2016 US Presidential election thread

[Oberon]

The Republican party made Trump happen, and if there wasn't a significant pro-Trump voter block in the GOPs voting base (and even if there were Democratic infiltrators there you can't blame all of his success on that, as much as the GOP would like to try) then he wouldn't have gotten as far as he has.
So, why do Republican voters want a demagogue in charge of their country? :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

The Republican party made Trump happen, and if there wasn't a significant pro-Trump voter block in the GOPs voting base (and even if there were Democratic infiltrators there you can't blame all of his success on that, as much as the GOP would like to try) then he wouldn't have gotten as far as he has.
So, why do Republican voters want a demagogue in charge of their country? :hmmm:


I don't believe they see Trump as a demagogue. He is seen as like them. He is speaking their language. Yet, as Neal pointed out, Trump can not deliver on a lot of it if any.

[Aktungbby]

Well then...why would anyone move to Canada if Trump gets the WH? Costa Rica bound! :) And who needs a vacation home? This is for sale down there: U give me back that imaginary point I'll let you visit!:O: http://www.ricaboats.com/photos/boats/479_17_z.jpg1991 50' Beneteau:hmmm: 3 stateroom plus crew cabin in the forepeak.:rock: And I can get to my 'offshore' accounts in style!:Kaleun_Goofy: ...well maybe :Kaleun_Sick: http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/03/01/59f8981e-7791-412f-8ddb-b469b12ea317/thumbnail/620x350/1cd173e658e3de840484fc1dbcfff2f7/philippinesmumifedsailorap442690430807.jpg HEY! He still looks better than Trump or Hillary!

[Oberon]

I don't believe they see Trump as a demagogue. He is seen as like them. He is speaking their language. Yet, as Neal pointed out, Trump can not deliver on a lot of it if any.

Good point. So why are there so many Republican voters who think that Trump is speaking their language? When so many find that same language repugnant?

[Onkel Neal]

Well then...why would anyone move to Canada if Trump gets the WH? Costa Rica bound! :)
Why not Puerto Rico? Stay in the US, so you can be reasonably sure they won't seize your home in the next revolution.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/house,mobile,land_type/2100064203_zpid/1000-95000_price/4-342_mp/any_days/261360-_lot/18.389714,-66.439133,17.830413,-67.177277_rect/10_zm/?3col=true

[Aktungbby]

Why not Puerto Rico? Stay in the US, so you can be reasonably sure they won't seize your home in the next revolution.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/house,mobile,land_type/2100064203_zpid/1000-95000_price/4-342_mp/any_days/261360-_lot/18.389714,-66.439133,17.830413,-67.177277_rect/10_zm/?3col=true
The island has even less money than everyone thought, according to the latest figures (http://www.bgfpr.com/)out Monday, and it's having to resort to "extraordinary measures" to pay its bills.
The cash crunch is so bad that Puerto Rico's prison system is no longer paying the vendor that supplies food for inmates, and some special education instructors have stopped getting paid, according to a senior government official. The island is also delaying people's tax refunds.
Over the next decade, Puerto Rico must closea nearly $24 billion funding hole, worse than previously projected in September. That's after raising taxes and severely cutting expenses.
The island's problems center on how to deal with just over $70 billion in totaldebt.
"A significant restructuring of the Commonwealth's debt is inevitable," the government report concluded. http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/news/economy/puerto-rico-debt-crisis/ (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/news/economy/puerto-rico-debt-crisis/)
Better to sit that out at the present; Like I said 'ten good years' and P.R. clearly isn't safe at this time with regard to finances. Exit with dignity and as few headaches as possible....:yep: Puerto Rico's economy has been contracting for a decade, and the government has been wracking up debt. Meanwhile people are fleeing the island (http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/23/news/economy/puerto-rico-brain-drain/?iid=EL) and moving to the mainland United States in search of better jobs and pay. That only erodes the tax base on the island even more.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good point. So why are there so many Republican voters who think that Trump is speaking their language? When so many find that same language repugnant?

Trump is saying what they can't do to many factors of PC and being labeled as something. In short, exhausted with what society has become and the path it is taking. The "everyone get a participation trophy." Government should take care of me. As touched on in this thread a few post back, our government was not designed to handle what it has become. It was never intended to become this machine of gears that do not mesh. The Great Society of Lyndon B Johnson a failure. The language is not repugnant to many because they believe what is being said needs to be said. The carpet sweeping has to stop. The elephant in the room need not be ignored any longer. Sooner or later...someone has to pay for the trillions upon trillions of dollars.

[AVGWarhawk]

Why not Puerto Rico? Stay in the US, so you can be reasonably sure they won't seize your home in the next revolution.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/house,mobile,land_type/2100064203_zpid/1000-95000_price/4-342_mp/any_days/261360-_lot/18.389714,-66.439133,17.830413,-67.177277_rect/10_zm/?3col=true


Well, currently the bank owns my home but agreed to let me live there with my family if I pay a pre-determined amount each month for 30 years. So, if it is taken here no loss to me as the bank owns it. I'll take my changes on the revolution in PR. PR will get statehood before you know it.

[Onkel Neal]

Well, currently the bank owns my home but agreed to let me live there with my family if I pay a pre-determined amount each month for 30 years. So, if it is taken here no loss to me as the bank owns it. I'll take my changes on the revolution in PR. PR will get statehood before you know it.


What? Bank owns your house? You have zero equity in it? :hmmm:

I was referring to potential revolution in Costa Rica, not Puerto Rica. If I'm not mistaken, CR is not a US territory, while PR is.... see what I mean?

[AVGWarhawk]

What? Bank owns your house? You have zero equity in it? :hmmm:

I was referring to potential revolution in Costa Rica, not Puerto Rica. If I'm not mistaken, CR is not a US territory, while PR is.... see what I mean?


I have plenty of equity. Stop paying, foreclose and watch the home be sold for dirt cheap does not leave much on the table.

Why heck, Costa Rica? Long day brother. I have PR on the brain. CR is definitely not US territory. PR is certainly as we send FEMA supplies there constantly. Statehood discussed all the time. But, I'll take my chances on Costa Rica. At least it is warm. Canada not so much. :)

[vienna]

I have a signed picture of Ford. :up:

My father was a crew member, an engineer, on the SS Mayaguez when she was seized by the Cambodians in 1975. After the release of the crew, Ford sent a personal letter to each crew member. My father was very proud of his letter and sent a copy to me. I have the copy somewhere among my possessions; I do remember noting a couple of things about the letter: Ford signed his name "Jerry Ford" rather than the more formal form; and the envelope from The White House bore no stamp; apparently the President does not have to pay postage. Also, the White House stationery was very elegant and understated...


<O>

[AVGWarhawk]

My father was a crew member, an engineer, on the SS Mayaguez when she was seized by the Cambodians in 1975. After the release of the crew, Ford sent a personal letter to each crew member. My father was very proud of his letter and sent a copy to me. I have the copy somewhere among my possessions; I do remember noting a couple of things about the letter: Ford signed his name "Jerry Ford" rather than the more formal form; and the envelope from The White House bore no stamp; apparently the President does not have to pay postage. Also, the White House stationery was very elegant and understated...


<O>

:up:

[August]

My father was a crew member, an engineer, on the SS Mayaguez when she was seized by the Cambodians in 1975. After the release of the crew, Ford sent a personal letter to each crew member. My father was very proud of his letter and sent a copy to me. I have the copy somewhere among my possessions; I do remember noting a couple of things about the letter: Ford signed his name "Jerry Ford" rather than the more formal form; and the envelope from The White House bore no stamp; apparently the President does not have to pay postage. Also, the White House stationery was very elegant and understated...<O>

I used to work with one of the Marines that rescued the crew. He got a Silver Star for his part in the operation.

[Oberon]

Carson has officially dropped.

[Torplexed]

Good point. So why are there so many Republican voters who think that Trump is speaking their language? When so many find that same language repugnant?

I was listening to a local conservative radio talk show host on this subject. He is a Cruz fan who doesn't care for Trump himself, but wants to understand why so many of his right leaning listeners do.

He said a good number of Trump's fans realize he won't build a wall on the Mexican border, he won't deport Muslim or illegals. He won't make America great again since he never even defines what that means.

They are voting for him to go to Washington DC and break things. They want an anti-politician who will make the comfortable uncomfortable. They basically want a bull in a china shop. It's not about fixing things but tearing down what they feel is a rigged game. A lot of people are extremely fed up with endemic corruption, sweetheart deals, and feather-bedding that goes on there, and they think he's the politically incorrect man to do it. And to hell with the consequences.

A lot of these are voters long divorced from the political process. They believe Trump is their last chance in their lifetime to wrest control from the established parties.

[Platapus]

apparently the President does not have to pay postage. Also, the White House stationery was very elegant and understated...


<O>

Strange as it may seem, the President does not enjoy Franking privileges, but the Vice President does.

What probably happened was that the White House envelope was put inside another envelope in order to protect it.

[Betonov]

I was listening to a local conservative radio talk show host on this subject. He is a Cruz fan who doesn't care for Trump himself, but wants to understand why so many of his right leaning listeners do...



That makes so much sense, I'd actually vote for Trump if I was an American :dead:

(not sarcastic)

[Platapus]

They are voting for him to go to Washington DC and break things. They want an anti-politician who will make the comfortable uncomfortable. They basically want a bull in a china shop. It's not about fixing things but tearing down what they feel is a rigged game. A lot of people are extremely fed up with endemic corruption, sweetheart deals, and feather-bedding that goes on there, and they think he's the politically incorrect man to do it. And to hell with the consequences.

A lot of these are voters long divorced from the political process. They believe Trump is their last chance in their lifetime to wrest control from the established parties.

I truly despair in thinking that there are actually people in my country who feel the way that these people, that Torplexed was referencing, feel.

The office of President is far too important to just throw someone in to break it and "see what happens".

This is not a video game. There are no saves that can be reloaded. Have we truly not learned anything from the last two presidents? POTUS is not an entry level job where we elect someone we like or are entertained with. :nope:

I don't want an outsider.. some amateur to come in and act as a random number generator to just try stuff. I want an insider but a good insider.. one who understands the system and can operate within the system to fix the problems. We have problems that need to be fixed... not broken even more.

I have had two unsuccessful foot surgeries. Should I now eschew experienced surgeons and pick some billy-bob who used to watch the TV show ER? He might try something unusual and it might work. No, that would be stupid. The consequences are too important.

So why would anyone want to apply that train of thought for electing a President. :/\\!!

I am not happy with what has been happening to our country either. I am disillusioned with our current political environment just like many other people. But to want to elect someone to act as a "bull in a china shop" not to fix anything but to "tear down". And to have the attitude of "to hell with the consequences." strikes me, honestly, as moronic.

Just an old guy's opinion.

[AVGWarhawk]

The safe route has been taken for decades.

[em2nought]

I am not happy with what has been happening to our country either. I am disillusioned with our current political environment just like many other people. But to want to elect someone to act as a "bull in a china shop" not to fix anything but to "tear down". And to have the attitude of "to hell with the consequences." strikes me, honestly, as moronic.

Just an old guy's opinion.

Other old guys might see everything our gov't has done since WWII as moronic, so why not shake it up a bit. Somebody that says what's in it for us before he launches on spending billions of $, and thousands of lives(to be replaced by immigrants who hate us) to bring democracy to people that don't want it in the first place. Or someone that just hands our enemies US dollars because he doesn't like America much himself. Tear it down! :rock:

[u crank]

That makes so much sense, I'd actually vote for Trump if I was an American :dead:

(not sarcastic)

If I were an American I would not. The reason is that there is absolutely no guarantee that Trump will do or could do anything that he says he will. In fact it is doubtful he would even try because he would be apposed at every attempt. Politicians in any country like the system they have set up. It serves them well and makes them rich. The opposition to that change would be enormous. That opposition would come from both inside and outside of government. The fact is that Trump is probably already part of that 'big government' system and benefits from it.

As for Trump being President, well unless he has a radical personality change he could be quite vindictive. Nixon had an enemies list. Trump well....:hmmm:

[em2nought]

As for Trump being President, well unless he has a radical personality change he could be quite vindictive. Nixon had an enemies list. Trump well....:hmmm:

Like maybe he'll have the IRS pay special attention to Tea Party members, oh wait that was someone else. LMFAO

[Oberon]

I can understand the frustration, the US isn't the first nation to grow tired of the mistakes of those in power, but...well, there's a saying about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The people of Russia grew tired of the Tsar, and look how well that went.

