[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

I read in books that the German submariners also attacked ships from 20mm Flak 30! You can in SH5 make destroyed by artillery calculation of the enemy on the merchant ship? I could destroy the resistance of the enemy as in the real events!
Sorry if I write is not in the appropriate topic and for my English!!
With respect Captain73!

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Originally Posted by Captain73

I read in books that the German submariners also attacked ships from 20mm Flak 30! You can in SH5 make destroyed by artillery calculation of the enemy on the merchant ship? I could destroy the resistance of the enemy as in the real events!
Sorry if I write is not in the appropriate topic and for my English!!
With respect Captain73!

Ships sunk by flak gun?
They had to be smal tugboats or sailboats.

Anyway, you can manually aim at ships with the flak, and they may take damage or not, depending on their armor level. What you cannot do is ordering your crew to do the same. This behaviour is probably hardcoded in the exe or scripted somewhere else.

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Bump:

Originally Posted by gap

A practical question:

what would you expect to be a realistic traverse and elevation speed for manually operated flak and deck guns? Should this speed be slower for twin/quad mountings than for single guns, due to the increased weight?

Those speeds will greatly affect the effectiveness of U-boat guns. Too bad, while there's a lot of information on power driven guns, I couldn't find any reference to manully trained/elevated guns on the web. Nevertheless I am sure that some naval history expert around here (Sailor Steve are you there? ) will be able to provide a reasonable extimation.

Any answer?

Currently we can fully rotate our flaks by 360 deg orizontally and 180 deg vertically in just one second. Is this okay for you guys?

Originally Posted by gap

Ships sunk by flak gun?
They had to be smal tugboats or sailboats.

Anyway, you can manually aim at ships with the flak, and they may take damage or not, depending on their armor level. What you cannot do is ordering your crew to do the same. This behaviour is probably hardcoded in the exe or scripted somewhere else.

You did not understand me! I'm talking about the destruction of the resistance of the commercial courts! The destruction of guns on merchant ships of the enemy!

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Originally Posted by Captain73

You did not understand me! I'm talking about the destruction of the resistance of the commercial courts! The destruction of the guns! The destruction of gun fire on the boat with the merchant ships of the enemy!

In other words you are asking if enemy ship's AA guns can be destroyed? If so, the answer is yes, they can.

Even DP guns and big cannons on battleships can be theoretically destroyed though, due to their thicker armor, doing it can take many lucky shots of armor pierceng rounds.

The only equipments that couldn't be detroyed in vanilla game were the searchlights and a couple of guns (cannot remember wich ones exactly right now), but this flaw is now fixed. See this thread

Originally Posted by gap

In other words you are asking if enemy ship's AA guns can be destroyed? If so, the answer is yes, they can.

Even DP guns and big cannons on battleships can be theoretically destroyed though, due to their thicker armor, doing it can take many lucky shots of armor pierceng rounds.

The only equipments that couldn't be detroyed in vanilla game were the searchlights and a couple of guns (cannot remember wich ones exactly right now), but this flaw is now fixed. See this thread

Thanks Gap!
All right! Sorry that I missed this information!

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Originally Posted by Captain73

Thanks Gap!
All right! Sorry that I missed this information!

Better asking than remaining in doubt

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Nice experiment, V13dweller, can you please upload somewhere your mission and post here the link?

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I was experimenting with the Mission editor again, and I have found that the Scharnhorst and Deutschland Pocket battleships main guns actually don't fire
They track the targets, but they don't fire, the ship only uses it's secondary weapons, like the smaller single barrel cannons.

good finding

both the Scharnhorst and the Deutschland do use 28 cm/54.5 (11") SK C/34 triple guns as main battery. Unlike other guns, they are equipped with an 'unknown' type of shells, i.e. a shell type not listed in Shells.dat. Evidently a blunder by devs, but it won't be difficult fixing it. I will post a fix here as soon as possible

Originally Posted by V13dweller

It's quite strange, I put all of the German battleships in a line, and some British battleships in a line, the Germans won, after a long battle, the Schleswig-Holstien seemed to have been attacked the least, and made most of the kills (Strange for a per-dreadnaught)
The Bismarck charged in and make short work of the destroyer screen guarding the battleships, took some damage but came out alive.

