Just missed a TF

[K-61]

I came soooo close to bagging some precious RN warships from a TF down near the Canary Islands. I'm on my maiden patrol in my new IXC; used up most of my renown from four patrols in a VIIB to buy her. A foggy night with low visibility, so I can hear more down there than I can see from up here, to quote Das Boot. After several hours submerged I get a contact from my hydrophone man, warship contacts from astern, closing fast. I was trolling along at 25 metres, so I ordered full speed and up to scope depth. Realizing I would never catch them this way I quickly surfaced and made a high speed run, disengaging battery recharge so I could squeeze out every knot.

I got to within just under 6,000 metres but could not see them. They were so tanatalizingly close; I did use the "cheat" X-ray vision once I realized I was not going to be able to attack, just to see what I missed but could not dishonour myself by using a game exploit to magically see what in reality was too far away on a dark night for me to spot for an attack. I really dislike using game faults to cheat tonnage.

Using the magic lenses I was able to make out several destroyers of the Tribal and Hunt classes and several Dido cruisers. It hurts to see them get away, but I have fond memories of nailing such TF's in other careers. I feel sorry for those guys who have never had the luck of nailing a TF at sea. On the other hand, in spite of always calling in my convoy sightings, I have yet to see a Luftwaffe strike. I share Jurgen Prochnow's cynical opinion of "Der Dicke."

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by K-61

I came soooo close to bagging some precious RN warships from a TF down near the Canary Islands. I'm on my maiden patrol in my new IXC; used up most of my renown from four patrols in a VIIB to buy her. A foggy night with low visibility, so I can hear more down there than I can see from up here, to quote Das Boot. After several hours submerged I get a contact from my hydrophone man, warship contacts from astern, closing fast. I was trolling along at 25 metres, so I ordered full speed and up to scope depth. Realizing I would never catch them this way I quickly surfaced and made a high speed run, disengaging battery recharge so I could squeeze out every knot.

I got to within just under 6,000 metres but could not see them. They were so tanatalizingly close; I did use the "cheat" X-ray vision once I realized I was not going to be able to attack, just to see what I missed but could not dishonour myself by using a game exploit to magically see what in reality was too far away on a dark night for me to spot for an attack. I really dislike using game faults to cheat tonnage.

Using the magic lenses I was able to make out several destroyers of the Tribal and Hunt classes and several Dido cruisers. It hurts to see them get away, but I have fond memories of nailing such TF's in other careers. I feel sorry for those guys who have never had the luck of nailing a TF at sea. On the other hand, in spite of always calling in my convoy sightings, I have yet to see a Luftwaffe strike. I share Jurgen Prochnow's cynical opinion of "Der Dicke."

Good luck,next time

[U777]

Who knows maybe it was a blessing in disguise. BTW we have x-ray vision?

[Pebble Monkey]

Sounds like the kind of bad luck I'm having in my latest career.

U18 ought to be renumbered U13!

6 patrols, and often get heavy fog or rain. When it does clear and I take a shot at something, 60% of the time they don't sink, just sit there, stern or bows underwater but not enough to overcome the buoyancy of the other compartments, and with only 5 eels I rarely have a spare one to throw at em!

As soon as I can manage to sink anything to earn some reknown, and as soon as they're available, I'm switching my II for a VII!

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by U777

Who knows maybe it was a blessing in disguise. BTW we have x-ray vision?

are good enough

[desirableroasted]

The risk-reward ratio of attacking a task force is so thin that just reading your musings sends a chill down my spine.

Seriously, going after a TF of Tribals and Didos -- chasing them no less, too -- is like swatting a hornet's nest with the palm of your hand. Doable, sure; painful, certainly; no glory earned (as far as I remember, the reknown gained from a Dido is not much different from that of a small merchant).

I will examine a TF if it is bearing down on me anyway... and if there is a BB or carrier in the middle, which is rare, I will take a shot at the capital ship if conditions are right. But going after a bunch of cans and Didos seems pretty much a waste of munitions and hardly worth the risk.

As long as one is not detected on the approach and there's plenty of deep water, attacking a task force isn't so bad in my experience. If you are detected, you can always dive deep, and call it a day. Just don't get greedy and keep attacking.

I agree with desirableroasted, in that it's not worth attacking them unless there's a pretty succulent target in their ranks.

[ralphnader23]

Those destroyers give me so much trouble, that I always feel obliged to give them a little pain back, on the rare occasion that I can sneak up on them.

[Gerald]

to act when you make contact with TF,you need to quickly determine the position, and if it is possible to intercept, you do not lose anything if you have the power to confront any of the ships and if it is shallow or deep water does not matter but some deep water has advantage,strike quickly and then disappear, but see a TF as a standard convoy although they move faster than a "normal" convoy but remember you have the upper hand as long as you are Sharpe and is under the surface

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by K-61

I came soooo close to bagging some precious RN warships from a TF down near the Canary Islands. I'm on my maiden patrol in my new IXC; used up most of my renown from four patrols in a VIIB to buy her. A foggy night with low visibility, so I can hear more down there than I can see from up here, to quote Das Boot. After several hours submerged I get a contact from my hydrophone man, warship contacts from astern, closing fast. I was trolling along at 25 metres, so I ordered full speed and up to scope depth. Realizing I would never catch them this way I quickly surfaced and made a high speed run, disengaging battery recharge so I could squeeze out every knot.

