Light the blue touch paper and stand well back...

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

I'm surprised that it took this long for someone to post this topic.

Same here, hence the OP. I'm also surprised at the mild reception here so far.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Same here, hence the OP. I'm also surprised at the mild reception here so far.

All the Bible thumping Republicans around here are probably prepping their bullets, beer and burgers for the holiday weekend...



I on the other hand am working all three days... so in advance: you all suck...

oh who and I'm kidding if I had the days off I would just be spending it playing HOI2 and screwing around with 3ds max...

[Ducimus]

I'll bet if this thread title was something like, "Acclaimed physicist Stephen Hawking's says God did not create the universe", it would be two, to three pages full of rabid bit chomping already.

[Platapus]

The hypothesis that god created the universe can be true depending on the definition of god.

Considering how little we know about the universe, I would say that no one on Earth can have a clue as to what/who created the universe.

[Ducimus]

Hmm, did someone just do the kick off for the inevitable drama? (edit: well.. more like punt the ball)

Scuse me while i go get the popcorn ready.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Platapus

The hypothesis that god created the universe can be true depending on the definition of god.

Considering how little we know about the universe, I would say that no one on Earth can have a clue as to what/who created the universe.

And we haven't known even half of the universe not even a quarter of it and here a man telling us that nobody and nothing created everything. And because the universe so far has been ever expanding I don't think man will ever able to explore whole of it of it at any time. Unless we could devise a way to travel faster than the rate of the expanding universe. I wonder what would space be like at the fringes of 3D dimensional existence....

So nothing created the order which we are privileged to live in out of total nothingness that transformed nothingness into chaos and into order.

Sure I'm religious and I believe God created everything just that I do not know how He exactly created everything and I don't pretend to know. And sure I can't prove God created everything but I do know that what I'm seeing in this life is a grand design of things that puts an equilibrium and order enough to sustain living beings in it which become the flavor that gives meaning to time and becoming the heart and soul of this otherwise empty three dimensional dark space. Now this equilibrium that enables vulnerable living things to sustain themselves must not be a coincidence. What we are seeing is order and not chaos and because chaos can never become order we know chaos didn't create this universe and because nothing creates only nothing and because of everything is from everything else we know for certain that everything must have a beginning. And because it has a beginning it must have an end and when something has a beginning and an end it must have a purpose and when something has a purpose it must have originated from an intelligent design or plan.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Castout

And we haven't known even half of the universe not even a quarter of it and here a man telling us that nobody and nothing created everything. And because the universe so far has been ever expanding I don't think man will ever able to explore whole of it of it at any time. Unless we could devise a way to travel faster than the rate of the expanding universe. I wonder what would space be like at the fringes of 3D dimensional existence....

Not sure if its possible to reach the fringe of the universe. Our known universe is based on our ever expanding light horizon- the maximum distance light can travel to us since the start of the universe. If we sent a ship to the edge of that horizon we would find another light horizon of equal size and so on. I think its possible this continues on forever.

Another question to ponder is if you each the edge of matter in the universe (the "farthest star" if you will) does space just stop? Or does hard vacuum continue on forever?

[Sledgehammer427]

There are christians that like to say the big bang is entirely possible
it goes something like this


frankly, I applaud that Stephen Hawking is pushing aside the possibility he could go to hell for saying what he's saying. takes guts.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I'll bet if this thread title was something like, "Acclaimed physicist Stephen Hawking's says God did not create the universe", it would be two, to three pages full of rabid bit chomping already.

Possibly but a name like that would have been dull and too easy. As this famous legend from many a firework is actually quoted by Hawkings himself and in the article I thought it apt. Looks like all the cantakerous ones are on holiday for the weekend.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

There are christians that like to say the big bang is entirely possible
it goes something like this


frankly, I applaud that Stephen Hawking is pushing aside the possibility he could go to hell for saying what he's saying. takes guts.

That's no worse than the Norse creation myth.

