[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[laribe]

Robin and Will that is what I was trying to explain earlier to DW, the tactics are good but the DCing is not so good.

Hope DW has a nice trip

[PL_Andrev]

- HK Director distance from contact adjusted to 750m


What it is the HK?

[PL_Cmd_Jacek]

There is a 'knee' in the curve of where the AI sensors don't increase effectiveness anymore. I set the knee so that at very slow speeds of your sub you would be able to have some chance of escaping from the escorts. If I set the knee higher then you would be able to use higher bell speeds and your chances of being detected would be slim. Now that's not realistic. So the way I set it was the best compromise that I found during the development of the mod.

Could you tell me, what settings should I modified for testing ? I would like to make some tests. :ping:

[laribe]

This is the Hunter killer group which does hunt very well but does not seem to drop many DCs. Not the close escort which will stay with Convoy or BG.

[PL_Cmd_Jacek]

I ve just found the falue of "noise factor" in "Hydrophone" section of sim.cfg file. I change it into stock value and result are quite good. The range of the sensor change accordingly to speed value.

Still have the problem, why DDs have passive sonar circle active when I am surfaced. In stock game there is no such situation. Moreover even I am on surface, the DDs could hear me :hmmm:, so I can not attack at night at all. So which value is responsible for that ????

[Zedi]

I'm very sad to say that I had to disable IRAI, is not working good now.

Story: got in sight a very large convoy and after the first torpedoes ALL escorts left the convoy and started to camp me. For 2 days about 8 or more DD's were on top of me and in the meanwhile the rest of the convoy stopped to wait the escort to finish.. whatever they had to do. In the middle of Atlantic.

In reality, a commander who would give such an order would face the martial court. Leaving a huge convoy unprotected and delay with at least 2 day the arrival of very vital cargo at the destination .. just because they hunt a single sub in the middle of Atlantic... is beyond any imagination. The tactis now in IRAI are very wrong. Not to mention that there is no way to escape. Even under 200m and with all engines at stop, they still had a very clear picture about my location. Soon as I moved few meters, they moved too... is like they are somehow linked to my sub.

So after 2 day of playing cat &mouse I disabled IRAI and continued with the stock settings. I loaded a save from right before I started the attack on convoy and I had a relief to see the right tactic from the escorts this time. Soon as they detected me, 2 DD left the convoy and headed to my location. The rest of the convoy followed they route without breaking the formation. After I sunk 2 merchants, 1 more DD joined the hunt. But all was over 30 minutes later after they lost any contact with me. They just simply returned to the convoy and their main role, protection.

The stock tactics are correct and the escorts do the job right. The only problem with them is that they loose all contact with the sub if I go deeper that 80m. Under 80m I can sail at max speed, they all go deaf and blind. Also, the escorts are unable to drop DC's deeper that 50m and even than.. the damage is very low. So these things should be fixed, the tactic used in stock is right. They will keep the sub underwater and away from the convoy, but they will never halt a whole convoy for this, or worse.. leave it unprotected. Is a whole different story on a task force where all ships are HK's and they only purpose is to own the sub/enemy.

[laribe]

I am only trying the .25 on historic missions and have not tried campaign yet. I suppose this must be the Bug kicking in.

On the other hand the thing I noticed was that after a good DC run and I sustained damage and repairs started the DDs maintained contact still making attack runs but not DCing?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I found an interesting comment about IRAI when browsing a Russian forum:
http://sukhoi.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=1460125&postcount=1131

Translation follows (as strict as I can):

- Before [installing IRAI], upon coming to combat area all friendly units used to be sunk at once and I used to be left alone against an armada of ships of war.

- Now, besides other mods, I also use IRAI_0_0_23_ByTheDarkWraith. And now, when approaching combat area (a few km sail), I'm lucky to sink at least one target! Before I manage to aim and take a few shots, mission ends with victory. This didn't happen just once... The mod obviously adds intelligence to units, but it seems that allies [German] get more of it!!!

[Robin40]

Robin and Will that is what I was trying to explain earlier to DW, the tactics are good but the DCing is not so good.

Hope DW has a nice trip

well...I met a different situation recently with this mod

I sank BC Renown with a 3 torp salvo

A horde of nine DD's came over me

I was at 100 mts silent running

Well after a hunt of 6 hours I managed to escape with this mod:DL

A mix of

- dive at 140 mts

- stop

- when DC's dropped speed at 1 knts, then stop and the sub goes for a while at 1 knt before stopping

DD's dropped DC's very frequently

[laribe]

The only other thing I can think of is something like an ammo count or crew quality for something that random, dont know where they are located:damn:

[Lemke]

Do you guys ever use decoys to evade the DDs?

[DedEye]

Blockade Germany:

I came across a Nelson TF escorted by 10 DDs. I attempted to penetrate the screen, failed, and proceeded to get depthcharged for the next hour. 36 according to the chalkboard, but I my have missed a few :03:

I did manage to get away running deep and silent. Took some minor damage. It was challenging :yeah: Looking forward to '43 :arrgh!:

I haven't experienced any weirdness yet myself. Will post if I do.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I just found out when fiddling with my mod list settings, that the way you nest you add-on-mods inside MODS folder inside the IRAI folder is not JSGME compatible - it breaks JSGME "Mod profiles" functionality.

Also it may be confusing to see three new mods appear on your list after installing one.

The idea was brilliant (chapeau bas!), but potentially destructive to JSGME users. :salute:

[7thSeal]

Do you guys ever use decoys to evade the DDs?

I do sometimes when caught in shallower waters, I've seen them pass right over the top of a decoy dropping DC's but when they circle back around they pick up on me again at times. Usually takes me 3-4 decoys along with continuous maneuvers to finally get away. Other times I don't make it if there's a bunch of them after me. :)

[Robin40]

well now

I sank now BC Hood

and escaped 10 DD's after a 3 hours chase

It looks somewhat easy to escape using the correct strategy

[janh]

It looks somewhat easy to escape using the correct strategy

At what time, i.e. state of british equipment and training?
1939? Or 1943? If you escape with comparable ease in 39, 40 or 41, this would sound quite reasonable.

[Robin40]

At what time, i.e. state of british equipment and training?
1939? Or 1943? If you escape with comparable ease in 39, 40 or 41, this would sound quite reasonable.

October 1940

[Zedi]

Problem is not with the escaping tactics, but with the tactics used by the AI. As I said, is completely unnatural and wrong how the convoy escorts are reacting now in IRAI. Leaving the convoy unescorted and even halt it for 2 days or more just to hunt a single sub is unacceptable.

In MP this would give a huge advantage for the players just because is enough that 1 player will distract the escorts then the others will just sink the whole convoy without any problem.

The stock AI tactic is oke, what it need to be fixed there is just the contact depth and the DC's. They loose the track of any sub under 80m and they cannot drop DC's under 50m. Even so, the DC's do almost no damage. That's the problem now with the stock AI, nothing else.

Ah.. and of course, for campaign is a must have the Elite Campaign mod installed. Just because the devs made the SH5 campaign retard friendly, so every ship in the campaign is set to novice and to use evasive manoeuvres, what makes them to not react at all to any threat .. just flee :nope:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

This is true. Crippled ships are left behind instead of leaving the rest as sitting ducks.

[TheDarkWraith]

This is true. Crippled ships are left behind instead of leaving the rest as sitting ducks.

Are you saying that the current version of IRAI doesn't leave them behind? The whole convoy slows down for the slowest unit? I can see this for the leader but it does this for ship's other than the leader?

Also Magnum was stating that all the escorts leave the convoy...ALL the escorts leave the convoy?? Some are assigned the role of guard convoy and should stay with the convoy UNLESS you are inside the convoy. That is the only time escorts assigned the role of guard convoy are allowed to 'break rank'.

I'm still really confused as to what some people are finding so wrong with the current version of IRAI :hmmm: Feedback in the form of starting the AI debugger and telling me what tactics are set, not set, etc. would really help me figure out if there is something wrong with the current version or not.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Are you saying that the current version of IRAI doesn't leave them behind? The whole convoy slows down for the slowest unit? I can see this for the leader but it does this for ship's other than the leader?No, I'm stating that this is what happened in WW2 (DDs leaving them) and refering to the way in the game the dds linger too long looking for you and leaving the convoy unprotected.

[Robin40]

No, I'm stating that this is what happened in WW2 (DDs leaving them) and refering to the way in the game the dds linger too long looking for you and leaving the convoy unprotected.

In my 2 last occasions when I sank BC Renown and Hood, 9 DD's went hunting me for 3 and 6 hours, then they left me behind

Convoy was escorted with 2 remaining DD's

[laribe]

I suppose the simple way to explain it is that some escorts stay with convoy, ie close escort. In suspected attack areas you would have the Hk group ie support group roaming if one or other got a contact, True or False they would attack.

If there was no HK group near the close escort would cover the convoy as it made an escape, Hopefully. If there was a HK group with the convoy they would attack and the rest would beat feet at best speed.

DCs were not really very effectve as they had to be very close to do damage so escorts tended to drop quite a few on suspected targets

To my mind in .25 the tactics seem right but the DDs drop DCs on the first run and none on the second run. If a DC explodes on the DD, which happens every time, the others seem to take time to recover and re-attack, they know you are there but do not seem to attack. As I have only tried Historic missions of late I cant say about campaign. I can get debug to run but what do I look for?

[TheDarkWraith]

I can get debug to run but what do I look for?

see here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1487681&postcount=733

[Zedi]

Are you saying that the current version of IRAI doesn't leave them behind? The whole convoy slows down for the slowest unit? I can see this for the leader but it does this for ship's other than the leader?

Also Magnum was stating that all the escorts leave the convoy...ALL the escorts leave the convoy?? Some are assigned the role of guard convoy and should stay with the convoy UNLESS you are inside the convoy. That is the only time escorts assigned the role of guard convoy are allowed to 'break rank'.

I'm still really confused as to what some people are finding so wrong with the current version of IRAI :hmmm: Feedback in the form of starting the AI debugger and telling me what tactics are set, not set, etc. would really help me figure out if there is something wrong with the current version or not.

I try to explain again. The escorts strategy is the main problem, they leave the convoy unprotected just to hunt a single sub for days. 2 bad that I forgot to make a screenie about these 8 escorts camping me for 2 days while the rest of the merchants were sitting 5km away and waiting for them to finish me off. This is just wrong :nope: 2 or 3 escort ship is just enough for a single sub, is no need for a whole fleet to keep a sub underwater. Also, their main role should be to keep the sub away from the convoy, not delay the convoy from their schedule. To bring the cargo at the destination should be the main priority, not hunting a solo sub in the middle of Atlantic while a whole nation is in major distress :nope:

An yes, all escorts left the convoy behind to hunt me down. True, one of them was just sitting silent a bit away from the rest of the escorts, seems like he was the commander. But the rest of the convoy were completely stooped about 5-8km further waiting for the escort group to come back in position. Not to mention that the escorts consumed their ammo in just few hours, still they were just passing over and over above me for days. Absolutely pointless strategy for an escort group. If this were made by a dedicated KH group, I would have no objection as this is their role, hunt the sub no matter what. But a large convoy with vital cargo for a whole nation in war stooping in the middle of Atlantic and hunt a single sub for 2 days.. it's just impossible to accept. I will put back IRAI on and if it happens again, I will post images just to prove my words.

[TheDarkWraith]

I try to explain again. The escorts strategy is the main problem, they leave the convoy unprotected just to hunt a single sub for days. 2 bad that I forgot to make a screenie about these 8 escorts camping me for 2 days while the rest of the merchants were sitting 5km away and waiting for them to finish me off. This is just wrong :nope: 2 or 3 escort ship is just enough for a single sub, is no need for a whole fleet to keep a sub underwater. Also, their main role should be to keep the sub away from the convoy, not delay the convoy from their schedule. To bring the cargo at the destination should be the main priority, not hunting a solo sub in the middle of Atlantic while a whole nation is in major distress :nope:

An yes, all escorts left the convoy behind to hunt me down. True, one of them was just sitting silent a bit away from the rest of the escorts, seems like he was the commander. But the rest of the convoy were completely stooped about 5-8km further waiting for the escort group to come back in position. Not to mention that the escorts consumed their ammo in just few hours, still they were just passing over and over above me for days. Absolutely pointless strategy for an escort group. If this were made by a dedicated KH group, I would have no objection as this is their role, hunt the sub no matter what. But a large convoy with vital cargo for a whole nation in war stooping in the middle of Atlantic and hunt a single sub for 2 days.. it's just impossible to accept. I will put back IRAI on and if it happens again, I will post images just to prove my words.

this situation I really need some feedback from the AI debugger as to who was the commander (a merchant or a warship), what the roles of each ship were, what tactic was set, etc. This will greatly help me figure out what is going on.

[7thSeal]

TDW, one thing I've noticed during the evolving of your mod is that you only test during single missions available or one that's been setup. I highly encourage you to try a campaign and post your results from the start and on... I believe that alot of whats mentioned is from campaign playing. Anyways, hope this leads to some answers. :)

[Zedi]

TDW, one thing I've noticed during the evolving of your mod is that you only test during single missions available or one that's been setup. I highly encourage you to try a campaign and post your results from the start and on... I believe that alot of whats mentioned is from campaign playing. Anyways, hope this leads to some answers. :)

Ditto. My stories are from HT campaign. Is a major difference between single missions and campaign. In campaign the strategy used by the AI should be simple. There is 2 major groups of military ships: escort and HK. Each one need to have their own strategy.

