PERFECT SIM! What can we make out of SH5/SH3?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Actually your questions had already a very solid response to our avail: The one which will probably rank first as most underrated submarine simulation in history ... Silent Hunter 4

It is the perfect balance between the SH5 eyecandy and the SH3 gameplay, and has potential to surpass them both in their respective strong areas if developed hard enough. But there it is, collecting dust in many people's shelf, and far away from the attention of most of the talented modders. If it had received half the dedication and talent that SH5 already has, we would no doubt have the best ever submarine simulations.

I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping.

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.

Originally Posted by privateer

.
The old slugfests between SH3 - SH4 seem to be a thing of the past.

I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here,..... here...... and here....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.

Originally Posted by Chaplain Lovejoy

Have been playing SH4 exclusively for several weeks, but no longer. The reason: too many CTDs (fully patched, with appropriate RFB mods).

CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

I see SH4 getting attention real soon.
Many Modders waited for the release of SH5 as it was 'Highly Modifiable".
What we didn't know was you can't add PROPER Units.
By proper I mean new Units done right.
Not cfg trickery that mostly only works for a few additional Units.
Just what I want to do, Hunt the SAME Units Over and Over!
While I work on a solution to SH5 Unit imports?
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.

[Reece]

Yes I can vouch that Ducimus' Nine Delta Two was an excellent add-on for SH4, the only thing I missed was the SH3 campaign style, German ports and the Atlantic.

privateer said:
I'm also looking at somethings in the area of SH4.

Very Interesting!

[rik007]

I do not see that by adding some units to SH5 something actually changes in the situation but I do not think that Privateer means that.

One of the aspects of SH4 what should be improved are the voices which do sound bad in SH4 as they are English. I had some crazy idea to do them over. A combined mod with contribution of well known modders of the community.

[urfisch]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I have to agree in the stongest possible terms. SH4 has far too many things going for it for me to list in a simple response. Aside from being faster loading then both SH3, and SH5, and being two simulations wrapped into one, and having what's tantamount to an SDK (S3D editor was designed for SH4) I offer one simple example....some bump mapping.

But back to being ignored, I think the two biggest reasons why it's ignored in general is because:

1.) It had a real crappy release. Crappy release's create stigma's. Even if all issues are corrected, it will fight this stigma for the rest of its life.

2.)It's considered a fleet boat only game, with the uboats as just an "add on" and not a full game. Fact of the matter is, most people on subsim are fans of uboats, and when talking sub sim's, the only ones that exist are SH3, and SH5. As the original post of this thread demonstrated by the lack of listing SH4.



I believe it is. I could be mistaken, but I think we've all moved on, or at least backed up enough away from it all to have more clear and level heads. The "slugfest" is another reason why SH4 is largely ignored.

Now, i'm pretty sure i have a reputation as being a "Mr fleet boat fanboy, and Uboats are for nazi's", and people have probably forgotten that I played SH3 for a number of years and modded for it, even being on the GWX team for a short time - but... i did start to work on uboat stuff for SH4. Also, largely ignored, and now abandoned. Burnout's a bitch. I just ain't modding in this large scale anymore. But, it shows what's possible in SH4:

Screenshot threads:
Here,..... here...... and here....

The screenshots shown in the above links, i think show that its entirely possible to make a complete uboat campaign. The framework is there, all it needs is someone or some people to put some meat on the bones.



CTD's are subjective to individual systems (OS, drivers, hardware, etc), and the data integrity of the installed game. I've been mucking about with SH4 for a long time, and the only time I've seen a CTD, is when *I* the modder did something stupid. Thats not to say SH4 as a platform is error free, but it is to say that the game doesn't crash a lot, infact id say crash's are rare, unless its a mod blunder of one sort or another.

i feel ashamed, never seen this...an beeing honest, never expected this! REALLY great work ducimus! maybe we should convince some people from sh5 modding going back to sh4?

[Hitman]

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ...

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Hitman

The stuff showcased by Ducimus is telling enough of good SH4 can be with some dedicated work. It's so sad that many people didn't even know it for not having had interest in looking through the SH4 forums ...

Anyway, we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3

In its current status, with the campaign stuff done by Lurker, and the other "difficult" area (The GUI) cracked by Karamazov, I bet that a dedicated team of modders could easily add the needed finishing touches easily and provide the best ever uboat simulation. Just extend all details that Ducimus has added the IXD2 of 9Delta2 to all other UBoats, and some minor stuff, and there you go!

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

Yes! I have OM and is a really great mod, with a future I don´t see in SH5. Adding the interios and crews (as Nine Delta Two by Ducimus), an a SH4 Commander or similar, and other candy stuff as SH3 (flags on subs, pennants, variety of uniforms, sounds, etc.), probably set out the classic SH3.

I continue to play SH3 because SH3 Commander, but I play OM also, and is a fantastic experience.