[Mr Quatro]

Carson has officially dropped.

Did anyone tell Carson yet? He must feel terrible :woot:

As for Donald Trump the POTUS wanna be ... he is a real egomaniac :yep:

Egomania is also known as an obsessive preoccupation with one's self and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac

Our nation will divided on this one even more than the Mccain/Obama or the Romney/Obama race for the white house.

Why wait for Donald to get into the White House to find out ... he's not going to change.

His answer to the private off the record conversation during the last GOP debate of saying that he wasn't going
to do any of that stuff (meaning on immigration) was completely unsatisfying to me.

He is a con artist and he is hustling America ...

I say stop him before Hillary proves it and gets into the White house by default :yep:

[u crank]

Like maybe he'll have the IRS pay special attention to Tea Party members, oh wait that was someone else. LMFAO

As the saying goes.. 'there's your trouble'. All politicians abuse their power. I'm sure that a lot of them get into the game for just that reason. Would Mr. Trump? Na...:O:



He is a con artist and he is hustling America ...

I say stop him before Hillary proves it and gets into the White house by default :yep:

If I were an American that would be my feeling exactly.

[August]

Everything you guys say about Trump might be true, at least to some degree, but he is still a better choice than that criminal Clinton. If the Democrats refuse to prosecute her and she wins the election then I fear they will make a precedent that will eventually be fatal to our country. Just like there are some banks too big to fail apparently there are politicians who are above the law.

[August]

Everything you guys say about Trump might be true, at least to some degree, but he is still a better choice than that criminal Clinton. If the Democrats refuse to prosecute her and she wins the election then I fear they will make a precedent that will eventually be fatal to our country. Just like there are some banks too big to fail apparently there are politicians who are above the law and that will prove it.

[Platapus]

People need to read Trump's book. He mentions the power of getting the party he is negotiating with to focus on the fantasy of what he is proposing instead of the reality of the costs/risks. He refers this to "using your leverage".

[August]

People need to read Trump's book. He mentions the power of getting the party he is negotiating with to focus on the fantasy of what he is proposing instead of the reality of the costs/risks. He refers this to "using your leverage".

Is he talking about his stock holders (in this case the American people if we do give him the job) or his business adversaries?

[Oberon]

Did anyone tell Carson yet? He must feel terrible :woot:

I think he dropped a long time ago but the body was still moving. :O:

[Platapus]

Is he talking about his stock holders (in this case the American people if we do give him the job) or his business adversaries?

I am not sure Trump makes any differentiation.

There are only two sides. Trump and everyone else.

[vienna]

I used to work with one of the Marines that rescued the crew. He got a Silver Star for his part in the operation.

I recently found a website for the members of the rescue team and the survivors of those who died in action. I sent a response via their guestbook link expressing my thanks for their efforts and subsequently got an email from one of the Marines involved; it was very gratifying and humbling to be able to thank at least one of them directly...

Among the many odd and unusual incidents in my life, a few years after the Mayaguez Incident, I was passing the time one weekday afternoon at a bar a friend of mine used to own here in LA. The daytime bartender was a very attractive young lady and she had recently become engaged to some fellow who was not a customer of the bar. On the day I was there, the fellow did come in and the bartender introduced me to her fiance. She mentioned he was a Merchant Marine, as was my father and I told him so. He asked me my father's name and when I told him, he was very surprised. He seemed very wary and started to ask me very specific questions about my father; I became likewise wary and asked why he was asking those questions. He told me he was one of the crew members on the Mayaguez with my father. I was stunned and started to ask him some questions of my own about my father to ascertain the truth of his claim; he answered all the questions with extreme accuracy; only someone who had spent time with my father would have known him in such detail. The whole experience of meeting this Mayaguez crewman was one of the most unusual bits of fate I had ever experinced...

Strange as it may seem, the President does not enjoy Franking privileges, but the Vice President does.

What probably happened was that the White House envelope was put inside another envelope in order to protect it.

That would explain the very pristine condition of the envelope (I got to see the actual letter on the last visit I had with my father). I always thought it was a very decent thing Ford did in communicating directly with the crew; it meant a great deal to them to be acknowledged...


<O>

[Platapus]

There was every indication that Ford was a pretty decent person. :up:

[vienna]

This is the cover of the March 10, 2016 issue of Rolling Stone magazine:


http://img7.bdbphotos.com/images/huge/f/g/fgt1x7tu2z3l21tx.jpg?djet1p5k



BTW, the article in this issue on artificial intelligence is quite interesting...


<O>

[mapuc]

Here are something that always have

Todays issue of Ellermann-Lykketoft a political program with two former Danish Foreign ministers they showed a picture with Trump as Frankenstein and an elephant with the word GOP in its chest.

The Elephant say-We so to say made this.

That made me wonder-Why are we always attack the creation and not those who created this creation.

I see people make verbal attacks on Trump. but not those who have made it possible to make Trump be so popular.

Markus

[Torplexed]

So far, the only real positive reason I can find to vote for Trump is the choice of who's First Spouse's mug we'll have to look at for the next few years. (Well, actually Third Spouse for Trump)

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Melania-Bill.jpg

[XabbaRus]

You guys need Jack Ryan.

[August]

There was every indication that Ford was a pretty decent person. :up:

The protesters on the rebel side of the Concord bridge during Fords speech at the bicentennial sure didn't think so. As I recall the chant "(expletive) Ford", "(expletive) Ford" was pretty loud. That sure was an eye opener for my young self.

[Oberon]

You guys need Jack Ryan.

Well...that would be one way to fix the US government I suppose...

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AR-AC834_WHITEH_G_20130620194409.jpg

[Platapus]

The protesters on the rebel side of the Concord bridge during Fords speech at the bicentennial sure didn't think so. As I recall the chant "(expletive) Ford", "(expletive) Ford" was pretty loud. That sure was an eye opener for my young self.


A lot of people did, and still do, disagree with his decision to pardon Nixon.

[Onkel Neal]

I wonder who's the wise guy that added the tags "armageddon, doomsday" ? :hmmm:

Cruz is looking strong in Maine and Kansas today.

[Fr8monkey]

Trump has followers pledge to him: scary!

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/xz7pkahkzeglvekdmjac.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPLtCOtuIpY



Next he is going to hand out brown shirts...

[Oberon]

I wonder who's the wise guy that added the tags "armageddon, doomsday" ? :hmmm:

http://doompaul.neocities.org/angelpaul.jpg

[Torplexed]

Trump has followers pledge to him: scary!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPLtCOtuIpY

Next he is going to hand out brown shirts...

That sort of thing gives me the willies. :nope: History doesn't always repeat itself but it sure can rhyme.

[Oberon]

Economic downturn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929) - Check (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308)
Frustration at political ineptitude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic) - Check (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inauguration_of_Barack_Obama)
Loss of pride due to military setbacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles) - Check (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror)
Populist leader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) - Check (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump)
Dedicated militarist support group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung) - Possibly check (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRnFLOJa3Z8&feature=youtu.be) depending on your definition (https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/trump-gives-supporters-permission-to-be-violent-with-protesters-if-you-hurt-them-ill-defend-you-in-court/)

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-if-history-repeats-itself-and-the-unexpected-always-happens-how-incapable-must-man-be-of-learning-george-bernard-shaw-168845.jpg

[Torplexed]

Checklists give me the willies too. :o

http://i.imgur.com/tZpTyux.jpg

[Platapus]

Trump has followers pledge to him: scary!

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/xz7pkahkzeglvekdmjac.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPLtCOtuIpY



Next he is going to hand out brown shirts...

As much as I disagree with Trump, and I do, I don't see anything scary about a candidate asking people who attend his rally to promise to vote for him. I am sure he is not the first candidate who asked his attendees to promise to vote for the candidate.

You could not pay me to go to a political rally, but I presume this is a pretty common thing?

[Jimbuna]

I wonder who's the wise guy that added the tags "armageddon, doomsday" ? :hmmm:



http://i.imgur.com/0nAnEXe.gif

[Aktungbby]

http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/752/551c5460-f761-0132-450e-0a2ca390b447.jpg?w=670&fit=max&auto=format&q=70 REALLY http://i.imgur.com/0nAnEXe.gif :O:http://media.cagle.com/53/2015/12/15/173020_600.jpgCosta Rica BBY!

[em2nought]

REALLY :O:http://media.cagle.com/53/2015/12/15/173020_600.jpgCosta Rica BBY!
Looks like the princess has lost some weight. :har:

[Mr Quatro]

Could Trump lose in July at the convention to Ted Cruz?

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read-why-trump-s-delegate-lead-could-be-narrower-n533216

After five Republican contests over the weekend, Donald Trump has just an 87-delegate lead over Ted Cruz, 392-305. And as one plugged-in GOP rules expert tells us, that lead is probably narrower than that. Why? Well, 112 delegates (representing 9% out of 1,237 needed for the nomination) are unbound because there is NO statewide presidential vote -- like in Colorado. This all underscores, once again, how important the winner-take-all states of Florida and Ohio on March 15 are to Trump's path to 1,237.

[Onkel Neal]

That's what I think will happen. If Kasich wins Ohio, if Rubio wins Florida (his own home state and it's not a done deal at all), and if Cruz can split the rest of the delegates with Trump, there may not be a clear delegate count winner. In the convention, the RNC could push the Rubio and Kasich delegates to support Cruz and he would be the nominee....:yeah:

[Platapus]

Cruz as the nominee is not exactly a significant improvement.

A narcissist zealot vs a religious zealot.

Like being asked whether you want to be hit, in the face, with a wet or dry frying pan. Technically, there may be a difference but for all practical purposes.....:nope:

[Fr8monkey]

A narcissist zealot...

I think more of a narcissist nationalist, which I think is worse.

[Platapus]

I think more of a narcissist nationalist, which I think is worse.

As long as we are talking about the nation of Trump.

To paraphrase Charlie Wilson, I think that Trump feels that what is good for Trump is good for the country.

[August]

I think that Trump feels that what is good for Trump is good for the country.

That certainly applies to his likely opponent. At least he's up front about it.

[vienna]

Top secret footage of a Trump strategy meeting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj65AcbekIE

http://lil-abner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/generalalb.gif

General Bullmoose: Al Capp created General Bullmoose in June 1953 as the epitome of a ruthless capitalist. Bullmoose’s motto “What’s good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!” was adapted by Capp from a statement made by Charles E. Wilson, the former head of General Motors and Secretary of Defense under President Dwight Eisenhower. In 1952 Wilson told a Senate subcommittee, “What is good for the country is good for General Motors, and what’s good for General Motors is good for the country.” Li’l Abner became embroiled in many implausible but hilarious adventures with the cold-hearted Bullmoose over the years.


(From lil-abner.com Family Album)


<O>

[August]

Yeah whatever my point about Hitlery remains.

[vienna]

...and still basically unsubstantiated by cites or facts, rather like Trump...

...and the way the GOP is going, they're going to hand whoever the DEMs nominate the keys to the White House for another four years...



<O>

[August]

So you like to say.

[Oberon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7e6gLht6OQ

:dead:

[Fr8monkey]

Oh boy! More right wing propaganda with no evidence. Well it will influence the uneducated in the red states.

[Mr Quatro]

I've been wondering why Donald Trump keeps bringing up his threat to run as a third party for POTUS.

Now I know: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aei-world-forum-donald-trump_us_56ddbd38e4b0ffe6f8ea125d?2oz85mi

No wonder he's worried ... he gets all of the news and rumors that go with it.

Look at this list of private jets that just met in Georgia for a secret meeting.

Federal Aviation Administration records available on FlightAware.com show that a fleet of private jets flew into and out of two small airports near Sea Island this weekend. Fifty-four planes flew out of the airport on St. Simons Island, Georgia, on Sunday -- nearly four times as many as departed from the airport the previous Sunday.

Many of the planes are registered to jet-sharing companies such as NetJets and Flexjet or private jet services companies such as Jetsetter. At least two of them flew directly to San Jose, California, home of many tech giants, on Sunday.

