

Another terror ?

Several people have been wounded after a man armed with axe went on a rampage in Düsseldorf train station in Germany

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dusseldorf-attack-several-feared-wounded-after-man-wielding-axe-goes-on-rampage-in-german-railway-a3486031.html

Markus

[Oberon]

Looks that way. No idea who, but the suspect list won't be large.

[Skybird]

http://www.dw.com/en/ax-attack-at-d%C3%BCsseldorf-main-train-station/a-37877626

[ikalugin]

Isn't this the terriorism thread material?

[Oberon]

This...is the terrorism thread?

Apparently the chap they've arrested was from somewhere in the Balkans.

[ikalugin]

This...is the terrorism thread?

Apparently the chap they've arrested was from somewhere in the Balkans.
I am pretty sure that originally it was in GER thread.

[Oberon]

I am pretty sure that originally it was in GER thread.

Ah, could have been, and been moved.

Admin moves in mysterious ways. :03:

[mapuc]

I'll use this thread-´cause I really don't know where to post my comments

For month I have been wondering about the relation between Russia and Turkey, I have been thinking of write about it here in Subsim and maybe this thread. I knew that a majority of you would disagree with me.

Until this afternoon, where I heard an expert/an analyst talking about the lastest meeting between Erdogan and Putin

"Turkey is on the fast track to leave NATO"

When I heard these words I thought-Then my thoughts was that much wrong.

It also makes clear why Europe and USA is treating Turkey as spoiled child in many way-They will do anything to prevent this from happening.

Some more thoughts

What will happen with all the NATO stuff in Turkey if this happens
What about the Geopolitical situation in the Mediterranean if Russia is allowed to build and place a fleet at some Turkish harbour(thinking if Russia would move their Black sea fleet to this new location ?)

Markus

[ikalugin]

In pure military sense Turkish Navy would make a bigger local difference than the Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet.

[mapuc]

In pure military sense Turkish Navy would make a bigger local difference than the Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet.

I really don't know which fleet is biggest I was more thinking in a geopolitical and strategic way

As I know-Mediterranean is almost NATO's own bath tube and Russia have to fight its way through (forgot the name) or take the long way from Murmansk to enter the Mediterranean

If Turkey leave NATO and joined some alliance with Russia and give them permission to place one of their fleets at some harbour that give them directly access to the Mediterranean

So much do I know-if that happens the geopolitical and the strategic situation in the Mediterranean will change.

Markus

[ikalugin]

I think you misunderstand the treaties.

USSR (and it's successor states - ie Russia) had (and we still have) free passage through the straits into the Mediteranian region unless Turkey is at war. In the past Turkey never closed the straits to us.
On the other hand out of region states - for example USA are limited in the presense they can have in the Black Sea region.

This implies that the advantages we would gain from Turkey leaving NATO (and entering into some kind of bilatteral relashionship with Russia) would come in the form of eased logistics (with the forward supply bases) and changed correlation of forces and means (should Turkey enter an alliance with Russia that alliance would completely dominate the Black Sea region and would exsert considerable influence into the eastern Mediteranian due to the added strength of Turkish Navy).

[mapuc]

I think you misunderstand the treaties.

USSR (and it's successor states - ie Russia) had (and we still have) free passage through the straits into the Mediteranian region unless Turkey is at war. In the past Turkey never closed the straits to us.
On the other hand out of region states - for example USA are limited in the presense they can have in the Black Sea region.

This implies that the advantages we would gain from Turkey leaving NATO (and entering into some kind of bilatteral relashionship with Russia) would come in the form of eased logistics (with the forward supply bases) and changed correlation of forces and means (should Turkey enter an alliance with Russia that alliance would completely dominate the Black Sea region and would exsert considerable influence into the eastern Mediteranian due to the added strength of Turkish Navy).

Thank you for explaining it for me.

It wouldn't make any difference from how it is now and if Russia and Turkey joined forces, if I understand it correctly

Markus

[ikalugin]

Thank you for explaining it for me.

It wouldn't make any difference from how it is now and if Russia and Turkey joined forces, if I understand it correctly

Markus
Well there would be difference - we would get better logistics, better position in both Black Sea and Mediteranian due to the support from the Turkish forces.

Amusingly Black Sea for a long time has been considered by the Western experts to be the vulnerable underbelly of Russia while it turns out to be a strong Bastion of sorts.

[Skybird]

German shopping mall evacuated and shut down after threats of an incoming terror attack. German media report that order for the attack should have come from IS.

http://www.dw.com/en/two-arrested-after-germany-shuts-down-shopping-mall-over-fears-of-terrorist-attack/a-37906145

A planned multiple suicide bombing. Two arrests so far. The Great Deceiver is said to be fuming.

Just 2 1/2 weeks ago another Salafist wannabe-massmurderer was arrested in Lower Saxony over charges of planning an attack.

[Schroeder]

Of course the suspects where Buddhist monks.....So this has nothing to do with Islam.:salute:

On a serious note it always amazes me how our security forces actually get most of these oxygen thieves before they can carry out their attacks. :up:

[Oberon]

How's that Muslim axe guy from Dusseldorf doing?

[Skybird]

How's that Muslim axe guy from Dusseldorf doing?

Police says that is a man with psychic problems who ticked out due to a stressful situation he could not bear. No word on his ID, but terror background was ruled out. Whether "psychic problems" now means he is a white German schizophrenic patient, or just some Northafrican proud male who could not stand to not be treated like a king by unthankful Germans not knowing how formidable he is, I do not know.

We have enormous problems over here with Eritreans and Ethopians, police says when the mikes are switched off. They are hyper-aggressive, hyper-sensible, extremely hostile to female officers and absolutly rejecting any form of authority confronting them. Many are fraudster abusing the German asylum system and milking cash from it by running up to two dozen indentities, cashing wellfare for each of them. Which shows to what degree German authorities really are masters of this asylum process.

My favourite story is that of this fare dodger from Eritrea who was found to have been confronted by the law 189 times before, masturbated before train passengers repeatedly, maintained I think 19 identities, cashed for each of them - and every court and judge again and again said he should not be kicked out and should not be jailed. And every time he was arrested by police he turned violent.

No, we certainly are no bad evil Nazis anymore, really - believe it, World, will you. Angels pale in envy when seeing our servile patience.

[mapuc]

About Turkey and Erdogan

What is Erdogan doing or should I say thinking ?

After having read and heard todays news about the crisis between Turkey and Holland.

An election in a country can never be exported to other countries, not even if millions of its citizens live on these country-An election is a to-be-hold-inside-the-border-thing. Turkey has the right to send a vote-thing to a Turkish citizens in another country, if this person want this.

But it's not going to happen due to two thing

1. The ongoing immigration and refugee crisis
2. The fear of Turkey leaving NATO (and join forces with Russia)

Markus

[Oberon]

What is Erdogan thinking ?



http://img.memecdn.com/when-people-tell-me-the-ottoman-empire-wasn-amp-039-t-big_o_4402701.jpg

[Rockstar]

I got a feeling Erdogan's thinking is to get votes for himself and if immigrants want to vote by absentee ballot its fine with me, they can read the papers like everyone else and make their own decisions. However for Erdogan wanting to send political officials and hold rallies in someone elses land? That I think has more to do with establishing a cohesive political power base of immigrants (of which Europe now have a multitude of) in a foreign country not so much to vote in and influence Turkish elections but to vote and influence German and *Holland's elections.

Of course Germans and *Holland's governments got called nazis when they told Erdogan to pack sand and banned these political rallies. I know some here probably agree with Erdogans comments when he reffered to them as nazis becuase of this gross intolerence. But I say good for the Dutch and Germans they should get rid of the freeloaders because Ive said it before they are not at all interested being Germans, Dutch or whatever.

[mapuc]

I got a feeling Erdogan's thinking is get votes for himself which if immigrants want to vote by absentee ballot is fine with me, they can read the papars like everyone else and make their own decsions. However for Erdogan wanting to send political officials and hold rallies in someone elses land? That I think has more to with establishing a cohesive political power base of immigrants (of which you now have a multitude of) in a foreign country not so much to vote in and influence Turkish elections but to vote and influence German and Danish elections.

Of course Germans and Danish governments got called nazis when they told Erdogan to pack sand and banned these political rallies. I know some here probably agree with Erdogans comments calling Germans and Danes nazis for being so intolerant. But I say good get rid of the freeloaders because Ive said it before they are not at all interested being Germans, Danes or whatever.

It's the politicians in Germany and Holland(The Netherland) Turkey are calling Nazist .

And the crisis between Holland and Turkey have the latest hours has gone from bad to worse

First Holland closed their airport to Turkish Minister(she is a Minister for families or something) then this Turkish Minister toke her own car and have been stopped by Dutch police and have been told to leave the country(leave Holland)

Markus

[Oberon]

Well, that's Wilders for Dutch leader sorted then.

[Schroeder]

http://img.memecdn.com/when-people-tell-me-the-ottoman-empire-wasn-amp-039-t-big_o_4402701.jpg
They forgot Germany in the green area. We're just a Turkish province nowadays that has to behave when the Sultan demands it.:yeah:

[Oberon]

They forgot Germany in the green area. We're just a Turkish province nowadays that has to behave when the Sultan demands it.:yeah:

Nah, they just don't really care about Germany.

[Rockstar]

Denmark, Holland, Netherlands all the same ;).

sorry

[Oberon]

It's all Donald Ducked anyway. :yeah:

[Nippelspanner]

Nah, they just don't really care about Germany.
Oh but they do.
They love reaping the benefits Germany has to offer, yet for the most part refuse to integrate - like many other people from different cultures seem to do without problems mostly.
Worse, instead of integrating and accepting how things are, they are bold as hell and try to change detail for detail about Germany, be it culture, traditions, politics, religion etc.

I'd never dare to do that when moving to another country. Except of course I was raised inside an ideology that is used to conquer things. ;)

So I'd be careful to claim turks don't care about Germany. For a minority, they do try to enforce rather wild demands while "not caring".

[Oberon]

I meant the government, rather than the people, but yeah, why not.

[Skybird]

Netherlands and Turkey? You guys have not noted the rows and dramas between Erdoghanistan and Germany in the past weeks. The sh!t has hit the fan - its just that Germany, different to the Austrians and the Dutch, does not dare to confront the Turks, and so we swallow every defamation and offence and lie and provokation and whatever is flying at our direction.

Oh, and Merkel said that she "feels sad" over how things are going. Oh dear, Merkel feels sad. History books will fill volumes with the sadness of Merkel, its a world-moving event: Merkel's sadness. Keep in on mind, store it in your memory. Your children and children's children will learn about it. "Merkel was sad." Wowh, that I could live to witness this - its so moving, I am deeply touched.

It is not known whether or not the Turkish regime has shed a single tear about Merkel's sadness. They need more time probably.

The german behavior and endless servility is absolutely disgusting and despicable.

The German foul excuses are an offence to ourselves. Despicable. No spine, no honour, no self-respect, nothing, a total fail.

I think us Germans got ourselves what we deserve. If you wallow yourself in the dirt of self-hate and self-denial, do not be surprised if somebody not known for these character traits, acts by his much less subtle self-perception and simply kicks you over and over again while you lay in the dust. And if you drop pants and bend over whenever you get confronted, and all you have to say is that you "feel sad" and are "concerned", don't complain if you get banged and then demanded to say Thankyou for it.

Einfach ekelhaft, the attitude and posture of the German government. Of course, Merkel has dramatically increased Germany's vulnerability to Turkish blackmailings. One mistake leads to the next, and the next and the next...

Two weeks ago Merkel admitted that she made a big mistake with the mass migration she channeled to Germany. And at the same speech she refused to stop deepening this mistake and repeating it over and over again, and demanded that Germans should follow her in her effort to deepen her just admitted mistake even more. And in the end, she said, the mistake was not her policy, but that she misjudged the willingness of the other Europeans, implying that it is their bad will that makes the German policy a self-damaging failure. You see, her mistake in the end is n mistake, but she was made to make this mistake by the others, so to speak.

One cannot be any more disconnected from reality.

Pfui.

[ikalugin]

You should really try the sensible realist approach when dealing with Erdogan. It got us from a near war situation to being best buddies in a few months.

For examply try:
- cutting off his funding.
- banning tourism.
- wrapping all non kurdish refugees in some nice gift paper and deporting them back to Turkey if they travelled via Turkey.

[Skybird]

Instead we followed Turkish demands and banned displays of PKK-leader Öcalan'S portrait (followed by even more Turkish demands to fight against the PKK), we accept that Turkish intel has established a network of spies, agents and informants in Germany that is tighter and bigger than that of the Stasi at the height of the cold war, we refuse to cancel the treaties with DITIB although we know by now that they spread Erdoghan's propaganda, call for racism-founded hate and denial of integration, and we are extremely shy and "diplomatic" to not provoke them any more, with 30-40 more visits and speeches of Turkish government members planned in Germany. German press calls the Dutch position a mistake and that the Dutch stepped into a trap, and Austria and Switzerland not allowing Turkish ministers in in the past was called by German government members a big mistake. We could crush the Turkish economy in short time, that massive is the superiority Germany's fiscal influence - Turkey hangs on our drip-feed, without German money flowing into the Turkish industry, the Turkish economy would go into a crash dive. But demand a modern german to act strongly! No, no, that is a no go. Instead, we feel sad that the other is so unfriendly to us.

[Nippelspanner]

For examply try:
- banning tourism.
- wrapping all non kurdish refugees in some nice gift paper and deporting them back to Turkey if they travelled via Turkey.

We can't do this. Unlike you, we live in a (more believable) democracy and try to uphold basic human rights instead of trying ways around them to play tsar.

How could one ban tourism?
People are free to go where they want.

[Skybird]

I think he did not mean a state decree forbidding Germans to travel to Turkey, but that germans simply should decide against Turkey, and stay in Germany or move to Spain or whereever else for their summer vacation . Which many obviously already do. Personally - I would also like to see a warning by the Außenministerium against travelling to Turkey, and the govenrment recommending private business to no longer raise additional business contacts and investements in Turkey, but to prepare to bail out there. Turkey is lost ground for the West - if it ever was different. The government should also rethink this stupid law that makes it mandatory for the government to intervene and help if people get into troubles with other countries authorities when there was a formal warning to travel to these countries. That Germany must accept that it could be blackmailed becasue some stupid tourist decided to act stupid in choosing a country as a destination where he better should not have gone, is a no go for me. Like insurrances do not necessarily need to pay if you intentionally caused the harm yourself. I did not like Turkey already 20 years ago. Why people voluntarily move to it for vacation, is beyond me.

