2016 US Presidential election thread [Archive] - Page 15

Skybird

11-01-16, 06:56 AM

Nope, no political party zombies here, never voted in my entire and refuse to affiliate myself with any politcal party.

Though retired from military service I still take my oath of enlistment very seriously.

Thats respectable since political parties do not get mentioned at all in that oath, as far as I recall it from films. Regarding the loyalty it demands towards the president, I just point out that the importance lies in the institution - not the name. One can be a president - and still be an #######. Blind exaggerated loyalty for the leader in person is what led the Wehrmacht and its Prussian code of honour and obedience into desaster. Their sense of duty shouold have been to stand up against Hitler.

In the end, the loyalty has to be where your money comes from - the people. And that is not so much nationalism, but patriotism .

----

These days, and especially with candidates like these two horror clowns now, one should know what one gets when supporting parties or politicians. Thus, any vote you cast during elections, can and will and should be held against you, since you are responsible for the one you helped to bring into office and whom you authorized to rule over your life to some significant degree, and to speak in your name.

Therefore, if you vote, you have no right to complain afterwards. You must be expected these days to know that you were voting for liars, cheaters and narcissistic psychopaths. Voters are banned from criticising, since they made possible what they criticise afterwards. Voters only have the right to beg the others for pardon.

Boycot parties, politicians and elections. Have courage for civil disobedience. One cannot change the direction of a river by swimming in it.

That is far more exhausting and discomfortable a way to show you are serious with your political responsiblity, than to party and finally mark a cross on an election ballot. Voting means to have a fete, a feeling-well event. Better visit the Oktoberfest if you want drunk slogans and loud noise.

The only way to change politics is to bypass them, boycott them, and isolate those trying to make their living by "doing politics". You do not cure a desease by intentionally infecting yourself, but by establishing an isolation protocol.

"They" are only powerful because you accept to obey them.

Thats what I mean when in the past I said political parties should be forbidden, and political work, no matter rank and office, should be limited to two terms at best, for the highest alpha animal down to the simple delegate. I did not always see it like this, I once was a fallen victim to the usual propaganda myself. 8 years, and then your poltical engagement has to end. A life long membership in a party? A life long career in being a delegate? Look at the messy world around, and then tell me that is a good idea.

Also, political work should not be paid for, net receivers should be banned from voting and candidating and deciding, and there should be no private lobbyists allowed to participate in political decision making. Party-funding like it is in Germany, where the general pulbic has to fiannce existing parties on basis of eleciton results, via tax funds, should be banned and criminalised. No parties should be allowed. Political candidates and delegates must finance themselves. Donations must be made public, and must be fully transparent.

And again, 2 terms of poltical engaement on whatever a level, in whatever a function, are the limit. Then politics must be over in that indvidual'S life, forever.

The way we allow politicis ro be run today, brings out the worst in man, voter and elected alike. Too often, the most unscrupulous poser makes the race. The most shameless false prophet wins the masses. The most incompetent dilletante gets flushed to ranks and office.

---

And as I often said before: what we call democracy today, has nothign in common with what ancient Greece, the claime dcradle of democracy, understood to be demcoracy. What we call democracy today, to them was a mix of at least two of the three forms of tyranny they knew of. And what we label as social responsibility and human rights, all too often reads like the catalogue of demands of the socialist International (=ochlocracy in ancient Greek).

August

11-01-16, 09:40 AM

Voters are banned from criticising, since they made possible what they criticise afterwards. Voters only have the right to beg the others for pardon.

That's just ridiculous. Last I heard we've never had an election where just one candidate took ALL the votes so at least some voters aren't to be blamed.

In this election we have 4 candidates so at very least those who vote for Gary Johnson (me!) and Jill Stein have every right to criticize all they want.

MaDef

11-01-16, 10:06 AM

Yeah, that should actually read, "if you DON'T vote, you can't criticize how the country is run."

Onkel Neal

11-01-16, 11:38 AM

Therefore, if you vote, you have no right to complain afterwards. You must be expected these days to know that you were voting for liars, cheaters and narcissistic psychopaths. Voters are banned from criticising, since they made possible what they criticise afterwards. Voters only have the right to beg the others for pardon.
.

Wrong. You always have the right to criticize.

Rockstar

11-01-16, 11:42 AM

Yeah, that should actually read, "if you DON'T vote, you can't criticize how the country is run."

Nice thing about the constitution I spent 24 long years of my life guarding. It says I can praise or criticize agree or disagree any blasted time I want.

Skybird

11-01-16, 11:42 AM

Wrong. You always have the right to criticize.
Veto. If you love to expose yourself in the public, you have no right to complain about other people exposing themselves in the public. If you help to give a burglar a free sentence and he leaves the court as a free man, although you know he breaks into appartments and steals things, you have no right to complain if he breaks into yours.

You got what you called for.

You cannot order a dish in a restaurant - and then refuse to pay for it.

Why is this so? Because not only have you a right to decide and to chose. There is also a right that you can be held accountable for your choice. And it should be that way, for it is only fair and just - even if most people try to ignore that, or dodge their share of responsibility. When you call for something, do not complain when you get it.

Jimbuna

11-01-16, 11:47 AM

Trump has just finished speaking at a rally in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.

He's started his remarks by thanking his running mate, Mike Pence, who is making a rare joint campaign appearance with him as they travel from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin.

Live feed here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-us-2016-37825671

Onkel Neal

11-01-16, 02:23 PM

You cannot order a dish in a restaurant - and then refuse to pay for it.

Sure I can. I've done it.

Platapus

11-01-16, 03:04 PM

After again been reading a post where someone was angry about the Voting machine had changed this person vote

I started to wonder-do these voting machine only change it from Trump to Clinton or does it also change to voting the other way around ?

Markus

The touch machines that are not calibrated will sometimes select the next option either above or below where the voter's finger is touching. It is the same problem that often happens with ATMs and automated gas pumps.

Still no excuse for calibration not to be checked. But that's why before confirming the ballot, it is important for the voter to check the summary display before hitting the confirmation button.

Just one more reason I am glad we dumped the touch screen machines. Never liked them.

Bilge_Rat

11-01-16, 04:08 PM

so.....I'm sure everyone has seen the latest conspiracy theory, that the Trump campaign has been secretly communicating with the Russian Alfa Bank, apparently a secret back channel between Putin and his "mole" Donald Trump.

Some actual real journalists have looked into it and found IT'S TRUE.

Trump's servers are sending info to Alfa Bank...

here it is.....

https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/11/Screen-Shot-2016-11-01-at-3.26.37-PM-1000x1259.png

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/01/heres-the-problem-with-the-story-connecting-russia-to-donald-trumps-email-server/

when will this election be over...:/\\!!

em2nought

11-01-16, 06:48 PM

Buddahaid

11-01-16, 07:51 PM

I might but I'll choke on it. I just can't bring myself to vote for such a horses a$$ as Trump. All hat and no cattle.

August

11-01-16, 08:12 PM

You can always vote for the Pot Head like i'm doing.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rl_7DzDV95Y/V3wwZHueyWI/AAAAAAAADcs/qECQi6yK1yw0YHcKRfpWZWDPlSMLff5cgCLcB/s1600/a22.jpg

Oberon

11-01-16, 08:42 PM

I'm with August on this one, if you can't stand to vote for Trump or Hillary, rather than vote against either one, vote for a third party, Johnson, Stein, or even McMullin if you're able to, I hear that he's an up and coming figure...could be going places. The two party system could do with being broken up a bit.

AVGWarhawk

11-02-16, 08:56 AM

You can always vote for the Pot Head like i'm doing.

The exact reason I would not vote for this guy. Spend my time advising my kids not to do drugs but vote for a person who grows it. :hmmm:

AVGWarhawk

11-02-16, 09:05 AM

I voted last night. Long line. Hour wait. Paper ballot that once completed was fed into a machine. For all I know it ended up in a shredder. I was given a, "I Voted" sticker. Shuffled out of the door.

Concerning the no ID required. I don't like it at all. Anyone can state my name and address to the voting official. I stated my name and address. A paper was spit out of the computer and I was to confirm my information as correct and told to sign. Then off to the ballots. It is very much possible for someone to take your vote. Now, the data base I assume(and hope) is taken from REGISTERED voters. If the data base is simply from a name associated with an address then non-citizens can vote.

I have not used a paper ballot in some time. Felt like the SAT where one fills in the dot with a #2 pencil. However, this ballot a pen used so it can not be erased.

August

11-02-16, 10:33 AM

The exact reason I would not vote for this guy. Spend my time advising my kids not to do drugs but vote for a person who grows it. :hmmm:

So I'm guessing you'd never vote for a guy who drank alcohol or smoked tobacco either right? I mean of the three the illegal (for now) one is the least harmful.

AVGWarhawk

11-02-16, 12:01 PM

So I'm guessing you'd never vote for a guy who drank alcohol or smoked tobacco either right? I mean of the three the illegal (for now) one is the least harmful.

Alcohol and tobacco are not illegal. All three are harmful in their own way. "I tried it but did not inhale." Bill Clinton.

Skybird

11-02-16, 01:43 PM

It seems that the pendulum indeed swings in Trumps favour again? If you consider the way this campaign has gone and what things and stories and factors got focussed on and projected influence, it all is indeed the best argument against holding general elections.

We have a comparable debate over here in Germany currently, on the usefulness of public referendums and whether they indeed get decided by views on and opinions about the issue the individual referendum is about.

Why not making Kermit the next POTUS? He is hilarious, but so are Clinton and Trump, but different to them, he is not intentionally malicious and foul-playing. A truly green president, an American precedence for the world. Who knows, maybe other countries will follow. Blue Ernie in Brussels. Red Hellboy in Moscow. Yellow Sponge Bob in Bejing. Green Kermit in Washington. Pink Panther in New York at the UN.

Much less absurd than the psychotic gang running the world right now.

Catfish

11-02-16, 02:23 PM

^ @Skybird
Sometimes i think you read my mind :hmmm: :haha:

But then, since a lot of people are better educated and capable than our own political and other leaders.. why do we let them?! :o

Oberon

11-02-16, 02:47 PM

Yes, those horror clown masks and related incidents make for some really scary halloween this year. Stephen King is said to write a sequel to his bestselling novel about Pennywise, working title is "Them".

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwR80N1WgAAmMGc.jpg

It seems that the pendulum indeed swings in Trumps favour again? If you consider the way this campaign has gone and what things and stories and factors got focussed on and projected influence, it all is indeed the best argument against holding general elections.

We have a comparable debate over here in Germany currently, on the usefulness of public referendums and whether they indeed get decided by views on and opinions about the issue the individual referendum is about.

Why not making Kermit the next POTUS? He is hilarious, but so are Clinton and Trump, but different to them, he is not intentionally malicious and foul-playing. A truly green president, an American precedence for the world. Who knows, maybe other countries will follow. Blue Ernie in Brussels. Red Hellboy in Moscow. Yellow Sponge Bob in Bejing. Green Kermit in Washington. Pink Panther in New York at the UN.

Much less absurd than the psychotic gang running the world right now.

Danger Mouse for PM!

But I must admit, I always find myself coming back to a quote by Adlai Stevenson:

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-in-america-anybody-can-be-president-that-s-one-of-the-risks-you-take-adlai-e-stevenson-37-50-81.jpg

Catfish

11-02-16, 03:10 PM

^ Stephen King – Hah! :up:

But this is wrong:

[...]
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-in-america-anybody-can-be-president-that-s-one-of-the-risks-you-take-adlai-e-stevenson-37-50-81.jpg

You can only become a president if being a relative to a former president, or if you have money. BIG money. The most intelligent Harvard absolvent, or the most intelligent man with or without official education, will never become president in the US, without money.
It is not about intelligence, good intentions or sheer capability.

