Are there any real deal breakers in SH5 ?

[horsa]

kylania

That and most everything on your "non-moddable" list is completely moddable.

Good news. SH5 has a future then. Two years down the track and it will be a classic game. For the moment I leave you and folk like HundertzehnGustav to point out the ethical problems with that.

Care to elaborate on how/where each of those items could be modded ? Just interested.

HundertzehnGustav

but not every SH Player ever is a part of subsim or some other subsim forum...

for all those people that are not into modding, doing or using,
for those people SHV...

IS

broken.

Quite. I guess casual buyers must make up a bigger part of UBI's potential market than subsim members. I can't see how this game can be impressing them.

Eaf274 Johan

lack of functionality of the hydrophones station. Unless I am missing something, I can't change the volume, use the mouse to select a bearing, or identify a target with the notepad. I also seem to be unable to hear ships breaking up, and so far I haven't heard the "sound guy" warn me of depth charges or destroyers on their attack run.

Thanks. Noted.

[horsa]

Coldcall
on this thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166452

The word from the techies/modders is that the one thing that they may not be able to fix is the AI as its hardwired/coded. Which i believe means the program needs to be recompiled with the new code fixing the AI. Scripts wont do it.

So the idea is that if Ubisoft Romania have a finite amnouint of time to spend on the patch, then they should concentrate on the AI which cant be fixed by the modders.

The modders have already demonstrated that they can reach into most aspects of the game, except the AI issues.

This seems to back up Kylania's post.

Interesting. So are we are down to AI as the only deal breaker. ??

[thyro]

Originally Posted by horsa

SECOND STEP - OK let's weed a few out.

Special Case

1. 'online' requirement.

The pro argument says this is the future. Without it PC game development might cease.
For some players this is a complete no no . No compromise. End of story.

SH5 plus others on the shelves or being sold at £5 after 2 months release. End of story

[Solyne]

For me, well, I am a bit frustrated. Eventually I got rid of the server stored saved games, so that's maybe okay now. I frankly do not like this thing about being on line to play a single player game. I do have a cable connection, but live in a terribly prone area to black outs due to tropical weather come summer, and while electricity is a stopper, we usually have that back in a day or two, but cable can be out for weeks on end. I play MMOs a lot and need cable for those, but when it is down Silent Hunter is running 100% of the time.

There is no excuse for the requirement for a full time internet connection, and the interuption of my single play against the AI if the internet goes down.

SHIV was far better in many respects than SHV. I do admit that I absolutely love being able to walk around the boat and chat with my people, of course they have nothing to say so I guess it's like conversing with my lover... Oye, the game is so damned realistic *rolls eyes*

In the end, and being a dedicated player of Silent Hunter since the first version came out, I still play SHIV more than SHV since the release of SHV.

I guess that says it all right there, except that, regardless of whether I play this sim or not, UBI got my money already.

I am disappointed, but it is not a stopper.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by horsa

The Auto TDC system is a design featureand has been changed to a point and shoot system that needs practice. For the casual player this has become more difficult than "lock on and hit target nearly every time". Good or bad ?
For Manual TDC folk it's irrelevant.
If you are an auto TDC guy is this a deal breaker for you ?
Beck: Its very easy to use. I used to be a PoS guy, but this adds just a LITTLE bit more.

RPG approach is another design feature. Does a sub sim lend itself to RPG ? Wasn't this already in SH3 and SH4 when you issued orders to crew members? The SH5 system is different and doesn't work well. Isn't this scripted ? In which case it becomes moddable.
Maybe the author was refering to the whole game centred on the FPS Captain. Tiresome necessity or hard core realism ?
Is this different system a deal breaker for you ?
Beck: Can be modded. These should be the files to use:
CrewMembers.upc + SpecialAbilities.upc
Dialogs:\data\Scripts\AI\Dialogs_Default

Damage effects/control looks broken. Patchable ? Moddable ?
Deal breaker ?
Beck: Can be modded to some extend

Poor AI is the bane of a lot of games. From what I hear some AI is good but then you have DDs that run off into the woods and ships that crash into docks and explode. This looks like a patchable issue. Some posters have reported that some ( if not all) AI is scripted and therefore moddable. We'll see.
Deal breaker?
Beck: Can be modded to some extend

No Wolfpacks. Design feature. UBI's reluctance to take notice of the views of Subsim members and their mods of the last 5 years is not the issue here however valid the arguments. Sorry.
Deal breaker ?
Beck: They are in the game in some form, but if the form is to be changed, its a change in code.

No BDU radio traffic . Design feature. Same as above.

Lack of crew animation. I remember discussing the value of attempts at human avatars with Hitman and others many years ago. One school of thought was if they didn't work well they should be left out. If you can ignore them then you're still in. If not it's a deal breaker
Beck: Can be modded to some extend

No torpedo AI of any kind. Design feature. Same as above.

