[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[TheDarkWraith]

New version! v0.0.41

Intelligent Random AI (IRAI) for SH5 by TheDarkWraith
version 0.0.41

YOU HAVE TO BE PATCHED TO v1.2 OF THE GAME!!!

COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
The changes made to the .aix, .dat, .sim, .val, .zon, and .dsd files are the intellectual property of TheDarkWraith and may not be used, modified, or duplicated in whole, or in part, without the express written permission of TheDarkWraith. The changes made to these files may not be used in any commercial application of any form without the express written permission of TheDarkWraith.

This mod will bring new AI behavior to the aiplanes and ships in game. All airplanes have the ability to attack you now. If they have bombs and/or torpedoes then they will come and attack you if you are detected. Once they are out of bombs and/or torpedoes they will return to following their waypoints. Those airplanes that are armed with only a torpedo(es) will do a 'torpedo run' on you to fire their torpedo(es) (close to the water run). Ship's AI is 'smarter' now thanks to more states available and those states having sub-states bases on the crew's AI level (poor, novice, competent, veteran, or elite). The ship's AI has been greatly improved also. I went to great lengths to make anything that could be a random value random. This ensures that the AI's behavior doesn't look like it's scripted at all. Hunter-Killer groups are something to be weary of!!

To install this mod correctly do the following:
Navigate to where you unzipped the mod to and open it up. Select the 'MODS' folder and right click on it. Select copy. Navigate to your '\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\' folder and open it up. Right click in an empty area and select paste. Enable 'IRAI_0_0_41_ByTheDarkWraith' via JSGME (this assumes you setup JSGME to use the 'MODS' folder as default). If you are using Wamphyri's Plane Mod you can also use this mod with it. Install this mod after his plane mod.

NOTE: is this mod perfect? NO WAY. It will continue to evolve as I learn more about the files and the game itself. Does the mod contain any bugs or errors? I hope not but to say it doesn't would be foolish. I will address errors/bugs as users find them and post them in my AIs thread.

NOTE: this mod can be customized by editing the \data\Scripts\AI\init.AIX. I went to great lengths to make it user customizable and for testing different setups/configurations (testing)

There is an add-on mod for no hydrophone on surface. If wanted it has to be installed after the main IRAI mod.

This mod is fully compatible with my UIs mod. You have to install my UIs mod first then install IRAI and then the add-on mod for no hydrophone on surface if you want that. Say yes to all JSGME warnings.

Changelog:
v0.0.1 - first official beta release
v0.0.2 - added new states to crew states AI. Crew now has the following states: in port, in port alert, in port damage control, in port alert damage control, cruise, alert, damage control, alert damage control, abandon, and surrender (only for neutrals). Each state (except for abandon and surrender) has a sub-state based on the crew's AI level - poor, novice, competent, veteran, and elite
v0.0.3 - redid the ship's AI. Convoys are deadly now, it is advisable to run and hide when detected by escorts (or single warships for that matter)!
- adjusted values in the sim.cfg and sensors.cfg files
v0.0.4 - tweaked values in sim.cfg file (noise value was raised from 0.26 to 0.33 - so noise has a bigger effect on the escorts ability to 'hear' you)
- fixed bug of escort AI not assigned to ship commander's tactic unresponsive to convoy attacks
- tweaked bombs and DC values to be more effective (deadlier)
- escorts in convoy or lone warships will now attack any target they discover that's an enemy (including airplanes)
- fixed bug of ship commander's current tactic not able to continue. I was not cancelling the tactic if it wasn't able to continue - now it's cancelled when it needs to be cancelled
- current ship commander's tactic is also cancelled when AI no longer detects you and they have 'lost' you
v0.0.5 - adjusted AI visual sensitivity value in sim.cfg
- adjusted AI Radar sensitivity value in sim.cfg
v0.0.6 - fixed bug of CTDs on some ships
- added some new tactics and roles to the ships
v0.0.7 - fixed bug of crew state staying in alert once the ship detects it's first contact
- changed the implementation of some roles
v0.0.8 - added tactics for Hunter-Killer groups
- convoys that have a contact detected less than CONVOY_CONTACT_TAKE_ACTION_DISTANCE will respond to the threat otherwise will ignore it
- added tactics for unknown contacts
- total rewrite of the AI files. I wasn't satisfied with the way the ship's AI was behaving - it appeared scripted. So in the rewrite I made use of the Random function that's available - result is AI doesn't appear scripted anymore! The ship's AI is more random in it's behavior now - borderline unpredictable even
- ship's are only allowed to DC for MAX_CONTACT_LOST_DC_TIME after losing a contact
- changed 'Lost contact time' from 23 to 20 in \data\Cfg\Sim.cfg
v0.0.9 - in Bombs.sim all the entries depth precision were cut in half from 5 to 2.5 (they are more precise now)
- in DC_barrels.sim the DCs depth precision were cut in half from 5 to 2.5 (they are more precise now)
- adjusted values in sim.cfg
- adjusted DC parameters for DCs used in KGun, YGun, DC racks, and air depth charge
v0.0.10 - adjusted airstrike parameters to decrease the number of airstrikes happening (trying to get a balanced value here)
v0.0.11 - fixed timing bugs in Operation Plaster, Operation Plaster Two, Operation HK Plaster, and Operation Plaster Director
- fixed bug of current tactic continually being reset by roles
- partial rewrite of ship tactics .aix file
- adjusted sim.cfg [Sonar] Speed factor to 23 from 28
- added a random delay to the ship's ability to respond to torpedo sighted based on crew ability
v0.0.12 - adjusted AI's visual values in sim.cfg
- made the AI ship speed dependent upon damage incurred
v0.0.13 - adjusted Hydrophone and Sonar values in sim.cfg (made enemy AI better at hydrophone and sonar but also made thermal layer more effective)
- adjusted sub's AI crew visual and hydrophone in sensors.cfg to make them better at those sensors
v0.0.14 - adjusted sub's AI crew visual, hydrophone, radar warning, and DF in sensors.cfg (trying to find good balance)
- adjusted hydrophone and sonar values in sim.cfg (made thermal layer little less effective and waves a little less effective)
- adjusted impulse, range, minEF, maxEF, minradius, and maxradius for all DCs and bombs (made them more effective - sub will rock more if DC explodes near and much more damage if DC explodes close to sub)
- fixed error of incorrect file location of guns_radars_01.zon (was causing all sorts of problems including not letting the event camera work correctly)
- made DC runs more precise (enemy's DC run will be located much closer to your sub if not directly over it)
- fixed bug of ship's instant speed decrease with damage. Ships can now only change speed up to max of 10% of current throttle setting with damage
v0.0.15 - re-wrote the sub AI. It still needs more work done to it but as it now it's WAY better than stock. I guarantee you'll be amazed by it. Currently the sub AI cannot fire cannons and I'm trying to figure out why (they can and will fire torpedoes!)
- included the add-on mod 'Wolpack_mission' by Magnum. It's a single mission that puts you in a wolfpack. It's a great mission to show off the new sub AI.
- adjusted sim.cfg values for sonar and hydrophone to make AI a little easier to evade
v0.0.15.1 - fixed bug of when AI sub destroyed they sat motionless on surface. Now they will sink into the abyss if their damage >= 1.0
v0.0.16 - adjusted sonar cones of ship AI to be 120 degree arc
- adjusted elevations of all sonars to give them a little bit more down elevation
- adjusted ship AI hydrophone to full 360 degree sweep. From 90-135 the sensitivity is 0.85, from 135-157 the sensitivity is 0.7, from 157-169 the sensitivity is 0.55, from 169-191 the sensitivity is 0.3 (to account for propeller noise and engine noise), from 191-203 the sensitivity is 0.55, from 203-225 the sensitivity is 0.7, and from 225 to 270 the sensitivity is 0.85, and from 270-90 the sensitivity is defined by the sim.cfg file (currently 1.0)
- adjust sub crew AI's sweep time from 30 to 5 and sweep arc from 16 to 20 to give faster updates on hydrophone contacts
- adjusted sub crew AI's RPM detection level from 0.25 to 0.075 (crew will be able to detect slow moving contacts now)
- adjusted planes max visual range from 20,000m to 50,000m
- adjusted all depth charges to be slightly less lethal. Their depth precision is now 3.5.
- adjusted the ability of ships to damage themselves from depth charges by changing the minimum depth they are allowed to release DCs
- adjusted AI hydrophone and sonar to be just a little less precise
- adjusted error angle for AI cannons from 4 to 5 degrees
- adjusted Detection time for hydrophone and sonar from 1 second to 3 seconds
v0.0.17 - added the ability to set difficulty level by adjusting values in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix. There are difficulty level settings for merchants and non-merchants
- fixed bug of merchants being ordered to investigate enemy contacts when they are part of a convoy or a single unit
- added some new tactics to merchants. These new tactics will cause the merchants to use speed and course changes when they have detected you. Say bye bye to high mission tonnage numbers! It will be very difficult to torpedo a merchant that has detected you.
v0.0.18 - changed behavior of the HK group's commander. It now follows the pack when they head off to investigate or attack a contact.
v0.0.19 - fixed bug of hydrophone needle sweeping too fast
- wrote more tactics for ship AI, partial rewrite of ship AI also, redid sub AI
- gave convoys with merchants the ability to slow down and change direction when they have a contact sighted
- HK groups have been improved in their tactics
v0.0.20 - changed behavior of merchant convoy. Now the convoy leader will look to see where the contact is in relation to it's current heading and turn away from it some random value (this fixes the bug of the merchant convoy sometimes turning towards the contact)
- HK groups now assign a convoy leader
- changed HK group tactics
- removed director from non-HK groups
- added director to HK groups
- fixed bug of carriers and battleships swarming over the contact. They now continue following waypoints
- fixed bug of leader not being correctly chosen on some tactics if they had escorts and battleships available. Now the game will look to see which one is the commander and assign it as the leader
- fixed bug of single merchants being able to turn into the contact. Now they will turn away from the contact some random amount added to their current heading
- gave airplanes in early war years at least one bomb if they had the capability to carry a bomb. Those that had the capability to carry a torpedo have a torpedo now also in the early war years
v0.0.21 - fixed many logic error bugs found in last version and version before
- fixed bug of ability to fire cannons tied to ability to DC
- gave merchants who are leaders of convoys tactics
- fixed bug of HK convoy leaders unable to 'lead' convoy
- added ship tactics for air contacts
- added add-on mod for no hydrophone on surface
v0.0.22 - more bug fixing in ship's tactics
- fixed bug of escorts coming to all stop when they are assigned the role of guard convoy and they have a contact spotted
- fixed bug of merchant leading convoy with contact detected and loses contact it immediately starts following waypoints. Now it waits some period of time before switching back to following waypoints (in that period of time it will continue to evade by changing speed and course)
- gave the leader of a convoy that is not a merchant a specified time that it is allowed to use evade tactics (course and speed changes) when it has 'lost' it's contact
- found a solution to the 'kill the convoy leader bug' present in the game
- updated single ship tactics
- adjusted depth that ships are allowed to use DC racks from -12.0 to -10.5
v0.0.23 - adjusted the maximum number of escorts allowed to be assigned to Guard Convoy to 1
- added a new role to the tactics - Protect Convoy. Protect Convoy is different from Guard convoy in that the escort is allowed to break convoy formation and pursue a contact if it is less than an assigned distance. If greater than this assigned distance then the escort will rejoin the convoy ranks and follow the convoy leader
- adjusted visual, radar, hydrophone, and sonar detection times to 1.5
- adjusted radar, hydrophone, and sonar min signal strength to 0.125
- adjusted hydrophone and sonar thermal layer singal atten to 1.4
- adjusted hydrophone noise factor to 0.30
v0.0.24 - fixed bug of non-air unknown contacts not being able to be DC'd
- fixed bug of ship's having instant speed decrease when switching to abandon ship state
- allowed escorts to use full throttle longer while chasing down contact
- adjusted max time allowed to DC after contact lost to 3.0 minutes
v0.0.25 - fixed bug of commander not setting tactic for non-air unknown contacts if contact is 'lost'
- minimum contact depth to be able to fire DC racks adjusted to -8.5m
- minimum escort speed to fire DC racks adjusted to 3.0 knots
- escort's hedge hogs and DC Throwers can be used on a sub contact at any depth now
- HK Director distance from contact adjusted to 750m
- DC run speed adjusted to 0.8 of max escort speed
- rewrote tactics for single units
v0.0.26 - removed distance restriction for determining action/no-action of tactics (HK groups and non-HK groups)
- The commander's damage is checked and if it exceeds a preset value the current tactic is exited (this allows all units to act as independent units)
- HK groups now get a maximum of 2 escorts assigned the role of guard convoy
- non-HK groups now get a maximum of 4 escorts assigned the role of guard convoy
- In Operation HK Plaster the convoy leader now follows/circles the contact at a defined distance instead of running away
- revised surfaced contact spotted tactics
- revised non-air unknown contact spotted tactics
- fixed bug of convoys sometimes coming to all stop after losing a contact
- tweaked the sim.cfg file settings for hydrophone, sonar, visual, and radar
- fixed bugs found during reviewing all the tactics (typos)
v0.0.27 - adjusted \data\cfg\Sensors.cfg
- adjusted \data\Library\sensorvisualsub.sim
- revised the UBoot_Sensors.sim file
v0.0.28 - added watch crews and fatigue to the ship AI
v0.0.29 - rewrote ship unknown tactics
- changed ship tactics for subs. The ship AI used to differentiate between a sub contact as surfaced (investigate) or submerged (plaster aka DC). They now just treat a sub contact as a sub contact (plaster aka DC)
v0.0.30 - fixed problems found with warship's fatigue model
- added better randomness to the ship's sensors
- made noise a larger factor in ship AI. Adjusted some other entries in sim.cfg to make it a little easier to evade escorts/warships
- appears I have finally fixed the 'kill the leader bug' once and for all! Even if the leader kill himself by running into another ship or something someone else takes over!!
v0.0.31 - changed visual sensor for player from 0.5 to 0.3
v0.0.32 - never released
v0.0.33 - rewrote sub AI (subs are not so 'fragile' anymore and they are very good at finding and destroying contacts) - still haven't been able to get them to fire guns
- rewrote ship AI (ship AI no longer has pinpoint accuracy of submerged contacts)
- difficulty settings are now in range 0.0-1.0 vice 0-100
v0.0.34 - reduced memory requirements by removing entries from init.aix file (a copy of this file is given to every unit in game!)
- reduced memory requirements and cpu usage by optimizing code
- have the starshells working for the ship AI. The current implementation by the devs is flawed. There will be limited starshell activity in this version. I'll fix the implementation in next version
- ship AI will now shoot at submerged contacts (this is NOT using Rongel's method either!)
- fixed some bugs found in some of the operations (mainly dealing with operation plaster)
- speed restrictions based on crew ability removed. Now just a calculated speed restriction based on damage to the ship is used (no more outrunning the escort - only if it's badly damaged will you be able to do this)
- some roles and ops removed due to changes from v33
- fixed incorrect sim.cfg file contained in mod (wrong one in v33)
- docked ships will be more 'alive' when they are in alert status
- docked ships now have hydro capability
- changed hedgehogs fall speed from 7.3 to 4.5
- changed hedgehogs weapon range from 172 to 500
- changed hedgehogs weapon diameter from 61 to 45
v0.0.35 - made changes to sim.cfg to make it a little easier for AI to detect you
- enemy is allowed to search for contact longer
- operation plaster now has ability to ram contact if close enough to the surface
- HK leader now has ability to ram contact if close enough to the surface
- corrected bug where if leader was unable to follow waypoints it could possibly come to all stop (and the rest of the ships in group come to all stop also)
- more optimizations done
- changed how AI subs can fire guns at submerged contacts. If they spot you visually or they spot you on sonar (not hydro!) and you are <= 20m depth and within 8000m they will open fire
- rewrote sub AI so they don't get slaughtered by ship gunfire (they minimize exposure to it)
- corrected bug where if single unit was unable to follow waypoints it could come to all stop
- changed hedgehogs fall speed to 6.5
- changed hedgehogs launcher to max range of 200, diameter to 70
- fixed bug of when torpedo detected a unit could come to all stop vice trying to avoid torpedo
- Airplanes now hang around if they have cannons available and will not resume waypoints until your sub has submerged or it runs out of ammo. Also if a plane has no bombs and no torpedoes but it has cannons then it will come and investigate you (in previous versions it would just keep following waypoints)
- Airplanes (excluding torpedo bombers) now change altitudes as they are coming to investigate you, drop bombs on you, or shell you to death. This is something I've been trying to do for many months!
- When an airplane initially spots a contact it will drop down close to the water surface for it's initial run. If it's a torpedo bomber then it will stay close to the water until it delivers it's torpedo. If it's a bomber or a plane that has no bombs or torpedoes then it will pop up and make it's 'bomb run' at 3000m from the contact. This makes for a very nasty surprise because you have little to no warning that an airplane is tracking you!
v0.0.36 - fixed bugs found in code that could stop units from searching for a contact (found these bugs while testing in scapa flow)
- HK director now has ability to ram contact if it's surfaced
- fixed bug of leader sometimes not cancelling tactic and roles setup for ships in group
v0.0.37 - removed ability of HK leader to ram contact if near surface
- game is unreliable in reporting depth of contact. It varies from ship to ship, class to class, thus I have changed the depth the mod considers a contact submerged to -4m
- changed enemy visual fog factor from 0.9 to 0.875 as per Sober's recommendation
v0.0.38 - never released
v0.0.39 - added new tactics to airplanes. Airplanes now can change heading and altitude while attacking. Airplanes will also call off the fight if they incur too much damage. If damage is too great to an airplane they will kamikaze.
v0.0.40 - removed the ability of ships to fire starshells due to severe game bug that causes them not to fire guns that have fired starshells
v0.0.41 - removed kamikaze tactics for airplanes added by v0.0.39 and revised some of the airplane tactics. Added support for Generic Patcher's Air-To-Air combat patch so aircraft can target and engage other aircraft. Changed how subs handle unknown contacts. Changed damage amount to subs before they are forced to follow waypoints.