Oberon

11-02-16, 03:17 PM

^ Stephen King – Hah! :up:

But this is wrong:

You can only become a president if being a relative to a former president, or if you have money. BIG money. The most intelligent Harvard absolvent, or the most intelligent man with or without official education, will never become president in the US, without money.
It is not about intelligence, good intentions or sheer capability.

Fair point...and to be honest, it's the same in every single government and political system really, isn't it? And has been through-out history. :hmmm:

Buddahaid

11-02-16, 03:20 PM

Alcohol and tobacco are not illegal. All three are harmful in their own way. "I tried it but did not inhale." Bill Clinton.

No, but out my way people will complain about the cigarette smoke and ignore the pot.

Catfish

11-02-16, 03:23 PM

Fair point...and to be honest, it's the same in every single government and political system really, isn't it? And has been through-out history. :hmmm:

:haha: touché..

But it is possible in Germany.. here also idiots without money can become anything. The question is whether this is better. :hmmm:

AVGWarhawk

11-02-16, 03:34 PM

No, but out my way people will complain about the cigarette smoke and ignore the pot.

Where I live the complaints have been heard concerning cigarette smoke. NO smoking in bars and eating establishments. No smoking within 50 feet of most stores. I believe they are working on a law for no smoking in your car that has a minor being transported in it.

The smoke from pot will receive the same complaints and have the same laws imposed as cigarettes. I will not ignore the smoke from anyones cigarette or jumbo joint.

Rockin Robbins

11-02-16, 03:59 PM

It's amazing to me that in a contest between someone who commits criminal acts endangering national security and accepting bribes against someone with a potty mouth people can't see that the choice is not difficult. It's a matter of degree and the difference is vast. Criminal acts vs bad language.

I'll take the bad language, hold my nose and vote for Trump.

STEED

11-02-16, 04:19 PM

Catfish

11-02-16, 04:41 PM

[...] I'll take the bad language, hold my nose and vote for Trump.

"In your face!"
That's the Brexit spirit :O:

eddie

11-02-16, 05:05 PM

Oberon

11-02-16, 05:32 PM

:haha: touché..

But it is possible in Germany.. here also idiots without money can become anything. The question is whether this is better. :hmmm:

Finance is certainly no judge of character. That being said, I think that even in Germany there is a need for a solid financial backing to any political campaign? Even Grassroots ones need their backers.
Take UKIP (:dead:) for example, they have basically been kept going by the charity of Arron Banks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arron_Banks), and since the success of Brexit, UKIP has basically collapsed in on itself, Banks is reported to be not so willing to put money towards it, instead thinking of creating a right-wing political pressure group in the shape of the left wing 'Momentum'. If this happens UKIP will likely cease to exist, since it is already in major financial difficulties.
It's hard to think of any political party which has attained success in the last few decades which has not had significant financial support.

Rockstar

11-02-16, 06:02 PM

Nice to know the Militias are gearing up for war as we get closer to election day!!:har:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-militia-girds-for-trouble-as-presidential-election-nears/ar-AAjJlOv?li=BBnbfcL

What a bunch of r-tards if they want to play army and are that hard up for a war send their sorry arses to Mosul.

Platapus

11-02-16, 06:28 PM

What a bunch of r-tards if they want to play army and are that hard up for a war send their sorry arses to Mosul.

Fortunately, unless they can shoot someone in the back or just gang up on someone, these wannabe won't do much but whine and drink beer.

Buddahaid

11-02-16, 06:54 PM

Show your support by sending arms.
https://sep.yimg.com/ay/airgundepot/daisy-airguns-famous-pink-red-ryder-1938-bb-gun-4.gif

Torplexed

11-02-16, 07:13 PM

So, are we there yet? :-?

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Electoral-Map.jpg

August

11-02-16, 07:51 PM

Alcohol and tobacco are not illegal. All three are harmful in their own way. "I tried it but did not inhale." Bill Clinton.

Of course of the three MJ is the least harmful but it's the only one that remains illegal. It's that legal inconsistency which is finally being addressed so a candidate that has smoked it in the past is not a problem for me.

Speaking of not inhaling, what a load of bovine feces that was. How like a Clinton to try weasel his way out of responsibility for his actions and it's obvious that his wife is just like him.

I'm telling you that we put these two back in the oval office at our peril because they'll steal more than the White House furniture this time.

em2nought

11-02-16, 09:19 PM

Nice to know the Militias are gearing up for war as we get closer to election day!!:har:

I had considered buying a case of SKS's and a pallet of 7.62x39 so I could be a Militia Colonel someday. :D

Oberon

11-03-16, 07:07 AM

I recall in Back to the Future II that the Cubs won the world series and a casino owner with bad hair was ruining peoples lives.

Guess they were only a year out...

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/bttf/images/f/fb/1631280-doc_brown_full.jpg

Buddahaid

11-03-16, 08:35 AM

[QUOTE=Oberon;2444215]I recall in Back to the Future II that the Cubs won the world series and a casino owner with bad hair was ruining peoples lives.

Guess they were only a year out...

Could still be true next year.

Mr Quatro

11-03-16, 12:01 PM

I feel leary about the source of this information, Fox news and un-named sources close to the FBI, but what if it was true and these so called intruders to her server have that data?

Wouldn't they want to expose Hillary with the data before the election? If they didn't like her that is?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html

Authorities now believe there is about a 99 percent chance that up to five foreign intelligence agencies may have accessed and taken emails from Hillary Clinton’s private server, two separate sources with intimate knowledge of the FBI investigations told Fox News.

The revelation led House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Michael McCaul to describe Clinton’s handling of her email system during her tenure as secretary of state as “treason.”

“She exposed [information] to our enemies,” McCaul said on “Fox & Friends” Thursday morning. “Our adversaries have this very sensitive information. … In my opinion, quite frankly, it’s treason.”

McCaul, R-Texas, said that FBI Director James Comey told him previously that foreign adversaries likely had gotten into her server. When Comey publicly discussed the Clinton email case back in July, he also said that while there was no evidence hostile actors breached the server, it was “possible” they had gained access.

Oberon

11-03-16, 12:11 PM

Sounds like just about everyone has access to American data these days...the CIA really has fallen since 9/11. :dead:

Bilge_Rat

11-03-16, 02:39 PM

I feel leary about the source of this information, Fox news and un-named sources close to the FBI, but what if it was true and these so called intruders to her server have that data?

Wouldn't they want to expose Hillary with the data before the election? If they didn't like her that is?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html

well the problem with "un-named" sources is you have no idea if the story is true or was planted by one of the campaigns. Look at this story on Trump:

Mother Jones has reviewed that report and other memos this former spy wrote. The first memo, based on the former intelligence officer's conversations with Russian sources, noted, "Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance." It maintained that Trump "and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals." It claimed that Russian intelligence had "compromised" Trump during his visits to Moscow and could "blackmail him."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump

Less than one week from the election, I don't trust any story that relies only on "un-named" sources.

Rockstar

11-03-16, 02:43 PM

Sounds like just about everyone has access to American data these days...the CIA really has fallen since 9/11. :dead:

One only has read the arguements in this thread and becomes apparent we tell you only what we want you to know or argue about.

Platapus

11-03-16, 02:44 PM

99%? Not 98%, but 99% I guess that is to make it more believable. How exactly did they come up with that number unless it involved toilet paper.

"97.76 of the percentages used on the Internet Tubes are made up and have false precision. " - George Washington

mapuc

11-03-16, 02:56 PM

AVGWarhawk

11-03-16, 03:45 PM

I haven't read every post since the last hour yesterday, so if someone already has mentioned this then delete my comment.

Earlier today I read in a Swedish news paper that Trump have been accused of having done something terrible to an underage in 1994.

I'm sure there's absolutely nothing to find there.

I also ask myself why these accusation keep on coming
and
When will they stop.

It's ok a person don't like Trump or hope nobody put their vote on him-But have such a hate to this candidate is not healthy.

Could be that these woman want some 15 minutes of fame.
15 minutes of fame that will destroy or could destroy another mans life.

Markus

It it a typical tactic that has caused issues for many. Unsubstantiated claims. It is enough for all to assume guilt before any evidence is produced. Herman Kaine is a good example. He was burned at the stake. Justice Clarence Thomas had his troubles when vetted for SCOTUS and just recently another stepped forward claiming groping after Thomas gave a simple interview about his experience as a SCOTUS. Concerning trump, so many have stepped forward it appears like crying wolf. No one is listening anymore. In fact, two more came forward the day Hillary was thrown under the bus by the FBI last Friday. The story of these two women were a blip on the map.

Bilge_Rat

11-03-16, 03:46 PM

Earlier today I read in a Swedish news paper that Trump have been accused of having done something terrible to an underage in 1994.

That one is a bit different from the other cases, it is part of the Jeffrey Epstein sex scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein

Epstein made a lot of money on Wall Street, he partied a lot. In many of his parties, there were prostitutes, some were under age. He pled guilty to sex with underage girls and spent a year in jail.

He had partied with a lot of people, many of which could be similarly charged. One was Donald Trump, a friend of Epstein who went on a couple of trips with him. The woman behind the lawsuit is supposedly one of the prostitutes who would have been a minor back in 1994 when Trump supposedly had sex with her.

It could be a big scandal.

The reason why Democrats are not really hyping it up is because there was another person who went on even more trips with Epstein than Trump. That person's name is Bill Clinton, one ex-President.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/30/the-billionaire-pedophile-who-could-bring-down-donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton.html

..now what are the chances that William Jefferson Clinton would not have slept with some of those under age prostitutes during the two dozen or so trips he took with Epstein.

Platapus

11-03-16, 03:52 PM

Onkel Neal

11-03-16, 04:00 PM

The problem with these delayed sexual assault charges is that there is usually no evidence. Then it becomes a he said she said case.

What is really bad about this specific case, is that the accusation can be freely made just prior to the election, but Trump has no opportunity to defend himself. And that, frankly is unfair.

Agreed, and I have to ask: where were all these poor souls in the last 10 years? If a billionaire messed with me, I would go full metal lawyer on him while the case was fresh.

mapuc

11-03-16, 04:15 PM

@ Bilge_Rat

If it had been in an another time and if it had been an another person I would have written-the Police shall take this accusation serious.

Why I didn't write that is because it was Trump and more than the half of the planet seems to hate him.

Of course the police shall start an investigation.

Markus

Mr Quatro

11-03-16, 04:58 PM

Epstein made a lot of money on Wall Street, he partied a lot. In many of his parties, there were prostitutes, some were under age. He pled guilty to sex with underage girls and spent a year in jail.

He had partied with a lot of people, many of which could be similarly charged.

It could be a big scandal.

The reason why Democrats are not really hyping it up is because there was another person who went on even more trips with Epstein than Trump.

That person's name is Bill Clinton, one ex-President.

..now what are the chances that William Jefferson Clinton would not have slept with some of those under age prostitutes during the two dozen or so trips he took with Epstein.

I edited out the url's even though they are good, but the real meat of what you posted could get us all in big trouble. Are we the only poeple that see this relationship, with Bill Clinton's track record, was not for a free airplane ride in what was called a, "Pussy wagon"?

