Gun Control thread (merged many)

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

They cannot understand certain things,

Mostly likely of course not. Different country, different cultural norms. But it doesn't help any of us to be antagonistic about it. (August.. just sayin' man) The best thing we can do is help them understand by laying out our case in a rational manner and not look like the stereotypes that are pushed by the anti-second amendment crowd.

[August]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

But it doesn't help any of us to be antagonistic about it. (August.. just sayin' man)

I was just joking with Oberon which I am sure he knows.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

I was just joking with Oberon which I am sure he knows.

Took me a moment, but I got there.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The best thing we can do is help them understand by laying out our case in a rational manner and not look like the stereotypes that are pushed by the anti-second amendment crowd.

Sadly Ducimus, neither foreigners nor the anti-second amendment crowd seem swayed by cold, hard facts. Let's look at our friends across the pond in Great Britain.

England basically "banned" the ownership of handguns in 1997. They made it excessively difficult to own one legally.

In 2001 - the BBC reported that in the following 2 years (all the data that was had at the time), the use of handguns during crimes INCREASED by 40%.

The largest increases - were in the areas where there were less legally owned guns. Those areas with the (still) highest legal gun ownership showed much less increase. In other words - criminals committed a lot more crimes where they knew that the victim was more likely to me unarmed...

Documented, cold, hard facts that gun control does not stop gun crime....
But that doesn't stop the anti-gun lobby.

Sources:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Dunblane.html
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

[soopaman2]

Why bother explaining?

Same as them trying to explain Why Kate Middleton is a duchess, and us not laughing halfway through the sentence. While we love guns, while they fear them. I am sure you mock the Kardashians,

Culture.

We agree to find each other silly.

We are, different, despite the age of the internet.

No hatred intended, just understand culture when you make your gun judgements.

[Tchocky]

I'm not from the US and therefore my brain hurts looking at numbers.

Guess I'll go back to communism and enforced homosexuality.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I'm not from the US and therefore my brain hurts looking at numbers.

Guess I'll go back to communism and enforced homosexuality.

Uhh, you are more american than ya think if you like those things..

[eddie]

Gun permits for Blind People!?! You got to be kidding me!!

What next, give them drivers license too! I'm not trying to pick on them because of their disability, just that this doesn't seem to have been thought through. I would not want to be around if someone who is blind starts shooting because they feel threatened!

http://news.msn.com/us/gun-permits-f...divide-in-iowa

[August]

Originally Posted by eddie

I'm not trying to pick on them because of their disability

Sounds to me like that's exactly what you're trying to do. You advocate denying people their constitutional rights solely because of a physical impairment. Pure discrimination.

Sadly Ducimus, neither foreigners nor the anti-second amendment crowd seem swayed by cold, hard facts. Let's look at our friends across the pond in Great Britain.

England basically "banned" the ownership of handguns in 1997. They made it excessively difficult to own one legally.

In 2001 - the BBC reported that in the following 2 years (all the data that was had at the time), the use of handguns during crimes INCREASED by 40%.

The largest increases - were in the areas where there were less legally owned guns. Those areas with the (still) highest legal gun ownership showed much less increase. In other words - criminals committed a lot more crimes where they knew that the victim was more likely to me unarmed...

Documented, cold, hard facts that gun control does not stop gun crime....
But that doesn't stop the anti-gun lobby.

Nothing like cold hard facts eh can you explain what the figures are for the following years?
Do they INCREASE or decrease?
If the CAPSLOCK delivers a fail then your point is invalid for what it is trying to claim.

Why bother explaining?

Same as them trying to explain Why Kate Middleton is a duchess, and us not laughing halfway through the sentence. While we love guns, while they fear them. I am sure you mock the Kardashians,

Culture.

We agree to find each other silly.

We are, different, despite the age of the internet.

No hatred intended, just understand culture when you make your gun judgements.

An explaination might be helpful.
But Soopa the reason you can't actually explain anything is because you don't understand your own or any other culture, you repeat the very same mistake in topic after topic.
You get very basic fundamentals completely wrong then build all your arguments on that flawed foundation.

@Razark No, because that isn't one of the firearms Ducimus said wasn't used by criminals.
Should be easy enough, after all it was a very big story with some big pictures of her robbing a bank with a gun that isn't used in crimes

[RickC Sniper]

Originally Posted by eddie

Gun permits for Blind People!?! You got to be kidding me!!

