2016 US Presidential election thread

[Oberon]

Much crow will be eaten.

It will be the cheapest meat available... :O:


Honestly though, do you see a positive future for traditional targets of discrimination in the aftermath of this election? Even if Trump does lose after all this, the fact that he would have come so close, do you really think that the isn't going to be an upswing in racism, sexism, homophobia and other such horrible incidents in the coming days and weeks?

[eddie]

Wall Street index is down by over 800 points right now.

[Skybird]

In the Kremlin they start to get the champagne out and on the tables, they pump up the music's volume and call in the girls.

Cramps in the stomach and heavy headaches in Berlin. Breakfast cancelled this morning.

[Torplexed]

It will be the cheapest meat available... :O:


Honestly though, do you see a positive future for traditional targets of discrimination in the aftermath of this election? Even if Trump does lose after all this, the fact that he would have come so close, do you really think that the isn't going to be an upswing in racism, sexism, homophobia and other such horrible incidents in the coming days and weeks?

The leader of Australia's far-right nationalist One Nation Party, Pauline Hanson, has congratulated Trump calling him "Mr President". So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe not KKK cookouts on the White House lawn, but still.

Another question is has this race and Brexit finally killed the science of polling? None of the polls predicted this endgame. Is polling pointless in future races?

[Skybird]

If polls would have a meaning, elections would not be needed to be held.

Serious, some fundamental balances got lost in the world in past years, established mechanisms that lend stability and predictability, were rendered meaningless by that new world in which chaos, anti-ratio and anti-reason and dysbalance seem to be the new "normal". That all and everything goes ever faster these days, becomes more and more complex, requires quicker and quicker reactions, does not help either.

Not really a surprise as long as you were not surprised by the past 10-15 years and their goings. We reap what we have sown. Walk through the world with too many illusions about it, and you end up finding yourself in a world that refuses to explain itself to you any longer. Its not so much that the world does not make sense to you anymore. Its more about that you do not make sense to the world.

[August]

It will be the cheapest meat available... :O:


Honestly though, do you see a positive future for traditional targets of discrimination in the aftermath of this election? Even if Trump does lose after all this, the fact that he would have come so close, do you really think that the isn't going to be an upswing in racism, sexism, homophobia and other such horrible incidents in the coming days and weeks?

No I don't.

[Cybermat47]

When I woke up today, this was me:
http://i.imgur.com/MbRjrLl.jpg

But I guess I don't have much choice but to accept reality now :(
http://i.imgur.com/kJdZiRs.jpg

Thank God my country has more than two parties.

[Oberon]

No I don't.

It's those people I feel sorry for. I hope that some modicum of sense prevails in any Trump presidency and some of, if not all of, the more radical proposals that he made are rejected or forgotten. But...there's a lot of very scared people out there now, in America and abroad.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/09/americans-google-how-do-i-emigrate-as-searches-for-end-of-the-wo/


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

I'm rooting HARD for Trump to win.
It's only in the brink of the precipice,
only in the face of total annihilation,
that human beings find the will to change.

Trump will bring that to the Americans.
So it's good in the long run.

Besides we get good laughs every couple of days
cos the guy is a complete troll and has the IQ of a monkey.

[nikimcbee]

Is it over yet?:haha: I think it was the Belicheck-Brady factor.

Time to start shopping for that 5'3 orange jump suit.

[eddie]

If Trump wins, how will Congress work with him. Still in Republican control, but not a lot of them supported him. Going to be interesting to watch.

[Oberon]

If Trump wins, how will Congress work with him. Still in Republican control, but not a lot of them supported him. Going to be interesting to watch.

I suspect that they'll come around, you give someone a sniff of power and they'll soon throw away their morals. There'll be some hold-outs, they'll be the ones to watch, the people that reject Trump even though he's their ticket to power, but the rest will probably roll over or hold their nose and go along with it.

Could very well say the similar thing about some of the Bernie supporters in the DNC and Hillary.


You poor sods... :nope:

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeMGqTwWA6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_LrQSMTTD4

[eddie]

If Trump wins, I hope he doesn't appoint Christie to take care of our roads and bridges,lol

[eddie]

I suspect that they'll come around, you give someone a sniff of power and they'll soon throw away their morals. There'll be some hold-outs, they'll be the ones to watch, the people that reject Trump even though he's their ticket to power, but the rest will probably roll over or hold their nose and go along with it.

Could very well say the similar thing about some of the Bernie supporters in the DNC and Hillary.


You poor sods... :nope:

I sit here and watch this unfold, and wonder what is going to happen to us in the near future. I don't see him pulling the country together. Scared to think what our relations with the rest of the world will be like. Glad that there is control and balances so he doesn't have a free reign with some of his ideas.

[Bilge_Rat]

Trump wins! 274!

[Bilge_Rat]

now 277 at Real Clear Politics.

Why are the TV networks still at 254?

[Takeda Shingen]

now 277 at Real Clear Politics.

Why are the TV networks still at 254?

Probably a liberal-Muslim-Jewish-hispanic-homosexual-academic conspiracy. You know, all the typical boogiemen.

[Dmitry Markov]

I knew it, I knew it !!!!

Trump! Trump! Trump! :-)

My congratulations to all who helped to vote for "our" candidate :yeah:

[Bilge_Rat]

Clinton has conceded!

President Trump!

[Catfish]

Trump wins. Wow just wow. The USA really pulled that stunt :o

Now we have Erdoghan in Turkey, Orban in Hungary, Kaczynski as polish prime minister, Putin in Russia, Ukraina, Romania, all with their nationalist and "patriotic" reprisals against critics and immigrants, then "Brexit" and finally Trump in the USA.
I guess the people got lazy and bored, because common sense was so normal and so natural. I hope they are happy now, interesting times ahead for sure.


»Wirklich, ich lebe in finsteren Zeiten!
Das arglose Wort ist töricht. Eine glatte Stirn
Deutet auf Unempfindlichkeit hin. Der Lachende
Hat die furchtbare Nachricht
Nur noch nicht empfangen.«





[...] I have understood that Trump does not like me as Mexican. But I think he'd like the fact that I speak better German than he himself. As Neal Stevens noticed on our meeting in Germany, most Germans even take me for a German. [...]

I would have, if i had not known.. and my spanish is virtually inexistent.
Regarding Trump it's nothing personal, you know. Trump hates everyone with another opinion or nationality.
Well you are always welcome here if things turn out badly ;)


I knew it, I knew it !!!! Trump! Trump! Trump! :-)
My congratulations to all who helped to vote for "our" candidate :yeah:

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::up:
Hehe yes, the russian hackers were successful and Putin is happy now.

[Gray Lensman]

70,000 USA factories closed since NAFTA was passed in the 1990s

50% of Union members just in Pennsylvania switched over to vote for Donald Trump.

The USA rust belt working man finally got sick of the crapola spewed by the liberal/progressive Globalists Democrats and RINO Republicans establishment.

As Trump stated the other night... Brexit PLUS PLUS PLUS

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/Ewr8QyF.jpg

[em2nought]

70,000 USA factories closed since NAFTA was passed in the 1990s

I knew Ross Perot was correct. :03:

Great effort by the apparently much bigger than expected basket of deplorables! :Kaleun_Applaud:
...and thanks where it is due
http://www.working-minds.com/action/images/mTIMEcover-mockupPOYassange.jpg

[nikimcbee]

70,000 USA factories closed since NAFTA was passed in the 1990s

50% of Union members just in Pennsylvania switched over to vote for Donald Trump.

The USA rust belt working man finally got sick of the crapola spewed by the liberal/progressive Globalists Democrats and RINO Republicans establishment.

As Trump stated the other night... Brexit PLUS PLUS PLUS

I think this will be interesting to see play out. If he's able to politically flip the working unions (not public). Assuming he's able to revitalize US industry again.:hmmm:

[STEED]

You guys did a Brexit well I never.

Lets hope Trump now calms down and gets on with the job.

[HunterICX]

''When the election's result hit the US just right''
http://i.imgur.com/vDTaduf.png?1

[Eichhörnchen]

Lets hope Trump now calms down and gets on with the job.

Plenty to do: he wrote a lot of big cheques with his mouth... not least the wall along the Mexican border. How soon 'til they're ready to accept tenders? We'll be watching closely.

[Catfish]

You guys did a Brexit well I never. [...]

From the urban dictionary:
"The opposite of an Irish Goodbye, the British Exit is a departure from a party that is specifically designed to be as harmful to everyone involved as possible. This can include verbal abuse, extensive damage, loud refusals to pay for anything, and hurling oneself through a closed window into people standing outside.
'Don't invite Dan over here ever again. His British Exit took us a week to clean up.' "

:haha:

[STEED]

Is the Canadian immigration website going to crash again? :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

So did I get this right?

Republicans win presidency

Republicans win Senate (47 vs. 51)

Republicans win House (219 vs. 238)

I have to admit that I didn't expect Democratic win in both Senate and House. Am I correct that we can expect a lot of filibusters?

[Catfish]

Plenty to do: he wrote a lot of big cheques with his mouth... not least the wall along the Mexican border. How soon 'til they're ready to accept tenders? We'll be watching closely.

Well in one way a populist's worst nightmare begins now: He has to deliver.

Or maybe not? Because he did not mean what he said, he changed his mind, he forgot it, tomorrow is a complete new situation.

Seems there is a worldwide movement towards right-wing populism and isolationism, and anti-intellectualism. Away from logical thinking and rationalism.

[Haukka81]

America failed IQ test , how much can be simple and uneducated people in america ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[em2nought]

America failed IQ test , how much can be simple and uneducated people in america ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just remember to pay your dues if we simpletons let you into NATO, or else. :03:

[Catfish]

^ Exactly that. Trump will exchange the Krim for Aleppo, and let Putin free hand on the baltic states.

Unless you pay, you know this is like with the honourable Mafia :03:

[Moonlight]

I wouldn't say it was a lack of the American people's IQ Haukka81, it was probably more of a vote for the lesser of the 2 evils, and the fact that staunch supporters of a certain political party whether American or any where else in the world will get their vote no matter what.
I'm sure you could have put a monkey as a republican or a democratic candidate and it would have polled just as well as a human, that's how human nature works, well I think it does anyway. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Even the geese are flying in escape over here, since all morning long already. :haha: Or was there an earthquake?

Lets feel Chinese, for we live in interesting times for sure. And all those awful Amerian sitcoms finally make sense: they helped to mentally brace ourself for four more years of bad entertainment to come.

Now them (Americans) and us (all others) have to live with this. Those who voted for him will have no right to complain afterwards. They voted for him, and they are responsible for it. If you help something to come true and it turns out bad, you are no victim, but accomplice.

I would have said all the same if Clinton would have won, btw. And the geese would have fled from Clinton as well.

[Jimbuna]

A little surprised at the result but what with all the dissatisfaction of the middle/working class throughout the US the end result was always a possibility.

Time for Trump to deliver and interesting times ahead.

[Torplexed]

^ Exactly that. Trump will exchange the Krim for Aleppo, and let Putin free hand on the baltic states.

Unless you pay, you know this is like with the honourable Mafia :03:

Yup. The new way America approaches its relations with its Allies. :-?

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/62/62f95a719be5dcb414ed70f0f7555c7bb20eb2db6a672a661e 40c56d892a453a.jpg

[Catfish]

@Jim
Dissatisfaction of the middle and working class led to this. Maybe, but also a general disgust towards politics, a fall for populism, and the urge to "show them". A furious counter-reaction against the establishment.

The middle class is almost finished, yes, but the seed was laid a long time ago before Obama. Taking away health care again and cutting taxes for the rich will not help them.
"Interesting", is a very reluctant word. :hmmm:

[Platapus]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Vote_zpsmz7ta7wd.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/Vote_zpsmz7ta7wd.jpg.html)


in my precinct, we had 65.65% turnout. This is not including the absentee voters.

The good news was that it was the highest turnout ever in that precinct.

The bad news was that it was the highest turnout ever in that precinct.

[Platapus]

My predictions for a Trump presidency

He won't be a bad as some fear
He won't be as good as some hope

He will make decisions that many will like
He will made decisions that many will dislike

He will not make decisions that many feel he should
He will not make decisions that many feel he shouldn't

He will be blamed for stuff he does do
He will be blamed for stuff he doesn't do

He will take credit for effects that he had no influence with
He will take credit for effects that he had influence

He will take the blame for effects that he caused
He will take the blame for effects that he did not cause

The United States will continue
Some will claim that we will suffer
some will claim that we will prosper
Some will claim that we will just keep on keeping on


Just like when Obama was elected.....


How soon will we have a thread "2020 US Presidential Thread"?

Too soon?

:D

[Subnuts]

I work with a number of very nice younger Muslim women, and I'm genuinely concerned about their safety at the moment. Even Connecticut has its fair share of bigoted ^%&heads. Have a bad feeling that this election will empower some folks to "take things in their own hands," so to speak. :nope:

[Skybird]

^ In the end, reality never has bowed to political or religious ideology, but continued with what it does best: that is to stay what it is. The same needs or reality Obama was confronted with, will confront Trump. And if you compare it to how it was eight years ago: the imo hysteric, overboarding enthusiasm for Obama that culminated in giving him a peace Nobel prize for achievements he had not even collected, then you can see Trump today as just the same pendulums swinging as far and excessively - but this time to th eopposite direction.

Reality will cut back his wings, he cannot evade it. Even a Donald Trump has to boil his tea with ordinary water. And he mostly likely will be a never-ending source of ongoing bad behaviour and cocky phrases provoking the politically correct plebs.

Promises to become expensive for us espeically outside the US - but entertaining. I will hold a pot of popcorn ready from now on whenever I switch on TV and watch the news.

Either he gets reelected in four years - or Bernie Sanders will claim socialist revenge. :D This guy would have been even worse and ruinous than Trump or Clinton.

[yubba]

8 years of Obama= Trump,, don't let the door hit you where the good Lord slit you... so nice to wake knowing I'll never have to cater to liberal mental illness,, like I've said he who laughs last laughs best,, I wonder how many will flee to escape justice,,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9GuwuOVZc

[yubba]

^ In the end, reality never has bowed to political or religious ideology, but continued with what it does best: that is to stay what it is. The same needs or reality Obama was confronted with, will confront Trump. And if you compare it to how it was eight years ago: the imo hysteric, overboarding enthusiasm for Obama that culminated in giving him a peace Nobel prize for achievements he had not even collected, then you can see Trump today as just the same pendulums swinging as far and excessively - but this time to th eopposite direction.

Reality will cut back his wings, he cannot evade it. Even a Donald Trump has to boil his tea with ordinary water. And he mostly likely will be a never-ending source of ongoing bad behaviour and cocky phrases provoking the politically correct plebs.