Yes, I am not surprised of that: SH5 weapons/armors system requires a general rebalance

Originally Posted by V13dweller

If you want the statistics of battle, the British had HMS Suffolk, Hood, Barham and Ark royal. 3 Kent heavy cruisers, 2 A class destroyers, 4 flower corvettes, and 2 Black swan sloop's. The Germans had KM Tirpitz, KM Scharnhorst, KM Deutschland, KM Konigsberg KM Koln 4 type 34 destroyers AMC Penguin AMC Komet and KM Emden.
What a battle it was.

I can imagine

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I did my best to make it as fair as possible, because the pocket battleships don't use their main guns.

Also the Auxiliary cruisers did not maneuver to attack the enemy
They just did that zig-zag course non-destroyers do when enemies are nearby.

That's correct. In real life auxiliary cruisers wouldn't have standed a chance against the big pieces of the British Navy. What was left to them is to run away as fast as they could

[Sepp von Ch.]

Looking forward gap.

[V13dweller]

I have also noticed, that the AI seems to prioritize what it aims for, for example, I had the Bismarck, the Scharnhorst, and the Schleswig-Holstien and the Deutschland battleships lined up against some battleships of the British, and while the Bismarck (As we know has a lot of armour and health) was taking all the hits while the old Schleswig-Holstien was using it's powerful 28cm SK L/40's to take out the enemy battleships at a distance.

Also, do ships have limited ammunition, and can they guns get 'destroyed' as in, not functional?
Because in my mission, the Konigsberg light cruiser got it's 3 round salvo right near the turret on a Hood Battle cruiser, an explosion occurred, and the front turrets seemed to stop tracking, while the rear cannons are still spitting out 15 inch'ers at a faster than life speed. (Real speed being 2 rounds per minute)

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I have also noticed, that the AI seems to prioritize what it aims for, for example, I had the Bismarck, the Scharnhorst, and the Schleswig-Holstien and the Deutschland battleships lined up against some battleships of the British, and while the Bismarck (As we know has a lot of armour and health) was taking all the hits while the old Schleswig-Holstien was using it's powerful 28cm SK L/40's to take out the enemy battleships at a distance.

Seems to me the plot of Sink the Bismarck!
Have you read this book or watched the movie that was based on it?

Out of jokes, AI strategies are outside my reach. You should ask TDW on it, when he will be back. By the way, did you have IRAI enabled when you carried out your test?

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Also, do ships have limited ammunition, and can they guns get 'destroyed' as in, not functional?

Yes ammunition outfits are limited and fully configurable from guns_radars_01.sim => ammo_storage, and guns can be destroyed (if not, let me know and I will try and see to fix any idestructible gun).

Also notice that shell counters are reset once an unit gets outside visual range. In other words, any unit get an automatic refit if it gets temporarily outside your world

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Because in my mission, the Konigsberg light cruiser got it's 3 round salvo right near the turret on a Hood Battle cruiser, an explosion occurred, and the front turrets seemed to stop tracking, while the rear cannons are still spitting out 15 inch'ers at a faster than life speed. (Real speed being 2 rounds per minute)

Yes, more realistic rates of fire are something I want to attain with my upcoming mod. I see you are well-versed in warhips and their armaments. If you like it, I'll send you a spreadsheet I've created with all the information I was able to collect from the web and from the game, for you to check its data

[V13dweller]

Originally Posted by gap

Seems to me the plot of Sink the Bismarck!
Have you read this book or watched the movie that was based on it?

Out of jokes, AI strategies are outside my reach. You should ask TDW on it, when he will be back. By the way, did you have IRAI enabled when you carried out your test?

No, not at that time, I as the player was not actually taking part, I was just using external camera, usually when im at periscope depth im rammed by a friendly ship or hit by a rogue 15 inch'er , plus there is an army if Corvettes a Sloops and Destroyers.

Yes ammunition outfits are limited and fully configurable from guns_radars_01.sim => ammo_storage, and guns can be destroyed (if not, let me know and I will try and see to fix any idestructible gun).

Because in this situation, the Bismarck seemed to have caused a massive explosion on the deck of the Hood, and after that the front guns were no longer tracking the enemy, but the rear guns were still trying to, so they ship pulled to it's side so it's secondary weapons could do their work.
Also when it come to the AI stratergy, they seem to want to sink the most valuable ship first, the Germans seem to make the Ark Royal Swiss cheese before attacking the Hood who is trying to sink the Bismarck, (Good thing the ark Royal goes down so quick)
Another statement along the lines of strategy, the Carl Peters Fleet Tender, (I put there because I was convinced it was a warship until a closer inspection ) charges in and seems to not be attacked, and makes quite alot of damage because the other ships are after the Bismarck or Scharnhorst.
More important info, I just found out that the 'Admiral Hipper' is the same as the Scharnhorst, it doesn't use it's main guns.
I found this when I was comparing heavy cruisers, the Kent beat the Hipper, because the Hipper would not use it's main guns, "Scandal, Corruption!" I will call a re-match if that problem gets fixed.