Yet no one cares or if they did care, anyone that brings it up on media news is not going to have a job for much longer. Something that sounds like hypocrite comes to mind with the Cliton camp running commercials how bad Trump is and hiding big bad Bill's sex life.

I've already been led to believe that The DNC will win next Tuesday, but that doesn't mean that Hillary will take the oath January 20th 2017.

Mark this date down ... January 3rd, 2017 the new US Congress comes back into session with who knows how many new lawmakers in each party to settle any disputes since they left for winter vacation. If the numbers are pro democrat by then, we can expect to see special sessions of Congress while the Republicans are in charge.

Hold on to your hats folks ... a roller coaster ride is going to be the end of this election.
Just like last nights Wold Series game going into extra innings with a surprise ending. :yep:

Buddahaid

11-03-16, 06:03 PM

Bill Clinton is not running so how does that apply?

Oberon

11-03-16, 07:01 PM

Bill Clinton is not running so how does that apply?

Because emails? :hmmm:

Mr Quatro

11-03-16, 07:47 PM

Bill Clinton is not running so how does that apply?

but Bill is running to be the 'first dude' :yep:

Buddahaid

11-03-16, 09:21 PM

That's like saying Trump isn't eligible because his wife wasn't born in the US.

JU_88

11-04-16, 05:33 AM

I'm gonna Wager on a surprise trump victory, after 8 years of any presidency its unusual for the 'change' candidate to lose.

Can't say I like Trump much but I do think he has been unfairly treated - as was Bernie Sanders, to compare pasts, the Clinton's scare me more than Trump .
if he wins I will at least thoroughly enjoy seeing all the authoritarian PC progressives throwing all their toys out the pram and demanding another election or something :) Trump is 'basicaly Hitler?' brought to you by the same people who either support or are complacent of racial and gender segregation on university campuses in the form of 'safe spaces'.

I used to be abit of a 'progressive' myself but since they won the culture war and got a firm grip on the establishment, media and academia - their behavior has been increasingly shocking, All I see now is cry bullies handing out labels of racism, bigotry and misogyny towards basically anyone who refuses to tow the line.
They call for bans on everything, seek to police speech and language, no platform any descent (very Maoist). Abandoning rational argument in favor of emotional argument, i could go on. (Notice how much they have become like the old religious right?) And nobody on the Left side of the political spectrum is reigning them in.
So politically and culturally I find it hard to see them as a force for any real good.

so i guess i'm a disenfranchised liberal. But yeah it is about time the progressives got taken down a peg or three.. and as for the alt right, rise of the far right? Thats easy imo, beat the progressive /radical left back to the fringes where they belong and I'd bet that their right wing counterparts will follow them back there - since the two are basically what props up each others relevance.
Liberals and moderates have become very effective at calling out the BS of the far right, now we need to start doing the same to the far left, and then maybe we can return to some sort of sanity.

Onkel Neal

11-04-16, 06:37 AM

Oberon

11-04-16, 07:49 AM

I'm just....Imma...I'm....

Just

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1313881651/grand-old-academy-a-satirical-dating-sim

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 08:26 AM

Bill Clinton is not running so how does that apply?

It applies because the DNC can turn a blind eye to Bill. All gasp at something Trump said on a bus. How could he say those things? What a pig. Not worthy of a presidency. But it is ok Bill is being creative with cigars in the oval office AND on the campaign trail for his wife. Bill gets a pass....AGAIN...Trump needs to be tared, feather, dunked in the pond and burned at the stake. Hypocrisy is one hell of a word. The DNC paint themselves as upstanding citizens of moral character. It appears via Wiki and actions of those within the DNC that it is not the case. Far form it. ALL of it applies.

Mr Quatro

11-04-16, 08:34 AM

Maybe I should post this over in the NFL football thread :D

I think this election is like a football game ... with two goal post.

One goal post is November 8th, 2016 ... the other goal post is January 20th, 2017

in the middle is a playing field of huge proportions with the two well known players of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump along with lesser known players, but the most important players are the field judges and the head referee and the lines men that move the chains.

The Supreme Court and the US Congress will decide the winner, but not unitll the fat lady sings with her excuses of this all being one big mistake.

I left out the coach for each team, but you know who they are by now, right?

The play by play people are CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC ...

Whatever is going to happen has never happened before ... you will be shocked, because it is a battle for what we think. It always has been a battle, but it is usually only in hindsight that we can see it.

May the best person win ... notice I said the best person and I do not think it is in the best interest of this country for it to be Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. :arrgh!:

Catfish

11-04-16, 08:48 AM

@AVG Warhawk: You are, of course, right.

From the eyes of a european outsider:

One candidate is a corrupt politician you (and we) are all used to (even if you can't stand it anymore), and the other is a lunatic.
Who do you prefer to be at the helm, with the red button in reach?

Whoever wins, my hope is in the advisors, and congress..

A bit (but only a bit) OT:

Change the whole system, you (and we) must. Democracy is not democracy, and what we took for it, is dead. The internet and international information systems (even if biased and corrupt themselves) have changed the "representative" democracy.
Now everyone is present, can open his mouth and say anything, have 10,000s of followers on facebook, and still be a lunatic.

People who would have never made their way or opinion heard in the traditional old school press, are now present all over the world. And they are all "experts" or think of themselves as such.
A real expert or scentist or whatever is just not heard anymore because it is all so "loud" now. I know that sounds elitist, but i'll give an example:

If a mother complains that her son is being ill treated at school, and you want to change this common complaint from a hundred mothers, who do you ask for a solution?
The mother?
She will take care that her own son gets ahead, at the expense of the others.
What you really have to do is change some rules and a bit of the school system, and for that you need people who know their stuff and how to do that.

So you don't go to those who cry loudest, but to those who know how stuff gets done.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 08:52 AM

Man, except for the part about being a disenfranchised liberal, I couldn't have said it better myself. The political and cultural climate we live in today is nuts. Is Trump a vulgar, self-serving huckster? Sure, that's obvious. Is he a racist? Not really, but that's the shut-down tag from the left. Disagree with someone, want to end the discussion? Call them a racist. One thing I will find interesting if Trump wins is watching the phony "I care about people" liberals lose their minds. :D

And if Clinton wins, the silver lining is maybe Trump will fade into obscurity.

I agree on the racist card. Trump will not fade. Trump will create a channel similar to Fox and be a thorn in Hillary's side for years to come. This election has really cracked open Pandora's Box of corruption in DC. Wikileaks has many more emails to come. Indictments are forthcoming. Pay to play scheme will be front and center. It has only just gotten interesting. The fun is just beginning.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 08:59 AM

JU_88

11-04-16, 09:19 AM

One candidate is a corrupt politician you (and we) are all used to (even if you can't stand it anymore), and the other is a lunatic.
Who do you prefer to be at the helm, with the red button in reach?
.

As another European outsider I beg to differ slightly,
Trump is a Lunatic,
Hilary is a corrupt Lunatic.

The only difference is that Trump is very open about his lunacy, While Clinton Hides hers behind a false public image. I urge you to read up on the Clintons a bit, There is some pretty terrifying skeletons in their closet - way worse than juvenile wannabe alpha moron talk of 'genital grabbing'.
Trump has said bad stuff - while Hilary has actually done bad stuff.

Im all for a female U.S president, but not this two faced psychotic witch, please!

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 09:22 AM

As another European outsider I beg to differ slightly,
Trump is a Lunatic,
Hilary is a corrupt Lunatic.

The only difference is that Trump is very open about his lunacy, While Clinton Hides hers behind a false public image.

Fair assessment! :up:

ReallyDedPoet

11-04-16, 09:39 AM

Trump has said bad stuff - while Hilary has actually done bad stuff.

Trump has done plenty of bad stuff to go along with what he has said. The list is long, so he is no different than Clinton in that regard.

JU_88

11-04-16, 09:42 AM

Just look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlmAQXCYSXk

Buddahaid

11-04-16, 09:43 AM

I followed Neal. I've voted.

I perfectly understand the gripe about Bill Clinton and what he did/said, but he is still not the candidate while Trump is and it comes across as sour grapes to me.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 09:58 AM

I followed Neal. I've voted.

I perfectly understand the gripe about Bill Clinton and what he did/said, but he is still not the candidate while Trump is and it comes across as sour grapes to me.

I fear you still do see the big picture. The Hillary(DNC) campaign paints a picture of wonderful loving people who care deeply about other people no matter the race, color or religious affiliation. It is not true. The Wikileaks paint a much clearer picture of the true nature. One Podesta email disparaging Catholics as odd balls and Latinos as "needy". They have the audacity to finger Trump as some pervert yet we have Bill and Weiner who have actually done these things(Trump only talked about it but no evidence any of it transpired) and shame him. Bill gets a pass and another large check in the pay to play scheme. Hillary has lied under oath to FBI so many times it has become second nature. The DNC, from recent findings from several sources, paints the DNC as very cold, calculating and devious. It is very disingenuous.

August

11-04-16, 09:59 AM

Trump has done plenty of bad stuff to go along with what he has said. The list is long, so he is no different than Clinton in that regard.

Really, can you tell us where Trump mishandled classified documents? An actual felony that anyone else would have been prosecuted for. To me that is far far worse and can't be compared to some potty mouth comments said in private years ago.

Onkel Neal

11-04-16, 10:06 AM

Im all for a female U.S president, but not this two faced psychotic witch, please!

Same here, do we want the history books to list Hillary Clinton as the First women president of the United States of America?

I truly think that honor should go to someone who deserves it, like Melinda Gates or Janet Yellin.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 10:08 AM

Trump has done plenty of bad stuff to go along with what he has said. The list is long, so he is no different than Clinton in that regard.

Need to say something here, look at the Trump campaign....what ammo does Hillary's campaign have against Trump? They have a few women step forward stating they where groped. None confirmed. All have disappeared into obscurity. In fact, so many women have stepped forward one would think Trump was groped every women breathing. I finally stopped listening to it when a woman, porn star, claimed Trump groped and planted a unwanted kiss plus offered $10k if she would come to his room. Crazy as it sounds...it is not any more crazy than Bill and Weiner and countless others in the same position that have done these things. Keep in mind though, nothing has stuck concerning these allegations concerning Trump. Hillary is so out of gas she has reverted back to attack on Trump with the same woman accusing him of calling her a pig. Concerning Trumps taxes....he has used the tax law to his advantage just like anyone else. If he was shirking the IRS his butt would be in a sling. We see it is not. None story...

Trump on the other hand has a arsenal of damning evidence that Hillary and the DNC are as corrupt as corrupt gets. The ammo just keeps on coming everyday via Wikileak and now the FBI. And it ain't over for Hillary by a long shot.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 10:17 AM

Same here, do we want the history books to list Hillary Clinton as the First women president of the United States of America?

I truly think that honor should go to someone who deserves it, like Melinda Gates or Janet Yellin.

This is another point of contention. BO attempting to make this a sexist issue. I'm all for a woman president!!!! Hillary is simply just not it. The trail of destruction is to immense to overlook. Concerning the history books and Clinton, imagine if you would a small excerpt stating Hillary became the first woman president. Then imaging if you would the next 16 chapters on how she got there through corrupt practices, pay to play, lies to the FBI, deleting emails and bleach servers, disparaging emails from her campaign manager and more. It appears to me to warrant an entire college semester with 3 credits attached as there is enough there to cover an entire semester of study. Hillary History Class 101.

Mr Quatro

11-04-16, 10:38 AM

This is another point of contention. BO attempting to make this a sexist issue. I'm all for a woman president!!!! Hillary is simply just not it.

