2016 US Presidential election thread

[Oberon]

Beginning to look that way :yep:

A sad indication of the state of affairs in the US. :doh:

[August]

So then, President Clinton. :yep:

We'll see.

[Skybird]

Trumps success can be explained, and it is not too difficult. He poses against political correctness, serves the sentiments of those who think the US does not get the recognition and respect in the world anymore that it deserves, and claims to be immune againmst getting owned by big money for he has his own already, thus not being prone to getting further corrupted by lobbies and billionaires.

Honestly said, I do not think Clinton is better. She may be different, and certainly far more left, but I see her as foul an apple as Trump. I thus will not say she is "the lesser of two evils". The harms she will do, are only different form those that Trump will do - but as severe.

The founding fathers do not stop to rotate in their graves these days. One can only cry over what has become of the intentions.

[AVGWarhawk]

So then, President Clinton. :yep:

It appears to be the direction this will take. However, let the debates between the two begin. Hillary needs to grasp what she has learned over the years in the political light and use it to her advantage. Trump needs to stop with feel good "this will be great" cheer leading and come up with real solutions to real problems.

[Mr Quatro]

Okay. is it time for predictions?

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and predict that Donald Trump will win the GOP nomination and that Hillary Clinton will win the democrat's nomination to make it a Trump vs Clinton race for the white house. :D

Pretty good predictions :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Okay. is it time for predictions?

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and predict that Donald Trump will win the GOP nomination and that Hillary Clinton will win the democrat's nomination to make it a Trump vs Clinton race for the white house. :D

Pretty good predictions :yeah:

I think there are a few who posted similarly earlier on in this thread :)

[Mr Quatro]

I was just kidding Jim :D

[Bilge_Rat]

so now the fun begins. Polls have Clinton 13 points ahead of Trump, but that is irrelevant, the only number that matters is 271+ electoral votes.

There are various maps around, I picked a moderate projection:

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/content/images//2016_03_31_pres_600.png

Some states will never be in play, Texas will always vote Red and California will always go Blue.

To win, Trump has to pick up some key battle ground states, i.e.: Florida+North Carolina+Virginia+Ohio and one of Iowa/Colorado or Nevada. Its doable but tricky.

[nikimcbee]

So this is the beginning of the Idiocracy prophecy.

Subsim is kool, you know,
cuz its got what gamerz krave...electrolights.

[Buddahaid]

Drink your Brawndo. It has electrolytes.

[nikimcbee]

Drink your Brawndo. It has electrolytes.


I'll pour it into my gas tank in my car, it should run better.:har::dead:

[vienna]

so now the fun begins. Polls have Clinton 13 points ahead of Trump, but that is irrelevant, the only number that matters is 271+ electoral votes.

There are various maps around, I picked a moderate projection:

....

Some states will never be in play, Texas will always vote Red and California will always go Blue.

To win, Trump has to pick up some key battle ground states, i.e.: Florida+North Carolina+Virginia+Ohio and one of Iowa/Colorado or Nevada. Its doable but tricky.


Here is a Washington Post article on the Electoral College prospects for the upcoming Presidential election:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

The GOP had a problem the last go round in 2012; in spite of efforts by Cheney and Rove to try to game the electoral vote, the GOP lost big in the electoral college with Obama getting just under 62% of the total votes cast in the College. I remember the sight of Cheney and Rove in fits of frustration as the election results came in and it was apparent Romney wasn't even going to get anywhere near the Electoral votes needed to make the election a close race. What is even more interesting is Obama actually fell in the percentage of votes cast; his previous share was just under 68% of the total cast. Contrast this with GWB who had a 50.4% share in 2000 and increased his share to 53.2% in 2004. It will be interesting in November...


<O>

[Torplexed]

Clinton should proceed carefully. Her record with respect to her own pride and ego is not good. She's already underestimated Bernie. It would be a huge mistake to do the same with Trump.

I have a feeling all it will take is one major terrorist attack on this country between now and the election and Trump is the next president.

[Skybird]

Just have read this German translation, then went, searched and found the English original:

LINK - 7 Reasons why Trump could really win in Novembre (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-general-election_us_57292c0ee4b0bc9cb0451202)

Mahlzeit, wohl bekomm's.

[Nippelspanner]

I find it quite disturbing that the US, the mightiest country of the world, with the most elite universities etc... is about to elect Hillary or Trump as POTUS.

How is that even possible?
Why is that the best you guys can come up with?
I just... I don't understand. :doh:

Gotta admit, I'm kinda scared.
No matter how that ends, it is going to be really, really sad.

[Jimbuna]

I was just kidding Jim :D

Rgr that matey, absolutely no foul :sunny:

[Torplexed]

I find it quite disturbing that the US, the mightiest country of the world, with the most elite universities etc... is about to elect Hillary or Trump as POTUS.

How is that even possible?
Why is that the best you guys can come up with?
I just... I don't understand. :doh:

Gotta admit, I'm kinda scared.
No matter how that ends, it is going to be really, really sad.

It's a sad fact that the nature of the American electoral process pushes heavily toward two parties. And those two parties push heavily to be viable. If 2016 is the disaster widely expected for the GOP, count on seeing something very different from what we’d had.

The ugly and sudden revolt of the Republican base from its elites this past year means something, and the result has been Trump, who should have been an amusing footnote in electoral history by now.

While this election has been bizarre and wrenching enough, it’s likely it will be the beginning of a rare re-structuring of the political parties themselves. Assuming a Hillary victory, I’m guessing you will see a slow teeth-gritting, gear-grinding shift of the GOP elite into the Democratic party. Hillary will give them the best offer available. But it will come at a cost, for sure.

The more interesting question is what happens to the GOP base? I think they will inherit what’s left of the GOP, but it will be a non-viable minority. It seems to me their only choice then would be to shed some of their social-issues fervor and go more broadly populist in a way that attracts some non-trivial portion of the Bernie voters. While this makes sense on paper, I confess it’s beyond my capacity to actually visualize.

[Oberon]

To be fair, the US does have a system of checks and balances so that any one president can't radically alter the structure of the country. There are executive orders, but they can only get you so far and if you really screw things up then you can be removed via impeachment.
I don't think Trump will be as crazed as president is many make him out to be, because his actual power will be quite limited in many places, as Obama put it "I'm the President of the United States and I can't do anything."
However the global viewpoint of the US will hit a point even lower than it did during George W Bush's tenure, and it's going to make a lot of people inside and outside of America despair of the American political system...well...despair more.

[Skybird]

The ugly and sudden revolt of the Republican base from its elites this past year means something, and the result has been Trump,

Same can and must be said about Sanders and the Democrats. Clinton is the petrified monument of the political establishment. Sanders growing influence also mean something, and it is no good news for said establishment.

Demographically, the iminent future for the US looks as if it will increase the pace at which it swings to the left side of the spectrum, and in the long run I think this holds truth even if Trump wins - Trump comes, Trump goes again one day, but the general trend remains. The typical voter reservoir for the Republicans is shrinkling since years, for naturla and biological reasons. Most newcomers to the US, are leaning left and socialist, so to the side of the Democrats. And this will make the Democratric Party even more left as it already is. This also is part of the explanation why there is panic in the Repubölican establishment: they would need new voter reservpirs to replace the losses from their traditional voters "dying out" slowly - and there is no idea of where to get these and remaining loyal to traditional Republican views. Trump is a symptom for this desperation. So the Reps will become more radical and eccentric in the future - "Trumpic", in other words, or they will learn their lesson and swallow hard and turn more socialist, trying to fish in nthe pool of Democrats ("Merkelianism").

But be warned what can come form this,America: Merkel has systematically hijacked all rivalling partie'S core elements of poltical elements, and seized them for herself, and has systematically annihilated any opposition inside her party to her rulership. The result is ten years of stagnation, a tiotal loss of poltical discirmination and differenc ebetween parties - and thus the raise of more radical politcal movements like the AfD that may lack competence and insight, but are successfully by posing as the lost vpoice of the people, collecting all the many unsatisfied and the rebels who have had enough of this political Gleichschaltung that Merkel - product of intense SED-state and FdJ-indoctrination , one should never forget that - has initiated to secure her power. And Germany has started by now to pay the price for Merkelianism.

[Mr Quatro]

To be fair, the US does have a system of checks and balances so that any one president can't radically alter the structure of the country. There are executive orders, but they can only get you so far and if you really screw things up then you can be removed via impeachment.
I don't think Trump will be as crazed as president is many make him out to be, because his actual power will be quite limited in many places, as Obama put it "I'm the President of the United States and I can't do anything."
However the global viewpoint of the US will hit a point even lower than it did during George W Bush's tenure, and it's going to make a lot of people inside and outside of America despair of the American political system...well...despair more.

Good thinking Oberon :up:
You must have woke up on the right side of the bed ...
(I wonder where that saying came from)

JFK was strong and Johnson after him was even stronger. They said that Johnson could pick up the phone and get anything he wanted from Capital Hill due to the speaker of the house, Sam Rayburn, being from Texas too, but as we all know something terrible happened during President Johnson's tenure
called the Vietnam war.

This country is not the same country however ... it is on the move away from the establishment.
One thing both parties have going for them is the old saying, "Love does not see the blemishes" :yep:

[Oberon]

Good thinking Oberon :up:
You must have woke up on the right side of the bed ...
(I wonder where that saying came from)



I think that it goes back to when chamberpots were a thing and would be left on a certain side of the bed, and if you got out of the wrong side and put your feet in the chamberpot....well, your day would be off to a bad start. :03:

[Onkel Neal]

Yep, that would not be a good way to start the day:har:

[Bilge_Rat]

pivot!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChtuyP0VEAQZlY1.jpg:small

Happy #CincoDeMayo (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CincoDeMayo?src=hash)! The best taco bowls are made in Trump Tower Grill. I love Hispanics! https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10157008375200725:0 … (https://t.co/ufoTeQd8yA)

[Betonov]

I think that it goes back to when chamberpots were a thing and would be left on a certain side of the bed, and if you got out of the wrong side and put your feet in the chamberpot....well, your day would be off to a bad start. :03:

We say someone got up with his left foot, I doubt it has the same reason. We went from savages with holes in the backyard to a fully functioning toilet in a span of less than a generation :hmmm: Chamberpots are a mystery to us.

[Oberon]

We say someone got up with his left foot, I doubt it has the same reason. We went from savages with holes in the backyard to a fully functioning toilet in a span of less than a generation :hmmm: Chamberpots are a mystery to us.

Not that much different here to be honest, if you own a house from any time before the 1950s chances are that it had an outside toilet, and a generation or two before that the way to empty the toilet was usually out of the upstairs window.

[vienna]

News reports today have been citing a growing number of GOP notables and power figures within and without the Party who are saying they will not attend the upcoming GOP convention. The number is growing and includes both former President Bushes, Romney and Bob Dole. It makes on wonder who will be at the convention who will have any sort of political gravitas...

Also, as I predicted to a neighbor of GOP mine, the words of Trump's former opponents will come back to haunt him and provide fodder for the DEMs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XOocb-DId4

As some comedians have said about the Trump run for President, the jokes write themselves; for the DEMs, the GOP is giving the the best material...



<O>

[mapuc]

^ Have read about this a few second ago in a Danish News paper.

This behaviour isn't it some kind of "mocking" against those who placed their vote on Trump ?


Markus

[em2nought]

News reports today have been citing a growing number of GOP notables and power figures within and without the Party who are saying they will not attend the upcoming GOP convention.
<O>

Thus proving that they themselves have become so much like the enemy as to have become the enemy. If you can't get behind somebody that is willing to say that we've slipped, and need to fix ourselves, you really need to get the #$@% out. They are happiest when continuing to slide along the side of the iceberg, nothing to see here. If $40,000 in debt for every man, woman, and child is just fine with you, you need to get the ^%$ out. What's that work out to? $200,000 per actual taxpayer? Nope, looks like it's more like $1.1 million per actual taxpayer. What do I have to show for that? ROTFLMFAO

Not coming to the party? Good! :up:

[Oberon]

Wonder what the odds are of the moderates of the GOP splitting to form their own party? :hmmm:

[Torplexed]

Wonder what the odds are of the moderates of the GOP splitting to form their own party? :hmmm:


I'd say slim to not quite none. The Stop Trump Movement was such a shambles, and any third party attempt would carry the taint. Plus, I think it's painfully obvious that such a third party move would only aid Hillary.

It's amusing to see that there is now a push on among conservatives to confirm Obama's rather moderate Supreme Court nominee before he withdraws it. Kind of telegraphs the GOP's lack of confidence in a Trump victory. They don't want to face Hillary's SCOTUS choice.

[Aktungbby]

I think that it goes back to when chamberpots were a thing and would be left on a certain side of the bed, and if you got out of the wrong side and put your feet in the chamberpot....well, your day would be off to a bad start. :03:

CLOSE; but no cigar! Source one: The origin of the expression ‘wake up on the wrong side of the bed’ is thought to come from ancient Rome. Romans were very careful always to get up on the correct side of the bed to ensure that good luck would follow them through their days. If they got up “left foot forward” or “on the wrong side of the bed,” they believed that they would be unlucky. Source Two: This expression alludes to the ancient superstition that it was bad luck to put one's left foot down first, and was so used in a number of 17th-century plays. By the early 1800s it was associated more with ill humor than misfortune.

[Jimbuna]

So does this mean there is only Sanders left that hasn't dropped out?

I should imagine the bookmakers will make Clinton the shortest odds favourite ever or pretty close to it.

[Oberon]

So does this mean there is only Sanders left that hasn't dropped out?

I should imagine the bookmakers will make Clinton the shortest odds favourite ever or pretty close to it.

http://i.imgur.com/dttzFHs.jpg?1

:O:

[Betonov]

CLOSE; but no cigar!

It seems the Slovene term is from the Romans.,
Not surprising, they did built one third of the infrastructure we still use in this country.

[AVGWarhawk]

So does this mean there is only Sanders left that hasn't dropped out?

I should imagine the bookmakers will make Clinton the shortest odds favourite ever or pretty close to it.


Sanders is hanging on. He has no chance. What he does do is draw votes from Hillary if he continues the charade of having a chance.

Clinton might just be booked yet. Oh, you mean bookies.

[Mr Quatro]

Shock!

What if Hillary Clinton pulls the upset of the century by choosing Bernie Sanders for her VP? :o

[August]

Shock!

What if Hillary Clinton pulls the upset of the century by choosing Bernie Sanders for her VP? :o

Which puts Sanders one indictment away from the oval office? Clinton's Wall Street backers would never have it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Shock!

What if Hillary Clinton pulls the upset of the century by choosing Bernie Sanders for her VP? :o


Doubt it.

[Nippelspanner]

http://i.imgur.com/1DA2wv7.jpg

"...She was also known as "Hillary the Cruel," "Hillary the Torturer," "Hillary the Despised," and "Hillary the Unholy."
Peter Venkman jokingly adds "Hillary the Butch" to the list of aliases."

[Onkel Neal]

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177784_10154140293467528_7164885279296147622_n.j pg?oh=d98bfbb9f1c056ac3af64e8f2003226b&oe=57E2B5EC

[eddie]

Good to see old Darth Vader is supporting Trump,lol

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279023-cheney-will-back-trump

[em2nought]

Good to see old Darth Vader is supporting Trump,lol

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279023-cheney-will-back-trump

Great, I guess Charlie Sheen will be the next to endorse Trump. :/\\!!

[Torplexed]

Former Texas Governor Rick Perry has graciously volunteered to be Trump's running mate. The craven, opportunistic nature of US politics nicely demonstrated by the fact that Perry once described Trump as a "cancer". But, then Trump probably figured he was talking about his Zodiac sign. :doh:

[Skybird]

The craven, opportunistic nature of politics
Corrected that for you. Score one for Machiavelli.

[mapuc]

A Danish news paper made a survey where they asked their readers

If you lived in America and could vote-which candidate would you choose ?