Escort main role is to.. escort/protect. If a sub is detected, only 1 or max. 3 DD should engage the enemy (depend on the convoy and escort size), the rest stay on course with the convoy and protect it. Is kinda absurd to have all escorts leaving the convoy to hunt down a single contact. When the convoy is at safe distance, they return to their normal course. So, the main goal for escort is to deliver the cargo in time and keep the enemy at distance.

HK. This is a different story as they main role is to hunt &kill. If they detect a enemy contact, they should spend all their energy and resources to finish him off, no matter how much this will take. This group should be the nightmare of every sub/player. This could be a major problem in the campaign with those stupid requirements where we need to sink BB's and carriers.. but lets say, is a nice challenge.

Btw, I installed again IRAI and last night I had some weird but fun moments. First was an unprotected small convoy with 6 merchants in NE Atlantic. Hard to explain why there were unprotected, but they were a very easy prey. On first hit all they do was to slow down to 1knts. No zig-zag, no change course.. just slow down. So I took my time and sunk all of them 1 by 1. This is again wrong.. they should speed up or at least zig-zag, not just slow down and wait to be destroyed ...

Second encounter was with a small convoy with 2 merchants and 2 troop transport. This encounter was just perfect. After I sunk 2 ships, only 1 from the 4 escorts came over to hunt me. And hell yeah.. he was damn good. He shacked my boat very bad, made a LOT of damage on the sub.. lucky me, I managed to fool him by playin dead at 220m, so he left and returned to the convoy. Just perfect!

The last encounter was pure epic, something I never saw in any SH version so far. Just got out from base for a new patrol when I spotted a pretty large german convoy. The surprise was that 4 airplane were fly by and they engaged the convoy! My jaws drooped for what happened next.... I'm so sorry that I had no fraps or something to film this down, was a hell of the show. The escorts and the merchants, all were open fire and there was a epic battle with the sky red from how many shells were shot out (this happened at night without moon or any light source, so the shells were very visible). The planes were damn smart, also the ships.. so it turned out into a very long battle, more than 30 minutes. The planes managed to sink 2 ships and damage badly other 3, the convoy downed 3 airplanes. Sadly had no chance to see how it ends because sudden without any warning my game crashed.. not sure why.

Anyway, I was VERY impressed .. I never thought that this can happen in SH, this is just epic. TDW sir, you did a hell of the job on this mod :yeah: If you can work out the strategy and make a difference between the escorts and HK groups, this mod will be just perfect! A big THANK YOU for all your hard work!

[tonschk]

A big THANK YOU for all your hard work!


I Agree :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

I made the tactics for individual units, convoys, and for HK groups. That's why I'm puzzled when you say that all escorts leave the convoy sometimes. IRAI is so dynamic that it's very hard to debug statically - I need feedback from the AI debugger when you encounter these situations that you feel are strange or not right. It could be that the convoy really is only a convoy of merchants with another HK group escorting it. That would explain all escorts 'leaving' the convoy. I'm not sure how the campaign assigns convoys and HK groups. This is where feedback from the AI debugger would be very helpful. If there are two commanders found in a single convoy then it could possibly denote a merchant convoy being escorted by an HK convoy. In that situation then IRAI is working just as it should be.

[Robin40]

Btw, I installed again IRAI and last night I had some weird but fun moments. First was an unprotected small convoy with 6 merchants in NE Atlantic. Hard to explain why there were unprotected, but they were a very easy prey. On first hit all they do was to slow down to 1knts. No zig-zag, no change course.. just slow down. So I took my time and sunk all of them 1 by 1. This is again wrong.. they should speed up or at least zig-zag, not just slow down and wait to be destroyed ...




It happened also to me

[PL_Andrev]

Escort main role is to.. escort/protect. If a sub is detected, only 1 or max. 3 DD should engage the enemy (depend on the convoy and escort size), the rest stay on course with the convoy and protect it.

Correct, but TDW did it...
After sub contact DD near convoy increases activity with sub listening, looping... It was not perfect, but really works fine.

But it is more questions about wolfpack or multiplayer game.
How the escort can do if they detect second or third contact with or without contact with first?
How the escort can do if merchant is attacked/sunk?


HK. This is a different story as they main role is to hunt &kill. If they detect a enemy contact, they should spend all their energy and resources to finish him off, no matter how much this will take. This group should be the nightmare of every sub/player. This could be a major problem in the campaign with those stupid requirements where we need to sink BB's and carriers.. but lets say, is a nice challenge.

Same story with multicontacts. But tactics for main HK units like carriers or single warships were good implement in the stock game.
Of course I mean only warships, no escort.


I installed again IRAI and last night I had some weird but fun moments. First was an unprotected small convoy with 6 merchants in NE Atlantic. Hard to explain why there were unprotected, but they were a very easy prey. On first hit all they do was to slow down to 1knts. No zig-zag, no change course.. just slow down.

Yeah, this is the problem for this mod.
At SH3/SH4 convoy zigzags with changing course by 90°, but with mathematical precision (with angle and time). At TDW mod ships at convoy change the course... but with ony 10-20° and each ship in other direction.
At SH4 convoy can break the formation: ships after target keep corse, ships before targeted ship changes their course by 90° and swim around uboat.
Slowing down in good tactics (each ship slows down separatelly) but they do not return to initial speed, and some units do not accelerate his speed. It looks like speed formula is "but no more than initial convoy speed".
Test: what about ship speed if max sped is 12 and tactics give order 20kt?



Second encounter was with a small convoy with 2 merchants and 2 troop transport. This encounter was just perfect. After I sunk 2 ships, only 1 from the 4 escorts came over to hunt me. And hell yeah.. he was damn good. He shacked my boat very bad, made a LOT of damage on the sub... lucky me, I managed to fool him by playin dead at 220m, so he left and returned to the convoy. Just perfect!
What about merchants AI?
What about escort level?

[laribe]

What about merchants AI?
What about escort level?

Perhaps all escorts & crew should be set as Competent as a
minimum setting in game, if it could be done?

DW

Learning the de-bugger and all the scripts looked as if they work as per your guide in the missions I tried, I will try a few more:cry:

[Wolfling04]

Perhaps all escorts & crew should be set as Competent as a
minimum setting in game, if it could be done?

DW

Learning the de-bugger and all the scripts looked as if they work as per your guide in the missions I tried, I will try a few more:cry:



Unfortunately that won't work as a lot of the merchant and warship traffic is a randomly generated value that the campaign files generate at random times. There are some convoys/taskforces that are scripted in the campaign.

This is where the fast loading times come from. Not that much to load up when loading your campaign its all generated during your actual patrol.

@Antar I like the sig:haha:

[Robin40]

nice situation....for my sub:DL

convoy 6 merchants 4 escorts

I managed to sink 1 troop transport and damage another one

then I expected the sub chase, but no contacts on sonar

then I go to peri depth...and on peri I saw the whole convoy dead in the water

I sank 2 Black Swan sloops and 2 more merchants then I went to 150 mt deep and left the convoy

strange....I expected that the convoy went on its route leaving me behind

[7thSeal]

strange....I expected that the convoy went on its route leaving me behind

Well it depends alot on the leader and whether or not you sank him. When the leader goes down then all sorts of strange things can happen. As for my gameplay and wanting things to go right or reasonable .... don't sink the leader. Its a bug from the get go. :)

[laribe]

Was you running the AI debugger by chance?

[7thSeal]

Was you running the AI debugger by chance?

Nosir but TDW has mentioned this problem before and though he's implemented for the leader to change to another if sunk it still has some oddities imo.

[laribe]

As DW posted, it can happen if you do not refresh when in debugger mode. It did to me:damn:

[Robin40]

Well it depends alot on the leader and whether or not you sank him. When the leader goes down then all sorts of strange things can happen. As for my gameplay and wanting things to go right or reasonable .... don't sink the leader. Its a bug from the get go. :)

I don't think I sank the leader...how do I know which is the leader?

[Zedi]

Perhaps all escorts & crew should be set as Competent as a
minimum setting in game, if it could be done?

...

I said many times that IRAI need to be used with Elite Campaign mod. That way, all units in the campaign are elites with competent crew and advanced sensors &tactics. The stock AI strategy works just great no matter if is a single mission, campaign or MP. They have the right strategy for every situation, the only problem with them is that they loose contact under 80m and no dc's under 50m.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

The stock AI strategy works just great no matter if is a single mission, campaign or MP. They have the right strategy for every situation

If it is so, then that's the biggest flaw in your proposal. Perfect enemy that always does the right thing is a gameplay killer. Such enemy didn't also exist in reality, so this wouldn't get us closer to "100% realism". This war was a series of failed experiments, trial and error, lucky shots and plain bad fortune - for both sides.

[PL_Andrev]

I said many times that IRAI need to be used with Elite Campaign mod. That way, all units in the campaign are elites with competent crew and advanced sensors &tactics. The stock AI strategy works just great no matter if is a single mission, campaign or MP. They have the right strategy for every situation (...)

I think Magnum has right.
IRAI is tested and reported with different conditions:
- novice, poor, competent, veteran, elite for attacker
- novice, poor, competent, veteran, elite for attacked
- agressive / defensive tactics for escorts

Maybe these conditions cause that sametimes IRAI works perfects, and at other - not...
:doh:

[laribe]

I agree with AVM, it was a game of chance for the escorts in the first part of the war although they could all be considered moderate in game terms. I think the merchants were in another class, their tactics could be erratic, novice in game terms.

[7thSeal]

I don't think I sank the leader...how do I know which is the leader?

Well, response will show you as the group as a whole will respond, following them will help determine this. Patience will help out here. :)

[Wolfling04]

Is there a trick to this?

I've been at 150 meters for the last 24hrs with 5 escorts above me, making constant course changes trying to shake them plus little depth changes as I'm only at 90rpms/1kt batteries are about dead and CO2 is almost full and I STILL can't lose the escorts. It is 1943 though.

Any hints? Thanks.

[PL_Andrev]

Is there a trick to this?

I've been at 150 meters for the last 24hrs with 5 escorts above me, making constant course changes trying to shake them plus little depth changes as I'm only at 90rpms/1kt batteries are about dead and CO2 is almost full and I STILL can't lose the escorts. It is 1943 though.

Any hints? Thanks.

Why do you put in to IRAI thread?
Use 0.5kt + silent run + depth 180-220 meters

[Wolfling04]

I put it here because I'm using IRAI. I couldn't go any deeper as I had an aircraft catch me on the surface just before sunset the day before.

Actually soon after posting that reply, heavy seas and a thick fog rolled in, after finding a gap in their pattern I surfaced and made a V-line south Just barely getting away.

[Zedi]

Don't forget about decoys. Was the only way to escape since SH3. Max the engines/speed and when you hear the first DC's next to ur sub, launch decoys, stop engines, turn hard &deeper and play dead. Most of the time works, the AI will work on ur decoys for a while, just giving you enough time to slip away in complete silence.

[The General]

Don't forget about decoys. Was the only way to escape since SH3. Max the engines/speed and when you hear the first DC's next to ur sub, launch decoys, stop engines, turn hard &deeper and play dead. Most of the time works, the AI will work on ur decoys for a while, just giving you enough time to slip away in complete silence.Yet another flaw in SH5 is that you can use decoys even before they existed :-?

[TheDarkWraith]

Yet another flaw in SH5 is that you can use decoys even before they existed :-?

what year did decoys become available? It should be easy to fix.

[DarTMauK]

what year did decoys become available? It should be easy to fix.

As far as i know they were sucessfully testet in 1941 on a patrol, after that was decided to use them on all subs and built into every sub at 1942.

[eagleFMJ]

Mod seems great so far, having the planes attack and trying to avoid them is a real challenge.

Can some one please help, my flak gunner doesn't shoot at the planes, I select fire at any plane/fire at will/fire at fighters/bombers, and have battle stations set to on, and still nothing.

Is there a tutorial on the crew commands, and how to set them etc?

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

The planes have to get into range you set your gunner to fire.

[PL_Andrev]

Tested my mission (small convoy+5 escorts) with IRAI.0.25 + all ELITE units.
Great success! IRAI works perfect!!

At stock game DD do not react if merchant is attacked (escort do not detect my presence). With IRAI.0.25 4 of 5 DD start looping and detect me... and destroy my uboat.
:D

3 DD are looking me at this same place (my uboat was detected by 4th...)
:88)

Convoy does not change bearing when escort ships detect my uboat when I was prepared to 'attack' (submerged hi-speed)
:88)

After my uboat's detection all closest DD (4of 5) attack my sub. I'm not sure that it is good, maybe two should looking for others uboats?
:hmmm:

Torpedo detection idea.
Is possible to alarm convoy when torpedo is shot?
If DD can hear uboat, why cannot hear a torpedo with 30-45kt?
Convoy should be alarmed if torpedo is detected at water (and sub detection) - for me, DD should shoot white flares (FX mod) to put a light on surface, shoot alarm flare for convoy, and convoy should change the course about 45°...
:03:

Alarm flare - trailer SH2 (near 1:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBy39tXgkrM

[DarTMauK]

Just a question, is it still kind of impossible to escape the DD's like in many other AI mods? I tried many where it seems nearly impossible to escape, once your detected, no matter what i do....and IMO im no noob in SH games.
I have nth against a hard AI, but i experienced, that it seems they kind of cheat and always know exactly where i am. But stock AI is just too stupid as we all know :DL
Just wanted to know before i use it and get stuck on my patrol.
I've read the thread but seems many ppl have difference experiences with this mod.

