2016 US Presidential election thread [Archive] - Page 17

Skybird

11-14-16, 04:37 PM

Again shades of the shortsighted, ignorant comments made about Reagan in the '80s. Reagan said "no options are off the table, including nuclear." Reagan walked out of the Reykjavik summit leaving the Soviets with their gums flapping. "We don't make any agreements that don't benefit the United States." He announced "Star Wars," a program the press and libs loved to make fun of. "You want an arms war? We'll show you Soviets how it's done."

A couple of demonstrations later revealing that Reagan would be the one laughing in the end, along with the sober assessment by the Soviets that they had no way to even begin to duplicate or counter our capabilities. Suddenly the Soviets made nicey-nice, lost confidence in themselves and crumbled in 1989, the most important single event of the 20th century.

Why did this happen? Was it because we continued the old policy of making agreement after agreement in favor of the Soviets? Was it because we continued to say that we would do anything to avoid war? No. It was because we demonstrated that if war was the aim we were the best at it and the Soviets had no chance. They bought it and the result was peace.

Peace comes when we have the resolve to pay the price. From World War II and Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" we know what brings war. Or at least a few of us do and we'll fight to protect our peacenik brethren. They need our protection until they grow up.
BTW, that snappy reply of mine to Neal was not meant to be serious, but played some chlichés. ;) Or in other words: I pulled somebody's leg. But okay: Germans - and humour... :D

Rockin Robbins

11-14-16, 04:43 PM

Indeed, and you're still paying for it. :ping:
The cost of freedom has always been high. Unwillingness to pay it resulted in World War 2, a preventable war. Willingness to pay it resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union. Those who lead, who lead from strength, who are both good and strong are the ones who produce peace. Weakness creates only death on unimaginable scale. A hundred million dead from World War 2 are warning enough.

Peace isn't free. It is purchased by those who realize that avoiding war is not the highest good. And the currency is blood. It's not a nice thing to think about but as long as evil exists in the world it will remain true.

Oberon

11-14-16, 08:57 PM

The cost of freedom has always been high. Unwillingness to pay it resulted in World War 2, a preventable war. Willingness to pay it resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union. Those who lead, who lead from strength, who are both good and strong are the ones who produce peace. Weakness creates only death on unimaginable scale. A hundred million dead from World War 2 are warning enough.

Peace isn't free. It is purchased by those who realize that avoiding war is not the highest good. And the currency is blood. It's not a nice thing to think about but as long as evil exists in the world it will remain true.

I meant financially. The US bankrupted the USSR in the arms race, but put itself in a precarious financial situation which has only served to snowball into the current situation. Especially post-9/11 when spending went through the roof.
But yes, the Soviet Union fell...but I think that you'll find that more than a few Russians were not fond of what happened in the immediate aftermath. Russia fell into the long grass, damn near collapsed completely and is now...whatever it is under Putin.
The former satellite states, the Eastern Bloc, they're happy, and the collapse of the Pact was a good thing for them...but the strangest thing is that now a lot of them are voting in governments that are not dissimilar to the government in Moscow. Polands government in particular has more similarities to Putin than to any western leader.
Certainly the world became a lot less stable following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and I think that we also have a lot to be grateful for certain members of the Soviet government that the collapse did not bring about a war. A hardliner in Moscow trying to stave off the collapse of the Warsaw Pact could well have sought to unify the Communist bloc against a western enemy. We were lucky to have the right people in the right place when it came down to it.
And when it comes down to it...now, 25 years on...are the people of Russia better off than they were in the days of the Soviet Union? :hmmm:

Oberon

11-14-16, 09:14 PM

I should also qualify the above reply with the fact that I, for one, am glad that the Soviet Union fell. Sure it made military fiction rather boring for two decades but it also gave newfound freedom to the eastern bloc, however I do believe that there were critical mistakes made by the west whilst Russia was at its weakest. I don't think we took it seriously enough, and now we're paying the price for that. There was a window of opportunity for greater rapprochement with Russia, and a much more careful expansion of NATO, but we missed that and now we're back with the likelihood of the interests of Russia and Europe not flowing in the same direction.

Onkel Neal

11-15-16, 09:29 PM

Buddahaid

11-15-16, 09:56 PM

But she was protesting Trump, not protesting BLM, making her a BLM protester protesting Trump.... wait a minute...:k_confused:

Oberon

11-16-16, 12:35 AM

I never knew you could clear a swamp by dumping more swamp in it. :hmmm:

Subnuts

11-16-16, 08:42 AM

I never knew you could clear a swamp by dumping more swamp in it. :hmmm:

You have to drain the swamp to get at the petrified elephant dung at the bottom.

AVGWarhawk

11-16-16, 09:29 AM

Bilge_Rat

11-16-16, 12:23 PM

too bad he had to learn the hard way, but there are certain things you should know never to post on the interweb...

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/packetsled-ceo-matthew-harrigan-trump-threat-231478

Bilge_Rat

11-16-16, 12:33 PM

Canada or Bust:

http://www.infowars.com/canada-or-bust-airline-offers-anti-trump-celebrities-free-flights-to-canada/

Jones Airways is a real airline. :up:

Jimbuna

11-17-16, 08:35 AM

Rockin Robbins

11-17-16, 10:25 AM

An example of how screwed up the mainstream media is:

Donald Trump protester accused of punching police horse taken back into custody (http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/articleComments/Donald-Trump-protestor-accused-of-punching-police-10613096.php?google_editors_picks=true)

The headline names Trump but this sad sack was a black live matter member. They should have titled this article Black Lives matter protester. :shifty:
We have enough crazies from both sides doing really stupid things. I won't ever believe Hillary ordered or knew about the idiots who dragged a pregnant woman out of her car and beat her up "in protest" of Trump's election. I also won't believe Trump ordered a Black Lives Matter idiot to punch a horse.

One thing which was reprehensible was the way Hillary treated her supporters on the night of her defeat, abandoning them and merely sending Podesta there to tell them to go home to meet again the next morning.

Here's a several thousand men who suffered a far greater defeat than Hillary and several thousand who had far greater differences than Hillary and Trump, who hours before were killing each other by the hundreds. Let's let them show how both victors and vanquished behave honorably!
On April 12, 1865, Gordon's Confederate troops officially surrendered (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Appomattox_Court_House#Surrender) to Bvt. Maj. Gen. Joshua L. Chamberlain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain), acting for Lt. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant), recorded in moving detail by Chamberlain: The momentous meaning of this occasion impressed me deeply. I resolved to mark it by some token of recognition, which could be no other than a salute of arms. Well aware of the responsibility assumed, and of the criticisms that would follow, as the sequel proved, nothing of that kind could move me in the least. The act could be defended, if needful, by the suggestion that such a salute was not to the cause for which the flag of the Confederacy stood, but to its going down before the flag of the Union. My main reason, however, was one for which I sought no authority nor asked forgiveness. Before us in proud humiliation stood the embodiment of manhood: men whom neither toils and sufferings, nor the fact of death, nor disaster, nor hopelessness could bend from their resolve; standing before us now, thin, worn, and famished, but erect, and with eyes looking level into ours, waking memories that bound us together as no other bond;—was not such manhood to be welcomed back into a Union so tested and assured? Instructions had been given; and when the head of each division column comes opposite our group, our bugle sounds the signal and instantly our whole line from right to left, regiment by regiment in succession, gives the soldier's salutation, from the "order arms" to the old "carry"—the marching salute. Gordon at the head of the column, riding with heavy spirit and downcast face, catches the sound of shifting arms, looks up, and, taking the meaning, wheels superbly, making with himself and his horse one uplifted figure, with profound salutation as he drops the point of his sword to the boot toe; then facing to his own command, gives word for his successive brigades to pass us with the same position of the manual,—honor answering honor. On our part not a sound of trumpet more, nor roll of drum; not a cheer, nor word nor whisper of vain-glorying, nor motion of man standing again at the order, but an awed stillness rather, and breath-holding, as if it were the passing of the dead!
— Joshua L. Chamberlain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_L._Chamberlain), The Passing of the Armies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passing_of_the_Armies), pp. 260-61

That makes me ashamed to be an American right now with all the idiots on both sides acting like schoolyard bullies.

August

11-17-16, 11:00 AM

That makes me ashamed to be an American right now with all the idiots on both sides acting like schoolyard bullies

That's because not enough blood has been spilled yet for them to respect each others resolve.

AVGWarhawk

11-17-16, 11:35 AM

One thing which was reprehensible was the way Hillary treated her supporters on the night of her defeat, abandoning them and merely sending Podesta there to tell them to go home to meet again the next morning.

I agree here. Hillary should have conceded on stage that night and still held a party. It showed a sore loser.

Mr Quatro

11-17-16, 11:39 AM

We need something good to happen ... like a good NFL football game to take our minds off our countries problems. Denver beating the Saints on a blocked extra point try and ran back for the 2 points Denver needed to win comes to mind or the run play by Dallas intended to set up a field goal try that would tie the game with only 17 seconds left turned into a touchdown to win (8) games in a row for Dallas.

We need more of that ... and more love for each other too :yep:

AVGWarhawk

11-17-16, 11:39 AM

That's because not enough blood has been spilled yet for them to respect each others resolve.

Let's hope the blood spilling does not continue to make a point.

Rockin Robbins

11-17-16, 02:35 PM

I agree here. Hillary should have conceded on stage that night and still held a party. It showed a sore loser.
To be fair, it probably just showed a person too distraught/enraged to be able to do what's right. She owed them more than that.

To her credit, the next morning she expressed her willingness to help the Trump administration promote peace and reconciliation--something some crazies who claim to be on both sides haven't been willing to do.

Don't take the actions of idiots and attach them to either of the candidates.

Platapus

11-17-16, 02:45 PM

Don't take the actions of idiots and attach them to either of the candidates.

But that's what we do in America. Improper inductive reasoning is one of our cultural activities that we hold dear.

Since it is a lot easier to confirm bias through inductive reasoning (especially when people are not concerned with doing it properly), it is a common way of arguing. Especially on the Internets Tubes.

AVGWarhawk

11-17-16, 02:49 PM

To be fair, it probably just showed a person too distraught/enraged to be able to do what's right. She owed them more than that.

To her credit, the next morning she expressed her willingness to help the Trump administration promote peace and reconciliation--something some crazies who claim to be on both sides haven't been willing to do.

Don't take the actions of idiots and attach them to either of the candidates.

Distraught/enraged shows what? Bad temperament? She absolutely owed everyone who busted the butts for her more than what she did which was nothing.

How gracious of Hillary to help Trump. Might be a good idea as Trump is going to have Hillary investigated. Hillary's story does not end here.

Platapus

11-17-16, 03:32 PM

To be honest, is there anything Hillary could have done that would not have garnered criticism from some group?

There are people who just simply don't like Hillary and nothing she could have done, or not done would have made her happy.

Rockin Robbins

11-17-16, 04:49 PM

Distraught/enraged shows what? Bad temperament? She absolutely owed everyone who busted the butts for her more than what she did which was nothing.

How gracious of Hillary to help Trump. Might be a good idea as Trump is going to have Hillary investigated. Hillary's story does not end here.
You know, if I were Trump I'd have a meeting with her. I'd tell her she knows she should go to jail for what she did and produce a couple people who did lesser things and are cooling their heels in the slammer right now, that kid on a nuclear sub who took six photos with his cell phone (others on the sub did too but were not prosecuted) and is behind bars today, for instance.

Then I'd assign her to be in charge of writing regulations that would make it an explicit crime to do the stupid e-mail server tricks she did so that there would never again be such an instance that did not end in prison. If she does an excellent job, let her off the hook somewhat gracefully.

Lots of stuff never came out. As head of the State Department I'm sure she sent memos to all her employees outlining proper e-mail procedures, prohibiting private server use for government use and spelling out the consequences. Why did nobody dig up that memo and hang it around her neck? The news media simply wasn't interested in pursuing the story.

This wouldn't give her redemption. Her conduct the night she lost, plus her e-mail abuse clearly show that she didn't have the temperment to be President. When you're President you must do what is necessary no matter how you feel.

That's exemplified by her husband, whose mantra was "when we screw up, get the story out quickly and completely. By the time the opposition hits us with it it's old news.

Mr Quatro

11-17-16, 06:43 PM

Hillary and Obama and others have said that Trump was not fit to serve as POTUS ...
I think it is starting to come out that Hillary Clinton herself was not fit to be the POTUS.

I think we are very lucky in a way not to have her running the show:

CLINTON RAGE: Hillary Clinton Has Major Temper Tantrum On Election Night After Losing to Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGe_6BmCZo0

or this one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfGeXth-Do4

Onkel Neal

11-17-16, 10:01 PM

Does either of those two videos capture Clinton doing/saying the things the talking heads claim she did/said? If so, please tell me at what minute mark.

Mr Quatro

11-18-16, 08:05 AM

Does either of those two videos capture Clinton doing/saying the things the talking heads claim she did/said? If so, please tell me at what minute mark.

No, these video's do not show her angry moods ... but these some odd (20) video's don't either: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fitness%ee%80%81+to+%ee%80%80hillary's+an ger&qpvt=sitness+to+hillart%27s+abger&FORM=VDRE

No video footage of her anger doesn't mean it didn't happen. I believe the Secret Service agents report of her anger while in the white house and the reports of her anger at Donna Brazil and throwing a bottle of water at her and the report that she does not allow cell phones near her.