I use to be anti-Hillary just because she was a woman, but I have now changed my mind and agree with your statement ... "Hillary is simply just not it"

I wish the other choice was another woman. :yep:

She has money and a following and a track record ... I've said it before, "Love does not see the blemishes"

Oberon

11-04-16, 10:42 AM

You've got to vote against the political elite by voting in an old white rich guy, that'll show 'em! :up:

JU_88

11-04-16, 11:30 AM

You've got to vote against the political elite by voting in an old white rich guy, that'll show 'em! :up:

Well done, you have highlighted in one sentence exactly why I want NOTHING more to do with the left as it currently stands. the assumption that most people are racist and sexist if they don't tow the PC line (in this case support the poor oppressed Hilary Clinton.... because.... well Vagina, duh! )

why is it a crime, to be old rich male and white?

Can you or any one validate it, besides the usual PC nonsense that has become so trendy now? All that identity politics about oppression and privilege based on race & gender etc. When in fact it is based on wealth on class - but of course most Marxist / social justice warriors are quite wealthy, white and middle class themselves so of course that like to play that down. Most convenient.

Nobody but nobody should have to apologies for their race or gender or age, to imply they should, is bigotry 101. And yes even when its aimed at those evil old white men the guardian and the Huffington post tell us to loathe so much.

We don't need diversity, we don't need quotas, we REALLY need to evolve past making judgments by race and gender etc, and instead judge on content of character.
Its crazy, but horse shoe effect is true, if you go as far away from a Right wing bigot as possible, you simply become a left wing bigot. I didn't think it was possible 10 years ago, but here we are!

Skybird

11-04-16, 11:43 AM

or Janet Yellin.
:o

:o :o

:o :o :o

:timeout:

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 11:45 AM

why is it a crime, to be old rich male and white?

Because everything is their fault as the narrative is driven for all to believe.

Oberon

11-04-16, 11:54 AM

Well done, you have highlighted in one sentence exactly why I want NOTHING more to do with the left as it currently stands. the assumption that most people are racist and sexist if they don't tow the PC line (in this case support the poor oppressed Hilary Clinton.... because.... well Vagina, duh! )

why is it a crime, to be old rich male and white?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/cc/48/e3/cc48e34cd7711b54a3d6a6c68c6f03f4.gif

The point is not the object, but the fact that you're voting for the status quo whilst proclaiming that you're voting against the status quo.

Besides, of course I'm bloody PC, I'm the Kommandant of the PC Police as designated by the owner of this forum! :O:

JU_88

11-04-16, 11:58 AM

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/cc/48/e3/cc48e34cd7711b54a3d6a6c68c6f03f4.gif

The point is not the object, but the fact that you're voting for the status quo whilst proclaiming that you're voting against the status quo.

Besides, of course I'm bloody PC, I'm the Kommandant of the PC Police as designated by the owner of this forum! :O:

Cool, but i'd make a very careful assessment of just what exactly -is the status quo at the moment. Because the Staus quo is not the same as it was say - 30 years ago, and from what i can tell the status quo is clearly in favour of Hillary. So i guess the patriarchy is doing a pretty bad job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZPnCMVwQFk

Oberon

11-04-16, 12:23 PM

Cool, but i'd make a very careful assessment of just what exactly -is the status quo at the moment. Because the Staus quo is not the same as it was say - 30 years ago. And for the record I never had an issue with political correctness when it was merely encouraged out of courtesy, but when it started to become enforced and weaponised.... then it transpires, i do have problem with it.

If Trump was some one from a more traditional working class or even middle income background, I could understand, I could understand wanting to put someone who has a first hand experience of average America into a position of political power (although I don't expect that they would survive such a position with their morals intact) but Trump has been in a position of relative financial strength since his early years. When things went wrong he got a bailout from his father, or sought to cook the system to hide his taxes or rip people off, and then he blames the system for it. The same system that he has gotten rich off.
In short, I make no attempt to say that Hilary is some angel of a candidate, she's probably one of the most hated people in America, and the fact that this race is so close says a lot about both candidates.
However, Trumps language to me is as dangerous as any breach in security, it's the kind of language that opens the gates to paths that lead to very dangerous places. Take a look at the upswing of racially motivated crimes post-Brexit as people are encouraged by the language used by Farage and some members of the Leave campaign and they come out and attack anyone who looks a bit foreign.
Honestly, I am deeply concerned about where we, as a society, are going.

In regards to PC, I fully agree with you, there is a lot of stupidity about it out there, and some people are abusing the concept, however that does not mean that the concept itself should be abandoned, but that the individuals that are abusing it should be discouraged from doing so. It's just as annoying to people in the left who get their cause undermined by these people as it is by those in the right who react to it.

Takeda Shingen

11-04-16, 12:42 PM

You've got to vote against the political elite by voting in an old white rich guy, that'll show 'em! :up:

http://i.imgur.com/shq98xC.jpg

Not the political elite. Even they don't own gold thrones.

Oberon

11-04-16, 12:45 PM

Not the political elite. Even they don't own gold thrones.

http://www.the-family-archives.com/random/pictures/fairpoint.gif

Oberon

11-04-16, 12:48 PM

Actually...come to think of it...didn't Saddam have a golden toilet? :hmmm:

Takeda Shingen

11-04-16, 12:50 PM

Actually...come to think of it...didn't Saddam have a golden toilet? :hmmm:

And it was a great toilet. A great, tremendous, tremendous toilet. Just immense. Such a great toilet. Just tremendous.

EDIT: I should add that The Donald's choice in seating aesthetics is probably forced. The gold chair is probably the only thing that will match his gold floor and gold wall.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 12:57 PM

http://i.imgur.com/shq98xC.jpg

Not the political elite. Even they don't own gold thrones.

The gold thrown is a prop. Trump would not have that ugly piece of furniture in his home. :har:

Takeda Shingen

11-04-16, 12:59 PM

The gold thrown is a prop. Trump would not have that ugly piece of furniture in his home. :har:

Au contraire! I present the work "Breakfast with the Trumps".

http://www.snopes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/trumptable.jpg

It would seem he has at least ten of them.

JU_88

11-04-16, 01:09 PM

If Trump was some one from a more traditional working class or even middle income background, I could understand, I could understand wanting to put someone who has a first hand experience of average America into a position of political power (although I don't expect that they would survive such a position with their morals intact) but Trump has been in a position of relative financial strength since his early years. When things went wrong he got a bailout from his father, or sought to cook the system to hide his taxes or rip people off, and then he blames the system for it. The same system that he has gotten rich off.
In short, I make no attempt to say that Hilary is some angel of a candidate, she's probably one of the most hated people in America, and the fact that this race is so close says a lot about both candidates.
However, Trumps language to me is as dangerous as any breach in security, it's the kind of language that opens the gates to paths that lead to very dangerous places. Take a look at the upswing of racially motivated crimes post-Brexit as people are encouraged by the language used by Farage and some members of the Leave campaign and they come out and attack anyone who looks a bit foreign.
Honestly, I am deeply concerned about where we, as a society, are going.

In regards to PC, I fully agree with you, there is a lot of stupidity about it out there, and some people are abusing the concept, however that does not mean that the concept itself should be abandoned, but that the individuals that are abusing it should be discouraged from doing so. It's just as annoying to people in the left who get their cause undermined by these people as it is by those in the right who react to it.

yes i agree with much of what you are saying, the post Brexit attacks, i believe they would have happened regardless of the out come, I didn't vote in the referendum, because that is just how disgusted I was with both campaigns ignorance and snobbery. and i feel indifferent about the result. of course pointing the finger at minorities is wrong -most of them like everyone in the world are just trying to get along, but mass immigration was also not very clever, while it was done on the guise of cultural enrichment, the real reason was simply to get a mixture of cheap labour and welfare dependants that will vote in a particular direction. I live in London where 'muti culturalsim' has worked well overall because there was at the time, plenty of work and housing to go round, but in some parts of the country that were already impoverished by the industrial destruction under Thatcher - it has been a disaster. Blaires government just threw fuel on the fire, Instead of helping them, they just gave them more competition. so they have been double screwed in effect.

So it was of little surprise, when the political and middle classes who ignored and demonised them for so long, begged them not to press the Brexit button, they blew it all up in our faces. i cant say I blame them.
wrong to blame the immigrants, it is not their fault. To the policy makers is where the blame should be going..

the US election has many similarities.

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 01:10 PM

I have found what the entire campaign season looks like:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Yq5gG91kM4Yko/giphy.gif

mapuc

11-04-16, 01:45 PM

The election day is approaching fast lesser than a week to this day.

Maybe you already have voted or you wait to this day

If you already have voted I hoped you used your common sense before you decided which candidate you think is the best to be your next president.

What your common sense told you to vote only you know-there's isn't any golden rules-Maybe your common sense said Clinton is the best choice or it was Trump.

(A look into the future in this thread)
I expect someone will say that a person who put their vote A or B can't have used their common sense.

Markus

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 02:05 PM

JU_88

11-04-16, 02:07 PM

Common sense used in the same sentence with Hillary or Trump just does not seem to work. :hmmm:
:yep:

em2nought

11-04-16, 03:01 PM

Au contraire! I present the work "Breakfast with the Trumps".

http://www.snopes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/trumptable.jpg

It would seem he has at least ten of them.

I would rest easier if Trump had nice solid oak furniture, and instead a pile of .9999 canadian gold coins on the table. My mom's broker had those same tastes in furniture, and I didn't like him. :03:

AVGWarhawk

11-04-16, 03:25 PM

Platapus

11-04-16, 03:35 PM

I have found what the entire campaign season looks like:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Yq5gG91kM4Yko/giphy.gif

This election season has been like watching 7 year olds arguing at recess

"your side did this!"
"Well so did your side!"
"Your side did it first!"
"Your side did it more!"
"Your side did it worse!"

(facepalm) This is the level of political discussion in the US these days.

Subnuts

11-04-16, 04:10 PM

Au contraire! I present the work "Breakfast with the Trumps".

http://www.snopes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/trumptable.jpg

It would seem he has at least ten of them.

How do I know that Donald Trump isn't The Devil? Because he'd be a man of wealth and taste if he was.

Oberon

11-04-16, 04:39 PM

How do I know that Donald Trump isn't The Devil? Because he'd be a man of wealth and taste if he was.

You sound like you might have some sympathy for him... :03:

em2nought

11-04-16, 05:45 PM

Mr Quatro

11-04-16, 06:36 PM

Perhaps you would like Trump's private yacht better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsng4xdFLxI

or Trump's private jet interior:

http://www.luxurytopics.com/chest/gallery/donald-trumps-private-chopper/luxury-fancy-chopper-donald-trump%20(1).jpg

August

11-04-16, 06:38 PM

Bet you wouldn't have to worry about the Trumps stealing the White House furniture... :yep:

eddie

11-04-16, 06:40 PM

Bet you would!

August

11-04-16, 06:48 PM

Well only one actually has.

Oberon

11-04-16, 07:06 PM

Well only one actually has.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/oct/01/viral-image/viral-image-wrongly-accuses-clinton-stealing/

August

11-04-16, 09:29 PM

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/oct/01/viral-image/viral-image-wrongly-accuses-clinton-stealing/

You link to an exaggeration of the event probably created in an attempt to dismiss criticism.

Here's the truth.
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the-clinton-furniture-flap/

Onkel Neal

11-04-16, 11:08 PM

The point is not the object, but the fact that you're voting for the status quo whilst proclaiming that you're voting against the status quo.