[TheDarkWraith]

Just a question, is it still kind of impossible to escape the DD's like in many other AI mods? I tried many where it seems nearly impossible to escape, once your detected, no matter what i do....and IMO im no noob in SH games.
I have nth against a hard AI, but i experienced, that it seems they kind of cheat and always know exactly where i am. But stock AI is just too stupid as we all know :DL
Just wanted to know before i use it and get stuck on my patrol.
I've read the thread but seems many ppl have difference experiences with this mod.

different experiences due to the random nature of the mod. You can escape if you use the right tactics and evasive maneuvers/diving deep.
If you're stupid enough to make an attack in shallow waters well then you will die, that's all there is to it.
With this mod you will have to plan your attack carefully and skillfully. No more run and gun as you will die.

[Robin40]

Just a question, is it still kind of impossible to escape the DD's like in many other AI mods? I tried many where it seems nearly impossible to escape, once your detected, no matter what i do....and IMO im no noob in SH games.
I have nth against a hard AI, but i experienced, that it seems they kind of cheat and always know exactly where i am. But stock AI is just too stupid as we all know :DL
Just wanted to know before i use it and get stuck on my patrol.
I've read the thread but seems many ppl have difference experiences with this mod.

no being stuck...just disable IRAI...escape...then return to IRAI

I deid this when I was stuck for 24 hrs by an escort

I slippped away...it slipped after me...I stopped...it stopped....I went to surface and it followed me...always at a distande 0f 9 km

[Robin40]

different experiences due to the random nature of the mod. You can escape if you use the right tactics and evasive maneuvers/diving deep.
If you're stupid enough to make an attack in shallow waters well then you will die, that's all there is to it.
With this mod you will have to plan your attack carefully and skillfully. No more run and gun as you will die.

well...this looks like a bug

I slippped away...it slipped after me...I stopped...it stopped....I went to surface and it followed me...always at a distande of 9 km..a lone DD that came after me when I was at 20 km, 20 mt deep

in otherrs cases I managed to escape at depth 170 mt, 1 knt silent runnung

[DarTMauK]

different experiences due to the random nature of the mod. You can escape if you use the right tactics and evasive maneuvers/diving deep.
If you're stupid enough to make an attack in shallow waters well then you will die, that's all there is to it.
With this mod you will have to plan your attack carefully and skillfully. No more run and gun as you will die.


Ok thanks for the fast answers guys, think i will try out asap :DL
Attacks in shallow water are for sure not very intelligent with a proper AI.
So i give it a go and try my luck. I hope i manage it :D

[PL_Andrev]

TDW,

Is possible to re-define level of difficulty for units?
for example: veteran = elite * 0,8 sensors etc

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW,

Is possible to re-define level of difficulty for units?
for example: veteran = elite * 0,8 sensors etc

you want all veteran units to be elite units? Or ??

[The General]

DW, do you test your AI Mod in the Campaign or just in Single Missions?

[TheDarkWraith]

DW, do you test your AI Mod in the Campaign or just in Single Missions?

I haven't 'played' the game yet if that answers your question :DL

[The General]

I haven't 'played' the game yet if that answers your question :DLOk, I'm sorry to report that the surface vessel AI doesn't work very well :cry:

[TheDarkWraith]

Ok, I'm sorry to report that the surface vessel AI doesn't work very well :cry:

all surface AI uses the same tactics but depending on their crew level will determine how well they carry out those tactics. You are probably encountering crew that are competent or novice which would explain why you say the surface vessel AI doesn't work very well. If you encounter a veteran or elite surface vessel you'll wish you had novice or competent crew AI again.

[The General]

all surface AI uses the same tactics but depending on their crew level will determine how well they carry out those tactics. You are probably encountering crew that are competent or novice which would explain why you say the surface vessel AI doesn't work very well. If you encounter a veteran or elite surface vessel you'll wish you had novice or competent crew AI again.Actually I just encountered a Task Force (1940) that once it detected me could not be shook off. Even when I was at 175 meters and running silent. The Merchants don't react as they should either. Surely the overall objective of any AI mod is to have the enemy react in a realistic fashion, sadly that just isn't the case. The changes you've made to the aircraft AI is a definite improvement though.

[pascal4541]

:yeah: :03:

[TheDarkWraith]

Actually I just encountered a Task Force (1940) that once it detected me could not be shook off. Even when I was at 175 meters and running silent. The Merchants don't react as they should either. Surely the overall objective of any AI mod is to have the enemy react in a realistic fashion, sadly that just isn't the case. The changes you've made to the aircraft AI is a definite improvement though.

it would be great if you could tell me what you see is wrong. Also feedback from the AI debugger will greatly help me determine if there's a problem or not (what tactic was set, what each ship's role was, etc.)

[The General]

it would be great if you could tell me what you see is wrong. Also feedback from the AI debugger will greatly help me determine if there's a problem or not (what tactic was set, what each ship's role was, etc.)What do I do from here? I have loaded my Saved game where I am encountering the aforementioned unbeatable taskforce. I have turned on the AI Debugger(During Patrol), but when I select one of the Units it just says: Preconditions 1, Keep Conditions :hmmm:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8481/54969416.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/54969416.jpg/)

[The General]

...Wait, I selected one of the ships in the Debugger and the game crashed. How am I supposed to find out anything? :-?

[PL_Andrev]

...Wait, I selected one of the ships in the Debugger and the game crashed. How am I supposed to find out anything? :-?

Maybe this unit was sunk?
My game crashed if I click on unit.
Select a ship, then click on strategy. Should works fine.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

This mod is gonna get me killed.:wah:

[TheDarkWraith]

What do I do from here? I have loaded my Saved game where I am encountering the aforementioned unbeatable taskforce.

Is it possible that you can send me that saved game so I can load it up and see what's going on?

[7thSeal]

no being stuck...just disable IRAI...escape...then return to IRAI

I deid this when I was stuck for 24 hrs by an escort

I slippped away...it slipped after me...I stopped...it stopped....I went to surface and it followed me...always at a distande 0f 9 km

This sounds like the stock bug that shows itself at times. If so, just save your game and restart and they will 'unstick' from you.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

You sure this mod works? I sank that Carrier off Portsmouth and 7 DDs really coudn't find me even when I was below them at 20m.:O::O:

[PL_Andrev]

You sure this mod works? I sank that Carrier off Portsmouth and 7 DDs really coudn't find me even when I was below them at 20m.:O::O:

Single mission? Campaign?
Year? Escort level?

If you have saved this mission install Elite campaign mod and try again.

[Wolfling04]

You sure this mod works? I sank that Carrier off Portsmouth and 7 DDs really coudn't find me even when I was below them at 20m.:O::O:

Maybe you scared them away, I mean heck man you sank a carrier, I wouldn't want to mess with that Sub skipper either:O:

[tonschk]

Maybe you scared them away, I mean heck man you sank a carrier, I wouldn't want to mess with that Sub skipper either :O:



:har:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

It happened during the Total Germany campaign where you have to sink one carrier on patrol. I was in the middle of the convoy and the carrier was 800m away from me. I sent 4 overheated torps at full speed.:D

[laribe]

The DW could you give me rundown on these rports pls? A small convoy with escorts and one ship been hit ,Dc blew on the stern of 1DD at end of run.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6513/after1dcatt.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/after1dcatt.jpg/)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4412/leaderjusthit.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/leaderjusthit.jpg/)

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.26 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[THE_MASK]

My hydrophone operator can hear again with this version , not sure why he couldnt with previous ones . This version rocks .

[PL_Andrev]

v0.0.26 released. See post #1 for details :|\\
- HK groups now get a maximum of 2 escorts assigned the role of guard convoy
- non-HK groups now get a maximum of 4 escorts assigned the role of guard convoy

What is difference with tactics between "escort assigned" and "escort not assigned to guard convoy" ?

[Zedi]

It's what I was hopping for .. they will not leave the convoy unprotected anymore just to hunt a single sub. So there will be always escorts assigned to protect/stay with the convoy.

Tbh... I was really tired to see a whole fleet of DD's over me. I started now Mare Nostrum and since those waters are filled with task forces soon as I hit one, I got them all over me. For 3 days, even I was sailing between 180-210m bellow and used all possible evade tactics. After that, another group of 8 DD's that was passing by joined them. So after 4 days I got over 15 DD's hunting me. That was ridiculous, so I had to load an older save.

Also, I noticed an old bug from stock making his way back ... the escort ships that will get glued to your sub. When a convoy or task force is passing by at long distance, one of the escorts is leaving the formation and get glued to your sub doing nothing else than circling forever at a constant distance. To shake them down u need to reload the game or drive them at shore. Hope this new version will solve this bug too.

/ty

[PL_Andrev]

Fast tests with IRAI 0.26:
Mission type: small convoy - 8 merchants with 5 escorts
All unit competent level: 1942 / equipmment: middle war

+ Merchants are not stopping now,
+ Part of ecsort are attacking my uboat,
+ Convoy changes course at this same direction,

- Escort keep max 14kt (when run to looking area),
- Escort do not loop to check last known postion of uboat,
- Convoy change direction too slow,


All unit ELITE level: 1942 / equipmment: middle war
+ Merchants react when ubaot is detected by escort,
- Uboat with full speed and high evade manoeuvres at hi-speed, and enter into convoy at periscope depth: escort do not catch me, and works as they do not listen me - they do not attack me.

[TheDarkWraith]

there's a delicate balancing act to be had to make escorts come seek you out and to make them behave semi-intelligently. There is no command available for the AI to tell how far it is from the convoy (if it is part of a convoy). Thus when I assign escorts the role of protect convoy or plaster and they detect a contact they will run off and investigate the contact. Now it would be nice to say if these escorts are x distance from convoy they need to return to the convoy but there's no such command. As long as these escorts detect you they will stay glued to you even if the convoy is 100km away from them :nope:
The escorts assigned the role guard convoy are a little smarter. There is a command that tells me whether the contact is inside the convoy 'area' or not. If you are inside the convoy area then these escorts will seek you out. If they don't detect you anymore or because of convoy movement you are now found to be outside the convoy area they will return to their original place in the convoy.
As it stands now escorts are divied out roles and after all roles are filled the remaining escorts are assigned the role of protect convoy. It may be that I need change the remaining escorts to be assigned the role guard convoy instead. We'll see with the feedback from you all on this version.
I hope this clears up some confusion as to why the escorts behave the way they do. This also explains why you can get many escorts 'piled up' on you. The only way to get rid of them is to evade contact long enough for them to lose contact and then they will return to their convoys (if they were part of one)

[TheDarkWraith]

Fast tests with IRAI 0.26:
Mission type: small convoy - 8 merchants with 5 escorts
All unit competent level: 1942 / equipmment: middle war

+ Merchants are not stopping now,
+ Part of ecsort are attacking my uboat,
+ Convoy changes course at this same direction,

- Escort keep max 14kt (when run to looking area),
- Escort do not loop to check last known postion of uboat,
- Convoy change direction too slow

In part of the tactics there is a function that tells the AI to use full speed until it reaches x distance from contact. During this full speed run it ignores whether it has the contact detected or not. It's main goal is just to reach the last position of the contact it detected (and hopefully detect the contact on the way to this destination). There is a maximum amount of time that a contact can be lost before the current tactic is reset or the escort is told to resume following waypoints. If at the end of this full speed run that time has been exceeded then the escort will immediately return to following waypoints (which can mean returning back to convoy).

There are parameters in the init.aix file that one can adjust to tweak the AI for testing purposes. Try playing with all the values to help me adjust the AI. For convoy changing direction there are many parameters that affect this:
CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_SPEED_CHANGE_MIN = 0.4;
CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_SPEED_CHANGE_MAX = 0.8;
CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_CHANGE = 40.0;
CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_SPEED_CHANGE_TIME = 4.0;
CONVOY_LEADER_CONTACT_LOST_CONTINUE_ACTION_TIME = 600.0; # 10 mins
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_SPEED_CHANGE_MIN = 0.5;
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_SPEED_CHANGE_MAX = 0.9;
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_CHANGE = 45.0;
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_SPEED_CHANGE_ TIME = 2.0;
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_CONTACT_LOST_CONTINUE_ACTIO N_TIME = 600.0; # 10 mins

[7thSeal]

My hydrophone operator can hear again with this version , not sure why he couldnt with previous ones . This version rocks .

I noticed this too with version .25, I ended up deleting the the Sensors.cfg and my hydrophone operator was able to hear again. So it was something in that file that was causes problems.