The whole region I would not travel to anymore today. And practically all contracts I had back then I would not sign again today. I was so stupid back then. But the money was real, and much - or so it seemed to me at that age.

[MaDef]

How could one ban tourism?
People are free to go where they want. Are you kidding? Governments issue travel bans all the time. It's been Illegal for U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba for 40 years. It's also illegal to travel to Syria, and Somalia. (hence the reason those Americans end up there via circuitous routes through Europe)

[Skybird]

Are you kidding? Governments issue travel bans all the time. It's been Illegal for U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba for 40 years. It's also illegal to travel to Syria, and Somalia. (hence the reason those Americans end up there via circuitous routes through Europe)
I think we do not have such bans in Germany. But I may be proven wrong. I just don'T know that such bans have been ordered.

What has been tried was to release a law that could ban German politicians to travel to countries declared to be no-go zones. Also a law to collect ID papers of declared extremist people (terrorism tourists) was mulled or is in effect, I do not know right now. One wanted to interruted the supply with willing terror fighters for the IS that way.

However, these laws were not about banning the whole population in general to reach any foreign state as a travel destination.

Quite surprising that these laws exist in America and ban the whole population. Would expect this in more totalitarian regimes, not in the US. I also have no sympathy for such laws. I only want that the state is freed from any obligation to help put people if they manage to bring themselves into troubles when the foreign minstry has warned people to go somewhere.

[ikalugin]

We can't do this. Unlike you, we live in a (more believable) democracy and try to uphold basic human rights instead of trying ways around them to play tsar.

How could one ban tourism?
People are free to go where they want.
You are not violating anything, you shouldn't really attack me or my country right from the bat. Let me expand on the two points you selected.

You cannot ban people from travelling to a country as this denies them the right to free movement, however you can make such travel harder. For example you can impose sanctions on the turkish financial and tourism sector companies (and sector wide sanctions are acceptable means in EU it appears), you can ban charter flights to Turkey (but retain regular flights), etc.

Regarding "refugees" - if they come via Turkey from 3rd party states and if we assume that Turkey is a safe country for them (it is not for the Kurds, nor do the Turkish Kurds come from 3rd party states hence why I singled them out) then they are not indeed legitimate refugees (that have to settle in the first safe country they get into) but rather migrants. It is not a human right to improve one's well being at another's expense without consent (and illegal migrants do not ask for consent in the form of say visas).

[Schroeder]

Are you kidding?
Not in Germany. No one here can tell you not to travel to a certain country unless you show inclination to support an enemy (Muslim extremists get their passports revoked to prevent them from joining DEASH for example). If you're not on those "black lists" however you can go wherever you please and I'm not aware the German government would even have the legal power to ban all people from going to some country.

[Rockstar]

Are you kidding? Governments issue travel bans all the time. It's been Illegal for U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba for 40 years. It's also illegal to travel to Syria, and Somalia. (hence the reason those Americans end up there via circuitous routes through Europe)

It was never illegal to travel to Cuba you just couldn't spend your U.S. dollars there and its certainly not illegal to travel to the Middle East either as there are many U.S. citizens fighting for the legitimate goverment of Syria. The worst that will happen is if you find yourself in trouble dont expect any help in a place the goverment said not to go.

One time we stopped a U.S. sailboat that had left Havana. Had one person onboard, a college aged student, one those kind today we would call a snowflake. We were professioanl, did our job, inspected his boat and about to leave. He showed us his Che Guevara t-shirts and all these other things he had bought in Cuba. We asked how many U.S. dollars he spent. He told us about $150.00 US. we told him that was illegal and called ahead and had Customs waiting for him at the dock. Those were the days when we siezed just about everything so Im sure the kid probably lost his boat.

[Skybird]

You cannot ban people from travelling to a country as this denies them the right to free movement, however you can make such travel harder. Just to be precise: the owner(s) of a given piece of land, the people living on that land or in that land and claiming it their home, having established cultures and communties there, have every natural right there can be to deny foreigners access to it, so destination countries of travellers can very well claim the right to deny foreigners entry.

Therefore there cannot be any general right for unlimited periods of asylum. It would be a violation of a most basic human right: the right to own private property that is yours, and nobody else's.

This also means there cannot be a general right of soembody to travel just everywhere where he wants. He can ask for permission to pass through. He even can ask for permission to stay. But he has no right at all to demand that the answer to his request must be positive. If those owning and living a land say No, he has to leave, or stay out in the first. No matter what.

There cannot be an unlimited right for free movement without violating other people's human rights that are prior-ranking.

The starting country of a traveller banning its citizens from travelling somewhere - that is not acceptable, and in principle already an imprisonment of own population. Its what the GDR has done, and what North Korea does today.

Same with states preventing citizens from giving up their citizenship and taking anoher state's nationality. Great Britain did not allow that for example until relatively late into last century, I read, I forgot the exact date when it was finally allowed, I think some time in the 70s. Until then, "Once a Briton - always a Briton" was the parole of a man's life. Or better: "Always a subject of the Queen."

[Nippelspanner]

Are you kidding? Governments issue travel bans all the time. It's been Illegal for U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba for 40 years. It's also illegal to travel to Syria, and Somalia. (hence the reason those Americans end up there via circuitous routes through Europe)

Well, I hope you're wrong, because how 'free' are Americans if they can't even go wherever they want. :P

Ah, the irony..

[MaDef]

It was never illegal to travel to Cuba you just couldn't spend your U.S. dollars there and its certainly not illegal to travel to the Middle East either as there are many U.S. citizens fighting for the legitimate goverment of Syria. The worst that will happen is if you find yourself in trouble dont expect any help in a place the goverment said not to go.

One time we stopped a U.S. sailboat that had left Havana. Had one person onboard, a college aged student, one those kind today we would call a snowflake. We were professioanl, did our job, inspected his boat and about to leave. He showed us his Che Guevara t-shirts and all these other things he had bought in Cuba. We asked how many U.S. dollars he spent. He told us about $150.00 US. we told him that was illegal and called ahead and had Customs waiting for him at the dock. Those were the days when we siezed just about everything so Im sure the kid probably lost his boat.Maybe i should have been more specific? While technically, travel isn't Illegal to Cuba, you need specific permission from the Treasury department to go.

Let's make it simple, as a passport holder I can travel to most countries, needing only The host country's permission (via treaty or Visa). In places like Cuba, I also need the U.S governments permission.

[Rockstar]

No doubt our governement tried to make travel to Cuba not worth your time. They even suceeded in scaring a lot of citizens into thinking they actually needed its permission. But the reality is nobody was or is currently required to get our governments permission to travel anywhere in this world. What I think Treasury was attempting back then was a way to enforce the sanctions meant to keep U.S. dollars out of Cuba.

You could travel Cuba, but you couldnt spend your U.S. dollars there, you couldnt even exchange it for Canadian dollars to spend there. And even if you didnt spend a dime there you would certainly have been read the riot act upon your return and inspected by Customs, Treasury, and Coast Guard and we would have found something to make your life as miserable as possible :)

[Nippelspanner]

You could travel Cuba, but you couldnt spend your U.S. dollars there, you couldnt even exchange it for Canadian dollars to spend there. And even if you didnt spend a dime there you would certainly have been read the riot act upon your return and inspected by Customs, Treasury, and Coast Guard and we would have found something to make your life as miserable as possible :)

I shall save this part for the countless times subsim's resident patriot(s) lecture us europoors about freedom.
This is gold. Lol.

If I want to spend whatever currency in whatever part of the world Merkel would just shrug. Then again that's pretty much all she does anyways, Nevermind.

[Rockstar]

Meh it wasn't that bad. I mean take that one college kid whose sailboat we boarded. We knew full well he had been to Cuba and we couldn't really care less as there was no law against it.
It wasnt until he opened his big mouth and shot himself in the foot that we took note of his souvenirs. Even then all we did was call Customs. And to be honest I really dont know what happened to him and his boat once he made landfall. Could be Customs didnt bother to show up or he was just issued a citation, he could have had his souvenirs seized and if he excelled at being a wiseass I suppose he could have had his boat seized and been thrown in jail. Lol

[August]

I shall save this part for the countless times subsim's resident patriot(s) lecture us europoors about freedom.
This is gold. Lol.

Fools gold, he's talking about the 1960's.

[MaDef]

Fools gold, he's talking about the 1960's. according to the state department those requirements are still in place.

[August]

according to the state department those requirements are still in place.

Really? Because any such rule would be unenforceable. The seller is the only one who decides if they'll accept US dollars or not.

I know people who have been to Cuba. They couldn't fly directly there but no problem via Canada and no problems coming back through US customs either.

[Nippelspanner]

Fools gold, he's talking about the 1960's.

according to the state department those requirements are still in place.

Who would have thought pure gold suddenly turns into diamonds...

Well August, I guess that's what happens when you bolt to your holy countries defense, blinded by the usual nationalism preventing you to see straight.
Jee, someone pointed out the best and most awesome and free country in the world that holds all rights on freedom, no that basically invented freedom, is... Not more or less free than any other Western nation, or even lacking here and there?
To arms, fellow patriots!

Anyways...
Can Americans Travel to Cuba?
If you’re wondering whether Americans can travel to Cuba, the answer is yes but not without a host of restrictions. Since the relationship between the U.S. and Cuba was restored in December 2014, Americans have been able to travel to Cuba under 12 categories of authorized trips. The Obama administration recently loosened sanctions, allowing Americans to travel to the country independently, as long as they complete a form declaring the visit an educational journey.

Cuba tourism is still technically outlawed, so if you want to book solo travel opting for an educational visit, you’ll need to plan a people-to-people trip, where you meet Cuban citizens in normal daily life settings, such as schools and community centers. Previously, Americans visiting for educational purposes were required to have a fully booked cultural itinerary, which meant booking a trip with a tour company, which could come with an average weekly price tag of $2,000 to $3,500 per person.
(Huffpost)

Oh and:
Travel purely for tourism will remain illegal until Congress lifts its ban on the island.
(Guardian)


I don't know, but I really wouldn't connect nonsense like this with freedom.
How free are you if you, officially can't even spend your holidays wherever, just because your government says so?
Remember your catchy "chains of oppression" phrase, August? Unlike your example (you claimed I can't own guns, which is nonsense), mine is at least true.

You may return to your star spangled cave now until the next time, when America needs you! *salute*


PS: please note how it was the evil oburmuh administration giving you, a little bit, of freedom back.
Probably only to make you feel safe before the Kenian shock troops move out to establish Obamas dictatorship.... Oh wait!

[ikalugin]

http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001201703130012?index=0&rangeSize=1

Some news - South Osetian Armed Forces are to be partially integrated into Russian Armed Forces via transfer of personel from select South Osetian units into Russian units in the region. This applies only to personel with dual (Russian and South Osetian) personel, residing permanently in South Osetia.

Context - Russia recognises the break-away region of South Osetia as an independent state and has a number of interstate agreements with it regarding common security.

[August]

Who would have thought pure gold suddenly turns into diamonds...

Well August, I guess that's what happens when you bolt to your holy countries defense, blinded by the usual nationalism preventing you to see straight.
Jee, someone pointed out the best and most awesome and free country in the world that holds all rights on freedom, no that basically invented freedom, is... Not more or less free than any other Western nation, or even lacking here and there?
To arms, fellow patriots!

Anyways...

(Huffpost)

Oh and:

(Guardian)


I don't know, but I really wouldn't connect nonsense like this with freedom.
How free are you if you, officially can't even spend your holidays wherever, just because your government says so?
Remember your catchy "chains of oppression" phrase, August? Unlike your example (you claimed I can't own guns, which is nonsense), mine is at least true.

You may return to your star spangled cave now until the next time, when America needs you! *salute*


PS: please note how it was the evil oburmuh administration giving you, a little bit, of freedom back.
Probably only to make you feel safe before the Kenian shock troops move out to establish Obamas dictatorship.... Oh wait!

Wow Nipple, star spangled cave, really? Do you feel a little better now that you've ejaculated all that bile? I mean as better as could be expected given that you have to dredge up some old cold war era laws as your big gotcha moment.

[Nippelspanner]

Of course I feel better now, why wouldn't I feel better after, once more, calling you out on your usual bs, August?

It is you who immediately seeks confrontation as soon as one of us europoors criticizes America in literally any way, you immediately jump in and blindly defend it, just like you did now, and it speaks volumes that you even do it while not being informed at all. "Cold war laws" my behind, they are still viable.


You are the first one to blubber about laws, amendments, your constitution and how these damn liburuls violate them with a mighty big mouth, now suddenly you wanna downplay a valid law of your country?
Pure hypocrisy.

Oh, speaking of hypocrisy.
It's cute how you try to act all butt hurt about "star spangled cave" when it is, again, you who constantly says the most despicable things, no matter the context.
You know, like looking down on infantry soldiers because "they're just legs" and not super elite airborne warrior machines, or how you love to bash Europeans for living in chains of oppression (when they don't?) or how you still don't understand that subsim is an international board where everyone can join any debate and isn't automatically excluded from us American topics because he's not a part of the American master race.

So tread carefully and try to live with people calling you out from time to time. If it annoys you, you can stop acting like an indoctrinated cold war Era nationalist who spreads nonsense so often anytime and maybe, just maybe, you're safe from analogies like the above.

You've chosen that shoe for yourself, August.
But as usual, it is everyone else's fault...

[August]

So this was all just another personal attack on me then Nipple? I must be so far into your head that I have multiple residences. :up:

Just remember that you can whine and get mad all you want. Nothing is going to change.

[Nippelspanner]

So this was all just another personal attack on me then Nipple? I must be so far into your head that I have multiple residences. :up:

Just remember that you can whine and get mad all you want. Nothing is going to change.

Another nice try, but it won't work.
I called you out based on the 'content' you post. So you can "whine and get mad all you want" but no moderator will protect your sorry behind from yourself.

