[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI)

[Zedi]

The difficulty is the essence of this mod. I want them to be hardcore, but not forever. Maybe their mom can call them home for a tea after a while...

[THE_MASK]

The difficulty is the essence of this mod. I want them to be hardcore, but not forever. Maybe their mom can call them home for a tea after a while...Your idea is good though , the more options the better . As long as it is an option though .

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, is possible to make a time limit for the HK groups? I mean, 20 hours (or more) of cat &mouse play is way to much for a game. It's realistic, but I dont see anybody able to spend 20 hours of their lifetime into a game trying to dodge some AI that wont give up hunting you. I'm thinking about something like.. if no TC used, set hunt limit to 1 - 2 hours, then loose contact.

there are two possible ways you could do this. One is to cut the time they can search for you and/or the other way is increase fatigue over time. These values can be found in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix

To cut time they can search for you play with these values (below are all in seconds):
# Hunter-Killer group spiral search time upon lost contact
HK_SPIRAL_MIN_SEARCH_TIME = 180.0; # used as min value of a Random function
HK_SPIRAL_MAX_SEARCH_TIME = 420.0; # used as max value of a Random function
# Hunter-Killer group wait time inbetween spiral searches
INVESTIGATE_FOLLOW_WAYPOINTS_TIME = 990.0; # 15 mins (90 to account for CONTACT_LOST_BEGIN_SEARCH_TIME)
# for escorts that are guarding convoy but attacking a contact, this is the time they can keep attacking when contact is lost
PLASTER_GUARD_CONVOY_DC_WAYPOINTS = 360.0;
# this is the time that if a unit is a director and the contact lost time >
# MAX_CONTACT_LOST_DC_TIME it waits until contact lost time is this value before
# heading back to convoy and following it's waypoints (not part of HK group)
DIRECTOR_SEARCH_TIME = 900.0; # 15 mins
CONVOY_ESCORT_SPIRAL_TIME = 600.0;

to play with fatigue adjust these values:
############### watch rotation and fatigue #####################
SHIPWATCHROTATION = 180; # in minutes (there are 4 tiers of fatigue) this is a base time
SHIPFATIGUEMIN = 0.5; # min time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUEMAX = 1.5; # max time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMIN = 0.015; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMAX = 0.03; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMIN = 0.025; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMAX = 0.05; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMIN = 0.035; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMAX = 0.07; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMIN = 0.045; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMAX = 0.09; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged

I personally would play with the fatigue numbers. I would increase all of them 0.025 at a time and test until I got what I was looking for. The fatigue numbers above reduce the sensor effectiveness of the ship's sensors by the amount shown on each tier change of fatigue. If you want them to enter fatigue faster then adjust SHIPWATCHROTATION to a small number.

[PL_Andrev]

TDW, is possible to make a time limit for the HK groups? I mean, 20 hours (or more) of cat &mouse play is way to much for a game. It's realistic, but I dont see anybody able to spend 20 hours of their lifetime into a game trying to dodge some AI that wont give up hunting you. I'm thinking about something like.. if no TC used, set hunt limit to 1 - 2 hours, then loose contact.

http://www.forum.polishseamen.pl/images/smiles/drapanie.gif
I do not understand - what is the problem?

If you're seriously damaged then you have right.
But what is the problem with escape 1kt or less at 200-220 meters with silent run? This is only 3-10 hours (depend from speed).
They are following your current position when you are into the deep? I don't think so.

This is HK group to hunt you but not convoy's escort - they know that you are very close...

But that is true that they shouldn't try to hunt much time. I think 6 hours is max time.

Non-real game is bad. But a real game is bad too?
:timeout:

[Zedi]

Im playing in 1944 and is no way to escape, things are pretty different from 39. Decoys, 1ktn under 220m.. u name it, they just dont give up. And I don't use TC in battle, so after 1-2 hours of dodging dc's... I go play something else. I love the full realism and simulation, but spending hours of my life looking to a virtual sub hull, is too hardcore even for my taste.

[PL_Andrev]

At least you know why the Nazi Germany lost the war... and why the stock game ends at 1943...
:)

But you're right. It is known problem at SH3 patrols: if elite level destroyer find you - you're already dead.

[TheDarkWraith]

Im playing in 1944 and is no way to escape, things are pretty different from 39. Decoys, 1ktn under 220m.. u name it, they just dont give up. And I don't use TC in battle, so after 1-2 hours of dodging dc's... I go play something else. I love the full realism and simulation, but spending hours of my life looking to a virtual sub hull, is too hardcore even for my taste.

did you try adjusting the difficulty levels and/or the fatigue? :06:

[Zedi]

did you try adjusting the difficulty levels and/or the fatigue? :06:

No, I have hard time to find time even to finish my work on extended campaign. But something is different after 43.. I'm not 100% sure on this, but the AI and the whole dynamic campaign works a bit different than "usual". There are many convoys that now have carriers for escort and the HK's are really pissed off. They can detect you very fast from far away and diving at high depth is not anymore the key to escape for a sub.

Like Antar said, we will learn why the u-boats lost the battle of Atlantic as after 43 attacking a convoy and also staying alive was a big achievement already. But spending more time to escape that hunt will kill the "fun", realistic play or not.

[rascal101]

Ok I have now got egg on my face - finally met an escorted convoy - not a hunter killer group, one destroyer was out in front - sank a freighter, was very slack about getting out of the area - Boy did I make a mistake these guys 4 escorts stayed with me and eventually sunk me

Now heres the thing - this was early late 1939 - surly these guys should not have been that persistent, nor their sensors that reliable this early in the war - no matter what I did they just hung with me and continually dropped their cans right on me.

I can accept this behaviour later in the war, say early 44 onwards but in 1939 seems a little too good - Any thoughts is this mod perhaps tweaked too high - or was there something particular about this group of ecorts?

My attack was midway between UK and Ireland, in about 150m depth - incidently sitting on the bottom, dead stop with silent running didnt seem to affect the escorts, surely it should be harder for them to detect me if I am stopped and sitting on the bottom in silent running

Also

Have just updated some mods - now I'm getting severe slow-downs or game freezes- for up to a second - is particularly noticeable when the flares go up - or when panningquickly - I have a quad core, and did not encounter this previously

Also with the mods listed below I've noticed when using the deck gun that the flash when I score a hit is now square, not rounded, it has squares like the graphics card is not coping with the workload. Something's going on with the graphics load - any ideas?

Here is a list of m activated mods- red highlights are mods that are clashing with other mods, any ideas re redundant mods or changing the order

Cerberus62 Additional Merchant Ships 1.0
Cerberus62 Historical Ship Equipment 1.2
EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools for SH5 v. 01.01 by AvM
Loading Screens Mod 2.0
Shadow Improvement Mod
sobers no shoe sound mod
sobers talking conning crew mod
SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod
SV&Com Underwater Mod
Wordeees' Actual Footage Menu V2
U-Boat Watch Crew Routine SFX
German U-Boat Hydrophone SFX
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
Unterseeboot SFX
U-Boat Ballast Tanks SFX
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.4
Old Style Explosions V1.1
Nauticalwolf's Damage and Torpedo UI (b) Mod V1.1
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2
AirTorpedoes
ImprovedWaves_Improved Pitch&Roll
Enhanced FunelSmoke_by HanSolo78
Ui-Boat V2.2
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51
A Fistful of Emblems v1.51 (Weathered)
FX_Update_0_0_9_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_9_UHS_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_9_BARF_1_3_Full_Fix
IRAI_0_0_29_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_29_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
Environment 4.7 MOD
sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 V10

[Hoster]

Hello folks,
Sometimes the destroyers behave in a very strange matter, I will call them Phantom destroyers, because it is absolutely impossible to get rid of them. After attacking a convoi in early `41 all but one destroyer lost contact with my sub, but this destrover is circling in the vicinity of around 2 or 3 miles around my position. It must be a bug, because the vessel is not attacking- so far so good- fact is, that it is not possible to surface, because then he is charging, so i have to give up after some days because of the batterie level and the CO2 amount. I have the Irai Mod installed. Has somebody else encountered such strange things? It makes the game more or less unplayable...

[Trevally.]

its a game bug.

you need to save and reload. he will then sail away:up:

[Petr]

Has anyone already tried to adjust fatigue, as TDW wrote few posts earlier? If yes, can you post here adjusted values? I tried to change them as well, but it had not effect.

[rascal101]

HI Mr TDW
Have decided to experiment with changeing Watch Rotation and fiddle with fatigue as you suggest - am flying a bit blind as I dont know exactly what I am doing- the idea is to play and test till I find something that works

So my first attempt has been to change SHIPWATCHROTATION from 180 to 125 and see what happens - if you can offer any more information that would be great

Is it possible to set these so the game AI gets better in stages as you play - so in 1939 the Escort AI is fairly soft, and then as the game years progress the AI gets better and better - Any ideas any one

Regards
Rascal

there are two possible ways you could do this. One is to cut the time they can search for you and/or the other way is increase fatigue over time. These values can be found in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix

To cut time they can search for you play with these values (below are all in seconds):
# Hunter-Killer group spiral search time upon lost contact
HK_SPIRAL_MIN_SEARCH_TIME = 180.0; # used as min value of a Random function
HK_SPIRAL_MAX_SEARCH_TIME = 420.0; # used as max value of a Random function
# Hunter-Killer group wait time inbetween spiral searches
INVESTIGATE_FOLLOW_WAYPOINTS_TIME = 990.0; # 15 mins (90 to account for CONTACT_LOST_BEGIN_SEARCH_TIME)
# for escorts that are guarding convoy but attacking a contact, this is the time they can keep attacking when contact is lost
PLASTER_GUARD_CONVOY_DC_WAYPOINTS = 360.0;
# this is the time that if a unit is a director and the contact lost time >
# MAX_CONTACT_LOST_DC_TIME it waits until contact lost time is this value before
# heading back to convoy and following it's waypoints (not part of HK group)
DIRECTOR_SEARCH_TIME = 900.0; # 15 mins
CONVOY_ESCORT_SPIRAL_TIME = 600.0;

to play with fatigue adjust these values:
############### watch rotation and fatigue #####################
SHIPWATCHROTATION = 180; # in minutes (there are 4 tiers of fatigue) this is a base time
SHIPFATIGUEMIN = 0.5; # min time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUEMAX = 1.5; # max time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMIN = 0.015; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMAX = 0.03; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMIN = 0.025; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMAX = 0.05; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMIN = 0.035; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMAX = 0.07; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMIN = 0.045; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMAX = 0.09; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged

I personally would play with the fatigue numbers. I would increase all of them 0.025 at a time and test until I got what I was looking for. The fatigue numbers above reduce the sensor effectiveness of the ship's sensors by the amount shown on each tier change of fatigue. If you want them to enter fatigue faster then adjust SHIPWATCHROTATION to a small number.

[Mikemike47]

video of airplane making torpedo run on sub:
http://www.filefront.com/16921535/AITorpBombers.7z/


Link is stated on post 1. Does not work. Attempted numerous times.

[TheDarkWraith]

Link is stated on post 1. Does not work. Attempted numerous times.

Link in post #1 for airplane making torpedo run updated :up:

[SashaKA001]

Link in post #1 for airplane making torpedo run updated :up:

for 4 seconds, and further solidifies seen only excerpts, and yet I have not once attacked with torpedoes and always pass, always! torpedo passed since I was at speed. could be done with no cue-ahead.

[rascal101]

Question for TheDarkWraith

OK have tested this and sadly it does not seem to change the super magical behaviour of the Escorts- OK its Nov 1939 - I come across a single escrot on patrol off SW coast UK -medium fog- crash dived to avoid surface encounter - then spent the next 16-20 hrs game time avoiding the Escort - 160m depth silent running -

No manouvers seemed to shake it kept my bow and stern always to the destroyer where possible - indeed sometimes the detroyer would go away and I almost thought I'd won, then out the blue he would just appear in the distance and sail right over me and start the whole game all over again - just doing circles over me with at least one part of the circle right on top of me


I then tried surfacing to loose him in the fog - even though I was beyond his visual range no matter how many direction changes I made, while out side his line of site in fog he still just altered course to match my own - as if the fog was not there and her could see me quite clearly - dont forget its 1939 so no radar.

This leads me to suspect this mod is flawed - though I mean no ill will to TDW I have tried messing with certain parramaters of this mod - I re-set the SHIPWATCHROTATION from 180 to 125 with no apparent change in behavior

Mr TDW - you have provided some of the best mods for this game - however the Escort AI seems to be tweaked way too high -
I would stress the above encounter took place in Nov 1939 - so ASDIC and SONAR are either non existent or primitive, and there would not have been any radar either.

And yet this escort was able to find me no matter what I did, submerged or on the surface, the fog made no difference even though according to the date and technology avaliabel at the time simulated both the escort and I should have only had dead reconging and visual tracking

Please Mr TDW can you have another look at this fantastic mod, its good but not yet realistic

Best Regards to all Subsimmers and dont forget to dontate - I tipped in $10 over the weekend - keep Subsim afloat!

Rascal

there are two possible ways you could do this. One is to cut the time they can search for you and/or the other way is increase fatigue over time. These values can be found in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix

To cut time they can search for you play with these values (below are all in seconds):
# Hunter-Killer group spiral search time upon lost contact
HK_SPIRAL_MIN_SEARCH_TIME = 180.0; # used as min value of a Random function
HK_SPIRAL_MAX_SEARCH_TIME = 420.0; # used as max value of a Random function
# Hunter-Killer group wait time inbetween spiral searches
INVESTIGATE_FOLLOW_WAYPOINTS_TIME = 990.0; # 15 mins (90 to account for CONTACT_LOST_BEGIN_SEARCH_TIME)
# for escorts that are guarding convoy but attacking a contact, this is the time they can keep attacking when contact is lost
PLASTER_GUARD_CONVOY_DC_WAYPOINTS = 360.0;
# this is the time that if a unit is a director and the contact lost time >
# MAX_CONTACT_LOST_DC_TIME it waits until contact lost time is this value before
# heading back to convoy and following it's waypoints (not part of HK group)
DIRECTOR_SEARCH_TIME = 900.0; # 15 mins
CONVOY_ESCORT_SPIRAL_TIME = 600.0;

to play with fatigue adjust these values:
############### watch rotation and fatigue #####################
SHIPWATCHROTATION = 180; # in minutes (there are 4 tiers of fatigue) this is a base time
SHIPFATIGUEMIN = 0.5; # min time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUEMAX = 1.5; # max time of current tier (ShipWatchRotation / 4) when next tier starts
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMIN = 0.015; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONCRUISEMAX = 0.03; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in cruise
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMIN = 0.025; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONALERTMAX = 0.05; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in alert
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMIN = 0.035; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDMAX = 0.07; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMIN = 0.045; # min sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged
SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONDAMAGEDALERTMAX = 0.09; # max sensor reduction amount for each tier in damaged

I personally would play with the fatigue numbers. I would increase all of them 0.025 at a time and test until I got what I was looking for. The fatigue numbers above reduce the sensor effectiveness of the ship's sensors by the amount shown on each tier change of fatigue. If you want them to enter fatigue faster then adjust SHIPWATCHROTATION to a small number.

