[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[Txema]

TheDrakWraith,

You are doing an impressive work with this mod. Very important to make SH5 truly enjoyable. Thank you !!!

Let me ask about your work on the submarine AI: how is it shaping up? Do you think it will be possible to have AI U-boats that attack effectively a convoy with you, producing something similar to a Wolfpack attack?

I know the interaction between the player and the Wolfpack will be limited to reporting the possition of the convoy, but if you do it and AI U-boats arrive to the location will they be able to attack the ships of the convoy effectively??

Crossing my fingers !! :D


Txema

[Slimak81]

AI tactics is great but there is a huge problem with DC barrels , their effectivness is ZERO/ I mean damage and accuracy. I sunk 3 destroyers near london , in 2 hours around 12 destroyers came to investigate and they located me in minutes and started bombing .... for 5 hours they bombed and all in vain , i got some little hull and engine damage . I cant escape them and they cant kill me )))))))))))
7 hours bombing ... oxygen is out *

[TheDarkWraith]

AI tactics is great but there is a huge problem with DC barrels , their effectivness is ZERO/ I mean damage and accuracy. I sunk 3 destroyers near london , in 2 hours around 12 destroyers came to investigate and they located me in minutes and started bombing .... for 5 hours they bombed and all in vain , i got some little hull and engine damage . I cant escape them and they cant kill me )))))))))))
7 hours bombing ... oxygen is out *

then you have some other mod that has modified some files of IRAI's mod. I know the DC barrells are effective in the mod - I set them up with the hex editor and I've tested them many times in game. There are others that will tell you the same thing - DC barrells will do damage. I've been sunk by DCs also.

[Slimak81]

i cant redownload ur mod as link is broken , but I didnt use any mod that changed DC_barrels .
I tried thousand time to increase damage radius and depth accuracy via goblin editor but no visiual changes ((

in fact i set 3000 min damage and explosion radius to 100 but only once i lost 35 % Hull HP when barrel was exactly placed on my sub all other barrels that were just nearby my sub caused almost zero damage (

Can you post somewhere the sim and zone files with more accurate (1 m depth precision or so ) DC barrels that inflict real heavy damage if even explosion nearby ... please

and next question : why destroyers are bombing me endless if i am at depth 40 m and engines off . They just dont go away )

[TheDarkWraith]

i cant redownload ur mod as link is broken , but I didnt use any mod that changed DC_barrels .
I tried thousand time to increase damage radius and depth accuracy via goblin editor but no visiual changes ((

in fact i set 3000 min damage and explosion radius to 100 but only once i lost 35 % Hull HP when barrel was exactly placed on my sub all other barrels that were just nearby my sub caused almost zero damage (

Can you post somewhere the sim and zone files with more accurate (1 m depth precision or so ) DC barrels that inflict real heavy damage if even explosion nearby ... please

and next question : why destroyers are bombing me endless if i am at depth 40 m and engines off . They just dont go away )

are they pinging you?

[Slimak81]

yes , bombing and pinging for several hours (( I cant go deeper then 45 m .

[TheDarkWraith]

yes , bombing and pinging for several hours (( I cant go deeper then 45 m .

well that's why they won't leave - they are pinging you and thus have you 'nailed'

[Slimak81]

well that's why they won't leave - they are pinging you and thus have you 'nailed'

yes , even aviation come at morning and more ships :D

ruturning to barrels : can u upload mini update wth increased damage and accuracy ?

[THE_MASK]

Does SH5 model triangulation ?

[TheDarkWraith]

yes , even aviation come at morning and more ships :D

ruturning to barrels : can u upload mini update wth increased damage and accuracy ?

I will look at increasing the damage done by DCs and the radius of affected area

[Brauner]

I fired a magnetic detonation torpedo 1 m. below a waterline of a tanker this should be enough to brake her back but tanker was floating in a circles for next 10 min. Then I finished her with deck gun.
That's the way should be?

[Slimak81]

Here is now the common situation : I go silent under water 25m / Ahead of me 5 destroyer range 6000-7000 km . I go silent trying go through them ) . They suddenly approach at full speed and start bombing me , very precise i should say .
Ok i go perescope depth knok out one of destroyers and they just go crazy - I cant shake them off . Soon more destroyers come for bombing and more ... and aviation and more destroyers. Am i so bad ? or the jus have super sonars ?

Anyone Knows how to change (increase ) aiming with dc launchers of destroyers ?

[THE_MASK]

Here is now the common situation : I go silent under water 25m / Ahead of me 5 destroyer range 6000-7000 km . I go silent trying go through them ) . They suddenly approach at full speed and start bombing me , very precise i should say .
Ok i go perescope depth knok out one of destroyers and they just go crazy - I cant shake them off . Soon more destroyers come for bombing and more ... and aviation and more destroyers. Am i so bad ? or the jus have super sonars ?

Anyone Knows how to change (increase ) aiming with dc launchers of destroyers ?
As in real life , if you have 25 meters of water under you and 5 destroyers in front you then you are going to die if they detect you .

[Zedi]

The dc damage is not related to the stock bug where the sub has like 2000 hp instead of 200? So the sub is invincible, no matter how much is dc'ed...

[Slimak81]

The dc damage is not related to the stock bug where the sub has like 2000 hp instead of 200? So the sub is invincible, no matter how much is dc'ed...

subs have 250-270 hp and even increasing dc barels damage up to 3000 or whatever more and sphere radius explosion to 100 + give no visible difference (((

[TheDarkWraith]

now that my UIs mod (>v3.8.0) has the ability to filter what the nav map and TAI maps can display I'm spending a lot of time running test missions to learn what all the values in the sim.cfg file do. Once I figure this out this will allow me to make the AI much better. I have some questions though regarding visual range.
I have a test mission using an Elite V&W destroyer due north of me @ 10kms range moving at 5 knots heading straight for me. I am surfaced, at all stop, facing due north also (to provide very little surface area for them to see). Time is midday (sun directly overhead), no clouds, no wind, no waves. At what range should this V&W destroyer be able to spot me?

[Slimak81]

Finally !!! after thousands of testing I managed to make barrels very deadly and accurate at the ranges 15-90 meters .
The first barrel if paced well totally destroys lots of subsystems / second cause heavy flooding and hull damage and the life ends on third well placed .

Some manupulation with sonars and DDs are extrely deadly if cant submrge more than 100 m .
Generally 3-4 destroyers will surely kill a sub in 30-60 minutes and no way to escape except the depth :D

[marleymen]

Write to TDW to tell him your changes. He will be pleased to know them and improve the AI.

[TheBeast]

Finally !!! after thousands of testing I managed to make barrels very deadly and accurate at the ranges 15-90 meters .
The first barrel if paced well totally destroys lots of subsystems / second cause heavy flooding and hull damage and the life ends on third well placed .

Some manupulation with sonars and DDs are extrely deadly if cant submrge more than 100 m .
Generally 3-4 destroyers will surely kill a sub in 30-60 minutes and no way to escape except the depth :D
Have you tried your chanes while using a Anti-Sensor Coating "Alberich" or "Improved Alberich"?

[Slimak81]

Have you tried your chanes while using a Anti-Sensor Coating "Alberich" or "Improved Alberich"?

not yet, its only 1940 )

[Zedi]

now that my UIs mod (>v3.8.0) has the ability to filter what the nav map and TAI maps can display I'm spending a lot of time running test missions to learn what all the values in the sim.cfg file do. Once I figure this out this will allow me to make the AI much better. I have some questions though regarding visual range.
I have a test mission using an Elite V&W destroyer due north of me @ 10kms range moving at 5 knots heading straight for me. I am surfaced, at all stop, facing due north also (to provide very little surface area for them to see). Time is midday (sun directly overhead), no clouds, no wind, no waves. At what range should this V&W destroyer be able to spot me?

I think you should leave the visual range as it was in stock, that was pretty oke. Range depends on a lot of factors, ship height, weather, crew (elite or nubs), sub speed and direction .. it's a pretty delicate balance there. I never felt any trouble with the visual range, but with the AI reaction...

Btw, is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon) is still exist in SH5? I saw it last time in SH3, never since.

[TheDarkWraith]

I think you should leave the visual range as it was in stock, that was pretty oke. Range depends on a lot of factors, ship height, weather, crew (elite or nubs), sub speed and direction .. it's a pretty delicate balance there. I never felt any trouble with the visual range, but with the AI reaction...

Btw, is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon) is still exist in SH5? I saw it last time in SH3, never since.

oh I think you'll like what I've done with the AI's visual now :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

Here's what I've come up so far with the AI visual:

the way I had it before was totally FUBAR! I've spent lots of time testing and come up with these values for an elite escort with sun directly overhead, no fog, no wind, no waves, and sub at surface:

with sub at 90 degrees to escort his visual detection ranges at the following bells are:
0 - 9.8km
2 - 11.7km
5 - 13.0km

with sub at 0 degrees to escort his visual detection ranges at the following bells are:
0 - 5.6km
2 - 7.0km
5 - 8.5km

now I'm adjusting the light, fog, and night variables :DL

[TheBeast]

Here's what I've come up so far with the AI visual:

the way I had it before was totally FUBAR! I've spent lots of time testing and come up with these values for an elite escort with sun directly overhead, no fog, no wind, no waves, and sub at surface:

with sub at 90 degrees to escort his visual detection ranges at the following bells are:
0 - 9.8km
2 - 11.7km
5 - 13.0km

with sub at 0 degrees to escort his visual detection ranges at the following bells are:
0 - 5.6km
2 - 7.0km
5 - 8.5km

now I'm adjusting the light, fog, and night variables :DL

Are the 0 degree and 90 degree values flip flopped? If I am pointing directly at the escort 0 degree, shouldm't I be harder to spot?

[TheDarkWraith]

Are the 0 degree and 90 degree values flip flopped? If I am pointing directly at the escort 0 degree, shouldm't I be harder to spot?

when I say 0 I mean you are pointing at escort.

Here's what the submerged values look like with periscope up:

ordered bell of:
0 - 950m
2 - 1050m
5 - 1700m

So do these values for surfaced and submerged look right or correct? If not, what should they be under the conditions I posted?

[marleymen]

I´m agree with TheBeast.

For example,

1.- If you´re 0 degree to escort (less visible) then you should be visible at 5.6km.
2.- But if you´re 90 degree (more visible ) to escort you should be visible far away, at 9.8km.

Aren´t they flip flopped?

[TheDarkWraith]

Finally done testing and setting up the AI's visual. Wow, some drastic changes. This chart shows the AI's visual performance now (in v0.0.12) versus stock and v0.0.11:


; v0.0.12 gives the following performance figures (Elite unit) (Note: angle 0 means pointing at enemy unit, bell 0 is all stop):
; all values are in Kms
;
; Day surfaced, no wind, no clouds, no fog, no waves
;bell 0 2 5
;angle
;90 9.2 10.4 11.0 (stock 14.8, 14.8, 15.2, IRAI v0.0.11 14.6, 14.6, 15.1)
; 0 6.6 7.9 8.7 (stock 13.7, 13.8, 14.2, IRAI v0.0.11 13.4, 13.4, 14.0)
;
; Day submerged, no wind, no clouds, no fog, no waves
;bell 0 2 5
; 1.6 1.9 2.8 (stock 8.5, 8.5, 9.2, IRAI v0.0.11 7.8, 8.0, 8.7)
;
; Night surfaced, no wind, no clouds, no fog, no waves
;bell 0 2 5
;angle
90 3.7 5.0 5.8 (stock 12.2, 12.2, 12.8, IRAI v0.0.11 12.4, 12.4, 13.1)
; 0 1.9 2.8 3.5 (stock 10.0, 10.0, 10.9, IRAI v0.0.11 10.2, 10.5, 11.4)
;
; Night submerged, no wind, no clouds, no fog, no waves
;bell 0 2 5
; 0.25 0.3 0.5 (stock 2.6, 2.8, 3.3, IRAI v0.0.11 3.3, 3.4, 3.9)


what is important here is the tactics you use to setup your day attack. Aspect plays a big part in detection now and so does having the sun behind you inline with the enemy. Waves are good/bad - good in that when the enemy is in the valley of the wave their detection range goes down - bad in that when the enemy is riding the crest of the wave their detection range goes up. But this up/down has a positive side - it resets the 'timer' used to say they have detected you if you haven't been detected and are right on the outskirts of their detection range. Fog also plays a big part in detection ranges now.
If there's one thing to notice about the chart it's that the enemy's night detection range has been drastically reduced. They no longer have infra-red or night vision scopes anymore :D

[THE_MASK]

Is this AI visual settings on a vanilla game ? Do you have any mods that affect the AI settings ? Why i ask this is because with these mods its pretty spot on .

[TheDarkWraith]

Is this AI visual settings on a vanilla game ? Do you have any mods that affect the AI settings ?

don't understand what you're asking.

Also just changed the way the ship's speed is determined vs damage. As the ships accrue damage their speed will decrease according to the amount of damage they have :DL

No magic skills I'm not familiar with. The settings in the chart are the maximum AI visual detection ranges based on an Elite unit (that chart does not affect your crew AI)

[Krauter]

Does this Mod create challenging AI or just adds more options for them to use?

[TheDarkWraith]

Does this Mod create challenging AI or just adds more options for them to use?

definitely more challenging :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.12 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[Turtle01]

Great :yeah:and a big big thank you TDW !

Greets
Turtle

[Slimak81]

Can anyone reupload it to mediafire or whatever ? trobles with downloading (

[Zedi]

...Waves are good/bad - good in that when the enemy is in the valley of the wave their detection range goes down - bad in that when the enemy is riding the crest of the wave their detection range goes up.
...
This part is very impressive, but ... on high waves, even if the sky is clear and sunny, the visibility should reduce very much. If my ship is popping up and down due to high waves, it should be very hard to track down targets at far distance. For example, on 100% realism I can't use the uzo, its just impossible. Only binoculars and even with those is hard to leep track of a distant target. Luck that I have an uber crew who dont have any issues uzing the uzo on stormy weather. Of course, depends on ship type because a BB should not have major problems riding smooth on high waves, but a small DD...