Promises to become expensive for us espeically outside the US - but entertaining. I will hold a pot of popcorn ready from now on whenever I switch on TV and watch the news.

Either he gets reelected in four years - or Bernie Sanders will claim socialist revenge. :D This guy would have been even worse and ruinous than Trump or Clinton.

Well maybe with Trump,, Congress and the media will do their job in keeping Trump inline,,the job that they refused to do with Obama,, that was why Trump was elected he by We the People,, and he wasn't some @#$%~! canidate shoved down our throats by the establishment..

[Catfish]

Yep, like we see everywhere recently, it is all about furious citizens demanding their right (51 percent), and voting against the establishment. Which sometimes shows the ugly truth, that chauvinism and racism are still a force to be reckoned with.

But what i do not understand is that just of all minorities in certain states obviously have also voted for Trump (?) And women. :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Well, well, who won? Trump? Really? At least we've seen the end of the Clintons, that's a positive. :up:

Now, it gets interesting. Lets see if Mr. Trump will deliver his promises. I didn’t vote for him, but he’s my president and I hope he does a good job.

[Takeda Shingen]

With the Republican Party retaining control of Congress there will be no check against Trump's edicts. And while his supporters will no doubt be very excited by the impending campaigns of terror against Muslims, women, minorities, gays and immigrants, I wonder how they will react to the coming budget deficits. Our God King has indicated that he will quadruple military spending, dramatically increase infrastructure budgets, construct a 40-foot-high barrier to extend across the nearly 2000-mile southern border and staff every inch of it 24/7/365, and generally increase spending across in all sectors while cutting taxes across the board. Even a child can tell you that this means deficit spending.

Will the satisfaction that these people feel from seeing those that they hate brutalized offset their hatred of government spending? Is the hatred of others greater than their hatred of deficits? Time will tell.

[Gray Lensman]

With the Republican Party retaining control of Congress there will be no check against Trump's edicts. And while his supporters will no doubt be very excited by the impending campaigns of terror against Muslims, women, minorities, gays and immigrants, I wonder how they will react to the coming budget deficits. Our God King has indicated that he will quadruple military spending, dramatically increase infrastructure budgets, construct a 40-foot-high barrier to extend across the nearly 2000-mile southern border and staff every inch of it 24/7/365, and generally increase spending across in all sectors while cutting taxes across the board. Even a child can tell you that this means deficit spending.

Will the satisfaction that these people feel from seeing those that they hate brutalized offset their hatred of government spending? Is the hatred of others greater than their hatred of deficits? Time will tell.

After 8 years of Obama, you are NOW worried about presidential edicts and their effects? What hypocrisy!!!!

[Takeda Shingen]

After 8 years of Obama, you are NOW worried about presidential edicts and their effects? What hypocrisy!!!!

Rejoice. Your God King will brutalize those who you hate.

[Prometheus]

At least we've seen the end of the Clintons, that's a positive. :up:

you are right about that my friend :yeah:

[August]

With the Republican Party retaining control of Congress there will be no check against Trump's edicts.
And while his supporters will no doubt be very excited by the impending campaigns of terror against Muslims, women, minorities, gays and immigrants, I wonder how they will react to the coming budget deficits. Our God King has indicated that he will quadruple military spending, dramatically increase infrastructure budgets, construct a 40-foot-high barrier to extend across the nearly 2000-mile southern border and staff every inch of it 24/7/365, and generally increase spending across in all sectors while cutting taxes across the board. Even a child can tell you that this means deficit spending.

Will the satisfaction that these people feel from seeing those that they hate brutalized offset their hatred of government spending? Is the hatred of others greater than their hatred of deficits? Time will tell.

This is why the Democrats lost. They create the worst deficit in American history and then they try to lecture Americans on what someone else might do. Maybe they should learn to face the fact that they put up a candidate that was so flawed she could be beaten by Donald Trump.

[Takeda Shingen]

This is why the Democrats lost. They create the worst deficit in American history and then they try to lecture Americans on what someone else might do. Maybe they should learn to face the fact that they put up a candidate that was so flawed she could be beaten by Donald Trump.

Number recognition not a strong suit? Allow me to help.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--pQovIW6u--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/roik9aov5rhy2astg3ld.jpg

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Thanks, Ralph Nader!!! You're the gift that keeps on giving!!!

So, how far has the stock market gone down today, so far?

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks, Ralph Nader!!! You're the gift that keeps on giving!!!

So, how far has the stock market gone down today, so far?

The markets went down substantially when BO was elected for his first term and second term. None story. Buy buy buy.

[Catfish]

This is why the Democrats lost. They create the worst deficit in American history and then they try to lecture Americans on what someone else might do. Maybe they should learn to face the fact that they put up a candidate that was so flawed she could be beaten by Donald Trump.

No. This election was not about numbers, and the deficit was not the worst:
The cost of Bush's policies was $5.1 trillion, and the cost of Obama's policies was a mere $983 billion. (https://www.quora.com/Who-created-more-debt-%E2%80%93-Bush-or-Obama)

"You also have to take into account that the year of 2009, in which the debt escalated rapidly, was not the blame of Obama. A new president is forced to adopt the old president's fiscal policies for one year, before they can implement their own more successfully. Therefore, excluding the stimulus package, one added year of debt can be mostly attributed to Bush and his policies."

Just claiming something does not make it true.
The democrats lost because of furious citizens, falling for populism and a general hate against "the establishment".

[AVGWarhawk]

Number recognition not a strong suit? Allow me to help.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--pQovIW6u--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/roik9aov5rhy2astg3ld.jpg

Donkeyfeed? Certainly not skewed. :doh:

[Takeda Shingen]

Donkeyfeed? Certainly not skewed. :doh:

Then have the CBO.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/P28ZmpjGqC5_r6lrh0rJmdcLN2_K8YuLkWXwuVi46pW1D61KnL boqERe6Xle84nZQdsrHqHVN7680y8hxKmAIfInGdl7Mw6eaF70 1sKVJ8_qPhv0enitOFSIzMVTZhyACA

Or is that too skewed as well? It doesn't blame Barack Obama for all of the world's evils so it must be wrong. Typical groupthink.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, well, who won? Trump? Really? At least we've seen the end of the Clintons, that's a positive. :up:

Now, it gets interesting. Lets see if Mr. Trump will deliver his promises. I didn’t vote for him, but he’s my president and I hope he does a good job.

Yes, good riddance to corruption. It is/was shamefully overlooked and tolerated just to get Hillary into the White House. The hypocrisy is astonishing. I have stated before in this very forum Hillary thought she would cruise through the roll of Sec of State adding another feather to her hat. The laying and cover up under her watch was her first undoing. The second undoing was corruption and a false persona within the DNC as demonstrated with the dropping of Wikileak emails. Hillary is all about Hillary. Third, careless handling of secret info. Refer back to sleeping at the helm as Sec of State. Fourth, the now found corruption inside the Clinton Foundation. The DNC could not have nominated a worse candidate. I'm ALL for a woman president. Hillary is not it. And to give Michael Moore his due.....it is a big FU.

I voted Trump. Is the guy brash, rude and rough around the edged sometimes? Yes sir. Was running for president something he needed to do for money, fame and fortune? Absolutely not. Trump has all of that and then some. So why run? Perhaps he really is fed up with the direction of the country and what is going on in DC. It is evident the voting public feel much the same. What do I have to lose voting Trump? A damn fine question Trump asked many.

I view Trumps presidency like William Shatner in his roll of Capt Kirk. Shatner is not a great actor by any means. However, he was surround by excellent actors that made it work for a controversial program named Star Trek. The key elements of great actors made the entire program work. Trump may not be the best president however he will surround himself with the brightest and best people that will make the system work. He does not owe anyone anything. No special interests. No good old boy club. I would expect Pence to his very very very good voice of reason. Pence has demonstrated that already.


Joe Scarbough host of Morning Joe said, "The angry white man voted in Trump." So what the hell is your point Joe?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

You guys are missing the point.

Trump is the best chance USA have of actually changing for the better.
Any other president would make things a little better or a little worse than the current state,
and that's the same bull**** that has been happening for centuries.

This civilization, if we can call it, is rotten and needs a huge chance, not a little change.
The hard truth is, only when your world is threaten with destruction that you became what
you are now. You say we're on the brink of destruction and you're right. But it's only on the
brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve.

Trump is dumb as a door, too proud for his own good and has the potential of bringing down
the annihilation and rain of fire that the world needs in order to evolve, which is something I
cannot say about any other candidate. I think we're at the point where only drastic measures
will make this civilization evolve, seems like I'm the only one who can see it, as per
interviews people decided to vote on his for all the wrong reasons.

Now we wait and hope all those nuclear warheads are still operational.

[Takeda Shingen]

You guys are missing the point.

Trump is the best chance USA have of actually changing for the better.
Any other president would make things a little better or a little worse than the current state,
and that's the same bull**** that has been happening for centuries.

This civilization, if we can call it, is rotten and needs a huge chance, not a little change.
The hard truth is, only when your world is threaten with destruction that you became what
you are now. You say we're on the brink of destruction and you're right. But it's only on the
brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve.

Trump is dumb as a door, too proud for his own good and has the potential of bringing down
the annihilation and rain of fire that the world needs in order to evolve, which is something I
cannot say about any other candidate. I think we're at the point where only drastic measures
will make this civilization evolve, seems like I'm the only one who can see it, as per
interviews people decided to vote on his for all the wrong reasons.

Now we wait and hope all those nuclear warheads are still operational.

That's entirely asinine.

[Takeda Shingen]

Joe Scarbough host of Morning Joe said, "The angry white man voted in Trump." So what the hell is your point Joe?

Probably that a bunch of angry, bigoted racists voted in an angry, bigoted racist. You know, just calling it how it is.

[AVGWarhawk]

Then have the CBO.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/P28ZmpjGqC5_r6lrh0rJmdcLN2_K8YuLkWXwuVi46pW1D61KnL boqERe6Xle84nZQdsrHqHVN7680y8hxKmAIfInGdl7Mw6eaF70 1sKVJ8_qPhv0enitOFSIzMVTZhyACA

Or is that too skewed as well? It doesn't blame Barack Obama for all of the world's evils so it must be wrong. Typical groupthink.


There is no group think. I'm talking me and what I see. The economy has been stagnant. Growth is almost on existent. The stock market is kept afloat by printing money and providing a false economy. This from looking daily at my own portfolio. The great lie called 401K for retirement is a shell game of uncertainty. It is NOT a pension plan that will be there no matter what the market is doing. The housing bubble burst absolutely crushed retired folks 401k as well as those still working building towards retirement. The medical systems is in shambles. People are forced to accept sky high premiums. I have family members on Medicare that can not afford a majority of tests recommended by doctors. Both Affordable Care and Medicare need an entire overhaul as well as the entire healthcare system. People voted their day to day issues they want resolved.

[Bilge_Rat]

My predictions for a Trump presidency

He won't be a bad as some fear
He won't be as good as some hope

He will make decisions that many will like
He will made decisions that many will dislike

He will not make decisions that many feel he should
He will not make decisions that many feel he shouldn't

He will be blamed for stuff he does do
He will be blamed for stuff he doesn't do

He will take credit for effects that he had no influence with
He will take credit for effects that he had influence

He will take the blame for effects that he caused
He will take the blame for effects that he did not cause

The United States will continue
Some will claim that we will suffer
some will claim that we will prosper
Some will claim that we will just keep on keeping on


Just like when Obama was elected.....


How soon will we have a thread "2020 US Presidential Thread"?

Too soon?

:D

my feelings exactly, at least the next four years won't be boring. :ping:

[Takeda Shingen]

There is no group think. I'm talking me and what I see. The economy has been stagnant. Growth is almost on existent. The stock market is kept afloat by printing money and providing a false economy. This from looking daily at my own portfolio. The great lie called 401K for retirement is a shell game of uncertainty. It is NOT a pension plan that will be there no matter what the market is doing. The housing bubble burst absolutely crushed retired folks 401k as well as those still working building towards retirement. The medical systems is in shambles. People are forced to accept sky high premiums. I have family members on Medicare that can not afford a majority of tests recommended by doctors. Both Affordable Care and Medicare need an entire overhaul as well as the entire healthcare system. People voted their day to day issues they want resolved.

I understand that the whole "Barack Obama has ruined America" narrative is a popular one. It is just that the facts don't line up with it. Don't let that stop ya' though.

[AVGWarhawk]

Probably that a bunch of angry, bigoted racists voted in an angry, bigoted racist. You know, just calling it how it is.

It appears you have the same size brush as Joe Scarbough and with one fell swipe color everyone the same. You simply can say that.

[Catfish]

Why do i even bother. Everyone here can claim anything here without even posting faint evidence. Just say things loud and often enough and everyone will believe you. Excellent strategy.

[...] The laying and cover up under her watch was her first undoing. The second undoing was corruption and a false persona within the DNC as demonstrated with the dropping of Wikileak emails. Hillary is all about Hillary. Third, careless handling of secret info. Refer back to sleeping at the helm as Sec of State. Fourth, the now found corruption inside the Clinton Foundation. The DNC could not have nominated a worse candidate. [...]

Regarding Clinton and her "fail" or "corruptuion":

" ... her private email use was a careless, poor choice, it was by no means unprecedented.
Her two predecessors also relied on private email for official State Department communications – clearly a bad choice for communications security.
The blame for the Benghazi attack falls squarely on the terrorists who perpetrated it, not on any American politician. What happened at Benghazi is sadly the kind of risk our brave civil servants face around the globe. Once again, Hillary’s political adversaries turned a tragedy into a political football. No one ever speaks of the 13 embassies and consulates that were attacked during the previous administration, and the over 60 people who died in those attacks. More importantly, a Republican-led House Intelligence Committee investigation concluded that there was no wrong-doing by the Obama Administration (including Hillary’s State Department) in the run up to, and during the Benghazi attack. ..."


But go on, do not let facts interfere with your point of view.

And to give Michael Moore his due.....it is a big FU.

That's about it. And nothing more.

[Takeda Shingen]

It appears you have the same size brush as Joe Scarbough and with one fell swipe color everyone the same. You simply can say that.

What, was I not PC enough for you? Let's call it how it is, no pussyfooting around anymore. Time to own your choices.

[AVGWarhawk]

I understand that the whole "Barack Obama has ruined America" narrative is a popular one. It is just that the facts don't line up with it. Don't let that stop ya' though.

I did not say BO ruined America did I??? BO policies do not work and have not really moved American forward from where I'm sitting. The narrative that BO would ruin the country was stated at both of his elections. Stop the presses....life went on. Life will go on under Trump.

