PERFECT SIM! What can we make out of SH5/SH3?

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by rik007

No problem at all. As far as a blaim goes: the devs could have structured the code more so SH3 could have been reused but they were undoubtedly under time-pressure and other restrictions. Still SH3 remains the top-game. It should have been the base for the sequel. The game-engine should then have been preserved as it has a good balance. Of course debugged and improved while the eye-candy could then have been added as well as all the other feauture we all miss.

But of course I'm dreaming now. Probably the maximum is that we can export the 3D objects from SH5 into 3D Max - as already achieved - and import them into SH3. After playing for some time with SH5 my opinion is that it will never fly. Maybe I should try it again but I rather spent my time in campaigning in SH3.

That's THE idea....

[urfisch]

yep...this is the maximum. but we also may get some fx-effects from sh5 into sh3. fire, smoke, etc...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JCWolf

I think he meant sh5 as Reece says!

No, he is on record saying SH5 is the best thing since sliced bread and anything SH3 is garbage. I can understand his anger at the people who trolled the SH5 boards with nothing but complaints, but that doesn't mean he needs to come here and do the same. What makes it worse is that he is not someone who ever discusses the situation - he only makes limited one-time statements such as the one in this thread.

A favorite quote from Benjamin Franklin, which in my opinion applies to him perfectly: "Praise-All and Blame-All are two blockheads".

[rik007]

Originally Posted by urfisch

yep...this is the maximum. but we also may get some fx-effects from sh5 into sh3. fire, smoke, etc...

Urfisch, Robin40,

That is still a lot of work. Of course we do not get a better sim but possibly a more fancy one. I do not consider putting my time into an attempt... Although I will have a glance like everybody does at its own.

Rik

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Actually your questions had already a very solid response to our avail: The one which will probably rank first as most underrated submarine simulation in history ... Silent Hunter 4

It is the perfect balance between the SH5 eyecandy and the SH3 gameplay, and has potential to surpass them both in their respective strong areas if developed hard enough. But there it is, collecting dust in many people's shelf, and far away from the attention of most of the talented modders. If it had received half the dedication and talent that SH5 already has, we would no doubt have the best ever submarine simulations.

I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping.

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.

Originally Posted by privateer

.
The old slugfests between SH3 - SH4 seem to be a thing of the past.

I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here,..... here...... and here....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.

Originally Posted by Chaplain Lovejoy

Have been playing SH4 exclusively for several weeks, but no longer. The reason: too many CTDs (fully patched, with appropriate RFB mods).

CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

I see SH4 getting attention real soon.
Many Modders waited for the release of SH5 as it was 'Highly Modifiable".
What we didn't know was you can't add PROPER Units.
By proper I mean new Units done right.
Not cfg trickery that mostly only works for a few additional Units.
Just what I want to do, Hunt the SAME Units Over and Over!
While I work on a solution to SH5 Unit imports?
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.

[Reece]

Yes I can vouch that Ducimus' Nine Delta Two was an excellent add-on for SH4, the only thing I missed was the SH3 campaign style, German ports and the Atlantic.

privateer said:
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.

Very Interesting!

[rik007]

I do not see that by adding some units to SH5 something actually changes in the situation but I do not think that Privateer means that.

One of the aspects of SH4 what should be improved are the voices which do sound bad in SH4 as they are English. I had some crazy idea to do them over. A combined mod with contribution of well known modders of the community.