Besides, of course I'm bloody PC, I'm the Kommandant of the PC Police as designated by the owner of this forum! :O:

I never said your were the Kommandant. What did you do, promote yourself?

Reece

11-05-16, 12:15 AM

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/12/23/1230082378_9484/539w.jpg
Oberon, you're a legend in your own mind!

Oberon

11-05-16, 06:37 AM

You link to an exaggeration of the event probably created in an attempt to dismiss criticism.

Here's the truth.
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/the-clinton-furniture-flap/

Ah, excellent...that's fair enough, I've found that polifact can be usually quite good but prone to the odd exaggeration. Honestly, it sounds like a big mix-up rather than a deliberate attempt at theft. Seems like a similar thing happened to the Reagans with dresses and necklaces.
I wouldn't have been surprised if something small, like cutlery, would have gone AWOL though...I'm not sure I'd be able to resist the temptation to take a souvenir.

I never said your were the Kommandant. What did you do, promote yourself?

Huh...my bad...I thought I would have been promoted by now, for services rendered. :hmph:

Oberon, you're a legend in your own mind!

You love it. :O:

STEED

11-05-16, 06:49 AM

Please get on with it so I can watch other news other than this boring silly election!

Oberon

11-05-16, 06:52 AM

Please get on with it so I can watch other news other than this boring silly election!

Exactly, this election is getting in the way of our Brexit chaos, please stop it.

STEED

11-05-16, 07:00 AM

Exactly, this election is getting in the way of our Brexit chaos, please stop it.

Starting to get bored with that one as well. What happen to the good old news from years ago?

UFO lands in field, Farmer abducted!

Loch Ness Monster is real!

The Beast of Bodmin returns.

The mystery of the mud angle....Oh wait that was Father Jack.

Oberon

11-05-16, 07:08 AM

Oh wait that was Father Jack.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6nogwESUx1rwuopao1_r1_250.gif

In other news, Obama handled a Trump protestor well, although he was still ejected from the rally which I think is a bit of a shame, but I guess someone in the crowd might have done something stupid, but what Obama said is spot on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnUs8v0LeD4

JU_88

11-05-16, 01:46 PM

In other news, Obama handled a Trump protestor well, although he was still ejected from the rally which I think is a bit of a shame, but I guess someone in the crowd might have done something stupid, but what Obama said is spot on.

Fair play ^
Part of me will miss Obama, even though he was a mediocre establishment approved puppet, at least he was a likable one.

Torplexed

11-05-16, 02:12 PM

Fair play ^
Part of me will miss Obama, even though he was a mediocre establishment approved puppet, at least he was a likable one.

Obama is indeed a very good speaker. Her husband's not bad, either. :salute:

mapuc

11-05-16, 02:26 PM

Regardless of who will be the next President of USA

This thread will be very interesting to read the day after the election
(and of course the day before and on the election day, but mostly the day after)

Markus

Oberon

11-05-16, 03:10 PM

Obama is indeed a very good speaker. Her husband's not bad, either. :salute:

:up:

I've got to give Barack his due, he's probably been one of the most media savvy presidents since Reagan, and he's gotten right in there with the new social-media technology, and given a good image as a likeable family man, now whether that's just an image or whether it's the truth I cannot say, only he and his closest people would know that, but compared to what's coming...yeah, I'm going to miss him.

Torplexed

11-05-16, 03:29 PM

:up:

I've got to give Barack his due, he's probably been one of the most media savvy presidents since Reagan, and he's gotten right in there with the new social-media technology, and given a good image as a likeable family man, now whether that's just an image or whether it's the truth I cannot say, only he and his closest people would know that, but compared to what's coming...yeah, I'm going to miss him.

To his credit, Obama's administration has been scandal free to the point of dull sometimes. The really big scandals are always the ones in which the president himself is involved. It was Nixon's voice on those tapes that made Watergate a nightmare for him. It was Reagan's approval of the scheme to sell arms to terrorists and then divert the profits to the army the administration had created in Nicaragua that made Iran-Contra such a consequential affair. And as for the Lewinsky scandal, well let's just say Bill Clinton was intimately involved.

But the "no-drama Obama" thing seems to holding.

mapuc

11-05-16, 03:30 PM

Ain't that funny-During his time as President, Obama was hated by many and there were many conspiracy regarding him and his Presidency

Now where there are two new candidates-many now hope that Obama would stay for a period or more.

I guess its like you know what you have. but you don't know what you'll got if electing a new President.

Markus

Catfish

11-05-16, 03:50 PM

Although there are now a few voices who say at least a bit neutral or even slightly positive about Obama, almost all we could read here was that the majority of the american people have outright hated him.
The first black american president did not have much support for sure. :hmmm:

Oberon

11-05-16, 04:19 PM

almost all we could read here
The first black american president did not have much support for sure. :hmmm:

Not here anyway. :03:

Onkel Neal

11-05-16, 04:33 PM

Mr. Obama was the first half-black president. His mother was white, remember? And she cared for him while his black father went on his merry way and abandoned him. Did not pay child support, did not spend time with him. Visited Barrack once. Yet people still say he's the first black president. He's just as much white as he is black. The math is easy. 50%.

Obama did not get support here because he was wrong for America. He's making our problems and challenges worse, not better. I like Obama as a person, he's a good guy and a really good speechifier, but I never thought he was qualified to be a President. I wish him well.

mapuc

11-05-16, 05:13 PM

So Clinton is under pressure-Heard on the news not so long ago, she had to visit one of the Dems certain state ´cause the polls showed it weren't that Dem-supporters after all. She hadn't any plan to visit this state
She visit Chicago.

Markus

Skybird

11-05-16, 05:31 PM

The first black american president
Obama is not black. ;) He is a half-caste, if that is the correct word (=Halbblut).

P.S. Oh, Neal was quicker.

Platapus

11-05-16, 06:16 PM

Mr. Obama was the first half-black president. His mother was white, remember? And she cared for him while his black father went on his merry way and abandoned him. Did not pay child support, did not spend time with him. Visited Barrack once. Yet people still say he's the first black president. He's just as much white as he is black. The math is easy. 50%.

Which drinking fountain and bathroom would he have been permitted to use if he were around in the 50's? I doubt anyone back then would consider him "half black".

AndyJWest

11-05-16, 06:17 PM

Obama is not black. ;) He is a half-caste, if that is the correct word (=Halbblut).

P.S. Oh, Neal was quicker.

No, it is not the correct word. And by the one-drop rule that has historically dominated U.S. ideology regarding 'race', he is very much 'black'. Something which any impartial observer can readily see has driven much of the personal enmity against him.

Cue immediate denials by everyone...

Onkel Neal

11-05-16, 06:28 PM

Which drinking fountain and bathroom would he have been permitted to use if he were around in the 50's? I doubt anyone back then would consider him "half black".

Yeah, but you don't agree with those people in the 50's, do you?

No, it is not the correct word. And by the one-drop rule that has historically dominated U.S. ideology regarding 'race', he is very much 'black'. Something which any impartial observer can readily see has driven much of the personal enmity against him.

Cue immediate denials by everyone...

The one drop rule is racist. It was used to reduce someone's standing in society. It was racist to deny blacks equal access to public facilities, and this rule was instrumental in declaring someone with a black parent or grandparent were not equal to whites. And that prejudice exists today when people say a man with a black father and white mother is "black".

Someday, a black man will be elected President of the USA.

AndyJWest

11-05-16, 06:36 PM

The one drop rule is racist. It was used to reduce someone's standing in society. It was racist to deny blacks equal access to public facilities, and this rule was instrumental in declaring someone with a black parent or grandparent were not equal to whites. And that prejudice exists today when people say a man with a black father and white mother is "black".

Someday, a black man will be elected President of the USA.

Of course the one drop rule is racist. That is what it is for.

THE_MASK

11-05-16, 06:38 PM

AndyJWest

11-05-16, 06:43 PM

In Australia most people dont give a rats if you are white or black or anything else . But what I am more concerned about is big corporations undermining workers rights and pay . The rich are getting much richer and the poor are gaining in numbers .

I'm not sure the evidence really justifies your first sentence, but as for the rest, the answer lies in the hands of the Australian working class - a bit of good old-fashioned class struggle would seem to be the optimum response. Hopefully they won't allow themselves to be hoodwinked by billionaire businessmen pretending to be acting on their behalf...

Onkel Neal

11-05-16, 06:44 PM

Of course the one drop rule is racist. That is what it is for.

Yes sir.

And I do not mean to imply anyone following the popular standard of calling Mr. Obama Black is racist. I understand it's just an incorrect application of a label that everyone falls back on.

yubba

11-05-16, 06:51 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=200&pictureid=9260

well this was the picture I was trying to post in a thread I started but got locked because it cut to close to the the truth,, nice to know things haven't changed ,, he who laughs last,, laughs best you know I really hope Hillary wins and when it all falls apart we can all agree liberalism doesn't work,,,

AndyJWest

11-05-16, 07:12 PM

Yes sir.

And I do not mean to imply anyone following the popular standard of calling Mr. Obama Black is racist. I understand it's just an incorrect application of a label that everyone falls back on.

There aren't any 'correct' applications of arbitrary labels based around social constructs erected for the maintenance of domination of one group of individuals over another. Racist ideology is nonsense on stilts once you look at in any depth: but the point is that people don't: they just use it unthinkingly to justify their debasement of those they consider 'other'. Which for most of Obama's life meant that he was considered 'black' - and may possibly have even considered himself thus, given that on can accept the categorisation without necessarily accepting the legitimacy of the hierarchy implied. And replacing the one-drop rule with another that instead labels him as 'mixed race' or whatever is just as arbitrary, just as devoid of meaningful content, and self-evidently just as driven by attempts to label individuals as 'other' for ideological purposes. It has been readily apparent from the start that this obligation to present Obama as 'other' has driven discourse against him - in particular the whole 'birther' nonsense, and ludicrous claims of him being a 'secret Muslim' have amply shown how the United States is still dominated by the sort of ideology that attempts to deny power (and even citizenship) to those who don't fit in with the perceived norms of a self-defined 'majority' seemingly afraid that one drop of 'non-white' blood in the White House might bring the entire edifice crashing down. Which of course it hasn't, leaving political discourse to move on to the next convenient social construct - one that presents a woman seeking political office as somehow driven by alien forces supposedly not present in men doing exactly the same thing...

Oberon

11-05-16, 07:23 PM

got locked because it cut to close to the the truth

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/65493760.jpg

Oberon

11-05-16, 08:09 PM

Something has happened at a Trump rally which has resulted with Trump being rushed off stage by his security detail. Hope everything is ok (and yes, I am being serious, I don't like the guy but I don't wish harm on him).

EDIT: Oh, apparently a fight broke out. A shame, probably an pro-Clinton antagoniser. Really wish opposition supporters wouldn't gate-crash rallies, it doesn't help anyone and it just makes things worse.

EDIT EDIT: From what I can tell, a guy tried to raise a sign, someone yelled 'Gun' and everyone else started repeating 'Gun', so Trump was bundled out and the guy was arrested.

yubba

11-05-16, 10:14 PM

I'm not sure the evidence really justifies your first sentence, but as for the rest, the answer lies in the hands of the Australian working class - a bit of good old-fashioned class struggle would seem to be the optimum response. Hopefully they won't allow themselves to be hoodwinked by billionaire businessmen pretending to be acting on their behalf...