TheDarkWraith


v0.0.41 available here: https://www.mediafire.com/?0sg49j5mlwi49gi

NOTE: because of the new features of fatigue and crew watch rotations for the ship AI it is recommended to leave all the difficulty levels at 1.0
NOTE2: DO NOT USE RONGEL'S SHOOT AT PERISCOPE MOD WITH THIS MOD! ENEMIES WILL SHOOT AT SUBMERGED CONTACTS WITH THIS MOD!


If you are using my Ship's Inertia mod then you'll want to update IRAI with this: http://www.mediafire.com/?r6mxk65jaxmb9fu
This will allow the maximum speed of the unit to be dictated by damage incurred. Enabling this without my Ship's interia mod installed will cause the ship's to instantly slow down when they are damaged.


NOTE: to see the new sub AI in action (in a wolfpack nonetheless) start the included single mission 'Wolfpacks!'. When the mission starts go to ahead flank (you are already heading in the direction as the wolfpack). When the wolf pack detects the 'contact' they will turn to the SW. Follow them. Once you are within ~9000m of the 'contact' go to allstop. Go to external cam and go to the lead sub and follow it. Sit back and enjoy the show :D:rock:


video of airplane making torpedo run on sub:
http://www.filefront.com/17645967/AI-Torpedo-Bombers.avi/

[TheDarkWraith]

Current bugs/CTDs/errors/etc:

- sub AI doesn't fire cannons (looking for solution)
- sub AI can't lower periscope after it has been raised (looking for solution)
- sub AI sometimes fires rear torpedo at friendlies (looking for solution)
- airplane AI will sometimes continually buzz an area and not fire (game problem)

[Zedi]

..
I'm working on the subs and ships AI currently.
...

Now this is good news. :up:

[tonschk]

:DL good :yeah:


,

[THE_MASK]

Good news you say , i say its like bloody christmas . I have been waiting for this mod since day one . Woo Hoo .

[Echolot]

You give me hope. Thank you, TDW.:up:

[thfeu58]

Thank you, this is in the thing, finally, a progress. Even I had tried to find before some time an improvement. However, I had no success and it remained with the attempt. Nice that you have this! :salute:

Greeting
thfeu58

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.2 released. See post #1 for details.

Feedback on how the ship's AI behaves now will be greatly appreciated! The AI crew state has changed for in port and at sea, damaged and not damaged, in alert state and not in alert state.

[coronas]

Thanks! A very needed mod. :yeah:
:salute:

[Temujin]

Thanks TheDarkWraith,

I like your mods, they are great.

BTW, when submerged down to about 25 meters below the surface, the silhouette of the submarine is still visible from above (external view).

Does aeroplanes can detect that silhouette and attack at this situation?


Thank,

Temujin

[Capt Jack Harkness]

This mod seems to lag the game down every couple minutes when in the presence of more than one AI ship/plane...

[TheDarkWraith]

This mod seems to lag the game down every couple minutes when in the presence of more than one AI ship/plane...

I'm curious as to how this mod can be causing a slowdown. All it does currently is add new AI crew states for the ships and changes how the airplanes respond when they detect a target. I can honestly say I've never experienced a slowdown with it (tested it with the stock single missions in the game) :hmmm: By chance have you tried it without other mods installed? There might be a mod you have enabled that is causing the slowdown :06:

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks TheDarkWraith,

I like your mods, they are great.

BTW, when submerged down to about 25 meters below the surface, the silhouette of the submarine is still visible from above (external view).

Does aeroplanes can detect that silhouette and attack at this situation?


Thank,

Temujin

I've been at periscope depth (scope up) and had airplanes attack me. Haven't been any deeper than that though. Maybe someone else has and can report back on it. Actually I'll load up a test mission I made and place myself at 25m and see what happens. I'll edit this post with results.

EDIT:

was at 25m depth and airplane did not detect me. Sometimes with periscope up I wasn't detected at periscope depth either. Haven't tried 'late' war planes with radar though. All my testing has been done with 'early' war planes.

[Stormfly]

I've been at periscope depth (scope up) and had airplanes attack me. Haven't been any deeper than that though. Maybe someone else has and can report back on it. Actually I'll load up a test mission I made and place myself at 25m and see what happens. I'll edit this post with results.

EDIT:

was at 25m depth and airplane did not detect me. Sometimes with periscope up I wasn't detected at periscope depth either. Haven't tried 'late' war planes with radar though. All my testing has been done with 'early' war planes.

wow, random ai skills :yeah:

...what about the silouette @25meters and sea state ?

[Capt Jack Harkness]

I'm curious as to how this mod can be causing a slowdown. All it does currently is add new AI crew states for the ships and changes how the airplanes respond when they detect a target. I can honestly say I've never experienced a slowdown with it (tested it with the stock single missions in the game) :hmmm: By chance have you tried it without other mods installed? There might be a mod you have enabled that is causing the slowdown :06:

Hmm, well I had my usual setup (which runs smooth as butter), then I added your mod and the shadow improvement mod, shadow mod seemed to make things not happy so I turned that off, then I was running my usual setup plus your mod. The game ran fine except every so often it would drop down to a couple fps for a couple seconds then go back to normal...

This was also in the Dover Strait in late '39, so there was a decent handful of escorts in the area.

I'm with you, though, it really shouldn't be adding much to my comp's workload, but I dunno what else it could be... :06:

[THE_MASK]

This is just a general question . How does the campaigns get harder depending on what you sink etc . Does the future campaigns get busier with more enemy traffic or does the enemy AI become better ?It could just change the time you have to complete missions , I really have no idea .

[Sepp von Ch.]

It´s looking very good TheDarkWraith.

People like you make for us - SH5 community so giant favour... Thank you!:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

been working hard on the ship's AI....they no longer 'follow' you like a lost puppy dog. If they detected you and then lost that detection they enter into a spiral search pattern for 1 hr looking for you. If they don't acquire you in that hour then they return to following waypoints.
Convoys are MUCH harder now. Depending on the number of escorts they will send one or two 'scouts' to come investigate if they detect you on the surface. If you submerge then (based on the number of escorts) they send a DC party over to DC the crap out of you. Also (depending on the number of escrorts) this DC party has a 'director' that sits about 1500m away from you 'directing' the DC party to your location for their DC attacks. When they DC you it's bad - they come right over you like they did in SH3 :rock:

[Zedi]

Had no time to play these days, but I will give it a try today.. so I just wanna ask, the link from first post is and will b always the latest version?

[TheDarkWraith]

Had no time to play these days, but I will give it a try today.. so I just wanna ask, the link from first post is and will b always the latest version?

yes. Latest version doesn't have the changes I just mentioned about the DC party. I'll be releasing v0.0.3 here soon. Still doing some final testing. There's a lot to be tweaked and adjusted so this is going to be a WIP for some time and I foresee many revisions on this mod :yep:

Forgot to mention that a convoy WILL NOT dispatch all of it's escorts at you anymore. It will always keep at least 1 escort with the convoy unless there's only one escort with the convoy.

[SteelViking]

been working hard on the ship's AI....they no longer 'follow' you like a lost puppy dog. If they detected you and then lost that detection they enter into a spiral search pattern for 1 hr looking for you. If they don't acquire you in that hour then they return to following waypoints.
Convoys are MUCH harder now. Depending on the number of escorts they will send one or two 'scouts' to come investigate if they detect you on the surface. If you submerge then (based on the number of escorts) they send a DC party over to DC the crap out of you. Also (depending on the number of escrorts) this DC party has a 'director' that sits about 1500m away from you 'directing' the DC party to your location for their DC attacks. When they DC you it's bad - they come right over you like they did in SH3 :rock:

Holy crap TDW that sounds great. I wish I could actually play the game anymore(every time I try to play, I realize something wrong, and then I have to go try and fix it). This is an incredibly important project, so keep up the good work.:up:

[reaper7]

Sounds great. May even take some time out to test drive. :up:
It'll be my second time to Play ;).

[Zedi]

..
This is an incredibly important project, so keep up the good work.:up:

Totally agree. So TDW, take ur time and pls don't rush it. Blizzard's "Soon" should apply here :P

[TheDarkWraith]

You guys should see what happens when this DC party comes over and 'plays' with you now......it'll be vitally important to get out of dodge quick when you're spotted by escorts now :D It's just a constant barrage of DCs...wow :up:

[Redtail]

Don't forget the starshells as part of the WIP DW:DL Thats if you have any time left:-?

[reaper7]

You guys should see what happens when this DC party comes over and 'plays' with you now......it'll be vitally important to get out of dodge quick when you're spotted by escorts now :D It's just a constant barrage of DCs...wow :up:


Sounds realistic. Are termal layers factored in. Like the fact that one guy acts as director. :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

Sounds realistic. Are termal layers factored in. Like the fact that one guy acts as director. :up:

it does assignments as follows:

if there's only 1 escort in the convoy then he is assigned to DC you
if there's more than 1 escort in the convoy then (in this order):
- 1 is assigned to guard the convoy
- 4 are assigned to DC you (if there's enough escorts)
- then if there still are any escorts left, 1 is assigned to be director

[reaper7]

it does assignments as follows:

if there's only 1 escort in the convoy then he is assigned to DC you
if there's more than 1 escort in the convoy then (in this order):
- 1 is assigned to guard the convoy
- 4 are assigned to DC you (if there's enough escorts)
- then if there still are any escorts left, 1 is assigned to be director

:yeah: I take it that if there is a director (More than 4 escorts) The assigned DC's are more accurate than without.
That should be fun to esape from. :o

Any luck with getting some of the AI strategies (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&&sa=X&ei=1es0TK-VIo7w0wT99vGKDA&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=strategies&spell=1) like pineapple etc working.

[TheDarkWraith]

The director is a little misleading in it's name. His purpose is to sit ~1500m away from you in the shadows so that he always has 'contact' with you so the other ships know where you are.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.3 released. See post #1 for details.

Try the single mission PQ-17 with this and let me know what you think ;)

[Fattysbox]

Quick installation question:

Opened up the folder where I unzipped to look for you "MOD" folder and couldn't find it. Just see data and documentation folders... Am I missing something or is this the same as your AI installation...:06:

So... What exactly do I copy over into my SH5 folder?


J

[TheDarkWraith]

Quick installation question:

Opened up the folder where I unzipped to look for you "MOD" folder and couldn't find it. Just see data and documentation folders... Am I missing something or is this the same as your AI installation...:06:

So... What exactly do I copy over into my SH5 folder?


J

it's a double folder mod. Take the second folder named 'IRAI_0_0_3_ByTheDarkWraith' and place in your MODS folder and then enable. Yes, I need to fix that problem of not having a MODS folder. I'll do that with the next release.

[7thSeal]

v0.0.3 released. See post #1 for details.

Try the single mission PQ-17 with this and let me know what you think ;)

Tried it and deleted my saved career game afterwards.... starting a new one. :yep:

Don't believe I'll be cruising through my career game so easily now. :DL

[TheDarkWraith]

Tried it and deleted my saved career game afterwards.... starting a new one. :yep:

Don't believe I'll be cruising through my career game so easily now. :DL

I've modeled the AI to be 'level' dependent. Level being the experience level of the crew - poor, novice, veteran, elite, etc. Each 'level' has different parameters for sensor effectiveness, available ship's speeds, etc. There are modifiers for whether they are in alert state (contact detected), damage control state (damage to ship > certain %), or alert state and damage control state at the same time.
There is still more work to be done on it. There's much more than can be done to make the AI appear to be 'smarter'. What I've done currently is just make them 'respond' and actually act like they are alive and remove the useless crap Ubi put in there that is totally unrealistic (like the follow thing).
The one thing I wish the devs would have done is given the same 'tools' to the Airplane AI. I'd love to make them do more than they currently can.
I should also be able to make the AI subs act way more intelligently and 'respond' like the ships do now.
I'd like to bounce ideas off everyone and for everyone to give input/feedback/advice on the tactics used by the ships. I'd like to model the AI to be as realistic as possible to what was then real life :yep:

[SteelViking]

I'd like to bounce ideas off everyone and for everyone to give input/feedback/advice on the tactics used by the ships. I'd like to model the AI to be as realistic as possible to what was then real life :yep:

Sounds good to me.:yeah: You might also want to look into getting the AI weapons to be historically accurate. Meaning realistic dc damage and damage range, realistic ship gun accuracy, and things like that. I know that you focus on more of the scripting side of things, but if you are going to put so much work into the scripts, it would be a shame if the supporting material was not up to par. Maybe someone could volunteer to do some research and help out with doing that. Perhaps you could talk to ddrgn or Nisgeis since they have already done some stuff in regard to AI weapons. Just a suggestion. Good luck with further work on this.:up:

[THE_MASK]

Sounds good to me.:yeah: You might also want to look into getting the AI weapons to be historically accurate. Meaning realistic dc damage and damage range, realistic ship gun accuracy, and things like that. I know that you focus on more of the scripting side of things, but if you are going to put so much work into the scripts, it would be a shame if the supporting material was not up to par. Maybe someone could volunteer to do some research and help out with doing that. Perhaps you could talk to ddrgn or Nisgeis since they have already done some stuff in regard to AI weapons. Just a suggestion. Good luck with further work on this.:up:Noooooo , someone else can do the AI weapons . Crew animations and expanded crew dialogues are next :O:

[SteelViking]

Noooooo , someone else can do the AI weapons . Crew animations and expanded crew dialogues are next :O:

:har: Gonna try and make TDW re-script the whole game are we?



@TDW,

One thing I would not mind seeing that you have not mentioned yet is a destroyer that will wait at your last known position for a certain number of hours. You know, the whole sitting there quietly waiting for you to surface, or starve you of air.

[unionemerald]

I suppose you have to disable other mods like Feared Hunters 2.1 and The Elite Campaign 1.1 when using this excellent mod?

[Zedi]

I had not much time to play, so not much feedback from me so far. I started again the SH5 campaign so I'm in TG again now.

Planes are no more just fly around and say Hi. They turn around and attack.. but can you pls check they ammo? Because many times they just buzzing around but without shoting, I think they are aout of ammo. If I dive to 20 m they stop attacking, but I think this depends on weather and how transparent the water is.

Because I was short on time, I used a lot of TC and when I encountered a convoy the escorts spotted me right before I returned to tc1. So had no time to properly test the convoy AI, only by rushing with TC and doing that, they act weird.. like scattering all over the map. I know the TC bug the AI, so I will test this another time.

Anyway, great improvement on aircrafts, but there is still a lot to improve. Like no fly in night time (at least not in 39), small planes should call in DD's if near of coast or ports instead of engaging a fight with a heavy AA armed sub, stop the attack if out of ammo.

You guys should work in team on this, there is a LOT of work and is impossible to do all this tweaks only by one man. Form a wolfpack :P

[Capt Jack Harkness]

I've modeled the AI to be 'level' dependent. Level being the experience level of the crew - poor, novice, veteran, elite, etc. Each 'level' has different parameters for sensor effectiveness, available ship's speeds, etc. There are modifiers for whether they are in alert state (contact detected), damage control state (damage to ship > certain %), or alert state and damage control state at the same time.
There is still more work to be done on it. There's much more than can be done to make the AI appear to be 'smarter'. What I've done currently is just make them 'respond' and actually act like they are alive and remove the useless crap Ubi put in there that is totally unrealistic (like the follow thing).
The one thing I wish the devs would have done is given the same 'tools' to the Airplane AI. I'd love to make them do more than they currently can.
I should also be able to make the AI subs act way more intelligently and 'respond' like the ships do now.
I'd like to bounce ideas off everyone and for everyone to give input/feedback/advice on the tactics used by the ships. I'd like to model the AI to be as realistic as possible to what was then real life :yep:

Well on the note of feedback, using v0.0.3 I keep getting CTDs when trying to attack a carrier group. Most of the time these occur immediately after impact of the first torpedo on the carrier.

