The proposed health care bill thread (merged)

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Max2147

You can keep your private insurer. Nobody's forcing you to switch to the government plan.

Sure that sounds great but I wonder how is a private plan supposed to compete with an entity that does not have to make a profit?

In other words private health care will be driven out of buisness.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Sure that sounds great but I wonder how is a private plan supposed to compete with an entity that does not have to make a profit?

In other words private health care will be driven out of buisness.

In the end, yes. Why should my boss continue to pay for our own healthcare policy when he does not have to nor has to worry about it anymore? He does'nt and he won't.

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Sure that sounds great but I wonder how is a private plan supposed to compete with an entity that does not have to make a profit?

In other words private health care will be driven out of buisness.

If there are enough people like you who prefer their private health insurers, then they will stay around.

You can't say that the government insurer will be awful then in the next breath say that it will be so good that it will drive everybody else out of business.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Max2147

If there are enough people like you who prefer their private health insurers, then they will stay around.

You can't say that the government insurer will be awful then in the next breath say that it will be so good that it will drive everybody else out of business.

You have to understand, what is keeping large companies from not just turning over healthcare of each and every employee to the government? Nothing is. Companies can get rid of entire departments for employee benefits. Expenditures for all the paperwork, etc. are now off the books. The employees healthcare is now the governments headache.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Sure that sounds great but I wonder how is a private plan supposed to compete with an entity that does not have to make a profit?

In other words private health care will be driven out of buisness.

That is the best thing about it. Profits aren't placed above patient care. The object of a corporation is to maximize shareholder return. The only way this is done with a private health insurance company is to deny care, therefore placing the almighty dollar above someones right to live.

I say to hell with them. The best thing in the world would be if every single one of the evil and heartless bastards was run out of business.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

That is the best thing about it. Profits aren't placed above patient care. The object of a corporation is to maximize shareholder return. The only way this is done with a private health insurance company is to deny care, therefore placing the almighty dollar above someones right to live.

I say to hell with them. The best thing in the world would be if every single one of the evil and heartless bastards was run out of business.

This is nothing but Democrat talking point scare tactics at play. I have never been denied any kind of service, nor do I know anybody who has. The fact is, the private sector, including health care delivers a better quality product, without the beaurocratic mess that's inherent in anything run by a government agency or body. And through competition, costs usually are contained. Now if we could only control some of the top heavy governmental regulations and have some tort reform we could get somewhere.

All this program is going to do is milk the taxpaying base. And it will overburden a system that's already stretched more thin every year. You talk denial of service, I'm wondering how people including yourself will feel if health care will need to be rationed to contain and cap program cost overruns which are a guarantee.

Like I said, I want to opt out of paying for this mess. I won't use it. It's going to be big time expensive, and it's a certainty that quality of service will be crappy. Just like every other venture run by government. I will continue my private health care plan thank you very much. It will be millions like me that ensure private health care companies survive and are equipped to deliver a superior product to any government run option. You can have your crap health care mookie if that's what you want. But pay for it yourself. Your health is your responsibility..not mine.

On the same subject, here's a nice little read regarding why Obamacare will be a colossal failure:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-49458267.html

Here's a quote:

This is precisely what happened in Britain. The state provides most health care, via the National Health Service. Patients have almost no say over which physician, surgeon or hospital they can use, while professionals have to conform to government plans and targets.
After its birth in 1948, planners soon found that "free" health care multiplied demand. NHS founder Lord Beveridge predicted free health care would cut spending as health improved.
The opposite was true. Between 1949 and 1979, it tripled in real terms. The service now costs twice as much as it did 10 years ago, with productivity down 4.5 percent.
One way government tries to limit demand is to decree which new drugs can be prescribed. Many drugs, widely available in America and continental Europe, are denied to British patients.
State mismanagement has also created waiting lines for hospitals, on average causing 8.6 weeks of waiting. Once inside, budgetary cutbacks on cleaning and maintenance mean higher rates of an antibiotic-resistant variety of staph infection. This "superbug" has turned even routine surgery into a lottery of death.