Off topic a bit, do you have any idea what the LSMFPD ship is? I spawned one in the editor, and it was this tiny little rectangular motor boat that is unarmed, I am not sure what it is, if anyone could clarify, that would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by V13dweller

Because in this situation, the Bismarck seemed to have caused a massive explosion on the deck of the Hood, and after that the front guns were no longer tracking the enemy...

This s okay: your test proves that big guns are taking damage, as supposed

Originally Posted by V13dweller

...but the rear guns were still trying to, so they ship pulled to it's side so it's secondary weapons could do their work.

So ships change their tactic depending on the guns they have available. Cool, but you didn't answer my question: are you using IRAI during your tests?

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Also when it come to the AI stratergy, they seem to want to sink the most valuable ship first, the Germans seem to make the Ark Royal Swiss cheese before attacking the Hood who is trying to sink the Bismarck, (Good thing the ark Royal goes down so quick)
Another statement along the lines of strategy, the Carl Peters Fleet Tender, (I put there because I was convinced it was a warship until a closer inspection ) charges in and seems to not be attacked, and makes quite alot of damage because the other ships are after the Bismarck or Scharnhorst.

Okay, maybe I am not the best strategist around, but leaving out the "Carl Peters accident", AI strategy makes sense to me

Originally Posted by V13dweller

More important info, I just found out that the 'Admiral Hipper' is the same as the Scharnhorst, it doesn't use it's main guns.
I found this when I was comparing heavy cruisers, the Kent beat the Hipper, because the Hipper would not use it's main guns, "Scandal, Corruption!" I will call a re-match if that problem gets fixed.

After having a look at her main gun's settings, I am quite sure that the Admiral Hipper was returning fire, but you couldn't notice it: those 4.1" german guns are missing their muzzle flash effect. Another oversight by devs that I hope to fix with the upcoming patch

Originally Posted by V13dweller

Off topic a bit, do you have any idea what the LSMFPD ship is? I spawned one in the editor, and it was this tiny little rectangular motor boat that is unarmed, I am not sure what it is, if anyone could clarify, that would be helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinef%C3%A4hrprahm
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmari...mfp/index.html

Originally Posted by V13dweller

the Konigsberg light cruiser got it's 3 round salvo right near the turret on a Hood Battle cruiser, an explosion occurred, and the front turrets seemed to stop tracking, while the rear cannons are still spitting out 15 inch'ers at a faster than life speed. (Real speed being 2 rounds per minute).

The above remark by you prompted me to check Hood's main guns. Are you sure that it was firing at such an high rate?

Reload time of 15" Mk. I guns, fitted aboard the Hood, is set to 30 sec. This figure should be consistent with the expected rate of fire of ca. 2 rounds per min per muzzle

What crew ranking was the Hood given in your mission? Can you post that mission?

[V13dweller]

I was not using IRAI, and the mission is hardy complete, it has no objectoves, it is just two lines of opposing faction ships set to charge at each other, and all the ships were set to the default "Veteran" except the Auxiliary cruisers, they were set to elite, I was expecting a different response from them if i changed the difficulty, and I do not know how to upload a mission.
And thanks for the info on the landing craft.
I can not be sure on the fire speed from the Hood I was focused on the Konigsberg at that time, and to the distance I saw multiple explosions coming from the guns, but for all i know, that could have been one gun firing slower maybe? I will look into that later, as with the Hipper.

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Originally Posted by V13dweller

I was not using IRAI...

You should

Originally Posted by V13dweller

...and the mission is hardy complete, it has no objectoves, it is just two lines of opposing faction ships set to charge at each other...

Your mission is more than we need for testing purposes. I could create one myself, but I want to make sure that we are talking about the same stuff

Originally Posted by V13dweller

and all the ships were set to the default "Veteran" except the Auxiliary cruisers, they were set to elite, I was expecting a different response from them if i changed the difficulty...

Can you make me a favour? You should disable your mission, open its misge file in notepad, and downgrade Hood's crew ranking (look for the CrewRating setting within Hood's section). After doing so, reenable the mission, load it and check if the rate of fire of her guns is affected by your changes

Originally Posted by V13dweller

and I do not know how to upload a mission.

https://www.rapidshare.com/