My point is also not to change anything, why would it be. My point rather is rectification.

[ikalugin]

http://www.interfax.ru/russia/515451
This year we expect to receive "several" Podsolnuh short range beyound horizon radars, one of which would be deployed in the Arctic. Currently 3 such stations are operational - in the Caspian, Okhotsk and Japanese seas regions.

This surface wave radar can detect aircraft at the ranges of up to 500km and ships at the ranges of up to 400km, improving the security of our bases by allowing various weapons systems to be employed against targets beyond the horizon. Podsolnuh radar sets compliment the long range beoyond horizon radar sets - Container series, with currently 2 in operation (one in the Europaean Russia and the other in the Far East).

[August]

Another nice try, but it won't work.
I called you out based on the 'content' you post. So you can "whine and get mad all you want" but no moderator will protect your sorry behind from yourself.

My point is also not to change anything, why would it be. My point rather is rectification.

"Call me out? "Sorry behind"? You're really trolling hard today Nipple. What's with all the personal insults lately?

[Rockstar]

Of course I feel better now, why wouldn't I feel better after, once more, calling you out on your usual bs, August?

It is you who immediately seeks confrontation as soon as one of us europoors criticizes America in literally any way, you immediately jump in and blindly defend it, just like you did now, and it speaks volumes that you even do it while not being informed at all. "Cold war laws" my behind, they are still viable.


You are the first one to blubber about laws, amendments, your constitution and how these damn liburuls violate them with a mighty big mouth, now suddenly you wanna downplay a valid law of your country?
Pure hypocrisy.

Oh, speaking of hypocrisy.
It's cute how you try to act all butt hurt about "star spangled cave" when it is, again, you who constantly says the most despicable things, no matter the context.
You know, like looking down on infantry soldiers because "they're just legs" and not super elite airborne warrior machines, or how you love to bash Europeans for living in chains of oppression (when they don't?) or how you still don't understand that subsim is an international board where everyone can join any debate and isn't automatically excluded from us American topics because he's not a part of the American master race.

So tread carefully and try to live with people calling you out from time to time. If it annoys you, you can stop acting like an indoctrinated cold war Era nationalist who spreads nonsense so often anytime and maybe, just maybe, you're safe from analogies like the above.

You've chosen that shoe for yourself, August.
But as usual, it is everyone else's fault...


It is a Cold War law/embargo and in 1961 it was the thing to do when Castro nationalized U.S. properties and interests and entertained the idea of nuclear weapons on his island. I was born in 60's and the thought of traveling to Cuba has never entered my mind and neither have I ever felt as though my freedom to do so was trampled upon. The embargo never once bothered me because it wasnt imposed upon me for something I did, it was imposed upon Castro because of what Castro did. And having been involved over the years in the Mariel boat lifts, rescuing whole families on rafts and picking 100's of dead cubans, out of the ocean who were forced by their own government to leave and risked everything they had to get to the United States a.k.a. the land of the free, Ive seen suffering. Think about for a moment people hopped on anything that would float using their hands in desperation they paddled out to sea to escape that place. Hoping the currents would take them in the right direction and hoping again someone would see them before they died of thirst, starvation, exposure or shark attack. At the same time the more advanced free society of European tourists with drinks in hand are enjoying their freedom on some sunny beach in Havana turning a blind eye while people are risking their lives to flee that island. F-Cuba I can honestly say I still could care less about going there and and hope it sinks.

They say its "better in the Bahamas" anyway.

[August]

It is a Cold War law/embargo and in 1961 it was the thing to do when Castro nationalized U.S. properties and interests and entertained the idea of nuclear weapons on his island. I was born in 60's and the thought of traveling to Cuba has never entered my mind and neither have I ever felt as though my freedom to do so was ever trampled upon. The embargo never once bothered me because it wasnt imposed upon me or for something I did, it was imposed upon Castro because of what Castro did. And having been involved over the years in the Mariel boat lifts, rescuing whole families on rafts and picking 100's of dead cubans, out of the ocean who were forced by their own government to leave and risked everything they had to get to the United States a.k.a. the land of the free. I can honestly say I still could care less about going to Cuba and and hope it sinks.

They say its "better in the Bahamas" anyway.

Oh but Rockstar. Nipples whole reason for living is to put us Americans in our place. Saying that you don't care will only infuriate him.

[Bilge_Rat]

I have been to Cuba twice, beautiful beaches, friendly people and great unspoiled scuba diving.

I was kind of hoping the embargo would last longer to keep U.S. tourists out, but I have a U.S. friend who went diving there over Xmas and is now spreading the word. :wah:

They also have the best Mojitos in the world. :up:

[Nippelspanner]

It is a Cold War law/embargo
No, it was created back then, but is still valid today (at least what I was talking about).
It could be from 10000bc, law is law - is it not?
And that was the whole point.

Oh but Rockstar. Nipples whole reason for living is to put us Americans in our place. Saying that you don't care will only infuriate him.
Err, yes, you... got it. I only inhale oxygen to stay alive to hate America, because reasons, or something like that.
The funny thing is, I didn't even criticize the US, I criticized what you've said and your hypocrisy.
Boy, it doesn't get more stupid from this point, really.

[Rockstar]

No, it was created back then, but is still valid today (at least what I was talking about).
It could be from 10000bc, law is law - is it not?
And that was the whole point.

The point is the embargo was set in place during the height of the cold war during the Eisenhower presidency and yes it is still in place, no arguement there. I am also well aware of the darker side to that island, a side which up until Obama opened an emabassy there caused multitudes of individuals and families to risk everything they had including their lives to flee. Now? they're stuck there. To those europeans, canadians and few americans having a good time while others were giving everything up to leave that island, ignorance must truly be bliss. If I saw anyone of those hypocrites in distress I would do what they did look the other way finish up my drink, hit the beach and hang out with the kewl people. Heck I might even take in a little scuba diving too.

[Bilge_Rat]

I know many people who have visited China and Vietnam, both also nominally communist dictatorship.

If you are doing business with communist China and communist Vietnam, there is no reason to refuse to do business with communist Cuba.

From what I saw, there is less poverty and crime in Cuba than in "free" Haiti and the Dominican Republic, both of which I have also visited.

[Nippelspanner]

To those europeans, canadians and few americans having a good time while others were giving everything up to leave that island, ignorance must truly be bliss.
And this is coming from you? Really?

Also, bash these evil tourists all you like.
When you're done, think about how much the Cubans benefit from them and how their situation would, or would have been any better with no tourism at all.

You're right though. Ignorance is bliss.

[MaDef]

How about we just recognize that all countries irregardless of size, location or form of government exercises some sort of control over peoples movements through their borders And leave it at that.

[Nippelspanner]

How about we just recognize that all countries irregardless of size, location or form of government exercises some sort of control over peoples movements through their borders And leave it at that.

But they don't.
I can fly to Cuba, or Syria if I want. Heck I could visit NK if I'd fancy to-do so, my country won't stop me.

[August]

But they don't.
I can fly to Cuba, or Syria if I want. Heck I could visit NK if I'd fancy to-do so, my country won't stop me.

Neither will our country stop us from visiting those places as both myself and now BR have stated but don't let that stop your hate fest. There must be some other 60 year old laws on our books for you to try and feel superior over.

[Rockstar]

And this is coming from you? Really?

Also, bash these evil tourists all you like.
When you're done, think about how much the Cubans benefit from them and how their situation would, or would have been any better with no tourism at all.

You're right though. Ignorance is bliss.

Bash them? Uh uh just pointing the other side of the hypocrisy you accuse us of. As far as who benifitted IMO it is the only ones left on the island namely the sheep and party loyal. Those who dont get to benifit from tourism are the doctors, lawyers, poets, intellectuals, the unwanted and the dead. They all came here for a better way of life and freedom.

[Nippelspanner]

Neither will our country stop us from visiting those places as both myself and now BR have stated but don't let that stop your hate fest. There must be some other 60 year old laws on our books for you to try and feel superior over.

The point never was going to Cuba, no one ever said it's not possible.
If you would actually care to read posts you comment on more carefully, you may comprehend them even, who knows?

Nothing to do with superiority as well, but I can see that a fanatic nationalist is unable to think differently.
And me pointing out that you can't go there easily is hardly a "hate fest", but a simple fact and should actually give you something to think about before you talk trash about other countries in the future.

[August]

the usual anti-American hatred and bile"

Gee Nipple, I'm sorry that I live in a better country. Please accept my condolences. Really, they are so totally heart felt. :yep:

[MaDef]

But they don't.
I can fly to Cuba, or Syria if I want. Heck I could visit NK if I'd fancy to-do so, my country won't stop me.Nipplespanner, I begining to think you're looking for an argument... So lets just say I'm right and your 1/2 right and call it a day on this particular subject.:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[Jimbuna]

Cool and calm heads/attitudes everyone please.

[Nippelspanner]

Nipplespanner, I begining to think you're looking for an argument... So lets just say I'm right and your 1/2 right and call it a day on this particular subject.:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

No not at all, but how can you claim "every country..." when it's just not the case?
Nothing to do with wanting to argue, it's simply not correct.
It's also not important at all. Cuba or not, the initial point was something else and was missed by a mile, no need to go back and try again.

[mapuc]

(This should be the correct place)

The diplomatic crisis between the Netherlands and Turkey has taken another serious step / twist(forgot the word I was thinking of using)
Turkey has expelled the Dutch ambassador and closed their airspace for Dutch diplomats

Markus

[MaDef]

No not at all, but how can you claim "every country..." when it's just not the case?
Nothing to do with wanting to argue, it's simply not correct.
It's also not important at all. Cuba or not, the initial point was something else and was missed by a mile, no need to go back and try again.I challange you to name one country that doesn't have some sort of controls on movement of people entering and leaving it's territory. (ie: open borders)

[Bilge_Rat]

so back to the original thread, on 60 minutes last night there was a piece on Mohammed Slahi who was held in Guantanamo from 2002 until 2016 and who wrote a book "Guantanamo Diary". In the interview, Slahi says he went to fight in Afghanistan in the early 90s and then no longer had any contact with Al-Qaida. The interviewer never pressed him further or chalenged him on his claim that he is an innocent man.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/does-torture-get-good-intel-ex-gitmo-detainee-says-no/

However, when you look at his actual DoD file, you find out:

- he joined Al-Qaeda and went to a training camp in Afghanistan in 1992;

Detainee traveled to Afghanistan for training and jihad in 1991. Once there, he attended the al-Faruq Training Camp near Kandahar, AF, for six weeks.

-he then traveled to Bosnia:

In December 1992, detainee traveled to Slovenia to join the jihad in Bosnia-Herzegovina. He returned to Germany after a week when informed that travel into Bosnia was too hazardous

-he was an Al-Qaeda recruiter in Germany:

He admitted his primary responsibility was to recruit for al-Qaida in Europe.

-he is suspected on having recruited several of the 9/11 hijackers:

Detainee is an admitted member of al-Qaida who swore bayat to UBL, trained at al-Qaida camps, served as a key member of al-Qaida’s network in Europe, and was prepared to be a martyr. Detainee is an associate with and probable recruiter of several 11 September 2001 terrorist attack hijackers.

During custodial debriefings, 11 September 2001 terrorist attack coordinator Ramzi Bin al-Shibh, ISN US9YM-010013DP (YM-10013), stated in Germany, detainee recruited YM-10013 and three of the suicide hijackers: Muhammad Atta, the overall mission commander and pilot of the aircraft that crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC); Marwan al-Shehhi, the pilot of the aircraft that destroyed the South Tower of the WTC; and Ziad Jarrah, the pilot of the aircraft that crashed in Pennsylvania. YM-10013 stated detainee recruited him

https://wikileaks.org/gitmo/prisoner/760.html

so poor innocent caught up by the big bad USA or terrorist?

The world is not as black and white as 60 minutes would like to think.

[Nippelspanner]

I challange you to name one country that doesn't have some sort of controls on movement of people entering and leaving it's territory. (ie: open borders)

I challenge you to read what was talked about again?
No one talked about entering, the point was prohibiting traveling to other countries, or at least make it difficult.

As I stated multiple times by now, I could travel wherever I want, my government would not stop me. At worst they'll issue warnings that some places are dangerous, they would however, not stop me or throw artificial obstacles in my way.

I don't understand why this seems to be so complicated.

[mapuc]

In Denmark it is forbidden to take a trip to Syria. I don't know if it's the same in Sweden

Markus

[Reece]

But then nobody in their right mind would want to go there!!:yep:

[MaDef]

I challenge you to read what was talked about again?
No one talked about entering, the point was prohibiting traveling to other countries, or at least make it difficult.

As I stated multiple times by now, I could travel wherever I want, my government would not stop me. At worst they'll issue warnings that some places are dangerous, they would however, not stop me or throw artificial obstacles in my way.

I don't understand why this seems to be so complicated.Different rules for different countries. The EU can do as it pleases.

[Nippelspanner]

Different rules for different countries. The EU can do as it pleases.

Did you actually read my posts?
Because what you just said... was pretty much my point? Mh.
You know what it seems I got misunderstood, or rather my intentions. My bad, I'm not good with words, let me try to explain:

Fact: it is illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba for the purpose of tourism(!) and while this hopefully changes soon, it is, for now, the law, actively restricting every American' s freedom in that regard.
Yes, who gives a damn about Cuba, yes, who cares about enforcing this law and yes, I get it, cuba really sucks and no one wants to go there anyways, got it, so one might 'feel' their freedom to travel isn't restricted. Awesome..... but fact is, that it is - and we won't challenge or violate the law like the damn liburuls and the oburmuh administration or crooked Hillary, will we? ;)

Another Fact: August, and others here, love to act as if the USA is the free-est of the free countries and everywhere else is just a sad and pathetic place to live... but they can't be a tourist in Cuba. Because freedom.
The irony is obvious, isn't it?

That's the issue, this god damn blind "we are the greatest!" bs-mentality only found with a certain kind of Americans, while reality shows a more... Sober picture.