Giving .26 version a try now and glad to here that its working again. :)

[TheDarkWraith]

I noticed this too with version .25, I ended up deleting the the Sensors.cfg and my hydrophone operator was able to hear again. So it was something in that file that was causes problems.

Giving .26 version a try now and glad to here that its working again. :)

nothing changed in Sensors.cfg. That file hasn't been touched for many versions now :hmmm:

[7thSeal]

At the time of having problems I was using the VIIC 41, wonder if that had anything to do with it? I tried re-installing the mod even downloaded it again during the time but with the same results, as soon as I deleted that file and re enabled the mod is the only way I could get my hydrophone listening again. The hydrophone would work fine when I would jump on it and listen but not with my operator listening before deleting it.

[TheDarkWraith]

All unit ELITE level: 1942 / equipmment: middle war
+ Merchants are not reacting when ubaot is detected by escort,
- Uboat with full speed and high evade manoeuvres at hi-speed, and enter into convoy at periscope depth: escort do not catch me, and works as they do not listen me - they do not attack me.

can you send me the test mission you used for the above? I'd like to see what's going on with the AI with this.

[PL_Andrev]

can you send me the test mission you used for the above? I'd like to see what's going on with the AI with this.

Here is mistake with "in plus" description ("+" sign), my fault:
+ Merchants react when uboat is detected by escort,


I use max speed and run into convoy at periscope depth (to see unit localization / map update). When I use no speed or small flank I was detected and sunk very fast. But with hi-speed and evade the enemy escort cannot find me and cannot prepare successful (or other) attack.

Three missions are available here, install by JSGME:
Small convoy (8 merch) with 5 DD / middle war equipment
1) All units competent level
2) All units elite level
3) All units elite level for multiplayer mode (2 players)
http://www.filefront.com/17316020/Military_convoy.zip

[TheDarkWraith]

Here is mistake with "in plus" description ("+" sign), my fault:
+ Merchants react when uboat is detected by escort,


I use max speed and run into convoy at periscope depth (to see unit localization / map update). When I use no speed or small flank I was detected and sunk very fast. But with hi-speed and evade the enemy escort cannot find me and cannot prepare successful (or other) attack.

Three missions are available here, install by JSGME:
Small convoy (8 merch) with 5 DD / middle war equipment
1) All units competent level
2) All units elite level
3) All units elite level for multiplayer mode (2 players)
http://www.filefront.com/17316020/Military_convoy.zip

you are at periscope depth during this but is your scope up? If so, which scope is raised? Do you keep it raised all the time?

[THE_MASK]

Here is mistake with "in plus" description ("+" sign), my fault:
+ Merchants react when uboat is detected by escort,


I use max speed and run into convoy at periscope depth (to see unit localization / map update). When I use no speed or small flank I was detected and sunk very fast. But with hi-speed and evade the enemy escort cannot find me and cannot prepare successful (or other) attack.

Three missions are available here, install by JSGME:
Small convoy (8 merch) with 5 DD / middle war equipment
1) All units competent level
2) All units elite level
3) All units elite level for multiplayer mode (2 players)
http://www.filefront.com/17316020/Military_convoy.zipI just downloaded and played that . I went to 100 meters and ahead flank , they triangulated my position . I could hear more than 1 escort pinging so basically i was screwed .

[laribe]

Great job as usual on .26 and the only problem I have is that the DDs make a good run but do not drop. In this report they are DCing but in game they just pass over:hmmm:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9850/fintest2.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9850/fintest2.jpg)



http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/83/cmdtorpdam.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/83/cmdtorpdam.jpg)



The other 1 is after a ship was hit.

[TheDarkWraith]

Great job as usual on .26 and the only problem I have is that the DDs make a good run but do not drop. In this report they are DCing but in game they just pass over:hmmm:
The other 1 is after a ship was hit.

in the first screenshot everything is there for them to DC...operation Plaster is set and firing of DCs is enabled....don't know why they aren't dropping DCs....what depth were you at when this happened?

The second screenshot I see a problem: the commander is trying to set a tactic but it's being overrun by the TerminateOperationComm tactic. I see why the TerminateOperationComm is being set - it's unable to continue the current tactic (CanContinueCurrentTactic == 0). How many ships were in this group? Any of them merchants? I can't see exactly which tactic the commander was trying to set in the second screenshot. This could potentially cause a bad bug.

[laribe]

Looking at it there are 5 DDs and 8 merchants in 1 group. It is pretty good as the merchants veer off and normally 3 or 4 DDs attack and keep me down and inflict damage. If they dropped on every run it would be even better!

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8158/dcatt.jpg (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8158/dcatt.jpg%20%20Uploaded%20with%20) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

This one dropped :yeah:

[Hunter990s]

Hello Guys,

the behaviour of the escorts is what i was looking for!! good Job !!!

they detect me and start to attack, even if i go to 190 m deep.

They throw a lot of DC but none of them ever hurt me :nope:

Is it possible to increase the accuracy of the DD throwing DC ??

I even increased the HP and the max Radius of the DC (DC-barrels sim , Zon ...) but im still not really afraid of the DD :wah:

[TheDarkWraith]

Hello Guys,

the behaviour of the escorts is what i was looking for!! good Job !!!

they detect me and start to attack, even if i go to 190 m deep.

They throw a lot of DC but none of them ever hurt me :nope:

Is it possible to increase the accuracy of the DD throwing DC ??

I even increased the HP and the max Radius of the DC (DC-barrels sim , Zon ...) but im still not really afraid of the DD :wah:

which items did you adjust for the DC? And which DCs specifically did you adjust? I have a list of all DCs used by the ships so I can tell you if you adjusted the correct ones or not.

[Hunter990s]

DC Barrels.sim :

ammun_Deptcharge --> explosion_ range increased to 90
explosion_impulse increased to 2100

DC Barrels.zon :

ammo Damage info --> MaxEF to 90
MaxRadius to 50


DC_X_H.zon :

ammun_Deptcharge --> explosion range to 90
explosion impulse to 2000

hope thin informations are useful :03:

[TheDarkWraith]

here are all the DCs used in game:

DCs used by ships:
YGun_Mk9 (A37045D30F9BBF28) uses: A294330B0BC0EE13 - found in DC_barrels.sim
Airborne_DC (CC38CCAD564754C5) found in guns_radars_01
DCRack_Mk9 (122D0A1E978137EE) uses: A294330B0BC0EE13 - found in DC_barrels.sim
KGun_Mk9 (31B84DE8D21A095C) uses: A294330B0BC0EE13 - found in DC_barrels.sim
Hhog (4588AA716FFAB05B) uses: E194621AC35D377B - found in DC_X_H.zon
YGun (67FC49500C425900) uses: E43032E245CE51DD - found in DC_barrels.sim
DCRack (D687FCC130542A7B) uses: E43032E245CE51DD - found in DC_barrels.sim
KGun (F591EAC4B3374B00) uses: E43032E245CE51DD - found in DC_barrels.sim

the hex numbers are read from the hex editor and thus are backwards

you need to be adjusting the minradius and maxradius not the ones you have adjusted

[Hunter990s]

hmm,

I don`t know which programm to use to find and change this items :damn:

im using skwas silent hunter editor...

[TheDarkWraith]

hmm,

I don`t know which programm to use to find and change this items :damn:

im using skwas silent hunter editor...

not familiar with skwas's tool so I can't be much help. The hex IDs I have given you probably need to be reversed to be used in his tool. Or you can use a hex editor and adjust them (the best tool you'll ever use!) :D

[capt-jones]

:salute: ahoy TheDarkWraith
keep up the good work just downloaded your last update 026 great work lots of dc attacks lots of damage to sub all compartments flooding even got the torpedo room and the sonar room and even the kitchen got flooded,another leap forward for sh5,this was one of the great things about sh3 trying too control flooding !"a game within a game" water did actually pass over the kitchen and sleeping quarters .:hmmm:so is it possible too mod the water to rise over doorways this then might put the hatch doors to good use ,anyway it looks like you are heading in the right direction keep it up BTW also tried the fx update0.3 another awesome mod cheers for now:smug:

[SteelViking]

hmm,

I don`t know which programm to use to find and change this items :damn:

im using skwas silent hunter editor...


I find that Goblin is better to use on SH5 .sim files than S3D is. Just a suggestion.

[SteelViking]

:salute: ahoy TheDarkWraith
keep up the good work just downloaded your last update 026 great work lots of dc attacks lots of damage to sub all compartments flooding even got the torpedo room and the sonar room and even the kitchen got flooded,another leap forward for sh5,this was one of the great things about sh3 trying too control flooding !"a game within a game" water did actually pass over the kitchen and sleeping quarters .:hmmm:so is it possible too mod the water to rise over doorways this then might put the hatch doors to good use ,anyway it looks like you are heading in the right direction keep it up BTW also tried the fx update0.3 another awesome mod cheers for now:smug:

I am almost positive that I can increase the height that the flooding water reaches inside each room. I have ran into the controllers used to render the water in the sub before due to all my work on the interior. However, I am pretty sure that it won't actually cause the flooding to spread. The graphics for flooding, and the actual flooding of the sub affect wise are not linked that way.

In other words, when the graphic of the water in a room goes above a door threshold, it will not spill into the next compartment.

TDW, do you have any incite into the dynamics of the subs damage/flooding characteristics?

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, do you have any incite into the dynamics of the subs damage/flooding characteristics?

sorry, no. Haven't looked into any of that stuff yet.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Hey TDW, just wanted to let you know that the uboot_sensors.sim file in this version of IRAI is not compatible with the one in the FX update and UI mod; the new behavior of the DF loop and antenna is not visible when IRAI is last on the install list. Oh, and what would be the proper install order of all three of them?

[Zedi]

I wanna register a complain against a brit bomber that almost riped my boat in pieces. The boat is so damaged now that is already week since the repairs started and the batteries are still not repaired :dead: Excellent work TDW!:up:

I have to admit that I also miss a sh3 or 4 damage and crew control panel. Wish I could order repair priorities, see whos injuried and whos not, give out orders not just standing there and do nothing. Because in sh5 we can do absolutely nothing when the boat is damages... just tc and wait.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I have to admit that I also miss a sh3 or 4 damage and crew control panel. Wish I could order repair priorities, see whos injuried and whos not, give out orders not just standing there and do nothing. Because in sh5 we can do absolutely nothing when the boat is damages... just tc and wait.

Hmm. In my version I can at least assign damage repair team to a certain task - repair this, repair that first. No queue, but it's still something. Check this - I am sure you have this possibility as well.

[tonschk]

I am pretty sure that it won't actually cause the flooding to spread. The graphics for flooding, and the actual flooding of the sub affect wise are not linked that way.

In other words, when the graphic of the water in a room goes above a door threshold, it will not spill into the next compartment.



This is a pity :wah:, the ideal was if the flooding was able to spill progressively to every compartment ( unless the hatch is closed )

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z58/tonschk/zzz.jpg

[Zedi]

Hmm. In my version I can at least assign damage repair team to a certain task - repair this, repair that first. No queue, but it's still something. Check this - I am sure you have this possibility as well.

I'm not sure I can understand what are u talkin about... is a mod or something? Because I can't change the repair list order. I had to get back to the base for a full repair... which is also pretty realistic.

Anyway, is the first time when I saw my sub different compartment flooded, the engine room was a mess. Now I learned to be very careful with the planes.. no more dodging and fight back. If one of their bombs hit the sub, game over.

[Zedi]

Torpedo miss. The AI airforces are just awsome in this mod.. topedoes, bombs, hedgehogs etc.. they drop everything they got and they do it good.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5025540226_28f1edcd97_z.jpg


Here is the result after I messed up with a taskforce that included few Dido's :nope: All these smoking ships are the escorts searching for my sub. but none hit/damaged by me.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5025540064_9904df1d86_b.jpg

[Hunter990s]

ok guys im to foolish to increase the DC effect by my self :nope:

maybe you can increase the effect a bit for the next version of IRAI ?!


But i noticed an other thing:

i attacked a small convoy in the north atlantic (1940) and after the first torpedo hit, all freighters stopped for a while :damn:

maybe there is a way to improve the behavior of the convoy in such a situation ...

i go on testing :salute:

[PL_Andrev]

Here is the result after I messed up with a taskforce that included few Dido's :nope: All these smoking ships are the escorts searching for my sub. but none hit/damaged by me.

It is not possible to prepare good AI for all AI level, but is too many question for this situation. It is not criticism, but it is no way to prepare a better AI by TDW.

Is it a single mission to replay and test/upgrade AI?
What level of AI (and equipment type) is included in described situation?
What type of escorts are used?

[TheDarkWraith]

Torpedo miss. The AI airforces are just awsome in this mod.. topedoes, bombs, hedgehogs etc.. they drop everything they got and they do it good.

Here is the result after I messed up with a taskforce that included few Dido's :nope: All these smoking ships are the escorts searching for my sub. but none hit/damaged by me.