21 % had Trump as their choice
79 % had Clinton as their choice

[Aktungbby]

It seems the Slovene term is from the Romans.,
Not surprising, they did built one third of the infrastructure we still use in this country.
Well you'll be happy if Trump wins; The first lady will be a Slovenian!:O:Donald Trump has had several foreign wives. It turns out that there really are jobs Americans won’t do,” Romney joked at the Republican Congressional Committee dinner on Tuesday night. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Melania_Knauss-Trump.jpg/800px-Melania_Knauss-Trump.jpg

[Betonov]

Well you'll be happy if Trump wins; The first lady will be a Slovenian!:O:

The wench was declaring herself as an Austrian until the truth got out so in my opinion she can renounce this country and we'll be all better for it.

[Aktungbby]

Actually it was all the Austro-Hungarian Empire at one point; she's just picking an earlier starting point...1914! Lady's choice always! She is a watch designer; so time is on her side??!!:O:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/styles/fullsize/public/Austro_Hungary_1000.jpg?itok=rwfyrlA-

[vienna]

Thus proving that they themselves have become so much like the enemy as to have become the enemy. If you can't get behind somebody that is willing to say that we've slipped, and need to fix ourselves, you really need to get the #$@% out. They are happiest when continuing to slide along the side of the iceberg, nothing to see here. If $40,000 in debt for every man, woman, and child is just fine with you, you need to get the ^%$ out. What's that work out to? $200,000 per actual taxpayer? Nope, looks like it's more like $1.1 million per actual taxpayer. What do I have to show for that? ROTFLMFAO

Not coming to the party? Good! :up:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/54/4a/37/544a37057f1e4402e89f2ae21bf93d40.jpg




<O>

[Oberon]

Actually it was all the Austro-Hungarian Empire at one point; she's just picking an earlier starting point...1914! Lady's choice always! She is a watch designer; so time is on her side??!!:O:




And Betonov has never forgiven us for it. :O:

[Mr Quatro]

A Danish news paper made a survey where they asked their readers

If you lived in America and could vote-which candidate would you choose ?

21 % had Trump as their choice
79 % had Clinton as their choice

That's about the same here on subsim just on a causal glance that is :yep:

[Torplexed]

Donald's plan to deal with the debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html?_r=1

One day after assuring Americans he is not running for president “to make things unstable for the country,” the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald J. Trump, said in a television interview Thursday that he might seek to reduce the national debt by persuading creditors to accept something less than full payment.

Asked whether the United States needed to pay its debts in full, or whether he could negotiate a partial repayment, Mr. Trump told the cable network CNBC, “I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal.” He added, “And if the economy was good, it was good. So, therefore, you can’t lose.”

So essentially, what he's saying is that we can cut down the debt...by not paying it. I have a feeling his proposal comes from his many years of experience in ripping off creditors. He makes the profit, pockets it, and stiffs creditors and average workers, who are laid off and are not being paid, holding the empty bag. Now, he has somehow managed to swindle other investors to invest into his businesses again, even after he defaulted. These must have been some dumb investors, because, normally, his credit rating should have been shot after one default. And likely that's what would happen to the US credit rating.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge the fact that no one is going to accept less than face value on US debt. Or, if they do, it means that you've essentially destroyed your credit to the point where they are afraid they aren't going to get paid back at all, which is going to destroy your ability to borrow in the future.

[August]

Only problem with that is it's Congress that holds the nations purse strings not the executive branch.

Congress has ceded way too much authority to the executive over the years and maybe President Trump will be the inspiration they need to take it back.

[Torplexed]

Only problem with that is it's Congress that holds the nations purse strings not the executive branch.

Congress has ceded way too much authority to the executive over the years and maybe President Trump will be the inspiration they need to take it back.


Even ignoring the unconstitutional nature of the whole idea, from a election campaign perspective it makes no sense. As a businessman, one area where Trump always got higher marks over Clinton was in his possible handling of the economy. If you're a tactician in the Trump camp, you think, that's an angle you can use to start pulling in some vacillating conservatives and a few independents. And then Trump floats a crackpot balloon like this. Voters don't even need to understand the full implications of it. They'll just hear: "He wants to imperil your retirement savings by defaulting on the national debt." And possible ad angles like "I'm better on the economy" start to lose their effectiveness.

But then just as with Bernie Sanders, Trump's more fervent supporters never even bother to dip their toes in the shallow waters of the policies he's offering, so it may do him no harm short-term.

I've noticed Donald Trump's newly installed campaign finance chair has been trying to walk the idea back.

[mapuc]

I have a little task for you American member(of course other can take part too)

1. Find positive things about Trump
2. Find positive things about Clinton

because it can't be, that it is only negative things regarding these two candidates

(it's not a serious post)

Markus

[Oberon]

1. They're not running for the leadership of my country
2. They're not running for the leadership of my country





Of course, I can't gloat...in 2020 we might wind up with the Boris. :dead:

[Torplexed]

I have a little task for you American member(of course other can take part too)

1. Find positive things about Trump
2. Find positive things about Clinton




1. Believe or not, there are a few. During the primaries, Trump defended some aspects of Planned Parenthood, supported transgendered restrooms, called for higher taxes on hedge fund managers, threatened protectionist trade policies including tariffs, and claimed that President George W. Bush lied in order to get the United States military to topple Saddam Hussein. All of these positions are rather mainstream, if you are in the far, left wing of the Democratic Party. He also doesn't seem to have the God Squad mentality of so many conservative Republicans.

2. Clinton would be our first female president. Seems like that milestone should go to a better, less screechy candidate though. :88)

[Jimbuna]

1. They're not running for the leadership of my country
2. They're not running for the leadership of my country





Of course, I can't gloat...in 2020 we might wind up with the Boris. :dead:

Well we've already had a female leader.

[vienna]

Even ignoring the unconstitutional nature of the whole idea, from a election campaign perspective it makes no sense. As a businessman, one area where Trump always got higher marks over Clinton was in his possible handling of the economy. If you're a tactician in the Trump camp, you think, that's an angle you can use to start pulling in some vacillating conservatives and a few independents. And then Trump floats a crackpot balloon like this. Voters don't even need to understand the full implications of it. They'll just hear: "He wants to imperil your retirement savings by defaulting on the national debt." And possible ad angles like "I'm better on the economy" start to lose their effectiveness.

But then just as with Bernie Sanders, Trump's more fervent supporters never even bother to dip their toes in the shallow waters of the policies he's offering, so it may do him no harm short-term.

I've noticed Donald Trump's newly installed campaign finance chair has been trying to walk the idea back.

Part of the problem I have with any of the candidates is the paucity of actual, fleshed out ideas on the economy. What you tend to hear is generalities, platitudes, and a sort of "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" attitude. Given the polls show the voters priorities, across all spectrum, in order, are the economy, government spending, terrorism, and immigration, it would be reassuring to know, in advance what solid, concrete, and, most importantly, actually workable economic actions the candidates will espouse once they get into the White House. Trump has become bothersome, of late. Aside from a long track record of, in his personal/business financial dealings, running up massive debt and then using the bankruptcy system to bail himself out, there have been some additions to his current team that raise some red flags. Over the weekend it was revealed Dick Cheney has joined Team Trump. Considering his connection to the Nixon, Ford, Reagan and both Bush administrations, and considering all those administrations resulted in progressively worsening states of severe recession, are we looking at a continuation of those failed economic polices and, perhaps a further, greater devastation of the US economy in general, and the middle-class in particular? The accumulation by the Trump campaign of the failed functionaries of economically failed administrations, a sort of "The Usual Gang Of Idiots", makes one worry about the soundness of yet another such management group. In baseball, you get three strikes and you're out; this group has had four strikes thus far; and, going by the standard definition of insanity being the repetition of a failed act over and over again expecting a different result, the addition of persons such as Cheney calls not only the sanity of whatever economics "policies" Trump may have, but also the sanity of Trump himself. I don't really give a monkey's about transgender WCs or religious-based fol-de-rol "issues" or any of the other sideshow/freak-show distractions being thrown up by the candidates; I just care about someone, anyone, actually coming out with a comprehensive, detailed economic plan that does not embrace failed or questionable past philosophies...



<O>

[STEED]

I have a little task for you American member(of course other can take part too)

1. Find positive things about Trump
2. Find positive things about Clinton

because it can't be, that it is only negative things regarding these two candidates

(it's not a serious post)

Markus

1. Find positive things about Trump

Always good for a laugh. :haha:

2. Find positive things about Clinton

A good advert not to have Botox. :03:

[Oberon]

Well we've already had a female leader.

:hmmm: Aye, with bigger balls than most of our male leaders since.

[Jimbuna]

:hmmm: Aye, with bigger balls than most of our male leaders since.

True that :yep:

[August]

I can't find a good thing to say about either of them. Trump isn't the one claiming to go after the 2nd Amendment "on day one" so he'll probably be the one I pick but i'll be holding my nose when I do it.

[Oberon]

I think it's on his schedule at around day two after he's finished with the first amendment :hmmm: :03:

[Aktungbby]

Part of the problem I have with any of the and, going by the standard definition of insanity being the repetition of a failed act over and over again... or any of the other sideshow/freak-show distractions http://cdn.emgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Donald-Trump-EMGN2.jpg
:sign_yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Who will be Trump's running mate?

[AVGWarhawk]

Who will be Trump's running mate?


Being a narcissist he will pick himself.

[Mr Quatro]

Who will be Trump's running mate?

August :woot:

[U505995]

1. Find positive things about Trump

Always good for a laugh. :haha:

2. Find positive things about Clinton

A good advert not to have Botox. :03:

1. Trump is pro gun

2. Hillary on the other hand...
http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/36/3646/AXDCF00Z/posters/john-burcham-tumbleweed-on-the-bonneville-salt-flats-utah.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Being a narcissist he will pick himself.

August :woot:

LOL :)

[August]

August :woot:

Me being one heartbeat away from the Oval office would be the best insurance against impeachment that Trump could get. :yep:

[Betonov]

Me being one heartbeat away from the Oval office would be the best insurance against impeachment that Trump could get. :yep:

If you win and he gets a heart attack, you're placing me as the ambasador to Slovenia and/or EU.

[August]

If you win and he gets a heart attack, you're placing me as the ambasador to Slovenia and/or EU.

Definitely. I'd even let you stay in the Lincoln Bedroom at the White House until you get set up in the Embassy. We could take Marine One over to Camp David and shoot some real assault weapons and blow up some stuff. It's good to be Commander in Chief!

[AVGWarhawk]

Definitely. I'd even let you stay in the Lincoln Bedroom at the White House until you get set up in the Embassy. We could take Marine One over to Camp David and shoot some real assault weapons and blow up some stuff. It's good to be Commander in Chief!


On the way out make sure you trample Michelle's victory garden. :shifty:

[Oberon]

1. Trump is pro gun

2. Hillary on the other hand...
http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/36/3646/AXDCF00Z/posters/john-burcham-tumbleweed-on-the-bonneville-salt-flats-utah.jpg

I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Trump

[Betonov]

Definitely. I'd even let you stay in the Lincoln Bedroom at the White House until you get set up in the Embassy. We could take Marine One over to Camp David and shoot some real assault weapons and blow up some stuff. It's good to be Commander in Chief!

I will take on that offer since I'll be moving the embassy somewhere closer to the Apalachia and it would take time for the project to be complete.
And I want to drive an Abrams and a Patton :)

On the way out make sure you trample Michelle's victory garden. :shifty:

Hell no, I'm taking that over :hmph:

[AVGWarhawk]

Hell no, I'm taking that over :hmph:


Well, the way things are going these days you can start a marijuana garden on the south lawn.

[Betonov]

Well, the way things are going these days you can start a marijuana garden on the south lawn.

Be carefull what you wish for :haha:

[BossMark]

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/bossmarks%20pictures/551c5460-f761-0132-450e-0a2ca390b447_zpsypa0y7zd.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Be carefull what you wish for :haha:


The Rose Garden will be renamed Cannabis Heaven. Why not? The country has turned into a free for all anyway.

[U505995]

Trump's stance has since changed.
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.
Trump

From trump's own website.
Gun and magazine bans are a total failure. That’s been proven every time it’s been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like “assault weapons”, “military-style weapons” and “high capacity magazines” to confuse people. What they’re really talking about are popular semi-automatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned by tens of millions of Americans. Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.

[Oberon]

Trump's stance has since changed.


From trump's own website.

We'll see...after all, politicans tend to change again after they're elected. :03:

[Buddahaid]

You know they can never please everyone. They get trashed for not following their constituency and then trashed for following it.

[August]

You know they can never please everyone. They get trashed for not following their constituency and then trashed for following it.

As long as they follow the wishes of the constituency they were elected to represent then then it doesn't matter who else doesn't like it.

[vienna]

As long as they follow the wishes of the constituency they were elected to represent then then it doesn't matter who else doesn't like it.

Ah, yes, and we have so many examples of an elected official actually following the wishes of the electorate, don't we? Particularly, the higher the level of office, the less, proportionately, are campaign promises or stances adhered to; basic politics is to say what you need to get elected, then, once in office, to do what you think the electorate wants even in the face of voter sentiment to the contrary...

..also, it never bodes well when a candidate makes statements that contradict each other, particularly when the contradicting statement is made under the influence of getting elected; remember, more than any other candidate of either party, Trump has, all his life, been first and foremost an accomplished salesman, and that many of his past customers have been very much less than satisfied with his "product"...


<O>

[Buddahaid]

Wives included?

Some of that is when they actually have to face the reality of laws which may run counter their supporters wishes. And, of course, they have their opinion as to what is best to bring to the table. Things get so fractal they can't avoid getting accused of flip-flopping or being Luddite.

Salesmanship is the order of the day indeed.

[U505995]

We'll see...after all, politicans tend to change again after they're elected. :03:
I'll take his word over Hillary's.:03:

[Jimbuna]

We'll see...after all, politicans tend to change again after they're elected. :03:

Isn't that also what UK politicians do? :O:

[mapuc]

That is what they do in every country where there is democracy and election

Markus

[Platapus]

Who will be Trump's running mate?

Honestly, I am more concerned with who will be his SecDef. Nuclear surety being what it is.

[vienna]

Honestly, I am more concerned with who will be his SecDef. Nuclear surety being what it is.

I agree; there are many more vastly important issues to consider in a decision as to who will run our country and its policies for the next four years. Sideshows like abortion, gun control (face it, guys: the 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere or away regardless of who is in the White House or which party has control of Congress), and any of a number of smoke screens the parties throw up to conceal the paucity of real stands on truly important issues shouldn't be used solely to make such an important decision. The economy, which affects every single man, woman and child in the US is important as are the nature of foreign policy, the conduct of anti-terrorism efforts, the reformation of the tax system, etc. I am not making any decision until the after the conventions and the Presidential debates; an awful lot can change at the conventions and the debates will give the voting public an opportunity to actually hear and see the ideas and conduct of whoever are the final two candidates...

There was a local Fox news report of a Trump business association concerning what may be a pyramid scheme by a telcom firm, ACN. Trump gave his wholehearted, personal (albeit, paid) endorsement of the questionable firm; now that the association has come to light, Trump is denying any knowledge of or connection to the firm despite several videos and other documnetation proving the contrary:

http://www.foxla.com/news/139720670-story

(The italics below are mine)...



Long before he was a presidential candidate, businessman Donald Trump endorsed products and companies and he made money doing it. One of those companies, ACN, sold long-distance phone services and videophones. Over a ten-year business relationship, Trump appeared in at least a half-dozen promotional videos for the company, which is described as a multi-level marketing firm.

In the case of ACN, it works this way. You buy-in for $499, recruit others to buy-in and sell, and you get a percentage of their income. Critics say it is nothing more than a pyramid scheme. Despite complaints, the company has successfully defended itself in investigations here in the U.S. and abroad.