[TheDarkWraith]

Question for TheDarkWraith

OK have tested this and sadly it does not seem to change the super magical behaviour of the Escorts- OK its Nov 1939 - I come across a single escrot on patrol off SW coast UK -medium fog- crash dived to avoid surface encounter - then spent the next 16-20 hrs game time avoiding the Escort - 160m depth silent running -

No manouvers seemed to shake it kept my bow and stern always to the destroyer where possible - indeed sometimes the detroyer would go away and I almost thought I'd won, then out the blue he would just appear in the distance and sail right over me and start the whole game all over again - just doing circles over me with at least one part of the circle right on top of me


I then tried surfacing to loose him in the fog - even though I was beyond his visual range no matter how many direction changes I made, while out side his line of site in fog he still just altered course to match my own - as if the fog was not there and her could see me quite clearly - dont forget its 1939 so no radar.

This leads me to suspect this mod is flawed - though I mean no ill will to TDW I have tried messing with certain parramaters of this mod - I re-set the SHIPWATCHROTATION from 180 to 125 with no apparent change in behavior

Mr TDW - you have provided some of the best mods for this game - however the Escort AI seems to be tweaked way too high -
I would stress the above encounter took place in Nov 1939 - so ASDIC and SONAR are either non existent or primitive, and there would not have been any radar either.

And yet this escort was able to find me no matter what I did, submerged or on the surface, the fog made no difference even though according to the date and technology avaliabel at the time simulated both the escort and I should have only had dead reconging and visual tracking

Please Mr TDW can you have another look at this fantastic mod, its good but not yet realistic

Best Regards to all Subsimmers and dont forget to dontate - I tipped in $10 over the weekend - keep Subsim afloat!

Rascal

set the sonar and hyrophone difficulty settings for escorts to 0.85 (leave all merchant difficulty settings at 1.0). Put the fatigue back to where it was. If it's still too hard adjust those values by subtracting 0.025 increments at a time. If it's too easy adjust those values by adding 0.025 increments at a time.

[TheDarkWraith]

So my first attempt has been to change SHIPWATCHROTATION from 180 to 125 and see what happens - if you can offer any more information that would be great

Is it possible to set these so the game AI gets better in stages as you play - so in 1939 the Escort AI is fairly soft, and then as the game years progress the AI gets better and better - Any ideas any one

Regards
Rascal

the devs didn't provide any way to get the current date thus there's no way to change AI behavior based on date. It's very limited what one can do with the ship AI (the sub AI is even worse and the airplane AI is pitiful).

Here's how the fatigue works:

the fatigue system has 4 levels. When a ship first spawns in game it's at fatigue level 1, a new watch crew has taken over and has no fatigue. All the sensors for that ship are at 100% capability (that's capability not sensor effectivess - two different things. A sensor can have a sensor effectiveness of 0.75 but be at 100% capability. As capability degrades it reduces the sensor effectiveness). A base tier time is defined as base ship watch rotation time +- ( 0.25 * base watch rotation ). Each level of fatigue uses this base tier time * random( SHIPFATIGUEMIN, SHIPFATIGUEMAX ) to get a random amount of time for each level of fatigue.
When a new fatigue level is started the ship's sensors are reduced by a random amount between SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONxMIN and SHIPFATIGUESENSORREDUCTIONxMAX. After all 4 fatigue levels are done a fresh watch crew takes over and the ship's sensors are put back to 100% effectiveness and the cycle repeats.

[Itkovian]

A few questions:

- For the mod to work, should I return to port and sail out again?

- Having just installed the mod and loading an ongoing patrol, my conning tower seems to have sprouted a new antennae (a circular one, not sure what it is - radar? radar detector?). Is that part of the mod, or a bug?

- Does your mod change behavior when ships take damage? Due to conflict I had to remove the Damage Assessment mod (which causes ships to slow down after taking hits), and wonder if yours does something else to make damaged ships behave more realistically (I see in your notes that it does cause speed to decrease, at the very least).

Thank you.

Itkovian

[TheDarkWraith]

A few questions:

- For the mod to work, should I return to port and sail out again?

- Having just installed the mod and loading an ongoing patrol, my conning tower seems to have sprouted a new antennae (a circular one, not sure what it is - radar? radar detector?). Is that part of the mod, or a bug?

- Does your mod change behavior when ships take damage? Due to conflict I had to remove the Damage Assessment mod (which causes ships to slow down after taking hits), and wonder if yours does something else to make damaged ships behave more realistically (I see in your notes that it does cause speed to decrease, at the very least).

Thank you.

Itkovian

I would always install/remove mods in port.
The new antenna is the radio DF loop. It is part of the mod. You will also notice another antenna when you submerge. That is the radio antenna.
The mod changes all aspects of AI behavior.

[Itkovian]

Hum, is it too late for me now that the mod is already installed? Or would just going back to port and leaving again "reset" things so all is well?

As for the DF loop, is that a historical mod? As in something our subs were missing that real Type VIIs had? Does it have gameplay impacts, or is it a cosmetic change for realism?

Thank you.

Itkovian

[TheDarkWraith]

Hum, is it too late for me now that the mod is already installed? Or would just going back to port and leaving again "reset" things so all is well?

As for the DF loop, is that a historical mod? As in something our subs were missing that real Type VIIs had? Does it have gameplay impacts, or is it a cosmetic change for realism?

Thank you.

Itkovian

I wouldn't make any changes till you're back in port again.
DF was installed on subs. I attached a DF sensor to it so it has purpose :up:

[Itkovian]

Allright. I think I have a savegame for when I was in port (since I'm just starting Happy Times).

Otherwise, should I just reapply the mods I had before (disable this one), sail back to port, save, then apply this mod and set off?

Also, what does leaving the merchant sensors to 1.0 do? Does it work like non-merchant, in that 1.0 means they can detect you at all times?

Itkovian

[TheDarkWraith]

Allright. I think I have a savegame for when I was in port (since I'm just starting Happy Times).

Otherwise, should I just reapply the mods I had before (disable this one), sail back to port, save, then apply this mod and set off?

Also, what does leaving the merchant sensors to 1.0 do? Does it work like non-merchant, in that 1.0 means they can detect you at all times?

Itkovian

a 1.0 setting doesn't mean they can detect you at all times. It means their sensor effectiveness for that sensor is 100%. Any value less than 1.0 degrades their sensor effectiveness and thus makes it harder for them to detect you with that sensor.

Sail back to port, save, then apply the mod and set off is recommended.

[Itkovian]

How does the DF work with this mod? Is it automatic, or do I need to do something to activate it?

Itkovian

[TheDarkWraith]

How does the DF work with this mod? Is it automatic, or do I need to do something to activate it?

Itkovian

Totally automatic :up:

[Itkovian]

Thank you for the help, the mod seems to be working well. :)

That said, I did try the wolfpack mission, and I am sorry to say that the U-boats remain on the surface for far too long, and only submerged once the leader (I presume it was the leader) had been destroyed by the escort's guns.

The good news is that the escorts then proceeded to sink even the submerged u-boats, so that definitely works well (and also sank me when I decided to be stupid *grin*).

Itkovian

[Bilge_Rat]

A bit late, but I spent some time testing out IRAI 0.29 in the PQ-17 mission, with map updates/external views on, AI difficulty 1.0.

This is just preliminary, but overall it is a nice step forward, thank you TDW for all the hard work. Sensor ranges look reasonable, I was able to approach an escort on the surface within 3,000 meters (dusk, light fog) without being spotted (even though I could make it out clearly in the binos), making sure my speed was low enough so the U-Boat stayed out of the passive hydrophone range.

I then submerged and sank the escort to see how the other escorts would react. I dove to 160 meters, silent running, but was picked up quickly. In external view, it was nice to see the escorts using proper tactics, with one sitting motionless close to my position listening, while the others started DC runs.

What I was less happy to see was that all the convoy escorts, around 15+, ran over to my position and milled around in a gaggle over my boat while the convoy sailed on totally defenceless. Ideally, there should only be 1-3 escorts that would peel off to attack while the rest stayed with the convoy. That was pretty much the standard practice in 1939-43.

I dont know if this is a one off thing, since I will retest with the AI at 0.85, but just thought I would mention it.

[TheDarkWraith]

What I was less happy to see was that all the convoy escorts, around 15+, ran over to my position and milled around in a gaggle over my boat while the convoy sailed on totally defenceless. Ideally, there should only be 1-3 escorts that would peel off to attack while the rest stayed with the convoy. That was pretty much the standard practice in 1939-43.

I dont know if this is a one off thing, since I will retest with the AI at 0.85, but just thought I would mention it.

PQ-17 is a bad single mission to use for testing like this. If you look at it in the mission editor the convoy has no escorts assigned to it. Thus the behavior you saw is expected (the escorts are a HK group). I can assure you that if the escorts were assigned to the convoy most of them would stay with the convoy.

[Bilge_Rat]

PQ-17 is a bad single mission to use for testing like this. If you look at it in the mission editor the convoy has no escorts assigned to it. Thus the behavior you saw is expected (the escorts are a HK group). I can assure you that if the escorts were assigned to the convoy most of them would stay with the convoy.

thanks for the reply.

[Bilge_Rat]

New version! v0.0.29



v0.0.29 available here: http://www.filefront.com/17447024/IRAI-0-0-29-TheDarkWraith.7z/
NOTE: because of the new features of fatigue and crew watch rotations for the ship AI it is recommended to leave all the difficulty levels at 1.0




another question. I have seen other posts that the sonar/hydrophone difficulty level should be set at 0.85-0.90 while TDW's original post mentions leaving everything at 1.0 with v0.0.29. Which is correct?

[stoianm]

another question. I have seen other posts that the sonar/hydrophone difficulty level should be set at 0.85-0.90 while TDW's original post mentions leaving everything at 1.0 with v0.0.29. Which is correct?

Depends how good you think that you are. TDW said:

Difficulty is from 0.0 to 1.0 with 1.0 meaning 100% difficulty. I recommend adjusting only the highlighted values. If you are a beginner I would recommend values of 0.8-0.85 for those highlighted. If you are an intermediate I would recommend 0.85-0.9 for those values. If you are an expert I would recommend 0.9-1.0 for those values.

Best regars! (if you are good enough and use real nav maybe you have time to read here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179643)

All the best!:up:

[Magic1111]

Depends how good you think that you are. TDW said:

Difficulty is from 0.0 to 1.0 with 1.0 meaning 100% difficulty. I recommend adjusting only the highlighted values. If you are a beginner I would recommend values of 0.8-0.85 for those highlighted. If you are an intermediate I would recommend 0.85-0.9 for those values. If you are an expert I would recommend 0.9-1.0 for those values.

Best regars! (if you are good enough and use real nav maybe you have time to read here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179643)

All the best!:up:

Now I use these:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.85; <-------------------
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.85; <-------------------
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;


Best regards,
Magic

[stoianm]

Now I use these:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.925; <-------------------
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.925; <-------------------
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

+ real nav + realism 100% ant it rock:rock::rock::rock:

(note - sober is my teacher from naval academy):salute:

[Magic1111]

Now I use these:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.925; <-------------------
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.925; <-------------------
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

+ real nav + realism 100% ant it rock:rock::rock::rock:

(note - sober is my teacher from naval academy):salute:

I don´t play with RealNav, because I´ve not time to learn this...:wah:

stoianm, for further information see my PM....:03:

[Bilge_Rat]

danke all.

[TheDarkWraith]

thinking about making a change to the AI behavior (ships). What I'm thinking is that if the ship has no DCs or hedgehogs (or it runs out of them) and it's not a Director then it will resume following waypoints. This would cure the problem of the endless destroyer/escort continually zipping over your spot when they have nothing to drop. Thoughts :06:

Any other ideas/suggestions?

[stoianm]

thinking about making a change to the AI behavior (ships). What I'm thinking is that if the ship has no DCs or hedgehogs (or it runs out of them) and it's not a Director then it will resume following waypoints. This would cure the problem of the endless destroyer/escort continually zipping over your spot when they have nothing to drop. Thoughts :06:

Any other ideas/suggestions?

Very, very good ideea. That is the bad part of IRA (DDa coming after you forever - i had once 2 DDs that were follwed me until the entrance of kiel kanal:haha: - even they have no dept charges to throu) - if you change that you will make my day!:rock:

[THE_MASK]

The only idea i have LOL is the user can assign a set of numbers to the difficulty perameters and the game would pick a number between the two randomly .
eg:
################################################## ###############
###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = (Between 0.92-0.96)game will pick a random number between these 2
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = (between 0.92-0.95)game will pick a random number between these 2

Between that and the already fatigue roster , the escorts should be totally unpredictable .

[TheDarkWraith]

The only idea i have LOL is the user can assign a set of numbers to the difficulty perameters and the game would pick a number between the two randomly .
eg:
################################################## ###############
###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = (Between 0.92-0.96)game will pick a random number between these 2
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = (between 0.92-0.95)game will pick a random number between these 2

Between that and the already fatigue roster , the escorts should be totally unpredictable .

Hmm....let me see what I can do :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

@ Sober - found a way to do what you were asking :up: It's going to be a big improvement to the randomness of the AI

Another thing interesting is I found a problem with the fatigue model for the warships (non-merchants). Their fatigue was working but it wasn't 'fatigueing' fast enough....merchants were fine. This will be fixed in next version.

[THE_MASK]

@ Sober - found a way to do what you were asking :up: It's going to be a big improvement to the randomness of the AI

Another thing interesting is I found a problem with the fatigue model for the warships (non-merchants). Their fatigue was working but it wasn't 'fatigueing' fast enough....merchants were fine. This will be fixed in next version.
Will this happen on restarting a game or on the fly , every "NewContact'' changes the number etc ?

[TheDarkWraith]

Will this happen on restarting a game or on the fly , every "NewContact'' changes the number etc ?

Yes, every new contact. Here's why:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 100;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 100;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 100;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT_MAX = 100;

Notice that there's a min and max for each one. Every new contact picks a random number between min and max for each. How's that for random AI :D (those numbers get divided by 100 in the code)

[THE_MASK]

SH5 just got a whole lot better , thank you sir .

[TheDarkWraith]

SH5 just got a whole lot better , thank you sir .

oh and each watch rotation (after the 4 tiers of fatigue) picks new random numbers also :D

[marleymen]

You are very talented man.

Why don´t you send your CV to Ubisoft?

[THE_MASK]

oh and each watch rotation (after the 4 tiers of fatigue) picks new random numbers also :DI was just going to suggest that , great minds think alike :O:

[TheDarkWraith]

You are very talented man.

Why don´t you send your CV to Ubisoft?

by CV I'm assuming you mean resume? If so, I'm too overqualified to work there :smug:

[Obelix]

by CV I'm assuming you mean resume? If so, I'm too overqualified to work there :smug:
Support:up:! And then there will be taught to work in a slipshod manner:know:! In ubisoft can not understand such a commitment, diligence and zeal :timeout::haha:.

[TheDarkWraith]

Here is a test version of v0.0.30 of IRAI. This version will fix some problems with the fatigue model in the warships that I noticed. It will also induce more randomess in the warships/escorts/merchants. After every 4 tiers of fatigue new random numbers will be selected for each sensor. The difficulty levels now have min and max numbers for them. A random number is chosen between those min and max numbers for each sensor for EACH contact (and also every watch rotation) so every contact (and each watch) will be unique in its sensor's effectiveness. Currently only the warships are done (The merchants visual is done though). I'll let you all test this out while I get some sleep. I'll finish the merchants tomorrow (the hydrophone, sonar, and radar parts).

