[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[gap]

As announced in another thread, I've started collecting information on historical specs of both AI and human playable guns featured in game. If I manage to do it, this knowledge is going to be included in a mod that will introduce a general rebalance of armaments /ammo / zones and armour system in SH5. So far, this the detailed list of features I plan to implement:

• Realistic guns specs:
  - train and elevation min and max angles;
  - train and elevation speeds;
  - train and elevation dispersions;
  - cyclic and practical firing rates (i.e. recoil and reload times);
  - muzzle velocity;
  - gun's max range;
  - gun's additional drag coefficients (left/right, up/down and front/rear for guns selectable as U-boat upgrades).
  
  
• Realistic ammo outfits for each gun:
  - round types;
  - number of round carried for each type;
  - number of rounds held per magazine.
  
  
• New shell definitions, reflecting different ammo used with different guns of the same caliber, with realistic damage figures:
  - detonation range;
  - min and max damage effects;
  - armour penetration;
  - min and max radius.
  
  
• Reworked FX:
  - different sounds for each of the main guns used in game (especially for sub's guns);
  - if needed: improved/new GFX effects for guns and shells featured.
  
  
• Reworked damage zones for ships and guns whose historical armour figures are known:
  - new zone definitions with realistic armour settings;
  - if needed: reworked/improved damage zones to reflect available historical data and expected sinking dynamics (including both vanilla and recently imported dat units).
  
  
• New ship definitions, with different and realistic gun equipments for each of the nations that operated them:
  - when needed: existing units cloned to reflect subclasses or different riggings/equipments of the same unit (for both GR2 and inported dat units);
  - if needed: revised ship's specs to reflect available historical data and expected in game behaviour (for both existing GR2 and dat units and their clones);
  - when needed: revised ship's equipment to reflect different armament outfits during the war and for different nations;
  - cloned units assigned in roster to the nations that historically used them.

In future, I could decide to make similar changes to torpedo / depth charges / aircraft weapon's systems.

This is the list of mods that, with permission by their respective authors, my project should be based on for maximum compatibility with (and among) them:

• Multiple UI's by TheDarkWraith
• IRAI by TheDarkWraith
• Fx Update by TheDarkWraith
• Alternate Sinking Mechanism by Bilge_Rat
• Ship inertia by TheDarkWraith
• AI Damage Control Patch by TheDarkWraith
• Equipmen Upgrades Fix by TheBeast
• Reworked Morale & Abilities by Rongel
• SH 5 Longer Repairs Equipment Upgrades Fix-version by Rongel
• Additional Merchant Ships by Cerberus62
• Historical Ship Equipment by Cerberus62
• Open Horizons II by Zedi and Trevally
• Mehr Traffic, Nationen und Schiffe by Uekel
• Smaller Flags for Warships by Uekel

Moreover, selected features and fixes from the following old mods will be possibly included in the present mod (again, granted that permission to do so will be given by their original authors):

• Wamphyri's Plane Attack Mod by Wamphyri
• Funelsmoke, Planes and Sounds by AOTD_MadMax
• Rückkehr der Asse by AOTD_MadMax
• Better and Realistic Flotation by Arclight
• Natural Sinking Mechanics (SH IV) by WernerSobe
• Tracer Mod (SH IV) by Von M
• Gun Sound Muzzle Flash (SH IV) by Karle94

If you think that my list is missing any important mod that the present project might conflict with, or that shoud be included in it anyway, please let me know and I will get in touch with its author.

Indeed, I am also open to anyone wanting to co-work with me on this project and to any suggestion or complaint about pertinent aspects of the game that need still to be addressed.

I rely on your inputs, guys


================================================== ========

EDIT:

this mod is still in its alpha stage. At this moment only few of the aforementioned aspects have been addressed with separate patches that will be merged in the final release of the mod. You can get their latest versions from the following links:

Rongel's Torpedo malfunctions test v 2
download link and realease notes available HERE
NOT COMPATIBLE WITH LATEST TORPEDO FAILURE PATCHES BY TDW

Armaments & equipments patch v 0.2
download link and realease notes available HERE


Thank you for testing!

[Rongel]

Wowzer!

That is a lot of stuff! Like we discussed in the other thread, I'm trying to get the torpedo malfunctions in order, so that can be my input. Currently the autumn looks very busy (and my own internet connection died...) but yep, count me in anyway!