I mean... Explain to me, why the country with the highest incarceration number per capita is the best place to live in?
Explain to me what's so great about spending the most money of all western nations, again per capita, on health care and meds, while only ranking 35th place in life expectancy?
Explain to me what's so awesome about leading, by a large margin, in obesity?
Explain to me what's so star spangled awesome about illiteracy, because that's another area the USA excells at!
And finally, illegal drug use, how does that turn America into that one most awesome country on this planet?
Maybe it's so great because what, some 30-40% of the population actually believes that God created mankind and earth some 10,000 years ago? Lol!

I mean, there's so much more but I really don't want to reap the wrath of some raging 'patriots', so I rather stop here and trust that my point is more clear by now.

So yeah, sorry if I indeed enjoy to remind some that live in a bubble of lies and distraction about their oh-so-awesome countries truth, when they talk crap about other countries all while - and now it gets funny - complaining that someone dared to criticize America in any way, especially if that person, now hold on tight, isn't even American! *faints dramatically*

Of course, none of the above matters, because at least America has guns, phew, lucky!

[Skybird]

Putting it here:

American and Egyptian sources say Russian special forces and drone-equipped units are in Egypt, near the Libyan border, preparing Russian intervention in Libya. Goal is since long to get a foot back in the door and gain influence with the current or next strong man in Libya.

Interesting. Refugees for us in the West, and while we are busy with that and focus all attention on it, the Kremlin takes another big bite in the Mediterranean.

Lets prevent escalating anything! :haha:

This also opens up a question on where Egypt is heading.

[Bilge_Rat]

Fact: it is illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba for the purpose of tourism(!)

Technically true, but in practice, there is no barrier to American tourists visiting Cuba. You just say you are going there as part of a "people to people" exchange.

Many U.S. airlines now fly directly to Cuba.

Here is a good article on the process.


Can Americans Now Legally Travel To Cuba? Here’s My Experience

As I mentioned in a previous installment, I spent two nights in Cuba late last week, and am trying to document the experience as much as possible. I flew Southwest from Fort Lauderdale to Havana on Thursday afternoon, so figured I’d share what the whole process of booking the flight, checking in, etc., was like, given that this is all still pretty new.

(...)

We flew Southwest from Fort Lauderdale to Havana, and across from the check-in desk was a visa desk. We just asked for two visas (which we could pay by credit card), and $100 later we were in possession of them. The price is the same whether you buy them in advance or at the airport.

(..)

Southwest has a separate check-in desk at Fort Lauderdale Airport for flights to Cuba, located on the baggage claim level. It’s my understanding that all airlines have special check-in desks for flights to Cuba.

There was only a short line, and the associate asked us why we were traveling to Cuba (because they have to enter it into the computer). We said “people-to-people exchanges,” and that was the end of it. They’re not asking because they want to quiz you, but rather because they have to enter a reason into the computer.



http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Flying-To-Havana-2.jpg

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/03/can-americans-legally-visit-cuba/

still not sure what the point of this argument is. Do you know someone who has been stopped from travelling to Cuba?

I know some U.S. friends who went, they did not mention any problems and loved their trip.

[Onkel Neal]

Did you actually read my posts?
Because what you just said... was pretty much my point? Mh.
You know what it seems I got misunderstood, or rather my intentions. My bad, I'm not good with words, let me try to explain:

Fact: it is illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba for the purpose of tourism(!) and while this hopefully changes soon, it is, for now, the law, actively restricting every American' s freedom in that regard.
Yes, who gives a damn about Cuba, yes, who cares about enforcing this law and yes, I get it, cuba really sucks and no one wants to go there anyways, got it, so one might 'feel' their freedom to travel isn't restricted. Awesome..... but fact is, that it is - and we won't challenge or violate the law like the damn liburuls and the oburmuh administration or crooked Hillary, will we? ;)

Another Fact: August, and others here, love to act as if the USA is the free-est of the free countries and everywhere else is just a sad and pathetic place to live... but they can't be a tourist in Cuba. Because freedom.
The irony is obvious, isn't it?

That's the issue, this god damn blind "we are the greatest!" bs-mentality only found with a certain kind of Americans, while reality shows a more... Sober picture.

I mean... Explain to me, why the country with the highest incarceration number per capita is the best place to live in?
Explain to me what's so great about spending the most money of all western nations, again per capita, on health care and meds, while only ranking 35th place in life expectancy?
Explain to me what's so awesome about leading, by a large margin, in obesity?
Explain to me what's so star spangled awesome about illiteracy, because that's another area the USA excells at!
And finally, illegal drug use, how does that turn America into that one most awesome country on this planet?
Maybe it's so great because what, some 30-40% of the population actually believes that God created mankind and earth some 10,000 years ago? Lol!

I mean, there's so much more but I really don't want to reap the wrath of some raging 'patriots', so I rather stop here and trust that my point is more clear by now.

So yeah, sorry if I indeed enjoy to remind some that live in a bubble of lies and distraction about their oh-so-awesome countries truth, when they talk crap about other countries all while - and now it gets funny - complaining that someone dared to criticize America in any way, especially if that person, now hold on tight, isn't even American! *faints dramatically*

Of course, none of the above matters, because at least America has guns, phew, lucky!


Hey, don't blame us for being happy about being part of America, it's part of being the best country in the world. And just think, being a Texan Is even mo better.

[Skybird]

Hey, don't blame us for being happy about being part of America, it's part of being the best country in the world. And just think, being a Texan Is even mo better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJURd-FGr30

[ikalugin]

Interesting. Refugees for us in the West, and while we are busy with that and focus all attention on it, the Kremlin takes another big bite in the Mediterranean.

We wouldn't have to salvage Lybia if it was not destroyed by the Western intervention.

[mapuc]

But then nobody in their right mind would want to go there!!:yep:

But there are-especially those who have become radical/fanatics and want to fight for ISIS

And then there are those who want to fight against ISIS

Markus

[August]

still not sure what the point of this argument is.

The point of it is he wants something to throw in our faces the next time any of us shows a bit of pride in our country.

[Buddahaid]

The point of it is he wants something to throw in our faces the next time any of us shows a bit of pride in our country.

Then why rise to the bait? It just spirals into a mess after a few posts.

[Rockstar]

Travel to Cuba may not be the easiest thing to do without money but we do have the freedom to lobby our government to change the laws. Problem is, nobody really gives a crap about wether they go to Cuba or not.

Theres one of the most beautiful beaches Ive ever seen at Cape Lookout, N.C. it's like standing out in the middle of the ocean you really get a sense of the unbridled power of the Atlantic.

Cant afford to go to Bermuda then I strongly recommend Block Island, R.I.

Theres the Florida Keys, Jersey shore, South Carolina, the list goes on.

We got over 95,000 miles of shoreline with so much in our own backyard, besides, who needs Cuba?

[Buddahaid]

...besides, who needs Cuba?

You just can't lay off using disrespectful adjectives can you?

[Rockstar]

Well, this is the all purpose terrorism thread isnt it?

[Rockstar]

Hear those violins yet? Lets all dance, we'll lead! :D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM

[Jimbuna]

I'm done with editing and requesting acceptable content.

How about respecting the moderator as he does the community here?

[mapuc]

This is a little notification from the ongoing diplomatically crisis between Turkey and The Netherland

(taken from a Danish news paper and only the headlines)

40 milk cows expelled from Turkey

Markus

[Skybird]

This is a little notification from the ongoing diplomatically crisis between Turkey and The Netherland

(taken from a Danish news paper and only the headlines)

40 milk cows expelled from Turkey

Markus

They have expelled 40 Dutch businessmen financing their economy...? Thats really dumb indeed.

[Jimbuna]

French school shooting: Teenage boy arrested after two people injured

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39292755

Too early to say if this is terrorism-related.

[AndyJWest]

FRom the Guardian
Grasse town hall described the incident as between two students and said it was not terror related.
...
Le Monde reported that the suspect who was arrested was a 17-year-old pupil at the high-school. He was arrested at the school armed with several weapons and grenades. The paper said it was not clear whether those weapons were all operational.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/16/school-shooting-in-french-town-of-grasse-sparks-terror-alert

[eddie]

Thousands of guns found by police in Northern Spain!

"Spanish police announced Tuesday they had recovered around 10,000 assault rifles, pistols, machine guns, and revolvers, as well as 400 shells and grenades, in raids in the north of the country."

Click on the pictures to enlarge them to see just how many weapons they found, who knows where they could have ended up at!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/thousands-guns-bound-terrorist-groups-seized-spain-n733286

[Jimbuna]

Thousands of guns found by police in Northern Spain!

"Spanish police announced Tuesday they had recovered around 10,000 assault rifles, pistols, machine guns, and revolvers, as well as 400 shells and grenades, in raids in the north of the country."

Click on the pictures to enlarge them to see just how many weapons they found, who knows where they could have ended up at!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/thousands-guns-bound-terrorist-groups-seized-spain-n733286

Possibly the British Army now that the defence cuts are getting ridiculous :):03:

[Skybird]

The great sultan has called Turks living in Europe to not have just three children (the former Erdoghan doctrine'S number), but four, better five. As I keep on saying: demographics are a weapon. Which actually is a many centuries-old truth. Just Western fools today refuse to understand that, thinking that math means nothing.

[Nippelspanner]

The great sultan has called Turks living in Europe to not have just three children (the former Erdoghan doctrine'S number), but four, better five. As I keep on saying: demographics are a weapon. Which actually is a many centuries-old truth. Just Western fools today refuse to understand that, thinking that math means nothing.

Reminds me of Braveheart...
"If we can't drive them out, we'll breed them out!"

Have seen an alarming video showcasing the demographic development years ago. I know why I'm considering leaving Europe.
Meanwhile, the Gutmenschen argue that their "kebab seller is really nice", so there's "no need to worry".

[insert all the facepalms]

[Schroeder]

Reminds me of Braveheart...
"If we can't drive them out, we'll breed them out!"

Have seen an alarming video showcasing the demographic development years ago. I know why I'm considering leaving Europe.
Meanwhile, the Gutmenschen argue that their "kebab seller is really nice", so there's "no need to worry".


Today a fellow student of mine said that she had read the Koran and there was no mentioning of violence in it....:o

This is what I found after a short search:
Koran 9:5: [I]„Sind die heiligen Monate abgelaufen, dann tötet die Beigeseller \[Götzendiener\], wo immer ihr sie findet, ergreift sie, belagert sie, und lauert ihnen auf aus jedem Hinterhalt.

Sure 9:29: „Kämpft gegen die, die nicht an Gott glauben und auch nicht an den Jüngsten Tag (...), bis sie erniedrigt den Tribut aus der Hand entrichten.

Sure 2 :191. Und tötet sie wo immer ihr sind findet, und vertreibt sie von dort von wo sie euch vertrieben haben. Und die Verführung ist schlimmer als Töten. Und kämpft nicht mit ihnen bei der heiligen Moschee in Mekka, es sei denn sie bekämpfen euch dort zuerst. Aber wenn sie euch angreifen, dann tötet sie. So ist der Lohn für die Ungläubigen.

Sure 2:193. Und bekämpft sie bis es keine Verführung mehr gibt (Ungläubigkeit und Anbetung von Anderen neben Allah) und die Religion (jede Form und Art der Verehrung) nur Allah (alleine) gilt. Und wenn sie nachgeben, dann lasst dort keine Übertretung sein außer gegen Az-Zalimin (Polytheisten und Sünder).

Sure 4:34 „Die Männer stehen über den Frauen, und wenn ihr fürchtet, dass Frauen sich auflehnen, dann vermahnt sie, meidet sie im Ehebett und schlagt sie.“

Sure 47:8„Die aber ungläubig sind – nieder mit ihnen!

Koran 9/123. O die ihr glaubt, kämpfet wider jene der Ungläubigen, die euch benachbart sind, und laßt sie in euch Härte finden; und wisset, daß Allah mit den Gottesfürchtigen ist.

Sure 47, Vers 4: „Wenn ihr die Ungläubigen trefft, dann herunter mit dem Kopf, bis ihr ein Gemetzel unter ihnen angerichtet habt. Die übrigen legt in Ketten.

In der Sure 47, Verse 36/37 heißt es: „Seid daher nicht milde gegen eure Feinde und ladet sie nicht zum Frieden ein. Ihr sollt die Mächtigen sein; denn Allah ist mit Euch und er entzieht euch nicht den Lohn eures Tuns (eurer Taten im Krieg)“.


She wants to bring the Koran on Monday...let's see if she got one of the censored Salafist's versions to make Islam look nice to the Western world.:roll:

@Skybird
Feel free to give me more quotes if you have some handy.:D

[em2nought]

Reminds me of Braveheart...
"If we can't drive them out, we'll breed them out!"

Have seen an alarming video showcasing the demographic development years ago. I know why I'm considering leaving Europe.
Meanwhile, the Gutmenschen argue that their "kebab seller is really nice", so there's "no need to worry".

[insert all the facepalms]

If I have to travel half way across the globe to get a good Döner Kebab then so be it. :D

[Skybird]

Today a fellow student of mine said that she had read the Koran and there was no mentioning of violence in it....:o

This is what I found after a short search:


She wants to bring the Koran on Monday...let's see if she got one of the censored Salafist's versions to make Islam look nice to the Western world.:roll:

@Skybird
Feel free to give me more quotes if you have some handy.:D
This tit-for-tat will not get you anywhere.

Better make her read this trilogy:

https://www.amazon.de/Von-Gott-Allah-Christentum-Fortschrittsgesellschaft/dp/3776630108/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=14GPF6YM1QN49R6X6AR0

https://www.amazon.de/Allah-Terror-Djihad-Deformierung-Westens/dp/377662289X/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=4DD6A6PN1XWNS30CTHTN

https://www.amazon.de/Allahs-Schleier-Frau-Kampf-Kulturen/dp/3776623667/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RSM49EDGAQNTENJ7NM6X

Or this:

https://www.amazon.de/islamische-Faschismus-Eine-Analyse/dp/3426300753/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=W5Z4575BGK2KDWC47RDD

https://www.amazon.de/Mohamed-Eine-Abrechnung-Hamed-Abdel-Samad/dp/3426276402/ref=pd_sim_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7FHGKT84SY1ZXW81WKXE

Its extremely difficult to read and correctly sort in the Quran without any academic support literature, it often leads to just seeing who is the better cherry-picker. Its better to read about the Quran from competent academic authors, than to read the Quran itself. And with competent I do not mean scholars and Imams - priests are not in the business of giving an objective idea of their cult and/or ideology, but to give an extremely biased one - like the Pope's business is not to relativise the Catholic church's role, but to deliberatly point it out.