[Takeda Shingen]

I did not say BO ruined America did I??? BO policies do not work and have not really moved American forward from where I'm sitting. The narrative that BO would ruin the country was stated at both of his elections. Stop the presses....life went on. Life will go on under Trump.

You did just blame him for the housing bubble bursting in October of 2008. Guy hadn't even been elected yet. Previously in this thread another poster blamed him for the 2009 federal budget. Of course, that was Dubbya as well, but that guy can't be held accountable for anything. Blameless. Yeah, let's blame the black guy with the funny name.

[AVGWarhawk]

What, was I not PC enough for you? Let's call it how it is, no pussyfooting around anymore. Time to own your choices.

And what do you want to call it if you do not want to be PC? Racist, bigots and retards pretty much sums up how your brush works.

[AVGWarhawk]

You did just blame him for the housing bubble bursting in October of 2008. Guy hadn't even been elected yet. Previously in this thread another poster blamed him for the 2009 federal budget. Of course, that was Dubbya as well, but that guy can't be held accountable for anything. Blameless. Yeah, let's blame the black guy with the funny name.

No I did not. The bubble was at the hands of Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae who made, still do, bad loans to unsuspecting homeowners. BO inherited that issue. As a result of this collapse many got hurt financially. Since that time economically we have not really advanced. Yes, the market is up but only because we print money that is not backed. Everyday we are told to watch for another huge crash and correction. This is your future of retirement. Uncertainty if you are sucked into the 401k lie.

[JU_88]

2008

Republicans;
Obama is Muslim/Terrorist
Obama is and illegal alien
Obama = Communism

2016

Democrats;
Trump is Racist
Trump is a misogynist
Trump = Hate

Sour grapes & hysteria is not a partisan trait then :)

[AVGWarhawk]

my feelings exactly, at least the next four years won't be boring. :ping:

:har: I agree.

[Bilge_Rat]

not sure what you guys are arguing for, the election is over and President-elect Trump won fair and square.

We can spend the next four years arguing about the policies of President Trump.

President-elect Trump will be meeting with current President Obama on thursday to discuss the transition.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

https://i.sli.mg/2UQRGr.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

2008

Republicans;
Obama is Muslim/Terrorist
Obama is and illegal alien
Obama = Communism

2016

Democrats;
Trump is Racist
Trump is a misogynist
Trump = Hate

Sour grapes & hysteria is not a partisan trait then :)

I think BO was Socialism and not communism. Hard to say because the media drives the idiocy.

[Takeda Shingen]

Going to condense both lines into one so we don't spam the hell out of the forum.

And what do you want to call it if you do not want to be PC? Racist, bigots and retards pretty much sums up how your brush works.

Well, I didn't say retards. But yes, it is racism, bigotry and hatred. The guy ran on it, and people lapped it up. It certainly wasn't about ideas on how or what to do. Trump doesn't have any of those. He barely understands how government works. He has no fundamental grasp of any issues or problems. It was a pity that the disgusting noise he made for the entirely of the campaign all but precluded any actual discussion about policy, because it would have driven that point home. Not that it mattered to the army of toothless ignorants that anointed him their God King. They got who they wanted, and for the reasons they wanted him.

No I did not. The bubble was at the hands of Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae make bad loans to unsuspecting homeowners. BO inherited that issue. As a result of this collapse many got hurt financially. Since that time economically we have not really advanced. Yes, the market is up but only because we print money that is not backed. Everyday we are told to watch for another huge crash and correction

So your post using citing the housing collapse as a stick with which to beat Obama was not a post citing the housing collapse as a stick with which to beat Obama. Okay. Let me know if you have any more non-things to say.

[Commander Wallace]

I work with a number of very nice younger Muslim women, and I'm genuinely concerned about their safety at the moment. Even Connecticut has its fair share of bigoted ^%&heads. Have a bad feeling that this election will empower some folks to "take things in their own hands," so to speak. :nope:

I wouldn't be too concerned as most people are Intelligent enough to know laws are there to protect everyone. There are of course the occasional nut cases out there who think differently but by and large, they are a small minority. If some people want to live their lives as bigoted people, so be it as long as they don't act on it.

Yes, good riddance to corruption. It is/was shamefully overlooked and tolerated just to get Hillary into the White House. The hypocrisy is astonishing. I have stated before in this very forum Hillary thought she would cruise through the roll of Sec of State adding another feather to her hat. The laying and cover up under her watch was her first undoing. The second undoing was corruption and a false persona within the DNC as demonstrated with the dropping of Wikileak emails. Hillary is all about Hillary. Third, careless handling of secret info. Refer back to sleeping at the helm as Sec of State. Fourth, the now found corruption inside the Clinton Foundation. The DNC could not have nominated a worse candidate. I'm ALL for a woman president. Hillary is not it. And to give Michael Moore his due.....it is a big FU.

I voted Trump. Is the guy brash, rude and rough around the edged sometimes? Yes sir. Was running for president something he needed to do for money, fame and fortune? Absolutely not. Trump has all of that and then some. So why run? Perhaps he really is fed up with the direction of the country and what is going on in DC. It is evident the voting public feel much the same. What do I have to lose voting Trump? A damn fine question Trump asked many.

I view Trumps presidency like William Shatner in his roll of Capt Kirk. Shatner is not a great actor by any means. However, he was surround by excellent actors that made it work for a controversial program named Star Trek. The key elements of great actors made the entire program work. Trump may not be the best president however he will surround himself with the brightest and best people that will make the system work. He does not owe anyone anything. No special interests. No good old boy club. I would expect Pence to his very very very good voice of reason. Pence has demonstrated that already.


Joe Scarbough host of Morning Joe said, "The angry white man voted in Trump." So what the hell is your point Joe?

:agree:I don't get into politics since there is much I don't know but AVGWarhawk made a number of good points. I think people didn't like either candidate but Hilary's actions can't be ignored. Further, no one has pointed out the White Water controversy, travel gate, File gate not to mention the " suicide " of Vince Foster who was a deputy White house Counsel and before that, was a partner in the Rose law firm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_controversy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Vince_Foster

There is also the controversial Presidential pardon of Marc Rich (born Marcell David Reich from president Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, Clinton's last day in office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich


This doesn't even get into the email controversial. I think in the end, people have had enough and want to try something different.

Philipp Thomsen also made a number of good points as well in post # 3814

[Takeda Shingen]

I wouldn't be too concerned as most people are Intelligent enough to know laws are there to protect everyone. There are of course the occasional nut cases out there who think differently but by and large, they are a small minority. If some people want to live their lives as bigoted people, so be it as long as they don't act on it.

As of this January one of those people will be the nation's chief executive, who also happens to be the top of the law enforcement chain. The concerns of those individuals presented as scapegoats over the course of this campaign are legitimate.

[Bilge_Rat]

As of this January one of those people will be the nation's chief executive, who also happens to be the top of the law enforcement chain. The concerns of those individuals presented as scapegoats over the course of this campaign are legitimate.

and they have remedies:

-going to court if President Trump acts illegally;

-impeaching President Trump if he acts against the Constitution;

-presenting another candidate to run against him in 2020.

The election is over and President-elect Trump will become President of the U.S.A. on January 20th, 2017.

[Commander Wallace]

As of this January one of those people will be the nation's chief executive, who also happens to be the top of the law enforcement chain. The concerns of those individuals presented as scapegoats over the course of this campaign are legitimate.


I'm sure Trump will direct that these women's rights are violated. :nope:

You seem to forget there are checks and balances in the form of Congress and the Senate not to mention the judicial system if trump steps out of line.

[Rockstar]

https://i.imgur.com/cy7FrLv.jpg

It' a bumper crop!

[Takeda Shingen]

I'm sure Trump will direct that these women's rights are violated. :nope:

You seem to forget there are checks and balances in the form of Congress and the Senate not to mention the judicial system.

You mean the GOP-controlled congress and the soon-to-be reactionary judicial system? Yes, I'm sure the newly-labeled undesirables will find much shelter there. Trump will have carte blanche to do as he wishes, at least for until the midterms. At that point those targeted by his regime will have a chance to have their voices heard. If there are any of them left, that is.

[Takeda Shingen]

https://i.imgur.com/cy7FrLv.jpg

It' a bumper crop!

You take much delight in the misery of others.

[Commander Wallace]

You mean the GOP-controlled congress and the soon-to-be reactionary judicial system? Yes, I'm sure the newly-labeled undesirables will find much shelter there. Trump will have carte blanche to do as he wishes, at least for until the midterms. At that point those targeted by his regime will have a chance to have their voices heard. If there are any of them left, that is.

Again, The Gop isn't exactly thrilled with Trump either and will not blindly fall in line.

I understand you are not happy with Trump winning but the task ahead is for the Democrats and Republicans to do what they were elected to do. That is to work in the best interests of everyone concerned with a minimum of Govt. interference and reach across the isle and try to work together . Our time might be better spent in working toward that end.

[Rockstar]

Put your big boy pants on and it will be fine.

[Takeda Shingen]

Again, The Gop isn't exactly thrilled with Trump either and will not blindly fall in line.

I understand you are not happy with Trump winning but the task ahead is for the Democrats and Republicans to do what they were elected to do. That is to work in the best interests of everyone concerned with a minimum of Govt. interference. Our time might be better spent in working toward that end.

Really? I thought that the most patriotic duty one could do was to be as much as an obstacle of effective governance as possible.

I understand that you are enthused about this dark new America, but many of us are not. We will fight you every step of the way, and you will lose. The inexorable march of progress has never been stopped, and The Donald will fare no better in that endeavor than any of those who tried before. This is a temporary setback, nothing more.

[Takeda Shingen]

Put your big boy pants on and it will be fine.

Like I just said, you will lose. Be prepared.

[Commander Wallace]

Really? I thought that the most patriotic duty one could do was to be as much as an obstacle of effective governance as possible.

I understand that you are enthused about this dark new America, but many of us are not. We will fight you every step of the way, and you will lose. The inexorable march of progress has never been stopped, and The Donald will fare no better in that endeavor than any of those who tried before. This is a temporary setback, nothing more.

Dark new America ? Your solution is to elect a liar who has a history of contempt for the laws of the land ?

As for the many like yourself who don't like how the election transpired, get over it. People voted what they thought best. I think they are the many.

You really are delusional .

Hilary's chickens just came home to roost.

[Mike Abberton]

If the Democrats want to figure out a way to come back from this, they need to realize that a significant number of Trump supporters probably voted for him, despite the fact that he is a misogynistic, racist, etc. rather than because he is those things.

[Takeda Shingen]

Dark new America ? Your solution is to elect a liar who has a history of contempt for the laws of the land ?

As for the many like yourself who don't like how the election transpired, get over it.

You really are delusional .

Hilary's chickens just came home to roost.

I'll take delusional over hateful any day. :yeah:

The former says that I'm out of touch with reality. The latter says that I'm a bad person. I'd rather be lost than bad.

[Bilge_Rat]

I understand that you are enthused about this dark new America, but many of us are not. We will fight you every step of the way, and you will lose. The inexorable march of progress has never been stopped, and The Donald will fare no better in that endeavor than any of those who tried before. This is a temporary setback, nothing more.

I have to admit I am having trouble following your exact argument. Are you saying you actually bought Dem propaganda that the GOP will outlaw abortion, turn women and visible minorities into second class citizens, bring in a fascist regime, etc.

I heard the same crap from Democrats every election. The election of Reagan in 1980, Bush sr. in 1988 and Bush jr. in 2000 were all supposed to usher in a "Dark New America" (tm)

You do know G.W. Bush had more visible minority appointees in his cabinet than Barack Obama?

You do know that Trump's proposed immigration policy, i.e. to deport criminals as a priority is exactly the same immigration policy that Obama has been following?

[Rockstar]

Like I just said, you will lose. Be prepared.


Speaking of delusions just what exactley should I be prepared for?

[Commander Wallace]

I'll take delusional over hateful any day. :yeah:

The former says that I'm out of touch with reality. The latter says that I'm a bad person. I'd rather be lost than bad.


I don't think you are a bad person at all Two Bears, just not open minded or slanted toward one candidate regardless of her record. Most people probably have had a difficult time choosing between these two candidates.

I have confidence most people are not hateful either. Rather, they are exercising a degree of prudence in the direction their country is taking.

[Takeda Shingen]

I have to admit I am having trouble following your exact argument. Are you saying you actually bought Dem propaganda that the GOP will outlaw abortion, turn women and visible minorities into second class citizens, bring in a fascist regime, etc.

I didn't buy into any propaganda. I listened to and read your candidate's words.

I heard the same crap from Democrats every election. The election of Reagan in 1980, Bush sr. in 1988 and Bush jr. in 2000 were all supposed to usher in a "Dark New America" (tm)

You mean the same Holy Gipper that brought deficit spending to new levels and penned the free trade agreement that you were just complaining a few posts ago? Yes Virginia, NAFTA may have been singed into law by President Clinton, but it was Reagan-era legislation.

You do know G.W. Bush had more visible minority appointees in his cabinet than Barack Obama?

You do know that Trump's proposed immigration policy, i.e. to deport criminals as a priority is exactly the same immigration policy that Obama has been following?

A path to citizenship is what Trump wants? Why didn't he say so? He was probably too busy calling Mexicans criminals and rapists.

[August]

You did just blame him for the housing bubble bursting in October of 2008. Guy hadn't even been elected yet. Previously in this thread another poster blamed him for the 2009 federal budget.

Well you can try and blame George Bush for a Federal Budget that was written and passed by a Democrat controlled Congress and signed into law by a Democrat president but it's exactly the kind of Washington two step bull which was rejected by the American people just last night.

Democrats will just have to face the fact that they put up a candidate who could be beaten by Donald Trump. Now if they want to blame it on the stupidity of the American people and not on a party run by rich elitists that would nominate such a loathsome character as Clinton then don't expect much to change in 2020.

What disturbs me is that third parties combined still got less than 10% of the popular vote. I had hoped that this election would give them some validity going forward but apparently not.

[Skybird]

Comment in a German newspaper:

"Putin will annex the Crimean? He does not dare that. Erdoghan will reintroduce the death penalty? He will not go that far. Kaczynski paralysing the Constitution High Court? He cannot do that. The English will vote for Brexit? They will not do that. Trump becoming president? Never.

Its in the nature of (liberal) societies of the middle ground, that they take the moderate status quo for granted and stable and think disruptions by extremes are impossible. Thats why they often get surprised by the forseeable and obvious."

Well. 100/100 points for that.

[Takeda Shingen]

I don't think you are a bad person at all Two Bears, just not open minded or slanted toward one candidate regardless of her record. Most people probably have had a difficult time choosing between these two candidates.

Oh, I know I am not a bad person, but I am certainly open minded. That's why I oppose our new God Emperor. However you can take solace in the fact that my speaking out here will probably result in me being among the first victims of the upcoming pogroms. :har:

I have confidence most people are not hateful either. Rather, they are exercising a degree of prudence in the direction their country is taking.

