Sonarman not automatically detecting sounds

[Gibus]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I will point out, no one has released a later historical campaign mod.

Bonjour,

Yet though. And it is in French only. And it is here: http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/i...s&showfile=531

Man sonar hears everything, including the cries of dolphins.

[CaptainRamius]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I forgive you.

Thanks

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, I've been on the anti-RSRDC bus since the mod came out. But it has nothing to do with reporting or not reporting sounds. I've used RSRDC with TMO, stock and GFO. It has no influence on sonar reports at all.

However, calling RSRDC a "historical" mod is just silly. War is a dynamic thing and to experience it authentically, it must be a dynamic, not strictly scripted thing. RSRDC puts the Japanese in a straitjacket.

Let's say that during the war convoys went past a certain point for a period of time. If, in the real war, you showed up with a submarine and blasted some merchies, they would re-route the convoy.

But in RSRDC it's like a shooting gallery where the little ducky just oscillates back and forth, back and forth. You just point your gun at the endpoint of the travel, time the shots and go ping! ping! ping! The ducky is oblivious and so is the Japanese navy in RSRDC.

Also RSRDC assumes knowledge that the US Navy didn't have, the exact nature of the Japanese shipping routes during the war. And if you think Japanese records are the gold standard of knowing the movement of every Japanese ship during the war, reflect that they were bombed into the stone age, both conventionally and with nuclear weapons. How many records were destroyed? How many records, in the heat of the moment, were "reconstructed" afterward or just never written down at all. Pretending to be able to reconstruct every Japanese ship movement of the war is just silly, even if it were appropriate, which it is not appropriate.

The real experience was random, just like the stock game. You can quibble with the nature of the groups of ships encountered, but you have to give the game devs a huge attaboy in realizing that sub captains went where ordered, productive or not. Boats under Lockwood had greater freedom of action than those under Christie. If, under Christie, you were frustrated and decided to sashay over to a choke point you thought might be more productive you'd find yourself sashaying to a ground pounding job upon your return.

The brass didn't have a chart of the Japanese shipping lanes like we have and those lanes were not static. They moved about as circumstances dictated. The Japanese didn't force shipping by a submarine just because some script told them to. They moved the shipping to avoid.

With RSRDC you just game the system, enjoying an absolute god-mode mastery of never being surprised, always heading where the action will be knowing the enemy is blind, deaf and dumb. I can assure you the Japanese were not blind, deaf and dumb. It is RSRDC that is blind, deaf and dumb.

For game playing authenticity, the stock game beats RSRDC in just about every way. Calling RSRDC a "historical" campaign mod is a grave disservice to the very concept of a dynamic campaign game.

That's only half of my criticism of RSRDC. The other half is more severe, because the RSRDC historical campaign mod is neither historical, nor is it just a campaign mod. It is also an anti-GFO, anti-RFB and anti-TMO mod.

[Barkerov]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The brass didn't have a chart of the Japanese shipping lanes like we have and those lanes were not static. They moved about as circumstances dictated. The Japanese didn't force shipping by a submarine just because some script told them to. They moved the shipping to avoid.

With RSRDC you just game the system, enjoying an absolute god-mode mastery of never being surprised, always heading where the action will be knowing the enemy is blind, deaf and dumb. I can assure you the Japanese were not blind, deaf and dumb. It is RSRDC that is blind, deaf and dumb.

For game playing authenticity, the stock game beats RSRDC in just about every way. Calling RSRDC a "historical" campaign mod is a grave disservice to the very concept of a dynamic campaign game.

That's only half of my criticism of RSRDC. The other half is more severe, because the RSRDC historical campaign mod is neither historical, nor is it just a campaign mod. It is also an anti-GFO, anti-RFB and anti-TMO mod.

What if you deliberately ignore the charts and don't try to game the system?

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

What if you deliberately ignore the charts and don't try to game the system?

You can game the RSRDC system two or three campaigns. After that you know all about Japanese traffic.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Barkerov]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

You can game the RSRDC system two or three campaigns. After that you know all about Japanese traffic.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

And that's when I will change to another mod!

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by TorpX

[INDENT] Do you mean he really can't hear anything, or that he doesn't hear well?

Many complain that their soundman is 'deaf', but it turns out he hears as well as he should (not too well).

The US sound gear, in the early part of the war could not reliably detect ships beyond maybe 7,000 yds. Since you can normally see much farther than this, you might think something's wrong. People who are used to SH3, where their German gear can pick up Allied convoys from over the horizon, think this is a bug, but it is not.

