Subsim Video: New Manual TDC Video in HD (2/13/10)

[RickC Sniper]

It is definately submarine gameplay from a different perspective than we've had before. It is obvious we may have to give up some of the things we've liked in the past in order to accomodate some other new things.

Some of us will like it and some of us won't. No surprise there.


Thanks for the video Neal. This is easily the most important one I've seen yet.

BTW: I thought you set the aob correctly when I first watched it. I guess we're both a couple of noobs.

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by jdkbph

Re the "TDC" - I'm sure it's not laziness... it's budget, schedule and priorities.

For instance, if you put 50% of your resources into the graphics (environment, facilities, people and ship modeling, and the 3D interiors), another 20% into sound (voice acting, effects and music) and another 20% into the 1st person interface... what's left for stuff like TDC dials?

Actually, I disagree. I think the devs made this submarine game the way they wanted to....from a Captain's perspective. Whether that was a good decision or not will depend on how it sells.

[karamazovnew]

I'm not sure how may have realized what's going on in the vid so let me explain:

The TDC Autoupdate button now does what it's supposed to do. You can select to input a specific bearing OR follow the periscope rotation. You no longer need to turn TDC Autoupdate OFF to input the speed, AOB and range. Even more, gone is the old problem of the SH4 Notepad, of sending all values at the same time. Gone is also the need to manually send data do the TDC.

Also, as you can see from the interface, incremental changes to the dials is now supported. The default interface is perfectly functional and the modded interfaces will have a LOT of flexibility.

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

Actually, I disagree. I think the devs made this submarine game the way they wanted to....from a Captain's perspective. Whether that was a good decision or not will depend on how it sells.

it can be a sub captain simulator or a submarine simulator but it cant be both and all the loud voices were asking for more personal interaction and eye candy so it was easy to choose the capt over the sub as to what the simulator would be based on.

then somewhere along the way it got oversimplified for the casual gamer market in an attempt to increase target market and hopefully sales as well.

[Sailor Steve]

It looks like something even I might be able to handle.

On the other hand I hope the 'Salvo' timing is adjustable. The wouldn't actually fire closer than five seconds apart, and from what I've read eight-to-ten seconds was more the norm.

Still and all, it looks good to me.

I also hope the crew members are moddable. I certainly don't want to see exactly the same faces in every career I play.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by TH0R

#1 The 2 point incremental speed setting. And how on Earth did you successfully hit the vessel with wrong AOB? I know it has been stated that the crew entered the right value, but still - it seems to me on the video that your values were taken... ??

Think about it, I was within 600 meters, so that's pretty close, and my "error" was not that significant. That's probably why only two hit.

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

I'm with you Neal. I'm Hands on. Whether taking a leak or playing a sim.

If I want to tick multiple choice boxes I have Silent Steel.

Yes I have to agree it's very pretty but, walking around thru the boat is going to get old fast.

I thought the whole idea of a WWII U-Boat Sim is to attack allied shipping the most realistic way possible.

I will buy the Collectors Edition to add to my Sub games.

But it will be a dust collector.

I'm a hard core " NICHE " group and proud of it.

Yeah, I hear you. I guess all I can say is keep an open mind.

Originally Posted by Gato76

Neil, how is the AI

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

It is definately submarine gameplay from a different perspective than we've had before. It is obvious we may have to give up some of the things we've liked in the past in order to accomodate some other new things.

Some of us will like it and some of us won't. No surprise there.


Thanks for the video Neal. This is easily the most important one I've seen yet.

BTW: I thought you set the aob correctly when I first watched it. I guess we're both a couple of noobs.

Haha, yeah, I really wasn't paying close attention.
I think you summed it up, this isn't SH3 2.0 Some of us won't like that much, we will have to see how the game sells. If it sells through the roof, I suppose this is the direction we are headed.

[TH0R]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Think about it, I was within 600 meters, so that's pretty close, and my "error" was not that significant. That's probably why only two hit.

Doh, of course some fish had to hit - you did set it on the port side.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by makman94

i don't know how software development works

Clearly you don't, when you state it's laziness on the Devs part. When some of you say those words, you lose all credibility you had, your opinions become irrelevant nonsense. You don't even know the guys (the Devs) and already state flaws of personality in the whole team? Because you don't have any particular person to blame, right? These kinds of opinions should get a stern moderation warning, or directly a ban, for insulting peole.

Oh, and, one thing I note everyone is getting all mixed up... It's not the TDC what is working wrong (not that we know of, anyways), it's the interface for the data calculations and input. The TDC is just the place where the officer (not us, Captains) inputs the data we're feeding them through the interface.

[makman94]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

I'm not sure how may have realized what's going on in the vid so let me explain:

The TDC Autoupdate button now does what it's supposed to do. You can select to input a specific bearing OR follow the periscope rotation. You no longer need to turn TDC Autoupdate OFF to input the speed, AOB and range. Even more, gone is the old problem of the SH4 Notepad, of sending all values at the same time. Gone is also the need to manually send data do the TDC.

Also, as you can see from the interface, incremental changes to the dials is now supported. The default interface is perfectly functional and the modded interfaces will have a LOT of flexibility.

good 'catch' Kara ! didn't notice that ! at last something good !

[makman94]

Originally Posted by martes86

Clearly you don't, when you state it's laziness on the Devs part. When some of you say those words, you lose all credibility you had, your opinions become irrelevant nonsense. You don't even know the guys (the Devs) and already state flaws of personality in the whole team? Because you don't have any particular person to blame, right? These kinds of opinions should get a stern moderation warning, or directly a ban, for insulting peole.