This is a possibility to see since now the 'leader' doesn't run off for HK groups. Due to the leader being possibly a battleship or carrier or heavy cruiser, they are clumsy and run into things without regard. That is why I originally had them 'running off' to avoid these problems of burning ships. But when they run off then the other ships don't attack your sub. So it's a catch-22 on what to do :hmmm:

[Zedi]

Is a shot from mare nostrum with Lite and Elite campaign mod on. So they are all elite with competent crew. I mostly play campaigns... over and over again :P

I was hunting those ghost Force xyz and I encountered one of those way to many taskforces that got a Dido and a light cruiser in the middle. Had no intention to engage them, so I dived at 180m deep and turned boat to evade.. but a lame armed crawler of wtf was that, passed over me and somehow he noticed my presence. Then hell got loose.. all ships got back and started to dance around me.

Also, the glued escort ships are still present. I need to run them ashore or reload the game to get rid of them. It's kinda funny.. you discovered the devs bug included in the pre-patch1.2 stock game :D Anyway, I still think that v 0.15-17 was the best version, never had any trouble at that time, was a pure joy to have this mod.

[Hunter990s]

I noticed an other point,

my sonarman only reports warships, so if im close to a convoy, i only can see blue contact lines !!!

ah and the hydrophone only works at 20 ++ meters, if i am on periscope dept, you can´t hear anything ...

any idea what is going on with the sonaroperator ??

[PL_Andrev]

There are parameters in the init.aix file that one can adjust to tweak the AI for testing purposes. Try playing with all the values to help me adjust the AI. For convoy changing direction there are many parameters that affect this:
CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_SPEED_CHANGE_TIME = 4.0;
MERCHANT_CONVOY_LEADER_ACTION_COURSE_SPEED_CHANGE_ TIME = 2.0;


Hmmm... I changed these values 2x less and 2x, 5x higher, equal and not and I didn't see special changes in convoy ordering.

1. The most strange is that the escort always known where I am (they looking for me at correct side of convoy).

2. If escort is hearing my torpedo, why they do not react?

3. Convoy does not zigzag (always turn at stern to me)

4. Convoy does not change course at this same time - not "immediately". It looks like other ships react will high delay to commander.

--------

Edit:
It is not true that convoy is not zigzaging, at same cases leader turn to my side (at left) but only 10° for previous course. After that they change the course to stern to me.

Tested with 'military convoy / competent level mission'
Mission is available at http://www.filefront.com/17316020/Military_convoy.zip

[Ragtag]

Torpedo miss. The AI airforces are just awsome in this mod.. topedoes, bombs, hedgehogs etc.. they drop everything they got and they do it good.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5025540226_28f1edcd97_z.jpg


Here is the result after I messed up with a taskforce that included few Dido's :nope: All these smoking ships are the escorts searching for my sub. but none hit/damaged by me.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5025540064_9904df1d86_b.jpg

Which underwater mod are you using?
Beautiful picture :)

[Zedi]

Which underwater mod are you using?
Beautiful picture :)

Part of SH5EnvModGold found here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=165714), it's inside the v3 package. Direct link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1796&act=down)

[W_clear]

Hope the destroyers close to the submarines by word Z。

Thanks。:salute:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Gold is a great environment mod!:yeah:

[laribe]

On a side note how do you change the values with Hex edit or the link for a good tutorial:yeah:

[Reece]

Which underwater mod are you using?
Beautiful picture :)I have that and is good, but the surface color is blue, any mod that can change that to green?:hmmm:

[Zedi]

I have that and is good, but the surface color is blue, any mod that can change that to green?:hmmm:

Is this green enough?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5033815788_8f5ae7c3a2_b.jpg

Is the result of Environment 3.7 MOD, but I had to struggle a lot to make it stable and not crash my game every time I play.

Sorry for the offtopic :oops:

[Robin40]

Intelligent IRAI:DL

I met a task force with 2 CA's and 10 DD's

My proud Kaleun managed to sink one CA

The DD's came after my U-Boot and after a 10 hours hunting my Kaleun succeded in escaping.....after sinking 3 more DD's:up:

Well...not so....those DD's did everything by themselves:o:D

[PL_Andrev]

Good video with red flares at SH3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qHkLDW_xV4

[TheDarkWraith]

Good video with red flares at SH3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qHkLDW_xV4

that looked like my SH4 effects for SH3 mod in use in that video :hmmm:

[tonschk]

:up: Thank you for the new version of IRAI :DL

[[501]Otto]

Thx, this is a "must have", those dammed DD´s now hunt you and the planes always attack. Great work :yeah:

[Zedi]

imho v15-17 was a must have. I would be very grateful for anyone who still has those versions and can share it...

[TheDarkWraith]

imho v15-17 was a must have. I would be very grateful for anyone who still has those versions and can share it...

the problem with versions prior to 20 is that the merchants scatter. Merchant convoy action or convoys including merchants don't behave properly. That's why I had to do this follow the leader thing.

[schnorchel]

Hi Darkwraith, First thank you very much for your great work. i tried your AI in PQ17 mission seems no way to survive in my boat when 6+ DDs DC me together. one problem I noticed that the batterys are very quickly lost totally after 3 or 4 close DC impact. And I can not find how to repair it. seems no way to recover it. then I am a sitting duck finnally DDs finish me.:wah:

[pzrshrek]

Hi, cant do the 66 page reading now sry, but to make it short:

Is this mod reliable and stable now? A must mod to add? My newly installed game hs not yet any game mechanic-mods in it, only the nos sonar on water and no airplane detection submerged mods..

Does the AI behave realistic, i dont want to die every patrol hehe, so i dont mind if the AI suck on occasions..

Have a nice day!

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi, cant do the 66 page reading now sry, but to make it short:

Is this mod reliable and stable now? A must mod to add? My newly installed game hs not yet any game mechanic-mods in it, only the nos sonar on water and no airplane detection submerged mods..

Does the AI behave realistic, i dont want to die every patrol hehe, so i dont mind if the AI suck on occasions..

Have a nice day!

the mod is stable and it is very hard at 1.0 difficulty. You can change the difficulty settings for the AI sensors by editing the \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix files

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

[pzrshrek]

Thanx the darkwraith, i will try it out immediately!

[pzrshrek]

the mod is stable and it is very hard at 1.0 difficulty. You can change the difficulty settings for the AI sensors by editing the \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix files

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

Would a value to 0.8 here be still effective or how sensitive is this?

EDIT: Sadly, iget processor overloads all the time using this mod, i found it unbelivable but restarted without it and the peeks are gone now, perhaps its a conflict since i also use your No sonar on surfance and No aircraft spotting submerged mods? Atleast The mod enabler complains of overwriting files here..
I postpone this for now, but will chec back regurlary really need an AI mod that works, yet even more need a no sonar on surface mod

[pzrshrek]

Upgrading from an old gtx8800 to a new gigabyte 470gtx oc today, going to be interesting to see the difference :-D

[THE_MASK]

Upgrading from an old gtx8800 to a new gigabyte 470gtx oc today, going to be interesting to see the difference :-DYou will be amazed , the gameplay is good with mods but the graphics is where the game stands out if you can run it on max settings .

[W_clear]

Hi Mr TDW。
I have a question, please help me。
All the guns on the warships will fire to sub When the submarine above the surface，Than all the guns on the warships stop fire When the submarine periscope depth and periscope out of the water。This is not different from SH3 and SH4。Is it possible to adjust this error？

Thanks。

[W_clear]

I had test it again, with satisfactory results，However, the damage parameters of fish need to be adjusted, and I after the submarine was torpedoed, damage is very small。Torpedo planes Shoot torpedo to be too far away, also need to be adjusted, this can improve the hit rate of torpedo。

http://i54.tinypic.com/1zpjnzn.gif

[THE_MASK]

I had test it again, with satisfactory results，However, the damage parameters of fish need to be adjusted, and I after the submarine was torpedoed, damage is very small。


look at this thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=175789
3. Ai torpedoes are now more powerfull.They will kill a sub with one shot.

[raymond6751]

I think the minor damage mentioned for that video torpedo hit is because the thing didn't hit the sub amidships. It blew up at the stern. In real life they would have no rudder or props left. Anyway, looks great.

Thanks

[Kretschmer the IV]

Woow, sounds great :yeah: I'll give it a try. Havnt played sh5 since release because the vanilla sucked. but im so happy that modders are making our day! thank you :salute:

[W_clear]

I adjusted the torpedo The maximum radius of damage.
http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101007/20101007_7246b44e53d0036ec77bGmZrrOdFiTOk.jpg

[Rickster1]

Can any one tll me how to open the data\script\ai\init.aix file please. Thanks

[sentenc3]

Can any one tll me how to open the data\script\ai\init.aix file please. Thanks



open in edit with notepad:ping:

[Rickster1]

thanks

[SashaKA001]

The question is how to reduce the detection range of submarines destroyers, a little time pursuit, and most importantly damage inflicted by depth charges PL and the accuracy of their falling into the PL?

[TheDarkWraith]

The question is how to reduce the detection range of submarines destroyers, a little time pursuit, and most importantly damage inflicted by depth charges PL and the accuracy of their falling into the PL?

to reduce the detection range adjust the difficulty levels (init.aix file). For the rest requires hex editing files.

[SashaKA001]

to reduce the detection range adjust the difficulty levels (init.aix file). For the rest requires hex editing files.

I understand there needs to be changed, yes or no

# needs to be <= sim.cfg [AI detection] Lost Contact Time (in seconds)
# this is the time that if a unit is a director and the contact lost time >
# MAX_CONTACT_LOST_DC_TIME it waits until contact lost time is this value before
# heading back to convoy and following it's waypoints (not part of HK group)
DIRECTOR_DISTANCE_FROM_CONTACT = 750.0;
DIRECTOR_SETUP_SPEED = 0.5;
DIRECTOR_SEARCH_TIME = 900.0; # 15 mins

thanks, me so much, just asking to learn how to reduce. and all.

[Fearless]

IRAI seems to work great for me. I had DDs looking for me and dropping DCs for nearly 8 hours. Thank god I'm in mid 1940 :cool:

[Frantic8882]

Do destroyers run out of DC´s after some time?

[Fearless]

Do destroyers run out of DC´s after some time?

That I'm not sure of. In real life they did.

[W_clear]

Hi.TDW.

I found a mistake in your MOD，Please look at PIC，When I set the AI destroyer's waypoint 3 loop point to waypoint 1,Destroyers should not be deleted in the last waypoint. The same mission： destroyer will be deleted at last point，AI destroyers are no longer loop point when use your IRAI MOD，
Can you remove this bug? Thanks！:salute:


http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101013/20101013_4108c5015b5eed7373b5WbQRKQZe7Y9o.jpg

[[501]Otto]

You can´t run, you can´t hide... this is hell, man :damn::damn:
Thx for your great job, TDW.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.27 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

The sonarman should be a little better now at detecting contacts.

[W_clear]

v0.0.27 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

The sonarman should be a little better now at detecting contacts.
Hi TDW
I tested it a n with the same simple mission。1.2 version of the AI destroyers can fire DC accurately aligned SUB ，But your AI has to bypass the SUB 。I Upload this simple mission to you for test. Please feel anti-submarine capability of 1.2 version 。Then test your AI。Thanks。

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2895932/Data.rar.html
(http://www.file-upload.net/download-2895906/Data.rar.html)

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

IRAI seems to be a bit unrealistic. I'm in a Type V!!B in 1939 at a depth of 90m at 2 knots silent running and still DDs can pinpoint me. In fact there seems to be a lot of escorts in 1939. I thought they didn't have so many for convoys. But there should be a balance as these uber destroyers is a bit too much. Everytime one pics me up I end up dead.:cry:

[TheDarkWraith]

IRAI seems to be a bit unrealistic. I'm in a Type V!!B in 1939 at a depth of 90m at 2 knots silent running and still DDs can pinpoint me. In fact there seems to be a lot of escorts in 1939. I thought they didn't have so many for convoys. But there should be a balance as these uber destroyers is a bit too much. Everytime one pics me up I end up dead.:cry:

if you have the difficulty settings set to 1.0 then yes, IRAI is VERY hard. I do not control the number of escorts spawned with convoys - that is game controlled.

I suggest you adjust the difficulty settings to find a setting to your liking (\data\Scripts\AI\init.aix):

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

What do you suggest to strike a balance? I don't want it too easy.

[TheDarkWraith]

What do you suggest to strike a balance? I don't want it too easy.

1.0 to 0.95 would be considered Very hard difficulty
0.95 to 0.9 would be considered Hard difficulty
0.9 to 0.8 would be considered Medium hard difficulty
0.8 to 0.7 would be considered Medium difficulty

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Thanks TDW.:)

[W_clear]

Read@ DavyJonesFootlocker the feedback, I compiled a convoy mission for test AI again,
Very sorry,:timeout: AI v0.0.27 still stupid in this mission，I do not understand @ DavyJonesFootlocker said。

http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101018/20101018_45c90aef5c0d5dd8c1c4AAhiGPhPbqO2.jpg

[TheDarkWraith]

are you saying they are too good/clever? Being Elite units they will be VERY hard to hide/get away from. As I recommended to someone else here adjust your difficulty settings. A difficulty setting of 1.0 means you are in for one hell of an encounter and most likely won't survive with Elite units.