Also, you should note, the game only uses one sensor at a time. If you are looking at a ship through the scope, your sound man will not report it. AFAIK, mods can't fix this.

These sound issues are old, and well known. They really have nothing to do with anyone's mods. They are a consequence of the games simplistic sound/sensor mechanics.

I will just describe this situation: being at 50 feet, deep 0kn and enemy no more than 5000yd and still doesn't report any contact, unless i manually find him with the hydrophone (very very loud sound). Just then the sonarman proceeds with the first contact report like a big troll.

[Barkerov]

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx

I will just describe this situation: being at 50 feet, deep 0kn and enemy no more than 5000yd and still doesn't report any contact, unless i manually find him with the hydrophone (very very loud sound). Just then the sonarman proceeds with the first contact report like a big troll.

I am not convinced its a bug. What is the surface weather like? More importantly what happens as you get closer?

also after you get him to call out the contact can he follow it?

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

I am not convinced its a bug. What is the surface weather like? More importantly what happens as you get closer?

also after you get him to call out the contact can he follow it?

-clear sky
-nothing until very close
-yes, by then it follows him

[xXNightEagleXx]

Ok, i've just reinstalled everything and applied only rfb 2.0 + patch.....it seems to work properly now.

In order to avoid any wrong interpretation, how the AI hydrophone works in rfb 2.0, what is its limit?


UPDATE: definitely it is working better now, just for information i was struggling to get the contact detection even on the tutorial attack torpedo.

[Barkerov]

If I do the listening I have found I can hear (by hear I mean see a green light) ships up to 20nm.

If the sonarman does the listening I am not exactly sure what the distance is.
It will depend on his sensor skill though.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx

I will just describe this situation: being at 50 feet, deep 0kn and enemy no more than 5000yd and still doesn't report any contact, unless i manually find him with the hydrophone (very very loud sound). Just then the sonarman proceeds with the first contact report like a big troll.

I won't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the game here, but know that the games sound mechanics are poor. Personally, I stopped expecting much in this department when I noticed I could hear ships on the other side of an island.

You didn't say whether your scope was up or not.

As I said before, the game is hard-wired to use only one sensor at a time. I get very few sound contacts, since I am patrolling with my periscope up. The game uses the best sensor to determine detection, and that is the scope, usually. I could lower my scope and get more sound contacts, but it would hardly be worth it. The one sensor mechanic applies to both us and them, btw.

In the past, some of the ships seemed to be missing sounds, so would cause crashes, but I believe most of these problems have been fixed.

My point is that this sort of thing is very unlikely to be due to TMO, RFB, or any other mod. The game is flawed in many areas, and this is one of them.





About being able to hear ships up to 20nm, that is another game flaw. The normal (crew) sound detections are not synced to what you can hear. It is a flaw; you should not really be able to hear that well, it is unrealistic.

[Barkerov]

Originally Posted by TorpX

About being able to hear ships up to 20nm, that is another game flaw. The normal (crew) sound detections are not synced to what you can hear. It is a flaw; you should not really be able to hear that well, it is unrealistic.

Is there a way to change it to a more realistic value?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

Is there a way to change it to a more realistic value?

I doubt it.

The crew detection ranges can, and have been, changed to realistic values (at least in RFB), but the ranges at which we hear are always at the high end. You see your sub's crew gets better as their equipment improves, but what we hear is always at the best level; it doesn't change. That is how it was explained to me.

If it was possible to correct, someone would have done it by now.

I would say just don't do manual hydrophone sweeps, until after your crew detects something.

I believe the RFB team was well aware of the issue, but lacked any means to fix it. I imagine Ducimus (of TMO fame) knew about it just as well.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I doubt it.

The crew detection ranges can, and have been, changed to realistic values (at least in RFB), but the ranges at which we hear are always at the high end. You see your sub's crew gets better as their equipment improves, but what we hear is always at the best level; it doesn't change. That is how it was explained to me.

If it was possible to correct, someone would have done it by now.

I would say just don't do manual hydrophone sweeps, until after your crew detects something.

I believe the RFB team was well aware of the issue, but lacked any means to fix it. I imagine Ducimus (of TMO fame) knew about it just as well.

My negative feedback was due to two thing:

1 There was really a bug but it solved as i reinstalled just some mods (specially with TMO).
2 After the reinstall, i immediately jumped to RFB full time (practically for the first time). IMO in TMO all sensors work much better both in theory (specs) and in practice. In TMO both me and the AI can hear from a much bigger distance even higher than the sonar spec.