In those promotional videos produced for ACN, Trump endorsed the products and the company, saying “I’ve been working with ACN for a few years now. We have a great relationship. The more I hear, the more I like and respect them. I see incredible potential in what they’re doing now.”

He even featured ACN on his “Celebrity Apprentice” show. Twice. According to federal disclosure forms Trump filed for his presidential run last year, he was paid $450,000 a year, for at least three years, by ACN for the glowing endorsements.

Shortly after the disclosure forms were made public, Trump was asked by The Wall Street Journal about the fees he collected from CAN. He told the paper, “I do not know the company. I know nothing about the company other than the people who run the company. I am not familiar with what they do or how they go about doing that, and I made that clear in my speeches.”

The promotional videos featuring Trump seem to contradict that comment to The Wall Street Journal. In one of those videos, Trump summed up his assessment of CAN: “When evaluating a business opportunity, people need to look for clear leadership, a product people clearly need and want, and plan for the future. ACN has all of these things. ''

We repeatedly asked representatives for Trump to discuss this seeming contradiction with us. They declined.

...and this is not a new disclosure: if you do a search of Google News for "Trump ACN", you will find articles from other reputable sources going back at least a year also citing this Trump collaboration. And don't think for one moment the DEMs and their candidate will not use this in their campaign if Trump does get the nomination. Given the breadth of Trump's various associations and his track record of questionable business dealings, the GOP has to worry about more and, perhaps, worse such skeletons coming out of the closet...

Regarding the italicized segments in the quote above: something to think about if you have a problem with equivocation by those asking to be your leader...



<O>

[Skybird]

That is what they do in every country where there is democracy and election

Markus
By ancient Greek origin of "democracy", only a small elite of free, rich males was allowed to vote in elections, depending on the city state we talk of only 5-15% of the population. This feudal elite is what "citizenship" originally is about. The madness we do today, that every Peter and Paul knowing nothing about anything can get his precious Me too!-ness counted, originally had no place in "democracy". ;)

No propaganda of mine, but historic fact. Mind you, ancient Greek usually is seen as the "cradle of democracy". Today'S democracies in original Greek understanding are not "democracies" at all, but "tyrannies" of mixed formats (monocracies, ochlocracies, oligarchies in varying mixes). ;)

Elections alone are no sufficient characteristics for "democracies". Better keep both terms strictly separate. If the electorate is not discriminated for qualification, elections can and most often are indicative for oligarchies and ochlocracies alike, and even can be abused by monocrats. Examples reach from all of Europe over the Ukraine and Turkey to North Korea. The US wanted to avoid that, but in the modern present has failed to achieve - or to maintain - the idealistic goal. The fact alone that elections are held, tells nothing about the level of freedom in a society, nor about the responsiveness and responsibility - not even mentioning: competence - of the elected. And the voters.

[Torplexed]

It's quite a match.

One is all resumé and no glitz, the other all glitz and no resumé.

This year I may write in Kermit the Frog for president. :88) A puppet I can support.

http://www.mostlylegit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/kermitconference-300x204.jpg

[Skybird]

A puppet I can support.

Talk of the day. LOL :D

[August]

What resume?

Her supporters say that Clinton has the experience for the job but as far as i can tell her record has been nothing but that of failure and blundering.

The Russian reset, the Arab Spring, Syria, Libya, all major failures on her watch as SoS. Then there are the scandals like Benghazi and the email server that, criminal investigations and political witch hunts aside, display a disconcerting degree of incompetence for the leadership role that she seeks.

It's not unreasonable to expect a high level government official like a Secretary of State to understand the importance of and follow basic freaking security procedures and regulations. That personal email server was a stupidly risky thing to do with our nations security. I expect these officials to be personally overseeing volatile situations like Benghazi and be planning for the safety of our people instead of claiming to be ignorant of the entire thing until after the fact.

You put it together and it shows a clear pattern of incompetence. Not much of a record to run for President on.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

As long as they follow the wishes of the constituency they were elected to represent then then it doesn't matter who else doesn't like it.

Thank god for gerrymandering!!! It's a good thing for silencing the electoral voices of the wrong kind of person!!!

[Torvald Von Mansee]

What resume?

Her supporters say that Clinton has the experience for the job but as far as i can tell her record has been nothing but that of failure and blundering.

The Russian reset, the Arab Spring, Syria, Libya, all major failures on her watch as SoS. Then there are the scandals like Benghazi and the email server that, criminal investigations and political witch hunts aside, display a disconcerting degree of incompetence for the leadership role that she seeks.

It's not unreasonable to expect a high level government official like a Secretary of State to understand the importance of and follow basic freaking security procedures and regulations. That personal email server was a stupidly risky thing to do with our nations security. I expect these officials to be personally overseeing volatile situations like Benghazi and be planning for the safety of our people instead of claiming to be ignorant of the entire thing until after the fact.

You put it together and it shows a clear pattern of incompetence. Not much of a record to run for President on.

Is that your completely neutral, absolutely non-partisan analysis?

[August]

Thank god for gerrymandering!!! It's a good thing for silencing the electoral voices of the wrong kind of person!!!

Irrelevant to what I said. A politicians ability to get reelected is completely dependent upon how his constituents feel about him and not how others may feel. Maybe you don't like it but too bad because that's the way it is.

Is that your completely neutral, absolutely non-partisan analysis?Yes.

[August]

And oh by the way:

Clinton's choice not to use a secure phone line is similar to a previous June, 17, 2011 email exchange with then-State Department deputy chief of staff Jake Sullivan, where she directed him to strip the classification markings of sensitive talking points and send through non-secure fax. "They say they've had issues sending secure fax. They're working on it," Sullivan wrote to Clinton

"If they can't, turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure," Clinton responded.

Game, set and match.

[Mr Quatro]

Both candidates for POTUS have done something wrong or should we say have made mistakes, both have lied, both have promised this and promised that, both parties for these candidates have spent millions of donors money on slick ads telling us this and telling us that.

So which one will win? The one with the most money? The one with the best lies? The one that convinces a nation that they can do what they say they can do?

I would think the last one ... the one that can convince a nation that they can do what they say they can do.

It's a battle for what we think, it's a battle for our emotions, we must think clearly and try to see through the lies and the deception that are always present in any election local, state or national, but especially in this election.

Which one will represent who and what our country stands for better than the other one.

For me and myself and my family I'm leaning towards Hillary Clinton :up:

If Donald Trump wasn't so disrespectful to Mexico and Muslims and the people that he has been running against and so forceful in his choice of languages against anyone against him then I would lean that way.

Donald Trump is not going to get better in the next six months ... he is a mirror image of lies and deception that he would serve the America people for the next four years.

No way Jose' :o

My coffee got cold :oops:

[vienna]

And oh by the way:



Game, set and match.

So, by your standards and criteria, both Colin Powell and Connie Rice should be indicted, tried, convicted and imprisoned since they also used non-secure servers? Or is your absolute, impartial justice only for those with whom you disagree? Those standards sound a bit fascist to me if you are looking at accurate definitions and not politically motivated and (gasp!) partisan definitions. Your high-horse blustering about honesty, competence, integrity and other such qualities seem to end where the matter of those you wish to see in office or who have held office begins. Honesty, competence, integrity? The miasma of the GW Bush administration and its mishandling of the economy, foreign policy, domestic needs, etc., flies in the face of you high "standards"; and I would have very little difficulty in defending that stance and in enumerating instances of malfeasance and deficiencies by other's you seem to hold so dear. Game, set, match? Not by a long shot; the game is still on and you can't seem to be able to read the scorecard. Others have pointed out one very basic truth about this election (and, also very truthfully, other elections past and future) and that is none of the candidates presented thus far are, by any stretch of the imagination ideal or, given your own very exacting standards, at all palatable or viable. We are just going to have to pick from the lesser of two evils, as usual. I'm just waiting to see which two evils (or, perhaps, a third) emerge; then I will cast my vote...

BTW, regarding Trump and his disavowal of any connection or involvement in the ACN scheme, go to YouTube and search "Trump ACN"; right off the top are a good number of videos showing Trump at ACN functions and even Trump doing personal promotional videos for ACN. But Trump denies it all.
Honesty, integrity? Not seeing it here...


<O>

[vienna]

Oh, and by the way, if you are going to quote something, it would be nice to have a cite or link, just so the rest of us can know where it comes from and if it is complete. Here is what I found by a Google search:

But in one email exchange between Clinton and staffer Jake Sullivan from June 17, 2011, the then-secretary advised her aide on sending a set of talking points by email when he had trouble sending them through secure means.

Part of the exchange is redacted, so the context of the emails is unknown, but at one point, Sullivan tells Clinton that aides "say they've had issues sending secure fax. They're working on it."

Clinton responds, "If they can't, turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure."

It's unclear whether the talking points themselves contained classified information. Typically, talking points are used for unclassified purposes (e.g. speaking with the media). But in some cases, the material contained in such memos may still be sensitive -- especially if the report originates from intelligence agencies.

On Friday, the Clinton campaign's press secretary, Brian Fallon, denied that the information was classified.

"It is false that Hillary Clinton asked for classified material to be sent over a nonsecure system," Fallon told CBS News' Nancy Cordes.

And State Department spokesperson John Kirby said Friday that it is not uncommon for non-classified documents to be crafted and shared on the classified system.

Further, according to the Associated Press, the State Department said a review showed that the document in question was sent "apparently by secure fax, after all," and was never was sent to Clinton by email.(Dated 01/06/2016)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/state-department-releases-more-clinton-emails-several-marked-classified/

And that, as Paul Harvey used to say, is the rest of the story...



<O>

[mapuc]

Saw a photoshopped picture on FB

With a text saying

"For the indecisive voter, here's Clump"

Picture on the page

https://ifunny.co/#tags/clump


Markus

[vienna]

I say we all vote for Dewey...


http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Historical%20Page/large-dewey1.JPG



<O>

[Mr Quatro]

This could hurt Hillary Clinton more than her emails and private server and the benghazi truth.

It's so sick to think of Bill Clinton this way, but you have to read between the lines. Did he or did he not partake of his friends offers to go to bed with young girls?

Bill Clinton flying on his friends private 727 jet called the “Lolita Express” was reported at first to be just 11 times and now records show 22 times.
Five or six times without the secret service ...

The records show Clinton flying aboard Epstein’s plane to such destinations as Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, China, Brunei, London, New York, the Azores, Belgium, Norway, Russia and Africa.

Here's the link: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html?intcmp=trending

I thought Fox was anti-Trump this report took a lot of money and a lot of time that is still being spent to find the truth. At least Trump is not this guys friend.

Last line of that article about the “Lolita Express”

“There was no relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump,” he said. “They were not friends and they did not socialize together.”

[vienna]

“There was no relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump,” he said. “They were not friends and they did not socialize together.”


Ah, Google is a marvelous thing:

11/26/2015

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexcampbell/court-papers-trump-ate-at-jeffrey-epsteins-house?utm_term=.ty69DGx1nL#.ntW04YnvNR

07/07/2015

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2015/07/judge-unseals-more-details-in-jeffrey-epstein-underage-sex-lawsuit-210065

From the above link:

"I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump told New York Magazine back in 2002. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

A Trump associate said Tuesday that Trump wasn't aware of any wrongdoing and that he and Epstein were not particularly close. "He was a member of one of Trump's clubs where he would visit with women and business associates, but there was no formal relationship," the source close to Trump said.Well, which was it: someone he says he knew for fifteen years and felt comfortable enough to give a glowing endorsement or the guy he says he didn't even know?...

The New York Magazine article (2002):

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/#

...and that is with just five minutes of searching; again, can anyone really trust Trump and his word?...


<O>

[Mr Quatro]

...and that is with just five minutes of searching; again, can anyone really trust Trump and his word?...


<O>

Your hired ... I just took his lawyers word for it :oops:

[August]

...and that is with just five minutes of searching; again, can anyone really trust Trump and his word?...

I know huh? And the sad part is he's still a better choice than Crooked Hillary. Go figure!

[Sailor Steve]

No, he's not. Each is worse than the other, and the choice they present is no choice at all. If they end up being the leading choices, I'll have to find some other option.

[STEED]

https://memecrunch.com/meme/BFF4U/hi-i-am-pinky-trump/image.jpg?w=468&c=1

[Torplexed]

Perky isn't an adjective I'd use to describe over-the-Hillary Clinton these days. :)

http://www.isthatbaloney.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/hillary-clinton-old-hag-6.jpg

[Buddahaid]

Must be reviewing a Trump oration, or is that boration.

[STEED]

BLOODY HELL...RUN AWAY! :o

[Oberon]

Must be reviewing a Trump oration, or is that boration.

Or another Benghazi hearing. :O:

[Mr Quatro]

You English chaps have had the green weenie now that Trump is mad at you:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/16/politics/donald-trump-cameron-khan/


Donald Trump said Monday London's new mayor made "very rude statements" about him -- and the presumptive Republican presidential nominee warned he won't have a good relationship with British Prime Minister David Cameron if he's elected.

Trump made the comments in an interview with ITV's "Good Morning Britain" host Piers Morgan, when asked to respond to criticisms made about him by British politicians.

[Oberon]

Seems much happier to cosy up to Putin than to Europe. :hmmm:

[vienna]

Your hired ... I just took his lawyers word for it :oops:

No worries; it happens to us all. It used to be so very difficult to find the real truth behind the public presentations of those in the political arena, but, now with the Internet, it is getting more and more difficult for the political spinmeisters to ply their trade. What is truly amusing is seeing or reading the denials in situations such as the ACN and Jeffrey Epstein cases and observing the blatant lies in the face of the presentation of previous facts; it brings to mind the old SNL Martin Short sketches where he would play a character named Nathan Thurm who, as spokesperson for some political or corporate entity would be questioned regarding a scandalous situation and Thurm, sweating profusely and chain-smoking, would deny the scandal even when presented with documentation; the real kicker was when he would start to deny his denials... :haha:

A couple of things came to mind this weekend regarding Trump and his "popularity" with GOP voters. Much has been said about Trump bring in greater numbers of GOP registered voters, but how many of those new voters actually voted for Trump and how many registered solely to vote for other GOP candidates in an effort to derail Trump? It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the newly registered voters' preferences...

Additionally, Trump is now backpedaling on some of his strongly held selling points; the strident call for exclusion of all Muslims from entry to the US is now toned down to a "suggestion"; the defiant stance of being self-funded, self-sufficient and not accepting big donor money so as not to be beholden in a quid pro quo situation as are so many mainstream politicians, i.e., "I'm the outsider", has also gone by the way. There are many GOP voters who, in the earlier primaries, voted for Trump based on their approbation of Trump's stances: with the various about faces now emerging from the Trump camp, how many of those who voted on the basis of what they felt were Trump's selling points, and who are now disappointed, how many of them will continue to support or vote for Trump now that he has "betrayed" them? The Trump they voted for in the previous months is not the Trump running now...



<O>

[mapuc]

^ Some weeks ago I got this picture inside my head

Two years after Trump have been elected

USA is very, very good friends with Russia and China

And have become unfriendly with their former Allies and friends

Markus

[Torplexed]

There are many GOP voters who, in the earlier primaries, voted for Trump based on their approbation of Trump's stances: with the various about faces now emerging from the Trump camp, how many of those who voted on the basis of what they felt were Trump's selling points, and who are now disappointed, how many of them will continue to support or vote for Trump now that he has "betrayed" them? The Trump they voted for in the previous months is not the Trump running now...

<O>

Most of his fans are so enamored and blinded by his celebrity at this point I doubt they notice the contradictions and about-faces that Trump sometimes makes even in the same speech.

The new mayor of London called Trump's proposed ban on Muslims "ignorant" to which he has replied "Let's take an IQ test". Donald Trumplethinskin has also made the veiled threat that the U.S. will have poor relations with the British and their government officials if he's elected, because he doesn't like the nasty things that they are saying about him over there. Yet, when Obama talks of potential complications in forming trade agreements with the UK if they Brexit, Trump immediately and lavishly promised that Britain would get top priority and all the best deals if they leave the EU. So much for poor relations.