I guess we will have to wait for Huma Abedin book to come out, uh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huma_Abedin

August

11-18-16, 08:08 AM

I think this article makes some fair points about Jon Stewart.

https://thefederalist.com/2016/11/11/how-jon-stewart-and-the-daily-show-elected-donald-trump/

Crossfire was canceled soon thereafter. Most people credit Stewart for not just killing the show, but bringing forth a new age of hyper-political, hyper-liberal late-night comedy. The news scene hasn’t changed altogether much since Stewart’s temper tantrum — except for featuring far less argument-sharpening debate and civil discourse than we had under “Crossfire” when Stewart went on his tear. “Crossfire” used to be one of the few places guests and hosts at least confronted conflicting views, including questions about perspectives and assumptions. It engaged the viewers, rather than ambushed or mocked them. It was also one of the few places on TV outside of Fox News where conservative views were given an audience.The decline of civil discourse didn’t just happen on cable news shows, thanks to Stewart. He also helped kill it on late-night comedy shows as well.

Rockin Robbins

11-18-16, 08:31 AM

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can neither do nor teach are leftist comedians.:D:D

Why should they be the goto source of wisdom in defending a position? That fact alone screams lack of validity for a hyperbolic position.

You have to redefine the meaning of the word to call Trump hypocritical. His weakness is that he is too honest, that he fails to filter out positions that might offend some, that he speaks his mind regardless of the consequences. Of course that got a lot of help when "some of the immigrants are criminals who must be expelled" became "all Mexican immigrants are criminals" in the press, shame on the "objective" (another word that has been redefined) press.

Hypocrisy is being head of the State department, sending memos to your people telling them now to handle e-mail in a secure manner and in a way that preserves historical records, but violating those guidelines for yourself, ensuring that the enemies of the US have access to the country's most sensitive top secret and above information. Hypocrisy is denying that you had more than one cell phone when you had at least 10 different ones, denying that any top secret e-mails went on your server when many did, denying that any wrongdoing was done and that at most an inconsequential mistake was made.

Hypocrisy is claiming to work for women's rights when the 1990's was spent destroying women who claimed sexual relations with her "husband" in direct opposition to her "women don't lie. They have the right to be believed" nonsense. Hypocrisy is paying your women 70% of what the men working in the campaign are paid and claiming to stand for equal pay for equal work. Hypocrisy is handing out crumbs to the residents of our inner cities for their votes while doing not one thing to bring them true opportunity and bring them out of their economic plight. Hypocrisy is blaming the deficit on the top 1% of taxpayers not paying their share when they already pay over half of federal revenues. Hypocrisy is a plan to increase corporate taxes on companies who are already paying the highest corporate taxes in the world, effectively paying them to leave our country and relocate to one with lower expenses.

Finally, hypocrisy is taking a tens of millions of dollars from the same countries that finance ISIS, the same countries where women can't vote, can't leave the house without escort, are not allowed to get an education, cannot drive a car and are strictly treated as property: toys to be taken out of the closet to play with and when you're done they go back in the closet. 90% of that 70 to 100 million dollars went to the Clintons. The other 10% went to the purposes of the Clinton Foundation.

That's the short list. You do not have to redefine the term to attach "hypocrisy" to its correct owner here.

Oh, hypocrisy is stiffing your supporters on the night of your predictable loss of the presidency, for selfish reasons not thanking them for their support, sending the message that this defeat is final, that an unspeakable wrong has been committed, that THIS defeat is final and that somehow her supporters, as evidenced by her absence, are to blame, in her mind. It was a horrible act of selfish hypocrisy. Being better than Hillary, they still came back and cheered her the next day. I'm not willing to sign on to the profanity laden hissy fit scenario. Whatever her reasons, she has a right to privacy and to be judged by her public actions, not her alleged private meltdown.

Hillary has had plenty of object lessons that the universe is not all about her, but has steadfastly rejected each opportunity to become a better person and take responsibility for her own shortcomings, which all, thankfully, cost her the Presidency.

I'm not saying Trump will fare any better or be a great President. He's a bit of a crapshoot. But if he fails, it will be because of his forthrightness, not because of his parsing and redefining of formerly well-understood and shared values and terms. He's not a professional politician. That is both his primary strength and his greatest weakness.

Bilge_Rat

11-18-16, 09:36 AM

well, not to state the obvious, but the election is over, Hillary Clinton's political career is over. As we all know, she will not be investigated, charged, tried or sent to jail. The last thing Trump needs now is to create a martyr, that always backfires:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/12/world/europe/yulia-tymoshenko-sentenced-to-seven-years-in-prison.html

The last thing you want to do is to create the precedent that losing presidential candidate can be sent to jail, that would really confirm the ROW's impression that the USA is heading towards "Banana Republic" status.

Rockin Robbins

11-18-16, 10:28 AM

He needs to do what I suggested earlier and actually give her a chance to make up for the mess she made. It wouldn't be redemption but she could feel she partially made up for her error and the country could be left better because of her participation. She can't undo what she did but she might be able to make it not happen again.

Unlike Ford's pardon of Nixon, there would be a sense of justice to not presecuting her. Actually, there would be REAL justice then.

August

11-18-16, 10:54 AM

Oh no, I don't want Clinton to have any governmental authority at all, even if it were just to fix the mess she helped create. She can go community organize with BHO after he leaves office or go jump off a bridge for all I care but I don't want to see her with a .gov in her email ever again.

AVGWarhawk

11-18-16, 11:38 AM

Does either of those two videos capture Clinton doing/saying the things the talking heads claim she did/said? If so, please tell me at what minute mark.

There is sources that state Hillary treated FBI agents like dogs and spoke at them, not with them. Although there is no tapes or video, I truly believed things she said did occur. I also believe she went on rant the night of the election.

We will go right to Snopes on Hillary's actions and reactions behind closed doors.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hildabeast.asp

aanker

11-18-16, 12:29 PM

I don't trust Snopes and haven't for a couple years because I used them for a source and got my *ss reamed.. and rightfully so, I might add. Snopes lied about whatever issue it was, ...... I forget.

Now I consider them left leaning. I wish that they had remained objective. For years they were a good go to source for the truth.

AVGWarhawk

11-18-16, 12:45 PM

Mr Quatro

11-18-16, 02:00 PM

Snopes is just one source for checking Hillary's treatment of people and situations. Many do trust Snopes as a good source.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/snopes/

As with many forwarded emails, the criticism did not include any example of what the writer of the email claimed was the difference between what Snopes.com reported and what Barack Obama had actually said.
Snopes.com is an excellent site that has become an authoritative source for information about urban legends and forwarded emails. We regard David and Barbara Mikkelson, the founders and operators of Snopes.com, as colleagues and professional researchers who have earned a good reputation for what they do.
We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.
We’ve got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being “right wing whackos” as well as “liberals” and “communists.” We’ve been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We’ve been called “Christian propagandists” as well as “atheists pretending to be neutral.” We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who “really” owns us and what our “real” motives are.
The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don’t like the truth you’ve reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.
That, in our view, is what is happening with Snopes.
The 2008 presidential campaign has been one of the most intense and unique in our nation’s history and has prompted more political eRumors than any presidential campaign in our experience, especially about Barack Obama.
These anti-Snopes emails have probably been prompted by someone who does not like Barack Obama and does not like the fact that Snopes (or TruthOrFiction.com for that matter) has debunked some of the emails that are not true about him.
One of the versions of the eRumor mentions TruthOrFiction.com and recommends our site. We appreciate that, but we want to say for the record that we’ve had nothing to do with this eRumor about Snopes.com and we condemn it.

AVGWarhawk

11-18-16, 02:31 PM

https://www.truthorfiction.com/snopes/

Interesting but just how much in the tank when this particular Snopes finding as it is sited as mixed and titled Hildabeast. Not very becoming for a liberal leaning fact finder. But, non-the-less, I take everything on the net with a grain of salt. And like Neal, do we have video or tape of Hillary saying these things? No we don't but we have many that say they have witnessed such behavior from Hillary.

Platapus

11-18-16, 04:03 PM

Snopes is just one source for checking Hillary's treatment of people and situations. Many do trust Snopes as a good source.

One should not rely on any single source, no matter how well it confirms one's biases.

Oberon

11-18-16, 05:35 PM

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/704438057202819072

https://youtu.be/wCM3E058KfY?t=1495

24:55
(https://youtu.be/wCM3E058KfY?t=1495)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38021820

https://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

CaptainHaplo

11-18-16, 09:18 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38021820
"Mr Sessions was rejected from becoming a federal judge in 1986 because of alleged racist remarks."

Absolutely inaccurate. Jeff Sessions' nomination was WITHDRAWN from consideration, he was not rejected. The Judicial Committee voted 9-9 on whether to recommend him or not.

It also makes absolute sense that Trump would settle this case now - because for the next 4 years and 2 months (at least) he isn't going to have time to deal it. Especially since both sides had agreed to mediation previously.

Note that the settlement does specifically note that there is no finding of or admission of wrongdoing by Donald Trump.

Facts matter.

Platapus

11-18-16, 09:41 PM

note that there is no finding of or admission of wrongdoing by Donald Trump.

Facts matter.

I think that is pretty common when corporations pay off people.

The fact that his lawyers put in that clause into the agreement does not indicate that he was indeed not at fault.

Paying off the people was probably the best decision he could have made, but it hardly exonerates him.

August

11-18-16, 09:46 PM

I think that is pretty common when corporations pay off people.

The fact that his lawyers put in that clause into the agreement does not indicate that he was indeed not at fault.

Paying off the people was probably the best decision he could have made, but it hardly exonerates him.

Nor does it convict him. At some point it becomes cheaper to settle rather than keep paying for lawyers to fight the case. Given that Trump is kinda busy getting ready to lead the country this case would have been a huge distraction so I think he very sensibly settled it.

em2nought

11-19-16, 11:31 AM

This is a shame https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/private-prisons-boost-trump-100020381.html

Much better to have contracted with China to be the USA holding tank for illegal immigration. :03: All those empty shipping containers heading back across the Pacific could finally be filled. :D

Oberon

11-19-16, 03:00 PM

I see there's a call for theatres to be 'safe-spaces', I bet Lincoln wished he'd thought of that. :up:

em2nought

11-20-16, 03:43 AM

I see there's a call for theatres to be 'safe-spaces', I bet Lincoln wished he'd thought of that. :up:

With the rude behavior exhibited in theatres, I'm surprised there aren't metal detectors to prevent people dealing with little privileged trouble makers. :03:

Oberon

11-20-16, 07:39 AM

With the rude behavior exhibited in theatres, I'm surprised there aren't metal detectors to prevent people dealing with little privileged trouble makers. :03:

Gotta keep those safe spaces, can't go having people getting triggered now. :yep:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxqCuzHUUAEJ_RF.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxqCvmkUAAA1T6o.jpg

August

11-20-16, 09:40 AM

They need safe spaces yet these are the people who wanted to run the country.

Mr Quatro

11-20-16, 10:19 AM

I can't believe a major newspaper would call the POTUS elect a baby ...

Is this going to be the norm for the next four (4) years. I think this is very disrespectful :yep:

Grow Up, Baby Donald: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-glasser/grow-up-baby-donald_b_13094402.html

The blog points out every mistake Donald Trump has made and then calls him a baby.

I guess you can get away with due to it's blog by the executive director of the ACLU Ira Glaser.

Executive Director, ACLU (1978-2001, Retired) and President of the Drug Policy Alliance Board

u crank

11-20-16, 10:33 AM

August

11-20-16, 11:03 AM

I can't believe a major newspaper would call the POTUS elect a baby ...

They're hoping they get him to react badly and say something they can use against him. During the debates Clinton and the moderators used the same tactics with some success so they are keeping with that line of attack.

Oberon

11-20-16, 11:15 AM

Some people might look at Pence's attendance at a play that celebrates diversity as a step in the right direction. Calling him out for attending and lecturing him, though politely I might add, is not quite fair. Simply thanking him for coming would have been better.

Well, to be fair, the cast were calling on the audience to stop booing and respect the guy, and let's also not forget that Pence supported with-holding funds in the Ryan White Care Act from organisations that "celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus" and the lead member of the cast is a homosexual with HIV, so he's probably feeling a little concerned about the future of certain subgroups of Americans rights to existence. There's a lot of fear amongst these subgroups, based upon the rhetoric of Trump during the election campaign.
Hopefully these fears will be unfounded, and hopefully Pence appearing at the theatre is an indication that he is going to attempt to listen and allay some of those fears, but he's going to have to expect a bit of criticism and concern. After all, how many times did Obama get booed when he went to places?

Oberon

11-20-16, 11:20 AM

They're hoping they get him to react badly and say something they can use against him. During the debates Clinton and the moderators used the same tactics with some success so they are keeping with that line of attack.