Unzip straight to MODS folder. Enable after IRAI or MO.

http://www.filefront.com/17869093/IRAI-0-0-30-Test-Warships.7z/

:zzz:

[stoianm]

Hi TDW,

Here is my story:

I installed the test version of v0.0.30 of IRAI.

I attacked a convoy (the convoy has 2 DDs - one in front and one in the back).

The DDs wich was in the front of convoy came after me - he made 3 attacks on me - and after that he finished all the dept charges.

The DDs from the back of convoy remained with the convoy. After a 1 and a half day (game time) the DD from the front abandoned chasing me .

So, what do you think -are they reacted in the manner that you expected?

Best regards!:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

that tells me I didn't mess anything up with the changes I made :up: Being that the fatigue model was messed up before and due to new randomness of the sensor effectiveness based on unit/watchcrew you should've found it easier or harder to escape an escort at times.

[TheDarkWraith]

finished all the changes so that merchants get the same randomness.

Now I'm trying to figure out why the mines I made will give hull damage but the depth charges won't :hmmm: This just blows my mind. I give the depth charges the same settings as the mine and still no hull damage :damn:

[BowfinSS287]

woot....your back to IRAI

with regards to hull damage,i really like the way it is now
your boat can take a pounding,as systems become damaged
it becomes harder to control your boat (but you have time to repair)
depth charge attacks that cause hull damage in the passed
were far too short one or two close hits and the hull would be
down to 40% and its game over man....game over:nope:
with IRAI 0.29 i've had great depth charge attacks,lasting
hours....repairing damage...controlling flooding....great fun
sometimes the damage gets so bad, i have to surface and other
times i lose control due to flooding and sink to the bottom.
I think the damage model is perfect:yeah:

Maybe others would disagree,to that end could you offer 2 version
IRAI 0.30.....damage as it is now
IRAI 0.30a....with new hull damage

thanks for one of the most important mods for SH5

[TheDarkWraith]

woot....your back to IRAI

with regards to hull damage,i really like the way it is now
your boat can take a pounding,as systems become damaged
it becomes harder to control your boat (but you have time to repair)
depth charge attacks that cause hull damage in the passed
were far too short one or two close hits and the hull would be
down to 40% and its game over man....game over:nope:
with IRAI 0.29 i've had great depth charge attacks,lasting
hours....repairing damage...controlling flooding....great fun
sometimes the damage gets so bad, i have to surface and other
times i lose control due to flooding and sink to the bottom.
I think the damage model is perfect:yeah:

Maybe others would disagree,to that end could you offer 2 version
IRAI 0.30.....damage as it is now
IRAI 0.30a....with new hull damage

thanks for one of the most important mods for SH5

damage model isn't changing....I can't for the life of me get the sub to take hull damage. Yet with the mines I made the sub gets hull damage. I don't understand :shifty: Nothing is changing with regards to damage incurred from DCs.

You'll like the new randomness to the ships. You don't know what to expect at any time :D

[BowfinSS287]

thats great....looking forward to full version with merchants and warships

'kill the leader bug' gone'.....{Bowfin does backflip}:rock:

never knowing what to expect, just keeps getting better and better:salute:

thanks

[TheDarkWraith]

This is a historic day for SH5 ship AI......the kill the leader bug has finally been put to rest :smug: :rock: Even if the leader kills himself by running into another ship or something someone else takes over :rock: The randomness of the AI has been greatly improved also :D

v0.0.30 released. See post #1 for details :|\\

[stoianm]

Good job.:up:

So, in new version the number assigned for ships (related to how hard will be the game are randomly picked now) and we must not touch the settings that you made in init.aix! I think i understod.:hmmm:

I am going now to test mission 'Wolfpacks'':rock:.

Last days you made a lot of things - very productive - thanks!

Best regards!:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

Good job.:up:

So, in new version the number assigned for ships (related to how hard will be the game are randomly picked now) and we must not touch the settings that you made in init.aix! I think i understod.:hmmm:

I am going now to test mission 'Wolfpacks'':rock:.

Last days you made a lot of things - very productive - thanks!

Best regards!:salute:

You can still adjust, that's why they are there. The values have changed that's all and you have min and max for each sensor. The values are now 0-100 with 0 being no sensor. Default values are 85 for min and 100 for max for each sensor. Intermediates will probably want to use 85 min and 95 max and beginners will probably want to use 80 min and 90 max.

[TheDarkWraith]

What does everyone think of v0.0.30? Are you finding it a bit easier to evade/escape now? :06: Has anyone noticed convoys coming to a halt if you kill the leader? And how are the HK groups?

[THE_MASK]

Servers are down for half a day . Cannot play .

[Ragtag]

What does everyone think of v0.0.30? Are you finding it a bit easier to evade/escape now? :06: Has anyone noticed convoys coming to a halt if you kill the leader? And how are the HK groups?

Everything hooked to ubisoft are down. Maintainance. Says they will be back in about 2 hours time. Will surely test this out :)

[marleymen]

I uninstalled MO and all other sound and map mods 3 days ago because of I was playing almost perfect but the game went so slowly loading. Getting out seaport was a complete problem (no docks,etc) and CTD.

Staying for the new MO release to install and see if returns to normal.

(I made a defrag and saw if any MS Visual C++ was the problem but that isn´t the issue)

When will be ready for test new version TDW?

*sorry for the offtopic

[TheDarkWraith]

I uninstalled MO and all other sound and map mods 3 days ago because of I was playing almost perfect but the game went so slowly loading. Getting out seaport was a complete problem (no docks,etc) and CTD.

Staying for the new MO release to install and see if returns to normal.

(I made a defrag and saw if any MS Visual C++ was the problem but that isn´t the issue)

When will be ready for test new version TDW?

*sorry for the offtopic

what are your system specs? How much ram and what OS and 32 or 64 bit?
Did you start a brand new career with MO or try to use an existing one? If you tried to use an existing one you will CTD at some point in it.

[Poacher886]

@TDW,

Im still using your MO with Patch 1 / 2 and a couple of sound mods. Since ive installed these and been playing without problems, there have been further significant improvements to the game from your modding. i.e.

Adding an extended campaign to 1945
Adding Icebergs
Further Random AI improvements to IRAI

Would there be a chance you could make a patch 3 for MO that includes these improvements!...??

Also, something i would like added is the ability to keep hold of your current boat and be able to change to a newer one only when available and you so wish!, Sometimes i get quite attached to my lucky boat, and its my understanding that when you reach certain points in the campaign, you are releved of your boat and given another regardless!!

Thanks

[marleymen]

what are your system specs? How much ram and what OS and 32 or 64 bit?
Did you start a brand new career with MO or try to use an existing one? If you tried to use an existing one you will CTD at some point in it.

This are my specs:
Windows XP, 2Gb. RAM, ATi HD 5670 (latest drivers).
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+

I always start a new career to test new mods, save, exit and reload (as you said to don´t have a CTD). Also I reinstalled the game complete and downloaded mods again. Without MO having much less loading time and lags.

Don´t know why. A week or two I was playing perfectly.

[rascal101]

Please advise - should we load this over the megamod MO or uninstall that first or have you updated that as well

Rascal

[Schütze]

You can still adjust, that's why they are there. The values have changed that's all and you have min and max for each sensor. The values are now 0-100 with 0 being no sensor. Default values are 85 for min and 100 for max for each sensor. Intermediates will probably want to use 85 min and 95 max and beginners will probably want to use 80 min and 90 max.

That´s a great improvement. I read in Clancys book that the brits claimed their hydrophone effectivity were around 80% so you touched a string of realism there.

[rascal101]

Sorry to ask again, maybe I have missed something but I am wondering if this new version of IRAI should be installed over MO mod, and while we are about it I see that the Multiple UI mod has also been updated, should we also install this over the current version of MO and if so which of the newer mods should be installed first

While we are at it is it possible to get an ETA on any update to MO mod

Regards
Rascal

[BowfinSS287]

i got a chance to run a test with 0.30 today, very nice indeed
i took the carrier out with a spread of 3 torpedoes and 3 escorts
started their search,while the other 2 destroyers stayed close to the
sinking carrier. i switched to external camera to watch what they were
doing,it almost felt like someone was controlling the escorts, one went
all quiet ,while the other 2 ran a pattern around my area. DC were dropped
in my area and shook me up,this went on for hours,simply beautiful to watch
this is a very big step forward for the AI:salute:

one problem.....ships still run in reverse sometimes.....kill the reverse bug

[stoianm]

Sorry to ask again, maybe I have missed something but I am wondering if this new version of IRAI should be installed over MO mod, and while we are about it I see that the Multiple UI mod has also been updated, should we also install this over the current version of MO and if so which of the newer mods should be installed first

While we are at it is it possible to get an ETA on any update to MO mod

Regards
Rascal
I updated my curent verison of MO with new version v30 of IRAI and also with new version v6.3.7 of TDW new UIs - and i have not problems.

When the MO will be updated by TDW then i will not use the updates that i use now. I think it is up to you if you want to update or if you want to waith for new MO version - if you are doing the updating steps in corect oway no reason to have problems (i think:hmmm:)!

Salute!:salute:

[The General]

The most essential Mod ever written for the Silent Hunter series. Thank you TheDarkWraith :salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

one problem.....ships still run in reverse sometimes.....kill the reverse bug

I haven't been able to narrow down what causes this behavior. I don't know if it's something that I have caused or if it's a game bug. When they are going in reverse what are they doing? Are they circling, going in a straight line, spiraling, ?? :06:

[BowfinSS287]

I've seen it happen when one ship tries to avoid hitting another ship
it will go into reverse,then it will continue to sail around in reverse

[TheDarkWraith]

I've seen it happen when one ship tries to avoid hitting another ship
it will go into reverse,then it will continue to sail around in reverse

that's good info :up: I can possibly add something to check for this and stop it :hmmm:

[Zedi]

This happens on large convoys where is a lot of escorts and all of them are rushing to rape the sub. Now, when around 12 escorts are fighting for a spot to drop charges on the poor sub, weird stuff can happen, reverse sailing included.

Later on, in the 43-45 campaign part, when the escort includes even carriers and BB's.. things are getting very ugly. The capital ships are also start to hunt the sub and this will result in a massacre. These capital ships will completely ignore any other ships in their way, no matter if they are merchants or warships. I was hunted by a carrier for 2 days and she sunk about 4 warships in the meantime. Had to reload an older save to make this stop...

[TheDarkWraith]

This happens on large convoys where is a lot of escorts and all of them are rushing to rape the sub. Now, when around 12 escorts are fighting for a spot to drop charges on the poor sub, weird stuff can happen, reverse sailing included.

Later on, in the 43-45 campaign part, when the escort includes even carriers and BB's.. things are getting very ugly. The capital ships are also start to hunt the sub and this will result in a massacre. These capital ships will completely ignore any other ships in their way, no matter if they are merchants or warships. I was hunted by a carrier for 2 days and she sunk about 4 warships in the meantime. Had to reload an older save to make this stop...

This is a very tricky thing to fix. If the leader of the group or leader of the HK group is a battleship or carrier then it has to be able to stay near the contact and to keep moving. If either one of them isn't satisfied the behavior of the escorts will suffer (they could come to all stop and just sit there). I'm experimenting currently with a bunch of different ideas as to how to fix/remedy this problem but so far have come up empty handed. Persistence though will eventually overcome the problem (like I've been able to do with so many other problems with the AI).

[Bilge_Rat]

This is a very tricky thing to fix. If the leader of the group or leader of the HK group is a battleship or carrier then it has to be able to stay near the contact and to keep moving. If either one of them isn't satisfied the behavior of the escorts will suffer (they could come to all stop and just sit there). I'm experimenting currently with a bunch of different ideas as to how to fix/remedy this problem but so far have come up empty handed. Persistence though will eventually overcome the problem (like I've been able to do with so many other problems with the AI).

I dont know how this aspect of the game works, but why would a BB or CV have to be leader of a HK group?

Normally the dedicated HK group that would actually attack the sub should never be more than 4-6 escorts.

Any heavy warship, and the remaining escorts should act as a "convoy" and move out of the area, leaving just a small group behind to deal with the player's boat.

Can you have warships in a TF have different roles? A small group of escorts with HK role and the rest as convoy escorts?

[TheDarkWraith]

I dont know how this aspect of the game works, but why would a BB or CV have to be leader of a HK group?

Normally the dedicated HK group that would actually attack the sub should never be more than 4-6 escorts.

Any heavy warship, and the remaining escorts should act as a "convoy" and move out of the area, leaving just a small group behind to deal with the player's boat.

Can you have warships in a TF have different roles? A small group of escorts with HK role and the rest as convoy escorts?

The game more often times than not makes a BB or Carrier the leader of the groups (campaign problem that needs to be fixed!). Sometimes these HK groups are >6 units strong (campaign problem that needs to be fixed also!)

I tried making the leader (of an HK group) just steam on following waypoints and have the rest of the 'convoy' follow him leaving behind a team to combat the sub but it didn't work. The units left behind just sat there motionless in the water. Once I brought the leader back to the area they came alive again.

[Zedi]

I also dont understand why a capital ship must be involved in a sub hunt. Is not their role, they should never engage a sub except if it is surfaced. A capital ship should just speed up and stay far away from any sub.

Actually this happened once when I encountered a HUGE convoy that was leaded by a QM. Shot a salvo, but soon as she got alerted by the incoming torpedoes, hit the engines at max speed. Just because I had acoustic homing torpedoes, one of them managed to catch the BB and hit her stern. But the ship just kept running and left all the convoy behind while the rest of the escort rushed to hunt me down. Now this was really nice, but seems like this time the BB was not in charge, somebody else was in command.

So I wonder if you can make a commander capital ship to pass the command role to any other ship on attack and let her do his job.. flee the area.

[Bilge_Rat]

The game more often times than not makes a BB or Carrier the leader of the groups (campaign problem that needs to be fixed!). Sometimes these HK groups are >6 units strong (campaign problem that needs to be fixed also!)

I tried making the leader (of an HK group) just steam on following waypoints and have the rest of the 'convoy' follow him leaving behind a team to combat the sub but it didn't work. The units left behind just sat there motionless in the water. Once I brought the leader back to the area they came alive again.

I was afraid it might a problem like that. Obviously outside the scope of your mod and nothing that we can do until someone has the time and energy to tackle the campaign.

[TheDarkWraith]

I also dont understand why a capital ship must be involved in a sub hunt. Is not their role, they should never engage a sub except if it is surfaced. A capital ship should just speed up and stay far away from any sub.

Actually this happened once when I encountered a HUGE convoy that was leaded by a QM. Shot a salvo, but soon as she got alerted by the incoming torpedoes, hit the engines at max speed. Just because I had acoustic homing torpedoes, one of them managed to catch the BB and hit her stern. But the ship just kept running and left all the convoy behind while the rest of the escort rushed to hunt me down. Now this was really nice, but seems like this time the BB was not in charge, somebody else was in command.

So I wonder if you can make a commander capital ship to pass the command role to any other ship on attack and let her do his job.. flee the area.

If I could pass the command to another ship it would solve SO many problems with the AI and it would make the AI a lot easier to control. But, alas, the devs didn't include any function to do that. Whoever is the leader is the leader until it's destroyed. Then it's a crapshoot of who takes over the leader role (haven't figured out how the game chooses the new leader in that scenario).

The reason the game is making a capitol ship the leader now is because the campaign files are setup that way :nope: One needs to edit the campaign files and fix this problem. If the campaign files get edited correctly so that capitol ships aren't leaders then they will behave correctly.