Oh, and, one thing I note everyone is getting all mixed up... It's not the TDC what is working wrong (not that we know of, anyways), it's the interface for the data calculations and input. The TDC is just the place where the officer (not us, Captains) inputs the data we're feeding them through the interface.

take it easy Martes....you are getting rude ! i am only expressing my opinion ,that has nothing to do with anyone PERSONALLY of the devs ! that is my thought ok ? and ,for me, i don't see that they worked hard for that tdc....
sorry , but this is what i see

ps: about the insults: i don't think that i insult anyone of the devs by saying that this job is 'fast' made but what is making sense to me is that you ,also, don't know me but this didn't 'block' you to insult me
bottom line is that i have to say my opinion only when i like something at sh series ?

[finchOU]

Dont think its been mentioned...but some of those captions are down right suck! The caption in the friggin Per. View for lock/break lock is just wrong and annoying (I dont think you should ever be able to "lock" a ship anyway)! granted on higher realism settings I would think this stuff would go away! The whole Periscope view is a mess for me. I understand the need to put extra stuff in there for "global SA" ...but my old school realism dreams tell me the that I should only belooking at what a Captain would see. Of course I completely agree that to target a broader group of costumers some..non realistic gamey ..and cooler moderner looking interfaces would need to be there to attract that crowd. i just hope its modable.

[Sag75]

I didn't read all posts.. anyway how it was possible hit the merchant with an AoB set at 127° port?? The merchant is clearly around 30° port!

okay.. probably it was a luckly hit..

[Onkel Neal]

Read all the posts or makman will call you lazy.

[Jerik]

Originally Posted by makman94

take it easy Martes....you are getting rude ! i am only expressing my opinion ,that has nothing to do with anyone PERSONALLY of the devs ! that is my thought ok ? and ,for me, i don't see that they worked hard for that tdc....
sorry , but this is what i see

ps: about the insults: i don't think that i insult anyone of the devs by saying that this job is 'fast' made but what is making sense to me is that you ,also, don't know me but this didn't 'block' you to insult me
bottom line is that i have to say my opinion only when i like something at sh series ?

I suspect Martes's concern is more that you're making broad assertions about their intent without understanding how the development process works. Software programming of any kind is not easy, and I speak from experience. Even very small tasks can take days or weeks to complete; features that seem simple or easy to build may actually have dozens of lines "under the hood", or be very complex in design.

In addition, your language is somewhat unclear: it is one thing to assert that you dislike the developer's choice for a UI; it is another entirely to assert that they were too "lazy" to produce one you approve of. It is entirely likely that programming that UI took just as long than one with a bunch of knobs.

In short: attack the message, not the messenger.

EDIT: Also, you need to sometimes consider that things may need to be unrealistic simply for gameplay purposes. A perfect example, from Splinter Cell: the main character has goggles with night and thermal vision; Tom Clancy was a bit miffed at this during development, but any other design choice would have been awkward (such as having to switch goggles, mid-level). Sacrifices sometimes must be made when you're controlling something using a keyboard and mouse (or controller!).

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Jerik

I suspect Martes's concern is more that you're making broad assertions about their intent without understanding how the development process works. Software programming of any kind is not easy, and I speak from experience. Even very small tasks can take days or weeks to complete; features that seem simple or easy to build may actually have dozens of lines "under the hood", or be very complex in design.

In addition, your language is somewhat unclear: it is one thing to assert that you dislike the developer's choice for a UI; it is another entirely to assert that they were too "lazy" to produce one you approve of. It is entirely likely that programming that UI took just as long than one with a bunch of knobs.

In short: attack the message, not the messenger.

EDIT: Also, you need to sometimes consider that things may need to be unrealistic simply for gameplay purposes. A perfect example, from Splinter Cell: the main character has goggles with night and thermal vision; Tom Clancy was a bit miffed at this during development, but any other design choice would have been awkward (such as having to switch goggles, mid-level). Sacrifices sometimes must be made when you're controlling something using a keyboard and mouse (or controller!).

hello Jerik,

i am not talking about the UI (this has to do with tastes and other will like it ,other not).but if it is modable,you can bet that it will be the first area to be modded.
i am talking about the fuctionality and the features it have (or not have). what i don't like is written at posts 48,101,102 of this thread

yes Martes, the input data and the way is this done, is important for the immersion but with this tdc (no gyro ? )(fuctionality) will be impossible to perform advance attacks with no 90degrees method.
and also where is the realism if i see only 'dancing' numbers with arrows left and right and have to do ten clics if the target's speed is 20 kts? (don't say 19) .sh3 is much faster than this.
and the wo must execute the given order by you (the captain)...if you say 3.2 kts he has to set 3.2kts


i can understand that the Software programming of any kind is not easy and also i understand these words of yours ''...features that seem simple or easy to build may actually have dozens of lines "under the hood", or be very complex in design...'' but they had allready a good working tdc so they had only to improve it and i am talking about the horizontal split of periscope !also,this is their job and everybody is trying to be as good as possible at his job...it is something that chosed to do ( i am not complaining at my job and i -and i guess you too-get criticized every day there)

but beside all these, when this english man(can't remember his name now) at 'top gear'(a tv show that testing cars) is testing a car is NOT interested AT ALL on how much efforts its devs put in to make it ! he will test the car ( and will never bother himself with the 'problems' that its devs had to solve or the ammount of research is 'hidden' in its engine).and if the car is fast and good will hit top scores ,if its not will hit the bottom at the top scores .and a faster car from one other company will be placed above on the top list no matter if the devs of the first mentioned car had put a lot of efforts making it (same goes with mods too...how many of you ever bothered yourselfs of the work that is behind of what you see ? the 'faster' will win... )

ps: i am asking sorry if anyone felt insulted by my words but it is time to start learning to discuss each other . this is not a place for talking with the devs of sh ....this is our place ....at least i think so

i have nothing else to say on these guys ,at the end i will be accused as 'flamer'