What does elenaiba say...

[mookiemookie]

[Takeda Shingen]

Yeah. Thread necromancy at its finest.

[skwasjer]

Ok to some this may be arselicking, but I don't care. Others know I am honest.

Dan, I like to congratulate you and the rest of the team on a job well done. I don't even have the game yet, but from what I've seen and the brief conversations a few months ago, I can conclude this is the best SH-game to date. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Definately!

You know I'm not too fond of the DRM system, and well heh, who is, but other than that SH5 will become a good game. Needs some extra care the coming year from Ubi and modders and all will be well.

Carry on!

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Dan doesn't know how to speak with people, he have communication problems

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

Thank you for your input, Dan. I have to say that I am one of the disappointed ones - but I still hold out hope that you can get some of the features and broken parts of the game into working order. I sincerely hope you're taking some of the legit criticism and addressing it within the time and resource constraints you're given. This game can be very very good, given some time and attention. It's just at this point, with the problems it currently has, I can't glean much entertainment from it. But again, I'm still keeping the faith that you can get it whipped into shape.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

There is no need to apologize. We all know how much time, hard work goes into these things as well as the constraints and restictions inherent in designing software.

I wanted to emphasize the positive and point out the major improvement in SH5:

1. a fully realized photo-realistic 3d interior of a type VII U-boat:






I don't think people realize how much research, time and effort went into this and how big an impact it will have on the game atmosphere;




2. substantial improvements to the periscope/UZO/attack map/TDC which makes it much more user friendly, flexible and realistic:






3. perhaps most important, a very much more mod friendly game structure;


most of the bugs, problems, issues raised by users are fairly minor and I have no doubt will be eventually addressed by your team or modders.

Again very hearty congratulations to you and your team for all the blood, sweat, tears and love you have put into this game.The future looks very bright for SH5.

John.

[COWBOY10]

I too would like to add my thanks to elanaiba for a honest answer. We all know it must be very hard and frustracting to work on a project like this and then listen to us all moan about it when it comes out. However we only moan because we too are passionant about subsims, Hell thats why we are here right, I would be more worried if people ignored it.

Yes I admit as already stated in another post, I was very very excited, but am now frustracted with SHV as it stands. However I think from what I have read MOST of us including myself, CAN see the protential and what we could end up with.

Its a good thing though, that even you have admitted you arent happy with the current SHV. I hope that means, that you and the other devs will still be working on this and steering it towards the SHV you guys want to see and providing us with some patches. As ive already stated, WE ( Well some off us but certanly not Firewall, as I cant speak for him ) do not want to see this sim fail, and Yes as simmers we are very demanding, or so my wife tells me
remember dont get too down, We only moan cause we care.



Hugh respect for having the balls to come on here and tell us how it is.

[jlederer]

Dan,

Thanks for getting sh5 out the door. Code is very stable for me - no crashes in about 10 jours of play time on my 2gb win7 pc with 320mb video and all eye candy on.

Glad to hear you giuys will be working on fixing the bugs and considering the suggestions for improvement posted here.

If you could provide more docs on mod tools esp. Scripting and related object model, when scripts are called in simulation loop, etc. that would help the community better understand what can be changed/augmented and thus what folks like me can stop asking you to fix :-)

I know that folks in the community will be able to create missions and mod graphics similar to what could be done in sh3 but what can be done that's new? Is it possible to add new crew dialog interactions to invoke orders or round-out storytelling for those who may want that?

Thanks again for reading the community's feedback and posting.

Jim

I'm not sure if my post upset someone but I just edited it to remove all instances of the word "we".

[Von Hinten]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

... I don't think people realize how much research, time and effort went into this and how big an impact it will have on the game atmosphere;

I do. We spend ages waiting for Dan to come out of that boat in Kiel last September.