[makman94]

with the ubi trying to turn a whole community (which is full of passioned sub simulator fans) only to some 2d image editors or 3d importers-exporters ....you will all believe ,at the end , that the 'goal' is to manage to import some 3d models ingame or to 'heal' sh5's bugs...
well ,this is not healthy modding gentlemen !
from day one they should have give to modders tools for importing-exporting...this is not big deal and IS NOT CHANGING THE GAME and eventually is not MODDING the game .there is no difference at the game itself if you have to sink 10 different ships or...200 ships .
why they are not giving the tools ? i know the answer but i can't (and don't want ) to say about it in public but it is not so hard to think about the reason.(and i also believe that Skawjer and Jscones is the worst nightmare the guys at ubi-romania have )
sh5 brings nothing new in its code and maybe TDW believes that scripts can 'save' ubi's crap again .why 'crap'? becuase it is not a sub sim(also sh3 and sh4 are not sims...the only thing that is simulated is the manual targeting) ...it is a game for kids with some...'sub' in its files.this is the big fail of sh5 (not the bugs and neither the drm) ...it 'betrates' the last 'hopes' to see a SIMULATOR from ubi-romania...they choosed the easy way(a simple sub game) just to get some money in their pockets
...sh5...a ''5'' that is only a shame for a 2010 game. if you want to see pround ''5''s look at resident evil 5 or at gran turismo 5 ....these are real ''5''s from games fifth sequels on 2010 !

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

..... Don't waste your time on SH3....the engine is getting pushed pretty near it's limits but SH5 is just an infant and we have the ability to script - which means endless possibilities .....

@for TDW(really no offence to you ,although, it may seems so):

can 'your' scripts add PROPER and complete physics to ships-subs that devs didn't add to sh5's code ?

can 'your' scripts add a proper and complete model for the sound's travelling in water or a complete simulation of sonarman's station that devs didn't add to sh5's code ?

can 'your' scripts add a correct code for making the sensors works
properly at last that devs didn't fix neither to sh3's neither to sh4's and now neither to sh5's code? wtf,are doing these guys...ruining things?at each sequel are just getting...worst (in case that you ''miss'' it ,sensors NEVER worked correct-night vampires- becuase of bad programming .... tell me,did you managed to solve this at your IRAI mod?)

can 'your' scripts add a complete code for having a working radar that devs didn't add to sh5's code?(radar....it is like a ..joke even to mention it)

and there are more to add to this list...
if i am wrong at this and devs have actually add something to sh5's code well ...please somebody ask them to tell us (and why not ..to advertise their work) at last what exactly they have add !i also want to know but ...THEY ARE NOT SAYING (is it...secret?)!

you see, TDW,i believe that the sh5 is actually the waste of time ... it needs too much work for nothing hot at the end..nothing ..new!
now ,if i am wrong, and 'your' scripts can add the aboves then ...i take back everything i said and i will agree and say the same thing with you:''yes,there is a potential to this game'' but if 'your' scripts can't add the aboves....where is that potential that you see ?to the nicer...graphics ,to the Kpt 'Forest Gump' or to the engine room ? (in which, btw,are allready totally lose by Flakmonkey's or Tomi's engines)
and ,now , that the 'road' is open at sh3 for editing the executables (have a look at H.Sie's thread) , i am sure that you can make 'miracles' with your knowledge .

ps: happy new year to every subsimer with health and smiles !

[h.sie]

@Makman94: Thanks for mentioning "my" thread. But with assembler and without SDK one can only change / add little things. No big deal is possible (for me).

I agree in many aspects you mentioned in your post above, but why are we both wasting our time with a - as you said - sub 'game' , since it is clear that we'll never get a sim that satisfies our wishes? would we both play if there were a perfect subsimulator? I doubt that.

[urfisch]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping.

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.



I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here,..... here...... and here....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.



CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

i feel ashamed, never seen this...an beeing honest, never expected this! REALLY great work ducimus! maybe we should convince some people from sh5 modding going back to sh4?

[Hitman]

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ...

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Hitman

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ...

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

I'm going on to start a OM campaign plus Real Environment and stock scope GUI

But I love sh3 crew management and are bored of the sh4 one anyway

Maybe is there a mod that transfers sh3 crew mng to sh4?

[Sailor Steve]

Really? I hate having to drag the little guys back and forth every four hours. I do it anyway because I feel guilty or feel like I'm cheating if I don't, but SH4's auto-crew is much more realistic. That's the way they do it in real life.