Good luck Gap! This sounds really great! Start it easy that you don't get burnt out in the process!

[Targor Avelany]

Awesome, gap! Looks amazing and interesting.
Does that include fixing the periscope overextention?

Wish I was able to help.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Wowzer!

That is a lot of stuff! Like we discussed in the other thread, I'm trying to get the torpedo malfunctions in order, so that can be my input.

talkig about it: are you going to be able to set different chances depending on malfunction type and date?

Originally Posted by Rongel

Currently the autumn looks very busy (and my own internet connection died...) but yep, count me in anyway!

Torpedo malfunctions is an important aspect whose finetuning deserves the utmost attention and accurate historical data collection. Take your time on it!

Originally Posted by Rongel

Good luck Gap! This sounds really great! Start it easy that you don't get burnt out in the process!

Thank you mate, I will take your wise suggestion in the due account

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Awesome, gap! Looks amazing and interesting.

Thank you too Targor

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Does that include fixing the periscope overextention?

What's exactly the problem with the periscope? Never noticed it

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Wish I was able to help.

You actually are, in many ways!

- you can help me and Rongel by providing us with your suggestions and ideas, based on your gaming experience;
- you can get involved in data research, something that will be never enough!
- you can volunteer for beta testing, a boring task that I never really got accustomed to;
- if you have enough time, you can just pick one of the points listed in the first post that you would like to develop, and ask me for headups on where to start from for working on it. I will do my best for giving you the basics, but take in mind that I miself am in the low part of my learning curve.

[gap]

A practical question:

what would you expect to be a realistic traverse and elevation speed for manually operated flak and deck guns? Should this speed be slower for twin/quad mountings than for single guns, due to the increased weight?

Those speeds will greatly affect the effectiveness of U-boat guns. Too bad, while there's a lot of information on power driven guns, I couldn't find any reference to manully trained/elevated guns on the web. Nevertheless I am sure that some naval history expert around here ( Sailor Steve are you there? ) will be able to provide a reasonable extimation.

[vlad29]

Hi Gap, some info re. Your 1st post
I'm using the mod list which contains NewUI, Harbour addition, OHII, mtns (+fix), and this combination is not compatible by now with such popular mods as AI Sub Crew, Sub Exsaust, Sub Flags (with the first two it is 100% true). Uekel in his "Shleightfehrt'-mod "forced to coexist" AI Sub Crew and "mtns", but his mega-mod is for CSP Magui interface mostly (problem with NewUI) .

So this is just for the info and to prevent You from possible problems in your venture.

[gap]

Bump:

Originally Posted by gap

A practical question:

what would you expect to be a realistic traverse and elevation speed for manually operated flak and deck guns? Should this speed be slower for twin/quad mountings than for single guns, due to the increased weight?

Those speeds will greatly affect the effectiveness of U-boat guns. Too bad, while there's a lot of information on power driven guns, I couldn't find any reference to manully trained/elevated guns on the web. Nevertheless I am sure that some naval history expert around here (Sailor Steve are you there? ) will be able to provide a reasonable extimation.

Any answer?

Currently we can fully rotate our flaks by 360 deg orizontally and 180 deg vertically in just one second. Is this okay for you guys?

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

What's exactly the problem with the periscope? Never noticed it

The periscopes (both obs and attack) used to be overextending (able to rise wwaaaaay too high). This is one of the things that REM's mod was fixing.

I haven't had a chance to check before I posted (still trying to figure out my CTD at approaching Keil fun and I was away entire weekend), but it might have been fixed in one of the mods that I have installed (primarely sober's list).

On the rest - after I fully move to the new computer and figure out the above mentioned problem, I'll definately help as much as I can

[gap]

Originally Posted by vlad29

Hi Gap, some info re. Your 1st post
I'm using the mod list which contains NewUI, Harbour addition, OHII, mtns (+fix), and this combination is not compatible by now with such popular mods as AI Sub Crew, Sub Exsaust, Sub Flags (with the first two it is 100% true). Uekel in his "Shleightfehrt'-mod "forced to coexist" AI Sub Crew and "mtns", but his mega-mod is for CSP Magui interface mostly (problem with NewUI) .