Another plane, which arrived from Eaton, Colorado, on Wednesday and flew back there on Sunday, is registered to Monfort Aviation, LLC, a private, tax-exempt trust. FAA records don't indicate who controls Monfort Aviation, but it shares a name with Dick and Charlie Monfort, the Colorado-based heirs to a meatpacking fortune who now own the Colorado Rockies baseball team. The plane, a Raytheon Hawker 800XP, seats 15 people. Anschutz, the billionaire whose company part owns Sea Island, is also from Colorado.

Another private plane, a Canadair Challenger, flew cross-country from St. Simons to Van Nuys Airport in Southern California on Friday. Van Nuys Airport is so associated with millionaires and billionaires that their disputes over space at the field occasionally spill into the news media.

Another plane, a tri-jet Dassault Falcon 900, flew into St. Simons on Thursday from Westchester County, New York, and returned on Sunday. It's registered to Northwood Investors LLC, which is run by John Kukral, whose official bio notes he's been involved in real estate deals worth over $40 billion.



At Secretive Meeting, Tech CEOs And Top Republicans Commiserate, Plot To Stop Trump: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aei-world-forum-donald-trump_us_56ddbd38e4b0ffe6f8ea125d?2oz85mi

"The event is private and off-the record, therefore we do not comment further on the content or attendees," said Judy Stecker, a spokeswoman for AEI. She described the forum as "an informal gathering of leading thinkers from all ideological backgrounds to discuss challenges that the United States and the free world face in economics, security and social welfare."

[Fr8monkey]

If the GOP and the wealthy are trying to stop Trump, they should have started 6 months ago. I fear it is too late now. The genie is out of the bottle.

[AVGWarhawk]

If the GOP and the wealthy are trying to stop Trump, they should have started 6 months ago. I fear it is too late now. The genie is out of the bottle.


Agreed. I guess the GOP did not believe Trump would have made it to this point.

[Aktungbby]

:oops:http://pyxis.homestead.com/Melania-Bill.jpgClinton (on the right) IS BEHIND IT ALL!:D paying Trump to run so he can be the 'first man' behind 'stand by your man' Hillary! "It's the economy stupid"! Instead of "Hail to the Chief" we'll get https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew)Move over Juan and Eva (Perón)https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Eva%26Juan.jpg/220px-Eva%26Juan.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eva%26Juan.jpg) http://blog.sfgate.com/djsaunders/2015/07/29/hillary-clintons-debut-falsehood/ (http://blog.sfgate.com/djsaunders/2015/07/29/hillary-clintons-debut-falsehood/) When Hillary Clinton (http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/saunders/article/Why-voters-don-t-trust-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton-6408633.php) first became a national figure in 1992, it was on “60 Minutes.” CBS correspondent Steve Kroft was asking the Clintons about Gennifer Flowers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/clinton.htm) claim that the Bubba and she had an affair. Bill denied the allegation. Hillary Clinton said,“I’m not sitting here, some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette.” Actually, that’s exactly what she was doing.Maybe Madonna wil sing "Don't Cry for Me America" when it's all over...:O: It's really the Bubba vs the Donald! :doh:

[Jimbuna]

Agreed. I guess the GOP did not believe Trump would have made it to this point.

Well they sure are believing now :)

[AVGWarhawk]

Well they sure are believing now :)

Honestly, it is a bit scary. :o

[Jimbuna]

Honestly, it is a bit scary. :o

I believes ya but it is quite entertaining from this side of the pond. We only have Corbyn acting the fool atm but that is debatable.

[Fr8monkey]

Yeah, you think it is funny now until President Trump nukes the U.K. because the PM didn't return his phone call...

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, you think it is funny now until President Trump nukes the U.K. because the PM didn't return his phone call...


Pushing the button was never a concern of mine concerning Trump. But to be sure, I hope the PM returns his call. :O:

[mapuc]

Honestly, it is a bit scary. :o

I'll never understand politicians. They pursue a policy that makes people like Trump arises. Afterward they blame this person and those who intend to put their vote on this person -I'll never understand politicians.

Markus

[GT182]

I think Trump could get the US back on track if he's elected. But..... he gotta stop with the bashing of everyone and everything with that mouth of his. It's gonna kill his chance in the end and that blonde thing will be elected. If that happens we're all in a world of poop. Mexico will be where everyone heads to because there won't be a Mexican national left living there. They'll all be here in the US of A.

And Cruz is not a natural born America. He's Canadian but with dual citizenship. And that makes him ineligible to be our new POTUS. It was supposed to go to court in NY but time ran out and the case was thrown out. So Trump is not wrong.

[August]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7e6gLht6OQ

:dead:


I watched like 20 seconds before I got bored and X'd out. The thing is my dislike for the Clinton gang predates this current election cycle by a couple of decades so the current spate of videos and blogs etc are not going to influence me very much.

[vienna]

In a fine exhibition of wisdom, The Florida Sun-Sentinel newspaper editorial board has declined to endorse any GOP candidate for the Presidency and is rather specific as to why:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/endorsements/fl-editorial-gop-nonendorsement-20160304-story.html

The wheels on the GOP bus don't go 'round and round'; they 'fall off and often'. It is is a sad state of affairs when there is no real viable candidate in either party to choose from; it seems we, the voters, will be either faced with, again, choosing the lesser of two evils or casting our votes in order to prevent a candidate from taking the Oval Office...

A further example of how the GOP is continuing to seemingly do everything possible to alienate voters and lose the elections comes in this latest, and in my opinion, horrific and inexcusable gaffe:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/03/08/the-gop-said-tammy-duckworth-doesnt-stand-up-for-vets-the-problem-she-lost-her-legs-in-iraq/

You know, a simple thing like really doing the homework and actually knowing about who you intend to slam would seem to be a simple, basic prerequisite; instead, the GOP has only exhibited, again, simple, basic stupidity. And they wonder why the number of registered GOP voters keeps declining...


<O>

[em2nought]

Honestly, it is a bit scary. :o

Confirms my suspicion that the GOP just does not want to win the oval office, and they'll stop at nothing to put forward a loser.:lost:

[Onkel Neal]

Bloomberg is out :hmmm:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-07/the-2016-election-risk-that-michael-bloomberg-won-t-take

[August]

There's a relief.

[Torplexed]

There's a relief.

There's a Blooming relief! :O:

[Torplexed]

At least Trump has a little foreign affairs experience, even if only with a deceased world leader. I'm sure the "Africas" shirt was a hit.

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Gaddafi.jpg

[Tchocky]

Mexico will be where everyone heads to because there won't be a Mexican national left living there. They'll all be here in the US of A.

Illegal immigration from Mexico is declining but don't let that stop you.

[AVGWarhawk]

Confirms my suspicion that the GOP just does not want to win the oval office, and they'll stop at nothing to put forward a loser.:lost:


It is a bit of a catch22 for the GOP. Here we have a bunch of old angry white guys(as many like to portray the GOP) that the voting public just can not get behind. The GOP has a rogue in their midst that they would probably embrace if not of the unprincipled approach he(Trump) is taking. This approach is appealing to the angry voter. Trumps unprincipled approach is what separates him from the GOP. In my mind, to save face, the GOP will have to go with what the votes dictate. In short, damned if they do and damned if they don't. Their only hope is the remaining states push Cruz into serious contention. If that is done then the GOP will rally behind Cruz. However, I don't think the pasty uncle every family has will beat Hillary or Bernie.

[August]

Illegal immigration from Mexico is declining but don't let that stop you.

Not much of a decline when you consider how many have already come here.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/564e4e23112314303e8b6839-640-588/us%20mexico%20immigration_mill.jpg

[Tchocky]

Hey August that chart is wrong. Or at least wildly at odds with actual Pew charts.

It confuses undocumented residents with Mexican undocumented residents.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Here's the real data. Mexican population of undocumented immigrants fell from 6.9 to 5.6 million.

Good point though.

[Oberon]

http://i.imgur.com/1vOzsFp.jpg?1

[Fr8monkey]

Guess the first thing to do is tear down the Statue of Liberty. The country if immigrants should stop all immigration... "Well, I'm here. Screw everyone else!"

https://tropicsofmeta.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/immigration-policy.gif?w=960

[AVGWarhawk]

Guess the first thing to do is tear down the Statue of Liberty. The country if immigrants should stop all immigration... "Well, I'm here. Screw everyone else!"



Quite different from a century ago. The idea was to become an American/naturalized through a process. Ellis Island. Today, immigrants arrive on work visa that are abused. Some arrive with no intentions of going through the process. Is it to much to ask to apply for citizenship, take classes and officially become a citizen? It is not a "screw everyone else. I'm here" but a process to become a citizen, productive member of society and enjoy the freedoms.

[vienna]

Hey August that chart is wrong. Or at least wildly at odds with actual Pew charts.

It confuses undocumented residents with Mexican undocumented residents.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Here's the real data. Mexican population of undocumented immigrants fell from 6.9 to 5.6 million.

Good point though.

Thanks for the link to the actual source material. It is always best to get the facts straight and accurate rather than vaguely filtered. Pew Research is one of the few non-partisan research sources out there and is a good place to separate the gist from the gibberish...


<O>

[Oberon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdGVE-TXIAA0TPc.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Guess the first thing to do is tear down the Statue of Liberty. The country if immigrants should stop all immigration... "Well, I'm here. Screw everyone else!"



Immigrants are still welcome. Illegal immigrants, not so much. If they cannot follow the immigration laws of the country, then they should stay put.

Hey August that chart is wrong. Or at least wildly at odds with actual Pew charts.

It confuses undocumented residents with Mexican undocumented residents.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Here's the real data. Mexican population of undocumented immigrants fell from 6.9 to 5.6 million.




Yes, it really does not matter where they come from, Mexico, China, England, undocumented illegal aliens are still where they are not supposed to be.

[Fr8monkey]

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal hiring problem. Tell me, why do Mexicans come here illegally? For jobs. It is the companies that illegally hire them that is the problem. Go after them; and the problem (90% of it) should solve itself.

[August]

Here's the real data. Mexican population of undocumented immigrants fell from 6.9 to 5.6 million.

Well first off that's an estimate not a fact, and second it's still over 5 MILLION illegal aliens! When it falls from 5.6 million to say 100 or even 1k then that will be something to cheer about.

Also as Neal points out that's only Mexicans. Add to that 5.6 million Guatemalans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Venezuelans, Colombians, Panamanians and a bunch of others.

Fr8monkey is correct. Start enforcing the penalty for hiring illegals and maybe we'll see a real reduction in their numbers. That and securing our borders.

[vienna]

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal hiring problem. Tell me, why do Mexicans come here illegally? For jobs. It is the companies that illegally hire them that is the problem. Go after them; and the problem (90% of it) should solve itself.

There actually is a system in place for employers to verify the citizenship status of prospective employees called E-Verify. E-Verify is, at the Federal level, a voluntary system for employers, but the Feds do require use and compliance by all Federal government contractors; some states do require businesses in their borders to use E-Verify, some requiring specified types of businesses to comply and other states requiring all businesses to comply, but these are only a few states. Efforts to make E-Verify compulsory for all employers in the US has been stymied by lobbyists for large employers (you know, all those "job creators") and major labor unions. Until E-Verify is made mandatory, and a level of penalties for non-compliance imposed at a level beyond "wrist slaps", the US, its taxpayers, will continue to suffer from the headaches of illegal immigration. Mandatory enforcement of E-Verify will, in essence, provide a sort of 'invisible wall' against illegals and can be implemented far more rapidly and at less expense than an actual physical wall, although I wouldn't mind seeing a wall go up...


<O>

[em2nought]

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal hiring problem.

No, we have a large percentage of the population that would rather just get a free hand out than work those jobs that Mexicans will do. They are so broken that there's no way they could even do those jobs for a day without getting fired. Thank you welfare state!

[Onkel Neal]

No, we have a large percentage of the population that would rather just get a free hand out than work those jobs that Mexicans will do. They are so broken that there's no way they could even do those jobs for a day without getting fired. Thank you welfare state!

So true. l wish you were running for President.

That's why when people tell me there's no way a socialist could be elected president, I laugh and say, you are out of touch with the kind of people in this country today.

[Tchocky]

Well first off that's an estimate not a fact, and second it's still over 5 MILLION illegal aliens! When it falls from 5.6 million to say 100 or even 1k then that will be something to cheer about.

I was only trying to point out that the chart in your post was wrong.

Also as Neal points out that's only Mexicans. Add to that 5.6 million Guatemalans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Venezuelans, Colombians, Panamanians and a bunch of others.

Yeah....I know. That's the whole reason your post was incorrect and how we got here.....