[W_clear]

are you saying they are too good/clever? Being Elite units they will be VERY hard to hide/get away from. As I recommended to someone else here adjust your difficulty settings. A difficulty setting of 1.0 means you are in for one hell of an encounter and most likely won't survive with Elite units.
Sor ry 。I have a mistake. Do not use your AIv0.0.27-MOD for test,Still into my AI MOD


Please test this mission。
http://www.file-upload.net/download-2898604/Data.rar.html

[Zedi]

Quoting from another topic

...The speed change is small based on damage to avoid instant decelerations.

How is possible that single merchants are slowing down to 3 knts in just few seconds after they got hit? They do that even if the torpedo missed and they have no intention to evade. Every fist torpedo is a miss because of that, soon as they spot the torpedo, they just slow down and almost halt.

[[501]Otto]

1.0 to 0.95 would be considered Very hard difficulty
0.95 to 0.9 would be considered Hard difficulty
0.9 to 0.8 would be considered Medium hard difficulty
0.8 to 0.7 would be considered Medium difficulty
After been playing since IRAI 0.023 with 1.0 difficulty, I tweaked it to 0.8, and I felt something missing....it was very easy :D:D. Now I am testing it on 0.9 and it feels perfect; I mean, it is hard but at least you have a chance to survive :D:D (Talking about non merchant ships)
Thanks, TDW :yeah:

[flymar]

0.027 - and 'Damage assesment' on top of it.
Large convoy spotted. ...teen ships and 4 DD. 1DD sunk. 4-5 merchant sunk. get into surface. 2 DD and 3 merchs destroyed by deck gun.
Absolutely no reactions from DD. After all of it the convoy formation is a mess, like the flock of sheeps when they smell the wolf. But they are not trying to zig-zag or even change speed. I wonder if it's normal or my mods are messed up and conflicting. I see you wrote above about direct difficulty change. Where can I change it? What exacty does it do?

[Arclight]

Damage Assessment is not compatible with IRAI, they are both AI mods. The overwrite warning in JSGME should be enough of a clue to that. :-?

[flymar]

Damage Assessment is not compatible with IRAI, they are both AI mods. The overwrite warning in JSGME should be enough of a clue to that. :-?
Thank you for the info. I know what the JSGME messages are for, but I know also in case of some mods it's normal to overwrite something. I'll try one of the above mentioned. Thanks.

EDIT: Disabled DA. Went to a patrol. Convoy, 6 DDs. One of them saw me slightly beyond visibility circle - that's nice. All of the destroyers joined. I was hiding for some time at 100-120 meters but it didn't work. So I went to periscope depth and one of them put a charge on my head and rammed me. Then I stuck at about 25 meters with electric and diesels destroyed. I've decided for a suicide ride and did emergency surface. In the shootout the 3 of the DDs were destroyed by my deck gun but others were on my 6 and the guys couldn't shoot them. Overall... nice to see the allies wary and persistent on S&D. I haven't seen this in vanila so thank you all for this mod:)

[THE_MASK]

Would it be possible to have a random generated Difficulty parameters everytime you restart the game .
Example :
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0; Random between 0.8 and 1.0
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0; Random between 0.8 and 1.0
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0; Random between 0.8 and 1.0
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0; Random between 0.8 and 1.0

and also randomly selects which parameters change and which ones stay the same from game restart .

example:
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.9;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.94;

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 9.2;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 8.1;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 9.9;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 9.7;

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 8.8;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;

[TheDarkWraith]

Would it be possible to have a random generated Difficulty parameters everytime you restart the game .

interesting idea :hmmm: I would have to implement such a thing through an application (sort of like an SHCommander thing from SH3) as I cannot put conditional statements in the crewstate AI. The app would be easy enough to write and make...I'll give it a go and send it to ya for testing when it's done :up:

EDIT:

or I define a new value in the init.aix that let's you define the amount of change (%) that can be applied to the base amount. There would be a min and max % change value.....think I'll go this route as it would allow completely different random values each time you started a new mission with the same game (i.e. not quitting the game but after ending patrol you select another mission)

EDIT2:

this % change is the way to go as EACH ship is given a 'copy' of this file and thus each ship would have completely different random values instead of just one base value. I LIKE IT!! Have to test it as I see one possible problem with this approach...

[Sepp von Ch.]

That sounds interesting:yep:!

[TheDarkWraith]

That sounds interesting:yep:!

I've taken the idea above to a (possible) whole new level :D I'm coding it now and if it works it will be a quantum leap for IRAI :DL

I'm coding in watch rotations and fatigue for the ship AI.

Here's the idea:

A watch rotation shift will be defined in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix that lets you define the ship's watch rotation (in minutes). At some random time between 0.25 and 0.75 of that defined watch rotation fatigue will set in. Fatigue will reduce each AI sensor's sensor effectiveness some random amount. i.e.:

ShipWatchRotation = 4; # in hours
ShipFatigueMin = 0.25; # min time of ShipWatchRotation when fatigue starts
ShipFatigueMax = 0.75; # max time of ShipWatchRotation when fatigue starts
ShipFatigueSensorReductionMin = 0.0; # min sensor reduction amount for fatigue
ShipFatigueSensorReductionMax = 0.1; # max sensor reduction amount for fatigue

the formula for calculating when fatigue sets in is:

fatiguetime = ShipWatchRotation * Random(ShipFatigueMin, ShipFatigueMax)

the formula for calculating fatigue sensor reduction is:

(sensor base value * sensor difficulty level) - Random(ShipFatigueSensorReductionMin, ShipFatigueSensorReductionMax)

then the next 'watch rotation' starts at:

ShipWatchRotation - fatiguetime


If this works (cross your fingers!) then this will add a whole new dynamic to the ship AI.

The thing to realize is EACH ship will act differently as they each get a copy of this file in game :rock:

[Zedi]

...
If this works (cross your fingers!) then this will add a whole new dynamic to the ship AI.
...
I do on booth hand. This can finally level up the quality of SH5 and make it way better than any of the previous versions. Yey!

[TheDarkWraith]

It works :rock::rock:

but the change in the sensors is very abrupt (expected) when fatigue set in. So now I'm going to try and make fatigue be a gradual thing. Fatigue will cause the sensor effectiveness to start decreasing from start of watch to end of watch. When new watch crew comes on sensor effeciveness goes back to base value * difficulty level and starts decreasing with time again. This may not be possible to do...Coding and testing change now....

[[501]Otto]

It works :rock::rock:

but the change in the sensors is very abrupt (expected) when fatigue set in. So now I'm going to make fatigue be a gradual thing. Fatigue will cause the sensor effectiveness to start decreasing from start of watch to end of watch. When new watch crew comes on sensor effeciveness goes back to base value * difficulty level and starts decreasing with time again. Coding and testing change now....
Great news :up: Will make it much more real.
BTW, don´t know if this has something to do with this mod, but is it possible to limit the number of depth charges that each destructor has to a fixed number? I mean, sometimes those DD´s hunt you for hours and they seem to have millions of depth charges, they never end...:damn: Maybe it is just me feeling the combat stress :D:D, but I just feel amazed of the quantity of ammunition that those dammed escorts can throw to you :o

[TheDarkWraith]

well, as I thought, there's no way to implement a gradual sensor effectiveness decrease :cry:

So I'll implement a stepped decrease over 4 time periods (4 tiers of fatigue). The time periods will be random based on ShipWatchRotation / 4. Each time period (tier) will decrease the sensor effectiveness some random amount. This also makes the watch rotation a random period of time which is good (now when the current watch finishes the 4th tier of fatigue they're too tired to continue their watch duties so a new watch team will step in) :D Coding and testing now....

[TheDarkWraith]

4 tiers of fatigue works like a charm along with watch crew rotations :rock:

Now this is awesome....simply awesome. The dynamics of it are just amazing.

I'm making 4 levels of fatigue reduction:
- cruise
- alert
- damaged
- damaged alert

In cruise fatigue will set in very slow rate. In alert fatigue will set in medium rate. In damaged fatigue will set in fast rate. In damaged alert fatigue will set in very fast rate. This way if you damage a ship it will fatigue faster and thus after time it will be easier for you to either sneak up on it or get away from it (until the next watch crew comes on).

NOTE: everytime the ship AI changes state (alert, cruise, damaged, etc.) a new watch crew will take watch (thus no fatigue at start)

Also to note is that each sensor fatigues on it's own. All the ship's sensors don't fatigue the same amount each tier interval - they fatigue their own random amount. Couple that with each ship fatigues totally different from each other ship and it's truely dynamic :rock:

[SashaKA001]

Otto;1523171']Great news :up: Will make it much more real.
BTW, don´t know if this has something to do with this mod, but is it possible to limit the number of depth charges that each destructor has to a fixed number? I mean, sometimes those DD´s hunt you for hours and they seem to have millions of depth charges, they never end...:damn: Maybe it is just me feeling the combat stress :D:D, but I just feel amazed of the quantity of ammunition that those dammed escorts can throw to you :o

No, they have a limit. Within 4 hours they fell and I was bombarded by depth charges, my depth of 127 meters from the start was 8 or 10 destroyers, then 5, then there were 3, and then they were gone, so they have a limit of depth charges.
And I was not injured.:yeah::yeah::yeah:

http://i3.imageban.ru/out/2010/10/28/31c194013e5beaf6b3e2e79034aa0df2.jpg (http://imageban.ru)
http://i4.imageban.ru/out/2010/10/28/9e7fdf5f4ea99f90a1a5d1e78bfe988b.jpg (http://imageban.ru)
http://i4.imageban.ru/out/2010/10/28/2991233db9135ed6c98228c9d08c8378.jpg (http://imageban.ru)

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.28 is working good. Will probably need some tweaking of the new values added for the watch crews and fatigue. We'll see how you all like it when I release it (here shortly).

Now I need to explain some things about the new additions for the ship AI:

there is a base watch crew time (in minutes) for each ship:
ShipWatchRotation = 180;

every ship starts with crew with no fatigue. It then determines the time before the first fatigue level by:

intervalTimeCP = (ShipWatchRotation + Ship:Random( -( ShipWatchRotation * 0.25 ), ShipWatchRotation * 0.25 ) ) / 4.0;

this says take the 180 and add a random value somewhere between -25% and +25% of 180 to it and then divide the result by 4. This gives the time before the 1st fatigue level

every ship then determines it's own fatigue levels (4 of them). Each fatigue level determines it's time by:
intervalTimeCP = (ShipWatchRotation + Ship:Random( -( ShipWatchRotation * 0.25 ), ShipWatchRotation * 0.25 ) ) / 4.0;

this says take the 180 and add a random value somewhere between -25% and +25% of 180 to it and then divide the result by 4. This gives the fatigue level time. This repeats 3 more times

after the 4th fatigue level the watch crew is relieved by a 'fresh' watch crew with no fatigue.

Now as each fatigue level is attained, each sensor of the ship will degrade in performance some random amount (simulating fatigue). Each sensor degrades it's own random amount.

All of this makes for a truly random ship AI. You can be stalking a ship thinking you're at safe distance only to find that it changes watch crew and now you're detected! The vice versa is also true: you might be hunted by an escort and over time as fatigue sets in it may 'lose' contact with you allowing you to escape.

Everytime the ship changes state (cruise, alert, damaged, etc.) the watch crew is relieved by a fresh crew with no fatigue.

I'll have v0.0.28 available for download here very shortly :|\\

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.28 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

NOTE: because of the new features of fatigue and crew watch rotations for the ship AI it is recommended to leave all the difficulty levels at 1.0

[heisig1958]

Hallo TDW,
super Job, Danke.
Ralf:salute:

[tonschk]

WOW , this is incredible :DL, Thank you a LOT :woot: TheDarkWraith :rock:

[THE_MASK]

Glad you thought of it .

[flymar]

Everytime the ship changes state (cruise, alert, damaged, etc.) the watch crew is relieved by a fresh crew with no fatigue.

What is the rate of the status change? I'm curious if the ship cen get cruise-->alert-->damage-->alert-->cruise path like in 5 minutes. I don't know if resetting fatigues in such situation is right.

[Sepp von Ch.]

Incredible! Great! Thank you very much TDW!!! Even the new merchant ships in SH5, mines, nets, better traffic in ports and it is a new game!

[TheDarkWraith]

Glad you thought of it .

Well your idea of making random values for the sensor effectiveness spurred it. I was playing around with that trying to make it work and stumbled upon, by accident, a way to persist a value across time. The rest is history :DL

[TheDarkWraith]

What is the rate of the status change? I'm curious if the ship cen get cruise-->alert-->damage-->alert-->cruise path like in 5 minutes. I don't know if resetting fatigues in such situation is right.

can't happen in 5 minutes.
Let's say the enemy is cruising along following waypoints. At this point it's in cruise state (barring no damage to it). Let's say the enemy detects a contact. At this point they switch to Alert state and hunt the contact. From IRAI's \data\Cfg\Sim.cfg:

Lost contact time=20

This means that when the enemy loses contact with the contact it will continue 'looking' for it for 20 minutes before giving up. It also means that any other enemies within 20 minutes distance to the contact will also respond to the 'hunt'.

Now let's say that during the hunt the enemy sustains enough damage to switch to damaged alert state. The time between alert state and damaged alert state is random because it depends on the enemy taking damage above a certain level. Once in damaged alert state it cannot go back to alert state ever again (the game doesn't allow the enemy to repair itself like we can with our sub).