It usually worked. Guy doesn't have a very thick skin, he's going to have to grow one if he wants to last four years. :hmmm:

Fortunately for him though, most of his supporters really don't care.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fKk2I5iiWGN0I/giphy.gif

August

11-20-16, 11:33 AM

Well, to be fair, the cast were calling on the audience to stop booing and respect the guy, and let's also not forget that Pence supported with-holding funds in the Ryan White Care Act from organisations that "celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus" and the lead member of the cast is a homosexual with HIV, so he's probably feeling a little concerned about the future of certain subgroups of Americans rights to existence. There's a lot of fear amongst these subgroups, based upon the rhetoric of Trump during the election campaign.
Hopefully these fears will be unfounded, and hopefully Pence appearing at the theatre is an indication that he is going to attempt to listen and allay some of those fears, but he's going to have to expect a bit of criticism and concern. After all, how many times did Obama get booed when he went to places?

Oh bull. A few boos is a far cry from stopping in the middle of a play so the cast can deliver political demands to a member of the audience. Remember all the fake outrage and hand ringing by the left when a single member of congress called Obama a liar while he was making a speech?

And since when does not wanting to fund someones lifestyle equal taking their right to existence away? Are you implying that homosexuality is dependent on government support?

Oberon

11-20-16, 11:49 AM

Are you implying that homosexuality is dependent on government support?

No, but it certainly helps.

Oberon

11-20-16, 12:00 PM

Oh bull. A few boos is a far cry from stopping in the middle of a play so the cast can deliver political demands to a member of the audience.

It wasn't in the middle of the play it was at the end, at the curtain call.

"You know, we have a guest in the audience this evening, And Vice President-elect Pence, I see you walking out, but I hope you will hear us just a few more moments. There’s nothing to boo here, ladies and gentlemen. There’s nothing to boo here. We’re all here sharing a story of love. We have a message for you, sir. We hope that you will hear us out.
Vice President-elect Pence, we welcome you, and we truly thank you for joining us here at ‘Hamilton: An American Musical.’ We really do. We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and work on behalf of all of us. All of us. Again, we truly thank you truly for seeing this show, this wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men and women of different colors, creeds and orientations."Is this what a demand looks like? Pence didn't seem to think so

"I know this is a very disappointing time for people that did not see their candidate win in this national election. I know that this is a very anxious time for some people, And I just want to reassure people that what President-elect Donald Trump said on election night he absolutely meant from the bottom of his heart — he is preparing to be the president of all of the people of the United States of America."Pence seems to have reacted more maturely than his partner, which bodes well.
Still, the right has been dishing it out for the past eight years, they'll just have to learn to take it too. I remember Obama the Magic Negro, that was fun wasn't it? The Secret Muslim? The man who was once a member of the Black Panthers? The man who wasn't born in America? Well, boots on the other foot now. That's just how it goes. Should it be better than this? Definitely. Is it going to be better than this? Not a chance.

Onkel Neal

11-20-16, 12:08 PM

Still, the right has been dishing it out for the past eight years, they'll just have to learn to take it too. I remember Obama the Magic Negro, that was fun wasn't it? .

I remember that was coined by David Ehrenstein (http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19-story.html) and he is not a member of the Right. :O:

u crank

11-20-16, 12:24 PM

... but he's going to have to expect a bit of criticism and concern.

Sorry but in this case it's just bad form and sets up a precedent. Booing of political figures is one thing and to be expected. Delivering a political message to them at a non political event that a person pays to attend is another. What's next...opinion pieces at the end of movies, half time rants by head coaches at sporting events?

Bad form and bad manners.

Oberon

11-20-16, 12:39 PM

Sorry but in this case it's just bad form and sets up a precedent. Booing of political figures is one thing and to be expected. Delivering a political message to them at a non political event that a person pays to attend is another. What's next...opinion pieces at the end of movies, half time rants by head coaches at sporting events?

Bad form and bad manners.

That's fair. :hmmm:

Platapus

11-20-16, 01:22 PM

I can't believe a major newspaper would call the POTUS elect a baby ...

Huffington Post and major newspaper. Can you use those terms in the same sentence?

Subnuts

11-20-16, 02:57 PM

I think Hamilton will survive the $14 loss in ticket revenue from Republicans refusing to see a Broadway play with a hip-hop soundtrack and an openly gay lead actor.

AndyJWest

11-20-16, 03:03 PM

I think Hamilton will survive the $14 loss in ticket revenue from Republicans refusing to see a Broadway play with a hip-hop soundtrack and an openly gay lead actor.

:har:

mapuc

11-20-16, 04:28 PM

Had to look back the last 4 years to see who was or is the President of USA-It's Obama, why I had to do this ? Because from all that I have read on the Internet, it looks like it have been Trump who have been the President and are now running for his second turnus.

Markus

August

11-20-16, 08:04 PM

I think Hamilton will survive the $14 loss in ticket revenue from Republicans refusing to see a Broadway play with a hip-hop soundtrack and an openly gay lead actor.

Yeah the only Republican who ever attended such a play just happened to be the incoming VP and his wife because you know every Republican is anti-gay. Even the Log Cabin Republicans. Even this Republican:

https://lgbtqnation-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/2016/10/donald-trump-flag-x750-500x375.jpg

Reece

11-20-16, 11:22 PM

and this Republican!!:yep:

Mr Quatro

11-21-16, 08:45 AM

and this Republican: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_B._Hayes

In 1876, Hayes was elected president (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1876) in one of the most contentious elections in national history. He lost the popular vote to Democrat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States)) Samuel J. Tilden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_J._Tilden) but he won an intensely disputed electoral college vote after a Congressional commission awarded him twenty contested electoral votes. The result was the Compromise of 1877 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_of_1877), in which the Democrats acquiesced to Hayes's election and Hayes ended all U.S. military involvement in Southern politics.

Rockin Robbins

11-21-16, 01:39 PM

Never forget that the ones who see nothing wrong with accepting around $80 million in contributions to the Clinton Foundation from the nations who also fund ISIS, the nations where homosexuals are killed, having no rights under their societies, are the liberals lecturing Vice President Elect Pence.

It's not likely that criticism from those with such a staggering disconnect from reality would have much credence. Support for Clinton was nothing short of support for bribery meant to cause the execution of the LGBT community who supported her. It was support for the Caliphate of the Islamic Republic, whose aim is to unite the world under the principles of what they consider Sharia.

Sharia is not compatible with the US Constitution or our republican ideals. Sharia would kill the entire LGBT community. That is reality. 80 million reasons. Based on the reality that the liberals were paid to further Sharia, who is more likely to defend LGBT people, Trump or the alternative? The answer is clear. Trump.

Onkel Neal

11-21-16, 10:18 PM

August

11-21-16, 11:01 PM

‘Hamilton’ Star Who Lectured Pence Under Fire for ‘Racist,’ ‘Sexist’ Tweets
(http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/11/21/hamilton-star-lectured-pence-fire-racist-sexist-tweets/)

Guess he should have paid more attention to the lesson about people in glass houses. Did he think he could publicly lecture the Vice-President elect without being scrutinized himself?

Oberon

11-22-16, 12:38 AM

Ah, beautiful Breitbart...the new mouthpiece of Washington.

Heil to the children of the sun.

Heil victory.

Buddahaid

11-22-16, 01:03 AM

eddie

11-22-16, 02:28 AM

Ah, beautiful Breitbart...the new mouthpiece of Washington.

Heil to the children of the sun.

Heil victory.

:haha::haha:

Onkel Neal

11-22-16, 07:27 AM

Ah, beautiful Breitbart...the new mouthpiece of Washington.

Heil to the children of the sun.

Heil victory.

Smirk all you want, at least they report the news. See this on CNN?

You only see bias when you oppose it.

August

11-22-16, 09:11 AM

Apparently President Trump is all the fault of the Germans.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/22/newly-unearthed-letter-shows-trump-grandfather-fought-to-stay-in-germany.html

Skybird

11-22-16, 09:50 AM

I was wondering how long it would take to find out...

However, the following piece is unfortunately only in German, but as so often when Gunnar Heinsohn publishes something, it is very solid and very good, so whatever it is worth, I give the link. Its about what Trump has to do with King and the Civil Rights movement, and with Cesar Chavez' Chicano Civil Rights movement, and why Trump only in parts was voted for by so-called White Trash ("takers"), and more by middle class white workers ("makers"). White Trash and white labour movement - are two very different things, and both dominant parties have different links there.

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/king_chavez_trump_amerikas_letzte_arbeiterbewegung

You can try with Google Autobot translation, I noticed that it has become slightly more usable in recent time, as long as the sentences are not too complex and over-structured. Maybe not with Heinsohn, however. Try and see if you can get the core of his text.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fking_cha vez_trump_amerikas_letzte_arbeiterbewegung&edit-text=

I know Heinsohn's work a bit. He knows his stuff. Books by him no longer in print get offered for sometimes hilarious prices. I have seen "Söhne und Weltmacht" once for over 400 Euros - a paperback editon that originally costed less than 10 Euros.

AVGWarhawk

11-22-16, 10:02 AM

Smirk all you want, at least they report the news. See this on CNN?

You only see bias when you oppose it.

Oh my, the bias as seen on the news stations is so thick we can cut it with a knife. It is to the point I do not trust any of the news. Further, it has gotten so bad Facebook is not being pushed to curtail fake news links that appear on FB and or are posted by a FB user.

AVGWarhawk

11-22-16, 10:04 AM

Apparently President Trump is all the fault of the Germans.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/22/newly-unearthed-letter-shows-trump-grandfather-fought-to-stay-in-germany.html

Nothing like knowing a piece of one's family history....and that is all this story is.

Bilge_Rat

11-22-16, 10:19 AM

Ah, beautiful Breitbart...the new mouthpiece of Washington.

Heil to the children of the sun.

Heil victory.

so are you really buying into the line that all Trump supporters are Nazis?

I have to admit, one of the most stupid line of attack that I read during the campaign was that Trump was anti-semitic. One has to be really blind to believe that, considering his closest adviser, Jared Kushner and his daughter Ivanka are both jewish.

:har::har:

Oberon

11-22-16, 12:03 PM

Smirk all you want, at least they report the news. See this on CNN?

You only see bias when you oppose it.

Nope, I saw this on CNN though:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx0TYO0WEAAZI7C.jpg

And this on Breitbart:

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/08/breitbart-ad-640x480.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9NJTf0suXBA/V7Wn_soflQI/AAAAAAAAAvU/hF3QbhN0SPwHEOCFEwtU0qkp3Rz7Yw5rQCLcB/s1600/breitbart-headlines.JPG

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/ZZ52C0A6AF.jpg

http://fair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/BreitbartFarage.png

But I guess in this new world of Post-Truth, it doesn't really matter what is said anymore, just who is saying it. And I know it's popular now to rail against the 'Lugenpress' so there's that. It's all good fun really!

so are you really buying into the line that all Trump supporters are Nazis?

I have to admit, one of the most stupid line of attack that I read during the campaign was that Trump was anti-semitic. One has to be really blind to believe that, considering his closest adviser, Jared Kushner and his daughter Ivanka are both jewish.

Nope, not all of them, probably not even a majority of them if I'm honest, but Trumps rhetoric and his subsequent election has brought all the closet Nazis out and given them cause for celebration, and nothing has been done to put them back in the closet where they belong.
Do I think Trump is a fascist? No, not really, I think that he's an opportunist who will say whatever he thinks will get him votes, he will appeal to whoever he can to get views. His campaign was essentially an internet troll, and so it's little surprise that the trolls of the internet rallied around him. Now he's actually in power, I think he's starting to realise that he's written a number of cheques that he can't actually cash. Will that annoy some of his supporters? Perhaps. Certainly those who chanted "Lock Her Up!" at his rallies are going to be disappointed with his recent announcement that he won't be pursuing legal action against Clinton.
But some of his supporters, yes, yes they are fascist and it's a very sad thing that this election and this rhetoric has made them think that they are relevent again. It's not just in America, it's happening all over the western world, and the movement does seem to be growing. If it collapses in on itself and nothing happens then you'll find no-one happier than me, but if it doesn't, then we've got some problems coming.

Oberon

11-22-16, 12:07 PM

Oh my, the bias as seen on the news stations is so thick we can cut it with a knife. It is to the point I do not trust any of the news. Further, it has gotten so bad Facebook is not being pushed to curtail fake news links that appear on FB and or are posted by a FB user.

Yes, it is getting silly now. I've seen it on both sides, believe me, and trying to carve through it and find out what is actually going on is getting very annoying. But that's where we are now, in 'Post-Truth' where facts matter less than emotions. Heck, over here we've had government ministers saying that people are fed up with experts, such is the state that we're in.
It's a bloody mess, and no-one is free of it.

Mr Quatro

11-22-16, 01:24 PM

You only see bias when you oppose it.

Isn't that the same as "perception = reality"? :yep:

Oberon

11-22-16, 03:10 PM

Looks like he's realising the monster that he helped energise:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38069469

August

11-22-16, 03:38 PM

Looks like he's realising the monster that he helped energise:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38069469

What, you mean like how the Black Lives Matter Cop killers were energized by his predecessor? First his detractors say that Trump isn't doing enough to disavow fringe groups but when he does disavow them you still have nothing good to say.

Oberon

11-22-16, 03:41 PM

What, you mean like how the Black Lives Matter Cop killers were energized by his predecessor? First his detractors say that Trump isn't doing enough to disavow fringe groups but when he does disavow them you still have nothing good to say.