[AVGWarhawk]

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal hiring problem. Tell me, why do Mexicans come here illegally? For jobs. It is the companies that illegally hire them that is the problem. Go after them; and the problem (90% of it) should solve itself.


Law/policy in MD is no hiring of illegals or a fine will be imposed. The illegals will drift to states that do not have such a law. The end game to have the illegals go to their home country as work can not be had. Unless of course, they become legal through the process offered.

[AVGWarhawk]

No, we have a large percentage of the population that would rather just get a free hand out than work those jobs that Mexicans will do. They are so broken that there's no way they could even do those jobs for a day without getting fired. Thank you welfare state!


I know countless that are on the dole. :nope: It is a way of life and for a few a career.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm confused. One page I'm reading the Election thread, and the next I'm reading the Immigrant thread.

I must've turned left at Albuquerque. :-?

[MaDef]

There actually is a system in place for employers to verify the citizenship status of prospective employees called E-Verify. E-Verify is, at the Federal level, a voluntary system for employers, but the Feds do require use and compliance by all Federal government contractors; some states do require businesses in their borders to use E-Verify, some requiring specified types of businesses to comply and other states requiring all businesses to comply, but these are only a few states. Efforts to make E-Verify compulsory for all employers in the US has been stymied by lobbyists for large employers (you know, all those "job creators") and major labor unions. Until E-Verify is made mandatory, and a level of penalties for non-compliance imposed at a level beyond "wrist slaps", the US, its taxpayers, will continue to suffer from the headaches of illegal immigration. Mandatory enforcement of E-Verify will, in essence, provide a sort of 'invisible wall' against illegals and can be implemented far more rapidly and at less expense than an actual physical wall, although I wouldn't mind seeing a wall go up...


<O> I worked for a construction outfit from 2002-2007 caught up in an ICE raid, over half the employees were illegal. The owner fired them, was fined 80,000$ and we had quite a few back on the job a couple of weeks later under new names. even with e-verify
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1657360/posts

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm confused. One page I'm reading the Election thread, and the next I'm reading the Immigrant thread.

I must've turned left at Albuquerque. :-?

Immigrants have migrated to the election thread. :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

I worked for a construction outfit from 2002-2007 caught up in an ICE raid, over half the employees were illegal. The owner fired them, was fined 80,000$ and we had quite a few back on the job a couple of weeks later under new names. even with e-verify
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1657360/posts


There is no doubt many look to beat the system. Happens with every program/policy/law put in place.

There was an ICE raid in Annapolis MD. The folks that were in the area when it happened started giving the police a hard time as they took custody of the illegals. :doh:

[Mr Quatro]

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem, we have an illegal hiring problem. Tell me, why do Mexicans come here illegally? For jobs. It is the companies that illegally hire them that is the problem. Go after them; and the problem (90% of it) should solve itself.

I'm confused. One page I'm reading the Election thread, and the next I'm reading the Immigrant thread.

I must've turned left at Albuquerque. :-?

True Steve, but this is a passionate subject and has been broached by the GOP debates and even last night by Hillary and Bernie stating that they would not deport the children of illegal aliens (what are they going to do without their parents:o)

Now for Fr8monkey's question ...

Tell me, why do Mexicans come here illegally? For jobs. It is the companies that illegally hire them that is the problem. Go after them; and the problem (90% of it) should solve itself.

They come here for a better life to feed their families back in Mexico or to raise a family here in USA. In order to do this they have to work. People do hire them, because they are easy to find on any busy street corner in Southern California.

If you get stopped by a law enforcement official with illegal's in your car they can have your car towed away and face a very stiff fine.

The people themselves have a very hard time living in fox holes on the side of hills right under the noses of the rich neighbors up above them. They carry two changes of clothing with long sleeve shirts to protect the arms for picking fruit from trees. They can be seen in any laundry mat on rainy days washing the only clothes they have. They get charged $300 to live in a trailer with six to ten others like themselves.

One man I hired to help me move a 50' trailer told me that he got robbed by other Mexicans and even saw the man make another man he robbed do oral sex on him at knife point.

One man fell down and hurt his leg and had no where to go for fear of being departed so he went to the fire house and they fixed him up, but he had to limp away.

I could go on and on, but I'll let it rest for now.

They need our love like the Irish and the Germans and the Englishmen that came here before them.

We need leaders that can find a solution and work through this real problem of immigration.

I agree that we should be asking why so many wind up in Chicago though, uh? :oops:

[Oberon]

Clearly we need to build a wall between the US Presidential Thread and the European Immigration thread and make the Europeans pay for it. :hmph:

[August]

So let me get this straight. We're allowed to talk about the US Presidential race in this thread but none of the issues that the candidates are debating?

[Onkel Neal]

I'm confused. One page I'm reading the Election thread, and the next I'm reading the Immigrant thread.

I must've turned left at Albuquerque. :-?

Point taken, let's get back on topic.

So, another debate tonight. I cant watch, I'm not near a TV. But I don't think I can bear much more from Trump and Rubio, anyway.:shifty:

[Webster]

Point taken, let's get back on topic.

So, another debate tonight. I cant watch, I'm not near a TV. But I don't think I can bear much more from Trump and Rubio, anyway.:shifty:

I hear the topic will switch from who has the biggest hands to who has the biggest feet :rock: should be a nail biter :doh:

I don't think the debates should end this early but I do think at least 4 of the previous debates didn't need to happen at all.

the 12 debates is just way too much, lets face it, after super Tuesday everyone has already made up their mind anyhow.

im told they had 20 debates in the 2012 race so im glad I tuned out after they shoved Romney down our throats and I missed all that BS, but then maybe they were counting the general election debates as well

[AVGWarhawk]

So, another debate tonight. I cant watch, I'm not near a TV. But I don't think I can bear much more from Trump and Rubio, anyway.:shifty:


Amen, brother.

[vienna]

I worked for a construction outfit from 2002-2007 caught up in an ICE raid, over half the employees were illegal. The owner fired them, was fined 80,000$ and we had quite a few back on the job a couple of weeks later under new names. even with e-verify
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1657360/posts

I know the thread wants to get back to the topic, but I believe the above statement is very germane to a great deal of the problems the US has faced, particularly since The Great Recession of 2008. There are a great many criminal acts perpetuated by business entities in the US and all they get is a slap on the wrist. A fine of $80,000 may sound like a steep amount, but in the grand scheme of the world of big business, it is like a flea bite to an elephant. Think of all those Wall Street execs who gambled on the economy with disastrous results, quite often using very criminal means such as fraud, forgery, and conspiracy to enrich themselves while ruining the middle and lower class and who have yet to see a day in prison or even been bought up on charges. I recall one investment banker who referred to the fines that even were imposed as nothing more than the 'tip' left on a check. If the US wants to see an end to criminal abuses such as the one cited in the above quote, there is going to have to be an effort to get really serious and hit these gangsters where it hurts: the checkbook. Make the fine not just $80,000 dollars for the whole offense (chump change to a business that big), make it $80,000 per illegally hired employee and an $800,000 dollar fine for the overall offense; in addition, bring up the individuals involved in the hiring process who actually make the decisions on criminal charges and make them accountable for their actions. The same should be done to the high rollers on Wall Street; once the financial pinprick become a major hemorrhaging wound, you'll see a lot more compliance with the law. Unfortunately, we have no current candidates, including Trump, who seem up to taking on the Big Buck Boys...


<O>

[Fr8monkey]

Clearly we need to build a wall between the US Presidential Thread and the European Immigration thread and make the Europeans pay for it. :hmph:
I'd rather build a wall around Washington D.C.

[Oberon]

I'd rather build a wall around Washington D.C.

Then fill it with water? :hmmm:

[razark]

Then fill it with water? :hmmm:
Nah, it will fill up with manure on it's own.

[Fr8monkey]

Then fill it with water? :hmmm:
As long as it a mile high and turn it into a swimming pool... It should be a dome. That way it will hold in all the hot air and global warming will be 1/2 way solved!

[Oberon]

The zombie...I mean...Ben Carson is apparently set to back the Trumpinator.

[August]

And a good 2/3rds of the countries lawyers should be added to the mix, preferably by catapult.

Then once the evil Federals have been rendered powerless the states can finally settle the long standing scores between them, like Michigan's UP, Staten Island or who should get the Colorado River water. I know that Massachusetts and Connecticut would love to squash those pesky Rhode Island Swamp Yankees.

[Oberon]

Bernie apparently had a bit of a backlash against his joke about mental health:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heoyLpHvKV4

People with mental health issues don't seem to like being compared to Trump, Cruz, et al. :hmmm:

[vienna]

Bernie apparently had a bit of a backlash against his joke about mental health:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heoyLpHvKV4

People with mental health issues don't seem to like being compared to Trump, Cruz, et al. :hmmm:

Nobody likes being lumped together with those less capable than themselves...


<O>

[em2nought]

So true. l wish you were running for President.

My appearance in Cheri magazine, and at certain websites ensures that will never, never, ever happen. :har:

[Nippelspanner]

My appearance in Cheri magazine, and at certain websites ensures that will never, never, ever happen. :har:
:hmmm:

I'll take the risk: Pics or it didn't happen? :D

[AVGWarhawk]

My appearance in Cheri magazine, and at certain websites ensures that will never, never, ever happen. :har:


You claimed to be just consulting on a professional level. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Bernie apparently had a bit of a backlash against his joke about mental health:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heoyLpHvKV4

People with mental health issues don't seem to like being compared to Trump, Cruz, et al. :hmmm:


If any one of the GOP candidates had said that there would be blood from the media and just another talking point on how out of touch the GOP really is.

[Mr Quatro]

One by one they all cave in ... Jeb Bush will never give in :woot:

Ben Carson endorses Donald Trump
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ben-carson-endorses-donald-trump-013844043.html

[AVGWarhawk]

One by one they all cave in ... Jeb Bush will never give in :woot:

Ben Carson endorses Donald Trump
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ben-carson-endorses-donald-trump-013844043.html


Ben wants the VP slot. I agree about Jeb. He will keep clawing to hang on.

[Onkel Neal]

Nah, it will fill up with manure on it's own.

This thread is approaching Best of territory :k_rofl:

[Subnuts]

Leave Donald Trump alone! :wah:

http://www.theonion.com/article/i-suffer-severe-psychological-issues-and-i-need-he-52513

[Onkel Neal]

At last, one of the Republicans is showing some political strategy.
Marco Rubio campaign urges people to vote for John Kasich in Ohio (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-rubio-campaign-vote-kasich-ohio-20160311-story.html)

But is it too late? And will Kasich quid pro quo?

[Oberon]

The horse has not only bolted, it's run the Grand National, amassed significant winnings, invested in the stock market, retired to the Bahamas and is writing its memoirs, and now the GOP wants to shut the stable door? :/\\!!

[Fr8monkey]

On Thursday, owners of the eatery announced that, in order to “welcome” Donald Trump to Chicago over the weekend, they’ll be selling “Trump Footlongs,” which are 3-inch long hot dogs.

http://images.dailykos.com/images/222792/story_image/Screen_Shot_2016-03-11_at_1.50.58_PM.png?1457722316

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/11/1499715/-To-welcome-Donald-Chicago-s-famous-Wiener-s-Circle-offers-3-inch-Trump-Footlongs

[mapuc]

Some may believe I support Trump or people like him, when I say.

I get mad at those who is trying to disturb his democratic right to say what's on his mind.

Markus

[Fr8monkey]

What about the protesters 1st amendment rights? Guess that is too undemocratic...

[Torplexed]

They just cancelled a Trump rally in Chicago because of so many protesters. There's live coverage on CNN right now with Trump supporters skirmishing with the anti-Trump protesters.

[Oberon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LoPTdkHrjjk/Ss2XFJ7u7cI/AAAAAAAAFgI/M0bxpwjY6LE/s1600/AttackontheFourcourts-spartacist-revolt-germany-rosa-luxemburg-1919.jpg

[eddie]

Violence is breaking out at a lot of his rally's. They shut down one in St. Louis scheduled for tonight. "Go Donald Trump!" He'll bring the country together!!:haha::haha:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/get-him-out-racial-tensions-explode-at-donald-trump%E2%80%99s-rallies/ar-AAgF98g

[August]

How come it's always the Democrat supporters who are trying prevent others from exercising their right to free speech?