I'm curious: now due to fatigue are you able to 'slip away' from the enemy once detected after long periods of time? :06:

[7thSeal]

I was playing around with that trying to make it work and stumbled upon, by accident, a way to persist a value across time. The rest is history :DL

Well that's one heck of a discovery that will add even more random AI reactions. Haven't tried this version yet but dling now and certainly looking forward to giving it a go, good stuff coming along with this game every time I drop by the forum reading the updates. I need to grab the updated Environment mod by W_clear as well. :yep:

[flymar]

I have a strange feeling that the DD are too much nerfed. I've noticed that below 46 meters their hydrophones are almost gone. Just look at my speed below. Next task force, I was at periscope with aread flank and no hydrophone yellow circles. Need to recheck it. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10471723/SH5Img%402010-10-28_18.31.41.JPG

[TheDarkWraith]

it's one of several things:

- either the AI crew is very low quality (poor, competent, or novice) and/or
- they currently have high fatigue. Give it some time (game hours) and see if their ability to detect you doesn't increase and/or
- your in their low sensor effectivess ring (they have maximum ability to detect you in front of them in arc. To the sides and back their ability decreases) and/or
- the surface area your presenting to the sensor is small and/or
- could be many, many other things. IRAI is way too dynamic!

I tried some of the single missions and dove to depths of 100m+ and everything appears to be working correctly.

[PL_Andrev]

Played historical mission "Fate of U-110" with:
IRAI.0.28 + FX.0.5 + Env.4.3 + 100% real

Used tactic:
Flank speed + obs periscope at surface all time

The escort ships are not aggressive. Both of them completely do not attack me (especially corvette). One DD "try" to attack but does not try to ramming me (periscope at surface all time) or swim over my position.
DD swims "near me" only / close to me and depth charges give me any damages. Strange thing - DD does not shoot guns to me (to my periscope).

[TheDarkWraith]

Played historical mission "Fate of U-110" with:
IRAI.0.28 + FX.0.5 + Env.4.3 + 100% real

Used tactic:
Flank speed + obs periscope at surface all time

The escort ships are not aggressive. Both of them completely do not attack me (especially corvette). One DD "try" to attack but does not try to ramming me (periscope at surface all time) or swim over my position.
DD swims "near me" only / close to me and depth charges give me any damages. Strange thing - DD does not shoot guns to me (to my periscope).

it's quite possible that we need to tweak the new values included with v0.0.28. Try adjusting these values in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix:

ShipFatigueSensorReductionCruiseMin = 0.015; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
ShipFatigueSensorReductionCruiseMax = 0.03; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
ShipFatigueSensorReductionAlertMin = 0.025; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
ShipFatigueSensorReductionAlertMax = 0.05; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
ShipFatigueSensorReductionDamagedMin = 0.035; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
ShipFatigueSensorReductionDamagedMax = 0.07; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
ShipFatigueSensorReductionDamagedAlertMin = 0.045; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
ShipFatigueSensorReductionDamagedAlertMax = 0.09; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged

every time the ship enters into a new fatigue level a random value between xMin and xMax above is subtracted from their sensor effectiveness. Try adjusting the min and max values to smaller values. Once the 4th tier of fatigue is completed the sensor effectiveness is set back to it's full value (new watch crew) until fatigue sets in again.

[TheDarkWraith]

Played historical mission "Fate of U-110" with:
IRAI.0.28 + FX.0.5 + Env.4.3 + 100% real

Used tactic:
Flank speed + obs periscope at surface all time

The escort ships are not aggressive. Both of them completely do not attack me (especially corvette). One DD "try" to attack but does not try to ramming me (periscope at surface all time) or swim over my position.
DD swims "near me" only / close to me and depth charges give me any damages. Strange thing - DD does not shoot guns to me (to my periscope).

rethinking this here: as a submerged sub with periscope up you are classified as an unknown contact to the AI. Now a surface contact (like a ship) can be classified as Unknown by the AI also if it hasn't visually contacted it. So, to be safe, what I did was have the AI go to a position some random distance away from the contact and basically follow it. If they lose contact with you then they will spiral search for you.

Now why they aren't firing guns at your periscope sounds like a game bug. I don't inhibit cannon firing at anytime. The AI is always allowed to fire guns whenever they want.

So this sounds like to me that the game classified your sub as an unknown but it knows you are submerged and thus has inhibited the AI from firing guns at you. It wants the AI to DC you instead.......:hmmm:

I'll make a test version for you here soon to test something for me :DL

[flymar]

One Tribal did fire on my periscope. 2 DDs were going around me and even get very close to me (periscope view was IN the 3d object) but no ramming damage. Later one of the DDs saw me near the end of his vision range (good weather) and I went for 1 on 1 chicken game, with guns. he lost but my hull went down to 59%. But still I can disappear at 46 meters - first patrol in Mad Sea.

[PL_Andrev]

So this sounds like to me that the game classified your sub as an unknown but it knows you are submerged and thus has inhibited the AI from firing guns at you. It wants the AI to DC you instead.......:hmmm:

To replace my test: run "Fate of U-110" mission, full ahead with periscope into left DD. It looks like DD avoids my position / my periscope.
Maybe that is OK, but DD should use side's DC putters or torpedoes...

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.29 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[PL_Andrev]

Tested mission:
Historical mission / The fate of U-110

Installed mods:
IRAI.0.29 (complete) + FX_Update.0.5 + Environmental.4.301

All images are captured with AI sub: Lemp's U-110:

1. Lemp is run with full speed. DDs are detect him (DD changes course) but no update course with current Lemp's position.
1a. Lemp have almost perfect position to shoot. He doesn't shot.

2. Lemp is surfacing (why?), but after first hits he goes into deep. DD should know his real position and probably course...

3. But they looking for him at his first position when he was detected previously!

It looks that enemy sub is detected at point XY, and all escort ships are looking for him near XY point, with ignoring / no reaction with other (or this same) contact.

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/700/lemp4.jpg

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I also notice if you surface the DDs won't shoot at you unless you shoot first.:06:

[PL_Andrev]

Checked the escort ships in this mission: all competent with defensive tactics.

With IRAI.0.29 the attacking DD (A&B) does not attack my sub by "ramming my periscope and dropping DC into this position".
When he was on my back, he still avoids my position (keep parallel course to me) and drops DC. Very stupid.

About shooting: A&B class in this mission is very passive with shooting to my ships. Only Flower class corvette is active with good degree.

In this mission are two german subs and three escort ships.
When "attacking" DD is sunk, other (second DD) does not go to my position to attack me.

[PL_Andrev]

Small update (still Fate of U-110):

With mods FX.0.5 + Env.4.301 + IRAI.0.29 I was one time "correctly" attacked by corvette only, which detect me and attack with enter directly over me. But it happens after few circles and her searching position (no contact by X time or no new waypoints).

[TheDarkWraith]

Small update (still Fate of U-110):

With mods FX.0.5 + Env.4.301 + IRAI.0.29 I was one time "correctly" attacked by corvette only, which detect me and attack with enter directly over me. But it happens after few circles and her searching position (no contact by X time or no new waypoints).

this is good :yeah: The changes I made in v0.0.29 are working then :DL

[Reece]

I think the main problem is getting the mods in the correct order, this is where a super mod would be great or a list of recommended mods in the correct order,:yep: however since there are so many it would be a daunting if not impossible task.:doh: who's mod do you favor over another!!:oops::dead:

[W_clear]

Hi Mr TDW:salute:
I have tested your IRAI.0.29

AI still does not solve the problem, see screenshot，Destroyer still can't found the submarine , 5 minutes later, DD is still not found the submarine。At that time the submarine is underwater 40M. Speed of 4 knots。

Original SH5 AI will soon find submarines, you want to AI become weak? Or want to change the hardware?At least your IRAI's AI weaker .
http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101030/20101030_84354797fb35f3106a61bFm9TLdTIApS.jpg


http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101030/20101030_fcd3575d2e452d4e2d23SkevqZomojGR.jpg


http://bbsimg.ali213.net/attachments/day_101030/20101030_b47161ff836ca045042aJcf1P1CL19OW.jpg

[Zedi]

TDW, can you please list the load order for your mods combined with Enviro mod? I'm interested in the load order for IRAI, FX with UHS fix and Enviro Mod. I have the feeling that I miss a lot of things that these mods had to offer just because they are not compatible with each other :|

[PL_Andrev]

Its looks now like:
1. sub is detected with XY1 position and DD try to investigate this point
2. sub is detected with XY2 position but DD are still investigating previous point

Maybe the better tactics is:
1. sub is detected with XY1 position and DD1 try to investigate this point
2. new sub contact is detected closer than 3km from XY1 - DD1 delete last tactics and try to attack new contact
3. new sub contact is detected farther than 3km from XY1 (at XY2) - DD1 is looking for sub in last position, new contact at XY2 is investigating with DD2
This tactics can be useful with mulisub detections (f.e. Fate of U-110)

Note1:
At SH4 after contact detecting the DDs are looking for sub by zig-zaging to check bigger area than by straight course, and avoid possible torpedoes.

Note2:
If DD is detecting the sub with visual sensors (on surface / periscope on surface) is better to use maximum speed to catch the target before sub change highly depth and position. Now the maximum speed for DD is limited to 14kt.
In last test DD try to attack me by pursuing my sub when I was submerged (my speed 7.5kt, DD's: 14) and it takes many many time (I could change highly my depth).
___________________________

Could you describe differences between level of escort
and between aggressive and defensive tactics?

[303_Michcich]

TDW, is IRAI 0.29 still compatible with BARF - if so, what is the mod loadout mode ? BARF + FX_update+ENV. 4.3 + IRAI 0.29 ?

[Zedi]

TDW, can you please list the load order for your mods combined with Enviro mod? I'm interested in the load order for IRAI, FX with UHS fix and Enviro Mod. I have the feeling that I miss a lot of things that these mods had to offer just because they are not compatible with each other :|

Bump

[TheDarkWraith]

Bump

see the Mega-Mod thread post #1. I've listed the mods used in it along with the order they are in (some require editing to work with others when JSGME says conflicts exist).

[Weather-guesser]

Hey TDW...Any chance if you have the time, you could update the movie file making a torpedo run on a sub? Dying to see it but keep getting an error message from Filefront when accessing it. Thanks :doh:

[THE_MASK]

Excuse me please dark one . Is the AI sub hydrophone fix included in this mod . Thankyou .

[TheDarkWraith]

Excuse me please dark one . Is the AI sub hydrophone fix included in this mod . Thankyou .

yep

[Madox58]

If you mean the fix that stops the crash when trying to listen to the AI Subs?
It's not listed in the documentation.
Nor are any credits.
:hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

If you mean the fix that stops the crash when trying to listen to the AI Subs?
It's not listed in the documentation.
Nor are any credits.
:hmmm:

oh you're talking about that one. No it's not part of the mod.

[Madox58]

Thanks for the clarification.
:yep:

[PL_Andrev]

First I'm not modder and do not know the game/file works and what is possible.

#1:
I have proposal how to prepare DD or CL/CA to torpedo firing.

If I remember correctly TDW told that DD has no torpedo controller to reload/fire torpedoes (but maybe Elanaiba/Dan can help to add it?).
But our community friends did it for SH3 at their 'warship mod'. In their solution the playable elco/DD was a real submarine with no submerging possibility and with DD shape.
Of course this model is not perfect: only human can attack with torpedoes and the torpedo shoot is possible from bow only like on this film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t64tz5GXXEw

Now in SH5 the AI submarines can shoot the torpedoes - but with DD shape, with no submerging possibility and re-rescipting it can be real DD with torpedo firing (for example if periscope is spotted at close distance).

The question is: is it possible especially "in theory"?

#2:
I'm not happy how the IRAI works - some strategies need to be updated (for example sub detection by passive hydrophone, fast speed to catch the contact on surface or strange behaviour of DD when sub is on the periscope depth).

The question: maybe the community should start open discussion on the DD/SUB tactics as IF-THEN conditions?
It can be helpful to TDW to prepare better AI for SUB or DD, but I don't know script build as IF-THEN parameters will be useful for TDW.

[Trevally.]

strange behaviour of DD when sub is on the periscope depth


I am sorry if I am wrong with this, but didnt this issue start about midway through the development of this mod.

DDs on a depthcharge run against a sub at shallow depth would damage themselves. (Due to depthcharge to close.)
The fix for this was - do not drop depthcharge is sub is shallow.

If this was replaced by - DD on shallow DC run must be at max speed. Therefore being further away from DC.:hmmm:

[7thSeal]

I am sorry if I am wrong with this, but didnt this issue start about midway through the development of this mod.

DDs on a depthcharge run against a sub at shallow depth would damage themselves. (Due to depthcharge to close.)
The fix for this was - do not drop depthcharge is sub is shallow.

If this was replaced by - DD on shallow DC run must be at max speed. Therefore being further away from DC.:hmmm:

Yeah if I'm not mistaken TDW made the DC range for damage larger so that the sub might actually take damage but the downside was the DD blowing themselves up on shallow runs due to the more powerful DC. I guess lowering the DC damage back down would help out the DD but then you're back to getting DC dropped on you but never taking any damage from them.