What prudence is that? Trump offered no policy outside of fear of brown people. Sorry, but America is a far more hateful place than many, myself included, had previously thought.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well you can try and blame George Bush for a Federal Budget that was written and passed by a Democrat controlled Congress and signed into law by a Democrat president but it's exactly the kind of Washington two step bull which was rejected by the American people just last night.

Democrats will just have to face the fact that they put up a candidate who could be beaten by Donald Trump. Now if they want to blame it on the stupidity of the American people and not on a party run by rich elitists that would nominate such a loathsome character as Clinton then don't expect much to change in 2020.

What disturbs me is that third parties combined still got less than 10% of the popular vote. I had hoped that this election would give them some validity going forward but apparently not.

I will absolutely continue to blame George W. Bush for the budget that he signed, thank you.

[Skybird]

What disturbs me is that third parties combined still got less than 10% of the popular vote. I had hoped that this election would give them some validity going forward but apparently not.
It seems this Gary Johnson claimed libertarian guy decided the vote in favour of Trump in several states were he was tipping the scales. He costed Clinton right those votes with which she most likely would have won.

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyk-Vdd_Qrk


And, remember: Resist always :arrgh!:

[Commander Wallace]

Oh, I know I am not a bad person, but I am certainly open minded. That's why I oppose our new God Emperor. However you can take solace in the fact that my speaking out here will probably result in me being among the first victims of the upcoming pogroms. :har:



What prudence is that? Trump offered no policy outside of fear of brown people. Sorry, but America is a far more hateful place than many, myself included, had previously thought.


Well, if you feel that way, please don't visit the U.S and if you live in the U.S, feel free to leave at any time. We'll even help you pack and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

By the way, the next time a natural disaster hits your country or you are being persecuted in your homeland, please don't come here hat in hand asking for assistance.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well, if you feel that way, please don't visit the U.S and if you live in the U.S, feel free to leave at any time. We'll even help you pack and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I'm content to stay and fight to take my country back. We're going to win too! Be ready for it. :D

[Takeda Shingen]

By the way, the next time a natural disaster hits your country or you are being persecuted in your homeland, please don't come here hat in hand asking for assistance.

Rest assured that if and when a natural disaster hits southeastern Pennsylvania I will not be asking for help on the Subsim forums. :har:

[Commander Wallace]

Rest assured that if and when a natural disaster hits southeastern Pennsylvania I will not be asking for help on the Subsim forums. :har:


Obviously, that was not for people living in the U.S.:nope:

I said enough already.

[August]

It seems this Gary Johnson claimed libertarian guy decided the vote in favour of Trump in several states were he was tipping the scales. He costed Clinton right those votes with which she most likely would have won.

I think that Johnson took just as many votes from Trump as he did from Clinton maybe more. Jill Steins campaign on the other hand was just about 100% disaffected Democrat voters. That's definitely a percent or two that would probably have gone to Clinton otherwise.

[Subnuts]

Every time I get frazzled, I just keep saying to myself that the president is sworn to uphold the Constitution, and that there's a system of checks and balances in place to keep him from going totally off the rails.

The system is foolproof...right? :-?

[August]

Every time I get frazzled, I just keep saying to myself that the president is sworn to uphold the Constitution, and that there's a system of checks and balances in place to keep him from going totally off the rails.

The system is foolproof...right? :-?

The system is what you make of it.

In the words of Ronald Reagan:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

[aanker]

President Obama didn't uphold the Constitution, and Hillary would have continued down that same path of rule by executive order.

Everyone put their big boy pants on. The Presidency is only one third of our government under our Constitution, and I think Trump will be alright as POTUS.

[Takeda Shingen]

I'll close with, since I am very aware that I am not a welcome visitor to these forums, a curious flexible standard here. When people complain about liberal politicians around these parts they are held up as concerned patriots. When people complain about conservative politicians they're told to "put on their big boy pants". Interesting.

Enjoy yourselves. I'll show myself out.

[STEED]

Mick Jagger tweeted -
Just was watching the news... maybe they'll ask me to sing 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' at the inauguration, ha! :03:

[em2nought]

This election certainly shows the power of words. Clinton ran her ship on the shoal with three words "basket of deplorables". As soon as that phrase came out of her snide little mouth, save The Donald spouting something worse, she was undone.

So here's to the English language! :Kaleun_Cheers:

[August]

I will absolutely continue to blame George W. Bush for the budget that he signed, thank you.

Obama signed the 2009 budget into law, not Bush. And it was a budget both written and passed by a very hostile Democrat controlled congress who at that point felt quite free to ignore anything that Bush proposed so as far as i'm concerned they own it.

[August]

I'll close with, since I am very aware that I am not a welcome visitor to these forums, a curious flexible standard here. When people complain about liberal politicians around these parts they are held up as concerned patriots. When people complain about conservative politicians they're told to "put on their big boy pants". Interesting.

Enjoy yourselves. I'll show myself out.

Two Bears You are quite welcome here. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean we don't want you around. No the big boy pants comment was not very nice but certainly no worse than some of the things I read here back in 2008 and 2012 directed against conservatives.

[Mr Quatro]

The GOP won the white house and they already had control of the House and the Senate ... if Donald wanted to go to war in my humble opinion he would not get their support ... unless it was another Pearl Harbor.

What about those polls, uh? Who would trust another political poll?

Not me! :down:

[Oberon]

Two Bears You are quite welcome here.

Just going to keep this here, because it is fantastic.

Love it.

[August]

Just going to keep this here, because it is fantastic.

Love it.

C'mon man. I often disagree with things you say too but i wouldn't want to see you leave the forum.

[Mr Quatro]

C'mon man. I often disagree with things you say too but i wouldn't want to see you leave the forum.

Surely your not talking to Oberon ... C'mon man we love everyone here, right?

I know you just forgot the smilie :yep:

[nikimcbee]

Now Kali-fornia is threatening to secede.:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Oberon]

C'mon man. I often disagree with things you say too but i wouldn't want to see you leave the forum.

That's fair. :up:

[Subnuts]

As a Type I diabetic on a low and unpredictable income, I'm not terribly, ahem, "enthused" with the idea of losing my health insurance altogether. I started receiving Husky benefits around the time my hours started getting cut at work. I have no idea how I'd pay for my Insulin, test strips, and syringes if not for my insurance. I'm sure that Trumpcare would be the greatest thing since sliced bread (because he said it would be), but it's probably the main thing twisting my stomach in knots right now.

Man, I must be the only uptight, scared of change, straight white guy in America who isn't a conservative. :hmmm:

[Subnuts]

And before anyone says anything, yes, I am coming across as a liberal crybaby.

[Commander Wallace]

I'll close with, since I am very aware that I am not a welcome visitor to these forums, a curious flexible standard here. When people complain about liberal politicians around these parts they are held up as concerned patriots. When people complain about conservative politicians they're told to "put on their big boy pants". Interesting.

Enjoy yourselves. I'll show myself out.

I certainly don't agree with your point of view regarding the election but debate is a healthy thing. Your opinion is as good as anyone's here. A difference of opinion can be a good thing, if engaged in, respectfully. Like August said, no one wants to see you go, especially because you don't agree with some of the people that posted here, including myself.

Having said that, you may do better to have respect for other peoples opinion like we do with yours and hopefully, everyone else's. Engaging in discussions involving religion or politics isn't for the timid as people feel strongly about such things.


I hope you stay and continue to be a part of the forum but the choice is yours.

[nikimcbee]

And before anyone says anything, yes, I am coming across as a liberal crybaby.

That's okay, we have a big tent here. You're still a good guy.

How long have you been diabetic?

[Oberon]

And before anyone says anything, yes, I am coming across as a liberal crybaby.

No more than many other people I've seen across the internet this morning who are scared and confused as to how this has happened and what will happen next. The rug has been pulled out from under America, and I feel sorry for all the people who are going to be directly and indirectly affected by this.
I hope that you're able to keep getting your diabetic medication under whatever system that the new US government creates. I fear that it will be expensive though.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I'll close with, since I am very aware that I am not a welcome visitor to these forums, a curious flexible standard here. When people complain about liberal politicians around these parts they are held up as concerned patriots. When people complain about conservative politicians they're told to "put on their big boy pants". Interesting.

Enjoy yourselves. I'll show myself out.I normally prefer to live along with persons I disagree with as I'm perfectly aware that many times they maybe right and I wrong. However in your case I say "good riddance". In my opinion person who paints with big brush of bigotry everyone who dares to disagree with him brings no good to community. Therefore, don't let door hit you in your way out!

Oh and for the record: I'm not American, therefore I didn't vote. And before you accuse me of being "fascist", "racist", "right-winger" or other nonsense: I'm Socialist with previous rather Communist opinions.

[Onkel Neal]

Obama's health care programmed might have survived except his core constituents betrayed their own lofty ideas: young healthy people did not participate. Obama's own people doomed the ACA, and that factored into Hillary's defeat.

My health insurance went up 125% over last year, and I never use it. Doesn't matter, I will have to budget for it.

Dow Jones is up 150+, so much for the end of the world.

[Subnuts]

I hope that you're able to keep getting your diabetic medication under whatever system that the new US government creates. I fear that it will be expensive though.

Exactly the reason I'm going to start job hunting today. I finally passed the GED (General Educational Development) test last month, and don't have an excuse to keep working a BS part-time job forever.

[nikimcbee]

Obama's health care programmed might have survived except his core constituents betrayed their own lofty ideas: young healthy people did not participate. Obama's own people doomed the ACA, and that factored into Hillary's defeat.

My health insurance went up 125% over last year, and I never use it. Doesn't matter, I will have to budget for it.

Dow Jones is up 150+, so much for the end of the world.

We need to have an honest discussion about healthcare, but that can't happen until they chase all of the politicians out of the discussion.

[Onkel Neal]

Exactly the reason I'm going to start job hunting today. I finally passed the GED (General Educational Development) test last month, and don't have an excuse to keep working a BS part-time job forever.

There you go!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Oberon]

Exactly the reason I'm going to start job hunting today. I finally passed the GED (General Educational Development) test last month, and don't have an excuse to keep working a BS part-time job forever.

I hope that the stimulus plans that Trump has up his sleeve will help, the forecasters and professionals reckon that they won't, and that a new recession is coming, but I hope for all of us that they're like the pollsters in this case.

[Skybird]

If you look behind the offical WH and FED propaganda, you see that a recession was in place in America since several years, and still is right now. ;) Nobody admits it, however, assuming then it would not be real, and so tries to blind the masses. The numbers of improving economics to me are not convincing, never have been since years, but loook like Potemkin villages. What they lack, is to illustrate sustainability and long term perspective, a real trend change. The data given on jobs and financial improvements, are smoke screens. In its smoke cover, the crisis has eaten itself deeper into the structure of society and state.

How much appreciated that deception attempt is, we have seen last night.

Many young Americans need to work as hard - if not harder, than their parents. It'S just that they do not earn as much as their parents anymore, and cannot grow like their parents anymore. Although they work as much or work even more. Judging this by statistics and from a long distance, of course. This to me looks like one of the prime reasons why they did not believe Clinton's lame old paroles, especially in those states in the North that were assumed to be Clinton country. When you are in politics since 30 years or more, you cannot walk into the room and say "Hello everybody, I'm Hillary, and I'm the new girl in town."

From a European perspective, I see the chance Trump could mean for forcing the Europeans to spend less money on socialist insanity and instead invest it more into defence. European states would be well-advised to do like America and raise their budgets for defence to around 3% instead of the NATO-demanded 2% - which many states do not meet, including Germany, which spends 1-point-something on defence. For us, doing 3% would mean that we have to increase defence spending by a factor of around 2.5 . And that would suit us well. I hope Trump means business and deals tough with Europe and NATO, as he indicated he would do. Force seems to be the only thing that gets us Europeans moving again in a bid for catching up with reality again - instead of chasing after socialist feeling-well utopias and claimed moral superiority that nobody outside EUpistan cares for anyway. I also hope that Trump simply quits and cancels the presidential degree on having a "nuclear deal" with Iran. That deal is madness, and always was. And last hope of mine is that he shows Erdoghan the erected middle finger. Its uncertain that he will, but possible.

[eddie]

His plans for cleaning up corruption in Washington is just a pipe dream. Way too much money buys a Congressman's votes these days . It will be business as usual on Capitol Hill, lobbyists are not going to stop just because Trump has been elected.

[Mr Quatro]

His plans for cleaning up corruption in Washington is just a pipe dream. Way too much money buys a Congressman's votes these days . It will be business as usual on Capitol Hill, lobbyists are not going to stop just because Trump has been elected.

eddie! Are you forgetting that everyone that can sway a vote is already a Republican? :yep:

[Oberon]

Estonias government has collapsed, opening up the path for a pro-Russian government to come to power.

Everything is coming up Vladimir. :yeah:

[eddie]

Can't wait to see who Trump has in his cabinet. Should be a hoot to watch,lol

[MaDef]

Probably that a bunch of angry, bigoted racists voted in an angry, bigoted racist. You know, just calling it how it is.

In my opinion, Trump won last night, not because the U.S. is full of racists and bigots, but because her citizens are tired of professional politicians screwing things up. he is the first President since Eisenhower that hasn't held political office prior to being president.
The rest of the world may consider him the most powerful man on the planet there are two things you should remember:
1. "We the People" are still his boss.
2. Congress is still in place to keep Mr Trump from doing something
completely asinine.

[mapuc]

When I open subsim for the first time today, I saw that this thread had grown with about 12 pages. Toke me awhile to read most of the comment.

We all have our say about this election and the Candidate the American people have chosen as their next President, which I support( Which I also would have, if they had chosen Clinton)

Our press, many of our politicians and many of my FB-friends are in shock and can't understand that Trump won the election.

If those people had read between the lines, left the main street and toke a look in the alleys, they would have understood that there is a huge group of American and others living in USA, that is tired of the system and other things and these people see Trump as their savior.

Most funny in this election, was these Swedish journalist from the Swedish news paper aftonbladet. Before the election they told the reader that foreigners, especially those from Mexico was against Trump and will put their vote on Clinton-Now today they don't understand why so many of these foreigners had put their vote on Trump.

I have come to the conclusion that many of our people(journalist, politicians, ordinary people) do not have the knowledge about the psychology in the mind of an voter.

Keep also in mind that many people hold back what they think and show it first on the election day.

Markus

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Interesting... as of 10:36 EET (GMT+2) according to Google situation is as follows:

Donald Trump
279 electoral votes
59 505 613 votes

Hillary Clinton
228 electoral votes
59 727 805 votes

Loot at votes received, not electoral ones.