Actually I think that it's a good thing, sorry if I triggered you.

August

11-22-16, 03:42 PM

Actually I think that it's a good thing, sorry if I triggered you.

Triggered me? Is this some kind of gun hater reference?

Oberon

11-22-16, 03:46 PM

Triggered me? Is this some kind of gun hater reference?

Calm down.

August

11-22-16, 03:48 PM

Calm down.

Are my questions making you uncomfortable?

Oberon

11-22-16, 03:51 PM

Are my questions making you uncomfortable?

Not as much as my comments seem to be provoking you. :hmmm:

Rockstar

11-22-16, 03:59 PM

Not as much as my comments seem to be provoking you. :hmmm:

Did I just hear a hammer striking a nail square on its head?

Oberon

11-22-16, 04:12 PM

Did I just hear a hammer striking a nail square on its head?

Well, what can I do about that? Stop posting? :hmmm:

Sailor Steve

11-22-16, 04:13 PM

You might hear the sound of a different kind of hammer if people don't stop digging at each other and stick to the topic at hand.

Bilge_Rat

11-22-16, 05:40 PM

Peace is at hand! :03:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/11/23/us/23trump7_hp/23trump7_hp-largeHorizontal375.jpg

Trump meets with the NY Times and they actually treat him with respect AND post a not bad photo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-visit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=956E4EA535426A43F5DAD7C68B5D0D70&gwt=pay

Rockstar

11-22-16, 06:30 PM

Well, what can I do about that? Stop posting? :hmmm:

Oh hell no! Fire at will ;)

Onkel Neal

11-22-16, 06:36 PM

Nope, I saw this on CNN though:

And this on Breitbart:

But I guess in this new world of Post-Truth, it doesn't really matter what is said anymore, just who is saying it. And I know it's popular now to rail against the 'Lugenpress' so there's that. It's all good fun really!

.

Yup, Cnn is pretty slanted one way, BB the other, I agree.

But, you understand that when a gay black theater actor tweets racist and misogynist statements, CNN will ignore it, and BB will cover it. So, how does it matter that 80% of BB is outrageous distortion, when that item I posted is not?

The point you sidestepped was the arrogant jerk who lectured the incoming VP is a hypocrite.

Mr Quatro

11-22-16, 06:45 PM

You might hear the sound of a different kind of hammer if people don't stop digging at each other and stick to the topic at hand.

I always liked this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWTDcP9Y5E

August

11-22-16, 07:08 PM

You might hear the sound of a different kind of hammer if people don't stop digging at each other and stick to the topic at hand.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist but for the record i'm not upset in the least.

My point was just that according to some here Trump is expected to disavow every nut that the left can dig up but if he does it's only because he's guilty of something. I guess there is just no pleasing some people! :)

Buddahaid

11-22-16, 08:10 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eJzNgWBjcew/T8bI5do6NYI/AAAAAAAAAUs/xUfR3Uqg-KE/s1600/7724~Please-Don-t-Interrupt-Me-While-I-m-Ignoring-You-Posters.jpg

Cybermat47

11-22-16, 08:34 PM

I'm glad that President Elect Trump is considering General James "Mad Dog" Mattis for SECDEF.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/99/06/df/9906df41fb31cadb75be3d50d1207bb9.jpg

Onkel Neal

11-22-16, 09:15 PM

Trump breaks Promise #1 (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/22/donald-trump-s-minions-furious-he-now-won-t-imprison-hillary-clinton.html)

“It’s just not something that I feel very strongly about," Trump told reporters and columnists at the New York Times Tuesday afternoon. “I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t. She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways."

He's on his way to becoming a real politician.:O:

August

11-22-16, 09:20 PM

Trump breaks Promise #1 (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/22/donald-trump-s-minions-furious-he-now-won-t-imprison-hillary-clinton.html)

If true it'll be strike one.

Then again no sense pushing Obama into using the Pardon Pen while he still wields it.

Oberon

11-22-16, 10:13 PM

Yup, Cnn is pretty slanted one way, BB the other, I agree.

But, you understand that when a gay black theater actor tweets racist and misogynist statements, CNN will ignore it, and BB will cover it. So, how does it matter that 80% of BB is outrageous distortion, when that item I posted is not?

The point you sidestepped was the arrogant jerk who lectured the incoming VP is a hypocrite.

At the end of the day, Neal, we're all hypocrites in some way or another, I know I certainly am, and there's hardly a person out there who isn't. Let he who is without sin, as they say.
Yes, the guy who lectured the VP was a hypocrite, and yes, his decision was questionable, but I think there's going to be a lot of that, and Trump needs to grow a thicker hide. Pence handled it a lot better than Trump did, to be honest, and someone really needs to take away his twitter account, for his own sake.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist but for the record i'm not upset in the least.

My point was just that according to some here Trump is expected to disavow every nut that the left can dig up but if he does it's only because he's guilty of something. I guess there is just no pleasing some people! :)

Well, it's hardly the first time people have expected an entity or a group to apologize for the actions of others which are linked to them in a trace manner. In fact we're overdue for another one, sadly.
Honestly, his disavow does not remove his actions, you can't unsmash a window, you can apologise for it, even pay for a new one, but you can't turn back time and not smash the window in the first place. I think that it's good that Trump has disavowed himself from the group that were "Heil Trump"-ing in Washington the other day, and I don't think that it'll be the first time that he'll have to do that.
Now, if you think that creeping fascism in populist politics isn't a problem, then that's a whole other kettle of fish. I'm sure that you'll be quick to fire back with something about creeping communism, and yes, I'd agree...both are a problem. I'm a liberal, but I'm not a communist, in fact in European politics I'm pretty right-side on the left (if that even makes sense as a sentence) I think that Trident should be renewed, I don't think the railways should be re-nationalised, and I think that Jeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister. In American terms though that still makes me pretty left-wing, but really I try to be as centralist as possible...and the thing that is worrying me right now, and should be worrying more people, is that the centre ground is being abandoned, and political parties are going off to the extreme left and right wings of politics and those wings are where the monsters lie, and not a great deal of good comes of extreme swings in political movements.

Trump breaks Promise #1 (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/22/donald-trump-s-minions-furious-he-now-won-t-imprison-hillary-clinton.html)

He's on his way to becoming a real politician.:O:

The best laid plans of President elects seldom make it past the White House. I think that he's going to disappoint a few people in that regards, just as Obama disappointed quite a few people on the left when he realised that a lot of his promises just couldn't cut it in Washington.

You can't fight city hall, as they say. :03:

Mr Quatro

11-23-16, 07:35 AM

Sure Trump can pick up the phone and say anything he wants to ... to the new Attorney general, but in the end it is not up to the POTUS to pursue.

It is still in the hands of the investigation team that is already in place. They don't come back till January 3rd and the EC voters will give them a whole new agenda to face on January 6th and Trump's reign is suppose to begin January 20th, 2017.

Hillary is not off the hook yet ... Obama couldn't tell the FBI director what to do and neither can Donald Trump.

August

11-23-16, 08:13 AM

I'm a liberal, but I'm not a communist,

Oh I understand the difference but I think many liberals do not understand the difference between conservatism and fascism and their voices are amplified, deliberately it seems, by a biased media.

CaptainHaplo

11-23-16, 09:17 AM

Trump breaks Promise #1 (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/22/donald-trump-s-minions-furious-he-now-won-t-imprison-hillary-clinton.html)

He's on his way to becoming a real politician.:O:

FBI is still investigating the Clinton Foundation. Given the ties between CF and influence pedaling at State, there are going to be plenty of emails in that mess as well.

This is, I suspect, a move to keep Obama from pardoning her. Whether anything will come from it after, who knows. However, and I am did not vote for Trump, I see the reality of this in 2 ways:

1) Its smart politically because it shows him (at least for not) as being bigger than the fearmongers thought when they claimed he would simply use all available power to destroy his political opponents.

2) It shows he is prioritizing the needs of the nation moving forward through transition than he is on vengeance.

Both of these show promise - and neither insures that the Clinton's won't still face legal issues down the line. I will note that letting investigations that are already ongoing go through the process is the right way to do things regardless...

AVGWarhawk

11-23-16, 09:22 AM

Trump breaks Promise #1 (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/22/donald-trump-s-minions-furious-he-now-won-t-imprison-hillary-clinton.html)

He's on his way to becoming a real politician.:O:

To be honest, who needs the darn distraction concerning the Clintons? It is time for the Clintons to fade into obscurity.....AFTER the Clinton Foundation is investigated. Let the email issue go. We have seen and heard enough. Hillary is no longer a threat with use of unsecured servers and national security.

Mr Quatro

11-23-16, 09:36 AM

To be honest, who needs the darn distraction concerning the Clintons? It is time for the Clintons to fade into obscurity.....AFTER the Clinton Foundation is investigated. Let the email issue go. We have seen and heard enough. Hillary is no longer a threat with use of unsecured servers and national security.

I know that subsim is not entertainment tonight, but that's going to be the future of the Clinton's. Bill just hung around for Hillary's chance to put him back into the White House.

Now comes the split up ... remember Al Gore and Tipper?
What a great president he would've made, uh?

Al, Tipper Gore Shock Friends With Divorce Announcement June 2010
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-tipper-gore-shock-friends-divorce-announcement/story?id=10800639

AVGWarhawk

11-23-16, 10:03 AM

I know that subsim is not entertainment tonight, but that's going to be the future of the Clinton's. Bill just hung around for Hillary's chance to put him back into the White House.

Now comes the split up ... remember Al Gore and Tipper?
What a great president he would've made, uh?

Al, Tipper Gore Shock Friends With Divorce Announcement June 2010
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-tipper-gore-shock-friends-divorce-announcement/story?id=10800639

I agree, I see Hillary dumping Bill's butt. Hillary's run for president ended the day Bill lied to the public concerning Monica Lewinsky. She just did not know it at that time.

August

11-23-16, 10:07 AM

I agree, I see Hillary dumping Bill's butt. Hillary's run for president ended the day Bill lied to the public concerning Monica Lewinsky. She just did not know it at that time.

I believe she still could have won despite that. It's her, not Bill, that people loathe.

Bilge_Rat

11-23-16, 10:29 AM

intriguing, Mark Cuban and Steve Bannon spotted meeting together:

http://static2.politico.com/dims4/default/bd4d0da/2147483647/legacy_thumbnail/403x218%3E/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F2b%2Fcd%2F 48bd278447ea98f6aa6f875b1600%2Fbannon-cuban-pb-500.jpg

http://www.politico.com/playbook-plus#

Mr Quatro

11-23-16, 11:01 AM

My upbringing teaches me not to judge by outward appearance, but it sure is hard when the person in question has a red face, needs a shave and a haircut.
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.46deaede34c0af4d259609526e3f3618&pid=15.1

However, on GMA (ABC TV) just this morning, he had a new look ... a clean look with a haircut and a clean shave and no red face and it was live. No new picture yet :)

Oberon

11-23-16, 11:53 AM

Oh I understand the difference but I think many liberals do not understand the difference between conservatism and fascism and their voices are amplified, deliberately it seems, by a biased media.

That's a fair point, I think fascist probably is one of the most overused words of the 20th century, and I do wonder if it's a bit like the boy who cried wolf and if the actual weight of the word has been lost over the years of misuse.
Equally, I think communist is probably not that far behind in terms of misuse, but I think it's out of a sort of deep rooted concern on both sides that either ideology could appear and cause deep destruction to a western nation.

August

11-23-16, 06:23 PM

That's a fair point, I think fascist probably is one of the most overused words of the 20th century, and I do wonder if it's a bit like the boy who cried wolf and if the actual weight of the word has been lost over the years of misuse.
Equally, I think communist is probably not that far behind in terms of misuse, but I think it's out of a sort of deep rooted concern on both sides that either ideology could appear and cause deep destruction to a western nation.

I think it's more the fear of totalitarianism whatever the flavor.

Buddahaid

11-23-16, 09:17 PM

Good point. Happy Thanksgiving.

yubba

11-23-16, 09:28 PM

On thanksgiving ?? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/21/police-citing-ongoing-riot-use-water-cannons-on-dakota-access-protesters-in-freezing-weather/

Dowly

11-24-16, 04:51 AM

HunterICX

11-24-16, 04:59 AM

So what Administration is water cannoning Indians On thanksgiving ?? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/21/police-citing-ongoing-riot-use-water-cannons-on-dakota-access-protesters-in-freezing-weather/

Answer: None

If you actually red the article you'll discover that this incident took place the 20th.

yubba

11-24-16, 06:58 AM

Answer: None

If you actually red the article you'll discover that this incident took place the 20th.

Close enough,, would it, been better to have said the week of Thanksgiving,,???well we still got 18 hrs left I'm sure your police state isn't going to sit down and break bread with them,, so why no water cannons on anti Trump protesters ??? So how you like your fascist police state,,, The Bundy's and us labeled terrorist have shown the world that you can beat a lawless government. future reference it's read not red... I just love asking questions you can't answer..

Oberon

11-24-16, 07:10 AM

I think it's more the fear of totalitarianism whatever the flavor.

Yes, I think that's something that both sides can agree on.