[TheDarkWraith]

:har: One thing I would not mind seeing that you have not mentioned yet is a destroyer that will wait at your last known position for a certain number of hours. You know, the whole sitting there quietly waiting for you to surface, or starve you of air.

that is one thing I'm trying to script in but I'm having a hard time with it. Reason I'm having a hard time is that I can't differentiate between say a V&W destroyer and a Flower Corvette. To the game they are both escorts. So if the behavior of sitting at your last known position is scripted in it will apply to all warships. One could make the warships that detected you at < x distance do this behavior but then if multiple warships detected you @ < x distance they would all be sitting there waiting for you. I don't know if that would be acceptable or not?

EDIT:

just remembered there's a GetWeight function. I could narrow down the warship's that can do this behavior by a weight range (> this min weight and < this max weight) in order to isolate a particular warship(s)

[TheDarkWraith]

Well on the note of feedback, using v0.0.3 I keep getting CTDs when trying to attack a carrier group. Most of the time these occur immediately after impact of the first torpedo on the carrier.

I've never seen a carrier in game yet so I have to ask some questions. If you disable the mod, does this happen? What usually happens when a carrier is first hit with a torpedo, does it do something special?

[Stormfly]

is the change active by installing it in midcampaign or midpatrol ?

[TheDarkWraith]

is the change active by installing it in midcampaign or midpatrol ?

should be. All AI behavior is described by the files in \data\Scripts\AI

[Zedi]

that is one thing I'm trying to script in but I'm having a hard time with it. Reason I'm having a hard time is that I can't differentiate between say a V&W destroyer and a Flower Corvette. To the game they are both escorts. So if the behavior of sitting at your last known position is scripted in it will apply to all warships. One could make the warships that detected you at < x distance do this behavior but then if multiple warships detected you @ < x distance they would all be sitting there waiting for you. I don't know if that would be acceptable or not?



This is how the Feared Hunters worked and the reason why I don't use it anymore since patch 1.2. They gather around the sub last contact position and grind the place dropping millions of DC's, eventually damaging them self and sunk. Seeing 10 or more DD's doing this made me to uninstall all my AI improvement mods and playing only with stock game. Hope that your work will be very different.. actually I'm convinced.

is the change active by installing it in midcampaign or midpatrol ?

Works. I installed this mod when I was out on patrol on the first campaign and at least the planes are acting very different. No more TC to max when aircrafts are spotted. If you do it, u get badly damaged and sunk.

[TheDarkWraith]

This is how the Feared Hunters worked and the reason why I don't use it anymore since patch 1.2. They gather around the sub last contact position and grind the place dropping millions of DC's, eventually damaging them self and sunk. Seeing 10 or more DD's doing this made me to uninstall all my AI improvement mods and playing only with stock game. Hope that your work will be very different.. actually I'm convinced.

I rewrote >75% of the ship's AI so they will act differently :yep: It is an entirely new and different AI than stock or any other AI mod.

[Stormfly]

they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now :o

[TheDarkWraith]

they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now :o

that's what I wanted to hear :rock: Now once I get the DC's tuned to the correct values for damage and radius and all you should be very leary about escorts or single warships detecting you and getting DC'd.

I did notice a bug with the ship's AI though. Once they detect their first contact they are always in alert state even if the contact doesn't exist anymore or is gone (out of range of it's sensors). I'll have to fix that.

[Hartmann]

they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now :o


Operation plaster :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

I did notice a bug with the ship's AI though. Once they detect their first contact they are always in alert state even if the contact doesn't exist anymore or is gone (out of range of it's sensors). I'll have to fix that.
How long do they stay on alert? I know it shouldn't be forever, but it stands to reason that they wouldn't relax immediately if they knew something was in the area.

[Zedi]

I rewrote >75% of the ship's AI so they will act differently :yep: It is an entirely new and different AI than stock or any other AI mod.

Getting near to my dream. Campaign built by the AI :P
Just going out on a simple patrol where you can never know what to expect, just like was in the real life. Random events combined with a smart and evil AI.. damn, gotta love it :P

[SteelViking]

I've never seen a carrier in game yet so I have to ask some questions. If you disable the mod, does this happen? What usually happens when a carrier is first hit with a torpedo, does it do something special?

I have sunk about 5 carriers in SH5(a while back now) and I never got CTD with any of them. The only special thing that sets them apart from other ships when they are struck by a torp that I can think of is that the planes on deck tend to explode and fly into the water. A lot of ship totally explode when struck(some times unrealistically like when I know I did not hit something vital) but the carriers are the only ones I have ever hit with planes on board. Has anyone sunk a cargo ship with planes sitting on it, I know SHIII had them?

[reaper7]

Sorry TDW meant to post this last night after testing, but it was late and I was working in 5hrs time.

Anyway this is a great improvement to the UI. Started The suggested mission.
And headed straight into the pack from the front at periscope depth.
Sent a Torp at the leader from 2000m out to get there attention, and crash dived to 70M.

Went to external camera :shifty: (Playing at medium settings to test Mod).
After a min the Pack Leader got what it deserved and went down fast.
Search lights were lit up on all the remaining vessels. From the External Camera I could see that they didn't know where the Torp came from as a few Groups started to do search patterns about 1500M out from my position - there spot lights searching everywhere.

I Time compressed till they got about 800M out and returned to standard time.
After a min I noticed that all the ships searchlight turned to focus at my spot :DL (I've being discovered - Is this stock behavior or the result of your AI), now the fun begins.

I get 4 destroyers making passes straight over my position dropping depth charges all over the place - no hits but close.
This continued for an hour till I had to turn off. I had not escaped at this point and they dropped a hell of a lot of DC over me, some damage but nothing critical. At this stage I had about 3 Groups making passes and dropping Dc's then moving out of the way for the next group to make its pass. (They would also DC away from my position.

Was exciting to play, look forward to your future additions. :yeah:

Spotlights overhead.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/Ships.jpg

Depth charges Incoming.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/reaper7_bucket/PHCC/Silent%20Hunter%205/Ships2.jpg

[John Channing]

Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.

:D

JCC

[reaper7]

Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.

:D

JCC

That would be nice, if possible to even have the delay random.
Then ships would light up at different times, would give the ships a more lived in look.

Also I seen a mod on the SH3 forums that made the merchants not switch on the searchlights when not directly attacked to attempt to remain unnoticed.
Think this was the general rule for merchants in wartime.
Maybe some could be made to turn on randomly. For the suprise element :D.

Anyway to make the Merchants keep on course (While zigzagging) when the leader stops when convoy under attack, instead of everyone stopping :06:

[TheDarkWraith]

Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.

:D

JCC

not sure anything can be done about the spotlights. The devs didn't give any way to control them in the ship's AI routines.

Next thing I'm going to add to the ship's AI is the destroyer that sits there waiting for you to resurface. My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

Is the AI too smart? Or is the AI not smart enough? Do they find you to easily? Is it impossible to 'lose' them once detected or does it seem about right or ??

[DICY]

I played the PQ-17 mission twice last night with somewhat mixed results. My first try was the one I had issues with, though I'm not sure how big these issues actually are.

The first thing I noticed was that as the escorts approached they appeared to be getting attacked by something, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out by what. It looked like they were dropping Depth Charges at first, but they didn't change course at all and some of the explosions were going off in front of the ships. I couldn't see anything around that might be attacking them (planes/ships), and these certainly weren't explosions caused by another U-Boat. I doubt this has anything to do with your AI but I didn't want to leave it unmentioned.

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts, at which point I surfaced and the mission ended. Again, I don't know if this is actually an AI issue or has more to do with the mission script.

On the second playthrough I wanted to be sure the escorts knew I was there so when they were passing by me I kicked the engines on to make sure they heard me. The result was pretty devastating. I had 7 or 8 ships above me, all taking turns dropping depth charges, and was able to spot the director, sitting there calmly with his light fixed on my position. It took them about 20 minutes to sink me (at 160 meters the whole time), and I don't see any way that I could have gotten away from them. Having given them a much better fix on my location initially than you ever would under normal circumstances it seems about right that I wouldn't have been able to survive the encounter.

Seems like a huge improvement so far, they're very aggressive and effective at pinning you down. My only real concern is with their apparent disinterest at the convoy getting attacked the first time around.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1329/sh5iraitest.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/i/sh5iraitest.jpg/

[Zedi]

not sure anything can be done about the spotlights. The devs didn't give any way to control them in the ship's AI routines.

Next thing I'm going to add to the ship's AI is the destroyer that sits there waiting for you to resurface. My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

Is the AI too smart? Or is the AI not smart enough? Do they find you to easily? Is it impossible to 'lose' them once detected or does it seem about right or ??
The Black Swan is the dedicated sub hunter-killer, the rest is mostly for protection and keeping the threat away. So if is any BS in the convoy, they should stay in shadow and hunt the sub no matter how long will take. The are also equipped for this job, having the best sub detections tools on board. So NFF_Black_Swan should be the most aggressive and feared sub hunter, focus on that.

[reaper7]

I played the PQ-17 mission twice last night with somewhat mixed results. My first try was the one I had issues with, though I'm not sure how big these issues actually are.

The first thing I noticed was that as the escorts approached they appeared to be getting attacked by something, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out by what. It looked like they were dropping Depth Charges at first, but they didn't change course at all and some of the explosions were going off in front of the ships. I couldn't see anything around that might be attacking them (planes/ships), and these certainly weren't explosions caused by another U-Boat. I doubt this has anything to do with your AI but I didn't want to leave it unmentioned.

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts, at which point I surfaced and the mission ended. Again, I don't know if this is actually an AI issue or has more to do with the mission script.

On the second playthrough I wanted to be sure the escorts knew I was there so when they were passing by me I kicked the engines on to make sure they heard me. The result was pretty devastating. I had 7 or 8 ships above me, all taking turns dropping depth charges, and was able to spot the director, sitting there calmly with his light fixed on my position. It took them about 20 minutes to sink me (at 160 meters the whole time), and I don't see any way that I could have gotten away from them. Having given them a much better fix on my location initially than you ever would under normal circumstances it seems about right that I wouldn't have been able to survive the encounter.

Seems like a huge improvement so far, they're very aggressive and effective at pinning you down. My only real concern is with their apparent disinterest at the convoy getting attacked the first time around.



Yes I noticed the Ships depth charging when I first spotted them also, I just put it down to it being a scripted mission and they were expecting an attack :06:.

Also one thing I noticed last night testing. One of the Destroyers was sailing backwards over my position depthcharging, preventing others doing there run. :)

Haven't tried it in game yet to see the results.

[Sonarman]

Hey TDW, great work so far. You've probably seen this in the past but here just in case you haven't is a link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/interactive/games/battle_atlantic/index_embed.shtml)to the great escort tactics presentation/game the BBC put up a while ago, it clearly explains raspberry/pineapple etc.

[SteelViking]

Next thing I'm going to add to the ship's AI is the destroyer that sits there waiting for you to resurface. My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

I know a decent amount of actual naval tactics, however I am no expert, so if anyone knows better please correct me. Here is how I think that should work:

-I would think that a destroyer would do this any time a submarine was detected, as long as there were more than one escort on the convoy/task force.
-Most likely only one or two destroyers would be posted to do this as the sub might have escaped already so they would not want to waste more resources than necessary.
-The Brits had subs, and they of course captured some U-boats so they would have a pretty good estimate of how long the subs air would last. So, I would say have them wait that amount of time before breaking off.
-I think they should definitely hold still with engines stopped, the point is that you can't hear them, so if you don't do a visual sweep with the periscope they would catch you off guard. Plus, if they actually had contact with you, would they not still be depth charging you or calling in reinforcements?
-They should probably stay directly on top of your last known position or maybe just a few meters away.

Again, this is how I THINK it should be, just trying to help. If anyone knows better don't think I would be offended in any way to be told I am wrong.:salute:

Edit: On second thought, just to make the AI a little less predictable, maybe you should only have them do this some of the time. I am still thinking more than 50% of the time though.

[TheDarkWraith]

The first thing I noticed was that as the escorts approached they appeared to be getting attacked by something, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out by what. It looked like they were dropping Depth Charges at first, but they didn't change course at all and some of the explosions were going off in front of the ships. I couldn't see anything around that might be attacking them (planes/ships), and these certainly weren't explosions caused by another U-Boat. I doubt this has anything to do with your AI but I didn't want to leave it unmentioned.

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts, at which point I surfaced and the mission ended. Again, I don't know if this is actually an AI issue or has more to do with the mission script.

not sure about the first one.

Second one though is great feedback! Here's why that happened: in each 'group' of ships there is a commander. When that commander detects you he issues the tactics for the ships in his group to use. Once those tactics are set they don't end until it says so or an end is scripted into the tactic. So in your situation you were detected and the commander set the Plaster tactic. Initially they were coming to 'plaster' you but you evaded. The commander then switched the tactic to spiral seach. I have spiral search set for 60 mins. After 60mins the tactic automatically ends at which time the ships will regroup with the convoy and no tactic is set. I need to do something about this so that if you do evade and attack the convoy the commander will switch out of the spiral search tactic :yep:

[TheBeast]

I agree with most of what SteelViking uses for examples with a couple exceptions.
The DE's camping a location. They should only stay for any prolonged period of time if they were able to actually identify the sound contact as a threat. Sitting in place for hours because of a possible contact just doesnt sound right. Not to mention possible Wolf Pack attack tactics of stripping away escorts before the Merchants are even near the actual location where the bulk of the Wolf Pack intends to attack. Wolf Packs could, in theory easily strip the trailing and flanks escorts by baiting them, leaving 1 or 2 escorts in the front of the convoy.
I know that if SH5 were a MMORPG sim, I would try this tactic with my Squadron (Guild) when attacking escorted convoy's.

With that said, does anyone know of a MMORPG Submarine Simulation that currently exists? If not, I may draw up a story board presentation and show it to some people I know that have the resources to make it happen.

[reaper7]

With that said, does anyone know of a MMORPG Submarine Simulation that currently exists? If not, I may draw up a story board presentation and show it to some people I know that have the resources to make it happen.

Yes one does exist.


Its called Silent Hunter 5.

Its more MMORPG then Simultion :har:
Eat apple Morale +5
Gain ability 1 = Torp Speed +25

etc etc :rotfl2:

[Capt Jack Harkness]

I've never seen a carrier in game yet so I have to ask some questions. If you disable the mod, does this happen? What usually happens when a carrier is first hit with a torpedo, does it do something special?

I'll check it out today. Normally there's just the usual explosions and everyone jumps to their alert state and hunts for me.

[TheDarkWraith]

I screwed up the ship's AI dealing with escorts that are with the convoy and not assigned to the current tactic issued by the commander. Currently they have no strategy that would allow them to attack an enemy if one is detected while there is a tactic set. I will fix this and issue v0.0.4 for feedback on it :yeah:

[Nisgeis]

My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

The only time they'd stop in reality would be to pick up survivors and if they did that, they'd want another escort to steam round them, performing ASW duties.

If they had a contact and were attacking, they'd attack for as long as they had a contact, but would break off if they convoy was too far away. Ideally they'd try to keep all the U-Boats down long enough for the change of course to be effective and stop the U-boats finding them again. The amount of time spared by an escort depended of course on the tactical situation. To lose one escort for an hour out of a ten escort screen is not as bad as losing one escort of a three escort screen as they can't cover the gap. Also, the number of U-Boats present would be a factor in reality, but probably not in the game.

If they lost a contact they'd break off after an hour of seraching or so if they had no other sighting to investigate (a bit like whack-a-mole). The priority was to protect the convoy, not sink the boats, as much as they didn't like to break off. Later on when the support groups came along, they had longer to prosecute the attack.

EDIT: Bear i mind that the early escorts were rickety things that would shake and shudder violenty if they tried to make their top speed of 16 knots (and they were the fast ones). This of course affects how long they can spend away from their charge - if the convoy is moving at 9 knots and they spend an hour at one spot, then it would take them a long time to catch up to the convoy, as their closing speed would be only 6-7 knots at full throttle, even slower in poor weather. Then you have to take into account the poor endurance of the early escorts, which was another limitting factor to how long they could spend charging about. If they bruned up all their fuel chasing U-Boats, they'd have to leave the convoy early. It's all much more complicated tactically than in the game with the speedboats :-).

[SteelViking]

@ TheBeast,

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. I should have explained better, I think the camp out should start after they had depth charged where they thought or knew you were. So naturally, they would have had to have identified you as a threat or else they would not have wasted the dc's trying to get you.

Also, like I said, only one or two DE's should be assigned to this, and if the convoy picks you back up, whatever DE was camping out on your last known location would then move to the new one. So you could not strip the escorts off with this tactic.

Edit: Nisgeis, so you are saying that the camp out tactic is unrealistic altogether?

[DICY]

not sure about the first one.

Second one though is great feedback! Here's why that happened: in each 'group' of ships there is a commander. When that commander detects you he issues the tactics for the ships in his group to use. Once those tactics are set they don't end until it says so or an end is scripted into the tactic. So in your situation you were detected and the commander set the Plaster tactic. Initially they were coming to 'plaster' you but you evaded. The commander then switched the tactic to spiral seach. I have spiral search set for 60 mins. After 60mins the tactic automatically ends at which time the ships will regroup with the convoy and no tactic is set. I need to do something about this so that if you do evade and attack the convoy the commander will switch out of the spiral search tactic :yep:

Ahh, I don't think anyone actually detected me. I simply moved into the convoy's path and let them drive right over me. I went deep because the explosions I'd seen earlier had me thinking there might be another sub in the area that they'd be looking for. They never changed course at all though, just kept leading the convoy, even when I attacked it. A few of the escorts ran erratic patterns behind the leads, but they did that the whole time. I didn't notice a spiral pattern at all.