99% reporting (according to Google) but still 31 electoral votes unassigned. So atleast for now it appears that Hillary Clinton won in popular vote but Donald Trump in electoral votes.

Ofcourse electoral votes are only which finally matter so this is just an observation.

[Bilge_Rat]

Interesting... as of 10:36 EET (GMT+2) according to Google situation is as follows:

Donald Trump
279 electoral votes
59 505 613 votes

Hillary Clinton
228 electoral votes
59 727 805 votes

Loot at votes received, not electoral ones.

99% reporting (according to Google) but still 31 electoral votes unassigned. So atleast for now it appears that Hillary Clinton won in popular vote but Donald Trump in electoral votes. Ofcourse latter are those which finally matter so this is just merely an observation.

Trump is almost garanteed to also win Michigan and Arizona which will bring him up to 306 (279+16+11).

It does look like Clinton will rack up more votes, but she had huge majorities in California and New York, basically 4,000,000 votes more than Trump in those two states alone. The extra votes there are basically wasted because of the "winner-take-all" system.

Trump's votes were more evenly spread out and let's face it, he was also lucky. He won Florida+North Carolina+Pennsylvania, basically the three states that won him the election by only 365,000 votes combined.

In one of his articles, Nate Silver had said that Trump could win the electoral college while losing the popular votes, but he set the chance of that at less than 10%, as I recall.

Silver also wrote that the Latino vote might not have as much of an impact as everyone thought since 50% of Latino votes are in California and Texas, where their votes are essentially wasted since those two states were never in play.

[em2nought]

Exactly the reason I'm going to start job hunting today. I finally passed the GED (General Educational Development) test last month, and don't have an excuse to keep working a BS part-time job forever.

Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs is helping with scholarships for good paying blue collar jobs that actually exist http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/

[Wolferz]

Being the first rich guy to move into public housing after a black family vacated the premises.:O:


I think he should also make history by foregoing his presidential salary like Thomas Jefferson did.

[Onkel Neal]

Being the first rich guy to move into public housing after a black family vacated the premises.:O:


I think he should also make history by foregoing his presidential salary like Thomas Jefferson did.


I would be happier if we put him on commission: the lower he gets the deficit, the more he makes.

[mapuc]

I'm also thinking-what kind of America and what kind of a world will we see in about 3-4 years from now. Will it be the same as it is now-no development no in development in relationship between USA and other countries.

Markus

[Dan D]

Estonias government has collapsed, opening up the path for a pro-Russian government to come to power.

Everything is coming up Vladimir. :yeah:

All three Baltic states Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania celebrated 25 years of regained independence this year and have joined both the EU and Nato after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

I can't see a Russian military coup against them, the area is not as interesting as the Crimea and this would mean war. There are NATO troops, French, British, US soldiers there to prevent an attack. The German NATO contingent is in Poland not Baltic region btw, has to do with the German "special path", I guess, lots of heavy fighting between Russian and German troops in both world wars occured in the Baltic region, you find war memorials everywhere.

Also, they had a very difficult start into independence because their economies were totally reliant from the Russian economy. When Russia punished them with an economic boycott after independence, e.g. there was not enough food to feed the livestock because Russia stopped the supply with animal feed. Unlike the UK these countries value to be part of the EU with economic ties to the West.:D

Trump's presidency will not make a difference here.

[eddie]

eddie! Are you forgetting that everyone that can sway a vote is already a Republican? :yep:

Nice to know Republicans don't take money from Corporate America!!:haha:

[mapuc]

Not so long ago I heard from some person on tv(I had my back to it)saying following:

A Republican fall in line, while a Democrat fall in love-something like that.

Markus

[Platapus]

Not so long ago I heard from some person on tv(I had my back to it)saying following:

A Republican fall in line, while a Democrat fall in love-something like that.

Markus


I think it is pretty safe to disregard any statement that tries to categorize as large a group as Democrats and Republicans.

[Mr Quatro]

Interesting... as of 10:36 EET (GMT+2) according to Google situation is as follows:

Donald Trump
279 electoral votes
59 505 613 votes

Hillary Clinton
228 electoral votes
59 727 805 votes

Look at votes received, not electoral ones.

99% reporting (according to Google) but still 31 electoral votes unassigned. So atleast for now it appears that Hillary Clinton won in popular vote but Donald Trump in electoral votes.

Ofcourse electoral votes are only which finally matter so this is just an observation.

Yes, a good observation too ... this also happened to Bush back in the year 2000. People want to admin the electorial college, but I don't see that happening unless this electorial college ( this one meets in the first week of December to cast the actual votes) should happen to fumble the ball and cast their votes other than the one the people have dictated.

Trump is almost garanteed to also win Michigan and Arizona which will bring him up to 306 (279+16+11).

It does look like Clinton will rack up more votes, but she had huge majorities in California and New York, basically 4,000,000 votes more than Trump in those two states alone. The extra votes there are basically wasted because of the "winner-take-all" system.

Trump's votes were more evenly spread out and let's face it, he was also lucky. He won Florida+North Carolina+Pennsylvania, basically the three states that won him the election by only 365,000 votes combined.

In one of his articles, Nate Silver had said that Trump could win the electoral college while losing the popular votes, but he set the chance of that at less than 10%, as I recall.

Silver also wrote that the Latino vote might not have as much of an impact as everyone thought since 50% of Latino votes are in California and Texas, where their votes are essentially wasted since those two states were never in play.

Those figures are unreal, but correct. No one saw this coming, not the news media nor the polictical people.



I'm also thinking-what kind of America and what kind of a world will we see in about 3-4 years from now. Will it be the same as it is now-no development no in development in relationship between USA and other countries.

Markus

Don't let it get to you Markus ... "Don't look back, don't look forward, don't live yesterday for tomorrow?

Maybe we can learn from this experience of wasting our time with these people on TV and radio and news media that don't know anything. :yep:

Nice to know Republicans don't take money from Corporate America!!:haha:

Sorry, I forgot about the lobby people: http://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/finance-lobbying/the-influence-of-elites-interest-groups-and-average-voters-on-american-politics

Public policy in the United States is shaped by a wide variety of forces, from polls and election results to interest groups and institutions, both formal and informal. In addition to political parties, the influence of diverse and sometimes antagonistic political forces has been widely acknowledged by policymakers and evidenced by scholars, and journalists. In recent years concerns have been growing that deep-pocketed donors now play an unprecedented role in American politics — concerns supported by 2013 research from Harvard and the University of Sydney that found that for election integrity, the U.S. ranked 26th out of 66 countries analyzed.

Edit: PS I was bored so I read the whole article and this was at the end ...

They find that lobbying expenditures at the federal level are approximately five times those of political action committee (PAC) campaign contributions. For instance, in 2012, organized interest groups spent $3.5 billion annually lobbying the federal government, compared to approximately $1.55 billion in campaign contributions from PACs and other organizations over the two-year 2011-2012 election cycle.

[Onkel Neal]

http://i.imgur.com/0Arw1Uk.jpg

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I know so many of you are gloating disgustingly, but sooner than you think you're going to realize you really, really made a horrible mistake by voting in this guy.

You seem want to stick it to those "elites" who are better educated than you, speak more languages than you, make more money than you, etc., but you really have to set your emotions aside and think things through. The man's a vengeful sociopath, and him having access to the powers of the Presidency is a nightmare.

[Sailor Steve]

I think he should also make history by foregoing his presidential salary like Thomas Jefferson did.
Umm, Jefferson did not refuse his salary. He took every penny.

George Washington refused his salary as Commanding General during the Revolution, but then submitted an exorbitant expense bill when the war was over. He took his salary as President.

The only two Presidents to refuse their salaries were Herbert Hoover and John F. Kennedy, both of whom were rich and gave the money to charities.

Trump has already said he would not accept the salary as President. We'll see how that goes.

[agathosdaimon]

the election of trump doesnt really stick to the elites either, because it will be the now the GOP that has carte blanche to do whatever they want

and among the things they want to do are : get rid of the EPA - so goodbye laws holding businesses to account to stop them dumping their waste into waterways and residential areas whereever they please
get rid of the FDA - so goodbye to food safety regulation, and truthful food labelling, going to the supermarket will be a case of Russian Roulette in getting Salmonella
and if you think then a mass poisoning could result in a class action and that will keep the culprit in check, well teh GOP want to get rid of the ability for people to form class actions, so anyone trying to take a corporation to court will have to do it each individually

We can scrap any chance of any positive action to ameliorate the predicted 3 degree temp rise.
and i shudder to think what the GOP and Trump will do to muzzle any media that isnt 100% in support of them - to some extent the online far right/alt right will increase their operations. Will it come to scencs of police and military storming MSNBC? perhpas not yet, but if there is no means of resistance and legal checks and balances in place it could happen.
People like Trump also do not willing give up power once they get it and so more will be done to suppress the vote and pretty much reserve voting for just the party Loyalists.
A crazy creationist will prob go on the Supreme Court too, so you will have that now also.
I am not sure what roads the US Citizenry will have to hold the GOP Regime to account at all frankly.

[CaptainHaplo]

I know so many of you are gloating disgustingly, but sooner than you think you're going to realize you really, really made a horrible mistake by voting in this guy.

There were no good candidates in this election. While all people are flawed, the available 4 (3 in some states) were all horrible. For many it was much more the "lesser of 2 evils" than it was an embracing of a "trumpism".

You seem want to stick it to those "elites" who are better educated than you, speak more languages than you, make more money than you, etc., but you really have to set your emotions aside and think things through.

Meaning what? We should have elected a lying criminal who mocked her opponent for losing $1 Billion - when she lost $6 Billion, 4 American lives, 33,000 emails, multiple phones and computers? You assume that anyone that voted for Trump did so based on the "whitelash" - because it couldn't possibly be the crappy economy, the social "progressivism", the anti-religious hatred or things like skyrocketing medical insurance costs - right? And that doesn't even touch the fraud of the Clinton Foundation....

The man's a vengeful sociopath, and him having access to the powers of the Presidency is a nightmare.

You have proof of him being mentally ill? Or are you spouting things based on the media sound bites taken out of context, edited and focused on discrediting him?

So many people expect the absolute best or worst from this guy - he's human - he will screw up, he will make mistakes, he will learn - and he will be uplifted and vilified all based on people's political leanings.

[MaDef]

the election of trump doesnt really stick to the elites either, because it will be the now the GOP that has carte blanche to do whatever they want

and among the things they want to do are : get rid of the EPA - so goodbye laws holding businesses to account to stop them dumping their waste into waterways and residential areas whereever they please
get rid of the FDA - so goodbye to food safety regulation, and truthful food labelling, going to the supermarket will be a case of Russian Roulette in getting Salmonella
and if you think then a mass poisoning could result in a class action and that will keep the culprit in check, well teh GOP want to get rid of the ability for people to form class actions, so anyone trying to take a corporation to court will have to do it each individually

We can scrap any chance of any positive action to ameliorate the predicted 3 degree temp rise.
and i shudder to think what the GOP and Trump will do to muzzle any media that isnt 100% in support of them - to some extent the online far right/alt right will increase their operations. Will it come to scencs of police and military storming MSNBC? perhpas not yet, but if there is no means of resistance and legal checks and balances in place it could happen.
People like Trump also do not willing give up power once they get it and so more will be done to suppress the vote and pretty much reserve voting for just the party Loyalists.
A crazy creationist will prob go on the Supreme Court too, so you will have that now also.
I am not sure what roads the US Citizenry will have to hold the GOP Regime to account at all frankly.
seriously? :nope:

[agathosdaimon]

yes, you should look at what the Reps want to do and they will get to do it all and more now

they are already talking about appoint a climate skeptic to head dissolving the EPA... so thats already on the cards

Paul Ryan has a long list of things he wants to do and now he will get to do them with little resistance at all.

and on day one Trump is already presenting his "enemies" list - firstly going after the GOP senators who didnt give him full support,
and i guess after he has purged his party then the purge will turn to other parties and following that, to government institutions, the ones that remain and then on to the general population.

[August]

...

I have missed you Hap. :salute:

[Mr Quatro]

It's not over till the fat lady sings: http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/the-one-scenario-that-could-still-get-hillary-into-the-white-house/

For diehard Democrats holding out hope that they won’t have to live through a Donald Trump presidency, there is a last, incredibly long shot for them latch onto — a surprise twist in the Electoral College.

Though Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 200,000, Trump has won the minimum of 270 electoral votes necessary to be elected president. As of late Wednesday, he had 290 to Clinton’s 228.

According to the Constitution, chosen electors of the Electoral College are the real people who will vote for president, when they meet on Dec. 19 in their respective state capitals.

However, there is nothing stopping any of the electors from refusing to support the candidate to whom they were bound or abstaining from voting.


There’s even a name for it, becoming a “faithless elector.” :yep:

[Oberon]

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Not a chance. They'll fall in line and march like they're told to. :03:

[MaDef]

yes, you should look at what the Reps want to do and they will get to do it all and more now

they are already talking about appoint a climate skeptic to head dissolving the EPA... so thats already on the cards

Paul Ryan has a long list of things he wants to do and now he will get to do them with little resistance at all.

and on day one Trump is already presenting his "enemies" list - firstly going after the GOP senators who didnt give him full support,
and i guess after he has purged his party then the purge will turn to other parties and following that, to government institutions, the ones that remain and then on to the general population.where exactly are you reading this? And please, don't use some random keyboard commando's rant or some op-ed piece you found on the DU as your information source.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

According to Google there is still 31 electoral votes unassigned and that Arizona, Michigan and New Hampshire are states still undecided. Why is this taking so long in those three states?

[agathosdaimon]

where exactly are you reading this? And please, don't use some random keyboard commando's rant or some op-ed piece you found on the DU as your information source.


its on trumps new site https://www.greatagain.gov/policy/energy-independence.html

it is also what trump was saying in the race - that the EPA and FDA he would get rid of and most republicans if not all are for it

http://www.salon.com/2016/09/15/trump-targets-the-fda-food-police-calls-for-elimination-of-food-safety-regulations-in-new-tax-plan/


Regarding getting rid of the ability for people to form class actions,

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/01/class-action-republicans-volkswagen-vw-emissions



on Trumps new website the wall is still planned, obamacare will be abolished (very bad for all the people who actually rely on it making their medication and healthcare at least a little bit more affordable - it will be back to the right wing "if aint got the money then go die in a gutter " mentality)


pro coal and pro fossil fuels is new stance and any funding for climate change will be scrapped because as far trump and the GOP are concerned, it doesnt exist
- so runaway climate catastrophe is going to come sooner then ever - so that reign of death and destruction is what we and our children will have to deal with

There is little difference between the coming Trump Reign of Terrror and what here Pauline Hanson's One Nation party only dreams of being able to do. USA now gets to have a Pauline Hanson One Nation Party x10000




its pretty much the end of the world, i dont really know how else to describe it - and instead of trying to stave it off.. these dog headed dullards are just choosing instead to put bricks on the accelerator and drive this burning dump truck over the cliff.. and no, we dont get to watch and laugh, we are all on it whether we want to be or not.