Chicago community activist Quo Vadis said hundreds of protesters had positioned themselves in groups around the arena, and that they intend to demonstrate right after Trump takes the stage. Their goal, he said, is "for Donald to take the stage and to completely interrupt him. The plan is to shut Donald Trump all the way down."

And these people have the nerve to try and claim the moral high ground?

[razark]

How come it's always the Democrat supporters who are trying prevent others from exercising their right to free speech?
Who called for the government to stop Trump?

[Platapus]

How come it's always the Democrat supporters who are trying prevent others from exercising their right to free speech?





Yes you are absolutely right. It is always the Democrats....only It is never the Republicans. Never since the creation of that party... only the Democrats. :hmmm:

[Fr8monkey]

Trump spouts hate and gets hate in return? Boo-hoo.

[August]

Yes you are absolutely right. It is always the Democrats....only It is never the Republicans. Never since the creation of that party... only the Democrats. :hmmm:

Sorry Counselor, next time i'll include a suitable disclaimer block at the bottom of my post. :03:

Of course I can't speak for beyond my own experience and that's all I was doing. But since you bring up the point, just how far do you have to go back in order to find a Republican example of this?

[MaDef]

Sorry Counselor, next time i'll include a suitable disclaimer block at the bottom of my post. :03:

Of course I can't speak for beyond my own experience and that's all I was doing. But since you bring up the point, just how far do you have to go back in order to find a Republican example of this?
Brooks Brothers riot of 2000?

[em2nought]

They just cancelled a Trump rally in Chicago because of so many protesters.

Well at least the good people of Chicago won't have to wait so long to check out at Walmart with all those commies back on the job. I think Walmart is full of communists. That's why you see all those shopping carts in the parking lot and only one surly cashier at the check out. They should Aldi up and fire everybody, get those cart that you put a quarter in. :up: Almost time to put a robot to work at the check out.

[Oberon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/03/angry_america_why_an_oilmans_s.html

:hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Trump spouts hate and gets hate in return? Boo-hoo.

I get it that anti Trumps want to demonstrate to express their diapproval, that's fine. But when they systematically disrupt rallies and try to silence people they oppose, that's taking it too far. Same applies to a Trump supporter, he should not be at a Sanders rally trying to provoke violence.

[Platapus]

I think it is wrong to disrupt a candidates private rally by demonstrating.

The concept of Freedom of speech* does not mean that I can disrupt someone else's speech.

Freedom of speech means that I can hold my own rally and speak my mind there.

I guess this is a reflection of today's ME generation.

*Although legally one's freedom of speech is limited at private non-government functions.

[Jimbuna]

So, if these rallies become a regular event, will it weaken or strengthen Trumps chances of eventual victory? :hmm2:

[Platapus]

So, if these rallies become a regular event, will it weaken or strengthen Trumps chances of eventual victory? :hmm2:

Mot likely won't have any appreciable effect. I think that the majority of Trump supporters don't see a problem with this so their choice won't change/

The majority of Trump haters won't change their choice.

There might be a number of Trump supporters who don't agree with this but will this truly affect their November vote? I don't think so.

It gets more publicity for Trump and further divides this country politically.

[Torplexed]

So, if these rallies become a regular event, will it weaken or strengthen Trumps chances of eventual victory? :hmm2:

Hard to say. It's a bit polarizing. Short term it might rile up Trump's more fervent supporters. Long term it might alienate voters who are worried we're in for at least four years of wearisome and endless political drama.

[Oberon]

So, if these rallies become a regular event, will it weaken or strengthen Trumps chances of eventual victory? :hmm2:

At the moment, so far as I can make out, there's two possibilities. Either Trump will win or it'll come down to a brokered convention (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention). I think a brokered convention is what the GOP is pushing for now, it's about the only thing that will stop an immediate Trump victory. Whether it'll just serve to postpone it or give one of the other candidates the chance to clench the deal is another matter.

EDIT: Oh, and as for the main prize...yeah, Torplexed summed it up pretty well, it's probably going to get nasty, and despite people calling on Trump to cut the rhetoric or on the Dems to control their supporters, I don't think that either political leadership actually has control over their supporters.

[Mr Quatro]

If Trump wins he will give the election over to either Hillary or Bernie.
Right now it looks like Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton.

Did you notice the crowd at the Chicago event?
Did the Trump supporters look like all American white people with 'For Trump' signs wearing American flag clothing?

While the rowdy protestors were black, hispanic looking carrying signs against Trump.

Obama won by 3 million votes and it is estimated that at least 3 million black voters voted in the last election.

Put two and two together and you already have a good clue who will win in November.

Hillary Clinton and first dude Bill Clinton :yep::hmmm::o

[Aktungbby]

Right now it looks like Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton.


Put two and two together and you already have a good clue who will win in November.

Hillary Clinton and first dude Bill Clinton :yep::hmmm::o
Now that's real imagination BBY:har: Trump and the GOP are destroyed imho: Hillary to win all!
I agree Aktungbby. Sadly.... HELLO Madame President...just tell BubbaBBY to stay out of the oval office fer the next four years...it'll save on carpet cleaning:O: https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnw2hvPg08RQpsA/giphy.gif

[Armistead]

If Trump wins he will give the election over to either Hillary or Bernie.
Right now it looks like Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton.

Did you notice the crowd at the Chicago event?
Did the Trump supporters look like all American white people with 'For Trump' signs wearing American flag clothing?

While the rowdy protestors were black, hispanic looking carrying signs against Trump.

Obama won by 3 million votes and it is estimated that at least 3 million black voters voted in the last election.

Put two and two together and you already have a good clue who will win in November.

Hillary Clinton and first dude Bill Clinton :yep::hmmm::o

It's doubtful Hillary will have the Obama effect, not that the Trump effect wouldn't pull out the voters for her, but not for her, against Trump.

What many are missing is the middle class working person are the masses stirring for Trump. People are sick of the right wing religious wanting to push themselves on people through govt {Cruz} and people are sick of the liberal politically correct mind indoctrinated mind that believes they are smarter and can tell you how to be, limit your speech, while promoting their own views. People want jobs and security not mass debt and having to work twice as harder to get by while large elements of society are taken care of by govt.

Trump is fitting the mold for many right now sick of it all..

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for the responses peeps.

The way I am seeing it (and I readily admit to knowing very little of American politics) is that most of the people are sick of the 'norm' and Trump would currently be seen as being a break from the 'norm'.

I'm not sure how long that appeal will last though.

[August]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12042737_998778603538387_4349161942104460205_n.jpg ?oh=61713265975e5070f2f5d81f77af9ee3&oe=5788C52A

[Torplexed]

Thanks for the responses peeps.

The way I am seeing it (and I readily admit to knowing very little of American politics) is that most of the people are sick of the 'norm' and Trump would currently be seen as being a break from the 'norm'.

That's been a big part of Sanders' appeal too.

[STEED]

Vote Trump. :)

[NeonSamurai]

These are the countries that donated
Tenerife Island government
$25,000 to $50,000
Emirate of Ras al-Khaimah
$25,000 to $50,000
Government of Jamaica
$50,000 to $100,000
Kingdom of Bahrain
$50,000 to $100,000
Federal Republic of Germany
$100,000 to $250,000
Embassy of Algeria
$250,000 to $500,000
Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada
$250,000 to $500,000
Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office
$500,000 to $1,000,000
State of Qatar
$1,000,000 to $5,000,000
Government of Brunei Darussalam
$1,000,000 to $5,000,000
Sultanate of Oman
$1,000,000 to $5,000,000
United Arab Emirates
$1,000,000 to $5,000,000
UK Department for International Development
$1,000,000 to $5,000,000
Commonwealth of Australia
$5,000,000 to $10,000,000
Government of the Netherlands
$5,000,000 to $10,000,000
State of Kuwait
$5,000,000 to $10,000,000
Australian Agency for International Development
$10,000,000 to $25,000,000
Government of Norway
$10,000,000 to $25,000,000
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
$10,000,000 to $25,000,000

The actual amount is not known, nor are the dates.

If you want to see everyone that has donated (its a pretty big list).
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors

By your argument August, they must have received guns too.


As for the main discussion... Drump is little more than a sock puppet and a thug, spouting what ever he thinks will get people riled and get him votes. He changes his opinions constantly, spouts piles of rhetoric, and does nothing but amp up tensions. He reminds me of the worst of the talking heads on the right, spouting on and on about utter nonsense for their own profit.

Now if you take that, and think I am a Hillary supporter, guess again as I don't think she is much better. I don't like Hillary at all, I think she is in the pocket of big business too.

Bernie is a bit of an interesting candidate, but it looks like the Democratic party is just going to ram Hillary through, no matter what the populace thinks or wants. Real land of the free...

I really hope the USA pulls itself out of this right/left divide and drop all the stupid hollow rhetoric that goes on on both sides, your both wrong ok? So knock it off already. Seriously if this does not stop and soon, the consequences could be pretty dire, such as civil war, or the creation of a fascist state. Please, I'm worried about you. :(

[August]

Lot's of funny ones this morning!

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/10396280_1718247961745979_2295426532158907088_n.jp g?oh=8dd484b5c713a5d7d16adefe8a1c8b4b&oe=574FBCD7

[Torplexed]

Vote Trump. :)

I can't stomach Hillary. She comes across inauthentic most of the time. But in terms of temperament I think I'd sooner vote for Caligula than Trump.

Having some horses appointed to the Senate might be nice. Better than the back end of horses we have in there now.

[Onkel Neal]

I think it is wrong to disrupt a candidates private rally by demonstrating.

The concept of Freedom of speech* does not mean that I can disrupt someone else's speech.

Freedom of speech means that I can hold my own rally and speak my mind there.

I guess this is a reflection of today's ME generation.

*Although legally one's freedom of speech is limited at private non-government functions.

I agree with you on this. 100%

If one doesn't like what candidate X says, at least let him have his say, then dismantle it with reason, logic, and facts. Hold his feet to the fire, make him answer the questions and follow up, be thorough. I deplore people who try to shut down people they differ with by hurling insults. Sometimes, there is a racist or bigot in the mix, but reaching for this label every time someone says something you don't like is intellectually lazy, and pathetic.

Trump did not help anything by acting like a tough guy when the one or two people disrupted his earlier rallies. "Get him out of here", that's ok. "I'd like to punch him in the face", no, bad and stupid. That's Trump, speak first, think.....later, maybe. And then we see some aging hippie sucker punch a dude as he's being led out, that's pretty chickensh.... (Sorry, I have no other word for it :dead:).

If I go to a political rally to learn more about a candidate, why should I have to be subjected to screaming people calling me names? From the TV footage I have seen (2 days after the fact, truck driver), it certainly appears the Bernie fans and black lives matter make up the majority of the protesters, calling Trump Hitler and screaming about Hate! Where's all the PC tolerance they always preach? You know, I gave Bernie some credit for having integrity, but his followers certainly lack it. Yeah, this is socialism in all its glory. Shame and shut down anyone who disagrees with your vision of tolerance by bombarding them with hateful rhetoric and threats of rioting and violence. There's going to be bloodshed if this keeps up.

http://rennlist.com/forums/upload/thisbusiness.jpg

[u crank]

But in terms of temperament I think I'd sooner vote for Caligula than Trump.


:har:

I have often wondered and now more than ever why moderate candidates of either party can get no traction. In my country this is how people get elected. They try to appeal to a very broad base and not alienate voters. I am baffled by this part of American politics. Any comments?:hmmm:

[Torplexed]

:har:

I have often wondered and now more than ever why moderate candidates of either party can get no traction. In my country this is how people get elected. They try to appeal to a very broad base and not alienate voters. I am baffled by this part of American politics. Any comments?:hmmm:

That's a tough but good question. Hard to answer in short, but I think a lot of it has to do with the old streak of populism that runs deep in American politics. The cool, intellectual part of us applauds the Thomas Jefferson, JFK and John Kasich types. Yet, the hot, emotional part of us admires the William Jennings Bryan, Huey Long and Donald Trump types.

[Oberon]

Bernie denies that his supporters have been told to go and disrupt Trumps rally, in reply Trump tweets:

Bernie Sanders is lying when he says his disruptors aren't told to go to my events. Be careful Bernie, or my supporters will go to yours!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/708983126601682944

Bernie is a Jew though, so I guess he's used to having angry men threatening violence against his supporters:

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/300039261.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Bernie denies that his supporters have been told to go and disrupt Trumps rally, in reply Trump tweets:




Bernie is a Jew though, so I guess he's used to having angry men threatening violence against his supporters:



Did you have to go there?