I think reaper's probably right about the first thing being part of the mission script, is it possible that it's affecting the AI's behavior in some way? I think I'll give it another try and see if I can't duplicate those results.

[Nisgeis]

Edit: Nisgeis, so you are saying that the camp out tactic is unrealistic altogether?

It's all unrealistic, so it doesn't really matter, as the exercise is to make the escorts defend the convoy in the way in which the players would attack it, not a historical attack.

We don't have any problems of manouvering in bad weather, or cross wind like the U-Boats did in reality, so we can attack from anywhere. In real life, they'd attack either by working their way in from behind into the convoy (or possibly submerging ahead) or they'd have to attack from a certain direction ahead of the convoy, one at a time, due to prevailing weather conditions. None of that exists in game, so there is no point in simulating it.

For example, Operation Raspberry is designed to attack a U-Boat after it has worked its way in, attacked in the centre with torpedoes and submerged. I think most players here attack from the side, so Raspberry wouldn't do anything to them. The in game units have 100% sure communication and can vector in DDs perfectly, but this didn't happen IRL so that changes the dynamic of your attack - it's very dangerous to try to work your way into a convoy on the surface. You could modify it so that you could do it, but then people have all sorts of opinions about what is a relistic detection range at night when surfaced, so you may be hit by the 'realistic stick'.

[John Channing]

To the question of destroyers escorting convoys camping it just didn't happen. Escorts were too few and far between to waste even one in an extended search. With the U-Boats using Wolfpack tactics an escort staying behind to wait it out that would leave a large part of the convoy unprotected. The objective of the escorts was to drive the U-boat down and keep him down until the covoy was out of range of an attack.

Later on, when escorts were more plentiful (ie after the US entered the war and started taking the U-Boat threat seriously), there were Hunter/Killer groups assigned to the convoys whose job was to hang back and, once the regular escorts detected a Sub, charge in and stay with it until they killed them. But that was later... late 43 onwards. Until then escorts were too scarce to waste chasing down shadows.

JCC

[Nisgeis]

Later on, when escorts were more plentiful (ie after the US entered the war and started taking the U-Boat threat seriously), there were Hunter/Killer groups assigned to the convoys whose job was to hang back and, once the regular escorts detected a Sub, charge in and stay with it until they killed them.

The British called them support groups. The HK name gives the unfortunate impression that they were out there looking for U-boats on their own, which of course they weren't as that would be a big fat waste of time, just as it was when they tried that before starting the convoy system.

I'll stop spamming the thread now. Sorry.

[SteelViking]

I cannot be certain that this tactic is 100% real, but I have heard of it from several sources. Here is one:

"Prior to the utilization of Hunter/Killer groups, convoys that were fortunate to have enough escorting vessels to allow one or more to remain behind, tenaciously keeping between the convoy and the submarine and forcing it to remain submerged for extended hours, fared a much greater chance in recording a kill then the convoys whose escort complement were somewhat thin."

It does not define "camping out" exactly but it sounds pretty similar.

[Zedi]

Hey TDW, great work so far. You've probably seen this in the past but here just in case you haven't is a LINK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/interactive/games/battle_atlantic/index_embed.shtml)to the great escort tactics presentation/game the BBC put up a while ago, it clearly explains raspberry/pineapple etc.

Great link and I agree.. TDW, you should take a look on this! All you wanna know about tactics used by escorts presented in flash with explicit drawings/animation. Brilliant, wish I could see this in the game!

[TheDarkWraith]

Great link and I agree.. TDW, you should take a look on this! All you wanna know about tactics used by escorts presented in flash with explicit drawings/animation. Brilliant, wish I could see this in the game!

I'll give it a look :up:

Escorts protecting the convoy are no longer 'blind and dumb' when the commander has a tactic set. They will seek you out if they detect you now. I'm giving them a max distance they can be from the convoy before they have to return and trying to set a maximum # that can seek you out of those protecting the convoy.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

I'll check it out today. Normally there's just the usual explosions and everyone jumps to their alert state and hunts for me.

The problem disappears with the mod disabled, carrier blew up and sank and escorts went into their stock alert behavior.

[TheDarkWraith]

The problem disappears with the mod disabled, carrier blew up and sank and escorts went into their stock alert behavior.

think I figured out why it was causing CTDs. I'll be releasing v0.0.4 here soon for people to test. Reason appears to be I wasn't cancelling the current tactic assigned by the commander if the tactic is unable to continue.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Cool, looking forward to 0.0.4 :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

Cool, looking forward to 0.0.4 :up:

did the CTD happen as soon as the torp hit the carrier? Was the carrier instantly destroyed by the torp?

[TheDarkWraith]

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts

v0.0.4 released. See post #1 for details.

I think you'll find it much harder to do what you did above now :DL

NOTE: bombs and DCs are MUCH more effective (deadlier) now :D

[Zedi]

TDW, did you increased the AI visual range at daylight? I have hard time now to approach, even shadowing a convoy. I barely see a vague smoke on the horizon and I'm already on the visual range limit. So that's why I had no chance to test this mod with an attack on a convoy, I'm always spotted 2 soon.

This is not really normal as I'm a sub with a slim and low silhouette and engines are not running with coal. So I should get closer to my targets than a regular ship. I think only a BB should have such a huge visual range as the escorts have now.

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, did you increased the AI visual range at daylight? I have hard time now to approach, even shadowing a convoy. I barely see a vague smoke on the horizon and I'm already on the visual range limit. So that's why I had no chance to test this mod with an attack on a convoy, I'm always spotted 2 soon.

This is not really normal as I'm a sub with a slim and low silhouette and engines are not running with coal. So I should get closer to my targets than a regular ship. I think only a BB should have such a huge visual range as the escorts have now.

I made the following changes to \data\Cfg\Sim.cfg:

[Visual]
Detection time=4 ;[s] min detection time. was 15.0, decreased by 73%
; lower values than 1 make it harder for AI to detect you
Sensitivity=1.0 ;(0..1) min detection threshold double detection time.
Fog factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
; AI's visual acuity
; comes into play at dawn/dusk conditions
; comes into play at night
; too high a value can make the AI blind
Light factor=0.75 ;[>=0] was 1, decreased 25%
Waves factor=5 ;[>=0] was 10, decreased by 50%
Enemy surface factor=25 ;[m2] was 50, decreased by 50%
Enemy speed factor=12.5 ;[kt] was 25, decreased by 50%
Min Signal Strength=0.1
Night Sensitivity Factor=0.3
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=0

[Radar]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
; lower values than 1 make it harder for AI to detect you
Sensitivity=1.0 ;(0..1) was 0.01
Waves factor=0.75 ;[>=0] was 1.0, decreased by 25%


If you don't mind, first try setting the [Visual] Sensitivity to 0.5 and test. If AI still too 'good' at detecting you visually then keep decreasing the [Visual] Sensitivity down to no less than 0.1 in say 0.05 increments. If not much better then play with the [Visual] light factor value to see if that helps (but it will also affect their night vision) by increasing the value in 0.05 increments up to no > 1.5. If it doesn't, then try taking the [Radar] Sensitivity back to 0.01 and see if that helps.

[Zedi]

Right, but what file is this? Actually I'm thinking to return the stock value for visual range on daylight as those were pretty realistic.. escorts had lower visual range, BB's bigger.

Also, at night seems like some merchants go blind, just now I approached to 450m a lonely merchant with the attack scope at max in a custom mission and he had nothing against.. the crew was sleeping or 2 high :D

[TheDarkWraith]

Right, but what file is this?

I need help tweaking the values to get them where they need to be. It's just too much for one person to try and do alone.

\data\Cfg\Sim.cfg

[THE_MASK]

\data\Cfg\Sim.cfg

I need help tweaking the values to get them where they need to be. It's just too much for one person to try and do alone :-?
I am at home all day tomorrow , i will do some testing .

[TheDarkWraith]

I am at home all day tomorrow , i will do some testing .

the following I don't have a concrete understanding of:

Light factor
Waves factor
Enemy speed factor
Night Sensitivity Factor

If you can figure out exactly how those affect each sensor in the sim.cfg file that would be great :yep:

I think the enemy speed factor is the speed above which the ship's speed starts playing a part in degrading the sensor but not sure.

EDIT:

working on fixing the bug of ship's crew staying in alert state indefinitely once they detect a contact in v0.0.5

[THE_MASK]

We have a massive advantage modding detection ranges in SH5
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4441/detect.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/detect.jpg/)

[TheDarkWraith]

Yes we do! That's what I've been using to test/make adjustments and see the outcome of those adjustments. It just takes too long for one person to sit and test everything. Much better when others are working on it also :yep:

[THE_MASK]

What about changing the visual detection time to something like 120 seconds ?

[TheDarkWraith]

What about changing the visual detection time to something like 120 seconds ?

you want to play with the sensitivity. Setting the visual detection time to 120 seconds would cause problems. Here's why:

let's say you surface in front of a merchant. Well it won't detect you visually for at least 120 seconds.....not good.

If you're using my UIs mod then testing can be simplified/helped with these user options in the mod:

MapCoordinatesEnabled = False # stock False
TorpedoImpactPointsEnabled = False # stock False
VisualContactsEnabled = True # stock True
VisualEnabled = True # stock True
HydrophoneEnabled = True # stock True
HydrophoneContactsEnabled = True # stock True
RadarEnabled = True # stock True
RadarContactsEnabled = True # stock True
SonarEnabled = True # stock True
SonarContactsEnabled = True # stock True
ViewConesEnabled = False # stock False

changing these can 'hide' some of the sensors from being rendered in the TAI map (like the view cones) thus isolating one sensor for tweaking (like radar)

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.5 released. See post #1 for details.

Now I'll try and figure out why torpedoing a carrier results in CTDs. I also have to fix the ship AI remaining in constant alert state after they detect their first contact.

[TheBeast]

I am using version 0.05 of this MOD. I noticed that when I am stopped and I set depth to 100 Meters on my VIIC that it only dives to 87 Meters. you may want to ajust this floating issue a bit. I think increasing the submerged displacement value will make the depth more accurate. Currently when submerged moving ahead slow the boat drops from 87 Meters down to 93 Meters so it is taking a lot of extra battery power just trying to keep the submarine down to the specified depth of 100 Meters.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

did the CTD happen as soon as the torp hit the carrier? Was the carrier instantly destroyed by the torp?

Yes, it was as soon as the torpedo hit. When the mod was disabled the carrier did go up with a single hit (strange, but that's a whole different problem :har:).

[Redtail]

TDW, I mentioned this a page or two back.Do the starshells come as part of the remit on the IR AI work? Perhaps you will deal with this under the AI tactics :) Would be nice as part of the eye candy side side of things;)

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, I mentioned this a page or two back.Do the starshells come as part of the remit on the IR AI work? Perhaps you will deal with this under the AI tactics :) Would be nice as part of the eye candy side side of things;)

once I get the mod stable (no CTDs which currently happens with torpedoing battleships and carriers) then I'll start adding eye candy :yep:

EDIT:

single carriers and single battleships don't cause CTDs when you torpedo them. It's only when they are part of a group......

[TheDarkWraith]

Yes, it was as soon as the torpedo hit. When the mod was disabled the carrier did go up with a single hit (strange, but that's a whole different problem :har:).

did you have any other mods enabled at the time when this happened? Had you been already detected when the torp hit?
I just ran the single mission 'The Pedestal' and took out the carrier (which was the commander). As soon as the torp hit the planes all went up in flames, the carrier's back broke, and no CTD. Everything was ok :hmmm:

[Fattysbox]

did you have any other mods enabled at the time when this happened? Had you been already detected when the torp hit?
I just ran the single mission 'The Pedestal' and took out the carrier (which was the commander). As soon as the torp hit the planes all went up in flames, the carrier's back broke, and no CTD. Everything was ok :hmmm:

TDW,

When I hit my QE yesterday I was also using Uboat killer mod. This may cause some conflicts. I installed that mod first, then yours.

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW,

When I hit my QE yesterday I was also using Uboat killer mod. This may cause some conflicts. I installed that mod first, then yours.

figured out why the mod was causing CTDs on some ships :rock: the commander assigns ships to a tactic based on their distance from the enemy contact. Some of these ships have the ability to DC, some don't. Those that don't cause the CTD when they are asked to fire their DCs. I've fixed the problem and I'll be releasing v0.0.6 here soon.
That was one hell of a hard one to find and figure out :x

[SteelViking]

figured out why the mod was causing CTDs on some ships :rock: the commander assigns ships to a tactic based on their distance from the enemy contact. Some of these ships have the ability to DC, some don't. Those that don't cause the CTD when they are asked to fire their DCs. I've fixed the problem and I'll be releasing v0.0.6 here soon.
That was one hell of a hard one to find and figure out :x

Good to hear you got that one fixed! Of course, I never really doubted that you would fix it:haha::woot:

[reaper7]

figured out why the mod was causing CTDs on some ships :rock: the commander assigns ships to a tactic based on their distance from the enemy contact. Some of these ships have the ability to DC, some don't. Those that don't cause the CTD when they are asked to fire their DCs. I've fixed the problem and I'll be releasing v0.0.6 here soon.
That was one hell of a hard one to find and figure out :x

Well done TDW, fault finding can be one tricky pain in the A**. :)

[TheDarkWraith]

turns out it wasn't the whole DC thing causing the CTD. It was my trying to issue a command for the ship assigned to the tactic to head to the contact's location when the contact was NULL. Game doesn't like trying to figure out NULL contacts :DL
I've been testing this for about 3 hours now and it's stable :rock: I've added some new tactics and roles to the ships in v0.0.6. I'll be uploading it here very soon.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.6 released. See post #1 for details.

Hopefully noone will experience CTDs anymore with this :DL

[reaper7]

:up:

[The General]

Thanks DarkWraith, this Community is indebted to you. You have made SH5 playable again. :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks DarkWraith, this Community is indebted to you. You have made SH5 playable again. :up:

thanks! the motivation for me is to make the game playable. Right now I still don't find it playable and thus more work needs to be done. I have much more to do on the AI yet :yep:

[Zedi]

Yesterday I got into a weird situation. Sunk Ark Royal then I was waiting at long distance for the escorts to calm down and leave the crime scene. After 3 hours later they were still circling and searching for me, so I decided to sneak out on silent running. After I was at the visual range limit, somehow one of the escorts got my track. This was the last time I saw the sky for the next 2 days.

No matter what I did, they were all over me. Decoys, all engines stop, slow running at max depth.. nothing worked. After 2 days I surfaced on max speed for few seconds just th refresh the air. Got badly damaged but I survived. But was no use, after the next 2 days I had to give up, they even called reinforcements with fresh loads of DC's.

Now.. this is pretty realistic and usually in this case death is the final result. The only problem is that this happened in 39' where the detection tools were pretty primitive. This scenario in 43'-45' era is realistic, but in 39... not sure. Also, this was a usual escort group with no hunter-killer ships like the Black Swan in it.

Anyway, huge improvement on the gameplay, no doubt about. It's almost a different game.

[TheDarkWraith]

Yesterday I got into a weird situation. Sunk Ark Royal then I was waiting at long distance for the escorts to calm down and leave the crime scene. After 3 hours later they were still circling and searching for me, so I decided to sneak out on silent running. After I was at the visual range limit, somehow one of the escorts got my track. This was the last time I saw the sky for the next 2 days.

No matter what I did, they were all over me. Decoys, all engines stop, slow running at max depth.. nothing worked. After 2 days I surfaced on max speed for few seconds just th refresh the air. Got badly damaged but I survived. But was no use, after the next 2 days I had to give up, they even called reinforcements with fresh loads of DC's.

Now.. this is pretty realistic and usually in this case death is the final result. The only problem is that this happened in 39' where the detection tools were pretty primitive. This scenario in 43'-45' era is realistic, but in 39... not sure. Also, this was a usual escort group with no hunter-killer ships like the Black Swan in it.

the bug of crew AI always in alert state when they spot their first contact is still present. When I get that fixed it should alleviate, for the most part, what happened to you (based on year in time)

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.7 released. This fixes the bug of ship's crew state staying in alert once the ship detects it's first contact. See post #1 for details :|\\

[reaper7]

Good going. This is really making thing interesting. :DL

[Will-Rommel]

TDW, in my opinion you are currently the alpha male of sh5! :up:

(Props to others hard working modders like steelviking and W-clear too of course)

[TheDarkWraith]

working on implementing tactics for hunter killer groups now :DL

[TheBeast]

Had my first run in with enemy aircraft since I installed this MOD. I was 75 Ktms east of Blyth/Tyne running on the surface recharging batteries just after sun set(21:38 hour). Depth under keel was 182 meters.
When the aircraft were spotted, I assumed they would just fly by and wave as usual, so I didn't bother to dive, not so. These 2 guys come in guns blazing, churning the sea around my boat in to a frothing boil and screwed up 3 of my crew doing 12% hull damage on the first pass. My Flak Gunners scored few hits on both aircraft at the same time and they are both smoking. Again, I did not dive assuming they are damage and would RTB, not so. They continued attacking.
I began evasive maneuvers and after 3 more passes I was able to destroy one of them and the other being damaged badly with flame trailing behind it, stalled and crashed.