[Jimbuna]

There’s even a name for it, becoming a “faithless elector.” :yep:

I should imagine if that happened the world would most likely witness the second US civil war.

[Sailor Steve]

There is little difference between the coming Trump Reign of Terrror and what here Pauline Hanson's One Nation party only dreams of being able to do. USA now gets to have a Pauline Hanson One Nation Party x10000
You haven't been here long enough to know about your opposite numbers. We have had hardcore right-wing members warning us about Obama's "reign of terror" for the past eight years. They are mostly dismissed as partisan shills who don't offer anything real in the way of discussion.

You can argue your case all you like, and you'll get some entertaining arguments back. That's part of the fun of debate on an open forum. That said, as soon as you start throwing out hardcore rhetoric from either side of the political spectrum, and start using phrases like "reign of terror" before the new administration is even in office, you start marginalizing yourself.

its pretty much the end of the world, i dont really know how else to describe it - and instead of trying to stave it off.. these dog headed dullards are just choosing instead to put bricks on the accelerator and drive this burning dump truck over the cliff.. and no, we dont get to watch and laugh, we are all on it whether we want to be or not.
That's the kind of thing that's been said by the losing side of every election for the past two hundred years. No, it's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of America. we've survived worse, and we'll survive again.

[MGR1]

On a more light hearted note:

"Aberdeenshire business owner wins presidential election (http://www.buchanobserver.co.uk/news/aberdeenshire-business-owner-wins-presidential-election-1-4282745)" from the Buchan Observer.

Mike.:03:

[Onkel Neal]

One thing is for sure, the mainstream media (and alt media as well) are loving this. Now the Presidency of the US has become a reality show, with saturation coverage. :k_confused:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/41768881.jpg

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

its pretty much the end of the world, i dont really know how else to describe it - and instead of trying to stave it off.. these dog headed dullards are just choosing instead to put bricks on the accelerator and drive this burning dump truck over the cliff.. and no, we dont get to watch and laugh, we are all on it whether we want to be or not.That sounds quite familiar, you know why? Because I heard very similar "argumentation" in Tuesday after Tampere city council decided to build light rail.

Yes, you read it correctly: light rail line. That is tram/streetcar which mostly operates on its own right of way. That about 15 kilometres long double tracked rail line triggered similar prophecies of doom and gloom as we are reading right now.

[STEED]

One thing is for sure, the mainstream media (and alt media as well) are loving this. Now the Presidency of the US has become a reality show, with saturation coverage. :k_confused:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/41768881.jpg

Yea the media love to milk it good and hard. It will go on and on and on as long as people keep slagging one another off. :03:

Hey here is a idea lets drop it right now and see how long it takes the media to follow. :)

[Mr Quatro]

I should imagine if that happened the world would most likely witness the second US civil war.

Funny you should say that Jim ... of course they would, but that made me think of a prophecy from a gentelman I knew named Dumitru Duduman from Romaina.

He died in 1996 I think ... here's a youtube video about him. The odd thing is that he said America would be in a war in the middle of America (he prophesied this more than once) and that America would burn from a sneak attack by Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fGq279mE3Y

If you think I am being like 'chicken little' ... I am not.

Discern and learn or judge and burn. I always say ...

[Platapus]

I know so many of you are gloating disgustingly, but sooner than you think you're going to realize you really, really made a horrible mistake by voting in this guy.




Why don't we wait until Trump actually does something wrong before claiming that anyone made a horrible mistake?

[Platapus]

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Not a chance. They'll fall in line and march like they're told to. :03:

Many states actually have laws that require the elector to vote according to the results of that state's election.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Many states actually have laws that require the elector to vote according to the results of that state's election.What kind of consequences there will be if they still choose to do as they please?

[Platapus]

What kind of consequences there will be if they still choose to do as they please?


That would depend on the state. Since the State's Secretary of State has to certify the vote, perhaps the offending elector would be replaced and a new vote conducted. All depends on how the laws are written by the individual state.

[Mr Quatro]

What kind of consequences there will be if they still choose to do as they please?

It has only happened once I think when someone voted for the VP to replace the elected president. Not sure anything can be done.

https://www.coursehero.com/file/p2r8b5p/29-states-have-laws-implemented-to-stop-electors-from-voting-as-they-please/

29 states have laws implemented to stop electors from voting as they please. • This means that 21 states do not enforce any kind of law upon their electors, which can lead to many unjust votes. • These uncalled for votes can completely mess up an election and change what the public wanted

[August]

What kind of consequences there will be if they still choose to do as they please?


If it changed the outcome of the election it could touch off a civil war. Worst case scenario but a real possibility.

[mapuc]

If it changed the outcome of the election it could touch off a civil war. Worst case scenario but a real possibility.

That's why I asked in another thread if it have ever happened that those electoral(forgot the real name) have changed their vote

´cause I have a feeling about this upcoming election-Which I hope is nothing but a false feeling.

Markus

[Platapus]

In this century we have had two faithless electors. One in 2004, which may have been a mistake (they voted for the vice president candidate for the president position) and one in in 2000 who decided not to vote for any candidate.

In the 20th century we had a total of 15, with 8 of them occurring in the 1912 election.

But a faithless elector is not always a bad guy. The 8 in the 1912 election changed their vote because the candidate died.

So in actuality, we only had 7 Faithless Electors that actually voted in contrast to whom they were pledged to. Not bad for 100 years.

Almost interesting trivia. The one and only electoral vote for a libertarian presidential candidate was cast by a faithless elector in 1972.

Didja know that an elector even cast a vote for someone not running for President? In 1976, a faithless elector from Washington State cast the one and only vote for Ronald Reagan even though Reagan was not running for the office!

[Skybird]

The Bulgarian Baba Vanga predicted that the 44th president would be the last president of the US. Seen that way Trump can not be certain that he will be inaugurated on January 20th.

:D

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/baba-vanga-obama-last-us-president-prediction-what-does-it-mean/news-story/a108e14db6091679687f94a60e28311c

Mulder, your case.

[Gray Lensman]

<snip>

Didja know that an elector even cast a vote for someone not running for President? In 1976, a faithless elector from Washington State cast the one and only vote for Ronald Reagan even though Reagan was not running for the office!

Actually incorrect... Ronald Reagan did run for the Presidency in 1976 and was only squeaked out by a whisker in the 1976 Republican Convention as the Republican nominee. So the elector was casting a vote for someone who actually was running for president during the nomination process.

edit> After Ford's loss to Jimmy Carter and then the total screw up of Carter's administration especially concerning the Iran Hostage crisis, this set Reagan up for the comeback and win in 1980.

[Buddahaid]

And what about the Maori All Blacks? It's just tooo weird how this all just comes across as the sports page.

[agathosdaimon]

i hope truly that my alarm is unfounded but the wave of hate crimes now and the ridiculous things trump just tweeted about the protesters all being paid professionials does not bode well for faith in trump allowing freedom of assembly to continue once he has full power. I have friends in the us, neuroscientists working on the west coast who are part of the protests and they are certainly not paid to do so.

i know that it can be a case of boy who cried wolf, but the scary things are happening now - you are going to have Sarah Palin with cabinet positions, and Steve Bannon - eek, and we all know the hard line hate mongering of breitbart.com
and just as worse will be the reversal of all your regulatory functions, you know the laws, that actually ensure food safety, clean air and waterways. i dare say the voting rights act will be further gutted so as to make impossible for blacks and minorities to vote, and trump and the people he has are very anti-freedom of the press and will go after any media that criticises them at all. I think the USA will go the way of Russia but probably worse, because as dictatorial as Putin is, there still seems to be some semblance of political process and people have some freedom (though if you are not a heterosexual person then you are out of luck)

It sounds unbelievable but it is what can happen now quite easily and i think most alarming also is the entry now of creationists into vital functions of government, so any science that isnt just for defence or something will probably be forbidden.

I am reminded of a great print by Goya which carries the title, The sleep of reason produces monsters.

[u crank]

I have friends in the us, neuroscientists working on the west coast who are part of the protests and they are certainly not paid to do so.

Ok, this is the part I don't understand. Why are they protesting? Do they think the election was rigged? Were they not allowed to vote? Do they think their vote is more valuable that other votes? Do they think protesting will change the outcome? I don't get it.

[Torplexed]

We're hitting a whole new level of stupid over this election. Some idiots are submitting petitions to secede from the union. Good luck on your own, Oregon. Hopefully, the wheat and hops exports will keep your economy afloat. :doh:

http://mynorthwest.com/456467/oregonians-ask-to-secede-from-us/

[Jimbuna]

If it changed the outcome of the election it could touch off a civil war. Worst case scenario but a real possibility.

A long shot but a possibility.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2445774&postcount=3919

[Oberon]

Daesh on the other hand are over the moon at a Trump victory:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2016/nov/10/isis-al-qaeda-hail-trump-win-say-dark-times-ahead-for-us-1537101.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/583e3c51-6dbc-39a7-96d5-54de63170169/ss_islamic-state-celebrates.html

[Onkel Neal]

i hope truly that my alarm is unfounded but the wave of hate crimes now and the ridiculous things trump just tweeted about the protesters all being paid professionials does not bode well for faith in trump allowing freedom of assembly to continue once he has full power. I have friends in the us, neuroscientists working on the west coast who are part of the protests and they are certainly not paid to do so.

i know that it can be a case of boy who cried wolf, but the scary things are happening now...

Actually, you sound like the member here who was gleefully predicting the collapse of the American economy and stock market right after the election. Sounds like you are wishing more that warning.

[Oberon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_X7gwUoAA11MP.jpg

:hmmm:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41YBu8vgBGUHmGGI/giphy.gif

[u crank]

Speaking of the media...I found this interesting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/

You’d think that Trump’s victory – the one we all discounted too far in advance – would lead to a certain newfound humility in the political press. But of course that’s not how it works. To us, speaking broadly, our diagnosis was still basically correct. The demons were just stronger than we realized.

This is all a “whitelash,” you see. Trump voters are racist and sexist, so there must be more racists and sexists than we realized. Tuesday night’s outcome was not a logic-driven rejection of a deeply flawed candidate named Clinton; no, it was a primal scream against fairness, equality, and progress. Let the new tantrums commence!

As a direct result, we get it wrong with greater frequency. Out on the road, we forget to ask the right questions. We can’t even imagine the right question.

It's almost like ...they don't know ...what they are doing. Wonder if this will change any time soon?

[Bilge_Rat]

there is a petition going around to have the electors switch their votes and elect Clinton based on the fact that she won the popular vote, so far it has 2.3 million signatures.

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

good luck with that. :ping:

everyone knew the rules going in and Trump won fair and square.

Any attempt to overturn that would be seen for what it really is, an unconstitutional coup d'etat.

turnout for the election barely broke 50%. If you don't bother to even vote, you can't cry about the results afterwards.

[Oberon]

I guess that petition will be as effective as the one that went round after Brexit calling for a second referendum...which ironically was made by a Brexiter before the results were announced with the assumption that Remain would have won.

[Platapus]

Actually incorrect... Ronald Reagan did run for the Presidency in 1976 and was only squeaked out by a whisker in the 1976 Republican Convention as the Republican nominee. So the elector was casting a vote for someone who actually was running for president during the nomination process.




Since electors are only supposed to vote for the person already nominated, and not just tried for the nomination, it is not incorrect. :03:

[Mr Quatro]

I guess that petition will be as effective as the one that went round after Brexit calling for a second referendum...which ironically was made by a Brexiter before the results were announced with the assumption that Remain would have won.

Did you know that the elector's that do cross over the line and vote for Hillary instead of Trump will face a stiff fine and did you know that this petition promises the cross overs ... the petition will pay that fine for them? :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Did you know that the elector's that do cross over the line and vote for Hillary instead of Trump will face a stiff fine and did you know that this petition promises the cross overs ... the petition will pay that fine for them? :hmmm:

:hmmm: Interesting...but still...maybe if it wasn't Hillary, but a choice between toeing the party line and facing a fine, party persecution and a massive public fallout.
They won't budge. If I were a betting man I'd be willing to put money on that one.

[em2nought]

Did you know that the elector's that do cross over the line and vote for Hillary instead of Trump will face a stiff fine and did you know that this petition promises the cross overs ... the petition will pay that fine for them? :hmmm:

I'm sure they'd all get their thirty pieces of silver, and then $ome. :03:

[Gray Lensman]

Since electors are only supposed to vote for the person already nominated, and not just tried for the nomination, it is not incorrect. :03:

Depends on what the laws of that particular state was at the time. So yes it is still incorrect... There have been numerous examples of electors voting for non-official nominees over the course of US History. Google it.

edit> Not sure about this year, but as of 2012, only 27 states (out of 57? LOL) were bound to cast their vote for a specific candidate by state law or by pledges to their political parties

edit2> In the case of Washington (state) this year their law provides for


If an elector votes for a person not nominated by the party for which they are an elector, they are subject to a civil penalty of up to $1,000.


not much of a penalty is it?

[August]

You guys have to understand that these electors are not just some people hired at random.

Take my state for example. We have 11 electoral votes in in Massachusetts. Long before the election campaign even started there were 11 Democrat electors and 11 Republican electors appointed by their respective parties. Usually they are party bigwigs or other functionaries.

Once the election results became known (about 2 seconds after the polls opened) the 11 Republicans were dismissed and the job given to the 11 Democrats.

So Trumps 290 (or more likely 315 once Michigan finally gets it's act together) electors are all staunch Republicans just like Clintons 228 are staunch Democrats. Now perhaps there's a Nevertrumper or two among them and perhaps they're willing to buck the system but they'd hardly change their vote to Clinton of all people and their numbers are hardly likely to be great enough to change the outcome.

[Oberon]

Meanwhile the back-pedalling has begun:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37953528

I wonder, in the end, who will hate him more...the liberals or the right? :hmmm:

[Gray Lensman]

Meanwhile the back-pedalling has begun:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37953528

I wonder, in the end, who will hate him more...the liberals or the right? :hmmm:

This is an example of an outsider poster kneejerking before getting the details.

Here's the details.