Personally I find it extremely hard to spot a sub on a wavy sea, the crew should be in a constant alert and no eye fatigue. I remember a documentary about Titanic's watch crew and how hard their life was when they had to stay for hours in a harsh cold weather and facing hard winds. Was no wonder that they had problems to spot a huge iceberg, not to mention a dark low profile sub ...

[Zedi]

Can anyone reupload it to mediafire or whatever ? trobles with downloading (

A temporary download link for v12 until filefront sort out his problem:
http://www.zumodrive.com/share/6veXYmQ3MT

[Brauner]

Just came back from the game. That was dark February night I was waiting for a cruiser to pass me and 8 destroyers came in front of me AOB 90 distance 500m.
I could see them without binoculars they don't?
go figure.
Other thing is recharging batteries. I was going normal propulsion 1/3 speed at 12kns when I change to charge the batteries speed didn't change a bit. VII B.
:salute:

[THE_MASK]

Just came back from the game. That was dark February night I was waiting for a cruiser to pass me and 8 destroyers came in front of me AOB 90 distance 500m.
I could see them without binoculars they don't?
go figure.
Other thing is recharging batteries. I was going normal propulsion 1/3 speed at 12kns when I change to charge the batteries speed didn't change a bit. VII B.
:salute:On a really dark night out on the bay i cannot see my hand in front of my face . Thats plausible .

[BowfinSS287]

hello

i have been testing this mod for a week,huge improvement!
i now have a new respect for the destroyers, last time out
it took 4 hours to lose contact,my sub had heavy damage
but i did manage to escape.....my nerves are shot...great work

p.s. the batteries have a time delay b4 charging switches over
lower the valve if you don't want to wait,this is the file you
use to set all the different options

TheDarkWraithUserOptions.py

[Capt Jack Harkness]

That delay is for users with TDW's UI mod, not necessarily for users of this one...

[TheDarkWraith]

Just came back from the game. That was dark February night I was waiting for a cruiser to pass me and 8 destroyers came in front of me AOB 90 distance 500m.
I could see them without binoculars they don't? go figure.

there are many factors to consider here as to why they didn't detect you. One is their alert level - if they weren't in alert state then their sensor effectiveness is decreased. Another major factor in the equation is crew rating - if they were poor, novice, or competent then their ability to detect you significantly decreases. Were you in heavy seas? If so that's a factor. Another factor is v0.0.12 decreased the distance they are able to detect you, allbeit not to 500m but it has been decreased. And yet another factor is aspect - were you broadside to them or was your sub pointing at them? If pointing at them then the distance they can detect you drops significantly. If you were at all stop there's another factor to decrease the distance they can spot you. And being night is yet another factor that decreases their detection distance. Add all those factors up and it's quite possible they would pass right by you :DL

[Captain Joe]

I tested DC's, If explode near or even almost under sub, I get report of hull breached and all sorts of damage and a hull taking damage report but hull stays at 100% no matter what.:hmmm: Using 0.012

[PL_Andrev]

What do you think about higher precision of AA (?) guns vs. periscope head at close distance, especially if player is spotted and looks at deck gun?

[TheDarkWraith]

What do you think about higher precision of AA (?) guns vs. periscope head at close distance, especially if player is spotted and looks at deck gun?

not quite following you here :hmmm:

[TheBeast]

I tested DC's, If explode near or even almost under sub, I get report of hull breached and all sorts of damage and a hull taking damage report but hull stays at 100% no matter what.:hmmm: Using 0.012
I have to question what MODs you are using and game difficulty setting that you can take a direct hit by DC and take no hull damage.

[TheDarkWraith]

I have to question what MODs you are using and game difficulty setting that you can take a direct hit by DC and take no hull damage.

you beat me to it. I was going to ask the same thing because I've been sunk too many times due to DCs :D

[TheBeast]

you beat me to it. I was going to ask the same thing because I've been sunk too many times due to DCs :D
I've been sunk four times by Depth Charges since using IRAI. Two times it was only one Depth Charge that got me. All four times I was in waters 180-230 meters deep and was able to repair and recover all four times with Depth Charges being dropped in my area almost the entire time.

Talk about a total DOS Boot experience...:salute:

We really need to take a hard look at making a Depth Charge Shake MOD. This emersion is currently missing. I understand that SH3 had a really good Shake MOD that we may want to look at.
Seeing that Skwasjer and PRIVATEER are making some add-ons for S3D. Those add-ons may make it possible to just import that MOD in to SH5.

[PL_Andrev]

not quite following you here :hmmm:

1. Periscope view

At many situations I saw that user/player is looking on very close target which is fired to him, like on this screen:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4104/scopeaa.jpg

I think that at this situation the scope head should be damaged very fast form very close high enemy AA fire (and of course could be repaired on surface).

Similar situation exists at SH4, but the solution (only black screen / no view) is partially correct for me.
I think about 3 different solutions:
1) black view (head seriously damaged)
2) bursted glass of scope view
3) blurred and darker view (water in the head)

2. Conning tower

The main problem of ship's ramming at SH3 was high durability of conning tower. If ramming sub was hitting at hull then was seriously damaged or destroyed, but if sub was hitting in conning tower then have small or none damages.

I found a very small mod which fix this bug and I think can be added to your mod:
http://www.filefront.com/17146567/PS_DAMAGES.zip


All uboat rooms have 50% less durability,
Conning tower has 10x less durability,

[Captain Joe]

I have to question what MODs you are using and game difficulty setting that you can take a direct hit by DC and take no hull damage.


Hi, my MODS are in this order:
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.5.0.150
[D:\Games\C&P Games\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]

RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith
Alternate loading screen for SH5
ALTAC
Dooms Decks for VIIABC41 1.4
Loading Screens Mod
Manual Targeting Training Missions
Nauticalwolf's_Damage_and_Torpedo_UI(b)_Mod_v1.1
MP_CONVOY_HG76
SM_CONVOY_HX229
SM_CONVOY_ON115
SM_PORT_DOVER
SM_TASKFORCE_J
SM_TASKFORCE_L
SP_DDTEST
sobers multi color mod
Floor Blue
Environment 3.0 MOD
Accurate German Flags
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ColoredShippingChart_by_reaper7
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_emtguf_rework_scopes
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_naights
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ERM_Reaper7_NightVision
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_jimimadrids_map_tools
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_WWIIInterface_by_naights
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_6x_6x_7x_RAOBF_patch
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.0
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.1
SeaWolf all icons V3 revised
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
SubFlags_0_0_3_byTheDarkWraith
No Damn Bubbles, No Damn Halo Mod
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
QP10
Wooden_Lifeboats_Mod_1.1
AilBubbles 1.0 Micro
AilImpurity 1.2 light
Capthelms SH5 Audio Mod
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt w beards
MCCD_1.04_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible
McHub532s SH4 German Stopwatch v 1.0.0
MiniChrono
Goodbuy Pacman
Shadow Improvement Mod
AilClouds 3.0
SD_MapCourseLine_tiny_arrows
reaper7's Sky Mod
Terrain_harbour_flags_Mod_v1_2_1
Old Style Explosions V1.1
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith

Game Difficulty is all real only external camera views on and event view on and map contact update on ship damage meter on.

I will try again later tonight with minimal mods as in:

NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ColoredShippingChart_by_reaper7
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_emtguf_rework_scopes
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_naights
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ERM_Reaper7_NightVision
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_jimimadrids_map_tools
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_WWIIInterface_by_naights
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_6x_6x_7x_RAOBF_patch
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith

and see what happens and report some time, any help is appreciated.:salute:

Tried other settings:
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.5.0.150
[D:\Games\C&P Games\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]

RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith
Accurate German Flags
Alternate loading screen for SH5
ALTAC
Dooms Decks for VIIABC41 1.4
Environment 3.0 MOD
Floor Blue
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt w beards
MCCD_1.04_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible
McHub532s SH4 German Stopwatch v 1.0.0
MiniChrono
Nauticalwolf's_Damage_and_Torpedo_UI(b)_Mod_v1.1
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_naights
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ColoredShippingChart_by_reaper7
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_emtguf_rework_scopes
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ERM_Reaper7_NightVision
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_jimimadrids_map_tools
NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_WWIIInterface_by_naights
No Damn Bubbles, No Damn Halo Mod
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.0
Reboot's Hot Soup 1.1
SD_MapCourseLine_tiny_arrows
SeaWolf all icons V3 revised
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
sobers multi color mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
SubFlags_0_0_3_byTheDarkWraith
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78

It seems damage is being done but just hull damage meter stays at 100%

If i knew how i would post a pic.

[BowfinSS287]

I had the same thing happen,alot of system damage but no hull
damage....which is fine by me....now the boat's systems get taken
out and you have time to repair them...or sometimes you don't
and you sink....but no more instant death from DC...great:rock:

I had a plane attack me on the surface and the boat took
hull damage....went down to 96%

[PL_Andrev]

I think that at this situation the scope head should be damaged very fast form very close high enemy AA fire (and of course could be repaired on surface).

My proposal - find two differences...
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5027/scopeok.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1091/dmgscpe.jpg

Hmmm... maybe this is place for AI mod, not for 'crashed scope' mod...
:03:

[Captain Joe]

I just tried a new install and only install these 2 mods and same thing:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.5.0.150
[J:\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]

NewUIs_TDC_3_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith

Dont know what else it is but will see if I eventually will die even with hull meter at 100%

[BowfinSS287]

let a destroyer dc you at 40 meters and see if you get system
damage...i had flooding and elect motors down to 16%, at full
engine power i was getting 1 knot. i'm not sure why the hull is
not taking damage from dc ,maybe i've been lucky so far
i'm going to test tonight and see if the hull can be damaged by
dc attack...but imho i like this damage model...your boat can
be sunk, but it takes time to damage the systems that keep her
afloat....or force you to surface...i've already had 2 counter attacks
that lasted 4 and 6 hours......gaming bliss:yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

anyone noticing the enemy's ship speed decrease as they take damage? In v0.0.12 I added a little thing to the ships that causes them to lose speed as they take on damage. If you deck gun them they should be losing speed with every shell hit.
I'm working on ships being able to capsize. I'm editing all the ship's zone files and splitting the boxes down the middle of the ships so that they would be capable of capsizing. The idea should work but haven't completed the first ship yet to test. Hopefully tonight I'll get one ship completed so I can see what the result is.

[THE_MASK]

anyone noticing the enemy's ship speed decrease as they take damage? In v0.0.12 I added a little thing to the ships that causes them to lose speed as they take on damage. If you deck gun them they should be losing speed with every shell hit.
I'm working on ships being able to capsize. I'm editing all the ship's zone files and splitting the boxes down the middle of the ships so that they would be capable of capsizing. The idea should work but haven't completed the first ship yet to test. Hopefully tonight I'll get one ship completed so I can see what the result is. Well unfortunately i had to start my campaign again and so far trying to go thru the channel . Its really realistic and i have been forced back to base for repairs twice , thanks for nuthin :O:

[BowfinSS287]

that would be a very nice addition......looking forward to that...turtle time

did you also change AI from .11 to .12....its seems easier to evade the
destroyers now:hmmm:

i haven't been able to test the ship slow down yet....will keep looking

[TheDarkWraith]

that would be a very nice addition......looking forward to that...turtle time

did you also change AI from .11 to .12....its seems easier to evade the
destroyers now:hmmm:

i haven't been able to test the ship slow down yet....will keep looking

I made some small changes to the hydrophone and sonar of the AI. I thought they were a little too aggressive so I made waves and noise bigger factors in their ability to detect you (makes it harder for them to detect you now) and to keep a lock on you (multiple ships in the area adds to noise and thus harder to detect you). Also their ability to detect you visually was decreased ~ 15% day and night. Oh yeah the speed that the escorts and destroyers are at plays a bigger factor in their ability to detect you now (if they are moving fast it should be without saying that the use of the hydrophone should be degraded). Now if they do detect you they should be pinging you like mad now.

[BowfinSS287]

i just ran a test one on one with destroyer (version .11)
and i slipped away easy...but the last time i ran this test
the DD hunted me for hours, dropped many dc and damaged
my boat bad..i did escape but it was really difficult...so i ran
another test with (version .12) and i was able to escape
with out too much trouble,the DD only made 2 passes
then left the area....do you think this hot and cold tactics
from the DD is from the random factors...if so that would
be fantastic....you would never know what your going to get
i used mission 6 (zig zag attack) for test

[TheDarkWraith]

i just ran a test one on one with destroyer (version .11)
and i slipped away easy...but the last time i ran this test
the DD hunted me for hours, dropped many dc and damaged
my boat bad..i did escape but it was really difficult...so i ran
another test with (version .12) and i was able to escape
with out too much trouble,the DD only made 2 passes
then left the area....do you think this hot and cold tactics
from the DD is from the random factors...if so that would
be fantastic....you would never know what your going to get
i used mission 6 (zig zag attack) for test

there's much randomness built into the ship's AI so trying to predict what they will do is very difficult.

[longam]

there's much randomness built into the ship's AI so trying to predict what they will do is very difficult.

And this is the reason it is great. I actually experienced this in the original game, but I like the modifications you have included. Be More Aggressive!

[THE_MASK]

[FEEDBACK] Cruising along at night in 1939 , calm seas , clear dark skies , my lookout reports aircraft . I decide to let plane attack and see what happens . Straffed by machine gun for a few seconds , pressure hull pierced and down to 54% . Perfect .

[Zedi]

I had a 11 km long shot on a QM for op. Weserubung and luckily 1 torpedo hit his bow. Interesting is that the BB started to speed up but sink in the same time. She was like rushing to the bottom. This was a bit weird acting for a BB.

Sadly, got no chance to see the escort reaction because the campaign ending screen popped up, but last thing I saw was all 6 DD rushing toward me following the torpedo trails. But in reality this is a kamikaze mission, no way you attack and sink a BB then escape.. so I suppose I got raped.