[Skybird]

Probably Muhammeddan (who else get radicalised in huge numbers these days?) terrorist shot dead at Paris Orly airport. Being described as a "radical" on a watchlist who was involved in a shooting with the police just hours before. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39314250 They still do not say he was Islamic, but when the talk is of "radicalised" individuals, chances are that the individual in question is of Muslim confession, obviously, so I put my money on the option with the biggest likelihood.

[Skybird]

And just in - traraaaa, big surprise, the killed villain was a "radical Islamist", his father and brother have been arrested by now as well. Officials get quoted with believing in that there is a terrorist background.

[Jimbuna]

France....yet again!! :nope:

[eddie]

At least they got him Jim. before a lot of innocent people were killed!

[Skybird]

France....yet again!! :nope:
Any surprise in that?

[Jimbuna]

At least they got him Jim. before a lot of innocent people were killed!

True that Eddie :yep:

[Skybird]

Media say he shouted "I am here to die for Allah." I appreciate men who put their deeds where their mouth is.

[Schroeder]

Media say he shouted "I am here to die for Allah." I appreciate men who put their deeds where their mouth is.
But at least that has nothing to do with Islam!!!!!:yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Mosul offensive: Camps struggle to feed IS survivors

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39324277

My heart goes out to them...not.

[August]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39324277

My heart goes out to them...not.

Why not Jim? They survived the ISIS occupation, they could probably use a helping hand.

[ikalugin]

Why not Jim? They survived the ISIS occupation, they could probably use a helping hand.
After they went through filtration, sure.

[ikalugin]

https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/new-gerasimov-article-on-nature-of-warfare/

[Rockstar]

Ummm, I think it might be safe ro say not everyone who commented has watched the video. These are survivors of ISIS not ISIS prisoners.

[Jimbuna]

Why not Jim? They survived the ISIS occupation, they could probably use a helping hand.

Oops!! Got that totally back to front :oops:

http://i.imgur.com/mbDBqhB.gif
http://i.imgur.com/Uyj1S1D.gif

[ikalugin]

http://www.belta.by/president/view/v-belarusi-zaderzhali-gotovivshih-provokatsiju-s-oruzhiem-boevikov-238543-2017/
This article reports that Lukashenko claims that they found a number of militants (no idea how otherwise translate term "боевик", the only other word that comes to mind is terrorist/insurgent). They were allegedly preparing an armed provocation (context - Zapad-2017 exercises would be conducted in Belorussia, on 20th there was an attempt to rush the border guards in Ukraine by armed men on a jeep).

Allegedly those militants received training in various camps, located in Belorussia as well as other countries - Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania. Allegedly they were funded through Poland and Lithuania.

p.s.
http://www.bns.lt/topic/1912/news/52283903/
Lithuania denies those allegations.

[mapuc]

So it starts....

I can't say if the evidence is trustworthy or not.

I can only say that if a country have plans of invade an another country or countries, this country have to build a "Good reason" or an "excuse" to do so.

Either those countries mentioned by Ikalugin, have or are training people or Russia is trying to get an excuse to attack one of more of these countries. Most likely Belarus ´cause this country have no deal with NATO or similar

Markus

[eddie]

I thought Syrian and Russian troops had pushed the Jihadists out of Damascus, but apparently that is not true. 2 attacks by Rebels in the last few days as fighting goes on over there.

"Rebels and jihadists on Tuesday launched a fresh assault on east Damascus, two days after Syrian government forces repelled an initial attack just a few kilometres from the centre of the capital."


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/syria-rebels-launch-fresh-assault-on-east-damascus/ar-BByuCJh

[ikalugin]

So it starts....

I can't say if the evidence is trustworthy or not.

I can only say that if a country have plans of invade an another country or countries, this country have to build a "Good reason" or an "excuse" to do so.

Either those countries mentioned by Ikalugin, have or are training people or Russia is trying to get an excuse to attack one of more of these countries. Most likely Belarus ´cause this country have no deal with NATO or similar

Markus
I think it is more about Lukashenko trying to get attention and justify his internal policy.

[Catfish]

Is it 'terrorism' when one head of a state poisons another one, or enemies? Or is it political business as usual? Some could also die in airplane accidents.
I mean there are alternatives to an outright war, and justify it by fake news. :O:

[Reece]

Oops!! Got that totally back to front :oops:

http://i.imgur.com/mbDBqhB.gif

Typical, wouldn't expect much else!!:O:

[ikalugin]

Ukrainian internal security agency - SBU requests additional information on those training camps from Lukashenko:

http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/sbu-napravila-zapros-v-belorussiyu-otnositelno-zayavleniya-o-trenirovochnyh-lageryah-boevikov-v-ukraine-379360.html

[ikalugin]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39355940
Shots fired in UK.

[Jimbuna]

It was only a matter of time before it happened here in the UK.

Live updates: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39355505

[ikalugin]

It was only a matter of time before it happened here in the UK.

Live updates: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39355505
Lets hope that casualties are minimal and it would be long untill there is another attack.

[ikalugin]

The article below is very interesting. I strongly suggest reading about it. While I do not agree with many points made in it, it is a well research and made work.
Hybrid warfare has become the Frankenstein of the feild of Russia military analasis; it has taken on a life of its own and there is no obvious way to contain in. Unfortunately, what Russian hybrid warfare is, and how it works, varies dramatically depending on what article, report, PowerPoint brief you are reading. The more we have talked about it, the less we understand it as a useful concept or framework for looking at Russian actionsThe West has been terrorizing itself with specters of hybrid war to an extent that it should qualify as one of history’s better disinformation operations, even if it was wholly unintentional. The problem is most pronounced for European allies who are undergoing a modern version of America’s red scare from the 1940s and 50s.
https://warontherocks.com/2016/03/russian-hybrid-warfare-and-other-dark-arts/

[Bilge_Rat]

News report that the policeman who was stabbed has died. 4 reported dead so far. very sad.

could have been worse, schoolkids were on the bridge minutes before the attack..all are safe.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7h1ygOXkAAb4Xy.jpg

[ikalugin]

News report that the policeman who was stabbed has died. 4 reported dead so far. very sad.

could have been worse, schoolkids were on the bridge minutes before the attack..all are safe.


Don't police officers wear stab-proof vests?

[Nippelspanner]

Don't police officers wear stab-proof vests?

Won't help much against someone really... determined.
Also, they do not protect the neck for example. Nit saying that's where he got stabbed, but the spot would be the one to go for, as nasty as it sounds.

[ikalugin]

Won't help much against someone really... determined.
Also, they do not protect the neck for example. Nit saying that's where he got stabbed, but the spot would be the one to go for, as nasty as it sounds.
True.

[eddie]

Sorry to hear this about the attack in the UK, so sad for those killed and injured. Prayers go out for those in hospitals and for the families of those who were caught up in this needless bull crap.

[Skybird]

Sail on, Britain! :salute: Let no scum irritate you!

[Skybird]

Won't help much against someone really... determined.
Also, they do not protect the neck for example. Nit saying that's where he got stabbed, but the spot would be the one to go for, as nasty as it sounds.
Training and experience (learned reflexes) can make the difference, and I tell that from experience - without that I would not be here to type today. If I had worn a vest (but why would an unsuspected private pedestrian do that...), i would not have a scar on my right hip today.

Every little difference in protection can make the decisive difference, if luck just smiles on you.

[Catfish]

Late home today and heard it in the news. So sad.

[eddie]

What has Germany done now!?! You guys over there are now supporting terrorism?:D That's what Erdogan is saying, and he means it too,lol That jackass!! On a serious note, he had said to day, that it won't be safe for Europeans to be walking the streets as long as they keep up this attitude towards Turkey! Where's Daesh when you need them to take this jerk out! Here is the link for his threat against everyone in Europe. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/recep-tayyip-erdogan-germany-turkey-president-supports-terrorism-mercilessly-isis-a7628046.html

[Skybird]

What has Germany done now!?! You guys over there are now supporting terrorism?:D That's what Erdogan is saying, and he means it too,lol
He also says that if Europe does not learn to treat Turkey right, "no European will ever be safe on European streets anymore".

Hostility cannot be expressed any more openly without starting to hit and kick and shoot at the other.

US wants Turkey as "ally" against Iran. So it will bully Germany into keeping Turkey embraced, like they did in the 50s/60s when forcing Germany to start Turkish migration into Germany (which orginally Germany did not want and the SPD strictly wanred against). Turkey wants to boss a Sunni alliance, and a good bite off the Balkan again. Russia wants their share of the Syrian and Libyan pie. The EU does not know what it wants, except that it wants to hurt nobody, and sooner or later will need to sink migrant boats in the Med nevertheless, since millions are sitting ready to head for Europe.

I need a bigger popcorn maker.

[Skybird]

What has Germany done now!?! You guys over there are now supporting terrorism?:D That's what Erdogan is saying, and he means it too,lol
He also says that if Europe does not learn to treat Turkey right, "no European will ever be safe on European streets anymore".

Hostility cannot be expressed any more openly without starting to hit and kick and shoot at the other.

US wants Turkey as "ally" against Iran. So it will bully Germany into keeping Turkey embraced, like they did in the 50s/60s when forcing nato AND Germany to start Turkish migration into Germany (which orginally Germany did not want and the SPD strictly warned that them Turks and their Islam could never be integrated - if that is not ironic, not the CDU but the SPD said that...). Turkey wants to boss a Sunni alliance, and a good bite off the Balkan again (as if Sunnis are eager to repeat the Osman nightmare again of wich they hold so splendid and brutal memories...). Russia wants their share of the Syrian and Libyan pie. The EU does not know what it wants, except that it wants to hurt nobody, and sooner or later will need to sink migrant boats in the Med nevertheless, since millions are sitting ready to head for Europe.

I need a bigger popcorn maker. Not even Hollywood can rival this script for headdiving into drama-madness-disaster.

[eddie]

Well Skybird, hopefully Erdogan will die of a heart attack soon, or maybe someone will put a bullet in his brain, either way would be fine with me!:yeah:

[eddie]

Saw this on another site tonight, thought some would like to know the police officer who gave his life in the attack in the UK. May he rest in peace, a hero in my book.

https://s19.postimg.org/ehof283ur/17457703_754449461381319_8409985262045916227_n.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6oxra8xvj/)screen shot pc (https://postimage.org/app.php)

"The police officer who lost his life today, has been named as PC Keith Palmer, 48 years old, a father and a husband, with fifteen years service.

Our sincere condolences to his family who have had 'that knock on the door' today.

All police families will understand that expression all too well, never knowing whether their loved ones would make it safely home after their shift.

Keith never made it home today."

[ValoWay]

Look at me! I can go full Erdoğan, too! He should give Ioania back to Greece and sponsor the repair of the Parthenon :03:

[Skybird]

Well Skybird, hopefully Erdogan will die of a heart attack soon, or maybe someone will put a bullet in his brain, either way would be fine with me!:yeah:
Villains tend to have more lives than a cat. See Hitler - how many attempted assassinations have there been...? I lost track. Dozens and dozens.

He has attacked German BND for saying that BND has zero indications for the coup last year having been a coup launched by Gülen. In fact BND pointed out that the plans of the government'S reactions had been laying in the drawer and were completed just short time before the "coup" took place. This explains why Erdoghan reacted so dramatically fast. - Back then I said from relatively early on i tink that the socalled coup was staged as a plot by Erdoghan himself, to get the card blanch that he wanted to get. I am more convinced of this now than ever before. The military is no factor in defending the old order anymore, the AKP has systemtically eroded the personnel basis and flooded the lower ranks with AKP followers in past ten years that were placed to travel the rankings upwards in fast time - and they now have the higher ranks and officer corps pretty much under control.

The old Kemalist order is as dead as it can be. Even if the sultan looses the referendum next month. He will find another way then.

[Jimbuna]

Saw this on another site tonight, thought some would like to know the police officer who gave his life in the attack in the UK. May he rest in peace, a hero in my book.

https://s19.postimg.org/ehof283ur/17457703_754449461381319_8409985262045916227_n.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6oxra8xvj/)screen shot pc (https://postimage.org/app.php)

"The police officer who lost his life today, has been named as PC Keith Palmer, 48 years old, a father and a husband, with fifteen years service.

Our sincere condolences to his family who have had 'that knock on the door' today.

All police families will understand that expression all too well, never knowing whether their loved ones would make it safely home after their shift.

Keith never made it home today."

TO FALLEN COMRADES...

SPECTEMUR AGENDO

~SALUTE~

http://i.imgur.com/L45jULx.jpg

[ikalugin]

Well Skybird, hopefully Erdogan will die of a heart attack soon, or maybe someone will put a bullet in his brain, either way would be fine with me!:yeah:
I agree with Skybird in this case, it is wishfull thinking.

p.s. amusingly enough it appears (and my perception can be wrong) that Russia runs the SAR's foreighn policy, with Turkey calling in the Russian representative after the recent screw up and not the Syrian one.

[ikalugin]

It appears that the Russian ex-MP was assasinated in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949KlusDxO4&feature=youtu.be
Weapons storage fascility in Ukraine burning yet again (this is not the first time it happens). It appears that this fascility stores chemical weapons.

[Skybird]

Apparently a terror attack with a car in Antwerp has been prevented at last second. Means: during the murderer turning into a crowded street and picking up speed.

http://www.dw.com/en/belgian-police-arrest-man-attempting-to-drive-into-crowd-in-antwerp/a-38090433

Unfortunately these scumbags have realised now that cars are the ideal weapon. Nizza. Berlin. London. Now almost Antwerp.

[eddie]

Glad they got him before anyone was hurt.

[August]

Patricia Arquette believes the London Bridge attack was the work of the Trump administration to deflect attention from the Russia scandal.

http://constitution.com/liberal-hollywood-actress-claims-london-terror-set-president-trump/

[Reece]

I think Patricia was being coerced by a medium.:yep:

[mapuc]

Patricia Arquette believes the London Bridge attack was the work of the Trump administration to deflect attention from the Russia scandal.

http://constitution.com/liberal-hollywood-actress-claims-london-terror-set-president-trump/


I was wondering when the first sign of conspiracy would pop-up it didn't take long.