Operation Monsun, OMEGU and Nine delta Two integrated could be an awesome "combimod". (I´m thinking to work in the OM campaign for my use, I want to transfer the OM campaign and other stuff in 9D2, making a 92D ATO mod. (only with the IXD sub...). If I arrive to a good result, I´ll request the authorizations from Lurker and Ducimus and I´ll publish the mod.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

I'm going on to start a OM campaign plus Real Environment and stock scope GUI

But I love sh3 crew management and are bored of the sh4 one anyway

Maybe is there a mod that transfers sh3 crew mng to sh4?

[Sailor Steve]

Really? I hate having to drag the little guys back and forth every four hours. I do it anyway because I feel guilty or feel like I'm cheating if I don't, but SH4's auto-crew is much more realistic. That's the way they do it in real life.

[Robin40]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Really? I hate having to drag the little guys back and forth every four hours. I do it anyway because I feel guilty or feel like I'm cheating if I don't, but SH4's auto-crew is much more realistic. That's the way they do it in real life.

you don't have to do it if you activate the 8 hour fatigue GWX mod

The GWX team believes we have found an approach that allows an intuitive approach to managing crew fatigue and stress while limiting the need to have the player intervene in the daily operation of the U-boat in line with real world U-boat operations. In this case, ―fatigue‖reflects the need for sleep and the degradation of human efficiency in a sleep-deprived state as well as ―stress,‖which is what the military called ―battle fatigue‖during World War II and what is known today as ―combat stress reaction.

GWX Manual

[Schwieger]

Originally Posted by Robin40

I'm going on to start a OM campaign plus Real Environment and stock scope GUI

But I love sh3 crew management and are bored of the sh4 one anyway

Maybe is there a mod that transfers sh3 crew mng to sh4?

Keep the SH4 crew management, but transfer the SH3 damage control system over..

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Hitman

we have already Lurker's excellent Operation Monsoon, which probably is still ignored by many people because of its name: They think it is an "Indian Ocean Only" mod, which is not true. OM already covers the whole 1939-45 in ALL teathers, from the Arctic waters to the Black sea, and Indian Ocean, and of course the whole Atlantic and Mediterranean. It's crazy that such an amazing mod is largely ignored by many SH3 users who also have the SH4 disc lying around and not installed For those of you that do not know, it even has added most of IABL ships, and many SH3 ones, so there is a HUGE variety of units around, something SH3 users can only dream of with 4GB+ of memory. And not just that, it also features most UBoat types with proper characteristics, including minelayers!!! And with no need to use "existing slots" as in SH3

QFE.

[Myxale]

Wow, Duci, I wasn't even aware!

I got SH4 way back out of solidarity to Ubi, and the Genre, but I never really got into it, since I'm not much of a Fleet-Boater.

And combing the cluttered SH4 Forums was kinda a pain. And I didn't have the time to Start following yet another Modding endeavor to the point of understanding it like i do SH3.

But you're right of course; It really seems that we can easier put SH3 into SH4 that in SH5.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Myxale

Wow, Duci, I wasn't even aware!

After all the past drama between mod groups and fan groups, it's not surprising and understandable.

I got SH4 way back out of solidarity to Ubi, and the Genre, but I never really got into it, since I'm not much of a Fleet-Boater.

I did too. Infact, i bought the game twice (D2D first go around). As for being a "fleet boater", think of fleet boats as being a Type 9 on steroids. If your a type 9 fan, it's an easy transition. In fact, it will spoil you. If your a type 7 fan, it wouldn't hold much interest.

And combing the cluttered SH4 Forums was kinda a pain. And I didn't have the time to Start following yet another Modding endeavor to the point of understanding it like i do SH3.

A few details like Damage control is different, as is the UI. But the overall concepts and details of the simulation remain unchanged. Much of what you know and understand in SH3, is applicable to SH4.

But you're right of course; It really seems that we can easier put SH3 into SH4 that in SH5.

SH4 is however, not without its own set of issues. I just want to make sure that is understood. SH5 is worse in the "issues" department because it takes some of the unresolved issues in SH4, and add's its own on top of that. So in SH5, you have double the bugginess, double the "fun". What's worse is some of the fixes developed in SH4, no longer work in SH5. On top of that i've read that the statemachineCtr no longer works in SH5. That's a big kick in the nuts if you ask me.

At any rate, its my personal opinion that technology has moved away from SH3 as a game engine. There won't be any new submarine sim's for a very long time. Maybe never. So your left with SH4 or SH5 as a platform. (unless you don't mind "compatiblity modes" ) The former of which uses good ole, workable dat files, (as opposed to granny), has DDS texture compression, is a campaign writers wet dream ( I suppose SH5 is too, but its much harder to understand), and doesn't include a DRM.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi fellows shipmates,

As i follow that thread without intervention i could see a lot of humor emerging from it and i said to my self why not adding an epitaph for sH5 in my mod

RIP Sh5 the game that kill the franchise forever, sorry guys i could resist

Best regards Hans