[Rickster1]

DW, many thanks for you great Mods, just a question about escort behaviour (v29) in campaign when attacking a convoy if I am detected all the escorts will then come and attack me and stay doing so for hours, having read so many books on the Atlantic war and they did not seem to do this ie. some of the escorts would stay with the convoy?

[TheDarkWraith]

DW, many thanks for you great Mods, just a question about escort behaviour (v29) in campaign when attacking a convoy if I am detected all the escorts will then come and attack me and stay doing so for hours, having read so many books on the Atlantic war and they did not seem to do this ie. some of the escorts would stay with the convoy?

some escorts will stay with the convoy

[divittor]

I've been using this add on that comes with your mod TDW and have been getting no sound contacts at periscope depth (say 10/15m).I had to go down below 20m for the hydrophone guy to start reporting contacts.
I switched to your UI version included with your UI mod package and reports come in as soon as I'm at periscope depth. Thought I'd report it to you.

The in game action with IRAI is great. Whilst starting out on patrol from France I encountered a German freighter and sailed along side for a while.
Three Beaufort torpedo planes were spotted and came in to attack the freighter. A very intense battle ensued with my boat shooting down 2 of the planes and the freighter getting the 3rd. My boat sustained slight damage and unfortunately the freighter took a torpedo.This type of game play is exactly what I've been looking for in SH5:rock:

[Rickster1]

my last meeting with a convoy protected by 5 escorts all 5 came after me for about 10 game hours

[TheDarkWraith]

my last meeting with a convoy protected by 5 escorts all 5 came after me for about 10 game hours

that tells me that an HK group was with the convoy then. The convoy itself had no escorts. There's an easy way to tell if a convoy has escorts escorting it or not. If there isn't an escort 'leading' the convoy then it's an HK group with the convoy.

[tonschk]

Good to know :DL, Thank you TheDarkWraith :rock:

[Rickster1]

But surely even one or more of the HK group would stay with the convoy it was unprotected. sorry to be such a pain !

[TheDarkWraith]

But surely even one or more of the HK group would stay with the convoy it was unprotected. sorry to be such a pain !

that defeats the purpose and meaning of HK groups - Hunter/Killer groups. They hunt/kill, they don't protect.

[DKSIMONS]

How do I know if this installed correctly. I have other mods that I have installed but I dont think this one is working. I see planes and they never attack...but it is early 1939 still.
Does that matter?
Does this still need a double mod folder to work? If so it is different then than the other installed mods?

[DKSIMONS]

How do I know if this installed correctly. I have other mods that I have installed but I dont think this one is working. I see planes and they never attack...but it is early 1939 still.
Does that matter?
Does this still need a double mod folder to work? If so it is different then than the other installed mods?

[Sepp von Ch.]

TDW have written:

1) FX_Update
2) New_UIs_TDC_5_1_0_ByTheDarkWraith (ensure you have the patche)
4) IRAI_0_0_26

[rascal101]

Well I have many of the best mods I can find on this forum and it must be said they have made incredible progress with this game

However I'm just not getting some of the stuff folks are referring to here - I've included an active mods list below -

I think the Environment Mod is fixed as I havent had any CTDs for ages - however I'm still not getting any real challenge from the enemy AI, ships or aircraft and I keep coming accross unescorted convoys even in mid 1941

Last night I came accross a huge convoy mid atlantic - it was stationary - a couple of ships milling around but most were stationary in formation - until one destroyer and freighter exited stage left

While they were still within visual distance I started my attack and hit a tanker - so now the fun....didnt start - the destroyer did not come back to investigate, no others came from the convoy to defend - and the rest of the convoy just sat there with no evasive action. To make matters worse - there were no flares, nor secondary explosions - just another ho hum day at the office

Dont get me wrong I'm not criticising this or any other mod. It seems the simple fact is that there are now so many mods required to make the game interesting that its almost pot luck to get them in the right order in order to enjoy the fruits of the modders hard work

I know there is work being done on a Mega Mod and I am inclined to wait for this - at the moment I just cant seem to get the URAI to work nor do I get much luck with FX mods - the Multiple UI's look good but I'm not sure which of these to go for and I want to make sure I get German speech

Can any one look at my mods list an offer any advise, is there any correct order in which to install the mods, or am I missing a crucial mod that would give the game play or AI a bit of a boost

Cerberus62 Additional Merchant Ships 1.0
Cerberus62 Historical Ship Equipment 1.2
Environment 4.5 MOD
EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools for SH5 v. 01.01 by AvM
Loading Screens Mod 2.0
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod
SV&Com Underwater Mod
Wordeees' Actual Footage Menu V2
U-Boat Watch Crew Routine SFX
German U-Boat Hydrophone SFX
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
Unterseeboot SFX
U-Boat Ballast Tanks SFX
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
Old Style Explosions V1.1
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_5_ByTheDarkWraith
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2
AirTorpedoes
ImprovedWaves_Improved Pitch&Roll
BRF 1.3 full
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
Ui-Boat V2.2
sobers ultimate base wave mechanics for SH5

[divittor]

Hi rascal,
SH5 was my first experience of adding Mods to a subsim and I had real trouble activating TheDarkWraiths Mods. I had already set up JSGME and placed a MODS folder in SH5 directory. When I downloaded these Mods and unzipped them and placed them in the MODS folder I didn't realize that TDW had already placed them in a folder named MODS of his own. Hence they didn't activate because the path had MODS in it twice. Hope this makes sense.
Your describing game play that sounds like the Mods haven't activated.

I just went into TDW's Mod's folder and added the Mods to JSGME from there,one path lower than TDW,s folder Headed MODS.

I am in no way very adept in these things but I hope this helps.

[SashaKA001]

Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_5_ByTheDarkWraith


you need to put these two fashion revolution
2). IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith
1). FX_Update_0_0_5_ByTheDarkWraith

[rascal101]

Thanks for the suggested fixes I have changed the order and hope this will make some difference - however no one has commented on my main problem which is basically the lack of significant challenge by the escort AI

Does anyone know from the mod list posted previously why other folks say they are being attacked and activly hunted by the escorts, yet I just dont seem to excite any interest from the destroyers, no matter how many ships I sink

I do have a couple of unactivated mods:
The Elite Campaign 1.1
Killer AI V1.02
Haramirs Escort Self Awareness Mod 1.1
Does any one reccommend any of these or should my currently activated be providing enough challenge, in which case there is something wrong

Regards to all

Rascal

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks for the suggested fixes I have changed the order and hope this will make some difference - however no one has commented on my main problem which is basically the lack of significant challenge by the escort AI

Does anyone know from the mod list posted previously why other folks say they are being attacked and activly hunted by the escorts, yet I just dont seem to excite any interest from the destroyers, no matter how many ships I sink

I do have a couple of unactivated mods:
The Elite Campaign 1.1
Killer AI V1.02
Haramirs Escort Self Awareness Mod 1.1
Does any one reccommend any of these or should my currently activated be providing enough challenge, in which case there is something wrong

Regards to all

Rascal

IRAI alone is hard enough. Did you extract the MODS folder out of IRAI and place in your \Silent Hunter 5\ folder? You just can't unzip IRAI to your MODS folder.

[SashaKA001]

Thanks for the suggested fixes I have changed the order and hope this will make some difference - however no one has commented on my main problem which is basically the lack of significant challenge by the escort AI

Does anyone know from the mod list posted previously why other folks say they are being attacked and activly hunted by the escorts, yet I just dont seem to excite any interest from the destroyers, no matter how many ships I sink

I do have a couple of unactivated mods:
The Elite Campaign 1.1
Killer AI V1.02
Haramirs Escort Self Awareness Mod 1.1
Does any one reccommend any of these or should my currently activated be providing enough challenge, in which case there is something wrong

Regards to all

Rascal

believe this will be enough
any fashion
FX_Update_0_0_5_ByTheDarkWraith
any fashion
IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith
any fashion
and the sweet life you will be provided:haha::salute::salute:

[rascal101]

What a difference - Re-started a new career - went off to check out East Coast of UK inshore - was way to relaxed got jumped by two Hurricanes and severely shot up - had to return to base - kept getting jumped by air patrols on the way - now the air patrols mean something! - havnt even seen what happens with surface AI but if the air patrolls are anything to go by this game has just aquired a new lease of life as far as I'm concerned

Well done and thanks

One thing - am still not seeing the flares, red or white - also I noticed one modder has different coloured smoke affect - can this be incorporated as it would be more realistic - white steam when sea water hits the boilers for coal burners would be good

Still not seen secondary explosions after the ship is declared sunk - in SH3 there was a mod where ships would sometimes have secondary exposions even after they were destroyed, I mean still on the suface but sinking, sometimes there were big explosions even after they were going under

Would love to see explosions slowed down - they still seem to flash by too quickly - depth-charges for instances the spalsh seems to go up and down too quick - can explosions be slowed down slightly?

Rascal

[PL_Andrev]

wolfpacks are in SH5 .
1/ Wolfpacks will show only in the campaign when and where they where available historically as far as i am aware .
2/ once you discover an enemy convoy radio in the convoy .
3/ Keep shadowing the convoy until you get friendly subs turn up .
4/ There are single missions with wolfpack available in some mods .
5/ There is a mod available so you can hear AI subs with the hydrophone , cannot remember which one .

Hi TDW,

As you know the one of main problems of SH5 are wolfpacks. I have proposal to solve this issue by script creation to coordinate our uboat with other wolfpack groups.

How should it works:

1) Script checks the position of uboat groups per each hour (see 1st sober's answer). If player is closer than 250 miles then take a order to keep a destination point - current wolfpack position.

2) If player follows the convoy and send a message will have answer about next following 'calculated' time (closest uboat group, see 3rd sober's).
If the closest uboat is 5 mil to player - attack order.

[Petr]

I wanted to try something harder, so I inslaled IRAI.
First time I tried Enhanced funnel smoke test mission: I drew attention of group of three destroyers and one aircraft carrier. I wasnt able to shak them down. I tried everything. They have been hunting me for hours:damn:. Is there a way how to get rid of them?

[7thSeal]

I wanted to try something harder, so I inslaled IRAI.

Is there a way how to get rid of them?


Lol... uninstall?

[[501]Otto]

I wanted to try something harder, so I inslaled IRAI.
First time I tried Enhanced funnel smoke test mission: I drew attention of group of three destroyers and one aircraft carrier. I wasnt able to shak them down. I tried everything. They have been hunting me for hours:damn:. Is there a way how to get rid of them?

Go deeper, go silent, make soft turns and pray :D

[PL_Andrev]

They have been hunting me for hours:damn:. Is there a way how to get rid of them?

This is hunter-killer group specialized to destroy german uboats.
Are you sure that you want to play after black may 1944+ ?
:D

Silent run, 200-220 meters depth, 1 knot only.
After 5 hours you should be 8-9 km away from HK group, safe range for surface and escape at night.

...but wait a minute... have they got a radar?
Are you sure that you want to play after black may 1944+ ?
:rotfl2:

[Hartmann]

This is hunter-killer group specialized to destroy german uboats.
Are you sure that you want to play after black may 1944+ ?
:D

Silent run, 200-220 meters depth, 1 knot only.
After 5 hours you should be 8-9 km away from HK group, safe range for surface and escape at night.

...but wait a minute... have they got a radar?
Are you sure that you want to play after black may 1944+ ?
:rotfl2:

9 km is very far , but not with radar :dead:, the only way could be use a snorkel. humm there are snorkels in Sh5 ? :88)

[TheDarkWraith]

have been trying and trying to get hull damage from DCs with no luck. Going by the way SH3 used to determine if hull damage incurred or not (EF / 4 >= armor level) doesn't seem to work. Maybe elanaiba can shed some light here?? :hmmm:

With the sub having an armor level of 10 I set the MinEF of the DCs to 50 and MinRadius to 15 (to avoid falloff for those close detonations) and did a mission test. I had several DCs explode right next to the sub and incurred no hull damage. What gives?

[PL_Andrev]

I had several DCs explode right next to the sub and incurred no hull damage. What gives?
Depth charges are too small.
or
Submarine hull's armour is too strong.

Did you check it with stock settings?

[Zedi]

TDW, is possible to make a time limit for the HK groups? I mean, 20 hours (or more) of cat &mouse play is way to much for a game. It's realistic, but I dont see anybody able to spend 20 hours of their lifetime into a game trying to dodge some AI that wont give up hunting you. I'm thinking about something like.. if no TC used, set hunt limit to 1 - 2 hours, then loose contact.

[THE_MASK]

TDW, is possible to make a time limit for the HK groups? I mean, 20 hours (or more) of cat &mouse play is way to much for a game. It's realistic, but I dont see anybody able to spend 20 hours of their lifetime into a game trying to dodge some AI that wont give up hunting you. I'm thinking about something like.. if no TC used, set hunt limit to 1 - 2 hours, then loose contact.
What about adjusting this

C:\Users\#####\Documents\SH5 mods\IRAI_0_0_29_TheDarkWraith\IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDa rkWraith\MODS\IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith\data\Scr ipts\AI\init
###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;