PERFECT SIM! What can we make out of SH5/SH3? - Page 4

JCWolf · 12-31-10, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!

Reece my friend...

long time no see !

agree with your post totally.

JScones · 12-31-10, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!

Yes, that's what I don't understand. Logic would suggest that you'd want to get a solid foundation first before building up into the lofty heights, yet with SH5 we're seeing extensions being built upon extensions. A shame, and with that approach it won't take long before the house of cards starts to fall. I mean, if you are new to SH5 now, there's no simple "add this one mod first as a base to get yourself stable, then choose what you want from this, this, this and this..."; it's just "good luck to ya, here's my random mods list which amazingly works fine for me...but ymmv. Someone will be along shortly to post a completely different mods list for ya".

A far better approach would have been, in the known absence of Ubisoft, to develop an unofficial community v1.3 "patch" that focused solely on fixing the bugs, at least those that could be "fixed" by modders. No subjective content, just fixes.

Yet after nine months we still have largely disparate and peripheral mods, most of which now are mere updates to mods that have been around for most of those nine months; in other words, no recent real big tangible (ie delivered, not just spoken of) breakthroughs (although the additional merchants is a nice start).

What I find poignant is that some of the most staunch defenders of SH5 before its release are now nowhere to be seen. Either they love the game so much that they play it 24/7 and don't have time for a break, or they've silently sunk below the waves. The clock keeps ticking...

Reece · 12-31-10, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCWolf

Reece my friend...

long time no see !

Good to see you again too, and you as well Jaesen, hope you both had a good Christmas and wish you both a Happy New Year.

rik007 · 12-31-10, 09:42 AM

At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they didnot reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The immersion in SH3 with GWX and other mods such as FM New Interior remains on top. Because it is simple and gives you the best feeling how it should have been some 70 years ago.

My idea (or dream) is that if UBI releases the source-code and tooling for SH3 that we could add the so long missed Wolfpacks, real surface attacks and fixes for the long very well known list of bugs. I'm sure we then will have the ultimate sim.

I wish you all that that happens in 2011 and that the stuck in the middle with the SH-series will end as well as the silence from Ubi. Happy 2011!

Hitman · 12-31-10, 09:48 AM

Quote:

A far better approach would have been, in the known absence of Ubisoft, to develop an unofficial community v1.3 "patch" that focused solely on fixing the bugs, at least those that could be "fixed" by modders. No subjective content, just fixes.

Yup, that's exactly what Webster did for SH4 with his "Game Fixes Only" mod, and it was simply an excellent idea

but it sadly lacked success as a "common ground base" because by the time it was complete, many people had not waited and there were already lots of mods around.

Seems that lesson was -like many others- again not learned for SH5

BigBANGtheory · 01-01-11, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Agree 100%, I have installed SH5 and although there are some fantastic mods the underlying problems of bugs and game play still exist, I would like to see a huge effort in fixing the bugs and releasing an unofficial patch, then start modding on this new version, rather than everyone working around these bugs, IMO!!

This would make a lot of sense after the SH5 Mega-mod is available, since clearly some of the gameplay/bug problems have been fixed or partially fixed.

Stiebler · 01-01-11, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they did not reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4.

The problem was that the development team kept changing between SH3/4/5, and the later devs had difficulty understanding the code of their predecessors. This was stated specifically by one of the ex-devs in the SH5 main thread at SubSim, who used the word 'impossible' to describe the likelihood of any further development of SH5 from the same code base.

I pointed up in the same thread that, logically, this meant that there could never have been any extension pack planned for SH5, despite widespread belief among game players that this was coming next. No one denied the assertion.

You really cannot blame the devs. The most casual survey of threads for SH3, SH4 and SH5 shows that the strongest requirement among the great majority of players is for improved graphics and pointless graphical detail (repositioned flags, repainted propellers, that kind of trivia). Who cares about game play? (excepting a few eccentrics, presumably including the readers of this thread.) The great majority got the logical extension of what they wanted in the end, with SH5. Just sail round and round your home port, admiring the scenery.

Quote:

My idea (or dream) is that if UBI releases the source-code and tooling for SH3...

Why should they?
You might offer to pay for the code, though. But then, it is unlikely that anyone can understand it now, if the original devs could not.

Stiebler.

tonschk · 01-01-11, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rik007

At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they didnot reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The immersion in SH3 with GWX and other mods such as FM New Interior remains on top. Because it is simple and gives you the best feeling how it should have been some 70 years ago.

At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH3. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim

Sailor Steve · 01-01-11, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk

Everybody is disappointed by SH3.

Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.