Well we have been already hoodwinked by a no account rapist and his wife that became millionaires by taken bribes from countries that throw gays off of roof tops for sport,,,and we have been hoodwinked by all of those that we put in congress,, I just assume have the billionaire con man put in office maybe congress will grow a set and do their job,,,Hillary gets in they'll cower to the word sexist like they did to word racist ,, dealing with Obama.

AndyJWest

11-06-16, 12:22 AM

Well we have been already hoodwinked by a no account rapist and his wife that became millionaires by taken bribes from countries that throw gays off of roof tops for sport,,,and we have been hoodwinked by all of those that we put in congress,, I just assume have the billionaire con man put in office maybe congress will grow a set and do their job,,,Hillary gets in they'll cower to the word sexist like they did to word racist ,, dealing with Obama.

Is the American educational system really that bad, or did you achieve that level of illiteracy all by yourself?

Méo

11-06-16, 12:37 AM

he who laughs last,, laughs best you know I really hope Hillary wins and when it all falls apart we can all agree liberalism doesn't work,,,

I bet that you or someone like you said something similar when Obama first got elected, you know like 8 years ago...:hmmm:

AndyJWest

11-06-16, 01:29 AM

Trump protester: I was beaten for holding a 'Republicans against Trump' sign
...
While he was surprised at what occurred at the rally, Crites he said he did not blame the crowd for his treatment. “I like these people,” he said. “These are my fellow Americans. I love these people. I understand that they came here because they’re patriotic, they want to do good for their country.”

He added: “The people who attached me – I’m not blaming them. I’m blaming Donald Trump’s hate rhetoric.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/trump-protester-i-was-beaten-for-holding-a-republicans-against-trump-sign

em2nought

11-06-16, 01:37 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/trump-protester-i-was-beaten-for-holding-a-republicans-against-trump-sign

Maybe that fellow should attend a BLM event next, and hold up a "white lives matter" sign.
:D
https://i.imgflip.com/jckyw.jpg

JU_88

11-06-16, 03:33 AM

Well we have been already hoodwinked by a no account rapist and his wife that became millionaires by taken bribes from countries that throw gays off of roof tops for sport,,,and we have been hoodwinked by all of those that we put in congress,, I just assume have the billionaire con man put in office maybe congress will grow a set and do their job,,,Hillary gets in they'll cower to the word sexist like they did to word racist ,, dealing with Obama.

Er... well, while Yubbas message there was a bit.... Yubba-ish :), he might not be entirely wrong.
If anyone has an hour to spare I would suggest they watch this. (I recommend Skipping to 4:29 to get past the over dramatized intro /montage) I dont know how accurate it is, but its certainly interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LYRUOd_QoM

Skybird

11-06-16, 06:34 AM

Jimbuna

11-06-16, 06:53 AM

well this was the picture I was trying to post in a thread I started but got locked because it cut to close to the the truth

No, not at all. The thread was locked because of the questionable content it contained and I see you post it again.

I now advise you read my comment below.

Well we have been already hoodwinked by a no account rapist and his wife that became millionaires by taken bribes from countries that throw gays off of roof tops for sport,,,and we have been hoodwinked by all of those that we put in congress,, I just assume have the billionaire con man put in office maybe congress will grow a set and do their job,,,Hillary gets in they'll cower to the word sexist like they did to word racist ,, dealing with Obama.

Any more of the above and your posting privileges will be revoked.

Surely you are better able to express your views without embellishing them with such potentially slanderous and defamatory meaning.

The line has been drawn.

Oberon

11-06-16, 07:50 AM

Life can be queer - as illustrated today as I find myself somewhat agreeing with - or better getting partially convinced by - a radical Marxist and culture-critical philisopher from Slovenia, Slavoj Źiźek, who apparently is said to be one of the present stars of his branch. I admit I have never heard of him before and know nothing about him.

However, this piece I read in the German Die Zeit today, and at the end it said "translated from the English by XYZ", so I searched five minutes and then found the English original in Newsweek, two months ago.

At least it is an interesting perspective on the meaning of Trump for the Republicans.

I already would have agree before that Clinton is not the lesser evil in this choice, though i would have agreed with that statement for different reasons. Źiźek's reason behind condemning her, is (somewhat crowd-)psychologically complex, and interesting.

http://europe.newsweek.com/slavoj-zizek-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-us-presidential-election-bernie-489993

That's not a bad assessment, and there's quite a few on the left who feel the same way. Trump unified what could have been a very divided left in order to vote for Clinton, if a moderate candidate had won the Republican nomination then he or she may well have been able to exploit the cracks in the left and drive a wedge between Clinton and the 'Bernie-bros', but Trump isn't that candidate, and he's tried to drive that wedge, you'll notice that in the last debate and I think the debate before that he kept focusing on how Clintons campaign had belittled Sanders and tried to undermine him, but Trump isn't the right person to bring the spotlight on those issues because he is so bellicose that liberal thinkers will side with anyone just to make sure he doesn't get into office. Trump represents, at least in what he says and promises, the sheer antithesis of all liberal thought...and indeed that's what has made him so popular amongst many on the right who have had eight years of a liberal president and want their brand of politics back on the stage.
I've often said, and I still maintain, that this election was in the bag for the GOP, all they needed was the right candidate and Clinton would have been toast. For all we know, Trump might yet win though, it's not out of the realms of possibility. However the road he has taken to that goal has alienated many in the GOP. Whether those same people will swallow their pride and fall into line behind President Trump is the next question, certainly some already have, others would probably eject rather than serve under him. I think Kaisch probably would resign, maybe McCain too.
In a way, the right has had their own Clinton vs Sanders battle, with the gulf between their beliefs and what Trump has been spreading and the decision whether to swallow their pride and vote on party lines, or stick to their guns and refuse to vote for a person who isn't what they believe in.

Rockstar

11-06-16, 07:52 AM

I bet that you or someone like you said something similar when Obama first got elected, you know like 8 years ago...:hmmm:

I think it was more along the lines that most said he was the change agent of doom, the antichrist, the devil who would destroy the constitution and kill all the white people.

I guess he's waiting until the last minute. :haha:

Oberon

11-06-16, 07:55 AM

Onkel Neal

11-06-16, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal
or Janet Yellin.

:o

:o :o

:o :o :o

:timeout:

Well, how about Roberta Williams, then?

Skybird

11-06-16, 08:56 AM

^Sorry, never heard that name, no clue who she is and what office she holds, so no opinion from me on her suitability to be POTUS.

Platapus

11-06-16, 09:00 AM

I think it was more along the lines that most said he was the change agent of doom, the antichrist, the devil who would destroy the constitution and kill all the white people.

I guess he's waiting until the last minute. :haha:

You forgot "He is gonna take yur guns!"

My favourite was what a woman said at a McCain rally here in Virginia.

She foretold that if Obama gets elected, he will force Republican women to get abortions as a way of populating the country with Democrats.

I thought that was one of the more entertaining conspiracies. :up:

August

11-06-16, 09:39 AM

You forgot "He is gonna take yur guns!"

Good thing that you included the deliberate misspelling of "your". After all belittling people isn't as effective unless you can also cast aspersions upon their intelligence.

em2nought

11-06-16, 09:48 AM

Whether those same people will swallow their pride and fall into line behind President Trump is the next question, certainly some already have, others would probably eject rather than serve under him. I think Kaisch probably would resign, maybe McCain too.
In a way, the right has had their own Clinton vs Sanders battle, with the gulf between their beliefs and what Trump has been spreading and the decision whether to swallow their pride and vote on party lines, or stick to their guns and refuse to vote for a person who isn't what they believe in.

I predict that if the good ol' boy GOPers do that it will be a grave mistake for them. Trump voters won't forget the slight. Just try running an establishment GOP candidate the next election after a betrayal like that. :03:

Buddahaid

11-06-16, 10:07 AM

Because following your conscience is a betrayal?

Oberon

11-06-16, 11:07 AM

I predict that if the good ol' boy GOPers do that it will be a grave mistake for them. Trump voters won't forget the slight. Just try running an establishment GOP candidate the next election after a betrayal like that. :03:

That is the thing, it's hard to tell how many people are Trump supporters and how many people are Republican supporters backing Trump because they hope that he'll get a Republican into the White House. Also, like the Obama supporters of 2008, it's how much of what he's saying that he's going to do he'll actually be able to do before 2020.

Ultimately, in the long term it might be better for the GOP if Trump was to crash and burn, it would discredit the tea party movement, and give the middle ground GOP a chance to clear house of all of the fringe candidates and get back to some sense of normality and stability. However, as it stands, if Trump does lose it is probably not going to be by a big amount, which means the Tea Party element is going to stay at the top which means you're going to wind up with the risk of another Trump-like candidate in 2020 to lose against Hillary.

ReallyDedPoet

11-06-16, 11:11 AM

Ultimately, in the long term it might be better for the GOP if Trump was to crash and burn, it would discredit the tea party movement, and give the middle ground GOP a chance to clear house of all of the fringe candidates and get back to some sense of normality and stability. However, as it stands, if Trump does lose it is probably not going to be by a big amount, which means the Tea Party element is going to stay at the top which means you're going to wind up with the risk of another Trump-like candidate in 2020 to lose against Hillary.

:yep:

Torplexed

11-06-16, 12:12 PM

However, as it stands, if Trump does lose it is probably not going to be by a big amount, which means the Tea Party element is going to stay at the top which means you're going to wind up with the risk of another Trump-like candidate in 2020 to lose against Hillary.

And in the meantime before 2020, stayed tuned for four years of legal challenges, counter challenges, SCOTUS nomination blockings, rigging accusations, ballot recounts, government shut downs and conspiracy theories to further poison the well. There is no happy ending no matter who wins.

Oberon

11-06-16, 12:16 PM

And in the meantime before 2020, stayed tuned for four years of legal challenges, counter challenges, SCOTUS nomination blockings, rigging accusations, ballot recounts, government shut downs and conspiracy theories to further poison the well. There is no happy ending no matter who wins.

http://replygif.net/i/509.gif

Torplexed

11-06-16, 12:37 PM

http://replygif.net/i/509.gif

Hillary's one blessing. I don't think anyone seriously disputes her birth certificate. :O:

mapuc

11-06-16, 12:47 PM

Have a question about the American election system

What will happen if the end result is a draw
(Both candidate has same number of electoral votes) ?

Markus

Platapus

11-06-16, 12:49 PM

Have a question about the American election system

What will happen if the end result is a draw
(Both candidate has same number of electoral votes) ?

Markus

According to the Constitution, The House of Representatives will select the President and the Senate will pick the VP by simple majority of the top candidates.

Webster

11-06-16, 03:59 PM

Have a question about the American election system

What will happen if the end result is a draw
(Both candidate has same number of electoral votes) ?

Markus

im pretty sure there is no possible combination of states that could add up as a numerical tie at 270 so someone has to come out with more then the other but I also believe there can be a point where they both can get less then the 270 majority needed and in that case, Platapus' response applies

mapuc

11-06-16, 04:09 PM

Thank you for your answer.

A President should be chosen by the people and not by other politicians, so I hope this will not happen. Even though a President wins with only 10 or 100 votes different.