[Zedi]

This is not a rule. In my example, the BB had flee the danger area while the rest of the warships were all over me. So the BB was not the leader.

[TheDarkWraith]

This is not a rule. In my example, the BB had flee the danger area while the rest of the warships were all over me. So the BB was not the leader.

Correct it's not a rule. But majority of the time capitol ships are put in the leader positions. When they are not in the leader position they behave like they should (flee, follow the leader, etc.).

[NeonsStyle]

I was wondering if something could be done to avert this
sort of situaton, which happened to me 2 days ago.

I was in my bunk downstairs. The boat was surfaced and steaming
on it's waypoint route. Then the whole sub shook, loud crashing
noises... wtf I think... I go up on deck to find the sub had crashed
into a frieghter. No warning... report of Smoke spotted... or ship
spotted.. and no attempt of the crew to avert the collision. :down:

Is there some way for the crew to behave like a normal crew, and
turn the ship in these cases? Wouldn't have been an issue if I'd been
on the bridge, but hey... even a capt has to rest lol... Oh, and of course
the frieghter was sunk for it's aberant behaviour. :salute:

[Vanilla]

There are quite many convoys in the campaign files with BBs and CAs assigned to escorts, those are obviously assigned to convoys to protect them from enemy ships and air attacks. Capital ships can be easily moved from escorts to convoy itself if that helps the issue with BBs hunting submarines but wouldn't it impend their ability to fend off non-submarine attacks? Will they act if Sharnhorst appears on the horizont? This is not forgetting the problem of them sailing in the middle of merchant formation.

Regarding HK groups - CVs are there to launch planes at submarines. If we remove them this will solve issue with CVs chasing subs but then we will not see escort carriers specifically searching for subs.

[Bilge_Rat]

I was wondering if something could be done to avert this
sort of situaton, which happened to me 2 days ago.

I was in my bunk downstairs. The boat was surfaced and steaming
on it's waypoint route. Then the whole sub shook, loud crashing
noises... wtf I think... I go up on deck to find the sub had crashed
into a frieghter. No warning... report of Smoke spotted... or ship
spotted.. and no attempt of the crew to avert the collision. :down:

Is there some way for the crew to behave like a normal crew, and
turn the ship in these cases? Wouldn't have been an issue if I'd been
on the bridge, but hey... even a capt has to rest lol... Oh, and of course
the frieghter was sunk for it's aberant behaviour. :salute:

That is an issue with TC settings which has been around for a long time. You have to turn travel mode off and change the TC settings (in Main cfg I believe), so TC will drop to 1x when a friendly/enemy ship is spotted.

[THE_MASK]

There are quite many convoys in the campaign files with BBs and CAs assigned to escorts, those are obviously assigned to convoys to protect them from enemy ships and air attacks. Capital ships can be easily moved from escorts to convoy itself if that helps the issue with BBs hunting submarines but wouldn't it impend their ability to fend off non-submarine attacks? Will they act if Sharnhorst appears on the horizont? This is not forgetting the problem of them sailing in the middle of merchant formation.

Regarding HK groups - CVs are there to launch planes at submarines. If we remove them this will solve issue with CVs chasing subs but then we will not see escort carriers specifically searching for subs.

TC1OnAnyMessageBoxText = True
+ use my TC settings , check my sig for them .

[Bilge_Rat]

after 11 days of my "Happy days" patrol, I had bagged 2 single merchants when I happened to run into the HMS Ark Royal with about 5-6 DDs as escorts.

Of course, I could not resist tracking it, got 3 out of 4 torpedoes into her (100% realism, manual TDC):

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6324/sh5img20110213132338.jpg


http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4513/sh5img20110213135525.jpg


unfortunately, I was immediately pounced on by the escorts. The first attack knocked out the electric motors and the boat slowly sank below crush depth...

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5526/sh5img20110213135836.jpg


this was with v.30. Time to start a new career..:salute:

[TheDarkWraith]

looks like v0.0.30 is working good then? Taking out a capitol ship that is the leader amounts to serious consequences it appears :DL

[Bilge_Rat]

looks like v0.0.30 is working good then? Taking out a capitol ship that is the leader amounts to serious consequences it appears :DL

Yes, but I am already working on tactics to defeat you......err, I mean your mod :ping:

[TheDarkWraith]

Yes, but I am already working on tactics to defeat you......err, I mean your mod :ping:

That's excellent! That means you're being challenged which means the game is doing what it is supposed to do :up:

[mobucks]

I am eagre to find myself in a situation where I can run the automated evasion scripts. They seem pretty sneaky. Especially if you have decoys.

[Zedi]

This was the last time I attacked from inside a convoy. Never again!

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Zhedi/SH5Img2011-02-13_000500.jpg?t=1297584587

[stoianm]

This was the last time I attacked from inside a convoy. Never again!



:haha: - with the v30 i try to be as far as posible - 1 time i sunked a capital ship from 5000 km - i had a lot of time to escape before my torps hit the target but the DDs found me:DL - try to escape from 5-6 DDs:timeout: - it is almoust imposible for me to play with dificulty level 1

[Jaeger]

Couldnt we have a mod which changes the ai behavior depending on time in war? f.ex. in 39/40 we have 0,80 sensor effectiveness and in 43 we have reached 0,95 etc.

Greetzz, Jaeger

[stoianm]

Couldnt we have a mod which changes the ai behavior depending on time in war? f.ex. in 39/40 we have 0,80 sensor effectiveness and in 43 we have reached 0,95 etc.

Greetzz, Jaeger
:D - it is simple that - as tdw gived us the chance to modify init.aix then when you play in 39/40 put your sensor from init.aix at max 0.80 and when you will reach 43 desable the mod and modify init.aix at max 0.95 - enable the mod etc:up:

[charognard]

I have notify something strange during MP mission...

I have set 37ship ( escort incude ) convoy with some WP. All are set on VETERAN - AGRESSIV. traveling at 7kn.

After the first shoot, the colomn are completely breack... Some ship stop, other sema going in random cap... I can t obtain a classic zigzag and speed change convoy. Is IRAI fault ? Or have i do something wrong creating the mission ?

[TheDarkWraith]

I have notify something strange during MP mission...

I have set 37ship ( escort incude ) convoy with some WP. All are set on VETERAN - AGRESSIV. traveling at 7kn.

After the first shoot, the colomn are completely breack... Some ship stop, other sema going in random cap... I can t obtain a classic zigzag and speed change convoy. Is IRAI fault ? Or have i do something wrong creating the mission ?

after first shoot....what did you shoot at? The escort? If so, is the escort the leader of this convoy? If so, what's probably happening is you killed the leader and now each ship is allowed to do it's own thing.......or the convoy AI is reacting to seeing a torpedo. When an AI ship unit sees a torpedo it's no longer forced to stay with the convoy. It is free to do whatever it wants to evade the torpedo. Hence all the randomness from all the ships.

[charognard]

Ok, well if i goodly understand, i must set a merchant as group leader, and set escoter in an another group ?

In SH3, when a convoy is attacked, ship just follow their way, but zizag. Sometime do little cap change, but kept the same global direction.
It s impossible in SH5 to have this reaction ?

Do crew level impact on the ship react and how ? It s really a big problem in MP mission, We have try to play a simple convoy attack and after the first shoot, all the convoy totaly forget WP and half turn ! Totaly irealistic, and sub player can t catch them...

[THE_MASK]

Is the AI sub hydrophone no CTD fix included in this mod ?

[Zedi]

Btw, why the convoy dont zig zag anymore in IRAI? Never understood the reason. I find it much more harder to hit a zig-zagin ship than one which just turn and change her course slowly...

[Gandalfi2005]

... Totaly irealistic, and sub player can t catch them...

When Sub Player cant catch up. AI is doing well, i guess :rock:

[charognard]

When Sub Player cant catch up. AI is doing well, i guess :rock:

LOL yes it s true, but it a simulator and convoy have specific evasive maneuver, and it consist to keep the same speed, and zigzag and change cap all 20 minuts. Well for difficulty, i m allrigth with the SH game to make convoy speed up or down, but having convoy who stay on their way and zigzag with the Xmintus cap changing will be very cool...

[Sbygneus]

:haha: - with the v30 i try to be as far as posible - 1 time i sunked a capital ship from 5000 km - i had a lot of time to escape before my torps hit the target but the DDs found me:DL - try to escape from 5-6 DDs:timeout: - it is almoust imposible for me to play with dificulty level 1

the same here, I find it imposible to slip away from 2 or more escorts once they found you with ASDIC which is almost always. I changed the DE difficulty to 7 and it was still impossible to escape and I read somewhere on forum that DE skill level about 8 is ok. No. To escape their asdic I should be able to move with decent speed, but any other speed than the slowest (which is not enough) leaves you inside the circle of searching DE.
I am giving up and back to the stock. It really kills gameplay trying to sneak out for hours.

[stoianm]

the same here, I find it imposible to slip away from 2 or more escorts once they found you with ASDIC which is almost always. I changed the DE difficulty to 7 and it was still impossible to escape and I read somewhere on forum that DE skill level about 8 is ok. No. To escape their asdic I should be able to move with decent speed, but any other speed than the slowest (which is not enough) leaves you inside the circle of searching DE.
I am giving up and back to the stock. It really kills gameplay trying to sneak out for hours.
it is working - i play 1 again now - when i hunt a capital ship i fire a torp from 5-6 km and i run before the torpedo hit the target - it is working


at 7 it is very easy to escape dd - you must to play mouse - cat game as is supouse to

i can exacpe 2 dds at 1 level now - i use wasserbomben and i use a tactic that i saw in a movie - work all the time

[Sbygneus]

it is working - i play 1 again now - when i hunt a capital ship i fire a torp from 5-6 km and i run before the torpedo hit the target - it is working


at 7 it is very easy to escape dd - you must to play mouse - cat game as is supouse to

i can exacpe 2 dds at 1 level now - i use wasserbomben and i use a tactic that i saw in a movie - work all the time

very interesting Stoianm, what is this wasserbomben (a mod?) and what is your tactic exactly? I really would like to play on hard but maybe I am using wrong tactic. Can you write something more about yours?

[stoianm]

very interesting Stoianm, what is this wasserbomben (a mod?) and what is your tactic exactly? I really would like to play on hard but maybe I am using wrong tactic. Can you write something more about yours?
yes of cource - it is nothing to special so i will make an shorth resume

wasserbomben it is a sound made for rongel and reworked by stormifly

this sound is playing when a depth charge touch the water surface (and means bomb in the water)

So i fire my torpedos - i order crush dive and when i am at 80 mettters i order level the boat and i change heading (the direction depend what i intend to do next - for ex i want to leave the area)

after the torpedo hit the target i order silent running and i change speed for 0.8 knots

if a dd spot me for example and he start to attack me:

i hear the sound wasserbomben played (i know that they are in top of me in through dept charges in water)

i order ahead flank and i order another dept (i go at 100 meters)
i order heading 15 degree to port or staboard (depends of some conditions)
i count 45 seconds and i order sillent running - set new speed 0.8 knots
i order new heading 15 degree in the oposite direction that i ordered first time
if they spot me again i repet the steps (until i go near 200 meters than i change until i go at 80 meters and so on)
i play this mouse and cat game until they finish depth charges and they live me allone:DL

if you want to use wasserbomben sound you must use the stormyfly soun mod collection - it is compatible with MO and tdw UIs (in fact they have the same sh file - this is for compatibility)

down from here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164552

[Vympel]

Hey , where in the options file can i change at which distance AI spots my periscope ? On clear days they spot it 8000 meters away pretty crazy.

[stoianm]

Hey , where in the options file can i change at which distance AI spots my periscope ? On clear days they spot it 8000 meters away pretty crazy.
this line:

RangeShipSendingSubSightedMessage = 8000

[Vympel]

this line:

RangeShipSendingSubSightedMessage = 8000

Is that in init.aix options file? I cant find it.

[stoianm]

Is that in init.aix options file? I cant find it.
no... it is in option.py if you are using tdw UIs

[Trevally.]

Hey , where in the options file can i change at which distance AI spots my periscope ? On clear days they spot it 8000 meters away pretty crazy.

Remember that when you get a radio update saying scope spotted etc, does not mean you have been spotted by the AI.
This was added for effect only.

[jean74]

Hi TheDarkWraith,

It seems that uboot_sensor.sim have conflict with Multiples UIs 6.4.0 test v4.

If I set the two mods I have CTD.

best regards,


Jean

[charognard]

I m really disapointed about game IA...

- MP elite mission : 3 DD on me, i m on IP, they re aren t able to hit and destroy me...
- 8000m convoy, totaly disbanded and totaly forget WP, speed setting ect...

too bad :/

[Sbygneus]

yes of cource - it is nothing to special so i will make an shorth resume

wasserbomben it is a sound made for rongel and reworked by stormifly

this sound is playing when a depth charge touch the water surface (and means bomb in the water)

So i fire my torpedos - i order crush dive and when i am at 80 mettters i order level the boat and i change heading (the direction depend what i intend to do next - for ex i want to leave the area)

after the torpedo hit the target i order silent running and i change speed for 0.8 knots

if a dd spot me for example and he start to attack me:

i hear the sound wasserbomben played (i know that they are in top of me in through dept charges in water)

i order ahead flank and i order another dept (i go at 100 meters)
i order heading 15 degree to port or staboard (depends of some conditions)
i count 45 seconds and i order sillent running - set new speed 0.8 knots
i order new heading 15 degree in the oposite direction that i ordered first time
if they spot me again i repet the steps (until i go near 200 meters than i change until i go at 80 meters and so on)
i play this mouse and cat game until they finish depth charges and they live me allone:DL

if you want to use wasserbomben sound you must use the stormyfly soun mod collection - it is compatible with MO and tdw UIs (in fact they have the same sh file - this is for compatibility)

down from here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164552

Thanks, I think I got it. My final question is how long in real time (approximately) does it take you to escape, say, 3 escorts? How long do they depth charge you? I was playing about 1,5 hours and they were still punching me!

[stoianm]

Thanks, I think I got it. My final question is how long in real time (approximately) does it take you to escape, say, 3 escorts? How long do they depth charge you? I was playing about 1,5 hours and they were still punching me!
:Dmanny hours - i do not know exactly but manny hours - 3 DDs is almoust imposible to escape

[Vympel]

Hi TheDarkWraith,

It seems that uboot_sensor.sim have conflict with Multiples UIs 6.4.0 test v4.

If I set the two mods I have CTD.

best regards,


Jean

Really , same here but I have yet to ctd i am plying historical missions though not campaign yet.

[Trevally.]

Thanks, I think I got it. My final question is how long in real time (approximately) does it take you to escape, say, 3 escorts? How long do they depth charge you? I was playing about 1,5 hours and they were still punching me!

With a convoy, some escorts will guard convoy unless you get to close. If you are close they will attack. If that is the case they will attack until convoy move to a range (?) away. Or they will stop if they cant see you for a random time.

Other escorts will attack you if you are outside convoy range. They will do so until convoy is x km away or the have lost you for x amount of time.

This is all random and changes each time. Also there are fatigue errors built in. This will reduce escorts sensors after time by a random amount.