It's almost like he doesn't care about consistency or any larger rationale beyond "say why I'm great, and others are not". But then his more fervent supporters don't take notice either. They just want the image he is selling and swallow what the carnival barker is saying, hook, line and sinker.

I think Trump was spot on when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and that his supporters wouldn't care. That's the first thing he has said that I can buy.

[Jimbuna]

Must admit I lost a lot of the admiration I had for Obama after what he said during his recent visit to the UK but at least he was consistent...and that is more than can be said of Trump.

[Rockstar]

^ Some weeks ago I got this picture inside my head

Two years after Trump have been elected

USA is very, very good friends with Russia and China

And have become unfriendly with their former Allies and friends

Markus

Good ridance I mean really just what exactley does Europe have to offer?

[Catfish]

^ You mean apart from the EU being the biggest market for US products ?

The United States has long called on Europe to refuse China market status:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/12/europe-sides-with-the-u-s-sorry-china-youre-still-not-a-market-economy/

So the US will do, what it denies others? Would be nothing new though :O:

[August]

I don't like either candidate but I will say that of the two Trump has never mishandled classified information (once let alone several thousand times), never allowed four of his employees to be left unsupported in a dangerous place and subsequently killed by terrorists, then lied about it to cover his butt, never tried to steal the White House furniture, doesn't run a pay to play money laundering syndicate taking donations from human rights abusers and other oppressive regimes, and (strangely enough this is just as important to me) isn't rude and demeaning to the military and secret service agents (ie the "little people") who have to deal with him.

[Oberon]

Well, give him time, I'm sure he'll deliver. :yep:

[Betonov]

Good ridance I mean really just what exactley does Europe have to offer?

Trumps wife

[Rockstar]

Isnt she a Ukranian mail order bride or was that his first one?

[Betonov]

Isnt she a Ukranian mail order bride or was that his first one?

First one.
This one is a prime Slovenian precious metal excavator

[vienna]

Does any one else find it amusing that some of the very vociferous supporters of Trump now are some of the very same people who were denouncing him as being not really a Republican (since he started out as a Democrat), or as a "stalking horse" for Hilary and the DEMs, or as a "closet liberal", among other things? I guess when GOP backs are against the wall, consistency and personal honesty just have to go by the way... :hmmm:



<O>

[ObeseMonster]

Does any one else find it amusing that some of the very vociferous supporters of Trump now are some of the very same people who were denouncing him as being not really a Republican (since he started out as a Democrat), or as a "stalking horse" for Hilary and the DEMs, or as a "closet liberal", among other things? I guess when GOP backs are against the wall, consistency and personal honesty just have to go by the way... :hmmm:



<O>

Very good point I thought that was funny myself :timeout:

[Mr Quatro]

I don't like either candidate but I will say that of the two Trump has never mishandled classified information (once let alone several thousand times), never allowed four of his employees to be left unsupported in a dangerous place and subsequently killed by terrorists, then lied about it to cover his butt, never tried to steal the White House furniture, doesn't run a pay to play money laundering syndicate taking donations from human rights abusers and other oppressive regimes, and (strangely enough this is just as important to me) isn't rude and demeaning to the military and secret service agents (ie the "little people") who have to deal with him.

You left off all of the china dishes with the POTUS seal on them from Air Force One was reported missing after it's last official Bill Clinton flight of same. :hmmm:

Might have been returned by now though ... too busy to google :yep:

[Mr Quatro]

I googled it and it was lie ... I'm sorry Mrs Clinton I thought your were guilty :o


http://fair.org/media_criticism/white-house-responds-to-vandalism-charges-fox-responds-to-fair/

A story that didn’t fly
And let’s not forget that Brit Hume, along with dozens of others, falsely reported that Air Force One “was stripped bare. The plane’s…porcelain, china and silverware and salt and pepper shakers, blankets and pillow cases, nearly all items bearing the presidential seal, were taken by Clinton staffers” (Special Report With Brit Hume, 1/25/01).
That story, an utter fabrication, was first reported in the Washington Times (1/25/01) and sourced to an Air Force steward who–intriguingly–appears to have leaked it on the same day Bush administration officials first leaked their own allegations about White House vandalism (DrudgeReport.com, Rich Galen’s Mullings.com–both 1/24/01).
Over the next two weeks, Fleischer and the Bush administration allowed the media to repeat the Air Force One story over and over, almost certainly knowing it was a lie. It was only after Andrews Air Force Base took the wind out of the story that Bush acknowledged nothing had been missing from the plane, saying (2/13/01), “All the allegations that they took stuff off of Air Force One is simply not true.”

[Platapus]

I don't like either candidate but I will say that of the two Trump has never mishandled classified information

Well he has never been in a position to handle classified information.

I can rightfully say that I have never botched a brain surgery... that claim would not make me a good candidate if you need surgery.

[August]

Does any one else find it amusing that some of the very vociferous supporters of Trump now are some of the very same people who were denouncing him as being not really a Republican (since he started out as a Democrat), or as a "stalking horse" for Hilary and the DEMs, or as a "closet liberal", among other things? I guess when GOP backs are against the wall, consistency and personal honesty just have to go by the way... :hmmm:



<O>

I find it amusing that i'm so far into your head that you have to dig up words like vociferous when attacking me.

Personally I don't care what you think but to anyone else reading this I have no choice but to vote for Trump because the Democrats seem determined to nominate a female Lex Luthor wannabe. I'd much rather see the clown than the criminal in the oval office. The former is far more manageable.

If the Democrats come to their senses and nominate somebody actually decent then maybe i'd support them.

Oh and regarding the stolen furniture I wasn't talking about Air Force One.

This is a taste of what you're getting in a candidate Democrats...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

[Oberon]

Keep Lex Luthor out of the White House, vote for General Zod! :yep:

[Torplexed]

Keep Lex Luthor out of the White House, vote for General Zod! :yep:

I, for one, welcome our new Krytponian overlords. :)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5220/1342/400/seal3.jpg

[vienna]

I find it amusing that i'm so far into your head that you have to dig up words like vociferous when attacking me.

Personally I don't care what you think but to anyone else reading this I have no choice but to vote for Trump because the Democrats seem determined to nominate a female Lex Luthor wannabe. I'd much rather see the clown than the criminal in the oval office. The former is far more manageable.

If the Democrats come to their senses and nominate somebody actually decent then maybe i'd support them.

Oh and regarding the stolen furniture I wasn't talking about Air Force One.

This is a taste of what you're getting in a candidate Democrats...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121856&page=1

Your skin is unreasonably thin: my comments weren't directed at you at all; I posted those comments after listening to a local conservative talk show host, who did make such comments and more, try to talk up Trump and trying to make it seem he was behind Donald all along. I really don't know which part of my comments may apply to you and I have no idle curiosity to cause me to go back and look up your previous posts re: Trump. As far as getting into someone's head, what would you say about some one who takes a general statement and becomes certain it was directed solely at themselves? Do you also believe the TV set is sending you personal messages? :haha:

...oh, and by the way, I regret a wide vocabulary really distresses you so.... :haha:

As far as Trump or Clinton is concerned, as I said before, I'm reserving my final decision until all the primaries and the conventions are over and the final Presidential debates have been held. There is still no absolute certainty either of the putative front runners will actually be on the ballots come November; given the number of variables, some within plausibility, some a bit farther out, and given past history, anything can happen. It is far to early to become agitated or overly invested...


<O>

[Torplexed]

Looks like Hillary may win by the narrowest of margins in Kentucky tonight. The Democratic race has been getting pretty raw in the late going with the many aggrieved Sanders supporters increasing facing off with the Democratic Party establishment.

[Mr Quatro]

To me at least it seems like Bernie Sanders has been more of a socialist, especially with his followers becoming moody and angry about the up
coming Democrat Convention in July in Philly I think.

I'll be glad when he's out of the picture, but what about his followers and why did they follow him?

Who will they vote for now with Clinton and Trump being completely different from Bernie?

What about four years from now can they, should they or will they start another party with a socialist agenda?

I'm leaning towards thinking a new party will show up next election no matter which side wins.

This country is begging for a change from what I read and see :yep:

[Oberon]

Oh Bernie is definitely a socialist, I don't think he's made any attempt to disguise that fact, he's not as far left as some socialists, he's more what's known as a Democratic Socialist, but he's probably as far left as American politics can actually go without breaking.
As for his followers, most will probably pony up to Hillary for the same reason that the Trump haters will pony up to Trump, to stop the other one getting in the White House. There will be a selection on either side who can't stomach to vote for either, dunno what they'll do...maybe move to Canada or Poland. :hmmm:

[August]

Hillary Clinton lying for 13 minutes straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI

Quatro you can safely click this link! :)

[Rockstar]

Looks like Hillary may win by the narrowest of margins in Kentucky tonight. The Democratic race has been getting pretty raw in the late going with the many aggrieved Sanders supporters increasing facing off with the Democratic Party establishment.


In my opinion it was decided long before this so called democratic process began that Clinton would be handed the nomination. What we are seeing with Sanders and his followers just gives the impression there is a battle for that nomination. That and it makes good filler for the 24 hour news cycle. Its just crap heaped upon more crap.

edit

I could be wrong, maybe it is freedom and democracey in action and it really is an honest to goodness battle for the democratic nomination. Then again, ...

[Mr Quatro]

In my opinion it was decided long before this so called democratic process began that Clinton would be handed the nomination. What we are seeing with Sanders and his followers just gives the impression there is a battle for that nomination. That and it makes good filler for the 24 hour news cycle. Its just crap heaped upon more crap.

edit

I could be wrong, maybe it is freedom and democracey in action and it really is an honest to goodness battle for the democratic nomination. Then again, ...

I'm not knocking you Rockstar, but who in your opinion decided ahead of time that Clinton would win the nomination to run for POTUS?

I've always wondered who they are not who who is :o

Looks like a real race for the nomination to me, no matter if it is an election or the weather or anything ... the news media plays it up to sell more ad space.

My father is leaning towards Donald Trump and he isn't the type of person you can argue with.

I don't know what to do Trump stands for everything I am against and seems so wishy washy on major subjects.

Yet August might be on to something with this latest poll:http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/19/trump_leads_clinton_in_national_poll_is_it_time_to _freak_out.html



A new Fox News poll of registered voters—conducted over a four-day stretch that ended on Tuesday—found Donald Trump up three points on Hillary Clinton, 45 percent to 42 percent. The celebrity billionaire’s three-point advantage was within the survey’s margin of error, but it nonetheless marks a pretty drastic reversal from the same poll last month, which found Clinton with a relatively comfortable 7-point lead on her Republican rival.

Plus here's a hint on who Donald Trump's running mate and VP pick might be:
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/32017786/trump-helps-chris-christie-pay-off-his-campaign-debt


LAWRENCEVILLE, N.J. (AP) - Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, delivered a thank-you gift Thursday to the man who arguably risked the most to endorse him: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. Trump held a fundraiser that he claimed would pay off the entirety of Christie's debt from his presidential campaign.

[Torplexed]

Frankly, I have a growing gut feeling that Trump will be our next president. From what I can see of the tired, distracted and increasingly un-charismatic Hillary, I don't she stands much of a chance once the Trumpdozer fires up and starts to plow her under. And Trump is cannily stalking the Sanders vote too. While the GOP establishment just roll their eyes at Sanders, going for cheap groans with bits about socialism, Trump goes a different route. He hammers Hillary and compliments Sanders.

President Trump. Brace yourself America and the world. It looks like it's really happening.

[Catfish]

Frankly, I have a growing gut feeling that Trump will be our next president. From what I can see of the tired, distracted and increasingly un-charismatic Hillary, I don't she stands much of a chance once the Trumpdozer fires up and starts to plow her under. [...]

You already mentioned the feeling of being bored, mixed with fury for certain events blamed on the wrong people, while no political leader seems to be able to give the people a new spirit to cling to.
They do not see that it takes training, intelligence and hard, boring work to get goals.
They want something to be proud of, patriotic, and instantly.
Small steps, small improvements on a long way and real accomplishments, are not honoured at all.

Maybe time to look for a quiet place here on earth, to move to. Maybe.. the Solomones? :dead:

[Jimbuna]

:ping:

[Armistead]

Frankly, I have a growing gut feeling that Trump will be our next president. From what I can see of the tired, distracted and increasingly un-charismatic Hillary, I don't she stands much of a chance once the Trumpdozer fires up and starts to plow her under. And Trump is cannily stalking the Sanders vote too. While the GOP establishment just roll their eyes at Sanders, going for cheap groans with bits about socialism, Trump goes a different route. He hammers Hillary and compliments Sanders.

President Trump. Brace yourself America and the world. It looks like it's really happening.

It's gonna happen and I can't wait. He should also turn it into a tv show for us where he fires people in govt that doesn't get crap done....

[Oberon]

America will be the best comedy show on TV. :yep:

[em2nought]

Frankly, I have a growing gut feeling that Trump will be our next president. From what I can see of the tired, distracted and increasingly un-charismatic Hillary, I don't she stands much of a chance once the Trumpdozer fires up and starts to plow her under. And Trump is cannily stalking the Sanders vote too. While the GOP establishment just roll their eyes at Sanders, going for cheap groans with bits about socialism, Trump goes a different route. He hammers Hillary and compliments Sanders.

President Trump. Brace yourself America and the world. It looks like it's really happening.

All Trump has to do is offer Sanders VP, and he'll sew it up. Not much harm either, not like Sanders is going to run for POTUS in eight years. :03:

[Onkel Neal]

Frankly, I have a growing gut feeling that Trump will be our next president. From what I can see of the tired, distracted and increasingly un-charismatic Hillary, I don't she stands much of a chance once the Trumpdozer fires up and starts to plow her under. And Trump is cannily stalking the Sanders vote too. While the GOP establishment just roll their eyes at Sanders, going for cheap groans with bits about socialism, Trump goes a different route. He hammers Hillary and compliments Sanders.

President Trump. Brace yourself America and the world. It looks like it's really happening.


Well, I won't be voting for Trump, so it won't be my fault. :hmph:

[August]

Well, I won't be voting for Trump, so it won't be my fault. :hmph:

So you're saying then that Clinton will be? :)

[Onkel Neal]

No, not voting for Bill Clinton's wife either

[Buddahaid]

Leaves a pretty bad taste in ones mouth. :woot:

[Torplexed]

Well, I won't be voting for Trump, so it won't be my fault. :hmph:

Well, a couple of weeks ago I said I'd sooner vote for Caligula than Trump.

Looks like this election cycle it will be a straight Toga Party write-in ticket for me. :88)

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Caligula.jpg

[Oberon]

:hmmm:

http://i.imgur.com/fMSKc87.jpg

[u crank]

^
:rotfl2:

[Platapus]

President Trump. Brace yourself America and the world. It looks like it's really happening.


The US is strong. We can survive a Trump administration. We survived Bush, we can survive Trump. It won't be easy nor fun. It may take a while to recover, But I have to think that my country is stronger than any one person. I have to have something to believe in. :nope:

I shudder to think what both parties will offer up in 2020.

I consistently say that it can't get worse, and I am consistently demonstrated wrong.

[Torplexed]

I shudder to think what both parties will offer up in 2020.

I consistently say that it can't get worse, and I am consistently demonstrated wrong.

True that. I guess well have to learn to deal no matter who wins. Lately, that Steve Buscemi line from the movie Armageddon has been running through my head. :D

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Rockhound.jpg

[vienna]

The US is strong. We can survive a Trump administration. We survived Bush, we can survive Trump. It won't be easy nor fun. It may take a while to recover, But I have to think that my country is stronger than any one person. I have to have something to believe in. :nope:

I shudder to think what both parties will offer up in 2020.

I consistently say that it can't get worse, and I am consistently demonstrated wrong.