The parts he likes about the Obamacare law are popular with both democrats and republicans

to wit:

1. Insurers NOT being able to drop people because of pre-existing conditions, but he allows for "appropriate" premium charges to be defined

2. People being able to keep their kids on the insurance policy if they choose, up to the kid's age of 26... Again, allowing for "appropriate premium charges to be defined

Both of these provisions are popular with both sides of the Obamacare argument.

edit> clarification- you can argue how it's done... repeal and replace,,, amend, etc.. but those two provisions will be kept no matter how it's accomplished... wondering who's going to hate him more is an overblown add-on to your statement. I voted for him and if he keeps those provisions I'll perfectly understand the reasoning for it and I'm not going to HATE him for being the reasonable negotiator that we voted for.

[Rockstar]

I guess I could read the BBC or I could read these racist words of hate originating from the pit of hell itself.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform/

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

2.Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

We'll see how it goes. Honestly though I just dont think the American people will put up this kinda hate.

[Oberon]

He's going to annoy some people who wanted ALL of Obamacare to be repealed and removed, not just bits of it.

“And I can say all of my employees are having a tremendous problem with Obamacare. You folks, this is another group. Is that a correct statement? You look at what they’re going through with their health care is horrible because of Obamacare. So we’ll repeal it and replace it. But this is about jobs. And we have thousands of employees in Florida.”

"To repeal something — usually a law, ordinance or public policy — is to take it back. For example, dog lovers might want the town council to repeal the law that says residents can have no more than four dogs."

Pence said:

"He actually, get this, I’m not making this up. President Obama last week compared Obamacare to the Samsung Galaxy 7 phones that have spontaneously burst into flames. Did you hear about that? He actually — I got a quote — he actually said, ‘When one of these companies comes out with a new smartphone and it has a few bugs, what do they do? They fix it, they upgrade it. Unless it catches fire, then they pull it off the market.’ Well, what a coincidence Mr. President, because that’s exactly what we’re gonna do with Obamacare. We’re gonna pull it off the market. We’re gonna repeal it lock, stock and barrel."

"Obamacare will never work. It's very bad, very bad health insurance."

So...we've gone from "Obamacare will be repealed and replaced" to "Obamacare will be amended, or repealed and replaced."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37953528

"The challenge for the president-elect is that the Obamacare features he praises - such as its mandate that insurers cover pre-existing medical conditions - are made possible by portions of the law he has condemned, like requiring all Americans to obtain insurance.
Keeping the law's carrots while abandoning its sticks could prove difficult."


And can we stop with the 'foreigner' BS? I don't recall Europeans doing this to you lot when Brexit happened so kindly return the favour.

[Skybird]

This is an example of an outsider poster kneejerking before getting the details.


Not certain on that. Trump is this kind of guy who wants to win at any cost. His business career made him rich, but it was not successful in the meaning of that his believers and investors always won, too - 75 court cases are currently running against him, some say as a "producing" business man he was a failure. He just ,managed to get away with it and nevertheless making a stinking rich profit. When he wanted to becme president, he probably saw form early on that he could not win nomination and later presidency by playing fair and nice and polite. So he started to throw the mud it needed to let him win. He did what was necessary to secure this objective, and he did not care for what was needed, he just did it and accepted to get dirty.

That is no excuse, nor an attack, I just want to illustrate what I consider is key to underdstanding how he ticks. He does what he must to win the match he decided to embark on. No. Matter. What. What use is it - from his POV - if you be the nice guy, and achieve none of your objectives? Thats the definition of a loser, in his book. A kind, a nice, a well-liked loser. But still a loser. I canot say I would totally oppose this.

I assume the earlier we all and the world leaders understand how he ticks, the easier it will be to get along with him and to decide where to make calls against him - and where better not. I mean he is no intellectual, but a gambler. He spoke the language needed to make him popular. He stuck to his principles of success as described in his books. He was stubborn. He did not care to swim against all currents. He did not care for initially being alone. He wanted, he did, he got.

One can like this, or not. But one thing cannot be disputed: he won the race.

When I compare to the EU way of things: endless pathetic debate and word monsters, endless tactical games and concerns and endless babbling and considering and bla and bla and blablabla. And in the end - we see a pitiful result, often a failure, a display of the EU's discrepancy between claim, and reality.

The interesting thign will be how much further he can get by this way - or whether he will adapt to the chnaged situation. It seems the latter. And that indeed can make his voters angry. But as I said earlier: the reality he has to deal with, is the same like for his predecessors, and he needs still some water if he wants to boil his tea or coffee. Poker players would remind you that in principle - you cannot bluff in poker endlessly.

[Gray Lensman]

<snip>

And can we stop with the 'foreigner' BS? I don't recall Europeans doing this to you lot when Brexit happened so kindly return the favour.

And, I don't recall any thread where US posters portended to KNOW SO MUCH on the how/why of the Brexit vote in the way that your posts come across.

edit> I tell you what... since this thread really serves no purpose to me anymore and I live in the middle of the country and see the real truth of what is going on over here... I'll just self ban myself from this thread much like I do with main stream media stations over here and you can continue doing your expert thing.

[Oberon]

edit> I tell you what... since this thread really serves no purpose to me anymore and I live in the middle of the country and see the real truth of what is going on over here... I'll just self ban myself from this thread much like I do with main stream media stations over here and you can continue doing your expert thing.

Ok then, if you insist. :hmmm:

[THE_MASK]

I wonder how many people that don't like Trump didn't vote ?

[Platapus]

I wonder how many people that don't like Trump didn't vote ?


We had 79% voter turnout at my precinct. That was by far the highest turnout I have seen.

[Torplexed]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_X7gwUoAA11MP.jpg

:hmmm:


The second post is supposed to go down the memory hole at the Ministry of Truth. Practice your doublethink, brother Oberon. :D

You do get the strong sense that handlers are revising or following up his Twitter posts to keep the PR damage to a minimum.

[Oberon]

The second post is supposed to go down the memory hole at the Ministry of Truth. Practice your doublethink, brother Oberon. :D

You do get the strong sense that handlers are revising or following up his Twitter posts to keep the PR damage to a minimum.

Wait...does this mean that 2016 is actually Room 101? :hmmm:

[Mr Quatro]

Okay close the thread ... no one has posted in over (12) hours :D

[Bleiente]

I really do not care about this topic, so I apologize.
Nevertheless, I would like to disclose my thoughts.

I myself consider Trump to be an extreme factor of uncertainty, strictly speaking dangerous (from the outset it was a parasite and exploiter to the simple man), so his political interests certainly do not satisfy the simple as well as the straight man ... it is by no means better for the middle class go.

This swindler is only going to adorn herself and will foment new wars until your country has finally bleached out, but he is a rich one.

If something happened with us in Germany, I would buy for expensive money an Artic Warfare ...

[August]

I wonder if the Democrats are regretting their anti-gun stance. That alone cost them up to 55 million votes.

[AndyJWest]

I wonder if the Democrats are regretting their anti-gun stance. That alone cost them up to 55 million votes.

Do you have a source for that?

[Oberon]

I doubt it, I mean even if they softened their stance it would probably not be enough for the NRA. It's probably just written off as a lost cause.

[August]

Do you have a source for that?

Don't need one. There's at least 55 million gun owners in this country and we are the most single issue folks I know.

[August]

I doubt it, I mean even if they softened their stance it would probably not be enough for the NRA. It's probably just written off as a lost cause.

The NRA doesn't dictate how gun owners vote and the NRA doesn't get to decide for us what stance is soft enough or not.

[AndyJWest]

Don't need one. There's at least 55 million gun owners in this country and we are the most single issue folks I know.

So you are suggesting that these 55 million gun owners would all have voted for Clinton if she'd been pro-gun? Seems a little unlikely to me.

[August]

So you are suggesting that these 55 million gun owners would all have voted for Clinton if she'd been pro-gun? Seems a little unlikely to me.

No Andy you'll note that I said "up to" not "all".

Are you suggesting that she would still not have received any gun owner votes if she was pro gun? If so you don't understand us as a group very well.

[AndyJWest]

No Andy you'll note that I said "up to" not "all".

Are you suggesting that she would still not have received any gun owner votes if she was pro gun? If so you don't understand us as a group very well.

So the number is actually anywhere between 0 and 55 million voters then? Not much to go on, really. Making your original claim rather pointless. And personally, I prefer politicians who at least make an effort towards advocating policies they actually support, rather than changing their 'opinions' on significant matters in order to win votes.

[August]

So the number is actually anywhere between 0 and 55 million voters then? Not much to go on, really. Making your original claim rather pointless. And personally, I prefer politicians who at least make an effort towards advocating policies they actually support, rather than changing their 'opinions' on significant matters in order to win votes.

Hey believe what you want but if you think her gun control stance didn't cost her a large chunk of votes then you're living in the same fantasy world as the Democratic party.

[AndyJWest]

Hey believe what you want but if you think her gun control stance didn't cost her a large chunk of votes then you're living in the same fantasy world as the Democratic party.

Oh, I see, this is another 'anyone who doesn't agree with my personal opinions is deluded' discussion. Sorry, but I've got better things to do than engage in such facile 'debates'.

[August]

Oh, I see, this is another 'anyone who doesn't agree with my personal opinions is deluded' discussion. Sorry, but I've got better things to do than engage in such facile 'debates'.

Just curious. What would it take for you to believe that gun owners wouldn't have voted for Clinton if she wasn't anti-gun? What evidence would pass the Andy West Test?

[AndyJWest]

Just curious. What would it take for you to believe that gun owners wouldn't have voted for Clinton if she wasn't anti-gun? What evidence would pass the Andy West Test?

So far you haven't given us any evidence of anything. If you can point to an opinion poll which provides specific data demonstrating that a significant proportion of the electorate would have voted differently had Clinton taken another line on gun control, we will have something to discuss: though again, it has to be preferable to elect people on the basis of what they actually believe, rather on the basis of policies chosen purely to win votes. Not that Clinton failed to win votes anyway. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the electoral college system, it cannot be denied that she had considerable support - and quite possibly at least part of that support was due to the position she has taken regarding firearms regulation. Accordingly, it is at least possible that changing her position might have lost her votes - it could certainly have been represented as surrendering principles to expediency.

[August]

So far you haven't given us any evidence of anything. If you can point to an opinion poll which provides specific data demonstrating that a significant proportion of the electorate would have voted differently had Clinton taken another line on gun control, we will have something to discuss

Well like I said feel free to believe what you wish. I hope the Democratic party continues to believe it too because it costs them up to 55 million votes.

[AndyJWest]

Well like I said feel free to believe what you wish. I hope the Democratic party continues to believe it too because it costs them up to 55 million votes.

I don't need your permission to believe anything. And I will continue to believe that you have entirely failed to deliver the slightest evidence of anything, making your '55 million' claim the worthless bluster it clearly is.

[August]

I don't need your permission to believe anything. And I will continue to believe that you have entirely failed to deliver the slightest evidence of anything, making your '55 million' claim the worthless bluster it clearly is.


Right, there's absolutely no indication at all that gun owners even voted in the election, let alone that they didn't actually vote for Clinton in droves so just keep believing it, or not, your choice. I'm sure the Republicans will appreciate the fact that they don't have to fight for those 55 million votes.

But just remember this (again your choice or not) if you and the Democrats still haven't seen the writing on the wall by 2018 then expect a repeat of this years debacle.

[CaptainHaplo]

I have missed you Hap. :salute:

Glad to be back, my friend. :)

[CaptainHaplo]

I guess I could read the BBC or I could read these racist words of hate originating from the pit of hell itself.

Now Rockstar - let's examine these "racist words of hate" as you describe them...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform/ Thank you for providing a direct source, btw.

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to. Can you explain how not making people buy something they don't want is "racist"?

2.Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

In what way is increasing competition among big insurers an example of "hate" or racism? Is it your contention that lower costs for a product somehow harms minorities?

3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.Insuring those who would otherwise not be able to afford it -please explain how that is "hate" or "racists".

4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.How is allowing an individual to do something with their own money without interference (or theft) by the government "hateful" or racist? Can you point out where this only would apply to non-minorities?

5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure. Giving people options to save their own money - how racist. Apparently only "white" people want to save money? Do minorities hate money - and thus giving them the ability to save money is hatemongering?

6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources. How is more "local control" a hateful thing? Are you saying that getting rid of fraud is going to disproportionately affect minorities? If so - that would mean that YOU are being racist by saying that minorities are more likely to commit fraud. Kindly explain....

7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers. So making needed medication more affordable is hateful and racist? Pray tell, how?

We'll see how it goes. Honestly though I just dont think the American people will put up this kinda hate. Well, if you can point out the hate and racism in these points, then perhaps it can be debated. However, most people will fail to see any hatred or racism in these ideas.

Will you rise to the challenge and debate substance, or will you simply spew vile accusations against the positions with no viable or defensible reason?

[Rockstar]

Meanwhile the back-pedalling has begun.

http://www.iagreetosee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tax-day-bush-no-new-taxes.png

[Sailor Steve]

...
That is a very poor example. In fact, during his Presidency, George Bush Sr opposed any tax increases. After a lot of wrangling over the 1990 budget Congress told Bush that if he signed off on that one tax increase they would make cuts elsewhere. They didn't.

[Rockstar]

Sorry, It wasnt my intent to call Bush a back peddler. Rather only to illustrate an example of a politician saying things to the public to get elected. Then for whatever the reason not make good on that promise. His fault or not it hurt his chance for a second term. Hope Trump thought about that before he made all these promises. Contrary to popular belief we dont allow emperors or dictators in the United States. Trump has his work cut out for him to get support for his campaign promises

[Platapus]

Sorry, It wasnt my intent to call Bush a back peddler. Rather only to illustrate an example of a politician saying things to the public to get elected. Then for whatever the reason not make good on that promise. His fault or not it hurt his chance for a second term. Hope Trump thought about that before he made all these promises. Contrary to popular belief we dont allow emperors or dictators in the United States. Trump has his work cut out for him to get support for his campaign promises

I thin the GOP will be very worried about the mid term elections. It would not be the first time a president loses either house after being elected with control over both of them.

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry, It wasnt my intent to call Bush a back peddler. Rather only to illustrate an example of a politician saying things to the public to get elected. Then for whatever the reason not make good on that promise. His fault or not it hurt his chance for a second term.
Sorry if I misunderstood. Good point.

[Oberon]

I read this earlier:

Let me provide the following scenario. It has been a rough past decade for the world having seen economic stagnation, the decline of international institutions, presidential disgraces, and the current Democrat president's attempts to spread democracy in the Middle East backfire and spread Islamic extremism. Out of this climate, an aging celebrity emerges to run as the Republican Party's candidate for President of the United States and promises to "Make America Great Again". He is not treated very seriously at first and is widely regarded as a joke - the tribune of scary reactionaries. He is also accused of as being something of a race-baiter and a defender of the lunatic fringe that regards the political establishment as members of a sinister international cabal that seeks to undermine US sovereignty. The celebrity candidate also acts highly unprofessionally but is loved by the Republican base and soon sweeps the Republican primaries. After winning the Republican nomination, he faces a highly uninspiring Democratic candidate who blasts the outsider populist's lack of experience. Public dislike of both candidates promotes an unusually high amount of support for a third-party libertarian candidate. Still, in the last few weeks lead-up the election, the Democratic candidate seems firmly in a secure lead of 6 - 9%. Then the only poll that matters comes out an the outsider wins a shock victory due to the sheer enthusiasm of his supporters.