If you are being attacked by a HK group - you are dead:dead:

[stoianm]

If you are being attacked by a HK group - you are dead:dead:

I totally agree with that:)

[TheDarkWraith]

If you are being attacked by a HK group - you are dead:dead:

there's a chance you'll live but you have to be good with your evasion tactics :yep: The HK groups do what they're supposed to do now in this game - hunt and kill subs :up:

[stoianm]

there's a chance you'll live but you have to be good with your evasion tactics :yep: The HK groups do what they're supposed to do now in this game - hunt and kill subs :up:
i did all my best but i can not escape from a HK
for example if i hunt an capital ship and the DDs detect me i am dead - i must to fire torpedo from as far as posible and to run before the torpedo hit the target
the chance that you are speaking to escape from a HK related to good tactics:hmmm: - do you have some sugestions or a link to read more?

thanks

[TheDarkWraith]

i did all my best but i can not escape from a HK
for example if i hunt an capital ship and the DDs detect me i am dead - i must to fire torpedo from as far as posible and to run before the torpedo hit the target
the chance that you are speaking to escape from a HK related to good tactics:hmmm: - do you have some sugestions or a link to read more?

thanks

sorry I don't. I've managed to escape a couple of times at default difficulty settings but I used a lot of decoys to help me.

The problem with why it's so hard to escape HK groups is because of the director. The director is an escort that sits motionless on the surface about 1000-2000m from you. He just sits there and listens for you. Since he's not moving there's hardly anything that interferes with his listening ability except for surrounding noise. Since he's listening for you he knows your position and lets everyone else know your exact position.

[stoianm]

sorry I don't. I've managed to escape a couple of times at default difficulty settings but I used a lot of decoys to help me.

The problem with why it's so hard to escape HK groups is because of the director. The director is an escort that sits motionless on the surface about 1000-2000m from you. He just sits there and listens for you. Since he's not moving there's hardly anything that interferes with his listening ability except for surrounding noise. Since he's listening for you he knows your position and lets everyone else know your exact position.
:D - thanks - you just gived me an ideea - i will try to observe wich one it is not moving and maybe i can kill that one
i will try this out

[7thSeal]

:D - thanks - you just gived me an ideea - i will try to observe wich one it is not moving and maybe i can kill that one
i will try this out

That's my strategy if I can take a peek long enough to fire off a torp. :DL

[THE_MASK]

Is the AI sub hydrophone no CTD fix included in this mod ?

[TheDarkWraith]

Is the AI sub hydrophone no CTD fix included in this mod ?

no. It's in MO though.

[THE_MASK]

I really think it should be in this one , what do you think ?

[HanSolo78]

Hi TDW!

I´ve got one question relating the targeting acurracy... a few days ago I tried a wolfpack mission from your MO mod I realized that the destroyers could make 80% hit from about 6-7000 meters! Could the be changed like to SH3 where they only could hit about 3000 meters?

[dcb]

Well, maybe I've posted this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1612910&postcount=448
in the wrong thread. Sorry for it.

I'll ask the same questions here, which seems to be the appropriated thread for it. No spam intended, just trying to get an answer to a question, if anyone knows it.

Q: Do friendly naval (not air) units respond to the player's contact reports?

Because in a test mission I created, with my sub near an enemy freighter and an AI uboat some 10 km away, when I radioed the contact report, the other uboat did not react at all.

[Zedi]

The AI sub is pretty dumb, but most of the time they respond if they are close to you. Happened to me twice, booth time made my reports because I was out of ammo and so I was very frustrated. First time a wolfpack jumped in and sunk my target, second time a destroyer.

Also, make sure ur AI sub is not in docked state and speed not set to 0. Also she need to have a waypoint and maybe most important ... make it an elite unit.

[dcb]

Thanks for the hint. Indeed, the secret is that the AI sub must be moving between 2 waypoints. Then it attacks at full speed and submerges near the target. If it's stopped, even if not docked, it won't start moving towards the target. It will just sit there, doing nothing.


The AI sub is pretty dumb, but most of the time they respond if they are close to you. Happened to me twice, booth time made my reports because I was out of ammo and so I was very frustrated. First time a wolfpack jumped in and sunk my target, second time a destroyer.

Also, make sure ur AI sub is not in docked state and speed not set to 0. Also she need to have a waypoint and maybe most important ... make it an elite unit.

[Jaguar]

Having troubles with IRAI. When near a port (less than 100km inbound/outbound) I´ve got lots of CTDs, so many I have to disable IRAI and re-enable only at a distance from said port. Sometimes it happens near a large convoy (big group of ships) also. :nope:

Using few mods, the only one which conflicts with IRAI is Historic Specifications 1.4, and disabling it doesn´t help. Does somebody have any clue what´s happening?

[TheDarkWraith]

Having troubles with IRAI. When near a port (less than 100km inbound/outbound) I´ve got lots of CTDs, so many I have to disable IRAI and re-enable only at a distance from said port. Sometimes it happens near a large convoy (big group of ships) also. :nope:

Using few mods, the only one which conflicts with IRAI is Historic Specifications 1.4, and disabling it doesn´t help. Does somebody have any clue what´s happening?

I find it very hard to believe that IRAI is the cause of your CTDs. One reason is because of the time that this mod has been in use and no CTDs reported of it. Two, the mod only changes the behavior/tactics of the AI and nothing else. So to say I'm quite puzzled would be an understatement :hmmm:

[Trevally.]

I had something similar,

Lots of mods running and when I met 2 convoys at same time, CTD.
I reloaded a save just prior with no mods and no CTD.

I then went through my mod list removing then to discover
that the system heavy mods were causing it in my game.

I could disable SSteel and Enviro to get past that point
in the map where 2 convoys met. This would also happen to me
when close to a busy port.

For a while I put up with this - then bought a new PC:D

If you are using a 32bit system, try the fix posted by TDW for
the ram switch.

[Jaguar]

I find it very hard to believe that IRAI is the cause of your CTDs. One reason is because of the time that this mod has been in use and no CTDs reported of it. Two, the mod only changes the behavior/tactics of the AI and nothing else. So to say I'm quite puzzled would be an understatement :hmmm:

Thx TDW, I´ll do some more tests tonight and report. It looks like some memmory or video card issue, something like my rig being unable to handle to many ships together. Just guessing though:hmmm:. I know as much in programing as a healthy oyster.

[Jaguar]

I had something similar,

For a while I put up with this - then bought a new PC:D

I´m afraid I have to do the same :03:. The video card specially is now quite old.

If you are using a 32bit system, try the fix posted by TDW for
the ram switch.

Would you please post a link?

[Trevally.]

Im searching but cant find it:hmmm:

I bet Stoianm knows where it is:D

[stoianm]

Im searching but cant find it:hmmm:

I bet Stoianm knows where it is:D
:D
Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1580737#post1580737)
Here is something to try for those of you having CTDs or using 32 bit OS:

Try this only if you have at least 2 GByte of RAM and at your own risk and using Vista/Win7 32 bit version.
First download the explorer from http://www.ntcore.com/exsuite.php
Next make a backup copy of SH5.exe. Then start "CFF Explorer" and open the orginal SH5.exe file.
Now go to NT Header/File Header and click File Header. There you will find a button labeld "click here". Click it and select the mark at "App can handle> 2gb adressest "
Save the modified EXE, overwrite the orginal one (You do have your backup of it in a safe location right?).
If you run Windows Vista 64 or Windows XP 64 or Win7 64 you're ready and didnt need to read on. The rest is only for Windows Vista 32/Win7 32 or maybe Windows XP.
Now make Windows Vista/Win7 (32-Bit) ready to support more than 2 GByte.
Open a command prompt with Administration rights. You find it under "Programs->Accessories->Command prompt" click right and select "run as administrator".
Enter "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" (without quotes) in the command window and press enter.
After that restart windows

To reset back to 2GB limit:
to reset the Increased User Adressspace just start the commandline prompt with Admin right again and enter "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 2048"

See if the above helps at all :yep:

Another idea is to install previous version of DirectX ( < v11). I have Win7 64bit but ALWAYS install previous DirectX versions for compatibility reasons. Go to Microsoft's website and search for DirectX. Run the DirectX web installer from their website. You can have DirectX9 AND DirectX11 installed on Win7.

EDIT:

just checked the sh5.exe file and it's large address aware so enabling the 3GB switch in 32bit OSs should help:

Microsoft (R) COFF/PE Dumper Version 9.00.30729.01
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Dump of file sh5.exe
PE signature found
File Type: EXECUTABLE IMAGE
FILE HEADER VALUES
14C machine (x86)
5 number of sections
4BCE9A96 time date stamp Wed Apr 21 01:26:30 2010
0 file pointer to symbol table
0 number of symbols
E0 size of optional header
122 characteristics
Executable
Application can handle large (>2GB) addresses
32 bit word machine

[Jaguar]

Thx stoianm and Trevally. :up:

[Obelix]

Hi TheDarkWraith!
Once through the free camera there was a strange situation with IRAI: when a plane plunged into the boat immediately, but the plane continued to see the boat and fired its machine guns, although the boat has long been located at a depth of 90 m.

[stoianm]

Hi TheDarkWraith!
Once through the free camera there was a strange situation with IRAI: when a plane plunged into the boat immediately, but the plane continued to see the boat and fired its machine guns, although the boat has long been located at a depth of 90 m.
i had the same plane behavior... i was atacked by planes when i was submerged at 99 meters

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi TheDarkWraith!
Once through the free camera there was a strange situation with IRAI: when a plane plunged into the boat immediately, but the plane continued to see the boat and fired its machine guns, although the boat has long been located at a depth of 90 m.

Yes this is a problem with the plane AI. There is only one function available for whether the plane has a contact or not. This function says yes or no as to whether it does. I cannot determine the depth of the contact (like you can with ships) and thus if the plane has a contact it will attack it (if it has bombs or torpedoes available). Doesn't matter if the contact is at 3000m or -300m the plane will still try to attack it :nope: This can only be fixed by the devs via a patch.

[SashaKA001]

I shoot them myself:har::har::har:

[Dignan]

I'm running this with TDW's UI/TDC mod and the "U-boat Historical Specs" mod.

My order is this:

1 NewUIs_TDC_6_3_7_TDW
2 U-boat Historical Specifications
3 IRAI_0_0_30_TDW

I noticed that IRAI overwrites some files in the historical specs mod. Is this going to be a problem?

[oscar19681]

I had a strange problem with this mod (it was in MO) but i guess its the same AI mod. sometimes the escorts ignore me. One time i made a submerged attack and i struck a couple of targets. The escorts where in the back of the convoy and just kept sailing at slow speed with no interest in tracking me down even though it was good weather. The other situation was when i was attacking on the surface when fog. I could barely see the ship but attacked a few. I killed 5 ships and there was 1 escort . But the escort just kept sailing in the front of the convoy and also showed no interest in finding out what was happening behing him.

[TheDarkWraith]

I'm running this with TDW's UI/TDC mod and the "U-boat Historical Specs" mod.

My order is this:

1 NewUIs_TDC_6_3_7_TDW
2 U-boat Historical Specifications
3 IRAI_0_0_30_TDW

I noticed that IRAI overwrites some files in the historical specs mod. Is this going to be a problem?

not at all

I had a strange problem with this mod (it was in MO) but i guess its the same AI mod. sometimes the escorts ignore me. One time i made a submerged attack and i struck a couple of targets. The escorts where in the back of the convoy and just kept sailing at slow speed with no interest in tracking me down even though it was good weather. The other situation was when i was attacking on the surface when fog. I could barely see the ship but attacked a few. I killed 5 ships and there was 1 escort . But the escort just kept sailing in the front of the convoy and also showed no interest in finding out what was happening behing him.

IRAI assigns escorts duties randomly. It's quite possible that these escorts in the back were assigned to guard convoy or protect convoy and as such they have to stay with the convoy until you come within a certain range of it.

If an escort is leading a convoy and it's the only escort then yes it will just keep leading the convoy. Beware airplanes though as it will be radioing for help via air cover and from other warships in the area.

[oscar19681]

not at all



IRAI assigns escorts duties randomly. It's quite possible that these escorts in the back were assigned to guard convoy or protect convoy and as such they have to stay with the convoy until you come within a certain range of it.

If an escort is leading a convoy and it's the only escort then yes it will just keep leading the convoy. Beware airplanes though as it will be radioing for help via air cover and from other warships in the area.

I have an even worse situation witch is unacceptable for the AI destoyers. I attacked a convoy at evening with clear view. Attacked 4 ships. Still the escorts where doing nothing to help and didnt even have search lights on. They just kept sitting there while the merchents where looking for me with searchlights. As a test i desided to surface within the convoy and soon enough the merchants opent fire but the escorts just sat there with there lights of watching the fireworks at some 1000 meters. I,m talking a well defended convoy here , 1 one the front 2 at the sides.

[Zedi]

Talking about planes... I posted few screens about an encounter with a bomber where after he depleted his ammo he still kept flying around me. I managed to damage all her engines, but I also depleted my ammo. So I reported the contact and about half an hour later a german destroyer joined the show. But soon as the 2 AI made contact, the bomber left. For role playing this was great... the bomber crew got scared and they left the area, but in reality.. dunno what trigged the abandon_attack.script.

Anyway, the AI vs AI battles are a real joy, best one is around Malta where the Luftwaffe constantly raid Valleta and thats a hell of a show, so if any of you is doing mare nostrum, dont forget to pay a visit in the area.

[TheDarkWraith]

I have an even worse situation witch is unacceptable for the AI destoyers. I attacked a convoy at evening with clear view. Attacked 4 ships. Still the escorts where doing nothing to help and didnt even have search lights on. They just kept sitting there while the merchents where looking for me with searchlights. As a test i desided to surface within the convoy and soon enough the merchants opent fire but the escorts just sat there with there lights of watching the fireworks at some 1000 meters. I,m talking a well defended convoy here , 1 one the front 2 at the sides.

That sounds like stock AI behavior. Which version of IRAI are you using? As a test to see that IRAI is installed correctly when you have it enabled go to \data\scripts\AI and open up init.aix with notepad. If you see some settings that mention difficulty settings then it's installed correctly.

[Meldric]

I am now in the campaign "Paukenschlag" and I am cruising around in front of the east coast of the states... Yesterday I was kind of bored and thought it might be a challenge to attack one of the destroyers patrolling around.

Well, I did... and it was really stupid behaviour. There were actually three destroyers in visible range (day, clear sky), I could see the other destroyers very clear and close (maybe a few kilometers away). I attacked the closest one and destroyed it very easy... The others took no visible action. It was easy as eating a donut to sink them all one by one...

I have the latest version of IRAI installed...

[TheDarkWraith]

I am now in the campaign "Paukenschlag" and I am cruising around in front of the east coast of the states... Yesterday I was kind of bored and thought it might be a challenge to attack one of the destroyers patrolling around.

Well, I did... and it was really stupid behaviour. There were actually three destroyers in visible range (day, clear sky), I could see the other destroyers very clear and close (maybe a few kilometers away). I attacked the closest one and destroyed it very easy... The others took no visible action. It was easy as eating a donut to sink them all one by one...

I have the latest version of IRAI installed...

That just doesn't sound right. With the mod enabled check the following file \data\scripts\AI\init.aix and see if it contains anything dealing with difficulty settings. You'd find it at the beginning of the file if so. You can open that file with notepad. If it doesn't then IRAI isn't installed correctly.

[stoianm]

i did the same but the DDs were like not moving... so Meldric you are sure that the DDs were in patrol and they were not like ancored?