[Armistead]

Thanks for the responses peeps.

The way I am seeing it (and I readily admit to knowing very little of American politics) is that most of the people are sick of the 'norm' and Trump would currently be seen as being a break from the 'norm'.

I'm not sure how long that appeal will last though.

That's really the truth of it, it's like many are say'n a big FU to the usual politics and corruption. Most know while Trump openly says crazy stuff, the others are no different, just hide behind political correctness so they can do the bidding for their corporate leaders......which is worse really.......? Republican turn out is up almost 60% , Dem down almost 25% .... This is a race that the middle working class want their country back, where vets want to be treated better than illegals, to not have insurance premiums gone up 30-50% for worse care for those that actually pay for it.... Once the middle class held almost 60% of real wealth, now they hold about 5%.....People are just done with corporate ran puppets like Hillary...

[em2nought]

That's really the truth of it, it's like many are say'n a big FU to the usual politics and corruption. Most know while Trump openly says crazy stuff, the others are no different, just hide behind political correctness so they can do the bidding for their corporate leaders......which is worse really.......? Republican turn out is up almost 60% , Dem down almost 25% .... This is a race that the middle working class want their country back, where vets want to be treated better than illegals, to not have insurance premiums gone up 30-50% for worse care for those that actually pay for it.... Once the middle class held almost 60% of real wealth, now they hold about 5%.....People are just done with corporate ran puppets like Hillary...

Sounds about right. Any more fed up and we'll probably start dressing like native indians and throwing Bernie Sanders socialist followers into Boston Harbor. :arrgh!: Can't throw the tea in there, I like tea, especially PG Tips!

[Oberon]

Did you have to go there?

Eh, a Jewish socialist getting threats from a right wing populist who is in line for being the President of the US. It's hard not to, really.

[Platapus]

Is there any evidence that Bernie instructed "his people" (what ever that means) to disrupt Donald's rally? Is there any evidence that he even knew about it before hand.

Before people are labeled as lying, there should be some evidence.

[Oberon]

Is there any evidence that Bernie instructed "his people" (what ever that means) to disrupt Donald's rally? Is there any evidence that he even knew about it before hand.

Before people are labeled as lying, there should be some evidence.

Trump seems to think so, but then again we've seen his track record with the truth, I mean he claimed to have stopped his rally on the advice of the police:

We met with security and the law enforcement, who I think did a terrific job, and they told me it’d be best not to go in and do the speech.

But then the Chicago PD replied with:

CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi told the Associated Press that police never told the Trump campaign there was a security threat at the venue. He said the department had sufficient manpower on the scene to handle any situation.

Guglielmi said the university’s police department also did not recommend that Trump call off the event. The decision was made “independently” by the campaign, according to Guglielmi.


Then there's the thousands of American Muslims celebrating 9/11 lie, and...well, there's a whole list here:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

Personally I think that some Bernie supporters did organise a protest against the rally, but Bernie would likely have had no idea that such a thing was created, let alone authorised it. :nope:

[Armistead]

Is there any evidence that Bernie instructed "his people" (what ever that means) to disrupt Donald's rally? Is there any evidence that he even knew about it before hand.

Before people are labeled as lying, there should be some evidence.

I doubt it, it's more guilt by association. Sort of like Clinton say'n she's not controlled by corporations, although she gladly takes millions from them...

[eddie]

Show me a politician who isn't taking money from corporations, lol

[August]

Show me a politician who isn't taking money from corporations, lol


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151224062049-bernie-sanders-intvw-donald-trump-cuomo-newday-00000024-large-169.jpg

[Oberon]

Quite, the one being beaten by someone who has taken millions from corporations, and for that matter the only one who scores a zero on the 'Pants on Fire' section of PolitiFact out of the current 2016 presidential line-up, and second from last in terms of 'False' statements (behind Kaisch).
The leader in those two sections?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/

[mapuc]

On a friends wall I saw a picture of James T. Kirk and in the bottom of the picture following was written
"This election is starting to look like the kobayashi Maru"

The picture was called kirk 2016

Markus

[Oberon]

I prefer the Alien Vs Predator analogy.

[vienna]

Is there any evidence that Bernie instructed "his people" (what ever that means) to disrupt Donald's rally? Is there any evidence that he even knew about it before hand.

Before people are labeled as lying, there should be some evidence.

Evidence, facts, and, certainly, truth have never been a strong feature of Trump in any of his doings and declarations. It's all style over substance, the sort of tack taken by Reagan during his time. Just say something overtly broad, claim it is the truth without any facts or citations to back it up, and, as in the case of "The Big Lie", say loudly and often enough to make seem like the truth. I have always valued a person's ability to back up their statements with some sort of references that are tangible. Whatever you think of Bill Clinton, when he appears on television and is interviewed, he is highly adept at drawing, from memory, on a great reserve of facts and figures to support whatever point he's is asked to comment upon; this is a dying art. JFK, Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley Jr., J.Peter Grace (Head of the Reagan-era Grace Commission), hell, even Ross Perot could cite chapter and verse, at will, and without hesitation and, when checked on, their cites were accurate. Those are the people for whom I have respect and admiration; the current lot of sloganeers, trite cliche artists, and idiots who seem to think bellowing absurdities without foundation is "truth" are little more than carnival sideshow barkers trying to sell the voters on the value of their tawdry, deficient, and deceptive "product". I will very willingly vote for any person, of any party, who will talk about actual, specific, issues and who has the ability to back up their stands and claims with facts and not fatuous gibberish. So far, I'm not seeing anyone in the current mix...


<O>

[mapuc]

Heard something interesting in yesterday's news. "The problems of Trump's meeting in Chicago, shows the disunity that exist in the United States, a rift that has lurked beneath the surface, but after Trump's inception, has risen to the surface"


Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Heard something interesting in yesterday's news. "The problems of Trump's meeting in Chicago, shows the disunity that exist in the United States, a rift that has lurked beneath the surface, but after Trump's inception, has risen to the surface"


Markus


Trump is bringing out those that have been silent for a long time. There is a lot of them. There is certainly a rift that has been lurking. Trump is now their voice.

[Bilge_Rat]

I'm sure we will see more and more of these stories as we get closer to the general.


How Trump’s $50m golf club became $1.4m when it came time to pay tax


An attempt by Donald Trump (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/donaldtrump) to slash the property tax bill on a golf club outside New York City may be undermined by records indicating that he previously said the property was worth 35 times more than the value he is now trying to convince a judge to approve.

The Republican presidential frontrunner is suing the town of Ossining in Westchester County to reduce the taxes on Trump National Golf Club, a 147-acre property with a lavish clubhouse and 18-hole course whose managers are separately accused of causing floods that led to $240,000 worth of damage to local public facilities.

Trump’s lawsuit in county court argues that the luxurious private club, which he bought in foreclosure for about $8m in the mid-1990s before spending what he claimed at the club’s opening event was another $45m in improvements, has been unfairly assessed and is in fact worth only $1.4m.



http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/12/donald-trump-briarcliff-manor-golf-course-tax

what I don't get is how anyone can think a Billionaire who has never had any ambition other than making money and who goes out of his way to milk the "system" will actually turm around and reform said "system".

well as P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute". :woot:

[Dan D]

The German car industry will buy Trump because we have ****loads of money here. Every American will be forced to drive a Volkswagon. Ha ha ha.

[Mr Quatro]

Heard something interesting in yesterday's news. "The problems of Trump's meeting in Chicago, shows the disunity that exist in the United States, a rift that has lurked beneath the surface, but after Trump's inception, has risen to the surface"


Markus

What the news didn't tell you is that Chicago is a strong hold for Democrats ...
They don't organize a crowd that big out of compassion ... someone paid someone to organize, beat the bushes, give free bus rides (like I suspect Trump does to his meeting places).

The truth is much bigger and shadier than we can ever get on the news :yep:

Remember those protest of poor people against the wealthy corporations a few years ago, especially in Oakland etc? The FBI said that those were paid for demostrations paid by with free drugs, alcohol, sex, MJ, food clothes.

Someone has deep pockets and no tattle tells have surfaced as of yet.

[Dan D]

These are the big bets against the market you should be making right now (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/12093186/These-are-the-big-bets-against-the-market-you-should-be-making-right-now.html)

"Go long on Poland" or Greece, hedgefonds, losers.

[Oberon]

Someone has deep pockets and no tattle tells have surfaced as of yet.

I believe MoveOn.org are the ones who are likely responsible. Who pulled their strings...well, follow the money, and who has the most in the Democratic, or indeed perhaps even the Republican campaign. :hmmm:

Hell, I wouldn't even put it past Trump to pull the strings to make the protest happen himself, it's been nothing but free publicity for him and he gets the play the martyr.

[August]

Is there any evidence that Bernie instructed "his people" (what ever that means) to disrupt Donald's rally? Is there any evidence that he even knew about it before hand.

Before people are labeled as lying, there should be some evidence.

Personally ordered? I doubt it, First two words, "Plausible Deniability". Second a candidate isn't a General whose every order is obeyed and nothing is done without their approval. Well maybe the micromanaged Clintonistas would require authorization from her highness for such a stunt but not the loosely controlled Berniacs.

But pre-authorized or not the bottom line is that organized groups who support Bernies candidacy planned and executed this, they are quite proud of it, and openly say they'll do it again. AFAIK Sanders hasn't done anything to repudiate or even condemn their actions so he at least approves even if he didn't order them to do it.

So if you're going to excoriate Trump for not disavowing David Duke fast enough then you should treating Sanders the same way.

[August]

Hell, I wouldn't even put it past Trump to pull the strings to make the protest happen himself, it's been nothing but free publicity for him and he gets the play the martyr.

Be careful Oberon, stretching for your slander like that might make you throw your back out or something.

[GT182]

Being from the North Country of NY I've listened to Sanders many times over the years on the news station out of Plattsburgh, NY WPTZ Channel 5. He's a Socialist idiot and it doesn't take much to get him spitting and sputtering during a speech. AND I would not put past him to do this to Trump. He has an agenda and that's to get rid of Trump any way he can. I also believe it's the same agenda for Clinton. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.... same for Sanders tho I could probably throw him a foot of two farther.

[vienna]

Personally ordered? I doubt it, First two words, "Plausible Deniability". Second a candidate isn't a General whose every order is obeyed and nothing is done without their approval. Well maybe the micromanaged Clintonistas would require authorization from her highness for such a stunt but not the loosely controlled Berniacs.

But pre-authorized or not the bottom line is that organized groups who support Bernies candidacy planned and executed this, they are quite proud of it, and openly say they'll do it again. AFAIK Sanders hasn't done anything to repudiate or even condemn their actions so he at least approves even if he didn't order them to do it.

So if you're going to excoriate Trump for not disavowing David Duke fast enough then you should treating Sanders the same way.

So far, not seeing much more than conjecture, supposition, and, perhaps, wishful thinking on your part. Got any facts to back this up or are you just trying, again, to pass off bellicose opinion as solid fact? As far as Trump maybe being behind some of the "disturbances" at his rallies, well, its a tried and proven tactic to foment false incidents so as to solidify their "philosophies"; it did work out well in the beginning for the little German paperhanger with the funny 'stache...

And regarding condoning violent actions, wasn't it Trump who has stoked the flames and has even publicly offered to pick up the legal tabs for the violent acts of his followers? Sounds like condoning to me...



<O>

[August]

Take off the blinders vienna.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-chicago-anti-trump-protest-was-only-the-beginning

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-chicago-rally-protest-bernie-sanders-supporters-election-2016/

[Bubblehead1980]

Whatever is said about Trump, he actually has the silent majority motivated and ready to save our republic. I am actually excited about voting tomorrow.I vote anyways but have never been excited. I have my reservations about him, but overall believe he is what we need at this moment in time.Hopefully power structure in this country understands the damage it will do if they screw him out of the election and will let the will of the people stand. Vote, let's save our republic and make america great again.

[em2nought]

Hopefully power structure in this country understands the damage it will do if they screw him out of the election and will let the will of the people stand. They are so out of touch that I really think they have no idea. :nope:

[Oberon]

Be careful Oberon, stretching for your slander like that might make you throw your back out or something.