I'm sure your police state

http://www.webklik.nl/user_files/2011_07/290396/Dutch_settlers.jpg

HunterICX

11-24-16, 07:21 AM

Close enough,, would it, been better to have said the week of Thanksgiving,,???

Maybe.

well we still got 18 hrs left I'm sure your police state isn't going to sit down and break bread with them,, so why no water cannons on anti Trump protesters ??? So how you like your fascist police state,,, The Bundy's and us labeled terrorist have shown the world that you can beat a lawless government.Your powers of observation is seriously lacking.

future reference it's read not red... I just love asking questions you can't answer..Well excuse me for having a typo once in a while and I love how you aim those questions at the wrong person if you take note of my location which also serves as a reference to my previous statement.

Jimbuna

11-24-16, 10:29 AM

I just love asking questions you can't answer..

That reminds me, you haven't responded to the last couple of questions/requests I've asked of you either.

One step closer to the precipice.

Maybe.

Your powers of observation is seriously lacking.

Well excuse me for having a typo once in a while and I love how you aim those questions at the wrong person if you take note of my location which also serves as a reference to my previous statement.

I don't know why you bother taking the bait but in fairness though, you're not the only one.

yubba

11-24-16, 10:42 AM

That reminds me, you haven't responded to the last couple of questions/requests I've asked of you either.

One step closer to the precipice.

I don't know why you bother taking the bait but in fairness though, you're not the only one.

well I did know you asked any,, feel free to fire away,,, it's so nice to finally to celebrate Thanks Giving and not have to apologize for the founding of this great Nation,, and also not being considered an enemy of the state in believing so,, so what's your question,,,, but of course I have one too ,, where has Communism ever worked with out killing millions ??

yubba

11-24-16, 10:46 AM

Yes, I think that's something that both sides can agree on.

http://www.webklik.nl/user_files/2011_07/290396/Dutch_settlers.jpg

remember we were British before we beat back that police state,, twice

HunterICX

11-24-16, 11:01 AM

I don't know why you bother taking the bait but in fairness though, you're not the only one.

Slow morning at work, was bored and had nothing better to do at the time.

Jimbuna

11-24-16, 11:09 AM

Slow morning at work, was bored and had nothing better to do at the time.

Must be really slow and boring :)

Oberon

11-24-16, 11:19 AM

remember we were British before we beat back that police state,, twice

Put your glasses on.

Bilge_Rat

11-24-16, 11:36 AM

interesting, JILL STEIN is asking for a recount of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

it will cost $2 million.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/jill-stein-recount-three-states-election-hacks-231814

Now Jill Stein has no interest whatsoever in asking for a recount and paying $2 million for it since she can never become President. :hmmm:

My money is on the Clintons being behind it. Pennsylvania (20), Michigan (16) and Wisconsin (10) have a total of 46 electoral votes. If they should all swing to Clinton, she would win 278 to 260. Trump's lead in all three is only around 110k votes, i.e. PA: +70k, WI: +27k, MI: +11k.

so much for respecting the results of the election. :haha:

Oberon

11-24-16, 12:04 PM

No real surprises there, after all if it had gone the other way, with Clinton winning on EV and Trump on PV then you'd bet your bottom dollar Mr "I'll Accept it if I win" would be calling for a recount. :03: That's if he was actually running to win and not just for the publicity, of course, which is another possibility.

Doubt that it'll pan out though, and I still think Trump will be President come January.

Platapus

11-24-16, 12:32 PM

On thanksgiving ?? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/21/police-citing-ongoing-riot-use-water-cannons-on-dakota-access-protesters-in-freezing-weather/

Which administration?

Well if you read the article, it clearly said it was the Morton County Sheriff's Department, so that would be the North Dakota Administration. I assume you are trying to make some political statement about North Dakota?

yubba

11-24-16, 01:43 PM

Which administration?

Well if you read the article, it clearly said it was the Morton County Sheriff's Department, so that would be the North Dakota Administration. I assume you are trying to make some political statement about North Dakota?

what's there to read and where's the department of injustice,, I would think liberals would be going out of their minds that big oil is treating native americans so poorly.. Obama sure didn't want the keystone pipe line,, why is he silent on this ???

Oberon

11-24-16, 01:48 PM

Obama sure didn't want the keystone pipe line,, why is he silent on this ???

Obama speaks - "OMG, Obummer is anti-business, he's a stupid communist muslim."
Obama silent - "OMG, Obama won't support liberals over the pipeline!"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/bc/Klingon_warbirds_surround_the_Kobayashi_Maru.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091115180412&path-prefix=en

yubba

11-24-16, 01:49 PM

Put your glasses on.
We were also British subjects on the first Thanksgiving ,, giving thanks we had a new land too escape Religious persecution..

yubba

11-24-16, 01:51 PM

Obama speaks - "OMG, Obummer is anti-business, he's a stupid communist muslim."
Obama silent - "OMG, Obama won't support liberals over the pipeline!"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/bc/Klingon_warbirds_surround_the_Kobayashi_Maru.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091115180412&path-prefix=en
nothing gets by you. well maybe the muslim invasion

Oberon

11-24-16, 01:52 PM

We were also British subjects on the first Thanksgiving ,, giving thanks we had a new land too escape Religious persecution..

http://www.webklik.nl/user_files/2011_07/290396/Dutch_settlers.jpg

So these are British then?

Oberon

11-24-16, 02:00 PM

nothing gets by you. well maybe the muslim invasion

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4617565/michael-winner-calm-down-o.gif

Mr Quatro

11-24-16, 02:26 PM

what's there to read and where's the department of injustice,, I would think liberals would be going out of their minds that big oil is treating native americans so poorly.. Obama sure didn't want the keystone pipe line,, why is he silent on this ???

You are so wrong it hurts ... Obama is doing the cotton eyed joe with SA

Saudi Arabia didn't want the pipe line that's why oil is below $50 a barrel ($47.96) they want to stop the shale oil and keep America dependent on their exports.

Shale oil is an unconventional oil produced from oil shale rock fragments by pyrolysis, hydrogenation, or thermal dissolution. These processes convert the organic matter within the rock (kerogen) into synthetic oil and gas. The pipe line is a good work in progress :yep:

yubba

11-24-16, 03:13 PM

You are so wrong it hurts ... Obama is doing the cotton eyed joe with SA

Saudi Arabia didn't want the pipe line that's why oil is below $50 a barrel ($47.96) they want to stop the shale oil and keep America dependent on their exports.

The pipe line is a good work in progress :yep:

I knew that,, my adopted Marine Corps Brother rough necks natural gas wells I'd go but the cold doesn't agree with me,,, you are correct the Saudis dropped the price of oil to force american oil drillers out of business,, I have had threads up on this before we got more untapped energy under our feet than we know what to do with and our government knows it and has been lying to us for decades to see how they could steal it from we the people,, they almost got away with Thank God for Trump.

yubba

11-24-16, 03:21 PM

http://www.webklik.nl/user_files/2011_07/290396/Dutch_settlers.jpg

So these are British then?

you can do better than that,,, I remember back when we were banning the Rebel flag,,, I said they should also ban the British flag ,,, there has been more death and conquest under the British flag,, than the American flag or the Rebel flag put together..I don't see the Royals going around the world on a apology tour,,. maybe they should.

Oberon

11-24-16, 03:53 PM

you can do better than that,,,

Well, at least I know my own nations history, and also can read user profiles, so I have that going for me, I guess. :hmmm:

Mr Quatro

11-24-16, 04:35 PM

I knew that,, my adopted Marine Corps Brother rough necks natural gas wells I'd go but the cold doesn't agree with me,,, you are correct the Saudis dropped the price of oil to force american oil drillers out of business,, I have had threads up on this before we got more untapped energy under our feet than we know what to do with and our government knows it and has been lying to us for decades to see how they could steal it from we the people,, they almost got away with Thank God for Trump.

Okay, I forgive you ... I thought you had missed the SA connection is the one against the pipeline. :up:

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 05:35 PM

...Thank God for Trump.

I'm fairly sure He will deny all responsibility. :03:

yubba

11-24-16, 05:38 PM

Well, at least I know my own nations history, and also can read user profiles, so I have that going for me, I guess. :hmmm:

And I know ours,, well enough that we sent you retreating to England twice,, saved you from the fascists twice,,, I guess you are still bitter about BRexit,, I'm glad we crushed the Clinton Dynasty and have the Globalist reeling,, I guess what I really got going for me is that I can shoot better than most,,, and can just about sight anything in from a bottle rocket out of a tube to getting the sights to adjust in IL-2,,, it was mapped in the keyboard all this time,, 1 click up in head movement gives you 200 yards added planes are bore sighted to 200 yards TESTED.

yubba

11-24-16, 05:42 PM

I'm fairly sure He will deny all responsibility. :03:
just like Hillary and Obama,,with Benghazi where were they for 14 hrs ???? or the 6 billion dollars she lost in the State Department ,,, how do you loose 6 billion dollars,, the same way you loose 30,000 e-mails

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 05:47 PM

Somehow seems relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

Oberon

11-24-16, 05:51 PM

And I know ours,, saved you from the fascists twice,,,

Yes, clearly you really do know your history...bravo...

https://media.giphy.com/media/eFQkP2s7HLwSk/giphy.gif

yubba

11-24-16, 06:14 PM

Yes, clearly you really do know your history...bravo...

https://media.giphy.com/media/eFQkP2s7HLwSk/giphy.gif

hope you'd be happy with the IL-2 sight fix,,,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-bwY-40QAY

yubba

11-24-16, 06:19 PM

Somehow seems relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

I'm still a Free man,, unless you want to get off the couch and do something about that.

Oberon

11-24-16, 06:20 PM

https://66.media.tumblr.com/2e494c8d6cf925912180b3cc91969f5b/tumblr_n9g6luMjbo1s7w437o1_500.gif

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 06:27 PM

I'm still a Free man,, unless you want to get off the couch and do something about that.

I'm currently rounding up German mercenaries as we speak. Sadly, I can't seem to find enough flintlock muskets and scarlet coats online, so we may have to make do with pea-shooters and high-visibility construction workers' jackets. Expect us as soon as we have favourable winds. :salute:

yubba

11-24-16, 06:31 PM

I'm currently rounding up German mercenaries as we speak. Sadly, I can't seem to find enough flintlock muskets and scarlet coats online, so we may have to make do with pea-shooters and high-visibility construction workers' jackets. Expect us as soon as we have favourable winds. :salute:

sometime in this lifetime,, will be waiting with bells on ,,.https://www.facebook.com/elliot.barker.568/posts/10210000568308188?comment_id=10210000633869827&reply_comment_id=10210000658030431&notif_t=feed_comment_reply&notif_id=1480030061053731

Oberon

11-24-16, 06:39 PM

yubba

11-24-16, 07:16 PM

I'd assist but I'm still fighting Kaiser Wilhelm II's nazi hordes. :hmmm:
I'd be more worried about your isis friends you know how they get when they'r not chopping innocents heads off, on a daily bases,

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 07:22 PM

I'd be more worried about your isis friends you know how they get when they'r not chopping innocents heads off, on a daily bases,

I'm beginning to wonder whether they put Yubba in the oven by mistake, and left the turkey surfing the internet. It seems the most rational explanation for all this...

eddie

11-24-16, 07:55 PM

I'm beginning to wonder whether they put Yubba in the oven by mistake, and left the turkey surfing the internet. It seems the most rational explanation for all this...

:haha:

Reece

11-24-16, 07:57 PM

I'm beginning to wonder whether they put Yubba in the oven by mistake, and left the turkey surfing the internet. It seems the most rational explanation for all this...
Yes I tend to agree Andy!:hmmm:

Oberon

11-24-16, 08:41 PM

I'd be more worried about your isis friends you know how they get when they'r not chopping innocents heads off, on a daily bases,

Worry not, brother. It is all in the hands of Allah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz3oWmDUW1Q

I'm beginning to wonder whether they put Yubba in the oven by mistake, and left the turkey surfing the internet. It seems the most rational explanation for all this...

This...this wins the internet. Well done, sir! :yeah:

yubba

11-24-16, 09:16 PM

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Then get a copy of the Constitution,and learn it,, I don't care how much you spent in college to study Marx and Basket Weaving that era is over,, if I were you I'd get my money back.

Oberon

11-24-16, 09:21 PM

I prefer the original version:

Concessimus eciam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri, pro nobis et heredibus nostri in perpetuum, omnes libertates subscriptas, habendas et tenendas eis et heredibus suis, de nobis et heredibus nostris.

:yeah:

eddie

11-24-16, 09:27 PM

Oberon

11-24-16, 09:31 PM

I've seen the original constitution on display, don't recall seeing this [note 1] written in the original,lol

Clearly a liberal conspiracy is afoot, Obama must have altered the constitution to make himself Emperor. :yep:

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 09:45 PM

...Marx and Basket Weaving...