[TheDarkWraith]

i did the same but the DDs were like not moving... so Meldric you are sure that the DDs were in patrol and they were not like ancored?

yes good point stoianm! If the ships are anchored then they will always stay anchored and never engage. This is a game problem and not one that I created.
IRAI treats anchored ships as anchored ships. i.e. very little watch crew and support crew onboard and thus their detection ability is very limited on all sensors.

[Meldric]

Hey!

They were not ancored (I am not sure about the 3rd, however), because they were actually moving in (rough) circles (like patrolling around). But they did not try to help their sinking fellows... They had active detection gear (I could see the pac-man shapes). But they were no thread to me whatsoever (I was at periscope depth). I did not try to surface, however... (I assume that would've changed the situation)

[TheDarkWraith]

Hey!

They were surely not ancored, because they were actually moving in circles (like patrolling around). But the did not try to help their sinking fellows... They had active detection gear (I could see the pac-man shapes). But they were no thread to me whatsoever (I was at periscope depth). I did not try to surface, however... (I assume that would've changed the situation)

Were you located in any of their circles of detection for hydrophone or sonar (asdic)? If not then yes, they probably wouldn't have done anything. This is a game bug and not something I created. The game's AI is so-so at best. Unless the ship you sunk had detected you then the others will be blind to your presence unless you are in their circle of detection.

[Meldric]

Hi!

I of course avoided their detection and I was in none of the circles... But well... there was a burning ship with smoke like 100 meters high and I would've supposed the sinking ship to send a radio message or something... I was actually expecting the Destroyers to close in and search / attack me, but they did not. They did not even increase their speed or changed their routes.

When I attack a convoy (hit a merchant), some/all the support vessels will head towards me even if I was not detected by one of them directly... no? At least that also happened to me yesterday.

On another occasion I was detected (visually) by a destroyer and he started to circle around me and threw DCs... But he was not even coming close and I had all time I needed to sink him very easy...

If that is a game bug, then the AI is definitiv below "so-so", I'd say :)

Thanks for the replies!

[Trevally.]

@ TDW

Now that our hydrophone is working and the sonarman can track targets
with the patch (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181433) information you posted, can the AI hear and respond to an
active sonar, whether from depth under keel or range finding ping:06:

[TheDarkWraith]

@ TDW

Now that our hydrophone is working and the sonarman can track targets
with the patch (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181433) information you posted, can the AI hear and respond to an
active sonar, whether from depth under keel or range finding ping:06:

I really have no idea. All I can surmize is that since SH5 is built upon SH4 which is built upon SH3 and using active sonar or depth under keel in SH3 caused the AI to respond, I would say they would respond in SH5. A test mission would be the best indicator for this though. Place a destroyer say 1000-1500m away from the sub and use both and see what the destroyer does.

[Trevally.]

I really have no idea. All I can surmize is that since SH5 is built upon SH4 which is built upon SH3 and using active sonar or depth under keel in SH3 caused the AI to respond, I would say they would respond in SH5. A test mission would be the best indicator for this though. Place a destroyer say 1000-1500m away from the sub and use both and see what the destroyer does.

I have made and tested that suggestion.

Depth under keel = DD attack:up:
Range ping = DD attack:up: Edit : sorry i made an error here. DD do not hear a sonar range reading.
Only a ping.

Dead on both tests:dead:

[Magic1111]

I have made and tested that suggestion.

Depth under keel = DD attack:up:
Range ping = DD attack:up:

Dead on both tests:dead:

Good this to know....:up:

[stoianm]

I have made and tested that suggestion.

Depth under keel = DD attack:up:
Range ping = DD attack:up:

Dead on both tests:dead:
he he ... nice ... so they respond... they can hear you when you use ping... i supose that when the sonar guy calculate the range from an contact he just use the information from the cfg that TDW said... is not like he use ping for range?:hmmm: - what do you mean by range ping - i supoused that is not working in sh5 - or you just sendet an ping in an ship direction?

[jwilliams]

I have made and tested that suggestion.

Depth under keel = DD attack:up:
Range ping = DD attack:up:

Dead on both tests:dead:


:yeah:
I like this result.

Guess i wont be doing any Depth under keel pings while I'm being hunted anymore. :D

[Trevally.]

I used two black swans for the test. (elite setting)
Both swans were on me straight away after ping.

I was 50m deep and all silent.


Edit : sorry i made an error here. DD do not hear a sonar range reading. Only a ping.

[Chevelless]

I have to say this mod is great enough to keep me away from convoys!

Several times I have caught up convoys circled by 6 or more DDs, and most time as a result I was sunk by them. Once detected by any of the merchants or DDs, I was on a run, a death run, run to my final patrol.

They throw DCs at me round by round and even call planes fire torpedos at me. In most cases I am doom to be sink by them after I exhausted all my torpedos on a convoy.

Too hard to survive from DDs attack, and planes often annoy me like mosquitos.

I doubt if it is a bug or not, sometimes I think I have not been detected by DD or merchant, but after the torpedo impact, many vessels rush toward me, manage to roll over my submarine. I am sure my periscope keep underwater and shot electric torpedos without those damn trails, but it seems they get my position directly. Merchants rush toward an un-visible submarine directly at high speed...oh no~~~

[TheBeast]

I have to say this mod is great enough to keep me away from convoys!

Several times I have caught up convoys circled by 6 or more DDs, and most time as a result I was sunk by them. Once detected by any of the merchants or DDs, I was on a run, a death run, run to my final patrol.

They throw DCs at me round by round and even call planes fire torpedos at me. In most cases I am doom to be sink by them after I exhausted all my torpedos on a convoy.

Too hard to survive from DDs attack, and planes often annoy me like mosquitos.

I doubt if it is a bug or not, sometimes I think I have not been detected by DD or merchant, but after the torpedo impact, many vessels rush toward me, manage to roll over my submarine. I am sure my periscope keep underwater and shot electric torpedos without those damn trails, but it seems they get my position directly. Merchants rush toward an un-visible submarine directly at high speed...oh no~~~
DD's will run to obvious attack locations. You may be to close when attacking using obvious attack location.
Try attack at night from farther away using T-1 Medium or Slow speed to avoid DD's. As soon as you loose torpedo's, turn away and run.
Just before Torpedo impact, go Silent Running and dive deep. Then go All Stop before DD comes within 2000 meters.
This Tactic works for me.

[marleymen]

DD's will run to obvious attack locations. You may be to close when attacking using obvious attack location.
Try attack at night from farther away using T-1 Medium or Slow speed to avoid DD's. As soon as you loose torpedo's, turn away and run.
Just before Torpedo impact, go Silent Running and dive deep. Then go All Stop before DD comes within 2000 meters.
This Tactic works for me.

:arrgh!: Hit and ... "Run silent, Run Deep" :arrgh!:

[Dignan]

TDW, or anyone who can answer...how does this mod differ from the other AI mod on this forum? I think its called "ai feared hunters" or something like that. Does this mod include changes done in that mod?

[TheDarkWraith]

TDW, or anyone who can answer...how does this mod differ from the other AI mod on this forum? I think its called "real feared hunters" or something like that. Does this mod include changes done in that mod?

I totally rewrote all the AI routines for the subs, airplanes, and ships giving them realistic and random behavior. Planes will attack you is spotted with guns and bombs/torpedoes. AI subs now act like AI subs and don't turn tail and run. Wolfpacks engage and attack convoys and other ships. AI vs AI battles are truely a sight to see now! Ship's crews suffer from fatigue and watch rotations are put in place for them. No other AI mod even comes close to what IRAI will do for the AI. Sorry if that sounds like tooting my own horn but it's true :yep: Most of all IRAI is VERY hard and challenging. Very few people can use it at the default difficulty settings (you have options to change difficulty settings for warship and merchant AI).

[Dignan]

I totally rewrote all the AI routines for the subs, airplanes, and ships giving them realistic and random behavior. No other AI mod even comes close to what IRAI will do for the AI. Sorry if that sounds like tooting my own horn but it's true :yep:

Good enough for me then. Thanks.

I am using IRAI now, just wanted to understand the difference. :up:

[Dignan]

Hi TDW. I'm out on my first patrol of the first campaign level. I've intercepted an enemy convoy with a single escort (can't remember the class but it didn't sound elite) and am slowly picking off freighters from this group. It is nighttime. So far, the escort has not reacted in any way to my presence. Ships keep exploding from my torpedoes but the escort just keeps plugging along ahead of hte convoy. No attempt to find me.

I see from the description of IRAI you have assigned escorts one of the following (poor, novice, competent, veteran, or elite). Is it possible or likely that this escort has been assigned a "poor" or "novice" rating and that's why he isn't coming after me?

[THE_MASK]

Just be glad you got away with it this time :yep:

[THE_MASK]

Harbor asdic
http://indicatorloops.com/hda.htm

Would it be possible to attach asdic to a mine and alert nearby ships when a submarine passes by .

[Jaguar]

Harbor asdic
http://indicatorloops.com/hda.htm

Would it be possible to attach asdic to a mine and alert nearby ships when a submarine passes by .

Wouldn´t it be a little too unrealistic?:03:

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi TDW. I'm out on my first patrol of the first campaign level. I've intercepted an enemy convoy with a single escort (can't remember the class but it didn't sound elite) and am slowly picking off freighters from this group. It is nighttime. So far, the escort has not reacted in any way to my presence. Ships keep exploding from my torpedoes but the escort just keeps plugging along ahead of hte convoy. No attempt to find me.

I see from the description of IRAI you have assigned escorts one of the following (poor, novice, competent, veteran, or elite). Is it possible or likely that this escort has been assigned a "poor" or "novice" rating and that's why he isn't coming after me?

A single escort leadig a convoy will not disband and leave the convoy. It will continue to lead but will call in reenforcements via other ships and planes. For it not to be firing on you it must not see you (either you are submerged or you are out of it's visual range)

[Dignan]

A single escort leadig a convoy will not disband and leave the convoy. It will continue to lead but will call in reenforcements via other ships and planes. For it not to be firing on you it must not see you (either you are submerged or you are out of it's visual range)

I am submerged, it is night. I am probably about 3,500 meters away from convoy track. Dead stop. If there was a second or third escort would it try to come find me?

Reinforcements, huh? So I should probably make my presence in the area a thing of the past now...

[THE_MASK]

Wouldn´t it be a little too unrealistic?:03:
How is it unrealistic . It would be a seperate from other mines and only placed in harbors to mimic harbor asdic . Its enviromental so i cannot detect it . Its placed at water surface to detect subs below .

[DelphiUniverse]

Is the link at the first post the link to the latest version?

Can I install and overwrite this to NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith? JSGME ask me to overwrite a file in that mod, can I safely overwrite it, is it neccesary or is this AI already included in NewUI's mod?

[jwilliams]

Is the link at the first post the link to the latest version? YES

Can I install and overwrite this to NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith? JSGME ask me to overwrite a file in that mod, can I safely overwrite it, is it neccesary or is this AI already included in NewUI's mod?
YES let JSGME overwrite NewUI's with IRAI.


See yellow text.

Both mods are made by TheDarkWraith, he ensures that they are compatible. Just make sure that you enable them in the correct order.

the order for install is (this includes other mods from TDW) :-

1. New UI's
2. IRAI
3. FX
4. No Hydrophone on surface /Plane spotting fix from IRAI.

:salute:

[Obelix]

1. New UI's
2. IRAI
3. FX
4. No Hydrophone on surface /Plane spotting fix from IRAI.

:salute:
Is FX should not be the first?:06:

[stoianm]

Is FX should not be the first?:06:
this is the corect order:

Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_UHS_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_15_BARF_1_3_Full_Fix
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
AirTorpedoes
Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_TheDarkWr aith

regards

[Obelix]

this is the corect order:

Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
NewUIs_TDC_6_4_0_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_15_UHS_Fix
FX_Update_0_0_15_BARF_1_3_Full_Fix
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
AirTorpedoes
Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_TheDarkWr aith

regards
That is, it is not correct?:hmmm: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1486324&postcount=38

[stoianm]

That is, it is not correct?:hmmm: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1486324&postcount=38
it was before... now has changed

[Obelix]

it was before... now has changed
Thank you!:salute:

[ETsd4]

I am looking for a realistic game-setting not if i am beginner or a more expierenced person.

Would it be more realistic to play IRAI v0.0.30 with ...
- these sonar/hydrophone difficulty settings
1939: 0.80
1940: 0.825
1941: 0.90
1942: 0.95
1943: 0.975 - 1.0
1944: 1.0
1945: 1.0

or

- with sonar/hydrophone difficulty level
1939 - 1945 always on 1.0 ?



Any suggestions & thoughts?

[stoianm]

I am looking for a realistic game-setting not if i am beginner or a more expierenced person.

Would it be more realistic to play IRAI v0.0.30 with ...
- these sonar/hydrophone difficulty settings
1939: 0.80
1940: 0.825
1941: 0.90
1942: 0.95
1943: 0.975 - 1.0
1944: 1.0
1945: 1.0

or

- with sonar/hydrophone difficulty level
1939 - 1945 always on 1.0 ?



Any suggestions & thoughts?
1 is to dificult... if an dd detect you you are almoust dead... if 2 DDs detect you you are dead for sure

[THE_MASK]

Dont use decimal points .
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
You are forgeting that AI has randomness now .
I find that these setting are realistic , its the way the campaigns are set up with diffrent ability dumb medium or elite crew in diffrent campaigns that needs fixing .

[ETsd4]

Is it not the case that a detection from a DD is almost always your death sentence in the years 1943, 1944 or 1945?

Maybe i will change the values for the years 1943 - 1945 to
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 87;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 87;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 87;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 87;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 100;


LetsPlay with SH3 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6zP3VmaeCw ):
This guy too , Frontier359, prefer to avoid a detection form a DD at all costs. When you have been following that LP-series for longer you will recognize she is hysterical upset (exaggeration) to see a DD and she is doing everything to avoid a contact with DDs ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqlXNxjSG2c) . Here at Sep.1939 she attacked that DD at a very early stage. That was indeed a success´( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuNbOSHUa4 ).

[Dignan]

Just had an interesting experience while running IRAI.

I am transiting the English Channel to the West. Heavy fog, light precipitation. Low sea state. Late 1939

I'm on the surface when suddenly one of my lookouts calls out, "Escort Sighted" :o. I know this can't be good because we are in heavy fog. I turn around to sea a destroyer coming out of the mist at me full steam ahead, maybe 400 yards away at my stern. I order a crash dive, full right rudder. She passes over us as we descend to about 55 meters. There wasn't much more room below our keel.

The escort proceeded to make a few passes at us dropping DCs. I evaded most of them and didn't sustain any damage. I then went into my evasion strategy which involves running completely silent (no propulsion) until I have to move because of a depth charge run. Then I gun it, change course and coast. I then slowly slipped away under small propulsion bursts when the escort's back was to us. This went on for about 2 game hours. I eventually got far enough away and he lost me completely and gave up.

It is worth noting I've dumbed down the AI a bit as someone suggested here by editing that file. I think they were on 85min, 95max across the board. I found this encounter to be a great balance between feeling threatened to where I had to make some smart moves to get away and being completely screwed because the escort from hell would never lose me.

My only question is did this escort hear me from far away (I was surfaced running at standard), catch me on radar, or did he just happen catch up to me in teh fog and get surprised too? He didn't fire his guns at me so it almost felt like he didn't know I was there until he was right on top of me. Either way....good fun. :up:

[stoianm]

What you mean by: ,,I then went into my evasion strategy which involves running completely silent (no propulsion)?''