This MOD is doing wonders for the AI. Thank you for taking the time and looking into these things.

P.S. The Bastages called for help before they went down. Had 2 more on me after posting the first part above.

Even after I submerge, the aircraft continue to pound my last known position and do not appear to be leaving any time soon.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=255&pictureid=2495

[Zedi]

...
Even after I submerge, the aircraft continue to pound my last known position and do not appear to be leaving any time soon.
The planes are circling even after the contact is lost and they will spend all the ammo by shooting in the water where the sub was spoted last time. Even after the ammo is depleted they will continue to do the same loop forever. They actually have the same strategy as the escort ships have now, just camp the last contact spot forever. Hope the latest version will fix this.

[xristoskaiti]

Now planes are resistant or fall down like flies? :sunny:

[TheDarkWraith]

The planes are circling even after the contact is lost and they will spend all the ammo by shooting in the water where the sub was spoted last time. Even after the ammo is depleted they will continue to do the same loop forever. They actually have the same strategy as the escort ships have now, just camp the last contact spot forever. Hope the latest version will fix this.

that's good info to know :up: I'll have to fix that.

[TheBeast]

I was just thankfull they didn't have Depth Charges or I would have been toast.
Hull at 46% from just 2 encounters of 2 planes. After about 30 minutes there were over 8 planes there circling, taking turns on gun runs.

P.S. I was running version 0.0.6 at the time. I have installed v0.0.7 now.

[TheDarkWraith]

I was just thankfull they didn't have Depth Charges or I would have been toast.
Hull at 46% from just 2 encounters of 2 planes. After about 30 minutes there were over 8 planes there circling, taking turns on gun runs.

do I hear a that was an exciting encounter? I'm having fun playing the game now and hope you all are also :D

[TheBeast]

do I hear a that was an exciting encounter? I'm having fun playing the game now and hope you all are also :D

Oh Yes!:woot:

[TheDarkWraith]

Oh Yes!:woot:

wait till a torpedo bomber surprises you.....When it detects you it doesn't come in from high, it's skimming the surface from way out to your location. Nasty :rock:

[TheBeast]

wait till a torpedo bomber surprises you.....When it detects you it doesn't come in from high, it's skimming the surface from way out to your location. Nasty :rock:

The image generated in my minds eye is awesum...

[TheDarkWraith]

Just remembered why the Airplane AI is so dumb.....the devs didn't give enough commands or control over them. What you see in this mod is about the best I can make the Airplane AI do :wah:

[SteelViking]

TDW, in my opinion you are currently the alpha male of sh5! :up:

(Props to others hard working modders like steelviking and W-clear too of course)

Wow, it is an honor to be thanked in the same post as TDW and W_clear.:rock:

Edit: I have to hand it to you TDW, this mod is making me want to stop modding SH5 and start playing it:D

[reaper7]

WI have to hand it to you TDW, this mod is making me want to stop modding SH5 and start playing it:D

Likewise, and I had just rcently reinstalled SH4 and uboat missions.
And since my stupid Script Editor keeps CTD, can't Mod due to it - I may just go play in SH5 for a while :-?.

[SteelViking]

Likewise, and I had just rcently reinstalled SH4 and uboat missions.
And since my stupid Script Editor keeps CTD, can't Mod due to it - I may just go play in SH5 for a while :-?.

Darn, I was hoping you would be able to work that problem out.

[Madox58]

Some AirCraft dropped dye or smoke markers on a Subs last known position.
;)
Mostly the larger AirCraft did this to vector in follow up Units.
Adapt the Oil slick with a Yellowish Green for the Dye marker.
Adapt any smoke effect as needed.
There you have the special Bombs.
Later years,
they dropped sonar buoys to radio the Subs location.
I have the modded dye markers and sonar stuff for SH4 never released.

[TheBeast]

Operation Weserjbung: IRAI_0_0_7_ByTheDarkWraith

Disclaimer:
My boat has the Improved Tarnmatte Upgrade Pack installed...Repeating what I am describing below with out this Upgrade Pack it is not possible with this MOD. I tried, 4 times.

Situation:
I engaged the Task Force in Narvik Territorial Waters. I approached the Task Force 1200 Meters off Head-On from the Battle Ship to avoid lead Destroyer. My course 251 degree, Silent Running <= 1 knots, Depth 27 Meters.
Torpedo's:
Tube #1 = Type-III Electric
Tube #2 = Type-III Electric
Tube #3 = Type-I Steam
Tube #4 = Type-I Steam
Tube #5 = Type-IX Electric-Passive Acoustic Homing

After Calculating Battleship's speed and course using sonar only (because the enemy ship can visually spot me if I use the scope to much at my current range.) I moved into a 85 degree, Starboard Side impact attack position, range approximately 800-900 meter. Set Electric Torpedo Depths to 6.5 meters, Impact Detonation. I set my Steam Torpedo Depths to 6.9 Meters, Impact Detonation. Calculated Electric and Steam(Fast) torpedo run times for 900 Meters so the Steam Torpedo's will impact 10-15 seconds after the Electric Torpedo's. Type-IX Torpedo set to Depth of 1.1 Meters. Opened all Torpedo Tubes and waited for the Lead Destroyer to pass bearing 0 (zero) and raised up to 15 Meters. Up Periscope just to get position fix on Battleship then Down Periscope. Battleship is right on my estimated course line I calculated earlier. When Battleship passed bearing 340 degree I raised the Periscope, locked on to the Battleship and fired tubes 1 and 2 aiming for Foreword Deck Gun and lowered Periscope. When the target passed bearing 346 I raised the scope and locked on and fired tubes 3 and 4 aim Mid Ship. Set new Depth to 150 meters maintain all stop. As I am descending I picked torpedo's to load. I can hear the Battleship now. It just now increased speed because it see's the Steam Torpedo's. 2 seconds after the target increased speed the two electric torpedo's impact, Shortly after (5-7 Sec) both Steam torpedo's impact.
I have not been detected yet, current depth 75 meters I set speed to just under 1 knot. Immediately I hear 2 destroyers fire up their engines, one to port and one to Fore Starboard so I deployed a decoy, set speed to max for 30 seconds, then set all stop and coast. External View - located decoy. The destroyers score several hits on the decoy, my boat rocked a little but no one is screaming anything about damage so I am OK. I continue watching the decoy for approximately 5-10 minutes. My depth is now 151 meters, set speed to just under 1 knot, set course to 135 degree. Destroyers stay focused on the decoy. Several minutes pass, I am using the Observation Periscope now, monitoring the area directly above me for any ships. I spot 1 destroyer closing from my port side that obviously hears me because it stops, so I go all stop as well. 30 minutes pass and all the destroyers start moving off. After waiting another 10 minutes I set course 90 degree speed 2 knots and I escaped.

Morale of this story - the destroyers left the area after approximate 1 hour. So things are really shaping up.

[THE_MASK]

The funny thing is , british coastal waters has become the hardest mission now with plenty of planes and shallow waters . Well maybe not that funny , as i am not looking forward to doing it .

[The General]

DarkWraith, have you seen this new Thread that came about after Elanaiba posted that there is a [slim] possiblity of a new Patch? He recently asked this Community what improvements they'd like to see.

Here is the link:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172155

[Zedi]

The funny thing is , british coastal waters has become the hardest mission now with plenty of planes and shallow waters . Well maybe not that funny , as i am not looking forward to doing it .

Also playing with the lite campaign mod is mandatory now. If I manage to sink 2-3 merchants in a convoy and escape.. is party time.
Anyway, those who were in charge with the scripting part of SH5 should quit their job and start another career. Obviously they suck hard.

[TheDarkWraith]

The funny thing is , british coastal waters has become the hardest mission now with plenty of planes and shallow waters . Well maybe not that funny , as i am not looking forward to doing it .

Also playing with the lite campaign mod is mandatory now. If I manage to sink 2-3 merchants in a convoy and escape.. is party time.
Anyway, those who were in charge with the scripting part of SH5 should quit their job and start another career. Obviously they suck hard.

you guys are not going to like what I've done with hunter-killer groups then......I almost have them complete in v0.0.8.

There's one problem with the hk groups: if a convoy has multiple hk groups then all of them will converge on you. There is no way that I can say group x don't respond other than if their distance from you is x meters. Wish they gave ways to better control the AI. Once an hk group detects you it's extremely hard to get away - currently I'm trying to add the ship that just sits there waiting for you to surface again.
Now the hk groups don't have to be in convoys - they can be their own group as the game models. You could run into a task force and never survive it.

[Zedi]

you guys are not going to like what I've done with hunter-killer groups then......I almost have them complete in v0.0.8.

Depends. Struggling with the random escorts in Happy Times could be frustrating, but later on in 42-43 is kinda normal to be hunted in every possible way. Even so, there should be a detection limit tho.. if I push my sub under the safe dive limits I should have a chance to escape undetected. The thermal layer was a true story :)

Regarding the HK groups, as far as I know those were not regular escorts and their director was the Black Swan type destroyer who was the "director". Regular escorts had no sofisticated tools to hunt down a sub, they main objective was to protect the convoy and keep the sub busy until the convoy gets into safe waters.

[TheDarkWraith]

Depends. Struggling with the random escorts in Happy Times could be frustrating, but later on in 42-43 is kinda normal to be hunted in every possible way. Even so, there should be a detection limit tho.. if I push my sub under the safe dive limits I should have a chance to escape undetected. The thermal layer was a true story :)

I kept the thermal layer attenuation for the hydrophone and sonar. We may need to tweak those values until they are at the correct values though.

[TheBeast]

Would it be possible to reduce enemy visual detection. A Task Force can spot my attack periscope barely out of the water at 7,000 meters. I would think they would see my periscope at a range more like 4,000 and Merchants should be able to detect the periscope at 1,500.
I have nothing to back this, just ranges that sound a bit more realistic to me.

[THE_MASK]

I was near a convoy at night concentrating on getting close , it was dark and i could barely see the ships . I was at peri depth . Benno gave the nearest warship at 343 at long distance . So i gave the order to increase engine speed to 5 knots . I rotated the scope to about 40 degrees to have a look and a destroyer nearly filled up the scope view . He didnt detect me though .

[W_clear]

I tested the Intelligent Random AI MOD. I would like to give feedback to @TheDarkWraith.

1.DD high frequency of firing depth charges,The result is not sink SUB when DD run out of depth charges .

2.Launch depth charges hit rate is too low, basically blind shot。

3.Destroyer slow response speed 。

My test mission:

submarine VS destroyer x3。Properties all are elite of the destroyers.submarine diving 50 meters and stop ，30 minutes late,Although the submarine very serious injury but destroyers still not sunk Submarines，

Expectations:
1. Destroyers close to SUB t by the Z word.
2.Improve the hit rate of firing depth charges.
3.Improving the sensitivity of destroyers.
4.Destroyers can attack periscope.
:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

I tested the Intelligent Random AI MOD. I would like to give feedback to @TheDarkWraith.

1.DD high frequency of firing depth charges,The result is not sink SUB when DD run out of depth charges .

2.Launch depth charges hit rate is too low, basically blind shot。

3.Destroyer slow response speed 。

My test mission:

submarine VS destroyer x3。Properties all are elite of the destroyers.submarine diving 50 meters and stop ，30 minutes late,Although the submarine very serious injury but destroyers still not sunk Submarines，

Expectations:
1. Destroyers close to SUB t by the Z word.
2.Improve the hit rate of firing depth charges.
3.Improving the sensitivity of destroyers.
4.Destroyers can attack periscope.
:salute:

if those 3 X destroyers were not in a group then yes, I would expect you to get what you are seeing. Try making a group of them with the mission editor and redoing your test. The tactics don't come into affect until there is a commander (a group of ships)

[W_clear]

if those 3 X destroyers were not in a group then yes, I would expect you to get what you are seeing. Try making a group of them with the mission editor and redoing your test. The tactics don't come into affect until there is a commander (a group of ships)

Yes。 3 X destroyers were not in a group in my mission.But if you encounter a destroyer, that alone destroyer would be very foolish ？

The same mission in SH4, destroyer anti-submarine are strong, so I think this error is SH5's.Similarly adjusted Sim.cfg, reflecting strong in SH4, no significant response in SH5.

My Atlantic MOD for the SH4 ------ Sim.cfg, AI is very, very strong, I'm afraid met destroyers. However SH5..........................:damn:

[Piggy]

TDW, have you changed anything with the amount of destroyers, or just their AI?

I ask because last night, (my first full night of actually enjoying SH5) I came across a convoy in the western approaches. This being my first real experince with a large convoy I was suprised to see about 8 or 9 destroyers protecting it. I was never able to get a shot off because their coverage was so good, even running at silent and 1knot.

I have a feeling this is a stock issue and nothing you've changed, but for there to be that many DD's in 1939 escorting 1 convoy seems a tad overkill to say the least. I spent the next 4-5 hours (game time, not real time) trying to escape all of them and fighting the damned depth keeping problem.

So Kudo's to that! When I thought I was clear from them I nearly surfaced right underneath one just sitting there and waiting for me, bugger....:arrgh!:

So, is there an easy way to reduce the number of escorts? I dont mind dodging HK groups but when you've got 8 to 10 DD's covering a convoy is nigh on impossible to penetrate and get a shot off. I can understand if this was late war, but we're talking 1939 here.

On a side note, I did sink the Ark Royal a short time later and wasnt DC'd once, in fact her escorts seemed to not even care their flagship went down. Comparing that instance with my run with the convoy escorts is quite the extreme opposite.

[Zedi]

IRAI has nothing 2 do with the escort numbers, that's covered by the campaign script, TDW is working only on the AI behavior. I also sunk AR, but had a very different xp, wrote about few posts ago.

Try to sneak into a convoy and start the attack from there. Is my favorite tactic but I never managed to do that so far with IRAI on. I'm really curious how they will react to this, with stock game is real fun as is a cat-mouse chase through the pack of dazed merchants. With IRAI on, should be not so funny, mostly a fight for survival.

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, have you changed anything with the amount of destroyers, or just their AI?

I ask because last night, (my first full night of actually enjoying SH5) I came across a convoy in the western approaches. This being my first real experince with a large convoy I was suprised to see about 8 or 9 destroyers protecting it. I was never able to get a shot off because their coverage was so good, even running at silent and 1knot.

I have a feeling this is a stock issue and nothing you've changed, but for there to be that many DD's in 1939 escorting 1 convoy seems a tad overkill to say the least. I spent the next 4-5 hours (game time, not real time) trying to escape all of them and fighting the damned depth keeping problem.

So Kudo's to that! When I thought I was clear from them I nearly surfaced right underneath one just sitting there and waiting for me, bugger....:arrgh!:

So, is there an easy way to reduce the number of escorts? I dont mind dodging HK groups but when you've got 8 to 10 DD's covering a convoy is nigh on impossible to penetrate and get a shot off. I can understand if this was late war, but we're talking 1939 here.

On a side note, I did sink the Ark Royal a short time later and wasnt DC'd once, in fact her escorts seemed to not even care their flagship went down. Comparing that instance with my run with the convoy escorts is quite the extreme opposite.

I'm only changing their behavior as Magnum stated.

This report does show me one tactic that I didn't think about - a ship gets destroyed in the group and no escort has a contact. This scenario should send the escorts out looking. I'll have to implement this :yep:

[reaper7]

I'm only changing their behavior as Magnum stated.

This report does show me one tactic that I didn't think about - a ship gets destroyed in the group and no escort has a contact. This scenario should send the escorts out looking. I'll have to implement this :yep:


Yes, that should improve the Escorts just steaming on as of nothing happened :up:

[Piggy]

I'm only changing their behavior as Magnum stated.

This report does show me one tactic that I didn't think about - a ship gets destroyed in the group and no escort has a contact. This scenario should send the escorts out looking. I'll have to implement this :yep:

Yeah I was expecting all hell to break loose, clearly they need a little revenge scripting!

I'll look into changing the number of escorts somewhere else, unless this convoy was a just special? I can't really recal ever reading about that many escorts, especially in the early years.