Eh, we got away with Trump being a Democratic stalking horse, I think we'll get away with this. :up:

[Cybermat47]

Hell, I wouldn't even put it past Trump to pull the strings to make the protest happen himself, it's been nothing but free publicity for him and he gets the play the martyr.

Unlikely. Trump seems to think that the majority of Americans support him (wether or not this is true is irrelevant in this case), and he's using this in his campaign.

Having people protest him directly challenges that idea. It just doesn't make sense for him to do it.

[Nippelspanner]

Vote, let's save our republic and make america great again.
Guess the gut-wrenchingly pathos-swollen propaganda he spilled did its job.
Then again... the username checks out.
Go vote Trump, at least you will be very silent over the next years when things surprisingly don't work out that well... :roll:

[Oberon]

Unlikely. Trump seems to think that the majority of Americans support him (wether or not this is true is irrelevant in this case), and he's using this in his campaign.

Having people protest him directly challenges that idea. It just doesn't make sense for him to do it.

True, a fair point. T'was, as August put it, a bit of a stretch.

I hear a lot of people making comparisons with the 1968 elections, I shall have to do some more reading on what happened back then.

[Cybermat47]

Apparently, the most popular Republican candidate among the military is Trump, while Sanders is the pick for Democrat supporters in uniform.

I saw a civilian call anyone in the military who supported Sanders instead of Trump an idiot... this was after seeing someone currently in the Army say that he was going to vote for Sanders.

It's disgusting to see civilians knowingly insult members of the military based on their political beliefs :down: Regardless of who they vote for, they still put their lives on the line, and deserve, at the least, respect.

Yeah, that got off-topic, but I feel pretty strongly about the treatment of soldiers.

[Oberon]

Go vote Trump, at least you will be very silent over the next years when things surprisingly don't work out that well... :roll:

Don't be daft, if Trump gets the vote and things don't work out then it will all be the fault of either democratic sabotage, Mexican sabotage, Muslim sabotage, European sabotage, Canadian sabotage, or something else. :03:

[Oberon]

Apparently, the most popular Republican candidate among the military is Trump, while Sanders is the pick for Democrat supporters in uniform.

I saw a civilian call anyone in the military who supported Sanders instead of Trump an idiot... this was after seeing someone currently in the Army say that he was going to vote for Sanders.

It's disgusting to see civilians insult members of the military based on their political beliefs :down:

It's a sad indication of how divisive this election cycle is, and we're just in the opening stages of it.
Sanders isn't going to get the Democratic nomination though, not unless he clears the board today, which is pretty unlikely, and even then it probably won't be enough to beat Clinton.
So it's going to be Trump vs Clinton, unless the GOP can wrangle a rabbit out of the Stetson, but I can't see that happening.

[Mr Quatro]

So it's going to be Trump vs Clinton, unless the GOP can wrangle a rabbit out of the Stetson, but I can't see that happening.

The Gop still has one ace left in the hole :yep:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv031116dAPR20160311044518.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Don't be daft, if Trump gets the vote and things don't work out then it will all be the fault of either democratic sabotage, Mexican sabotage, Muslim sabotage, European sabotage, Canadian sabotage, or something else. :03:


Things have not worked out for the past 2 decades of presidents. What is the difference? There is none. Just another 4-8 more years of stagnant cesspool.

[AVGWarhawk]

They are so out of touch that I really think they have no idea. :nope:

There in lies the problem. Everyone thinks the other is completely out of touch. Out of touch of what exactly?

[Aktungbby]

Out of touch of what exactly? Gettin' ready to get out of touch of what! :arrgh!:: http://costaricaembassy.be/cache/costa/10000049-cedula_frente-182bcf023c4cca1f.jpg

[vienna]

Take off the blinders vienna.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-chicago-anti-trump-protest-was-only-the-beginning

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-chicago-rally-protest-bernie-sanders-supporters-election-2016/


Still no actual proof of an effort orchestrated directly by Sanders or his organization. Just some of his supporters doing things on their own, much like the supporters of Trump who have let their "inner thug" out without direct orchestration by Trump himself; however, I don't recall Sanders offering to pay the legal cost of those of his supporters who do protest at Trump rallies. Seems the instigation, fomentation, and approbation of the Trump supporters goes much, much farther up the ladder of the Trump hierarchy than the equivalent on the Sanders' tree. Still no definitive proof and still no verifiable point to the argument...


<O>

[Bilge_Rat]

some interesting thoughts about the TRUMP STEAMROLLER. I have been crunching numbers.

so far, as of march 14, 2016, TRUMP has received 4,345,172 votes in GOP primaries. This looks impressive, but it only represents 35% of the votes, so actually 2/3 of GOP primary voters have voted against TRUMP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

what is also interesting is that as of march 14, 2012, around 4,800,000 votes had been cast in GOP primaries for Mitt Romney.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012

TRUMP STEAMROLLER? looks like typical media/campaign hyperbole again.

latest polls have Clinton beating Trump 47 to 41%.

at this point in 2012, Obama was tied with Romney 46 to 46%.

[Mr Quatro]

so far, as of march 14, 2016, TRUMP has received 4,345,172 votes in GOP primaries. This looks impressive, but it only represents 35% of the votes, so actually 2/3 of GOP primary voters have voted against TRUMP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

what is also interesting is that as of march 14, 2012, around 4,800,000 votes had been cast in GOP primaries for Mitt Romney.



That comes to 5 million more votes cast in 2012 which knocks Trumps saying more GOP voters are registering and voting than ever before.

Maybe they are, right now they are the deciding factor, uh?

[vienna]

some interesting thoughts about the TRUMP STEAMROLLER. I have been crunching numbers.

so far, as of march 14, 2016, TRUMP has received 4,345,172 votes in GOP primaries. This looks impressive, but it only represents 35% of the votes, so actually 2/3 of GOP primary voters have voted against TRUMP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

what is also interesting is that as of march 14, 2012, around 4,800,000 votes had been cast in GOP primaries for Mitt Romney.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012

TRUMP STEAMROLLER? looks like typical media/campaign hyperbole again.

latest polls have Clinton beating Trump 47 to 41%.

at this point in 2012, Obama was tied with Romney 46 to 46%.

The biggest problem the GOP has had is the rise of Independents, such as myself; the GOP has been relegated, nationally to a third place status among registered voters stating a political preference, by some polls and studies at a level of less than 1/3 of the total number of registered voter overall. In addition, while both parties are losing voters to the Independent ranks, the GOP is hemorrhaging voters at a rate twice that of the DEMs. If every single voter registered as GOP voted for Trump, he would still be about 15% of the total vote short of winning the popular vote; likewise if every single voter registered as DEM voted for Clinton, she would be somewhere around needing 12% to win the popular vote. [Note: I am basing these estimates on a rough average of the various studies and polls I have researched; the actual percentages may be a bit higher or lower, but in no case have I found a non-partisan breakdown giving either party a >50% result].

The Pew Research article:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Pew Research gives the GOP a registered 23% of total voters (I actually think this number is a bit low, but I will use it as it comes from arguably the best non-partisan source). If Bilge_Rat's numbers are correct, 35% of the 23% of registered GOP voter comes out to be about only a bit more than 8% of the total registered voters of all parties; that is a long row to hoe if you want to get the majority of the national popular vote. Trump would either need to get a very substantial proportion of the Independent vote combined with DEM defections to win or a massive percentage of the total Independent vote. The question then becomes how many DEMs would actually defect and vote for Trump given his public stance in diametric opposition to DEM policies and values and how many of my fellow Independents would feel comfortable voting for Trump and how many would feel comfortable voting for Clinton. Here, demographics may play a larger role than political stance:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/30/a-different-look-at-generations-and-partisanship/

Also, remember, Independents, in many primary states are not allowed to vote for partisan candidates; the large and ever increasing number of Independents very often do not come into consideration when the votes are tallied, resulting in rather skewed perception of what may be the actual temperament of the general registered voting population; the effect is to seem more popular or effective when the actual pool of approbation is relatively small and self-referential. I would be kind of like someone saying he knows he a very good person because he is the best person he knows...


<O>

[Oberon]

Sounds like Rubio might be dropping out...

Eyup, there he goes.

Now it's down to Cruz and Kaisch.

[August]

Still no actual proof of an effort orchestrated directly by Sanders or his organization. Just some of his supporters doing things on their own, much like the supporters of Trump who have let their "inner thug" out without direct orchestration by Trump himself; however, I don't recall Sanders offering to pay the legal cost of those of his supporters who do protest at Trump rallies. Seems the instigation, fomentation, and approbation of the Trump supporters goes much, much farther up the ladder of the Trump hierarchy than the equivalent on the Sanders' tree. Still no definitive proof and still no verifiable point to the argument...


<O>

Like I said blinders.

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks Rubio. Now go do the senatorial job you were voted in to do for your state. A year wasted.

[vienna]

Like I said blinders.

Like I said, unsubstantiated, bellicose, and meaningless...



<O>

[Fr8monkey]

Looks like Hillary and Trump (to the collective sighs of Wall Street and the military complex).

[vienna]

Looking at the numbers, Trump, IIRC, still hasn't won a primary by a solid majority of all voter, still only possessing pluralities; and it looks like Kasich, despite Trump's increased efforts is going to top the vote...

RE: Rubio - any indication who he'll support, now? I find it a little difficult to actually believe he'll wholeheartedly back Trump; if he does, it'll probably be one of those sort of back-handed endorsements...


<O>

[Nippelspanner]

Things have not worked out for the past 2 decades of presidents. What is the difference? There is none. Just another 4-8 more years of stagnant cesspool.
Gotta call BS on that.
Bush sure wrecked the country good, but people ignoring Obama's achievements simply seems childish to me and simply politically motivated.
"Can't say good things bout Bo, he is a democrat afterall!" :shifty:
Not a fan of this guy, he is a politician after all and I despise 99% of them.

But it's not that he didn't do anything, or that he "failed".
Cut the Crap (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)

[Fr8monkey]

Rubio - any indication who he'll support, now?Well, Christie is already Trumps ball handler... Maybe he can carry his comb?

I find it a little difficult to actually believe he'll wholeheartedly back TrumpChristie and Carson put out speeches and ads against Trump and then ran to him after they dropped out; so it isn't impossible.

But it's not that he didn't do anything, or that he "failed".Just drinking deeply from the Foxnews Kool-aid trough. Can't convince ultra right wingers of anything different. I know. Talking to some of my family is like running headlong into a brick wall.

It all starts with; "Not true!" and degrades to name calling... not worth it.

[em2nought]

There in lies the problem. Everyone thinks the other is completely out of touch. Out of touch of what exactly?

On picking a candidate that can win a presidential election for one.

On what makes a good leader: its not sitting in a pew occasionally, voting the party line, having a nice mani and pedi, never doing anything controversial.

Lemon. Wet. Good. :rotfl2:

[razark]

But it's not that he didn't do anything, or that he "failed".
Cut the Crap (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)
I just had a quick skim over part of the list. My guess is going to be that most of these "accomplishments" will be pointed out to be nothing more than attempts to steal Americans' rights, attempts to steal Americans' guns, attempts to steal Americans' religion, or other such attempts to push forward his evil agenda to destroy America. :hmph:

[August]

It's a whole lot of nothing.

[Fr8monkey]

I just had a quick skim over part of the list. My guess is going to be that most of these "accomplishments" will be pointed out to be nothing more than attempts to steal Americans' rights, attempts to steal Americans' guns, attempts to steal Americans' religion, or other such attempts to push forward his evil agenda to destroy America. :hmph:
Can we stop this "Democrats are coming to take all our guns." Bulls***? Name one gun Obama took away, while the NRA approves of all the public and school shootings? Trying to curb guns going to felons and the like isn't "Taking your guns".

[August]

Can we stop this "Democrats are coming to take all our guns." Bulls***? Name one gun Obama took away, while the NRA approves of all the public and school shootings? Trying to curb guns going to felons and the like isn't "Taking your guns".

A key word you missed there is "attempts". The Democrats have indeed made many attempts to ban firearms and continue to do so as recently as this past December. You know that if this bill or any of it's predecessors had made it to Obama's desk he would have gladly signed it so lets stop with the fiction that the Democrats aren't after peoples guns because they are.

[Onkel Neal]

Gotta call BS on that.
Bush sure wrecked the country good, but people ignoring Obama's achievements simply seems childish to me and simply politically motivated.
"Can't say good things bout Bo, he is a democrat afterall!" :shifty:
Not a fan of this guy, he is a politician after all and I despise 99% of them.