[Dignan]

What you mean by: ,,I then went into my evasion strategy which involves running completely silent (no propulsion)?''

Sorry, should have explained that better. What I mean is a usually go silent first (cut all engines). If the escort still has a lock on me I wait for him to pass overhead and drop charges, then I go flank for maybe 15 seconds, make a course change and try to sneak away under slow engine bursts when the escort is facing a way from me. If the game modeled it correctly, then all escorts have a "blind spot" in their hydrophone coverage immediately behind them due to their own engine noise. (unless they are stopped).

[stoianm]

Sorry, should have explained that better. What I mean is a usually go silent first (cut all engines). If the escort still has a lock on me I wait for him to pass overhead and drop charges, then I go flank for maybe 15 seconds, make a course change and try to sneak away under slow engine bursts when the escort is facing a way from me. If the game modeled it correctly, then all escorts have a "blind spot" in their hydrophone coverage immediately behind them due to their own engine noise. (unless they are stopped).
this i understood but i mean what is silent running - no propulsion?... what is the sped for that in knots?

[Dignan]

this i understood but i mean what is silent running - no propulsion?... what is the sped for that in knots?

All I meant was that I ordered "silent running" conditions via my XO and then cut all engines (0 knots).

[stoianm]

All I meant was that I ordered "silent running" conditions via my XO and then cut all engines.
ok.. i see.. so you cut your engines.. and how you escaped?... the DD left?.. i supouse you did not travel to far after you stop engines and you will have 0 knots (completly stop).. i order silent runing and i order speed 0.8 knots... but i never checked if the detection con from DD increase in this case... i will put my map contact on and i will check in the game

[Dignan]

ok.. i see.. so you cut your engines.. and how you escaped?... the DD left?.. i supouse you did not travel to far after you stop engines and you will have 0 knots (completly stop).. i order silent runing and i order speed 0.8 knots... but i never checked if the detection con from DD increase in this case... i will put my map contact on and i will check in the game

Basically what I do is use very low RPM knots like you describe. 1 or .5 knots. When my sonarman reports "escort moving away" I will increase my speed until I hear, "escort constant distance." They cannot hear you as well when you are directly behind them. By doing this I slowly move away a little bit at a time and when he comes back around to look for me I stop all engines and wait for him to go by. Now, if he gets you on active (pinging) sonar then he's going to find you no matter what and you have to start all over again.

To answer your question, yes...he eventually just left after not getting a position on me for so long.

My difficulty level was customized in IRAI. Like I said, I think it is min 85, max 95. Pretty good balance.

[Dignan]

My only question is did this escort hear me from far away (I was surfaced running at standard), catch me on radar, or did he just happen catch up to me in teh fog and get surprised too? He didn't fire his guns at me so it almost felt like he didn't know I was there until he was right on top of me. Either way....good fun. :up:

Stoianm, would you happen to know the answer to this question? Did the escort just randomly find me or is it likely I was detected on radar through the fog? (It was 1939)

[Zedi]

No radar in 39. But starting late 41 you may wanna stay at a long distance from a convoy when at surface.. fog or not.

[stoianm]

Stoianm, would you happen to know the answer to this question? Did the escort just randomly find me or is it likely I was detected on radar through the fog? (It was 1939)
i think he detect you because of the noise of your engine... the IRAI is the same in each game year

[d3vnu11]

This is strange. I use IRAI .30 default settings and one night I was surfaced no fog I get a visual on two destroyers heading right for me I drop to periscope depth and they pass by me no more then 400M to my right and left I was right in the middle of them. They sailed right on by :)
Kevin

[Dignan]

This is strange. I use IRAI .30 default settings and one night I was surfaced no fog I get a visual on two destroyers heading right for me I drop to periscope depth and they pass by me no more then 400M to my right and left I was right in the middle of them. They sailed right on by :)
Kevin

Did the destroyers actually see you on the surface? Were they turning towards you when you submerged or did you just happen to be in their path? If you were totally silent when they passed over then it's likely they never detected you.

[TheDarkWraith]

At night time and not in alert state the enemy's visual range is not that great. What was your aspect to them? If you provided a very small aspect then you further decrease their visual range. So it is quite possible that they 'sailed' right over you at periscope depth.

[Jaguar]

DC water disturbances are now present since TDW released his very wellcomed and must have mod. One question about tactics using IRAI still persists though, are DDs ASDIC capabilities limited to speed? In real life any speed above 14 knots would turn the ship virtually deaf.

[d3vnu11]

At night time and not in alert state the enemy's visual range is not that great. What was your aspect to them? If you provided a very small aspect then you further decrease their visual range. So it is quite possible that they 'sailed' right over you at periscope depth.

I was like under ~10 degree on both sides. So yeah I provided a very small signature to them. I saw them before they saw me thats for sure. Which is why I waited surfaced until I could identify that they were destroyers then went to periscope depth to let them go by.
Kev

[TheDarkWraith]

DC water disturbances are now present since TDW released his very wellcomed and must have mod. One question about tactics using IRAI still persists though, are DDs ASDIC capabilities limited to speed? In real life any speed above 14 knots would turn the ship virtually deaf.

Yes, speed plays a part in their sonar and hydrophone

[Jaguar]

Yes, speed plays a part in their sonar and hydrophone
:up:

[oscar19681]

DD's will run to obvious attack locations. You may be to close when attacking using obvious attack location.
Try attack at night from farther away using T-1 Medium or Slow speed to avoid DD's. As soon as you loose torpedo's, turn away and run.
Just before Torpedo impact, go Silent Running and dive deep. Then go All Stop before DD comes within 2000 meters.
This Tactic works for me.

Actually this would be considered cheating. U-boats needed at leats 1 knots forward momentum to keep them from sinking into the depths. Turning of the electric engines was certainly a trick used by u-boat commanders , but sooner or later they had to fire up the engines again to make sure they wouldnt slowly sink to crush depth.

[Dignan]

Actually this would be considered cheating. U-boats needed at leats 1 knots forward momentum to keep them from sinking into the depths. Turning of the electric engines was certainly a trick used by u-boat commanders , but sooner or later they had to fire up the engines again to make sure they wouldnt slowly sink to crush depth.

so maybe the "depth keeping" bug is not a bug afterall.

[oscar19681]

so maybe the "depth keeping" bug is not a bug afterall.

Actually it is because the boat sinks under a certain depth even when maintaining forward momentum. The " bug ""would have been realistic if you where able to correct the depth when running silent. But it was only possible at speeds where the destoyers could here you.

[Vanilla]

It was already discussed - an U-boat would have no trouble keeping its depth to certain extent even with e-motors off. Trimming system and compressed air were there for a reason, so there would be no 'constant sinking' issue in a real boat. Precise depth keeping however could be very much an issue with no help from the horizontal planes. That is the boat could slowly move up or down certain extent due to not exactly neutral bouyancy, water currents, disturbances and density changes etc., but any constant and rapid accent or sinking momentum could be easily trimmed away.
So there would be no big problem in real-life with such a tactic although the boat could experience certain depth, heading and inclination fluctuations.

[oscar19681]

With this mod or MO-supermod are the DC,s modeled to go deeper after 1941 ? I would make sence that depthcharges are more affective depth wise and such. Its feb-1941 in my campaign and the DC,S never even come close when i,m at 150/180 meters. Would be kind of lame if i could dive to 150 meters to evade the DC,S 1943 for example. I did tone down the Destoyers to 85-95 and its the best trade off for a very interessting experience but i wonder if the depth charge depth is affected as well?

[oscar19681]

anyone?

[TheDarkWraith]

The depth charges fall to whatever distance the AI sets them to. There is no max depth as far as I know or have been able to find in the files. The amun_depthcharge controller makes no provisions for setting a maximum depth.

[oscar19681]

The depth charges fall to whatever distance the AI sets them to. There is no max depth as far as I know or have been able to find in the files. The amun_depthcharge controller makes no provisions for setting a maximum depth.

Well i noticed that they never go deeper then 100 meters. But its still march 1941. So maybe the AI will set them deeper after 1941 or something. Or maybe this has to do with the difficulty setting of the AI?

Anyone wish to comment on this?

[Dignan]

I would always install/remove mods in port.
The new antenna is the radio DF loop. It is part of the mod. You will also notice another antenna when you submerge. That is the radio antenna.
The mod changes all aspects of AI behavior.


TDW, is this radio antenna (looks like an ice pick) detectable by escorts? At periscope depth it sticks out of the water and if you want to move while at p depth, it produces a wake and a splash. Any way to lower this thing?

[oscar19681]

TDW, is this radio antenna (looks like an ice pick) detectable by escorts? At periscope depth it sticks out of the water and if you want to move while at p depth, it produces a wake and a splash. Any way to lower this thing?

I think you have to change something in the equipment file. Not sure how to thought but i think its either always down or allways up. I would love to have this thing allways down.

[Dignan]

I think you have to change something in the equipment file. Not sure how to thought but i think its either always down or allways up. I would love to have this thing allways down.

It should be possible to put it down because I think it goes down when you surface. At least I don't remember seeing it surfaced.

[TheBeast]

TDW, is this radio antenna (looks like an ice pick) detectable by escorts? At periscope depth it sticks out of the water and if you want to move while at p depth, it produces a wake and a splash. Any way to lower this thing?

The height setting for the Rod Antenna is in the UBoot_Sensors.sim
For that matter, all extend heights for Periscopes and Antenna are located there.

Personally, I would like to see the Rod Antenna up out of the Tower about 1 meter and not extend any higher, even when srufaced.
If the Antenna actually effected the communications radio and public radio it would be a different story.
Would be nice to be at periscope depth and have the Public Radio stations working if the Rod Antenna is extended.

Sounds like you are using your Observation Periscope when attacking?
If you go to 15m or more depth, the Rod Antenna Wake and Splash stop.

[oscar19681]

The height setting for the Rod Antenna is in the UBoot_Sensors.sim
For that matter, all extend heights for Periscopes and Antenna are located there.

Personally, I would like to see the Rod Antenna up out of the Tower about 1 meter and not extend any higher, even when srufaced.
If the Antenna actually effected the communications radio and public radio it would be a different story.
Would be nice to be at periscope depth and have the Public Radio stations working if the Rod Antenna is extended.

Sounds like you are using your Observation Periscope when attacking?
If you go to 15m or more depth, the Rod Antenna Wake and Splash stop.

where exacly is the u-boat sensor sim located? how do you open it?

[Dignan]

Sounds like you are using your Observation Periscope when attacking?
If you go to 15m or more depth, the Rod Antenna Wake and Splash stop.

I was actually evading some planes that were in the area so I was taking a peek with the obs scope before surfacing.

[Not_Yet _Kameraden]

Does the merchants visual sensor value determine its ability to detect torpedoes? I've been finding it very hard to attack convoys without them changing speed before the first one hits. I try to set them as deep as possible to avoid detection but they always manage to detect them. Even in crappy weather/night time.

[stoianm]

Does the merchants visual sensor value determine its ability to detect torpedoes? I've been finding it very hard to attack convoys without them changing speed before the first one hits. I try to set them as deep as possible to avoid detection but they always manage to detect them. Even in crappy weather/night time.
you shoot for long distance? .. i think they detect the torpedos but i dunno wy detect also in night time... when i play they detect my torpedo only if i make long shoots (around 5 km).. tdw must know this better

[Not_Yet _Kameraden]

ya usually i'm firing a long range at slow speed for my first 2 shots to give me time for the other ship in the column time to line up with my shot. By the time i fire my last 2 torps at fast the whole convoy is starting to slow down already. Resulting in my first 2 shots to miss.

Im thinking when they pass near another boat the AI knows this even under bad conditions thus alerting the rest of the group. On a sunny clear calm day i can understand this being possible...

edit: I usually fire at around 3km for my first 2 slow shots because of the speed changing they do.

[stoianm]

ya usually i'm firing a long range at slow speed for my first 2 shots to give me time for the other ship in the column time to line up with my shot. By the time i fire my last 2 torps at fast the whole convoy is starting to slow down already. Resulting in my first 2 shots to miss.

Im thinking when they pass near another boat the AI knows this even under bad conditions thus alerting the rest of the group. On a sunny clear calm day i can understand this being possible...
i can not follow you precise but you say you put your torpedos in the ship from behind and they pass near few ships before hit the target... if yes than i think because of that the convoy change speed... with this evil irai by tdw you must to plan your attack very well... when you hunt convoys you must to use some tactics... depends how you want to attack the ships.. same line or same row... but the most important is that all the torpedo to explode in same time... if you have time you can watch some tutorials:



EDIT: i think this one - i have not problems if i attack convoys like this with irai v30 by default

11) How to attack Convoys in SH5 ==> Link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1629506&postcount=25)


regards

[Not_Yet _Kameraden]

I was using the method in that video yes.

Did you change any of your merchant settings IRAI or keep them as is?

[stoianm]

I was using the method in that video yes.

Did you change any of your merchant settings IRAI or keep them as is?
no i do not change... i use by default... so you was at 90 degrees and you wanted to hit ships in same row?... and they changed speed and you missed all the torpedos?... if yes i do not understand how you say that torpedoes pass near some ships first before to hit the loked ship?:hmmm:... i can not follow you

[TheBeast]

ya usually i'm firing a long range at slow speed for my first 2 shots to give me time for the other ship in the column time to line up with my shot. By the time i fire my last 2 torps at fast the whole convoy is starting to slow down already. Resulting in my first 2 shots to miss.

Im thinking when they pass near another boat the AI knows this even under bad conditions thus alerting the rest of the group. On a sunny clear calm day i can understand this being possible...

edit: I usually fire at around 3km for my first 2 slow shots because of the speed changing they do.
Even at night with bad weather Merchant still have a short visual detection range for Torpedo Wakes of about 300 meters. Not sure of actual ranges as I have never looked for this info.
The Merchants are about 1000-1500 meters apart. You should be able to slip a few T1's within the Convoy with out detection if fired at at the correct AOB to pass between the closer ships.

Personally, if I have to close to 3000 meters to attack, I would just get in the convoy and attack. The escorts have a hard time finding you when you are in the middle of the Convoy. Pulling the trigger at 3k meters is like launching a flare telling all the escorts "Here I am!:rock:Come get me."

[stoianm]

Even at night with bad weather Merchant still have a short visual detection range for Torpedo Wakes of about 300 meters. Not sure of actual ranges as I have never looked for this info.
The Merchants are about 1000-1500 meters apart. You should be able to slip a few T1's within the Convoy with out detection if fired at at the correct AOB to pass between the closer ships.

Personally, if I have to close to 3000 meters to attack, I would just get in the convoy and attack. The escorts have a hard time finding you when you are in the middle of the Convoy. Pulling the trigger at 3k meters is like launching a flare telling all the escorts "Here I am!:rock:Come get me."