Markus

[em2nought]

Maybe we should starting giving all the lousy movie remakes "fake" five star reviews so Hollywood keeps all the loony actors busy working with no time to dabble in politics. :D

[AndyJWest]

Patricia Arquette believes the London Bridge attack was the work of the Trump administration to deflect attention from the Russia scandal.

http://constitution.com/liberal-hollywood-actress-claims-london-terror-set-president-trump/

Two problems. Firstly, the tweet says nothing about the London attack (which had only taken place a few hours previously, and which she may well not have known anything about, never mind 'believed': note that she writes 'if there is a terrorist attack'), and secondly she says that such acts 'may be a #setup'. May be. Personally I think it is rather ridiculous to suggest that Trump would resort to such tactics, but give the sheer volume of deranged conspiracy-mongering that has originated from Trump and his supporters over the years, they are hardly in a position to criticise their opponents for doing the same. Though no doubt they will do so anyway, since self-awareness isn't one of their strong points.

[ikalugin]

http://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/24/03/2017/58d4da6b9a7947b4f0f58ea1?from=newsfeed
Islamists attacked one of the Russian National Guard (ex Interior Troops) compaunds in Chechnya, 6 of the attackers are dead, 2 managed to escape. 6 servicemen are dead, 3 are in the hospital.

[Skybird]

Patricia Arquette believes the London Bridge attack was the work of the Trump administration to deflect attention from the Russia scandal.

Thats how Trump's lies work,you just demonstrate it.

Actually she said this:
"Remember this, if there is a terrorist attack or any crap before this Trump-Russia disaster is resolved , it may be a setup."

Thats is sound advise. Distraction tactics are nothing new in politics indeed. Even deadly ones. Even wars have been launched to distract from a government's innerpolitical problems.

And no, i have no crush on Patricia arquette, I am not even aware of whom she actually is. The only Arquette-named woman I remember was acting in Le Grand Bleu 30 years ago or so.

Still a great movie, btw.

[August]

Thats is sound advise. Distraction tactics are nothing new in politics indeed. Even deadly ones. Even wars have been launched to distract from a government's innerpolitical problems.

Context is everything Skybird. You can't seriously believe that the US government would somehow convince a British Muslim to turn terrorist and ram his car into a bunch of tourists for any reason, let alone as a mere distraction for a domestic political fight that has been going on for months and that Trump is currently winning.

And c'mon you know that Patricia Arquette believes that's what likely happened. She is a known liberal nutcase.

[Nippelspanner]

Though no doubt they will do so anyway, since self-awareness isn't one of their strong points.
/Thread.

[Nippelspanner]

She is a known liberal nutcase.
I don't know her so I neither agree or disagree, but aren't these damn liburuls nutcases by definition, August?

Because you never differentiate.
You always say "the liberals", as if we're talking about some collective that thinks 100% alike.
Normally, I wouldn't feel the need to ask, but in your case: You are aware that this isn't the case, aren't you?

I ask because every political post of yours strongly implies you do not, which in conclusion makes me wonder about your actual agenda.
This problem I can't observe, to this extend, with anyone else here.

I'm pointing this out because any political debate is absolutely pointless if one is so biased, so indoctrinated and so narrow-minded towards anything coming from "the other side", no matter the topic, the sources, true or not.
It seems to me that you do not actually care about any of the countless topics, since literally all you do is
a) find sone excuse for trumps latest screw-up,
b) downplay any trump-related issues and
c) point out that "the liberals" really, really suck and no matter what: it's all their fault.

Not how any of this works.
And not everyone falls for it.
Just saying.

[Skybird]

Context is everything Skybird. You can't seriously believe that the US government would somehow convince a British Muslim to turn terrorist and ram his car into a bunch of tourists for any reason, let alone as a mere distraction for a domestic political fight that has been going on for months and that Trump is currently winning.
Are you kidding me...? Or is this just to find out how far opportunistic rhetorics will get you?

And c'mon you know that Patricia Arquette believes that's what likely happened. She is a known liberal nutcase.To repeat myself:

And no, i have no crush on Patricia arquette, I am not even aware of whom she actually is. The only Arquette-named woman I remember was acting in Le Grand Bleu 30 years ago or so.

[August]

I don't know her so I neither agree or disagree, but aren't these damn liburuls nutcases by definition, August?

Because you never differentiate.
You always say "the liberals", as if we're talking about some collective that thinks 100% alike.
Normally, I wouldn't feel the need to ask, but in your case: You are aware that this isn't the case, aren't you?

I ask because every political post of yours strongly implies you do not, which in conclusion makes me wonder about your actual agenda.
This problem I can't observe, to this extend, with anyone else here.

I'm pointing this out because any political debate is absolutely pointless if one is so biased, so indoctrinated and so narrow-minded towards anything coming from "the other side", no matter the topic, the sources, true or not.
It seems to me that you do not actually care about any of the countless topics, since literally all you do is
a) find sone excuse for trumps latest screw-up,
b) downplay any trump-related issues and
c) point out that "the liberals" really, really suck and no matter what: it's all their fault.

Not how any of this works.
And not everyone falls for it.
Just saying.

Yeah and i'm just saying this is rich coming from a guy who consistently lumps all conservatives together into one "collective". :roll:

[August]

Are you kidding me...? Or is this just to find out how far opportunistic rhetorics will get you?

Hey believe what you want. You and Nipple make a great pair.

[Nippelspanner]

Yeah and i'm just saying this is rich coming from a guy who consistently lumps all conservatives together into one "collective". :roll:

I hoped you would say that.
Know why?
Because it's - as usual - a lie.

I am conservative myself - it just depends on the topic. Unlike you, I do not see this as some sort of "us against them".
I'm no part of any political party, nor can I define if I'm liberal, republican, or whatever, since I hold my own views and do not shape my opinions to fit into some sorry little box, like you.

I told you this multiple times by now, yet as usual, you aren't able or willing to understand.
Your loss. Really.

[Dowly]

@August: Not everyone is three sided as you think. I could not say what I am politically, I go case by case.

Perhaps you should try that too, instead of just blindly rooting for the hometeam?

[August]

I hoped you would say that.
Know why?
Because it's - as usual - a lie.

Oh I see, when you generalize it's just your own opinion but according to you my opinions are all lies. Pure hypocrisy.

I am conservative myself -

:har:

Your loss. Really.

Well the way I see it nothing and I really do mean nothing concerning you is or will ever be my loss. Really. :salute:

[August]

@August: Not everyone is three sided as you think. I could not say what I am politically, I go case by case.

Perhaps you should try that too, instead of just blindly rooting for the hometeam?

Well Dowly at least I am rooting for someone instead of sitting back making criticisms from their ivory towers like some here love to do, but i'll remember what you said the next time I see one of you blindly lump all American conservatives together in your usual negative manner.

[Nippelspanner]

Hey believe what you want. You and Nipple make a great pair.

Probably because we disagree so often, right?
Stop just pulling things out yours, August.

Also, it's Nippelspanner for you. The mods might ignore your derogatory abuse of my actual nickname, I don't, however.

[Dowly]

Well Dowly at least I am rooting for someone instead of sitting back making criticisms

You are free to side with what you want, but would it not be better to first look at what both sides offer, what is best, and then make your mind?

from their ivory towers like some here love to do, but i'll remember what you said the next time I see one of you blindly lump all American conservatives together in your usual negative manner.

Have I ever lumped you (Americans) together? I might have long long long time ago, but recently? I find your remark quite strange. I do apologize, if I have said so.

[Rockstar]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/imam-sermon-montreal-mosque-1.4037397


go and kill in the name of ... (can you guess?)

[Nippelspanner]

Oh I see, when you generalize it's just your own opinion but according to you my opinions are all lies. Pure hypocrisy.

You didn't get it.
My point is that, unlike you, I do not generalize. I always try to differentiate. I never said "all Republicans", I always use little words that make all the difference, like "certain Republicans" for example.
Do you understand now, or do I need to write a kids book about it so you may understand?

Also, quote-mining is considered really low.
Next time you quote me, use the complete sentence instead of cutting out the important part.

Seriously it doesn't get lower than this.

[August]

Do you understand now, or do I need to write a kids book about it so you may understand?

Vacuous insults don't make your point for you Nipple.

Also, quote-mining is considered really low.
Next time you quote me, use the complete sentence instead of cutting out the important part.

Seriously it doesn't get lower than this.

I don't care what you consider low, I really don't. I quote what I feel is the gist of what I am responding to and that's it.

[Nippelspanner]

Vacuous insults don't make your point for you Nipple.
Not insults, honest questions. Sorry but if you don't understand things even after they're carefully explained I don't know what else to do, maybe a colored book with easy words would suffice I thought?
Don't blame me if you can't catch up - or love to play dumb.
Also thank you for supporting what I've said earlier regarding my nickname. You've done me a great service by once more showing off your hypocrisy and core personality.



I don't care what you consider low, I really don't. I quote what I feel is the gist of what I am responding to and that's it.
You don't care, yet you tell me over and over that you don't care... Yeah right.
Also, cheap excuse. You cut my sentence short on purpose, since the complete one already rendered what you said irrelevant.

Hate to repeat myself but it doesn't get much lower from that point, August.

[August]

Not insults, honest questions. Sorry but if you don't understand things even after they're carefully explained I don't know what else to do, maybe a colored book with easy words would suffice I thought?
Don't blame me if you can't catch up - or love to play dumb.
Also thank you for supporting what I've said earlier regarding my nickname. You've done me a great service by once more showing off your hypocrisy and core personality.



You don't care, yet you tell me over and over that you don't care... Yeah right.
Also, cheap excuse. You cut my sentence short on purpose, since the complete one already rendered what you said irrelevant.

Hate to repeat myself but it doesn't get much lower from that point, August.

Again it seems that the personal insults you are unable to stop throwing are the mainstay of your argument which invalidates anything else you may say. I'm happy to keep telling you that.

[Nippelspanner]

Again it seems that the personal insults you are unable to stop throwing are the mainstay of your argument which invalidates anything else you may say. I'm happy to keep telling you that.
Mhyeah, something like that...

Translation:
"I have no single argument, nor any evidence for the claims I made earlier and to distract from this, I play crybaby Erdoghan style, only bitching about ""personal insults"" while at the same time I, myself, are not any better - yet I enjoy calling others hypocrites."

Amazing.

[Buddahaid]

Really? I declare you both earned the Last Word Medal. :Kaleun_Salute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeB2v9OHs5Y

[August]

Really? I declare you both earned the Last Word Medal

Eh, let him have it. It's all he's really got... :)

[Buddahaid]

Eh, let him have it. It's all he's really got... :)

See! You still try for it. :O:

[August]

See! You still try for it. :O:

:oops: When he wakes up i'm sure he'll post something!

[Reece]

I like it, keep going guys!!:up:

[Sailor Steve]

No, don't keep going. Enough is enough.

Just because you perceive someone as exhibiting certain behavior doesn't mean you're not doing it yourself. I see both sides here as being at fault on this, so I will state it as plainly as I can. Stick to the subject, make real arguments, and stop the personal attacks.

Only warning.

[Rockstar]

Well if this is up for a vote I say keep going. That makes it 3-1. :)

[u crank]

^ I think Steve has what they call the “nuclear option” :D

Back on topic. This is disturbing but not unexpected. Lone wolf attacks may not be what they seem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/world/asia/isis-messaging-app-terror-plot.html

...cases like Mr. Yazdani’s offer troubling examples of what counterterrorism experts are calling enabled or remote-controlled attacks: violence conceived and guided by operatives in areas controlled by the Islamic State whose only connection to the would-be attacker is the internet.

Not good.

“If you look at the communications between the attackers and the virtual plotters, you will see that there is a direct line of communication to the point where they are egging them on minutes, even seconds, before the individual carries out an attack.”


:nope:

[Reece]

Well if this is up for a vote I say keep going. That makes it 3-1. :)
Yeh Steve spoils all the fun!!:hmph:

[ValoWay]

Who cares what a random actress thinks about a terrorist attack which happened on the other side of the ocean? We also pay way too much attention to random right wing populists. It's like when one of them farts the media immediately leaps at his/her ass to get the green cloud on tape in order to make a big thing out of it and so that average joe freaks out and panics.. Gz, I bet when I step outside right now to shout some random racist slurs I'll be in the 8 o'clock news, too and be praised as the new right wing jesus, huh?

They should stop reporting such nonsense and focus on what those people say which have something to lose rather than to listen to some clowns which can shout whatever lie they want..

[Skybird]

http://www.dw.com/en/german-police-predicted-berlin-terror-attack-nine-months-prior/a-38123750

"Months before Anis Amri rammed a truck into a crowded market, police warned he was planning an attack. Authorities ignored their calls for his deportation, saying such a move was legally impossible."

I see. If it was legally impossible, then we indeed must endure such attacks, that is sad, but a burden that we must carry. Good that we cleared this one up. At least we have ha da heart-warming memorial ceremony. Without Amri, we wouldn'T have had that, so I take the opportunity to thank the man for what he has done - fairness where fairness is due. :up:

Ah, Jaeger at it again, I read. That name we already know from the aftermaths of the NYE mass sex attacks at Cologne were he also manouvered in shady and dubious ways and spoke in obvious split tongues.

[ikalugin]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39481770
http://www.rbc.ru/textonlines/03/04/2017/58e238789a7947f42e875f91?from=newsfeed
explosions in Saint Petersburg metro.

3 stations are closed, death toll is being calculated.

[Catfish]

Oh sh... sorry to hear that :o

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

ikalugin, Has there been one or two explosions? Somewhat confusing information at the moment.

[Skybird]

I wonder whether we will project the Russian flag on the Eiffel tower and the Brandenburger gate, like we did in the past with German and French flags after terror strikes.

German news says German intel strongly associates Muslim terrorism with the deed.

[Susexx]

All station closed.

[ikalugin]

ikalugin, Has there been one or two explosions? Somewhat confusing information at the moment.
There was one, it exploded when the train was between the stations. Second device was found and disarmed. Metro in SPB got locked down but now is partially open (without the areas affected by the explosion), there is increased security, currently appartment buildings are being searched for possible bombs.