[THE_MASK]

ARAI 0.7
I headed towards a convoy , they were heading towards me at 0 deg in medium fog . I got sight of the lead destroyer coming out of the fog and dived to periscope depth , went to silent running and 1 knot . The seas were rough 15m/s and my scope was just catching a glimpse of him now and again . He was quite close but didnt detect me . A line of merchants were heading for me out of the fog so i headed away from the destroyer getting inbetween the columns of merchies . When i had a merchie lined up about 90deg i fired 2 torps forward and one rear torp at the merchie behind me . The merchie in front exploded and stopped but never sank . The merchie behind kept going , i think i was too close for the torp to arm . I dived to 100 mts and after a while i was being pinged . I let off a decoy and did an evasive manouvre at full speed for 2 minutes and then dropped back to silent running at 1 knot . I can hear a lot of depth charges being dropped . I dont have external camera so after detecting the destroyer behind me i went to peri depth and to my dismay i saw quite a few destroyers milling around . I had a quick look around and seen the burning merchie and then a destroyer obviously detected me and was heading for me quite fast . Emergency dive again with decoys and evasive manouvres and then 1 knot silent running . This went on for quite a while with all the destroyers searching . Finally after a run at full speed for 4 minutes after dropping numerous decoys and my compressed air running low benno confirmed the nearest destroyer was at medium range . Not believing benno i went to peri depth and i rotated the scope for a recon look around . I could see the burning merchie with a destroyer on the other side of it . All except 2 destroyers had left to catch up to the merchant pack . All of a sudden one of the 2 destroyers that stayed behind hunting me steamed off at full power and soon after the other destroyer left also . I shot another torp into the burning merchant and it exploded and sank , then i surfaced and headed home . I think ARAI is working quite well :rock:

[Zedi]

Here is a report from Scapa. In general, all ships are on halt. Entered from west side and soon I meet a destroyer that was blocking the entrance. She was doing nothing, just standing there. So I had to sunk her. No reaction from anybody.

Further to the center I sunk a docked troop transport ship then I moved to the very center of the bay where I meed a Nelson BB and 2 other troop transport ship. Right next to the Nelson was a docked DD. So I saved the game and prepared to die. Unloaded all my torpedoes to the BB and one of the troop transporter. Got both sunk but again ... I got no reaction from any ship. Not even from the one docked next to the BB. The whole bay was like after a nuke, abandoned with no living thing in it, a ghost bay. Got bored and returned to the west side exit. After I lost the visual contact with the ships, I surfaced and put the gramophone on the con tower to listen some nice german lieds :P

Compared to the stock, this is not good. With stock there is at least 2-3 DD's circling around. They don't react, but at least they patrolling. Now all ship was on halt, got only 1 moving ship on the sonar, but that was far at the dock. So not sure what to think... docked ships have no crew at all, or they all drunk?

Scapa is maybe the biggest disappointment in SH5, there is no other port where I can get in so easy and also sink capital ships without being bothered by any1. If what elanaiba said is true, I can sink the whole royal navy capital ships by camping the place for 1 month, then we should win the war.

[PL_Andrev]

v0.0.5 released. See post #1 for details.

Now I'll try and figure out why torpedoing a carrier results in CTDs. I also have to fix the ship AI remaining in constant alert state after they detect their first contact.

Ekhm...
What is CTDs? :oops:

[TheDarkWraith]

Here is a report from Scapa. In general, all ships are on halt. Entered from west side and soon I meet a destroyer that was blocking the entrance. She was doing nothing, just standing there. So I had to sunk her. No reaction from anybody.

Further to the center I sunk a docked troop transport ship then I moved to the very center of the bay where I meed a Nelson BB and 2 other troop transport ship. Right next to the Nelson was a docked DD. So I saved the game and prepared to die. Unloaded all my torpedoes to the BB and one of the troop transporter. Got both sunk but again ... I got no reaction from any ship. Not even from the one docked next to the BB. The whole bay was like after a nuke, abandoned with no living thing in it, a ghost bay. Got bored and returned to the west side exit. After I lost the visual contact with the ships, I surfaced and put the gramophone on the con tower to listen some nice german lieds :P

Compared to the stock, this is not good. With stock there is at least 2-3 DD's circling around. They don't react, but at least they patrolling. Now all ship was on halt, got only 1 moving ship on the sonar, but that was far at the dock. So not sure what to think... docked ships have no crew at all, or they all drunk?

Scapa is maybe the biggest disappointment in SH5, there is no other port where I can get in so easy and also sink capital ships without being bothered by any1. If what elanaiba said is true, I can sink the whole royal navy capital ships by camping the place for 1 month, then we should win the war.

part of the problem is the ships were docked. I haven't found a way to undock a ship and make it come after you. Once the ship is marked as docked it's forever frozen in time to that docked location. The sensor effectiveness of a docked ship is very low - the docked alert state isn't that much better either. The other problem is I don't have the AI responding to unknown contacts. Currently the ship's AI only responds to sub contacts. I'm working on fixing this but it's slow moving as any little error in the .AIX files instantly CTDs the game. Makes it hard to find the error/bug.....:damn: The .AIX files are not like the .py files where when they throw an exception a little messagebox pops up telling you the error/what went wrong giving you some clue and a place to start looking.

@Antar: CTD = crash to desktop

[Zedi]

Ekhm...
What is CTDs? :oops:

Crash To Desktop.

Similar to the BSOD.. blue screen of death, the very (un)popular feature of Win98.

[Zedi]

part of the problem is the ships were docked. I haven't found a way to undock a ship and make it come after you. Once the ship is marked as docked it's forever frozen in time to that docked location. The sensor effectiveness of a docked ship is very low - the docked alert state isn't that much better either. The other problem is I don't have the AI responding to unknown contacts. Currently the ship's AI only responds to sub contacts. I'm working on fixing this but it's slow moving as any little error in the .AIX files instantly CTDs the game. Makes it hard to find the error/bug.....:damn: The .AIX files are not like the .py files where when they throw an exception a little messagebox pops up telling you the error/what went wrong giving you some clue and a place to start looking.



Well, Scapa is a very badly designed but even so, is the first time I saw docked patrol ships. I camped millions of times that place, but every time the destroyers are on the move. Maybe something makes them to stop... :hmmm:

[Nisgeis]

part of the problem is the ships were docked. I haven't found a way to undock a ship and make it come after you. Once the ship is marked as docked it's forever frozen in time to that docked location. The sensor effectiveness of a docked ship is very low - the docked alert state isn't that much better either.

If you are after realism, then docked ships would be unable to respond in less than a few hours and that's assuming they were equipped. They'd take considerbale time to fire up their boilers and raise enough steam to get underway. A lot of the crew may also not be onboard. Leaping into action is not something they should do immediately.

The other problem is I don't have the AI responding to unknown contacts. Currently the ship's AI only responds to sub contacts. I'm working on fixing this but it's slow moving as any little error in the .AIX files instantly CTDs the game. Makes it hard to find the error/bug.....:damn: The .AIX files are not like the .py files where when they throw an exception a little messagebox pops up telling you the error/what went wrong giving you some clue and a place to start looking.

If an unknown contact is out of their visual range or if it's foggy or rainy, they can be passed a pobable contact that is in a certain place (possible near you) at a guessed depth. The guessed depth can be wrong, so if you rely on having any hunting behaviour that needs GetContactDepth() < 0, then it won't work, as the unknown contact could be at 4M, even though you are submerged. You can combine (( Ship:ContactIs(SUBMARINE) and GetContactDepth() < Whatever ) or Ship:ContactIs(UNKNOWN)) to get round it. That's the reason that the stock harbour defence doesn't react a lot of the time.

[The General]

I am very glad to see Nisgeis and DarkWraith working together on the A.I. If anybody can get it working right you guys can:salute:

[PL_Andrev]

I ask because last night, (my first full night of actually enjoying SH5) I came across a convoy in the western approaches. This being my first real experince with a large convoy I was suprised to see about 8 or 9 destroyers protecting it. I was never able to get a shot off because their coverage was so good, even running at silent and 1knot.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the German uboats attacked convoys on the surface at night. When allies had radars on escorts (black may), attacks on convoys have become impossible.
Try to attack the night on surface.
This is no SH3, this is SH5...
:arrgh!:

[sergei]

This is no SH3, this is SH5...
:arrgh!:

Hmmm.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean. :06:
In SH3 all my attacks at night are on the surface.
(Until radar turns up!)

[Zedi]

Good luck with that on 100% realism ...

[sergei]

Yep, you're right magnum.
Playing at 100% realism it is a challenge and luck does play a major part in each attack. :yep:
Still, I've only been lit up a couple of times before the eels go boom.

[mobucks]

ugh i gotta re-buy this game... this all sounds awesome, and ive only read the last 4 posts.

[THE_MASK]

Maybe things would be diffrent at scapa flow if the game actually had mines and boom nets and barriers and block ships and better scripted shipping and barage balloons and gun defences .

[SteelViking]

Maybe things would be diffrent at scapa flow if the game actually had mines and boom nets and barriers and block ships and better scripted shipping and barage balloons and gun defences .

Yeah, coastal batteries, mines, and nets are my biggest complaints left about SH5.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.8 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

unknown contacts (surfaced and submerged) are now handled and Hunter-Killer groups are implemented. You have been warned.....;) I have yet to implement tactics for unknown air contacts.

[PL_Andrev]

v0.0.8 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

unknown contacts (surfaced and submerged) are now handled and Hunter-Killer groups are implemented. You have been warned.....;) I have yet to implement tactics for unknown air contacts.

Great news!
Thank you, TDW!
:yeah:

[TheBeast]

Excellent!:rock:

Time to hunt and hide.:up:

[SteelViking]

Complete AI re-script!?:rock: TDW, when do you even breath?(I already know you don't sleep or take breaks to eat:O:)

[THE_MASK]

Complete AI re-script!?:rock: TDW, when do you even breath?(I already know you don't sleep or take breaks to eat:O:)TDW doesnt need sleep . Sleep waits for TDW .

[panzerschutze12ss]

Chuck Norris gets TDW's coffee!!!

[reaper7]

Amazing, SH5 is alive :yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

Is the AI 'too smart' at finding/locating unknown contacts? I'm really curious to know as there are other ways I can make them search.
How's the HK groups? They should pose a good challenge. With all the randomness now in the mod it should make you really start guessing/wondering what an enemy ship will do.
There's a little more work to be done on the ships AI and then I need to rewrite the sub AI. They aren't the brightest at finding/locating/firing currently. Whether it's an enemy AI sub or friendly AI sub I want to be scared when I see one at distance - especially when it submerges.

[PL_Andrev]

TDW,

I understand that your IRAI mod still need much of work and your time, you have in plans many mailstones for this mod and I should be patient, but...

What about AI torpedoes?
1) At your video plane AI is attacking stopped ship, but what about moving target? AI should know distance, AoB, speed of target and changes his course to successful attack. Ok, this problem is gone when attacked ship is unarmed, closed, slow merchant attacked by plane, but what about far, fast, or high-AA warship? What about calculation perfect distance to push torpedo for attack?
2) What about AI submarine attack at warships/merchants/surfaced and submerged submarines? The human must know all parameters to the TDC, but AI should decide about torpedo speed/kind/depth? This is problem with best moment to attack, calculate to chance attack for high-valuable target and be safe too... Or maybe better solution is surface attack? Or attack by deck guns?
3) What about AI torpedo attack by light warships? On my experience from SH2vsDC and E:RT it looks, that the very dangerous antisub weapon was torpedo shoot by light warships too (human DD keep parallel course to detected submarine and at first try to attack by torpedo salvo at periscope depth). It is possible with this mod?

[TheDarkWraith]

What about AI torpedoes?
1) At your video plane AI is attacking stopped ship, but what about moving target? AI should know distance, AoB, speed of target and changes his course to successful attack. Ok, this problem is gone when attacked ship is unarmed, closed, slow merchant attacked by plane, but what about far, fast, or high-AA warship? What about calculation perfect distance to push torpedo for attack?
2) What about AI submarine attack at warships/merchants/surfaced and submerged submarines? The human must know all parameters to the TDC, but AI should decide about torpedo speed/kind/depth? This is problem with best moment to attack, calculate to chance attack for high-valuable target and be safe too... Or maybe better solution is surface attack? Or attack by deck guns?
3) What about AI torpedo attack by light warships? On my experience from SH2vsDC and E:RT it looks, that the very dangerous antisub weapon was torpedo shoot by light warships too (human DD keep parallel course to detected submarine and at first try to attack by torpedo salvo at periscope depth). It is possible with this mod?

1) the devs didn't provide any means for setting the AI torps parameters before firing. All firing is controlled by the unit. I wish there was a way to make the AI torp 'lead' the target but there isn't. For them to hit a moving target is a miracle at best - it's more just an annoyance for the attacked unit of watching out for the torpedo and not turning into it's path

2) I have yet to rewrite the Sub AI but I can tell you that the devs didn't expose any way to set it's torp parameters. Once again it's all controlled by the unit.

3) as I've been looking through the files, there are some ships that have weapons capable of firing torps. Problem is the devs didn't expose any way to make them fire those torps. They exposed ways to force them to fire DCs. We need that same method or something like it in order for the AI ships to fire AI torps. I can't even tell if a ship has AI torps or not by code.

The AI is severely crippled in SH5. If the devs could expose more methods for the AI it would help tremendously. The airplane AI needs this badly. Maybe the devs have this coded in already. If they do then there's no document or list saying what all available methods are to use - there's a document for the ships but I've found that it isn't complete. For the airplanes I went through the files and generated my own list. I have to make a list for the sub AI also yet as one wasn't provided :nope:

[Rickster1]

Great work, please keep it up as your hard work makes this game better and better

[TheDarkWraith]

doing a little digging in the files for items I want to see working and found that the mines are in the game and they have the necessary controllers to detonate on impact with them. Now makes we wonder why I never see any :hmmm:

Also found 3 little gems that are included in the .eqp files of some ships but never see firing:

Torpedo_Tubes_21in_GER
Torpedo_Tubes_Mk14
Graf_Spee_Torpedoes_GER

The reason they don't fire anything is that they are missing controllers. We'll have to see if we can fix this :yep: Would love to see the ships firing torpedoes at subs or other ships :D

[SteelViking]

doing a little digging in the files for items I want to see working and found that the mines are in the game and they have the necessary controllers to detonate on impact with them. Now makes we wonder why I never see any :hmmm:

Also found 3 little gems that are included in the .eqp files of some ships but never see firing:

Torpedo_Tubes_21in_GER
Torpedo_Tubes_Mk14
Graf_Spee_Torpedoes_GER

The reason they don't fire anything is that they are missing controllers. We'll have to see if we can fix this :yep: Would love to see the ships firing torpedoes at subs or other ships :D

Nice finds:yeah:
But, are you saying that mines could be implemented? How would one go about it? Surely if it was as easy as say, adding them in terrain editor, someone would have done it already. Or is there no 3d model for them?

[BIGREG]

Hi ,and thank TDW for works , Great :yeah:

for the mines and nets , i have see the 3dMeshs in the game :

C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Library\AntiSubNet.dat

and C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\data\Library\NavalMine.dat

and ohter 3d things :hmmm: once in .DAT ,once in .GR2 :doh:

this game is a " casse-tetes " in french :rotfl2:

[Madox58]

The Mines and Nets don't work because they are not programed into the
Class Type Library it seems.

Type 500 and 501 don't work.
Re-class them and they can be placed with the Mission editor.

I could not test in-Game to see if they worked.
:nope:

[TheDarkWraith]

The Mines and Nets don't work because they are not programed into the
Class Type Library it seems.

Type 500 and 501 don't work.
Re-class them and they can be placed with the Mission editor.

I could not test in-Game to see if they worked.
:nope:

re-class as environmental or ship or ??

[Madox58]

I did a ship just to test if the Mission Editor would accept them.
I also Classed a ship as a 500 and Mission Editor crashed.
You also need to move the files to correct folders for Class.

[Vorkapitan]

DID We have an AI? :har:

Great mod...we needed this for a very long time.

Thanks DW! :salute::salute::salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.9 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[SteelViking]

v0.0.9 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

TDW you are all over the place:rock:

Any word on the mines?

[PL_Andrev]

v0.0.9 - in Bombs.sim all the entries depth precision were cut in half from 5 to 2.5 (they are more precise now)
- in DC_barrels.sim the DCs depth precision were cut in half from 5 to 2.5 (they are more precise now)
- adjusted values in sim.cfg
- adjusted DC parameters for DCs used in KGun, YGun, DC racks, and air depth charge

Lol...
With this changes the Black May will be real "black"... already at the medium difficulty level.
:up:

[Captain Joe]

Please Help TDW, I love your work and others too but have a problem, I have tried all combinations of mods including non except newUIs ver 3.5.0 and irai any versions, Have not got to testing ship AI yet but plane AI work well the first time I come to them they shoot me to bits but if I dive and loose them and then resurface then no planes see me from then on. even when flying directly over me on a clear day. I have found Saving and resuming resets this and repeats itself, there has been a few times that it did work fine so problem is intermittent. also SOMETIMES if I dive planes still attack last known spot continuously. Im not sure if this is as much as they have been programed or where the problem could be, I have treid ALL I can think of. Please Help!!!

AND thank you and all the modders for making this game what it is.

[TheDarkWraith]

Please Help TDW, I love your work and others too but have a problem, I have tried all combinations of mods including non except newUIs ver 3.5.0 and irai any versions, Have not got to testing ship AI yet but plane AI work well the first time I come to them they shoot me to bits but if I dive and loose them and then resurface then no planes see me from then on. even when flying directly over me on a clear day. I have found Saving and resuming resets this and repeats itself, there has been a few times that it did work fine so problem is intermittent. also SOMETIMES if I dive planes still attack last known spot continuously. Im not sure if this is as much as they have been programed or where the problem could be, I have treid ALL I can think of. Please Help!!!