I got to within just under 6,000 metres but could not see them. They were so tanatalizingly close; I did use the "cheat" X-ray vision once I realized I was not going to be able to attack, just to see what I missed but could not dishonour myself by using a game exploit to magically see what in reality was too far away on a dark night for me to spot for an attack. I really dislike using game faults to cheat tonnage.

Using the magic lenses I was able to make out several destroyers of the Tribal and Hunt classes and several Dido cruisers. It hurts to see them get away, but I have fond memories of nailing such TF's in other careers. I feel sorry for those guys who have never had the luck of nailing a TF at sea. On the other hand, in spite of always calling in my convoy sightings, I have yet to see a Luftwaffe strike. I share Jurgen Prochnow's cynical opinion of "Der Dicke."

The chances are you will experience similar in the future but eventually your luck will turn and you will be favourably positioned.

That experience will make it all worthwhile

[Brag]

Being in a good position to attack at the beginning is the only way to score on a TF. So, it is really a matter of luck.

The enemy reaction is usually no worse than from convoy escorts.

[K-61]

As I said in my original post, I have enjoyed success in the past against TF's, but the target does have to be worth it. A BB or CV is definitely worth the risk. As I try to simulate a real Kaleun's career and not play an arcade game, I try to make a historically realistic choice, even if it may not be "prudent" by game standards. Doenitz would cashier any commander who chose not to attack a BB or CV simply because he was afraid of retaliation. I've nailed CV's and BB's several times from task forces and it sure feels good. On all occasions I have gotten away with it, but convoy escorts do nail me now and then.

Nailing a task force is a matter of luck, but skill plays a role. You need skill to quickly set up an approach to attack, execution and evasion. I have had several where my watch crew reported contacts astern. That means the target is fast, and TF's are fast. It gives you a creepy feeling to know that something is coming up fast from astern. You cannot outrun it at your own maximum speed, so you are immediately forced to take either evasive action to hide and hope they don't see you, or begun to hunt, and be snappy about it! In the most recent action it may have been possible to launch G7A's on medium setting and hope for a hit, but the low visibility prevented that. With a heavy heart I had to reduce speed and resume course to my patrol zone. I can only imagine how many times targets unwittingly lived to see another day because they were just out of range of attack by an unseen U-boat.

I avoid hunting in shallow waters unless I am reasonably certain that I can avoid patrols. I like to hunt in the Hebrides early war but avoid it from late 40 onwards. I've never sailed through there in 41 and have no intention of doing so. I also break off contact with convoys if they are approaching the coastline of the British isles. I have no desire to try evading in 40 or 50 metres of water. Real life considerations must be taken into account if you wish to play this sim in accordance with historical roleplaying. I don't like to "die" and have to start a new career and I would rather live and come home without a kill than to kill but die in the attempt.

[K-61]

Originally Posted by U777

Who knows maybe it was a blessing in disguise. BTW we have x-ray vision?

We do indeed, but taking advantage of it is considered "gamey" by die hard simmers. In dirty weather, you can use the scopes or UZO to "see" targets that are beyond visual range. You simply rotate the scope or UZO a degree or two at a time and quickly press the "L" key [lock] to briefly lock up a target. If you have auto targeting enabled it will give you a description of the target and range to target. You can then use this information to plot an attack for when it does come into visual range.

As I said, you can use this, but it is taking advantage of the game's weakness that fails to take into account the current visual environment. That's why we call it "X-ray vision." I don't use it because I wish to play under the constraints of real world sensors. I also do not use the hydrophone plotting method as the hydrophone gear of WW2 U-boats was not precise enough to give accurate bearings for acoustic only plotting. I do use the hydrophones to hunt when submerged, but only to establish relative bearings in order to set up a visual attack. The final generation of WW2 U-boats had improved hydrophones, but they were too little, too late. Had those advanced U-boats made it into the war in a timely fashion they may have proved to be war winners, but we'll never know. It's like the ME-262; could have been but wasn't.

[U777]

Originally Posted by K-61

We do indeed, but taking advantage of it is considered "gamey" by die hard simmers. In dirty weather, you can use the scopes or UZO to "see" targets that are beyond visual range. You simply rotate the scope or UZO a degree or two at a time and quickly press the "L" key [lock] to briefly lock up a target. If you have auto targeting enabled it will give you a description of the target and range to target. You can then use this information to plot an attack for when it does come into visual range.

As I said, you can use this, but it is taking advantage of the game's weakness that fails to take into account the current visual environment. That's why we call it "X-ray vision." I don't use it because I wish to play under the constraints of real world sensors. I also do not use the hydrophone plotting method as the hydrophone gear of WW2 U-boats was not precise enough to give accurate bearings for acoustic only plotting. I do use the hydrophones to hunt when submerged, but only to establish relative bearings in order to set up a visual attack. The final generation of WW2 U-boats had improved hydrophones, but they were too little, too late. Had those advanced U-boats made it into the war in a timely fashion they may have proved to be war winners, but we'll never know. It's like the ME-262; could have been but wasn't.

I get what you mean now. As for TF's I avoid them but there was one time where I accidently ran into a small one and bagged a destroyer.

[Alpha Von Burg]

As mentioned before, know the risk and the rewards that follow.
In my opinion, it's a waste of amunition to sink a destroyer, in terms of tonnage. I only sink destroyers if ti reduces the treat but sinking only a destroyer in a TF full of them those not reduce the risk.

I only find it worth the risk when I know a BB is present in the TF and when I can see them before they see me, in other words, consider the weather.