All members read this

[MONOLITH]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You people should be ashamed how you treat others.

Really?

Go have dinner, I'll be back in 30 minutes with 1000 obnoxious Lehmann quotes.


*fires up the search function*

[MONOLITH]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

[... after the absolute LAMBASTING that SH4 players and prospective modders gave the SH4 devs following release.

Without the platform that they bring... all matters concerning modding for ANY theater in the Silent Hunter Series... are absolutely pointless.

Included in those quotes will be YOUR comments about SH4 devs. You should be careful what you accuse others of, when you cannot remember your own actions.

[AVGWarhawk]

[quote=bigboywooly][quote=John Channing][quote=Kpt. Lehmann][quote=Mikhayl][quote=RFB Team]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You asked for one reason why retaining limited access to such a tool should be viewed as acceptable.

I will answer your question with our primary reason:

EDITING


EDITING

ok, I think I have them all. Anyway, KL it is not Beery, that I can assure you.

RFB TEAM POSTING!

Just to be sure gents, Neal allowed this for Swdw. I do not recall the reasons for it but I guess it sounded good to Neal at the time. Faceless? Pretty much. But again, there was some underlying reason for it. Perhaps this would have been nice for the GWX team in their thread? Keeps from individual attack or singling out one person. Kind of late for that now. Maybe it should be abolished? Not sure, up to Neal. Anyway, useless post and not worthy of anyone reading it. Ignore it and deleted.

Just moderating is all!

[Penelope_Grey]

MONOLITH its people like you, exactly like you that cause me and others to Hulk out and try to smash you.

Not this time. Im staying as Dr Banner because Dr Banner can think Logically Hulk can't.

Maybe just maybe after the progress that has been made the staff will stop your insidiousness now while there is still chance.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Well ordinarily I'd go away and have a cigar and think about it. But since I don't smoke anymore, I will just have to make a snap decision....

A few people who have been largely ignored by most of us, telling all the participants in this thread how awful we are, on the whole I feel they are wrong to blast away.... For several reasons.

Firstly, Air needed clearing. No two ways about it, I used to be all for peace, but last year 2007 I came to a realisation, sometimes to get peace you must be prepared to fight. Anything worth having is worth fighting for. Now there is some crazy logic.

Secondly, I doubt some of the people who were shocked at the goings on here realised the sheer gravity of everything and how much things have been building. Better to expose the issues to the cold light of day than to just bury them and hope for the best.

Thirdly, out of destruction comes new life. From this, a new beginning will be reached and it will be good for me, subsim, members... the lot. There is no point in patching up a decayed house only for it to crumble again... you may as well blow it up and start a fresh... this thread has allowed that to happen.

So what do I think?
1) Tak's 5 point plan is a goer.
2) The anti-GWX ****e has to stop, and in return members of GWX go to the staff who are extra vigilant in keeping things nice.
3) I start smoking again tomorrow.

I believe that progress has been made in the thread here.

I was doing great up to number 3. Do not put that vile, nasty thing in your mouth. I'm envious that you quit. I'm chugging down a pack everyday.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I was doing great up to number 3. Do not put that vile, nasty thing in your mouth. I'm envious that you quit. I'm chugging down a pack everyday.

LOL My quitting is wafer thin right now. My nerves are shot to $h!t. And now MONOLITH has gone to drag up more GWX sins to display...Which will only keep things going.

You know we all know changes have to be made, and apart from RFB whoever that is, and from MONOLITH we were getting somewhere....

Mostly we say that Takeda's got the right ideas. I do at least. I won't speak for everybody, that is not right. But god, the truth is GWX is poked and prodded and yes we fight back... we shouldn't... but we did. We know the pokes and prods have to stop we know we have to back off... and let staff handle it.

FFS we see the way forward... the only roadblock left is MONOLITH who wants to keep his hunt against KL going.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

While I am thinking about it, I think it is absolutely laughable how a few claim that the SH4 forum is so very different and "more friendly" than the SH3 forums... after the absolute LAMBASTING that SH4 players and prospective modders gave the SH4 devs following release.

Without the platform that they bring... all matters concerning modding for ANY theater in the Silent Hunter Series... are absolutely pointless.

You people should be ashamed how you treat others.

Could you please point out a thread started by the SH4 MOD community that LAMBASTED the devs? I'm not speaking of the general SH4 forum. As you keep repeating, prove it or drop it. I wasn't here when the game was first released, so I'd appreciate being informed of the events that transpired in the past that we'd all like to get past.

And could you please define "you people"? I'd personally like to know if I'm being insulted and should be ashamed. Almost like GWX members would appreciate not being grouped and insulted.

[AVGWarhawk]

Monolith/Penelope, you are going in round and round with no end in sight. Neutral corners please.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Could you please point out a thread started by the SH4 MOD community that LAMBASTED the devs? I'm not speaking of the general SH4 forum. As you keep repeating, prove it or drop it. I wasn't here when the game was first released, so I'd appreciate being informed of the events that transpired in the past that we'd all like to get past.

And could you please define "you people"? I'd personally like to know if I'm being insulted and should be ashamed. Almost like GWX members would appreciate not being grouped and insulted.