An interesting topic, clearly worthy of further study:
Ever since the hominoids began to walk erectly, their hands became free to make tools in the production of their livelihood—first very primitive, but gradually evolving into well-constructed artifacts. Man discovers, improves, constructs, uses all kinds of forms. The number concept grows. Man builds tents, houses; makes baskets, bags, nets, pottery, and weapons. Through the millennia, first very slowly, then more rapidly, a great amount of knowledge of a mathematical art is obtained. This is a dynamic approach, the approach of homo laborans. It is implicit in the Marxian point of view, and we find it, for instance, in a note by Frederick Engels (1885), where he points out that the basic ideas of line, surface, angle, and number are all borrowed from reality in the interplay of Man and Nature. http://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/handle/11299/149158/gerdes.pdf?sequence=1

I'm sure that there is at minimum a good undergraduate essay on the topic, though if one were to expand this to include later feminist discourse on material culture (which would no doubt have something to say about 'man' in the quote above) one could probably wrangle a doctorate out of it. Marilyn Strathern's The Gender of the Gift is probably highly relevant here, though as I recall it discussed the weaving of nets rather than baskets in amongst its critique of inherent assumptions pervading much prior ethnographic work.

yubba

11-24-16, 10:35 PM

Ever since the hominoids began to walk erectly, their hands became free to make tools in the production of their livelihood—first very primitive, but gradually evolving into well-constructed artifacts. Man discovers, improves, constructs, uses all kinds of forms. The number concept grows. Man builds tents, houses; makes baskets, bags, nets, pottery, and weapons. Through the millennia, first very slowly, then more rapidly, a great amount of knowledge of a mathematical art is obtained, there will always be bums and con men like Marx and Engels,, to fill your little mushes of dreams of ponzie schemes and false ideals that have never worked or ever will,,, with out death and misery ,,Read the Constitution,, we tried it your way and all you did was wear a hole through the race card and if that race card was the queen of hearts,, well she'd have a hole in her chest,,. good job 20 trillion in debt ,, 12 to 20 million more on foodstamps,,millions out of work,,people flooding across our borders,, thousands dead in Chicago,, cops being killed on a weekly bases, cities burn when a criminal gets shot,, staring down a war with Russia, a government so corrupt it believes it is above the law,and thinks the normal American citizen is the problem for the countries woes ,, and people can't understand why Trump won,,..LOL

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 11:22 PM

I'm sure you have read the Constitution, Yubba, but do you actually understand what the big words mean?

AndyJWest

11-24-16, 11:49 PM

Here's an interesting article:

How Karl Marx Helped Shape the Republican Party
by MICHAEL PERELMAN

Those economic textbooks that discuss Karl Marx are almost certain to charge him with the gross error of ignoring the role of nature and natural resources in the economic process. Nonetheless, Marx has a legitimate claim as the first environmental economist, a direction that he took in the midst of the Civil War. Marx was both an economic victim of the Civil War and apparently a major force in determining its outcome. If this claim does not seem too outlandish, bear with me when I tell you that Marx was also an important figure in the Republican Party. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/25/how-karl-marx-helped-shape-the-republican-party/

Contentious, certainly. But worth thinking about. For those willing and able to think, rather than mouth vacuous blather.

yubba

11-25-16, 08:00 AM

I'm sure you have read the Constitution, Yubba, but do you actually understand what the big words mean?

It pretty much says I don't have too cater to mental illnesses.,, communism, socialism,, or any other ism you can think up,, see your Saul Alinsky tactics don't work any more,, well until jan 22 that's when you won't have a government to back them up,,, just like stupid you can't fix your isms to work in this country,.

yubba

11-25-16, 08:07 AM

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/25/how-karl-marx-helped-shape-the-republican-party/

Contentious, certainly. But worth thinking about. For those willing and able to think, rather than mouth vacuous blather.

Marx was a drunken bum living in his parents,basement, thinking up a con to get something for nothing,,, some how this sounds awfully familiar

VipertheSniper

11-25-16, 08:34 AM

It pretty much says I don't have too cater to mental illnesses.,, communism, socialism,, or any other ism you can think up,, see your Saul Alinsky tactics don't work any more,, well until jan 22 that's when you won't have a government to back them up,,, just like stupid you can't fix your isms to work in this country,.

Hey yubba can you, by any chance make atleast one post, in which it is possible to follow your train of thought?

What is the point you're trying to make here (in this thread in general)?

I mean I get that you're gloating that "your" side won, but your incoherent ramblings make you just look like a fool.

Also of the top of my head: I'm only vaguely familiar with the US constitution, but I'm pretty sure it says nothing about socialism or communism. Unless the framers of the constitution were clairvoyants, I don't see how it could.

Mr Quatro

11-25-16, 09:06 AM

Where's Jim or Steve ... this is getting out of hand :yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LBmUwi6mEo

Rockstar

11-25-16, 09:47 AM

yubba

11-25-16, 10:22 AM

We the people, you mean people just like you not all the people?

it says what it says,, if you live within the borders of this country,, it means all people,, can be free of tyranny,, don't like it move too Cuba and tell me how that works out for you.

yubba

11-25-16, 10:36 AM

Hey yubba can you, by any chance make atleast one post, in which it is possible to follow your train of thought?

What is the point you're trying to make here (in this thread in general)?

I mean I get that you're gloating that "your" side won, but your incoherent ramblings make you just look like a fool.

Also of the top of my head: I'm only vaguely familiar with the US constitution, but I'm pretty sure it says nothing about socialism or communism. Unless the framers of the constitution were clairvoyants, I don't see how it could.

Tyranny is tyranny no matter what ever ism you put behind it,, they knew this day would come,, that our government would become corrupt and gave us ways to combat it with out violence or with,, I'm a Marine Corps Vet sworn to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic I perfer the violence that way the enemies of,, will learn something,, if the shoe was on the other foot,, isms wouldn't have a problem lining like minded people like me in front of freshly dug ditches in which history has shown time and time again.

Jimbuna

11-25-16, 10:47 AM

Where's Jim or Steve ... this is getting out of hand :yep:

Oh, I'm seldom that far away. Simply watching over things and inserting the occasional prompt/warning.

I will add one thing though....anyone having concerns regarding any posts in any threads would be best served using the report button as that is a pretty good measure for the moderation team to adjudicate on.

VipertheSniper

11-25-16, 11:12 AM

Tyranny is tyranny what no matter what ever ism you put behind it,, they knew this day would come,, that our government would become corrupt and gave us ways to combat it with out violence or with,, I'm a Marine Corps Vet sworn to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic I perfer the violence that way the enemies of,, will learn something,, if the shoe was on the other foot,, isms wouldn't have a problem lining like minded people like me in front of freshly dug ditches in which history has shown time and time again.

You mean like racism for example?

Where is your outrage when the Republicans pull stunts like this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/11/21/pat_mccrory_is_trying_to_steal_the_north_carolina_ governorship.html

Rockstar

11-25-16, 11:55 AM

it says what it says,, if you live within the borders of this country,, it means all people,, can be free of tyranny,, don't like it move too Cuba and tell me how that works out for you.

I've been to Cuba, it's pretty nice

yubba

11-25-16, 12:18 PM

I've been to Cuba, it's pretty nice

Depends on what side of the wire you are on ...,, USMC Gitmo I had a pretty good time defending the base when we kick Castro's butt out of Grenada,, I got to watch a squad of Cuban elite regulars get taken out by one of their own mines for all I know they are still hanging in the wire, I guess they weren't so elite, yeah nice place. What you didn't stay ??? Right no Subsim.

yubba

11-25-16, 12:22 PM

You mean like racism for example?

Where is your outrage when the Republicans pull stunts like this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/11/21/pat_mccrory_is_trying_to_steal_the_north_carolina_ governorship.html

what your racism,, you are the one that thinks minorities aren't smart enough to function in this Constitutional Republic,, with out your help as long it enriches yourself. Remember the kkk was the strong arm of the Democratic party no matter how you think you can spin it.

Oberon

11-25-16, 12:25 PM

isms

"I have the courage to display myself as a 'barbarian'. I cannot regard the works of impressionism, futurism, cubism and other 'isms' as the highest revelations of the artistic genius. I do not understand them. I get no joy from them."

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 12:41 PM

Remember the kkk was the strong arm of the Democratic party no matter how you think you can spin it.

And, as I have already pointed out, Karl Marx provided direct assistance to the early Republican Party. You should probably read Marx's letter to Abraham Lincoln, and the response from U.S. Ambassador Charles Francis Adams: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

yubba

11-25-16, 01:31 PM

And, as I have already pointed out, Karl Marx provided direct assistance to the early Republican Party. You should probably read Marx's letter to Abraham Lincoln, and the response from U.S. Ambassador Charles Francis Adams: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

and yet we remained a Constitutional Republic after all that simply amazing. You want change and revolt against this dully elected government have at it,,, be prepared to be held accountable for your lawless actions.

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 02:02 PM

and yet we remained a Constitutional Republic after all that simply amazing. You want change and revolt against this dully elected government have at it,,, be prepared to be held accountable for your lawless actions.

It would be impossible for me to 'revolt' against the U.S. government, since I'm not a U.S. citizen.

VipertheSniper

11-25-16, 02:11 PM

what your racism,, you are the one that thinks minorities aren't smart enough to function in this Constitutional Republic,, with out your help as long it enriches yourself. Remember the kkk was the strong arm of the Democratic party no matter how you think you can spin it.

Was the strong arm of the Democratic party, was being the operational word. What does that matter now, when people in the Republican party are creating hoops for minorities to jump through in order to vote, just because you don't like how they're most likely to vote?

Is that not essentially tyranny for them? Are they not Americans that have the right to vote, especially, as easy as the majority population?

Oberon

11-25-16, 02:32 PM

The Bundy's and us labeled terrorist have shown the world that you can beat a lawless government.

you want change and revolt against this dully elected government have at it,,, be prepared to be held accountable for your lawless actions.

https://media.giphy.com/media/IMuqnp96sdhyE/giphy.gif

yubba

11-25-16, 02:59 PM

https://media.giphy.com/media/IMuqnp96sdhyE/giphy.gif

So who's lawless ??? ,, Trump isn't president yet ,, I don't recall rioting when Obama was elected for his second term,, we fought it out in the courts,,through out the states and at the voting booth..,, with a Trump win is a total rejection to the liberal agenda maybe you'll think before you call someone stupid and racist,, I'm not the one with egg on my face,,,I'm also a salesman I don't insult customers to buy what I'm selling,, liberals just have the DNA of past slave owners and can't help themselves wanting to control people,, secret no one wants to be controlled by another,, that was why the Constitution was written.

Buddahaid

11-25-16, 03:26 PM

A close election doesn't in any way represent a total rejection.

Oberon

11-25-16, 03:48 PM

So who's lawless ???

http://67.media.tumblr.com/436dff53f15d9f7f10b675a40faf1ce3/tumblr_ncbd1dtKCz1tv4k5po1_500.gif

So...the Bundys are heroes for rejecting a lawfully elected government, yet liberals are not heroes for rejecting a lawfully elected government.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:06 PM

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 04:26 PM

...This video from Prager University....

For the benefit of those who don't know, this so-called 'University' is nothing but a personal website.

yubba

11-25-16, 04:28 PM

An interesting sidelight of all the isms that the American Constitution does not treat, marxism, communism, socialism, another ism did not appear, and that is capitalism. Why don't any of the isms appear? They did not exist yet. The only ism that was known was mercantilism, as practiced by all the world powers, England, France, Spain, others. Under mercantilism a colony was allowed to make some profit, but its main purpose was to serve the aims of its home country: sending resources and products, paying taxes, claiming and occupying territory for the purpose of keeping the other power centers out.

This video from Prager University explains clearly the social and economic zeitgeist of the period, as well as the inescapable logic behind preferring capitalism to socialism.

well that's nice,, but the constitution wasn't ratified till Jun 21, 1788, and only after a bitter revolution with the King of England ,, the framers put forth a document knowing full well man would corrupt himself almost fore seeing isms,, uncanny ain't it,,so no one man or group of men could become tyranical to the citizens of this nation,, at no time is the Constitution up for election ,unless there is a convention of states which is right around the corner and only then it takes 2/3s of the states to change any thing so how many states Hillary win ??, I have to say you made a good run at it,, but more people chose to be free and you lost,,..but you still have 20 days,, but you don't have the backing of the military or the 40 some million oath sworn military vets.

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 04:34 PM

...more people chose to be free...

Possibly. But the candidate who got less votes appears to have won anyway...

...you don't have the backing of the military or the 40 some million oath sworn military vets.

Neither do you.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:35 PM

For the benefit of those who don't know, this so-called 'University' is nothing but a personal website.
Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner. It performs a function that our public and private universities have abdicated. It is dedicated to the principle that if you are right you have no need to lie or invent fake news.

Its ideas ARE falsifiable and can be discussed in good faith both by those who agree or disagree with the conclusions therein. But "nothing but a personal website" is just a distraction to prejudice readers from considering the ideas contained in the video. The tactic itself reveals weakness in the person using it.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:36 PM

well that's nice,, but the constitution wasn't ratified till Jun 21, 1788, and only after a bitter revolution with the King of England ,,
Even a true statement is valuless if it is entirely irrelevant. The above is an irrelevant comment.

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 04:43 PM

Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner. It performs a function that our public and private universities have abdicated. It is dedicated to the principle that if you are right you have no need to lie or invent fake news.