Markus

Oberon

11-06-16, 04:23 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwmyE1oXAAEsnoH.jpg

http://www.bloodygoodhorror.com/bgh/files/reviews/caps/vampires-kiss.jpg

AndyJWest

11-06-16, 04:23 PM

No criminality in Clinton emails - FBI

The FBI has found no evidence of criminality in the new batch of Hillary Clinton emails.
In a letter to members of Congress, FBI director James Comey said the agency had finished its review and found nothing to change its position.
In July, he said Mrs Clinton had been careless but not criminal in handling sensitive material on her private email server while secretary of state.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37892138

Oberon

11-06-16, 04:37 PM

Not that anyone who doesn't believe that is going to be swayed, and anyone who does believe it is going to be dis-swayed.
Dumb timing, but equally, it was a Catch-22...if he had sent the note after the election then the GOP would have hung him, and since he sent it before the election the Dems are going to hang him instead.
Probably would have been easier just to resign and let some other mook do it. :haha:

mapuc

11-06-16, 05:19 PM

Now I await all these anti-Clinton stuff coming in a line stream, well they use to come now and then, but now where she is free from accusation the Americans who don't like her will post a lot of stuff regarding Clinton.

Markus

AndyJWest

11-06-16, 05:29 PM

Interesting little article on Buzzfeed:
“This is the news of the millennium!” said the story on WorldPoliticus.com. Citing unnamed FBI sources, it claimed Hillary Clinton will be indicted in 2017 for crimes related to her email scandal.
“Your Prayers Have Been Answered,” declared the headline.
For Trump supporters, that certainly seemed to be the case. They helped the baseless story generate over 140,000 shares, reactions, and comments on Facebook.
Meanwhile, roughly 6,000 miles away in a small town in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, a young man watched as money began trickling into his Google AdSense account.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo?utm_term=.rfRZ00w49#.jrKQbbNAM

Yup. Balkan free enterprise is currently tapping the apparently endless market for Trump-puffing websites, and doing so with no regard for anything remotely aligned with 'facts' or other expensive-to-find resources. Register a tasty URL ("WorldPoliticus.com, TrumpVision365.com, USConservativeToday.com, DonaldTrumpNews.co, etc..."), grab something off some fringe tinfoil-hatter's site, add a new headline, and watch the advertising money roll in. Isn't unbridled capitalism wonderful. :03:

Oberon

11-06-16, 05:50 PM

Interesting little article on Buzzfeed:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo?utm_term=.rfRZ00w49#.jrKQbbNAM

Yup. Balkan free enterprise is currently tapping the apparently endless market for Trump-puffing websites, and doing so with no regard for anything remotely aligned with 'facts' or other expensive-to-find resources. Register a tasty URL ("WorldPoliticus.com, TrumpVision365.com, USConservativeToday.com, DonaldTrumpNews.co, etc..."), grab something off some fringe tinfoil-hatter's site, add a new headline, and watch the advertising money roll in. Isn't unbridled capitalism wonderful. :03:

That does not surprise me in the slightest. Where there's muck there's brass as the old saying goes.

Meanwhile, Trumps aides have finally managed to pin him down and take away his twitter access...it's several months too late, but at least an effort was made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PABOf09aes

Platapus

11-06-16, 05:57 PM

This election has been quite the paradox.

Two candidates. Each one worse than the other.

I think we have Dr. Schrodinger holding on line 1.... or did he hang up?

Takeda Shingen

11-06-16, 06:04 PM

So, the latest round of investigations yielded the same result as those this summer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37892138

mapuc

11-06-16, 06:35 PM

In Denmark and i Sweden the prosecutor and an investigation leader, can do three things, when they investigate a person or persons

1. Close the case= there is not enough to prosecute.

2. Have found something that will end with a hearing, but there is a very high chance for acquitted

3. The Prosecutor and the investigation leader have found enough for a trial and there are a very high chance for a verdict.

If it is same in USA, I think Clinton goes under number 1. She may have done something wrong, but it's not enough to take her to court.

Markus

August

11-06-16, 06:49 PM

They have had 8 days to review 650,000 emails. That's about 1 per second.

Oberon

11-06-16, 06:53 PM

If the FBI is manually reading each email rather than filtering out emails that are not related to the instance at hand...then they really need retraining.
It's the 21st century, search engines can filter out the wheat from the chaff, that kind of technology is not really cutting edge, so unless the FBI is so incompetent that it can't find its backside with both hands (which is a whole different matter) then eight days would have been enough to decide if they had anything which was relevant.

mapuc

11-06-16, 07:28 PM

Trump, what have he said about this latest development ?

I heard only a few words on the news-Something about the corrupt system.

Markus

Mr Quatro

11-06-16, 08:12 PM

They have had 8 days to review 650,000 emails. That's about 1 per second.

That does not include finding out that many were duplicates of what they already have ... someone got a phone call:yep:

Hottentot

11-07-16, 12:14 AM

Not that anyone who doesn't believe that is going to be swayed, and anyone who does believe it is going to be dis-swayed.

And it took whole 2 hours and 12 minutes to prove that you were right with this prediction.

Skybird

11-07-16, 08:44 AM

Edward Snowden ahs twittered - in tech-speak that only insiders and programmers seem to understand - that even an old laptop could filter out within minutes to few hours whether one of the "new" emails already had been exmained in last investigation or not.

@jeffjarvis (https://twitter.com/jeffjarvis) Drop non-responsive To:/CC:/BCC:, hash both sets, then subtract those that match. Old laptops could do it in minutes-to-hours.
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) 7. November 2016 (https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/795435387321655296)
It has been found that what he refers to, is realistic. That means that the claim that 650 thousand emails had to be individually read in past 8 days, cannot be supported. It seems the FBI uses algorithms to filter out emails already researched earlier - and that are practically all. If now it took just hours to filter these out - not individually researching and examining them - then indeed the question is why the FBI took another 7 days, after the first day, until they said that everything was alright.

It is a suspicious proceeding indeed, due to the dubious timing.

P.S. What Snowden mentions, in principle is not different than what you do when pasting and copying a number of files into an existing folder with files, and there are shared files with identical byte-length and date markings. You get a huge number of files marked that way without you ever having needed to check them one by one indiovidually. If you have ever done that and had matching files, you know what I mean. It really is no magic, and nothing unrealistic - its pretty much ordinary data management work that probbaly everybody of us already has done a hundred times in his life.

But this whole election show already stinks that intense to the heavens that this attempt to rig the poll does not seem to make much of a difference. In other words: who cares anymore?

Jimbuna

11-07-16, 09:01 AM

The truth is out there.

Oberon

11-07-16, 09:09 AM

I think the reason they took so long is that they probably went over it with a fine-tooth comb, just to make sure that there was nothing there that could even be considered relevant. Is there a pro-Trump bias in the FBI? I have my doubts, just as I have my doubts that the FBI is 'rigged' as the other side claims. The FBI is just another political football on this battlefield. :dead:

Onkel Neal

11-07-16, 09:56 AM

Skybird

11-07-16, 10:41 AM

One the eve of the election, I want to say I will accept the winner of the race, and I will give them a fair chance. I only hope the margin of victory is not razor thin and disputable, no matter who wins.

https://twitter.com/CrappyCrapson

Sometimes being more choosy is not picky, but wise. None of the candidates will become a better human all of a sudden just because he won an election. The surrounding system that bred them, still is the same.

Sometimes not loyalty or obedience, but resistence is the only moral option left.

August

11-07-16, 11:00 AM

One the eve of the election, I want to say I will accept the winner of the race, and I will give them a fair chance. I only hope the margin of victory is not razor thin and disputable, no matter who wins.

Oh I hope it is razor thin because I don't want either major party candidate thinking they have a mandate to push their agenda.

In this country gridlock is the best form of government for the common man. As long as the two parties are at loggerheads the less then can screw us over.

Aktungbby

11-07-16, 11:09 AM

I think the reason they took so long is that they probably went over it with a fine-tooth comb, just to make sure that there was nothing there that could even be considered relevant. :dead:
http://cdn.detonate.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/8e5f933da3b03233ad64ed26575f91be.jpg (http://detonate.com/pictures-that-hillary-clinton-wishes-would-go-away/38/)A FINE TOOTH COMB MAY BE JUST THE THING!:Dhttp://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2650802.1464275022!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/68250464.jpg

Oberon

11-07-16, 02:42 PM

In this country gridlock is the best form of government for the common man. As long as the two parties are at loggerheads the less then can screw us over.

But isn't the inability of the government to do anything about anything one of the things that people are so fed up about?

A FINE TOOTH COMB MAY BE JUST THE THING!:D

We shall overcoooooomb, we shall overcooooomb.

Catfish

11-07-16, 02:44 PM

^ :haha:

You know that Trump's grandfather Friedrich Trump tried to become a hairdresser, after he left Germany to evade the compulsory miltary service? :yep:

@Neal you say you "give whoever a chance", the question is whether they offer you one.

@ August
Oh I hope it is razor thin because I don't want either major party candidate thinking they have a mandate to push their agenda.
In this country gridlock is the best form of government for the common man. As long as the two parties are at loggerheads the less then can screw us over.

Not bad :up: However, i think there should have been better candidates. How is it even possible in a 'democracy', that the son/daughter/huband/wife of a former president again becomes president :doh:

mapuc

11-07-16, 02:55 PM

Whoever the American choose as their next President I will, as an ordinary person, respect their choice

Now that it is said, I somehow hope it will be Trump-Not that I'm a supporting him or Clinton, but they way I have seen public persons mock not only Trump but also those who support him.

When I read such thing I get sad. So I hope this "saying" will turnaround and kick them in the back-Meaning Trump win.

Markus

August

11-07-16, 03:15 PM

But isn't the inability of the government to do anything about anything one of the things that people are so fed up about?

Or so the party controlled media would have you believe. Most people just want to be left alone.

Oberon

11-07-16, 03:24 PM

Or so the party controlled media would have you believe. Most people just want to be left alone.

Fair enough...is there a historical precedent of a gridlocked government working well?

August

11-07-16, 04:15 PM

Fair enough...is there a historical precedent of a gridlocked government working well?

Guess it depends on what you define as working well but there is plenty of historical precedent for governments that work smoothly to turn oppressive.

In any case I'm talking about my government in the here and now. YMMV. Both sides here want to pass legislation restricting the freedom of Americans. You might say pick your poison but as long as they're gridlocked we aren't being forced to drink it.

Oberon

11-07-16, 04:35 PM

Guess it depends on what you define as working well but there is plenty of historical precedent for governments that work smoothly to turn oppressive.

In any case I'm talking about my government in the here and now. YMMV. Both sides here want to pass legislation restricting the freedom of Americans. You might say pick your poison but as long as they're gridlocked we aren't being forced to drink it.

It's fair point, I'm just a bit concerned that such governments leave an opening for a powerful man to come and fill the void. In a way a bit like the Roman Republic just before Gaius Julius. :hmmm:

mapuc

11-07-16, 04:39 PM

Skybird

11-07-16, 04:52 PM

About 4 % of the world population are the only who have the right to vote on who shall be the next President of USA.
About 96 % of the world population will be affected by his or her foreign politics or economical politics

Markus
Nicely put. Something Americans sometimes forget, :), although their influence is shrinking. To lend from a famous quote: its their election, but our problem as well.

STEED

11-07-16, 05:30 PM

Don't vote, go to work instead. :03:

mapuc

11-07-16, 05:41 PM

As STEED said. The winner have been found

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN1322J1

Markus

Torplexed

11-07-16, 08:14 PM

Don't vote, go to work instead. :03:

I voted two weeks ago. This whole election has a zombie vibe to me right now.