Weather, AI damage, map markings not saved in Save games. Doesn't this make saves useless ?Patchable ?
Deal breaker ?

See my comments above

[EAF274 Johan]

It's the "to some extent" bit that worries me. Only time will tell to what extent exactly. So I'd rather see those issues addressed in an official patch - idle hope, probably...

For example, I much prefer the SH4 interiors where I cannot walk around but at least I see the crew duck for cover or working on repairs rather than being able to go to the galley in SH5 but the crew stands passively.

[Nafod81]

Horsa,

I like the changes to the Auto TDC. As I now have to maneuver a bit to get a "good" shot.

For distance shots the manual option remains open. It's slightly aggravating that I cannot automatically hit targets at long ranges like in SHIII/IV but forces me to play a bit more.

Unfortunately it appears the AI is nowhere near as adept as it used to be and allows me to close the necessary distance.

I'd say the "bugged" but moddable (in fact already done) portion of this is the passive and active abilities of the torpedoman increase the speed of torpedoes, and the manual/auto TDC methods do not take these changes into account.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by horsa

Coldcall
on this thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166452

This seems to back up Kylania's post.

Interesting. So are we are down to AI as the only deal breaker. ??

Kylania probably understands the issue better than i, but from what Ive seen of the mods available so far, it appears that the one thing which requires some help from the devs is getting the AI to function to some degree of normality at the base code level.

It is really unchallenging at this stage and while its a beautiful maritime environment to cruise around in a sub, it is devoid of any feeling of tension or danger.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by EAF274 Johan

It's the "to some extent" bit that worries me. Only time will tell to what extent exactly. So I'd rather see those issues addressed in an official patch - idle hope, probably...

For example, I much prefer the SH4 interiors where I cannot walk around but at least I see the crew duck for cover or working on repairs rather than being able to go to the galley in SH5 but the crew stands passively.

The extend is where the scripts end and the code start...only time will tell
But its a comfort that the is the most open SH till date and look what have been done with previous versions

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

That may be true, Bones. But I don't know

.

Well done Neal..... a video speaks 1,000,000,000 words.

[Nico71]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

For example he wants a product that works well, right from the start.
Let unssay... he has no clue about fora, no idea of modding or subsim, and plays SHIII unpatched, and enjoys it.

Enjoy unpatched SH3? Hardly! SH3 was, at the time of release, in a pretty poor condition. I don't know why many people glorifiy SH3 as the Holy Grail of sub sims, especially in it's early form. Don't get me started on all those bugs it had. Just one example: A major bug in the SCR-layer of the campaign spawned all instances of scripted units of different time frames at once in the same place, making them crash and sink. As a result, the map was effectively wiped off any scripted traffic. Port traffic, ASW groups, historical events, whatever. I remember it so well because it was me who had the thankless task of going through each and every unit on the maps and all its instances, fixing this bug. It was a huge task! Eventually it was officially fixed in the second or third patch, I don't remember. I picked this example for a reason, BTW. When the issues with AI scripting in ports was mentioned, I suspected that something like this might be going on here, a problem with the scripting layer. Not the same problem, and not necessarily the AI per se. But when I saw it for the first time, my very first thought was: 'Oh, they screwed up the script layer.....again!' Not sure if this is really the case, but might be worth further investigation.

[Sailor Steve]

Nico! Good to hear from you again!

And I agree. SH3 needed a lot of work to get it where it is today, "Best subsim ever" and all that. I remember all the complaints it got before the patches were done.

[horsa]

@ McBeck
Thanks for the notes, Jonathan. The bounderies between moddable/not moddable seem to be blurred but looks like the 'deal breaker list' could lose a lot of its items.

Nafod81

I like the changes to the Auto TDC. As I now have to maneuver a bit to get a "good" shot.

Yep. I'm coming round to this way of thinking. Auto TDC was too easy in SH3 and 4. This makes it more challenging without making it impossible. Reminds me a little of 'Shells of Fury'.

[KiwiVenge]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

SH3 needed a lot of work to get it where it is today, "Best subsim ever" and all that. I remember all the complaints it got before the patches were done.

SH3 was in bad shape when it first came out. Nvidia bug was huge, Starforce was the DRM issue at the time and people hated it as well.
If I recall correctly SH3 had a lot more bugs relating to various hardware setups then SH5 does. The list went on and on and then on some more.
Not saying this excuses SH5's state upon release day, just saying it is par for the course with UBI and the SH series.

[Brag]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I know what I hear, but until I see it, I am not going out on a limb with unconditional support. Did that with SH4, not my turn to do it again (Ubi's turn).





That may be true, Bones. But I don't know

.

Difficult to believe that a serious company supposedly run by adults would release a product in such a state.