Its ideas ARE falsifiable and can be discussed in good faith both by those who agree or disagree with the conclusions therein. But "nothing but a personal website" is just a distraction to prejudice readers from considering the ideas contained in the video. The tactic itself reveals weakness in the person using it.

Making false claims to 'university' status is a fundamentally dishonest tactic. If the ideas are any good, you don't need to lie to present them. Though I note it seems to be rather fashionable amongst some of the U.S.'s leading lights to found bogus educational institutions...

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:44 PM

Possibly. But the candidate who got less votes appears to have won anyway...
And that is entirely right and proper. Watch this, as I did. It changed my opinion from the one you now hold to that of profound respect for founders much wiser than I. Sometimes expediency is NOT the highest good. Rights are protected by laws and by rules, not by democracy.

Democracy is two cats and a mouse voting over what's for dinner. Laws protect the rights of minorities and individuals from the tyranny of mob rule: pure democracy, which always fails. It is replaced by pure dictatorship, which is seldom a good thing. As such, our rules are determined to avoid that end.

This video is how I discovered Prager U and is a prime example of how to state a position positively, backed by facts and with reason. Is it possible to disagree with it or parts of it? Of course, but it is a reasonable and fact-based justification for the electoral college and why it protects your rights.

https://youtu.be/V6s7jB6-GoU

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 04:49 PM

And that is entirely right and proper. Watch this, as I did. It changed my opinion from the one you now hold...

You have precisely zero knowledge of my opinion of the U.S. electoral system.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:53 PM

Making false claims to 'university' status is a fundamentally dishonest tactic. If the ideas are any good, you don't need to lie to present them. Though I note it seems to be rather fashionable amongst some of the U.S.'s leading lights to found bogus educational institutions...
I made no false claim. I merely made the mistake of improperly adding "niversity" to their "U." It is very clear on their website what they are and what they are not.

Their website is PragerU.com. In fact, the U stands for United, not University. So you have presented a red herring, another evidence that you believe that your ideas cannot stand by their own merit, but can only be defended by subterfuge. This not to imply that yubba or others don't engage in similar tactics. Their use says the same thing about their opinions by the way. I'm not making ideologically based conclusions.

My arguments are represented by the CONTENT of the video, not who made it, whether they were "authorities" or unknown individuals, not whether a third party referred to their website by an improper name, not by what constellation the planet Mars is in now or whether it is in retrograde. All that is mere clutter to try to obscure the meaning of the content, which is worthy of discussion without prejudicial conduct.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 04:58 PM

You have precisely zero knowledge of my opinion of the U.S. electoral system.
Typical personal attack based on ignorance of anything I actually know or do not know. Personal attacks are made based on your own assessment that your position cannot stand with coercion or false logic.

So after watching the video and conducting additional research (which used to be everybody's experience in the quaint practice of Civics classes in junior and senior high schools when schools actually educated) to verify or contradict the positions stated in the video, do you think that the Electoral College is a device that protects the rights of states and citizens?

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 05:01 PM

I made no false claim. I merely made the mistake of improperly adding "niversity" to their "U." It is very clear on their website what they are and what they are not.

Their website is PragerU.com. In fact, the U stands for United, not University. So you have presented a red herring, another evidence that you believe that your ideas cannot stand by their own merit, but can only be defended by subterfuge...

Um, that's a no. It is a demonstrable fact that Dennis Prager has produced videos clearly and unambiguously labelled 'Prager University': https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/10/14/youtube-restricts-access-dershowitz-video/BpnEzzb6VS2U3VZU0tetlI/story.html

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 05:02 PM

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 05:03 PM

Typical personal attack based on ignorance of anything I actually know or do not know. Personal attacks are made based on your own assessment that your position cannot stand with coercion or false logic.

Stating a self-evident fact about your inability to read my mind is not a 'personal attack'.

Rockin Robbins

11-25-16, 05:18 PM

FYI Dennis Prager is the guy that said Muslim elected officials shouldn't be able to take their oath over the Qu'ran because American civilization (whatever the hell that is) was founded on the Bible and that sexual assaults that occurred on collegiate campuses were lies. Take his words with a fist-sized grain of salt.

Also, the "U" absolutely stands for "University".

http://www.dennisprager.com/
Did I say that Prager is God and never has any erroneous ideas? Go to https://www.prageru.com/ and see that they clearly state "Join PragerUnited" But in fact anyone can call their thing a university that wants to and it is the responsibility of people to use their own judgment to assess what the value of the word is.

Prager himself is a fallable individual. Some of his ideas then, will be correct and some incorrect. Just like everybody else! Having an incorrect idea does not falsify his correct ideas.

Again, I extend the content of the two videos I posted, not Dennis Prager, not PragerU (although they have some excellent videos. I expect they have some questionable ones too, just like everybody else). Not one detractor has tslked about their content.

There is a reason for that. I trust people to have the wisdom to form their own opinions and I trust that most of them will be correrct.

All this incindiary conduct by BOTH SIDES since the election is entirely counter-productive and harmful. Mostly it's just foolishness for foolish reasons. Hillary has it right. Now is the time to accept the results of the election and make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. We will find that opportunities abound to do good, whatever our political persuasion. Firebrands on both sides should be ignored. It would be fun to ridicule them, but now is not the time.:D:D

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 05:30 PM

Did I say that Prager is God and never has any erroneous ideas? Go to https://www.prageru.com/ and see that they clearly state "Join PragerUnited" But in fact anyone can call their thing a university that wants to and it is the responsibility of people to use their own judgment to assess what the value of the word is.

Prager himself is a fallable individual. Some of his ideas then, will be correct and some incorrect. Just like everybody else! Having an incorrect idea does not falsify his correct ideas.

Again, I extend the content of the two videos I posted, not Dennis Prager, not PragerU (although they have some excellent videos. I expect they have some questionable ones too, just like everybody else). Not one detractor has tslked about their content.

There is a reason for that. I trust people to have the wisdom to form their own opinions and I trust that most of them will be correrct.

All this incindiary conduct by BOTH SIDES since the election is entirely counter-productive and harmful. Mostly it's just foolishness for foolish reasons. Hillary has it right. Now is the time to accept the results of the election and make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. We will find that opportunities abound to do good, whatever our political persuasion. Firebrands on both sides should be ignored. It would be fun to ridicule them, but now is not the time.:D:D

You said this:

Nothing but a personal website that presents the truth in a logical, clear and non-argumentative manner.It is not the truth. It is a highly-slanted opinion that you happen to agree with. Again, this is not truth.

Also if you happen to make your way to Prager's website, which I generously linked for you, you will see the link clearly displayed as "Prager University".

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 05:39 PM

...incindiary conduct...

Expressing opinions in a crowded room? :03:

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 05:48 PM

Expressing opinions in a crowded room? :03:

The last few pages of this rather nasty thread (see what I did there) has seemed to drive the point home that any sentiment other than unqualified love and support of America's golden-haired God King is considered incendiary and is to be met with violence at the hands of old fat guys with AR-15's. And it isn't even Donald Trump's America yet.

Interesting times ahead.

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 05:53 PM

The last few pages of this rather nasty thread (see what I did there) has seemed to drive the point home that any sentiment other than unqualified love and support of America's golden-haired God King is considered incendiary and is to be met with violence at the hands of old fat guys with AR-15's. And it isn't even Donald Trump's America yet.

Interesting times ahead.

Possible I suppose, though I'm inclined to think that most of the 'old fat guys' are unlikely to follow through with it. Bye and large, political violence is more of a thing for the younger generation. And Trump doesn't seem to have so much support there.

Oberon

11-25-16, 05:53 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 05:57 PM

Possible I suppose, though I'm inclined to think that most of the 'old fat guys' are unlikely to follow through with it. Bye and large, political violence is more of a thing for the younger generation. And Trump doesn't seem to have so much support there.

It is absolutely all talk. These guys are always going on about taking to their guns and societal break down. The funny things is that a dozen steps in they'd be on their knees sucking for air. Even funnier is their idea that somehow Pfizer and Merck are going to keep manufacturing their prescription medications after the end.

Oberon

11-25-16, 06:13 PM

It is absolutely all talk. These guys are always going on about taking to their guns and societal break down.

Everyone wants a revolution until the mass bloodshed starts. :03:

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 06:16 PM

Everyone wants a revolution until the mass bloodshed starts. :03:

It is indeed the internet, where everyone is a tough guy.

yubba

11-25-16, 06:58 PM

Oberon

11-25-16, 07:05 PM

Nope, and therefore no.

Next question. :haha:

AndyJWest

11-25-16, 07:32 PM

Well,at the end of day, the 64 dollar question of the day is,,, Is or is not,, the Constitution the law of the land,, and are you going to abide by it... ????http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/11/democrats-devastated-at-state-level-in-2016-elections/

Is the U.S. Constitution the law of the land I'm living in? No. So 'abiding by it' isn't really an issue. Do I win the 64 dollars? :D

Oberon

11-25-16, 07:33 PM

Is the U.S. Constitution the law of the land I'm living in? No. So 'abiding by it' isn't really an issue. Do I win the 64 dollars? :D

In before either a) Muslim invasion comment or b) You're not American therefore you cannot comment on American matters. :yeah:

Takeda Shingen

11-25-16, 07:38 PM

Nope, and therefore no.

Next question. :haha:

:har: :up:

Rockstar

11-25-16, 08:36 PM

you heathen brit, believe and be saved!

Honestly I just thought the article was an interesting read and didnt know where to put it.

Civil Religion in America. by Robert N. Bellah

https://web.archive.org/web/20050306124338/http://www.robertbellah.com/articles_5.htm

Oberon

11-25-16, 08:50 PM

you heathen brit, believe and be saved!

Civil Religion in America. by Robert N. Bellah

https://web.archive.org/web/20050306124338/http://www.robertbellah.com/articles_5.htm

Touch the screen, touch the screen and be saved!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35K6vQRt67g

GT182

11-25-16, 09:50 PM

This will help you keep track of things. ;)

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=263&iso=20170120T00&msg=Time%20left%20until%20Obama%20leaves%20office

yubba

11-25-16, 09:55 PM

Well I would have thought playing Silent Hunter 2, 3, and 5 would have prepare you for such a defeat,, Americanism not Globalism,,,..:Kaleun_Salute:

Oberon

11-25-16, 10:31 PM

NUTS

Kptlt. Neuerburg

11-25-16, 10:40 PM

NUTS
:har: Wait a minute... don't you mean Nüsse!

Oberon

11-27-16, 05:31 PM

Even The Donald thinks that there was something fishy in the vote!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664

Someone really needs to take his twitter away again...

GT182

11-27-16, 07:52 PM

Even The Donald thinks that there was something fishy in the vote!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664

Someone really needs to take his twitter away again...

No, they need to take his Twitter away permanently. :yep:

Oberon

11-28-16, 07:08 AM

No, they need to take his Twitter away permanently. :yep:

At least we know where he's getting his information from:

http://www.infowars.com/report-three-million-votes-in-presidential-election-cast-by-illegal-aliens/

https://mackquigley.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/alexjoneslunatic.gif?w=590

Bilge_Rat

11-28-16, 08:33 AM

hmm, let's see, liberal activists claim the Russians hacked the voting machines in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, exactly the 3 states Clinton would need to win, without any proof whatsoever,

mainstream news media reports it as "computer scientist claims russians hacked voting machines". This despite the fact that the moron forgot that Michigan only uses PAPER ballot. :doh:

step 2, Jill Stein asks for a recount in said 3 states and quickly raises $7 million from liberal donors. Clinton campaign signs on board and also raises doubts about vote.

mainstream news media reports it as staright news, even though there is no evidence of hacking, according to Obama White House.

a data analyst claims, using pretty much the same type of "evidence" as the "computer scientist" that up to 3,000,000 non- citizens may have voted which certainly is entirely possible since most states do not require any ID whatsoever.

mainstream news media reports it has "conservative activist claims 3,000,000 illegal immigrants voted without any proof whatsoever".

so much for giving Trump a chance. :ping:

you really have to wonder what the Clintons are up to, do they really think they can cast enough doubt to have a majority of electors switch their votes? Isnt that a " coup d'etat" ?

or is the purpose to "delegitimize" Trump's presidency before it even begins.

what a bunch of sore losers.

Oberon

11-28-16, 08:46 AM

Trump: It's rigged!
Clinton: No it isn't.
Trump: Definitely rigged!
Clinton: Okay, let's audit.
Trump: They're trying to steal the election!

Oh, this is just the beginning, the left is going to give Trump a smooth a ride as the right gave Obama. :yep:

Bilge_Rat

11-28-16, 09:12 AM

Oh, this is just the beginning, the left is going to give Trump a smooth a ride as the right gave Obama. :yep:

a fair point. :ping:

August

11-28-16, 09:56 AM

At least we know where he's getting his information from:

Never heard of this guy but according to the link you posted the information comes from "Greg Phillips of the VoteFraud.org organization".

AndyJWest

11-28-16, 11:02 AM

Never heard of this guy but according to the link you posted the information comes from "Greg Phillips of the VoteFraud.org organization".

...who from the look of is a Trump supporter who was plugging the Trump 'elections are rigged' claim for some time. http://electionnightgatekeepers.com/

August

11-28-16, 01:29 PM

...who from the look of is a Trump supporter who was plugging the Trump 'elections are rigged' claim for some time. http://electionnightgatekeepers.com/

So?