No thanks mookie.

[Aramike]

This is nothing but Democrat talking point scare tactics at play.

I agree.

By the way, I am in favor of SOME form of nationalized health care - but not this form. Taxpayers and the average consumer already subsidizes BILLIONS in healthcare costs, so to pretend that we don't already have a form of a nationalized system is delusional. I believe that a cost-efficient, consumer-driven nationalized system is possible and should be pursued.

Obama's plan is flat-out stupid. Just watch - if you're 70+ years old you can forget that bypass surgery, not to mention any transplant. Large employers will opt to pay their fines and SAVE MONEY by going onto the government dole, while small ones will be hit with a substantial backdoor tax - which is precisely what our economy doesn't need right now.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-49458267.html

Here's a quote:



No thanks mookie.

The British plan doesn't work, so health care reform doesn't work? That's like saying "I had a lemon of a Chrysler, so all cars suck."

Ask anyone in the world if they'd trade their plan for our system. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any takers.

[TDK1044]

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

Give that man the kewpie doll! Bing bing bing we have a winner!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

My girlfriend works damn hard for a living and doesn't have healthcare.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

My girlfriend works damn hard for a living and doesn't have healthcare.

If the place of employment does not offer healthcare I suggest she finds a place of employment that does provide healthcare. I never worked at a business that did not shoulder some of the healthcare costs. I would never sign on to a company that does not provide a healthcare program in some form. Even my brothers business this is basically 5 employees offers healthcare as part of the their compensations. They can opt out if they want and they get more take home money. They can use that money for their own plan or can throw caution to the wind.

So she works hard for a living and I need to pay for her healthcare? Interesting. I work hard also, I pay taxes on my healthcare each year as it is part of my gross salary.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

My girlfriend works damn hard for a living and doesn't have healthcare.

Her healthcare is not my responsibility. It's hers. I'm assuming she's a grown adult. Your own healthcare is your own responsibility. I simply don't want to pay for your health needs. I've got my own healthcare to pay for, my own mortgage to pay, my own investments to make, my kids college funds to build, home repairs to take care, utility bills to pay , etc. etc. etc. Pay for yourself and your own life mookie. You types need to stop thinking other people should be working to fund you and take care of your needs.

The British plan doesn't work, so health care reform doesn't work? That's like saying "I had a lemon of a Chrysler, so all cars suck."

Ask anyone in the world if they'd trade their plan for our system. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any takers.

What Obama and other idealist Democrats want in healthcare is totally unworkable. That's the problem. They think they can make something that inherently doesn't work into something that will make it work. Of course they need to take money and liberty from other Americans to do it. Seriously, ask how many Americans are willing to give up our health care system for the government model. Only people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and choose to pass their bills onto other taxpayers will think "free" "public healthcare" is a great idea. Those of us who pay for ourselves, like our current healthcare plans, and who may be targeted as the funding source for this new government bloated option aren't enthusiastic about it. Ultimately, Obamacare will not yield good results. Just like darn near every other government beaurocracy, it will be hugely expensive for the taxpayer, won't provide quality service, will be swamped and overcrowded, and will be filled with waste and abuse. I don't care if you want and get this option. Just leave me out of it. Totally.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

My girlfriend works damn hard for a living and doesn't have healthcare.

How old is she? Is she in good health?

Its her right to not carry health care it is available if she wanted it.

Under the proposed plan you have no 'rights' you pay into the plan (if your working) regardless of age, health, nationality, etc.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

I agree TDK, but that has been the norm since the great depression was over ...

The difference between now and then is that our leader, the leader of the pack, wants to increase the number of people that qualify for health care by a very large number.

A few in here and I hope even more than a few out there can see where the government in health care system is going to lead us.

Name anything Uncle Sam could take over and ask, "Would it be for the better or for the worse?

Telephone, energy, trash pick up, discount department stores, food distribution, airlines, transportation by land, sea or rail, etc.

They can't prove that they have ever done anything right, besides win WWII

One misconception is that this will only cost one trillion dollars over the next ten years ...