So this is just for the info and to prevent You from possible problems in your venture.

Thank you Vlad, I'll dig in those mods, and see why they are not copatible with each other. Anyway I am 99% sure that with some patience they can be merged together

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

The periscopes (both obs and attack) used to be overextending (able to rise wwaaaaay too high). This is one of the things that REM's mod was fixing.

I haven't had a chance to check before I posted (still trying to figure out my CTD at approaching Keil fun and I was away entire weekend), but it might have been fixed in one of the mods that I have installed (primarely sober's list).

On the rest - after I fully move to the new computer and figure out the above mentioned problem, I'll definately help as much as I can

Hi again Targor,

do you mean that persicopes are graphically extending over their housings or rather that they are way to long if compared with historical lenghts?

While I haven't ever heard of periscopes protruding from the sub for more than their actual lenght, the latter issue is a known vanilla inaccuracy that was fixed by U-boat historical specifications, back in the days. Though not being sure about it, I think this mod is now included in some of TDW's mods, and it is anyway not compatible with some more recent mods.

Another mod dealing with periscope lenghts, as remarked by you, is indeed REM. Why don't you use it?

[Rongel]

Originally Posted by gap

talkig about it: are you going to be able to set different chances depending on malfunction type and date?

Yes, there are options for early war and later. As far as I know it they work OK. Values work also for different malfunction types (duds, premature explosion, circle runners, depth keeping, and angle troubles). One thing that doesn't seem to work is the different dud rates at a different angles. There is three angle settings defined but one of them seems to be broken. For example, angles through 90-60 and 30-0 work but the middle one 60-30 has problems. But I think we can get somekind of working compromise with that.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Rongel

Yes, there are options for early war and later. As far as I know it they work OK. Values work also for different malfunction types (duds, premature explosion, circle runners, depth keeping, and angle troubles).

Cool!

Originally Posted by Rongel

One thing that doesn't seem to work is the different dud rates at a different angles. There is three angle settings defined but one of them seems to be broken. For example, angles through 90-60 and 30-0 work but the middle one 60-30 has problems. But I think we can get somekind of working compromise with that.

Wasn't the angle of inpact a factor taken into account by TDW's dud torpedo patch, for calculating the chance of missed detonations?

We should ask him when he will be back from his business trip.

[Sepp von Ch.]

Looking forward gap.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Josef von Posorschitz

Looking forward gap.

here it is: gap - armaments & equipments patch

This patch should:

• add 3 new types of shell to game: 11" AP, 11" HE and 11" AA; the new shells were given intermediate settings between their homologue of 8 and 14 inches of caliber;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 28 cm (11") SK C/34 guns mounted on Scharnhorst and Deutschland pocket battleships, that in stock game were set to use an "unknown" type of shell; the wrong shells are now replaced with the new 11" AP and HE shells;
  
  
• replace the 14" AP and HE shells so far fired by the 28 cm (11") SK L/40 guns (Deutschland class battleships), with more appropriate 11" shells;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 10.5 cm (4.1") SK C/33 gun, mounted on many German capital ships and cruisers, that was missing its muzzle flash effect.

The patch includes as well my 'undestructible searchlights fix'. Follow this link for further details:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197680

[Sepp von Ch.]

Originally Posted by gap

here it is: gap - armaments & equipments patch

This patch should:

• add 3 new types of shell to game: 11" AP, 11" HE and 11" AA; the new shells were given intermediate settings between their homologue of 8 and 14 inches of caliber;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 28 cm (11") SK C/34 guns mounted on Scharnhorst and Deutschland pocket battleships, that in stock game were set to use an "unknown" type of shell; the wrong shells are now replaced with the new 11" AP and HE shells;
  
  
• replace the 14" AP and HE shells so far fired by the 28 cm (11") SK L/40 guns (Deutschland class battleships), with more appropriate 11" shells;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 10.5 cm (4.1") SK C/33 gun, mounted on many German capital ships and cruisers, that was missing its muzzle flash effect.

The patch includes as well my 'undestructible searchlights fix'. Follow this link for further details:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197680

Thank you VERY much gap! I'll try it now!

[gap]

Originally Posted by Josef von Posorschitz

Thank you VERY much gap! I'll try it now!

Thank you to Josef, let me know