VipertheSniper

11-28-16, 01:45 PM

a data analyst claims, using pretty much the same type of "evidence" as the "computer scientist" that up to 3,000,000 non- citizens may have voted which certainly is entirely possible since most states do not require any ID whatsoever.

.

I really got to ask:

How does voter registration work in the US? Surely when you register, your status as a citizen is checked, right? So how would an illegal immigrant end up on the voting rolls?

Is the needed documentation that easy to forge?

Also since we have to provide ID on the way to the voting booth in Austria, I wouldn't even know how voting would work without it.

I mean what do you do? Say your name and address and then a check from the official if you're on the list?

AndyJWest

11-28-16, 01:47 PM

So?

So, if Trump supporters are claiming that the election is rigged, they should (a) provide verifiable evidence, and (b) not complain when someone exercises their legal right to have results audited. Personally I think that it is highly unlikely that any irregularities found are going to be significant enough to affect the result, but can't see why anyone with a legitimate interest in the democratic process should object to an investigation - provided it is based on actual evidence, rather than conspiracy theories, as presented on the VoteFraud.org/ElectionNightGatekeepers.com website:
Spoiler alert: the 5 Big TV Networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX) and related big media are all owned by those who have wrested the power to issue the world’s money. For short hand, we might call this the “Goldman-Sachs/Federal Reserve” crowd. This power behind the Big Media Cabal ALSO OWNS THE 3 COMPANIES that “counts” 95% of the USA vote on secret computer programs, – software that is totally off limits to election officials and everyone else, because of contracts our election officials in each county sign with one of these 3 mega-Election Vendor corporations, or their smaller front companies. Incredible, but true.

Such tinfoil-hat websites are clearly not credible sources for claims about election results.

Oberon

11-28-16, 02:02 PM

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/nov/18/blog-posting/no-3-million-undocumented-immigrants-did-not-vote-/

As evidence of its claim, InfoWars’ headline refers to a report from VoteFraud.org and tweets from Gregg Phillips, whose Twitter profile says he’s the founder of VoteStand, a voter fraud reporting app.
There is no report from VoteFraud.org, however, and Phillips told PolitiFact he is not affiliated with that website. The information comes from tweets made by from Phillips on Nov. 11 and Nov. 13.

Still, I have to admire the irony in a President-Elect who first claimed the election was rigged, then claimed he won in a "very open and successful presidential election", who was upset when people protested it, then got upset when Jill Stein suggested and got support for a recount in one state, and then claims that the election was rigged again, but whilst still protesting against an audit of it. :doh:

Oberon

11-28-16, 02:17 PM

The Associated Press takes a look at the 'Alt-Right':

https://blog.ap.org/behind-the-news/writing-about-the-alt-right

mapuc

11-28-16, 02:33 PM

I have a question about making laws, resolutions and other political things between the Election and the change of President

First a note

I saw a friend had postet a link from something called DCCLOTHESLINE
(I haven't clicked on it, which I newer do on FB)

The headline said:

"Media Silent as House passes resolution for Syrian No-fly zone - Provoking war with Russia"

Here's my question do a President or the other politicians make such type of resolution.

Well I really don't know how to put my question-Here in Denmark there are no laws or meeting in the parliament from the day the Prime Minister say the Danes has to elect new government and the new government have been elected. So I thought it was somehow the Same in USA.

Markus

Mr Quatro

11-28-16, 02:46 PM

Still, I have to admire the irony in a President-Elect who first claimed the election was rigged, then claimed he won in a "very open and successful presidential election", who was upset when people protested it, then got upset when Jill Stein suggested and got support for a recount in one state, and then claims that the election was rigged again, but whilst still protesting against an audit of it. :doh:

You left out the fact that Trump was protesting even before the election started that the election was rigged, plus said the fuzzy logic that the US Border Patrol was going to let the illegals in on election day so that they could vote (presumably for the democrat's).

I want to love this man Donald Trump as the next POTUS, but he keeps throwing these unreasonable suggestions out there, like the one that says that Hillary didn't win the popular vote due the election was rigged with 8 million voters being dead. :o

Now I think the election is going to be rigged due to the EC being told to vote for Hillary instead of Trump. I think they call them faithless electoral voters or something like that.

It sounds impossible to everyone on here and everywhere I go that Trump could have 38 EC votes taken away with these faithless EC voters and given over to Hillary by writing her name instead of Trumps, right?

With me so far, but what if they do get that many or even more to cross over from faithful Republican voters to faithless voters?

Sooner or later the Supreme Court will have to fast track and decide if these 38 or more EC voters have that right ... according to all of the records I have read they do have that right to vote for anyone they want to except in the some 16 states that say you can't.

With me so far?

What if the US Supreme Court rules that these voters were convinced (conned) that they were doing the right thing and the people urging them to do this offered to pay their fines?

That's bribery and the 38 or more EC cross over votes would then be considered to be null and void.

Now the US Congress gets to decide who the next POTUS is ...

I think I'm on to something here ... the US Congress would not be able to decide who gets these EC votes, because they are now void leaving neither side with the necessary 270 EC votes to win.

You can make a list, but no one knows who they would select :yep:

August

11-28-16, 02:48 PM

So, if Trump supporters are claiming that the election is rigged, they should

All I was addressing is Oberons claim that Trump got his information from that guy in the video clip. Maybe he did maybe he didn't but the information seems to have come from someone else originally. In any case I really don't care what you think about the validity of the information.

Oberon

11-28-16, 02:49 PM

August

11-28-16, 02:55 PM

That's come up a few times before about the faithless voters, we'll see when it comes down to the vote but I have my doubts that it'll go that way, I don't think it'd be worth the hassle and harrassment the electors would get if they voted against the EV. A couple might, but not enough to swing it completely for Hillary.

These Republican nominated electors would not only have to decide to change their vote but change it to Clinton and that's just not going to happen.

Oberon

11-28-16, 02:57 PM

"Media Silent as House passes resolution for Syrian No-fly zone - Provoking war with Russia"

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5732/text

Section 303 of that states:

SEC. 303. Assessment of potential effectiveness of and requirements for the establishment of safe zones or a no-fly zone in Syria. (a) In general.—Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall submit to the appropriate congressional committee a report that—
(1) assesses the potential effectiveness, risks, and operational requirements of the establishment and maintenance of a no-fly zone over part or all of Syria, including—
(A) the operational and legal requirements for United States and coalition air power to establish a no-fly zone in Syria;
(B) the impact a no-fly zone in Syria would have on humanitarian and counterterrorism efforts in Syria and the surrounding region; and
(C) the potential for force contributions from other countries to establish a no-fly zone in Syria; and
(2) assesses the potential effectiveness, risks, and operational requirements for the establishment of one or more safe zones in Syria for internally displaced persons or for the facilitation of humanitarian assistance, including—
(A) the operational and legal requirements for United States and coalition forces to establish one or more safe zones in Syria;
(B) the impact one or more safe zones in Syria would have on humanitarian and counterterrorism efforts in Syria and the surrounding region; and
(C) the potential for contributions from other countries and vetted non-state actor partners to establish and maintain one or more safe zones in Syria.

In no part of that is there an authorisation for the creation of a No-Fly Zone in Syria, nor even a recommendation of one. It's essentially a proposal for research into the pros and cons of implementing one in the future.

Here's a wikipedia article on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_Syria_Civilian_Protection_Act

Oberon

11-28-16, 02:59 PM

August

11-28-16, 03:31 PM

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15036338_10154645573644463_410211384957454280_n.jp g?oh=1282468db3e32c5b3805e49049e27e7a&oe=58D54487

Mr Quatro

11-28-16, 03:32 PM

These Republican nominated electors would not only have to decide to change their vote but change it to Clinton and that's just not going to happen.

Yeah, my thoughts too. I mean, you can pay the fines and that, but would you really want to be remembered as the Republican nomination who voted for Clinton? :doh:

What if 38 or more EC voters resign:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/texas-elector-art-sisneros-to-resign-instead-of-voting-for-donald-trump/ar-AAkRIX1?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Texas Elector Art Sisneros to Resign Instead of Voting for Donald Trump

A Republican elector from Texas says he is resigning his position instead of casting his vote for Donald Trump, calling the Electoral College "corrupted from its original intent" and saying voting for the president-elect would "bring dishonor to God."

Art Sisneros was considering in August (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/art-sisneros-texas-electoral-college-resigns-231874) the possibility of becoming a so-called faithless elector, meaning he would refuse to vote for Trump if the GOP candidate won the Lone Star State and its 38 electoral votes in November.
In a Saturday blog post on his website, Sisneros said he had decided he was not comfortable defying his pledge to vote for his party's nominee, but neither could he cast his vote for Trump.

You know what's odd? Texas has 38 EC votes :o

Takeda Shingen

11-28-16, 03:35 PM

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/nov/18/blog-posting/no-3-million-undocumented-immigrants-did-not-vote-/

Still, I have to admire the irony in a President-Elect who first claimed the election was rigged, then claimed he won in a "very open and successful presidential election", who was upset when people protested it, then got upset when Jill Stein suggested and got support for a recount in one state, and then claims that the election was rigged again, but whilst still protesting against an audit of it. :doh:

The reason for the nonsense is that while Trump's exterior is of a 70 year-old man, underneath is a 10 year-old boy. Trump cannot handle loss like a well adjusted adult. Even a nominal loss like we see here is met with the most juvenile ranting. When it appeared that Trump's ship was sinking he was throwing a tantrum about fraud. When he won suddenly the election is fair. With it becoming clear that Clinton won the popular vote he now cries fraud again, despite the fact that said popular vote will not change the outcome of the election.

It's going to be four years of this. Four long years.

August

11-28-16, 03:43 PM

It's going to be four years of this. Four long years.

They'll be better than what they would have been under Clinton.

Takeda Shingen

11-28-16, 03:44 PM

They'll be better than what they would have been under Clinton.

I disagree.

Oberon

11-28-16, 04:12 PM

One would hope at some point someone would take his twitter away from him. :hmmm:

August

11-28-16, 04:19 PM

I disagree.

That's fine. I can take your disagreement far more easily than I could have taken a Clinton presidency.

Takeda Shingen

11-28-16, 04:29 PM

That's fine. I can take your disagreement far more easily than I could have taken a Clinton presidency.

Whether you can take my disagreement or not is irrelevant. Your approval of my politics is neither sought nor required.

Reece

11-28-16, 06:01 PM

They'll be better than what they would have been under Clinton.
+1 to that!!:up:

August

11-28-16, 08:03 PM

Whether you can take my disagreement or not is irrelevant. Your approval of my politics is neither sought nor required.

Nor was this display of pique sought but again better your hate than a Clinton presidency.

Because after all:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw398rNUAAIWxhC.jpg

Takeda Shingen

11-28-16, 09:16 PM

Nor was this display of pique sought but again better your hate than a Clinton presidency.

Because after all:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw398rNUAAIWxhC.jpg

Oh it was obvious that you were attempting to troll, however feeble the attempt was. You're simply not that clever. But I should re-emphasize that I am not particularly interested in nor concerned with your views or perceptions.

August

11-28-16, 10:03 PM

Oh it was obvious that you were attempting to troll, however feeble the attempt was. You're simply not that clever. But I should re-emphasize that I am not particularly interested in nor concerned with your views or perceptions.

Uh huh, well apparently you are concerned enough to make several posts about it. Guess you do care after all...

Takeda Shingen

11-28-16, 10:10 PM

Uh huh, well apparently you are concerned enough to make several posts about it. Guess you do care after all...

Let us examine what occurred, shall we?

You posted a retort to a comment not directed toward you. I stated that I disagreed with your premise. You then upped the ante and gave a specious 'approval' of my disagreement. I then informed you that I wasn't concerned with your approval. You replied with memes. Ah, to be 20 again.

Let me know if you have any further questions about my lack of interest. It is important that you understand what the ground rules of our non-relationship will be moving forward. Barring that, it would appear our line of discourse has reached its conclusion. I will mark our interaction as closed and wish you better luck in trying to get under my skin in the future.

August

11-28-16, 10:26 PM

Let us examine what occurred, shall we?

Oh yes lets do. :up:

You posted a retort to a comment not directed toward you. I stated that I disagreed with your premise. You then upped the ante and gave a specious 'approval' of my disagreement.No actually I said that i'd rather have your disagreement and later hate than a Clinton presidency. You wrongly interpreted that as a request for your approval which it most certainly was not. Clinton will never be president and you're disappointed regardless of how anyone feels.

Ah, to be 20 again.Yeah but 1980 is long gone, never to return. Kinda like Clinton.

Let me know if you have any further questions about my lack of interest. I have yet to ask you any questions nor do I intend to. You can usually tell a question by the ? symbol. Feel free to scroll back and look but you won't find any.

It is important that you understand what the ground rules of our non-relationship will be moving forward. Barring that, it would appear our line of discourse has reached its conclusion. I will mark our interaction as closed and wish you better luck in trying to get under my skin in the future.I understand that now that you have finished your strawman that you're trying to declare victory before running away. Well it wasn't my intention to get under your skin but I do think that is exactly what has happened. We'll see if you reply to this Mister You Don't Care.