Quote:

Sigs that are political or religous in nature may only be displayed in General Topics. Only naval-oriented sigs are allowed in the naval and game forums.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq....ure_image_faqs

Jimbuna · 01-01-11, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq....ure_image_faqs

Careful Steve, it is just possible his forum password has been 'compromised' AGAIN and somebody is posting using his name

rik007 · 01-02-11, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

The problem was that the development team kept changing between SH3/4/5, and the later devs had difficulty understanding the code of their predecessors. This was stated specifically by one of the ex-devs in the SH5 main thread at SubSim, who used the word 'impossible' to describe the likelihood of any further development of SH5 from the same code base.

I pointed up in the same thread that, logically, this meant that there could never have been any extension pack planned for SH5, despite widespread belief among game players that this was coming next. No one denied the assertion.

You really cannot blame the devs. The most casual survey of threads for SH3, SH4 and SH5 shows that the strongest requirement among the great majority of players is for improved graphics and pointless graphical detail (repositioned flags, repainted propellers, that kind of trivia). Who cares about game play? (excepting a few eccentrics, presumably including the readers of this thread.) The great majority got the logical extension of what they wanted in the end, with SH5. Just sail round and round your home port, admiring the scenery.

Why should they?
You might offer to pay for the code, though. But then, it is unlikely that anyone can understand it now, if the original devs could not.

Stiebler.

I didnot know & it is a pitty. I do not blame the devs. I understood that development of DirectX prohibited further development of the original code not that it was unstructeredly build and could not be understood anymore. Even though the algorithms could have been reused at least.

Reece · 01-02-11, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Not everybody. Only you.

Oh, and I've refrained from mentioning it since in the SH5 forums I'm only a visitory, but since you've decided to make yourself annoying here I think it's time to suggest you read the rules on sig.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq....ure_image_faqs

Easy does it Policeman Steve, I think it is a typo, I think he meant SH5, if so I would agree!

Stiebler · 01-02-11, 07:47 AM

@Rik007:

I said in my post above:

Quote:

You really cannot blame the devs.

Sorry Rik, I intended to use the word 'you' as an impersonal plural, as in 'One really cannot blame the devs.'

I did not intend to refer to you personally.

Stiebler.

rik007 · 01-03-11, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

@Rik007:

I said in my post above: Sorry Rik, I intended to use the word 'you' as an impersonal plural, as in 'One really cannot blame the devs.'

I did not intend to refer to you personally.

Stiebler.

No problem at all. As far as a blaim goes: the devs could have structured the code more so SH3 could have been reused but they were undoubtedly under time-pressure and other restrictions. Still SH3 remains the top-game. It should have been the base for the sequel. The game-engine should then have been preserved as it has a good balance. Of course debugged and improved while the eye-candy could then have been added as well as all the other feauture we all miss.

But of course I'm dreaming now. Probably the maximum is that we can export the 3D objects from SH5 into 3D Max - as already achieved - and import them into SH3. After playing for some time with SH5 my opinion is that it will never fly. Maybe I should try it again but I rather spent my time in campaigning in SH3.

JCWolf · 01-03-11, 02:55 AM

Oops......

I think he meant sh5 as Reece says!

Thought his sig really is a political argumentation and might even be considered a offense to others and lack of respect for a country.

I think Steve just targeted his Sig, I Would do the same, this sig is
of very bad taste.

01-03-11, 02:55 AM	#60
JCWolf Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Spain , Crossing Gibraltar! Posts: 2,292 Downloads: 202 Uploads: 1	Oops...... I think he meant sh5 as Reece says! Thought his sig really is a political argumentation and might even be considered a offense to others and lack of respect for a country. I think Steve just targeted his Sig, I Would do the same, this sig is of very bad taste. __________________ JCWolf Mediafire SHIII Page User name : JCWolf Password : stefre@jcm

12-31-10, 09:42 AM	#49
rik007 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 785 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 0	At the last day of the year we now can all look back. Everybody is disappointed by SH5. Ubi had everything to make that the perfect Sim. I never understood why they didnot reuse SH3 as a base for SH5 or even SH4. The immersion in SH3 with GWX and other mods such as FM New Interior remains on top. Because it is simple and gives you the best feeling how it should have been some 70 years ago. My idea (or dream) is that if UBI releases the source-code and tooling for SH3 that we could add the so long missed Wolfpacks, real surface attacks and fixes for the long very well known list of bugs. I'm sure we then will have the ultimate sim. I wish you all that that happens in 2011 and that the stuck in the middle with the SH-series will end as well as the silence from Ubi. Happy 2011!