It's good to see that most of that presumably 'lost' time turned out to be a pretty good investment after all.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

Quoted for emphasis. Working on/bulding a supermod for SH4 only increased my understanding and appreciation for the developers and what they go through. I may talk bluntly about some things, but i have *always* been on their side (the devs). I have no hesitation in saying that Dan is probably this communities best friend, both end user and modder alike. He has made himself approachable by modders and has even offered his hat into the ring a couple times in brainstorming.

So every time someone says something like this, all your doing is driving a wedge between modder and developer, and between modders themselves.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

Thanks Dan. This largely answers the question that I asked you in the other thread. Hopefully now those planning on persisting with comments like "Don't blame the devs, it's all the suits fault" will consider these words of yours beforehand.

Hopefully now those planning on persisting with comments like "Don't blame the devs, it's all the suits fault" will consider these words of yours beforehand.

+1

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

This pseudo "mea culpa" is welcomed.

WTF!!....I can't believe I've read that

Originally Posted by Ducimus

So every time someone says something like this, all your doing is driving a wedge between modder and developer, and between modders themselves.

Agreed (regarding the link) and for the record.....some of the Grey Wolves (myself included) have met Dan in person and consider him a trustworthy friend, a guy with a high level of self esteem, development skills and professional integrity.

I would thank everybody/anybody to cease using the example of The Grey Wolves versus SHV for comparison purposes to make any points in this debate.

The Grey Wolves have never considered themselves to be in any form of competition with Ubisoft....in fact we are on record as acknowledging the basic principle/fact that without the skills of the Ubisoft SH Development Team there would not have been a basis/foundation for The Grey Wolves to work on.

THE GREY WOLVES DO NOT WELCOME SUCH COMPARISONS

[utops]

Amen.

[Hanomag]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

WTF!!....I can't believe I've read that



Agreed (regarding the link) and for the record.....some of the Grey Wolves (myself included) have met Dan in person and consider him a trustworthy friend, a guy with a high level of self esteem, development skills and professional integrity.

I would thank everybody/anybody to cease using the example of The Grey Wolves versus SHV for comparison purposes to make any points in this debate.

The Grey Wolves have never considered themselves to be in any form of competition with Ubisoft....in fact we are on record as acknowledging the basic principle/fact that without the skills of the Ubisoft SH Development Team there would not have been a basis/foundation for The Grey Wolves to work on.

THE GREY WOLVES DO NOT WELCOME SUCH COMPARISONS

Well said...

And Dan if your ever back in NYC, I have much better places to eat and or drink!!

[fidget]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

Well, you tried your best and failed. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, thank you for not taking the easy road and perpetuating the "devs" vs "suits" myth to avoid any blame. It would have been easy to do...too many people, who have their own axes to grind and don't understand the game industry, postulate that as a way to bash a game while protecting their own political agendas...it's stupid. When undertaking any complex product like a game, a team is a team... trade-offs are made on both sides with eyes wide open. UBI produced this game...suits and devs. So, whatever it is...it's finally a UBI product...good, bad, or indifferent.

You've all but conceded that the quality of SH has been on a downhill slope after SH3...some might say, as steep downhill slope....that's just the way it is...you can't comment on that, but it's obvious. You are an honest man, constrained by loyalties that run deep.

What I think many people here see are those bugs in SH4 that made it into SH5...and it's hard to explain that. It really is. It's what I call a 'repeat writeup'.

But you know the situation and you know this isn't all directed at you..in fact, you may not be to blame at all. But as THE dev face of SH5, you have to understand how it feels to people who really care.

So, don't put it all in your shoulders...just understand that a passion for Subsims is driving this. Many of us feel that what we got was not good enough to justify the money. You probably can't do anything about it...or maybe you can. I don't know. This game was about 1/3 of the way through a normal dev process...that is obvious too. QA was substantially lacking...even more than SH4.

BTW, the modders don't get paid. No game should ever be released with the expectations that the 'modders will fix it'. That isn't right. The modders are there to lift a good game up...not make a bad effort marginally playable.