Regarding the planes, got nailed by 2 last night so I decided to go deep just because these small fast attack planes are so small that I fail to spot them until they start to shot .. and then is already late. After 1 hour of TC sailing under water I raised the scope just to see one plane exploding right in front of me. I have no clue why and what caused that. Searched with the ex. camera for a reason but no ships anywhere near. Maybe they collided.. is the only rational reason I can give. If so, this is absolutely awesome .. the human error built into AI ... lol

[Txema]

I made some small changes to the hydrophone and sonar of the AI. I thought they were a little too aggressive so I made waves and noise bigger factors in their ability to detect you (makes it harder for them to detect you now) and to keep a lock on you (multiple ships in the area adds to noise and thus harder to detect you). Also their ability to detect you visually was decreased ~ 15% day and night. Oh yeah the speed that the escorts and destroyers are at plays a bigger factor in their ability to detect you now (if they are moving fast it should be without saying that the use of the hydrophone should be degraded). Now if they do detect you they should be pinging you like mad now.

TDW,

This information is very interesting and it seems that a lot of realistic factors are taken into account in the calculations.... great !!

Let me ask for other important factor: do you know if the explosion of depth charges adds to noise, making the sonar and hydrophones loose contact for a while? It would be great to have this factor also modeled !!


Txema

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Well it's common knowledge that hydrophones on US subs at the time became useless after depth charge attacks until they were re-magnetized, a process which could take any where between 10 seconds or so to a few minutes. I can only imagine that other countries had similar problems, so perhaps DC runs would temporarily disable a destroyers hydrophones/ASDIC... :hmmm:

[BowfinSS287]

how is your ship capsize project coming along ?

[rascal101]

Strange - Just bagged my second Aircraft Carrier in Jan 1940, this one just south west of Lands End - accidently came accross a task force carrier Illustrious and 9-10 destroyers, about 121 metres to the bottom.

Didnt have much choice but to attack, and thought I was dead given the circumstances and your new mod - three torps missed, one stuck - did something serious as massive explosion and fire averywhere, carrier came to a halt but was not mortally wounded, search lights everywhere

Went deep and silent to await punishment - five escorts came after me, four seemed to just sail on as if nothing had happened. Attacked by the five Escorts - depth charges every where - but none near me - snuck off with very little to worry about - They never found me, no sonar pings nothing - was almost like they expected me to sink one of Britains finest -

Destroyer search lasted a couple of hours but was very amateurish

So the point is - having started a couple of attacks since installing your mod - seems the enemy is able to detect me much earlier - but many still dont attack - many of the escorts in the attack above just sailed on when I would have expected all of them to go nuts

Here are my installed mods

A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
BRF 1.3 full
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Old Style Explosions V1.1
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
The Elite Campaign 1.1
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
AilBubbles 1.0
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
Damage assessment1.1
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
Sh5EnvModGold

[THE_MASK]

Strange - Just bagged my second Aircraft Carrier in Jan 1940, this one just south west of Lands End - accidently came accross a task force carrier Illustrious and 9-10 destroyers, about 121 metres to the bottom.

Didnt have much choice but to attack, and thought I was dead given the circumstances and your new mod - three torps missed, one stuck - did something serious as massive explosion and fire averywhere, carrier came to a halt but was not mortally wounded, search lights everywhere

Went deep and silent to await punishment - five escorts came after me, four seemed to just sail on as if nothing had happened. Attacked by the five Escorts - depth charges every where - but none near me - snuck off with very little to worry about - They never found me, no sonar pings nothing - was almost like they expected me to sink one of Britains finest -

Destroyer search lasted a couple of hours but was very amateurish

So the point is - having started a couple of attacks since installing your mod - seems the enemy is able to detect me much earlier - but many still dont attack - many of the escorts in the attack above just sailed on when I would have expected all of them to go nuts

Here are my installed mods

A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
BRF 1.3 full
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Old Style Explosions V1.1
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
The Elite Campaign 1.1
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
AilBubbles 1.0
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
Damage assessment1.1
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
Sh5EnvModGold



This is what you should have and in what order .
Sh5EnvModGold
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Old Style Explosions V1.1
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
AilBubbles 1.0
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
Damage assessment1.1 delete
BRF 1.3 full delete
The Elite Campaign 1.1 delete
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4 delete
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1 delete

[Hartmann]

This is what you should have and in what order .
Sh5EnvModGold
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Old Style Explosions V1.1
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
AilBubbles 1.0
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
Damage assessment1.1 delete
BRF 1.3 full delete
The Elite Campaign 1.1 delete
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4 delete
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1 delete


Lol ! :timeout:

i think that is time for the first big mod pack like RUB :hmmm:

[rascal101]

Hi to you
Curious, I tried following your advise before about which mods to delete and which to keep and in what order

I would like to question you about the following, why would I delete the items you have highlighted se as all of them are supposed to add realism or improve user interface - Are you reccommending their removal out of personal choice, or because of some techncial issue - at the moment there are only two mods clashing in my current mix, NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator and Old Style Explosions V1.1. - I should say they are not clashing with each other but with other mods

Why would you delete the following?
Damage assessment1.1 delete
BRF 1.3 full delete
The Elite Campaign 1.1 delete
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4 delete
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1 delete



This is what you should have and in what order .
Sh5EnvModGold
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
Detailed Caustics 1.0
Digital UI Clock 1.2 for SH5-1.2
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Royale_Adio's Turm Emblems Package
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
Sub_Exhaust_1_0_4_byTheDarkWraith
WoGaDi Mod BetaSix
Lite Campaign LC 1.2
Old Style Explosions V1.1
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.0
AilBubbles 1.0
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
IRAI_0_0_12_ByTheDarkWraith
Damage assessment1.1 delete
BRF 1.3 full delete
The Elite Campaign 1.1 delete
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4 delete
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1 delete

[Arclight]

Delete damage assessment as it's in conflict with IRAI. There's no reason to delete BRF though, I'm kinda wondering too; Sober, do you have a problem with BRF? :06:

[THE_MASK]

Delete damage assessment as it's in conflict with IRAI. There's no reason to delete BRF though, I'm kinda wondering too; Sober, do you have a problem with BRF? :06:No problem its a great mod . I am just saying delete stuff if you have problems .

[Zedi]

Delete UHS?! That's a huge mistake... I would better delete SH5 than UHS and IRAI, these 2 mods are mandatory to have.

[THE_MASK]

Delete UHS?! That's a huge mistake... I would better delete SH5 than UHS and IRAI, these 2 mods are mandatory to have.Who said delete IRAI . TDW said IRAI conflicts with UHS because it conflicts with the Snorkel depth .

[Zedi]

I didn't said to delete IRAI. UHS and IRAI are making this game to be a sim. Regarding the conflict, install UHS first then IRAI and overwrite the files on prompt.

[PL_Andrev]

Short question about multitargets. I hope that in near futures we will play as wolfpack group with AI subs.

But, how this mod (AI) work if few targets are detected? Or one is detected but more submarines in close range are possible?

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.13 released. See post #1 for details :|\\ Still trying to get the perfect balance on enemy AI sensors. The enemy AI's hydrophone and sonar is better and the thermal layer is more effective now against those. Your AI crew's visual and hydrophone has been improved also.

[TheBeast]

Thank You TheDarkWraith

v0.0.13 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1436291&postcount=1)sounds very promissing...:rock:

[eon850aye]

Sweeeet

thx TDW :salute:

[marleymen]

Do I need to be in the base to enable your latest release TDW? :arrgh!:

[TheDarkWraith]

Do I need to be in the base to enable your latest release TDW? :arrgh!:

I don't see why you would need to :06:

[Tectronus]

anyone noticing the enemy's ship speed decrease as they take damage? In v0.0.12 I added a little thing to the ships that causes them to lose speed as they take on damage. If you deck gun them they should be losing speed with every shell hit.
.

Actually i just noticed this last night and couldn't figure out what was going on until i read this.

Last night i launched 2 fish on troop transport ship. These shots where perfect 0 gyro / over the wire shots so i could get 2 fish exactly where i wanted them. The first shot was launched at her bow, the second was launched at her engine room some 6 seconds later. She was traveling at 16 knots when i let the fish go.

So i followed my fish with the free cam and waited for the Grand Finale.
The first shot hit exactly where it should have and then something totally unexpected happened. It seemed like the ship just stopped in its tracks. Then about 6 seconds later it was confirmed by my second shot that almost ended up in the the first shots hole in the bow... WHAAATT???? After that i was stumped and was searching for answers.

Last night i updated v0.0.11 with v0.0.13 and found this post. I wanted to let you to know that your new script it working. It is slowing down ships for sure. Im sure this works awesome as intended if your deck gunning, but what if you score a critical hit with an under the keel magnetic det fish?
It seems like you tied the % of dmg with the % of speed decrease. This is happening instantly though. It made the ship go from 16 knots to almost a dead stop with one perfect hit. ( Critcal chance torpedo mod probably made slow down more extreme also )

Is there any way you could tweak this some more and add the in game timer to the script so that this speed decrease happens over time?? Maybe even a random time gen if you feel like getting really fancy. :D Or maybe tie the % of speed decrease to the flood time? This will let the boat slow down more naturally and let our fish hit where there suppose to and eliminate the instant slow down.


Thx Thedarkwraith, your scripting skills are ninja and are adding so much to this game and community.

[TheDarkWraith]

good report :yeah: Actually it never crossed my mind about a torp shot and the amount of damage it can cause. Yes, the amount of damage taken is tied to the speed decrease. What you have reported is very undesirable and thus I'll either have to remove it or see if I can't find a way to phase it in over time. Instant speed changes isn't realistic :nope:

[PL_Andrev]

good report :yeah: Actually it never crossed my mind about a torp shot and the amount of damage it can cause. Yes, the amount of damage taken is tied to the speed decrease. What you have reported is very undesirable and thus I'll either have to remove it or see if I can't find a way to phase it in over time. Instant speed changes isn't realistic :nope:

Hm, hm, hm...
For example I hit the ship at 10kt and his speed should be 2.
Is possible to implemented different way with different speed?
TORPEDO HIT!
10kt next 10sek
8kt next 15sek
6kt next 20sek
4kt next 30sek
and next way is 2kt
Final: ship will slow at next 750m

I can build special formula to calculate way at speed (with 0.1kt precision) with "real" ship inertia at see, but is it possible to implement?
:06:

But...
What about warships? Some are "listening" with 0 speed and next they moved with hi-speed. I didn't see immediate acceleration form 0 to 35kt...

[Tectronus]

Hm, hm, hm...
For example I hit the ship at 10kt and his speed should be 2.
Is possible to implemented different way with different speed?
TORPEDO HIT!
10kt next 10sek
8kt next 15sek
6kt next 20sek
4kt next 30sek
and next way is 2kt
Final: ship will slow at next 750m



Sounds like a good way to implement it.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.14 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

EDIT:

escorts and destroyers make much better DC runs now and the DCs are much more lethal. I just found myself with heavy flooding and knocked out electric engines by a V&W on it's first pass....wow.....emergency surface time!

[THE_MASK]

Just downloaded v14 . One thing i noticed is that while operating the hydrophone myself the contact is reversed by 180degrees . It should have been approx 2 degrees and i could hear it around 180 aprox . When asking for a contact report , it is correct . cheers . I will check it with v13 . Nope i already deleted v13 LOL .

[reaper7]

Thats a stock bug. The needle is placed 180 degrees of in the hydrophone station.
Bigreg has fixed this and will be releasing soon. He has also given me permission to use the fix in my next release of the UI mod :up:.

[PL_Andrev]

Sounds like a good way to implement it.
Relax, I think that this formula is anywhere in SH5, but nobody knows where...
:D

Wait for TDW answer...

[ReallyDedPoet]

v0.0.14 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

EDIT:

escorts and destroyers make much better DC runs now and the DCs are much more lethal. I just found myself with heavy flooding and knocked out electric engines by a V&W on it's first pass....wow.....emergency surface time!

Nice, on holidays this week so I may get to play a bit :DL

[TheDarkWraith]

Just downloaded v14 . One thing i noticed is that while operating the hydrophone myself the contact is reversed by 180degrees . It should have been approx 2 degrees and i could hear it around 180 aprox . When asking for a contact report , it is correct . cheers . I will check it with v13 . Nope i already deleted v13 LOL .

why is it that I don't notice this? Everytime I use the hydrophone I have no problems with it. Where I hear a contact is where it is. Where a contact line is drawn on the map is where I hear a contact on the hydrophone. I'm beginning to think this is a mod problem (not this one) that's causing this problem.

[PL_Andrev]

good report :yeah: Actually it never crossed my mind about a torp shot and the amount of damage it can cause. Yes, the amount of damage taken is tied to the speed decrease. What you have reported is very undesirable and thus I'll either have to remove it or see if I can't find a way to phase it in over time. Instant speed changes isn't realistic :nope:

:timeout:
It looks that in SH3, SH4 and SH5 the braking way is incorrect...

Google:
1. Merchant 30.000 BRT full loaded with max speed 15kt.
Braking way (full speed -> stop): 8500m at 35 minutes...
2. Merchant 10.000 BRT empty with max speed (no data how many)
Braking way (full speed -> stop): 3300m at 20 minutes...

[TheDarkWraith]

:timeout:
It looks that in SH3, SH4 and SH5 the braking way is incorrect...

Google:
1. Merchant 30.000 BRT full loaded with max speed 15kt.
Braking way (full speed -> stop): 8500m at 35 minutes...
2. Merchant 10.000 BRT empty with max speed (no data how many)
Braking way (full speed -> stop): 3300m at 20 minutes...

same thing with acceleration. Ships/subs have almost instant acceleration and deceleration. There has to be a way to mitigate this - probably increasing the vessel's mass in the files?

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Increasing the mass of the player sub (and probly AI subs, if they dive) has a direct impact on submerged bouyancy. It's how I got subs to maintain depth properly when tweaking other peoples modded sim files; tweak mass by a ton or two, check in game, tweak again...

Not sure how displacement affects handling, might be tied to mass but either way, it had been discussed in the RUB forum as another way to get boats to handle right instead of using excessive drag.