The year is 1980 and Ronald Reagan has beaten Jimmy Carter for the office of POTUS.

[Onkel Neal]

No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

I can agree to that if we agree that anyone who decides not to buy health insurance can not expect any medical services unless they pay in advance, no more medical care for the irresponsible and having we the tax payers pick up the bill. That's a big part of the reason health care costs have increased so much.

Meanwhile:
President-elect Donald Trump told “60 Minutes” that up to 3 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. are “criminal” and pledged to deport or incarcerate them.

I'm starting to like this guy :D

[Skybird]

https://twitter.com/jbillinson/status/796925115669811200/photo/1

:har:

https://twitter.com/Crutnacker/status/797644298393100288/photo/1

:D

https://twitter.com/Sammart123/status/797542176309669888/photo/1

:haha:

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-865304-breitwandaufmacher-mdkx-865304.jpg

[Oberon]

I love the JObama memes that are coming out of this.

[August]

http://i65.tinypic.com/15zjoco.jpg

[Rockstar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zT0Rjc6jKCg

[CaptainHaplo]

I can agree to that if we agree that anyone who decides not to buy health insurance can not expect any medical services unless they pay in advance, no more medical care for the irresponsible and having we the tax payers pick up the bill. That's a big part of the reason health care costs have increased so much.

I totally agree.
I also think that Plyler v. Doe got it wrong and that illegal immigrant children are not owed an education in the US at the cost of the US Taxpayer.

I could go on but....
LOL

Oh - and @ Rockstar - it appears you actually meant the post I responded to as sarcastic - so I'll just leave those points out there for the lefties to contemplate. :salute:

[em2nought]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zT0Rjc6jKCg

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha, Bahahahahahahahahahahaha, snort wheez, bahahahahahahahahahahahahah ROTFLMAO :up:

[Onkel Neal]

haha, they missed Pennsylvania, that was one that flipped me out.

Yeah, the laugh's on us, I reassured my daughter back in Aug 2015 that Trump was not a serious candidate and had no chance to the win the nomination, let alone the Presidency. I guess it's time to sit back and see what happens next.

[Skybird]

haha, they missed Pennsylvania, that was one that flipped me out.

Yeah, the laugh's on us, I reassured my daughter back in Aug 2015 that Trump was not a serious candidate and had no chance to the win the nomination, let alone the Presidency.
He who laughs last, laughs best. :D

I guess it's time to sit back and see what happens next.
http://cdn.wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/nuclear_blast-798x350.gif

"I won, I won...!" :yeah: [Chorus of angels singing Tr(i)umpant giggles]

[Rockin Robbins]

Has anyone thought about the major implication of Donald Trump's election? What is he? Well, he's a builder. He's built big projects. He's made them work when others couldn't and when others predicted that he would complete over budget and bust the schedule wide open. In some celebrated cases he's pulled buffaloes out of the hat ahead of schedule and under budget.

This wouldn't mean a thing except for the first words out of his mouth in his acceptance speech. He wants to rebuild our inner cities and make them healthy and profitable. And it isn't difficult to figure out how he would go about it.

We have many large companies who have been paid by our short-sighted government to fire Americans and go overseas. This was done by making the US the highest taxing country in the world, or close to it, for corporations. There are several things horribly wrong with that strategy. First of all it is impossible for corporations to pay taxes. They must produce a profit to continue living. Every single penny a corporation is taxed, plus expenses related to the taxation, plus a profit, must be passed on to the customers of that corporation. There is no choice but the death of the corporation.

At some point that raises the price of the product to the point that an overseas company which has lower taxes can undercut the price of the American company and they have two choices: move overseas or die. We have trillions of dollars overseas right now in the hand of people, who if they had their choice, would rather be here. Our government has made that not a doable thing.

But if Trump uses the carrot and the stick he can bring these companies back. If he's tough, and we know he tends to be, he can get them to relocate here in the inner cities he wants to rebuild. Okay, XYZ company, if you move back to the US, agree to stay here for 30 years and relocate to Detroit, we'll give you 10 years with no federal income taxes at all. And an additional 20 at a 10% tax rate. In return you must locate your headquarters and primary manufacturing facilities in the city of Detroit. In addition, you must use the present citizens of Detroit to constitute X% or a minimum number of your workforce. Revitalizing a city is revitalizing its people, not just its buildings.

Imagine if he could get 100 corporations or 500 corporations to do that to decayed cities all over the US, especially in the rust belt. Imagine if all those protesters who hate Trump were suddenly offered jobs, became prosperous and there was a new burst of life in our dead cities. Trump is uniquely capable of accomplishing this.

Now look at an electoral map of the country, broken down not by state but by county. Where do Democratic votes come from? They come from the withered husks for cities which have suffered for 50 or 75 years of Democratic dole: welfare, assisted housing, food stamps, all those things that say "Poor failures, incapable of decency, we enlightened people will toss you a couple of crumbs so you can live long enough to vote for us in the next election." If those people are downtrodden it is because they have been trampled by insulting crumbs: welfare, food stamps, assisted housing and never have had the opportunity to actually succeed.

Well they're no different than you and I. If we lived in those conditions of oppression we would mainly act the same way they do. They don't need handouts, they need OPPORTUNITY. We need to quit measuring the success of government by the number of people on welfare, assisted housing and food stamps and start measuring success by the number of people who no longer need those crumbs. We've tried handouts for 75 years. It doesn't work. It will not work. It cannot work. Time to turn the page.

Do you see the danger? If the Dems and the inner city dwellers decide to just hate Trump and write him off as some cartoon character villian and Trump does what he says he will, Those inner cities will NEVER vote for a Democrat again. The Democrats would be the ones who ABANDONED them. Their party is in grave danger of ceasing to exist sooner rather than later.

I think that would be bad for everyone. We need at least two healthy parties to keep each other honest. It isn't a case of Republican bad, Democrat good, or the other way around. Evil is an equal opportunity employer, respecting no organization, no government, no corporation, no church, no charity. Anywhere we leave an opening, good organizations will be perverted to do bad things. But a multiplicity of healthy organizations doing parallel functions keeps evil from winning, just as a multiplicity of 51 popular elections and the electoral college makes the presidential election much more difficult to steal. You can steal votes, but the electoral college makes it impossible to know which votes you should steal and makes it very unlikely that voter fraud will alter the results of a presidential election.

So what is the legitimate function of the Democrats in this situation? First, to jump on board and insist that Trump commit a major effort to save our inner cities. They need to sign on to the prospect of using tax breaks to buy overseas expat corporations to come back home. They need to insist that Trump keep his nose to the grindstone.

They need to think about what could possibly go wrong with this plan. Well I can think of some that only the Democrats can guard against. First, there is the chance that corporations will glom up the tax breaks and never get around to doing what they said. They might import all their workers and stiff the residents of the cities, like happened when all the Casinos went to Atlantic City. They hired no one who lived there. Property values were forced so high that people couldn't afford to live in free and clear real estate. Their only choice was to see out and move to another city. Democrats can watch and make sure that these companies are bound by contracts with sharp teeth which would bite hard if the companies decided to abandon their civic duty to revitalize the communities they move to.

Democrats, not being vested in the plan, would have a vital role to keep it honest. As such they would share credit for taking our inner cities out of the ever deepening spiral of poverty, crime and despair.

What if Democrats just declare war. What if they on "principle" decide that Democrats and Republicans cannot agree and keep their identities? Not having control of either House or Senate, the Republicans, with a newly grown backbone (a hypothetical and somewhat unlikely attribute), could make this happen without them, as the Democrats made Obamacare without the help of the Republicans. If, unlike Obamacare, this program actually works, then the inner city votes the Democrats are absolutely dependent upon for any relevancy in our nation today, the ONLY votes they have, will be gone. 75 years of handouts will be revealed as the true racism, doling crumbs to people who really needed opportunity--solving nothing in return for undeserved loyalty.

The Democratic party is in grave danger. Its only path forward is to work to make this work. Otherwise they'll protest themselves to irrelevance and a not so honored place in the history books. I hope Trump is hard nosed enough to see this through. He shouldn't trust the Democrats' word, they can't be trusted, but they can be made to honor their committment if the agreement is solid, public and has consequences for betrayal.

[Rockin Robbins]

He who laughs last, laughs best. :D


http://cdn.wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/nuclear_blast-798x350.gif

"I won, I won...!" :yeah: [Chorus of angels singing Tr(i)umpant giggles]
Again shades of the shortsighted, ignorant comments made about Reagan in the '80s. Reagan said "no options are off the table, including nuclear." Reagan walked out of the Reykjavik summit leaving the Soviets with their gums flapping. "We don't make any agreements that don't benefit the United States." He announced "Star Wars," a program the press and libs loved to make fun of. "You want an arms war? We'll show you Soviets how it's done."

A couple of demonstrations later revealing that Reagan would be the one laughing in the end, along with the sober assessment by the Soviets that they had no way to even begin to duplicate or counter our capabilities. Suddenly the Soviets made nicey-nice, lost confidence in themselves and crumbled in 1989, the most important single event of the 20th century.

Why did this happen? Was it because we continued the old policy of making agreement after agreement in favor of the Soviets? Was it because we continued to say that we would do anything to avoid war? No. It was because we demonstrated that if war was the aim we were the best at it and the Soviets had no chance. They bought it and the result was peace.

Peace comes when we have the resolve to pay the price. From World War II and Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" we know what brings war. Or at least a few of us do and we'll fight to protect our peacenik brethren. They need our protection until they grow up.

[Skybird]

Has anyone thought about the major implication of Donald Trump's election? What is he? Well, he's a builder. He's built big projects.
But then, he also lost a lot there. ;) He steered the Trump trust almost into ruin - and then managed to get the banks to lending him more money to keep it afloat.

Lets be fair, he was a very ambitious business man, but no self-made millionaire - he severley based on the fortune by his father on which he could built - he could afford, on that basis, to suffer many losses and defeats, and could sit out many highly questionable business decisions by him. In other words: its not about Trump beign a great businessman, that is just a claim he rose during his campaign, since he had no political experience to show - his deals could as well have ended in total diaster, so in the end he was a dealer taking many gamlbes, and being lucky with it. A gambler who got away with it -thats how I see it by being stubborn, choleric, disciplined nevertheless, and focussing on what he wants, taking no prisoners along the way.

His business experience is not what impresses me about him. From dish washer to millionaire is not what his life was about. He had many helpful boosters attacked to his life from cradle on, who kept him flying where others would have crashed and would have never recovered.

That is not his fault, he cannot be held responsible for havign been born to a rich father, nor is it a sin to live in a rich family, or to have had luck, so he must not excuse himself for that. But one should be careful to think his wealth indicates his business brilliance. Things turned out well for him, yes, but business brilliance or competence this indicates not, at least none of outstanding quality.

But there were many people who lost money due to his failures, who lost their pensions, their savings. The bills from his failings always had to be paid by others, while he still rose again like Phoenix from the ashes.

He has changed party membership several times, which is another illustration that he has no agenda different than "me first". He is not a Republican, and that is why the party finds it difficult to adapt to him. He also was no Democrat or Libertarian, we he had joined these parties. And he was no Republican during his first try with the party (he left again). He always have chosen that membership that at that time was the party of which he probably thouht it would be most helpful to him and his business problems at that time, it seems. And that is called opportunism. This man has no political home, faith or agenda. Its "Trump first", and that puts even "America" back into second line.

He has and he will unscrupulously do whatever is needed to see him getting where he wants - no matter what. This, I think, is key to understand how Trump ticks. Thats explains his chnaging party memberships. That explains his ruthless business practices. That explains his mud-throwing campaign - it explains everything so far.

It even explains why he appoeared almost shy during the visit at Obama. It probably had dawned upon him what he had managed to get himnself embarked on. He probbaly has had no real, relaitsic clue of the dimension of the challenge. Obama may have given him a first taste of reality catching up with his slogans, and overtaking them. Just shouting "Makign America great again", will not be sufficient to fulfill the task.

He wasd comoared to the capaigner Ronal Reagan. Even Reagan had more poltical experience when he became president, and was a different character, with a very different personality. Trump seems to lean on some of Reaguns fiscal ideas, but it were different times back then, and Reaganomics in the end lead to amssive increase of debts and inflation of money. They were no mngaic to be had for free. If Trum tries to copy these spells today, then things indeed could go up in flames - in America, and around the globe as well. This is what makes his presidency so uncalculatable and risky.

And mind you, 75 investigations against him are still running.

I earlier said I did not think one minute Trump is dumb. That must not mean he is original, intelligent and creative. It could be that he ist just cunning, smart, foxy, that he has plenty of shrewdness. Shrewdness combined with stubbornbess and patience, is a very tough combo for an opponent you have to face.

His entertainment value promises to be immense. :D

[AVGWarhawk]

I can agree to that if we agree that anyone who decides not to buy health insurance can not expect any medical services unless they pay in advance, no more medical care for the irresponsible and having we the tax payers pick up the bill. That's a big part of the reason health care costs have increased so much.

Meanwhile:


I'm starting to like this guy :D

Before Obamacare those that paid for healthcare had a high premium that would help offset the costs incurred for caring for those that did not have insurance. One would think then that Obamacare would keep the cost down for those that carried insurance as the new policies would eliminate the need to charge those that carried insurance and paid a little extra to cover the uncovered. The reality is those that carried before Obamacare has seen premium increases as well as copay increases. Basically sucked into paying much more than the old system. It is a train wreck.

Trump did point blank say he is looking to deport those that are illegally here and have a criminal record. I do not see any issue here. It is the law of the nation. No nation if there is no law.

[Bilge_Rat]

priceless:

https://youtu.be/Is8WVliYBPI

[Oberon]

"You want an arms war? We'll show you Soviets how it's done."

Indeed, and you're still paying for it. :ping:

[Jimbuna]

It would appear Trump and Putin have spoken on the phone together.

I wonder which one made the call :hmmm:

US President-elect Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin have had a telephone conversation, the Kremlin said.
Mr Putin wished Mr Trump "success in implementing the election programme".
The Russian leader added he was ready to engage in dialogue with the new administration based on "the principles of equality".
Mr Trump has expressed admiration for Mr Putin, saying he "has been a leader far more than our president".
Mr Putin in turn has called Mr Trump "a very outstanding person, talented without doubt".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37981770