If Trump wins, it may have the same result as occurred in California when Schwarzenegger won the Governorship: the GOP Far Right was salivating when Arnold took office seeing an opportunity to wrench control from the dominant DEMs. One of the first actions they took was to place on the ballot a package of propositions the GOP had long sought to enact, a sort of CA version of the old GOP "Contract With America" that crashed and burned during the Clinton administration. The voters really gave a resounding bitch-slap to the GOP package by a very wide margin and across party lines. After hitting the wall of real politics, Arnold then took up a stance more in line with the DEM programs and basically sat out his terms in office. Schwarzenegger did leave the the state in an economic shambles, but the ship was righted by the current Governor Jerry Brown, who, while a DEM, has shown a far more middle to conservative leaning than the prevailing DEM attitudes. I really don't know what the CA state GOP leaders expected from Arnold: he was never really that wholeheartedly conservative and, for God's sake, he was married to a Kennedy. This may be something those voting for Trump may want to consider; Trump, a former Democrat and only recently a Republican, who is given to changing his views to suit what he perceives to be the prevailing public sentiment, and who has in the past had associations with less than conservative individuals and entities, may not, once he gets into office be inclined to espouse all those things current backers believe he will move to enact. Add to this his wide history of equivocations and downright lies in the face of prior facts and the future of a Trump presidency does not lend itself to the Far Right Utopia his supporters envision. Take his recent NRA endorsement: the Association endorsement was somewhat less than enthusiastic and the general membership appears to be ambivalent; perhaps the Association and its members still remember the Trump who, after the Sandyhook Massacre and Obama's call for tighter gun restrictions, posted this on Twitter:

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embed-lg/public/2016/05/20/screenshot2016-05-20at3.png


Eqully suspect is Trump's overall history on gun issues:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/campaign-2016-fact-checking-donald-trumps-nra-speech/

The question becomes: which Donald Trump would occupy the Oval Office and, given his propensity to backpedal and outright reverse course at a moments notice and his tendency to lie outright, could he be trusted to really come through with his pledges? Or will he, once faced with the cold facts of high level politics, fold like Schwarzenegger did in California, and become the DEMs White House asset? Farfetched? Perhaps not; perhaps what the GOP has is a Republican opportunist, a sort of Democrat in GOP conservative clothing...


<O>

[em2nought]

Hopefully he's not like either party because I frankly hate both. They get together on stupid crap like nation building just because it justifies a bunch of wild @ss spending. At least Trump doesn't have to buy votes. He just says something considered by the butt hurt to be outrageous, and the media gives him all the publicity he needs. LOL ...and bad press isn't necessarily a bad thing when people hate and distrust the press even more than the parties. :up:

[vienna]

Apparently, Trump is vacillating on the "vote buying" front, as well, although it seems he is more selling his "vote" than buying: after making much noise about not taking money from deep pocket interests, special or otherwise, Trump has lately been hitting up the usual suspect groups of GOP big donors for campaign contributions. How many reasonably intelligent, aware persons out there believe there is no quid pro quo arrangement that comes with those big bucks? Anyone ?... Anyone?... Bueller?...



<O>

[Catfish]

I am wondering if the system might be flawed, if someone like Trump can really become president :yep:
Just heard on the TV, that the NRA will now jump the bandwagon and support Trump. It really happens :hmmm:

[vienna]

Current cover of The New Yorker:


http://www.pdfmagaz.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/19/the-new-yorker-23-may-2016/The-New-Yorker-23-May-2016-440x537.jpg




<O>

[August]

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/04-APR/MAD-Magazine-Game-Hillary_552bf3900ab314.20842038.jpg

[Torplexed]

http://i.imgur.com/xxecFBF.gif

[vienna]

History repeats itself?:


https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e975be6949895ca0ce4e9b0869479155?convert_to_webp=t rue


...and remember the great truism: Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it...

[Oberon]

Hitler didn't build a wall though...that was the French. :hmmm:

[August]

Wow a Democrat accusing their enemy of being nazis. Ho hum...

By the way Godwins law and all that...

[nikimcbee]

Wow a Democrat accusing their enemy of being nazis. Ho hum...

By the way Godwins law and all that...


So if we're the Nazis now, just think of all the cool U-boat games that will come from this. Maybe Trump can terrorize the left with the IRS brownshirts. Does Trump have a Z plan yet?

[Oberon]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/donald-trump-nazi-salute_zfa2xx.jpg
"I'm going to build a huge navy, right, and I'm going to make the Royal Navy pay for it."

[August]

"I'm going to build a huge navy, right, and I'm going to make the Royal Navy pay for it."

We did and you did. It was called "Lend Lease" remember? :)

[Jimbuna]

We did and you did. It was called "Lend Lease" remember? :)

Cheeky blighter!! :stare:

Bout time you put it to good use in the South China Sea then :03:

[Aktungbby]

Hitler didn't build a wall though...that was the French. :hmmm:

Ahem! the 'Atlantic Wall'??!! :arrgh!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Wall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Wall) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Atlantikwall.png

[Rockstar]

We did and you did. It was called "Lend Lease" remember? :)

:har: oh man coffee shot out my nose when I read that. that was a good one.

[vienna]

Wow a Democrat accusing their enemy of being nazis. Ho hum...

By the way Godwins law and all that...

Oh, wow, pots and kettles again! :haha:

This from the person who has referred to Clinton as "Hitlery" in their past posts; I guess that makes August an honorary, if not full fledged, Democrat... :haha:

...and if you doubt the above, just use the "search this thread" feature and type in the term "hitlery"; hypocrisy abounds!... :haha:



<O>

[Platapus]

I am wondering if the system might be flawed, if someone like Trump can really become president :yep:

In the United States, anyone can grow up to be president. That is just one of the risks we have to accept.

[Oberon]

We did and you did. It was called "Lend Lease" remember? :)

Beautiful return, sir. :salute: :yeah:

Ahem! the 'Atlantic Wall'??!! :arrgh!:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Wall (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Wall)

Ah, good point, I forgot about Rommels wall. :yep:

In the United States, anyone can grow up to be president. That is just one of the risks we have to accept.

Good old Adlai. :yep: :up:

[August]

Oh, wow, pots and kettles again! :haha:

This from the person who has referred to Clinton as "Hitlery" in their past posts; I guess that makes August an honorary, if not full fledged, Democrat... :haha:

...and if you doubt the above, just use the "search this thread" feature and type in the term "hitlery"; hypocrisy abounds!... :haha:



<O>

Nice try but one is just a personal opinion and the other is a political ad that somebody is paying to create and promote. Those smileys you overuse are nothing but nervous laughter as you try and dodge the simple fact that playing the nazi card is a well worn democrat tactic.

[August]

Beautiful return, sir.

:D

Said with nothing but love and respect for you Lobsterbacks!

[Fr8monkey]

Those smileys you overuse are nothing but nervous laughter as you try and dodge the simple fact that playing the nazi card is a well worn democrat tactic.
You're right. The republicans never did that to Obama...

http://static.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/obama-hitler.jpg

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/01/republicans_comparing_barack_obama_to_hitler_my_fa vorite_examples_of_the.html

[Nippelspanner]

You're right. The republicans never did that to Obama...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/01/republicans_comparing_barack_obama_to_hitler_my_fa vorite_examples_of_the.html

Just let it go Fr8.
He is a Trump supporter.
What else do you need to know about someone?

:shifty:

[August]

You're right. The republicans never did that to Obama...