But it's not that he didn't do anything, or that he "failed".
Cut the Crap (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)


Obama has been a monumentally weak sister president. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/15/the-obama-doctrine-passive-messianism.html)

[eddie]

It's a whole lot of nothing.

Just like Bush Jr.

[Fr8monkey]

A key word you missed there is "attempts". The Democrats have indeed made many attempts to ban firearms and continue to do so as recently as this past December. You know that if this bill or any of it's predecessors had made it to Obama's desk he would have gladly signed it so lets stop with the fiction that the Democrats aren't after peoples guns because they are.
BS. Name 3 if there are so many...

[Mr Quatro]

It's almost like a football game with Trump and the other three stooges ... :D

Last quarter with Trump in a solid lead ... Clinton proving America doesn't need socialism.
I was worried a little bit that Sanders would win ... now he's on the back burner glad when we don't have to hear his voice.

How can Hillary get all of his supporters is a mystery to me? They sure won't vote for Trump.

I hope Obama has a hole in his bucket or he will be worse than Jimmy Carter was when he left office signing away everything he could under executive order.

Obama Care and Obama's library and book he will write and his speaking fees will be his legacy.

Thank you President Obama for no boots on the ground in Syria and for that our nation is better off :yep:

I'm going to bed I miss that extra hour we lost ... predictable future with Trump or Clinton more promises, more BS for us. :yep:

[Skybird]

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/15/11233676/move-canada-poll

[STEED]

Listening to the radio debate last night and something odd was said, the media is portraying Trump as a Nazi when in fact the real Nazi is Clinton who has already shown she hates the poor and Middle East brown/black men and so on. Is this reaction over the top? :hmm2:

[tomfon]

If someone hates black/brown men then he/she is a racist,right? Devoted Nazis were (devoted) racists but this doesn't prove that a racist is necessarily someone who endorses Nazism, i guess. The problem is that racism often goes hand in hand with fascism and that brings us closer to Nazism.:hmm2:

[fumo30]

If someone hates black/brown men then he/she is a racist,right? Devoted Nazis were (devoted) racists but this doesn't prove that a racist is necessarily someone who endorses Nazism, i guess. The problem is that racism often goes hand in hand with fascism and that brings us closer to Nazism.:hmm2:

Who were those devoted nazis at all?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_I1rq54ZaI5I90YD8br87xsqZ1UR7q aB4A7gxzBa7jOSob1jc

[tomfon]

I see what you mean but there is no way i could answer your question...

[August]

BS. Name 3 if there are so many...

Start on these and when I have time i'll look up more of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban_of_2013

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4269/text

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:h.r.437:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/15/holders-gun-ban-list-mental-defectives-mostly-vete/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/obama-gun-control-proposals_n_2486919.html

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.R.226:

[fumo30]

I see what you mean but there is no way i could answer your question...

Even if you say you can't answer my question, I consider it pretty good answer anyway.:up:

OK, no more offtopic not to get moderators agitated.

[Oberon]

Trump: "You'd have riots" if I'm not given the nomination:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/16/trump-youd-have-riots-if-contested-convention-results-in-a-different-nominee/

[Catfish]

^ I'm so scared, i will vote for Trump even if' i'm living in Germany :D

[STEED]

Trump: "You'd have riots" if I'm not given the nomination:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/16/trump-youd-have-riots-if-contested-convention-results-in-a-different-nominee/

Not sure about riots but the kettle will get hotter thats for sure.

[Catfish]

:hmmm: This elector's system looks very much like the absolutist feudal "Kurfuerst" (hist. elector) system in Europe back then, if you exchange aristocrats with billionaires .. i'm curious how they have been able to sell this as democracy :O:
[/cynical mode]

[Oberon]

The question is whether it's a Democracy or a Republic, or whether the two things can be the same.

That's pretty philosophical though.


Meanwhile in other news, Obama has named his nomination for the Supreme Court, it's Merrick Garland:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland

GOP rejection in five...four...three...

[AVGWarhawk]

Trump: "You'd have riots" if I'm not given the nomination:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/16/trump-youd-have-riots-if-contested-convention-results-in-a-different-nominee/


Yes, I think there will be problems. Electoral College, why?

[AVGWarhawk]

Gotta call BS on that.
Bush sure wrecked the country good, but people ignoring Obama's achievements simply seems childish to me and simply politically motivated.
"Can't say good things bout Bo, he is a democrat afterall!" :shifty:
Not a fan of this guy, he is a politician after all and I despise 99% of them.

But it's not that he didn't do anything, or that he "failed".
Cut the Crap (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)


Doing a lot does not always mean it was good for the country. There is a list of what he has not accomplished. And do be sure, 2 decades as I stated would include Bush in the stagnant cesspool. :)

[AVGWarhawk]

On what makes a good leader: its not sitting in a pew occasionally, voting the party line, having a nice mani and pedi, never doing anything controversial.

Lemon. Wet. Good. :rotfl2:

You just described everyone in DC!

[em2nought]

You just described everyone in DC!

Which is why I don't understand the hate for Trump. :har: He probably does get the mani & pedi, but he pays for it himself.

Dude should make a statement rejecting any salary or future benefits if he is elected. :up: except for the secret service because I never knew democrats were so violent. hehe

[Catfish]

... Dude should make a statement rejecting any salary or future benefits if he is elected...


^ You will be astonished to hear that Obama did just that, amongst other means against lobbyism and corruption :03:

Oh noes we have a crisis, Obama destroys the nation! (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)

[Oberon]

Doing a lot does not always mean it was good for the country. There is a list of what he has not accomplished. And do be sure, 2 decades as I stated would include Bush in the stagnant cesspool. :)

It's a bit of a catch-22 situation though in that he probably could have done more things if he hadn't have been blocked at each turn by the GOP, but there would be a massive argument over what things he did were actually good for America. Likewise, Bush would have done more if he had a compliant Congressional system to put his plans into action, but then how much of a percentage of those plans would have been seen as good for the nation?

I think the biggest problem in the US lies not with the politicians but with the public, in that both sides of the political spectrum are so entrenched in their respective sides that they see compromise as a weakness, and that it's full victory or nothing. Anything which is Democratic must be opposed by Republicans and anything Republican must be opposed by Democrats, and so grindlock occurs and grindlock stays. For many, this is good, and this is how the US government should be in regards to passing laws that effect the people of the nation, but it does result in stagnancy.

[August]

^ You will be astonished to hear that Obama did just that, amongst other means against lobbyism and corruption :03:

Oh noes we have a crisis, Obama destroys the nation! (http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/)

Not true. First off the pledge was only for 5% of his $400G salary and as of 2014 he still hadn't returned anything.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/did-the-president-take-a-pay-cut-like-he-promised-white-house-wont-say/

But don't let that stop the cheerleading.

[AVGWarhawk]

It's a bit of a catch-22 situation though in that he probably could have done more things if he hadn't have been blocked at each turn by the GOP, but there would be a massive argument over what things he did were actually good for America. Likewise, Bush would have done more if he had a compliant Congressional system to put his plans into action, but then how much of a percentage of those plans would have been seen as good for the nation?

I think the biggest problem in the US lies not with the politicians but with the public, in that both sides of the political spectrum are so entrenched in their respective sides that they see compromise as a weakness, and that it's full victory or nothing. Anything which is Democratic must be opposed by Republicans and anything Republican must be opposed by Democrats, and so grindlock occurs and grindlock stays. For many, this is good, and this is how the US government should be in regards to passing laws that effect the people of the nation, but it does result in stagnancy.

There are many looking to take the middle road. Progressive Democrat. Socialist Democrat:doh: IMO, the forefathers were minimal government with maximum freedom. Libertarians. Government has gotten to big and was never to do what it is doing. That is the core issue IMO.

[AVGWarhawk]

Which is why I don't understand the hate for Trump. :har: He probably does get the mani & pedi, but he pays for it himself.

Dude should make a statement rejecting any salary or future benefits if he is elected. :up: except for the secret service because I never knew democrats were so violent. hehe


Perot said he would do it for free. Showed us pie charts. :)

[Oberon]

There are many looking to take the middle road. Progressive Democrat. Socialist Democrat:doh: IMO, the forefathers were minimal government with maximum freedom. Libertarians. Government has gotten to big and was never to do what it is doing. That is the core issue IMO.

True, but the forefathers lived in a very different world, for one thing the nation was smaller, the technology more primative, the threats much different and the people almost alien to those of today.
America was a very young nation in the era of the forefathers (whom I take to mean the founding fathers and the initial presidencies?) and perhaps it wasn't just an ideology that prompted minimal government with maximum freedom but also a practical problem in that the founding fathers of the US did not have the means to have anything other than a minimal government. The balance of power, as it were, was firmly in favour of the people since it was they who controlled the weaponry (the well regulated militias), the production, and the infrastructure. If Washington had decided in his first term to extend it without congressional approval, if he had decided to become a dictator, then he would have been swiftly overthrown by the public.
I can see why this is a system that is held dear in the hearts of the American people, that balance that helps keep dictators in check.
But that was a different era, and I'm not sure how much of the politics of the founding fathers can translate into the modern era, certainly I could understand that they would likely be frustrated and angered with the giant, slow, gridlocked mass that American politics has become, and likely disappointed with the fractuous manner in which political opponents behave both on screen and off.

Perhaps...perhaps the question that the American people might want to ask themselves collectively is what they perceive the role of government to be. For myself, I perceive government as a hand of protection for its people, to make sure that they have access to the things they require to live a healthy, resourceful and fulfilling life and that no foreign entity intervenes to prevent this. FDR put it in a good manner with his four freedoms. In my opinion it should be the role of the government to help preserve those freedoms.

[Oberon]

President Donald Trump as dangerous as 'the rising threat of jihadi terrorism destabilising the global economy':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35828747

[Catfish]

President Donald Trump as dangerous as 'the rising threat of jihadi terrorism destabilising the global economy':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35828747


From the article:
"... He is rated as riskier than Britain leaving the European Union ..."
:hmm2:


@Oberon: Good post #1492 .. and i wonder whether you chose the post number intentionally :up: :haha:

[Oberon]

@Oberon: Good post #1492 .. and i wonder whether you chose the post number intentionally :up: :haha:

Ha! I never even noticed, what are the odds of that?

Time to put on some music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94dY-QxjDiE

[STEED]

Millions of ordinary Americans support Donald Trump. Here's why

Tuesday 8 March 2016

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald-trump-why-americans-support

:hmmm:

[MaDef]

Perhaps...perhaps the question that the American people might want to ask themselves collectively is what they perceive the role of government to be. For myself, I perceive government as a hand of protection for its people, to make sure that they have access to the things they require to live a healthy, resourceful and fulfilling life and that no foreign entity intervenes to prevent this. FDR put it in a good manner with his four freedoms. In my opinion it should be the role of the government to help preserve those freedoms. That's easy:

Mediate disputes between the different state governments and regulate interstate commerce.
Negotiate treaty's and trade agreements with other nations.
provide a defense force to protect U.S. interests abroad.

While FDR's Speech in 41' is Laudable, it's too idealistic to implement without a single world wide government, and that ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

The appeal of Trump as president, is that He is direct rather than talk in circles, He's NOT a politician, (we have far to many of those in the government), and He's making those same politicians nervous.

In the last 24 years we've had 3 President's who have done a half ass'd job of running the U.S. it's time to shake things up a bit and see what happens. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Perhaps...perhaps the question that the American people might want to ask themselves collectively is what they perceive the role of government to be.

I think collectively the answer would be, "The government should take care of me." The US is an ever growing welfare state.

[Jimbuna]

I think collectively the answer would be, "The government should take care of me." The US is an ever growing welfare state.

Sounds like you at least learned one thing from us before we left/got kicked out :)

[GT182]

The Republicans are scared to death of Trump. Why? Because if he gets elected they could lose the only job they ever had where they got to screw the little guy and fill their pockets with his money. Same goes for the Democrats. They're just as scared too.

He's a businessman not a politician. That's what's needed to straighten out the mess we're in. If Hillary gets elected... that's 4 more years of Obamaism. We're in enough of a fix from him for the past 7 years. We don't need more of the same.

Trump has to learn to not fly off the handle every time he speaks into an microphone. That's his biggest downfall, and CNN and the like are having a feeding frenzy misquoting him because of it.