Of all the AI in the game the airplanes are the most limited (and thus crippled). They should be the most configurable as they were a deadly thing for a uboat to encounter.
There are very little in the way of functions to use to control the airplane AI and thus is why you see this intermittent behavior.
A plane will attack ONLY if it has bombs and/or torpedoes. I had to make it this way in order for the airplane AI to seem partially alive. If you are detected and they attack you, they will continue to attack as long as they have bombs and/or torpedoes. Once they have no more bombs and torpedoes they start following waypoints again (Had to make it this way for them to leave the area and not constantly attack a ghost spot if you submerged). Now they CAN get stuck in an endless loop of attacking the same spot IF they fail to fire all bombs/torpedoes before you submerge. There's no way to fix that given the limited functions available to the airplane AI currently (I hope one day the devs give a patch with more attention to AI).
Since I've been playing with the AI and making everything smarter and more random, this has caused other anomolies to surface. The airplane AI now attacks you AND other units it spots. Ships and other airplanes now attack enemy airplanes they discover. It's quite possible that the airplanes you are reporting just flying over you attacked another unit before they spotted you and thus have no bombs or torpedoes (and thus are not allowed to attack). Like I said the airplane AI is the most severely limited and crippled AI in the game :nope:

[TheBeast]

Just had two Hurricane Type Aircraft strafing me. Neither of them had any bombs.

During this encounter, I noticed two things.
Even if I surfaced after my initial dive to evade, the aircraft continue strafing where they last spotted me before I evaded them. Granted, I did not stay surfaced very long because prior experience proved these Hurricane's can quickly shred your boat.
This is a Sound related issue. Engine Sounds are great. Bullets sounds impacting the water or other surfaces are great. The thing is, I never hear them firing the rounds.
Not sure if the missing Gun Sounds are just me... Can someone else please confirm the guns firing sounds are actually missing? I am looking at the DSD now just in case.
After checking many Aircraft DSD using Goblin. It appears none of the aircraft I checked have gun firing sounds. They have Engine Normal or Damaged Sounds.

[TheDarkWraith]

Just had two Hurricane Type Aircraft strafing me. Neither of them had any bombs.

that means they had the invisible 'dummy bombs' and/or invisible 'dummy torpedo'. These were added to the airplanes .cfg files in order to make them attack you. Although you can't see them and they will do no harm to you, they still have to fire them in order to leave the area and resume following waypoints.

[PL_Andrev]

that means they had the invisible 'dummy bombs' and/or invisible 'dummy torpedo'. These were added to the airplanes .cfg files in order to make them attack you. Although you can't see them and they will do no harm to you, they still have to fire them in order to leave the area and resume following waypoints.

Hmm... maybe better way than "dummy" or "no ammo" is adding unlimited ammo to aircrafts? If I think correctly in this case the player will be attacked again and again...

[Zedi]

Hmm... maybe better way than "dummy" or "no ammo" is adding unlimited ammo to aircrafts? If I think correctly in this case the player will be attacked again and again...

... and very annoyed. I am already. Just passing the dover channel is already annoying where every 10 min is a plane crossing the sky. I love to fight back or dodge planes, but not every 10 minutes :/ Is like sailing in the middle of an airfield.

[SteelViking]

... and very annoyed. I am already. Just passing the dover channel is already annoying where every 10 min is a plane crossing the sky. I love to fight back or dodge planes, but not every 10 minutes :/ Is like sailing in the middle of an airfield.

I think that the spawn rate of planes is alterable. Didn't Wamphyri change the rate at which planes spawned.

@TDW, you may want to take a look at that. Also, could planes spawning at night be corrected?

[longam]

I remember that from back in SH4 days. ParaB's 'Air Strike Tweak' sovled the never ending mosquitoes buzzing over head.

http://www.longam.net/downbelow/sh4.htm

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109586&highlight=[REL]

[TheDarkWraith]

I think that the spawn rate of planes is alterable. Didn't Wamphyri change the rate at which planes spawned.

@TDW, you may want to take a look at that. Also, could planes spawning at night be corrected?

made adjustments to the airstrike.cfg file. I'll be releasing v0.0.10 here soon with the changes :DL

[SteelViking]

made adjustments to the airstrike.cfg file. I'll be releasing v0.0.10 here soon with the changes :DL

You sir, are the man:rock:

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.10 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[SteelViking]

Hey TDW, your second post says that the CTD upon torpedoing a carrier still exists, however, I thought that you had fixed that.

[TheDarkWraith]

Hey TDW, your second post says that the CTD upon torpedoing a carrier still exists, however, I thought that you had fixed that.

yep that's fixed. I'll update that second post now :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

now that the airplanes and ships AI is functional it's time to focus on the sub AI :D

[lostsm]

hello,

this really sounds awesome, but maybe too hard for me at the moment.

did i read correctly that there is a 60 minute set search? isn't there a method to make that more random?

settime = rand()+basetime or random() ... something like that?

just thought i'd thrown this out there; first thing that came to mind when i read the 60 minute set time was ways to beat it, and knowing exactly how long helps in figuring out

[SteelViking]

now that the airplanes and ships AI is functional it's time to focus on the sub AI :D

Enemy submarines could really be made into something to be feared if the dev's made enough resources available for them. Right now, they are basically floating bricks:haha:. Good luck with them, and thank you for the immense amount of work you do. You are truly an inspiration.:yep:

yep that's fixed. I'll update that second post now :up:

Ah, sehr gute.

[TheDarkWraith]

hello,

this really sounds awesome, but maybe too hard for me at the moment.

did i read correctly that there is a 60 minute set search? isn't there a method to make that more random?

settime = rand()+basetime or random() ... something like that?

just thought i'd thrown this out there; first thing that came to mind when i read the 60 minute set time was ways to beat it, and knowing exactly how long helps in figuring out

escorts in convoys have a set time that they will try and seek you out or keep searching for you after they have lost contact. They have set times because their job is to get you away from the convoy or to give the convoy time to maneuver out of harms way. Hunter-Killer groups are random:

# Hunter-Killer group spiral search time upon lost contact
HK_SPIRAL_MIN_SEARCH_TIME = 180.0; # used as min value of a Random function
HK_SPIRAL_MAX_SEARCH_TIME = 420.0; # used as max value of a Random function
# Hunter-Killer group wait time inbetween spiral searches
HK_WAIT_TIME = 4.0; # used as max value of a Random function

also each ship of a Hunter-Killer group upon doing it's spiral search for a lost contact will then wait for a random amount of time (at all stop) and then choose a new random heading and random distance from it's last position to do it's next spiral search. Hunter-Killer groups are nasty :D

[BowfinSS287]

this is great work....i had a 5 hour long depth charge attack
90 + dc were dropped all around and some too close for comfort
i had to play possum for 1 hour....then at 1 knot....i slipped away

the only thing funny i noticed was a DD going backwards??
maybe has something to do with random heading after pause
maybe if it gets a random heading behind the ship,the DD takes
the shortest route to that heading...can new heading be set to
an arc in front of the DD....120 to each side?

i don't know if this is the problem that causes DD to travel backward
it's just i guess on my part....thanks for all your great mods

[Trevally.]

Hi TDW, thanks for the mods you create :yeah:.

I have noticed the same DD behaviour as Bowfin.

I attacked a convoy (mid1942 IRAI v0.9 (my attacks are from further out with each upgrade to this mod:up:) ), dived deep to avoid searching DDs. After some very close calls with DC the escorts reformed with the convoy and moved off. I surfaced to periscope depth and spotted what I thought was a DD "camping out". After a few mins watching, I notice that it is in fact going backwards in a wide arc away from the rest of the convoy.

[sergei]

I'm not 100% sure this is the Mods fault.

I seem to remember in one of my stock games seeing a DD do this after losing track of me.

[TheDarkWraith]

the only thing funny i noticed was a DD going backwards??
maybe has something to do with random heading after pause
maybe if it gets a random heading behind the ship,the DD takes
the shortest route to that heading...can new heading be set to
an arc in front of the DD....120 to each side?

I surfaced to periscope depth and spotted what I thought was a DD "camping out". After a few mins watching, I notice that it is in fact going backwards in a wide arc away from the rest of the convoy.

I'm not 100% sure this is the Mods fault.

I seem to remember in one of my stock games seeing a DD do this after losing track of me.

If I were to set an arc that the escort only could take that would defeat the whole randomness of the mod. The escorts under script 'control' are always given throttle orders of forwards not backwards so this sounds like a stock game bug. Nowhere in my scripts do I ever issue backwards bells for any ship.

EDIT:

how are the airstrikes now with v0.0.10? Have they decreased in number? How about night attacks by aircraft? Have they decreased in number?

[BowfinSS287]

i do think it may be a stock bug,but can the new heading have 3 inputs
is this the command line ?

newheading = ship : random (0, 360);

could it be changed to :

newheading = ship : random (0, 160, 200);

this might stop the DD from picking a course directly behind it
if you can use 3 inputs....what do you think?

[TheDarkWraith]

i do think it may be a stock bug,but can the new heading have 3 inputs
is this the command line ?

newheading = ship : random (0, 360);

could it be changed to :

newheading = ship : random (0, 160, 200);

this might stop the DD from picking a course directly behind it
if you can use 3 inputs....what do you think?

Random function has only two inputs: min and max and it returns a real number between those two values.

I looked over my code for the AI searches. Here's how the AI picks a new location to search in:

Ship:WaitAction(waittime);

newheading = Ship:Random(0, 360);
Ship:TurnToHeading(newheading, 1.0);
rundist = Ship:Random(HK_MIN_NEXT_SPIRAL_DISTANCE, HK_MAX_NEXT_SPIRAL_DISTANCE);

it searched a place and now waits a random time (at all stop) then it chooses a new random heading, turns to that new heading at full throttle, then chooses a new random distance from it's curent spot to go to and search again.

Now maybe when it turns to it's new heading the game allows it to go backwards :06: I'll update the code to force it to go forwards a small distance before executing the turn to the new heading. I'll release a new version here shortly with this change.

[BowfinSS287]

thanks for taking the time to review this stock problem

i hope your new version fixes this, good luck

i haven't seen any planes lately , but i have been more
careful lately.....i got shot up real bad on my last patrol
i'll keep looking for those aircraft....report later

[W_clear]

Hi @TDW
I've tested new AI MOD.Destroyer is not an accurate search for submarines,Therefore, it is still blind launch DC.

Thanks:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi @TDW
I've tested new AI MOD.Destroyer is not an accurate search for submarines,Therefore, it is still blind launch DC.

Thanks:salute:

after your comment above I decided to do some testing....and the results of that testing was that I found a bug in my ship AI script. It's not a bug as in typo or anything - it's a timing bug. Here's the problem:

you are detected by a ship. If the ship is outside the range of the full throttle range then it goes to full throttle heading to your last known position. Once inside the full throttle range it drops back to the DC setup speed and if you are still detected it starts maneuvering to your position. Once it's in the DC setup distance range it goes to DC run speed. It stays at DC run speed (dropping depth charges) until it goes DC run distance. Now here is where the bug rears it's ugly head. Once it's at DC run speed and passes over you it's lost contact with you. The bug is then it immediately switches to a spiral search pattern. Not what I intended the AI to do! So I had to add a timer to give the ship time to complete it's DC run and turn around. When that timer expires if the ship hasn't redetected you then it goes into a spiral search pattern.

The consequences of fixing this bug are the AI is even more deadly now with their DC attacks. Sorry :D fix will be in v0.0.11 which I'll have available soon.

[TheBeast]

The consequences of fixing this bug are the AI is even more deadly now with their DC attacks. Sorry :D fix will be in v0.0.11 which I'll have available soon.
This new evolution in the AI sounds like fun and U-Boat skippers better be vary carefull when using this MOD.:doh::dead::|\\:rock:

[Will-Rommel]

Great ! :woot:

[rascal101]

This mod is fantrastic - the game has suddenly becoe a challenge - now instead of sinking the entire British Merchant marine every time I leave port I am lucky if I bag one or two Tommies

OUTSTANDING - except I wonder if your mod AI is slightly too refined

Was attacking a convoy, I was ahead and to their prot side, 90 degrees on- perfedct - single destroyer passes at about 1.5km's - I'm on silent running - I let him pass and wait for the merchants - I start my attack - fire off two torps at one ship and two more at another - but the escort is already after me even before I've hit aything - nothing has happend to indicate that I am there except my scope -

Does your mod allow escorts to detect scopes if they are above the water line for too long - this is ok in clear weather, but I also experienced the same when attacking in heavy fog - surely its slightly too sensitive

Best mod and thanks - would appreciate some comment on the above

Regards
Rascal

[TheBeast]

This mod is fantrastic - the game has suddenly becoe a challenge - now instead of sinking the entire British Merchant marine every time I leave port I am lucky if I bag one or two Tommies

OUTSTANDING - except I wonder if your mod AI is slightly too refined

Was attacking a convoy, I was ahead and to their prot side, 90 degrees on- perfedct - single destroyer passes at about 1.5km's - I'm on silent running - I let him pass and wait for the merchants - I start my attack - fire off two torps at one ship and two more at another - but the escort is already after me even before I've hit aything - nothing has happend to indicate that I am there except my scope -

Does your mod allow escorts to detect scopes if they are above the water line for too long - this is ok in clear weather, but I also experienced the same when attacking in heavy fog - surely its slightly too sensitive

Best mod and thanks - would appreciate some comment on the above

Regards
Rascal
The escort may have heard your Torpedo Doors Opening/Closing or the escort may have heard the Torpedo it the water.
Either way, I do agree that visual detection is a little to strong and environmental conditions and or day/night seems to have little effect on the enemies ability to detect you.

[TheDarkWraith]

Was attacking a convoy, I was ahead and to their prot side, 90 degrees on- perfedct - single destroyer passes at about 1.5km's - I'm on silent running - I let him pass and wait for the merchants - I start my attack - fire off two torps at one ship and two more at another - but the escort is already after me even before I've hit aything - nothing has happend to indicate that I am there except my scope -

Does your mod allow escorts to detect scopes if they are above the water line for too long - this is ok in clear weather, but I also experienced the same when attacking in heavy fog - surely its slightly too sensitive

the escorts use all available sensors. So yes they can detect scopes poking out of the water. What probably happened is they heard the torpedoes on their hydrophones and sent a scout to investigate. How many escorts were sent to investigate you?

[Zedi]

They see the topedo wake if is steam powered. And at night, this wake is more visible than daylight. And the merchants.. gotta love them now. I'm addicted to charge the unarmerd/escorted convoys at surface by night, such a tense battle.. they really do their best to ram you or do anything just to stay alive, so now the game is a pure joy.

Wonder why TDW got no emblems, medals nor "the moder of the year" title so far :hmmm: At least for this mod which is completely change the gameplay of SH5. The management don't play SH5 or use mods?

An the jokers from Ubi.. they should pay the man and deliver this mod as a patch. This is not a mod anymore, it's a gamefix/patch.

[TheDarkWraith]

They see the topedo wake if is steam powered. And at night, this wake is more visible than daylight. And the merchants.. gotta love them now. I'm addicted to charge the unarmerd/escorted convoys at surface by night, such a tense battle.. they really do their best to ram you or do anything just to stay alive, so now the game is a pure joy.

and you haven't even seen what the AI subs will do yet.....;)

[TheBeast]

I still have not seen a Torpedo Bomber sneaking in just above the waves. Have you put that in yet?:06:

[TheDarkWraith]

I still have not seen a Torpedo Bomber sneaking in just above the waves. Have you put that in yet?:06:

they've been in since the start. It's rare you see them in the early years....I saw one and haven't seen another since.

[TheBeast]

I should reword what I said. I have seen the Torpedo Bomber out patroling. Once there was four in a very tight trailing stack formation. I just haven't seen any sneaking in on a torpedo run as yet.

Now, with what you said about Sub AI, I am getting a paranoid complex about running on the surface. Specially running on the surface at high speed any time, day or night.:timeout::haha:

"Is it really worth the risk to run surfaced at high speed, traveling that 200+Km distance to intercept that contact report or not?":hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

the sub AI isn't done yet. It should be available in v0.0.12.

Now more changes coming in v0.0.11: the ships now have a delay before they spot a torpedo and they can take action. Here's the formula that determines it:

basetime = Ship:Random(0.5, 2.0);
randtime = basetime - (basetime * ((Ship:GetCrewRating() + 1) / 10.0));

so we have a base time of anywhere from half a minute to 2 minutes. Crew ratings are defined as:

CREW_POOR = 0;
CREW_NOVICE = 1;
CREW_COMPETENT = 2;
CREW_VETERAN = 3;
CREW_ELITE = 4;

so an elite crews worst case scenario for responding to a torpedo sighted is: 2.0 - (2.0 * (4 + 1) / 10.0)) or 2.0 - 1.0 = 1 minute. It's best case scenario is: 0.5 - (0.5 * (4 + 1) / 10.0)) or 0.5 - 0.25 = 0.25 minutes or 15 seconds

should be releasing v0.0.11 here very soon.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.11 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

I'm curious to know if there are ships still searching or patrolling backwards :yep:

[PL_Andrev]

1. I remember one situation from SH4 when convoy (or single ship) spotted/detected my uboat and after that is zig-zaging at mathematical precision (this same zigzag angle, this same distance and time between zigzags).