[Oberon]

The Egyptian cult in Heliopolis has one of the best creation myths I think

But still, what is todays scientific fact may be tomorrows scientific fiction, the big thinkers don't always get it right, some of Einsteins theories are being questioned today IIRC. However, whether it was the work of a God, an alien being or scientific process no one will know for certain, it will be one of those unanswerable questions short of some divine intervention or human mental transcendence.
Personally, I think this universe was created by the collapse of the one before us, and so on and so forth back until the first universe...but the billion dollar question is, what started THAT universe.
We'll never know.

[MH]

Its funny thing to be send to hell by allmighty bening who created universe.
He must have quite ego problem.

[yubba]

Originally Posted by MH

Its funny thing to be send to hell by allmighty bening who created universe.
He must have quite ego problem.

you' ll have to take that up with him when you get there.

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by MH

Its funny thing to be send to hell by allmighty bening who created universe.
He must have quite ego problem.

Yeah. An estimated 10^24 stars and who knows how many planets in the universe, all governed by a petty tyrant which demands praise from, and exacts punishment on, the inhabitants of one planet in a backwater section of a typical galaxy. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by MH

Its funny thing to be send to hell by allmighty bening who created universe.
He must have quite ego problem.

If you live in someone's house you are obliged to live by the host house rules.
If the host didn't give a clue of his house rules then you cannot be expected to follow them and if you were punished by not following them because you didn't know what was expected then the host would not be acting fair.

But I think God has made it clear to everyone of His house rules.
It's even embedded in our conscience and empathy. And we even try to imitate His house rules in our judiciary system, not any of its specifics nor withstanding any of its shortcomings, us being mortal men but what it was meant to give.

Well if you do not like your conscience and what your empathy telling you then go ahead live somewhere else but wait even Hell and the world of the dead belong to God. I guess the only way to be free of God is to start creating your own house including your very own made body, physical and spiritual and some 'breathing space' with your own rules that implies creating something out of nothing if not altogether creating a different everything out of nothing. But I think it would be far too much thing for a man or even a race of man or all the race of man to accomplish. So meanwhile we just need to check our ego as a mere mortal person.


But all men who thought as you made the mistake of assuming too much about God without knowing anything of God personally and make it all worse by attributing man's fallible characteristics to a holy God or by expecting TOO MUCH of God this and that that he would blame God for everything that went wrong even if it was another man's fault since he had been falsely taught somehow that God is somehow responsible of literally everything and he swallowed this WHOLLY even without personal knowledge of God. It takes honesty to say I do not know instead of being emotional about something which one doesn't have knowledge about no matter how little. This applies to both, believers and unbelievers.

If the ground which will not obey any man no matter his stature, obeyed the Lord God or that sickness which all man's wits fail to defeat be healed by mere will of God then there must be a very very good reason and strong foundation why those things would obey an entity that many man mistakenly loath as an evil tyrannical person.

But I've also unfortunately accepted that even though God is universal He may not be for everyone not because God is not for everyone but because not everyone is for God through sadly their false beliefs of God and the worship of their own desires. Let's admit it, mankind are not rational being even in the 21st century. People make excuses when they want justifications of their lives or deeds, ideals or lack of it even when their deeds couldn't be justified whatsoever. Excuses feel good because it fools you into believing that you're good even by being evil. No evil person who walks this earth could possibly allow themselves to think and genuinely believe they are an evil person unless that man is on his way to his repentance.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by TarJak

That's no worse than the Norse creation myth.

Then the Christian creation myth. First there's just god, he blinks his eye and POOF there's the universe

At least Germanic Paganism does not have some bible "explaining" how exactly everything is created. Germanic Paganism at least acknowledges we do not know everything.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

frankly, I applaud that Stephen Hawking is pushing aside the possibility he could go to hell for saying what he's saying. takes guts.

Pah. If you don't believe in god/hell there's no need to be afraid of it. Personally I hate god/christ so there's no way I'm possibly going to end up in "heaven".

Ah well as the Frisian king Radbod once said, I rather spend eternity in hell with my friends than in heaven with my enemies.