DT, the devs were tared and feathered over SH4. However, KL is incorrect in the respect that a lot of folks ventured in and purchased the game only to beat them up. These folks ventured in from SH3. Naturally, new sub game. These folks as well as new comers cracked the nuts of the devs. Most went back to SH3. Some stuck it out and attempted to salvage what they could. It is darn nice game now with the patches and mods. To further that notion, the devs sent out discs and goodies to a select few that did stick with it, defended it and worked with them to clean it up. I can see why, the game was a mess out of the box. I was a happy recipient of that package myself. I received some darn nice things from them. So, I do not buy KL representation in this matter. EVERYONE IS SUSPECT IN THAT CLAIM OF LAMBASTING THE DEVS. End of story.

[Mush Martin]

The roadblock is no one is willing to make an open commitment to
forgive and forget

whats happening looks more like accept new state of things and
remember.


in reality Im no christian by any stretch and I am not really
mary poppins either.

but FFs if KL and I can bury a hatchett which wasnt on either
of our agendas when we got up this morning then why cant the rest of you.

Penny the roadblock seems to me that no one is willing to pay the
price of acceptance and forgiveness.

Pay it Forward, in a day or two new policy will come down
and the bad apples will be culled from the orchard.

as the saying goes give a man enough rope and he will hang himself
everytime.

all parties agreed on stronger enforcement I feel no more is needed
not amnesty resolution or even forgiveness as I spoke of it.
the situation will correct itself.

M

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Monolith/Penelope, you are going in round and round with no end in sight. Neutral corners please.

He is the one raking things up with the search function AVG and hurling things already done.

I'll do you one better than going to a neutral corner, I will step out of the ring and in the interest of point 2 on my cool post... I shall leave MONOLITH and any other mudslinger to you.

Fair?

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

........ Most went back to SH3. Some stuck it out and attempted to salvage what they could. It is darn nice game now with the patches and mods. To further that notion, the devs sent out discs and goodies to a select few that did stick with it, defended it and worked with them to clean it up. I was a happy recipient of that package myself. I received some darn nice things from them. So, I do not buy KL representation in this matter.

Thanks for the explanation. Thankfully, I wasn't around for most of that. I do remember some pretty nasty stabs in the regular forum. Just for the record, the "community" that I speak of whenever I speak of community are the select few who stuck it out and tried to make the best of it.

Now all I need to know is who the "you people" that KL referred to are.

Edit : I'm well aware of what the typical connotation of "you people" is and that's why I find it's use counter-intuitive to the stated goal of getting past all the conceived prejudice based on association

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

He is the one raking things up with the search function AVG and hurling things already done.

I'll do you one better than going to a neutral corner, I will step out of the ring and in the interest of point 2 on my cool post... I shall leave MONOLITH and any other mudslinger to you.

Fair?

Works for me.

[Mush Martin]

and now for something with less animosity and bloodshed

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...GIutmhDw&hl=en

[skwasjer]

Jeez...

My name gets mentioned quite a few times, while I prefer not to even be part of this catfight. Yes, I advocate a free open source community. Yes, I am disappointed some (senior) members don't want to do more on their part (tutorials, walkthroughs). Yes, I can say some members of the GWX team have provided me with useful information, and even a glimps at some of their tools. Yes, they are not selfish by standard, as a team and as a whole.

I also agree the tone of certain SH4 modders are out of line. You are not helping here.

But you know what? As a team you (GWX) also keep fueling this by denying people what tools and knowledge you have in store. So you have this, have that, a zone editor since one or two years, who knows what. I've seen some more tools as ref showed me some. Potentially great tools. I know my stuff. Look at my sig.

I understand the fact that it took a lot of you a long time to learn and discover about the game. But I can say the same. Isn't it a waste of time for people to do the same thing over and over?

All the arguments I've read to not release certain tools are a non-issue to me (like I said earlier). Usersupport? I hardly had to do any. Why? Because people around here are smart. Hell, S3D has NO MANUAL. None. And I may remind you the first 5-6 releases were very crappy ones.

Time constraints? Sure, very possible (I have them too). But there's more coders around here... Why not seek help? An open community, more souls, more talent, better tools, more ideas, etc.

Like I said above, and I hope even the anti-GWX people read this, all isn't so bad as some may think. Not from my experience (please people, read the S3D changelog and look for 'privateer' and 'ref'). I just wish you all to leave this all behind, stop the mud slinging, and work together and as much as possible in public, but not per se exclusively. Keep on helping others out (as you already have), and don't let people feel you have superiority in certain areas. That's where the unfair feeling comes from.

GWX has achieved much, and so they will for SH4 as well. Better bring them in as friends and get them to open up their bucket of tools and knowledge by themselfs then to force them to another forum and demand their tools, don't you think?

Here's my thought of the day...

"I am not pro Uboat, not pro Fleet, not pro SH4, not pro SH3, not pro GWX, but pro Silent Hunter - the game, and I wish everyone would feel the same..."

And it rhimes as well...

Respectfully yours,

[edit] Some edits, I don't want this to sound like an attack at GWX.
[edit2] My post may be a bit confusing as my talk is sometimes directed at some of the GWX crew, and sometimes at SH4 modders, and sometimes to all. Hope you can decipher it, I find it hard to explain in english...