Is possible to add random time between single zigzags and different zigzaging angle to harder difficulty of escaping ship/convoy?


2. What about detection mechanism by active sonar in depth?
In one of SH3 mod (Uboat Total War) was implemented this solution as on screeenshot.
What about SH5? Active sonar works correctly on both sides of SH5's escort but what about working in depth?
Unfortunatelly I dont know how he implemented that...
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7100/dzialaniemodanasonarjg7.jpg

[Zedi]

1. I remember one situation from SH4 when convoy (or single ship) spotted/detected my uboat and after that is zig-zaging at mathematical precision (this same zigzag angle, this same distance and time between zigzags).

Is possible to add random time between single zigzags and different zigzaging angle to harder difficulty of escaping ship/convoy?


I posted a report few post ago, they are going mad and break any rule we knew so far. Some merchie go slow, some go fast and more of that.. some desperately try to ram you. Never saw such an active AI in SH so far.

I restarted the campaign with 100% realism and this time with this mod installed, it's a complete different game. As I said earlier, give this man an emblem or 'moder of the year' title, he truly deserve it.

[Rickster1]

I agree, great modder makes this game so much better and playable, well done keep up the great work and thanks.

[TheDarkWraith]

1. I remember one situation from SH4 when convoy (or single ship) spotted/detected my uboat and after that is zig-zaging at mathematical precision (this same zigzag angle, this same distance and time between zigzags).

Is possible to add random time between single zigzags and different zigzaging angle to harder difficulty of escaping ship/convoy?

2. What about detection mechanism by active sonar in depth?
In one of SH3 mod (Uboat Total War) was implemented this solution as on screeenshot.
What about SH5? Active sonar works correctly on both sides of SH5's escort but what about working in depth?

1. It's currently not possible to add random time between single zigzags and/or making the zigzagging angle different given what the devs gave us. It would be possible to do it via scripting but it wouldn't be feasible or easy to implement.

2. From the files it appears that the sonar cone is modeled in the game:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=2565

though I'm not sure of the accuracy of the parameters. We need to verify the parameters of all the AI sensors :yep:

[oscar19681]

with this mod can i unable wrampy,s plane mod? Also do i need to restart the campaign to have the planes attack me like was the case with wrampy,s plane mod?

[TheDarkWraith]

with this mod can i unable wrampy,s plane mod? Also do i need to restart the campaign to have the planes attack me like was the case with wrampy,s plane mod?

There are some things that Wamphyri's plane mod does that I don't implement so it's personal choice. If you want to keep those things from his mod then install IRAI after his plane mod.
You shouldn't need to restart the campaign as the core AI files are changed that the game relies on.

[rascal101]

Is there any chance someone could make a mod so, like in SH3, your sound guy announces when new depth charges hit the water - this would make playing on max realism more interesting, especially if you play without external view

And is there any way to stop the idiot shouting task force in sight when you are in the middle of a convoy

[Capt Jack Harkness]

1. It's currently not possible to add random time between single zigzags and/or making the zigzagging angle different given what the devs gave us. It would be possible to do it via scripting but it wouldn't be feasible or easy to implement.

2. From the files it appears that the sonar cone is modeled in the game:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=2565

though I'm not sure of the accuracy of the parameters. We need to verify the parameters of all the AI sensors :yep:

Is it possible to make the detection cone visible? That would make things a lot easier...

[SteelViking]

Hey TDW, I just took a look at wikipedia(don't worry I checked the reference, and it is legit) and I found that the standard dc barrels(mark VII) could split the pressure hull at 6.1 meters, and were still capable of doing damage at 12.2 meters. Now, I know that you increased the depth precision, but changing the min and max radius of the dc barrels in the .sim for them could essentially be used instead. I have not tested this, and it seems to me that these values would equal instant death upon being dc'ed. I just figured I would bring it to your attention.

[rascal101]

Do you think you could do anything to tweak the Aircraft AI - or have you already done so - at the moment I keep getting buzzed by aircraft but they never attack - which surely isnt right - ok some will be spotters but some shold be attacking - or does this become more of a hazard later in the war - I'm playing Oct 1939 at the moment

Also

I have a problem with the game CTD or just freezing - there is no apparent reason or influence - sometimes it occurs close to land and some times it doesnt - I have listed my mods below - I used to think it was the new Enviro mod, but now not so sure - I wonder if its to do with the scale of the map view plus the speed you have set the game - it never crashes in 3d view, only map view and usually when I have time compression over 2024

Any ideas - here's my list of mods - clashes are highlighted in RED

A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
AilBubbles 1.0
BRF 1.3 full
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Goodbye Pac-Man v1.01
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.0
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Haramirs Escorts Self Awareness Mod 1.1
Environment 3.0 MOD
MoraleMod
Old Style Explosions V1.1
R7 HiRes SteelVikings Optics
Shadow Improvement Mod
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
The Elite Campaign 1.1
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
Killer AI V1.02
Reboot's Water Drips 1.1
MRP 1.3+OPCF
Dooms Decks for VIIC 1.2
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
EngineSoundsImproved_v1.0
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
IRAI_0_0_11_ByTheDarkWraith

[Stormfly]

same problem here, Mediterranian 1941, different kinds of planes, but no one will react or attack, they seam friendly :timeout:

[SteelViking]

Well, for the first time in about 2 months, I decided to actually play SH5 instead of working on it. So I loaded up all my favorite mods, and a few new ones and headed out on a new campaign. A few hours later, I had not actually found any convoys, but I picked up what seemed like a hunter killer group. I decided to go ahead and attack it just to see how the AI is now that you have worked on it. So, here is my experience:

It was a group of 6 DDs, it was nearing dusk so I sneaked up pretty close to them(had no problems with overly sensitive visual detection), and went to periscope depth. Got a good solution on the closer middle DD and fired a spread of 3 T1s just to make sure I got a hit since I figured they might dodge them. Hit and got a confirmed kill and started diving. They immediately headed my direction, which I would expect since they would have seen the torp trail. I then spent, I don't know how long, trying every evasive maneuver I could, going all the way down to 200m in my VIIa but I was not able to shake them at all. They stayed directly on top of me, however, I barely ever heard a sonar ping(I mean maybe 4 pings the whole time:06:) I lost count of how many dcs exploded, but I never took one bit of damage.

So, I am kind of confused. Why so little sonar use? I was on silent running, so they would have had to use sonar to know where I was, but they were acting like they could just hear me. Also, I really think the blast radius of the dcs needs to be increased. I might try setting them to the figures I posted yesterday, and trying it out.

Don't get me wrong, they are obviously way smarter than stock, which I am very happy about. But, it seems that they are omniscient when it comes to keeping in contact with you(perhaps the thermal layer could be increased).

[Stormfly]

say you just started the campaign, so it was 1939 or ? ...i would expect a very good chance to evade them and sneak away.

[TheDarkWraith]

also the sonar beam is an arc horizontally and vertically so if the escorts were close to you and you were at >=200m depth then you were out of the sonar beam and thus no pinging.

[The General]

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8325/asdicpatternsb.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/asdicpatternsb.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[SteelViking]

say you just started the campaign, so it was 1939 or ? ...i would expect a very good chance to evade them and sneak away.

That's what I thought should have happened, but nope they stayed glued to me.

also the sonar beam is an arc horizontally and vertically so if the escorts were close to you and you were at >=200m depth then you were out of the sonar beam and thus no pinging.

Right, so how in the world did they know exactly where I was. I was on silent running, on ahead slow, and 200m down, how could they have heard me. Did you turn up the sensitivity of their hydrophones?

[TheDarkWraith]

so how in the world did they know exactly where I was. I was on silent running, on ahead slow, and 200m down, how could they have heard me. Did you turn up the sensitivity of their hydrophones?

yes, their hydrophones are sensitive. Did you have the graphic displayed on the TAI showing their current hydrophone range? Was it overlayed on your current position?
I haven't disabled the thermal layer but maybe it needs to be tweaked?
Remember the mod is still a WIP so their is more tweaking to do if necessary :yep:

[SteelViking]

yes, their hydrophones are sensitive. Did you have the graphic displayed on the TAI showing their current hydrophone range? Was it overlayed on your current position?
I haven't disabled the thermal layer but maybe it needs to be tweaked?
Remember the mod is still a WIP so their is more tweaking to do if necessary :yep:

Oh, I don't blame you or anything, I know it is still WIP. The reason I posted this experience was to help you nail down the details.

Yes, at one point I did check the TAI(I hate that thing but sometimes I cheat and look). I was covered by the pacmans, but I was sure that I must still be able to evade detection that early in the war. If I would have shut my engines down, I would have gone too deep(7a and its stinking depth keeping problems). Yeah, I think adjusting the thermal layer to have a heavier effect could do the trick.

[TheDarkWraith]

there is another problem with the campaign in SH5 that's compounding the problem SteelViking encountered - in the early years there are many Veteran units. I would think that these would be more like competent units. This mod relies on the unit's crew rating for many of it's determinations.

[Vanilla]

I doubt that even a Veteran or Elite destroyer would hear a sub running silent (15 rpm of E-machine, that is the propeller rotates only once every four seconds) and below 200m through their passive hydrophones. Particularly if we consider noise of the destroyer itself, turbulence they've created speeding around, recent DC blasts bubbles waves and ripples on the surface etc. I guess even modern destroyer, would have difficulties keeping contact.
And since the sub would be impossible to hear they have to ping to keep the contact - where SteelViking reported they didn't, that is unrealistic.

My recent experience with HK group: 1939, on clear sunny day at about 1400 a TF was reported by the lookouts. I ordered ahead flank and steered a intercept course as I could only see smokes and thought at first that it could be a BB or CA. After 15 minutes I got much closer and identified the TF as 4 DDs in a box pattern. While I was hesitating whether to attack, the closest DD steered my way and increased speed - his range ~5km, AOB ~70stb, seen on ~10 o'clock position, my speed - flank, wind ~3-4m/s, sun, scattered clouds. Crash dive to 100m, 90 degree turn to port, then silent running. DD run over my position dropping 2 DCs (no pings at all), exploded about 50-100m away and much shallower as observed through Obs (i know it is cheating). Immediately after explosions I made ahead flank burst for 15 seconds and turned 45 stb. Destroyer slowed down and sitted for a minute or so listening (?) Then speeded up to DC charge turned roughly in my direction but failed to run over me, dropped 1 DC ~100m away to port. Sonar reports 2nd DD got close (I play with externals off), it started to search far away from me and failed to find me at all. In the mean time I sinked to 135m. The first DD made two more runs each further away from me. Then lost me completely, I ordered 2 knots ahead and steered away from him, after 15 minutes ordered 3 knots. Judging by the sound DD searches a bit more and then steam away to rejoin TF.
It all seemed very realistic to me except that they definitely did not try to ping me as much as I expected in approx. 1 hour this thing took place I heard only 2-3 random pings. While in reality you would expect them to ping continuosly until ceasing search, why should DD not ping if he knows for sure that you already hear him? Even if he pings everytime in completely random direction and depth, the statistics chances of catching you in the beam get higher with every single ping. So he would ping, I recon, continuosly as soon as he discovers you (remember 2.5km range of that 'searchlight' beam?) and not ceasing until he leaves "search" mode, only switching to ranging gate when making his DC run.

[TheDarkWraith]

I doubt that even a Veteran or Elite destroyer would hear a sub running silent (15 rpm of E-machine, that is the propeller rotates only once every four seconds) and below 200m through their passive hydrophones. Particularly if we consider noise of the destroyer itself, turbulence they've created speeding around, recent DC blasts bubbles waves and ripples on the surface etc. I guess even modern destroyer, would have difficulties keeping contact.
And since the sub would be impossible to hear they have to ping to keep the contact - where SteelViking reported they didn't, that is unrealistic.

My recent experience with HK group: 1939, on clear sunny day at about 1400 a TF was reported by the lookouts. I ordered ahead flank and steered a intercept course as I could only see smokes and thought at first that it could be a BB or CA. After 15 minutes I got much closer and identified the TF as 4 DDs in a box pattern. While I was hesitating whether to attack, the closest DD steered my way and increased speed - his range ~5km, AOB ~70stb, seen on ~10 o'clock position, my speed - flank, wind ~3-4m/s, sun, scattered clouds. Crash dive to 100m, 90 degree turn to port, then silent running. DD run over my position dropping 2 DCs (no pings at all), exploded about 50-100m away and much shallower as observed through Obs (i know it is cheating). Immediately after explosions I made ahead flank burst for 15 seconds and turned 45 stb. Destroyer slowed down and sitted for a minute or so listening (?) Then speeded up to DC charge turned roughly in my direction but failed to run over me, dropped 1 DC ~100m away to port. Sonar reports 2nd DD got close (I play with externals off), it started to search far away from me and failed to find me at all. In the mean time I sinked to 135m. The first DD made two more runs each further away from me. Then lost me completely, I ordered 2 knots ahead and steered away from him, after 15 minutes ordered 3 knots. Judging by the sound DD searches a bit more and then steam away to rejoin TF.
It all seemed very realistic to me except that they definitely did not try to ping me as much as I expected in approx. 1 hour this thing took place I heard only 2-3 random pings. While in reality you would expect them to ping continuosly until ceasing search, why should DD not ping if he knows for sure that you already hear him? Even if he pings everytime in completely random direction and depth, the statistics chances of catching you in the beam get higher with every single ping. So he would ping, I recon, continuosly as soon as he discovers you (remember 2.5km range of that 'searchlight' beam?) and not ceasing until he leaves "search" mode, only switching to ranging gate when making his DC run.

I can make them ping like mad if that's what you want.....it's a WIP so more tweaking is needed. I'll play with the sonar and release another version.

[Vanilla]

I can make them ping like mad if that's what you want.....it's a WIP so more tweaking is needed. I'll play with the sonar and release another version.

I guess that would be more realistic.
The only thing that puzzles me is if they should not be pinging while listening passively, I guess they could deafen their own sonarmen this way. In all other situations they should be pinging continuosly. That is - if he knows that you are around, he tries to listen, if he picks you up - then he should be immediately switching to active sonar to get exact bearing and range and not switching it off unless he loses track. If he can't get contact with you passively, he should try to ping in a search pattern across last known position, making breaks to listen passively from time to time. And I recon when DD first get to you he should start pinging from far away at max active sonar range as he sure cannot hear a thing while moving that fast and active pinging is the only way to make contact with you.

[SteelViking]

Huh, I wonder why our experiences were so different. What you just explained does seem spot on realism wise.:hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

Huh, I wonder why our experiences were so different. What you just explained does seem spot on realism wise.:hmmm:

the beauty of Randomness.....I have lots of it coded into the ship's AI :D

[SteelViking]

the beauty of Randomness.....I have lots of it coded into the ship's AI :D

:haha: That's random alright. But getting 6DDs stuck to you and nothing lets you shake em.......They could have at least had the courtesy of killing me with dcs but nope, they would rather me suffocate.

[dogshu]

I'm unable to download this from filefront, it gives me a 404.

[SteelViking]

I'm unable to download this from filefront, it gives me a 404.

Filefront has been on the fritz the last day or so.

[Stormfly]

any news about fixing non agressive planes ?

[THE_MASK]

Working a treat . I was at periscope depth at all stop and silent running . I had a task force running from approx 300deg across the bow about 2000mts away . Everything was going normal when all of a sudden one of them breaks off and starts heading straight for me . WTH , ok so i stayed at 1 knot but slowly sank to 80 mts . Benno told me that he went over us without detecting anything and then headed back to the group and continued on away from us . Terrific fun .

[Krauter]

Is this Mod compatible with ddrgns Elite Campaign Mod and his Feared Hunters Mod and Nisgeis' Killer Uboat AI Mods??

[TheDarkWraith]

Is this Mod compatible with ddrgns Elite Campaign Mod and his Feared Hunters Mod and Nisgeis' Killer Uboat AI Mods??

if they modify any of the ship .aix files, the airplane .aix file, or the init.aix file then no.

[Krauter]

Thanks for the quick replies :)

Just gotta wait for filefront to stop being dumb :)

[Zedi]

TDW, when you will ask permission to upload ur mods on subsim? You are not just a 1 day moder, your mods are the most wanted stuff here ... so maybe is time to up them on subsim and give all who wanna use ur mods a valid chance to download it without any trouble. Just my 2 cent....

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, when you will ask permission to upload ur mods on subsim? You are not just a 1 day moder, your mods are the most wanted stuff here ... so maybe is time to up them on subsim and give all who wanna use ur mods a valid chance to download it without any trouble. Just my 2 cent....

I already upload to Subsim. My UIs mod is posted on subsim but currently that's the only one. I should upload the exhaust and flags mod also. I'll do that today. IRAI though is still a WIP.