Well geez you think it might have been somebody taking revenge for this?:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQTEhQUExQWFRUXGBcaFxgYGBoYGBcYGhcXFxgaGh gcHCggGBwlHBYUITEhJSksLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0O GxAQGzEkICQ3NDAsMDcsNCwtLSwrLCwtNDQsNywsLywsLDQ3ND QvLDQsNCw1NDcsLC8sLCwsLDQsLP/AABEIAMEBBQMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAACAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAEBQMGAAEHAgj/xABEEAABAwIEAwUFBQYEBQUBAAABAAIDBBEFEiExBkFREyJhcY EykaGxwQcjQtHwFDNScuHxYoKSshU0RHOiJIOUwtIX/8QAGgEBAAIDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIDAQQFBv/EADQRAQACAgECAwUGBAcAAAAAAAABAgMRBAUhEjFBE1FhgcEGI jJx0fAUkaGxFTM0NUJS4f/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8Ae1g7qr8ovcFPKx12KrzPdnA5ILFhAytsp MSZ3dFFQO0Ch4irxGwX3OwG5WJnSzFivlvFKRuZK3OsbX/shql9tP17klkqnF+a+vy8EfFVZyL79PqFGuSLTp1Od0fLxccZP OPX4T+gsm/0QlQ8DdE1jwwXP9/BI5Xl26XvFUOn9Jy8uJtE6iPX3yNE4N9UDVTvadNkPTRljtyQU TJJdYtkiI2nxejZ82W1LfdivnP6N4fWuJsU1B5oGkeOeh+a9xV N3Ftip1tExtz+VxsnHyTjyR3GtbfVa/ahmazxF7clFV1OQWHtH4JdCwuOm6rvfU6h1+ndJjJitmzzqup1 +p6+YNuL+XJLH4oGmx5/BR1hu7Q+dkYyla8ahWuBPYRQ1GfVHxAHmkk0wi7rd/kjMFk7tudz6qPi3OobtuDkpxv4i3aJnUfEwEzTpeyuXCWKAjsn bgd3XdUPEqC+rUVhz3xkEaOapNJ1q6DxLEWwtuSL8hdIuH+Ju2 e5jhYht/O1khxStdPM7LqGnbfS/RBPW4iZXZnEb9L7cunwUE0wA5N9SR8NEMyFw2Dm+Qtf3jVMmYc 97hmLi0Dnz08roK9VYtNq1jY9PZPePu5WS0CoB7QyFpHK/tNBF7W20v7lezSsZyVQ4ghc03Zz1t0d1B8UDym4okp8mudp3BN/DzXRMPrmSxtkZs4e7wXzy+ukcW5+6AdyNAV0r7N65wLo3OzMeM zT0cNx6jX0QdGBW1C1SAoPQW2lRiy9NsgyY7frotrxLy/XRYg5rJVC9ikWL1TWuCnqCTrzVT4mcczTfmLoLdRV/d8lWa2rdK8vebn4AdAi8MP3enQpaqM0+T1X2bpWYyW137d2Oma TpothyURvMhsL6E68gmrQo3iIns6PSORl5GK1c0brHbfv+CeXE xlyu1UN0DLCHOJ5Ao0bJl8oa/Qp1lzUr+GJ7R85FSNaxrXHmENcHUbIjEAHRsHghWNsLdFnJH3Y VdGy3tzM0Wnfn/dNFUtbvusimDSSLXS6rgu4G/opzhrsmbkraR91xOo2tPMve3eInX8vRO91zco+B7Gt89zdLYtt Vrsx4qqkxWZ29D1PFm5eHFHG/DP7jfwg3wsMLspNy7ZHCw9EgieWkEbgr1jMjrlzCbHVWUv4tuJ 1XpkcOKTWdxPn+bKl13u80TRzCNubnfQdUvjJsL7r2SqItqZl6 u/DpyePjrfyjUz8oH02Kva8lxLgdx+SsTHhzczDe4/XkqaCj8NqS29uZVmO071Lkdb4GCcEcjF21ry8pg9wqd0M4fbQg tcPAhN+HYtHOfe7nb+G/wBSg6SXMzUeiYYXLncQy/dIabAcmt2J0Hmr3kjtwa3oPE6rDUDkHHyafyUZkYDpuNzcE+pK X4hjUcXtX95/oEGqybW5uPNpASyoiD7l1udtedrod/EMUjrRMe7Xe7gvVQBI0tB39CD4oKNjMBDr8r9L+8bJ5wviwglj Lj3A9u/QmxNuW5STiCodG7K8XzAeR6fJTU2EuDGmYua4jMxjQHEtuDnk1 7oNrADVB9Ct6j9frReyUFhbwYYiNQWMI/0hFXQbBXtrlEFtqDcp/XuWLUpGn66LEHJ2WLVUeJRytzT3BZifaXjHaQWzIFfD8pII6A/JQLeDzNa5w6rSozej1v2Z/Dk+X1RwQhosB4qcuYGOLjsDZByVdnWsbcz0KIe0OBB1BVcbrO5 di/s+Tgvh499THbsVw1reqaBVCrjyyOYL2BsFb2bBTy+jj/Zyk0vlrPnGvqjmLuWui9x3trumEFC6zTa4OqGq/bdyWcn4YQ6J/rcvz/ujbCbZraD4J7gDmyMfCd7Xb49QgKaoDIXXtY3CCpqgtIew2IOh WO9dWbUVx8yM3FntaJmY/X6PdTCWuIPXRREqeeZ0jyTuTsPotVVO5hs4WNr+ihadzt0ODhn i8euCbR49TP7+CJuouFsR5tEfSUpe0loutYOQ2bK4b3Hr+grdR W0THq4XtcnN4eXHl/HSd/v+peW206J7QYLnpzLuSSAOgH1SmuH3j/Mq08MYk0Qdmd7u+KhSPvN7q2W1On08M63qPlpUXMym1rWUlNOG 7onG2gSut4fJQ09JnYT0KzX/ADEeZ/tFfyr9DuhxHb5r3WFxje+K5dfM4Dm7UAW530S+GKwVi4Zka1xz X7w08CFsPGKvTU+Ihzrstba5Gt9SAfmrFjeBF5YwSEHL3udzur BUBrbuuXOOgvqddDYctL+5DYn++JaL6DwFt90FVoOEY2uJdLLt o25GU6XI92yfRYa1jb5iehO/90fDWtcP8QS3Eqkk76IKtxLQCYt63APiL/3Tc072skc4t7zu7bcBlmgX5j+qCqjYX8/6K14Bh4kkZGTmAId4Bt81z4m9kF3wemyQQtP4WNHuCNyKZrV6y oBnN8FgaiXNUdkEUo2/XRYtzO2W0Hz3Rzua4p452eOx3QssQILgllBi4vboUA7KTK8jbc rFLilU3tAeunz/ACUdlr5Z7vZ/ZzFFcNreLcz6e5kkIDtr3AK2FjnE7pdiuJiIWGrj8FGZm/ZuYMGHpuO2W89585+kJXcOl5Mt/aJICLASg8TO7MMDdev5IqCqu4jpurL13DhdK6hXFnva0drz/Lzk+w/EC2zXat5X5f0Q2IfvH+aHW1VNp1qXp8XDxVzTnx/8o7+6fi8SMzWF9Bde+xyjTZYCvQDue30V1dWpp5fle04PUfaf9 p38p94vB5AH35jZH8QvaWM/iv8ABKGAtNxsvM0pcblYvMVr4V3TK5+ZzP4q86iv71H1OOGqqx cw+YRklK1sjpOZAI52vcX+CU0ULm94bprWXc1wJIJY3b+ZylWJ 8MbafNzY55eT2NtVtGpn5xtXal13uPUleqUOBzDko5Yy02KKoo DYk3H9eaqx78Tu9WpitwYjx9o1qfPfojxCTM8nwCOwYAseL63F uuyWTRFp+qYYRQOJD9gNvH+iV342eZXD/hnh8f3dRqffo5pYQdwoqmoEbhysf72Rc7cgS2pjza78/otl4Y+Dy+2pAte439CqRLiNRLV9lJFK+IPy7lvk420KtNJNmZk zZXfhPTr5oLEYMhIkmqH3OtnNYD5ZW3HvQO2MY1obltl2PP380 JVMtc66pfR0cR1BkA5Xke4/EqTEqy2Vg8EC/EHgA/q52CuP2RRgCa97gjLc37pFrehCptBTCaZxd7DNN93EfQLonDoD S23dHTqgvLV61XlhuvQQeXqm8bVlRAWvjeQw6HbQ8ldCEuxnDx PE+N3MaeB5H3oOVy8Q1J17Z3NYltdTujeWOuC0kW8lpAjqsQLW EdVXI3FuvMlW7FKVrwQLXBSo4eBYO66IA5ySLnX+x/NT8PvLwQ46DQHxRT8OcGPPLl7lX8PlIvY2N7b6LExE+a7FyMuK d47TH5GslQ/PlFrXPyCDmo84cXe0L6p3T0V2h/TfzKCxJjtQxpcTyAJPuCRWIWcjl5c9YjJaZ18VUeLG3NE0sxBJ vyPvsnOE8F1dVmc1oZa1+1JZv0BGqaxfZfXDlCf/AHf6LLXraazsFhFc0/vNvcm8gjIu34lbP2f1jRdwiA2/eD8kxZwnOxoDuzv4P38rqM1iWzj53Ix18NLzER8SaJFx2dy/NF4dgEssr4mgZ2am5sPeLg7pzFwXODrJEP8AMf8A8rMa12R5Ns ntPFeZ3qJ/ordVCbactUZgtCLGR/8AlH1Vjj4Rk5yxa/zfkiJOGZmjTI7+V35gKM0ibbbOPqeXHxZ49fX1+Eq/RbnzRVY5tz4tHzP5rbsMljPejePQke8aJfXuIdqCNOY8VNo09f yDTMva/IiymiYOf9kG5/z6oqM6LERG0rXt4Kxvt/6ONK0sII6cvEJtUU4aG225BKIhmBF7bfApjM64Gqa77Ym8zjiu/Lfb+QirjDgAlZisbcuiLDiCo5SC66yqeYKXMfiPML1ieJR04Bn YRc2znUX1033W5K1kLXSSEBrRcn5AdTfSyXVGGurmNfIbA3sy9 wwa6eLup66BBLJj8Bb3Mp6W5pCXSTSXvlHK26KPDUcBAkkFz7L BrI7yYNSn2G4G4gWHZN9DJ8iGfEoBsKpQwhmoPJtrvPUhv12Vz w/DHgCxEfibPf4f4R8V4wnCo4vYb3ju46ud5uOpVhgsgKw0ZBZzn En+I393K3gjwECwNt1utNlLTvdp67j8wgYkLy8Lw2QLbze6Cl8 WcMCeRsjDlJFnab22WIunxxuaRkhyujeR5jcFYg5IKihMmUVYs 7XNZwAudtbJgOFmzNvT1TH631/oVXuKuG4WDNGws1GgOg9CkFPgdS3WI/6XZSg6pQcKTZCyQs15g3G3RD0X2VsBvJO4+DGhvxJKqdNxJW0B awntHyNzZHEvc0chpzIF1FUfaRX3OzPDIdEHW8P4VpoW2DM9ub yXH46BHSVMcDMzmxwt66BchoftNq9nR9oerQQfcAgq+krsVl7R zezDQAA9xa0eQIuT6IHvHXHDHztELg5rW2Nts1zfXrayRw8cua ALG453VUxbDX08hiktmHQ3BHUHog0F9j+0SZrge8QOVxr4G42V mw7j+mqgGTsMTtr/AIT4+C5DTzZSppGg6tPog6vW9tT3mpZS+M6230RFF9oEUndlJY 4c7Gy5dhHEMtObA3bzaU3kqoKnUDK/6oOmyVHaszRyXHUJZT8WPpX5ZjnjPPm1c9pcQmpXZmOu3mORTy bFY6mMvaLn8TOfmPBB0+mxGOdnaQSXHMA6jzCjqKnO0tla2RvQ 6+7oVxWmxF0D+1pnFp5tPPwsnz+JTUNzMcWSD2o76Hxb+SC202 DUk0mQzPidyjNr+jinT+GKZgtnk87gn3WXHK/FM/t5g4bHbVNMG45kYBHUfeN/C8+23prz9UF+pcMDnO7F4kDd9mlvmCURHg8jzZzmx+fePuB+q5 xW4xJHL28LiDblsQeRHNOaHiJjo3Thz3PHtRk6g/VqC0/8Gqb7Nyg+1mFrfxWveyghkphE+aSUuYwkd1pbmcNLNvvchVmDj SVzgxrc3adzLe1nE6Ee9RuoXiSCnkdZocA1jbZpHk95xH4G+fI bICMVvUkPmtFTxNMjYWjV3QvPjy57qXC8XqqqNkVJGKaMDvSnv O13LeQJN9kw4peJHxUkYsHkB1v4Gi5JO/K3qrRBTtjY1rAByACALA8BjguRd8p9uV5Lnn1PyCexQ220WQxW HiVIXDZB7DDyWqio7Mb6+/UrzLUBrb3SSOvD5cxOgvl9NCbeZQF4jiMjQGsfZ17uPT/CET/xBzonjUnLf1026JaDcknmiaVoIPkUDzCcSu2zzbp4dEwdVEA+q qNMzM17f8J+CeUNR2kTCd7WPjyQc5x6VxnkO1ysTTiPCj2l2je 62gScVNuwtskFNWljbP0tzsrTxBCSQQLdbeSQ4lQNlFho7r6IG GAdm5r5cgzm932u6wGmqiybG1/NS4RR/s9O4E30O+wXmglBHXRBrh+EOnu7xTjFqZ0DhIwG3PmkVC49ocp NxdW/DqkStyP38bboKxxOynqIbuALxaxGjrqgvwVhdlBc07a6hXrizC uxmjLfZJFxra+qrlU0iS/JAjq+GKhlyG9o0c2a/DdJ3NINjcEctiusUk4LABuo8SwyGYfeMaTbQjR3+oaoOVFyxr7 K21nBvONxHg4X/wDIfkklZgFRHcujcWj8Te8PggEFY7qtR1bmuzNOU+CgIWrIGMs jZdfYf0/C78kG4OYb7Ecx+ajUrZTz1QHR4nn0lFzydz9VuemFrjUJa5vRS Q1BagLpqss7pvb5KOUlpzNPqsLw/wA1FmtodkFg4TjJe+XlG3T+Y6DXyurfwtD96+aSMh7WkhxJI10 FgfVV/AYWfswyTR5+0u+N2jtdA4X0cAAPirFJX5KZ53JJt1NtvegI4ZB mqp5zqGfds8zdzz/tVxgl55ST/KUh4aYyngYwvYHnvPu5oJe7vO3N+dvRWCOUEhpe0HKXAF1rgc/LZBL+1utpG8n/ACj6qGSeTlG4+RbdBy4kyNgdLKxpI3LgAf5RuQl8vEFM7Rs7Lj lmsfcSgixTFS37kgh+lhcE67bHyUGEfvpr/hDWA8tL3/8AIn3BV3A6wy1E9Q43DAXNv1Jys9wCsGCMIhLj+J3v/V0DqJ/PzTKhde9+iTwPuQmVLJYn5IC6bcgdCt4TUENttYu/P5XXimd3ioI5chcSNntPvuEDssDwDa6xKosQAuByJWIFmN0926 e5V2elIaHaX3RWOYw6GxOo8+Smo69s8fIXGyBPLO58eXbQ3Q2C yEXaUXUU+VxHJeP2W+35IPGGH746p+RbvDdV7CKd5k0vorKWkN IPRBVOJ8XL5o2Hlry8UHBZ5GuqsmF8KNrKmRz3FoZYDL1sia37 PJY7mF4eOQdofegEoKINYDfVeBHbdEso5om2ewgjc2+qgkkvbZ AY+XK3Vqjgqb6gIeWpBFih/wBrsNEGq+kicbvjYb/4R80Kzh6nfYdiz0FkQ+UmwKY0YsQgTVPClKLDshr0LvzS2r4Kh 3a57fXMPjqrhVRkuCiq4S1t0HPn8IG9mzA+bbfVD1HCs4HdyvH gbH3FXGOO5K9sdqg5xU4VNH7cb2+NtPeNFFA0vLW83EAepsuw0 kmnJDV2QkfdsL7905Ro7kb+G/ogrEmBGOVxiyDs2kucQXBoAvsTYOPTl6ozCIzP+zsdrcmR/wDKCbaeJyppjLBHTOY3dxAc487nU+N/qpuH6cNLnAaNDY2+TRf8vcgZw8MUzRcQsJvckgEk890o4mwB7o 2PYxrWg2Zc/u772aNwbXsdFYY6o6jw6gCw33SSvdUyObG85WE57B18wafADu+ Gt776IAInw0TM0ju0nfu92rvIdB4KvcRYv2zD3W8rHn+t0XxFA HnqQqpISw2OoQXXhGE/sTjzkkt6MsPndW6SNoZGwch+ik2Dx2p6VoFgWg+rjf6lNZXAyO IINtBr0sgNo2aphSk5rX/qhGEBg9VlG8Zhrv8AVA0pfaN+hUGIQEsNtO8z/cFPAe87yKJiaCB0NvgUFYrqd4e4jW5WK0ywDRYg4TQ18k8jWyd 4X+qs1VQOhLXMNh0/XJVXhpv3rdOYXR6tzbC9gf6IFVHWGQd4a356JhFFlBJ6bKs4jW Bj7N5lWGjrg+PlchATgEw7Q8gm2Myta24sq3hUF3kAr1Wxva4Z zdoI5oLLwJUEun/mHyCuBluqVwbUNPalpv37H0AVmdOgIkcDoldZhcUm7Bfw0+Sld UeKFnxONu7wPVAtq+F2n2XEeeqUS4DIw+yHDwP9E7n4ijbsb+S hpcXdMTZtgOuqBbHg7vaDUPBmEtiLHmrjEe74qvYhMDPpyGqAe oec1v0dUNUzG1ip6mSxuUHObi6D1QNuD5oB2jj0vsjcMYbH9ao OVhufP6oC6Umylhgu4uP4efIX3Kgi0Giwl7ixgFmElzz1y2ytt vqbE/yoAeL5srYxs1z2/Bzd/enNC3Kxo8Mx8zqfmFW+LsQjeWMBzdnMy7b6nujN8wERNxDY9mG ZHEaNL239Ou3wQZieKufJ+zscxzX2aAWO0Lvb+8BG7b6AHZR1O Kt7jwGB0xd3mSF4ETA1oaL2yanaw2KWV8dWHtkYHDKcw/dkX6gEpXGHR6lmpvuPllugs1PTh3evqeqWY3RRMY97rXGjR1O/ruEPR4y1p72UDzP1SrF6oy3dm7oJIB89PhZAHJUONsznGwtqTo OVugW6Vj3ODWBxc4gANvck6AaKEDmrdwRWmkElb+zmcRFjL3Fo 8+rnHnewsDtqgZ1PCYo4RJX1r4nkXbBC7NIf9RAHnsOqK4fwTE ZqY1FK+QhriBFO2xe3k5jiLO9LBR/aJU0r30+I00rXSPILoX972Nblp2AIykeK9v4mxWpZ+3xlrYKZ4 vFG6w0tfMzdzbHn10GiDWE/aG9jyyrisdWktBDmnbvMcev9l0jCalskLXsc1zTqCNdFyb7TnQ yyQVkGjaqMucBpaSMta6/jqAfJHfZFiTu1kgJJa5hcByBB1t00KDpMlWBzWLVVhbzYjn/TxWkHIuHKA5g6+nx3VvrmA7aqi0Na5keh1CvvDNVG+DvEE21vu EFOqaUOmFzpdNm05jAy9CldeQastZ3rG4srCx34TvbYoBcJr3M dc+qzijFc8fd3K3BDqUNiEQ6aWKAPg7i39n7SN7Sbm4IT2XjWR/sNDB4m5VBbD97JbkpoHn0QWtuNyPvnefkPgvJNwSoKSgBbf9WR dNDyKDVGx0jg3ror9huHtjYAPU+KrlE1sZa4q1xEOAIIKDeQ7c lWq+ANnA6hWYd0EkqpzVPaVBI2GgQEStbzXiWIZdPehq5moR2G U2bQ7IAYGaHWyByd4681bJ8Ga1hdtoqpJa58CUBEQ5KZgG17b6/E/NBRS2BN9vRK6LF2l9ifG6BFxQGx1TgxoIdHzJ0cR7fmLDRJKio cXkuPyO21kzxOcTdvMTrmyx+IDT8wUvpqftgQPbaCbdQNUFhw+ nNZCPvCJW6WvoR70jrcOmjOV90NSYg+NwcwkeSueG8RRVADKhg DuqCimJy8FhCu2K8PttmiII6c1UaxhabdEEbPFX37LOI4qaWSG ot2NQAHE7B2wv4EG3uVKoqXNdz2vLBuWlo+Lkyxbh90be1gf+0 QH8bfaZ4SNHs+eyDqFZw3h+EtfWmN1Tmd9y32mMuLtBOotf8AE 7yUX2Z4DV9vJVuY2mpZsxdC4Eh7XagBp9kC+567LlWHYpUR2ZF K9gJGmYhvhptunGOV2JiP7+aZ8TuYfdh87fVBJ9oE1KKgQUYAg hDgCCSHSOOaQgncCwHomf2QR/8AqZX/AMMdv9Th+RVBYV0L7JmENneNszG+4En5hB2l9WwBtysVAxd8pL ct7arSDkkZN9Cf1yR4mc0XDiD6gIyiwtp1vvyspazDCG7IBMDn 7KYPk1B3P1VuxGrZKW9nqfD+6Fiwphg13sl2EyCCUE6jYhA5pI 3NJDrgobF32GibvrWS2Oy2OG5Khu4YDztc+5BzvCYi90hHqiI6 Uh1ir5h3ABhDssuYu6tt9UqrsAliPfZbodwfVB4or5CAmNJTG1/VK6CqyusVbIADH6IK/iMmUCxQ2F44+N1rm3Tkm1Vh4dzQrMFb1Qeq3HZJQWjQHdD4WD2 g1UwobG312UtNCO1F9kDCaG7h5J/gsIyXPVJpntBFrXtsj21T44bhpNgUD3FI/uX6fhPyK5dPLqbdVfG40x8B11LTfzsue1LDmdy+SCZ77xSDmWm 3uXPXTG9+a6DGbclJT/ZoyaF0sVQc5BIZlGW5vZt73PRBQqSjdKwMabAAuJ5Be+H4SKhu axa27iCdCBy8r2UT6p7GGK2Q3s/rcaEHyKEghfK4NYC92wA1QW92HwwNJljJO/d1AudPQ8j+SU1mJU50jis7qd/QdUymweoZGxlTKI7CwaB2klr6AG4y9N0xFO2jDCwFz93OfYu8B e2lkHvh7h6ctD5HGMEAhmucjx07vluj8Rip8r2PpmyOAJHJxP8 ANvdWDB69s4zsIL7atvrdIcZlkbK10jMtr7be9BQJ/wBjJsWTwnwLZB8bH4ovC5Yqd3axVevNhjcM4/hcNiCmeK4dHNdzSL/RV2qwgt5hBcmR0NY28b208pPsvIDb/wCHp5JnSu7CJ0Mr45DuMpDhZctkpCFlPKW7GxQOuIcOa1wkYCG k962w8QFfvs8bHHSEg3D5HkEixIByg28gqjhANTli35vP8I6q3 SSZbNZoBoAOQG2iC7zOYQ3QbeCxU9+KkBoJ6+KxAu4eoczgbaK yVeGBwtbVG4NSARiwG31U0ktnWQVfE6ZzAG2S2owvMzMOnxTjH MVAdl5r3hsgyG/MIEWAn71rX7D6a2XUYWggEWsRoud1FGLOLSQdwddCNivHDnHRi f2EzdBvbdviB+JnPqEHT2xrctK1wLXAEHdQ0VSyVodG4OaRoRq EW0oOe8R8JmG8kV3R7kblv5hS4dhj3QCUSMI2sDqOWviugsF9L JWzhsRsmEYAzvLwOmg0+B96Cn/sJ6rH4e7l8/enE0DmEtcLO0XhsZ5NPuKBO2gI6aoZsFpRm2T00kjjpG//AEn8l5h4eme/WMhvV2iBNXR97unkmn/GmiEtI1tZGVfDMuYZGHbU3AHpzUB4QqXfha3zcgqrH2vdwaD1N kNLBrrI3XbmnlZ9kckpLnzgO5DUgfBCM+x+rIANXGANu682+IQ QU+GF47rg7r+gn32bgw/tIeTl7Xu3FrHKC4Drq5MeGfs9kpXZnVIdfcBlh8XJziPCMcjCw yOYLg3bYW1ugpHEXD9Gap1Q5shzalgdlaXD8Vxrr0ugWYwwTxx sZExoudDlI5Aiw7zteaujuAKe1n1Up05vYPohP/51hQsXSm45mcD5FAhxNjYs07wG/wAN9SSeiqeI4k2VpNx+vmusS8M4S4Na+TtQ3YOne8DTkMyyPhf BhtStd5Ryvv8AAoOBGse12aN5aR0KMl4gq6gCMvdJ0a0XJ9wuv oKmwHDgBkoB/wDHP/2Cc4fSQx6xUwjPhG1pt6IOGYF9nGI1AzOAp2HnJ7R/yDX3ptJ9i1Uf+riP+Rw+q7HU1ZY0u7NxAtfVt7bX35KY1LcjnN c0237wsPM8kHzbjf2aYhAbdiZm8nRHMD5jcKGj+zrEZCAKV7bn d1mgeeq+mmFxAPd1HUn9BeXtfp3mgeRP1Qc3wT7OpaaMNZYuPt EkC5/JMX8BSWBztzcxrYevNXrsn/xj0b/VadE7m8+4fkg51V/Z7MSPvYx6OWK/Tx9Xu58wPosQVLC/YS6t9s+SxYgpeKfvz5/RMqX2T5BYsQEn2PT6rlVf/wA47/uLaxB1/wCzb93J/wBwq7OWliAuj3Rz1ixAtl9s+iKCxYgl5L1yWliD0FtuyxYgw/konraxAjxXmqPjCxYgVYf7YV1wLYLFiC1UvL9ck3jWLEGScljv yWLECviX/lKj/tv/ANpXMfs6/wCu/l+ixYg6rg/7iL+QItm366rSxBsqqcR+yfNYsQc1xf21tYsQf//Z