What next, give them drivers license too! I'm not trying to pick on them because of their disability, just that this doesn't seem to have been thought through. I would not want to be around if someone who is blind starts shooting because they feel threatened!

http://news.msn.com/us/gun-permits-f...divide-in-iowa

If I were blind and lived alone, I'd want to own a handgun.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Sadly Ducimus, neither foreigners nor the anti-second amendment crowd seem swayed by cold, hard facts. Let's look at our friends across the pond in Great Britain.

England basically "banned" the ownership of handguns in 1997. They made it excessively difficult to own one legally.

In 2001 - the BBC reported that in the following 2 years (all the data that was had at the time), the use of handguns during crimes INCREASED by 40%.

The largest increases - were in the areas where there were less legally owned guns. Those areas with the (still) highest legal gun ownership showed much less increase. In other words - criminals committed a lot more crimes where they knew that the victim was more likely to me unarmed...

Documented, cold, hard facts that gun control does not stop gun crime....
But that doesn't stop the anti-gun lobby.

Sources:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Dunblane.html
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

Well do bear in mind that unlike the States, the hand-gun isn't a national symbol, or deeply imbedded in our culture, so naturally there's not much of an emphasis on repealing a ban. Shotguns would probably cause an uproar because of their use in the countryside area and on grouse shooting and such, so they'll never be banned. But a hand-gun has no real history or meaning for us, so after a primary school full of young kids got shot up there was little objection to banning them, and although it's done sod all to gun crime figures, we have so far not had another Dunblane. Whether that's to do with better mental health care than the US or the handgun ban, I couldn't say, but you're probably more likely to be stabbed than shot here. Guns for show, knives for a pro as the saying goes.
But there's a big old thing in the US, at least from this perspective there is, about the gun, I mean you could say that the nation was pretty much founded on the gun, so it has a much bigger meaning than it does in the UK or much of Western Europe, or indeed much of the world for that matter.
It's a part of American social history, perhaps not so much on the coastal regions, but certainly in the central and central south.
So, yeah, it does confuse us Europeans a bit when this intense fear and terror of your own government radiates across the Atlantic, we might not trust our governments but we've found them so incompetent that there's little to fear from them, particularly when our armed forces have one tank per Corps, so there's not so much of that panic and fear, except perhaps in Germany. So, that confuses us, well, it confuses me anyway, and I find it a little sad that so many people seem to live their lives in fear of something that they have very little control over.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Well do bear in mind that unlike the States, the hand-gun isn't a national symbol, or deeply imbedded in our culture, so naturally there's not much of an emphasis on repealing a ban.

I wouldn't say any handgun is a national symbol on our part. We do however have at least a couple iconic handguns that the argument could be made are cultural items. The colt single action army (aka "Colt Peacemaker" your classic cowboy gun), and the Colt 1911 (used in some form in every major conflict of the 20th century ) immediately come to mind.

But there's a big old thing in the US, at least from this perspective there is, about the gun, I mean you could say that the nation was pretty much founded on the gun, so it has a much bigger meaning than it does in the UK or much of Western Europe, or indeed much of the world for that matter.
It's a part of American social history, perhaps not so much on the coastal regions, but certainly in the central and central south.

I agree with you, but as you say, not everyone here does. One thing to keep in mind is our country is nowhere near as old as yours, and it's commonly accepted beginning or birth is with the American Revolutionary War. We have plenty of iconic imagery of the common man, rifled musket in hand, off to defend his farm, family, and his freedom. I think because our nation is still a young nation comparatively, the iconic imagery invoked from this period is still deeply etched into our culture. Some places more then others.

So, yeah, it does confuse us Europeans a bit when this intense fear and terror of your own government radiates across the Atlantic

I also think (and this is just my opinion mind you) its because our national roots start with a revolutionary war against a government thought tyrannical; , that Americans, generally speaking, have to some degree, an intrinsic distrust have government.

[nikimcbee]

Guess I'll go back to communism and enforced homosexuality.

In 'merika, we call this "kali-fornia."

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I also think (and this is just my opinion mind you) its because our national roots start with a revolutionary war against a government thought tyrannical; , that Americans, generally speaking, have to some degree, an intrinsic distrust have government.

I understand this, I just find it strange that it hasn't really happened elsewhere to the same extent.

My own country fought a similar violent war fro independence. Less than a hundred years ago.