Toll so far appears to be 10-11 dead and 45-47 injured.
I wonder whether we will project the Russian flag on the Eiffel tower and the Brandenburger gate, like we did in the past with German and French flags after terror strikes.

German news says German intel strongly associates Muslim terrorism with the deed.
My guess is that you won't.

[eddie]

Sorry to hear about this, doesn't matter what country a terrorist attack happens in, innocent lives were lost and that is a sad tragedy. I hope they catch the terrorists quickly so more people won't be hurt.

[Jimbuna]

Sorry to hear about this, doesn't matter what country a terrorist attack happens in, innocent lives were lost and that is a sad tragedy. I hope they catch the terrorists quickly so more people won't be hurt.

Rgr that :yep:

[Nippelspanner]

I wonder whether we will project the Russian flag on the Eiffel tower and the Brandenburger gate, like we did in the past with German and French flags after terror strikes.

German news says German intel strongly associates Muslim terrorism with the deed.

We won't, which will point out the despicable hypocrisy behind these acts.

While I like the act, the symbol itself, I despise the differentiation.
Sure, somewhere you gotta do it, otherwise the Eiffel tower and our gate would fly a different flag every day, flags most people wouldn't even recognize...

However, in Russias case we have to, and I'd like to, just to remind everyone that the dangers coming from the responsible ideology affect us all, and to show a tiny sign that our countries should not entrench each other more and more, but need to find ways of a peaceful Co-existence, instead of repeating all this cold war lunacy.

We fought a terrible war with Russia not even 100 years ago, followed by decades of political near-miss situations almost leading to global thermonuclear war.
We made some progress in the past 20 years, and now we throw it all away.

If we won't show honest(!) solidarity with Russia about these attacks, like we did with france, we're not only hypocrites, but damn fools also.

Russia =/= Putin. Let's not forget that.
And let's hope that most Russians also will never fall for their governments propaganda.

It pains me to witness where all the recent events are leading.

I don't know if my country will let the Brandenburg gate shine in Russias colors today, but I know my heart is with the victims of another Islamic attack today, the true enemy of Europe.

Time to wake up.
Time to get our priorities straight.

[Skybird]

Kulturpalast in Dresden:

http://img.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2017-04/dresden-st-petersburg/wide__822x462
(source: http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2017-04/brandenburger-tor-kritik-dresden-kulturpalast-st-petersburg-anschlag-solidaritaet)

The Brandenburger Gate was denied. The senate weaseled and claimed that St. Petersburg is no partner city of Berlin.

[mapuc]

One of the main stories in the Primetime news was about this Sarin attack in Syria. The host and some of the guest(some of them expert in different areas)said a USA lead military attack on Syria could be very close-Either they wait for the UN to give the green light for such a move or USA would take the step by their self. Plus those countries who support USA.

Markus

[Schroeder]

One of the main stories in the Primetime news was about this Sarin attack in Syria. The host and some of the guest(some of them expert in different areas)said a USA lead military attack on Syria could be very close-Either they wait for the UN to give the green light for such a move or USA would take the step by their self. Plus those countries who support USA.

Markus
The whole thing leaves a lot of questions open. Why would Assad or the Russians use Sarin now? They are winning, so why use a weapon that will most likely trigger an incalculable risk? It just doesn't make sense. Assad has pretty much nothing to gain from that but everything to loose so why would he do that? Wouldn't it be more plausible that one of the losing parties in Syria wants a US intervention and therefore staged the whole thing?
Trump could surely use a military intervention to distract from his so far disastrous presidency...but intervening in Syria for that....I don't think even he would be that stupid after the glorious outcome of Iraq.:hmmm:

[Bilge_Rat]

The other possibility is that it was not a gas attack by the Assad regime. It could be a rebel stockpile or a false flag operation to trigger U.S. intervention.

Here is an article which discusses the possibilities:

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/05/another-dangerous-rush-to-judgment-in-syria/

not saying its true or not, facts are really sketchy at this point, but it is a possibility. As usual, there is a rush to judgment without actually finding out what the facts are.

There had also been other articles questioning whether the Assad regime was responsible for the 2013 gas attacks. For example this article by Seymour Hersh which said that various Rebel groups linked to Al-Qaida and/or Turkish intelligence also had access to Sarin Gas:

Obama’s change of mind had its origins at Porton Down, the defence laboratory in Wiltshire. British intelligence had obtained a sample of the sarin used in the 21 August attack and analysis demonstrated that the gas used didn’t match the batches known to exist in the Syrian army’s chemical weapons arsenal. The message that the case against Syria wouldn’t hold up was quickly relayed to the US joint chiefs of staff. The British report heightened doubts inside the Pentagon; the joint chiefs were already preparing to warn Obama that his plans for a far-reaching bomb and missile attack on Syria’s infrastructure could lead to a wider war in the Middle East. As a consequence the American officers delivered a last-minute caution to the president, which, in their view, eventually led to his cancelling the attack.

For months there had been acute concern among senior military leaders and the intelligence community about the role in the war of Syria’s neighbours, especially Turkey. Prime Minister Recep Erdoğan was known to be supporting the al-Nusra Front, a jihadist faction among the rebel opposition, as well as other Islamist rebel groups. ‘We knew there were some in the Turkish government,’ a former senior US intelligence official, who has access to current intelligence, told me, ‘who believed they could get Assad’s nuts in a vice by dabbling with a sarin attack inside Syria – and forcing Obama to make good on his red line threat.’

The joint chiefs also knew that the Obama administration’s public claims that only the Syrian army had access to sarin were wrong. The American and British intelligence communities had been aware since the spring of 2013 that some rebel units in Syria were developing chemical weapons. On 20 June analysts for the US Defense Intelligence Agency issued a highly classified five-page ‘talking points’ briefing for the DIA’s deputy director, David Shedd, which stated that al-Nusra maintained a sarin production cell: its programme, the paper said, was ‘the most advanced sarin plot since al-Qaida’s pre-9/11 effort’. (According to a Defense Department consultant, US intelligence has long known that al-Qaida experimented with chemical weapons, and has a video of one of its gas experiments with dogs.) The DIA paper went on: ‘Previous IC [intelligence community] focus had been almost entirely on Syrian CW [chemical weapons] stockpiles; now we see ANF attempting to make its own CW … Al-Nusrah Front’s relative freedom of operation within Syria leads us to assess the group’s CW aspirations will be difficult to disrupt in the future.’ The paper drew on classified intelligence from numerous agencies: ‘Turkey and Saudi-based chemical facilitators,’ it said, ‘were attempting to obtain sarin precursors in bulk, tens of kilograms, likely for the anticipated large scale production effort in Syria.’ (Asked about the DIA paper, a spokesperson for the director of national intelligence said: ‘No such paper was ever requested or produced by intelligence community analysts.’)

Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusra Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial. In the meantime the Turkish press has been rife with speculation that the Erdoğan administration has been covering up the extent of its involvement with the rebels. In a news conference last summer, Aydin Sezgin, Turkey’s ambassador to Moscow, dismissed the arrests and claimed to reporters that the recovered ‘sarin’ was merely ‘anti-freeze’.

The DIA paper took the arrests as evidence that al-Nusra was expanding its access to chemical weapons. It said Qassab had ‘self-identified’ as a member of al-Nusra, and that he was directly connected to Abd-al-Ghani, the ‘ANF emir for military manufacturing’. Qassab and his associate Khalid Ousta worked with Halit Unalkaya, an employee of a Turkish firm called Zirve Export, who provided ‘price quotes for bulk quantities of sarin precursors’. Abd-al-Ghani’s plan was for two associates to ‘perfect a process for making sarin, then go to Syria to train others to begin large scale production at an unidentified lab in Syria’. The DIA paper said that one of his operatives had purchased a precursor on the ‘Baghdad chemical market’, which ‘has supported at least seven CW efforts since 2004’.

A series of chemical weapon attacks in March and April 2013 was investigated over the next few months by a special UN mission to Syria. A person with close knowledge of the UN’s activity in Syria told me that there was evidence linking the Syrian opposition to the first gas attack, on 19 March in Khan Al-Assal, a village near Aleppo. In its final report in December, the mission said that at least 19 civilians and one Syrian soldier were among the fatalities, along with scores of injured. It had no mandate to assign responsibility for the attack, but the person with knowledge of the UN’s activities said: ‘Investigators interviewed the people who were there, including the doctors who treated the victims. It was clear that the rebels used the gas. It did not come out in public because no one wanted to know.’

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

[Skybird]

The whole thing leaves a lot of questions open. Why would Assad or the Russians use Sarin now? They are winning, so why use a weapon that will most likely trigger an incalculable risk? It just doesn't make sense. Assad has pretty much nothing to gain from that but everything to loose so why would he do that? Wouldn't it be more plausible that one of the losing parties in Syria wants a US intervention and therefore staged the whole thing?
Trump could surely use a military intervention to distract from his so far disastrous presidency...but intervening in Syria for that....I don't think even he would be that stupid after the glorious outcome of Iraq.:hmmm:
First, Assad can feel stroing and safe and thus may coincloude he can do whatever he wants, the West cvannot reach him or will not dare to interfere. After all, he did it before, so did the rebels, and there enver were any serious consequences, just words.

Second, I have no detialed image on my mind regarding the map, but if after the defeat at Aleppo Idlip lies in one of those remainign two or three regions where the rbeels still are poresnet and where the retretaring rebels from Alleppo moved to, the attack may be a sign that Syria now starts to go after the remains of the rebellion. Terrorising the civil population has always been part of this war, in an effort to make logistics and maintaining logistical order as hard as possibole for the enemy. Therefore the bombing of hospitals in Alleppo, maybe therefore the terror attacks against the civilian population in Idlip region. Its about increasing chaos and demoralization. If this works for the wanted effect, we most likely will see more of this, as there already has been more of this in the past years. Assad is not shy regarding doing what he thinks he miust, and Russia is not shy to let him and to protect him.

There are Iranian and Russian troops on the ground. Trumps' advisers hopefully will remind him of that. We should stay out of there, suppoort Jordan massiovely with logistical and fincial aid, and tighten the border to Turkey and the Mediterranean coast. A grim choice, I know. But the only that makes at least a remaining rest of sense to me. We also should stop all remaining support for the rebels. I do not see them winning anymore, and suppoorting them means to prolongue the war. This war is not winnable from POV of Western interest.

We should worry about Russia now setting its sights on Libya, and forming a restrengthening axis with Iran. We should also worry about Israel's detoriating strategic position.

These are all things that should be of far more concern and importance for the Europeans, than for the Americans. But I see neither the serious will, nor the needed means.

[mapuc]

The whole thing leaves a lot of questions open. Why would Assad or the Russians use Sarin now? They are winning, so why use a weapon that will most likely trigger an incalculable risk? It just doesn't make sense. Assad has pretty much nothing to gain from that but everything to loose so why would he do that? Wouldn't it be more plausible that one of the losing parties in Syria wants a US intervention and therefore staged the whole thing?
Trump could surely use a military intervention to distract from his so far disastrous presidency...but intervening in Syria for that....I don't think even he would be that stupid after the glorious outcome of Iraq.:hmmm:

Have heard some more about this issue

What I understand is that the plan(according to the journalist, expert and others) USA and its allied could be planning on creating some safe areas in Syria and USA could punish Syria by attacking its military infrastructure thereby cripple their air defense and their air force and their order of command(forgot the correct millitary words for this)

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

Chain of command.

[ikalugin]

The narrative Russian State spins is that:
- it is a horrible act of agression against Syria.
- that it would end the same way Iraq did (in my opinion Kosovo is the better comparison).
- that majority of missiles did not hit their targets, with only 23/59 allegedly hitting their targets.
- that Syrian losses were minimal.
- that we would reinforce Syrian air defense.

Facts that appear to be certain:
- we were warned.
- no Russian losses.
- we conducted a live fire air defense exercise (and other relevant ones) just before the attack occured.
- we would deploy some minor naval assets to Syria (one FFG).

[Skybird]

First, Assad can feel strong and safe and thus may conclude he can do whatever he wants, the West cannot reach him or will not dare to interfere. After all, he did it before, so did the rebels, and there never were any serious consequences, just words.

This part Assad surely is rethinking currently. And I could not repeat it again.

[ikalugin]

Depends, that attack may strengthen commitments of his allies (ie Iran) and thus improve his position. We would see.

[Nippelspanner]

Cultural enrichment happening in Stockholm, truck vs. crowd.

[Schroeder]

It seems that DAESH has found their new weapon of choice.:nope:
Much easier to obtain than explosives.:-?

[mapuc]

Even though we live in a very informal world, no one seems to know exactly how many have lost their life in this terror attack. In the beginning they said 3 dead and 8 wounded, then they changed it to 2 death and several wounded. Latest is from the hospital in Stockholm 15 wounded and one of them died from its wound at the hospital. Now it is either 3 or 4 dead and either 8, 15 or more wounded.

They got the terrorist, he was arrested north of Stockholm.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Four people were killed - 10 remain in hospital, including a child. Two are in intensive care.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39539689

[AndyJWest]

Perspective:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6095/production/_95552742_edit_chart_terrorism_wester.png

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39540371

[Nippelspanner]

Notice how news cover, reactions and aftermath of these attacks become more sparse, less intense, shorter?

We Europeans start to get used to Muslims killing us. We start to accept it, shrug, and live on - because what can we do anyways against all these happy isolated incidents that have nothing at all to do with Islam?

That's right. Nothing to see here. Move along, keep moving, pay your taxes, Allah is very akbar.

[Nippelspanner]

Perspective:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6095/production/_95552742_edit_chart_terrorism_wester.png

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39540371

Ah yes, dubious "it's all good!" statistics.
While we got rid of IRA bombings or RAF attacks, the sole terror ruling supreme today is, surprise, Muslim terrorism... (that had nothing to do with Islam, because reasons).
So tired of it.

[AndyJWest]

How exactly are these statistics 'dubious'? Do you have any reason to doubt them?

And as for them all being 'Muslims killing us', I suggest you take a look at the reason for the peak in 2011: a right-wing terrorist supposedly protesting against Islam who chose to do so by murdering Norwegian children.