Or this:
http://www.thepinkflamingoblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BushHitler-223x300.jpg

or this:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_tesla/tesla23_06.jpg

or this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/autorank/bushnazi2.jpg

or this:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/gwworldnazi.jpg

And a million more...

[Catfish]

^ touché :haha:

However we should not wait long trying to get our goals (like e.g. visiting Cuba) before Trump bombs us all into oblivion :O:

[Fr8monkey]

Just let it go Fr8.
He is a Trump supporter.
What else do you need to know about someone?

:shifty:

I know. I have to deal with the Trumpers in my family. Just sad how far the republicans have fallen.

[August]

Just let it go Fr8.
He is a Trump supporter.
What else do you need to know about someone?

:shifty:


So personal attacks is all you got? Maybe you should mind your own Merkel. :yep:

Oh and as far as being a Trump supporter:

I have no choice but to vote for Trump because the Democrats seem determined to nominate a female Lex Luthor wannabe. I'd much rather see the clown than the criminal in the oval office. The former is far more manageable.

If the Democrats come to their senses and nominate somebody actually decent then maybe i'd support them.

But yeah what else do you need to know right?

[Fr8monkey]

Cut...

[Sailor Steve]

He is a Trump supporter.
Based on what August has said in the past I don't see him as a Trump supporter so much as a Hillary hater.

My problem is that I agree with him: "Anybody but Hillary". Unfortunately I also agree with "Anybody but Trump". For me there is no lesser of two evils. I see them both as equally undesirable.

So personal attacks is all you got?
That might not be as personal as it looks. If someone really is terrified of Trump, pointing out that someone else supports Trump may be an insult, but it applies equally to a broad range of people.

I did find this interesting:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Socialism_zpsfzsdyyio.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/Socialism_zpsfzsdyyio.jpg.html)

[Jimbuna]

Announced on Sky News ten minutes ago that Trump has the 1,237 delegate votes he needs to be the official Republican presidential nomination at the July convention.

[eddie]

You are just full of good news today, aren't you Jim!!:haha:

[AndyJWest]

Announced on Sky News ten minutes ago that Trump has the 1,237 delegate votes he needs to be the official Republican presidential nomination at the July convention.

My condolences the the citizens of the U.S.

[Catfish]

First i wonder why B. Sanders had no Chance, he is by far the one who is at least honest, and reasonable. Then, Mrs Clinton may be wrong, corrupt and unsympathetic, but against a loose cannon on deck ... it really happens :hmmm:

[Oberon]

First i wonder why B. Sanders had no Chance

He's a socialist in America. That's the answer.

[August]

He's a socialist in America. That's the answer.

No, poll after poll shows voters would prefer him over both Clinton and Trump.

The real reason why he has no chance is because the Democratic Party views him as a party outsider, which he is, and they hate him even more than the GoP insiders hate Trump.

[Fr8monkey]

He's a socialist in America. That's the answer.
The U.S. is already socialist and doesn't know it.

[Onkel Neal]

My condolences the the citizens of the U.S.

Thank you. Many of us did not deserve this.

[August]

Thank you. Many of us did not deserve this.

I don't want anyone's condolences.

[Betonov]

I don't want anyone's condolences.

Enjoy the ride ??

[August]

Enjoy the ride ??

Not really, just tired of expressions of fake sympathy.

[Betonov]

Not really, just tired of expressions of fake sympathy.

Some may really be symphatetic you know.
Especially those of us that live in an export dependent countries and any economic or social earthquakes in the US could result in plumeting revenue for our companies.
Especially where I work where 1 in 20 products is not being exported abroad

[Platapus]

Announced on Sky News ten minutes ago that Trump has the 1,237 delegate votes he needs to be the official Republican presidential nomination at the July convention.

Only if you count the unbound delegates. Like the Super Delegates of the DNC, these can change their minds at any time.

[Fr8monkey]

But considering he is going into California with no opposition, it is pretty much a done deal.

[STEED]

For better or worst Americans will have to choose who will be President. Just like here last year we got stuck with that Toff Boy Cameron again and this time he has a free hand, granted limited.

Unless all you guys are going to stay at home drinking beer on the the big day. :hmmm: :03:

[Onkel Neal]

Oh boy....


It’ll be YUGE! Trump WILL debate Sanders on national TV as Democrat vows to make him feel the Bern (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3610893/Bernie-accepts-Trump-s-challenge-debate-California-Hillary-left-sidelines.html)

Hillary will stay home and wipe her server some more.

[August]

For better or worst Americans will have to choose who will be President. Just like here last year we got stuck with that Toff Boy Cameron again and this time he has a free hand, granted limited.

Unless all you guys are going to stay at home drinking beer on the the big day. :hmmm: :03:

Wish I could but election day is on a Monday so I have to work.

[Fr8monkey]

Election days are on Tuesday...

[vienna]

Nice try but one is just a personal opinion and the other is a political ad that somebody is paying to create and promote. Those smileys you overuse are nothing but nervous laughter as you try and dodge the simple fact that playing the nazi card is a well worn democrat tactic.

One was based on a comparison to a mythical, imaginary tale (much like the GOP's insistence the majority of Americans wholeheartedly support their candidates and stances) and the other is a comparison to historical precedent; myth versus reality; as Robin Williams once said "Reality! What a Concept!"; you should try it sometimes...

As far as payment and promotion, do you have any actual, verifiable, reputable evidence the Democratic party is directly responsible for such Hitler comparisons? I would rather much guess you do not, as I do not have any direct evidence of GOP direct involvement in other such Clinton comparisons. This is the era of anonymous hit-and-run politics where those with the wherewithal and savvy can, on their own, easily put forth any sort of propaganda without the consent or approval of the major parties. Your accusations of official collusion are just that, accusations, with neither fact nor substance. It has been a major and growing problem where broad generalities, factual or not (more often not) are taken and accepted as specific fact; this sort of "fast-food" shaping of public opinion is the backbone of the talk radio world and has been progressing into the legitimate press; along with the erosion and cheapening of the electoral process, this is part of the continuing "dumbing down" of the American electorate...

So, show your cards: where are your facts? Otherwise, as you put it, nice try...

As far as the smileys are concerned, my laughter is by no stretch nervous. I merely find your postings very amusing. It is rather like watching someone trying to dig a hole in loose sand; no matter how much they try, the sides keep caving in. The only reason I respond to your posts is to correct the usually misleading, if not fully erroneous, pap put out as fact, without proof or substance. Your tactics are also amusing, resorting to playground "sez you" sort of retorts and making personal attacks against those who pop your balloons instead of backing up your allegations and statements with real facts and evidence. I will keep an eye out for your "biting" response... :har:


<O>

[vienna]

Wish I could but election day is on a Monday so I have to work.

Election days are on Tuesday...

Case in point...



<O>

[Torplexed]

Oh boy....


It’ll be YUGE! Trump WILL debate Sanders on national TV as Democrat vows to make him feel the Bern (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3610893/Bernie-accepts-Trump-s-challenge-debate-California-Hillary-left-sidelines.html)

Hillary will stay home and wipe her server some more.

Golden move for Trump.

First: The media hype and audience will be yuge, and for many of the Bernie supporters it will be the first time they have watched a Trump event. Bearing in mind that many of Sanders supporters may defect to vote Trump over Clinton, that is exposure that simply could not be had any other way for any amount of money.

Second: This is an opportunity for Trump, Mr. Capitalism personified, to contrast himself with a socialist. Absent the need to defend himself, Trump can use this as his golden opportunity to connect with those elements of the conservative base that is still rather skeptical of him.

Third: Trump will have free rein on a national stage to further mock Clinton; furthermore, he will be probably be able to frame the dialogue in a way that goads Sanders into admitting his own criticisms of Clinton.

And if Hillary somehow tries to elbow her way into this debate after initially refusing to debate Bernie, well she is going to look darn foolish. The only down-side is if Sanders gets a few surprise blows in. But, that'll just make people regret Hillary as the pending Democratic party nominee even more.

[vienna]

It could also backfire; during the previous DEM debates, Sanders and Clinton actually tackled real issues and gave real answers, particularly Sanders, rather than what transpired the GOP debates where the sideshows were the center of attention. Trump really has not faced an opponent in a one-on-one format and particularly not an opponent who is arguably more knowledgeable about particular issues than Trump. Sanders is a fighter, as he has shown, and won't let up on Trump to really answer questions and issues. Unless Trump is really prepared, he may come off as less than the viable candidate than he supporters envision...

Then there is the question of who will host the debate. Will it be a reputable network or will it be some network seeking some easy ratings boost? Will the person(s) posing the questions be a respected individual or will it be the talking head of the month seeking to appear "journalistic"? Will the questions be real, hard hitting, relevant questions about the real major issues (the economy, jobs, anti-terrorism, defense preparedness, etc.) or will they be "softballs" tossed out to see if they can get a reaction that will keep the social network abuzz? The debate, if it happens, could either be a boon for one or both candidates, or they could be considerably snake bit...



<O>

[Torplexed]

It could also backfire; during the previous DEM debates, Sanders and Clinton actually tackled real issues and gave real answers, particularly Sanders, rather than what transpired the GOP debates where the sideshows were the center of attention. Trump really has not faced an opponent in a one-on-one format and particularly not an opponent who is arguably more knowledgeable about particular issues than Trump. Sanders is a fighter, as he has shown, and won't let up on Trump to really answer questions and issues. Unless Trump is really prepared, he may come off as less than the viable candidate than he supporters envision...

Then there is the question of who will host the debate. Will it be a reputable network or will it be some network seeking some easy ratings boost? Will the person(s) posing the questions be a respected individual or will it be the talking head of the month seeking to appear "journalistic"? Will the questions be real, hard hitting, relevant questions about the real major issues (the economy, jobs, anti-terrorism, defense preparedness, etc.) or will they be "softballs" tossed out to see if they can get a reaction that will keep the social network abuzz? The debate, if it happens, could either be a boon for one or both candidates, or they could be considerably snake bit...




It wouldn't surprise me if it turns into more of a circus sideshow than debate. I suppose if this upcoming event gets so ugly that it degenerates to the junior high level level of some of the GOP debates earlier this year, the Clinton campaign could possibly get some traction by claiming it was staying above the fray all along. Sanders, by contrast, could come off looking like the Democratic Party home wrecker the Clinton forces have been portraying him to be for last month. But Mrs. Clinton and establishment Democrats and Republicans have been acutely tone deaf about the new and rising tolerance the voters have had for name-calling and trollish behavior in this new social media dominated world. Sadly, it seems to go with the territory.

[August]

As far as payment and promotion, do you have any actual, verifiable, reputable evidence the Democratic party is directly responsible for such Hitler comparisons? I would rather much guess you do not

I would rather guess you were wrong then.

Calif. Democratic leader John Burton: GOP lies similar to those of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-democratic-leader-john-burton-gop-lies-similar-to-those-of-nazi-propagandist-joseph-goebbels/)

ADL Urges Dems to Stop Making Nazi and Holocaust Comparisons (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/adl-democrats-nazi-comparisons/2012/09/06/id/450928/)

A third Nazi reference at Democratic convention (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/09/another-nazi-reference-at-democratic-convention/1)

[vienna]

I would rather guess you were wrong then.

Calif. Democratic leader John Burton: GOP lies similar to those of Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calif-democratic-leader-john-burton-gop-lies-similar-to-those-of-nazi-propagandist-joseph-goebbels/)

ADL Urges Dems to Stop Making Nazi and Holocaust Comparisons (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/adl-democrats-nazi-comparisons/2012/09/06/id/450928/)

A third Nazi reference at Democratic convention (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/09/another-nazi-reference-at-democratic-convention/1)

Nope, close, but no cigar; those are statements made by individuals, much in the same way GOP and other party's individuals make statements that are not officially sanctioned by their party, much as you yourself used the term "Hitlery"; I, by no stretch of the imagination believe that term to be the official stance or terminology of the GOP or whatever party of which you are a member. Individual free speech, no matter how reprehensible, should not be automatically assumed to be representative of the speech or idea(l)s of the group they belong to; that is why you so often see those "views expressed may not be the views..." sort of statements in so many situations. Unless you can produce evidence of some sort of official document or official, fully sanctioned, "non-caveated" speech, then there is no link between what you offer as "proof" and official DEM stances or policies. If it is any consolation I do not hold the GOP responsible for your statements and, if they come to their senses and nominate some one like they did with John McCain, who I was very much in favor of and planned to vote for before they hobbled him with Palin, in 2008, say, perhaps my favorite at the moment, Paul Ryan, then I will gladly vote for a GOP ticket. You seem to have this insistence that I am a DEM when I am actually an independent; I have voted for GOP candidates in the past and will most likely do so in the future, if they I deem them the best qualified or the best choice. I know that put s a monkey wrench in your efforts to bolster your empty arguments; it is so much easier to blame someone's ability to refute your arguments and statements o their being of the "other side", whatever you may deem it, rather than actually doing a bit of real fact giving. It is easier to wish it were so instead of actually deal with the reality...

Oh, and I'm sorry if any of the words I used in this reply are difficult for you; I know how a vocabulary distresses you so...



<O>

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, and I'm sorry if any of the words I used in this reply are difficult for you; I know how a vocabulary distresses you so...
That is getting personal. Please stop.

[Onkel Neal]

Golden move for Trump.

First: The media hype and audience will be yuge, and for many of the Bernie supporters it will be the first time they have watched a Trump event. Bearing in mind that many of Sanders supporters may defect to vote Trump over Clinton, that is exposure that simply could not be had any other way for any amount of money.