Oberon

11-07-16, 08:37 PM

https://65.media.tumblr.com/1080a876774cbf85ad96f10d47a97e32/tumblr_mymdshYuOL1s9evxpo1_500.jpg

eddie

11-07-16, 09:12 PM

Oberon

11-07-16, 10:27 PM

Onkel Neal

11-07-16, 10:40 PM

I voted two weeks ago. This whole election has a zombie vibe to me right now.

I'll buy you a steak dinner if my candidate wins. In fact, I'll buy everyone in this thread a steak dinner. :03:

Oberon

11-07-16, 10:43 PM

I'll buy you a steak dinner if my candidate wins. In fact, I'll buy everyone in this thread a steak dinner. :03:

I wasn't aware the Big Texan Steak Ranch was running? :hmmm:

Oberon

11-07-16, 11:25 PM

Meanwhile, across the internet, moderator teams get ready...

https://media.giphy.com/media/hHCePYCLDqTok/giphy.gif

eddie

11-08-16, 02:44 AM

:haha::haha:

Catfish

11-08-16, 03:58 AM

Seems like a lifetime to get to this point Oberon,lol I hope some pollster will ask me who I am going to vote for as I go to vote, I am going to tell them George Gently!! Then I am going to wait to see how long it takes for them to figure out who he is!:haha:

:haha:

Do not say we did not warn you ..

Here's a good article "American Angst", from a german point of view:
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-11/us-election-donald-trump-hillary-clinton

Tthis is a Guardian opinion piece, but quite good
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/the-guardian-view-on-americas-choice-dont-vote-for-trump-elect-clinton

Psychological problem of course is, as soon as someone begins to use the voice of reason or facts, in our times it will instantly be refused and denied in an instinctive act of defiance (like with the Brexit: "in your face").

Well whatever the outcome, i really wish you and the USA the best :)

Jimbuna

11-08-16, 06:23 AM

Meanwhile, across the internet, moderator teams get ready...

https://media.giphy.com/media/hHCePYCLDqTok/giphy.gif

http://i.imgur.com/wbSuWUf.gif

:har:

Skybird

11-08-16, 08:29 AM

If Trump wins, blame Germany, as this picture proves.

http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_08/1434876/160226-kallstadt-germany-trump-overview-843a_0b463475f6c14b9455d0d2d67a780ca9.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

The city of Kallstadt. His family migrated from here.

However, America owes something positive to this very same city, too. The ancestors of the Heinz dynasty, known for their ketchup and sauces, also came from this city. For their Sweet Chilly and Tomato Cayenne sauce I am willing to commit murder, I admit.

Skybird

11-08-16, 08:32 AM

Meanwhile, across the internet, moderator teams get ready...

https://media.giphy.com/media/hHCePYCLDqTok/giphy.gif
:har:

Oberon

11-08-16, 11:54 AM

Harts Location already voted this morning, took them 5 minutes to vote, and 15 minutes to count! 17 for Clinton, 14 for Trump, 3 for Johnson and...2 for Sanders.

Oberon

11-08-16, 12:44 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu73CgxdKec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZsgrZwqdS0

Skybird

11-08-16, 01:21 PM

"Grit your teeth and get to it!"
http://www2.pic-upload.de/img/32080056/ert.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-32080056/ert.jpg.html)

Oberon

11-08-16, 02:27 PM

"Grit your teeth and get to it!"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwoOTZXAAAppUT.jpg

Sailor Steve

11-08-16, 02:46 PM

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Vote_zpsmz7ta7wd.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/Vote_zpsmz7ta7wd.jpg.html)

eddie

11-08-16, 04:00 PM

When voting here, we have to vote for State Supreme Court judges and District Court Judges. 99% run unopposed. So for a lark, I wrote in "Judge Deed" for one of the District Court Judges,lol

Oberon

11-08-16, 04:02 PM

:yeah:

Meanwhile:

http://i.imgur.com/Oj0WwRL.jpg

AndyJWest

11-08-16, 04:51 PM

:yeah:

Meanwhile:

http://i.imgur.com/Oj0WwRL.jpg

ROFL! :har::har::har::har::har:

Jimbuna

11-08-16, 04:56 PM

Harts Location already voted this morning, took them 5 minutes to vote, and 15 minutes to count! 17 for Clinton, 14 for Trump, 3 for Johnson and...2 for Sanders.

And look what's happened there :)

Mr Quatro

11-08-16, 05:02 PM

Hillary Clinton's inaguration song ... no lie :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg2oR91_r5I

Oberon

11-08-16, 09:43 PM

Wow...America...you're really going to do this? :doh:

Torplexed

11-08-16, 09:58 PM

Wow...America...you're really going to do this? :doh:

Yeah, starting to look like it. I wonder if Neal has any orange emoticons? :06:

CNN's predicting Republicans retaining control of the Senate.

The Presidency might come down to traditionally democratic Michigan, which is odd.

If nothing else this is a politically fascinating race. A lot of the "rules" aren't being followed.

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:00 PM

The dollar is already falling over...wonder if it'll catch up with our falling pound.

https://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2013/13-812-05/embrace-the-suck.jpg

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:05 PM

The Dow Jones is down 500 points. But that was to be expected if Trump looked like he would win.

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:10 PM

By the way, congrats on calling it back in August...I guess.

Eh, the way 2016 is rolling, I'm going to go for Trump. :dead:

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:12 PM

The Dow Jones is down 500 points. But that was to be expected if Trump looked like he would win.

I guess if the people wanted to tear it all down then wrecking the currency, the way that the rest of the world views America, and terrifying a lot of the populace (especially if you're LBGTQ, Muslim or Hispanic) is a good way to do it.

All hail Romulus Augustulus, Emperor of the Western Roman Empire. :yep:

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:14 PM

By the way, congrats on calling it back in August...I guess.

Yup, 2016 is the ultimate troll. One can only hope that it delivers the coup de grace next month with a supernova.

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:15 PM

I guess if the people wanted to tear it all down then wrecking the currency, the way that the rest of the world views America, and terrifying a lot of the populace (especially if you're LBGTQ, Muslim or Hispanic) is a good way to do it.

All hail Romulus Augustulus, Emperor of the Western Roman Empire. :yep:

Indeed. I retract my invitation to you regarding coming to America, as it appears that this will not be an improvement of your circumstances. It would seem that we will be journeying with you into the long night. We won't be playing Fallout 5. We'll be living it.

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:16 PM

Indeed. I retract my invitation to you regarding coming to America, as it appears that this will not be an improvement of your circumstances. It would seem that we will be journeying with you into the long night. We won't be playing Fallout 5. We'll be living it.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Skybird

11-08-16, 10:17 PM

Greet showact, isn't it? Nobody does it like Hollywood.

:D

I only wish Trump would be drunk more often, than we could have a little taste of Yeltzin in all this show to come in the next four years.

Skybird

11-08-16, 10:20 PM

Yup, 2016 is the ultimate troll. One can only hope that it delivers the coup de grace next month with a supernova.
Finance-wise its in the making. Maybe not already next month, but have a little faith. 2008-squared is coming.

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:20 PM

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:22 PM

Finance-wise its in the making. Maybe not already next month, but have a little faith. 2008-squared is coming.

Honestly, this is beginning to not surprise me...

DOW fell 540 points on 9/11...

It's now fallen 680 and still going...

https://media.giphy.com/media/1xucXbDnMIYkU/giphy.gif

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:23 PM

Nate Silver just called it for Trump on ABC.

I'm sure that guy's stock as an elite pollster has just taken a huge hit as well.

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:24 PM

Nate Silver just called it for Trump on ABC.

I'm sure that guy's stock as an elite pollster has just taken a huge hit as well.

RIP 538.com
2016-2016

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:26 PM

RIP 538.com
2016-2016

Allow me a small moment of levity.

:)

That's it.

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:28 PM

Allow me a small moment of levity.

:)

That's it.

Only a moment. We're royally screwed.

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:28 PM

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.

Elliot, a nice touch.

I follow a chap on twitter, he's born British but living in the US, he quoted in Anglo-Saxon a verse from the 7th century the other day in reference to the election, I thought it good and so I shall put forward the English translation below:

Who liveth alone longeth for mercy,
Maker's mercy. Though he must traverse
Tracts of sea, sick at heart,
– Trouble with oars ice-cold waters,
The ways of exile – Weird is set fast.

No weary mind may stand against Weird
Nor may a wrecked will work new hope;
Wherefore, most often, those eager for fame
Bind the dark mood fast in their breasts.

He knows who makes trial
How harsh and bitter is care for companion
To him who hath few friends to shield him.

A wise man may grasp how ghastly it shall be
When all this world's wealth standeth waste.

Where is that horse now?
Where are those men?
Where is the hoard-sharer?
Where is the house of the feast?
Where is the hall's uproar?
Alas, bright cup!
Alas, burnished fighter!
Alas, proud prince!
How that time has passed,
Dark under night’s helm, as though it never had been!

Wealth is lent us, friends are lent us,
Man is lent, kin is lent;
All this earth's frame shall stand empty.

The Wanderer - Unknown author

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:37 PM

Who liveth alone longeth for mercy,
Maker's mercy. Though he must traverse
Tracts of sea, sick at heart,
– Trouble with oars ice-cold waters,
The ways of exile – Weird is set fast.

No weary mind may stand against Weird
Nor may a wrecked will work new hope;
Wherefore, most often, those eager for fame
Bind the dark mood fast in their breasts.

He knows who makes trial
How harsh and bitter is care for companion
To him who hath few friends to shield him.

A wise man may grasp how ghastly it shall be
When all this world's wealth standeth waste.

Where is that horse now?
Where are those men?
Where is the hoard-sharer?
Where is the house of the feast?
Where is the hall's uproar?
Alas, bright cup!
Alas, burnished fighter!
Alas, proud prince!
How that time has passed,
Dark under night’s helm, as though it never had been!

Wealth is lent us, friends are lent us,
Man is lent, kin is lent;
All this earth's frame shall stand empty.

The Wanderer - Unknown author

Thanks Obama?

Rockstar

11-08-16, 10:39 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ko9TpduOhE

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:40 PM

So, we have taken a petulant man-child who does not understand anything related to the presidency, and whom even his own staff do not trust with a Twitter account, and have handed him the nuclear codes.

Oberon

11-08-16, 10:41 PM

You know, we could wargame the outcome of a Trump victory by making Yubba and Bubblehead1980 the sole moderators of GT. See how that pans out. :yeah:

Torplexed

11-08-16, 10:43 PM

A lot of the state initiatives concerning the legalizing of recreation Marijuana are passing.

I have a feeling a lot of people will be spending the next four years happily stoned.

Takeda Shingen

11-08-16, 10:46 PM

A lot of the state initiatives concerning the legalizing of recreation Marijuana are passing.

I have a feeling a lot of people will be spending the next four years happily stoned.

If you're going to go out I guess you go out happy.

Skybird

11-08-16, 10:49 PM

"Of course we could try to run away from this - but why dying tired?"

:haha:

Lets not forget that tonight's event is not coming out of the blue. It is the preliminary climax of a process haunting America with growing political hate and polarization and trench-digging since roughly 2 decades already, since the first Clinton era. Globalization's losers and the crisis of trust in paper money later added to the phenomenon of splashing stellar amounts of mockery over Clinton for his lack of will to control his little Willy, and the dubious tax and ficnial actions of the Clintons. And then the change in the structure of the population of the US, favouring the Democratic party and threatening the traditional voter pool of the traditional Republicans. It all comes together and leads to this dirty and foul campaign, and now this night.