[Gerald]

Swedish police have confirmed they discovered a suspect device inside the lorry which was driven into a Stockholm department store on Friday.The device was found in the driver's seat, National Police Commissioner Dan Eliasson said, but it was not known whether it was a bomb.
Mr Eliasson also said the suspect in custody was from Uzbekistan, 39, and known to security services.
The hijacked lorry was driven into Ahlens department store in the capital.
Four people were killed - 10 remain in hospital, including a child. Two are in intensive care.

The truck was driving on Queen Street, which is the most densely populated and this happened Friday 14:53 People flew in the air, killing four people and injuring dozens, then it became paralyzed city with heavy armed police and military.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39539689

https://www.thelocal.se/

[Nippelspanner]

How exactly are these statistics 'dubious'? Do you have any reason to doubt them?

And as for them all being 'Muslims killing us', I suggest you take a look at the reason for the peak in 2011: a right-wing terrorist supposedly protesting against Islam who chose to do so by murdering Norwegian children.

The usual Islam apologist rethoric.
ONE guy, compared to multiple attacks each day, all year long, thousands of victims (world wide)

As I said, Allah is very akbar, Islam means peace bla bla, there's no problem, let's continue to play dumb and let the trucks roll on.

[Rockstar]

Its the new norm, just deal with it and stop complaining.

[AndyJWest]

The usual Islam apologist rethoric.
ONE guy, compared to multiple attacks each day, all year long, thousands of victims (world wide)

As I said, Allah is very akbar, Islam means peace bla bla, there's no problem, let's continue to play dumb and let the trucks roll on.

I should know better than to attempt rational discussion with a halfwit. I'm done here, since it is quite obvious that this forum serves no useful purpose other than as a sounding-board for right-wing nutters who maybe played submarine simulation games once. If there is any hope for the genre, it certainly doesn't lie with this collection of miscellaneous educationally-deficient Trumptards, blotivated von Mises-cult followers, and incoherent tinfoil-hatters who can't conceive of any opinion other than their own as being motivated by anything other than support for Beelzibub.

[Onkel Neal]

Nipplespanner, right wing? :doh: That's news to me.

[Nippelspanner]

That's adorable.

I'm a halfwit because I'm tired of Islam shaking up the world, engulfing it in flames and blood? So be it.
If you can't see the problem of the ongoing islamization (a simple and proven demographic fact - not some "right wing fear mongering"), maybe - just maybe - it's not me who's the halfwit here.

I'm politically unbiased.
I hold views found on the conservative side, as I hold views that are very far left, while mostly I'm rather neutral or, unlike others, don't have a definite opinion on everything, since some topics aren't as black and white, so a clear yes or no/pro or against cannot be established for me. Abortion, for example. Still no definite stance on that one. Boo me.

Though, I have to admit I see and understand your general frustration regarding subsim (as in: some members, not the official stance of the page) and anything political.
Of course my last few posts were also completely half-baked and lazy, if not flat out enraging, obviously. My apologies, but the topic (Islam in general) drained me by now. Best would have been not to say anything I guess, but sometimes, the mind is weak...

[Reece]

It's very hard after 9/11 and other events not to have an opinion!!:oops:

[Rockstar]

Nipplespanner right wing? :haha: Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse?

[Jimbuna]

A British man was one of the four people killed in the Stockholm lorry attack, along with two Swedes and one Belgian.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39544482

[U505995]

I should know better than to attempt rational discussion with a halfwit. I'm done here, since it is quite obvious that this forum serves no useful purpose other than as a sounding-board for right-wing nutters who maybe played submarine simulation games once. If there is any hope for the genre, it certainly doesn't lie with this collection of miscellaneous educationally-deficient Trumptards, blotivated von Mises-cult followers, and incoherent tinfoil-hatters who can't conceive of any opinion other than their own as being motivated by anything other than support for Beelzibub.
One does not have to be a conservative, trump supporting, conspiracy theorist to be opposed to Islam. I consider myself a centrist with left and right wing views and I also despise Islam for its barbaric medieval teachings. Keep in mind I have nothing against Muslims, it's their ideology I have a problem with. From its very creation Islam has been a violent, expansionist ideology and it hasn't changed or reformed like other religions have done. If you look at what happens in Islamic countries you'll see the terrible things done in the name of Islam. Gay people are either killed (quite brutality) or imprisoned and if you are an atheist you will face the same fate. Women are essentially enslaved to their husbands. Then there is the honor killing of rape victims. I could really go on and on about it but I think I have said enough already. Do I think that all Muslims are extremists because of their backward beliefs? No, that is absurd as there are many that don't practice the religion in its purist form (particularly in the west) However I am seriously concerned about the continuous flood of predominantly Muslim refugees/migrants into Europe. They come from places that hold drastically different beliefs and we have already seen the consequences. It only takes a few radical anti-western ideologs to begin spreading their propoganda to the Muslims already living there, which is not very hard considering that Muslims tend to segregate themselves from the Native population into their own communities.

[Nippelspanner]

Excellent post, sea demon!

[Skybird]

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10124/london-mosques-churches

By Giulio Meotti, Cultural Editor for Il Foglio. According to Wikipedia that is an Italian centre-right daily paper with Wall Street Journal as its model and anglo-saxon conservatism being closest to its political positions. I assume that places it where in the German political spectrum the CSU once was residing, before Merkel destroyed all meaning of "left" and "right".

In Germany, both the Verfassungsschutz and an independent investigative journalist recently warned once again that in almost all mosques over here all preachings are radically orthodx-conservative, mostly bordering and oversdtepping the borderline to "extremism". Newly arrived migrants over here already said months ago that the preachings in German mosques are far more radical and unforgiving than in their home countries. Europe in this rehgard is very different than the US, where more "moderate" preachings still seem to be dominant.

The birth rate amongst Turkish women in Germany is much higher than amongst Turkish women in Turkey. The "stabilization" of German birth rates mostly is due to births in Muslim families, while birth rates in non-Muslim families still are so low that the population by these numbersd would decline. Its the same in france, Netherlands, Sweden and the UK. The by far fastest growing population groups in all these countries, are Muslim.

By the middle of this century, the above countries will have Muslim population shares between 25% and 50%. The often claimed argument that women living in the rich West and getting education reduced the number of babvies they get, since years does not work as advertiosed in Europe. Where European countries stabilise their demographic trends of shrinking and/or overaging, they all do so at the cost of massively boosted Islamization of their population structure.

In plain English, for the sleepy ones and the slow thinkers: we people of the occident get bred out. It takes decades, but that is what its all about. And we even got told about this strategy by aggressive Muslim politicians and national leaders since the 60s and until the very present (Erdoghan just two weeks ago repeated this threat) - and nobody believed it back then, and many still do not believe it today.

You can stick your head into the sand when you smell the smoke in the air, but your bottom nevertheless gets toasted while it is burning.

[ikalugin]

There is no greater zealot than the convert. It would take generations for the German muslim comunity to stabilise.

[Von Due]

The threat level in Norway has been raised to "likely" after a 17 year old Russian national was arrested in Oslo yesterday carrying with him what has been described as a "bomb-like device". This device was detonated safely by a police bomb squad. A few more arrests have been made today among associates of the 17 year old. No further details in the news here at the moment.

[ikalugin]

The threat level in Norway has been raised to "likely" after a 17 year old Russian national was arrested in Oslo yesterday carrying with him what has been described as a "bomb-like device". This device was detonated safely by a police bomb squad. A few more arrests have been made today among associates of the 17 year old. No further details in the news here at the moment.
Did they specify the ethnicity of said national?

[Von Due]

Did they specify the ethnicity of said national?

Only nationality. No info on ethnicity.

[ikalugin]

Only nationality. No info on ethnicity.
I see.

Well atleast his age (17 I believe?) implies that he was not a wanted man in Russia, as I remember one such man being granted refuge due to his claims of being tortured in Russia going on to organise ISIS attacks in Turkey later on.

[Von Due]

update: The 17 year old was known by police and police intel for radicalism and had been targeted for de-radicalization in the past. Apparently he was "untargeted" at some point and left to slip out of view only to reappear now.

[ikalugin]

update: The 17 year old was known by police and police intel for radicalism and had been targeted for de-radicalization in the past. Apparently he was "untargeted" at some point and left to slip out of view only to reappear now.
How did a radical minor come into Norway from Russia?

[Von Due]

How did a radical minor come into Norway from Russia?

With his family, apparently, either as asylum seekers or regular imigrants. I have no info on which. As for his radicalism, that could very well have come later in life if he was very young when they came here.

Quick update: they got here in 2010, he first showed ISIS sympathies around 2015 when people in his circles contacted police intel worried over his extreme views.

Other than that, there is little police intel want to say.

[mapuc]

The Turkish People have said yes to the new constitution giving Erdogan a lot more power.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/apr/16/turkey-referendum-recep-tayyip-erdogan-votes-presidential-powers

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

BTW, why don't we merge it with said thread anyways, as we do with other terror attacks as well once its obvious that the attacker was - surprise! - Muslim?

[Skybird]

Not a bad comment in GERMAN language on how British tolerance and appeasement policies - and Western ones - have failed and made things worse and worse. From a German mainstream newspaper that could be compared to the London Times, the FAZ.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/80-prozent/terror-von-manchester-verleugnung-des-offensichtlichen-15032459.html

Its also an attack on the cult of dismay and public self-reassurance in society that has built around the terror attacks of the past one and a half decade - a cult of self-weakening and cowardice and useless word-mumbling, instead of motivating resilience and the will to resist: even if this would mean to accept that conflict has been forced upon us. I call it the cult of slaughtering lambs: candles, singings, tears and endless reiterations how sad one feels. And suually not a single voice becomign angry, not a single hand metaphrically grabbing for the wepaoin or digging out the war axe, no blow into the horn to alarm the people, no call to arms. Nothing, just useless, endlessly patient words and "We are with you".

Since 16 years.

[Nippelspanner]

^
All I heard was basically "don't give in to hate!!" in different formulations, and 'suggestions' to "move on". Yeah. Move on...

Go tell that to the families of the victims, idiots. :/\\!!

[Skybird]

Egyptian peace activists slaughter wicked Christians in rescue of a bus filled with evil and badness 250 km south of Cairo. The count so far says 15 morons were killed, at least two dozens wounded, well-deserved. That will teach them. Its the third big victory in recent weeks that have seen four dozen infidels going to hell. Praised be the great deceiver! :yeah:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40059307

[Cybermat47]

Skybird, Nipplespanner, while I can't say I entirely agree with you, I can definitely understand where you're coming from.

For many of us, our first substantial knowledge of Islam came when a plane hijacked by Islamists slammed into 1 WTC.

Since then, every action inspired by Islam with a large impact has been violent and barbaric.

There are many who identify as Muslims who fight ISIS, but of course, you could view them as not being true Muslims, in the same way someone can call themselves Christian, but then purposefully break one of the 10 Commandments with no regrets.

I would say that there are cases where appeasement has taken priority over safety.

Sadly, with all the pointless bickering among politicians that we've grown used to, I doubt we'll ever get a perfect way to prevent terrorism.

However, ISIS has made it clear that they will settle for nothing less than world domination. This laughable goal has sentenced them to extinction. The more they attack us, the more we will attack them.

[Skybird]

Bus attack in Egypt now has left 25 dead. Many patients still fighting for their lives.

[Skybird]

Skybird, Nipplespanner, while I can't say I entirely agree with you, I can definitely understand where you're coming from.

For many of us, our first substantial knowledge of Islam came when a plane hijacked by Islamists slammed into 1 WTC.

Since then, every action inspired by Islam with a large impact has been violent and barbaric.

There are many who identify as Muslims who fight ISIS, but of course, you could view them as not being true Muslims, in the same way someone can call themselves Christian, but then purposefully break one of the 10 Commandments with no regrets.

I would say that there are cases where appeasement has taken priority over safety.

Sadly, with all the pointless bickering among politicians that we've grown used to, I doubt we'll ever get a perfect way to prevent terrorism.

However, ISIS has made it clear that they will settle for nothing less than world domination. This laughable goal has sentenced them to extinction. The more they attack us, the more we will attack them.
IS is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is the content of the ideology named "Islam".

It always was like this.

[Von Due]

It always was like this.

Only when you willfully or out of ignorance ignore the periods when it wasn't like this...

Are they a problem? Of course they are. Has this been a continuous problem the last 1200 years? Not even close. The last 50 year? Yes it has been a problem.

[Skybird]

No other relgion has waged so many wars against itself, as Islam.

No other relgion has waged so many wars against other religions, as Islam.

No other religion has broken and destroyed so many foreign local cultures in places it attacked in wars of aggression, as Islam.

No other religion defends persecution of apostates and infidels actively until today as if it still were the medieval, like Islam does until today.

No other religion has mounted such a stockpile of dead bodies and has committed so many genocides in territories it conquered, as Islam.

No other relgion stones women to death for adultry if they fled from their husband whipping them, or punish girls that committed the crime to get raped. - Hindus come closer to it than others, with their widow burning and daughter killing and general dispise for females. All that is reality in India until today.

The West's legal order rules that man and woman are equal before the law. Islam's laws say that women must obey males, and that their voice at legal disputes and witness confessions shall count only half as much as that of a male.

The ignorrant one here is you, ikalugin. Unfortunately, you stand for the majority consensus on how to distort history and to gloss over Islam's cruel nature. Peace? Yes - under the sword of the prophet. Tolerance? Yes, as long as this accepts protecion money payments and prograom and ithheld legal rights for infidels of the book, while all others have to be killed. Coexistence? Only as long as Islam still is not strong enough again to take it all.

[Von Due]

No other relgion has waged so many wars against other rlegions, as Islam.

No other religion has broken and destroyed so many foreign local cultures in places it attacked in wars of aggression, as Islam.

No other religion has mounted such a stockpile of dead bodies and has committed so many genocides in territories it conquered, as Islam.



Are you for real? Christianity destroyed cultures in North America, South America and Africa. You are perfectly aware of this. North Africa I hear you say? North African cultures like the Egyptian had been dead for hundreds of years before Islam was founded. The entire Europe saw pretty much every culture eradicated by Christianity.

You know all this, Skybird.

Are you suggesting none of this ever happened or are you jumping back to start with the reoccurring "let's not talk about old times"?