[PL_Andrev]

same thing with acceleration. Ships/subs have almost instant acceleration and deceleration. There has to be a way to mitigate this - probably increasing the vessel's mass in the files?

I think not, the fish boat and CV can stop at this same time...
I have a better idea...
This procedure is independent form ship mass (only for possibility check):

Initial ship speed: 10
Final speed: 0
Braking time = 60 sec

hit torpedo = timer is start
c = 10 - 0,1667*t
if c < speed - 0.5 then speed = speed-0.5

Tell me if it is working... if not, tell me too.
;)

[TheDarkWraith]

I think not, the fish boat and CV can stop at this same time...

I have a better idea...

This procedure is independent form ship mass (only for possibility check):

Initial ship speed: 10
Final speed: 0
Braking time = 60 sec

-----------------

hit torpedo = timer is start
c = 10 - 0,1667*t
if c < speed - 0.5 then speed = speed-0.5

ah I see what you mean. Wish I could put timers in that AI code but can't. It's very limited in what you can do in it. It's like a hybrid C++ function and python script with the syntax removed :doh:

[PL_Andrev]

ah I see what you mean. Wish I could put timers in that AI code but can't.
Really?
And what do you think about system clock?

[TheDarkWraith]

Really?
And what do you think about system clock?

the devs have a set of 'rules' and a set of functions that you are allowed to use in the AI 'blocks' like action, precond, etc. Each unit (aircraft, sub, ship) has different functions also. It's very complicated and I'm still figuring out what can and can't be done. I know I can't call out to any system level or outside functions though. C++ syntax is partly enforced and then again it's not :doh: I'm waiting on info from the devs that I've asked for :yep:

[PL_Andrev]

TDW,

What about ramming?
At SH3 ramming into was very dangerous for uboat (in real for DD too), but ramming into conning tower was safe.
Is this bug still existed in IRAI or is solved?

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW,

What about ramming?
At SH3 ramming into was very dangerous for uboat (in real for DD too), but ramming into conning tower was safe.
Is this bug still existed in IRAI or is solved?

ramming is in there. Any ship will try to ram you if their weight is > defined weight and their distance is < defined distance from you (these defined items are in the init.aix file)

[TopCat]

I just attacked a convoy with 3 Escort units. They detected me, but by staying at periscope depth and keeping a parallel course to a merchant ship at a distance of about 100 metres, they were not able to get me, because they did not come as close to the merchant as they would have needed to.

Is there some kind of safety distance they have to keep? And if so, can there be done something to change that? I was able to cruise for hours without being attacked by the escorts. They just circled around me and my "merchant guard". :har:

[PL_Andrev]

ramming is in there. Any ship will try to ram you if their weight is > defined weight and their distance is < defined distance from you (these defined items are in the init.aix file)

I mean the bug with weak durability of submarine hull and super hard durability of conning tower...

[Wolfling04]

All I have to say is wow. the aircraft in this mod are DEADLY. They come outta no where and bomb you straight to hell.

Major props to you TDW

[PL_Andrev]

I look on the AI script code and have question (do not be angry if I'm wrong again):

What about procedure:

Ship:SetThrottleRatio = 0.9*(1-Ship:GetDamage)
Ship:WaitAction(1)
Ship:SetThrottleRatio = 0.8*(1-Ship:GetDamage)
Ship:WaitAction(1)
...

[TheDarkWraith]

I look on the AI script code and have question (do not be angry if I'm wrong again):

What about procedure:

Ship:SetThrottleRatio = 0.9*(1-Ship:GetDamage)
Ship:WaitAction(1)
Ship:SetThrottleRatio = 0.8*(1-Ship:GetDamage)
Ship:WaitAction(1)
...

you have a brilliant idea but one small problem. Ship:GetDamage starts at 0 and works its way up to 1. This is all fine and dandy for deck gun shots but a torpedo hit causes massive damage and would thus result in an instant speed change on the first 0.9 * .... But there is a way to do this using 'steps'. Using your method posted above will always cause the ship to slow down even if it has no damage. Your idea has given me an idea on something to try though :up::yep:

[marleymen]

Brainstorming, :up: thank you everyone who make this game better !!

[brian.larkin]

How in the HECK do you get away from 5 or 6 destroyers? I've been able to avoid being DC'd (mostly) but there is no amount of maneuvers that will allow me to evade them.

Do they ever just "give up"?

They seem to have super sonar sometimes.

[TheDarkWraith]

How in the HECK do you get away from 5 or 6 destroyers? I've been able to avoid being DC'd (mostly) but there is no amount of maneuvers that will allow me to evade them.

Do they ever just "give up"?

They seem to have super sonar sometimes.

welcome to IRAI! :D

going deep, deploying decoys, and evasive maneuvers (not necessarily in that order) are your friends.....

[brian.larkin]

welcome to IRAI! :D

going deep, deploying decoys, and evasive maneuvers (not necessarily in that order) are your friends.....


I AM deep.. don't matter. And I don't have decoy's, still early in the war.

Sprint, drift, sprint, drift, change course, plod along at 1kt..2 kt.. 200m deep, nothing.. they just circle like hawks.

I notice that the "pac man" detect circles go from small to large and back to small, kind of flittering back and forth. Are they doing their own sprint/drift tactics?


Is there away to evade a group larger than 3? It seems with their combined tactics anything larger than 3 is just a killer group (no need to be a hunter).

[marleymen]

Recently you were angry at the default AI :damn: .... and now you complain that is too hard :rotfl2:

Who understands us?

Thanks TDW :arrgh!: Be more agressive !!

[brian.larkin]

Recently you were angry at the default AI :damn: .... and now you complain that is too hard :rotfl2:

Who understands us?

Thanks TDW :arrgh!: Be more agressive !!


Don't get me wrong. I love it better than the stock which was too easy. I wonder if the swarm's aren't too close to each other. A little more space between them would make it easier to slip between.

Or some sort of "fog of war" variable.

They just don't make a mistake large enought to slip away.

At least IMO....

Ubisoft should give TDW games for life however. The amount he's been able to do is amazing.

[marleymen]

I think the way to avoid 6 DD´s to kill you it is to think before atack. Not at shallow waters, atack at long distance, at night and the side there are less DD´s, that you can evade them after shooting your 4 eels. Go deeper, and Silent Running.

Pray.

[brian.larkin]

I think the way to avoid 6 DD´s to kill you it is to think before atack. Not at shallow waters, atack at long distance, at night and the side there are less DD´s, that you can evade them after shooting your 4 eels. Go deeper, and Silent Running.

Pray.

Yeah that was my thought too. No longer do i go hunting the 4 or 5 destroyers in the group.

No longer running on the surface in between the merchants banging away with my deck gun.


Convoy moving at 5 knots. 4 fish fired at around 1200m at 2 separate targets. 2 kills.. move to 150-200m depth.. maneuvering at 1-5 kts...

Didn't matter. 6 destroyers came out of nowhere..

No pinging either, just maneuvering over the top of me. DC'ing every once in a while. But not sustained or anything.

Full battery, so i just spend the next 8 hours (game time) maneuvering near the bottom trying to get away.


I'm sure it's just me, but with IRAI it seems like the enemy is just Too "computer like"...

What about a random "reduce effectiveness/alertness" every once in a while to simulate combat fatigue?

I don't mind having to trail the bottom at 1 kt for 8 hours... I just want a reasonable assurance that I can make it out! i.e. 25-50% chance...

Much better the way it is now than stock though.

[TheDarkWraith]

What about a random "reduce effectiveness/alertness" every once in a while to simulate combat fatigue?

an excellent idea.....a random value that if triggered says crew is fatigued and they need to resume with the group. Though with HK groups you're just dead as the group is right there.

[brian.larkin]

an excellent idea.....a random value that if triggered says crew is fatigued and they need to resume with the group. Though with HK groups you're just dead as the group is right there.

What about reduced hydrophone capability? or alertness? or ability to make turns, or speed changes, or something!

Give us a chance! :)

Then I'll play those 8 hours.. hoping that they'll make a mistake and I'll be able to sneak out.

[THE_MASK]

Maybe some poeople have the elite campaign mod with IRAI and makes it too unrealistic . If we had something like 10% chance spawn elite class between 1939 and 1942 , 50% chance spawn elite in 1943 , and other random % spawn diffrent class warships . Also % chance tired lookout crew at night .

[THE_MASK]

Could we have a random set of AI surface ships sensors cfg files with each one having a slight diffrence but enough to be just noticably diffrent in game and a diffrent one loaded each time you start the game. The same with the AI scripting , everytime you load the game you wont know what script variable you are getting .

[Krauter]

I am one of those that enjoy the game with very hard escorts. If I were to use Elite Campaign Mod would I install it before IRAI?

[THE_MASK]

I am one of those that enjoy the game with very hard escorts. If I were to use Elite Campaign Mod would I install it before IRAI?
Yes .

[Krauter]

Thanks for that

[PL_Andrev]

Next issue to update IRAI mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170401

Communication uboats <> BdU
I'm doing Black Pit now and there is a lot of wolfpack activity there, including a mission with "sink million ships using wolpack tactics". So instead of hunting convoys, I hunted our u-boats trying to find and join a wolfpack. Finally I managed to find a big one, 9 u-boot heading west in close formation. So I joined them hoping for a great hunt.

AI wolfpack tactics:
Few hours after I joined them, we run right into a huge convoy with heavy escort and all that goodies. Gues what this lame wolfpack did? They broke up. Those retards in front crash dived and sailed away at 50m, 2 in next row got 1 shoted by the escorts and the last row in back managed to sail away on high speed. I left all alone against mad escorts and zig-zag'in ships.

[TheDarkWraith]

sadly the sub AI is in worse shape than the airplane AI. There are limited functions that one can use and the ones available aren't really that good :nope: I've asked the devs for more info on it (received some info for airplanes but had already figured out 99% of what was received) so hopefully they come through with some information that isn't listed or I haven't figured out yet.
When you see them 'turn tail and run' it's not because they're scared. It's because of one of the functions in the AI that tells them to go to outer limits of target sensor THEN they can try and line up an attack :nope:

[Arclight]

Aye, it's the evasion behaviour. Had me a bit puzzled too. :doh:

[PL_Andrev]

sadly the sub AI is in worse shape than the airplane AI.
:damn:

Look, I don't know that this is good idea for IRAI mod (or maybe for other independent project), but Magnum in first part of my mail wrote:

(...) instead of hunting convoys, I hunted our u-boats (...)

Maybe is possible to prepare a script which will control the player localization on map?
On campaign files we can manually read position of all wolfpacks (I think), so if player is closer than 500km he can receive a order to join to the nearest wolfpack...

Of course this is only proposal and don't know is possible...
Hmm... how can I open the included campaign file?
:hmmm:

[Zedi]

I feel you TDW, the wolfpack is just retarded. Made a random mission to prove it: download here (http://www.zumodrive.com/share/6G9NYTYwOT). Then watch and cry.

[TheDarkWraith]

I feel you TDW, the wolfpack is just retarded. Made a random mission to prove it: download here (http://www.zumodrive.com/share/6G9NYTYwOT). Then watch and cry.

you won't cry anymore! I just rewrote the sub AI (first draft). Results are GREATLY improved sub AI :rock: They fire torpedoes quite often now but I can't get them to fire cannons. Has anyone ever seen the sub AI fire cannons? :06:

Ok this is awesome.....using the mission link above I watched as my wolfpack AI subs decimated the two merchants.....torpedo hits took them out!!! The escort turned tail and ran away while this onslaught was going on......the merchants managed to take out 3 of the AI subs with gun fire.......after the wolfpack AI subs finished off the two merchants they surfaced and then started hightailing it for the escort!! AWESOME!

and this was just the first draft of the sub AI......

[Txema]

you won't cry anymore! I just rewrote the sub AI (first draft). Results are GREATLY improved sub AI :rock: They fire torpedoes quite often now but I can't get them to fire cannons. Has anyone ever seen the sub AI fire cannons? :06:

Ok this is awesome.....using the mission link above I watched as my wolfpack AI subs decimated the two merchants.....torpedo hits took them out!!! The escort turned tail and ran away while this onslaught was going on......the merchants managed to take out 3 of the AI subs with gun fire.......after the wolfpack AI subs finished off the two merchants they surfaced and then started hightailing it for the escort!! AWESOME!

and this was just the first draft of the sub AI......

Wow !!!

This sounds great !!! :o

Your work on the Wolfpacks can make SH5 truly special and worthy.

Please, let us know about your progress. I can't wait to experience being part of a proper Wolfpack attack !!! :rock:


Txema

[TheDarkWraith]

Wow !!!

This sounds great !!! :o

Your work on the Wolfpacks can make SH5 truly special and worthy.

Please, let us know about your progress. I can't wait to experience being part of a proper Wolfpack attack !!! :rock:


Txema

progress is......well, I'm going to release v0.0.15 of IRAI with the new sub AI. It still needs some work but it's WAY better than it was......I guarantee you'll be amazed :rock:

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.15 released! This release includes more tweaks to ship AI hydrophone and sonar and new sub AI (a total re-write of it :D). See post #1 for details :|\\

EDIT:

v0.0.15 shows that the sub AI works and the tactics employed by the sub AI are the same for every ship. In v0.0.16 I'll introduce different tactics based on the type of ship. If it's a merchant then the tactics used will be drastically different than the tactics for an escort or enemy submarine. I've also written to the devs asking for some information on the sub AI functions. I really want to be able to lower the periscope and get the cannons working along with some other things.
Keep in mind that enemy AI subs WILL hunt you down now.....you'll never know when a torpedo is coming your way......

[THE_MASK]

I just played that mission and after a while 3 AI subs sat on the surface .That was after destroying the 2 merchies and finding the escort . I dont know weather they were destroyed and didnt sink but the warship ignored them and they were less than 1000mts away . Maybe the escort ignored them because they were dead or it detected the player sub ?

[PL_Andrev]

Yes, the amount of damage taken is tied to the speed decrease. What you have reported is very undesirable and thus I'll either have to remove it or see if I can't find a way to phase it in over time. Instant speed changes isn't realistic :nope:

Hey, TDW!
Look what I found! Maybe it help you to find the correct way to speed menagement...

Changes AI behaviour with regards to keeping speed and sensor effectiveness; enemies will slow down after taking some damage and be less aware of their surroundings.

The threshold depends on % of HP, so ships with higher total HP will need more hits before they slow down. The speed reduction is a percentage as well, so the higher their top speed, the faster they will continue.

Here are the numbers:
Slow to 50% speed at 25% damage
Slow to 20% speed at 65% damage
Abandon ship at 85% damage

All sensor effectiveness reduced to 70% while in "damage assessment" state to simulate sending some crewmembers to investigate, captain focusing on getting the damage under control, shock from being hit, etc.

Source:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165771

[reaper7]

Just tried the included mission, and there's only one word for it WOLFPACKS :yeah:.

Following pics are from the AI ingame (I just observed).

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/SubAI1.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/SubAI4.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/SubAI5.jpg

Now one thing I noticed that when the AI subs were killed they surfaced to decks-awash and sat there, they were also ignored by the AI after this. :hmmm:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af168/reaper7_SH5/SubAI6.jpg

[TheDarkWraith]

Now one thing I noticed that when the AI subs were killed they surfaced to decks-awash and sat there, they were also ignored by the AI after this. :hmmm:

I think I know why....investigating :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.15.1 released. This is a bugfix version for v0.0.15. Fixes the problem of destroyed AI subs floating on the surface at allstop. See post #1 for details :|\\

[The General]

Does this mean A.I. Subs are in the Campaign and that they respond to your Contact Reports? :D

[reaper7]

v0.0.15.1 released. This is a bugfix version for v0.0.15. Fixes the problem of destroyed AI subs floating on the surface at allstop. See post #1 for details :|\\

Thanks TDW :yeah: Anyway to add a static crew to the AI Subs similar to your flagpole mod that are visible when surfaced.
Even if the were fixed to the model and were visible submerged would be better than not visible surfaced :DL.

Does the Sub:FireCannons(); command work to get the AI Subs to fire cannons on the surface.

[TheDarkWraith]

Does the Sub:FireCannons(); command work to get the AI Subs to fire cannons on the surface.

nope. It's in the code but doesn't appear to work :hmmm:

[Arclight]

The captain probably failed to distribute enough special meals to keep morale up and is missing that point he needs to man the deckgun. :roll:

/jk

[Drakhun]

I wont be very original saying how marvelous job You are doing DarkWraith and that Your mods are saving SHV:salute: But anyway thank You very much!

As I instaled latest version of IRAI, I want to give my feedback.

1. It's september 1939, Britan Coastal Waters. Finally I found a unescorted convoy (what a relief after seeing what have You done with escorts:D ). That was a mix of some freighters and aux cruisers Rawalpindi (what a prey:arrgh!:). I sent 2 of them to Davy Jones Locker in initial salvo and then 2 cruisers headed to area where ships were sunk and... stopped, giving me time to reload and fire again. So I'm not sure if that is intended (like rescue action) or something is wrong with them. Just to let You know. Picture below

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/Zwierz666/SilentHunter/SH5Img2010-08-07_152451.jpg

2. This is subjective, but I'm in doubt about damage inflicted by aircraft's machine guns. When my eagle-eyed watch:doh: let the Hurricane close undetected, after taking a few shots I had damaged diesels, deck gun, periscope and flack gun, what is ok I think. Watch Officer was also wounded but he deserved it :nope: But I'm concerned about hull damage: 83% Hull Integrity after that attack. Machine guns was really so lethal? I'm only asking 'cause I dont have any historical info.

3. This is also subjective, but what about visual detection range? My eagle-eyed watch (no pun intended this time:DL ) is able to spot ships from far away while I can't see a thing using UZO, binoculars, periscope. Ships they spotted are far beyond range of my optic instruments. I use emtguf's reworked scopes included with Your UI mod, if that matters.

Anyway keep up great work:yeah: And I wonder what % of SHV price should UBISOFT transfer to Your account.

[PL_Andrev]

v0.0.15.1 released. This is a bugfix version for v0.0.15. Fixes the problem of destroyed AI subs floating on the surface at allstop. See post #1 for details :|\\

:o
Wooow!
Man, this issue had killed most of my multiplayer games in SH4!
How did you do?

[Txema]

TDW,

Thank you very much for this new release including new sub AI :DL

Wow !!!

Let me suggest something for the future: I think that to simulate proper Wolfpack attacks in the campaign where the player spots a convoy and reports its possition to BDU, and then waits for the Wolfpack to reach the convoy to make a coordinated attack, it would be necessary for the player to shadow the convoy for a quite long period of time. This can be very realistic but also quite boring. To ease the "shadow the convoy until the Wolfpack arrives" part it would be very usefull for the player to have a SCRIPT that realizes a proper automatic shadowing of the convoy while waiting for the Wolfpack, while the player sets the Time Compression to a quite high value...
We can even think about finishing the script when the Wolpack arrives, sending a message to the player that says something like: "from BDU: Wolfpack proceed to attack the convoy !!!"

Do you think it would be possible to implement such script???

I am really excited about the new possibilities that are arising now that we have "new sub AI" + "scrips for the player sub" !!!


Txema

[THE_MASK]

Surely animated crew on the sub AI would be possible ?

[Madox58]

There's no waypoints info for AI Subs.
:hmmm:
Perhaps they need added?

[Rickster1]

DW, thanks for this mod I think the balance is now pretty good. i am at the moment under going a dc attack by 3 destroyers after sinking one and the dc atttack is challenging but not yet fatal.:)

[Lemke]

Very nice mod!

I tried a wolfpack attack, and it worked like a charm. The wolfpack was on an interception course with the convoy, so I didn't really have to radio them when I sighted the convoy. When contact was made, the AI subs turned towards the convoy, still running at 14 knots. After getting shot at by merchantmen and escorts, they dived and proceeded at max speed. This particular convoy had only 2 escorts, so the AI subs were able to fire quite a lot of torpedoes, and they were able to sink at least 3 ships and damage 5 more (which I helped to send to the bottom!).

NICE!!!! :salute:

During another wolfpack attack some time later, the AI subs didn't do so well (there were at least 6 escorts) and sunk only 1 ship and damaged 2. But it still worked!

Haven't tried to actually call the wolfpack for an attack though... I usually stick with a wolfpack, hoping that it will bump into a convoy within my patrol area...

My suggestions for further improving the AI subs:

- maybe it would be possible to make the AI subs sail at top speed when on surface and a convoy is spotted (they normally sail at 14 knots on surface)
- AI subs should dive when they get their first deckgun hit from escorts/merchantmen, and not after getting 10+ hits
- some AI subs are seen zigzaging while underwater, which reduces their speed and doesn't look realistic
- AI subs engage the escorts, usually without success (they only fire steam torps, and these are easily detected by the escort crew): I think the AI subs should rather avoid shooting at escorts and concentrate on merchantmen - exept if there are only escorts remaining. After all, subs were designed to sink merchant tonnage (if they could), not escorts!
- it would be nice to see the AI torpedoes on the nav map (and also the location of the sunk AI subs), that would allow a more entertaining use of the external cam

Anyways, this is a MAJOR improvement over the stock version!!! THANKS A LOT and keep up the good work!!!

[TheDarkWraith]

My suggestions for further improving the AI subs:

- maybe it would be possible to make the AI subs sail at top speed when on surface and a convoy is spotted (they normally sail at 14 knots on surface)
- AI subs should dive when they get their first deckgun hit from escorts/merchantmen, and not after getting 10+ hits
- some AI subs are seen zigzaging while underwater, which reduces their speed and doesn't look realistic
- AI subs engage the escorts, usually without success (they only fire steam torps, and these are easily detected by the escort crew): I think the AI subs should rather avoid shooting at escorts and concentrate on merchantmen - exept if there are only escorts remaining. After all, subs were designed to sink merchant tonnage (if they could), not escorts!
- it would be nice to see the AI torpedoes on the nav map (and also the location of the sunk AI subs), that would allow a more entertaining use of the external cam

Anyways, this is a MAJOR improvement over the stock version!!! THANKS A LOT and keep up the good work!!!

This version was the first rewrite of the sub AI. As so it only includes tactics for all ships. The next version v0.0.16 will include tactics that deal with different ships (merchants, escorts, subs, unknown, etc.).
The AI subs diving on damage received is configurable. Right now it's set to 30% damage before they dive when heading in to attack a target.
As far as AI subs zigzagging underwater there's nothing I can do about that. That's them lining up for their torpedo shot.
Not sure if I can get the AI sub's torpedoes to show on the map or if I can get the game to show destroyed AI subs on the map :hmmm:

[tonschk]

Thank you TheDarkWraith :DL, Very Well done :yeah:

[Lemke]

This version was the first rewrite of the sub AI.

I know, but you still managed to do some fantastic work here!!!

The next version v0.0.16 will include tactics that deal with different ships (merchants, escorts, subs, unknown, etc.)

I hope escorts can also be configured to be considered secondary targets by the AI subs, that would allow the convoys to be really slaughtered!!! :arrgh!:

"The player doesn't have much direct interaction with the wolfpacks, with the AI boats, but if he keeps shadowing convoys and keeping contact with the convoys in the area that the wolfpacks operate, then the AI boats will also join the battle. The wolfpack will have an operational area and if you shadow convoys in that area, the wolfpacks will be able to react."
http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh5/preview_sh5_jan2010B.php

Does anyone know if this works? If so, what is the maximum range to call in a wolfpack?

[TopcatWA]

Great Mod.
Thanks for all the work gone into this.:up:

[bert8for3]

Brilliant mod, many thanks DW. :yeah:

Had become used to aircraft just flying over/past; got caught napping and astonished when first aircraft after installing mod not only attacked, but came around again!

[spf69]

nice work yet again D.W. thank you for your mods.:yeah:

[7thSeal]

I was making a night attack on a convoy and had two ships left. I decided to surface and finish with deck gun but was missing quite a bit with the seas a little rough and darken night. I was zoomed in and could see the wake from the ship but it look like it was getting closer and I thought it was maneuvering to avoid any torpedoes so I just kept firing. After a few more shots I zoomed out and that freaking ship was bearing down right on top me trying to ram. I panicked but managed full throttle and he caught just the tail end of my sub which caused alot of noise but didn't manage to do much damage since I was able to get partially out of the way. I pay more attention now when in the middle of a convoy. :DL

[Barso]

I had uninstalled SH5 with no intention of returning to it but I just had to try this mod.
You sir have just saved SH5.
I can't believe how incredible this mod is and look forward to what your future plans are for it.

[SeaTurtle]

2. This is subjective, but I'm in doubt about damage inflicted by aircraft's machine guns. When my eagle-eyed watch:doh: let the Hurricane close undetected, after taking a few shots I had damaged diesels, deck gun, periscope and flack gun, what is ok I think. Watch Officer was also wounded but he deserved it :nope: But I'm concerned about hull damage: 83% Hull Integrity after that attack. Machine guns was really so lethal? I'm only asking 'cause I dont have any historical info.

3. This is also subjective, but what about visual detection range? My eagle-eyed watch (no pun intended this time:DL ) is able to spot ships from far away while I can't see a thing using UZO, binoculars, periscope. Ships they spotted are far beyond range of my optic instruments. I use emtguf's reworked scopes included with Your UI mod, if that matters.

Anyway keep up great work:yeah: And I wonder what % of SHV price should UBISOFT transfer to Your account.

I think the machine guns can do pretty good damage to your sub, i've read some documents about it, seems to be realistic. But i've been an IL2 player with some naval attacks and surfaced subs firing their AA to my plane, and it's more dangerous for you - as a pilot - than what you can do with your own aircraft machine gun... so I think as a plane, I shouldnt be attacking a surfaced sub except If I have a torpedoe or a bomb to drop on it... or if the sub is diving. otherwise the risk is more important for a plane to rush over a sub only for a machinegun/AA duel... some AA to your plane can break your engine or kill the pilot and in the middle of the sea, your are done !

And yes, the watchman can see the boats beyond the optic instruments, this is a very precious guy on the sub :D

[PL_Andrev]

The next version v0.0.16 will include tactics that deal with different ships (merchants, escorts, subs, unknown, etc.).

Great news!!!
:yeah:

- coordination / cooperation with AI wolfpacks?
- follow convoy, inform BdU and wait for wolfpack?
- attack targets with torpedoes by AI escort ships?
- attack spotted submarines with torpedoes by AI escort ships?
- attack spotted submerged submarines with torpedoes by AI escort ships?
- attack spotted submerged submarines with torpedoes by AI planes?
- BdU cooperation with fuel / ammo / position reports?
- and with Enigma / Ultra game?
- refuel or resupply at sea messages?
- refuel or resupply at sea action with friendly merchant or submarine?

[The General]

Are Leigh Lights modelled in the game? If not, can they be?

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4016/uboat20leigh20light20pa.jpg (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/uboat20leigh20light20pa.jpg/)

[Capt Jack Harkness]

That would be cool! It'd add even more to the fear factor of a night-time air attack.

I can just imagine the faces of the deck watch when caught in the glare of one... :o

[TheDarkWraith]

Are Leigh Lights modelled in the game? If not, can they be?

I don't see them in the .eqp files for the planes. I don't see why they couldn't be added. What does it look like on the plane (looking for an ingame shot) so I can see what to try and add to them. Also, what planes had these (SH5 wise)?

[PL_Andrev]

I don't see them in the .eqp files for the planes. I don't see why they couldn't be added. What does it look like on the plane (looking for an ingame shot) so I can see what to try and add to them. Also, what planes had these (SH5 wise)?

I'm sure about:


Consolidated B-24 Liberator
Vickers Wellington

Usying: June 1942

[Capt Jack Harkness]

And it looks like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Leigh_Light.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_light

[PL_Andrev]

TDW,

Please remember about two my requests, which can have influence to current AI abilities and tactics:

These requests are close to "real life":

1. Active sonar range:
It should be correct for value:
Max Bearing = 60
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=285&pictureid=2565

2. Less durability of conning tower
The conning tower has to high durability for other uboat rooms.

This is small mod which helps you find the correct way:
http://www.filefront.com/16162407/PS_damages.zip/
[conning tower has 10x less durability]
[other uboat's rooms have 50% of stock durability]

[Kromus]

Amazing work on planes and ship AI (came back after about 2 months and I see things are getting better and better like SteelViking mods, environment mods etc).
Finally AI escorts and planes are doing something so I can`t eradicate whole convoy at P depth while escorts are shadowing me, great job on this mod (not unrealistically tough or easy). :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

starting work on v0.0.16. This version is going to look into what Antar posted above and also give the sub AI different tactics for different ships (merchants, escorts, unknown). Also got some info back from the devs so I'll be making some changes based on that info. Sadly, there is no command to lower the sub AI's periscopes once they are raised :wah: Also according to the info received the sub AI should be firing their cannons so I'm trying to figure out why they aren't.
Is there anything else I need to look into? I'm also going to look into adding lights to the planes Antar mentioned. Anything else? How's the ship AI? Too difficult, not difficult enough,....?

[qweasd]

i'm fine with the mod as it is, but :D what about gaining control over the other subs. Like, set navigation paths for them to follow, so the player is like the admiral of a fleet of subs.

That would give a new dimension to the game.

Good job btw TDW :rock:

[TheDarkWraith]

i'm fine with the mod as it is, but :D what about gaining control over the other subs. Like, set navigation paths for them to follow, so the player is like the admiral of a fleet of subs.

That would give a new dimension to the game.

Good job btw TDW :rock:

don't think possible. I don't see anything in documentation that even hints at controlling the AI subs :wah:

[elanaiba]

I could see 2 possible - if far fetched - options for submarines to be more reactive to player actions:

1) use the "patrols spawned from base nodes in relation to threat areas

OR

2) use once a player sends a contact report, use an external tool to analyze the coordinates and generate a mis file with wolfpack headed to intercept. The campaign can dynamically merge mission files if an objective is achieved or failed so maybe a trick can be pulled there ...

[TheDarkWraith]

I could see 2 possible - if far fetched - options for submarines to be more reactive to player actions:

1) use the "patrols spawned from base nodes in relation to threat areas

OR

2) use once a player sends a contact report, use an external tool to analyze the coordinates and generate a mis file with wolfpack headed to intercept. The campaign can dynamically merge mission files if an objective is achieved or failed so maybe a trick can be pulled there ...

ah so the game reads these mis files during the game and not just at game start?

[elanaiba]

I'll have to verify on Monday just to make sure about the technical solution we chose for the layer merge, but my memory says "yes".

[PL_Andrev]

starting work on v0.0.16.
(...)
Sadly, there is no command to lower the sub AI's periscopes once they are raised :wah:

Great news!

I know that AI sub are attacking on full speed. Maybe good solution is deep 20m if sub AI is not attacked (only moving)? Periscope head will be under water...

[PL_Andrev]

Test with no IRAI mod / only stability checking test with other mods (my SH5 was CtD before)

I played yesterday "historical mission / operation Pedestal", used Italian taskforce as AA shield. When I was on the supposed way of the main convoy, I used counter-course to intercept enemy, sometimes hydrophone using. Mission end with 0 BRT (enemy not spotted)

Observations:
1.
In this mission player cooperates with friendly taskforce and friendly 15-20 airplanes. Of course, at all units radio was broken and nobody inform about spotted enemy position
a) class: warship, escort, merchant,
b) position on map,
c) time when spotted

This is role of 'send contact report', right?
AI should send contact report if enemy is spotted every 5 minutes and send report to player's map.

2.
In first few waves of enemy airplane attack, the main target was... my submarine.

3.
At last few waves of enemy airplane attack, the main targets was Italian BB (high-AA), but nobody attacks CA Trento (light-AA).

4.
No anti-naval torpedo type attacks by planes, all proceeded bomb-dive attack.

5.
No 'observation mode' (see point 1), only attack with or without ammunition on planes.
__________________

Tests with last IRAI, this same mission:

U-boat status: sunk by aircrafts fire.
:up:

Observations:
1.
After first attacks Italian taskforce crash formation. One BB stops machines (damages?), CA run 90° right alone.
CtD.
After reload mission stopped BB is swimming (?).

2.
Many attacks was proceeded on my submarine (no airplanes bomb detected)

3.
Italian taskforce after each airplane attack is high-manoeuvring, so when my sub was sunk, friendly taskforce was close to start point (without IRAI Italian taskforce didn't react on enemy fire).

__________________

Tests with last IRAI + Environmantal 3.0 Mod I , this same mission:
(Mod available at http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166178 )

Instead 50 enemy aircrafts I saw only one, and I found enemy taskforce.
Strange... the weather looks better than stock environmental mod...
:hmmm:

[7thSeal]

Anything else? How's the ship AI? Too difficult, not difficult enough,....?

I like the balance of it, get pounded sometimes and yet other times I'm able to sneak away and the tension is high during the hunts. :)

One thing I've noticed after you made the depth charges more powerful is that Destroyers will sometimes blow themselves up exploding them at a shallow depth when trying to kill me. Had seven DD on me one time and three of them took themselves out.

[marleymen]

I could see 2 possible - if far fetched - options for submarines to be more reactive to player actions:

1) use the "patrols spawned from base nodes in relation to threat areas

OR

2) use once a player sends a contact report, use an external tool to analyze the coordinates and generate a mis file with wolfpack headed to intercept. The campaign can dynamically merge mission files if an objective is achieved or failed so maybe a trick can be pulled there ...

No one has said yet but ... thanks for helping to make the game better Elanaiba :yeah:
Keep well informed TDW on how to make better AI behavior.

Respect

[TheDarkWraith]

See anything different in the below screenshot:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=364&pictureid=2907

all hydrophones are now full sweep for the ship AI. Also the sonar beam has been reduced from 90 degrees to 60 degrees (for a 120 degree arc).
The hydrophone is full sensitivity from 225 to 135. From 135 to 155 and 203 to 225 it's 0.5. From 155 to 203 it's 0.1 (to account for ship propeller and engine noise).

[PL_Andrev]

The hydrophone is full sensitivity from 225 to 135. From 135 to 155 and 203 to 225 it's 0.5. From 155 to 203 it's 0.1 (to account for ship propeller and engine noise).

I think that better idea is to show the correct range for escort ships.
It can be realised as:

Hydrophone #1:
range 0.1 - 180°

Hydrophone #2:
range 0.5 - 155°

Hydrophone #3:
range 1.0 - 135°

[Krauter]

Oh no! :timeout: :wah:

Now I can't hide in their baffles :(
Would it be possible to implement this for the sub hydrophone ie: you can actually hear past your baffles, just not to a very good degree

[TheDarkWraith]

Oh no! :timeout: :wah:

Now I can't hide in their baffles :(
Would it be possible to implement this for the sub hydrophone ie: you can actually hear past your baffles, just not to a very good degree

already made that change to sub hydrophone's that allow 360 degree coverage. They had it where from 170-190 there was no coverage...bah...what if you're at all stop? The crew AI will not be able to detect anything from 170-190....I made it 360 degree coverage for those hydrophones that can.

You can still hide. The sensitivity is 0.1 in the baffles so unless you're doing something stupid (like ahead full or flank) you should be ok. I think I'll revise that though to make a tighter area for the baffle region......

Your sonar operator updates hydrophone contacts much faster now. It was 30 seconds for a sweep of 16 degrees. Now it's 5 seconds for a sweep of 20 degrees.

[Krauter]

Ahh excellent :D

Lol I don't go higher then 2 knts when I'm ~100m outside their sonar range until I''m out.. only at 170M+ and in their baffles will I goto Ahead Slow:haha: All thanks to Ducimus' TMO :D

[Capt Jack Harkness]

all hydrophones are now full sweep for the ship AI. Also the sonar beam has been reduced from 90 degrees to 60 degrees (for a 120 degree arc).
The hydrophone is full sensitivity from 225 to 135. From 135 to 155 and 203 to 225 it's 0.5. From 155 to 203 it's 0.1 (to account for ship propeller and engine noise).

Do we know if the destroyers' hydrophones actually had 360º capability? Submarines today just do not have any hydrophones pointed that direction, except one or two to measure self-noise.

[TheDarkWraith]

Do we know if the destroyers' hydrophones actually had 360º capability? Submarines today just do not have any hydrophones pointed that direction, except one or two to measure self-noise.

I'm assuming so from when I was in the Navy the ship's in our battlegroup did. If someone can get the historic actual values for all the different hydrophones used I'll make them historically accurate.

[marleymen]

See anything different in the below screenshot:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=364&pictureid=2907

all hydrophones are now full sweep for the ship AI. Also the sonar beam has been reduced from 90 degrees to 60 degrees (for a 120 degree arc).
The hydrophone is full sensitivity from 225 to 135. From 135 to 155 and 203 to 225 it's 0.5. From 155 to 203 it's 0.1 (to account for ship propeller and engine noise).


Master !! :up: Can´t wait to taste it.

I have a question: when playing with IRAI, when a convoy is warned of Subs the convoy dispersed and start doing erratic course. How long it takes to join again? (reasonable time) Because of when I see a dispersed one it takes 3-4 hours for the ships to return to the "normal" course.

Thanks

[303_Michcich]

Hi TDW,

I have a question - I am using total manual targetting and after installing IRAI I have problems hitting targets....this seems to be linked to target speed estimation - the way I estimate speed is: ship`s lenght/time in seconds *1,94. Without IRAI I had almost 100 % hit rate, but with IRAI mod my torps seem to go too fast.

Does IRAI affect ships` speed in any way ? I noticed on message box navigator was giving me speed, avg speed (and the two were different) and these were different to what I estimated based on the method above...

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi TDW,

I have a question - I am using total manual targetting and after installing IRAI I have problems hitting targets....this seems to be linked to target speed estimation - the way I estimate speed is: ship`s lenght/time in seconds *1,94. Without IRAI I had almost 100 % hit rate, but with IRAI mod my torps seem to go too fast.

Does IRAI affect ships` speed in any way ? I noticed on message box navigator was giving me speed, avg speed (and the two were different) and these were different to what I estimated based on the method above...

what the navigator gives is accurate +- some small random percent for human error (not including your input error).

Yes IRAI affects ship's speed. If they are not in alert state then their available throttle is reduced. Once in alert state (i.e. torpedo detected) their available throttle is increased and they make use of it. Damage taken also reduces their speed a little.

[PL_Andrev]

Is there anything else I need to look into? Anything else? How's the ship AI? Too difficult, not difficult enough,....?

You ask about difficulty? Answer is not easy...

The new player starts playing SH5. Everybody know what opinion has stock game, so he installs mod... IRAI, to test updated AI.

He wants to have fun, learn game, and play historical missions.
Turns 0% real, with automatic targeting system and...
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7990/failqr.jpg
Of course, range is not 500m, speed is not 0kt, AoB is not -13 (is close to 90).
He do not hit all time (at 0% difficulty level !), and is is sunk very fast (at 0% difficulty level !). Frustrating?

This mod is very hard - I tested it with "operation Pedestal" at 29% real and I was sunk 6x with 0 BRT (3x sunk by aircrafts, 3x sunk by convoy escort). Last time I was sunk when few second after submerging I was attacked by one airplane!!!

This mod is very hard but it is OK for me (I'm playing 100% real at SH3 and SH4 matchgames). But what about others?
___________________________

My idea is totally reorganize difficulty levels
AI is good, but what is difference between 0% real and 100%?
"Projectile deck gun path", "dud torpedoes", "both cameras", or "unlimited fuel" do not help to avoid your escorts and be KIA.
At 100% (now) is OK and I love this mod, but for other difficulty levels the AI sensors (efficiency) should by less or higher (max error).

Solution:
- fix auto targeting
- decrease all AI sensors, precisions, efficienct as:
current sensor = sensors.cfg * current difficulty level

Now your IRAI is too hard for middle-level gamers, but is perfect for 100% hard maniacs... Maybe I'm wrong but I think that if somebody tell you that your mod (or SH5) has stupid AI, you should answer: wow, man, tell me first whit difficulty level do you use...
:yawn:

[303_Michcich]

what the navigator gives is accurate +- some small random percent for human error (not including your input error).

Yes IRAI affects ship's speed. If they are not in alert state then their available throttle is reduced. Once in alert state (i.e. torpedo detected) their available throttle is increased and they make use of it. Damage taken also reduces their speed a little.


TDW, Is ship`s ability to detec scope increased as well - my other theory is that my scope may be seen and then the ship `plays` with its speed ?

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, Is ship`s ability to detec scope increased as well - my other theory is that my scope may be seen and then the ship `plays` with its speed ?

yep. They will detect your scope.

[303_Michcich]

...and that I guess depends on sea state - i.e. less likely to detect when wavy conditions etc. ?

I guess I now need to retract scope between taking readings

[Krauter]

Now your IRAI is too hard for middle-level gamers, but is perfect for 100% hard maniacs... Maybe I'm wrong but I think that if somebody tell you that your mod (or SH5) has stupid AI, you should answer: wow, man, tell me first whit difficulty level do you use...
:yawn:

I don't consider myself a 100% hard Maniac (I play 77%..) and this Mod is what I'm looking for

[Capt Jack Harkness]

I'm assuming so from when I was in the Navy the ship's in our battlegroup did. If someone can get the historic actual values for all the different hydrophones used I'll make them historically accurate.

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/asdic.htm

It appears that the ASDIC system could double as a hydrophone, and I've found no record of dedicated hydrophones on RN destroyers. If this is true, then I would imagine hydrophone coverage would be identical to ASDIC coverage. Perhaps they listened while cruising, then pinged when there was certain evidence of a sub in the area? Either way it would mean that hydrophones and ASDIC cannot be used simultaneously.

Is it possible to make the sensor effectiveness of both a proportion of speed? The article said ASDIC was nearly useless above 18 kts, other sources say 15 kts.

[TheDarkWraith]

http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/asdic.htmIs it possible to make the sensor effectiveness of both a proportion of speed? The article said ASDIC was nearly useless above 18 kts, other sources say 15 kts.

speed already plays a role in sensor effectiveness of hydrophone and sonar.

[Krauter]

Even today it is a factor in Modern SSN, SSB(G)Ns and Destroyers/Frigates

[TheDarkWraith]

...and that I guess depends on sea state - i.e. less likely to detect when wavy conditions etc. ?

I guess I now need to retract scope between taking readings

waves have a part in the sensor effectiveness of visual, hydrophone, and sonar.

Tested the full 360 hydrophone sweep and didn't like the results. It was too easy to 'baffle' ride. So I changed it:

- adjusted ship AI hydrophone to full 360 degree sweep. From 90-135 the sensitivity is 0.85, from 135-157 the sensitivity is 0.7, from 157-169 the sensitivity is 0.55, from 169-191 the sensitivity is 0.3 (to account for propeller noise and engine noise), from 191-203 the sensitivity is 0.55, from 203-225 the sensitivity is 0.7, and from 225 to 270 the sensitivity is 0.85, and from 270-90 the sensitivity is defined by the sim.cfg file (currently 1.0)

Now you can still 'baffle ride' but you have a very narrow range (22 degrees) to stay inside of. Stray outside of that and chances of getting detected rise considerably.

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.16 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[TheDarkWraith]

current sensor = sensors.cfg * current difficulty level

Now your IRAI is too hard for middle-level gamers, but is perfect for 100% hard maniacs... Maybe I'm wrong but I think that if somebody tell you that your mod (or SH5) has stupid AI, you should answer: wow, man, tell me first whit difficulty level do you use...
:yawn:

I have an idea of how the user can change the difficulty they want for this mod (in a range of 0-1 with 1 being 100% difficulty). I'll try and implement it tomorrow :yep:

EDIT:

just gave it a quick look and my idea will work. The user will be able to set the difficulty level they want for the following AI sensors for ships only:

- visual
- hydrophone
- radar
- sonar

Each sensor will have a difficulty rating of 0.0 - 1.0 with 0 being doesn't exist to 1 being 100% difficulty (current state of mod).

[PL_Andrev]

Each sensor will have a difficulty rating of 0.0 - 1.0 with 0 being doesn't exist to 1 being 100% difficulty (current state of mod).

I think about in at night and change the conception of difficulty level:
You have 4 difficulty levels for game (difficulty rating):
low (25%), medium (50%), hard (75%), real (100%)
But only this difficulty level change value of sensors.

No other issues (dud torpedoes, manual targeting, stabilize view) take you 20%. So, hard AI level with all issues gives 75%, without = 75-20 = 55%. New player will can try use 100% hard game (manual targeting, dud torpedoes, limit of air) with easy level of AI.
The question about CUSTOM level (difficulty level depend from original settings?).

And repaired automatic/manual targeting.

What do you think?

[tonschk]

:DL Thank you TheDarkWraith :yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

I think about in at night and change the conception of difficulty level:
You have 4 difficulty levels for game (difficulty rating):
low (25%), medium (50%), hard (75%), real (100%)
But only this difficulty level change value of sensors.

No other issues (dud torpedoes, manual targeting, stabilize view) take you 20%. So, hard AI level with all issues gives 75%, without = 75-20 = 55%. New player will can try use 100% hard game (manual targeting, dud torpedoes, limit of air) with easy level of AI.
The question about CUSTOM level (difficulty level depend from original settings?).

And repaired automatic/manual targeting.

What do you think?

not quite following you here. Are you saying to make something where one chooses the difficulty level they want for the AI based on 4 levels? If so, can't be implemented. The way I have to implement any kind of difficulty level will involve the user editing the init.aix file. Only way I've found to make this work so far.

[PL_Andrev]

IRAI ver. 0.0.16
- adjust sub crew AI's sweep time from 30 to 5 and sweep arc from 16 to 20 to give faster updates on hydrophone contacts
- adjusted sub crew AI's RPM detection level from 0.25 to 0.075 (crew will be able to detect slow moving contacts now)

Is this corresponding with Sober's hydrophone fix?
Sober used EPCGE file but this is no overwrited by IRAI...
:hmmm:


- adjusted the ability of ships to damage themselves from depth charges by changing the minimum depth they are allowed to release DCs

I do not understand...
The minimal depth attack by DC is corresponding with escort speed?
______________________

Stock bug spotted (tested no mods/IRAI):
On some escort ships hydro is not working (I attacked this convoy at full submerged speed (historic mission/Pedestal)
1.
Escorts on convoy with no hydro, other task force escorts have it:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6960/hydro1.png

2.
After AI antisubmarine support this same story:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4708/hydro2.png

[303_Michcich]

TDW,

As I cannot really use the manual targeting method using (ship lenght/time in seconds) *1,94 = speed in Kts as the ships do not seems to keep steady speed but varying speed (navigator is giving for example: speed 13 knots, avg speed 12 kts and couple of moments later speed 8 Kts, avg speed: 7kts), can you recommend what the best way of fully manual targetting is using IRAI ?

As said, I had not probelms hitting ships before IRAI on full real manual using method described in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164917

Also, thanks for coming up scalable difficulty idea !
mc

[303_Michcich]

TDW,

As I cannot really use the manual targeting method using (ship lenght/time in seconds) *1,94 = speed in Kts as the ships do not seems to keep steady speed but varying speed (navigator is giving for example: speed 13 knots, avg speed 12 kts and couple of moments later speed 8 Kts, avg speed: 7kts), can you recommend what the best way of fully manual targetting is using IRAI ?

As said, I had not probelms hitting ships before IRAI on full real manual using method described in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164917

Also, thanks for coming up scalable difficulty idea !
mc

TDW, sorry to be a pest, but... :) I have tested the manual tutorial mission by emtguf contained in the thread quoted above - there is single ship in distance of 4,000 m going towards my sub - I dived to persicope depth, all stop, no scopes and....the ship starts zigazagin at about 3,000 m from my sub - why is that ? they can`t see me, can they ? they can`t hear me as it`s all stop !

P.S. weather conditions in this mission are perfect, mid-day, sunny, all clear...

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, sorry to be a pest, but... :) I have tested the manual tutorial mission by emtguf contained in the thread quoted above - there is single ship in distance of 4,000 m going towards my sub - I dived to persicope depth, all stop, no scopes and....the ship starts zigazagin at about 3,000 m from my sub - why is that ? they can`t see me, can they ? they can`t hear me as it`s all stop !

P.S. weather conditions in this mission are perfect, mid-day, sunny, all clear...

I'll have to run that single mission and see what's going on.

Happy to report my idea of how to implement difficulty in the ship AI works beautifully! You can change the difficulty of the visual, hydrophone, sonar, and radar by adjusting the values in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix (can be opened with Notepad). Look for this section at top of file:

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;

[303_Michcich]

TDW,

As I cannot really use the manual targeting method using (ship lenght/time in seconds) *1,94 = speed in Kts as the ships do not seems to keep steady speed but varying speed (navigator is giving for example: speed 13 knots, avg speed 12 kts and couple of moments later speed 8 Kts, avg speed: 7kts), can you recommend what the best way of fully manual targetting is using IRAI ?

As said, I had not probelms hitting ships before IRAI on full real manual using method described in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164917

Also, thanks for coming up scalable difficulty idea !
mc

fantastic- thanks ! will test it asap. this refers to ship ai difficulty and NOT the escorts, right ?

Sorry, just downloaded 0.16 again, but difficulty settings seem not implemented yet ?

[TheDarkWraith]

fantastic- thanks ! will test it asap. this refers to ship ai difficulty and NOT the escorts, right ?

Sorry, just downloaded 0.16 again, but difficulty settings seem not implemented yet ?

correct. They are in v0.0.17 which I'm just getting ready to finish up.

These difficult settings apply to ALL ships. Hmm, but now you make me think about it maybe I can differentiate between different classes of vessels :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, sorry to be a pest, but... :) I have tested the manual tutorial mission by emtguf contained in the thread quoted above - there is single ship in distance of 4,000 m going towards my sub - I dived to persicope depth, all stop, no scopes and....the ship starts zigazagin at about 3,000 m from my sub - why is that ? they can`t see me, can they ? they can`t hear me as it`s all stop !

P.S. weather conditions in this mission are perfect, mid-day, sunny, all clear...

the reason the ship starts zig zagging is because you were spotted within the first 5 seconds of loading up that mission. Look at the grey shaded area on the TAI map.....you're in his visual 'zone' and thus you were detected. If a ship detects you it's not allowed to start zig-zagging until the distance between itself and the contact is < 3000m and it will stop zig-zagging when distance is >= 3000m. If you want to use that single mission then you need to adjust it so that you start submerged or wait till v0.0.17 releases and change the visual difficulty.
That single mission exposed a bug in my ship AI. I noticed that the merchant ship was being told to come and investigate the sub...:nope:...if anything it should be running away. Have to fix this.

[PL_Andrev]

Stock bug spotted (tested no mods/IRAI):
On some escort ships hydro is not working (I attacked this convoy at full submerged speed (historic mission/Pedestal)
1.
Escorts on convoy with no hydro, other task force escorts have it:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6960/hydro1.png



Hmmm.. strange...
Tested with IRAI.16 - I dive to 150 to protect from active sonar, but they hunted me... It looks like passive sonar is not show correctly...
:hmmm:

After start new Pedestal mission with IRAI.16...
1. Supply convoy with escort ships without passive sonar (used full speed at periscope depth very close to DD and they do not listen me).
2. After surfacing they are alarmed and start to hunt me,
3. They work as with worked passive sonar (but not shown on the map)
________________
Mods used to tests:
- Removed intro
- Environmnt 3.0
- AilSmoke 1.7
- GWX Compass Rose Grid
- IRAI 0.16
- Sober's hydrophone fix

[303_Michcich]

correct. They are in v0.0.17 which I'm just getting ready to finish up.

These difficult settings apply to ALL ships. Hmm, but now you make me think about it maybe I can differentiate between different classes of vessels :hmmm:


Great, thanks TDW ! that would be good idea - I think ships themselves should be relatively easy prey (no sensor, hydrophone ability - just some sort of visual, but one that allows to get close to them at night) plus cracking escorts to avenge - that would make the `das boot` experience...:)

[303_Michcich]

the reason the ship starts zig zagging is because you were spotted within the first 5 seconds of loading up that mission. Look at the grey shaded area on the TAI map.....you're in his visual 'zone' and thus you were detected. If a ship detects you it's not allowed to start zig-zagging until the distance between itself and the contact is < 3000m and it will stop zig-zagging when distance is >= 3000m. If you want to use that single mission then you need to adjust it so that you start submerged or wait till v0.0.17 releases and change the visual difficulty.
That single mission exposed a bug in my ship AI. I noticed that the merchant ship was being told to come and investigate the sub...:nope:...if anything it should be running away. Have to fix this.

thanks again

[TheDarkWraith]

well I bet your tonnage goes WAY down with v0.0.17. Due to the bug I discovered a few posts above I investigated my code. I found the problem and corrected it AND I added some new tactics to the merchants.

Let's look what used to happen (prior to v0.0.17):

merchant is steaming along, constant speed, following waypoints. You are ~2000m out from it and the merchant detects you. Merchant starts zig-zag pattern and goes to ahead flank speed. He continues this zig-zag pattern at ahead flank until he's in the safe zone distance. Boring :zzz:

now v0.0.17:

merchant is steaming along, constant speed, following waypoints. You are ~2000m out from it and the merchant detects you. If in zone 1 distance then it starts zig-zag pattern and changes speed to some random value. It waits some random period of time and then changes speed again. Process keeps repeating until it reaches zone 2 distance. If in zone 2 distance it chooses a new heading based on it's current heading + some random value AND chooses a new random speed. It waits some random period of time and then repeats the course and speed change. It keeps repeating this process until it reaches zones 3 distance. Once it gets to zone 3 distance (it's safe distance from you) it reverts back to following waypoints. Now that's exciting :D

[tonschk]

:DL Thank you TheDarkWraith :salute: , waiting for v0.0.17 :up:

[SteelViking]

For a single merchant, that sounds great! But, what about when they are in a convoy, will all of the merchants choose a random heading? That would cause the convoy to break up.

[TheDarkWraith]

For a single merchant, that sounds great! But, what about when they are in a convoy, will all of the merchants choose a random heading? That would cause the convoy to break up.

no worries...convoys will still act the way they did. This applies to only single merchant (or to be more correct a merchant that is it's own Commander)

[SteelViking]

no worries...convoys will still act the way they did. This applies to only single merchant (or to be more correct a merchant that is it's own Commander)

Ah, ok cool.:yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

Ah, ok cool.:yeah:

Yeah I thought about that too but found a way to make them behave like a convoy still when they are part of one :D

Merchants now have their own difficulty settings also:

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;


I gave you the ability to change the difficulty of the new merchant behavior in v0.0.17. These values can be found in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix. The new parameters added to control the single merchant's behavior in v0.0.17 are:
the below says that the merchant will start the familiar zig zag pattern when it detects you and you are <= 3000m (NOTE: this value is used in convoys also!)
MERCHANT_ZIGZAG_CONTACT_DISTANCE = 3000.0;
the below says that the merchant will go back to following it's waypoints when it's distance from you is >= 6000m
MERCHANT_CONTACT_DETECTED_WAYPOINTS_DISTANCE = 6000.0
the below is the base value of time for couse and speed changes. This value is also part of a Random function as the -min and max value of it. Value of Random function is added to base for final time (in minutes)
MERCHANT_CONTACT_DETECTED_COURSE_SPEED_CHANGE_TIME = 2.0
the below is the -min and max values of a Random function for determing the offset from current course for new course
MERCHANT_CONTACT_DETECTED_COURSE_CHANGE = 12.0
the below is the min value of a Random function for the speed change
MERCHANT_CONTACT_DETECTED_SPEED_CHANGE_MIN = 0.25
the below is the max value of the Random function above for the speed change
MERCHANT_CONTACT_DETECTED_SPEED_CHANGE_MAX = 1.0

need a few volunteers to test v0.0.17 before I release it as the changes are drastic from v0.0.16. PM me.

[TheDarkWraith]

ok volunteers not needed. Works absolutely beautiful :rock: Convoy will scatter as each merchant ship is taking their own evasive maneuvers and speed changes. As each merchant ship enters into the safe zone it regroups in the convoy where it originally was (position in convoy) :D Time to package up v0.0.17 for release

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.17 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[Kromus]

Just to be sure, if I want to change difficulty should I change any of these values between 0-1.0?

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

Nothing else needs to be changed there? No other values in init.aix?

[TheDarkWraith]

Just to be sure, if I want to change difficulty should I change any of these values between 0-1.0?

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

Nothing else needs to be changed there? No other values in init.aix?

that's all you have to change for difficulty. You decide how difficult you want each sensor of the ship's to be. Did I make it too easy :06: :DL

[Kromus]

that's all you have to change for difficulty. You decide how difficult you want each sensor of the ship's to be. Did I make it too easy :06: :DL

Ok, thx, just looked through that file and there are much more lines so I just wanted to be sure if it`s really that easy :)

[PL_Andrev]

"Pedestal" historic mission is the greatest mission for test!
Tested with IRAI 0.0.17 - "The dream of uboat commander"

All escort ships leave the most important targets: both aircrafts.
(escort tried to help to other task force, attacked by Italian battleship) - at this situation 2nd attacked group was farther than 20km...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1687/aircraft.jpg

[TheDarkWraith]

are you saying there's a problem or ???

[tonschk]

This is incredible :DL, Thank you very very much :rock: TheDarkWraith

[reaper7]

Totally Amazing. AI has some intelligence at last. :o

Cant wait to see the results of a wolfpack meeting a convoy. :yeah:

[PL_Andrev]

are you saying there's a problem or ???

:06:
This is the problem, this is the reason of my post in IRAI thread.

So, if all escort ships leave the main target who will protect the convoy or battleships or these aircrafts if they will be attacked from the other side?

Second - if one group need help then whole taskforce try to help, not only all taskforce's destroyers,

[TheDarkWraith]

Totally Amazing. AI has some intelligence at last. :o

Cant wait to see the results of a wolfpack meeting a convoy. :yeah:

good idea. I'll have to make a single mission of this based on the wolfpack mission I included in IRAI and see what happens :DL

[TheDarkWraith]

:06:
This is the problem, this is the reason of my post in IRAI thread.

So, if all escort ships leave the main target who will protect the convoy or battleships or these aircrafts if they will be attacked from the other side?

Second - if one group need help then whole taskforce try to help, not only all taskforce's destroyers,

that's what I thought you were hinting at. I can correct it but which way? Have escorts stay behind to protect 'commander'? If so, how many? Or do I have the 'commander' follow the escorts?

Because there are no merchants in the group it's a HK group which currently behaves much differently than non-HK groups. We just have to decide what behavior to make the HK groups do in this situation and I'll make the change. I'm personally leaning on having the 'commander' follow the escorts. Reason being: a small HK group could be 2 ships and thus it would be a little absurd to send one ship and leave one behind.

[Schultzy]

I'm personally leaning on having the 'commander' follow the escorts. Reason being: a small HK group could be 2 ships and thus it would be a little absurd to send one ship and leave one behind.

This may be a case of me showing my ignorance on all things technical, but would it be possible to have our cake and eat it too?

By that I mean, would it be possible that the AI makes a check for number of escorts and if the number is less than x, the commander follows, if greater than y, detach x amount, leave others to defend 'commander'?

Would that be feasible?

btw, you never cease to amaze me with what you're doing, Neal really needs to give you a Mod God custom title or some such thing. :rock:

Keep on going TDW, you're doing incredible work.

[TheDarkWraith]

This may be a case of me showing my ignorance on all things technical, but would it be possible to have our cake and eat it too?

By that I mean, would it be possible that the AI makes a check for number of escorts and if the number is less than x, the commander follows, if greater than y, detach x amount, leave others to defend 'commander'?

Would that be feasible?

certainly is feasible. Much more work on my part though but doable :DL I'm testing the 'commander' follow pack now.
Because it has no merchants by definition it's an HK group. Didn't HK groups send all ships to the contact they spotted?

[TheDarkWraith]

changes were made to AI to make the 'commander' stay with the group when a contact is spotted (applies only to HK groups). I was about 1500m off the starboard bow of a carrier when it detected me. The carrier was the 'commander' of the group and normally it would just continue steaming on course. Not now - that thing kicked it into high gear and turned towards me faster than I could order up ahead flank, turn, and dive. He just missed ramming me and thank god it didn't have any DCs. Which begs the question - Carriers didn't have any kind of DC equipment??
Moments later the group all gathered around me and proceeded to pound me into oblivion:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=364&pictureid=2908

I'll release v0.0.18 which contains this change for the 'commander'

[TheDarkWraith]

v0.0.18 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

Ok Antar, try your test mission again and see if you get the same results ;)

[longam]

I'm scared now.

Dang man this is a new game everyday! :up:

[tonschk]

I'm scared now.

Dang man this is a new game everyday! :up:


I'm scared too, this is a :up: new game everyhour :yeah:

[TheDarkWraith]

got a little sidetracked from adding the new tactics to the AI subs based on whether the contact it detected is merchant, warship, or another sub. Might have it done here tonight if not tomorrow :DL

[THE_MASK]

This may be helpful in working out tactics for the AI .
CERTSUB
PROBSUB
POSSUB
LOW CONFIDENCE
HIGH CONFIDENCE
NONSUB
I like it , possible ?
http://www.valoratsea.com/destroyer.htm

[TheDarkWraith]

possible....

So I was just out mowing the lawn and while riding the Deere it occurred to me that I might be able to make the airplane AI a little more interesting. Since the ships now change course and speed when they detect you, why can't the airplanes change altitude to dodge the bullets being thrown at it? I'm going to look into trying to make this happen also.

[THE_MASK]

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/9228/deerracing14547.jpg (http://img815.imageshack.us/i/deerracing14547.jpg/)

[Krauter]

Thank God for John Deere and good old Inventiveness :har:

[TheDarkWraith]

this is terrible :nope: Just got done adding tactics to the AI subs for dealing with enemy subs. Made a test mission with 2 british Undine subs. Increased TC level till I had the enemy subs in range. Enemy subs haven't detected me yet. I keep TC level and let them get closer and closer. Still haven't detected me yet. I let them get to 500m of me and they still haven't detected me yet. I collide with one of them, it takes damage but still doesn't detect me yet :down: I fire the deck gun at the other one and it takes damage but still hasn't detected me yet. Sounds like we have a sensor problem with the AI sub Undine. No wonder why they are dumber than a box of rocks in the stock game. They can't hear or see anything :damn:

[Sepp von Ch.]

IRAI 0.0.18 is perfect! Thank you!

[PL_Andrev]

I'll release v0.0.18 which contains this change for the 'commander'

Solution doesn't work. Played included in SH5 the Pedestal mission with IRAI 0.18 and I had hunted two alone aircraft carriers.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4061/carrier.png

After first attack, the 2nd carrier try to escape with zig-zag course... (one problem more solved :up:) but carrier was too slow (not full speed).


Second issue:
When taskforce is attacked by planes, the escort have a counter-course to aircrafts, heavy units not (it looks good on the first minutes of included in SH5 the Pedestal mission)
My proposal (if possible): keep formation (to high AA fire) and counter-course (avoid torpedoes from planes), zigzag if more attacking planes:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6350/forcea.png

[The General]

I'm afraid that Merchants are slowing to almost a complete stop once they spot you. I have only your AI Mod installed.

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm afraid that Merchants are slowing to almost a complete stop once they spot you. I have only your AI Mod installed.

they possibly can now. It's a random value that the speed is set to at a Random period of time. Increase TC and see what happens ;)

[The General]

...Oooh I see, they call up Air-Support, VERY nice :DL

[The General]

Woah, two hurricanes destroyed my pressure hull in under two minutes, with machine guns?! I don't think their ammo is of sufficient calibre to penetrate the pressure hull :-? Do planes not drop bombs in the early War?

[TheDarkWraith]

Woah, two hurricanes destroyed my hull in under two minutes with machine guns! I don't think that's right :-? Do planes not drop bombs in the early War?

he he he...IRAI claims another victim :D

[THE_MASK]

If i do the Pedestal mission i cannot pick up any contacts . If i do Past the rock mission contacts are fine . Is it because they are moving too slow in Pedestal or because friendly or something else ?

[Krauter]

Oh my god.. This Mod is.. KILLER :dead:v:o

Patrolling to the west of Ireland in 42', I think I ran into Force H.. Strong DD presence (8-10) one Ark Royal Carrier, one Queen Elizabeth Battleship and one Sheffield class Cruiser.

Headding SSE at 17knts and I'm to their SSW. So I go to the surface, and prepare an ambush 50km up their expected track. So, when the force is in sight (good visibility, choppy seas, 1:36 PM). Now I go to 100M, and track (well.. cheat external cam :D )

So I aim to be in between the Arc Royal and the Queen Elizabeth. now, I end up in position, but the minute I poke the scope up all hell breaks loose. Everyone immediately becomes aware of my presence and I have so many active sonars bouncing off my hull its incessant. Take a snapshot at the Battleship (had been making a firing solution via hydrophone.. but had trouble because the TDC was acting up..) and then turned to shoot at the carrier when I saw the Cruiser bearing down on me!

Now I said screw it and dove to 150M. Once past 90M I heard three consecutive blasts and thought, great I killed the battleship. Well.. the tin cans didnt like that.. I played cat and mouse and could clearly see the Carrier slipping away while they pinned me down.. So I ket inching my escapes towards that direction. That lasted a total of 15 minutes where the DDs forced me down to 175M.

Going to see how pissed off the DDs were I went to external cam. Suddenly three explosions rocked the HK group. Three seperate Frigates had DC'd themselves to death where they dropped and then stopped and took the full blast up the rear.. (I think the problem is is that they dropped and then reverted to HK Commander or "Overwatch"?) Now looking directly over my sub, I could see the cruiser making constant (precision) runs over my position.. well thank god he didnt have Depth Charges because for everypass a frigate/destroyer made, he made three. I don't really know if this is a bug or not, but just wanted to point it out.

Now I don't know what got me, but being forced down to 220M was not a good thing. Maybe it was the Depth Charge.. maybe it was a Hedgehog.. maybe it was even my good old Hamburg hull letting go because of the pressure.. but damn straight will be my answer if you ask me if that is the first time I crapped my pants in SH5 :D

Kudos to you TDW! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go change my pants..

Krauter

[PL_Andrev]

If i do the Pedestal mission i cannot pick up any contacts . If i do Past the rock mission contacts are fine . Is it because they are moving too slow in Pedestal or because friendly or something else ?

Pedestal mission starts at 6.30, I have hydrophone contact near 9.00 with your hydrophone fix on surface (realistic sensors are OFF). My position is as 3rd ship in last line of Italian taskforce at right side (it protect me from enemy planes by taskforce's high AA fire).

Mods used:
RemoveLogo by TDW
Environment 3.0
Enhaced ship recon manual
GWX Compass rose
Sober's hydro fix
IRAI 0.18

[Zedi]

...Three seperate Frigates had DC'd themselves to death where they dropped and then stopped and took the full blast up the rear.. (I think the problem is is that they dropped and then reverted to HK Commander or "Overwatch"?) ...
I saw this in the wolfpack mission just yesterday. And the capital ships have the tendencies to run slowly backward. Also, something is wrong with the escort AI behavior in that mission as they dodge the wolfpack soon as they become aware of the subs presence. So all the hard job is done by the merchants who are left completely alone. But the AI reacts on the players sub, soon as they spoted me, they race to my position :hmmm:

[PL_Andrev]

I saw this in the wolfpack mission just yesterday.

This is another wolfpack mission, there are two wolfpack group and they attack small convoy and small taskforce. Magnum did not update DDS (image) file with true units location.

Anyway, thanks Magnum for new wolfpack mission!
:up:

[Ragtag]

Ok, so i've seen a really strange behaviour now. I've met several convoy's and as soon as i hit my first target the whole convoy slows down to 0-3 knots. Happens every time with the latest version. It's like a turkey shoot. I can sink 10-12 ships every time... byebye to big tonnage numbers you say?:woot:

btw, is it possible for you to do something about the rediculous accuracy the merchant gunners has?
Great job taking on the AI. It's really needed :)

[Kromus]

btw, is it possible for you to do something about the rediculous accuracy the merchant gunners has?
Great job taking on the AI. It's really needed :)

Open sim.cfg and edit

[AI Cannons] (for cannons)
.
.
Max error angle=xxx

[AI AA guns] (for machine guns)
.
.
Max error angle=xxx

Higher number means less accuracy (I`m currently using 7 and 8).

[TheDarkWraith]

I saw this in the wolfpack mission just yesterday. And the capital ships have the tendencies to run slowly backward. Also, something is wrong with the escort AI behavior in that mission as they dodge the wolfpack soon as they become aware of the subs presence. So all the hard job is done by the merchants who are left completely alone. But the AI reacts on the players sub, soon as they spoted me, they race to my position :hmmm:

I'll have to run the new wolfpack mission and see what's going on. At least one escort should've been staying behind to protect convoy. Or this mission wasn't setup as a group and thus every ship is it's own commander and would explain everything.


Going to see how pissed off the DDs were I went to external cam. Suddenly three explosions rocked the HK group. Three seperate Frigates had DC'd themselves to death where they dropped and then stopped and took the full blast up the rear

They must be trying to go into reverse? That's the only way I can see them detonating the DCs. I'll have to put a condition in that says if their speed is > some value then they are allowed to DC. I'm just puzzled as to how they are blowing themselves up. In this example you were clearly deep and thus the DCs had to be going deep also.