:up:- tjs is a good method ... i will make a tutorial for that:D.. i used this method few times and the dds and the ships are very confused... but this can be used only when you have the elctric torpedo ... later on the year ... the ones that folow the target... i am not sure but i think zedi told me few months ago that he use this tactic like this... i will read more to be informed corecly... because if you are in the middle of convooy and you use steam torpedo les than 300-350 metters this is not immersive... i read that they have not time to arm the piston and explode...they neede at least 300 meters or more... not remember well

[TheBeast]

:up:- tjs is a good method ... i will make a tutorial for that:D.. i used this method few times and the dds and the ships are very confused... but this can be used only when you have the elctric torpedo ... later on the year ... the ones that folow the target... i am not sure but i think zedi told me few months ago that he use this tactic like this... i will read more to be informed corecly... because if you are in the middle of convooy and you use steam torpedo les than 300-350 metters this is not immersive... i read that they have not time to arm the piston and explode...they neede at least 300 meters or more... not remember well
Toredo Arm time is determined by TIME not RANGE. With that said, pulling the trigger on a target 400 meters away would not be wise as you may (in real life) sink your self at the same time.
Would be very cool if you could get interior shake effect for any detonation within 1000 meters.
A T1 set to High Speed needs to travel approximately 400 meters to arm. I made a 1000 meter Bearing Plotter that has the 400 and 800 meter rings bold. 400 metes for min range and 800 for optimal range.
I have watched torpedo's bounce along the boat side a couple times before it exploaded when firing at minimum range. I think it was a TIV electric.

[stoianm]

Toredo Arm time is determined by TIME not RANGE. With that said, pulling the trigger on a target 400 meters away would not be wise as you may (in real life) sink your self at the same time.
Would be very cool if you could get interior shake effect for any detonation within 1000 meters.
A T1 set to High Speed needs to travel approximately 400 meters to arm. I made a 1000 meter Bearing Plotter that has the 400 and 800 meter rings bold. 400 metes for min range and 800 for optimal range.
I have watched torpedo's bounce along the boat side a couple times before it exploaded when firing at minimum range. I think it was a TIV electric.yes scuse me ... i was spoked by range but i was refering at time... time is related to range all the time:DL... i not know exactly how manny time needed torpedo to arm... i was spoked only from memory... i will ask magic1111... he know a lot about torpedos... or maybe you can give me a link to read about that... tnx

[Dignan]

The height setting for the Rod Antenna is in the UBoot_Sensors.sim
For that matter, all extend heights for Periscopes and Antenna are located there.

Personally, I would like to see the Rod Antenna up out of the Tower about 1 meter and not extend any higher, even when srufaced.
If the Antenna actually effected the communications radio and public radio it would be a different story.
Would be nice to be at periscope depth and have the Public Radio stations working if the Rod Antenna is extended.

Sounds like you are using your Observation Periscope when attacking?
If you go to 15m or more depth, the Rod Antenna Wake and Splash stop.

Beast, can you point me to the exact entry in the uboat.sim file where the radio rod is located? I'd really like to get this thing lowered. I see radar detector, RadarDF Loop but no Radio Rod or Radio Antena in any of the files.

[Magic1111]

:up:- tjs is a good method ... i will make a tutorial for that:D.. i used this method few times and the dds and the ships are very confused... but this can be used only when you have the elctric torpedo ... later on the year ... the ones that folow the target... i am not sure but i think zedi told me few months ago that he use this tactic like this... i will read more to be informed corecly... because if you are in the middle of convooy and you use steam torpedo les than 300-350 metters this is not immersive... i read that they have not time to arm the piston and explode...they neede at least 300 meters or more... not remember well

Hi !

Torpedoes detonated only after a running distance of 300 m, otherwise the boat would have jeopardized their own !

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[Dignan]

I was going through the English Channel again this past weekend (heading west to my patrol area). The weather turned foggy (navigator said "medium" fog) as I was sailing somewhere west of Calais when two destroyers got the drop on me in the fog again.

Had to crash dive and evaded them for about 2 hours game time. They eventually lost contact and returned to their patrol patterns but it made for some scary encounters, not to mention they shot me up on the surface a bit before I could crash dive.

My question is am I stupid to try to transit the English channel with IRAI escorts out there? BDU advised against it saying it was mined but I just don't want to go all the way around England to the North. Takes forever.

My second question is should I have radar detection in 1939? Maybe my sub isn't equiped with it yet but I'm guessing that's how they found me and radar detection would have helped me evade them before they got within visual range in the fog.

I'm using Real environment revision 2. The Medium fog in RE seems a bit too heavy for my liking. Are there any submods that make the medium fog not so foggy?

[stoianm]

Hi !

Torpedoes detonated only after a running distance of 300 m, otherwise the boat would have jeopardized their own !

Best regards,
Magic:salute:
Thank you... i made a movie and if i knew that you know so much about torpedoes i would give you the rol of the ,,torpedo man'':)

[Zedi]

Had to crash dive.... somewhere west of Calais ... and evaded them for about 2 hours game time...

Nice story :haha:

[stoianm]

I was going through the English Channel again this past weekend (heading west to my patrol area). The weather turned foggy (navigator said "medium" fog) as I was sailing somewhere west of Calais when two destroyers got the drop on me in the fog again.

Had to crash dive and evaded them for about 2 hours game time. They eventually lost contact and returned to their patrol patterns but it made for some scary encounters, not to mention they shot me up on the surface a bit before I could crash dive.

My question is am I stupid to try to transit the English channel with IRAI escorts out there? BDU advised against it saying it was mined but I just don't want to go all the way around England to the North. Takes forever.

My second question is should I have radar detection in 1939? Maybe my sub isn't equiped with it yet but I'm guessing that's how they found me and radar detection would have helped me evade them before they got within visual range in the fog.

I'm using Real environment revision 2. The Medium fog in RE seems a bit too heavy for my liking. Are there any submods that make the medium fog not so foggy?

1) i never go to the English channel... the irai it is so evil that i do not stand anny chance to pass by there

2) yes... try this one:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2925

[d3vnu11]

1) i never go to the English channel... the irai it is so evil that i do not stand anny chance to pass by there

2) yes... try this one:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2925

Same for me I never transit the English Channel either. It's to risky best I'll do is stay at the mouth of the channel looking for some targets.

[oscar19681]

You can transit it. In good weather that is. But when you get spotted by a Destoyer your as good as dead since its way to shallow.

[Zedi]

Thats why I had a laugh on.. crash dive and evading destroyers in shallow waters :DL

[Dignan]

Thats why I had a laugh on.. crash dive and evading destroyers in shallow waters :DL

Yep. It was a bit shallow indeed. I immediately had to order a reversal of depth to keep from smashing into the sea bottom but the DDs had opened up on me at short range with their 5 in guns so I had to get under quick...hence the crash dive. I think I was lucky because the sea was a bit rough so their sensors were not as sharp. I dove down as deep as I could go and went silent. They made one or two DC runs on me but none of them hit home.

For anyone wondering I've customized my IRAI difficulty file to 85-95 for escorts on all sensors. Does anyone find this setting too easy? I thought 100 was too hard but I might increase the difficulty just a little bit.

So my lesson here is NEVER GO THROUGH THE ENGLISH CHANNEL. Noted...

[stoianm]

Yep. It was a bit shallow indeed. I immediately had to order a reversal of depth to keep from smashing into the sea bottom but the DDs had opened up on me at short range with their 5 in guns so I had to get under quick...hence the crash dive. I think I was lucky because the sea was a bit rough so their sensors were not as sharp. I dove down as deep as I could go and went silent. They made one or two DC runs on me but none of them hit home.

For anyone wondering I've customized my IRAI difficulty file to 85-95 for escorts on all sensors. Does anyone find this setting too easy? I thought 100 was too hard but I might increase the difficulty just a little bit.

So my lesson here is NEVER GO THROUGH THE ENGLISH CHANNEL. Noted...
i do not understad how you can excape with irai by default from 3 destroyers... i had last time 3 on me... i managed to sunk one of them and took me 1 day game to escape from 2 others.. they putted a lot of depth charges on me

[Dignan]

i do not understad how you can excape with irai by default from 3 destroyers... i had last time 3 on me... i managed to sunk one of them and took me 1 day game to escape from 2 others.. they putted a lot of depth charges on me

First, it was only two destroyers. If I said 3, I was mistaken.

What are your evasion strategies like?

Like I said, the weather was crappy and the sea state was high which works in your favor as the DDs have a harder time hearing you in high seas. I had about 60 meters to play with. Secondly, I have had a lot of experience evading elite escorts in SH4 using the Triggur Maru mod. Try it sometime. It's scary.

This is my strategy when detected and the DDs are approaching.

1. Crash dive and order full right or left rudder (usually doesn't matter)
2. straighten out my course and order ahead slow (1) + silent running
3. Usually at this point they have come back around for another DC attack. When your soundman calls out "Wasserbomen" order ahead flank and make another drastic course change. After about 10 seconds stop engines and coast. You should be fairly deep at this point. 100m if possible (deeper the better..."that's what she......"nevermind). If they still have you pegged under active sonar (pinging) repeat step three until you're out of active pinging.
4. At this point, I monitor my sonar contacts and when the DDs are moving away and their stern is facing me, I go ahead slow for short periods of time. As soon as one of the DDs begins to come back around (when I hear "warship constant distance") I cut engines again. (I still use sonar contact lines because I believe it simulates the help you would get from your sonarman)
5. Repeat step 4 until you've gotten away from the original position. If you've done everything right, the DDs will be looking for you where they think you are (usually where you dove) and not where you are. As the distance between you and the DDs gets greater you can order higher speeds and still remain undetected.


I suppose its possible that I overwrote the IRAI files with another mod but I don't think so. You helped me get my mod order correct :haha: so I'm pretty confident it is right. I'll check when I get home tonight and post it.

[stoianm]

First, it was only two destroyers. If I said 3, I was mistaken.

What are your evasion strategies like?

Like I said, the weather was crappy and the sea state was high which works in your favor as the DDs have a harder time hearing you in high seas. I had about 60 meters to play with. Secondly, I have had a lot of experience evading elite escrots in SH4 using the Triggur Maru mod. Try it sometime. It's scary.

This is my strategy when detected and the DDs are approaching.

1. Crash dive and order full right or left rudder (doesn't matter)
2. straighten out my course and order ahead slow (1) + silent running
3. Usually at this point they have come back around for another DC attack. When your soundman calls out "Wasserbomen" order ahead flank and make another drastic course change. After about 10 seconds stop engines and coast. You should be fairly deep at this point. 100m if possible
4. At this point, I monitor my sonar contacts and when the DDs are moving away and their stern is facing me, I go ahead slow for short periods of time. As soon as one of the DDs begins to come back around (when I hear "warship constant distance") I cut engines again. (I still use sonar contact lines because I believe it simulates the help you would get from your sonarman)
5. Repeat step 4 until you've gotten away from the original position. If you've done everything right, the DDs will be looking for you where they think you are (usually where you dove) and not where you are. As the distance between you and the DDs gets greater you can order higher speeds and still remain undetected.


I suppose its possible that I overwrote the IRAI files with another mod but I don't think so. You helped me get my mod order correct :haha: so I'm pretty confident it is right. I'll check when I get home tonight and post it.
No you did not said 3 dds... i dunno why i was suposed that you said 3... then my tactics are the same with yours... i do not run 10 seconds after wasserbomben... i run around 35-40 after the last one... because i use the TDW mod wich cut the DDs sensors for 45 seconds when is noise in the water... i supouse that maybe my random factor from IRAI si close to max almoust all the time in my game and your is maybe close to minim (you are lucky:DL)... and it is not other mod that overwritte the irai in my mod soup

[Dignan]

No you did not said 3 dds... i dunno why i was suposed that you said 3... then my tactics are the same with yours... i do not run 10 seconds after wasserbomben... i run around 35-40 after the last one... because i use the TDW mod wich cut the DDs sensors for 45 seconds when is noise in the water... i supouse that maybe my random factor from IRAI si close to max almoust all the time in my game and your is maybe close to minim (you are lucky:DL)... and it is not other mod that overwritte the irai in my mod soup

Could be. I also don't know if they were novice, hard, elite, etc? I guess you won't know that unless you start looking through the game files.

[stoianm]

I think it is the time that we must to open a thread and all of us to come there with ideeas and with advice from ours game experience to try to build an perfect startegy to defeat this evil IRAI of TDW... now i am afraid to attack an convoy each time when i spot them:timeout:... it is like lottery.. i dunno if i will escape one piece after... and i do not want to speak about when i am forced to hunt an capital ship or an aircraft carier:timeout:.. we all togheter we will defeat this irai for sure (even if TDW will try to add smoked depth charges or i dunno what mortal weapons on the DDs arsenal :DL)

[Zedi]

In shallow waters I find it impossible to escape from destroyers. Maybe 1 hour.. 2.. but not more as you will deplete the batteries. Gibraltar where is no shallow water is still almost impossible to pass. The only strategy is to wait for bad weather and fog then try to slip through slowly. If your detected, "load game" is your friend.

In 43 when the escorts have radars I had to disable IRAI and real navigation to pass Gibraltar just to test missions in Open Horizon. Is no way to make it alive using 100% realism. Just when you enter the strait you feel the blood rushing through your veins.. every second is a pain by expecting a patrol to pop out from the darkness...

[Jaguar]

I think it is the time that we must to open a thread and all of us to come there with ideeas and with advice from ours game experience to try to build an perfect startegy to defeat this evil IRAI of TDW... now i am afraid to attack an convoy each time when i spot them:timeout:... it is like lottery.. i dunno if i will escape one piece after... and i do not want to speak about when i am forced to hunt an capital ship or an aircraft carier:timeout:.. we all togheter we will defeat this irai for sure (even if TDW will try to add smoked depth charges or i dunno what mortal weapons on the DDs arsenal :DL)

Well stoi, lets not forget we are doomed from the beggining :03:, the only way to defeat them is to get the type XXI in SH6 :D . VIIs and IXs were obsolete after 43 :dead::dead:. I guess it was after the Black May losses raised to 75% in each patrol, surfing in u-boat.net I couldn´t find any boats outside norwegian bases that survived for more than 2/3 patrols.

[d3vnu11]

So it's seems IRAI .30 and no Hydrophone no aircraft spotting is breaking the hydrophone at periscope depth. at 17M I can hear a ship coming at 12M I can not. Without this mod the hydrophone appears to work correctly except sometime I see a ship type but don't hear any sound. Using the Hydrophone patch of course..
Regards,
Kevin

[Teiwaz]

I think it is the time that we must to open a thread and all of us to come there with ideeas and with advice from ours game experience to try to build an perfect startegy to defeat this evil IRAI of TDW... now i am afraid to attack an convoy each time when i spot them:timeout:... it is like lottery.. i dunno if i will escape one piece after... and i do not want to speak about when i am forced to hunt an capital ship or an aircraft carier:timeout:.. we all togheter we will defeat this irai for sure (even if TDW will try to add smoked depth charges or i dunno what mortal weapons on the DDs arsenal :DL)

Well, if the abilities (== values in IRAI .cfg-files) you give the AI can be considerd cheating there is (at some point) no way of beating this AI (without cheating yourself) - simple balancing aspect ;) But it's also true that going on patrol starting sometime in '43 meant almost certain death for U-Boat crews:arrgh!: So my guess is that IRAI settings may be to high for '39-'42 and get more realistic after '42. Would need a lot of long term testing to get a "perfect" balance (and maybe different settings for early and late war years). But something like perfect balance doesn't exist IMHO ;)

[marleymen]

So it's seems IRAI .30 and no Hydrophone no aircraft spotting is breaking the hydrophone at periscope depth. at 17M I can hear a ship coming at 12M I can not. Without this mod the hydrophone appears to work correctly except sometime I see a ship type but don't hear any sound. Using the Hydrophone patch of course..
Regards,
Kevin

Happened to me too. Not a IRAI issue. It´s because of a "mod soup" or you changed mods not at Base.

Try starting a new campaign.