Second: This is an opportunity for Trump, Mr. Capitalism personified, to contrast himself with a socialist. Absent the need to defend himself, Trump can use this as his golden opportunity to connect with those elements of the conservative base that is still rather skeptical of him.

Third: Trump will have free rein on a national stage to further mock Clinton; furthermore, he will be probably be able to frame the dialogue in a way that goads Sanders into admitting his own criticisms of Clinton.

And if Hillary somehow tries to elbow her way into this debate after initially refusing to debate Bernie, well she is going to look darn foolish. The only down-side is if Sanders gets a few surprise blows in. But, that'll just make people regret Hillary as the pending Democratic party nominee even more.

Yeah. Though it seems to me, if Bernie plays his cards right, he could make Trump look foolish. The Emperor's new clothes, and all.

What will be just as interesting is the free for all outside the venue between Bernie's Leftist Fascist Brigade and Trump's Right Wing Wackos... Tell the police to stay home and watch on the TV.

Is it too late to draft Al Gore?

[Catfish]

^ it is interesting to see this from a european (german here) point of view, learning a bit about how those things work in the US.

Regarding Al Gore or other former candidates, i always wondered why they completely vanish from the media and potential candidate list, even if they were able to get so much votes. Seems one electoral miss, and they are "burned" forever(?)

[Oberon]

Good news for Trump, he's secured the North Korean vote!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-trump-idUSKCN0YN35S

[HunterICX]

Good news for Trump, he's secured the North Korean vote!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-trump-idUSKCN0YN35S

Why am I not suprised :haha:

Now I am curious to see if Trump becomes president what'll happen with the relationship between the two countries :D

[August]

Makes sense that these foreign dictators are endorsing Trump. It's pretty obvious that their endorsements only benefit his opponent and we all know that Clinton can be bought so obviously she is the one that somebody like Kim Jong would want to help.

[Oberon]

Makes sense that these foreign dictators are endorsing Trump. It's pretty obvious that their endorsements only benefit his opponent and we all know that Clinton can be bought so obviously she is the one that somebody like Kim Jong would want to help.

Well, I think Trump saying that the US should withdraw troops from South Korea unless South Korea pays more towards the defence, and the fact that he said that he'd be willing to talk to Kim Jong-un whereas Hilary has stated that she wants to do Iran style wide sanctions probably helps too. :hmmm:

[August]

Well, I think Trump saying that the US should withdraw troops from South Korea unless South Korea pays more towards the defence, and the fact that he said that he'd be willing to talk to Kim Jong-un whereas Hilary has stated that she wants to do Iran style wide sanctions probably helps too. :hmmm:

Maybe, but maybe Jong figures he can buy her the way that the Chinese bribed her husband to sell them defense secrets. IIRC he took a tough line with them publicly as well.

[Platapus]

^ it is interesting to see this from a european (german here) point of view, learning a bit about how those things work in the US.

Regarding Al Gore or other former candidates, i always wondered why they completely vanish from the media and potential candidate list, even if they were able to get so much votes. Seems one electoral miss, and they are "burned" forever(?)


That is actually a good observation and is an indicator of how our political system has changed.

In the past (30-50 years ago) in each of the political parties there were the "usual suspects" Politicians who actually worked for the party for many years. Their names were well known in the appropriate political circles.

Nixon was a excellent example out of several. He worked for the GOP for many years. Even when he was not holding an elected position, he was always there in the background writing and giving speeches for other republican candidates. And when the time was right, these long time supporters were offered up as candidates. Nixon was VP in the 1950's and president in the 1970's.

These days (the last 30 years or so), I have not seen that. When the parties are first nominating potential candidates, often the initial reaction (at least in my circles) is "Who is this guy?"

These days, it seems like candidates are in a popularity/beauty contest, where they rise fast, but also drop fast. It does not seem like there are any long term supporters to choose from. There are, of course, some exceptions, but even these exceptions are much more fleeting than what I remember in the past.

[vienna]

Well, on the heels of the disclosure the checks for the veterans charities weren't cut until after the press raised questions of where the money was or went, it appears the efforts of Trump's legal team to push back any court action or mention of the "Trump University" scams until after the November Presidential elections has hit a rather large bump in the road. A Federal Court judge has unsealed documents containing sworn under oath testimony regarding the unethical practices and documented the whole Trump U outfit was little more than a systematic, methodical bunco scheme, with hands-on participation of Trump, himself, concocted to bilk 'students' out of their cash:

New York Times

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0zYKc-YfNAhVK02MKHXnyBKAQuogBCC8oAzAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F06%2F01% 2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fdonald-trump-university.html&usg=AFQjCNEMyZMXEQx0OVK_xNW_ZteSJewdFQ

The Washington Post

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0zYKc-YfNAhVK02MKHXnyBKAQqQIIOygAMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2 Fright-turn%2Fwp%2F2016%2F06%2F01%2Fthe-trump-university-scandal-graduates-to-the-front-pages%2F&usg=AFQjCNGtBRNGyqNrKm_fZaWFxBuNx6f0Tw

US News & World Report

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNzuHg-YfNAhUGw2MKHTyqCYkQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics% 2Farticles%2F2016-05-31%2Fdocuments-show-aggressive-sales-tactics-at-trump-university&usg=AFQjCNEYNclxUsmMgEmgnc3PYsJ9JxEeMg&bvm=bv.123664746,bs.2,d.cGc

As for that generous $1 Million donation from Trump to those veteran's charities, maybe now we know from where some of those funds came:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwieyqrN-ofNAhUW32MKHeeCDRsQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alternet.org%2Felection-2016%2Ftrump-university-scammed-retired-veteran&usg=AFQjCNH57rO1Nb9xToBzxQ-PBJHArl9vBQ&bvm=bv.123664746,bs.2,d.cGc

Of course, there will be Trump backers who will dispute or try to diminish the extent or severity of Trump's failings, but there is nothing like a little bit of truth (marvelous word) to shed light on the facts (another marvelous word):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjz9LXz-ofNAhVK02MKHXnyBKAQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fw atch-cnn-hosts-fact-check-shuts-down-trump-backers-blatant-lies-about-the-clinton-foundation%2F&usg=AFQjCNFkbcs3D03VEgrTReRzcR5zwx1GCA&bvm=bv.123664746,d.cGc

Trump, ever the class act, would never resort to deflection, smears or outright fabrications in an effort to conceal the facts in play:

http://fusion.net/story/307971/donald-trump-judge-mexican-hater-trump-university/

To quote Trump: “Unbelievably dishonest”...

It is interesting how Trump automatically calls any one who comments him or his campaign as "haters", almost in emulation of rap artists and adolescent schoolgirls who likewise use the term...

On the upside this whole mess could be just the leverage the beleaguered GOP needs to put Trump out of their misery...


<O>

[Platapus]

So we have two dishonest candidates running each one just a little bit more crooked than the other. :nope:

Swell.

[vienna]

Ain't American democracy grand?...


<O>

[Rockstar]

Hey guys guys can't we all just get along? Try to remember the words our president.

"If we turn against each other based on division of race or religion. If-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if we fall for, you know, a bunch of okie-doke, just because, you know it-it-it. You know, it-it-it-it-it-it sounds funny or the tweets are provocative." - Barack Obama

:har:

[Oberon]

Hey guys guys can't we all just get along? Try to remember the words our president.

"If we turn against each other based on division of race or religion. If-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if-if we fall for, you know, a bunch of okie-doke, just because, you know it-it-it. You know, it-it-it-it-it-it sounds funny or the tweets are provocative." - Barack Obama

:har:

Such ignorance, he has got a long way to go to beat the deep insight and philosophical quotations uttered by his predecessor. :nope:

[MaDef]

So we have two dishonest candidates running each one just a little bit more crooked than the other. :nope:

Swell.Honest politicians are as common as hens teeth.

[Jimbuna]

Honest politicians are as common as hens teeth.

LOL :)

http://i.imgur.com/5W6XmtD.jpg

[Nippelspanner]

Such ignorance, he has got a long way to go to beat the deep insight and philosophical quotations uttered by his predecessor. :nope:
That's what I thought.

[vienna]

Ah, Dubbya, God's gift to comedians. Here's a few of his greatest hits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbZqvMu2cQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhmdEq3JhoY

...and, for bit of a laugh at all things Presidential, a great routine by Robin Williams from 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2jSLuHlz4

May whomever becomes the next President provide at least half the comedic fodder as Dubbya...


<O>

[Rockstar]

careful vienna some people here are of the sensitive type.

[Oberon]

I think right now most of America is probably wishing that Dubya would run, heck...I think they'd take Nixon right now. :haha: Hell, even Carter! :haha:

[vienna]

The Trump U situation just got even more intriguing:

State attorneys general who dropped Trump University fraud inquiries subsequently got Trump donations

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/2/11838554/trump-university-fraud-abbott-bondi

Here is a link to the Associated Press article cited in the above Vox article

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/67444ec825f3460ba4aadefc0d29d22f/trump-university-model-sell-hard-demand-see-warrant



<O>

[Torplexed]

The candidates collection pot to this point.

http://pyxis.homestead.com/attachment.jpg

[eddie]

I think right now most of America is probably wishing that Dubya would run, heck...I think they'd take Nixon right now. :haha: Hell, even Carter! :haha:

:sign_yeah:

[Torplexed]

I think right now most of America is probably wishing that Dubya would run, heck...I think they'd take Nixon right now. :haha:


Oh, for those halcyon, bygone days of Tricky-Dick.

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Nixon.jpg


Not!-stalgia. :O:

[razark]

Oh, for those halcyon, bygone days of Tricky-Dick.
Nixon?

Wasn't he the one that opened relations with Communist China?
The one that pulled troops out of a war?
The one that held talks with our enemies to limit the number of nuclear weapons and missile defense?
The one that sold weapons to Iran and meddled in Middle East politics?

The same Nixon that gasp started the EPA?!?



Yeah, he'd go over well with his party today.

[August]

Yeah, he'd go over well with his party today.

He's like a Hillary Clinton Democrat. Big Government Statist and more crooked than a dogs hind leg.

[August]

The face of the modern democrat party:

A group of protesters attacked Donald Trump supporters who were leaving the candidate's rally in San Jose on Thursday night. A dozen or more people were punched, at least one person was pelted with an egg and Trump hats grabbed from supporters were set on fire on the ground.

Police stood their ground at first but after about 90 minutes moved into the remaining crowd to break it up and make arrests. At least four people were taken into custody, though police didn't release total arrest figures Thursday night. One officer was assaulted, police Sgt. Enrique Garcia said.

There were no immediate reports of injuries and no major property damage, police said.
The crowd, which had numbered over 300 just after the rally, had thinned significantly but those that remained, filling about a city block near the San Jose Convention Center, were rowdy and angry.
Some banged on the cars of Trump supporters as they left the rally and chased after those on foot to frighten them.

Police were keeping their distance from the crowd as the scuffles played out, but keeping them from getting any closer to the convention center.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/03/san-jose-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-with-punches-eggs.html

[August]

The so called womens candidate in action:

Hillary Clinton's successful 1975 legal defense of an accused rapist has surfaced again with the victim, angered over a tape of Clinton chuckling over her courtroom tactics in the case, lashing out at the potential Democratic presidential candidate. "Hillary Clinton took me through hell," the victim told the Daily Beast in an emotional interview published today. The woman said that if she saw Clinton today she would say, "I realize the truth now, the heart of what you've done to me. And you are supposed to be for women? You call that [being] for women, what you done to me? And I heard you on tape laughing."
The name of the woman, who is now 52, was withheld for privacy reasons. She decided to speak out after hearing never-before-heard audio tapes released by the Washington Free Beacon earlier this week of Hillary Clinton talking about the trial. In the recordings, dubbed the "Hillary Tapes," Clinton is heard laughing as she describes how she succeeded at getting her client a lighter sentence, despite suggesting she knew he was guilty.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-dogged-by-1975-rape-case/

[vienna]

An interesting article on the background of the Federal Judge hearing the Trump University scam case, the one Trump is trying to smear for unsealing those documents outlining the extent of the bunco scheme:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/us/politics/donald-trump-university-judge-gonzalo-curiel.html?_r=0

It seems Trump is coming up against someone he can neither bully or buy...



<O>

[Catfish]

... It seems Trump is coming up against someone he can neither bully or buy...<O>

Let me say that.. a judge who has officially convicted high level drug bosses that are being supported by Mexico cartels and the USA, has to be a real badass.
I guess Mr Trump might be in for a treat here.

[mapuc]

Let me see if I got this right

Both Candidate are or could be facing a trial and perhaps a verdict of some kind-Even prison in worst case scenario.

That would mean no candidate. Guess they had to find two new then.

Markus

[Oberon]

I think after that it would default down to the next in line, Sanders vs Cruz, or possibly go for the running mate if they've chosen one by then. Not sure on the certain legalities of it.
Would certainly be interesting though. :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

Let me see if I got this right

Both Candidate are or could be facing a trial and perhaps a verdict of some kind-Even prison in worst case scenario.

could have, should have, would have.

Until charges are detailed by people whose job it is to do so and suspects are brought to trial. Nothing in the news about any of the candidates during a political campaign should be taken very seriously.

its hay, only cows and fanboys like hay

[razark]

I think after that it would default down to the next in line, Sanders vs Cruz, or possibly go for the running mate if they've chosen one by then. Not sure on the certain legalities of it.
There's nothing in the Constitution that says they would be disqualified from holding office.


:hmmm:
Can the president pardon itself?

[August]

Let me see if I got this right

Both Candidate are or could be facing a trial and perhaps a verdict of some kind-Even prison in worst case scenario.

That would mean no candidate. Guess they had to find two new then.

Markus

Not really. Unlike Clinton, Trump is not facing criminal charges but rather a civil lawsuit. The most that can happen to him is a fine. The most that can happen to her is a very lengthy prison sentence. Big difference.

[mapuc]

Not really. Unlike Clinton, Trump is not facing criminal charges but rather a civil lawsuit. The most that can happen to him is a fine. The most that can happen to her is a very lengthy prison sentence. Big difference.

Thank you-That much I know about american laws, there is a different between civil lawsuit and criminal lawsuit.

I got it wrong it seems.


Markus

[August]

Thank you-That much I know about american laws, there is a different between civil lawsuit and criminal lawsuit.

I got it wrong it seems.


Markus


Completely understandable. There are many forces trying to muddy the difference.

[eddie]

What a piece of crap Trump is, he loves our veterans!! Like so much BS!!!


"The myth of Donald Trump reached its zenith in 1988, the year that his book, The Art of the Deal, was published. That year, Trump bought the Plaza Hotel, a crown jewel of New York real estate; he also bought a 282-foot yacht, and a fleet of airplanes owned by Eastern Air, which he renamed the Trump Shuttle. This airline would be among the first of Trump’s companies to be sued for violating laws aimed at protecting the jobs of military veterans who are called up for service.
Fast forward 30 years, and Trump is the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, having mounted a successful outsider’s bid in part around his promises to take care of America’s veterans.
Yet in at least three cases, Trump’s companies have either fired, or refused to hire, military reservists because of the time commitments demanded of them by their service in the armed forces. The veterans involved have sued Trump for violating the laws meant to protect them from precisely these types of penalties. And in all three cases, Trump and his companies have settled the suits.
The Huffington Post already reported on the first two of these cases — one involving an Air Force senior master sergeant fired from the Trump Institute (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-institute-fired-veteran_us_5718fda7e4b024dae4f1517e?5vii8khzlc7db1 emi) in 2007, and one an Army staff sergeant fired from her job at Trump University (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-university-veterans_us_574eff95e4b0c3752dcc1505?csq69a4i) that same year."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-fires-veterans-military-service_us_57509590e4b0c3752dcd08cf?section=politi cs

[Rockstar]

one candidate is accused of hating veterans because his employees fired two veterans (out of how many currently employed?) for undisclosed reasons. :hmm2:

the other candidate left veterans to die in a foreign land. :yeah: